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Welcome to the Youth Ministry 
Mindset podcast season 2 with 

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voices from Alpha and Y Disciple
Out of Net Ministries. 

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My name is Jordan and I'm here 
with my friends. 

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Jason Kidd. 
Annie Grendel. 

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And we're talking about 
specifically confirmation, 

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moving the space of confirmation
from a transactional approach to

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a transformational approach. 
And this episode's title is 

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Content Still Isn't King, which 
is a direct call back to what we

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did a couple years ago. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

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And we had a episode titles that
said Content isn't King. 

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Can you just remind us a little 
bit what we talked about, why we

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talked about back then and then 
where we're going this time? 

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So last season we had an episode
called Content isn't King, and 

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we had a special guest, Jim 
Beckman, who's the founding 

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architect of why disciple and 
generally known as like the Obi 

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Wan Kenobi Catholic Youth 
Ministry. 

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Yes. 
And one of my favorite things he

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said in that episode is while 
content isn't king, it it might 

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be queen. 
And his point was that the 

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deposit of faith that teaching 
true things is vitally 

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important, but we cannot solve 
all the problems about, in this 

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context, confirmation by just 
throwing the best content at it.

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Like that's not going to address
the heart of a lot of the 

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issues. 
And So what we talked about a 

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lot last season was context, the
context of discipleship, of 

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relationships, of a compliment. 
And so we just want to dive in 

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this season into what that looks
like in the confirmation space 

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because really content is the 
thing that you and I, Jordan, 

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bonded over initially when we 
first met. 

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That was the moment, Yeah, go 
ahead. 

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You you relay your version and 
I'll I'll sprinkle in mind. 

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Great. 
So we've been, we were called on

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as content providers. 
Neither of us had met to put 

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together a content bundle. 
It was in the middle of COVID 

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and Jordan and I were the two 
people on the call. 

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So we were the people who were 
called in as content providers. 

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Why Disciple and Alpha And we 
were the ones on the call saying

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content isn't the answer We. 
Actually literally we actually 

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literally said out loud multiple
times contents not the answer 

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for the season like. 
It's not. 

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And we looked at each other and 
said, did we just become best 

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friends? 
No, I looked at you. 

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I was like, oh man, I like her. 
Like what she's doing. 

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She's saying something that is 
actually she sees something that

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I see. 
And then your daughter came on 

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screen in the background with a 
blue marker and used your zoom 

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screen as a way to like draw on 
herself and Big Blue marker and 

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she painted her. 
Whole body. 

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Yeah, And you knew what was 
happening and you saw it in the 

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screen and you unfazed. 
And I was like, this girl's 

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awesome. 
This is. 

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She was taking advantage of me 
being on a work call. 

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She was four. 
And she was like, you know, if 

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mom's on this call, she, she 
can't stop me. 

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And so was like off to the side 
outside using my computer as a 

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mirror and painted her entire 
body blue. 

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And that's Marjorie for you. 
Like that really sums her up. 

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Smurfs, that was the best, OK. 
But from that we launched this 

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Youth Mission Mindset podcast. 
You just kind of went over what 

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we talked about a little bit and
that was during a season of 

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massive reorientation, youth 
world, post COVID reality. 

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And it was good. 
Like a lot of the churches found

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that really helpful. 
And it's actually still getting 

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a lot of airplay right now, 
which is people are finding it 

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helpful to lay down some better 
foundations. 

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But there was a common question 
we got all the time is like, OK,

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but what is alpha? 
And what is why disciple? 

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Like we never actually would 
talk about alpha or talk about 

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disciple we actually like, no, 
here's things we need to press 

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into. 
So Jason, what is Alpha? 

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Yeah, Alpha is a a ministry that
helps the church make space for 

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people who don't go to church. 
Or maybe they go to church 

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occasionally and to really 
process the life's biggest 

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questions about life and faith 
and purpose. 

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And so, you know, in Catholics 
speak, it's kind of the inquiry 

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phase or kind of pre 
evangelization and the 

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proclamation of the gospel. 
So at Alpha, people are invited 

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to a a space that's very 
hospitable for a great meal. 

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Then they hear and discuss like 
some of the the most common 

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questions around Christianity. 
And they hear the the church's 

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perspective on things like who 
is God, who is Jesus, what is 

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prayer, who is the Holy Spirit? 
And then the majority of the 

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time is in the in a small group 
where a host doesn't teach 

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again, but rather fosters 
conversation, looking at these 

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questions where people can start
to to process and chew on what 

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they've heard and and say what 
they believe. 

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Yeah. 
And we're seeing it run in 

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schools and youth ministers. 
We're actually seeing people run

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in confirmation, which is kind 
of sparked this kind of like, we

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should just talk about this. 
Yeah. 

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And and we're seeing amazing, 
like hearing amazing stories. 

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And Jesus is showing up in 
really beautiful and profound 

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ways. 
Some of my favorite stories are 

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actually coming from the 
Catholic space right now with 

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Alpha youth. 
So. 

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OK, that's Alpha Youth or Alpha 
and Annie. 

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Like what is Y disciple? 
1st, I want to give a little 

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love to Alpha because my husband
and I, just before we met, so in

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2019, our parish was offering 
the Alpha course and we thought,

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you know what, we've heard so 
much about this thing, let's 

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just go through it as 
participants. 

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And when you're in seats like we
are, we very rarely get to 

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participate in a thing without 
getting pulled into leadership 

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somehow. 
That's real life for. 

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Sure. 
And so we just went through it 

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to be intentional and go through
it. 

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We weren't trying to observe. 
And it was transformational for 

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our own personal spiritual 
lives, for our marriage. 

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It it changed so much for us. 
And it was because we just went 

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back to the Gospel. 
Pope Francis talks about it like

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how we talk about the Gospel, 
the karigma as primary, not 

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because it's the first thing you
do and then you move on from, 

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but you come back to it over and
over again. 

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And so for us to go through that
was such a profound experience 

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to go back to the Gospel. 
So I'm I'm a huge fan of alpha. 

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Why disciple comes out of net 
ministries now and what we do is

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we create a digital toolbox for 
adults to do small group 

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discipleship for with teenagers 
in the Catholic space. 

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And so that digital toolbox 
includes training for adults, 

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both the ministry leader as well
as the adult mentors who are 

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walking with teenagers and 
content for them to share in 

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their small groups for them to 
look at. 

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What does it mean to be a 
disciple of, of Jesus Christ? 

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And we're really intentional 
with calling it a toolbox 

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because because there is no such
thing as a discipleship program,

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it doesn't matter how good our 
content is, how? 

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And we put a lot of energy in to
it being high quality content 

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and heresy free. 
Hooray. 

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But if the flesh and blood 
adults in the room with 

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teenagers don't know how to 
engage the real teenagers in 

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front of them, it's all going to
fall flat. 

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So we want to put tools in the 
hands of mature disciples to 

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accompany Catholic teenagers in 
a small group setting. 

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And this is that cultural 
reality that we both share 

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between Alpha and Y disciple. 
That was like, oh, we can do 

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this together. 
And we've been figuring out 

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collaboration, Kingdom 
collaboration together for a 

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couple years. 
So all right. 

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But in this episode, we're 
talking confirmation. 

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We're saying the content still 
isn't king. 

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And Jason, could you just give 
us a really quick summary? 

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We. 
Talked about and let's introduce

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our guest. 
Yeah, well, we're, we're stoked 

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to have Edmund Mitchell, who is 
truly one of the, the thought 

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leaders around youth ministry, 
especially post COVID. 

