1 00:00:04,500 --> 00:00:06,000 You're listening to the reversing climate change, 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:09,100 podcast by the team at Nori. The carbon removal Marketplace. 3 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:11,700 This is a show about the innovators and entrepreneurs 4 00:00:11,700 --> 00:00:13,700 developing solutions to climate change. 5 00:00:15,500 --> 00:00:18,000 Hello and welcome to the reversing climate change podcast 6 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:19,800 with Nori. I'm Ross, Kenyan, I'm one of the 7 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:22,100 cofounders of nor in the creative editor here. 8 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:25,400 Today I have with me, Siobhan Montoya, lavender of, thanks to 9 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,500 Tom and also a meme writer author. 10 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:31,000 I don't know. There's me Means I should have 11 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:33,500 redundant author. Hey, Roz! 12 00:00:33,500 --> 00:00:35,900 How's it going? I feel like I messed up the 13 00:00:35,900 --> 00:00:38,200 taxonomy of what exactly that job should be called. 14 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:40,900 Literally every single time I've introduced to you, but glad glad 15 00:00:40,900 --> 00:00:42,200 you're here. That's okay. 16 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:43,500 I like that. We have encircled on it. 17 00:00:43,500 --> 00:00:45,700 I like that. It exists in the nebula space 18 00:00:45,700 --> 00:00:48,000 here. Also with us today is someone 19 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:50,900 with a proper title, we have with us Erica Reinhard, who is 20 00:00:50,900 --> 00:00:54,000 the co-founder and executive director of spark, a climate 21 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:55,100 Solutions. Thanks for coming. 22 00:00:55,100 --> 00:00:57,000 Erica. Yeah, you're welcome. 23 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:59,900 Thanks so much fun. Yeah, we are going to be talking 24 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,500 And Erica today about methane, which is a topic. 25 00:01:03,500 --> 00:01:07,500 I think we have not discussed enough on the Pod and is growing 26 00:01:07,500 --> 00:01:11,400 in the cultural like based of Interest, I believe we shall see 27 00:01:11,500 --> 00:01:13,300 what the receptions are once we are this. 28 00:01:13,300 --> 00:01:15,900 But I believe that people really want to know what's happening 29 00:01:15,900 --> 00:01:19,100 with methane and so today we're going to dive in, we're going to 30 00:01:19,107 --> 00:01:22,300 hear what the problem is with methane, what the solutions are 31 00:01:22,300 --> 00:01:25,500 and then what sparked climate is doing to address it, I think the 32 00:01:25,500 --> 00:01:27,800 only other time that we've really spoken in detail about 33 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:32,000 methane was near the beginning of the A shows start with Julio 34 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:34,300 Friedman. I remember we talked about Dairy 35 00:01:34,300 --> 00:01:37,600 lagoons and I think for a long time, I don't think I've heard 36 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:40,800 anything about methane forever because I know it's much more 37 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:43,200 dilute in the atmosphere. People have got their hands 38 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:45,000 full, just going to get carbon dioxide down or maybe there's 39 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:47,500 nothing destruction and landfills and that sort of 40 00:01:47,508 --> 00:01:50,000 thing, but it's always come up tangentially. 41 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:52,900 I think I hear about it a lot now where I didn't before or 42 00:01:52,900 --> 00:01:55,400 I'll say something about carbon dioxide removal and somebody 43 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:57,200 will jump up and do it. What about methane? 44 00:01:57,800 --> 00:01:59,800 Which I think is an important inject. 45 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,100 To have so. Okay, Erica tell us why we 46 00:02:03,100 --> 00:02:05,600 should care about methane. I thought it was just about 47 00:02:05,700 --> 00:02:07,800 carbon dioxide. Why should we care about this 48 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:12,600 greenhouse gas methane? Has a surprisingly large impact 49 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:14,400 on our warming. I think it's often 50 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:18,000 underestimated. So currently we have about one 51 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:23,500 point one degrees C of global temperature, rise and half a 52 00:02:23,500 --> 00:02:25,800 degree point five degrees of that is from methane. 53 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:30,000 So it's it's playing a really big role kind of right after ER 54 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:35,000 CO2 and so when we think about what does it take in order to 55 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:39,100 bring our temperatures down after we minimize Peak 56 00:02:39,100 --> 00:02:41,100 temperatures? Nothing has a really important 57 00:02:41,100 --> 00:02:44,900 role to play in parallel with carbon dioxide as well as all 58 00:02:44,900 --> 00:02:48,000 other greenhouse gases, just want to make sure, you know, 59 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:50,200 don't get completely ignored here. 60 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:54,600 I think part of the reason that methane recently has gotten a 61 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:58,100 lot more attention is as we grapple with what it would. 62 00:02:58,100 --> 00:03:02,400 Take to stay under one point, Ivor the to see guardrails given 63 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:07,100 where we're at there. Methane has to play a really 64 00:03:07,100 --> 00:03:11,500 important role in bringing temperatures in limiting, 65 00:03:11,500 --> 00:03:14,000 temperature, increase and bringing temperatures down. 66 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:19,700 And one of those reasons, only reasons behind that is that 67 00:03:19,700 --> 00:03:24,100 methane has a somewhat unique, girl, as a greenhouse gas in 68 00:03:24,100 --> 00:03:28,100 that it is short-lived. So when we emit carbon dioxide, 69 00:03:28,100 --> 00:03:30,700 it stays in the atmosphere for For centuries. 70 00:03:31,700 --> 00:03:35,600 And this is where you got that, you know, bathtub analogy, 71 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:38,300 right? We keep adding more CO2 into the 72 00:03:38,308 --> 00:03:40,800 bathtub. That's the spigot. 73 00:03:40,900 --> 00:03:45,000 And it's only with, you know, opening the drain or scaling 74 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:47,900 carbon dioxide removal that we can start bringing that level 75 00:03:47,900 --> 00:03:51,900 down. That is a really good analogy 76 00:03:51,900 --> 00:03:54,900 for carbon dioxide. It doesn't quite work that way 77 00:03:54,900 --> 00:04:01,600 for methane and that methane does naturally degrade in the On 78 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:04,400 the sphere, over a few decades and kind of, you know, 79 00:04:04,500 --> 00:04:10,000 quote-unquote, go away by itself and given where we're already at 80 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:13,100 given, how much carbon dioxide? There's the atmosphere given, 81 00:04:13,100 --> 00:04:15,800 how many other greenhouse gases are in the atmosphere? 82 00:04:16,399 --> 00:04:19,500 Our climate models are fundamentally, depending upon us 83 00:04:19,500 --> 00:04:23,200 dramatically, reducing our methane emissions. 84 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:27,600 So that our atmospheric methane levels come down over the next 85 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:31,300 few decades and basically free up some temperature before. 86 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:34,300 Buffer for that CO2. Transition. 87 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:39,500 And so at this point, the really is no way of hitting these 88 00:04:39,500 --> 00:04:44,100 targets, without methane playing a really important contribution 89 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:48,000 to Bringing Down our overall emissions and helping to 90 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:51,300 decrease the methane portion of our warming. 91 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:55,800 So if we are to ignore methane and just focus on other 92 00:04:55,800 --> 00:05:00,000 greenhouse gases, we would be ignoring roughly 25% of, today's 93 00:05:00,500 --> 00:05:02,400 global warming. Is that true that accounts for 94 00:05:02,407 --> 00:05:04,800 roughly a quarter of temperature warming? 95 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:09,400 Even more than that actually. And So currently it's half a 96 00:05:09,407 --> 00:05:11,500 degree out of one point one degrees. 