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Welcome to Hecast, the official 
podcast of He Changed It. 

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As always, I am Mike Chisholm. 
As always, I am so excited to 

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have conversations around the 
world of men's mental Wellness 

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and hear the stories of the 
plethora of people that we have 

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as guests on our show. 
If you haven't downloaded the He

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Changed It app, what the heck 
are you waiting for? 

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Head on over to hechangedit.com 
and take a look at this, this 

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movement that is trying to be 
made in, in, in, in making the 

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world a more empowered place 
where men can actually, we're 

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going to take back the phrase 
man up. 

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You know, I talked about this 
with our with our guest off 

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camera. 
We want to take back the phrase 

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man up. 
You know, manning up many times 

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has been sort of a negative 
thing where you you stuff stuff 

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down and you just, you know, you
know, man up. 

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Well, manning up really at the 
end of the day is taking 

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responsibility for where we're 
at in our lives and taking a 

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look at what we can do to change
things and actually making those

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efforts. 
That's manning up. 

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And that's the very definition 
of courage in so many 

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situations. 
I appreciate that. 

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Today's guest is a guy by the 
name of Mike Knox. 

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Mike Knox, you may have heard of
him. 

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He's a comedian out of 
California, you know, the hotbed

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of, of, of stand up down in the 
LA area. 

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He's up on stage all the time. 
But his, his story is pretty 

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crazy. 
You know, he's in his early 50s 

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now. 
He was a corrections officer for

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a long time and, and, and, and, 
and state a corrections officer 

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because he had to pay the bills 
and, and as he was doing that, 

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you know, would try and do stand
up, you know, around, around his

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schedule if he could, to 
exercise about creativity. 

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But then he talks about his 
daughter. 

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He's written a, a couple of 
books, one of them on, on the 

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ordeal that he and his wife went
through with his daughter with 

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epilepsy. 
And, and thank goodness she's in

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a she's in a great stage right 
now about to go to college, but 

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was not like that when she was 
in her early, early years. 

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And he wrote a book about it. 
Vivian's reign. 

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Mike is phenomenal. 
And of course we talk about 

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stand up. 
Of course we do. 

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We talk about that as well. 
But just a really awesome 

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conversation from a really great
guy, funny guy as well. 

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We talk about the world around 
us and it just had a really, 

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really nice conversation. 
You can find him if you search 

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everywhere online. 
Mike Knox comedy, KNOXMIKEKNOX 

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comedy. 
He's on the the Instagrams, he's

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on the Tik Toks, he's on all of 
that stuff. 

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And he's got a website as well 
if anybody wants to book him. 

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I hope that you enjoy my 
conversation. 

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I sure certainly enjoyed my 
conversation. 

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I hope you enjoyed my 
conversation with comedian, 

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former corrections officer and 
author Mike Knox. 

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Mike, it's so nice to have you 
here. 

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A lot of people who have viewed 
and listened to this show over 

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the years know how big of a fan 
I am of stand up and, and how 

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that's a big part of my world. 
My first question for you is 

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this. 
Rick Ross went from a 

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correctional officer and became 
a hit rapper #1 hip hop star. 

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You took a different Rd. 
You were a corrections officer 

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and became a stand up. 
Is that where you get your 

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material from? 
Yeah, but when I worked in the 

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prison, I, I couldn't really use
any of that material. 

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So I had to wait till I retired.
But I definitely, I planned to 

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get out of there and start doing
comedy. 

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And then so yes, all of my stuff
is basically about my, you know,

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talk about your background, your
vulnerabilities. 

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So it's all basically woven into
prison. 

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And when I was a parole agent 
and also the real Rick Ross, I 

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would walk that guy to the 
shower because he was in my he 

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was in my housing unit. 
And he was a real cool guy. 

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Like, are you kidding me? 
Rick Ross? 

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Yeah. 
Rick, you, you were a correction

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officer at the real Rick Ross's 
Correctional Facility. 

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Yeah, he was in, I, I worked in 
the whole administration 

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segregation. 
And he was in there fighting 

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his. 
I think he had a bunch of, he 

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was doing life. 
And they ultimately, I think at 

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that, he'd already done 20 
years. 

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But he was just very, I mean, 
compared to the other 200 guys 

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that were in there, just very 
humble, very quiet. 

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You would never know. 
And when I was working in there,

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I tried looking up Rick Ross, 
but it was like kind of pre 

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Internet. 
There wasn't really a lot on him

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until after I left. 
But you would have never known. 

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And that's basically for those 
who's a great is a great 

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businessman because of that. 
I mean, he didn't brag or 

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anything and you wouldn't even 
know that that's who he was. 

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For those who don't know, I 
literally just threw a line out 

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there to start this. 
I didn't. 

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I didn't know that part about 
this. 

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For those who don't know the 
story of the real Rick Ross, it 

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is a fascinating story. 
And now that you've said that, 

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gosh, we talked about, you know,
he changed. 

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It is the is the idea, the whole
idea of he changed. 

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It is going from one place to 
another. 

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You talk about a guy who that's,
that's that's what he did 

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essentially, you know, got 
enough knowledge in, in, in 

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prison to almost become a 
lawyer. 

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Got himself out of prison 
because of the knowledge that he

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got, you know, and he was put in
there originally because he was 

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selling drugs for the CIA 
essentially, and didn't even 

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know it. 
It's a crazy, crazy story. 

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And now he's out, got out 
because of the education in 

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prison. 
I gotta ask you this. 

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OK, so you saw him in there, 
kept to himself, that sort of 

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thing. 
Did he stand out as a guy who 

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was different than all the rest,
or were there other stories that

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were equally inspirational? 
But because they didn't have the

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headlines and whatnot, you, you 
see guys who are in there 

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literally becoming 
rehabilitated, educating 

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themselves despite the difficult
circumstances they're in. 

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Oh, yeah, you sell that all the 
time. 

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I I just want to add also that 
the real Rick Ross is free 

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Freeway Rick Ross. 
And the reason that he got that 

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name was because he lived near 
the freeway and was that was, 

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you know, the 110405. 
Yes, but no, I would see I was 

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in amazing stories that never 
made it into, you know, mass 

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media for one reason or another.
I mean, there was a another guy 

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connected that was in my housing
unit. 

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That was his name was Harry O 
And he, I think he just recently

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got out, but same thing. 
He got life. 

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And he was the guy who supplied 
all the money for Death Row 

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records. 
And he was a very nice guy. 

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And I talk to him all the time. 
So I knew his story more than 

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Ricky Rick Ross's just because I
was in the housing a lot longer 

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and I I could hear his phone 
conversations with his attorneys

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and all these kind of major 
players in record, you know the 

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record business because y'all 
you. 

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Heard him talking to Suge 
Knight. 

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I don't. 
Know if he was ever talking to 

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Suge Knight at the time but Suge
Knight was definitely in and out

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of that because Suge Knight also
was I mean all around Lai mean 

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Suge Knight, I think lived in 
Grata Hills when I lived in 

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Grata Hills at the same time so 
yeah, you know he was all I 

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think he's back in prison now 
but. 

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A fascinating time. 
And certainly, you know, I, I, I

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there's a lot of people who, you
know, vicariously wish that they

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lived in California at that time
despite all of the crazy ups and

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downs of what happened during 
that time. 

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You're from Pasadena. 
Yes. 

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Yeah. 
And I, I, I'm super curious 

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because, I mean, you know, 
corrections officer, yet you're 

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such a creative. 
You know, you look at stand up, 

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of course, but. 
But but then also, you know, 

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you've written the books that 
you've written. 

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And I mean, you talk about the 
touching subjects that you've 

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written about. 
And then, of course, fiction as 

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well. 
You know, have you always been a

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creative? 
And it was just, you know, got 

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to pay the bills, got to feed 
the family, which is why you 

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moved into into corrections. 
Yeah. 

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I'm. 
I mean, I'm still trying to 

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figure out how to make money in 
the arts, but I, I wanted to do,

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I wanted to be a writer. 
And a lot of it was I, I tell 

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people now, if that's what you 
want to do, go and do that if 

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you want to. 
You know, I wanted to do acting.

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My parents said absolutely not. 
I want to be a writer. 

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My parents, same thing like you,
never gonna make any money, 

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which obviously is true, but 
you're always gonna find another

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job if you like. 
If I had started out in acting, 

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I would have been able to find 
another job and film something 

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else. 
I could have, you know, if 

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that's what you love to do, go 
and do that. 

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And I hate that advice of find 
something to fall back on 

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because that's what I did. 
I fell back into law enforcement

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simply because I wanted health 
insurance at the time. 

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I'd never had a job before that 
that had paid days off anything.

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I was, I was just minimum wage 
guy. 

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And so then you start making all
this money and you're looking 

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around at other people and 
they're losing. 

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You know, I went through years 
of friends losing their jobs 

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that had master's degrees, 
couldn't get a job anywhere. 

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And so I just felt fortunate. 
OK, well, at least I'm, I'll 

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stay here until, you know, I can
get a pension. 

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And that so the very first day 
that I could get a pension that 

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it was offered to me, I left to 
go pursue acting and comedy full

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time. 
And that's what I've been doing.

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And I love it. 
And I absolutely hated law 

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enforcement. 
I loved it in the beginning 

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because I got into it. 
Also with parole was I could at 

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least help somebody. 
And I just realized, like, it's 

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government. 
You're not helping anybody. 

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You're just drowning them. 
And, and for you, many of the 

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people that I've had on the show
that have something to do with 

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law enforcement in any way, the 
vast majority of them, it's kind

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of the family business. 
Did you have people in your life

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that were in law enforcement 
already? 

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No, I knew nobody and and when I
got into Department of 

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Corrections, I realized real 
quick, like the ones who are 

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related to each other, they got 
the better jobs and they got the

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transfers right away. 
And since I didn't know anybody,

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I was last in line for 
everything. 

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Oh, that's interesting. 
OK, so so how old were you when 

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you left? 
Like how many years ago were we 

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talking I. 
Left three years ago. 

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So when I, the moment I hit 50 
and I didn't know, I calculated 

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everything myself. 
I was trying to get, you're 

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supposed to have somebody that 
helps you figure out your 

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pension. 
Nobody was there to do any of 

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that. 
I figured it out myself and it 

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just happened when I first got 
that first pension check, it 

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worked out. 
My math was OK. 

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So I did take a keep, keep of 
faith. 

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It was very scary for me. 
I tell anybody that who, who 

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retires because it's all mental 
and, and I had so much stress 

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and my health was deteriorating,
which is another reason I wanted

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to leave. 
And it just made me a, you know,

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a whole 360° turn of, of health.
I mean, I'm the happiest I've 

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ever been. 
I was basically depressed for 

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the last 20 something years. 
Yeah, and I mean, there's a lot 

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of guys who are exactly in that 
spot right now where they're 

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just grinding it out for 
whatever reason. 

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You have many reasons. 
Another thing that you and I 

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have in common is we both have 
had a little girl in our lives 

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who, who, who means the world to
us. 

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My granddaughter in my case, you
know, spent 18 months at BC 

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Children's Hospital and or 
she's, I'm sorry, when she was 

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18 months old, spent six months 
at BC Children's Hospital. 

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She's a cancer survivor. 
She's 8 now. 

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She's doing great. 
You've got a little girl in your

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life who was going through 
stuff. 

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And I mean, when you, when you 
think about guys who are 

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grinding it out, there's always 
a reason. 

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00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:20,040
And, and, and I, I think about, 
you know, one of the books that 

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00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:22,440
you wrote, I, I wanted to start 
this conversation by talking 

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00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:24,000
about your little girl and 
saying, Hey, how are things 

228
00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:26,880
going? 
And, and, and, and can you maybe

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00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:29,480
talk about her story a little 
bit before we get into some of 

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00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:31,920
the fun stuff with stand up and 
the adventures that have that 

231
00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:32,960
have come since then? 
Sure. 

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00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,840
My daughter was diagnosed with 
epilepsy at the age of 2, so we 

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00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:38,960
were in and out of the hospital.
You know, I was stuck in 

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00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:40,480
hospitals long periods of time 
just like that. 

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And you're looking at all these 
other families and just your 

236
00:10:42,680 --> 00:10:44,800
heart breaks for everybody 
that's there, especially 

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00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:47,160
spending long amounts of time at
the hospital. 

238
00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:52,240
And now she's doing great. 
She got a a medical device 

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00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:54,440
implant and she's been seizure 
free for nine years. 

240
00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:57,920
And she's, you know, there was 
one doctor said she's never 

241
00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:01,240
going to progress past the age, 
basically 2nd grade. 

242
00:11:01,560 --> 00:11:04,000
She's graduating high school, 
she's got into a college that 

243
00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:05,120
she wants to go to. 
She's going to live 

244
00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:06,480
independently in a couple 
months. 

245
00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:08,760
So huge. 
That's all I ever wanted for 

246
00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:11,800
her, you know? 
Well, and I mean, you talk about

247
00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:15,320
the reason like why guys will do
like you said, you know, I was 

248
00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:17,720
basically depressed for 20, for 
however long, 20 years or 

249
00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:20,400
whatever, how long it was. 
You know, many times when guys 

250
00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:22,800
are in that situation, there's a
reason for that and they're 

251
00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:24,240
grinding it out for their 
family. 

