1 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:14,160 Worth the wait podcast Sarah not only does fuck that Guy 2 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:17,240 Summerfest continue in this episode, but we've got some 3 00:00:17,240 --> 00:00:21,360 pretty spicy meaty letters and a very provocative question that 4 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:25,920 you sent me regarding what should a woman do if a man 5 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:29,920 chooses to pay her a student loan instead of getting her an 6 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:32,360 engagement ring. And we kind of I think we're 7 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:34,480 going to come at this from 2:00 to I think we're we're not going 8 00:00:34,480 --> 00:00:37,000 to agree on this. I never know it's so 9 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:40,120 unpredictable at this point. But we're also going to answer 10 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:44,000 some letters about that, that first couple of dates and 11 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:45,800 everything's great. And you think the connection's 12 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:47,320 there. And then out of nowhere, they 13 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:50,280 just pull the rug out from under you and say they're not feeling 14 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:53,320 it or they just ghost entirely. And we're going to talk about 15 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:56,400 why we tend to blame ourselves as women. 16 00:00:56,400 --> 00:01:00,680 How do we prevent that and how this can be sort of a, a micro 17 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:05,360 trauma and, and can trigger old wounds for people and what to do 18 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:09,280 when it happens? We just got done recording the 19 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:12,640 recap for and just like that. And I'm going to let everybody 20 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:15,160 know now. This is one of the best episodes 21 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:17,920 of the series, not of Sex and the City, but of and just like 22 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:19,920 that. And if you're not subscribed to 23 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:24,000 the Patreon, go over and subscribe now because this was a 24 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:26,760 very pivotal episode. I think that's going to resonate 25 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:29,240 with a lot of people, especially if you come from a divorced 26 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:32,040 family. So go to patreon.com/worth the 27 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:37,320 wait show and subscribe. But it's a great episode and I'm 28 00:01:37,320 --> 00:01:39,080 excited. I I really liked it. 29 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:42,000 I liked the episode but I love doing the recap even more it. 30 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:43,520 Was a good episode. It was. 31 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:45,880 Now we have a letter. We have a couple letters. 32 00:01:45,960 --> 00:01:49,960 Actually they do. We do, and I would love for you 33 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:51,040 to read the first one. All right. 34 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:53,440 First one says hello. Kristen and Sarah have a 35 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:57,160 question concerning dating what I imagine to be an avoidant 36 00:01:57,280 --> 00:01:59,560 person. Maybe I should specify I'm 37 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:01,720 looking for a relationship that would be something like 38 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:05,760 consistently casual, open for a bit more if there's mutual 39 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:09,080 desire for it. I'm a busy person with kids, 40 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:12,240 friends, and activities, and I wish to keep my independence 41 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:15,000 while adding some joy and romance into my life. 42 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:17,480 So I'm not looking to live with a partner or anything like that 43 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:21,160 anytime soon or ever. I met a woman on her, a lesbian 44 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:23,760 and queer dating app. Since I came back onto dating 45 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:27,560 apps, it was the first time I felt a bit excited by a profile. 46 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:31,360 She is incredibly beautiful, creative, outgoing, joyful, 47 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:34,040 politically engaged, everything I could hope for. 48 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:37,240 I do feel that I am a bit less interesting than she is. 49 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:40,520 Rapidly and met two days later for a drink after work. 50 00:02:40,640 --> 00:02:43,160 We connected, conversation was easy and fluid. 51 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:45,840 We also both could speak in Spanish which facilitated the 52 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,200 connection I think. So we stayed there for almost 3 53 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:50,120 hours. We had a second date that 54 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:53,400 consisted of a drink, a restaurant, some sexy dancing, 55 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:57,160 almost six hours and we said we would meet next week for 1/3 56 00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:00,600 date and I suggested a movie but we have no actual plans yet. 57 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:04,000 I've noticed that in between dates, which are about two weeks 58 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:07,360 apart, she takes a really long time to respond to my message, 59 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:10,320 anywhere between 24 hours and three days. 60 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:13,120 I'm not a big texter myself, I would feel overwhelmed if 61 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:16,400 somebody texted me every day, but I always respond as soon as 62 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,880 I can and I engage pretty easily in consistent communication. 63 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:22,640 I know that I'm not sending a lot of texts because I always 64 00:03:22,640 --> 00:03:25,760 wait for a response before sending another one and I keep 65 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:28,560 it short, which is a bit of a challenge because I like 66 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:30,520 details. Never ask more than one question 67 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:33,880 at a time, so I don't think I'm overwhelming her when she does 68 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:36,000 respond. Her messages are somewhat 69 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:39,160 detailed so she's not showing a lack of engagement either. 70 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:41,880 It's been a full week of no contact since the last 71 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:44,120 communication where we agreed on a movie date. 72 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:46,800 I kind of knew I should be patient but this feels 73 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,600 triggering to me. I tried not to engage before she 74 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:53,000 did as a way of letting her have space, but also to be honest 75 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:55,320 because of my brew's ego. I wanted to see if she would 76 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:57,840 write me first. I think if she was a this man I 77 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:00,320 would have unmatched and disengaged totally from this 78 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,280 because I don't want to put in more effort than he would. 79 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:06,240 So I wonder how I would communicate with her to make her 80 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:09,400 know that I think about her and I like her so far but without 81 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:13,760 much expectation and without triggering into more avoidance 82 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:15,800 for her. Also, I want to avoid carrying 83 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,640 all the emotional weight of communication in between dates. 84 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:20,800 Still very early on into dating her. 85 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:24,360 But how do I know when to disengage if my needs for a more 86 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:27,000 consistent communication are not that I'm getting? 87 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:29,840 Mixed messages, kind of from both of them, right? 88 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:33,480 Yes. He starts off by saying I'm 89 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:37,960 looking for something casual, something to bring some joy and 90 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:41,680 romance into my already pretty full life, which I am a big 91 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:46,280 advocate of, by the way. And then she meets this person 92 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:51,720 and it doesn't sound like proper boundaries or expectations were 93 00:04:51,840 --> 00:04:53,320 stated. Why do you say that? 94 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:59,800 Because if she wanted something casual, this woman being taking 95 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:04,520 so much time to respond shouldn't come as a surprise to 96 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:08,720 her if they discussed the idea of wanting something casual. 