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Welcome to He Cast the official 
podcast of He Changed It As 

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always. 
I am Mike Chisholm. 

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As always, I'm excited to be 
here, much to the chagrin of the

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tech people behind the camera. 
As I say that every time I am, I

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am. 
I'm so excited to be here, and 

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I'm so excited for our guest 
today. 

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If you haven't downloaded The 
Heat Changed It app yet, what 

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the heck are you waiting for? 
Join the Revolution. 

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Is it a revolution? 
I don't know. 

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I don't know if it's a 
revolution or not, But join what

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it is that we're doing. 
This movement, this idea that we

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are going to change the world, 
that we are going to bust open 

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the entire arena of men's mental
Wellness, men's Wellness in in 

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total, he changed it.com has all
the info. 

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You can download the app from 
any App Store as long as it's 

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Google or iOS. 
We would love you to to be 

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there. 
Also, if you like the show, 

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please like, share, subscribe 
this podcast wherever you're 

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consuming it, whether it's on 
the Youtubes or the Spotify or 

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the Apples or wherever other 
platform that we happen to be 

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on, please like, share, 
subscribe. 

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We would appreciate that very, 
very much. 

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Now that being said, I said I 
was very excited about today's 

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guest. 
I am here's a dude who there's 

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there's all sorts of way Dan 
could actually be a guest for 

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probably four or five different 
reasons on E Cast. 

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You know we could go from the 
dad perspective. 

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We could go from the 
entrepreneur perspective, the 

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personal development 
perspective. 

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And then and then he's gone 
through a journey and that's 

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what we're going to focus on 
today. 

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The journey in his marriage, the
journey with his family. 

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He is a guy who I am so excited 
to be talking to here. 

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He and I are are compatible 
poker players. 

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We enjoy being around the same 
poker table and the both the 

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same social circles that kind of
a thing. 

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I But after hearing his personal
story, one of the first things 

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after an appropriate time of you
know, making sure we know each 

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other and everything to make 
sure that I wasn't coming across

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like a freak. 
I'm like would you please come 

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on he cast and tell your story. 
It is a powerful one. 

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There's a lot of guys out there 
who are suffering in silence 

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with many of the things that Dan
has not only gone through, but 

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done a really, really good job 
of creating himself tools to 

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deal with this stuff and to 
understand him stuff. 

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He's one of the most grounded, 
self aware individuals I have 

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ever ever met and I'm just 
really, really excited that he 

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is agreed to come here and scoop
out some of the emotional things

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that he has gone through for all
of our benefit. 

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Dan Bile, thank you so much for 
being here and thank you so much

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for coming on to Heat Cast 
today. 

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Thanks Mike. 
I, you know, I was, I was going 

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to mention I I guess I watched a
bunch of these before I got here

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and they were all very good and 
you've got the same intro and 

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the thing I love about that is 
that I actually know you're 

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genuinely excited to be here. 
Is is not a that is not just a 

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phrase, is not that is not 
lipstick. 

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That is, that is exactly who you
are, and I love that. 

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I appreciate you saying that it 
is true. 

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Doing the show is is is 
incredible. 

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It's a passion Speaking of which
before we before we dive into 

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the family stuff and I do want 
to focus on you and and and 

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Teague's relationship and where 
it where it started, where it 

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went and where it is now. 
I want to go there for sure. 

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But before that actually we were
even saying it to to the crew 

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here, the idea that with what 
you're doing professionally, so 

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you're a contractor all in 
contracting poker reference. 

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Totally is. 
Oh, I. 

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Love it. 
I love. 

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Love the name, but you are a 
phenomenal contractor. 

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Some of the things that you have
done in that world, some of the 

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the the the projects you've been
a part of. 

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Gorgeous, gorgeous stuff like I 
mean stuff from the highest, 

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highest, highest and but also 
the most practical. 

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You're a super practical guy, 
all of these things. 

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You're a great contractor, but 
you know, you know, Gretzky 

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talks about, you know, don't go 
where the puck is, go where the 

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puck is going. 
You are taking this and you're 

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actually growing it into 
something else. 

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And I want to talk about that 
first because if there's a 

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contractor out there, you are 
actually creating a platform for

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contractors to kind of teach 
them all the things that are 

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that are there. 
Because. 

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Because a lot of times people 
are really good at framing or a 

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certain part of construction. 
They're like, oh, I'm just going

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to get into business for myself 
and get that cold shower of holy

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cow, there's a lot of stuff 
there. 

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Have I? 
Have I encapsulated what it is 

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that you're doing in a in a in a
concise way there? 

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What is it that you're doing to 
grow from just being a 

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contractor? 
Yeah. 

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So I mean that is pretty bang on
for what it is. 

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It's called Top Contractor and. 
Where can they find top 

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contractor? 
Right now it's just on Facebook.

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So it's a yeah, it's a group in 
in Facebook. 

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And the goal behind it is that a
lot of contractors are really 

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good at what they do. 
But when they, like you said, 

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they kind of get that cold 
shower when they step out on 

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their own and they are not 
prepared for the business side 

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of business and for the demands.
And so I I love to measure 

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everything. 
I I love the saying you you can 

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only fix what you measure. 
And so I measure absolutely 

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everything in my life and 
especially in my business. 

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And as a result, I've created a 
lot of systems and a lot of just

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equations, math equations and 
stuff like that in order to make

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sure that I am balancing my work
and my life and the demands. 

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And a lot of guys will work, you
know, 60-70 hours a week and 

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burn themselves out, destroy 
their relationships, lose their 

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marriages. 
You know, in contracting, it's 

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it's a hard world to be in. 
It's tough, it's competitive. 

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It's definitely not emotionally 
aware. 

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You know, like growing up in in 
in framing, you know the goal 

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was to go from the guy that got 
yelled at to the guy that did 

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the yelling. 
Oh man. 

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Like that's that is the that's 
the contractor world, you know. 

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And so when you become a boss, 
it's really easy to 

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unconsciously step into that and
just go, go, go, go. 

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Why is this taking so long? 
Go faster, go harder, you know, 

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and we are the hardest on 
ourselves. 

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And so the group is really there
to support guys in navigating 

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that process, making sure that 
they're pricing and they're 

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quoting reflects what they 
actually require in order to 

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find some balance. 
I felt something called the 7030

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rule. 
As a business owner, if you're 

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doing really well, 70% of your 
time is billable, 30% of your 

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time is not. 
What happens is a lot of guys go

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from a 40 hour work week, they 
step into a 40 hour work week on

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their own and now they've got to
do 30% after hours, which is 

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where suddenly they're like, why
did I start my own company? 

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I'm working 65 hours a week. 
That's if they're being 

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efficient, that's if they 
understand, like if they're 

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clear on what they're doing, it 
might be another 30%, right, 

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like. 
That's, that's and so that's and

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that's where guys will just work
into the nights and they you 

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know and so finding that 
balance, actually learning what 

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it takes to run a business, 
putting systems in place 

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contracts, yeah, I'm very 
passionate about trades. 

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I think trades are a phenomenal 
way to go in life, super 

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practical. 
One thing that will never be 

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replaced is people who work with
their hands like in a problem 

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solving capacity which is what 
trades is and and so yeah I just

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want to I want to raise the bar 
on contracting especially in 

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North America. 
Raise the bar. 

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But you also have a heart for 
helping people and I love that 

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about you. 
Like when we were sitting around

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the poker table getting to know 
each other over the years, you 

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know, it was very, very apparent
that you and some of the folks 

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that we hang out with shout out 
to Jason, you know, love helping

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people. 
When I told you, you know, I 

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host a men's mental Wellness 
podcast and oh man, like, wait, 

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boy, did we ever go down the 
rabbit hole. 

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At that point, you just have 
this heart for helping you. 

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Have you always had that, or is 
that something that you have 

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kind of uncovered as your 
journey has taken you where it 

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has? 
No, it's something that's always

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been there. 
I kind of, I've always been the 

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guy that people call. 
That's what's going wrong. 

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You know, I get the call at 3:00
in the morning, You know, my 

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truck's stuck in the Bush. 
Come get me. 

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All right. 
You know, like, that's who I am 

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as a core of who I am. 
But I think as I've gotten 

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older, as I've developed my 
skills, the way I help people 

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stuff, it looks a little 
differently now. 

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And trying to do it a little bit
more on mass. 

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So top contractor on Facebook if
anybody's in the trades right 

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now go find that group, jump in 
there and you'll find a synergy 

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is the best way that I can I can
I can describe it what you're 

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trying to create you're trying 
to create this amazing community

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of synergy of of people of iron 
sharpening iron and I just I 

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just commend you for that. 
You're trying to make the 

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contracting world a better place
now one of the things that we 

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talked about before the camera 
started rolling was I I said 

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look I I see you using a lot of 
the skills that you have built 

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through your personal journey 
and and I I'll never forget the 

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night when you told me your 
story you and Tikva's story. 

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You know, I don't know very many
people whose marriages have been

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on a on a, on a journey as 
encompassing as yours has. 

