1 00:00:10,100 --> 00:00:12,800 Welcome to. He cast the official podcast of 2 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:16,800 he changed it as always, I am Mike Chisholm as always. 3 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:22,500 I am so excited to be here. You know, I'm a broken record 4 00:00:22,500 --> 00:00:24,700 how I talk about how this is my favorite part of the week. 5 00:00:24,700 --> 00:00:28,000 It is. We're 100 episodes deep into 6 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:29,800 this thing and it's still the favorite part of my week. 7 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:33,800 I love hosting this podcast. I love the conversations that 8 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:35,400 come out of it. As far as I'm concerned. 9 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:37,900 I am the one that benefits the most because I get to be here 10 00:00:37,900 --> 00:00:39,300 for them. All I get to be here for these 11 00:00:39,300 --> 00:00:42,600 amazing conversation, centered around men's mental wellness. 12 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:46,900 And, and I get to watch front row as, as the he changed it. 13 00:00:46,900 --> 00:00:50,900 Movement is growing right before our eyes, and it is growing 14 00:00:50,900 --> 00:00:52,900 things are happening. If you haven't downloaded the 15 00:00:52,900 --> 00:00:54,000 app, yet. What the heck? 16 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:57,400 Are you waiting for? Please go to your app store. 17 00:00:58,100 --> 00:01:00,900 Whether it's Apple or Google. We do not care. 18 00:01:00,900 --> 00:01:03,800 Whatever your persuasion is head on to those stores. 19 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:08,300 Grab the he changed it app, download it be part of it in its 20 00:01:08,300 --> 00:01:11,100 infancy, be an early adopter with so much. 21 00:01:11,100 --> 00:01:14,200 Fun watching the process of this company. 22 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:17,700 In this movement grow. We're very grateful for 23 00:01:17,700 --> 00:01:20,000 everything that is happening here. 24 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:23,400 Yeah, lots of lots of really good things happening. 25 00:01:23,500 --> 00:01:25,300 And if you've been here from the start, you've seen a bunch of 26 00:01:25,300 --> 00:01:28,700 it. As I said, I'm the one who is so 27 00:01:28,700 --> 00:01:31,700 fortunate to do. These conversations and be a 28 00:01:31,700 --> 00:01:33,900 part of them. If you haven't subscribed 29 00:01:33,900 --> 00:01:36,100 whether you're watching on the YouTubes or whether you're 30 00:01:36,100 --> 00:01:38,600 listening on the apples or the spotify's or whatever. 31 00:01:38,700 --> 00:01:41,600 Please give us a please give us a subscription. 32 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:43,600 Do you know, he change it? Overlords love that because they 33 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:45,700 see the metrics of it. And please leave us a positive 34 00:01:45,700 --> 00:01:48,600 review and a positive comment about what it is that we're 35 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:49,900 doing here. We're trying to make the world a 36 00:01:49,900 --> 00:01:54,200 better place and one man at a time and the sign off to this 37 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:55,400 thing is go change. Something. 38 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:58,200 We're trying to show people how to do exactly that. 39 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:04,200 Always the guests that we have provide insights from their 40 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:08,199 Vantage Point how to do this. And I love the guests that we 41 00:02:08,199 --> 00:02:12,800 have today. There's a d word that is out 42 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:18,100 there, that many folks, especially men avoid like the 43 00:02:18,100 --> 00:02:21,100 plague they want to avoid it like you wouldn't, you wouldn't 44 00:02:21,100 --> 00:02:23,900 believe we've wanted to do it in an episode of depression for a 45 00:02:23,908 --> 00:02:29,500 while now and haven't really found the exact, right? 46 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:34,900 You know, Confluence of events combined with, with a guest 47 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:36,800 today is that today? Is that day? 48 00:02:36,900 --> 00:02:41,800 We've got a guy on this podcast today who has not just 49 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:47,300 experience from a very young age, depression all the way into 50 00:02:48,900 --> 00:02:53,300 into his further years of life, Decades of dealing with 51 00:02:53,300 --> 00:02:58,400 depression, but learned how to manage and and and live with 52 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:01,300 depression many times. I don't even like talking about 53 00:03:01,300 --> 00:03:03,100 this. The good news is, you don't have 54 00:03:03,100 --> 00:03:06,000 to talk here. You can just listen or watch as 55 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:10,500 Bruce and I discuss his book. So, Bruce Ross is our guest 56 00:03:10,500 --> 00:03:12,400 today. He has written the book breaking 57 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:16,700 free of depressions. Grip, a powerful success story. 58 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:21,700 I'm excited because the title is very, very much a title that a 59 00:03:21,708 --> 00:03:24,200 man would put on. It's right on the nose, but 60 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:26,100 we're going to ask him if he's got some hidden meetings as 61 00:03:26,100 --> 00:03:28,200 well. So the author of Breaking Free 62 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:29,800 of depressions grip. A powerful. 63 00:03:29,900 --> 00:03:31,400 SS story. Bruce Ross. 64 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:34,700 Thank you so much for taking time out of your busy day and 65 00:03:34,700 --> 00:03:36,900 your schedule to be on he casted. 66 00:03:36,900 --> 00:03:39,500 A thank you, Mike. Thanks for having me on your 67 00:03:39,500 --> 00:03:41,200 show. And it's a great great 68 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,100 opportunity to share my story with other listeners that 69 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:45,800 partake so wonderful. Thank you. 70 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:50,300 Well, and it is as it's a hell of a story, it's a as I alluded 71 00:03:50,300 --> 00:03:54,300 to it's a story that has it's still unfolding to this day and 72 00:03:54,300 --> 00:03:57,700 the good news is unfolding in a place where you can take the 73 00:03:57,700 --> 00:04:01,400 things that you have learned. And you can spread them around 74 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:05,000 now and I'm so grateful that we are on this side of the story 75 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:07,300 where it is, a lot of things that you have learned. 76 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:09,900 That is exactly what he changed. It is all about. 77 00:04:10,500 --> 00:04:15,600 I want to go into the fact that 15 years old is when is when 78 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:19,700 these symptoms these started to manifest themselves in your 79 00:04:19,700 --> 00:04:22,900 life. I mean, the word depression, the 80 00:04:22,900 --> 00:04:28,500 evolution of what we know about depression in your journey has 81 00:04:28,500 --> 00:04:32,200 changed many. Many times over my gosh, when 82 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:34,800 you were 15, you started dealing with depression. 83 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:37,100 Tell us your story Bruce and then we can get into the book 84 00:04:37,100 --> 00:04:38,600 and all sorts of other fun stuff. 85 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:42,900 I just want to hear the story. Sure, just to kind of summarize 86 00:04:42,900 --> 00:04:46,200 it, so, you're right. Michael was about 15 years old 87 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:52,400 and in grade, 10 actually, between grades 9 and 10, and I 88 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:56,700 started to feel displaced and some of the common symptoms that 89 00:04:56,700 --> 00:05:02,000 you now identify depression, but I felt alienated displaced 90 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:08,000 fatigued, just bummed out all the time on and on it goes would 91 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:12,500 explore that later, but that's how I Felt unfortunately, I 92 00:05:12,508 --> 00:05:17,500 didn't have a solid relationship with my parents and depression 93 00:05:17,500 --> 00:05:20,000 mental health issues. Certainly weren't on the radar 94 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:23,000 at that time. Anyway, yeah, so I didn't know 95 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:25,800 what I was dealing with. I just knew something was kind 96 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:30,300 of ask you with how I felt and I tried to deal with it myself for 97 00:05:30,300 --> 00:05:33,500 years. And in fact, 20 years actually 98 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:37,700 and I just lived every day. Just hoping my ship would come 99 00:05:37,700 --> 00:05:40,700 in taking different measures upon myself. 100 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:44,600 L've to better myself to feel better about myself. 101 00:05:44,900 --> 00:05:49,400 It didn't materialize is mid 90s, but 1995. 102 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:52,300 It was actually my wife Cheryl who said to me. 103 00:05:52,300 --> 00:05:56,400 She said, Bruce, I think you suffer from depression and 104 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:59,100 surprisingly, I wasn't defensive. 105 00:05:59,100 --> 00:06:02,500 I actually knowledge that that could be a problem. 106 00:06:02,500 --> 00:06:06,500 Could be my illness, right? And, and, you know, provide an 107 00:06:06,500 --> 00:06:09,700 answer to my what I was searching for at least to be the 108 00:06:09,700 --> 00:06:10,700 cause of it. Anyway. 109 00:06:11,500 --> 00:06:16,600 So you want a couple decades without even, you know, knowing 110 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:19,700 that you were depressed, you were like, you were like a ship 111 00:06:19,700 --> 00:06:23,100 with no with with no root. You just no Rudder. 