97 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:12,360 OK, OK. It just feels to me as though 98 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:15,880 she thinks she wants something casual, but she meets this 99 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:21,520 person that she really likes. And now, and I'm not saying she 100 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:23,520 doesn't have a right to be bothered that this person's 101 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:27,640 taking three days to respond. That communicates to me, I don't 102 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:29,600 care about you. That's that's right. 103 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:31,240 That's what that communicates to me. 104 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:34,040 So I don't blame her for being bothered by that. 105 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:39,720 However, she's categorizing this as avoidance when I actually 106 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:43,840 think it's indifference, Meaning I don't know that this person 107 00:05:43,840 --> 00:05:48,560 shares her level of interest. Just because she felt this 108 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:51,720 connection doesn't mean that the other person did. 109 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:53,840 And we're going to be talking about this later because this 110 00:05:53,840 --> 00:05:56,800 happens a lot when you go out on these dates and you have this 111 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:01,760 great time and then they pull back and they pull away that 112 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:04,880 affection. That's sort of a, that's a bit 113 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:08,440 of a, of a, of a micro trauma that that we experience. 114 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,160 And depending on what your history is, certain things can 115 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:12,600 be triggered. But we're going to be talking 116 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:14,920 about that later in the episode. We're going to be talking about 117 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:17,880 how to cope when you're going through something like this. 118 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:22,680 She seems very triggered by this woman's lack of engagement. 119 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:25,360 Yeah. I mean, I think that's 120 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:28,480 reasonable. Yes, right, I do. 121 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:32,600 However, I also think that if she truly were looking for 122 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:36,280 something casual, I don't think she'd be bothered. 123 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:40,160 I don't know that she'd be bothered by this person taking 124 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:42,080 24 hours to respond. How? 125 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:44,120 How often is she taking three days? 126 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:47,760 I mean, if that's if that's the norm, then I would say no, no 127 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:49,760 way. But this doesn't sound like 128 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:51,840 somebody who's looking for somebody kiss. 129 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:52,280 OK. And. 130 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:55,320 That's that's my take. So she's not looking for 131 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:57,520 something casual and then the woman she went out with you 132 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:01,280 think is maybe not matching her level of interest or or 133 00:07:01,280 --> 00:07:03,160 definitely not matching her level of interest. 134 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:06,200 Definitely doesn't seem to be matching the level of interest 135 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:09,040 I'm reading this again. Beautiful, creative. 136 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:12,960 We have a second date party. We said we met, plus the dates 137 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:16,120 are two weeks apart. She takes a really long time to 138 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:19,640 respond to my messages. I think there's also this belief 139 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:21,640 that because she's dating a woman, she's not going to be 140 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:25,480 dealing with the same nonsense that straight women who date men 141 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:28,800 or women who date men deal with when if this this sounds like 142 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:31,640 she could have been writing about, you know, a CIS man it. 143 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:33,000 Really does. Right. 144 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:37,080 It really does, yeah. Which, yeah, you want to, you 145 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:40,720 want to think that it's going to be easier with a woman if you're 146 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,360 a woman. But it it sounds like there's a 147 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:45,880 lot of the same issues, same challenges. 148 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:48,760 Maybe her. I just feel as though her 149 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:55,400 expectations weren't realistic and I don't feel as though she 150 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:57,960 communicated what she was looking for. 151 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:03,680 But I also feel as though, and, and I do think this is now or 152 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:06,080 should be a first date conversation. 153 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:08,960 What's your communication style? Are you a texter? 154 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:11,320 Do you prefer to check in every day? 155 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,480 What's what do you prefer? Because this is important. 156 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:17,680 And it's important because of this. 157 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:20,720 It's important because if you're triggered, if you have 158 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:25,520 abandonment issues, the lack of engagement can trigger something 159 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:28,040 with you, then it's really important for you to be with 160 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:30,440 somebody who's not going to keep triggering you. 161 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:34,960 Yeah, which is why I think it's a fair, I think it's a fair 162 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:37,760 question to ask. Or, or may you might even want 163 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:41,159 to work it into a profile of what is your love language, 164 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:44,080 daily text checking in, something like that. 165 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:47,440 Where you again, because this, this communication style is part 166 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:50,640 of compatibility. And I don't think we we often 167 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:54,200 think of it that way, but it is it just doesn't feel to me that 168 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:58,800 anything was discussed or that expectations or boundaries were 169 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:00,440 communicated. What about you? 170 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:01,480 What are you? What are you thinking? 171 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:06,680 I have a hard time imagining that expectations and 172 00:09:06,680 --> 00:09:09,600 communication style wouldn't have come up on either these 173 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,840 marathon dates. And typically we caution against 174 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:16,520 marathon dates, but I think I think it is a different case for 175 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:18,680 women dating women. I just, yeah, I wouldn't, I 176 00:09:18,680 --> 00:09:22,560 wouldn't go on a marathon date as a woman with a CIS man and I 177 00:09:22,560 --> 00:09:24,600 wouldn't recommend either. But I don't think there's 178 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,560 anything wrong with the marathon dates in this case. 179 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:32,000 I just, I just bring it up again to say it seems like you had 180 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:37,960 time to establish some of these expectations and it's it would 181 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:40,520 surprise me if that were not the case. 182 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:44,000 However, she did say that the second day it was a party, 183 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:45,840 right? So maybe they didn't actually 184 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:49,080 talk much at the I have a couple of follow up questions. 185 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:53,240 One is because I haven't used the app, Is it is this truly 186 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:56,240 like phone to phone texting directly? 