1 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:11,360 Welcome to Heat Cast, the official podcast of Heat 2 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:13,360 Changed. As always, I am Mike Chisholm. 3 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:14,760 As always, I'm excited to be here. 4 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:17,080 I'm a broken record with that introduction. 5 00:00:17,080 --> 00:00:20,760 Yet guess what? It's true every single time. 6 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:22,960 If you haven't downloaded the Heat Changed It app, what are 7 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:25,080 you waiting for? Please download it right now. 8 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:29,120 Whatever your App Store denomination is, whether it's 9 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:31,640 Apple or Google, it is available. 10 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:32,479 Search. He changed it. 11 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:33,560 You will find that he changed it. 12 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:35,680 App Download it. Check it out. 13 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:40,520 Watch the evolution of a movement of a of a literally 14 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:44,560 movement to change the world. That's what we want to do. 15 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:47,720 We want to have a resource available for men, an 16 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:52,400 unprecedented resource that can literally change somebody's life 17 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:56,200 and thus the dominoes, the ripples, whatever analogy you 18 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:58,600 want to use, that will happen as a result. 19 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:03,680 Also, if you wouldn't mind subscribing to sharing this 20 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:06,760 particular broadcast he cast, we would love that. 21 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:08,640 That he changed it. Overlords love their metrics and 22 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:12,200 we just would very much appreciate anybody who would 23 00:01:12,960 --> 00:01:16,520 take what we're doing and further it for us, whether it is 24 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:21,200 in the neighborhood of comments, likes, shares, all of that crap. 25 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:24,600 Thank you very much for helping get us to where we are right 26 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:28,000 now. It's extremely exciting to be 27 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:30,800 where we are and to watch this thing growing and you ain't seen 28 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:32,040 nothing yet. Lots of good stuff. 29 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:34,000 As Johnny Carson like to say, more to come. 30 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:37,920 Anyway, today's episode is a really special one. 31 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:42,320 I am, I'm I'm very excited that this gentleman has has come here 32 00:01:42,320 --> 00:01:46,240 and and and said that he would share his story because it's a 33 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:48,760 crazy story. It's one that I'll tell you this 34 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:53,560 we've had a lot of husbands who have come to us behind the 35 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:58,160 scenes who have gone through things in their in their lives, 36 00:01:58,160 --> 00:01:59,800 in their marriages and their relationships. 37 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:04,200 A lot of guys in their relationships have have burdened 38 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:07,640 some pretty major shit. Some things in the background 39 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:11,840 that don't come forward especially because of the 40 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:16,400 stigmas that we have in our in our in our culture about abuse 41 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:21,000 about behaviors. You know that that that that we 42 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:25,400 sometimes go through in the dynamics of relationships and 43 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:28,840 and there's been a lot of guys who have come to us flat out 44 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:32,560 abused and and and not willing to tell the story publicly but 45 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:36,200 needing help in that. We've actually got a guy here 46 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:38,520 who's willing to talk about some of the things that he went 47 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:42,360 through in a previous relationship that we're just 48 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:45,600 really grateful because of how much learning and how much has 49 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:48,440 come from that. As most of you know if you've 50 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:52,040 watched any or listened to any episodes of he cast before now 51 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:54,720 you know I'm a huge music fan massive massive massive music 52 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:59,440 fan music is like it's it's it's just there's an authenticity in 53 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:01,320 music. There is a I'll say when I'm at 54 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:03,920 the right rock concert, the right concert, whatever it might 55 00:03:03,920 --> 00:03:05,680 be. It's almost like a religious 56 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:07,480 experience. I love music. 57 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:12,120 I love the language of music and we've got a local band where 58 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:14,200 we're from in the region of Canada that we're from called 59 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:17,360 Madhouse Tactics. We went and saw them not too 60 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:21,200 long ago and and and one of the players in that band, his name 61 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:23,800 is Miles Maletto. Miles and my wife actually 62 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:27,120 connected right as he cast, as the infancy of of he cast. 63 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:28,800 We, I don't even know if we were, if we're putting out 64 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:30,800 episodes at that point if we were just planning on it. 65 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:34,120 And he told her a story that knocked her socks off from a he 66 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:36,760 changed it perspective but also from a human perspective. 67 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:41,800 And I am we've been waiting for this to kind of happen for all 68 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:45,800 the the the the, the things to align to make this happen. 69 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:49,880 And Miles has finally made it into the He Cast studio and 70 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:53,280 we're really grateful for that. An amazing guy, an amazing 71 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,880 musician with an amazing story and he's willing to open up 72 00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:58,200 about that. Miles, thank you so much for 73 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:00,320 taking time to be part of this year. 74 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:02,720 Thanks for having me. I want to set the table a little 75 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:05,520 bit scale of one to 10. Your life right now. 76 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:08,920 What would you say your life is right now in this day at the 77 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:11,920 date of this broadcast? I'm going to say it's a 10. 78 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:14,320 It's right up there. Pretty, pretty happy where I'm 79 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:15,920 at. Lots of good stuff going on. 80 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:19,600 You know what? It's so good I don't have enough 81 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,440 time to do it all. I wish I had more so I could 82 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:26,440 keep doing all these things. Work life is good. 83 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:28,960 Family life is good. You've got your the, the band, 84 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:32,120 which is just this project that just injects all sorts of good 85 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:34,240 things into those things and the rest of your life. 86 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:36,160 I'm not. I'm not overstating when I say 87 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:39,200 those things. No, no. 10 Out of 10 Life Right 88 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:41,640 now, life is, you know what? Not perfect? 89 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:42,640 Of course not. Of course. 90 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:44,320 You know what? There's there's lots of things 91 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:47,400 that could probably go better. It could be a lot more rich, it 92 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:48,920 could be a lot more famous, you know? 93 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:51,200 Sure. As far as I am and from my 94 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:53,440 well-being, I'm in a good spot. OK. 95 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,760 We're starting there and we're and we're and and believe it or 96 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,440 not to the the folks who are watching and listening to this, 97 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:03,040 we're going to finish there too. But there's some stuff in the 98 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:04,200 middle that we're going to talk about today. 99 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,640 But I think it's really important to talk about how how 100 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:10,280 satisfied and how how how life, how much you're living life in 101 00:05:10,280 --> 00:05:13,640 color right now and and and how good things are. 102 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:20,000 It's great to talk about that. Now, that being said, went 103 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:23,880 through a lot of stuff to get to this place, and I don't want to 104 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:26,840 put words in your mouth, but if you didn't go through that 105 00:05:26,840 --> 00:05:29,200 stuff, this place might not be. You might not be living the 106 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:31,360 vibrant, colorful life that you're living right now because 107 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:32,760 of the things that you learned along the way. 108 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:35,520 Guaranteed I wouldn't be OK. Guaranteed OK. 109 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:39,520 It's all from what I learned. OK, what you learned and you 110 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,960 learned We're Canadian. A metric shit ton of things 111 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:45,320 going through what you went through. 112 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:50,720 You lived a lot of life. I, I, I want to truncate a 113 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:52,720 little bit. We're going to talk about 114 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:54,440 because there's tough relationships, that there's a 115 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:56,160 lot of guys out there who are suffering in tough 116 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:57,600 relationships. You've talked to some of these 117 00:05:57,600 --> 00:05:59,840 guys since going through what you've gone through. 118 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:02,760 When you found out what Candy and her team are building, 119 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:08,280 immediate attachment, what I mean and I mean I, I, I think 120 00:06:08,280 --> 00:06:10,320 I'm, I'm preaching to the choir being a little bit obvious here. 121 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:13,800 But when you found out what that he changed, it was being 122 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:16,400 formulated and and and going to be unleashed to the world. 123 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:18,840 Initial reactions. What was it about? 124 00:06:18,840 --> 00:06:21,240 He changed it that connected you to what we're doing here? 125 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:25,320 Yeah, honestly, it was When I met Candace, it was, I was 126 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:27,880 invited on a radio show. That was the first time I ever 127 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:32,200 told my story. And just hearing the reaction of 128 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:35,280 the people, the other guests that were on the show, and 129 00:06:35,280 --> 00:06:37,280 Candace's reaction, it was like, you know what? 130 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:41,800 I need to kind of broaden my message if I can. 131 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:44,800 I mean, I was still still struggling with a lot of things 132 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:48,480 myself trying to refine it. I still struggle all the time, 133 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:50,760 but I just get better at recovering. 134 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:55,720 So yeah, I guess that was basically where it. 135 00:06:56,560 --> 00:07:01,640 And the idea of a of an app or a resource for men, Needless to 136 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:04,040 say, sorely needed, I mean, I mean. 137 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:09,160 Yeah, I mean if if somebody can go there and see examples. 138 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:12,960 I mean since it's since it's available now, I you know, I'll 139 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:15,800 check it and see you know what other people are are going 140 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:19,920 through and how they recovered. Yeah, I, I, I want to get to the 141 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:22,120 story because, I mean, I don't want to bury the lead here. 142 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:25,520 You know, some of these, some of these these podcasts that we do, 143 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:26,720 you know, they kind of go all over the place. 144 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,800 This one here has a beginning, a middle and an end that is still 145 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:32,760 ending in in in in good ways. And it's a happy ending right 146 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:36,600 now. You married your high school 147 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:38,360 sweetheart. Needless to say is that, is 148 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:39,560 that, is that a fair statement? Yeah. 149 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:45,840 How old were you 2 when you met? So I was about 13 years old. 150 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:48,880 I'd met her before that, but we kind of were just interested in 151 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:51,280 each other at 13, not 13. It was a little young. 