252
00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:26,920
That health insurance you talk 
about, that's a huge, huge 

253
00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:29,600
thing. 
And to see it on the other side 

254
00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:31,320
of that, that's got to be so 
gratifying. 

255
00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:33,520
What's the book? 
You wrote a book about it? 

256
00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:36,080
Because my wife and I, this is 
another thing we have in common.

257
00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:38,760
My wife and I wrote a book about
our experience when when our 

258
00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:41,280
granddaughter was at at BC 
Children's because the 

259
00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:43,640
grandparents situation is a 
little bit different, even 

260
00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:44,960
though we were there the entire 
time. 

261
00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:49,200
We moved down with the family to
Vancouver for, for, for that. 

262
00:11:49,560 --> 00:11:51,880
And, and so we wrote a book 
about it as well. 

263
00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:54,720
I just, I appreciate the fact 
that you have you always been 

264
00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:57,080
the guy that basically when you 
go through something negative, 

265
00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,520
you want to somehow turn it into
something positive. 

266
00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:02,640
Was it therapeutic? 
Talk about the book a little 

267
00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:03,160
bit. 
Yeah. 

268
00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:07,080
It was definitely, and it's the 
book is about my daughter's 

269
00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:09,400
struggle with her epilepsy and 
finding the right kind of 

270
00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:12,240
doctors. 
And and I went into a lot like 

271
00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:13,480
you did. 
You go into a blind and you're 

272
00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:15,160
thinking, you've seen all these 
movies where everybody's going 

273
00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:17,360
to come be your friend and help 
you out. 

274
00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:19,600
And you just realize, wow, 
nobody gives a shit. 

275
00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:22,520
Even the medical staff doesn't 
care. 

276
00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:25,000
And you're fighting for your 
child. 

277
00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:27,880
And which a lot of people are, 
you know, you're just fighting 

278
00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:30,640
for basic rights of, hey, could 
you just treat my kid? 

279
00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,880
And that's what the book is a 
lot about is finding the right 

280
00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:37,000
doctor, finding the right 
treatment plan for my daughter 

281
00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:39,240
because there's no cure for 
epilepsy. 

282
00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:43,720
And just as a parent going 
through same with work, I had a 

283
00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:46,960
lot of problems with my work not
wanting to let me get days off 

284
00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:48,640
to do with my child when she's 
in the hospital. 

285
00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:51,720
And it was just all, all I 
wanted, the one word that I 

286
00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:54,120
wanted was empathy from people. 
And I never got it. 

287
00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:55,800
And that was the reason why I 
wrote the book. 

288
00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:58,560
It was just, I'll write down 
what we're going through. 

289
00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:03,440
And hopefully meet somebody that
has the same, goes through the 

290
00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:04,640
same thing. 
And I haven't met all those 

291
00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:07,160
people. 
But the majority of it is just 

292
00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:10,240
negativity because people are 
going through a crisis in their 

293
00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:13,120
life and, and they don't we as 
humans don't know how to express

294
00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:17,080
ourselves and talk about it. 
And so I I lost more friends 

295
00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:20,280
because of my daughter's illness
then gained them. 

296
00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,880
Yep, I, it's funny, my wife, the
way that we wrote our book is my

297
00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:28,480
wife wrote 1/2 and I wrote the 
other half and you flip it. 

298
00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:31,480
So, so and it's both of our 
perspectives of going through 

299
00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:33,280
that and that and what we've 
learned along the way. 

300
00:13:33,680 --> 00:13:37,920
On my side of the book, one of 
the chapters I focused on 

301
00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:40,680
exactly what you're talking 
about because it's, it's, it's 

302
00:13:40,680 --> 00:13:41,680
funny. 
You have these people in your 

303
00:13:41,680 --> 00:13:43,680
life, whether they're friends, 
whether they're even family 

304
00:13:43,680 --> 00:13:45,800
members or business partners, 
whatever, they're in your life 

305
00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:48,440
and, and, and you think 
everything is like you think 

306
00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:51,400
they're going to have your back 
when this stuff happens. 

307
00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:55,000
And the entire chapter of that 
book was, it was exactly what 

308
00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:57,200
you just said. 
It was like, holy smokes, was I 

309
00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:00,520
ever. 
And it now that Alara's fine and

310
00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:03,320
she's cancer free and what not, 
it's actually given me a bit of 

311
00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,080
a superpower because what it's 
done is it's made me realize, 

312
00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:09,080
OK, there are certain people 
that will have your back. 

313
00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:11,600
And that number, like you said, 
is probably a smaller number, 

314
00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:15,280
but then there are others who 
you would assume, you know, have

315
00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:16,720
your back. 
But when the going gets tough, 

316
00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:19,160
they're out there. 
They, they, they, they get going

317
00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:23,640
and, and, and you realize it's a
superpower knowing that those 

318
00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:26,400
people in your life. 
But then when you're going 

319
00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:29,320
through stuff, the people who 
actually stand up and are there 

320
00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:33,840
for you, that makes you realize,
you know, the goal that they are

321
00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:35,400
in your life. 
And we, I wrote an entire 

322
00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:37,520
chapter about I can totally, 
totally relate to what you're 

323
00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:40,320
saying. 
I'm so glad to hear that your 

324
00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:41,800
daughter's OK. 
What's the name of the book? 

325
00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:43,800
Because there's people out there
who are going through similar 

326
00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:45,240
things. 
What's the name of the book? 

327
00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:47,040
And you still get it on Amazon 
for sure. 

328
00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:48,200
Is there other spots you can get
it? 

329
00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:49,800
Yeah, pretty much anywhere on 
the Internet. 

330
00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:57,280
It's Vivian's reign. 
Vivian's reign and here's 

331
00:14:57,280 --> 00:14:59,360
another question for you. 
How old was she when you wrote 

332
00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:01,560
the book and have you has she 
read it? 

333
00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:07,320
She has not read it just because
I I feel like it's too adult for

334
00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:12,000
her, even though she's 19 now. 
It's, you know, such a sad 

335
00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:13,480
period of time. 
I couldn't for so long I 

336
00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:16,120
couldn't talk about it, which is
another reason that I wrote it. 

337
00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:23,440
So it stops about the age of I 
think 9 because her device 

338
00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:25,640
started to work and then she was
seizure free and she was 

339
00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:27,120
allowed. 
It was like a the first day 

340
00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:29,720
where she woke me up. 
She could never do that before 

341
00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:31,440
she got dressed. 
She'd never do that before she 

342
00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:32,760
made her lunch. 
She could never do that before 

343
00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:35,080
we drove to school. 
She told me a joke which as a 

344
00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:39,400
comedian, she was just a zombie 
kid and couldn't couldn't even 

345
00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:41,960
decipher humor. 
So the day she told me that 

346
00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:45,240
joke, I was like, Oh my, this is
like crazy to me. 

347
00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:48,040
I was experienced like a a 
miracle just with my daughter 

348
00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:49,360
and I in the car going to 
school. 

349
00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:50,960
And also she hated going to 
school. 

350
00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:55,320
She hated she couldn't, she 
couldn't process communicating 

351
00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:57,200
with people because they were 
epilepsy. 

352
00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,000
She's having seizures all the 
time and the school didn't want 

353
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:00,960
her there. 
She's on the verge of getting 

354
00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,280
kicked out of the school at the 
time because they just didn't 

355
00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:05,840
know how to deal with her. 
And legally they didn't have to 

356
00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:08,960
deal with her. 
And I, I, I fought very hard to 

357
00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:12,920
get a law passed where the, in 
California where the teachers 

358
00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:14,920
had to recognize seizures 
because they didn't have to. 

359
00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:16,880
And they didn't have to carry 
her medication at school. 

360
00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:19,360
And I would walk her to class 
and sit in class with her or 

361
00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:21,200
wait outside because they didn't
want me inside. 

362
00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:24,680
So I, I had a lot of anger 
towards the school, also my work

363
00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:27,280
and school, just because nobody 
wanted it. 

364
00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:30,800
Nobody wanted to just give you 
your basic kind of civil rights 

365
00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:36,160
for your child. 
And then the lack of empathy, 

366
00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:38,040
like you said earlier, you know,
it's funny. 

367
00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:39,920
One of the things that, that 
you, that you learn when you 

368
00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:42,920
have a, a sick and it's not just
a sick child, but it's a parent 

369
00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:45,680
or, or, or somebody who isn't 
able to speak up for themselves.

370
00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:48,240
If you care for that person and 
you're involved in the 

371
00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:50,160
situation, you become an 
advocate. 

372
00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:54,000
And, and, and that's a huge 
skill in itself, becoming the 

373
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:55,960
advocate, knowing how to talk to
the doctors, knowing how to 

374
00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:58,360
stand up for things that you're,
you're, you're, you're looking 

375
00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:01,240
for or that need to happen. 
That kind of a thing, that 

376
00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:03,800
advocation for you. 
I, I mean, I assume that's the 

377
00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:05,920
same thing for you because it 
didn't end. 

378
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:09,680
I'm fascinated by the idea that 
you had a lot helped, helped get

379
00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:12,400
a law passed for that. 
What was what was that? 

380
00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,520
Was it just a matter of you were
fired up because of what your 

381
00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:17,720
daughter was going through and 
so it's time to stand up and go.

382
00:17:17,839 --> 00:17:20,560
Were there other groups who were
trying to get this similar law 

383
00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:22,839
passed that you kind of banded 
together with? 

384
00:17:22,839 --> 00:17:23,680
How did that happen? 
I. 

385
00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:27,319
Was assuming there would be 
other groups and I just realized

386
00:17:27,599 --> 00:17:30,360
that none of these organizations
that get tons of money from the 

387
00:17:30,360 --> 00:17:34,000
state and the feds, they like 
the Epilepsy Foundation Los 

388
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,040
Angeles. 
All they cared about was a walk 

389
00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:38,200
that they do. 
So I had to look past that and 

390
00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:41,840
go, OK, I, I guess they don't 
want to help. 

391
00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:44,280
They'll tell you that they're 
going to help you and they don't

392
00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:46,720
want to help you because they 
just want to do their walk and 

393
00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:47,920
their fundraiser. 
That's all they care about. 

394
00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:52,080
And then Los Angeles doesn't 
talk to New York and New York 

395
00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:54,720
doesn't talk to Kansas. 
So none of them are on the same 

396
00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:56,120
page. 
And it gets very frustrating. 

397
00:17:56,120 --> 00:18:00,360
And so I just looked up kind of 
similar to a law and, and how it

398
00:18:00,360 --> 00:18:02,840
was written and I just wrote it.
And then I took it to a 

399
00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:06,400
assemblywoman and I just 
realized all of these 

400
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,600
politicians are, they're just 
fundraising. 

401
00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:11,080
They don't, they didn't care 
either. 

402
00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:17,840
But out of 550, I was able to 
find one woman and she took the 

403
00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:19,840
bill. 
But then when she took the bill 

404
00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:24,760
to Sacramento, the Epilepsy 
Foundation said, oh, no, we 

405
00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:27,440
already wrote this. 
So they just took it and said we

406
00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:31,440
did this and it was recognized 
more than just some father that 

407
00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:33,320
did it. 
And I just said, I don't care. 

408
00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:35,520
I just want it to be put into 
place. 

409
00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:37,600
It doesn't matter to me. 
So it was signed about a year 

410
00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:40,200
ago, I think this year is when 
it takes place. 

411
00:18:40,360 --> 00:18:42,720
But at least it got signed by 
the governor and it became law 

412
00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:45,960
where the schools have to 
recognize in this in the state 

413
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,200
of California that children have
epilepsy. 

414
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:51,480
Because before that, like I 
said, we're they didn't have to 

415
00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:54,520
carry her medication. 
So you would have Epipens for 

416
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:57,920
food allergies that looked 
identical to the EpiPen to stop 

417
00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:00,680
my child's life threatening 
seizures. 

418
00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:02,560
You know, I could see them in 
the nurse's office and they 

419
00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:05,440
refused to carry it. 
I mean, I everyday panicked 

420
00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:08,000
because I'm thinking I'm this is
a death trap for me. 

421
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:10,600
I'm dropping my daughter off. 
Nobody's trained to identify. 

422
00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:12,920
I would go to school. 
Sometimes my daughter would be 

423
00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:16,360
on the yard where she already 
had a seizure and the yard staff

424
00:19:16,360 --> 00:19:18,480
who wasn't trained at all would 
just say, oh, she's just lazy. 

425
00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:20,320
I would hear that all the time. 
She's just lazy. 

426
00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:22,440
She don't care because they're 
just coming. 

427
00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:25,320
They're coming from this. 
What the school tells them. 

428
00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:29,360
And that's why you need laws is 
the law is just telling people, 

429
00:19:29,360 --> 00:19:31,480
hey, you need to do this and 
then people wake up. 

430
00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,920
But it never ceased to amaze me 
at the just the stupidity that I

431
00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:37,960
would hear from people just 
simply because their boss told 

432
00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:42,560
them something different, that 
is. 

433
00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:45,840
I'm really grateful that you're 
talking about this right now 

434
00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:48,120
because I, I promise you there 
are guys out there that are in a

435
00:19:48,120 --> 00:19:50,320
similar situation right now 
thinking that they're alone. 