187 00:09:56,240 --> 00:10:00,840 Or is it possible that the woman in question, the potential 188 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:03,920 avoidance is getting the messages filtered through the 189 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:07,480 app and maybe she only logs into the app every couple of days? 190 00:10:07,560 --> 00:10:11,840 That would be essential to know. Yes, because if that's the case, 191 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:15,360 that too communicates an indifference, because if you've 192 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,320 just met somebody, you've been out twice, you like them, you're 193 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:20,720 not going to want to miss their communications. 194 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:23,920 Well, and probably you're going to suggest, oh, let's take this 195 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:26,440 off the app, right? Let's just begin texting. 196 00:10:26,680 --> 00:10:29,680 Well, we listen. We we say that, right? 197 00:10:29,680 --> 00:10:31,240 We say they probably communicate. 198 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:35,560 I don't think the average person knows to communicate what their 199 00:10:35,560 --> 00:10:37,240 preferred communication style is. 200 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:41,400 I really think women have been told that anything they need in 201 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:46,200 the relationship is too much and so they don't communicate it. 202 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:48,760 We're here to tell you and we're in charge and we make the 203 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:49,680 decisions. Now. 204 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:53,000 You are allowed to communicate what's going to trigger you, 205 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:56,000 what's not going to trigger you whenever the hell you want. 206 00:10:56,240 --> 00:11:01,520 There's no preferred timeline. If this is part of compatibility 207 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:04,160 for you, state it up front. Get it out there. 208 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:06,440 These are the things statements only. 209 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:09,040 Put it out there, you don't have to wait. 210 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:12,040 Right, got the impression in this case that the letter writer 211 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:15,800 was just really being cautious of coming on too strong because 212 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:18,760 she said like, oh, well, she obviously feels like this woman 213 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:20,920 is a catch rate. And she said, I feel like she's 214 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:23,480 more interesting than me. So this must be somebody who's 215 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:27,000 really good on paper, right? And or on dates, right? 216 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:28,960 Right. And that may be why you're not 217 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:31,440 hearing from her, because maybe she's going on a lot of dates. 218 00:11:31,560 --> 00:11:33,040 Right. That's the other thing. 219 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:36,160 It's, it does sound to me like this person might be dating 220 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:38,360 multiple people. But here's the thing. 221 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:42,440 Some people are just really, really good at those first, say, 222 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:44,280 two to five dates. Oh yeah. 223 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:46,040 And then they completely fall off. 224 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:48,640 You know why? Because they never get past 225 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:52,120 those, those five dates. And we, you know, we're, we're 226 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,000 going to address this with, with the other letter as well. 227 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:58,480 But when things go well and then we don't hear from them, what 228 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:02,480 do, what do we do? We wonder, we wonder was it was 229 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,720 it something I did right? And for me when I'm reading this 230 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:09,920 letter and she's saying, well, I only I don't ask more than one 231 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:13,760 question and I only text as a response to her text. 232 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:17,000 I'm not initiating. Why are you shrinking yourself? 233 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:20,560 Why are you? She just seems to be not just 234 00:12:20,560 --> 00:12:24,880 being being cautious, but being almost hyper vigilant over 235 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:26,880 cautious here. Well, I'm glad you. 236 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:28,960 I'm glad you mentioned that because the other thing I wanted 237 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:32,440 to say is you never really know how you're being perceived. 238 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:37,400 So for all we know, this woman might not even like really know 239 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:39,920 you're interested. She might think she's matching 240 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:43,800 your energy if you said casual, she's maybe she's trying to give 241 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:45,640 it to you. But I don't think we should 242 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:52,440 ignore the information we do have, which is this is not 243 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:55,680 making you feel great, right? It's making you doubt yourself. 244 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:59,480 It's making you, you know, re evaluate every step here and 245 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:02,360 it's making you feel like she's a little bit out of your league. 246 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:07,000 So I think, you know, you did technically arrange 1/3 date 247 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:09,400 like you, you had an informal agreement, right? 248 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:12,680 So I think this time bite the bullet, reach out and just be 249 00:13:12,680 --> 00:13:14,760 like, here's what I would like to meet. 250 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:16,560 You know what I mean? Like propose a date. 251 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:18,160 Just be like, are you free Saturday? 252 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:21,160 Let's meet here or there. And then, you know, if she 253 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:24,120 doesn't and give her like a week, I would give it like, you 254 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:27,000 know, I'd give her at least like a work week. 255 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:30,720 Reach out on like a Monday ahead of Saturday, right? 256 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,440 And if she's give? Notice by Thursday. 257 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:35,240 OK. But you're, I want to clarify, 258 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:38,560 you're saying give her a week's notice, yes, regarding plans, 259 00:13:38,560 --> 00:13:40,680 not give her a week to respond? No. 260 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:43,280 Right. No, that is not what I'm saying, 261 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:44,360 right? I'm saying give her a week 262 00:13:44,680 --> 00:13:48,200 notice because that's being respectful of her time and 263 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:50,720 yours, right? But if you don't hear from her 264 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:52,320 by Thursday, move on. Right. 265 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:55,440 And let's not ignore you said the magic word here. 266 00:13:55,560 --> 00:13:58,880 I kind of knew that she would be, that I should be, but this 267 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:03,240 feels triggering for me. That's a very, very important 268 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:05,480 part of this story. And. 269 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:09,760 I feel as though that's the moment, that's the sign where 270 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:13,760 you say, why is this triggering? Because when we're triggered, 271 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:18,440 it's probably it's because it's reminding us of something that 272 00:14:18,560 --> 00:14:22,280 caused us great pain or great anxiety or something. 273 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:24,920 It ain't good, right? That's something to pay 274 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:27,960 attention to. I would be way more focused on 275 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:31,320 why is this triggering to me and how do I work through it. 276 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:36,760 Then how do I make myself as small as possible so as to not 277 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:38,960 push this person away? But like Sarah said, pay 278 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:41,720 attention to how you feel because you're not feeling great 279 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:43,880 here. But could that be remedied by a 280 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:46,920 conversation about communicate preferred communication style? 