So I was, I was, I was rushing to get home because we have it
with a fancy guest today as a fancy.
Guess I I put them out to wear a collared shirt today.
Neither of us. Did it was kind of a, you know,
a thing like that. We trying to try to spice it up
a little bit for the, for the verified checkmark, guess that
we have on that said, he's going to work and he said, yeah,
exactly. And I was working road
construction. So it's like when I when I make
a time for a podcast I'm like let me just like throw it.
Let me just try to make. Let me just try to make like
this time, sound safe, you know what I mean?
And then like it's always cutting to like I'm always like,
doing like Keanu, Reeves and speed, you know what I mean?
Like, like I just like, I'm not stopping everyone.
Get out of my way. Yeah, I only get home and here
we are. I'll never go home because I'm
fucking broke. Well, either way, I know the
police Ain't Gon leave me alone playing by the physically.
Rockne crypto told me, I should bring a Glock with me.
So I packed up my piece and I'm sliding slide because we might
get caught up in a riot, middle finger drunk little finger,
biting. Fuck I left fucking right.
As you ride to see those rocket can do politics, baby, we just
talk from the birds to the breaks.
We be in a mix with a rare candy, paint job on a whip
through it. Our guest is Max Blumenthal.
How are you doing, man? Good.
I didn't know this was going to be there's going to be a video
component because I always listen to you guys just on.
Yeah, just on like whatever audio platform.
So forgive me for the for not being in my home studio.
Oh, come on. No worries.
We and you. Yeah, we did the whole Rumble
thing because we got I think we're talking about Ivermectin
and got banned from you. Right?
So it's we are going to get. We didn't get banned but I took
so like they kind of said like okay instead of this like you're
like you can't say this this this this I'm like well okay,
that's like the mission statement for our.
So again you get to more opportunities and then I and
then so like I've kind of turned that into just like a sports
channel YouTube channel and then moved all this stuff into Rumble
wish they don't they don't care. They haven't said anything, they
just said no child pornography and I was like, all right cool
like you know and then then all of a sudden I get allert from an
episode seven months ago because I didn't like take them off of
YouTube, the old ones, and they're just like, yeah, this
one's got to go to and they like took that one off because it had
Ivermectin, you mentioned, Ivermectin knows.
Well, the title of the episode is called Pfizer, Justice
Warriors, which I shouldn't have called it that.
And then drag, I mean it pretty easy on them but the other one
the other episode was called dr. Sanjay Gupta.
So I was like, you know, that was that I'd be, I don't know.
I guess they somehow, I think somebody titled honest, person,
likes those episodes. Don't have a lot of Use.
I don't there's no way they found those.
As long as you don't talk about Minor attracted people or maps
map. YouTube's.
Okay with that but not him. Not Rumble.
Yeah. Grumble you guys because I have
like, you know, nephews not like a little nephews and my family
and shit and not because of them that said but you have you that
man's a dark scene and that YouTube child section, you know
what I mean? There's some weird like they
have these like AI Bots that create these videos.
Now Oh, it's fucking weird dude. And it's yeah, it's like don't
like, don't go down that Rebel because it's just very
depressing. Yeah, I have I have a kid.
So yeah, I've seen that stuff like the algorithm takes you to
some disturbing. It's called Coco.
Melon. Coco melon.
Yeah, it's called Coco. Melanie was like, oh, they're
like these cartoons. That feel a i generated.
Yeah. Songs are really inane and
idiotic but after you listen to an Or of a like really messes
your mind up. Fuck.
Yeah. Yeah, that's insane.
Well, the ones I was seeing were like, you know, watch Spider-Man
and the girl from Frozen do like, but stuff or what it was
like, well fuck, dude. I'm like, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, and my first thought
was like, why are you coming? He's just another one of the,
actual a Birds, who is so distinguished and just so loaded
with credentials, who's been just abused publicly abused for
going against the grain and 80 interrupting the imperatives of
Empire. Like, I met him in the the UN
Human Rights Council. I was invited along with my
wife, on your part and pill to speak about Venezuela.
We had been there to talk about the effect of sanctions and the
For more deceptions and it was a breakout session.
So a lot of the kind of like non-aligned nations delegations.
Came like a lot of the Nations that have been abused by the
u.s. showed up the palate, the Palestinian delegation, Western
Sahara, I mean, it was impressive and of course, the
Venezuelan delegation, the Cubans, Etc and desire.
He's just, he showed up and just ripped to shreds to all
propaganda on sanctions, actually putting pressure on the
regime to reform and you know, he had actually been the first
un official to do to be a repertoire on sanctions and
report on the insane damage that it was doing to the civilian
population in Venezuela and that kind of made him an enemy and
then he was going to another session on Palestine just
running through the halls and just going from one section to
the next as this just like leading expert on the law and
international law. And how people were how, you
know, everyone's talking about. Oh Russia's invasion of Ukraine
is illegal and maybe, but International laws, never
applied to defend all of the people from the states, or the
non States, like Palestine, Western Sahara.
That attended our talk sodas ice was their Defender.
And so, I got back to DC. I came out with a book called
the management of Imagery, which was mostly about the dirty war
in Syria. But, you know, it's a whole
history of the u.s. using jihadists.
You know, extreme like extremist islamists as proxies to
undermine its geopolitical foes, you know, from Afghanistan
starting in 1979 to Syria. The whole Syrian dirty war
project where the US was literally arming Al-Qaeda.
The CIA was arming Al-Qaeda openly.
And the book really upset? Some powerful people in
Washington, the Syrian American Lobby, who are like the Syrian
version of the, you know, the Cuban Americans in Miami who are
just hell bent on regime. Change, you want to bomb the
shit out of their own country? They were really upset with
this. The anarchists, you know, they
love regime change. Their like I call them the
anarcho neo-cons. Yeah.
They they just own it. They they they say that they
hate the state but they really love this state department.
They're like the left wing of the state department and so they
were really into canceling. Me along with every other like
all the blue check foreign policy acts, so they all got
together and did this giant campaign against the main
bookstore in DC, which is called politics and prose politics
politics, and prose is literally right next door to Comet Ping
Pong. Oh my favorite pizza place.
It's like the elite liberal bookstore, like, viele, the
liberal bookstore where, like, Samantha power was.
Going to speak a few days. After me, I'm in Condoleezza
Rice, drops books, they're like music every Elite political
figure in Washington. They will Premiere their books.
Their and some, you know they've hosted me before on previous
books, including a book about, you know, Israel's assault on
Gaza, which I covered in 2014. But this time they were
bombarded with phone calls and emails and threats.
And so I got on the phone with their owner and he was
obviously, Lee, you know liberal brain character who is easily
manipulated into believing that I was some kind of Holocaust
denier who wanted to eat, Syrian babies alive and he brought up
this one thing that particularly Disturbed him which was that I
had done a talk with Alfred desirous and he said he's a
Neo-Nazi. I was like, what the fuck?
What is this? Like, do you know who Alfred
desires is? Yeah and I remember you know, he
mentioned it in our talk like in the mid 70s, I think desire us
had done kind of groundbreaking paper that attracted a lot of
interest in West Germany. Things were actually more open
at that time before the kind of transatlantic relationship
developed and people were going through this process of
Examining WWII. How are they going to Grapple
with the ghosts of the past and his paper was on us torture and
war crimes committed against captive German soldiers, which
was something that was forbidden to talk about.
And apparently the Vera mock, had maintained a human rights
Division. If you can believe it, where
they were, they were tracking human rights violations against
their own soldiers. So he was using their archives
to do this. And of course, since then he's
advocated on behalf of the most oppressed people in the world.
Almost all of them brown and black he was pigeon-holed as an
all because he did that because he advocated for the Venezuelan
people or the Palestinian people, they brought out this
paper from his past and painted him as an oxy, and then it was
used to suspend, my talk. My talk was suspended.
Somebody smashed the windows of this bookstore.
The day after my talk was suspended and we had to hold it
in another location because of this, this whole campaign and
it. So I, you know, does ice was
part of that when we talked in our interview, me and desirous
about all of the international relations Scholars, like John
mearsheimer or Stephen Cohen, who was the leading expert on
Russia in the US and how they were just pillory, just
absolutely destroyed for not taking the You know war with
Russia. Putin is a psychopath.
We Must Destroy Russia and do expand.
NATO, put wet a dual-use missile systems on their border.
It's the only way to deal with this state for going against
that they were pilloried. But the most interesting thing
is that, if you look at these Scholars, all of them were
warning that this war would take place, unless NATO, pulled to
every single one of them, your shimer, said that we put Ukraine
on a primrose path to war and he was 100%, right.
He said that in 2015, When was this all happening around?
What's the timeframe for? Well, of course, like, okay.
I mean according to like, because for me, I haven't been
plugged into that kind of stuff, but like I even I knew there was
some tension there and like, but like, you know, all the liberal
Outlets will be like overnight Putin.
Lost his mind, you know, you will not believe it.
Breaking news will SportsCenter sound like you know, it's
insane. Like so like yeah, exactly.
How long has this been brewing for like it's been that long
like yeah, it's crazy. Well, I mean it's been brewing
since the end of the Cold War because George HW.
