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Welcome to hecast, the official 
podcast of he changed it. 

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As always, I am Mike Chisholm. 
As always, I am so excited to 

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have conversations with 
different people in the world to

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talk around the subject of a 
men's mental Wellness. 

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My word today our our guest is 
Sean Martin. 

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He is not just the lead singer 
of the band the quarantined. 

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He's the mastermind behind the 
whole project and, and my it is 

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such a cool band. 
I grew up listening to bands 

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like Rage Against the Machine, 
Alice In Chains, you know, 

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Disturbed and, and different 
bands. 

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This, this band here is along 
those veins, clearly influenced 

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by some of that and many, many 
others. 

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But Sean is the driving force 
and, and going through his 

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story, talking about his life, 
you know, losing his father 

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early, his life in the military.
He tells a story of when he was 

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involved in the American 
military that I just was blown 

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away by. 
And to my knowledge, the first 

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time he's ever told this story 
about something that happened to

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him when he was in in Iraq. 
And just a very, very powerful, 

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powerful story getting out of 
the military, you know, 20 years

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of therapy. 
But with him the entire time is 

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music. 
And this episode talks a lot 

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about creativity and how many 
men have this creative thing 

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inside of them and, and, and, 
and, and, and a passion, 

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whatever the passion might be 
and how it can really save 

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lives. 
They can save their own life. 

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It really can. 
And, and, and the band is really

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good. 
We talk a lot about music as 

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well. 
I really enjoyed this 

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conversation a lot. 
I think you will too. 

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If you haven't downloaded the he
changed app, What the heck are 

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you waiting for? 
Go to hechangedit.com and you 

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can find all the information 
about how he how he changed. 

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It is trying to be a force for 
change in the world, making the 

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world a better place. 
If, if every man's mental 

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Wellness was in a better spot 
than it is right now, what would

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that do to the world? 
That is exactly what we're we're

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trying to do. 
Please enjoy my conversation 

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with Sean Martin. 
All right, Sean, I'm stoked 

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about this one. 
I love every every conversation 

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that I have. 
It's it's such a blessing to be 

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able to host he cast. 
But I'm a huge music fan, like a

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massive music fan, and anytime I
get somebody in the musical 

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world on here at any level, it's
just it's it's one of those 

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things that I always take 
special pleasure in. 

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There's something about music 
where we can music is 

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therapeutic as as I believe that
you are, have certainly gone 

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down that pathway. 
Music is magic. 

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It's healing, It's it's it's 
communal. 

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It's such a beautiful thing. 
So I'm so excited to have you 

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here. 
Welcome to HE Cash, Shawn 

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Martin. 
Thank you so much for having me.

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It's great to be here. 
I wanna get into the, the 

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quarantine and, and, and all of 
the everything about what has 

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LED up to that. 
And that's what we're gonna do. 

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We're gonna lead up to this. 
I, I'm super curious. 

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Where did you grow up? 
And you know, the pathway that 

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led you to starting this project
is a very cool 1, and I want to 

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get into that. 
But let's go back to your youth.

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Was there a part of you before 
the military, before any of that

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stuff? 
Was there a part of you that 

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always knew that you were going 
to move in the direction of 

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music? 
Yeah, actually it, it was like, 

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so my, my dad died when I was 
four years old and from cancer. 

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And so that left a huge, big 
open gap that my mom decided to 

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fill with community choir. 
And it ended up being a really 

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fantastic choice because it put 
me on the path of loving music 

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and and also finding that I had 
a real place in it because I was

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a little kid who would do the 
solos, you know, for like the 

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end, at the end of the, because 
we would do contemporary songs. 

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So we would do like, yeah, you 
know, Bryan Adams and and 

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Richard Marx and shit like that,
you know, so like the, the real 

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heart heart, you know, the 
heartfelt stuff and have a whole

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choir singing. 
It was the, the the director at 

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the time was, was very 
avant-garde for the, for the 

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day, we'll say. 
OK, so I got to ask, was it a 

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faith-based thing or just a 
community based thing? 

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Where contemporary was it? 
Or was it a little bit of both? 

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No, it was, it was a community 
based thing. 

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Community based thing, Yeah, it 
was. 

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It was very much secular and 
very much about, you know, 

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trying to use, you know, 
children to help heal the world 

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was definitely one of the like 
we would have T-shirts with like

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AI remember AT shirt with a big 
world and a Band-Aid over the 

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top of it. 
You know, like that's so they 

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were, they were trying to 
connect that. 

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Is the choir still around? 
I think so. 

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I think Mendocino Children's 
Community Choir is still is 

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still going. 
If it's not, it should. 

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It absolutely should. 
Where? 

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OK, so where? 
Where in the world was this? 

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So this was in Fort Bragg, CA 
and Mendicino, California over 

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on the on the West Coast about 
four hours north of San 

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Francisco. 
You know, it, it's right on the 

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coast. 
You got miles of beautiful 

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coastline. 
You know, that's nothing else is

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really like in the world. 
Oregon is a little bit 

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different, but further South 
than that. 

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It just doesn't look like that 
anymore. 

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So it, it's, you know, around 
the redwoods, I would go run 

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around and like, you know, play,
you know, Cowboys and Indians 

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out in the, in the redwoods and 
building forts and like, that's,

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that's what I would do as a kid.
Think Endor from Return of the 

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Jedi is is really what you're. 
Yeah, we, we killed many at Ewok

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out there. 
Many, many. 

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Yeah, just just to, you know, 
get on the wrong side of 

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history. 
It's funny, you know, like my 

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wife and I will watch America's 
Got Talent and, and over the 

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years watching that show, you 
have seen more and more choirs 

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show up both both on the 
faith-based side, inner city 

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secular, like Utah community 
projects. 

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There is a power in, in, in, 
yes, children, of course, but 

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also adults. 
Like there's a power in the idea

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of, of, of, of, of music being 
distributed through a choir. 

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And, and when you're a kid and 
especially going through 

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something that you went through,
I can see how that would have 

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been like. 
I, I, I, you know, opened this 

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by saying how music is 
therapeutic and it's, it's 

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healing. 
It must have been both for you 

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going through what you went 
through at that young age. 

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Yeah. 
And, you know, frankly, I didn't

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even know, you know, like at 
that time, you have no idea that

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the things that are really 
affecting you, but your parents 

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do. 
And I'm very thankful that that 

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my mom was very keenly aware 
that, you know, giving a 

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creative outlet to, to a kid 
like me who's the youngest of 

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three and needs to have 
something that isn't destructive

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because it's probably going to 
get destructive if you don't. 

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And I, I think that she was 
aware of, of that not, you know,

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and because she's, she was 
definitely the, a faith-based 

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woman and was very much, you 
know, in into the church, but at

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the same time understood the, 
the value of things. 

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She, she, like, there was some 
restriction. 

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Like she didn't want me to 
listen to like Eminem and stuff.

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But there wasn't like, you know,
there wasn't a, a section of, of

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secular music and with like, you
know, classical music or, or 

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secular, secular art or, or 
things like that that she didn't

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want me to see. 
Like she wanted me to be aware 

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of the classics. 
She wanted me to know about, you

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know, Chubby Checker and the Big
Bopper and, you know, Fats 

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Domino and, you know, Chuck 
Berry and Jerry Lee Lewis. 

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She wanted me to know about all 
of those because she would play 

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them on the on, on music all the
time. 

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Be like you like this, Sean, 
This is, this is fun. 

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This is for my era, you know, so
like that, that was something 

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that would happen all the time. 
And she would also turn on 

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Vivaldi and Bach and Beethoven 
and be like, pay attention, 

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Sean. 
These, these are really cool 

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things. 
These these last longer than 

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regular songs. 
You're never going to believe 

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this, you know? 
So like, that was the kind of 

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introduction and, and 
environment that she helped 

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create. 
That was one of exploring music 

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and really paying attention to 
it. 

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Did so? 
You said you had siblings. 

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Yes, all creative. 
Or were you the only one that 

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was that was just creative 
out-of-the-box? 

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Well, in, in their, in their 
younger ages, they, they were 

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all creative, but in the end, 
you know, they, they ended up 

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taking different career paths. 
They, they weren't able to, to 

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turn into a career, but they're,
they're, you know, my, my middle

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brother was very much a singer 
and very much into music and my 

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oldest one as well. 
In fact, it's, it's still talked

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about to this day, I'm pretty 
sure by people at least of that 

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generation. 
But in, we were all in choir all

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the way up until like our our 
junior senior years in high 

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school. 
And yeah. 

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And so, you know, we would, we 
would have fun with the, the 

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choir community. 
You know, we would do different 

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performances. 
Like it turned out that 

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throughout our our tenure, each 
one of us had done some kind of 

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weird, you know, performance 
that that was, you know, kind of

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Tenacious D ish, kind of, you 
know, Weird Al Yankovic kind of 

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making fun of things, you know. 
So for example, my oldest 

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brother did a a real version of 
pretty fly for a white guy with 

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a rock band at a choir concert. 
Yeah. 

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And then me and my. 
And it was, it was great. 

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And like, he even got a weird 
like dancing dude to do the, 

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the, the pretty flag guy. 
He even got one of those. 

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And then me and my middle 
brother, we did a we, we so it 

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was this, it was this choir. 
I forget the, the, the exact 

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word they had for it, but it was
very serious, like everybody was

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doing really, you know, deep 
piano music. 

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And we, we worked that ahead of 
time. 

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Like we set this up so 
perfectly. 

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It was really great because it's
one of those one of those shows 

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where it was, you know, all red,
you know, maroon, long flowing 

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like curtains and everything 
was, was very, you know, 

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intimate and candle lit and, 
and, you know, very, very cool. 

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And we come in with weird ass 
costumes. 

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Like I, I was in a, a jersey 
with batting gloves and a felt 

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vest and leather pants. 
And we had someone dressed up as

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Superman with a snorkel. 
We had like, we had just weird, 

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just out of control costumes 
that were just super weird. 

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Like we had a dude who was ready
to go to the beach with like a 

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rubber ducky thing around his, 
his waist. 

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Like it was absolutely insane. 
And we did. 

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We did It's Going to Be Me by 
the Backstreet Boys. 

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It was so perfect. 
So different characters coming 

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in that were just outrageous 
outside the box. 

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Yeah. 
Oh, that's fantastic. 

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So, so there's guys that are 
listening to this right now who 

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either they themselves or maybe 
they, their, their fathers and 

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they got they, they got kids 
like, and I, I can't, I 

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personally can't overemphasize 
the, the impact of if you're a 

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creative, if you've got 
something inside you, whatever 

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it is, we live in a society 
right now that that many times, 

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you know, these types of 
projects and programs are 

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underfunded. 
They're not necessarily, you 

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know, promoted, depending on 
where you're from, like, like, 

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like your mom. 
I think prolific in, in, in 

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making sure that that the kids 
had something where if that 

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creative part was inside them, 
at least it was going to come 

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out somehow. 
And I'm seeing that more and 

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more these days that people are 
not exercising that muscle 

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nearly as much. 
And, and I think you could 

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probably speak to that as the 
importance of, of, of making 

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sure kids or even us, you know, 
old kids. 

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I certainly am one of those, you
know, that my, my inner child, 

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I, I allow him to, to be, you 
know, have his grubby hands on 

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the steering wheel as much as I 
possibly can. 

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The importance of creativity, I 
can already tell. 

223
00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:06,240
And I mean, you got into some, 
you got into some more serious 

224
00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:10,520
places in life, but the creative
venue, how, how important is it 

225
00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:15,960
that men at least face the idea 
that they might have a creative 

226
00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:18,040
inside them that needs to get 
out of them? 

227
00:12:18,560 --> 00:12:22,040
Oh, it's it's absolutely 
paramount important it it's it's

228
00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:24,560
opening up an entire different 
section of your brain. 

229
00:12:24,680 --> 00:12:30,840
Literally there's a right side 
and there's a left side and when

230
00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:35,840
you combined the 2 is when you 
finally come into that, you 

231
00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:38,080
know, you start feeling like 
Bradley Cooper had a limit 

232
00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:41,560
limitless is it starts feeling 
like, wow, I'm using 100% of 

233
00:12:41,560 --> 00:12:45,160
this because you just real you 
were able to put together. 

234
00:12:45,560 --> 00:12:48,960
For example, singing and playing
guitar doesn't come naturally to

235
00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:50,920
everybody. 
It didn't come naturally to me. 

236
00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:54,600
I had to learn how to do both 
independently and then mix the 

237
00:12:54,600 --> 00:13:00,280
two and what I do instead of 
constantly wearing myself out by

238
00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:02,560
playing guitar all the time 
because it takes a toll. 

239
00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:07,680
You can do other things with 
your mind to exercise the exact 

240
00:13:07,680 --> 00:13:11,640
same parts of your brain that 
are used in playing guitar. 

241
00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:14,080
It's so it's the same thing as 
like rubbing your belly and 

242
00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:16,000
patting your head at the same 
time, right? 

243
00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:20,200
But what I do is, for example, 
I'll listen to podcasts while 

244
00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:22,920
I'm playing video games and pay 
and turn down the volume on the 

245
00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:25,520
video games so that I'm just 
doing the rote mechanical thing.

246
00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:29,000
But I'm still I'm listening and 
I'm still actively engaged. 

247
00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:32,360
So that way my mind is still 
going in multiple places at once

248
00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:34,880
and my hands are doing one thing
and my brain is doing another. 

249
00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:40,120
So that way it connects the the 
same, the same, you know, 

250
00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:45,200
techniques that you need to do 
playing guitar and singing at a 

251
00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:47,120
high level. 
OK. 

252
00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:49,920
And, and, and you do both, you 
know, any I've got. 

253
00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:51,840
I, I can't wait till we get to 
the part of the conversation 

254
00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:54,000
where we talk about influences 
and things like that, because I 

255
00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,920
hear so many influences when I 
listen to the quarantined. 

256
00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:01,320
I, I, I so many different 
influences that, you know, I'm, 

257
00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:04,360
I'm older than you are. 
I, I'm, I'm just turned 50 not 

258
00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:05,720
that long ago. 
But it like right in the heart 

259
00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:07,600
of Gen. 
XI was there in the heart of 

260
00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:10,480
when, you know, grunge and, and 
like Alice In Chains and some of

261
00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:14,360
these other bands, you know, 
came up and, and, and listening 

262
00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:18,960
to your stuff. 
It's like, whoa, it's, it's, 

263
00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:22,640
it's funny because it's, it's 
current as all get out, but 

264
00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:26,160
nostalgic as all get out, which 
kind of, you know, fights its 

265
00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:28,640
way into my brains at certain 
parts of different, different 

266
00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:30,600
songs. 
You talk about shredding on a 

267
00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:34,120
guitar. 
At what point did you in life 

268
00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:37,000
start playing the guitar? 
Because you are phenomenal at 

269
00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,200
it. 
I'm just curious as to as to 

270
00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:41,400
when you started exercising that
part. 

