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Welcome to. 
He cast the official podcast of 

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he changed it. 
As always I am Mike Chisholm. 

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As always I am excited to be 
here. 

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It is a pleasure to to do this. 
I have a gratefulness Journal 

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that I write in. 
Hey, you know what? 

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Stop throwing rocks at me. 
It's a good thing. 

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Try it yourself. 
It's a good thing to do. 

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I have A gratefulness Journal 
that I write in. 

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And one of the things in the 
morning that it asks me to do is

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to write down three things that 
would make today. 

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Great every single time I have a
podcast day. 

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I know it's already going to be 
a great day. 

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I have never done one of these, 
that hasn't been part of a great

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day. 
I love doing this show and I 

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love what he changed. 
It is doing. 

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If you haven't downloaded the 
app, yet, what the heck? 

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Are you waiting for? 
I am a broken. 

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Record. 
Every intro is the same because 

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we are trying to change the 
world. 

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My wife Candice and her team of 
dedicated developers and and 

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Associates. 
Within the mental health, 

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physical health, all of the 
health Realms of the world are 

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trying to make the world a 
better place, go to heat changed

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it.com to see. 
Everything you want to download 

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the app. 
It's in beta right now. 

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You ain't seen nothing yet but 
it's already doing its thing. 

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It's already helping people were
already getting things. 

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Back from folks, talking 
thanking, my wife and her team 

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for what it is that they're 
doing. 

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He changed.com has the info but 
you can download the app on your

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iOS. 
On your Android. 

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We are non-discriminatory when 
it comes to devices or anything 

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else around here and if hey if 
you wouldn't mind liking 

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subscribing, sharing this show. 
We would appreciate that as 

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well. 
Now, I am really, of course 

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excited. 
As I said earlier, I'm also 

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touched in my heart about the 
guests that we have today, the 

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Jewelry is unbelievable. 
I'm not going to bury the lead 

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and we're going to get to it. 
Now you for folks who have been 

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watching or listening to he cast
for the last year or so you 

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would have known that we came 
into contact with an 

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organization called Mom, stop 
the harm and and and have had 

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some of the folks associated 
with that organization on here 

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on. 
He cast already. 

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And I mean, I think about Helen 
and some of the other people who

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have been on here and shared 
their stories of losing. 

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A family members to substance 
abuse and what substance abuse, 

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you know, the the misconceptions
that we have when it comes to 

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substance abuse and who the 
players are involved, you know, 

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from a stereotypical point of 
view versus reality and we've 

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had all sorts of things. 
I tell us optic network is just 

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put our first episode. 
They have the first episode of 

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he cast on, tell us and it's 
Helens episode. 

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We felt it's very important. 
That would be an episode that 

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that gets out there to a wider 
audience. 

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Audience more quickly. 
Sometimes we get a chance to 

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encounter people who don't get 
the ending, that is 

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stereotypical. 
When it comes to this subject 

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matter, the gentleman that we 
have on today is certainly an 

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example of that and even more 
guy fella Cella. 

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If first off, when you're done 
this podcast, not before. 

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Don't leave the podcast before 
to do this. 

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After the pod. 
Guest is done guy fellow.com. 

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But his TED talks on this 
subject are nothing short of 

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expert from a variety of 
perspectives, including being 

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Hands-On lived on the streets of
Vancouver for decades and and 

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understands this problem that 
our society, no matter where we 

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live and the geography of North 
America, no matter where we are 

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right now, this is a problem 
that is universal. 

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It's plaguing us all and just 
like Men's mental health is 

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largely hidden and 
misunderstood. 

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So guy has graciously, given his
time to be on he cast today. 

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We're so excited to have you on 
here guy fella Cella. 

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Thank you so much for taking 
time out of your crazy day to be

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on. 
He cast today. 

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Hey, Mike, thanks for having me 
just, you know, grateful to be 

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able to carry the message to 
other people and hope it 

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inspires others to do better and
be better. 

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My word, man. 
You just listen to two or three 

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minutes of, either of your TED 
Talks, spend 5 to 10 minutes, 

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not even 5 to 10 minutes on your
website and the inspiration 

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already starts to begin. 
Also, the thought-provoking 

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messages that you give penetrate
deep, you you are really good at

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taking messages, that a lot of 
people want to just kind of keep

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an arm's length and making them 
accessible to to, to the Average

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person who may not, you know, 
they're going through their 

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daily lives and things like 
that. 

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And they may not think about 
this stuff very much. 

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You were really good at creating
a thought-provoking emotional 

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response to this stuff. 
I assume it has to do with the 

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fact that you've lived it. 
Yeah, yeah. 

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Very very much. 
I mean, you know, you go through

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many stages in life and you you 
learn a lot from your 

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experience. 
I often say It's You Can't Buy 

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experience but it sure cost a 
lot, that's for sure. 

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And especially in my life, I 
learned a lot, not only in 

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seeing a lot but, you know, I've
seen the worst of the worst and 

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then I've seen the best of The 
stand. 

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And you know, you look through 
that through a lens that 

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develops, a character of one of,
you know, I wouldn't believe I 

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would care as much as I do today
because of what I experienced 

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and that that teaches you 
something as a person struggling

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for all those years and you 
definitely remember. 

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You know, you always remember 
one thing, when you meet people,

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it's the, you know, you'll, 
you'll always remember how they 

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made you feel. 
That's The one thing that that 

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I've taken away with life and it
meant a lot to me when I 

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struggled and somebody just 
cared and that gives you moments

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of hope that when you have hope 
can lead to opportunity and when

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you have opportunity, everything
can align. 

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And in one day because I was 
that guy that people said he 

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will never change. 
He's going to die. 

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And, you know, you I wasn't 
going to give up but hearing 

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those words also didn't help. 
And so I think a lot of the 

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times in our society we reflect 
on the things that we blame, 

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people sure there's comes to a 
point where there has to be a 

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person takes responsibility, but
also people have to have the 

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opportunity and that's how the 
system fails people. 

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The powerful words right there, 
my word. 

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I want to get into some of those
things as we get into our 

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discussion here, before we do 
just to provide our audience 

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with perspective, what is your 
current position and job right 

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now? 
So yeah, I'm a clinical advisor 

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for three organizations which is
the BC Center on substance. 

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Use Vancouver Coastal Health, 
Regional addiction program. and 

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also the provincial overdose 
Emergency Response Center and 

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then off to the side, I guess I 
have my own public speaking 

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company where I educate people 
on the stigma discrimination 

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harm reduction recovery, all 
aspects of mental health and 

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substance use disorders and just
my through my own personal 

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experience and story and I 
often, you know, share my story 

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to high school students car 
References, you know, Galas. 

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So it's, that's probably my most
rewarding work is as definitely 

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educating the youth. 
Well, I appreciate the fact that

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you're able to do both even in 
the intro video on your website.

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You talk about how the health 
authorities that you work for, 

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have given you the ability to 
talk about how you feel in your 

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experience is, you know, that's 
that's a very small sentence in 

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a Filled video, but really in 
the end, there's two things to 

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that number one speaking. 
I don't want to overstep and 

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say, you're speaking necessarily
on behalf of the health 

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authority. 
That's a big, that's a big 

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organization and all that, but 
the fact that you're allowed to 

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be to speak with Candor about 
these things in your experience.

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And whatnot, that is a huge 
thing. 

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When you work for a bureaucratic
organization where there's a lot

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of red tape and a lot of 
opinions and different things 

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that that you got to deal with, 
they're juxtaposed with what you

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get to do. 
Do on the other side of things, 

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I would think that the speaking 
going to speak to kids, the 

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writing that the TED Talks the, 
the different organizations that

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you get to touch that way. 
I would assume that fuels like 

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that's living life in color and 
then you got kind of the 

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administrative black and white 
stuff. 

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I assume that that fuels the 
other one, doesn't it? 

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Oh, most most definitely. 
Yeah, for sure because you learn

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a lot working in organizations 
to and corporations and you know

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it's great. 
Knowledge is a huge part of the 

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power which how you're going to 
speak to. 

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And so you learn a lot through 
that and you know I was always 

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good no matter what. 
Even when I didn't have a job or

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I was addicted to substances, I 
was good with finding loopholes,

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you know, that's kind of My 
a.d.d. 

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That's what it does. 
Is it looks for, okay, this is 

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how it is. 
So how do I, how do I find, you 

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know, an Avenue in there to try 
to do? 

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It doesn't mean that I can't do 
this and so, you know, those 

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those things are are really what
you try to do. 

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Even in today's society, is 
basically look for the loopholes

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to, to Really support people 
because I find You know, there's

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been a lot of change, especially
the organizations that I work 

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with. 
There's been a tremendous amount

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of change where people are 
starting to actually, not just 

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listen, but actually apply some 
action to behind what's being 

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said. 
And so that's, that's rewarding 

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to see change because I've been 
seeing this for a long time and 

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I tell you in the 80s, you know,
if you were a substance easier, 

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your only option at that point 
was you know, you're going to go

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to get arrested and go to jail 
and that just never helped 

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anybody. 
No. 

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And so at least help the private
prison organization in the 

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states and it helped bureaucrats
create jobs and things like that

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at the expense of people. 
Sorry, I didn't mean to be 

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facetious. 
I didn't mean to that was the 

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inside voice coming out. 
Sorry about that. 

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But but it's so true. 
Right like that? 

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That's where. 
Yeah. 

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You know, I think a lot of the 
things that stops change to is 

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because people have made a 
living off of keeping it the way

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it is. 
And so we have to look at, you 

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know, Society has dramatically 
changed in the last few years, 

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obviously with the pandemic with
the overdose emergency you know 

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we really have to look at doing 
things differently and you know 

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I I've gone and done talks and 
highwomen High schools, where, 

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you know, I always say, listen, 
people who use drugs or 

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struggling, that they're not bad
people, they just in bad 

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circumstances where it's so much
impacted. 

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He used to come up to me after 
the talk where he said. 

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I just I really appreciated you 
saying that drug users aren't 

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bad people. 
My dad died of a drug overdose 

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in 2020 and I don't share that 
with people I say that he died 

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of a brain. 
Your ISM. 

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And he and I made that is like 
intergenerational trauma being 

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passed on to this young kid and 
I mean, I almost like broke 

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down, but he really, he really 
felt comfortable to tell me 

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that, but the sad part is that, 
he felt so uncomfortable and and

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ashamed because of how people 
view people who use drugs. 