Bush's Secretary of State, Jim Baker, cut a deal with the Kyle
Gorbachev who believed that the u.s. could be an honest broker
and help him. Well, first, he believed they
could help him reform into a social democracy.
And then, and he believed also that this gentleman's deal would
mean that NATO would not expand Beyond Germany, which meant that
country, East of Germany would not be turned into hostile basis
for us aggression with Weapons, Systems pointed out Russia,
which would be significantly weakened after it, lost its
strategic depth. Because the Soviet Union was he
was giving up the whole Soviet Union while the satellite States
and Gorbachev thought. Oh, it's untenable, we just lost
Afghanistan were an oil crisis like oil prices are down.
Our population is in lines, long, bread lines, there
restive, you know, they see what's going on and the other
side of the The wall. And they want to be treated like
You know, they want that they want supermarkets, so he did
this, he never got it in writing and it's like, the, the Sioux
tribes with the Black Hills treaty or so many other Native
American Indian tribes often never got their agreement in
writing and even when they did the Black Hill Street, it was
just completely violated. I guess Gorbachev, didn't know
that history, he was just like the histories ultimate cook.
He's one of the most hated men in Russia today and then the US,
Looted Russia in the 90s it put Russia under neoliberal
management just looted everything.
Everybody's pension something like three percent of the entire
population died three to five million deaths.
The life span of the average lifespan went down by like over
five years. People just drank themselves to
death died in the gutter, and they do expanded the US was
like, well, you didn't put it in writing buddy.
So I heard the craziest and set that like the The largest
decrease in pop in life expectancy besides war and
famine and stuff was in Russia during that time in him like
human history basically. Which is insane, right?
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
That's crazy. Well, and there's a reason we
don't know what I mean. Go back and look at us media at
that time. It's like Yeltsin was the guy
presiding over. It Yeltsin was basically a CIA
asset, a complete like a bad alcoholic.
He wasn't like a functional alcoholic.
Who could really like, Yeah, he just, he could not manage his
shit. Like a lot of people, a lot of
leaders, like they can use alcohol to actually break bread
with enemies. And, you know, have late-night
sessions with intellectuals and artists and like it riches them
Yeltsin was easily manipulated by the us because he was just
his brain was like, just like a fermented Potato by the time,
the u.s. stolen election. You do?
Yeah, and he was just like, you know, chechnya was happening.
The CIA was sending jihadist to the ratline and to chechnya
Russia was just being bled. Every Which Way the Russian army
was like a shadow of its former self.
It was a disaster and then NATO was just expanding as much as it
could. Putting, as I said, weapon
systems and troops closer and closer to Russia.
And if you look at the US, media, at the time, they were
celebrating this miracle taking place in Russia.
The free market Miracle, while Russians were just dying, this
is what this is like one of the biggest Crimes of the 20th
century. It's as I would think, I think
it's as big a crime as Vietnam considering how many people just
died excess deaths? I think lockdowns Our across the
world particularly in the global South are on that level as well.
But we don't, we just don't think of it as a crime because
not only because it's Justified as a public health measure, but
because we don't understand excess deaths the concept of
people just dying when their economies completely shut off.
But that's what's happened, that's what happened there.
They had a heroin crisis all the heroin from Afghanistan came in
and that led to an AIDS crisis. They'd never, I mean, just
everything happening at once. So that all leads to Putin.
Yeah Putin comes in and the West is doing all the specifically,
the CIA is doing all these color Revolutions in.
Georgia and Azerbaijan it, sorry, Georgia and they did the
they all have like different colors.
You know, it's Shepherd not say was the was the president of
Georgia and he was friendly with the US Administration but he
wasn't. He was to nationalistic wanted
to hold. The too much.
So they removed him with this clown Mikhail Saakashvili who
was also a CIA asset was completely managed by the u.s.
like he always had this guy. This us intelligence officer
named Bruce Jackson with whispering in his ear.
He was just telling him what to say the guy was like just a
literal puppet almost and you have Poland's coming into the
NATO, Fray becoming basically a US military base as its as it
is, you know, is also basically looted, the Czech Republic.
I mean people had they lost everything.
They're all of the Baltic states become like basically basis for
NATO operations and Russia is finds itself surrounded.
By the time, Putin comes in Ukraine Also was, you know,
coming under de facto NATO management to some degree and
they had the orange Revolution there.
And this oligarch named Boris. Berezovsky this Russian oligarch
funded, the whole thing, and berezovsky it actually blessed
Putin when he came in, he was like the kingmaker, this crooked
oligarch, who ultimately, you know was so corrupt.
He fled to Israel where a lot of Russian oligarchs live now and
they all thought, you know, in the Wall Street Journal was like
Putin's and the great guys going to be just like Everything's
going to be great. We're just going to keep this
whole project going because Putin came out of that same
milieu in st. Petersburg.
He was like, the deputy mayor. And the mayor was just this
full-scale capitalists who, you know, was handing, the city over
to the free market. So they thought why would do
anything different. He was also a former KGB agent
and a Dresden Office of the KGB who, you know, turned out the
lights of the on the Soviet Union.
There, he saw like his entire country just disappear
overnight. Night, and it was just as tragic
for him as it was for most of Russians, who we never hear from
and he was a nationalist nationalism.
Threatens, the u.s., when it comes from a place like Russia
Venezuela, China Cuba and that's really, you know, you hear about
communism or Socialism or whatever.
At the end of the day, the leaders of these countries are
nationalists and they want to protect their sovereignty and
their people and that's what Putin was so you know, he starts
Cracking down on the oligarchs to some degree.
There's this guy mihail Carter. Carter coughs key from yukos
oil. He was like, just so criminally
corrupt and wanted to just shaft the state.
The way berezovsky had just keep the Looting going Putin.
Put him on trial, put him in a cage.
He like did this whole big PR Extravaganza with like the
biggest. Most crooked corrupt oligarch in
a cage on TV and they sentenced him.
Him. I think he got like ten years.
The the west Western media painted it as like, you know,
Sacco and Vanzetti or something. It was like this, the worst
thing that could ever be done. He's abusing this heart.
This wonderful guy so hard. Ah, coughs key eventually,
leaves and him and his son fund the opposition to Putin working,
you know, hand in glove, with us intelligence, there's a film
about him called like mr. K or something?
That came out on Netflix, that Paints him as this like, you
know, heroic opposition leader. But that was a statement was
making to the oligarchs, which is like we are this, you going
to work with the state or you're going to go to jail, he
obviously didn't forbid Oleg arcs, or billionaires or
whatever. But if he's just like you need
to give give, you know, you're under my control your under the
control of the Kremlin. He's going to strengthen the
Kremlin. 2007, he appears at the Munich security conference
which, you know, is a generally, a neocon forum, you know, it's a
formed a lot of leaders, get get together there but it's
basically, you know where NATO leaders say their piece and
Putin gets up with John McCain neocon number one warmonger
number one sitting in the front row, next to Joe Lieberman his
buddy. All right.
And Putin says Enough is enough, you went to Iraq.
You violated a country sovereignty.
You destabilize, the entire region, you continue to do this.
And we are not going to take it anymore.
We are going to stand up for sovereignty of states and that
shook the u.s. foreign policy establishment, that was kind of
the big break. And then the following year
Saakashvili, who I was talking about before the guy installed
in Georgia, by the US As they're a little puppet, he invades on
August 7th, I believe South ossetia which is a majority
russian-speaking region that was disputed between Georgia and
Russia. And he thought he had the green
light from the US the following day.
And, you know, you can compare South ossetia to the independent
republics the separatists republics in eastern.
Ukraine. Like this is a very good way of
understanding what's happening now.
So he goes in there with his troops.
He thinks he can do it thinks he has the backing of the US and
then Putin comes in like hours later or the Russian army comes
in hours later. I don't know if the u.s.
expected it and just wipes out his military completely.
There's footage of Saakashvili on TV.
He's shaken by what had happened, and he's actually
chewing on his tie. He's eating his tie, and he was
completely discredited and the u.s. actually abandoned him.
After this, he wound up becoming a stripped of his nationality in
Georgia, and we A legislator in Ukraine, because it was like the
next, you know, next project. So that was another huge
breaking point where the West said, like we can't take this
guy's actually defending his Frontiers, like we want to
control the planet. I mean, and there was a doctrine
that the u.s. was operating under from the second Bush
Administration on every Administration.
After 9/11 is, Operated under this Doctrine and it's just that
it's the doctrine of I don't know what to call it, total us
hegemony, but it was spelled out in a paper called the project
for a New American Century which was signed by.
You all know about this probably was signed by like mostly neocon
some Hardline Democrats and they called the they called the
article that spelled out their Doctrine benevolent hegemony
that the you I will be a benevolent dictator of the world
and the two authors of this one was Bill kristol.
Yeah, boy, you know who he is. Oh, yeah, he's been embraced by
the Democrats, but he was a republican, right time?
Big supporter of the George W. Do you went where the win?
Where the wind blows like, you know?
I mean, yeah, he knew where to go.
