1 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:17,760 Hello, this is Eva. And you're listening to the In 2 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:20,120 Between Tech and Trust podcast right now. 3 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:22,640 There is a global race on the way, as you all might know. 4 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:27,320 And we all ask ourselves, well, who is it going to be? 5 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:31,200 And also how is it going to turn out on a global scale? 6 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:34,440 And most of the European conversation about it is 7 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:38,000 happening at a significant remove from what is actually on 8 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:40,280 the ground and feasible in China. 9 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:43,680 And so I'm particularly intrigued that this week's guest 10 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:45,160 is one of the. A few people. 11 00:00:45,160 --> 00:00:49,600 In a position to actually help us understand of what's going on 12 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:53,160 and also look into the gap of knowledge that we might have. 13 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:57,520 And so Vincent Xiang is the founder of China AI Connect. 14 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:01,520 He's based out of Europe, but he's someone who works daily 15 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:05,440 between Chinese AI founders and European investors. 16 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:09,840 And in his role, he's advising both sides on what the other is 17 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:14,760 actually doing and what they might also get wrong about each 18 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:16,840 other, what they might benefit from each other. 19 00:01:16,960 --> 00:01:22,560 And so in our conversation, we get deep into whether China's AI 20 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:26,840 deployment is genuinely A surveillance dystopia, whether 21 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:31,120 that Labels has more about Western assumptions than Chinese 22 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:33,520 reality. And we also talk about what 23 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:38,720 European companies and investors are misreading about the Chinese 24 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:42,240 AI landscape and what it means that the world is currently 25 00:01:42,320 --> 00:01:46,880 splitting into distinct and possibly well maybe permanent AI 26 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:50,040 blocks, which we're currently not quite sure about and which 27 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:54,840 we'll definitely need some follow up and seeing whether or 28 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:57,640 where it's headed. The question underneath for me 29 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:00,920 was a significant one because in a global. 30 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:06,000 AI arms race Can we actually? Trust between the ecosystems 31 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:11,200 that we build and or is managing the gap a realistic ambition 32 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:16,520 overall? Welcome, Vincent, and I'm so 33 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:19,760 happy to have you on the In Between Tech and Trust podcast. 34 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:22,160 Thank you, Eva, it's a pleasure to be here and thank you for 35 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:24,560 inviting me. I was really looking forward to 36 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:28,600 our conversation because you're one of the experts to talk all 37 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:32,600 the happenings that we can refer to when it comes to tech in 38 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:38,040 China most of all, and also, you know, bridging the technological 39 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:41,480 progress between Europe and China overall. 40 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:45,000 And when you think about the intersection of technology and 41 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:48,000 trust, what is the very first thing that comes to your mind, 42 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:52,560 particularly from a perspective of working between China and the 43 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:56,200 global AI ecosystem? I think this is a really good 44 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:59,120 start for the conversation. So the first word coming to my 45 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:02,200 mind is actually difference. So let me explain a bit more. 46 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:06,320 So as you said, I working in between the two ecosystems, 47 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:09,560 China and Europe. I often think that technology 48 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:13,680 and trust is understood across China and Europe very 49 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:15,520 differently. In China, for example, when we 50 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:18,520 launch a new product and new services, people can ask how 51 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:20,840 does this going to change our lives? 52 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:22,920 How does it this going to improve our lives? 53 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:25,280 Will you save time? We need to improve our quality 54 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:27,160 of living. So when they think that the 55 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:30,800 answer is yes, they are willing to try it and then over time the 56 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,600 trust will build, right? If you look at Alipay and WeChat 57 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:37,160 Pay, together they are serving 1.8 billion accounts in China. 58 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:39,400 People use it for every cent network payment, for 59 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:41,480 transportation, for online working, etcetera. 60 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:45,240 So they are more willing to use and taste and new ideas and new 61 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:49,320 products In China, when I look at Europe, it's often very 62 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:51,000 different. So the first question people 63 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,160 often ask is, so where is a guardrail, right? 64 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:57,560 Is that safe for my data, where my data is going to be stored, 65 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:00,520 how it's going to be collected? So there's more cautious number 66 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:03,080 caution when it comes to like trying new technology. 67 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:06,920 And so this is coming more from the different kind of history 68 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:10,000 and different value and that actually shapes how AI is 69 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:15,160 regulated, how AI is adopted, how AI is used across China and 70 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:18,680 Europe. And now you've founded the AI 71 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:23,520 Connect, and that means that you're building an understanding 72 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:27,560 across systems and cultures, but also across stakeholders. 73 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:31,360 And it will be interesting for me to know what motivated you 74 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:36,560 personally to step into this. Also themely fitting in between 75 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:38,440 space. Yeah, wonderful. 