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Yeah. 
Now, I mean, this is a I usually

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say this till the end of the 
episode where I either try and 

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and guilt or beg or plead 
somebody to come back on after. 

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We've had a good episode, I'm 
going to ask you, right, this 

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right now, the reason why I'm 
saying this, you brought up no 

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less than five subjects that we 
could do an hour on in 

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everything that you just said 
everything from I found I found 

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drugs because of add what, you 
didn't exactly say. 

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But there's a lot of folks who 
have we talked about that on 

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this podcast. 
For folks who have ADD many 

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times will find drugs because 
it's one of the things that will

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kind of level them off a little 
bit. 

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So there's that. 
Okay, then we move to 

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misconceptions then we move to 
shame and I mean holy smokes 

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could we do a podcast on shame 
and and what it leads to and 

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never mind some of the other 
things that you talked about 

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their you know, when Helen mom 
stop the harm when Ellen 

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Jennings was on? 
And she talked about the idea 

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of, you know, I think about this
boy. 

227
00:14:02,300 --> 00:14:04,800
Right now, the first thing that 
comes to my mind is I tell 

228
00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:07,900
people, I don't tell people, he 
died of a drug overdose and she 

229
00:14:07,900 --> 00:14:11,000
used the word with her. 
She lost two boys in two 

230
00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:14,300
different circumstances years 
later from each other. 

231
00:14:15,300 --> 00:14:19,500
And and you know, the talk about
the idea, you know, I mean, you 

232
00:14:19,500 --> 00:14:21,100
know, the stats better than 
anybody. 

233
00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:23,800
How many of the misconceptions 
that we have out there? 

234
00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:27,400
When people died of Overdose, 
most of the time, it's alone. 

235
00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:29,700
Many, if not most times, it's in
the home. 

236
00:14:29,900 --> 00:14:32,200
It's, it's a completely 
different animal. 

237
00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:35,900
More than what most people 
stereotype it for, and she 

238
00:14:35,900 --> 00:14:39,600
called it a, she calls it 
poisonings, you know, the 

239
00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:41,800
language is different. 
And I think about that boy, at 

240
00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:44,000
that high school right now. 
And it's like, now, his dad was 

241
00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:50,200
poisoned and, and, you know, I 
the shame that he's feeling at 

242
00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:52,800
that age is not something that 
someone should ever have to 

243
00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:55,200
feel. 
And, and it's because of the 

244
00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:58,900
society that we live in, and 
it's up to us to talk about this

245
00:14:58,900 --> 00:15:02,700
stuff. 
The uncomfortable stuff, You are

246
00:15:02,700 --> 00:15:06,000
very good at one of the things 
that either somebody said about 

247
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:09,000
you, or you said, when it came 
to coming to talk to kids at 

248
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:14,300
school, I remember being at 
school, receiving that talk and 

249
00:15:14,300 --> 00:15:15,700
that's all I really have to say 
it for the folks who are 

250
00:15:15,708 --> 00:15:17,700
listening to the audio, I just 
put up the air quotes, Okay? 

251
00:15:17,700 --> 00:15:21,800
That talk when a speaker would 
come in and assembly, they 

252
00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:24,100
gather the whole school together
and that talk would happen. 

253
00:15:24,100 --> 00:15:27,000
And I'm not saying I'm not 
trying to be sarcastic or 

254
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:31,100
cynical towards anybody who ever
presented to children with the 

255
00:15:31,108 --> 00:15:32,900
right intentions. 
That's not I'm doing here. 

256
00:15:32,900 --> 00:15:35,500
But what I am saying is 
sometimes that there are more 

257
00:15:35,500 --> 00:15:38,100
powerful speakers than others 
with more powerful messages than

258
00:15:38,100 --> 00:15:40,600
others and and topics that will 
come through. 

259
00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:44,900
That are a little bit less can 
maybe is a good word for I'm 

260
00:15:44,900 --> 00:15:46,200
trying to be as respectful as I 
can. 

261
00:15:46,500 --> 00:15:50,100
You clearly come in and you are 
different than a lot of these 

262
00:15:50,100 --> 00:15:51,500
folks. 
And many people have said that 

263
00:15:51,500 --> 00:15:54,400
about you, what is it about? 
Your message that makes you 

264
00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:59,400
different. 
Well, I mean, I guess, you know,

265
00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:03,100
just because when you talk to 
kids, you have to go back to 

266
00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:05,900
remembering how you felt when 
you were a kid. 

267
00:16:05,900 --> 00:16:10,100
I think, you know, when you are 
struggling with anxiety and 

268
00:16:10,100 --> 00:16:14,600
depression and trying to be 
accepted and fit in and you 

269
00:16:14,608 --> 00:16:18,800
didn't feel comfortable in your 
skin sometimes and you know 

270
00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:22,200
what, you do these talks that's 
where you go, where I go, I 

271
00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:26,500
remember I just, you know, I 
have the ability to kind of know

272
00:16:26,500 --> 00:16:28,500
the Sense of who I'm talking to 
you. 

273
00:16:28,500 --> 00:16:33,000
But also what relates to them 
and telling any kid, you know, I

274
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:36,800
never tell kids to go use drugs,
but if they are using them, I 

275
00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:39,400
definitely tell them that they 
need to use them safely. 

276
00:16:39,700 --> 00:16:44,500
So just in those two, that 
sentence itself kids have come 

277
00:16:44,500 --> 00:16:49,300
up to me and be like he didn't 
tell us not to use drugs. 

278
00:16:49,300 --> 00:16:52,800
Yeah, the confusion, right? 
You they were almost like big. 

279
00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,100
What? 
They've just never heard from 

280
00:16:55,100 --> 00:16:57,100
that approach. 
And I'm like, why I'm not I'm 

281
00:16:57,100 --> 00:16:59,200
here to tell you how to live 
your life. 

282
00:16:59,500 --> 00:17:03,800
I'm just here to educate and 
they relate even through my 

283
00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:05,099
struggles. 
I think one of the biggest 

284
00:17:05,099 --> 00:17:08,800
things that if we don't think 
that our youth and growing up 

285
00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:14,400
aren't struggling with anxiety 
or some depression. 

286
00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,599
You know, it's trying to 
regulate your emotions is one of

287
00:17:17,608 --> 00:17:21,800
the most challenging tasks that 
I've ever encountered in my life

288
00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:25,700
and as a kid, I didn't have any 
coping mechanisms. 

289
00:17:25,900 --> 00:17:28,400
I had undiagnosed. 
Learning disabilities. 

290
00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:31,600
We're back. 
Then you were just either smart 

291
00:17:31,700 --> 00:17:36,300
or you were dumb, and I felt 
dumb my whole life and got 

292
00:17:36,300 --> 00:17:41,000
diagnosed later on in life. 
And then realized, you know, why

293
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:46,400
I use the drugs, I remember my 
doctor saying it was gave her 

294
00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,800
mate, and he just said to me, 
Guy. 

295
00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:53,700
I don't think you have a problem
with drugs. 

296
00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:55,900
I think there's a reason why you
use them. 

297
00:17:55,900 --> 00:18:00,200
The way you do that changed 
everything. 

298
00:18:01,300 --> 00:18:06,900
You just brought up a name. 
Okay, so so you're a guy that 

299
00:18:06,900 --> 00:18:09,400
works with, you know, his wife 
who's building a men's mental, 

300
00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,700
Wellness podcast, mental 
Wellness application. 

301
00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:14,500
And they're talking about, oh, 
yeah. 

302
00:18:14,500 --> 00:18:18,100
Who are some dream people to 
work with and and what Gabor 

303
00:18:18,100 --> 00:18:19,800
maté? 
Oh, my God. 

304
00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:22,800
Now, I was going to mention him 
a little bit later, but you 

305
00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:26,200
mentioned him now, we haven't 
gotten to your story yet, and 

306
00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:28,000
perhaps it might be a better 
idea to provide a little 

307
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:30,100
context, but you mentioned his 
name? 

308
00:18:30,100 --> 00:18:33,600
How in the hell did you get 
associated with governmet? 

309
00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:37,600
A holy smokes? 
You talk about a man who has 

310
00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:43,300
challenged the way that that 
people think and has been a 

311
00:18:43,300 --> 00:18:45,600
life? 
Not just a light bulb, not not 

312
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,000
even a search. 
What he's gonna flood light for 

313
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:51,200
insight? 
As to how we view The Human 

314
00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:53,700
Experience. 
I mean you're talking about a 

315
00:18:54,100 --> 00:19:00,900
world-class thinker and an 
educator and and healer I mean 

316
00:19:00,900 --> 00:19:02,100
if you want to call it that as 
well. 

317
00:19:02,300 --> 00:19:04,400
How did you get associated with 
him? 

318
00:19:05,700 --> 00:19:09,600
Well, when I was he worked in 
the downtown Eastside and work 

319
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:16,900
for, you know, multiple agencies
down there and we kind of came 

320
00:19:16,900 --> 00:19:23,600
in contact at Insight at first 
and then he was a doctor at 

321
00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:28,800
Portland Housing Society. 
He ran was the doctor at CT CT, 

322
00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:32,700
which is a community transition 
plays for people receiving 

323
00:19:32,700 --> 00:19:36,000
antibiotics because you know, 
sauce, Substance user. 

324
00:19:36,300 --> 00:19:38,500
I had, you know, I survived 
five. 

325
00:19:38,500 --> 00:19:42,800
Osteomyelitis bone infections 
which life-threatening for, and 

326
00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:48,300
my left leg one in my back. 
And if I didn't get treatment 

327
00:19:48,300 --> 00:19:52,000
for for my leg, I would have 
lost my leg and he was one of 

328
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,800
those. 
The doctor, my doctor that 

329
00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:59,600
really brought a lens of saying,
you know, he basically just said

330
00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:03,600
to me like, how do I, how do I 
keep you comfortable here? 

331
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:09,900
And I understand that you have 
to, I know like your life and he

332
00:20:09,900 --> 00:20:12,200
didn't judge me for the life 
that I was living. 

333
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:16,700
He said, you know, you have to 
have antibiotics that are pumped

334
00:20:16,700 --> 00:20:19,600
into your heart every four hours
for three months. 

335
00:20:20,100 --> 00:20:22,900
And how do I, how do I help you 
achieve that? 

336
00:20:23,700 --> 00:20:26,800
And I just said, why I just 
can't be in withdrawal. 

