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You're listening to the 
reversing climate change, 

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podcast by the team at Nori. 
The carbon removal Marketplace. 

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This is a show about the 
innovators and entrepreneurs 

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developing solutions to climate 
change. 

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Hello and welcome to the 
reversing climate change 

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podcast. 
I'm Ross, Kenyon, I'm the 

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creative editor at Nori's carbon
removal Marketplace, we have a 

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bonus episode, we saw some 
exciting news come out of new 

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light Technologies. 
It's been so long. 

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NG since we have caught up 
before we get into that radical 

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Moog of car. 
Radical, thanks for co-hosting 

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with me. 
Thanks for having me, Ross. 

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I'm excited. 
Yeah, Radha is nor he's head of 

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methodology and also host of our
other podcasts carbon removal 

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Newsroom which comes out weekly 
on Fridays. 

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It's a Roundup of all the latest
carbon removal news. 

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If you haven't listened you 
should open up your app And 

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subscribe to it and get some 
radical in your life. 

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Is that the correct frame for 
that radical? 

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I've been sober for us but we'll
go with it. 

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Mark era my co-founder and CEO 
of new light Technologies. 

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Thank you so much for coming 
back. 

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It's a pleasure to be here. 
Great to see you guys. 

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I was just looking back to when 
we first did this show because 

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you were on I think it's episode
14 of season 1 and it came out 

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on March 6 of 2018. 
So more than three years 

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Christoph was there Paul was 
referred to as producer. 

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Paul. 
That used to be how we would run

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around and do the show back. 
Then you should go back and 

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listen to if you'd like to see 
the change over time, but a lot 

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has happened. 
Since then, both for us, we 

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sound like babies on the show 
and so young, and so naive. 

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And now, we're all grizzled 
veterans, and a lot has happened

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for you to Mark. 
I keep seeing your stuff pop up,

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there's cool new products. 
I don't know. 

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I just seemed like a natural 
time to check in. 

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So, how's it been going good? 
Yeah, it's crazy. 

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It kind of feels like yesterday 
when we did that podcast but No,

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I've got a few more grey hairs 
since then, so it's been a bit 

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but yeah, man, it's really good.
You know, we were kind of in 

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semi quiet mode for a while 
there. 

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And then in September of last 
year, September 2020, we 

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announced the commissioning of 
our commercial scale plant that 

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we call Eagle 3. 
It's at the facility that you 

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guys toward, but, I hadn't yet 
been built. 

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And from that facility, we've 
started a launch products into 

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Market. 
Using are carbon. 

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Been great. 
It's been, it's been a lot of 

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fun. 
Obviously, a lot of challenges, 

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but sort of the beginning of a 
new chapter for us. 

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So despite how turbulent 
obviously, the past year has 

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been for everybody. 
It's also been a year of 

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tremendous growth for us. 
So we're excited. 

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So Mark, I listen to that 
episode. 

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And Ross is so, right? 
So naive, sounding and like 

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babies, but we've come a long 
way. 

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But I was wondering, you, you 
just mentioned your new 

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facility, but one thing, you 
talked a lot about where your 

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licensing, your desired to 
license and it is that still 

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kind of the direction your 
company's thinking about going, 

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or you're more focused on now 
manufacturing think change, add 

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it on. 
Well, our focus is ultimately 

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the impact. 
And you know, when we started 

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this now almost 18 years ago, 
our goal is to create a market 

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driven consumer-driven solution 
to reducing Now, carbon in the 

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air and to do that by basically 
mimicking, a technology that 

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happens everyday in the ocean. 
And so it took us about 10 years

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to figure that out. 
Once we had a platform there, 

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the running question has been 
and continues to be how can we 

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expand the utilization of this 
as widely in as fast as we can? 

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So one of the ways to do that is
potentially through licensing, 

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but there are a lot of ways to 
do it right now. 

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Our focus is on going as fast as
we can. 

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And then supporting everything 
that comes from that. 

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So how that translates is, we're
focused on building plants and 

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building them putting as much 
Steel in the ground as we can. 

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And then to the extent that we 
are able to develop Partnerships

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and relationships that enable 
licensing, we certainly want to 

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support and do that. 
What we don't want to do though 

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is we don't want to kind of, 
wait around, and sort of way for

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people to take whatever steps 
time is of the essence. 

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And so we're going to be 
building as many facilities as 

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we can. 
And then sir, Any licensing on 

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the way the show that we did 
back then also focused quite a 

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lot on things that I would not 
describe strictly. 

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As consumer-facing things like, 
packaging is talk of Dell and 

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Ikea in that episode. 
But now you have to Consumer 

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brands for apparel and food 
where that seems very new and 

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exciting. 
That's when did that happen. 

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So, are carbon has a whole bunch
of cool features and because 

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it's meltable can Used to 
replace plastic and the blessing

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and the curse of that is that it
can just do so many things. 

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We spent the first 10 years 
Lillian, not really in, as, in 

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kind of, but totally in stealth 
mode no website, no public 

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interaction. 
We're just focusing on the tech 

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but we came out of that we talk 
to people about what we're 

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doing. 
We just got a lot of requests 

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for the material. 
So all these great Brands 

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reaching out and of course we 
was like, yeah it will do that. 