97 00:05:11,500 --> 00:05:14,900 So whatever that you know, 40th percentile, that works out to 98 00:05:14,900 --> 00:05:16,100 be. Wow. 99 00:05:16,100 --> 00:05:20,100 So super significant, if you also look at today's emissions 100 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:23,700 and you look at what impact those emissions are, A have in 101 00:05:23,700 --> 00:05:27,200 the near term nothing. Similarly has a really really 102 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:32,600 large role and that is really because of how potent it is. 103 00:05:32,900 --> 00:05:38,200 So the global warming potential which is kind of measure of how 104 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:46,500 potent a greenhouse gasses compared to C A2 is about 124 105 00:05:46,700 --> 00:05:49,200 methane. Right, when it's released and 106 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:53,200 then it decreases over time. And so by the time your Looking 107 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:57,100 at a 20 year average the here number, like 86 someone's. 108 00:05:57,100 --> 00:05:59,700 You're looking at 100 year average or looking at something 109 00:05:59,700 --> 00:06:05,100 closer to 30 to 35 but it's incredibly potent. 110 00:06:05,100 --> 00:06:08,200 And so when we are, we think about what? 111 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:09,600 Impact? Where missions today? 112 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:15,100 Have in the next few decades, the impact of methane is quite 113 00:06:15,100 --> 00:06:17,000 large. And of course this is a temp, 114 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:19,300 same time frame on which we're talking about. 115 00:06:19,300 --> 00:06:22,600 How do we slow temperature increase? 116 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:26,200 As these impacts are becoming more evident. 117 00:06:26,300 --> 00:06:29,200 How do we minimize our Peak temperatures? 118 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:34,600 If we are to hopefully succeed at achieving Peak temperatures 119 00:06:34,900 --> 00:06:37,700 and some methane can play a really important role in 120 00:06:37,700 --> 00:06:43,400 addition to dramatic carbon dioxide emissions reductions, as 121 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:48,900 well as the scaling up of carbon dioxide removal to really bring 122 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:52,000 to enable us to Peak or temperatures and bring those 123 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:55,200 Peak temperatures. Down which will have many 124 00:06:55,200 --> 00:07:00,600 positive impacts so you know directly on human society as 125 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:04,900 well as helping to reduce some of the natural feedbacks in 126 00:07:04,900 --> 00:07:06,900 Tipping Point risks that we otherwise face. 127 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:13,100 The explanation that I've heard this is the PE teacher who has 128 00:07:13,100 --> 00:07:16,500 to fill in for the science teacher version but that methane 129 00:07:16,900 --> 00:07:21,200 turns into CO2 at some point it just becomes CO2 or degrades 130 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:24,300 through through UV or something like that or if you're getting 131 00:07:24,300 --> 00:07:27,700 if your pork you're burning methane which is as far as I 132 00:07:27,707 --> 00:07:29,500 understand it, the same as natural gas. 133 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:32,300 It just turns into your one of the byproducts is CO2. 134 00:07:32,500 --> 00:07:35,700 That's all correct. Yeah, so there's a number of 135 00:07:35,700 --> 00:07:39,600 different oxidation processes, but the primary output of those 136 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:41,700 oxidation process is carbon dioxide. 137 00:07:43,100 --> 00:07:47,500 So that is that is correct that that is kind of what the carbon 138 00:07:47,500 --> 00:07:52,600 and methane gets converted to. When you look at what happens 139 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:56,600 when you emit methane into the atmosphere, what happens is that 140 00:07:56,600 --> 00:08:00,900 you have methane or some period of time, and then it goes 141 00:08:00,900 --> 00:08:03,300 through one of these sink processes. 142 00:08:04,300 --> 00:08:08,800 One of these oxidation processes where it is converted to carbon 143 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:13,200 dioxide and water usually and a few other byproducts. 144 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:19,100 And so while it is absolutely true, that emitted, methane does 145 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:25,900 result long-term also in CO2 that long-term, CO2 impact ends 146 00:08:25,900 --> 00:08:31,500 up being kind of a minor overall factor in comparison to that 147 00:08:31,700 --> 00:08:34,100 short-term warming. But it does lead to long term. 148 00:08:34,299 --> 00:08:37,900 Warming as well. It's pretty amazing that it can 149 00:08:37,900 --> 00:08:41,900 be improved or the radiative forcing potential of this gas 150 00:08:41,900 --> 00:08:45,200 would be improved by converting. It into CO2, I think people 151 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:48,200 think of carbon dioxide as the main villain here and maybe 152 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:52,000 maybe in general, it is, but it's pretty interesting to think 153 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:55,300 that in some ways, CO2 would be preferable to methane. 154 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:58,000 Absolutely, this is actually the potent point, right? 155 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:03,500 This little molecule is strong little guy, it's not on the end, 156 00:09:03,500 --> 00:09:08,100 so as much as we can, You know, first prevent them going into 157 00:09:08,100 --> 00:09:12,400 the atmosphere and then get them out of the atmosphere via that 158 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:16,600 conversion process makes a big difference from some very rough 159 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:20,700 calculations. It looks like on a molecule by 160 00:09:20,700 --> 00:09:26,400 molecule basis as opposed to a tonnage basis that you can 161 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:30,100 basically think about the warming impact of a molecule of 162 00:09:30,100 --> 00:09:37,000 methane, being about 40 times as strong as In molecule of CO2, 163 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:41,500 which just shows you how? Yeah, I'm very, I listened to 164 00:09:41,500 --> 00:09:45,600 Ryan or back on the Catalyst with Shao Kahn businessmen, like 165 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:48,500 six months or a year ago, talking about how he wishes that 166 00:09:49,100 --> 00:09:52,100 offsetting and crediting were denominated in terms of 167 00:09:52,100 --> 00:09:54,200 radiative forcing rather than tonnage. 168 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:59,100 It is dropped a big, big. I don't know. 169 00:09:59,100 --> 00:10:02,300 If you saw the Blended time white paper that we published 170 00:10:02,300 --> 00:10:06,700 last week, I did cool like One of the I like possible Blends 171 00:10:06,700 --> 00:10:08,200 for the future. I was thinking is what if you 172 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:10,700 had end and you could do something like methane 173 00:10:10,700 --> 00:10:14,900 destruction, maybe did like 1/40 of a molecule of methane was 174 00:10:14,900 --> 00:10:18,400 destroyed and then you stored. The the carbon dioxide that 175 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:22,700 resulted in a sink. Land-based carbon sink like soil 176 00:10:22,700 --> 00:10:25,100 for 10 years until you had a permanent removal. 177 00:10:25,100 --> 00:10:27,700 Come and stop. It is that not like the perfect 178 00:10:27,700 --> 00:10:31,700 end to end solution for like like a full cycle carbon acid 179 00:10:31,700 --> 00:10:33,600 that's Blended together. That's the combo. 180 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:36,300 I love that. We're In straight to radiative 181 00:10:36,300 --> 00:10:44,500 forcing credits here. So I mean in any animals have to 182 00:10:44,500 --> 00:10:47,200 go back to what our core goals are right, which is making sure 183 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:51,100 that were mitigating overall warming as much as we safely can 184 00:10:51,100 --> 00:10:55,200 at every point in time and so all these different approaches 185 00:10:55,300 --> 00:10:57,400 permanent carbon dioxide. Removals temporary carbon 186 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:02,100 dioxide removals potentially in the future methane removals. 187 00:11:02,300 --> 00:11:06,000 All are going to have so a different shape of packed right 188 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:10,000 of how much warming mitigation potential do they have and on 189 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:14,500 what time frame. And so, I think our Collective 190 00:11:14,500 --> 00:11:18,900 job is to figure out how we can accelerate all these different 191 00:11:18,900 --> 00:11:24,000 categories of solutions. And then, you know, deploy them 192 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:28,700 in an appropriate and responsible ways to help to 193 00:11:28,700 --> 00:11:31,800 bring a 24 thing down at every point in time. 194 00:11:32,700 --> 00:11:36,400 Independent that sometimes of which Specific gas. 195 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,600 It is and instead make sure that we're pulling all of these tools 196 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,900 together in the most comprehensive ways we do need to 197 00:11:42,900 --> 00:11:45,400 be careful. We talk about any sort of 198 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:50,700 crediting that in those situations in particular where 199 00:11:50,700 --> 00:11:54,300 you're sort of setting up for there to be trade-offs between 200 00:11:55,600 --> 00:12:00,600 between different activities that those activities do fully 201 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:04,200 cancel each other out. And so that sort of look at 202 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:08,800 impact over time is particularly important. 