337
00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:30,300
And I said, honestly, you know, 
I've been discharged from 

338
00:20:30,300 --> 00:20:33,300
hospitals because I couldn't 
stop using heroin and I remember

339
00:20:33,300 --> 00:20:37,100
the doctor. 
They're To me the antibiotics 

340
00:20:37,100 --> 00:20:39,200
won't work well Gabe or said to 
me. 

341
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:42,100
Yes, they will. 
You can continue using heroin. 

342
00:20:42,100 --> 00:20:45,200
I just need you to continue to 
get your antibiotics. 

343
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:50,200
And that's reason why I have a 
leg today and then he saw my 

344
00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:54,500
mannerisms because he has ADHD 
as well. 

345
00:20:54,500 --> 00:20:58,200
And he said, you know, that's 
where he made that comment, you 

346
00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:00,600
know, I think there's a reason 
why you use the substances the 

347
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,800
way you do. 
And And I said well that's not 

348
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,700
what people have said to me, 
people keep saying, get off the 

349
00:21:07,700 --> 00:21:10,700
drugs, your life will get better
and I go I have gotten off 

350
00:21:10,700 --> 00:21:14,900
drugs, my life didn't get 
better, got predominantly worse 

351
00:21:14,900 --> 00:21:19,500
because I didn't understand how 
to cope, and he, he opened a 

352
00:21:19,500 --> 00:21:22,600
door. 
And then I was diagnosed, and 

353
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:26,900
once I was diagnosed, I just 
remember the shame just kind of 

354
00:21:26,900 --> 00:21:30,400
melted away from me where I said
to the specialist. 

355
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:35,500
As I always, I've always So 
stupid that and she said guys, I

356
00:21:35,508 --> 00:21:40,100
know like you've had to actually
learn how to function without 

357
00:21:40,100 --> 00:21:44,900
having any support in it, and I 
just made me break down and and 

358
00:21:44,900 --> 00:21:49,100
it was, it was a short time 
after that, you know, I had, you

359
00:21:49,100 --> 00:21:54,200
know, brought back to life six 
times, you know, struggle with 

360
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:58,200
homelessness for four decades, 
not only as a youth, but as an 

361
00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:01,800
adult, you know, ends in and out
of prison. 

362
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:09,100
Stantly for from 1984 to 2013. 
I mean, literally people just 

363
00:22:09,100 --> 00:22:14,600
never thought that I would have 
capacity to change wasn't until 

364
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:20,900
people like Gabe war and others.
That started to look at. 

365
00:22:20,900 --> 00:22:25,700
How do we support this guy to 
get them to the next level? 

366
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,700
And for me at the end, my last 
overdose which was February 

367
00:22:29,700 --> 00:22:34,000
18th, 2013. 
At the supervised consumption 

368
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:39,500
site and I was gone for about 
took me, it took them seven 

369
00:22:39,500 --> 00:22:42,700
minutes to bring me back. 
Took me about 10 minutes to 

370
00:22:42,700 --> 00:22:46,800
actually get up, and when I got 
up, the nurse was crying. 

371
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:51,800
And she, I just looked at her 
and I just Said, why are you 

372
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,600
crying? 
And she said, because I care and

373
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:59,800
I just broke down and started to
cry and I was February 18th. 

374
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:05,500
My sobriety date is March, 18th,
2013, and I basically walked 

375
00:23:05,500 --> 00:23:10,700
away from the downtown east side
of Vancouver with a welfare 

376
00:23:10,700 --> 00:23:15,300
check and one set of clothes and
went to an outpatient program 

377
00:23:15,300 --> 00:23:19,000
and stay at a transitional. 
Recovery House in Surrey and 

378
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:20,600
rebuilt. 
My whole life. 

379
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:24,400
That and got trauma therapy at 
this. 

380
00:23:25,900 --> 00:23:30,600
Outpatient facility where I had 
group counseling counseling and 

381
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:38,200
my life started to really change
and I built it to, you know what

382
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:43,800
it is today. 
I intentionally avoided your 

383
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:48,100
story at first when we started 
this because I wanted our 

384
00:23:48,100 --> 00:23:52,400
audience and the audience. 
It's to come because I believe 

385
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:55,500
this is a, this is a 
conversation that should be and 

386
00:23:55,500 --> 00:23:59,700
will be shared. 
I wanted our audience to see you

387
00:23:59,700 --> 00:24:04,700
now and to hear you now and to 
have little tidbits of the story

388
00:24:04,700 --> 00:24:07,800
because the story is 
unbelievable in itself. 

389
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,100
But I don't want the story to 
become the story. 

390
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,700
I won't where you're at now and 
what you're doing now because 

391
00:24:13,700 --> 00:24:17,500
you are, you were ringing, the 
bell, the emergency Bell as to 

392
00:24:17,500 --> 00:24:20,400
what's happening right now and 
it's really easy. 

393
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:24,300
To get caught up whether it's a 
dramatic movie or a book or 

394
00:24:24,300 --> 00:24:26,200
something like that in the 
process of getting there. 

395
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,600
Okay. 
Your story is incredible and 

396
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,900
you've given enough already 
enough details about it, but I 

397
00:24:31,900 --> 00:24:35,500
wanted to talk about guy in the 
present before. 

398
00:24:35,500 --> 00:24:38,100
We went to guy in the past like 
I want, of course, we want to 

399
00:24:38,100 --> 00:24:40,500
know about how and I'm sure 
you've truncated the story to 

400
00:24:40,500 --> 00:24:42,700
the point where you can, you 
can, you could kind of go 

401
00:24:42,700 --> 00:24:44,900
through it, and I'm sure you've 
got different versions of how 

402
00:24:44,900 --> 00:24:48,700
you you, you talk about it. 
But at the end of the day, the 

403
00:24:48,700 --> 00:24:53,700
present day is where we have the
Emergency in our continent and 

404
00:24:53,700 --> 00:24:59,100
and I love how you just cut 
through the bullshit of, you 

405
00:24:59,100 --> 00:25:01,500
know, there's there's there's 
two schools of thought. 

406
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:06,100
I don't want to oversimplify but
many times the average person 

407
00:25:06,100 --> 00:25:07,300
looks. 
And they see two, they have 

408
00:25:07,300 --> 00:25:09,200
there's two schools of thought 
that they can kind of look 

409
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:16,900
towards its treatment. 
You know, versus the idea of 

410
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:21,200
punishment or drug control, or, 
you know, the other There's two 

411
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,200
kind of arguments there and you 
say I don't care about either 

412
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:27,200
those things I care about people
and I love that and and, and 

413
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:31,400
hearing that nurse crying for 
you. 

414
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:37,100
Six time that you had been gone 
and, and you wake up and 

415
00:25:37,100 --> 00:25:42,100
suddenly you have a lightbulb 
moment, you got that woman cared

416
00:25:42,100 --> 00:25:47,900
about people then I think about 
Gabor, you know, Saying that one

417
00:25:47,900 --> 00:25:52,000
thing to you melting away, shame
and others and I'm glad you 

418
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,400
mentioned others to Cowboys. 
Just the sound bite that we can 

419
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:58,100
you know, obviously right. 
There's a but others saying to 

420
00:25:58,100 --> 00:26:00,600
you and giving you these light 
bulb moments where shame melts 

421
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,800
away that's a huge thing. 
And by the way that's Universal,

422
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,800
there's a lot of guys out there 
who have been categorized and 

423
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,400
categorized, and as a result 
categorize themselves as dumb 

424
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:15,300
have been full of Shame, have 
regulated themselves to a 

425
00:26:15,300 --> 00:26:19,400
certain life. 
Because simply they didn't go 

426
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,100
down the path. 
Far enough of self-exploration 

427
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:26,300
to ask the question. 
Why and and that moment of 

428
00:26:26,300 --> 00:26:28,200
having shame melted away? 
I want to talk about that just 

429
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,200
for a second here. 
I mean, I'm a big fan of brene 

430
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:34,100
brown and and her work on shame 
and talking about shame, not a 

431
00:26:34,100 --> 00:26:36,500
popular subject, but a lot of us
feel it. 

432
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:45,000
How good does it feel to have? 
Years worth of Shame melt away 

433
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,900
and it happens in moments. 
Sometimes for people, that's a 

434
00:26:47,900 --> 00:26:50,100
universal thing. 
You don't have to be a, not the 

435
00:26:50,100 --> 00:26:52,200
drug thing. 
That's a human condition. 

436
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,300
How good does it feel to have 
that Shane Melt Away? 

437
00:26:55,700 --> 00:27:00,700
I definitely keeps you trapped 
in a prison shame and so it's 

438
00:27:00,700 --> 00:27:05,900
kind of like, you know, being 
released like having a sense of 

439
00:27:05,900 --> 00:27:09,000
freedom, because of something, 
you couldn't understand what it 

440
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,000
is. 
It's almost like you're trying 

441
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:15,000
to figure out the puzzle but 
there's a big piece that you 

442
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:19,800
can't find, and then when you 
find that piece and it makes it 

443
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:24,700
all clear, like the vision 
becomes a reality now. 

444
00:27:24,900 --> 00:27:30,800
Now, yes, it's the dream that 
you've often hope for can become

445
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:32,800
real. 
It's almost like you can, you 

446
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:34,900
can touch it now. 
You can see it. 

447
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:39,800
Now, you know, dreams are one 
thing hard Works makes dreams 

448
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:45,000
happen, but you have to, you 
have to remove that that chain 

449
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:50,300
piece. 
And it just gave me the ability 

450
00:27:51,100 --> 00:27:56,800
to actually say, let's do this. 
Like you know, and I don't think

451
00:27:57,100 --> 00:28:03,300
we as people celebrate trying 
enough because people are trying

452
00:28:04,300 --> 00:28:08,800
well we shame people when the 
successful outcome isn't to the 

453
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:12,500
standards of what we would our 
expectation is. 

454
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:19,100
See you have to you have to 
celebrate that people get up 

455
00:28:19,500 --> 00:28:21,700
constantly. 
I always look at people that are

456
00:28:21,700 --> 00:28:26,000
trying and I say to myself, Oh, 
boy. 

457
00:28:26,500 --> 00:28:31,200
Yeah, out of the way because 
this guy is figuring it out and 

458
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,100
we have to really start to 
celebrate that. 

459
00:28:33,100 --> 00:28:34,900
People are trying in our 
society. 

