1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:02,500 Hey, Rose, what are you annoyed last night? 2 00:00:02,500 --> 00:00:05,400 I was just dreaming, Austin Powers, you know, everything is 3 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:07,300 fine. If it is good and suddenly I'm 4 00:00:07,300 --> 00:00:13,200 getting after out about bacon sauce, making flowers bacon, 5 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:14,000 floors on. Yeah. 6 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:20,200 They control us like 20 times one after another Did you floss 7 00:00:20,500 --> 00:00:22,600 see? Yes, but not with bacon, I mean, 8 00:00:24,100 --> 00:00:28,400 the other ones that so who's in control of that? 9 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:32,000 I mean, who pays for that? It's a problem in the 10 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,300 advertising industry, we should ask them. 11 00:00:34,300 --> 00:00:38,000 I know a guy in media, his name is Caleb Williams. 12 00:00:48,500 --> 00:00:50,600 Welcome to loud and clear the podcast. 13 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:53,800 For those who give a shit about advertising, I am your host 14 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:57,500 Francisco Cardenas, principal of digital strategy and integration 15 00:00:57,500 --> 00:01:01,100 at Lerma in the production, we have rolled freeze we're getting 16 00:01:01,100 --> 00:01:05,200 ready to head into presidential primary elections, the Olympics 17 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:10,100 next year, the PGA Tour and live golf are merging. 18 00:01:10,100 --> 00:01:15,000 What the hell is going on in the middle of all of this CTV users, 19 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:17,100 get hit with a frequency of bats. 20 00:01:17,100 --> 00:01:20,700 That seems to be most That's if and wide. 21 00:01:20,700 --> 00:01:22,800 Why is it question and to speak about this? 22 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:25,600 We have two very special guests from miq. 23 00:01:26,300 --> 00:01:31,400 The first one is Mo to Ty and I hope I said that, right. 24 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:36,200 He's the head of advanced TV at miq where he leads a mic use 25 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:40,200 Global TV, product partnership and strategy functions having 26 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:43,000 built a business line over the last five years. 27 00:01:43,300 --> 00:01:46,300 That's commitment. He has over a decade of product 28 00:01:46,300 --> 00:01:49,500 and strategy leadership experience building and scaling 29 00:01:49,500 --> 00:01:53,000 advertising businesses and delivering, impactful products 30 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:56,900 that deliver results for agencies and marketers the 31 00:01:56,900 --> 00:02:00,300 second and a long friend of mine, kallab Williams, he's a 32 00:02:00,308 --> 00:02:03,300 results-driven media. Professional who has spent the 33 00:02:03,300 --> 00:02:07,900 majority of his 15 plus year. Career solving critical business 34 00:02:07,900 --> 00:02:10,800 challenges through the power of digital media. 35 00:02:11,100 --> 00:02:15,000 He has been recognized by his peers and clients as a trusted 36 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:18,000 advisor for premium Brands business forward through 37 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:21,600 intelligent use of A insights and media activation. 38 00:02:22,100 --> 00:02:27,000 He has been from agency side to social media platforms as almost 39 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:31,700 like startups. Today, Caleb is a current senior 40 00:02:31,700 --> 00:02:36,700 director of miq as a sales. So welcome guys. 41 00:02:36,700 --> 00:02:38,500 Did I miss anything on that introduction? 42 00:02:38,500 --> 00:02:42,500 That you would want to add? I love the intro and I was gonna 43 00:02:42,500 --> 00:02:46,500 say kill 15 years, you know, still look 25, so you're doing 44 00:02:46,500 --> 00:02:50,300 great on them. Yeah, it's weird to think of it. 45 00:02:50,300 --> 00:02:52,400 It's weird to think of it in. Francisco is good too. 46 00:02:52,408 --> 00:02:54,900 Good to be on this podcast with you after so many years. 47 00:02:54,900 --> 00:02:57,900 This is fantastic now. What a thank you for the thank 48 00:02:57,900 --> 00:03:00,900 you for the time. I know, we're all super busy and 49 00:03:01,100 --> 00:03:04,200 I am really thankful we made. We made the time to discuss this 50 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:07,100 important topic, that I think we're all talking about it. 51 00:03:07,100 --> 00:03:10,600 We're trying to figure it out. But yes, hey love. 52 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:13,900 And I went to lunch the other day and we discussed it and we 53 00:03:13,900 --> 00:03:16,300 want to just see what's happening. 54 00:03:16,300 --> 00:03:19,000 Why is it happening? And if there's any answers or 55 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:23,400 How can we guide or clients and partner up with media to fix 56 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:27,200 this? Totally, you know, it's funny 57 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:29,900 but before we get into, I don't worry we'll get into some of the 58 00:03:29,900 --> 00:03:33,800 technical kind of why this is happening and how to fix it. 59 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:36,300 But as you were talking, one thing that just came to mind, 60 00:03:36,300 --> 00:03:39,900 was even the fact that we're talking about sort of frequency, 61 00:03:39,900 --> 00:03:43,700 problem is sort of a good thing in a way because it means people 62 00:03:43,700 --> 00:03:46,400 are watching the ads and noticing the content that's in 63 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:52,100 because how many teeth Seen the same Banner ad on your phone or, 64 00:03:52,100 --> 00:03:55,000 you know, on your desktop or whatever, you probably get this 65 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:57,000 Earth. That's a tad over and over and 66 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:59,400 over again. But, you know, on TV, you 67 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:02,300 actually notice the odds, right? So the fact that you're noticing 68 00:04:02,300 --> 00:04:04,900 a frequency problem, but I should be a, you know, positive 69 00:04:04,900 --> 00:04:08,300 thing to begin with. I agree and now and I'll just 70 00:04:08,300 --> 00:04:13,700 I'll just add to that, you know, TV that, you know, fighting for 71 00:04:13,700 --> 00:04:17,000 the biggest screen in the house is something that isn't going to 72 00:04:17,007 --> 00:04:21,600 stop right. Whether it be Publishers who are 73 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:26,000 creating, you know, really expensive content and trying to 74 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:29,300 win Awards shows and then use that to leverage for subscriber 75 00:04:29,300 --> 00:04:31,600 base, right? Like they need to compete for 76 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:34,900 eyeballs whether it be a marketer who's trying to get a 77 00:04:34,900 --> 00:04:41,700 message out and you know build up their there they're following 78 00:04:41,700 --> 00:04:45,300 or new product launches or whatever I mean it's on all 79 00:04:45,300 --> 00:04:47,400 sides right? And then to your point like your 80 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:51,400 dad being a consumer, right? It just a bystander of wanting 81 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:55,100 to watch content and going men. Why does you know what is my 82 00:04:55,100 --> 00:04:57,500 son? Keep getting hit up with, you 83 00:04:57,500 --> 00:04:59,900 know, different kinds of Pampers ads or something, you know? 84 00:04:59,900 --> 00:05:04,000 So so I think those are those are all challenges and they have 85 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:07,600 different facets to him and so excited to kind of explore some 86 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:10,700 of that. Yeah, I think I think it's 87 00:05:10,700 --> 00:05:13,300 right, right? Like the frequency, is there the 88 00:05:13,300 --> 00:05:16,900 presence is there that's that's a good indicator. 