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Welcome to. 
He cast the official podcast of 

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he changed it as always I am 
Mike Chisholm as always I am so 

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excited to be doing this podcast
you know. 

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It's a dream of mine to be a 
broadcaster always has been. 

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It was unrealised for a long 
time and now Suddenly in my 40s,

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my wife comes along and says, 
I'm gonna go and try and change 

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the world. 
Me and a team of people are 

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going to go and try and help 
solve the problem when it comes 

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to men's mental wellness, and 
we've got a big old plan and she

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changed, it is in the waiting in
the wings and all these things 

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are happening. 
And I said, how can I help? 

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And she goes, well, you can host
the podcast if you wanted. 

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And it was like, oh my God, a 
dream come true. 

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And it truly truly is. 
I adore this part of my That is 

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just emerging and flowering and 
and growing what an honor to be 

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part of it even more. 
So the fact that it's part of 

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something that is trying to 
change the world, I love that 

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now, we are still in our 
infancy. 

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So, I've got to, I've got to say
the same line that I say, every 

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episode we're still at that 
point. 

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If you haven't downloaded the, 
he changed it up yet. 

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What the heck? 
Are you waiting for whatever 

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your persuasion? 
He at the Apple, be at the 

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Android. 
We're not a nomination will go 

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ahead. 
Add download the app it is in 

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its beta form, but even in its 
beta form. 

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We're watching guys be helped 
and it's so much fun to see that

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there are some, some guys who 
have have reached out to us 

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with, with stories of 
heartbreaking. 

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Beauty about how they talk about
where they were and how where 

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they are now and how they got 
there. 

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And how he changed, it was a 
part of that process and we're 

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so grateful, you know? 
I got Wayne. 

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Behind me there, you know, he's 
very famous. 

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Quote, don't go where the puck 
is go, where the puck is going, 

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and he changed it as where the 
puck is going. 

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Thank you for everybody who has 
been an early adopter so far, 

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you ain't seen nothing yet. 
I mean, this is just a offering 

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as to what's going to happen. 
So come be an alpha consumer. 

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Come be part of what he changed.
It is going to do with the 

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podcast. 
Now, if you like this podcast, 

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hell, even if you don't like 
this podcast, please like, 

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share, subscribe. 
And the faster we get a critical

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mass. 
Mass of people doing that, the 

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faster I will not have to waste 
valuable podcast. 

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I'm asking you to do that. 
Now, that business is out of the

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way. 
I am really excited about 

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today's guest. 
Now, a few weeks ago, we had 

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somebody who is very dear to our
hearts. 

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We met him at BC Children's 
Hospital, when our granddaughter

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went through. 
What she went through. 

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Thank goodness. 
She's on the other side of it. 

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This beautiful beautiful Brit 
named TJ hodgkinson, we had him 

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on the podcast a few weeks ago 
as he has come. 

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From BC Children's hospital with
a happy ending as well, that day

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that we had the podcast as soon 
as t.j. and I finished our 

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beautiful conversation. 
Someone came running down into 

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the studio and they said, holy 
cow. 

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He changed just got mentioned on
the BBC breakfast breakfast 

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show. 
And we're like, what? 

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What happened? 
And we went on and listened to 

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this segment. 
That It had to do with health in

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Britain and and and, and there 
was somebody on there, 

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representing a company called 
Orca, which sifts through all of

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the health apps and digital 
Health in the digital space. 

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And we somehow somehow got to be
part of this conversation and 

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this amazing very, very 
silvertongue gifted clearly 

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intelligent guest on this show 
was singing. 

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As if he changed it, and we 
couldn't believe it. 

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His name is dr. 
Lloyd Humphreys. 

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He's here right now. 
He's a psychologist, but not 

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just a psychologist, not that 
any psychologist is just a 

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psychologist. 
It's a noble noble profession, 

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but he has taken that profession
and evolved it, put it in 

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steroids, put steroids into it. 
I should say, and, and evolved 

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it into the digital space and he
is taking an old tradition and 

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profession and has leveraged 
that when you Compare it to the 

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needs of people out there and 
said, we need to take this and 

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we need to advance it. 
We need to move into the digital

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space and has done that in many,
many, many ways, leading to 

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where he is right now. 
With Orca. 

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We're going to talk to him about
that. 

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He's a brilliant successful guy 
that we are so grateful to have 

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been introduced by accident to 
and he has taken time out of his

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extremely busy schedule, running
Oregon doing the things that he 

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does Lloyd. 
Freeze dr. 

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Lloyd Humphreys. 
Thank you so much for taking 

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time out of your day to be part 
of he cast today. 

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It's an absolute pleasure and 
it's probably the best intro 

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I've ever had. 
So I'm going to have the bottle 

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that and give that to everybody.
So, it's a total pleasure being 

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here today, 100% true, 100% 
true. 

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And the viewers listeners to 
this are going to see the 

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Brilliance. 
I don't normally take in 

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meetings when it comes to. 
He changed it stuff and I host 

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the podcast, I love it. 
I do my Lane, I stay in it and 

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But when Candice and and and 
some of her team had the meeting

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with Lloyd, I wanted to be a 
part of that. 

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And in that meeting I didn't say
anything. 

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I just listened and I'm so 
excited by that. 

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So all the words that I just 
said about you, Lloyd are 100% 

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true. 
I'm a massive admirer of you and

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I appreciate you very, very much
before we get into how you 

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discovered, he changed it in the
accolades that you gave to us. 

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Beautiful generous accolades 
that you gave to us that day, on

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on the CeCe, let's go into your 
history a little bit. 

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So you are a psychologist by 
trade. 

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Absolutely. 
So I'll try and get it's been a 

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bit of a strange old Journey if 
you like so. 

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And I started my career way 
back. 

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When I'm going to show my age 
many times through this. 

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I kind of started in research 
researching the effectiveness of

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different types of therapy, 
including cognitive behavioral 

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therapy for both trauma and 
schizophrenia as separately 

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because I was always Those kind 
of fascinated by really how we 

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can help the most people in the 
best possible way. 

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And so being part of that 
research brought me into that 

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space and then then I did my 
clinical training and I again 

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wanted to help the most 
underserved kind of populations 

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that there were. 
So I actually kind of took that,

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that, that sort of interest in 
post-traumatic stress and work 

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with refugees and 
asylum-seekers, non-english, 

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non-english speakers, torture 
survivors often having fled Kind

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of countries and I can set up 
one of the UK's first. 

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Refugees and Asylum. 
Seeker a Services up in Salford 

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and that was hugely kind of 
rewarding. 

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But what I realized is that 
people waiting several years to 

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see me because we didn't have 
the resources available. 

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The National Health Service, 
whilst it's unbelievable and one

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of the best health services in 
the world, it's still kind of 

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underfunded and under resource 
and fortunately so I can't let 

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the NHS and thought that there 
had to be a better way of doing 

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it. 
So I set up my own company where

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With another psychologist and 
took that scale. 

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And then I realize that actually
the number of people I could 

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help was directly related to the
number of people I could employ 

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and whilst that's kind of 
laudable in the fact that, you 

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know, we can kind of pass on 
those skills Etc. 

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To as many people as possible. 
Technology was really coming to 

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the Forefront and this is where 
I'm going to show my age. 

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This is around the time before 
the first iPhone was being 

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launched. 
And so we turned to technology 

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the and Myself and others 
co-created. 

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The the world's first online 
treatment program for addictions

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called breaking free online. 
Wow. 

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And it was just a really 
wonderful kind of way to be a 

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part of kind of delivering 
therapy in the the new 

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technology world and that can I 
ask you to pause for one second?

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How can I? 
Okay so I just I just got to ask

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a question about that and then I
want to hit unpause so you 

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continue on your story. 
The question I have is when you 

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created Breaking Free, Was there
red tape that you had to cut 

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through from people who just 
thought the old way? 

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They did not like the idea of 
maybe circumventing certain 

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processes that were traditional 
when it came to helping people 

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like was there was a did you 
meet resistance when you created

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that new way of helping folks 
who are dealing with addiction? 

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Well that pass? 
Way had been created previously,

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so we weren't will first to 
market in terms of dealing with 

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that particular cohort of 
difficulties. 

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But but up until that point 
there were, there were some 

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computerized treatments. 
There were coming through really

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early, what ones where you put a
floppy disk into a computer Etc.

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You know and actually being able
to do that in that way. 

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And some of those have really 
good evidence for their 

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effectiveness randomized, 
control trials. 

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You know hearing National 
Institute for clinical 

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Excellence, kind of approval, 
you know. 

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So the path of Been paid, but it
was still very early days. 

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Okay, so we had some proof 
points and then the way that we 

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created it was with and the 
reason we came to this idea as 

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we were creating this kind of 
therapeutic technique and we 

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created an 800 page manual and 
we just thought well actually 

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we're going to be doing training
for for kind of Staffing this 

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however psychologists or key 
workers Etc and we can't have 

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this 800 page manual. 
Why can't we computerised that 

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800 pages? 
And we just thought, well 

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actually that's me. 
More efficient, we can reach 

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more people, we can kind of and 
so so basically we took that and

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said, right, how do we then put 
that into an environment which 

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is accessible to all? 
And so we took those 

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evidence-based approaches and 
translated those so. 

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So existing therapeutic 
approaches and and it was really

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quite interesting, because I 
remember talking one time with 

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the vat man here, because we 
wanted to zero rate the, the tax

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on it, the VA T value, added tax
here in the UK. 

