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You're listening to the 
reversing climate change, 

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podcast by the team at Nori. 
The carbon removal Marketplace. 

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This is a show about the 
innovators and entrepreneurs 

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developing solutions to climate 
change. 

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Hi everyone. 
This is Alexandra. 

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Guerra from Nori, co-founder and
director of corporate 

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development for this bonus 
episode, we've invited Nicole. 

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Systrom founder of Sutro Energy 
Group and the coal has written a

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number. 
Article about the three ways 

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CEOs can tackle climate change 
and build a net zero economy. 

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So we thought we'd have a fun 
little conversation record it 

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and share it with you guys. 
So that maybe you can inform 

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Your Business Leaders on how we 
can achieve Net Zero economies 

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through, changing our business 
practices. 

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Hi Nicole, thanks for being 
here. 

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Are you doing speak to be here? 
Yeah, we're great. 

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So you wrote this thing, this 
three ways that you guys can 

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tackle climate change. 
It's on the world. 

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Economic Forum will include a 
link into the show notes, but 

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why? 
Can you tell us what are those 

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three ways that we can tackle 
climate change? 

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Sure. 
So, I guess I'd start by saying,

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I mean, I know your whole 
company is based around this 

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like climate is a problem. 
There's a role for a really 

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everyone to play and I think 
it's been really heartening to 

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see the corporate world start to
really step up at least in a 

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words over the past 12 months, 
I'd say. 

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And now you know, the science is
pointing us towards Kids, this 

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is really the decade where we 
have to cut fifty percent of 

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emissions in order to stay on 
track to hit our 2050 goals and 

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and the corporate world really 
needs to start turning those 

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words into action. 
So that was really the 

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motivation for writing this 
piece. 

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And so the three outlined three 
ways that CEOs can really work 

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on this. 
And the first one is supporting 

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early-stage entrepreneurs in 
climate and climate technology 

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and helping. 
The scales Solutions. 

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The second is lending climate 
innovators political Capital so 

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helping early-stage companies 
really play in the political 

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Arena where, you know, large 
corporations have a lot more 

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infrastructure and experience 
and then finally making that 0, 

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a part of your business 
strategy. 

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So happy to dig into any of 
those that that are interesting.

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Well, I thought it was really 
interesting that you had laid 

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out one and two, so it's not 
just supporting early stage 

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startups, financially, It's also
about supporting them 

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politically. 
I think that Rings? 

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Really true for us because we 
see particularly within the 

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space of carbon removal, that's 
one one part of the climate 

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change space that it's very 
nascent and there's a lot that's

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constantly changing and 
shifting. 

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So now there's the Biden 
Administration and they're 

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talking about a carbon bank. 
And, you know, we've been here 

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three years trying to create a 
voluntary market, place for 

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carbonyl with farmers and so 
like everything is constantly 

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changing and we always want to 
be involved in those 

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conversations but But that seems
like something almost when I 

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read that limited to businesses 
that are a little bit larger. 

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So maybe a corporations that 
have some political pool or 

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Capital as opposed to smaller 
organizations where maybe they 

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can't even help out in that way.
Yeah, well, so I guess what I'm 

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getting at here is from a 
climate Tech Innovation 

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perspective, like many of these 
companies are there, small, 

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right? 
And a lot of them are still 

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working out of fear. 
I mean there's a lot of work to 

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do just to get the technology 
developed or the business 

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Innovation, you know like the 
financial Innovation whatever. 