271
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,320
Oh, thank you. 
I, I started playing when I was 

272
00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:46,200
12. 
It was, it was right. 

273
00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:51,440
It was right after, you know, 
my, my mom had it set me up to 

274
00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:53,240
'cause I told her I wanted to 
learn an instrument. 

275
00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:56,920
She gave me piano and sent me to
the, the, the choir piano 

276
00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:58,880
teacher. 
And so she's teaching me. 

277
00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:01,560
Jesus loves me and you know, 
Greensleeves and I'm like, this 

278
00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:03,120
is the most boring thing in the 
world. 

279
00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:04,960
What the hell is the matter with
you? 

280
00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,880
And then finally I saved up 
enough to get a guitar and I 

281
00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:09,880
start and the first song that I 
learned how to play was Green 

282
00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:13,120
daytime of your life. 
And my, my brother came in and 

283
00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:16,280
was like, wait, you're actually 
playing that? 

284
00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:18,360
That wasn't on the radio. 
What the hell? 

285
00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:20,720
Like, he was genuinely freaked 
out. 

286
00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:24,640
Like looking at me like I like I
had an alien head, you know, and

287
00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,280
so there. 
And so from then I, I just gave 

288
00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:32,480
it a, a dedicated motivation to 
learning everything that I could

289
00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,360
and not refusing anything that 
was there. 

290
00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:39,840
And where did the dedication 
come from? 

291
00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:43,720
Because you know, I mean, you, 
you certainly saw the edge of 

292
00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:45,360
it. 
But now we live in a place, a 

293
00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:47,800
time and place where people want
things so instantly. 

294
00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:50,840
And, and I, you know, that was 
around you as well at that time.

295
00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:53,640
Was it 1/2 hour a day? 
And you just knew, you know, 

296
00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:55,480
we'll just, we'll just get there
eventually. 

297
00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:58,680
Was it just the, the, the 
passion of it that they didn't 

298
00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:00,480
say, I just don't want to stop 
doing this. 

299
00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:03,040
Where did the dedication come 
from to learning? 

300
00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:08,560
It, it was a passion once, once 
I figured out how like that the 

301
00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:15,800
expression of it was, you know, 
not only feeding me, but, but 

302
00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:23,680
making me into a more, just a 
better person. 

303
00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,200
Like not just for myself, but 
for other people too. 

304
00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:30,960
Once I realized that, that once 
I was done playing guitar, I was

305
00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:35,320
a much nicer person, that I, I 
was very much more in tune to 

306
00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:38,800
other people's, you know, what 
they were talking about or what 

307
00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:41,720
I wasn't just always locked in 
my head and thinking about, you 

308
00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,880
know, the different, you know, 
different other terrible aspects

309
00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:48,840
of what was going on. 
I was able to to focus on what 

310
00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:52,200
was there and be present. 
And that that was such a key 

311
00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:55,760
thing to learn at a young age 
because I was also learning how 

312
00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:59,360
to be a preacher. 
So there was definitely an 

313
00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:03,120
aspect and a need to make sure 
that what I was saying was 

314
00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,560
actually resonating with people,
you know, and not just speaking 

315
00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:13,280
for the sake of speaking. 
So, but, but besides that, you 

316
00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:17,440
know, it was, it was absolutely 
a, a passion. 

317
00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:20,000
Like I would sit down and play 
for like 4 hours at a time, you 

318
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:24,119
know, I, I literally would play 
until my fingers bled and that, 

319
00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:27,079
that was a very consistent thing
for me just because I couldn't 

320
00:17:27,079 --> 00:17:28,800
stop. 
Eventually, like, the 

321
00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:33,080
emotionality of it became kind 
of, you know, at least for a 

322
00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:37,680
young person, something to be 
addicted to, you know, And I 

323
00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:39,920
think if there's anything to be 
addicted to, it's not too bad of

324
00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:41,920
a choice. 
Well, and we talked about, you 

325
00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:43,800
know, we talked about this 
before and people who have 

326
00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,920
addictive personalities, really 
at the end of the day, if you 

327
00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:49,440
don't pick a poison, if you pick
something else other than that, 

328
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:51,200
you pick something that's 
positive. 

329
00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:52,760
You pick something that, that, 
that, that, that, that, that 

330
00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:55,400
you're learning a skill or 
you're, or, or you're making the

331
00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:56,720
world a better place, whatever 
that is. 

332
00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,560
And that is, is. 
But you said the key earlier, 

333
00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:01,880
like passion. 
And I, you know, I'm like you. 

334
00:18:02,120 --> 00:18:04,840
I've been very passionate about 
the things that I get into. 

335
00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:07,320
Whenever I get into something, I
get into it wholeheartedly. 

336
00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:09,040
Have been like that since I was 
a boy. 

337
00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:13,400
And the more and more I age and 
the more I look around and 

338
00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:15,840
especially since hosting the 
show and, and seeing what he 

339
00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:18,760
changed, it is trying to do. 
And then, then the, the, the, 

340
00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:22,320
the, the shortfalls that, that, 
that the team changed, the team 

341
00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:24,320
is trying to help overcome in 
the world. 

342
00:18:25,360 --> 00:18:30,840
There's a lot of guys out there 
who have never found what 

343
00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:34,160
they're passionate about. 
They've never like gone on a 

344
00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:36,640
journey to do it. 
And the ones who have who 

345
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:38,680
realize they're passionate about
something, but I maybe set it 

346
00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:42,280
aside because of the norms of 
what we're supposed to be doing.

347
00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:44,000
And they and they, they focus on
that instead. 

348
00:18:45,120 --> 00:18:47,480
You know, those, those guys can 
be lucky too, because when, 

349
00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:50,080
when, when the water starts 
coming over the over the bow, 

350
00:18:51,120 --> 00:18:53,360
that's something that they can 
go back to and they can, it 

351
00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:55,880
becomes a superpower. 
But there's so many guys out 

352
00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:57,800
there who don't even know what 
their passion is. 

353
00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:01,160
Sounds like music is the one 
that that that hit you early on.

354
00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,320
You knew what it was early on. 
Thank goodness for that. 

355
00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:05,400
Thank God for that. 
That's that's an amazing thing. 

356
00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:07,960
Do you have other passions as 
well? 

357
00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:15,440
Yeah, I, I mean, not, not as not
as deeply as music because like 

358
00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:19,040
I can get into the different 
aspects of, of music and get 

359
00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:20,640
into the music business side of 
it. 

360
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:24,120
And even as boring as scheduling
posts and talking about 

361
00:19:24,120 --> 00:19:26,640
contracts and all that stuff 
really is for me. 

362
00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:30,160
It like when it when it's your 
ass, yeah, it matters. 

363
00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:32,480
You know, it's so you better pay
attention. 

364
00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:34,320
And so in the end, there's, 
there's a lot of things like 

365
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:39,280
that to where, you know, I've 
kind of integrated my life into 

366
00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:45,760
it, but I so in, in that way, I 
have to maintain discipline to 

367
00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:49,280
not let my emotions override my 
logical brain. 

368
00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:54,960
And that, that is something that
as a creative can happen. 

369
00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:57,960
Because when your hopes and 
dreams are on the line, you want

370
00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:01,840
to hope that the best case 
scenario is going to happen, but

371
00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:05,160
your hope is not going to make 
you plan for the worst case 

372
00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:07,880
scenario, which is what you 
actually need to do. 

373
00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:14,080
So there's, there's a very 
important balance to be had when

374
00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:20,160
you're when you're making a 
passion become a job is, is to 

375
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:23,760
separate those things and or at 
least have someone who can check

376
00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:25,720
you. 
Because if you can't check your 

377
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:28,280
own ego, you better find 
somebody else who will and you 

378
00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:29,520
better be able to listen to 
them. 

379
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:31,200
And if you can't, you'll fucked 
man. 

380
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:33,320
You'll fucked and you better. 
Figure it out. 

381
00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:35,120
I'm glad. 
Yeah, I'm glad you're saying 

382
00:20:35,120 --> 00:20:37,280
this here because I mean, at the
end of the day, like I believe 

383
00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:38,840
in that. 
I think it's a Chinese proverb 

384
00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,040
that says if you can monetize 
your passion, you'll never work 

385
00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:44,640
a day in your life. 
Creatives have such a hard time 

386
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:46,480
with that. 
Like the idea of merging 

387
00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:50,960
creative or art with commerce. 
That is a very, that's a, that's

388
00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:53,200
a, that's a very, very hard 
tightrope to walk. 

389
00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:57,080
And, you know, you know, there's
one thing about, you know, 

390
00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:58,720
getting it out there by, you 
know, playing guitar and 

391
00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,160
learning to play guitars, 
singing art, whatever it might 

392
00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:04,120
be, you know, whether it's a 
visual art or, or whatever it 

393
00:21:04,120 --> 00:21:05,320
might be. 
For me, it's podcasting. 

394
00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:08,000
I mean, I discovered podcasting,
you know, later in life. 

395
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,240
And it's like, Oh my goodness, 
this is the thing that I have 

396
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:12,160
been searching for my whole 
life. 

397
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:13,560
And you get into that flow 
state. 

398
00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:15,680
And like we were talking about 
before the camera turned on, you

399
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,240
know, like you say, you play 4 
hours and you don't even realize

400
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,120
that it's, it's a time warp. 
You get lost in it and it's such

401
00:21:21,120 --> 00:21:24,360
a beautiful thing, but I got to 
put food on the table too. 

402
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:27,280
And how do I do that And how can
I integrate the two? 

403
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:29,600
If are there ways that I can 
integrate the two into each 

404
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:31,120
other? 
Well, there are, you know, and, 

405
00:21:31,120 --> 00:21:33,960
and you know, it's through an 
open mind and, and, and 

406
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:37,320
realizing what those things, how
you can combine them now for 

407
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:40,760
you, it's like, OK, I want to 
look at the music business and 

408
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,920
my goodness, you came in at a 
time when the entire music 

409
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:47,440
business was shifting beyond. 
I mean, there's never been a 

410
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:49,080
better time for independent 
artists. 

411
00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:51,920
But at the same time, there's 
also been, never been a harder 

412
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:55,160
time for independent artists. 
And it's such a, it's such a 

413
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:57,160
crazy, crazy thing. 
Have you always been in 

414
00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,080
California and, and did you 
stay, did you stay in the 

415
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,240
northern part as you started 
building this? 

416
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,440
Or like, let's talk about let's 
talk about the flow of what led 

417
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,800
to the quarantines. 
Now we've done a good job 

418
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:09,640
talking about the base. 
Let's talk about what you did 

419
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:10,840
next. 
I want to talk about the 

420
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,880
military like what came first, 
what what happened next? 

421
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:20,600
So yeah, the so after I, after I
graduated high school, I joined 

422
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:24,760
the military and I joined in the
18X program, which sounds like 

423
00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:26,880
it's, you know, it's something I
had X-Men, but it's not, it's 

424
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,240
just the fast track into special
forces. 

425
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:35,680
You have to go through infantry 
based training and than airborne

426
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,160
school and then you get a choice
on whether you want to go to a 

427
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:43,360
unit to deploy to Iraq or 
whether you want to go directly 

428
00:22:43,360 --> 00:22:49,280
to the special forces training. 
My dog is is bugging me, I'm 

429
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:51,320
sorry. 
How old's your daughter? 

430
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:53,360
Oh, dog, dog. 
I'm sorry, not dog. 

431
00:22:53,360 --> 00:22:54,240
Oh. 
Your dog, I was interested. 

432
00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:56,520
Your daughter. 
OK, What did mom say when you 

433
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:58,000
joined the military? 
I'm super curious about the 

434
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:05,000
motivation and what Mom said. 
She, you know, it was a really 

435
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:11,520
rough time at that point. 
My, I was kind of like on the 

436
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:19,960
outs with my parents there. 
There was a, a lot of, of what's

437
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:25,160
the word, there was a lot of, 
of, of breaks in, in our 

438
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:29,240
understanding of each other. 
You know, I, I had, I had turned

439
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,560
into an atheist and they were 
extremely religious and there 

440
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:35,800
was a lot of tension around 
that. 

441
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:41,640
I wanted to, you know, at the 
time I was trying to figure out 

442
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:43,720
what I wanted to do with my 
life. 

443
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:45,600
And I was, you know, figuring 
out that I was going to work 

444
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,280
service jobs as much as I could 
and then eventually try to move 

445
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,400
up to a slightly bigger city and
then maybe go to college. 

446
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:56,160
And, and when I went to go rent 
a place on my own, that's where 

447
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,360
I left it. 
And I didn't really talk to them

448
00:23:59,360 --> 00:24:01,240
about the choice of going into 
the infantry. 

449
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,360
I said I'm going. 
Wow. 

450
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,320
You know. 
Escapism was rebelling. 

451
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:08,680
Was it both? 
Yeah, kind of, yeah. 

452
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:10,360
I mean, it was kind of, it was 
kind of rebelling. 

453
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:14,600
There was definitely an aspect 
of, you know, I, I was really 

454
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:21,640
starting to be overwhelmed with 
rage, you know, just a, a low 

455
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,920
simmering rage. 
Just that was a general feeling 

456
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,040
about things. 
Because when you see things that

457
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,080
to you don't make any sense and 
then you investigate them and 

458
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,800
they still don't make any sense.
And then you find people in 

459
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:38,840
there who are just wreaking 
havoc on some institution that 

460
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:46,200
you really, really, you know, 
respect and once enjoyed you're 

461
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,360
it kind of makes you go a little
angry. 

462
00:24:49,360 --> 00:24:52,040
Like, why? 
How did this happen? 

463
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,080
And then once you figure out how
it happened, you just like, 

464
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:56,680
well, I need to go beat the shit
out of some people. 

465
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:58,040
Then what? 
Like, what the Hell's the matter

466
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,520
with this? 
And there's, there was a whole 

467
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:04,360
lot of things. 
And for me it was, you know, 

468
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:08,920
mainly I was really super pissed
off at, at racism. 

469
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:13,080
Once I figured out exactly how 
bad America really was with 

470
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:16,800
racism, I was angry at my entire
fucking country at every like, 

471
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:18,680
what the hell is the matter with
you people? 

472
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,280
You know, and what do you mean 
to you people? 