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And that and that. 
So we were immediately pulled 

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and tons of Rations were doing a
lot of different projects and 

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there's a lot of good in that in
the sense that we were able to 

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show that this material could be
used really on a platform basis 

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to replace a lot of different 
things. 

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The downside of that though is, 
you know, every company only has

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so many people and so many hours
of the day. 

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So at some point we had to take 
a step back because the demand 

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in this space is just it's just 
vast volumes, are just so big. 

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We had to take a step back and 
say, all right, where can we 

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provide the most impact today 
And so we said, all right, the 

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two features where are carbon 
really shines is number one. 

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It's a naturally occurring 
material, and because it's 

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naturally occurring material. 
If it ends up in the 

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environment, the environment 
understands that it'll degrade 

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it. 
So as an example, where able to 

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make things like straws that our
ocean degradable that's that's 

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distinctive indifferent and 
holds a lot of value. 

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And the other one is the fact 
that it's carbon - so with those

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two kind of value points in 
mind, we said all right which 

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Industries are the best fit for 
today. 

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It and we looked at the ocean 
Plastics pollution problem and 

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it turns out that the majority 
of product types that end up in 

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the ocean are related to food 
service. 

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So think of everything from 
straws and Cutlery to, you know,

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bottles and so forth, but it's 
things that touch food. 

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And so we said, yeah, that's, 
that's a place where we can have

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a massive impact. 
And so, we decided to go down 

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that path. 
And today, we're producing 

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straws Cutlery, and we're going 
to be Hung out a whole bunch of 

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different products as well that 
they're made with this naturally

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occurring material and thus have
a totally different end of life 

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story compared to synthetic 
Plastics that that never go 

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away. 
The other place was carbon 

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negativity will come back to 
this because I think we've been 

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surprised by how much interest 
we've gotten on the food. 

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We're side relative to that but 
we said you know where can that 

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have a big impact. 
So if you're putting your 

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material in the back of a 
refrigerator part or something 

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that people just aren't 
interacting with, we didn't 

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think that I have as much of an 
impact. 

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So we like the idea of taking a 
specific industry and saying 

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let's help decarbonise this. 
But put it into people's hands 

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so they can actually see. 
So this, this is my, my wallet. 

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I know we're on radio issue as 
it were so you can't see it. 

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But I'm holding an air carbon 
wallet and it's kind of cool. 

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You can hold in your hands. 
Something that has a net 

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negative carbon footprint and 
with that comes a blockchain 

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number. 
So you can plug that that number

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into our website and it'll pull 
up all the steps In the 

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production process that led to 
that from gas all the way 

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through the powder and then into
the air carbon leather stitched.

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And finally, culminating with 
the LCA third-party LCA that 

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gives the specific carbon impact
number on a third-party basis. 

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So that we were hoping that that
would kind of really bring it 

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together for someone using this 
product and serving, not just to

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try to help decarbonise places 
that use leather but also serve 

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as a as a maybe Hopefully, you 
know, not to get ahead of 

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ourselves but maybe as an 
Inspiration Point, say look, I'm

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holding this in my hand. 
That means that, you know, 

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there's a whole lot, maybe more 
possible than we initially first

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thought. 
So we were inspired by those two

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Pathways and that's why we went 
down those paths mysterious. 

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What's like how often can you 
reuse your plastic? 

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Where is it like washable or is 
it immediately biodegradable 

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kind of what's the life cycle on
those things? 

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First thing that you should know
is? 

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Whenever anybody refers to our 
stuff is plastic, sorry 

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apologize for that. 
Your are carbon Cutlery. 

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I think, you know so I guess the
only reason we do bring it up is

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because part of our mission is 
to try to, you know, prevent the

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flow of plastic in the 
environment we think are carbon 

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is a great tool to do that. 
But it has a really interesting 

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property just so happens that in
its natural form. 

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And this is against made in 
every ecosystem on Earth. 

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It's hydrolytically. 
Abel so water doesn't break it 

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down. 
And what that means is you can 

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use it in your dishwasher, you 
know, in your home. 

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You'd never notice anything. 
It is enzymatically degradable 

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though. 
So what that means is, if it's 

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in your kitchen, nothing's 
happening, if you take that same

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straw or cover it with dirt and 
feed it water, and you grow a 

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Chia Pet on it, then it's going 
to start to break down. 

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So that's that's sort of a lucky
thing that we had nature. 

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Just made it that way. 
It also happens to have a 

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Aperture profile where you can 
put it through the dishwasher so

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you can reuse these things over 
and over. 

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That's important to us, of 
course, from a carbon 

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perspective, but even end of 
life, you know, just because 

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something's degradable doesn't 
mean we want it to end up in the

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environment so it happens to. 
And again, we got kind of Lucky,

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it just happens that this 
profile that allows us to do all

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those things. 
We should probably catch our 

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listeners up in case they 
haven't heard this show. 

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How does this process work? 
What exactly are these products 

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made out of? 
Yeah, the air. 

