1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:04,080 Welcome to Hecast, the official podcast of He Changed It. 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:06,560 As always, I am Mike Chism. As always, I am so excited to 3 00:00:06,560 --> 00:00:10,000 have conversations in the world around the world of of men's 4 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:13,680 mental Wellness. We are a podcast for men, about 5 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:15,560 men anyway. I mean, I'm sure there's some. 6 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:18,040 I know actually, I know that there are women who listen to 7 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:20,280 the show too. And I appreciate the feedback 8 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:22,360 that we get from that. So thank you very, very much. 9 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:25,440 But yeah, it's great to have these amazing conversations 10 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:27,080 around the world of men's mental Wellness. 11 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:30,680 Today we have a guy by the name of Robert Siciliano. 12 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:34,600 He is fantastic, very charismatic, Boston born and 13 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:36,320 raised. I love that just he's got that 14 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:38,960 Boston charm to him. He owns a company called Protect 15 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:41,120 now, which is actually a digital security company. 16 00:00:41,480 --> 00:00:44,520 Mike, what does digital security and, and, and mental Wellness, 17 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:48,080 men's mental Wellness and the struggle for it have in common? 18 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:49,920 Actually a lot more than you think, a lot more than you 19 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:52,160 think. It's not just about what it is 20 00:00:52,160 --> 00:00:54,720 that he does and, and what we can do. 21 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:56,240 And there's a lot of practical stuff here. 22 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:58,400 Like, let me tell you, there's a lot of practical stuff that we 23 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:00,280 can do here. Many times men feel like we 24 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:02,880 should be protectors for our family and the people around us, 25 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:04,080 right? We've got that thing. 26 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,480 A lot of us have that thing, if not all of us have that thing 27 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:08,560 inside us where we feel that need to protect. 28 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:12,480 I mean, it's a new day and age, you know, and digital protection 29 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:15,720 is a really important thing. But more so, Robert goes into 30 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:18,520 his story about how he got into this business and, and I mean, 31 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:22,160 you know, many times we get into something for a reason, and he 32 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:24,600 certainly did. He talks a lot about, he gets 33 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:26,160 really vulnerable and talks about some of the things he's 34 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:28,280 been through. And, and I just appreciate that 35 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:30,560 very much about him. It's just a great conversation 36 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:32,600 with a lot of practical use in it, too. 37 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:36,480 I hope you enjoy our episode this week featuring Robert 38 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:53,800 Siciliano. OK, Robert, I, I, I said this 39 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:56,360 before we hit record here. We've had lots of first 40 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:58,320 responders. We've had, you know, a lot of a 41 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:00,360 lot of police. We've had military firefighters, 42 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:01,720 different first responders and stuff. 43 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:05,320 I believe you are, we've even had undercover, you know, 44 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:08,479 enforcement on and whatnot. I believe you are our first Pi 45 00:02:08,479 --> 00:02:11,680 and you're from Boston and I'm just so excited based. 46 00:02:11,920 --> 00:02:14,080 I, I know how much personality you have. 47 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:16,640 We're going to get in to protect now and all the other stuff that 48 00:02:16,640 --> 00:02:18,880 you're doing. But at the end of the day, when 49 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,600 you you reached out being willing to talk about your 50 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,400 story, I knew that you were going to be one of my very 51 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:27,520 favorite conversations of the week. 52 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:30,880 Robert, welcome to he cast. Thank you so much, happy to be 53 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:32,920 here. Oh, I'm happy to have you, man. 54 00:02:32,920 --> 00:02:36,040 I'm happy to have you. OK, Give us the geographical 55 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:37,440 timeline. How long you been in Boston? 56 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:42,480 I'm born and bred in Boston, so 57 years. 57 years. 57 00:02:42,640 --> 00:02:46,240 You ran the marathon the day before the you ran it yesterday, 58 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:48,320 right? Yeah, it took me forever, but 59 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:53,680 that's what happens when you've run 14 Boston Marathons and on 60 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:56,240 the 12th 1 you get to get ankle surgery. 61 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:59,920 So my my training over the past couple of years has been 62 00:02:59,920 --> 00:03:02,960 stagnant due to that. I'm still nursing that. 63 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:08,160 And so yesterday I was fighting with the weather, my IT band and 64 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:13,560 my ankle. And I probably ran in total from 65 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:19,080 December to April, 12 miles. And I probably spent about maybe 66 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:23,120 20-5 hours on the bike in the garage, you know, spinning. 67 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:27,680 But that was it, you know, So for me, it's a matter of all up 68 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,880 here, it's in your head. And then if your physical body 69 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:34,600 can get to the starting line and you know enough about your body 70 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:37,240 to get to the finish line, you should be able to finish, which 71 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:40,080 I did. I admire the resilience of a 72 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:42,200 runner. I've always said that I, I'm in 73 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:44,400 the weight room quite a bit, but running is one of those ones 74 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:47,240 where they tell me about the runner's high and I don't know 75 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:49,240 when it shows up. I, I don't know if I've ever 76 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:50,320 experienced it. I'm not sure. 77 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:52,760 So that the resilience of a runner is crazy for me. 78 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:57,600 So the, the, how much of yesterday was muscle memory? 79 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:01,640 Like, like, like, like, did your body go, OK, I know this, I 80 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:03,640 remember this and you started feeling familiar? 81 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:08,720 Or was it completely foreign, having not been able to train 82 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:09,960 the way that you had in the past? 83 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:12,920 So I struggled. I mean, it was, it took me over 84 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:14,640 six hours, which is like a forever. 85 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:18,480 I'm a charity runner, so I always anticipate that it's 86 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:21,440 going to take me between 4 1/2 and 5 1/2. 87 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:24,520 Yesterday took me a little bit longer due to, you know, my 88 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:29,000 injuries. I ran injured and muscle memory 89 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:32,840 certainly kicks in. It's really boils down to 90 00:04:33,280 --> 00:04:36,560 fortitude and recognizing your own body. 91 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,680 Like to know thyself, I think is like one of the most important 92 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:42,600 philosophies ever. I mean, if you don't understand 93 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,120 yourself and you don't understand like what motivates 94 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:50,800 you, what pushes your buttons, why you are triggered or react 95 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:55,040 to life in general, I think that you're going to always react to 96 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:58,520 life in general. And so for me, knowing myself 97 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:01,360 meant OK, knowing my limitations. 98 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:06,720 And so at one point knowing that if I keep going the way I have 99 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:08,320 them, I'm going to tear something. 100 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:12,480 And here and there, like I, I gave it a little bit more and 101 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:16,160 realized, OK, I'm going too much too fast too soon. 102 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:21,640 So I walked like 4 miles before the last two miles and I 103 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:24,720 realized, I think I got this and I think I can actually give it 104 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:27,920 some speed now. And I got and I went from doing 105 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:31,720 like 15 minute miles to 12 minute miles and I finished 106 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:33,720 before the buzzer. So that was a good thing. 107 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:37,080 Well, there you go. OK, so, so you know, having run 108 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:41,560 it for 14 times, is it is it familiar? 109 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:43,720 Do you like landmarks? Certain things like when you're 110 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,680 when you're in a, when you're in mile 18, you're like, Oh yeah, I 111 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:48,040 remember you as you're walking by. 112 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:50,600 Something like like is it, is it something that's that that's 113 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:53,400 bored its way into you now? Oh 100% yeah. 114 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:55,800 The there's nothing like the Boston Marathon. 115 00:05:56,040 --> 00:06:02,320 It is a 26.2 mile tailgate party and like the, the and the big 116 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:04,640 thing is like you're looking for the Citgo sign. 117 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:06,880 So if you know Boston and the Citgo sign, it's kind of like 118 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:08,440 this, you know, national treasure. 119 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:11,560 And when you see that, like you know, you did it and that's when 120 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:13,400 you get all, that's when I get all emotional. 121 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:17,960 And that's when you know, like the end is near, which is, which 122 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:19,560 is great. But at the same time, you still 123 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:22,680 have to be careful because I've seen plenty people collapse in 124 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:27,520 that last couple of miles. And I've run in every possible 125 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:29,720 weather scenario you can imagine. 126 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:31,840 I've run in when it was in the 80s. 127 00:06:32,280 --> 00:06:34,680 I've run when it was like sleeting and snowing. 128 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:37,640 I've run when it was like 20-30 mile an hour of wind that was 129 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:39,720 just hitting you in the face and beating you to death. 130 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:44,600 And I ran in 2013 when 2 bombs went off. 131 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:47,920 I was actually right there when the second bomb had gone off. 132 00:06:48,280 --> 00:06:53,880 And you know, that was WTF my wife and kids were at the finish 133 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:56,240 line. So that was like a whole thing 134 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:59,720 and not something you usually forget, which I still get 135 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:03,120 emotional about. And you know, like it's, it's, 136 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:08,200 it's one of those life enhancing things that I think if you can 137 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:12,200 do, you should. And something that I don't know 138 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:15,360 that I'll ever stop doing. I am one of those guys that 139 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:19,840 like, I run up on like the 70 plus year old men and stop and 140 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:23,040 talk to them or walk and talk to them or jog and talk to them and 141 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:25,360 find out like, you know their story or how many have you done? 142 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:27,600 Like how old are you? Like, how many is this for you? 143 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:31,200 And, and they're so inspiring, you know, 'cause like yesterday 144 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:34,640 I met a, a guy who was 78 and this was his 22nd. 145 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:37,920 And he says how I'm struggling. I'm like, well, I'm a struggling 146 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:41,440 too, brother, you know, and another guy, it was his 70th. 147 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:45,680 He well, I'm sorry, he, he is 70 years old and this was his 28th. 148 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:49,600 And so I figured out in my head, well, at my age, if I can get to 149 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:52,240 70 years old, I will be one behind him. 150 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:55,160 I will be 27. Wow. 151 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:59,840 You just you, you just did a beautiful, beautiful metaphor as 152 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:02,240 to why he changed it exists in the 1st place like you're in 153 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:05,880 this, you're in this race, you know, it's legendary race, big, 154 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:09,200 big, big time thing. But the way you view it, the way 155 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:12,640 that you just articulated, it's like a community and, and, and 156 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:16,720 the idea that as you're going through this together, this 157 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:21,040 struggle, this intense physical, mental, emotional struggle, all 158 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:24,640 the things are, are, are, are, are, are churned up, especially 159 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:26,520 when you're running compromise or you're, you're, you're doing 160 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:28,560 it compromised. And you're talking to these guys 161 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:32,120 that have been around for a lot longer, you know, you know, 162 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:34,559 they've had, they've had a lot more revolutions around the sun 163 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:40,520 and, and here you are, you know, iron sharpening iron. 164 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,159 And, and then that's what you're doing with them as you're moving 165 00:08:43,159 --> 00:08:44,360 forward. You're finding out they're in 166 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:45,800 the struggle, you're in the struggle. 