152 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:53,080 Where were you? What city? 153 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:57,120 What in Summerland, BC in Western Canada? 154 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:01,120 Small town, very small town with a couple you know mid sized 155 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:05,320 towns surrounding it but but small town life You meet at 13 156 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:10,600 and and you had gone through some stuff before then you know 157 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:13,680 now kind of looking back at the at the the trail of bread crumbs 158 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:17,080 that led to where you are now and knowing some of the things 159 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:20,240 that you know but you know PTSD and things things like that 160 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:25,160 you'd gone through some stuff at that point connected with her in 161 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:28,840 childhood and you guys just kind of stayed together married 162 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:31,960 before 20 right. Yeah, I was. 163 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:34,440 I was 19. I think she was 20. 164 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,039 I was 19. OK, so, so right around, you 165 00:08:37,039 --> 00:08:40,799 know, formative years, you know, a small town. 166 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:47,440 Needless to say not a lot of resources or access or well even 167 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:50,960 incentive for for couples to be into a fine functioning 168 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:54,840 relationship high functioning relationship and and and this is 169 00:08:54,840 --> 00:09:00,280 a story that many people have heard were were you 2 170 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:02,400 dysfunctional to at the beginning? 171 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:04,440 Was it was it always there? Was it just habits that had 172 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:13,560 developed? It it was there was a it was a 173 00:09:13,560 --> 00:09:14,960 little dysfunctional. Yep. 174 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:19,680 There was a religion issue. I'm not from a religious family. 175 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,720 My my mom is the complete opposite. 176 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:28,840 And she was trying to have a spiritual life and I conflicted 177 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:31,400 with that. So that created a lot of issues. 178 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:33,600 But I was very open because it was all new to me. 179 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:38,520 So there was a little bit of chaos in in trying to do the 180 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:42,680 right thing, but, you know, being young and naive and 181 00:09:43,560 --> 00:09:45,480 letting emotions take over. Yeah. 182 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:47,960 Was there a lot of? We're in love. 183 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:50,440 Love's going to conquer all. We're not too young. 184 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:51,600 We're, you know, we're going to do this. 185 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:55,840 Was there any of that or was it was it pretty smooth sailing in 186 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:57,960 the sense of doors just opening for you to say, yeah, let's get 187 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:00,040 married at this age? No, no, it was not. 188 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,080 It was. It was definitely a ride and it 189 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:08,000 was on and off. In fact, I think it was the same 190 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:10,960 year, same year we got married. We weren't together for four 191 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:12,160 months. OK. 192 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:15,800 So she had gone through something which kind of brought 193 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:19,120 me back into the picture to try and you know, I felt bad for her 194 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:22,240 and we kind of rekindled at that point. 195 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,720 But it was not a romantic thing. It was not a mature relationship 196 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:29,320 in any by any means, and getting married young was probably the 197 00:10:29,680 --> 00:10:32,520 was not a good idea. Well and we hear we've heard 198 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:34,880 life coaches in in different I've talked to all sorts of 199 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:38,520 people since going on this journey with he changed it even 200 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:41,480 in my limited role here and talking about how guys many 201 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:44,240 times have that for lack of a better term that white knight 202 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:48,120 mentality that we want to save. We want to, we want to help. 203 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:50,720 Was any of that there for you when you saw she was going 204 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:53,120 through that time and and and and you just? 205 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:56,840 Wanted to, I don't think so. I was very immature, you know, I 206 00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:01,640 had, I had a difficult upbringing with with my parents 207 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:06,960 that I didn't see my dad a lot. He worked quite a bit and then 208 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:10,720 they separated and I was just left with my mom and my she was 209 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:17,400 a difficult one to be raised by. So there was a familiarity in in 210 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:21,880 this new relationship but I was just not mature enough to I I 211 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:24,960 was silly you know always trying to be the funny guy. 212 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:30,280 So I I don't know. I was I think it was probably it 213 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:33,840 was just not not a a responsible way to to get into a 214 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:35,040 relationship. You were a kid. 215 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:36,640 I was a kid. You were a kid. 216 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:38,280 I was a kid for a long time after that too. 217 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:41,520 Yeah, and then, but then suddenly forced to start doing 218 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:43,120 some adulting. I had to do adulting. 219 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,120 I was a kid with kids. And that's and that started 220 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:49,600 early on as well and that was A and I mean that's the rock and 221 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:51,640 the hard place, right. You know we, we, we talk about 222 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:55,880 all this, these needs for education about you know 223 00:11:56,360 --> 00:12:00,240 pregnancy and all that kind of stuff, you know and people turn 224 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:01,320 it into political issues and all that. 225 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:02,800 Let's just look at the human issue. 226 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:08,600 Tough choices when pregnancy shows up, when you're that age, 227 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:10,920 when you're not. Even she was ready to have kids 228 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:15,120 when we were 18, right? And I just, I tried to start a 229 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:17,680 business when I was 19. We had gotten married and two 230 00:12:17,680 --> 00:12:21,280 months later moved to Prince George, you know, 8 hours away. 231 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:24,040 I didn't know anybody or anything and tried to start a 232 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:25,560 business. Becoming an entrepreneur at that 233 00:12:25,560 --> 00:12:27,040 time as well, OK? Yeah. 234 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:29,600 Yeah, lot of lot of big learning curves for you at a young age. 235 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:31,000 Miles. Yeah, exactly. 236 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,600 And so she still, at that point wanted to have kids. 237 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:40,360 And and I I don't understand it, but it wasn't until couple years 238 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:41,800 later that I was like, OK, you know what? 239 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:43,360 I think I could do this. Wow. 240 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:48,080 Yeah. Candace, to this day talks about 241 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:49,520 your story. It's been like 2 years since 242 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:52,280 she's heard it. Let's move into it. 243 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:56,760 Let's just, you know so so you're married for a few years. 244 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:00,720 Were the problems there already? Were they there right from the 245 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:01,000 get? Go. 246 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:02,520 They were there before we got married. 247 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:07,640 There was a little bit of of difficult circumstances 248 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:10,000 regarding. Hi, I I came. 249 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:12,160 I came to visit her. This is before we were even 250 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:14,360 living together. I came to visit her. 251 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:17,160 She's in the carport and she's slamming a rock into her head 252 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:19,680 and I don't know if it was an attention thing. 253 00:13:19,680 --> 00:13:22,880 When I think back, I'm like, I wonder if it was attention or or 254 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:25,960 what the deal was. But that was like, it didn't 255 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:28,520 really open my eyes. I wish I was mature enough to 256 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:31,320 say, hey, this is a red flag, right? 257 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:37,800 So that created a lot of issues, you know, as far as a mental 258 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:43,640 stability went, so. Red flags get clouded by emotion 259 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:46,080 very easily. It's so easy when you don't have 260 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:48,640 emotion involved and you're just looking at stone cold logic as 261 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:51,960 to oh this isn't good or whatever, but then emotions 262 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:54,640 cloud that shit, don't they? Yeah. 263 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:56,320 And I I guess it was. It was. 264 00:13:56,560 --> 00:13:58,640 I had made this decision. So now I'm just going to move 265 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:00,280 forward. I'm just going to rule with it. 266 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:02,520 We got married. I'm going to do the best I can 267 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:05,400 to be married, committed to it. Exactly. 268 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:08,800 This, this is the bed we made. We're going to, we're, you know, 269 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:10,640 we're going to make this bed. We're going to, you know, figure 270 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:12,120 it out. We had a kid. 271 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:16,040 I'm going to be the best dad I can or try to be, but it was 272 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:20,360 difficult because there was a lot of anger on her side 273 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:23,240 towards. I did not just towards me, but 274 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:28,160 she's just anger within her. So it was it was hard to find 275 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:33,480 that happy medium to be a great, loving dad and keep her happy. 276 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:36,160 Right. Because now I'm, you know, away 277 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:39,080 from everybody and everything I know with a new. 278 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:41,080 Life. You're isolated in a new place. 279 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:43,520 Why Prince George? It was just where the 280 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:50,520 opportunity I was working for a company here in well in 281 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:53,360 Summerland and they were opening a new franchise. 282 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:55,240 OK, I got. You and they were opening it in 283 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:57,200 Prince George and I had that opportunity. 284 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:59,520 There was no buy in. Perfect size, no money. 285 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:01,360 I'm 19. Years old, I got no money. 286 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:04,200 Yeah, and a lot of responsibility already. 287 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:06,400 So. So, yeah, no, I I feel you. 288 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:13,920 OK. So one thing I want to make sure 289 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:16,200 we precurse before we start moving down this path a little 290 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:19,440 bit is is. And again, I, I, I can say this 291 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:22,840 with full authenticity behind people's backs. 292 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:24,680 You are still extremely respectful. 293 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:27,680 You're extremely respectful of all involved here. 294 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:30,320 You're, you're, you're basically, you've got a story 295 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:32,760 about this is what happened. This is how I dealt with it. 296 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:35,000 This is where I was. This is where I am now. 297 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:38,600 In no way are we trying to disrespect in any way, shape or 298 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:41,040 form anybody. I'm not putting words in your 299 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:43,400 mouth by saying that, right? No, no. 300 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:48,680 You know, there's been multiple times when I've had to tell my 301 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:52,240 story and I I don't want to ruffle any feathers any more 302 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:54,560 than they already are. But the story needs to be told, 303 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:56,160 and there's just some things you can't avoid. 