I'm Jessica and this is ATC presents.
Their Bucky Rambles. Were a couple of friends review
Korean dramas on a very special episode.
I have my guest today. Alex from the Holly been
podcasting Gasps how are you Alex?
I'm doing great. Thank you for having me.
How are you? I'm so happy for you to be.
Here, we have been very friendly all over the socials for a while
now and I'm just so excited who have a fellow podcaster on and
to talk about a very special drama.
It is the very first sangguk AKA historical kdrama that were
covering on the biblical rumbles podcast ever.
So I just wanted to break it in with a wonderful guest who was
willing and able to watch a psychic.
That is not One's cup of tea. If you don't know Alex she has
her own podcast, a k-drama podcast or Holly you podcast,
and she is just wonderful. Please go give her podcast a
listen. Please go give it a follow.
All over the socials as well. Alex, what was your introduction
to kdramas? So my introduction was one that
I think was one for a lot of other people.
It was Boys Over Flowers. Yes, but I didn't watch it.
Until like the end of 2018. So it's like lately to the game.
Wow. Okay, so you watched it almost a
decade after it was aired. Yes, I was actually in grad
school. So I was working full-time and
doing grad school and I was online.
But my school got hit by a hurricane.
So we were out of class for like a month was my last semester.
Wait, well, hurricane was this? Because I live in Florida, it
North Carolina. I don't.
Ok. Ok.
So as well as goes, yeah. Got you, I don't remember which
one it was, but the name of it was, but it was one of those.
Like I was I'm I was in North Carolina at the time but I was
Inland. So it was fine.
Yeah. But like obviously my school
wasn't like it. Wilmington got hit really hard
like you can't even get in for the longest time.
So no school for a month and that was the first time in
almost two years. I had free time.
So I was like, I don't know what to do and I'd like to just kind
of Netflix and I was like, you know what, I had heard a Boys
Over Flowers from the from, like the manual or the mango or
whatever. Yeah.
Yes, says like I'm gonna watch this and then at the same time
as when M Garden was airing. Oh shit.
That's right. The Chinese remake.
Yes. So I literally went from from
Boys Over Flowers, like binged it because it was amazing.
Even, you know in 2018 it was it's so good.
Like it's bad. Like it's cheesy but it's great.
And and I went straight from that to like Meteor Garden, and
that's not just big step up to like, it is like the end of your
same story. Over again.
It's the same thing but they made some improvements like
surgical Cuts is just very good. Very well done and I can't
believe you just got skip to like you know it's hot.
I don't think I made the jump to like a Mandarin language drama
for like years. They took no really I'm too yeah
almost wasn't immediate like you've made the jump real fast
II, jumped ship from Korean dramas like immediately.
So with that and I just went through like Taiwanese dramas
for a while like for a Longtime the Taiwanese dramas are like a
whole other ballgame. Yeah.
Nice. Yes I did that.
And it wasn't until I got into Kpop later.
That I kind of went back to the Korean dramas.
Nice. Okay.
Full circle. Full circle, love it.
Yes. So if you if you don't know
about Kate Boys Over Flowers, I highly recommend you go research
it. I not sure that I would still
this day, I'm not sure if I would say, watch Boys Over
Flowers but it is foundational for so many people foundational
for me. It was like my second kdrama
ever and I came out of that drama loving it and I was madly
in love with Lee Min-ho right? I mean so yeah yes so there is
if That was a tree that would definitely be a ring on the
trees like the Lehman haut de Lulu era.
So anyway, in that era, oh good, I love to hear it.
Thank you so much for giving your background on kdrama.
I am going to ask this of more guests as they come on because I
think that's always a fun question to ask.
How did you even get here? Because it's nice.
Never like a natural. Like, well, I was watching.
Ting. Once Upon a Time on ABC, Family,
and then they showed a kdrama right after the show ended and
is very natural. No, and never, it's not like
that, not that easy. Again, I'm going to go into some
housekeeping really fast before we get started.
So if this is your first time listening, go ahead and
subscribe on your favorite pot asked app.
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patrons. Janet, Curtis, Robin and bail.
You guys are wonderful. All right, so we're going to get
started talking about the synopsis and the are day and all
that for the Ground clown so I'll read them.
I'd Ramallah synopsis. I have cut it down tremendously
because it was long and weirdly written.
So here's here goes, Jocelyn is in a state of disorder, due to
uprisings in a power, struggle surrounding King, even to avoid
assassination, a clown named Hassan who looks almost
identical to the king is brought to the Palace to take his place.
Now, Hassan is nervous that someone in the palace will find
out, he's not the real King. He falls in love with the
beautiful queen. You saw.
So the crown clown originally aired from January to March
2019. It's 16 episodes long and I
believe you both watched it on Netflix, so it's currently
available on Netflix. If you want to watch it yourself
it has Kim. He won as the Director.
She is a very prolific director because she's directed Vincenzo
soundtrack. Number one and Little Women,
which is currently airing right now in the year 2022.
And actually we just covered Vincenzo like an episode or two
two ago in this currencies and that we're on.
So that's wonderful. You can just scroll back in your
podcast feed and listen to another Kimmy.
One drama. The ground clown was written by
Kim Sun duck and there's not much info on the screen writer.
I think that he wrote another Saga but it's quite unclear.
So I'm not going to go ahead and say, like he wrote this, I don't
know, and it's co-written by shouldn't happen.
She is a wonderful screenwriter who wrote Hometown, Ted chaough
from 2021. So, I kind of get the feeling
that Kim Sun duck. It's brought a lot of the
historical and Saga aspect of it.
And then she known wrote, probably a lot of the more
tender moments throughout the show because of how her work on
Hometown, chatter child. Let's just divide that I get, is
very good show Stars. Yes, I'm Tasha definitely watch
it. The show Stars Yeo Jin, goo as
Hassan and King Ethan he's been in about 13.
Movies including Hawaii a monster boy which is an action.
Since this action suspense thriller with an All-Star cast
and he's been at about 25 TV shows, he's played pretty much
every vert younger version of an actor.
You could possibly think of and he was a prolific child actor.
So it's kind of weird for a lot of people to see him grown up
and play a more mature roles. We did Cover a judging go drama.
Last Is it on their back? And that was beyond evil.
So that was the 2021 drama. I think for 2022 people might
recognize him from link. Eat love kill you might
recognize him from hotel, de luna, my Absolute Boyfriend.
A lot of Dramas, he's very, he's got a very well-known face.
I would feel like you could probably be like oh, it's that
guy. He's co-star.
Is he saying? As she plays Queen Stone?
Also a child actor. And she's been in dramas since
2002, and you might see her recently in the Reds leave from
2021, which was up for a bunch of facts on the wards and was
really well, received, critically, and commercially.
And recently, I think she's on the currently airing drama.
The law Cafe. Are you watching the law Cafe?
I'm not, I've never even heard of it.
Fair enough. Fair enough.
I'm not going to knock you for watching.
Curly, are you drama? I am constantly trying to play
catch-up. So yeah, that's a whole nother
story for me. A lot of kdrama washers, but you
saying is a great actress, the supporting actors.
I'll go through two of them because there's a lot of actors
in this drama but just two of them.
Kim Seung Ki young as Chief secretary and he's been in like
nineteen movies, including the pirate. / Royal treasure from
this year 2022. And I think this is pretty big.
He started memories of murder from 2003.
He played Detective salt alien Big deal.
He's been about 14 TV shows, including most recently
racketboy is from 2021. And then, we also have one.
Hey, he'll as she's to the left State Chancellor, buzz, buzz
word in any psychic trauma. He's another crazy.
Great idea. She of kdrama and K Cinema.
He's been in about fifty two movies.
He's been acting since the 90s. I think I saw him last in
Peninsula from I need 20, which is the train to Busan Sequel and
then he's been in 47k, trembles including winter Sonata from 20
2002. My name is Kim Sam Soon with
hyeongbin from 2005 Cain and Abel, which is such an
underrated kdramas knee. He's been in lie to me, which
was my first kdrama ever jealousy.
Incarnate searched www from 2019, which we also covered this
season on the pod. P on Netflix.
That's a 2021 drama. And I think most recently
forecasting love and whether off from this year 2022, you watch
that one? No, no I did not.
So I sometimes my tone gives away like how I feel, but I'm
not a song kong person so it takes me a while to go through
his filmography. If I even like get there and
then POC menu and I was like, you know, whatever she's doing
like Same thing over and over. I love her and I actually have a
little bit of a weather nerd, so I was like, super excited about
it and I made it like four episodes before I dropped it.
Oh shit. Okay, so I'm okay and yeah
thinking yeah no I really need a maybe post hurricane because
I've watched her kdramas post hurricanes and those are such a
weirdo state that you're in but here watching a gauge on.
Okay, so we are on the other side of who's behind the camera
and who's in front of the camera.
Alex, tell me, what are your general thoughts on the crowned
clown? So, the first episode took me
three weeks to watch because I hated it and I actually ended up
really enjoying the show somehow good night.
All right, the the first episode was miserable to get through.
But after that, I think all the side characters are what sold it
for me. Like, honestly.
Like, I love you. Oh, jingle.
Like, he was one of the first actors that I probably
recognized in movies or in dramas because I watched Hotel
Del Luna and Absolute Boyfriend, like back.
To back and do my son. And I was like because I really
liked it, but I was like, just great and that was also my
introduction. I you I had no idea who she was
and Hotel Del Luna, right. Right.
