1
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Yeah, from the five to the six 
we be in the mix with that rare 

2
00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:17,760
candy paint job on the whip. 
I need food for the kids, money 

3
00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:19,880
for the rent. 
Fuck a lock down baby. 

4
00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:22,560
I can't do that shit now. 
I'll never vote because I'm 

5
00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,000
fucking broke and either way I 
know the police ain't gonna 

6
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leave me alone on a plane by the
physical and rock me. 

7
00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:29,720
Crypto told me I should be in 
the. 

8
00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:32,119
Glock way. 
So I packed up my piece and I'm 

9
00:00:32,119 --> 00:00:34,360
sliding slide. 
Because we might get caught up 

10
00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:36,680
in a riot. 
Middle finger Trump, middle 

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00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:41,160
finger Biden fucker, left fucker
right as you riding see it. 

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Those rocket in. 
No politics baby. 

13
00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:46,240
We just talked. 
From the birds to the bricks. 

14
00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:49,440
We be in the mix with the rare 
candy paint job on the web. 

15
00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:57,760
We with. 
Okay, I'm pleased to have Sasha 

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Cesada on here. 
And he wrote a how do you say 

17
00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:02,760
that? 
Do you do you write these? 

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00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:04,800
Do you draw these? 
I know nothing about comics. 

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I don't what would do with like,
I guess he's the author of a of 

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the Hippie Hunter, which is like
a graphic novel noir centered 

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around Paul Tate, the father of 
Sharon Tate. 

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Very, very, very fun read. 
I've been seeing your artwork on

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X for a long time just coming up
there. 

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So it's really nice to see it 
like kind of put into like a a 

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narrative and stuff. 
So that was that was really 

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cool. 
But I mean, I'll ask First off, 

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your appearance on the Bret 
Easton Ellis podcast. 

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Not only am I jealous, but it 
was actually really good. 

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And I'm a huge, huge fan of that
show. 

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And so since you know, he he had
a pretty rough last year, like 

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just personally and stuff. 
If you, if you've been following

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Brett Ellis's life and stuff, it
was he, he perked up a little 

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when you came on, which was 
nice. 

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Like he really just had like had
that, that interest that he had 

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that and then the detachment. 
Sometimes he gets really 

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detached when he's in a, when 
he's in kind of a sad mood. 

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And I felt him perk up. 
So I was, that was really cool. 

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And you, you got a bunch of 
feedback on it, positive, 

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00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:07,080
something negative. 
But I I think a lot of people 

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listened and liked it. 
Yeah, no, I've, I mean, I've 

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known Brett for like 20 years 
now. 

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Like, you know, we're we're 
we're, we're friends. 

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00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:16,200
And actually, I haven't seen him
in a few years. 

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I haven't been back to LA since 
like 2021, I think so. 

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So yeah, this is kind of a good 
way to reconnect with him, you 

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know, and I'd never been on the 
show before, so, you know, it 

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worked out. 
But but yeah, he, he, he's, he's

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had a pretty rough man the last 
year or so, you know, But, you 

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00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:35,760
know, he's, he's, he's, he's 
bred. 

50
00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:37,640
He's always like that. 
He's always kind of like very, 

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you know, I don't know, 
medicated. 

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Like his. 
Like his books. 

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00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:43,800
I mean his. 
Books read that way a lot of 

54
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times. 
Too it's it's it's like 

55
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meaningfully, strikingly funny, 
also kind of a malaise to it, 

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you know, and it's it's like 
watching the world burn around 

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you and you have a few jokes 
about it A lot of times like 

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that's kind of his his it's like
a shed a lot of his books like a

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shedding of an exoskeleton, you 
know what I mean? 

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Like constantly and, and just 
kind of the, the, the, the voice

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he he puts in there during that 
is always, is always great. 

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But you wrote, you wrote the 
hippie hunter and that's one way

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to get Brett perked up. 
You talk about the Tate Labianca

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murders. 
The guy can go on forever about 

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that stuff. 
And, and as can I, I mean, I 

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don't think a lot of people 
understand. 

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I mean, everybody knows what 
those are. 

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But but I'm a Californian. 
You're a Californian. 

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When the weather starts getting 
nice, I immediately think about 

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the Manson murders, which you 
shouldn't, but for some reason I

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don't think about them in the 
winter, right. 

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You picture a hot, sunny Laurel 
Canyon and freaks all the time 

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and so, So what Was that a 
similar way to why you wanted to

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start doing this? 
Was there a similar feeling to 

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that? 
You know, it's, it's funny, I, I

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started that, I started this 
project back in 2018 and that's 

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when I was still living in, in 
California. 

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And I mean, yeah, I mean, I 
agree with you. 

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Like I grew up at the beach, so,
you know, it's like always hot 

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and sunny there, you know what I
mean? 

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So it's like, yeah, it gets a 
little hotter in the summertime,

82
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but it's like always like 70° at
least, you know what I mean? 

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It's it's, but I think the thing
for me like the like the real 

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like kind of interest that I 
took in the in that kind of 

85
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story was, you know, you have a 
character who's, you know, a 

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military man, right? 
He's going undercover to find 

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his his daughter's killers, but 
he's going into like this hippie

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subculture, you know, and I 
found that like a really 

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00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:29,640
interesting dichotomy because 
it's like you, you've got this 

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like, you know, very like, you 
know, Cold War soldier, very 

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anti communist going into the 
belly of the beast of the hippie

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subculture, you know, and, and 
like what that what you have to 

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kind of do, you know, you have 
to give up your, your, your 

94
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ethics and your, you know, kind 
of your ideologies and you have 

95
00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:54,960
to, you know, pretend that 
you're something you're not to 

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try and find this, you know, 
these killers or whatever. 

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And living in California at the 
time during the first Trump 

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administration, that that was a 
very like, it was like, it was a

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feeling that I really felt like 
because, you know, you're kind 

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of like behind enemy lines, 
especially living on the coast 

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like I did. 
Yeah. 

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So I like, I really identified 
with the character in that, in 

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that way. 
And that's that's kind of like a

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like a lot of like what this is 
about. 

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It's like kind of like that, you
know, living in that ideology 

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that you don't agree with, but 
you you're surrounded by it and 

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you have to kind of like play a 
role. 

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You know, it's that's kind of 
how how it came to fruition, you

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know? 
Interesting. 

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So, so, So what, what makes you 
so when you're you're going 

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through that? 
And I think a lot of people 

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listening to this can relate to 
that. 

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Just that kind of mask that you 
wear the like the almost putting

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00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:44,560
plexiglass, COVID plexiglass in 
front of your personality a 

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little bit because you're like, 
look, guys, if I tell you it 

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literally 1 percent, 1% of the 
iceberg of what I'm thinking 

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right now. 
It was our nuclear warfare at 

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this dinner or whatever that 
we're at. 

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But you know, that brings you 
to, you know, one of the darkest

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times in, you know, at least 
California pop culture history 

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and and really just California 
history of the last hundreds. 

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So I think that's interesting 
going from there to there, 

123
00:06:05,280 --> 00:06:07,200
right? 
Yeah, I mean, you know, it's 

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that that's the other thing. 
I, you know, I'm like, I, I, I 

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kind of went down a rabbit hole 
when I was doing research for 

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00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:17,080
this. 
And I, I, I, I got an account on

127
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this website 
callednewspapers.com and you 

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00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:23,680
know, it's just, it's a library.
It's just like a full like 

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online library of like media 
from like it goes back to like 

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the 1800s, you know, and so, you
know, I started going back to 

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00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:35,920
like look at like old LA Times 
coverage of of Manson and Tate 

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Labianca and all that kind of 
stuff. 

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And that's something I wanted to
like infuse into it, you know, 

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like taking the media from that 
era. 

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You know, it's, you know, it's 
interspice into the into the 

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book. 
But you know, I like to me that 

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00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:53,800
almost gives you more of a feel 
for the for the era itself then 

138
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then like the way people are 
dressed or like the way, you 

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00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:01,680
know, the way the city looks in 
that period. 

140
00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:04,320
Like, especially when you're 
reading something like material,

141
00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:07,240
like I feel like, you know, you 
look at the like the ads and 

142
00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:10,360
like the newspaper headlines 
from that from that time and you

143
00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:12,840
get you get a much more sense of
like time and place. 

144
00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,760
So that was definitely something
that I tried to, you know, that 

145
00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:19,240
I am working into it. 
I mean, the rest of the book is 

146
00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:22,960
I'm still working on the, you 
know, the next volume and the 

147
00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:24,600
next couple volumes, actually. 
But yeah. 

148
00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:26,640
How many do you think? 
How many do you think it's it's 

149
00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:27,760
going to be total? 
How many? 

150
00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:29,600
Like just? 
It'll be 4. 

151
00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:33,160
So the, the second one I'm, I've
got the, I've got the first 

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00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:35,800
draft down to the second volume 
and that's, I'm hoping to get 

153
00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:41,040
that published in October. 
You know, I'm doing an Indiegogo

154
00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:44,880
campaign to kind of raise funds 
to help me, you know, get it, 

155
00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:47,120
get it finished, get across the 
finish line. 

156
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And then, you know, I think that
I think the next two volumes 

157
00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:54,000
will kind of follow quarterly. 
You know, that's kind of the way

158
00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:55,440
I'm mapping it out. 
Yeah. 

159
00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,440
So, but I think this is a good, 
you know, good introduction. 

160
00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:00,440
Absolutely. 
Where, where do you, where can 

161
00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:01,400
people go get it right now? 
So. 

162
00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:07,760
It's available on Amazon and 
then you can, if you wanted back

163
00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:09,960
on Indiegogo, You'll, you'll 
also get, you know, a physical 

164
00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:12,600
copy and you can get a digital 
download. 

165
00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:15,440
And that campaign runs for like 
another two weeks. 

166
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I think so. 
Cool. 

167
00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:19,640
Either one of those, yeah. 
Yeah, very, very cool. 

168
00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:21,520
Yeah. 
I mean, I've been fascinated by,

169
00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:24,000
you know, it's something I 
always knew about. 

170
00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:26,480
You know, Charles, you just know
these, like, loose names, 

171
00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:30,360
Charles Manson, Roman Polanski, 
you know, J Sebring, just these.

172
00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:32,559
And you're told like it's all 
connected. 

173
00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:34,360
And then there's people who are 
like, no, no, no, no, no. 

174
00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:35,520
It's connected, connected, 
connected. 

175
00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:39,120
There's these layers of of 
everybody has their own theory. 

176
00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:41,320
I think a lot of them are kind 
of correct. 

177
00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:44,039
But like there's just a couple 
things that like we just don't 

178
00:08:44,039 --> 00:08:46,200
have access to to actually 
corroborate them. 

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00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:50,920
But I love hearing, I love 
hearing how these murders can 

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00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:53,200
really just like reinforce a 
political ideology. 

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Whereas if you're on like the 
right wing side, it's like 

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00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:57,920
that's a bunch of drugged out 
hippies doing disgusting stuff. 

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00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:00,840
And look what it leads to. 
We told you look what it leads 

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00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:03,480
to. 
Which to be honest, that there's

185
00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:05,000
a lot. 
A lot of that is true in my 

186
00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:06,400
opinion. 
Like it's just a lot of. 

187
00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:08,640
That, that's kind of, I mean, 
that's kind of what I talk about

188
00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:10,560
on Brett's podcast, because 
that, that was kind of like how,

189
00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:12,760
how it was to grow up in 
Southern California. 

190
00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:16,520
Like, you know, Manson was the 
ultimate boogeyman and for Gen. 

191
00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:20,160
X, you know, my, my generation, 
like, you know, in high school 

192
00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:22,520
and stuff like that, that was 
always a dark cloud over 

193
00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:25,960
everything. 
It was always like, you know, it

194
00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:29,720
was kind of a, a cautionary tale
for, for our generation, you 

195
00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:34,040
know, and it was like, I, I feel
like yes, like on the right, 

196
00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:37,120
like the, the murders were kind 
of used as a, as a way to kind 

197
00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:42,000
of keep, keep us in line, you 
know, like stay away from drugs,

198
00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:45,800
you know, stay away from the bad
elements, you know, because this

199
00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:50,280
is what could happen, you know. 
Yeah, and and then you can you 

200
00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:53,120
put it with the I now I read 
Dave Mcgowan's weird scenes 

201
00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:53,920
inside the Canyon. 
Have you? 

202
00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:54,880
Read. 
Yeah, I've read that too. 

203
00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:57,040
Yeah, good. 
Which is definitely more from 

204
00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:00,200
you know, my biggest critique of
it is the maximalism of what of 

205
00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:02,560
his connections where I'm like, 
come on, Dave, come on, Dave, 

206
00:10:02,560 --> 00:10:04,320
like I don't you did not 
exactly. 

207
00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:06,240
You got a little lazy with like 
you. 

208
00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:08,320
I like he'll tell you some 
really, really good information 

209
00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:10,880
to go and that's why we don't 
have communism. 

210
00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:13,680
You're just like, well, what 
like, you know, like it'll be 

211
00:10:13,680 --> 00:10:16,200
like. 
But to be fair, I think both 

212
00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:19,760
theories have a little bit of 
have both have a little bit of 

213
00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:21,760
credence to them. 
Whereas, yeah, it was a massive 

214
00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:24,880
drugged out hippie degenerate 
thing that was seen that was 

215
00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,160
happening from a bunch of people
who ran away from their military

216
00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:29,080
families. 
Now, again, we might talk about 

217
00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:31,640
the maximalist of maximalism of 
all of them having these 

218
00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:33,280
military connections. 
It is fascinating. 

219
00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:35,520
But a lot of times it's like 
you're running away from your 

220
00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:37,200
military debt. 
Sharon Tate being one of those 

221
00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:41,000
people. 
And, and you have, that's a 

222
00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:44,320
perfect place for, you know, in 
the heart of culture in the 

223
00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:47,440
West, in, in the West of the 
United States to do a drug 

224
00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:49,720
running operation. 
And you're not going to do that 

225
00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:51,120
with just a bunch of lowlife 
hippies. 

226
00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:54,320
You need some big heavy hitters 
in there moving drugs, which I 

227
00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:56,480
think could have been aided by 
some government stuff, you know 

228
00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:58,600
what I mean? 
I, I genuinely think it was a 

229
00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,120
massive, you know, what are you 
5 hours away from Tijuana? 

230
00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:03,880
You know, and, and stuff like 
that, Like there's, there's it's

231
00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:06,680
very easy. 
And then I have a scary 

232
00:11:06,680 --> 00:11:09,320
paranormal theory, which I don't
want to, I don't want to get to 

233
00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:11,960
quite just this yet, but like 
the the, but you know, like, 

234
00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:14,840
what do you think about the 
whole McGowan thing with that? 