167 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:49,440 And yet it what it does is that commonality, that community 168 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:54,480 gives you a different type of momentum moving forward and 169 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:56,640 insight moving forward. That's exactly what he changed. 170 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:58,400 It's all about really at the end of the day. 171 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:01,920 And don't we all need that? You're making me emotional. 172 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:07,320 Yeah, that's what it is. It's a beautiful thing. 173 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:11,920 I see you at 75 running it talking to a dude who's 57 at 174 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:14,840 that point, you know, the 57 year olds, like I just turned 50 175 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:15,920 not that long ago. We think we got it. 176 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,160 We think we got things figured out because we can use the 177 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:20,840 perspective to think about the 25 year old self and what a fool 178 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:25,080 we were at that point. And yet here you're going to be, 179 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:27,360 you know, 20 years down the line, you'll be able to do that 180 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:29,240 to a 57 year old. I just think it's a beautiful 181 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:31,080 experience. And that's, that's exactly what 182 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:33,440 he changed. It's all about just and I so I 183 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:35,680 appreciate you opening up about that and congratulations on 184 00:09:35,680 --> 00:09:39,120 doing it again, man. And, and the fact that it's as 185 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:41,720 you get older, the tradition is just going to deepen as opposed 186 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:44,840 to, you know, being able to use what many people would call as a 187 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:46,920 very valid excuses say, well, I'm getting too old for this 188 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:48,880 stuff. But but you're not going to do 189 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:50,000 that. You're you're, you're leaning 190 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:54,400 into it. More my girls have been 191 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:57,440 attending since they were like 3:00 and 5:00. 192 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:01,280 My wife pushed my daughter's around in a double stroller. 193 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:04,000 Back then it was like two or three different spots of the 194 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:06,920 race, which meant she like, she packed them up, drove to one 195 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:12,360 spot, then to the other. Now, like they're 17 and 20 and 196 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:15,520 they're right there every single time, holding signs, the whole 197 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:17,520 thing. It's good. 198 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:20,600 Have either of them ever expressed the idea that they 199 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:25,480 might do it with you? So my my 20 year old ran when 200 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:28,360 she turned 18. It was her first. 201 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:31,240 She hasn't run since she she probably will. 202 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:33,520 Yesterday she mentioned probably running her senior year of 203 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:36,680 college. She's the one that said to me 204 00:10:36,680 --> 00:10:41,600 years ago that of all the holidays, Patriots Day, which is 205 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,480 the marathon Monday, is her favorite holiday. 206 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:49,080 Seems to me like she's going to join you at some point. 207 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:51,560 Eventually, yeah. Yeah. 208 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:54,760 Oh, that's a beautiful, beautiful thing to switch gears. 209 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:57,560 So, so you, so you've you've you've been doing the Boston 210 00:10:57,560 --> 00:10:59,360 Marathon for a long time. How long you been API? 211 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:04,160 So I, I was in the business of, of pride investigations for 212 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:07,640 probably five years, which is an interesting business. 213 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:09,640 You know, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're 214 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:13,120 essentially following people around and, and doing studies on 215 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:16,080 a research on people that are up to no good. 216 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:20,440 And that has a level of burnout to it. 217 00:11:20,680 --> 00:11:23,880 You know, like being a law enforcement officer has a level 218 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:27,320 of burnout to it, right, Due to the fact that like, you're kind 219 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:32,240 of like at a level dealing with, you know, a, a, a, a, a, a 220 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:37,920 certain personality type that grates on you and, and can mess 221 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:41,520 with your happy zone. So I did that for five years, 222 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:43,640 and I learned an awful lot about the human condition during that 223 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:47,560 time. And prior to and since then, 224 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:51,240 I've been engaged primarily in what we would call security 225 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:53,960 awareness training, which is getting in front of audiences 226 00:11:53,960 --> 00:12:00,680 both in person and virtually on managing risk, which means 227 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:04,640 understanding sociopaths, psychopaths, you know, hardcore 228 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:08,040 narcissists, those who don't experience empathy, sympathy, 229 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:11,680 guilt or remorse, you know, humans that truly have no shame. 230 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:15,960 OK, either through nature or nurture, you know how however 231 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:20,000 they would be diagnosed and, and what their motivations are and 232 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:23,760 how they choose their victims. So I'm still dealing with that 233 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:29,520 element to a degree and reverse engineering their processes and 234 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:35,880 how again, you know, we as the good essentially the 97% cause 235 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:39,840 I've come to the conclusion that about 3% of humans, they say 236 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:44,680 about 3% of men, I'm sorry, 3% of women and about 6% of men 237 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:50,400 experience being sociopaths or psychopaths and were diagnosed. 238 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:53,920 And that, you know, how they choose their victims and and 239 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:57,360 what we need to do to become the tougher target is primarily how 240 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:01,720 I spend my days today. Well, good Lord, I mean, the the 241 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:04,520 the onion is so deep on everything that you just talked 242 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:05,880 about there. I want to unpack it a little 243 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:06,960 bit. One of the questions I was going 244 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:10,000 to ask you, you did you did go down that path a little bit 245 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:13,320 knowing the percentages. That's great. 246 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:16,120 The percentages is good. And I'm certain it's something 247 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:18,560 that you can, you know, kind of hold onto knowing that it is 248 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:21,560 really relatively that low. That being said, when you 249 00:13:21,560 --> 00:13:25,920 immerse yourself in behaviors of that type and you see these 250 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:29,560 sorts of things, my question for you is, did it, did it jade you 251 00:13:29,560 --> 00:13:33,920 about humanity in itself or, or were you able to see all of that 252 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:36,400 and realize how much good there was out there? 253 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:40,600 You know, despite these, I don't want to say bad apples. 254 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:42,200 I don't want to try and be judgmental when it comes to 255 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:43,840 that. It's, it's, you know, there are 256 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:46,360 sociopaths out there that can experience good lives and they, 257 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:47,960 and they can be productive members of society. 258 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:51,080 I, I, I read a stat not that long ago about surgeons and how 259 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:55,200 many surgeons have that ability to be performers at that level. 260 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,600 And part of the reason is, is because many of them have dialed 261 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:01,680 down when it comes to empathy. But that being said, the ones 262 00:14:01,680 --> 00:14:05,440 you were seeing were certainly, certainly not in that category. 263 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:08,480 Whether you're doing the private investigating or you're doing 264 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:11,560 security to protect protect against, you're seeing a lot of 265 00:14:11,560 --> 00:14:15,240 this stuff. Did it jade you towards humanity 266 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:20,000 in itself? So I am a definitely a glass 267 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:23,440 half full guy. I'm an internal optimist and I 268 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,040 do choose to see the good in in everyone. 269 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:28,960 And I'm still to this very day surprised when people are just 270 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:31,000 so mean. I had somebody yesterday that 271 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:34,880 was very mean to me and it it always is surprising to me. 272 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:38,400 And I'm also a believer. I'm a believer in karma too. 273 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:41,160 Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. That it always comes back to get 274 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:42,640 people. Not that that's what I want. 275 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:44,920 I just know that, you know, karma has a way of evening 276 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:52,560 things out and you know, I, I, I, I spend a lot of my time, 277 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:55,480 energy and effort thinking good thoughts and consuming good 278 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:59,160 information. And at the same time, I actively 279 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:05,120 try to shield myself from harmful, consuming information, 280 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:07,200 you know, doom scrolling and such. 281 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:12,320 And so I'm always regulating in that regard. 282 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:19,120 I have been kind of, you know, upset or disappointed. 283 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:27,560 The past 10 years has, you know, been a lot to take. 284 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:32,840 And I'm, you know, a little disenfranchised as a result. 285 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:36,440 But at the same time, you know, I still have a lot of faith in 286 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:40,040 what's right. And the truth always, I think, 287 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:43,600 flows to the top as a result. I appreciate that. 288 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:46,880 I, I, you know, and, and I don't want to diminish what it is that 289 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:48,520 you have been doing and are doing. 290 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:52,840 And, and I mean, obviously you're a guy who at at the 291 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:54,960 highest expert level, I mean, you've been featured on all 292 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:58,280 sorts of very, very, very large platform, CNN and other, other, 293 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:01,720 other, other places talking about things like security, the 294 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,600 way the technology is developing so quickly. 295 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:09,120 I mean, my gosh, it's like, it's like holding a pinwheel into a 296 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:10,920 hurricane. It just feels like, you know, 297 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:14,280 it's, it's such a, you know, I read something and I mean, 298 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:16,520 again, I don't know, I don't know who to believe when it 299 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:18,560 comes to this stuff. But when it comes to AI and 300 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:21,880 things like that, you know, within a year, privacy will no 301 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:23,800 longer exist. It's just not going to happen 302 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:27,200 anymore. Is this, is this something that 303 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:31,280 is inevitable as we evolve as a species with technology, as it's 304 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:35,160 curious, I don't know what you'd even call it. 305 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:38,120 Like, like, you know, a curious aside, species that's developing 306 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:41,640 with us, is that a, is it a, is it a, is security one of those 307 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:43,840 things that is ever going? Are we going to get to a place 308 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:45,560 where security will still will never exist? 309 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:51,640 So, so privacy, I've been saying for 20 plus years, privacy is an 310 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,000 illusion. You know, it, it's, I don't know 311 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:59,240 the privacy truly exists since the Internet, Yeah, and I don't 312 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:03,440 know that it truly ever has, but since the Internet in the mid 313 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:06,240 90s, you know, privacy is quite an illusion. 314 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:10,440 That said, I personally am not too concerned about privacy. 315 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:12,400 Privacy has never been my first concern. 316 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:15,359 My first concern has always been security. 317 00:17:15,599 --> 00:17:19,040 And the difference between the two is privacy is, you know, 318 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:23,680 information that people have access to about you, whereas 319 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:30,200 security is information that people have access to about you. 320 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,960 And what harm they can or do with it. 321 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:37,720 That's my concern. My concern is how people use 322 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:42,760 that information to hurt or harm you either virtually or 323 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:44,400 physically. You know, whether they 324 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:48,280 physically hurt you or they virtually, you know, disparage 325 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:50,720 or steal from you, That's my concern. 