304 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:58,720 Yes. But at the same time, like you 305 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:00,560 said, be respectful about it. We're not. 306 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:03,760 I'm not trying to create a war. No, I'm just trying to help 307 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:04,800 where I can. OK. 308 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:07,040 And that's and that's, that's who you are and that's what you 309 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:08,480 that's what we're doing here today. 310 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:10,480 That's what we want to do here today. 311 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:12,200 So. So let's start moving into it a 312 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:14,760 little bit. As the marriage progressed, you 313 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:16,960 know, you see, yeah, things especially with hindsight now 314 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:18,600 being able to look back and say, Oh yeah, there was a warning 315 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:20,480 sign right there. Didn't see it at the time. 316 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:23,640 And isn't that life right. But isn't it nice when we can 317 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:27,120 take a look at some of these things in life and and and 318 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,960 regard them, record them, regard them, and so we can avoid 319 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:33,560 potholes in the future? Speed bumps, whatever you want 320 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:37,160 to call it, giant chasms of doom. 321 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:40,920 We can avoid those things and and I think it's safe to say 322 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:42,360 you've got a whole bunch of those. 323 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:45,080 When was it that it really started to get bad in the 324 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:51,160 relationship? I guess it was then. 325 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:53,520 It was when we had moved away, we had moved away. 326 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:58,760 We had had a child and it was it was tough to be that young and 327 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:05,440 not have a lot of family and friends to help out with raising 328 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:06,319 kid. We didn't know what we were 329 00:17:06,319 --> 00:17:10,000 doing. You know the Internet wasn't 330 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:16,040 readily available like it is now and it was tough. 331 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:21,960 It was tough in in trying to keep my family as balanced as it 332 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:26,839 could and still dealing with my own past from my upbringing. 333 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:31,280 It was hard. Give us an example of something 334 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:33,800 that's hard, like, is it? Is it because of confrontations 335 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:35,880 that would happen, traumatic events that would happen? 336 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:38,840 What are we talking? About so back. 337 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:44,120 So we have a We bring home a brand new baby and he won't stop 338 00:17:44,120 --> 00:17:46,040 crying, right? Of course, you know, it's a 339 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:48,240 brand new baby. He won't stop crying. 340 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:52,200 Well, she's getting angry. It's making me angry. 341 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:54,320 I'm getting angry. And I'm yelling at this little 342 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:58,240 baby at 2:00 in the morning because I, you know, we can't 343 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:00,760 sleep. And this is all new and I don't 344 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:03,280 know what else to do. And I'm yelling at this baby. 345 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:12,640 So that was kind of a precursor to how the rest of the 346 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:15,440 relationship was going to go. There was a lot of anger. 347 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:22,280 There was a lot of yelling and it started to get a little bit 348 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:25,680 more physical. After that. 349 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:30,400 Any situation, any problem that came was my fault. 350 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:35,400 It didn't matter. Didn't matter if the car, if the 351 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:40,840 car breaks down, it was something I did so or you know, 352 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:46,120 yeah, a car accident. Well, it's my fault. 353 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,840 Blamed for everything. Blamed for everything, yeah. 354 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:53,720 That's hard. Yeah. 355 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:59,760 Was there Was there fear or trepidation to like, come home? 356 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:01,280 Like, what am I coming home to today? 357 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:05,040 Were there were there moments of bliss as well that tempered 358 00:19:05,120 --> 00:19:08,680 this, or was it constant? Yeah, it was. 359 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:10,480 It was. I did not like being home. 360 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:14,280 I did not like it, but I spent. I spent a lot of time at the 361 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:16,880 arcade back then at. The arcade At the arcade, what 362 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:18,400 was your game of choice? It. 363 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:20,720 Was Street Fighter two guy. It was virtual fighter. 364 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:22,480 Virtual fighter, Virtual fighter guy, too. 365 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:25,280 Wolf Wolf was my guy. Yeah. 366 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:28,840 You played a lot. OK, so, so escape. 367 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:30,480 There was some escape. There was a lot of escape. 368 00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:34,840 And and that's I I think escape is I talk about self-care all 369 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:36,400 the time. We talk about this because you 370 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:38,800 know when you're going through something it's very important. 371 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:40,440 self-care is extremely important, right. 372 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:42,240 You got to stay hydrated so you can hydrate others. 373 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:44,440 If you become a dry sponge, you can't do it anymore. 374 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:46,760 That's the analogy we we we've been using lately. 375 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:50,000 This is different. This isn't just self-care. 376 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:52,200 This was something different. This was not self-care. 377 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:57,040 This was a Band-Aid, you know, it was, it was a little bit of 378 00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,280 relief for the moment. But then I knew I was going 379 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:03,240 home. I was going home to, you know, 380 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:09,440 not measuring up anymore, not being good enough at anything, 381 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:13,080 you know, not bringing enough money, not being a good enough 382 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:16,640 dad, not, you know, I got a lot blamed a lot for. 383 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:20,680 Isolating us, you know, away from home, right? 384 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:27,600 But at that again you just you still roll with it and you try 385 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,080 to make it better. So when that was happening, I 386 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:33,760 mean and I think there's a lot of guys out there who can relate 387 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:38,960 to being blamed for things and and and also whether it's 388 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,600 genetic. You know we talked about the 389 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:46,640 hunter gatherer the primal of what makes men, men you know 390 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:53,240 that are there hard not to take that on the chin when when we 391 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:57,520 have this many of us have this instinct that we want to take 392 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:00,560 care of and and and have all these things and and at the end 393 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:04,480 of the day let it be known to those around us that we are 394 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:07,000 enough so we can maybe think that we might be enough. 395 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:13,560 You never felt that? No, it it was it was a constant. 396 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:16,720 I'm trying to be the person she wanted me to be. 397 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:18,440 And what was that person? Was it? 398 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:20,160 Was it? Was it possible, Like at the end 399 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:22,840 of the day, looking back hindsight, was it possible for 400 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:24,280 you to be what she wanted you to be? 401 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:27,200 What? She wanted, even if I was, she 402 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,680 wouldn't see it, right? So she wanted me to be much more 403 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:32,800 like her dad. He was a hunter, you know, He 404 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:36,320 was an outdoorsman. I wasn't. 405 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,160 I was the opposite. I like my video games, you know? 406 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,200 And at that time I had given up music for the family. 407 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,920 So that was kind of out of the picture and anytime I tried 408 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:50,440 there were issues there which we can maybe talk about later. 409 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:55,760 But but yeah, I just, I I I wasn't that rugged guy that I 410 00:21:55,760 --> 00:22:00,360 think she wanted. And I now that we're talking, I 411 00:22:00,360 --> 00:22:04,120 I remember there was a time we actually had didn't last in 412 00:22:04,120 --> 00:22:08,200 Prince George. So it was my son was about nine 413 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,840 months old. We moved back to Summerland. 414 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:17,920 The business didn't work out and she, I can remember sitting on 415 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:22,480 the floor and she's sitting in a chair and I was just begging her 416 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:25,200 to love me with this nine month old baby. 417 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,160 And she says I could never love you because I love somebody 418 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,480 else. And I lived with that for 419 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:35,720 another 14 years knowing that. Was that an actual there's a 420 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:37,480 person that she's like, talking about? 421 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:38,600 Or was it? Was it. 422 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,840 I'm sure in the heat of a moment where it's like OK, but like or 423 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:46,080 or was there a 14 year, there's somebody else there that. 424 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:51,880 Yeah, she admired a a guy who is about 8 years older than us, 425 00:22:52,360 --> 00:22:55,440 kind of was teaching her some spiritual things and and you 426 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:57,960 know, she really admired that part of him. 427 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:01,240 He was way more mature than I was Sure. 428 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:03,720 And I'm just speculating. I don't know that it was him. 429 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,080 I you know. No, but the things said though 430 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:08,640 that you're talking about it X amount of years later, like 431 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,400 that's that's the kind of impressionable stuff that when 432 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:13,880 you know and you're begging this person to love you. 433 00:23:14,360 --> 00:23:17,120 Yeah. That's that's a very vulnerable 434 00:23:17,120 --> 00:23:21,560 place right there. And and again, almost primal, 435 00:23:22,360 --> 00:23:24,680 you know, it's a basic human love is a basic human need. 436 00:23:25,360 --> 00:23:30,280 And when you're asking to be loved and that person rebuffs or 437 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,440 or mocks or steps on it, yeah, that's something that would 438 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:35,720 carry with you. Yeah, and at that time, I didn't 439 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:37,480 know what that meant. I didn't know what love was 440 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:41,000 because I didn't feel it from my mom and my dad was he wasn't 441 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:42,520 around. They had separated. 442 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:47,280 I only saw him two weekends a month, and it was more of them 443 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,120 reprogramming me from the way I was. 444 00:23:52,120 --> 00:23:56,600 You know am with my mom, right? To trying to spend time with my 445 00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:58,520 dad, and I know I couldn't have been easy for him. 446 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:01,640 It had to have been difficult. As the relationship progressed, 447 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,440 that's reprogramming is exactly what happened to you, right? 448 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:06,960 And I mean you know you've you've worked your ass off to 449 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,120 unprogrammed this reprogramming that happened. 450 00:24:09,120 --> 00:24:12,360 But let's go into it a little bit more as to as to some of the 451 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:13,800 things you experienced along the way. 452 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:19,440 As far as the reprogramming or as far as the why I needed to? 453 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,200 Yeah, why you needed to like what was what was let's. 454 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,800 Well, for instance, let if we stay on the topic of of this, of 455 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:27,520 who she loved. There were. 456 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:35,320 I had really grown fond of a of a of a friend of mine in Prince 457 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:37,680 George. We've gotten pretty close. 458 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:41,360 I have no siblings, but I really viewed him as a brother. 