I'm Jessica and this is a TC presents, debbik.
A Rambles. Were a couple friends review,
Korean dramas, and today on a very emotional kind of crazy
episode. I'm acting.
It will be crazy. I have repeat guests Mina from
the Kpop bookshelf, podcast me know, girl, how are you good?
How are you Jesse survived? I survived.
I guess we should tell everybody that there was a hurricane this
week in Florida and hurricane Ian and thankfully, my family
and I are doing great. But Mina was basically in the
know because we had this podcast episode scheduled right smack in
the middle of the Ring. And we had to postpone, it was
crazy. Mina, thank you so much for
working with me on today's schedule.
This hurricane, no, no, I scheduled the hurricane and then
I realized later that I had the podcast.
And so, anyway, long story short, we're here, finally
everyone's good Nina. Thank you so much again, you've
been really gracious and making yourself available to do this
podcast at all, different kind of times.
And we're here, we're finally, we're ready to talk about mr.
Sunshine. Yeah.
Okay, so housekeeping if this is your first time listening, go
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Bill. Okay, I'm going to go ahead and
read all of the, my drama listen topsis.
And like, who's behind the camera.
Alright Mina. This is going to be a long one
because this is kind of a big cast.
Yeah, but feel free to jump in with whatever you've seen the
cast in before, or You know, the directors have done some big
things too, so we'll talk about it.
All right, my drama. Listen abscess mr.
Sunshine centers on a young boy, born into a house, servants
family. Who travels to the United States
during the 1871. She and me Yung Yola.
Aka the u.s. expedition to Korea.
He returns to his homeland later as a u.s. marine officer.
He meets and falls in love with an Aristocrats daughter at the
same time. He discovers a plot by Foreign
forces to colonize Korea. For some reason, this gives away
Nothing at all. Like it tells like the broad.
Yeah. But damn like yeah, doesn't
doesn't give anything away mr. Sunshine oh no, originally aired
from July to September 2018. It is a whopping 24 episodes
long and some episodes are longer than an hour.
It has been directed by two people young book.
He's directed ji-sun most recently and sweet home
dokkaebi. In the gray.
And lonely God, which we covered on the podcast.
He's directed to her descendants of the sun which we also covered
on the podcast. So, lots more like Dream.
High Dream High is like a running gag now in the show,
definitely in the same vein as yeah, no, it's like Gigi sohn
sweet home, guardian Greenlee. Godson is about that.
Dream, high like way down from like 2011.
Like that doesn't fit but okay. Um, book.
And then it's also directed co-directed by Jung Ji Hyo.
Owen and he's directed 25:21. Also starring confetti he's
directed, you are my spring, the king, Eternal Monarch, and
search www. So that makes two of his dramas
that we've reviewed for the podcast 25:21 and search www,
mr. Sunshine was written by the
effervescent Kim min-seok. She is a major name in the
screenwriter circles for kdramas because she's written the king
of turn them on our Guardian, the great and lowly God,
descendants of the Sun, the airs, Gentleman's Dignity,
Secret Garden and of course. Now mr.
Sunshine, which were talking about today.
Tons of all time kdramas have been penned by humans look.
So we're getting to our caste. Let's see if you've seen any of
these cast members before and let me know.
Okay, So EB on gun stars as captain Eugene Toy.
And he's done about 36 movies. He's mostly a movies guy and
he's been in movies. Like The Fortress from 2017,
Terminator Genisys from 2015, he was the T1000 in that for real.
I kid you not, I kid you not. He was in memories of the sword
from 2015, which I vividly? Remember watching that movie and
thinking, this is such an excellent movie.
Oh my God, I Believe this, they go online to see if people are
talking about memories of the sword and everyone's saying,
it's such a shit movie. And I was like, I literally I it
was a blow because I thought it was like, really good and like
the acting from Kim gone, because Kim goeun, of course,
isn't it? Yeah, it's just fantastic.
And then EG nose. Also in it from the red sleeve,
like, people just fawning over Egypt.
No. Now, in 2015, I was watching
members who started out. I was like, oh my God.
Anyway, so he's in that, he's also in masquerade from 2012.
L've and that's the inspiration for the show.
The Crown clown, which will be covering next on the podcast.
If this is going to be released in order.
That's the next row that we cover on the podcast.
And of course he begun won best actor at the dead young film
awards for his role in masquerade and lots of other
movies. Like I saw the devil a couple of
g.i., Joe movies hero from 07 joint security area from 2000.
Big movies. Iris Joy security.
Oh is a huge. Yeah, huge movie huge.
He's got about twenty six credits for TV, including course
most recently. Our Blues.
He did squid game as he was a frontman and Squid game which we
also covered on the podcast. If you want to scroll back in
your podcast feed, you can hear all about squid game.
I first saw a begun in Iris. Do you remember Iris?
Vaguely or like I heard about, I think I've ever watched it.
Okay, this I'm busy reading. Oh, I'm sorry.
Ya know, for those who don't know, or did listen to our novel
era episode, where Mina first was introduced to debauch
audience, she runs a bookshelf party, like, it's all about Kpop
books and K, media through books.
So, she's reading all the time, even though you are like, I
assume, you're sometimes watching kdrama, but Anyway, um,
iris is was so huge. They did a movie afterward, you
know, like that era in kdrama where they were, like, do a
kdrama or even a Jai drama. And then all of a sudden they do
a movie on it. That is what happened with Iris.
It was amazing. Okay, okay.
Yeah. Anyway so he won best security
area so that's like on my list. Perfect.
I see here. Okay, yeah, so it is on mine
too. I don't think I've seen her if I
have, I don't remember. So his co-star.
I came Teddy. Plays.
Go fishing and she's been in only six movies, but I hate
pause for a second because I heard characters go Asian, I
wanted you to call this episode. I hope that's not a spoiler,
just cut it. If it is three men and a little
icky, she maybe she know that's true.
Hello, like you? She that's valid like, that's
valid. No, no no, whoa, talk action and
we will talk about the name of mr.
Sunshine, at some point in this episode's for sure.
That's a valid point. I know I'm relieving it.
Okay, so she's been in six movies, including alien noise,
which I did a patreon review for space Troopers, little little
Forest the handmaiden, which is a park geun Suk movie.
She won best new actress at the blue dragon film Awards, and
2016, big deal, of course, everyone knows her from 25:21
from 2022 and she won best actress and most popular actress
at the effects on Arts Awards. So proud that she actually did
that because it's a big deal and she deserved it.
We're going to go really fast. Watch the hand.
Maiden. No.
So look, I've said this a couple of times at the park at.
I'm scared of watching the am made it.
Why it's? So this is a genre it I just say
Jean, you so naked. Yes.
Ari. I don't know, she's super naked.
It's a psychosexual lesbian Thriller, and it's a period.
Right. Right, right.
And that that combination, that like Sub sub genre completely?
I like, I avoid it because it scares me shitless, like I like
cannot deal with it. She's so good at and I don't
like not saying you should watch it, but it it's just generally.
If you are not scared of it yeah should watch it because she's
excellent people. Don't amazing.
Remember she's in there. Completely naked.
It's a psychosexual lesbian Thriller.
Yeah, yeah it's serious. And you know parktronic directed
old boy? Yes.
So like seven, you do you watch old boy?
You can watch this and you can like, you know, you know what
I'm saying? I see what you're saying and it
is spooky. Season or this episode will air
around spooky season October. And I hope, one day that I will
bring myself to watch the handmade and because it's not,
like, I don't want to watch it, I'm just afraid to watch it.
Like, I think it's one of those rods just sit there afterwards,
and just feel changed field inside versus being psycho
thriller like it's not like, jump-scares know.
I know, I know logically. I said psycho station and I'm
telling you I got a handle on it and I'm scared.
Scared to go in that room. Okay, so we're bringing up the
rear. You yong-seok plays good on me
and he has been in a few movies like Royal Tailor.
Beauty inside. Yei monster boy, werewolf boy.
He's a villain in a werewolf. Boy, when my favorite K movies
of all time architecture 101, which is a big thing when it
came out to, and then, of course, he was most recently in
Narco Saints from Netflix, this is going into his TV work and I
think everyone knows him from either reply. 294 or Hospital
playlist, 1 and 2 which we've covered Hospital playlist. 1 on
the podcast, if you want to scroll back in your podcast
being and listen to that, lastly we have Kim min-jung as he no
go. Do you might have seen her most
recently in the devil judge from 20 21 and we have Beyond Johan
as Kim we song and he you might have seen him before and me
saying incomplete, life from 24. She watched me saying, no, I did
it, I did. And I thought he was, he's kind
of similar to the care. Has your but I really love him,
okay? I really love him even though
he's like I'm noxious you know okay but like all right we're on
the other side of this maybe that's just my type.
Never mind. Oh my God Amina.
Oh man this post-hurricane man. I am in a mood.
All right. Mina what did you think of mr.
Sunshine. I thought honestly so it was
definitely quite long at times dragging it times.
And I'm trying to give too many spoilers There's but, you know,
it is about like, pre-colonial, Korea, preach about Japanese
colonization of Korea. But Japan's, like, kind of
already there. And I found it very strange.
How there is, like, of course, you know, if you saw Guardian,
if you saw the other works, that the writers have done the
directors of done, you know, there's gonna be a romance with
their, like Revolution and then they're like romance, another,
like Revolution and that like romance.
And I'm like, what is happening? And I felt like it wasn't very
seamless or like, it didn't make sense because it would be like
revolutionary, like, guerrilla warfare for like a while and
then I'd be like, we're in love. It's just But aside from that,
it's visually stunning. There's these people are acting
their pants off and there's so many layers and topics that we
were discussing before I started recording about, like different
topics about Korean Society, the time and Korean history.
So it's worth watching, but there was definitely some kind
of flaws. I think.
What did you think? Hmm.
Okay, so I will first tell you why I avoided mr.
Sunshine for years because this came out in 2018, Dean and I
remember it popping up. I vividly remember, it popping
up on Netflix and going. Oh wow, it's like a period piece
and it's like it looks turn of the century.
But then they have this girl salon home book and like what's
the deal? Like, I don't really get the
time period. And then I saw the way that the
promo shots were framing them, a Bianca and confetti, and I was
like, oh, is this supposed to be like, a romance and then I what
I saw. Was age Gap.
I saw pure age Gap and I was like, that looks like a giant
age Gap and I have said, this was your, I'm not a big fan of
like Chasm age, gaps, in my entertainment, and in my
kdramas, so I avoided it. I was like, I wasn't like
getting the vibe of it and then I wasn't a fan of the age Gap.
So I avoid it like the plague to be fair to myself from 2018 Eve,
Gun was 48 years old when he started.
No, yes up for real born in 1970, that 100%, 48 years old
King, Teddy was 28 years old. That is a 20 year age Gap.
So I was reading the tea leaves right on that one.
But, you know, I would say is get, this may be by the bar is
low for me, but I was like, at least she's not like 20 or like
19 or, you know, how they sometimes do that in cage.
Like, yeah, it's the big age Gap, but will react Tighter, and
this one of the directors, of course, had a classic age Gap
romance with the goblin that was classic, you know, 400 years,
400 years in the context of the show.
And then I think it was another, like not 20.
I think it was either 20 or a little less than in the Years
between game going and kong-kong you.
Anyway, that's a whole nother thing.
But anyway, they love it evidently because it's here.
Goblin was 2016. Mr. Sunshine is 2018.
So two years later they probably thinks this is like a side note
about the writer but I feel like maybe they are kind of
describing to like some Purity concept of like these virginal
youthful untouched like sheltered ladies and then these
like kind of manly Then right? Because you're a really manly by
the time, you're like 48 for sure or 450 or however old you
are bringing up some valid points here, Mina already.
So just to get my thoughts out of the way I found that this
show was really difficult to get into.
For me, I was not hooked right away.
I didn't find this was binge worthy, at all.
I've sometimes thought that the length of the episodes was
really a hindrance for me. Which I've said, so many times
on the podcast, I am a strict hour-long person.
Yeah. So when I started the show was
very hesitant to like it. And again, I kind of grasp the
time period very quickly. Episode 1 was very assaulting on
the senses and very difficult to understand like who is who
because they introduced like 50 people in one episode.
So many, so many people and the conflict at large like the
political conflict and the issues that are going on in
Korea at the time. And I felt that that was a lot
to take in as I can. And I have seen likes a goose.
Seeing a ton of kdramas and I'm still like, who the hell am I
looking at here? Like, oh, how are these people
related? I was getting very confused.
So I had to write down everything and now I deleted
because I know what's going on. But for me from the first
episode and me to the last episode night and day
difference, I thought the show was a masterpiece.
I love this show was well worth at least one watch from kdrama
Watchers. I didn't really consider it a
kdrama at the end of the day. I felt like this was pressed.
Uh television that I was watching this could have easily
been shown on like Apple TV like Pachinko was here in the states
or it could have been shown on like HBO or something lives like
a special you know, show it was absolutely riveting towards the
end, the endgame episodes which lasted not one or two episodes.
It was something like six episodes that felt like the
third Act of the show was end game and those were amazing.
Best part of the show. I agree with.
So a lot of stuff happening. Not a payoff, a lot of payoff.
Exactly. That was the word that I had in
my head to a lot of it was pay off and I really appreciate that
in the writing. I thought the writing knew that
they were planting Easter eggs, knew that they were planting
check-offs guns left and right lines and scenes and
cinematography. And I could now graffiti that
was repeated at the end of the show that felt like closure felt
like, oh my God, this was what I was waiting for.