281 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:49,280 Who knows? You're never going to know until 282 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:50,400 you try. What was? 283 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:54,760 What is it that Seema said? Don't ask, don't ask you. 284 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:56,960 Won't. If you don't ask, you don't get. 285 00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:59,080 Yeah, right. If you don't ask, you don't get 286 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:00,920 my friend. Right, yeah. 287 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:02,520 So I would ask her out again, but. 288 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:05,000 Right. Just see where it goes and then 289 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,120 get that, get that opportunity to get in front of her and have 290 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,400 this conversation. Yeah, You know, the other thing 291 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:14,160 I, I think I would recommend is if this is in your, if the word 292 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:16,920 casual is anywhere in your dating profile, I would go ahead 293 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:18,560 and take it out. I would as well. 294 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:20,800 I would as well. Because it means something 295 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:21,960 different to. Everybody. 296 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:25,000 It's one of those subjective words you really do when you're 297 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:28,960 writing your dating profile, be very careful about what words 298 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:32,560 you use, whether it's active, whether it's casual, whether 299 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:35,160 it's relaxed, whatever it is, these, these adjectives that 300 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:37,120 everybody uses, they're subjective, they have different 301 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:39,280 meanings to everybody. So keep that in mind. 302 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:41,800 All right? I feel as though we're going to 303 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:43,880 be moving on from this. Feel free to follow up. 304 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:46,520 Follow up, please. We love a good follow up me a 305 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:48,400 TikTok. We're not going to play it, but 306 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:50,600 but we're going to. We're going to sum it up. 307 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:53,320 Well, there's what is it kind of nothing to play in this case, 308 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:55,960 right? I just sent, so I sent Kristen a 309 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:59,400 screenshot of a it was a tick tock, but there's some text on 310 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,720 the screen and a random woman sitting behind it. 311 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:06,400 It's a hypothetical question and I'm interested in your take on 312 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:08,680 it, Kristen. So the question is, a man 313 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:13,840 proposes to his woman with a receipt of her $70,000 student 314 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:17,320 loan debt being paid in full. She thanks him, but says she 315 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:19,600 still requires a ring before getting married. 316 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:26,480 Is the woman a reasonable, B ungrateful, C smart, or D dumb? 317 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,440 First and foremost, if he chooses to do that, that is 318 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:31,960 wonderful, but that's on him, number one. 319 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:35,840 But #2 do men not understand why women want engagement rings? 320 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:37,360 I don't know that they thought about it. 321 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:39,320 Do you think they think about it even? 322 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:42,360 Well, that that is the point that that's no, they don't think 323 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:45,040 about it, my dude, that ring is not about you. 324 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:46,520 We're. Not going to say it's not about 325 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:53,080 him at all because remember when Aiden got the yellow gold ring 326 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:55,360 with the marquee diamonds? Yep. 327 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:58,680 And Carrie was, was very upset about it and she was like, Oh my 328 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:02,160 God, does he even know who I am? It's kind of about him and his, 329 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:05,040 his taste level in that, in that way, right? 330 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:10,760 So we use it as a barometer. I mean, I'm surprised that your 331 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:14,119 very first response was like, if you chose to do that, that's on 332 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:15,160 him. Well, it is. 333 00:17:15,319 --> 00:17:16,400 Well, it is. Right. 334 00:17:16,599 --> 00:17:17,560 Don't hold. Don't. 335 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:19,359 Don't make her responsible for that. 336 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:22,839 It's great that you did it, but unless she asked you to do it, I 337 00:17:22,839 --> 00:17:23,400 don't. I don't. 338 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:26,760 Do I want someone paying? I don't know that I would want 339 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:30,400 that because then you're just in you're, you feel indebted to 340 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:32,200 them. I mean, if you choose to feel 341 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:35,320 that way, sure, because as you said, that's on him. 342 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:37,320 You chose to do it, she didn't ask for it. 343 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:38,880 Right. OK. 344 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:42,200 Correct. So that doesn't mean that 345 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:45,080 doesn't mean it's kind of like Sarah when people I would vote 346 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:46,600 on New Year's Eve. It's kind of like when people 347 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:49,160 give me one gift and say it's for both Christmas and New 348 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:52,480 Year's and my birthday. No, I want 2 gifts. 349 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,280 Does that make me unreasonable? I don't think so. 350 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:58,200 I want the day of my birth acknowledged. 351 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:01,960 Sir, if you don't know that she wanted a ring, I don't. 352 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:05,200 I don't know what to. That's You're showing her that 353 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:08,000 you didn't know that the ring was important, right? 354 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:09,960 Am I now? Am I the drama? 355 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:13,000 I don't think I'm the drama. So what do you think she's 356 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:16,000 being? Well, initially I was like, I, I 357 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:22,480 don't know many people with a $70,000 or more engagement ring. 358 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:25,040 That's, that's quite a lot of money to spend on, on a ring, 359 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:28,840 even a set, right. So I was like, well, that's, you 360 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:31,440 know, he's, he's frankly done enough. 361 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:36,440 But then half a second later I was like, on the other hand, he 362 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:38,240 already did it, it's already paid right? 363 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:41,560 It's not like he can get a refund so she might as well ask 364 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:43,160 for a ring while she's at it. Right. 365 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:47,520 But also, Sir, just why didn't you just pay 60,000 and get her 366 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:49,920 a ring? I'm sure she would be just as 367 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:55,080 overjoyed and relieved at that. If you're going to spend 70, if 368 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:56,720 you have that kind of money to spend. 369 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:58,920 That's the other thing, right? Right. 370 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,480 If he just wrote that check or made that payment in one go, 371 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:04,480 like, yeah, why are we not getting a ring? 372 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:06,640 What are we doing? Of course you should get a ring. 373 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:08,800 Right. And, and I think it really does 374 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:12,840 come down to what does she want? If she if you know that she 375 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:16,200 always wanted a ring then, and you just chose not to do the 376 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:19,440 thing you knew she wanted, well Sir, you're an asshole. 377 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:22,960 You know, Speaking of that, I think you could also argue that 378 00:19:23,120 --> 00:19:27,600 he did that for him, right? Yes, Bill, of course you do that 379 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:29,720 for him. Wasn't early for her. 380 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:33,920 I think if he knew she wanted a ring, he should have gotten her 381 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:37,880 a ring and paid her loan. If you have that kind of money 382 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:39,440 and you knew she wanted a ring, first of all, if you have that 383 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:41,400 kind of money, then you have an extra 10,000 to get a ring. 384 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:45,360 Which can get a very nice ring correct, a set even. 385 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:48,960 Correct, Yes. So it all depends on what the 386 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:51,440 woman wanted because not a lot of women want engagement rings. 