76 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:41,720 I started a China AI Connect around six months ago. 77 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:46,920 First of all, I think AI in China, AI in Europe is a great 78 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:49,280 kind of topic, right? People are so interested to know 79 00:04:49,280 --> 00:04:52,400 what is happening there, across Europe, across China. 80 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:55,520 I work with some founders in China to help them understand 81 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:59,960 the EU market and also work with European investors and 82 00:04:59,960 --> 00:05:03,000 corporates to help them understand whether China AI is 83 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:05,880 relevant to their strategy to the business and whether 84 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:08,680 specific Chinese companies invest and compliant. 85 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:11,560 So I worked with people from both sides and I realized that, 86 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,600 you know, it's interesting that the the small people, often they 87 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,200 don't understand each other. There's like, you know, general 88 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:20,520 gap between Europe and China, how they perceive, how they 89 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:23,840 like, interpret, trust, interpret AI and technology. 90 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:27,640 So that is actually the reason I want to start China AI Connect. 91 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:31,240 So my role is actually a translator and a connector. 92 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,960 I translate reality to make sure people understand what is 93 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:39,120 happening, what is hype, what is real traction in the market and 94 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:42,120 also help them validate the assumptions regarding 95 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:44,240 partnership, regarding investment. 96 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:48,640 And also when there is unreal intent to engage deeper, I 97 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:51,280 connect the two parts together. So I also organize, for example, 98 00:05:51,280 --> 00:05:54,480 some trips to bring the European executives to China so that they 99 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:58,000 can meet the founders and operators on the ground. 100 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:02,040 And now when you translate realities and also when you 101 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:05,440 build bridges, so to say, and when you follow along the 102 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:09,360 Western debates that are happening right now, trust and 103 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:14,080 tech is most of the time framed around individual rights or also 104 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:17,560 skepticism, as you pointed out, sometimes also the regulation 105 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,360 aspects. How is trust and technology 106 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:24,320 understood in China? I think I think in China that 107 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:28,360 fast technology is much less about individual rights, but 108 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:31,640 more about, you know, whether this is a working to improve my 109 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:34,400 life or to improve the life collectively. 110 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:37,880 As I also hinted earlier, when when we have a new product or 111 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:40,400 new kind of technology, people often ask question, you know, 112 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:44,480 whether this is going to help the city be safer, help our life 113 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:47,040 be better. Does it really reduce the time 114 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:51,720 So when they are when they're convinced that this is you're 115 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:55,200 working and you have the trust which is built quickly. 116 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:59,000 So one example is Alipay. We all know Alipay many years 117 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:01,520 ago when Alibaba started the business, the e-commerce 118 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:05,280 business, at that time people didn't trust the strangers. 119 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:08,360 They don't want to know pay to online seller before they 120 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:11,040 receive the goods. But then Alibaba introduced this 121 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:14,680 escrow system. So basically the sellers only 122 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:18,280 get the get the money when the consumers confirm that they have 123 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:20,720 received the goods. So people don't really trust the 124 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:23,400 strangers, but it's fasten the system they trust that, you 125 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:27,040 know, this a system that is reliable, that is networking, 126 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:30,560 that is improving our lives so that we can buy sense online at 127 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:32,840 a cheap cost. We can get the goods delivered 128 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:34,760 on time. So that is actually, you know, 129 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:38,520 when we how we approach the new technology in China. 130 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:41,560 And then using the same logic in many other areas like red 131 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:44,160 hailing, the food delivery healthcare apps. 132 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:47,440 But if you compare that with with Europe, right, where people 133 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:49,960 often, you know, want to transparency and safeguards 134 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:52,440 first before they're willing to to trust. 135 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:54,800 So in China, we often like to pay more your attention on 136 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:59,080 experience, if the experience is is OK, is reliable, is like 137 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:02,560 trustworthy and the adoption and the trust follow suit 138 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:05,200 afterwards. What you know described was 139 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:09,600 quite from the business perspective, but from also your 140 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:14,160 experiences and the involvement that you have other differences 141 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:19,800 on the cultural, historical and also on a societal level, which 142 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:24,000 might vary kind of a bit because there are also so many nuances 143 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:26,000 to it. Yeah, exactly. 144 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:28,800 China is a big country, so there's a lot of nuances. 145 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:31,560 So, you know, my generation, especially my parents 146 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:34,640 generation, so people in China were living in poverty. 