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I'm Jessica and this is the Teba
Ki Rambo's podcast where a 

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couple of friends review Korean 
dramas and we're back. 

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We're back for another K drama 
review. 

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We are going to be reviewing 
It's OK to Not Be OK. 

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And for this episode, I am 
joined by Melissa and Noelise 

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Way from the African Soulmates 
podcast. 

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How are you guys? 
Hi, Jess. 

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Thanks so much for having us. 
I feel like this this meeting 

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has been years in the making. 
We're really excited to be here 

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with you today. 
I am so thrilled. 

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Yeah, and we're viewing such a 
controversial but great drama, 

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so really excited about this 
conversation. 

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Yeah, I'm really thrilled to 
have you guys here. 

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It's it's like you said, a long 
time coming. 

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We've been really friendly on 
the socials for years. 

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I've been a fan of you guys for 
years and been listening for 

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years. 
And I know that you guys have 

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covered It's OK to not be OK, 
but it's been about four years 

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since your episode came out. 
And even though I have listened,

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I don't sadly remember the 
episode. 

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And in talking with you guys, it
seems like you guys also are a 

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little rusty on the details of 
what you guys said in that 

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episode. 
So maybe this was a little bit 

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needed to refresh all of our 
memories. 

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If you guys can just tell the 
audience in case they don't 

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listen to your podcast, maybe 
what you guys have been watching

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lately and what you guys have 
been enjoying. 

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Sure. 
Well, I've just been watching 

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Undercover high school, I think 
it's called, and it's honestly, 

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it's been, it's been such a trip
because I took a bit of a hiatus

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from K dramas over the holidays 
because I just needed, I don't 

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know, creative rest. 
And so it's been a fun way to 

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sort of ease back into it. 
And yeah, rewatching it's OK to 

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not be OK in preparation for 
this. 

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So that was also a an 
interesting trip down memory 

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lane for sure. 
Yeah, Mel. 

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I actually haven't been watching
Korean dramas lately. 

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I just watched It's OK Not to Be
OK just to kind of remember what

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that was about. 
But I'm just really in my 

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Chinese drama era to be. 
Girl. 

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Well, what seed drama are you 
watching lately? 

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I'm watching Ski into Love and 
the first snow because they're 

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on Netflix, easy to watch. 
And I'm just like, I don't know,

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they're just a little bit 
lighter right now than what's 

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going on with K dramas. 
But I know that there's so many 

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shows that are waiting for me 
like the potato, the Potato Lab 

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and Undercover High School. 
And I'm just like and my list, 

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when I'm ready to give get back 
into K drama, I'm going to get 

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on top of that. 
Yeah, yeah. 

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I'm also watching The First 
Frost on Netflix. 

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I'm about halfway through and 
the podcast schedule has kind of

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overhauled my personal watching 
schedule and I'm really upset 

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that the show has ended. 
And now I'm kind of getting the 

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edits and I'm getting the 
reactions from people and I'm 

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like, no, I have to be pure. 
I have to be non spoiled on the 

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show, even though it's what what
plot was that? 

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I mean, there's nothing really 
there to spoil, but I'm like, I 

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don't want to see them together 
yet. 

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I know that it's coming. 
So yeah, I am enjoying C dramas 

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as well. 
I've been loving C dramas for 

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years. 
So we are going to get into it's

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OK to not be OK. 
And there is a lot to unpack on 

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this show. 
So bear with us as we kind of 

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weave our way through this. 
And we will be talking a little 

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bit about the the Kim SU Kyon 
scandal that literally just 

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broke this week. 
So I don't think that, I guess 

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it goes without saying that we 
are trying to be as diplomatic 

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as possible in our approach to 
this. 

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So as we come to that part of 
the show, again, bear that in 

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mind. 
Korea has really strict 

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defamation laws, the most 
strictest in the world. 

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So as this thing is developing, 
we're not going to say that that

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much, but we are available in 
the social medias for you guys 

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to DM us to message us and talk 
at length about this stuff. 

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OK, so without further ado, 
here's some housekeeping. 

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If this is your first time 
listening, go ahead and 

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subscribe on your favorite 
podcast app or on Apple Podcast,

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Spotify, Google Podcast, and 
many more. 

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And if you like us, please give 
us a review on Apple Podcast and

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Spotify. 
That goes such a long way for 

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us. 
Come and check us out on social 

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media to stay up to date on our 
latest episodes and reviews. 

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You can find us on Instagram, 
Facebook and TikTok. 

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Devaki dae Bakod And lastly, if 
you're a fan, please consider 

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becoming a patron. 
It's a great way for you to get 

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00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:09,920
involved and ensure your 
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You can check out the page on 
patreon.com/debach Pod and shout

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out to our patrons, Janet 
Curtis, CD Alana, Grace, Lorna, 

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Sammy, Caitlin, Julian #1, 
Michelle, Tanmayi, Martha, 

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Delphia, Maria, Sarah, Julian 
#2, Pam, and Cynthia. 

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New patron, thank you so much 
for supporting the show. 

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All right, so I'm going to go 
ahead and read the My Drama List

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synopsis for It's OK to Not Be 
OK, and we're going to get into 

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it. 
We're going to get into it, so 

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here we go. 
Moon Kante is a community health

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worker at a psychiatric ward who
was blessed with everything, 

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including a great body, smarts, 
ability to sympathize with 

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others, patient's ability to 
react quickly, stamina, and 

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more. 
Meanwhile, Komunyong is a 

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popular writer of children's lit
who, due to suffering from any 

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social personality disorder, 
seems extremely selfish, 

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arrogant, and rude. 
Moon Kangte denies love and 

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Komunyong doesn't know it. 
The two defy fate and fall in 

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love, finding their souls and 
identities in the process. 

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So, this show aired in June to 
August 2020. 

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For those keeping track at home,
that is pure pandemic. 

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That is the summer of pandemic 
and it is 16 episodes long. 

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It is directed by Pakshinu and 
he's directed things like the 

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Killing Vote, Love Struck in the
City encounter, Don't Dare to 

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Dream, Hide, Jackal, Me, Angel 
Eyes, Queen of Ambition, and 

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most recently, of course, when 
the stars gossip from 2025, he 

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also has another drama coming 
out, Miji's Soul. 

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This also coming out this year. 
Have you guys experienced some 

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Pakshinu dramas before? 
No, actually I haven't. 

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I was listening to to your list 
and I'm like, I tried to watch 

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this new Lehman Ho one that 
struggled when it came up. 

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Yeah, it was, I don't know, it 
was a bit slow for me. 

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So I'm actually quite shocked 
because yeah, I don't know if he

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has sort of like a theme through
his dramas, but they all seem 

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quite, quite different. 
No Lee's way. 

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I haven't watched any of these, 
but I know I did try Lovestruck 

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in the city. 
But a lot of our listeners, a 

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lot of the African soul mates, I
mean, it was people had such 

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mixed opinions about it and so I
was like, you know what, this 

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one can wait. 
It's still on my list, but who 

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knows what I will eventually get
to it. 

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Yeah, I've watched a few of 
these. 

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Angel Eyes in 2014 I believe, 
was about this blind girl and 

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she fell in love with a a boy 
and then it was like a second 

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chance romance. 
But now her she had like an eye 

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transplant or something like 
that. 

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And now she can see, but she 
doesn't recognize the boy that 

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she fell in love with because 
now she can see. 

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It was so little. 
I don't think I finished 

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watching it, you know. 
And then I've heard of 

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Encounter, heard of Lovestruck 
in the city. 

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Very mixed bag on those two. 
And then when the stars gossip 

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has been universally panned this
year. 

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Yeah, yeah. 
Not a. 

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Not a, not a one. 100 Good luck.
Track record for this director, 

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but yeah. 
So the show though was written 

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by Toe Young and she has only 
written three things. 

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Two of those things are Jugglers
from 20/17/2018 and Mr. Plankton

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from last year, 2024. 
And as soon as I saw Mr. 

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Plankton, I was like, oh, that 
makes a lot of sense. 

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Yes, yeah. 
Yes, yeah. 

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I loved Mr. Plankton. 
I love Mr. Plankton. 

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And so it totally makes sense to
me that it's the same writer 

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because yes, right. 
Support. 

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Mel, you also watched Mr. 
Plankton. 

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Yeah, sorry. 
I love Mr. Plankton and you 

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know, like these deep male 
characters that are just going 

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through emotional turmoil. 
Seems to be her bag. 

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And she's I, I and you know, Mr.
Plankton came, was it in 

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Christmas or like November at a 
time when it was also a little 

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bit dry and it was such a good 
show for that period of time. 

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So yeah, no, she is great. 
Obviously quality, not quantity,

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going for her. 
Yeah, exactly. 

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I haven't watched Strugglers, 
but I did watch Mr. Plankton 

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from last year, and I thought it
was really, really smart. 

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I've really enjoyed it. 
It was very nuanced and had a 

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lot of depth to it. 
And there was something about it

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where it was asking a lot of 
questions but not providing too 

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many answers. 
It was trying to let the 

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audience come to these 
conclusions themselves, right? 

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It's trying to like pose these 
questions for the audience, even

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though you can tell the writer 
has a point of view, right? 

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I just think she's very smart in
the that approach and she seems 

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to do some research and I like 
it. 

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I think it's, it's kind of AI 
don't know how she makes a 

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living if she's only doing 3 
dramas, like done 3 dramas and 

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you know, the last 10 years. 
But I appreciate the last two of

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them if that makes any sense, 
and the show. 

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So the cast, I'm going to read 3
cast members and I'm going to go

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basically in backwards order if 
that makes any sense and leave 

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Kim SU Kyun for last. 
OU Cheng SE, he plays Moon Sante

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and he's got like 55 movies and 
37 dramas to his name. 

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He is a veteran actor. 
He is the get of this show. 

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00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:10,360
When they announced his casting 
for our Moon Sante, that was the

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that was the big deal, right? 
He's been in things like, I 

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mean, there's so many things you
throw a rock. 

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He's been in this in the show I 
miss You from 2013, Missing 9, 

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which was not a great shit. 
That was one of the worst shows 

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00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:28,400
I've ever seen. 
Touch Your Heart from 2019 When 

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00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:31,640
the Cameelia Blooms from 2019, 
which we've covered on the show.

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There's an episode on it, Hot 
Stove League, which we will be 

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00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:40,080
covering on the show this 
season, The Good Detective, GD 

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Son, Little Women, which we've 
covered, Revenant, which we've 

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covered, Sweet Home 2, Deaths 
Game, which I reviewed over on 

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TN Soju podcast, So many Queen 
of Tears. 

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He had a cameo in it. 
He's Sweet Home 3, Mr. Plankton.

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00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:58,760
So he worked with the writer 
again. 

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00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:02,480
He was also in When the Stars 
Gossip earlier this year. 

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00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:03,920
So he's worked with the director
again. 

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00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:07,760
You can see he has he likes 
working with these people, so 

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00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:12,040
he's worked with them again. 
And he should be on your screens

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00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:15,760
right now and When Life Gives 
You Tangerines, which is 

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00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:19,400
currently airing for us at the 
time of recording on Netflix. 

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00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:22,160
So oh Jiang SE, what do you guys
think of this guy? 

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Personally, he stays paid. 
I always have a job and I love 

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00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:32,320
it for him, I really do. 
And I've just seen like his 

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range. 
He has such range. 

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00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:39,240
I remember when I noticed I 
watch Touch Your Heart and then 

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watch It's OK to not be OK. 
And then later we reviewed Touch

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00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:46,040
Your Heart and we went back and 
I was like, normally this is 

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like the same actor. 
How is he the same? 

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00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:52,320
He is? 
He is so good. 

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00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:57,040
I have never watched him in a 
drama where I felt like I I 

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didn't appreciate his 
contribution to the show. 

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00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:04,360
So I'm a I'm a, I'm a big fan of
his. 

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00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:07,640
Yeah, yeah. 
I would echo that. 

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00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:11,480
I think he is such a versatile 
actor. 

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00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:16,080
And I mean, clearly, you know, 
has done so many dramas and 

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00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:20,480
movies in his career. 
I'm just curious, has he played 

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00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:23,600
a lead in in any of these or is 
he? 

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00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:28,240
I feel like he always has an 
important character, but again, 

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00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:32,160
not knowing a lot of these 
movies, has he been, you know, 

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the leading, the leading 
character, like the male lead? 

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To your knowledge I don't recall
like any of the ones that I've 

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00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:45,280
said. 
He was not the male lead, but he

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00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,120
is a Co lead, if that makes any 
sense. 

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00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:54,000
Yeah, which Co lead supporting 
these are sort of 

223
00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,800
interchangeable, at least in the
West, especially for award 

224
00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:02,360
season, because there's always 
category fraud in awards where 

225
00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:05,040
you put a Co lead, someone who 
has a lot of screen times, who's

226
00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:07,480
carrying a lot of weight in a 
sporting category with somebody 

227
00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:08,640
who's like in there for 7 
minutes. 

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00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:14,920
He does a lot like he's he, 
we'll do a cameo role, he'll do 

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00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:17,800
a bit part and then he'll do 
something where he's in every 

230
00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:22,720
single episode and he's 
alongside younger, very popular 

231
00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:27,640
actors like this show. 
I think that he's well regarded 

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00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:32,480
in the industry and his name 
holds a lot of weight to the 

233
00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:38,600
Korean audience and I'm not sure
if they're if he has LED maybe 

234
00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:40,960
in movies although. 
Maybe. 

235
00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:46,360
I also can't say for sure, but. 
I mean, in any case, yeah, in 

236
00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:49,560
any case, right. 
Like whether it's 2 minutes or 

237
00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:53,480
every single episode, he really 
just comes with that gravitas 

238
00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:57,520
and leaves an impression. 
So exactly that's off to him. 

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00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:03,200
Yeah, so he plays off of Soyaji 
who was the female lead. 