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Already production process 
starts with a microorganism 

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derived from the ocean. 
So if you come visit our 

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facility, the main reactor that 
carries out, this process is Big

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stainless steel tank. 
It's roughly 50 feet tall. 

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And what we do is, we fill it 
with salt water and into that 

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salt water. 
We add a microorganism that's 

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from the oceans naturally 
occurring. 

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It's non-GMO and it eats 
greenhouse gases its food 

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source. 
And so we feed it are in 

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greenhouse gas and as we're 
doing so it's growing and 

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multiplying but it's also 
filling its cell with this 

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molecule. 
That the technical name is PHP 

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and PHP is as fascinating 
molecule. 

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It's made in almost all known, 
living things, the human body 

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makes it. 
So as it says it's growing, it's

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playing in cell with PHP and 
then what we do is we put that 

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through a multi-step 
high-pressure filtration 

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process. 
So we separate microorganism 

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from the PHP polymer, that's 
what we call your carbon. 

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We turn that it into a fine 
white powder and then into a 

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pellet. 
And then in pellet form, we can 

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melt that into anything from 
straws to Cutlery, to leather 

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sheet or whatever it is. 
So we're basically mimicking a 

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process that's happening in 
nature all day every day. 

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Just doing it on land. 
When we last spoke, your feed 

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stocks were from landfills, if 
memory serves me. 

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Well, here is that still how 
you're getting your methane and 

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and CO2 and other greenhouse gas
feedstocks So over the years 

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we've run with a number of 
feedstocks horses so we've run 

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00:12:04,100 --> 00:12:07,500
with biogas from a dairy farm 
biogas from a food waste 

226
00:12:07,500 --> 00:12:10,700
digester. 
We've done with landfill gas, 

227
00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:14,000
abandoned Coal, Mine gas that we
take on a wheeled basis through 

228
00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:16,400
the grid. 
We're seeing a number of ways to

229
00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:21,100
access the methane side. 
On the CO2 side, our primary 

230
00:12:21,100 --> 00:12:25,100
source was we teamed up with the
gas company who is capturing CO2

231
00:12:25,100 --> 00:12:27,800
coming off of an ethanol plant. 
And then they were delivering 

232
00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:31,900
that to our Our facility. 
So we've got a pretty wide range

233
00:12:31,900 --> 00:12:34,300
of sources that we have in can 
use. 

234
00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:38,100
We do prefer methane right now 
because it's got that, you know,

235
00:12:38,100 --> 00:12:41,100
meaningfully higher impact. 
Well, it's of the CO2 at least, 

236
00:12:41,100 --> 00:12:44,100
23 x. 
So that's really our Focus today

237
00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:47,500
and then as we grow, you know, 
will expand into more emphasis, 

238
00:12:47,500 --> 00:12:51,800
on the CO2 side. 
That you know, brings up a nice 

239
00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:56,100
little segue into what Ross. 
And I do on a daily basis is the

240
00:12:56,100 --> 00:12:59,100
carbon market. 
So how have you been thinking 

241
00:12:59,100 --> 00:13:02,800
about the carbon markets lately?
It's obviously become a much 

242
00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:07,100
hotter and much more broadly, 
discussed Topic in the last few 

243
00:13:07,100 --> 00:13:09,700
years. 
You know, it's interesting. 

244
00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:14,800
When we started new light, we 
had this ideology that the 

245
00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:17,100
technology that we're developing
in the products that we're 

246
00:13:17,100 --> 00:13:21,600
making, they needed to Be 
attractive, or from a consumer 

247
00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,400
standpoint and you can 
automatically on their own two 

248
00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:26,000
feet. 
In other words without the 

249
00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:29,400
presence of subsidies or credits
or anything like that. 

250
00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:33,000
So it's taken us a while to kind
of come around to the thought 

251
00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:35,700
that, hey, maybe this is 
something that we should look 

252
00:13:35,700 --> 00:13:38,900
at. 
I think, initially our path was 

253
00:13:38,900 --> 00:13:41,500
really more based off of 
consumer communication. 

254
00:13:41,900 --> 00:13:45,800
When you hold a product in your 
hand on its face, it's hard to 

255
00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:48,100
know, you know, what is its 
carbon impact. 

256
00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:52,100
So the thing that we did was we 
teamed up with IBM about 3 years

257
00:13:52,100 --> 00:13:54,300
ago, actually? 
Right around the time when that 

258
00:13:54,300 --> 00:13:58,400
podcast, so many, so many gray, 
hairs ago and we said, all 

259
00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:01,900
right, we want to have a wave 
for people to have a verifiable,

260
00:14:02,100 --> 00:14:06,000
look into the carbon footprint. 
And that was a, that took a 

261
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:07,800
pretty big effort to get that in
place. 

262
00:14:08,100 --> 00:14:11,100
And we had that today. 
But in parallel, we also wanted 

263
00:14:11,100 --> 00:14:15,400
to have a methodology that 
showed that our process was a 

264
00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:17,300
capable of generating carbon 
credits. 