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And, and so we're we're talking 
about, yes, there's content and 

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that's an that's a piece of the 
pie and it's an important piece 

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of the pie. 
It is not king, though, and 

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we're going to dive in a little 
bit into the the context of Gen.

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Z and in youth ministry 
specifically in, in, in 

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confirmation preparation. 
So Edmund has got podcasts. 

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He's he's been involved in some 
amazing projects. 

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We are. 
We are so happy to have you, 

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Edmund. 
Yeah, it's really great to be 

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here. 
All the ministries present, I 

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really like some of my favorite,
so I'm really honored to be on. 

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Oh, that's kind of you, man. 
Well, we're just grateful you're

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here. 
So, Edmund, we're starting all 

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of our conversations with our 
guests with one simple fun 

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question. 
We're talking about confirmation

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this season. 
Who was your confirmation saying

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and why did you choose them? 
Yeah, my confirmation saying I 

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got confirmed in 8th grade. 
I picked Saint Michael the 

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Archangel because he had a sword
in the photo. 

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And he's an Archangel. 
I mean, why would you not? 

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So what drew you to the sword? 
I don't know, just hacking 

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stuff, Testosterone, being a 
man, I, I don't know. 

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It's a great boy. 
It's the it's. 

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The 8th great boy, it's like you
just walk around hitting 

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something, but but but that's 
what you do is the 8th great boy

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that's. 
Great. 

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Tell us, tell us a little about 
your experience in ministry. 

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You know, I know you've, you've 
been around in different spaces,

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but get tell us some of that 
story. 

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Yeah, so I'm a, I'm a recovering
super Catholic. 

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I mean, I was cradle Catholic 
and raised my whole life and you

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know, one of those classic first
born like do everything right, 

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try to get straight A's. 
And I went to Georgia Tech for 

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college because I just wanted to
be rich and people to think I 

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was smart. 
And so that was like the best 

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school I could get into and then
had an experience with a campus 

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ministry there. 
Well, actually there there 

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wasn't much of one got involved 
there in trying to start one 

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with other people and slowly 
started discerning a call to a 

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different career path. 
And I was really into Scott Hahn

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books and I saw that he taught 
in the in the back of one of his

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books that said he taught at 
Franciscan University. 

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So I called the admissions 
office and I said, I think I 

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want to be Scott Hahn. 
And the guy on the other end 

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laughed and he said, I don't 
think that's a career path. 

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And I said, OK, well, I'm not 
satisfied being a volunteer. 

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Like there's something that 
doesn't sit right with me about 

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just volunteering my time. 
I want to be really involved in 

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evangelization. 
And he told me about, I love the

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conversation I was listening to 
before I came on because he 

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talked about this word 
catechesis. 

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And I thought, you know, I'm 
going to go to Scott Hahnpath. 

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I'm going to be a Bible scholar.
And when this person described 

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catechesis, my heart just, like,
kind of caught on fire. 

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I was like, oh, that's what I 
want to do. 

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Like, I want to take God's 
message and bring it to people. 

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So flash forward to, you know, 
10 years of parish ministry. 

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And, yeah, I love it. 
I think it's a unique calling 

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for me. 
And I still consider myself a 

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parish minister and coach parish
ministers. 

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But yeah. 
So I guess the short answer to 

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your question is my experience 
was good. 

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That's awesome. 
OK, real fast. 

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Can you unpack super Catholic? 
Yeah, cuz like I mean you said 

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that and I was like recovering I
or no? 

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Well, he said recovering super 
Catholic. 

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Yeah. 
So yeah. 

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Yeah. 
So I mean, I, in high school, I 

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dated a very sweet Protestant 
girl and she was very involved 

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in her faith. 
And I, I was, I was pretty 

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involved too, but just as a 
subject that I could know stuff 

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about to get favor from adults, 
you know, and, but one day Jeff 

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Cavans actually came to our, our
parish and put on the great 

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adventure Bible timeline. 
And I love frameworks or big 

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picture. 
I mean, ADHD, you want shortcuts

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and to have like a big picture 
of the Bible was really powerful

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for me. 
But also seeing someone that 

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wasn't a priest. 
I love priests, but seeing 

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someone that wasn't a priest 
that had devoted his life to 

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this was really powerful. 
So my dad handed me Rome Sweet 

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Home. 
They were selling Scott Hahn 

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books. 
I guess Jeff Cavans was making 

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money off of Scott Hahn and gave
me Rome Sweet Home to give to my

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girlfriend to make her Catholic.
Well, I read almost the whole 

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thing in the parking lot and I 
just became obsessed. 

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And so I'm reading all of these 
books. 

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And so if people are listening 
who can relate to this, it's 

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like you're listening to 
everything Father Mike Schmitz 

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puts out. 
You've read every Scott Hahn 

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book like you've, you're, you 
know, if you look at all the 

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YouTube channels you're 
subscribed to, like it's just 

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all the Catholic stuff. 
But then when I got out into the

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world, when I became a, a real 
adult, like graduated from 

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college, went out into the 
world, I realized that 

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everything I was consuming and 
most of my time was spent to 

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bring up the content 
conversation. 

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Most I'd reached this point 
where most of it I would go to 

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other people to encounter the 
gospel or to encounter Jesus. 

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And so I'm hearing how Scott 
Hahn has been transformed 

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personally by the content of the
deposit of Faiths teaching on 

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the Trinity. 
And then he, he incarnates it 

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himself and it turns to this 
message, becomes like a prophet 

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of God's message. 
And then I'm impacted by it. 

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But I'm not quoting church 
teaching, I'm quoting Scott 

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Hahn. 
I'm like, you know, like Scott 

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Hahn says, you know, God is a 
Trinity of persons. 

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And so I, it bothered me and I, 
I realized I needed to go back 

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to the sources I had my own like
resource Mon. 

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And I started reading about the 
catechism instead of reading it.

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I started reading about it and 
realize, like, why are more 

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people not talking about this? 
This isn't just an intellectual 

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thing. 
This is one of the, the most 

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important gifts of the last 
couple centuries since the 

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1500s. 
And it's deeply evangelistic. 

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And I hadn't understood the 
connection. 

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I hadn't understood how to 
connect the head in the heart 

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that I was experiencing in the 
church and in my faith in such a

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powerful way until I started 
learning what a gift the 

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catechism really is in the 
methodology behind it, the 

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intention behind it. 
So that really transformed 

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everything. 
So I say recovering because I 

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went down the path of like all 
about the content and then 

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needed to kind of, it's not that
I, I push the content away, but 

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I needed to, I was inspired to 
go like deeper and go to the 

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sources and yeah. 
And and so that, that's why I 

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say recovering. 
Yeah, that's, that's so great. 

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I, I love the back story there 
because the first time I ever 

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heard your name was when I was a
parish ministry leader. 

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You were the Bible and catechism
guy. 

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You were still in parish 
ministry as well. 

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And you, it was blog posts at 
the time, but talking about the,

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the need for both the Bible and 
the Catechism in, in ministry. 

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Can you tell us a little bit 
more about how that became your 

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thing? 
Yeah, I mean, it's a, it's 

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weird. 
I got, you know, grace builds on

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nature. 
Like it's a combination of, you 

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know, I'm in parish ministry. 
I also, you know, I'm very 

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creative and I have an incessant
desire to express myself to 

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anyone who will listen. 
And I like the process of being 

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being affected by something 
personally, and then and then 

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creating, you know, creating art
or creating messages or speaking

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to people about what I've 
learned. 

