You're listening to the reversing climate change,
podcast by the team at Nori. The carbon removal Marketplace.
This is a show about the innovators and entrepreneurs
developing solutions to climate change.
Hi everyone. This is Alexandra.
Guerra from Nori, co-founder and director of corporate
development for this bonus episode, we've invited Nicole.
Systrom founder of Sutro Energy Group and the coal has written a
number. Article about the three ways
CEOs can tackle climate change and build a net zero economy.
So we thought we'd have a fun little conversation record it
and share it with you guys. So that maybe you can inform
Your Business Leaders on how we can achieve Net Zero economies
through, changing our business practices.
Hi Nicole, thanks for being here.
Are you doing speak to be here? Yeah, we're great.
So you wrote this thing, this three ways that you guys can
tackle climate change. It's on the world.
Economic Forum will include a link into the show notes, but
why? Can you tell us what are those
three ways that we can tackle climate change?
Sure. So, I guess I'd start by saying,
I mean, I know your whole company is based around this
like climate is a problem. There's a role for a really
everyone to play and I think it's been really heartening to
see the corporate world start to really step up at least in a
words over the past 12 months, I'd say.
And now you know, the science is pointing us towards Kids, this
is really the decade where we have to cut fifty percent of
emissions in order to stay on track to hit our 2050 goals and
and the corporate world really needs to start turning those
words into action. So that was really the
motivation for writing this piece.
And so the three outlined three ways that CEOs can really work
on this. And the first one is supporting
early-stage entrepreneurs in climate and climate technology
and helping. The scales Solutions.
The second is lending climate innovators political Capital so
helping early-stage companies really play in the political
Arena where, you know, large corporations have a lot more
infrastructure and experience and then finally making that 0,
a part of your business strategy.
So happy to dig into any of those that that are interesting.
Well, I thought it was really interesting that you had laid
out one and two, so it's not just supporting early stage
startups, financially, It's also about supporting them
politically. I think that Rings?
Really true for us because we see particularly within the
space of carbon removal, that's one one part of the climate
change space that it's very nascent and there's a lot that's
constantly changing and shifting.
So now there's the Biden Administration and they're
talking about a carbon bank. And, you know, we've been here
three years trying to create a voluntary market, place for
carbonyl with farmers and so like everything is constantly
changing and we always want to be involved in those
conversations but But that seems like something almost when I
read that limited to businesses that are a little bit larger.
So maybe a corporations that have some political pool or
Capital as opposed to smaller organizations where maybe they
can't even help out in that way. Yeah, well, so I guess what I'm
getting at here is from a climate Tech Innovation
perspective, like many of these companies are there, small,
right? And a lot of them are still
working out of fear. I mean there's a lot of work to
do just to get the technology developed or the business
Innovation, you know like the financial Innovation whatever.
The the innovation of the company is it's like it's still
these climate technology companies are still early in
their life cycle and there's just a lot of hustle just so
like do the work of the company itself but it's still important
to remember that these all of these startups are happening
within a political content within a policy context, within
a political context. I think, you know, maybe 10
years ago, 10, 15 years ago, on the kind of first round of what
we call the Green Tech, then there was a lot of emphasis on
the startup as a related to policy changes and like, how
policy would affect the startup and a lot of business plans, a
lot of companies got funded based on, you know, a carbon tax
getting passed, like a future carbon tax, being passed and
then those things didn't happen. And I think investors and you
know, entrepreneurs really got burned in their connection to
policy, but I'm hopeful that we're sort of like the the
circle is kind of coming back around right because we can't
make The changes. We need to make as a global
Society of the global economy without changing our laws and
changing our policies. And I think a lot of startups
are realizing. Once again, your work with
carbon removal is probably the best example is like how
important policy is in order to get these companies, these early
stage Climate Technologies, kind of kick-started and the way that
we need them to be at the same time.