387 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:53,400 Right. And, and I was, you know, the 388 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:56,680 other thing is like a lot of women end up upgrading anyway. 389 00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:59,240 Right. Right, So like right, she can 390 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:04,240 always get a quote UN quote better ring later, right, If she 391 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:07,000 wants to or you know, add a band or whatever. 392 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:11,040 Right. But yeah, the point is she, she 393 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:14,400 wants it for this milestone. And it seems to me like, you 394 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,480 know, the framing of this question, like is it seems like 395 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:21,080 he's trying to use this as leverage to not get a ring, 396 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:24,760 almost like he wants to see if he can get away with that like 397 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:26,600 he wants. It's like seems like he wants 398 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:28,880 her to feel indebted or like she's. 399 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:33,920 That's what I'm saying for this. That's what I'm saying, right? 400 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:39,200 It's I don't feel that it's the act of generosity or love that 401 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:42,560 people think it is. I tend to think there's more 402 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:44,840 behind. It it's a test, it's a test 403 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:46,880 manipulation. It sure is. 404 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:48,960 It is. It's I want to see how she's 405 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:50,360 going to react. Is she still going to want to 406 00:20:50,360 --> 00:20:51,240 ring? Yes. 407 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:52,200 And it's. And don't try to. 408 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:56,040 Yeah, it seems like the beginning of like seeing how 409 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:59,120 else we can disappoint her. Right, right. 410 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:01,720 Yes, she is going. To hold this over her forever. 411 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:05,960 But it's it is, it's that test. And here's the thing. 412 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:09,200 If she wants a ring, OK, and I want the ring. 413 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:13,920 Don't make her feel bad because you chose to do something that 414 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:18,000 she didn't ask you to do and you decided, well, this is more 415 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,880 important than what I knew she wanted. 416 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,680 You're making that decision for her. 417 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:27,320 No, we don't do that anymore. Especially Sir, if you're on 418 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:28,840 that, you're about to get married. 419 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,920 You've got $70,000. You're not talking about it with 420 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:33,480 her, but what you're going to do with that money. 421 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,840 Here's what I'm going to do with this, this extra cash that I 422 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,040 have. Is that a sign of things to come 423 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:41,400 that you're going to take money out of the account and just 424 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,960 decide what to do with it and decide where it should go and 425 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:46,640 why it's better to do it here or there? 426 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:48,280 That's kind. Of what I mean about like, this 427 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:51,160 feels like the beginning of a series of tests, right? 428 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,040 How else he can disappoint her? Yeah. 429 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:55,440 Right. And I think we might be digging, 430 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,480 you know, we analyze things, I think, a little bit deeper. 431 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:01,800 I don't think we're going too deep here. 432 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:04,400 No, I don't think we are either. I don't think we are either, but 433 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:06,440 some people might. But I thought it was a really 434 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:12,160 thought provoking question because it it's encouraged a 435 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:15,640 bigger discussion of, well, what what's behind it and what's 436 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,920 going to be expected of her and why can't she have needs and why 437 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:20,680 can't she want a ring? Right? 438 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,280 He's deciding for her, for her. What's more important. 439 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:25,960 No, I'm not OK with it. So what was your answer? 440 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:28,320 Do you think she's being irrational or reasonable or? 441 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,720 Well, like I said, you know, the money's already spent, so she 442 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,320 might as well ask for the ring. But also, I think, you know, 443 00:22:33,360 --> 00:22:36,800 like I said, he's obviously if he has a spare 70,000, he has a 444 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:40,280 spare 5 or 10,000, right? Yes. 445 00:22:41,360 --> 00:22:46,120 And yeah, it would be important for me to know that he did this 446 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:50,520 because he wanted to and not as some sort of introductory test, 447 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,400 which is going to be like a series of like ensuring that I 448 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:55,960 never push back. So right. 449 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:58,080 Yeah, I think. It's done to silence her, I 450 00:22:58,120 --> 00:22:59,680 think, to control her. For sure. 451 00:23:00,120 --> 00:23:01,680 That's my personal opinion. I think so. 452 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:05,640 So fuck that guy and let's move on to the next letter. 453 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:09,000 OK, so goes we'd love your thoughts on a dating conundrum. 454 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:11,040 Why didn't I drop off after that? 455 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:13,720 Appeared to go very well and went on a date this weekend 456 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,520 where I felt totally comfortable and had fun and went into it 457 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:19,680 with low expectations and was surprised honestly at how great 458 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,120 of a time we had. We were laughing the whole time, 459 00:23:22,120 --> 00:23:26,600 hung out for six hours and were physically affectionate and 460 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:28,720 kissed at the end. They gave the guy my number at 461 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,800 the end and left completely confident about how it had gone. 462 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:35,200 He texted me later that evening thanking me for a great time and 463 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:36,440 said he had a great time connecting. 464 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,880 I asked if he was interested in hanging out again and he sends 465 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:43,760 me this long text which was honestly sweet, about how he 466 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,800 wasn't as ready to date as he thought he was and that he 467 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,200 didn't quite feel the connection that he would need to feel to 468 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,280 move forward romantically. Am I delusional for being 469 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:56,520 confused by how affectionate he was and how much we seem to vibe 470 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:58,720 on the date? Taking the rejection in stride, 471 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:00,520 but I am feeling a bit of whiplash. 472 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,880 This is the emotional whiplash we were we were talking about 473 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:07,440 earlier in the episode. And so this is very common, 474 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:09,320 right? It is, and it's can be very, 475 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:13,760 very confusing, but it can also be very triggering, right? 476 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,760 There's sort of 22 levels to this. 477 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:20,480 Her confusion is totally normal. Yeah, very understandable. 