1
00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:08,100
Hey everyone, welcome to season 
2 of reversing climate change. 

2
00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:11,000
We are doing that podcasting. 
Now, in launching a patreon, you

3
00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:14,000
can find it at patreon.com slash
Nori podcasts. 

4
00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:16,100
There are various tiers with 
different types of goodies 

5
00:00:16,100 --> 00:00:18,200
available. 
Do you want to receive a special

6
00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:20,600
newsletter digest of what Nori 
knots are reading that week? 

7
00:00:20,700 --> 00:00:23,700
Be a part of a Nori book club. 
Get special access to Nori 

8
00:00:23,700 --> 00:00:25,900
events. 
Go take a look at patreon.com 

9
00:00:26,100 --> 00:00:28,900
Nori podcast for what we're 
offering and in that Spirit of 

10
00:00:28,907 --> 00:00:31,600
being lean and that So kind of 
way that, you know, we like to 

11
00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:34,200
do this list of goodies is 
subject to change and we'd very 

12
00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:36,300
much like your feedback. 
Is there something that you'd 

13
00:00:36,300 --> 00:00:38,200
really like to see? 
But it isn't listed here. 

14
00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:40,900
Honest, feedback does a lot to 
help us shape what we offer to 

15
00:00:40,900 --> 00:00:44,800
you, you can send an email to 
podcast that nor e.com or fill 

16
00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:47,100
out our podcast survey 
anonymously in our newsletter, 

17
00:00:47,100 --> 00:00:50,700
which you can find at nor e.com.
Subscribe, and thank you so much

18
00:00:50,700 --> 00:00:53,200
for listening to another season 
of reversing climate change. 

19
00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:02,600
This is a weird little intro. 
A that we're doing because Rob 

20
00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:10,000
Niven, guest of this episode is 
so confidential, so good. 

21
00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:12,600
At keeping his business has 
secrets that he did not inform 

22
00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:15,700
me of the great news that 
happened like five days. 

23
00:01:15,700 --> 00:01:17,400
Four days after we recorded this
Rob. 

24
00:01:17,500 --> 00:01:20,600
So we had to come back on and 
talk about what exciting news is

25
00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:23,100
happening for carbon cure a 
great. 

26
00:01:23,100 --> 00:01:26,800
Yeah, it is really exciting and 
now I'll be more than happy to 

27
00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:29,700
talk about it. 
Yeah, me too was. 

28
00:01:29,900 --> 00:01:32,700
Be happy to see this. 
I thought it was exciting. 

29
00:01:32,700 --> 00:01:35,500
The choices that were made and 
the thing that were alluding to 

30
00:01:35,500 --> 00:01:39,700
is that stripe at long last has 
announced the choices that they 

31
00:01:39,700 --> 00:01:42,600
are making in regards to their 
carbon removal policy. 

32
00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:46,200
And carbon cure is one of four 
groups that they are working 

33
00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:48,100
with right now. 
Yeah, that's right. 

34
00:01:48,100 --> 00:01:50,000
So they call it, the negative 
emissions. 

35
00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,600
Commitment. 
It was to invest in carbon 

36
00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:56,900
removal Technologies. 
They had a million dollars to 

37
00:01:56,900 --> 00:01:59,600
invest and they chose four 
companies. 

38
00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:04,300
To purchase negative emissions 
from we were one of the 

39
00:02:04,300 --> 00:02:08,699
companies we use CO2 and 
mineralized within concrete and 

40
00:02:08,699 --> 00:02:11,200
we're extremely excited about 
this, not just from the 

41
00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:15,000
investment. 
But really how this is creating 

42
00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:20,000
an entirely New Market and 
capital or financial model that 

43
00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:23,400
will help companies like ours, 
be able to scale up to meet the 

44
00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:25,400
needs and timelines of climate 
change. 

45
00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:29,400
Have you been getting a lot of 
attention since this news came 

46
00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:30,800
out? 
Yeah. 

47
00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:35,500
Certainly and I think especially
within the tech community so the

48
00:02:35,500 --> 00:02:39,300
intranet tech industry which is 
doing quite a lot right now, 

49
00:02:39,300 --> 00:02:41,000
around the space of carbon 
removal. 

50
00:02:41,100 --> 00:02:44,000
There's been a lot of 
high-profile announcements that 

51
00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:47,700
have been made, so I think this 
certainly gets some attention 

52
00:02:47,700 --> 00:02:49,200
there. 
I think. 

53
00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:53,300
Also the overall sector about 
engineered carbon removal 

54
00:02:53,300 --> 00:02:55,700
Solutions is getting some 
much-needed. 

55
00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:57,900
Attention. 
So that more capital is coming 

56
00:02:57,900 --> 00:03:00,600
into the space. 
I would also say that we're 

57
00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:03,700
raising money right now, so 
being able to share some great 

58
00:03:03,700 --> 00:03:06,100
news. 
Like this is definitely a very 

59
00:03:06,100 --> 00:03:09,900
welcome opportunity to speak 
more deeply about our company 

60
00:03:09,900 --> 00:03:12,600
and its impact. 
You know, I think one thing that

61
00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:16,000
that they make in their blog and
I do recommend people go and 

62
00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:18,700
read the blog as quite 
informative is that this is 

63
00:03:18,700 --> 00:03:22,300
going to take a portfolio of 
Solutions in the carbon removal 

64
00:03:22,300 --> 00:03:26,100
space, which does mean the 
biosphere and also some of Is 

65
00:03:26,700 --> 00:03:31,000
there more engineered Solutions?
And I think the story is much 

66
00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:34,800
more than just the money so 
million dollars in the grand 

67
00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:38,900
scheme of things is not a lot. 
However, what it does though is 

68
00:03:38,900 --> 00:03:44,800
it does create or catalyze this 
new Marketplace for negative 

69
00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:49,100
emissions purchasing which 
already exists today, in a lot 

70
00:03:49,100 --> 00:03:51,800
of biological likes, a forestry 
offsets. 

71
00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:55,700
So, in some ways this this is a 
really positive thing because it

72
00:03:55,800 --> 00:04:00,200
Creates an entirely new model of
attracting carbon offset 

73
00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:03,800
purchasing within carbon removal
for engineered Solutions, which 

74
00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:07,600
already exists today for 
forestry and other biological 

75
00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:09,700
type of emission reduction 
solution. 

76
00:04:09,700 --> 00:04:13,700
So I think, in some ways this is
going to be able to float all 

77
00:04:13,700 --> 00:04:17,000
boats and be able to bring more 
Capital into the space. 

78
00:04:17,700 --> 00:04:20,300
Absolutely. 
We're only focused on soil. 

79
00:04:20,899 --> 00:04:23,600
We like to say that we're 
agnostic towards the means of 

80
00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:27,500
carbon removal and want this to 
be as Rod and his big industry 

81
00:04:27,500 --> 00:04:30,200
as possible because we really do
need all hands on deck. 

82
00:04:30,500 --> 00:04:32,900
I like that ecumenical approach.
I'm glad you share it. 

83
00:04:33,300 --> 00:04:35,500
Well, we wish you. 
Well, if you're listening 

84
00:04:35,500 --> 00:04:38,800
hopefully you were able to glean
enough context for this to make 

85
00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:40,300
sense. 
If not, you can listen to 

86
00:04:40,300 --> 00:04:42,900
episode and come back to this 
and figure it out. 

87
00:04:42,900 --> 00:04:44,800
And there's links in the show 
notes for the stripe 

88
00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:48,200
announcement and anything else. 
That might be relevant that came

89
00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:50,300
out here. 
So thanks for the update, Rob. 

90
00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:53,900
Hey, it's my pleasure and sorry 
for being so secretive the other

91
00:04:53,900 --> 00:04:56,700
day. 
It wasn't a Appropriate amount 

92
00:04:56,700 --> 00:04:59,500
of circumspection. 
I think, I know how embargoes 

93
00:04:59,500 --> 00:05:02,900
work and loose lips sink ships 
as I say. 

94
00:05:02,900 --> 00:05:06,100
So it would be terrible. 
If you submarine your own deal, 

95
00:05:06,100 --> 00:05:09,000
bye-bye blabbing about it on the
podcast. 

96
00:05:09,900 --> 00:05:13,000
Well, it's also being quite 
respectful to a group that has 

97
00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:15,300
done so much to advance this 
space. 

98
00:05:15,300 --> 00:05:17,000
So it's the very least that we 
could do. 

99
00:05:17,500 --> 00:05:18,600
Yeah. 
I think that's that's totally 

100
00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:20,500
the right attitude. 
Well cool. 

101
00:05:20,500 --> 00:05:21,600
Hope you enjoy the rest of the 
show. 

102
00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:24,200
Hope this made sense, and thank 
you for listening. 

103
00:05:26,900 --> 00:05:29,000
Hello and welcome to the 
reversing climate change 

104
00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:32,300
podcast. 
I'm Ross Kenyon today we have 

105
00:05:32,300 --> 00:05:34,300
with me. 
Well, Christophe Chris Bosh pay 

106
00:05:34,300 --> 00:05:36,100
you used to co-host all the 
time. 

107
00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:39,600
Now you're a little too busy, 
too busy working on, agriculture

108
00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:41,400
stuff. 
So I'm happy to have you back in

109
00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:45,300
here talking about carbon Tech. 
I'm still on the roster, there's

110
00:05:45,300 --> 00:05:47,800
like put me in coach. 
This is a good one to be on. 

111
00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:51,200
There's this like the the 
slimmest little glimmer of 

112
00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:53,200
sadness in there. 
But yeah, I try to tap you on 

113
00:05:53,207 --> 00:05:56,900
the shoulder when time allows 
today, we have with us. 

114
00:05:56,900 --> 00:06:00,600
Us Rob Niven of carbon cure CEO 
and founder there. 

115
00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:03,000
Thank you for being here Rob. 
Thanks very much. 