240
00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:08,400
She plays Ko Munyong and she's 
got 8 movies to her name and a 

241
00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:13,520
few TV shows like Mood in School
from 2016, Huadong where she 

242
00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:20,040
plays Princess SU Myung, Save Me
from 2017, Lawless Lawyer and 

243
00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:24,080
Eve from 2022. 
What do you guys think of 

244
00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:26,000
Soyaji? 
That's my girl. 

245
00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:29,280
That's your girl. 
That's my girl. 

246
00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:32,120
I love Soyaji. 
And I mean, I say this as 

247
00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:37,200
someone who's only watched her 
in Eve and it's OK to not be OK,

248
00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:42,880
but I think, I don't know, she 
just, whatever stoic kind of 

249
00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:45,280
character she plays, she does it
so well. 

250
00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:48,160
She she just has a presence when
she comes on screen. 

251
00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:54,200
And I think she acts a lot with 
her face in a way that not a lot

252
00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,680
of, well, not a lot, but like, I
don't see a lot of people doing 

253
00:15:57,680 --> 00:15:59,400
really well. 
You know, she can just come and 

254
00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,520
she's super icy, but there's 
like there are layers, there's 

255
00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:04,640
some depth there that she can 
convey. 

256
00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:08,400
And yeah. 
And I mean fashionista. 

257
00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:11,360
Yeah, yes, fashionista. 
Yeah. 

258
00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:16,480
The wardrobe in this show is 
famous, and for good reason. 

259
00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:23,080
It is really unique, It's 
colorful, it's vibrant and it 

260
00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:26,760
looks amazing on her. 
She's the the clothes they put 

261
00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:32,120
on her are stunning. 
It looks couture and I think 

262
00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:37,080
this show is stands out among 
the K dramas because it is so 

263
00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:42,960
her wardrobe is so whimsical. 
It looks like runway fashion, 

264
00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:46,720
right? 
And it totally informs her 

265
00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:49,720
character. 
Soyaji is not without scandal, 

266
00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:54,920
as we may or may not know. 
A few years ago, she was accused

267
00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:58,480
of forcing her ex-boyfriend Jung
Hyun into not having any 

268
00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:04,119
physical interaction with his Co
star in the 2018 drama Time. 

269
00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:08,040
I don't know if you guys had 
heard of this weird drama. 

270
00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,960
She was like semi cancelled for 
this. 

271
00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,480
It was like really bizarre. 
I I mean, yeah, you're like 

272
00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:20,079
shaking your head. 
And then there's just been 

273
00:17:20,079 --> 00:17:23,720
rumors circulating that she's 
difficult to work with and that 

274
00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:27,560
she's mean to the staff. 
And I don't, I don't, I don't 

275
00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:31,800
really put stock in such things,
especially like mean to the 

276
00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:34,040
staff and like stuff like that, 
like that's. 

277
00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:37,720
Yeah, yeah. 
It's giving Meghan Markle. 

278
00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:41,160
I was just like, we don't really
like. 

279
00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:44,680
Meghan Markle. 
The most? 

280
00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:51,480
Controversial like royal OK. 
In terms of like she's mean to 

281
00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:55,600
the stuff, she's a hard worker 
or she's like she's really 

282
00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:59,600
domineering and it's like, I 
don't know. 

283
00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:03,840
I, I feel like some of the 
controversies are why are we all

284
00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:08,360
up in this business? 
Honestly, just just focus on the

285
00:18:08,360 --> 00:18:11,440
actress and what they bringing 
to the dramas. 

286
00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:15,840
Obviously stuff that is terrible
that people need to know about 

287
00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:20,080
and people need to be 
accountable, but nothing about 

288
00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:24,920
the Soya G drama put me off her 
as an actress. 

289
00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:28,320
And I agree with Nodi, I think 
she's a really good actress. 

290
00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:33,960
She's one of the few that I feel
takes takes me to a deeper level

291
00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:36,440
in the way that she represents 
the character. 

292
00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:41,800
She has a lot of depth in her 
acting so I'm really glad that 

293
00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:45,600
she's now without Scandal, but I
know some listeners may have 

294
00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:50,200
thought she's she deserved the 
cancelling but I personally I'm 

295
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:53,160
happy to see her back. 
Lily's way. 

296
00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:58,320
I mean, I was just going to say 
women in general are held to a 

297
00:18:58,360 --> 00:19:02,280
much higher standard. 
And someone could just be an 

298
00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:07,600
assertive person who sets very 
clear boundaries and calls out 

299
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:11,240
BS, you know, very freely, very 
easily. 

300
00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:16,160
And that can be taken and spun 
into some narrative about, oh, 

301
00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:19,120
she's so difficult to work with.
Oh, she's mean, She's this. 

302
00:19:19,120 --> 00:19:23,680
And I'm like, you know what? 
OK, we all have our opinions 

303
00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,440
about that, but is it worth 
canceling someone over? 

304
00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:28,720
Again, these are people. 
I don't know these people from a

305
00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,760
slice of bread. 
So yes, it could be that she 

306
00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:35,360
really is like that. 
But when everyone is getting so 

307
00:19:35,360 --> 00:19:38,120
worked up, you know, like you're
whipping people up into a frenzy

308
00:19:38,120 --> 00:19:40,840
over rumors of how she behaved 
on set. 

309
00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:43,000
I'm just kind of like, we take 
it with a grain of salt. 

310
00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:46,520
Exactly, exactly. 
I couldn't have said it better. 

311
00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:50,120
She really blew me away and 
saved me, which is an OCN drama 

312
00:19:50,120 --> 00:19:54,160
from 2017 about her family 
getting sucked into a cult. 

313
00:19:55,120 --> 00:19:59,080
And that was a very triggering 
drama for me. 

314
00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:02,800
And I came out on the other side
thinking she's phenomenal. 

315
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:07,400
And I don't recommend that drama
lightly it you have to go into 

316
00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:09,920
it knowing that it's very 
disturbing. 

317
00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:13,040
So it's an ocean drama that 
should tell you a lot. 

318
00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:18,960
But the scandal with her doesn't
feel to me that I wouldn't call 

319
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:21,600
that a scandal. 
You know what I'm saying? 

320
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:25,720
I'm just like, OK, some text 
messages got out and it looks a 

321
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:31,400
little. 
But to semi blacklisted, like 

322
00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:33,200
she doesn't have that many 
shows. 

323
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:36,320
Yeah, right. 
Like if you look at her for 

324
00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,400
omography, I'm like, she's not 
been working that often. 

325
00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:41,600
Yeah. 
I'm just going to leave that out

326
00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,040
there. 
So we're finally at Kim SU Hyun.

327
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:50,000
He plays Moon Kante, the male 
lead, and he's done 4 movies, a 

328
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,240
few TV shows including Dream 
High from 2011, The Moon, 

329
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:57,560
Embracing the Sun, My Love from 
the Star, the Producers, One 

330
00:20:57,560 --> 00:20:59,960
Ordinary Day, Queen of Tears 
from last year, which did 

331
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,040
gangbusters. 
Everybody and their mom was 

332
00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:04,320
watching Queen of Tears. 
It was the number one show 

333
00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:09,440
everywhere. 
We have reviews on Dream High, 

334
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:12,440
My Love from the Star, and of 
course he did a cameo in Crash 

335
00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:14,240
Landing on Youth. 
And of course there is an 

336
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:20,440
episode on on Chloe Kim SU Hyun.
We have a taker for what's aged 

337
00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:25,200
the worst about this show. 
We have to as quickly and as 

338
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:27,040
definitely as we can, unpack the
scandal. 

339
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:32,320
So when I resolved to cover it's
OK to not be OK, and I tapped 

340
00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:37,880
you guys to guess on this, I had
no earthly idea that all this 

341
00:21:38,120 --> 00:21:39,960
would surface. 
I see you guys kind of like 

342
00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,920
chuckling. 
Here's what went down, Kim said 

343
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:49,520
on is a child actor who is most 
famous for being in the amazing 

344
00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:51,280
movie The Man from Nowhere with 
Moenbin. 

345
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:55,040
She'd grown up into a young 
woman and was booking acting 

346
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,880
gigs like the K drama 
Bloodhounds before she got 

347
00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:01,680
busted for a DUI. 
She hit an electricity pole and 

348
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:03,120
knocked out power to a bunch of 
buildings. 

349
00:22:03,120 --> 00:22:07,200
She lost everything because of 
this scandal, dropped from 

350
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,680
projects and endorsements, even 
though she apologized profusely,

351
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:14,800
paid the fines and compensated 
the stores that were damaged due

352
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:18,760
to the malicious online 
harassment, including these 

353
00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:22,600
Youtubers, these cyber Lucas who
make their money off of false 

354
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:24,560
information and salacious 
gossip. 

355
00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:27,840
She sadly committed suicide 
earlier this year. 

356
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:33,920
February 2025. 
Now the emerging story has Kim 

357
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:38,200
Sukhyon at the center of this. 
There were already dating rumors

358
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:42,800
between Kim Seron and Kim SU 
Hyun stemming from her posting 

359
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,440
this intimate photo of them to 
her Instagram last year. 

360
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:50,160
While Queen of Tears was airing,
their faces were touching side 

361
00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:53,600
by side. 
The Korean netizens went wild. 

362
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:58,360
They were angry with her because
how dare she try to take him 

363
00:22:58,360 --> 00:23:00,960
down with her because she was 
still in the midst of her 

364
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:05,120
cancellation. 
But now, according to The Korea 

365
00:23:05,120 --> 00:23:09,800
Times, this controversy 
reignited when YouTube channel 

366
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:14,680
Hover Lab, better known as 
Carocedo Institute, featured Kim

367
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:18,120
Seron's aunt who claimed the 
actress had a six year 

368
00:23:18,120 --> 00:23:22,800
relationship with Kim SU Hyun 
starting at age 15, and accused 

369
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:26,400
his agency of financial 
misconduct and lack of support 

370
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:31,120
after her 2022 DUI scandal. 
The allegations, especially 

371
00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:34,720
about the underage relationship,
have sparked intense scrutiny, 

372
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,320
with resurfaced photos and 
videos adding to the debate 

373
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,280
pause. 
There are now many photos 

374
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,800
circulating of Kim SU Hyon 
kissing Kim Saton on the cheek. 

375
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,640
There's a screenshot of a text 
message Kim Saton sent to her 

376
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:51,040
cousin fully detailing the six 
year relationship. 

377
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,560
There's a screenshot of a text 
message Kim Saton sent to Kim 

378
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:58,200
Saton about paying back the 
penalties from the drama 

379
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,560
Bloodhounds in the amount of 
like 700 million, one of which 

380
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:06,960
is about $500,000 because his 
agency allegedly demanded she 

381
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,240
pay it all back. 
They sent her a legal notice 

382
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:13,200
threatening her with escalating 
legal action and she could not 

383
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,400
pay this back in a lump sum 
immediately as she was 

384
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,520
struggling financially. 
One video is of him doing an 

385
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:23,560
interview alongside actress Kim 
Yu Jong, who is also 12 years 

386
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:27,520
younger than him, where he says 
she's matured and maybe he'll 

387
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:33,280
meet her as a partner one day. 
And another video is of a 2013 

388
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,520
interview he did where he says 
when he's 41 he wants to marry a

389
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:41,400
21 year old, which is gross. 
It gives credence to him maybe 

390
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:45,360
seeking out a younger girl, 
perhaps 112 years his junior and

391
00:24:45,360 --> 00:24:48,760
only 15. 
Just mounting evidence. 

392
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,520
Some of it just circumstantial 
like the ones that I've 

393
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,120
mentioned. 
Back to the Times article. 

394
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,720
Public interest grew not just 
from the YouTube channel, but 

395
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,520
from the family's involvement, 
lending credibility to the 

396
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,080
claims. 
Gold medallist firmly deny the 

397
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,000
accusations, calling them 
clearly fabricated and wholly 

398
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,840
unacceptable, and vowed strong 
legal action against the 

399
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:14,240
malicious falsehoods. 
Then dispatch entered the chat 

400
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,440
with receipts confirming the six
year relationship and more. 

401
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,720
We were originally going to get 
a follow up statement in a week 

402
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:27,240
from gold medalist, that's Kim 
SU Hyun's agency, the one he 

403
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:32,680
himself started with his cousin.
But we ended up getting one just

404
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:37,000
a couple of days ago. 
Kim SU Hyun is now admitting to 

405
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:42,280
having a relationship with Kim 
Seton, but he says it was from 

406
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:50,320
summer 2019 to fall 2020 when 
she was firmly legal an adult. 

407
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,840
They're saying Kim SU Hyun is 
suffering mentally due to the 

408
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:58,280
accusation that he's to blame 
for her suicide. 

409
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:01,760
And the list goes on for 
refuting the evidence and claims

410
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:05,840
based on various technicalities.
Here's what we know for sure. 

411
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:10,960
Korean Youtubers are notorious 
for telling lies and spreading 

412
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:14,320
malicious gossip. 
The media can be bought. 

413
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:19,040
Dispatch can be silenced. 
Fans are generally more 

414
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,440
forgiving and biased toward 
handsome male celebrities and 

415
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:26,080
female celebrities, often 
defending problematic 

416
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,840
individuals. 
Kim Sodon committed suicide on 

417
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:34,240
Kim SU Hyun's birthday. 
Kim SU Hyun did not attend her 

418
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,520
funeral despite her being signed
to his agency. 

419
00:26:38,120 --> 00:26:44,880
They did 100% date and they do 
100% have a 12 year age gap. 

420
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:50,640
If they dated when he says they 
dated that would make him 31 and

421
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:55,280
her 19. 
Here's what I know personally. 

422
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,200
The whole thing stinks to high 
heaven. 