459 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,040 You know, for the first time I thought that I was caring for 460 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:49,760 somebody like family. Well, a time came when I found 461 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,120 out that they were having a private relationship. 462 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:56,280 So it wasn't physical because he was so far away. 463 00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:00,880 But at that time I was working two jobs. 464 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:04,400 I think it was only two jobs at that time were day doing stucco, 465 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:06,280 and at night I was working for the newspaper. 466 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,880 So I was out driving and I'd have to leave about 1:00 or 1:30 467 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,560 in the morning and he would phone her and they'd have these 468 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,360 intimate conversations. And the only reason I know that 469 00:25:16,360 --> 00:25:22,000 is because his wife phoned me and hysterical, hysterically 470 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,720 yelling at me, I'm like, I don't have anything to do this. 471 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:25,880 I don't even know what you're talking about. 472 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,160 I had no idea. Oh my goodness. 473 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,320 And that wasn't the only time that that happened, right? 474 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:37,840 About six months later, my current friend in the town we 475 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:42,080 were living in, I had come home. It was winter and I saw these 476 00:25:42,120 --> 00:25:47,320 tire tracks in the driveway and I go, oh, was was he here today? 477 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,120 And she was, oh, yeah, he was just dropping some off. 478 00:25:50,120 --> 00:25:52,720 And I'm like, OK. And I come home the next day 479 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,720 early, and he's in my house and they're sitting there having 480 00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,200 tea. Well, I found out a little while 481 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,600 later that he had written her a letter asking her to run off 482 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,360 with him. So they obviously had a 483 00:26:05,360 --> 00:26:09,560 relationship going on there. So this was, this was in a span 484 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:11,640 of a year. I lost my two best friends. 485 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,720 Oh God, that's hard. So I'm going to be the guy right 486 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:18,040 now that doesn't have any emotion. 487 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:23,880 Why'd you stay? My kids, it was the right thing 488 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,040 to do. You know, you don't leave you. 489 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,480 You do what you can. You know you entered this 490 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:33,520 marriage and you had kids. Your responsibilities too, to 491 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:34,560 stick it out. Yeah. 492 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:36,320 How many kids you have? Three. 493 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:38,360 You have three kids. What are the ages now? 494 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:44,120 2624 and 22 I think. Relationship with them? 495 00:26:44,120 --> 00:26:45,440 How's that? Great. 496 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,040 Yeah, I don't know. I like to, I like to go back to 497 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,280 this part of life right now before we go back into the that, 498 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:53,120 that, that stuff. Yeah, yeah. 499 00:26:53,120 --> 00:26:55,840 So I I had basically raised my boys. 500 00:26:56,160 --> 00:27:01,320 They were 15 and 13 when they moved in with me, and so we get 501 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,120 along well. My oldest is he's living a few 502 00:27:04,120 --> 00:27:09,120 couple provinces over and my daughter stayed with her mom 503 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:11,600 because she wanted to go to school where her mom was living. 504 00:27:12,360 --> 00:27:17,720 She's only 10 years old at the time and there's she got taken 505 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,280 away from me when her mom decided to move to Edmonton. 506 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,240 I am. So her and I have had this kind 507 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:29,080 of on off as far as time wise. Yeah, she ended up living with 508 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,720 us for a couple of years, but it was very difficult. 509 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:36,160 She was going through those teenage years and not having a 510 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:40,880 lot of direction before That was really hard on the rest of us. 511 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,240 And so she ended up going back to her mom's, who is now living 512 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:50,400 in Victoria, right? But I still talk to her. 513 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,720 In fact, at our our last show, she surprised me. 514 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,920 She I had no idea she was coming and she just. 515 00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:58,680 The one I was at. The one you were at? 516 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,560 Yeah, yeah, I had no idea. Are you kidding me? 517 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:06,080 Yeah, she came running over and I I hadn't seen her in a couple 518 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:08,840 of years And so we do, we have a good relationship. 519 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:11,840 Oh, that's delightful. That just made my day. 520 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:14,040 Well, just that was such a good night. 521 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:19,440 We we we we saw you know Madhouse tactics a few a couple 522 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:23,200 months ago I guess now and and it was a great night and your 523 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,080 dad was there and all those sorts of I didn't realize the 524 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:28,240 daughter was there as well and that's that's that's beautiful 525 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:31,520 to hear that and it's beautiful to hear that she can help 526 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:35,480 support the things that fill your tank. 527 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:37,960 You know music is clearly something that fills your tank. 528 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,960 You gave it up clearly. I mean looking back, looking at 529 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,480 the at the past giving up something like that because I 530 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,200 mean men can if we have an interest in some of these 531 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,560 things, you know if you have an interest in hockey, you don't 532 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:51,600 you don't have to go to the NHL. You can. 533 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:55,120 There are ways that you can scratch that itch and and and 534 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,280 and and feel fulfilled and you have energy for some of these 535 00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,480 other things or whatever. But when you start isolating 536 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:03,600 these things that make you you and giving them up and music is 537 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:07,920 clearly something that is so close to you giving that stuff 538 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:09,400 up. You're giving a part of yourself 539 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:13,400 away and and and and and and contributing to what we have in 540 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:15,920 the society which is a bunch of guys out there who don't know 541 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:17,320 who they are. They don't know what their 542 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,840 purpose is things like that. And it's it's almost like a bit 543 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,400 of torture where you're you're in this horrible situation and 544 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:25,360 then also all these things that make you you are being picked 545 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:30,800 away and put in the closet. Yeah, because what what made me 546 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:39,200 me created conflict. So I had acquired a guitar and 547 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,840 wanted to play. I wanted to have friends to play 548 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:47,680 with, but every time I did it was drawing attention on me and 549 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:52,080 she didn't like that. So one time I came home from 550 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,960 work and there were blue splinters all over my driveway. 551 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,480 Oh my God. She had taken my acoustic guitar 552 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:02,400 and thrown it off the deck and then went down and got it and 553 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:04,280 brought it up and threw it down again. 554 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,880 There's been there was other times too when she she ruined my 555 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,680 equipment and kind of went down that road. 556 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:17,160 OK, so, so, so we've we've already established the the 557 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,920 emotional stuff a little bit here. 558 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,200 I mean and I'm sure we're going to get into some more of that 559 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:26,160 scarring type things. That's a scarring thing. 560 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,720 You take somebody's favorite anything, whatever it is and you 561 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,560 smash it, you do whatever, you know, with their Seminole value. 562 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,720 I mean, yeah, that that's going to be scarring. 563 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,160 But then there's also a violent act there as well and you saw, 564 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,760 you saw a plethora of both as the years progressed. 565 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,160 You talk about some of the things that you've that you went 566 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:48,320 through when it came with those things. 567 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:56,000 She used to have a a janitorial business and it was a commercial 568 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,920 building that we where we were working at and the alarm went 569 00:30:59,920 --> 00:31:08,600 off when we went in and I didn't have the contact number to phone 570 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,120 to shut the alarm off, but she wanted me to do it. 571 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:12,920 I'm like, I don't have the number. 572 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,000 I don't have the number. You've got to give me the number 573 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:19,880 I And so she grabbed my face and dug her fingernails into my 574 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:23,560 face. You know, I was, I was in my 575 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:25,760 house for a couple of weeks because I didn't want anybody 576 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:29,160 else to know that she had done that because they're from the 577 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,760 the cuts. So that was 1 instance. 578 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,280 Don't remember your question. Well, I I appreciate you. 579 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:42,320 I appreciate you're able to say that right now. 580 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,000 I mean, I know and I know that there are things that you 581 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,040 blocked out. There are things that the kids 582 00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:48,320 reminded you of. There are things that along the 583 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:51,000 way, so, so, but you're painting the picture here of of some of 584 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:52,600 the things. And it was, it was constant. 585 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,640 Would there be a week that went by without violence? 586 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:58,240 Was there always violence? Was it just isolated incidences 587 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,360 that would blow up and then result from it? 588 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,360 Or were you kind of constantly having to have your guard up 589 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:05,400 because it could be unpredictable? 590 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:07,520 Oh yeah, Guard was up. Guard was up. 591 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:09,600 She could I I wouldn't even be looking at her. 592 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:11,880 And she'd walk in the room and I know what was in her hand 593 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,480 without seeing it. Because you're listening. 594 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,400 You know subconsciously you're listening to what's going on 595 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:19,720 around you. And what were some of the things 596 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,640 that would be in her hand? Oh, it It wouldn't even matter. 597 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,400 It wouldn't even be a violent thing she was going to do with 598 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:28,200 it. I just knew. 599 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:30,480 You just you were always just knew what she had. 600 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,000 Knew where she was, what she'd been doing or trying to put 601 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,080 together what she was doing. While I'm watching TV or 602 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:43,640 something, you know, there came a a point going back to some of 603 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:45,680 the things that that I went through. 604 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:50,240 I had one of the kids had come home with chicken pox. 605 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:54,480 OK, She's had chicken pox. OK None of us have had chicken 606 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:55,560 pox. I never had chicken pox. 607 00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:00,840 And OK, she had to go out that night and she wanted me to stay 608 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:03,280 with. I'm like, I've never had chicken 609 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:04,600 pox. I was going to stay in a hotel 610 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:06,880 because, yeah, you don't want it as. 611 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,560 With an adult, it can be a different deal entirely. 