This was why I wanted to watch the show, I think a lot of the
political stuff was still very dense and yeah, you know, we can
try and get into it and parse some of it out, especially some
of the nuances of the culture back then which you did some
research on. I'm really excited to get into
it but honestly it is a Shakespearean tragedy.
So a lot of people I think in the cage, right?
Okay. Trauma Community will not watch
a kdrama if Has a sad ending. I'm sorry to say right out the
gate mr. Sunshine has only violence only.
Bloodshed only said things for you.
And in fact they warn you early on in the show.
There is no hope that these characters are going to make it
to the end unscathed. Happy alive, all these things,
they're constantly like they finally credit history and that
was already staler from the job. That is the other thing is that
history is not on their side. And if you do anything remotely
about, what happens to Korea and the amount of times that they
were invaded and you know, what happens in Pachinko Pachinko is
a great kind of teaser for what it leads up to the events and
Pachinko. I guess I should say and how it
informs identity going forward and further Generations down the
line and just tensions between Korea and Japan, Korea and
China, Korea and the u.s. all these Things.
Really? I don't want to say it was well
done, but I guess it was at least interesting to watch
especially in the latter episodes.
Yeah, I have a thought, but maybe I'll save it for after
spoilers. Oh yeah, okay.
All right, after spiky, said cinematography 110% amazing so
much budget, went into this, so many humbly, tails, the
costumes, the street, Only the make up the scenery giant stuff.
He says structure architectural structures.
Yeah the trolley many, the trolley, so many extras, just in
a scene when I say extras, I mean like literal people in a
scene, it's explosives. Fire pyro stunts, gunfire
warship, slow motion action, which requires another like set
of cinematography skills, Flags waving around a lot of stuff,
burning to the ground during water.
Filming. Yes.
Underwater filming. So much money went into this and
you feel it. It's just dripping with
Hollywood type budget. Yeah, that's why I agreed to do.
You say it's like Prestige watching us.
I just like, like you and the beginning.
I was like struggling to get into it and to like feel invest
in them for like a while and I don't think for me it was the
age Gap is just like because there are so doomed from the
jump like I care. Is this end of just Doom over
the whole show over every Character.
You just I mean I don't know how someone can go through this and
be like, I'm waiting for that episode 15.
Like they wrap everything else and then 16 we get a wedding.
Get this look XYZ? No, no, let's say they had a
beach scene. What else do you want from them?
Yes, exactly. They went to the beach.
Damn it. We had a pig EIEIO.
Yeah, which wasn't easy. And like the 1800's they
literally. How are you getting to the beach
from Seoul? Is back for days.
I think they said it's like, we're not gonna We're not gonna
talk about how you spend days writing to them.
And multiple couples went to the beach and one couple to not have
a horse. No one couple is just okay,
we'll talk about it. That just piggyback all the way.
Oh yeah, they're just gonna hoof it anyway.
Yeah, a great sense if I could knock Rafi and the age Gap was a
was a kind of a deal breaker, but I will say that towards the
end. I I was invested in them for
sure. We're talking about e begun and
confettis characters, they obviously have I don't want to
say a star-crossed lovers relationship but I guess it was
the star-crossed lovers relationship.
Yeah, it was just like everything was under duress in
the gut in the gods. Just straight is a sucker punch
throughout the whole show. Did you buy them as a couple?
Actually, I don't know. I kept thinking that.
I was like, wait why do they like each other?
Like, I almost didn't get it but then I but then it did like
something about it. Did make sense along the way it
was a bit of a slow burn for me, Lisa where I didn't understand
initially why, either them care about the other one.
But then I was like, okay like they like I do think that some
chemistry or something that seemed magnetic amongst them and
maybe it's just their Stellar acting that there's just such
good actors but they did have definitely I mean she's so good
in everything, you know. Yeah.
So So, I agree with you. I think there's something that
wasn't written there on the page that they somehow made work on
screen. And that is a, well said, that's
all I can account for extremely accurate.
Is because there was like apples.
I know what's not anything? They're like they had certain
crazy high intensity moments between them.
But as far as like, why do you like each other?
I don't know. Yeah.
You know, right? They just kind of gravitate
towards each other like two sides of a magnet and that's all
there is to. It was very believable.
Mmm. Yeah.
What did you think of their secondary leads?
And she has a couple, I know a couple.
She just. Yeah.
Well because if you think about like the character of Hina.
Yeah, you know, and I feel like she also it was like something
like, obviously, like, she's like, Like, not romantic, but
like a sidekick or something. Like, she's I encounter with the
like, you know, the samurai, the like the I can I say that's like
we can say you can say yeah he's okay.
He song and then Eugene and that you have the three of the three
men. The little achy, she talking
about and then you have Hina who and then you also have her very
faithful enslaved. People Just lightly
romanticized, I feel like, but yeah.
But yeah, they're her servants. And all of that was like her
orbit of people like the Gunner and all that.
But there was a her orbit and she had so many good folks
around her and she was the pull and the draw of all these people
in a way, maybe less. So for Hina.
But somewhat. And and it was very like I said
believable, like it just seemed like you could sense, why
there's so much like loyalty towards her wiser so much
interest in her. Why is everyone like rally
around her all the time? At what?
Because sometimes you want your drama with some things?
That supposed to be happening and you're just like, why did
why can't you not like ditch that person or like, why are you
still hung up on that person? But for confettis acting, or
portrayal of it was so just overall, you know, Magna?
Yeah, yeah. She was a great Rally Point for
everybody. And you kind of unin neatly
understood why everyone was trying to save her and make her
survive and like have her and door and all this stuff while
everyone else was kind of like it just is not the not the word.
Expendable I guess I should say hmmm not disposable Expendable.
Um, yeah, I see Jimmy Lord. So a lot of stuff happening it
with the themes and the topics that we want to cover and we can
introduce some of them. Now, I did want to touch really
fast because you mentioned, he now, that character there are
really strong female characters in this show and I admire that
about it. I love how they're kicking ass
and taking names. I love how they're integral
part. Of the plot and how they are not
passive at all. They're not passive Observer
said the actress who played Hina didn't get any kind of award for
this as far as I know, ideas for this role.
And she was, oh my God, she was amazing.
Yeah, what happened? What happened?
To Kim Min Jong? I don't know.
I don't know why she's not a better than either because I was
looking at the stuff that she had done it.
I was like, where did home girl go?
Come on, not that much there too, right?
Yeah. No, mmm.
I'm confused about that, too. She was perfect fabulous.
The Wardrobe days, put on her the turn of the century gowns,
Stunning. She was serving in those
outfits. Oh my God, amazing.
She looks so good. And it was interesting because
she was wearing kimono because she was like, a Japanese
national she was wearing, like, maybe not handbook, exactly.
But kind or sometimes maybe she was, she was wearing western
clothes of the times, like late 1800's, early 1900's, I was like
1910s. Like bustling behind, you know,
behind her and stuff like that. And like kind of waistcoats or
what do they call those little coats and she just looked so
good, little fascinator, hats. And I don't No, sometimes people
who are not from a culture or a timeframe wearing, those things,
look a little awkward. They look a little cosplay,
through no fault of their own, but she was awaring, Anna.
No, it's okay. We're not wearing her.
She was wearing the glove, right?
Yeah, right. It looks so good.
And then her acting, of course, and then her athleticism.
And yeah, her little looks a little, like little glances,
just her little nose scrunch. Yeah, give that a 10 scrunch.
I'm so glad you mentioned that. I don't have that in my notes,
that was amazing. She really brought something to
the show that was necessarily missing.
I think that you needed another rallying point besides confettis
character. And she is so charismatic and
kind of easy to root for in certain moments.
She a lot of the characters are not 100% good, A lot of the
characters have Shades of Grey are not good, not bad.
Just kind of going with the flow changing allegiances throughout
the show. And not necessarily an emphasis
on someone who's straight evil for evil cyclic, people have
reasons for doing things, even the traders in the show have
reasons for doing what they're doing.
So, the Back stories were so rich.
So rich for some, for the major characters, right?
And some of them, we never some people might have Baxter's.
Like I was like, what's the translators deal?
Like Eugene's low? Personal translator guy like
what's his story or like, you know, like some of the people I
wanted more information. An honor like the woman who like
takes the ferry over to their side and to the other Mountain.
Yeah. Yeah, you know she's an Archer
like what was her dealer like there's so many more characters
that they were so interesting. I don't know what other word to
use for interesting, but in make compelling, it was like what
else is going on there? Because and the fact that you
did know some people's Back stories to a great amount of
detail. It was really like, oh my God
there's so much more like layers upon layers upon layers.
Yeah it's like an onion. This shows like an onion truly
and so I did want to Got, oh my God, I'm gonna eat inside.
I wanted to give attention to the female empowerment kind of
side of it and I think we need to segue into just identity and
Korean - as another theme throughout the show because
there are so many characters who are grappling with being Korean
American or Korean Japanese or Japanese Korean.
Like, whatever the case is, they are not just one thing and they
have so much Trauma in their backstory that they feel like
they need to abandon their home country, home culture, and
adopt. Another way of life or risk,
just dying like in Korea, right? The self-preservation the
survival ship that the reasons behind some of their stuff was.
So again, compelling. And also it was definitely
struck a nerve. I think of like I don't know.
Like how do you survive all this stuff?
Especially if for Hyun. I think she was a woman on top
of all of it, right? Like she also has all these
identity issues and, you know, yeah, trauma and everything
going around. Yeah, going on with her, I
should say. Yeah, we can definitely talk
about their individual traumas later in the spoiler section,
but I feel like the patriotism in the show was kind of like, if
it was a graph, it was like kind of low at the beginning and kind
of low is saying Something because the show is all about
patriotism in a way. And then towards the later
episodes, it just skyrockets. It's just an exponential growth
towards the end and you feel, I mean, by the end, I was like,
man, fuck Japan, like not going to lie, I'm not gonna lie.
I was like, okay, but they dichotomy totally okay.
So well not okay, this economy. I mean like they let me to Japan
again. I want to, I want to visit Japan
again. Please don't know.
But To say that about this with the dichotomy between this
intense amount of patriotism. Nationalism, the whole show
overall is very nationalistic towards Korea which obviously
makes sense. And yeah, there's this sense of
like these unjust Japanese powers or sometimes American
powers or sometimes like whoever Russia and Chinese and everybody
was all up in Korea's Grill, I guess.
But what was interesting was like this dichotomy of this
patriotism nationalism and the fact that some people don't have
that, right? Like someone's country could
quote-unquote betray them. And you kind of belong, you
belong, and you don't belong to the same time.
That was like, I think a running theme for multiple characters.
Of course, the main one being Eugene, but multiple characters
where it's like you belong, you don't belong and then going back
to the survivorship and trying to assimilate sort of, was like
the fact that so many characters are trilingual builing you all,
you know, again like with you know, wearing all she she can
fit into anything like a glove. Like, as far as like identity
and I even talked about the clothes in this point, but when
she's a, you know, she's speaking French, she's speaking.
Speaking Japanese just speaking Korean.
Like, like she just had it going on like, in all different ways
because she had to. And it was a very interesting
because even though so nationalistic and patriotic and
all the stuff in real, he's trying to stir up feelings for
like, you know, Korea is a liberated country.
It also have these moments where it's like actually some people
are not that like thrill about Korea, you know, some people
like, you know, Korea sucks. So yeah because of this stuff
that they were going through and what what Justice or Injustice
is they experienced, right? It's interesting.
To see Korea portrayed in such a positive light as far as like
nationalistic pride of Sauron throughout the show.
But then you also see the absolute chaos behind the scenes
of what like people are actively selling the country out and
people who should be on the countryside are on the
country's. Payroll are selling the country
out. People who are trampled on and
lowborn are low in society, are the ones who are rising up.
And rebelling against Korea. So it's like a recreation pan of
their own making, you know, Yeah, they've sown that see lead
rebelling against Korea, are rebelling against Japan, or
Bonneau rebelling against Korea because I totally mean to say
like some characters again, like trauma have been just treated.
So poorly by those in higher power in Korea that when they
gain some semblance of power throughout the show, they come
back with a vengeance. It's like karma for Korea as a
whole to height. No, you're right.
Your own citizens. Try and break it apart.
You know, which is very intense, like, some characters.
Like what Korea screwed anyway. So like, what's might as well be
me the product data to it? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think that, wow, we could talk a lot about identity.
Korean is patriotism and all that too.
But I think we touched on one of the last themes, which is
classism and the slave economy and the discrimination and
prejudice against low boards throughout the show, and how
that affects the characters. And how they have to work
through that throughout the show.
Right. They have to live within that
like Realm. Yeah, the hierarchy.
Yeah, a lot of characters come back to Korea with a lot of
prestige, or a lot of power, especially Eugene.
And once they start talking about their history, where they
came from, what their family is there, look down upon Eugene is
looked down upon because he comes from the slave class and
it is so deep-rooted the classism over there or the case
system. However, Were you want to put
it? It is unbelievable to me how
some characters have experienced so much goodness and benefited
from these characters that come from low Origins, and I put that
in other words, in quotation, mark Lowe Origins.
And then as soon as they find out, someone is not who they
thought they were there. Like, oh my God, I have to
rethink my entire, like, perception of you have to say
this aspect made me feel like this show.
Also, very pro-american in a way.
