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Hey, thanks for listening. 
This is Ross Kenyon. 

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I'm the host of Reversing 
Climate Change, the podcast you 

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are listening to right at this 
very moment. 

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Before we get into the bulk of 
today's show, I'd love to tell 

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you about our sponsors, Absolute
Climate and Philip Lee LLP. 

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I've made great radio with both 
of them. 

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They should be familiar to you 
if you listen to this show, but 

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I want to tell you about why you
should learn a little bit more. 

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The first sponsor is Absolute 
Climate. 

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I did a show with their founder 
Peter Miner few months back and 

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a lot of people love that show. 
I was asking a question of can 

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registries design their own 
methodologies for carbon markets

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without it being a conflict of 
interest? 

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An absolute climate's thesis is 
no, they shouldn't be in the 

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business of doing that. 
We actually need to disintegrate

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functionality within carbon 
markets even further. 

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They are literally the only 
independent standards body for 

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carbon removal that exists. 
Their name is very well chosen. 

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I think they are some of the 
most aggressively idealistic 

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people within carbon removal. 
It's come up on reversing 

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climate change so many times 
about how and why there's 

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tension between commercial teams
and science teams within carbon 

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markets. 
There's some fundamental tension

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between the rules of running a 
business, or I should say the 

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rules of running a profitable 
business is maybe a better way 

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to put that and climate impact. 
And I think Absolute is one of 

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those companies that, at least 
from my experience of what I 

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know of them over there, I think
they're going to be some of the 

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staunchest holdouts just trying 
to make sure that there can be a

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justified true belief that a ton
purchase is a ton truly removed.

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They're betting big on not 
compromising. 

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It's a bold strategy. 
I respect the absolute hell out 

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of that. 
Absolute is very much doing 

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things their own way, and they 
stand out to me and I will never

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mistake them in a lineup. 
Go check them out. 

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I really am endlessly fascinated
by what they're doing. 

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And that's also true of our 
other sponsor, Philip Lee LLP. 

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In fact, I told him to pitch me 
on some weirder legal shows. 

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I really like doing shows about 
the law. 

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I think the law is such a 
fascinating part of our shared 

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social life. 
It structures so much of it. 

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It's badly understood by most 
people. 

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Just structuring deals within 
carbon removal is hard. 

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I'm talking grown up deals here,
like when you're trying to put 

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together an enormous package, 
complicated structuring, a lot 

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of money, changing hands, The 
stakes are high. 

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You really do need a good 
lawyer. 

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I'm sorry to tell you that if 
you are a startup out there in 

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carbon removal, you're going to 
probably pay a fair amount of 

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money to lawyers. 
There's just no way around it. 

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Your choice is basically do you 
get a bad lawyer or a good 

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lawyer. 
One really cool thing I can say 

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on Philip Lee LL PS behalf. 
Well, one Ryan Covington and I 

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did a very fun show about how 
basically no one except for an 

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elite few really know what 
bankability and project finance 

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even mean. 
And he lays it out very clearly.

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If you'd like to go listen to 
that show, it's awesome and it's

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LinkedIn the show notes. 
And also we end up talking about

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Ernest Hemingway for him not to.
So it keeps with the tradition 

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of reversing climate change. 
One also really cool thing is 

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that they just won Environmental
Finances VCM Law Firm of the 

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Year. 
They put it three years in a 

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row, 2023-2024 and 2025. 
It's the only award for legal 

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teams operating in the VCM, and 
they have offices in the US, 

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Europe and the UK. 
You should check out Philip Lee 

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LLP. 
Thank you from the bottom of my 

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heart for listening to this and 
thank you to our sponsors. 

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You really make this so that 
it's something that in a busy 

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life with lots of competing 
priorities, I'm able to keep 

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coming back and making more. 
Reversing Climate Change. 

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Thanks so much for what you do. 
And now here is the show. 

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Hello, and welcome to the 
Reversing Climate Change 

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podcast. 
I'm Ross Kenyon, I'm the host of

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Reversing Climate Change, and 
I've been working in climate 

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tech and carbon removal for the 
better part of the last decade. 

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Today's show is cool. 
It's about bio mimicry, it's 

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about mining, it's about 
processing ore. 

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I'm going to tell you all about 
it, But first, if I can make a 

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quick ask of you, if you love 
this show, open up your podcast 

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app right now. 
Give it a great rating or review

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or both. 
It really helps a lot. 

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Also, for $5 a month, you can 
become a paid subscriber. 

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You get bonus content. 
It gets rid of all the ads 

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except for the ones that I read 
at the beginning of the show 

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myself, and you get to be a 
power supporter of the show. 

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Today's show is with Doctor Liz 
Dennett. 

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Liz is the CEO and founder of 
Endalith, which is a company 

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that is using microbes to better
extract copper from ore. 

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Much of the copper inside of the
ore is wasted. 

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It's just not worth the effort 
of pulling it out of the ore. 

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But with endless system, they 
can use microbes to make much of

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that copper much more available.
And we need enormous amounts of 

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copper. 
Liz and I talk about this in the

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show. 
Almost no matter what else 

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happens, we're going to need 
more copper, especially as we 

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begin to electrify so much about
our world. 

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One cool thing about Endolith is
that literally today they're 

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announcing that they just raised
$13.5 million in a Series A. 

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At least from the press release 
I'm reading that there is 

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potentially an oversubscription 
at hand, and there may even be 

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more funds coming in a second 
tranche. 

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I love plays like this. 
I love when you're able to use 

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biology to enhance a process and
that's what's happening here. 

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Liz is a multidisciplinary 
person, has had a fascinating 

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career. 
We start off by talking about 

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how did life originate at all, 
some of the basic biochemistry 

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of the world. 
That's a cool show. 

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We also explore what it's like 
trying to transform an 

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extractive industry and which 
levers the pole. 

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At which point should you be 
trying to change the entire 

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mining industry? 
Can you change a plug and play 

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process that makes it much 
better without trying to change 

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any of the fundamentals? 
How does one begin to transform 

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an industry as old as 
civilization itself? 

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Great questions. 
I hope you enjoy. 

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Here's the show with Liz 
Dennett. 

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Liz, thank you for being here. 
It's. 

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Truly my pleasure. 
I'm very excited to be here. 

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I'm so happy to have you. 
God, you have so many board 

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games behind you. 
I don't think I've ever 

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interviewed someone with with 
the background first time. 

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Which is funny because you have 
so many books behind you. 

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And then you said it wasn't even
a real background. 

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I'm saying. 
Riverside is lying to you. 

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We will get you a copy of this 
and you 2 can have the same 

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background. 
Although I can touch these, 

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these are actually real board 
games. 

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People are gonna be like, are 
you weirdly obsessed with Liz 

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Dennett? 
Like, why do you have her 

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background? 
And people are gonna make this 

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connection. 
I'm gonna look like strange. 

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If they do, it'll be amazing. 
Are you kidding? 

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I'll be like Dad, you're 
president of my fan clubs. 

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Oh, which we if you're less 
podcast and want to be part of 

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my fan club. 
Wow, that's the egotistical 

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thing I've ever said. 
And I am a micro influencer on 

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LinkedIn, so I yeah, I always 
like more than just my mom 

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following me on LinkedIn. 
I have, I don't know, probably 

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15,000 people that follow along 
for my stream of consciousness 

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musings that are not written by 
AI. 

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That's. 
That's the fair amount. 

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I feel like there's LinkedIn 
influencers who are obviously 

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bigger than that, but probably 
for the specialized field in 

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which you traffic, that's 
probably like very impressive. 

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It is, actually. 
It's pretty. 

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It's pretty novel, given that 
most of my postings are like, I 

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have strong thoughts about this 
niche topic about copper markets

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or about microbes or about 
whatever the daily topic is. 

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I. 
Love that about people though. 

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I think basically everything is 
interesting and if you can get 

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passionate about it. 
I always loved the Martin Luther

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King junior line where you said 
if you sweep floors, you sweep 

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that floor like Michelangelo 
painted ceilings and if you love

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bio mimicry for mining and and 
mineral extraction, then you 

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paint that ceiling that that's 
you. 

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These are these are the friends 
that I run with. 

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I have a really cool group of 
friends out here in Denver and 

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I've had some incredible friends
my whole life. 

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And we have the nerdiest 
convert. 

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I mean, I don't think they're 
nerdy. 

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I think they're fascinating, but
they go down into the weeds 

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very, very quickly. 
I like those people too. 