116
00:06:03,100 --> 00:06:05,800
It's really a pleasure. 
Yeah, we're happy to have you, 

117
00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:09,300
we have like, we're pretty 
animated by what's happening in 

118
00:06:09,300 --> 00:06:10,900
concrete. 
We think there's a lot of 

119
00:06:10,900 --> 00:06:13,100
opportunity. 
There's a lot of peril to, it's 

120
00:06:13,100 --> 00:06:16,100
a huge part of world emissions. 
And what you're doing is, is 

121
00:06:16,100 --> 00:06:19,300
quite interesting. 
So, maybe give us a nice little 

122
00:06:19,300 --> 00:06:21,600
sample of what. 
Exactly is carbon cure and what 

123
00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:23,600
are you working on? 
Great. 

124
00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:25,600
Well, it's not too often. 
I hear someone say that they're 

125
00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,300
animated about concrete. 
At least outside of carbon cure.

126
00:06:28,300 --> 00:06:31,300
So I'm happy to do involve CH, 
you're in good company. 

127
00:06:31,300 --> 00:06:33,300
This is this is what we do is 
who we are. 

128
00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,700
Okay, great. 
Well, I'm amongst friends carbon

129
00:06:37,700 --> 00:06:42,500
cure is a clean tech company 
that uses CO2 and the production

130
00:06:42,500 --> 00:06:46,300
of concrete where it's actually 
used to make concrete with 

131
00:06:46,300 --> 00:06:49,600
production cost savings and also
lower carbon footprint. 

132
00:06:50,300 --> 00:06:53,600
So I'll again, you got the 
elevator pitch down, you must be

133
00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:56,000
a founder and CEO or something 
I've got 38. 

134
00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:57,500
I've done a fair. 
I'm out of pitching. 

135
00:06:57,500 --> 00:06:59,200
And in fact, we're actually 
doing some of that. 

136
00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:02,500
Now, if you want me to expand a 
bit on that, we're basing Nova 

137
00:07:02,500 --> 00:07:08,300
Scotia and we are working with, 
about 200 concrete plants. 

138
00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:12,500
We produced about 5 million, 
cubic yards of particular 

139
00:07:12,500 --> 00:07:15,100
concrete. 
Most of the production is 

140
00:07:15,100 --> 00:07:19,800
throughout the US Canada and 
we're now expanding into Asia as

141
00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:23,200
well. 
Most recently in Singapore and 

142
00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:25,600
see opportunities as well and 
and Europe. 

143
00:07:26,100 --> 00:07:29,000
So what Carpenter Was this were 
really trying to solve this 

144
00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:33,700
carbon problem of concrete. 
And if you look at some of the 

145
00:07:33,700 --> 00:07:36,400
mega Trends happening right now,
concrete is certainly On The 

146
00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:38,700
Rise. 
The megatrends I speak of our 

147
00:07:38,700 --> 00:07:42,100
population growth and 
urbanization, which are 

148
00:07:42,300 --> 00:07:45,800
colliding right now to create 
this unprecedented growth of 

149
00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:48,700
cities. 
And you may not know this but 

150
00:07:48,700 --> 00:07:50,600
cities are mostly made out of 
concrete. 

151
00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:54,600
It's the most abundant Building 
Material in the world more than 

152
00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:59,300
all the others combined two. 
And most used material on on the

153
00:07:59,300 --> 00:08:02,400
planet, after drinking water. 
That's a lot of concrete that's 

154
00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,200
being produced and it has quite 
a significant carbon footprint. 

155
00:08:05,300 --> 00:08:08,900
So, what we're trying to do is 
keep using concrete, because 

156
00:08:08,900 --> 00:08:12,000
it's a low cost and resilient 
material, and we're all going to

157
00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,700
need places to sleep and to work
and play. 

158
00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:18,200
But we need to be able to break 
that link of carbon emissions 

159
00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:22,700
and concrete production, so that
we can continue this growth of 

160
00:08:22,700 --> 00:08:25,400
cities. 
So Rob, can you help out our 

161
00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:28,000
listeners and kind of lay the 
foundations? 

162
00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:31,000
What's the difference between 
concrete and cement? 

163
00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:34,299
We did you mean pour a 
foundation Iceland? 

164
00:08:35,799 --> 00:08:38,100
Well sure, I'd be happy to 
answer. 

165
00:08:38,100 --> 00:08:42,000
That's commonly mixed up. 
There's no such thing as cement 

166
00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:45,600
Foundation or a cement Road, 
it's concrete. 

167
00:08:45,700 --> 00:08:50,300
And concrete is the building 
material when cement is mixed 

168
00:08:50,300 --> 00:08:52,900
with water. 
It becomes an active ingredient 

169
00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:54,900
holds. 
All of the Aggregates and sand 

170
00:08:54,900 --> 00:08:58,600
together to make concrete, which
is the foundation of our modern 

171
00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:02,200
society. 
So you hear about different 

172
00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:06,300
types of cement, there's like, 
Portland cement as an example. 

173
00:09:06,500 --> 00:09:08,600
Can you spell it out a little 
bit more for us? 

174
00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:12,100
I've quite enjoyed one of your 
promotional videos on your 

175
00:09:12,100 --> 00:09:15,300
website. 
Using a cake metaphor saying 

176
00:09:15,700 --> 00:09:20,100
that cement is like the cake and
concrete is an ingredient of the

177
00:09:20,100 --> 00:09:24,000
cake, but are there different 
cake varieties that we should be

178
00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:26,200
aware of? 
Yeah, there are. 

179
00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:28,700
Yeah. 
So I think the analogy that 

180
00:09:28,700 --> 00:09:32,900
you're thinking of is Is that 
concrete is the cake and cement 

181
00:09:32,900 --> 00:09:35,700
has the flower and that's it up.
There It Is. 

182
00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,800
Well, that's what I do. 
That's fine. 

183
00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:42,600
So they're Portland, cement is 
what you're referring to is, is 

184
00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:47,500
the ubiquitous form of cement 
and how you make cement is, you 

185
00:09:47,500 --> 00:09:52,400
start off by mining primarily 
Limestone from the earth and 

186
00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:57,700
then heating that in a kiln, a 
rotary Kiln on a cement plant at

187
00:09:57,700 --> 00:10:02,300
high temperatures and then Mint 
or I should say that limestone 

188
00:10:02,300 --> 00:10:07,700
is broken into two halves. 
So 1/2 by weight, is the 

189
00:10:07,700 --> 00:10:11,500
precursor to cement called 
clinker and then the other half 

190
00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:15,500
is actually CO2. 
And that's why cement has a high

191
00:10:15,500 --> 00:10:19,500
carbon intensity is because of 
this process, a mission called 

192
00:10:19,500 --> 00:10:24,600
calcination that is is due to 
the large emission profile of 

193
00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:27,900
the cement and concrete sector, 
which is around five to eight 

194
00:10:27,900 --> 00:10:30,900
percent of all global. 
Emissions. 

195
00:10:31,100 --> 00:10:34,200
So it's a really big emitter but
it's also a really big industry 

196
00:10:34,700 --> 00:10:36,600
but the heart of the whole issue
here. 

197
00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:41,400
Is this calcination reaction. 
It's not the thermal component 

198
00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:44,500
to heat up that count, which is 
only about one-third of the 

199
00:10:44,500 --> 00:10:48,000
total emissions of cement. 
So, cement is then shipped to 

200
00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,300
concrete plants, their separate 
cement plants. 

201
00:10:51,300 --> 00:10:56,000
Tend to be closer to Big Cory's 
concrete plants are closer to 

202
00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:59,900
where we live because concrete 
only has a shelf life of about 

203
00:11:00,100 --> 00:11:03,100
Minutes. 
So once you add water, the you 

204
00:11:03,100 --> 00:11:06,800
start the clock and if you get 
it to later, I'll set up and the

205
00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:08,300
truck, which is a whole 
headache. 

206
00:11:08,500 --> 00:11:11,200
So they tend to build many many 
concrete plants. 

207
00:11:11,500 --> 00:11:16,600
There's about 5,000 in the u.s. 
that are scattered around mostly

208
00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:19,900
metropolitan areas or wherever 
anything is ever built. 

209
00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:23,700
And that then takes cement mixes
with these other ingredients of 

210
00:11:23,700 --> 00:11:27,200
Aggregates and sand, and some 
water and some chemicals to form

211
00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:31,000
concrete and then concrete, if 
you think Of it as a pie. 

212
00:11:31,100 --> 00:11:35,500
Now that we have these baking 
analogy is most of the pie is 

213
00:11:35,500 --> 00:11:39,100
something called Ready. 
Mix Concrete and small, minority

214
00:11:39,100 --> 00:11:44,300
portions are things like Precast
and masonry so they're all made 

215
00:11:44,300 --> 00:11:47,900
up of about the same thing but 
different proportions and in 

216
00:11:47,900 --> 00:11:52,000
different production Styles but 
Ready Mix is the one to remember

217
00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:55,300
that accounts for the vast 
majority of cement and all 

218
00:11:55,300 --> 00:12:00,600
concrete types that are used and
in the US So carbon care focuses

219
00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:04,200
on all different product types, 
which is a unique attribute of 

220
00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:07,500
what we do. 
But most importantly is we are a

221
00:12:07,508 --> 00:12:12,200
carbon solution for the ready 
mcstays, got it. 

222
00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:16,500
You laid out a lot of really 
interesting topics and I'm not 

223
00:12:16,500 --> 00:12:21,700
entirely sure where to go, but I
want to start with maybe 

224
00:12:21,700 --> 00:12:25,700
chemistry 101. 
So you're describing a process 

225
00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:28,300
where you're converting 
Limestone into clinker. 

226
00:12:28,900 --> 00:12:34,600
And Limestone that CaCO3, right?
So you want to turn it into CA 0

227
00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:38,000
which leaves you with the CO2 
molecule and so the majority of 

228
00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:43,600
the emissions that have plagued 
the concrete industry are. 