Yes, Eugene was the one who had upward Mobility out of everybody
who actually achieved it on, you know, more than you know really
or more than go dong Mei. He's the one who like achieves
it and it's because he moved to America and becomes he rise up.
The US Military and becomes a marine and so he is like a top
up there officer part of the American legation when he gets
to Soul or hunting or things with the yeah, hon song.
I was in name is Sol before it was.
So yeah. Correct.
So in hon song he's like and it's so funny how we kind of
like kind of teachers between like I know Korean I speak
Korean but I'm not as I'm like I'm not afraid.
He's like I'm American like he just keeps like going back and
forth because it's such a it's not like really black and white,
her like this side or that side for him, just go back to
Identity for second with, you know, we were moving past but
before him it's it was like a little bit past the, but his
yeah he himself can never forget his quote unquote lowborn status
Is that he originally had that's like part of his like motivation
for a lot of things in the chip on the show.
Mama. Exactly.
And then at the same time, he commands all this power and he
walks around, looking all good and stuff and his suit and
everyone's like, oh my God, who is that?
And even like, even just from looking at him, when they're
like, that guy looks Korean but they can everyone can talk.
That is not a Korean guy. Like he is, he is the Foreigner.
He's not crazy, looks Korean. That's where look.
So, Chris mentality is completely changed.
When he comes back to Korea, because he doesn't, he doesn't
back down. He's got like the American like,
Spirit about him, which is weird.
So everybody in the show because they're like, you look and sound
Korean, but you are not Korean because you would not have
talked to me that way if you were Korean.
And I would argue to, he doesn't even with Japanese soldiers and
stuff, because they don't go into how much or time he spent
in Japan are like, why he's so fluent in Japan?
Japanese. I don't think they did unless I
missed it, but he also has the same kind of like, you know,
he's just America that's actually American.
Like, you just have this like Like Swag, yeah about it.
When you're talking in Japanese or they're addressing Japanese
people addressing Korean people. He's just like kind of similarly
like like what are you gonna do to me?
Exactly, like I'm American, you cannot touch me.
That is the attitude that he has throughout the show, and it
really irks a lot of characters and they call him out on it.
They're like, well, you must be American, which is kind of funny
to stereotypical entitled. Yes.
To watch the It on screen from EPO and then who he's doing
great great. He's nailing to me, it's like as
an American. I'm like yeah, man, that's it,
you got it, you know. I know this is like he was he
would smile. So broadly and so toothy, as
soon as he encountered other American soldiers, he's like,
hey, like to everyone and I was like, that's so American is like
Miley and bears. Like I felt a little called out
like that. How I run around the world like
girls. Like, Bro.
Do I just smile at everybody? Well I'm from Miami is
different. We might not smile at everybody,
kind of mean, but it's okay. Yeah, I really like, you know,
like that whole like effervescence that stereotypical
effervescence because, you know, I lived for many years in New
York and they're not smiling everybody.
There be just like that that that aspect of it was so
embarrassed, so much bravado coming from him at times and
yeah, I kind of I feel it's active.
I feel a certain type of way, seeing it on screen portrayed by
you being good, but it's great. I do think that the
american-ness of the show is something that was taking me
aback as well and how they perceived America.
I don't think anyone here, you know, us to our under any
delusions, like America sucks and it's also very great like in
equal measure and our history is just as terrible as everybody
else's country. And at one point, Like I can
remember which character says it's like year.
You also believe him in imperialism because of Puerto
Rico Guam, the Philippines like a names all of these
territories. Well, I don't even Korea, we
still did this day have huge military bases in Korea.
So, right. Well, I mean, effectively, like,
did we call an Eis? It maybe not, but we are there.
We're definitely there. Are there more?
It's still ongoing. But anyway, because they needed
evidently, um, yeah, but maybe not every Korean person thrilled
about that. Even to this day and I totally
get that. I totally get that.
Yeah, how a foot hold in so many different places that I don't
think Americans even realize and yeah, it's it is like that
imperialism that, I think it was a Japanese Colonel that was
talking about it. He was like, I am no different
than you are. Like we're here to do the same
thing essentially that you did in all these other places.
Yeah, which is crazy. Like to me, it's like, you know,
pot calling the kettle, black, you know, No, no one is good in
this show. Everyone is all kinds of Shades
of Grey anyway. Yeah, I feel like we ventured a
little bit into spoiler territory.
So, I think we can break for spoilers.
What would you give this show out of five Soju bottles?
Okay. It's hard because it was so
beautiful and stunning but then sometimes I like wasn't feeling
it and then sometimes I feel like I was so engrossed in,
like, the political aspects. I didn't care what the Romantic
aspect sometimes. I was like, wait, what happened
to romance, you know, or whatever?
So I would say, three out of five so Jews because of that.
But but like you said, like everything you said, still
stands, like definitely worthwhile.
Yeah. When the show ended, I was like,
oh my God, this is, I was writing a high, right?
This is a 5 out of 5. G.
Oh my God, it's so good. Now, I'm sitting here talking
about it and I'm kind of like, taking a step back.
I feel like it's probably a four out of five show four out of
five Soju bottles for me because again, so many positives great
production, amazing stunning production, but is it?
My favorite story? Did I have a full grasp of
everything that was going on? I feel like they were I was
playing 20 chess games at the same time instead of one chess
game. That's what it felt like to
follow this. Yeah, well, I was like, oh I was
here, we're here. Oh, this is romance chess.
Bored. Oh, this is the secondary,
Romans chessboard, like, oh, we're doing like all these
things. And that is a little bit
frustrating at the end of the day because what what did you
like about the show? Was that everything was just a
couple of chess boards? Was it all the chess boards.
So I feel like it's a 4 out of 5.
I think if you watch it one more time because this was my second
viewing and you may like a just a little bit or at least have a
better focus on like what you did or didn't like about it
because yeah, it was a lot to take in At once, it's so like
hyper stimulating, cuz you're like, what is happening?
And then the second time you watch, you're like, oh yeah, you
know, I get it. Like, for me at least it made a
lot more sense as I bent. All right?
We're going to get into spoilers right after this.
You want to come in. Okay, we're on the other side of
spoilers. We're going to spoil their shit
out on mr. Sunshine right now and
everything is on the table, all the chess boards are available.
To us to talk about. So Mina, I think you wanted to
start with the historical aspect of the show and go into some of
your research, because I, yes, I think this is going to help
ground as a little bit both in our discussion and for the
people who watch it, but don't remember or wash and don't
really know what they all watched.
So just clear that I'm not like an expert in Korean history or
like a Korean studies Professor or something.
But I did read a few things. One of the main things are roses
book called Korea, history by Eugene, why park?
That's where most of my information.
Images from. And then I'll also send you some
links that you can post for other articles and stuff if you
guys are interested. So first I want to talk about
was just the class system, we were talking about earlier so
the aristocracy the Choson area era I should say was called the
Young bun. So aristocracy was young but
that's like lady a she and you became young men through your
family lineage. So if your ancestors were young
Bond you inherited that title. You were young but as well.
However, if a young man produced a child with, Enslaved person.
This child would inherit the enslaved, parents status so they
could not ever be young but aristocracy those of us growing
up in the United States or learned US History.
It's a little bit similar to in that sense of it at least a
similar to u.s. slavery, right? So young bun, mainly where
landowners, and that land was farmed for food and was worked
by the enslaved. People.
And a lot of young men were government officials or Scholars
of ISM, which is what we saw. Lady issuance fought
grandfather. I believe he was like making her
study Confucian Confucius. Yeah.
Below young Ben were the Chun in class, and I could be Miss
pressing all this, so sorry, but they were kind of in between
young bun and commoners and a lot of young Chilean I should
say, a lot of chicken, were lower level Military Officers,
or other government office workers.
So, including those interpreters who work for the government,
such as the ones we saw translating for the King, on the
show, I believe would be considered chunin and Below
Champion were commoners. Yeah, so commoners were often,
Hindi crafters and Merchants. So, the baker, the Potter, the
metalsmith characters in the show would probably be That are
commoners. So then at the very bottom of
the social hierarchy, we have the so-called lowborn, most of
which were enslaved people or as they're called in Korean the no
be, and no be could be purchased or inherited through young buns
family. But unlike slavery, here in the
US, no be were ethnically Korean.
So didn't have those like racial and ethnic differences as you
might have guessed is from watching the show that it's like
people in the US had so it was not uncommon for it was not
uncommon for. Or no be to run away and and
then just get wage paying jobs or just try and make a living in
other ways. And there were slave catchers,
who have to go find them paid for by the young bright.
And I'm not gonna get into like the details of like how slavery
and Korea sort of ended, it took some time.
It was a bit. Gradual wasn't like any
emancipation like we had here in the US, but it basically, what
it boils down to is a lot of, like, money stuff, as with
everything, you know, having no be was cost costly having to pay
catchers for them was also, Very costly.
And after a while, I was just like, you know what?
We may as well just higher wage workers to work early and right,
so that was one thing I wanted to mention.
Yeah, it seems like in the show, it is, on the, I guess it's
taking place just after this sort of grand emancipation of
slaves in Korea. And now those slave hunters and
people that work for the young bonds are able to leave able to
work for a wage for the same family or what have you but
yeah. As in 1894, I believe these.
When they formally abolished AC and then a lot of it is still.
Yes, a lot of characters were referencing.
Like it's a new world, you know. There is no more young Bond and
no be or but they're kind of still.
Was it just through like for example, the butcher Butcher
discrimination, so the Google made was a butcher's son and we
see in the beginning to show when I still like the early
1800s, when no be were still thing, the butcher's are treated
so badly. So poorly Really looked down
upon and that really continues into Japanese Occupation zones
like the 30s, 1932 20s and 30s. So that continued and one kind
of notable thing about nobody who are more or less emancipated
to certain extent because it was like, seeing with America to
like, people were emancipated. But then you still had people
who are working on farms still and working as labourers still
have with really reduced wages. But in Korea, one thing I
noticed I was interesting different from the US.
I think, was that they had this sort of freedom to Kind of adopt
a new identity. So a lot of people would take
would who became emancipated or left the nobody system adopted
surnames of aristocratic, I'm asked this.
So like him, we park. Yeah.
Everybody else. Like noble families last names.
Yeah. And they wanted to be associated
with the young bongs these great noble families.
And so they just be like, oh yeah, I'm a toy.
Oh yeah, I'm Ali. Yeah.
Oh, I'll and they just during this time period.
There was a lot of like, people just taking last names for the
first time because people didn't have last names.
Only the Young fans had right, needs is crazy.
And then one other thing I want to mention kind of related to
women and likely d--ation situation was that during chosen
era, they were really into neo-confucianism and this like
hold because they didn't have as much in the choreo or Sheila
dynasties or in this exact way where women suddenly had to
switch with your Noble or like lady Asian.
You had to be personally, had to be married so that you could
have a son. So could carry on the your name,
your lineage or inheritance you're young bun status and And
if you didn't have a son, like, for example, lady issues,
grandfather didn't have one cause she was refused and get
married and her her aunt's never had any sons.
So you could adopt your brother's son or son of a cousin
on your father's side and make them an air.
But illegitimate Sons could not be heirs in because his new
neo-confucianism daughters just could not have property rights
or inheritance rights as women but they did have to cover their
faces so you see Lady issue and traveling her little palanquin.
I don't know perhaps that properly, that little like I
said palanquins and then I could be wrong palanquin right?
Yeah, and then that like head covering, it looks like it looks
like a skirt. Looks like the start of a
handbook is called the tsukishima, which is, which I
could, my parents are so get Chima.
So team has skirt and Koreans. It's like a scarf or they
actually it's formatted. Meaning, they cut a little bit
shorter and stuff. So it's really for, as like a
headdress of, yeah, it looks a little, like, a look ahead
Korean so. So especially if you're a noble
woman, you cannot be seen by men and then also the top not worn
by men in joseon Era and the beginning, but until they like
move into this Western modernization, had to do with
Confucian filial people. Piety.
So you are prohibited from tampering with your body because
that you got that body from your parents age like preserve its to
honor your parents and your parents gave you your hair and
all this stuff, so you can't cut it and that becomes a major kind
of player later in the show, when she gets her care, try
that. And also, when she gets her hair
chopped off, and also the fact, but as the Korea's modernizing,
right, they're starting to so the King, which we see in the
show can call John. He was someone who's trying to
intrude like really cooperate, the West make Korea, more
modern, he introduced electricity, what you see?
Sort of in the show he as you see like he's this artist adopt
kind of its of his Royal robes. He's wearing like Western can I
have some? Yeah a lot of the guys start
chopping off their Top Knots intentionally because they're
sort of moving this direction. Some people really displeased
with King Kong's, trying to like you know make treaties with like
different countries specially like Germany, England America.
He was trying really hard because a lot of those treaties
were kind of imbalance and So Korea.
Can I have the underhand? Yeah, you know, they have more
power. They more things.
The tree is he had with Japan. Was you can't.
Member if he had made them or someone else made them, it was
stuff like Japan. Could explore as much rice as
they wanted and never paid a tariff.
Native never paid. A tax is sometimes led to things
like rice George's for Koreans and so they're like having to
re-import back their own rice. That was expert in Japan like
that is something that was persisting for decades after
this time period. Because I think we leave off in
the show in like nineteen. Oh, seven or eight or something
and Pachinko takes place decades later.