460
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,000
Maybe they're not getting the 
outcome that they're that 

461
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,100
they're, they're Desiring, but 
they're still trying. 

462
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,500
And I think when you do that, 
that's the encouragement, that 

463
00:28:44,700 --> 00:28:49,400
that keeps the shame away, you 
know, be like, hey man, all 

464
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:51,600
good, man. 
I have a guy that went to 

465
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:55,400
treatment and he lasted 14 days 
and he came out and use He was 

466
00:28:55,400 --> 00:29:00,300
just devastated and I said, what
the heck are you like beating 

467
00:29:00,300 --> 00:29:04,800
yourself up for? 
He goes, ah, you know, I didn't 

468
00:29:04,900 --> 00:29:08,300
get the outcome, I want it, and 
I said, how many days were you 

469
00:29:08,300 --> 00:29:11,900
sober? 
And he's, like, 14. 

470
00:29:11,900 --> 00:29:14,700
I said when was the last time 
your 14 days sober? 

471
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,500
As like, I don't even know and 
I'm going will, dude, that's a 

472
00:29:18,500 --> 00:29:22,100
miracle, man. 
And you change the perspective 

473
00:29:22,100 --> 00:29:25,300
for people to actually see that.
Oh, my God. 

474
00:29:25,300 --> 00:29:27,700
Yeah, I was doing it and it's 
like, there you go. 

475
00:29:27,700 --> 00:29:31,200
Now, we learned from that and we
build off that that's success. 

476
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:33,900
Oh my god, let's celebrate. 
Right. 

477
00:29:33,900 --> 00:29:36,200
Trying, here's the Grinders out 
there. 

478
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:40,700
By the way, all the Grinders who
are hey, any guy or gal for that

479
00:29:40,700 --> 00:29:43,300
matter, but anybody out there 
who is listening to this or 

480
00:29:43,300 --> 00:29:46,400
watching this and is grinding it
out, whatever that looks like 

481
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,600
whether or not like you got your
head down, you're just moving 

482
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,200
forward, just trying to go 
day-to-day. 

483
00:29:51,700 --> 00:29:55,000
We're thinking about the 
Grinders right now and and if 

484
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,700
you can just maybe change your 
perspective, like guy is talking

485
00:29:58,700 --> 00:30:02,500
about and maybe look to 
something a little bit to get 

486
00:30:02,500 --> 00:30:03,600
you out of the rut that you 
might. 

487
00:30:03,700 --> 00:30:07,400
Be in or whatever. 
That is the grinding is the 

488
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,400
skill needed to do that. 
We just need to get the 

489
00:30:10,408 --> 00:30:13,900
destination and the route to the
destination but the grinding is 

490
00:30:13,900 --> 00:30:18,200
the actual skill that you have 
phenomenal message right there. 

491
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:19,500
Guy. 
Thank fucking. 

492
00:30:19,500 --> 00:30:21,400
Thank you so much for saying 
that. 

493
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,600
That is a, that is a really 
important thing that we all need

494
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,400
to hear. 
And and I want to, I want to 

495
00:30:27,408 --> 00:30:32,900
dovetail it over to changing the
perspective because I can't tell

496
00:30:32,900 --> 00:30:35,000
you and it might Be drugs or 
alcohol. 

497
00:30:35,100 --> 00:30:37,400
Alcohol is a drug I. 
Oh, man, and your Ted talk. 

498
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,000
When you talk about how, you 
know, we talked about the idea 

499
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:44,100
of how we manage substances 
every day and it's fine. 

500
00:30:44,100 --> 00:30:47,600
It's called your bar, your bar 
is there and, and, you know, it 

501
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:49,800
might be the bartender calling 
you a gap or whatever. 

502
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,700
That is exactly the same thing 
as a safe injection site, it's 

503
00:30:52,700 --> 00:30:55,500
just more socially acceptable. 
Bam, male. 

504
00:30:55,500 --> 00:30:57,400
Mm, fuck yeah. 
I love that. 

505
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:00,700
So changing the perspective and 
that's what we do. 

506
00:31:00,900 --> 00:31:03,500
I think about any time growing 
up. 

507
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:08,000
Up with the, the just say, no 
mentality. 

508
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,000
That was, that was just the 
rhetoric. 

509
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,000
That was, was pumped into me 
from when I was a little kid. 

510
00:31:14,300 --> 00:31:17,700
And the result of that, when I 
would hear about an alcoholic, 

511
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:24,300
who went through treatment or a 
program, or a life Moment of 

512
00:31:24,300 --> 00:31:28,000
clarity, change their life and 
everybody celebrates. 

513
00:31:28,300 --> 00:31:31,600
And then you here one, two, 
three months, six months a year,

514
00:31:31,700 --> 00:31:35,500
six years, 10 years. 
The line that person falls off 

515
00:31:35,500 --> 00:31:38,500
the wagon, right? 
And how everybody is want to 

516
00:31:38,500 --> 00:31:42,200
talk about and the shame in the,
you know, because oh no, we 

517
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,800
celebrated that we, we button 
that up. 

518
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,300
That was done. 
It don't work like that. 

519
00:31:47,300 --> 00:31:50,200
That's, that's, that's Hallmark.
That's that's, that's 

520
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,800
television. 
That's that's fantasy, that that

521
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,200
it doesn't life does not work 
that way. 

522
00:31:55,500 --> 00:31:58,600
And and you giving that 
perspective your again, I called

523
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:03,400
you a floodlight, you are that 
that 14-day deal was a good 

524
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:03,800
deal. 
Deal. 

525
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,600
And it was on the right 
progression in the right path. 

526
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,100
That's a perspective that we 
need to have. 

527
00:32:10,100 --> 00:32:11,900
So that's just me. 
Give an exclamation points to 

528
00:32:11,908 --> 00:32:14,400
what you're saying. 
I can't thank you enough for 

529
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:19,800
saying those things I want to 
time. 

530
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:20,400
Yeah. 
Okay. 

531
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:21,900
So we're already a half hour 
into this thing. 

532
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:27,900
When did you, you know, I assume
school, learning disabilities. 

533
00:32:27,900 --> 00:32:30,700
These sorts of things were the 
gateway to you getting to the 

534
00:32:30,700 --> 00:32:33,500
life that you got to at what 
point were you living? 

535
00:32:33,700 --> 00:32:35,800
On the street and was it a 
direct result of that? 

536
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,300
Was it also problems at home. 
What was it that led you to 

537
00:32:39,300 --> 00:32:42,900
living on the street? 
Yeah, a lot of a lot of 

538
00:32:42,908 --> 00:32:47,000
dysfunctional, home life, 
trauma, you know, alcoholism you

539
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:51,800
know, I often call my my 
parents, you know, physically 

540
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:57,200
there but emotionally void. 
And so, as a kid I struggled 

541
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,700
with my own anxiety and 
depression and you know, saw 

542
00:33:00,700 --> 00:33:04,000
things that average kids would 
never see in their Lives. 

543
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:06,200
What does what does that mean? 
I don't want. 

544
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:08,300
I don't want to get too 
specific, but just just like 

545
00:33:08,300 --> 00:33:11,300
what what's a give us a little 
bit of a like, what does that 

546
00:33:11,300 --> 00:33:13,200
mean? 
What did you see as a kid that a

547
00:33:13,208 --> 00:33:15,700
lot of kids are my there was 
some there was some domestic 

548
00:33:15,700 --> 00:33:16,900
violence. 
Okay. 

549
00:33:16,900 --> 00:33:20,500
Yeah abuse verbal abuse, you 
know when you're dealing with 

550
00:33:20,500 --> 00:33:22,200
that and trying to hear your 
views. 

551
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:25,600
I often new Young. 
When I would go over to other 

552
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,200
kids houses. 
The things were very different 

553
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:29,000
over there. 
Come. 

554
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:33,000
Yes. 
When you can compare, I realized

555
00:33:33,700 --> 00:33:36,000
You know that there was there 
was some issues. 

556
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:40,000
And for me I'd ran away from I 
started running away from home 

557
00:33:40,300 --> 00:33:47,200
at 12 years old and you know I 
got involved with gangs you know

558
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,400
even though you know when I when
I started getting involved with 

559
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:52,800
them people, you know, they were
much older than me and, you 

560
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:55,300
know, people would say that, you
know, you were probably being 

561
00:33:55,300 --> 00:33:57,500
groomed. 
And yeah, even if I was I didn't

562
00:33:57,500 --> 00:34:00,700
really care because it was 
acceptance, which is something 

563
00:34:00,700 --> 00:34:03,300
that's huge for used. 
If you're not accepted in your 

564
00:34:03,300 --> 00:34:05,900
life. 
Life of who you are as a person 

565
00:34:06,100 --> 00:34:08,699
and somebody accepts to you, 
that's love to you. 

566
00:34:08,699 --> 00:34:11,900
That felt good. 
You know started going into 

567
00:34:13,500 --> 00:34:16,300
juvenile detention by the time I
was 14. 

568
00:34:16,300 --> 00:34:20,900
My my mom made me awarded the 
court which, which kind of 

569
00:34:20,900 --> 00:34:24,600
really was one of those things 
where I basically, when I heard 

570
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:27,100
those words, I didn't really 
understand what it meant, but it

571
00:34:27,100 --> 00:34:30,100
meant that the province was now 
going to take over my care, 

572
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,400
which was very defeating for any
fourteen-year-old. 

573
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:38,600
The Here. 
And and and then you get out of 

574
00:34:38,900 --> 00:34:41,900
juvenile detention and your 
bounced around from group home 

575
00:34:41,900 --> 00:34:44,000
to group home, and you're 
struggling with learning 

576
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:48,300
disabilities, unresolved, trauma
and drug use, and I started 

577
00:34:48,300 --> 00:34:51,000
running away from that and 
running into the downtown 

578
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,500
Eastside at a very early age, 
got involved with heavier drugs,

579
00:34:55,500 --> 00:34:58,900
you know, I'd been forced into 
treatment as use, you know, work

580
00:34:58,900 --> 00:35:00,500
programs. 
You name it. 

581
00:35:00,500 --> 00:35:02,500
They tried it. 
They tried to punish me, they 

582
00:35:02,500 --> 00:35:06,100
tried to punish it. 
A out of me, you know, they're 

583
00:35:06,100 --> 00:35:09,700
often looked at, you know, the 
iron Rod of discipline, that 

584
00:35:09,700 --> 00:35:15,200
that's what he needs. 
He's just a bad kid, and sadly, 

585
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:19,500
for me, it just made me run away
from everything including myself

586
00:35:19,500 --> 00:35:23,000
and that's where the 
homelessness started. 