Well, he you know, the Neo cons were always Democrats but they
they they, they're, they're trotskyist kind of, and so like,
what trotskyist do they do entry isn't like they, they Best
political movements, they burrow from within and kind of take
them over, right? I'm start their little
committees and they raise their little funds and then they take
over into the Vanguard. So that's what they did in the
in the Bush Administration, they got the that's a civilians in
the Pentagon, you know, wolfowitz and Richard Perle and
these characters Douglas feith but not then they they went and
bested the Democratic party because they realize the
Democrats are actually the real war party like after Trump came
along and kind of did as America first thing.
So you're bill kristol Cool. And then the other guy who I
think a lot of people don't know but who's really significant is
another neocon named Robert Kagan.
Bob Kagan Bob, Kagan advised, George W.
Bush Mitt Romney and then Hillary Clinton he fundraise for
Hillary Clinton. So again, he just Burrows from
with him and his wife Victoria nuland.
Right now is the top state department official presiding
over Ukraine. Russia policy and who are now?
Who is she? Who is Victoria nuland?
She ran a. She was a founder of a Democrat.
Warmongering Democrat think. Tank in Washington called the
center for a new American Security fund but funded by the
arms industry, she worked with Tony blinken, the Secretary of
State and a who's who of foreign policy advisers at this corrupt,
little Consulting cartel called West exec advisors where they
would use all the connections they made when they were in the
Obama. Ministration to hump in
contracts for like Silicon Valley, firms or firms, like
they would help firms get, you know, into Saudi Arabia's
Market. They're completely corrupt and
Victoria nuland in 2014. Was the key figure presiding
over the coup. In Ukraine, that set the stage
for this war. She there's a phone call,
everyone watching this. Just look up.
Victoria nuland phone call on YouTube Ukraine.
Phone, call Ukraine. And I'd like the Russians.
The Russian intelligence had tapped her phone and they leaked
the details of it, and you can hear her.
And the US ambassador to Kiev at the time.
Jeffrey piete, piete, it's spelled pyh.
ET, they were just deciding, who would be in the next Ukrainian
Government after the coup took place, which the u.s. have
funded Victoria nuland was seeing like, in 2012, there's
video of this to online posting that the u.s. had contributed
seven billion dollars to the Ukrainian opposition since the
end of the Cold War and she's at an ExxonMobil sponsored event.
So she, she was like, handing out cookies on my done Square in
Kiev. When people were protesting For
a change in for regime change. And she was like, handing out
cookies, too literal neo-nazis who are the street muscle, as
well as, you know, young liberals, who just wanted a
better future. So, 2014 is a real turning
points. The Obama Administration.
You've got the Neo cons in there, the Arab Spring and
happened. So Obama toppled all these other
governments. The u.s. is just like, we're
going to keep toppling. Everything and Newland comes in,
she's like on my Don, John McCain comes to maidan square
with the Democrat, Chris Murphy from Connecticut and they give
speeches telling people like topple this government, the
government was elected, it was democratically elected.
It was a democratically-elected government run by a guy named
Victor Yanukovych, who, and they call him pro-russian.
Yanukovych. He wasn't necessarily
pro-russian but he did get, he had the support of the
population of Ukraine, which is russian-speaking and other 1/3
of ukrainians or so, identify with Russia are mainly Russian
speaking. And are terrified of the
government that's been in Kiev since 2014 Yanukovych
represented them, but he won with a majority.
He was a corrupt leader for No Doubt but basically how he got
defined as pro-russian, was that the Europeans came to him with a
deal along with the IMF called the European economic
Association agreement. And I was just austerity all.
It was like what happened to Russia in the 90s.
They're like, we're going to give you Aid.
But you have to loot the coffers of your, you know, loot, the
pensions this hand over all the state assets and put in your cut
Social Services, and then Russia, countered with another
deal. They said we're your neighbors
were right next door. We're going to give you very
cheap, gas to heat your to heat in the winter.
We're going to lower tariffs. We're going to send you grain
and we are going to like tighten this bond between these two
countries that were historically linked.
And Yanukovych said well I'm going to go with the better
deal. And then overnight the
protesters. The protests erupted in maidan.
Square. The Central Square in Kiev, do
you, do you think the protesters really were caring cared about
the association economic Association agreement, or an IMF
deal? Know, they were being just
flooded with propaganda through New Media stations, that just
like cropped up overnight, like one station, one of the key
stations that helped launch. The my Don coo is called
hromadske. And it was launched with money
from Pierre omidyar. Who is the owner of The
Intercept? Yeah, the intercepts like what
the fuck? What do midi are omitted as far
as I can tell, he's a and like, what, that's why I and like,
aside from Glenn Greenwald who left and kind of saw.
Yeah, yeah, well years, what it was.
They've like disappeared a lot of them and they disappeared the
Snowden files what though? That's so great.
I've only heard so many. There's so many insane layers to
this but we had to stay on that we got to just stay focused.
Yeah. When he 14 this government comes
in They put some oligarch at the top name.
Yachts in New York or something. All right, he's a billionaire
technocrat. But the neo-nazis are a real
Force because they may be 10, you know, they're ten percent of
the electorate supports them may be less but without them they
wouldn't have been able to beat the shit out of the bear.
Kuthi the the police that protected Yanukovych further,
there was a massacre, in my tan square of civilians.
Like 50 people were shot by snipers, that was a false flag.
And those were they were snipers he probably brought in from
Georgia. But the, there were neo-nazis
involved in it. Specifically, the character who
became the speaker of the Ukrainian Rada, the Ukrainian
Parliament, Andre Peru, be who, you know, I've grilled him in
wash, he's been brought to Washington.
He founded something called the social National party like
sounds like the National Socialist Party because it's
inspired by it. He founded a literary of oxy
militia called The Patriot of Ukraine and he's brought to
Washington. But this guy was deeply involved
in this whole scheme. There's a professor named Ivan
cut a czarsky from University of Ottawa who's broken.
The whole false flag operation down, but that's how they were
able to be like, Yanukovych is killing his own people, and they
forced him into this deal where the police stood down, and then
the neo-nazis raided, the presidential Palace nearly
killed him and basically drove him into Exile.
And then they went and fought this war in the East, where the
majority Majority of the Russian population was after massacring
over 50. Russian speakers in a union hall
in Odessa, which is another city with a lot of Russian speakers.
They went to the east. They formed the eyes of
Battalion which is the most militarily motivated fighting
force in Ukraine there like they're the main force on the
ground right now training civilians and you know, fighting
face-to-face with Russian soldiers.
They are openly neo-Nazi. Their leader.
Andre beletsky said, we need to destroy the the winter mention
and create a future for the white race that he called, the
Semitic UND intervention in a 20 2010 sa.
I mean, these guys are for real, they have the wolf's angle
Insignia on their uniforms. That's a Nazi inspired.
It's a symbol, and a lot of them have the Sun and grad, which is
the black Sun tattooed on their elbows.
And, you know, you'll see it on there, you know, on the various
other like signage and whatnot. But it's not just that this it's
what they believe in slaughtering Russian speakers
and the government has jailed the opposition leader who
represents the russian-speaking. In population, Victor
medvedchuk, they have shuttered all of his TV stations, they
just say oh well they're all Russian propaganda.
They do not tolerate any opposition in Kiev.
And, you know, this is this, is this guy, Vladimir zielinski,
the TV comedian who came in on a platform of making peace with
the russian-speaking population in donbas.
That was that had formed its own militias and was fighting and he
has completely surrendered to these fascist elements.
And like when you know, we hear the word fascist thrown around
in the That's like whatever truckers or like, guys in
Hawaiian shirts. Whoever this is for real.
I mean, these are people whose grandfather's collaborated
directly, with Nazi Germany to slaughter, ethnic poles to
slaughter Jews to slaughter Russian speakers and they're
naming Stadium. The name is stadiums and Roads
after stepan Bandera. The leader of the main Nazi
collaboration is force of World. War Two, the oun be They've
named stadiums after and Roads and throwing up monuments, to
Roman shukhevych, the leader of the UPA, the Ukrainian partisan
Army that participated in so many programs, the l'viv pogrom,
I mean, it was one of the worst programs of the war.
These are the programs of bullets, you know, they weren't
like just taking people off in trains and it was, this is a
holocaust of Bullock. Sorry, they weren't just taking
people off in trains and then like exterminate NG them through
industrial means they were killing them one by one or in
Mass Graves, like at Babi Yar, which is outside, Kiev the road
to Bobby, our was renamed under this government Stepan Bandera
Boulevard, 3 after spend are alike the key Nazi collaborator
and then after WWII what did the u.s. do?
You know, Operation Paperclip and all these operations to
bring them to the u.s. to set up a Ukrainian nationalist Lobby.
Me closely bed was a CIA asset who proves I did was involved
there, believe in the love of program, just a Slaughter of
Jews on behalf of Nazi Germany and he had a printing press set
up for him by the CIA. Say in New York City.
You know, if you ever go to New York City and they're like go
down to 2nd Avenue, where the Ukrainian population is there's
like a I'm not saying they're they're Nazis or whatever,
although maybe some of them sympathize with some of this, I
don't know. But that's where his printing
press was and I think it was called prologue.
I believe but this whole history fascinated me after 2014 but it
also frightened me because I So where it was going got all these
Nazis and their clear about what they want.