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I mean, some of them can be can 
wear my patients. 

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It depends on how good of a 
listener they are. 

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They're the pair of the the 
combination of the things are 

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they're just exhausting but. 
You need the IQ and the EQ, both

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of them at the same time. 
I know. 

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I think the longer in life I I 
hang in there, the more I'm 

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like, balance is key. 
One of those dominates over the 

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other life outcomes decrease in 
some way. 

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You've clearly discovered 
something as well parallel to 

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that. 
My my friends here and the 

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people that I spend time with 
have much higher motional 

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intelligence that I do and I'm 
constantly learning from them 

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and being like, hey, how would I
navigate this situation? 

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There was 1 executive coach I 
once had that pretty much said, 

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you know, you are the 10 people 
you spend the most time with. 

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And that's resonated a lot 
because I don't want the 10 

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people I spend the most time 
with to be the random Jim Bros 

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at the 24 Hour Fitness down the 
street that don't know my name. 

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I want them to be people that 
can actually challenge me and 

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push back on how I'm thinking 
about the world and navigating 

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it at large. 
It's. 

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A good policy. 
I think that's that's pretty 

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wise, Liz. 
When I look at companies like 

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yours, I have a hard time. 
Let me put it this way. 

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If it turned out that there was 
a hidden camera and this was all

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made-up and I just did a podcast
with something that doesn't 

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actually make sense, I wouldn't 
be surprised. 

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I'm like, how could how could 
microbes possibly enhance 

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mineral extraction? 
I just it seems sounds made-up I

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think. 
Without so many of the pita bee 

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sauces that I hear or like so 
many of the probably some. 

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Of. 
Them are made-up that come out. 

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I'm like, wow, you're one 
person. 

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You're valued at like hundreds 
of millions of dollars. 

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This is crazy. 
So quick. 

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Quick little expose about 
microbes. 

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Microbes have been around for 
billions of years. 

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They're the oldest form of life 
on earth. 

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If your body was a timeline. 
The earth is 4.6 billion years 

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old. 
If you were to condense that 

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into the height of humans, 
microbes would evolved around 

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your knees and single celled 
organisms would be around until 

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your chin. 
So the vast majority of time on 

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earth is just in microbes. 
They live pretty much everywhere

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on earth. 
Dinosaurs came in here around 

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your nose. 
Eyebrows died out right before 

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your head. 
All of humanity is a single hair

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on the top of your head. 
So humans are a little blip in 

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terms of geologic time, but 
microbes are the O GS. 

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They have been doing so much 
stuff they are able to oxidize 

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and reduce all redox sensitive 
elements out there. 

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My PhD was in astrobiology where
I worked for NASA. 

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Looking at how they could 
oxidize and reduce iron and 

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sulfur phases on early earth is 
a proxy for life on Mars. 

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What did you do head around 
that? 

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Using them and harnessing them 
to get more copper out of low 

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grade ores is is not actually 
that crazy. 

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OK, I have to ask you, are you 
friends with David Grinspoon? 

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Are you guys pals? 
We went way back. 

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We first met at this Fame Lab 
competition in 2010, 2011. 

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Nice. 
He's been on the podcast a 

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couple of times. 
I'm one of the like top 

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percentile of Earth and human 
hands fanboys out there. 

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I think he's just a yeah, the 
view from space, planetary 

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science. 
It's kind of represented in this

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00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:27,000
space. 
I don't know why it, it calms 

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me. 
It encourages me. 

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It doesn't it, it helps me. 
I don't know why people don't 

231
00:11:30,560 --> 00:11:33,800
lean on it more. 
One of my life goals was 

232
00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:36,800
completed at New York Climate 
Week about two weeks ago when I 

233
00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:39,600
got to meet Bill Nye in person. 
How was that? 

234
00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:44,560
I knew that I was going to meet 
him all day, and so I had the 

235
00:11:44,560 --> 00:11:46,920
full day to prep and mentally, 
like rehearse what I was going 

236
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to say. 
I was so ready to play it cool. 

237
00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:51,960
And there's a series of pictures
in a video of him being 

238
00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:54,280
interviewed and me going up 
there and just being like, I'm 

239
00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:57,880
sure. 
You get that a lot. 

240
00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:02,680
Yeah, but normally not for like 
almost 40 year old CEOs that 

241
00:12:02,680 --> 00:12:05,480
have also done a fair number of 
things and her PhDs in their own

242
00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:06,440
right. 
And I was just like. 

243
00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:11,520
Well, he's sort of in the 
millennial pantheon, I think. 

244
00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:15,640
Everyone. 
Really is and like they always 

245
00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:18,440
say, never meet your heroes and 
that that is a lie. 

246
00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:20,120
It was one of the best moments 
my entire. 

247
00:12:21,560 --> 00:12:22,920
Life. 
Wow, do you? 

248
00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:27,720
I get, I get kind of spiritual, 
kind of just just wowed and and 

249
00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:29,840
my mind gets blown by just 
thinking about how eukaryotes 

250
00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:31,440
came around. 
Like does that, does that do 

251
00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:32,800
something to you when you look 
at that too? 

252
00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:34,840
Yeah, yeah. 
And like, here's the reason that

253
00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:37,320
I grew up in this little tiny 
town in Alaska, middle of 

254
00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:39,880
nowhere. 
My undergrad was in geology, 

255
00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:42,440
which is actually really funny 
because I was back up in Alaska 

256
00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,760
last week working with the same 
geology professor, Doctor Leanne

257
00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:48,840
Monk, that I first started with 
20 plus years ago. 

258
00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:53,480
So, so many of these are full 
circle moments, but I fun story.

259
00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:57,920
Once Upon a time in college, I 
was an RA in the dorms and I 

260
00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:00,280
picked up some extra shifts 
during college to make money. 

261
00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:01,880
And I was a big fan of science 
fiction. 

262
00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:05,000
So I read like every Michael 
Crichton book that was out 

263
00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:06,280
there. 
I read the Andronomist train, I 

264
00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:08,240
read Jurassic Park. 
And then I was like, I don't 

265
00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:10,200
really know much about DNA in 
general. 

266
00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:13,360
I just take a biology class and 
that led me into taking 

267
00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:15,800
chemistry classes, which 
eventually led me into this this

268
00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:17,960
astrobiology field when I was 
like, this is the coolest thing 

269
00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:22,800
I've ever done. 
And there are still frequently 

270
00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:25,560
not just the development of 
eukaryotes, which if listeners 

271
00:13:25,560 --> 00:13:28,800
are not keen on the ways of 
eukaryotes, they're actually 

272
00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,640
thought that one prokaryote 
gobbled up another one and that 

273
00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:35,520
became the mitochondria. 
But so much, so many of these 

274
00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:39,640
pieces of life and how crazy 
life is just still give me 

275
00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:42,720
goosebumps thinking about them. 
A few of them. 

276
00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:47,680
Us as humans, We are star stuff.
We are carbon, hydrogen, oxygen,

277
00:13:47,680 --> 00:13:50,760
nitrogen. 
The planet is a rocky body mass,

278
00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:52,600
is oxygen, silica, aluminum, 
iron. 

279
00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,240
We are not of this planet, we 
are of the stars. 

280
00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:58,440
If you look at the elements made
by Big Bang nucleosynthesis, 

281
00:13:58,680 --> 00:14:00,880
they are the carbon, the oxygen,
the nitrogen. 

282
00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:03,240
They are what we are made of. 
So we are much more like these 

283
00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:08,320
stars than of the planets. 
Also every life Organism on 

284
00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:12,800
Earth had to evolve from 1:00 
universal common ancestor. 

285
00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,920
And about 3 point something 
billion years ago the earth had 

286
00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:19,080
this thing called the late heavy
bombardment which meant that the

287
00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:23,640
surface of it was was bombarded 
pretty much liquid. 

288
00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:27,640
Lots of liquid magma and 
microbial life survived through 

289
00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:29,320
that. 
And if you look at the traits 

290
00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:33,840
that all life has in common or 
the if you look at phylogenetic 

291
00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:37,000
trees, the things that are 
deeply rooted are thermophilic 

292
00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,760
organisms that can oxidize and 
reduce iron. 

293
00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,760
And it's thought because those 
are the only thing that survived

294
00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:45,400
that late heavy bombardment. 
That's why I went on to study 

295
00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:46,400
them. 
And that's why we think they 

296
00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:49,040
could have evolved on Mars. 
Another one is that Mars was 

297
00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:51,080
more Earth like. 
Before Earth was Earth like. 