326 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:55,240 And so I'm not so concerned that people have information about 327 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:57,560 me. My concern is like how they can 328 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:01,880 use that against me. And that's something that that I 329 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:05,560 think to a degree is manageable. And, and as long as you 330 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:09,720 understand that if you recognize risk in that manner and you do 331 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,600 something about the information that's out there about you 332 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:16,440 already to minimize that risk, then I then I think that that 333 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:20,280 kind of tampers down the friction and the worry and the 334 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:23,560 harm. And that's not a very difficult 335 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,800 thing to manage. Just most people don't because 336 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:30,120 they don't know what to do or they kind of develop a 337 00:18:30,120 --> 00:18:33,120 fatalistic attitude. Oh, you know, there's nothing I 338 00:18:33,120 --> 00:18:35,600 can do about it. And then actually there is, you 339 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,200 know, when it comes to security, there's so many things you can 340 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:43,320 do to become a tougher or hardened target, which most 341 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:46,560 people don't understand or recognize or do anything about. 342 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:51,080 And I serve to provide people with the information to make 343 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:52,320 sure that they can manage that risk. 344 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:54,280 They can become that tougher target. 345 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:58,960 And once you do that, it, I think it does a, a solid job of 346 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:05,760 like, you know, allowing you to manage your emotions revolving 347 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:09,480 around it too, 'cause I think in the end, like no matter how old 348 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:13,960 we are, we all want a certain amount of control over our 349 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,480 destiny, a certain amount of control over our lives. 350 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:20,840 And, and control can be a certain illusion too, but there 351 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:24,360 is a degree of control that we can gain over our lives. 352 00:19:24,360 --> 00:19:26,640 Like you put your seat belt on, not because you worry, not 353 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,120 because you live in fair, because it gives you control 354 00:19:29,120 --> 00:19:32,720 over the vehicle should somebody swerve in front of you, a dare 355 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:35,240 run out in front of you, whatever the case is over that 356 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:38,960 vehicle keeping you tight in the driver's seat so you can manage 357 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:40,560 the steering wheel and the gas and the brakes. 358 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:44,360 And that's all security truly is, is just, you know, tools to 359 00:19:44,360 --> 00:19:47,920 give you control. And so not too worried about 360 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:50,200 privacy, concerned about security. 361 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:53,320 And I think that like there's so much that we can and should do 362 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:57,800 to manage that risk. Well, I just, I, I so articulate 363 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:00,560 and I just appreciate the fact it's, it's, it's clear, you know 364 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:03,360 why you are, you know, such a renowned, powerful speaker when 365 00:20:03,360 --> 00:20:05,440 it comes to this stuff, because you have the ability to simplify 366 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:06,920 things. Those distinctions are amazing. 367 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:08,960 The, the, the distinction in privacy and security. 368 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:11,040 That's, that's fantastic. I appreciate you making that 369 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:13,560 distinction right there. And, and you know, that's, 370 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:16,920 that's I'm also an optimist when it comes to I, I am, I, I see 371 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:18,600 the world. You know, sometimes I've been, 372 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:20,400 I've been told that I see, I've got the glass. 373 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,920 Quarters full, you know, despite there being no liquid in there. 374 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:25,960 That's how I view things. And, and, and I believe that we 375 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,080 are supposed to be the best, whatever you want to call it, 376 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:32,400 best stewards of responsibility that we're in that we have power 377 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:33,800 over. And if something happens that 378 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:36,400 changes the game, well, that's out of our control. 379 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:38,000 But we did the best that we could. 380 00:20:38,360 --> 00:20:41,960 I love you talking about the idea of the seat belt as well. 381 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:46,000 That's a very, very simple way. It's a simple metaphor to 382 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:51,920 describe, you know, things that we can do to help protect 383 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:54,160 ourselves. Again, your your, your 384 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:58,280 perspective, your point of view is a very, it's a very unique, 385 00:20:58,360 --> 00:21:00,200 unique is unique. It's a unique one. 386 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:03,680 I would love to dive into that a little bit. 387 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:07,000 What are some of the seatbelts that we don't even know about 388 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,120 that we could put on very, very easily that you tell people? 389 00:21:09,120 --> 00:21:11,880 What are some of the, the low hanging fruit things that we 390 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:15,120 could do to harden ourselves? I assume that people who go 391 00:21:15,120 --> 00:21:17,560 after folks are the ones who are going to go after the low 392 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:19,440 hanging fruit. That's why we hear so many, you 393 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,400 know, elders falling for, for, for, for different types of 394 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:23,640 scams and things like that, right? 395 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,680 It's low hanging fruit in some ways, very easy to manipulate, 396 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:30,840 very easy to get access to for somebody out there who's got a 397 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:33,360 family, you know, they want to protect their family. 398 00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:35,800 There's a lot of dads who listen to this podcast, obviously, 399 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:37,480 right? And and, and you know, we're 400 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:39,480 going through what we go through as men, but then there's also 401 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:41,800 the struggle of being a parent. What's some of that? 402 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:44,400 What's some of the easier things the seatbelts that we can put on 403 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:48,200 that maybe we don't know about? So I tell everyone that like, I 404 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:53,360 can make pretty much anyone in the top 10% of secure humans or 405 00:21:53,360 --> 00:21:55,920 secure Americans. Wow, it really isn't that 406 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:59,960 difficult because I know that like 90% of us are doing almost 407 00:21:59,960 --> 00:22:04,440 nothing and that as long as you engage like 5 different things, 408 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:08,120 then you're in that top 10%. And so like, for example, I get 409 00:22:08,120 --> 00:22:09,960 in front of a live audience and I query them. 410 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:13,200 I asked them questions. My, my job is to change a 411 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:15,680 security culture. It's a challenge people's belief 412 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,760 systems because what people believe of what security is 413 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:21,560 versus what it isn't is, is diametrically different. 414 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:25,040 And it all kind of goes back to when we're kids and there's all 415 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:26,520 these like variables there, right? 416 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,680 So one of the first questions I asked people is like, so how 417 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:33,560 many of you could honestly say you're using a different 418 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,120 passcode across all your critical accounts, uppercase, 419 00:22:37,120 --> 00:22:40,240 lowercase numbers, characters across each critical account, 420 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:41,720 different passcode across each account. 421 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,720 If I get 10 to 15% of my audience to raise their hand 422 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,680 using a different passcode, that's a lot, which means, like, 423 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:54,520 you know, 10 to 15 to 20% are not like that's 80 plus to 90% 424 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,880 of the general public is using the same passcode across every 425 00:22:57,880 --> 00:22:58,880 account. Yeah. 426 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,640 What most people don't realize is like on the dark web, there's 427 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:07,520 like between 15 and 20 billion of our passwords on the dark 428 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:12,600 web, OK, There's been like 300 billion records compromised in 429 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:18,040 the past, you know, 20 years. So of that 300 billion records, 430 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:20,640 like 1520 billion of them are passwords. 431 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:26,280 So bad guys, today, they don't hack, they log in, OK, So just 432 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:30,400 logging in to your accounts because your username is right 433 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:32,840 there and your passcode is on the dark web. 434 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:38,080 So that one thing, changing up your passcodes using a password 435 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:42,320 manager, which less than 10% of society uses a password manager, 436 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,040 those two things right there, password managers and changing 437 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:49,120 up your passcodes, you're already doing better than 90% of 438 00:23:49,120 --> 00:23:51,480 the public. And then from there, two factor 439 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:55,480 authentication, which we all use to some degree, but I don't know 440 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:57,280 that we're all using it ubiquitously. 441 00:23:57,360 --> 00:24:01,600 Like I use it on everything, eBay, Amazon, PayPal, you name 442 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:03,440 it. So all my critical accounts have 443 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,840 two factor authentication, especially my e-mail, especially 444 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:10,640 in my e-mail, 'cause if they get into my e-mail, now they can get 445 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:14,160 into my bank account, they can get into my PayPal account, they 446 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:15,760 can get into my mobile phone account. 447 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,280 And if they can get into my mobile phone account, they can 448 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:20,960 swap out the SIM on my phone. OK. 449 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,760 And once they swap out the SIM in my phone, now they're in my 450 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:25,440 Coinbase account. Yep. 451 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:27,760 See how that works? Another act after my crypto. 452 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,000 So by setting up two factor authentication for everything 453 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,920 including e-mail, you're already light years ahead of most people 454 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,000 'cause 80 plus percent don't even use two factor 455 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,600 authentication for e-mail, which is like crazy to me. 456 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:43,800 It's that high. Oh my gosh, I, I, I can't 457 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:45,160 believe that. It's bad. 458 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,360 I use bad. I was terrified with the first 459 00:24:48,360 --> 00:24:50,520 one because it's like, OK, 'cause passwords. 460 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,880 It's one of those things where, you know, how do you like, how 461 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,720 do you do that across all these different platforms? 462 00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:58,520 And I've got business and I've got personal and all that. 463 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,720 So, yeah, I've truncated and used a few passwords for certain 464 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:03,760 things. So I was like, oh God, OK. 465 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,240 But the two factor is something I've always done. 466 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,440 And whenever I get the option to it, I'm like, oh, yes, please. 467 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,800 I, I, I, I'm excited to do that because it does feel, it does 468 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,600 feel proactive, by the way. And I, I, I, I think that that's 469 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,520 probably something that you, you, you, you, you probably do 470 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:21,800 touch on with people that when you are whatever it is to, to, 471 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,320 to make yourself a little bit more secure that you do get that 472 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:26,600 little dopamine rush of going, OK, I'm glad that I've done 473 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:28,160 this. Like I'm, I'm feeling a little 474 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,960 bit more prepared for things. But two factor is something I've 475 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,160 always done. OK, So 80 something percent of 476 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,000 people don't don't use two factor yet? 477 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:40,160 Yeah, so between password managers changing up your pass 478 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,120 codes, 2 factor authentication is 3. 479 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,560 And then like this is going to sound so basic to people, but 480 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:49,480 like I travel the country, speak to, you know, urban, suburban, 481 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:51,880 rural. So I asked the same questions, 482 00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:53,360 like how many of you lock your doors? 