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And and I mean the reason that 
we're going to have you, we're 

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here here today is to talk, tell
that story. 

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A lot of history with you and 
your wife, to say the least. 

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Yeah, well, we're coming up on 
14 years. 

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Married and not together, but 
married. 

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How long together? 
12:00 So we we spent two years 

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apart during that that window 
and yeah it was you know it's 

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it's been it's been a long road 
but I think we're we're finally 

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really working well together. 
We're really enjoying each other

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I think for the first time in 14
years which is kind of crazy. 

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I I think our our honeymoon 
phase ended on the honeymoon. 

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It actually did. 
We got into a fight on the 

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honeymoon and it just, it never 
seemed to recover, which is, 

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which is kind of crazy. 
But yeah, we we both come from 

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really broken families. 
A caveat is, you know, 'cause I,

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I may say some things that are 
harsh in this, in conversation 

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and I do believe that all of, 
you know, our, our parents are 

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doing the best that they can. 
And so I just, I want to put 

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that caveat out there. 
I'm not, you know, I don't want 

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to say something and you know. 
Yeah, you don't have. 

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AI don't want to villainize. 
Yeah, you don't have a bone to 

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pick with anybody as you talk 
about this stuff. 

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It's stuff that happened. 
It's just stuff that happened. 

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Yeah, so, so both my wife and I,
we came from like abusive 

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households. 
It was it was unfortunate and 

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but it was it was very abusive 
for both of us. 

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Physical. 
Mental. 

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All the above. 
All of it physical, mental, 

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emotional, spiritual, both. 
I grew up in Christian community

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being abused spiritually, which 
is a is a hard one to quantify, 

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but it it is. 
So is that like people putting 

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standards on you and then and 
then using leverage of eternal 

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ramifications, that kind of a 
thing? 

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And I mean and and in some ways 
really belittling things and 

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just being like, well you're 
you're dealing with this because

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you don't pray enough and like 
different things like that. 

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And so this is it's, it's. 
It's a way of using. 

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Spirituality as a weapon. 
Yeah, you know, like growing up,

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if I didn't wake up and have 
devotions in the morning, I 

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didn't get to eat before I went 
to school, you know, things like

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that. 
So this is this. 

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Having to participate or else 
there's punishment was a big 

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part of our, well, my life. 
And my dad was unfortunately 

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quite physically abusive to 
everybody in the family. 

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And so I grew up later to be 
diagnosed with CPTSD, which is 

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complex PTSD. 
And kind of the idea of that is 

224
00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:32,480
that you so PTSD is you go 
through life, something 

225
00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:37,240
traumatic happens and suddenly 
your normal changes. 

226
00:12:37,560 --> 00:12:43,040
Right. 
See, PTSD is you never had a 

227
00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:45,480
normal to begin with. 
OK. 

228
00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:52,680
Yeah, so you you go through life
always on edge, always in a 

229
00:12:52,680 --> 00:12:56,680
state of anxiety. 
Always very hyper aware of 

230
00:12:56,680 --> 00:13:00,000
what's going around on around 
you but traumatized at the same 

231
00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:02,120
time. 
So you know like is this person 

232
00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:03,560
going to burst into my room and 
hit me. 

233
00:13:03,560 --> 00:13:06,240
Is this person going to start 
yelling and screaming. 

234
00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:11,280
You know like always on edge 
always in that state of of 

235
00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:14,000
trauma. 
And so both my wife and I kind 

236
00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:18,560
of come from that we actually 
when we were dating and. 

237
00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:19,760
How old were you when you were 
dating? 

238
00:13:20,680 --> 00:13:23,200
24 So it's early 20s. 
Yeah. 

239
00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:27,160
So when we were dating, one of 
the things that actually really 

240
00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:30,720
brought us together was this, 
this bonding around trauma, 

241
00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:35,600
which is called trauma bonding. 
And it's where you, you really 

242
00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:37,440
relate with each other. 
You're like, oh, my mom did 

243
00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:39,280
this, my dad did this. 
And you're like, oh, I totally 

244
00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:40,560
get it. 
I I feel you. 

245
00:13:40,560 --> 00:13:43,280
And there's this, this 
compatibility and this empathy 

246
00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:45,560
that goes back and forth and 
this understanding for your 

247
00:13:45,560 --> 00:13:47,720
quirks and the different things 
that you do. 

248
00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:50,240
And there's, you know, you end 
up shutting down all the red 

249
00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:53,280
flags because you're just like, 
no, I understand why he's doing 

250
00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:54,920
this. 
I understand why he just flew 

251
00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:57,560
off the cuff because of this 
trauma and this, you know, and 

252
00:13:57,560 --> 00:14:00,760
so you you end up forming this. 
Really. 

253
00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:03,320
It's a codependent relationship 
from the start. 

254
00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:05,360
Kind of thing but. 
It's, it's, it's, It's based 

255
00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:10,760
around the fact that you are 
both struggling, right, Which is

256
00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:13,320
not really a good place to start
a relationship, right. 

257
00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:17,240
It's usually better to come at 
it from a place of health and 

258
00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:20,120
you know, take that on. 
And so we were both really 

259
00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:22,360
struggling and then we kind of 
found each other and then we 

260
00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:23,920
decided we would struggle 
together. 

261
00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:27,000
I think no, I think it's, I 
think it's good talking about 

262
00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:31,400
this because many times I in my 
life I've heard the idea of of 

263
00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:34,720
of, you know, people meeting in 
a a for for example and not 

264
00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:37,320
saying that I'm not, you know, 
vilifying anything or or or 

265
00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:39,440
anything. 
I'm just observing, you know if 

266
00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:43,040
you're both addicted to alcohol 
at this point here maybe before 

267
00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:46,920
getting into a relationship you 
don't want to chore that up and 

268
00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:50,160
and that's that's you know 
that's an example that that 

269
00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:52,840
we've heard in our lifetimes, 
it's kind of been around. 

270
00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:58,480
But the idea of bonding through 
mental health trauma of of of 

271
00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:00,560
some sort, I mean it's the same 
thing really at the end of the 

272
00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:03,520
day it's just a different 
affliction or or or a different,

273
00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:05,640
you know, catalyst for that 
bonding. 

274
00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:11,320
That's very interesting. 
Did you guys, obviously you you 

275
00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:13,040
didn't know you were trauma 
binding at the time. 

276
00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:15,320
This is something that you 
learned through the work that 

277
00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:16,360
you've done. 
Yeah. 

278
00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:21,400
So that was something that we, 
we began to understand much 

279
00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:23,120
later. 
So the first like, so we got 

280
00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:24,880
married. 
We both had. 

281
00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:27,680
So short dating. 
Yeah, we we only were. 

282
00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:30,680
It was about a year from the 
time we started dating to when 

283
00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:32,040
we were married. 
So it was quite quick. 

284
00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:38,000
Again, growing up in the church,
you know, you're kind of like 

285
00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,080
marriage is the goal, it's the 
trajectory. 

286
00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:41,920
That's what you do. 
You know, you date, you find 

287
00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:45,040
somebody, you get married. 
And at that point we're still 

288
00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:49,000
both quite involved with that. 
And so that was what was going 

289
00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:50,640
on. 
And so we we got married. 

290
00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:59,160
And right away, unconsciously, 
we stepped into the roles that 

291
00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:04,560
were modeled to us, not the 
roles that we wanted to in body.

292
00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:07,680
Are these traditional? 
Yeah, sort in traditional, but 

293
00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:10,960
also reflective of what we grew 
up in, which was abusive. 

294
00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:21,400
So because we just like my, my 
wife's parents, the mom is kind 

295
00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:23,400
of the aggressor. 
Dad was completely checked, 

296
00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:27,440
checked out. 
He went through some horrific 

297
00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:33,400
things as a child and actually 
fell off a ladder and as an 

298
00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:37,520
adult and had all of it come 
flooding back in. 

299
00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:40,240
And this was right around the 
time that he started having 

300
00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,640
kids, my wife. 
And so he just completely 

301
00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:46,680
checked out because he couldn't 
deal with what was coming back 

302
00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:50,120
to him. 
And mom got super angry about 

303
00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:51,360
this. 
And so there was just this 

304
00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:54,360
dynamic in that relationship of 
just like dad doesn't show up, 

305
00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:58,000
doesn't do anything, Mom's super
aggressive, angry all the time, 

306
00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:04,680
better controlling, you know, in
my relationship or my parents 

307
00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:10,480
relationship, Dad was abusive. 
Mom was unfortunately coping the

308
00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:13,319
best she could, but ended up 
addicted to prescription drugs 

309
00:17:14,319 --> 00:17:16,160
and antidepressants and stuff 
like that. 

310
00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:20,960
Very checked out, was actually 
not present for most of my 

311
00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:23,640
teenage years. 
She lived outside the house. 

312
00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:29,280
And so when we got married, we 
stepped into these roles and 

313
00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:31,720
combined with, you know, the 
church stuff. 

314
00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:36,000
So immediately you put all of 
your money into one bank account

315
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:39,840
and you, you know, do all of 
these different things that are 

316
00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:41,680
like a checklist that you're 
supposed to do. 