And I mean they're talking about like rice is only for the
Japanese white rice, looks the commoner people just don't eat
rice. They eat barley rice which is
like a Spore type of rice and they're eating that in this show
to their like, eating raw barbarous because they can't
freaking create a fire because they'll be find out.
So they're eating literally raw barley wheat or rice and it's
insane to see some of these things crop up.
And another Prestige television show like Pachinko, which I keep
bringing up and go. It's because we did a deep dive
on the podcast. They go.
So if you want to listen to that course grow back.
But honestly, it is very interesting to hear all of the
history that you just explained. And I love that you went into
the, the kind of I think up not upheaval but like the changes
that were happening during this time period and the type of
environment that we're in like the classism and why is it so
like such a thing? It's because that was the thing
back then. You know it's like you doing a
civil war movie, you're going to talk about like the north versus
South, you know what I'm saying? Yes.
Like, that's the thing that really brings me to that point
of Eugene having this upper Mobility that until they like
That even though they were like emancipate, adjust.
It was a band. I should say.
It was banned for them. There to be, no be anymore.
It wasn't like, instantaneous, like we're all free like you
hasn't like when I figure out what you're going to do, what's
your new hustle and like, right? And some people stayed because
it's like well this is familiar and that's what I know.
So my child leave and like we had a good family owned and they
never beat you and they never do.
Yeah. So like you did you stay?
Yeah, things like that happened here in America with when cyber
slavery was ended as well. It was kind of like you have to
create a whole new life for yourself.
Like, what do you do? So I think it's very believable
that Ashen radiation. Still has like her maids and her
servants around her and they just are super loyal to her
because they evidently worked for a very good family and he
treated him well and he you know, did really good things
toward the end of the show, which were groundbreaking.
He was giving them property literally just giving them his
property based on like seniority.
Essentially, if you worked for me, for 30 years, you can have
more property. Of my property.
If you work for me for 20 years, you get this plot of land.
Like it was very interesting to see how he ended up kind of
righting the wrongs of his class by just being good to his
servants. Well, this idea of like almost
reparations comes up a lot because at first, like I was
saying in the beginning, I feel like the servants added towards
and like they're just kind of like literal bowing and scraping
tool ADHD and was a little irking.
Yes. Because like what is this?
Like this is so annoying but then Eugene basically called rat
is like hey just like I was no be like when he finally
confesses that he was one when he originally was he was
originally quote-unquote lowborn and he's like you know, your
servants, your homegrown, your whole way there.
Those people saying to her, I forgot but they They are, they
can't do the things that I couldn't do when I was no be,
you know, they are and then she's having this like
realization moment, I think, in he song her fiance, when he is
like realizing like, oh my God, my family screwed over Eugene's
family killed, his parents, and he's starting to like try and
make. Also, I think very much feel
like reparations, like he finds the guy who got beat because his
watch was broken and he's like, you know, doing all these
things. And so these people have these,
these nobility people are having these Enlightenment moments,
which I like I said that's like what part of the payoff thing we
like, yeah. Yeah.
Look you wanna see that but it's also like so interesting that
they are showing this because it does it seem as nationalistic as
it's like hey we were having our own problems to like we weren't
perfect before, a Japanese showed up and then they ruined
everything and now you know, like wasn't anything.
Yeah. The narrative, some dramas maybe
show her some some depictions of stuff show but uh-huh.
Right. Yeah, I think I realized this go
for it. No, I'm just going to finish.
But just by saying, like this, the fact that people were having
these epiphanies in the show, the characters of like, oh my
gosh, like I contributed to this terrible system of Oppression
and we're trying to free and liberate Korea but like we have
oppression in Korea, Jenny way, you know, fry whole classes of
people. Right was was definitely like
part of that payoff. Like yeah.
Yeah I love when he confronts her and finally says what his
Origins are and she's stunned into silence and he basically
challenges her Her. And he says, who are you fucking
fighting for? Like is it for everybody?
Or is it just for the young Bond?
Are you trying to free Korea from all of these Western
influences and from Japan? The all terrible Japan for just
your class or is it for everyone?
Is it for the butcher's for me for the slaves.
You know what is this new world that you're trying to create is
a just to benefit you and I love how an episode like 10 or 11.
She says my world came crumbling down what a thing to say.
She just never considered his Origins.
She says I just felt weird. Is that I just assumed you were
Young Band like a nobleman? Yeah.
But before that, it was dull met
as a child. Right?
Who like wakes her up a little bit in the palanquins.
Break, is he? He is like escaping his Your
situation and she sees him all like kind of looking
blood-streaked and she say so no questions asked in my.
Yeah. And then once he gets in, he's
like you're just a fool Rich fool who like it lives in
comfort. And what the hell do you know?
Like, it's it, that was like, her first taste of like Reality
Bites. Like, you know, like, oh my gosh
slapped with this truth bomb. And so that kind of, she says
later, like that stayed with like that.
Haunted me, my whole, yes, whatever.
The last thing she says to him and and he's like, well good.
Then yeah whatever okay good I changed our world view but I
know he meant it also was good. You just you thought of me
because he was in love with her he right?
He meant it as like you remember me?
Like it was weird because weird but it did have like it has
multiple purposes in the end, I guess for her, as like, her
character development, like she had that first taste of it and
then she had Eugene, you know, tell yourself, I think even
meeting. He know, you know.
Yeah you do. Yeah I heard I just are holding,
how could he know? And she didn't know all of maybe
he knows. Baggage.
But I think she knew like, okay like you're hustling you're out
here. You have like a story and she's
wrestling. Wait I've been couched in like a
luxury my whole life and I wine every single day about it you
know. Yeah she's bitching for nothing
and not that she's bitching. The whole show is just like
little things here and there but you're like, shut up like
everyone at some point. Says, Sheehan in so many words.
Like shut up. You're an old cabin like you
live a great life and just so many people were like, don't do
this. Just go back to your, like,
little Yeah. People were like dunk it
involved. It's very serious.
It's so dangerous. Just go back to your cushy life
and she's always like, no, I don't want to and continues on
her. Merry suicidal way.
She says, I one point I thought I was different from other
Nobles, but I wasn't the cause I fought for was nothing but
ironic, which I was like, damn, that sucks to suck because she
was fine. She thought she was fighting for
something. Good.
Should even know the whole story should know who was calling the
shots in the Righteous army or nothing.
She was just Flying Blind and then she realizes like, what am
I even fighting for? Who am I fighting for?
And it like threw her for a loop.
It is and I do think the backstory of her parents being
kind of the first righteous Army.
Yeah, like whatever that pose a call that then but like
revolutionaries or whatever. And so she was both.
I don't know, I couldn't tell what her motivations where I let
me know what you think, but it was it like carry on this mantle
of her parents as a coal deal. Or was she this just this page?
Periodic for some reason even though like she did nothing.
She didn't she wanted for nothing.
So, like, she's fighting for this.
Like what her luxury life like, I know it's not that, but let
her jump at first, I was struggling to really.
Yes, tell me I'm going to jump in here because I really feel
like it's because she was so educated.
Like her grandfather doted on her and educated Her Way, Beyond
what a woman should have been educated for during that time
period. And then she started, she just
has a rebellious Spirit about her.
I feel And so, she started reading the newspaper.
He didn't want her to read the newspaper.
He didn't want her to get up to date on current events.
He didn't water to know what's going on in the government and
she was extremely interested in that and she it kind of like lit
a fire in her because, you know, when they tell you not to do
something, first of all, you're getting as a teenager going to
want to do it even now, I'm kind of like, well, I'll do it anyway
and she definitely had a little bit of that in her, but also,
she just felt such a moral responsibility, even as a child,
saving the butcher, son dong Mei.
Yeah, she thought she knew it was the right thing to do.
She had a great moral compass. And you know, it's only later
that people start like, talking about, like, how you're more her
moral compass, isn't that all that pointing North?
So, yeah, well, that's my fans. Ironically, she was so like, you
know, on her high horse about like, you know, I'm not like the
other Nobles but then she's like bring my penguin and then it's
like like bring that letter to me or whatever it is.
She's doing all that. Like, nobilities just very hot
here. Like yeah, super snobby.
It's not because she's even the fact that she is willing to
marry he song just like I know for her as a bit hypothetical
because he's away for so long. He's very conveniently just like
not showing all right to marry her and he was but she was still
she and no point was like I'm not really like I'm until like
he showed up in her face and was like oh crap I got pound.
Okay. But until then she's just like
yeah then it's almost like yeah okay I'll marry whatever and
then like I found it interesting that she didn't fight that
earlier but maybe that's me, just putting hairs and being
nitpicky about this. You're right, I agree.
With that, that she seemed to be okay with marrying.
Who song when she would like 10 years ago, I guess when she was
20, or maybe 19 years old, or like, yeah, she was like 19 and
that's when they got engaged and then he like fucked off to
Japan. Which is why that I was like for
him. He like why did he go away?
And not come back. Because he was.
So lonely, had all these like, kind of superficial seem like
vacuous relationships in Japan, was just like smoking, drinking
gambling reading like, right? Like itself, important things,
and then like, not coming back to Korea.
He was so lonely, because like I felt his loneliness and I was
like, why you just come here and marry her sooner.
When you were finished rather than just like, extending your
school or whatever he was doing in Japan like a guy?
I think he was also in since the same way that she was rebelling.
She was rebelling against his own family, which he felt like
was such a burden. His family was such a burden on
him. Everything they did cost
something someone else their livelihood or their lives and
so, So I feel like he truly felt burdened by the responsibilities
of the family and somehow innately knew that everybody in
his family was doing something wrong or had wrong to others.
And I think he was just just avoiding like just deny that I
avoiding in Japan, having a good time in Japan, trying to fill
this void with all this crap that you mentioned like studying
for 10 years and women and just being a romantic.
Take this. Is this what she says to him as
well? Kim Teddy's character says to
me, Bianca and like, oh, we're living in the Romantic Era.
People tell me. We're living in the Romantic Era
and it's very true for whose tongues character because he's
living a romantic fantasy, you know what he likes.
He loves useless things, you know.
Yeah, he loves uses to keep say that this is like x-ray looks
the star in the moon's like whatever he was saying stars in
the moons and the flowers and all this shit like he's just a
hippie. And he comes back finally.
And for some reason, he thinks not to talk to his family.
First, he goes to visit his fiance with whom.
He's never seen in his life before.
Yeah. But he's like, I love him and
he's ready love at first sight because he sees her, and he's
like, perfect. I need that flower in my life
for the rest of my life. And he regret staying away for
so long. Because she's just so stunning,
right? She's beautiful.
And what she is, she is no doubt, but I I feel you on
Nitpicks though, I'm feeling on, like, what is this motivation?
And, like, for 10 years or 10 years?
It is not a short amount of time that these people are rebelling
in their way, their own ways, right?
Yeah, I have to go back to the acting with of the guy who
played he song like his ability, because he had so much more
like, people just like he's a dummy which you kind of was, but
then he kind of like had more going on if he like, put any
effort into like rubbing and she brings us together.
Warming up thought he kind of like had like because when he
would you agree to be like hahaha I am.
He's yeah everybody was and and then he went, he could like turn
that stuff off and on when he was like, trying to
strategically help everybody else.
He was also the way he was initially submitted by issuing.
He was smitten with dong Mei smitten with Eugene and I was
like, he just is on with everybody.
Like he is like a rabbit's. He wanted his ready to be their
friends. He's ready to throw down as much
as he could. He loves Hina like he loved
everybody. And he's like this is my Crew
and he kind of made them. The interesting thing is that he
made them the glue kind of or he was the glue to make them like a
crew because otherwise like Hina did have her pull and then is
she had her pull but otherwise like the real glue.
I think, to my opinion anyway, was he saw his character and I
think the acting was so good where he seems both like, like
tacky vacuous. Kind of like a Playboy who just
like you want to dismiss. Yeah he's like no I'm her.
Actually, I'm really so lonely and I'm really hurt and I have
all these like Deep Emotions. That is a little hard for him to
like Express pinpoint and Say, but he has them, and the way
they liked his character develops was also, of course.
Well written. But his acting I thought was
again. He, this guy just might be my
type and his like, you know, but I like to see his old y'all.
Yeah. Like he's like this
stereotypical pretty boy from a rich family and in kdrama like
these guys you you end up rooting for them because they're
so charming and they have everything going for them and he
liked by all accounts, he should have ended.
With actions character because he's formatted in kdrama land.
Like, oh, he sacrificed her? That's like part of his
preparations. Like, think he was on.
He's like, you know what? I'll give that up.
I don't understand like obviously I can understand him
giving her up because she didn't love him.
Right? And he's somehow very honorable
and was like, yeah, it's so I'm not going to marry someone who
doesn't want me. Cool.
Yeah, but then it also veered into that reparation, sing where
he was like Well, if she loves Eve young'uns character, If he,
if she loves Eugene and my family has done everything wrong
to Eugene and taking everything from him.
Like, how am I going to take her from him?
Right. So I feel kind of conflicted
about like why he let her go because I don't necessarily want
to be a reparations thing. I wanted to be just like a good
man. I know at one point, he says to
Eugene himself when he was like, oh you do this or he said
something about like, oh you let her go or whatever, like you're
not following her. And he's like, not because they
you, he's like, she wants to be a free woman.
She was live her own life and I did appreciate that.
He, the said to me, at least Express to Eugene was definitely
out of pettiness. Like, he's are not going to
admit that, it's for you. And though, I did feel like I
Like it was all. So for him it or like the whole
I did like the reparations, they had a component and that's but
the fact that he was like, she wants to live her life and
literally, no one will let her do that.