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Yeah. 
And and and one of the reasons, 

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the questions we had was, Will 
therapists there. 

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Zero rated they don't have to 
pay the 80. 

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And so we had the vat, man, come
to us and sit down and say, 

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well, this is software 
software's battable and we said,

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well, no, you know, this is 
therapy. 

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Yeah, they said well, no, it's 
not. 

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Let's do yourself therapy, but 
therapy, nonetheless. 

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And so we had a big long 
conversation and we had to 

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convince them that this was kind
of therapy rather than just 

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translating that man. 
Unusual into a book. 

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And so one of the key 
determinants of success in 

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therapy is your therapeutic 
relationship. 

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Your Therapeutic Alliance 
regardless of, kind of, 

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regardless of of the modality, 
Weber CBT mindfulness, or 

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whatever, your relationship with
your therapist is the biggest. 

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And so, we argued with the vat 
man that actually these days, 

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you have a better relationship 
with one of these than you do 

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with your therapist and I 
Illustrated it. 

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I said I said if you missed your
appointment your therapist how 

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would you feel? 
And he said well I feel Really 

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upset. 
And I said what was? 

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If you walk out the door and you
leave that at home and he goes 

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well I'd feel bereft and so it's
like that is your relationship. 

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Yep. 
And so and it was that sort of 

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conversation that allowed us to 
kind of say well actually no 

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this is a therapeutic. 
Kind of modality, you have a 

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better relationship this 
unfortunately and you know not 

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to my liking these days. 
You sometimes have a better 

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relationship with one of these 
and you do with with a person 

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and that that's wrong. 
And we need to kind of correct 

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that. 
But unfortunately, It's a sad 

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state of the world. 
Well it's a tool and I'm very 

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glad that we kind of went on 
this little aside here because 

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and I'm going to get the, you 
know, the entire he changed it 

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team to make sure and of course 
they listen to this and watch 

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all of these episodes multiple 
times. 

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Right guys. 
I'm gonna get the religion of 

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this because this is the whole 
reason why why he changed it 

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exists is because exactly what 
you're talking about. 

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The idea that I mean, don't get 
me wrong. 

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I also I'm a relationship guy. 
I love relationship. 

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It's It's one of my very 
favorite things. 

230
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Now, I also realize that that's 
also part of my personality 

231
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trait that's just part of who, 
what makes me who I am. 

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But at the end of the day, you 
know, as much as I might like my

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yoga teacher the discipline of 
doing yoga. 

234
00:12:45,500 --> 00:12:48,000
He, if I did it at home without 
a teacher, a teacher on the 

235
00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,900
screen, guess what? 
I'm probably going to make less 

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visits to the hospital for 
heart, related issues or 

237
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cardiovascular stuff or muscle 
things, or whatever, whether I'm

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doing the yoga at home or 
whether I'm doing the yoga. 

239
00:12:59,700 --> 00:13:02,800
In a studio where I have this 
personal connection, enhanced 

240
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connection with the yoga 
instructor and I think that I 

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think that translates to exactly
what you're talking about to 

242
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these little digital devices. 
You know there's a tremendous 

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amount of things that we can do 
for ourselves when it comes to 

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our mental health. 
That is kind of that 

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do-it-yourself sort of a thing. 
And it has all of the same 

246
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benefits. 
It sounds like you have, you 

247
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know, taking your machete and 
made a trail through the jungle 

248
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for us, coming along with what 
it Is that you were arguing or 

249
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what you were going through at 
that point? 

250
00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:36,500
Well, I think I think the the 
the really key thing here is 

251
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that that I realized that as a 
therapist we get to see a client

252
00:13:40,300 --> 00:13:45,100
for 45 minutes a week at best. 
What about all that space in 

253
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between that is dead space? 
You know, and this is where 

254
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technology really allows you to 
fill that space and in the 

255
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always-on environment therapy, 
typically is on or off your I've

256
00:13:57,700 --> 00:14:00,100
ever sat in front of the chair 
or you're not And that for 

257
00:14:00,100 --> 00:14:04,100
technology has the ability to 
match, you know, our day-to-day 

258
00:14:04,100 --> 00:14:09,800
life life and our existence are 
always on allies in that way. 

259
00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:13,700
And to then deliver help in that
environment there when you need 

260
00:14:13,700 --> 00:14:16,400
it. 
And so it's technology has such 

261
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an important role to play. 
It's not the Panacea, it's not 

262
00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:22,300
the be all and end all but it 
has such an important role. 

263
00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:24,700
It's a clear if it is 
absolutely. 

264
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And we have to meet people where
they are. 

265
00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:29,400
Yes! 
We can't make them come to us. 

266
00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:32,700
We I've to meet people where 
they are in whatever world. 

267
00:14:32,700 --> 00:14:36,900
They're occupying, my God. 
Like, like, I see, you're right 

268
00:14:36,900 --> 00:14:39,800
now. 
You could be part of a, he 

269
00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:42,100
changed it meeting right now 
because that's exactly what 

270
00:14:42,100 --> 00:14:44,200
they're trying to figure out as 
a roadmap this thing. 

271
00:14:44,300 --> 00:14:47,000
Okay. 
How can we put things into the 

272
00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:50,200
app to meet guys where they are 
to meet these creatures? 

273
00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:54,100
That many times bottle things, 
up push, things down. 

274
00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:57,800
Don't, you know, aren't 
necessarily the most vulnerable,

275
00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:02,600
like, vulnerability, isn't the 
Position with many Bend, how can

276
00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:07,300
we meet them where they are? 
And then extend a hand to lead 

277
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them to where they want to be, 
or need to be. 

278
00:15:09,900 --> 00:15:11,300
And how can we use technology to
do that? 

279
00:15:11,300 --> 00:15:14,200
These are the types of meetings 
that that they're having all the

280
00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:19,700
time to figure things out. 
I love that you are a Pioneer in

281
00:15:19,700 --> 00:15:21,200
this. 
Think it's safe to say. 

282
00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:24,700
I mean you I understand 
self-deprecation you are you 

283
00:15:24,700 --> 00:15:29,100
seem to be the king of it at the
end of the day, do you realize 

284
00:15:29,100 --> 00:15:33,400
that you were A really ahead of 
your time and a Pioneer in this 

285
00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:36,600
area. 
Well then about Pioneer, I knew 

286
00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:39,500
that we were ahead of our time 
because what we have to do is we

287
00:15:39,500 --> 00:15:42,200
had to wait often for the 
technology to catch us up. 

288
00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:45,800
So one of these things is when 
the first iPhone came out Maps, 

289
00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:49,000
didn't run in the background, 
you have to have it right there 

290
00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:52,400
on the screen for it to work 
nowadays, Maps, work, and every 

291
00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:56,000
app works in the background that
that just wasn't the case, you 

292
00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:58,400
know, up, even up until a few 
years ago. 

293
00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:02,200
And so we wanted the This 
technology to part of this was 

294
00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:06,200
to warn people when they might 
go past a risky place, that 

295
00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:11,300
might be, you know, you know, 
pass the bookmakers or pasta bar

296
00:16:11,300 --> 00:16:14,200
Pub or gas, there their 
ex-girlfriends and we wanted 

297
00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:16,300
them to put in all of their 
risky places. 

298
00:16:16,300 --> 00:16:19,200
I've been one of the, the, the 
device to a warn them and then 

299
00:16:19,300 --> 00:16:22,500
automatically do an action, call
a friend or take them on a 

300
00:16:22,508 --> 00:16:26,000
different route and none of that
was possible until the the kind 

301
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:28,300
of Technology caught up with us 
as soon as it did. 

302
00:16:28,300 --> 00:16:31,300
We plugged it in And we were, we
were able to go. 

303
00:16:31,300 --> 00:16:33,000
So, so yeah. 
Did I realize? 

304
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:34,600
We were early. 
Absolutely. 

305
00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:37,400
And it was frustrating to kind 
of, have to wait and, you know, 

306
00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:39,600
come on Apple, hurry up and do 
this for us because we've got 

307
00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:41,600
these great ideas, you need to 
make them happen. 

308
00:16:42,300 --> 00:16:45,300
So so absolutely. 
It was, it was, it was great. 

309
00:16:45,300 --> 00:16:49,800
Kind of in that space being able
to just think without the 

310
00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:52,800
constraints of kind of 
technology and saying, what 

311
00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,100
happens when this is, this is 
possible. 

312
00:16:55,300 --> 00:17:01,700
Yeah, what a great place to be. 
You know, my life's motto is 

313
00:17:01,700 --> 00:17:04,000
Don't focus on the is, don't 
focus on the problem, focus on 

314
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,500
the solution. 
And and and it seems to me that 

315
00:17:06,500 --> 00:17:10,800
that has been, you know, a 
driving force for you and for 

316
00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:12,300
your team of people for a long 
time. 

317
00:17:12,300 --> 00:17:17,900
Now, let's fast forward a little
bit here to Orca because you 

318
00:17:17,900 --> 00:17:20,200
have taken the idea that you've 
just talked about here. 

319
00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:24,599
And really expanded upon that 
idea with what Orchid does 

320
00:17:24,599 --> 00:17:27,400
because as this technology has 
shown up like I think about 

321
00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:31,700
Twitter for example, and At the 
very beginning of Twitter, I 

322
00:17:31,700 --> 00:17:35,200
would look at say my favorite, 
I'm a big music guy. 