483 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:57,520 You know, and depending on where you live, like a rural, like I, 484 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,360 I, I work with Realtors all the time and lots of times like 485 00:26:00,360 --> 00:26:03,360 they're like, you know, we've, we sell houses, you know, after 486 00:26:03,360 --> 00:26:05,800 30 years, like the homeowner doesn't know where the keys to 487 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:07,600 the house are. They have, they have no idea. 488 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:11,000 Like there's no keys to like transfer the new owner, you 489 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,840 know, because people don't lock the doors because they feel safe 490 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,680 in their neighborhoods, which is great that you feel safe and you 491 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,240 should feel safe. And generally people are to a 492 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,280 degree. But like bad things happen 493 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:23,920 everywhere. And I don't say that like to 494 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,080 alarm people, but if you look at the local police blotter, bad 495 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:30,840 things happen, you know, and, and whenever you like, ask the 496 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:32,280 question. And I ask this question like 497 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:36,120 when, when you're watching the local news and something bad 498 00:26:36,120 --> 00:26:38,480 happens in a neighborhood and I'm, I'll ask you this question, 499 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,360 something bad happens in a neighborhood and the local news 500 00:26:41,360 --> 00:26:44,280 channel, you know, goes in and then with the camera person and 501 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,840 A and a microphone and they, they, they interview the 502 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:48,160 neighbor. They put the microphone on her 503 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,160 face. What does the neighbor always 504 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:51,920 say about what just happened that was bad? 505 00:26:54,120 --> 00:26:56,000 I never thought it would happen. I didn't think it would be that 506 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:57,040 person. I didn't think it would. 507 00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,920 There's just is just a kind of confusion and and surprise. 508 00:27:00,360 --> 00:27:01,560 I never thought it would happen here. 509 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:02,960 They always say the exact same thing. 510 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,560 Like to this very day, they always say the same thing and 511 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:07,800 they will always say the same thing. 512 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,120 Nobody ever wants to believe or think it's going to ever happen 513 00:27:10,120 --> 00:27:12,040 here. And so we kind of function at A 514 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,080 at a level of denial. And that leads me to my next 515 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,240 thing. So like the next question I ask 516 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:19,200 is like, how many of you actually like have a home 517 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:20,600 security system? You know? 518 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:24,160 And I asked that like, because there's like 1 to 2 million 519 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:26,440 homes that are burglarized in the US every single year. 520 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,200 Like 1 to 2 million every single year. 521 00:27:29,360 --> 00:27:31,680 It's just always been like that. And it'll always be like that. 522 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,960 And that means like in the next decade, that's like between 10 523 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,160 and 20 million homes burglarized. 524 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:39,000 And so I asked a series of questions. 525 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,800 OK, so how many of you like, you know, so, so why don't you have 526 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:47,520 the home security system, right? And like, like if, if, if 15% of 527 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:49,560 the room raises their hand that they have a home security 528 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,440 system, no matter where I am in the country, that's a lot, which 529 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,400 means 85% don't. Yeah. 530 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:57,200 And so the next questions are like, so why? 531 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:00,080 So if you don't have a home security system, like, why not? 532 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:02,640 And some of the answers are like, well, we don't have a home 533 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:07,040 security system because we have insurance, as if insurance is 534 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,080 going to protect you at 3:00 AM, Right. 535 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,320 And then the next most common answer is we don't have a home 536 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:16,320 security system because my husband says if they're going to 537 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:17,440 break in, they're going to break in. 538 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:21,880 What are we going to do? I would divorce that guy, to be 539 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:26,680 honest with you, right, because that's a fatalist attitude, you 540 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,720 know, and like I, I'm not cool with the fatalism when it comes 541 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:31,120 to security. Like, why bother? 542 00:28:31,120 --> 00:28:32,640 If they're going to break in, they're going to break in. 543 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,640 Like, you know, I got a why if I got kids, like I'm going to do 544 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,480 what I can. What's with within my control, 545 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:40,640 within my budget to tighten things up? 546 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:44,520 Even if you get a, a, you know, this house protected by ADT off 547 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,720 a, you know, eBay, like you're already like ahead of your 548 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,440 neighbor who doesn't have that sign layers of protection, you 549 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:52,320 know, like do something, don't do nothing. 550 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,400 And then the most common answer I get is we don't have a home 551 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,280 security system because I don't want to live like that. 552 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:02,800 I don't want to live in fear. I don't want to have to worry. 553 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:08,000 I don't want to be paranoid. They say, which turns out that 554 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:12,120 like most people when it comes to security, they look security 555 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,840 as kind of a bad thing. Security to most people is about 556 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,720 paranoia, and they think it's about fear and worry. 557 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,880 And people literally say we don't have a home security 558 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:24,880 system because I don't want to live in fear. 559 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,160 I don't want to be paranoid. Right. 560 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,640 Which is people's complete misconception, misunderstanding 561 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,200 of what security actually is. Like you don't put your seat 562 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,040 belt on because you're paranoid. You put it on because it's a 563 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:39,760 smart thing to do. It gives you control. 564 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:41,840 You don't install a home security system because it's 565 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,560 going to make you worry. Like how technology could do 566 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:46,520 that, I don't know. But like, that's what people 567 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,280 think. And so we have this very 568 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,240 unhealthy relationship with security that it's like 569 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,120 paranoia, which, you know, I'm sure, you know, like paranoia is 570 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,080 a diagnosable mental health issue. 571 00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:00,240 It's not, it's not like a true thing that people get when they 572 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,840 engage in security practices. I don't have security practices 573 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,000 because I look over my shoulder and I worry all day long. 574 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,800 I do it because, you know, I want a degree of control over 575 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,840 the results. And that means like I have a 576 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,280 number of systems in place, layers of protection to like, 577 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:18,880 you know, make my house look like a tougher target. 578 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:20,880 Therefore they're going to go target somebody else. 579 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,040 And so my job is to change the security culture and get people 580 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:27,760 to wake, wake up and realize you do have actually a significant 581 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,080 degree of control or whether or not you are chosen. 582 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,560 And if you do these basic things, they're going to move on 583 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:35,320 to somebody else. I mean, unfortunately move on to 584 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:37,880 somebody else. But that's just like what we do. 585 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:40,240 And understanding and recognizing risk means just 586 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,480 taking action. I love, I, I love this. 587 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:45,160 There's a lot of guys who are listening to this. 588 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,040 And I mean, you know, when you're a guy, you've got that 589 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:52,920 many of us, if not most, if not all of us have that, that primal 590 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:55,680 thing that's inside. It's that instinct, the, the, 591 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,160 you know, the, the reptile brain part of that. 592 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:02,040 We need to protect what's ours or protect our family, etcetera, 593 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,680 etcetera, protect those who are in our tribe, whatever that that 594 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,920 is, we have that. Then you marry that to the idea 595 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:10,720 of think about it. If you think of somebody, I, I, 596 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:14,680 I saw some security camera footage not that long ago of, of 597 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:18,360 some car thieves. And like the car thieves were 598 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:21,840 literally going down the row of cars and they were looking to 599 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:24,240 see what doors were unlocked. Whichever door was unlocked, 600 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,720 that was the one that they gave some attention to the car, the 601 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,040 one that was locked moved on like the most, like you're 602 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:32,800 talking about the most basic of the basic thing is just to lock 603 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,120 the door, right? And, and so, but then to go back 604 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:37,840 to something else you said is managing emotions. 605 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,000 And it's very interesting because I know the career path, 606 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:41,840 like as we've talked a little bit about your history and 607 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:46,040 things like that. It's it's one thing to know the 608 00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:50,640 stats and the things to do and, and, and, and what logically 609 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:52,720 makes sense, the common sense. It's one thing to know that. 610 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,520 But then like when you really come down to it, you're managing 611 00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,000 people's emotions is what you're doing is, yeah, you're teaching 612 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,240 this stuff. But figuring out how people 613 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:06,080 think and and finding the spots where our common sense is 614 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,400 actually the opposite of what common sense actually is, is 615 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,160 something that you have to kind of recognize and then 616 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,520 communicate to somebody to bring them back into that right frame 617 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:17,760 of mind. I'm I'm challenging belief 618 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:19,680 systems is what I'm doing. There you go. 619 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:21,640 Yep. We've all grown up with certain 620 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:26,560 belief systems, and those belief systems are how we function. 621 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:31,000 You know, we, we, we are, are, we function based on what our 622 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,440 beliefs are. We make decisions based on what 623 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:38,080 our beliefs are. And I, I certainly function 624 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,640 based on what my beliefs are too, but I choose to function 625 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:45,840 based on what the facts are. And that is always just made a 626 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,080 little bit more analytical sense to me. 627 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,320 And yeah, I have my beliefs, I have my choices. 628 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:55,920 But there's, there's, there's a lot more, you know, if you throw 629 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,520 a lot more common sense into it and you and you and you 630 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:06,040 challenge, you know, what is common beliefs, then all of a 631 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:10,240 sudden you kind of like unpack certain things that we've been 632 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:12,880 conditioned to think over the course of our lives. 633 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:17,360 And all of a sudden, like, if it doesn't make any sense to think 634 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,040 the way you've been thinking. And what security awareness 635 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:23,120 training is, it's what it's designed to do is certainly 636 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:27,280 provide awareness about risk. But what I do is what I call 637 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:31,280 security appreciation training, which essentially challenges 638 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:35,080 people's belief systems about what risk actually is, what 639 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:38,200 security actually is, and, and kind of turn them around to 640 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:43,000 understand what security actually does and what its role 641 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:46,080 is in your life. And ultimately you go from 642 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:49,840 awareness, which is head based to appreciation to appreciating 643 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:51,680 security, which I think is heart based. 644 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,920 And when you appreciate someone or something like it's on a 645 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,120 deeper level, like it means something and matters a lot more 646 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:00,800 to you based on it just being from the neck up. 647 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,640 When it's from the heart up, it's like, oh, that actually has 648 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,960 impact on me, impact on my life, impact on my family, impact on 649 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,239 my business, impact on the people that I touch. 650 00:34:09,639 --> 00:34:15,120 And that's in order to change minds, you need to change 651 00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:17,360 hearts. And so that's what I do. 652 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,520 I, I provide security appreciation training. 