203 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,800 Of course, there are many ways of deploying solutions, that 204 00:12:12,500 --> 00:12:15,200 don't create those those trade-offs and we should be 205 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:18,000 pursuing those as aggressively. How are you thinking about the 206 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:21,200 time value of carbon? Should we be thinking about the 207 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:25,400 radiative forcing over decades? Or I know a lot of the drive 208 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:28,300 towards permanent carbon removal, my guess is a lot of it 209 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:31,900 remains a political economy question, where we just were in 210 00:12:31,900 --> 00:12:34,100 a carbon accounting world. We don't want corporations to be 211 00:12:34,108 --> 00:12:37,600 greenwashing by Burning fossil fuel and then negating it with 212 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:40,800 temporary storage, but if you thought about it from a more 213 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:44,300 radiative forcing angle, should we be looking at the decade 214 00:12:44,300 --> 00:12:46,000 scale? Is it more important to stop 215 00:12:46,100 --> 00:12:50,300 climate change in the Centre? And the permanence is a nice 216 00:12:50,300 --> 00:12:52,900 thing to think about later. How much of this is impacted by 217 00:12:52,900 --> 00:12:56,200 carbon accounting. Enormous question, good luck 218 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:59,400 Erica, thanks for sending me all the easy ones today. 219 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:07,000 I think about it differently, I think which is how many that we 220 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:14,900 need to be very aware of and prioritizing both near-term and 221 00:13:14,900 --> 00:13:19,700 long-term warming. And wherever we can really 222 00:13:19,700 --> 00:13:23,200 pursuing both to the maximal degree because these things 223 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:26,100 can't shouldn't be traded off from each other. 224 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:32,000 And we don't want to be making the problem worse for future 225 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:37,300 generations to try to solve and No, I think our our current 226 00:13:37,300 --> 00:13:41,500 carbon with chocolate metrics, for example, really is anchored 227 00:13:41,500 --> 00:13:46,700 around long-term warming, right? We talked about gwp 100, that is 228 00:13:46,700 --> 00:13:51,700 the average global warming. Potential impact of an emission 229 00:13:51,700 --> 00:13:55,300 average over a hundred years. When we look at something like 230 00:13:55,400 --> 00:14:02,100 methane, methane, is starts incredibly potent, right about 231 00:14:02,100 --> 00:14:06,800 120 times. In the impact of CO2 on a 232 00:14:06,808 --> 00:14:11,300 percentage basis and goes down significantly over time. 233 00:14:11,700 --> 00:14:14,700 And what we see is that when we start just averaging to 100 234 00:14:14,700 --> 00:14:16,600 years, you actually lose those Dynamics. 235 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,300 We don't take those into account. 236 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:24,500 And so rather than thinking about kind of at what point in 237 00:14:24,500 --> 00:14:27,200 time, do you want to optimize? I'm really much more interested 238 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:31,800 in. How do we pursue actions that 239 00:14:31,900 --> 00:14:37,000 help us optimize at all and just generally Understand the system 240 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:44,200 better because for example if we have really high overshoot on 241 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:49,800 the way to coming back down and still by 2100 reaching 1.5 but 242 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:54,300 say you know, peaking at 2 degrees Celsius along the way 243 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:57,700 that has a lot of impacts. There's a lot of impacts on 244 00:14:57,900 --> 00:15:03,300 human systems due to we're just talking before about the heat 245 00:15:03,300 --> 00:15:07,100 wave going on. And that also has impacts on 246 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:12,300 natural systems and how those impact humans and some of those 247 00:15:12,300 --> 00:15:14,300 are going to be irreversible changes. 248 00:15:14,300 --> 00:15:21,200 And so we need to be very cautious about what warming we 249 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:24,900 have at every point in time to help us avoid those risks. 250 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:30,000 When we talk right now about like 1.5 degrees scenarios, I 251 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:33,700 think it's important to talk about what those numbers 252 00:15:33,700 --> 00:15:36,000 actually. Those Celsius numbers, kind of 253 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:39,200 mean in those models, which is talking about our temperature in 254 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:43,800 2100, it's not time at the curvature of our temperature 255 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:47,300 from here to there and depending on what model were looking at, 256 00:15:47,300 --> 00:15:51,800 they can very well write, you can have 1.5 stay with high over 257 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:55,200 shoe which means we go a lot higher than 1.5. 258 00:15:55,700 --> 00:15:59,100 Then we slowly come back up and 1.5 and maybe at 2100, right? 259 00:15:59,100 --> 00:16:03,700 We are on a downward horse. Stable trajectory 1.5 If you 260 00:16:03,700 --> 00:16:09,100 look at some of the three or four degrees C models at 2100, 261 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,300 those usually still have upward slopes at 2100, right? 262 00:16:12,300 --> 00:16:16,200 It's not actually saying that those models would have US 263 00:16:17,300 --> 00:16:18,900 state, you know, quote, quote stabilize. 264 00:16:18,900 --> 00:16:21,700 That also be very unstable state, but, you know, stabilize 265 00:16:21,700 --> 00:16:24,300 it three or four degrees, whatever those models are. 266 00:16:25,300 --> 00:16:27,900 It's actually saying that at this point of time, between 100, 267 00:16:27,900 --> 00:16:30,300 that's where we'd roughly be expected to be, but in those 268 00:16:30,300 --> 00:16:33,200 cases, are usually still, you know, on and off. 269 00:16:33,300 --> 00:16:37,700 Upward trajectory I'm kind of curious for those of our 270 00:16:37,700 --> 00:16:39,700 listeners who are new to methane. 271 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,200 Could you tell us a little bit about where does Methane come 272 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,100 from? Why, how much of it is 273 00:16:44,100 --> 00:16:46,300 anthropogenic? How much is natural? 274 00:16:46,700 --> 00:16:48,500 Why is this becoming such a big problem? 275 00:16:49,500 --> 00:16:53,900 Most of the elevated methane, emissions are anthropogenic 276 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:58,000 there have always been natural emissions from systems like 277 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:00,600 wetlands and there's slow. But from termites, which is a 278 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:03,900 fun fact. Most of the Mission stay or 279 00:17:03,900 --> 00:17:07,000 anthropogenic and those come from a few different sectors. 280 00:17:07,599 --> 00:17:12,800 Agriculture is a very big sector primarily driven by a livestock, 281 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:17,900 as well as rais'd oil and gas is about about the next kind of 282 00:17:17,900 --> 00:17:24,000 third largely coming from leaks and different operational 283 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:28,400 practices and a different sort of industrial processes. 284 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:32,900 Actually just in do leaked men, do have some methane. 285 00:17:33,300 --> 00:17:37,000 Emissions related to them today. And there's also number of 286 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:41,400 waste, sectors. So landfills are a big generator 287 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:45,100 of methane as our Wastewater systems. 288 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:50,200 So these categories are fairly different than see the CO2 289 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:55,400 categories, obviously High overlap in oil and gas but you 290 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:58,700 know, when we talk about CO2 were were not as focused on 291 00:17:59,100 --> 00:18:02,100 agriculture and waste usually, and I think this is part of the 292 00:18:02,100 --> 00:18:04,600 ship that has to happen there. Only recognizing all of the 293 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:08,800 different sectors that are contributing to climate change 294 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:13,000 right now and emissions and making sure that we have plans 295 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:18,400 on engaging with all of them. Yeah, I'm curious because, you 296 00:18:18,408 --> 00:18:21,500 know, you're talking to two carbon dioxide removal nerds. 