147 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:38,039 And my generation, we have seen that, you know, the economy has 148 00:08:38,039 --> 00:08:41,799 been developing so fast and we have eradicated extreme poverty. 149 00:08:41,799 --> 00:08:44,280 And there are so many like middle class people now in 150 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:47,080 China. So when we grew up in poverty 151 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:50,360 and then see the society has been transformed to still 152 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:53,880 technologies to a larger scale, kind of, you know, factories 153 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:56,840 kind of solutions. We have a tendency to believe 154 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:00,520 that the larger scale kind of solution or infrastructure is 155 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:02,120 working. And that is why I think, you 156 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:04,640 know, in my generation, people are more willing to try 157 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:06,360 nuisance. They are more willing to 158 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:08,960 actually accept or embrace new technology. 159 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:12,080 And then that is the axe. That is a cultural part, right? 160 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:14,800 Compared with, you know, other societies, I think Chinese 161 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:17,720 people, we are more willing to open and to new technologies. 162 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:20,600 If you look at society, I think definitely there's a difference 163 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:23,000 because, you know, China is so big and so diverse. 164 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:27,120 When you go to cities like Shanghai, Shenzhen, hear those 165 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,400 people talking about, you know, robotaxis and autonomous driving 166 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:33,000 and the AI models. But when you go to rural cities 167 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:35,720 like the third tier cities, people are so happy when they 168 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:39,920 can pay online with their phone rather than going to the banks, 169 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:42,640 right? So there's definitely the 170 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:46,800 progress is distributed unevenly in China, but overall people are 171 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:50,040 more winning and more open to accepting new technologies. 172 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:53,560 And now you've described a bit the different kinds of societal 173 00:09:53,560 --> 00:09:58,160 approaches and also adoptions to technology overall in China. 174 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:02,360 But where do you see the biggest cultural mismatches? 175 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:07,400 When Western companies try to interpret, use or also 176 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:13,640 incorporate Chinese AI strategy and progresses and the other way 177 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,840 around as well. I, I think actually the, I think 178 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:20,320 the biggest cultural mismatch is also coming from the first 179 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:23,120 question we ask ourselves. In Europe, the first question is 180 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:26,680 often about, is this legitimate? Is it, you know, safe? 181 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:28,800 Does it respect individual rights? 182 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,680 But in China, the first question is often more about, you know, 183 00:10:31,680 --> 00:10:33,960 does it work? Does it improve efficiency? 184 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:37,040 Does it help the system run better because of that? 185 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:41,520 And the Western companies often take look at Chinese AI systems 186 00:10:41,560 --> 00:10:46,120 and see many as a way of control or a demonstration of power. 187 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:50,080 I think that perspective actually means how much of the 188 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:53,600 focus is actually on productivity, on logistics, on 189 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,240 healthcare and economic upgrading. 190 00:10:56,360 --> 00:11:00,240 Speed and iteration are seen as very positive in China. 191 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:03,240 On the other side, I also seen that Chinese companies often 192 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:06,360 misunderstood European companies in opposite way. 193 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:10,080 They they think that regulation in Europe is, is slow, is 194 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:11,960 inefficient. So many founders ask me, you 195 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:14,680 know, why it's so hard to get a license in Europe, but why it's 196 00:11:14,680 --> 00:11:16,640 so hard? Why the consumers worry so much 197 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:19,520 about data sharing, Right. And I tell them that in Europe, 198 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:22,600 individual rights and the accountability is actually the 199 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,200 better of trust. So you have to be really 200 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:26,920 insured. That is, you know, understood 201 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:30,760 properly before you think about scaling to, to Europe. 202 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:33,400 When the two sides have this kind of misunderstanding, it's 203 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:37,080 harder for them to to, to build trust, to build relationship. 204 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:40,320 So I always talk with the two sides, say that you need to 205 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:44,040 understand the nuances and the differences, and then the trust 206 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:46,480 and the relationship will form more naturally. 207 00:11:46,560 --> 00:11:51,600 And now when we look at the closer into the way that a like 208 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:59,200 China also approaches AI and within China, there's also most 209 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:02,880 of the time the portrait of AI being a superpower. 210 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:08,120 And it would be nice to understand from your experience 211 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:13,320 if that state is also sometimes being perceived as maybe a 212 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:19,440 surveillance dystopia, and if So, what the actual current 213 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:22,200 status and if this is really accurate. 214 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:24,000 Yeah, that's interesting. Eva. 215 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:28,440 I I think both labels right AI superpower and the surveillance 216 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:31,600 dystopia are a bit over overly simplified. 217 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:35,560 From what I've what I've seen on the ground, China's AI landscape 218 00:12:35,560 --> 00:12:39,960 is very strong in application and in deployment, but are more 219 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:42,280 constrained in in the foundations. 220 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:46,760 And what I mean is that China is extremely good at deploying AI 221 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:49,880 in real world settings at scale. You often see that AI in 222 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:53,640 payments where fraud detection runs on massive scale. 