587
00:35:23,300 --> 00:35:26,200
You know, I did have some 
moments of success. 

588
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:30,100
I did try to get a life, you 
know, I did have a couple years 

589
00:35:30,100 --> 00:35:33,400
under my belt between you know, 
18 to 22. 

590
00:35:33,700 --> 00:35:38,800
I was just trying, I wasn't 
sober or anything, but I was 

591
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:43,500
trying to do what society would 
call normal to feel like I was 

592
00:35:43,500 --> 00:35:49,400
part of society, you know, and I
just had these overwhelming 

593
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:55,000
thoughts of sadness and and then
the heavy heavy drugs, I started

594
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:59,600
getting back into those and then
that really was the Crux that 

595
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:04,900
drove me into the downtown east 
side of Vancouver from 1993 to 

596
00:36:04,900 --> 00:36:08,200
2013. 
I really never left either to be

597
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:11,500
incarcerated and then once I was
released back out onto the 

598
00:36:11,500 --> 00:36:19,400
streets, so you see a lot and I 
mean, you know, sadly for me the

599
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:24,100
stuff that I had to survive as a
youth was only preparing me for 

600
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:28,000
the biggest battle of my adult 
life which was going to be my 

601
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:32,400
addiction to those substances, 
my undiagnosed learning 

602
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,600
disabilities. 
And the mental health challenges

603
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:39,300
that I was struggling with and 
so, you know, maybe it's you 

604
00:36:39,300 --> 00:36:42,100
looking back. 
It probably prepared me to be 

605
00:36:42,100 --> 00:36:45,000
here today. 
Yeah, with it'll do you took one

606
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,200
for the team and I view you to 
one for the team like you 

607
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,400
absolutely did. 
There's no question. 

608
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,800
And what a, what a 
responsibility. 

609
00:36:52,900 --> 00:36:56,100
Oh my god. 
Did you ever take one for the 

610
00:36:56,100 --> 00:37:00,400
team in, what was the formative 
years of your life? 

611
00:37:01,700 --> 00:37:03,900
Yeah. 
I mean you know and might like I

612
00:37:03,900 --> 00:37:07,200
always say the biggest regret 
that I've ever had was the 

613
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:12,400
damage that I caused communities
or people that ran into me or 

614
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,700
came through my life. 
Or you know there was there's 

615
00:37:15,700 --> 00:37:18,500
those moments where you look 
back and you'll never get to 

616
00:37:18,500 --> 00:37:23,000
apologize to everybody. 
So what I make sure in my new 

617
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:27,900
life is that, you know, I do the
things to change. 

618
00:37:28,500 --> 00:37:34,400
So that people truly know just 
how I'm sorry I am because I 

619
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:38,800
heard a lot of people as well 
and so I don't take that lightly

620
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,100
either. 
And that's that's part of change

621
00:37:41,100 --> 00:37:43,300
where you accept responsibility 
for your past. 

622
00:37:43,300 --> 00:37:46,100
And your past, I always say this
to people is that it doesn't 

623
00:37:46,100 --> 00:37:49,800
Define you, what defines you is 
what you do today. 

624
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,200
And so I don't carry the shame 
of the past. 

625
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:55,800
Yes, it's part of my story. 
Yes, it happened. 

626
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:57,600
And I didn't want to be 
anonymous. 

627
00:37:58,100 --> 00:38:01,300
I didn't want to be part of some
quiet. 

628
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,900
Where you just, you know, know, 
I didn't want anonymity, I 

629
00:38:04,900 --> 00:38:08,400
wanted to be a voice because 
what I see is that there's so 

630
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:12,400
many people out there that were 
struggling and years ago where I

631
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:15,100
just said, you know what, I'll 
just share my story and whoever 

632
00:38:15,100 --> 00:38:20,900
wants to hear it if it helps one
person, then that's fantastic. 

633
00:38:21,900 --> 00:38:25,100
You just never know what you're 
going to expect when you start 

634
00:38:25,100 --> 00:38:27,300
doing that. 
But the amount of people that 

635
00:38:27,300 --> 00:38:30,500
have reached out to me over the 
years and we're talking 

636
00:38:30,700 --> 00:38:35,400
everybody. 
Judges to police that two social

637
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:38,500
workers to counselors two, 
Corrections Officers to 

638
00:38:38,500 --> 00:38:41,900
everybody there just like 
shocked. 

639
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:45,000
I've had gang squad called me 
from the past. 

640
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:52,600
Say hey dude, unbelievable, how 
you change, what a frickin life,

641
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:56,000
you have. 
Like they even them thought, you

642
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:58,800
know, everybody thought this 
guy's going to be dead by the 

643
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:01,400
time he's 30. 
Well, I'm hanging. 

644
00:39:01,500 --> 00:39:04,800
It in at 53 right now. 
Well, you're a cat and, and you 

645
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,900
and to their point In fairness, 
you were dead. 

646
00:39:07,900 --> 00:39:12,400
A few times have half a dozen. 
You got a few lives left. 

647
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:16,800
I just, and I'm not trying to 
make light even a little bit. 

648
00:39:17,100 --> 00:39:21,100
This is just it's an 
unbelievable story and the idea,

649
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:24,200
you know, you talk about people 
caring and and again we talked 

650
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:26,200
about how that's that's you. 
You respect people, you care 

651
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:30,900
about people gab or same thing. 
It shows that you know, 

652
00:39:30,900 --> 00:39:34,400
Corrections Officers teachers, 
you know, getting people in the 

653
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:37,400
gang. 
Whatever the commonality here is

654
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:39,800
that humans actually do have 
that capacity for caring, no 

655
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:42,100
matter what their lot in life, 
no matter where they are in 

656
00:39:42,100 --> 00:39:45,600
life, they have that capacity. 
I've got a good friend, her name

657
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:47,300
is Angie clowry. 
Shout out to Angie. 

658
00:39:47,300 --> 00:39:50,200
She is doing a tremendous amount
of work with the homeless here 

659
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:54,500
in Kelowna advocate in so many 
ways has her head on straight, 

660
00:39:54,500 --> 00:39:56,300
where she can kind of speak both
languages. 

661
00:39:56,300 --> 00:39:58,700
She can kind of speak the 
language of folks on the 

662
00:39:58,700 --> 00:40:01,900
outside, or by law or 
Bureaucrats. 

663
00:40:01,900 --> 00:40:05,800
But then also right on the very 
front lines talking she's 

664
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:09,300
educated me so much on the idea 
and I'm going to get back to 

665
00:40:09,308 --> 00:40:11,600
acceptance here in a second 
because I think it's really 

666
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:16,000
important as humans. 
How we have that that need to be

667
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:19,300
cared for to be accepted. 
Angie has done a tremendous job 

668
00:40:19,300 --> 00:40:24,100
of educating me about the 
culture within the homeless 

669
00:40:24,300 --> 00:40:27,400
cultures I should say it's not 
just one because I mean there's 

670
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,300
all sorts of different groups 
that I think get unfairly 

671
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:32,800
grouped together. 
Are all of them probably 

672
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:35,500
thinking that it's unfair that 
they're grouped with the other 

673
00:40:35,500 --> 00:40:38,600
ones because it's a much more 
complex thing you talk about 

674
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:43,300
acceptance and and you know, you
tried, you know, your early 20s 

675
00:40:43,300 --> 00:40:47,000
to get accepted by Society to 
grind it out to live the life 

676
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:52,000
that was taught to you as a kid 
that what we're supposed to do 

677
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,600
and, and that didn't do it for 
you. 

678
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:58,100
You moved in the dissent 
happened but with that descent. 

679
00:40:58,300 --> 00:41:01,300
My question for you is, was 
there an acceptance? 

680
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:03,300
Since you know, you think about 
East Hastings. 

681
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:07,300
I that's that's the slum area 
Vancouver that when I was a kid,

682
00:41:07,300 --> 00:41:10,500
you talk about 93, igrad in 94, 
I was going to concerts every 

683
00:41:10,500 --> 00:41:13,500
other weekend down in Vancouver,
we would have to cross over. 

684
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:15,100
So we're going from the 
Commodore, Ballroom down to the 

685
00:41:15,100 --> 00:41:18,900
Town, Pump through gas town. 
We had to cross through the 

686
00:41:18,900 --> 00:41:21,800
exact area you're talking about.
I might have bumped shoulders 

687
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:23,800
with you. 
I went through that area so many

688
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:29,400
times and the, you know, I just 
I got goosebumps as you're 

689
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:33,200
talking about this because I 
might have walked by you and I 

690
00:41:33,207 --> 00:41:36,000
just think about all of the 
people that I did walk by going 

691
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:41,200
through that area. 
And my question is is one of the

692
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:44,300
reasons you got into the heavier
drugs, all that kind of stuff, 

693
00:41:44,300 --> 00:41:47,100
okay? 
But were you also accepted by 

694
00:41:47,100 --> 00:41:50,900
this culture down there and win 
and you get a you know we use 

695
00:41:50,900 --> 00:41:55,400
the term street-smart and I'm 
certain that you have a much 

696
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:57,200
different definition of that 
than I would. 

697
00:41:58,100 --> 00:42:01,100
Normal a lot of people would. 
But is that part of it? 

698
00:42:01,100 --> 00:42:03,300
Was it like okay here's a group 
of people that actually accept 

699
00:42:03,300 --> 00:42:06,300
me for who I am here and I like 
that. 

700
00:42:06,300 --> 00:42:08,500
Is there a part of you that 
could say that that's a true 

701
00:42:08,500 --> 00:42:10,400
statement or did you hate every 
minute of it? 

702
00:42:11,300 --> 00:42:15,600
No, I think you're right. 
I think one of the things that I

703
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:19,100
related to for sure was that I 
could see that other people were

704
00:42:19,100 --> 00:42:23,700
struggling with pain and there's
it's comforting to hang around. 