89 00:05:16,900 --> 00:05:21,700 That consumers are noticing. However, I would say some 90 00:05:21,700 --> 00:05:25,100 consumers, you say Pampers had, I don't remember what the ad 91 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:29,700 that that that he was seeing, I would need to ask him, but what 92 00:05:29,700 --> 00:05:32,500 is it doing for brands that are actually appearing? 93 00:05:32,500 --> 00:05:37,400 So many times. So, frequently in such a short 94 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,100 period of time? I understand that that 95 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:48,100 potentially at some point meets some metrics as far as goals but 96 00:05:48,100 --> 00:05:51,400 is it doing Good for the brands. I think now there's the 97 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:54,300 opportunity to do sequential advertising and storytelling in 98 00:05:54,300 --> 00:05:59,900 a very clever way but appearing in such a repetitive way. 99 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:04,900 Is is evidently without a doubt. Even if we look at it 100 00:06:04,900 --> 00:06:10,200 optimistically yes were present. The frequency is their consumers 101 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:14,700 are noticing but it has to have some sort of negative effect on 102 00:06:14,700 --> 00:06:15,900 the brand. That's appearing. 103 00:06:17,300 --> 00:06:21,000 Thoughts on that Moe? Yeah, I mean I think your 104 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:22,400 herbicide right? I didn't want to dismiss the 105 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:24,100 fact that frequency is a problem. 106 00:06:24,100 --> 00:06:26,700 I just thought it was sort of interesting right that are 107 00:06:26,700 --> 00:06:29,200 noticing. Okay. 108 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:30,500 It's definitely a problem, right? 109 00:06:30,500 --> 00:06:34,200 Like if you feel like a brand is intrusive Lee telling the same 110 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:39,300 story over and over again and not sort of aware of how much 111 00:06:39,300 --> 00:06:43,000 their messaging to you. It's really easy to get 112 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:47,400 frustrated without experience as a user and rather than Give me 113 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:49,600 that. I mean, you know, as the sort of 114 00:06:49,608 --> 00:06:52,600 failing of the ad Tech system that's going on, you're likely 115 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:56,200 to attribute, that blame to The Advertiser themselves, right? 116 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:59,900 So, you know, why am I seeing the same papers add or the same 117 00:06:59,900 --> 00:07:02,500 Amazon add? I get served Amazon, warehouse 118 00:07:02,500 --> 00:07:06,600 adds all the time. And so there's a relevance sort 119 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:09,100 of component to that, but there's definitely a component, 120 00:07:09,100 --> 00:07:12,400 which is, you know, if I see too many repetitive ads, I'm going 121 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:15,600 to get annoyed and you know that has the opposite effect. 122 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:19,500 Obviously of what brands are Are trying to do with their media, I 123 00:07:19,508 --> 00:07:24,000 was doing a search on. Why do I keep getting the same 124 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:26,600 ads on Google and there was like, two point two billion 125 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:30,100 search results from it. So there's like we're not alone. 126 00:07:30,300 --> 00:07:32,000 It's hitting a nerve with people, for sure. 127 00:07:32,100 --> 00:07:35,700 Yeah, it's not just those three trying to figure it out, but one 128 00:07:35,700 --> 00:07:41,300 thing is, is that we saw as research in as a causes like, 129 00:07:41,300 --> 00:07:44,000 you know, budget hearing that, you know, some companies, 130 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,600 perhaps have large in advertising budgets than others. 131 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:52,300 Ken's win that space of appearing more times, the other 132 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:56,500 potential could be. We've gotten so good at 133 00:07:56,500 --> 00:08:04,400 targeting right that, you know, it's so precise and so effective 134 00:08:04,500 --> 00:08:07,800 that we're getting the right, people many times. 135 00:08:07,900 --> 00:08:10,300 But again, that's where we need to see. 136 00:08:10,300 --> 00:08:14,300 Okay, how good is good, and how good is it doing for for our 137 00:08:14,300 --> 00:08:16,300 brand? And then, I think and you guys 138 00:08:16,300 --> 00:08:21,600 can Talk more about that. But the idea of AD inventory and 139 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:23,900 how would the liver in and working with different dies 140 00:08:23,900 --> 00:08:27,200 pieces, especially when you think of programmatic, what is 141 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:29,400 it doing for the industry? How can we put all that in a 142 00:08:29,407 --> 00:08:31,800 blender to make it work in a more seamless way? 143 00:08:31,900 --> 00:08:35,700 We know it's working for sure, but we always want to believe 144 00:08:35,700 --> 00:08:39,600 that that we could do it better. Yeah, I think so. 145 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:42,600 Just two things kind of stand out to me to begin with one is 146 00:08:42,900 --> 00:08:45,800 just quantifying that this is an issue, right? 147 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,200 As in is. Something that one person is 148 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:50,800 feeling clearly not. If two billion people are sort 149 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:54,000 of moving this or, is this sort of a real issue in one of the 150 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:56,600 numbers behind it. So, leading up to this, I 151 00:08:56,608 --> 00:09:00,800 actually went into our sort of data that that I like you Klutz. 152 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:05,900 We've got data on that over 60 million TV sets in America. 153 00:09:06,700 --> 00:09:09,200 So we get to see what they're seeing on connected TV as well 154 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,400 as what they're watching on Whittier tubing and so don't use 155 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:15,400 any of the ads or any of the content, whatever sort of 156 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:20,300 they're saying and And what's interesting is I ran the top 157 00:09:20,300 --> 00:09:24,700 sort of 26 brands that are on linear TV across a bunch of 158 00:09:24,708 --> 00:09:28,700 different verticals, right? Finance Insurance, Q Sr, you 159 00:09:28,700 --> 00:09:32,100 know, sort of retail kind of everything even 160 00:09:32,100 --> 00:09:33,900 direct-to-consumer with sort of, you know, one or two. 161 00:09:33,900 --> 00:09:36,700 We're in there. And what we thought was if you 162 00:09:36,700 --> 00:09:41,400 looked at the frequencies on connected TV and layer obviously 163 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:42,900 linear had higher frequency, right? 