Are you the fairy goddess Queen? Right?
No idea. I was like, oh, she's great.
I love her and then everyone was like, yeah, no kidding.
So how does I was really excited?
Because I'm not a big like, like historical drama person anyway,
but I was like, it's not looking good.
It's fine and and know No, he did not carry the show for me at
all. Um, really okay.
So um, the the character development of like the the side
characters though when getting to know them I just I loved it.
It was there so good and like a eunuch Joe was adorable.
Yes. So there's some people that
you're like you leave a drama and you're like they are some of
the heart of the show he and he was so cute what's adorable?
I would die for that man. He is Lovely.
Just absolutely wonderful. Okay.
So you were sold on the side. Characters weren't really even
though you loved you didn't gu you were not sticking around to
finish the show necessarily for him.
His acting was great, like, absolutely like being able to
play two characters and make them feel like, two different
characters is such a hard thing to do, but but I just, I hated
both the characters. Well, let me ask that, like, why
did you Hey, those characters because he is playing two
different routes. So so the OG King, I don't
remember Lee. Hyung.
Yeah, without getting too much into spoilers.
He's just kind of a jerk all over like, no matter what he was
mean to literally everybody. And I'm like, I just not here
for the toxicity. Like, yeah, it's sort of, it
makes sense. Like, as you kind of get to know
more More like, what's going on? It makes sense, which is why I
think it got better for me towards the later in the show.
When you start to figure out everything out a little bit more
but like in the first episode where it's just like, he's just
like doing his thing. Killing a lot of people and I'm
like, this is pointless. Um, okay, I see you weren't
quite gelling with like the political know I'd about it all,
okay. And then for like, Hassan, he he
got better towards the end, but it was like, I don't know what
it was about him, but it was just like he was just kind of
like doing things that didn't make sense and not always
listening to people. And then just Which I mean, I
guess it fits his character like, like it makes sense, but I
just didn't like, like, I everybody's infatuated with him
for some reason and I just wasn't like in the show, like,
people were like, oh, I kind of love you, You're great.
And I'm like, is he? Okay.
So let's put a, put a book Yak on that because I really wanna
dissect that. But for my general thoughts, I
thought this was one of the best Saga books I have ever watched
in my life. Of that.
You got me so worried because you were sending me messages
saying, it took me three weeks to finish episode one, and I was
like, what? Like that it started it yet and
I was so worried. I was like, oh shit, what am I
gonna do? I don't have like three weeks to
just spend on one episode. So I was like, really bugging.
So I watched this show within a week.
All 16 episodes within a week. Took me no time.
Had no issues getting through the episode.
Thuds episode 1 was I found a very great episode, really good
ended on a cliffhanger. Showed you everything you needed
to know all the players involved.
The factions or the political aspects that are at play here
and I think ultimately I was sold on this.
The story that's basically inspired by Mark Twain's The
Prince and the Pauper. Blueprint where someone is
replacing another person. There's doppelgangers involved.
And even though it's kind of one-sided because the king
doesn't replace the clown, you know what I'm saying?
I would have been sired. That would be you know what?
The way to the right things but they didn't do that.
It was just one-sided. Really liked you watching Goos
acting. Yeah.
It was a great away Blown Away by his acting.
I thought that he just had so much versatility.
One side of him was alarming and unhinged and then the other side
was incredibly endearing and righteous.
And I think the scenes that really spoke to me for his
performance were the ones where he was acting against himself
and there were precious few of them but they were so
captivating to watch him playing off of himself, which again,
Parent Trap that somehow because there's no way that he's in the
same frame at the same time. So it's really cool because he's
probably playing off of nothing when he's filming it but then
they you know CG is superimposed whatever both of them in post
and it's just really cool to see him play.
This really crazy King who actually existed like a lot of
these characters and politician. Ins are based on real-life
politicians of you're in Korea. So, I caught a like, oh my God.
Now it's like a semi historically accurate, not
historically accurate with a, with a clown taking over the
Kings, but doc, doesn't, that's not part of the history.
But I do like when I like when Saga Cooks, take a seed of like
a story in history and blow it out of proportions and that's
what this show is, I didn't have that much issue.
With the political aspects, I find that over time.
I have gotten a lot more comfortable with Palace,
politics and etiquette, and all that crap.
That's in the historical. Dramas, if you had asked me 10
years ago, what I thought of this drama or whatever and you
made me watch it back then I probably wouldn't be so up on it
because of all of the political machinations that are happening
throughout the show. Yeah, I think that was a lot of.
My problem is, I've only watched like two or three other like
historical dramas. Okay.
All right, let me know if you had any questions later on in
the spoiler section because I can try and answer them for you.
I was trying to figure out stuff too but then I was like I had
this thought in my head I was like man I don't know if Alex
has watched a lot of Psychics. Maybe this is like a like tough
anyway. What can talk about that later?
But you know one thing that I know 10 years ago I would have
liked as much as I loved today was the romance between Hassan
And the queen. Um, what did you think of that?
I felt really bad for the queen early on when it was like she
doesn't really know what she's getting into.
Um, okay. Because like, she's just clearly
like falling for him, but I wasn't sure how I was going to
end. So I was like, this is going to
maybe devastate her at some point.
Um, so I feel really bad for her on that end, but the actual like
Rome edits from itself. I'm a sucker for romance.
I was here for it. I was here, I was like eating it
up like it was a five course meal as well.
I loved you so long as the queen, I had only seen her
before in the red sleeve, which is another Saugatuck, from a
recent Saga house. Like she is amazing in the red
sleeve uncredible show, incredible performance.
And I thought, when I saw her as a queen and this y'all was like,
what is homegirl going to do? Because she has in my personal
bias opinion, or whatever. She has huge shoes to fill and
they're her own shoes. What am I gonna do if she was,
like, knock if she's not that good?
Good in this. She was great.
She was great, she was wonderful Queen, I found her character.
So quiet, graceful, gentle sweet, a dignified and all these
aspects that sometimes in Saugus, you don't have a love
interest that meets all of these things, wonderful criteria.
You know, she was very intelligent and intuitive,
especially when it came to Palace Affairs and etiquette.
And ultimately, I admired how she had a way with words.
I found that she was a Rate Sweet Talker.
Yeah and she had the most romantic things to say.
I was like, homegirl. He is whipped already.
You don't need to do this. Like this is extra and it was
just beautiful, beautiful. I think that to your point to
talk about some of the other side characters, I found that in
general, most of the characters were painted in Shades of Gray.
There were not like black and white good and bad characters.
So I think on the surface there are but if you look a little
closer, you're like, wow, these people have valid motivations or
they have a really interesting backstory that makes them
interesting to juxtaposed against the other person that's
on the good, you know, quote unquote team for the, you know,
clown. And I love that about the show
that you can. You can chew on the fat a little
bit on the other side characters.
And not just Is he oh my God, I'm messing up.
His name, haasan's clown character and his doppelganger
with the King. I think the last couple things
that I'll say, is that I found this show to be kind of, how do
I put it? Like, it was kind of like a loss
of Innocence story in more ways than one.
Yes, and that's really compelling to me.
I don't feel like, hey, dramas necessarily are known for
painting pictures of like, loss of innocence.
And, you know, learning trial by fire.
Fire and stuff like that. It's usually the person is the
protagonist is Good from the beginning and they just have a
lot of hardships, but they're still good throughout.
And sometimes in this show, that's not the case.
Like they go through a lot of moral quandaries and they have
they asked a lot of questions of themselves and others.
So I found that really great, you know, in a in any drama.
That's a good thing, right? No, I agree.
I think they Did a really good job of that.
And like you said, with the Shades of Gray on the
characters, I'm a sucker for a great character.
Like it's one of those, it's a huge character can technically
go either way. It's not always clear that
they're going to stay on like one side or the other and it
like would make sense for them to jump ship somehow or have
some sort of ulterior motive that even if it's not like the
main villain side a false and they go Rogue somewhere else.
Like I could have easily seen that happen quite a few times.
Yeah, for sure. I think something that bothered
a lot of About the show. Is that a night in mind this
though was that it feels like a to act show.
The first Eight Episodes is kind of one story and then something
happens at the end of episode eight like Ron that time.
And then the last half of the show is a whole different act
with kind of a different goal. And I like that about the show.
I am, I think it made sense for that to happen though.
Because yes, I do too. I think the big thing that we're
trying not to talk about is kind of granted in The Narrative of
the show. Like you just kind of think.
Yeah, this was going to happen at some point, but I think a lot
of people found that when that happened it like lost some of
the dramatic tension, if found it elsewhere, that's all they
gained it elsewhere. So, that's how I wasn't an issue
for me, but a lot of people An issue with that.
Yeah, I think maybe if I didn't, oh, go for it in jibt, all in
like three days. Oh, II might have had more of an
issue if I was dragging it out and like had like a week in
between episodes to process. Mmm.
And notice that like difference between like episode a even and
nine like that transition already.
But I I feel like watching it all almost like a really long
movie, it just made sense how it shifted and I didn't bother me
either like like I honestly didn't even notice.
Yeah, yeah, like I said romance was wonderful.
The score on this show was stunning to me.
I'm a huge like movies. Soundtrack score nerd or
whatever. And so when a kdrama is a good
score, I'm like I sit up straight like I'm like oh my
God, they're actually doing something, it's not just OST
like this is orchestral score, you know what I'm saying?
Hmm. Did you feel any type of way
about the osc or the score? So with that was T.