229
00:12:43,900 --> 00:12:47,900
When you see that CO2 be lost 
into the atmosphere from the 

230
00:12:47,900 --> 00:12:50,300
heating, the Limestone process 
up, right? 

231
00:12:50,300 --> 00:12:53,700
And turning it into lime so it's
exactly right. 

232
00:12:53,900 --> 00:12:58,700
So are the cement Industries? 
Primary role is to crack c03. 

233
00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:05,000
E into two halfs of equivalent 
weight which is CO2 + C a0 so 

234
00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:09,100
calcium. 
Oxide clinker and CO2, CO2 goes 

235
00:13:09,100 --> 00:13:12,300
up the stack and is released 
into the atmosphere and 

236
00:13:12,300 --> 00:13:14,600
contributes to global warming. 
That's the problem that we're 

237
00:13:14,608 --> 00:13:18,700
trying to fix. 
But C a0 is a very productive 

238
00:13:18,700 --> 00:13:22,300
material is highly resilient and
uniform cement and which then 

239
00:13:22,300 --> 00:13:24,500
allows us to build everything 
around us. 

240
00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:30,000
And so you're literally curing 
the carbon back into that CA 0 

241
00:13:30,700 --> 00:13:36,100
we're actually reforming CaCO3, 
which is the thermodynamically 

242
00:13:36,100 --> 00:13:40,800
stable form of calcium oxide. 
It doesn't want to be calcium 

243
00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:44,400
oxide, you had to put all this 
energy into it and all this 

244
00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:48,200
worked crack it. 
What we do is that once cement 

245
00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:53,200
is is mixed in back into 
concrete as we introduce some 

246
00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:57,400
CO2 that reacts. 
That calcium oxide to form a 

247
00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:02,000
different type of limestone. 
It's a nanomaterial that we're 

248
00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:06,200
creating and it's a really 
important form because that 

249
00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:10,200
allows concrete to have higher 
strength by adding this 

250
00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:13,700
nanomaterial early in the 
hydration reaction, may be 

251
00:14:13,700 --> 00:14:16,200
getting a bit technical here, 
but that's a really important 

252
00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:18,400
stage for our how our technology
works is. 

253
00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:25,400
We we create value from CO2 by 
reforming calcium carbonate And 

254
00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:30,000
the form of a nano Limestone, 
which then gives concrete higher

255
00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:34,000
strength, which then gives 
concrete producers, the ability 

256
00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,700
to alter, how they make 
concrete, so that they need less

257
00:14:36,700 --> 00:14:39,200
cement. 
Remember, cement is carbon 

258
00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:42,100
intensive. 
So then that lowers the overall 

259
00:14:42,100 --> 00:14:45,400
carbon footprint of concrete by 
both using less cement, and 

260
00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:49,400
also, by permanently 
mineralizing CO2, back in the 

261
00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:52,600
original product. 
And all, this is done in a way 

262
00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:56,800
that we can provide this better.
Lower carbon concrete at the 

263
00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:01,300
same price as what's made today.
Rob, we're going to go into 

264
00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:03,600
greater detail and resolution 
here. 

265
00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:08,000
I do want us to zoom out a tiny 
bit because I imagine most 

266
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:10,700
people listening are like me. 
And don't know much about 

267
00:15:10,700 --> 00:15:13,400
concrete. 
I'm playing a little bit dumb, 

268
00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:16,800
but I'm starting pretty close to
scratch about how exactly this 

269
00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:18,200
thing that we all take for 
granted. 

270
00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:21,400
That is around us at all. 
Times don't really know that 

271
00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:22,900
much about it. 
In fact, when I think of 

272
00:15:22,900 --> 00:15:27,000
concrete I think back to Like 
Roman roads and stuff like that,

273
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:28,400
which I don't know is that 
concrete. 

274
00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:32,100
But also how much of it has 
actually changed over the time 

275
00:15:32,100 --> 00:15:35,300
that concrete's been in use. 
It just seems ubiquitous and 

276
00:15:35,300 --> 00:15:38,000
sort of, with a since Humanity. 
I know that's not the case, but 

277
00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:39,500
how much has it changed over 
time? 

278
00:15:40,300 --> 00:15:42,100
It actually hasn't changed that 
much. 

279
00:15:42,100 --> 00:15:45,500
And that's I think that's really
a testament to how good of a 

280
00:15:45,500 --> 00:15:48,200
material it is. 
And, you know, certainly, the 

281
00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:53,900
formulation of Portland cement 
that we have today is about 150 

282
00:15:53,900 --> 00:15:58,400
years old. 
But forms of cement and sand and

283
00:15:58,408 --> 00:16:01,200
hydraulic cements have been 
around for a very long time. 

284
00:16:01,700 --> 00:16:04,200
And a lot of structures are 
still standing today. 

285
00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:09,300
Like the pantheon that were made
with early forms of concrete so 

286
00:16:09,300 --> 00:16:12,800
this speaks to its ability to be
highly durable and resilient 

287
00:16:13,100 --> 00:16:15,800
which today takes a different 
meaning as we think about the 

288
00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:19,000
effects of climate change. 
We're going to need to build 

289
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:23,200
more resilient lie to the 
effects of water and fire and 

290
00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:25,800
wind and, and so on. 
So, So, we do need those 

291
00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:28,500
resilient materials that have 
stood up to the test of time, 

292
00:16:28,500 --> 00:16:31,000
and that's also cheap, and 
local. 

293
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,800
And that's why there's just so 
much of it everywhere, you know,

294
00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:35,600
I agree with you. 
It's in some ways. 

295
00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:39,600
It's, it's been around and it's 
all around us, but most of the 

296
00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:42,200
time, people never think about 
it because they just take it for

297
00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,500
granted, but it is literally 
below our feet right now and 

298
00:16:45,500 --> 00:16:49,000
wrapped all around us and there 
wouldn't be civilization today 

299
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:52,600
if it wasn't for concrete. 
But its role in the future is 

300
00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:56,500
really in question because of 
this carbon How do we continue 

301
00:16:56,500 --> 00:16:59,600
to get all that good stuff, but 
do it in a way that's actually 

302
00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:03,800
compatible with climate goals, 
and like, a two degree or 1.5 

303
00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:08,099
degrees Celsius Target. 
Right now, it's not compatible. 

304
00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:10,900
So we need to fix that and 
that's really where carving care

305
00:17:10,900 --> 00:17:13,800
comes in. 
If we didn't do something like 

306
00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:17,300
carving care and we didn't make 
concrete better, what would we 

307
00:17:17,300 --> 00:17:19,599
be left with? 
What's the the alternative to 

308
00:17:19,599 --> 00:17:23,000
concrete for building? 
It is such a great question. 

309
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:25,300
Because there isn't anything 
like, if you think about the 

310
00:17:25,300 --> 00:17:29,400
other big, climate discussions 
like energy Mobility. 

311
00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:32,800
If you think about those things,
there's better options, right? 

312
00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,800
There's low-carbon options. 
If you don't like Cole, well, 

313
00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:39,200
put a solar panel on your roof, 
that's just not the case with 

314
00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:41,900
concrete is. 
There's nothing that we can use 

315
00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:45,600
at the scale that we need to use
things and the density that we 

316
00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:50,400
need to build that is comparable
like so that's that's the real 

317
00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:53,700
rub. 
Here is we don't have a choice. 

318
00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:57,700
We don't have a plan B to 
concrete but at the same time we

319
00:17:57,700 --> 00:18:01,500
can't we can achieve all this 
growth of cities like will be 

320
00:18:01,500 --> 00:18:06,600
doubling everything we've ever 
built and 40 years the next 40 

321
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:09,000
years. 
Just think about how much more 

322
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:13,800
construction that is that spoke 
2.5 trillion square feet and for

323
00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:17,300
us to be able to build that much
is just going to blow away our 

324
00:18:17,300 --> 00:18:20,500
climate targets. 
So we had to figure out a way of

325
00:18:20,500 --> 00:18:23,700
doing this. 
Are we get back to our analogy 

326
00:18:23,700 --> 00:18:26,500
with cakes as we get to have our
cake and eat it too? 

327
00:18:27,100 --> 00:18:31,800
I like cake cake to either. 
They've been listening to this 

328
00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:34,600
podcast for a while because, you
know, we like to torture these 

329
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,600
metaphors analogies, go ahead 
and stuff. 

330
00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:42,700
Yeah, we also like getting 
really wonky on carbon 

331
00:18:42,700 --> 00:18:46,800
Footprints and you said those 
words, so let's go into it and 

332
00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,100
maybe I'll just throw some terms
that you and maybe you can weave

333
00:18:49,100 --> 00:18:53,200
them into a response in In the 
built environment, we often hear

334
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:55,000
this term called embodied 
carbon. 

335
00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:59,100
I'm curious how that plays into 
your process or sorry, you're 

336
00:18:59,100 --> 00:19:04,000
Canadian. 
So process and I'm also curious 

337
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:07,500
just, you know, Upstream 
Downstream all the emissions 

338
00:19:07,500 --> 00:19:11,000
sort of, how do you calculate 
the carbon footprint of what 

339
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:14,300
concrete is doing today? 
And then what the carbon care 

340
00:19:14,300 --> 00:19:18,300
process does to reduce. 
That carbon footprint. 

341
00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:23,100
Great question I'm so Glad you 
brought up embodied carbon. 

342
00:19:23,100 --> 00:19:27,000
And I'm not surprised because 
you guys are based in Seattle, 

343
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,600
but that has been were a lot of 
the best thinking has happened. 

344
00:19:30,700 --> 00:19:34,700
The University of Washington, 
the carbon leadership Forum, 

345
00:19:34,700 --> 00:19:37,200
Kate's eminent, who's their 
executive director. 