436
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:54,320
And, and, and the fact that 
you're able to shed light on 

437
00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:56,400
this and talk about this stuff, 
it's, it's really, really 

438
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,480
important. 
Mike, it's, it's again, when I, 

439
00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,080
when I, when I saw you come 
across the, the the table as a 

440
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:05,120
guest for, for, for he cast. 
I'm like, Oh my gosh, the layers

441
00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:07,480
here. 
Never mind how we could just, we

442
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,120
could just go on stand out. 
Like, I mean, you know, and I 

443
00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:12,160
and I and I want to talk about 
that a little bit here, But 

444
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:17,000
there there's, there's a lot 
more power in in, in what you're

445
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:19,640
talking about here, How, how 
and, and how people can make it,

446
00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:23,400
make it make a change and they 
can stand up and change will 

447
00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:24,360
happen. 
I am. 

448
00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:28,440
I was going to ask if the 
Epilepsy Foundation or if the if

449
00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:31,560
the if the if the nonprofit 
raised you up as a poster child,

450
00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:32,680
but it is No, they didn't even 
do that. 

451
00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:34,160
They they took all the credit. 
Yeah, no. 

452
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:37,520
They asked me for $50,000 to put
an advertisement in their little

453
00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:39,360
flyer. 
But that's, it's just all, it's 

454
00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:41,240
all money. 
It was all and that's what I 

455
00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:43,800
take out of it. 
I, I learned what the 

456
00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:47,560
foundations are and I learned, 
you know, the politicians are, 

457
00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:49,840
they're just politicians. 
They're not really, they're, 

458
00:20:50,120 --> 00:20:52,720
yes, they can take that bill, 
but anybody can write a, anybody

459
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:55,080
can write a law or a bill. 
That's the large reason why a 

460
00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:58,040
lot of politicians are lawyers 
is they know the lawyers speak, 

461
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:02,040
right. 
But you know, I, I kind of tell 

462
00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:03,760
people who, and a lot of people 
just don't want to listen. 

463
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:05,640
They're going, I, I get it. 
They're going through a lot of 

464
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:10,240
painful process and the epilepsy
community is very fractured. 

465
00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:12,880
I very, I very rarely talk to 
very few people. 

466
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:15,080
Nobody wants to hear it. 
So I just kind of don't. 

467
00:21:15,360 --> 00:21:19,000
I started a foundation that got 
pushed, you know, quickly got 

468
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:21,520
pushed aside and I realized 
there's a lot of people that 

469
00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:24,000
have just dropped out of that 
community because they've been 

470
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,080
pressured by other people 
because it's all it really is 

471
00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:28,360
just about money. 
It's not really about helping 

472
00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:31,800
anybody. 
And I just again, focus on my 

473
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,800
family and what little I can do,
I will do. 

474
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:37,920
And I just, my mantra is to do 
good and be good. 

475
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:41,120
And that's all, all that I can 
do is, you know, what's around 

476
00:21:41,120 --> 00:21:42,440
me. 
I can't solve all these other 

477
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:45,120
problems. 
I'd certainly like to, I have 

478
00:21:45,120 --> 00:21:47,440
ideas for it, but a lot of 
people just don't want to hear 

479
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,240
it. 
And then, you know, I, I kind of

480
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:52,880
get to chuckle because they're 
unmasking so much corruption 

481
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:56,360
going on that I saw years ago, 
you know, that doesn't have to 

482
00:21:56,360 --> 00:21:57,760
do with epilepsy. 
It's got to do with all this 

483
00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,440
other stuff in Los Angeles, 
just. 

484
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:01,760
Waste. 
Yeah, just total. 

485
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,120
Total waste. 
I saw that all the time I worked

486
00:22:04,120 --> 00:22:06,240
for the government. 
All they did was waste, you 

487
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,920
know, constantly. 
Wasting cash grabs and things 

488
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:11,920
like that. 
It's, it's an interesting 

489
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,680
perspective that you, you've 
seen it from, you've seen it 

490
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:18,160
from angles that many people 
just don't see it from and 

491
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,360
you've seen it with a front row 
seat from some of these 

492
00:22:20,360 --> 00:22:21,680
different angles. 
I, I want to give the 

493
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,200
opportunity though, going 
through that meeting some of 

494
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:27,560
these groups, some of these 
people, were there anybody who 

495
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,640
were like shining stars? 
Were there anybody who was like,

496
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,320
oh, wait, you guys are trying to
do well here. 

497
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:36,520
You guys are trying to you. 
You get it, You know, again, 

498
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:38,160
these other people that are 
pushed aside, you were pushed 

499
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,000
aside. 
I assume you're not the only 

500
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:40,680
one. 
Yeah. 

501
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,800
No, there was there's I was, I 
always say there's 10% and there

502
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,560
was especially one guy. 
He had his own podcast and he 

503
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:50,240
just he had an epilepsy himself.
He had brain surgery, David 

504
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:54,760
Clifford and just a great guy. 
But again, he's one guy and he's

505
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,720
also dealing with epilepsy. 
He's now and he's a father, so 

506
00:22:57,720 --> 00:22:59,360
he's dealing with a young 
daughter. 

507
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,600
And so life sidetracks you. 
It's hard for, you know, I, I 

508
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:07,120
get it gets exhausting to you 
know, I go every, I, I go every 

509
00:23:07,120 --> 00:23:14,120
year to the Disneyland epilepsy 
awareness and every year 

510
00:23:14,120 --> 00:23:15,400
somebody else has lost their 
child. 

511
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:19,320
So it's just heartbreaking to 
constantly go there and and meet

512
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:21,600
somebody that their kid was 
alive last year and now their 

513
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:23,720
kid has passed away because of 
epilepsy. 

514
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:26,520
If. 
There are one or two changes 

515
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:31,480
that you could see in the world 
out there when it comes to this 

516
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:33,280
because again, you have a front 
row seat to it. 

517
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,240
I mean, obviously awareness is 
one of the things and, and 

518
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:37,680
education, obviously that's one 
of them. 

519
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:40,200
But if there's if there's any, 
are there any silver bullets? 

520
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,360
Are there any changes that could
be made to make things easier on

521
00:23:43,360 --> 00:23:45,800
people, on parents, on on 
families that go through this? 

522
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:47,800
Yeah. 
I mean, like another one, the 

523
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:51,800
law that I'm trying to do is 
there's a lot of fake seizures 

524
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:53,160
you're doing. 
Another one you're going to. 

525
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:54,880
You're not done with one, you're
doing another one, I mean. 

526
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,520
The other one took five years, 
so I got plenty of time. 

527
00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:59,840
I got plenty of time, but 
there's a lot of fake seizure 

528
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:01,400
videos. 
They're monetized. 

529
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,400
So the kids that all have phones
in the class would show these 

530
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,440
fake seizure videos to my child 
and pretend to have fake seizure

531
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:09,280
videos and the school wouldn't 
do anything. 

532
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:10,360
The teachers wouldn't do 
anything. 

533
00:24:10,360 --> 00:24:12,880
And it's that's bullying. 
I'm a comedian. 

534
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,920
I don't find it funny. 
I don't think it's funny, but 

535
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:17,280
that's what I would hear from 
the school. 

536
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:19,680
You don't understand humor. 
That's just the kids. 

537
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:21,520
They're just kids. 
They're they're, you know, 

538
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,280
they're just having fun. 
Well, that's not fun to my 

539
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:29,000
daughter who has a, you know, 
has epilepsy and, and, and 

540
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,160
struggles every single day. 
So that was another time where 

541
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:34,600
we had to leave schools because 
she was getting bullied 

542
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:36,400
constantly because of her 
epilepsy. 

543
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:41,080
And the kids see these videos 
and it delivered right to them. 

544
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:42,440
And they're making lots of 
money. 

545
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:48,080
And the there needs to be a law 
written where, you know, they 

546
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,400
can't be shown on social media, 
but unfortunately they are. 

547
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:57,280
Wow, that's again, I'm, I'm, 
it's something I never would 

548
00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:59,720
have even thought of, you know, 
'cause the idea of course is 

549
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,960
your daughter and, and kids like
her, you want to send them to 

550
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,280
school so they can feel normal, 
they can be normalized a little 

551
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,200
bit and, and, you know, in those
situations, anything but that is

552
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:12,880
happening. 
So yeah, I appreciate, you know,

553
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:15,680
as, as much as I wanted to get 
into the stand up stuff is when 

554
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,200
I, when I saw this part of it, 
I, I knew that I wanted to 

555
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,200
dedicate a part of this episode 
to that. 

556
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,640
And, and if there's anything 
that can be done to help, I 

557
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,520
mean, sharing the story is, is, 
is where it starts, right? 

558
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:29,640
Because one person can make a 
difference. 

559
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,120
And, and, and when, when one 
person tells the story to 

560
00:25:32,120 --> 00:25:35,360
somebody who's willing to listen
to it and hear it, you know, 

561
00:25:35,360 --> 00:25:37,200
that can make change right there
because you're creating 

562
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:38,760
awareness. 
But then also people who are 

563
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:40,840
going through the same thing. 
I mean, there's a lot of 

564
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:42,800
families, a lot of men out 
there. 

565
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,600
You know, this is a men's 
focused endeavor that we're 

566
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,080
doing here, obviously, but 
there's a lot of people living 

567
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,080
that quiet life of desperation. 
And these are the ingredients. 

568
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:52,760
It's stuff like this. 
It's the stuff that's going on 

569
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:54,560
beneath the surface that you 
don't even know. 

570
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:59,320
That's that that that guys are 
going through, you know, and and

571
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,440
so you talking about this today,
I appreciate it very, very much 

572
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:04,000
because it's going to help 
people feel like they're not 

573
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:05,560
alone. 
And I think that that's 

574
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:06,840
something that's really 
important. 

575
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,600
And I appreciate you letting me 
have a voice because most people

576
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:11,400
don't want to hear it. 
They want to hear about prison 

577
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:13,560
or comp. 
They don't want to hear about 

578
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:15,960
the epilepsy because they don't 
want to hear about being sick. 

579
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:20,240
I mean, I, I understand that. 
But you know, just like with for

580
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,040
men, especially when you, I 
always think about this as a 

581
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,720
father going into the pharmacy 
and the pharmacies that I go to 

582
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,000
are just the biggest morons I've
ever met in my life. 

583
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,520
And you're as a man thinking 
logically like it's, it's easy. 

584
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:33,920
I'm giving you money. 
Give me the medication for my 

585
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,520
daughter that saves her life. 
And they just can't compute that

586
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,160
together because insurance is 
1/3 factor. 

587
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,360
And just every year, like 
clockwork, my insurance gets 

588
00:26:42,360 --> 00:26:44,440
cancelled, the medication gets 
cancelled. 

589
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:45,800
I have to reissue the same 
thing. 

590
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:50,040
It's like all this bureaucracy 
and red tape that I just got a, 

591
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:54,200
you know, again, I all I can do 
is laugh and find humor in, in 

592
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,440
the stupidity of it. 
But I always think about that as

593
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:58,160
a dad. 
There's so many people that 

594
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,480
probably when the pharmacy just 
goes, Oh, well, we don't have 

595
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:03,160
your medication. 
They just go home and don't take

596
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:05,800
their medication. 
I mean, because how would how 

597
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,760
would a kid know I, I get all 
the medication now, Now I'm 

598
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,760
dealing with my daughter is an 
adult. 

599
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:12,840
So they don't even want to talk 
to me. 

600
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:14,880
They don't want to talk to my, 
my daughter that's never picked 

601
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:16,800
up her medication before. 
How would she even know how to 

602
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:21,680
do it? 
And and and the go back to the 

603
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:23,480
advocacy. 
The advocacy never ends. 

604
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:30,080
And and there you go. 
Like that's a, when people are 

605
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:35,240
that you use the word empathy 
earlier and, and, and man, it's 

606
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,760
becoming, it's becoming one of 
those things where it's gold 

607
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:41,040
when you find it. 
And, and growing up, I felt 

608
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:44,280
like, and again, I don't want to
sound like the old man, but I 

609
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,720
am, I guess I'm 50 now. 
And so I guess I am the old man.

610
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:48,680
But, but growing up, there 
seemed to be a lot more empathy 

611
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,040
in the world. 
And, and things now seem to 

612
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:55,400
become so compartmentalized and 
empathy does not seem to be the 

613
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:59,120
first, second, third or even 4th
mandate of organizations like 

614
00:27:59,120 --> 00:28:00,640
what you're talking about. 
You know, again, these 

615
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:02,680
nonprofits, what are they doing?
Well, they're trying to stay in 

616
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:04,600
business. 
They're trying to stay going. 

617
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:07,200
And then it becomes something 
else entirely. 

618
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:08,440
Like you say, it's all 
fundraising. 

619
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:10,840
And I don't know about you, but 
I'm fundraised to death. 

620
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,000
I would like to just look at 
solving some problems and 

621
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:17,720
figuring out ways to do that. 
Do you see any, do you see any 

622
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,760
obvious solutions of any sort 
that like common sense stuff 

623
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:25,560
that could be put into place 
that you know just isn't there 

624
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,560
yet, But but if, if enough 
people kind of got together, 

625
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,040
they could make some common 
sense solution. 

626
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,440
Yeah, I mean, one of the big 
things with epilepsy is for some

627
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,560
reason East Coast doesn't talk 
to West Coast of the United 

628
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,680
States. 
So communication, there's huge, 

629
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:44,400
there's huge stars, mega stars 
in in New York that go to all 

630
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:46,920
these galas and there isn't a 
single one in Los Angeles, which

631
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:50,600
is Hollywood. 
Not a single celebrity shows up 

632
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:52,480
to any of this stuff. 
I mean, it's just mind blowing. 