298
00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:54,160
Mars had running water, it had 
rivers, it had the atmosphere, 

299
00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:56,120
it had everything that we think 
of as early Earth. 

300
00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:59,240
Earth, late heavy bombardment. 
We were getting the crap beat 

301
00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:01,560
out of us. 
Whereas Mars was beautiful. 

302
00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:04,840
And so there's a whole thought 
called Lithopan spermia that 

303
00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:08,400
life evolved on Mars and came 
over to Earth, which actually 

304
00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:11,600
isn't that crazy because if you 
look at things like lustrids and

305
00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:15,000
planetary bodies, they have the 
building blocks of life. 

306
00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:19,400
They have amino acids, they have
DNA and nucleotides on that. 

307
00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,360
They're not uncommon in the 
universe, but creating them into

308
00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:24,920
self replicating molecules is 
very uncommon. 

309
00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:27,720
Or at least that's what we think
given the Hermi paradox and some

310
00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:29,560
of the other paradoxes is the 
uncommon block. 

311
00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:34,000
I mean in just case the can 
though abiogenesis trips me out 

312
00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:36,760
as well just as much. 
And how could you get amino 

313
00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:40,640
acids and heat whatever and 
somehow it becomes self 

314
00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:42,800
replicating? 
How could how? 

315
00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:45,840
Just what's like the best theory
for why that even happened? 

316
00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:49,680
Is Shakespeare what's just 
saying about the monkeys and 

317
00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,840
Shakespeare's No. 
I think it's more that entropy 

318
00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:57,160
always wins and self regulating 
molecules typically, and I've 

319
00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,960
friends that are massive experts
at this, but if if you look at 

320
00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:04,720
conservation of energy, if you 
have a system that is going to 

321
00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:09,720
ultimately be able to have the 
optimized energy systems, it's 

322
00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:12,080
going to win out given time. 
And also we're not looking at 

323
00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:15,760
all the times life didn't start.
It had potentially a billion or 

324
00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:18,640
half a billion years to try and 
try and try and try again. 

325
00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:22,200
It's still mind blowing and 
still crazy though. 

326
00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:25,480
But also keep in mind that we 
all use one chirality of amino 

327
00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:27,880
acids. 
We are not evil Star Trek. 

328
00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:33,440
We're the other universe is an 
evil Spock use the one handed 

329
00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:34,760
amino acids. 
I think they're right-handed. 

330
00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:36,520
We all use left-handed amino 
acids here. 

331
00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:40,040
So there really is an order to 
how life has evolved on this 

332
00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:44,960
planet. 
Oh my goodness. 

333
00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:47,960
I mean, how long was it between 
prokaryotes and eukaryotes? 

334
00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:51,040
It's like a billion years or 
something where there's like one

335
00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:53,480
out. 1.3 billion years. 3 
billion years. 

336
00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:55,720
OK. 
And then one of them ate another

337
00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:57,080
one and somehow it didn't get 
digested. 

338
00:16:57,080 --> 00:16:59,680
It just became like teamwork, 
collaboration. 

339
00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,680
And that was exactly one time. 
One time it took 3 billion 

340
00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:03,520
years. 
It happened one time 

341
00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:04,880
potentially. 
Well, maybe, maybe multiple 

342
00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:05,920
times. 
They just never divided. 

343
00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:09,520
In the IT only survived one time
and then once we had eukaryotic 

344
00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:13,760
cells, which all but pretty much
one Organism that's eukaryotic 

345
00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:15,720
uses. 
Oxygen is a terminal electron 

346
00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:18,240
acceptor. 
So all life on Earth you need an

347
00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:20,040
electron donor, an electron 
acceptor. 

348
00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:23,440
Oxygen is the electron acceptor.
It's why we breathe oxygen. 

349
00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:25,880
It gives us so much more energy 
than anything else. 

350
00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:28,880
Since microbes are so small, 
they don't have to use oxygen. 

351
00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:31,480
Most of them actually thrive in 
places without oxygen. 

352
00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:35,320
But to support the cellular mass
that you need to be a eukaryote,

353
00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:37,640
you need oxygen if you want to 
get big and strong. 

354
00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:42,600
And. 
We yeah, we didn't have oxygen 

355
00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:46,720
until the microbes did it. 
So this is inspiring for you. 

356
00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:51,520
You're looking at all of these 
planetary impactful biological 

357
00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:53,200
processes. 
You're have a geology 

358
00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:55,760
background, a biology background
and you're you're just thinking 

359
00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:58,280
how can these things combine in 
this way that can unlock in a 

360
00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:04,320
bio mimicry orientation mining. 
No, no, that no way too much 

361
00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:08,440
sense that that is like us as 
evolved humans looking back on 

362
00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:10,800
three, 84 billion years of 
evolution and being like 

363
00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:13,560
obviously you did it in this 
organized system. 

364
00:18:14,120 --> 00:18:15,600
Nice narrative for you that 
makes it. 

365
00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:17,080
Apparently there's no narrative.
It's chaos. 

366
00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:22,560
It mimics so much of the 
evolutionary pathways we're 

367
00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:26,080
going to talk about Where if you
look at how microbes, for 

368
00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:29,680
instance, microbe single celled 
Organism doesn't have cell brain

369
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,120
cell, it doesn't have membrane 
bound organelles. 

370
00:18:32,120 --> 00:18:34,760
If you remember back to your 
biology, mitochondria powerhouse

371
00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:35,640
the cell. 
They don't, they don't know 

372
00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:37,920
mitochondria. 
But the way microbes move 

373
00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:40,760
through space is typically there
will be like a chemotaxis 

374
00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,840
gradient. 
Microbe will pick a direction 

375
00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:46,480
and it'll go in that direction 
and be like, is it better here? 

376
00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:48,360
Is it better there? 
And it'll walk in that direction

377
00:18:48,360 --> 00:18:49,840
and be like, OK, it's better 
here. 

378
00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:52,000
I'm going to stay here and I'm 
going to keep doing it like the 

379
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:54,680
optometrist. 
Better one, better 2 microbes 

380
00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:57,480
will do this somewhat random 
walk that ultimately moves them 

381
00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:00,920
in the position towards whatever
chemical or whatever stimulus 

382
00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:06,280
they want to move in. 
Not till my career is so after 

383
00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:09,480
my PHDI was an oil and gas 
geologist in Houston for a few 

384
00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:13,120
years, then left for a start up 
that came to pitch to us. 

385
00:19:13,120 --> 00:19:14,960
It was the coolest start up I'd 
ever heard of at the time. 

386
00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:17,840
Did that for a few years. 
Was going to get an MBA but 

387
00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:20,800
instead decided to learn more 
about computers and the clouds 

388
00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,680
so I went to work for Amazon Web
Services as an architect. 

389
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:28,040
Completely pivoted my career. 
Did that for a few years and 

390
00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:30,600
then left to join a company 
based in Scotland as a VPA, data

391
00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:31,840
architecture and Data 
engineering. 

392
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,600
Then became a CTO of a company 
called Senvita and then spun 

393
00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,040
this out and decided to become a
founder and CEO of Endless. 

394
00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:40,960
Yes, you're making me feel bad. 
You're keeping good at all these

395
00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:42,640
things, Liz. 
Like, can you chill out a little

396
00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:45,280
bit? 
I never thought I was great it's

397
00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:47,480
any of these. 
I have been surrounded by 

398
00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:50,280
absolutely incredible people at 
all of these who have taken 

399
00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:54,480
chances on this girl from this 
Old Town in Alaska and that my 

400
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:58,320
my superpower is not that I it's
very rare that I am the smartest

401
00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:01,480
person in the room, but I will 
work my ass off. 

402
00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:05,080
Like I like to think I'm a duck 
calm on the surface, but 

403
00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:08,800
underneath like nice weekend, 
4:00 in the morning. 

404
00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:11,840
So I'm an early morning person. 
I will outwork anyone I permit. 

405
00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:14,080
So that's the only thing you can
control is your work effect. 

406
00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:16,960
Huh. 
OK, interesting. 

407
00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:19,640
Well, you're almost too 
specialized to be a generalist, 

408
00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:21,520
but it seems like being able to 
weave together a bunch of these 

409
00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:24,520
things is probably how you put 
together the pieces of endola, 

410
00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:28,240
is it not? 
I have a little too much ADHD to

411
00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:30,000
be anything other than a 
generalist. 