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The the innovation of the 
company is it's like it's still 

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these climate technology 
companies are still early in 

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their life cycle and there's 
just a lot of hustle just so 

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like do the work of the company 
itself but it's still important 

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to remember that these all of 
these startups are happening 

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within a political content 
within a policy context, within 

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a political context. 
I think, you know, maybe 10 

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years ago, 10, 15 years ago, on 
the kind of first round of what 

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we call the Green Tech, then 
there was a lot of emphasis on 

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the startup as a related to 
policy changes and like, how 

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policy would affect the startup 
and a lot of business plans, a 

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lot of companies got funded 
based on, you know, a carbon tax

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getting passed, like a future 
carbon tax, being passed and 

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then those things didn't happen.
And I think investors and you 

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know, entrepreneurs really got 
burned in their connection to 

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policy, but I'm hopeful that 
we're sort of like the the 

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circle is kind of coming back 
around right because we can't 

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make The changes. 
We need to make as a global 

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Society of the global economy 
without changing our laws and 

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changing our policies. 
And I think a lot of startups 

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are realizing. 
Once again, your work with 

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carbon removal is probably the 
best example is like how 

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important policy is in order to 
get these companies, these early

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stage Climate Technologies, kind
of kick-started and the way that

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we need them to be at the same 
time. 

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You know, most of the 
entrepreneurs of the early 

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stages that I've met are they 
don't get into this because they

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know about policy, they get into
it because they are passionate 

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about climate in general, or 
they're passionate about 

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whatever technology. 
They have their technologists 

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often at the very beginning and 
they don't, frankly have time to

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go figure out like, who to talk 
to in Washington, d.c. let 

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alone, any one of the state 
government's if we're if we're 

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speaking from a you know us 
perspective which I know this 

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analogy extends to other 
countries around the world and a

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lot of larger companies do they 
do have their large enough to If

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you know, sort of whole 
regulatory, departments and, and

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policy people on stand, and they
Lobby all the time. 

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Even they, they Lobby. 
They're very happy to Lobby on 

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things that aren't necessarily 
directly in line with their 

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business, you know, their 
business model, but it just 

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seems to me like, there's an 
opportunity here. 

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I mean, at a minimum, what we 
need is the corporate world to 

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stop lobbying against climate 
action, because there's a lot of

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that going on. 
Definitely, you know, companies 

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and in the way and say, you 
know, oh, we can't do anything 

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on climate because that will 
hurt us in some way, which it 

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provides a lot of cover for 
policymakers to then not take 

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the Bold action. 
We need to take. 

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So, I think at a minimum, we 
need to ask this kind of large, 

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corporate lobbyists to stop 
lobbying against climate action.

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But then, furthermore, I think 
figuring out a way to, to lift 

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up climate, technologists, and 
help them engage in the policy 

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arena, in an effective way. 
I think can really help move the

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policy environment forward in a 
way that actually helps climate 

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climate Tech get something done,
right. 

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Because the other thing that I 
think can happen is those policy

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makers that are working on 
Innovation policy, which is, I 

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think a lot of what were you and
I are talking about at this 

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moment. 
Like if innovators aren't part 

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of that conversation, there's no
guarantee that that policy gets 

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made in a way that actually 
helps the innovator. 

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That's exactly what I was going 
to say. 

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It's really interesting because 
We're all playing a very 

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essential role and we're all 
part of a crew really on this 

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one deck. 
So policymakers and Educators 

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large established companies and 
corporations and we have to be 

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communicating with each other 
and the unique role that early 

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innovators or startups in the 
climate Tech, can space. 

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Or any space can play is that 
they can innovate and test 

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because we have lower risk, we 
have lower Capital, we don't 

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really have like a set A 
functioning a highly operating 

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high-volume business model we 
can test and iterate and build 

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new Solutions. 
That's something that 

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policymakers can't do. 
And so yeah, it needs to be an 

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open dialogue where learnings 
can be shared between the two 

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and what the innovators learn or
share, can be implemented or at 

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least considered in the policy 
that it's that's being made. 

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I think that's my one concern is
when policies. 

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Do prescriptive. 
So I grant you you would take 

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forever to innovate and fix the 
mistake of the assumption that 

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you made in the policy that you 
wrote. 

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If so, yeah, well I read like 
it's so rare. 

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I mean, maybe good policy. 
That's why we have professional 

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policy makers like, you know, 
but because it is a hard thing 

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to do. 
But, you know, it's like, I 

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think about the 45 Q tax credit,
right? 