633
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,240
If you could get everybody on 
the same page for the advocacy 

634
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:58,560
of these organizations, that 
would be great. 

635
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:00,280
But what they do is they don't 
share information with each 

636
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,480
other, which again, reminds me 
of law enforcement. 

637
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:04,480
All these different divisions 
didn't share information with 

638
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,560
each other but that. 
And why is that? 

639
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:08,640
Why is that? 
They're just covering their own 

640
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:09,840
butt. 
They're trying to stay keep 

641
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,280
their world as stable as they 
possibly can. 

642
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:13,640
What what what's the logic of 
that? 

643
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:15,000
Or is it just too busy? 
Is it too? 

644
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,200
No, I just. 
There's two things that drive us

645
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:18,760
is money and power. 
And I think that that's the 

646
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:22,560
power, the power part. 
It's hard for us to process that

647
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:24,080
because I think most people are 
good. 

648
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:26,080
So they're like, well, why would
somebody want to be a 

649
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,440
narcissist? 
And and just do something mean 

650
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:31,200
to me. 
And that's how people think. 

651
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,240
I mean, and when you are in law 
enforcement and you have a badge

652
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,280
and a gun, you have huge amounts
of power over somebody. 

653
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:37,880
It's really a one way 
conversation. 

654
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:39,680
I mean, think about a traffic 
stop. 

655
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,800
If you say if you look at the 
cop the wrong way, he just flips

656
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,720
out, you know, he or she just 
flips out on you and you're just

657
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,840
like, but you pulled me over 
you, you knew what was going to 

658
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:50,840
happen. 
You know, you know the process, 

659
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,520
but it's a one way conversation 
because that's a cop with a 

660
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:55,960
badge and they have all the 
power and they're going to abuse

661
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:57,880
the power and the power gets 
abused a lot. 

662
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:03,200
And again, when you have all the
money, naturally power seeps in 

663
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:04,880
there and they kind of go hand 
in hand. 

664
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,960
I I hope we move to where? 
To a place where we can go back 

665
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:16,440
to a society where that's not 
the, that's not the influence. 

666
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,080
And, and, and you think about 
like, I mean, it's like people 

667
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:20,280
are starting to act like 
corporations. 

668
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:22,440
Like that's the thing about 
corporations getting so much 

669
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:23,760
power. 
Corporations have no empathy 

670
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:25,360
whatsoever. 
Their job is to get the bottom 

671
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:27,520
line and to pad the bottom line 
as much as they can. 

672
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:32,200
And if you have people who start
acting like corporations, that's

673
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:33,960
just another level of this lack 
of empathy. 

674
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:38,680
So, so, so it's, it's, it's it's
wonderful to hear a guy, you 

675
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:43,840
know, bring this stuff out into 
with a voice that maybe we're 

676
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,080
perhaps not used to and that 
kind of springboards be over. 

677
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,160
I do want to get into the comedy
a little bit of it. 

678
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,440
You see a lot of comics that are
out there and I'm a big fan of 

679
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,680
stand ups and there's a lot of 
stand ups out there who put a 

680
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,760
message into their into their 
material. 

681
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,640
Are you that guy? 
Are you still figuring it out 

682
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,000
because you know, you're you're 
still relatively new to the full

683
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,080
time aspect of it? 
Is it, is it something that you 

684
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:09,600
want to mandate as you build 
your material? 

685
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,080
Because I'm certain that that 
that this could lead to perhaps 

686
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:15,880
a little bit darker, but a whole
bunch of material that you could

687
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:18,120
come out with this as well. 
Yeah. 

688
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:22,320
I mean, my main message right 
now is just to, like I said 

689
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:24,480
before, was to tell people, 
don't get into law enforcement, 

690
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:26,960
get into some sort of the arts. 
I think it's better. 

691
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,160
And what I've been weaving into 
it is prison and how 

692
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:32,080
dysfunctional prison was. 
I mean, when I worked in the 

693
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:35,760
prison, I had more problems with
the, with the people I worked 

694
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:39,560
with and the prisoners. 
And so conveying that and and 

695
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,640
then when you're, when I was in,
you know, that business, you're 

696
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:44,920
not allowed to talk about what 
you do. 

697
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:50,120
I had AI had a guy one time that
saw me one night in a comedy 

698
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,960
club and he threatened me at the
office the next day because 

699
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:54,160
you're not allowed to do 
anything else. 

700
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,440
So it's really is a cult and 
you're and you become, your mind

701
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,960
becomes very warped because they
don't want you to succeed. 

702
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,960
They want to hold you down, 
going back to the power part, 

703
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:06,960
but I'm in this position, you 
know, I'm in this position of it

704
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,200
really is. 
The prison looks at it like it's

705
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:14,240
inmates against the the guards 
and you have to be around these 

706
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,560
guys all the time. 
And you're, you obviously become

707
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:18,680
friends with them, but you're 
not supposed to. 

708
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:19,640
And so you have all these 
people. 

709
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,120
It's all this negativity, all 
these people telling you what's 

710
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,680
wrong with you. 
And then if you try to seek some

711
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:26,400
sort of therapy, you can lose 
your job. 

712
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:30,440
You can especially, you know, if
you're on the street, you go to 

713
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:32,280
therapy, you're going to lose 
your badge and your gun because 

714
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:33,320
you're not allowed to go to 
therapy. 

715
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:37,840
So constantly being blamed for 
everything, constantly saying 

716
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:39,520
that there's no way out, 
constantly no outlet. 

717
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,400
And that transitions into I've 
had six of my coworkers that 

718
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:44,920
took their own lives because of 
that, because they feel like 

719
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,320
there's no nothing left to do. 
I can't talk to anybody. 

720
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,960
You know, you can't basically 
nobody relates. 

721
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:52,760
And I've lived that life for a 
very long time. 

722
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:56,560
I lived with, I would just tell 
people I was a comedian rather 

723
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:58,800
than a parole agent because 
people didn't even understand 

724
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,320
what a parole agent was. 
And if he did repeat it to them,

725
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:03,840
then they would say, well, I 
don't like the fact you give out

726
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:05,440
tickets. 
Well, I don't give out tickets. 

727
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,600
I never have. 
And again, it's just society. 

728
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,280
They didn't. 
To them, it wasn't a job where 

729
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:13,600
they really, you know, you were 
kind of hidden. 

730
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,040
And then the department didn't 
want the public to know what you

731
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,400
did either. 
So people made-up their own 

732
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:20,760
assumptions about what's going 
on, which they still do. 

733
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,200
I mean, they think, you know, 
everybody in their prison is 

734
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:24,600
suffering. 
They don't really think about 

735
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:25,880
all these guys have been in 
prison. 

736
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:27,560
It's a subculture of our 
culture. 

737
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:28,960
They've been in prison their 
whole lives. 

738
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,240
They're comfortable with it. 
I wasn't comfortable with it. 

739
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:36,360
But they see things differently.
So it's just your perception of 

740
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:40,360
the. 
So there's a whole bunch of 

741
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:44,000
stuff there. 
I just, it's funny because you 

742
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,080
know, loneliness, when you look 
at he changed it, right? 

743
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:48,600
He changed it. 
There's a bunch of different 

744
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,600
pain points that are kind of up 
at the top of the of what men, 

745
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:53,880
especially specifically 
middle-aged men are, are, are 

746
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,320
going through. 
And I mean, one of them is lack 

747
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,000
of purpose, but another huge one
is loneliness. 

748
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,840
And loneliness you can have, you
can be surrounded by friends, 

749
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,520
bring a party in your honor and 
you could be the most lonely 

750
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,440
person in the room, you know. 
And, and so they talk about 

751
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,600
loneliness and, and the fact and
to bring it back to prison for a

752
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:17,239
second, how, how solitary 
changes people and, and, and 

753
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,760
it's so ironic. 
The irony is astounding to me 

754
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:21,960
because what you're talking 
about to me is that you're being

755
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:26,960
influenced to essentially live a
life of mental solitary of, of, 

756
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,120
of, of, of not being able to, of
compartmentalizing you to the 

757
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:31,920
point where you're not supposed 
to talk about these things. 

758
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,679
It's funny because I've had a 
lot of Canadian law enforcement 

759
00:34:35,679 --> 00:34:41,679
on and, and, and you know, up 
here, there at least seems to be

760
00:34:41,679 --> 00:34:48,520
an effort to the idea of helping
these, you know, not just 

761
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:55,480
police, but first responders 
with the mental toils that come 

762
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,640
with the job. 
And it seems to have a lot more 

763
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,280
awareness than it did, say, when
I was growing up 20 years ago 

764
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:04,280
or, or 30 years ago now, I guess
I'm a Gen. 

765
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:04,880
Xer. 
So are you. 

766
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:06,760
So. 
So, yeah, as we were growing up,

767
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:11,720
the stigma was astounding. 
You know, nobody was supposed to

768
00:35:11,720 --> 00:35:13,480
talk about this stuff. 
PTSD was. 

769
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:15,600
It was, you know, being proven 
at that point. 

770
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:17,560
You know, it wasn't. 
It wasn't a household name. 

771
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:23,280
The way it is now is that is the
ship turning at all. 

772
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:26,440
In your experience, in the 
corrections from the place that 

773
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:28,240
you were, do you see that ship 
turning at all? 

774
00:35:28,240 --> 00:35:31,760
Are people being influenced to 
talk about stuff? 

775
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:33,600
Are there programs available 
that are there? 

776
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:35,800
I mean, what you paint, the 
picture you painted was pretty 

777
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:37,800
bleak. 
Yeah, I mean, it's shifted. 

778
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:39,240
It just hasn't shifted in the 
right direction. 

779
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:42,080
And I think a lot of it just has
to do with, you know, for 

780
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:46,600
example, with what they do with 
the laws in our state is they'll

781
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:51,600
go to a, a college campus and 
they'll have a survey and 

782
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:54,440
they'll go and they'll pay the 
parolees to take the survey. 

783
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,600
Well, you're, you're not, 
you're, you're taking a survey 

784
00:35:57,600 --> 00:35:59,480
out of a parole office, but 
you're not ever asking any of 

785
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,360
the parole agents about the guys
that they supervised. 

786
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:05,640
You're just going to the guys 
and having them fill out a 

787
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:07,160
survey. 
And then so you're, you've 

788
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:08,640
already brought your perception 
into it. 

789
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,240
So they are trying to change it,
but in my opinion, they're 

790
00:36:12,240 --> 00:36:14,560
changing it the wrong way. 
So like one of the things they 

791
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,640
did right before I retired was 
they lowered all these laws so 

792
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:19,160
nobody was held accountable for 
anything. 

793
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,720
And me as a parole agent 
constantly blamed for somebody 

794
00:36:22,720 --> 00:36:24,600
committing a crime. 
And so that's one of the things 

795
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:26,640
that you need to change. 
You need to, if you commit a 

796
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:28,600
crime, you need to have 
accountability for that crime. 

797
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,200
It's nobody else's fault. 
But that's kind of seeped into 

798
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:33,760
everybody's mind is we're 
feeling sorry for the criminal. 

799
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:35,680
We're not feeling sorry for the 
victim anymore. 

800
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:37,840
And we're certainly not feeling 
sorry for the law enforcement. 

801
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,360
And then in what I would see in 
Los Angeles, it's like, hey, 

802
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,000
we're here to help you. 
We're going to shoot you 4 

803
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:46,280
times, you know, and then figure
it out later. 

804
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:48,760
So they'll say that they're here
to help you. 

805
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:51,760
But like one of the things that 
I always ran into with parole 

806
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:55,880
was they'd get out of prison and
there'd be a panel of all these 

807
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:57,920
professionals waiting for him to
get out of prison. 

808
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:01,040
And they just sent him to my 
office with instructions to come

809
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:03,600
to my office. 
And he's going to find housing 

810
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:05,000
for you. 
He's going to find a job that 

811
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:08,040
simply doesn't exist. 
So the Department of Corrections

812
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,320
doesn't have any housing. 
They don't they don't fund any 

813
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:11,760
housing. 
So you'd have guys that would be

814
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:13,360
homeless. 
They'd come in on a Friday at 

815
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:15,080
5:00. 
Well he's going to be homeless 

816
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,640
till Monday until I can try to 
find him some sort of housing 

817
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,160
that is not run by a. 
Halfway house or something? 

818
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:22,360
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
And. 

819
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,920
There's very few and far between
because they're taking private, 

820
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:29,400
which is they can get 60,000 a 
month for private insurance. 

821
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:31,640
So they're gonna take the 
private guy over the state guy 

822
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:33,640
and then they're gonna take the 
federal guy because they get 3 

823
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:36,480
times more than the state guy. 
So again, it's all a money 

824
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,160
racket that nobody wants to talk
about. 

825
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:39,880
They could easily house the 
guys. 

826
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:41,920
I mean, I had an office. 
I would always bring this up, 

827
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:43,400
too. 
Was we had empty. 

828
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:45,840
We had empty offices in my 
building. 

829
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:47,960
Why don't we house them there? 
How dare you? 

830
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:50,880
And I'm like, but isn't this 
like a, aren't we trying to, 

831
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:53,880
like, help human beings here? 
And it was just like, yeah. 

