Yeah, from the five to the six we be in the mix with that rare
candy paint job on the whip. I need food for the kids, money
for the rent. Fuck a lock down baby.
I can't do that shit now. I'll never vote because I'm
fucking broke and either way I know the police ain't gonna
leave me alone on a plane by the physical and rock me.
Crypto told me I should be in the.
Glock way. So I packed up my piece and I'm
sliding slide. Because we might get caught up
in a riot. Middle finger Trump, middle
finger Biden fucker, left fucker right as you riding see it.
Those rocket in. No politics baby.
We just talked. From the birds to the bricks.
We be in the mix with the rare candy paint job on the web.
We with. Okay, I'm pleased to have Sasha
Cesada on here. And he wrote a how do you say
that? Do you do you write these?
Do you draw these? I know nothing about comics.
I don't what would do with like, I guess he's the author of a of
the Hippie Hunter, which is like a graphic novel noir centered
around Paul Tate, the father of Sharon Tate.
Very, very, very fun read. I've been seeing your artwork on
X for a long time just coming up there.
So it's really nice to see it like kind of put into like a a
narrative and stuff. So that was that was really
cool. But I mean, I'll ask First off,
your appearance on the Bret Easton Ellis podcast.
Not only am I jealous, but it was actually really good.
And I'm a huge, huge fan of that show.
And so since you know, he he had a pretty rough last year, like
just personally and stuff. If you, if you've been following
Brett Ellis's life and stuff, it was he, he perked up a little
when you came on, which was nice.
Like he really just had like had that, that interest that he had
that and then the detachment. Sometimes he gets really
detached when he's in a, when he's in kind of a sad mood.
And I felt him perk up. So I was, that was really cool.
And you, you got a bunch of feedback on it, positive,
something negative. But I I think a lot of people
listened and liked it. Yeah, no, I've, I mean, I've
known Brett for like 20 years now.
Like, you know, we're we're we're, we're friends.
And actually, I haven't seen him in a few years.
I haven't been back to LA since like 2021, I think so.
So yeah, this is kind of a good way to reconnect with him, you
know, and I'd never been on the show before, so, you know, it
worked out. But but yeah, he, he, he's, he's
had a pretty rough man the last year or so, you know, But, you
know, he's, he's, he's, he's bred.
He's always like that. He's always kind of like very,
you know, I don't know, medicated.
Like his. Like his books.
I mean his. Books read that way a lot of
times. Too it's it's it's like
meaningfully, strikingly funny, also kind of a malaise to it,
you know, and it's it's like watching the world burn around
you and you have a few jokes about it A lot of times like
that's kind of his his it's like a shed a lot of his books like a
shedding of an exoskeleton, you know what I mean?
Like constantly and, and just kind of the, the, the, the voice
he he puts in there during that is always, is always great.
But you wrote, you wrote the hippie hunter and that's one way
to get Brett perked up. You talk about the Tate Labianca
murders. The guy can go on forever about
that stuff. And, and as can I, I mean, I
don't think a lot of people understand.
I mean, everybody knows what those are.
But but I'm a Californian. You're a Californian.
When the weather starts getting nice, I immediately think about
the Manson murders, which you shouldn't, but for some reason I
don't think about them in the winter, right.
You picture a hot, sunny Laurel Canyon and freaks all the time
and so, So what Was that a similar way to why you wanted to
start doing this? Was there a similar feeling to
that? You know, it's, it's funny, I, I
started that, I started this project back in 2018 and that's
when I was still living in, in California.
And I mean, yeah, I mean, I agree with you.
Like I grew up at the beach, so, you know, it's like always hot
and sunny there, you know what I mean?
So it's like, yeah, it gets a little hotter in the summertime,
but it's like always like 70° at least, you know what I mean?
It's it's, but I think the thing for me like the like the real
like kind of interest that I took in the in that kind of
story was, you know, you have a character who's, you know, a
military man, right? He's going undercover to find
his his daughter's killers, but he's going into like this hippie
subculture, you know, and I found that like a really
interesting dichotomy because it's like you, you've got this
like, you know, very like, you know, Cold War soldier, very
anti communist going into the belly of the beast of the hippie
subculture, you know, and, and like what that what you have to
kind of do, you know, you have to give up your, your, your
ethics and your, you know, kind of your ideologies and you have
to, you know, pretend that you're something you're not to
try and find this, you know, these killers or whatever.
And living in California at the time during the first Trump
administration, that that was a very like, it was like, it was a
feeling that I really felt like because, you know, you're kind
of like behind enemy lines, especially living on the coast
like I did. Yeah.
So I like, I really identified with the character in that, in
that way. And that's that's kind of like a
like a lot of like what this is about.
It's like kind of like that, you know, living in that ideology
that you don't agree with, but you you're surrounded by it and
you have to kind of like play a role.
You know, it's that's kind of how how it came to fruition, you
know? Interesting.
So, so, So what, what makes you so when you're you're going
through that? And I think a lot of people
listening to this can relate to that.
Just that kind of mask that you wear the like the almost putting
plexiglass, COVID plexiglass in front of your personality a
little bit because you're like, look, guys, if I tell you it
literally 1 percent, 1% of the iceberg of what I'm thinking
right now. It was our nuclear warfare at
this dinner or whatever that we're at.
But you know, that brings you to, you know, one of the darkest
times in, you know, at least California pop culture history
and and really just California history of the last hundreds.
So I think that's interesting going from there to there,
right? Yeah, I mean, you know, it's
that that's the other thing. I, you know, I'm like, I, I, I
kind of went down a rabbit hole when I was doing research for
this. And I, I, I, I got an account on
this website callednewspapers.com and you
know, it's just, it's a library. It's just like a full like
online library of like media from like it goes back to like
the 1800s, you know, and so, you know, I started going back to
like look at like old LA Times coverage of of Manson and Tate
Labianca and all that kind of stuff.
And that's something I wanted to like infuse into it, you know,
like taking the media from that era.
You know, it's, you know, it's interspice into the into the
book. But you know, I like to me that
almost gives you more of a feel for the for the era itself then
then like the way people are dressed or like the way, you
know, the way the city looks in that period.
Like, especially when you're reading something like material,
like I feel like, you know, you look at the like the ads and
like the newspaper headlines from that from that time and you
get you get a much more sense of like time and place.
So that was definitely something that I tried to, you know, that
I am working into it. I mean, the rest of the book is
I'm still working on the, you know, the next volume and the
next couple volumes, actually. But yeah.
How many do you think? How many do you think it's it's
going to be total? How many?
Like just? It'll be 4.
So the, the second one I'm, I've got the, I've got the first
draft down to the second volume and that's, I'm hoping to get
that published in October. You know, I'm doing an Indiegogo
campaign to kind of raise funds to help me, you know, get it,
get it finished, get across the finish line.
And then, you know, I think that I think the next two volumes
will kind of follow quarterly. You know, that's kind of the way
I'm mapping it out. Yeah.
So, but I think this is a good, you know, good introduction.
Absolutely. Where, where do you, where can
people go get it right now? So.
It's available on Amazon and then you can, if you wanted back
on Indiegogo, You'll, you'll also get, you know, a physical
copy and you can get a digital download.
And that campaign runs for like another two weeks.
I think so. Cool.
Either one of those, yeah. Yeah, very, very cool.
Yeah. I mean, I've been fascinated by,
you know, it's something I always knew about.
You know, Charles, you just know these, like, loose names,
Charles Manson, Roman Polanski, you know, J Sebring, just these.
And you're told like it's all connected.
And then there's people who are like, no, no, no, no, no.
It's connected, connected, connected.
There's these layers of of everybody has their own theory.
I think a lot of them are kind of correct.
But like there's just a couple things that like we just don't
have access to to actually corroborate them.
But I love hearing, I love hearing how these murders can
really just like reinforce a political ideology.
Whereas if you're on like the right wing side, it's like
that's a bunch of drugged out hippies doing disgusting stuff.
And look what it leads to. We told you look what it leads
to. Which to be honest, that there's
a lot. A lot of that is true in my
opinion. Like it's just a lot of.
That, that's kind of, I mean, that's kind of what I talk about
on Brett's podcast, because that, that was kind of like how,
how it was to grow up in Southern California.
Like, you know, Manson was the ultimate boogeyman and for Gen.
X, you know, my, my generation, like, you know, in high school
and stuff like that, that was always a dark cloud over
everything. It was always like, you know, it
was kind of a, a cautionary tale for, for our generation, you
know, and it was like, I, I feel like yes, like on the right,
like the, the murders were kind of used as a, as a way to kind
of keep, keep us in line, you know, like stay away from drugs,
you know, stay away from the bad elements, you know, because this
is what could happen, you know. Yeah, and and then you can you
put it with the I now I read Dave Mcgowan's weird scenes
inside the Canyon. Have you?