412
00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:34,120
Not a lot of generalists with 
PhDs in this way, certainly not 

413
00:20:34,120 --> 00:20:37,400
stem PhDs. 
Well, science is so cool though.

414
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,000
We got to talk about 
astrobiology. 

415
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,160
Like, I don't remember what 
we're supposed to be talking 

416
00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:44,280
about, but I'm pretty sure it's 
the origin of life and and all 

417
00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:46,160
of those things. 
That's why we're here. 

418
00:20:47,120 --> 00:20:48,600
I guess so. 
Why end of it though? 

419
00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:50,200
It sounds like you could have 
gone a lot of different 

420
00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:51,440
directions. 
A lot of things probably could 

421
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:53,240
have captured your attention. 
Why did this seem like the most 

422
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:55,280
fun, the most important? 
Probably both. 

423
00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:59,720
Why? 
This Once Upon a time I was 

424
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:03,400
sitting in a pub in Scotland, it
was raining outside. 

425
00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,400
I had a podcast I was doing 
about the energy transition and 

426
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,640
we recently recorded one about 
copper and I was sitting with 

427
00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:11,600
some brilliant research 
analysts. 

428
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,960
About what what's going to fuel 
the zombie apocalypse. 

429
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,680
And that was really a proxy for 
what is going to trigger these 

430
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,880
big challenges in the planet. 
And I kept thinking it was going

431
00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,520
to be the lack of potable water,
like the lack of fresh water. 

432
00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:26,120
I know how many gallons of water
are going to making my my the 

433
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:29,480
chips on my phone. 
And one of them was like, no, is

434
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:31,160
it's going to be copper. 
And it's like, what are you 

435
00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:33,000
talking about? 
We'll just recycle pennies and 

436
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,120
they're like, First off, pennies
have no copper. 

437
00:21:35,360 --> 00:21:40,200
Secondly, you don't know about 
recycling, but we're talking at 

438
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,280
each other through conductive 
copper wires. 

439
00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:45,000
My electric car takes 5 to 12 
times more copper. 

440
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,080
Copper is the backbone of 
literally everything in the 

441
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:50,800
energy transition. 
It's very easy to think through 

442
00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:54,280
Rarer's elements being the 
critical limiter or things like 

443
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:56,880
nickel or lithium, but those 
have much more volatility. 

444
00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,280
There's a lot of other ways we 
could potentially get to those. 

445
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:01,920
But copper, that's the rising 
tide that lifts all ships. 

446
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,760
And humans have been using 
copper since the Bronze Age. 

447
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,440
Bronze is mostly copper. 
It has been part and parcel to 

448
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,600
human development and evolution,
pun intended, back to our 

449
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:14,080
evolution earlier for for 
thousands and thousands of 

450
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:15,680
years. 
And because of that, all the 

451
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,800
good copper's gone. 
And so at this pub, we were 

452
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:22,880
talking about how right now 
mining companies take rock. 

453
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:24,840
They crush it, they spray 
sulfuric acid on it. 

454
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:26,280
They only get about half the 
copper. 

455
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:30,760
And I was like, oh, why don't 
they just take microbes like to 

456
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:32,280
engineer them to get more copper
out. 

457
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:33,680
Bing Bing, boom, Bob's your 
uncle. 

458
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,400
We're off to the races. 
And someone looked at me and was

459
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:38,720
like, I don't know, where is 
maybe drinking here with us 

460
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:44,840
instead of actually doing that. 
And I was like, spoiler alerts, 

461
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:49,440
incredibly difficult. 
But that was one of the nights 

462
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:53,240
that I just didn't sleep at all 
when I was like, well, this is 

463
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:56,600
an inflection point in my life. 
I'm not getting any younger and 

464
00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:58,840
I'm child free by choice. 
So like, what is the impact I 

465
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,200
want to have on the planet? 
What is my calling? 

466
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,000
What is my meaning? 
And turns out it has to do with 

467
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:08,760
bugs and copper. 
Is there a synthetic biology 

468
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:12,160
component to this? 
Synthetic biology component to 

469
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:13,600
everything. 
Oh wow, people. 

470
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:15,040
Don't want to know that by the 
way. 

471
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,840
I see that half jokingly. 
We are not using engineered 

472
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,160
microbes like the CRISPR CAS 9. 
We're not using tweezers to go 

473
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,280
in there and augment the DNA. 
We've tried it. 

474
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:27,440
We've thought about it. 
It for our techniques, is not 

475
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,920
the best. 
I have two wonderful dogs here. 

476
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,840
Here, let me show you. 
I have flux and delta, both 

477
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,040
chaotic agents of change down 
here. 

478
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:41,920
They're hypoallergenic, bougie 
ass labradoodles. 

479
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:46,560
I love both of them very much. 
If we were at a zombie 

480
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,960
apocalypse though, the these 
guys would be the first ones 

481
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:51,560
out. 
They'd run up to his army, roll 

482
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:53,320
over. 
They want tummy rubs. 

483
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:55,360
The worst thing that ever 
happened to Flux is that his 

484
00:23:55,360 --> 00:23:57,080
dinner was 20 minutes late one 
day. 

485
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:01,080
Growing up in Alaska, the dogs 
that we had were these brown 

486
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,280
mutts from the pound that would 
thrive in any conditions. 

487
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,200
They were so great and they were
the best dogs I ever had. 

488
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,040
That is how I think about these 
types of microbial communities. 

489
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:16,040
Engineered microbes are my 
wonderful Labradoodle, Cocker 

490
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,880
spaniel, Bernadoodle mixes that 
are specifically designed for 

491
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,400
very specific conditions, like 
living in a townhouse in 

492
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:26,120
downtown Denver. 
So microbes that we want are not

493
00:24:26,120 --> 00:24:28,720
domesticated, they are ones that
can thrive. 

494
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:30,880
They have cell to cell signaling
pathways. 

495
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,440
And so we use this tool called 
adaptive laboratory evolution, 

496
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:37,920
where we take communities that 
know how to work in a team and 

497
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,560
we just give them different 
stimuli so that they can thrive 

498
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,560
even more. 
For instance, we'll make the 

499
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:45,680
sulfuric acid they're growing 
in, we'll make it a little bit 

500
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,720
saltier, or we'll expose them to
more and more arsenic so that 

501
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:52,160
eventually they can thrive in 
high arsenic ores. 

502
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,120
OK, I'm sure that calm the 
nerves of some people who are 

503
00:24:57,120 --> 00:24:58,320
thinking about it. 
Oh, sorry, were you going to say

504
00:24:58,320 --> 00:24:59,680
the thing I didn't? 
Mean to oh like it's it's an 

505
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,720
evolutionary biology technique 
but it's not synthetic biology. 

506
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,960
It also is a lot more effective.
There are some cool start-ups 

507
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,000
out there that are working with 
synthetic biology. 

508
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,640
I tend to find though that 
nostal organisms tend to be the 

509
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:13,880
best. 
Those brown mutts going back to 

510
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:19,600
my dog analogy. 
In waste rock and and waste ore 

511
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,120
from copper, are these microbes 
already present? 

512
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:23,760
Are you just enhancing them in 
some way? 

513
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,800
So there are a lot of bugs that 
are already pleasant, and we've 

514
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:28,800
been fortunate to work with 
mining customers to just do 

515
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:31,680
depth studies of what bugs are 
there. 

516
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,160
The right bugs typically are not
there. 

517
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:38,200
There's massive dysbiosis. 
Think of it like if you were on 

518
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,840
a course of antibiotics and your
gut microbiome is just 

519
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,320
completely messed up. 
That's what these heaps look 

520
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:45,720
like after they've been subject 
to lots and lots of sulfuric 

521
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:47,880
acid. 
So we come in with the right 

522
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,080
bugs at the right time, and we 
use cloud computing to make sure

523
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,800
that we can optimize and change 
these microbes over time. 

524
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,480
It's not one bug, it's not one 
chemical. 

525
00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:00,480
It's a continuous system that is
governed by the same types of 

526
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,720
cloud architecture practices I 
learned when I was at Amazon for

527
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:07,600
a few years. 
Are these tailings and waste 

528
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:08,960
rock? 
Are they just a waste product 

529
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:10,880
for these mining companies? 
Is there any value at all? 