832
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:56,880
And that was another thing that 
I always felt it was a cult also

833
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,400
because you were just chastised 
if you ever brought up an idea 

834
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:01,960
like you have an empty room. 
This guy could stay here for a 

835
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:03,080
night till he figures something 
out. 

836
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:05,960
A transitional housing. 
You're Oh my God, I can't 

837
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,480
believe you would bring this up.
You know you're you're a monster

838
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:11,480
once. 
Again, we're talking about 

839
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:14,040
creativity being stifled. 
I mean, that's a creative idea. 

840
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:16,320
That's a creative. 
It's, it's worth exploring, you 

841
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:19,800
know, and, and, and whether it's
right or wrong, it's feasible or

842
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,760
not. 
There should be no bad ideas 

843
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:24,520
when it comes to fixing such a 
problem. 

844
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,280
Yeah, I mean, one of the one of 
my gripes always was I would 

845
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,280
stay with somebody. 
I would get to know the parolee 

846
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:33,120
for up to three years, sometimes
longer. 

847
00:38:33,720 --> 00:38:36,480
And then the my supervisor would
just look at the crime that they

848
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,840
committed and not the background
of the crime and and say he, you

849
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:41,520
know, he's a monster. 
Retain him on parole, keep him 

850
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:43,200
on parole. 
Even though I've gone to bat for

851
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,040
the guy and said I don't think 
he's ever going to commit a 

852
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:47,440
crime ever again. 
I mean, he got a he got a job, 

853
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:48,960
he got a place to live right 
away. 

854
00:38:49,720 --> 00:38:52,480
He's not a threat to society. 
No, I'm going to retain him 

855
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,960
because again, it makes the 
supervisor look better when you 

856
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:57,360
have all these people that are 
on parole. 

857
00:38:57,360 --> 00:38:59,640
It's protecting all of those 
jobs rather than you're 

858
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:01,520
discharging them. 
So the numbers lower down. 

859
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:04,000
So again, it's it's money, it's 
a numbers game. 

860
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:08,280
And that killed me. 
It hurt a lot where you would 

861
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:12,120
legitimately be trying to help 
somebody and and it would be the

862
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:14,000
people that you worked with that
were sabotaging what you were 

863
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:18,120
doing. 
It's a frustrating place to be 

864
00:39:18,720 --> 00:39:21,640
and, and never mind the fact 
that you've got, you know, good 

865
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:23,840
corrections officers who are 
actually in the prisons 

866
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:27,080
themselves, they're seeing some 
stuff and and they're not in a 

867
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:30,080
position where they can 
necessarily talk to people about

868
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,080
what they're seeing or hearing 
as as well. 

869
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:34,720
And I mean, you've got, you 
know, a lot of rocks between a 

870
00:39:34,720 --> 00:39:38,080
lot of hard places. 
I appreciate the fact that that 

871
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:41,200
we can talk about this today and
we can, you know, bring 

872
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:44,160
awareness to the issue and 
hopefully there this falls on 

873
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:48,360
some ears of people that can 
minimum relate and perhaps 

874
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:50,080
again, not know that they're not
alone. 

875
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:53,560
But you know, the more we talk 
about this in the different 

876
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:56,680
venues, the more awareness is 
going to be out there and if the

877
00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:00,840
tide turns from a social 
standpoint and people. 

878
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:03,840
Start to stand up about this. 
That's really the only way it's 

879
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:05,440
going to change. 
I appreciate the fact that you 

880
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:07,640
do that now. 
Now let's take it back to stand 

881
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:09,680
up for a second because again, a
lot of guys are living these 

882
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:12,240
quiet lives of desperation that 
we talked about and they need an

883
00:40:12,240 --> 00:40:16,240
outlet of some sort in the, in 
my little stand up world up here

884
00:40:16,240 --> 00:40:19,040
in Kelowna, BC you know, you, 
there's, there's always a scene.

885
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:21,560
You know, if, if you've got a 
stand up scene, you've got 

886
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,000
these, these, these comics of 
all sorts of different shapes 

887
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:25,920
and sizes and genders and 
they're everywhere and they've 

888
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:27,320
all got a story and they've all 
got stuff. 

889
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:31,320
One of the commonalities that I 
seem to see is that it's an 

890
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:33,160
outlet for the ones that are 
doing it part time. 

891
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:35,000
The ones that are doing it full 
time, it doesn't matter. 

892
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:39,000
It's an outlet for them. 
Was stand up always an outlet 

893
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,280
for you even in like what 
entertained you growing up? 

894
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:43,400
Did you love stand up growing up
as a medium? 

895
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:46,920
Yeah, I always loved. 
I mean, those are my heroes 

896
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:49,760
were, you know. 
Name some of them. 

897
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:50,560
Let's hear your heroes. 
Well. 

898
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:52,040
I. 
Mean I always loved Chevy Chase 

899
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:55,040
until I think recently he became
insane. 

900
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:58,160
And that's kind of the thing 
where I don't want to meet your 

901
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:03,360
heroes, but one of the early on 
comedians was Kirk Fox and I 

902
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:07,160
just loved his persona. 
And so I was like that what kind

903
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:11,000
of what got me into it was I saw
him one night and I was like, I 

904
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:14,160
really liked his presence and he
and that's what what I was like,

905
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:16,080
Oh, I I could do that's 
something I could do. 

906
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:18,560
I could do that presence. 
And how I got started in comedy 

907
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:22,440
was I was in college and there 
was a band and the band wanted, 

908
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:25,760
I got up one night and it was in
front of like 100 people on the 

909
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:29,000
street. 
And I, I, I imitated Eddie 

910
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:36,040
Murphy imitating somebody else 
and everybody cheer. 

911
00:41:36,240 --> 00:41:38,320
It always seems that way. 
Your first time is you get a lot

912
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:40,600
of laughs. 
And so that encourage that 

913
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:43,360
encourages you. 
So I open for this band and I 

914
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:45,720
just bombed every time. 
And I and I didn't realize 

915
00:41:45,720 --> 00:41:47,840
because I didn't have the 
Internet at the time was don't 

916
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:49,880
ever open for music. 
Music and comedy don't go 

917
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:51,200
together. 
Don't ever open for a band. 

918
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:52,960
It's. 
Very tough, very tough. 

919
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:54,320
So I. 
Stopped doing it for a while and

920
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:57,720
then picked it back up. 
So it was always something that 

921
00:41:57,720 --> 00:42:00,600
I wanted to continue to do and 
it scared me to death. 

922
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,040
But I just figured, hey, I 
worked in a prison that scared 

923
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:05,200
me. 
Also, I could, I can do comedy 

924
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:07,880
and I just look at it like every
single time I'm going to go up 

925
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:12,920
there and I'll just try to bomb.
And if it does, hey, if it I'm 

926
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:15,760
successful, then I'm successful.
But it hurts every time. 

927
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:18,960
But it is to me therapy because 
I see so many people that are 

928
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:21,440
wounded that are up there and 
they've had horrible lives. 

929
00:42:21,720 --> 00:42:24,360
And I just consider myself, I 
didn't have a great life either.

930
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:27,160
And that's what we're all doing.
We're just taking it day by day 

931
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:29,200
and managing it. 
I mean, what are you gonna do? 

932
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:31,560
You're gonna play golf or you're
gonna go do comedy? 

933
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:33,600
I'd rather do comedy than play 
golf. 

934
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:34,920
And I just look at it like it's 
my golf. 

935
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:40,280
Yeah, I, I dig that a lot. 
I, I, you know, it's funny. 

936
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:42,000
I want to go back to the don't 
meet your heroes for a second 

937
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,720
here, because I, I'm super 
curious in the stand up world. 

938
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:48,240
It feels like and it's always 
been, you know, don't get me 

939
00:42:48,240 --> 00:42:51,640
wrong, I I look at stand ups as 
just like I look at pro 

940
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:53,280
wrestlers. 
You know, there every single 

941
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:56,280
ones got a unique persona and a 
unique character. 

942
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:57,880
Some of them are are true 
characters. 

943
00:42:57,880 --> 00:42:59,560
Some of them it's just them with
the volume turned up. 

944
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:02,320
I wanna I'm curious about you 
and, and as you're finding your 

945
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:05,240
voice, what that looks like. 
But the idea, like you talk 

946
00:43:05,240 --> 00:43:09,960
about Chevy Chase earlier, you 
know, the idea of separating the

947
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:14,920
art from the artist and, and, 
and how in other times, other, 

948
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:18,040
other other times in our, in 
our, in our generation times in,

949
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:22,880
in, in places, it seems that art
and who the actual person is 

950
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:27,880
could be very easily separated. 
And there wasn't a lot of, you 

951
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:30,600
know, obviously in heinous 
cases, perhaps there was, but 

952
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:32,960
there there wasn't a lot of 
people who like, I think about 

953
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:35,200
Andrew Dice Clay and, and, and 
one of the very first comics to 

954
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:37,160
sell out MSG, if not the very 
first one. 

955
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:42,360
You know, back in the day and, 
and, and when you looked at, you

956
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:48,720
know, the Dice band character 
versus, you know, who he was off

957
00:43:48,720 --> 00:43:52,320
stage, even as, even as he was 
becoming an actor as Andrew Clay

958
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:55,880
at the time. 
You know, people could, could 

959
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:58,400
for the most part separate it. 
You get a few people who would 

960
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:00,960
protest and things like that, 
but for the most part, people 

961
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:03,000
could separate it. 
Now we kind of live in a bit of 

962
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:08,160
a topsy turvy time where, you 
know, how somebody is personally

963
00:44:08,720 --> 00:44:12,880
very much affects the opinion of
people, how they are 

964
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:14,000
professionally. 
Oh, yeah. 

965
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:17,280
And I just want to know if, if 
if how you feel about the 

966
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:18,960
pendulum swinging the way it's 
going. 

967
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:20,680
Is it real? 
Is it imagined? 

968
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:24,080
You know, when you take someone 
like Chappelle, you know, going 

969
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:25,680
in front of a stadium saying, am
I cancelled? 

970
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:27,280
OK. 
But that's also the biggest 

971
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:30,000
comic in the world. 
When you look at people who are 

972
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:33,720
grinding it out on the indie 
side of things. 

973
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:36,520
I wonder if the if the 
perspective is different. 

974
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:38,720
So I don't know if that's 
something that you have been 

975
00:44:38,720 --> 00:44:40,680
aware of a little while, if you 
got anything to say about that. 

976
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:42,320
But it's something that 
fascinates me, yeah. 

977
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:44,480
No, I mean, there's certain 
things I can and cannot say. 

978
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:46,360
And there's, I mean, there's 
definitely stuff that I'm not 

979
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,600
ever going to say, but I just 
look at that like I can write 

980
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:51,920
those jokes for somebody else 
and give those jokes to somebody

981
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:53,680
else that I, that I consider to 
be funny. 

982
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:56,360
And that's what I do. 
Hey, this isn't going to work 

983
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:57,680
for me, but maybe this will work
for you. 

984
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:00,480
And the other side of that is a 
lot of people don't want to hear

985
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:01,280
it. 
They don't want to hear your 

986
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:03,400
stuff. 
So that's what I, I usually 

987
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:05,640
don't say anything, but if I get
to know the comic, I go, hey, if

988
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:09,800
you ever need this because 
everybody needs more time, maybe

989
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:14,480
this, maybe you could work this.
But what's interesting to me is 

990
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:20,600
probably around 2008, everybody 
thought comedy was going to die 

991
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:22,640
because nobody was really 
showing up and going out. 

992
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:24,520
And then COVID came and COVID 
kind of turned everything 

993
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:26,880
around. 
So I, my perspective has changed

994
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:30,920
where it, it ebbs and flows. 
I mean, comedy comes and goes. 

995
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:32,520
Right now, people want to go 
out. 

996
00:45:32,720 --> 00:45:34,480
I don't get it. 
I don't want to go watch comedy,

997
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:37,360
but people want to go out. 
And I think that COVID did that,

998
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:39,800
that made people realize, you 
know, hey, you don't want to be 

999
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:42,280
at home looking at your phone. 
You want to go out and socialize

1000
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:45,440
with people. 
So it really revived comedy and 

1001
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:49,120
I'm thankful for that. 
And now that I'm, you know, 

1002
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:52,440
retired, my, my mindset is in a 
different place than it was when

1003
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:56,200
I was doing it before. 
And so I, I look at it like I'm 

1004
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:58,240
always thankful for my stage 
time. 

1005
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:02,440
I could see myself when I'm 
younger as being pissed off and 

1006
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:05,160
negative. 
And, you know, I'm mad at the, 

1007
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:07,400
I'm mad at the crowd because 
they're not laughing, but that's

1008
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:11,040
not their job. 
So I just have learned that 

1009
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:12,880
comedy changes all the time. 
And you got to go with it. 

1010
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:17,720
That's your job. 
You mentioned that that you're 

1011
00:46:17,720 --> 00:46:19,920
not in a place where you want to
go out and necessarily watch 

1012
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:22,520
comedy right now. 
I've heard it both ways. 

1013
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:25,960
I've heard some comics who talk 
about the idea of they immerse 

1014
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:29,640
themselves in everything to see 
what's out there and to and to 

1015
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:32,000
kind of figure out who they are 
and what their place is, that 

1016
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:33,280
sort of thing. 
And I've heard of ones who say 

1017
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:36,160
they don't listen to anything 
because it influences them. 