317
00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:46,680
The man is the leader of the 
house and the wife submits and 

318
00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:49,960
gives up everything to follow 
the man and like all of this 

319
00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:54,160
kind of stuff and, you know, in 
a totally healthy, perfect 

320
00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:56,600
world, sure, a lot of that 
works. 

321
00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:03,520
I had a ton of trauma. 
So I I unfortunately became 

322
00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:05,720
abusive. 
I I, I think I'd probably 

323
00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:08,000
actually been abusive in my 
previous relationships. 

324
00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:13,000
I I was unaware. 
Even in my marriage, for the 

325
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:14,520
first seven years, I was 
unaware. 

326
00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:18,560
The first seven years. 
So kids are already like, 

327
00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:20,600
obviously. 
Yeah, So we had we had a couple 

328
00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:22,600
kids from that point when we 
separated. 

329
00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:24,440
So you were a dad that was in 
this place too? 

330
00:18:25,120 --> 00:18:31,600
So part of that was, you know, 
my my baseline for abuse was I'm

331
00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:34,320
not holding you upside down by 
one leg and beating you with a 

332
00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:37,720
stick. 
So there's there's a lot that 

333
00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:39,840
comes before that that's still 
abuse. 

334
00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:45,200
So, you know, so that's, you 
know, like I didn't cross that 

335
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:46,600
line. 
You know, I didn't do that to 

336
00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,080
you. 
So I'm not being abusive when I 

337
00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:52,160
yell and scream and punch a hole
in the wall or throw something 

338
00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:54,000
across the room because I'm 
angry. 

339
00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:59,200
When I, you know, get right in 
your face and make you feel 

340
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:05,840
small, that's that's not abuse. 
That's that's just anger. 

341
00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,080
That's me expressing myself, you
know. 

342
00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:11,280
And unfortunately, that's 
absolutely abuse. 

343
00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:14,080
And I was completely unaware of 
it. 

344
00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:16,920
Partly a lot to do again with my
upbringing. 

345
00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:21,280
Like as a kid, I went to a bunch
of the leaders in my community 

346
00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:25,600
and I told them what my dad was 
doing to our family and not one 

347
00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:28,480
of them stepped in. 
Not one. 

348
00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:38,000
And so for me, that set this 
tone of where is that line? 

349
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:40,720
Where's the line where somebody 
needs to step in? 

350
00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:42,480
And I didn't know where that 
was. 

351
00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:49,520
And so in my own experience, I 
was justifying my outrage. 

352
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:52,560
My stuff. 
Part of the PTSD is also a bit 

353
00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:55,520
of dissociation that happens 
when you're super triggered. 

354
00:19:56,040 --> 00:20:01,960
And so I was unable to stay in 
my body and really understand 

355
00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:03,960
what I was doing to the people 
around me. 

356
00:20:05,360 --> 00:20:09,520
And yeah, so, so like, I just, I
had no grid for it. 

357
00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:12,520
And. 
You know it's again it's not not

358
00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:20,000
a not an excuse it's just what 
was and now you know now I now I

359
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:24,640
have an understanding and so you
know I one of the things too I 

360
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:29,080
think that's really hard is a 
lot of people who abuse were 

361
00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:31,600
were abused. 
Hurt people, hurt people. 

362
00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:35,000
I was, you know, I was sexually 
abused, mentally abused, 

363
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,040
spiritually abused, physically 
abused. 

364
00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,640
You know, I I I experienced the 
whole spectrum of abuse. 

365
00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:46,960
And so I was so unhealthy and 
out of touch with myself and 

366
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,760
dissociated for myself that I 
just, I had no clue what I was 

367
00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:54,200
doing. 
And it's, you know, and then 

368
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,960
when a lot of people too, they 
get healthy, they they just sort

369
00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:59,320
of try to shut that down. 
They'll never go back there. 

370
00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:03,440
You know, we we hold this this 
terrible belief in society that 

371
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:05,000
once you're a villain, you're 
always a villain. 

372
00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:08,240
There is no redemption, you know
yet. 

373
00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:10,720
Like how many of our favorite 
movies are about redemption. 

374
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:17,120
But in society, we're we're 
like, no, you know, that person 

375
00:21:17,120 --> 00:21:18,480
did this thing. 
They are cancelled. 

376
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,040
They're done forever. 
We are ruining their career. 

377
00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:22,760
We're ruining everything about 
them. 

378
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:27,920
And we never give a person a 
chance to make amends, to find 

379
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:32,040
their way back to health. 
And you know, and that actually 

380
00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:35,040
in in a lot of ways creates a 
whole nother level of men's 

381
00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:37,440
mental health because a lot of 
that is directed at men. 

382
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:41,600
A lot of men acted one way 
because that's how they were 

383
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,440
taught to act. 
It was, it was how they were 

384
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:48,880
like instructed to be. 
And then it's coming out that 

385
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,360
that behavior now is we're 
becoming more aware and more in 

386
00:21:51,360 --> 00:21:54,840
touch and and getting a better 
understanding is is unhealthy. 

387
00:21:56,080 --> 00:22:00,120
But now they are they are done. 
They're not allowed to make the 

388
00:22:00,120 --> 00:22:02,720
changes in their life to become 
a better leader, to become a 

389
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,080
better father, to become a 
better husband, to become a 

390
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:10,760
better manager or boss. 
They're just done and and partly

391
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:14,000
part of that is because once you
get into that realm of you can't

392
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,280
be something else. 
They then have to defend 

393
00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:19,000
themselves. 
They're not allowed to look and 

394
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:20,960
go you know what You're 
absolutely right. 

395
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,520
I totally, totally shit the bed 
here. 

396
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:27,200
They're not allowed to do that 
because if they do that, the 

397
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,600
rest of their life is cancelled,
so. 

398
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,320
It's, it's and it becomes 
justification now and that's not

399
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:35,840
going to get us anywhere in 
advancing our society and 

400
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,440
evolving. 
You know who we are and what we 

401
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:39,560
do, yeah. 
Yeah. 

402
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:43,920
So, so it's it's it's a it's a 
it's an interesting place to be.

403
00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:48,200
I I try to talk about this 
because I know a lot of guys are

404
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,640
here. 
A lot of guys are afraid of if 

405
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:55,200
they come clean, if they own up 
to their mistakes, if they take 

406
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:57,760
ownership. 
You know, one of the the first 

407
00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:00,840
things that I ask people do when
they join our top contractor 

408
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:04,760
group is to own their crap. 
Like make a post, Own your crap.

409
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,240
This isn't. 
Oh, I struggle with finances. 

410
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:10,440
It's what's behind that, What's 
the fear? 

411
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:14,880
What's the emotional crap that's
stopping you from actually being

412
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:16,680
successful? 
Because we are. 

413
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,080
We are what stands between US 
and success. 

414
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:21,200
Nobody else. 
It's just us. 

415
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:27,720
Absolutely. 
And so I I spend a lot of time 

416
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:32,400
being willing to be honest, 
vulnerable, put this out there, 

417
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,480
this, this could cost me 
clients, this could cost me 

418
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,400
hundreds of thousands of 
dollars, saying this in a very 

419
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:44,840
public arena because of the way 
that we view things in society. 

420
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:51,880
But helping other men become 
better men is way more important

421
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:52,880
to me. 
Well, I was going to say, well, 

422
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,080
we're certainly going to, we're 
going to do our part to change 

423
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:56,120
that. 
That's why this whole platform 

424
00:23:56,120 --> 00:23:58,080
exists. 
I mean that that's exactly it. 

425
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,880
And and I mean you, you 
attracted to it immediately when

426
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:04,240
you found out what my wife and 
her team are doing, you know 

427
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:07,320
with he changed it. 
You are, you are the living. 

428
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,440
In my opinion, Dan, you're the 
living embodiment of what he 

429
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:12,800
changed. 
It is because you know we're 

430
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:16,880
going to keep going, you know. 
You know for the first seven 

431
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:21,360
years here, who you were, what 
your relationship looked like is

432
00:24:21,360 --> 00:24:23,200
nowhere near where you are right
now. 

433
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,600
You are literally the guy that 
he changed it, poster child in 

434
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:28,840
many ways. 
Yeah, I changed it. 

435
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:29,920
That's right. 
I did. 

436
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:31,360
And you did. 
Yeah. 

437
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,080
And I mean, not on my own. 
That's. 

438
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:36,200
That's the other big thing is 
not on my own. 

439
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:42,400
I had a lot of help. 
So it's seven years in my wife 

440
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,880
and I and our two kids. 
We moved to Thailand. 

441
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:50,960
We were there for six months. 
We were there to do something. 

442
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,320
It didn't work out. 
It's not consequential. 

443
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:55,680
I ended up with a six month 
holiday. 

444
00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:02,640
During that six month holiday I 
was stressed, I was exploding, I

445
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:06,920
was angry, I was depressed, I 
was all the things you're not 

446
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:08,680
supposed to be when you have a 
six month holiday. 