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Which is somebody people point 
to is like this is the, this is 

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the policy, we have to support 
carbon removal. 

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But like if you're not A huge 
company like if you don't have a

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huge project that's removing 
massive amounts of carbon you 

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can take advantage of it which 
stifles this whole carbon 

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removal you know nascent 
industry we have so much 

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Innovation going on. 
It's questions like that where 

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like if innovators were at the 
table and I could say you know 

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we have to lower this limit or 
how can we make this work so 

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that it's more available to 
everyone. 

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Then I think you know we lift 
all the boats at once versus 

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just like Chevron being the only
company that's able to like take

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advantage of it, which I don't 
think is desirable for us to get

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where we're going. 
Yeah. 

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Absolutely. 
Look. 

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If I want to shift a little bit 
to the your point number three, 

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which is make Net Zero part of a
your business strategy. 

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Yeah. 
Every business is different in 

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its shape size, customers 
Market, what they're doing. 

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Can you tell us a little bit of 
some of the examples that you 

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have seen to work to make Net 
Zero part of You run your 

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business? 
Yeah, yeah, I think well maybe 

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another way to State this make 
Net Zero. 

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Part of your business strategy 
is my belief that like if you 

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are a company you are a climate 
company. 

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Like everyone needs to be 
asking, you know, if you are 

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operating and doing business 
right now, you need to be asking

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ourselves. 
The question of like, how does a

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change in climate affect what we
do, and what can we do to be 

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resilient to a changing climate 
and hopefully help mitigate 

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against that climate. 
So I think, maybe One of the 

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most public examples of this is 
Microsoft, right? 

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Like they do software, it's not 
like company that you're like oh

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there's a, you know, I guess 
their software, you know, 

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running software consumes 
electricity and like they should

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be concerned about, you know, 
Energy Efficiency and that way, 

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like fine. 
But, you know, I think Microsoft

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for actually for many decades 
now has been experimenting with 

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different ways to bring climate 
into its work. 

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And innovate against it. 
I mean, they for a while they 

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have an internal carbon tax but 
they sort of imposed on every 

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business decision which I think 
is pretty wild. 

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And Innovative. 
And now, you know, now they have

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a whole, they have a climate 
fund, they have a, you know, 

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they just have a lot of people 
working on how climate should 

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come into their decisions but 
also into their customers 

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decisions, right? 
And I think it's all from the 

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perspective of, you know, we 
have a better more sustainable 

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world than there's a better 
economy that helps Microsoft 

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grow its earnings, right? 
So I, you know, I think every 

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company can be Asking itself, 
what climate risk do? 

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I have. 
And what opportunity do I have 

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to to affect that and our 
benefit from some adopting, some

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kind of climate Innovation. 
I think just the very basic 

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questions of, like, where are 
you cited? 

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How would a disaster affect your
operations? 

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Like what can you do to, to be 
resilient to that? 

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Where do your people live? 
Are they safe starting from 

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that? 
Basic perspective, makes a lot 

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of sense to me and I also think 
You know, there's the kind of 

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normal list of like, try to 
switch to renewable energy and 

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do you know, become more 
efficient in your operation, 

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which people should definitely 
do. 

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But I, you know, I think it's 
more, what the climate question 

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really invites you to do is have
take a broader long-term view on

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where your business is headed 
and and the impact it's having 

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Beyond. 
May be just what you, you know, 

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sell every day. 
I see the valley, what you're 

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saying, right? 
Like, okay, one of the 

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cofounders of a climate change 
startup so I'm not I'm going to 

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disagree with with what you're 
stating here. 

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I'm going to push back a little 
where it's like, I don't know 

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that every company or business 
should see themselves as a 

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climate business. 
I think they should. 

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It's kind of like it's 
interesting cuz we're seeing a 

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shift, right? 
So before it was, how do I make?

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If I'm going to make a business,
you know, it's to make money 

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because that's the point or to 
have fulfilling work. 