112 00:06:23,100 --> 00:06:26,100 You you had no idea you were depressed at all. 113 00:06:26,100 --> 00:06:29,000 What were some of those symptoms that you felt the like, like, 114 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,700 did you know that you were you felt differently than many of 115 00:06:32,700 --> 00:06:35,200 the people around? You like were you aware of that 116 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:37,300 that it was different? Or did you assume that everybody 117 00:06:37,300 --> 00:06:40,300 felt this way? No, I knew something was wrong. 118 00:06:40,300 --> 00:06:43,200 I just knew. I didn't know what it was 119 00:06:44,100 --> 00:06:46,300 depression. Wasn't talked about your that at 120 00:06:46,300 --> 00:06:50,000 that time. In fact, the only Association 121 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:54,600 high or knowledge of depression. I had that was the mid-70s 1970s 122 00:06:55,700 --> 00:06:58,500 by watching the movie. Wonderful, the Cuckoo's Nest 123 00:06:58,500 --> 00:07:02,100 with Jack Nicholson and I certainly knew I wasn't that so 124 00:07:02,100 --> 00:07:05,200 to speak. I just denied that and, you 125 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:07,600 know, and as I said, he never liked you took my parents to 126 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,300 open up. So, I kept it all with him. 127 00:07:10,500 --> 00:07:15,700 I just felt very lonely, very isolated, and I felt. 128 00:07:15,700 --> 00:07:18,400 So I guess to use another movie analogy. 129 00:07:19,300 --> 00:07:21,100 There was a movie in some time ago now. 130 00:07:21,100 --> 00:07:27,300 But Bruce Willis with six cents here right, where he's there 131 00:07:27,300 --> 00:07:29,800 physically, but not emotionally or mentally. 132 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:33,000 And that's how I felt just very displaced and very alienated. 133 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:37,300 And and I just put on a facade and carried on like put on a 134 00:07:37,300 --> 00:07:40,700 mass of the speak to Injure concealed. 135 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:42,600 But I didn't know what was wrong. 136 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:48,000 And the said it was the mid-90s that my wife first suggested 137 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:52,800 that I might be the cause. And I wasn't defensive because 138 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:56,900 in many ways, I felt like a person or an escaped prisoner 139 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:00,700 who's on the run. And he was finally captured. 140 00:08:00,700 --> 00:08:04,000 And there's just such a relief to know that it's over, and 141 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:06,900 that's how I felt like. I just felt zip now, I had to 142 00:08:06,900 --> 00:08:11,600 get on with life and Find a cure so to speak for the illness, but 143 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:13,200 at least I knew what I was dealing with. 144 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:17,200 Unfortunately, that wasn't to being, I spent the next 25 years 145 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:21,800 on a journey of trying to solve the depression riddle. 146 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:26,700 And that's where I am today and, and we can get into that a 147 00:08:26,707 --> 00:08:30,000 little bit later too. But that's really, as, it's been 148 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:33,200 quite a journey as with the professional self-help, measures 149 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:36,900 of undertaking taken to combat the illness. 150 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:41,799 I want to, I want to That's you've set this the the table 151 00:08:41,799 --> 00:08:45,600 perfectly for this next question though. 152 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:50,100 Like it's so interesting. How you got to a place of you 153 00:08:50,100 --> 00:08:51,900 were sick and tired of being sick and tired. 154 00:08:51,900 --> 00:08:55,800 And the idea that you were given for lack of a better term a 155 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:57,800 label. But but at the end of the day, a 156 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:01,700 name of what it was that you were feeling and finally being 157 00:09:01,700 --> 00:09:03,900 able to kind of submit to that and go, okay. 158 00:09:04,900 --> 00:09:08,300 And that gave you Freedom right now and I mean we're going to 159 00:09:08,300 --> 00:09:10,700 get to the next 25 years because really at the end of the day 160 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:16,000 that realization LED you to the starting point. 161 00:09:16,100 --> 00:09:19,500 Another starting point where to some people, oh this realization 162 00:09:19,500 --> 00:09:22,100 the the weight lifted off my shoulders, you think that's 163 00:09:22,100 --> 00:09:25,800 resolution but really all it is is leading you to the next. 164 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:30,400 The start of the next phase. There are guys right now who are 165 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:34,800 in that same spot that have been may be denying and I'm not You 166 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:39,300 denied it until the 90s when the, when that that that name 167 00:09:39,300 --> 00:09:42,500 was given to you and that weight lifted off your shoulders, but 168 00:09:42,500 --> 00:09:44,600 there are guys out there who know that they are feeling 169 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:46,400 different. That know, they're feeling off. 170 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:47,700 They know they're wearing a mask. 171 00:09:47,700 --> 00:09:53,200 They've got a facade and they're still fighting the idea of 172 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:56,100 submitting to a label or submitting to a name of the 173 00:09:56,100 --> 00:09:59,700 condition. Talk a little bit about before 174 00:09:59,700 --> 00:10:02,400 we get into the next 25 years. Talk a little bit about the 175 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:06,100 freedom that you felt. And and and if you could tell 176 00:10:06,100 --> 00:10:09,500 your younger self, if you could go back and scold your younger 177 00:10:09,500 --> 00:10:12,100 self to say, hey submit to this idea. 178 00:10:12,100 --> 00:10:15,300 It's going to be faster to leading to you feeling better. 179 00:10:15,300 --> 00:10:17,900 Is that is that the type of Freedom that you felt when you 180 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:23,100 absolutely? I you know, I felt like the pain 181 00:10:23,100 --> 00:10:26,600 would be over. So just be a matter of finding 182 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:30,400 the remedy in the mid-nineties. There're little early or not. 183 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:34,100 I believed if you recall Prozac was a wonder drug at that. 184 00:10:34,300 --> 00:10:38,800 I'm sure Cutting Edge for depression treatment that was in 185 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:42,200 the folds, at that time. So I figured if I take some 186 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:46,400 Prozac, everything, be normal, you know, 20 years after the 187 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:50,400 fact, it wasn't to be. That's what my you family 188 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:53,200 doctor, prescribed and wasn't to be. 189 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:57,200 And I, that started the Journey of the next 25 years. 190 00:10:57,700 --> 00:11:02,600 There was, but I wasn't disappointed or hopeless over 191 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:04,100 the over. The fact that Prozac. 192 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:06,100 Didn't work. I just assumed there would be 193 00:11:06,100 --> 00:11:11,700 some combination of medications or other treatments that would 194 00:11:11,700 --> 00:11:14,500 Solve the Riddle. But as I soon found out it 195 00:11:14,500 --> 00:11:19,700 wasn't to be as many times. We have this idea that we can 196 00:11:19,700 --> 00:11:22,700 fix something. You know, there's The Stereotype 197 00:11:22,700 --> 00:11:24,700 of how we don't listen to our wives. 198 00:11:24,700 --> 00:11:27,900 We just we just want to fix things when when the point is we 199 00:11:27,900 --> 00:11:30,000 should just learn how to listen that stuff and don't worry about 200 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:32,300 fixing. But we have sometimes this 201 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:35,600 Fix-It mentality in our That's where we want to do that. 202 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:39,000 But at the end of the day, and I'm kind of setting the table 203 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:41,000 here for the next phase for the next 25 years. 204 00:11:41,700 --> 00:11:45,200 Sometimes things are just a process and the process is the 205 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:47,200 fixing. There isn't a getting rid of 206 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:50,400 this taking a wonder drug and, and getting rid of it forever 207 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:55,400 and letting it being, you know, in the past sometimes things 208 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:59,200 like this, are our present. That's the friend that's coming 209 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:02,000 with us in the front seat whether we like it or not, and 210 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,100 it's a matter of learning just to deal with that. 211 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:08,100 At and manage that is that the thing is that one of the major 212 00:12:08,100 --> 00:12:10,000 things that you learned over the next 25 years. 213 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:11,600 Like I know you went on a massive Journey. 214 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:14,400 I'd like you to talk about that. Talk about some of the rabbit 215 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:18,100 holes that you went down in searching for the truth that you 216 00:12:18,100 --> 00:12:22,300 now know. Certainly, if I knew then what I 217 00:12:22,300 --> 00:12:27,400 know now at the start of the journey, I just assumed it would 218 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:30,800 be pretty black-and-white. That I would just Prozac or 219 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:34,000 equivalent would solve the Cure or solve the problem. 220 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:35,700 I'd be down of it. Right? 