530
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,640
So what's interesting is that 
when you go into these massive 

531
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,880
heaps, so just to take a step 
back, do you crush massive 

532
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:22,000
amounts of rocks and you pile 
them the size of larger than my 

533
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,960
house? 
Think of like Empower Stadium. 

534
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:27,520
I'm going to use another Denver 
analogy, but think about any 

535
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:31,000
large sports ball arena. 
These are massive, massive heap 

536
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,600
bleaches where they use 
irrigation systems to put 

537
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,480
sulfuric acid on them. 
Now the way it works now is 

538
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:40,600
these live for upwards of 1020 
years and only between 20 and 

539
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:44,400
60% of the copper comes out. 
By putting microbes in with the 

540
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,960
sulfuric acid and doing that 
original production, we're able 

541
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:50,560
to get significantly, 
significantly more copper out. 

542
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,400
Are these microbes that do they 
qualify as extremophiles being 

543
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:55,840
in? 
Sulfuric. 

544
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,880
Yeah, They're in sulfuric acid. 
They're elevated temperatures. 

545
00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:01,760
Sometimes they're in elevated 
pressures. 

546
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:03,800
All the cool bugs are 
extremophiles. 

547
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:05,880
Can you not just get rid of the 
sulfuric acid? 

548
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:07,720
Is it necessary for even this 
process? 

549
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,240
Well, so the sulfuric acid is 
what mining companies already 

550
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:13,560
use. 
And our North Star, my North 

551
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:15,880
Star is a human. 
We've talked about this, is to 

552
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,800
fundamentally get more of these 
critical minerals like copper 

553
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,040
into the estate. 
The best way to do that with 

554
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,120
mining companies is to be plug 
and play with what they're 

555
00:27:23,120 --> 00:27:25,520
already doing. 
There's some great start-ups out

556
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,480
there that want to completely 
reinvent the value chain, but 

557
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:30,920
mining companies are 
historically slow moving. 

558
00:27:31,120 --> 00:27:33,640
They're super cautious and so we
need to go in there and say, 

559
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,480
hey, we got you, Boo. 
Let's do this. 

560
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:40,160
Like, let's pair where you are 
and make it as easy as possible 

561
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,120
so that your entire workflow 
stays the same. 

562
00:27:42,120 --> 00:27:44,960
We just pump in our bugs, which 
we've shown are safe. 

563
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,000
If you were to put a handful of 
them outside on my patio, they 

564
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,440
would die very quickly. 
They're not optimized for these 

565
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:54,120
conditions. 
I see a lot of start-ups fall on

566
00:27:54,120 --> 00:27:56,680
those rocks pretty hard 
actually, of trying to reinvent 

567
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,480
the entire value chain. 
And yeah, customers that are 

568
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,040
slow plugging and playing in 
that kind of way. 

569
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,120
That seems like the way to go. 
And it seems like the go to 

570
00:28:04,120 --> 00:28:06,120
market has served you well 
sounds like. 

571
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:10,040
We've been really fortunate to 
have some incredible customers. 

572
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,480
We are publicly working with 
BHP, with Rio Tinto. 

573
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,440
We're working with six of the 
other largest copper customers. 

574
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,600
We have line of sight of at 
least one field deployment in 

575
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,760
the next few months. 
We'll be starting in the US and 

576
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:23,840
that really is a great 
culmination. 

577
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,120
There's a lot of tailwinds in 
terms of the critical minerals 

578
00:28:26,120 --> 00:28:30,280
industry and we've been able to 
work with our customers to 

579
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:35,320
really leverage those those the 
need for additional critical 

580
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:39,800
minerals in a more clean way. 
What's it like working with an 

581
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,960
industry that has not the nicest
reputation? 

582
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,960
Well, I started this my career 
in oil and gas, so. 

583
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,920
Down somehow, somehow, you found
one that was even even more 

584
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:54,520
beloved. 
Which is actually, it's, it's an

585
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:58,560
interesting cultural paradigm 
shift because living in Denver, 

586
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,120
I'm definitely in a different 
world than I've been anywhere 

587
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,760
else. 
And initially when I moved here 

588
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:06,960
a few years back, and I would 
tell, trying to make those 

589
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:08,600
friends that I talked about, I 
was like, yeah, I work in 

590
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,680
mining. 
They'd be like, oh, mining, why?

591
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:13,680
What's wrong with you? 
And I was like, oh, but I used 

592
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:15,920
to work in oil and gas and 
they're like, oh, why would you 

593
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:20,960
make such a bad light decision? 
And I'm like, oh, you guys just 

594
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:22,920
don't get it. 
Like it is not a value 

595
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,480
judgement. 
It is an educational opportunity

596
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:29,440
because First off, oil and gas 
we are using, we're using 

597
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:31,640
petrochemicals and so many 
pharmaceuticals and so many 

598
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,200
plastics and so many things. 
Like when I'm climbing mountains

599
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:35,920
with my friends, I'm wearing 
vortex. 

600
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:38,320
I am using hydrocarbons through 
and through. 

601
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,720
But secondly, when we think 
through the metals and mining 

602
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:46,160
industry, there is so much power
that comes from meeting 

603
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,040
customers where they are. 
For instance, these large mining

604
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:54,280
customers, they have really 
amazing internal policies around

605
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,520
things like child slavery, which
I love that I say that half with

606
00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,920
a smile on my face. 
But we spend a lot of time as a 

607
00:29:59,920 --> 00:30:02,720
startup figuring out how we can 
be the change we want. 

608
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:07,920
And as an American that likes to
sometimes Amazon Prime stuff, 

609
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:12,040
and I use a lot of technology, 
here's my remarkable that has a 

610
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,320
fair amount of copper and 
critical minerals in there. 

611
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:19,920
It is not fair to abdicate the 
production of those two 

612
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:23,480
developing nations or countries 
that we don't have oversight on.

613
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,200
For instance, if all of our 
mining was to take place in 

614
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:30,560
sub-Saharan Africa and it wasn't
light of sight, it wasn't in my 

615
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,560
mind. 
That I don't actually think is a

616
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,600
great outcome. 
Part of the reason I'm so keen 

617
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:40,800
on domestic critical minerals 
production is because I liked 

618
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,840
having grown up in Alaska, 
knowing that we can go and see 

619
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:46,880
the mines. 
I like being in Colorado and 

620
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:48,840
knowing that we can go and see 
the mines. 

621
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:52,000
It is not an eyesore. 
It is part of responsible 

622
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,560
consumption. 
We have regulations in the US, 

623
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:58,120
we have OSHA, we have lots of 
things like child slavery laws 

624
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:02,840
and making sure that our 
consumption is tied to how these

625
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,800
critical minerals are being 
extracted in a way where we can 

626
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:07,880
have control over it. 
I think it's absolutely 

627
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,000
critical. 
As soon as you advocate that and

628
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,360
say, you know, not my circus, 
not my monkeys, not my backyard,

629
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:17,320
that's where people that don't 
have power can have very bad 

630
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:22,120
impacts to their life. 
I mean, what you're saying is 

631
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:24,960
broadly in line with what I 
understand about harm reduction 

632
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,760
philosophy, But there are some 
cases where you don't want to be

633
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,000
harm reducing, you actually want
abstinence, you want to go cold 

634
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:31,680
Turkey. 
Are there any places like that 

635
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,000
where you think your line of 
reasoning might lead us to some 

636
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:35,840
bad places for your ultimate 
goals? 

637
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,040
I think that we should be doing 
more for recycling. 

638
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,720
Recycling is a huge opportunity 
and that is not one that our 

639
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:46,080
domestic supply chain and even 
the production lines that we 

640
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:50,000
have are not set up to. 
When you order a USB cord, it is

641
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,320
covered in plastic. 
It's not easy to recycle any of 

642
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:53,480
the critical minerals out of 
that. 

643
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:55,440
I think that we could do a lot 
more in that space. 

644
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,240
And I think some laptop brands, 
for instance, have tried to make

645
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,400
parts that are replaceable. 
But we just have so much planned

646
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,600
obsolection space in everything 
we do to grow our GDP. 

647
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:09,320
So that is 1 saying where I 
think policy and other people 

648
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,960
above my pay grade could help, 
and also looking at how you can 

649
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:15,720
reduce your own individual 
consumption is always really, 

650
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:19,280
really important. 
So I've read a lot of horror 

651
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,120
stories, especially about 
artisanal cobalt mining in the 

652
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,680
Congo, and that that sounds 
truly hell on earth and awful 

653
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,480
and children being in tunnels 
that are collapsing. 