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Etc, I think we're seeing a 
shift now, especially in the 

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Millennials where it's not just 
about the money. 

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Or the salary. 
It's through actual, like I 

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belong. 
Do I feel like there's purpose 

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in my work? 
What is the impact excetera? 

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And we're seeing a shift in that
way, which is good. 

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So we could see a shift for more
businesses make Net Zero part of

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their business strategy, but 
there are still. 

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So I've been living in Peru for 
about six months and there's a 

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lot of Industry, of course from 
there. 

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Because you have businesses who 
are taking Commodities and 

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selling them to other 
foreign-owned organizations that

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then might sell them in the US 
or Europe or something. 

246
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Right. 
And I wonder, you know, for 

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those types where you have just 
communities that are just trying

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to survive like and we have a 
lot of that. 

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Also in the US as well, like we 
have businesses that are just 

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like, you know, they're trying 
to maintain their Community. 

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How do we speak to them in a way
where it's like look, it's not a

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either or like how do we tie in 
climate when it just? 

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So it's so separate from What 
the business owner owners are 

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even thinking or the community 
is concerned about? 

255
00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:57,600
Yeah, no I mean it's good that. 
I like the question it's a good 

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push back. 
I guess what I would argue is 

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that I'm encouraging people to 
at least ask the question, right

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to at least have it on their 
radar. 

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That this is a thing, I think, 
if you're a Fortune 500 company,

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like you should be having a lot 
of activity on this hands down. 

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No, questions asked, right? 
I think what you're pointing to 

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are these sort of smaller and 
Oddities and maybe in emerging 

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economies where people are still
kind of scrambling right to just

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to kind of make the business 
successful. 

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Which I for that group of people
it may be enough to just have 

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the conversation in your mind to
start having the conversation 

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and I haven't also tie it back 
to political power because I 

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think one of the main reasons 
that policies on climate don't 

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get past, is because of a 
storyline about how it's going 

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to ruin an economy. 
How Switching to Renewables will

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be more expensive or 
regenerative, agricultural. 

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Practices would be more 
expensive and less people will 

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have jobs and therefore, and, 
you know, that it's not. 

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00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,900
And then there's also the whole 
Trope of the problem with the 

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developed world turning to the 
developing world, right? 

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00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:10,700
And saying to emerging 
economies, like, don't develop 

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those fossil fuel resources, 
you've got You're trying to like

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lift your country out of raised 
raised, the standard of living 

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in your country and put, please 
leave all those resources in the

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ground that you have like, 
that's yes, totally agree. 

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00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:28,200
That's completely problematic. 
But what I, what I would argue 

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00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:32,400
again is people need to be 
asking the question and engaging

283
00:15:32,700 --> 00:15:35,300
in ways that they can, and where
is that make sense to them? 

284
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I mean, it's not going to make 
sense for everyone to go all the

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way and like yeah, if you're a 
small business, like you don't 

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00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:45,400
need to hire a person to come up
with a Climate strategy for what

287
00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:48,900
you're doing but I think there 
is some having the conversation 

288
00:15:49,100 --> 00:15:54,000
asking the question, the more 
that we have this in our mind 

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00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:57,100
that, you know, in order for us 
to make the changes, we need to 

290
00:15:57,100 --> 00:16:00,400
make, this is like a 
top-to-bottom, reorganization of

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00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,400
our economy. 
We have to decarbonize every 

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00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:05,700
last little corner of 
everything, and that route that 

293
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is going to touch every 
business. 

294
00:16:07,300 --> 00:16:10,000
Eventually maybe not tomorrow, 
but it will. 

295
00:16:10,500 --> 00:16:11,800
Now I think you're absolutely 
right. 

296
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And it's good response, which is
all right. 

297
00:16:14,300 --> 00:16:19,400
Just ask the question and maybe 
and I love that response. 

298
00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:23,600
Mainly because it allows room 
for it to be non confrontational

299
00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:27,300
or to not be something that is 
threatening, right? 