Read. Yeah, I've read that too.
Yeah, good. Which is definitely more from
you know, my biggest critique of it is the maximalism of what of
his connections where I'm like, come on, Dave, come on, Dave,
like I don't you did not exactly.
You got a little lazy with like you.
I like he'll tell you some really, really good information
to go and that's why we don't have communism.
You're just like, well, what like, you know, like it'll be
like. But to be fair, I think both
theories have a little bit of have both have a little bit of
credence to them. Whereas, yeah, it was a massive
drugged out hippie degenerate thing that was seen that was
happening from a bunch of people who ran away from their military
families. Now, again, we might talk about
the maximalist of maximalism of all of them having these
military connections. It is fascinating.
But a lot of times it's like you're running away from your
military debt. Sharon Tate being one of those
people. And, and you have, that's a
perfect place for, you know, in the heart of culture in the
West, in, in the West of the United States to do a drug
running operation. And you're not going to do that
with just a bunch of lowlife hippies.
You need some big heavy hitters in there moving drugs, which I
think could have been aided by some government stuff, you know
what I mean? I, I genuinely think it was a
massive, you know, what are you 5 hours away from Tijuana?
You know, and, and stuff like that, Like there's, there's it's
very easy. And then I have a scary
paranormal theory, which I don't want to, I don't want to get to
quite just this yet, but like the the, but you know, like,
what do you think about the whole McGowan thing with that?
Well, you know, the volume 2 is actually it's kind of set in
Moral Canyon and it's very much, very much, very much follows
that theory like that, that you're talking, talking about,
you know, military industrial complex, you know, Lookout
Mountain, the Air Force Base at the top of Laurel Canyon.
That was a film studio like that, you know, that features
into it. You know, I, I, I don't want to,
I don't want to give my theory right now because it's part of
the but but yes, it, it, it I definitely, I, I definitely
think that there was, there was some, there was definitely some
intelligence work going on. And there, there's definitely
some government involvement, you know, I'll leave it at that for,
for that. But but yeah, so I definitely
get into that in the next book, you know, but I, I definitely
agree with with that. But I'd like to hear your, your
supernatural theory because I, I haven't heard it.
I haven't heard any of those really.
So we're. Going to get you right back to
the episode, but I just wanted to let you guys know of a few
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All right, enough of that. Let's get you back into the
episode. I'm into paranormal stuff, I'm
into cursed, I'm into cursed land.
I'm into the cursed land thing. I'm even into the fact that
America could be built and, you know, look the way like I'm not
doing this like epic, like genocide, colonialism thing.
But what I mean is like when there's a lot of bloodshed, the
land can. I think the land carries that
bloodshed and we do have free will as humans, but like if
you're put in a weird environment where there's just
nothing but bloodshed and stuff like you could be a little more
prone to that. So now we what what I like about
what McGowan does, my favorite part of it is he goes into like
the history now. It's very disjointed and I wish
he was more linear in telling the story.
I like like the I just would have been a lot nicer but he.
He. He.
Talks about Houdini living there.
He talks about Dohini the oil guy and all these really weird
things that are happening about like the you had like like a one
in two or one in three chance of back in, you know, way before
the 60s of dying of like unnatural causes out there.
And this is before hippies, before, you know, before the 60s
drug era and stuff. Like you're from a pioneer days.
Right. And and then the tribes that
were there, you know, you got all a lot of bloodshed happening
in these hills. And I just wonder if the land is
just cursed. And what if there's stuff in
Laurel Canyon happening right now that we don't know about?
Like what if there's another another thing happening?
I don't know what's happening in Laurel Canyon.
Right now, you know, it's pretty.
I actually actually lived in Laurel Canyon for like a few
months. This is like, wow, God, this is
like 24. I like, I used to live in New
York. I lived in New York for a while
and when I came back to Lai didn't really have a place to
live. So it's kind of like bouncing
around Airbnb's and stuff. And I wound up getting an Airbnb
in Laurel Canyon, actually right down the street from where the
Eagles lived. Oh, the where the where the girl
where the young ladies were laying on the grass.
Outside, yeah, it was, it was Kirkwood Canyon.
It was right up the street from the, from the Laurel Canyon
Country Store. But yeah, it's a it's a very
weird place, man. It's, it's got a very heavy
vibe. Very, you know, I, I guess heavy
is the best way to put it. Like it's just, it's just a very
strange place. And I, I, I stayed there for
like a month, I think, and because I just kind of wanted to
experience it, you know, because I was, I was just like, you
know, little Canyon. It's like, so there's so many
things attached to it. You know, it's got such a
legendary, you know, history. And yeah, I definitely,
definitely felt some darkness up there, you know?
And so, yeah, I mean, who knows what's going on nowadays up
there. But but yeah, a lot of those
canyons, Benedict Canyon too, you know, where, where the
murders took place, you know, that's where, I don't know if
you ever watched that show The Jinx that was on HBOA few years
ago. It was about the the serial
killer. I'll try to write that down.
I can't remember his name. He was like a really wealthy guy
and he he was anyway, he was like murdering his neighbors and
stuff. But anyway, he lived in Benedict
Canyon. Like, there's a lot of like
really dark stuff going on in those canyons, you know?
And I think you're, you know, you might be on to something
about the cursed. I know you know, I I'm a very
big believer in free will and accountability too.
So I hate like saying a lot of these things and be like, well,
they just live there and that's why they did it.
No, it draws certain types you. Know what I mean?
Oh, it's like, it's like a magnet.
Yeah. Yeah, it's like when people go
to Alaska and they're like, wow, you know how many murderers are
hiding out in Alaska? It's like, yeah, they're drawn
to it because you can hide there, you know, and, and like,
and guess what? They're freaks out there.
And then Jodie Foster comes and finds you and it's over, guys.
No, but the, no, the we were in the, you know, I, I think the
other stuff too that McGowan talks about in that book is the
like the underground, that like weird underground place.
That's I think I'm in between Laurel Canyon and Benedict
Canyon or something. It's like that big underground,
like concrete, like bought where the Aryan Brotherhood would meet
up down there and stuff. And it was like the largest
private land. It was like one of the largest
private land, unowned land in Lai always thought that was
strange. Yeah, well, I mean, there's
always been talk of, and I, I actually kind of go to this in
in in my second book too, a little bit.
There's always been talk of tunnels underneath the Canyon.
Yeah, spoil your entire book, please.
I'm done. I'm kidding.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, no, no, but, but
there's always been talk of like these canyons under or sorry,
these tunnels that run through the hills going back to the
Prohibition 'cause, you know, there there was, you know,
gangsters bootlegging liquor in the hills.
And then they would use these as tunnels to get it to the, you
know, clubs and restaurants on the strip.
So, yeah, there's always, I mean, I, I, that's never really
been confirmed. I mean that, you know, there's,
there's always there, there's talk of tunnels underneath the
Playboy Mansion, you know, So, yeah, I mean, I think there's a
lot of stuff that we we don't know about too that are, you
know, we're not Privy. To apparently there's rumors
because like Manson was, was, was big in tight.
Charles Manson was big in tight with Dennis Wilson, who lived in
the area, I think. And like there was thoughts that
like Manson would use that as like, I mean, in his mind, there
was going to be a race war and they were and he was going to
orchestrate a big race war. He was going to win it no matter
what. He was going to win it.
And then that was going to be like a congregating area for the
people who saw the real, the real world or whatever, whatever
Manson was trying to do. So I was like, I don't
necessarily want to find out that that's not true.
I think that's fascinating. I'd love to.
I'd love to just leave that like where it is like I'm.
Like, yeah, a little a little ambiguity, you know, certainly
helps for fiction. You know I.
Love it exactly that's why I'm a fiction guy man like in the end
so the with the with the other thing too.
The First off, I, I fully will will not be swayed against the
Playboy tunnels because I think if any man was going to build a
tunnel somewhere like with sure male testosterone will it would
be in the Playboy mansion. Like you would get that done.
You'd get that done like, no way.
No, I agree. You'd get that done.
So the, there's a pretty cool, you know, Paul Tate doesn't seem
to like the hippies very much in your, in your, in your, in your
book. I, I, I think it's fair to say
he's not big into the hippie scene.
It's he he says, you know what? They're looking all every which
way from for who killed my my daughter.
The police don't really know what they're doing.