221 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:40,700 But as I as, as the treatment options and self-help measures 222 00:12:40,700 --> 00:12:43,600 many of them. They undertook didn't resolve 223 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,100 the issue. It became little more 224 00:12:46,100 --> 00:12:47,700 frustrating. There's no doubt. 225 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:52,400 But if I knew then what I know now, it would have provide some 226 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:58,900 comfort down the road that it was certainly a journey and in 227 00:12:59,100 --> 00:13:04,400 it wasn't in one size, fits all. But there would be kind of a Not 228 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:08,500 a happy ending but a called the ending, which frankly there has 229 00:13:08,500 --> 00:13:11,100 been which I get to at the end of this podcast. 230 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:15,800 It is it's certainly interesting. 231 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:18,200 What one thing point. I do want to make Mike is you 232 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:23,300 asked about the load opening up a while ago, one or not, opening 233 00:13:23,300 --> 00:13:27,000 up about accepting. It one thing that I know now 234 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:30,400 that I didn't know then In the mid-90s. 235 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:34,800 It's is there a number of men, women too? 236 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:39,500 Of course, but but but men who have suffered from depression 237 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:44,500 and is well documented. And if I had known that, then it 238 00:13:44,500 --> 00:13:47,000 would have provide be little more Comfort going forward. 239 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:50,500 An example is Winston, Churchill is probably appropriate to bring 240 00:13:50,500 --> 00:13:52,700 up his name. Given what's going on in Ukraine 241 00:13:52,700 --> 00:13:56,300 right now? Yeah, in WWII until the u.s. 242 00:13:56,300 --> 00:14:00,000 Got involved, the Britain was Essentially on their own in 243 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:03,900 fighting Germany and there's once in Churchill who sold 244 00:14:03,900 --> 00:14:09,300 marred for leading the country in that other example, Jim 245 00:14:09,300 --> 00:14:14,400 Carrey The zany comedian. He was on 60 Minutes some years 246 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:17,400 ago detailing his bouts with depression. 247 00:14:18,100 --> 00:14:20,000 Another example. I mean, there's many of them but 248 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:22,900 Brad Pitt, I mean, what guy wouldn't want to look like Brad 249 00:14:22,900 --> 00:14:27,400 Pitt, but he'll he's opened up about his bouts with depression. 250 00:14:28,700 --> 00:14:31,900 If I hadn't known that, you know, back then that would have 251 00:14:31,900 --> 00:14:33,700 provided me some comfort. Unfortunately. 252 00:14:33,700 --> 00:14:36,900 I felt like I was very much on my own well, and I think that 253 00:14:36,900 --> 00:14:41,100 that is a phenomenal marker to say, at this point here, if 254 00:14:41,100 --> 00:14:42,900 there are guys who are listening to this and they know that 255 00:14:42,900 --> 00:14:46,300 they're off somehow someway, maybe they even have the, the 256 00:14:46,300 --> 00:14:48,000 realization that it is depression. 257 00:14:48,900 --> 00:14:53,600 The fact that you are not alone is massive, and I'm so grateful 258 00:14:54,700 --> 00:14:57,800 that we got to that early on. In the podcast that there are 259 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:00,800 there are many Many many guys who are dealing with this right 260 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:04,600 now. Covid has exemplified and an 261 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:08,500 exaggerated and Amplified many of these things. 262 00:15:08,500 --> 00:15:12,800 We live in a society right now that is getting for many men 263 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:15,600 harder and harder to live in as it's changing so quickly. 264 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:20,100 And I mean, there's all sorts of things that the factors that can 265 00:15:20,100 --> 00:15:25,300 contribute to a slipping biological, you know, 266 00:15:25,300 --> 00:15:28,100 environmental issues life events that. 267 00:15:28,500 --> 00:15:31,200 And you're not alone, you're not alone. 268 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:33,600 And there is a lot of people out there who have travelled down 269 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:36,100 these paths. And, and, you know, one of the 270 00:15:36,100 --> 00:15:40,200 clues that gets thrown out there is that you can, you can link 271 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:44,200 arms with some of these people. Whether it is through media, 272 00:15:44,300 --> 00:15:47,200 like books, like Bruce's book, whether it is through, you know, 273 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,100 men's groups, different things. We are definitely going to try 274 00:15:50,100 --> 00:15:54,100 and create more tools with. He changed it for four, men who 275 00:15:54,100 --> 00:15:58,300 are living silently. Please don't live silently. 276 00:15:58,500 --> 00:16:02,900 That's not the way to get to a place of curing or managing 277 00:16:02,900 --> 00:16:08,400 whatever the whatever the the end goal is dealing with it 278 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:09,900 silently is not the way to do it. 279 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:12,800 And so let's help you get proactive and that's what Bruce 280 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:14,100 is helping people do with the book. 281 00:16:14,100 --> 00:16:16,800 And and when that's a great message, I appreciate hearing 282 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:19,400 that Bruce. It's interesting that you 283 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:23,300 mentioned about the loneliness. I can say unequivocally. 284 00:16:23,300 --> 00:16:28,300 That's one of the the most pressing issues with with the 285 00:16:28,500 --> 00:16:30,400 Russian. As you feel very alone. 286 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,000 You just feel like you're the only person in the world that 287 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:35,700 has depression not something. Not the case. 288 00:16:35,700 --> 00:16:38,800 There's something like 280 million people worldwide, that 289 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:42,800 suffer from depression, so that you weren't alone, but it's 290 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:44,800 difficult to accept that. When you are depressed. 291 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:47,900 You just feel like it's, you're doing person knows how you feel. 292 00:16:48,100 --> 00:16:51,400 And that's simply not the case. Yeah, that's an awful feeling. 293 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:55,000 And, and so, anybody who is got their eyeballs or there are 294 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:57,000 holes on this podcast. Please do that. 295 00:16:57,700 --> 00:16:59,700 That, that is Definitely not the case. 296 00:16:59,700 --> 00:17:04,000 And and there are there are routes to not feeling this way, 297 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,599 you know, Bruce before, we get to the next 25 years. 298 00:17:06,599 --> 00:17:11,000 And some of the the places that you went in your quest to 299 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:15,900 managing depression, you know, Candace and her team as they 300 00:17:15,908 --> 00:17:17,900 were building, he changed it. They went out and looked for 301 00:17:17,900 --> 00:17:21,700 what they call pain points. That's the, you know, that's the 302 00:17:21,700 --> 00:17:26,099 terminology they use as to why men's mental Wellness is in the 303 00:17:26,099 --> 00:17:28,000 state that it's in right now in North America. 304 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:30,300 And Beyond that Europe as well in Australia. 305 00:17:30,300 --> 00:17:34,000 And everywhere around the world. Like you said, you know, 280 306 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,900 million people. Oh my gosh, some of the pain 307 00:17:36,900 --> 00:17:38,500 points are the ones that you did that. 308 00:17:38,500 --> 00:17:42,600 You'd think, you know, family breakdowns or, you know, 309 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:45,300 childhood trauma, you know, the things that you would think are 310 00:17:45,300 --> 00:17:48,300 stereotypical, but two of the top ones, you know, body image 311 00:17:48,300 --> 00:17:51,600 was one and again, guys, don't talk about this stuff, but 312 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,800 overwhelming purpose was another and then they overwhelmingly 313 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:56,600 though. Number one was loneliness and 314 00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:00,100 that's a huge thing. And if If you're lonely, well, 315 00:18:00,100 --> 00:18:04,600 that can kind of suck, but if you're lonely and hurting like, 316 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:08,800 got something wrong with you, man, that is not a great place 317 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:10,100 to be. And that's why we want to 318 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:14,700 definitely encourage people to reach out to be vulnerable. 319 00:18:14,700 --> 00:18:17,800 It's hard to do. But but at the end of the day, 320 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:20,900 being able to get rid of loneliness is is one of the 321 00:18:20,900 --> 00:18:26,000 Silver Bullets to attacking, you know, things like this. 322 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,300 I want to talk about that next. 25 years you went. 323 00:18:28,500 --> 00:18:30,400 A lot of rabbit holes and I don't want to put words in your 324 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:34,000 mouth, shocked about it. But you went you you went down 325 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:39,000 the conventional and The Uncanny and the unconventional roles as 326 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:41,700 to as to, how to solve this. Can you talk a little bit about 327 00:18:41,700 --> 00:18:45,300 the next 25 years that led to the book Bruce you are. 328 00:18:45,500 --> 00:18:49,200 I mean, it's it's it was quite a journey and, you know, 45 years 329 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:54,600 and counting is it sounds Preposterous as well. 330 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:58,600 Chamberlain staging, in the, his book that he slept with Thousand 331 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:00,800 women in. Yeah, but it's true that I'm 332 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:06,100 exaggeration is like your. Yeah, true. 333 00:19:06,100 --> 00:19:09,600 But certainly, the 45 years is 45 years. 