300
00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:29,600
It's always strange when you ask
these types of questions, 

301
00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:33,300
because it might seem like We'll
have to be one or the other. 

302
00:16:33,300 --> 00:16:36,600
I have to like either give it 
all or or give Nan. 

303
00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:39,700
And I don't think that the world
is so black and white and we 

304
00:16:39,700 --> 00:16:43,700
should at least give room for 
the idea and the exploration of 

305
00:16:43,900 --> 00:16:47,400
what would happen if I were to 
consider this thing because I do

306
00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:51,300
care about it or I do believe 
it's important in some way and 

307
00:16:51,300 --> 00:16:54,100
you are totally free not to take
action on that. 

308
00:16:54,500 --> 00:16:57,800
But at least it's a gave some 
space in the more space. 

309
00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:01,400
We allow for these types of 
conversations on how do we 

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00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:03,700
include climate Emmett in the 
decisions that we make everyday 

311
00:17:03,700 --> 00:17:08,400
business or otherwise we will 
continue to as a society 

312
00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:10,099
progress. 
But then there's always a 

313
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question of time and urgency so 
well. 

314
00:17:13,599 --> 00:17:16,700
So I think one of the hard the 
other sort of aspects of this 

315
00:17:16,700 --> 00:17:20,800
conversation is like the focus 
on an individual company and 

316
00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:23,599
like choices at that company 
level versus trying to change 

317
00:17:23,599 --> 00:17:25,000
the whole system. 
Right? 

318
00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:28,700
And and I maybe that's part of 
what you're pointing to here is 

319
00:17:28,700 --> 00:17:33,100
like a smaller company. 
It works within a system, right?

320
00:17:33,100 --> 00:17:39,600
Like it can't completely change 
how power is delivered you know 

321
00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:46,600
or whether the trucks a company 
uses our gas powered or you know

322
00:17:46,700 --> 00:17:49,400
electric right. 
But I definitely want to make 

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00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:53,000
the argument here that 
corporations, it corporations, 

324
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:56,300
just changed their mind, you 
know, about how to do something 

325
00:17:56,500 --> 00:17:59,100
and we're all in on climate like
this problem would be fixed. 

326
00:17:59,100 --> 00:18:00,600
Like, that's not what I'm 
talking about. 

327
00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:01,800
I think it's fine. 
Linking. 

328
00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:05,300
It's a political power as well 
because that is event. 

329
00:18:05,300 --> 00:18:08,200
That is actually how a system 
gets changed is you have to have

330
00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:11,800
policy but these two kind of 
things have to happen in tandem,

331
00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:13,100
right? 
Like we need movement in the 

332
00:18:13,100 --> 00:18:17,400
corporate sector, in whatever 
way makes sense for the company 

333
00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:20,200
that, you know, you're a part of
and running and some companies 

334
00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:22,800
are larger larger Footprints of 
more power. 

335
00:18:23,300 --> 00:18:27,400
They should be doing more versus
a smaller company that you know 

336
00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:31,200
is much more at the whim of the 
system around. 

337
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:33,300
It. 
But the more movement we 

338
00:18:33,300 --> 00:18:35,100
generate within the corporate 
sector. 

339
00:18:35,100 --> 00:18:38,100
I think the easier it becomes 
repulses to move on, the kind of

340
00:18:38,100 --> 00:18:40,500
timeline that we're talking 
about, we need to have a move 

341
00:18:40,500 --> 00:18:42,800
on. 
Yeah, again it goes. 

342
00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:47,500
I think it goes back to the fact
that there are key roles that we

343
00:18:47,500 --> 00:18:50,200
all play. 
In this effort, the private 

344
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:53,900
sector so corporations 
businesses, small medium size as

345
00:18:53,900 --> 00:18:58,200
well, innovators and 
entrepreneurs and startups and 

346
00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,000
then policy makers themselves 
and the people who support them.

347
00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:05,500
So Ours, as well as consumers. 
We're all part of this. 