473
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:26,000
But you know, it's and 
eventually it's it was also, 

474
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,960
there was also rage at, at 
personal relationships. 

475
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,600
And you know, I didn't know how 
to deal with it. 

476
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:33,200
All of these different things 
going. 

477
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,160
I didn't know how to mitigate 
these feelings. 

478
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:39,080
I didn't know how to to control 
these things or use them or turn

479
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,920
them into something that fueled 
a passion. 

480
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:48,400
And I could use my my logical 
brain to work out the reasons 

481
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:49,920
why. 
Yeah. 

482
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:56,440
So the military to me, if I'm 
hearing you right, provided a 

483
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,960
whole bunch of what you needed. 
I mean, you talk about 

484
00:25:59,960 --> 00:26:01,320
structure, you talk about 
discipline. 

485
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:03,600
Of course. 
I mean, those are, you know, if 

486
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:05,640
you don't have those, you're not
going to last very long. 

487
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:10,200
You need, you need those, but 
then also outlet and, and I 

488
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:14,240
mean, I, I assume even basic, 
going through basic and I mean 

489
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:15,880
you're fast track to, you know, 
you wanted to look at the 

490
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:16,920
special forces, that sort of 
thing. 

491
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,400
I'm curious as to how the, where
you went from there. 

492
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,800
But even that like going through
basic, if you have all of the 

493
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,920
stuff inside you that is an 
outlet to get it out. 

494
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,720
I mean, you see so many guys who
are addicted to fitness, right? 

495
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:31,960
You know, they're runners or, or
they're in the gym lifting or, 

496
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,360
or, or whatever the discipline 
might be, could be MMA, 

497
00:26:34,360 --> 00:26:38,760
whatever, whatever that is. 
You get yourself an outlet where

498
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,520
you have to be disciplined, 
whether whether it's by choice, 

499
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:45,680
you know, for the runner or this
is the program in the military. 

500
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:47,960
You get that discipline, you get
that structure and you have an 

501
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:50,640
outlet to let go. 
Some of these things, even 

502
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,200
though at that young age you 
have no idea those are the 

503
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,360
things that are being provided 
for you that you're kind of 

504
00:26:55,360 --> 00:26:56,680
hungering for. 
Am I hearing that right? 

505
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:58,600
Yeah, pretty much, yeah. 
Yeah. 

506
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:03,240
I mean, at the at the time, I 
knew that going into a, an, an 

507
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:08,720
entirely new environment with 
entirely new people was exactly 

508
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:09,680
the thing that I was looking 
for. 

509
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:11,520
I wasn't missing anything that 
was behind me. 

510
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:13,680
I was fully prepared to let it 
go. 

511
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:15,960
And so there there wasn't 
anything that was holding me 

512
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,320
there. 
So then when I could show up and

513
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,280
and just be I'm going to be the 
best interest. 

514
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:21,640
Who was it before? 
Don't give a fuck. 

515
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,240
I don't give a fuck. 
Nobody really like who really 

516
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,840
cares where I was before? 
I'm here right now and I'm going

517
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:28,000
to be right in your face the 
whole time. 

518
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,080
So you better remember the name,
you know, like in the end, 

519
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:36,080
that's what it was. 
And so that, you know, propelled

520
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:40,600
me through a a a lot because, 
you know, even in the military, 

521
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:42,760
there's still bullies. 
There is still people who are 

522
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:44,960
like, Oh, you're, you're, you 
think you're being a Truman. 

523
00:27:45,360 --> 00:27:47,600
You can't do this shit. 
And then you'd have to crush 

524
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,680
their nuts and, you know, make 
sure that they remember your 

525
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:53,640
name. 
And in the end, you know, that 

526
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:59,280
all grows you into a a kind of 
person who you want to be. 

527
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,920
But you know, there's there's 
definite tolls to it there. 

528
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:08,800
There's a when there's a real 
lack of trust that that 

529
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:13,360
eventually became the most 
important aspect of holding 

530
00:28:13,360 --> 00:28:18,520
together the platoon in 
deployment when we're stressed 

531
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:23,960
beyond a Max and you know, you 
have outside institutions 

532
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:29,640
telling you things that that may
or or may not be true, but 

533
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,120
they're trying to get you like 
it. 

534
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:34,320
It. 
The deployment got out of 

535
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,480
control for like to be really 
honest about it. 

536
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:41,080
And I know that a lot of people 
who served me aren't and won't 

537
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:46,040
be ever, but there was a lot of 
shit that was out of control And

538
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:47,840
you know, I was I was a part of 
it. 

539
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:49,600
I was definitely a part of it 
there. 

540
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:54,880
There was definitely issues with
with criminality, war crimes. 

541
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,320
There was definitely an issue 
with detainee operations. 

542
00:28:57,560 --> 00:28:59,960
There's issues with kinetic 
operations. 

543
00:28:59,960 --> 00:29:02,320
There was the kinetic 
operations. 

544
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,200
Even when there wasn't issues 
with them, there's still high 

545
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,840
amounts of stress. 
If you're because in the 

546
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,960
infantry, you're, you're not 
just fucking around, you are 

547
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:17,000
have a directive to go and find 
and destroy the enemy, whoever 

548
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,000
that enemy is deemed is deemed 
to be. 

549
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:23,520
And most of the time you don't 
get a choice in that decision. 

550
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:27,280
You're just executing it. 
And that's a very important 

551
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:33,200
thing to realize that that's the
job, because we would like, and 

552
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,160
especially nowadays, we would 
like to imagine that people on 

553
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:42,240
the ground have a have a choice 
in the, and who they're being 

554
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,320
pointed at to, to go and 
destroy. 

555
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:49,160
And a lot of times they don't, 
but they do have a choice to 

556
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,480
disobey illegal orders because 
that's part of the job as well. 

557
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,000
You are supposed to know and 
understand if someone gives you 

558
00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:00,360
an illegal order, you have the 
right, the absolute right to 

559
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:04,200
disobey it in the moment. 
And that's very, very important 

560
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:07,160
for service members and 
everybody to know that that's 

561
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:09,920
the law. 
That's not like a, a, a thing. 

562
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,320
That's that's what the law says.
So it's very important. 

563
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,520
Is one of the questions I had 
for you because again, you look 

564
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:21,440
at you look at the type of music
that that that that the 

565
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:25,000
quarantine is and I mean, many 
people look at that type of 

566
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,600
music as like I think about Rage
Against the machine. 

567
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,680
You know, that's that's what I I
certainly got rage vibes when 

568
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:33,600
especially listening to the 
lyrics because the lyrics are so

569
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,200
deep as well, right. 
And that's Zach and company 

570
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,000
that, that that's what they 
they, they were the, the, the, 

571
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:41,400
the beats were awesome, the 
riffs were awesome. 

572
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,240
But then you go into the lyrics 
and it's like, wow. 

573
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:49,040
And, and, and, you know, I think
about the idea of following 

574
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,520
orders and it's, it's like that 
type of music and then following

575
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:53,360
orders. 
They don't seem to be one of 

576
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:55,760
those things that one of my 
questions was, was it tough for 

577
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,360
you to follow orders there? 
But but now bringing in this 

578
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,120
dimension of it, the dimension 
that you're bringing into it 

579
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:03,480
too. 
I mean, that's another one. 

580
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:07,320
There's that moral part and that
making sure that, you know, this

581
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:11,040
huge operation stays the way 
it's supposed to be and 

582
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,960
corruption and, and things like 
that get thrown out and like 

583
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:15,200
illegal orders that you're 
talking about. 

584
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,680
I don't, I don't know that I've 
ever heard that in the modern, 

585
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,680
the modern verbiage, like the 
idea of an illegal order. 

586
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,280
Is that something that you saw a
lot of? 

587
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,120
Is that something that you 
personally had to deal with or 

588
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,400
was it just always in the back 
of your mind as sort of a a 

589
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:32,680
safety net that was there in 
case it was necessary? 

590
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,560
No, I was given illegal orders 
and I was proud to disobey them.

591
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:40,520
Wow, yes, wow. 
And I was proud to stand in 

592
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,080
front of my platoon and tell 
them exactly why I disobeyed it.

593
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:47,560
And I did. 
This is what I mean by this is 

594
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:48,960
what I mean by avergence 
normalcy. 

595
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,800
Like, just because everyone's 
telling you exactly what you're 

596
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,760
supposed to do doesn't mean that
it's the right thing to do. 

597
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,080
You know, 40 million people 
can't be wrong. 

598
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:00,560
Yes, they fucking can. 
Yes, they fucking can. 

599
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,920
You know why Nazi Germany? 
That's why 40 million people can

600
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:05,680
be fucking wrong. 
They can be absolutely, 

601
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,160
completely wrong. 
So it's very, very important to 

602
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:16,760
remember that when you have a 
understanding of the moral code 

603
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,240
and when you can align it with 
the ethical code and the 

604
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,960
judicial code that is 
surrounding you, you, you're 

605
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:27,040
going to be in the right. 
And if the other people are not 

606
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:30,400
abiding by it, you need to be 
able to recognize it so that you

607
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:37,520
can not do that. 
Wow, I, I, I, I understand when 

608
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:39,680
it comes to like confidentiality
and things like that. 

609
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,160
And, and, and having to, I don't
know how much you're allowed to 

610
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:43,880
talk about how much you're not, 
but I'm going to ask the 

611
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:48,880
question, was it, was it during 
active? 

612
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,960
Like was it during a firefight? 
Was it during an active mission 

613
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:54,480
like was it was, was, was their 
lives on? 

614
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:56,080
Were their lives on the line at 
that point? 

615
00:32:56,080 --> 00:33:01,000
And, and with the moment where 
you made the call to go that 

616
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,600
direction? 
Was it one of those things where

617
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:06,600
things kind of started going in 
slow motion a little bit like 

618
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,600
where you become hyper present? 
Or was it an instantaneous thing

619
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:13,640
because you were turned into 
this, you know, instinctual 

620
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:17,840
machine? 
Actually, no, it wasn't. 

621
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:21,360
It wasn't any of that. 
OK, and so I'll, I'll tell you a

622
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,160
story and this is a story I 
haven't actually told before 

623
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:25,480
because this one is is kind of 
controversial. 

624
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:28,600
I'll try to leave out the best. 
I named the the the names and 

625
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,400
stuff. 
But so we were coming up on this

626
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:33,200
house. 
We had gotten Intel that this 

627
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:38,600
particular house was part of the
bomb making, you know, team that

628
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,800
was around in the AO. 
So we went out and showed their 

629
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,800
and showed up there with two 
squads thinking, you know, you 

630
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,600
know, it'll be a night mission. 
We'll go and grab this one, you 

631
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,560
know, maybe other two people and
it'll be no big deal. 

632
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:55,160
So we get there and this dude is
standing out in front of his 

633
00:33:55,160 --> 00:34:00,280
house with an AK waiting for us.
And so we go up and are ready to

634
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,880
fire and, you know, there's this
huge tension about it. 

635
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:07,680
Was it because the Roe is he has
to raise it at you? 

636
00:34:08,639 --> 00:34:10,960
What's the RO, the RO, the rules
of engagement, The. 

637
00:34:11,199 --> 00:34:12,560
Rules of engagement. 
Yeah, I know. 

638
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:17,400
The rules of engagement state 
that you cannot fire on someone 

639
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,800
if they are holding a weapon. 
They have to be pointing it at 

640
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,679
you with lethal intent. 
Means they can't be pointing it 

641
00:34:22,679 --> 00:34:24,880
at your legs and then you fire 
at their head. 

642
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,480
They have to be pointing with 
legal intent and then you react.

643
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:32,960
That means you got 1.22 seconds 
or so to react and we train for 

644
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:34,480
that. 
We train for it and we're all 

645
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:39,239
really fucking good at it. 
So we get there weapons, 

646
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,360
failures, you know, he doesn't 
raise it, he's kind of fucking 

647
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:43,800
with us. 
At the same time, you could tell

648
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:45,159
this dude was a little bit of a 
troll. 

649
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:49,400
So it was this really fucked up 
situation and we eventually 

650
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:55,639
found that this guy was part of 
the the bomb making thing. 

651
00:34:55,639 --> 00:35:00,040
And his his thing was he would 
get kids to build hit the bombs 

652
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,320
and if they blew up while they 
were building the bombs, he just

653
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:06,160
dug a small grave and put them 
over in a corner in his basement

654
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:10,200
and just let him rot. 
It was horrifying. 

655
00:35:10,240 --> 00:35:14,000
It was one of the worst 
situations I had ever seen in 

656
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:18,720
the war in my entire life. 
It, that was a high number, top 

657
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,960
three, top five South. 
We stood out. 

658
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:26,800
We stood with this guy for a 
real long time because we were 

659
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,720
trying to, we decided to take 
the interrogation upon 

660
00:35:29,720 --> 00:35:32,200
ourselves, but the interrogation
got a little bit out of hand 

661
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,120
because some of our NCOS started
having emotional reactions to 

662
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:39,120
what they were finding. 
And I mean, rightfully so. 

663
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:45,000
Like I, I don't, I don't, I've 
never heard of, you know, that 

664
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:50,000
kind of that, that kind of 
absolute disregard for any kind 

665
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:51,800
of humanity, especially for the 
most vulnerable. 

666
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:53,520
I've, I've never seen it that 
bad. 

667
00:35:54,880 --> 00:36:00,240
And we, you know, some, some 
people started, started to 

668
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:06,080
aggressively handle him, we'll 
say, and they were trying to get

669
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:10,280
information out of him. 
But the aerial surveillance that

670
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:14,240
was above us recognized that 
there was an incoming somehow he

671
00:36:14,240 --> 00:36:20,880
had tripped some kind of, you 
know, communication to the other

672
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,920
to signal to the other members 
of his team. 

673
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:25,800
And they were bearing down on 
us. 

674
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,640
And there was about 30 of them. 
And there's about 15 of us. 

675
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,160
So we're sitting there about 
2:00 to 1:00 and we're thinking,

676
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:35,240
all right, now you we've got to 
dig in positions around this 

677
00:36:35,240 --> 00:36:36,760
thing. 
So we're frantically trying to 

678
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:39,920
dig these these things. 
And we were waiting for them to 

679
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:41,640
come in. 
And they came to me and said, 

680
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:47,480
hey Martin, do you want to turn 
on the guy right to beat the 

681
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:49,080
shit out of them? 
And I said no. 

682
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,600
They said, well, if you don't do
it, then how do we know that? 

683
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:54,040
And I said, don't even give me 
that shit. 