334 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:13,300 Yeah, 45 years and counting. So, the first 20 undiagnosed, 335 00:19:13,300 --> 00:19:18,600 but the next 25 you say is, is when I went on this journey and 336 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:21,700 it started off with a family. Doctors, as a mentioned 337 00:19:21,700 --> 00:19:24,500 prescribe Prozac. He just prescribed generically 338 00:19:24,500 --> 00:19:26,200 as depression. You didn't win the types of 339 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:30,400 depression or what type, I suffered from but just that is 340 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,700 depression, Prozac didn't work, then escalated to other 341 00:19:33,700 --> 00:19:38,200 medications that didn't work. So then he referred me to 342 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:42,100 another family. Doctor who sent me on a crusade 343 00:19:42,100 --> 00:19:48,900 essentially physical checkups, including a sleep disorder 344 00:19:48,900 --> 00:19:52,900 clinic. He sent me to have allergy tests 345 00:19:52,900 --> 00:19:57,900 and the thyroid test was all three of those issues can mimic 346 00:19:57,900 --> 00:20:00,300 the Russian. They did they didn't they're 347 00:20:00,300 --> 00:20:02,700 ruled out. They didn't work the cause or 348 00:20:02,700 --> 00:20:06,800 mimic depression that escalated from there, very much. 349 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:10,800 So two more medications, it's up to 20 different types of 350 00:20:10,808 --> 00:20:13,800 medication. I've been on, I've lost count 351 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:19,500 actually some and isolation some augmenting, one another and then 352 00:20:19,900 --> 00:20:23,800 my family doctor about time referred me to the psychiatrist 353 00:20:24,500 --> 00:20:28,300 that I've seen for 20 some years now, and I've been with him and 354 00:20:29,500 --> 00:20:32,300 I'll be on the journey. In fact, he's he wrote a 355 00:20:32,300 --> 00:20:35,500 testimonial and my book and this is chapter devoted to him. 356 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:41,700 Dr. Chandra seen his name. Anyway, so one from medications 357 00:20:41,700 --> 00:20:45,500 to he he assigned me to a therapist who have cognitive 358 00:20:45,500 --> 00:20:49,500 behavioral therapy CBT. It's referred to which is a 359 00:20:49,508 --> 00:20:53,800 standard procedure or treatment option in conjunction with 360 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:56,900 medications. That didn't solve. 361 00:20:57,100 --> 00:21:00,500 It solve the issue. Although I understood CBT from a 362 00:21:00,508 --> 00:21:03,100 rational perspective. It didn't resonate with me, 363 00:21:03,900 --> 00:21:08,000 emotionally CVT is just changing your thoughts that may have 364 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,700 derived from growing up and the false belief systems and so 365 00:21:11,700 --> 00:21:12,900 forth. Yeah, working on your 366 00:21:12,900 --> 00:21:14,800 subconscious Pathways, right? This is it. 367 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:18,100 I love that stuff II a Big, Joe dispenza fan. 368 00:21:18,100 --> 00:21:20,800 He talks about that. How rewiring your brain that is 369 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,600 all positive stuff. And again, sometimes these 370 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:25,700 medications work. Sometimes it is the thyroid. 371 00:21:25,700 --> 00:21:30,500 Sometimes it is these things. It just wasn't in your Case the 372 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:38,000 CBT it lost my train of thought here, but this the CBT all I 373 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:43,100 know it reminded me of reading how to play better golf or book 374 00:21:43,100 --> 00:21:46,400 on how to play better golf. You know, I know why I'm slicing 375 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:50,500 the ball when I hit the hit the off, the Fairway off the tee, 376 00:21:51,100 --> 00:21:52,600 but reading the book, it doesn't. 377 00:21:52,700 --> 00:21:56,000 I don't can't translate that into straightening out my slice 378 00:21:56,000 --> 00:22:01,000 and that's what seems kind of Anyway, so we asked my doctor 379 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:06,800 Chan or seen it escalated from there to repetitive 380 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:11,600 transcranial. Magnetic stimulation or TMS, 381 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:15,900 which most people have never heard of but that's I went to a 382 00:22:15,900 --> 00:22:19,700 Centre in Toronto and for two weeks straight. 383 00:22:19,700 --> 00:22:24,800 I took time off work. And they got the setter. 384 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:29,200 They put a metal plate to get your head, is pretty kind of 385 00:22:29,208 --> 00:22:33,500 crude really, and, and you're awake during the whole 386 00:22:33,500 --> 00:22:40,300 procedure, but it is, it directs magnetic impulses into the brain 387 00:22:40,300 --> 00:22:43,800 where the, where the depression resides. 388 00:22:43,900 --> 00:22:48,800 So, I, I spent two weeks there for about an hour a day and it 389 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,700 was all out of pocket is I think six thousand dollars. 390 00:22:52,300 --> 00:22:58,100 Yeah, oh hip and my work covers didn't didn't pay for so I think 391 00:22:58,100 --> 00:23:01,500 it helps but didn't last. So that was kind of the end of 392 00:23:01,500 --> 00:23:05,500 that measure. Dr. Chen or seen in an Escalade 393 00:23:05,500 --> 00:23:09,300 to the dreaded, ECT electroconvulsive, therapy 394 00:23:09,900 --> 00:23:12,900 therapy. Pardon shock therapy, shock 395 00:23:12,900 --> 00:23:13,900 therapy. That's right. 396 00:23:14,700 --> 00:23:20,200 Wow, so he so for I think most people are aware of. 397 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,400 It gets a bad reputation. But it is actually very 398 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:27,800 recognized worldwide treatment for depression for major 399 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,600 depression. Yep, but where they put you 400 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:34,300 under of Tennessee's, your cars and hook up, electrodes and then 401 00:23:34,300 --> 00:23:39,100 shock you into a seizure what they do and that's kind of jolts 402 00:23:39,100 --> 00:23:42,900 the depression out of you for lack of a better explanation, 403 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,800 but he dr. Chandler seem to stop the 404 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,000 treatments after a week or two because they weren't effective. 405 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:51,700 So that was the end of that option. 406 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,500 And all along is these are all professionals. 407 00:23:56,500 --> 00:23:59,800 So to speak Journeys measures. I am gone. 408 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:05,700 They're taking and I also took a number of treatments are 409 00:24:05,700 --> 00:24:10,100 measures myself. I didn't just sit on my my butt 410 00:24:10,500 --> 00:24:13,800 and look for the professional measures and couple of things I 411 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:17,900 did. I read that always read that. 412 00:24:21,300 --> 00:24:26,000 Read that writing our story of exercising, reduces depression. 413 00:24:26,100 --> 00:24:28,700 Sure. So I took that to the extreme. 414 00:24:29,100 --> 00:24:33,000 When a 38 years old. I made a New Year's resolution 415 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:38,600 after a few Pops to run a marathon. 416 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,900 I'm not spring. So January 1st. 417 00:24:41,900 --> 00:24:45,400 I ran three kilometers and that was it, and the by quickly, 418 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:49,100 escalated their. And then by may, I ran the 419 00:24:49,100 --> 00:24:51,600 Pittsburgh Marathon. Less than four hours. 420 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,600 Wow, and after that I ran five months, five months. 421 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,100 Not a runner. And and in five months, you're 422 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,000 so lucky. I get asked this question here 423 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:02,900 because because I think it's important to note. 424 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:05,300 Like I know the answer, but I think it's important for our 425 00:25:05,300 --> 00:25:06,600 viewers and our listeners to know. 426 00:25:06,900 --> 00:25:11,400 You're also living a normal right accessible in many 427 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,300 different peoples version of the word successful. 428 00:25:14,300 --> 00:25:17,000 You're literally living a successful life while you're 429 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,100 doing this while you're going through this stuff. 430 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:21,800 There's No, no. No, but it was a bit of a 431 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:22,800 facade. Really. 432 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:26,200 I mean, I will take phony but I guess it was. 433 00:25:26,700 --> 00:25:30,200 Yes, you're right. I had a career in the financial 434 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:34,000 world. I'm pretty well educated and and 435 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:38,200 I went to work every day and fulfilled my responsibilities 436 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:45,800 and but the the marathoning and preparing for help. 437 00:25:46,500 --> 00:25:49,600 I also run the New York City marathon Chicago, marathons into 438 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:52,500 more. When I didn't, when that didn't 439 00:25:52,500 --> 00:25:55,400 do it, you know, it really the depression somewhat, but it 440 00:25:55,408 --> 00:25:57,300 wasn't a magic cure, so to speak. 