You know, most of the entrepreneurs of the early
stages that I've met are they don't get into this because they
know about policy, they get into it because they are passionate
about climate in general, or they're passionate about
whatever technology. They have their technologists
often at the very beginning and they don't, frankly have time to
go figure out like, who to talk to in Washington, d.c. let
alone, any one of the state government's if we're if we're
speaking from a you know us perspective which I know this
analogy extends to other countries around the world and a
lot of larger companies do they do have their large enough to If
you know, sort of whole regulatory, departments and, and
policy people on stand, and they Lobby all the time.
Even they, they Lobby. They're very happy to Lobby on
things that aren't necessarily directly in line with their
business, you know, their business model, but it just
seems to me like, there's an opportunity here.
I mean, at a minimum, what we need is the corporate world to
stop lobbying against climate action, because there's a lot of
that going on. Definitely, you know, companies
and in the way and say, you know, oh, we can't do anything
on climate because that will hurt us in some way, which it
provides a lot of cover for policymakers to then not take
the Bold action. We need to take.
So, I think at a minimum, we need to ask this kind of large,
corporate lobbyists to stop lobbying against climate action.
But then, furthermore, I think figuring out a way to, to lift
up climate, technologists, and help them engage in the policy
arena, in an effective way. I think can really help move the
policy environment forward in a way that actually helps climate
climate Tech get something done, right.
Because the other thing that I think can happen is those policy
makers that are working on Innovation policy, which is, I
think a lot of what were you and I are talking about at this
moment. Like if innovators aren't part
of that conversation, there's no guarantee that that policy gets
made in a way that actually helps the innovator.
That's exactly what I was going to say.
It's really interesting because We're all playing a very
essential role and we're all part of a crew really on this
one deck. So policymakers and Educators
large established companies and corporations and we have to be
communicating with each other and the unique role that early
innovators or startups in the climate Tech, can space.
Or any space can play is that they can innovate and test
because we have lower risk, we have lower Capital, we don't
really have like a set A functioning a highly operating
high-volume business model we can test and iterate and build
new Solutions. That's something that
policymakers can't do. And so yeah, it needs to be an
open dialogue where learnings can be shared between the two
and what the innovators learn or share, can be implemented or at
least considered in the policy that it's that's being made.
I think that's my one concern is when policies.
Do prescriptive. So I grant you you would take
forever to innovate and fix the mistake of the assumption that
you made in the policy that you wrote.
If so, yeah, well I read like it's so rare.
I mean, maybe good policy. That's why we have professional
policy makers like, you know, but because it is a hard thing
to do. But, you know, it's like, I
think about the 45 Q tax credit, right?
Which is somebody people point to is like this is the, this is
the policy, we have to support carbon removal.
But like if you're not A huge company like if you don't have a
huge project that's removing massive amounts of carbon you
can take advantage of it which stifles this whole carbon
removal you know nascent industry we have so much
Innovation going on. It's questions like that where
like if innovators were at the table and I could say you know
we have to lower this limit or how can we make this work so
that it's more available to everyone.
Then I think you know we lift all the boats at once versus
just like Chevron being the only company that's able to like take
advantage of it, which I don't think is desirable for us to get
where we're going. Yeah.
Absolutely. Look.
If I want to shift a little bit to the your point number three,
which is make Net Zero part of a your business strategy.
Yeah. Every business is different in
its shape size, customers Market, what they're doing.
Can you tell us a little bit of some of the examples that you
have seen to work to make Net Zero part of You run your
business? Yeah, yeah, I think well maybe
another way to State this make Net Zero.
Part of your business strategy is my belief that like if you
are a company you are a climate company.
Like everyone needs to be asking, you know, if you are
operating and doing business right now, you need to be asking
ourselves. The question of like, how does a
change in climate affect what we do, and what can we do to be
resilient to a changing climate and hopefully help mitigate
against that climate. So I think, maybe One of the
most public examples of this is Microsoft, right?
Like they do software, it's not like company that you're like oh
there's a, you know, I guess their software, you know,
running software consumes electricity and like they should
be concerned about, you know, Energy Efficiency and that way,
like fine. But, you know, I think Microsoft
for actually for many decades now has been experimenting with
different ways to bring climate into its work.