265
00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:22,000
So we put together. 
Other group and worked with Vera

266
00:14:22,100 --> 00:14:26,700
who used to be VCS and we 
created a methodology that 

267
00:14:26,700 --> 00:14:31,500
effectively covers our process. 
And that was I think also 

268
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:34,800
somewhere between two and three 
maybe two years to get that 

269
00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:36,800
through. 
And now that that's in place, 

270
00:14:36,900 --> 00:14:39,300
you know, we're starting to look
at that and say, well, how do we

271
00:14:39,300 --> 00:14:41,500
want to utilize that? 
And there are, there are 

272
00:14:41,500 --> 00:14:44,700
different potential Pathways. 
One of them is just, you know, 

273
00:14:44,708 --> 00:14:47,500
kind of take the credits that 
come from that there's also a 

274
00:14:47,508 --> 00:14:49,100
potential pathway where you 
could pass. 

275
00:14:49,300 --> 00:14:52,000
Those along. 
And so we're evaluating that 

276
00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:54,200
right now. 
But it's now become something 

277
00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:58,000
that we like there's a 
tangibility to it that we think 

278
00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:01,200
is important. 
And so what you're going to see 

279
00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:03,000
from us is over the next few 
years, were going to be 

280
00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:05,100
increasingly involved in that 
space. 

281
00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:08,300
Do they say it? 
Took you two years to get your 

282
00:15:08,300 --> 00:15:11,800
project, your methodology up and
running in Vera. 

283
00:15:12,500 --> 00:15:14,700
I think it was about that period
of time. 

284
00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,900
There were so many steps and 
then this is not, I mean, this 

285
00:15:18,900 --> 00:15:22,500
is Not a knock on anyone. 
It it's just a very extensive 

286
00:15:22,500 --> 00:15:25,600
thing that you go through 
because I think we had I can't 

287
00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:27,300
remember how many third parties 
were involved. 

288
00:15:27,300 --> 00:15:31,800
But there's there's a lot and 
public comments and all kinds of

289
00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,900
stuff like that. 
You go through and lots of not 

290
00:15:34,900 --> 00:15:38,600
just third-party verifications 
but then even the third party 

291
00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:40,400
checks on the third party 
verification. 

292
00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:44,000
So there's just so many steps to
get to that point. 

293
00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:47,700
It wasn't an overnight process. 
I'd like to hear a bit more 

294
00:15:47,700 --> 00:15:51,100
about this passing on to 
Zoomers, one of the questions 

295
00:15:51,100 --> 00:15:56,200
that we often face is if say a 
company is generating carbon 

296
00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,800
offsets carbon removals. 
If they sell those all the way, 

297
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:03,300
do they lose their status as 
being carbon - as a business? 

298
00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:06,800
How are you thinking about that,
or how should we be believe they

299
00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:08,700
do? 
Yeah, because you can't Google 

300
00:16:08,700 --> 00:16:13,100
account. 
So, that is a consideration that

301
00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:17,100
whoever ultimately owns them 
has, has the footprint, at least

302
00:16:17,100 --> 00:16:19,900
that's my understanding, but but
certainly there, Can't be a 

303
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:25,400
Vestige of double counting. 
Are you able to not monetize 

304
00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:29,200
some of the amounts of credits 
that would say, for instance, a 

305
00:16:29,700 --> 00:16:34,100
wallet generated, I was like to 
this is way more than a while. 

306
00:16:34,100 --> 00:16:37,900
It would be two tons and you 
held one back to say like hey 

307
00:16:37,900 --> 00:16:40,500
this wallet is carbon - someone 
else didn't buy, the carbon 

308
00:16:40,500 --> 00:16:43,500
negativity of your wallet off of
you before you even got it. 

309
00:16:43,500 --> 00:16:47,800
Does that make sense? 
Yeah, I don't know, I haven't 

310
00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:50,900
played that scenario out. 
I mean, all of this stuff is 

311
00:16:50,900 --> 00:16:54,500
increasingly governed by 
International standards, you 

312
00:16:54,500 --> 00:16:58,000
know, ISO standards and whatnot.
So you know it's gotten to the 

313
00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:01,300
point now where the question 
like that I run through the 

314
00:17:01,300 --> 00:17:03,400
system as if it's a legal 
question. 

315
00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:07,900
Is it effectively in some ways? 
Is so my short answer is, I 

316
00:17:07,900 --> 00:17:10,200
don't know. 
It's interesting to me that 

317
00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:12,900
you're talking about 
increasingly this being devoured

318
00:17:12,900 --> 00:17:16,599
by International guidelines and 
ISO standards because in some 

319
00:17:16,599 --> 00:17:19,000
ways, I feel like you'd like 
there's still a lot of work to 

320
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:23,400
be done out there and like a two
year registration process to get

321
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,400
your project. 
Seems like one of the places 

322
00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:29,000
where we could get better. 
But that also makes me think 

323
00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:32,900
about what do you think the 
marketplaces should be evolving 

324
00:17:32,900 --> 00:17:35,700
through or what do you think 
needs to change to make them 

325
00:17:35,700 --> 00:17:39,900
better and more attractive? 
Who entrepreneurs, like 

326
00:17:39,900 --> 00:17:42,300
yourself? 
Well, I think I think you 

327
00:17:42,308 --> 00:17:47,300
touched on a good point which is
that The more we can speed up 