478 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,600 But what ends up happening for a lot of people is they 479 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:26,600 internalize it. They start questioning 480 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,440 themselves. It alters their perception of 481 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,280 reality. And it's sort of, it kind of 482 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,840 tears open a wound. So why do people do this? 483 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,240 I, what I'm, what I think is interesting is he went through 484 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,960 all the motions and then then he tells her, you know what? 485 00:24:42,120 --> 00:24:44,600 I don't think I'm as ready to date as I thought it was. 486 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,920 And I didn't feel the connection I would need to move forward. 487 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,400 Well, how would you know that? Because you're not ready to 488 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:52,480 date. Those are two kind of those 489 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,960 don't align right. First you're saying I'm not in 490 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,200 the right headspace, but then you're saying, well, I, I know 491 00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:58,640 how I should feel. I'm not feeling it. 492 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,560 That to me, that to me is incongruous. 493 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:06,920 And, and I think the main, I think the real reason was I'm 494 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:08,960 just not feeling what I need to feel to move forward. 495 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:14,160 So, so then why did he do it? Because he doesn't attach as 496 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,120 much significance to this behavior as you do. 497 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,680 I mean, I feel like the key thing to always remember about 498 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,480 men is they will continue to take from you as long as you 499 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:28,680 continue to give. 100. Percent, they will not stop out 500 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,240 of decency or consideration. Or empathy. 501 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:38,440 Whatever you offer so well, it really does not indicate at all 502 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,240 how they feel. If they have sex with you, if 503 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:43,720 they hold your hand, if they hold the door for you, if they 504 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:45,680 laugh at your jokes, they make you laugh. 505 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:47,960 Doesn't tell you anything about how he's feeling. 506 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,320 Other than like what? He's a good conversationalist 507 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:52,680 and a good date. You know what tells you whether 508 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:54,240 or not they truly care about you? 509 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:56,960 Do they put your needs above theirs? 510 00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,000 That's how you know. Yeah, yeah. 511 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,280 That's that's the real, that's the real sign. 512 00:26:01,360 --> 00:26:04,800 Yeah, foreign actions in my. Right, the actions, but not just 513 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,840 actions like, oh, he plans the dates and he buys me that. 514 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:11,880 No. Does he make himself 515 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:16,000 uncomfortable to make you comfortable? 516 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:17,960 Right. Well, I mean, I think that 517 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:19,960 happens eventually. I don't know that that's 518 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:23,480 reasonable to expect on a first or second date, which is why 519 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,760 it's so important to not have these marathon dates. 520 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:30,720 Listen, this is the thing about the marathon dates, is that the 521 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,800 tricky part here is the brain chemistry. 522 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,640 It alters everything. Yep, it does. 523 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,280 That oxytocin, you're going to start being more trusting than 524 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:42,480 you should be. You're going to start seeing 525 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,280 more of a connection. That's then what is probably 526 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:50,600 there and you're going to form a bond, which makes sense because 527 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:54,160 what typically happens on those six hour dates, They start 528 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,480 becoming very emotionally vulnerable and emotionally 529 00:26:57,480 --> 00:26:59,360 intimate. I mean, yeah, eventually you're 530 00:26:59,360 --> 00:27:01,240 going to talk about something real, right? 531 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,200 Right, because you're going to start sharing experiences and 532 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,320 you're going to start feeling closer and you're going to start 533 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:08,840 telling yourself, well, they must really feel comfortable 534 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:10,400 with me if they're telling me these things. 535 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:14,480 And that's going to contribute to this idea of wow, they must 536 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,480 really like me. They must really feel safe with 537 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:17,840 me. Right. 538 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:19,800 I was going to say. And then after the fact you're 539 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,080 going to convince yourself that like, oh, that's like the 540 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,800 equivalent of three days. We just zoomed out. 541 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,280 Right, right. Yeah, exactly. 542 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,080 Nope, there's there's no shortcuts here. 543 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:32,560 No, now I want to talk to the people who when they find 544 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:37,160 themselves in this situation, they have an extreme reaction, 545 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:39,720 right? I brought it up earlier to many 546 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:43,640 people who have any kind of history of trauma or who have, 547 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:47,720 and this is very important, who have dealt with relationships 548 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:51,160 where things were very emotionally inconsistent, this 549 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,040 kind of you're being led on essentially. 550 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,880 And so when this happens, you know, every, everything's going 551 00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:58,680 great, your nervous system's regulated. 552 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,560 And then when this happens, your nervous system becomes 553 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,920 dysregulated. And when that starts, that's 554 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:09,040 when you start having all of the, you sort of go into fight 555 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,880 or flight because, because remember, your, your brain only 556 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,680 knows what you're feeling it it doesn't know the context of the 557 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,480 situation. So when you feel this great 558 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:23,320 disappointment, your brain goes, uh oh, this is bad. 559 00:28:24,360 --> 00:28:27,720 That's when PTSD kicks in or kicks in. 560 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:33,240 And that's when when your your brain starts to think, oh, oh, 561 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:34,960 boy, we're not, we're not safe. Yeah. 562 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:36,720 And. Dredges up all this old stuff. 563 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:38,720 Right. It dredges up all that old 564 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:39,680 stuff. This. 565 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,920 It completely disorients your sense of reality and it makes 566 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:44,600 you go. Was that in my head? 567 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,240 Like, and then you start feeling stupid. 568 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:48,760 Did I just imagine that? Oh, my God, I can't believe I 569 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,280 told them that. Oh my God, I'm so stupid. 570 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:53,240 Yeah. Because as women, we're we're 571 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,360 just conditioned to always just blame ourselves for sure. 572 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,200 And if you right, and if you have any kind of attachment 573 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:03,840 wound, that that sudden detachment, that sudden 574 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:07,000 abandonment can be really traumatizing. 