705
00:42:23,700 --> 00:42:27,300
Other people who are struggling 
or trying to find an Avenue to 

706
00:42:27,300 --> 00:42:30,100
heal. 
I mean, that was the one thing 

707
00:42:30,100 --> 00:42:33,900
that kept me connected is that, 
you know, people did care about 

708
00:42:33,908 --> 00:42:36,800
me. 
You know, we may have not shared

709
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:40,000
our struggles openly with each 
other all the time, but there 

710
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:45,800
was moments of You know, I heard
so many stories from, you know 

711
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:49,400
what people had to endure 
through their through their 

712
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:56,500
lives and and the reality is 
that that connects you, it's it,

713
00:42:56,500 --> 00:42:58,900
you're not feel so isolated 
anymore. 

714
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,500
That was one of the first things
when I went to the downtown 

715
00:43:02,500 --> 00:43:07,400
Eastside that I related to was 
pain and you know, oftentimes to

716
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:11,500
what people see down there and 
what's reality is that The 

717
00:43:11,500 --> 00:43:16,000
downtown Eastside has an 
unaddressed poverty issue. 

718
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:20,200
That that's not a drug issue. 
Nope, that's a non address 

719
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:24,300
poverty issue, and same with on 
the streets of Kelowna, that's a

720
00:43:24,300 --> 00:43:27,800
poverty issue. 
And you see what we do is we 

721
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:31,200
scapegoat and blame it all on 
the drugs then we don't address 

722
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:33,400
the poverty issue. 
Well these are those groups I'm 

723
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:36,400
talking about that have been 
kind of lumped together by 

724
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:40,800
everybody except for the people 
in the situation or the educated

725
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:43,300
and the It is a frightening 
frightening, Leaf. 

726
00:43:43,300 --> 00:43:45,200
You amount of people, please 
continue. 

727
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:48,500
Yeah, yeah, still. 
This is a byproduct. 

728
00:43:48,500 --> 00:43:54,500
If you struggle with trauma and 
poverty is trauma, as well, you 

729
00:43:54,500 --> 00:43:58,400
know, drugs become a reasonable 
response when Society sits there

730
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:01,500
and points fingers and doesn't 
do anything, you know, I just 

731
00:44:01,500 --> 00:44:06,200
got, I just got a friend who was
homeless for five years in the 

732
00:44:06,207 --> 00:44:08,400
downtown Eastside. 
She got housing and you know 

733
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:11,100
what she said to me guy 99 
Problems. 

734
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:15,200
Problems and getting housing 
sold 90mm. 

735
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:22,000
Like that when she said that to 
me, I was just like yeah. 

736
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:26,100
And then she's got pictures of 
her phone or her new suites and 

737
00:44:26,100 --> 00:44:29,000
how she had it all set up and 
she throw. 

738
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:32,100
I didn't want to hide out. 
Exactly. 

739
00:44:33,100 --> 00:44:35,900
And, and guess what? 
Like, shame gone. 

740
00:44:38,300 --> 00:44:44,000
Like they don't know, is so 
freaking powerful and the and 

741
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:47,300
her her happiness like to have 
her own blood? 

742
00:44:47,300 --> 00:44:51,300
Like she's got a door that locks
like I got a nice sweet. 

743
00:44:51,300 --> 00:44:54,200
I have a bathroom, I have a 
shower, I have a kitchen. 

744
00:44:54,900 --> 00:44:57,900
I have my own bedroom. 
My kids can come see me now, 

745
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:05,200
man. 
I mean that That, that to me is 

746
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:10,100
the the unaddressed real issues 
behind everything but we'll all 

747
00:45:10,100 --> 00:45:13,900
blame and look at Society be 
like, no, other drug users, 

748
00:45:13,900 --> 00:45:16,400
they're criminals. 
They're they do Prime. 

749
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:22,400
It's like, no it really stems 
from us not offering people 

750
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:25,800
affordable housing, you like, I 
mean, listen, most people in our

751
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:29,300
society are living one paycheck 
to the next now, yep. 

752
00:45:29,500 --> 00:45:32,600
Now right. 
And and and guess what Who who 

753
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:36,900
are struggling with poverty are 
suffering even more and yet 

754
00:45:36,900 --> 00:45:40,400
we're all talking about. 
What about the economy? 

755
00:45:40,500 --> 00:45:42,200
What about Healthcare? 
It's like, yeah. 

756
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:46,800
But what about helping people 
that need help the most instead 

757
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:50,100
of just saying, you know, or 
pointing fingers and creating 

758
00:45:50,100 --> 00:45:53,500
this language, that's very 
stigmatizing and discriminating 

759
00:45:53,500 --> 00:45:56,100
against people. 
You know, last time I check 

760
00:45:56,100 --> 00:46:00,500
poverty, isn't a crime. 
Yeah, but Elites to it like it 

761
00:46:00,500 --> 00:46:03,600
leads to it, like it's Criminal.
Leads to it by the way. 

762
00:46:04,300 --> 00:46:05,100
Sure. 
Yeah. 

763
00:46:05,100 --> 00:46:07,800
Because you know what happens 
when you listening, you look at 

764
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:11,900
any place. 
You look at any place like w, 

765
00:46:11,900 --> 00:46:14,400
Compton, California, San 
Francisco. 

766
00:46:14,900 --> 00:46:16,900
This is what. 
When you don't address poverty, 

767
00:46:16,900 --> 00:46:19,500
guess what? 
That means, people have to take 

768
00:46:19,500 --> 00:46:22,100
matters into their own hands and
that can mean selling you'll 

769
00:46:22,100 --> 00:46:25,100
have to sell drugs, but we'll 
all blame you for doing the 

770
00:46:25,100 --> 00:46:29,400
selling the drugs to people and 
will blame you for that now, but

771
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:31,400
we haven't offered people 
housing. 

772
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,000
We have an offer. 
People employment. 

773
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:37,800
You know, I think the one thing 
that's changed a little bit with

774
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:40,900
covid is that, you know, the 
economy actually needs people to

775
00:46:40,900 --> 00:46:43,700
work now. 
Yeah, I always tell people, hey,

776
00:46:43,700 --> 00:46:46,400
you probably don't even need a 
resume, you can probably walk in

777
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:47,700
and get a job. 
Yep. 

778
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:53,200
You know, I just I think we have
to do more really support people

779
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:56,200
along the Continuum and, and 
change our approaches and 

780
00:46:56,200 --> 00:47:00,200
Society, but like we talked 
about earlier on the show, you 

781
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:02,200
know, people don't want to 
change because that'll impact. 

782
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:05,500
The person's employment or their
lives. 

783
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:08,800
Are you Joe Rogan guy at all 
using a Rogan? 

784
00:47:09,700 --> 00:47:13,300
I don't. 
But, I mean, I watch them on UFC

785
00:47:13,300 --> 00:47:15,200
or yeah. 
And you've heard things. 

786
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:17,900
I'm sure like, I mean, you know,
he's that right now. 

787
00:47:17,900 --> 00:47:22,400
He is currently the the biggest 
broadcaster in the world. 

788
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:25,600
There is no broadcaster that is 
bigger than Joe Rogan and and 

789
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:29,300
one of the interesting things 
I'll really truncate. 

790
00:47:29,300 --> 00:47:32,200
It Joe Rogan just recently moved
from California. 

791
00:47:32,300 --> 00:47:37,000
When you to Austin and and one 
of the reasons why is he didn't 

792
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:40,500
feel he just saw where that you 
know, he's a hockey example, you

793
00:47:40,500 --> 00:47:43,600
know Wayne Gretzky, he he 
wasn't, he wasn't covered where 

794
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:46,700
the puck was going, he wasn't 
comfortable where things are 

795
00:47:46,700 --> 00:47:49,800
happening, the trajectory of 
what's Happening down there when

796
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:50,900
it comes to a lot of these 
issues. 

797
00:47:50,900 --> 00:47:53,900
And so he moved over to Austin. 
And and again, this is the 

798
00:47:53,900 --> 00:47:56,300
universality of what we're 
talking about here. 

799
00:47:56,500 --> 00:47:59,300
Every city in North America is 
starting to deal with this on 

800
00:47:59,300 --> 00:48:02,900
either minor or major scales. 
It is a, as this App that you 

801
00:48:02,900 --> 00:48:07,300
talk about gets gets bigger as 
the people who are living 

802
00:48:07,300 --> 00:48:12,500
paycheck to paycheck. 
Lose a paycheck or two and and 

803
00:48:12,500 --> 00:48:16,000
this shit starts to hit the fan.
It's becoming more and more of a

804
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:19,000
problem. 
And, and so, you know, he talked

805
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:20,400
about what they're doing 
California. 

806
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:22,800
I think about again in the 
States, but, you know, the 

807
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:24,900
private prison system, but also 
some of the things, the 

808
00:48:24,900 --> 00:48:28,300
institutional things in Canada, 
where we spend our money on. 

809
00:48:28,300 --> 00:48:30,800
And, and he talked about in 
Austin, how this is happening 

810
00:48:31,300 --> 00:48:33,400
and the City of Austin just went
out and they spent a shit ton of

811
00:48:33,408 --> 00:48:35,400
money. 
They gave all these people 

812
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:37,700
housing and they bought hotels, 
and they did all these sorts of 

813
00:48:37,700 --> 00:48:40,000
things to give these all of 
these people house. 

814
00:48:40,500 --> 00:48:43,300
And what they've done and this 
is just since in the year and a 

815
00:48:43,308 --> 00:48:45,300
half or whatever that he is 
moved from one place to the 

816
00:48:45,300 --> 00:48:49,000
other and and we need to I'm not
broadcasting this because I'm 

817
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:50,900
trying to throw people over at 
Joe Rogan's podcast. 

818
00:48:50,900 --> 00:48:52,300
I think people are going to my 
podcast. 

819
00:48:52,300 --> 00:48:55,800
I'm saying that because we need 
people like yourself like Joe 

820
00:48:55,900 --> 00:49:00,300
who are seeing successful things
like your friend who you know, 

821
00:49:00,500 --> 00:49:05,300
90 90 of the problem of her 99 
Problems solve with housing. 

822
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:09,400
We need to talk about that more.
I've had a local city councilor 

823
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:13,000
on On our podcast, talking about
the the crime that's happening 

824
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:15,900
downtown because of the housing 
and how to had what to do about 

825
00:49:15,900 --> 00:49:17,400
it. 
This is, these are the 

826
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:19,100
conversations that we need to 
have. 