I didn't. I only noticed one song that
actually had vocals on it. Like only one of them like
normally I am all about the osts.
Yeah. And I don't quite a few.
And so I was like, oh, like when that one song Hit, I was like,
oh, wait a second, there's been no vocals.
But I had to take some notes on, like the score itself.
There were some songs that were giving me parts and Caribbean
Vibes which took me out a little bit.
Okay. So you're getting Hans Zimmer.
Yeah. Hospital fives from it.
Yeah. And I was like, I don't know
where this is. Coming from.
And then every time there was tension, the, the score they
would use for that sounds like the Among Us sound like the
nearer. Oh, okay, a nice smooth.
Look at comparisons and so outside of that, like I thought
the songs fit very well, it would just be like a few things
that kept taking me out a little bit like, like the among us
know. I never I didn't get that but
I'm not, I have not really familiar with Among Us.
So I'll, I'll see if I can clip it out of like the drama.
I'd like a find it in, like a monkey.
Yes. And send it to you and it to me.
Yeah. Because it just, it's so much.
Oh damn, what's your okay? So what trip me up was in the
score they had a love theme and it was stunning gorgeous but
what soon as they started playing at the melody was
recognizable to me and I was like where the hell if I heard
this before? Before I was going nuts, I'm
talking like 3 a.m. I'm trying to get Google to
recognize what this this melody is.
Playing it on like a keyboard, piano app, on my phone, like
trying to like figure it out. I was like, have I heard this in
another score before is it a classical piece of music?
I finally figured it out. So the Love Theme they used was
Franz Schubert's serenade. Oh, is a classical piece of
music from the 1800s and I I lost my shit, because, you know,
it's been a couple of days of just like Mania trying to figure
out where the score is from, where they took it from, where
is it from all this stuff? Finally, I find it.
And then it's on YouTube with, like, 61 million views on this
like, and this YouTube video super serenade as soon as I
start playing, I'm like, like I will start crying.
Like I was that's it. That's lumpy a lot of people
might recognize the Love Theme though because it's associated.
Added with the classic four seasons, kdrama summer scent
with seungheon young and Legend song.
That's a very old, not very old, but it's a classic kdrama from
back in the day. And I conveniently have never
watched Somerset. So I did not have any issues
associating. You know, the Schubert song with
their love theme in the show. And in fact, I really liked how
they kind of added and changed the song.
Bit to fit you know this show and how they didn't just stick
Schubert song in there. They re-recorded it you know for
the show and I was in love with it.
I am so happy that I found where the melody is from and you can
look it up yourself. The entire score is available on
Spotify, which is how I like I found it and I was like where
this is what I the Mania started because I was like, okay I hear
the Melody and I can't find it anyway.
That's beside the point. Anyway, let me give you some fun
facts about the show and then we can give our ratings and then we
can dive into spoilers. How does this home?
Sounds good? Okay.
So there is a very, very professional, you know,
well-researched list on Wikipedia that gives you the
highest rated series on cable television for kdramas.
And the crowned clowned is sitting at number 24, so it's
the 24th. Highest rated series on cable
television, which is really good.
Had high ratings throughout, I, you mentioned, Prince and the
Pauper. So the whole show Crown cloud is
a remake of the 2012 movie, Masquerade, starring evm gun and
the queen in that movie is played by Han hyo-joo.
From where's on YouTube? W0 leading lady from W.
Yeah so I conveniently have watched that movie and it is
excellent. I can tell you.
So if you are not fully want to, if you don't want to fully
commit to Crown Cloud right now and you just want to get a taste
of what the story is. You can always watch this
two-hour movie which won best film and director at the 49th.
Baek zyoung Awards. It is an excellent movie.
Highly recommended, I might have to watch it now.
Definitely watch it. It's good.
I remember thinking like this is cool.
I vividly remember watching the movie and going, this is cool.
This is cool movie. I'm like, well done, almost
everyone, like I said before, except for the clown, Hassan is
based on a real historical figure of the Choson period And
I have in my notes. I said this is a question to
myself. Did this win any awards?
Question mark question, mark, question, mark.
It did, it did win awards at the 55th Back song.
Arts Awards, judging, goo was nominated for best actor and
actually didn't win. He didn't win.
So it's just sad. But anyway, Kim Sung, Kyu, young
witch who played he played? Chief secretary Hawks on.
He was also nominated for best supporting actor in which is
great. So, they were nominated.
They were it's just an honor to be nominated.
Just like it's an honor to be nominated for an Oscar.
I wish that they had one and I think that's all for my fun
facts. What would you rate this drama
out of five Soju bottles? Three and a half.
I think three and a half. Okay, I am in a rated. 4.5 4.
So, 2 bottles out of, I love this show.
I had a great time with it. I think that if you like
political shows and you're definitely going to like it.
If you're a fan of really good, sweet, humble romances then
you're going to like the show and if you like yaojin goo,
there is nothing that I can say that will deter you from
watching the show you should definitely watch.
This is like a Master Class. It's from your jinguk, I swear.
Okay, so with that, I think we're going to get into spoilers
right after this. You want to come in?
All right Alex run the other side of spoiler.
So anything goes where would you like to start about this show
and talking all things spoilers? Gosh, um, the endings what's
fresh on my mind but I kind of want.
Okay, listen about the ending. So let's talk about this.
I also had some qualms with this ending which is why I gave the
show a 4.5 instead of a 5 Stars, the ending.
And I mean ending is in the final 20 or so minutes of the
chest. Not the full hour because a
full, there's nothing wrong with the flowers.
Just the last like, 20, 15, 20 minutes of the show.
It was a bit agonizing because I didn't think they necessarily go
that route. I mean to me, it almost felt
like what else could they possibly throw at us?
It's the say it to me. It was almost the same as if
you're cooling down after a workout, you're trying to get
your heart rate down, you're stretching your doing all this.
And then, the trainer comes in out of nowhere.
And I can't drop and give me Honey, that's what the last 20
minutes of the show felt like, because like, for what?
Why did they have to go that far?
Yeah. They had me, they cut me.
I was so happy with like how it was wrapping up and then it was
like, yes, wait, yeah, wait what?
Yeah, that's exactly how I felt too.
I felt that they were going about it the right way.
They had, you know, I will accept a bit of a Time jump.
They had he ruled for what? Maybe like a year or so they
kind of made it seem like it was only a short period of time but
it could have been longer. It was kind of a big it was
about a year because they had talked about At one point, when
the gisaeng I can't remember her name, but when she was leaving
at the end to go to somewhere else, three years.
Yeah. Okay.
So that's why I'm thinking it was only a year so he ruled in
peace and prosperity for like a year.
Then he leaves the throne to. Another Royal who is kind and
shares, his values. Whatever, honestly, solid move.
It's all I move. Not have no issues with that.
Yeah, he never meant to pass on his bloodline anyway.
He As which I found kind of like odd because I'm like whatever
you're there already. You know?
I'm saying if I had you had your at a theme park and you're like
I'm not gonna ride that ride. Hey I hate tensions of writing
the best right here which is character though.
Of like he can. Yeah, he fixed everything and he
peaced out. He what I liked was that he left
the throne the monarchy better than how he found it.
Yes, which I found really just in line with his character.
Exactly. Like you said the queen, Has
dethroned. Which is fine.
She wanted it. I then I had a problem with that
because the, yeah, because they made such a big fuss about being
dethroned and then like they kind of glossed over it or
they're like yeah sure we're going to let that happen to the
move on and I'm feeling sitting was solid though because she
wasn't Dethrone necessarily for anything that she did wrong.
I think he probably dethroned her because she could no longer
have children, which is a very valid reason in back in charge
Dynasty to Dethrone a queen because he wanted a valid.
Are yeah. I just uh so he dethroned her.
I feel like she wanted to because she yeah.
She said the reason she was like, okay, Dethrone me first.
Yeah, he was like, wow, he kind of had this look like No And she
was like if you leave and you leave me here without being
dethroned, I will become the queen Dowager and I will never
get to leave the palace. We will never be together.
Yeah, like like okay of that little Logic, the logic behind
it makes sense. I just feel like They skipped
over a lot of drama that would have happened between her being
dethroned and him just abdicating.
Like, but he was a very easy discernment.
I'll give you that. There's like that all of that
they're like, okay, we're going to give their land, I can't do
this. He desperately tried to keep her
on the throne not have her dear owned for 16 episodes in the
last 20 minutes. She's like, okay, go ahead, do
it. It was a little bit like okay.
Then he abdicates. Yeah which also isn't a big
deal. Wasn't a big deal.
He wanted they have they gave him a lot of reverence and the
big walk out of the palace was great.
I don't know if you noticed when he's walking out and there's
other this giant Plaza, expansive, Stone Plaza, that
he's walking down, he's walking in the direct center of it.
And he makes a point of stepping off this Center path that he's
on and on to like the regular, you know, area and what he's
doing is stepping off the Kings path.
Yes. So I love that.
Yeah, that was really cool symbolic moment for him and I
don't think a lot of people would necessarily know that if
they hadn't watch a few psychics.
But I found that very powerful where he was like, oh, wait, let
me stop. And because it was him turning
into a regular citizen again, and then he exits, and he's
dressed in plain clothes and all the stuff that's great.
On his way to the queen. This is when it gets bad, he
attacked he's at Not by a gaggle of soldiers, who wanted to
avenge the queen Dowager, and it's a mess like the Royal Guard
officer Jang. I think is his name.