575 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,720 Yeah. And, you know, there's this kind 576 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:14,520 of potentially, did you really even have informed consent to be 577 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:18,280 emotionally intimate? And we really should prioritize 578 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,120 emotional intimacy up there with physical intimacy? 579 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:24,680 And did this person misrepresent themselves to get you to open 580 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:25,560 up? Do you think so? 581 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,400 Do I think so in this situation or do I think emotional intimacy 582 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,360 is is should be on the? Same happen in this situation. 583 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:33,760 I don't know. We don't know enough. 584 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:37,360 We know how she felt. We know it was a six hour date, 585 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,960 so I'm assuming, I'm assuming this guy really, you know what 586 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:42,800 this sounds like to me. It sounds to me like someone 587 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,360 fresh off a breakup or recent breakup just started dating 588 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:50,240 again and was really just wanted to be out with a woman and 589 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,560 potentially get laid. And that didn't happen. 590 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:56,400 And so right, so that's. The vibe I got as well. 591 00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:58,720 Right. And so in a case like that, 592 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:02,080 yeah. Do I think that that they they 593 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,160 were, they were emotionally intimate without informed 594 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:05,120 consent? Yeah. 595 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:07,440 In a situation like that where they're telling somebody they're 596 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:09,520 looking for a relationship when they know they're not. 597 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:12,680 And even even if they didn't know, even if they didn't know, 598 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,760 if you behave one way and then after the fact you go, oh, oh, 599 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:18,520 oh, oh, I don't really feel that way. 600 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,440 No, this is what we need to be responsible. 601 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:23,760 We need to be responsible to our actions and we need to be 602 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:25,440 considerate. And this is the problem that we 603 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,680 have with women. We not say things like, I just 604 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:30,320 don't want to, I don't want to lead them on. 605 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,640 We think that way. Men don't. 606 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:34,640 They don't. Yeah, no, they really need to. 607 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,040 I mean, for like, for men, the worst thing they can imagine is 608 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:41,160 being uncomfortable, which is part of why they do this too. 609 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:46,040 Like they probably a part of him was like maybe we'll have sex if 610 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,040 I just wait this out. Right. 611 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,200 Isn't that the point of the marathon date in the 1st? 612 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:54,800 Place but then also he probably was like, you know, 613 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:59,120 subconsciously or on one level thinking it's it's going to be 614 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,080 easier to do this later than in person. 615 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:02,960 I'm going to just roll with this for now. 616 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:06,240 It's pleasant enough. I'm having an OK time and we 617 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,360 might have sex. Right, agreed. 618 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,400 Now the question is what? What can you do when this 619 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,000 happens, right? I think we have totally 620 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:15,840 different takes on this, you and I. 621 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,280 Well, we're going to talk about this in two ways. 622 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,120 We're going to talk about this as the person who this isn't 623 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,000 sort of triggering for, and then we're going to talk about it for 624 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:25,920 the person that it is triggering for. 625 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,800 And in the first situation for the person that's not 626 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,560 triggering. For me this is a block and 627 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:34,440 delete situation. Well, I would say it's 628 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,440 definitely shitty behavior, but it's also part of dating. 629 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,600 It's just, it is, you're just going to have this and, and 630 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:44,200 furthermore, I would say you're going to do this at some point, 631 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:46,320 right? Except when you do this, it'll 632 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,960 be because it feels less safe for you as a woman to leave in 633 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,440 the middle of the date, right? You won't be like, maybe we'll 634 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,520 have sex, right? You'll just, you'll just be 635 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,160 thinking it's going to be more comfortable to do this over 636 00:31:58,160 --> 00:31:59,000 text. Right. 637 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:00,920 So you're going. To do this too, it's just part 638 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:04,760 of the correct but that doesn't negate the fact that it it makes 639 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:08,480 you feel like you're losing your grip on reality right you start 640 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:09,920 to really question whether you're. 641 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,120 Right. And that is, that's the shared 642 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:14,440 reaction, yes, between the two, right? 643 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,560 That's the shared reaction of wait, was this in my head, 644 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:18,720 right? Did I? 645 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:22,440 And in some cases, I wouldn't say it's in your head, it's that 646 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:24,400 your brain chemistry has conveyed convinced you of 647 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,640 something that wasn't wasn't accurate. 648 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:30,040 Or maybe, for whatever reason, you wanted to believe, right? 649 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,840 Right. In both situations, the initial 650 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:38,120 reaction should be to say to yourself, listen, it felt real 651 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,360 to me and that's what matters. Whether or not it felt real to 652 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:46,080 him, OK, it felt real to me. And don't pass judgment on it 653 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:50,160 for sort of, you know, getting not invested but hoping. 654 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,960 For getting fooled. Don't think, oh, I got fooled. 655 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,560 Whether you did or didn't what you reframe it and say, well, it 656 00:32:57,560 --> 00:32:59,920 felt real to me. And the reason you're doing that 657 00:32:59,920 --> 00:33:04,320 is so that you don't start going down the shame spiral, right? 658 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:06,440 You, you don't want to. Oh my God, I was so this and why 659 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:10,040 did I you don't want to do that because that's just going to 660 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,720 that's that's not going to lead to a good place. 661 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:18,720 And you need to maybe start rebuilding trust within yourself 662 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:22,360 in terms of your instincts, because in situations like this, 663 00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:26,880 I, I don't think this is AI, didn't my instincts were wrong 664 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,240 or my intuition. Oh no, there were no reflex. 665 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:31,240 Right, right, right. Exactly. 666 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:33,480 You believed it because he wanted you to believe it. 667 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:35,800 That's that's the thing to remember. 668 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,120 You believed it because he wanted you to believe it. 669 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:41,320 And that's why it's so important to validate your own experience. 