297 00:18:21,900 --> 00:18:24,400 I certainly got, I got introduced to carbon dioxide 298 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:28,300 through my Master's Degree where I spent measuring carbon fluxes 299 00:18:28,300 --> 00:18:31,100 using the Eddy covariance technique over mixed Urban 300 00:18:31,100 --> 00:18:33,000 ecosystems. And then I was like, woah. 301 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,400 CO2 CO2, CO2, this is fascinating. 302 00:18:36,500 --> 00:18:39,600 You took a different trajectory and you ended up at methane and 303 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:43,100 I'm really curious how you decided to care about methane 304 00:18:43,100 --> 00:18:45,100 and engage with methane. And then why you decided to I 305 00:18:45,108 --> 00:18:49,000 found a two found spark and then what you guys are doing its part 306 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:53,100 to address nothing. Yeah so the way I got to methane 307 00:18:53,100 --> 00:18:57,500 was really trying to understand all the different pieces of what 308 00:18:57,500 --> 00:19:01,600 needed to happen and what was happening and methane coming up 309 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:08,800 as needing to be a very large priority given its large role in 310 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:12,100 overall warming and particularly having this really important 311 00:19:12,100 --> 00:19:16,100 role in helping us to mitigate near-term temperatures and Peak 312 00:19:16,100 --> 00:19:17,300 temperatures that need to happen. 313 00:19:17,300 --> 00:19:22,700 Quickly order to achieve that rule and seeing That we are 314 00:19:22,700 --> 00:19:28,200 really behind on being able to achieve those goals or a wide 315 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:32,300 number of reasons. But you know, we were only now 316 00:19:32,300 --> 00:19:36,400 having this so called methane moment, which is wonderful. 317 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:40,600 I'm so glad we're here and that it is getting more attention, 318 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:45,200 but the work isn't, it's relatively early days especially 319 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:48,800 compared to many parts of CO2 related work. 320 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:55,300 And one of the resulting challenges in the methane space 321 00:19:55,300 --> 00:20:02,000 right now is that we don't have full Suite of ready solutions to 322 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,100 deploy. So there's really an important 323 00:20:04,100 --> 00:20:08,200 work going into deploying that solutions that we do have and 324 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:13,900 also there's a lot of innovation needed in order to more fully 325 00:20:13,900 --> 00:20:18,000 flesh out, the portfolio of things that we can do to 326 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:21,700 mitigate the rest of the anthem. Oh Jenna commissions for which 327 00:20:21,700 --> 00:20:25,800 we don't have Solutions the other piece of methane. 328 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:30,900 Overall you're asking before about internet versus National 329 00:20:30,900 --> 00:20:34,700 emissions right now, anthropogenic emissions are the 330 00:20:34,700 --> 00:20:37,900 vast majority of elevated methane emissions. 331 00:20:38,300 --> 00:20:45,200 However, due to our current kind of warming trajectory there are 332 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,800 increasing risks and increasing evidence as a starting to 333 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:51,800 happen. Natural systems emitting more 334 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:57,100 methane and that's a risk that hasn't been fully incorporated 335 00:20:57,100 --> 00:21:01,800 into our ipcc modeling. For there are really high, 336 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:05,300 scientific uncertainties still and we don't really have 337 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:08,700 anything directly to do about it, which is sort of, 338 00:21:09,100 --> 00:21:11,100 additionally scary. So tons of working with a needs 339 00:21:11,100 --> 00:21:15,600 to happen across all different flavors of work from Innovation 340 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:20,300 to policy change and incentivization to Actually, 341 00:21:20,300 --> 00:21:26,000 making the changes, the ground. And so one of the big motivators 342 00:21:26,100 --> 00:21:32,400 are starting spark, was to be able to focus on a few of the 343 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:39,100 sectors related to unmitigated or not fully mitigated risks 344 00:21:39,100 --> 00:21:44,700 that we saw in the system that weren't yet getting the level of 345 00:21:44,700 --> 00:21:46,600 attention that would give us comfort. 346 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:51,600 That those risks would be resolved by existing And that 347 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:55,100 led us to methane has a really important near-term priority. 348 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:59,200 And so, the two areas we've been focused on so far to date, have 349 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,100 been, and tareq methane mitigation. 350 00:22:02,100 --> 00:22:04,600 So, this is colloquially cow burps. 351 00:22:05,500 --> 00:22:09,200 It's roughly a third ever methane emissions or just from 352 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:13,400 cow burps. And then we're also looking at 353 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:15,900 atmospheric methane removal, which is potentially a 354 00:22:15,900 --> 00:22:18,200 particularly interest to the carbon dioxide removal. 355 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:19,700 Folks, listening to this podcast. 356 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,100 Cast, which is trying to understand. 357 00:22:22,100 --> 00:22:27,500 If there are ways that we might be able to accelerate the 358 00:22:27,900 --> 00:22:32,300 atmospheric methane sink, in some ways analogous to the 359 00:22:32,300 --> 00:22:35,600 carbon sinks, but different given how the molecule acts 360 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:40,900 differently in order to help draw down some of that warming 361 00:22:40,900 --> 00:22:43,500 from historical methane emissions faster. 362 00:22:43,900 --> 00:22:48,100 The natural systems would alone as well as build a tool that 363 00:22:48,100 --> 00:22:50,900 could be deployed on top of methane. 364 00:22:50,900 --> 00:22:54,000 Emissions. Reductions in order to help 365 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:58,300 mitigate some of the impact of elevated, natural methane 366 00:22:58,300 --> 00:23:01,800 emissions, for which we don't currently have any other 367 00:23:01,900 --> 00:23:07,300 Immediate Solutions, There's a lot to ask about here, but maybe 368 00:23:07,300 --> 00:23:09,300 we'll cut to the chase for our listeners that I can. 369 00:23:09,300 --> 00:23:12,900 And will go roll the clock back here and start at the beginning. 370 00:23:13,100 --> 00:23:16,100 But I've always heard that methane is both more dilute in 371 00:23:16,100 --> 00:23:19,000 the atmosphere and ambient air than carbon dioxide. 372 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,500 And it's also a less reactive molecule than carbon dioxide. 373 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:27,200 So, it's harder than carbon dioxide to actually practice 374 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,500 active removal or are those things true, or, or no? 375 00:23:31,700 --> 00:23:35,800 It is absolutely more dilute that is somewhat made up for by 376 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:40,200 how much more potent, it is on a per molecule basis. 377 00:23:41,500 --> 00:23:46,900 For, I know a given volume of air, the going back to your 378 00:23:46,900 --> 00:23:49,700 radio, forcing comment before, and you do more radiative 379 00:23:49,700 --> 00:23:54,700 forcing, from CO2, then from permanently midair, but it's 380 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:57,600 methane is a pretty significant chunk. 381 00:23:59,700 --> 00:24:07,100 The one thing is actually very reactive, which is why we do, 382 00:24:07,100 --> 00:24:12,300 see that it has. This short-lived dynamic in the 383 00:24:12,300 --> 00:24:15,100 atmosphere, is that it is undergoing these reactions, but 384 00:24:15,100 --> 00:24:21,500 it is a lot harder to capture. So whereas for carbon dioxide, 385 00:24:21,500 --> 00:24:25,700 we think about capturing that molecule and then storing it for 386 00:24:25,700 --> 00:24:27,900 methane. We really think about how do we 387 00:24:28,100 --> 00:24:33,000 sort of catalytically. Net and destruction is that I've 388 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,600 always heard, right? Yeah, this yeah, just destroy 389 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:39,200 it. Convert it to again, primarily 390 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,400 water and CO2 are the byproducts of those reactions. 391 00:24:43,100 --> 00:24:44,900 That's where we come from probably. 