235
00:11:15,560 --> 00:11:19,760
Well, you know, the volume 2 is 
actually it's kind of set in 

236
00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:24,600
Moral Canyon and it's very much,
very much, very much follows 

237
00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:26,960
that theory like that, that 
you're talking, talking about, 

238
00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:33,080
you know, military industrial 
complex, you know, Lookout 

239
00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:36,840
Mountain, the Air Force Base at 
the top of Laurel Canyon. 

240
00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:40,120
That was a film studio like 
that, you know, that features 

241
00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:44,720
into it. 
You know, I, I, I don't want to,

242
00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:47,640
I don't want to give my theory 
right now because it's part of 

243
00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:52,200
the but but yes, it, it, it I 
definitely, I, I definitely 

244
00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:56,520
think that there was, there was 
some, there was definitely some 

245
00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:00,040
intelligence work going on. 
And there, there's definitely 

246
00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:04,000
some government involvement, you
know, I'll leave it at that for,

247
00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,000
for that. 
But but yeah, so I definitely 

248
00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:09,320
get into that in the next book, 
you know, but I, I definitely 

249
00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:12,440
agree with with that. 
But I'd like to hear your, your 

250
00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:15,320
supernatural theory because I, I
haven't heard it. 

251
00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:17,160
I haven't heard any of those 
really. 

252
00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:18,520
So we're. 
Going to get you right back to 

253
00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:20,840
the episode, but I just wanted 
to let you guys know of a few 

254
00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:22,880
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Candy industries. 

255
00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:25,760
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256
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257
00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:31,120
That includes Bob's Red Pill. 
That's the best thing going on 

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the Internet right now. 
Trust me. 

259
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Paid subscribers Get full access
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260
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that's just every episode. 
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261
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share with the general public, 
if you know what I'm saying. 

262
00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:43,640
Again, that's rare. 
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263
00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:46,080
We also have merch. 
That link's a little long for me

264
00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:48,640
to say right now, but go to the 
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265
00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:50,480
store and find a shirt that's 
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266
00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:53,600
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267
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Check it out. 
There's got to be something for 

269
00:12:58,280 --> 00:12:59,800
you. 
And lastly, check on social 

270
00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:01,840
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On Instagram, we're Rare Candy 

271
00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:04,320
Pod, but on Twitter we're at 
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272
00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:06,040
All right, enough of that. 
Let's get you back into the 

273
00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:14,800
episode. 
I'm into paranormal stuff, I'm 

274
00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:17,520
into cursed, I'm into cursed 
land. 

275
00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:20,640
I'm into the cursed land thing. 
I'm even into the fact that 

276
00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:24,200
America could be built and, you 
know, look the way like I'm not 

277
00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:27,560
doing this like epic, like 
genocide, colonialism thing. 

278
00:13:27,560 --> 00:13:30,000
But what I mean is like when 
there's a lot of bloodshed, the 

279
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,000
land can. 
I think the land carries that 

280
00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:35,800
bloodshed and we do have free 
will as humans, but like if 

281
00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:37,480
you're put in a weird 
environment where there's just 

282
00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:39,600
nothing but bloodshed and stuff 
like you could be a little more 

283
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,040
prone to that. 
So now we what what I like about

284
00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:44,200
what McGowan does, my favorite 
part of it is he goes into like 

285
00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:46,360
the history now. 
It's very disjointed and I wish 

286
00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:48,400
he was more linear in telling 
the story. 

287
00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:52,160
I like like the I just would 
have been a lot nicer but he. 

288
00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:53,600
He. 
He. 

289
00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:55,360
Talks about Houdini living 
there. 

290
00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:58,560
He talks about Dohini the oil 
guy and all these really weird 

291
00:13:58,560 --> 00:14:01,800
things that are happening about 
like the you had like like a one

292
00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:04,720
in two or one in three chance of
back in, you know, way before 

293
00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:08,160
the 60s of dying of like 
unnatural causes out there. 

294
00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:11,760
And this is before hippies, 
before, you know, before the 60s

295
00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:14,560
drug era and stuff. 
Like you're from a pioneer days.

296
00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:16,840
Right. 
And and then the tribes that 

297
00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:19,320
were there, you know, you got 
all a lot of bloodshed happening

298
00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:20,840
in these hills. 
And I just wonder if the land is

299
00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:22,960
just cursed. 
And what if there's stuff in 

300
00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:25,000
Laurel Canyon happening right 
now that we don't know about? 

301
00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:27,480
Like what if there's another 
another thing happening? 

302
00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:28,880
I don't know what's happening in
Laurel Canyon. 

303
00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:30,360
Right now, you know, it's 
pretty. 

304
00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:33,360
I actually actually lived in 
Laurel Canyon for like a few 

305
00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:37,080
months. 
This is like, wow, God, this is 

306
00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:38,920
like 24. 
I like, I used to live in New 

307
00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:40,240
York. 
I lived in New York for a while 

308
00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:43,120
and when I came back to Lai 
didn't really have a place to 

309
00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:44,280
live. 
So it's kind of like bouncing 

310
00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:47,360
around Airbnb's and stuff. 
And I wound up getting an Airbnb

311
00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,960
in Laurel Canyon, actually right
down the street from where the 

312
00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:54,480
Eagles lived. 
Oh, the where the where the girl

313
00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:56,320
where the young ladies were 
laying on the grass. 

314
00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:58,840
Outside, yeah, it was, it was 
Kirkwood Canyon. 

315
00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:01,600
It was right up the street from 
the, from the Laurel Canyon 

316
00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:06,520
Country Store. 
But yeah, it's a it's a very 

317
00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:08,760
weird place, man. 
It's, it's got a very heavy 

318
00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:13,520
vibe. 
Very, you know, I, I guess heavy

319
00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:15,480
is the best way to put it. 
Like it's just, it's just a very

320
00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:17,320
strange place. 
And I, I, I stayed there for 

321
00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:21,920
like a month, I think, and 
because I just kind of wanted to

322
00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:24,040
experience it, you know, because
I was, I was just like, you 

323
00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:26,440
know, little Canyon. 
It's like, so there's so many 

324
00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:28,200
things attached to it. 
You know, it's got such a 

325
00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:33,160
legendary, you know, history. 
And yeah, I definitely, 

326
00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:35,640
definitely felt some darkness up
there, you know? 

327
00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:39,560
And so, yeah, I mean, who knows 
what's going on nowadays up 

328
00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:41,400
there. 
But but yeah, a lot of those 

329
00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,160
canyons, Benedict Canyon too, 
you know, where, where the 

330
00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:48,680
murders took place, you know, 
that's where, I don't know if 

331
00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:51,120
you ever watched that show The 
Jinx that was on HBOA few years 

332
00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:53,800
ago. 
It was about the the serial 

333
00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:56,680
killer. 
I'll try to write that down. 

334
00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:59,520
I can't remember his name. 
He was like a really wealthy guy

335
00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:03,000
and he he was anyway, he was 
like murdering his neighbors and

336
00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:04,240
stuff. 
But anyway, he lived in Benedict

337
00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:05,520
Canyon. 
Like, there's a lot of like 

338
00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:08,280
really dark stuff going on in 
those canyons, you know? 

339
00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:11,560
And I think you're, you know, 
you might be on to something 

340
00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:14,240
about the cursed. 
I know you know, I I'm a very 

341
00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:16,240
big believer in free will and 
accountability too. 

342
00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:18,600
So I hate like saying a lot of 
these things and be like, well, 

343
00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:20,240
they just live there and that's 
why they did it. 

344
00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:23,360
No, it draws certain types you. 
Know what I mean? 

345
00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:24,800
Oh, it's like, it's like a 
magnet. 

346
00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:26,520
Yeah. 
Yeah, it's like when people go 

347
00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:28,560
to Alaska and they're like, wow,
you know how many murderers are 

348
00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:30,040
hiding out in Alaska? 
It's like, yeah, they're drawn 

349
00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:32,280
to it because you can hide 
there, you know, and, and like, 

350
00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:33,720
and guess what? 
They're freaks out there. 

351
00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,400
And then Jodie Foster comes and 
finds you and it's over, guys. 

352
00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:41,920
No, but the, no, the we were in 
the, you know, I, I think the 

353
00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:45,440
other stuff too that McGowan 
talks about in that book is the 

354
00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:48,440
like the underground, that like 
weird underground place. 

355
00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:51,000
That's I think I'm in between 
Laurel Canyon and Benedict 

356
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:52,760
Canyon or something. 
It's like that big underground, 

357
00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:55,840
like concrete, like bought where
the Aryan Brotherhood would meet

358
00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:58,080
up down there and stuff. 
And it was like the largest 

359
00:16:58,080 --> 00:16:59,880
private land. 
It was like one of the largest 

360
00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:02,680
private land, unowned land in 
Lai always thought that was 

361
00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:04,319
strange. 
Yeah, well, I mean, there's 

362
00:17:04,319 --> 00:17:08,040
always been talk of, and I, I 
actually kind of go to this in 

363
00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:10,319
in in my second book too, a 
little bit. 

364
00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:13,960
There's always been talk of 
tunnels underneath the Canyon. 

365
00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:15,560
Yeah, spoil your entire book, 
please. 

366
00:17:15,599 --> 00:17:16,240
I'm done. 
I'm kidding. 

367
00:17:16,319 --> 00:17:18,599
Yeah. 
Yeah, yeah, no, no, but, but 

368
00:17:18,599 --> 00:17:22,160
there's always been talk of like
these canyons under or sorry, 

369
00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:25,520
these tunnels that run through 
the hills going back to the 

370
00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:30,520
Prohibition 'cause, you know, 
there there was, you know, 

371
00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:33,640
gangsters bootlegging liquor in 
the hills. 

372
00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:37,280
And then they would use these as
tunnels to get it to the, you 

373
00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:39,000
know, clubs and restaurants on 
the strip. 

374
00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:43,600
So, yeah, there's always, I 
mean, I, I, that's never really 

375
00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:45,120
been confirmed. 
I mean that, you know, there's, 

376
00:17:45,120 --> 00:17:47,400
there's always there, there's 
talk of tunnels underneath the 

377
00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:52,200
Playboy Mansion, you know, So, 
yeah, I mean, I think there's a 

378
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,240
lot of stuff that we we don't 
know about too that are, you 

379
00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:58,640
know, we're not Privy. 
To apparently there's rumors 

380
00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:01,240
because like Manson was, was, 
was big in tight. 

381
00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:03,760
Charles Manson was big in tight 
with Dennis Wilson, who lived in

382
00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:06,160
the area, I think. 
And like there was thoughts that

383
00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:09,640
like Manson would use that as 
like, I mean, in his mind, there

384
00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:12,360
was going to be a race war and 
they were and he was going to 

385
00:18:12,360 --> 00:18:14,240
orchestrate a big race war. 
He was going to win it no matter

386
00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:15,160
what. 
He was going to win it. 

387
00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:17,480
And then that was going to be 
like a congregating area for the

388
00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:20,640
people who saw the real, the 
real world or whatever, whatever

389
00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:22,720
Manson was trying to do. 
So I was like, I don't 

390
00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:24,520
necessarily want to find out 
that that's not true. 

391
00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:25,800
I think that's fascinating. 
I'd love to. 

392
00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:28,320
I'd love to just leave that like
where it is like I'm. 

393
00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:31,360
Like, yeah, a little a little 
ambiguity, you know, certainly 

394
00:18:31,360 --> 00:18:33,080
helps for fiction. 
You know I. 

395
00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:35,960
Love it exactly that's why I'm a
fiction guy man like in the end 

396
00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:38,320
so the with the with the other 
thing too. 

397
00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:42,000
The First off, I, I fully will 
will not be swayed against the 

398
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:45,560
Playboy tunnels because I think 
if any man was going to build a 

399
00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:49,400
tunnel somewhere like with sure 
male testosterone will it would 

400
00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:51,280
be in the Playboy mansion. 
Like you would get that done. 

401
00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:53,400
You'd get that done like, no 
way. 

402
00:18:54,360 --> 00:18:57,960
No, I agree. 
You'd get that done. 

403
00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:02,720
So the, there's a pretty cool, 
you know, Paul Tate doesn't seem

404
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:05,560
to like the hippies very much in
your, in your, in your, in your 

405
00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:07,440
book. 
I, I, I think it's fair to say 

406
00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:08,880
he's not big into the hippie 
scene. 

407
00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:13,160
It's he he says, you know what? 
They're looking all every which 

408
00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:15,800
way from for who killed my my 
daughter. 

409
00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:17,280
The police don't really know 
what they're doing. 

410
00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:20,520
They're following all these 
bureaucratic laws in place. 

411
00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:22,880
I'm going to go. 
It's he kind of goes like it 

412
00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:27,000
kind of has the tone to me of 
death wish and hardcore like 

413
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:28,520
those movies like kind of 
together. 

414
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:31,720
And the hardcore effectively 
feels like Paul Tate trying to 

415
00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:34,160
find his thought. 
Because I mean, hardcore feels 

416
00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:36,560
like it's very much inspired by 
Sharon Tate because she does 

417
00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,920
Valley of the Dolls where where 
her character does pornography, 

418
00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,520
pornography. 
So it it always feels like those

419
00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:45,640
are tied together anyways. 
And it kind of it kind of feels 

420
00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:47,320
that way. 
So what's your feeling like? 

421
00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:49,840
Did you, you're a little bit 
older than me, but do you you 

422
00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,080
hung out? 
Did you know, like hippies? 

423
00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:53,960
Like just California hippies at 
the time? 

424
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,160
Like, yeah, I mean, my parents 
were hippies. 

425
00:19:57,120 --> 00:20:01,760
You know, for for all intents 
and purposes, I grew up, You 

426
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:05,560
know, I was born in Orange 
County, San Clemente. 

427
00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:12,200
Kind of kind of in the, in the 
shadow of of Nixon, you know, 

428
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:14,560
my, my father used to run a 
restaurant down in Saint 

429
00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:18,680
Clemente and Pat Nixon used to 
come in and, you know, she used 

430
00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:22,760
to hold me as a as a child. 
And, and so, but you know, they,

431
00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:25,200
they were, you know, they were 
all about hanging out at the 

432
00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:27,240
beach and playing volleyball and
smoking pot. 

433
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:31,360
And, you know, that that was 
that was kind of the the milieu 

434
00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:34,600
that I grew up in, you know, and
then, you know, we moved up to 

435
00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:36,760
Manhattan Beach when I was 
younger, you know, or sorry, a 

436
00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:39,840
little bit older. 
But, you know, their friends 

437
00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,360
were all hippies and, you know, 
some of them worked in 

438
00:20:42,360 --> 00:20:46,960
Hollywood, you know. 
So, yeah, I'm, I'm very familiar

439
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,440
with the boomer hippie 
aesthetic, you know, and, and, 

440
00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:55,040
and like Paul Tate, I, I kind of
resented, you know, now. 