They're following all these bureaucratic laws in place.
I'm going to go. It's he kind of goes like it
kind of has the tone to me of death wish and hardcore like
those movies like kind of together.
And the hardcore effectively feels like Paul Tate trying to
find his thought. Because I mean, hardcore feels
like it's very much inspired by Sharon Tate because she does
Valley of the Dolls where where her character does pornography,
pornography. So it it always feels like those
are tied together anyways. And it kind of it kind of feels
that way. So what's your feeling like?
Did you, you're a little bit older than me, but do you you
hung out? Did you know, like hippies?
Like just California hippies at the time?
Like, yeah, I mean, my parents were hippies.
You know, for for all intents and purposes, I grew up, You
know, I was born in Orange County, San Clemente.
Kind of kind of in the, in the shadow of of Nixon, you know,
my, my father used to run a restaurant down in Saint
Clemente and Pat Nixon used to come in and, you know, she used
to hold me as a as a child. And, and so, but you know, they,
they were, you know, they were all about hanging out at the
beach and playing volleyball and smoking pot.
And, you know, that that was that was kind of the the milieu
that I grew up in, you know, and then, you know, we moved up to
Manhattan Beach when I was younger, you know, or sorry, a
little bit older. But, you know, their friends
were all hippies and, you know, some of them worked in
Hollywood, you know. So, yeah, I'm, I'm very familiar
with the boomer hippie aesthetic, you know, and, and,
and like Paul Tate, I, I kind of resented, you know, now.
Yeah, You know, it's weird. I I have a thing where I'm like
when I hear people who aren't actually around, those type of
people just criticize it from afar.
I'm always like guys, come on, like there's a lot of cool
stuff. Like I like, I love California.
I like the California melting pot aspect.
Like when I was a kid, like these weren't Laurel Canyon
hippies. Like this was in the 2000s and
stuff, but you'd have people wearing hippie stuff, but they
would be hanging out with guys like the wigger types.
And I loved that aspect where it just didn't matter.
It actually was post racial California.
It actually was what we strive to be for.
And so I've always heard when people go hippies is bullshit.
And the thing I hated about Mcgowans book more than anything
was he pretends that the music, it was like a garbage.
And I'm like, you know, yeah, I don't know, man.
Like like these. I think some of these guys were
a lot more talented than and you need them to be not talented for
this to work. So it's kind of it's kind of I
didn't like that. But also when I'm around hippies
for longer than like a day, I wanted, I wanted, Yeah, I want
to. Yeah, I want to redact.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get it.
Where are you from?
Norcal then or. Northern California, San Jose,
CA, OK. So yeah, you're, yeah, you're
right, You're right. Santa Cruz is right down the
street. Santa Cruz is of 30 minutes
away, Hippie Bill I And there's right wing hippies in Santa
Cruz. Like you'll go in the hills and
there will be a guy that looks like the teacher from King of
the Hill with like the long hair and stuff in the tie dye.
And he'll be making his own soap with a Gadsden flag behind him
and guns everywhere. And he'll be like, yeah, I'm a
hippie. And you're like.
Yeah, I, I think you get, you get a lot of that too, you know,
closer you get to Oregon as well.
You know, it's, it's, there's actually like a very strong,
like right wing hippie contingent in, in Nor Cal that,
you know, I, it's more inland. It's like the, the coastal is
where you get like the really liberal ones and the
insufferable, you know, burnouts from, from that era.
But then you, as you go inland, you get, you get the more
conservative and kind of what you're talking about, you know?
Yeah, it's so I, I've, but like when I'm around them and I've
been around them like I, you know, know, some people and like
you'll stay at a house for like an event or something.
And no one wants to just do unorthodox things.
Like you're just like, can we just do normal things?
Like can we just be normal and like smoke some pot together and
just chill? Like, can we, can we just do
that? But they, you know, it's just
all the like those, you know, talking to hippies sometimes
where they have that like vapid look in their face and you
understand why everything looks like and and you you understand
every time why these Co optings of their movements happen.
You're like, I could tell you something right now that could
blow your mind and you would believe it and make it your
whole personality. And that's what like hippies
back then. That's why they got infiltrated.
And we were talking about inherent vice where I thought
there was somebody, I think that had a massive misread about it.
It was on XI was like, I don't you're not you didn't understand
what was happening in that movie.
And I hate being the media literacy guy, but it is
important that this person was saying that, you know, Once Upon
a time in Hollywood, Quentin Tarantino's movie does a really
bad is really mean to the hippies, whereas inherent Vice,
it makes the hippie lifestyle look cool.
Really. Doc Sportello has a lot more
Paul take to him in that in that in that movie and novel than
than people would like to admit. It just looks really cool
because Paul Thomas Anderson can't make anything that looks
bad. So like, of course it's going to
look cool, you know? Yeah, I think, well, I, I think
what I, you know, I, I, I can't quite remember what the argument
was with that, with that tweet that you're referring to.
But I do remember thinking, you know, inherent Vice kind of
shows you the, the, the, the, the dark machinations of, of the
hippie movement or what was behind it.
And Tarantino is only interested in surface, you know, he's only
interested in the image, you know, So it's two different,
it's two different takes on, on that era, you know, So I, I, I
don't think one is right or wrong or one's better than the
other. You know, they're just, they're
approaching it from, from two different angles, you know, but,
you know, I, I think inherent vice certainly has much more,
you know, definitely in, in, in common with the hippie hunter.
And that it's, you know, you're kind of seeing like the, the,
the invisible hand at work with a lot of this, a lot of this
stuff with it, with the hippie culture.
Whereas, you know, Tarantino is again, he's only interested in
the Hollywood, you know, the surface, you know, the, the, the
image of it, you know, he's not so interested in that and, and
the kind of the, the machinations of things, you
know. Yeah, I think that's perfectly
said because like, you know, the the the Paul Thomas Anderson,
you know, he's, he's, you know, the, the whole idea of inherent
Vice is this guy is, it's the end of the 60s and we're talking
about a crazy. I I believe inherent Vice takes
place actually in 1970, like right after the.
Yeah, I think it's right. It's like right on the cusp.
And we're talking about it. We're talking about a decade of.
I mean, it starts off Bay of Pigs 1961, Kennedy
assassination, 1963. I mean all of these things, all
of. These.
Yeah, Yeah, everything. Yeah.
Everything, I mean, what I mean, you are if you think, I think
we're in like crazy like end Times Now, like the 60s with if
we had modern social media coverage of the 60s, people
would think the world was literally on fire.
So, so when you're looking at this hippie guy who spent all
this time kind of never collecting money from anybody,
does he's like, oh, free this, free that.
But then he sees that everybody else is like compromised kind of
or he's like actually just guys, random guys that I see on TV are
hired to do this and do that. And it's really just the end of
an era. And it's realizing like, oh,
this couldn't be for the rest of my life.
The, the we have no rules. We have no structure.
Somebody with structure will come in and ruin this.
Will impose it, yeah. Yeah, that's.
You know, that's that's very much pinch on too.
You know, that's like yes, but that's definitely a kind of what
you're saying is like, you know, this can't go on forever.
I think that that that's kind of like the the melancholy of a lot
of pinch on books, you know, is like, kind of like we'll, we'll,
you know, we had it really good for a while and then it it kind
of got away from us, you know, and and it got Co opted and
yeah, it's I love, you know, Pinchon, it's funny.
Pinchon, you know, he used to live in Manhattan Beach in the
60s and I used to live down the street from where his his old
apartment. It's still there.
And, you know, that's where he wrote, I think lot 49 and he
wrote, he wrote some of Gravity's rainbow there.
And, you know, I just I loved I used to walk my dog past it all
the time. Just be like, that's where
Pinchon lived. You know, it's like so cool.
It's so. Crazy how he just exists like
and nobody, there's no, nobody has like sightings of him really
people. And he's he's a guy I feel like
I would recognize like I'd like. He's a very strange looking guy.
Like a guy. Yeah, he's very, yeah.
He's total recluse, you know. Yeah, I just wonder, like, I I
don't. And The thing is, I don't.
It's classic. It's like his novels.
It's all his novels seem to be centered around a conspiracy
theorist, a guy who's seeing all these things happening.
But then he he goes on this long journey, loses everything around
him and everything and then still doesn't really get the
answer. That's technically, that's kind
of what Lot 49 is with a woman. And and you realize you're like,
I don't want to know about Thomas Finchon.
I want to be able to. I love the freedom that I Thomas
Finchon is what I want him to be, you know, exactly.
You know, that's why I get some. If there was a tell all
documentary, I'd be scared to watch.