447
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:15,400
And so when that happened, that 
was the white, you know, I was 

448
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:17,160
actually just talking to a 
friend of mine about it. 

449
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:19,360
He said he was like Thailand was
the worst thing that ever 

450
00:25:19,360 --> 00:25:20,640
happened to you. 
And I was like, what do you 

451
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:22,560
mean? 
I'm like, it was the catalyst. 

452
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:25,920
It was the thing perspective. 
I love perspective. 

453
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,920
It was the thing that shone the 
light on to what was going on. 

454
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,760
I no longer had an excuse. 
I no longer could. 

455
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:34,800
Blame my work. 
Blame my job. 

456
00:25:35,360 --> 00:25:39,920
Blame other relationships. 
Blame North American stress. 

457
00:25:40,120 --> 00:25:42,080
Blame. 
Keeping up with the Joneses. 

458
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,120
You know any of this? 
I'm on holiday in Thailand 

459
00:25:45,120 --> 00:25:47,880
drinking coconuts. 
Like, why? 

460
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,560
Why am I, why am I losing my 
mind? 

461
00:25:51,120 --> 00:25:56,080
So that that was the catalyst 
that sort of set everything off.

462
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,800
It was also, you know, it gave 
me the perspective. 

463
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,360
It also gave my wife the 
perspective that there's no, 

464
00:26:01,360 --> 00:26:08,280
there's no end to this, 
unfortunately, because she was. 

465
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:13,920
She was telling herself a story 
that this wasn't who I was 

466
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,080
because she really, truly loved 
me. 

467
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,440
And so she wanted to believe the
best about me. 

468
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:23,800
And when all of my excuses faded
away and I was still who I was, 

469
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:32,040
what do you do? 
So we came back and she left and

470
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,120
that sucked. 
It really sucked. 

471
00:26:36,360 --> 00:26:40,880
Did you see it coming at all? 
Yeah, I mean, I I I did. 

472
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,400
I don't think I was willing to 
be honest with the fact that I 

473
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:47,640
saw it coming. 
But it was, it was not like we 

474
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,280
we were definitely on, like we 
were definitely there. 

475
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:52,840
It was like what's going to 
happen next was was sort of the 

476
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:56,360
question. 
And yeah, so we came back, she 

477
00:26:56,360 --> 00:26:58,920
left. 
We ended up coming back to 

478
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,000
Kelowna separated. 
She got her own place with the 

479
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:10,160
boys who were 3, 1/2 and two at 
the time. 

480
00:27:11,120 --> 00:27:13,760
My youngest son at the time, 
he's handicapped. 

481
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,600
He's he's got a disability. 
So that creates a bunch of 

482
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,840
challenges as well. 
It also meant that we had to be 

483
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:27,200
talking a lot, which was hard 
and but she laughed and she made

484
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,880
it very clear that we were done.
I kind of held on to the notion 

485
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,440
that maybe we could figure it 
out, but she was like, we are, 

486
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,960
we are done. 
That's, that's what's going on. 

487
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,320
So I actually went over there 
one day because she was supposed

488
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:44,920
to go away for a few days. 
I was going to take the boys and

489
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:49,000
I got there. 
The boys were not happy. 

490
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:53,720
They were, they did did not want
to spend time with dad and so 

491
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,320
she cancelled her trip on the 
spot and just told me to take 

492
00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:01,960
off. 
And so I actually went and I 

493
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:11,680
went and tried to kill myself 
because that was another 

494
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,400
conversation I was just having, 
was about the idea that suicide 

495
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:19,840
is, is is selfish. 
And having been there, I can. 

496
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:25,480
I can say that it's very easy 
for me to follow a person's line

497
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:29,560
of thought to where in their 
mind it's the most selfless 

498
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:40,040
thing they can do. 
You know, I I know it's OK 

499
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:41,880
because other men have done this
in this room. 

500
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:46,760
You were not the first in the 
studio, my friend. 

501
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:51,240
No. 
Yeah, I I I didn't. 

502
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:56,320
I got to this point where I'm 
like I am just, I am ruining my 

503
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,960
kids lives. 
I am going to hurt them. 

504
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,360
I'm going to perpetuate. 
I couldn't see a way out of 

505
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,080
where I was. 
I couldn't see a road to being a

506
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:11,000
healthy father. 
I had lost my marriage and in my

507
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:16,280
mind it was if I just go away 
quietly, they're young, they 

508
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,760
won't Remember Me, they won't 
think about me. 

509
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:24,000
My ex will find another person 
because she's a wonderful woman 

510
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,040
and they will grow up in a 
healthy family. 

511
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,120
That was that was what was going
through my head. 

512
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,600
That was the story that was 
right there, and you were 

513
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:37,280
telling yourself that story. 
Yeah and so I don't really 

514
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:44,200
remember what happened. 
I I drove away I yeah tried to 

515
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:49,960
end my life ended up waking up 
in the hospital and that was 

516
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:54,120
when I I finally unfortunately 
that was that was finally when I

517
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:55,600
actually accessed the help I 
needed. 

518
00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:00,200
Prior to that, I had reached out
a couple times to different 

519
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:05,640
things. 
I had gone to a a group that 

520
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:13,880
specializes in sexual assault 
survivors, and I I went in, I 

521
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:15,760
said I'm here to get some 
counseling and they looked at me

522
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,880
and went, well, we we actually 
counsel victims, not 

523
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:24,680
perpetrators. 
Are you kidding me? 

524
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:29,280
Yeah. 
And I was like, yeah, that's 

525
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:34,120
that's why I'm here. 
And and so that that started off

526
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:35,880
really bad. 
It lasted a couple sessions. 

527
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:37,080
I was like, I just can't do 
this. 

528
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,200
You guys are just not. 
Oh man. 

529
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:44,960
And I gone to another public 
mental health and tried to get 

530
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,640
some help for PTSD is when I 
first got the diagnosis for 

531
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,200
PTSDCPTSD. 
Yeah. 

532
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:52,400
And. 
So it's not like you weren't 

533
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:54,200
seeing professionals along the 
way. 

534
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:57,720
There was a little bit of that. 
This was, this was post Thailand

535
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:01,400
priest Like, yeah, actual 
separation when I went and did 

536
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:03,240
those things. 
Last ditch effort, Hail Mary 

537
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:05,200
type stuff. 
Yeah, I was like, I can see this

538
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,520
is ending. 
I need to like prove to my wife 

539
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:12,040
that I'm trying to get help. 
And so I went to that one and 

540
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,040
that didn't work. 
Went to the other one and it 

541
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:15,320
was. 
But you got a diagnosis out of 

542
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,160
it. 
Yeah, I got a diagnosis. 

543
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:21,960
But that wasn't enough to Yeah, 
do anything because if I'm not 

544
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,840
actually changing, then you 
know, it's not OK. 

545
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:31,920
And so I I went, they put me in 
some talk therapy which is if 

546
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:35,160
anybody has PTSD, they actually 
know that it's a terrible form 

547
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:41,920
of therapy for PTSD. 
It's yeah, it's just it's not a 

548
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,080
healthy option. 
So I finally I got out of the 

549
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,680
hospital. 
I I got start getting the help I

550
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:48,720
needed. 
I went through cognitive 

551
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:53,160
behavioral therapy, which is 
where you become it. 

552
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,720
It's about teaching you to stay 
in your body, in your emotions, 

553
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:57,920
stay present. 
It's. 

554
00:31:57,920 --> 00:31:59,800
Awareness. 
It's about awareness. 

555
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,000
It's yeah, it's really was 
awareness one-on-one. 

556
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,520
Yeah. 
And and so I I got on to some 

557
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:08,600
meds, different things like that
still on meds today. 

558
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:13,560
It's been years and I went and 
did a parenting group. 

559
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:20,240
I went and joined a men's 
emotional support group and I 

560
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,080
was doing counseling. 
So I think in like, in the first

561
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,960
like year I was separated from 
my wife. 

562
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:29,720
I did hundreds of hours of 
therapy and counseling and group

563
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,240
coaching and stuff like that. 
You went to work on yourself. 

564
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:37,400
Yeah, but you know, it was, it 
was, it was hard. 

565
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:39,200
It was hard. 
It was hard to be separated. 

566
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:41,960
It was hard to lose everything, 
start again. 

567
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:43,840
You know, I didn't have a place 
to live. 

568
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,880
I ended up having to go like 
live with some roommates, you 

569
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:50,600
know, 30 something years old. 
And I'm living with roommates. 

570
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:52,480
I've got kids. 
I can't see. 

571
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:58,160
My wife, she put a restraining 
order on me. 

572
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,720
She kind of became afraid of 
what I would, how I would react 

573
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:06,120
to the whole separation stuff. 
And so I had to have like 

574
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:09,040
supervisors with my kids and all
this kind of stuff and go to 

575
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:12,800
family court. 
And yeah so it was it was a 

576
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,640
really tough time and I think 
one of the things I I had a 

577
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,840
conversation with a young man 
recently that's going through 

578
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:22,040
something similar and they've 
got a a little one they just had

579
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:26,000
and he's you know he's going 
through a separation with his 

580
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:33,200
his wife and he's like she is 
building an arsenal against me. 