392 00:24:44,900 --> 00:24:47,800 It's been a primarily one of methane, destruction of the term 393 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:49,600 effort for young years and years. 394 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:51,500 At this point, it's not necessarily a new idea, such 395 00:24:51,500 --> 00:24:54,500 with landfills being able to like glare off the gas, that's 396 00:24:54,500 --> 00:24:57,900 collected as pretty common. There'll be other things that 397 00:24:57,900 --> 00:25:00,300 we've done with. Methane emissions debate, to, 398 00:25:00,300 --> 00:25:03,000 I've heard eating seaweed to cows various types of see. 399 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:04,800 We can reduce the, the methane burps. 400 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:08,500 Here, are there other things like that that are either 401 00:25:08,500 --> 00:25:11,100 waiting to be scaled, or have already been tried, but are not 402 00:25:11,100 --> 00:25:13,600 enough, like, we're have. We started and where are we 403 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:18,000 going with methane? So there are lots of available 404 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,500 solutions that we need to be deploying as quickly as we can. 405 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:26,100 And basically every sector has some portion of the emissions 406 00:25:26,100 --> 00:25:29,200 that are able to be addressed today, those are going to 407 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:33,400 obviously very bisectors to what they are, but you brought up 408 00:25:33,900 --> 00:25:38,200 landfill flaring. So when we think about existing 409 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,700 solutions for destroying methane, those are those really 410 00:25:41,700 --> 00:25:45,300 apply to high concentrations of methane emissions. 411 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:50,500 So flaring for example, combustion works at, we have to 412 00:25:50,508 --> 00:25:53,500 have at least four percent methane in that Airstream. 413 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:57,300 And there are some other technologies that bring that 414 00:25:57,300 --> 00:26:02,500 concentration of carbonate down. But still don't address, many 415 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:06,000 many emissions sources. There are things that we can do 416 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:09,300 Upstream of that though before we talk about layering or 417 00:26:09,300 --> 00:26:13,900 combusting it in different ways to avoid that methane being 418 00:26:13,900 --> 00:26:15,600 generated in the first place there. 419 00:26:15,700 --> 00:26:19,600 Behavioral changes that we can make to avoid within each other 420 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:23,300 in the first place. So, for example, diverting food 421 00:26:23,300 --> 00:26:29,500 waste from landfills helps to prevent that food from then 422 00:26:29,900 --> 00:26:33,400 becoming methane in the landfill of being leaked. 423 00:26:33,500 --> 00:26:36,000 So that's kind of the most Upstream thing we can do. 424 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:41,800 And then there are ways that we can even once even sort of 425 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:45,300 without that behavior change in some cases that we can prevent 426 00:26:45,300 --> 00:26:49,200 that, And from being created or being emitted to the atmosphere. 427 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:53,400 And so, the seaweed example you brought up is for cows for 428 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,400 enteric. Emissions is cow burps. 429 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,600 Basically, there are some things that are being studied that we 430 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:04,900 might be able to feed cows that would change their digestive 431 00:27:04,900 --> 00:27:10,700 systems such that they were producing less methane, seaweed 432 00:27:10,700 --> 00:27:14,200 is being studied. There's an additive a feed 433 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:18,900 additive called 3 N O P. That is being deployed in Europe 434 00:27:18,900 --> 00:27:24,100 right now. There are other just changes in 435 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:28,800 kind of overall feed ratios that can be made without any 436 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:30,000 additives. And then there's a lot of 437 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:34,900 research going into other methods that may be helpful here 438 00:27:34,900 --> 00:27:38,800 as well. And so, the across categories, 439 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:40,900 there's there's there's a portion of things that we can 440 00:27:40,900 --> 00:27:44,700 do, but there are these Really large categories where we don't 441 00:27:44,700 --> 00:27:49,500 have ready Solutions yet and so one of those is grazing cows. 442 00:27:49,500 --> 00:27:55,300 We don't yet have a way or a cow that isn't constantly being fed 443 00:27:55,300 --> 00:28:00,100 something by a farmer where feed additive could be added in order 444 00:28:00,100 --> 00:28:02,000 to bring those methane emissions down. 445 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,900 And so there are these kind of really large Innovation 446 00:28:04,900 --> 00:28:11,000 categories across sectors that will help us to add ready 447 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:14,600 solutions to the portfolio. That can you know, once they're 448 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,000 ready. Also be deployed and further 449 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,900 enable us to bring our antigenic emissions down there. 450 00:28:21,300 --> 00:28:25,100 I know you have more to say but I love the idea that feedlots 451 00:28:25,100 --> 00:28:27,800 just because I have food additives that can be done in a 452 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,900 centralized kind of way, man. It creating at least on one 453 00:28:30,900 --> 00:28:34,700 metric. A more ecological beef product. 454 00:28:34,900 --> 00:28:38,000 It's going to make everyone's head explode and that's one 455 00:28:38,500 --> 00:28:41,200 Isabel, is it? I mean, in Earth, small potatoes 456 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,600 in comparison to like, Reducing the amount of livestock on the 457 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:49,700 planet period like like although the runoff is all toxic and this 458 00:28:49,700 --> 00:28:53,100 is 2 by 1 metric only. But you know, they're going to 459 00:28:53,100 --> 00:28:57,700 spend all of these systems have many trade-offs that needs to be 460 00:28:57,700 --> 00:29:01,400 looked at you know very holistically so that we don't 461 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:07,500 often my systems around any single metrics that might that 462 00:29:07,500 --> 00:29:11,600 might, you know, blind us to the full, the full ecosystem and 463 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:13,200 system. In fact, that were having Sorry, 464 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:14,900 Erica. I heard the one little factoid. 465 00:29:14,900 --> 00:29:17,200 The now I'm going to repeat at parties for the next three 466 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,100 decades. Please don't necessarily do you 467 00:29:20,108 --> 00:29:21,500 want to hear? Thank you. 468 00:29:21,700 --> 00:29:24,500 That's all where we headed the like. 469 00:29:24,500 --> 00:29:26,500 Oh sorry. Chevy, you know, I know God. 470 00:29:26,500 --> 00:29:27,600 Where are we? Where are we headed? 471 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:31,000 And kind of what sparks role here, because it seems like 472 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:33,100 there's a lot of research needed. 473 00:29:33,100 --> 00:29:35,800 You've sufficiently alarmed us in a good way. 474 00:29:36,900 --> 00:29:40,700 There's a high risk here. Doesn't seem like a whole Lots 475 00:29:40,700 --> 00:29:42,500 being done. What sparks role of unlikely. 476 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:44,500 Where are you going with spark? And what's your kind of 477 00:29:44,500 --> 00:29:49,400 immediate term Mission there? So, fortunately, there is more 478 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:51,700 and more being done on methane across the ecosystem. 479 00:29:51,700 --> 00:29:55,700 And so I want to make sure that, you know, that that is is clear. 480 00:29:55,700 --> 00:29:58,400 There are many players here who are doing really important work 481 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:03,200 on all different sides of this equation, right from Innovation, 482 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:07,700 new solutions, to policy change to communication, Etc. 483 00:30:07,700 --> 00:30:12,000 And so that's been really heartening to see scale up a lot 484 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,900 more and In the last few years, building on really important 485 00:30:14,900 --> 00:30:16,900 work, that was started a few decades ago. 486 00:30:17,300 --> 00:30:21,000 So we're specifically focused on a few of these sectors to start 487 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,400 and when we hope to add more over time as we have bandwidth 488 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:29,900 to do so. Where we see, you know, many 489 00:30:29,900 --> 00:30:35,300 more have additional efforts needed to be added and in a role 490 00:30:35,300 --> 00:30:39,500 that we can sort of play with a particular focused right now on 491 00:30:39,700 --> 00:30:45,900 major Innovation areas. And so, our long-term goal is to 492 00:30:46,700 --> 00:30:52,000 help accelerate the pathway to being able to repair the climate 493 00:30:52,700 --> 00:30:58,000 by developing support. Courting the development of new 494 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:03,400 Solutions and solution, ecosystems to provide more 495 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:07,100 options for deployment down the road, particularly around where 496 00:31:07,100 --> 00:31:08,600 we have these two types of risks. 