Like a grandfather won't, everyone's hired as put down her
gun and like, start being a lady.
Like he's like, I'm gonna let her do what she wants to do.
Like, I respected that so much. Maybe I'm giving him too much
credit. The bar is low.
Yeah, look, we can talk about the patriarchy for a second
because her life is basically in Revolt of the patriarchy and it
At 16. I think she really does try and
go against like hundreds of years of patriarchy when she
just refuses to get married at all.
Like she tells her Jeep. Ah, I always say Jeep on side of
Grandpa bass, tells her Jeep on that.
She's just not going to get married at all.
Nobody, and he's consistently wanted her to take a husband.
So she's protected and that he can be her Shields and all this
stuff. And I love that.
She says that she's trained for 10 years so she doesn't Need a
shield at all. All she wants is to give her
heart to the man. She loves no marriage and I was
like that is groundbreaking even today like, yeah, it is such a
noble intention. She kind of like, does this
whole speech with her Grandpa because she needs no shallow or
stereotypical security from a man, she just wants the luxury
of love affection and it's really beautiful.
She does not as a character follow through.
You on that because she chooses the righteous cause does not
give in to look this romantic ideal of just loving a man for
loving a man and ultimately Eugene's character Bales her out
at the end of the movie at movie.
Look at me at the end of the movie, at the end of the show,
he is like helping her to no end and he sells her at one point.
Like, you cannot. You have not repaid me at all
for, literally everything that I've done for you.
The least that you can do is stay with me.
Like, stay by my side, of course.
Like, that's the tried-and-true kdrama line.
Like, just stay by my side and she doesn't, she's like, no, in
fact, she tries to break up with him.
Sorry. Yeah, I wish that it was a
little more on the Romantic side than on the like righteous cause
side because it really falters her like assault on patriarchy,
because she ends up meeting, Every guy in her life.
In the k-drama fanfic version of this show.
For me, I want to feel like it was Hina Kudo meeting in a coup.
Do some what made her at least a say these things about like,
wanting to, like not. Every marry anyone and tend to
like, you know, F the patriarchy and all this kind of stuff
because Hina was married. Played every dude like a fiddle,
he don't like she's so manipulate used her.
Yeah. She's her feminine wiles for
like as a West. Truly a weapon and like she
Maintain this like hehe. I'm like a beautiful.
Like I'm like a, the owner of this hotel and she held his like
autonomy and I again in this like fanfic version of this, in
my mind I want to say she was inspired by her or something
about meeting her change something for her but yeah I
didn't really follow through come like she's married to Korea
she's and she's married to the cost.
My God. Exactly she ends up basically
marrying the cause and marrying her nationalism and the country.
And at the The end. The final shot is literally of
her with the Korean flag and that's the love of her life
essentially. Okay.
So I know that I need to like interrupted say is, can we just
give props to the child actors in this freaking show because I
do goodly shit, kid was amazing? Yes.
Yeah. Did you?
Oh my God, have you watched them every when the Camellia blues at
all? Yes.
Oh my God. Yes.
So the kids that little boy, kid, Phil you Jim, my God, and
we covered the show, the pocket. Yeah, when The Chameleons peel,
gu bill goes back guys, young Yugi.
That's so good. His crying dr.
Cries, oh my God. You just want to baking again,
he does so well. That is actor.
Kim, kang-hyun Moon and amazing as people go and as young
Eugene. Yeah, he's great.
I haven't watched is hitting racket, boys, or something.
I haven't watched on you. Maybe I don't know how to watch.
Rocco Boise. Like an adolescent now.
Yeah. Yeah, I think he's in that.
But anyway, he is great as a child actor.
So I'm sure he'll be will keep seeing him in the future.
Absolutely. Oh my God.
But speaking of cameos, the descendants of the Sun.
S couple are Kim, Teddy's, parents like that.
In that extended flashback sequence in episode 10.
Oh yeah. Bingo.
And what's her face Lord, I forgot her name but they yes yes
yeah forgotten but I love Yesterday.
Oh my God. From my Liberation notes.
She's so good. She's amazing.
Yes, yes. Yes.
I'll get her nails done now. So what did you think of that
Cameo? And honestly, they kind of
mildly reference. Oh, it's Kim.
Do on can do one and gives you all do mildly reference.
How, you know, in a few in a future Korea with peace and like
Independence or whatever, they will find each other again, like
they were talking about your right and I was right.
Yeah, definitely definitely. It was is okay.
Had to but had to pit. Yeah, but yeah man.
But yeah the kid actors were doing such a great job that the
kid who played Little goo goo dong Mei, like had his similar
somehow like a child version Vibe of his and was so good.
The little like, what do me? Who helped at the American
legation? Was a door.
Oh my God. I know.
Oh my God, but that End of the show.
They show have grown up. Kim Min.
Jae play literally salutes like Eugene's grave.
I'm like a raven, I'm like, oh my God, this shot everything.
Oh my God, another SNL sketch, it had everything.
Anyway, samurais says, I will die.
If you like actually develop a little Script.
Oh shit. Anyway, that is awesome.
He's from Delhi and cocky Prince I believe.
And yeah, he plays the, a little errand boy, all grown up at the
very end of the day. Yeah, scene of the movie, Kyle
more, the teenage Soldier, there's more like descendants of
the sun people in here because, oh, yeah, yep, that guy.
Yep, is the bad guy kept like, yes, yes.
I remember girls accent, he like was going from like Southern.
Hey Yugi. Like that's like some I don't
know his ex was like all over the place is like what is going
on with your eyes? Like I know you speak English
like what's happening right now? Blue content anymore was in my
in my head. I think they did.
And I found it. So, because isn't he Korean like
a korean-american? Yeah.
Name is. Yeah.
So I was like, David McInnis. David Magee is open.
They were trying to play it off like you just like Caucasian
American. Yeah.
And I was like there. No one said we talked about his
Karina so never never. These characters are creating
characters, not green, buddy, is God?
Here it is. And then I think, I think you're
right about the context in which were really throwing me off.
Like I was very confused. Everybody at first, when you
first, they kept coming on screen, those accent was all
over the place is like we're in America.
He's supposed to be, he's American, but he's obviously is
in the entertainment industry and Korea Wikipedia, since since
1999, he's been working in Korea.
But yeah, he's American Youth and See.
Korean like, I think, for this character thought he was trying
to, he's like sometimes I'm from South Carolina, Yugi, and then
second well. Okay, so this I don't know, sir,
British or something David McInnis is from Wisconsin, Green
Bay, Wisconsin. And I think we talked about this
on the descendants of the sun episode because he, he's from
Wisconsin. And I just think that the accent
was a little shaky because sometimes the Mid-Atlantic
because sometimes he sounded like he like had yeah but it was
weird or a transient because sometimes he was like he had
that lot that's sing-songy thing going on too and I was like,
that's weird. We are on the same page, but
David McKenna is I did you think that he was going to be the bad
guy at the end? I thought I did think he was
going to either do something and inadvertently or like
intentionally to screw the up yeast.
I thought that he was like a spy or something and leaking
information to the Japanese that he was a traitor at some Never
happened, right? Purely good guy.
Never happened. I was surprised.
Yeah. So surprised I, I wanted to talk
real quick about the joonyoung the military academy officer who
was like, ready to go to work today for career, ready to kill
Japan today, like, yeah, because his, he's also a younger actor,
not a child one, maybe. But like his development to was
and his acting the last couple episodes where he's like on the
train with them and yeah, he's like really, you know, He was so
good and I don't know what else he's in, but he is super good.
So Props to that guy, I just want to shout them out because
also looking his Asian Wiki profile.
Like he he is 30 now and went looking for him when he's 30.
And what? What was the last minute?
Beautiful hair, beautiful hair dye, beautiful haired.
Look at my buddy. Asian Wiki is.
It is Dong Dong Yuan John-Boy here.
I see em. I see em.
Okay, and your life. So sorry, I'm purely shallow and
any kind of beauty? I will have to like note-taking.
Okay, well, it's Harry about Beauties about okay, no bun.
No. Now you you hit a nerve here
because you're talking about beautiful people and beautiful
hair and shit and like, you yong-seok as good on me.
Yeah, I only saw, I only saw reply 1994, we played like the
dorkiest baseball player on the planet.
To me, that's not the best reply.
The worst of the Rebecca, worst worst reply, but I watched the
whole thing partially because the him cause I was like what
he's fun. He was putting off waves of just
sexy in the show. Yeah and I could not deal with
it. I was like I love you beyond
Godlike as much as the next person but like yeah who is the
real lead here? It's good on.
Yes. 100 was acting his ass off. His say he had this thing with
the clothes going on. Same Like the girl who played,
you know, Kudo he just was the samurai robes.
Very? I mean, it got like kind of
annoying to be like blood splattered for him all the time,
but he just his like smirking, his like just strutting around
just uh, oh good. Yeah, good.
Oh my God. Questionable facial hair.
All those facial hair. I think those are like the
things I put on him every morning.
I'm pretty sure. I don't think you grew the thing
and I was looking closely. It's like The bottom half under
his chin, all that was real and then just the stash was fake.
I thought I saw him talk about it.
Some point, I do remember, he's at least somewhere, maybe wasn't
a show that he's talking about like having to get them like
individually hair, individual hairs placed on him at before
every shoot it took like a hundred years worms like get
into that like just visual. Oh my god well I because the
hair you know it was like I think away.
Yeah. The hair was definitely a way
they yeah. Yeah.
I didn't have him looking wretched out in the streets.
But yo, so look episode 5, I think it is, they're picking up
shit off the floor in some I don't know like a shop or
something and he her pink skirts brushes over his hand.
It was so beautifully shot. Beautiful, and yeah.
Sensual and it had like the vibe of like a hand shot in a period
piece drama. Like Olive mr.
Darcy and Pride, and Prejudice. Like it has that like bye-bye,
was like, this is for the ladies in the house, you know what I'm
saying? Yeah, this is not for the guys,
the guys don't understand. This, it's for the lip of the
women and I mean, and then he grabs her skirt, her reaction to
her like that, because She's like oh my God.
Like you know, oh my God Hand me, it was like my skirt right
now, like 45 feet away from my body, but still gets a scandal
scandalous. And he keeps saying he's not
doing anything even though he's clearly clutching her skirt and
he won't let the skirt go. And I just haven't really caught
his hand or something. No, I don't think it cut his
hair. Like we have like a paper cut on
his hand. I thought.
Oh man. But he was like, I mean, in my
nose, I have. What is going on?
What does this mean? And the closest these three
dudes are after her. Yeah, thereafter.
He would like have these moments with her.
They're just, I couldn't deal with that one moment in episode
5 and the closing shot of that episode was then inside the
building, it's like a freeze frame image of them and it's
almost like they're not moving out, because it's in slow
motion. The rain is falling in, slow,
motion is absolutely beautiful, gorgeous 10 out of 10, him with
every girl, like his stuff with, you know, who Her final
confession. I was slayed like, oh my God, I
was like, this could, this could have this, I would have went
either way, it had. He like ended up somehow having
a real romantic moment with that issue.
Nor with Unicode. Oh, it would've been a win for
everyone involved because it was, he's just was Central and
all that with everyone. Like all the ladies and like,
he's six, like pure in the vein sex, the the woman with mutism
that he had as like his sidekick almost.
Oh my God, which is the color beneath the shadow shaman.
Girl who like yes doing tarot cards.
Oh, what he would walk in on Hina Kudos baths.
Right now, my his brain is like flashing images of the show.
Like every minute I was having a cow over suck.
Oh man. Yeah.
So yo and episode 10 or 11, I can remember which one it is.
He now Kuno. Kudo is riding the trolley at
night and it's snowing. So she holds she holds out her
hand to catch the falling snow and he grabs her.
Hand and whisks her off the trolley and like pure kdrama
form. And just the visuals were
stunning, there left standing like super close to one another
and then she pushed, she pulls a gun on him and she says be
careful when you take a lady's hand, we don't always carry
rainbows and sunshine and I was like that's my girl.
Well, yeah, your Vibes. If you thought the mean romance
was Vibes, the second Dairy thing that don't matter and
because they were more of a kindred spirit.
I feel like I say gone through the same kinds of shit like, hey
know, like uh, yeah, yes. Also.
When even the moment where he cuts issues Harry, who that was
brutal, it was awful. It wouldn't have been so brutal
if all that wasn't happening that whole time like it wouldn't
have the same impact. I feel that active especially
for us as modern viewers like you.
Like yeah, I don't want anyone cut my hair like that little the
street but like, because they knew each other it was I think a
little bit softened and because you know him he's sort of like
that it was kind of like but then like I think like the
build-up of like just all the tenseness around them all the
time, the tension around them all the time.
And then he like whips out his sword and cuts her hair was
extra shocking because of that. So I think he just did it.
Everyone acting their pants off in the show and that was great.
Such horrible, you know what I mean?
Like, in the moment you did that.
Yeah, the impact. I'm gonna skip to the end.
And with dong Mei and Hina. Because, what does that episode
23? Oh my God, so she dies, right?
It is brutal. He takes her.
This is where we coming back to like the transportation issue.
Like they were essentially in Seoul, they end up at the beach,
he took it to the beach close to where I think you back because
you can't walk piggybacks. You cannot walk.