223 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:57,960 You see AI in manufacturing where AI is now used for quality 224 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:00,920 control or for predictive maintenance. 225 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:03,960 At the same time, Chinese also depended on the foreign 226 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:06,920 technologies, especially from the US, like advanced 227 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:09,960 semiconductor chips for NVIDIA, high end manufacturing 228 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:12,040 equipment. So this carries no real 229 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:14,960 bottleneck. So China is powerful in using 230 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:18,040 and deploying AI, but more constraint in the critical 231 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:21,280 hardware and technology that, you know, shows you where China 232 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:23,920 is today in terms of AI deployment. 233 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:27,120 We are catching up very fast. We are developing very fast, but 234 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:30,560 there's always some critical dependency on the US technology. 235 00:13:31,560 --> 00:13:34,520 You mentioned the surveillance dystopia. 236 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,400 This is interesting. I, I think on the surveillance 237 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,280 question, my personal experience is, is interesting. 238 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:42,320 I, I live in Germany for seven years. 239 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:45,560 I have many German friends. And when they visit China, 240 00:13:45,560 --> 00:13:47,720 right, they notice that, you know, there are cameras 241 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:50,880 everywhere in cities like, you know, Shanghai and Hangzhou. 242 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:54,640 They would expect that people to feel like uncomfortable because 243 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:57,800 there's their cameras, maybe they feel being monitored, but 244 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:01,600 they notice that, hey, people don't really notice that camera 245 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:03,680 is there and they live the normal lives. 246 00:14:03,680 --> 00:14:06,760 And they talk more about, you know, what, how the, the 247 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:10,600 congestion is reduced, how the accident has been prevented, how 248 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:14,440 that improves people's safety. The, the, the, the city's net 249 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:18,640 efficiency for local people. These systems are experienced 250 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:22,480 more as infrastructure, not as the political tools, right? 251 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:26,280 So, so of course, like there are also some concerns in terms of 252 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:29,400 that, you know, there are some reports showing that some data 253 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:33,000 leak may happen. So facial recognition has been 254 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:35,480 misused. So some companies also have 255 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:37,760 collected more data than they should. 256 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:40,840 So people have concerns. They also complain online and 257 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:44,280 yes and no source as well. You highlighted and you dove 258 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:49,000 with us into the current state. Do you have any hints on where 259 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:53,000 it's headed in the future? Yeah, I think, I think AI is 260 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:55,880 developing very fast now in China and that you have seen so 261 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:59,080 many progresses and so many experimentations and pilots in 262 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,920 the past. Now I think it's very clear that 263 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:07,400 the society were the progress isn't moving away from a phase 264 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:11,640 of experimentation or pilot into a phase of no fast and larger 265 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:15,280 scale real AI deployments. So, so now the question would be 266 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:19,000 how we actually turn AI into stable product across the 267 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,360 economy, how we actually monetize our solutions, right. 268 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:25,600 It's not just about, you know, investing into some R&D, but 269 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:27,800 more about how to actually make money with with AI. 270 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:31,680 And you see this in national strategies like the AI 2030. 271 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:36,080 China aims to become a leading AI technology provider by 20-30. 272 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:40,160 And there's a broader AI Plus initiative which aims to push AI 273 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:44,560 adoption to more than 90% across the major industries. 274 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:47,840 So it's about embedding AI, you know, deeply into the economy 275 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:50,880 and people's and daily lives. At the same time, regulation is 276 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:53,920 also tightening. We have aligned some basic AI 277 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:57,920 laws, but China now is also drafting more comprehensive AI 278 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:02,160 regulation, especially around generative AI data security and 279 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:04,560 safety reviews. So the message is quite clear, 280 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,800 you can innovate in China, but within certain boundaries. 281 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:12,240 And the next phase is not really about a piloting or showcasing 282 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:14,280 your capability. It's more about how to actually, 283 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:17,280 you know, use AI, leverage AI to improve our lives and how to 284 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:20,400 actually monetize the solutions. I think it's quite fascinating 285 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:24,920 how you talked about the way that it's supposed and you also 286 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:28,280 talked about the way of how it's more about the implementation 287 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:30,960 part and like really getting the value out of AI. 288 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:36,720 What role does trust play in China particularly and also in 289 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:41,120 terms of its rapid AI adoption? I think, yeah, any kind of 290 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:45,400 market and we want to transform a lot of industries. 291 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:48,680 I think the trust is one of the most important and most 292 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:51,800 underestimated kind of reasons. The one as spreads so fast in 293 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:54,720 China people often talk about population size right? 294 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:57,400 The market demand, the government of power, etc. 295 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:00,040 Or engineering talent. All of that matters. 