497 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:13,200 So, we've been really focused recently on helping to build 498 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:18,800 this field of atmospheric methane removal, which is really 499 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,300 look at this question of, are there ways of accelerating 500 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,500 methane sinks from the atmosphere? 501 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,300 Which could play an important role in addressing historical 502 00:31:28,300 --> 00:31:33,400 methane emissions as well as these other risks of rising 503 00:31:33,700 --> 00:31:37,800 natural emissions and just in general given where we're at any 504 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:42,400 new tools that we can have that will bring down read the first 505 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:46,600 things over time and and help to manage temperatures will be 506 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:50,500 incredibly valuable. It's a very early field and so, 507 00:31:50,500 --> 00:31:54,900 we're really focused right now on helping to support. 508 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:59,400 Scale up or research around a number of ideas that scientists 509 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,100 have had that. Haven't yet been fully explored 510 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:04,300 to see what might be possible here. 511 00:32:04,300 --> 00:32:08,100 What we want to add to the portfolio while also starting to 512 00:32:08,100 --> 00:32:14,500 look at how do we ensure that as those Solutions potentially get 513 00:32:14,500 --> 00:32:20,800 proven out scientifically that we're able to pave a way towards 514 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:26,300 good governance and sort of supportive and appropriate 515 00:32:26,300 --> 00:32:30,600 policy to ensure that these Solutions are as additive as 516 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:34,100 possible. We're also starting to scale up 517 00:32:34,100 --> 00:32:39,400 our work and tareq methane. So about a year ago, we started 518 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,900 doing some Road mapping and the need for solution development 519 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,800 and research funding came up. And so we've been doing some 520 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:50,600 work there, but we're finally building a much larger team 521 00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:54,600 around this and have more dedicated time on it. 522 00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:57,100 And so, we're working on building right now what that 523 00:32:57,100 --> 00:33:00,900 strategy is and where to focus the different state of a field. 524 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,300 A lot more is already happening Then which is really exciting to 525 00:33:03,300 --> 00:33:05,800 see. And we're also convinced that a 526 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,300 lot more needs to happen. And any role that we can play 527 00:33:08,300 --> 00:33:11,800 and helping to identify what those remaining gaps are in 528 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:15,900 field development and helping to fill them be that through 529 00:33:15,900 --> 00:33:19,600 additional film topic funding or spinning up new projects. 530 00:33:19,900 --> 00:33:23,700 We think will be really additive to ensuring that all of our 531 00:33:23,708 --> 00:33:26,100 bases are covered in these fields to give them their best 532 00:33:26,100 --> 00:33:31,000 shot at fulfilling the need. We kind of need them to fill in 533 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,500 order to mitigate our overall climate risk. 534 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,800 What is the state of methane removal right now? 535 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:43,700 Are their direct air capture prototypes being built right now 536 00:33:43,700 --> 00:33:48,000 that actually capture methane from ambient air is, it is 537 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,900 something that parallels carbon removal or is it very different 538 00:33:50,900 --> 00:33:53,300 from some familiar with carbon removal? 539 00:33:53,700 --> 00:33:55,800 Such that they would even recognize it today. 540 00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,500 There's a number of different approaches that are being 541 00:34:00,500 --> 00:34:03,300 discussed. Different levels of research. 542 00:34:03,300 --> 00:34:05,300 Have gone into different to them. 543 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:10,100 And they really widely vary. And so some of them actually may 544 00:34:10,199 --> 00:34:13,400 be some of the same Solutions as carbon dioxide removal. 545 00:34:13,699 --> 00:34:16,500 And some of them are going to look very, very different. 546 00:34:17,100 --> 00:34:22,400 But overall, just given how much you haven't when focus on this 547 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:26,199 field started on the research side, we're in a very, very 548 00:34:26,199 --> 00:34:29,800 early days and so we don't yet know what that portfolio of 549 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,800 solutions will be and which ones are going to pan out. 550 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:35,600 The ones that may end up overlapping heavily. 551 00:34:35,699 --> 00:34:40,500 With carbon dioxide removal. Are some of the soil based 552 00:34:40,500 --> 00:34:44,100 approaches. So, one of our current methane 553 00:34:44,100 --> 00:34:49,699 sinks our soils, relatively small saying about 5% dish of 554 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:54,100 methane that enters into the atmosphere is Sox down by potato 555 00:34:54,100 --> 00:34:59,600 chips and soil but some of the changes that we might look at 556 00:34:59,700 --> 00:35:02,500 for carbon sequestration like biochar enhanced Rock. 557 00:35:02,500 --> 00:35:07,900 Weathering may also impact the Soil bacteria that are 558 00:35:08,700 --> 00:35:14,000 generating or consuming methane. And so, one really important 559 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:17,500 thing that we should all be aware of whenever you make any 560 00:35:17,500 --> 00:35:22,700 of these changes is that you these systems are all complex 561 00:35:22,700 --> 00:35:25,900 and can change, lots of different things, including 562 00:35:25,900 --> 00:35:29,200 different greenhouse gases this, and fortunately, sometimes these 563 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:32,800 things come as co-benefits but no matter what approach were 564 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,800 sending me to sort of make sure we understand a whole Suite. the 565 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:39,700 oven packs to make sure we're not, you know, producing 566 00:35:39,900 --> 00:35:43,900 methane, well, drawing down CO2 or vice versa and that looking 567 00:35:43,900 --> 00:35:47,300 for those opportunities where we can draw down both outer seems 568 00:35:47,300 --> 00:35:51,400 like there may be some Look. Yeah, I got it. 569 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:55,000 No, no. I'm just I'm thinking, you know, 570 00:35:56,300 --> 00:36:00,300 is it is it worth talking about removal or disruption if we're 571 00:36:00,300 --> 00:36:02,600 going to call it that or conversion when we're talking 572 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,600 and I feel like I'm becoming My Own Worst Enemy because I always 573 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:07,600 hate it. When people say, should we even 574 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:09,700 talk about carbon removal, shouldn't we just spoke 575 00:36:10,100 --> 00:36:11,900 decarbonization? And I'm going to do that to you, 576 00:36:11,900 --> 00:36:15,200 and I apologize but because it's such a short. 577 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:20,600 Lived gasps, is it really just about avoiding As opposed to 578 00:36:21,100 --> 00:36:22,300 removing. Oh man. 579 00:36:22,300 --> 00:36:24,200 I love it. You really have really set 580 00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:25,700 yourself up perfectly good. Everybody. 581 00:36:25,700 --> 00:36:29,800 My own villain here. This is, this is no. 582 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,600 It's, this is a great question, and it's a common question. 583 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:41,800 And, you know, the yes, if you emit methane, it will Decay over 584 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:50,100 the course of a few decades. And and yet despite that we are 585 00:36:50,100 --> 00:36:54,200 already seeing half a degree and rising of temperature increase 586 00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:58,500 from methane. And unfortunately, we are not on 587 00:36:58,500 --> 00:37:02,000 a yet on a trajectory to have that go down or atmospheric 588 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,400 methane, the holes are still accelerating. 