323
00:17:35,300 --> 00:17:37,400
So, I would look at say it's say
it's Trent. 

324
00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:39,300
Reznor of Nine Inch Nails or 
something like that. 

325
00:17:39,300 --> 00:17:43,500
And he's got a Twitter account 
and suddenly I have this, the 

326
00:17:43,500 --> 00:17:47,900
the ways of the barriers of 
communication, even if it's just

327
00:17:47,900 --> 00:17:51,100
one way with some of my favorite
entities are people or whatever 

328
00:17:51,100 --> 00:17:55,000
out there have suddenly been 
removed and it's great. 

329
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,500
And it's like, oh my God, I can 
hear what Trent is doing now in 

330
00:17:58,500 --> 00:18:01,300
these in the studio. 
What he had for breakfast, if he

331
00:18:01,300 --> 00:18:05,700
chooses whatever, and this is 
great and at the beginning of it

332
00:18:05,700 --> 00:18:07,900
it's like okay this is awesome 
and I think the App Store was 

333
00:18:07,900 --> 00:18:11,000
very much like that as well. 
Now you fast forward a few years

334
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:15,300
and to say the least and I'm not
trying to offend anybody here 

335
00:18:15,300 --> 00:18:18,300
when I say this. 
But at the very least you got to

336
00:18:18,308 --> 00:18:20,900
take the good with the bat and 
sometimes there's a lot of bad 

337
00:18:20,900 --> 00:18:25,000
to sift through when you're when
you're going into a digital 

338
00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:28,500
space. 
Like Twitter, great idea. 

339
00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:31,800
Just like the Store great idea. 
But now we've got hundreds of 

340
00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:34,100
thousands of apps out there. 
Literally, I'm not even being 

341
00:18:34,100 --> 00:18:39,000
hyperbolas when I say that and 
and this is where Orca has found

342
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:41,500
a place. 
Am I painting the correct 

343
00:18:41,500 --> 00:18:43,300
picture here? 
Absolutely! 

344
00:18:43,300 --> 00:18:48,400
I'll fill in some of the color 
we do in terms of the number of 

345
00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:50,000
apps around. 
So, so we estimate that about 

346
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:53,800
365,000 digital Health apps on 
the market right now. 

347
00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,600
General Health apps. 
Oh yeah, absolutely. 

348
00:18:56,700 --> 00:18:58,100
Yeah. 
Did you talk Health apps? 

349
00:18:58,300 --> 00:19:04,300
Wow. 
In health and so at 365,000, 

350
00:19:04,300 --> 00:19:08,700
there's about 250 new ones every
single day. 

351
00:19:08,700 --> 00:19:13,600
So we you know so it's huge and 
there's some going off market in

352
00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,800
terms of zombies that kind of 
you know get get put it right 

353
00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,600
out there as bit about 250 new 
ones every single day. 

354
00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,600
So also be talking it's probably
around about ten apps that have 

355
00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:24,600
come onto the market somewhere 
in the world. 

356
00:19:24,700 --> 00:19:28,800
Holy and to give you an idea of 
that if we think about the 

357
00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:31,500
strange 160 Five thousand. 
Let's kind of think about 

358
00:19:31,500 --> 00:19:34,600
prescription medications. 
Not not it's a good analogy if 

359
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:38,300
you let me follow it through, 
you know 20,000 prescription 

360
00:19:38,300 --> 00:19:43,000
drugs on the market. 
And so, and yet, with 

361
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,600
prescription medications, you 
have huge amounts of Regulation.

362
00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,300
You have huge amounts of 
approval processes, something 

363
00:19:49,300 --> 00:19:52,100
goes wrong, we know about it 
instantly, you know which ones 

364
00:19:52,100 --> 00:19:56,200
to prescribe when to prescribe 
equally when not to prescribe 

365
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:58,900
but digital Health apps. 
And when we think about digital 

366
00:19:58,900 --> 00:20:02,700
Therapeutics as well, or 
Diagnostics your mole, tracking 

367
00:20:02,700 --> 00:20:05,600
app that is supposed to kind of 
check whether you have a skin 

368
00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:09,300
lesion or whether it's actually 
just a normal mole or other. 

369
00:20:09,500 --> 00:20:12,500
Her urine analysis, which tells 
you whether you've got a urinary

370
00:20:12,500 --> 00:20:16,000
tract infection UTI. 
So we've got these devices that 

371
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,500
are doing incredible, kind of 
things right now. 

372
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:23,200
But out of that 365,000, from 
our research in Orca stands, for

373
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:25,800
the organization, for the review
and care and health app. 

374
00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:27,400
So, it does to stand for 
something. 

375
00:20:27,700 --> 00:20:32,900
We found out of out of the apps 
that we have kind of assess only

376
00:20:32,900 --> 00:20:37,100
about 20% of Technologies on the
market reach any sort of 

377
00:20:37,100 --> 00:20:42,900
Baseline criteria for quality. 
which means 80% of those numbers

378
00:20:42,900 --> 00:20:46,700
that are on the market right 
now, our best ineffective, and 

379
00:20:46,700 --> 00:20:51,800
at worst dangerous and yet 
there's no regulation And so 

380
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:56,400
whilst devices aren't great, how
do we know which ones are the 

381
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:58,900
good quality ones versus the 
not? 

382
00:20:58,900 --> 00:21:02,000
So good, quality ones. 
And I'll give you a real good 

383
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,900
example of this, because we do a
lot of research in this area, 

384
00:21:05,700 --> 00:21:08,600
and it's in women's health, 
we've seen lots of kind of 

385
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,900
things. 
The news recently about Femme 

386
00:21:11,900 --> 00:21:15,700
Tech and data privacy. 
And so, we just did a piece of 

387
00:21:15,700 --> 00:21:18,200
research looking at period 
tracking apps. 

388
00:21:18,900 --> 00:21:23,300
And we found 24 out of the 25 
top apps were selling data for 

389
00:21:23,300 --> 00:21:27,900
marketing purposes. 
And so and that's just the tip 

390
00:21:27,900 --> 00:21:30,600
of the iceberg in terms of some 
of them and not all kids 

391
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:33,800
website, that reports there it's
been published kind of globally,

392
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:36,800
I think today it was published 
in French, you know, Etc. 

393
00:21:37,500 --> 00:21:41,800
And it just tells you that, you 
know, whilst in these are, you 

394
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:45,100
know, really kind of very 
significant, very well-funded, 

395
00:21:45,100 --> 00:21:49,600
kind of Technologies and people 
have no idea and obviously, you 

396
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:52,700
know, this kind of brings it 
into stark contrast when you 

397
00:21:52,700 --> 00:21:57,100
think about Wade versus Row in 
the US, Um in terms of that in 

398
00:21:57,108 --> 00:22:01,100
terms of how that data can be 
used and abused. 

399
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:05,400
And so it's really important 
that we have some of the 

400
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:10,500
Frameworks to determine what is 
a good quality app and how is it

401
00:22:10,500 --> 00:22:14,400
being used in various different 
ways and that's why Walker 

402
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:18,900
exists really to help people 
find assess and use great 

403
00:22:18,900 --> 00:22:23,500
quality digital health. 
I am blown away by by what you 

404
00:22:23,500 --> 00:22:27,500
just said for a variety of 
reasons. 80% that 80% number of 

405
00:22:27,500 --> 00:22:32,700
blows me away, 80% of the health
apps 300,000 plus Health apps 

406
00:22:32,700 --> 00:22:35,800
that are out there, 80% of them 
are ineffectual at best and 

407
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:39,100
damaging at worst. 
That is a crazy crazy stat. 

408
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:44,400
So again, thank you for being 
that sifter or that filter, you 

409
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:49,200
know, you're obviously providing
the world a service, you know. 

410
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:53,400
And next I got to speak to the 
data thing because you know, 

411
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,300
when Candice and her team sir, 
Building he changed it. 

412
00:22:56,308 --> 00:22:59,000
The whole idea was of course 
anonymity. 

413
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:03,100
You know you got a guy who's 
just been cheated on loses, his 

414
00:23:03,100 --> 00:23:07,400
job did something bad might be 
overdosing. 

415
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,900
Or I mean and I mean I don't 
want to go that extreme with 

416
00:23:09,900 --> 00:23:13,400
this because you know obviously 
in some of those situations go 

417
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:17,300
to a hospital, you know but at 
the end of the day guys who are 

418
00:23:17,300 --> 00:23:21,200
living the quiet lives of 
desperation to take a step out 

419
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:25,200
to be vulnerable and then to 
potentially have that 

420
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:26,600
combination Back and bite him in
the ass. 

421
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:31,100
That was a huge, huge, huge 
thing, and I'll be perfectly 

422
00:23:31,100 --> 00:23:33,000
Frank. 
One of the reasons that I think 

423
00:23:33,300 --> 00:23:35,500
that that and I don't know 
anything. 

424
00:23:35,500 --> 00:23:37,400
I'm just, you know, I'm just 
gonna Hostess podcast. 

425
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:41,900
But from a, from an opinion, one
of the things that I reasons 

426
00:23:41,900 --> 00:23:44,800
why, I think that we're having a
hard time, not a hard time, but 

427
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:48,800
it's a longer Road getting 
funded is because the 

428
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:53,200
low-hanging fruit in the digital
world is retrieving and 

429
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,400
utilizing and leveraging 
people's personal. 