684
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:57,200
That's a fucking illegal order 
and you God damn know it and you

685
00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:59,560
better take that shit and go 
take it back and fuck inside and

686
00:36:59,720 --> 00:37:01,400
get the fuck away from me before
I kill you. 

687
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:05,560
Like that's, that's the reaction
that I had to an illegal order. 

688
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:08,360
And they didn't do fucking shit 
about it because they knew that 

689
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:10,080
it was legal order and they just
moved on. 

690
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:12,760
So that answers the question. 
It was hair trigger. 

691
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:16,280
You didn't even, didn't even 
hesitate even in, even in those 

692
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:21,120
heightened circumstances. 
I, I, I mean, we all need to 

693
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:22,360
know the end of the story. 
I'd be, I'd be. 

694
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,680
So you know, how did it, how did
it turn out in that situation? 

695
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:29,400
You got these guys bearing down 
on you, so your Ariel knows 

696
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:30,560
about it. 
Good Lord. 

697
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:32,440
Oh my God. 
What, what, what what happened 

698
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,240
here? 
So this was the night of, of a 

699
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,120
major amount of stress with the 
biggest relief that we've ever 

700
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:40,400
had. 
So the the how it resolved the 

701
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:44,360
cell was absurdly simple because
we had the aerial, the aerial 

702
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:47,000
drone up in the air. 
They were already in contact 

703
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,000
with the Air Force. 
So they already had an A10 on 

704
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,320
the way. 
So they just sent an A10 and 

705
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:53,680
annihilated them and we didn't 
even see them. 

706
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:56,160
We didn't, we didn't, we didn't 
even meet him. 

707
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:57,560
We didn't even go check their 
weapons. 

708
00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:58,760
They were just like, no, let's 
hear another. 

709
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:00,280
Team like. 
Like, Oh yeah, we heard him. 

710
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:00,960
Yeah. 
Oh yeah. 

711
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:03,560
Like, yeah, OK. 
It was, they were maybe half a 

712
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:04,960
click away. 
Like they, they. 

713
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:06,160
Oh my. 
God, they were. 

714
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,440
Really close, yeah. 
It's, it's not like we, it was 

715
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:12,560
dark and they were low crawling 
so we couldn't see them. 

716
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:16,000
And they knew that specifically,
like we, it would have been a 

717
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,040
hell of a fight, you know, like 
'cause they were, if they were 

718
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:22,240
trained enough to not go running
up into this, into this 

719
00:38:22,240 --> 00:38:24,920
situation, that means that they 
knew what they were doing. 

720
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:30,360
So it was about to be on. 
And you know, we were expecting 

721
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:32,240
to, everyone was expecting to 
die. 

722
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:36,240
You know, when we were digging 
those, those positions, we were 

723
00:38:36,240 --> 00:38:37,880
like, this is probably going to 
be our grave. 

724
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,880
But when those a 10s lit up and 
we, we, you know, saw him and 

725
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:44,160
heard him, we were just like 
fucking cheering out in the 

726
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:45,600
back. 
And they're like, all right, 

727
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:47,600
guys, we're done. 
Knock home. 

728
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:50,400
We walked home with no incident.
It was fucking insane. 

729
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:54,200
It was insane. 
That is, that is a crazy story 

730
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:57,200
and and not your and not your 
only one clearly. 

731
00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:00,040
Like I mean, I in the top, you 
said it's in the top five. 

732
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:01,880
Oh God, what are the other four 
like? 

733
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:05,520
OK. 
So, so how long, how long a time

734
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:07,920
from when you joined to when you
left? 

735
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:12,960
How many years we talking here? 
So I joined in December 28th 

736
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:17,040
2004 and I got out in September 
7th of 2007. 

737
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,680
Was 911 a motivating factor for 
you? 

738
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:26,440
Yeah, yeah, it was. 
But at the same time I was very 

739
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,720
conscious of the fact that we 
were not attacking Saudi Arabia.

740
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:34,240
Right, OK. 
I was very, very aware of that. 

741
00:39:34,240 --> 00:39:36,120
And I very much did not like 
President Bush. 

742
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:38,760
I thought he was a fucking 
retard idiot. 

743
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:40,720
I thought he was absolutely 
stupid. 

744
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:46,160
And I thought that that the only
reason why this this war was 

745
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:48,600
going anywhere is because of 
Rumsfeld and Cheney. 

746
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:50,760
And I think history's kind of 
played that out to be right. 

747
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:55,800
And you know the motivating 
factors, you know, and, and 

748
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,720
Colin Powell, you know the 
famous name Colin Powell holding

749
00:39:58,720 --> 00:40:03,280
up the vial. 
Yeah, I, I knew that that those 

750
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:08,600
things were probably bullshit 
and even going in, I knew that 

751
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:12,520
most likely the reasons that 
they were telling the civilians 

752
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:16,640
is not what was really going on.
I, I could tell that they were 

753
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:25,400
lying, but regardless, I knew 
that there was an, there was a 

754
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:28,240
lot there was, there was selfish
motivations to go into the 

755
00:40:28,240 --> 00:40:34,320
military, but there was also, 
you know, I knew that I knew 

756
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:37,600
that I could handle it. 
I knew that I could spot when 

757
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,760
someone was bullshitting me. 
And I knew when I, that I knew 

758
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:42,600
how to deal with it, that I 
didn't give a shit about 

759
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:46,240
bullies, that in the end, I knew
that I can handle bullies. 

760
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,600
So if that's who I'm going to 
fight is theocratic fascist 

761
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:52,960
bullies, well, yeah, I'm your 
guy then, you know. 

762
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:56,600
Yeah, I mean, like you're 
saying, you know, the, the the 

763
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:59,360
stuff that's way above my pay 
grade, these things where where 

764
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:03,200
where, you know, agendas and 
okay, well, we can use this so 

765
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:05,600
we can achieve that. 
All of these things here. 

766
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:10,040
I mean, it's so, it's, so it's, 
it's, it's, it's almost too big 

767
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:12,920
for a normal person to, to even 
fathom when you think about what

768
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:15,000
goes on under the surface. 
But, but at the end of the day, 

769
00:41:15,240 --> 00:41:19,040
you're also seeing a dude who's 
trolling you and using children 

770
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,880
to make bombs. 
And, and, and, and like you 

771
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:24,560
said, you put it so, so, so, so 
well. 

772
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:28,120
You know, the people who are the
most vulnerable using them and 

773
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:33,520
then and casting them aside, you
know, so, so, so, so the horror 

774
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:37,040
and war as hell. 
And we know this and, and what's

775
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:40,480
out there. 
I mean, you know, you're also 

776
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:41,920
seeing that. 
And I mean, it's, it's, it's 

777
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:45,280
almost one of those impossible. 
It's, it's paradoxical. 

778
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:48,880
There's so much paradox when it 
comes to this because and, and 

779
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:53,800
there you with a bunch of guys 
in the mess and in the middle 

780
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:56,320
and, and, and trying to figure 
out and make sense of it. 

781
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,120
Well, God, it's really tough to 
make sense of, of, of stuff like

782
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:01,520
that. 
But yet here we are. 

783
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:04,080
What year did you say you left? 
You saw O 4 you got in. 

784
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:06,320
What year did you say you left? 
2007. 

785
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:10,960
OK. 
And it sounds like in that time,

786
00:42:11,720 --> 00:42:16,000
a lifetime of things like, you 
know, it sounded like you needed

787
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:17,720
to get out. 
Was it on your own accord? 

788
00:42:17,720 --> 00:42:19,480
Was it that was it theirs? 
Was it both? 

789
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:21,120
How did you, how did, how did 
you end up out? 

790
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:26,520
It was, it was my own accord and
I, it was a really interesting 

791
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:31,760
story. 
So essentially once I got back 

792
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:36,600
from from leave, they had forced
me to talk to an army 

793
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:41,400
psychologist because I I asked 
to if there was anyone that I 

794
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:44,040
could talk to off the record 
because a lot of shit had 

795
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,160
happened like this. 
This happened before I went on 

796
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:47,720
leave. 
Does that happen? 

797
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:49,760
OK, I've sorted, Sean, I'm sorry
to interrupt. 

798
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:56,240
That alone seems extremely the 
forethought there and the, you 

799
00:42:56,240 --> 00:42:58,400
know, knowing yourself there, 
that the presence of mind, the 

800
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:01,640
president, the awareness that 
you had there, that sounds like 

801
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:04,000
the right move. 
It sounds like the right move. 

802
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,160
It doesn't sound like the 
stereotypical move of somebody 

803
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:11,600
in that situation. 
Were you rare asking for that 

804
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,600
request? 
And because I think of that 

805
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:21,760
mentality is why I got tricked. 
So that Army psychologist was 

806
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:26,080
not a part of the unit and he 
was required to report 

807
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:28,080
everything that I said to my 
unit. 

808
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:30,920
And he didn't tell me that. 
He said that it was confidential

809
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:32,760
off the record and it was it was
not. 

810
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:37,520
So he then relayed that 
information back to my unit and 

811
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:41,800
said and also added on the part 
that we don't know whether or 

812
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:47,720
not he's going to come back. 
And so by the time I got back to

813
00:43:48,240 --> 00:43:51,880
my unit, all of my bags were 
packed, everything was ready to 

814
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:55,280
be sent off and everybody had 
written me off as, oh, he was 

815
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:57,880
probably going to leave anyway. 
Is he even at liberty anymore? 

816
00:43:57,880 --> 00:43:59,920
And I'm standing right next to 
my team leader and they're like,

817
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,240
he's not there, is he? 
And he's like, no, he's standing

818
00:44:02,240 --> 00:44:04,200
right here. 
The Hell's he had to tell him 

819
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:08,160
four times on the radio. 
It was like they just didn't 

820
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:12,680
want to believe it. 
And in the end, I, and, you 

821
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:15,520
know, I ended up having getting 
in lots of fights with, with 

822
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:18,120
people in my, in my unit. 
I end up standing up to some of 

823
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:20,320
my NC OS because they were 
bullying other members of my 

824
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,360
team. 
There was, you know, just 

825
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:26,440
really, really stupid shit that 
they didn't understand and they 

826
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:29,000
were trying to pick a fight just
fucking because. 

827
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:33,280
And in the end, I was at a point
to where I had already killed 

828
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:37,000
people in, in, in the, in combat
situations. 

829
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:42,080
I had zero problem just fucking 
somebody up just because. 

830
00:44:42,240 --> 00:44:44,920
And mind you, this is before I'm
even 21 years old. 

831
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:49,560
That's wow. 
So, so in the end I was put 

832
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:51,600
into, I was put in the talk and 
when I was in the talk, the 

833
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:54,040
Sergeant major for the battalion
came in and was like, the hell 

834
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:56,600
are you doing in here? 
You, you don't belong in here to

835
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:58,160
sit around doing nothing talking
on the radio. 

836
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:00,440
No, you're meant for greater 
things. 

837
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:02,120
Because I had already talked 
with him. 

838
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:05,160
I already had a relationship 
with the Sergeant major and, and

839
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:08,920
joining his, his security force 
before deployment. 

840
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:12,400
So he already knew of me and he 
had also heard of the stuff that

841
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:14,320
I'd done because I was in his 
battalion. 

842
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:16,480
And so he's like, you don't 
belong here. 

843
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:20,120
So I started working for him 
directly and I started helping 

844
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:26,800
him with investigations and 
missions around inside the FoB 

845
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:31,880
that needed a level of 
operational security and a 

846
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:35,520
attention to detail that an 
infantryman could give and 

847
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:38,240
someone that he could trust. 
And because I didn't have 

848
00:45:38,240 --> 00:45:40,400
anything else, he swooped me up 
and picked me up into the, you 

849
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:42,200
know, into the crow's nest and 
was like, you're one of the, 

850
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:45,600
you're one of these guys now. 
And the rest of my platoon 

851
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:47,920
didn't fucking like that because
I had to up my security 

852
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:50,200
clearance. 
And so then I couldn't tell 

853
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:51,720
them. 
And so then when I came around 

854
00:45:51,720 --> 00:45:53,680
and they asked, dude, why aren't
you in the company talk anymore?

855
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:55,880
What, where are you? 
I'm like, I can't tell you. 

856
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:58,160
And they're like, dude, what the
Hell's the matter with you? 

857
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:00,960
I'm like, no, really, your 
security clearance is not high 

858
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:02,680
enough to know what? 
And they're like, dude, you're 

859
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:04,360
such an asshole. 
What the Hell's the matter? 

860
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:07,400
I'm like, no, I'm, I'm, I'm not 
being a Dick. 

861
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:11,680
I'm trying to tell you that this
is above your fucking pay grade.

862
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:13,960
And scares the shit out of me 
knowing high school. 

863
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:19,640
Stuff like that. 
What it was, that's exactly what

864
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:20,960
it was. 
It was stupid high school 

865
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:26,160
bullshit with men who were 24 to
28 years old and not realizing 

866
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:28,840
that someone around them could 
try to do something better than 

867
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:31,360
what they thought they could do.
And that's what it was. 

868
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:34,440
It was little, it was little 
boys trying to act like big ass 

869
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:38,400
men and it was stupid. 
It was just stupid. 

870
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:41,760
Some of them realized what was 
going on and they were and they 

871
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:43,280
were cool with it. 
And they're like, I won't ask 

872
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:47,280
any ask any questions. 
And other other of them were 

873
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:51,880
just reacting like that. 
So in the end, the Sergeant 

874
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:56,040
major sent me on a mission to go
guard this this guy at the 

875
00:46:56,040 --> 00:47:00,560
Northgate and the Northgate, 
this guy turned out to be 

876
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:03,680
essentially a triple agent. 
He was playing the local 

877
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:08,800
nationals and he was playing the
Insurgency and he was playing us

878
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:12,000
at the same time. 
And he was trying to get us all 

879
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:16,240
to destroy each other and he was
giving bad Intel and good Intel 

880
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:19,480
to all sides to try and make 
them coalesce on one point, 

881
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:22,720
which was going to be a 
Northgate vehicle born IED, 

882
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:25,400
which he was going to blow 
himself up, including me. 

883
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:29,800
And I then I found out that the 
Sergeant major sent me there 

884
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:33,760
because he knew what what what 
the guy was doing and he wanted 

885
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:35,880
to tie up a loose end. 
I am not fucking kidding you. 

886
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:42,960
Oh my God, Sean. 
That's, that's the hardcore 

887
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:47,480
reality of it and when so 
luckily I was able to 

888
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:51,000
interrogate the guy, figure out 
what was actually going on in 

889
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:55,480
the two hours that I that I was 
pulling this guard duty and 

890
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:59,560
convinced him to give me 5 
seconds before he set off the 

891
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:02,880
the vehicle borne ID at the 
Northgate and he gave me 5 

892
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:06,240
seconds and I felt the blast 
blow me forward. 