346
00:19:37,900 --> 00:19:40,200
And if I could just sort of Riff
on that point, just for a 

347
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:42,300
moment, just because it's so 
important for people to 

348
00:19:42,300 --> 00:19:44,700
understand is when you're 
thinking about the built 

349
00:19:44,700 --> 00:19:49,000
environment and and 
decarbonization most people 

350
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:54,600
think about eating event Elation
lighting, better Windows, and 

351
00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:58,500
insulation, and all of those 
things reduce what's called 

352
00:19:58,500 --> 00:20:02,200
operating emissions and those 
emissions. 

353
00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:06,400
As you would expect are emitted 
as energy is consumed over the 

354
00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:10,900
lifetime of the building, what 
people like Kate's eminent have 

355
00:20:10,900 --> 00:20:14,700
discovered is that we have 
entirely missed the boat. 

356
00:20:14,700 --> 00:20:18,600
And we've had a great blind spot
around this embodied, carbon 

357
00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:22,800
component and embodied carbon is
all of Emissions that are still 

358
00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:25,500
attributed to the built. 
Environment photo released 

359
00:20:25,500 --> 00:20:28,700
during the production of 
materials and the construction 

360
00:20:28,700 --> 00:20:32,700
phase of those same buildings. 
And if you do the accounting, 

361
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:37,400
what they discovered is that the
embodied CO2 emissions of 

362
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,700
buildings. 
So the construction phase in the

363
00:20:39,708 --> 00:20:44,600
materials production accounts 
for about half of the entire 

364
00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,700
emissions of a building over its
entire life cycle. 

365
00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:52,900
So building may be around for 50
60, 70 years, but half of its 

366
00:20:52,900 --> 00:20:56,700
emissions are released before 
that first tenant ever steps 

367
00:20:56,700 --> 00:20:59,700
through the front door. 
So for thinking about tying 

368
00:20:59,700 --> 00:21:03,900
value of carbon, we're thinking 
about near term climate targets.

369
00:21:03,900 --> 00:21:06,000
We've got really ten years to 
work with. 

370
00:21:06,300 --> 00:21:08,800
We've got a really get on top of
this and bodied thing and it's a

371
00:21:08,808 --> 00:21:12,500
bit alarming that we're at. 
This is only coming to light how

372
00:21:12,700 --> 00:21:15,900
so there's a lot of urgency and 
there's actually some some great

373
00:21:15,900 --> 00:21:19,600
work that's been done by Bill 
Gates, Other local business and 

374
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:23,200
climate celebrity and the 
Seattle area, who's really 

375
00:21:23,700 --> 00:21:27,700
jumped onto this topic and has 
created some material to educate

376
00:21:27,700 --> 00:21:30,600
people on it as well. 
As I said the carbon leadership 

377
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:33,200
forum and tools that they 
develop like DC-3. 

378
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:35,400
So really, really important 
topic. 

379
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:39,200
So if you look at the accounting
a little bit further and what 

380
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:43,000
you realize is that concrete is 
the number one contributor to 

381
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:47,700
embodied CO2 buildings. 
The answer is not to use less 

382
00:21:47,700 --> 00:21:50,100
concrete because we know we need
to do it. 

383
00:21:50,100 --> 00:21:53,700
We want to do it, but it's to do
it in a way that's lower carbon.

384
00:21:54,100 --> 00:21:58,100
Now, concrete can be made of 
really Limitless different 

385
00:21:58,100 --> 00:22:00,600
ratios. 
What's called mixed designs that

386
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:02,100
have different carbon 
Footprints. 

387
00:22:02,700 --> 00:22:05,000
The thing that you need to 
really know is whatever. 

388
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,900
The cement content is of. 
That concrete will have a big 

389
00:22:07,900 --> 00:22:12,200
impact on the carbon emissions 
of that, cubic yard of concrete 

390
00:22:12,500 --> 00:22:17,600
or a cat that we've called M3. 
And the more cement usually the 

391
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,900
higher strength or other 
attributes but also means a 

392
00:22:20,900 --> 00:22:25,300
higher carbon footprint. 
So a way to look at that as 

393
00:22:25,300 --> 00:22:29,700
there might be 300 kgs on the M3
of concrete. 

394
00:22:30,100 --> 00:22:32,900
Now the goal is to try to get 
that number down because that's 

395
00:22:32,900 --> 00:22:38,200
the single largest thing you can
do to reduce Urban of concrete 

396
00:22:38,500 --> 00:22:43,200
or of buildings. 
And what we do is we as I said 

397
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:47,300
mineralize CO2. 
The concrete, but as well as 

398
00:22:47,300 --> 00:22:50,100
reduce the amount of cement in 
the concrete, without reducing 

399
00:22:50,100 --> 00:22:54,700
the quality of the product. 
So today we do, you know, 

400
00:22:54,708 --> 00:23:00,500
somewhere in the order of around
15 to 20 kgs, but we have 

401
00:23:00,500 --> 00:23:04,800
Technologies now that we're 
rolling out to get us to 100 and

402
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:09,900
we can do that in a way that has
minimal to no capex for the 

403
00:23:09,900 --> 00:23:14,800
plant and also doesn't impose 
any cost increases for the 

404
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:16,900
actual end user of that 
concrete. 

405
00:23:17,100 --> 00:23:21,200
I think that's something really 
key to think about is, whatever 

406
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,200
climate Solutions are brought to
Market. 

407
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:27,200
They need to be scalable and 
that means a lot of different 

408
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,500
things. 
And one of them of course it has

409
00:23:29,500 --> 00:23:34,800
to be a good technology but 
ideally it's also affordable and

410
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:38,200
in scalable across the entire 
industry and those are all just 

411
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:39,900
as important you need to get 
them. 

412
00:23:39,900 --> 00:23:42,800
All right for you to be able to 
actually make a difference on 

413
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,200
climate. 
If I could read back, what I'm 

414
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:49,300
hearing you say, is your 
technology presents a better 

415
00:23:49,300 --> 00:23:55,400
product uses less input and 
saves people money and 

416
00:23:55,500 --> 00:23:59,100
irrespective of if you believe 
in climate change or not is just

417
00:23:59,100 --> 00:24:02,200
the logical Way Forward. 
Why isn't everyone doing it? 

418
00:24:02,500 --> 00:24:05,900
Well like all Technologies to 
take a bit of time and we're 

419
00:24:05,900 --> 00:24:08,700
certainly on a roll. 
Now the last three quarters is 

420
00:24:08,700 --> 00:24:12,300
we've smashed are our sales 
records and over continue to 

421
00:24:12,300 --> 00:24:16,300
grow really quickly. 
But this anecdote, Tsar is 

422
00:24:16,300 --> 00:24:18,300
everyone's from Missouri, the 
Show-Me State. 

423
00:24:18,300 --> 00:24:21,200
So it does take a bit of time to
get through that phase. 

424
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,600
But that period is getting 
shorter and shorter as their 

425
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:28,100
peers from across, the country 
are realizing, is that this is 

426
00:24:28,108 --> 00:24:30,400
just a better way. 
And you don't have to be a 

427
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:32,900
granola to use a technology like
this. 

428
00:24:33,100 --> 00:24:35,600
Because whether you believe in 
climate or not. 

429
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:39,700
And certainly, I think I think 
we all agree that it's a major 

430
00:24:39,700 --> 00:24:43,500
issue, but most of our sales 
discussions, never use the word 

431
00:24:43,700 --> 00:24:45,900
Climate. 
We're talking about just making 

432
00:24:45,900 --> 00:24:49,500
a better product that arguably 
is also in high demand by your 

433
00:24:49,500 --> 00:24:53,000
customers, but this is a 
business decision that allows 

434
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:56,100
you to differentiate yourself 
because the guy down the road, 

435
00:24:56,100 --> 00:24:59,100
you might be making concrete is 
just making some more warm gray 

436
00:24:59,100 --> 00:25:03,800
stuff and there's nothing 
Innovative or green about it and

437
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,600
this is an opportunity for you 
to be able to get that leg up. 

438
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,700
And those are the kind of 
discussions that we want to have

439
00:25:09,700 --> 00:25:12,200
with with producers and also 
their customers. 

440
00:25:12,500 --> 00:25:17,700
So those could be Data centers 
or offices or airports and we've

441
00:25:17,700 --> 00:25:20,400
done all different types of 
projects ourselves, how is 

442
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,900
business going? 
Rob you guys on a tear right now

443
00:25:23,900 --> 00:25:25,600
or I'm in, this is the covid 
time. 

444
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,000
I wonder is building still 
continuing a pace or people more

445
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,700
conservative, how are things 
looking over at Carbon cure? 

446
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,300
Well, every, every industry is 
being hit and fortunately, the 

447
00:25:35,300 --> 00:25:39,100
concrete, or the construction 
industry has and many states. 

448
00:25:39,100 --> 00:25:42,600
And in other parts of the world,
maybe been affected a bit less 

449
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,400
just because it has been 
considered an essential service 

450
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:47,500
and concrete is still being 
poured. 

451
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:51,100
There's a strong digital element
to our products. 

452
00:25:51,100 --> 00:25:55,000
So we actually have an AI and 
Telemetry component where we 

453
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,400
have insights into production 
all around country, certainly in

454
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,400
some parts of the world. 
So we get a really close Those 

455
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,500
real-time Sense on how business 
is going. 

456
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,400
So that gives us some some hope 
that this this industry is going

457
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:11,100
to fare relatively. 
Well, we have adapted, how we're

458
00:26:11,100 --> 00:26:14,500
doing business before we used to
send Engineers some planes to 

459
00:26:14,500 --> 00:26:17,000
and set up plants. 
We were really good at it. 

460
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,000
Only took us about a date, 
actually retrofit entire plant, 

461
00:26:20,300 --> 00:26:24,100
but now because of covid, and 
because we can put people on 

462
00:26:24,100 --> 00:26:27,800
planes as we've had to adapt the
product but also how we do 

463
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,000
things. 
So now we're continuing to grow.