Like they are clearly stay clearly say we want to slaughter
the Russian speakers in the donbas in Donetsk and luhansk
which are these two republics that just declared independence
that Russia recognized. We want to balkanize Russia like
divided, Russian, 25 countries, and just weaken it and shatter
it. We want nuclear weapons.
And then we want it, we want to march on Moscow and kill the
muscovite judeo intervention like that's what they openly say
they want and then you got liberals in Washington who are
like, yeah, we want to do this form of that.
So your people, that we are just willing to work with while we
call the trucker's a bunch of Nazis.
Exactly. Yeah.
So you're watching this in real time because like I wasn't I
wasn't And hip on Ukrainian Russian politics and 2014.
And now this whole thing happens and, you know, my whole thing
with what's happening now is like, I don't know what my take
is, I haven't done the research, you know, I don't know what's
going on and you see everyone line up behind Ukraine.
And then you hear these murmurs of well, they're like they're
huge percentage of them is neo-nazis, right?
Or whatever you're saying, right?
But you're saying it. Once I wanted to, he said, one
third of the population was against in Ukraine was Was
against what. Like that's a, that's a pretty
large percentage of the population to be 1/3 of the
population at least. Are there like ethnic Russians?
Tasty? Yeah.
Russian in their homes. Yeah.
They watch Russian media, right?
Right. Hey watch RT.
So they're stressed out right now right there.
There their feet are to the fire and this whole they've been
stressed out. I mean that's what happened in
2014 is a war started in the East where most of them live and
they wanted Not be part of this insane state that had just been
declared, like their language was always an official language
in Ukraine, and the new government in Kiev said no
Russian is not. We don't want it to be an
official language. You are second class. 5th class
citizens, we hate. You want to show you that?
We hate you. We want to weaken the Russian
Orthodox church where you pray. They were there in so many ways.
They were just told that they were not part of Ukraine, but at
the same time that government did not want, Aunt.
To part with that land that they were on because they wanted to
exploit it. And so, they wouldn't allow them
to vote in elections. They were and these, these Lou
constant Donetsk, luhansk and Donetsk, it's hard to say.
If you're an English speaker, they are basically socialist.
Breakaway Republic's that organize, their own people's
fighting force and not socialists in the way that like
the DSA and like Bernie people of socialist, they're like
they're pretty hard, you wouldn't ask you.
Like they are not like it. Well I'll get into that later.
I mean I actually I'll get into that in a second.
They took a stand and they died in large numbers.
Yeah, they didn't they didn't have like a lot of organization
in the beginning but they did mobilize into a very potent
fighting force. Yes, Russia.
'He did support them but Russia was not there.
These are ukrainians fighting ukrainians whose rights have
been Stripped Away. And most of the deaths like
14,000 people have died in hideous ways you know there were
there were reports of mobile mortuaries like mobile Body
Disposal brigades to hide the deaths from International
monitors. Just people being shelled in
their homes. So many people losing limbs but
14,000 of died since 2014. And according to the UN since
2017, over eighty percent of those deaths have been on the
ethnic Russian or russian-speaking side.
So you have this giant human rights crime happening in a war
happening. With people suffering who are
basically stateless who are also their leadership is saying we
are socialists. They're fighting just fighting
for their rights, I would, but they're aligned with Russia.
So there's no solidarity from the DSA for them.
There's no solidarity from the US, socialist for them, they're
completely kept out of the US media.
There are suffering, the killing of them, and their children, the
shelling, Being completely ignored.
And we only hear about them is just kind of like Russian
separatist. So most Americans don't even
know their Ukrainian. And that really is part of the
reason that Russia intervened in Ukraine was that the Ukrainian
military had was escalating against that population.
And I know, because I interviewed an American who is
fighting with them from Texas, I can connect you with him.
He's a fascinating figure. His name is Russell, Bentley,
you know, check out our interviews with him at the gray
Zone, but, yeah, he told me what was happening days before the
Russian intervention he's evasive, is going to be a huge
War. They're shelling us.
Now, with a grad Rockets, this hasn't happened like a bunch of
people were killed last night and Putin's going to go in and
he's going to D, not safai Ukraine.
And I was like, what are you talking about?
Like this is like, I haven't heard this.
And he was right. So just some more context for
understanding and I mean again it's like it's not your fault.
If you don't know all these details partly because I don't
have a real job where I like work on roads or whatever like
this. Yeah, I used to I mean I did
work real jobs country. Can't wait to tell the guys at
work tomorrow. And yeah, I just wait.
Yeah, yeah, you just learn about Ukrainian Nazis and you can
quit. What is going on with the
propaganda in the u.s. regarding this?
Like that's like you know first of all that was amazing.
Like I've learned so much already.
Yeah. I feel like I got some ammo now
to kind of shell around right. You feel the same?
Yeah, I think. Yeah, I know, I know, I was
just, I was just wondering to how does like for, because we're
what really kind of chills me to the core.
Even with the little knowledge, I had, you know, up until 40
minutes ago of of all this stuff was like Where does like Russia
gate fit in on just manufacturing consent not to use
you know, a certain guys term there but and like where does
Russia gate fit in? Because I mean it's got to be it
was open season on Putin where all you do is say was Putin and
and the entire nation for the most part is like let's do it.
You know, our let's let's let's save Ukraine and then all of a
sudden the same exact people and we're going to talk over it in a
second, but the same exact people who were just psychos
about covid. Who wanted you to Die In Your
House? Wanted you to die of a drug
overdose excess deaths. All All that kind of stuff.
Those people just, I don't know where dropped covid like the Toy
Story meme where and he's dropping the toy when he sees
Buzz Lightyear. It's the exact same thing.
They line up and they're just like, well, Russia gate that was
drilled into my brain now, covid is seems to be dying down a
little bit. Let's move on to this.
Like I don't I feel like it's lazy for me to say that.
Oh man, like I whatever the lives do.
I'm just going to do the other the other thing.
But like I don't even think I'm wrong.
If I do, that's the sad part like, It's the sad part.
So like where does the Russia gate?
You know thing go in on all this?
Like how how do you have any facts on that?
I guess. Have you seen the meme that's
going around where it's like I'm for the thing the career thing.
Yeah that one yeah like there's so much meaning in that it
really spoke to me whether it's covid or Russia gate.
Every day for the rest of our lives and really since 9/11.
But I think Russia gate was a real turning point and the Trump
era. Sure.
There's there's a thing. What do we mean by the thing?
We need? What the historian and
journalist Peter Dale, Scott called a deep political event
and it's when a political event occurs and is presented to the
public, In a way that allows Elite forces and malign forces
to manipulate them in a in order to achieve an ulterior
objective, like the let's look at 911, what is the Patriot Act?
How did that come out? Like the day after 9/11?
Someone just sit down and write thousands of pages and we like
bourbon? Yeah, search and seizure.
In order to get there through which was the consolidation of a
massive Security State and all of that was put together by
something called the free commission named after the FBI
director, who is this real Law and Order hardliner under Bill
Clinton Louis freeh. So they just put it all together
and then it's at there. Russia gate is the same thing,
like they were just there were elements that the
neoconservatives the u.s. you us intelligence and National
Security, State apparatus, sort of that it partly been
constructed out of 9/11, but you know, who's looking for a new
Cold War? The diff the Pentagon wanted to
justify its budget and then in comes the President, Trump,
who's like erratic, he threatens the Don't you know, he's not
down with NATO, he humiliated the the Great White neocon Hope,
Jeb Bush, and his family on the debate stage.
I mean, he kind of he was hip to the whole game in a way.
He didn't even understand. He was like, I never remember
the first Republican debate. He's like I donated to all of
you, I donated because they were like Marco Rubio.
Little Marco said you donated to Hillary Clinton, he said I
donated to everyone on this stage.
I did it because you buy influence in America.
That shocked really. So they're like, we need to do
something to screw him over, everyone had a reason but but
the people who I think we're really driving the agenda.
They just wanted to use Trump to get it, Putin and Russia because
Russia was a counterweight to u.s. benevolent hegemony because
Putin had done all the things. I said he was starting to assert
himself and you have China there as well and so that the Hillary
Clinton dead-enders came up with Russia gate as a way of
embarrassing. Trump and there be there is this
convergence of interests that fueled this hysteria and
generated, a deep political Event Event around the hacking
of the DNC. Remember and the podesta emails
and we still don't know actually who is responsible for that.
I mean, there's a theory that it may have been a leak.
And not a hack or huh. I don't want to get into that,
but no, actually, I do want to get into it.
I mean, that was killed in such a suspicious way.
Look, aside from that, it happened that That isn't this
embarrassing information. Came out about Hillary's
campaign and that became the basis for Lincoln Trump and
Putin and convincing a large portion of America's population.
The most suggestible portion, the easily, the most easily,
siop portion of the population that the president was
controlled by Russia and that therefore Vladimir Putin,
controlled America, that every bad thing, that happened under
Donald Trump or anything that scared them like Charlotte.
Jill was actually Putin's fault, which was like the orgasmic wet
dream fantasy of every CIA spook, like John Brennan, who
was driving this whole agenda, former CIA director.