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And so that was just kind of the
natural thing for me. 

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I'm also maybe from earlier, one
of my answers gave this way. 

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I'm kind of a non conformist. 
So if, if there's something that

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everyone thinks is one way, I'm 
very drawn to how can we pitch 

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it a different way? 
And the catechism for me and for

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other people I knew it was like,
oh, this is just dry 

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intellectual knowledge. 
Like we're trying to get into 

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the like the krigma and 
preaching Jesus. 

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And I found the krigma in the 
catechism, and I found people 

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like Father in your Cantilla 
Mesa, who's a preacher to the 

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papal household, this amazing 
charismatic Franciscan Friar who

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decides to give, I think it's 
two of his four Advent sermons, 

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the papal household. 
He speaks about the catechism 

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and he described it as he said 
in one quote, he said, I would 

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like to try to show you how the 
Catechism can be picked up like 

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a violin and used to rouse the 
heart of man. 

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And so he spoke of this just 
like very charismatic language 

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about the catechism. 
So, yeah, so obviously I just 

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started creating from that. 
Like I, I, I wanted a space to, 

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I wanted a space to encourage 
people to encounter the 

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pulsating heart of the Catechism
like I had and begin praying 

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with it and not just treating it
as intellectual, you know, 

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information. 
I love that like connection 

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between the heart and the head 
that we all must go go through 

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that journey. 
When we, when we look at good 

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content, you know, how, how can 
that serve confirmation, 

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preparation. 
And I'm, I'm, I'm thinking like 

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of our audience, that might be 
the mom who's tapped on the 

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shoulder to lead confirmation 
this year 'cause she's got a kid

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that needs it. 
Or, you know, maybe you're a 

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full time youth minister or 
somewhere in between. 

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But yeah, how can how can good 
content serve confirmation prep?

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00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:09,120
Yeah, I mean, I, I think about 
many volunteers like they're 

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they really, they really are the
Saints in in ministry and parish

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ministry because they're 
volunteering their time and they

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have they have limited time and 
they might come across these 

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conversations that we in the 
ministry world are very familiar

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with, which is like, you know, 
content isn't like you're 

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00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:28,640
talking about like contents, not
king or or maybe just confused 

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about is it OK for me to be 
using content? 

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00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:33,000
Should I not be using content? 
Should I be should I be 

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approaching this hour and a half
I have with 8th graders as if 

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I'm Scott Hahn, you know, 
reincarnated to hear to give the

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most amazing lecture and sermon?
Or do I put on something that I 

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feel is really powerful, like 
you've come across some of these

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resources, Alpha and Y disciple,
some of these things that you're

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like, this is really moving. 
I want to share this with 

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people. 
So I, I feel for volunteers who 

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might overhear that. 
But I, I think about the fact 

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that like, you know, Jesus 
didn't use the Internet or 

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social media or toilet paper, 
you know, so it's like, you 

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00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:14,840
know, content, like, yeah, 
every, everything is content. 

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00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:19,040
Jesus himself was handed a 
scroll and stood up in the 

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00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:25,040
synagogue, read from it, and 
then taught and connected God's 

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00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:29,960
word, The content in a format 
that was handed to him, he 

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00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:33,160
selected, but he was handed a 
scroll and he selected from 

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within the scroll. 
And I think of volunteers who 

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they're handed a curriculum, 
they have some choice of what 

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type of content to choose or to 
proclaim, let's say. 

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And then they are given the 
special opportunity after or 

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00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:52,920
before the content to connect to
people in front of them in a way

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00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,480
that can be deeply evangelistic 
and charismatic. 

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So I think content is is an aid.
It's only as good as. 

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The evangelist, the person 
there. 

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But it's such a powerful thing. 
I mean, like who? 

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00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:09,960
I'm sure if we went around the 
room, all of us have really 

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00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:15,560
impactful, really powerful 
memories of consuming some form 

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00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,320
of content with someone we love 
that we'll never be able to 

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00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:19,640
forget. 
Like the first time you saw Star

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00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,560
Wars. 
We do Dad some series you watch 

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00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:26,040
with someone that opened up deep
conversations and I think that's

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00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:29,080
what really good content like 
what you guys may can do. 

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00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:31,680
It can open up good 
conversations and it's a aid. 

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00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:34,600
I love that. 
I love that framing. 

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00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:40,600
So what doesn't content solve, 
especially in the conversation 

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00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:47,520
around confirmation? 
Yeah, content doesn't replace 

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the witness. 
You know, I know you guys all 

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00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:53,920
know this, but the church's 
letter on evangelization, 

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00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:58,520
Evangela New Tiondi, it says 
modern man will listen more 

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willingly to witnesses than to 
teachers. 

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00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:03,400
And if modern man does listen to
teachers is because they were 

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00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,360
first witnesses. 
So the content doesn't replace 

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the witness of your life. 
I mean, these people we looked 

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up, we looked these people I 
looked up to who are authors or 

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00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:18,320
speakers when I think back on it
really was their life that was 

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powerful. 
You know, while I was at Georgia

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Tech, I listened to a a talk by 
Jeff Cavans. 

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00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:32,320
It was, oh man, it was on the 
Eucharist as true food or it was

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something I've it was had a 
really catchy title. 

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I must have listened to the this
this particular talk 100 times. 

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I memorized, you know, Baruch, 
Qatar, Aronai, Alhino, Malekha, 

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00:21:45,120 --> 00:21:48,520
Alam, Hamotse, Lechem Minha. 
It's like Jeff Cavan says that 

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00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,120
in the talk. 
And it hit me and it was 

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powerful. 
And I memorized it because I was

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like, that was so cool. 
I want to be like that. 

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But. 
But but I think that that is a 

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great example of what content 
can't replace is that just 

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saying the words doesn't make my
life witness the same as Jeff 

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Cavan's. 
It doesn't make it powerful. 

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Like, yeah, like, I wasn't 
living a life that backed up 

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this cool thing, you know, And 
so it doesn't replace the 

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00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,000
witness. 
And I think it also doesn't 

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replace the the application to 
someone's life. 

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00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:29,200
Like, you know, the kid in your 
class whose mom is bipolar and 

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whose dad left when he was 2. 
Like you have to take this is 

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literally at the bedrock of the 
plan for salvation that God gave

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the church. 
Is that what the gospel is 

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00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:46,760
missing is your expression of it
today to the people that God put

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00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:49,040
in front of you and he wants to 
cooperate with you. 

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00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:54,200
And so yes, like Jesus is the 
Son of God and that's the same 

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00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:55,320
thing. 
And we can all repeat it over 

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00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:56,880
and over again. 
But it means something different

400
00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:58,320
when I say it. 
And it means something 

401
00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:00,080
different. 
You know what I mean? 

402
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,320
Like it means something 
different, but there's something

403
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,720
behind it. 
There's a person behind it when 

404
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:07,120
when you say it or when you talk
about it. 

405
00:23:07,120 --> 00:23:09,880
So those are things I think it 
doesn't replace. 

406
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:12,640
Yeah, that's beautiful. 
So I kind of want to go on the 

407
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:18,160
flip then as we think about 
content, what is the non 

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00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:21,480
negotiable content that we have 
to share in the space of 

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00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,120
confirmation prep? 
Like in your opinion, in your 

410
00:23:24,120 --> 00:23:26,120
thoughts, like we have to share 
this. 

