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ready? Yeah, do do you want to read it
or do you want me to read? It Why don't you read it?
So this is something I saw this week on Slate.
It's a fresh one from January 28th.
OK, so the headline is help exclamation points.
I've tried everything to find a woman who will date me, but it's
impossible for a guy like me. OK, now here's here's the letter
itself. Dear Kristen and Sarah, I was
married for 12 years and we have a daughter.
There is a 10 year age difference and I was surprised
when she, my roommate at the time, first came on to me.
I was equally surprised when she ended the marriage with You've
been a good husband and a good father but you got old, your
hair fell out and I've met someone else and that was 20
years ago now. I'm an incel.
Not the nasty embittered woman hating type, but just an
ordinary guy who likes women and can't find a romantic partner.
I have women friends who are partnered who are gay or
intentionally single or looking for a man but are not interested
in me due to the age gap. I'm in a few sporting and
leisure groups. Same deal there.
I live in a small town and the one woman aware of my situation
told me there are single women around here.
I don't meet them. I asked 1 married friend if she
knew knew any single women and she laughed saying yes but I
wouldn't inflict them on you. Which made me wonder if she
really meant it the other way around.
Reasonable and self aware. I'm on a couple of dating
websites and I have had two relationships through them, one
lasting 2 years and the other 18 months.
Both ended with me being unexpectedly dumped by text with
no reason given, and one ordered me not to contact her again and
when I asked the other one about the breakup, she texted me
saying that I'm a bully and a control freak.
I've never before experienced any accusation like that, not
even during that relationship, and never from my ex-wife or
friends, family, workmates, or anyone else.
I know that I lack the emotional intelligence to read signs,
given that most of the time it's the man who suggests going to
bed. And before my marriage, I always
got one of two responses, either whatever made you think I'd be
interested in you, or the more welcome but equally surprising,
what took you so long? In those days, I was often put
in the friend zone. The other dozens of approaches
that I've made on dating sites have been rejected.
About half of the women ignore my e-mail.
The rest give a reason, like, you seem like a nice,
interesting guy, but I don't want to take things further.
If they don't want a nice, interesting guy, what do they
want? I'm keen to learn, but I know
better than to ask. A work colleague in the same
situation as me said that women see us as effeminate and not
real men. I suspect that being bald
doesn't help. My adult daughter, while
sympathetic, says that I'm just another example of nice guys
finishing last. I get the gist of that.
But like all of us, I know plenty of nice guys who actually
have lovely women partners. So where do I go from here?
Signed signed Bo ho ho. Well Bo ho ho.
Now I am an incel. And first of all, why would you
self identify as an incel? I don't know why you would.
I don't know why anybody would do that.
Not the nasty embittered woman hating type, but an ordinary guy
who likes women but can't find a romantic partner.
So involuntary Sullivan, I have women friends who are partnered,
gay, intentionally single or looking for a man but are not
interested in me due to an age gap.
Bam, there's your answer, Sir. Right, like have you tried
pursuing women your. Age, right?
Have you? Tried pursuing women.
Your age. That's the.
That's the answer. That's the answer.
Well. Well, that's part of it.
That's part of the answer. So I mean, there's so many more
though. So there's so many more problems
other than there are. There's unknowingness to speak
to women who's on age, as far as I could tell.
Wait a minute, hold on. I'm on a couple of dating
websites and I've had two relationships through them, one
lasting 2 years, the other 18 months.
Both ended with me being unexpectedly dumped by text with
no reason given. One ordered me not to contact
her again. Ordered like.
Restraining order. Or just told you not to contact
her again and when I asked the other one she texted me saying I
am a bully and a control freak. Yeah, I mean, I can kind of see
that and and here's why like this this whole like wanted to
follow up and know why thing like what, why you're dumping
me, what I do wrong? How can I prove out this next
time? Like it's it's it's very off
putting. It is.
Like no one, it's like
especially women, right? Like they really don't want to
have a blunt conversation with a man about the the real reasons
that, that, that we're dumping him, right?
I mean, men react to most feelings with violence.
So that's very uncomfortable. Like even if you know he's never
exhibited any violent tendencies, like let's go back
to self identifying as an insult because I don't think he's
incorrect. I think he is firmly in the
danger zone of being radicalized as he's already got another man
in his ear. Like over to Effeminate women
don't respect us. Right.
Get out of here with that. Like the best thing.
I mean, for any men who happen to be listening, like truly the
best thing you could do for yourself in terms of like,
success with women is just like, cut all those dudes off.
They are not helping you. They're not giving you any good
advice. Please, please stop listening to
other men, especially men in these.
Streets Podcasts. Any man with a microphone you
should not listen to, Sir. Right, Right.
Yeah. There's just, I mean, just a lot
of like, really poisonous rhetoric.
Right. Right.
What? Wait a minute.
What elsewhere else did he go? The other dozens of approaches
I've made on dating sites have been rejected.
That's online dating, Sir. Correct.
That's just online dating. What also says he had a
relationship for what, 18 months?
And in two, in two years, yeah, so.
He's So you've been successful, right Dating?
Right. Right now, now back to the
reason I I'm saying like I don't.
I don't think it's entirely inaccurate for him to self
identify as an insult because the biggest alarm ringing in my
head right now is how clearly entitled he feels to women's
attention and time. Right.
You're simply not right. You're not older relationship,
you're not full stop. That's it.
Right. About half the women ignore the
e-mail. Correct?
As they should. The rest give a reason.
You seem like a nice, interesting guy, but I don't
want to take things further. Is that after a first date?
I don't know. Are they just responding to your
message and saying that to you? Because I don't think they are.