1018
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:39,360
And, and, and so I've literally 
heard it both ways. 

1019
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:42,160
Are there anybody out there that
you would go out of your way to 

1020
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:43,640
see? 
Is there anybody or, or are you 

1021
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:47,120
of the opinion that because you 
are building new material 

1022
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:49,680
yourself, you don't want to be 
influenced by anybody else? 

1023
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:50,720
Are you or somewhere in the 
middle? 

1024
00:46:50,720 --> 00:46:53,040
No, because I'm always writing. 
That's always going to give me 

1025
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:56,160
an idea for something else. 
When I'm in the presence, I 

1026
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:57,680
consider it being in the 
presence of greatness. 

1027
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:01,160
I just mean, I will always go 
support and see comedians. 

1028
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:04,360
It's just that I don't want to 
be there and that's just like to

1029
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:05,920
go out. 
I have a I'm a basically a 

1030
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:09,200
agoraphobic person that will go 
and support you, but I'm not 

1031
00:47:09,240 --> 00:47:11,920
going to do it multiple times. 
But you know, I just watched Jay

1032
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:14,240
Leno do an hour. 
He was great. 

1033
00:47:14,240 --> 00:47:16,800
I'd never seen him before, but I
did that specifically now that I

1034
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:21,720
have time to do it and to 
support him and my God, he's 

1035
00:47:21,720 --> 00:47:22,920
killing it. 
You know, he's he was doing 

1036
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:23,520
great. 
Where? 

1037
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:25,600
Was he at the Comedy Magic Club 
or was he at one of his? 

1038
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:27,720
Benefits that he does. 
He was at Flappers in Burbank. 

1039
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:29,680
Oh, we went to Flappers. 
OK. 

1040
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:31,680
Yeah. 
Good, good friend of mine. 

1041
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:34,400
A shout out to Gabe Abelson, 
good friend of mine who, who 

1042
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:36,880
does comedy classes at Flappers 
sometimes and things like that. 

1043
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:38,640
And he, I know that's a place 
that he likes to go to. 

1044
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:41,680
You perform at the Ice House, 
the legendary Ice House. 

1045
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:43,320
That's one of the places you 
like to perform. 

1046
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:47,600
How often are you there? 
I used to be there all the time 

1047
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:50,600
and then when my daughter got 
sick I stopped going there. 

1048
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:53,680
So now I go to mainly go to 
Flappers and Comedy Chateau 

1049
00:47:53,720 --> 00:47:55,880
right now just because of 
driving. 

1050
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:57,480
It's just strategically easy. 
Yeah. 

1051
00:47:57,560 --> 00:47:58,360
Geography. 
Yeah. 

1052
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:02,200
So, but I went to the Ice House 
I think about a week ago. 

1053
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:04,840
I just, I love the Ice House. 
The reason that I love the Ice 

1054
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:08,760
House is that families go there.
The crowd is more comfortable 

1055
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:10,680
when you're going to other 
places that are more like 

1056
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:14,480
Hollywood. 
It's just this idea of people in

1057
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:16,840
the crowd think they're famous. 
And it's kind of this 

1058
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:19,440
competition that you're feeling 
with everybody. 

1059
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:22,920
But it's a great place like the 
Comedy Store, Laugh Factory, 

1060
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:25,640
Hollywood Improv. 
Those are great places. 

1061
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:28,160
And I encourage anybody and I 
meet people all the time. 

1062
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:31,800
They're rolling the dice. 
They've most people that are in 

1063
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:35,200
LA have moved from all over the 
world to come do stand up. 

1064
00:48:35,240 --> 00:48:37,400
And that's why I think it's the 
greatest place in the world and 

1065
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:39,960
I'll never leave Los Angeles. 
That's what I want to do. 

1066
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:43,360
You know, that's I have fun 
doing that, even though at times

1067
00:48:43,720 --> 00:48:46,240
the traffic annoys me and I 
don't like getting over there. 

1068
00:48:46,240 --> 00:48:48,880
But that's what you do as the 
comedian. 

1069
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:53,320
You find the places that you 
like and it's just repetitive. 

1070
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:56,280
You're doing it over and over 
and over again, and hopefully 

1071
00:48:56,280 --> 00:49:00,960
it's gonna work out. 
As I try and find my voice with 

1072
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:03,680
it, one thing I can do is 
obviously I can communicate and 

1073
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:05,280
things like that. 
I can do that on stage just as 

1074
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:06,680
well as I can in front of the 
camera here. 

1075
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:09,160
That part there is good. 
So when I started doing it, some

1076
00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:11,040
of the locals were like where 
did this guy come from? 

1077
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:14,200
Because many of them are 
fighting through the idea of 

1078
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:17,280
actually being able to be on 
stage with a, you know, a 

1079
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:19,920
captive audience and silence. 
I have no problem with silence 

1080
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:22,600
because if I'm doing a, a 
financial seminar, say, you 

1081
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:25,360
know, it's silent until I make 
them laugh. 

1082
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:28,520
And, and, and, and so I'm used 
to the silence if I'm, you know,

1083
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:30,840
trying to make them laugh. 
But what I do is my entry point 

1084
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:34,160
to it has been stories. 
And as I tell the stories, every

1085
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:36,480
once in a while, I'm able to 
throw something into the story 

1086
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:39,400
that becomes a joke. 
That's been my entry point so 

1087
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:42,200
far as to how to do this. 
You are a storyteller. 

1088
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:43,480
Clearly you've gone through 
stuff. 

1089
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:47,760
You're you're a writer. 
Do, do do actual writing jokes 

1090
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:51,240
and gags come easily to you? 
Or are you somebody who will 

1091
00:49:51,240 --> 00:49:54,120
write a narrative and then build
the jokes into it from there? 

1092
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:56,120
Yeah. 
I'll just, I'll kind of reverse 

1093
00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:58,360
engineer it. 
You know, they said like every 

1094
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:00,680
writing class I take. 
As I say, take that idea and 

1095
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:03,480
then make three more out of it. 
I'll, I'll usually just take the

1096
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:07,320
idea, write one joke, and then 
it takes a while when I'm 

1097
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:09,160
telling that joke, whether it 
works or not. 

1098
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:11,280
Because a lot of times you as a 
comedian thinks something's 

1099
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:13,760
hilarious and you're not getting
a response from the audience. 

1100
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:16,160
You just have to let it go. 
And so that's what I've realized

1101
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:18,640
with writing. 
If you can let stuff go and not 

1102
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:21,480
hold on to it. 
A lot of life, what I didn't 

1103
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:24,000
realize before is just improv. 
It's you're saying all this 

1104
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:26,960
stuff and you're not, and try 
not to get your feelings hurt 

1105
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:30,000
and, and, and try not to have 
any emotions about it and just 

1106
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:31,520
let it go. 
And that's kind of the hardest 

1107
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:34,640
things for comedians is, you 
know, you're up there telling 

1108
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:36,840
your vulnerabilities and you're 
wanting people to laugh and 

1109
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:38,760
sometimes they're not going to 
laugh. 

1110
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:42,280
And you, that's what you do. 
Then you go back and you rework 

1111
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:44,400
it. 
So I just look at it like a job.

1112
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:48,720
It's, it's your job as a 
comedian to get that, get that 

1113
00:50:48,720 --> 00:50:52,240
time in there and perfect that, 
you know, you when you're 

1114
00:50:52,240 --> 00:50:54,280
starting out, you're doing 5 
minutes, so perfect that 5 

1115
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:55,960
minutes. 
And then I go from chunks, you 

1116
00:50:55,960 --> 00:51:00,920
know, five 10/15/2020 5:30 but 
it, it's a struggle. 

1117
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:03,920
But it's like anything else. 
It's a, you know, it's a job. 

1118
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:07,680
That's the way I think a lot of 
people, they just, you know, I 

1119
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:10,600
see this with acting is they 
think it's going to be this 

1120
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:13,040
glamorous thing where 
everybody's pampering you. 

1121
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:17,200
No, it's you're on set for, you 
know, 14 hours. 

1122
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:20,040
It's hot or it's cold and the 
crafty guy doesn't want to give 

1123
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:22,360
you a grilled cheese sandwich 
because he hates you. 

1124
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:26,800
So there's some great things 
about comedy that are better 

1125
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:29,880
than you know. 
But people think that's what I 

1126
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:32,080
see at least, is people think 
that they're going to become 

1127
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:34,240
famous and it's not. 
It's a job. 

1128
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:36,640
Just be thankful you're getting 
paid, you know? 

1129
00:51:38,720 --> 00:51:41,880
And a job that you know you're 
not on a factory line or 

1130
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:44,320
something like that, you're able
to use your creativity for it 

1131
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:46,800
and and what not. 
Do you write everyday Mike I. 

1132
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:52,200
I do just because I am always 
writing novels or script. 

1133
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:55,200
I've always got something and I 
do that because I have always 

1134
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:59,160
looked at it like I was always 
somebody that had a lot of, you 

1135
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:01,840
know, I think a lot of it 
because of the job gave me PTSD 

1136
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:05,160
and it was just my therapy and 
my outlet was I'm constantly 

1137
00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:07,680
writing stuff down, you know, 
little notes and stuff like that

1138
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:11,040
and then putting them back 
together, filing them. 

1139
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:15,200
So I'm always constantly writing
something and hopefully, you 

1140
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:19,240
know, especially with like 
scripts, you're you're hopefully

1141
00:52:19,240 --> 00:52:21,440
you're going to meet somebody 
that be like, hey, I need that. 

1142
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:24,040
So you're kind of you're kind of
writing. 

1143
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:25,440
Same with comedy. 
I always look at it like you're 

1144
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:27,200
doing comedy until you don't 
have to do comedy. 

1145
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:29,520
So I'm writing until I don't 
have to do writing. 

1146
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:32,040
But a lot of the writing is just
I always looked at it like this 

1147
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:34,360
is keeping me sane. 
I'm going to continue to do it. 

1148
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:38,760
Well, again, the outlet and 
there's a lot of guys who are, 

1149
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:43,880
who are, who have creativity 
inside them, but life is just so

1150
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:46,720
hectic and chaotic where they're
not, they're they, they, they 

1151
00:52:46,720 --> 00:52:48,360
don't get it out. 
And I mean, like, I love the 

1152
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:49,840
idea. 
Like, again, I've got a couple 

1153
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:52,840
of, well, I've got a couple of 
little careers here that I, that

1154
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:55,400
I have. 
But to me, going out once a week

1155
00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:59,920
and getting that, getting that 
mic, that stage time, you know, 

1156
00:52:59,920 --> 00:53:01,760
it's, it's, it's an outlet, it's
a release. 

1157
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:02,920
It's, it's, it's that kind of 
thing. 

1158
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:05,920
You've had both, you've had it 
where you were working a job 

1159
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:09,160
that you could not stop working.
You had to, because, you know, 

1160
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:12,360
you had to get things done. 
You had to grind it out and you 

1161
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:14,720
use it as an outlet, maybe a 
moonlighting outlet, one that, 

1162
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:16,840
you know, people didn't 
necessarily need to know. 

1163
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:20,240
And then you were able to say, 
OK, I'm gonna go do this as an 

1164
00:53:20,240 --> 00:53:24,000
actual job. 
Do you get, are you scratching 

1165
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:27,480
the same itch or and you're just
scratching it harder now? 

1166
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:30,920
Or is it a different, is it a 
different beast now that you're 

1167
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:35,640
doing it more as as a as a 
vocation rather than a hobby? 

1168
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:37,240
I'm. 
I'm just going harder than I 

1169
00:53:37,240 --> 00:53:38,880
could before. 
And a lot of it is also, you 

1170
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:42,600
know, I tell people younger 
people also is if you have a 

1171
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:44,680
family and you want to be in 
this business, it's extremely 

1172
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:48,360
hard because you're like, when 
you're doing comedy, like last 

1173
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:52,400
night I was got home at 1:00. 
That's hard on your family. 

1174
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:54,920
And a lot of people don't they 
they're like, no, my family is 

1175
00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:56,840
going to support you. 
They're not really going to 

1176
00:53:56,840 --> 00:53:58,600
support you. 
They're not going to like that 

1177
00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:01,000
you're not around. 
And that's the hard, hard part 

1178
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:05,720
where now that I'm retired and I
don't have a job, I can, I, can 

1179
00:54:05,720 --> 00:54:08,520
I spend the time and which I 
couldn't do before. 

1180
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:12,000
So I'm trying to get out there 
five days a week, which in 

1181
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:14,680
reality, you really should be 
doing 20 times a week. 

1182
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:19,040
You should be going up 
constantly, which is this is now

1183
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:22,360
a great time, which never 
existed before, which is you can

1184
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:24,960
go to all of these open mics and
you could book your time on 

1185
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:27,080
Instagram. 
You can pick and choose. 

1186
00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:28,400
And they're running all the 
time. 

1187
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:31,560
And these places weren't around 
when I started doing it. 

1188
00:54:32,240 --> 00:54:35,560
Or you can film your film your 
own stuff, which you couldn't do

1189
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:36,960
before. 
You can create your own. 

1190
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:40,080
That's another thing that I see 
is I see people that have never 

1191
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:43,440
gone on stage that are making 
money as a comedian. 