328
00:17:47,900 --> 00:17:53,000
the process and reduce the cost 
of getting new methodologies, we

329
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:56,100
will see more methodologies. 
The key is ensuring that they 

330
00:17:56,100 --> 00:17:59,600
meet quality standards and I, 
you know, the flip side of a 

331
00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:03,100
long time period to get 
something approved is is that 

332
00:18:03,300 --> 00:18:06,600
you know, it generates trust 
having gone through so many 

333
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:09,400
third parties and I think 
that's, that's the reason that 

334
00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,800
that's in place right now. 
But even still, it does become a

335
00:18:12,808 --> 00:18:16,200
barrier to having more. 
Things in place that are having 

336
00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:18,500
an impact that part's not 
positive. 

337
00:18:18,900 --> 00:18:22,000
I think the international 
standards are they appear to be 

338
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:23,900
homogenizing but there's still 
work to do. 

339
00:18:24,300 --> 00:18:29,000
I think, for instance, SES used 
ISO 14000 44, or at least 

340
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:32,600
something in that realm, the 
world is continuing to move 

341
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:36,100
more. 
I least from my perspective to, 

342
00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,200
you know, what should eventually
be a single gold standard that 

343
00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:42,300
everybody uses that way? 
There's really good visibility. 

344
00:18:42,700 --> 00:18:46,100
And then the key is just going 
to be making Sure that there's 

345
00:18:46,100 --> 00:18:49,500
unquestionable quality, that's 
the flip side to the speed 

346
00:18:49,500 --> 00:18:54,300
question, okay. 
Our business is to take 

347
00:18:54,300 --> 00:18:57,700
greenhouse gas and use it as a 
resource and turn it into into 

348
00:18:57,700 --> 00:19:00,800
products. 
So that being the case. 

349
00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:04,500
There's not an element to which,
you know, this is, this is tail,

350
00:19:04,500 --> 00:19:06,500
wagging, the dog. 
This is this is our core 

351
00:19:06,500 --> 00:19:10,000
business. 
So being able to take, you know,

352
00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:15,000
greenhouse gas and turn it into 
a wallet is, is indicative of Of

353
00:19:15,008 --> 00:19:20,600
of, hey, why are we using these 
either animal skin or these 

354
00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:24,000
other chemicals? 
There's a different pathway and 

355
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:27,300
oh, by the way, if you've got 
attractive economically, then 

356
00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:29,800
hey, there's a lot to talk about
here. 

357
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,100
So we're just showing that 
there's there's a whole 

358
00:19:33,300 --> 00:19:36,600
different production pathway and
not only, is it a different 

359
00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:39,900
production pathway, but it's 
sort of this Nexus of we can and

360
00:19:39,900 --> 00:19:44,100
we need to find low carbon or 
carbon negative ways to produce 

361
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:47,800
And so we're rolling out 
different verticals that 

362
00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:51,500
demonstrate that and if you then
multiply those out by the size 

363
00:19:51,500 --> 00:19:56,000
of these markets, I mean, 
imagine decarbonizing food where

364
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,500
decarbonizing big segments of 
the fashion industry. 

365
00:19:59,500 --> 00:20:03,800
Those those are things that we 
want to put in sight and say 

366
00:20:04,100 --> 00:20:07,500
this, this might actually be 
possible and if you can do it 

367
00:20:07,500 --> 00:20:10,000
over there, well why can't you 
do it over there? 

368
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,400
So this stuff sort of where we 
want to be. 

369
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:15,300
Hmm. 
Is this a common approach? 

370
00:20:15,300 --> 00:20:18,000
You're seeing with other 
companies that are using 

371
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:22,100
captured carbon in some way, or 
is because there are some that 

372
00:20:22,100 --> 00:20:24,600
are consumer facing, but I think
a lot of it is probably stuff 

373
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:26,600
that the average person doesn't 
even know exist. 

374
00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,300
Maybe takes for granted, what's 
your read of this sector 

375
00:20:29,300 --> 00:20:33,200
overall? 
I mean, a lot of the sector is 

376
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:37,700
pretty utilitarian like 
concrete's where the where the 

377
00:20:37,700 --> 00:20:39,800
show is? 
For that kind of Technology, 

378
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:42,300
right? 
The other stuff is interesting 

379
00:20:42,300 --> 00:20:45,200
and Cool, but it's not really 
where the volume is going to be.

380
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,600
So in that case, it's a little 
bit more, nothing wrong with 

381
00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:50,400
this, a little more marketing 
based it's show. 

382
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,000
It's awful. 
I think that's where the vast 

383
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:56,600
majority of the carbon capture 
world is at least in terms of 

384
00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:59,500
carbon to product and that's 
fine. 