430
00:23:55,500 --> 00:23:58,800
Data, which is the exact 
opposite of what we want to do 

431
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,200
with this thing, we want to 
provide Tools in a way where we 

432
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:08,900
don't do that and I think that 
that is the new privacy isn't is

433
00:24:08,900 --> 00:24:11,600
on a digital scale. 
So what you're talking about 

434
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:16,900
here is I think extremely 
important and most of us when we

435
00:24:16,900 --> 00:24:20,000
download an app, we don't even 
that doesn't even hit our radar.

436
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:25,200
We have no idea, the profile 
they're building on us, and 

437
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:29,100
then, Then selling it too many 
times just whoever is a bitter. 

438
00:24:30,100 --> 00:24:33,300
I think that's a really 
important thing when you talk 

439
00:24:33,300 --> 00:24:36,600
about this stuff and I'm really 
glad that you guys track this 

440
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:38,900
kind of stuff, it's really 
important. 

441
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,800
So those are the two responses 
to what you just said. 

442
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:46,600
I mean I think it's going to be.
The next Battleground is privacy

443
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:50,300
is digital privacy is a 
Battleground that that is is 

444
00:24:50,300 --> 00:24:54,300
it's a war that we got to take 
very seriously because we'll get

445
00:24:54,300 --> 00:24:56,300
swept away if we don't. 
It seriously. 

446
00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,500
Absolutely. 
And I think it's about having 

447
00:25:00,500 --> 00:25:03,500
the transparency around that 
because sometimes, you know, 

448
00:25:03,500 --> 00:25:06,100
I'll sign up for something, I 
don't mind them using some of my

449
00:25:06,100 --> 00:25:08,200
data for certain purposes. 
Yeah. 

450
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:12,300
You know and and but it's about 
knowing what data I'm giving for

451
00:25:12,300 --> 00:25:15,200
why and for what purposes and 
how that might come back and 

452
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,700
bite me and and privacy by 
design that you know, these are 

453
00:25:18,700 --> 00:25:22,400
just fundamental kind of 
principles that we need to to 

454
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:23,600
have built-in. 
Yeah. 

455
00:25:23,900 --> 00:25:27,100
But transparency as As well. 
And it's really important. 

456
00:25:27,100 --> 00:25:31,500
This is when we assess a 
technology we kind of look for 

457
00:25:31,500 --> 00:25:34,900
the intended purpose because not
all technologies that apps are 

458
00:25:34,908 --> 00:25:37,400
created equally. 
You know, on one hand you've got

459
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,800
a diagnostic as I said the mole 
tracking app or diagnostic, a 

460
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:42,600
triage tool. 
That tells you what treatment 

461
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,700
you can have all the way down to
perhaps an information or 

462
00:25:45,700 --> 00:25:49,700
signposting, and you've got 
digital Therapeutics in between,

463
00:25:49,700 --> 00:25:52,700
you've got come workflow or 
information, you know, you've 

464
00:25:52,700 --> 00:25:54,200
got all manner of different 
types. 

465
00:25:54,300 --> 00:25:57,900
So we kind of Is the bait based 
on what we call? 

466
00:25:57,900 --> 00:26:01,600
Nice ESF framework. 
So basically four levels and 

467
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:05,200
therefore, you can assess that 
in terms of well, actually, if 

468
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,600
I've got sensitive medical 
information, the Privacy has to 

469
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,000
ratchet right up. 
Whereas he has just an 

470
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,600
information where someone's 
looking for information than the

471
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:16,600
Privacy is going to be less 
because you're giving less 

472
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,400
sensitive data or way. 
So sure, it's really important 

473
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:23,600
that we have a proportional 
response when we when we assess 

474
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,700
Technologies and when we look at
them, Because the risks are very

475
00:26:26,700 --> 00:26:28,700
different. 
Depending on the intended, 

476
00:26:28,700 --> 00:26:32,000
purpose, behind the, I 
appreciate where you're coming 

477
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,200
from on this, you are nothing 
short of an expert on this. 

478
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,600
And I want to talk about orca 
and what it's the impact that 

479
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,600
it's made. 
When did orca start? 

480
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:45,300
So, six years ago. 
So with the founders is actual 

481
00:26:45,300 --> 00:26:49,400
pain and Tim Andrews. 
So I was brought in just over a 

482
00:26:49,408 --> 00:26:52,800
year ago now to help work with 
the founders, the scale of the 

483
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,300
company as you kind of heard 
from my history. 

484
00:26:55,900 --> 00:26:59,400
Having a been around the block, 
a couple of times having scaled 

485
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,000
different Technologies. 
They wanted me to kind of help 

486
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:04,900
help lead the charge with with 
them. 

487
00:27:04,900 --> 00:27:08,700
And it's been an honor, a 
privilege to do so, but it's 

488
00:27:08,700 --> 00:27:12,100
been around for six years. 
It powered the first NHS 

489
00:27:12,100 --> 00:27:15,700
National Health Service here in 
the UK apps library and that's 

490
00:27:15,700 --> 00:27:19,500
where it started and started to 
design these kind of digital 

491
00:27:19,500 --> 00:27:25,500
Health Frameworks and we're on 
version 6 right now. 6.1 and Um,

492
00:27:25,500 --> 00:27:28,100
there, we've grown across 12 
different countries. 

493
00:27:28,100 --> 00:27:31,700
So we work with governments 
hospitals, Health Systems to 

494
00:27:31,700 --> 00:27:33,400
help them Define. 
What? 

495
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:37,500
What good looks like for them. 
I'm going to ask you this as a 

496
00:27:37,500 --> 00:27:38,800
man. 
Now, you can take off a 

497
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,000
psychology, you know, all the 
markers and things like, I'm 

498
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,300
going to ask you as a man. 
How good did it feel it? 

499
00:27:45,300 --> 00:27:49,000
Does it feel to be at a place 
where a company would would 

500
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,100
bring you in? 
Because of who you are, and what

501
00:27:51,100 --> 00:27:53,600
you've done? 
How good does it feel? 

502
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:55,300
When a company kind of TAPS you 
on the shoulder? 

503
00:27:55,500 --> 00:28:00,100
And says, hey we need help 
scaling to go from one place to 

504
00:28:00,100 --> 00:28:01,900
the next level. 
We want to vastly improve. 

505
00:28:01,900 --> 00:28:04,000
We want to make it take a couple
steps forward. 

506
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,700
We believe you're someone that 
can help us do that. 

507
00:28:06,900 --> 00:28:09,100
How good does it feel to be that
guy? 

508
00:28:09,700 --> 00:28:14,400
So it's as I said it's a great 
honor and a privilege to be a 

509
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,400
part of someone's journey and 
you know, to help bring 

510
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:21,300
someone's Vision to life. 
It's wonderful to be part of 

511
00:28:21,300 --> 00:28:25,300
that Journey, you said, take off
the therapists have but I always

512
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,400
We thought that it was a 
privilege to be joining, 

513
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:32,800
someone's Journey back to bed of
mental health and it's no 

514
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,700
different in terms of here, it's
just wonderful to see people's 

515
00:28:36,700 --> 00:28:39,100
Visions come to life, 
particularly when it can have 

516
00:28:39,100 --> 00:28:42,100
such a positive impact on the 
world. 

517
00:28:42,100 --> 00:28:45,600
So it gives you that warm fuzzy 
feeling that, you know, good 

518
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,200
quite up quite honestly, it's 
great. 

519
00:28:48,700 --> 00:28:50,700
Yeah. 
Well being part of people's 

520
00:28:50,700 --> 00:28:53,400
Journeys, I think is, is the 
essence of what he changed? 

521
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:55,300
It is, you know, I mean, 
obviously we want to have, 

522
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:57,300
Tools. 
You know we've already got the 

523
00:28:57,300 --> 00:28:59,600
course from the Canadian Mental,
Health Association in there and 

524
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:01,300
hopefully that's the first of 
many courses. 

525
00:29:01,300 --> 00:29:04,600
It's all example, the app, our 
app is all examples right now. 

526
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,200
It really at the end of the day,
I mean it's an app that my wife 

527
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,000
and her team have built 
literally, you know, there's 

528
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,900
been no investment. 
It's been, it's a ground. 

529
00:29:12,900 --> 00:29:16,000
Swell idea, is really, really 
what it is. 

530
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,600
But when you look at some of 
these tools that are being put 

531
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,700
into it, from different 
organizations in different 

532
00:29:21,700 --> 00:29:24,700
groups, and resources of all 
different sorts from physical to

533
00:29:24,700 --> 00:29:27,300
emotional, All mental health 
stuff, all the stuff that wants 

534
00:29:27,300 --> 00:29:32,000
to go in there but the community
I think is also going to be it's

535
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:36,800
already been and it's going to 
be a key component because there

536
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:38,800
is that part we talk about 
vulnerability all the time. 

537
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:40,100
And actually I'm going to ask 
you this because you have a 

538
00:29:40,108 --> 00:29:43,800
professional opinion on this. 
I have I would submit to you. 

539
00:29:44,100 --> 00:29:46,500
That vulnerability is a is a 
silver bullet. 

540
00:29:46,500 --> 00:29:49,200
It's been probably out of the 
hundred and some odd episodes. 