She's dead weight. Close to where her mother is
buried. She confesses that Eugene is not
the one in her heart anymore and hasn't been for a long time.
She says, she's been waiting for a man who loves another woman
and that that love made him go mad and I was like, bitch salus,
she says the area, this is like, the beach would be beautiful and
snow told him to come visit her when it snows and that, of
course, they flashed back to that moment that I just talked
about with. And he grabs her off of the
trolley in the snow, and they're just like Rosen and dime.
And Ah, then she tells him, like, you know, don't come right
away live a little longer. It's awful.
They had such a wonderful unfulfilled love and ultimately,
she died a patriot something that she was kind of wrestling
with the whole show. You know, what, her identity,
what did you think of one that bathtub scene where she gets out
of the bath and she's covered in scars?
I mean, her backstory of like getting married off by your dick
head, down to some, like, douchebag, probably who's like,
your link a sec. I think he was old.
He dies. Yeah.
Super super old dies. You get everything by just
de-facto your his widow and then but obviously she was so like
we're like she was so upset and hurt that her dad to the sir.
She's always been seeing her mother.
And I really want to know more about why she has her mother so
much like, other than obvious reasons, you know, like what
happened to her mother or like whatever her mother might have
endured as the wife of her crazy father and he'll on like this,
Yeah, you want to go and then the scars all over her.
Like her ability to be like I speak Japanese, I speak French,
I speak English? I speak Korean, you know, like
all of that, like, all that survival.
So, like what was she doing in Japan?
Like, I mean I shouldn't but she doing it with the fencing in
France and it was just that guy and like sussing out.
Who's a spy, and just having this like, one eye on everything
at her hotel. Like knowing all the Shady
business, but actually she didn't acting so innocent like
she had so much going on and then even that's why I feel like
she's really more Kindred Spirits with it.
Don't lay because he also went through, God knows what in
Japan, and then, you know, like we know his childhood and then
we skip all of his whole life in Japan.
And now he's in Korea, started around.
But we missed so many. There's so many gas for both of
them, but they've both been feel like hindered and they know,
like, I absolutely feel the same way that they're soul mates.
Yeah, he's so distracted by a scene.
It's like so dumb. Oh my goodness.
She herself was also. So that's a thing.
The end when gone mad eyes, I'm fully expecting him to have
visions of Pina, as he is surpassing on.
I got the same thing. He doesn't, he has visions of a
fishing again, and I'm like, oh my God.
So the ends, he never let go like, why not though, because I
get like, you see she saved her life and that was like, it was
pivotal moment in your life. Life-size childhood and like
this. This I maybe it's like hope for
him. This nobility didn't treat him
like absolute shit. So like looks like, oh my God,
right? But it was.
Yeah, I totally feel like baffling by.
The end is baffling by the end, and he did just imprint on a
mission. Essentially, there was no, like,
nobody else brutal even though he's very affected when he dies.
It's not what I thought when he knows same.
Yeah, also, what about the Betrayal from the lady the show?
The lady with the mutism mutism like her betrayal of him by
selling him out, they lead lady has Japan.
Did you know, if you remember that so lady, she goes Japan of
Care at her Mission and then she sends a telegram because she
just doesn't want Google made to die.
Saving her. What she obviously is like,
prepared to do. And he is so pissed at her.
And yeah, then the whole like his little faction of the black
dragon Society falls apart. The motion is to call it in a
show. Yeah.
Is that the translation from motion black Joe?
Oh, so there was a real society called black dragon society that
kind of roamed around Korea as part of like a filly to with
Japan and they were sort of like, maybe like Yakuza.
I don't know if that kind of assumed that they were Yakuza
and I think at one point I read a translation, of course it was
on Netflix but it was a real of the but I don't know.
Yeah. I think that you would consider
like to compared to Modern Day within gakuto's similar like
stuff going on similar like interactions or attract.
Yeah. But they were as a real thing
called black dragon society that existed and they actually I
think possibly released when it aired in Korea, they call them
the black dragon society and then they change the name to
music in society because it was to actually, the writers got
accused of being too pro-japanese, and thing like a
specifically, Google has made his character of being like
somebody who was justified in hating Korea to death you know
like so. That's okay.
So that's the thing about the complaint of it being
pro-japanese is because the movie, the movie, why do I keep
saying the movie? It's just cinematic.
It's just so cinematic. I think it's a movie.
Yeah. Yes, so no, the show does a
great job of painting Korea in a negative light and a positive
light. And you have the running theme
of permeate. I was teacher Snowdrop episode
and there's a blue. There was a blue house petition
for this show as well because I know you mentioned that for your
Snowdrop. So there was a blue house
petition saying, okay, so I have a quote here.
It says, on July 16th. This is from South China Morning
Post. I had this quote and July 16th.
The petition appeared on the tongues web Ade, which is Blue
House website calling on the government to prevent factual
errors and period dramas the petition stated quote Historical
facts are definite perpetrators and victims chosen was not
depicted as a victim of colonization, but instead one
that invited it guangmei. His character is a villain but
by showing reasons he had to join the project has
organization. His actions have been Justified
and quote. So so this is like as a show is
airing and then they had to like kind of rewrite.
They rewrote his whole character to be a little, like a moron,
the Korean side or like helping Korea because this was the way
it was starting to go people getting pissed in Korea.
So they sent this petition the writers rewrote it they change
black dragon society and motion study, which is a fictional I
think I got you. Wow, that is so interesting
because that's my favorite thing of the show is like I guess the
characters have every reason to hate Korea.
You know, Korea's painted in a bad light because of their
history, some some Korean netizens were upset because
they're like, why are you showing that Korea had no
electricity tell like someone else brought it in?
I mean, because that's what happened.
Like sorry. Like you know some people right?
We're getting upset over kind of silly things sillier things, you
know, I'm Brigitte because there are they may be themselves are
super patriotic and I understand like you don't want to create a
come across, some kind like Backwoods that were true.
Yeah. But sure but I mean,
historically speaking of that I think this is one thing.
Israel fiction. That's interesting.
And again going back to Snowdrop thing for a minute.
Just listening to a little bit. There is like this push and pull
like historical fiction and being like a fiction being art
and being less than that. But then if you don't know the
history or you don't have a context for this, yay, there's
so much that could go wrong and so definitely touches lots of
nerves. And I mean, the thing about
literacy is silly or like, you know, but the I get kind of are
there, like, you're there. Like you're basically saying
Japan and this guy like selling himself to Japan like his his
it's Japan made sense and they were upset with it and then they
like, okay, we're going to backtrack and change and change.
Not like the his story arc. I don't know.
It's hard. And it's about that one.
I really am. Yeah.
I mean, I don't even have a side really cuz I'm like, but I will
full disclosure, I study history and called history degree.
So it's and one thing about it, it's like it's sort of like that
line from Hamlet said like who lives, who dies, who tells me,
exactly, who gets to say, what is history?
Yeah, who is the one teaching? And how are you portraying?
What whose perspective are we looking at it from, because some
of those people who, which mr. Sunshine shows, who were like,
kind of pro-japanese, or like, you know, played with Japanese
so that they could get some Kickback, like, you will need.
For example, that's a prime example of a terrible, terrible
character. I'm unique is a prime example.
Yeah, but they have their reasons, exactly, and for them
that to them, it's like, well, it's good that Japan should
like, some people definitely did even leader, like maybe they
show some pitching coach. I haven't watch if I read the
book like many times, but there's some people who were
fine that fine. But they were like, yeah, okay.
I'll play along with the I need something.
I don't care that they're here. I think they're me here country
better and there's always a gene is constantly maintaining this
narrative. I have is I don't care who takes
ownership of career. I really don't.
I just want all of you guys to stay safe.
Well, that's weird because he's like I'm not helping Korea
because of Korea I'm helping because of this lady I was like,
this is weird. Like, but okay, that's another
thing too. You know what, let's segue into
their relationship because I feel like it's the main thing
that people recall of Show is just them two and he is again,
maintaining that he is American American American American
pro-america don't tread on me all that shit, and he is
actively going back to Korea and jeopardizing, his entire
military career for the woman. He loves because she is a
revolutionary. She's trying to put Korea back
on on top again, and trying to fortify Korea against all of
these foreign incursion. Asians.
And even though America is taking like a back seat during
this time, period is very small time period like there's
tensions from all sides. And, you know, one point there
were talking about like, why isn't America helping us because
we're allies, we sounded. We signed a treaty with America
and they're not doing anything to help us is because of all of
these back Backwoods money deals, it happened that there's
a loan out to Japan from America, America stands to make
a Money off of any war that happens in Japan, so it behooves
them not to do anything. So it was very political in that
sense and he just bypasses all of that, like he is above.
All of that is essentially he's not married to America unlike
her L hardcore. Yes, he loves America, he calls
it, his homeland fine, but he is not burying himself next to the
American flag. And, you know, being that into
patriotism like she she is like he's not that even because he
did it for survival, you know he was like this is a ladder.
I could climb the ladder of the military.
I can work my way up the ranks so I become whatever he whatever
like Boheme. I honestly feel like they didn't
do such a good job of explaining why he was in the military like
what it gave him. Right?
I guess you could see like the end product obviously of all of
his power and influence, while he's in Korea at the legation
but initially, he was being Bullied harassed in the streets,
just because he was Asian. And I mean there's that line of
the it's a stroller. He's like an american gun.
Doesn't care if you're a noble or yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Like, you know, but your SATs and then he's got my vote.
What is that quick? Like carry a big stick.
Oh my God, the he called Snap president.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
At one point area, big stick to speak softly and carry out this.
That's it. That's some president that said
that I can't remember which one I think Teddy, Roosevelt did
this Teddy Roosevelt? Teddy Roosevelt Teddy.
I just want like a cop-out times early on that was corny as hell.
Like, what the hell are you talking about?
Why are you? So, I'm very intrigued by his
distinction of like, I'm not doing this for Korea.
Don't give a fuck, who owns Korea, but he hates the Japanese
when whatever they're doing in the streets, like he's wildly
upset fluent, guys, he flew it. I have so many questions.
Like, did he was he stationed in Japan?
I know. Like, of course, America is also
involved in Japanese stuff. A long time.
I don't know what's going on. I was just like, I didn't get
him and some some points, you know.
Uh-huh. Yeah, I just didn't get him and
then the fact that he was at the very end of like you said
helping so much, but because of her, I was like, that's your
excuse because you just want to help her.
I mean, it was like, he wasn't even if he had said like because
I love the like Potter guy and he was sort of alluding to that.
But like he did it like, say so explicitly.
He was just like fell about her. Looks like know you love
everybody here. Like you look.
All these Korean people. So, yeah.
Today, I don't know. It's hard to sit, I guess is
distinctive. I'm trying to make is he can
back her and her ideologies, without believing in her
ideologies. And I feel like that would throw
me, but can he? I don't think so.
I wasn't buying it, right? I felt like, I was like, no, you
love Korea just a myth, right? Like, he's at and then we'll
come back to it. You would pick Korea the flag
that the keys hold on about flag, explain that.
What was that kid? That he had a draped on his bed
or something like that was like, so weird.
That was weird. It was getting really weird.
Yeah it was just I was getting so we're like what are we doing
right now? Yes.
Oh my God. Okay, okay, let's reset her
here. So Lord, where do I go?
We were talking about their romance that the meat cute.
Let's talk about the meat cute episodes, do they meet?
I don't know if I've ever seen a meet-cute, where they're both
trying to snipe the same guy before it was creative as
clever. I like, I like that as a Meek.
Yeah, yeah. A lot of iconography them on the
roof than, like, Freeze Frame. Because there are like when
they, when they And their hands up to each other like this.
They're like, are you? That was iconic.
It is Iconic. And I felt the one time I
believed in them. Yeah.
The one time. Like, one of the few times.
Yeah. But he tricks her into like
falling in love with them because an episode 3.
She's like what is love? She's learning English.
I heard his better than gaining it title and he says, well, you
can't do it by yourself. You need someone to do with it.
She's like, would you do so? We're would you do it with me?
And it's just, it is a really nice moment between a nice
electricity between But obviously, yeah, he is
manipulating her into yeah, because he knows what it means
the show sort of tricky. Yes.
So I'm like torn. It's yeah.
I want. It wasn't as good as it could
have been. If it was a little less beer, it
was weird. And then you're just like,
whatever he's 10 years older than her.
It was because of the show. So there's this whole like
older, man, younger woman, and then he's kind of a kiss.
I don't remember. No.
But actually, they do not. Okay, and I was, that was
Weirding me out too. Because I was like, you're 100
years older than her. And so, you know, some glad you
didn't kind of, but like, yeah, strange, it was yesterday to
have all these private moms together and she like, kick out
her servants. We leave us alone, like we're
going to talk and like talk or look, what at all.
I'm saying, all I'm saying is they spent days writing to the
beach, today's weather, both have been chilling.
Presumably days, writing back, and you're telling me, there was
no kiss, no sex, nothing, nothing.
And I mean, if you think about a good thing, mate, Not further
than he did by putting his hand, under her skirt, like chicken,
the plank went with her, right? All they did was hug and maybe
they were. It's because of the Korean that
they are guests. Yeah.
The 20-year age Gap in real life was like kind of causing them to
be a little more prudish weird though.
I feel like by the end he's about to die for you.
Girl. Like do something like something
has. That's what I'm saying is I'm
like homeboy is literally taken the shot for you, dying for you
and your time can't even kiss him.