423
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:03,560
And whether or not any charges 
have been filed, whether or not 

424
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:08,320
anyone has been found guilty in 
a civil or criminal case, Kim SU

425
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:12,360
Kyong has been deemed guilty in 
the court of public opinion and 

426
00:27:12,360 --> 00:27:14,040
that's the only one that counts 
nowadays. 

427
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:18,760
One party, the presumed victim, 
cannot speak for herself 

428
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,960
anymore. 
I'm not here to sensationalize 

429
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,640
what is and has already been 
sensationalized and what is 

430
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:28,320
already a tragedy. 
To me, the worst has already 

431
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,680
happened, Kim said on took her 
own life. 

432
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:38,240
So whatever outrage you feel, 
whatever happens now, she won't 

433
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:40,840
receive help. 
Justice is going to come too 

434
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,960
late. 
Lots of people spoke to me in my

435
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,000
DMS. 
There was a lot of confusion, a 

436
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,080
lot of anger. 
And I understand. 

437
00:27:51,120 --> 00:27:55,600
This is a beloved actor, someone
we've all allowed into our homes

438
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:57,680
and lives through the magic of 
television. 

439
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,360
This is someone we've all fallen
head over heels for and some 

440
00:28:01,360 --> 00:28:04,320
drama or another. 
It feels like Kim SU Hyun has 

441
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:09,800
betrayed the public's trust. 
We're upset that he not only did

442
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:15,080
something morally wrong, it's 
that he allegedly is a 

443
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,800
paedophile. 
He's a predator, he groomed a 

444
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:19,680
child. 
It's abhorrent. 

445
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:24,920
It's echoing really sad stories 
that we've heard before and this

446
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:28,160
list is non exhaustive. 
So we've got R Kelly and 

447
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:32,760
Aaliyah, Beyoncé and Jay-Z, Demi
Lovato and Wilmer Valderrama, 

448
00:28:33,360 --> 00:28:38,000
Kylie Jenner and Tyga Steven 
Tyler of Aerosmith, who openly 

449
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,240
admitted in his memoir to having
sex with a 16 year old. 

450
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,960
He was 26 at the time, and her 
parents apparently fell in love 

451
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,320
with him and signed over 
guardianship to him so he could 

452
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:50,200
take her on tour. 
His band has a themed ride at 

453
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:54,120
Disney World. 
Aaron Taylor Johnson and his now

454
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:59,000
wife who have a 24 year age gap.
Milo Ventimiglia and Hayden 

455
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,760
Panettiere. 
They announced they were dating 

456
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,680
when she was barely 18 and he 
was 29. 

457
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,280
Johnny Depp and Winona Ryder. 
He described it as love, his 

458
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,360
first sight. 
She was 17 and he was 26. 

459
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,200
Joel Madden and Hillary frickin 
Duff. 

460
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,000
She was 16 and he was in his mid
20s. 

461
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:21,640
Paul Walker at the time of his 
death he was dating a 23 year 

462
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,280
old. 
They had met and started dating 

463
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:28,840
when she was 16. 
My least favorite one Céline 

464
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:33,000
Dion because I love Celine 
Céline Dion and her freaking old

465
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:39,200
bag of a manager, Renee. 
He was 38, married when he met 

466
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:43,640
12 year old Celine and they she 
was the other woman. 

467
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,800
They didn't start dating 
quotation marks until she was 

468
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:52,200
19. 
This isn't to normalize this 

469
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:56,040
behavior. 
This is to say that our society 

470
00:29:56,040 --> 00:30:01,440
today is a lot louder about 
calling out this shit nowadays 

471
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:05,960
than it has ever been. 
And a lot of victims in these 

472
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:10,360
cases will often swear up and 
down that they're not victims. 

473
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:14,480
They were not groomed. 
It's always been and always will

474
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:19,560
be morally repugnant, but here's
what I want to leave you with. 

475
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:25,920
I want to encourage everyone to 
really wrestle with how you view

476
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:30,960
celebrities, actors, K pop 
idols, whoever. 

477
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:36,360
Because if you see them on your 
screen in any capacity, they're 

478
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:41,320
working. 
Those variety shows that are you

479
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,280
believe it. 
They're so good at letting you 

480
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,480
see their true personality. 
They're working. 

481
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:51,280
It's a job. 
Nobody, and I mean nobody, is 

482
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:55,680
perfect. 
And yes, the Korean moral 

483
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,800
perfection standard for their 
celebrities is wrong. 

484
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:02,600
It can never be achieved. 
But hear me on this. 

485
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:07,800
I guarantee you that every 
single celebrity has done 

486
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:12,440
something, has said something, 
even believed something that 

487
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,800
would effectively end their 
career if it got out. 

488
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,680
We tend to think other people 
live similar lives to us. 

489
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,880
This is not true. 
The sooner you believe everyone,

490
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:29,680
even your favorite actor, is a 
freak behind closed doors, the 

491
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:33,080
better you will be to weather 
these inevitable scandals. 

492
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:36,320
You'll be disappointed, but not 
surprised. 

493
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:42,680
Here's something else I know. 
Art in any form, whether it's 

494
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:47,760
films, television, music, books,
drawing, painting, all of it is 

495
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,760
important. 
It gives us comfort in times of 

496
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:52,560
need. 
It helps us make meaning of our 

497
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:56,360
lives, teaches us new things, 
brightens our days. 

498
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,920
It entertains us. 
And a great show or a great 

499
00:31:59,920 --> 00:32:02,160
performance will always be 
great. 

500
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,240
Two things can be true at the 
same time. 

501
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:09,040
A problematic individual can 
make the most moving art. 

502
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:13,200
How you view these stories and 
characters going forward is up 

503
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,280
to you. 
If you like them, still great. 

504
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,800
If you need some time away, 
that's fine. 

505
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,480
That's fine too. 
If you want to boycott because 

506
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:29,760
you feel disgusted, fine. 
Now I saw a ton of people 

507
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,200
chewing up commenters on TikTok 
who we're talking about. 

508
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:35,600
Separate the art from the 
artist. 

509
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:40,240
Do not fucking do that. 
That's childish to insult and 

510
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:43,120
bully someone for wanting to 
compartmentalize. 

511
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:47,920
So please stop with this virtue 
signaling and moral superiority.

512
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:53,800
In this episode, we will try to 
unpack and review this show from

513
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:58,320
as unbiased a perspective we can
muster, and this sort of feels 

514
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:00,880
like reviewing The Cosby Show 
the week the Bill Cosby scandal 

515
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,320
hit. 
This is a little difficult, but 

516
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:10,520
we're going to do our best. 
My question to you guys is, do 

517
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,240
you feel the legacy of the show 
has been tainted? 

518
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:21,160
Thank you for, you know, just 
for, for sharing a bit of a 

519
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,400
recap of what's been going on. 
And just, you know, obviously, 

520
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:29,320
as you said, this is a it's 
delicate and controversial. 

521
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:33,760
It's unfolding as we speak. 
And so just to echo something 

522
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:38,440
you said at the beginning of the
show, I am happy to tussle with 

523
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:42,040
anyone in our DMS to really get 
into it. 

524
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:48,000
And I will say something that I 
always grapple with is how to 

525
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:49,800
separate the art from the 
artist. 

526
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:55,080
And I think for me, it may be 
too soon to say if the legacy of

527
00:33:55,080 --> 00:34:00,520
the show has been tainted. 
I think I personally did pause, 

528
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,640
as you know, as I mentioned, I 
was, I started re watching so I 

529
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:05,960
could come here. 
You know, I was excited as you 

530
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,800
said, who who would have known 
this would happen? 

531
00:34:10,159 --> 00:34:12,840
And I really paused because I 
was like, I can't, I'm just 

532
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:16,159
having in the in the last week 
or so. 

533
00:34:16,159 --> 00:34:18,440
I was just like, I don't know. 
I don't know that I can watch 

534
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:23,960
this and fully give it the I 
don't know. 

535
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:29,320
Yeah, my, I had a distorted kind
of experience for the remaining 

536
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:31,120
episodes that I still had to 
watch. 

537
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,280
But then Mama didn't raise no 
quitter. 

538
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:38,400
I was like, I'm trying to show 
up to Jess's podcast because, 

539
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:42,120
again, we've been wanting to 
come and connect with you over a

540
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:45,199
show like this. 
And so it's like, OK, can I, for

541
00:34:45,199 --> 00:34:47,800
the purposes of this episode, do
that? 

542
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:52,639
I think there's a lot that can 
be said about the the 

543
00:34:52,639 --> 00:34:54,800
characters, which is what I 
would love to focus on. 

544
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:58,000
And we'll do our best. 
I think it's too soon to say 

545
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,680
whether or not the the legacy of
the show will be tainted. 

546
00:35:01,720 --> 00:35:06,560
But I can say that when I first 
watched it, that experience was 

547
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:09,920
it was a very pure experience, 
Right. 

548
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:14,480
And now it's it's different. 
But I am trying to keep an open 

549
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,400
mind for for our review here. 
Yeah. 

550
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,560
Yeah. 
Oh, something, just something 

551
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:24,440
you said that I wanted to double
click on was just about, you 

552
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:25,960
know, we don't know these 
people. 

553
00:35:26,720 --> 00:35:28,240
We don't have personal 
relationships. 

554
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:31,960
And I think something I always 
joke about with with Mel and 

555
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:37,920
some other friends is sometimes 
when I am excited about an 

556
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,320
artist, I'm like, you know what?
Stay embarrassed. 

557
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:42,920
You'll find out why later. 
You know what I mean? 

558
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,240
Because literally anything can 
happen. 

559
00:35:45,240 --> 00:35:46,840
And it's like, you know what? 
Fair. 

560
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,000
Yeah, not fair, but they're 
human. 

561
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:53,200
Things happen, and you just deal
with your disappointment. 

562
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:54,840
And. 
Yeah. 

563
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:59,400
And move on. 
Like, I don't know how to say 

564
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:03,160
it. 
Like it sucks, let's move on. 

565
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:11,280
Yeah, and I cannot underline 
Double Click Echo enough that 

566
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:15,960
the age of glorifying and 
idolizing celebrities is gone. 

567
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:21,120
Like that was when we were in 
our early teens and we had our 

568
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:23,680
posters of Backstreet Boys, and 
we only got that. 

569
00:36:23,720 --> 00:36:27,120
We only got to know about them 
in our monthly People magazine 

570
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:31,240
subscription. 
But now with all the technology 

571
00:36:31,240 --> 00:36:36,240
that exists and everything that 
comes out about celebrities, 

572
00:36:36,240 --> 00:36:40,960
that is actually normal. 
People are great, people are 

573
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:43,240
gross sometimes. 
Like then. 

574
00:36:43,240 --> 00:36:46,840
Now we just have access to that 
information just at our 

575
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:49,760
fingertips. 
Every day You go on Twitter and 

576
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:54,120
you find out that your fave is 
actually really terrible. 

577
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:59,360
And for me, I would just 
encourage us to have a healthy 

578
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:04,640
relationship with celebrity and 
make sure that we are aware that

579
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:09,760
they are portraying characters. 
They are portraying a certain 

580
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:13,800
lifestyle that should appeal to 
us, but that is not necessarily 

581
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,920
what's real. 
And I think when these sort of 

582
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:23,080
scandals come out, it's you 
don't get sucked into this and, 

583
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,880
you know, think your world has 
fallen apart because they are 

584
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:31,000
just, they are just humans. 
And, you know, they will be 

585
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,320
accountable to who they are 
accountable to. 

586
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:38,560
But yeah. 
And whether that has changed the

587
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:44,880
way the legacy of it's OK to not
be OK for me personally, it has.

588
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,960
The way I viewed it after this 
information came out is a bit 

589
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,680
different than what I did the 
first time. 

590
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:59,120
I think I, I was a little more 
unfortunately, like, oh, I'm so 

591
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:02,080
sad. 
I'm so disappointed by this 

592
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:06,120
actor, but not in a way that 
would make me cancel it or not 

593
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:10,800
watch it or not recommend it or 
just be, you know, writing in 

594
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,640
the blogs about it. 
It's just like, oh, this is what

595
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:17,640
I know about this. 
This actor is not great. 

596
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:21,480
Moving on. 
Like the key headline is moving 

597
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:28,160
on and just hoping that the 
powers that be in the circle of 

598
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:32,560
celebrity deal with it. 
But it's not for me to be 

599
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:38,920
sending out any hate tweets or, 
you know, being all caught up 

600
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,360
about it. 
Sorry that was all jumbled up, 

601
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:45,680
but I hope the message came out 
that let's stop glorifying 

602
00:38:45,720 --> 00:38:50,720
celebrities honestly. 
Yep, I agree. 

603
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:55,520
I agree completely. 
The next question that I have is

604
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:59,120
how did you like this show? 
And I don't know if you want to 

605
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:04,360
split it up between before 
Scandal and after Scandal or if 

606
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:08,920
you just want to kind of give 
your overall like, is it a good 

607
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:14,720
show to you or not? 
I really I think I enjoyed this 

608
00:39:14,720 --> 00:39:20,240
show because it had so many 
themes that felt when I first 

609
00:39:20,240 --> 00:39:22,720
watched it. 
This was one of my earlier 

610
00:39:22,720 --> 00:39:25,600
dramas. 
I'm so new, relatively new when 

611
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:28,640
I think about you both. 
I'm relatively new to K dramas 

612
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:33,640
and I think when I watched it, I
was the themes of family 

613
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:37,560
healing, Oh my gosh. 
And you know just the cast. 

614
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:41,000
There's so many things. 
I think I really, I appreciate 

615
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:45,440
it, appreciate it so much about 
this drama and how there are 

616
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:49,880
some really light moments 
coupled with obviously the 

617
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:54,520
heavier parts where it's like 
these people are walking bags of

618
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:59,680
trauma and we need to get to a 
point where we understand what's

619
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:01,720
going on. 
And, you know, yeah, just sort 

620
00:40:01,720 --> 00:40:04,800
of how are they navigating 
through life while carrying so 

621
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:06,760
much baggage, if that makes 
sense. 