348
00:19:05,500 --> 00:19:08,800
And so having this having the 
space of the Forum to ask those 

349
00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:11,700
questions and have those 
conversations is the key here 

350
00:19:11,900 --> 00:19:15,200
and then and making those 
connections making space for 

351
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:16,700
them. 
So that again goes to your 

352
00:19:16,700 --> 00:19:18,900
point. 
Number two, we I didn't even go 

353
00:19:18,900 --> 00:19:21,400
into Point number one to me, I 
kind of just skipped over it 

354
00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:26,500
because it's kind of like yeah I
give give money to start up so 

355
00:19:26,500 --> 00:19:29,800
let's just do a quick little. 
Let's just give some space to 

356
00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:33,300
your point number 1 which is 
Fighting early-stage startups. 

357
00:19:33,900 --> 00:19:36,700
My point here is that, you know,
especially if you're an 

358
00:19:36,700 --> 00:19:41,700
established company You're 
typically not set up to have 

359
00:19:41,700 --> 00:19:45,800
major game-changing Innovation. 
You're a large company with a 

360
00:19:45,808 --> 00:19:48,900
lot of business lines and that 
business is to protect. 

361
00:19:48,900 --> 00:19:52,100
And so the Innovation that you 
will do with in you are most 

362
00:19:52,100 --> 00:19:55,300
likely to do within that within 
your corporate culture already 

363
00:19:55,300 --> 00:19:59,500
is more incremental, right? 
Like like a better widget you 

364
00:19:59,500 --> 00:20:01,700
know a better dishwasher next 
time around a little more, 

365
00:20:01,700 --> 00:20:03,700
efficient lawnmower that kind of
thing. 

366
00:20:04,300 --> 00:20:09,200
Versus, you know, what the study
shows is that They're Sky 

367
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,600
Innovation, at least nowadays, 
really tends to come from with 

368
00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,500
outside of large established 
businesses. 

369
00:20:15,500 --> 00:20:19,200
And so, what I'm calling for 
here is the kinds of innovations

370
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:22,100
that we will need for those 
kinds of innovations that we 

371
00:20:22,100 --> 00:20:24,800
still need to address the 
climate crisis. 

372
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,800
I'm encouraging those 
corporations with balance, 

373
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:34,100
sheets, or with philanthropy, to
think about how to invest in and

374
00:20:34,100 --> 00:20:36,500
lift up, and support and 
partnered with these early stage

375
00:20:36,500 --> 00:20:40,200
companies in ways that help. 
Help, you know, move their 

376
00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:43,700
products, forward move their 
development and help them scale.

377
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,600
So that their products become 
the, you know, the climate tech 

378
00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:50,400
companies that will probably 
become more widely available and

379
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:52,200
therefore, we can have the 
impact that we hope they'll all 

380
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:55,700
have. 
And then and then the other you 

381
00:20:55,700 --> 00:20:58,800
know the other point is the 
Innovation pieces is 

382
00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:02,200
forward-looking right but there 
are also solutions that already 

383
00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:05,700
exist and encourage companies to
get to think about how to help 

384
00:21:05,700 --> 00:21:07,900
deploy those that are ready to 
go already. 

385
00:21:08,700 --> 00:21:12,200
Because again, we're talking 
about decarbonizing every single

386
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:16,400
corner of our economy. 
Every single Corner industry 

387
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:20,800
like that is it's a big task so 
yeah. 

388
00:21:21,300 --> 00:21:25,300
So take some coordination. 
Yeah, great. 

389
00:21:25,300 --> 00:21:29,000
Well, I really appreciate you 
sharing some of your insights 

390
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:32,500
will include a link to the 
article that Nicole wrote. 

391
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,100
Thank you so much for your time 
here, Nicole. 

392
00:21:35,700 --> 00:21:38,500
Oh, it was my pleasure. 
So fun to chat. 

393
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:47,000
Take care, you two. 
Thank you so much for listening.

394
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,300
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00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,500
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