464
00:26:31,300 --> 00:26:34,100
Tending to even put up plants, 
we just put up our first plant 

465
00:26:34,100 --> 00:26:38,400
in Florida two weeks ago without
ever setting an engineer foot on

466
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,300
the ground. 
So doing everything remotely 

467
00:26:40,300 --> 00:26:42,700
now. 
And to us, this could be 

468
00:26:42,700 --> 00:26:44,700
revealing as a better way of 
doing business. 

469
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,800
It's basically Minecraft, right?
We're my craft. 

470
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,300
Yeah, baby. 
But I think is a bigger story 

471
00:26:52,300 --> 00:26:54,400
here, right? 
Like, I think, I think people 

472
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:59,200
are really waking up to the 
effects of climate change and 

473
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,100
people see this as a business 
opportunity. 

474
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,600
T possibly as a moral 
imperative. 

475
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:08,700
And and there's a lot of 
momentum here that covid snot 

476
00:27:08,700 --> 00:27:11,500
going to slow down. 
And I think, clean tech 

477
00:27:11,500 --> 00:27:14,900
companies, like ours are going 
to continue to be very 

478
00:27:14,900 --> 00:27:17,600
successful and we got some great
momentum. 

479
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,400
In January. 
We were just named the American 

480
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:24,500
clean tech company the year for 
out raising money right now and 

481
00:27:24,500 --> 00:27:29,600
always looking for new partners 
and Industry construction sector

482
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,700
but more and more. 
Two are actually passing 

483
00:27:32,700 --> 00:27:35,700
policies now, because they 
realize this is just better 

484
00:27:35,700 --> 00:27:38,700
concrete. 
And this is a totally overlooked

485
00:27:38,700 --> 00:27:42,700
climate solution that they can 
use to help meet their targets. 

486
00:27:42,700 --> 00:27:46,800
Whether its corporate public 
climate targets, is that why 

487
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:50,100
carbon care got started? 
Did you have that sort of vision

488
00:27:50,100 --> 00:27:53,000
in mind? 
Well, this was my thesis this 

489
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,100
technology. 
So, this is really personal, 

490
00:27:55,100 --> 00:27:57,800
right? 
And it's even become, even more 

491
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,600
personal I ever could have 
imagined since having our first 

492
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:02,900
child. 
And because now this like really

493
00:28:02,900 --> 00:28:06,800
matters, you know, like it's 
much more than an academic 

494
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:10,400
exercise or even the climate 
space is its family, it's really

495
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:14,400
personal and I think when this 
thing got started like the 

496
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:18,500
vision of certainly evolved and 
as we brought on a bigger and 

497
00:28:18,500 --> 00:28:22,600
you know, great talented team, 
we really learn from each other 

498
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,900
and are inspired by each other 
as well as bringing on some new 

499
00:28:25,900 --> 00:28:28,300
investors. 
And we're just delighted to 

500
00:28:28,300 --> 00:28:31,000
include breakthrough energy 
Ventures on our last round. 

501
00:28:31,500 --> 00:28:36,600
Is that this has raised our 
ambition and our vision where we

502
00:28:36,700 --> 00:28:40,400
want to reduce five hundred 
megatons of CO2 emissions in 

503
00:28:40,500 --> 00:28:45,000
here, we believe there's a very 
clear path for us to do that and

504
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:46,800
we think it's entirely 
achievable. 

505
00:28:47,500 --> 00:28:50,400
What keeps me up at night 
though, is how can I do this in 

506
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,000
a time scale that actually 
matters. 

507
00:28:52,500 --> 00:28:55,300
How can I do this in 10 years? 
I should say I nice. 

508
00:28:55,300 --> 00:28:58,500
We we as a team or we have all 
Barb sort of broader 

509
00:28:58,500 --> 00:29:01,100
stakeholders and so we need a 
lot more people. 

510
00:29:01,300 --> 00:29:03,500
Under the Tent. 
But what's great? 

511
00:29:03,500 --> 00:29:06,500
That's not a it's not a question
of, is this possible? 

512
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:08,800
It's just how fast can we get 
this thing done? 

513
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,400
And we need a lot more Partners 
from from industry and 

514
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:16,200
government media. 
And so, on to be able to do that

515
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,600
because everybody has a role and
sometimes I think that clean 

516
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,000
tech companies up too much 
pressure on them because, you 

517
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,000
know, they're expected to solve 
all these huge societal issues 

518
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,500
while the same time making a 
buck for their shareholders. 

519
00:29:28,100 --> 00:29:31,200
But, you know, it's something 
that we all have to be part. 

520
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:35,000
And a big part of that is around
procurement of clicking Tech 

521
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:38,600
products and solutions because 
that changes market dynamics, I 

522
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,300
think carbon offsets have an 
important role to play. 

523
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:45,400
I've seen a lot of the Tech 
Industries or move into that by 

524
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,300
playing a bigger role to 
accelerate and catalyze change. 

525
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,600
So government policies, 
especially procurement policies 

526
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:53,600
or want to do. 
So, lots and lots of different 

527
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,000
ways. 
People can get involved manual 

528
00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:00,800
and so much good stuff there. 
But you said a very audacious 

529
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:02,200
numbers. 
So I want to walk back from 

530
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:06,700
that, which is that with this 
type of Technology, the world 

531
00:30:06,700 --> 00:30:11,100
can reduce half a billion tons 
of carbon dioxide per year. 

532
00:30:11,700 --> 00:30:15,700
Can you help us out with some 
math and talking about the order

533
00:30:15,700 --> 00:30:17,900
of magnitude? 
So that's the macro scale then 

534
00:30:17,900 --> 00:30:21,800
zooming in on a plant, how much 
CO2 reduction can one plant. 

535
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:26,300
See, and early on, you 
mentioned, words, sort of capex.

536
00:30:26,300 --> 00:30:29,100
Op X, the capital expenditures 
and operational expenses. 

537
00:30:29,700 --> 00:30:33,000
Just kind of do some math for Of
what is it going to take to see 

538
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:37,000
this technology scale to reach 
that half a billion, tons of 

539
00:30:37,100 --> 00:30:41,100
climate mitigation per year. 
Well, the good thing going for 

540
00:30:41,100 --> 00:30:43,300
for this is it's a huge 
industry. 

541
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:47,800
We talked earlier on about how 
this is the most widely used 

542
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:51,200
material after water and there's
about a hundred thousand plants 

543
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:53,600
worldwide. 
You know, if you just focused on

544
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,800
China alone, that's 50% of all 
production. 

545
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:01,100
I remember back in 2014, reading
a quota as well by Bill Gates. 

546
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:05,400
And said that China has used 
more concrete and three years, 

547
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:09,200
then the US has in its history, 
lots of impact happening, 

548
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:13,000
especially in Emerging Markets. 
So, what I'm trying to say is 

549
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:17,100
that the size of the, of the 
industry actually means that it 

550
00:31:17,100 --> 00:31:20,400
has a big carbon footprint, but 
also a big carbon opportunity 

551
00:31:20,900 --> 00:31:24,000
and because we have a business 
model that is not only 

552
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:28,800
affordable, but, but actually 
creates value and cost 

553
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,800
efficiencies, then there's an 
economic driver that we Behind 

554
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,700
us, that doesn't rely on 
regulatory, to be able to drive 

555
00:31:35,700 --> 00:31:38,900
change, but regulatory might 
accelerate change. 

556
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:41,800
So I'm trying to think, how do I
get there? 

557
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,000
Is that it comes down to two 
things? 

558
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,800
More plants. 
So we need to expand into, 

559
00:31:46,900 --> 00:31:48,800
especially Emerging Markets 
faster. 

560
00:31:49,500 --> 00:31:52,300
But we also have to layer on 
additional Technologies. 

561
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:57,000
So, are what we call our mixer. 
Technology today gets us about a

562
00:31:57,008 --> 00:32:01,100
third of the way there, and then
we have what we call our watch. 

563
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:06,100
Water technology that just came 
out last year and that gets us 

564
00:32:06,100 --> 00:32:09,000
about half the way. 
And then we have other 

565
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:12,700
Technologies, which are inter 
Innovation pipeline that close 

566
00:32:12,700 --> 00:32:16,900
up the the remainder and by 
incorporating a stack of 

567
00:32:16,900 --> 00:32:21,000
Technologies and carbon cures a 
portfolio Solutions, not just 

568
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,100
one that all use CO2 in a 
productive manner. 

569
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:29,200
Then that allows us to be able 
to plant by plant Dollar by 

570
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,200
Dollar. 
Get us to the CO2, emission 

571
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:36,200
targets that we can achieve. 
What are some of the ways that 

572
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,300
policy can support? 
What you're doing? 

573
00:32:38,300 --> 00:32:43,000
Rob that's really interesting 
model was created in Hawaii last

574
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,100
year. 
That I really don't think got 

575
00:32:45,100 --> 00:32:48,400
enough attention. 
So we work with a group and in 

576
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,100
Hawaii called the elemental 
accelerator, maybe you've heard 

577
00:32:51,100 --> 00:32:54,000
of them just a phenomenal clean 
Tech Community. 

578
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,500
They've created that collects 
clean, tech CEOs and Founders 

579
00:32:57,500 --> 00:33:00,400
from around the world and 
creates this place-based 

580
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,800
learning type. 
Of ecosystem to drive clean tech

581
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:06,600
deployment in a number of 
different areas, like water or 

582
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,600
circular economy, climate energy
mobility and so on. 

583
00:33:10,500 --> 00:33:13,500
But they have deep deep roots in
Hawaii, which is a pretty 

584
00:33:13,500 --> 00:33:17,400
courageous sort of policy 
environment, and both the state 

585
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:21,700
and city, created some policies 
around procurement where at its 

586
00:33:21,700 --> 00:33:27,100
most basic form stated that they
would use concrete made with 

587
00:33:27,100 --> 00:33:31,200
mineralized CO2. 
If it was available at the same 

588
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:35,600
cost and same quality or Car 
Projects, this is important that

589
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:37,500
we state government projects 
because that's something that 

590
00:33:37,500 --> 00:33:40,100
government can control. 
And so ends a lot less 

591
00:33:40,100 --> 00:33:43,000
contentious, as saying everybody
in the private sector needs to 

592
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:46,200
make concrete. 
Certain way are used concrete of

593
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:48,800
made in a certain way. 
And this is something the lines,

594
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:51,500
their climate goals with their 
procurement. 