653 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,360 And before you know it, like when I walk into a room and I'm 654 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,719 hired by a, a chief information security officer, they're 655 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:29,280 bringing me in, not just to make people more aware because they 656 00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,719 already engage in like what's called fishing simulation 657 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:35,280 training, which is like a, which is like a, like, a, like a, like 658 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:37,719 a security awareness training that teaches you about fishing, 659 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,920 you know, and, and then, and they do that like once a year 660 00:34:41,199 --> 00:34:43,000 and they call them me when they're like, kind of, you know, 661 00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:44,800 like behind the gun. And they're like, listen, we 662 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:46,639 just want our people to care about security. 663 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,239 We just want them to care. Like, how do you make them care? 664 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:54,600 You know, and making people care about security is understanding 665 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:58,120 that all security is personal and security begins with you, 666 00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,400 you know, like it like in people protect what they love. 667 00:35:01,720 --> 00:35:05,160 People will, you know, engage in security practices if they 668 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:06,800 recognize it. Like, oh, this is about my 669 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,760 child's digital footprint. This is about my identity. 670 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:11,560 This is about my Social Security number. 671 00:35:11,720 --> 00:35:15,920 This is about protecting my bank account, you know, so I speak to 672 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,880 it from that perspective. And so when I walk in the room, 673 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:21,520 I'm looking at 100 people that are like, they have their arms 674 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:23,400 crossed. They're looking at at me with a 675 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,520 scowl and let you they're looking at me like, OK, security 676 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:29,120 guy, tell me something I don't already know, You know, like, 677 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,080 and here we are like to protect the company. 678 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,680 And as I begin to ask them all of these like challenging 679 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:38,080 questions and pointing out, like, you know, 20 million homes 680 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:39,680 are burglarized in the next decade. 681 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,640 There's, you know, 20 billion passwords in the dark web. 682 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:44,680 And it kind of opened them up to like, here are your 683 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,120 vulnerabilities. And then start talking about 684 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,840 what they can do in their own personal lives to manage their 685 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,360 own digital risks. Then, then all of a sudden, like 686 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:55,240 the, the, the arms begin to go down by their side. 687 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,640 They physically like kind of lean into the conversation. 688 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:00,640 Their eyes kind of open up a little bit. 689 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,480 The scowl goes away. And, and what happens is like 690 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,720 their, their hands begin to go up because now they have 691 00:36:06,720 --> 00:36:08,680 questions. Now they want to know. 692 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,760 Now they're curious like, Oh, this isn't about my company, 693 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:13,960 It's about me. Like I've always had questions 694 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:15,760 about this stuff. I want to know like, what do I 695 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:19,080 got to do to protect my child's digital footprint, my, my own 696 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:22,080 identity, my bank account, Like how this is how I manage my, I 697 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:25,000 didn't know that you could just use a password banner. 698 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:26,960 I was always worried that they would just get hacked. 699 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,640 And all of a sudden, like they have an opportunity to ask an 700 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,720 expert that's been doing this in 30 plus years on how to do this 701 00:36:32,720 --> 00:36:35,240 in their own lives. Now they want to know because we 702 00:36:35,240 --> 00:36:40,360 are a humans are a selfish self interested creature, right? 703 00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:44,120 And so we want to know what's in it for me first. 704 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,840 And that and being selfish actually isn't actually a bad 705 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,400 thing. Selfish gets a bad rap. 706 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,640 But like when you are on the airplane and the flight 707 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,280 attendant is providing instructions about the oxygen 708 00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:59,680 mask, what does he or she tell you to do first? 709 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:02,840 You. Put yours on 1st actually. 710 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:05,600 Push on. Exactly. 711 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,520 Put yours on first because be like, why? 712 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:12,120 Because you are ineffective unless you take care of yourself 713 00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:17,800 first in so many ways, and that primarily begins with your 714 00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:21,400 mental health. You are much more effective to 715 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,000 all those around you if you take good care of yourself first. 716 00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,200 In, in in. Being selfish might mean getting 717 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:30,960 a good night's sleep, consuming, you know, fluids and foods, 718 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:33,240 taking care of your mental health. 719 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:36,520 Like it it's all hand in hand, taking care of your security. 720 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:40,400 Like without all these things in order, like how are you supposed 721 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:46,760 to be a good spouse, a good father, a good human if like 722 00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:51,240 you're always like, like just at a disadvantage, like if you're 723 00:37:51,240 --> 00:37:55,560 always playing catch up, you know, So I, I speak to security 724 00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:59,320 in that regard so that people see like it is, it is a very 725 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:03,880 holistic approach to managing our digital and physical lives 726 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:08,680 with security and everything else will also fall into place 727 00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:12,920 if you're thinking holistically in regards to all aspects of 728 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:16,880 being a better human. Oh, man, you, you said a whole 729 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:20,000 bunch of things there that we use the airplane analogy on here 730 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,720 a lot because there's a lot of guys out there who, you know, 731 00:38:23,720 --> 00:38:27,240 well-intentioned perhaps, but erode erroneously. 732 00:38:27,240 --> 00:38:30,000 So, you know, they, they, they literally give and give and give 733 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:31,400 and give and give. They give to their family. 734 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:33,880 They, they, all they want to do is just just just give. 735 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:37,040 But unfortunately it empties their tank because they're not, 736 00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,360 they're constantly feeding, but never getting fed and they're 737 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:42,680 not putting things back into their tank again. 738 00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:46,280 That gets them to the place where they can provide even even 739 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,440 an even more effective way for their family or, or, or 740 00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:50,920 whatever. And we have this thing where we 741 00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:54,360 put ourselves many times last and, and, and you know what we 742 00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:56,440 got to come up with a, with a, with a, with a better word. 743 00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:59,360 But it's like it's self-care really at the end of the day, 744 00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:01,360 it's not selfish, it's self-care. 745 00:39:01,720 --> 00:39:04,400 And, and that includes all of the things, you know, it's as, 746 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:09,040 as I think about, you know, my father, his generation was the 747 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:11,600 baby boomers and the father of before that, you know, the Bob 748 00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:13,000 Hope generation, the depression kids. 749 00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:20,800 And the idea of protecting your land has changed so much in two 750 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,200 generations. But if you were to go back to my 751 00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:26,560 great grandfather and, and, and ask him how important it was to 752 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:30,240 protect his land, protect his family, I mean, 10 out of 10 753 00:39:30,240 --> 00:39:32,360 important. And it was certainly a lot of 754 00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:37,480 things that I don't do for my family today, yet I still do 755 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:41,760 have that same instinct. But we don't know what we don't 756 00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:43,880 know. And it seems like you're the guy 757 00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:48,760 that is really able to teach people about the things that 758 00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:50,280 they don't even know that they don't know. 759 00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:53,000 And, and and I'm certain that when you, when you, when you 760 00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:55,320 meet with people, I'm I'm I'm sure you're info tastic and you 761 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:57,960 throw out some of these statistics and, and, and the 762 00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:00,800 information alone is what people start making certain people want 763 00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,160 to draw in and they want to hear what you have to say and see 764 00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:04,800 what you, what you, what you know. 765 00:40:05,720 --> 00:40:09,240 It's important what you're doing and, and, and, and the part that 766 00:40:09,240 --> 00:40:13,080 I am blown away by is you're not just doing it with stats, you're 767 00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:16,080 doing it with heart. And I know like, like, you know, 768 00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:18,280 going through a little bit of your background and what we've 769 00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,920 talked about here before we hit the record light, you know, you, 770 00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,120 you, you evolved to get to this place. 771 00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:26,360 And, and, and I want to talk about Protect now. 772 00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:30,000 I, I, I want to get into that, but I want to get into the guy 773 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:35,080 who built Protect now a little bit before we actually get to 774 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,400 it. Because your experience is part 775 00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:39,960 of what's LED you to being so thoughtful with what it is that 776 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:44,920 you're doing. Yeah, my SO a couple things, 777 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:48,120 like first, when I get off the platform 100% of the time, 778 00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:51,640 someone always asks me, you know, like, so how did you get 779 00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:53,040 into this? What do you, like former law 780 00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:55,960 enforcement, FBICIA, Secret Service? 781 00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:59,880 Like, what are you government, you know, police Like what what 782 00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:00,880 what's your deal? You know? 783 00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,520 And I tell them like I, I literally am from the streets of 784 00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:06,680 Boston. Like that's how I got my chops. 785 00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:09,480 I've been doing what I do since I was a young teen. 786 00:41:10,720 --> 00:41:17,280 For me, it all started off like when I was 12, my dad, you know, 787 00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:19,880 I'm 57. So when we were kids, like our 788 00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:23,040 parents would open up the door at 6/7, 8:00 in the morning, let 789 00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:25,320 us out and say be back, you know, for dinner time. 790 00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:29,480 We'd come back 6/7, 8:00 at night, bloodied and beaten and 791 00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:35,040 bruised and scarred and cut up and filthy and, and here we are. 792 00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:38,200 We, we made it, you know, Which is amazing 'cause there's no 793 00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:41,120 reason why I should be alive. No trackers, no cell phones of 794 00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:43,320 any kind, no ways of, you know, Yep. 795 00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:48,120 Doing 120 miles an hour and a 70 Nova on, you know, on route one. 796 00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:50,720 Like how I'm alive, I have no idea. 797 00:41:50,720 --> 00:41:53,560 But we survived it. I'm not recommending any of that 798 00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:55,280 to anybody. I'm just saying, right? 799 00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:59,240 That said like at 12 years old down, my father would let us go 800 00:41:59,240 --> 00:42:02,600 into downtown Boston, get on the train and one time like we get 801 00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:04,840 off the train and there's like 5 kids waiting for us on the 802 00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:05,880 street. Like they were waiting for 803 00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:08,640 anybody and they mugged us. They mugged me and my my little 804 00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:10,680 brother who was eight. They took all our money. 805 00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:13,960 And that kind of woke me up to like bad actors. 806 00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:17,880 And my dad when we go home explains to us, OK, so those 807 00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:20,280 boys today, they were the predators and you were there 808 00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:22,360 prey. They were part of that. 809 00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:27,600 You know that 3% like the wolves and the lions and again, it's 810 00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:30,320 natural and it's normal and they choose their victims and you 811 00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:33,400 need to become a tougher target. And so we started taking karate 812 00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:37,200 and kickboxing and. And a year later, I meet like a 813 00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:40,600 girl who at summer camp who I liked and she liked me like my 814 00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:42,800 first crush. I remember I was like, kind of 815 00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:46,680 holding hands in the bus. Mind you, you know, I was 13. 