164 00:09:42,900 --> 00:09:45,700 You're reaching sort of the same users many many times and most 165 00:09:45,700 --> 00:09:48,400 brands are still spending. More money on linear than the 166 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:50,800 are connected TV. But when you looked at the 167 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:55,500 frequency distribution and what that means is, how of the ads 168 00:09:55,500 --> 00:09:58,300 that you served, how many were served heavy users, people who 169 00:09:58,300 --> 00:10:00,000 watch a lot of TV. How many were serve Delight 170 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:01,800 users? What you would ideally like to 171 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:05,400 see is everyone got served the same number of ads, right but if 172 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:08,100 someone wants ten times more content than the other person, 173 00:10:08,100 --> 00:10:11,700 they're going to see more ads. And what we ended up seeing was 174 00:10:12,100 --> 00:10:15,400 the frequency. Distribution problem was as bad 175 00:10:15,500 --> 00:10:18,400 or worse. On connected TV that I wasn't 176 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:23,500 later as they allow heavy streamers were being served even 177 00:10:23,500 --> 00:10:26,100 more ads as a percentage of all the see TV ads. 178 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:28,500 Then heavy linear TV Watchers here. 179 00:10:28,900 --> 00:10:31,500 And so, you know, we've got some good data that have a share 180 00:10:31,500 --> 00:10:35,900 afterwards, but I think that that sort of very much 181 00:10:35,900 --> 00:10:38,100 quantifies. The issue of there actually is a 182 00:10:38,100 --> 00:10:40,000 problem here. Heavy streamers are seeing a lot 183 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:42,100 of ads and then there's some people who, you know, maybe 184 00:10:42,100 --> 00:10:45,200 aren't seeing many ads at all. Oh, wow. 185 00:10:45,500 --> 00:10:50,600 So, it seems that I didn't know that and and that seems to be. 186 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:55,600 Then it takes the problem to be a problem over X versus a 187 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:58,100 problem of a specific technology, right? 188 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:04,700 Is it, it's, you know, given that it's, there's, there's more 189 00:11:04,700 --> 00:11:09,500 options and it's not only limited to necessarily connected 190 00:11:09,500 --> 00:11:11,300 TV. Correct? 191 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:14,000 Yeah, I will just throw in there. 192 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:16,500 That you know what Moses explaining? 193 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:19,900 I would say part of the car because trying to understand 194 00:11:19,900 --> 00:11:21,800 what's causing it, right? That's that's that's what we're 195 00:11:21,808 --> 00:11:23,600 trying to get down. To is what's causing it and I 196 00:11:23,608 --> 00:11:26,100 think there's there's multiple facets and it's complex, it's 197 00:11:26,100 --> 00:11:30,300 not super distilled or simplified all the way from the 198 00:11:30,300 --> 00:11:33,400 publisher side, right? So that these Publishers these, 199 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:35,700 you know, networks, these content producers they're 200 00:11:35,700 --> 00:11:38,700 fighting for eyeballs, right? And there's two ways that people 201 00:11:38,700 --> 00:11:44,300 can can, you know, run their Media or show up on their 202 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:46,200 They're on their services, right? 203 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:51,300 And that's either a direct by and going to, you know, Hulu or 204 00:11:51,300 --> 00:11:56,000 a Disney plus, you know, HBO Max Paramount and buying a Direct 205 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:59,000 Buy and then trying to guarantee a certain amount of Impressions 206 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:01,500 and marketer saying, we need to spend x amount of dollars a year 207 00:12:01,500 --> 00:12:03,200 to guarantee a certain amount of eyeballs. 208 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:06,100 That's one way and the other way like you said is 209 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:09,900 programmatically, right in offering up real time. 210 00:12:09,900 --> 00:12:13,700 Remnant inventory and delivering it through a lot of people 211 00:12:14,100 --> 00:12:15,700 there. Challenges on both of those 212 00:12:15,700 --> 00:12:20,600 sides that I would just call out one being I think Publishers 213 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:24,100 sometimes are hesitant to call out their actual subscriber 214 00:12:24,100 --> 00:12:28,100 numbers and so some of the times and I'm not trying to like I'm 215 00:12:28,100 --> 00:12:30,400 not pointing the blame at them only by any means. 216 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:34,000 I know I'm just surfacing these things right is is you know 217 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:39,200 Netflix was massive in this where they wanted to demand a 218 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:41,900 really high premium and marketers are going. 219 00:12:41,900 --> 00:12:45,400 Well, that's that's way more. You know that That CPM is 220 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:47,900 significantly more than I'm paying in these other places. 221 00:12:47,900 --> 00:12:50,900 What makes you so special? They're like well we're you know 222 00:12:51,100 --> 00:12:54,900 we have the biggest largest subscriber base in in you know 223 00:12:54,900 --> 00:12:58,100 the us but you're like yes but how many of them are actually 224 00:12:58,100 --> 00:13:01,300 able to view ads and they weren't wanting to be real with 225 00:13:01,300 --> 00:13:03,200 it. And in March, we found out that 226 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:05,600 it's roughly that they're just under a million right? 227 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:08,600 Under a million subscribers. So if you only have a million 228 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:11,500 people and you're trying to fulfill big large, commitments 229 00:13:11,500 --> 00:13:14,700 from these Brands and dollars and at the same time, Most of 230 00:13:14,708 --> 00:13:17,500 these Brands, only want to run on the top genres. 231 00:13:17,500 --> 00:13:20,100 That's that's, that's a marketer Challenge and marketers. 232 00:13:20,100 --> 00:13:22,300 Wanting only want, everybody wants the same. 233 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:24,500 Everybody wants the same. Everybody wants to be like, no, 234 00:13:24,500 --> 00:13:27,300 I don't want to run on those things because it could be less 235 00:13:27,300 --> 00:13:30,600 premium or less, you know, and I'm saying that in air quotes 236 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:34,100 because they just know that they want to hit the big top shows. 237 00:13:34,100 --> 00:13:36,600 Well, if you're trying to hit the big top shows, then you're 238 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:41,000 hitting the people who are, you know, lower there's a lower base 239 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:43,700 to reach because of the subscribers. 240 00:13:44,300 --> 00:13:47,300 And then on top of that, they're only going to run ads on those. 241 00:13:47,300 --> 00:13:50,100 Top shows then you're going to get hit up quite a bit, right? 242 00:13:50,100 --> 00:13:54,100 And so there's multiple facets to that and then separately I 243 00:13:54,100 --> 00:13:58,200 throw this in there is that while you can have direct buys, 244 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:00,900 you can also try to buy through exchanges and I'll point the 245 00:14:00,908 --> 00:14:03,000 finger at us from the industry on the supply. 