622
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,640
So I think. 
Just overall, I think it's it's 

623
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:15,000
such a powerful, I experienced 
it as a really powerful story 

624
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:20,160
about family relationships, 
trauma, healing and yeah. 

625
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:26,080
Yeah, yeah, no. 
I I think that it's such a great

626
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:28,440
drama. 
When I watched it, I truly 

627
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:33,520
enjoyed it and I think 
retrospectively it feels like 

628
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:38,320
such a good drama because 
they've been few that have left 

629
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:41,600
an impact after. 
It's OK to not be OK. 

630
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:47,000
Like very few dramas from that 
time period that I look back and

631
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:51,280
I really can remember most of 
the story, can remember the 

632
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:57,240
characters and it just had so 
many levels of depth to it. 

633
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:05,080
And I, I particularly remember 
feeling like Soyaji's character 

634
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:10,120
Munyang was a little bit 
different to what we were used 

635
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:12,600
to. 
She was, she almost portrayed 

636
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:17,320
the male stereotype of what K 
dramas represent. 

637
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:21,440
She was the one who was cold. 
She was the one who seemed like 

638
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:23,560
she was not emotionally 
available. 

639
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:28,000
And I remember that being that 
dynamic being very interesting 

640
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:31,840
to me and just how the three of 
them had great chemistry 

641
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:34,920
together. 
Yeah, I enjoyed the drama very 

642
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:38,240
much. 
Yeah, for me, I also really 

643
00:41:38,240 --> 00:41:42,800
enjoyed the drama and I actually
have a time capsule blog review 

644
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:47,800
up on the blog that I revisited 
a couple couple weeks ago. 

645
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:51,280
I like reread it and I was like,
Oh my God, like this is perfect 

646
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:52,920
because I know exactly what I 
thought. 

647
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:55,720
And I actually at the beginning 
was like kind of trying to 

648
00:41:55,720 --> 00:41:58,640
downplay how much I loved it. 
And then I was like, anyway, I 

649
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:00,240
really love the show. 
Sorry about it. 

650
00:42:00,240 --> 00:42:03,480
Like, and I think I ended up 
giving it like 4 stars out of 

651
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,840
five. 
What really resonated with me 

652
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:10,560
was a lot of the novelty of it, 
right? 

653
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:13,680
There's a lot of cool puzzle 
pieces, a lot of novelty puzzle 

654
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:16,480
pieces. 
There's the humor and lightness 

655
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,960
and openness throughout the show
that's really reminiscent of 

656
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:22,760
just like a typical K drama. 
And then there's a lot of 

657
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:27,000
whimsical and fairy tale in it. 
And the aesthetics are very 

658
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:29,320
gothic. 
It's almost like gothic light. 

659
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:33,800
And if you've never seen any Tim
Burton or Guillermo del Toro, 

660
00:42:34,240 --> 00:42:37,880
then the stop motion animation 
style in the premiere episode is

661
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:41,040
going to really wow you. 
And these types of elements, her

662
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:45,360
wardrobe, all of these things 
are really novel. 

663
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:48,120
These are new, right? 
You might not have seen these in

664
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:52,120
other K dramas. 
And the really big emphasis 

665
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:56,240
throughout the show on mental 
health, healing and working 

666
00:42:56,240 --> 00:43:01,400
through mental illness is a big 
step in the right direction for 

667
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:06,920
Korean society and for K dramas.
It's not quite was not quite as 

668
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:10,160
prevalent five years ago in K 
dramas. 

669
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:13,040
There had been some K dramas 
that dealt with mental health 

670
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:17,600
and mental illness, but not like
we see today like every other K 

671
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:21,400
drama might have something to do
with somebody struggling and 

672
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:27,560
they'll put a lot of jargon in 
there that is psychoanalyzing 

673
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:29,800
these characters in some way, 
shape or fashion. 

674
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:33,440
Mental health jargon is really 
big nowadays, more so than even 

675
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:36,080
five years ago when this thing 
aired. 

676
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:39,600
And so even I, I just said stuff
like triggering, like 

677
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:41,320
triggering. 
We're we're saying that now, but

678
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:44,400
that's therapy. 
Language is really normalized 

679
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:49,320
now. 
And K dramas like this are kind 

680
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:55,360
of breaking new ground in Korea.
And the portrayal of an autistic

681
00:43:55,360 --> 00:44:01,440
character like old Jung Sei's 
character Sante was amazing, 

682
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:04,080
right? 
Like you've not seen something 

683
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:07,520
like that in AK drama. 
You might have seen it every so 

684
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:11,840
often, but you know, now you 
have extraordinary Attorney Wu. 

685
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:15,040
You have the the kid from Moved 
to Heaven. 

686
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:18,600
You have a lot of different 
representation now than you had 

687
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:22,120
before, even even before this 
show. 

688
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:27,280
So you have a veteran actor, 
Ojiang SE, playing this brother,

689
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:30,400
older brother Ahyung, who's got 
ASD. 

690
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:33,320
He's got autism. 
It comes out during the 

691
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:37,080
pandemic, maybe people being 
confined, being away from 

692
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:41,520
family, isolated, confronting 
their mortality in ways we'd 

693
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:45,160
never reckon with before. 
I feel like it made the 

694
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:49,120
sentimental parts of the show 
really hit right, because the 

695
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:53,880
sentimentality of cage dramas is
something very unique to it. 

696
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:57,000
We don't have such sentimental 
shows in the West, right? 

697
00:44:58,040 --> 00:44:59,600
Everything is kind of at arm's 
length. 

698
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:05,280
Yeah, just just as you said that
I remembered how when we watched

699
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:10,480
this and reviewed it, there's, I
remember talking about how after

700
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:14,200
every episode we would just sort
of be in each other's DMS just 

701
00:45:14,720 --> 00:45:17,120
trying to like just unpacking 
everything. 

702
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:21,280
And one of the things that we 
talked about was how, you know, 

703
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:25,040
it was really because we were 
watching it with our third 

704
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:28,640
podcast member, Nomsa. 
I think we were watching it. 

705
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:30,360
We might have watched it after 
meal. 

706
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:31,600
I can't tell. 
I can't remember. 

707
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,200
But we were watching it 
together. 

708
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:37,880
And so there was just that this 
drama, really, it just brought 

709
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:39,440
us together. 
And it's like we're on this 

710
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:42,560
journey together with these 
characters. 

711
00:45:42,720 --> 00:45:47,880
And yeah, I I was living in 
another country, you know, 

712
00:45:48,240 --> 00:45:51,400
isolating by myself. 
And so really, K dramas were 

713
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:54,120
such a. 
Unifying. 

714
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:57,080
Yeah, yeah. 
I was just like, Oh my, like 

715
00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:59,600
this makes me feel connected to 
other people. 

716
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:01,160
That's when I started watching K
dramas. 

717
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:05,200
And so, yeah, it's, it feels 
really special because of that, 

718
00:46:05,240 --> 00:46:08,320
that sentimentality that you are
that you are talking about. 

719
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:11,280
Yeah, yeah. 
I had someone message me and 

720
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:14,680
say, you know, good luck on the 
episode because of everything 

721
00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:17,320
going on. 
And I'm just pissed off because 

722
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:20,240
it's OK to not be OK. 
It's such an important drama for

723
00:46:20,240 --> 00:46:23,440
autistic representation. 
It's the best autistic character

724
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:26,160
I've seen, which reflects my own
experience of it. 

725
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:29,680
And it's so annoying to me that 
because of Kim, meaning Kim SU 

726
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:31,960
Hyun, it'll get cancelled as a 
drama. 

727
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:35,840
And I wondered how you guys felt
about the autistic 

728
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:39,120
representation And Ochung says 
performance. 

729
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:43,880
I thought that it was a great 
representation, but I remember 

730
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:46,880
when we were recording this 
episode as well as it like 

731
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:50,400
slowly comes back to me, we also
struggled just the same way we 

732
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:53,240
struggled struggled with 
Extraordinary Attorney Wu 

733
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:57,880
around. 
It was great and it felt like it

734
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:03,280
was really good representation, 
but we're not autistic and it 

735
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:05,200
would be. 
We were always saying it would 

736
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:08,080
be great to hear what the 
autistic community thinks about 

737
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:12,080
that representation and if they 
felt that it was genuine and it 

738
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:18,440
was true and if it was something
that they could get behind as 

739
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:22,320
just objectively speaking, it 
felt like he did a really good 

740
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:26,480
job of that. 
But I would never confidently be

741
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:32,720
the the opinion holder of that. 
Yeah, that's definitely where we

742
00:47:32,720 --> 00:47:35,280
landed. 
But sorry, just to veer us off a

743
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:40,880
little bit back to the unifying 
nature of it's OK to not be OK. 

744
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:45,560
I also thought that every 
element of the show was so 

745
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:50,200
intentional from the soundtrack,
which was so good. 

746
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:53,280
That was tea is unassailable. 
It's amazing. 

747
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:56,920
So good. 
And also the fairy tales. 

748
00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:01,800
I remember trying to buy those 
fairy tale books and how they 

749
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:06,240
was so well weaved into the 
stories of the three main 

750
00:48:06,240 --> 00:48:10,720
characters and it really felt 
like the writers was so 

751
00:48:10,720 --> 00:48:14,400
intentional about everything 
that they were representing in 

752
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:18,280
every single episode. 
I also loved that there was the 

753
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:23,400
overarching story of the the 
three leads, but almost every 

754
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:26,640
other episode there was also 
like a smaller story about a 

755
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:30,480
mental health patients and, and 
what they were going through. 

756
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:34,120
And that never took away from 
the broader story. 

757
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:38,880
It always added and you always 
you had these guest stars come 

758
00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:44,240
and be the patients and and it 
was also interesting going into 

759
00:48:44,240 --> 00:48:47,560
that and talking about those 
specific characters, like the 

760
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:53,280
one that stands out the most was
the son of the politician who 

761
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:55,640
kept an. 
Early episode, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

762
00:48:56,600 --> 00:49:01,960
Yeah, who kept on flashing 
people and just how his story 

763
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:06,760
was so sad as it unraveled and 
how Munyang responded to his 

764
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:08,800
story. 
First you're like, oh, she's 

765
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:12,440
cold and she's manipulative. 
And then you kind of realize 

766
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:16,760
that she relates to him and she 
wants to help him, even though 

767
00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:21,120
she may not be, you know, 
representing that in the best 

768
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:23,800
way. 
I really, I really love those 

769
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:26,200
stories. 
So I really digress from your 

770
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:27,680
question. 
Yes, but just really. 

771
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:29,480
No it's fine. 
I'm actually going to recenter 

772
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:31,720
us now because I'm looking 
through the questions that I got

773
00:49:31,720 --> 00:49:35,360
from social media and someone 
asked a really interesting 

774
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:37,840
question that I'm not even sure 
how to answer. 

775
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:41,440
Someone asked. 
This might be a hot take, but 

776
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:44,160
I'd love to get your opinion on 
whether or not it's time for K 

777
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:48,560
dramas to take a big step toward
disability inclusion on screen. 

778
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:53,760
O Jiang SE was fantastic as Moon
Sante, and we saw a great 

779
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:56,480
performance in Extraordinary 
Attorney Wu as well. 

780
00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:00,000
But could it be time for Korea 
to work on their inclusion 

781
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:02,440
efforts with actors of various 
abilities? 

782
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:05,040
Slash disabilities? 
Question Mark. 

783
00:50:05,240 --> 00:50:10,320
Yes, yes, yes. 
And I think this is this is 

784
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:14,320
actually, this was part of our 
discussion in our review in 2021

785
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:16,960
where we said, you know, great 
that. 

786
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:21,920
And sometimes part of the 
evolution or movement towards 

787
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:26,120
true representation could start 
with a really well respected 

788
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:30,320
actor doing a really great job 
of that. 

789
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:34,800
And then we say, OK, but let's 
actually look at people who 

790
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:39,240
actually have these lived 
experiences and have them play 

791
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:42,400
these these characters because 
then then the acting is just 

792
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:47,400
about it's, it's about the 
acting, but I'm not also acting 

793
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:50,960
out the disability or whatever 
the case may be. 

794
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:53,600
So yeah, definitely. 
I totally understand. 

795
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:56,320
I understand where you're coming
from in the West. 

796
00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:58,480
It's, and I said this on the 
Extraordinary Attorney Wu 

797
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:04,320
episode that we did, it's fallen
out of fashion for Hollywood 

798
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:07,640
stars to play people with 
disabilities. 

799
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:14,280
You had so many people coming up
and getting awards for playing 

800
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:17,040
someone with a disability. 
You had like Leonardo DiCaprio 

801
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:21,640
and What's eating Gilbert Grape.
You had Sean Penn and I am Sam, 

802
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:25,440
Tom Hanks and Forrest Gump. 
The list goes on. 

803
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:28,320
And then all of a sudden, like 
in the late 90s, early 2000s, we

804
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:32,160
were like, you know what? 
Maybe this isn't a good idea and

805
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:36,280
we kind of woke up to it not 
being such a great idea. 

806
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:40,040
Maybe it's kind of playing a 
caricature, a real life 

807
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:44,240
disability and struggle, and 
you're not including these 

808
00:51:44,240 --> 00:51:49,520
people in the work, right? 
I would say Korea is going to be

809
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:53,360
really slow on this. 
Personally, I think this is a 

810
00:51:53,360 --> 00:52:00,720
very conservative society, as we
well know, and they quite 

811
00:52:00,720 --> 00:52:04,240
appreciate beautiful people. 
And not to say that the West 

812
00:52:04,240 --> 00:52:09,040
doesn't, that Hollywood doesn't,
but, you know, I was surprised 

813
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:13,520
they even had an actress with 
Downs playing the sister with 

814
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:18,240
Down syndrome in our Blues. 
And I was like, that's amazing. 