I'm sure I would watch it, but I'd be kind of disappointed, I'm
sure. Yeah.
I mean, he's, he's kind of, you know, he's so enigmatic.
It's like we were saying earlier about, you know, what you kind
of, you kind of invent your own fiction about him, you know what
I mean, which is, which is what's what's cool about that?
Because they, you know, especially in this day and age
of, you know, knowing everything about everyone and they're
always 24/7, you know, on your screen, you know, a, a character
like that is, you know, I mean, doesn't exist anymore, you know?
No, it's very straight. It really bothers me.
And I know the irony of someone who puts a camera in front of
his face and says his every thought into it saying this
right now, but the the the we can't have rock stars for that
reason. People talk about me too.
People talk about all of these things.
There's also an element of I would love when you would just
to see when like, OK, let's take Don Henley.
Like Don Henley's a very famous guy.
You know, you'd see him good looking guy, Stevie Nicks, all
these things. But for the most part, there
would be a publicity thing when his new album would come out.
And then you'd be like, oh, Don Henley.
And you were able to imagine all these crazy things Don Henley
was doing. But nowadays the the Don, I
mean, there is no like rock nowadays.
But let's say there was, you know, a new rock star is just
going to have his phone like this and going like, what's up
guys? It's Tuesday.
Working on my album right now. And then you're just like, just
let me know when it's out. Just let me know when it's out.
It's the, it's the, I call it the end of mystique.
You know, it's like, and I, I feel like we, we've like, I
don't know if it's possible, but I, I feel like, I feel like
there's a trend now, like where people are kind of like getting
burnt out on being online all the time and like sharing over
sharing everything. And like, you know, I think
that's again, that's why a lot of our culture suffers is like
exactly what you're talking about.
They're like, there's no mystery there.
There's no mystique there. There's nothing that like
intrigues me or intrigues an audience to be like, Oh, I want
to pick that up or I want to listen to that, you know what I
mean? It's like, I want to know what's
going on with this, with this person, what they're trying to
say. But you know, when it's posted
on X everyday and you know it's easily accessible, it kind of
ruins. I mean, it certainly ruins
celebrity, you know. Ruins it, ruins it.
Ruins like processing of, of complex art, whereas like if you
you what immediately what someone will do is if they watch
you guys talked about it on Brady's now.
So you watch Mulholland Dr. and you go I don't know.
I don't know what happened. So you're going to go on and
you're going to type. We're trained this way to go
Mulholland Dr. explained. Yeah, somebody's thoughts about
Mulholland Dr. which they might get the crux of what the movie
is. I mean, it's it's once you watch
the movie a couple times, even once, like you can go, OK, I
know what this is. But you, you, you kind of like,
no, chew on it, sit with it for a little bit, watch it again,
watch it again. You knew there was something
intriguing about it, but you didn't quite know how to explain
it to somebody. But everybody has this maximal.
I need the answer right now, right now.
Or, and and that really shuts down your faculties, in my
opinion, and your processing ability.
And that's why I love fiction, because it takes me away from my
phone. It takes me away from.
If I can put it away, I can put it away.
I'm a. 100% with you man. And I.
And what are you reading right now?
What am Oh my gosh, I am reading right now Libra by Don Delillo,
another 6. Another six that right here
behind me. It is damn good and and so I
love that because I love Elroy's American Tabloid.
So like that just pairs like it's just a total different tone
of the same kind of story and just kind of self reflection of
the characters and the different style.
So I'm reading that and then I'm also, every night before I go to
bed, 10 pages of Gravity's Rainbow till I'm done.
Oh nice. How far?
How far are you into it? 80 pages, 80 pages.
I mean, it's like I have to sit there.
I have to sit, I sit there and I reread pages like I just go,
there is no rush ring to finish this book.
And we are going to do a we are going to do a four part episode.
I'm doing with Bernard T Joy. We're going to be doing that
throughout the year. Like, but I'm just like, I love,
I love pinching. I would never recommend him to
anybody. Yeah, because it's I can
understand why anyone would hate him.
Oh, absolutely. Yeah, yeah.
It's it's, it's not for, it's not for the normie tastes.
Usually, and it you know, you you gotta, I feel like I'm a
pension character a little. I think you have to be somewhat
of a pension character that he would put in there to, to truly
enjoy it. I think like I feel like I would
be a weird radio DJ guy that like Thomas Pynch, sure.
I would name like like Tom Flabbergast or something.
And I like DJ who, you know, actually has a military family
history that he you know, and and is taught to play records at
a certain speed. So where, you know, I just like,
I feel like I could be one of those guys And and it's the I
love being dropped into his weird little world, which can be
frightening at times, but also like this is so cool.
Similar to inherent vice. I mean inherent vice.
I think he really gets that. Oh, yeah, yeah.
But I, it's funny. I, you know, I, I tackled
Gravity's rainbow a few years ago, kind of like very similar
to like how you're doing. And I think Brett did the same
thing as like, you know, I just, I would kind of read like a
chapter every morning. Like when I'm like, you know,
most, you know, I've got, you know, I've got my coffee and
like, I'm most, I'm most cognizant, you know, like this
time of day. And it was such a pleasure, man,
It was so good. It was like, I just got to savor
it, you know? And it's like, like you're
saying, like I would go back and reread stuff, you know, no rush.
And I think that's the best way to read that book.
You know, it's like you really got to, you really just got to
like indulge in it, you know? And you know, I think I, I think
I got through it in like 3 months or something.
But yeah, it's, it's, it's daunting, I think to the, to the
normie, you know, who's like doesn't really know what they're
getting into. But like, if you, if you're like
you, you like, you love to read, you like, appreciate literature.
It's, it's like one of the best novels ever, man, you know?
And well, and I find to me and I look, I'm all again, I, I could
easily hit this roadblock upon all roadblocks.
And I plan to I, I've, this is my probably my 4th or 5th of his
book. So I kind of understand, you
know, the, I understand that if you can, you can read 10 pages
and go, I have no idea what just happened.
But then 10 pages later, you're like, oh, you know, like, like,
yeah, there's this again there. They, they do a good job.
Actually, his subreddit is actually pretty good because
there's actually people discussing chapters and not in
this. Here's what happened.
It's oh, actually right here. I was thinking this, this, and
it's actually very interesting. It's actually like good for some
reason, just not that Reddit. It's not that like Reddit tone
of. Like I don't know, I don't use
Reddit. I I had to look at it for an
episode because I read V&V is tough.
No, I I've read V2 and I couldn't tell you.
I couldn't tell you one thing I remember of it.
It is. It's AI think it's very good,
but it's it that I found that so far to be tougher than the
beginning of Gravity's Rainbow. No, Yeah, no, no V Yeah, VV is
very impenetrable, you know, It's definitely not the place to
start, you know. Because I was like, what
happened? I was like, I straight up like I
read the end of V and I was like, what?
Like there's a, it takes you into like a whole mythology, you
know, mythology thing at the end.
And you're, I'm like, OK, I just need to let me know.
Not I'll interpret it my own way, but like, what happened and
what happened? Yeah.
So it was like that. That part's tough.
But I, you know, and it was weird.
The first page of Crying of Lot 49, it's, I didn't think I spoke
the same language as him. I was like, I read it and it's,
it's very flowery. And it's just about a, a, a guy
having a, a statue drop on his head and he dies and he's the
executor of a will. But you're just like, is this
English? And then after a while it's
like, can I, can I shoot this intravenously?
Can I, can I, can I consume this?
Can I have this like Howard Hughes, like, pumped into my
blood all day? Like, oh, good.
Yeah, No, I, I think lot 49 is this most accessible.
I think that's, I think that might have been the second of
his that I that I read. And that's my favorite.
That's my favorite Pynchon book. But it's so good, you know,
because it's, it's, it's a very like, it's a pretty simple
story, you know what I mean? It's like, you know, it's, it's
a, it's like a detective story basically.
But the, the, the language isn't too, you know, I guess it's not
too inaccessible like some of his other books.
It's very short and it also kind of like kind of takes place in
Manhattan Beach, like in the 60s.
I mean, it's like adjacent, but so cool.
You know, I read a lot of that into it also.
I think that's probably why it's my favorite because it's like
you can tell like when, you know, Pynchon was working in
aerospace. I think he was working at God.
What was it like? Not not Raytheon, but like he.
Was at Boeing I. Think Boeing.
That's right. He was at Boeing, you know.
So he, you know, he's, you know, cool down Rosecrans to Hawthorne
and where the Boeing building is.
And like, I know where that is, you know, so it's like I I see
all that in that book, you know, I think that's probably why part
of why it's my favorite. But.