296 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,760 But without fast nothing will really work. 297 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:05,760 Especially in technology from what I've seen. 298 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:08,560 I think it's faster place to 2 main roles. 299 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:10,720 The first is that it reduces friction. 300 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:14,000 A new system is introduced. People usually start with simple 301 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:16,520 questions like does it really make my life easier? 302 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:19,680 2nd and the tries to speed up adoption because people are 303 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:21,960 willing to try it. When you when you see that it's 304 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:27,280 working reliably, it improve the lives collectively, then you 305 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:29,640 seen adoption speed up quickly, right? 306 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:34,800 So definitely this kind of fast adoption are based on trust, how 307 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,800 people people are feel, whether people feel comfortable enough 308 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:42,480 to use it on a daily basis. Are there any differences when 309 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:48,280 it comes to trust in terms of also trusting into institutions 310 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:50,680 or in the platforms? You've now mentioned several 311 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:55,360 ones that are based out of China or in state coordination that 312 00:17:55,360 --> 00:17:59,960 sometimes also are being perceived as quiet, you know, 313 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,960 based on heritage in China or so to say. 314 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:04,760 Same, Yeah. I think definitely there are 315 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:08,040 some differences among the different layers, right? 316 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:10,680 You mentioned institutions and platforms and governments. 317 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:13,720 Now from what I see on the ground, I feel like in a trust 318 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:16,920 is built through the three layers which are more 319 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:19,880 coordinated and connected, right, The government platforms 320 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:22,240 and the institutions. First the government says the 321 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:25,480 direction, right? And they tell the the market, 322 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:29,920 hey, the AI is a priority. They also mobilize the foundings 323 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:33,560 to support the early movers, the startups and those kind of early 324 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:36,960 companies and to develop the technology. 325 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,320 And they also sometimes like, you know, provide really some 326 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:43,000 policy support to help them launch the product. 327 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:45,000 And then the second is a platform. 328 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:48,360 We have companies like Alibaba and Tencent, and those are 329 00:18:48,360 --> 00:18:51,920 leading tech companies. They actually turn the policy 330 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:54,160 into products. So they work together with the 331 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:57,440 regulators, with the government to actually build scalable 332 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,360 solutions for people to use. And then you have the 333 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:03,280 institutions you mentioned, which are, for example, the 334 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:06,080 hospitals, the schools, the city governments. 335 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:10,720 So these institutions, they normalize the usage, they adopt 336 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:14,000 these systems provided by the tech companies or the startups 337 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:17,320 and they, you know, also current environment that you can 338 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:20,720 actually make it easy for people to use and adopt those 339 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:23,680 technologies. So, so one good example is the 340 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:27,800 Hangzhou's and city brain, the government, they defined the 341 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:30,760 priorities, say, hey, we want to optimize the traffic management 342 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:33,600 in Hangzhou. And the Alibaba built the AI 343 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:38,120 system and the city, they adopted it as early customer. 344 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:41,960 And now people see that the commute time has been reduced, 345 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:45,400 the accident has been reduced, and the city becomes more, 346 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,000 becomes safer. So this kind of collaborative 347 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:52,200 and effort is showing that this 3 layers in China kind of like 348 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:54,520 reinforce each other. Of course, you have this kind of 349 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:57,560 structure elsewhere. But if I look at Europe, for 350 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:01,120 example, I feel like it's in my humble opinion, I feel like 351 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:04,560 these layers are more separated because they think about, you 352 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:06,240 know, individual rights. How's that? 353 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,600 That actually interfere with, you know, my my rights, my 354 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:11,840 privacy. So you can at some point slow 355 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:15,000 down the coordination. And you highlighted now some of 356 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:19,600 the players that are like super present in the Chinese market. 357 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:23,240 And I think what we can derive and it's independent of the 358 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:26,240 Chinese market, but we can see it on a global scale as well 359 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:32,080 that there is a fragmented tech stack and there are also sort of 360 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:37,120 fragmented kind of approaches to regulations or AI enormous. 361 00:20:37,120 --> 00:20:41,800 How do you like perceive Chinese players of how they look into 362 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,560 this? Yeah, I mean, I, I talked with 363 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,400 the founders in China. I feel like most of them, they 364 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:51,000 think that their fragmentation will be kind of like permanent 365 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:53,840 now, right. You know, 10 or 15 years ago, 366 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:56,720 many founders, many people think that, hey, we're going to have 367 00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,920 one global Internet and one set of standards, one set of, you 368 00:20:59,920 --> 00:21:03,640 know, dominant ecosystem. And the idea is actually gone 369 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:07,320 because now with also geopolitical risk, that is 370 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:10,920 regarded as the part of the normal business in reality. 