815
00:52:18,240 --> 00:52:20,800
I was like floored that they 
even had that. 

816
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:28,080
So, but to have them cast 
someone with ASD in a drama, 

817
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:32,000
which is very demanding, if you 
think of the demands, memorizing

818
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:36,440
lines, Start, Stop when I tell 
you that's very taxing. 

819
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:39,240
You know, on someone with 
autism. 

820
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:42,000
I think it's gonna be very 
difficult for Korea to be like, 

821
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:46,080
yeah, let's do it, let alone 
other disabilities. 

822
00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:50,560
Yeah, when I think about K 
dramas, I think a lot about the 

823
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:54,400
CWI don't know if you guys 
watched a lot of The CW shows, 

824
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:57,120
but I always used to be like. 
Girl, you're talking to the 

825
00:52:57,160 --> 00:53:02,600
right person. 
If you are not, you know, the 

826
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:06,840
stereotypical standard of 
beauty, you will not be hired on

827
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:09,560
The CW. 
And that's how I feel about 

828
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:13,200
Korean dramas. 
And it also, I thought about 

829
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:16,680
that as well when referencing 
only when you're saying, oh, 

830
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:18,680
John, say, has he ever been a 
male lead? 

831
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:24,720
Maybe because he doesn't really 
fit into that Kim Soo Hoon type 

832
00:53:24,720 --> 00:53:29,040
of beauty that I don't know the 
TV show producers think the 

833
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:33,200
audiences want to see. 
And connecting that back to 

834
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:37,040
disabilities and to what Jess 
was saying is that there's just 

835
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:41,800
a love for beauty that if you 
don't fit into that, and I say 

836
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:45,960
beauty in exclamation marks 
because we all know that it is 

837
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:53,680
quotation mark because we all 
know that beauty is defined 

838
00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:56,840
differently. 
But I definitely think agree, 

839
00:53:56,840 --> 00:54:00,120
just that it might. 
It might take a while, but I 

840
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:02,520
hope it doesn't. 
I hope they surprise us. 

841
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:08,520
We talked about Soyaji's 
character and people had a lot 

842
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:11,720
to say and things that I hadn't 
even thought of. 

843
00:54:12,240 --> 00:54:16,040
I don't know if you guys want to
guess at what people were upset 

844
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:19,200
about her character about or if 
you just want me to read the 

845
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:22,760
comments. 
What that she was a go getter, 

846
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:24,800
she said. 
That's my man, my man, my man, 

847
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:27,800
or. 
That she was harassing him. 

848
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:31,720
Yes, that's exactly it. 
So that she was sexually 

849
00:54:31,720 --> 00:54:34,720
harassing him for about half the
show. 

850
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:38,960
Someone DM Ed me and said if her
character was a male lead, 

851
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:41,240
feminists of the world would be 
outraged. 

852
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:44,640
But she somehow seems to be 
revered and loved. 

853
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:48,040
And again, flawed characters are
fine as long as the redemption 

854
00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:49,800
arc is good. 
But I didn't have the patience 

855
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:52,800
for it and a lot of her 
behaviors put me off. 

856
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:56,680
This person dropped the show. 
Another person said that they 

857
00:54:56,680 --> 00:54:59,440
loved the female lead. 
She's a bit of an anti hero. 

858
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:02,760
She's very unapologetically 
extra and direct. 

859
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:06,000
I like that. 
I like soft female leads, but I 

860
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:08,920
love strong female leads. 
I think she has a lot of 

861
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:12,080
character development. 
It does not take from her being 

862
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:15,560
very morally Gray, but I think 
her being jealous is very on 

863
00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:19,240
brand with how Korea usually 
portrays toxic women. 

864
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:22,200
At the end of the day, I just 
like her because she could not 

865
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:24,520
care less about anyone else but 
them. 

866
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:27,720
Even in the beginning when she 
grabs by the hair of the guy who

867
00:55:27,720 --> 00:55:31,160
yells at the brother, it's very 
right even though not in the 

868
00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:33,520
right way. 
I think when we understand how 

869
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:36,720
she was raised, we can 
understand why she is how she is

870
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:40,040
and still a good person even 
though a bit inside. 

871
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:44,920
So anyway, Long story short, 
people were screaming sexual 

872
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:49,320
harassment, calling sexual 
harassment on Soya G's Moon 

873
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:52,240
Young. 
What say you to those 

874
00:55:52,240 --> 00:55:57,960
accusations? 
Yes, and how many male leads 

875
00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:04,120
have we seen do this? 
Like I I think the second 

876
00:56:04,240 --> 00:56:08,720
comment you read probably 
captures or reflects more of my 

877
00:56:08,720 --> 00:56:13,240
stance on so AGI think she is. 
She is a complex character. 

878
00:56:13,240 --> 00:56:18,800
She's problematic in many ways, 
but also I'm like, yeah, we're 

879
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:23,360
used to. 
We're not used to seeing like, I

880
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:25,520
don't know how. 
To I I triggered you, I didn't 

881
00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:29,160
I. 
I'm triggered and you know what?

882
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:31,680
I support all women's rights and
wrongs. 

883
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:38,960
And so yes, I hear all this. 
But again, I think she's 

884
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:41,800
especially at that time for me, 
it was like, OK, this is a 

885
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:45,760
different kind of the female 
character that we're seeing on 

886
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:48,160
screen. 
She's so problematic in so many 

887
00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:51,880
ways, but she's also she's she's
multi dimensional. 

888
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:55,160
There's so many layers to it. 
Yes, we can talk about how she's

889
00:56:55,160 --> 00:57:01,040
out here grabbing people's hair 
or you know, she's undressing 

890
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:04,760
Gante with her eyes or whatever,
all those things. 

891
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:08,080
Yes, yes, yes. 
And I think it's a yes and for 

892
00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:08,880
me. 
OK. 

893
00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:13,880
I mean, I did find her a bit 
annoying, but not for the sexual

894
00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:17,040
harassment accusations. 
I was like, oh, OK. 

895
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:21,960
Yeah, I I I didn't, I thought 
she was a great character. 

896
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:24,200
Would she be my friend? 
I don't know. 

897
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:29,400
You know, I am, I am one of 
those people that, you know, 

898
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:32,680
when you say someone is really 
great on the inside, well, they 

899
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:38,400
can be great on the outside too.
Oh, so that's that's how I felt.

900
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:40,200
What's holding them back from 
being great on the? 

901
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:41,960
Outside, Yeah. 
What's holding them back from 

902
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:45,040
being kind and, you know, nice 
on the outside? 

903
00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:52,560
Like why do I have to dig deep? 
You know what? 

904
00:57:52,560 --> 00:57:53,720
I feel that. 
I feel that. 

905
00:57:56,200 --> 00:57:59,800
As a character, I thought that 
she was great, just a little bit

906
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:02,480
annoying. 
The sexual harassment claims, I 

907
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:07,480
do think she took it far, but I 
think that was all part of the 

908
00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:10,760
character. 
Also similar to what that second

909
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:15,080
statement said, that she's a 
flawed character that you know, 

910
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:19,440
finds redemption in the end. 
And I don't know if I can 

911
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:24,400
articulate this well, but I 
always find it, it's difficult 

912
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:30,240
when the critique on the show is
that this character shouldn't be

913
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:33,720
doing this sort of thing. 
But then it's a representation 

914
00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:37,760
of what characters or people are
like in real life. 

915
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:41,320
And this is, you're supposed to 
critique that, right? 

916
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:45,080
But I know some shows are 
cancelled because they, like, we

917
00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:48,240
shouldn't be seeing that on TV. 
But if that's something that 

918
00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:52,080
happens in real life in some of 
these instances, we should be 

919
00:58:52,080 --> 00:58:56,440
able to critique that and not 
necessarily say we shouldn't see

920
00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:59,440
it at all. 
And I thought that this was I, 

921
00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:01,240
I, I don't know if you guys 
understand. 

922
00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:05,040
What kind of like PC police? 
Yeah, this was just a different 

923
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:07,640
representation of of a female 
character. 

924
00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:10,720
And I know when I read some of 
the controversies around that, 

925
00:59:10,720 --> 00:59:12,520
they're like, they should cancel
the show. 

926
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:15,160
Like she's sexually harassing 
him. 

927
00:59:15,160 --> 00:59:18,360
And I was like, no, let's talk 
about how this character is a 

928
00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:21,480
little bit messed up. 
Rather than this cancel, it's 

929
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:22,400
cancelled. 
Right, right. 

930
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:25,800
Let's open a dialogue here. 
And I think that's what the show

931
00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:29,480
and the writer wanted, right? 
That's what they wanted to say. 

932
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:33,480
They wanted to show us the 
growth and the healing journey 

933
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:35,640
for not just her, but every 
character, right? 

934
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:38,320
Because no character ends the 
same way that they started the 

935
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:40,360
show. 
That's a sign of great writing, 

936
00:59:40,360 --> 00:59:42,760
right? 
Yeah, Like, these are things 

937
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:45,720
that you would expect MU Yong to
do, right? 

938
00:59:45,720 --> 00:59:49,640
Like, her character has been 
written to be this problematic 

939
00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:52,640
person. 
Like, and again, life has handed

940
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:56,640
her all types of lemons. 
And so it's like, OK, here's how

941
00:59:56,640 --> 00:59:59,360
she shows up. 
Here's how she protects herself 

942
00:59:59,880 --> 01:00:03,520
and whatever, right? 
We can dig into her psyche. 

943
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:07,120
And it's like, as you both have 
said, this is what is leading. 

944
01:00:07,840 --> 01:00:11,200
This is what is setting us up 
for that character development. 

945
01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:16,040
So plus one TU vote. 
Yeah, she's Moon Young is 

946
01:00:16,040 --> 01:00:20,360
severe, she's insulting, she's 
intimidating, but she's so 

947
01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:23,840
fashionable. 
She's covered in couture and 

948
01:00:24,040 --> 01:00:28,440
she's a creature of impulse, but
she's also just very lovable. 

949
01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:31,080
Like I said, she's out here 
yanking hair off of people who 

950
01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:35,400
stood in line for her own book 
signing, but she's making kids 

951
01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:38,320
cry. 
She's pushing unethical critics 

952
01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:42,280
down the stairs for demeaning 
her, exploiting her for sex. 

953
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:45,440
She's pulling the wings off of 
butterflies and flashbacks. 

954
01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:48,480
She's bellowing back at deer 
that block her car. 

955
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:55,560
She is doing a lot of weird, 
funky, funny things. 

956
01:00:56,000 --> 01:00:58,880
And she's going about doing sort
of like, a lot of like, 

957
01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:02,200
righteous indignation in the 
wrong way. 

958
01:01:02,360 --> 01:01:05,480
You know what I'm saying? 
Like, yeah, that guy's a Dick. 

959
01:01:05,880 --> 01:01:10,120
Actually, these several guys are
douchebags and she's handling 

960
01:01:10,120 --> 01:01:12,400
it, but in the wrong way, You 
know what I'm saying? 

961
01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:17,000
Like her methods, she can be 
prosecuted for these things. 

962
01:01:17,480 --> 01:01:23,440
Probably not the best, cleanest 
method to handle this, but you 

963
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:27,840
know, I'm not necessarily mad at
her for doing it right, for 

964
01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:30,640
pushing someone down the stairs 
and for pulling, yanking 

965
01:01:30,640 --> 01:01:35,600
someone's hair back when they 
physically assaulted Sante, for 

966
01:01:35,600 --> 01:01:39,640
having a, you know, sort of an 
episode, an autistic episode in 

967
01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:43,800
the line of her book signings. 
So Mel, you mentioned the fairy 

968
01:01:43,800 --> 01:01:45,600
tales. 
Each episode is a different 

969
01:01:45,600 --> 01:01:48,880
fairy tale or story with a moral
lesson imparted to the 

970
01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:53,560
characters and the viewer. 
She represents a very cynical 

971
01:01:53,560 --> 01:01:57,320
viewpoint that there's actually 
a very dark lesson to learn from

972
01:01:57,320 --> 01:02:00,520
these fairy tales instead of a 
light, bright, simple one that 

973
01:02:00,520 --> 01:02:05,800
might affirm life and love. 
And gradually the K drama of it 

974
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:09,920
all is that she kind of pivots 
and she realizes what is love 

975
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:13,920
and what is the light part of 
the fairy tale that she's been 

976
01:02:13,920 --> 01:02:16,840
missing, Like she's been missing
the forest for the trees. 

977
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:20,360
And a lot of these fairy tales 
that she has been teaching these

978
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:23,480
people throughout the show. 
I liked it. 

979
01:02:23,480 --> 01:02:28,000
It's her recontextualizing all 
these fairy tales, these these, 

980
01:02:28,680 --> 01:02:32,600
you know, parables basically in 
her own life. 

981
01:02:33,640 --> 01:02:38,160
Her this is one that I liked the
call back to it, but not 

982
01:02:38,160 --> 01:02:40,640
necessarily the first time it 
happened was when she screams I 

983
01:02:40,640 --> 01:02:44,280
love you at him early on in the 
show. 

984
01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:46,880
She's like aggressively 
screaming I love you at him just

985
01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:51,000
to get his attention because she
knows he's fundamentally love 

986
01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:56,160
starved and affection deprived. 
It's a very early episode antic 

987
01:02:56,160 --> 01:02:59,360
and it's super iconic, but it's 
manipulative, right? 

988
01:02:59,360 --> 01:03:01,840
Like you can see that it's super
manipulative. 