595
00:33:51,500 --> 00:33:53,600
And they also take all the 
downside risk of it around 

596
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:56,500
economics. 
And and Quality quality is 

597
00:33:56,500 --> 00:33:58,600
really important when you're 
building a bridge or a school. 

598
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,500
it's not too different than say 
some of the trends we're seeing 

599
00:34:02,500 --> 00:34:05,600
with by Clean legislation coming
out of places like California 

600
00:34:05,700 --> 00:34:09,900
that are rapidly expanding 
across the country but this was 

601
00:34:09,900 --> 00:34:13,300
a really focused on concrete and
it had an immediate effect in 

602
00:34:13,300 --> 00:34:17,000
the market where private sector 
saw what was happening and 

603
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:21,100
public sector and saw that this 
was a success and government was

604
00:34:21,100 --> 00:34:25,100
helping meet their climate 
targets and that led to change 

605
00:34:25,300 --> 00:34:29,199
and then Honolulu host of the US
Conference of Mayors, which I 

606
00:34:29,207 --> 00:34:32,400
think represents about thirteen 
hundred cities across the u.s. 

607
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:35,800
they saw what was happening in 
Hawaii, then passed a resolution

608
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:38,900
to the same effect that then 
spends the entire country and 

609
00:34:38,900 --> 00:34:42,900
then a number of devotees and 
other cities have have then 

610
00:34:42,900 --> 00:34:45,500
taken that resolution and 
implemented it. 

611
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:49,400
And one that I think is worth 
paying attention to is a bill 

612
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:55,100
that was just introduced to New 
York State 86 17, ab86 17, which

613
00:34:55,100 --> 00:34:59,100
takes this type of an LLC, a 
green procurement approach to 

614
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:02,500
Group because they recognize its
impact on embodied. 

615
00:35:02,500 --> 00:35:05,000
CO2 in the built environment, 
they've done a lot on 

616
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,500
operational and then realize 
they need to play catch-up on 

617
00:35:07,500 --> 00:35:10,400
the body. 
And this is how they targeted. 

618
00:35:10,500 --> 00:35:13,900
And what's been really cool 
about seeing that build of all 

619
00:35:13,900 --> 00:35:15,700
his. 
It's received support from 

620
00:35:15,700 --> 00:35:20,300
industry from ngos, 
construction, sector political, 

621
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,200
and I hope, I hope that one 
successful. 

622
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:25,000
Of course, with current covid 
environment. 

623
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,300
That's not doing anyone any 
favors, but I think it's 

624
00:35:28,300 --> 00:35:32,700
probably one of the The most 
refined approaches and creating 

625
00:35:32,700 --> 00:35:36,800
a guaranteed buyer in that way. 
It's pretty Innovative. 

626
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:39,600
And pretty interesting way to do
policy from that procurement 

627
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,300
level. 
I'm not, like I said, there's 

628
00:35:42,300 --> 00:35:44,800
what government is the single 
largest buyer concrete. 

629
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:49,300
So well, there you have it and a
big influence in the 

630
00:35:49,300 --> 00:35:51,600
marketplace. 
And, you know, if I Dream Out 

631
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:56,300
Loud, as I just wonder is when 
covid stimulus funding hits for 

632
00:35:56,300 --> 00:35:58,900
infrastructure. 
Why not play a climate lens to 

633
00:35:58,900 --> 00:36:02,000
that. 
Please give people prioritizing 

634
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,100
green infrastructure Solutions 
if it's the same price and 

635
00:36:05,100 --> 00:36:07,500
quality like why wouldn't you do
that? 

636
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,900
Because then you kind of get a 
twofer right is you get all the 

637
00:36:10,900 --> 00:36:13,600
stimulus and you get all the 
infrastructure and then and then

638
00:36:13,607 --> 00:36:16,200
you also get on the climate 
benefit and it doesn't cost 

639
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:17,300
anything. 
Why not do it? 

640
00:36:17,900 --> 00:36:20,900
I know there's someone who's 
crankily grimacing right now. 

641
00:36:20,900 --> 00:36:23,700
Listen this paying like, it 
isn't as a much of a free 

642
00:36:23,700 --> 00:36:27,600
lunches, you are saying rob, but
it does sound pretty compelling 

643
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:29,100
to me. 
I need to learn more about how 

644
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:31,500
Procurement policy works and 
wrap my head around it, but 

645
00:36:31,900 --> 00:36:34,700
that's very cool. 
One of the things and all pass 

646
00:36:34,700 --> 00:36:39,200
it to Christophe to to work out 
with you is oftentimes tap 

647
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:42,400
Christoph on the shoulder to be 
the LCA Watchdog and just trying

648
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:45,700
to make sure that what is 
happening or claim to be 

649
00:36:45,700 --> 00:36:49,100
happening is actually happening 
the Bold environmental claims of

650
00:36:49,100 --> 00:36:52,900
various types of producers or 
companies are being checked. 

651
00:36:53,100 --> 00:36:56,100
So Christoph, won't you dive 
into the wild world of lcas for 

652
00:36:56,100 --> 00:36:58,900
us the life cycle assessment? 
Huh? 

653
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:04,200
It comes back to, this is what 
we're talking about, reducing 

654
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:07,900
the flow of carbon to the 
atmosphere, or can it fall into 

655
00:37:07,900 --> 00:37:13,300
the carbon removal camp? 
That's a question for you rob. 

656
00:37:13,300 --> 00:37:16,800
Okay. 
So what what is carbon removal? 

657
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,200
And the way that I would Define 
it as it's a coin with two 

658
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,600
sides. 
So we need to capture and we 

659
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:26,900
need to use the CO2. 
Once it's captured, sometimes I 

660
00:37:26,900 --> 00:37:30,800
scratch my head when I hear, you
know, capture being referenced 

661
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:34,700
as as a climate solution where 
it isn't without having the 

662
00:37:34,700 --> 00:37:38,500
other side of the coin and just 
as utilisation needs CO2 to be a

663
00:37:38,508 --> 00:37:44,900
complete climate solution, So 
carbon cure is agnostic, on its 

664
00:37:44,900 --> 00:37:47,600
CO2 Supply, what do you 
prioritize? 

665
00:37:47,900 --> 00:37:51,500
Our I should say, we as in our 
concrete producer Partners, 

666
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,900
we're at the, you know, these 
200 plants and growing are 

667
00:37:54,900 --> 00:38:00,900
prioritizing lowest cost and 
most reliable, especially source

668
00:38:00,900 --> 00:38:04,800
of CO2 and not CO2. 
Today is supplied from the 

669
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:11,100
emissions of Industries, like 
ammonia ethanol refineries And 

670
00:38:11,100 --> 00:38:14,200
companies are in the business of
capturing that CO2 from this 

671
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:16,900
BlueStacks and distributing it 
to different Industries. 

672
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:21,700
Now, including concrete, if 
things like DAC were to become 

673
00:38:21,700 --> 00:38:25,400
widely available, then there's 
nothing stopping us from 

674
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:29,500
swapping one bottle to another, 
which is something that we would

675
00:38:29,500 --> 00:38:34,100
like to see, but we're not going
to wait around and also create 

676
00:38:34,100 --> 00:38:37,500
more complexity for our business
and for our customers to use 

677
00:38:37,500 --> 00:38:39,700
DAC. 
When there's a lot of other way,

678
00:38:39,700 --> 00:38:43,800
CO2, That's available today and 
it's widely available and easy 

679
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:47,800
to get. 
So I entirely believe that 

680
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:50,900
carbon cure is a carbon rule 
solution but we focus on the 

681
00:38:50,908 --> 00:38:54,800
second half of the of the coin. 
The utilization side, our 

682
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,800
storage side and our case its 
utilization because we create 

683
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:01,600
value from the CO2 or than just 
putting it underground another 

684
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:03,300
element, I think that's 
important in. 

685
00:39:03,300 --> 00:39:05,500
All this discussion is to think 
about permanence. 

686
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:09,200
How do we differentiate between 
carbon removal solutions? 

687
00:39:09,700 --> 00:39:13,700
That create Product that is 
consumed and say 30 days. 

688
00:39:13,700 --> 00:39:17,300
Then then re released back into 
the environment that needs to be

689
00:39:17,300 --> 00:39:20,700
part of the discussion here and 
naturally, of course, scale does

690
00:39:20,700 --> 00:39:25,100
as well. 
Hmm, well, I mean, just to lay 

691
00:39:25,100 --> 00:39:30,200
out a couple things is we can 
look at where the sources of the

692
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:34,100
carbon that we might mobilize. 
And limestone is one of those 

693
00:39:34,100 --> 00:39:38,700
sources when we make the lime, 
and when Nori looks at, what are

694
00:39:38,700 --> 00:39:41,600
we trying to incentivize? 
It's the The taking carbon back 

695
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:46,000
out of the atmosphere where if 
you're mobilizing carbon, but 

696
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:49,800
then stopping it then that can't
be carbon removal. 

697
00:39:50,100 --> 00:39:52,400
Although when you're 
sequestering the carbon that 

698
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:56,500
certainly is a very important 
asset and it kind of gets to 

699
00:39:56,500 --> 00:39:58,200
this. 
Can we even think of these 

700
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:00,800
things as fungible? 
Can we think of a ton of CO2 

701
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,900
avoided because you sequestered 
it, the same as a ton of CO2 

702
00:40:03,900 --> 00:40:07,200
removed in which cases might 
they be similar? 

703
00:40:07,500 --> 00:40:10,800
And perhaps, you can convince us
that there may be Some cases 

704
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:13,700
where that is similar but it's 
almost as if carbon removal as 

705
00:40:13,700 --> 00:40:17,600
the cleanup crew. 
After the fact it's kind of like

706
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:20,100
an it's funny because you have 
carbon care in your name but an 

707
00:40:20,100 --> 00:40:22,200
ounce of prevention is worth a 
pound of cure. 