654
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,400
It's horrifying. 
What would happen though if they

655
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:32,760
just didn't have a cobalt 
industry. 

656
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,280
Would they on net be better off?
Like would it not be better to 

657
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:37,760
buy from them but have much 
better standards that are 

658
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:39,480
somehow enforced by the 
purchasers of this? 

659
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,280
Maybe that's just impossible and
that's a pipe dream, but if it's

660
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,480
just going to wealthier 
Americans for mining, they might

661
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:46,920
on net be worse off at their 
safety. 

662
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:48,720
We're covered under an 
alternative regime. 

663
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:54,360
How do you make sense of that? 
Yeah, I like honestly, it comes 

664
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,560
down to a lot of yes, in my 
backyard, yes, innovations, the 

665
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:00,000
more that we can control our own
supply chain. 

666
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,880
And this, this is a position 
where I find myself 

667
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,640
existentially aligned with 
people that I'm not necessarily 

668
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:07,200
politically aligned with in 
other ways. 

669
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,360
Because the more that we can 
drive our own destiny here, the 

670
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,400
more that we can have say over 
things like who is working in 

671
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,960
the mines, which sounds like a 
meme from somewhere, who is 

672
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,520
working in the mines. 
But there are atrocities. 

673
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,240
And the worst thing that happens
in mining, like the worst thing 

674
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:26,000
that happens if you're any B2B 
SAS startup is like maybe your 

675
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,160
cloud compute goes down. 
The worst thing that can happen 

676
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:32,360
in a mining custom like a 
fighting company is people die. 

677
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:36,120
We have a safety first culture 
because it's a real risk when 

678
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,960
you are out there dealing with 
these very large, large mine 

679
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:43,320
sites. 
By focusing on new technologies 

680
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:46,160
like Endolith, like some other 
ones, there's a slew of startups

681
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,880
that are happening and bringing 
those from the idea stage to the

682
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:52,480
actual commercialization stage. 
That enables us to get net 

683
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,400
access to more resources in 
places like the US where we can 

684
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:57,680
actually drive it. 
It's a tough Rd. though. 

685
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,560
Being ACEO of a mining start up 
is incredibly, incredibly 

686
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,880
daunting and challenging, 
especially since customers are 

687
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:08,199
typically not used to change. 
But going back to the comment 

688
00:34:08,199 --> 00:34:10,880
you made earlier, starting my 
career as an oil and gas 

689
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:16,159
geologist in Houston and growing
up in Alaska, I had to live in a

690
00:34:16,159 --> 00:34:18,840
place that didn't necessarily 
reflect my values. 

691
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:22,120
I had to show up with a reusable
water bottle and reusable coffee

692
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:24,560
cup and drive my electric car to
the office. 

693
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:26,040
Actually, I walked to the 
office. 

694
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,280
And that was such an outlier. 
And so I think there is 

695
00:34:29,679 --> 00:34:32,800
something to be said for 
figuring out where you can act 

696
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:34,920
locally. 
Like what is the boundary of 

697
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,280
things you can do regardless of 
anything else? 

698
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:39,320
How can you reduce your own 
consumption? 

699
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,159
Do you need that extra USB 
cable? 

700
00:34:41,159 --> 00:34:43,800
Do you need that new cell phone 
every six months or every two 

701
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,360
years? 
There are still small micro 

702
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,320
rebellious activities that we as
American citizens with a 

703
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,320
disproportionate use of these 
critical minerals can do that 

704
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:55,159
aren't always part of the 
conversation. 

705
00:34:55,159 --> 00:35:01,600
But every little bit does help. 
If we got better at extracting 

706
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:06,400
copper out of ore, would it 
solve the problem? 

707
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,520
Or would we just Kuznets curve 
ourself into using so much more 

708
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:11,800
copper and just kind of kick it 
down the road? 

709
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,920
Are we going to be satisfied 
with the amount of copper or do 

710
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:16,360
we just need so much that it 
doesn't even matter? 

711
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:18,960
We just need an enormous 
quantity, which is like Ernest 

712
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:23,520
Scheider's book and the War 
Below really seen a lot of how 

713
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,240
much copper we're going to need 
and some of those YIMBY, NIMBY 

714
00:35:26,240 --> 00:35:29,360
fights that are happening over. 
Maybe we just need so much that 

715
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:31,440
it doesn't matter if it Kuznets 
curves, we just need it. 

716
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,400
The answer is probably both. 
I mean between now and 2050 you 

717
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:37,440
need more than any history of 
human civilization. 

718
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:41,600
Some like chip manufacturers are
looking at ways that they can 

719
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,040
reduce their demand on copper 
some places. 

720
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:47,400
But the reality is it is the 
best non precious conductor. 

721
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:51,680
So anytime you are channelling 
electrons like the power or like

722
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:56,400
through I guess we're probably 
doing bits through my Internet 

723
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,640
which is fiber optic. 
I don't think it has any copper,

724
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:03,760
but any time you relay that 
there's always going to be a 

725
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,280
need for copper, even if we can 
invent our way around it. 

726
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:11,120
However, it's it's humans. 
We have been evolved to very 

727
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:13,920
think to think in front of us. 
We are used to like is a 

728
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:15,960
predator running at me, Am I 
stressed? 

729
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:17,440
Am I going to make it to see 
tomorrow? 

730
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,680
We are not the best at long term
strategic planning beyond what 

731
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:24,160
we can immediately see. 
So balancing those two is 

732
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,480
something that is probably more 
for the philosophers. 

733
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:31,360
Oh, you're on. 
Right, Sir, you know where you 

734
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,120
are right now. 
But yeah, that that's the kind 

735
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:36,360
of thing that we often. 
Within during the podcast and we

736
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:38,800
started talking about 
astrobiology and like space 

737
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:40,200
impact like. 
Like at all. 

738
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:41,440
It's all cool. 
There's nothing. 

739
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:43,480
There's basically nothing I 
don't think is cool so. 

740
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:45,520
Yeah. 
And like the reality there is we

741
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:50,200
can't just keep using technology
as a Deus Ex machina to say that

742
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,280
we are somehow going to be OK. 
We need to start with our 

743
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:54,880
consumption patterns. 
We need to start at what we 

744
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,640
ultimately need. 
Those are very unpopular things 

745
00:36:57,640 --> 00:36:59,760
to talk about though, because no
one likes to hear that. 

746
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,280
Well, I was asking about harm 
reduction because a lot of it 

747
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:06,520
sounds like you want to enable 
better use of existing supply 

748
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,520
chains so that we can either 
keep our current consumption or 

749
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:11,760
even grow it in the future when 
we need a lot more copper. 

750
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:13,760
But it seems like maybe your 
heart is split on that, and 

751
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:16,120
maybe you actually wish that we 
could look inside, like, why are

752
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:17,640
we doing that to ourselves in 
the planet? 

753
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,240
I mean, the reality is we need 
so much more copper and the 

754
00:37:20,240 --> 00:37:23,160
current way that we get it, half
of the copper is just waste. 

755
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:24,800
It immediately gets sent to the 
ground. 

756
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:27,560
That's like ordering takeout and
throwing away half of it. 

757
00:37:27,720 --> 00:37:30,680
Like there is immediately a way 
that we can solve that problem. 

758
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,560
And so that is to me a low 
hanging fruit that the microbes 

759
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:36,120
can easily help us get more 
copper on. 

760
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,320
And for me going back to my 
sphere and things we can 

761
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,760
influence, if we can do that 
domestically here in the US, 

762
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:47,000
places where we can see the 
safety, we can see that we are 

763
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,600
able to comply with things like 
OSHA, that's a no brainer win 

764
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,440
win. 
Are there parts of those 

765
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:56,400
extractive industries that are 
resource oriented that maybe 

766
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:58,560
make you feel a little bit icky?
Are there things that you see 

767
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,480
where you're like, I have to do 
business with people that maybe 

768
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:03,720
I don't always see eye to eye 
with and maybe that that's a 

769
00:38:03,720 --> 00:38:05,320
very light way of putting it. 
Maybe you think what they're 

770
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,200
doing is ultimately, you know, 
putting shareholder value above 

771
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:10,440
people or the planet or 
something else. 

772
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,040
What do you do with? 
Those and then the option is, do

773
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:16,120
they not? 
I wanted to make a joke about 

774
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,960
from a young age, all I ever 
wanted to be was someone that 

775
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:20,800
could maximize shareholder 
value. 