411
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:35,720
Yeah, I mean, when when I would 
train volunteers as catechists 

412
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,600
and I'm sure you guys have 
talked about this or do talk 

413
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:43,360
about this a lot. 
You know, if I only have a few 

414
00:23:43,360 --> 00:23:46,200
minutes, it's just the the 
charisma, the basic gospel 

415
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:52,040
message because we have it's it 
is true that we might only have 

416
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:54,560
a few sessions, we might only 
have a limited amount of time 

417
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:56,920
and we might be in front of 
people that are either 

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00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:00,920
indifferent or actively hostile 
to the lesson. 

419
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:04,600
So I mean. 
The the. 

420
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,560
Yeah. 
I mean, the, the correct answer 

421
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:14,600
is it's all essential. 
The, the, the more helpful 

422
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:20,480
answer is if you had to focus on
like one thing, I mean it's, 

423
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,120
it's catechism paragraph one, 
it's the Gospel message, the 

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00:24:23,120 --> 00:24:26,960
Krigma. 
And, and I think I would 

425
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:31,120
probably say instead of saying 
what is essential, I would say 

426
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:36,200
what is the most helpful, a 
simple framework that sets 

427
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:40,960
someone up to fill in the rest. 
So you're not giving them per 

428
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,360
random individual pearls and 
saying at the end of your life 

429
00:24:44,360 --> 00:24:46,760
you'll have all these pearls of 
Catholic teaching. 

430
00:24:47,120 --> 00:24:50,920
You're trying to help them 
understand the spokes on a 

431
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,040
wheel, that the center is Jesus 
and the Krigma and that 

432
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,560
everything else does fit in. 
Everything else is connected to 

433
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,320
that and comes out of that. 
And later you can figure out 

434
00:24:59,360 --> 00:25:01,920
like the varying degrees of 
spiration in theology. 

435
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,160
But we're like, if we can at 
least get the center of the 

436
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,720
Krigma, then you've set people 
up well with a framework, you 

437
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:08,400
know? 
Yeah, I. 

438
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:10,920
Love that. 
I think, I think it was Pope 

439
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:14,680
Benedict that said we can no 
longer presume faith for the 

440
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:18,800
baptized. 
And when we look at the the 

441
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:23,560
young people who are coming to 
us for, for confirmation, many 

442
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:27,880
of them are, are not sure what 
they believe. 

443
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,600
You know, maybe they've had some
education, maybe they haven't. 

444
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:38,400
And so I think, I think, I think
that comes to mind for me is we,

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we have to do it in, in the 
proper order so that they can 

446
00:25:45,120 --> 00:25:49,480
start at the beginning and 
again, slow down and go through 

447
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:53,360
this, this process to, to 
understand some of these basics.

448
00:25:53,360 --> 00:25:56,280
You know, I'm thinking of like 
Saint Paul, when he says, when 

449
00:25:56,280 --> 00:26:00,120
you have an infant and you try 
and give him meat, that the 

450
00:26:00,120 --> 00:26:02,640
infant can't, can't eat the 
meat. 

451
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:06,040
They, they need milk. 
And so a lot of our young people

452
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,200
need, need milk. 
They need the Karigma, they need

453
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:14,080
a, a place to look at these 
questions, chew on them, and 

454
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,840
then we can get into these 
deeper. 

455
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,840
You know, I think the Catechism 
talks about this hierarchy of 

456
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:23,640
truths that, that we got to 
start with the foundation first.

457
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:34,000
So as we, as we look at this 
and, and, and we're, where we 

458
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:38,240
want to make sure we have a 
curriculum that we are, we're, 

459
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,520
we're utilizing what, what would
be some things that would be 

460
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:45,320
essential as we prepare and for 
these conversations. 

461
00:26:45,360 --> 00:26:49,800
How do we help this youth 
minister or, you know, you might

462
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,360
be, you might have 8 kids, you 
might have 50 kids. 

463
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,400
How do how do we help these 
conversations take place? 

464
00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:00,600
You mean like during during a 
setting them up during let's say

465
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,680
like a class or a session? 
Sure, sure. 

466
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,400
Yeah, yeah. 
Yeah, man, that's a big 

467
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,440
question. 
I think, you know, one of The 

468
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:17,120
thing is as I was thinking about
today in our conversation to get

469
00:27:17,120 --> 00:27:24,040
nerdy, you know, the ecclesial 
method by Monsignor or anyways, 

470
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,680
at Franciscania, I'm doing 
Franciscan A disservice. 

471
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:31,800
There's a there's a, there was a
call in the church to to 

472
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,880
rediscover an evangelistic 
catechesis. 

473
00:27:36,360 --> 00:27:41,360
And there's an element to like 
there is good catechesis and 

474
00:27:41,360 --> 00:27:46,160
there's bad catechesis. 
And good catechesis is whatever,

475
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:51,200
whatever most closely resembles 
the method model by the master 

476
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,440
Jesus, like God's methodology of
catechizing. 

477
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:59,440
And at the at the heart of it is
something that's akin to Lexio 

478
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:05,480
Davina or other things like 
this, where you reflect on 

479
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:13,640
divine revelation or content and
and, and you discern the kernel,

480
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:18,200
the proc, the core proclamation,
the thing, the thing that it's 

481
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:22,640
like, you know, love means to 
will the good of the beloved or 

482
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:27,920
or, you know, God didn't. 
Yeah, like, like the the core 

483
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,640
proclamation in the content. 
And I think one of the probably 

484
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:35,920
the best things you could teach 
volunteers or that they could 

485
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,880
practice. 
It's the same with Lexia Davina.

486
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:43,120
If you, if you really reflect on
a short passage of scripture and

487
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:47,600
there's one line or there's one 
summary or your your kind of 

488
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,880
like way of articulating 
shorthand, the core proclamation

489
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,600
that carries this like spiritual
weight to it. 

490
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:57,560
And and you feel your soul and 
your heart kind of like pick up 

491
00:28:57,560 --> 00:28:59,320
a little bit. 
You know, Protestants might call

492
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,760
it like the preacher's burden. 
You can, you know, these 

493
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,320
resources in the content of 
Alpha and Y disciple. 

494
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,240
They have the gospel message in 
them. 

495
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:11,640
And so there's that practice of 
reflecting on the content that 

496
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:15,360
you might be showing to the 
point where it there's that 

497
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,080
personal reaction to it. 
Like there's that personal, like

498
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:22,000
I am being evangelized by this 
and this is the heart of it. 

499
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,840
This is the proclamation. 
If you just, if you, if you walk

500
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,600
away from this class and you 
just want this one thing, I just

501
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:33,200
want you to know this one thing.
I think that would be massive. 

502
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:37,360
That practice of prayerfully 
prepping with the content 

503
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,400
beforehand, not just 
intellectually, so you know it, 

504
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:42,440
but like, what is the core 
thing? 

505
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:46,200
Like, like God became man, so 
man might become God. 

506
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,160
And like you feel that because 
that means something to you and 

507
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:51,360
it's changing you. 
And you just at the end of the 

508
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:55,160
day, you want to talk about that
and, and talk about how this 

509
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:56,640
changed you and how it can 
change them. 

510
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:01,120
If I was to translate this 
quickly and like a two word 

511
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:05,880
thing, it's enter in. 
You have to enter in. 

512
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,960
Don't just teach or be 
disconnected. 

513
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,120
You have to enter in with the 
process again. 

514
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:18,720
I love that that image of 
treating our treating catechesis

515
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,600
like Lexia Divina I, I love 
that. 