893
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:09,640
I missed it that much. 
Oh my. 

894
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:11,480
God. 
And so when I showed back up at 

895
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:13,720
the Sergeant major to report 
back from my guard duty, he was 

896
00:48:13,720 --> 00:48:17,440
like, what the fuck are you 
doing here, you know? 

897
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:21,560
So then I called him on his 
bullshit. 

898
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:23,160
Most unsettling things I've ever
heard. 

899
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:25,120
Trust me. 
Yeah, I know. 

900
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:29,640
It took me about 20 years, 20 
years of therapy to to deal with

901
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:31,200
all of this shit. 
Yeah. 

902
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:33,560
Yeah. 
So then I show up back at and I 

903
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:35,320
at Sergeant major and I am 
pissed. 

904
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:39,560
And I, I tell him, get the 
Colonel, we're going to go meet 

905
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:41,920
in a skiff and we're going to 
talk about this shit right now. 

906
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:46,320
Because from everything that I 
can see, you guys just knowingly

907
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:48,320
sent me to my death hoping that 
I would die. 

908
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:52,360
And you didn't create an 
operation order for it. 

909
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:54,480
So there was no record that I 
would even be there. 

910
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:58,880
So they were expecting me to 
just, you know, to just be 

911
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:01,840
another casualty. 
And it just happened to be like 

912
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:02,880
that. 
And it would have totally gotten

913
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:05,280
swept under the rug is there 
would have been no questions 

914
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:07,080
whatsoever. 
They were fucking smart about 

915
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:08,520
it. 
And because I called them on it 

916
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:12,240
and I had the Intel and I had 
the data and I had everything. 

917
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:16,920
I kept vigorous notes about 
everything and everything that 

918
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:19,000
Sergeant major was having me do.
And I, and I gave it to the 

919
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:21,840
Colonel and he was like, what 
the fuck is this? 

920
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:25,120
And it had a long conversation 
with the Sergeant major because 

921
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:27,160
he didn't know what the Sergeant
major was doing. 

922
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:33,240
So because I was able to then 
turn them against each other to 

923
00:49:33,240 --> 00:49:35,840
divide and conquer using their 
own fucking war principles 

924
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:37,160
against each other, against 
them. 

925
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:41,040
They, they finally came to it 
and they're like, all right, 

926
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:42,280
we're going to give you 2 
options. 

927
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:45,800
It's obvious that you are 
capable of being in Special 

928
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:47,880
Forces. 
It is obvious that you have the 

929
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:50,520
skills that's necessary. 
We think that you would be a 

930
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:54,600
fantastic Special Forces soldier
regardless of how we, how we 

931
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:56,840
feel about, you know, all of 
these different things. 

932
00:49:57,040 --> 00:49:58,920
And we're hoping you just, you 
know, let the other things under

933
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:01,080
the bridge like they were trying
to, you know, a little bit. 

934
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:03,000
It's a bribe. 
Not a bribe. 

935
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:05,000
It's a. 
It's an incentive. 

936
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:06,720
It's. 
A Right, so they said we'll give

937
00:50:06,720 --> 00:50:08,280
you 2 options. 
We'll give you the golden ticket

938
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:10,680
or the golden parachute. 
Golden ticket is we'll we'll get

939
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:13,160
you into Special Forces. 
The first duty station that 

940
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:15,640
you'll have as soon as you get 
back to the five of a 9th is in 

941
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:17,600
Fort Bragg. 
And we will and we will send you

942
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:20,360
there with a recommendation from
the Sergeant major. 

943
00:50:20,720 --> 00:50:22,240
No, no. 
They'll send me to Fort Bragg, 

944
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:27,720
NC OK, Just they'll send me to 
Special Forces training with a 

945
00:50:27,720 --> 00:50:30,760
recommendation from the Colonel 
and from the Sergeant major, 

946
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:32,680
both of whom were TAB Special 
Forces. 

947
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:34,880
Yeah. 
So it would, it would have a 

948
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:37,360
huge amount of weight like I, I 
would essentially be showing up 

949
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:42,040
there as like the golden child, 
you know, or they said, or we'll

950
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:44,960
give you the golden parachute 
out, which is 50% disability and

951
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:49,160
discharge right away. 
I said, fuck you guys, I don't 

952
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:51,520
trust you at all. 
And if you, if this is what I'm 

953
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:54,640
looking forward to with my 
higher UPS sending me to my 

954
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:57,360
death knowingly, then fuck all 
of you. 

955
00:50:58,080 --> 00:50:59,280
Give me the golden parachute. 
I. 

956
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:01,520
So was it Instacall? 
You knew immediately you were 

957
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:02,360
out. 
I didn't. 

958
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:05,080
Yeah, I didn't even. 
I didn't even wait barely 10 

959
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:08,200
minutes to think about it. 
Yeah, because I know. 

960
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:10,680
Wow, like how long till you're 
back home? 

961
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:12,200
Like like what's the turn around
time on that? 

962
00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:14,760
Is it weeks because of all the 
you know or or or are they able 

963
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:17,400
to expedite things if necessary?
They were able to expedite it 

964
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:19,240
really fast. 
They were able to pull it like I

965
00:51:19,240 --> 00:51:21,160
had been. 
They had been talking about 

966
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:24,160
sending me back home, you know, 
since I came back from leave, 

967
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:27,720
you know, and which was like in 
in April or May of earlier that 

968
00:51:27,720 --> 00:51:29,320
year. 
Because in their mind, OK, trust

969
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:32,240
in the unit is essential. 
Trust in the unit is essential. 

970
00:51:32,240 --> 00:51:34,920
Now this guy's coming back and 
we don't have full trust in him.

971
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:37,760
That's their, that's their logic
in their mind or their, their, 

972
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:38,960
their, their way of thinking, 
right? 

973
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:41,400
Yeah. 
And then I go and and execute on

974
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:47,920
a high level and come back and 
do do the, you know, this thing 

975
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:50,360
where if I go back into a 
regular unit and tell them that 

976
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:51,760
story. 
Yeah. 

977
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:54,960
Untenable, completely fucking 
untenable. 

978
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:57,240
So they knew that they couldn't 
like keep me there. 

979
00:51:57,560 --> 00:51:59,880
They knew that I couldn't just 
go back to the five O 9th and 

980
00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:02,720
and just, you know, hop back in 
with Charlie company and act 

981
00:52:02,720 --> 00:52:05,680
like everything's fine. 
No, they already there was 

982
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:09,600
already people who wanted me 
dead and like we're way happy to

983
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:12,000
see me die on a mission. 
They were they'd be super 

984
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:15,680
ecstatic about it. 
So like the difference between 

985
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:19,320
what the reality was of that 
camaraderie and brotherhood and 

986
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:23,840
trust is a real thing. 
But when it's yanked back for 

987
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:27,360
dumb ass reasons, you feel it. 
You really feel it. 

988
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:29,680
And you start to realize the 
conditionality of all of it. 

989
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:37,520
So you come home and I mean, my 
gosh, your reasons for going 

990
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:40,080
there, seeing what you saw, you 
come home. 

991
00:52:40,240 --> 00:52:42,600
You've alluded to the idea of 20
years of therapy. 

992
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:47,760
We're a couple years before the 
quarantine is formed, right? 

993
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:50,960
But did you know at this point 
that you wanted to go down this 

994
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:52,560
direction? 
Was music always there with you?

995
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:56,320
And was it always kind of 
nudging you, saying, hey, you 

996
00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:59,400
need some of this, you know, 
when did it come back to that? 

997
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:02,320
When you got home, How long? 
You know, you know, I actually 

998
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:06,200
took a guitar with me to Iraq 
and I still have it actually as 

999
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:09,400
it's this this red guitar that, 
that's a Fender show Master 

1000
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:12,400
guitar. 
I I bought it in Alaska and the,

1001
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:15,200
the case on it still has mud 
from Iraq when it was thrown 

1002
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:18,040
around on the shipping 
processes. 

1003
00:53:18,240 --> 00:53:20,720
Yeah, it's still, it's still 
busted up from that trip too. 

1004
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:25,040
But I had that guitar with me in
Iraq and I would sit outside my 

1005
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:27,640
can a lot, a lot of times when 
you know nothing else was going 

1006
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:30,000
on, 12 hours on and 12 hours off
and. 

1007
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:31,560
A lot of downtime, a lot of 
downtime, right? 

1008
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:33,360
A lot of people don't realize 
that, yeah. 

1009
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:35,480
Yeah, and there was many times 
in which a captain would come 

1010
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:37,920
walking by and, and be like, oh,
dude, you play. 

1011
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:40,400
Oh, dude, that is so great. 
I should come back and bring, 

1012
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:42,080
bring my axe. 
We'll go and play together. 

1013
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:45,000
I'd be like, yeah, sure, Sir, 
you know, let's let's do that. 

1014
00:53:45,240 --> 00:53:49,480
And they would and they would. 
So it was real fucking like, I'm

1015
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:52,440
sitting there, you know, jamming
out with, with sergeants and, 

1016
00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:55,680
and captains and stuff. 
And I'm just an E4, you know, 

1017
00:53:55,680 --> 00:53:58,200
and everybody's sitting there 
like, kiss this guy, you know, 

1018
00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:00,640
like, what the hell? 
That's what music does. 

1019
00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:03,280
It's communal art that we talked
about, yeah. 

1020
00:54:03,720 --> 00:54:06,080
Right. 
So, yeah, I like, I, I still, 

1021
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:09,960
you know, I still, you know, 
kept through music even through 

1022
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:13,280
all of that. 
You know, it was I would be 

1023
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:15,840
singing to myself all the time. 
There's many times in which I'd 

1024
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:18,920
be filling up water cans and 
just be sitting out, you know, 

1025
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:21,240
doing that and be singing to 
myself. 

1026
00:54:21,240 --> 00:54:23,280
And somebody comes by and be 
like, dude, what are you 

1027
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:26,400
singing? 
What, why are you like, are you 

1028
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:27,720
a singer? 
Like, what are you doing? 

1029
00:54:27,720 --> 00:54:31,160
And I thought that they would be
like, you know, stop doing that.

1030
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:34,120
Operational security, noise and 
light discipline. 

1031
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:34,920
I thought they were going to do 
that. 

1032
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:37,200
And they come up to me and be 
like, dude, I'm a singer too. 

1033
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:40,080
And I've been trying to like, 
not let people know that I'm a 

1034
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:42,680
singer. 
And like, it's like they would 

1035
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:45,240
have, they want to have a secret
conversation about music. 

1036
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:50,040
And I'd be like, oh, thank God. 
So it was, and I say that to 

1037
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:51,360
people. 
I say that to people all around.

1038
00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:53,040
I'm a karaoke king. 
You can't get me off the stage. 

1039
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:55,320
I, I love it so much and it's, 
it's, it's and I'm good. 

1040
00:54:55,320 --> 00:54:58,840
I got chops. 
But I, I'll say it to people 

1041
00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:02,480
because I love drawing that out 
of them because there's that 

1042
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:04,640
little secret part of them that 
are like, it's like people who 

1043
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:06,200
are pro wrestling fans. 
They don't want people to let 

1044
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:07,480
people know they're pro 
wrestling fans. 

1045
00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:09,240
You know, it's a, it's like a 
dirty little secret. 

1046
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:11,200
Oh, I, I, I would always love to
sing to. 

1047
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:14,280
No, no, dude, don't just say 
you'd love to go do it. 

1048
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:17,440
Go do it. 
And oh, I'll be terrible, OK. 

1049
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:19,400
You might be terrible the first 
time or whatever, unless you 

1050
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:22,640
practice a lot beforehand, but 
be terrible until you're good 

1051
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:25,080
because you'll get good and, 
and, and let it out of you. 

1052
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:27,240
And I love that you're a light 
for that. 

1053
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:30,240
Even in a situation like that, 
you're a light for that. 

1054
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:33,240
Because people do keep these 
parts of them a secret. 

1055
00:55:33,240 --> 00:55:36,120
And it's it and it's killing 
them or, or maybe it's not even 

1056
00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:37,920
killing them. 
It's it's, it's a, it's a 

1057
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:40,360
superpower to help deal with 
life. 

1058
00:55:40,720 --> 00:55:41,880
And there are so many people 
that do. 

1059
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:45,080
I'm so glad that you said that 
because, yeah, I mean, and, and 

1060
00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:46,600
you don't have to do it. 
Like, I look at you and I'm 

1061
00:55:46,600 --> 00:55:48,840
like, Oh my God, I wish I could 
do it at Sean's level. 

1062
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:50,720
Like, I look at that. 
It's like, oh, my goodness. 

1063
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:54,920
But at the same time, it still 
scratches the same itch when you

1064
00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:57,200
do it. 
You know, it doesn't matter how 

1065
00:55:57,200 --> 00:55:59,120
many people you're performing in
front of or what it looks like 

1066
00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:01,440
or what the application is or 
how many songs you got streaming

1067
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:04,680
right now. 
If you get it out, it helps with

1068
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:06,880
life. 
It takes the edge off or might 

1069
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:09,200
even do much, much more as it's 
done for you. 

1070
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:12,480
So I'm sorry to kind of rant on 
that, but I'm so glad that you 

1071
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:14,240
brought that up because that's 
the exact same. 

1072
00:56:14,240 --> 00:56:17,640
So many guys who have this 
creative part of them need to 

1073
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:19,640
let it out. 
You know, wherever they're at, 

1074
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:22,960
there's guys on a job site that 
are listening to this that are, 

1075
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:24,920
you know, going through the same
stuff that you did. 

1076
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:27,320
It's just a different job site. 
They're on an oil rig or they're

1077
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:28,960
on a, you know, wherever they 
are. 

1078
00:56:29,240 --> 00:56:31,400
And it's like dude, let that 
part out of you. 

1079
00:56:32,240 --> 00:56:34,960
So sorry I didn't mean to rant 
on that, but I just I just so 

1080
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:37,760
I'm elated by what you just said
there. 

1081
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:40,600
No, you are, you are 100% right,
actually. 

1082
00:56:40,600 --> 00:56:43,680
And there's even science to back
up what you're saying. 