589 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:10,000 And so, I think the most basic answers, that question is, if we 590 00:37:10,008 --> 00:37:12,800 care about the current warming that we see, and if we care 591 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:17,100 about the warming that we see until was mad, Oracle day when 592 00:37:17,100 --> 00:37:20,600 all of elevated, natural emissions and anthropogenic 593 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:24,500 Emissions, go away. Then we should absolutely care 594 00:37:24,500 --> 00:37:28,000 about any tools that we may be able to add, to the portfolio 595 00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:32,400 that help to draw down or break down that half a degree and 596 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:36,600 growing of warming. As quickly as we can, which 597 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:38,300 atmospheric Ali. We are depending on the 598 00:37:38,300 --> 00:37:41,900 atmospheric levels going down in order to achieve any of our 599 00:37:41,900 --> 00:37:44,600 targets. And so, I think this could 600 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:52,500 partially comes back to, you know, How much emphasis we put 601 00:37:52,500 --> 00:37:54,100 on your term versus long term warming? 602 00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:59,100 And what those trajectories actually mean, the unfortunate 603 00:37:59,100 --> 00:38:04,500 reality is given where we're at our trajectory really, really 604 00:38:04,500 --> 00:38:07,600 does matter. And every tool that we could be 605 00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:11,700 deploying here, that can be additive and play an important 606 00:38:11,700 --> 00:38:16,200 role and bringing down overshoot and our overall Peak 607 00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:22,400 temperatures, which have numerous impacts On Nationals 608 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:26,300 and feedbacks and tipping points, where it's not only our 609 00:38:26,300 --> 00:38:31,800 long-term trajectories here, that matter and given sort of 610 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:37,100 predation of natural systems and if we don't do everything, we 611 00:38:37,100 --> 00:38:40,300 can to keep temperatures down. We're also an increasing risk 612 00:38:40,300 --> 00:38:44,900 over time of iron higher natural system machine would normally on 613 00:38:44,900 --> 00:38:47,300 methane but also on carbon dioxide from these systems. 614 00:38:47,300 --> 00:38:50,500 And so we're setting ourselves up to be sort of hiking. 615 00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:54,400 You taller and taller Mountain here on, how much carbon dioxide 616 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:56,800 removal? How much math in removal could 617 00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,400 be needed down the road? And so every ounce of 618 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:03,300 preventative action is is valuable and ownership a 619 00:39:03,308 --> 00:39:07,700 trajectory My favorite question of this show, I feel like you've 620 00:39:07,700 --> 00:39:10,300 been crying over that around in your soul for however, long you 621 00:39:10,300 --> 00:39:13,800 been involved in. Speedy are Siobhan and now you 622 00:39:13,808 --> 00:39:15,800 got to Spring the trap on someone else. 623 00:39:16,100 --> 00:39:19,000 And there you go. That was a really, but that was 624 00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:22,000 a really good answer. I like the to framed in terms of 625 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:24,500 like, if we care about this stuff, I'm going to start saying 626 00:39:24,500 --> 00:39:27,100 that more often. It's like, why don't we do? 627 00:39:27,100 --> 00:39:30,100 We care about 1.5 degrees. We care about 2 degrees. 628 00:39:30,100 --> 00:39:32,900 If so, we have to care about carbon removal and it sounds 629 00:39:32,900 --> 00:39:35,400 like methane removal and It all solutions, right? 630 00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:41,100 It definitely feels like you and Spark in general has a very yes 631 00:39:41,100 --> 00:39:44,500 and approach. And I think that's true of a lot 632 00:39:44,508 --> 00:39:47,400 of climate Solutions, right? I mean, we just, we all have to 633 00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:50,100 go in with like this. Yes and approach. 634 00:39:50,100 --> 00:39:52,900 And so, I think, obviously bringing that to methane is 635 00:39:52,900 --> 00:39:56,100 really important and the potency is really getting me because I 636 00:39:56,100 --> 00:39:59,400 had read all these statistics around 80, you know, 80 times. 637 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:03,300 But when you when you point out that, you know, fresh out of the 638 00:40:03,300 --> 00:40:06,100 source we're talking about, 120 times. 639 00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,300 It really makes me rethink. So, for our listeners, who don't 640 00:40:09,300 --> 00:40:13,700 know, Erika, kindly called us out on our memes Channel and was 641 00:40:13,700 --> 00:40:18,100 like, you're not doing any methane memes and ask and you 642 00:40:18,100 --> 00:40:20,600 shall receive, we responded with a methane Meme. 643 00:40:21,300 --> 00:40:24,600 And now I'm thinking, it wasn't, it wasn't potent enough, like I 644 00:40:24,607 --> 00:40:25,900 didn't do a good enough job bills. 645 00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:39,400 It wasn't exactly right. That's just that's really 646 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,600 potency of just Pow. Wow, we really need to we really 647 00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:43,800 need to get methane under control. 648 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,700 We sure do. We're all depending on that and 649 00:40:47,700 --> 00:40:51,200 many other things going, right? So as long as we can all 650 00:40:51,700 --> 00:40:55,200 continue on, you know, each of these important things in 651 00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:58,600 parallel. We've got a shot that man is are 652 00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:01,000 there a lot of a lot of challenges that we all need to 653 00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:05,400 be figuring out how to tackle right now, what about the third 654 00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:07,200 greenhouse, gases, nitrous oxide? 655 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,800 What's the status of that are people thinking about, removing 656 00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,200 that? I've heard, I've heard mumblings 657 00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:15,400 about it but I feel like it's the people who are Really 658 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:19,200 bleeding edge and trying to find something that is kind of blue 659 00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:23,900 sky and any other business turns of phrases that may apply here 660 00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:29,500 what's going on with that, you know, not as much as method 661 00:41:29,500 --> 00:41:32,100 removal which is definitely not as much as carbon dioxide 662 00:41:32,100 --> 00:41:37,000 removal and of in the, you know, in the order of size of impact 663 00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:40,000 on the atmosphere. So so also follows focus on 664 00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:44,600 removal, you know, we haven't, we don't, we haven't had a large 665 00:41:44,700 --> 00:41:51,100 focus on nitrous oxide removal. There's a lot of work to do on 666 00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:56,200 nitrous oxide reduction or sure my dentist's office is right. 667 00:41:58,300 --> 00:42:09,600 No, largely agriculture, agriculture category, but 668 00:42:09,900 --> 00:42:13,700 probably correct me on that our overall warming impact from 669 00:42:13,700 --> 00:42:16,300 nitrous oxide. Side is important. 670 00:42:16,300 --> 00:42:20,700 And also unfortunately growing, and yet also much smaller than 671 00:42:20,700 --> 00:42:22,300 either carbon dioxide or methane. 672 00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:27,200 And so, if you think about any approaches that are going to 673 00:42:27,207 --> 00:42:32,100 require air movement and the energy costs of that, then 674 00:42:32,100 --> 00:42:37,000 you'll be getting much less climate impact from just nitrous 675 00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:41,700 oxide than you would from just methane or just carbon dioxide. 676 00:42:42,100 --> 00:42:46,300 There may be ways of combining some of these systems. 677 00:42:46,300 --> 00:42:51,600 Perhaps, if you are able to actually have a process that 678 00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:58,300 would capture or convert that nitrous oxide, sort of low 679 00:42:58,300 --> 00:43:04,000 overall, climate Sprites, like low energy cost I have yet to 680 00:43:04,008 --> 00:43:09,600 see any proposals for how that might be done in a way that 681 00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:16,000 would be so cos plausible and A beneficial, there may be natural 682 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,300 systems approaches. This hasn't been an area that I 683 00:43:19,300 --> 00:43:25,200 have dug a bunch into given, just how much work we see to do 684 00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:31,300 on methane removal right now and the much higher overall impact 685 00:43:31,300 --> 00:43:33,800 that methane currently has an atmosphere composed of nitrous 686 00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:38,600 oxide. Erica. 