516
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:25,800
I know in my my early parish 
ministry days, coming out of 

517
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:32,160
college with my theology degree,
I was very zealous and I wanted 

518
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,120
young people to know all the 
things that I knew and I wanted 

519
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,240
to pass on like I'd fallen in 
love with the Catholic 

520
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,200
intellectual tradition. 
Edmund, I think you and I would 

521
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,080
have been friends because I read
all of the books you just 

522
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:44,880
dropped. 
And were you listening to those 

523
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,200
talks on tapes? 
Because I certainly. 

524
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:49,920
Was sometimes. 
Sometimes it was, yeah, for 

525
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:51,040
sure. 
Yeah, that. 

526
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:53,920
Mostly other newer methods 
though, so. 

527
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,000
Well, the newer methods didn't 
exist when I was listening to 

528
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,280
them. 
Just make sure we establish 

529
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:00,760
that. 
Connection. 

530
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:05,920
Thank you. 
But I I wanted to give them all 

531
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:09,960
of this. 
And the mistake that I made was 

532
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,440
by way of analogy, like here in 
the Midwest, we've been 

533
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,640
experiencing drought for the 
last several years. 

534
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:21,040
My lawn was toast in May last 
year. 

535
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:22,920
And that's normally when it's 
like coming to life. 

536
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,680
And June happened and we had the
floodgates open. 

537
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,200
We had all this rain come down 
and we're like, yeah, droughts 

538
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:31,040
over. 
Guess what? 

539
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:34,200
Droughts not over because the 
rain came too fast. 

540
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,640
It all ran off and it actually 
caused some damage. 

541
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:41,480
And I think what I was doing in 
my early days with content was 

542
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:43,880
very similar to that. 
I and it was coming from a good 

543
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:46,520
place. 
I wanted them to know all of 

544
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:50,840
these wonderful things, but I 
gave it all at once. 

545
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:55,880
It was like a downpour. 
And because of that, it wasn't 

546
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,760
there wasn't the ground wasn't 
ready to receive those truths. 

547
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:02,560
And so I love what you're 
talking about, Edmund, with 

548
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:07,640
what's the one thing like? 
Can we say less so they can 

549
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:12,800
receive that one thing not just 
into their minds, but into your 

550
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:15,400
their hearts? 
And I've, I've just never heard 

551
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,520
anybody compared to Lexia Davina
in that way. 

552
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,560
That's beautiful. 
Yeah, that's one of the that's 

553
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,600
one of the beginner kind of 
mistakes that I fell into. 

554
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:28,720
And then we had to talk about a 
lot with first and second year 

555
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:32,800
volunteer catechists. 
Is that what is impactful for 

556
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,480
you? 
What, what the messages and the 

557
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,800
articulations of it that have 
changed your life might not be 

558
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,800
impactful for other people. 
So that's a, that's a huge, 

559
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:43,600
that's a very important point 
you make. 

560
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:47,360
And he's like, you have to not 
just look for the books and the 

561
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,120
talks and the expressions and 
the analogies and stories that 

562
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:52,360
transformed your life. 
You have to go to that 

563
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:55,760
proclamation, to that core 
message, you know? 

564
00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:01,040
I feel like what I'm hearing 
happened in your story, Edmund, 

565
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:05,840
in, in what we want to do with 
young people is we want to, we 

566
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,920
want to get them thinking. 
We want to give space and time 

567
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:12,760
for them to reflect on these 
questions and really arouse 

568
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:18,320
curiosity and, and help them 
recognize this hunger for more, 

569
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,520
right? 
And so we we don't need to give 

570
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:26,000
it all at once right in this 
downpour, this fire hose, but 

571
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:31,680
but we want to, we want to allow
them to have an encounter with 

572
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:36,760
the Lord and then realize that 
there's so much here, like this 

573
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:40,040
is a lifelong process. 
For the majority of people, 

574
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:42,960
there won't be that downpour, 
but would you guys say that 

575
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:46,920
there may be some individuals, 
although very infrequent that 

576
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:52,520
maybe one or two that you see 
like ought to love them best? 

577
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,520
It is the downpour. 
I guess I'm asking the question 

578
00:33:56,520 --> 00:34:01,760
because then I'm wondering how 
do you discern the pace in which

579
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:03,200
we need to run? 
Sure. 

580
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:09,520
Yeah, I love that. 
You know, I Doctor Petrock 

581
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,199
Wiley, I always forget how to 
pronounce his last name. 

582
00:34:12,199 --> 00:34:16,199
So forgive me, Petrock, but he 
was the first person I could 

583
00:34:16,199 --> 00:34:19,920
find in, in the early years that
I would consider someone might 

584
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:21,840
consider like a expert on the 
Catechism. 

585
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,520
And it's really interesting 
because I, I was immediately 

586
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:26,560
doing the same thing I would do 
in the past, which is like, oh, 

587
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:28,719
let me cling to some expert on 
the catechism. 

588
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:30,800
And it's funny because you did a
lot of work at Francis, the 

589
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:36,080
Franciscan at home online, like 
volunteer training for 

590
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,280
catechesis. 
I went to one of their sessions 

591
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:42,760
where they were training mentors
for the program and they gave 

592
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,040
this beautiful Doctor Petrarch 
in particular gave this 

593
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:49,360
beautiful reflection on the 
difference between experts and 

594
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:53,440
mentors and that catechists are 
much more like mentors than 

595
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:55,880
experts. 
An expert stands in front of a 

596
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:57,960
student and says, I want to 
teach you. 

597
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:04,800
But a mentor in the, you know, 
in antiquity, in times like in 

598
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:08,920
ancient Greece or maybe Rome, a 
mentor was a little more like a 

599
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,280
tutor, but not in the sense of 
that they were the one that did 

600
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:14,240
the teaching. 
A mentor was someone maybe more 

601
00:35:14,240 --> 00:35:16,960
like a like a nanny. 
You know, it was someone who 

602
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:21,760
knew the families kids so well 
and knew the experts. 

603
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,440
And so they knew the student 
really well and they knew, oh, 

604
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,040
you're kind of rough on 
rhetoric, but you're really good

605
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:31,920
at math, but you know it and 
knew and stood beside the 

606
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,600
student and knew the students so
well that they knew where to 

607
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:36,640
take them to and say, oh, you 
should look into this. 

608
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:37,920
You should meet with this 
person, You should read this 

609
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:41,160
book. 
And so I think, I think, you 

610
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,720
know, the answer is it is in the
question like if you know that 

611
00:35:44,720 --> 00:35:48,920
a, that a teen is really just, I
mean, it's, it's like raising 

612
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,360
kids, you know, it's like you 
just encourage the things that 

613
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:54,280
they get passionate about. 
So I think for sure there's, I 

614
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:57,400
mean, I Thomas Aquinas at 12, I 
would not want to be like, 

615
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,320
let's, let's stop with the 
intellectual stuff. 

616
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,600
Let's just, you know, like you, 
you want to encourage that you. 

617
00:36:02,720 --> 00:36:03,320
Know. 
Yeah. 

618
00:36:03,720 --> 00:36:06,880
Well, and I love that you point 
out that the key to it is 

619
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:11,240
personal, is knowing the 
individual and what that person 

620
00:36:11,240 --> 00:36:13,440
needs. 
Like, I can think of two 

621
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:19,320
students in my 20 years in 
ministry that what they desired 

622
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,960
was the firehose. 
Like they were, they're very 

623
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:26,200
intellectual, both of them young
women in this case. 