989
01:03:02,040 --> 01:03:05,640
She stalked him all the way to 
this hospital, in the seat at 

990
01:03:05,640 --> 01:03:09,360
the seaside hospital. 
And to me, that's all part of 

991
01:03:09,360 --> 01:03:12,640
her mental illness. 
She has antisocial personality 

992
01:03:12,640 --> 01:03:16,600
disorder. 
And I would say the one thing 

993
01:03:16,600 --> 01:03:19,160
that I don't like about the 
shows, they don't go into this 

994
01:03:19,160 --> 01:03:21,960
diagnosis. 
They don't flesh out like, what 

995
01:03:21,960 --> 01:03:24,000
is this look like on her 
necessarily? 

996
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:26,160
What is antisocial personality 
disorder? 

997
01:03:27,200 --> 01:03:29,760
Does she need more treatment? 
Does she need more therapy? 

998
01:03:29,760 --> 01:03:33,120
Is this like, does she not 
really have it at the end of the

999
01:03:33,120 --> 01:03:35,920
day? 
Was it just sort of conditioning

1000
01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:39,440
and training and abuse from her 
mother, like all this stuff? 

1001
01:03:40,040 --> 01:03:42,440
So that would be my complaint 
about it. 

1002
01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:46,480
And I think that goes into the 
portrayal of mental health and 

1003
01:03:46,480 --> 01:03:50,720
mental illness in the show, 
which is upon this rewatch, I 

1004
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:53,400
was like, this is good but not 
great. 

1005
01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:55,840
And five years ago, I was like, 
this is really great and, you 

1006
01:03:55,840 --> 01:03:57,280
know, step in the right 
direction. 

1007
01:03:58,040 --> 01:04:01,480
And today, watching it, I'm 
like, it's good. 

1008
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:08,920
Definitely good. 
I also thought that although the

1009
01:04:08,920 --> 01:04:14,640
mental health aspect of the show
was great to see, it almost felt

1010
01:04:14,640 --> 01:04:18,560
like it was being used as a 
device, yes to push block 

1011
01:04:18,560 --> 01:04:23,440
forward rather than exploration 
of what those mental health 

1012
01:04:24,120 --> 01:04:26,960
challenges mean for these 
different characters. 

1013
01:04:26,960 --> 01:04:29,440
Yes. 
It was just taking us to the 

1014
01:04:29,440 --> 01:04:32,600
next step. 
The show walks a weird line of 

1015
01:04:32,600 --> 01:04:35,880
being gimmicky and being 
sincere. 

1016
01:04:37,160 --> 01:04:42,800
And I think I felt that a lot 
more this time around because 

1017
01:04:43,080 --> 01:04:47,160
like just to keep it a buck, 
these the healthcare errors of 

1018
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:49,320
practice are like endless, 
right? 

1019
01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:53,080
Like the doctor ditches his 
patient when he sees Munyong 

1020
01:04:53,080 --> 01:04:55,680
coming towards them because he 
fired her from the lit classes. 

1021
01:04:56,280 --> 01:04:59,400
The doc allows her to do these 
lit classes despite knowing 

1022
01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:01,480
she's a loose cannon and very 
volatile. 

1023
01:05:02,520 --> 01:05:07,480
There's like several people that
escape from the hospital and I 

1024
01:05:07,480 --> 01:05:10,520
get that they have like this 
open door policy, but that's 

1025
01:05:11,320 --> 01:05:14,960
ridiculous. 
Director O again, just 

1026
01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:19,240
triggering patients for fun. 
Like he's I don't understand 

1027
01:05:19,240 --> 01:05:21,360
that. 
And then employees just watching

1028
01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:24,480
these massive breakdowns, 
massive meltouts happen. 

1029
01:05:24,480 --> 01:05:27,920
No attempts at intervening. 
They just like let it happen for

1030
01:05:27,920 --> 01:05:30,880
the plot, right? 
Like it for for us as viewers, 

1031
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:34,840
we know it's for entertainment, 
but like I'm like this is not 

1032
01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:38,440
like over and over again, these 
infractions kind of build up and

1033
01:05:38,440 --> 01:05:41,960
it makes me a little bit annoyed
nowadays. 

1034
01:05:41,960 --> 01:05:44,200
I don't know if you guys felt 
that way. 

1035
01:05:44,800 --> 01:05:46,520
Yeah. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1036
01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:48,520
Plus one to what you both 
shared. 

1037
01:05:48,520 --> 01:05:54,120
I think one of my critiques when
I rewatched it was actually some

1038
01:05:54,120 --> 01:05:58,440
of these characters, some of the
patients at the hospital, either

1039
01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:01,880
I was like, we either need to go
into a little more depth for 

1040
01:06:01,880 --> 01:06:04,800
some of them, have few of them 
that we're focusing on or else 

1041
01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:09,360
just keep them use that use that
time to maybe, you know, just to

1042
01:06:09,360 --> 01:06:15,200
your point, focus on Coleman 
Young and her her own, you know,

1043
01:06:15,200 --> 01:06:19,520
like anti personality. 
I'm saying it wrong, right, But 

1044
01:06:19,520 --> 01:06:22,200
like, you know, anti social 
personality, antisocial 

1045
01:06:22,200 --> 01:06:23,480
personality. 
Yes, that's it. 

1046
01:06:23,480 --> 01:06:25,280
Thank you. 
Because it's almost like, yeah, 

1047
01:06:25,280 --> 01:06:28,480
there's there's all this it's 
not noise, but these other 

1048
01:06:28,480 --> 01:06:31,480
little things happening here and
there, as Mel said, to drive the

1049
01:06:31,480 --> 01:06:33,480
plot forward. 
But we're we're just kind of 

1050
01:06:33,520 --> 01:06:38,120
glossing over and it's like, 
could we not spend a little bit 

1051
01:06:38,120 --> 01:06:42,160
more time, maybe have a little 
bit more in depth for one or two

1052
01:06:42,160 --> 01:06:44,440
of them, but not like every, 
yeah. 

1053
01:06:45,040 --> 01:06:48,640
I don't know, a couple of like 
stray notes that I just want to 

1054
01:06:48,640 --> 01:06:50,160
throw in here before we 
continue. 

1055
01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:52,680
There's Subway product 
placement, which I was like, 

1056
01:06:52,680 --> 01:06:55,320
wow. 
I think Quiznos has like taken 

1057
01:06:55,320 --> 01:06:57,720
the place of Subway because 
recently in a recent drama, 

1058
01:06:57,720 --> 01:07:01,560
there was a Quiznos product 
placement and I was like, oh 

1059
01:07:01,560 --> 01:07:04,360
man, it's nice to see. 
It was actually nice to see 

1060
01:07:04,400 --> 01:07:09,960
Subway it from 2020. 
And Speaking of Komunyong, 

1061
01:07:10,520 --> 01:07:14,560
Soyaji does not know how to 
smoke a cigarette, has no clue 

1062
01:07:14,560 --> 01:07:16,440
whatsoever what to do with a 
cigarette. 

1063
01:07:16,480 --> 01:07:19,080
I don't know if you guys are 
like sticklers for certain 

1064
01:07:19,080 --> 01:07:21,920
things, but people that don't 
know how to smoke a cigarette in

1065
01:07:21,920 --> 01:07:24,880
a movie or ATV show, I'm like, 
that takes me straight the fuck 

1066
01:07:24,880 --> 01:07:27,600
out. 
Like I'm like, what is she's 

1067
01:07:27,600 --> 01:07:30,800
like holding it weird And I'm 
like girl, like get some. 

1068
01:07:31,040 --> 01:07:33,480
There has to be a smoker on set 
with you just like have them 

1069
01:07:33,480 --> 01:07:37,520
coach you for like half an hour 
because this is ridiculous. 

1070
01:07:37,520 --> 01:07:40,920
She's holding these like 
luxurious looking cigarettes the

1071
01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:43,600
most awkward way. 
So I had a problem with her and 

1072
01:07:43,600 --> 01:07:44,920
they never showed her smoking 
either. 

1073
01:07:44,920 --> 01:07:46,680
She's like, she has never smoked
a cigarette in her life. 

1074
01:07:46,680 --> 01:07:52,160
It looks like just from just 
from how she was portraying this

1075
01:07:52,440 --> 01:07:54,800
smoker, I'm like, no, she's not.
She's not a smoker. 

1076
01:07:55,400 --> 01:08:00,840
Sorry to say, I'm going to have 
to go back. 

1077
01:08:00,840 --> 01:08:04,280
I'm going to have to go back. 
And because I'm like, wait. 

1078
01:08:06,040 --> 01:08:09,640
But can I add a stray note that 
I'm like, I keep thinking about,

1079
01:08:09,840 --> 01:08:13,520
yeah. 
How unlikable was Jury as a 

1080
01:08:13,520 --> 01:08:15,320
character? 
Do you guys remember? 

1081
01:08:15,920 --> 01:08:21,319
And she, she has gone on to be 
like such a great actress in all

1082
01:08:21,319 --> 01:08:23,399
these shows. 
And we, that was my first 

1083
01:08:23,399 --> 01:08:25,800
introduction to her, and I 
shouldn't know. 

1084
01:08:25,800 --> 01:08:29,279
And she's gonna be good because 
I really disliked her character.

1085
01:08:31,279 --> 01:08:35,000
I was just like, for half the 
show I was like, what even What 

1086
01:08:35,000 --> 01:08:36,439
is her beef? 
I don't get it. 

1087
01:08:36,800 --> 01:08:38,760
And then they showed the 
flashback and I was still like, 

1088
01:08:39,160 --> 01:08:41,720
gosh, you suck. 
It was, I don't know. 

1089
01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:44,000
I had like very little sympathy 
for her. 

1090
01:08:44,560 --> 01:08:47,040
So I'm glad you mentioned it 
because she was like a web 

1091
01:08:47,040 --> 01:08:50,760
blanket a little bit, even 
though her relationship with the

1092
01:08:50,760 --> 01:08:53,160
manager was getting real cute by
the end of the show. 

1093
01:08:53,160 --> 01:08:54,279
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

1094
01:08:54,960 --> 01:08:58,120
I wanted to shake her half the 
time, like girl, stand up girl. 

1095
01:08:58,479 --> 01:09:03,200
Said exactly, exactly. 
Oh my gosh. 

1096
01:09:03,200 --> 01:09:08,080
She also she lures Kante and 
Sante to the seaside town. 

1097
01:09:08,120 --> 01:09:10,960
Also, she's like, I have like an
empty room. 

1098
01:09:10,960 --> 01:09:13,600
You don't have to worry about 
where you're going to live and 

1099
01:09:13,600 --> 01:09:17,479
they're you can get double pay 
at the hospital because you're 

1100
01:09:17,479 --> 01:09:20,720
certified and whatever. 
I'm like, girl, you're trapping 

1101
01:09:20,720 --> 01:09:24,920
this man to go live in this 
trauma town from when he was a 

1102
01:09:24,920 --> 01:09:28,319
child. 
Anyway, thanks. 

1103
01:09:28,319 --> 01:09:29,720
Thanks for bringing up that 
character. 

1104
01:09:29,720 --> 01:09:32,359
I actually had no notes on her, 
but that was I was just 

1105
01:09:32,359 --> 01:09:37,560
spitballing. 
So going back up to some of the 

1106
01:09:37,560 --> 01:09:42,680
questions that people had, some 
people and some people are now 

1107
01:09:42,680 --> 01:09:45,000
calling into question Kim SU 
Kyun's performance and they're 

1108
01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:48,960
saying that I honestly thought 
the female lead and the autistic

1109
01:09:48,960 --> 01:09:51,040
brother were standout 
performances and the male lead 

1110
01:09:51,040 --> 01:09:54,560
was just blah. 
How do you feel about these 

1111
01:09:54,560 --> 01:09:55,720
people? 
Now? 

1112
01:09:56,320 --> 01:10:00,400
I'm not sure if this person felt
this way always, but I haven't 

1113
01:10:00,400 --> 01:10:03,080
seen this online that people are
like, oh, Kim SU Kyun never 

1114
01:10:03,080 --> 01:10:04,800
could act, could he, blah blah, 
blah. 

1115
01:10:04,800 --> 01:10:09,280
Like, and we'll just keep it to 
the context of it's OK to not be

1116
01:10:09,280 --> 01:10:10,640
OK. 
What? 

1117
01:10:10,640 --> 01:10:13,080
What would you say to those 
claims? 

1118
01:10:13,560 --> 01:10:17,080
I would say not the revisionist 
history of getting I'm getting. 

1119
01:10:17,080 --> 01:10:19,600
That's what I'm saying. 
I'm kidding. 

1120
01:10:20,120 --> 01:10:24,360
I'm kidding. 
I actually I actually did see a 

1121
01:10:24,840 --> 01:10:28,360
review online somewhere, but 
this is from like back in 20. 

1122
01:10:28,680 --> 01:10:33,040
I think it was a 2021 blog where
someone did say Kante is sort of

1123
01:10:33,520 --> 01:10:38,840
a one note character. 
And so that that was in 2020, 

1124
01:10:39,120 --> 01:10:42,640
2020-2021, whatever it was. 
So I mean, I think there are 

1125
01:10:42,640 --> 01:10:46,240
probably people out there who 
from the get go were like, but I

1126
01:10:46,280 --> 01:10:50,320
think it was but by design 
because he does have my 

1127
01:10:50,320 --> 01:10:53,800
experience of him is that, you 
know, he is supposed to be this 

1128
01:10:53,800 --> 01:10:56,000
character who's trying to keep 
it together. 

1129
01:10:56,000 --> 01:10:59,200
He's just like, let's keep it 
even keeled because he 

1130
01:10:59,200 --> 01:11:02,240
shouldn't. 
He didn't want to show too much 

1131
01:11:02,240 --> 01:11:06,680
emotion that might be 
misinterpreted by by Sante, You 

1132
01:11:06,680 --> 01:11:09,480
know, whatever it was, right. 
And so it's like there may be 

1133
01:11:09,480 --> 01:11:12,640
little moments. 
There are just some subtle 

1134
01:11:12,640 --> 01:11:15,960
moments where it's like, OK, 
you're seeing a little bit more 

1135
01:11:15,960 --> 01:11:19,200
of what it is he's trying to 
keep suppressed. 