541
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,400
We've done 115. 
Now, maybe vulnerability has 

542
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,000
come up so many times. 
No matter if it's a, if it's a 

543
00:29:55,700 --> 00:29:58,500
An athletic coach versus a life 
coach versus a therapist versus 

544
00:29:58,700 --> 00:30:01,500
vulnerability has always come up
especially for men, how it can 

545
00:30:01,500 --> 00:30:04,700
be a silver. 
Bullet leading to feeling 

546
00:30:04,700 --> 00:30:08,600
better, and living better. 
And I think you would agree on 

547
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:12,200
that vulnerabilities is a huge 
key, right? 

548
00:30:12,700 --> 00:30:17,100
Absolutely. 
I mean, I could not agree more 

549
00:30:17,100 --> 00:30:19,800
in terms of vulnerability. 
I think we have to kind of 

550
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,400
acknowledge that, you know, you 
know, I for my professional. 

551
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,200
I can answer that from a 
psychological. 

552
00:30:25,300 --> 00:30:27,900
Cool perspective from a 
professional or a personal being

553
00:30:27,900 --> 00:30:32,000
a survivor of domestic violence,
myself, and having gone through 

554
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,500
that, and having to be very 
vulnerable, having the stigma 

555
00:30:35,500 --> 00:30:39,700
associated with, with admitting 
that or having the stigma or or 

556
00:30:39,700 --> 00:30:43,300
the ability to overcome 
incredibly kind of difficult 

557
00:30:43,700 --> 00:30:48,000
situations. 
So so I think as a man we have 

558
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,400
to kind of open ourselves to 
that vulnerability. 

559
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,600
We have to acknowledge that 
actually, sometimes we need 

560
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,500
help. 
Sometimes there's all manners of

561
00:30:57,500 --> 00:31:00,300
ways. 
We can gain that help whether 

562
00:31:00,300 --> 00:31:01,900
it's through technology, or 
whether it's through our 

563
00:31:01,900 --> 00:31:04,100
relationships, a combination of 
both. 

564
00:31:04,700 --> 00:31:07,000
Whether it's self-discovery. 
I think there's any number of 

565
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,800
ways to do that. 
But the first step is to admit 

566
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:13,800
that we're fallible. 
Yes, absolutely critical well. 

567
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,300
And I appreciate you saying 
that. 

568
00:31:16,700 --> 00:31:21,000
Now, here's the thing that I 
would submit to you and I gotta,

569
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,500
I gotta, I want to test this. 
It's like it's like a theory 

570
00:31:23,500 --> 00:31:25,800
that I've been thrown around for
a while and Throwing speed 

571
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:27,500
against the wall. 
You're the guy that can actually

572
00:31:27,500 --> 00:31:30,500
tell me if it's going to stick 
or not, you know, it 

573
00:31:30,500 --> 00:31:33,800
professionally and, and, and 
personally, for that matter. 

574
00:31:33,900 --> 00:31:37,800
So, so when you talk about being
part of someone's journey and 

575
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,000
how much of an honor it is, and 
how you get the warm and fuzzies

576
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:45,000
for that, the idea of helping a 
guy who's going through 

577
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:50,400
something and helping him. 
He doesn't know what not moment 

578
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:52,300
that he's going to get to the 
other side. 

579
00:31:52,300 --> 00:31:54,000
You know? 
There's all sorts of ways that 

580
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,200
we described it, the quiet life 
Aspiration or the Epic event. 

581
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,300
That's happened to him suddenly 
and he doesn't know how he's 

582
00:31:59,300 --> 00:32:02,300
going to get through it and when
somebody kind of takes his hand 

583
00:32:02,300 --> 00:32:05,200
links his arm, whatever the 
analogy and helps walk him 

584
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,900
through that those warm and 
fuzzies happen for the person 

585
00:32:08,900 --> 00:32:12,300
who helped him as well as the 
guy who is now in a better spot.

586
00:32:12,300 --> 00:32:17,000
So, here's what, here's what I 
want to submit The Stereotype or

587
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:20,000
the stigma, which he changed. 
It is doing, its very best to 

588
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,900
obliterate and change in the 
entire world. 

589
00:32:25,700 --> 00:32:30,300
The stigma is that men are not 
vulnerable creatures by default.

590
00:32:30,300 --> 00:32:34,500
And I oppose that idea, and this
is what I want to throw at you. 

591
00:32:34,900 --> 00:32:37,800
I think men are vulnerable all 
the time, especially when we're 

592
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:39,300
coming from a position of 
strength. 

593
00:32:40,500 --> 00:32:44,200
The example, I use, if I walk 
outside my house and I see a guy

594
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:47,000
whitewashing his fence, you 
know, Tom Sawyer to style from 

595
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:49,500
back in the day. 
He's whitewashing his fence and 

596
00:32:49,500 --> 00:32:53,300
I say, say, I'm a professional 
white washer and I see what he's

597
00:32:53,300 --> 00:32:55,200
doing. 
And I see two or three. 

598
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,400
Till mistakes that he is doing 
it. 

599
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:02,000
In fact, I see something that if
he just tweaked something just a

600
00:33:02,008 --> 00:33:04,400
little bit, he could do the job 
in half the time. 

601
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:09,800
I'm naturally inclined to walk 
over to him and say, hey, if you

602
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,600
just did this, your job would be
that much easier. 

603
00:33:13,300 --> 00:33:16,300
That's me being vulnerable, 
that's me, taking something that

604
00:33:16,300 --> 00:33:20,700
I know personally and sharing it
with some that is a natural 

605
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:22,900
vulnerability. 
Inclination. 

606
00:33:23,900 --> 00:33:28,000
I think that the problem is Is 
is it's one more week that 

607
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:30,700
that's when we bought a things 
out, that's when we close things

608
00:33:30,700 --> 00:33:31,700
up. 
While we're going through 

609
00:33:31,700 --> 00:33:34,500
something, that's the time where
we have a tough time, being 

610
00:33:34,500 --> 00:33:36,600
vulnerable. 
So if we create a space where 

611
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:40,300
there are guys who are okay in 
certain areas, but then they 

612
00:33:40,300 --> 00:33:45,400
encounter guys who are not okay?
In the same area you now have 

613
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:50,900
this mix of I can be vulnerable 
from a place of I'm okay and mix

614
00:33:51,500 --> 00:33:55,900
and encourage the guy who might 
just be a lurker You might just 

615
00:33:55,900 --> 00:33:59,800
look and see the example, and 
then internalize it, and then 

616
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,700
make some decisions or he may be
brave enough to move forward and

617
00:34:02,700 --> 00:34:04,600
to actually engage with that 
person. 

618
00:34:04,900 --> 00:34:07,400
I don't know if any of that 
makes sense, but to me, I think 

619
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:11,600
being vulnerable happened, it's 
a more nuanced thing than we 

620
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:16,900
sometimes give it credit. 
For I agree, in lots of ways 

621
00:34:16,900 --> 00:34:20,800
with that. 
I think often we can see. 

622
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:24,900
This was so many movements and 
it's wonderful to see people 

623
00:34:24,900 --> 00:34:28,600
being being empowered to talk 
about different areas of 

624
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,100
societal Norms that need 
changing. 

625
00:34:32,100 --> 00:34:35,699
And I think it's kind of really 
happening over the last five 

626
00:34:35,699 --> 00:34:38,400
years where it's okay to 
challenge. 

627
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:42,100
The status quo, is it okay to 
challenge our societal norms? 

628
00:34:42,300 --> 00:34:44,699
And I think there's no 
difference here and you're right

629
00:34:44,699 --> 00:34:47,400
in the sense that is when we 
feel weak that we kind of cloak 

630
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:51,900
close ranks because the site or 
societal Norms, tell us that's 

631
00:34:51,900 --> 00:34:55,100
kind of how we should be and we 
should fight the natural state. 

632
00:34:55,300 --> 00:34:59,100
What you're talking about. 
So you know this is why I think 

633
00:34:59,100 --> 00:35:01,800
he changed. 
It is so fabulous in that way, 

634
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:05,700
because it's challenging those 
societal norms and we need to do

635
00:35:05,700 --> 00:35:07,900
that in so many different 
spheres. 

636
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:12,000
And this is one that I think is 
really important to do. 

637
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,500
So, as well and to go back to 
the point. 

638
00:35:14,500 --> 00:35:17,800
And, you know, in terms of you 
changed it using examples, to 

639
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,200
kind of guy think that's 
incredibly powerful because it 

640
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:25,100
normalizes in d.c. stigmatizes 
people's experiences. 

641
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:30,600
It's to say, hey, it's okay and 
that's really part part of the 

642
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:32,800
journey, that's the start of the
journey to set. 

643
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,200
They it's okay. 
This is normal. 

644
00:35:35,700 --> 00:35:41,100
Yeah, and that's, that's really 
incredibly powerful and hats off

645
00:35:41,100 --> 00:35:43,400
to to what you've managed to 
achieve. 

646
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:46,700
I mentioned kind of on the he 
changed it on the BBC. 

647
00:35:46,700 --> 00:35:50,000
I asked the team, it was Men's 
Health week and I wanted the 

648
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,500
team to pull out. 
You know, the top-rated digital 

649
00:35:53,500 --> 00:35:57,100
Health apps supporting them. 
That means help me and he 

650
00:35:57,100 --> 00:36:00,100
changed it bubbled to the 
surface and and there was such 

651
00:36:00,100 --> 00:36:03,000
that what what kind of stuck out
was there was so few. 