816 00:42:46,720 --> 00:42:49,280 And this is like, we're going on like 40 something years ago. 817 00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:51,280 Kids didn't. OK. 818 00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:53,440 So. So we get off the bus and we get 819 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:54,440 out. We're sitting on our front 820 00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:56,800 stairs one day. And she says to me, kind of 821 00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:00,120 solemn looking at me. And she says, I think you should 822 00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:03,240 know. My mother's boyfriend assaulted 823 00:43:03,240 --> 00:43:06,360 me. And I knew what she was saying 824 00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:09,840 was bad by the way she said it. I didn't quite understand it, 825 00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:12,320 though. So shortly afterwards, I go 826 00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:13,480 home. I asked my dad. 827 00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:17,280 I'm like, dad, what is sex and what is rape? 828 00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:20,520 So I learned about the birds of the bees and sexual assault in 829 00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:22,320 the same conversation at 13 years old. 830 00:43:22,720 --> 00:43:24,960 Again, we didn't know what sex was back then. 831 00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:28,280 We didn't have the Internet. We didn't know we didn't have 832 00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:30,480 porn. Like we didn't even have VHS 833 00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:32,520 yet, you know, like, we didn't have any of that stuff. 834 00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:38,040 And so, like, if anything, we found a Playboy in the trash on 835 00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:40,800 the way to school. Like, that's how you or, or in 836 00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:43,880 your grandfather's closet, you know, snooping around, like you 837 00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:49,200 didn't know about that stuff. And so I learned about sexual 838 00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:51,840 assault, birds and the bees. And now I've been a victim of a 839 00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:53,880 multiple attack situation. A year earlier. 840 00:43:54,240 --> 00:43:56,320 I meet my first victim of sexual assault. 841 00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:00,560 And yeah, multiple attack situation, sexual assault. 842 00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:02,760 And now, like, my view of the world is very different than 843 00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:04,000 most kids. Yeah. 844 00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:07,080 And so over the years, I started gravitating towards professions 845 00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:11,640 revolving around security. In my mid 20s, I was teaching 846 00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:14,680 real estate agents personal protection because Realtors are 847 00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:19,400 murdered in the US And so that was my thing. 848 00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:20,880 That's how I made my living back then. 849 00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:26,200 And I had a small, I had an IBMII, got my first computer in 850 00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:30,040 95, which was an IBM PS1 consultant, which is the make 851 00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:34,000 and model of a Windows 3 O operating system with 150 852 00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:38,120 megabyte hard drive. And I had a dial up connection 853 00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:40,800 to a Oli, had to buy a separate card to be able to connect to 854 00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:41,960 the Internet. Yeah. 855 00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:45,720 And I got hacked and I had the ability to accept credit cards 856 00:44:45,720 --> 00:44:48,320 over my computer and I lost thousands of dollars in credit 857 00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:50,480 card fraud. Oh my, Oh my. 858 00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:53,040 Gosh, and so I'm already teaching personal protection as 859 00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:56,280 relates to violence prevention and I get hacked. 860 00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:58,920 And so I didn't know that that was a thing. 861 00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:02,480 And so I was still responsible for that thousands of dollars of 862 00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:05,680 credit card fraud. And ultimately, like, as I began 863 00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:09,840 to understand that, I realized like, this is going to be huge 864 00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:12,560 because in the mid 90s, this happening to me. 865 00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:16,120 It can happen to anybody. And so over the years, identity 866 00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:17,680 theft started to become a big problem. 867 00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:21,520 Municipalities posting Social Security numbers on the Internet 868 00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:26,520 because, you know, why not? And ultimately, like new account 869 00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:30,240 fraud via identity theft, people opening up credit cards in their 870 00:45:30,240 --> 00:45:32,760 name became a problem in the late 90s. 871 00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,960 And so I'm talking about this stuff, speaking about this stuff 872 00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:40,440 to Realtors and others. And you know, at the same time, 873 00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:45,720 I'm still in my 20s, you know, and I was living like the frat 874 00:45:45,720 --> 00:45:49,520 boy life, not going to college, you know, I had my own multi 875 00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:54,360 family and you know, like, I wasn't the nicest person in the 876 00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:56,480 world. I wasn't like all that 877 00:45:56,480 --> 00:46:01,200 empathetic myself, ego driven, wanted like just control, 878 00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:04,560 control. And you know, like learned a lot 879 00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:07,600 of hard lessons. Most of my relationships back 880 00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:11,600 then were young women who were addicts and Alcoholics. 881 00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:13,040 And like, that's the life that I lived. 882 00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:16,280 Yeah. And I was codependent and I was 883 00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:18,640 like, real rough and tumble. And I spent a lot of my time in 884 00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:23,600 my 20s at AA and NA with those young women to get them help, 885 00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:26,760 you know, Like I was just, you know, all about the broken wing. 886 00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:30,920 And I got a lot of Girls Brew program. 887 00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:33,320 Robert, you're a people pleaser as well then, right? 888 00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:37,080 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's a, that's a, that's 889 00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:39,360 a crazy combination. Keep going, keep going. 890 00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:41,200 I just wanted to note that. Yeah. 891 00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:48,120 And but I learned that like, you know, the more control I wanted, 892 00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:51,880 the less control I got, right. And and the heart of my life 893 00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:54,880 became. And And so through things like 894 00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:58,520 Al Anon, which is like for codependence for people that are 895 00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:00,960 in relationships with either the family members or in 896 00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:04,400 relationship with addicts and Alcoholics that like if you 897 00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:07,800 don't recover, you repeat. Same thing with Alcoholics. 898 00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:09,200 If you don't recover, you repeat. 899 00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:14,960 And so I just kept repeating and finding more broken wings. 900 00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:20,480 And that meant, you know, eventually I crashed and burned, 901 00:47:20,720 --> 00:47:24,880 hit bottom a couple of times. And I think I was kind of lucky 902 00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:28,200 to do that in my 20s 'cause it really taught me humility. 903 00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:31,960 It taught me about my ego and how like, at that time it was 904 00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:36,360 like really ruining me. And, you know, I, I kind of 905 00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:41,720 softened up as a result, you know, and, and I became a lot 906 00:47:41,720 --> 00:47:46,880 more in tune with myself and others at a very early age as a 907 00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:50,360 result of crashing and burning, you know, all the shit that I 908 00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:53,640 went through, the fact that I don't have AIDS, the fact that 909 00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:57,920 like, I didn't, you know, die from all the stuff that I went 910 00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:00,760 through, like, it kind of really woke me up. 911 00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:06,200 And by my early 30s, I considered myself to be pretty 912 00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:09,440 conscious, you know, as a result of what I had gone through. 913 00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:11,480 And I don't know that a lot of people do that. 914 00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:13,400 I don't know a lot of people that experience that. 915 00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:18,200 And to this very day, I mean, especially for me, having kids, 916 00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:22,400 like truly, truly, truly for me with what I experienced in my 917 00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:25,280 20s and then having kids like, really, truly, like woke me up 918 00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:28,480 to a lot of things, you know, And so even today, like, I know, 919 00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:30,400 like the moment I think I know everything. 920 00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:35,000 I know nothing, you know, and I and I haven't known anything for 921 00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:38,480 decades, like at this point, you know, So I'm, I'm still 922 00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:40,880 learning, learning, learning, learning, learning and treat 923 00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:42,360 every day as a learning experience. 924 00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:44,200 I don't know how we got there, but that's. 925 00:48:44,240 --> 00:48:47,360 Yeah, No, no, no, no, I I can't. No, God, no, don't ever. 926 00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:50,360 The vulnerability is I appreciate it so, so much. 927 00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:51,680 There's a couple things out of that. 928 00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:55,280 First off, the idea that, you know, empathy can be not just 929 00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:58,400 learned but enhanced. You know, it wasn't that you 930 00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:00,760 weren't without empathy. It was that you never, you know, 931 00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:02,920 really focus on practicing it, in the power of it and how 932 00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:05,400 important it was. And then if you're doing it for 933 00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:07,840 a misguided, I don't want to say misguided, the broken wings is 934 00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:10,440 not necessarily misguided, but it's also not healthy. 935 00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:12,640 If you're not doing it in the healthiest way, obviously, and 936 00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:16,280 you weren't, you know that the empathy can be misguided and, 937 00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:20,320 and being able to use it nuanced like a superpower is, is, is a 938 00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:23,320 very important thing. And the journey is really I, I, 939 00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:25,680 I think it's crucial. We're all on a journey. 940 00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:28,560 There are guys listening to this right now who are in that spot 941 00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:30,680 that you are, but would never dream of being that vulnerable 942 00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:32,360 to be able to talk about it. Well, guess what? 943 00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:35,840 You evolved to that place and to the idea of where you are right 944 00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:38,080 now, whereas I know nothing. You know, that's that old adage. 945 00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:40,040 If you're the smartest guy in the room, get into a different 946 00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:42,920 room. You know, the idea that we don't 947 00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:44,560 know. Again, I look at 25 year old 948 00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:46,960 Mike, 25 year old Mike who thought he had it all figured 949 00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:49,640 out. That guy was a fool, such a 950 00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:51,680 fool. And 50 year old Mike is also a 951 00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:53,920 fool. Under the perspective of wisdom 952 00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:59,760 that you gain along the way, It's certainly also leads to how 953 00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:02,240 OK, yeah, you're street smart and all that and you're OK. 954 00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:04,200 Yeah, it's going to be a massive growth industry. 955 00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:06,320 So you see where the puck is going and that's a that's a good 956 00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:09,920 thing. But also the need came from your 957 00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:12,920 heart, you know, and to go around to how, you know, who's 958 00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:15,920 the guy that started protect. Now, before we get into that 959 00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:18,080 there too, I just want to, I just got to ask because, you 960 00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:22,200 know, father of two girls, you know, 117 and I mean in 961 00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:25,520 unprecedented times, I've got a granddaughter, She's 8. 962 00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:29,000 She is my favorite noun. She just flat out is my favorite 963 00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:31,640 noun on the entire planet. There is nothing that I 964 00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:33,200 appreciate more than my granddaughter. 965 00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:38,440 I, I adore her and I look, I look at what the world that 966 00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:42,800 she's inheriting and I look at her challenges now here and now, 967 00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:45,760 you know, and we're we're all as a family grasping. 