Yeah, he dies say trying to save him because that was the way he
wanted to go as well. He's like, I want to die like,
protecting you. I, when I have this honorable
death and all that shit, he had it fine.
Give it to him. I cried over that, though.
I loved him so much. He was great.
He had a great Arc to because You know, initially he's
throughout the show, he's very loyal and very, very stoic,
which is the blueprint for a bodyguard in the Royal Palace,
but he does take orders that he ends up, you know, negating or
going against and he tries to kill him at one point like dumps
him in the pit out in the middle of nowhere and wild and then he
goes and picks him up and he doesn't kill him which is what
the OG crazy. He wanted the doppelganger
wanted and ultimately, he goes through, you know speaking to
him. Casually not using honorifics to
using honorifics with him and accepting him as the king and
really showing loyalty fealty to Hassan, which is beautiful.
A great Arc for the guy and that's why he follows him out of
the palace. And it's like, you are you going
to leave me behind? And it was very emotional and
your least. He's like there was just like
looking at each other that moment and then these Fucking
fools. Come out of them brush and are
just like for the queen. They order and you're like, for
what war? He, I don't know where so the
guard dies. Yeah, we're all heartbroken
super obsessed son, gets shot by two arrows in the back.
Keels over time. Jump two years later.
I was like, no, they did not do this to us when they did the
time Jump, I knew he was going to survive, but it was just
like, really we're going to do Even in the time Jump, I thought
that they would not do a so dirty that the way they did.
Because you see the queen walking around this Village it
with a deposed queen or whatever walking around the village,
having a good time. The clowns are in town and you
see his sister, and his, you know, friend Uncle will however,
whatever you want to call him. Also doing the show in the town.
And she's very emotional, gives gives away a couple of rings.
She had Jade rings and she's like, oh, oh, you reminded me of
my loved one, my beloved. And I thought when she went
home, he would be there or something like that.
She may be looking at his Compass, the one that she gave
him and he would walk in the room like something like that.
No, she just kind of, she just cries because he is legitimately
missing in action. They never found his body, and
as soon as I said, they never found his body, I was like, this
is the dumbest shit that they could have pulled.
In the final 20 foot 15 minutes of.
I wish they had at least explain better where he was for two
years because it was kind of, like, time passed.
I was unconscious. It made no sense.
Like what, what is the protocol when you find an injured man in
the wild you can't wear, is there a hospital or something
that he's been staying at 42 years?
Based on the kdramas. I watched you just kind of take
them in and deal with it and don't look for like family.
I'm not sure who was rendering, care to him for two years for
him to just be okay. He made it seem like I was
asleep or something for all this time.
Then when I woke up, I was too weak to run back to you, which I
thought was funny. I was like, is that implying
that he had physical therapy and Dynasty so that he can walk his
way back to his girl. It was they try to make it I
Guess fall in line with what they had promised each other
before, which was he ended up taking the long way round, which
was, that was the quote from her.
She was like even if you take the long way around, I'll still
be here for you. Yeah.
But they like to they did not. He did not need to take the long
way round. Okay like these this was done.
I went through enough over 16 episodes.
There was no need for them to pull this like dirty trick.
I thought this was dirty D. Yeah, I wasn't a fan.
It's really what it's like to cheer Gap and then he wasn't
there. I was like really, really.
So she said around and just like Pine for like somebody who she's
had assumed was dead, but was never going to be sure because
there wasn't a body so they're like, we found Master.
We found officer Jang. Woo, didn't find him.
We don't find The King and I was like, you're shitting me.
Fuck out of here. Eyeless live, it, I was like, oh
my God, they did not. Just do the.
So anyway, the ending points taken for the fight, literally,
the final 20 minutes or so show. Yeah.
We're on the same page, sir. I think that we have to talk
about the romance, so now that we've already like, talk through
the ending of them because they do have a technically happy
ending. Yes, the end up together.
He does like return. I wasn't sure if they were going
to, you know what, I feel the same way.
I was kind of like this could end badly and it would still be
a fair like a fear thing to do because the content of the show
The Narrative and I was like this.
Has a fair chance of men eating badly for both of them.
They just don't end up together but luckily they did finally end
up together. He took the long way around
whatever I said before spoiler break that I really like the
purity of the romance. There was just such a warmth and
kindness and consideration that he showed toward her and she
instantly gravitated towards him because she was living Like a
zombie in the palace and she was not getting any warmth or
kindness or consideration from the OG King and some moments
between them are just a wonderful like he she trips over
a stone and tries to play it off but he notices the pebble that
he starts kicking them, he starts kicking all the rocks and
Pebbles out from the path because he's walking out of her.
I'll I was like, this is Is goals like this is I can see
that he was written by a woman. You know what I'm saying?
Hmm. I'm trying to, I have a really
funny note. I don't have to there.
He ends up. Oh, go ahead.
Did you find it? There's in um, in one of the
episodes when they're hanging out in the library and he's just
staring at her. Oh, and it's my nose literally.
Just I want a boyfriend that looks at me the way he's looking
at her right now. That her so preciously and
Tenderly and he ends up treasuring, her life above his
own because he ends up taking a bullet for her so to speak.
Yeah, he just reflexively Shield her from the arrows because the
queen Dowager again, just trying to murder them.
It's ultimately a relationship that gets built on trust and
equity which I found really refreshing in a saga of drama
because usually there is some sort of inequality between
Between the male and female leads.
And in this case even though he is playing royalty, there's so
much Equity between them like she helps him read his reports
written in Chinese characters. I'm just like this is a key to
see there are no barriers between them as as there would
be, there should be between them if he were a true Royal and she
ends up helping with his kingly duties.
Like that's very The, for the queen to be, so involved like
that, and just be hanging out in the Kings Library.
Things like that are just not usually done in the sagas.
So it was very special, I think for both of them to not only get
to know each other, but like get to know each other on a soul
level which was really refreshing.
They have start over halfway through the show.
Basically. Yes.
She's like, what is your name? Like she had no idea which I
feel terrible about. Yeah.
Yeah, I think that's where I would mentioned earlier.
I felt really bad for her. I think it was everything
leading up to, like that point where I was like, this isn't
great especially when the, the OG can comes back.
Oh yeah, so let's talk about that.
So they have all these Great Moments between them because
he's the replacement and actually a nice hazelnut thing
where he's that, he's the couldn't Queen could make her
wish at the bridge and so you gave her some hazelnuts.
He collected. What should who has hazelnuts in
there? It's leave.
It was great, like, great moment of levity and says, oh, there's
a legend that if you crunch on them, you'll start all the
goblin that lives under the bridge, or in your house, who
would then Grant your wish. So that comes into play in
episode 20 with the terrible ending that we don't really
like. But anyway, so the hazelnuts are
great, she holds onto it. It's like a token for her and,
you know, everyone's gravitating toward Hassan everyone's falling
in love with Hassan, which we can talk about later, you see,
I'm to be quite annoyed by that, you know, the real King comes
back like an episode 7. He's mad as hell.
Uh, nearly slices everyone up, you know, Hassan gets dumped
into tiger pit up in the mountains to die and the real
king is most upset by how the queen seems enamored by him how
her whole demeanor and her health has even improved by
Being near the clown and he fought.
He's like most he's thinking back to interacting with the
queen and queens, like smiling lovingly at him.
Never seen that before. And he moves up the consummation
date before the consummation date.
He had already written up his decree to Dethrone her and
behead her before. Even attending the consummation,
how fucking vial is that? The hall they I was just like, I
hope something happens. To stop this conservation
because I was like, I'm going to have a major problem with the
show that goes through. I was like, yes, sucks.
If he was like nice to her, for like, five minutes, their whole
relationship would be different like this.
Let's talk about this because I think that I have a different
view of the OG King and his relationship with the queen
because she had some good memories with him before he took
the throne, right? She was saying oh, he held my
hand. Never in comforted me when
things were kind of crazy in the whole sphere sphere that they're
in and, you know, he told promise me that, you know, we
would stick together. We'd stay together and it just
kind of like generally nice stuff.
We never see a full-on flashback of him being wonderful to her
but she does. So it does seem like there's
enough there from when they were crowned Prince and Crown
Princess to carry her into this really crazy.
Loveless marriage, when he's King.
So I feel really bad for her because not only is she stuck in
a Loveless marriage but he seems to not care for her anymore.
The way that he used to. And there's some things that
made me think maybe he still does care for her because early
on, they show him going to her chamber or whatever in a fit of
rage but he's there and he tries to like kiss her and she turns
away Yeah and instead you think that a man who's having
hallucinations acting crazy is going through crazy episodes of
mania and rage. What?
Just just rape her, you know what I'm saying?
Like what what does he have to lose?
There's nothing stopping him and he doesn't go so far as that he
just kind of like tells her people think that It's me that
doesn't want you, who would think that it's the other way
around. Mmm.
And I found that really poignant.
Like, you know, yeah, he's okay with these rumors about her
because who has the power in that relationship, it's really
her the whole time. So no I agree that there's some
glimmers that he does care for her right.
Like I'll say I he's not completely at fault either
because there's a lot of like the the paranoia and in the
drugs and all that going on that causes him to be like that.
Then there's like how long did it take for him to like, how
long was he gone to detox me? Still came in as just like the
most vile person I've ever seen. Probably lonely.