581
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:39,320
And and I said you know I I hear
that when when I went to family 

582
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:43,880
court my wife wrote a 10 page 
deposition of all the things 

583
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:48,040
I've done wrong. 
And I'm sure it could have been 

584
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:52,520
longer. 
And I got to court with one page

585
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:56,080
and the judge took my page and 
read it. 

586
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,920
And I didn't know I was supposed
to submit it before I got to 

587
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:00,560
court. 
So she was nice enough to read 

588
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,400
it. 
And I'm glad it was one page. 

589
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:08,880
And she, she, she looked at me 
and she's like, do you have 

590
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:13,600
anything to say? 
And I said my wife's deposition,

591
00:34:15,199 --> 00:34:16,520
There's things in there I agree 
with. 

592
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:18,440
There's things I don't. 
And this this was me at the 

593
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,520
time. 
At this point, I again, my views

594
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:23,320
changed a little bit. 
But at the time I said, you 

595
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:24,480
know, there's things in there I 
agree with. 

596
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,360
There's things I don't, but at 
the end of the day, everything 

597
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,960
she wrote is her experience and 
I can't argue with her 

598
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:32,320
experience. 
Her experience is her 

599
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:38,280
experience. 
I just want to be a good dad. 

600
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:41,639
So tell me what you need from me
and I'll do that. 

601
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,000
Wow. 
And and the judge actually, 

602
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:49,199
like, she stopped, she looked at
me and she, you know, there's 

603
00:34:49,199 --> 00:34:51,560
all these other people waiting 
in the courtroom for their turn 

604
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:53,320
to go up. 
Yeah, that's how we do it here. 

605
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,800
And she looked at me and she 
said she's like, in all my 

606
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,480
years, you were the only man in 
this situation to have ever said

607
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:08,560
anything like that to me. 
And she had a quick conversation

608
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:11,280
with my wife and they both 
agreed that I could then see my 

609
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:16,080
kids unsupervised after that. 
And you know, I think that 

610
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:21,400
there's men were we, You know, I
I'm in a lot of men's groups. 

611
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:23,600
I see a lot of men struggling 
through these things. 

612
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:25,720
And like, I'm gonna lose my 
kids, I'm gonna lose my family 

613
00:35:25,720 --> 00:35:30,720
and get really defensive. 
And it's, you know, and I get 

614
00:35:30,720 --> 00:35:32,840
it. 
It does feel like the world is 

615
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:36,000
out to get men, especially when 
there's families involved. 

616
00:35:37,240 --> 00:35:41,840
But I think that, you know, 
heaping more crap on the pile is

617
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:46,920
just not the way through it. 
That woman is going to be in 

618
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:50,160
your life forever. 
One way or another. 

619
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:56,360
If you have kids and you know 
the the best thing you can do is

620
00:35:56,360 --> 00:36:00,080
disarm them with kindness, not 
fight them, not fight back. 

621
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,800
You know, I I get that there's 
times and there's places and I'm

622
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:08,280
not saying don't ever fight for,
you know, access to your kids 

623
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:09,800
and stuff like that. 
I absolutely do. 

624
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:16,800
But I think there's ways of 
doing that that are kind and the

625
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:20,320
world reacts very differently to
kindness. 

626
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:26,280
It just does it just we're so 
desperate for kindness that when

627
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:30,160
we experience it it it doesn't 
go unnoticed. 

628
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:33,800
And so I think that's. 
I think that's kind of what 

629
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,800
happened in that situation. 
And so, yeah, we the. 

630
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:38,760
Tikva. 
OK, so, So the judge, he 

631
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,160
obviously said something that 
that, you know, you know, OK, 

632
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:44,360
perk the judge's ears up. 
What about Tifa at that point 

633
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:46,800
there? 
Did she, did she take note of 

634
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:47,440
that? 
You said they had a 

635
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:49,440
conversation, so obviously, she 
agreed. 

636
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,600
Honestly, I was like completely 
triggered, OK. 

637
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:56,600
No, no, I feel you. 
I. 

638
00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:59,440
Feel you I was very I had a lot 
of anxiety. 

639
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:02,680
Anxiety hinders our ability to 
make memories. 

640
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:08,280
And so I I was just like trying 
to remain calm and not like lose

641
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:11,120
my crap and but still be 
yourself and not not get like 

642
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:13,800
angry but like just like 
breakdown crying in that 

643
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:17,640
situation. 
And so I yeah, So I don't really

644
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:19,520
remember. 
I just know that they agreed and

645
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,080
we were able to move on. 
And so we spent two years. 

646
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:27,000
Yeah, two years separated and. 
And you were working on yourself

647
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:28,120
the whole time? 
I was working on myself the 

648
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,720
whole time and you know, when we
were separated, we were 

649
00:37:30,720 --> 00:37:32,560
separated. 
I was paying child support. 

650
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:34,360
She had her own place. 
I had my own place. 

651
00:37:35,240 --> 00:37:41,520
We had rules set out by an 
arbitrator person about how we 

652
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:44,520
interacted. 
So this was not like a, you 

653
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:46,400
know, we were we were 
essentially at that point 

654
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,520
divorced. 
Everything was split. 

655
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:54,920
It was the relationship's done. 
So kind of went through that and

656
00:37:54,920 --> 00:38:00,160
then at about two years my wife 
called me up and I was driving 

657
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:02,200
and she was like, can we talk? 
And I said, no, you can send me 

658
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:08,080
an e-mail. 
And she's like, no, no, I really

659
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:09,840
want to talk to you. 
I'm like, no, you you can send 

660
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:16,280
me an e-mail. 
And I I like, you know, like, 

661
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:19,080
but in that time, I had tried a 
few times to like, see if we 

662
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:21,040
could work it out. 
And she had made it very clear 

663
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:23,560
that it was not happening. 
So that's the last time I think 

664
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:25,960
we had tried. 
I had approached her to see if 

665
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,840
we could see if something had 
worked out, could work out was 

666
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,760
eight months before this. 
So at that point she had told me

667
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:35,040
she was serving with papers and 
I was just waiting for them to 

668
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:37,200
come in the mail. 
When they came, she said she was

669
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,560
doing it so like, OK, great at. 
That point had you resigned 

670
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:40,920
yourself and said OK if I get 
this done? 

671
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:43,360
Yeah, no, I I had actually moved
on. 

672
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:48,320
I was starting to you know 
interact with other women and 

673
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:52,000
yeah, you know do that kind of 
thing. 

674
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:53,840
That was that was I was. 
You were done. 

675
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:54,640
You would. 
You would accept. 

676
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:56,360
It so when she called me and was
like, can we chat? 

677
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:57,640
I'm like, no, just send me an 
e-mail. 

678
00:38:57,640 --> 00:38:59,320
Yeah, I'm talking about we're 
good. 

679
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:00,800
Life's going on. 
I got my business. 

680
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:02,480
I started my business while we 
were separated. 

681
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,720
Yeah. 
And yeah. 

682
00:39:05,720 --> 00:39:08,200
And so she she was like, no, we 
really need to talk. 

683
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:12,040
I'm like, OK, fine, so I'm like,
you can talk on the phone that 

684
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:13,720
way. 
If this goes sideways, I'll just

685
00:39:13,720 --> 00:39:14,760
hang out. 
And I told her that. 

686
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:19,040
So anyway, we talked and she was
like, no, like, I want to, I 

687
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:22,600
want to have a conversation with
you and see if we can sort some 

688
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:25,000
things out and, you know, give 
it a chance. 

689
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,800
And so wow, that that caught me 
off guard. 

690
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:32,520
And I actually remember, yeah, I
actually went to my buddy's 

691
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:37,480
place after that and I talked to
him and he was like, So what are

692
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:38,800
you going to do? 
And I'm like, I don't know. 

693
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:41,600
I don't know if I want this. 
Like, I mean, it's done. 

694
00:39:45,240 --> 00:39:47,720
We've got a routine. 
Things are happening. 

695
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:51,520
I don't, I don't. 
I don't know that this is what I

696
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:52,800
want. 
I don't know if I want to, like,

697
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:57,120
put myself in the place of 
risking a repeat of the first 

698
00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:58,440
seven years. 
Right. 

699
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,640
Or, you know, the last nine 
years of my life at that point. 

700
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:06,240
And so yeah, so anyway, we. 
But we we did. 

701
00:40:06,240 --> 00:40:10,800
And and initially it was. 
And I've told her this was way 

702
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:14,520
more for the kids than it was 
for her, that I was willing to 

703
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:19,880
see where this would go. 
And yeah, she had done a ton of 

704
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:22,040
work on herself during that time
as well. 

705
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:28,600
She became a much stronger 
assertive woman. 

706
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:33,000
Which I absolutely love. 
Today, she's way less passive, 

707
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:40,040
way less. 
Like she wasn't gonna enable me.

708
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:42,920
To yeah, ain't no doormat in her
now there. 

709
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:44,680
Was none of that, like? 
And that was part of what 

710
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:46,480
happened the first seven years. 
Is that she? 