968 00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:49,840 OK, when is a phone OK? When, then when is a smartphone 969 00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:51,280 OK? Then when is some of these other 970 00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:53,600 things OK? Because you know, we're very, 971 00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:57,760 very mindful of some of the things that we need protection 972 00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:00,640 for and from. So we're going to get to protect 973 00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:02,840 now in a second. But, but I, I want to go to when 974 00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:06,880 you became a father, certainly a lot of these things that you 975 00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:10,080 learned along the way went from 2D to 3D and, and then becoming 976 00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:14,280 a father of girls as well, also very specific, but yet you still 977 00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:16,840 have this optimistic attitude. So, so like, let's talk to some 978 00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:19,680 of the dads that are out there now that we're kind of opening 979 00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:22,520 up some of these things because I certainly wouldn't wish this 980 00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:26,400 childhood that my granddaughter is experiencing on anybody 981 00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:28,600 considering the childhood from where I came from in my 982 00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:31,040 perspective, where there wasn't any of that stuff. 983 00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:32,720 But yet we're in the modern world, right? 984 00:51:32,720 --> 00:51:35,560 So. Well, for one, my daughter's 985 00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:37,800 didn't get a mobile phone until they were 14. 986 00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:40,200 There we go. And frankly, it's been all 987 00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:43,360 downhill from there, to be honest with you. 988 00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:46,720 Like, literally, you know, once they got their phones, that's 989 00:51:46,720 --> 00:51:49,000 when like the mental health issues started to kick in. 990 00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:52,440 Like, literally, you know, So they were fine literally up 991 00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:56,080 until that point, OK. And once they got their phones, 992 00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:59,120 it's just too much information. And the only reason why we gave 993 00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:02,680 them phones at that age was because, but look at my girls 994 00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:05,400 did not cross the street until they were 14 years old. 995 00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:08,600 And that's just be based on like the environment that we live in, 996 00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:09,920 the type of neighborhood we live in. 997 00:52:10,240 --> 00:52:13,520 Like we live in a very city and type environment and play dates 998 00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:15,280 with men get in a car and go somewhere. 999 00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:17,840 They went to private schools and still go to private schools. 1000 00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:21,320 And that meant getting in a car and driving 30 miles, you know, 1001 00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:24,680 to work to school. And so not crossing the street 1002 00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:27,560 just made sense because they just it just the environment. 1003 00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:32,240 But not giving them a phone up until that age was because we as 1004 00:52:32,240 --> 00:52:34,080 parents control the information flow. 1005 00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:36,920 Yes. And even still to this very day, 1006 00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:38,320 I've got parents that reach out to me. 1007 00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:41,120 OK, so like, what software do I install on my 10 year old's 1008 00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:43,000 iPad? I'm like, well, why the hell 1009 00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:44,600 does your 10 year old have an iPad? 1010 00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:47,040 You know, it's just way too much information. 1011 00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:52,200 And so like, you know, my, I think at the time, 16 years old 1012 00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:57,040 dot, my 16 year old daughter told me about, you know, Charlie 1013 00:52:57,040 --> 00:52:59,400 Kirk getting shot in the neck, in the blood squirting out of 1014 00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:01,640 his neck. Like that's, that's not normal. 1015 00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:03,080 That's not supposed to be like that. 1016 00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:05,520 We're not supposed to be consuming that information as 1017 00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:09,920 adults, nevermind 16 year olds. Like that's not good for any of 1018 00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:12,960 us, OK? It really truly messes with our 1019 00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:14,960 well-being, our mental health. Like, I don't know that people 1020 00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:18,080 really truly understand that the amount of stimulation that we 1021 00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:20,800 received, the 24 hour news cycle is not a good thing. 1022 00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:25,200 You know, everything about, like, us being as connected as 1023 00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:28,840 we are is not necessarily a good thing, OK? 1024 00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:31,960 All that information they're consuming is not a good thing. 1025 00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:35,960 And if you realize, like, how it's affecting our children, it 1026 00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:39,000 is truly not a good thing. And I can tell you story after 1027 00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:41,800 story after story of parents that I've worked with and 1028 00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:44,600 children that I've I've encountered that like are 1029 00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:49,720 disadvantaged as a result of them getting their phones before 1030 00:53:49,720 --> 00:53:51,600 the age of 14 years old. Yeah. 1031 00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:54,080 OK. I don't know that they are wired 1032 00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:59,520 or developed enough to even deal with anything up until that age. 1033 00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:01,720 Yeah. And still it was downhill from 1034 00:54:01,720 --> 00:54:03,960 14. So that being said, parents use 1035 00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:06,680 you, you control the information flow. 1036 00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:10,680 Like if you could hold off, do it, you know, or at at a 1037 00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:13,640 minimum, like they shouldn't have access to it in their 1038 00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:17,120 bedrooms, like late at night. Like this should be like in the 1039 00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:19,320 family room. Like they, there's no need for 1040 00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:22,680 any of that stuff. Like, so whatever you can do to 1041 00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:26,840 like stave it off for as long as possible, please. 1042 00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:30,000 It's, it's just better for them. There's all kinds of books. 1043 00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:35,360 There's all kinds of look at states are only right now making 1044 00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:38,760 it illegal for kids to have phones or, you know, banning 1045 00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:41,240 them in schools. Like only right now it's taking 1046 00:54:41,240 --> 00:54:43,400 them this God damn long to figure that out. 1047 00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:45,520 Yep, my kid. Is 20 years old. 1048 00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:48,800 It's taking them 20 years, yeah. It's it's that that, that that's 1049 00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:50,760 ridiculous. It's taking them that long to 1050 00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:52,640 figure out this isn't a good thing. 1051 00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:57,480 And it's only only now are states making social media 1052 00:54:57,480 --> 00:55:01,640 illegal for 13 year olds only now it's taking that long. 1053 00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:04,880 It it like they're only coming out with the data now. 1054 00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:07,520 I've known about this since day one. 1055 00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:10,680 It doesn't make me, you know, like this amazing 1056 00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:13,520 prognosticator. It just for me, being in the 1057 00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:18,000 business, seeing it first hand, being a technologist, I've seen 1058 00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:22,960 the damage it could do early on. OK all that I'm ranting. 1059 00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:25,920 Here and a father of girls who sees the change in their 1060 00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:28,800 behavior like, like, again, if we're, if we're parents that 1061 00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:31,040 are, that are aware and we have awareness and we're, we're, 1062 00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:33,280 we're, we're actively listening and watching. 1063 00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:35,760 It doesn't take a rocket scientist. 1064 00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:38,480 You don't have to be in the business to see behavior is 1065 00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:40,560 suddenly starting to change. Oh, we got a we got it. 1066 00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:43,120 We got to change directions. We got to, we got to slow this 1067 00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:45,120 train down and figure out what's where it's going and what's 1068 00:55:45,120 --> 00:55:48,320 going on. OK, so all these things, you 1069 00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:51,120 know, have have, it's been a confluence of events. 1070 00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:54,240 Your whole life is a confluence of events to bring you up to 1071 00:55:54,240 --> 00:55:56,680 this place, like from your formative years when your 1072 00:55:56,680 --> 00:56:00,320 neuroplasticity was the stickiest, security became a 1073 00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:01,960 thing. It was, it was one of those 1074 00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:04,320 things that part of daily life, you're seeing people who are 1075 00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:09,120 affected, you know, by some of the unsavory elements of 1076 00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:12,360 humanity. And and so it makes a lot of 1077 00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:16,000 sense that you've kind of become the guy that you have other than 1078 00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:18,400 the fact that you didn't get jaded by it and that you've kept 1079 00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:21,000 that optimistic spirit, you've kept that street smart 1080 00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:23,240 experience. That still is a light. 1081 00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:26,480 And I appreciate that. The fact is many people focus on 1082 00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:29,120 the problem and when they've gone through problems, that's 1083 00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:30,480 where they keep their focal point. 1084 00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:33,600 Some people move towards solutions and and Robert, that's 1085 00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:36,240 clearly what you're doing. And it feels like that's what 1086 00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:38,600 Now is. So all these puzzle pieces that 1087 00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:41,680 have come into place to help you, put you in a position to 1088 00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:44,400 create Protect Now, let's go into that for a second here 1089 00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:46,360 because I think it's, it's really important if people want 1090 00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:48,960 to be able to hook up with you, connect with you, whether it's 1091 00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:50,480 on a corporate or a personal level. 1092 00:56:50,680 --> 00:56:52,000 What is it that Protect Now does? 1093 00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:56,320 So what we provide is, you know, the, the, the, the generic term 1094 00:56:56,320 --> 00:57:01,280 is security awareness training. But what I truly do is what I 1095 00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:03,600 would call security appreciation training. 1096 00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:07,400 And in the end, you know, people are, I think most people when it 1097 00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:10,520 comes to security, like, like as we've discussed, they're a 1098 00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:13,520 little concerned, they're a little worried, they're a little 1099 00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:15,640 afraid. And they're basically 1100 00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:17,920 functioning in a certain level of denial. 1101 00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:22,080 You know, and most security training out there is what I 1102 00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:24,600 call the compliance trap. Like, what's being offered by 1103 00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:27,520 most corporations is fishing simulation training, which 1104 00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:30,320 really, truly is bombarding employees with, you know, 1105 00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:35,600 complex, impersonal rules that trigger, like, security 1106 00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:38,960 aversion, right? And that false sense of security 1107 00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:42,600 is felt by meeting these regulatory requirements while 1108 00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:46,920 the actual human behavior remains unchanged, you know, and 1109 00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:50,160 vulnerable. And while fishing simulation 1110 00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:53,680 training is necessary, it's designed to fix the problem of 1111 00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:56,600 fishing, like I mentioned. But what it fails to do is 1112 00:57:56,600 --> 00:58:01,280 address humans where they're at. And fundamentally, it doesn't 1113 00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:04,920 really make employees care. So what sometimes happens as a 1114 00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:09,400 result is we engage in blaming the victim, which we've been 1115 00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:11,480 blaming the victim forever, right? 1116 00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:13,960 And in some cases, you know, you should have done this. 1117 00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:16,280 So you should have done that. It's because of what she was 1118 00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:18,800 wearing. You know, it's like really, you 1119 00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:21,360 know, like you're kidding me, but that's how it's always been 1120 00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:23,000 and I've never been OK with that. 1121 00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:26,760 And so I, we created Protect now to kind of flip that all and 1122 00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:30,440 it's head and bring a whole different perspective, like 1123 00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:34,160 truly a holistic perspective to what security is and what 1124 00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:36,880 security isn't. And as a result of like, you 1125 00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:39,520 know, all of that blaming the victim, we end up having what we 1126 00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:44,800 call this silent failure. And basically it's a compromise 1127 00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:49,080 of the human that triggers no technical alarms and often goes 1128 00:58:49,080 --> 00:58:52,160 unreported because of the shame barrier. 1129 00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:55,920 And human beings experience a tremendous amount of shame. 1130 00:58:56,280 --> 00:58:57,640 It's just the way they were wired. 1131 00:58:58,160 --> 00:59:00,960 You know, it's a it's a way to it's a way to control us. 1132 00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:04,720 It's a way to make us behave. And I get all that, but it's, 1133 00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:08,320 it's, it's abused and not truly understood in that regard, 1134 00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:10,320 especially when it comes to security, right? 