246 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:06,900 And the demand side of it is that there are a lot of 247 00:14:06,900 --> 00:14:10,700 resellers in the mix right. There are a lot of people, a lot 248 00:14:10,700 --> 00:14:13,600 of different Avenues and ways to be able to go and say I want to 249 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:18,800 access You know, Hulu inventory, and you could have different 250 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:21,200 Supply pass and exchanges running through that. 251 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:23,500 And if you don't, if they're not being transparent, if you 252 00:14:23,500 --> 00:14:25,800 haven't done the due diligence and you don't work with a 253 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:29,300 partner like in my queue, that's trying to create transparency 254 00:14:29,300 --> 00:14:33,900 and path, then then you could be buying it at multiple Avenues. 255 00:14:33,900 --> 00:14:36,500 Plus you stack that with your Direct Buy and then all of a 256 00:14:36,508 --> 00:14:40,400 sudden you're hitting that same user targeting that one dma 257 00:14:40,700 --> 00:14:44,200 getting really precise on that targeting like you said and then 258 00:14:44,300 --> 00:14:46,200 You create a little bit of this conundrum. 259 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:49,800 Can I just add some stats to what? 260 00:14:50,500 --> 00:14:53,700 Caleb just said right about? Yes, through Kraut. 261 00:14:53,700 --> 00:14:54,500 Really what you're talking about. 262 00:14:54,500 --> 00:14:57,600 Caleb is I'm crowding about Doll ad dollars, right? 263 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:00,500 Everyone wants to be sort of crowded around the top end 264 00:15:00,500 --> 00:15:03,400 number of applications of Publishers and Francisco. 265 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:04,700 You've probably seen it all the time, right? 266 00:15:04,700 --> 00:15:08,400 When a client wants to jump into screaming, they've got an idea 267 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:11,000 of which apps that means, right? And they're coming to you. 268 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:14,200 And going I want to be on Hulu or I want to be on whatever. 269 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:17,000 YouTube TV. I've got sort of probably two 270 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:22,100 three, four apps that I want to be on and this incredible study 271 00:15:22,100 --> 00:15:27,300 in 2021 couple years ago during sort of the pandemic where they 272 00:15:27,300 --> 00:15:31,400 looked at you know sort of 25 to 50 of the largest C to B 273 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:35,700 marketers on their platform and looked at what percentage of 274 00:15:35,700 --> 00:15:40,000 reachable ad-supported sort of TV host, CTV homes. 275 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,300 Each marketer was able to reach. So if you had a campaign of one 276 00:15:44,300 --> 00:15:47,700 Uh, sure, even if that was a big publisher like a Hulu or 277 00:15:47,700 --> 00:15:50,900 YouTube, or if you had a campaign of five Publishers or 278 00:15:50,900 --> 00:15:53,200 you had a campaign, a 10 Publishers, what does your 279 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:55,700 campaign reached look like, right? 280 00:15:55,700 --> 00:15:59,500 And what they found was, you know, these large budgets that 281 00:15:59,500 --> 00:16:01,800 were going to a single publisher, sometimes you were 282 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:04,600 reaching single digit percentages of the total 283 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:08,000 addressable connected TV audience, because that's just 284 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,600 who was live on that one publisher at that, given time. 285 00:16:10,700 --> 00:16:14,200 So, even though you're sort of amplifying your spend, you know, 286 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:16,400 Over and over, and over again. What you're really doing is 287 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,900 having up spend to realistically, who is available 288 00:16:19,900 --> 00:16:24,800 within that Publishers ad supported, you know, viewer base 289 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:28,000 at that time. And they found even up to 10 290 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,600 viewers and up, you know, I've got to get the numbers right on 291 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:34,000 this, but even up to ten Publishers on a plan, you were 292 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:37,400 still only reaching about a quarter of the addressable 293 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:41,900 connected TV audience, right? And so, you know, that kind of 294 00:16:41,900 --> 00:16:44,700 speaks a little bit to that problem that killed just Don, 295 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:47,400 you know, if you're going in with a heavily heavily sort of 296 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:50,500 targeted view of the audience, you know, across a few 297 00:16:50,500 --> 00:16:53,900 Publishers, you're likely going to be crowding towards users 298 00:16:53,900 --> 00:16:56,700 who, you know, exists within those worlds obviously. 299 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,300 So. So we see is it correct to say 300 00:17:00,300 --> 00:17:05,700 that maybe you're hitting that 25% many times versus the entire 301 00:17:06,599 --> 00:17:09,900 spectrum of absolutely, right? Absolutely. 302 00:17:09,900 --> 00:17:14,099 And that's, that's what you know when when you're able to look at 303 00:17:14,300 --> 00:17:18,500 Use the ACR data and understand that's one of the that's one of 304 00:17:18,500 --> 00:17:21,099 the the solutions that we can. You know, we can talk about our 305 00:17:21,099 --> 00:17:26,400 the solves is just as a marketer you know being able to work with 306 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:30,900 folks that give you the data behind it to really understand 307 00:17:30,900 --> 00:17:33,700 what your reach is from a linear perspective and what your 308 00:17:33,700 --> 00:17:37,800 reaches from a you know connected TV and streaming side. 309 00:17:38,100 --> 00:17:42,500 You know that is what you find is that the the top 25% of your 310 00:17:42,500 --> 00:17:47,200 audience, got hit You know, with 60 70 percent, 80 percent of 311 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:50,900 your entire budget, right? And and what's crazy about that 312 00:17:50,900 --> 00:17:54,800 is again, this is all digital and this is all connected and 313 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:58,700 that data is available to us to be able to say, you know what, 314 00:17:58,900 --> 00:18:01,700 why don't we suppress that, why don't we, why don't we work 315 00:18:01,700 --> 00:18:05,600 toward sharing the love and spreading the the marketing 316 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:10,400 dollars to those other quartiles or quintiles that maybe got hit 317 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:16,400 once not 25 times, right? And and, and And in that you 318 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:19,700 start to create a better user experience, you start to create 319 00:18:19,700 --> 00:18:22,200 better efficiency for a marketer, right? 320 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:24,800 And that your media dollars aren't being delivered only into 321 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:29,400 one spot and it holds some accountability to the whole 322 00:18:29,500 --> 00:18:32,900 ecosystem and how do we how do we achieve that? 323 00:18:34,300 --> 00:18:37,600 Yeah, so I think just adding to that point on that killed just 324 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:39,900 brought up, right? You know, everyone's listening 325 00:18:39,900 --> 00:18:42,400 to this and going, wow, frequencies a big problem. 