708
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,400
You know if you can stop carbon 
from getting into the atmosphere

709
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:28,300
before you need to pull it back,
that's going to save you a lot 

710
00:40:28,300 --> 00:40:31,300
of money and time in the back 
end. 

711
00:40:31,700 --> 00:40:34,800
But I just don't see how someone
can say, let me turn on a part 

712
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:37,500
carbon cure client, and this is 
going to start pulling carbon 

713
00:40:37,500 --> 00:40:40,200
back out of the atmosphere. 
Are you? 

714
00:40:40,300 --> 00:40:43,600
Going to accept Nori's narrow 
definition in that sense to say 

715
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:46,800
here, a wonderful form of carbon
sequestration but it's not 

716
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:50,900
carbon removal. 
Well I hmm I hadn't looked at it

717
00:40:50,900 --> 00:40:53,500
that way before Kristoff. 
So I'd like to think about that 

718
00:40:53,500 --> 00:40:56,100
as you're, you know, you're 
saying that the fact that we're 

719
00:40:56,100 --> 00:40:59,800
actually using cement in the 
first place which is mobilizing 

720
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:02,600
CO2 from Limestone, it just 
precludes it. 

721
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:05,700
Anything in that value chain 
from being carbon removal. 

722
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:12,300
Well it comes from what carbon 
removal can say to an emitter is

723
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:16,700
I am going to pull one 
additional ton of carbon back 

724
00:41:16,700 --> 00:41:21,500
out of the atmosphere. 
What a carbon offset can say is 

725
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:25,700
because of my existence you're 
either going to stop at on going

726
00:41:25,700 --> 00:41:28,300
to the atmosphere or I'm going 
to remove a ton from the 

727
00:41:28,300 --> 00:41:33,100
atmosphere. 
So when looking at the things to

728
00:41:33,100 --> 00:41:35,800
incentivize reducing the flow of
carbon to the atmosphere with 

729
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,500
your technology, Gee. 
It's a Wonderful carbon offset 

730
00:41:38,900 --> 00:41:41,500
and the question is, is it a 
carbon removal? 

731
00:41:41,900 --> 00:41:47,100
Can it be because you know, in 
that calcination process, you're

732
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:51,100
releasing the CO2 because that 
actually is your original 

733
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:55,000
Source. 
Super interesting point. 

734
00:41:55,100 --> 00:41:58,200
I suppose I've always looked at 
Carbon removal more, from a 

735
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:01,300
technical perspective, our 
Technology based perspective 

736
00:42:01,300 --> 00:42:05,200
thinking more of the, you know, 
the atoms and the mechanical 

737
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:10,600
component of thinking, you know,
can we physically remove CO2 

738
00:42:10,900 --> 00:42:15,600
from the air or from a stock and
then be able to permanently draw

739
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:19,000
that down into products and that
would sort of the definition 

740
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:21,400
that I was going with on Urban 
removal. 

741
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:24,600
I hadn't really thought about 
the fact that, you know, we had 

742
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:28,000
to look at this from weather 
concrete. 

743
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:31,100
The fact that the CO2 is being 
released from cement in the 

744
00:42:31,100 --> 00:42:33,500
first place to create concrete 
and then and then you're 

745
00:42:33,500 --> 00:42:36,500
applying that technology at 
that, then negates that Carbon 

746
00:42:36,500 --> 00:42:40,000
removal definition in my mind, 
it goes back to the point that 

747
00:42:40,300 --> 00:42:44,400
we need concrete to, for modern 
society to grow. 

748
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:49,700
And and it is the it is the 
product that would be essential.

749
00:42:50,300 --> 00:42:52,600
I think I'd like to give us some
more thought Christoph. 

750
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,400
I think I think is a really 
interesting point to take more 

751
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:58,600
about and sort of. 
So thanks for helping, expand my

752
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:01,500
mind, but I don't think I'm 
really ready to close the book 

753
00:43:01,500 --> 00:43:03,700
on this one yet. 
Sorry. 

754
00:43:03,700 --> 00:43:08,200
I let slip the house. 
Of Hell upon you, sorry about 

755
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:15,200
that famous just pay an ambush. 
There's no Ambush here because 

756
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:17,200
we want to make it loud and 
clear. 

757
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:19,800
We love what carbon care is 
doing and think it's a very 

758
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:23,500
important technology to have in 
the suite of tools that Humanity

759
00:43:23,500 --> 00:43:26,700
needs to avoid climate change 
period paragraph. 

760
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:32,000
The question is, can a field 
that by definition is about 

761
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:35,900
taking carbon out of the 
atmosphere include something? 

762
00:43:36,300 --> 00:43:41,300
Also on the front end is still 
releasing it and even if we 

763
00:43:41,300 --> 00:43:43,700
recognize we're going to be 
using concrete. 

764
00:43:43,700 --> 00:43:46,400
And what you're doing is better 
than a baseline that is 

765
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:49,800
absolutely producing something 
which can be financialized in a 

766
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:52,900
carbon offset. 
And the question for Nori in a 

767
00:43:52,900 --> 00:43:56,000
narrow. 
Definition of carbon removal 

768
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:59,400
that this is an avoidance of CO2
to the atmosphere. 

769
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:03,600
That is really important but 
isn't carbon removal because it 

770
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:06,800
hasn't gone to take it back out.
Out. 

771
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:09,600
So good point. 
I was like, there is both a 

772
00:44:09,607 --> 00:44:12,700
sequestration like, a 
mineralization, however, we want

773
00:44:12,700 --> 00:44:15,100
to call it element and an 
avoided element. 

774
00:44:15,100 --> 00:44:17,600
So there are two a zooms 
applying here. 

775
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:20,800
I think that's worthwhile noting
but, you know, outside of 

776
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:25,600
biological systems trees. 
What slaps like, what is an 

777
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:27,900
engineered solution for 
Carpenter Google? 

778
00:44:28,500 --> 00:44:32,000
If we're using that, that 
definition, like it's, it's not 

779
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:35,700
fueled, that's for sure. 
And like I can't think of any 

780
00:44:35,700 --> 00:44:40,000
other A commodity products that 
we can be using CO2 and we're 

781
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:43,700
that that works, but I'd really 
like to continue the 

782
00:44:43,700 --> 00:44:46,100
conversation, okay? 
I think this is a really 

783
00:44:46,100 --> 00:44:50,500
interesting way of looking at at
lcas and our world. 

784
00:44:50,500 --> 00:44:53,000
We think about things like 
environmental product 

785
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:56,300
declarations and sort of 
traditional CA counting. 

786
00:44:56,300 --> 00:44:59,200
And I'm really, really 
appreciate that. 

787
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:02,100
Yeah, I think it's very 
interesting conversation. 

788
00:45:02,100 --> 00:45:04,200
I'm sure there's more to say 
about it too. 

789
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:07,700
I'll leave it to you guys, too. 
Tin you that another time. 

790
00:45:08,500 --> 00:45:12,400
But Rob one question I have 
about this is depending on how 

791
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:15,900
your sourcing, the CO2 that 
you're using, assuming it's 

792
00:45:15,900 --> 00:45:19,500
coming out of like a flu stack 
or you're capturing at a power 

793
00:45:19,500 --> 00:45:22,200
plant or some manufacturing 
facility and feeding it back in.

794
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:25,700
I sort of think about this in 
the way where when various 

795
00:45:25,700 --> 00:45:28,600
States Tax cigarettes, you 
wonder like does the state 

796
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:31,600
actually want people to stop 
smoking because they're taxing 

797
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:34,800
it and they're probably having 
Revenue come in from it. 

798
00:45:35,100 --> 00:45:36,900
So what is it? 
What is the Ship with If you're 

799
00:45:36,900 --> 00:45:40,400
sort of dependent upon emitters,
does this sort of business have 

800
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:42,800
an inherent type of shelf life 
or do you think at some point 

801
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:45,100
you would just switch to 
sourcing from direct are 

802
00:45:45,100 --> 00:45:46,800
capture? 
Are you thinking about that? 

803
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:49,800
Yeah. 
So our point is being agnostic. 

804
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:53,200
In fact, we don't even buy the 
CO2 ourselves and that's the 

805
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:57,000
responsibility of our producer 
partners that adopt the 

806
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:00,600
technology and Source. 
CO2, and as I said before, like 

807
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:04,300
CO2 today is available from 
other large emitters from stocks

808
00:46:04,300 --> 00:46:07,700
and that CO2 is then supplied. 
Applied to the concrete 

809
00:46:07,700 --> 00:46:11,500
production site to be consumed 
ideally sooner than later. 

810
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:16,000
Then the CO2 from these emission
sources begins to dissipate and 

811
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:19,800
potentially with different forms
of energy based emissions first.

812
00:46:20,100 --> 00:46:23,000
But as long as there will be 
concrete, there will always be 

813
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:27,700
cement and cement can never 
decarbonise that calcination 

814
00:46:27,700 --> 00:46:29,900
reaction on three process 
changes. 

815
00:46:30,300 --> 00:46:33,500
It does it but it is conducive 
to see you to capture. 

816
00:46:33,500 --> 00:46:37,700
So there will always be that. 
Mmm And Source from an 

817
00:46:37,700 --> 00:46:41,300
industrial emitter, and then 
there's likely to be other 

818
00:46:41,300 --> 00:46:43,100
industrial emission sources as 
well. 

819
00:46:43,900 --> 00:46:48,200
I should say that direct air 
capture is an entirely good 

820
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:50,400
option. 
It's not an option that we have 

821
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:55,000
available to us today, and I 
clearly has a lot of benefits 

822
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:56,800
when it becomes available 
online. 