That's cool. Yeah.
I, I love authors. Like because I have Steinbeck up
here, because I love those and like, you know, say what you
well, people will be like, oh, that commie, I'm like, I dare
you to read his shit and think it's like just communist
bullshit. It's fucking great.
And like, I, I, I and like East of Eden is my favorite book of
all time. So because I just because you, I
can drive, I can tell you take you through the locations.
They don't really change either. Like it's weird like you go down
in like the Salinas, all that whole 1 area code and you're
like, this probably isn't that different from when he like
lived here. It's kind of it's kind of
strange. And then you'll see like gang
bangers though in like Steinbeck town.
You'll see like a gang banging Mexican guy walking into like
some 1937 E of Eden market. It's like it's.
Supposed for real. It's a Thomas Pinchon thing,
It's. I was going to say it's.
Like a contest? Yeah, sounds.
Like a Pintron book? Yeah.
It's so funny. I yeah, the lived in area.
Like I know people that live in Texas.
Larry Mcmurtry, right? Like Larry Mcmurtry will take
you through Texas, the real Texas, the the Texas that people
find boring. But he finds so much life in it.
Like I love like I love authors that do that.
Yeah, yeah, No, it's especially LA authors.
You know, I like, you know, Chandler does that, Brett does
that. You know, I love that.
I mean, Joan Didion, it's Elroy, you know, I mean, there's so
many great, you know, LA authors, but but yeah, and you
know, I read some of that too for, you know, kind of the vibe
for the hippie hunter. You know, I read a lot of
Didion, you know, read a lot of Chandler, you know, trying to
trying to infuse it with a little bit of darkness, a little
bit of a little bit of, I don't know.
Yeah, the seediness, the seedy noir of.
Noir, Yeah. Noir tone of of what you did.
Here it comes. But also kind of like the dread,
you know, like there's always like a dread that's kind of like
in the percolating in the in the in the corners of sunny Los
Angeles that I, you know, kind of want to try and capture so.
Yeah, that that's Brett did that so good with the shards.
I I read I was like, Oh my gosh, like I I haven't read all of his
work, but it's my favorite. Like I truly like was like this
is OK. I I think if it came now again I
I haven't even read American psycho that's coming up.
So I. Think you haven't?
You know, yeah, I know I'm missing some of the core stuff,
so. I I I do it for a treat.
Yeah, I and like, you know, because I love rules of
attraction, love less than 0 and I love the shards.
I love the whites I and I. And so I, I'm gonna, I, I'm
gonna get into all that stuff this year probably.
But the the the shards, I was like, man, the dread of this is
so good, especially of that age, that age when you like it's,
it's you know, what he does in that is he takes these kind of
like minor quibbles that you have with people you think are
game seven of the World Series when you're young and you
realize they don't matter at all.
At all. At all but.
Then something there is a killer happening which adds like actual
real life ramifications to the story like and that's what I
love. Like you don't I, I and you
know, he, he, he, his marketing of it I thought was masterful,
but I also think it takes away I, I don't think people can call
it as good as it is because it's like a podcast book, you know,
like, because he serialized it on a podcast.
Some people don't like, treat it like literature.
I, I feel like I'm like, no, this is a book.
It's, I have it right here. It's a, it's a huge book.
I like I I loved it personally. Yeah, no, I, I, I, I, you know,
I probably need to reread it. It's been a few years since I
read it. I I think, I think the thing I
love the most about it though, was that it's really about a
writer. You know what I mean?
It's about writing fiction. It's about how writers create
the reality that they, you know, in their head that they exist in
and they put on the page. You know, certainly it's very
Chandler esque too. It's it's, it's definitely got
the Raymond Chandler kind of noir elements, even more so than
than, you know, less than 0. I feel like just in terms of
like capturing the city and like the, you know, the era.
But yeah, I need to, I need to revisit it.
I, it's been a few years since I read it and I, I've, I, I liked
it. I was, it's not my favorite of
his, but you know, maybe that'll change if I reread it again.
But you know, it's, I think you're I think I think you might
be on to something too about you know what the way you kind of
serialized it on the podcast because that's how I ingested
it. Me too.
First time. And then when I got the book,
you know, and I I read it and I, I told him I'm like this, I'm
like, this is different. This is somehow different than
the podcast. Like, it's hard to describe.
And he's like, he's like, well, yeah, you know, they had to be
edited and all this kind of stuff.
And it's so, yeah, it's like two different experiences.
You're right, you're right. No, I, I, I did it twice.
I read it twice, but through the podcast, like I, I, I was like,
I, I know somebody on Reddit put like or whatever, like I put
serialized all the episodes that, that the chapters are on.
So perfect. Like that's I think it, I think
it might be on his Patreon how you do it.
And like, and I just did that and it's cool because like half
the time it's like Amanda Melius is coming up after this.
That's kind of fun. You know, like I got like, it's
actually kind of like, it's surreal, like maximalism of the
podcast. Right.
Because, yeah, because he used to do.
He still had guests on after that.
That's right. He would do it as like the
monologue and then he would have the guests come on.
Yeah. It's like a three hour, a three
hour episode or a chat, 2 chapters of the shards and then
yeah, yeah, Anakachian, you know.
Like, yeah, but it was kind of, I mean, that was kind of perfect
for the COVID era though, you know what I mean?
Because that was like everyone's stuck inside or whatever.
And. Yeah, and him reading it too,
like him reading it is really cool because it's such a
personal time. For him.
Yeah, and he's just, he's just such a good speaker.
So you're just like, oh man, this is, this is, this is good.
And I, I, I haven't actually read.
I bought a physical copy just 'cause I want to have one, but
I, I haven't read that. And I feel like that's going to
be the same. So I think that's why it's not
considered. I'm sure it's considered Canon
amongst B EE fans but I'm like I think it's it's a secret third
thing. Yeah, you could.
You could be onto something with that, you know.
Yeah, 'cause I. So you actually so you actually
haven't read the book yet? Not the actual no.
I haven't picked the book up and read it.
We covered it on here and stuff. But I I read it through his
unedited OK. So I'll be, I'll be interested
to see if you have the same kind of reaction that I did to it
then, because it's it's, it's, it's two different experiences.
Wow, and for and for some reason, like reading it didn't
have the same impact. But I think it's goes to what
what you're saying is like, you know, it's not his voice.
He's not reading it to you. It's like it, you know, it's
pretty, it's more produced, you know, the, the, the podcast
version and then you get to the book and the book is definitely,
I mean, there's definitely some scenes that were, you know, cut
out, there's some things truncated and it's, it's, it's
just, it's a different reading experience.
So you'll be obvious to hear what you think once you read it.
Yeah, no, absolutely. And and when you when you said
about less than 0, less than 0 to me is and I don't know if he
meant to do this. I just think when you're that
young, you just are what you read.
And I I think even when you're older you are too.
But like the Didi, I mean the Didion play it as it lays like
in less than 0 have the same exact tone to me.
Oh, absolutely. I mean, there's even like if you
read Slouching Towards Bethlehem, there's even like
passages that he straight like just cribbed, you know, I'm
bored. I'm bored.
Yeah. Have you read Slouching Towards
Bethlehem that? No, I've only read the White
Album and play it as it lays, but I love her, yeah.
OK, yeah, you should. You should check out Slouch or
yeah, Slouching towards Bethlehem.
It's a, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's an
essay. It's about, it's about San
Francisco in the 60s, about the Haight Ashbury.
And it's all about, you know, she's kind of embedded with
these hippies, you know, and but it's like lesson, you know,
reads like lesson 0, that very flat kind of tone.
And it's, you know, vignettes, you know, I think it's like
about 15 pages or something. But it's the the end is just one
of the most, I don't know, like devastating, devastating
paragraphs I think I've ever read in about about the 60s.
It's it's like, I don't know, I don't want to give it away, but
yeah, you should. You should definitely definitely
read that. Yeah, no, she, she's great.
And, and what I, the first thing I ever read from her was her
essay about like driving and traffic from the White Album.
And I was like, wait, a woman is like this, obsessed with like,
driving. And the intricacies of driving
like this is phenomenal. Like, you know, plate is it,
ladies is Yeah, it's all driving, driving, driving the
freeways of LA. Yeah, cuz like only men talk
about driving in that way. And it's like, and I was passed,
you know, the the weird, the weird fly over intersection by
the 395 and you're just like, yeah, like, no, I've never heard
a woman and talk about that. You know what I mean?