441
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:58,440
Yeah, You know, it's weird. 
I I have a thing where I'm like 

442
00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:02,320
when I hear people who aren't 
actually around, those type of 

443
00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:04,400
people just criticize it from 
afar. 

444
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:06,400
I'm always like guys, come on, 
like there's a lot of cool 

445
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,960
stuff. 
Like I like, I love California. 

446
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:11,560
I like the California melting 
pot aspect. 

447
00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:13,760
Like when I was a kid, like 
these weren't Laurel Canyon 

448
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:15,560
hippies. 
Like this was in the 2000s and 

449
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:18,320
stuff, but you'd have people 
wearing hippie stuff, but they 

450
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:21,080
would be hanging out with guys 
like the wigger types. 

451
00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:24,480
And I loved that aspect where it
just didn't matter. 

452
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:26,400
It actually was post racial 
California. 

453
00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:28,920
It actually was what we strive 
to be for. 

454
00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:33,240
And so I've always heard when 
people go hippies is bullshit. 

455
00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,320
And the thing I hated about 
Mcgowans book more than anything

456
00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:39,240
was he pretends that the music, 
it was like a garbage. 

457
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:41,480
And I'm like, you know, yeah, I 
don't know, man. 

458
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:43,640
Like like these. 
I think some of these guys were 

459
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:46,520
a lot more talented than and you
need them to be not talented for

460
00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:48,920
this to work. 
So it's kind of it's kind of I 

461
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,720
didn't like that. 
But also when I'm around hippies

462
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:55,160
for longer than like a day, I 
wanted, I wanted, Yeah, I want 

463
00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:56,520
to. 
Yeah, I want to redact. 

464
00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:59,720
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
I get it. 

465
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:01,320
I get it. 
Where are you from? 

466
00:22:01,360 --> 00:22:03,240
Norcal then or. 
Northern California, San Jose, 

467
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:05,720
CA, OK. 
So yeah, you're, yeah, you're 

468
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:07,640
right, You're right. 
Santa Cruz is right down the 

469
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:09,200
street. 
Santa Cruz is of 30 minutes 

470
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:12,680
away, Hippie Bill I And there's 
right wing hippies in Santa 

471
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:13,880
Cruz. 
Like you'll go in the hills and 

472
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,720
there will be a guy that looks 
like the teacher from King of 

473
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:19,440
the Hill with like the long hair
and stuff in the tie dye. 

474
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,280
And he'll be making his own soap
with a Gadsden flag behind him 

475
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:24,080
and guns everywhere. 
And he'll be like, yeah, I'm a 

476
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:24,720
hippie. 
And you're like. 

477
00:22:26,120 --> 00:22:29,160
Yeah, I, I think you get, you 
get a lot of that too, you know,

478
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:30,800
closer you get to Oregon as 
well. 

479
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,920
You know, it's, it's, there's 
actually like a very strong, 

480
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,560
like right wing hippie 
contingent in, in Nor Cal that, 

481
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,360
you know, I, it's more inland. 
It's like the, the coastal is 

482
00:22:40,360 --> 00:22:42,720
where you get like the really 
liberal ones and the 

483
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:46,440
insufferable, you know, burnouts
from, from that era. 

484
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:48,360
But then you, as you go inland, 
you get, you get the more 

485
00:22:48,360 --> 00:22:51,600
conservative and kind of what 
you're talking about, you know? 

486
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:56,160
Yeah, it's so I, I've, but like 
when I'm around them and I've 

487
00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:58,480
been around them like I, you 
know, know, some people and like

488
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,000
you'll stay at a house for like 
an event or something. 

489
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,240
And no one wants to just do 
unorthodox things. 

490
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:06,320
Like you're just like, can we 
just do normal things? 

491
00:23:06,360 --> 00:23:09,120
Like can we just be normal and 
like smoke some pot together and

492
00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:10,720
just chill? 
Like, can we, can we just do 

493
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:11,960
that? 
But they, you know, it's just 

494
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,680
all the like those, you know, 
talking to hippies sometimes 

495
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:16,800
where they have that like vapid 
look in their face and you 

496
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:20,440
understand why everything looks 
like and and you you understand 

497
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:24,520
every time why these Co optings 
of their movements happen. 

498
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:26,560
You're like, I could tell you 
something right now that could 

499
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:28,720
blow your mind and you would 
believe it and make it your 

500
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:30,560
whole personality. 
And that's what like hippies 

501
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,800
back then. 
That's why they got infiltrated.

502
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,800
And we were talking about 
inherent vice where I thought 

503
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,000
there was somebody, I think that
had a massive misread about it. 

504
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,440
It was on XI was like, I don't 
you're not you didn't understand

505
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:42,520
what was happening in that 
movie. 

506
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:44,560
And I hate being the media 
literacy guy, but it is 

507
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:48,760
important that this person was 
saying that, you know, Once Upon

508
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,720
a time in Hollywood, Quentin 
Tarantino's movie does a really 

509
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,840
bad is really mean to the 
hippies, whereas inherent Vice, 

510
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:56,720
it makes the hippie lifestyle 
look cool. 

511
00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:59,360
Really. 
Doc Sportello has a lot more 

512
00:23:59,360 --> 00:24:05,080
Paul take to him in that in that
in that movie and novel than 

513
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,400
than people would like to admit.
It just looks really cool 

514
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:09,800
because Paul Thomas Anderson 
can't make anything that looks 

515
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:11,880
bad. 
So like, of course it's going to

516
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,400
look cool, you know? 
Yeah, I think, well, I, I think 

517
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:18,280
what I, you know, I, I, I can't 
quite remember what the argument

518
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:20,240
was with that, with that tweet 
that you're referring to. 

519
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:24,240
But I do remember thinking, you 
know, inherent Vice kind of 

520
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:28,320
shows you the, the, the, the, 
the dark machinations of, of the

521
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,400
hippie movement or what was 
behind it. 

522
00:24:31,120 --> 00:24:35,320
And Tarantino is only interested
in surface, you know, he's only 

523
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:37,960
interested in the image, you 
know, So it's two different, 

524
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,920
it's two different takes on, on 
that era, you know, So I, I, I 

525
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:46,400
don't think one is right or 
wrong or one's better than the 

526
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:47,960
other. 
You know, they're just, they're 

527
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:53,040
approaching it from, from two 
different angles, you know, but,

528
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:57,440
you know, I, I think inherent 
vice certainly has much more, 

529
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,480
you know, definitely in, in, in 
common with the hippie hunter. 

530
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,840
And that it's, you know, you're 
kind of seeing like the, the, 

531
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:07,640
the invisible hand at work with 
a lot of this, a lot of this 

532
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:09,200
stuff with it, with the hippie 
culture. 

533
00:25:10,120 --> 00:25:13,080
Whereas, you know, Tarantino is 
again, he's only interested in 

534
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:17,440
the Hollywood, you know, the 
surface, you know, the, the, the

535
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:21,160
image of it, you know, he's not 
so interested in that and, and 

536
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:22,960
the kind of the, the 
machinations of things, you 

537
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,200
know. 
Yeah, I think that's perfectly 

538
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,480
said because like, you know, the
the the Paul Thomas Anderson, 

539
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,960
you know, he's, he's, you know, 
the, the whole idea of inherent 

540
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,440
Vice is this guy is, it's the 
end of the 60s and we're talking

541
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,440
about a crazy. 
I I believe inherent Vice takes 

542
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:41,080
place actually in 1970, like 
right after the. 

543
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:42,880
Yeah, I think it's right. 
It's like right on the cusp. 

544
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,920
And we're talking about it. 
We're talking about a decade of.

545
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:49,640
I mean, it starts off Bay of 
Pigs 1961, Kennedy 

546
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:53,520
assassination, 1963. 
I mean all of these things, all 

547
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:54,200
of. 
These. 

548
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:56,120
Yeah, Yeah, everything. 
Yeah. 

549
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,160
Everything, I mean, what I mean,
you are if you think, I think 

550
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:03,120
we're in like crazy like end 
Times Now, like the 60s with if 

551
00:26:03,120 --> 00:26:06,320
we had modern social media 
coverage of the 60s, people 

552
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:08,320
would think the world was 
literally on fire. 

553
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:10,760
So, so when you're looking at 
this hippie guy who spent all 

554
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,520
this time kind of never 
collecting money from anybody, 

555
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:15,200
does he's like, oh, free this, 
free that. 

556
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,880
But then he sees that everybody 
else is like compromised kind of

557
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,800
or he's like actually just guys,
random guys that I see on TV are

558
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,600
hired to do this and do that. 
And it's really just the end of 

559
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:25,440
an era. 
And it's realizing like, oh, 

560
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:27,360
this couldn't be for the rest of
my life. 

561
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,320
The, the we have no rules. 
We have no structure. 

562
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:32,840
Somebody with structure will 
come in and ruin this. 

563
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:34,800
Will impose it, yeah. 
Yeah, that's. 

564
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,080
You know, that's that's very 
much pinch on too. 

565
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:43,240
You know, that's like yes, but 
that's definitely a kind of what

566
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,000
you're saying is like, you know,
this can't go on forever. 

567
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:49,520
I think that that that's kind of
like the the melancholy of a lot

568
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,080
of pinch on books, you know, is 
like, kind of like we'll, we'll,

569
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,560
you know, we had it really good 
for a while and then it it kind 

570
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,760
of got away from us, you know, 
and and it got Co opted and 

571
00:27:01,120 --> 00:27:03,520
yeah, it's I love, you know, 
Pinchon, it's funny. 

572
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,760
Pinchon, you know, he used to 
live in Manhattan Beach in the 

573
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:11,480
60s and I used to live down the 
street from where his his old 

574
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:12,720
apartment. 
It's still there. 

575
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:17,200
And, you know, that's where he 
wrote, I think lot 49 and he 

576
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,920
wrote, he wrote some of 
Gravity's rainbow there. 

577
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:25,920
And, you know, I just I loved I 
used to walk my dog past it all 

578
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:27,000
the time. 
Just be like, that's where 

579
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:28,720
Pinchon lived. 
You know, it's like so cool. 

580
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,400
It's so. 
Crazy how he just exists like 

581
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:36,440
and nobody, there's no, nobody 
has like sightings of him really

582
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:38,720
people. 
And he's he's a guy I feel like 

583
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,680
I would recognize like I'd like.
He's a very strange looking guy.

584
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:42,960
Like a guy. 
Yeah, he's very, yeah. 

585
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,920
He's total recluse, you know. 
Yeah, I just wonder, like, I I 

586
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:48,160
don't. 
And The thing is, I don't. 

587
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:49,640
It's classic. 
It's like his novels. 

588
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,520
It's all his novels seem to be 
centered around a conspiracy 

589
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,360
theorist, a guy who's seeing all
these things happening. 

590
00:27:55,360 --> 00:27:58,160
But then he he goes on this long
journey, loses everything around

591
00:27:58,160 --> 00:27:59,840
him and everything and then 
still doesn't really get the 

592
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:01,240
answer. 
That's technically, that's kind 

593
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:05,040
of what Lot 49 is with a woman. 
And and you realize you're like,

594
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:07,160
I don't want to know about 
Thomas Finchon. 

595
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,560
I want to be able to. 
I love the freedom that I Thomas

596
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:11,800
Finchon is what I want him to 
be, you know, exactly. 

597
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,120
You know, that's why I get some.
If there was a tell all 

598
00:28:14,120 --> 00:28:15,400
documentary, I'd be scared to 
watch. 

599
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,840
I'm sure I would watch it, but 
I'd be kind of disappointed, I'm

600
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:19,160
sure. 
Yeah. 

601
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,680
I mean, he's, he's kind of, you 
know, he's so enigmatic. 

602
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:23,800
It's like we were saying earlier
about, you know, what you kind 

603
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,200
of, you kind of invent your own 
fiction about him, you know what

604
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,600
I mean, which is, which is 
what's what's cool about that? 

605
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:31,680
Because they, you know, 
especially in this day and age 

606
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:35,360
of, you know, knowing everything
about everyone and they're 

607
00:28:35,360 --> 00:28:40,400
always 24/7, you know, on your 
screen, you know, a, a character

608
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:45,000
like that is, you know, I mean, 
doesn't exist anymore, you know?

609
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:47,880
No, it's very straight. 
It really bothers me. 

610
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,680
And I know the irony of someone 
who puts a camera in front of 

611
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,200
his face and says his every 
thought into it saying this 

612
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:57,640
right now, but the the the we 
can't have rock stars for that 

613
00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:59,160
reason. 
People talk about me too. 

614
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:00,480
People talk about all of these 
things. 

615
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,960
There's also an element of I 
would love when you would just 

616
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:06,200
to see when like, OK, let's take
Don Henley. 

617
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:08,040
Like Don Henley's a very famous 
guy. 

618
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,760
You know, you'd see him good 
looking guy, Stevie Nicks, all 

619
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:12,320
these things. 
But for the most part, there 

620
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:14,560
would be a publicity thing when 
his new album would come out. 

621
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:16,040
And then you'd be like, oh, Don 
Henley. 

622
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:18,640
And you were able to imagine all
these crazy things Don Henley 

623
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,040
was doing. 
But nowadays the the Don, I 

624
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:22,760
mean, there is no like rock 
nowadays. 

625
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,600
But let's say there was, you 
know, a new rock star is just 

626
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:27,640
going to have his phone like 
this and going like, what's up 

627
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:28,840
guys? 
It's Tuesday. 

628
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,920
Working on my album right now. 
And then you're just like, just 

629
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:33,760
let me know when it's out. 
Just let me know when it's out. 

630
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:36,720
It's the, it's the, I call it 
the end of mystique. 

631
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:41,000
You know, it's like, and I, I 
feel like we, we've like, I 

632
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,720
don't know if it's possible, but
I, I feel like, I feel like 

633
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:46,960
there's a trend now, like where 
people are kind of like getting 

634
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,280
burnt out on being online all 
the time and like sharing over 

635
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:54,560
sharing everything. 
And like, you know, I think 

636
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:56,920
that's again, that's why a lot 
of our culture suffers is like 

637
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:58,120
exactly what you're talking 
about. 

638
00:29:58,120 --> 00:29:59,360
They're like, there's no mystery
there. 

639
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:01,120
There's no mystique there. 
There's nothing that like 

640
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,000
intrigues me or intrigues an 
audience to be like, Oh, I want 

641
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:05,760
to pick that up or I want to 
listen to that, you know what I 

642
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:07,160
mean? 
It's like, I want to know what's

643
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:09,000
going on with this, with this 
person, what they're trying to 

644
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,800
say. 
But you know, when it's posted 

645
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:17,280
on X everyday and you know it's 
easily accessible, it kind of 

646
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,480
ruins. 
I mean, it certainly ruins 

647
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,600
celebrity, you know. 
Ruins it, ruins it. 