371 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:13,680 Now, when I talk with some Chinese founders, especially 372 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:17,000 those that are trying to expand globally, they often also see 373 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,800 that Europe is so hard to navigate due to the 374 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,520 fragmentation. There's one rule in Germany, one 375 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:25,000 rule in France, one rule in Brussels. 376 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,760 So that is why it's complicated from their perspective. 377 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:32,160 Oftentimes they think this, this is inefficient and this is slow. 378 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:34,560 And the same time, I also see that Europe is trying to address 379 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:37,840 this, this issue, right. We, we know that the initiative 380 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:42,680 like EU Ink are meant to reduce fragmentation and to harmonize 381 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,280 the rules across European member States. 382 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:47,240 So I definitely think that's the right direction. 383 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:49,920 But in my opinion, I think realistically, I don't think 384 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:53,440 fragmentation is going to go away anytime soon, especially 385 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:54,840 AI. We are moving towards a 386 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,560 different kind of techno technological flow. 387 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:02,960 If you look at US, the market is characterized by many large 388 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:07,480 proprietary closed source models dominated by open AI or isopic. 389 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,440 And in China, the ecosystem is or it's much more open. 390 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:12,000 We have open source of framework. 391 00:22:12,120 --> 00:22:15,440 Many kind of models like Alibaba's Quinn, like Deep Sea 392 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:18,280 can, they're all open source. So different technology will 393 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,760 lead to different standards, spent business models and 394 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:23,360 different regulation. And so it's more likely that the 395 00:22:23,360 --> 00:22:26,800 whole world will diverge into different AI ecosystems in the 396 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:28,520 future. And you will continue to see the 397 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:33,040 fragmentation globally. And that is why I often advise 398 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:36,120 the founders or the executives and when they are trying to 399 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,600 expand globally. I think this should definitely 400 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:43,680 and understand very early on the differences between regulation, 401 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:45,520 you know, how fast it's been built. 402 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:50,000 And also to build a compliance early on from day one into the 403 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,560 product, the compliance that should be treated as a core 404 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,400 feature on the product rather than a legal afterthought, 405 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:55,960 right? Right. 406 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:59,360 That will save you a lot of money when you address this you 407 00:22:59,360 --> 00:23:01,920 know later. You said you talk a lot to 408 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:06,320 Chinese and startup founders and also the ecosystem that's on the 409 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:10,440 ground of how they think about AI when it becomes both an 410 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:16,080 economic engine, but then again also a geopolitic instrument 411 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:20,280 that we can see that this is also available going forward. 412 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,320 From my experience, my conversations with executives 413 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:27,760 and people close to policy in China, I'd say that Chinese 414 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:31,760 leaders are increasingly seeing AIS, strategic infrastructure. 415 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:35,280 I think the first priority is productivity and also 416 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,440 efficiency. AI is seen as a way to upgrade 417 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:42,800 manufacturing, logistics, energy and services in China, like many 418 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:44,560 other countries. And China's are facing the same 419 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:47,880 challenge in terms of, you know, rising labor costs, aging 420 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,560 population and slowing growth, right? 421 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:54,720 So leaders really look at AI as a way to maintain global 422 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,840 competitiveness without also relying too much on US 423 00:23:57,840 --> 00:23:59,480 technology. So especially due to the 424 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,400 geopolitical tension between US and China. 425 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:06,320 And there's also growing concern about using US technology. 426 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:11,520 So it's also a national priority to be technologically self 427 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,880 reliant, especially to reduce dependency on those critical 428 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:18,240 hardwares like semiconductors, you know, cloud infrastructures, 429 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,960 you know, from US. So these are all seen as a 430 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,600 strategic choke points. And now in terms of like 431 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:27,520 technology experts, I think China always want to, you know, 432 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,960 export this technology to other countries also to grow their 433 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:34,720 market share, the footprint. So exporting sense like smart 434 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:38,280 city systems, industrial automation or digital platforms. 435 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:40,480 This is not just about business, right? 436 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,840 It's also about to to have influence and to have to create 437 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,840 standards so that there's, you know, ecosystem that is working 438 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,320 together to address the global problems. 