Because I was confused too. I have No experience now, what
not only were drugs but with opium in particular, but it
seemed like he was smoking. Opium completely addicted to
Opium plus they were throwing on some incense that was giving him
hallucinations. So who know where the hell they
got that, like, from whatever mushroom, they derive that
incense from. But I felt extremely confused
when again, he's up in the mountains, completely detox
removed from the The drugs and he's still messed up.
Yeah. I like I get the, like, the
anger and stuff because I think at that point, it's kind of
become just as personality to just always be angry.
But like the, everything else that came with it where I was
like the paranoia, some of that shit that used up but like he
literally just don't trust anybody.
Besides the one, dude. You shouldn't trust.
The left State. Chancellor.
Whatever is nice to lipstick chance late.
Like guys, always a problem, never trust that guy.
Look, if you are watching a saga, And the left State.
Chancellor is a good guy, you're not watching a saga.
Look like that's not. That's, that's always the guy,
you gotta watch out for. Yeah, but yeah.
And then it's like he came in and like the guns blazing mad
that they did anything while he was gone.
It was like what what what, what else?
Right right, yeah. So, it was a lot of a little bit
of questioning with his condition and how they've framed
it because it seemed like once he was got off the drugs, He
should be okay, but he wasn't no, not a still really paranoid
still having hallucinations still seeing his dead little
brother, like craziness. Speaking of the little brother
that was all the way in episode 1.
And I was pretty much heartbroken from episode 1 by
this, this whole sequence that they had the Old King does Cameo
by Jang. Hyuk, who's the old King
complex? Daddy issues here, and I wasn't
quite sure. or who everybody was because he had this queen who
becomes obviously upon his death, the queen Dowager, she's
a major player throughout the rest of the Moon, the movie, the
rest of the show, and you had this half-brother and I thought
originally that the king with the OG King were just keep
calling him the OG King. But the OG King.
I thought he was a legitimate Heir from the previous Queen,
not the current Queen who becomes the queen Dowager, but
that wasn't the case he was from similar concubine.
Or oh, I didn't get that at all. Yeah, so I have to figure it out
and look up the history. So he was not technically a
legitimate heir. Because he came from some other
concubine. But once the queen who was a
Barren died, his dad married, the queen Dowager in the show
who was significantly younger and produced children for him.
So that's why he was threatened by that little half-brother at
the beginning of the show because everyone considered him
a legitimate Heir. And of course, You know, you
have to think of the political aspect of it.
It's a child, so you can do whatever you want.
Like raise the child Harvey, white rule in the child's dead.
So everybody who wanted something was gunning for the
half-brother to be enthroned and that just didn't happen.
No. Yeah, sad.
That upset me. That upset me a lot did upset me
when He makes his dad beg to spare the sun like the
half-brother. And you see this complex like
emotions running across the space because you see when he's
telling his Bat his dad that's not how you ask for a favor on
his deathbed and the dad like gets up and it's like I can't
believe and it starts like, you know, giving a half-ass a
begging. That was the King dies.
He's sad. So there was anger before and
then once the king finally dies, he's upset and visibly, you
know, shaken by the King's death.
So they're very complex daddy issues happening here which we
never quite get into. We just don't, there's not
enough time for it. I guess and there's a massive
house cleaning upheaval Chief, counselor declares people
Traders, whatever the little brothers arrested exiled.
And then finally, poisoned. I just so emotional and sad
because he's so young. That little brother is a child
completely innocent. He loves his brother, he loves
his brother. That's the thing.
It's like he loves the OG King, like with unconditionally,
there's nothing. He doesn't know what's going on.
And you just feel so much for the kid cuz he's getting dragged
away from his mom. He doesn't know why they're
locking up in jail. Why?
Doesn't know. And when he shows up when the
oig king finally shows up, he runs that the kid runs out and
he's like what took you so long like but just very pitiful.
Yeah. And that hurt it her and it was
unclear as well. If the OG King believed, the
lies that they told about the little kid or he just accepted
them because he wanted to kill his own brother out of hate or
spite. I don't know.
Yeah, it's very Clear, there's a lot that happened in that first
episode, a lot of murder and that was like, I don't know who
any of these people are. I'm not sure who I'm supposed to
care about and I was like, and all I see it's just this one
dude killing everybody. Yeah, my little, my only note
for the first episode is literally the king and clown or
both annoying. Oh, I didn't go so far as to say
that if I have to hear, are you not afraid of the heavens one?
More time. I think I'll just flip a table
because they said that's so much throughout the show and
especially in the first episode because that was when a lot of
Carnage and stuff was happening. But I do like how in the first
episode they introduced, of course, Hassan and they have
this big juxtaposition between the two of them, where Hassan is
just, so good-natured and kind, and fun, and charismatic.
And, of course, episode ends with the meeting of the Angers
and you have this great sequence of the king, just like get it OG
King getting up and like going to stand, close to him with the
light. I like the lamp in his face.
They're both shocked. And they the way that y'all
jingu is standing between the two of them, like it's vastly
different. It is a very physical
performance that I feel he's putting on and the demeanor
everything about like the micro You know, facial changes that
he's making between the two of them.
It is a completely different character that he's putting on
between the OG King and Hassan. And I love how the OG King is
like, repeat after me like say this you fool, can't you play
your role properly and he ends up saying the same exact line is
the king. He wants him to pretend to be
him for a second and he says the lie like you fool, can't you
play a role properly and even It is the same because it's your
jingu like saying the same line. It is still.
A different performance. You know what I'm saying?
Yeah, no. That was, even though I didn't
necessarily like, either characters seojun, go just did
such an amazing job of establishing that they are
different people and there's a, there's a lot of movies, like,
you mentioned, like, The Parent Trap earlier, like where it's
very clearly. The same person just just
they're playing the same person twice more or less, right?
But no, he does such a good job of.
It doesn't like you could have told me that you didn't go has
like a twin and they were just both there and like I'd have
been like that makes. Right.
Okay. If I didn't know anything, I'd
be like know. That makes a lot of people.
A lot of people thought Lindsay Lohan, had a twin Yeah, it's the
same kind of deal here. I feel like he just knocked it
out of the park. He did.
It was like, even just watching like the the two characters,
like walk like the king had like the Swagger all the time, it was
really funny. I was like I wouldn't expect him
to and like because he's a king but men like because of his
personality kind of makes sense. He has more of like a Swagger
when he walks whereas Hassan was actually more like up, right?
And proper and I think it's because he's more unsure of
himself most of the time. So he's like I have to like Be
this and I'm like if you had like five seconds to watch the
king walk around like no. Yeah but yeah, it was absolutely
riveting to see the two vastly different performances and I
think that people don't talk about this a lot.
Like I don't hear people talking about guilty and go in the
clowns and the crown clown. No, I remember.
It was really popular when it was airing and then like no one.
Nothing. Yeah.
Like where's the give the man his due?
He's amazing. I wonder though if that's
because like early. So, this is 2019 right early.
Yeah. Early. 2019 was because Hotel De
Luna came out immediately after and Absolute Boyfriend.
I think was airing at the same time.
So it was like so much back to Act like everyone jumped from
the crown clown to like hotel de luna.
I think so that might because he did a really good job in that
too, in my opinion. I so I dropped hotel de luna,
all, really? I it's one of my favorites.
Like, I actually scary watching it before before.
So it's, this is a total tangent, but I stopped watching
hotel de luna because they were trying to make.
I you like this really fabulous villain, And I was like, I don't
see I you as a Villain Like period, she's not threatening in
any manner. So she's so she's not a villain
in the show. No, I understand.
I get that from the promo and everything and the tiny Clips
I've seen on social media. She's not the villain but she is
kind of an antihero kind of dude and like it just wasn't working
for me. I was like, she's a fairy, you
know. No saying, knowing I, you know
that that makes sense. I think going in being like, I
have no, like, I went in because Him not her.
I was like, I'm gonna watch this one because it's fantasy too
because, you know, Jin goo. So yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
I feel you. And it's a well like drama.
I'm just um, one of those people.
Anyway. Um, getting back to the ground
clown. They kill off this poor little
Palace. Maid and like episode two
brutal, she get poisoned and I like how the queen is the only
person who can be Near him. And she gently cleans his hands
off because he still has all this blood on his hands and
she's got such a calming effect on, not just him but on the
audience, I feel. Because as soon as she enters
the frame I'm like I'm just so calm and relaxed right now, like
she's just very ethereal in that way.
Something that was not ethereal at all.
Was the heartbreaking episodes, like, 435 haasan's little sister
gets raped. Oh my gosh, I the left State
councillor, son. And I was just devastated.
I was devastated. Like she goes, mute and
everything from the trauma. It's just so bad.
I am glad he got Punished a lot for that.
I don't. So you were okay with it.
We're not. Okay, but you felt like the
punishment fit the crime. No.
But at least something happened. Well, he made a fun distinction,
though, not long after that because he gets scared and
leaves the palace and it comes back after.
You know he finds out what happened to the sister and
everything and he's just full of Rajon wants to avenge her, his
sister like rightfully so and he says I don't want to kill him, I
don't just want to kill that dude.
Like I want him to suffer and be punished for the crime that he
committed not just for me to kill him for some of the thing
or punish him for some other misdeed and I found that really
interesting like it's almost delayed satisfaction.
Yes and he waited What I'm saying?
You waited all that time to have this opportunity on meant to
punish him and brand him for being a rapist.
And he not only did that but he established a new precedent.
He was like, I'm going to change the law.
How about that? And I was like damn like that is
like King King material right there.
Yeah, it was definitely a boss. Move of.