624
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,440
And it was handing them those 
books that you were talking 

625
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,280
about, Edmund, and then not just
handing them the book and being 

626
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,000
like, well converted and sitting
down and talking with them. 

627
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,040
But it but it's all comes back 
to what you're saying. 

628
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:43,160
Edmund is in order for that to 
happen, I needed to know her and

629
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:45,520
her desire and her story and her
intellect. 

630
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,680
And what was interesting about 
one of them is she was taking 

631
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,240
all the things she was learning 
and then bringing them into our 

632
00:36:51,240 --> 00:36:54,520
small groups to other girls who 
who weren't in that space. 

633
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,200
And they were hearing it from 
her in a way they would never 

634
00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:59,920
have heard it from me. 
And it probably ignited new kind

635
00:36:59,920 --> 00:37:04,160
of conversations and yeah, cool.
I I think it's important to, to 

636
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:08,040
just reflect that we have this 
incredible tradition. 

637
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:12,920
We we have a wealth of theology.
You can spend your whole life 

638
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:20,400
trying to consume, but it's 
that's the the goal is 

639
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:25,280
relationship with the Lord. 
The goal is to allow that to 

640
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:27,680
transform our lives to be more 
like his. 

641
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:33,800
And so these, these, these 
opportunities to learn, you 

642
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:37,320
know, we want to make sure that 
our faith is growing, right? 

643
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:40,560
Our, our trust in the Lord is 
growing because nowhere in the 

644
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:44,000
Gospels does Jesus say, Oh, it's
by knowledge, you've been saved,

645
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:47,080
right? 
So, so, so it has to which which

646
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:50,520
goes back to this relationship 
again, like within the Triune 

647
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:52,800
God that we're invited into that
space. 

648
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:58,840
OK, So what I'm hearing everyone
say is typically right now in 

649
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:02,080
the space of confirmation across
the USA, we need to take a 

650
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:04,320
slower approach and go at the 
pace of relationship. 

651
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:10,520
And that is gonna generally be 
slower, but very sporadically 

652
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:14,040
are there gonna be moments that 
yeah, the downpour will happen, 

653
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:15,360
but that doesn't mean it's 
better or worse. 

654
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:18,480
It just means that the filter 
comes, that understanding comes 

655
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:21,600
to the filter of relationship. 
And so the content you should 

656
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:25,120
have be ready to go at the pace 
in which God is growing 

657
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:26,920
something in the heart of that 
young person. 

658
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:32,200
Just yes. 
And and so for the context of a,

659
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:37,760
the person doing confirmation 
preparation, this means you 

660
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,880
can't do it all by yourself 
because you have to get to know 

661
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,200
the person in front of you and 
where they are and and have that

662
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:48,440
accompaniment. 
So how did you admin in in that 

663
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,480
when your space of doing this? 
Like what were some of the 

664
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:57,400
practical things you did so that
they could get content in a 

665
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:01,000
relational way and have the 
space to to process it? 

666
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:08,640
Yeah, I mean, I mean, these 
aren't my, my brilliant, I guess

667
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,600
ideas. 
I mean, I'm a product of yeah, 

668
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:15,640
like Franciscan and then the 
evangelical renewal of 

669
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:19,440
catechesis. 
But I think of the methodology 

670
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:24,240
methodologies of John Bosco and 
then also just the ecclesial 

671
00:39:24,240 --> 00:39:28,320
method that we mentioned. 
But in general, the the method 

672
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:32,720
you see in throughout Scripture 
kind of takes on a similar 

673
00:39:32,720 --> 00:39:35,360
shape. 
And then there's something that 

674
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:39,960
is that suddenly kind of is 
surprising that kind of takes 

675
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,360
people out of the place that 
they're already in. 

676
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:46,360
So an Angel appears to marry or 
there's a Bush that's on fire. 

677
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:48,800
And it's surprising and it's 
interesting. 

678
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:52,640
There's this preparation for the
proclamation of the gospel that 

679
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,400
kind of takes them out of it. 
And so that could be an 

680
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:57,840
interesting clip from a movie. 
It could be a question you ask, 

681
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:01,480
it could be, it could be the way
you restructure all the seats in

682
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:03,440
your classroom. 
It could be standing outside the

683
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,000
classroom and talking to people 
before you go in. 

684
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:08,560
So there's just preparation. 
Then there's the proclamation, 

685
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:13,600
like what is the core 
proclamation of the gospel 

686
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:17,160
that's being proclaimed in this 
particular situation? 

687
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:19,520
And then there's the unpacking 
of that. 

688
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:22,280
There's the let's together 
unpack this. 

689
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,120
So I think. 
And then, you know, finally 

690
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:28,840
there's like now what do we do? 
Like the application? 

691
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:33,480
And I, I also think of Saint 
Francis Xavier comes to mind and

692
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:37,320
him running through, basically 
sprinting through India, just he

693
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:39,160
can't baptize people fast 
enough. 

694
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:43,280
And, and you imagine, you know, 
back then you don't have a lot 

695
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:46,280
of the content, the resources, 
you know, you might not even 

696
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:48,640
have, but you know, books or 
things written down. 

697
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:52,040
He just taught them the four 
pillars of the catechism, but he

698
00:40:52,240 --> 00:40:57,040
he taught them to memorize the 
creed, to understand, just to 

699
00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:00,920
know the sacraments, to memorize
the 10 commandments and to 

700
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:03,360
memorize the Our Father. 
And the catechism really 

701
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:07,400
brilliantly uses that framework.
So that's, you know, wouldn't 

702
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:09,360
take that long. 
You could write down on a piece 

703
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:13,120
of paper those four things, but 
the framework for the whole 

704
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:17,240
deposit of faith hangs on that. 
And you could spend the rest of 

705
00:41:17,240 --> 00:41:21,160
your life writing books on just,
you know, the fact that God is 

706
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:24,760
Trinity. 
So those are some of the things 

707
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:28,040
that I, I always came up with 
the best ideas when I thought 

708
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:31,440
about it from that approach. 
How do I, how do I get people's 

709
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:33,880
attention? 
How do I try to take them out of

710
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:36,800
wherever they've been and get 
them to the point where they're,

711
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:42,080
they're, they're really asking, 
really wanting to know the 

712
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:44,720
proclamation before we give it 
to them. 

713
00:41:44,720 --> 00:41:47,640
So like, how do you build that 
curiosity and openness? 

714
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:52,800
Well, we are, thanks be to God 
in a digital age where there are

715
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:57,000
some beautiful resources that, 
you know, after the, the 

716
00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:00,600
confirmation session or even 
after the sacrament, people can,

717
00:42:00,720 --> 00:42:03,960
can continue to ask these 
questions and, and what is, what

718
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:07,000
does the church say? 
One of the projects I know 

719
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:10,800
you've, you've worked on real 
plus true. 

720
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:14,080
Can you share a little bit about
what that is and how that 

721
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:19,560
connected with those 4 pillars? 
And actually, can you clarify a 

722
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:25,560
long running debate I've had? 
Is it real plus true or real and

723
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:30,360
true or real plus and true? 
Real plus and true sounds great.

724
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:32,040
I want to tattoo this as real, 
plus and true. 

725
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:34,840
And he's good at making stuff 
up. 

726
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,760
The official stance is it's the 
official stance is it's both. 

727
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:42,120
But yeah, I mean. 
It's so it's brilliant 

728
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:43,760
marketing, man. 
It's brilliant marketing. 