439 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:53,840 So if the technology becomes widely used abroad, the 440 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:57,200 technical norms and practices will spread together with that. 441 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,080 I think that's one of the crucial aspects that still needs 442 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,720 to be, you know, also defined and probably also unpacked 443 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:08,080 further and also monitor it if you go along the way. 444 00:25:08,120 --> 00:25:10,760 And that is one of the benefits of your role. 445 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:14,320 Because basically you're at the linchpin of also accompanying 446 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,280 that and accompanying also that together with European corporate 447 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,560 leaders and the investors that assess different kinds of 448 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:25,960 Chinese AI infrastructures. How this works of how your role 449 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:27,800 works. And also how like what 450 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:32,200 challenges you encounter when you dive into the strategy, the 451 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,760 specific Chinese opportunities with investors and the 452 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:40,240 compliance aspects of that in collaborating with the clients 453 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:42,080 or the ecosystem that you've formed? 454 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,080 So I work with both sides, both China and Europe. 455 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:49,080 So my role as a founder of China Air Connect, I help the European 456 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,320 investors and corporates evaluate whether China AI is 457 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,280 relevant to their business and to their strategy and whether a 458 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,640 specific Chinese company is investor point compliant. 459 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:02,120 On the China side, I help the founders understand the European 460 00:26:02,120 --> 00:26:06,920 market and also to help them you find the go to market strategy 461 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,000 and to help them with product scaling. 462 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,360 So I have the privilege to work with very small people from both 463 00:26:12,360 --> 00:26:15,120 sides. And as I said earlier, my role 464 00:26:15,120 --> 00:26:16,920 is more like a transmitter and connector. 465 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:20,160 So I do enjoy those kind of, you know, work to really help the 466 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,120 conversation, to help the decision making and to connect 467 00:26:23,120 --> 00:26:25,960 the two parts together. And now I do see that and 468 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,240 there's a strong growing interest about China, especially 469 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,520 after deep sick people realize that China AI is developing, 470 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,240 developing so fast and the gap between US and the China is 471 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,520 narrowing very fast. They want to understand what's 472 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:40,720 really happening in China, what's, you know, real, what's 473 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,760 the, the hype or what's like a real fraction in China. 474 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:48,400 But I think in the challenge now is, is that many European 475 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:50,360 investors are still very cautious about China. 476 00:26:50,360 --> 00:26:53,680 So they know that and there's some very fundamental kind of 477 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:57,160 challenges in terms of data transfer, right regulation, 478 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:01,000 geopolitical risks, and those are all the factors and that 479 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:02,880 often times slow down the decision. 480 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:07,200 So I, I think it's, it's no easy, it's difficult to turn 481 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,760 from, I'm interested to, I'm investing in China, I'm going to 482 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:12,360 China. So the gap is still quite big. 483 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:17,080 So my goal is actually make it easy for people to understand 484 00:27:17,120 --> 00:27:20,160 what's really happening in China and also to help them, you know, 485 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:24,000 connect with the founders and operators on the ground so that 486 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,840 they can go to China to see with their own eyes and to experience 487 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:31,080 technology by themselves, to form their own DP opinions. 488 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:35,360 And if you now look at that from particularly an individual point 489 00:27:35,360 --> 00:27:39,080 of view and those who are building products or Koreas at 490 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:43,240 exactly like the intersection of the, you know, Chinese markets 491 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,640 and the tech and products that there are, we're out there, 492 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,320 particularly when we look into the entrance of it. 493 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:55,200 Do you have any hints on what the role and like of credibility 494 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:59,960 looks like and how trust like feeds into that and also how it 495 00:28:00,120 --> 00:28:04,280 is needed to be established kind of way of entering the market in 496 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,280 itself? So once never learned from my 497 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,400 work with China's companies and European companies, I think it's 498 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:14,240 important to understand that presence matters more than brand 499 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:16,880 new when it comes to beauty relationships in China, right? 500 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,840 You know, it's a very relationship driven society. 501 00:28:21,120 --> 00:28:24,080 There's a word guanxi, which is a very popular in business 502 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,600 business setting business, you know, environments. 503 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:33,280 So you need to be committed and also to be consistent when it 504 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:36,160 comes to building relationships with with the company's 505 00:28:36,360 --> 00:28:39,040 ecosystems in China. Talking about, for example, 506 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,920 Siemens and Bosch, those German companies that have been in 507 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,880 China for decades and they have invested in factories, you know, 508 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,760 ID centers, they work with universities, they work with no 509 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,640 governments and regulators. And that is not how they build 510 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:56,760 trust and build, you know, the real connection in China, right 511 00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:00,160 through consistent presence and commitment in China. 512 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,760 So that is definitely the good way to start because I often see 513 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:08,160 that now it's important for the European companies and to embed 514 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,560 themselves into the China local ecosystem. 515 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,720 Let's book a trip to go to China to talk with the founders and 516 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:17,600 the operators and to be to visit a few factories and companies 517 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:19,920 etcetera. And then it's a much better way 518 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:23,200 to actually understand what's happening and also to spark 519 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,040 conversations about a partnership, etcetera. 