441 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:01,900 Yeah, and then, I took up triathlon me at age, 40, never 442 00:26:02,100 --> 00:26:06,100 done that before. Did three that summer and and 443 00:26:06,100 --> 00:26:11,800 fairly major triathlons. And the last what the third one, 444 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:16,500 I did a month after I did. My first one was a half Ironman 445 00:26:16,500 --> 00:26:20,200 Triathlon where you swim too close. 446 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:24,400 There's bike 90 km than run half and half marathon. 447 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:29,100 So I finished a gives them six half hours, but you know, 448 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:33,100 getting Extreme Measures to feel better about myself. 449 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,700 Did it work? Somewhat, but it wasn't, you 450 00:26:36,700 --> 00:26:39,800 know, so that's yeah, that's it. I gotta talk about that. 451 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:44,100 Like, okay, so you're really unturned every stone that you 452 00:26:44,100 --> 00:26:49,900 can through clinically and personally, that's what I'm 453 00:26:49,900 --> 00:26:51,100 doing. Everything that you can 454 00:26:51,100 --> 00:26:54,500 anecdotally, I'm sure, you know, you're trying everything to try 455 00:26:54,500 --> 00:26:56,500 and get this thing licked. The quote. 456 00:26:56,500 --> 00:27:00,500 One of the questions that I have is, were there, things that 457 00:27:00,500 --> 00:27:05,200 would give you temporary relief. And and during those times of 458 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:09,000 temporary relief. Was it like another world? 459 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:12,200 Because I mean it's been so long since you have had relief from 460 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,900 this. Did you truly during any of 461 00:27:14,900 --> 00:27:17,600 those times know what it was like to be relieved of 462 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:19,200 depression? Even for a little while? 463 00:27:21,500 --> 00:27:25,200 Are you say no II? Definitely felt some relief, is 464 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:29,300 at the pressure had been relieved somewhat, but did I 465 00:27:29,308 --> 00:27:32,800 ever feel hope normal? No, I just knew that there's 466 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:39,100 something missing, but I still trudged on, you know, I still 467 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:46,500 and people mistook my Adventures as looking for the Holy Grail 468 00:27:46,700 --> 00:27:49,500 and and I wasn't I was just looking to feel better about 469 00:27:49,500 --> 00:27:53,400 myself and None of the measures were particularly effective. 470 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:57,700 They weren't know. They were, you know, most people 471 00:27:58,300 --> 00:28:00,800 they live their lives, you know, up here. 472 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,600 I was always down here to kind of below the surface of the 473 00:28:03,608 --> 00:28:06,800 steel striving to get up just to where they were or wasn't trying 474 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:08,900 to get up way above. That's not it. 475 00:28:08,900 --> 00:28:11,800 I just wanted to get up. There was nothing. 476 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:15,500 I really tried. I took courses. 477 00:28:17,100 --> 00:28:19,900 To better myself. I obtained my accounting 478 00:28:19,900 --> 00:28:23,600 designation, while it's working, taking my Certified Financial 479 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:29,500 Planning designation, and also the age 55 row of the last major 480 00:28:29,700 --> 00:28:34,000 self-help measure. I obtained my MBA and those were 481 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,900 all self-help measures to feel better and like, you know, you 482 00:28:36,900 --> 00:28:38,700 asked the question. Was there anything that 483 00:28:38,700 --> 00:28:41,700 relieved? They were they help but they 484 00:28:41,700 --> 00:28:47,500 certainly, you know, it might move beyond the scale of 1210 485 00:28:47,500 --> 00:28:50,700 from a 4 door 5 kind of thing but working with other people 486 00:28:50,700 --> 00:28:54,400 that are seven or eight on the scale, right thoroughly? 487 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:59,900 Was it was wasn't no. I I got to say this right here, 488 00:28:59,900 --> 00:29:03,100 right now and I'm certainly not the first person to say this to 489 00:29:03,100 --> 00:29:04,800 you. I am fucking impressive. 490 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:11,500 Your tenacity with your drive. Like, oh my God, that is that is 491 00:29:11,500 --> 00:29:17,200 unbelievable. The achievement that you Have 492 00:29:17,300 --> 00:29:23,000 made in the name of trying to find a way to break free of 493 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,400 this. There's a lot of people who just 494 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:27,600 take their ball and go home. You just say no. 495 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:29,200 Give me another ball. Let's play that one. 496 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:30,600 Let's play that one. Let's get it. 497 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:36,000 You know, let's, let's do this. So did you get to a point you've 498 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,300 tried all of these things? All of these drugs? 499 00:29:38,500 --> 00:29:41,000 I guess one question I'm going to ask is, is there anything 500 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,500 that you we gotta be careful with this? 501 00:29:43,500 --> 00:29:46,300 I'm just saying, anecdotally. I'm not, you know, neither of us 502 00:29:46,300 --> 00:29:47,700 are doctors. There's or anything like that. 503 00:29:47,700 --> 00:29:50,600 But, but at the end of the day, is there anything that that that 504 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:54,500 you would not recommend? Like are you are you if you 505 00:29:54,500 --> 00:29:55,800 could do it over again, would you say? 506 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:59,400 Okay, I'm not going to try that many drugs for example, or I'm 507 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:03,300 not going to go so far down any particular rabbit hole. 508 00:30:03,300 --> 00:30:07,200 Is there anything that you would would say was more ineffective? 509 00:30:09,100 --> 00:30:12,700 I would say not there. Really neutral one. 510 00:30:12,700 --> 00:30:15,600 I didn't mention which was Franklin's granddaddy of them. 511 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:19,000 All was about 10 years. Yeah, but 10 years ago. 512 00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:25,100 I undertook the deep brain stimulation is called which is 513 00:30:25,300 --> 00:30:28,500 most people are familiar obviously with the pacemaker for 514 00:30:28,500 --> 00:30:30,600 the heart. We'll listen. 515 00:30:34,100 --> 00:30:37,400 Research is the research candidate in in Toronto. 516 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,500 When the hospital's there for deep brain? 517 00:30:39,500 --> 00:30:43,100 Stimulation for the brain. And what it really Essence is 518 00:30:43,100 --> 00:30:45,500 pacemaker for the brain. So they drill two holes in your 519 00:30:45,500 --> 00:30:50,900 head, insert two, electrodes, and then put a wire under your, 520 00:30:51,100 --> 00:30:54,800 you know, skin to your heart or to your chest. 521 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:59,900 And the luck little electric impulse from the from the 522 00:30:59,900 --> 00:31:05,700 battery is Opposed to, you know, that's what the the hypothesis 523 00:31:05,700 --> 00:31:09,200 is is to solve the depression riddled. 524 00:31:09,900 --> 00:31:14,100 So is very much an undertaking because of lacking here, on top 525 00:31:14,100 --> 00:31:15,700 of my head. You can still see the bumps 526 00:31:15,700 --> 00:31:20,200 where they did the surgery and unfortunately, that was not 527 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,200 effective. And so that was, you know, 528 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,500 retrospective what I went through, took through cure for 529 00:31:26,500 --> 00:31:29,500 years before it was approved for the research and I was 530 00:31:29,500 --> 00:31:30,800 candidate. Number one. 531 00:31:32,100 --> 00:31:34,500 And what I want through and had to go to Toronto. 532 00:31:34,500 --> 00:31:37,600 Let three hours from Toronto. It was just it was a huge 533 00:31:38,100 --> 00:31:42,400 undertaking to no avail sulfur's one treatment. 534 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:46,400 I probably would question that for me. 535 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:52,800 Anyway, it just wasn't worth it. So, okay, you blow my mind. 536 00:31:54,200 --> 00:32:19,700 Yeah, I would say that. And right now about what what 537 00:32:19,700 --> 00:32:21,800 have been considered psychedelics, you know 538 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,500 psilocybin ketamine. All of these things. 539 00:32:24,500 --> 00:32:27,900 Here you go on down those paths to yes ketamine. 540 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,700 It was actually on the cover of Time Magazine a couple years 541 00:32:30,700 --> 00:32:33,800 ago. It was as the Most promising 542 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:38,400 breakthrough in depression treatment since I bleep Prozac. 543 00:32:38,500 --> 00:32:41,200 Yeah. Well, I tried that and ketamine. 544 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:46,300 If for the viewers of, you may have heard of it because it was 545 00:32:46,300 --> 00:32:48,300 a hippie drug of choice from the 60. 