326 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:44,500 But it's not a problem for me, because I've looked at my 327 00:18:44,500 --> 00:18:47,300 frequency report and it says, three and a half times that I'm 328 00:18:47,300 --> 00:18:50,800 crossing it right then. So in Excel in the Excel sheet, 329 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:51,800 it looks great. Yes. 330 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,100 We're yeah. It's sort of like, you know, put 331 00:18:54,100 --> 00:18:56,400 all the marketers that are room, have them look left and right 332 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:58,300 and go. Everyone else has a frequency 333 00:18:58,300 --> 00:19:00,700 problem, but not, not me in my campaign because I'm looking at 334 00:19:00,700 --> 00:19:04,400 it. So I think that the number one 335 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:08,100 thing I would say say is the learning for us is it's not a 336 00:19:08,108 --> 00:19:11,500 frequency problem, it's a frequency distribution problem 337 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:15,600 which is the fact that your average frequency is very high, 338 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:19,100 it's a fact that if you look at your ad server, reporting broken 339 00:19:19,100 --> 00:19:23,000 down by sort of, you know, frequent like Impressions by 340 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,100 frequency group, you're going to find. 341 00:19:25,100 --> 00:19:27,800 There's one group that got served 100 Impressions and 342 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:29,700 there's one group. That's a very, very large. 343 00:19:29,700 --> 00:19:32,600 I got served what impression and your average frequency might be 344 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,300 three and a half but you Over that's over. 345 00:19:35,300 --> 00:19:37,500 The entirety of the audience. So if there's one thing that you 346 00:19:37,508 --> 00:19:41,900 can start to do as a brand or as an agency, managing your spend 347 00:19:41,900 --> 00:19:44,100 is starting to look at your ad server reporting. 348 00:19:44,100 --> 00:19:47,200 Not an average frequency level but looking at distribution 349 00:19:47,300 --> 00:19:51,300 within that average frequency, So basically, your 25% got to be 350 00:19:51,308 --> 00:19:53,800 200 times right back to what you were saying? 351 00:19:54,500 --> 00:19:57,200 Yeah, I think connecting the dots and it's almost like a 352 00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,400 communication problem. And I was thinking as we were 353 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:03,300 talking about the analogy of of my wife, sending it with my 354 00:20:03,300 --> 00:20:07,200 daughter, with to the grocery store and both of us having the 355 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,900 same list and going in and trying to get everything and 356 00:20:09,900 --> 00:20:14,300 both coming back to the same stuff, which is what I feel it's 357 00:20:14,300 --> 00:20:17,100 happening, right? Like, instead of dividing and 358 00:20:17,100 --> 00:20:22,000 knowing, hey, you need to hit. It, this audience, this amount 359 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:26,100 of times, but distributor across the entire audience. 360 00:20:26,100 --> 00:20:29,800 So one percentage of that audience does not get affected 361 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:34,600 in a nasty way. So is that what you would call 362 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:37,900 when we talk about frequency capping? 363 00:20:39,100 --> 00:20:43,200 It would that be more of a distribution solution? 364 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,500 So, like you don't necessarily Kappa 21, audience is just like 365 00:20:46,500 --> 00:20:51,300 more address larger In order to meet that commitment in 366 00:20:51,300 --> 00:20:55,000 frequency. Yeah, I would say that, you 367 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:58,300 know, frequency capping, that the way that I would Define that 368 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:01,100 is really about how you're setting up something in a 369 00:21:01,100 --> 00:21:04,400 console or, you know, or not or in a DSP, right? 370 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:08,100 Where you're trying to say, hey only, I'm trying to distribute 371 00:21:08,100 --> 00:21:13,700 my budget, you know, in a good ratio writer clean line. 372 00:21:13,700 --> 00:21:17,100 And so I'm going to cap the number of people that I can 373 00:21:17,100 --> 00:21:20,600 serve against per hour per day. Day or per week, right? 374 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:22,600 So that's a that's a frequency capping piece. 375 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:27,100 That is part of it for sure but but what what most talking about 376 00:21:27,100 --> 00:21:28,700 and will correct me if I'm wrong here. 377 00:21:28,700 --> 00:21:31,700 But it's that distribution and that's a different data set so 378 00:21:31,708 --> 00:21:34,600 that's not necessarily in this setup that's not something 379 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:38,500 standard that you would have access to in a DSP but it's more 380 00:21:38,500 --> 00:21:42,700 of getting these you know reports working with a partner 381 00:21:42,700 --> 00:21:48,500 that has access to ACR data that can provide an overall 382 00:21:48,500 --> 00:21:50,900 frequency. Tribution and it comes in to 383 00:21:50,900 --> 00:21:54,900 play, you know, there's a lot of rich don't want to miss out on 384 00:21:54,900 --> 00:21:57,400 this massive pieces. There's a lot of data science to 385 00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:59,500 it. There's a lot of analysis and 386 00:21:59,500 --> 00:22:02,400 just because you can get access to data doesn't mean, you know 387 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,700 what to do with it. And so you have to have the 388 00:22:04,700 --> 00:22:08,500 right individuals, put piecing it together to be able to make 389 00:22:08,500 --> 00:22:11,800 sense of how can I segment these audiences? 390 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:14,300 How can I distribute it? Accordingly. 391 00:22:14,300 --> 00:22:18,100 And how do I not just understand who I hit? 392 00:22:18,100 --> 00:22:20,400 How many households are And how many times I reach them. 393 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,000 But what was then the associated outcome. 394 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:26,900 What was the end K pi r or objective at the brand marketer 395 00:22:26,900 --> 00:22:29,500 wanted to accomplish? Was it did we actually drive 396 00:22:29,500 --> 00:22:32,000 people in store? Did we take them and you know, 397 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,800 increase awareness, or did we take them to the site to engage 398 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:40,100 with with the content? And so it's mixing all of those 399 00:22:40,100 --> 00:22:42,700 things and layering it all together to then, understand 400 00:22:42,700 --> 00:22:45,900 that distribution. And then being able to build 401 00:22:45,900 --> 00:22:48,200 some really cool segments and audiences to go. 402 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,700 You know what we are going to Peace this out, right somos, 403 00:22:51,100 --> 00:22:54,000 correct me if I'm wrong on any of this, don't worry about it. 404 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,700 I think they all, did I think the only thing I would build on 405 00:22:56,700 --> 00:22:59,600 top of that is, you know, where programmatic people. 