776
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:28,120
That's what I've always want. 
But the reality is I am a 

777
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:31,400
founder and CEO of the coolest 
company I've ever been part of. 

778
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:36,320
We have some incredible board 
members and we don't have to 

779
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:38,680
work with customers that we 
don't want to. 

780
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,880
And this is the first time in my
life that we've been able to do 

781
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:46,560
things like our team is 60 or 
70% female, non binary. 

782
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,000
I have purple hair. 
We don't look and talk like 

783
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:54,920
people that aren't like us. 
And so we are able to align with

784
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:58,960
our values and our code of 
conduct in a way that I've never

785
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,000
had the freedom to do that at 
any other job I've ever had. 

786
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:05,640
And that comes from the top, 
too. 

787
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:08,440
You work at a company where the 
CEO just wants to get the deal 

788
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:09,960
done. 
The deal's probably going to get

789
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:12,720
done. 
Say what you want in the 

790
00:39:12,720 --> 00:39:15,520
meeting, in the all hands, the 
meeting's still going to feels. 

791
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:17,840
Going to get done and we have, 
we have an incredible team. 

792
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:21,440
We're 15 people now. 
We recently brought on board CFO

793
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,640
slash slash Chief Commercial 
Officer Andrew, who's based in 

794
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:27,280
Brisbane. 
Christie, who leads technology, 

795
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:29,640
has been in mining for her 
entire career. 

796
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:32,800
We're in the office culture, 
even though I'm calling in from 

797
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:35,440
home today, but like we are 
white boarding out ideas. 

798
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:38,280
We are very blunt. 
I always tell people our core 

799
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:42,240
values, our safety, critical 
feedback and snacks, but that 

800
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:44,360
critical feedback goes both 
ways. 

801
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:47,280
There are times where I have 
thought something is the best 

802
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:51,360
idea and Christy has sat me down
and said, hey, boss man, 

803
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:55,120
absolutely not. 
That's what she calls me is boss

804
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:58,240
man or Andrew is much more 
diplomatic and is like, let's 

805
00:39:58,240 --> 00:40:00,720
think about the holistic 
ramifications of this. 

806
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:06,160
And I think especially at small 
companies where you you are more

807
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:08,760
nimble and able to do those 
having that no. 

808
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,320
Approach is absolutely key 
because we don't ever. 

809
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:15,840
The worst thing that could 
happen is someone gets hurt on 

810
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:18,240
the job and we don't want to 
paint ourselves in a position. 

811
00:40:18,240 --> 00:40:20,800
We're working with companies 
that make us feel icky because 

812
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:24,240
we don't have to. 
Have you said no to 

813
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,360
opportunities like that so far 
We. 

814
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:29,800
Say no to a lot more 
opportunities than we say yes to

815
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:33,200
just in general. 
When I was at Amazon, one of my 

816
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:36,960
one of my mentors told me that 
your career at Amazon is covered

817
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:39,520
not by things you say yes to, 
but by things you say no to 

818
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:41,560
because there's always so many 
opportunities. 

819
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:45,680
And we have incredible, 
incredible investors around the 

820
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:47,440
table. 
We are just working and closing 

821
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,240
out our Series A and I've told 
every investor I've met with 

822
00:40:50,240 --> 00:40:54,440
that like right now we get a lot
of good critical feedback and we

823
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:57,640
have no massive around the 
table, which means we can 

824
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:00,480
continue to have these 
conversations and weigh what our

825
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:03,480
North Stars are, what our One 
North Stars is a company with 

826
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:06,360
how we're able to innovate our 
technology and we've we're going

827
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:07,880
to be able to do that 
continuously. 

828
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:13,160
I imagine you're probably pretty
well positioned for acquisition 

829
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:15,160
or to remain independent. 
I don't know if you do license 

830
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:17,440
or do you actually operate your 
technology to? 

831
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:19,920
Operate that. 
That they go long term too. 

832
00:41:20,240 --> 00:41:22,080
Yeah. 
Cool. 

833
00:41:22,240 --> 00:41:26,920
What's next? 
Well, after the round it closes.

834
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:31,000
I I'm so excited to be done 
fundraising and go right back 

835
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:33,000
into execution mode. 
I'm actually hopping on a plane 

836
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:36,200
to Australia in a few hours and 
then I'm going to present at a 

837
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:38,920
conference and then we are heads
down getting to the field. 

838
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:41,640
Yeah. 
You get 18 months off and then 

839
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:42,840
you're back to fundraising 
again. 

840
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:45,840
So like, enjoy it. 
I know I love that you say 18 

841
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:49,440
months is if our series B does 
not start like the week after I.

842
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:52,560
Was being I was being generous. 
Probably, maybe, maybe you get a

843
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:53,920
year. 
It's like being a politician. 

844
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:56,280
You know you're back on the road
here real soon after you get 

845
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:59,720
elected. 
Which fundraising is is the 

846
00:41:59,720 --> 00:42:02,320
worst? 
But in many ways it's also 

847
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:04,080
living in Denver. 
We love our Type 2 fund. 

848
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:05,800
We love things that aren't fun 
when they't doing it, but are 

849
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:09,800
fun after the fact. 
And so there is nothing again to

850
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:12,000
that point about living your 
values like pressure testing 

851
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,920
your commercial models, your 
business models by investors who

852
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:17,080
mining typically moves like 
this. 

853
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:19,880
And VC is typically designed to 
move like this. 

854
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:23,800
And so squaring that circle in a
way that aligns with what you 

855
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:26,040
want to build is a really cool 
challenge. 

856
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:28,960
And even on the worst days, 
there's no job I'd rather have. 

857
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:32,520
This is this is the job I've 
been working my entire life for.

858
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:37,640
The first thing I did when we 
kicked out for Series A, aside 

859
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:40,720
from like obsessing over our 
pitch deck and stuff, was I made

860
00:42:40,720 --> 00:42:44,400
a Spotify playlist. 
I made our road to Series A 

861
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:47,200
playlist. 
And I will unabashedly say my 

862
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:50,440
shots from Hamilton is on there 
because it really does feel like

863
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:52,800
this is this is our shot. 
This is our chance to do it. 

864
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:59,480
In terms of what's the future of
the company looks like, I have 

865
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:02,840
no idea. 
I have a fiduciary obligation to

866
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:05,320
do to deliver shareholder value 
like we've talked about and do 

867
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:08,440
what's best for the company. 
But it's really fun to grow. 

868
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:11,240
It's really fun to build. 
We ultimately just want to get 

869
00:43:11,240 --> 00:43:14,160
more of these critical minerals 
minerals out using these 

870
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:15,960
microbes or Earth's oldest 
miners. 

871
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:19,520
What? 
What did you say something or 

872
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:20,440
was that your dog? 
What was? 

873
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:24,560
No, those are my two dogs who 
have decided to play right now. 

874
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:25,920
See. 
Say hi guys. 

875
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:28,240
Oh, that's Oh, yeah, that's very
cute. 

876
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:34,600
OK, I got to ask you to how 
does, how does endolith play 

877
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:39,880
with the geopolitics of the 
current moment, with reshoring, 

878
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:42,760
with critical minerals? 
How do you fit into that? 

879
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:51,240
That's good for you, I imagine. 
I mean, when there were first 

880
00:43:51,240 --> 00:43:53,960
announcements coming out and you
can check the newspaper every 

881
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:57,440
day and see new big 
announcements, the first quote 

882
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:01,320
that immediately came to mind 
was like, this is our shot. 

883
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:02,400
This is our chance to drive 
this. 

884
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:04,720
But also like, why let a good 
crisis go to waste? 

885
00:44:04,720 --> 00:44:07,720
Like this is our, this is our 
time to really have a seat at 

886
00:44:07,720 --> 00:44:10,480
the table. 
One thing that's been really 

887
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:13,480
monumental for us is we are part
of this Alaska critical minerals

888
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:16,440
accelerator. 
So my first geology professor, 

889
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:20,160
Doctor Leanne Monk, I had her as
a professor over 20 years ago. 

890
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:23,400
And now we are Co P is together 
on a grant. 

891
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:26,560
We were just named an NSS engine
finalist. 

892
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:30,520
It's a massive 100 + 1,000,000 
dollar grant with Nano Native 

893
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:32,920
Corporation, a lot of the 
stakeholders up in Alaska to 

894
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,280
bring our technology to some of 
these rural environments. 