546 00:32:48,300 --> 00:32:50,200 So it's been around for a while. Sure. 547 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:54,700 And also lately, I think it's been abused as a date-rape drug, 548 00:32:54,700 --> 00:33:00,400 but it is when used medically it is been shown to be effective 549 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,700 for depression. So So I had that drug as well. 550 00:33:05,500 --> 00:33:07,200 I'm not. No, it didn't work. 551 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,700 You got a good buzz on it. Buzz off at from taking the drug 552 00:33:10,700 --> 00:33:14,500 because it was, it was intravenously administered right 553 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:19,000 in the, for the hour. So, great, great high, but then, 554 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:20,600 the war often, I was the end of that. 555 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,800 So I've been back. So that was another option of 556 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,500 the checked off. Okay. 557 00:33:26,500 --> 00:33:29,400 So we've done a phenomenal job. In my opinion here. 558 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,700 We've done a phenomenal job of talking about the journey where 559 00:33:32,700 --> 00:33:36,200 it started. The quest and in the things on 560 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,300 the journey. Now, we're on the other side of 561 00:33:38,300 --> 00:33:40,300 it. You've got the book out. 562 00:33:41,100 --> 00:33:42,700 What are the things that you've learned? 563 00:33:42,700 --> 00:33:44,900 And I mean, at the end of the day, I mean, I'm going to a 564 00:33:44,900 --> 00:33:46,900 place where we're talking about how, Okay. 565 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:49,600 This isn't a cure thing. This is a managing thing. 566 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,500 This is a thing that's learning how to manage is their 567 00:33:52,500 --> 00:33:55,400 happiness, for the people who are suffering with this that 568 00:33:55,400 --> 00:34:00,700 cannot cure, it cannot lick it. Can you on the other side of 569 00:34:00,700 --> 00:34:03,000 things, say that you're living a life that you want to live with 570 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,400 fulfillment and all of These things and let's get to the 571 00:34:05,408 --> 00:34:08,699 book. Well, it's an interesting 572 00:34:08,699 --> 00:34:15,500 question because I know rationally, I done well, but I 573 00:34:15,500 --> 00:34:18,300 feel like Spock from Star Trek. I just don't feel it 574 00:34:18,300 --> 00:34:21,800 emotionally, but I've accepted that fact that there's, you 575 00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,400 know, probably you'll never be quote, happy. 576 00:34:25,500 --> 00:34:27,900 I just the rationale realization that I've done. 577 00:34:27,900 --> 00:34:31,600 Well, I think is probably the best that I can, I can do. 578 00:34:32,900 --> 00:34:36,300 But I wouldn't want to sway the others from, you know, from from 579 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:41,699 trying to The happiness, but I think I've reached my Plateau as 580 00:34:41,699 --> 00:34:45,699 best. I can do the book itself, just 581 00:34:45,699 --> 00:34:49,300 add, it was actually a self-help measure that I wrote the book 582 00:34:49,699 --> 00:34:52,800 because I read that. If you write things that are in 583 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,900 your brain, so to speak, on the paper, release the depression 584 00:34:55,900 --> 00:35:01,200 and it's very therapeutic. I found to do so, and then when 585 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,600 covid have a couple years ago, I'd you know, I thought there 586 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:06,000 might be a message out there, I could share with others, 587 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,700 especially what the Onset of mental health issues since 588 00:35:09,700 --> 00:35:12,500 Coburg. Yeah, what led me to writing the 589 00:35:12,500 --> 00:35:16,700 book but as far as happiness goes is, not sure. 590 00:35:16,700 --> 00:35:22,100 But that one I I think it's just acceptance of where I am and 591 00:35:22,100 --> 00:35:25,400 what I have achieved which I think has been pretty pretty 592 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:30,200 good the arm, and the whole thing is A lot of these 593 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,700 accomplishments like the marathons and triathlons. 594 00:35:32,700 --> 00:35:35,100 If I have felt better about myself. 595 00:35:35,300 --> 00:35:37,300 I wouldn't have undertaken them. Because there would have been 596 00:35:37,300 --> 00:35:40,200 content with where I was. That is ironic. 597 00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:42,800 That's a little bit. That's a chicken egg thing. 598 00:35:44,300 --> 00:35:47,600 Every time I kept on moving back. 599 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,000 So I kept on, you know, I'd look for another goal. 600 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,700 There thing. I did in my, I'd like to travel 601 00:35:54,700 --> 00:35:58,600 and so I traveled all ten provinces in Canada. 602 00:35:59,700 --> 00:36:02,900 Two of the three territories. I still don't know book to 603 00:36:02,900 --> 00:36:06,100 finished yet. But I also traveled to all 50 of 604 00:36:06,107 --> 00:36:08,800 the United States. So, I was kind of another goal I 605 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,000 had. But again, once those goals are 606 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:12,700 done. I kind of the Finish Line keeps 607 00:36:12,700 --> 00:36:15,800 on moving back and comes to a point where you kind of have to 608 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:17,600 accept it, but it's very difficult to do. 609 00:36:18,300 --> 00:36:21,400 I am going to get you to hold up the book here in a second. 610 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,900 I'm interested in the title because at the end of the day, 611 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,800 we've set a table here, but the title is Breaking Free of 612 00:36:28,900 --> 00:36:32,000 Depressions grip, a powerful success story. 613 00:36:32,300 --> 00:36:35,200 So, even though you're saying, okay. 614 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,100 Well, yeah, I don't experience happiness. 615 00:36:37,100 --> 00:36:41,500 Say the same way that other people do, you know, but the 616 00:36:41,500 --> 00:36:45,400 title of the book is compelling to me because it feels like from 617 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:47,600 the title of the book. You have crossed the finish 618 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:49,000 line. And I know for a fact, you feel 619 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:50,300 that you have crossed the Finish Line. 620 00:36:50,500 --> 00:36:53,500 It's just not the finish line that you had maybe envisioned 621 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:55,900 and I want to maybe talk about that a little bit. 622 00:36:55,900 --> 00:36:59,600 Please hold the book up and tell us about it and And and where 623 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:01,600 can be found all of that stuff. Sure. 624 00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,800 So that's the title are the book right there and it's pretty 625 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:09,500 emblematic. I believe the runner on top of 626 00:37:09,508 --> 00:37:12,700 the mountains achieved, his goal, his or her goal. 627 00:37:13,100 --> 00:37:16,900 I think it's pretty positive pretty positive statement. 628 00:37:17,300 --> 00:37:21,900 But the Breaking Free of depressions grip. 629 00:37:22,100 --> 00:37:25,900 Really is most people, of course, the word Breaking Free, 630 00:37:26,100 --> 00:37:28,700 you know, suggest that the robotic and immediate ship. 631 00:37:28,900 --> 00:37:32,000 Of from one position to the other but my case is more of a 632 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,500 process of breaking free. So I was able to break free of 633 00:37:35,500 --> 00:37:39,400 depressions Griffin sense, the stigma attached to depression. 634 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:44,200 I felt comfortable enough. It was my own like to open up 635 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,600 about it a few years ago. So I broke free of that. 636 00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:53,500 So that's part of the the title and in just breaking free from 637 00:37:54,100 --> 00:37:56,200 how it govern me for all these years. 638 00:37:56,200 --> 00:38:00,700 You know, I've accepted, I have a mental Illness, but I live 639 00:38:00,700 --> 00:38:05,000 with it, cope with it manager. And, and I believed in my own 640 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:09,600 mind, have achieved, pretty, pretty positive results in my 641 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:14,600 life, with my family, with friends and my career. 642 00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,600 So, those are all positive accomplishments are broken free. 643 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:21,300 What would otherwise have held me back with depression. 644 00:38:21,300 --> 00:38:23,200 So that's really the title of the book. 645 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:27,300 That's what I believe. It's a success story that needs 646 00:38:27,300 --> 00:38:30,000 to be shared. It's in inspiring to me. 647 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:35,800 And, and, you know, it's not like you don't have moments of 648 00:38:35,900 --> 00:38:39,800 satisfaction or pleasure or happiness or things like that. 649 00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:43,300 Your version of those things are just a little bit different than 650 00:38:43,500 --> 00:38:46,800 maybe somebody who isn't, you know, and it's, and it's, and 651 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:50,600 it's the frustrating thing. What must be frustrating is that 652 00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:56,900 you don't necessarily see how you're experiencing life through 653 00:38:56,900 --> 00:39:00,400 media movies, things like that. It's not like it's talked about 654 00:39:00,500 --> 00:39:03,300 in a positive way, very much this way here. 655 00:39:03,500 --> 00:39:05,300 Even the books. Like I look there's not a lot of 656 00:39:05,300 --> 00:39:10,200 men that write books like this. I'm certain you must have have 657 00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:14,900 run into that when you were on your knowledge Quest as well. 658 00:39:14,900 --> 00:39:17,300 So it was that something that you were aware of when you're 659 00:39:17,300 --> 00:39:22,500 writing a book. I was statistically this been 660 00:39:22,500 --> 00:39:29,000 proved and demonstrated any way that women are more apt to have 661 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:32,400 depression than men. I was one point six times and 662 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:36,600 that's the statistic but what they don't know is whether or 663 00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:40,900 not that is really true whether or not women have depression 664 00:39:40,900 --> 00:39:45,200 more or if it's simply that women were more opted to, they 665 00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:47,000 talk about up, want to talk about it. 666 00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:52,600 Yeah. So I it was certainly are 667 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:55,700 certainly aware of that. The most oppression books are 668 00:39:55,700 --> 00:40:00,300 written by MDS or phds and if they're you know, which are men 669 00:40:00,300 --> 00:40:04,300 and women. But if their therapists that 670 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:10,900 other writers The Rock and women writers aren't too many men who 671 00:40:10,900 --> 00:40:14,300 opened up as I believe I have them pretty candid in the book, 672 00:40:14,700 --> 00:40:19,200 but what I dealt with and I like to think it's fairly Don't take 673 00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:22,800 revolutionary, but certainly Cutting Edge in the sense that 674 00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:28,200 I've been so open about my what, what transpired in the last 45 675 00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:31,200 years, which is kind of ironic too. 676 00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:33,700 Because I'm by Nature what a private person. 