729
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:45,080
Just keep people questioning. 
Those. 

730
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:47,040
That's the startle of getting 
them in, you know. 

731
00:42:47,720 --> 00:42:52,200
Yeah, yeah, the the hallmark of 
a really good brand and name is 

732
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:53,880
that people go, what the heck is
this? 

733
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:07,720
So, yeah, I mean, man, 4-4 or 
five years ago, I met Edmundo 

734
00:43:07,720 --> 00:43:10,400
Reyes and Emily Mentoc, who 
worked at the Archdiocese of 

735
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:15,840
Detroit in communications and 
and brilliant content and 

736
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:22,200
digital evangelists. 
They also had seen me hang car 

737
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:25,200
and read like a paragraph from 
the catechism on a social clip 

738
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:26,600
or something. 
So they were like, we got to 

739
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:29,960
like talk to this guy. 
So the idea of a project came to

740
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:35,280
mind was, you know, what if we 
created content that tried to do

741
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,000
what Father Raniero canceled, 
Mesa said. 

742
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:40,920
Which is like take the 
catechism, be inspired by it and

743
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:46,480
create video content that would 
do some of these step or that 

744
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:49,480
would that would attempt to do 
some of these steps of what we 

745
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:51,600
talked about the catechetical 
methodology. 

746
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:58,520
And that was the crazy idea. 
And then so we pitched the idea 

747
00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:02,000
to OSV and they thankfully 
funded it. 

748
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:05,360
So that's free to the world. 
And it's a four year project, 

749
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:07,600
one year for each pillar of the 
catechism. 

750
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:12,640
And then each month is a unit. 
So we split each pillar into 12 

751
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:14,960
units. 
Each unit has three videos. 

752
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:18,400
The first one is kind of that 
curiosity. 

753
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:22,080
It's not explicitly teaching, 
but it's kind of trying to pique

754
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:24,280
curiosity about a topic to get 
you talking. 

755
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:27,400
So 1 is like one of our 
favorites is on Call and 

756
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:29,080
response. 
Why is call and response in 

757
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:32,040
music and concerts so 
interesting and captivating? 

758
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:35,320
And so it kind of sets you up to
be asking these deeper questions

759
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:37,960
about what it means to be human 
person or spirituality by the 

760
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:40,080
end. 
And it sets up the next video, 

761
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:44,160
which is explicitly kind of 
what's the teaching of the 

762
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:48,080
church in three to 5 minutes. 
And the last video is the live 

763
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:48,760
action. 
That's me. 

764
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:51,240
It's like a YouTube style video 
where it's like, how do we apply

765
00:44:51,240 --> 00:44:54,440
it? 
So yeah, it's, it's translated 

766
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:56,280
into multiple languages. 
It's really crazy. 

767
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:58,560
It's it's shared all over the 
world. 

768
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:02,360
And it was recognized by the 
Vatican Council for the New 

769
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:05,800
Evangelization as like a project
worthy of the New 

770
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:08,400
Evangelization. 
So, and again, we have the same 

771
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:12,040
conversations you guys had or, 
or you had mentioned, like when 

772
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:15,000
we were talking with OSV about 
this, we said we, this can't 

773
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:19,760
just be a curriculum that we, it
can't be something that is 

774
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:23,800
offered to a catechist or 
volunteer as like just put this 

775
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:26,720
on and step away. 
It like has to be these 

776
00:45:26,720 --> 00:45:28,200
resources that you could pick 
from. 

777
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:29,600
So like you're handed the 
scroll. 

778
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:32,240
Which one are you going to pick 
and how are you going to use 

779
00:45:32,240 --> 00:45:33,400
that? 
You know, use it at the 

780
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:36,120
beginning or use it during 
teaching or use it afterwards or

781
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:38,000
send it in an e-mail. 
But how do you? 

782
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:42,520
How do you use it to help in 
your task of catechesis and 

783
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:43,960
evangelization? 
That's awesome. 

784
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:46,720
That's great. 
Love it. 

785
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:50,800
Edmund, this has been an 
excellent conversation. 

786
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:54,280
Your wisdom has just brought so 
much clarity around all the 

787
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:58,400
things we've been talking about.
Where can our listeners find 

788
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:00,120
you? 
Me. 

789
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:02,480
Yeah. 
Like my home address? 

790
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:05,240
No. 
I mean. 

791
00:46:05,240 --> 00:46:07,760
What project you working on now 
that they can tap into? 

792
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:11,320
Yeah, Edmund 
mitchell.edmundmitchell.com or 

793
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:12,880
I'm the most active on 
Instagram. 

794
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,720
And so that's the main point. 
And then if if you're a parish 

795
00:46:16,720 --> 00:46:20,040
minister, I I started a 
community for parish ministers 

796
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:22,840
where it's it's an online 
membership community that 

797
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:27,040
specifically focuses on the 
other 35 hours of your week. 

798
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:30,440
So how do you do your job really
well and still, you know, keep 

799
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:33,160
that missionary spirituality so.
I love that. 

800
00:46:33,240 --> 00:46:35,160
That's so great. 
That's so great. 

801
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:38,640
So we've been asking every guest
the same question and that's how

802
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:41,360
we end our time. 
So get ready. 

803
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:43,800
There we go. 
OK, if and it doesn't have to be

804
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:45,240
about the topic. 
Well, it has to be about 

805
00:46:45,240 --> 00:46:47,840
confirmation, but doesn't have 
to be about what we talked about

806
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:52,000
with content still isn't king. 
But what is your one piece of 

807
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:55,880
advice to anyone listening 
regarding confirmation? 

808
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:02,200
To anyone listening, 
particularly volunteers or. 

809
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:06,000
We will definitely have 
volunteers listening to this you

810
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:07,760
want. 
The audience meaning youth 

811
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:10,360
ministers. 
DRE's maybe the bivocation. 

812
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:12,240
Minister. 
Who's a volunteer? 

813
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:18,240
Oh, you know what? 
Yeah, my one piece of advice. 

814
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:22,200
This is kind of a secret about 
my personality and myself, but 

815
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:30,120
my one piece of advice actually 
would be ask yourself, what if 

816
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:33,320
your disadvantages were your 
unique advantages? 

817
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:36,720
So whatever your confirmation 
program or situation or context,

818
00:47:36,720 --> 00:47:39,520
if you're the director, if 
you're a volunteer, if you don't

819
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:45,760
have enough sessions scheduled, 
if you don't have kids that 

820
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:48,720
really want to be there, like 
what if, what if you took some 

821
00:47:48,720 --> 00:47:51,200
time prayerfully to ask 
yourself, what if this could be 

822
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:54,360
a huge advantage? 
How would I capitalize on the 

823
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:56,440
fact that none of these kids 
want to be here? 

824
00:47:56,840 --> 00:48:00,920
And I think throughout my, my 
time in ministry, that was 

825
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:03,840
really helpful and allowed me to
stay grateful and joyful, but 

826
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:10,080
also come up with really, really
creative ways to yeah, to, to 

827
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:12,920
actually reach people, person to
person. 

828
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:14,720
It's. 
Great. 

829
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:17,480
It's reminded me of the loaves 
and fishes, right? 

830
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:20,840
Like all these people, I'm, I'm 
at a disadvantage here. 

831
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:23,960
And then bringing that to the 
Lord and saying multiply, fix 

832
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:26,680
this and letting the Lord do it.
Love that. 