711
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:49,120
Yeah. 
She wasn't trying to enable me, 

712
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:52,080
but she was by staying around 
and not just saying like, enough

713
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:54,000
is enough? 
Yeah, and leaving because, I 

714
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,680
mean, had she left at year 
three, you know, maybe I would 

715
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:58,840
have dealt with my shit. 
Patterns might not 5. 

716
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,440
Years earlier and done way less 
damage. 

717
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:05,680
And you know, that's not her 
fault. 

718
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,000
That was just, that was her 
thing, right? 

719
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,160
That's this is nobody's fault. 
This is what happens in 

720
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:12,920
relationships. 
We fight for the relationship. 

721
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:14,520
We're taught to fight for the 
relationship. 

722
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:17,400
So in her mind, she was fighting
for the relationship, staying 

723
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:20,120
there. 
She was doing the best she could

724
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:23,760
and you know it's and now it's 
it's been another year four 

725
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:27,440
years we've got two lovely 
daughters post separation. 

726
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:33,800
We we kind of declared our first
marriage over. 

727
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,520
We don't really I mean as much 
as we're still technically 

728
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:39,720
legally married because we never
legally got divorced. 

729
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:44,600
We don't we don't say that we're
we're like we're partners. 

730
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:47,000
That's kind of how we talk about
it. 

731
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:51,440
I actually proposed to her again
after we separated and then got 

732
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:58,560
back together to really kind of 
renew, not renew but like start 

733
00:41:58,560 --> 00:41:59,200
new. 
Yeah. 

734
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:02,200
Yeah. 
And I mean like today I look 

735
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:03,440
back on her. 
I mean the best thing she ever 

736
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:08,560
did was leave my ass. 
I absolutely this is the best 

737
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:10,240
thing she ever did. 
This is the best thing she ever 

738
00:42:10,240 --> 00:42:11,600
did for me. 
It was the best thing she ever 

739
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:13,320
did for herself. 
It's the best thing she ever did

740
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:17,840
for our kids was leave me. 
And I mean in the at the time. 

741
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:19,760
Oh hell no. 
No, of course not. 

742
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:23,720
But you know with with a bunch 
of years of being able to look 

743
00:42:23,720 --> 00:42:25,520
back on it, see where I am 
today. 

744
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:30,760
You know the work that I did 
that enabled me to start my 

745
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:34,000
construction company which has 
been absolutely fantastic 

746
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:38,520
because like I never could have 
done that prior. 

747
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:40,280
I would have failed miserably. 
I was. 

748
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:43,160
I was so dysregulated all the 
time. 

749
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:45,800
Well, you talk about that 
culture of, you know, you the 

750
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:48,000
guy being yelled at. 
Now you become the guy who yells

751
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:49,800
at people. 
Yeah that that was where he was 

752
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:51,360
at. 
I would have just failed 

753
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:55,280
miserably And so now it's you 
know yeah the best thing she 

754
00:42:55,280 --> 00:43:01,120
ever did was leave me and I mean
that's that is you know it it 

755
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:05,360
it's been enough time that 
there's you know I I can just 

756
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:09,960
sit comfortably with that now 
and and be OK with it And she 

757
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:12,920
continues to do some amazing 
work on herself. 

758
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:16,080
I continue to do work on myself.
You know we we just moved to a 

759
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:18,920
new city that's had some 
challenges. 

760
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,360
She went and found me another 
support group to go to. 

761
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:22,840
So I'd be going on Monday 
nights. 

762
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:28,000
I'd go to men's group and you 
know get to share my crap and 

763
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:33,480
hear other men share their crap 
and support each other and you 

764
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:37,040
know just take that time to 
really intentionally check in 

765
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:40,760
with myself and you know be a 
better me. 

766
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:46,800
And yeah so it's that's that's 
sort of that's the sort of the 

767
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:47,840
story. 
Yes. 

768
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:52,720
Yeah and it. 
But it's I think like one of the

769
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:55,480
one of the things too when we 
were separated was that she. 

770
00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:58,480
No, not she. 
Sorry. 

771
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:04,960
When we were separated, I I 
started designing my life. 

772
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:10,440
I started part of the cognitive 
behavioral therapy was to start 

773
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:13,120
living intentionally. 
And so I started to kind of go, 

774
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:15,280
what do I want my life to look 
like? 

775
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:21,840
What do I want out of life? 
And so when I started to really,

776
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:26,120
like, start living 
intentionally, that was actually

777
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:32,880
the point that she took interest
in me again, 'cause she could 

778
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:36,080
see that I had. 
I had finally, truly let her go 

779
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:43,440
what she needed and she could. 
She started to actually see me 

780
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:46,040
be happy for probably the first 
time ever in my life. 

781
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:52,800
And The thing is, it's not like 
you were broadcasting that to 

782
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:54,880
her, telling her all that. 
You know, you were in a routine 

783
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:57,400
at that point where. 
But she just saw it. 

784
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:00,320
She saw the way that you were 
acting, living, communicating, 

785
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:03,000
that kind of a thing. 
It wasn't a show in any way, 

786
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:05,400
shape or form. 
That was just you living your 

787
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:06,480
new life. 
Yeah. 

788
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:10,360
What you had learned. 
Isn't that interesting? 

789
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:17,560
I one of the things that I'm I 
want to be there for are guys 

790
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:21,680
who are in the situation right 
now, whatever that looks like 

791
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:26,280
for them and and and really at 
the end of the day, what I see, 

792
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:28,720
the way that I respond to your 
story is that you empowered 

793
00:45:28,720 --> 00:45:31,480
yourself. 
You may not have known that, but

794
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:34,360
you were kind of powerless when 
you were at your rock bottom 

795
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:37,840
moment and then you started 
taking steps to create 

796
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:41,040
empowerment. 
Ways that that that you can deal

797
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:43,320
with every little situation of 
life, ways that you can deal 

798
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:46,840
with the big situations that you
were dealing with to cope. 

799
00:45:48,240 --> 00:45:51,840
Guys who are approaching maybe 
have hit the rock bottom and 

800
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:53,520
they don't even know it's their 
rock bottom yet. 

801
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:55,520
Like you didn't know that that 
was your rock bottom at the 

802
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:58,200
time, only through reflection. 
Now we know that, right? 

803
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:02,240
What are some of the things that
you would say to to guys like 

804
00:46:02,240 --> 00:46:04,080
you know the young man who 
called you this last week or 

805
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:05,160
whatever. 
What are some of the, what are 

806
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:09,080
some of the the Nuggets of of of
knowledge that you have picked 

807
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:14,320
up along the way? 
Man, there's a lot of them. 

808
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:17,120
Yeah, there are. 
You're a plethora. 

809
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:20,440
That is the pot of gold at the 
end of the rainbow right there. 

810
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:23,080
I drew you a softball, except 
it's kind of not a softball. 

811
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:25,200
It's almost like 10 softballs 
coming out of you because 

812
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:27,000
because you are a plethora of 
this stuff. 

813
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:30,080
Like you are like talking to you
when you and I go for coffee 

814
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:34,360
when you're in town. 
Just listening to the, I'm going

815
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:37,120
to say the wisdom that just kind
of falls out of your mouth just 

816
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:40,880
talking about benign shit. 
It's just, yeah, I mean, you got

817
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:43,160
a lot of it. 
And so if if there's guys who 

818
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:46,520
are suffering, what are some of 
the things that that you think 

819
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:49,800
are kind of hallmark 
necessities? 

820
00:46:51,720 --> 00:46:58,240
Yeah, perspective's a big one. 
You know, I it might sound bad, 

821
00:46:58,240 --> 00:47:02,080
but it's one of the reasons I 
love men's group is because I 

822
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:04,360
get to go here that other men 
are struggling too. 

823
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:07,360
You're not alone. 
You're not alone, but. 

824
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:10,680
I'm not alone and sometimes 
they're struggling way more than

825
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:12,880
I am and it makes me feel good 
about myself. 

826
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:13,720
There's that. 
Perspective. 

827
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:17,280
Maybe that's a terrible thing to
say, but I'm like, when when 

828
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:22,160
you're faced with somebody who 
is doing so much worse than you,

829
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:28,920
it makes your stuff feel like 
you can deal with it, you know? 

830
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:34,440
And and we all go through where 
Ari's stuff is the worst. 

831
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:37,720
And that's OK, but it's also 
knowing that at some point your 

832
00:47:37,720 --> 00:47:39,240
stuff's not gonna be the worst 
in the room. 

833
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:41,120
Yes. 
Right. 

834
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:42,520
That's the the. 
Remember that. 

835
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:45,800
Remember that at some point you 
know this too shall pass. 

836
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:50,280
You know it's, you know we're 
we're not going to hand off here

837
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:52,720
is, you know not this. 
You shall not pass. 

838
00:47:52,720 --> 00:47:55,080
No, no. 
You will pass and you will go 

839
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:58,040
on. 
And if you do it intentionally, 

840
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:01,400
you know if you really engage 
with it, if you don't shy away 

841
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:04,800
from it, if you're willing to 
look yourself in the mirror and 

842
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:10,200
really face yourself, you can 
move past it. 