652
00:36:03,500 --> 00:36:06,500
Yes. 
So few Technologies and so you 

653
00:36:06,500 --> 00:36:09,400
were kind of a shining beacon in
that way and to be able to do 

654
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,300
that and to score. 
As highly as you did orchids, 

655
00:36:12,300 --> 00:36:16,200
are cut off the 65%. 
So anything below, 65 percent 

656
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:19,600
doesn't make it onto our digital
formulas and are at libraries 

657
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:24,100
and and 72% is a great score and
that's what he changed it got. 

658
00:36:24,100 --> 00:36:28,100
So it means that You've managed 
to overcome a huge number of 

659
00:36:28,300 --> 00:36:32,400
technical professional, you 
know, hurdles and barriers so 

660
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:36,100
you know to do what you've done.
Is is absolutely kind of 

661
00:36:36,100 --> 00:36:38,800
fabulous. 
I've got the goose bumps now, 

662
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,200
and of the same Goosebumps 
because I'm in the same studio 

663
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:42,700
right now. 
We're in our home studio, which 

664
00:36:42,700 --> 00:36:45,500
is again, as he changed it 
scales, all, this is going to 

665
00:36:45,500 --> 00:36:47,500
scale and all the things that we
do are going to look. 

666
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,400
I mean, this looks great right 
now with the aspirations that we

667
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:52,700
have, it's going to look so much
better. 

668
00:36:52,700 --> 00:36:56,100
The next time you come on this 
show and I Presupposing that 

669
00:36:56,100 --> 00:37:00,800
you'll come on again, sir, the 
the Goosebumps that I have right

670
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:02,500
now are the exact same 
Goosebumps that day. 

671
00:37:02,500 --> 00:37:05,500
We were in the studio and they 
came rushing down and said, oh 

672
00:37:05,500 --> 00:37:07,100
my God. 
He changed just got mentioned on

673
00:37:07,100 --> 00:37:09,600
the BBC. 
And as we explored what that 

674
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:11,200
mentioned was, which you just 
summed it up. 

675
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:14,700
So beautifully. 
The fact that we are, are, are 

676
00:37:14,700 --> 00:37:18,200
in many ways. 
We're like, indie rock, you 

677
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:20,100
know. 
We're, we just put a track out 

678
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:25,600
and, and the fact that track got
noticed by the BB is As big as 

679
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:29,200
the BBC and mentioned or lure 
played on the BBC, Hey, listen 

680
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:33,900
to the new hot Indie song that's
out there without us, you know, 

681
00:37:33,900 --> 00:37:36,700
even working in conjunction. 
And now the idea that we could 

682
00:37:36,700 --> 00:37:40,000
maybe link arms with Orca or 
somehow linked arms with you or 

683
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:45,600
whatever, to take that score and
and increase it exponentially as

684
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,600
we scale this thing because 
that's our next problem is, is 

685
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:50,900
how do we, how do we scale? 
This thing? 

686
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:55,100
You know, we had one advisor, 
say to Candy to canvas. 

687
00:37:55,300 --> 00:37:58,600
Team, you know hey guys what 
you're doing isn't low-hanging 

688
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:02,600
fruit for a variety of reasons. 
You know the stigma is like you 

689
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:05,600
talked about the fact that we're
not trying to do data stuff that

690
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:09,300
that stuff too. 
But it's not a little hanging 

691
00:38:09,300 --> 00:38:15,200
fruit but the orchards are full 
and and and you don't even 

692
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:18,200
understand the shot in the arm. 
It was when you went on and you 

693
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:21,600
talked about how we bubbled to 
the surface, you know it wasn't 

694
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:26,400
our intention to do that, but 
the fact that we did And that's 

695
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:28,900
how we became even aware of 
orca. 

696
00:38:28,900 --> 00:38:32,700
Oh my God, the shot in the arm. 
So I mean I I'm certain that 

697
00:38:32,700 --> 00:38:35,800
there are a lot of unintended 
consequences, positive and 

698
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:39,300
negative but positive, let's 
focus on that with orcas scaling

699
00:38:39,300 --> 00:38:41,500
the way that it has in doing 
what it's been doing. 

700
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,600
I mean, I don't think that you 
necessarily had the consequence 

701
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:50,600
that you can give a shot in the 
arm of excitement and support. 

702
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:54,000
And when your ass as you know, 
and there are people out there 

703
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,800
who are founders or Who are you 
know, business owners who listen

704
00:38:57,800 --> 00:38:59,500
to this thing right now and 
you're grinding it out. 

705
00:38:59,500 --> 00:39:02,200
Hey the shout-out to the 
Grinders who are listening to 

706
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:04,600
this right now, whether you're 
building a construction company 

707
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:07,500
or a, you know, accounting firm 
or whatever. 

708
00:39:07,500 --> 00:39:10,100
If you're out there, trying to 
build something or a tech 

709
00:39:10,100 --> 00:39:14,100
company being a Founder is a 
lonely road and, and, and 

710
00:39:14,100 --> 00:39:18,800
hearing bits of encouragement 
like that from outside 

711
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:20,200
organizations, or groups that 
take. 

712
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:23,400
Kind of look at you and go, hey,
I see what you're doing, the 

713
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:28,200
shot in the arm that that Guides
for these Founders is nothing 

714
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,200
short of. 
It's like a, it's like an 

715
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:33,700
adrenaline shot. 
And that's what you gave to the 

716
00:39:33,700 --> 00:39:35,900
entire team that day and you did
that. 

717
00:39:35,900 --> 00:39:38,700
So I don't know that you 
intended on doing that, but in 

718
00:39:38,700 --> 00:39:41,500
that, you did it for us. 
So I got to say on behalf of 

719
00:39:41,500 --> 00:39:44,300
everybody. 
Thank you for that Lloyd. 

720
00:39:44,300 --> 00:39:48,200
We really appreciate that. 
Well, then it's my pleasure and 

721
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:52,200
we're a mission, LED company and
I'm mission is to improve lives 

722
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:54,700
through technology. 
It's not too kind of shine a 

723
00:39:54,707 --> 00:39:59,200
light On the the 80% of terrible
is to help those 80% get into 

724
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:02,800
the twenty percent, you know, 
and so address that balance and 

725
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,800
so when you say, you know, you 
want to improve that score. 

726
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:07,300
That's great. 
That's what we want to do. 

727
00:40:07,500 --> 00:40:10,500
It's not to say, don't use this 
Technologies to the technology 

728
00:40:10,500 --> 00:40:14,000
is like, you know, these are the
ways that you can improve this 

729
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:17,200
to actually really help the 
people that you intend to. 

730
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:22,000
Because in reality almost no one
sets out to create a terrible 

731
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,000
app. 
You know, there are a few bad 

732
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:27,800
actors but but that That's such 
an infinitesimally small kind of

733
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:30,600
Number. 
The vast majority set out to 

734
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:35,300
create a technology. 
They've seen an unmet need and 

735
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,000
do, you know, they don't know 
how to necessarily bring that to

736
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:39,800
life. 
It might be a health care 

737
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:43,100
professional or or someone who's
identified of need that doesn't 

738
00:40:43,100 --> 00:40:46,000
understand the technical side of
it or it might be a technologist

739
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:48,900
that things as an unmet need but
hasn't really tested that out in

740
00:40:48,900 --> 00:40:51,400
the world in terms of 
professional and the magic 

741
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,000
happens when you bring those two
types of people together. 

742
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:57,700
So so our Is to help 
Technologies bubble to the 

743
00:40:57,700 --> 00:41:01,000
surface to shine a light on 
those Technologies and to help 

744
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:04,100
those other Technologies to get 
to where they need to be. 

745
00:41:04,100 --> 00:41:07,500
And that's our guiding Mission. 
It's not to Mark, someone's 

746
00:41:07,500 --> 00:41:10,100
homework. 
It's genuinely to improve lives 

747
00:41:10,100 --> 00:41:12,800
through technology. 
Well, and once again, I go back 

748
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,600
to the dorm focus on the 
problem, focus on the solution 

749
00:41:16,100 --> 00:41:18,100
moniker. 
And and that's exactly what 

750
00:41:18,100 --> 00:41:21,100
you're doing. 
I love that before we hit the 

751
00:41:21,100 --> 00:41:24,900
record button, we talked a 
little bit about, you know, the 

752
00:41:24,900 --> 00:41:28,500
he I changed it. 
Found her my wife and her her 

753
00:41:28,500 --> 00:41:32,400
history and how she worked with 
with, with, in the charity 

754
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,500
sectors. 
The nonprofit sectors. 

755
00:41:35,900 --> 00:41:38,300
I love, you know. 
And don't get me wrong, 

756
00:41:38,300 --> 00:41:42,000
everybody who is out there doing
charity, work and nonprofit 

757
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,600
work. 
You know, for the right reasons 

758
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:47,400
for the right intentions, that's
phenomenal, phenomenal. 

759
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:53,000
Now, many times though, and the 
idea of social Enterprise versus

760
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:58,200
charity, you know, I love that. 
You also kind of think the same 

761
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:00,700
way that we do when it comes to 
this with Candace. 

762
00:42:00,700 --> 00:42:05,000
She's like, okay as the he 
changed it inspiration 

763
00:42:05,700 --> 00:42:06,900
overwhelmed. 
Her. 