So who is that psyop population, the most educated, most
affluent? Most erudite, most enlightened
part of the population was the most easily psyops because
they're the most tuned in to the New York Times NPR Washington
Post, New Yorker, and they it all became this psycho.
Otic feedback loop of propaganda.
And you know you have let's say you're a baby boomer.
You grew up leaving in the New York Times And The Washington
Post Washington. Post it, Bob Woodward was there
and he broke Watergate and so they're telling you this is
worse than water. Getting Carl Bernstein's on TV
telling you. Yeah this is we've got to go get
Trump. This is about this is crazier
than the story that I broken. All the Baby Boomers the liberal
Boomers. They all believe if the
Washington Post and Carl Bernstein, you're saying it has
to be true. We trust ya then but the people
who didn't trust it, you know those are the people Like
listening to Joe Rogan. Now, these are even like the
normies who are like, I'm an independent or the or the
trumpeters. They were completely like
shunted aside and nobody listened to them but they
weren't buying into it. And so there's this whole
portion of the population that becomes actually a threat to the
National Security State, that's where January 6 comes in,
because then they rear their ugly head on January 6 as the
insurrectionists and, you know, maybe Is behind it, but there
are people who are following the completely different line of
media queuing on like, yeah. That's that's what they're into
their into q and on. So we need to regulate that,
that, that population becomes the target of the National
Security State, after Russia gate kind of dies out and that
provides the bridge from Russia gate to the covid hysteria.
Because, if you remember, I mean, this is my impression the
covid. Hysteria didn't the Covidien
narrative. It didn't really come in until
the vaccine mandates came in during the lockdown.
So it's like we're all in this together, bang your pots and
pans. Yeah, it was the vaccine that
really divided everyone became like the partisan dividing line
and it was deliberate because it's about further fracturing,
the 99% between they created a new category.
The unvaccinated who are the people who won't listen to the
New York Times And The Washington Post and maybe the
need to queue and on and the Who are the compliant ones who are,
you know, more educated and their aspirational.
And so all of like its it just becomes this this sort of
pipeline of deep political propaganda from one event to the
next. The drives.
A portion of the population that I think has the most cultural
influence. Definitely in the u.s.
completely batshit insane. And they need And then something
else was going to come along. I mean, the covid thing.
You know, they kept it going for a little while longer than I
expected. Yeah.
Oh no, it's pretty impressive. Yeah, I wanted to.
I wanted that. Oh sorry, sorry.
I want to know what the heck? I just wanted to ask you real
fast because some II think it would be doing our listeners, a
bit of a disservice if I didn't. But there is a lot of people who
have been, you know, I, we have a very small fan base but
there's a few people who are just been like on this.
You know what I mean on this from since the beginning And,
you know, I don't know if you've seen some of the sentiment
online but a lot of the dissident you know, left media.
I guess if that's what I want to call it, a lot of them, you
know, are kind of left. A sour taste in some of the
truthers mouths by being. Maybe a little bit late on it,
I've heard your name tossed in there.
I don't know your Genesis of like covid true thing or
anything like that. But my dude sympathize maybe
with some of these people that maybe some of the media class
could have stepped in during school lockdowns.
At the beginning, remote virtual learning that we still Have
masks in schools and things. Do you do feel like maybe the
media was a little bit late on that?
Or do you feel like having a bigger platform?
It is tougher to speak out, you know.
Well, I'm not, I wouldn't identify with the media class.
Well, the comedian never let me know what I mean.
Yeah. Yeah.
The media class never went in the other direction.
They were the enforcers. But from my point of view, yeah,
I came in, I came in when the Dates were announced.
Okay. That's what I actually sort of
act. I decided, yeah, I decided to
speak out because I just decided it was just completely unethical
and wrong and it was going to be destructive and that it was
going to lead to. I mean, I saw it leading to
something like the trucker Convoy and then like the new new
security Crackdown and so, I spoke out should have spoken out
before but there were a lot of reasons.
Why. I didn't.
So like when I did start speaking out, I had someone on
who was one of the first kind of dissident voices on my show at
Rahman CJ. Hopkins says, it's a way of
saying, like, I'm going to platform these people right and
use the large platform. I have that they don't have to
give them a voice. And I can't, I can't, I can't do
it at YouTube, you know, you can.
So I just started this life. Stream at Rahman.
So that's what I've been doing week in and week out there.
Yeah. But I never I didn't really like
switch sides like I never believed in it.
Maybe I went like a week or so I was like, okay.
Let me see if this is Ebola or not, right?
Yeah. And then I just kind of threw in
the towel and was like the masks and like wearing some cloths
month on my face. Stop the spread, that's
ridiculous. The lockdowns were obviously.
Absurd. And what I did was, you know,
because at the gray Zone, it wasn't just me like some
independent voice. Like we were a group of
reporters. I was an editor, who founded it.
I was overseeing the operation by was working with other people
and we had this mission of kind of our main bag was
anti-imperialism. So we went to Bolivia to cover
an election that reversed the coup we went To Venezuela
repeatedly because Venezuela was the target of a really ferocious
regime change attempt by the Trump Administration.
And I think we made a huge impact there.
And I was also able to see people like in the tropical
region of Cochabamba who are just living life, normally and
treating covid natural herbs and talk to them.
And it helped me kind of understand covid in a different
light, but I didn't speak out about the lockdowns and Leslie,
like, if I'd been in Europe, I might have seen it differently
because they were much harsher there or Australia and then the
other Factor was that, you know, you all I've listened to your
show. I'm a fan.
And you know, it's therapeutic for me to listen because you
talked about having dip your toe, in the left or immerse
yourself briefly in the left. Eye was like in the deep end.
Yeah, yeah, probably. I still am like a hundred
percent. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. And And the left had taken this
demented position. Yeah.
That that is that that covid. Restrictions would bring about I
mean this is actually what a lot of them is thought and they've
said in the covid restrictions would help bring about the basis
for communism. Yes yeah they thought the the
original lockdown was a general strike, they got all the general
strike that would they would withhold their labor labor?
I'm not going back to work until capitalism's over and then that
they had to head to an irrational fear of the virus.
And you know, I'm not not going to knock any regular civilian
down for just being scared of Kobe.
That's that's yeah, we're decision, but supporting jerk.
In measures that did lead to these excess deaths as you
alluded to in Russia and stuff. But like, led to that here in
our own backyards. And now it's do you see excess
deaths happening? No, there's no bombs going off.
There's no, you know, shrapnel and like, stuff like that, and
all these crazy things. But at the end of the day, they
were teasing covid. As though there were going to be
Mass Graves underneath turnpike's in like the east
coast and stuff. So they they were alluding to
that too and and that and that's kind of what I tell people in
that sense to where they'll say, you know, there's people that
will say Like why can't people see you?
Like, what you guys have been saying?
I'm like, you know what? I think a lot of them do like,
but the some of these people have huge platforms and it is
their livelihood and I'm not not talk about you.
I just mean in general, people with big platforms that have a
lot more scrutiny than us, like, for the longest time when we
were first talking about covid. Being, you know, maybe not
what's being cracked up to be? We'd like 60 listeners.
Like, yeah. I might have been generous
there. Like it's like I did the idea.
That one of them is going to Doc's me and get rid of my job.
My probability wasn't very high. So, I understand why that
happens, but I do feel that I did feel the need to at least
get an answer on that because like there are some people who
are like, no man that if you weren't if you weren't on this
March, 14th of 2020, like hi, you're a fed.
You know what I'm saying? I'm like that is a word.
I don't throw around like that. I just, I don't know you publish
you published, if I'm get me wrong, our friend.
Jeremy Le Fredo. I mean, you're a brilliant piece
of Jeremy. The Fredo who I think, is one of
the best at just actual, like, you know, who the Spooks are.
Who, Who these people are. And there was a piece in there,
talking about vaccine passport technology and how impressive
that it is and stuff. And that's not something that
you put out there, you know, if you're scared, you know.
I mean, if you and if you are submerged in leftism, in the
waters of leftism, that is something that I've respected.
That was when you popped on my radar.
When we had talked to Jeremy and I was like, man, this is cool.
Like, yeah, like this is cool. Also, I got to say, what got me
back on your radar because I've known you for a little while,
but what got me back on your radar was Be absolutely electric
Jimmy Door. Max Blumenthal talking.
Shit about Noam Chomsky vaccine apartheid be.
Oh, I love. I will.
I listen to like four times? I think it's so great.
I believe that shit up. Cuz yeah, dude, I heard Chomsky
was was saying something and I found the video and then I blew
it up on Twitter. And, you know, that was that was
that you read the official campaign, the manufacturing
camp. Consent campaign to demonize the
unvaccinated and call for their deaths and Chomsky was
participating in it. So I just thought, you know, I'm
going to face a crazy backlash for this but I can make a
difference here with with you know, my yeah platform and what
I've done. And what I want to do is just
throw myself in there. Take all the hits I can and
break the left. Since on this issue and I feel
like with Jimmy, Dore me and Jimmy, you know, Jimmy wasn't
always the way that he is now where he's completely red
pilled. I mean he's if it wasn't for
him, it wouldn't this wouldn't have happened, the kids.
I don't think the consensus would have broken in the same
way and he had been injured by the moderna vaccine.