843
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:14,080
Yes. 
You know me moving past it when 

844
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:17,000
we're separated did not mean 
that we got back together. 

845
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:19,840
It meant that I went and started
my living my life. 

846
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:23,240
I shifted gears. 
I started becoming a good dad. 

847
00:48:23,240 --> 00:48:27,320
I became the dad I wanted to be 
because I became in touch with 

848
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:30,880
myself. 
I taught my kids to do a bunch 

849
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:33,720
of the stuff that I was learning
in a in cognitive behavioral 

850
00:48:33,720 --> 00:48:36,160
therapy. 
We'd, we'd walk through the mall

851
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:39,840
and my boys would be losing 
their crap over a toy. 

852
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:42,720
And I'd be like, all right guys,
we're doing it. 

853
00:48:42,720 --> 00:48:44,520
And they would be like, no. 
And I'm like, yeah, we're doing 

854
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:46,160
it. 
I'm like smell the flowers, blow

855
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:48,440
out the candles. 
And so we'd all we'd walk 

856
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:53,520
through them all and we'd be 
like, and I would do it with 

857
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:56,200
them And all three of us would 
be raising our arms to the sky. 

858
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:59,000
Stretch it out, stretch your 
back, stretch your muscles, 

859
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:02,600
stretch your breathing, Breathe 
in through your nose, out 

860
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:05,800
through your mouth, regulate 
yourself, get back in touch. 

861
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:13,160
And I just became unashamed. 
I'm like, no, this is this is 

862
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:14,920
the crap we need to be teaching 
young men. 

863
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:18,840
If I had been taught this, I 
wouldn't have gone through what 

864
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:21,920
I just went through. 
If I had been taught this, my 

865
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:25,400
dad would have been a healthy 
man and not abusing the family 

866
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:29,160
because he would have been 
practicing this and he would be 

867
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:31,960
in touch with what he was doing 
and the cause and effect and how

868
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:34,240
his actions were impacting the 
people around him. 

869
00:49:34,720 --> 00:49:37,720
And so for me, like, even, you 
know, as you were doing your 

870
00:49:37,720 --> 00:49:40,600
intro, I could feel this wave of
anxiety coming in. 

871
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:43,200
So I was I I did a couple 
breathing exercises just while 

872
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:44,880
we're sitting here really 
quietly, silently. 

873
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:48,160
And I just regulate myself now 
in the moment whenever I start 

874
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:51,040
to feel that anxiety. 
You know, anxiety is something 

875
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:58,040
that I deal with every day. 
And anxiety is unmanaged 

876
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:00,680
emotions. 
That's what anxiety is. 

877
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:03,040
So manage those emotions. 
Who's in charge? 

878
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:06,160
Me or the emotions? 
Tell my kids all that time that 

879
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:07,840
all the time they're they'll be 
losing their crap. 

880
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:09,960
I'm like, who's running the show
here, guys? 

881
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:15,680
You or your emotions? 
Me. 

882
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:17,400
Great. 
Let's do some breathing. 

883
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:19,600
You know, my son, Let's do 
fingers. 

884
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:22,600
Breathe in, breathe out. 
Breathe in, breathe out. 

885
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:25,800
You know, we got all these 
different things that we do to 

886
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:30,400
help regulate ourselves in the 
moment. 

887
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:33,000
You know, it took him to karate 
for the first time, for jiu 

888
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:37,400
jitsu for the first time a 
couple weeks ago and at one 

889
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:39,160
point he was struggling. 
He's new to the class. 

890
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:40,960
There's a bunch of kids his age 
that have been doing this for 

891
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:42,600
years. 
He's he's never done it. 

892
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:46,680
And you know, he went and sat in
the corner and was having a 

893
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:50,160
moment because he he deals with 
anxiety a lot to do with the way

894
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:52,440
I parented him for the first 
three years of his life. 

895
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:56,800
You know, I I damaged my son. 
I have to live with that. 

896
00:50:57,080 --> 00:51:01,400
But I also get to know that I 
get to help him find his way out

897
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:06,040
at 10 years old, not at 33 and 
married kids. 

898
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:09,160
There you go. 
Right. 

899
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:11,480
And so he's sitting in the 
corner of the room having a 

900
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:13,800
moment, and I'm like, I look at 
him across the room. 

901
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:16,480
I didn't even say nothing. 
I just started doing fingers. 

902
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:22,840
And he's like, looks at me, he's
like fingers. 

903
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:26,680
So he sat there and he did, he 
did the exercise for, you know, 

904
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:28,680
he did it twice. 
And then he was back in the 

905
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:32,440
class having fun, you know, and 
he just learning to manage 

906
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:35,480
himself and not derail himself 
for a long time, right. 

907
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:37,440
And so that's that's one of 
those things. 

908
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:39,800
I think there's there's 1000 
tools out there. 

909
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:42,040
I have. 
I have practices I do before I 

910
00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:43,360
go to bed. 
I have practices. 

911
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:45,200
I have all these check insurance
that I do. 

912
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:49,240
The other thing is to have 
empathy for yourself as men. 

913
00:51:49,240 --> 00:51:54,560
We are not taught empathy 
especially, I mean maybe younger

914
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:57,280
men now, but like definitely not
our age. 

915
00:51:57,560 --> 00:51:59,320
You know in our late 30s 
forties. 

916
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:02,800
This is not a. 
We are not an we were not taught

917
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:11,880
empathy and and so I I had to 
learn there there's this there's

918
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:14,080
this Bible verse like growing up
in the church and I think 

919
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:16,680
everybody knows it. 
It's like it's it's the, you 

920
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:19,520
know. 
The Golden Rule. 

921
00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:22,400
Yeah, it's not not the golden 
rule, but it's like love. 

922
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:24,680
Love your neighbor as you love 
yourself, right? 

923
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:29,160
Everybody's heard that, and the 
reality is we can't love our 

924
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:31,080
neighbor unless we love 
ourselves. 

925
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:34,480
And we will only love our 
neighbor to the extent that we 

926
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:35,920
love ourselves. 
Oh, there you go. 

927
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:40,280
So if we are not loving 
ourselves, we are not loving 

928
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:45,160
anybody around us. 
And that is an amazing thing to 

929
00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:48,120
check in with yourself and go, 
how am I loving myself right 

930
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:50,600
now? 
Yeah, you know, when I'm 

931
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:53,680
struggling with clients, when 
I'm struggling with employees, 

932
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:58,120
when I am struggling in life, I 
have to start by checking in 

933
00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:00,800
with myself and going, am I 
loving myself? 

934
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:02,400
When was the last time I did 
some self-care? 

935
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:05,560
When was the last time I checked
in with myself? 

936
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:08,440
When was the last time I engaged
with my emotions? 

937
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:15,880
And I have to start there and 
then I I kind of, I unpack that 

938
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:19,080
and then I can go engage with 
those people in a healthy way. 

939
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:22,160
Otherwise, it's just all day 
long. 

940
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:27,320
Because I am not extending 
empathy to myself, which means I

941
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:29,280
am not extending empathy to 
anybody else. 

942
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:32,440
And so learning how to have 
empathy with myself was was 

943
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:37,200
probably the number one thing 
that I learned while I was 

944
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:39,720
separated from my wife. 
That was, that was, that is the 

945
00:53:39,720 --> 00:53:42,560
number one thing. 
Being able to sit with my 

946
00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:46,440
emotions, being able to not have
to justify them, not have to be 

947
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:49,440
defensive, not have to. 
Just being allowing myself to be

948
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:51,720
a freaking human. 
Yeah. 

949
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:55,880
Like we, we have feelings. 
We're allowed to have feelings. 

950
00:53:56,720 --> 00:53:58,920
I I didn't go and share those 
feelings with everyone. 

951
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:02,040
I would go find a quiet park 
bench somewhere alone where 

952
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:04,960
there was nobody. 
And I would like sit down and I 

953
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:07,640
would go, OK, what what am I 
feeling? 

954
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:12,160
And I would, I'd feel the the 
weight in my chest, especially 

955
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:13,840
when we're separated. 
And it was sadness. 

956
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:17,600
It was loneliness. 
It was, you know, depression. 

957
00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:21,480
It was loss. 
It was, you know, it was all of 

958
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:24,840
these things. 
None of it was angry, but it was

959
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:28,120
all coming out as angry because 
I wasn't allowing myself to be 

960
00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:31,160
in touch with it. 
And when I became in touch with 

961
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:34,720
it, I again, I didn't have to 
explain it there. 

962
00:54:34,720 --> 00:54:38,600
There's this belief in in 
Buddhism that we are conduits 

963
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:46,680
for emotion, for experiences and
what we our job as humans is to 

964
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:48,040
be an expression. 
Yeah. 

965
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:53,080
So when we're feeling sad, it's 
our job to actually feel that 

966
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:56,480
sadness, express the sadness, 
and let the sadness go. 