All the cheek like there was no take care of that point to be a
lot harder to let him do that but like you should have.
No no but you see what I'm saying?
Like they're there was life and death situations prior to that
that they had a moment to breathe afterward and there was
still like nothing. No nothing.
Yeah, it's nothing but she said I was the one part where did it
pay off? It didn't know pay off there.
Absolutely not but episode 9. She's talking about she'd rather
be a flame than a flower burn fiercely and then Wilt and he's
like oh she's so cruel. I love this cruel woman.
He's, it's a thing that like keep popping up, is that she
just wants to like burn brightly, and then everyone
says, she's cool. Yeah, she is, she is, she's
terrible. She said, I don't know if I
would, like, Asian, if I like came across her.
I'd be like, I don't know if we'd be friends, bitch.
Like, you're just like too much. It's very a touch, even when she
starts to get a clue. It's like, okay.
Yeah. She's always like insulated.
She's just so insulated the whole time, even then, she's
protected. Yes.
Even if you don't want her, it's dies.
Talk about their like Shields her Shield.
Okay. I just hate.
So, you know, of course, it's all very touchy because
enslavement is like a whole thing and like, yes.
They're now just her regular surveys and it's still like the
amount of loyalty in the amount of, like, like just doting on
her, like it made sense because you've known her since she was a
little baby, but it was really hard to watch this level of
like, you know, the things they would do for her.
The luck thinks it would go for her.
They could have been, they put themselves in danger so many
times or at Being fired, maybe more because at the end of the
day, there still was a class system, she's still nobility and
for servants, to be like, you know, lying on her behalf and
stuff they could have been like, who knows what at that point,
you know? Like, I don't know.
And then she didn't, she did take them, I think for granted
and then and then she loses them in episode 23.
Real real late in the show, right, 23?
There's 24 episodes. They what is it?
They like provided a decoy in town and they went along with a
bunch of older people. People.
They're joking zai together because they're older, their
lives are lived, they don't have a lot of stuff to do to
contribute to the righteous Army and so they're just like will be
a decoy so everyone can make it out and they along the way they
like joking with each other they're messing around.
They have the palanquins because of course she's supposed to be
in there and just as the male and female I think it's Miss
Hammond was her name? Yes.
The and then the male servant I forget his name but they are
about to hold hands. She's literally he just
confessed that she likes him or loves him or whatever, they're
about to hold hands and they all get gunned down That was brutal.
And so, is this Airy so brutal, the most brutal you could be
like this, was it like really upsetting?
As for me, I was crying. And then she shows up is shocked
to see them, there she had no idea the plan.
So, today, keep that last week, we played a secret for headache.
Must have kept it a secret for her and second she never
considered that they would die. Yeah, that she was so out of she
was going back to her earlier thing.
I was like what do you mean and even your jeans like you need to
shore up homie. Because the how do you, how do
you think? I think even after he Called her
out. It was like, you realize like
they can't just eat wherever sit wherever do whatever?
Yeah they're beholden to you. She still was like chop chop my
palanquin like Chop Chop. Like come here.
I need you to summon like I was just like what is going on and
it was so like it both showed. I don't know, your spits like
this again, romanticization of in slate of slavery where like
it reminded me a little bit of this is very American but my
God, I will never Go hungry again.
What does that one? Oh my God.
Is it Gone With the Wind? Yes.
Thank you Gone With the Wind. Yeah, this show reminded me
heavily of Gone With the Wind because it is at this juncture
in the Korean history, right? Where you have east meets west.
A lot of flux happening in and you have almost like Herrera
where she grew up and stuff in the young been era where it is
like the South like what is it? Antebellum South.
Yeah, feels Like that and then you have all this shit happen to
her family implodes. It's terrible.
Really awful stuff. People getting gunned down the
grandfather's funeral getting upset.
You on eek, wreaking havoc, and all this.
It's like her family just dies out and it feels like the
family, what happens to Scarlett's family direction of
Atlanta? Yeah.
The destruction of Atlanta and Gone With the Wind and it took
like, I know a lot of people have mixed feelings about Gone
With the Wind, but Yeah, if you kind of apply the same, like,
epic that Gone With the Wind. Is, this is like that for Korea.
Very much like that. Yeah, I miss like that.
Yeah. At least she never slapped her
servants, which is not more than we can say, for Miss Scarlet.
O'Hara. So at least she didn't, nobody
was called. Ashley, that always bugged me
the wrong. Ashley, Ashley, Ashley.
Yeah, I was like, shut up. I hate the name.
Ashley Period. And then she was like he was
named Ashley and the way she said it was just so annoying.
Okay, man, so we've covered a lot of ground here.
Is there more that you want to talk?
I think, oh my God, the grandpa. When I think, what I want to
touch on with her grandfather is that he has such a gut reaction
to Eugene saying that he's lowborn Grandpa Grandpa starts
saying, like, how could you humiliate me like this?
And that's unrealistic. I was like, well, it did seem
realistic because he's just hella old on his way out and
still has his pride hurt vanity. And Jeopardy reputation to
uphold is actually humiliated by his precious granddaughter, the
rebellious headstrong one who is intelligent a sniper by his own
doing because he's the one who Initiated her training.
That's right and all of a sudden she's in love with the lowborn.
Oh my god, get the fuck out. Like it was so that was but
she's his favorite granddaughter, excessive?
Yes, he's the one. He like put all his like, you
know, eggs in that basket yet her true cousin was an idiot,
you know, or whatever, like not helpful and this, she's the one
who was like his hopes and dreams and he really loved, you
know, the her father who passed away and like, you know, never
got to meet her mother and said he had all this like stuff
riding on issuing and so I think that's what What is listed at
this visceral reaction to Eugene's confession, which like,
we were saying, was pretty realistic.
But yeah, it was also out of pocket to be like, excuse you.
But Eric, he was like, the lowborn and why are you doing
this to me? And I was like, what do you have
to do with it? It was very patriarchy pet, so
much patriarchy in that moment, just coming to a head because
you think he's an ally and then all of a sudden he like, does
this 180 and it's like, oh my God, he's a classicist sexist.
Like all these things like coming into play.
Well, I think how could he not be like that still?
He's still he lived. However, aged he lives he's like
100 years old or something like he just say.
Yeah so this is all new yes, this whole revolutionary thing
having to support the righteous cause you never wanted to, he
thought his kids were like silly for trying to fight but he
funded the righteous Army for like years and years and years.
So he was in on the plot but he just I guess wasn't in on the
social Revolution that was happening.
Yes he wasn't. That was a different Storia.
Mmm. He was just wanted the Japan
people to be out of there. Yeah I like that moment though
after he leaves Eugene leaves. She's like I think you should go
and he leaves and she runs after him and jumps the Garden Wall
and she catches up to. Yeah she's like extremely
emotional and she's like, please try to understand my grandfather
and he plays it off. He does her kindness.
He says I'm actually grateful. I got to see you again because
of him. He's like you take after him.
I wonder who taught you to This wonderful and he's really taking
well, and he because she was running, she loses a shoe, very
Cinderelly, he goes and puts it back on her and her they cut to
her committee, right? And she's crying lip quivering
quiet crying. Like she's like, like it's just
moving everywhere and I have in my notes.
Oh my God, she's breaking. Because it was such a good
moment for her, obviously, she plays it kind of close to the
chest throughout the show. Even though she does have
emotional moments, she is very hard faced and so stoic that.
Yeah, very stoic. And has a really good poker face
in that moment. She just breaks and I loved it.
I loved the vulnerability there. I mean, also another moment like
this, when she pulls the ring out, from her whatever, she's
wearing to be like, I'm still married to you.
Yeah. Oh God, fake married.
Yeah, I thought that was also similarly cuz she did.
I mean we saw her little secret moves of like, I'm going to keep
this ring. And act like I'm not wearing it
like I'm handing back but then when she like just pulls out
like I love you. Yeah.
Oh man. So I mean, we could talk about
that the Rings and stuff. Well yeah, I just, I really
said, oh go on. Yeah.
What do I have here? I have the in episode 21, he
proposes to her and it's not the romantic proposal that everybody
wants. Its out of necessity she needs.
Has manipulated her love ya. I mean, he's using his love for
her to get him to get her to Japan and he's like, well, the
save this way is if you're my wife so they kind of forged the
marriage and he hands her. He what is it there in the
bakery? The French Hurry.
And there's flour on the table, he writer pariba.
Get ya. He writes love on the table in
English and in place of oh he puts the ring.
Oh, I died. I was like, I don't know, I wish
I wasn't so susceptible to that dumb moment but I loved it.
It was horrific and wonderful at the same time because you know,
that it's corny. It's corny.
But it's not really sincere because she's like effective.
Yeah. Yes.
That too. She's lying in a sense and
manipulating him and when he takes the ring off the table and
hands it to her, puts it on a ring, on her finger, tells her
the meaning behind it. The Western of story of the game
including me the naming convention because he's got to
take his last name and all that shit and they pan back to the
table and it says live now instead of love and I was like
if that's not a clear sign of how this thing is going to end.
They are not going to To end up in love, love each other.
Like the love is not going to win out.
She's gonna live because of what he's doing for her and yeah it's
just he's just very forlorn in that moment.
It's not a triumphant moment, not happy.
He has to fake the marriage to help her accomplish the mission.
And yeah, it's just versus a sincere manifestation of their
life portrait. They take the wedding, you're
getting nervous here because some of these things are just
Manufactured to me. So why do we all watch kdramas?
It's this stuff. This is like a job.
Why are we watching this show? Yeah, yeah, exactly yeah.
Oh, man, but they lead the day. They leave on the train to for
the mission and she's dressed in Western ladies clothes.
Not the suit like the looking, so it's sexy.
Do mask suit. She's not in that.
She's got a dry, love that? Yeah.
When he, when he saw, he puts it on.
Oh my God. Just stop it.
People all these people, but it's so great.
You know, she looks cute. She looks stunning in this
moment and he, he acts so well, here he begun.
You can see that she takes his breath away.
Like he's literally like, like he kind of catches his breath
and he says, if my last memory of Charleston is this beautiful,
I'll never forget it and I was like, oh yeah, she yeah.
Yeah. Oh God.
But thank you can say like it all this wedding talk is remind
me of how sad I was about the fact that the loneliest and most
hurt people ended up dying alone.
Yes. You know.
Like, he song to like, who knows?
I know he lived or no, he died. I left my dies.
Oh, he died. So everybody dies looking.
Nobody got anything, but of the Rings and stuff.
That's our finish up. So she figures out that he
should be wearing a ring to a matching ring.
And she puts the ring on him, because he had it on him.
And she finally says, I love you.
She says, I love you. I've always been in love with
you tears streaming. He lets out a breath that he'd
been holding evidently and it's just a really sad, sad moment.
But one that, you know, it's going to happen.
You know what's gonna? You just like?
Oh my God. So two more deaths.
And then I think we should start wrapping it up.
We've gone really long on this episode but Okay, so we song
dies, he ends up hiding love him, he was great like
underrated character. I would say super underrated
because what she was saying and tell me if you think the same
about that thing. Anyway, going I will I will
watch me saying eventually, I promise.
So he ends up hiding like a time capsule of photos and evidence
of the righteous Army and all of the like human rights
violations. And shit that Japan has been
doing and he Hides it and then he gets caught for his pro
career newspaper. They want Intel who's the
righteous Army, where's Ash in all this stuff and he just gives
his previous line. I like beautiful but useless
things and in the end he was a patriot and a journalist as
well. Very died.
A romantic deal of like you can fight with guns and I'll fight
with words. I mean it was really, yeah, it's
very true. Right.
And so like, you know, there that's documentation of witness
being a witness. Yeah.
But Has to history is also important.
Yeah, yeah, lutely. Yeah, one last hit to the Head,
sends them to the ground and the ticking of his grandfather's
pocket watch which was an omen throughout the show.
Definitely its lowest a couple deaths in a way and it's a
couple itemizes. Also I know it was brutal and
now finally, it's ticking. It's last time for Hibbett slows
down to nothing and he's out of time.
It's done. It's very almost anticlimactic,
almost too banal of an ending for such a character, fast
fasil, mmm style, but not really, but it made sense for
him. It makes sense for did.
Yeah. What about the Last Stand in the
woods for the rest of the righteous Army that did make it
out there? Like for they split up until
like four platoons try to make it to Manchuria, a couple of
Petunias. Don't get outta there completely
surrounded in the woods but they, you know, Faye lately.
Raise the flag to fight until The Bitter End and the Potter,
do the Manchurian, okay. Yeah.
The powder gives like a great rallying speech to and that's it
like they all die. I mean again when you start the
show and you know the history of Korea it's like there's no way
the righteous Army is going to like win somehow like other
wiser. This is not happening, right?
So it was just sad the whole time and yeah the putter out
here making hard decisions like you know, I don't know.
Like I loved his character in terms of like they showed the
conflicting way to lead something like the righteous
armies, that were his faction of it and the decisions you have to
make in this in the stuff. The sacrifices you have to make
the He was the one who's explain to everyone like you know, this
is how it's going down and yeah, I don't know, it's just sad at
the end. I think the ending was so sad.
It was the words and you know Japan's gonna win.
You know dripping, you do channelings.
Yeah. Yeah.
And he's in power alert for decades.
It's crazy. Right?