And innovate against it. I mean, they for a while they
have an internal carbon tax but they sort of imposed on every
business decision which I think is pretty wild.
And Innovative. And now, you know, now they have
a whole, they have a climate fund, they have a, you know,
they just have a lot of people working on how climate should
come into their decisions but also into their customers
decisions, right? And I think it's all from the
perspective of, you know, we have a better more sustainable
world than there's a better economy that helps Microsoft
grow its earnings, right? So I, you know, I think every
company can be Asking itself, what climate risk do?
I have. And what opportunity do I have
to to affect that and our benefit from some adopting, some
kind of climate Innovation. I think just the very basic
questions of, like, where are you cited?
How would a disaster affect your operations?
Like what can you do to, to be resilient to that?
Where do your people live? Are they safe starting from
that? Basic perspective, makes a lot
of sense to me and I also think You know, there's the kind of
normal list of like, try to switch to renewable energy and
do you know, become more efficient in your operation,
which people should definitely do.
But I, you know, I think it's more, what the climate question
really invites you to do is have take a broader long-term view on
where your business is headed and and the impact it's having
Beyond. May be just what you, you know,
sell every day. I see the valley, what you're
saying, right? Like, okay, one of the
cofounders of a climate change startup so I'm not I'm going to
disagree with with what you're stating here.
I'm going to push back a little where it's like, I don't know
that every company or business should see themselves as a
climate business. I think they should.
It's kind of like it's interesting cuz we're seeing a
shift, right? So before it was, how do I make?
If I'm going to make a business, you know, it's to make money
because that's the point or to have fulfilling work.
Etc, I think we're seeing a shift now, especially in the
Millennials where it's not just about the money.
Or the salary. It's through actual, like I
belong. Do I feel like there's purpose
in my work? What is the impact excetera?
And we're seeing a shift in that way, which is good.
So we could see a shift for more businesses make Net Zero part of
their business strategy, but there are still.
So I've been living in Peru for about six months and there's a
lot of Industry, of course from there.
Because you have businesses who are taking Commodities and
selling them to other foreign-owned organizations that
then might sell them in the US or Europe or something.
Right. And I wonder, you know, for
those types where you have just communities that are just trying
to survive like and we have a lot of that.
Also in the US as well, like we have businesses that are just
like, you know, they're trying to maintain their Community.
How do we speak to them in a way where it's like look, it's not a
either or like how do we tie in climate when it just?
So it's so separate from What the business owner owners are
even thinking or the community is concerned about?
Yeah, no I mean it's good that. I like the question it's a good
push back. I guess what I would argue is
that I'm encouraging people to at least ask the question, right
to at least have it on their radar.
That this is a thing, I think, if you're a Fortune 500 company,
like you should be having a lot of activity on this hands down.
No, questions asked, right? I think what you're pointing to
are these sort of smaller and Oddities and maybe in emerging
economies where people are still kind of scrambling right to just
to kind of make the business successful.
Which I for that group of people it may be enough to just have
the conversation in your mind to start having the conversation
and I haven't also tie it back to political power because I
think one of the main reasons that policies on climate don't
get past, is because of a storyline about how it's going
to ruin an economy. How Switching to Renewables will
be more expensive or regenerative, agricultural.
Practices would be more expensive and less people will
have jobs and therefore, and, you know, that it's not.
And then there's also the whole Trope of the problem with the
developed world turning to the developing world, right?
And saying to emerging economies, like, don't develop
those fossil fuel resources, you've got You're trying to like
lift your country out of raised raised, the standard of living
in your country and put, please leave all those resources in the
ground that you have like, that's yes, totally agree.
That's completely problematic. But what I, what I would argue
again is people need to be asking the question and engaging
in ways that they can, and where is that make sense to them?
I mean, it's not going to make sense for everyone to go all the
way and like yeah, if you're a small business, like you don't
need to hire a person to come up with a Climate strategy for what
you're doing but I think there is some having the conversation
asking the question, the more that we have this in our mind
that, you know, in order for us to make the changes, we need to
make, this is like a top-to-bottom, reorganization of
our economy. We have to decarbonize every
last little corner of everything, and that route that
is going to touch every business.