670 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:43,560 And like I said, it was real to me. 671 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:48,720 And then you want to reframe this as this is about them. 672 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:52,080 It's not about me. Because as women, we tend to 673 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,520 internalize and blame ourselves and we start focusing on 674 00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:57,360 ourselves. And we sit there and we try to 675 00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,480 pinpoint, well, what did I do wrong and what happened? 676 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:00,920 Did I miss a sign? Did you? 677 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:04,720 Probably not right? This is how women react to it. 678 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:08,920 Most men do not a lot of men they get, they get angry and 679 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,159 they'll, they'll take men, they're not going to do the 680 00:34:11,159 --> 00:34:12,960 introspection. We're just going to take it out 681 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,040 on you, whereas we take it on ourselves. 682 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,120 So try not to do that, right? Try not to do that. 683 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:22,120 Try to reframe it as this is, this is a them problem. 684 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,320 This is not a me problem because I didn't do anything wrong and 685 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:29,960 just try and this is so hard. Try not to personalize it. 686 00:34:30,199 --> 00:34:33,480 You know, a lot of people like in this letter, they think 687 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:35,000 they're ready to date, but they're not. 688 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,560 They think they're over somebody, but they're not right? 689 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:40,639 They, they think they're ready for a relationship, but they're 690 00:34:40,639 --> 00:34:42,199 not, they're not emotionally available. 691 00:34:42,199 --> 00:34:46,360 They, they have listen, self-awareness is not common in 692 00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:47,960 men. It's really not. 693 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:51,320 They're not, they don't, they're not encouraged to be self aware 694 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:56,639 that they, they socialized to what's the word I'm looking for? 695 00:34:56,639 --> 00:35:00,480 They're not socialized to care how their their behavior effects 696 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:01,080 other people. Right. 697 00:35:01,240 --> 00:35:06,160 No, not at all. Right, whereas we are so just 698 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:08,400 reframe it, try not to personalize it. 699 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,400 Make sure to validate your experience, reconnect with your 700 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,720 body, right? Because that nervous system 701 00:35:13,720 --> 00:35:17,320 dysregulation can throw you out of whack a little bit and that 702 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,600 you can do a grounding exercise, you can write in a journal. 703 00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:24,360 And again, I know I keep saying this, I really love journaling. 704 00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:28,400 I've really gotten so much help and healing from journaling. 705 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:31,520 That's a great way to reconnect to yourself. 706 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:36,800 So try that. And I would also put A and also 707 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,680 put a sign up somewhere that says fuck that guy and look at 708 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:43,640 it and say it out loud. I know that sounds hokey. 709 00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,040 Fuck that guy. I know how I felt. 710 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:47,440 I know I didn't do anything wrong. 711 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:52,640 I know right now I'm not feeling guilty or feeling bad that I 712 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:54,840 could have hurt somebody. I didn't potentially hurt 713 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,720 somebody. That's how you, we must reframe 714 00:35:57,720 --> 00:36:01,120 it because we're so quick to blame ourselves immediately 715 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:03,000 reframe it. This isn't about me, this is 716 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:04,920 about them. I didn't do anything to hurt 717 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:06,800 anybody. I didn't do anything to confuse 718 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:08,600 anybody. I didn't give any mixed signals. 719 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:11,600 I did the right thing and I was I was the right, I was a good 720 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,480 person here. Reframe it so that you don't 721 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,480 start personalizing it and going down the rabbit. 722 00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:21,760 What are the? Practical like preventative 723 00:36:22,240 --> 00:36:25,960 measure for next time to just yeah, just try to avoid these 724 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:29,680 marathon dates like please. You don't necessarily have to 725 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:32,640 double book yourself for the evening, but he should think 726 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:33,640 you. Are yeah doctor that either. 727 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:37,720 No, I'm not saying schedule 2 dates, but like maybe make plans 728 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:41,280 with friends afterward or or just, you know, act as if you 729 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:43,920 have somewhere to be after because you need to give 730 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:46,840 yourself a time limit. Right, but also when you get 731 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:48,600 home, have something to do when you get home. 732 00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:51,200 Exactly. To re channel, start reading a 733 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:52,960 book you don't even. Have to go home, that's what I'm 734 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:53,960 saying. Right. 735 00:36:54,240 --> 00:36:58,320 But if you do read a book, watch a movie, do something else that 736 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:02,400 so you can create that mental space between yourself and that 737 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,640 date and so that the oxytocin and all of that stuff can all 738 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:07,440 those brain chemicals can normalize. 739 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:11,520 And then you can look at it with fresh eyes and say, OK, we had a 740 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,080 great time. They might call me again or they 741 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:17,360 might text me again, but there's a real chance that they won't. 742 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,320 And either way, I'm OK. Well, I like that. 743 00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,040 Either way, I'm OK. I'm going to put that on a mug 744 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:24,600 too. Right next to the fuck that guy 745 00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:25,880 won. So that's I. 746 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,480 I can't stress. The reframing is so important 747 00:37:28,720 --> 00:37:29,960 and fuck that guy. Indeed. 748 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,600 Sarah, any final thoughts? No, this is a good one. 749 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:34,040 I think this was. This was like. 750 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:37,080 It's hard for everybody to date. I guess it's the take away, you 751 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:40,400 know, Dating men, dating women, they're all going to behave 752 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,160 badly sometime and so are you. All right, make sure you're 753 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,600 following us on Worth the Wait Show on Instagram, YouTube, and 754 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:48,360 TikTok. If you want to send in your 755 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,200 dating questions, send them to hello@datologycoach.com or just 756 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:54,400 go to datologycoach.com to submit the question. 757 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,800 If you want not just our recaps on and just like that, but 758 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,880 advice or feedback that we think is maybe a little too spicy for 759 00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:05,480 the public feed, go to patreon.com/worth the Wait Show 760 00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:07,440 and subscribe. And remember, you can listen to 761 00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:12,800 the podcast on YouTube, Spotify, iTunes, Amazon Music, Overcast, 762 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:16,760 and please, please, please rate US five stars on Spotify. 763 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:20,680 Bog witches, warlocks. They value your time, Decenter 764 00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:24,520 men, and center yourself. And happy Pride month. 765 00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:26,560 There's a few days left, right? Happy. 766 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:27,520 Pride month? How? 767 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:29,560 How did we not remember that? Happy pride month? 768 00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:31,040 OK, goodbye.