1083
00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:48,800
Yeah, it's it's really like 
you're you are so right on it 

1084
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:51,680
truly. 
And, and you know, the, the 

1085
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:55,760
resonance that you make in, in 
your face, when you properly 

1086
00:56:55,760 --> 00:57:04,280
resonate in in for singing, it 
creates a vibration in your, in 

1087
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:07,640
your face. 
And when you do it properly, not

1088
00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:11,280
only are you opening up your 
sign, it's to speak clearer, But

1089
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:16,040
when you combine it with using 
your, your, your vocal, your, 

1090
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:20,520
the, the vocal flaps and you 
realize that everybody has the 

1091
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:27,960
exact same tools to sing. 
So technically and anybody can 

1092
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:33,880
sound like anybody. 
It's experience and learning and

1093
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:37,440
everything that has come before 
and our biology that determines 

1094
00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:39,720
whether we're going to be a high
voice or a low voice. 

1095
00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:43,040
And it's all just chemicals. 
It's just chemicals, man. 

1096
00:57:43,520 --> 00:57:47,000
So we all have the same the 
exact same tools to sing and 

1097
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:50,600
make it happen. 
It's it's so good. 

1098
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:53,520
Like, OK, so I want to, you 
know, go into the quarantined 

1099
00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:55,800
because it's, it's, it's it's 
powerful stuff. 

1100
00:57:56,600 --> 00:57:59,120
And I'm I and powerful can be 
used in all sorts of different 

1101
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:01,120
ways. 
Talk about, of course, you know,

1102
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:05,760
the, the guitars and the, and 
the, the, the vocal stylings are

1103
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:07,680
powerful. 
The lyrics are powerful. 

1104
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:11,120
I started by listening to, I 
wanted to hear your cover. 

1105
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:13,360
I, I for one of the first things
I saw is that you did a cover of

1106
00:58:13,360 --> 00:58:15,600
A change is going to come. 
I'm like, OK, there's a good 

1107
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:19,440
place to start right here to see
where this guy is coming from. 

1108
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:24,720
And, and, and I, I love that a 
band that actually I do hear 

1109
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:28,200
resemblance to, and I'm 
wondering if they are an, an 

1110
00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:32,120
influence to you is Disturbed. 
I, you know, I, you know, OK, 

1111
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:33,640
not there. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

1112
00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:36,160
I, I, I hear that. 
And one of my favorite things 

1113
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:38,360
about Disturbed is the covers. 
They do. 

1114
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:40,640
And I mean, I can list a bunch 
of them that I love. 

1115
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:43,040
Not just in Sounds of Silence 
went went the Sound of Silence 

1116
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:45,440
went really huge and all that. 
But my favorite band of all 

1117
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:47,640
time, tied with a couple other 
ones is Faith No More. 

1118
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:49,360
They did a version of Midlife 
Crisis. 

1119
00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:52,600
They, they did a Genesis song, 
Land of confusion. 

1120
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:55,720
They did a tears for fear song. 
I've just loved their styling in

1121
00:58:55,720 --> 00:58:57,760
a cover. 
The first thing I thought of is,

1122
00:58:57,760 --> 00:59:00,760
oh man, I want Sean to release a
cover album of, of his 

1123
00:59:00,760 --> 00:59:03,640
interpretations of songs because
you have such a cool voice. 

1124
00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:07,520
And, and, and again, the, the, 
the, the, the, the arrangement 

1125
00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:11,160
that you had was fantastic. 
Did you start with covers? 

1126
00:59:11,160 --> 00:59:12,680
Did you start writing your own 
stuff? 

1127
00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:15,840
Was it more lyrical type stuff 
before you realized these are 

1128
00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:18,520
songs like how did the writing? 
How did you know that you could 

1129
00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:21,640
write powerful lyrics and move 
it into that? 

1130
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:25,840
Oh, it's a great question. 
I, I, I actually started writing

1131
00:59:25,840 --> 00:59:29,320
first, So I, I learned 
originally guitar through 

1132
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:32,720
covers. 
You know, like every I the 

1133
00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:34,960
first, like I said before, I the
first thing that I learned was 

1134
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:36,960
time of your life. 
The second song that I learned 

1135
00:59:37,160 --> 00:59:40,800
was Crossroads by Cream. 
Oh cool. 

1136
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:46,120
Focusing just on that riff for 
literally months. 

1137
00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:49,880
I literally made that actually 
as well my senior project. 

1138
00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:53,080
I played that song for my senior
project in the style of Jimi 

1139
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:55,080
Hendrix. 
Oh, that's cool. 

1140
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:59,800
And and I ended up getting. 
An end I guess so if you nail 

1141
00:59:59,800 --> 01:00:02,120
it. 
What a great. 

1142
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:05,280
Of of of of concept. 
That's great. 

1143
01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:11,800
Yeah, so, so I started, you 
know, finding my voice in in 

1144
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:16,560
lyrics and, you know, I, I found
the old books that I that had 

1145
01:00:16,560 --> 01:00:18,920
written all of those songs in 
not too long ago. 

1146
01:00:18,920 --> 01:00:21,240
I thought they were destroyed, 
but they were, they weren't my 

1147
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:22,520
my parents had actually kept 
them. 

1148
01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:25,920
And so I went back and looked 
and they're so emo. 

1149
01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:29,520
There is so just this girl 
doesn't like being back, you 

1150
01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:30,960
know. 
But it doesn't, it doesn't 

1151
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:32,840
matter because it's still 
relaying. 

1152
01:00:33,240 --> 01:00:36,160
The same. 
Kind of the same kind of of 

1153
01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:41,160
feelings that I'm talking about 
in, you know, the, the later 

1154
01:00:41,160 --> 01:00:43,480
music just an entirely different
way. 

1155
01:00:43,480 --> 01:00:47,280
And, and it sounds completely, 
you know, much more well 

1156
01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:50,760
educated and well put together. 
And so I can see the, the 

1157
01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:56,520
transfer that there was a, a 
line, a, a, a thread of there's 

1158
01:00:56,520 --> 01:01:00,600
still me coming through all of 
these. 

1159
01:01:00,600 --> 01:01:04,800
Even though each song may be a 
different lens, you still get a 

1160
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:11,560
version of me through that lens.
So yeah, like I and also I, I 

1161
01:01:11,560 --> 01:01:15,480
released a an album called 
Bedroom Ink that was an album of

1162
01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:19,440
covers and but I will I. 
Didn't hit my radar God. 

1163
01:01:19,640 --> 01:01:22,360
That's, that's because it was 
super low key. 

1164
01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:25,880
I, I only released it on band 
camp, but I did some big press 

1165
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:28,680
for it. 
I, I, I ended up getting it in 

1166
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:33,480
Rolling Stone UK and USA TODAY 
and it's so it, it was very, 

1167
01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:38,680
very cool to see that. 
But I recently, I started after 

1168
01:01:38,680 --> 01:01:41,560
I went to, to Blackburn and 
recorded aversion to normalcy, I

1169
01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:43,600
realized that I was doing a shit
ton of things wrong with the 

1170
01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:46,480
mixing. 
I realized that those, that what

1171
01:01:46,480 --> 01:01:50,360
I was, what I, what, how I was 
mixing those songs was entirely 

1172
01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:53,000
incorrect. 
And so I'm just now starting to 

1173
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:57,520
go back and redo and remix them 
and they're already 10,000 times

1174
01:01:57,520 --> 01:02:00,360
better because it's got 
distorted guitars, acoustic 

1175
01:02:00,360 --> 01:02:05,120
guitars, 12 string violin, 
multiple vocals, bass and drums.

1176
01:02:05,120 --> 01:02:07,080
And it's a whole lot to deal 
with. 

1177
01:02:07,080 --> 01:02:10,720
But I just started to, to learn 
the techniques to finally make 

1178
01:02:10,720 --> 01:02:13,320
that happen. 
So it that's also an important 

1179
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:16,040
thing to realize. 
And in music, you might step off

1180
01:02:16,040 --> 01:02:18,840
and take off bigger, bigger bite
than you can chew. 

1181
01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:22,800
But if you attack it with the 
same mentality of how to eat an 

1182
01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:27,400
elephant one bite at a time, 
then eventually you'll you'll 

1183
01:02:27,400 --> 01:02:30,600
get to where where you want to 
be and you'll discover that 

1184
01:02:30,880 --> 01:02:35,760
you'll have that the journey 
created more skills in you than 

1185
01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:37,240
what you originally started out 
for. 

1186
01:02:38,680 --> 01:02:42,880
That makes a lot of sense. 
You know, the current, the 

1187
01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:44,880
current EP, what's the new? 
OK, what's the new? 

1188
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:46,760
I just want to make sure I'm 
What's the newest thing you have

1189
01:02:46,760 --> 01:02:48,720
out right now? 
Aversion to normalcy. 

1190
01:02:49,120 --> 01:02:50,760
Aversion to normalcy is the 
newest OK, good. 

1191
01:02:50,760 --> 01:02:52,800
I want to make sure that is, 
that is because I mean, I listen

1192
01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:57,880
to that and to me that doesn't 
sound like you're on a journey. 

1193
01:02:58,160 --> 01:03:01,160
Like the way that the production
quality is, is, is insane. 

1194
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:04,160
I'm a huge fan of, of, of a band
called 9 inch Nails. 9 Inch 

1195
01:03:04,160 --> 01:03:08,560
Nails is, you know, Trent Reznor
is, is, is, you know, the first 

1196
01:03:08,560 --> 01:03:11,760
album that was released it it, 
there's even a note in the liner

1197
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:14,160
that says 9 Inch Nails is Trent 
Reznor. 

1198
01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:17,360
It's, it's one person. 
And, and, and what I get from 

1199
01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:19,400
this is yes, there's lots of 
different parts. 

1200
01:03:19,400 --> 01:03:20,640
There's different vocals, 
there's different. 

1201
01:03:20,920 --> 01:03:22,680
This all feels like it's you 
though. 

1202
01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:27,720
How many when I listen to say, 
you know, shadow or or or my 

1203
01:03:27,720 --> 01:03:30,040
favorite was actually Nemesis. 
I fucking love nemesis. 

1204
01:03:30,080 --> 01:03:32,840
Oh my God, you want to talk 
about? 

1205
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:35,240
Oh, that what a powerful song 
with depth to it. 

1206
01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:37,480
Thank you. 
But like you're, you're playing 

1207
01:03:37,480 --> 01:03:41,360
shadow and, and, and so how many
instruments are you playing on 

1208
01:03:41,360 --> 01:03:44,120
that versus the rest of the, 
the, the band? 

1209
01:03:44,120 --> 01:03:48,200
Like I feel like a lot of the 
quarantined is, is, is you and 

1210
01:03:48,200 --> 01:03:50,920
then there are company pieces 
that that show up to help you 

1211
01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:52,280
achieve what you want to 
achieve. 

1212
01:03:52,280 --> 01:03:54,920
Is that, do I have that right? 
I don't want to diminish anybody

1213
01:03:54,920 --> 01:03:57,320
else who's been part of the 
project, of course, because 

1214
01:03:57,320 --> 01:04:00,120
collaboration is, is huge. 
But this really does feel like 

1215
01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:01,360
you are the driving force of 
this. 

1216
01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:03,960
Oh yeah, no, you're right. 
I, I am. 

1217
01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:10,120
And so the the all the rhythm 
guitars, acoustic and distorted 

1218
01:04:10,120 --> 01:04:13,080
guitars are all me in vocals. 
This time. 

1219
01:04:13,120 --> 01:04:18,800
I outsource the leads, the lead 
guitars to a guy named Zach Rapp

1220
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:21,800
who played with Dream Theater. 
And dude is fucking 

1221
01:04:21,960 --> 01:04:26,320
unbelievable. 
It is so like those this if you 

1222
01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:28,960
listen to skeleton chair and 
I've had so many people be like,

1223
01:04:29,080 --> 01:04:31,000
did you play the the solo in 
skeleton chair? 

1224
01:04:31,120 --> 01:04:31,760
Did you? 
Did you? 

1225
01:04:31,760 --> 01:04:34,000
Because they want to meet the 
guy who did that shit. 

1226
01:04:34,000 --> 01:04:38,120
And I'm like, you know, I trust 
me, you'll meet him eventually. 

1227
01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:40,960
But the dude is, is off the hook
like he is. 

1228
01:04:41,080 --> 01:04:45,920
He is a musical force that is, 
you know, I am so happy and 

1229
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:48,960
proud to have him on the record.
And I'm very happy to, to 

1230
01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:51,400
continue to work with him. 
And hopefully we can do this 

1231
01:04:51,400 --> 01:04:54,840
shit live because I have a 
vision of him having his, you 

1232
01:04:54,840 --> 01:04:57,800
know, the violin on one thing 
just held on there playing an 

1233
01:04:57,800 --> 01:04:59,480
electric guitar and going back 
and forth. 

1234
01:04:59,640 --> 01:05:01,840
I have a vision of that. 
And I think that's going to be 

1235
01:05:01,920 --> 01:05:03,720
fucking sick if we can do it 
live. 

1236
01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:06,680
So I'm, I'm hoping that that 
that happens. 

1237
01:05:06,680 --> 01:05:09,480
But the, the other guys who 
played on the record were 

1238
01:05:09,720 --> 01:05:13,320
Nashville studio players that 
have been playing in, in studio,

1239
01:05:13,640 --> 01:05:16,960
you know, in Nashville for, you 
know, 10-15 years already. 

1240
01:05:18,080 --> 01:05:22,240
Lewis Espaglia is, is a, I, I 
think he's actually in the 

1241
01:05:22,240 --> 01:05:25,240
country music rock'n'roll or the
Country Music Hall of Fame for 

1242
01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:29,560
doing, for playing on so many 
records in country music that 

1243
01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:32,200
like all of them have blown up. 
You know, like he's played on 

1244
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:35,560
like everybody's fucking record 
as bass because he's like the 

1245
01:05:35,560 --> 01:05:40,880
dude and I, I got him on it and 
he was like, man, I'm so happy 

1246
01:05:40,880 --> 01:05:43,840
to be playing this, this, you 
know, heavy grunge type music. 

1247
01:05:43,840 --> 01:05:46,600
It's it's not something that I 
do everyday, but it's something 

1248
01:05:46,600 --> 01:05:50,760
that I absolutely love. 
And, and Jerry Rowe, who is out 

1249
01:05:50,760 --> 01:05:54,960
touring with his band Friendship
Commanders, and they they're 

1250
01:05:54,960 --> 01:05:58,200
doing fantastic. 
They're crushing it, crushing 

1251
01:05:58,200 --> 01:05:59,560
it. 
They're just a duo. 