Like, unless you're there, unless you're physically doing
it at the moment. But like this is just somebody
who like and and again, LA is driving is half of your life in
LA because you're just sitting in traffic.
So, you know, like. It's the culture, yeah.
I don't think people realize how long you spend in your car.
That's why the best scenes of Once Upon a Time in Hollywood
are the driving scenes, you know, and, and just those side
shots of Brad Pitt in the car and stuff.
And you're just like, yeah, cuz that's LA is driving.
It's not a walking city. I mean, you can, you can, you
can walk through. To it, but it's nobody walks in
LA like the song says, man. Yeah, exactly.
It was funny. I meant to, I meant to bring
something up about the right wing hippies.
I have a an uncle who grew up, I don't know exactly where, but
they, him and his wife had like an apartment.
And they used to like see The Beach Boys performing as kind of
a party band, like together it would just be like The Beach
Boys. And then they became these
massive fans. These are like our hometown
legends, these guys. So they grew.
They grew up in Hawthorne. Then it must have been Yeah, I
know it was a. Smaller, that's where.
That's where my dad grew up. And oh, interesting.
He didn't go to the same high school as The Beach Boys, but
you know, they were. Yeah, they were around.
They were around. They were just, they were part
of the scene growing up back then in the, I guess that would
have been the early 60s, yeah. Yeah.
And then they saw that one time they talk about this and you
never know, Boomers like to mythologize and lie all the time
and I let them. So I have no idea if some of
these things are true or not. They said they saw Jim Morrison
just black out in some bar in like Santa Barbara once, which I
believe. I mean, that's not out of out of
the question. My dad has a Jim Morrison story
also. I think it's just part of the
boomer, you know? I think they heard it from
somebody and then they're like, that happened to me.
Yeah, you. Know maybe he was stoned and he
did, yeah, who knows? But yeah, they all, they all
kind of like you said, they love the mythologizing.
And I'm glad we, and you know what, I'm glad we can't Fact
Check him. Like I'm just like, that's fine.
Like you, you get that, that's you've earned that, that right.
But I it's like the boomers on the East Coast that say they saw
Springsteen in a bar. You're like, no, you didn't.
You did not go to the Springsteen bar show.
Those bars hold like 100 people. People you didn't.
Stone, Tony, you know, yeah. Yeah, but so they were.
They saw Jim Morrison, you know, beach.
Boys, I lost you again. OK, Am I back?
Yeah, you're back now. Yeah.
Jim Moore, you know, said Jim Morrison.
The Wilsons, all these people have all these stories and
they're just right wingers. They're just Republican like.
But they've always have been through the 60s that they didn't
have some radical phase. They're just been like
Republican. I'm like, that is the nuance.
There's a nuance of California that people just don't know.
I know people like this, that they're just like, they go to
Coachella. They go to all these things, but
they're like, yeah, I'm just like, I work in finance and I'm
a, you know. I'm a.
Yeah, I'll look in, but I'll wear like a feather cap or
something like I'll put on. The Indian headdress, you know.
Yeah, they don't care. They don't.
They don't care. Like they just, it's like, it's
so strange, you know, like there's always been that type of
like of, of person, you know, where they're like, they're
going to like a Vietnam protest rock show and then they're like,
let's bomb Vietnam. Like they're saying that at the
same time. Yeah, it's.
It's it's, it's kind of that I don't know, it's something very
California about that though, you know, it's like there's,
there's no real concrete. I don't know.
I don't know what you'd call it. Like not an ideology, but like
there's no real like anchor, no to to a lot of that, especially
in that era, you know? Yeah.
You just, you just and, and, and look, Nixon's presence was, was
huge for that time. You had a Southern Californian.
Oh yeah, absolutely. And president.
So, you know, I, I can see that. And then like, you know, my, my
uncle had a small business. He's not.
He's like taxes, but whoever's taxing me less, that's my
politics. Like, yeah, you know, he also
had the governor. He also had Governor Reagan too
in that period, you know. Exactly.
That's, you know, Reagan was a big, he's actually going to be,
he's going to be featured in one of, in one of the I think
probably like the third book, but you know, taking because he
was very anti hippie, you know, like he, he, he kind of went to
war with them, you know, with Berkeley and, you know, setting
the stage for the 80s, you know, and, and when those hippies grew
up and then he was their president, you know, it's kind
of interesting too, when you look at it, but.
Yeah, yeah. I, I mean, I, I find I just
because nowadays, like you see, you know, when you go on the
Internet and I see somebody who's like, I, it'll be of a
certain issue. It'll be like, well, I think X
about that. And then people just go, you're
communist left wing. This they, they put, they attach
all these things to you when you just, when you give one opinion.
And I'm just like, my uncle could tell you like 7 bands he
liked. And then they'll be like, oh,
you're the hippie libtard. And they're like, no, no, I
mean, literally you would call me the biggest fascist.
My uncle Don, you call him the biggest fascist of all time.
Like if you actually heard his thing, it's just, it's just
funny. Like there's this.
It's why when I hear critiques from people who didn't live in
California, I'm like, maybe you're cut and dry.
Maybe you guys are cut and dry in these other states.
I've only lived here, so I don't know, but that maybe.
But people out here, there's just so much like free flowing,
even non hippie people, like they just, you know, you'll see
a guy driving a Tesla, you know, or like a like a big lifted
truck, but it'll have like Democrat stuff on it.
And I'm like, what's like it's so it's there's a cognitive
dissonance. I don't maybe that's not the
right term, but there's contrast.
It's a very much a state of contrast.
I think and that and that again, that's another thing I kind of I
think I try to infuse in the hippie hunter as well as is is
taking that, you know, those dichotomies that shouldn't, you
know, shouldn't come together, but they still do somehow,
because it's all just kind of in the air out there.
You know, I guess it's, it's definitely a very California
thing, man. That's.
I'd be, I'd be remiss to not talk to you about your, your
artwork in here. So I don't know enough of the,
of the style of how to call things what it is, but I like, I
like the, the style, the smokiness of it.
Like when I was reading it, it looked very smoky.
It looked very hazy and stuff. And, and I, I don't know, I did
not grow up reading comics or any sort of panelled stuff like
that growing up. So, but it read, it read very
literary to me, which I liked. So it was, it was easy for me to
for me me to kind of process and stuff.
But like you're drawing like what would you know?
Have you always been just somebody who's drawn or was this
something you picked up later? Do you have inspirations for
these these comics? Yeah, I mean, I, I, you know, I,
I, I spent most of my career in animation.
So, you know, I always started, I started with animation when I
was very young. So I like I've, I've always been
an artistic, you know, and kind of, you know, you know, made
that my career for most of the most of my life until, you know,
COVID happened and then, you know, things kind of fell apart.
But, but yeah, I, you know, like visual storytelling has always
been my thing, you know, and, you know, I, I love graphic
novels. I love comics.
But you know, with this, I wanted to do something that
wasn't so, I don't know, so comic oriented.
Like, you know, when when someone says comics like I, you
know, I think of like superheroes, I think of fantasy,
I think of, I don't know, you know, just fantastical stuff.
And I was like, well, you know, maybe you'd try and do something
like you're saying, like a little more literary something a
little more, I don't know. I don't know how to quite
describe it. Like not not so you know.
Sensible. It's grounded, it's grounded,
it's grounded in reality. Yeah, grounded in reality and,
and grounded in history and maybe a little more, you know,
thought provoking. I I don't, you know, I don't
want to get you pretentious about it.
No. I know.
I know what you. Mean that that was kind of that
was kind of the, you know, the the thought going into it.
And there's, you know, there's some, there's a there's an
artist named Darwin Cook, who's he was, he's a comma guard.
He's dead. He he passed away a few years
ago. But he his style was very like
mid century, kind of, you know, minimalist, stark, you know,
style of artwork that that really influenced this.
And, you know, I really wanted to kind of lean into like the
mid century vibe of Los Angeles that I love so much and and kind
of infuse it into the story. So that was part of it too.
Part of it was just like, I just want to draw like that
architecture. I just want to draw those
streets. And you know, I want to, I want
to draw the tiki bar. I want to draw the Chateau
Marmont. You know, it's like just stuff
that I love visually that I just, you know, I wanted to put
on the page. You know, that's part of it,
too. Yeah.
There was a Roman Polanski cameo, right?
Yeah. Yeah.
I like, I really like that one little Yeah.
That was a good, that was good. I like how you did that.
Yeah, it was, you know, I know you did.
The Polanski episode was. That was like a month ago right?
Two parter, yeah, but. Yeah, and I, I, I couldn't
remember. Did you, did you address or did
you ever watch? What?
We did not talk about that. I have not seen it.