Eventually maybe not tomorrow, but it will.
Now I think you're absolutely right.
And it's good response, which is all right.
Just ask the question and maybe and I love that response.
Mainly because it allows room for it to be non confrontational
or to not be something that is threatening, right?
It's always strange when you ask these types of questions,
because it might seem like We'll have to be one or the other.
I have to like either give it all or or give Nan.
And I don't think that the world is so black and white and we
should at least give room for the idea and the exploration of
what would happen if I were to consider this thing because I do
care about it or I do believe it's important in some way and
you are totally free not to take action on that.
But at least it's a gave some space in the more space.
We allow for these types of conversations on how do we
include climate Emmett in the decisions that we make everyday
business or otherwise we will continue to as a society
progress. But then there's always a
question of time and urgency so well.
So I think one of the hard the other sort of aspects of this
conversation is like the focus on an individual company and
like choices at that company level versus trying to change
the whole system. Right?
And and I maybe that's part of what you're pointing to here is
like a smaller company. It works within a system, right?
Like it can't completely change how power is delivered you know
or whether the trucks a company uses our gas powered or you know
electric right. But I definitely want to make
the argument here that corporations, it corporations,
just changed their mind, you know, about how to do something
and we're all in on climate like this problem would be fixed.
Like, that's not what I'm talking about.
I think it's fine. Linking.
It's a political power as well because that is event.
That is actually how a system gets changed is you have to have
policy but these two kind of things have to happen in tandem,
right? Like we need movement in the
corporate sector, in whatever way makes sense for the company
that, you know, you're a part of and running and some companies
are larger larger Footprints of more power.
They should be doing more versus a smaller company that you know
is much more at the whim of the system around.
It. But the more movement we
generate within the corporate sector.
I think the easier it becomes repulses to move on, the kind of
timeline that we're talking about, we need to have a move
on. Yeah, again it goes.
I think it goes back to the fact that there are key roles that we
all play. In this effort, the private
sector so corporations businesses, small medium size as
well, innovators and entrepreneurs and startups and
then policy makers themselves and the people who support them.
So Ours, as well as consumers. We're all part of this.
And so having this having the space of the Forum to ask those
questions and have those conversations is the key here
and then and making those connections making space for
them. So that again goes to your
point. Number two, we I didn't even go
into Point number one to me, I kind of just skipped over it
because it's kind of like yeah I give give money to start up so
let's just do a quick little. Let's just give some space to
your point number 1 which is Fighting early-stage startups.
My point here is that, you know, especially if you're an
established company You're typically not set up to have
major game-changing Innovation. You're a large company with a
lot of business lines and that business is to protect.
And so the Innovation that you will do with in you are most
likely to do within that within your corporate culture already
is more incremental, right? Like like a better widget you
know a better dishwasher next time around a little more,
efficient lawnmower that kind of thing.
Versus, you know, what the study shows is that They're Sky
Innovation, at least nowadays, really tends to come from with
outside of large established businesses.
And so, what I'm calling for here is the kinds of innovations
that we will need for those kinds of innovations that we
still need to address the climate crisis.
I'm encouraging those corporations with balance,
sheets, or with philanthropy, to think about how to invest in and
lift up, and support and partnered with these early stage
companies in ways that help. Help, you know, move their
products, forward move their development and help them scale.
So that their products become the, you know, the climate tech
companies that will probably become more widely available and
therefore, we can have the impact that we hope they'll all
have. And then and then the other you
know the other point is the Innovation pieces is
forward-looking right but there are also solutions that already
exist and encourage companies to get to think about how to help
deploy those that are ready to go already.
Because again, we're talking about decarbonizing every single
corner of our economy. Every single Corner industry
like that is it's a big task so yeah.
So take some coordination. Yeah, great.
Well, I really appreciate you sharing some of your insights
will include a link to the article that Nicole wrote.
Thank you so much for your time here, Nicole.
Oh, it was my pleasure. So fun to chat.
Take care, you two. Thank you so much for listening.
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