1192
00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:47,040
So everything's changed. 
And I think it's changed into to

1193
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:49,560
the advantage for everybody. 
But it just comes down to people

1194
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:51,560
don't want to hear that. 
They want to hear what's the 

1195
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:55,000
easiest way I can get there, you
know, with the minimal amount of

1196
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:57,400
time that I have to spend. 
And that's what it is. 

1197
00:54:57,400 --> 00:54:59,520
You're going up against time, a 
lot of time. 

1198
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:02,920
And, and that's especially with 
comedy, you're sitting there, 

1199
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:06,880
you know, the way that comedy 
is, is you've got to bring 

1200
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:11,040
people and then they want to 
sell drinks and people aren't 

1201
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:13,160
drinking alcohol the way that 
they were before. 

1202
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:17,240
So people, people don't want to,
you know, so everybody, the 

1203
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:19,560
comedy clubs kind of can't 
figure out what they're supposed

1204
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:22,160
to be doing. 
So again, you're in a 

1205
00:55:22,560 --> 00:55:25,440
interesting situation business 
wise for a lot of these places. 

1206
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:28,000
Well, yeah. 
And I mean, we've seen it like, 

1207
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:29,800
again, you know, there might be 
younger people that are 

1208
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:32,920
listening to this or viewing 
this and, and I mean, they don't

1209
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:35,720
understand where Mike and I came
from in the sense of, of, of, of

1210
00:55:35,720 --> 00:55:39,360
we've seen a comedy kind of, 
we've seen it expand and 

1211
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:42,080
contract a few times. 
Like we have, you know, but, but

1212
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:45,080
again, the, the, the net result 
seems to be that it's that it's 

1213
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:49,040
growing and growing and growing.
Like, again, you know, Andrew 

1214
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:51,280
Dice Clay selling out Madison 
Square Garden, right? 

1215
00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:53,240
Didn't happen for a while, for a
long time. 

1216
00:55:53,240 --> 00:55:55,800
And then, you know, Dane Cook 
shows up and it's like, oh man, 

1217
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:59,240
OK, here we go. 
And then, you know, contracts a 

1218
00:55:59,240 --> 00:56:00,880
little bit. 
And then, you know, Rogan and 

1219
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:03,280
his crew and some of these 
other, these other people 

1220
00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:04,640
bringing so much awareness to 
it. 

1221
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:06,840
You see it expanding. 
Yet now we're at a place where, 

1222
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:08,840
like you say, it's happening all
the time. 

1223
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:12,520
You've got killed Tony selling 
out Madison Square Garden, Never

1224
00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:14,120
mind, you know, a headliner or 
whatever. 

1225
00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:17,880
You've got this random show with
random people and, and, and, and

1226
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:20,000
it's selling out all of these 
places now. 

1227
00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:21,880
So it is a great time to be in 
comedy. 

1228
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:25,120
Like you say, the local guy got 
to figure out a way to, to re 

1229
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:28,560
monetize or change the way that 
they monetize because Gen. 

1230
00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:31,480
Z isn't drinking as much. 
They're just not. 

1231
00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:33,920
And, and it's, it's across the 
board, people in the restaurant 

1232
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:36,520
business, people in the 
entertainment business, you 

1233
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:37,600
know, people in the nightclub 
business. 

1234
00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:39,680
I mean, you look at how many 
nightclubs are closing down 

1235
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:42,360
because of these things. 
But but the art form itself, 

1236
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:47,240
because it's such a, it's so 
personal, but it's so universal 

1237
00:56:47,240 --> 00:56:49,080
at the same time. 
It's both at the exact same 

1238
00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:50,720
time, right? 
You know, the person that's 

1239
00:56:50,720 --> 00:56:53,960
going up, you going up there and
literally taking chunks of your 

1240
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:58,520
soul, exposing them and then 
exaggerating them. 

1241
00:56:59,240 --> 00:57:01,840
You know it, it's you, it's so 
personal. 

1242
00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:05,040
But the net result is something 
that's universal and you're 

1243
00:57:05,040 --> 00:57:06,920
talking to everybody about it 
and you're making kind of 

1244
00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:09,640
everybody kind of feel the same 
way or ponder the same thing. 

1245
00:57:10,040 --> 00:57:14,600
It is such an important art form
and, and, and you know, I take 

1246
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:16,520
it very, very seriously, despite
the fact that it's in a 

1247
00:57:16,520 --> 00:57:18,920
hilarious art form. 
I, I take it very seriously. 

1248
00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:22,600
I also, and I'm, I'm super 
curious about your, your, your 

1249
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:25,320
viewpoint on the idea. 
I've always said that comics 

1250
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:28,840
stand ups are, are, are the 
number one guardian of free 

1251
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:32,040
speech and, and, and you look at
what it is that you guys do. 

1252
00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:33,440
So what you guys do is very, 
very important. 

1253
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:36,400
What do you think of the idea 
about stand ups being advocates 

1254
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:38,640
for free speech? 
Yeah, because it's the same. 

1255
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:40,920
It's the same idea where people 
don't want to hear the truth 

1256
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:42,840
even though we're lying to 
ourselves every single day. 

1257
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:46,280
But a cartoon can say the truth 
and people are OK with that. 

1258
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:49,200
Like, right now you have all 
this fraud going on in these 

1259
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:52,360
different States and nobody 
wants to hear that all this tax 

1260
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:55,520
money is being stolen. 
But if you used it in a joke, 

1261
00:57:55,800 --> 00:57:58,120
then people are receptive to it.
So absolutely. 

1262
00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:02,640
You even have, you know, you 
have words and verbiage that 

1263
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:05,520
weren't being used before that 
are that are being used now. 

1264
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:07,720
And I just think people figured 
out like it went a little too 

1265
00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:12,000
far. 
Let's bring it back to reality. 

1266
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:15,120
But you know, you you've had 
people that are going into 

1267
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:18,680
comedy places just solely to 
film somebody to try to make a 

1268
00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:21,840
story about it. 
But I do think that the comedy 

1269
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:24,920
places are your kind of last. 
They're like the churches, you 

1270
00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:26,760
know, it's the last place where 
you can actually have free 

1271
00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:28,560
speech. 
And the great thing also is that

1272
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:31,560
when you're a comedian, you can 
say, well, I was joking. 

1273
00:58:31,560 --> 00:58:33,840
It's it's it's comedy. 
I don't really feel that way. 

1274
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:36,960
You know, I don't like like when
I'm talking about my daughter 

1275
00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:41,240
and making a joke about, you 
know, one of my jokes is about 

1276
00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:42,600
her being bullied about her 
epilepsy. 

1277
00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:44,920
And then my response as a father
is, well, you're on your own. 

1278
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:46,960
Like that's it's not real. 
That's a joke. 

1279
00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:49,600
But you could have somebody take
that and be like, oh, he's a 

1280
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:52,080
horrible father because he 
thought he joked about that. 

1281
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:58,480
So in that respect, you know, 
you just got to rewrite your 

1282
00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:02,720
joke. 
But I'm a big believer that in 

1283
00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:05,400
free speech, I think it's 
constantly trying to be 

1284
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:07,680
everybody's trying to take that 
away from everybody because it 

1285
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:09,600
really is the last thing that 
you're not taxed on. 

1286
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:13,920
Oh, I love the way you put that.
It's the last thing that's not 

1287
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:17,400
taxed on. 
I'll tell you this, I don't know

1288
00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:20,160
if you do this or not in your 
ACT, but I'll tell you one of my

1289
00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:22,280
favorite things. 
Shane Gillis is actually very 

1290
00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:26,160
good at this. 
I love when a comic can go up 

1291
00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:29,960
and they can say something and 
you look at the people in the 

1292
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:31,520
audience, they're ready to be 
outraged. 

1293
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:35,120
Like there's a, there's a bit 
that that that Gillis does about

1294
00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:39,080
a family member of his that has 
Down syndrome and, and, and ends

1295
00:59:39,080 --> 00:59:41,240
up using I'm, I'm going to say 
it here just because we like to 

1296
00:59:41,240 --> 00:59:43,240
say PG, I'll just say the R 
word. 

1297
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:45,640
I feel like the R word is one of
those words that's, it's a 

1298
00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:49,400
really it's, it's, it's, it's 
contentious to people. 

1299
00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:52,480
And so I'll be respectful to the
people that are, you know, but 

1300
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:55,040
growing up Gen. 
X or growing up, that was a word

1301
00:59:55,040 --> 00:59:57,680
that was commonplace and it's a 
word that's now since kind of 

1302
00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:01,440
moved over. 
But I love when a comic. 

1303
01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:08,040
When a good stand up can use a 
phrase, a word, a topic that you

1304
01:00:08,040 --> 01:00:10,360
look at the outraged police in 
the audience and they're ready 

1305
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:13,520
to get outraged, but then they 
actually like listen to what was

1306
01:00:13,520 --> 01:00:16,440
said and there's nothing that 
they can get outraged about. 

1307
01:00:16,440 --> 01:00:19,000
It was it was totally an 
appropriate way of that's one of

1308
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:20,640
my favorite things in the entire
world. 

1309
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:24,840
When a comic does that because 
it it, it, it, it, it, it is a 

1310
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:28,520
good commentary on the absurdity
of outrage culture. 

1311
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:32,760
And and it's so fun to do that. 
And they say that when you're a 

1312
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:36,600
comic that has that you're a 
part of something, whatever it 

1313
01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:38,760
might be, whether it's gender, 
whether it's race, whether it's 

1314
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:40,760
orientation, whether it's 
something that's personal in 

1315
01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:44,720
your life, whatever it's free 
game, you can make fun of it 

1316
01:00:44,720 --> 01:00:47,120
because it's about yourself. 
That's one of the things that 

1317
01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:49,480
seems to be one of the 
commonalities that's there. 

1318
01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:51,760
You do have a daughter who's 
gone through stuff. 

1319
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:55,600
You can get material out of it. 
Have you ever been that guy that

1320
01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:58,000
likes to poke the bear a little 
bit about the outrage stuff? 

1321
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:00,000
Or do you stay? 
Do you stay away from that? 

1322
01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:03,520
No, you have to. 
And I just, I equate it to, you 

1323
01:01:04,200 --> 01:01:08,480
know, everybody loves anything 
that has to do with talking to 

1324
01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:10,760
the crowd, right? 
But there's other people that 

1325
01:01:10,760 --> 01:01:12,520
refuse. 
They put up, they don't want to 

1326
01:01:12,520 --> 01:01:13,720
see that 4th wall and they 
don't. 

1327
01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:16,560
They're afraid of the audience. 
If you embrace, if you embrace 

1328
01:01:16,560 --> 01:01:21,640
the audience because they came 
to see you and you just 

1329
01:01:21,640 --> 01:01:23,720
normalize, it's the same thing 
as it took me a long time to 

1330
01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:26,800
realize you have to stare people
in the eyes because then they 

1331
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:28,200
feel like they're a part of your
show. 

1332
01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:30,200
Whereas when I would stare at 
the floor, I would stare at the 

1333
01:01:30,200 --> 01:01:31,720
back. 
You're not connecting with the 

1334
01:01:31,720 --> 01:01:34,640
audience. 
So no matter, I was always 

1335
01:01:34,640 --> 01:01:36,400
thinking like, I'm going to say 
something that's going to offend

1336
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:40,160
somebody and they're not going 
to like that and then they're 

1337
01:01:40,160 --> 01:01:42,280
not going to like me. 
You got to put all that out of 

1338
01:01:42,280 --> 01:01:44,600
the way and you just got that's 
what brings the audience in when

1339
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:46,640
you're looking at them. 
And then no matter what it is 

1340
01:01:46,640 --> 01:01:49,680
that you're talking about, but 
she'll let people, you know, I 

1341
01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:51,720
was afraid of being heckled. 
But that's the greatest gift you

1342
01:01:51,720 --> 01:01:54,280
can have is to be heckled 
because you're the person on 

1343
01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:55,440
stage. 
You're the one that has all the 

1344
01:01:55,440 --> 01:01:57,640
power. 
Most likely that person is 

1345
01:01:57,640 --> 01:01:59,440
drunk. 
They're not the going to be the 

1346
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:02,960
brightest person in the world. 
And when they start telling you 

1347
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:04,800
you're a piece of shit, the 
easiest response for me to, 

1348
01:02:04,800 --> 01:02:06,320
yeah, I know I'm a comedian. 
I'm up here. 

1349
01:02:06,680 --> 01:02:11,280
You think I don't know that? 
So that's one of those things I 

1350
01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:15,160
think maturing as a comedian is 
don't, don't be afraid of the 

1351
01:02:15,160 --> 01:02:16,600
audience. 
There's always going to be 

1352
01:02:16,600 --> 01:02:18,280
something. 
My biggest thing now is you're 

1353
01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:20,120
just having people, they're on 
their phone, they're in the 

1354
01:02:20,120 --> 01:02:23,160
front row on their phone. 
And it's just like, why did you 

1355
01:02:23,160 --> 01:02:25,120
even come here in the 1st place 
if you're going to be on your 

1356
01:02:25,120 --> 01:02:28,200
phone? 
And you just have to that stuff 

1357
01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:32,720
you got to power through. 
But I guess if there's any 

1358
01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:34,960
advice, don't ever be afraid of 
the audience. 

1359
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:37,200
Embrace the audience and 
definitely embrace the silence. 