You have OK. I was just curious because I, I,
I don't know, like a few years ago I'd come across that and I,
I watched it and I was like, I mean, it's not, it's, I don't
want to say it's bad, but it's like a very strange movie.
That's all I've heard. All I've heard is bad things
about it. Yeah, I mean, it's, I mean,
it's, you know, it's, it was, it was, you know, three years after
after the murders. But it's it's funny.
I was thinking about it today. I was like, it's almost like
White Lotus in a way, because it's, you know, it's about like
this like American girl that ends up with this like Italian
resort. And it's like all these, you
know, lecherous men and like, you know, eccentrics and stuff.
And I was like, yeah, this is kind of like Polanski's, like
White Lotus, you know, in a weird way.
But, you know, I'm not recommending it all.
But I was just. Man, now I'm going to watch it.
Now it looks like shit. And like the the the actress, I
forget her name, but she's like, she's like nude the whole movie.
Like she's literally nude like the whole time.
It's it's, I don't know. I think my, I think my guest
Cody had seen it and was like, yeah, it's not, it's just not
that good. But like I but hey, there's not
like a reason to watch sounds. Like, well, yeah, I was just, I
was going to say if you like, if you want to be like the Polanski
completist, you know, you definitely, I think you
definitely got to keep that one in there.
His bat, his bat is so bad. I like and I he's probably in my
opinion, the most interesting filmmaker ever in my just in my
opinion. I think, I think just the stuff
that he, the, the stuff that happened is crazy.
Like, you know, and, and just the, I thought he got real.
I thought he stayed pretty damn good throughout the 80s and 90s.
Like, and I thought he evolved and I thought he made great,
great films with and nobody and nobody ever wanted to stop
working with them. Like it was just, it was great.
Like I, I, I love it. But like the bad stuff is like,
wow, this is like, dude, like your misses are so bad.
But that's, that's just who he was.
He he thought he was big. He was just big, big, big.
Like, yeah, you know, I but I, I, I find his his greatest works
in my opinion. Like they are among my top films
ever like. What?
What's your? What's your #1 Chinatown or?
You, you kind of have to speak objectively and say Chinatown
like cuz if I try to get weird like I love Chinatown, I can
watch it anytime. You can put it on all the time.
To me, The Tenant is the creepiest, weirdest movie.
I just, I find that to be so. I find it to be this like flu.
I feel like I have the flu when I watch it.
Like it's just so odd and I keep thinking about it all the time.
I love Bitter Moon a lot. That was a new revelation for
me. I love Death in the Maiden I
think is fantastic. And I just, I, I love all of
those Rose. I mean, it's tough to beat
Rosemary's Baby. Like I actually like that more
than The Exorcist in terms of classic horror.
Just to me. Personally, it's scarier to me.
It's like. Creepier.
Yeah, like the Exorcist, I don't get scared by that stuff a lot
like, yeah. Did you?
Did you watch? Did you watch his Macbeth?
I I not for the episode, but I have since and it's I I I
actually like it. Like I think I think it's pretty
good. I I was I was expecting to be
like, Oh God, this is boring. I actually liked it.
No, I I liked it too that that was actually his first film
after the murders and. Right after.
Yeah, his right. After and there's there's
there's a lot you can read into that, you know, but I think it's
probably. By Playboy.
Put on by Playboy. Well, I, Hugh Hefner I think,
produced it. Yeah, yeah, It was put out by
Playboy, which is very it's there's always so many just odd
things happening around the guy. And like, you know, he's in
every like weird, weird scene and he's very prominent figure
in Laurel Canyon. There's people like he never
talks about doing a bunch of drugs, but like you're always,
he's just constantly around people doing drugs and stuff
like yeah, it's just and and you know, he was had had his
proclivities. Absolutely.
From the five to the six we've been without making me pay your
job on the way. I need food for the kids, money
for the rent of a girl like I've been.
Anyways, you talked about COVID kind of stopping something in
your, in your, in your life The, you know, can you, can you get
into any of that? I'm always fascinated by
people's COVID story. Well, so I was, I was a creative
director and an, an animator for a, for a, an education website
that was kind of based at Stanford and working remotely.
And I've been with them for about like a decade, you know,
about 10 years. And, you know, COVID happened.
And then, you know, like Paul Tate, I was very undercover with
that group because, you know, there were, you know, Stanford,
I mean, there were, I know we're talking like, you know,
hardcore. They had their own
misinformation observatory that was erected at Stanford that
just now got defunded, which I am aware.
Yes, but the COVID kind of gosh, how do I put it?
I guess it kind of like removed my camouflage, you know, and,
and, and, and, and I think they, they never really, never really
came out and, and said it, but I, I think they kind of became
aware of my, my worldview. And it was not, it was not an
amicable parting, but but yeah, it was, it was unfortunate.
I mean, you know, it, it was just when I, I think it was
bound to happen sooner or later anyway, just because of the way
the the culture was percolating. But but yeah, COVID, COVID like
really just kind of drove a stake through that, you know,
that that was, you know, like I said, that was like a good ten
years that I was, I was, I was doing that and I had like full
creative control and. You know, was making good money
and it was just, you know, it was it was kind of a kind of
like blew up my life in a way, you know, which is, you know,
but that's the way it goes. I guess it's it just, you know,
the vaccine thing came into play and sure, you know, I wasn't, I
wasn't having it. And then, you know, they kind of
let me go like not long after that.
So I think that was kind of the final, final straw, you know,
But, you know, I, but it's funny though, 'cause like, you know, I
look at it now and I, you know, I look at all the stuff that
Doge is doing with like, USAID and all that.
And I'm like, you know what, these guys were probably like,
these guys were probably getting funded by USAID and they were
probably siphoning federal money from something for, you know,
'cause it was through Stanford. So I, you know, who knows?
But yeah. Yeah.
So, you know, the way I look at it was like, well, you know,
maybe it's a blessing in disguise.
You know, you. Figure you figure like anybody
who it doesn't matter what side of the coin you are on COVID, it
doesn't matter if you're wiping your groceries down still in
2025 it was an accelerationist thing like this thing
accelerated a lot of kind of brooding things like like where
if you had a friend group and it was like for a while you guys
could kind of if you were just milk toast on social media and
they were just blah blah blah, blah blah like talking all their
all their stuff. If you just kind of pretended to
not care about anything, yeah, it could be civil.
Now, when it comes down to like getting a shot, like I would
have people ask me in public and they say, are you going to take
the vaccine? I go no.
And they go, why I go, it's none of your fucking business is why
I'll be glad to explain to you, but I know you don't.
You're not going to listen to me.
So I'll say no, I'm not going to and I'm not participating in
your humiliation ritual. And and and if you consider that
the condition of our friendship, then we're not friends.
Yeah. So, and it sucks when you have a
career attached to it because when we're talking about money,
we're talking about things that are very much akin to you.
These are your things, but these are attached to their view of
you, which is really, really psychologically my It's
Polanski. It's a Polanski film.
It's like very mind bending hands grabbing out at you, you
know? Yeah, yeah.
No, I mean, I, you know, I, I lost, I lost a lot of like, like
really good friends from over the vaccine stuff.
You know, people like people I grew up with people who, you
know, I, you know, I had AI had a close friend who, you know,
his mom had passed away about a year before, you know, and I was
like, you know, in the hospital with him.
You know, the, the, you know, before she passed, she had
pancreatic cancer. And, you know, a year later,
the, the vaccine thing comes up and then that, you know, we had
a big falling out. And I haven't talked to him
since. You know, it's, it's, there's a
lot of that though. You know, it's, it's, I'm not
alone in that. But no, but you're right.
It, it, it really it just, it kind of, I feel like the first
Trump administration was kind of like the, the initial.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SIM simmering, you know, and then the COVID thing just boiled
over and that that was kind of like the ripping the Band-Aid
off moment where it's like, OK, this is this is, this is what's
going to separate, you know, a lot of people from their pasts
and from their, you know, what they're what they grew up with
and friendships and relationships and careers.
And it was definitely, you know, the fault, you know the fault
point, you know. Yeah, well, you, you have a bit
of a less than 0 moment where you realize you're like, oh,
this, these aren't my friends. This isn't where I want.
To. Be all right the I think it's
still recording, but you got me now.
Yeah, you're back now, OK. The, the, there's like a less
than 0. Like it's, it's just like when
you, when you take it back, you're like, these aren't my
friends. These aren't my, these aren't
who I'm going to be around. And there's that shocking
realization of the ripping the Band-Aid off feeling where
you're like, this is going to hurt.