1252
01:05:59,880 --> 01:06:02,400
So it's just a, a guitar like, 
you know, kind of like The White

1253
01:06:02,400 --> 01:06:05,040
Stripes kind of thing. 
They're way heavier, way 

1254
01:06:05,040 --> 01:06:09,000
heavier, and it's awesome. 
Easy to book, you know acts like

1255
01:06:09,000 --> 01:06:10,440
that. 
You know, the, the, the easy to 

1256
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:14,680
book, easy to tour in this time 
and place when it comes to, you 

1257
01:06:14,680 --> 01:06:18,360
know, how music is, is, is is 
executed and how people can 

1258
01:06:18,360 --> 01:06:20,120
actually make a living doing it 
and whatnot. 

1259
01:06:21,160 --> 01:06:23,000
That's a cool thing. 
But but at the end of the day, 

1260
01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:26,440
like I listen to that EP and 
it's just OK. 

1261
01:06:26,440 --> 01:06:28,560
So First off, I hope you're 
working on more. 

1262
01:06:28,640 --> 01:06:30,840
I hope there's more, You know, 
as Johnny Carson used to say, I 

1263
01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:32,400
have more to come. 
I hope there's a lot more to 

1264
01:06:32,400 --> 01:06:35,520
come from you. 
It's, it's so good. 

1265
01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:38,480
I, I want to talk. 
I wanted to, if there was one 

1266
01:06:38,480 --> 01:06:44,840
song I wanted to focus on, it's 
Nemesis, because if there's an 

1267
01:06:44,840 --> 01:06:47,800
antagonist in the song, if, if, 
if, if who you're singing about 

1268
01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:50,840
or what you're singing about, 
there's all sorts of things that

1269
01:06:50,840 --> 01:06:55,800
that could be, especially now 
listening after the conversation

1270
01:06:55,800 --> 01:06:58,120
here, knowing about the 
background with the military and

1271
01:06:58,120 --> 01:07:01,240
things like that. 
You know, it could be 

1272
01:07:01,240 --> 01:07:03,480
substances. 
It could be a person itself. 

1273
01:07:03,480 --> 01:07:06,000
It could be, it could be love. 
It could be, yeah, an 

1274
01:07:06,000 --> 01:07:08,680
organization, it could be 
culture itself. 

1275
01:07:09,320 --> 01:07:12,160
There are so many ways that you 
can go with that song. 

1276
01:07:12,440 --> 01:07:16,520
And, and, and again, I go back 
to someone you know, well, Trent

1277
01:07:16,520 --> 01:07:18,080
Reznor actually said this about 
9 HL songs. 

1278
01:07:18,080 --> 01:07:20,560
Don't try and interpret the 
lyrics and, and ask me what it 

1279
01:07:20,560 --> 01:07:22,400
was about. 
Because my job is to put 

1280
01:07:22,400 --> 01:07:24,440
something out there and then you
take it and you make it about 

1281
01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:27,080
what you want to make it about. 
Are you that guy? 

1282
01:07:27,080 --> 01:07:29,920
Or are you like, no, you know, 
we're kind of like rage here. 

1283
01:07:29,920 --> 01:07:32,720
We're raging against a certain, 
a, a certain thing. 

1284
01:07:32,720 --> 01:07:35,480
And I want you to know it. 
Well, actually, you know, I 

1285
01:07:35,480 --> 01:07:40,400
think I, I, I use both, both 
approaches, but in different 

1286
01:07:40,400 --> 01:07:42,800
songs. 
In Nemesis specifically, I, I'm 

1287
01:07:42,800 --> 01:07:45,920
creating the archetype. 
I'm creating the, the archetype 

1288
01:07:45,920 --> 01:07:51,520
of the person who is, you know, 
is the conglomeration of all of 

1289
01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:54,520
the worst qualities that I've 
ever known in any bully that 

1290
01:07:54,520 --> 01:07:56,800
I've ever had. 
Like no bully has has 

1291
01:07:56,960 --> 01:08:03,360
personified every, you know, 
qualification of a narcissist or

1292
01:08:03,360 --> 01:08:05,400
a bully. 
They, they usually pick one or 

1293
01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:10,400
two, you know, that they, they 
try to excel at we'll say, but 

1294
01:08:11,040 --> 01:08:15,880
but there is a profile in a span
of the yeah, there's a span of 

1295
01:08:15,880 --> 01:08:20,200
action that they have. 
And that's what I, what I drew 

1296
01:08:20,200 --> 01:08:24,399
from I, I had specific examples,
you know, of, of friends who, 

1297
01:08:24,600 --> 01:08:28,760
you know, wanted to work more 
operating from a position of 

1298
01:08:29,120 --> 01:08:31,760
wanting to have control and 
let's be your friend. 

1299
01:08:32,319 --> 01:08:36,080
I also had, you know, you know, 
like you said, institutions, 

1300
01:08:36,080 --> 01:08:39,800
when you're standing up to an 
institution and it's just 

1301
01:08:39,800 --> 01:08:43,720
straight up bullying you. 
What, what are you supposed to 

1302
01:08:43,720 --> 01:08:45,080
do then? 
Like we've seen that now with 

1303
01:08:45,160 --> 01:08:50,279
with the bully pulpit being used
for what it is and it's, you 

1304
01:08:50,279 --> 01:08:54,160
know, just absolutely ridiculous
and it makes you want to go up 

1305
01:08:54,160 --> 01:08:56,760
and just slap the dude because 
what else are you supposed to 

1306
01:08:56,760 --> 01:08:58,479
do? 
You know, like, how else are you

1307
01:08:58,479 --> 01:08:59,640
supposed to really react to 
that? 

1308
01:08:59,640 --> 01:09:03,640
Like, you know, so there it's 
he's he's there's a real 

1309
01:09:03,640 --> 01:09:09,120
challenge to the regular person 
to how are you supposed to 

1310
01:09:09,319 --> 01:09:13,560
mitigate that? 
And my response is you can only 

1311
01:09:13,560 --> 01:09:20,560
control the things that you are.
And in the end choosing non 

1312
01:09:20,560 --> 01:09:26,560
violence and understanding that 
their life is 10,000 times worse

1313
01:09:26,880 --> 01:09:30,200
than yours. 
And the true revenge is them 

1314
01:09:30,200 --> 01:09:33,520
living out the rest of their 
bullshit existence with all the 

1315
01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:37,000
hatred and vitriol that they 
have and will only be left for 

1316
01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:39,800
themselves when that's the final
call. 

1317
01:09:40,160 --> 01:09:43,080
When they get the final call, 
that's what they get is they get

1318
01:09:43,080 --> 01:09:45,240
a whole bunch of hatred and 
vitriol and it's just going to 

1319
01:09:45,240 --> 01:09:47,720
be for themselves. 
And when you realize that that's

1320
01:09:47,720 --> 01:09:52,200
the final end, that that's their
true destiny, man, you don't 

1321
01:09:52,200 --> 01:09:53,840
need to do shit to them because 
they already do it to 

1322
01:09:53,840 --> 01:09:56,720
themselves. 
Yeah, well, and I mean, that's 

1323
01:09:57,080 --> 01:10:00,720
to, it's interesting, you know, 
the arc of your life and and 

1324
01:10:00,720 --> 01:10:03,880
what because that concept is 
also biblical, you know, be 

1325
01:10:03,880 --> 01:10:06,400
kind, be kind to your enemies. 
It's like throwing coals on 

1326
01:10:06,400 --> 01:10:09,400
their head. 
I think it says is the is is how

1327
01:10:09,400 --> 01:10:10,840
it goes. 
And that is that is true. 

1328
01:10:10,840 --> 01:10:14,880
But when you're in the moment, 
you know, trying to figure out a

1329
01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:18,160
way to be that bigger person and
then you go and write a killer 

1330
01:10:18,160 --> 01:10:20,200
song about let them be them and 
they're going to do them. 

1331
01:10:20,200 --> 01:10:22,880
I'm going to take this feeling, 
I'm going to take this emotions 

1332
01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:24,880
and I'm going to go write a 
killer song about it instead. 

1333
01:10:24,880 --> 01:10:26,080
I'm going to get it out that 
way. 

1334
01:10:26,280 --> 01:10:28,560
Instead of throwing the punch, 
instead of doing the thing that 

1335
01:10:28,560 --> 01:10:31,640
needed to, you know, that that 
that instinctually, primally 

1336
01:10:31,640 --> 01:10:34,480
needs to be done, you're going 
and you're turning it into 

1337
01:10:34,480 --> 01:10:37,520
something much more powerful, 
much more powerful. 

1338
01:10:37,520 --> 01:10:39,480
Because I mean, imagine, I mean,
whoever it was that you're 

1339
01:10:39,480 --> 01:10:42,360
fighting, instead of writing, 
you know, instead of doing what 

1340
01:10:42,360 --> 01:10:46,400
you did, you know, if you would 
have whatever reacted, whatever 

1341
01:10:46,400 --> 01:10:48,680
reaction looks like. 
And I mean, there are guys out 

1342
01:10:48,680 --> 01:10:51,920
there that have a reaction when 
their spouse antagonizes them or

1343
01:10:51,920 --> 01:10:55,360
when there's something going on 
at work, you know, to somebody 

1344
01:10:55,360 --> 01:10:57,240
where, where, where, where, 
where there's a gang mentality 

1345
01:10:57,240 --> 01:11:00,040
or bully mentality, whatever you
want to call it, like, you know,

1346
01:11:00,080 --> 01:11:04,120
and, and, and instead having 
that awareness, whether it is 

1347
01:11:04,120 --> 01:11:07,560
hair trigger, whether it is, you
know, slow motion, you, you can 

1348
01:11:07,560 --> 01:11:10,080
kind of go, OK, wait a second. 
I'm going to be the bigger 

1349
01:11:10,080 --> 01:11:11,280
person. 
I'm going to remove myself in 

1350
01:11:11,280 --> 01:11:13,040
the situation. 
I'm going to take this emotion 

1351
01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:15,880
now and I'm going to do 
something really powerful or 

1352
01:11:15,880 --> 01:11:17,760
positive with it, whatever that 
might be. 

1353
01:11:17,760 --> 01:11:20,680
You might have, you might go 
shoot the best golf game you've 

1354
01:11:20,680 --> 01:11:22,440
ever shot. 
You might lift more weights than

1355
01:11:22,640 --> 01:11:24,400
you know, you might do your 
record bench. 

1356
01:11:24,960 --> 01:11:29,360
You might write a song like 
that, but it's it's, you seem to

1357
01:11:29,360 --> 01:11:32,880
me, Sean, to be the poster 
child, the guy, the advocate for

1358
01:11:32,880 --> 01:11:39,760
taking stuff and doing it, 
exercising it, releasing it in a

1359
01:11:39,760 --> 01:11:41,520
positive way. 
And it certainly seems like 

1360
01:11:41,520 --> 01:11:42,600
you're doing that with the 
music. 

1361
01:11:43,320 --> 01:11:46,800
Yes, absolutely. 
I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm glad. 

1362
01:11:47,280 --> 01:11:49,960
I I I take that as a very high 
compliment. 

1363
01:11:51,240 --> 01:11:53,280
Well, if anybody listens to it, 
like let's seriously, your 

1364
01:11:53,320 --> 01:11:55,360
streaming service go to the 
quarantine right now, especially

1365
01:11:55,600 --> 01:11:57,160
for those who especially love 
harder stuff. 

1366
01:11:57,160 --> 01:12:00,200
But I'll tell you this, there's 
hard stuff out there for the 

1367
01:12:00,200 --> 01:12:02,440
sake of being hard and there's 
hard stuff that people could 

1368
01:12:02,440 --> 01:12:05,560
just appreciate the, the, the, 
the musical value, even if it's 

1369
01:12:05,560 --> 01:12:09,880
not your style, right? 
You can see the musical talent 

1370
01:12:10,080 --> 01:12:11,840
in there and you can feel the 
depth of it. 

1371
01:12:11,840 --> 01:12:13,800
Again, I, I bring up Rage 
Against the machine. 

1372
01:12:14,000 --> 01:12:16,520
I know raging into the machine 
isn't everybody's cup of tea, 

1373
01:12:16,840 --> 01:12:19,760
but when you listen to the 
lyrics and you and you, you feel

1374
01:12:19,760 --> 01:12:22,320
how passion where, where, where 
that came from. 

1375
01:12:22,320 --> 01:12:25,080
We go back to passion again. 
You can feel the passion in that

1376
01:12:25,080 --> 01:12:26,520
music. 
It's not just loud for the sake 

1377
01:12:26,520 --> 01:12:29,560
of being loud, but for those who
do like stuff with an edge on 

1378
01:12:29,560 --> 01:12:32,720
it. 
Get the quarantined go and, and,

1379
01:12:32,720 --> 01:12:34,960
and, and listen to the to the CP
and follow it. 

1380
01:12:34,960 --> 01:12:37,840
So when new stuff comes out, you
can see what that new stuff is 

1381
01:12:37,840 --> 01:12:41,000
because as you've just talked 
about, it's only going up from 

1382
01:12:41,000 --> 01:12:42,720
here. 
And I like the idea of you 

1383
01:12:42,720 --> 01:12:44,800
revisiting some of these old 
things that you've done and 

1384
01:12:44,800 --> 01:12:47,200
maybe, you know, come up with 
new presentation of it and new. 

1385
01:12:48,360 --> 01:12:50,000
I can't wait. 
I can't wait to hear it. 

1386
01:12:50,000 --> 01:12:52,000
So I didn't mean to interrupt 
you there, but I just, I just 

1387
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:53,600
had to put that exclamation 
point on. 

1388
01:12:53,600 --> 01:12:56,120
We are getting, you know, we're 
longer than we usually take for 

1389
01:12:56,120 --> 01:12:58,040
these things. 
But again, there's, I just 

1390
01:12:58,040 --> 01:12:59,520
appreciate the conversation so 
much. 

1391
01:12:59,920 --> 01:13:01,720
So kind of as we start moving to
the end. 

1392
01:13:01,720 --> 01:13:03,640
Yeah. 
Like, like, please, if there's 

1393
01:13:03,640 --> 01:13:06,000
reaction to that or anything 
else that you want to get out 

1394
01:13:06,000 --> 01:13:10,040
for people about your music, 
please, please release it now. 

1395
01:13:10,040 --> 01:13:12,760
Because again, I just, I, I 
really, really dug it, Sean, 

1396
01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:15,080
really, really dig it. 
Thank you so much. 

1397
01:13:15,080 --> 01:13:17,160
That's that's amazing, dude. 
Thank you. 

1398
01:13:17,640 --> 01:13:19,680
That's fantastic. 
I. 