Like so many people I know and I and you know what shocks me is
that I know a bunch of people on the lockdown left who are
injured by the modernity. Erna vaccine in crazy ways and
they just saw him earlier as well.
Yeah. Well, everyone knows name was
saying, yeah. They saw it as part of like,
it's almost like they saw it as part of this ritual, like
military service. Yeah.
Battle scar. I'm a veteran type thing.
It was weird. Yeah, they told me in person,
and I would just be like, why won't you say anything in?
Like they will get kicked out of their socialist organization.
They will lose the Artists among the followers of their podcast,
like, whatever the left is just like if you think like covid is
tyrannical, like, take the Tyranny and then just like
bottle, it up and compress it, and then fill it up with, like,
a gain-of-function research, do gain-of-function research on it.
That's the atmosphere of the left on covid.
It's yeah, insane. So I, you know, Jimmy and me
were talking and I feel like I helped him crystallize.
What he was going through and he it's just honest.
He's just an honest person, he's honest enough to say this is
fucked up and they shouldn't be happening and shouldn't be
forced on people and he just took it upon himself to do night
after night of breaking down the Covidien lies and he brought me
on and I mean in the beginning night after night and we, you
know, we're kind of like a one-two combination and I think
that started playing a role in And affecting the lockdown left.
Sense of confidence and what happened?
What I noticed. And, of course, there were so
many people that came before us who laid, the basis for
everything and who probably did a better job of breaking down
the Covidien narrative, but Jimmy has a million subscribers
on YouTube and you had like he has like a he has a team of
people. He consults it YouTube on how he
can talk about. He's one of the few people
allowed to Talk about covid on YouTube because that's while he
he has so many subscribers, they're willing to work with
him. Sure.
It's like how Kim Iverson can say, what she says on the hill
because they has treated well by YouTube so other people
couldn't. So it was just an opportunity.
Okay. Yeah, we did it, we took it and
what happened was so many people turned on me in the most insane
ways possible. I mean, we're talking about like
Some some of the closest people to me.
Yeah, turned on me, but they could never face me directly.
None of them said, one word to me privately and none of them
would debate me. Yeah, well that's exactly what
happened to it was the most cowardly shit I ever saw.
Yeah, that's like the for a cowardly take.
So why not go about it. And what our leeway?
I mean, straight up, that's the Sam Harris.
Joe Rogan thing to, you know, that's his whole thing is.
I love that Arc. Do like him just talk.
Shit, not like texting his friends or whatever, Sam Harris,
but just calling him out on his pop podcast, whatever.
And I just wanted to say to that, I love the, I love the
tulle of even mildly critiquing Chomsky as, like, a, that's like
a dividing line, which, you can know if you're talking to a real
one or not, what some people just cannot critique Chomsky
under any circumstances. And it's like, what the fuck is
that about, you know, and it's great.
And it's like the second he's talking about, like, well, they
need to figure out how they get their own food if there.
Unvaccinated. And we put them into camps, like
it's like yo, are you like, that's like as long in the
fucking sand for me, dude. Like, I don't know.
So, yeah. No.
And I, and you cannot achieve accuse Jimmy Dore of being,
like, when he's on something, he's on it.
And he will not back down. So, and he's funny about it,
too. He still finds a way to be
funny. Like, that's why I respect that
a lot because, you know, you have like, yeah, I mean getting
back to like the, you know, with the left on this, like, for me
like I, you know, I went through an entire political Journey like
from like 29. 18 to now like an entire likely lifetime of
politics. I feel like where I'm just like,
oh, that, that's cool. I got student loan debt.
Like let's see, what's going on there, you know, like, let's see
what why? I try to organize a union at a
company once, like, that's pretty cool.
And then I'll, you know, I remember for a while like, you
know, him and I we have drastic takes on a lot of other vaccines
besides this one. So like you know, we were dip
our toe, and there were a lot of people that were really, really
passionate on the left about They were they were they would
say that like you know they were just really passionate about
pharmaceuticals in general. They would just get mad about
the accessibility. Okay.
That's fine. Yeah.
I think, I think a lot of this stuff should be accessible to
everybody like that's I but yeah I mean then the mandates come
and it's like we get back to the to the to the Nazi stuff that we
were talking about. It's like okay you guys are
carrying the water for Bill Gates.
Who does like gurbles level stuff and And you know all this
gross stuff in third in the global South and all that and
then you know you have your proponent of a Klaus Schwab
Society, who is a direct descendant of a Nazi and all
that stuff. And you feel like this is
somehow the the way the, the pathway to get to, you know,
what you want this, this Ultra epic, like, Reddit communism,
which I just don't, I don't see that coming, and they use that
as like this. This dollar bill, they can
Dangle on a fishing pole for you to like reach.
A chat where it's like, here take this vaccine where that,
where this much closer to this. And to me, I just reject the
entire framework. Now, you know, it's like, I've
showered so much on the left and and like, yeah, I don't know.
I mean, when we talk about the left, like, what are we talking
about? I think we're talking about the
organized left. So, like, and then that and it
doesn't mean the Democratic party, although it's so similar.
So often when I think of the left, I think of like this, B
soup of tiny socialist parties like sectarian little parties
that really know in the end that they are not going to bring
about a socialist Revolution, a percent.
And so they'll settle for something that resembles
socialism vaguely that actually is, maybe at best Progressive
interpretation of the great reset.
And if you actually read, if you actually read the great reset.
Yeah. It's a long and boring Jacobin
article. That's what class Schwab's
writing really feels like. Use the Buzz words.
They know who their target audiences.
Yeah. Klaus Schwab.
Blurbed Naomi Klein's book. What was it their book on her
book on the climate? No.
The shock Doctrine was actually
a good book. Covid is the shock Doctrine.
I know, but she's just like a Covidien Boutique left.
She's like the left hand of the great reset.
I, they're all like, it just doesn't seem like a natural
trajectory, like, just take that.
That man, just take that next step.
Like, just follow the breadcrumbs, man.
It's now, just take that next step in and lose all your
friends and like, piss off everybody around you because
it's very, you know, everybody, so many people around me were
like locked down leftists. And what, what I mean where I
was going with this was I wanted to say two things.
Like number one, it's just a personal issue for me.
A lot of this is personal. I mean, the politics is
personal. That's kind of what drew me into
the Left in general, is just my own personal experience.
And you know, one thing I experienced I grew up in
Washington DC in the 80s and 90s.
It was a black City. I grew up in a mostly black area
and I experienced I did experience a lot of police
repression harassment. Constantly the cops thought I
was like buying drugs if I was driving around there because
there weren't that many white people driving around in a Ford
for DC and they would always harass me, pull me over we in my
friend of mine. Who is also white we'd get
arrested. Just all the time.
Like like like like repeatedly just for driving around our
neighborhood. And then if we had our you know
any black friends in the car, we just get pulled over taken out
searched. You know, they like the cops
would like search our grundle like, you know, play with they
like they put their like their hands up there.
I was a cop held me at gunpoint once because I reached for my
registration too fast, you're pulled over for no reason.
Why, we were turning a video to block.
Like Buster you know because like that's how old I am.
I wasn't saying age docs. Yeah.
And then he proceeded to slam my friend on the hood of the car.
Put his cuffs on him while I was just standing there.
Like what the hell is going on? Each threw him in jail for and I
worry what movie were you returning?
Not skinny. Yeah.
I was returning crash. Yeah.
I was just returning some videotapes, like, Patrick
Bateman. Yeah.
The point is, so police brutality for me and the George
Floyd stuff and all of that. Eric Garner, everything for me,
it wasn't about being part of the left.
For me, it was just about me really not liking the cops
because of what they did to me. And my friends that same friend
who was arrested. He wound up being beaten by
Yonkers PD in the craziest in Incident where he did nothing
and they handcuffed him, pepper-sprayed him, three cops,
just beating him with nightsticks and then he was
charged with assaulting an officer.
He couldn't leave the country for years, he's put on trial.
I mean, it was insane. I can tell you so many stories
like this, and that's what kind of brought me into the left was
just that feeling of hatred of unjust Authority.
Right? And and, and I believed in civil
liberties and so covid comes along.
I have my own. Personal experiences with the
medical system. I don't really care to divulge
them like now, maybe someday I'll tell the story but I've
been you I feel like I've been used as a profit Center for big
Pharma and not voluntarily. Basically you know thinking I
was like I had to like save my life and so I was immediately
suspicious when the discussion of a vaccine that's going to
vaccinate our way out of the pandemic and it's experimental
gene-therapy MRI. NAA that's never been used
before and I thought well it should be a choice and people
shouldn't be fired for this and I'm going to stand with workers.
I'm on the left like stand for ya workers.
Rights workers going to get a gene therapy World Unite.
Even my two books on Palestine for five years, I worked on that
issue, that was personal to us about being Jewish, like I was
raised Jewish and Washington DC and they told you, you know, you
got to be a Zionist, you got to support this little apartheid
state, a few thousand miles away.
And there's some brown people there who are terrorists and
the, you know, that provoke certain questions.
So for me, there was never any, I was raised, of course, in
liberalism, like liberalism was Liberal education.