648
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:27,120
Ruins like processing of, of 
complex art, whereas like if you

649
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,200
you what immediately what 
someone will do is if they watch

650
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:32,600
you guys talked about it on 
Brady's now. 

651
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:34,640
So you watch Mulholland Dr. and 
you go I don't know. 

652
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,200
I don't know what happened. 
So you're going to go on and 

653
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,200
you're going to type. 
We're trained this way to go 

654
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,800
Mulholland Dr. explained. 
Yeah, somebody's thoughts about 

655
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:46,120
Mulholland Dr. which they might 
get the crux of what the movie 

656
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:47,400
is. 
I mean, it's it's once you watch

657
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,960
the movie a couple times, even 
once, like you can go, OK, I 

658
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,520
know what this is. 
But you, you, you kind of like, 

659
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,040
no, chew on it, sit with it for 
a little bit, watch it again, 

660
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:56,720
watch it again. 
You knew there was something 

661
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:58,880
intriguing about it, but you 
didn't quite know how to explain

662
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,400
it to somebody. 
But everybody has this maximal. 

663
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,480
I need the answer right now, 
right now. 

664
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:08,520
Or, and and that really shuts 
down your faculties, in my 

665
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:10,080
opinion, and your processing 
ability. 

666
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,400
And that's why I love fiction, 
because it takes me away from my

667
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:13,560
phone. 
It takes me away from. 

668
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:15,160
If I can put it away, I can put 
it away. 

669
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,240
I'm a. 100% with you man. 
And I. 

670
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:19,600
And what are you reading right 
now? 

671
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:24,000
What am Oh my gosh, I am reading
right now Libra by Don Delillo, 

672
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,000
another 6. 
Another six that right here 

673
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:31,400
behind me. 
It is damn good and and so I 

674
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,720
love that because I love Elroy's
American Tabloid. 

675
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:37,080
So like that just pairs like 
it's just a total different tone

676
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,800
of the same kind of story and 
just kind of self reflection of 

677
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,600
the characters and the different
style. 

678
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:45,960
So I'm reading that and then I'm
also, every night before I go to

679
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:47,920
bed, 10 pages of Gravity's 
Rainbow till I'm done. 

680
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:49,200
Oh nice. 
How far? 

681
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,720
How far are you into it? 
80 pages, 80 pages. 

682
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:54,120
I mean, it's like I have to sit 
there. 

683
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,720
I have to sit, I sit there and I
reread pages like I just go, 

684
00:31:57,760 --> 00:31:59,560
there is no rush ring to finish 
this book. 

685
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,480
And we are going to do a we are 
going to do a four part episode.

686
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:04,400
I'm doing with Bernard T Joy. 
We're going to be doing that 

687
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,840
throughout the year. 
Like, but I'm just like, I love,

688
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,240
I love pinching. 
I would never recommend him to 

689
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,400
anybody. 
Yeah, because it's I can 

690
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:13,880
understand why anyone would hate
him. 

691
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:15,520
Oh, absolutely. 
Yeah, yeah. 

692
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,600
It's it's, it's not for, it's 
not for the normie tastes. 

693
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:22,360
Usually, and it you know, you 
you gotta, I feel like I'm a 

694
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,440
pension character a little. 
I think you have to be somewhat 

695
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,360
of a pension character that he 
would put in there to, to truly 

696
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:29,280
enjoy it. 
I think like I feel like I would

697
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,960
be a weird radio DJ guy that 
like Thomas Pynch, sure. 

698
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,560
I would name like like Tom 
Flabbergast or something. 

699
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:40,480
And I like DJ who, you know, 
actually has a military family 

700
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,400
history that he you know, and 
and is taught to play records at

701
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:45,680
a certain speed. 
So where, you know, I just like,

702
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,760
I feel like I could be one of 
those guys And and it's the I 

703
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,080
love being dropped into his 
weird little world, which can be

704
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:54,120
frightening at times, but also 
like this is so cool. 

705
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:55,800
Similar to inherent vice. 
I mean inherent vice. 

706
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,120
I think he really gets that. 
Oh, yeah, yeah. 

707
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:00,920
But I, it's funny. 
I, you know, I, I tackled 

708
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:05,080
Gravity's rainbow a few years 
ago, kind of like very similar 

709
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,000
to like how you're doing. 
And I think Brett did the same 

710
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:08,920
thing as like, you know, I just,
I would kind of read like a 

711
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:12,000
chapter every morning. 
Like when I'm like, you know, 

712
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,280
most, you know, I've got, you 
know, I've got my coffee and 

713
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:17,320
like, I'm most, I'm most 
cognizant, you know, like this 

714
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:20,360
time of day. 
And it was such a pleasure, man,

715
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:23,640
It was so good. 
It was like, I just got to savor

716
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:24,880
it, you know? 
And it's like, like you're 

717
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,560
saying, like I would go back and
reread stuff, you know, no rush.

718
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:30,760
And I think that's the best way 
to read that book. 

719
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:32,960
You know, it's like you really 
got to, you really just got to 

720
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:38,200
like indulge in it, you know? 
And you know, I think I, I think

721
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,000
I got through it in like 3 
months or something. 

722
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:44,240
But yeah, it's, it's, it's 
daunting, I think to the, to the

723
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,680
normie, you know, who's like 
doesn't really know what they're

724
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:48,680
getting into. 
But like, if you, if you're like

725
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,080
you, you like, you love to read,
you like, appreciate literature.

726
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,400
It's, it's like one of the best 
novels ever, man, you know? 

727
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:58,640
And well, and I find to me and I
look, I'm all again, I, I could 

728
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,120
easily hit this roadblock upon 
all roadblocks. 

729
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,960
And I plan to I, I've, this is 
my probably my 4th or 5th of his

730
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:05,720
book. 
So I kind of understand, you 

731
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,480
know, the, I understand that if 
you can, you can read 10 pages 

732
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:10,239
and go, I have no idea what just
happened. 

733
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:13,600
But then 10 pages later, you're 
like, oh, you know, like, like, 

734
00:34:14,159 --> 00:34:17,280
yeah, there's this again there. 
They, they do a good job. 

735
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,520
Actually, his subreddit is 
actually pretty good because 

736
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:21,880
there's actually people 
discussing chapters and not in 

737
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:22,960
this. 
Here's what happened. 

738
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:26,400
It's oh, actually right here. 
I was thinking this, this, and 

739
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:28,760
it's actually very interesting. 
It's actually like good for some

740
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,719
reason, just not that Reddit. 
It's not that like Reddit tone 

741
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:32,880
of. 
Like I don't know, I don't use 

742
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:34,960
Reddit. 
I I had to look at it for an 

743
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,199
episode because I read V&V is 
tough. 

744
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:40,600
No, I I've read V2 and I 
couldn't tell you. 

745
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:43,000
I couldn't tell you one thing I 
remember of it. 

746
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:45,000
It is. 
It's AI think it's very good, 

747
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:49,360
but it's it that I found that so
far to be tougher than the 

748
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:52,840
beginning of Gravity's Rainbow. 
No, Yeah, no, no V Yeah, VV is 

749
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,639
very impenetrable, you know, 
It's definitely not the place to

750
00:34:55,639 --> 00:34:57,240
start, you know. 
Because I was like, what 

751
00:34:57,240 --> 00:34:58,720
happened? 
I was like, I straight up like I

752
00:34:58,720 --> 00:35:00,880
read the end of V and I was 
like, what? 

753
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,800
Like there's a, it takes you 
into like a whole mythology, you

754
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:05,360
know, mythology thing at the 
end. 

755
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:07,600
And you're, I'm like, OK, I just
need to let me know. 

756
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,520
Not I'll interpret it my own 
way, but like, what happened and

757
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:11,400
what happened? 
Yeah. 

758
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:13,160
So it was like that. 
That part's tough. 

759
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:14,880
But I, you know, and it was 
weird. 

760
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:19,160
The first page of Crying of Lot 
49, it's, I didn't think I spoke

761
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:21,520
the same language as him. 
I was like, I read it and it's, 

762
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:24,840
it's very flowery. 
And it's just about a, a, a guy 

763
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:29,080
having a, a statue drop on his 
head and he dies and he's the 

764
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,240
executor of a will. 
But you're just like, is this 

765
00:35:31,240 --> 00:35:33,080
English? 
And then after a while it's 

766
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,880
like, can I, can I shoot this 
intravenously? 

767
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:37,920
Can I, can I, can I consume 
this? 

768
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,000
Can I have this like Howard 
Hughes, like, pumped into my 

769
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:42,160
blood all day? 
Like, oh, good. 

770
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:45,400
Yeah, No, I, I think lot 49 is 
this most accessible. 

771
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,600
I think that's, I think that 
might have been the second of 

772
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:49,720
his that I that I read. 
And that's my favorite. 

773
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:53,080
That's my favorite Pynchon book.
But it's so good, you know, 

774
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:59,440
because it's, it's, it's a very 
like, it's a pretty simple 

775
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:01,680
story, you know what I mean? 
It's like, you know, it's, it's 

776
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,600
a, it's like a detective story 
basically. 

777
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:10,720
But the, the, the language isn't
too, you know, I guess it's not 

778
00:36:10,720 --> 00:36:13,040
too inaccessible like some of 
his other books. 

779
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:17,640
It's very short and it also kind
of like kind of takes place in 

780
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,040
Manhattan Beach, like in the 
60s. 

781
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:22,040
I mean, it's like adjacent, but 
so cool. 

782
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:25,600
You know, I read a lot of that 
into it also. 

783
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:27,440
I think that's probably why it's
my favorite because it's like 

784
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:30,920
you can tell like when, you 
know, Pynchon was working in 

785
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:34,960
aerospace. 
I think he was working at God. 

786
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,360
What was it like? 
Not not Raytheon, but like he. 

787
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:39,000
Was at Boeing I. 
Think Boeing. 

788
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:40,360
That's right. 
He was at Boeing, you know. 

789
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:44,480
So he, you know, he's, you know,
cool down Rosecrans to Hawthorne

790
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:45,600
and where the Boeing building 
is. 

791
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:47,840
And like, I know where that is, 
you know, so it's like I I see 

792
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,000
all that in that book, you know,
I think that's probably why part

793
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:51,120
of why it's my favorite. 
But. 

794
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:52,520
That's cool. 
Yeah. 

795
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:54,800
I, I love authors. 
Like because I have Steinbeck up

796
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,280
here, because I love those and 
like, you know, say what you 

797
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:00,200
well, people will be like, oh, 
that commie, I'm like, I dare 

798
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,480
you to read his shit and think 
it's like just communist 

799
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:03,600
bullshit. 
It's fucking great. 

800
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,920
And like, I, I, I and like East 
of Eden is my favorite book of 

801
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:08,520
all time. 
So because I just because you, I

802
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:10,480
can drive, I can tell you take 
you through the locations. 

803
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:13,840
They don't really change either.
Like it's weird like you go down

804
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:16,760
in like the Salinas, all that 
whole 1 area code and you're 

805
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:19,680
like, this probably isn't that 
different from when he like 

806
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:21,680
lived here. 
It's kind of it's kind of 

807
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:22,880
strange. 
And then you'll see like gang 

808
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:24,560
bangers though in like Steinbeck
town. 

809
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,520
You'll see like a gang banging 
Mexican guy walking into like 

810
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:30,760
some 1937 E of Eden market. 
It's like it's. 

811
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,120
Supposed for real. 
It's a Thomas Pinchon thing, 

812
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:34,000
It's. 
I was going to say it's. 

813
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:35,280
Like a contest? 
Yeah, sounds. 

814
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:36,400
Like a Pintron book? 
Yeah. 

815
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:39,360
It's so funny. 
I yeah, the lived in area. 

816
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:40,760
Like I know people that live in 
Texas. 

817
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,000
Larry Mcmurtry, right? 
Like Larry Mcmurtry will take 

818
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,600
you through Texas, the real 
Texas, the the Texas that people

819
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:48,760
find boring. 
But he finds so much life in it.

820
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,320
Like I love like I love authors 
that do that. 

821
00:37:51,720 --> 00:37:56,120
Yeah, yeah, No, it's especially 
LA authors. 

822
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:59,520
You know, I like, you know, 
Chandler does that, Brett does 

823
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:01,320
that. 
You know, I love that. 

824
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:06,040
I mean, Joan Didion, it's Elroy,
you know, I mean, there's so 

825
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:09,720
many great, you know, LA 
authors, but but yeah, and you 

826
00:38:09,720 --> 00:38:13,880
know, I read some of that too 
for, you know, kind of the vibe 

827
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:15,480
for the hippie hunter. 
You know, I read a lot of 

828
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:19,600
Didion, you know, read a lot of 
Chandler, you know, trying to 

829
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:21,840
trying to infuse it with a 
little bit of darkness, a little

830
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:25,920
bit of a little bit of, I don't 
know. 

831
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:28,400
Yeah, the seediness, the seedy 
noir of. 

832
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:31,520
Noir, Yeah. 
Noir tone of of what you did. 

833
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:33,800
Here it comes. 
But also kind of like the dread,

834
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,360
you know, like there's always 
like a dread that's kind of like

835
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,840
in the percolating in the in the
in the corners of sunny Los 

836
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:42,800
Angeles that I, you know, kind 
of want to try and capture so. 

837
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:46,120
Yeah, that that's Brett did that
so good with the shards. 

838
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:50,800
I I read I was like, Oh my gosh,
like I I haven't read all of his

839
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,480
work, but it's my favorite. 
Like I truly like was like this 

840
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,800
is OK. 
I I think if it came now again I

841
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,040
I haven't even read American 
psycho that's coming up. 

842
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:00,000
So I. 
Think you haven't? 

843
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:02,320
You know, yeah, I know I'm 
missing some of the core stuff, 

844
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,160
so. 
I I I do it for a treat. 

845
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:06,640
Yeah, I and like, you know, 
because I love rules of 

846
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:09,960
attraction, love less than 0 and
I love the shards. 

847
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:13,240
I love the whites I and I. 
And so I, I'm gonna, I, I'm 

848
00:39:13,240 --> 00:39:15,600
gonna get into all that stuff 
this year probably. 

849
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:20,160
But the the the shards, I was 
like, man, the dread of this is 

850
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:23,640
so good, especially of that age,
that age when you like it's, 

851
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:26,240
it's you know, what he does in 
that is he takes these kind of 

852
00:39:26,240 --> 00:39:30,440
like minor quibbles that you 
have with people you think are 

853
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,320
game seven of the World Series 
when you're young and you 

854
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:34,840
realize they don't matter at 
all. 

855
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:36,480
At all. 
At all but. 

856
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:41,000
Then something there is a killer
happening which adds like actual

857
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:44,800
real life ramifications to the 
story like and that's what I 

858
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,360
love. 
Like you don't I, I and you 

859
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,200
know, he, he, he, his marketing 
of it I thought was masterful, 

860
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:52,800
but I also think it takes away 
I, I don't think people can call

861
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:56,040
it as good as it is because it's
like a podcast book, you know, 

862
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,120
like, because he serialized it 
on a podcast. 