406 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:01,600 So, we almost make the assumption that the defaults 407 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,000 choice for marketers programmatic, and the reality 408 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,900 is, it's not right? The, a ton of CTP budgets, go 409 00:23:07,900 --> 00:23:11,100 direct to publisher. A ton of CTV, goes through up 410 00:23:11,100 --> 00:23:13,500 front, even if it's not on fronts, there's still tons of 411 00:23:13,500 --> 00:23:17,500 dirt to publisher up there. And so, you know, this is an 412 00:23:17,500 --> 00:23:21,400 area that I think It's really important for agencies and bread 413 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:25,100 Partners to be vigilant on which is your publisher Partners. 414 00:23:25,100 --> 00:23:28,500 Probably are applying frequency caps right Within Walls and 415 00:23:28,500 --> 00:23:30,600 they're trying their best to sort of manage the frequency 416 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:34,000 within the walls that they have. But what ends up happening is 417 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:38,900 you might have a direct by with five six, seven eight, maybe ten 418 00:23:38,900 --> 00:23:43,000 Publishers, each individually, applying frequency caps, right? 419 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:47,200 And heavy screaming, audience is a heavy streaming audience is a 420 00:23:47,208 --> 00:23:49,400 heavy streaming audience across all of those Different 421 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:54,300 Publishers and so 3 here 3 here 3 here, 3 here and you hadn't 422 00:23:54,300 --> 00:23:57,300 been a place. Still wear your frequency in 423 00:23:57,300 --> 00:23:59,100 aggregate. When you look at the ad server 424 00:23:59,100 --> 00:24:02,100 or you look at you know, a partner, they see are still ends 425 00:24:02,100 --> 00:24:05,500 up being very, very high to that heavy streaming audience, right? 426 00:24:05,500 --> 00:24:09,200 So, you know, this is I tend to do not a lot of pitching on my 427 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:10,800 side. I mean, you know, this is why I 428 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:12,400 Kayla was more of a sales person. 429 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:14,700 I'm more of a kind of beating beating person. 430 00:24:14,700 --> 00:24:18,700 But, you know, when I, when I think about sort of how do you 431 00:24:18,700 --> 00:24:22,700 manage That I think two things are really important for 432 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,300 agencies. One is in as much as they can 433 00:24:25,300 --> 00:24:28,500 leverage best-in-class, Tech that's out there with the likes 434 00:24:28,500 --> 00:24:31,500 of a programmatic. Or would the likes of a even PG 435 00:24:31,500 --> 00:24:34,900 deals of direct buys? I think that helps you monitor 436 00:24:35,100 --> 00:24:38,700 the frequency problem across different Publishers, which is 437 00:24:38,700 --> 00:24:40,900 important. And the second is, you know, if 438 00:24:40,900 --> 00:24:44,000 there's cases where you have to go direct binocular, PG ad 439 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,000 server, reporting. What you should look at, right? 440 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,400 Because really, you want to go across Publishers? 441 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,400 Not look. Sir frequency within one 442 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,900 publisher. Hey, the importance of the 443 00:24:53,900 --> 00:24:56,600 people behind it that are kind of stitching everything 444 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:58,300 together, so it makes sense, right? 445 00:24:58,300 --> 00:25:00,400 So why is this not happening more often? 446 00:25:00,500 --> 00:25:05,000 Is it, is it that we're not being able to sell the value of 447 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,900 connecting and having those analyses don't constantly. 448 00:25:09,100 --> 00:25:11,000 So again, going back to the original problem. 449 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:16,300 This is still happening. The there's articles about it, 450 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:21,800 there's me to and adds that I'm Afraid that might be over-served 451 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:24,200 or wear out in a month. Right? 452 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,500 What's what can change? Yeah. 453 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,900 Why is it still happening? So I'll just share a couple 454 00:25:31,900 --> 00:25:36,400 quick things. One I'd say is Is one get 455 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:41,100 getting your hands on the data can be costly and investing in 456 00:25:41,100 --> 00:25:47,400 trying to do this on your own, can be massively costly and, you 457 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,400 know, testing and learning and understand. 458 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:55,100 It is really challenging to be a marketer because all the, all 459 00:25:55,100 --> 00:25:58,800 the methodologies, all the ways that you prove, the, you know, 460 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,800 the ROI and you take that back to your, you know, executive 461 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:04,500 board, improve how your marketing dollars. 462 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:09,700 And are built on different technologies that don't always 463 00:26:09,700 --> 00:26:12,300 talk and interact with each other, right? 464 00:26:12,300 --> 00:26:14,100 Right. And so, you know, whether it's 465 00:26:14,100 --> 00:26:18,600 an mmm model and and you know, that maybe lean more heavily 466 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,300 toward TV because for so many years, that was the way that it 467 00:26:22,300 --> 00:26:26,100 was defined, right? It favors TV, that's one aspect 468 00:26:26,100 --> 00:26:29,100 that can be challenging and it's still tricky and finicky. 469 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:31,900 The other piece that I would add in there, is that on the 470 00:26:31,900 --> 00:26:34,600 programmatic side and on the add text side, we haven't made it 471 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,500 easy. E for them either because 472 00:26:36,500 --> 00:26:41,300 there's not a true overarching, easy way to manage reach and 473 00:26:41,300 --> 00:26:43,700 frequency across everything. A lot of people can try to cheat 474 00:26:43,700 --> 00:26:47,100 the system or, you know, play a cheat code and try to just go. 475 00:26:47,100 --> 00:26:49,300 We're only going to use one console because then that one 476 00:26:49,300 --> 00:26:52,100 console can tell us within their own little universe or their own 477 00:26:52,300 --> 00:26:56,300 graph of people who we reached. But again, you miss out on so 478 00:26:56,300 --> 00:26:58,900 much opportunity and scale. Right? 479 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,600 And so those are that's, that's another challenge. 480 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,100 But I would say the bigger bigger challenges. 481 00:27:05,300 --> 00:27:09,200 This data set is costly to play with and to interact with and 482 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:13,800 investing the energy the effort and the time can require a 483 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:20,200 really big amount of dollars that as a marketer who's trying 484 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:24,700 to move things forward, that might not be the utmost 485 00:27:24,700 --> 00:27:27,700 priority, right? And so you're kind of left to 486 00:27:27,700 --> 00:27:30,400 your your ad Tech Partners to try to solve? 487 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,100 Hmm, interesting. Yeah, especially if it looks 488 00:27:34,100 --> 00:27:39,000 good on On paper and I met my goals, like, why would I, you 489 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:43,100 know, sometimes it looks bad for us as marketers to go and 490 00:27:43,100 --> 00:27:46,600 present results, and, and present something that could 491 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:50,500 have cost in theory a little bit less a quarter, right? 