1399
01:13:19,720 --> 01:13:21,520
Can't be the only person that's 
ever said that to you. 

1400
01:13:21,520 --> 01:13:23,160
There's no way. 
Like, I mean, you're being 

1401
01:13:23,160 --> 01:13:24,560
humble. 
You're being humble. 

1402
01:13:24,560 --> 01:13:26,560
Like you're making some good 
shit here man. 

1403
01:13:27,240 --> 01:13:29,920
No, I, I, I, I really, really 
appreciate it. 

1404
01:13:29,920 --> 01:13:33,600
It's I'm so glad that it reaches
people in the way that it did, 

1405
01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:38,600
because I really took the time 
to, you know, try to utilize all

1406
01:13:38,600 --> 01:13:42,720
of the different aspects that I 
knew to make something that 

1407
01:13:42,720 --> 01:13:45,800
would affect people. 
And I'm really, really happy 

1408
01:13:45,800 --> 01:13:49,240
that it that it does. 
You know, like a lot of times I 

1409
01:13:49,240 --> 01:13:53,000
see marketing is kind of like a 
SIOP and it kind of is, it is. 

1410
01:13:53,280 --> 01:13:56,280
And yeah. 
And so can so connecting all, 

1411
01:13:56,280 --> 01:13:58,440
all of those things has been, 
has been really interesting to 

1412
01:13:58,440 --> 01:14:01,720
put, you know, this, that this 
heavy thing that I spent all the

1413
01:14:01,720 --> 01:14:05,800
time, you know, forging it 
myself and just with my own mind

1414
01:14:05,960 --> 01:14:09,480
and then giving it to AI and say
make me a marketing plan is 

1415
01:14:09,480 --> 01:14:11,560
fucking weird, man. 
But it, it works. 

1416
01:14:12,200 --> 01:14:17,960
But you know, yeah, the so the 
new, we, we've got 2 new singles

1417
01:14:18,560 --> 01:14:21,880
that we haven't released that 
we're, that we're going to be 

1418
01:14:21,880 --> 01:14:25,960
attached to this album, but the 
production of them came a little

1419
01:14:25,960 --> 01:14:28,160
bit later. 
So we've got a second version of

1420
01:14:28,160 --> 01:14:32,000
unspoken that is super dope, 
super dope. 

1421
01:14:32,280 --> 01:14:36,320
And we have another single 
called Instagram Hell that we've

1422
01:14:36,320 --> 01:14:38,520
that we've released before 
that's a little bit more like 

1423
01:14:38,520 --> 01:14:42,480
Tenacious D kind of punk rock. 
You know, funny sort of it it 

1424
01:14:42,920 --> 01:14:47,240
the the line in it is, you know,
it's talking about, you know, 

1425
01:14:48,200 --> 01:14:51,440
essentially social media and 
it's, you know, kind of bullshit

1426
01:14:51,440 --> 01:14:54,080
existence talking about, you 
know, like coffee enemas. 

1427
01:14:54,080 --> 01:14:57,560
They'll kill you, but they still
fucking push them all over the 

1428
01:14:57,560 --> 01:15:00,200
place and dudes are running 
around with, you know, tubes 

1429
01:15:00,200 --> 01:15:02,320
with their ass and coffee and 
being like, yeah, it totally 

1430
01:15:02,320 --> 01:15:04,200
works. 
And they'll die the next day and

1431
01:15:04,200 --> 01:15:06,640
they don't even know it, you 
know, like that kind of shit. 

1432
01:15:06,640 --> 01:15:08,040
That's what the song is really 
about. 

1433
01:15:08,040 --> 01:15:09,840
So. 
And it's also about the pressure

1434
01:15:09,840 --> 01:15:14,280
because the the main line in it 
is get with the programmer, get 

1435
01:15:14,280 --> 01:15:18,880
forgot. 
And that's that's a one line of 

1436
01:15:18,880 --> 01:15:20,480
social media. 
It's like, man, that's a thing. 

1437
01:15:20,760 --> 01:15:25,040
So I so that's coming out soon. 
And we're hoping to put music 

1438
01:15:25,040 --> 01:15:28,360
videos with them. 
We're hoping to do a a a brewery

1439
01:15:28,360 --> 01:15:31,320
tour later on in the Western 
United States. 

1440
01:15:32,480 --> 01:15:36,880
We've, you know, we're starting 
to we've got some really great 

1441
01:15:36,880 --> 01:15:41,040
planes with origin stories. 
This this group called 

1442
01:15:41,040 --> 01:15:45,360
Cumberland Creative that does 
like a really high def film 

1443
01:15:45,920 --> 01:15:48,520
version of. 
So the origin story will will be

1444
01:15:48,520 --> 01:15:52,040
out there for people. 
We've got some really, really 

1445
01:15:52,040 --> 01:15:55,800
great things coming down the 
Pike and I'm really, really 

1446
01:15:55,800 --> 01:15:58,560
excited. 
Not to mention the new versions 

1447
01:15:58,680 --> 01:16:01,640
of Bedroom Inc, which are just 
going to be freaking off the 

1448
01:16:01,640 --> 01:16:02,480
hook, man. 
They're going to be. 

1449
01:16:02,720 --> 01:16:04,080
I can't wait. 
I can't wait to hear it. 

1450
01:16:04,640 --> 01:16:08,600
Yeah, I I can't wait to hear it.
You know, obviously, you know, 

1451
01:16:08,600 --> 01:16:10,480
when this episode comes out, 
Joel and the team will make sure

1452
01:16:10,480 --> 01:16:13,640
we put our your socials and 
things like that on there. 

1453
01:16:13,640 --> 01:16:16,480
But please, please, please, if 
you have a mailing list or you 

1454
01:16:16,480 --> 01:16:19,120
have something where, where, 
where you can alert everybody to

1455
01:16:19,120 --> 01:16:20,960
this stuff. 
Because again, I know it's, 

1456
01:16:20,960 --> 01:16:23,440
it's, it's swimming. 
You're swimming with the sharks,

1457
01:16:23,440 --> 01:16:26,360
man, You're swimming in an ocean
as but, but at the end of the 

1458
01:16:26,360 --> 01:16:30,080
day, if, if a school of fish 
hear what's going on, it can, it

1459
01:16:30,080 --> 01:16:32,520
can carry it really, really 
quickly. 

1460
01:16:32,520 --> 01:16:34,440
And I and I, and I hope that 
happens for you. 

1461
01:16:34,680 --> 01:16:38,200
But at the same time, you know, 
we have a, we, we talk about 

1462
01:16:38,200 --> 01:16:40,680
this on the show, you know, 
quite a bit, the idea of the 

1463
01:16:40,680 --> 01:16:43,800
process being the outcome. 
And, and I mean, I wonder, I 

1464
01:16:43,800 --> 01:16:45,880
don't know, maybe it's a good 
place to finish. 

1465
01:16:46,160 --> 01:16:47,640
You talk about 20 years of 
therapy. 

1466
01:16:49,680 --> 01:16:52,080
You know, the 20 years of 
therapy important, obviously, 

1467
01:16:52,080 --> 01:16:53,600
with what you've seen and what 
you've been through. 

1468
01:16:53,600 --> 01:16:55,120
And we advocate for that all the
time. 

1469
01:16:55,120 --> 01:16:57,240
You know, talk to somebody, get 
it out there. 

1470
01:16:58,000 --> 01:17:00,960
What it starts feeling better 
for the guys who are who got 

1471
01:17:00,960 --> 01:17:04,200
stuff inside. 
It gets better really quickly 

1472
01:17:04,200 --> 01:17:05,920
when you start talking about it 
sometimes. 

1473
01:17:05,920 --> 01:17:08,320
I'm not saying it's not hard. 
I'm not saying, you know, so, so

1474
01:17:08,320 --> 01:17:11,840
I appreciate you saying that. 
Again, you are an alpha male. 

1475
01:17:11,840 --> 01:17:13,920
You are that guy. 
You're the guy who does the 

1476
01:17:13,920 --> 01:17:16,920
things that many of us would 
never do. 

1477
01:17:16,920 --> 01:17:20,360
Thank you for your service. 
Number one, you know, as fucked 

1478
01:17:20,360 --> 01:17:22,840
up as part of it was, thank you 
so much for your service. 

1479
01:17:22,840 --> 01:17:25,280
Like, like I cannot say that 
enough, but also thank you for 

1480
01:17:25,280 --> 01:17:27,720
being vulnerable enough to talk 
about 20 years of therapy. 

1481
01:17:27,720 --> 01:17:29,680
So here goes the question. 
Here's how we finished the show 

1482
01:17:29,680 --> 01:17:32,440
today. 
You know, the 20 years of 

1483
01:17:32,440 --> 01:17:34,480
therapy. 
But then I look at the 

1484
01:17:34,480 --> 01:17:38,080
quarantined, which has helped 
you more, and I don't know what 

1485
01:17:38,080 --> 01:17:40,800
the answer is, but I bet you, I 
bet you it's pretty obviously 

1486
01:17:40,800 --> 01:17:42,440
we're not negating therapy. 
It needs to happen. 

1487
01:17:42,440 --> 01:17:44,160
I get it. 
Medication, all that kind of 

1488
01:17:44,160 --> 01:17:45,880
stuff that needs to happen if 
guys need it. 

1489
01:17:45,880 --> 01:17:49,080
But I'm just from a zoomed out 
perspective. 

1490
01:17:49,640 --> 01:17:52,720
I mean my God, it seems like 
both are helping you almost 

1491
01:17:52,720 --> 01:17:56,960
equally. 
Well, you know, that's I, that's

1492
01:17:56,960 --> 01:18:01,560
interesting. 
But I would have to say that in 

1493
01:18:01,560 --> 01:18:03,800
this case, it's kind of more 
like a chicken and egg kind of 

1494
01:18:03,800 --> 01:18:06,080
thing. 
And in this case, the therapy 

1495
01:18:06,520 --> 01:18:09,840
fueled a lot of the content for 
the quarantine. 

1496
01:18:10,560 --> 01:18:14,000
You know, if I didn't go through
the therapy, I might have made 

1497
01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:17,560
an entirely different album 
because the energies would have 

1498
01:18:17,560 --> 01:18:20,360
been completely off. 
Instead of actually finding the 

1499
01:18:20,360 --> 01:18:23,000
solutions and then writing about
the solutions, maybe I would 

1500
01:18:23,000 --> 01:18:24,200
have just written about the 
problems. 

1501
01:18:25,160 --> 01:18:27,960
Maybe I just would have been on 
and off, you know, completely 

1502
01:18:27,960 --> 01:18:30,520
off and just be like, maybe 
Nemesis is about, you know, just

1503
01:18:30,520 --> 01:18:31,720
fucking, he's going to kill 
those people. 

1504
01:18:31,720 --> 01:18:33,960
Fuck it. 
You know, maybe that, who knows,

1505
01:18:33,960 --> 01:18:37,240
You know, like in the end, the 
the messaging could have been 

1506
01:18:37,240 --> 01:18:42,200
entirely off if I didn't find 
the balance that I needed to 

1507
01:18:42,200 --> 01:18:45,560
make myself into the best 
version of myself. 

1508
01:18:46,200 --> 01:18:48,920
And if I didn't do that, the 
quarantine probably wouldn't. 

1509
01:18:49,080 --> 01:18:52,400
It would still exist, but in a 
totally different mode. 

1510
01:18:55,000 --> 01:18:57,120
What a what a phenomenal, 
phenomenal insight. 

1511
01:18:57,240 --> 01:19:00,120
And, and, and that's exactly 
right, you know, talking about 

1512
01:19:00,120 --> 01:19:03,280
these these things, getting them
out, they create awareness and 

1513
01:19:03,280 --> 01:19:06,120
that awareness, it can be life 
changing and it can be album 

1514
01:19:06,120 --> 01:19:08,920
changing as, as you just so 
eloquently put. 

1515
01:19:08,920 --> 01:19:11,760
Sean Martin, thank you so much 
for taking time out of your day 

1516
01:19:12,400 --> 01:19:14,520
to be part of of of he cast 
today. 

1517
01:19:14,520 --> 01:19:15,840
I cannot thank you enough for 
it. 

1518
01:19:15,840 --> 01:19:19,000
Thank you so much for using your
creative spirits to put some 

1519
01:19:19,000 --> 01:19:22,560
stuff out in the world that just
rock hard because it's also 

1520
01:19:22,560 --> 01:19:24,320
reciprocal. 
There are going to be people who

1521
01:19:24,320 --> 01:19:27,760
listen to your stuff and it 
helps them get stuff out. 

1522
01:19:27,840 --> 01:19:29,360
That's what music certainly does
for me. 

1523
01:19:29,360 --> 01:19:32,080
We talked about how how 
therapeutic music is on the 

1524
01:19:32,080 --> 01:19:33,880
listener. 
It's a reciprocal thing. 

1525
01:19:33,880 --> 01:19:36,280
You're sharing your energy so 
other people can receive the 

1526
01:19:36,280 --> 01:19:38,440
energy and use it and even give 
it back to you. 

1527
01:19:38,480 --> 01:19:40,240
I hope I gave some back to you 
today. 

1528
01:19:40,560 --> 01:19:42,720
Thank you so much for being on 
he cast today. 

1529
01:19:43,160 --> 01:19:45,400
This has been another episode. 
OK, well you know I'll do my 

1530
01:19:45,400 --> 01:19:47,280
little blurb If you haven't 
downloaded the He Changed It 

1531
01:19:47,280 --> 01:19:48,400
app. 
What the heck are you waiting 

1532
01:19:48,400 --> 01:19:50,120
for? 
All sorts of cool stuff are 

1533
01:19:50,120 --> 01:19:52,000
happening. 
Be an alpha consumer. 

1534
01:19:52,000 --> 01:19:55,000
Be the person that has this 
thing before it blows up into 

1535
01:19:55,000 --> 01:19:56,360
the thing it's going to blow up 
into. 

1536
01:19:56,360 --> 01:20:00,080
He Changed It is the hell bent 
on changing the world and making

1537
01:20:00,080 --> 01:20:03,600
the world a better place, 
helping guys you know get to a 

1538
01:20:03,600 --> 01:20:04,960
place where their mental 
Wellness. 

1539
01:20:05,720 --> 01:20:08,840
Not just becomes a focus, but 
can become a strength for them. 

1540
01:20:08,960 --> 01:20:12,280
This has been another episode of
He cast the official podcast of 

1541
01:20:12,280 --> 01:20:14,200
He Changed it. 
My name is Mike Chisholm. 

1542
01:20:14,600 --> 01:20:15,480
Go change something.