We're just going to rewrite the law which the law should have
been rewrote, where the bottom tier and the hierarchy, there
doesn't. Matter what happens to them,
like there's punishment for everything except them.
Like are you kidding, didn't you just want to like, shoot the guy
when the kid goes He standing in front of the King, right?
He just got accused of rape and he did it.
He's not denying that he did it, but he's like, it doesn't
matter. I'm it doesn't matter because
she's a low-class of kid, like, low-class girl, I was just
matter. So, angry I was like, oh my God,
I just want to throw hands at that point, right?
And then they're still like human punish you anyway.
I feel like he doesn't think of her as you know, and the King
Hassan is saying like, oh, I'm gonna do all this and he's like,
you can't your highest. You can't do that.
Like, who the hell do you think you are?
Like, telling me what I can and cannot do.
Like, it was just mistake after mistake, after mistake with that
kid. You taught.
Let's talk about like how the side characters and everyone
around. Hassan fell in love with him
because you said earlier that, you didn't like that.
So talk to me about that. Like, what do you, what do you
think in there? I just I I don't know what it is
about Hassan, this is really rubs me the wrong way, where I'm
like, what honestly, I feel like if I was like in his presence to
like in that I'd have been like the same of know this kids great
like whatever. But the same time I'm like,
everybody's like, oh we're gonna pretend you're the king for a
while and we're gonna just fall in line and you're great and
charming, and it's not like he's an actor.
Of course, he's Charming. Like like, he's a clown.
That's that's it sound like I hope, I don't know.
I have trust issues. I guess.
So I would have been like, I don't know.
I want to trust this kid. And then like he had his moments
where he was hot-headed to and he would go do really stupid
stuff that they don't have to go get fixed or a lot of people
were going to die that were trying to help him.
It's like I also feel like he was very impulsive.
Yes, decisive in ways that the people around him in the chief
secretary more not and sometimes he it definitely worked outside.
Yeah. Push things forward in a
positive way and made good decisions, while he was on the
throne. And what was cool was.
Even though he had the chief secretary like, breathing down
his neck, telling him what to say, telling him, you know how
to comport himself and, you know, memorize this and you
can't read and all this stuff as soon as he walks in, and he's
sitting on the throne, whatever he says goes.
Yep. So he can go Rogue and he does
pretty heated of the time. And it was really entertaining
to see as an audience member, but it was really satisfying to
see also as an audience member because you have Tagging is here
with an. In fact he's an infallible
protagonist and everyone falls in love with him.
Not just because he's so young Jin, goo and handsome and
Charming. Um, they are moved by him and
his impeccable moral compass by his righteousness and his caring
attitude towards the people. Because he comes from the
people, he is of that lower class and so he is making giant
changes in the government, that is benefiting.
Being not just the ruling class. It's benefiting everybody and
it's throwing everybody in a tizzy.
Yeah, I like the the side where it's the stuff that like helps
the more common people like definitely like respect, but
it'd be like the other things were.
He just go have like a ranting like have a fit with like the
queen Dowager because she likes lighted the queen or something.
I was like, okay, I get it but I'm like I'll give you the right
move dude. You that?
Yes, he's kind of going head-to-head with the queen
Dowager and there's a lot of tete-a-tete.
It's between them where you're just like you don't really have
the upper hand here. Yeah.
So why are you dig yourself a deeper hole?
Your other people are going to have to clean it up or you're
gonna get somebody killed that. You're trying to not get killed,
I don't understand where you're coming from.
There is a long laundry list of achievements that Hassan did
throughout the show and I have them here.
So here let me know, let me know if I'm missing any so here go he
saves the Queen's father from an unjust execution.
So instead he exiled Him he saves the queen from analyzing
herself because at one point she like took a dagger, she was
going to stab herself because the whole thing he saves her, he
recruits the lowborn Huggle, who's like the mathematician
like I love Rehan character. He also has like crush on Hassan
by the end of it was adorable, loved it on that vein.
He literally steps all over the aristocratic some kumquats
Scholars for A horse whole girls promotion because they weren't
even letting him in the palace, like, makes no sense but he
holds special stating exams were anybody?
No matter their station. Could sit for the tax reform
thing. We're only land owners will have
to pay taxes, refuses to send tens of thousands of soldiers to
Ming for their war. And he has these lines that are
really wonderful. He's like as a father of this
nation, how could I send? They're my sons to their death.
That also like he takes ownership of the people and he
really advocates for them. And at that point he tears all
the ministers to personally go to war for me.
If it's so important to them like why don't you just pick up
and go and I'm like it's great he refuses to depose the queen
because she has a little hissy after finding out that he's not
the king and like just Leaves the palace to go visit her dad
and Exile. And that was frustrating because
it was not on his end, but on hers.
Because, like, I get why she left and then, like, you gotta,
like, save her basically, but he couldn't say why he wasn't mad
at her. It was like, like, yeah,
situationally aggravating true. He's like, he's not like, well,
I'm not really who I said I was. So, she got mad and just like,
jump shit. No, he can't say that.
What he does is he blackmails the queen?
Dowager's, so that she could return.
No consequences, great idea. He refused to Simply kill the
left State Chancellor's sun, which we talked about before he
waits until he can be punished for the crime that he committed
and sets a new precedent. All this great stuff.
Then he at in the final, couple of vessels crushes, the coup
from the giant villain team-up that I didn't because I was
Queen, Dowager joins hands with the left state councillor.
And one of the princes Prince, Jim peeing, or whatever was also
in the mix and like, had develops the army of, like,
3,000 soldiers. It's like nuts.
So, all these three people join hands and were trying to
Dethrone him. That was so messy too, because
they were all like plotting against each other.
The same time. Nobody was like on their side.
Like nobody was truly. Loyal to the other person.
So there was a lot of like in squabbles between them and stuff
which is fun like fun to watch. There's so much stuff, good
stuff that he did and he also stopped the queen from analyzing
herself a second time. This.
Oh my God. That's right.
The second time. And then he saves her.
Like I said before, you took to two arrows in the back or
something, one are on the back for her.
Yeah, this is great. I really liked speaking of the
queen in episodes 6 to 7 or so they go.
A date out in the town. That was so cute.
Is fucking wonderful. So they eat like a stew with
tripe and pig's heart and it's kind of like low, not low
quality cuts of meat, but it's just like common, a commoners
meal and it's so sweet. How she eats it like a champ.
He's like, what is this? And then he tells her what it
is. She kind of makes a face and
then she just he's like, well we don't have to eat her if you
don't want to, she's just like already swallowing asleep.
Great. And then she'd noticed that
this, at this point, she's like noticing different things about
him. And she's like, it seems like
you've eaten this before and he's like, no, no, no.
I have I haven't done anything yet.
They go to buy the compass later and he haggles with the sales
guy and she's like, it seems like you've done this a hundred
times before it. He's like, I've never done that
before. It's great.
I really liked when he asked her when they were eating and he
asked her, the question of like, which house would they want to
stay? And she's like this one and he's
like, that's the smallest one here.
She's like, why exactly? Like so?
I, we don't have to do anything besides turn our heads to see
each other and I was like, oh, I want this kind of love.
This is why I'm single. This is what a standard, such a
good green flag, man, and such a wonderful well-spoken lady
because she's just like, want that house over there small
house while you want it. We just have to turn our heads
to look at each other and it's so sad because in the X of the
palace. They have entirely separate
wings, that are far from one another.
And so she's speaking from experience, she would rather be
close to him and she would rather have this long commute
home to be with him for longer periods.
Of time is just like, uh, beautiful beautiful words and I
adore the queen and that date that they had was just
beautiful. I think in that episode though,
he gets tossed in the pit, I think it's the tiger pit comes
back. Can comes back.
He gets tossed. In the tiger pit.
Did you get like Dark Knight Rises Vibes or was that just me?
Is it just me? It's been a while because he
knows, okay, okay, so Dark Knight Rises, they throw Batman
in a pit. Basically, I don't remember that
at all. And he has to cut, not adapt it,
but it's like almost looks like a giant well, and it's full of,
you know, a bunch of other prisoners.
And the only way to get out is to climb out and that's why I'm
saying that this seeing kind of felt like Dark Knight Rises,
because he climbs out of this It and bit by bit.
He's almost out. There's a flashback of him,
getting stabbed by the chief secretary and the chief
secretary going, like, clown. Hassan is dead.
You are now the king, like furniture, mattock, and just as
he's about to, essentially, get out and be reborn.
These wolves descend and pushing back down into the pit and I
felt like, oh, this is like a metaphor.
This is my thinking cap, right? This is like a metaphor for like
the beasts of the political thing.
But he's trying to overcome and they keep like tearing him down
and all this stuff. Yeah.
I quite like that seen and felt very important felt so bad.
When he fell back down after like the wolves or whatever,
showed up, I was just like, oh oh, oh he's in so much pain
already. Yeah, no.
Yeah. But the king comes back and that
episode is crap because he tries to undo everything that Hassan
did even if it was good. Out of spite or jealousy or so
frustrating reassert himself into the mix and he imprisons
the kissing lady and the Rain Man guy.
All song, whatever his name is and the chief secretary has no
choice but to come back and kneel before him and what the
king says is. So just diabolical, he says, do
not turn your back against me ever again.
Should you be Tre me, I will crush all of your loved ones to
death and see everything, your everything in your life.
Everything you've worked for in your life, come to nothingness.
And I was like, he said it with a smile on his face and I was
like, Damn yeah, that is pretty bad, pretty Sinister.