492 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:55,800 Say hey, it cost 75 percent more but, but, you know, the numbers 493 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:57,300 are right. When your colleague on the other 494 00:27:57,300 --> 00:27:59,900 side, has the same numbers on an Excel sheet and spent less. 495 00:28:01,300 --> 00:28:03,800 So, I get that and that's, that's an insult, those models. 496 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:04,700 Yeah. So it's so nice. 497 00:28:04,900 --> 00:28:07,700 Close that everything's built into right and how we report out 498 00:28:07,700 --> 00:28:10,200 on it. But I will say this, I think 499 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,100 don't think creative is lost, right? 500 00:28:12,100 --> 00:28:16,700 I don't think all hope is lost. So you gave an anecdote and I'll 501 00:28:16,700 --> 00:28:18,900 give you my anecdote, my nine-year-old daughter. 502 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:23,200 Absolutely loves the Aldi commercial and she will pause 503 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,300 whatever. She's doing to hear the whole, 504 00:28:26,300 --> 00:28:28,400 you know, so it's not a sale sale. 505 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,300 So clever, you know, like that whole engagement that whole 506 00:28:31,300 --> 00:28:35,100 dialogue, my daughter, eats it up and she can hear it with Her 507 00:28:35,100 --> 00:28:37,100 ears, wherever it says, she might need to be watching the 508 00:28:37,100 --> 00:28:38,500 TV. She can hear in the background. 509 00:28:38,500 --> 00:28:41,300 She runs into the room and she just wants to watch it. 510 00:28:41,300 --> 00:28:46,400 So to me I'm not saying, you know, all hope is lost there 511 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:50,800 because what what people like you and your team do and what 512 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:55,300 Lerma does and puts forward killer messaging that that's 513 00:28:55,300 --> 00:29:00,000 parks and hits that magical connection with with humans 514 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:04,700 where a brand can interact. I think that's still valid and 515 00:29:04,900 --> 00:29:09,500 And we'll cut through the Clutter so yeah no no I agree 516 00:29:09,500 --> 00:29:13,100 with my daughter also to that and I'll be like every time she 517 00:29:13,100 --> 00:29:15,500 grabs an avocado almost sing the jingle, right. 518 00:29:15,500 --> 00:29:20,200 Like yeah a little marketing monsters. 519 00:29:20,500 --> 00:29:23,200 This this there's there's opportunity. 520 00:29:24,500 --> 00:29:30,300 So one last question is it is it also that they that we need more 521 00:29:30,300 --> 00:29:36,900 Brands to jump into the space so that we have More you know, 522 00:29:36,900 --> 00:29:40,500 basically they offer and demand right model. 523 00:29:40,900 --> 00:29:45,800 We're in a way it would make it more affordable. 524 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:50,000 There's more players as more people kind of kind of play in 525 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:56,300 the space versus having one brand, owning all the inventory 526 00:29:56,300 --> 00:29:58,900 and and having that is there, something about that that's 527 00:29:58,900 --> 00:30:02,200 happening as well? I wouldn't say we're early in 528 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:06,000 the game but still a young industry without a doubt. 529 00:30:08,100 --> 00:30:11,800 I think part of it is when I is I'm thinking about that, right? 530 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:16,500 Like you think of all the battle on the war that is going on, 531 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:21,900 from a, you know, publisher Network side of it, right? 532 00:30:21,900 --> 00:30:24,900 Where it used to be, everything was bundled into one place, 533 00:30:24,900 --> 00:30:26,200 right? In cable is easy. 534 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,100 And then, you know, here came digital and screwed everything 535 00:30:29,100 --> 00:30:30,700 up. And so now everybody is trying 536 00:30:30,700 --> 00:30:32,700 to fight to build their own platform, right? 537 00:30:32,700 --> 00:30:34,700 And you got Paramount trying to do its own thing. 538 00:30:34,700 --> 00:30:40,100 And then you got HBO Max You know, joining forces and trying 539 00:30:40,100 --> 00:30:44,300 to, you know, get subscribers and so right now unfortunately I 540 00:30:44,300 --> 00:30:49,700 think we're in this day and age of more silos. 541 00:30:49,900 --> 00:30:51,800 Not recommendation. Yeah. 542 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:55,600 More fragmentation in the content and Publishing world 543 00:30:56,500 --> 00:31:02,100 because everyone is trying to keep that that money and going 544 00:31:02,100 --> 00:31:04,800 your right to get the advertising dollars. 545 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,100 But then also too. Keep winning awards for their 546 00:31:08,100 --> 00:31:10,700 content, right? And so, there's a lot of 547 00:31:10,700 --> 00:31:13,500 fighting happening. I don't see a future right now. 548 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,900 We're all of that. Now, some of them may not there. 549 00:31:16,900 --> 00:31:19,900 They're added models might not work and, you know, they're 550 00:31:19,900 --> 00:31:21,400 their stock prices might go down. 551 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,800 The shoulder value goes down, and they might start merging. 552 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,900 And I do think that there will be, you know, we see it all the 553 00:31:26,900 --> 00:31:31,200 time right in the news, every, every year, every quarter, where 554 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:35,000 certain Publishers are joining forces with others, but that's 555 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:39,400 been a battle from, you know, No from even before digital so I 556 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:41,100 think that battle is going to continue. 557 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:47,000 Yeah they the war of subscription video on the van 558 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:52,000 versus ad-supported video on demand it's on I was joking if 559 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:58,200 the mo with Caleb earlier than it's incredible that sometimes 560 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,900 we work in an industry. If you know I went to speaking 561 00:32:01,900 --> 00:32:06,000 to a conference and I'm like you guys are sometimes willing to 562 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:11,800 pay Do not hear or see what I work on every day, right? 563 00:32:12,300 --> 00:32:16,100 So if you know, I asked the audience who here has Spotify 564 00:32:16,100 --> 00:32:20,200 Premium, you know? And I know you guys are willing 565 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:24,600 like, basic, what you what you walk-in away from is the ads but 566 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:26,100 then you don't want to pay for it. 567 00:32:26,100 --> 00:32:27,600 So it's like it's a give or take, right? 568 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:32,300 Like, it's a back and forth and then the fragmentation where we 569 00:32:32,300 --> 00:32:36,400 thought that walking away from DirecTV were saving dollars. 