612 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:14,960 Yeah, so I I stayed with him and a few days later I got chicken 613 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:18,960 pox. So I did 12-13 days with chicken 614 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,160 pox on my own because she was gone. 615 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,280 And I tell you, that was a horrible experience. 616 00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:28,280 So there's a lack of empathy there as well. 617 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:32,000 Lack of empathy. She had gone out to a a a 618 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,480 gathering of our friends and when she came home she dropped 619 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:39,240 this piece of cake down on the table and she goes, your friend 620 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,280 sent us home for you and she was gone. 621 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:48,200 So I was on my own for that. And this is again the is the 622 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,000 answer always when I say, well, why didn't you leave and and I 623 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,760 mean it's so funny that that you know that men get into the 624 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,280 situation, but there are literally 10s of thousands of 625 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:58,800 men right now who are in similar situations where they're not 626 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,080 standing up, where they're being treated this way and they're not 627 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:04,960 standing up for themselves. And you ask the question why you 628 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:07,640 know and and the logical, Well, because of the kids, because 629 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,679 I've made a promise, because I like, is that is that always 630 00:34:10,679 --> 00:34:13,360 what it was? Or was there a fear of like, had 631 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,840 you been reduced in this place to a fear of not being able to 632 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,120 stand up anymore, like for yourself? 633 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,199 Probably probably a little bit too. 634 00:34:21,199 --> 00:34:23,239 And some of it was a more of a safety thing. 635 00:34:23,679 --> 00:34:25,639 She she was not going to let it go. 636 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,600 If I left, there was no way she was going to let that go. 637 00:34:28,679 --> 00:34:33,560 She would torment me somehow. Fear of losing the kids, Fear of 638 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:35,960 being. She wasn't afraid. 639 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:36,880 No, you weren't. No. 640 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:41,239 I'm saying, yeah, yeah, you know, And then, of course, there 641 00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:43,280 was a lot of time. She was trying to get me to hit 642 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:48,159 her so she'd hit me, getting me to hit her so that she could 643 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:49,960 have now have an excuse to get out. 644 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,199 And we've behind the scenes we've been hearing a lot of 645 00:34:53,199 --> 00:34:56,440 these and and and researching and and what I wear you know 646 00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,480 it's a measure choice cut cut one situation but but the stats 647 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:01,240 that we've been hearing about provoked. 648 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:06,360 You know that obviously with our with our system which is nowhere 649 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:10,720 near perfect. The side falls for you know 650 00:35:10,720 --> 00:35:12,720 women being abused as opposed to men being abused. 651 00:35:12,720 --> 00:35:15,480 They don't it's not it's not police the same. 652 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,280 It's not reported. It's not reported the same even 653 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,160 with with police. And again I'm I'm I'm using 654 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:23,120 broad strokes here because obviously there's exceptions to 655 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:27,120 everything but but there's a lot of guys out there who are being 656 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:32,640 physically abused and and if they even stand up to try and 657 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:37,880 report it the provoking thing which is a major thing like how 658 00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:41,600 many times have we met somebody and they find out our buttons 659 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:43,440 and they just push our buttons and push our buttons and push 660 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:45,600 our buttons. That was a daily thing with you. 661 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:46,400 Right. Oh yeah. 662 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:47,640 Where those buttons are being pushed. 663 00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,720 You know and again we're not we're not focusing on this but 664 00:35:51,720 --> 00:35:53,720 but we got to paint the picture because there are guys were 665 00:35:53,720 --> 00:35:55,720 dealing with this. What was the worst violence that 666 00:35:55,720 --> 00:36:03,160 you ever had against you? She Oh, so at one point she had, 667 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:06,720 she used to play that little head game where she was going to 668 00:36:06,720 --> 00:36:07,920 kill herself. She said she was going to kill 669 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:09,680 herself because she hated being with me so much. 670 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,040 And she said she was going to go down to the road and stand in 671 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:17,720 front of a truck, which, you know, I didn't believe her, but 672 00:36:17,720 --> 00:36:23,920 I still didn't want her to go. So I grabbed her to prevent her 673 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,960 from leaving. Just basically bear hug. 674 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:31,120 But we had a sliding door that had a locking pin. 675 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,200 You would take it out from the bottom of it. 676 00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:35,880 It had a sharp point on it. So this was in her hand when I 677 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,680 bear hugged her. So she stabbed me in the back 678 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:43,920 and four times and twice in the head with it so that, you know, 679 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,680 that's kind of that it would get to that point. 680 00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,760 But there was a few things that were kind of like that. 681 00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:59,760 Some of it was after she had found out that I now we're 682 00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:03,680 jumping way ahead to where I had started a relationship with 683 00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:08,240 somebody else behind her back. She'd found out about that and 684 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:12,600 we still tried to make it work, but she was not happy. 685 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:16,600 So now it kind of gave her a reason to be aggressive. 686 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,280 And, you know, at one point she's sitting in the tub and 687 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:22,280 I'm, I'm sitting on the floor talking to her. 688 00:37:22,720 --> 00:37:25,080 And she just reached out, grabbed my head and slammed it 689 00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:27,800 in the tub. And now I have this massive 690 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:29,440 bruise. It was there for a week. 691 00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:31,320 My kids want to know what's going on. 692 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:34,880 So you make up a story and feel guilty for that. 693 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:40,520 And around that time, I guess it was actually the time she found 694 00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:44,440 out about the relationship. She had gone to go find the 695 00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:48,840 other girl and couldn't. She wasn't there. 696 00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,920 So when she came back, I'm standing in the driveway with a 697 00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:55,000 friend of mine who I called to tell him, you know this is going 698 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,600 on, I need you here because it's about to escalate. 699 00:37:58,240 --> 00:38:01,120 And she ran right over me. Yeah, she hit me. 700 00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:06,080 I went under the van and she had put it into a bank, so it lifted 701 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:09,560 the front end up a bit. So I was able to climb out from 702 00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:13,880 the side. And when I on my trying to climb 703 00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:17,200 out, she had run around and then she's trying to kick me as I'm 704 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:20,360 getting up and my friend was there to restrain her and she 705 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:24,520 started kicking him so. Did the police get involved with 706 00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:27,680 that incident? No, he threatened to. 707 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,080 That's when she started attacking him is when he's like, 708 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:34,400 I'm going to have to phone the police and she started attacking 709 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:36,040 him. OK. 710 00:38:36,240 --> 00:38:38,520 How many times throughout your relationship with the police 711 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:40,800 ever involved? 00 times. 712 00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:45,000 And she never tried calling them on you like there was never OK 713 00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:47,640 Because I mean, we we've dealt with, we've met with guys who, 714 00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:51,280 that's the situation too. Where the provoking happens if 715 00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:54,000 there's a shove or a out of defense or whatever, and then 716 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,040 that narrative is created as well. 717 00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,680 Unfortunately, these are, these are these are real situations 718 00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:00,000 that real guys are going through. 719 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,560 And I I just applaud you and I'm so grateful that you're willing 720 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:03,920 to kind of talk about this stuff here. 721 00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:05,640 And again, life is 10 out of 10 now. 722 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:07,240 Life is good. Life is. 723 00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:10,000 Good. But at the end of the day, I 724 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,720 mean these are, these are are real situations. 725 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,600 I'm going to ask a really hard question and I'm sorry about 726 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:20,760 this. You stayed together for the 727 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:25,240 kids. The kids saw some horrible shit. 728 00:39:26,240 --> 00:39:30,720 It's a no win situation. I'm just asking you this for 729 00:39:30,720 --> 00:39:32,840 guys that are in that situation right now. 730 00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:37,840 Food for thought because there is no perfect answer and and 731 00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:42,200 it's an impossible thing. What was the worse than your 732 00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:44,920 kids saw? Did your kids see anything like 733 00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:48,640 that, like that extreme? Or did was she, I don't want to 734 00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,360 even say calculating enough, but but just was she at the point 735 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,920 where it's like, OK, I'm going to, I'm going to shield that 736 00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:57,400 from the kids, and this is only going to happen when he's alone, 737 00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:59,320 thus isolating and all that kind of a stuff. 738 00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,040 I'm not sure what would be. Is it a combination of both? 739 00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:03,600 They heard. They didn't. 740 00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:05,760 I don't. I don't think they saw very 741 00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:07,080 much. Yeah, most. 742 00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:08,680 They would have heard it though, for sure. 743 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:10,280 I mean, she was aggressive with them. 744 00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:12,640 Yeah. She would pinch them till they 745 00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:18,720 bled, you know, Obviously a lot of yelling, but no, I don't. 746 00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:21,280 I don't. They would see the effect, you 747 00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:24,000 know, if I was cut or something, they would know that. 748 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:25,160 And they would. Yeah. 749 00:40:25,720 --> 00:40:26,720 Kids are smart. Yeah. 750 00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:29,160 You put two and two together. Well, yeah, you know, when I 751 00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:32,280 tried to make up some story and I admitted, I told them later, 752 00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:35,160 you know, years later, that what had actually happened. 753 00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:40,280 So yeah, you know, when they're 9 and 10 years old, I was doing 754 00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:43,800 my best to shelter them. Yeah, from what really happened. 755 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:46,040 And again, that's the no win situation too because you say, 756 00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:47,680 OK, well I'm going to leave. Well that's great. 757 00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:51,160 But then what if they end up 100% because you're the 758 00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:53,520 protective of them too, right? Those are. 759 00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:56,240 I'm not, I'm not. I'm painting a picture that that 760 00:40:56,240 --> 00:40:58,400 those are the feelings that you're you were feeling at the 761 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:02,000 time or or or was it? Well, yeah, I I didn't feel that 762 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:06,120 they were safe. So if I leave and I don't take 763 00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:10,840 them with me, which is going to create a whole another war, then 764 00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:13,920 they're not safe and it's it's better for me to stay there. 