833
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:30,240
Oh, brother, thank you for for 
joining us. 

834
00:48:30,240 --> 00:48:32,680
Thanks for your your ministry 
and witness. 

835
00:48:32,720 --> 00:48:36,400
And we look forward to doing 
this again sometime soon. 

836
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:39,160
Yeah, I really appreciate it. 
I'm really honored you guys are 

837
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:42,680
pros. 
No, I think you're the pro, man.

838
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:45,240
We want to lean in more into 
what you're doing. 

839
00:48:45,240 --> 00:48:47,720
That sounds incredible. 
Really grateful for you, man. 

840
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:54,480
Thank you. 
All right, Jason, Annie, that 

841
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:57,200
was a lot. 
We went through a lot there and 

842
00:48:57,200 --> 00:49:00,440
probably addressing one of the 
big things that people think 

843
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:03,000
about when they think through 
confirmation. 

844
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:06,200
And I think, Annie, you told me 
like 1 of the number one things 

845
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:08,960
searched on Google is 
confirmation resources and 

846
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:11,680
content, right? 
And we're saying content still 

847
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:15,360
isn't king and then talk about 
content so. 

848
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:19,680
Because it matters. 
It does matter, right? 

849
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,720
It totally matters like. 
The truth matters, but we can't 

850
00:49:22,720 --> 00:49:24,360
just throw truth. 
Yes. 

851
00:49:24,720 --> 00:49:29,560
Yes, at young people without 
doing the work of accompaniment.

852
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:32,560
Yes. 
So my question for you guys is, 

853
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:35,920
what's the thing that you're 
walking away with in this 

854
00:49:36,240 --> 00:49:38,800
conversation with Edmund? 
Two things. 

855
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:43,440
One, as we contextualize this, 
we have to know our audience, 

856
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:44,880
right? 
And I'm thinking of Saint Paul 

857
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:49,960
in the Aeragopigus and he finds 
a way to bring the gospel into 

858
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:54,400
their culture and present it in 
a way they can understand so 

859
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:58,320
that they can process it. 
So contextualization and then 

860
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:03,600
relationship like, like we, we 
talking at people with truth 

861
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:07,800
does not bear fruit there. 
There has to be this movement 

862
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:11,200
that we see in Jesus when he 
encounters people and his love 

863
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:15,400
for them and the love opens 
their heart which allows them to

864
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:16,920
hear the truth. 
Yeah. 

865
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:20,920
And, and the big thing that I 
want to take away is his focus 

866
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:25,880
on saying less right? 
And, and, and even in our 

867
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:30,600
preparation, being focused and 
doing, doing one thing. 

868
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:35,160
I think, I, I think that's a 
mistake that we often make. 

869
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:37,520
And again, it comes from such a 
good place. 

870
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:42,040
Like, I have encountered the 
truth of the faith and I want 

871
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:47,960
other people to know it, but we 
often jump many, many levels 

872
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:50,440
beyond that. 
And it it just doesn't land. 

873
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:53,240
You know, one of the things I 
was thinking about, as in in 

874
00:50:53,240 --> 00:50:55,960
that conversation, was there's 
an article I read from Notre 

875
00:50:55,960 --> 00:51:00,440
Dame's Church Life Journal. 
The author, I, I believe his 

876
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:06,520
name is Leonard De Lorenzo. 
He's talking about how looking 

877
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:10,560
at content, he's specifically 
talking about curriculum and 

878
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:15,520
making it the best, most 
orthodox curriculum, which is 

879
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:20,160
again, super important. 
But if we are, if we're giving 

880
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:24,480
it to people who don't have a 
lived experience of the Catholic

881
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:27,280
faith, don't have a lived 
experience of what he calls the 

882
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:30,640
Catholic imagination is just 
doing a wrong thing. 

883
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:32,600
Writer is what he says in the 
article. 

884
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:38,560
And that that has always stuck 
with me, that we can't just 

885
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:42,280
throw better content at people. 
And one of the things that 

886
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:45,280
Edmund was talking about that I 
would have loved to spend more 

887
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:47,680
time talking about was he kept 
bringing up questions. 

888
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:51,480
Questions like, what are we 
asking them? 

889
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:54,360
Not just what are we giving 
them, but what are we asking 

890
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:56,600
them? 
I think we could do an entire 

891
00:51:56,600 --> 00:51:59,400
episode which we do not have 
time on, on asking great 

892
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:03,960
questions, right? 
Because it's not just enough to 

893
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:07,680
present true things. 
We need to have a conversation. 

894
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:12,200
And I love at the very end that 
he was talking about, what's the

895
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:15,440
one thing that you give advice 
for for anyone, you know, 

896
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:17,280
stepping in this leading 
confirmation. 

897
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:20,360
And he was like, whatever is 
your disadvantage? 

898
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:22,040
What if it could be your 
advantage? 

899
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:24,720
Yes. 
And OK, I know we got to wrap 

900
00:52:24,720 --> 00:52:27,080
this up, but quickly when you 
think of that, it'll go back to 

901
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:28,760
your younger self running 
confirmation. 

902
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:31,120
What's the quick disadvantage? 
It'd be like, what if that was 

903
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:32,320
an advantage? 
Like what? 

904
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:33,880
What was the disadvantage for 
you, Annie? 

905
00:52:36,240 --> 00:52:39,200
It's what he was saying. 
Like I have all these kids here 

906
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:40,880
who don't want to be here. 
Is that a? 

907
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:41,880
That's a common thing. 
Yes. 

908
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:44,520
Oh, it is. 
If you're listening to this and 

909
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:46,040
you feel like, oh, I'm a 
terrible human because they 

910
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:47,520
don't want to be here, it's 
actually quite common. 

911
00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:50,200
Yes, it's OK. 
Yes, and it took me a really 

912
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:54,360
long time to realize like, Oh my
gosh, Jesus has just given you 

913
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:59,760
150 souls who don't know me yet.
And and that was. 

914
00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:02,360
A gift. 
Yes, instead of a burden. 

915
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:05,280
Yeah, And, and what about you, 
Jason? 

916
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:11,000
Confirmation parents were the 
bane of my existence for many 

917
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:12,480
years. 
God bless them. 

918
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:17,920
And I made the arrogant mistake 
of being like, oh, give me your 

919
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:19,200
kids. 
I got this. 

920
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:28,520
What was me, forgive me, Lord, 
actually empowering and helping 

921
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:34,120
parents become a faith witness 
in their home, reminding them 

922
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:36,680
that the first church is a 
domestic church. 

923
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:41,040
They're the primary catechists 
as the church, like we have to 

924
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:45,240
be doing this with them. 
And that's not easy, but we we 

925
00:53:45,240 --> 00:53:47,600
got to start. 
So if you're listening to this 

926
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:55,840
and you feel disappointed or 
disadvantaged or overwhelmed, 

927
00:53:56,520 --> 00:53:59,840
you're in good company. 
And I, I love the posture of 

928
00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:02,480
like, let's give it back to the 
Lord and say, Lord, this is your

929
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:06,640
mission to begin with, that I 
get to engage with help. 

930
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:08,960
That's probably the most brave 
thing that we could do is say 

931
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:10,480
help. 
And I think the Lord will unlock

932
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:14,320
some innovation for us. 
But all so all right my friends,

933
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:16,920
the Lord has you where he wants 
you and this is good. 

934
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:20,040
Let's keep chatting about the 
space of confirmation and love 

935
00:54:20,040 --> 00:54:20,640
young people well.