1136
01:11:20,000 --> 01:11:24,320
But I don't know, maybe I'm 
just, maybe it's just me, but I 

1137
01:11:24,320 --> 01:11:26,120
think it was part of the the 
character. 

1138
01:11:26,120 --> 01:11:29,800
Yeah, I mean, please don't take 
away going to his tears away 

1139
01:11:29,800 --> 01:11:31,920
from him. 
Like they didn't affect us. 

1140
01:11:32,360 --> 01:11:38,040
Like the whole moments where I 
was tearing up with him. 

1141
01:11:38,040 --> 01:11:40,240
I think it's exactly what you're
saying. 

1142
01:11:40,240 --> 01:11:45,560
No, he represented the character
well and you could feel he. 

1143
01:11:45,600 --> 01:11:50,320
I remember saying this in our 
first review is that he had an 

1144
01:11:50,360 --> 01:11:55,960
underlying sadness to him that I
thought Kim SU Hyun really did 

1145
01:11:55,960 --> 01:11:58,640
well. 
Like in every scene you felt 

1146
01:11:58,640 --> 01:12:01,760
like this is someone who is 
carrying a lot. 

1147
01:12:01,920 --> 01:12:06,240
He is his shoulders are bred 
like every he is burdened. 

1148
01:12:06,240 --> 01:12:10,640
He is going through it and he's 
just trying to keep it calm, 

1149
01:12:10,800 --> 01:12:14,720
just trying to get through the 
day, just trying to, you know, 

1150
01:12:14,720 --> 01:12:16,640
make sure that his brother is 
OK. 

1151
01:12:17,160 --> 01:12:21,440
And I think, yeah, I, I mean, we
may have his our issues with him

1152
01:12:21,440 --> 01:12:24,880
now, but I thought that he did 
did well in that. 

1153
01:12:24,920 --> 01:12:28,600
And that's what made all three 
characters so great. 

1154
01:12:28,600 --> 01:12:32,280
They all brought the A game to 
to the show. 

1155
01:12:32,640 --> 01:12:35,800
Yeah, that's my perspective. 
If I can just add to that. 

1156
01:12:35,920 --> 01:12:36,480
Yeah. 
Sure. 

1157
01:12:36,520 --> 01:12:42,040
So Coleman Young calls him the. 
Is it like the pin and the 

1158
01:12:42,040 --> 01:12:44,960
grenade or whatever? 
Like yeah, safety pin or 

1159
01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:45,680
something. 
Yeah. 

1160
01:12:46,200 --> 01:12:50,360
And and yeah, I think 
performances don't have to be 

1161
01:12:50,400 --> 01:12:53,960
big and loud for them to be 
impactful, right? 

1162
01:12:53,960 --> 01:12:58,840
It's like Munyang and Sante are 
the way they are because those 

1163
01:12:58,840 --> 01:13:02,840
are the characters. 
And and yeah, Kante is like that

1164
01:13:03,360 --> 01:13:07,800
balancing element, although he 
is his own grenade, clearly, 

1165
01:13:07,840 --> 01:13:10,320
but. 
Yeah, I agree. 

1166
01:13:10,320 --> 01:13:13,160
I would say something that I 
resonated with in 2020 and 

1167
01:13:13,160 --> 01:13:17,160
something that continues to 
really resonate with me is the 

1168
01:13:17,160 --> 01:13:21,720
fact that Kante is a caregiver. 
He's a full time caregiver and 

1169
01:13:21,720 --> 01:13:24,400
he's had no support for his 
entire life. 

1170
01:13:24,400 --> 01:13:27,640
And that's not something people 
like to talk about is that 

1171
01:13:27,640 --> 01:13:31,640
caregivers need care. 
That's a very unique struggle. 

1172
01:13:31,640 --> 01:13:35,320
And unfortunately, like I have 
been in the position where I 

1173
01:13:35,320 --> 01:13:40,120
have cared for family members 
and seeing other family members 

1174
01:13:40,480 --> 01:13:46,360
full time caregive for others. 
And I completely understood why 

1175
01:13:46,360 --> 01:13:51,640
he was the way that he was and 
why he was so suppressed, right?

1176
01:13:51,640 --> 01:13:53,800
He wasn't repressed, he was 
suppressed. 

1177
01:13:53,800 --> 01:13:57,960
He did it to himself, right? 
He was constantly choking back 

1178
01:13:57,960 --> 01:14:02,560
emotions and suppressing 
happiness and, you know, making 

1179
01:14:02,560 --> 01:14:06,040
decisions that he thought would 
benefit his brother. 

1180
01:14:06,640 --> 01:14:09,440
This is the type of character 
and this is the type of story 

1181
01:14:09,440 --> 01:14:13,320
that no one likes to admit 
happens on a day-to-day. 

1182
01:14:13,840 --> 01:14:18,840
And if you look around, this 
happens way more often in real 

1183
01:14:18,840 --> 01:14:21,920
life, which is why I think the 
drama is also so special. 

1184
01:14:21,920 --> 01:14:25,160
Is that it? 
It's basically the emancipation 

1185
01:14:25,160 --> 01:14:30,760
of a caregiver. 
How do you let go of a family 

1186
01:14:30,760 --> 01:14:33,680
member who maybe is a little 
more self-sufficient than you 

1187
01:14:33,680 --> 01:14:36,640
thought? 
And I thought it was beautiful. 

1188
01:14:36,640 --> 01:14:40,760
I thought it was very effective.
We can get into a little bit 

1189
01:14:40,760 --> 01:14:45,480
more that journey and that 
character in spoilers, but I 

1190
01:14:45,480 --> 01:14:51,200
don't think that Kim Sukiyong 
performance was lacking in any 

1191
01:14:51,200 --> 01:14:55,240
way, shape or form. 
OK, so I'm actually going to go 

1192
01:14:55,240 --> 01:14:59,120
through some fun facts, some 
accolades for the show, a little

1193
01:14:59,120 --> 01:15:01,880
bit of development notes, and 
then we are going to give our 

1194
01:15:02,080 --> 01:15:04,360
score out of five soldier 
bottles and then we're just 

1195
01:15:04,360 --> 01:15:07,320
going to get into spoilers. 
I feel like we talked a lot, but

1196
01:15:07,320 --> 01:15:10,160
we haven't talked about the 
twists in the show. 

1197
01:15:10,160 --> 01:15:13,040
I had a question come through 
about the twist in the show, how

1198
01:15:13,040 --> 01:15:14,760
we felt about it. 
So we will get into that in the 

1199
01:15:14,760 --> 01:15:18,640
spoiler section. 
So fun facts the viewership 

1200
01:15:18,640 --> 01:15:22,440
slash popularity. 
According to Nielsen Korea, the 

1201
01:15:22,440 --> 01:15:25,880
series recorded an average 
nationwide TV viewership rating 

1202
01:15:25,920 --> 01:15:28,960
of 5.4%. 
It was the most popular show of 

1203
01:15:28,960 --> 01:15:32,680
2020 in the romance genre on 
Netflix in South Korea. 

1204
01:15:33,120 --> 01:15:36,600
It was the most popular K drama 
series on Netflix in many 

1205
01:15:36,600 --> 01:15:41,920
countries such as Taiwan, and 
the most enduring Korean drama 

1206
01:15:41,920 --> 01:15:44,760
in Malaysia, Philippines, 
Singapore, and Thailand. 

1207
01:15:44,760 --> 01:15:48,760
So Asia just ate it up. 
It was in the top ten list in 

1208
01:15:48,760 --> 01:15:52,320
Netflix for more than 100 days 
there, and the series was also 

1209
01:15:52,320 --> 01:15:56,880
the most popular K drama of 2020
on Netflix in Australia, Hong 

1210
01:15:56,880 --> 01:15:59,200
Kong, India, Japan and South 
Africa. 

1211
01:15:59,960 --> 01:16:04,000
It made the New York Times list 
of Best International Shows of 

1212
01:16:04,000 --> 01:16:10,440
2020 and at the 57th Pick Song 
Awards it received 8 nominations

1213
01:16:10,440 --> 01:16:14,400
with two wins for Best 
Supporting Actor and Best 

1214
01:16:14,400 --> 01:16:16,960
Technical Achievement for 
Costume Design. 

1215
01:16:17,440 --> 01:16:21,120
It received a nomination at the 
49th International Emmy Awards 

1216
01:16:21,120 --> 01:16:25,040
in the Best TV Movie or 
Miniseries category as well. 

1217
01:16:26,080 --> 01:16:30,320
So in development, I think you 
guys mentioned the writer and 

1218
01:16:30,320 --> 01:16:33,360
how she was so good at 
portraying a lot of this stuff 

1219
01:16:33,360 --> 01:16:36,440
and how we really resonated with
Mr. Plankton as well. 

1220
01:16:36,440 --> 01:16:40,120
Who most recent work Toe Young 
based the drama on her 

1221
01:16:40,120 --> 01:16:43,320
relationship with a man who had 
a personality disorder. 

1222
01:16:43,320 --> 01:16:46,320
She developed Moonsang Tay's 
character by listening to the 

1223
01:16:46,320 --> 01:16:49,760
stories of people with autistic 
brothers and referred to the 

1224
01:16:49,760 --> 01:16:54,040
books recommended by the CEO of 
Bear Better, a social enterprise

1225
01:16:54,040 --> 01:16:56,720
where people with developmental 
disabilities work. 

1226
01:16:57,560 --> 01:17:02,120
Fashion director Cho Sang Kyung 
managed costumes, while fashion 

1227
01:17:02,120 --> 01:17:06,240
designer Kim Minju designed some
of Komo Young's dresses so she 

1228
01:17:06,240 --> 01:17:10,760
was dressed in couture. 
Kim SU Hyun considered It's OK 

1229
01:17:10,760 --> 01:17:14,200
to not Be OK to be his comeback 
drama following his obligatory 

1230
01:17:14,200 --> 01:17:16,880
military enlistment, and at the 
press conference for the drama, 

1231
01:17:17,200 --> 01:17:19,600
he said that he joined the 
project after being drawn to its

1232
01:17:19,600 --> 01:17:21,760
title and Moon Kang Te's 
character. 

1233
01:17:21,960 --> 01:17:24,520
When asked about his character 
at the press conference, All 

1234
01:17:24,520 --> 01:17:29,120
Jung Sei commented that autism 
isn't an illness but something 

1235
01:17:29,120 --> 01:17:31,520
you're born with. 
If you think about Korea and the

1236
01:17:31,520 --> 01:17:35,200
way that they're kind of behind,
yeah, makes a lot of sense. 

1237
01:17:35,880 --> 01:17:39,720
So Mel, you mentioned the books.
The five children's story books 

1238
01:17:39,720 --> 01:17:42,680
that appeared in the drama were 
written by the screenwriter Cho 

1239
01:17:42,680 --> 01:17:46,000
Young and illustrated by concept
artist Cham San. 

1240
01:17:46,000 --> 01:17:50,280
They were published in Korean in
the summer of 2020, same summer 

1241
01:17:50,280 --> 01:17:53,640
that this aired. 
And according to Kyobo Book 

1242
01:17:53,640 --> 01:17:56,720
Center and Yes, 24, all five 
books were listed in the top 20 

1243
01:17:56,720 --> 01:18:00,240
best selling books of the month.
We talked about sexually 

1244
01:18:00,240 --> 01:18:03,280
inappropriate scenes. 
Guess what got flagged for 

1245
01:18:03,280 --> 01:18:06,520
sexually inappropriate scenes? 
The series was criticized on 

1246
01:18:06,520 --> 01:18:09,400
social media, and the Korea 
Communication Standards 

1247
01:18:09,400 --> 01:18:13,160
Commission received over 50 
formal complaints, largely for a

1248
01:18:13,160 --> 01:18:16,040
scene in which Moon Young 
overtly stares and touches 

1249
01:18:16,040 --> 01:18:18,560
Khante's body as he gets 
stressed. 

1250
01:18:18,800 --> 01:18:21,360
In another scene, a male 
character who suffers from manic

1251
01:18:21,360 --> 01:18:25,120
depression and exhibitionism 
reveals parts of his body with 

1252
01:18:25,120 --> 01:18:27,840
his genitals being covered by a 
drawing of an elephant. 

1253
01:18:28,200 --> 01:18:31,160
Some viewers defended these 
scenes as ways of expressing the

1254
01:18:31,160 --> 01:18:35,720
characters personalities. 
On August 26th, 2020, the 

1255
01:18:35,720 --> 01:18:38,880
broadcast censorship body issued
a legal sanction to the 

1256
01:18:38,880 --> 01:18:42,360
television series for sexually 
inappropriate scenes in episode 

1257
01:18:42,360 --> 01:18:46,920
3, judging it to be against the 
broadcast celebration 

1258
01:18:47,200 --> 01:18:52,680
regulations, and cited Article 
27 on duties of integrity and 

1259
01:18:52,720 --> 01:18:57,120
Article 30 on gender equality. 
The subcommission gave the 

1260
01:18:57,120 --> 01:19:00,480
reasoning, even considering the 
fact that they were meant to 

1261
01:19:00,480 --> 01:19:03,120
exaggeratedly express a 
character's personality. 

1262
01:19:03,360 --> 01:19:06,320
The scenes in question show how 
insensitive the drama's 

1263
01:19:06,320 --> 01:19:10,760
producers are to gender equality
in broadcasting content that may

1264
01:19:10,760 --> 01:19:15,520
be little a certain gender and 
hold the possibility to justify 

1265
01:19:15,800 --> 01:19:18,160
sexual harassment and 
molestation. 