764
00:42:07,300 --> 00:42:12,600
It was instantaneous for her 
that as opposed to coming into 

765
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:17,900
as a charity, which many times 
relies for a charity to continue

766
00:42:17,900 --> 00:42:23,000
to exist, it relies on the 
problem existing and if their 

767
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,800
mandate isn't to put themselves 
out of business, By solving the 

768
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:31,400
problem there's an inherent flaw
in that you know, you're a firm 

769
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:37,000
believer in that same that same 
principle I am, I would love to 

770
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:41,200
be in a world where he change, 
it wasn't needed, and didn't 

771
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:44,000
exist. 
Yep, that's the world that I 

772
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:49,200
want to live in quite frankly. 
And and again, going back to my 

773
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:53,800
clinical days, I would always 
introduce myself to someone who 

774
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:57,300
came to see me and I would say, 
Look, you know, my job is to do 

775
00:42:57,300 --> 00:42:59,300
myself out of one so let's work 
together. 

776
00:42:59,300 --> 00:43:03,700
So I'm not needed and I would 
follow that up because I said I 

777
00:43:03,707 --> 00:43:06,400
would love to be unemployed and 
be on the beach somewhere 

778
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:09,100
because my services weren't 
needed anymore. 

779
00:43:09,300 --> 00:43:10,900
Yeah. 
Because what a wonderful place 

780
00:43:10,900 --> 00:43:15,300
that would be and but 
unfortunately, I am needed and I

781
00:43:15,300 --> 00:43:19,200
was and, you know, he changed it
is needed. 

782
00:43:19,300 --> 00:43:22,100
It would be fantastic if if that
wasn't the case. 

783
00:43:22,100 --> 00:43:24,900
And so we must always kind of 
strive to do. 

784
00:43:25,100 --> 00:43:26,800
Ourselves out of a job. 
Yes. 

785
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:30,700
And and if that's our end point 
than, that's the great point. 

786
00:43:30,700 --> 00:43:34,400
It's when it's so fulfilling and
you're on this kind of cycle 

787
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:37,000
that one begets, the other that 
you get trapped. 

788
00:43:37,100 --> 00:43:39,600
Yeah. 
And that's kind of not the place

789
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:41,800
that I want to be. 
Yeah. 

790
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:43,900
And that's how we're looking at 
this as well. 

791
00:43:44,700 --> 00:43:48,500
Very, very exciting times that 
there are folks out there. 

792
00:43:48,500 --> 00:43:52,700
And I mean, I'm not trying to 
be, I'm not trying to sound self

793
00:43:52,700 --> 00:43:56,700
magnanimous, and seeing this, 
because we have Into so many 

794
00:43:56,700 --> 00:43:59,400
people in organizations that are
doing exactly what you're 

795
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:01,600
talking about. 
Trying to work themselves out of

796
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:04,000
a job or work themselves into a 
place where what they do has to 

797
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:07,200
be pivoted, because it is job, 
well done. 

798
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:10,600
That's, I love working with 
people like that. 

799
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:13,400
And, you know, that phrase, the 
fisherman can always recognize 

800
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:15,800
another fisherman, we recognize 
that in you, and with 

801
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:19,600
immediately. 
And it's so cool to see that. 

802
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:25,000
And we appreciate that, that, 
that kinship I got to be very 

803
00:44:25,100 --> 00:44:26,700
Very respectful of your time 
here. 

804
00:44:26,700 --> 00:44:30,300
And I want to utilize the fact 
that we're also talking to a 

805
00:44:30,308 --> 00:44:33,700
world-class therapist here and 
there are guys out there who 

806
00:44:33,700 --> 00:44:39,600
are, well, I do and it's okay. 
You be, as you want, I'll be, 

807
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:43,500
I'll be your hype man Lloyd very
much David to carry you around 

808
00:44:43,500 --> 00:44:45,100
in my pocket permanently. 
Don't I? 

809
00:44:45,300 --> 00:44:48,400
It's my, it's my pleasure and 
and I'll throw this out there, 

810
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:50,000
too, because I can, I can do 
this. 

811
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:52,200
I can say the politically 
incorrect things are the things 

812
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:54,700
that might not corporately be 
the right thing because I'm just

813
00:44:54,700 --> 00:44:56,500
the whole The podcast I can say 
this. 

814
00:44:56,700 --> 00:44:59,400
Hopefully, we partner up more 
and we can create opportunities 

815
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:02,400
to do that. 
I would love, love love that. 

816
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:07,000
I would love to be if he changed
it, can be even Mentor or 

817
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:10,300
partnered somehow with you along
the way, even if it's just you 

818
00:45:10,300 --> 00:45:14,500
coming on the podcast, again, 
whatever that is. 

819
00:45:14,500 --> 00:45:16,600
I'm just going to throw that out
to the universe right now 

820
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:19,600
because we just, we just 
appreciate it so much. 

821
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:21,900
And, again, a fisherman 
recognizes another fisherman. 

822
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:26,200
Now, the therapist hat, There 
are guys out there that are 

823
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:30,100
listening to this podcast, who 
might be dealing with something 

824
00:45:30,100 --> 00:45:34,500
that they're overwhelmed by. 
And and many times when we are 

825
00:45:34,500 --> 00:45:39,000
overwhelmed as men, we do bury 
it down, we don't talk about it.

826
00:45:40,300 --> 00:45:44,600
You know, I know it's a loaded 
question and it's a wide open 

827
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:48,200
field without a lot of 
parameters, but but if there's a

828
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:51,500
guy out there that's listening 
to this right now, what are some

829
00:45:51,500 --> 00:45:55,300
of the fundamentals? 
Maybe that you would throw Out 

830
00:45:55,300 --> 00:45:57,800
there that can be kind of 
generalized into all sorts of 

831
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:01,700
different kind of problems. 
I think the fundamental is odd 

832
00:46:01,700 --> 00:46:06,200
but you can guarantee that 
someone else is going through 

833
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:09,100
the same thing that you are. 
You know, that this is this is 

834
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:12,500
absolutely normal. 
Yeah. 

835
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:17,500
And it's okay. 
But that doesn't mean that you 

836
00:46:17,500 --> 00:46:23,400
can't address, it doesn't mean 
that you can't ask for help but 

837
00:46:23,500 --> 00:46:26,400
you're not the first person to 
Gone through what you're 

838
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:32,000
experiencing and therefore how 
do you find those people that 

839
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:35,000
can listen all those people that
have gone through similar 

840
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:38,500
experiences or those people that
can just be a sounding board for

841
00:46:38,500 --> 00:46:40,200
you. 
Yeah and sometimes you might 

842
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:42,300
need to experiment with who 
those people are. 

843
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:45,000
You don't automatically the 
first person that you might open

844
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:48,500
up to might not necessarily be 
the right person, but you've 

845
00:46:48,500 --> 00:46:51,400
taken a first step. 
You know, it's an experiment. 

846
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:54,700
So keep going until you find the
right person for you. 

847
00:46:55,100 --> 00:46:58,400
Be put off by the first time you
tried because you may not it may

848
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:00,400
not be the right one. 
Yeah. 

849
00:47:00,700 --> 00:47:03,100
And again, a personal 
experience, my son is going 

850
00:47:03,100 --> 00:47:06,300
through some difficult times and
he went to see someone and talk 

851
00:47:06,300 --> 00:47:07,900
to someone. 
He was the wrong person first 

852
00:47:07,900 --> 00:47:09,100
person. 
He said I'm not trying that 

853
00:47:09,100 --> 00:47:13,000
again and we spend weeks saying 
right you know in explaining and

854
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:16,600
talking and he's managed to 
engage and find the right person

855
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:20,500
for him to talk to. 
So for me it's about 

856
00:47:20,500 --> 00:47:23,900
acknowledging that this this is 
okay but it's normal and 

857
00:47:23,900 --> 00:47:27,400
experiment and find and that 
person that can help you with 

858
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:32,300
that or find a place where you 
can express yourself and where 

859
00:47:32,300 --> 00:47:36,200
you can express, that might be 
technology and if you can use 

860
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:39,000
technology to express yourselves
in that way, that's great. 

861
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:42,400
And look for the healthy ways to
express yourself. 

862
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:45,500
There's lots of ways to express 
yourself and some of them are 

863
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:48,200
better than others. 
So, so look for the ones that 

864
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:50,900
are actually going to be the 
healthy ways that are going to 

865
00:47:50,900 --> 00:47:53,600
help you express in the best 
possible way that's going to 

866
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:59,400
dissipate it or make it worse. 
Those are two beautiful keys 

867
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:03,300
because I just threw that at you
and I mean God again, wide open 

868
00:48:03,300 --> 00:48:06,700
pasture. 
I think I really appreciate you 

869
00:48:06,700 --> 00:48:10,600
saying that because those two 
fundamentals, you're not alone. 

870
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:15,400
There is nothing new Under the 
Sun, no matter what you're going

871
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:17,800
through. 
Somebody has gone through a 

872
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:21,900
version of it beforehand and 
there's a lot of empowerment in 

873
00:48:21,900 --> 00:48:23,700
knowing that we're not alone, 
isn't there? 

874
00:48:23,700 --> 00:48:25,600
Like like like I think that 
that's That's part of the reason

875
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:30,000
we're internalizing things as 
men, we think that we're alone, 

876
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:32,000
we think we're the only one who 
have gone through, and it's 

877
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:34,100
erroneous, and it's, of course, 
a logical. 

878
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:39,100
But emotion, many times is 
illogical, I think that's a huge

879
00:48:39,100 --> 00:48:43,400
concept. 
That that's a very easy fix, or 

880
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:46,100
not, fixed. 
But, but easy, at least Lily Pad

881
00:48:46,100 --> 00:48:47,700
in front of you to take the next
step. 