1135 00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:13,120 And that shame barrier is like this emotional wall that 1136 00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:17,680 prevents people, employees from reporting a data breach, from 1137 00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:20,520 reporting that they got, you know, hooked in a phishing 1138 00:59:20,520 --> 00:59:22,760 e-mail or, or, or a phone call. Right. 1139 00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:24,080 That makes things even worse, yeah. 1140 00:59:25,160 --> 00:59:27,440 Yeah, yeah, it truly does, you know? 1141 00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:32,600 And so we break that shame barrier by treating like what 1142 00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:35,720 might be considered a mistake, which really isn't a mistake. 1143 00:59:35,720 --> 00:59:37,680 It's just being human. Like you just trust people 1144 00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:41,040 normally and naturally, and they got one over on you, OK. 1145 00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:45,240 And so we treat that as as as this this mistake as not causes 1146 00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:48,800 for termination, but an opportunity to inform and 1147 00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:51,280 educate and like walk that person through. 1148 00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:53,800 OK, so let's talk about this. Let's let's talk about what 1149 00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:55,240 happened. Let's talk about why. 1150 00:59:55,600 --> 01:00:00,400 Like how they used the bad actors, used manufactured 1151 01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:03,680 urgency. And you're human blind spot, 1152 01:00:03,680 --> 01:00:07,720 which is your default to trust to, to get the best of you. 1153 01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:11,200 And let's, let's talk about that now sort of in the future. 1154 01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:14,520 You understand why it is you possess this human blind spot 1155 01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:16,240 because we are the interdependent species. 1156 01:00:16,240 --> 01:00:18,880 We require each other for our survival. 1157 01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:21,520 Man needs woman, woman needs man to procreate. 1158 01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:24,320 So the default to that is giving the benefit of doubt. 1159 01:00:24,320 --> 01:00:26,560 We want to believe that people are good and all that stuff, 1160 01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:28,920 right? So we've, we've updated and 1161 01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:33,000 upgraded the philosophy, the methodology so that people truly 1162 01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:36,280 understand why they're vulnerable because of that human 1163 01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:39,000 blind spot. And ultimately we teach them to 1164 01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:42,440 become what we call the strategic human firewall. 1165 01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:45,880 And the strategic human firewall is just that, you know, 1166 01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:51,880 firewalls like block, you know, various like technical abilities 1167 01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:56,560 to access a device, while a human firewall blocks deception. 1168 01:00:57,200 --> 01:01:02,640 It's our recognizing that not everybody is bad, but not 1169 01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:06,720 everybody's good either. And then like that 3%, let's say 1170 01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:10,840 that if they were to contact me, they use this manufacturer 1171 01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:13,160 urgency. Click this link or else do this 1172 01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:17,160 now or else and so on. And then our human blind spot 1173 01:01:17,400 --> 01:01:21,560 biologically wants to believe that all people are good and 1174 01:01:21,560 --> 01:01:23,920 that once we click that link, it's going to give us some 1175 01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:26,560 trouble. So the strategic human firewall 1176 01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:31,360 blocks deception. It's designed to make us go from 1177 01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:36,920 I trust automatically to I verify everything. 1178 01:01:37,680 --> 01:01:40,720 And once you do that, now all of a sudden, like every e-mail, 1179 01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:43,960 phone call and text message you, you get begins to make a little 1180 01:01:43,960 --> 01:01:47,480 bit more sense to you as to what the motivation to click this 1181 01:01:47,480 --> 01:01:52,000 link or download that file or this manufactured urgency is. 1182 01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:56,360 So that now like you separate yourself emotionally from what's 1183 01:01:56,360 --> 01:02:00,040 happening here to intellectually understanding it, you know, 1184 01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:05,600 interestingly, like to appreciate security is kind of 1185 01:02:05,600 --> 01:02:11,280 an emotional process, you know, and, and it, it, it means, it 1186 01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:14,360 means affecting the person emotionally, changing their 1187 01:02:14,360 --> 01:02:18,760 hearts to change their minds. But once you actually change 1188 01:02:18,760 --> 01:02:23,720 their minds, you're now asking them to actually disconnect 1189 01:02:23,720 --> 01:02:27,320 emotionally when something when a when a security incident is 1190 01:02:27,320 --> 01:02:32,200 about to happen and to think intellectually, right. 1191 01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:34,400 You're teaching them digital St. smarts. 1192 01:02:34,680 --> 01:02:37,640 Yeah, exactly. It's but once you actually 1193 01:02:37,640 --> 01:02:41,040 achieve that, you go through this process of actually 1194 01:02:41,040 --> 01:02:44,360 disconnecting emotionally from the security situation to 1195 01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:46,320 intellectually understanding what's happening to you. 1196 01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:49,720 You know, and before you know it, like people actually become 1197 01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:53,960 strategic community firewalls. And and what people experience 1198 01:02:53,960 --> 01:02:56,680 as a result of this is what I call the kitchen table effect. 1199 01:02:57,280 --> 01:03:00,560 And the kitchen table effect is when you take this company 1200 01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:05,120 training and you bring it home and you teach it to your family 1201 01:03:05,120 --> 01:03:07,640 around the kitchen table. Like try that with fishing 1202 01:03:07,640 --> 01:03:10,560 simulation compliance training. It just doesn't happen. 1203 01:03:10,560 --> 01:03:14,520 You know, with, with, with, with this philosophy, with this 1204 01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:17,720 methodology, you want to teach your family this, you want to 1205 01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:20,080 tell your sons and daughters your wife this, your husband 1206 01:03:20,080 --> 01:03:22,280 this. You want to actually like relate 1207 01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:26,120 this information because it makes so much more sense beyond 1208 01:03:26,120 --> 01:03:29,080 just your digital lives. Like it makes sense on the 1209 01:03:29,080 --> 01:03:31,800 streets too. Like you begin to look at risk a 1210 01:03:31,800 --> 01:03:34,280 little bit differently. You begin to look at people a 1211 01:03:34,280 --> 01:03:36,560 little bit differently. Not that you worry about them at 1212 01:03:36,560 --> 01:03:39,920 all, but you look at them like for who they are and where 1213 01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:41,880 they're at and what their motivations are. 1214 01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:44,360 And you look at this, you look at people differently, like in 1215 01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:47,640 the dating scene when you meet them online, when you meet them 1216 01:03:47,640 --> 01:03:50,120 in person, like and I'm and again, it's not like that you 1217 01:03:50,120 --> 01:03:53,760 worry about people you just like you're a little more conscious 1218 01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:56,960 and thoughtful about aware tensions. 1219 01:03:57,000 --> 01:03:58,960 You're making giving people awareness training. 1220 01:03:59,360 --> 01:04:02,560 It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's literally training for 1221 01:04:02,560 --> 01:04:03,560 people. We talk about this on the show 1222 01:04:03,560 --> 01:04:05,000 all the time. How many guys are sitting there 1223 01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:07,840 just, you know, you know, barreling forward with their 1224 01:04:07,840 --> 01:04:10,200 blinders on like a racehorse? You put the blinders on, right? 1225 01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:12,600 When you take the blinders off, you can see a whole world around 1226 01:04:12,600 --> 01:04:14,960 you as opposed to what's just going forward. 1227 01:04:15,120 --> 01:04:16,640 What you're doing is you're teaching people to take their 1228 01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:21,240 digital blinders off and that becoming thoughtful and doing 1229 01:04:21,240 --> 01:04:25,440 that, that of course is going to, it's going to permeate other 1230 01:04:25,440 --> 01:04:28,080 areas of their life. Because what you're doing is 1231 01:04:28,080 --> 01:04:29,920 giving them a process where they'll actually wake up a 1232 01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:31,960 little bit and look around as to what's going on. 1233 01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:35,240 As opposed to, Oh, I love what you said about the, about this 1234 01:04:35,240 --> 01:04:38,080 manufactured urgency. Like, holy smokes, that's 1235 01:04:38,080 --> 01:04:40,280 exactly right. I don't know that I've ever 1236 01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:44,280 been, you know, I, I, I don't know if I've ever been the 1237 01:04:44,280 --> 01:04:45,800 victim of, of one of these things. 1238 01:04:45,800 --> 01:04:48,320 And perhaps I may have not even known it, But I certainly 1239 01:04:48,320 --> 01:04:51,120 remember back in the day when you know, the virus protection, 1240 01:04:51,120 --> 01:04:53,800 when you had your, your, your 586, the first Pentium computers 1241 01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:56,160 and how, how important it was to have virus protection. 1242 01:04:56,160 --> 01:04:58,280 And if you get an e-mail from somebody you don't know and it's 1243 01:04:58,280 --> 01:04:59,640 an EXE, you don't click it, right. 1244 01:04:59,640 --> 01:05:02,400 That was just the thing and, and, and, and I mean, it's 1245 01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:05,800 gotten so much more complex now. The idea that people can pop 1246 01:05:05,800 --> 01:05:08,600 their awareness up as a result of what it is that you're doing. 1247 01:05:08,600 --> 01:05:11,720 That makes a lot of sense. And boy, again, from a business 1248 01:05:11,720 --> 01:05:16,240 standpoint, certainly, certainly where the puck is going because 1249 01:05:16,240 --> 01:05:18,400 people need that. We need more connectivity and 1250 01:05:18,400 --> 01:05:20,920 awareness when it comes to things rather than, like you 1251 01:05:20,920 --> 01:05:24,880 say, another just corporate, you know, fishing training, 1252 01:05:24,880 --> 01:05:26,560 compliance training, things like that. 1253 01:05:26,560 --> 01:05:28,280 This is way more important than that. 1254 01:05:28,280 --> 01:05:31,240 What a very cool vantage point that you've come from and you 1255 01:05:31,240 --> 01:05:34,360 found some success through it. So where's the application? 1256 01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:37,320 Like if it if it is people who are listening to this, maybe 1257 01:05:37,320 --> 01:05:39,480 they own a small company, maybe they own, maybe they're a 1258 01:05:39,480 --> 01:05:41,520 business owner, maybe they got a family, maybe they're they're 1259 01:05:41,520 --> 01:05:44,480 digital footprint. How do people find you and what 1260 01:05:44,480 --> 01:05:47,040 are some of the ways that they can use Protect now for them? 1261 01:05:47,800 --> 01:05:52,120 So interestingly, you know, I am no ambulance chaser. 1262 01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:55,760 Companies that, you know, recognize and see risk, they 1263 01:05:55,760 --> 01:06:00,120 don't have to wait for something bad to happen, which is kind of 1264 01:06:00,120 --> 01:06:02,480 how we all are. We kind of react opposed to 1265 01:06:02,480 --> 01:06:05,720 being proactive. And I think, you know, engaging 1266 01:06:05,720 --> 01:06:10,120 in effective mental health means being proactive, you know, 1267 01:06:10,240 --> 01:06:12,520 turning off your devices, getting a good night's rest, 1268 01:06:12,520 --> 01:06:14,480 surrounding yourself with good people, right? 1269 01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:17,200 All that stuff, right? You know, taking care of 1270 01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:20,320 yourself, self-care and security is the same thing. 1271 01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:22,080 It's just being proactive. It's just, you know, it's 1272 01:06:22,080 --> 01:06:25,560 engaging in proper practices, becoming the top 10% of secure 1273 01:06:25,960 --> 01:06:29,080 individuals and small businesses because it's the right thing to 1274 01:06:29,080 --> 01:06:31,080 do. You want to manage and reduce 1275 01:06:31,080 --> 01:06:33,040 risk, you know, putting that seat belt on. 1276 01:06:33,480 --> 01:06:37,400 And I am constantly providing free information out there. 1277 01:06:37,400 --> 01:06:40,480 If you follow me on LinkedIn every couple of weeks, we're 1278 01:06:40,480 --> 01:06:43,120 writing a really, you know, solid blog article. 1279 01:06:43,920 --> 01:06:45,440 I got, you know, 10s of thousands of followers on 1280 01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:50,480 LinkedIn and so just search Robert Siciliano SICILIANO 1281 01:06:50,480 --> 01:06:52,680 connect with you on LinkedIn. Otherwise my website 1282 01:06:52,680 --> 01:06:57,520 isprotectnowllc.com protectnowllc.com. 1283 01:06:58,320 --> 01:07:01,560 I, I can't tell you how appreciative I am for our, our, 1284 01:07:01,560 --> 01:07:03,320 our dynamic, our conversation today. 1285 01:07:03,560 --> 01:07:07,880 I'm so glad that our radars got crossed on each other and, and, 1286 01:07:07,880 --> 01:07:09,840 and we could talk about this. This is one of those subjects 1287 01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:14,320 that again, you don't even think about how important it might be. 1288 01:07:14,320 --> 01:07:16,560 But yet once we start getting into it a little bit, it's like, 1289 01:07:16,560 --> 01:07:21,240 Oh my gosh, there are so many, you know, cross pollinations 1290 01:07:21,240 --> 01:07:24,240 that we can do for each other. When you put this, the, the, 1291 01:07:24,280 --> 01:07:27,440 the, the, the veil of mental Wellness over top of this, 1292 01:07:27,600 --> 01:07:30,160 there's a lot of meat on this bone today. 1293 01:07:30,440 --> 01:07:32,840 Robert, I can't thank you enough for coming on here and for being 1294 01:07:32,840 --> 01:07:34,640 as vulnerable as you as you were. 1295 01:07:34,640 --> 01:07:38,320 Thank you so much to show us. There's a lot of guys, a lot of 1296 01:07:38,320 --> 01:07:41,560 food for a lot of thought, as I like to say on this show today, 1297 01:07:41,560 --> 01:07:44,040 on this conversation. I appreciate you very, very, 1298 01:07:44,040 --> 01:07:46,080 very much. And again, congratulations on 1299 01:07:46,080 --> 01:07:48,920 the Boston Marathon, especially doing it under duress, brother. 1300 01:07:49,560 --> 01:07:50,680 Thank you, Sir. I appreciate you. 1301 01:07:50,680 --> 01:07:52,560 Oh. Man, this is awesome. 1302 01:07:52,680 --> 01:07:55,320 This is why we do the show. I say this every time. 1303 01:07:55,320 --> 01:07:56,800 This is exactly why we do the show. 1304 01:07:56,800 --> 01:07:59,560 These conversations where we're, you know, where we are 1305 01:07:59,560 --> 01:08:02,640 completely aware. And it's not a nine second blip 1306 01:08:02,640 --> 01:08:04,560 where we're just scrolling and scrolling and scrolling. 1307 01:08:04,560 --> 01:08:07,560 But this thoughtfulness and the idea of talking about the 1308 01:08:07,560 --> 01:08:11,480 different avenues of things that we deal with as men, the 1309 01:08:11,480 --> 01:08:14,640 directions that we can go. And and really, when it comes 1310 01:08:14,640 --> 01:08:17,160 down to we want to protect our family, whatever that looks 1311 01:08:17,160 --> 01:08:19,040 like. The idea of being, you know, 1312 01:08:19,040 --> 01:08:22,399 street smart, not just book smart, whether it's in the open, 1313 01:08:22,399 --> 01:08:25,040 whether it's on a digital. I think today's conversation 1314 01:08:25,040 --> 01:08:27,720 showed us that those things are actually closer than we might 1315 01:08:27,720 --> 01:08:30,279 normally think. If you haven't downloaded the he 1316 01:08:30,279 --> 01:08:31,600 changed it app, what the heck are you waiting for? 1317 01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:33,399 Go to hechangedit.com. You can look at all the 1318 01:08:33,399 --> 01:08:36,080 information. I love hosting this show. 1319 01:08:36,080 --> 01:08:38,960 This is a lot of fun. I'm the I'm the luckiest guy in 1320 01:08:38,960 --> 01:08:41,000 the world because I get to be in the front row for all of these 1321 01:08:41,000 --> 01:08:43,640 amazing conversations. This has been another episode of 1322 01:08:43,640 --> 01:08:45,960 he cast the official podcast of he changed it. 1323 01:08:46,319 --> 01:08:48,640 My name is Mike Chisholm. Go change something.