520 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:29,280 And we've not talked a lot about the present, but I do want to 521 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:31,600 try to look with you in the future. 522 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:35,920 How do you see the future of AI converging or not? 523 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:40,160 And then how is it also different between China and the 524 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,040 West? I think in terms of technology, 525 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:44,800 I do see that. So there are different kind of 526 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:49,680 priorities when I when I talk with the developers in the West, 527 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:54,000 let's take example of USI think their priority is more about how 528 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:59,560 to develop the best models, how to actually have the as many, 529 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:03,600 you know, users as possible, how to actually spread and like Dr. 530 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,120 adoption. But in China, I think the focus 531 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,120 is not really about building the best model, but more about 532 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:13,320 making how to adopt AI as deeply as possible into the economy 533 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,720 across different industries. As I mentioned earlier, 30 AI 534 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:23,320 2030 aims to boost AI adoption to more than 90% across all the 535 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,840 industries, right? So we'll focus more on how to 536 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:29,240 use AI, how to deploy AI. So that is a bit different from 537 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,040 the West. And in terms of how people see 538 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,840 AI as in general, people are very, in China, people are very 539 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,400 optimistic and open to this new technology. 540 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:41,280 And I this partly because of cultural reasons, but also we 541 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:46,040 see that AI is going to be the best way to solve some issues 542 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:48,560 like aging population. You don't want to, you know, 543 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,400 rely on having more workers, but you want to make it faster and 544 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:54,880 more efficient using technology like AI, right? 545 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:59,920 And in China, because of the favourable policy and also 546 00:30:59,920 --> 00:31:02,960 reliable supply chain, I think it's very likely that we're 547 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,840 going to have the mass production of robots in the 548 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,560 coming years. That will definitely be a great 549 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:13,320 thing to to to see how that will for people's knives in different 550 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,560 industries, manufacturing, service industries and also even 551 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:18,680 people's home with human or the robots. 552 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:20,160 That's very interesting to watch. 553 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:26,520 I think the like progress in all aspects of how robotic progress 554 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:31,200 has been made is just incredible of also to follow along in the 555 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,440 Chinese market. You know, we need to follow that 556 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,040 along from a different kind of perspective, but then again, 557 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:41,040 also of how it's going to be connected to the whole area of 558 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,080 the progress that AI makes in itself. 559 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:47,040 And I think it's going to be super interesting to follow 560 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,360 along of how both of those worlds also both of those 561 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,120 developments are going to be converging. 562 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:57,040 But for now, I do want to end our conversation with the 563 00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:00,560 so-called in between moments because these are moments that I 564 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:02,840 want to have with all of my guests in the end of the 565 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:04,680 conversation that we've already had. 566 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:09,000 When it comes to the first questions that I kind of throw 567 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:12,880 out there, and it's for you particularly, what does trust 568 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,480 and technology mean when it becomes tangible? 569 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:19,520 So the trust technology becomes tangible through conversation 570 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,960 and connection. And where does China's AI 571 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:26,800 strength lie in? Definitely in scale and speed. 572 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:30,280 And how does the West differentiate towards that? 573 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:34,680 And I would say a differentiate in core technology and 574 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:38,160 governance. And the geopolitics and tech 575 00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:40,680 perspective, are they friends or first? 576 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,160 Definitely. I think you should be both right 577 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:47,400 depending. OK, I, I would love to dive into 578 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,080 that right now, but that's not how the moments work. 579 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:53,480 So I'm just going to throw right out the last question that I 580 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:57,160 have towards you and it would be one word that you have that 581 00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,880 you're currently in between. I hope I can use a sentence 582 00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:01,160 actually. I mean between. 583 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,880 I'm like building the real trusted connections between 584 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,320 China and Europe. And I think it's one of the most 585 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:09,520 relevant things that you can dive into. 586 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,200 And I'm very grateful to have had you as a guest on the 587 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,280 podcast. Thank you so much for joining us 588 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,960 and joining me on this also deep dive into the way of the 589 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,640 differences that there are on between regions. 590 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:23,600 And I hope to talk to you soon again. 591 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,280 Thank you so much, Eva. It's really fun and thank you 592 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:28,080 for having me. It's a pleasure.