677 00:40:33,700 --> 00:40:38,600 But, yeah, the other, by the way, it hasn't escaped me that, 678 00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:42,100 you know, a lot of people, my wife and I wrote a book and it's 679 00:40:42,100 --> 00:40:44,200 a big thing. It's a big accomplishment just 680 00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:46,500 to even get the thing done. This is get across each other. 681 00:40:46,500 --> 00:40:49,700 The finish line. As an escape me that. 682 00:40:49,700 --> 00:40:52,200 Okay. Yeah, you know, you ran 683 00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:54,800 marathons, I half an Ironman, all that stuff. 684 00:40:55,300 --> 00:40:59,000 Got your MBA, all these things, and wrote a book, all in the 685 00:40:59,008 --> 00:41:01,900 name of, oh, maybe this will make me feel better, you know, 686 00:41:01,900 --> 00:41:07,100 and but the the best part about it though, is that maybe it 687 00:41:07,100 --> 00:41:09,500 didn't make you feel better. Other than that sense of 688 00:41:09,500 --> 00:41:12,600 accomplishment, which you have felt in so many other ways, but 689 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:18,500 you are breaking open the damn of vulnerability, to show other 690 00:41:18,500 --> 00:41:22,000 men. Men that there's hope and, and 691 00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:27,900 to give to give, you know, concrete examples, of things 692 00:41:27,900 --> 00:41:32,000 that can be done. Like, you went through a lot of 693 00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:34,800 dark times and I kind of want to know, like, like to our to our 694 00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:36,900 listeners and stuff. Let's see if there's any clues 695 00:41:36,900 --> 00:41:38,500 that we can leave them. What are some of the things that 696 00:41:38,500 --> 00:41:41,500 got you through the dark times that you have been through? 697 00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,800 Because it hasn't all been about being as productive as you can 698 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:46,900 and trying to, you know, focus on that solution. 699 00:41:46,900 --> 00:41:48,700 There have been some really hard times. 700 00:41:49,900 --> 00:41:52,300 And there are probably three things that got me through the 701 00:41:52,300 --> 00:41:57,100 dark times, what it was. I've always had pretty strong 702 00:41:57,100 --> 00:41:59,500 ethics and integrity. I'm not sure. 703 00:41:59,900 --> 00:42:02,700 Why, or how I got those except the ice. 704 00:42:03,100 --> 00:42:07,400 I've normally assume through genetic link to my parents, but 705 00:42:08,700 --> 00:42:12,800 Martin Luther King jr. Has always been one of my idols 706 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:16,300 and he had a quote, the time is always right to do, what's 707 00:42:16,300 --> 00:42:18,500 right? And I always adhere to that. 708 00:42:18,500 --> 00:42:22,400 I thought some comfort and living by that, even through the 709 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:24,300 dark times, that kind of got me through. 710 00:42:24,300 --> 00:42:27,300 So that was the number one thing my ethics Integrity. 711 00:42:27,900 --> 00:42:30,700 The second thing that got me through, we're friends when I 712 00:42:30,707 --> 00:42:34,500 was growing up at our, you know, years ago and even to this day 713 00:42:35,500 --> 00:42:38,900 they didn't know that I was dealing with depression and For 714 00:42:38,900 --> 00:42:40,600 the longest time. I didn't know myself as we 715 00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:43,800 talked about earlier, but there's some comfort that I had 716 00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:48,100 friends kind of an association logic in the sense that they 717 00:42:48,100 --> 00:42:52,100 were good people and they like me so that means I must be good 718 00:42:52,100 --> 00:42:53,700 person. So there's always kind of not 719 00:42:53,700 --> 00:42:56,000 logic there. But that kind of got me through. 720 00:42:56,700 --> 00:43:00,800 And then the other, the third component is my my wife Cheryl, 721 00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:05,300 we married 26 years and we have the lovely daughter Hannah, 722 00:43:05,700 --> 00:43:09,900 who's in her third year? Coincidentally of Ecology in 723 00:43:10,100 --> 00:43:14,500 McMaster University in Hamilton, and they've been very supportive 724 00:43:14,500 --> 00:43:17,900 and rock. For me, Rock of Gibraltar, both 725 00:43:17,900 --> 00:43:20,700 them. And so, those three components 726 00:43:20,700 --> 00:43:24,200 really got me through the dark times to where I am now is, 727 00:43:24,300 --> 00:43:26,100 let's talk about your daughter for a second here time. 728 00:43:26,100 --> 00:43:27,800 Get slippery. And so we got to we got to end 729 00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:29,000 it soon. First off. 730 00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:31,600 I hope this isn't the last time II feel like our paths are going 731 00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:32,400 to cross. Again. 732 00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:35,900 You certainly have provided a lot of tools for men and we want 733 00:43:35,900 --> 00:43:38,000 to we want to promote that as well and promote the book. 734 00:43:38,500 --> 00:43:43,100 But I just as we get into kind of the overtime here, your 735 00:43:43,100 --> 00:43:45,200 daughter is going through for psychology. 736 00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,400 And at what point, you know, so she's in her. 737 00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:49,800 She's in her 20s. I assume. 738 00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:54,100 Right now. We're at what point did she 739 00:43:54,100 --> 00:43:58,000 become aware that that you're going through this and you going 740 00:43:58,000 --> 00:43:59,800 through this? Does that have anything to do 741 00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:01,800 with the fact like the journey that you've had? 742 00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:04,600 Does that have anything to do with the fact that she went into 743 00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:08,700 psychology? Absolutely both counts. 744 00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:16,200 She tried to shelter from her. As long as I could frankly. 745 00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:21,800 I didn't want to burden her with with my challenges, but I did, 746 00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,300 you know, talk to her probably wouldn't use mid-teens. 747 00:44:24,300 --> 00:44:27,100 I suppose something like that. So she has a pretty good 748 00:44:27,100 --> 00:44:29,900 understanding or did have a pretty good understanding 749 00:44:29,900 --> 00:44:34,200 earlier out much earlier on what I'm dealing with and whether or 750 00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:41,100 not she this was A spur for her to to go into psychology is 751 00:44:41,100 --> 00:44:44,200 actually psychology with a concentration in neuroscience 752 00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:46,200 and behavior. So it's very much. 753 00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:48,500 Wow. It's great the same league. 754 00:44:49,700 --> 00:44:53,500 So it's very much in the realm of what I'm dealing with. 755 00:44:53,500 --> 00:44:55,400 And that's yes, it was a great influence. 756 00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:58,300 And that's one of the reach you want to go in with the into that 757 00:44:58,500 --> 00:45:03,200 area of for her career. So I hope she continues on so 758 00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:05,100 that's yeah. Well. 759 00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:10,000 I just another another one right there, where you you're so 760 00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:13,800 inspiring Bruce and I mean, you know, to the point where you're 761 00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:18,700 inspiring, you know, your own, your own kid, to do to move into 762 00:45:18,700 --> 00:45:21,000 this and and and and and Achieve. 763 00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:26,600 And and I just look at. I look at what you have done. 764 00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:29,500 You talk about taking a negative and turn it into a positive. 765 00:45:29,700 --> 00:45:33,800 You look at on paper, all of the positives that have come out of 766 00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:38,700 this and and and boy, Ii-i'm. Very, very inspired about what 767 00:45:38,700 --> 00:45:41,200 I'm hearing here. So thank you for for being open 768 00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:43,600 to sharing that vulnerabilities. A huge thing with men. 769 00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:47,900 You have like I said broken the damn of vulnerability and and 770 00:45:47,900 --> 00:45:49,900 just you get seems like you live there. 771 00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:53,000 I appreciate that as we kind of close up here. 772 00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:56,600 My final question for you. It's almost a review but not 773 00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:58,600 quite. It's sort of a sum up more than 774 00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:01,000 anything. You got guys, right now that are 775 00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:04,700 listening to this and some of them I'm certain are going to be 776 00:46:04,700 --> 00:46:06,000 having. Holy shit moments. 