827
00:49:20,500 --> 00:49:22,800
Because I mean that's that's 
what's going to help solve the 

828
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:25,000
problems, and it's empathy, it 
comes into empathy, whether it's

829
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:28,100
drugs, whether it's poverty, 
whether it's learning 

830
00:49:28,100 --> 00:49:31,800
disabilities, we need to have 
empathy for each other, and, and

831
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:36,100
the almighty dollar needs to 
take a backseat because if we 

832
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:39,200
start with empathy and we start 
solving problems, the almighty 

833
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:42,100
dollar can Made doing that. 
The whole reason candy and her 

834
00:49:42,100 --> 00:49:46,100
team started this thing was 
candy was involved in a in the 

835
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:49,000
charity sectors of the world, 
different charities that she 

836
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:52,400
worked with and she said, you 
know what, there's a lot of 

837
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:56,100
Charities out there that really 
at the end of the day, don't 

838
00:49:56,100 --> 00:49:58,600
there, it's great that they try 
and help manage things and they 

839
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:00,600
help people. 
And they've got their heart in 

840
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:03,200
the right place, but at the end 
of the day, they're not trying 

841
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:07,200
to solve the problem. 
They don't try to put themselves

842
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:08,800
out of business. 
I think that's that's, that's 

843
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:13,400
the that's The thing and you 
know, that's where we need to 

844
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:16,000
realize, okay. 
You know what, social Enterprise

845
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:20,200
might actually be the way to go 
in order to solve some of these 

846
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:21,500
issues. 
So I don't know if that I don't 

847
00:50:21,500 --> 00:50:23,200
know if any of that make sense. 
I kind of went on a tangent 

848
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:27,800
there but but at the end of the 
day you know we can probably I 

849
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:32,100
believe that we can make this 
economically feasible as well as

850
00:50:32,100 --> 00:50:34,100
make the world a better place at
the same time. 

851
00:50:34,100 --> 00:50:39,600
If we just make that the goal, 
yeah, we need to focus on like, 

852
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:43,100
you know, Shelters. 
Don't shelters create. 

853
00:50:43,100 --> 00:50:45,200
The illusion that people are 
being housed. 

854
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:48,400
But shelters aren't homes. 
Yes, it's a step, it's a step in

855
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:51,400
the process. 
Yeah, we need to go to be 

856
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:55,000
solution solution orientated 
with the timeframe of action. 

857
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:58,900
And by the way, of Joe Rogan 
ever wanted me to go on as 

858
00:50:58,900 --> 00:51:01,900
podcast. 
I'd gladly accept to there you 

859
00:51:01,900 --> 00:51:03,700
go. 
Yeah, there you go. 

860
00:51:03,900 --> 00:51:07,900
But I think you know, in our 
society that's the reality is 

861
00:51:07,900 --> 00:51:13,000
that when you You have to start 
giving people homes, and when 

862
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:16,300
you can do that, then people can
get the support, then we can 

863
00:51:16,300 --> 00:51:18,700
build on getting them the 
support for the underlying 

864
00:51:18,700 --> 00:51:23,300
issues, whether that's, you 
know, drug use, or mental 

865
00:51:23,300 --> 00:51:26,800
health, issues, or employment, 
or undiagnosed, learning 

866
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:30,300
disabilities. 
But yeah, if this were, if we're

867
00:51:30,300 --> 00:51:33,400
talking about youth, we look at 
things differently. 

868
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:37,400
But remember people have fallen 
through the cracks and that are 

869
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:40,700
adults, they were one's youth. 
That fell through the Yes. 

870
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:44,300
And we failed them then and 
we're failing them now, and if 

871
00:51:44,300 --> 00:51:48,900
we don't change our approach has
on things, this is going to get 

872
00:51:48,900 --> 00:51:54,100
extremely volatile and worse in 
our society. 

873
00:51:54,900 --> 00:51:58,600
So we have Age first to go back 
to jail for a second. 

874
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:00,800
I would love you on that show. 
The reason I would love you on 

875
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:03,800
that show is because he's talked
about this a lot. 

876
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:08,400
And, and, and, and having 
experts on is what he does. 

877
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:10,700
He famously talked Out how 
stupid he is. 

878
00:52:10,700 --> 00:52:13,000
He wants to have people smarter 
than him, who have been through 

879
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:16,800
things to discuss this. 
And then the other piece of that

880
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:21,300
puzzle is he goes long form. 
Like we're I hate to say we're 

881
00:52:21,300 --> 00:52:23,900
kind of steering towards the end
of this conversation when it 

882
00:52:23,900 --> 00:52:27,100
just feels like it's just 
starting he goes 3 hours with 

883
00:52:27,100 --> 00:52:33,300
folks because because that's 
these aren't soundbite things 

884
00:52:33,300 --> 00:52:36,200
that that can be and I it drives
me crazy. 

885
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:40,300
When I see political campaigns 
both across the border Up here 

886
00:52:40,300 --> 00:52:42,300
in Canada where they talk about 
homeless. 

887
00:52:42,300 --> 00:52:44,300
They talk about drugs, they talk
about these things and they try 

888
00:52:44,300 --> 00:52:46,100
and melt it down into sound 
bites. 

889
00:52:46,300 --> 00:52:48,900
It does not work that may get 
people votes from the people who

890
00:52:48,900 --> 00:52:52,200
actually go and vote and that's 
them playing their little game. 

891
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:56,200
We're talking about life here 
though and and this life is not 

892
00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:59,200
one that can be lived in sound 
bites, it's just not. 

893
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:02,800
And and I love the idea of you 
going there being able to shed 

894
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:05,400
light. 
So let's let's get that campaign

895
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:07,100
going. 
Let's see if we can make that 

896
00:53:07,100 --> 00:53:07,800
happen. 
No guy. 

897
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:11,500
I'm serious with it to like 
You'd be fucking great for it. 

898
00:53:11,500 --> 00:53:15,600
You'd be perfect. 
You need a bigger megaphone to 

899
00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:20,800
do this and I just love what 
you're doing, I want to okay 

900
00:53:20,900 --> 00:53:23,900
again, please come back, please 
come back around. 

901
00:53:23,900 --> 00:53:26,000
He casting we can talk about 
this stuff more. 

902
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:31,400
You know when I told you about, 
we got introduced with the 

903
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:35,100
mutual friend and and I talked 
to you on the phone and I gave 

904
00:53:35,100 --> 00:53:39,700
you probably a 15-minute brain 
dump as to what he changed it as

905
00:53:39,700 --> 00:53:41,900
do. 
Because it's a lot of guys there

906
00:53:41,900 --> 00:53:45,900
who haven't moved into The 
Fringe become marginalized. 

907
00:53:45,900 --> 00:53:48,900
And a lot of those guys who are 
in the middle of things that are

908
00:53:48,900 --> 00:53:52,300
grinding, the Grinders, you 
know, that are just trying to 

909
00:53:52,700 --> 00:53:55,300
make things a little bit better.
I talk a little bit about that 

910
00:53:55,300 --> 00:53:58,000
and I talked about the silent 
crisis of men's mental, health, 

911
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:01,200
and mental Wellness. 
What do you think about what it 

912
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:02,300
is? 
That my wife and her team are 

913
00:54:02,300 --> 00:54:04,400
doing with the app and all of 
that stuff? 

914
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:05,800
We do you think about? 
He changed it? 

915
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:08,200
All right. 
I think it's fantastic. 

916
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:11,500
I mean I think you guys Guys are
onto something for sure. 

917
00:54:11,500 --> 00:54:16,500
And I, I mean, it's already the 
successful people that you've 

918
00:54:16,500 --> 00:54:18,800
had on it already. 
And just the amount of people 

919
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:24,100
that are checking it out, I, 
I've shared it with a bunch of 

920
00:54:24,100 --> 00:54:27,900
my connections as well. 
You know, I think we all have 

921
00:54:27,900 --> 00:54:31,900
collectively do, do a piece of 
it to bring the information to 

922
00:54:31,900 --> 00:54:34,300
people to try to change the 
narrative in our society. 

923
00:54:34,300 --> 00:54:38,200
Because, you know, the bottom 
line is that we care. 

924
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:42,400
And, you know, He cast its we 
care to. 

925
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:45,800
So those are the things when you
when you care more than you, 

926
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:50,100
don't those are the things that 
can change people who don't care

927
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:52,900
as well. 
Because, you know, you have to 

928
00:54:52,900 --> 00:54:55,400
really educate people with 
perspectives. 

929
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:58,500
And I always say one, talk 
really isn't going to change, 

930
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:00,000
you know, somebody's 
perspective. 

931
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:03,900
But however, what I hope to 
always accomplish is just 

932
00:55:03,900 --> 00:55:05,900
planting a couple seeds here and
there. 

933
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:09,800
And when you, when you plant 
those seeds seeds can grow. 

934
00:55:09,900 --> 00:55:15,300
Go and change and it people do 
take time time time does check 

935
00:55:15,300 --> 00:55:18,700
help change as well. 
Change may happen in a second 

936
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:22,800
but boy oh boy. 
The timing of change is one 

937
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:28,500
thing that often takes time for 
people to figure it out and once

938
00:55:28,500 --> 00:55:32,200
the pieces are there, Change can
happen. 

939
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:35,300
I love you. 
Planting seeds with our youth, 

940
00:55:35,300 --> 00:55:36,800
man. 
This is, this is where I think 

941
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:39,400
there's Silver. 
Bullet is is when you go in the 

942
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:44,900
more schools, the more colleges,
the more groups of people who 

943
00:55:44,900 --> 00:55:48,000
are, who are interested that you
go, and you plant these seeds 

944
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:50,200
to, that's how we change things.
That's you going in with a 

945
00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:54,500
fucking crop duster and and, and
getting a lot of other voices 

946
00:55:54,500 --> 00:55:59,700
there to do this and I 
appreciate so much you doing 

947
00:55:59,700 --> 00:56:03,100
that. 
At and you taking you know you 

948
00:56:03,100 --> 00:56:06,200
got the nine lives, six of them 
are gone and now you're you're 

949
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:10,800
taking number 7 and lucky number
7 and you're going crazy with it

950
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:13,500
in such a good way, you are 
changing the world. 

951
00:56:14,500 --> 00:56:16,500
I guy, I appreciate the hell out
of you. 

952
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:19,400
What if people want to come find
you? 

953
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:23,200
What do you have coming up? 
I want to plug anything and 

954
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:25,200
everything that you're doing. 
I want to get us to start doing 

955
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:27,300
that in the app, as the 
development starts to expand and

956
00:56:27,300 --> 00:56:28,800
all that we're still in our 
infancy. 