967
00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:00,320
Right. 
And that's a big part of empathy

968
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:03,480
is is allowing ourselves to 
actually feel that. 

969
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:10,040
Express it in a safe, 
controlled, healthy way and then

970
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:12,000
let it go. 
We don't need to hold on to it. 

971
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:14,360
We don't need to. 
We don't need to, like, keep it 

972
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:16,680
there. 
You know, the funny video we 

973
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:18,640
just watch, you know, repress 
it. 

974
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:20,000
Repress it. 
No. 

975
00:55:20,720 --> 00:55:22,720
Then you become emotionally 
constipated and the only thing 

976
00:55:22,720 --> 00:55:26,560
you're going to feel is, you 
know, hungry, happy or hungry, 

977
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:30,000
horny and angry, right. 
That's the three men's emotions,

978
00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:32,120
you know? 
And that's those are the only 

979
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:36,880
emotions you're going to feel if
you're not actually allowing 

980
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:40,040
yourself to feel. 
Well, you know, the process that

981
00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:41,720
you just talked about about 
releasing it. 

982
00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:46,280
If you interrupt something in 
that process, which many men do,

983
00:55:46,720 --> 00:55:48,720
you interrupt that process. 
That's when things start getting

984
00:55:48,720 --> 00:55:50,960
backed up. 
And the way that when things get

985
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:54,520
backed up, the way that they 
come out usually isn't pleasant.

986
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:56,320
Come out sideways. 
Yeah. 

987
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:57,840
You don't want poop to come out 
sideways. 

988
00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:00,520
No, no, it's messy. 
It's you spend a lot of time on 

989
00:56:00,520 --> 00:56:02,040
your hands and knees cleaning 
the toilet. 

990
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:03,760
That's right. 
That's right. 

991
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:08,760
I, you know, as I've said in 
many of these broadcast time 

992
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:10,200
gets slippery as we do these 
things. 

993
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:13,080
I can't thank you enough for 
coming here to talk about this 

994
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:18,080
stuff before we before we finish
off this time and and we're 

995
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:20,280
going to have you back at some 
point to talk about other stuff 

996
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:26,480
because you are a plethora of of
of of knowledge of wisdom of 

997
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:31,280
experience and I just appreciate
you sharing it today other guys 

998
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:33,440
are practical. 
You're very practical extremely 

999
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:36,600
practical. 
You know and and I think that I 

1000
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:39,320
think that people have have 
maybe gotten a a taste of that 

1001
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:44,720
today but you ain't seen nothing
yet he's yeah the guy is so 

1002
00:56:44,720 --> 00:56:50,480
practical any resources that 
that come to mind any books any 

1003
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:53,680
speakers any people who for for 
guys who want to maybe reach out

1004
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:59,000
and start start looking at some 
of these things that that that 

1005
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:06,400
come to mind as I say that. 
He changed it right there. 

1006
00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:12,120
You know the biggest resource in
the room right now, Hey, the, 

1007
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:16,200
you know, I one of the books for
me with PTSD was The Body Keeps 

1008
00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:18,680
the Score. 
That was an incredible book, 

1009
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:22,840
really helped me, really helped 
me understand and explain what 

1010
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:27,360
was going on and actually begin 
to put words to the the the, the

1011
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:29,520
experiences and the stuff that 
was triggering me. 

1012
00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:34,600
Another term to look into if 
you're feeling like really 

1013
00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:36,600
disconnected is cognitive 
behavioral therapy. 

1014
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:39,400
There's a lot around that. 
And there's lots of resources. 

1015
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:43,000
Oh yeah, like, I mean that's a 
huge thing that they use with 

1016
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:45,280
the Army, with PTSD and stuff 
like that. 

1017
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:51,040
That is a very well researched. 
Well resourced. 

1018
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:57,800
Yeah, I think, you know, I I 
would take a look around at your

1019
00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:04,280
local, local counseling places. 
A lot of the shelters, different

1020
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:07,480
things. 
They they offer these groups in 

1021
00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:11,040
the evening like you know where 
you can go and do this stuff. 

1022
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:13,600
You know, for me that the men's 
group. 

1023
00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:16,840
I had a men's group here in 
Kelowna that I went to for, you 

1024
00:58:16,840 --> 00:58:19,440
know, four years straight every 
Monday. 

1025
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:22,600
And now I'm going to another one
on the island. 

1026
00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:25,200
I know there's one in my town in
Courtney, there's one in 

1027
00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:26,880
Nanaimo, there's one here in 
Kelowna. 

1028
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:30,760
They they are popping up. 
They're becoming more and more 

1029
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:33,320
common as people are seeing the 
need for it. 

1030
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:36,440
So I would, I would look around 
for something like that. 

1031
00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:37,920
That would be something else as 
well. 

1032
00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:40,720
I mean, there's there's so many 
things. 

1033
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:43,480
I think just be kind to 
yourself. 

1034
00:58:44,040 --> 00:58:47,360
Kindness doesn't go unnoticed. 
Yeah, and start with yourself. 

1035
00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:49,520
Like you said, just like love. 
Just like love. 

1036
00:58:49,520 --> 00:58:52,520
Love yourself, right? 
Be kind to yourself and and if 

1037
00:58:52,520 --> 00:58:55,640
you can, learn to empathize with
yourself and realize that we're 

1038
00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:59,360
not just monsters, we are humans
and and and we all have many of 

1039
00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:02,440
the same fallibilities as each 
other. 

1040
00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:05,080
If we can empathize with 
ourselves, then we can start 

1041
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:07,520
dealing better with others and 
empathizing others. 

1042
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:08,200
It just. 
And. 

1043
00:59:08,760 --> 00:59:11,480
And you're allowed to change. 
Yeah, that's OK. 

1044
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:14,480
Society tells us that we're not.
We are what we are. 

1045
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:18,280
That's not the case. 
You know, we can change. 

1046
00:59:18,280 --> 00:59:22,480
You have permission to change. 
You know, give yourself 

1047
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:24,360
permission. 
I give you permission. 

1048
00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:27,000
You have permission to change. 
There you go. 

1049
00:59:28,520 --> 00:59:31,120
I love you brother. 
I thank you so much for, for, 

1050
00:59:31,120 --> 00:59:33,680
for, for coming here and and and
talking about this stuff. 

1051
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:35,440
I love you. 
I love your family. 

1052
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:39,680
Please give my best to Teak. 
And well, I'm going to send her 

1053
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:43,080
a message after this, talking 
about how how brilliant of a job

1054
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:45,560
that you did here. 
I can already tell you she's 

1055
00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:47,480
proud of you. 
I'm proud of you. 

1056
00:59:47,640 --> 00:59:50,400
I'm proud to know you. 
And I'm grateful you're in my 

1057
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:51,720
life. 
Thank you so much for coming on 

1058
00:59:51,720 --> 00:59:53,680
Heat Cast today, brother. 
Thank you so much, Mike. 

1059
00:59:53,680 --> 00:59:55,800
I really, I really appreciate 
the opportunity to share my 

1060
00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:56,160
story. 
Oh. 

1061
00:59:56,840 --> 01:00:00,160
Man, it's awesome. 
Yeah. 

1062
01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:03,440
This is why we do what we do. 
And he's, he's right. 

1063
01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:06,720
I am excited to be here. 
I'm excited to to be front row 

1064
01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:09,760
of these amazing, insightful 
conversations. 

1065
01:00:11,240 --> 01:00:15,760
You know, This is why we're 
growing this thing and we don't 

1066
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:18,560
want to grow it alone. 
So please reach out, go to 

1067
01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:20,280
hechangedit.com. 
There's lots of ways that you 

1068
01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:22,040
can reach out to the team as he 
changed. 

1069
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:24,680
It unfolds and develops. 
I'll tell you I'll, I'll throw 

1070
01:00:24,680 --> 01:00:28,880
this out there as well. 
We're developing actively the He

1071
01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:31,120
Changed It men's group that 
we're hopefully going to have 

1072
01:00:31,120 --> 01:00:32,760
that anybody will be able to do 
a men's group. 

1073
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:37,040
We're going to have a template 
and and and and so watch for 

1074
01:00:37,040 --> 01:00:39,000
that. 
We're working with a whole bunch

1075
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:42,600
of people on on that. 
There's lots of big things that 

1076
01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:48,080
are coming from He changed it. 
I just so grateful that we are 

1077
01:00:48,080 --> 01:00:52,800
in a world that people are open 
to change because I think at the

1078
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:56,520
end of the day, some of the 
things that that Dan talked 

1079
01:00:56,520 --> 01:00:59,040
about here, some of these 
stigmas, they just need to be a 

1080
01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:03,120
thing of the past and we need to
we need to innovate just as well

1081
01:01:03,120 --> 01:01:07,000
mentally as we are 
technologically and that's 

1082
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:12,200
common. 
So, so grateful to be a part of 

1083
01:01:12,200 --> 01:01:15,400
this movement. 
That has been another episode of

1084
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:17,800
he cast the official podcast of 
He Changed it. 

1085
01:01:18,040 --> 01:01:20,600
My name is Mike Chisholm. 
Go change something.