895
00:44:35,720 --> 00:44:38,480
And that is something that I've 
been dreaming of doing since I 

896
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:42,280
was a kid, is helping these 
rural places get access to 

897
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:45,200
technology and mining to make 
their workflows more seamless, 

898
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:48,560
more environmentally efficient. 
And that wouldn't been possible 

899
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:49,840
without the current 
administration. 

900
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:53,680
So that is an unexpected upside.
Also the investors we have 

901
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:57,240
around the table, Overture who 
came in and Co LED our seed 

902
00:44:57,240 --> 00:44:59,760
round is very connected to the 
administration. 

903
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:04,160
And then Squadra, who is leading
our Series A round is, has done 

904
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:08,520
so many amazing things in terms 
of helping us to unlock how we 

905
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:11,800
can leverage current policies to
get to our field deployments in 

906
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:15,960
the US Wow, that's. 
Even the right way to put this, 

907
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:20,280
Liz, sounds like you have to 
live in multiple worlds here. 

908
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:23,680
It's a human. 
It's a. 

909
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:25,760
Human We all live in multiple 
worlds. 

910
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:29,880
Even if I don't know to what 
degree you're supportive of the 

911
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:32,680
administration or not, but even 
if you have to play along to do 

912
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:34,880
business, it seems like maybe 
you're even able to do that 

913
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:41,280
pretty well. 
I I once an investor tell me on 

914
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:45,720
our first or second call that he
wasn't sure I look like someone 

915
00:45:45,720 --> 00:45:49,560
who could be the face of a 
billion dollar company because 

916
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:54,480
he did not see me playing nicely
with certain politicians. 

917
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:58,480
If I discriminate against your 
hair, I feel like like blue hair

918
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:01,680
is a joke among conservatives. 
I think it's it's different, 

919
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:07,080
it's more pastel now, but I have
had a lot of very religion's 

920
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:11,560
comments asking for my thoughts 
about those things, so it's 

921
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:13,680
always funny to hear the 
different perspectives. 

922
00:46:15,720 --> 00:46:19,280
Well, what you just gave me was 
such a diplomatic answer and the

923
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:21,760
composition of the company too. 
It sounds like the company is 

924
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:24,240
intentionally progressive, at 
least internally, working in an 

925
00:46:24,240 --> 00:46:26,360
extractive industry. 
That is someone that I expect 

926
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:29,800
most people shop at either like 
Brooks Brothers for like the 

927
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:33,480
accountant types and then more 
of like Carhartt for for the 

928
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:35,400
non. 
It's like it's, it's right 

929
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:37,160
coded. 
You work in a right coded field.

930
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:40,600
You're left coded. 
But yet Gangels is coming into 

931
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:44,520
this round and they are an 
incredible syndicate that is 

932
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:47,640
based in bringing a lot of 
diversity into early stage 

933
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:51,720
start-ups, which in many ways to
me like this, this amalgamation 

934
00:46:51,720 --> 00:46:54,160
of America, this is how it 
should be. 

935
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:57,560
The best technology, solving the
best problems in a way that 

936
00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:02,440
absolutely makes sense. 
Like the the domestication and 

937
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:06,320
reshoring for me is really about
having safe access and have 

938
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:09,280
making sure that we are able to 
move away from child slavery. 

939
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:12,240
It's such an interesting 
dichotomy. 

940
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:17,640
Culturally, Endolith might be 
some Jackie Robinson for mining 

941
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:19,240
kind of kind of play here. 
Are you? 

942
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:21,880
Are you expecting to? 
I'm trying to look at the 

943
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:24,080
stickers I just put on the back 
of my remarkable. 

944
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:27,280
I think we're just like this 
Unicorn riding this triceratops.

945
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:31,440
Yeah, Yeah, I imagine there 
might be some cultural bumps. 

946
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:34,640
You seem, you seem pretty good 
at negotiating that I could. 

947
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:37,960
I could see you pulling it off 
and being charming and exuberant

948
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:42,000
in the exact way that you are 
being to certain to certain 

949
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:43,400
people. 
But I'm serious. 

950
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:45,920
Like, a lot worse. 
Did you, do you feel like you 

951
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:48,800
maybe lose opportunities because
of some of those attributes that

952
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:51,360
either politically or 
aesthetically, maybe turn off 

953
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:53,520
some of the more conservative 
members of your industry? 

954
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:59,320
I honestly don't know. 
And I whenever I start to think 

955
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:02,240
about that and start to think 
about, oh, should I dye my hair 

956
00:48:02,240 --> 00:48:04,760
a different color, should I do 
this? 

957
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:08,920
I just kind of set it down and 
I'm like, I'm going to continue 

958
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:12,120
to focus on our North Star and 
what we want to do and hire the 

959
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:15,560
absolute best team around me. 
Our team are mining engineers 

960
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:18,840
through and through and with 
that critical feedback culture, 

961
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:21,320
I mean, there have been times 
they're like, hey, we got this 

962
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:23,200
meeting, like we're going to the
field. 

963
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:25,360
They have their M shot training.
I don't know my M shot training.

964
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:28,080
They are able to operate safely.
They run the point on our 

965
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:31,360
customer conversations. 
So it really is just keeping the

966
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:34,320
dialogue and keeping it open to 
figure out how we can optimize. 

967
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:39,080
I think that's potentially one 
of the coolest things about 

968
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:42,280
Endolith because I don't know 
that many people who are going 

969
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:47,200
into an industry that maybe 
feels as distinctly something 

970
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:50,240
else. 
And then seems like you're, you 

971
00:48:50,240 --> 00:48:52,400
have enough capacity. 
It seems like, I mean, granted, 

972
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:54,040
we're both on stage right now, 
but you seem like you have 

973
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:57,440
enough capacity to have a big 
enough heart here to maybe try 

974
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:00,320
to like slowly change some of 
those attitudes or maybe make 

975
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:03,040
some space for yourself and your
and your colleagues. 

976
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:04,840
And maybe I'm being unfair to 
the mining industry. 

977
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:06,680
Maybe actually there's like a 
lot of progressive elements in 

978
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:07,680
that. 
I just don't know, this is a 

979
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:10,400
reputation and maybe I'm being 
unfair to them but. 

980
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:14,280
I will say I am on a panel at 
Imark. 

981
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:16,200
It's this big international 
mining conference I'm going to 

982
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:17,840
Australia for. 
I'm on this panel. 

983
00:49:18,240 --> 00:49:20,720
I am there with BHP and Rio 
Tinto and Eremet. 

984
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:23,440
And it's actually an all female 
panel. 

985
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:26,200
And I didn't even realize that 
until someone in LinkedIn 

986
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:29,480
commented all female channel go 
rock stars. 

987
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:33,800
And I was like, is it? 
I guess it is, which is actually

988
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:36,680
interesting because less than 
15% of the mining workforce is 

989
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:40,080
female. 
Are one side one side okay? 

990
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:41,880
Gosh, okay, that makes more 
sense. 

991
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:44,760
Yeah, our companies more than 
50%. 

992
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:48,920
But at the same time, like if 
you are going to sacrifice 

993
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:52,320
everything in your life to be a 
startup founder and CEO, you 

994
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:56,080
kind of got to take it to the to
like your internalized, 

995
00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:59,720
internalized values, which is 
surrounding myself with the 

996
00:49:59,720 --> 00:50:03,000
coolest people having a culture 
where we laugh. 

997
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:06,440
We are going to celebrate 
closing our Series A round by 

998
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:10,960
ordering Domino's and watching K
pop demon hunters just because 

999
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:14,320
that's that feels genuine to 
what we want to build and who we

1000
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:16,240
are. 
And we take our work incredibly 

1001
00:50:16,240 --> 00:50:18,480
seriously. 
But you don't have to take every

1002
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:21,920
aspect of life so seriously. 
You don't have time to laugh or 

1003
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:24,360
make jokes. 
Liz, thanks so much for being 

1004
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:25,960
here. 
Love learning more about Endola.

1005
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:27,680
Really respect what you're 
trying to do. 

1006
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:30,440
That's what, well, what I got. 
Some biology we got some 

1007
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:33,080
biology, states you. 
Didn't expect David Grinsbin to 

1008
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:35,920
show up, but no one ever expects
David, yeah. 

1009
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:43,640
That's the best timeline. 
It's fun so much, Ross. 

1010
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:45,400
Thanks, Liz.