823
00:46:57,200 --> 00:47:00,100
And when that happens, I think 
that, you know, we could be in a

824
00:47:00,107 --> 00:47:04,000
different supply and demand type
of a situation where maybe a lot

825
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:08,200
of the other sources of CO2. 
We are starting to diminish and 

826
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:11,100
Supply going down. 
Is that the demand from 

827
00:47:11,100 --> 00:47:13,000
Solutions? 
Like carbon care will continue 

828
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:17,500
to rise and maybe the price of 
CO2 from large emitters will 

829
00:47:17,500 --> 00:47:21,900
exceed director Contra Supply. 
And at that point, I think that 

830
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:25,700
that would be an ideal time for 
our concrete producers to be 

831
00:47:25,700 --> 00:47:29,000
able to Source CO2 from DC. 
Yeah. 

832
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:31,800
What a role that would be what's
going on in the industry as a 

833
00:47:31,808 --> 00:47:33,100
whole. 
Maybe we should start wrapping 

834
00:47:33,100 --> 00:47:36,900
it up and zooming out a little 
bit Rob but do Feel like you 

835
00:47:36,900 --> 00:47:39,400
have a competitors and you're in
good company. 

836
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:42,400
Are you just out there on the 
frontier, in the fringes here? 

837
00:47:42,700 --> 00:47:45,200
Making this happen on your 
lonesome, what's it like? 

838
00:47:46,300 --> 00:47:49,000
Well, you should pay attention 
to things like carbon X prize. 

839
00:47:49,100 --> 00:47:52,500
There's also a competition that 
just wrapped up called the CRA 

840
00:47:52,500 --> 00:47:55,300
emission reduction, Alberta 
Grand carbon challenge. 

841
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:58,600
So these are multi-year. 
Multi-million dollar prize 

842
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:02,000
competitions, where they 
accelerate the best and 

843
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:06,000
brightest in in CO2 utilization 
Solutions. 

844
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:09,200
Many of them are based in 
concrete and cement. 

845
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:12,900
So there's quite a few really 
great companies in the area. 

846
00:48:13,100 --> 00:48:15,100
They all have their different 
flavor. 

847
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:19,400
Some are changing the chemistry 
of cement and some are looking 

848
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:23,500
at other components of concrete 
like Aggregates or segments, 

849
00:48:23,500 --> 00:48:25,600
like masonry. 
So, there's a lot going on, 

850
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:28,200
there's a lot of investment. 
And then, of course, there's all

851
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:31,300
of our cousins who are turning 
CO2 into different kinds of 

852
00:48:31,308 --> 00:48:35,200
products, like, Plastics, and 
fuels, and chemicals, and so on.

853
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:37,500
So I would say It's very 
vibrant. 

854
00:48:37,500 --> 00:48:39,600
There's a lot of growth and 
investment going into this 

855
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:42,100
space. 
The same time, I would say that 

856
00:48:42,100 --> 00:48:47,200
carbon cure is by far the most 
advanced and commercially and 

857
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:49,400
are continuing to build out with
new Innovations. 

858
00:48:49,500 --> 00:48:54,000
So, I don't believe that there's
anyone else in the space that 

859
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:56,400
has nearly the amount of 
deployment, as I mentioned, 

860
00:48:56,400 --> 00:49:00,100
over, 200 plants, but that 
doesn't mean there's not room 

861
00:49:00,100 --> 00:49:01,900
for a lot of other Solutions 
here. 

862
00:49:01,900 --> 00:49:05,100
Like this is a very, very big 
problem and we want to see a lot

863
00:49:05,100 --> 00:49:08,100
more solutions. 
Coming into the space, because 

864
00:49:08,100 --> 00:49:11,600
most of them are very compatible
with one, another, that's great.

865
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:14,300
And if someone wanted to keep in
touch with you, and what carbon 

866
00:49:14,300 --> 00:49:16,800
care is doing, what's a good way
for them to do so, Rob? 

867
00:49:17,300 --> 00:49:20,900
Well come visit us in Halifax 
Nova Scotia but barring that 

868
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:23,000
there's lots of ways to interact
with us online. 

869
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:27,500
And, you know, certainly our 
website gives you a portal into 

870
00:49:27,500 --> 00:49:30,800
different ways that would be 
also follow us on LinkedIn and 

871
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:32,700
Twitter or some other good 
channels. 

872
00:49:33,300 --> 00:49:37,900
So please stay in touch and if 
You are interested in what our 

873
00:49:37,900 --> 00:49:42,200
policies or construction or even
using the technology itself as 

874
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:43,800
we absolutely want to hear from 
you. 

875
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:48,500
And please reach out because we 
need to expand our Partnerships 

876
00:49:48,500 --> 00:49:51,900
to be able to reach that. 
As you mentioned, audacious 

877
00:49:51,900 --> 00:49:55,600
climate goal, but it's entirely 
doable if we work together and 

878
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:57,500
links to all of those things are
in the show notes. 

879
00:49:57,500 --> 00:50:00,300
If you're out there listening 
and want to stay in touch 

880
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:03,100
Kristoff, anything burning 
inside of you, you want to say 

881
00:50:03,100 --> 00:50:06,800
before we sign off, No, this is 
a really fun episode. 

882
00:50:06,900 --> 00:50:11,000
I want to maybe give you a final
question that I've been want to 

883
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:13,700
ask on this podcast, which is 
Rob. 

884
00:50:13,700 --> 00:50:17,400
You have a magic wand in your 
hand and you wave it. 

885
00:50:17,900 --> 00:50:21,500
What has come true so that your 
vision is a reality. 

886
00:50:22,300 --> 00:50:26,000
What could come true? 
Now, let's just assume that your

887
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:28,900
technology is now reducing half 
a billion. 

888
00:50:28,900 --> 00:50:32,100
Tons of CO2 per year. 
What are the elements that has 

889
00:50:32,100 --> 00:50:34,200
come true? 
Because that's a real. 

890
00:50:34,300 --> 00:50:36,800
Reality. 
Okay, I love the question. 

891
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:40,500
I want to make sure I get it 
right, so you're saying for us 

892
00:50:40,500 --> 00:50:43,500
to achieve that goal, what would
have had to have happen? 

893
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:46,100
Correct. 
I'll start off by saying, I 

894
00:50:46,100 --> 00:50:48,700
don't think we're going to get 
there from a time frame. 

895
00:50:48,700 --> 00:50:51,400
That's relevant by just organic 
growth alone. 

896
00:50:51,500 --> 00:50:57,000
So just the type of sales growth
albeit relatively fast. 

897
00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:59,300
As I don't, I don't think is 
adequate. 

898
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:03,900
I think some of the two key 
things that need to happen. 

899
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:09,800
One is procurement policies to 
be able to drive faster Market 

900
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:12,900
shift. 
Second thing is, I believe that 

901
00:51:12,900 --> 00:51:15,600
there are other financial 
instruments which can play a 

902
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:19,300
role at least temporarily and 
accelerating this change. 

903
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:23,200
And that's where I believe that 
the sort of carbon Finance our 

904
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:28,500
offset space can play an 
enormous role in accelerating, 

905
00:51:28,500 --> 00:51:31,100
the change with another type of 
a market mechanism. 

906
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:35,100
And that can be one as well that
can be applied globally, where 

907
00:51:35,100 --> 00:51:39,000
perhaps the type of policies 
that we would be looking for are

908
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:43,500
not past, but I just don't 
believe that having just 

909
00:51:43,500 --> 00:51:48,300
economics and good. 
Technology are necessarily going

910
00:51:48,300 --> 00:51:51,400
to be enough to get us there in 
the time scale that matters 

911
00:51:52,300 --> 00:51:56,500
that's a great answer and it has
the right notes of optimism and 

912
00:51:56,500 --> 00:52:01,400
realism well it can be done. 
I know it and thank you guys. 

913
00:52:01,500 --> 00:52:05,500
So much for this podcast, I 
listen to it whenever I take out

914
00:52:05,500 --> 00:52:09,000
the dog for a walk and I've got 
there all the episodes now. 

915
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:12,000
So you guys need to start making
more of them faster so that 

916
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:15,300
people like me and continue to 
be inspired by these these great

917
00:52:15,300 --> 00:52:18,300
insights that you bring. 
Wow, I didn't realize you'd 

918
00:52:18,300 --> 00:52:21,900
listen to that much. 
That's just dozens, maybe 100 

919
00:52:21,900 --> 00:52:25,300
hours of us doing this. 
So, you know, I was pretty well,

920
00:52:25,300 --> 00:52:28,900
it sounds like, yeah, I love it.
Thank you very much. 

921
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:30,900
Yeah, thanks for being here, 
Rob. 

922
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:34,100
If you'd like to Please rate and
review us on iTunes or a podcast

923
00:52:34,100 --> 00:52:36,200
Stitcher. 
I think pod Bean if you listen 

924
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:37,600
on. 
There is also doing reviews. 

925
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:44,500
Thank you so much for listening 
and thank you so much for 

926
00:52:44,500 --> 00:52:46,300
listening. 
If you like the show, please 

927
00:52:46,300 --> 00:52:48,900
rate and review it in apple 
podcast and or Stitcher. 

928
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:51,700
It really helps us a lot to get 
this content to a wider 

929
00:52:51,700 --> 00:52:53,400
audience. 
If you think what we're doing is

930
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:56,400
useful, interesting fun. 
Hopefully, all three, we 

931
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:57,900
certainly appreciate your rating
and review. 

932
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:00,800
You can keep up with Nori at nor
e.com, where there is a 

933
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:03,200
newsletter that Is Nori 
.com/srobiyt. 

934
00:53:03,300 --> 00:53:06,100
There's podcast there's a whole 
bunch else or you can send us an

935
00:53:06,100 --> 00:53:10,300
email at podcast at nor e.com. 
We are also now on patreon at 

936
00:53:10,300 --> 00:53:13,800
patreon.com slash Nori podcasts,
if you'd like more content 

937
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:16,500
engagement and community and 
thank you so much for your 

938
00:53:16,500 --> 00:53:17,100
support.