863
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:00,640
Some people don't like, treat it
like literature. 

864
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:02,760
I, I feel like I'm like, no, 
this is a book. 

865
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,800
It's, I have it right here. 
It's a, it's a huge book. 

866
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:10,360
I like I I loved it personally. 
Yeah, no, I, I, I, I, you know, 

867
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:12,520
I probably need to reread it. 
It's been a few years since I 

868
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:15,800
read it. 
I I think, I think the thing I 

869
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:19,680
love the most about it though, 
was that it's really about a 

870
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:20,680
writer. 
You know what I mean? 

871
00:40:20,720 --> 00:40:23,800
It's about writing fiction. 
It's about how writers create 

872
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:27,960
the reality that they, you know,
in their head that they exist in

873
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:33,160
and they put on the page. 
You know, certainly it's very 

874
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:35,280
Chandler esque too. 
It's it's, it's definitely got 

875
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,840
the Raymond Chandler kind of 
noir elements, even more so than

876
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:42,560
than, you know, less than 0. 
I feel like just in terms of 

877
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:45,800
like capturing the city and like
the, you know, the era. 

878
00:40:46,720 --> 00:40:50,120
But yeah, I need to, I need to 
revisit it. 

879
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,160
I, it's been a few years since I
read it and I, I've, I, I liked 

880
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:54,360
it. 
I was, it's not my favorite of 

881
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:57,400
his, but you know, maybe that'll
change if I reread it again. 

882
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:03,280
But you know, it's, I think 
you're I think I think you might

883
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:05,320
be on to something too about you
know what the way you kind of 

884
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:07,800
serialized it on the podcast 
because that's how I ingested 

885
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:08,640
it. 
Me too. 

886
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:11,240
First time. 
And then when I got the book, 

887
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:14,440
you know, and I I read it and I,
I told him I'm like this, I'm 

888
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:16,520
like, this is different. 
This is somehow different than 

889
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:19,560
the podcast. 
Like, it's hard to describe. 

890
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:21,280
And he's like, he's like, well, 
yeah, you know, they had to be 

891
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:22,440
edited and all this kind of 
stuff. 

892
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:24,640
And it's so, yeah, it's like two
different experiences. 

893
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:27,360
You're right, you're right. 
No, I, I, I did it twice. 

894
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:30,520
I read it twice, but through the
podcast, like I, I, I was like, 

895
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:34,880
I, I know somebody on Reddit put
like or whatever, like I put 

896
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,800
serialized all the episodes 
that, that the chapters are on. 

897
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:41,040
So perfect. 
Like that's I think it, I think 

898
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:42,800
it might be on his Patreon how 
you do it. 

899
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:45,360
And like, and I just did that 
and it's cool because like half 

900
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,360
the time it's like Amanda Melius
is coming up after this. 

901
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:49,320
That's kind of fun. 
You know, like I got like, it's 

902
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:52,800
actually kind of like, it's 
surreal, like maximalism of the 

903
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:53,800
podcast. 
Right. 

904
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:55,080
Because, yeah, because he used 
to do. 

905
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:56,760
He still had guests on after 
that. 

906
00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:57,680
That's right. 
He would do it as like the 

907
00:41:57,680 --> 00:41:59,720
monologue and then he would have
the guests come on. 

908
00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:01,720
Yeah. 
It's like a three hour, a three 

909
00:42:01,720 --> 00:42:05,200
hour episode or a chat, 2 
chapters of the shards and then 

910
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:07,200
yeah, yeah, Anakachian, you 
know. 

911
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:09,800
Like, yeah, but it was kind of, 
I mean, that was kind of perfect

912
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:11,480
for the COVID era though, you 
know what I mean? 

913
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:13,760
Because that was like everyone's
stuck inside or whatever. 

914
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:15,680
And. 
Yeah, and him reading it too, 

915
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:17,560
like him reading it is really 
cool because it's such a 

916
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:18,760
personal time. 
For him. 

917
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:21,520
Yeah, and he's just, he's just 
such a good speaker. 

918
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:24,040
So you're just like, oh man, 
this is, this is, this is good. 

919
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:25,800
And I, I, I haven't actually 
read. 

920
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:28,040
I bought a physical copy just 
'cause I want to have one, but 

921
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:30,600
I, I haven't read that. 
And I feel like that's going to 

922
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:32,400
be the same. 
So I think that's why it's not 

923
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:35,400
considered. 
I'm sure it's considered Canon 

924
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:39,000
amongst B EE fans but I'm like I
think it's it's a secret third 

925
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:41,200
thing. 
Yeah, you could. 

926
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:42,800
You could be onto something with
that, you know. 

927
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:45,440
Yeah, 'cause I. 
So you actually so you actually 

928
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:47,760
haven't read the book yet? 
Not the actual no. 

929
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:49,080
I haven't picked the book up and
read it. 

930
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:52,160
We covered it on here and stuff.
But I I read it through his 

931
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:55,920
unedited OK. 
So I'll be, I'll be interested 

932
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:57,920
to see if you have the same kind
of reaction that I did to it 

933
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,680
then, because it's it's, it's, 
it's two different experiences. 

934
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:03,600
Wow, and for and for some 
reason, like reading it didn't 

935
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:07,520
have the same impact. 
But I think it's goes to what 

936
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:09,880
what you're saying is like, you 
know, it's not his voice. 

937
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,160
He's not reading it to you. 
It's like it, you know, it's 

938
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:15,320
pretty, it's more produced, you 
know, the, the, the podcast 

939
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:18,400
version and then you get to the 
book and the book is definitely,

940
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:20,440
I mean, there's definitely some 
scenes that were, you know, cut 

941
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:23,120
out, there's some things 
truncated and it's, it's, it's 

942
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:24,600
just, it's a different reading 
experience. 

943
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:28,280
So you'll be obvious to hear 
what you think once you read it.

944
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:30,920
Yeah, no, absolutely. 
And and when you when you said 

945
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:33,560
about less than 0, less than 0 
to me is and I don't know if he 

946
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:35,280
meant to do this. 
I just think when you're that 

947
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,200
young, you just are what you 
read. 

948
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:38,960
And I I think even when you're 
older you are too. 

949
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:42,120
But like the Didi, I mean the 
Didion play it as it lays like 

950
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:44,640
in less than 0 have the same 
exact tone to me. 

951
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:49,080
Oh, absolutely. 
I mean, there's even like if you

952
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:51,280
read Slouching Towards 
Bethlehem, there's even like 

953
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:55,000
passages that he straight like 
just cribbed, you know, I'm 

954
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:56,000
bored. 
I'm bored. 

955
00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:58,040
Yeah. 
Have you read Slouching Towards 

956
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:00,000
Bethlehem that? 
No, I've only read the White 

957
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:03,200
Album and play it as it lays, 
but I love her, yeah. 

958
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:05,680
OK, yeah, you should. 
You should check out Slouch or 

959
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:08,280
yeah, Slouching towards 
Bethlehem. 

960
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:11,200
It's a, you know, it's a, it's 
a, it's a, it's a, it's an 

961
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:12,600
essay. 
It's about, it's about San 

962
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:14,680
Francisco in the 60s, about the 
Haight Ashbury. 

963
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:17,600
And it's all about, you know, 
she's kind of embedded with 

964
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:21,520
these hippies, you know, and but
it's like lesson, you know, 

965
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:24,200
reads like lesson 0, that very 
flat kind of tone. 

966
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:27,920
And it's, you know, vignettes, 
you know, I think it's like 

967
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:30,960
about 15 pages or something. 
But it's the the end is just one

968
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:35,600
of the most, I don't know, like 
devastating, devastating 

969
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:39,400
paragraphs I think I've ever 
read in about about the 60s. 

970
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:43,680
It's it's like, I don't know, I 
don't want to give it away, but 

971
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:45,680
yeah, you should. 
You should definitely definitely

972
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:47,480
read that. 
Yeah, no, she, she's great. 

973
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:49,760
And, and what I, the first thing
I ever read from her was her 

974
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:52,280
essay about like driving and 
traffic from the White Album. 

975
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:55,120
And I was like, wait, a woman is
like this, obsessed with like, 

976
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:56,720
driving. 
And the intricacies of driving 

977
00:44:56,720 --> 00:45:00,360
like this is phenomenal. 
Like, you know, plate is it, 

978
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:04,040
ladies is Yeah, it's all 
driving, driving, driving the 

979
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:07,000
freeways of LA. 
Yeah, cuz like only men talk 

980
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:09,000
about driving in that way. 
And it's like, and I was passed,

981
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:11,840
you know, the the weird, the 
weird fly over intersection by 

982
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:15,000
the 395 and you're just like, 
yeah, like, no, I've never heard

983
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:16,720
a woman and talk about that. 
You know what I mean? 

984
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:18,880
Like, unless you're there, 
unless you're physically doing 

985
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:20,600
it at the moment. 
But like this is just somebody 

986
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:24,280
who like and and again, LA is 
driving is half of your life in 

987
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:26,120
LA because you're just sitting 
in traffic. 

988
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:28,840
So, you know, like. 
It's the culture, yeah. 

989
00:45:29,240 --> 00:45:32,240
I don't think people realize how
long you spend in your car. 

990
00:45:32,240 --> 00:45:34,640
That's why the best scenes of 
Once Upon a Time in Hollywood 

991
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:37,680
are the driving scenes, you 
know, and, and just those side 

992
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:39,400
shots of Brad Pitt in the car 
and stuff. 

993
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:41,440
And you're just like, yeah, cuz 
that's LA is driving. 

994
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:44,680
It's not a walking city. 
I mean, you can, you can, you 

995
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:46,920
can walk through. 
To it, but it's nobody walks in 

996
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:49,840
LA like the song says, man. 
Yeah, exactly. 

997
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:51,800
It was funny. 
I meant to, I meant to bring 

998
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:53,480
something up about the right 
wing hippies. 

999
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:58,560
I have a an uncle who grew up, I
don't know exactly where, but 

1000
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:01,040
they, him and his wife had like 
an apartment. 

1001
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:04,040
And they used to like see The 
Beach Boys performing as kind of

1002
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:07,160
a party band, like together it 
would just be like The Beach 

1003
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:08,400
Boys. 
And then they became these 

1004
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:09,800
massive fans. 
These are like our hometown 

1005
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:12,320
legends, these guys. 
So they grew. 

1006
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:14,440
They grew up in Hawthorne. 
Then it must have been Yeah, I 

1007
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:15,480
know it was a. 
Smaller, that's where. 

1008
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:18,720
That's where my dad grew up. 
And oh, interesting. 

1009
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:21,680
He didn't go to the same high 
school as The Beach Boys, but 

1010
00:46:21,720 --> 00:46:23,640
you know, they were. 
Yeah, they were around. 

1011
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:25,400
They were around. 
They were just, they were part 

1012
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:28,120
of the scene growing up back 
then in the, I guess that would 

1013
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:29,920
have been the early 60s, yeah. 
Yeah. 

1014
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:32,080
And then they saw that one time 
they talk about this and you 

1015
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:34,960
never know, Boomers like to 
mythologize and lie all the time

1016
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:36,840
and I let them. 
So I have no idea if some of 

1017
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:38,800
these things are true or not. 
They said they saw Jim Morrison 

1018
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:41,640
just black out in some bar in 
like Santa Barbara once, which I

1019
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:43,600
believe. 
I mean, that's not out of out of

1020
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:45,880
the question. 
My dad has a Jim Morrison story 

1021
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:47,000
also. 
I think it's just part of the 

1022
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:49,480
boomer, you know? 
I think they heard it from 

1023
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:51,000
somebody and then they're like, 
that happened to me. 

1024
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:54,480
Yeah, you. 
Know maybe he was stoned and he 

1025
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:57,800
did, yeah, who knows? 
But yeah, they all, they all 

1026
00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:00,040
kind of like you said, they love
the mythologizing. 

1027
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:02,600
And I'm glad we, and you know 
what, I'm glad we can't Fact 

1028
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:03,880
Check him. 
Like I'm just like, that's fine.

1029
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:06,240
Like you, you get that, that's 
you've earned that, that right. 

1030
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:08,440
But I it's like the boomers on 
the East Coast that say they saw

1031
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:10,440
Springsteen in a bar. 
You're like, no, you didn't. 

1032
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:12,200
You did not go to the 
Springsteen bar show. 

1033
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:15,360
Those bars hold like 100 people.
People you didn't. 

1034
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:18,120
Stone, Tony, you know, yeah. 
Yeah, but so they were. 

1035
00:47:18,720 --> 00:47:21,720
They saw Jim Morrison, you know,
beach. 

1036
00:47:21,720 --> 00:47:26,760
Boys, I lost you again. 
OK, Am I back? 

1037
00:47:27,240 --> 00:47:28,520
Yeah, you're back now. 
Yeah. 

1038
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:30,520
Jim Moore, you know, said Jim 
Morrison. 

1039
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:33,320
The Wilsons, all these people 
have all these stories and 

1040
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:35,360
they're just right wingers. 
They're just Republican like. 

1041
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:37,400
But they've always have been 
through the 60s that they didn't

1042
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:39,600
have some radical phase. 
They're just been like 

1043
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:41,680
Republican. 
I'm like, that is the nuance. 

1044
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:45,080
There's a nuance of California 
that people just don't know. 

1045
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:47,640
I know people like this, that 
they're just like, they go to 

1046
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:49,200
Coachella. 
They go to all these things, but

1047
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:51,720
they're like, yeah, I'm just 
like, I work in finance and I'm 

1048
00:47:51,720 --> 00:47:53,000
a, you know. 
I'm a. 

1049
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:56,160
Yeah, I'll look in, but I'll 
wear like a feather cap or 

1050
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:58,520
something like I'll put on. 
The Indian headdress, you know. 

1051
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:00,400
Yeah, they don't care. 
They don't. 

1052
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:03,120
They don't care. 
Like they just, it's like, it's 

1053
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:06,080
so strange, you know, like 
there's always been that type of

1054
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:09,280
like of, of person, you know, 
where they're like, they're 

1055
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:12,000
going to like a Vietnam protest 
rock show and then they're like,

1056
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:15,920
let's bomb Vietnam. 
Like they're saying that at the 

1057
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:17,440
same time. 
Yeah, it's. 

1058
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:20,000
It's it's, it's kind of that I 
don't know, it's something very 

1059
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:24,880
California about that though, 
you know, it's like there's, 

1060
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:28,400
there's no real concrete. 
I don't know. 

1061
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:32,080
I don't know what you'd call it.
Like not an ideology, but like 

1062
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:37,520
there's no real like anchor, no 
to to a lot of that, especially 

1063
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:38,680
in that era, you know? 
Yeah. 