385
00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:02,100
I think it really just depends 
on the kind of thing that you're

386
00:21:02,100 --> 00:21:04,000
making you know. 
For instance if you're making a 

387
00:21:04,008 --> 00:21:08,100
fuel that's totally cool and 
great but that's not really 

388
00:21:08,100 --> 00:21:11,000
something that that consumers 
are going to interact with very 

389
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:12,700
much. 
We just happen to make a 

390
00:21:12,700 --> 00:21:15,900
material. 
Ariel that does result in 

391
00:21:15,900 --> 00:21:18,600
products that you can hold your 
hands and have them be part of 

392
00:21:18,608 --> 00:21:21,500
your life. 
So I guess we feel fortunate 

393
00:21:21,500 --> 00:21:24,300
that regard because it's fun for
us too. 

394
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,000
Can I ask what your favorite 
product is that you've created? 

395
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,500
Or is that like asking who's 
your favorite child? 

396
00:21:31,300 --> 00:21:36,600
Oh yeah, I've had different 
flings with different products. 

397
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,500
There was a time when I was 
William fascinated, with our 

398
00:21:39,500 --> 00:21:43,500
straw, it was a bit awkward to 
really feel so strongly about a 

399
00:21:43,500 --> 00:21:46,800
straw, but I'll choose a 
favorite child who is going to 

400
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:49,700
be hard, you know, I really, 
really like, are for you. 

401
00:21:49,900 --> 00:21:53,100
Here's what I like about it. 
Obviously, it's carbon - but it,

402
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:55,900
but it also it just, it just 
works so well. 

403
00:21:55,900 --> 00:21:59,200
It's not like kind of that. 
Flimsy Fork, that's annoying and

404
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:01,700
kind of you go, go into the 
South and it folds over on 

405
00:22:01,700 --> 00:22:04,500
itself. 
It's not too brittle, it's just 

406
00:22:04,500 --> 00:22:06,600
great. 
And I guess why that matters to 

407
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,800
me is, we don't want to make 
stuff that people have to settle

408
00:22:10,100 --> 00:22:13,200
and our goal. 
The reason that I spent my 

409
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,100
entire adult life in this is I 
want to see impact and I want to

410
00:22:16,108 --> 00:22:18,200
see scale. 
I think in order to get there, 

411
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,800
you got to create products that 
people love it can't feel like 

412
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:24,700
they're settling and so it's 
just a fork. 

413
00:22:24,700 --> 00:22:26,100
But it also represents 
something. 

414
00:22:26,100 --> 00:22:28,000
It means that. 
Hey, like, this isn't? 

415
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:29,900
This is possible. 
This is a different path. 

416
00:22:30,300 --> 00:22:33,100
Now, of course, I'm sitting your
loot, my wallet are carbon. 

417
00:22:33,100 --> 00:22:34,900
Loading, wall is sitting here 
looking at me. 

418
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:38,000
So I'm feeling a little guilty, 
but I want to say it out loud, 

419
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:39,400
but maybe it's my second 
favorite. 

420
00:22:40,700 --> 00:22:44,900
I have definitely used that 
wooden In Fork has broken on me 

421
00:22:45,100 --> 00:22:48,200
and it is intensely aggravated. 
Yeah. 

422
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:52,200
I mean you gotta worry about 
those those splinters that you 

423
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:53,200
know, maybe they don't come 
through. 

424
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:54,400
Maybe they do. 
You don't know. 

425
00:22:54,700 --> 00:22:56,900
Are the spork that does nothing?
Yeah. 

426
00:22:56,900 --> 00:22:59,600
Well, those useless talking 
about the one that I'm talking 

427
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,700
about is terrible. 
So, that's, that's the one to 

428
00:23:02,700 --> 00:23:06,000
beat sounds like, I mean, I 
enjoy, you know, I haven't 

429
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:07,800
convinced it seemed yet to move 
over to sport. 

430
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:10,300
That's that's my next big 
ambition in life. 

431
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:12,600
Wow. 
What a sentence? 

432
00:23:12,900 --> 00:23:16,200
Okay, you mentioned blockchain 
to what are you using? 

433
00:23:16,900 --> 00:23:22,600
Yeah, so we teamed up with IBM 
few years back and we've set up 

434
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:27,100
a system where all of our 
process inputs and outputs are 

435
00:23:27,500 --> 00:23:31,500
tracked and I'm hyper Ledger. 
Is that what they're stolen? 

436
00:23:31,500 --> 00:23:36,000
Yeah I think they use their 
Linux one system its cloud-based

437
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,500
system. 
And so what were able to do is 

438
00:23:39,700 --> 00:23:42,000
all of our production metrics 
flow into this. 

439
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:46,400
And so when you plug in this 
number, each one of these are 

440
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,800
fashion products come with a 
unique number. 

441
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:52,400
So there's is not like, there's 
like, 20 of them have the same, 

442
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:58,700
they're all individually, either
UV printed or laser etched, and 

443
00:23:58,700 --> 00:24:01,600
they have a, basically, that 
number of corresponds to a time,

444
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,200
and that time was the moment 
that the air carbon used to make

445
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:07,000
that product was produced. 
So you plug it in. 

446
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,500
And it, and it, then pulls the 
data from our system that shows 

447
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:14,200
when these different steps 
happened, And then also on the 

448
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,800
blockchain is the LCA associated
with that product. 

449
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,000
So that was a pretty intensive 
setup. 