765 00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:20,320 You're going through this stuff happens chain reactions. 766 00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:22,400 So, you know, one thing leads to another leads to another leads 767 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:24,200 to another. I mean, obviously you're human. 768 00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:28,040 You're, you know, trying to find, you know, love or caring 769 00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:29,680 in other places, that kind of thing. 770 00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:33,080 Other relationships started up. I mean, you know, you're not 771 00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:40,080 none of us are perfect ever. You know, was that near the end, 772 00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:42,440 the turning point when it was like, hey, enough is enough, 773 00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:44,880 it's time to change something. What was your I? 774 00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:46,560 And I know that there's a rock bottom moment. 775 00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:49,080 What was are we at the rock bottom moment or is there 776 00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,360 anything that we need to talk about to set the table before 777 00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:55,160 the rock bottom moment? I mean, I know there's so much. 778 00:41:55,240 --> 00:41:56,640 There is. There's a lot, I mean, there's a 779 00:41:56,640 --> 00:42:00,440 lot of little things, you know, multiple times telling me how 780 00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:02,760 she hated our last name. She didn't want her last name 781 00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,160 because she did hated the thought of being married to me. 782 00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:08,960 Little, little head game. Things that they were frequent. 783 00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:11,720 She had sold my dog one day when I was at work. 784 00:42:12,720 --> 00:42:17,440 You know, little things that when you add them all together, 785 00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:21,800 there's just, there's a huge volume of of things that you're 786 00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:24,160 constantly trying to recover from. 787 00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:33,280 But then she had confided in a friend of hers, you know, kind 788 00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:35,360 of where our relationship was at. 789 00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:40,320 And it was a relative of that friend who got wind of it, who 790 00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:43,640 herself was in a a very, extremely bad relationship. 791 00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:50,120 And I used to run my dog at night just 'cause I like the 792 00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:52,920 dark. And she knew where I ran. 793 00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:58,000 And she met me on the path one day, and I thought, this is 794 00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:00,520 weird, you know? Didn't think anything of it at 795 00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:02,320 the time. But she was there the next 796 00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:05,640 night, too. And I was already just before 797 00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:07,640 that, I talked to a friend of mine saying, look, you know 798 00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:08,520 what? I can't. 799 00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:13,400 If if somebody comes along, it's about 3 months before that. 800 00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:15,560 I said if somebody comes along, I'm not going to be able to do 801 00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:19,640 this anymore. Like like I'm going to go my 802 00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:21,880 separate ways. And so he tried talking to her. 803 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:25,000 He was kind of a spiritual counselor to us and trying to 804 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:29,640 trying to solve things that way. And it happened. 805 00:43:30,720 --> 00:43:37,200 It happened. And that relationship didn't 806 00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:38,920 work out. But it didn't work out because 807 00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:42,000 we didn't get along. It was just too complex of a 808 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:46,080 situation. Yeah, But it was the first time 809 00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:49,280 in my life that I ever felt cared for. 810 00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:56,440 Yeah, so I was. I was about 35 years old. 811 00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:00,600 I think by then, it was the first time that I really knew 812 00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:04,760 that I felt cared for. Wow. 813 00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:09,520 Complex. This is all complex. 814 00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:15,520 Yeah. So that's a light bulb moment in 815 00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:19,120 some ways it was it was that empowerment was that was that 816 00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:23,560 because I mean the strength to do what you you did and how you 817 00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:26,440 did it and and some of the things that you know you you 818 00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:28,080 clearly had to have some empowerment there. 819 00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:31,760 I mean, was that a? You know what it it was just 820 00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:37,280 something I was drawn to. I was drawn to that attention 821 00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:40,920 and that that level of care. And I really wanted to have that 822 00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:42,640 in my life. OK, so you knew that this 823 00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:45,640 existed, now you knew that that was a possible thing. 824 00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:49,160 And it's like, oh, there is, there is something different 825 00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:52,360 than what I've experienced. Yeah, literally my whole life. 826 00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:55,640 Yeah. And that relationship, you know, 827 00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:57,280 was almost a year long. Yep. 828 00:44:59,240 --> 00:45:03,840 But there was talks about, you know, getting married, you know, 829 00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:11,720 living this life together. So it was a spark. 830 00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:13,040 OK. It wasn't. 831 00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:14,480 I don't. I don't think it was a light 832 00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:15,640 bulb moment. Yeah. 833 00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:19,600 But it started a chain reaction to bring the end. 834 00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:22,080 OK, so let's continue down that chain reaction. 835 00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:26,680 Then let's progress it and and and get to get to the, get to 836 00:45:26,720 --> 00:45:29,840 the, the, the, the, the changing and thank God again 10 out of 10 837 00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:31,240 now, but it doesn't happen without. 838 00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:32,960 Yeah. These next. 839 00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:35,120 So this is. Yeah. 840 00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:45,280 So that once my ex got wind of that relationship, yes, the 841 00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:48,600 hostility escalated. That's when, you know, I got run 842 00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:49,280 over. Yeah. 843 00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:53,400 And not just her. It was the other girl's husband 844 00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:55,480 as well. You know, he showed up in my 845 00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:58,720 door and threatened me. And that was a that was a tough 846 00:45:58,720 --> 00:46:00,760 thing. He ended up taking moving away 847 00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:04,480 with her to get her away from me because we would still meet even 848 00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:07,160 after this was all found out. You know, we would we would meet 849 00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:10,800 privately. But you know, trying to, trying, 850 00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:15,280 I tried to make it work. I tried to make that work for a 851 00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:21,280 year, but it was now. Now we are definitely not going 852 00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:26,600 to live together. So with my ex, I mean, so she 853 00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:29,400 ended up moving out right away. OK, actually, I think it was a 854 00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:30,960 few days. I think it was a few days later. 855 00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:33,360 I think we tried for a week to make it work, but I had to have 856 00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:38,440 somebody there with me because she was violent, you know, she I 857 00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:42,360 had fallen asleep on the floor and I woke up to her kicking me 858 00:46:42,720 --> 00:46:47,360 in the stomach. And he had actually, that was 859 00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:49,840 right after he had gone home. So he was there for a few days, 860 00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:51,600 keeping an eye on me and. The moment he. 861 00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:52,840 Leaves like it seems pretty good. 862 00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:55,840 And yeah. And then so he came back. 863 00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:57,720 And that was when it was kind of like. 864 00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:00,560 This is a question that I think needs to be answered because 865 00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:02,720 there's a lot of guys who are living in this situation where 866 00:47:02,720 --> 00:47:05,120 where there are moments of lucidity or moments of 867 00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:07,960 admission. Did she know that her behavior, 868 00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:11,920 I don't even want to say, isn't normal, isn't appropriate? 869 00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:13,280 Did she know that she was violent? 870 00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:14,960 Like, did she ever admit to that along the way? 871 00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:17,640 Or was it this is how it is and this is how I act, This is how I 872 00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:20,960 am. There's no even discussion about 873 00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:22,920 it like. I don't think there's AI, don't 874 00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:25,920 think there's a conscience to that, consciousness to that. 875 00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:31,440 OK, yeah. And and if there was, it was 876 00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:34,560 validated, right? Especially now. 877 00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:36,080 Yeah, she just. Well, especially. 878 00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:37,920 She had the right to be that way, yeah. 879 00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:42,600 Oh man. So, OK, where do you go from 880 00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:43,640 there? You try to make it work for a 881 00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:45,800 year. You wake up her kicking you. 882 00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:48,960 Clearly is at some point a decision's going to be made. 883 00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:53,040 What was your rock bottom in this, in this, in this thing? 884 00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:55,760 Because it, you know, there's a time you ended up in the 885 00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:59,360 hospital on your own by your own accord. 886 00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:04,800 And thank goodness for that. Like is that right close to this 887 00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:08,240 moment or is there? It was probably a 2 two months 888 00:48:08,240 --> 00:48:12,760 later maybe, trying to remember the timeline, but so she had 889 00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:14,680 left. She had finally left. 890 00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:19,400 She took whatever money we had, which wasn't much. 891 00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:23,320 We we were quite poor. Was there relief when she left, 892 00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:26,400 or was it still she was lobbying things from afar? 893 00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:28,080 She was lobbying. She'd still come in my house. 894 00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:32,200 She'd go through my mail. You know, she'd, you know, 895 00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:34,680 question about this and that and, you know, still there and 896 00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:36,320 we, you know, still had the kids to deal with. 897 00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:39,760 Yeah. So she was gone. 898 00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:45,680 My best friend believed her. She told, told the story about 899 00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:47,320 how what a horrible person I am, Right. 900 00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:51,280 He believed her. Thank God there was no social 901 00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:53,760 media at that point. Yeah, Can you imagine? 902 00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:57,280 She, she ended up living part time with him and his wife. 903 00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:03,920 And when so they were gone. This was during the recession, 904 00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:09,120 so I had no work. I had one job that was going to 905 00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:11,280 last me a few months. I'd have a little bit of money, 906 00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:15,160 but it wasn't enough to survive. So I had lost that. 907 00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:21,520 My kids are, you know, gone half the week before I got to see 908 00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:23,600 them again. It was a kind of a process we 909 00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:26,040 went through in in separating that we had a mediator who 910 00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:33,120 decided, you know how, how the The Who would get the kids for. 911 00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:34,800 So the government's involved now? 912 00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:37,200 Kind of social. Assistance as well. 913 00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:39,960 Yeah. So at this point, when I had no 914 00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:43,720 money and and all of that, I had to go to social assistance, I 915 00:49:43,720 --> 00:49:44,880 was, you know, I had an eviction. 