And you know why I don't think they are, Sir.
Because women are afraid of rejecting men because men get
angry. So I don't think you're getting
these kinds of responses. I don't.
I think you're making this up. If they don't want a nice
interesting guy, what do they want?
I'm so tired of this. Too, But.
Women don't want nice guys. Yeah, we do.
We do. We do.
You just think you're a nice guy.
You're not. You're not.
You're a man who feels entitled to our time and our bodies.
You're a man who purports to be a friend, Someone who is
emotionally intelligent and supportive.
But you're only doing that as Sarah says, thinking that if you
put in enough, nice sex will come out.
Yeah. And then when it doesn't, you
turn on us. Right.
I mean, if you're so nice, why don't you have female friends
that you're not attracted? To right, right.
We know that he is because he he's already slept like but they
won't date me because right. I think he does mention like he
has some friends who are are lesbians which.
Yes, he does. He says he has some gay friends,
which I don't know. I mean, great, that's that's
certainly helping broaden your worldview, right?
But like, man, stop hanging out with other insults and like
really just stop feeling entitled to women because
because you're just not a relationship is this is not
something men are entitled to. They're really having a hard
time with that. Yeah, but now let's go back to
this doozy. A work colleague in the same
situation as mine said women see us as effeminate and not real
men. I suspect being bald doesn't
help. Incorrect, Sir.
Women love bald men, what are you talking about?
It's certainly not the thing. It's not the thing.
It's not it's not the thing that you think it is.
My adult daughter, while sympathetic, says I'm just
another example of nice guys finish last.
I get the gist of that. But like all of us, I know
plenty of nice guys with lovely women partners.
Where do I go from here? You start.
You start by by no longer whining.
I think I have a different starting point I would
recommend. OK.
All right. I I would say this that this guy
who who needs to start by understanding his own neuro
divergent. Oh, OK.
Because I'm, I'm just picking up a vibe here, right?
Like he's, he's trying to make dating more mathematical than it
is, right? If, if I do this, I get this
outcome, right? And he's very clearly like
keeping score. He's looking for a formula,
right? How much nice do I have to put
in for sex to come out right, right.
But the like that that way of thinking that that pattern of
thinking is is causing women to pick up on a vibe of misogyny,
which I also think like is there, but is separate from the
the the neurodivergence. They're just not, you know,
we're we're just in a dangerous place right now.
Like this. This whole thing could go very,
very in cell. Careful.
So I mean, yeah, I, I don't know if he realizes he's on the
spectrum. I'm pretty sure he is.
And I think that him discovering that he is figuring out how that
impacts his communication could be really helpful and could help
him, you know, actually understand like.
How interesting. What kind of vibes he's putting
out? I can, I can, I can see that.
And now that now that you bring it up and and I go back like
that's interesting pattern recognition.
On my part or on his? On yours, on yours without.
You. Know thinking that there's some
sort of equation and then trying to make the equation fit.
OK. He doesn't, yeah.
He doesn't understand that he's just not going to be for
everybody. Right.
And, and it, what's happening is, you know, he, he wants it so
badly that it's, it's coming across as entitled.
Why don't I have this right? And like, that's the part that's
off putting, right? So, you know, if you talk to an
incel, he's going to give you terrible advice.
Like, oh, women could just smell the desperation on you.
They think you're too effeminate.
Like you got to be disrespectful and mean to them.
That's not it. That's not it at all, man.
Nope. But you do have to be self aware
about, you know, your expectations and how they may be
perceived. Yes, yes.
And listen this line women see us as a feminine and not real
men that is in cell rhetoric that is online chatter.
When he says I'm talking to another friend like me, you mean
your friend online? Yeah.
'Cause that, that I can hear it. They want chads.
I can hear it. That's somebody you're talking
to online. That's the other piece of
advice. Get away from those people.
Right, and because they don't want you saying he's like in the
danger zone too, is like it's, it's that black and white
thinking, right? He's, he's very vulnerable to
be, to finding himself in a place where suddenly like women
are the enemy, right? Simply because they will be.
Right on the precipice of it. Yeah.
Right. He's right there.
And the more he keeps or puts himself around men who keeps
saying, Oh, no, they think you're a feminine and they don't
want that and they don't want this.
And the more he's going to, he's going to be radicalized.
And that's how it starts. And this is how it happens.
So, Sir. Go to therapy.
Go to therapy please, I beg of you.
Get a diagnosis, figure yourself out.
Right, right. And I think that would be a good
start. Therapy would probably be the
most ideal start date women your own age understands that you
will not be for everybody and that is how it is for all of us.
And get away from these in cell forums.
You know, communities. Get away from those communities
and find a community. Go to Reddit and go to dating
over 40 or dating over whatever your age is.
I I happen to find those forums fairly healthy.
Plus it's men and women. Yeah, true, right.
So I, I think that would be, that would be better put
yourself around women, talk to women, learn how to interact
with women right? In a way where it's not, but if
I do this, then you're supposed to do this.
You need to, you need to learn how to mask.
Maybe that's part of it too. Learning how to mask learning
how to how to navigate these situations if you are having
trouble reading cues. Yeah, you don't want to come
across as transactional, which right now is definitely
happening. Yes, exactly.
And the more you interact with women on a platonic level and
start seeing them as human beings, the more successful
you're going to be. But get away from those
communities because they will drag you down.
All right, remember, if you want our full length content and the
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Sarah, any final thoughts? Value your time.
Therapies for everybody.
Correct. So bog witches, bog warlocks,
bog vase. Value your time, like Sarah just
said, decenter men, and center yourself.
Goodbye, bye.