Like, you know, multiculturalism all of those things are part of
it. But but the left or the radical
left or the Socialist left, like I just kind of gravitated into
that without knowing it or thinking I never discussed up
and said, you know, I read some marks today and I want to be
socialist, I've been reading a lot of theory and this is who I
am and I'm going to wear a red star and like yeah, that's true.
So, I was surrounded by people like that who found this
identity in it, and when I took this position, that was a
personal issue for me that my medical decision should be made
by me, and I should have the freedom to do it.
And, you know, I should have informed consent and I believe
in my body, my choice, all that shit.
When I started that, those people told me that I am a right
winger. Yeah, you're right.
This is right way. Yeah.
And Things will never be the same.
I mean, they and their they're lucky man.
They're lucky for this war because they're yes isshin was
just fun. Yeah, they could drop it like
nothing man. And and Mike I thought it was to
me like when I deal with like people who are just like Ardent
communist and stuff, I'm like, you know what?
That's that's fine. You've done, well, I'm or
reading on it than I have like, whatever that is what it is.
But like for me I'm like, okay, you guys really want like
because I've seen certain people like say like we should do
door-to-door injections we should do.
I got I've seen psychotic stuff and I'm like blow darts.
Yeah, yeah, yeah release it in the water, put it in the food
supply, some famous one of the famous, most socialist podcasts
out there. I've said that before and the,
you know, all that kind of stuff.
But like to me, I'm like, are you not an American like oh you
know like I'm sorry we're like I doing the Randy Marsh like this
is America things like are you not?
Are you not an American, like not value like just like basic
Freedom? Like at all, like I don't think
that's such a To me and like these are the people who like
wanted e-platform speech that they don't like and all that
stuff. But it's like, it always seems
to just kind of barely walk side by side.
Maybe a little tangentially with just straight up neoliberalism
like it also. Yeah, Marx was Pro body autonomy
to? That's the thing, like for
anyone who's like Pro Marxist pro-communist, you know,
pro-vaccine mandate. What is it?
That I'm not on Reddit much but I've used it a few.
It's one of them being locked down, critical left, and I
haven't right up here, the pin, the top thing for, like a year
or two, has been marks on freedom of the press 18:42 is
not death, more desirable than life, that is a preventive
measurement against death, does not life.
Involve also free movements, right?
And it's like, so, there's just no Fox would even if you're
invoking marks, even not be down with this shit, you know.
And even if it did, if he was, I wouldn't care.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Yeah yeah yeah yeah. That's my perspective on it.
Yeah. I don't know if you've ever
listened to Red Star radio but I would yeah I would recommend is
everyone listening to this you should check those some
crossover. Yeah little cross over here.
Yeah for sure. Yeah, definitely.
I mean, you know it's a home for for I think a lot of left people
who feel politically homeless because of the whole covid issue
and the and Canadian as well too.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Laila metre.
And Alexander McCall. A, I mean they're friends of
mine and they actually would try to take on the theory of Marxism
and like, actually flip it on the head of the lockdown leftist
who identifies socialist or a Marxist and like, they
constantly make the point that Lenin was always writing about
Freedom as an ideal as the ideal.
Yeah. But I'm not going.
I just I'm not going to bother going down that road of theory.
Yeah. And my and my whole thing is
Okay, you know all these Theory leftist or whatever, I've been
on the wrong side of covid and all the chud's magically have
been correct. You know what's that about?
You know, there's something there that's really interesting
object, a basic choice of your boss.
I mean, it's like, yeah, you could like, I'm sorry if I see
where you're like, okay, do you want this experimental
gene-therapy, mRNA shot where a bunch of monkeys died during the
during the testing a, by all that's up.
Do you want this shot or not? And if somebody pulls out a book
I'm like, yeah, okay. You lost like he's like what do
you want? You know I mean what do you
want? This is a basic decision.
Yeah. You haven't read the books bro.
Yeah, the guy just like ladder those like big library.
Library swings over to those little Mark's and yeah, hang on.
Who here is a coupe vicuna non? Why myocarditis is a socialist.
Yeah. Exactly.
No. It's because you think they fit
everything into like this intellectual procrustean bed.
That doesn't to the point where they can't actually Listen to
themselves, think independently, or critically and all of these
socialist organizations have like leadership and these little
kind of In-House intellectuals that everyone is supposed to
look up to and they decide they decided what the line was on
covid. Yeah.
And they decided it the line came in for some of these
organizations. After the narrative had
completely collapsed in the ruling class, had basically
given up on it and some of them were like, well, we just need to
do what China's doing after. Like Ami.
Grounded infected, everyone. They're like we need to put
everyone on lockdown. Yeah we're all just trying to
doing they just stopped at. I mean they just like we're like
we're done. Like that's what I mean.
Like essentially like I mean China in their own sense like
they're they have parts of it that are interesting, but a lot
of China, they weren't testing asymptomatic people for a long
time. Like I mean, it's like we we
this the leftist don't even know what they were doing over there
half the time. It's it's insane to me and I
guess, you know, I guess my last question of the night for you is
where like Can there be a like a?
Like a left, right? And let you know, some people
say fake left. We do it with the PDF, like
Pfizer. Like some people say that, but
like, you know, the left a lot of people is just the left like,
right? So we're talking about a left,
can there be after this? Can there be an actual thing
that still has the name, the left and be for workers for
bodily autonomy for civil liberties.
Can that still happen? Because, you know, you see, even
these people, like they'll be, I'm Anti-Imperialist.
Okay. Why did you give an app's a peep
on John magufuli? Right?
Getting taken out in Tanzania. I didn't you, why didn't you
even utter a peep on that? Right.
So so I saw a leftist mocking his death even yeah, yep, yeah,
he was killing his own people without locking for not locking
down even though they didn't even know when you look at the
numbers, that's not exactly true.
You know what I mean? But like in there, I guess what
I'm saying, is this, can there be?
Can there be like a left after this or does it have to just
swing towards like a populist manner?
Like a more, just populous, man, or maybe a different term or
some? Because I think that term the
left is just like, makes me shiver a little bit now after
these last couple of years. Man, I wish I had thought about
this beforehand. I, well, I got something right
now. So, yeah.
Actually, it's a, it's a hell of a question.
I mean, I actually have been thinking about it constantly.
I talked about it with a lot of friends and, you know, so I
mean, there's like, there's been like to there's been a fork in
the road socially and politically for me with people
where some people adhered to the Covidien narrative.
Turned on me, or give me a called shoulder.
Never said a word to me, never would debate me.
And behaved and some of them did he just behaved and Despicable
ways and then, you know, other people who did talk to me about
it or open about it and I feel like we became closer and the
discussion that we constantly have is, you know, it's based
around your question. And whether there's a place for
us in what is considered the left and there are so many of
these people That I know that they will coalesce somewhere
else and I think they are representative of a brain drain
in the left that the left has become so oppressive and so
hostile to any independent or critical thinking that
complicates the objectives of the like influencers who
dominate it and the followers who just act like a Parrot
Jungle and just repeat. Pete received wisdom without
thinking about it or who can't just like, listen to their
hearts, like the trumpeters on covid.
Or I mean, I don't even know if they're that rompers just like a
lot of just a lot of normies like middle-class normies.
I know like did their own research and realized.
Yeah they're not on board, they can't do that.
It's partly and they need that identity so badly to be in the
left. Those other people I think are
more courageous. More critical more critically
critically Minded and more willing to join forces with the
actual masses, who may not. Uphold all of the not, all of
the same, you know, cultural tendencies that we consider an
enlightened. And, you know, it was actually
impressive or or reassuring to see how much left support there
was or support there was among individual leftist.
I know for the Canadian truckers, they were willing to
overlook the, you know, we're supposed to look down at
patriotism or displays of nationalism or large groups of
White people. And they just overlooked all
that and saw what it was really about and how these people were
actually standing in the way of extremely dangerous agenda,
which is global technocracy, which is, I think a component of
imperialism. So there are so many people who
tell me, they feel politically homeless who are asking this
question. That glad you asked it, you
know, is there a place for is there actually a left and I
don't know. Where they're going to wind up.
There are enough of them to give me some.
Give me some hope, but I just don't really Care if there is a
left or not in the u.s. I wanted to say another thing
which is like with the it's interesting.
Watching a lot of, you know, hardcore, anti-imperialists
react to the Russian intervention in Ukraine.
Yeah. The it kind of reminds it.
It kind of reminds me of their positions.
They've taken on covid and these are all again people who
participate in organized left. Both factions where there's like
a leadership and a line and like there's all these Zoom calls
like they're constantly unzoom calls and you know if you
diverge from the line then you are a pariah a you're kicked
out. Yeah.
And they were so terrified of what Putin did.
I mean, they were shocked and they all feel like so many of
them have to issue these flamboyant denunciations of it
in order to appear in public or Take the reputation.
It doesn't Putin, doesn't care what we think in America.
Obviously, Russia doesn't care. If we can't, we have no power to
affect Russia or Putin. We can only affect our own
government. So what is the point of doing
that? But they're, they're all doing
it and at the same time, they're calling to abolish an end NATO.
So I feel ya arable. I feel horrible about all the
Ukrainian civilians, who have been killed, who will be killed.