Yeah, he's just not a not a good guy all around let's put it.
Let's finish talking about him because in the very next episode
episode 8, the chief secretary kills him honestly, as much as I
didn't like him that like death scene got to me.
I cry. I was like, it is the emotion
that the Betrayal, like, the whole, like death, like speech.
Oh, like him, like fighting it. And I Like talking about how
betrayed he feels and I'm like, yeah my heart.
Why do I feel bad for you? Yeah yeah you feel satisfaction
that he's dying because he's just gone gone, completely mad
and you feel so much pity at the same time because his life could
have been different. I was just saying like earlier
like he seemed to have been gentle and somewhat carrying
toward the queen. Early in their marriage.
And he also did want to enact the tax, the landowners law
initially. And that just goes to show that
he was so twisted and different. By the end, there was just no
saving him and the scene is so devastatingly beautiful.
The way it's shot like throughout the show is just
beautiful cinematography but this scene what them silhouetted
against the beach and the waves and the overhead shots of them
like from Drone or helicopter or something?
Golden Light is just the right Vibe.
It's just heartbreaking and that he died the same way that he
killed. His little brother in episode 1.
It's just so, so sad and chief secretary is pulling through an
all-time performance here because it's almost as if the
king had asked to be killed. Mmm.
And he's doing it against his better judgment, right?
He's doing it because he wanted to die and that's not the case
at all. Chief secretary like took it
upon himself to just kill the king halfway through the show
and it's so sad and mournful, and especially when the OG King
says I wish you were my father as he's like trying to fight it
and talking about like all this. It just emotional.
Yeah. You could tell they were at one
point really close. So yes, yeah, he's I don't want
to do it but he knows that he has to do it.
It's all these things put together.
Just make it very important point in seen on a production
side. Did you catch what they did with
the score there? What did they do with the score
of the mining? Oh my God.
Okay, so so as he like die. So the way every episode was
ending at least on Netflix was like, the seemed like the
episode would. And, and then they would have
liked the the few like snapshots of like different parts of the
like thing, and they would have some score playing.
It would be different for most episodes.
I think to kind of fit the vibe. There was no music playing at
the end of that. So as he dies, it's all you hear
is the beach waves. And then when they start doing
the photos from earlier in the episode, it's just the beach
waves. I just I really I'm just really
oh my God, as far as I remember, that was the only episode.
They didn't have some sort of score playing with the photos.
It's it's done, right? You know what I'm saying?
Like it was just really well. Yeah, it was done really well
really well damn. Damn.
Okay. Now going back to Hassan episode
10 and 9 there's like a lot of love vowels exchanged between
the queen and Hassan. And in episode 10 he does like
the scavenger hunt for him because for her because he
leaves all these notes in the library and I of course you have
the Like I miss you, even when I'm looking at you, I miss you
line. They meet at the highest place
in the palace and they kiss and it's so sweet and she tells him
that she wants to have his child.
Listen. So it's she tells him that she's
ready to have his child or whatever because she had been of
course, denying him the entire time.
She doesn't know yet that it's Hassan the clown it ends up that
the queen dowager. has been poisoning the queen this whole
time for like a few months and she's now infertile Heartbroken
for her because that is like such a core part of what she's
obligated to do as Queen. But like it's part of any of ya.
Any other king would have had to Dethrone her, pretty much family
to go have it and he's like, no, it's like that's like this
matter to me. It's fine.
Yeah. Yeah.
And in fact, he goes out of his way to keep his secret so that
the court doesn't demand that she be dethroned because she
can't have any kids. I found this devastating Being
in the best way possible, if you get my drift because it was
proper drama and properly teased throughout the show so that when
it came upon us, we weren't like, oh my God, this came out
of nowhere. They're just pulling stuff out
of their hats. No, no it was, this was earned
and I really appreciated that not only did he stick by her but
he, it wasn't like a factor for him.
Like he it didn't affect his love for her at all.
It's just It makes me feel better and their communication
was excellent like throughout the rest of the the show.
And you know, she is dealing with not just a loss but it's a
loss for, you know, her identity.
And the reason why she's giving even in the palace and I love
how he just supports her unconditionally he's like, oh my
god, of course he's upset. Of course he wants to kill
everybody involved. Of course he goes and fights
with the queen dowager. Right after he finds out and
it's all, you know, yes, but it's never directed at her.
Yes. You know, it's never know,
victim blaming or what have you. There's nothing of that and it
just deepens their bond, really? Yeah, I think that's definitely
a turning point because she tried to keep it secret from him
too, and that's fine. Like her like made was like, no,
I'm gonna spill it be. That's my favorite thing is,
when he comes up to the baby's like tell me what the hell's
going on here? Why is the queen said?
She just drops she goes. By right underneath these look,
I'm so sorry but I'm sorry, I just have to be punished or
whatever the languages and there's like, not a ton the
Queen's, like had the secret for what?
Two hours. Yeah.
What's know, yeah, I liked it a lot.
I liked it. She finds his writing The
Secret, Gets Out, because she finds the scraps of paper that
he's been practicing the Chinese calligraphy on and it's just
that's when she leaves the palace.
She had A really tough reaction to him.
She's like, who the hell are? You don't touch me.
How dare you? And she has this really visceral
reaction II. Don't blame her.
But it's such a hard point because I'm like, I'd been like,
okay, I don't know who this guy is, but he's clearly better than
what I had. Yeah, because she starts like
trying to piece it together. Like, when were they switched?
Yeah. And she does realize when the
real king king. Came back and they had those
really bad like consummation night that never happened and
she's like, oh, that wasn't him, you know, she's realizing when.
Yeah I got I was in. I feel like I personally
probably would have like, maybe not in the best judgment just
been. Like, no, I'm fine with this.
Nearly getting raped guy, who actually treats me.
Nice, you know? Like, that's the thing is, like,
she is. And they were saying, the, the
chief secretary was saying that she's gonna dump you as soon as
she finds out who you are, because she is so upright and
thermal and she, she does end up against her tiny against her
guilty conscience, and she ends up doing like three days of
mourning for the, the OG King because Of course, she doesn't
even like this, like terrible to her and then she's like fully
onboard. She's like, okay, you're you're
the king, okay? I think it fits her character
while it just putting myself in the position.
I definitely would like no, this is fine.
Yeah, like I did then on board way sooner.
I would not have tried to throw myself off a cliff.
No. Damn, it was something about her
trying to run alive herself after that.
That was just like oh girl don't like come on.
He's a guy Under full team. Yeah.
Yeah, he was just lovely to you. Just accept the man and move on
the villain left State councillor catches Hassan in the
lie with the dagger around episode 12 13 and originally,
the left state councillor was like, oh yeah, you had, you had
this dagger given to you by the Ming and all that stuff.
Complete lap lie fabrication because it was gift from the
previous King to commemorate him, becoming the Crown Prince
whatever I loved. That's when he threw the two
coins at the yes let's say counselor and was like I am that
dog that cost two coins or whatever and reveals who's his
true identity to him and his full of like, Vigor and
confidence and like Swagger and you're just like, yeah, like
damn get it. I think I was so concerned with
what was going to happen next. I was I really like super like
into the moment even though it was a really cool moment.
But I was like, okay, you got a problem, why are you so chill
about it? It to where you can be like,
like this because well, I think he was just like, well, The Jig
Is up like when we gonna do? Yeah, let me come into it, like,
with a little bit of a Swagger and just own it, you know, own
up to it. I just, it would have put me
straight to panic. I'd have been like, oh no, I
would have been crying. Like, I'm not a person that if
someone yells at me, or start screaming at me for whatever
reason. I just start crying, babe.
You caught me in a lie. This is the second crying right
there. Don't tell me the real king
tried to so curious. You were forced to do this.
Yeah, I don't think I would have taken out the two coins from
them at the man who has my secret.
Anyway, what was brutal as well? Was that they killed her, dad,
the Queen's Dad after he was finally exonerated so close to
like a real reunions and it's taken away.
Oh my god. Um, But after that she Grieves,
it's terrible but he tip but Hassan takes her to the beach
and like episode 14. And I adore this conversation
that they have not just the cinematography, in the way, it's
just gorgeous, right? She says, I will engrave this
scenery on my heart so that I may come back to it.
Even after we return to the palace.
And he says, when spring comes, let's go see the flowers and
summer. We will stand in the rain
together and in the fall. How about we go Gathering?
And he's making plans, like, that's a year's time, right?
To get back to the winter weather.
Now at the beach and she says is much.
She's like, it seems like we're gonna be together for a while,
and it's just beautiful beautiful lines, very romantic
and it soothes her, you know. And it also kind of hints at the
ending right where they leave the palace because in all those
scenarios of them standing in the rain together, seeing the
Hours Gathering chestnuts, there's not really an
implication that there in the palace, when they do that, they
are free and outside of the restrictions of the palace.
And so I think that was a hint at the ending, which is there
free of the palace and all of the politicking that we had seen
throughout the entire show. So I really like that, that's
just so nice. I one of the top at things top
scenes in the show. Chief secretary throws it in the
queen. Dowager has faced a he killed
her son in very classic like put salt in an open wound to get a
confession out of somebody that details of how her poor innocent
son died and she just loses it. And what's sad to me is that the
root, the OG King was so blinded by paranoia, that he ordered the
killing of this innocent kid, but Hassan is the one that has
to pay the consequences for what his doppelganger did and I find
that really interesting. I don't know if there's anything
else you want to add to that because I feel like that's kind
of like I don't know. There's something about that.