777 00:46:06,900 --> 00:46:11,000 Where where it's like OK, they're sick and tired of being 778 00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:15,300 sick and tired. If one of those guys if you now 779 00:46:15,300 --> 00:46:17,600 know that one of those guys is listening right now. 780 00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:21,100 What is some of the things that you've learned that you would 781 00:46:21,100 --> 00:46:25,200 like to share with them? Couple things. 782 00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:30,600 I think the younger long component, the basic started is 783 00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:33,200 to accept it. There's no shame in accepting 784 00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:36,400 get, you know, accepting the fact that you have a physical, 785 00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:41,500 almost as much as much as cancer is have diabetes or other 786 00:46:41,700 --> 00:46:44,800 physical illnesses. That's what dot depression is 787 00:46:45,100 --> 00:46:47,700 accept it. So then you can move on, you 788 00:46:47,700 --> 00:46:50,600 know, that's number one. No, shame in it. 789 00:46:51,100 --> 00:46:55,900 I want some no nevermind. So that would be the number one. 790 00:46:56,300 --> 00:47:00,700 Number two would be distressed. Stay strong and remain hopeful 791 00:47:01,500 --> 00:47:05,200 even though could be, you know, rocky road down down the way. 792 00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:08,600 Now, I say that, you know, knowing full well, that one of 793 00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:12,400 the underlying characteristics of depression is losing hope, 794 00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:15,700 but you have to stay strong and remain hopeful. 795 00:47:15,900 --> 00:47:18,900 And number three is be proactive. 796 00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:22,700 And again, I say that knowing that one of the underlying 797 00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:28,000 Symptoms of depression is giving up but remain proactive 798 00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:29,500 especially in our health care System. 799 00:47:29,500 --> 00:47:36,100 That's overburden notably since covid in specially, but if you 800 00:47:36,100 --> 00:47:39,600 fall off the treadmill, then the doctors are just going to 801 00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:42,600 continue on without you. So those are really three 802 00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:47,700 things, except that remain strong and be proactive. 803 00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:51,500 That is a phenomenal phenomenal advice. 804 00:47:51,500 --> 00:47:56,700 Very simple, easy to And I appreciate that very, very much. 805 00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:58,300 I'm going to throw a fourth one in there. 806 00:47:58,300 --> 00:48:00,600 The fourth one is and I'm going to get you to. 807 00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:02,500 I'm going to get it back to the screen back to you here. 808 00:48:02,500 --> 00:48:05,200 After I say it, the fourth thing is pick up a copy of Bruce's 809 00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:08,200 book because there is a powerful tool right there. 810 00:48:08,900 --> 00:48:12,100 If you're not ready to come out to everybody about how you're 811 00:48:12,100 --> 00:48:15,200 feeling or whatever. Sometimes getting some getting 812 00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:18,100 some information in the head is the way to do it as well. 813 00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:21,600 And we have an incredible resource Bruce if you wouldn't 814 00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:25,100 mind before, I take us home. Here, could you please show the 815 00:48:25,100 --> 00:48:27,800 book again? And can you please plug where to 816 00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:30,200 get the book? Your social media, anything like 817 00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:31,700 that? Your I know, so your speaker as 818 00:48:31,700 --> 00:48:34,000 well. And so, what are the best ways 819 00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:37,700 to get in contact with you regarding any of this stuff? 820 00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:39,500 Sure. Thank you for us. 821 00:48:39,500 --> 00:48:42,800 And let's agree. So, it's available in a couple 822 00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:43,900 of different sources. Of course. 823 00:48:43,900 --> 00:48:46,100 Number one is them of Amazon, right? 824 00:48:46,100 --> 00:48:50,300 What isn't able to purchase through Amazon today, but that's 825 00:48:50,300 --> 00:48:53,000 one place. I also have my own website, its 826 00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:55,500 Bruce R. So there's an extra iron, 827 00:48:55,500 --> 00:48:58,300 they're just beware. So because Bruce Ross was taken 828 00:48:58,300 --> 00:49:02,600 that domain name, Bruce Ross, .c egg and has pretty good 829 00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:06,800 information about my journey and you can buy the book through 830 00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:10,700 there as well. And also I'm going to go on a 831 00:49:10,700 --> 00:49:15,900 speaking tour soon. So one another option to get a 832 00:49:15,900 --> 00:49:19,500 hold of me as my emails Roderick and my middle name Roderick fine 833 00:49:19,500 --> 00:49:23,700 Scottish meaning rot or rust at gmail.com. 834 00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:26,600 So that's rotter cross at gmail.com. 835 00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:29,800 Love to hear from you. So that's really my plug. 836 00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:33,100 But that's, that's really it. It's like what can I say? 837 00:49:33,100 --> 00:49:35,700 It's a. It's a, I think it's a valuable 838 00:49:35,700 --> 00:49:39,200 read. There's no, there's no 839 00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:41,200 preaching. There's no judgment. 840 00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:44,100 No magic. Yours simply shares. 841 00:49:44,100 --> 00:49:48,200 A journey of what us like truly like from somebody who's lived 842 00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:52,700 it for 45 years. Bruce. 843 00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:58,400 I Can't thank you enough for taking your learning and 844 00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:00,100 transferring a big fan of the transfer of knowledge. 845 00:50:00,100 --> 00:50:03,300 I'm a huge fan of that. My life's purpose, I think is to 846 00:50:03,300 --> 00:50:05,800 be a conduit of that. I don't know enough to transfer 847 00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:09,000 any knowledge, but I can certainly help those who have 848 00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:12,500 that knowledge transfer it and that's what I think my role is 849 00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:16,100 with with, he changed it here. Certainly, we want to as he 850 00:50:16,100 --> 00:50:20,000 changed it grows and as our influence starts to become, you 851 00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:21,700 know, the goal Kandi and her team. 852 00:50:21,700 --> 00:50:23,600 The goal is to become a worldwide. 853 00:50:24,500 --> 00:50:29,400 Influencer and thought leader in this area, taking some of the 854 00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:33,400 beautiful things that that we find along the way and, and 855 00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:37,800 proclaiming them out as well. This is most certainly one of 856 00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:40,700 those beautiful things Bruce. I cannot thank you enough for 857 00:50:40,707 --> 00:50:43,000 being a part of this. I'm certain our paths. 858 00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:45,200 We're going to cross again. Let's make sure that that 859 00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:46,900 happens. Let's manifest that it happened 860 00:50:46,900 --> 00:50:49,500 sooner than later. Thank you very much for your 861 00:50:49,500 --> 00:50:51,300 time, man. We really appreciate it. 862 00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:53,900 Thank you mug, thanks for having me on the show. 863 00:50:54,300 --> 00:50:57,700 Like, give me the time to to express my views. 864 00:50:57,700 --> 00:50:58,800 That's awesome. Thank you. 865 00:50:58,808 --> 00:51:00,700 Very, I can't. Thank you enough. 866 00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:03,000 Oh man, the gratefulness goes both ways. 867 00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:06,400 You know, that's it. You know, these things I talked 868 00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:09,500 about how slippery time is when we when we do, he cast. 869 00:51:09,500 --> 00:51:11,000 It is the favorite time of my week. 870 00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:13,400 I hope it's also becoming the favorite time of yours. 871 00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:18,100 Thank you so much for taking time out of your day to watch us 872 00:51:18,100 --> 00:51:22,200 or to listen to us again. Download the he changed it up. 873 00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:25,100 Check it on out, search up here. Go to heat change it.com for all 874 00:51:25,100 --> 00:51:27,400 the details. If you like the podcast or the 875 00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:30,900 YouTube show, Please Subscribe. Please leave comments. 876 00:51:30,900 --> 00:51:34,300 Please like it and do all the things, share it around, all of 877 00:51:34,300 --> 00:51:37,000 that stuff, that he changed it over, Lord's, love that and they 878 00:51:37,008 --> 00:51:38,800 don't give me heck. When, when people are doing 879 00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:40,500 that. So, I've got a, I've got to keep 880 00:51:40,500 --> 00:51:42,000 asking for that. In the meantime though. 881 00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:45,800 This has been another episode of he cast the official podcast of 882 00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:48,700 he changed it. My name is Mike Chisholm go 883 00:51:48,700 --> 00:51:49,600 change. Something.