You'll the death of E1 eek. I kind of wished that Gunner
Jang was in on it, or that one ich knew that she was trained by
the Gunner. Because there was like this
whole running theme of like I'm going to get the guy who did
this to me and one take and Gunner, Jack at all Jang, had
all of his Bad Blood because he killed his dad.
He shot his leg made him a cripple and all this stuff and
it never kind of manifested. But I guess that's just sort of
included gun or Jiang when she shoots his shoulder.
She shoots wanted shoulder and then they flashed quickly back
to the Gunner as a teenager and so he's kind of their In spirit
again. She passed to the child actor
props of time. Yes, he was great.
His training, I guess allowed her to take the three shots and
his daughter. He picked up the mess did not
shed a single tear. She was already feeling super
guilty and torn about everything.
Her dad did all the sins of him and what's cool is that Asian
killed one week without ever knowing that he killed her
parents. That's right.
Well that was an interesting thing too because I went it was
not Gunner jianghu, got to get what it was like you know in
real life you don't get to kill your enemies or do or get you
know, you don't get the Revenge that you deserve and right.
And so I was like, maybe they're trying to like, say something
about that, where it's like, well maybe he lives or
something, I wasn't sure what was going to happen, necessarily
with him, but everybody who needs died, does end up dying,
which is again, that payoff, that comes that you kind of
want. But, but also, Like yeah, it's
interesting that she that they made it like she didn't even
know, she's getting revenge that she was due and the fact that he
wasn't involved really. So that was just an interesting
little. The details of the show of the
how they wrote, in what they included in how they portray.
Yeah, that was so good. Yeah, Gunner, Zhang's death,
awful, no good. Terry, what handful literal
flames of Glory, those are all flames of Glory.
He resolves his issues with the King.
Because obviously, one explode, this spun the story that the
king abandoned, the people who are defending the court during
that encouraging for the US. And then he had a bad blood with
him in the king and the King was like I'm so he didn't say he was
sorry, it was basically said he leases I can't make it out, I'm
sorry, but I feel bad and whatever and you know, he they
did kind of hash it out. And in the end, he does die.
Like defending the, the key The king and all this, all these
people. And yes, he gets the, the
young'uns out of the military academy, after they put the span
of about his marriage to the Archer lady.
What the hell was that about? What they actually, I was just a
mess with us where they actually married or like I think they
were like common-law married. I guess I don't know.
I have no idea. I thought that they were gonna
follow religion, or like, could they be merry like there.
So early. I think they could.
But like I understood that they were not married, they just had
a long-standing flirtation, they had on spoken.
Feelings for each other and they were looking out from the you
think they weren't even in a relation?
No, and then when he, he kind of said towards the end of like
when they were separated, that we're going to leave together
and will Forge a life together. He kind of a kind of, like
halfway said that they loved each other.
She said he would, she was waiting for a handsome man to
come back. That's what, that's what that
conversation ended up being. Like, I'm basically going to
wait for him here whenever he's done, we're going to pick up and
like move together. We're going to continue this.
Gather and then he she ends up hanging.
She's that it was horrible. She's the first death of the I
was horrible horrendous. Yes.
Like so brutal brutal and wanting it was have to hanging
and he shows up and he can't even look at her.
He's just like brim down on his hat.
Like cannot look at her but he screams to cut her down because
this is his wife. And I was like oh my god did he
just claim her as his wife all of a sudden or what a day?
This reads? Like my intended.
This is my intended. Maybe it's like that.
I don't know. Either it was a little confusing
but so brutal nonetheless, yeah, the love stories.
Did not catch a break. Did you understand anything
about the 7 traders of 1905 of the five traders of 1905?
The seventh round, not really. But I will say, in my research
there's all these little skirmishes and things and like,
Was like people who are kind of like infiltrated the king side
of things and we're really like kind of like Japanese spies and
like, we're doing kind of these underrated things and that's
what led to some of the like earlier skirmishes and different
things like that, right? And and that's when things like
Japan. Just like Japan was just like
squatting essentially in a way and it seems, like from what I
read at least and in the beginning and then King Kong was
like, let me just, like, get some formal formal treaties and
stuff to get other people involved.
So that we Can he was trying had good intentions to get creative
lights and power. But yeah, there was all these
other little things that happen. There's a lot of like Farmers
against the king revolting and this and that be coverage,
various reasons. Yeah, for that even before he
was king. So I'm assuming it's, I don't
know, it's tough like Beyond me and because they made a point of
having me, son, come and take their photograph.
Okay, so I want to talk a little about this, the righteous Army.
We've long as that we've young, I press this right in Korean.
Okay. So the thing about them was,
they were made. They were made up of like the
tenant farmers and then, like the Army, the military people,
who got kind of, like, kicked out after Japan's like Japan
invaded, the king's Palace, like, Dethrone to the chaos.
The King was like, still signing stuff.
Sort of, I think I'm a half is just like a puppet came against
like Japan. Yeah, yeah.
Japan was pulling the strings and so-so.
But yeah that is what who the righteous Army was like those
types of the same people we saw and I wanted to mention to speak
on journalism, a little bit. There was Frederick Mackenzie
shows up at the end of the show and takes the photos, the
righteous Army. So one thing that I found out
that I didn't quite realize the time.
First, all that is based off a real photo you can look up.
When you look up Rachel's Army, it is the only known photo of
anyone who's in the righteous Army that exists, according to
what I've read, I don't quote me on that.
But as my ready that and they say this, Yeah, I also brought
it elsewhere because I was like, I don't know what's going on
here but they do they sound. So only photo in the show it is.
I think the journalist said or whatever that this is probably,
the only photo that will exist of you guys.
Yes, okay, so for sure, if I were her child is because that
does end up being the only photo that exists of the righteous
Army. I don't know if they have the
names of the list of names. I was like, going to try and
like Google, it be like that. Screenings are had to Google
because ever have like the same names, you know, like a lot.
So yeah, I didn't really go there, but but then I also
wanted to kind of mention And another journalist.
So Philip Json was actually, so I was trying to find out like
was Eugene Choi. So the thing that is going to be
historical fiction, is it kind of brings people to try and pay
attention to history or like find out about his?
Yeah, yeah so that's a good thing.
So I was like it's Eugene Choi and that's a common question.
If you look at mr. Sunshine.
It's like it was using to a real person.
Was this is a true story, right? So there was a man named Philip
Chase on and Jace are Jason maybe but it's spelled j is 0
hn. O mistress spell.
Like almost like Korean spelling in a way or something but Philip
Jason, he was a Korean born. In naturalized US citizen and a
former member of the Enlightenment party.
He published this, like, bilingual English, Korean
newspaper called the independence to educate create.
However, what it was for, it was actually like American
propaganda or something. It was educate Koreans, I like
democracy and like you know, modernizations that these are
good, things like you want this trolley here, like this
electric, whatever. Yeah, out of those, those
specific things but he was trying to promote that stuff and
so there was sort of like this Eugene asked person who existed
these journalists Like, you know, it kind of makes it like
what Frederick Mackenzie, didn't he song of like independent
journalism, right, you know Koreans, I don't know.
It all kind of like somehow makes a full circle.
Yeah, now that's interesting. Yeah, that's great.
So, you know, I can see, you know, I can see them looking it
up and be like, well we could just make it two characters but
that's if anyone does. And I think so too.
Again, just to go back briefly to Snowdrop or if you are to
take some of this stuff to heart, it's like if you don't
know it, And even if you know it but you didn't live through.
It's like different, right? So it's different to have
actually gone through. I think in America because we
haven't like thankfully had any much happen in our soils and
like you know Generations but 9/11 is I think something that
people who lived through have like a certain concept of
absolutely and after when Kennedy died, so previous
generation, only right? Exactly that, exactly that.
So if you who where were you and Kennedy died?
Were you on 9/11 those things? Those are kind of the closest,
maybe we as like very privileged, a kids can relate to
You think of like people who are Korean or have create
impression, pride, and think of these events versus us, just
because to me is like, media and entertainment, right?
So interesting. I love your points.
Okay, I'm coming up to the end of my notes, to be honest, and I
don't know if I have the energy to like continue talking about
mr. Sunshine.
It's just so overwhelming but I think Eugene dying is the, I
guess icing on the cake. The cherry on top of this awful,
like really emotional Emotional exchange few episodes.
The last six episodes are just Bloodshed hit after hit after
hit betrayal after betrayal and, you know, he died.
He sacrifices himself to save the what little was left of the
righteous Army including his girl and he uncouples the train
and you know, he dies, just shy of the sunlight because it's at
the very end of this tunnel, it's very symbolic.
And you know, this is my history, this is my love story.
This is why. Just I have to go wish you
Victory. All of these things that he
says, I can voiceover are just crazy.
I mean, where else could he go? You know.
Like that's what I just kept thinking in his death is like,
this stuff is like seems like it's in vain because it's yeah,
it's for her. Like, she probably would live
somehow, you know, there is an argument or a point to be made.
I think that yoojin Cho toi is role in this show is greatly
diminished after he goes to prison.
For three years and they have the time Jump to 1907 when they
come back from 1907. Like, it is almost a completely
different show. It is like, it's a different
country. Yeah, different country and
different but very high stakes and you get the endgame episodes
and you're just kind of like wondering where Eugene's
character is going to land here. Obviously, everyone is doomed to
die but you know, this character motivations we touched on that
earlier, like, what is his Deal. He's so wishy-washy.
But at the same time, very Resolute staunchly American.
And honestly, I think that they didn't know what to do with him.
Like they knew what to do with. Yeah, good on me.
Yeah, I feel like they knew what to do with him way more than
they knew how to do with Eugene, they definitely clapped.
When he wrapped his scenes like they just like you're finished,
you're done and we've wrapped this nicely.
Yeah. But then I like I thought when a
Sheen was hurt and she was kind of away for a few episodes
because she was hurt, which is random.
Yeah. And you didn't have her around
if you were just doing I. First of all I would love a
spin-off of so many these characters to exist again in my
fanfic of my mind that while I would never, I will never write
but I would like to know what they do but when she's gone it's
kind of like. Okay bye.
But then it's like yeah, like how would they have ended
quote-unquote her story to like if we kept calling her through
until she probably eventually dies.
I don't know what else. Really gets imprisoned or
something. I don't know.
What else, what happened to her? Yeah.
I kind of thought the same thing of like there's nowhere else for
her to go almost. Yeah.
And even like keeping Eugene around or not.
Yeah, after three years when he's in prison there's like
nothing else left for him to do. Yeah.
Like he's lost. Some Edge and I don't know, it
was that many the show should have just ended what around
then, you know. Yeah.
And had a weird sort of stinger with like, and Japanese the
Japanese forces took over a Dethrone, the king and whatever
year. And like, the trial was weird to
his trial. The trial was, oh, God.
No one can do a good energy. But I'm telling you this right
now, the American like Americans are the only ones who can do an
American trial in In. Okay, then I watch my eyes, can
see the accent. I'm telling you like, the
portrayal of this trial was like Bonkers.
I was like, okay, so there's four people there in this like
jury. Nobody else in here and I just
seen like, like, uh, time so many issues really, that's what
I'm saying. Like this whole show was great,
but then has like so many issues.
Those like, I don't know. Yeah, take away.
Some Soju bottles for me and what you did.
All right, Nina. We've been here like for over
two hours. I think we're done, I think
we've talked about so many things, we chewed on the fat a
lot for the show. And I think that if you are
listening and you've listened this far, please, like let us
know what the hell. You thought about mr.
Sunshine, like reach out to us and let us know what you thought
of the episode. If you made some points that you
hadn't thought of, if you want to contribute to the
conversation, you felt like you needed to jump in at some point.
Like let us know. Tell us Us and apologies, have
any of the history I gave us a little inaccurate or Off the
Mark, or something says trying to read and interpret it all for
this recording. So, you know, obviously don't
have the full knowledge and background.
Yeah. I think in their next lives are
all going to be okay, though. Hopefully, they're all meeting
in heaven, they're all meeting. However, it happened a good on.
They had this whole thing was like, walking off his Spirit was
literally walking away. Oh yeah, he's sorry, he's buying
dreary surreal. He's like, yeah, they when they
come back, Enough like everybody else.
Just died. And yeah, that was it.
Yeah, you got like a Corporal Spirit like just walk out.
Like they love them to have. You could tell the rider, the
beauty they really loved. Good job, Mase character, and,
you know, then again, have stood up acting.
This was so to me, I don't watch as many dramas as you do,
because I don't have the time for that, but I would love to
and also, I kind of am curious if you thought there actually
was good, as I thought it was maybe.
Oh yeah. It was good.
Really good. Amazing history.
Yeah, 10/10 the acting for the acting.
Okay, I think we're good Mina. Thank you.
Thank you so much for coming on this show for being so gracious
about the hurricane and for being very flexible.
Where can people find you online?
If they haven't listened to the novel era episode and already
looked you up, Yes, please find me on Kpop bookshelf on
Instagram. That's mainly why?
I'm, I'm really bad at tweeting but I am capable shelf POD at
gmail.com. If you want to email me about
bookshelf pot, I think that's my Twitter handle.
I don't even know. But, yeah, check it out.
I cover a lot of not just Kpop stuff, but other stuff to try to
understand things like he dramas, and Korea, and Korean
culture Society all that stuff. So, check it out.
Uh, thank you and I think that's it.
That's our show, I'm Jessica, and this has been ATC presents
devic are Rambles podcast. Your costume me to your soul.
See your face. See your eyes.
My name is Puma longer. Because I told you you could
come too. Choking.