687 00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:41,800 What do you think for our listeners who want to get 688 00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:47,100 involved, or who want to make policy, or advocate for policy, 689 00:43:47,100 --> 00:43:50,300 or want to start research? What's the most impactful area 690 00:43:50,300 --> 00:43:53,300 right now and methane? Is it just getting the facts 691 00:43:53,300 --> 00:43:54,900 down on paper? Is it still in the research 692 00:43:54,900 --> 00:43:57,600 phase or what something people can interact with? 693 00:43:58,500 --> 00:44:01,900 So on methane overall, we need to be all hands on deck and 694 00:44:01,900 --> 00:44:03,800 figuring out how we cut methane emissions. 695 00:44:04,300 --> 00:44:07,500 And there are lots of different places to plug in there. 696 00:44:07,500 --> 00:44:11,900 There are there there are many existing solutions for some of 697 00:44:11,900 --> 00:44:14,300 those sectors that we need to figure out how to deploy them 698 00:44:14,300 --> 00:44:17,500 faster. And depending on the sector 699 00:44:17,500 --> 00:44:21,800 that, you know, might take business model, Innovation 700 00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:25,500 Finance, Innovation, technical innovation. 701 00:44:27,900 --> 00:44:31,300 Awareness, building for different behavioral changes, 702 00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:33,800 Etc. So, tons of places to get 703 00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:38,300 involved in methane, mitigation or methane emissions avoidance. 704 00:44:39,700 --> 00:44:45,700 And, you know, within methane, that is absolutely our sort of 705 00:44:45,700 --> 00:44:50,100 the first front of the methane. Fight is cutting emissions. 706 00:44:50,500 --> 00:44:54,000 We talked the removal space given the current state. 707 00:44:54,100 --> 00:44:57,900 It really is right now focused on sort of really fundamental. 708 00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:03,300 Research to understand what these methods are and Advance 709 00:45:03,300 --> 00:45:06,200 the science around them. And so at this stage, I think 710 00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:11,000 there are there are fewer places to get as directly involved 711 00:45:11,500 --> 00:45:17,000 outside of more of the sort of act, you know, Academia policy 712 00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:22,900 type angles and that work right now is incredibly important and 713 00:45:22,900 --> 00:45:25,500 still very and it's really small days. 714 00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:29,700 There's a there's a our variety of activities on that methane. 715 00:45:29,700 --> 00:45:32,600 Emissions side, putting methane emissions, reduction side, hang 716 00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:35,500 on people's backgrounds, which may offer more different ways of 717 00:45:35,500 --> 00:45:40,800 plugging in I have one final question as we near the 718 00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:44,300 conclusion, which is Erica. Can meet thing. 719 00:45:44,300 --> 00:45:49,100 Be stored in aluminium I've never heard that. 720 00:45:49,900 --> 00:45:52,900 Just like the way the British people say, both of those words 721 00:45:53,900 --> 00:45:59,600 you think amazing I miss I miss the leaf and just copy 722 00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:05,300 aluminium. We're in the bad part of the 723 00:46:05,300 --> 00:46:10,900 show. It always goes one joke further 724 00:46:10,900 --> 00:46:12,700 than it really needs to. Then you're like, cool. 725 00:46:12,700 --> 00:46:16,900 We're going to cut five minutes ago and wrap it there, but we're 726 00:46:16,900 --> 00:46:18,100 gonna be will follow. Work. 727 00:46:18,100 --> 00:46:19,800 I'm going to try and save it. Now, we're gonna move all your 728 00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:20,500 work. Erica. 729 00:46:20,500 --> 00:46:22,800 They want to stay involved with parking you personally. 730 00:46:23,700 --> 00:46:27,800 Yes, you can find me on Twitter and you can find spark on 731 00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:30,800 Twitter as well. You can learn more about spark 732 00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:33,300 and and these fields on our website that's part climate 733 00:46:33,300 --> 00:46:35,600 dot-org. Think our Twitter handle is at 734 00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:40,200 spark climate super original and we have a newsletter which we 735 00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:42,800 occasionally some things out too, but there's a lot of 736 00:46:42,808 --> 00:46:45,800 information on our website right now, particularly on really 737 00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:48,900 understanding what the different Approaches are that are being 738 00:46:48,900 --> 00:46:52,300 researched for atmospheric methane removal. 739 00:46:52,300 --> 00:46:57,600 If anyone wants to jump deep down the nerd whole of what 740 00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:00,300 these approaches are, what some of the trade-offs might be. 741 00:47:00,300 --> 00:47:04,800 And what the Innovation areas are that we required to help see 742 00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:07,900 them through to fruition. We have a lot more coming on 743 00:47:07,900 --> 00:47:11,600 that front as well, which we will update our newsletter about 744 00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:16,800 as well as our our Twitter really looking at High party 745 00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:20,000 research are Areas and research questions that need to be 746 00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:23,300 answered and some road maps for the field. 747 00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:26,900 And so those are additional places for folks to engage 748 00:47:26,900 --> 00:47:29,600 particularly, who are on. The, you know, the science and 749 00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:32,100 R&D side. I will be helping to highlight 750 00:47:32,100 --> 00:47:37,300 where we see some of the highest leverage needs to help sort of 751 00:47:37,300 --> 00:47:40,300 further illuminate where people can get involved in different 752 00:47:40,300 --> 00:47:43,300 ways. One other question that came up 753 00:47:43,300 --> 00:47:46,100 to I felt I had to catch myself. So used to saying carbon removal 754 00:47:46,100 --> 00:47:47,600 I'm talking to a methane specialist. 755 00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:50,500 Should I be saying carbon dioxide removal if you think we 756 00:47:50,500 --> 00:47:52,200 should be pedantic? And really insist that we're 757 00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:55,500 talking about a specific gas or is it just carbon removal when 758 00:47:55,500 --> 00:47:58,600 it's inclusive of all of them. Is that the taxonomy here? 759 00:48:00,900 --> 00:48:03,500 I'm, I don't think she pretend expert in corner of one carbon 760 00:48:03,500 --> 00:48:05,000 dioxide removal. I think carbon removal. 761 00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:07,600 This point is largely understood be carbon dioxide removal. 762 00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:12,000 Usually, when we talk about greenhouse gas, It's wide or 763 00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:15,500 agnostic removal. We say greenhouse gas removal or 764 00:48:15,500 --> 00:48:19,700 negative emissions Technologies, to avoid that confusion. 765 00:48:19,700 --> 00:48:22,500 And so yeah, to do the umbrella term. 766 00:48:22,500 --> 00:48:26,300 You can use either of those and then not, then have to, you 767 00:48:26,300 --> 00:48:29,100 know, remind ourselves that yes, indeed, methane does have carbon 768 00:48:29,100 --> 00:48:31,900 in it which it sure does. Yeah. 769 00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:33,300 Go on. Don't be that person. 770 00:48:33,900 --> 00:48:36,200 Well, thanks both for coming and hanging out. 771 00:48:36,500 --> 00:48:38,200 It was fun. Got some laughs in there. 772 00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:40,700 Even snuck one by Erica there at the end. 773 00:48:41,100 --> 00:48:44,100 So confusing. I'm gonna make it. 774 00:48:44,700 --> 00:48:47,500 I'm gonna make the cut. It's gonna be too hard to edit 775 00:48:47,500 --> 00:48:48,800 out. Now there's too many allusions 776 00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:50,500 to it. Stay, it's in there. 777 00:48:50,500 --> 00:48:57,300 Now I'm no longer thank you so much for listening. 778 00:48:57,300 --> 00:48:59,400 If you could please subscribe and give us a great rating and 779 00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:02,600 review on Apple podcast or a rating on Spotify that be much 780 00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:04,800 appreciated. It helps us get our content out 781 00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:06,500 to more people. You can sign up for our 782 00:49:06,500 --> 00:49:09,300 newsletter at nor e.com. Follow us on social media. 783 00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:10,600 We will catch you next time.