570 00:32:36,700 --> 00:32:41,900 Now, suddenly we have, you know, five or seven different Services 571 00:32:41,900 --> 00:32:45,800 where we're paying double that. So it's interesting, it's 572 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:47,800 interesting. I think it's it's putting it out 573 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,900 there and see how the market reacts and learn from it and 574 00:32:50,900 --> 00:32:54,900 then and then become more efficient with with you by 575 00:32:54,900 --> 00:32:58,800 analyzing that behavior. Yeah, we just had a, I think the 576 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,800 economics of this this industry or topsy-turvy about to figure 577 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,100 themselves out and next two years like I don't think anyone 578 00:33:05,100 --> 00:33:09,000 knows, right? Now the true value of an a bod 579 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:13,300 subscriber where you paid somebody to per month plus you 580 00:33:13,300 --> 00:33:17,100 know, get some ads and that relative to an esbat subscriber 581 00:33:17,100 --> 00:33:19,500 that's pure play. No ads because the reality is 582 00:33:19,500 --> 00:33:21,300 depending on the month, depending on how strong the 583 00:33:21,300 --> 00:33:24,900 market is, depending on your cpms and your ad load one might 584 00:33:24,900 --> 00:33:27,100 be much more profitable than the other. 585 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,500 And so, you know, you get a scenario where Netflix knocks 586 00:33:30,500 --> 00:33:33,000 one of its cheaper at plans that are ad-free plans out. 587 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,400 And says, nope, you're going to do the ad supported model. 588 00:33:36,500 --> 00:33:39,700 Or you're going to do this more expensive ad free model, right? 589 00:33:39,700 --> 00:33:43,100 And so, all of these sort of Economics, I think need to work 590 00:33:43,100 --> 00:33:46,700 themselves out of the next two years before Publishers really 591 00:33:46,700 --> 00:33:51,200 discover what an ad-supported you were as worthless to them 592 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,900 from a monthly you know, Revenue perspective. 593 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,800 Yeah, it's exciting times without a doubt and we again 594 00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:01,100 like this is, this is more. We as ad agencies, really 595 00:34:01,100 --> 00:34:05,000 appreciate models and having that conversation and openness 596 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:09,100 of Partners like you guys. When you spend the time for to 597 00:34:09,100 --> 00:34:12,400 do this, or coming to the agency to talk and Educators a little 598 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,600 bit more about it. So, so it's great. 599 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:17,400 I think the conversation is to continue. 600 00:34:18,699 --> 00:34:21,800 There's there has to be a solve. I think there is a Time 601 00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,000 component. As you were saying more, as time 602 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,300 passes, we're going to see the week, the consumer Behavior. 603 00:34:28,300 --> 00:34:31,100 What do they truly prefer or prioritize? 604 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:35,100 And then, that's also going to help marketers and advertisers 605 00:34:35,100 --> 00:34:38,600 and the inventory too. Kind of saddle and distribute a 606 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:42,500 little bit more evenly if if I were to come in to a conclusion 607 00:34:42,500 --> 00:34:46,600 of what I'm hearing and what I'm learning from this conversation. 608 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:48,300 Yeah, absolutely. And the last thing that I would 609 00:34:48,300 --> 00:34:52,800 throw their Francisco is just for marketers to is 610 00:34:52,900 --> 00:34:55,699 understanding that there is, there is data out there, there 611 00:34:55,699 --> 00:35:01,200 is things Partners available to them that can allow them to kind 612 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:06,400 of expand Beyond this only heavy streaming, heavy usage, heavy, 613 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:11,200 That, you know, audience or top Publishers and to understand 614 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:13,300 their did their frequency distribution. 615 00:35:13,300 --> 00:35:15,200 A lot better. I think that's, that's one of 616 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:18,700 the key pieces, that could be a solve that we're just tapping 617 00:35:18,700 --> 00:35:21,500 into an exploring. So that's all. 618 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,200 Well, we're coming were coming to an end, but I would like to 619 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,800 kind of open it up for you guys to like people try to reach you 620 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:30,800 or have any questions or anything. 621 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:33,800 If you guys want to share their social channels or email or 622 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:37,200 whatever you're welcome to use. Space. 623 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:42,300 Yeah I would just say you know come check out in our website. 624 00:35:42,300 --> 00:35:48,500 We are am iq.com just fantastic resources that marketers can use 625 00:35:48,500 --> 00:35:52,300 and see we've got blog post. We've got any time Mo goes and 626 00:35:52,300 --> 00:35:56,200 does a new researcher or a talk on this. 627 00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:01,000 We typically try to give you access to it and you know we're 628 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,600 someone who wants to be transparent and help everyone 629 00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:07,200 kind of went in this space and so There's a lot of great 630 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,300 resources there I would say. Love it. 631 00:36:12,700 --> 00:36:14,600 Mo anywhere where people can reach you. 632 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:18,700 Yeah. So I think killed is nothing 633 00:36:18,700 --> 00:36:20,700 right? I think, you know, we're an 634 00:36:20,700 --> 00:36:23,300 omni-channel providers. So we test a lot of different 635 00:36:23,300 --> 00:36:25,300 types of media. If you wanted to focus on TV 636 00:36:25,300 --> 00:36:28,700 specifically, we are am iq.com a TV. 637 00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:32,900 Hey, it's where all the team research and stuff is located. 638 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:37,400 I also personally tweet a lot of that technology sense on 639 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,600 Twitter. So if anyone's in the market for 640 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:46,700 a hot, Not, I'm owner score ribs on Twitter so they can find me 641 00:36:46,700 --> 00:36:49,600 there and find some some bad takes on that. 642 00:36:52,100 --> 00:36:54,900 Well, thank you so much for the openness and transparency. 643 00:36:55,400 --> 00:37:00,200 Putting the issue on the table. I appreciate you guys being 644 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,200 here. This has been loud and clear, 645 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:07,800 you can listen to loud and clear on on Spotify, Apple podcast 646 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:12,400 Stitcher, I heart now. So So anywhere, where you want? 647 00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:16,000 Listen to your podcast, we love the topics, we love to put 648 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,400 things on the table that kind of make us uncomfortable. 649 00:37:18,700 --> 00:37:22,700 So if you have any topics, also, check us out later. 650 00:37:22,700 --> 00:37:27,100 Matt. A agency.com or you can find me 651 00:37:27,100 --> 00:37:30,500 also on Twitter. Cheeto Cardenas, thank you so 652 00:37:30,500 --> 00:37:32,200 much. Okay little, thank you so much 653 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:33,500 more. It's a it's a great 654 00:37:33,500 --> 00:37:36,500 conversation. More to be seen and more to be 655 00:37:36,500 --> 00:37:38,200 had. So I really appreciate you guys