1064
00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:43,400
You just, you just and, and, and
look, Nixon's presence was, was 

1065
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:45,840
huge for that time. 
You had a Southern Californian. 

1066
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:47,800
Oh yeah, absolutely. 
And president. 

1067
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:50,760
So, you know, I, I can see that.
And then like, you know, my, my 

1068
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:52,400
uncle had a small business. 
He's not. 

1069
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:54,800
He's like taxes, but whoever's 
taxing me less, that's my 

1070
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:56,640
politics. 
Like, yeah, you know, he also 

1071
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:58,760
had the governor. 
He also had Governor Reagan too 

1072
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:00,880
in that period, you know. 
Exactly. 

1073
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:03,840
That's, you know, Reagan was a 
big, he's actually going to be, 

1074
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:06,840
he's going to be featured in one
of, in one of the I think 

1075
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:10,560
probably like the third book, 
but you know, taking because he 

1076
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:13,160
was very anti hippie, you know, 
like he, he, he kind of went to 

1077
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:18,000
war with them, you know, with 
Berkeley and, you know, setting 

1078
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:22,000
the stage for the 80s, you know,
and, and when those hippies grew

1079
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:25,560
up and then he was their 
president, you know, it's kind 

1080
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:28,040
of interesting too, when you 
look at it, but. 

1081
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:31,040
Yeah, yeah. 
I, I mean, I, I find I just 

1082
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:34,240
because nowadays, like you see, 
you know, when you go on the 

1083
00:49:34,240 --> 00:49:37,840
Internet and I see somebody 
who's like, I, it'll be of a 

1084
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:39,720
certain issue. 
It'll be like, well, I think X 

1085
00:49:39,720 --> 00:49:41,680
about that. 
And then people just go, you're 

1086
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:44,680
communist left wing. 
This they, they put, they attach

1087
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:47,440
all these things to you when you
just, when you give one opinion.

1088
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:50,200
And I'm just like, my uncle 
could tell you like 7 bands he 

1089
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:51,240
liked. 
And then they'll be like, oh, 

1090
00:49:51,240 --> 00:49:54,480
you're the hippie libtard. 
And they're like, no, no, I 

1091
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:56,920
mean, literally you would call 
me the biggest fascist. 

1092
00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:00,040
My uncle Don, you call him the 
biggest fascist of all time. 

1093
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,000
Like if you actually heard his 
thing, it's just, it's just 

1094
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:02,920
funny. 
Like there's this. 

1095
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:05,760
It's why when I hear critiques 
from people who didn't live in 

1096
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:07,640
California, I'm like, maybe 
you're cut and dry. 

1097
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:09,280
Maybe you guys are cut and dry 
in these other states. 

1098
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:11,760
I've only lived here, so I don't
know, but that maybe. 

1099
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:14,480
But people out here, there's 
just so much like free flowing, 

1100
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:17,880
even non hippie people, like 
they just, you know, you'll see 

1101
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:22,360
a guy driving a Tesla, you know,
or like a like a big lifted 

1102
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:24,800
truck, but it'll have like 
Democrat stuff on it. 

1103
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:28,880
And I'm like, what's like it's 
so it's there's a cognitive 

1104
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:30,320
dissonance. 
I don't maybe that's not the 

1105
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:31,720
right term, but there's 
contrast. 

1106
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:33,960
It's a very much a state of 
contrast. 

1107
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:36,440
I think and that and that again,
that's another thing I kind of I

1108
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:39,200
think I try to infuse in the 
hippie hunter as well as is is 

1109
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:43,840
taking that, you know, those 
dichotomies that shouldn't, you 

1110
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:46,880
know, shouldn't come together, 
but they still do somehow, 

1111
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:48,960
because it's all just kind of in
the air out there. 

1112
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:52,280
You know, I guess it's, it's 
definitely a very California 

1113
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:53,320
thing, man. 
That's. 

1114
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:57,480
I'd be, I'd be remiss to not 
talk to you about your, your 

1115
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:00,720
artwork in here. 
So I don't know enough of the, 

1116
00:51:00,720 --> 00:51:03,920
of the style of how to call 
things what it is, but I like, I

1117
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:06,720
like the, the style, the 
smokiness of it. 

1118
00:51:06,720 --> 00:51:08,520
Like when I was reading it, it 
looked very smoky. 

1119
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:14,360
It looked very hazy and stuff. 
And, and I, I don't know, I did 

1120
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:17,640
not grow up reading comics or 
any sort of panelled stuff like 

1121
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:21,200
that growing up. 
So, but it read, it read very 

1122
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:24,120
literary to me, which I liked. 
So it was, it was easy for me to

1123
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:26,520
for me me to kind of process and
stuff. 

1124
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:29,040
But like you're drawing like 
what would you know? 

1125
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:31,440
Have you always been just 
somebody who's drawn or was this

1126
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:34,600
something you picked up later? 
Do you have inspirations for 

1127
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:37,760
these these comics? 
Yeah, I mean, I, I, you know, I,

1128
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:40,760
I, I spent most of my career in 
animation. 

1129
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:49,200
So, you know, I always started, 
I started with animation when I 

1130
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:51,000
was very young. 
So I like I've, I've always been

1131
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:56,960
an artistic, you know, and kind 
of, you know, you know, made 

1132
00:51:56,960 --> 00:52:00,160
that my career for most of the 
most of my life until, you know,

1133
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:04,160
COVID happened and then, you 
know, things kind of fell apart.

1134
00:52:04,240 --> 00:52:11,080
But, but yeah, I, you know, like
visual storytelling has always 

1135
00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:17,560
been my thing, you know, and, 
you know, I, I love graphic 

1136
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:19,120
novels. 
I love comics. 

1137
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:23,680
But you know, with this, I 
wanted to do something that 

1138
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:28,160
wasn't so, I don't know, so 
comic oriented. 

1139
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:30,080
Like, you know, when when 
someone says comics like I, you 

1140
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:32,000
know, I think of like 
superheroes, I think of fantasy,

1141
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:36,280
I think of, I don't know, you 
know, just fantastical stuff. 

1142
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:39,000
And I was like, well, you know, 
maybe you'd try and do something

1143
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:40,800
like you're saying, like a 
little more literary something a

1144
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:45,000
little more, I don't know. 
I don't know how to quite 

1145
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:47,080
describe it. 
Like not not so you know. 

1146
00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:49,560
Sensible. 
It's grounded, it's grounded, 

1147
00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:52,480
it's grounded in reality. 
Yeah, grounded in reality and, 

1148
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:58,680
and grounded in history and 
maybe a little more, you know, 

1149
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:00,960
thought provoking. 
I I don't, you know, I don't 

1150
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:02,320
want to get you pretentious 
about it. 

1151
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:02,800
No. 
I know. 

1152
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:04,440
I know what you. 
Mean that that was kind of that 

1153
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:07,240
was kind of the, you know, the 
the thought going into it. 

1154
00:53:07,240 --> 00:53:09,440
And there's, you know, there's 
some, there's a there's an 

1155
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:13,760
artist named Darwin Cook, who's 
he was, he's a comma guard. 

1156
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:15,280
He's dead. 
He he passed away a few years 

1157
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:17,360
ago. 
But he his style was very like 

1158
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:25,000
mid century, kind of, you know, 
minimalist, stark, you know, 

1159
00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:28,040
style of artwork that that 
really influenced this. 

1160
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:32,480
And, you know, I really wanted 
to kind of lean into like the 

1161
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:37,400
mid century vibe of Los Angeles 
that I love so much and and kind

1162
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:39,520
of infuse it into the story. 
So that was part of it too. 

1163
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:41,320
Part of it was just like, I just
want to draw like that 

1164
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:42,680
architecture. 
I just want to draw those 

1165
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:45,040
streets. 
And you know, I want to, I want 

1166
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:46,840
to draw the tiki bar. 
I want to draw the Chateau 

1167
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:48,200
Marmont. 
You know, it's like just stuff 

1168
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:51,480
that I love visually that I 
just, you know, I wanted to put 

1169
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:53,320
on the page. 
You know, that's part of it, 

1170
00:53:53,320 --> 00:53:54,480
too. 
Yeah. 

1171
00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:57,200
There was a Roman Polanski 
cameo, right? 

1172
00:53:57,560 --> 00:53:58,240
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

1173
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:00,320
I like, I really like that one 
little Yeah. 

1174
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:02,960
That was a good, that was good. 
I like how you did that. 

1175
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:06,000
Yeah, it was, you know, I know 
you did. 

1176
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:09,240
The Polanski episode was. 
That was like a month ago right?

1177
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:12,520
Two parter, yeah, but. 
Yeah, and I, I, I couldn't 

1178
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:14,560
remember. 
Did you, did you address or did 

1179
00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:16,120
you ever watch? 
What? 

1180
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:19,480
We did not talk about that. 
I have not seen it. 

1181
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:21,640
You have OK. 
I was just curious because I, I,

1182
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:25,400
I don't know, like a few years 
ago I'd come across that and I, 

1183
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:30,080
I watched it and I was like, I 
mean, it's not, it's, I don't 

1184
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:33,040
want to say it's bad, but it's 
like a very strange movie. 

1185
00:54:33,240 --> 00:54:35,000
That's all I've heard. 
All I've heard is bad things 

1186
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:36,600
about it. 
Yeah, I mean, it's, I mean, 

1187
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:39,440
it's, you know, it's, it was, it
was, you know, three years after

1188
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:43,800
after the murders. 
But it's it's funny. 

1189
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:45,840
I was thinking about it today. 
I was like, it's almost like 

1190
00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:48,040
White Lotus in a way, because 
it's, you know, it's about like 

1191
00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:51,160
this like American girl that 
ends up with this like Italian 

1192
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:53,800
resort. 
And it's like all these, you 

1193
00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:57,440
know, lecherous men and like, 
you know, eccentrics and stuff. 

1194
00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:01,600
And I was like, yeah, this is 
kind of like Polanski's, like 

1195
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:03,560
White Lotus, you know, in a 
weird way. 

1196
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:06,120
But, you know, I'm not 
recommending it all. 

1197
00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:08,280
But I was just. 
Man, now I'm going to watch it. 

1198
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:13,040
Now it looks like shit. 
And like the the the actress, I 

1199
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:15,680
forget her name, but she's like,
she's like nude the whole movie.

1200
00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:17,800
Like she's literally nude like 
the whole time. 

1201
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:21,520
It's it's, I don't know. 
I think my, I think my guest 

1202
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:24,280
Cody had seen it and was like, 
yeah, it's not, it's just not 

1203
00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:26,880
that good. 
But like I but hey, there's not 

1204
00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:28,800
like a reason to watch sounds. 
Like, well, yeah, I was just, I 

1205
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:30,760
was going to say if you like, if
you want to be like the Polanski

1206
00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:32,800
completist, you know, you 
definitely, I think you 

1207
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:34,160
definitely got to keep that one 
in there. 

1208
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:39,120
His bat, his bat is so bad. 
I like and I he's probably in my

1209
00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:41,880
opinion, the most interesting 
filmmaker ever in my just in my 

1210
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:43,800
opinion. 
I think, I think just the stuff 

1211
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:47,200
that he, the, the stuff that 
happened is crazy. 

1212
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:49,520
Like, you know, and, and just 
the, I thought he got real. 

1213
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:52,360
I thought he stayed pretty damn 
good throughout the 80s and 90s.

1214
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:55,480
Like, and I thought he evolved 
and I thought he made great, 

1215
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:58,480
great films with and nobody and 
nobody ever wanted to stop 

1216
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:00,280
working with them. 
Like it was just, it was great. 

1217
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:04,640
Like I, I, I love it. 
But like the bad stuff is like, 

1218
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:07,760
wow, this is like, dude, like 
your misses are so bad. 

1219
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:09,120
But that's, that's just who he 
was. 

1220
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:11,360
He he thought he was big. 
He was just big, big, big. 

1221
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:16,880
Like, yeah, you know, I but I, 
I, I find his his greatest works

1222
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:20,280
in my opinion. 
Like they are among my top films

1223
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:21,240
ever like. 
What? 

1224
00:56:21,240 --> 00:56:23,360
What's your? 
What's your #1 Chinatown or? 

1225
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:27,000
You, you kind of have to speak 
objectively and say Chinatown 

1226
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:30,160
like cuz if I try to get weird 
like I love Chinatown, I can 

1227
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:33,000
watch it anytime. 
You can put it on all the time. 

1228
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:36,400
To me, The Tenant is the 
creepiest, weirdest movie. 

1229
00:56:36,720 --> 00:56:41,080
I just, I find that to be so. 
I find it to be this like flu. 

1230
00:56:41,080 --> 00:56:42,760
I feel like I have the flu when 
I watch it. 

1231
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:46,400
Like it's just so odd and I keep
thinking about it all the time. 

1232
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:49,520
I love Bitter Moon a lot. 
That was a new revelation for 

1233
00:56:49,520 --> 00:56:51,680
me. 
I love Death in the Maiden I 

1234
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:54,480
think is fantastic. 
And I just, I, I love all of 

1235
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:55,880
those Rose. 
I mean, it's tough to beat 

1236
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:57,840
Rosemary's Baby. 
Like I actually like that more 

1237
00:56:57,840 --> 00:56:59,840
than The Exorcist in terms of 
classic horror. 

1238
00:56:59,920 --> 00:57:01,920
Just to me. 
Personally, it's scarier to me. 

1239
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:03,160
It's like. 
Creepier. 

1240
00:57:03,480 --> 00:57:07,000
Yeah, like the Exorcist, I don't
get scared by that stuff a lot 

1241
00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:08,320
like, yeah. 
Did you? 

1242
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:10,400
Did you watch? 
Did you watch his Macbeth? 

1243
00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:14,520
I I not for the episode, but I 
have since and it's I I I 

1244
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:16,720
actually like it. 
Like I think I think it's pretty

1245
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:18,640
good. 
I I was I was expecting to be 

1246
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:21,080
like, Oh God, this is boring. 
I actually liked it. 

1247
00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:23,440
No, I I liked it too that that 
was actually his first film 

1248
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:25,160
after the murders and. 
Right after. 

1249
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:26,840
Yeah, his right. 
After and there's there's 

1250
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:30,720
there's a lot you can read into 
that, you know, but I think it's

1251
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:31,480
probably. 
By Playboy. 

1252
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:34,480
Put on by Playboy. 
Well, I, Hugh Hefner I think, 

1253
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:36,320
produced it. 
Yeah, yeah, It was put out by 

1254
00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:39,560
Playboy, which is very it's 
there's always so many just odd 

1255
00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:43,200
things happening around the guy.
And like, you know, he's in 

1256
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:46,640
every like weird, weird scene 
and he's very prominent figure 

1257
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:48,440
in Laurel Canyon. 
There's people like he never 

1258
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:51,240
talks about doing a bunch of 
drugs, but like you're always, 

1259
00:57:51,240 --> 00:57:53,680
he's just constantly around 
people doing drugs and stuff 

1260
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:57,280
like yeah, it's just and and you
know, he was had had his 

1261
00:57:57,280 --> 00:57:58,520
proclivities. 
Absolutely. 