That makes. Yeah no I mean I guess I hadn't
really thought about that too much but yeah like when it came
to the queen Dowager really her Vendetta was against the OG
queen king. So everything she did was
because of that. And how.
Yeah, he was at the legitimate heir to the throne and and like
that was her whole thing. So, Honestly her hatred towards
his son wasn't really wanted. It was weird just because he was
the wrong place wrong time. Hi.
Yeah, she and I like we were saying before how certain
characters had Shades of Grey. I feel like she has Shades of
Gray because she has every right to be upset and angry that her
son was killed like nevermind installing him on the throne.
He was straight up mert. Yeah.
And for no reason, obviously he had no Nothing no traitorous
thoughts or anything coming from like the 10 year old or
whatever. So I found that really
intriguing to think that she had reason she was.
Well, within reason to try and like overthrow Hassan even if he
was the was the kind of like wasn't even the real King, it's
just like you're representing pain to me, you've wronged me
the where you are and the chief secretary found this really
Important as well where he finally swears fealty to Hassan
and that he reveals that he held back, trusting him for fear that
the throne would corrupt him just like the OG King.
But after everything Hassan remains righteous and empathetic
and despite the chief secretary revealing that he unilaterally
killed the OG King Hassan is like.
Takes the blame. He's like, this is my fault too,
for because I wanted to be king and it obviously means that one
of us had to go. And it's when he says that you
just see it like the gears turning in the chief secretary's
head, and he just kneels down, he does.
And then him, and then Haase, first time, Austin kneels down
and that whole scene. Oh my gosh.
When Hassan kneels down I'm just like this is too perfect.
Like it's, it was such a moving moment of like mutual respect
for each other. And and finally coming to a real
understanding and Trust on both sides because there was a trust
on either side. Yeah that was a I loved it.
I really liked the secretary, I'm not gonna lie.
It was like I didn't fully understand everything with him
because I was like the, the one guy that died.
I'd before the show started that they kept mentioning and then
there was like that whole like group of people that they kept
meeting out in the woods and like yeah he was an extremist
leader we're inside. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah and they didn't I feel like they didn't do as good
of a job kind of like dealing with that whole subplot.
Right? Because he was basically
undercover. Yeah.
In the government still trying to do his best, which get the
agenda, but she was doing, but it was like they Really explain,
like, who these other people are.
Like, obviously like some sort of extremist but like, outside
of that I was like there's some guy who died here's book, like I
don't know. Like are you just common people
or like exiled or like I did. That was one of my issues with
the show I will say is like that whole like story arc just kind
of came and went as needed without excite agree.
Anything I agree. Yeah they did a bad job
explaining like why he was meeting these people in the
bamboo forest and Why they were mad at him?
I guess, he liked because of his part in the killing of their
leader. Yeah.
And then, he stayed basically in power in the government while
everyone else had to like, deal with it and like become peasants
and try and make ends meet some other way and live their lives
similar way. You know, they held it against
him. Yeah.
Like it sounded like a pretty valid what they did.
But no. Yeah, but it was like, I wish I
had some kind of like, Connection to it.
Or I could care about these random people because it would
make more sense. Why he's like, kneeling on the
ground trying to ask for forgiveness.
Okay. And I was like we can we can
skip the sea. Yeah I mean it just wasn't
written quite well. I think we're all ready towards
the end game episodes though, in our, in our talk and I'm not
sure if there's anything else you wanted to say about it.
Other than this part was satisfying to me, I had no
issues with Now the whole coup and then trying to work it out.
How is Hassan going to strategize his way out of this?
Without the chief secretary by his side, he's rising to the
occasion. He's playing things out.
They never find the treacherous letter and it gets thrown in
their faces at the assembly. All that stuff.
I found that fine perfectly a. Yeah, I think it's okay.
I think from not understanding kind of that time period in like
Korea too much of like oh sudden they keep meeting and they keep
telling each other what they're going to do.
I was like why why are you telling people what you're gonna
do? Like why does it take so long to
Dethrone the queen Dowager? Like there they even they in the
end gate of episodes they were like you're not technically
dethroned yet so you could just take the throne and she was like
you're right there was some of that where I was like okay how
long have they been talking about the throne in her?
They had ample time to just send her away.
She was banished to The West Wing.
Like I don't understand there was a little bit of like
questions there that were lingering.
I think the last thing that I have in my notes had to do with
Hassan having a one-on-one with the queen Dowager and it's a
culmination for me all his troubles with his confidence or
feeling inadequate or out of his depth in the palace are all gone
here. He's literally standing
toe-to-toe with her and there are there's no Rage or explosive
outbursts to make him seem lesser than her, they're on
equal. Playing fields and she's talking
all this shit about social status and Royal Blood.
And he's countering her with a full open heart and integrity,
talking about Behavior. How can you act this way?
And at one point, he says, like blood is all you have.
And he wins like he wins there, talk their argument or whatever.
In this tete-a-tete they have. And I was like, this is strong.
That kingly shit that he's doing here.
Then he just walks away. He's like by like no he's not
really worried that she called him there to kill him like he's
just there to buy time and show face and it's wonderful.
I really like that. Yeah that was definitely a good
team but yeah. Overall like the last like
ending like the last few episodes with like the coup and
everything it was like it was mostly well done.
I would say Yeah, yeah, I would agree.
Okay. And then we already talked about
the last 20 minutes, so we don't have to do that.
Um, is there any other God, any other notes that you have about
the crown clown? No, I think that was those
everything I just, I had like, these are just random like
comments or really funny like when um, when the secretary
stabs how soon to. So it's a mimic the scar from a
bro right bro, but it was so funny when it And and has to go.
So you're telling me not to run away or die and then why'd you
stab me? And I was like, that's such a
mood and then like my next note goes.
Oh, there is a reason right? Well, I'm confused about, I
guess. Why did he March him up this
Giant mountain only to like drag him nearly to the edge of the
cliff, and then stabbed him directly in the chest and give
this super dramatic line. Like the Clown house on this
bed, like the q word. Oh the king and for what like
you could have just done this somewhere else.
Like I don't know. It was it's for just a quick
Harry. Yeah.
It's for the nice. Yes, for the G.
You know, just to show not for any particular reason to be like
drag him up and he was like Breathing heavily heavily
breathing, he had sweat all over him, like it was a trek to get
up there, you know what I'm saying?
I think it was a bit of symbolism, really of like, I
think is where it comes from of, like, like the disclosure of
like your real life and like, starting a new life, we're gonna
more or less toss the old life off the off the cliff here.
I think that was the point of that.
If we're gonna do this here and also there's so many eyes in the
walls of the palace that I feel like Kim just stop.
And then they're like, it's just asking somebody to walk in right
at the wrong moment. Yeah, here's my thing too.
Is that they're often like Having important conversations
between one another revealing conversations between one
another. And I'm like so look the what
the walls are literally made of paper saying.
There's no way that there's nobody else that hears this and
knows your story and the secret. So it was kind of funny to me,
it's a recurring thing in socks with a like shut the doors.
Everyone leave the room and I'm like, they're standing right
outside the door. Like all of your everything's
aren't there. Yeah I it's a silly problem.
I have in like all of the historical dramas I watch but
there is the the one with the E Min-ho.
Faith. No, no, it's modern day.
Like palace stuff and I'm living.
I owe the king of tournament. Yes.
I would, they actually pointed
out in that one, they're like, because it's like somebody's
literally standing there and they're like, yeah.
I was listening on the other side of the wall, I was like,
thank you. I'm glad it's acknowledged
somewhere, right? It's literally a paper.
It's literally like you could poke a hole through that.
At and it'd make no difference anyway um I really appreciate
you coming on the show and talking for an extended length
of time on a very well done Saga.
Look, I think you can agree. It's pretty well done.
Despite your qualms with it and your low Hoops or for it.
I would still recommend it to people who like this type of
show because it's just not for me personally.
Gotcha. But I think it was really well
done. The acting was amazing.
The production is amazing. Yeah.
Even like the little Settle things with like the score, like
with the the episode, where the King dies and then it's just the
beach. Waves is all you here.
Stop like I'm getting emotional, it's just so good.
Well done. So no, I would still recommend
it, even though I personally wasn't super super into it fair
fair. I would definitely recommend it.
I think it's actually quite underrated because I just don't
see people talking about the crown clown, like, they should,
you know, people talking about hotel do Luna same year.
What are we doing? Why are we talking about the
crown clown? Like, come on anyway.
Yeah, thank you Alex, thank you so much for being able to watch
16 hours of television with me. I had so much fun.
Oh good. I'm so glad every day.
So it was like, I had so much fun.
I'm like, oh, that is music to my ears.
I love to hear it. Where can people find you
online? Alex.
Um, well, the podcast is on all the platforms and then I am on
Twitter and Instagram and I'm slowly getting it, a tick tock
but I don't know. Doing so it's just kind of
there. Yeah mostly on Instagram I think
at this point. So okay nice so follower at all.
Hull you been. Wow I'm so sorry at how you been
I have that right yeah okay perfect definitely give Alex a
follow. She's wonderful she will talk to
you about Kpop kdrama. Anything.
How you wave? She's a really great friend on
the social. So I again want to thank you so
much for coming on this humble podcast.
And I think that's it. That's a wrap for the crown
Cloud. That's been our show.
I'm Jessica and this has been the debacle Rambles podcast.