882
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:50,100
That's a huge thing knowing that
we're not alone, isn't it? 

883
00:48:50,900 --> 00:48:54,100
It's a huge thing and I'll 
definitely sometimes when people

884
00:48:54,100 --> 00:48:56,800
make Really catastrophic 
decisions. 

885
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:01,500
You know, some of those those 
decisions that feel right at the

886
00:49:01,500 --> 00:49:04,700
same time, they are born out of 
that being the only coping 

887
00:49:04,700 --> 00:49:07,200
mechanism. 
They have the only option 

888
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:11,100
available to them. 
And, and there are many options,

889
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:15,400
and, and knowing that there is 
the potential to kind of address

890
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:18,300
this to know that many people 
have been through this. 

891
00:49:18,300 --> 00:49:21,600
That actually, as many different
ways to kind of cope, there's 

892
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:24,000
never just one company. 
There's never that kind of 

893
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:28,400
catastrophic or approach to 
being able to kind of end your 

894
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:31,100
problems. 
There's always other ways to 

895
00:49:31,100 --> 00:49:33,900
solve that and sometimes it's 
difficult to kind of see that 

896
00:49:33,900 --> 00:49:37,000
it's difficult to understand 
what those might be in those 

897
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:39,700
moments. 
And that's why it's important to

898
00:49:39,700 --> 00:49:42,900
find the right support in the 
right time in the right way 

899
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:47,300
because that's when those things
can again bubble to the surface.

900
00:49:50,100 --> 00:49:54,900
It's so simple and the way that 
you deliver the message is so 

901
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:57,700
Simple. 
And and by the way, simple for 

902
00:49:57,700 --> 00:50:00,400
guys, but it's not when you're 
in the Heat of the Moment. 

903
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:02,900
It feels like somebody. 
It's very easy for me to say 

904
00:50:02,900 --> 00:50:07,600
that and takes the most amount 
of strength and the most amount 

905
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:12,000
of courage to be able to 
actually reach out to kind of 

906
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:15,500
try an alternative way. 
It is very easy for me to sit 

907
00:50:15,500 --> 00:50:18,100
here and say that it's very easy
for it to flow. 

908
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:23,300
And yet let's let's kind of not 
diminish the power and the 

909
00:50:23,300 --> 00:50:26,800
strength that it takes well, and
I think that that's, that's the 

910
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:28,800
distinction that I kind of was 
going to that you just 

911
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:32,400
articulated your economy of 
words is incredible. 

912
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:35,100
It would have taken me 20 
paragraphs to say what you just 

913
00:50:35,100 --> 00:50:39,000
said, in eight sentences. 
Yeah, it's simple, but it's not 

914
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:40,800
easy. 
And those two things are 

915
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:43,700
different that like, simple and 
easy are not the same thing 

916
00:50:43,700 --> 00:50:45,000
especially when it comes to 
this. 

917
00:50:45,300 --> 00:50:48,000
But the good news for guys who 
are going through things, some 

918
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:51,600
of the steps to drastically, 
improve your situation as to 

919
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:53,900
where you are. 
They're actually fairly simple 

920
00:50:53,900 --> 00:50:56,400
but they're not necessarily. 
Easy and I think that thank you 

921
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:58,400
for thank you for making that 
distinction. 

922
00:50:58,900 --> 00:51:01,900
Listen, I am very cognizant of 
your time. 

923
00:51:01,900 --> 00:51:05,400
You're extremely busy, man. 
I just going to throw out a 

924
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:08,000
little bit of a do. 
Okay, first and foremost, I'm 

925
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:12,100
going to say, how do people find
you the social medias and and 

926
00:51:12,100 --> 00:51:14,000
the different ways? 
If you wouldn't mind plugging 

927
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:17,100
all of those things for yourself
at that point and then I'm going

928
00:51:17,100 --> 00:51:21,200
to get us out of here with an 
outro so plug how to see how to 

929
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:24,600
find you and anything else that 
you might want to say before I 

930
00:51:24,607 --> 00:51:27,100
go. 
Into the outro because we are 

931
00:51:27,100 --> 00:51:28,600
the time gets slippery when we 
do these things. 

932
00:51:28,700 --> 00:51:31,000
Not, no worries. 
It's all just got our website 

933
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:37,000
polka help.com. 
Orca, chaa, health.com or 

934
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:39,000
galco.com. 
You'll find us that way. 

935
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:42,700
Oh, and that's all he says, what
about what about other social 

936
00:51:42,700 --> 00:51:44,700
stuff? 
Are you, are you a social media 

937
00:51:44,700 --> 00:51:53,400
is when yeah, you'll find us on 
Instagram, so you've got to do 

938
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:56,800
is search for all That. 
Oh man, you're such a good 

939
00:51:56,800 --> 00:51:57,700
company, man. 
Lloyd. 

940
00:51:57,700 --> 00:51:59,400
Okay. 
He's also appeared on many 

941
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:01,800
podcasts and other things 
around. 

942
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:04,500
If you want to see more and hear
more of Lloyd, he's around. 

943
00:52:04,500 --> 00:52:08,700
You can, you can see him and 
hopefully like, okay, so here's 

944
00:52:08,700 --> 00:52:10,300
my vision for this. 
Thank you for this. 

945
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:13,700
I appreciate it, so, so much. 
I'll take it to the outro here 

946
00:52:13,700 --> 00:52:17,500
and we'll go from there. 
Lloyd, your, you are 

947
00:52:17,500 --> 00:52:19,500
frustratingly, humble, 
sometimes. 

948
00:52:19,500 --> 00:52:22,700
Without you are willing to not 
self promote. 

949
00:52:22,700 --> 00:52:24,800
No, no, you are an extremely 
impressive. 

950
00:52:24,900 --> 00:52:27,400
Of guy. 
And I just, here's my vision was

951
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:31,000
going to throw this out there. 
This, this idea is that, you 

952
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:35,100
know, right now, as we broadcast
this, we're in August of 22. 

953
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:39,600
And it's going to come out late 
August or early September of 22.

954
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:45,700
I hope that at some point, you 
know, somebody has he changed it

955
00:52:45,700 --> 00:52:49,900
as a big Force out there and and
they heard the fifth or sixth or

956
00:52:49,900 --> 00:52:54,200
seventh podcast with with Mike 
and Lloyd and and and they go 

957
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:56,300
all the way back. 
To Holy Cow. 

958
00:52:56,300 --> 00:52:58,900
There's the first appearance. 
There's the first appearance 

959
00:52:58,900 --> 00:53:02,400
when he changed. 
It was just fledgling and it's 

960
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:04,600
candy. 
And I, we've written a book 

961
00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:07,700
already. 
That we went through, going 

962
00:53:07,700 --> 00:53:09,500
through the things that we went 
through the learning experiences

963
00:53:09,500 --> 00:53:12,900
of when we were at BC Children's
hospital with our granddaughter,

964
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:15,100
going through her cancer, scare,
she's fine. 

965
00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:19,000
The next book we're talking 
about writing the his and her 

966
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:23,000
perspectives is grateful in the 
grind and right now we're in the

967
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:26,300
middle of the grind right now. 
And it's It's and it's life is 

968
00:53:26,300 --> 00:53:28,800
very much in color. 
It's right in front of us right 

969
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:31,500
now, as we're building this 
thing and and, and she's 

970
00:53:31,500 --> 00:53:33,200
building this thing. 
I'm just assisting. 

971
00:53:33,900 --> 00:53:37,800
But my vision is is that people 
will come back to this 

972
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:41,100
conversation that we've had 
today and say, oh my God, Lloyd 

973
00:53:41,100 --> 00:53:43,600
was, it was supportive right 
from the beginning and we'll 

974
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:46,500
have more of these conversations
and can grow more of these 

975
00:53:46,500 --> 00:53:48,800
things moving forward. 
I'm going to throw that out 

976
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:50,400
there. 
That that's, that's, that's what

977
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:52,200
I would love to see happen in 
the future. 

978
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:54,800
I cannot thank you enough for 
taking. 

979
00:53:54,900 --> 00:53:57,800
Time out of your extremely busy 
schedule to being part of this. 

980
00:53:58,000 --> 00:53:59,500
Thank you for being a helping 
hand. 

981
00:53:59,500 --> 00:54:03,700
For he changed it Lloyd, it 
means the world to us dr. 

982
00:54:03,700 --> 00:54:06,900
Lloyd Humphreys. 
Our Guest today on, he cast 

983
00:54:07,300 --> 00:54:09,700
again, broken record. 
If you haven't downloaded the 

984
00:54:09,700 --> 00:54:11,300
heat change to that. 
What are you waiting for 

985
00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:13,800
download it? 
And please like share. 

986
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:16,200
Subscribe this podcast, whether 
you like us or not, we would 

987
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:18,000
appreciate that. 
The heat change it, overlords 

988
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:20,900
will get off my back, the moment
our metrics, hit some sort of a 

989
00:54:20,908 --> 00:54:23,300
critical mass and I will love 
that because then we can just 

990
00:54:23,300 --> 00:54:28,300
spend more time talking This has
been another episode of he cast 

991
00:54:28,300 --> 00:54:30,800
the official podcast of he 
changed it. 

992
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:33,000
My name is Mike Chisholm go 
change. 

993
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:33,500
Something