1262
00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:07,920
From the five to the six we've 
been without making me pay your 

1263
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:14,080
job on the way. 
I need food for the kids, money 

1264
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:17,800
for the rent of a girl like I've
been. 

1265
00:58:26,720 --> 00:58:29,840
Anyways, you talked about COVID 
kind of stopping something in 

1266
00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:33,720
your, in your, in your life The,
you know, can you, can you get 

1267
00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:35,240
into any of that? 
I'm always fascinated by 

1268
00:58:35,240 --> 00:58:41,080
people's COVID story. 
Well, so I was, I was a creative

1269
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:46,680
director and an, an animator for
a, for a, an education website 

1270
00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:52,840
that was kind of based at 
Stanford and working remotely. 

1271
00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:58,880
And I've been with them for 
about like a decade, you know, 

1272
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:04,400
about 10 years. 
And, you know, COVID happened. 

1273
00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:10,680
And then, you know, like Paul 
Tate, I was very undercover with

1274
00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:13,400
that group because, you know, 
there were, you know, Stanford, 

1275
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:17,000
I mean, there were, I know we're
talking like, you know, 

1276
00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:20,920
hardcore. 
They had their own 

1277
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:24,400
misinformation observatory that 
was erected at Stanford that 

1278
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:26,800
just now got defunded, which I 
am aware. 

1279
00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:33,440
Yes, but the COVID kind of gosh,
how do I put it? 

1280
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:37,480
I guess it kind of like removed 
my camouflage, you know, and, 

1281
00:59:37,520 --> 00:59:43,840
and, and, and, and I think they,
they never really, never really 

1282
00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:46,320
came out and, and said it, but 
I, I think they kind of became 

1283
00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:52,960
aware of my, my worldview. 
And it was not, it was not an 

1284
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:56,880
amicable parting, but but yeah, 
it was, it was unfortunate. 

1285
00:59:56,880 --> 00:59:58,920
I mean, you know, it, it was 
just when I, I think it was 

1286
00:59:58,920 --> 01:00:01,280
bound to happen sooner or later 
anyway, just because of the way 

1287
01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:07,600
the the culture was percolating.
But but yeah, COVID, COVID like 

1288
01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:09,800
really just kind of drove a 
stake through that, you know, 

1289
01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:12,760
that that was, you know, like I 
said, that was like a good ten 

1290
01:00:12,760 --> 01:00:15,720
years that I was, I was, I was 
doing that and I had like full 

1291
01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:20,320
creative control and. 
You know, was making good money 

1292
01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:24,560
and it was just, you know, it 
was it was kind of a kind of 

1293
01:00:24,560 --> 01:00:27,720
like blew up my life in a way, 
you know, which is, you know, 

1294
01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:32,240
but that's the way it goes. 
I guess it's it just, you know, 

1295
01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:37,240
the vaccine thing came into play
and sure, you know, I wasn't, I 

1296
01:00:37,240 --> 01:00:39,760
wasn't having it. 
And then, you know, they kind of

1297
01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:41,360
let me go like not long after 
that. 

1298
01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:44,720
So I think that was kind of the 
final, final straw, you know, 

1299
01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:47,960
But, you know, I, but it's funny
though, 'cause like, you know, I

1300
01:00:47,960 --> 01:00:49,920
look at it now and I, you know, 
I look at all the stuff that 

1301
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:52,080
Doge is doing with like, USAID 
and all that. 

1302
01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:53,840
And I'm like, you know what, 
these guys were probably like, 

1303
01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:57,320
these guys were probably getting
funded by USAID and they were 

1304
01:00:57,320 --> 01:01:00,520
probably siphoning federal money
from something for, you know, 

1305
01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:03,560
'cause it was through Stanford. 
So I, you know, who knows? 

1306
01:01:03,560 --> 01:01:05,480
But yeah. 
Yeah. 

1307
01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:09,520
So, you know, the way I look at 
it was like, well, you know, 

1308
01:01:09,520 --> 01:01:11,120
maybe it's a blessing in 
disguise. 

1309
01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:14,680
You know, you. 
Figure you figure like anybody 

1310
01:01:14,680 --> 01:01:17,480
who it doesn't matter what side 
of the coin you are on COVID, it

1311
01:01:17,480 --> 01:01:19,560
doesn't matter if you're wiping 
your groceries down still in 

1312
01:01:19,560 --> 01:01:22,560
2025 it was an accelerationist 
thing like this thing 

1313
01:01:22,560 --> 01:01:27,040
accelerated a lot of kind of 
brooding things like like where 

1314
01:01:27,160 --> 01:01:29,680
if you had a friend group and it
was like for a while you guys 

1315
01:01:29,680 --> 01:01:32,280
could kind of if you were just 
milk toast on social media and 

1316
01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:35,040
they were just blah blah blah, 
blah blah like talking all their

1317
01:01:35,040 --> 01:01:37,000
all their stuff. 
If you just kind of pretended to

1318
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:40,080
not care about anything, yeah, 
it could be civil. 

1319
01:01:40,240 --> 01:01:42,640
Now, when it comes down to like 
getting a shot, like I would 

1320
01:01:42,640 --> 01:01:44,760
have people ask me in public and
they say, are you going to take 

1321
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:45,560
the vaccine? 
I go no. 

1322
01:01:46,120 --> 01:01:49,000
And they go, why I go, it's none
of your fucking business is why 

1323
01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:51,640
I'll be glad to explain to you, 
but I know you don't. 

1324
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:53,040
You're not going to listen to 
me. 

1325
01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:55,840
So I'll say no, I'm not going to
and I'm not participating in 

1326
01:01:55,840 --> 01:01:59,400
your humiliation ritual. 
And and and if you consider that

1327
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:02,440
the condition of our friendship,
then we're not friends. 

1328
01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:04,520
Yeah. 
So, and it sucks when you have a

1329
01:02:04,520 --> 01:02:06,440
career attached to it because 
when we're talking about money, 

1330
01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:09,480
we're talking about things that 
are very much akin to you. 

1331
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:12,320
These are your things, but these
are attached to their view of 

1332
01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:15,160
you, which is really, really 
psychologically my It's 

1333
01:02:15,160 --> 01:02:16,320
Polanski. 
It's a Polanski film. 

1334
01:02:16,320 --> 01:02:19,520
It's like very mind bending 
hands grabbing out at you, you 

1335
01:02:19,560 --> 01:02:20,480
know? 
Yeah, yeah. 

1336
01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:23,640
No, I mean, I, you know, I, I 
lost, I lost a lot of like, like

1337
01:02:23,640 --> 01:02:26,920
really good friends from over 
the vaccine stuff. 

1338
01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:30,040
You know, people like people I 
grew up with people who, you 

1339
01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:34,200
know, I, you know, I had AI had 
a close friend who, you know, 

1340
01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:37,080
his mom had passed away about a 
year before, you know, and I was

1341
01:02:37,080 --> 01:02:39,040
like, you know, in the hospital 
with him. 

1342
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:41,680
You know, the, the, you know, 
before she passed, she had 

1343
01:02:41,680 --> 01:02:46,440
pancreatic cancer. 
And, you know, a year later, 

1344
01:02:46,440 --> 01:02:49,760
the, the vaccine thing comes up 
and then that, you know, we had 

1345
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:51,280
a big falling out. 
And I haven't talked to him 

1346
01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:53,360
since. 
You know, it's, it's, there's a 

1347
01:02:53,360 --> 01:02:55,000
lot of that though. 
You know, it's, it's, I'm not 

1348
01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:57,520
alone in that. 
But no, but you're right. 

1349
01:02:57,520 --> 01:03:00,560
It, it, it really it just, it 
kind of, I feel like the first 

1350
01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:02,880
Trump administration was kind of
like the, the initial. 

1351
01:03:02,880 --> 01:03:03,840
Yeah. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

1352
01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:06,800
SIM simmering, you know, and 
then the COVID thing just boiled

1353
01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:09,840
over and that that was kind of 
like the ripping the Band-Aid 

1354
01:03:09,840 --> 01:03:13,400
off moment where it's like, OK, 
this is this is, this is what's 

1355
01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:17,440
going to separate, you know, a 
lot of people from their pasts 

1356
01:03:17,440 --> 01:03:20,840
and from their, you know, what 
they're what they grew up with 

1357
01:03:20,840 --> 01:03:23,560
and friendships and 
relationships and careers. 

1358
01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:27,560
And it was definitely, you know,
the fault, you know the fault 

1359
01:03:27,560 --> 01:03:30,600
point, you know. 
Yeah, well, you, you have a bit 

1360
01:03:30,600 --> 01:03:33,280
of a less than 0 moment where 
you realize you're like, oh, 

1361
01:03:33,280 --> 01:03:36,880
this, these aren't my friends. 
This isn't where I want. 

1362
01:03:36,920 --> 01:03:41,800
To. 
Be all right the I think it's 

1363
01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:43,240
still recording, but you got me 
now. 

1364
01:03:43,640 --> 01:03:46,280
Yeah, you're back now, OK. 
The, the, there's like a less 

1365
01:03:46,280 --> 01:03:47,880
than 0. 
Like it's, it's just like when 

1366
01:03:47,880 --> 01:03:49,440
you, when you take it back, 
you're like, these aren't my 

1367
01:03:49,440 --> 01:03:51,200
friends. 
These aren't my, these aren't 

1368
01:03:51,240 --> 01:03:53,840
who I'm going to be around. 
And there's that shocking 

1369
01:03:53,840 --> 01:03:56,440
realization of the ripping the 
Band-Aid off feeling where 

1370
01:03:56,440 --> 01:03:57,600
you're like, this is going to 
hurt. 

1371
01:03:57,600 --> 01:04:00,520
This is going to hurt. 
And it does hurt because deep 

1372
01:04:00,520 --> 01:04:03,560
down as AI, we were the more 
principled side. 

1373
01:04:03,560 --> 01:04:06,560
And I feel fine saying that. 
And it would have taken a lot 

1374
01:04:06,560 --> 01:04:09,520
for me to disown my friend. 
In fact, I dealt with their Lib 

1375
01:04:09,520 --> 01:04:12,880
tard bullshit the entire time. 
And I didn't disown them right 

1376
01:04:12,880 --> 01:04:14,520
like we were. 
We allowed them to do it. 

1377
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:16,520
We allowed them to do it, to say
all these things to us. 

1378
01:04:16,560 --> 01:04:19,160
And then the minute you don't 
play the Simon Says game with 

1379
01:04:19,160 --> 01:04:23,120
them, yeah, it's over. 
I that's the part I still can't 

1380
01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:24,800
get over. 
Yeah, I mean, you know, Brett, 

1381
01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:26,120
Brett writes about that in 
white. 

1382
01:04:26,400 --> 01:04:27,040
Yeah. 
Oh, yeah. 

1383
01:04:27,440 --> 01:04:30,480
You know, I'm, I mean, I'm one 
of the people in the, in the 

1384
01:04:30,480 --> 01:04:32,920
final chapter that he, you know,
we have dinner. 

1385
01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:36,080
He writes about, he writes about
one of our dinners that we had. 

1386
01:04:36,080 --> 01:04:37,840
We're, you know, we're talking 
about this because he, he 

1387
01:04:37,840 --> 01:04:40,520
experienced this too. 
You know, it's like that. 

1388
01:04:40,520 --> 01:04:43,320
I think he questions, sorry, he 
posits the question in that 

1389
01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:51,040
chapter of, you know, where, if,
if they, if they don't agree or 

1390
01:04:51,040 --> 01:04:53,680
if they can't accept my, my, you
know, my opinion or my world 

1391
01:04:53,680 --> 01:04:56,640
view on this, you know, where 
they are friends to begin with. 

1392
01:04:56,680 --> 01:05:00,040
You know, it's like, I forget 
how he phrased it, but it, it is

1393
01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:04,720
very true of that era. 
It was like, you know, have we 

1394
01:05:04,720 --> 01:05:06,280
have we really been friends this
whole time? 

1395
01:05:06,280 --> 01:05:10,440
Or is this, has this just been 
a, you know, a facade? 

1396
01:05:10,440 --> 01:05:14,120
Because I kind of went along 
with the, the, you know, the 

1397
01:05:14,120 --> 01:05:15,480
herd, I guess, you know what I 
mean? 

1398
01:05:15,480 --> 01:05:17,280
It's I don't know. 
Yeah. 

1399
01:05:17,520 --> 01:05:19,760
It's like he he phrases it 
better than I'm, I'm mumbling 

1400
01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:22,320
about. 
But, you know, he, he, he covers

1401
01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:25,080
that in that book really well, I
think, you know. 

1402
01:05:25,680 --> 01:05:27,960
I used to be able to argue with 
my friends politically all the 

1403
01:05:28,360 --> 01:05:29,400
time. 
Like it what? 

1404
01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:31,840
No matter what I believed in, 
like we, you would have a thing.

1405
01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:33,440
And yeah, it could. 
I'm not saying it would never 

1406
01:05:33,440 --> 01:05:34,520
get heated, but it would get 
heated. 

1407
01:05:34,520 --> 01:05:36,280
And guess what? 
Tomorrow we'd hang out and make 

1408
01:05:36,280 --> 01:05:39,080
fun of, make fun of that 
argument that we had. 

1409
01:05:39,320 --> 01:05:40,640
Yeah, You know what I mean? 
Like like. 

1410
01:05:40,760 --> 01:05:44,200
Like that, that unfortunately 
those, I don't know, I mean, I, 

1411
01:05:44,320 --> 01:05:49,960
I, I think, I think the 
tribalism of it has, has finally

1412
01:05:50,280 --> 01:05:54,080
hardened at this point. 
It's like we all know which side

1413
01:05:54,080 --> 01:05:55,960
we're on now. 
Whereas back then it was still 

1414
01:05:55,960 --> 01:05:58,360
kind of like, well, maybe we can
still kind of play in the same 

1415
01:05:58,360 --> 01:06:03,400
playground and you know, kind of
pretends like we can get along. 

1416
01:06:03,400 --> 01:06:07,640
But, you know, I, I think those,
those days are, are, are not 

1417
01:06:07,640 --> 01:06:10,320
coming back. 
Well, and that brings me and 

1418
01:06:10,320 --> 01:06:13,760
everybody we have people on that
have their own publication stuff

1419
01:06:13,760 --> 01:06:16,880
that they're trying to do 
independent of the current 

1420
01:06:17,080 --> 01:06:19,640
construct of media, you know, 
like publishing houses are 

1421
01:06:19,960 --> 01:06:24,440
they're they published certain 
authors, certain looks, certain 

1422
01:06:24,440 --> 01:06:27,560
nationalities, certain creeds, 
certain sexualities, but they're

1423
01:06:27,560 --> 01:06:29,520
not really thriving. 
You know what I'm saying? 