It's going to get ugly. I want the war to end now.
But what Putin is doing is getting up and Nate and NATO's
face then giving it the finger. I mean, in smashing it in the
face maybe it's actually going to work out.
Well for NATO I mean that is a debate that needs to be had.
But how did these people think NATO is going to be abolished or
ended a rolled back? Yeah.
Like what's going to happen? That's a suit.
Is it going to be ended through? Zoom meetings and defeats and
podcast? Yeah, I don't think so.
Yeah. We're doing been we're ya hate.
Oh yeah people listen to us and we organized enough college,
students Yayo, see supporters, correct line then we need a
fifteen dollar, minimum wage and Ukraine is what we need.
Yeah. Yeah.
I yes, ask for basic income if
you crave. So it's not about it's not about
support. I support Putin in The, you
know, cheer for the Russian intervention, it's just about
recognizing reality that the future of NATO will be decided
by force whether its military force or financial Force.
That's how this transition is coming about.
And it's funny to just or it's revealing to see people.
Just so unable to stomach that reality who say day in and day
out that NATO needs to be destroyed.
Yeah, well, because there are a lot of there.
Hazard in theory, right? Like it's just like in theory, I
want this to happen in theory. I want this to happen.
However, you know, when it's time to actually make a decision
when it's time to act. Well, I'm just going to do
nothing that I don't know, I didn't watch, but it's on CNN
and that's the thing I did, right?
Like, it's the exact same talking point.
What I've noticed from a lot of leftist is that they are so
scared to even be. I mean, and you you've
encountered this with your covid stuff was like, you know, to
just be associated with anything right wing in the slightest.
Yeah. Like is worse than anything.
It's worse than anything you crane could be doing.
It's worse than anything. It's just if I'm associated with
right-wing, that's it. Which I'm sorry.
That's that's liberalism in my in my point that's you have the
of adopted what the most staunch liberals believe is just being
so scared of the right wing. When in reality, someone like me
I was organizing a union at a company a long time ago, and
there it was, there were right Wingers in it with me, I'm
sorry. Like they're just words like
these were people that realize what was best for them and then,
you know, for me, I go to work tomorrow.
Going to be working with a couple guys.
Have Trump stickers on their truck, it's going to happen and
I'm in California, like it's going to happen, and the fact
that they're so scared to even just like, not even extend an
olive branch, but even just coexist with these people and
just maybe find a little bit of a common ground, is such a red
flag to me that I am kind of just like well you know what?
If there is a left I mean it's just going to be like a, like I
said, it's going to be liberalism with the distortion
pedal that just has like so many cooler and cooler, you know what
I mean? Like that's that's what that
that might be what ends up happening like.
And so, you know, at the end of the day, like I just say, like
man, like make the decision that's best for you, you apply
under. I think most people know what's
best for them. I just think they're scared of
the association that comes with making that decision.
And so, yeah, that's a great point.
I mean, liberalism with the distortion pedal, what we see is
in times of Crisis, whether it's this war or, you know, which
affects right I mean most Americans don't care about it
right now but they'll feel it in terms of higher gas, prices and
food prices. Yeah.
Europe is Europe is fucked. But they the last, the people
who really, I see themselves as left is in a crisis, they
default to the liberal consensus because they're whenever there's
a crisis, there's this fear that the fascists are going to take
over somehow. Yeah, that that that means like
at the end of every election cycle, the Third Party candidate
has to be disappeared. And everybody needs to just vote
for the At that, we hate because the fashion still take over.
So that's the role that fascism plays is is disciplining
domesticating and neutering the left so that it always defaults
to liberalism. And then you just you look at I
mean you also made another good point which is about fiery.
I'll so many of these so many Increasingly.
I see so many people in really involved.
Deeply immersed in left organizing, whose lives are kind
of like a theory. They before the lockdown many
people like the you have this laptop class whose lives were on
lockdown. Yeah, so the lockdown just
formalized their life as it was justified their sedentary kind
of morbid shut in lifestyle and paid them to do it.
So they just we're having the time of their lives.
Yeah, they create a Persona online.
That's very different from the person in real life who's much
more aggressive and bold or may even have a different name and
that's the person they want to be.
But when War crisis comes that Fades away the the simulacra,
the Persona and it just all gets boiled down to the cold hard
reality and it terrifies the shit out of them.
Yeah. So what kind of change can those
kind of people actually effect? That's why I distinguished like
the Socialist have done Bass from the Socialists of light
burning movement is those people get out in the physical world
with rifles and affect the chain, the change, they need to
see which is independent sovereignty fighting for their
for their nation and their families.
That's what like Russell Bentley always talks about.
Russell Bentley, who fought with the Nova Russian army in the
essence of time. Italian.
It's a battalion named for a communist faction called essence
of time, which is a Russian Communist party.
And he said, you know, he was, he would go to these socialist
meetings in the US and it was just a joke to him and, you
know, he found the real socialist reality on the
battlefield there. I'm not saying that's my deal.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but it's a very tall different but it's
their LARP. You know what I mean?
It's like, it's these people are pure.
Yeah, so it's like, you know, do it, if you're going to do it,
like, let me see it. Like, I, I need, I'm not
personally an organizer, but if I see something that I like,
I'll jump on, you know what I mean?
I'll jump on, I'll promote it. We have okay audience, I guess
like we. Well yeah, promote it and stuff,
but I don't see any that, I just see retracting into like a
turtle shell of like lurk liberalism.
Like, on that note I got to ask you guys, what do you think
about the like the Reddit Bros signing up for the Ukrainian
Army going on halfway across the world to?
What do you think about this whole Is that real?
Is that They're living it. Yeah.
Yeah, it's okay sighs. Yeah, it's probably just I've
seen a lot of like, you know, creative but you know, I don't
know what's up with that. But yeah, yeah, I think a lot of
it is like might be fake just to encourage people to ya to sign
up here and you know, maybe they should do it because they
probably won't come back and I don't really want.
Yeah, I don't want them into space.
Yeah, hey just handle that but yeah, I'll be here until yeah
handle that. Go run it at e92.
Tank with handle it. Well, may I really appreciate.
I really appreciate you coming on man.
Like that was I was a really good talk.
I'll talk. Thank you.
Yeah, it was fine. You off that.
You have to come back on some time, let everyone know where
they can find you and find your work.
In case, I'm sure most of our audience knows already, but just
just in case. Well, they can't everybody knows
where to find me except in real life.
So, oh, yeah, that's the point. Just look up my name and you'll
see stuff. You'll see like, my Wikipedia
page is like a cult The collection of insane.
Smears. I'm on.
I'm on Twitter and the gray zone.com.
And, you know, we have a YouTube channel, The Gray Zone just
search The Gray Zone. We have seen really good, good
live streams and oh, ya Rahman. Just look up my name on Rahman.
That's like, we're all the covid related stuff is.
Yeah. And I'm gonna try to have Jeremy
on soon jeremy'll, afraid. Oh, he's late.
He said he's embedded with the u.s. trucker Convoy and I meant,
I meant to mention this. I meant to mention this sounds
weird after talking for an hour and a half.
And I was just, I think I might, I told you Glenn before we were
recording, but I was just on Capitol Hill here in DC, and
there was a giant NYPD bus for prisoners, like a prisoner bus
and NYPD and National Guard in the streets and National Guard
trucks. And like their bulldozers there.
And I Talk to an NYPD officer. I'm going to Tweet out the video
in a second. It was wild.
It was like I felt like I was in New York talking to him.
He was like I said, why are you here?
And he's like what we're here for the state of the union and
the trucka Convoy, it's called The People's Convoy and I said,
are they a national security threat or something?
And he's like, no, basically we're going to they're going to
stop them before they get into the city but we think a few
might break through and slip in. So we're here for that and I was
thinking like okay I thought the people Convoy was going to come
to DC and I have a peaceful protest with like, a few
thousand people at best and then just go away.
But your sounds like you're describing some kind of January
6th, I'll trap. And why is the NYPD and
Washington? D.c. like the whole thing was so
wild. Yeah.
So I definitely am going to, I'm going to talk to Jeremy.
It Rock fan about that hopefully soon.
So check. Check.
Absolutely. Check out my stream and and, and
thanks again. I mean, I found out about your
show. I think I found out about it
through Jeremy and I would make sense.
Yeah. Oh yeah.
I've been listening ever since. I've got a lot of friends into
it. One friend of mine was like I
like these guys they don't do. They're not like all like ironic
all the time like Chapo. Like I don't I've also been
really Earnest like it's like it's not a character.
I hate it, I hate it. But yeah, so that's the I
appreciate it. Thank you for spreading the word
for us. He's at kryptos.
I-i'm at Glen Rockne, the podcast is at rare candy pod
one. If you're here for Max, I hope
you stick around for the other stuff.
Duff and I have to show a sports show, unrelated to this, it's
called Patriot, it's called the back wall, patreon.com slash the
back wall. We watch old sports games and
talk about the time that it took place and all that kind of
stuff. And yeah.
Listen to car crash to shout out to my guys car crash.
Yeah. Alright.
Alright guys, have a good one. Thanks Max.
All right, thanks Max. I appreciate it.
Thanks a