450
00:24:20,100 --> 00:24:23,600
But again, we wanted to make it 
so it's like well how do I know 

451
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:25,300
like where this thing came from 
so well? 

452
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:29,200
Okay, plug this number in and 
you can see and and blockchain 

453
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,900
is so unique in the sense that 
it's really the only technology 

454
00:24:32,900 --> 00:24:36,300
that could give someone that 
level of assurance that yeah, 

455
00:24:36,300 --> 00:24:39,600
this is, this is the pathway so 
that was, that was something 

456
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,900
that we found really attractive 
and then You eventually combine 

457
00:24:43,900 --> 00:24:47,300
that over into the carbon value 
side, maybe the carbon credit 

458
00:24:47,300 --> 00:24:49,600
side, you can see a lot of 
potential there. 

459
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:51,300
I think you're speaking our 
language. 

460
00:24:51,300 --> 00:24:54,400
They're erratic is not going to 
jump at the bait listeners are 

461
00:24:54,408 --> 00:24:55,600
probably had their fill of that 
one. 

462
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,200
I think I was I was going to say
to you and Kristoff. 

463
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,100
Did that great on the first 
episode? 

464
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,300
Oh man, Mark, you had some 
amazing line. 

465
00:25:04,300 --> 00:25:07,300
Like I want to do a trailer of 
the show, and take all the 

466
00:25:07,300 --> 00:25:10,000
funniest moments and stack them 
up against each other. 

467
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,400
And I think you, one of your 
lines is a natural. 

468
00:25:12,500 --> 00:25:14,900
Fit which is asking you to find 
polymer? 

469
00:25:14,900 --> 00:25:16,600
Do you remember that part of the
show? 

470
00:25:16,900 --> 00:25:18,900
Yeah. 
I think I nailed that one ice 

471
00:25:18,900 --> 00:25:26,100
cream Polly and myrrh period. 
Just like Mike job the end and 

472
00:25:26,100 --> 00:25:28,900
we all died laughing. 
Yeah, of course everyone knows 

473
00:25:28,900 --> 00:25:33,100
that the Latin Premier is. 
Yeah, very good whiny 

474
00:25:33,100 --> 00:25:35,600
predictions moving forward where
there's the space going to go in

475
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,000
the next couple of years. 
What are you looking forward to?

476
00:25:39,100 --> 00:25:40,800
Gosh. 
Right now it's all about scale. 

477
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,200
We feel like we just installed 
our solar panel. 

478
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:48,400
And so now it's installing a 
whole lot of solar panels and 

479
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,700
not to be flippant with that. 
What I mean is that, we've now 

480
00:25:50,700 --> 00:25:54,500
achieved with scale, where it's 
now, more replication of. 

481
00:25:54,900 --> 00:25:57,000
And that's really important 
because that gives us the 

482
00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,100
ability to grow faster. 
You mean, like internally at the

483
00:26:00,100 --> 00:26:03,000
factories that your company? 
Actually, I was not licensing or

484
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:07,500
both well both but you know, our
main focus is us just putting 

485
00:26:07,500 --> 00:26:10,900
our own facilities up, okay? 
Like I said, we're still totally

486
00:26:10,900 --> 00:26:13,500
supportive of and we'll support 
licensing on the way. 

487
00:26:14,300 --> 00:26:17,500
But yeah. 
By with eagle 3 now online, it's

488
00:26:18,300 --> 00:26:22,900
its growth time and so that's 
really our or at least certainly

489
00:26:22,900 --> 00:26:26,300
one of my central focus is now 
is is where Eagle for is going 

490
00:26:26,300 --> 00:26:28,800
in and getting that up and 
going. 

491
00:26:29,500 --> 00:26:32,200
And then to your point figuring 
out how to pull the freight, 

492
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,500
this thing in the smartest way 
possible. 

493
00:26:34,900 --> 00:26:38,700
So, we'll see that we'll see 
more product types coming out. 

494
00:26:38,900 --> 00:26:41,400
Of our Ambitions is to launch 
within the next. 

495
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,800
Five years over 90% of the 
product types, the end up in the

496
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:46,700
ocean, currently to share that 
there. 

497
00:26:46,700 --> 00:26:51,000
Is it there is a pathway that we
can, in fact come close to 

498
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:54,600
stopping the consistent 
accumulation of Plastics in the 

499
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:56,100
ocean. 
It's not gonna be easy. 

500
00:26:56,100 --> 00:26:59,800
It's gonna take a long time but 
there is a pathway and you know 

501
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,400
just continue to have bigger and
bigger impact for us. 

502
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,400
Maybe you can ask for a tour and
get another hard hat, huh? 

503
00:27:06,700 --> 00:27:08,700
They were also very excited 
about the heart. 

504
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:13,200
They talked about that again 
today, we've got some serious 

505
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,400
goodies. 
Now, Roz, we've got high file 

506
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,200
storage, which I find 
particularly exciting. 

507
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:23,600
So there's that all of our hard 
hats are now fully uv-treated, 

508
00:27:23,700 --> 00:27:25,900
you know, with with our covid 
protocols. 

509
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,800
So it's gotten exponentially 
more exciting if you want to 

510
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:33,100
come by, I'm like a sad 
Humanities writer. 