This is going to hurt. And it does hurt because deep
down as AI, we were the more principled side.
And I feel fine saying that. And it would have taken a lot
for me to disown my friend. In fact, I dealt with their Lib
tard bullshit the entire time. And I didn't disown them right
like we were. We allowed them to do it.
We allowed them to do it, to say all these things to us.
And then the minute you don't play the Simon Says game with
them, yeah, it's over. I that's the part I still can't
get over. Yeah, I mean, you know, Brett,
Brett writes about that in white.
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
You know, I'm, I mean, I'm one of the people in the, in the
final chapter that he, you know, we have dinner.
He writes about, he writes about one of our dinners that we had.
We're, you know, we're talking about this because he, he
experienced this too. You know, it's like that.
I think he questions, sorry, he posits the question in that
chapter of, you know, where, if, if they, if they don't agree or
if they can't accept my, my, you know, my opinion or my world
view on this, you know, where they are friends to begin with.
You know, it's like, I forget how he phrased it, but it, it is
very true of that era. It was like, you know, have we
have we really been friends this whole time?
Or is this, has this just been a, you know, a facade?
Because I kind of went along with the, the, you know, the
herd, I guess, you know what I mean?
It's I don't know. Yeah.
It's like he he phrases it better than I'm, I'm mumbling
about. But, you know, he, he, he covers
that in that book really well, I think, you know.
I used to be able to argue with my friends politically all the
time. Like it what?
No matter what I believed in, like we, you would have a thing.
And yeah, it could. I'm not saying it would never
get heated, but it would get heated.
And guess what? Tomorrow we'd hang out and make
fun of, make fun of that argument that we had.
Yeah, You know what I mean? Like like.
Like that, that unfortunately those, I don't know, I mean, I,
I, I think, I think the tribalism of it has, has finally
hardened at this point. It's like we all know which side
we're on now. Whereas back then it was still
kind of like, well, maybe we can still kind of play in the same
playground and you know, kind of pretends like we can get along.
But, you know, I, I think those, those days are, are, are not
coming back. Well, and that brings me and
everybody we have people on that have their own publication stuff
that they're trying to do independent of the current
construct of media, you know, like publishing houses are
they're they published certain authors, certain looks, certain
nationalities, certain creeds, certain sexualities, but they're
not really thriving. You know what I'm saying?
Like they're not, you're not seeing, you're not seeing the
novels fly off the shelf. So I do think it opens an Ave.,
even though it's a little bit harder, but I think it's a more
fulfilling to publish your own stuff to do all of these things.
So I mean, do you anticipate getting, I mean, what you wrote
a book that'll scare people away to begin with, because it's, you
know, like people will read it and go that's mean to the
hippies, you know what I mean, or that this guy's right wing or
something like that. So that might insulate them away
for but like, you know, do you anticipate coming in, you know,
if this gets as far as you want it to go?
Do you anticipate having to confront these types of people
again that you lost during COVID?
Because just that's putting art out into the world.
A lot of art people are completely gone.
Yeah, no, I don't, I don't know. I, I think if anything, I'd, I
would have to confront, you know, the, the, the real Manson
fanatics. That's a good point.
You know, that's a, that's a, that's a real, that's a very,
that's a very real thing, man. Like it's, you know, I, I
didn't, haven't really reached out to like any of those people,
you know, those websites and stuff, 'cause like they're,
they're very protective of their, their, you know, the way
they see it and the way they, you know, and like, you know, I,
I do have Manson enter into the narrative not until like the
third book though. So, you know, it's, it's not
really about him, you know, it's not, you know, I wasn't really
so interested in, in the Manson family and the, you know, the
murders themselves and, and things like that.
You know, I, I, I, I was more interested in the kind of the
peripheral. But but yeah, if anything it
like, you know, if, if, if this, you know, starts reaching those
quarters, then I'm, you know, I'm sure I'll have to pick my
battles with those people. But it whatever, you know.
Yeah, like, like, and the reason I bring that up is it's really
funny is like we have an audience, you know, but like
when you put something out on YouTube, the audience, it's like
anybody can stumble upon it. We did an episode on Prince.
So like anybody who types in Prince episode can go read that.
And there are people that just go like, I don't like what you
said about Prince right there. And it was like, maybe I made a
joke about like black people or something, you know what I mean?
Like it was just something like in a four hour span, I was like,
oh, wait, I don't have to deal with this person, but I'm like,
that person has access to what I do.
That's kind of interesting, you know what I mean?
Like you kind of forget for a while, like.
It's just, yeah, yeah. I mean, I, yeah, I, I, I was
having a conversation with a friend of mine about that the
other day, because he, he's a, he's a screenwriter.
He's got a film. He did a a movie a couple years
ago that was like became a really big hit and it's kind of
got it like a cult following now.
So, you know, we're kind of talking about that.
He's like, yeah. He's like what you put it out in
the world. You know, people, certain people
will attach themselves to certain characters or they'll
attach themselves to certain things about it and they'll
they'll kind of it'll kind of take on a life of its own that
you you would no longer have control over.
You know, I haven't reached that stage yet with this.
I mean, this is just came out like a few weeks ago, obviously.
But, you know, I I don't know. I don't see, I don't know, I, I,
I think I was trying to do something more along the lines
of a hero's journey with this as opposed, as opposed to making it
more about specifically about the Manson thing.
You know, I mean, it's like, I see, I see this character more
as like a knight, you know, kind of a, a chivalrous, you know,
knight in shining armor type of, of, you know, hero or like that,
you know, the, the lone detective of, of Chandler.
You know, I see it more as like, you know, like just kind of like
mythical storytelling in a way, as opposed to trying to exploit
what, what the, you know, the, the world that it takes place,
you know, not not exploiting the murders or, you know, exploiting
the, you know, the family or anything like that.
You know what I mean? It's like it, like it, it's,
it's set in that world, but it's not, it's not focused on that.
No. No, you know what I mean.
Most certainly, Yeah. Well, it's very, it's very good.
I, I, I, I, I have to say it's a very, very good first issue.
Happy to have have read it and I will definitely be following up
with the subsequent volume. So, Sasha, thanks for for
joining. I I really appreciate it.
Anything before we go anything, anything more you want to tell
the audience about the hippie hunter?
Anything we talked about. No, just you know, the Indiegogo
site's still up. We've still got the crowdfunding
going. I think another two weeks.
Of course, by the time this episode comes out, I think it'll
be be over in like a few days. But it's still and then it's
it's available on Amazon and you can get it on paperback, you
know, for for a nice Pulp Fiction price of, you know, 10
bucks or so. So it's a good place to get it.
And then, yeah, I, I've got a, you know, I've got an Etsy shop
too. If if anybody wants to, you
know, buy some paintings, you know, I've, I've got that.
It's at cultural drop on Etsy, OK.
And yeah, I think that's about it, man.
I'm sweet, sweet. Looking forward to more episodes
of Rare Candy and. Yeah.
I'll have to probably have to check out your your gravity's
rainbow arc. Yeah, that's, that's a that's
like a year of project. It's like like something I'm
trying to like get done. If you're kind of see how far I
can take the fiction stuff. And you I now you recommend.
I think it was you that recommended to me a long time
ago and I didn't forget. And I will write this down.
The Ask the Dust novel. Was that you that recommended?
That to me. Oh yeah, John Phant.
Yeah, yeah, I, I have. I have a copy.
I've been meaning to add that because it's so so slim and
small, but I haven't. You you haven't read it yet.
I have not, I have not I I, I remember when we were setting
this up. I'm like, I think this is the
guy that recommended Ask the Dust to me.
I always remember book recommendation.
I always remember who told me about a book.
So you're gonna. You're gonna love it.
Yeah, I won't. Guarantee you I will, yeah.
Yeah, John Fan he was. He was a big, big influence on
Bukowski. Oh yeah, nice, nice.
And and when you when you read that, you'll, you'll, you'll see
it right away. Very.
Cool. That's yeah, that's another
another talk about another LA book that's like, you know,
definitely captures Southern California.
Definitely, definitely. Well, yeah, guys, so all the
links that that Sasha was talking about going in the
description of this episode. I highly recommend everybody
check out the Hippie Hunter Volume 1 and then, you know,
keep in touch. We will put this out to where
you still have an opportunity to donate to the indie.
Go go and and get this, you know, get this stuff going
because it is important. It is important.
You guys have noticed the guests that we've had on on this on our
free episode feed have been people that have tangible
products to put out in this world because I'm tired of
complaining about their not being there.
So yeah, on that note, guys, everybody have a safe week to
catch you guys next time.