957
00:56:28,900 --> 00:56:31,900
You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet with 
the And our friends that have 

958
00:56:31,900 --> 00:56:34,800
come along with us from the very
beginning and recognizes from 

959
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:38,000
the beginning, we're going to 
broadcast them like crazy but 

960
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:40,000
for now we've got this podcast 
to do it. 

961
00:56:40,100 --> 00:56:42,400
What are the ways that people 
can find? 

962
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:44,700
You social media, where are you 
active? 

963
00:56:44,700 --> 00:56:47,600
Where do you spend your time? 
And if people want to connect 

964
00:56:48,100 --> 00:56:50,800
with your message or you 
yourself, what's the best way to

965
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:52,500
do it? 
Yeah, you can. 

966
00:56:52,500 --> 00:56:57,400
I mean I'm on Twitter at guy 
fella Cella, Instagram is guy 

967
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:01,200
fell until the public and 
obviously my Website is Guy 

968
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:05,500
fella Cella.com. 
You can reach out to me on any 

969
00:57:05,500 --> 00:57:10,000
of those platforms. 
And I always, I always say this 

970
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:13,600
to people to the truth is that 
if anybody takes the time to 

971
00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:16,700
reach out, I do take take that 
seriously. 

972
00:57:16,700 --> 00:57:19,600
And I take the time to respond 
and it's me personally that 

973
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:26,400
response it's not some you know 
assistant or if I I know how 

974
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:30,000
hard it is for for people to 
reach out. 

975
00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:35,000
And and so I'm very mindful that
a lot of people actually say, 

976
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:38,800
holy smokes, you sent message 
back and I'm like, oh yeah, that

977
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:42,100
that's how it works. 
You know, you send me a message 

978
00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:47,300
asking for advice and I'll, if I
can't help you, then I'll still 

979
00:57:47,300 --> 00:57:52,400
respond and try to shift you to 
an organization that can. 

980
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:56,500
So yeah, that's that's where I'm
at, you know, looking forward to

981
00:57:57,100 --> 00:57:59,000
finishing off the rest of the 
year. 

982
00:57:59,300 --> 00:58:03,300
I have a few If I'm in a mental 
health conference in Whitehorse 

983
00:58:03,500 --> 00:58:09,900
and September, I'm in Toronto in
October, I'm doing a virtual 

984
00:58:09,900 --> 00:58:12,600
event in New York City in 
October as well. 

985
00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:15,100
And so yeah. 
Just you know, just trying to 

986
00:58:15,100 --> 00:58:18,300
share the message of Hope to 
people that you know people can 

987
00:58:18,300 --> 00:58:22,900
change when they are supported 
and and that we can change to to

988
00:58:22,900 --> 00:58:26,400
help people. 
So yeah, just try to carry that 

989
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:32,200
through to people but really 
thanks so much for Me on and I 

990
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:35,800
wish you guys continued success 
and I am I am. 

991
00:58:36,600 --> 00:58:41,000
I will gladly accept right now 
that anytime you want to reach 

992
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:44,400
out for me to come back. 
I'd be happy to chat with Mike. 

993
00:58:44,900 --> 00:58:46,800
I can't, I can't thank you 
enough for that. 

994
00:58:47,500 --> 00:58:52,400
Yeah, it's going to be the, the 
visions that we have, you know, 

995
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:55,500
you know, the idea of a 
convention he Khan and you have 

996
00:58:55,500 --> 00:58:59,100
a stadium full of of guys or 
people who care about guys in 

997
00:58:59,100 --> 00:59:01,600
that Stadium. 
It's speakers and insights and 

998
00:59:01,600 --> 00:59:03,100
tools and all these sorts of 
things. 

999
00:59:03,100 --> 00:59:07,500
I mean, the visions that the 
team has is our our massive 

1000
00:59:07,500 --> 00:59:11,800
world changing and and you're 
speaking just so, you know, when

1001
00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:13,900
that happens, you're going to be
one of those guys, I'm going to 

1002
00:59:13,900 --> 00:59:16,200
finish the question with a 
softball. 

1003
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:19,800
I'm going to literally love a 
softball right across the plate 

1004
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:24,800
to you because I know the answer
but coming from you not just 

1005
00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:28,600
because your story not just 
because of where you're going 

1006
00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:32,800
with your Like all the Public's 
to things that you're doing but 

1007
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:36,400
also because you work for and we
bring it back again, you work 

1008
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:38,900
for a health authority. 
You actually work for the 

1009
00:59:38,900 --> 00:59:44,400
organizations that deal with 
this with Healthcare, which is a

1010
00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:47,400
hot-button issue and has been 
from the beginning of time as 

1011
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:50,200
our country has evolved and 
grown and we've chosen to go, 

1012
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:54,800
you know, with with universal 
versus versus private and all of

1013
00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:57,800
that stuff there, you actually 
are a cog in the machine sir. 

1014
00:59:57,800 --> 00:59:59,900
So I'm going to ask you this 
question, this soft. 

1015
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:03,500
Ball across the plate. 
Are you so many people out? 

1016
01:00:03,500 --> 01:00:06,600
There are pessimistic? 
Are you a pessimist about the 

1017
01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:08,900
future about how we can we can 
improve things and change. 

1018
01:00:08,900 --> 01:00:10,200
Things. 
Are you optimistic that we can 

1019
01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:14,100
do this? 
I'm always optimistic, you know,

1020
01:00:14,100 --> 01:00:18,200
hope is the anchor to the soul, 
my friend and without having 

1021
01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:20,600
hope you're not going to have 
much through life. 

1022
01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:26,200
So I am definitely an optimist 
and a realist. 

1023
01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:31,400
And you know like I said That's 
what that's what. 

1024
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:36,800
That's what really drives me is 
that I believe I believe and you

1025
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:39,400
know what? 
It took me a long time because 

1026
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:44,300
others believe that I believe to
and that's the that's the thing 

1027
01:00:44,300 --> 01:00:48,500
that's the message that I'll 
continue to carry is that I'll 

1028
01:00:48,500 --> 01:00:55,900
just believe and and until you 
believe and we push together we 

1029
01:00:55,900 --> 01:00:59,500
will change things and it's 
happening a lot sooner than a 

1030
01:00:59,500 --> 01:01:03,300
lot of People think so don't 
ever give up, keep trying 

1031
01:01:03,300 --> 01:01:06,000
celebrate that trying because 
that's what we have man. 

1032
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:10,500
We got to celebrate trying. 
And I said it better myself and 

1033
01:01:10,500 --> 01:01:11,700
we're going to end it right 
there. 

1034
01:01:12,500 --> 01:01:15,400
Guy from the bottom of all of 
our hearts. 

1035
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:18,300
Thank you so much for being who 
you are and thank you for coming

1036
01:01:18,300 --> 01:01:19,300
on. 
He cast today. 

1037
01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:22,500
That's it, they end. 
So they end so quickly. 

1038
01:01:22,500 --> 01:01:24,800
Again I talked about them being 
the best part of my week. 

1039
01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:28,100
They are. 
I love doing this so much and 

1040
01:01:28,200 --> 01:01:30,600
conversations like this 
especially and especially the 

1041
01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:33,300
ones that end with a message of 
Hope like that. 

1042
01:01:33,700 --> 01:01:36,800
We want to change the world, 
we're all doing our part from 

1043
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:39,600
our vantage, point from our 
Active where all the shining 

1044
01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:43,200
Diamond has many many, many 
Vantage points that come from as

1045
01:01:43,200 --> 01:01:47,200
many angles that come off of it?
And, and guy is a phenomenal 

1046
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:49,300
example, he's probably the very 
top of the diamond, he's one of 

1047
01:01:49,308 --> 01:01:52,300
the bigger services on that 
diamond, that's out there and we

1048
01:01:52,300 --> 01:01:56,300
just appreciate him so much. 
My name is Mike Chism, that's 

1049
01:01:56,300 --> 01:01:58,700
another episode of he cast 
again. 

1050
01:01:58,700 --> 01:02:01,100
If you if you wouldn't mind, 
please going and downloading the

1051
01:02:01,100 --> 01:02:03,900
app sharing it, same thing with 
the podcast, like share, 

1052
01:02:03,900 --> 01:02:06,500
subscribe, all of that. 
I cannot wait for a time where I

1053
01:02:06,508 --> 01:02:07,900
don't have to say that message 
anymore. 

1054
01:02:08,100 --> 01:02:10,400
Or when the overlords if he 
changed, it looked down on me 

1055
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:12,900
and say, good job. 
Faithful servant. 

1056
01:02:12,900 --> 01:02:14,700
We now have the numbers that we 
need that. 

1057
01:02:14,700 --> 01:02:17,100
We're looking for. 
You don't have to shill liking 

1058
01:02:17,100 --> 01:02:18,900
sharing subscribing. 
We're not there yet. 

1059
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:21,400
I can't wait for that time. 
Please do that. 

1060
01:02:22,100 --> 01:02:24,600
And you know what? 
If you listen to this message, 

1061
01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:27,400
you know a guy that's 
struggling. 

1062
01:02:27,400 --> 01:02:29,500
If you've listened to this 
episode and you're this far deep

1063
01:02:29,500 --> 01:02:31,600
in and you're still listening 
first off. 

1064
01:02:31,600 --> 01:02:33,800
Congratulations well done. 
That's an exercise in 

1065
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:35,100
persistence. 
Right there, my friend. 

1066
01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:37,900
I'm s. 
You know, a guy that struggle 

1067
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:41,200
And whatever they're struggling 
with whether it's actual 

1068
01:02:41,200 --> 01:02:45,900
substances or the similar 
struggles that we go through. 

1069
01:02:45,900 --> 01:02:51,600
That have the same effects, the 
shame, the the loss of hope, all

1070
01:02:51,600 --> 01:02:54,100
of that stuff share this episode
with them. 

1071
01:02:54,700 --> 01:02:57,500
There's a guy in your life that 
needs to hear guy. 

1072
01:02:58,100 --> 01:03:00,800
Wow, there's a man in your life 
that needs to hear guy that's a 

1073
01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:03,600
better way. 
Thank you very much for all of 

1074
01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:06,800
your time, for everything. 
For all of the support, my name 

1075
01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:08,800
is Mike Schism. 
That's another episode of he 

1076
01:03:08,800 --> 01:03:11,600
cast the official podcast of he 
changed it. 

1077
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:13,000
Go change something.