511
00:27:33,100 --> 00:27:38,300
Now software guys, anything that
touches Hardware, this is very 

512
00:27:38,300 --> 00:27:40,000
exciting. 
And you can't hear because she 

513
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:43,800
made it herself but Radha is 
dying at my expense right now. 

514
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,600
We're gonna talk about this 
afterwards actually. 

515
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:52,400
One cool thing is now we also 
have finished products are being

516
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,000
produced on site, so it's kind 
of cool. 

517
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,300
You look over here, you see gas 
flowing in or you see the pipes 

518
00:27:58,300 --> 00:28:02,300
were gas flowing in and then 
over here you see straws coming 

519
00:28:02,300 --> 00:28:06,000
out and it's kind of neat. 
At least I've been doing this 

520
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:07,400
quite a while but it's still 
cool. 

521
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,100
Cool to see that. 
These gases are being turned 

522
00:28:10,100 --> 00:28:13,300
into finished products. 
So yeah, come on by. 

523
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,600
We'll give you some more 
tomorrow hard hats, and If 

524
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,500
someone is loving this show, 
they want to support what you're

525
00:28:19,500 --> 00:28:20,900
doing. 
What's the best way for them to 

526
00:28:20,908 --> 00:28:23,400
do? 
So, I think spreading the word 

527
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,000
is great. 
Letting people know that we're 

528
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:30,000
making these products, both our 
food, we're and our fashion 

529
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:35,600
products and check them out and 
tell us what you think we love 

530
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,900
to give feedback. 
And you know, I think part of 

531
00:28:38,900 --> 00:28:41,900
what we want to do is show 
people that there is another way

532
00:28:42,100 --> 00:28:45,400
if we can turn it into these 
products, you know what else is 

533
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:47,000
possible. 
So So, I think spreading the 

534
00:28:47,008 --> 00:28:50,500
word is, is our favorite thing. 
I got my eye on one of these 

535
00:28:50,500 --> 00:28:52,200
wallets. 
Actually I'm in the market for 

536
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:56,200
one, so maybe I'll, maybe you'll
see a little purchase come your 

537
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,600
way here soon. 
All right, there's a, we that's 

538
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:01,400
it. 
We developed a little hexa 

539
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:03,900
hexagon pattern on. 
So, if you're, if you're 

540
00:29:03,900 --> 00:29:05,200
choosing, I would recommend that
one. 

541
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,900
That's my personal favorite. 
Thanks for the tip. 

542
00:29:07,900 --> 00:29:10,100
Yeah. 
Anything else erotica? 

543
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:12,500
Nope. 
It's super nice to meet you, 

544
00:29:12,500 --> 00:29:15,300
mark, that was really 
interesting and really looking 

545
00:29:15,300 --> 00:29:17,700
forward to where you guys Head 
in the future. 

546
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,300
I'm waiting for my class 
non-plastic. 

547
00:29:20,300 --> 00:29:23,300
Are carbon water bottle? 
That's like the dream. 

548
00:29:23,700 --> 00:29:27,400
Yeah, yeah, so they bother me 
the most, the water bottles that

549
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,600
I see floating in the ocean. 
It just seems incongruous 

550
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,300
somehow, I'll put it this way. 
That that problem will be 

551
00:29:33,300 --> 00:29:38,300
solved. 
So it's on the radar kg 

552
00:29:38,300 --> 00:29:41,700
industrial speak sounds like, 
but maybe there's something in 

553
00:29:41,700 --> 00:29:44,300
the future to come. 
We'll see, thanks for being here

554
00:29:44,300 --> 00:29:45,800
Mark. 
All right guys. 

555
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:46,800
Thanks. 
Or having me on. 

556
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,600
Thank you. 
Yeah good to have you here. 

557
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:51,700
Good to have a catch up. 
If you like what we're doing 

558
00:29:51,700 --> 00:29:53,800
here, please give us a great 
rating and review on Apple 

559
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:55,300
podcast. 
It helps a lot. 

560
00:29:55,300 --> 00:29:58,700
Hey go buy some stuff over from 
New Light links to all the 

561
00:29:58,700 --> 00:30:00,800
things we discussed are in the 
show notes, and thank you so 

562
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:07,900
much for listening. 
Thank you so much for listening.

563
00:30:07,900 --> 00:30:10,300
If you like the show, please 
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564
00:30:10,300 --> 00:30:13,500
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565
00:30:13,500 --> 00:30:15,200
this content to a wider 
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566
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:17,900
If you think what we're Owen is 
useful, interesting fun. 

567
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,100
Hopefully all three. 
We certainly appreciate your 

568
00:30:20,100 --> 00:30:22,400
rating and review. 
You can keep up with Nori at nor

569
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,100
e.com where there is a 
newsletter that's nor e.com. 

570
00:30:25,300 --> 00:30:28,400
Subscribe, there's podcast. 
There's a whole bunch else or 

571
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,300
you can send us an email at 
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572
00:30:31,500 --> 00:30:35,400
We are also now on patreon at 
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573
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,400
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574
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:40,100
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support.