916 00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:49,400 I got evicted from my house. I went to social assistance. 917 00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:54,240 They were giving me 1070 a month and my rent was 1040. 918 00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:57,600 So because of that I ended up evicted. 919 00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:04,480 I just couldn't afford it. But that $30, you know, while I 920 00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:07,520 was trying to stay in the house for the kids, so they all have 921 00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:15,080 their own bedrooms that I that was all the money I had to feed 922 00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:18,560 them. So the 3 1/2 days that they were 923 00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:19,960 with their mom, I just didn't eat. 924 00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:23,560 And then they'd come and we'd eat junk food because it was all 925 00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:26,360 like afterward. Yeah, Kraft dinner, hot dogs, 926 00:50:26,720 --> 00:50:29,520 spaghetti. Yeah, whatever we could. 927 00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:33,240 At one point the the power got cut off because I couldn't pay 928 00:50:33,240 --> 00:50:42,320 the power bill and and I think the one time my mom ever, maybe 929 00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:45,920 the second time my mom ever helped me out, she gave me 930 00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:48,880 $500.00 for food and to pay my power bill. 931 00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:54,160 But I was going after my ex because we had we had owed in 932 00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:57,000 back taxes and the child tax benefit. 933 00:50:57,160 --> 00:50:57,840 Right. Yeah. 934 00:50:58,040 --> 00:50:59,280 You're not getting that if, yeah. 935 00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:03,240 Goes to her. So she had a huge amount, it was 936 00:51:03,240 --> 00:51:07,880 6 / 6000 dollars and I just said, look, I just need some of 937 00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:10,920 it, you know, at least pay my power bill. 938 00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:13,280 She said no, nothing good, nothing. 939 00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:15,840 So I was in the dark. So she kept the kids because 940 00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:17,520 there was no way I was going to get them. 941 00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:21,080 I have to say it again, 10 out of 10 life right now because 942 00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:23,160 there are guys right now who are in the shit right now. 943 00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:26,200 Miles and I I'm just like, thank you for saying the stuff. 944 00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:30,240 There are guys who are there right now and and and and and 945 00:51:30,240 --> 00:51:32,920 I'm going to ask you this question at this point in the 946 00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:35,240 story. What insights do you have for 947 00:51:35,240 --> 00:51:38,720 those guys who are there? Right now, who there's hope? 948 00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:42,040 There's. Hope there is solutions. 949 00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:51,640 There is a lot of resources now and I think what it ultimately 950 00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:55,120 comes down is courage when I was. 951 00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:59,240 So I'll continue this story because it actually goes a 952 00:51:59,240 --> 00:52:00,680 little bit. Perfect. 953 00:52:01,240 --> 00:52:07,200 More into the hole. So at this point it's dark. 954 00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:09,880 No money. Literally, literally and 955 00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:10,880 figuratively. It's dark. 956 00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:15,000 Yes, I had no friends. They all believed her as well. 957 00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:20,440 No friends. You know, my family a little 958 00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:23,720 bit, but I had no way to get to them. 959 00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:29,760 My dad lived two cities over. So this is it. 960 00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:33,600 You know, what's the point of living so Because the girl I 961 00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:39,240 wanted to be with was gone and and had basically decided she's 962 00:52:39,240 --> 00:52:42,160 going to try and make her relationship with her husband 963 00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:47,760 work. So that was out and I was I I 964 00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:49,680 just didn't see what the point was. 965 00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:53,840 And I had a big shop that had no ceiling in it, just rafters. 966 00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:58,600 And I had a long extension cord. And I went out there and I was 967 00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:02,360 just through that extension cord over that rafter and I was ready 968 00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:08,160 to tie that knot. And for some reason I phoned my 969 00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:11,960 friend and I don't know if for sure if it was because I feared 970 00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:15,000 for my kids or it was just an impulse. 971 00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:19,000 But I found that friend that didn't believe me and I just 972 00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:21,200 said to him, you have to come to my house right now to look after 973 00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:23,960 my kids. And he did. 974 00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:27,120 He hung up. The phone was about took him 975 00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:30,960 about 6 minutes to get there, which was the longest 6 minutes 976 00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:36,080 of my life trying to not go through with what I had pretty 977 00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:37,880 much committed myself to go through. 978 00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:42,240 And he was there and he goes, what's wrong? 979 00:53:42,240 --> 00:53:46,240 I said I'm going to the hospital and I got in my car and drove to 980 00:53:46,240 --> 00:53:51,200 the hospital and told them I'm, you know, I just tried to kill 981 00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:57,440 myself and they hospitalized me for four days on suicide watch. 982 00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:04,000 Now to go back to I talked about courage. 983 00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:11,720 So prior to this, a friend of mine, she had known through 984 00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:16,200 through a misunderstanding. She had found out how difficult 985 00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:22,400 my relationship was and I had first started confiding in her, 986 00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:27,080 not on a romantic level, but just as someone I could express 987 00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:31,000 my feelings to. She had given me a bracelet that 988 00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:32,680 she had made. It was leather and it said the 989 00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:35,400 word courage on it. I always had that. 990 00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:37,120 I'm like, man, this makes a lot of sense. 991 00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:43,800 But eventually I had lost it. Then the girl that I was trying 992 00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:45,880 to have a relationship with, she had made me a new one. 993 00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:49,880 And I had that bracelet that said courage on it. 994 00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:55,800 And so when I'm in the hospital and I'm lying in that bed, after 995 00:54:55,800 --> 00:55:00,760 the psychiatrist comes and has a evaluation with me and the 996 00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:04,160 nurses there, I'd have that bracelet. 997 00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:06,880 And I could just look at it and say this is what's going to help 998 00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:10,560 me get through this. And so I had it for quite a 999 00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:16,080 while, and it it eventually wore out and jump way ahead to the 1000 00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:19,200 future, to my new relationship with my new wife. 1001 00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:22,400 She had a nice stainless steel one made for me and engraved the 1002 00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:25,760 word courage on it. Yeah, because she knows how 1003 00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:27,400 important that is. And it is. 1004 00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:31,760 I think about it all the time. For guys out there who are 1005 00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:34,320 dealing with this thing, and you know, we we use the word 1006 00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:39,640 courage, I think it's very important also to note that if 1007 00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:42,000 you pretend you have courage, it's the exact same thing as 1008 00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:44,840 actually having the courage. Because sometimes we don't think 1009 00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:49,360 that we actually have the ability to, we have to act like 1010 00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:50,800 we have it. But if we act like we have 1011 00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:55,920 courage, it's the same thing. And and and you do have it. 1012 00:55:56,520 --> 00:56:00,040 You do have it. It's it's dark right now, but 1013 00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:02,400 you do have it to get through. Yeah, it's hard. 1014 00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:04,160 It's hard in that moment to find it. 1015 00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:06,640 Yeah, you have to. I think you have to have 1016 00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:09,320 constant reminders. Yeah, yeah. 1017 00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:12,600 So this this bracelet I have now, I don't always wear it 1018 00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:14,880 because it does fall off. I lost it at a convention one 1019 00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:15,720 time. Oh no. 1020 00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:18,720 But found it. Yeah, got it back. 1021 00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:22,560 So. But it's so helpful when I have 1022 00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:25,200 it. So that's next year's tattoo 1023 00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:27,600 project. Oh, right on. 1024 00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:29,280 Yeah. It's going to become permanent. 1025 00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:30,280 It is. It is. 1026 00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:31,640 Then I'll. I'll always have it there. 1027 00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:33,840 I can always just just a little reminder. 1028 00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:37,840 Yeah. Was the hospitalization, was 1029 00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:41,320 that the rock bottom moment? Yeah, I think so. 1030 00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:46,080 I think just prior to it when I was ready to end it all, I think 1031 00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:48,320 that was where I was. I was done. 1032 00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:56,040 I do you remember when you started to get tools to help you 1033 00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:57,480 with this? Because I mean again along the 1034 00:56:57,480 --> 00:57:00,720 way you had some friends here and there you had some, you 1035 00:57:00,720 --> 00:57:04,960 know, potentially, you know, I don't want to say incorrect, but 1036 00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:08,160 ways that that weren't necessarily the best tools to 1037 00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:11,960 deal with things. You know, now you're starting at 1038 00:57:11,960 --> 00:57:16,160 this point here to actually learn some concrete things to 1039 00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:19,560 help you, things that if you just had as skills or tools 1040 00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:22,160 along the way, you know, some of the stuff could have been 1041 00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:23,920 avoided. And I think that's where we're 1042 00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:26,400 in this era of mindfulness that's showing up now. 1043 00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:27,920 And I mean that's what he changed. 1044 00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:31,120 It certainly wants to be is is, is, is, is, is a resource rich, 1045 00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:36,240 you know tool that guys can take all sorts of stuff from the 1046 00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:41,720 toolbox that can help them early on after the hospitalization. 1047 00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:44,200 What was one of those early tools that you got that helped 1048 00:57:44,200 --> 00:57:47,640 you cope or helped you start to get out of the dirt? 1049 00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:50,600 Yeah. So coming out of the hospital, 1050 00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:54,560 you know, I had AI had a psychiatrist and A and a mental 1051 00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:57,280 health worker. And I would assume a plethora of 1052 00:57:57,280 --> 00:58:01,520 diagnosis as well. Yeah, you know, the, the, the. 1053 00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:03,880 I went through two psychiatrists because I really wanted help, 1054 00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:07,920 and the first one just didn't seem to be listening, and the 1055 00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:10,120 second one just loved the drama of the story. 1056 00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:12,320 And he just right away put me on medication. 1057 00:58:13,120 --> 00:58:16,840 And I didn't want medication. I mean, it helped. 1058 00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:22,000 I mean, it helped immensely because now, for the first time 1059 00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:24,440 in my life, I wasn't having. I wasn't on guard. 1060 00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:26,920 Oh, so there's a clear head there with. 1061 00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:30,040 Yeah, it wasn't clear, but I wasn't on guard. 1062 00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:34,480 OK, fair enough. So I the nightmares were 1063 00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:39,200 unbelievable. You know, you I I would, I would 1064 00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:42,360 dream about being killed in various ways by people that had 1065 00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:44,640 thought I cared about. This is on medication or off 1066 00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:45,720 medication. This is. 1067 00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:48,680 Like, like leading up to why the medication was there. 