1424
01:06:29,520 --> 01:06:32,000
Like they're not, you're not 
seeing, you're not seeing the 

1425
01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:34,800
novels fly off the shelf. 
So I do think it opens an Ave., 

1426
01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:37,440
even though it's a little bit 
harder, but I think it's a more 

1427
01:06:37,440 --> 01:06:40,280
fulfilling to publish your own 
stuff to do all of these things.

1428
01:06:40,280 --> 01:06:42,800
So I mean, do you anticipate 
getting, I mean, what you wrote 

1429
01:06:42,800 --> 01:06:45,440
a book that'll scare people away
to begin with, because it's, you

1430
01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:47,920
know, like people will read it 
and go that's mean to the 

1431
01:06:47,920 --> 01:06:50,520
hippies, you know what I mean, 
or that this guy's right wing or

1432
01:06:50,520 --> 01:06:53,320
something like that. 
So that might insulate them away

1433
01:06:53,320 --> 01:06:56,120
for but like, you know, do you 
anticipate coming in, you know, 

1434
01:06:56,120 --> 01:06:58,000
if this gets as far as you want 
it to go? 

1435
01:06:58,000 --> 01:07:00,360
Do you anticipate having to 
confront these types of people 

1436
01:07:00,360 --> 01:07:02,360
again that you lost during 
COVID? 

1437
01:07:02,360 --> 01:07:04,560
Because just that's putting art 
out into the world. 

1438
01:07:04,720 --> 01:07:06,920
A lot of art people are 
completely gone. 

1439
01:07:07,560 --> 01:07:10,160
Yeah, no, I don't, I don't know.
I, I think if anything, I'd, I 

1440
01:07:10,160 --> 01:07:14,520
would have to confront, you 
know, the, the, the real Manson 

1441
01:07:14,800 --> 01:07:17,080
fanatics. 
That's a good point. 

1442
01:07:17,320 --> 01:07:20,920
You know, that's a, that's a, 
that's a real, that's a very, 

1443
01:07:20,960 --> 01:07:25,240
that's a very real thing, man. 
Like it's, you know, I, I 

1444
01:07:25,240 --> 01:07:28,160
didn't, haven't really reached 
out to like any of those people,

1445
01:07:28,800 --> 01:07:30,360
you know, those websites and 
stuff, 'cause like they're, 

1446
01:07:30,360 --> 01:07:34,600
they're very protective of 
their, their, you know, the way 

1447
01:07:34,600 --> 01:07:39,080
they see it and the way they, 
you know, and like, you know, I,

1448
01:07:39,120 --> 01:07:43,360
I do have Manson enter into the 
narrative not until like the 

1449
01:07:43,360 --> 01:07:46,280
third book though. 
So, you know, it's, it's not 

1450
01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:49,040
really about him, you know, it's
not, you know, I wasn't really 

1451
01:07:49,040 --> 01:07:53,720
so interested in, in the Manson 
family and the, you know, the 

1452
01:07:53,720 --> 01:07:55,640
murders themselves and, and 
things like that. 

1453
01:07:55,640 --> 01:07:57,640
You know, I, I, I, I was more 
interested in the kind of the 

1454
01:07:57,640 --> 01:08:01,240
peripheral. 
But but yeah, if anything it 

1455
01:08:01,240 --> 01:08:04,400
like, you know, if, if, if this,
you know, starts reaching those 

1456
01:08:04,400 --> 01:08:08,520
quarters, then I'm, you know, 
I'm sure I'll have to pick my 

1457
01:08:08,520 --> 01:08:10,960
battles with those people. 
But it whatever, you know. 

1458
01:08:11,120 --> 01:08:13,600
Yeah, like, like, and the reason
I bring that up is it's really 

1459
01:08:13,600 --> 01:08:15,720
funny is like we have an 
audience, you know, but like 

1460
01:08:15,720 --> 01:08:19,040
when you put something out on 
YouTube, the audience, it's like

1461
01:08:19,080 --> 01:08:21,240
anybody can stumble upon it. 
We did an episode on Prince. 

1462
01:08:21,279 --> 01:08:23,960
So like anybody who types in 
Prince episode can go read that.

1463
01:08:23,960 --> 01:08:26,520
And there are people that just 
go like, I don't like what you 

1464
01:08:26,520 --> 01:08:28,800
said about Prince right there. 
And it was like, maybe I made a 

1465
01:08:28,800 --> 01:08:31,000
joke about like black people or 
something, you know what I mean?

1466
01:08:31,000 --> 01:08:32,960
Like it was just something like 
in a four hour span, I was like,

1467
01:08:32,960 --> 01:08:35,800
oh, wait, I don't have to deal 
with this person, but I'm like, 

1468
01:08:35,800 --> 01:08:37,160
that person has access to what I
do. 

1469
01:08:37,160 --> 01:08:38,600
That's kind of interesting, you 
know what I mean? 

1470
01:08:38,600 --> 01:08:41,319
Like you kind of forget for a 
while, like. 

1471
01:08:41,520 --> 01:08:44,000
It's just, yeah, yeah. 
I mean, I, yeah, I, I, I was 

1472
01:08:44,279 --> 01:08:48,760
having a conversation with a 
friend of mine about that the 

1473
01:08:48,800 --> 01:08:50,680
other day, because he, he's a, 
he's a screenwriter. 

1474
01:08:50,680 --> 01:08:55,120
He's got a film. 
He did a a movie a couple years 

1475
01:08:55,120 --> 01:08:57,960
ago that was like became a 
really big hit and it's kind of 

1476
01:08:57,960 --> 01:08:59,319
got it like a cult following 
now. 

1477
01:08:59,880 --> 01:09:01,880
So, you know, we're kind of 
talking about that. 

1478
01:09:01,880 --> 01:09:03,080
He's like, yeah. 
He's like what you put it out in

1479
01:09:03,080 --> 01:09:05,920
the world. 
You know, people, certain people

1480
01:09:05,920 --> 01:09:08,439
will attach themselves to 
certain characters or they'll 

1481
01:09:08,439 --> 01:09:10,920
attach themselves to certain 
things about it and they'll 

1482
01:09:10,920 --> 01:09:12,960
they'll kind of it'll kind of 
take on a life of its own that 

1483
01:09:12,960 --> 01:09:14,960
you you would no longer have 
control over. 

1484
01:09:15,000 --> 01:09:19,560
You know, I haven't reached that
stage yet with this. 

1485
01:09:19,560 --> 01:09:21,680
I mean, this is just came out 
like a few weeks ago, obviously.

1486
01:09:21,680 --> 01:09:27,160
But, you know, I I don't know. 
I don't see, I don't know, I, I,

1487
01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:30,000
I think I was trying to do 
something more along the lines 

1488
01:09:30,000 --> 01:09:33,120
of a hero's journey with this as
opposed, as opposed to making it

1489
01:09:33,120 --> 01:09:36,120
more about specifically about 
the Manson thing. 

1490
01:09:36,160 --> 01:09:38,760
You know, I mean, it's like, I 
see, I see this character more 

1491
01:09:38,760 --> 01:09:43,960
as like a knight, you know, kind
of a, a chivalrous, you know, 

1492
01:09:43,960 --> 01:09:47,439
knight in shining armor type of,
of, you know, hero or like that,

1493
01:09:47,439 --> 01:09:50,160
you know, the, the lone 
detective of, of Chandler. 

1494
01:09:52,359 --> 01:09:57,840
You know, I see it more as like,
you know, like just kind of like

1495
01:09:57,840 --> 01:10:03,520
mythical storytelling in a way, 
as opposed to trying to exploit 

1496
01:10:03,960 --> 01:10:06,320
what, what the, you know, the, 
the world that it takes place, 

1497
01:10:06,400 --> 01:10:09,440
you know, not not exploiting the
murders or, you know, exploiting

1498
01:10:09,440 --> 01:10:12,800
the, you know, the family or 
anything like that. 

1499
01:10:12,800 --> 01:10:14,400
You know what I mean? 
It's like it, like it, it's, 

1500
01:10:14,520 --> 01:10:17,840
it's set in that world, but it's
not, it's not focused on that. 

1501
01:10:18,040 --> 01:10:19,360
No. 
No, you know what I mean. 

1502
01:10:19,680 --> 01:10:21,960
Most certainly, Yeah. 
Well, it's very, it's very good.

1503
01:10:21,960 --> 01:10:25,720
I, I, I, I, I have to say it's a
very, very good first issue. 

1504
01:10:26,720 --> 01:10:29,480
Happy to have have read it and I
will definitely be following up 

1505
01:10:29,480 --> 01:10:32,600
with the subsequent volume. 
So, Sasha, thanks for for 

1506
01:10:32,600 --> 01:10:35,000
joining. 
I I really appreciate it. 

1507
01:10:35,240 --> 01:10:37,760
Anything before we go anything, 
anything more you want to tell 

1508
01:10:37,760 --> 01:10:39,200
the audience about the hippie 
hunter? 

1509
01:10:39,200 --> 01:10:42,800
Anything we talked about. 
No, just you know, the Indiegogo

1510
01:10:42,800 --> 01:10:44,520
site's still up. 
We've still got the crowdfunding

1511
01:10:44,520 --> 01:10:46,560
going. 
I think another two weeks. 

1512
01:10:46,560 --> 01:10:48,640
Of course, by the time this 
episode comes out, I think it'll

1513
01:10:48,640 --> 01:10:53,440
be be over in like a few days. 
But it's still and then it's 

1514
01:10:53,560 --> 01:10:57,720
it's available on Amazon and you
can get it on paperback, you 

1515
01:10:57,720 --> 01:11:00,880
know, for for a nice Pulp 
Fiction price of, you know, 10 

1516
01:11:00,880 --> 01:11:04,280
bucks or so. 
So it's a good place to get it. 

1517
01:11:04,280 --> 01:11:08,880
And then, yeah, I, I've got a, 
you know, I've got an Etsy shop 

1518
01:11:08,880 --> 01:11:10,200
too. 
If if anybody wants to, you 

1519
01:11:10,400 --> 01:11:14,880
know, buy some paintings, you 
know, I've, I've got that. 

1520
01:11:16,040 --> 01:11:19,080
It's at cultural drop on Etsy, 
OK. 

1521
01:11:19,600 --> 01:11:23,160
And yeah, I think that's about 
it, man. 

1522
01:11:23,280 --> 01:11:27,040
I'm sweet, sweet. 
Looking forward to more episodes

1523
01:11:27,040 --> 01:11:29,040
of Rare Candy and. 
Yeah. 

1524
01:11:29,200 --> 01:11:31,320
I'll have to probably have to 
check out your your gravity's 

1525
01:11:31,320 --> 01:11:35,400
rainbow arc. 
Yeah, that's, that's a that's 

1526
01:11:35,400 --> 01:11:37,360
like a year of project. 
It's like like something I'm 

1527
01:11:37,360 --> 01:11:40,040
trying to like get done. 
If you're kind of see how far I 

1528
01:11:40,040 --> 01:11:43,400
can take the fiction stuff. 
And you I now you recommend. 

1529
01:11:43,400 --> 01:11:45,560
I think it was you that 
recommended to me a long time 

1530
01:11:45,560 --> 01:11:48,200
ago and I didn't forget. 
And I will write this down. 

1531
01:11:48,480 --> 01:11:52,200
The Ask the Dust novel. 
Was that you that recommended? 

1532
01:11:52,200 --> 01:11:53,360
That to me. 
Oh yeah, John Phant. 

1533
01:11:53,480 --> 01:11:55,560
Yeah, yeah, I, I have. 
I have a copy. 

1534
01:11:55,720 --> 01:11:57,840
I've been meaning to add that 
because it's so so slim and 

1535
01:11:57,840 --> 01:11:59,920
small, but I haven't. 
You you haven't read it yet. 

1536
01:12:00,520 --> 01:12:04,160
I have not, I have not I I, I 
remember when we were setting 

1537
01:12:04,160 --> 01:12:05,520
this up. 
I'm like, I think this is the 

1538
01:12:05,520 --> 01:12:06,880
guy that recommended Ask the 
Dust to me. 

1539
01:12:06,880 --> 01:12:08,280
I always remember book 
recommendation. 

1540
01:12:08,280 --> 01:12:09,760
I always remember who told me 
about a book. 

1541
01:12:09,760 --> 01:12:11,360
So you're gonna. 
You're gonna love it. 

1542
01:12:11,360 --> 01:12:12,880
Yeah, I won't. 
Guarantee you I will, yeah. 

1543
01:12:12,920 --> 01:12:16,080
Yeah, John Fan he was. 
He was a big, big influence on 

1544
01:12:16,080 --> 01:12:19,160
Bukowski. 
Oh yeah, nice, nice. 

1545
01:12:19,200 --> 01:12:22,040
And and when you when you read 
that, you'll, you'll, you'll see

1546
01:12:22,040 --> 01:12:23,720
it right away. 
Very. 

1547
01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:25,520
Cool. 
That's yeah, that's another 

1548
01:12:25,520 --> 01:12:28,360
another talk about another LA 
book that's like, you know, 

1549
01:12:29,800 --> 01:12:32,120
definitely captures Southern 
California. 

1550
01:12:32,800 --> 01:12:35,440
Definitely, definitely. 
Well, yeah, guys, so all the 

1551
01:12:35,440 --> 01:12:37,280
links that that Sasha was 
talking about going in the 

1552
01:12:37,280 --> 01:12:39,440
description of this episode. 
I highly recommend everybody 

1553
01:12:39,440 --> 01:12:41,520
check out the Hippie Hunter 
Volume 1 and then, you know, 

1554
01:12:41,760 --> 01:12:43,720
keep in touch. 
We will put this out to where 

1555
01:12:43,720 --> 01:12:46,160
you still have an opportunity to
donate to the indie. 

1556
01:12:46,160 --> 01:12:49,960
Go go and and get this, you 
know, get this stuff going 

1557
01:12:49,960 --> 01:12:51,280
because it is important. 
It is important. 

1558
01:12:51,280 --> 01:12:53,720
You guys have noticed the guests
that we've had on on this on our

1559
01:12:53,720 --> 01:12:55,960
free episode feed have been 
people that have tangible 

1560
01:12:55,960 --> 01:12:58,400
products to put out in this 
world because I'm tired of 

1561
01:12:58,400 --> 01:12:59,840
complaining about their not 
being there. 

1562
01:13:00,200 --> 01:13:04,040
So yeah, on that note, guys, 
everybody have a safe week to 

1563
01:13:04,040 --> 01:13:05,120
catch you guys next time.