1360
01:02:37,200 --> 01:02:38,600
You've got to embrace the 
silence. 

1361
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:43,480
And I always look at it like the
they are the clowning is you're 

1362
01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:45,560
silent, you're not talking. 
And if you can embrace that, 

1363
01:02:45,560 --> 01:02:46,680
you're going to go far in 
comedy. 

1364
01:02:46,680 --> 01:02:49,560
You're going to be fine. 
Oh, I appreciate your 

1365
01:02:49,560 --> 01:02:51,040
perspective very, very much on 
that. 

1366
01:02:51,080 --> 01:02:52,200
The idea of the audience. 
Yeah. 

1367
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:55,200
And with the hecklers like it's 
the, it could be the greatest 

1368
01:02:55,200 --> 01:02:57,720
gift because guess what? 
Most of the people in the 

1369
01:02:57,720 --> 01:02:59,920
audience are just as frustrated 
as you are. 

1370
01:02:59,920 --> 01:03:03,040
They may not be as flustered as 
you are being up there, but 

1371
01:03:03,040 --> 01:03:04,440
there there is frustrated, 
right. 

1372
01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:07,240
And it's an opportunity for you 
to bring the audience along with

1373
01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:10,760
you against that person and it 
connect even more. 

1374
01:03:10,920 --> 01:03:13,680
You connect even more with them 
with if you can, if you can 

1375
01:03:13,680 --> 01:03:15,840
bring them over and talk about, 
you know, how that person is 

1376
01:03:15,840 --> 01:03:18,960
frustrating them in a hilarious 
way of some sort or a humorous 

1377
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:21,920
way of some sort. 
I love that you said that I love

1378
01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:24,080
you talk about, you know, 
connecting with the audience the

1379
01:03:24,080 --> 01:03:27,320
way that you do. 
It's it's, and it's neat to 

1380
01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:31,280
watch the subculture of crowd 
work comics that are, you know, 

1381
01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:33,600
you look at rife and how big 
he's getting and some of these 

1382
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:38,400
other some of these other ones 
that are the the that are just 

1383
01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:41,240
absolutely killing it using that
device. 

1384
01:03:41,600 --> 01:03:44,320
And really what they're doing is
they're kind of combining almost

1385
01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:48,280
like a maybe not a Ted talk, but
like an inspirational, like a 

1386
01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:51,800
motivational speaker type type 
situation with comedy at the 

1387
01:03:51,800 --> 01:03:55,320
same time, because the audience 
is such a part of it, It seems 

1388
01:03:55,320 --> 01:03:59,520
like a natural progression. 
It's interesting that we live in

1389
01:03:59,520 --> 01:04:01,160
the time and place that we live 
right now. 

1390
01:04:03,040 --> 01:04:04,840
Are there any, is there anybody 
out there that you like right 

1391
01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:07,360
now? 
That's, that's, that's killing 

1392
01:04:07,360 --> 01:04:08,600
it? 
Is there anybody out there in, 

1393
01:04:08,600 --> 01:04:12,680
in, in comedy that that that you
appreciate and, and and and 

1394
01:04:12,680 --> 01:04:15,800
helps motivate you to want to 
write better or do more? 

1395
01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:18,640
I, I always blink when somebody 
asks you this question. 

1396
01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:21,880
And I, I just, I always root for
everybody. 

1397
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:25,400
And I, I say that because 
there's, there is so much 

1398
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:27,280
negativity and people go, I 
don't think that guy's funny. 

1399
01:04:27,280 --> 01:04:29,920
And just the courage to get up 
on stage is enough for me. 

1400
01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:32,360
And I don't care who it is. 
You know, like last night there 

1401
01:04:32,360 --> 01:04:37,360
was a girl, she comes from 
China, came here to be in or to 

1402
01:04:37,360 --> 01:04:39,400
be in East Hollywood doing 
comedy. 

1403
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:41,200
That's I wouldn't go to China 
and do comedy. 

1404
01:04:41,240 --> 01:04:43,760
I'd be afraid to do it. 
So if anybody can get up on 

1405
01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:46,120
stage, those are, those are my 
heroes and those are the people 

1406
01:04:46,120 --> 01:04:49,320
that always impressed me. 
And then the ones who finally 

1407
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:55,040
after so long end up, you know, 
getting a show or, you know, get

1408
01:04:55,040 --> 01:04:57,960
their hour, I, I'm always 
impressed by that because it 

1409
01:04:57,960 --> 01:05:00,920
was, it was hard work. 
They did that for a long, long 

1410
01:05:00,920 --> 01:05:03,880
time. 
So fun to be proud of these 

1411
01:05:03,880 --> 01:05:06,480
people. 
And, and it's I, I love that you

1412
01:05:06,480 --> 01:05:09,400
say that because again, I've met
people and again, you meet all 

1413
01:05:09,400 --> 01:05:11,040
sorts of different shapes and 
sizes, right? 

1414
01:05:11,040 --> 01:05:14,080
But, but, but you, you meet 
people who, if somebody gets 

1415
01:05:14,080 --> 01:05:16,920
featured to open up for 
somebody, say, you know, say 

1416
01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:19,600
somebody big is coming in. 
Like Marc Maron came to 

1417
01:05:19,600 --> 01:05:21,840
Vancouver not that long ago. 
And A and a, and a friend of 

1418
01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:25,360
mine who's been doing stand up 
for about 8 months got a chance 

1419
01:05:25,360 --> 01:05:28,040
to open for his set for, for 
from Aaron's set. 

1420
01:05:28,040 --> 01:05:29,160
He was one of two or three 
openers. 

1421
01:05:29,320 --> 01:05:31,920
Yeah. 
And I mean, I saw local people 

1422
01:05:31,920 --> 01:05:33,720
who were like, it's like they're
eating, they're young. 

1423
01:05:33,720 --> 01:05:35,800
They're like, they were so mad. 
You know, I've been doing this 

1424
01:05:35,800 --> 01:05:38,400
five years and I haven't had a 
chat, you know, why is that my 

1425
01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:40,040
spot? 
And, and, and there's jealousy 

1426
01:05:40,040 --> 01:05:42,480
and backbiting and all that. 
I love that you mentioned that 

1427
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:45,520
because it's so fun to be proud 
of those people that, that, 

1428
01:05:45,520 --> 01:05:47,440
that, that, that, that get the 
opportunity and nail the 

1429
01:05:47,440 --> 01:05:49,360
opportunity. 
The other thing about it too, as

1430
01:05:49,360 --> 01:05:53,360
he killed it, he killed it and, 
and, and Marin, you know, he 

1431
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:56,400
shouted him out, right? 
There's a local comedian named 

1432
01:05:56,440 --> 01:05:59,960
Ian or local, a Canadian named 
Ian Bag, who again, he talked 

1433
01:05:59,960 --> 01:06:01,760
about crowd work. 
He's one of the best crowd work 

1434
01:06:01,760 --> 01:06:04,840
comics I've ever seen. 
Like I, I personally prefer him 

1435
01:06:04,840 --> 01:06:07,240
to rife, you know, I, I think 
he's, he's just so good. 

1436
01:06:07,560 --> 01:06:10,720
He's just got this real Canadian
persona about him that I think 

1437
01:06:10,720 --> 01:06:13,520
is just delightful. 
You know, he opened up for 

1438
01:06:13,520 --> 01:06:17,400
Kreischer and, and, and it's 
just so cool to see these people

1439
01:06:17,400 --> 01:06:19,760
kind of move up and, and get 
these opportunities and get 

1440
01:06:19,760 --> 01:06:22,920
their unique voice out there. 
And it's good to celebrate that.

1441
01:06:22,920 --> 01:06:26,120
I love that you said that 
because not everybody does that.

1442
01:06:26,480 --> 01:06:30,040
And it's cool that you're you're
you're one of those guys and 

1443
01:06:30,040 --> 01:06:32,640
that you do appreciate whether 
there's a big guy or the small 

1444
01:06:32,640 --> 01:06:35,040
person that's just starting out.
It's cool that you appreciate 

1445
01:06:35,040 --> 01:06:37,600
that. 
I, like I said, you know this, 

1446
01:06:37,600 --> 01:06:39,360
you've done enough of these 
where you know that time gets 

1447
01:06:39,360 --> 01:06:43,120
really, really slippery when we 
start podcasting, that I 

1448
01:06:43,120 --> 01:06:45,080
appreciate your time being here 
today. 

1449
01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:48,880
And like you like, well, I think
you could probably tell, I could

1450
01:06:48,880 --> 01:06:50,320
go real deep. 
We could talk about comedy the 

1451
01:06:50,320 --> 01:06:52,360
entire time. 
But I'm really grateful that you

1452
01:06:52,720 --> 01:06:57,560
have this depth of character and
for people who love your work, I

1453
01:06:57,560 --> 01:07:00,160
love this being an opportunity 
that people can kind of see the 

1454
01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:02,960
other side or the the depths 
that you have, the layers that 

1455
01:07:02,960 --> 01:07:04,080
you have. 
I think it's cool. 

1456
01:07:04,080 --> 01:07:06,480
I appreciate you, you you being 
so vulnerable and talking about 

1457
01:07:06,480 --> 01:07:10,200
that. 
If people want to find you, Mike

1458
01:07:10,200 --> 01:07:12,480
Knox comedy is kind of the place
to look, right? 

1459
01:07:12,480 --> 01:07:14,640
Is is there is there? 
Do you have a social media 

1460
01:07:14,640 --> 01:07:16,480
presence? 
Do you have a a website? 

1461
01:07:16,600 --> 01:07:18,320
You were podcasting at one 
point, right? 

1462
01:07:18,600 --> 01:07:20,280
I was. 
I think as you know, it just 

1463
01:07:20,400 --> 01:07:22,040
gets exhausting and then you 
kind of forget about it. 

1464
01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:26,640
But I I want to do it again. 
I want to do it again, but yeah,

1465
01:07:26,640 --> 01:07:29,040
on Instagram and TikTok I'm 
always on there and that's at 

1466
01:07:29,080 --> 01:07:32,840
Mike Knox Comedy and I kind of 
have 1/2 ass website at 

1467
01:07:32,840 --> 01:07:35,040
mikeknox.com, but I'm 
definitely. 

1468
01:07:35,160 --> 01:07:36,280
OK. 
And if people want to book you, 

1469
01:07:36,280 --> 01:07:37,720
is that where they book you? 
They book you through the 

1470
01:07:37,720 --> 01:07:38,200
website? 
Yep. 

1471
01:07:38,440 --> 01:07:41,000
Yep, OK, through Mike Knox 
comedy. 

1472
01:07:41,000 --> 01:07:44,360
OK, that's awesome. 
Like seriously, from the bottom 

1473
01:07:44,360 --> 01:07:47,880
of my heart, this has been an 
absolute delight for me for a 

1474
01:07:47,880 --> 01:07:50,600
variety of reasons. 
But but number one, of course, 

1475
01:07:50,760 --> 01:07:53,680
you know, trying to trying to 
get the he changed it movement 

1476
01:07:53,680 --> 01:07:56,200
moving here for folks who 
haven't downloaded the app, by 

1477
01:07:56,200 --> 01:07:57,240
the way, what are you waiting 
for? 

1478
01:07:57,440 --> 01:07:59,320
Go to hechangedit.com for all 
the information. 

1479
01:07:59,680 --> 01:08:03,280
And you know, we want to be a 
place where guys can go and they

1480
01:08:03,280 --> 01:08:04,280
can take something that they 
need. 

1481
01:08:04,280 --> 01:08:06,640
They can leave something that 
they know they could hear these 

1482
01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:09,040
different perspectives and these
different stories. 

1483
01:08:09,520 --> 01:08:12,320
So you're not living quiet lives
of desperation. 

1484
01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:15,520
So you're not in that place in 
solitude and and and Mike, 

1485
01:08:15,520 --> 01:08:17,399
you're doing that in a variety 
of ways. 

1486
01:08:17,399 --> 01:08:19,600
I just want to say thank you so 
much for taking time out of your

1487
01:08:19,600 --> 01:08:21,960
busy schedule to be here on he 
cast today No. 

1488
01:08:22,040 --> 01:08:22,840
I appreciate it. 
Thank you. 

1489
01:08:23,600 --> 01:08:26,560
Thanks for having me. 
Oh, absolutely. 

1490
01:08:27,760 --> 01:08:29,640
I say it every time. 
This is why we do the show. 

1491
01:08:29,640 --> 01:08:32,080
It's conversations exactly like 
this as to why we do the show. 

1492
01:08:32,080 --> 01:08:34,479
Is, is, is, you know, if you're 
out there and you're hearing 

1493
01:08:34,479 --> 01:08:37,240
this and you want to go and, 
and, and change something in 

1494
01:08:37,240 --> 01:08:41,720
your life, you know, proof 
positive that not only is it 

1495
01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:45,080
possible, but you're going to 
end up being better for it. 

1496
01:08:45,200 --> 01:08:49,000
And and you know, you know, stop
living that like quiet life of 

1497
01:08:49,000 --> 01:08:50,640
desperation start moving 
forward. 

1498
01:08:50,840 --> 01:08:54,000
This has been another episode of
he cast the official podcast of 

1499
01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:55,880
he changed it. 
My name is Mike Chisholm. 

1500
01:08:56,359 --> 01:08:57,200
Go change something.