1068 00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:54,840 I no, I think it's it was both. It was both. 1069 00:58:54,840 --> 00:58:57,440 It was both. Wow. 1070 00:58:58,120 --> 00:59:01,120 Yeah. So because of that, they had put 1071 00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:09,120 me on an antipsychotic to try to eliminate or reduce the amount 1072 00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:10,880 of of the nightmares I was having. 1073 00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:14,680 I was changing sheets more than twice a night. 1074 00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:19,160 Yeah. It was interesting because my 1075 00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:24,840 wife just told me yesterday that there was a long period where I 1076 00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:27,320 was in bed. I don't remember that after we 1077 00:59:27,320 --> 00:59:28,680 got married. So we've been married about 1078 00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:33,000 almost 10 years ago. There was a period I was just in 1079 00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:36,560 bed all the time and I just, I don't remember that She goes, 1080 00:59:36,560 --> 00:59:41,360 you were you had the freedom now to cope with your entire past 1081 00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:46,000 and and that's what it was. So the the psychiatrist had me 1082 00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:48,400 on this medication. One was an antidepressant and 1083 00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:52,520 the other one was antipsychotic. But I didn't like that. 1084 00:59:54,080 --> 00:59:58,520 And then I got referred to a program for abused men. 1085 01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:03,720 So here in BC, it could be Canada wide. 1086 01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:10,840 Women counseling is supported by the government. 1087 01:00:11,480 --> 01:00:13,960 Men's counseling wasn't, at least at that time. 1088 01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:16,280 I don't know if it is now, but that time it wasn't. 1089 01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:21,640 So I was referred to a counselor who worked with women and she 1090 01:00:21,640 --> 01:00:24,520 volunteered her time one day a week to work with men. 1091 01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:29,480 Wow. So I went for an intake there 1092 01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:36,640 and she said, just so you know, I have 29 men in my program. 1093 01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:41,480 I have 32 on the wait list. And I'm like, OK, you know, I 1094 01:00:41,480 --> 01:00:42,880 thought that, OK, here's another dead end. 1095 01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:44,640 I got to figure out something else. 1096 01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:51,040 So she did the intake and six days later I was in the program. 1097 01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:55,640 I got bumped to the top of the list because of how bad it was. 1098 01:00:55,640 --> 01:00:57,680 The severity. Yeah, yeah. 1099 01:00:58,080 --> 01:01:05,080 So I was in her program for nine months, which changed my life. 1100 01:01:06,160 --> 01:01:09,040 She was brilliant. I went in there and told her 1101 01:01:09,520 --> 01:01:13,840 basically how my ex would describe me and she just said 1102 01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:18,240 bullshit, you know, I go, how could you possibly know that? 1103 01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:21,160 And she goes, well, this is what I think. 1104 01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:24,440 And she kind of just said a few things, not really knowing my 1105 01:01:24,440 --> 01:01:30,000 story. And there was a surreal moment. 1106 01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:32,560 There were two surreal moments while I was in in her program. 1107 01:01:34,440 --> 01:01:38,720 One was I was, I was still going, sorting things out with 1108 01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:41,360 the ex. And I would tell her, OK, well, 1109 01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:43,960 I'm meeting the ex about this, this kind of situation. 1110 01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:46,640 And she goes, all right, well, this is what she's going to say. 1111 01:01:47,240 --> 01:01:50,960 And she listed off a bunch of things and I'm like, OK, right. 1112 01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:55,080 So then I'm there. I'm in the moment and she's 1113 01:01:55,080 --> 01:02:00,680 saying word for word what was said to me, I, which I I I have. 1114 01:02:00,720 --> 01:02:02,280 I don't know what it was because I wasn't. 1115 01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:04,120 Paying any attention matter you just in awe. 1116 01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:08,600 So I'm like, OK, she knows what she's talking about. 1117 01:02:09,240 --> 01:02:12,880 That was a very eye opening moment and that, you know, I 1118 01:02:12,880 --> 01:02:15,080 went in there wanting to fix myself. 1119 01:02:15,120 --> 01:02:19,040 I cold turkeyed the medication, which she did was not happy 1120 01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:23,480 about because insomnia is a side effect of getting off an 1121 01:02:23,480 --> 01:02:26,360 antipsychotic. Well, at least that one, I 1122 01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:29,360 guess, anyway. But I did it because I didn't 1123 01:02:29,360 --> 01:02:31,320 want a Band-Aid. I wanted to know that I was 1124 01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:35,760 getting better. So there was that moment, and 1125 01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:38,640 then the other moment was I showed up early to one of my 1126 01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:43,640 counseling sessions and she'd run a little long with with the 1127 01:02:43,640 --> 01:02:46,200 guy before me. And he walked out that door and 1128 01:02:46,200 --> 01:02:49,400 I saw him and I realized I wasn't alone. 1129 01:02:49,920 --> 01:02:52,960 That there's there is other men. Even though she threw a number 1130 01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:55,800 at me and and how many were waiting to be in there, it 1131 01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:59,680 wasn't real until until I saw somebody there. 1132 01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:04,320 And from that moment on I was like, I'm just going to try and 1133 01:03:04,360 --> 01:03:08,760 digest everything she says she would do things that were very 1134 01:03:08,800 --> 01:03:11,320 awkward for me, very uncomfortable. 1135 01:03:11,360 --> 01:03:14,360 And they're yeah, I think about them now and they're they're so 1136 01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:17,760 easy. close your eyes and just list 5 things that you can hear. 1137 01:03:18,160 --> 01:03:21,480 But I couldn't even do that. I was too embarrassed, too 1138 01:03:22,360 --> 01:03:25,160 ashamed. I don't know what it was, but I 1139 01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:28,200 was not comfortable doing that. But she would make me do it. 1140 01:03:28,520 --> 01:03:31,480 And then she would test me, you know, put yourself in an 1141 01:03:31,680 --> 01:03:34,480 uncomfortable situation. So I went to a party where I 1142 01:03:34,480 --> 01:03:36,880 only knew one person. Oh, yeah. 1143 01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:37,840 Yeah. No, yeah. 1144 01:03:38,280 --> 01:03:40,800 I mean, the party wasn't awesome, but it was 1145 01:03:40,800 --> 01:03:43,040 uncomfortable. And that was the beginning of me 1146 01:03:43,040 --> 01:03:50,080 trying to be around people. But those tools she gave me and 1147 01:03:50,080 --> 01:03:55,360 and just my my faith and her ability I use every day, every 1148 01:03:55,360 --> 01:03:57,400 day. And I've taught other people and 1149 01:03:57,400 --> 01:04:01,360 I think that's what's really helped is I've been able to help 1150 01:04:01,400 --> 01:04:05,040 other people. Like my wife now she went 1151 01:04:05,040 --> 01:04:09,800 through a difficult first relationship and then raising 1152 01:04:09,800 --> 01:04:13,240 her son on her own. You know there was we had four 1153 01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:16,600 teenagers and it was kind of like, OK, well this is what's 1154 01:04:16,600 --> 01:04:20,960 going on because you learned part of my program, the 1155 01:04:21,080 --> 01:04:26,440 counseling program was to read body language and and at that 1156 01:04:26,440 --> 01:04:29,200 time I wasn't very good at it. But you get better and better 1157 01:04:29,200 --> 01:04:33,360 and better at being able to read tone of voice and you know how 1158 01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:36,720 people hold themselves and and that was something I was able to 1159 01:04:36,720 --> 01:04:41,760 start teaching other people and that's that just started me down 1160 01:04:41,760 --> 01:04:44,240 a road of continuing to better myself. 1161 01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:47,760 I love how you want to help others. 1162 01:04:48,080 --> 01:04:50,520 I love that. Like like again you were 1163 01:04:50,520 --> 01:04:54,440 enthusiastic about wanting to come here and tell this very 1164 01:04:54,640 --> 01:04:59,280 difficult story about what you've gone through and it's the 1165 01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:01,760 most personal. So I mean apparent like you talk 1166 01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:03,920 about the the emotions attached to this. 1167 01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:05,880 I don't know if there's any other emotions that are tighter 1168 01:05:05,880 --> 01:05:09,800 than being a parent and and that is tightly woven with your 1169 01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:11,240 story. I don't know if you could be 1170 01:05:11,240 --> 01:05:17,680 more personal and and and the enthusiasm to talk about this to 1171 01:05:17,680 --> 01:05:21,360 help other guys it's like right at the top of your list of 1172 01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:27,160 priorities of things that that that that that you know fill you 1173 01:05:27,360 --> 01:05:30,960 you can just see it. It just comes from you talking 1174 01:05:30,960 --> 01:05:35,400 about this. Thank you very much by the way 1175 01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:38,760 for for talking about these things. 1176 01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:41,920 Thank you for being you know there is you talk about courage. 1177 01:05:43,040 --> 01:05:47,320 The courage in this day and age in this world to be able to to 1178 01:05:47,600 --> 01:05:52,560 talk about such things. Do you know you're exercising 1179 01:05:52,560 --> 01:05:55,440 courage right now or or or do you have a different gear 1180 01:05:55,680 --> 01:05:59,640 because your reality is just so healed and so shaped in so many 1181 01:05:59,640 --> 01:06:02,160 ways and and and I mean we don't even have time to really get 1182 01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:05,400 into the PTSD of things and all the the complex of situational 1183 01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:09,520 anxieties that you feel now and things, things like that. 1184 01:06:09,520 --> 01:06:13,240 There's still echoes of this, but I think the difference is, 1185 01:06:13,240 --> 01:06:15,240 is you've got this awareness. Yeah. 1186 01:06:15,280 --> 01:06:19,240 The awareness of your story and your authenticity is exemplary 1187 01:06:19,240 --> 01:06:23,720 right now, and I'm in awe of it. Is are you exercising courage 1188 01:06:23,720 --> 01:06:27,560 and doing this today or is it something different than that? 1189 01:06:28,840 --> 01:06:31,800 No, Yeah, yeah, definitely it. Definitely. 1190 01:06:31,840 --> 01:06:34,680 Yeah. You know, an hour before I got 1191 01:06:34,680 --> 01:06:36,880 here, I could start to feel myself getting a little anxious. 1192 01:06:36,880 --> 01:06:37,200 OK. OK. 1193 01:06:37,640 --> 01:06:39,560 Yeah, fair enough. Yeah, that's all I would think 1194 01:06:39,560 --> 01:06:42,040 it is. But I can't sense it in you as 1195 01:06:42,040 --> 01:06:46,040 you're telling the story. Yeah, but that, I guess that's 1196 01:06:46,080 --> 01:06:49,120 it, that that once you engage it, you're fine. 1197 01:06:49,120 --> 01:06:52,040 It's kind of like, well, do I need it or do I not need it? 1198 01:06:52,040 --> 01:06:55,120 Like if I'm in a crowd of people, that's a lot of people. 1199 01:06:55,120 --> 01:06:56,560 That's a lot of body language to read. 1200 01:06:56,960 --> 01:06:59,880 I do get overwhelmed because I'm trying to read everybody's body 1201 01:06:59,880 --> 01:07:04,880 language, so crowds are are pretty tough, but there was a 1202 01:07:04,880 --> 01:07:07,040 time when I couldn't go in an elevator if there was going to 1203 01:07:07,040 --> 01:07:08,880 be one other person in there. Wow. 1204 01:07:09,040 --> 01:07:12,840 So now just to kind of continue on with that teach. 1205 01:07:13,080 --> 01:07:17,440 What I was taught is I will now ask them a question or say 1206 01:07:17,440 --> 01:07:21,720 something to them. It's that pushing that envelope 1207 01:07:21,720 --> 01:07:26,400 a little bit more, having that courage to make myself better. 1208 01:07:27,760 --> 01:07:33,600 OK, so talk to me about the guy who's on stage, because the guy 1209 01:07:33,640 --> 01:07:39,440 who's on stage is like the most confident person that I could 1210 01:07:39,760 --> 01:07:42,160 imagine. And and and you're not just on, 1211 01:07:42,160 --> 01:07:44,240 you're a showman on stage. And not just that, you're also 1212 01:07:44,240 --> 01:07:48,880 leading the band, like you're also that guy as well, you know. 1213 01:07:49,560 --> 01:07:53,120 When did music come back into your life and and and was that 1214 01:07:53,360 --> 01:07:55,440 ordained by this group that you were in? 1215 01:07:55,440 --> 01:07:56,800 OK, yeah. This is something you love. 1216 01:07:56,800 --> 01:07:59,080 It's time to bring it back as an exercise. 1217 01:07:59,080 --> 01:08:01,000 Or did it something that was it something that was just 1218 01:08:01,000 --> 01:08:03,520 naturally added back in as you started to heal? 1219 01:08:03,840 --> 01:08:06,480 It was when I first went home after the hospital. 1220 01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:13,040 I had time. I had nothing else to do, so I 1221 01:08:13,040 --> 01:08:15,160 grabbed my guitar. In the dark. 1222 01:08:15,800 --> 01:08:17,800 Yeah, yeah. That didn't last very long. 1223 01:08:17,840 --> 01:08:19,840 I know I hear you, but I just. But. 1224 01:08:20,359 --> 01:08:23,000 But at your rock bottom moment, you know you're just out of the 1225 01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:25,040 hospital, the rock bottom moment, and then the guitar 1226 01:08:25,040 --> 01:08:26,240 comes back. The guitar. 1227 01:08:26,279 --> 01:08:31,479 The guitar came back and it was quite therapeutic and I really, 1228 01:08:31,479 --> 01:08:34,560 I wanted to challenge myself to be able to sing and play at the 1229 01:08:34,560 --> 01:08:37,760 same time. So I spent five or six months 1230 01:08:37,960 --> 01:08:40,120 working on that. And then you know, once I 1231 01:08:40,120 --> 01:08:43,720 started to get some of my friends back, you know, I tried 1232 01:08:43,720 --> 01:08:46,520 to tried to form a band with some friends and that was a long 1233 01:08:46,520 --> 01:08:47,760 project. They were going through their 1234 01:08:47,760 --> 01:08:50,240 own lives. And it was it was tough, but it 1235 01:08:50,240 --> 01:08:56,080 was something I really wanted to do and then joined a band. 1236 01:08:57,120 --> 01:08:59,560 My wife encouraged me to do it. I was ready to sell all my 1237 01:08:59,560 --> 01:09:01,240 stuff. I told her like, I'm getting rid 1238 01:09:01,240 --> 01:09:04,399 of it all and she's like, why don't you just answer an ad to 1239 01:09:04,399 --> 01:09:06,040 see if somebody's looking for a guitar player? 1240 01:09:06,880 --> 01:09:10,680 Like, OK, so I did. I was hired on the spot and from 1241 01:09:10,680 --> 01:09:13,720 there it kind of snowballed and another band get heard about me 1242 01:09:13,720 --> 01:09:15,359 and and that's how I ended up here. 1243 01:09:15,479 --> 01:09:18,040 The difference of having someone in your life who encourages 1244 01:09:18,040 --> 01:09:20,040 versus discourages cannot be measured.