1266
01:19:18,160 --> 01:19:21,680
OK. 
Well, that's a bitch, but. 

1267
01:19:23,440 --> 01:19:27,560
You guys were like, Oh, no. 
OK, gender equality. 

1268
01:19:32,360 --> 01:19:37,840
OK. 
I was like, oh, Oh no, not 

1269
01:19:37,840 --> 01:19:39,960
gender equality, because a man's
got his. 

1270
01:19:39,960 --> 01:19:44,480
Shirt off, Listen, men's rights 
and whatnot. 

1271
01:19:45,760 --> 01:19:51,040
Oh no, not a man with an 
elephant covering his genitals. 

1272
01:19:52,600 --> 01:19:56,360
That's degrading to the man. 
Oh my gosh. 

1273
01:19:56,960 --> 01:19:59,440
Oh. 
Yes, yes. 

1274
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:04,080
Well, OK, here's my thing. 
OK, I just want to make a very 

1275
01:20:04,080 --> 01:20:07,080
quick comment. 
The part about the the character

1276
01:20:07,080 --> 01:20:10,400
who reveals parts, who flashes 
people, essentially. 

1277
01:20:10,760 --> 01:20:13,360
Yeah, like. 
I I agree with the people who 

1278
01:20:13,360 --> 01:20:15,240
are defending the scene, right? 
Because they're like, this is 

1279
01:20:15,240 --> 01:20:18,160
the character, right? 
He has this mental illness and 

1280
01:20:18,160 --> 01:20:21,280
this is how he's acting out. 
And so it's almost like if this 

1281
01:20:21,280 --> 01:20:24,760
were happening in real life, you
would pish posh and do whatever.

1282
01:20:24,760 --> 01:20:28,680
But it's yeah, it is what it is.
Anyway you. 

1283
01:20:28,680 --> 01:20:31,840
See if they penalize this one, 
which is it makes it difficult 

1284
01:20:31,840 --> 01:20:35,480
for other shows to air. 
It makes it difficult for the 

1285
01:20:35,480 --> 01:20:38,520
broadcast station or the 
broadcaster to get other 

1286
01:20:39,000 --> 01:20:42,640
licenses and things. 
It's it's a pretty heavy slap on

1287
01:20:42,640 --> 01:20:45,520
the wrist. 
Other shows are not going to do 

1288
01:20:45,520 --> 01:20:47,160
this. 
You understand where I'm coming 

1289
01:20:47,160 --> 01:20:50,800
from. 
Like this is also going to make 

1290
01:20:50,800 --> 01:20:53,560
other shows play it safer. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1291
01:20:54,040 --> 01:20:57,080
They basically said we need to 
find them before. 

1292
01:20:57,280 --> 01:21:02,160
This sets a precedent. 
Yeah, yeah, exactly. 

1293
01:21:03,040 --> 01:21:05,840
So think about it from a lot of 
different angles. 

1294
01:21:06,640 --> 01:21:10,160
How many soju bottles would you 
give? 

1295
01:21:10,160 --> 01:21:13,960
It's OK to not be OK. 
Five being the best, the most. 

1296
01:21:14,200 --> 01:21:18,080
I would give it 4 soju bottles 
and I think this might be higher

1297
01:21:18,080 --> 01:21:22,480
than what I gave it in our 
review because as I said 

1298
01:21:22,720 --> 01:21:28,480
retrospectively, I think it's 
gotten better with age besides 

1299
01:21:28,480 --> 01:21:32,840
all the drama surrounding the 
scandal. 

1300
01:21:33,160 --> 01:21:39,600
But it is such and I I recommend
this to people when they ask me 

1301
01:21:39,600 --> 01:21:42,200
if they're entering the K drama 
world well based on their 

1302
01:21:42,200 --> 01:21:44,960
preferences. 
But it's usually one that comes 

1303
01:21:44,960 --> 01:21:47,240
to the top of the list. 
And like, you should try this. 

1304
01:21:47,680 --> 01:21:50,560
It's got good acting, a good 
story. 

1305
01:21:50,800 --> 01:21:53,960
The short stories are great. 
I mean, we did critique the 

1306
01:21:53,960 --> 01:21:55,880
stuff about the mental health 
for sure. 

1307
01:21:56,400 --> 01:22:00,880
But I think overall it's it's a 
it's a banger for me. 

1308
01:22:01,120 --> 01:22:04,160
I loved it. 
And I hope to see. 

1309
01:22:04,360 --> 01:22:07,680
So yeah, G Moore in the coming 
years, honestly. 

1310
01:22:08,680 --> 01:22:12,600
Yeah, me too. 
Mal, you actually had a high 

1311
01:22:12,600 --> 01:22:19,040
rating in our episode. 
But but my, yeah, my rating is a

1312
01:22:19,040 --> 01:22:21,200
four. 
We can't do partials, right. 

1313
01:22:21,200 --> 01:22:22,600
I can't say. 
You can do, yeah, you can do 

1314
01:22:22,600 --> 01:22:24,520
halves, I think. 
I can I just. 

1315
01:22:24,640 --> 01:22:26,080
Like halves, Yeah. 
OK, OK. 

1316
01:22:26,560 --> 01:22:29,560
I would give it channeling. 
OK. 

1317
01:22:30,080 --> 01:22:33,960
I would give it a four and a 
half out of five soju bottles. 

1318
01:22:33,960 --> 01:22:40,280
I think just the drama is it's, 
it's just, it's giving, it's 

1319
01:22:40,280 --> 01:22:41,880
giving. 
It's always been giving. 

1320
01:22:42,280 --> 01:22:45,320
I think that the characters are 
so rich. 

1321
01:22:45,640 --> 01:22:50,000
They're they're complex. 
And yeah, the only points I 

1322
01:22:50,000 --> 01:22:52,080
would take away are four things 
we've already talked about. 

1323
01:22:52,080 --> 01:22:55,600
But this is a really, I think, a
well done drama. 

1324
01:22:56,160 --> 01:22:59,640
For sure. 
OK, I am going to come in and 

1325
01:22:59,640 --> 01:23:01,040
give it one. 
I'm just kidding. 

1326
01:23:01,040 --> 01:23:04,720
I'm not going to get one. 
I did after all this. 

1327
01:23:04,720 --> 01:23:09,520
I'm like 1 Sodu bottle. 
Yeah, I'm going to give it. 

1328
01:23:10,120 --> 01:23:13,600
I think I'm going to give it the
same thing that I gave it last 

1329
01:23:13,600 --> 01:23:16,400
time. 
I think I gave like 3.99 out of 

1330
01:23:16,400 --> 01:23:19,000
five. 
I'm just going to round it up to

1331
01:23:19,000 --> 01:23:20,640
four. 
I don't know what I was on in 

1332
01:23:20,640 --> 01:23:22,920
2020 thinking. 
I think I was getting cute with 

1333
01:23:22,920 --> 01:23:25,800
it and like 3.999. 
Yeah, I'm just going to give it 

1334
01:23:25,800 --> 01:23:31,040
four out of five's Hoju bottles 
because it's quite good. 

1335
01:23:31,160 --> 01:23:34,720
And the complaints that I had 
last time, I don't even know 

1336
01:23:34,720 --> 01:23:38,520
what they were, but I have 
complaints now and I can get it.

1337
01:23:38,520 --> 01:23:43,680
I already said some, but I can 
get into like my biggest one now

1338
01:23:43,680 --> 01:23:48,880
in the spoiler section. 
And like that also factors in 

1339
01:23:49,080 --> 01:23:51,960
the Kim Sukian of it all as 
well. 

1340
01:23:52,400 --> 01:23:56,200
And I feel like that is maybe 
half a star because while I was 

1341
01:23:56,200 --> 01:23:58,000
re watching it, I did have to 
take a break. 

1342
01:23:58,000 --> 01:24:02,640
I did have to, you know, collect
myself and get through a couple 

1343
01:24:02,640 --> 01:24:05,320
of episodes where I was like, 
like wincing a little bit. 

1344
01:24:05,800 --> 01:24:14,400
But I feel like the characters 
are so strong, are so vivid, and

1345
01:24:14,720 --> 01:24:20,040
the storytelling is pretty great
that I just got sucked in again 

1346
01:24:20,160 --> 01:24:23,800
after a few days and after, you 
know, taking a minute. 

1347
01:24:23,800 --> 01:24:27,080
But to collect myself and doing 
other things and like going out 

1348
01:24:27,080 --> 01:24:30,440
inside and touching some grass, 
I was like, OK, I'm back in. 

1349
01:24:30,440 --> 01:24:33,400
Like I'm locked in again. 
I really enjoy the show. 

1350
01:24:33,400 --> 01:24:35,480
I would still recommend it. 
It's still excellent. 

1351
01:24:35,480 --> 01:24:40,560
So 4 out of five Hoju bottles. 
I think we all, you know, 

1352
01:24:40,720 --> 01:24:44,840
wrestled with it in different 
ways and it still came out 

1353
01:24:45,040 --> 01:24:48,000
high-ranking high for us. 
So that's great. 

1354
01:24:48,400 --> 01:24:51,920
We are going to get into the 
spoiler section right after 

1355
01:24:51,920 --> 01:24:54,240
this. 
Excuse me? 

1356
01:24:55,360 --> 01:25:00,640
I can't, you know, I am. 
Oh, sorry. 

1357
01:25:01,120 --> 01:25:02,720
Swear. 
Discussing shit? 

1358
01:25:02,720 --> 01:25:07,400
What? 
All right, we're on the other 

1359
01:25:07,400 --> 01:25:09,920
side of spoilers. 
We are going to spoil. 

1360
01:25:09,920 --> 01:25:14,600
It's OK to not be OK. 
It is a 5 year old show and if 

1361
01:25:14,600 --> 01:25:17,880
you haven't watched it, we 
encourage you to go watch it and

1362
01:25:17,880 --> 01:25:20,800
then come back later. 
Come back and continue listening

1363
01:25:20,800 --> 01:25:23,040
to this episode. 
We did give a few things away, 

1364
01:25:23,400 --> 01:25:26,360
but nothing that wasn't 
necessarily an episode 1. 

1365
01:25:26,360 --> 01:25:29,720
So I think you had something you
wanted to revise. 

1366
01:25:29,960 --> 01:25:33,480
Noli, did you want to revise 
your score at this point in 

1367
01:25:33,480 --> 01:25:36,040
time? 
Yes, yes, I did. 

1368
01:25:37,480 --> 01:25:42,160
I wanted to revise it down 
because I remembered. 

1369
01:25:42,400 --> 01:25:45,080
Actually it's because of 
something you said just in your 

1370
01:25:45,680 --> 01:25:49,520
rating, which is just 
remembering my experience of 

1371
01:25:49,520 --> 01:25:50,880
rewatching it the second time 
around. 

1372
01:25:50,880 --> 01:25:52,840
I couldn't rewatch it to the 
end. 

1373
01:25:52,840 --> 01:25:55,560
And so I will just bring it down
to a four. 

1374
01:25:56,040 --> 01:25:58,560
And I also remember there was 
some wild things and I was like 

1375
01:25:58,560 --> 01:26:03,000
wait, wait what how did we get 
here kind of thing. 

1376
01:26:03,000 --> 01:26:07,240
And yeah, because I didn't 
finish rewatching, maybe, maybe 

1377
01:26:07,240 --> 01:26:11,000
y'all can help me understand 
that little the plot twist, the 

1378
01:26:11,000 --> 01:26:13,280
whole thing with Kobe Young's 
mother. 

1379
01:26:13,360 --> 01:26:17,440
Girl, so let's talk about it. 
So there was somebody reached 

1380
01:26:17,440 --> 01:26:18,960
out. 
That was the question that I got

1381
01:26:19,000 --> 01:26:24,160
that someone was like you guys 
need to talk about this thing 

1382
01:26:24,160 --> 01:26:26,840
that happened since the last few
episodes. 

1383
01:26:27,480 --> 01:26:30,880
So this person said I only 
watched this last year and I 

1384
01:26:30,880 --> 01:26:33,680
ended up watching it twice the 
second time forcing my husband 

1385
01:26:33,680 --> 01:26:36,600
to watch it with me. 
It is a 10 out of 10K drama for 

1386
01:26:36,600 --> 01:26:38,800
me. 
I love the arc with all three 

1387
01:26:38,800 --> 01:26:40,280
leads. 
Some of my questions what do you

1388
01:26:40,280 --> 01:26:44,080
think about the mystery nurse 
slash mom plot twist? 

1389
01:26:44,560 --> 01:26:48,840
I cannot tell you anything about
the motivations of that mom. 

1390
01:26:50,200 --> 01:26:55,560
I was so confused. 
I was so confused by her and 

1391
01:26:55,560 --> 01:27:00,360
that she just first she she was 
like plotting this for 12 years 

1392
01:27:00,360 --> 01:27:05,040
with the dad as a patient and 
then she flipped in the last 

1393
01:27:05,040 --> 01:27:08,320
moments because she wanted 
Munyang to be hers. 

1394
01:27:08,840 --> 01:27:12,400
Guys I am completely lost with 
that one. 

1395
01:27:12,400 --> 01:27:15,200
And you know what normally bring
it down 3.5. 

1396
01:27:18,880 --> 01:27:24,000
I get it. 
So half a star for Kim SU Hyun 

1397
01:27:24,400 --> 01:27:30,240
and the mental health and half a
star for this fucking wild plot 

1398
01:27:30,240 --> 01:27:32,920
twist in this show. 
And that's where I'm at with 

1399
01:27:32,920 --> 01:27:34,720
four-star four. 
I'm not sorry. 

1400
01:27:34,960 --> 01:27:37,600
Force hold you bottles out of 
five. 

1401
01:27:37,600 --> 01:27:42,440
Because I'll tell you, five 
years ago when I watched this, I

1402
01:27:42,440 --> 01:27:44,560
thought it came out of left 
field, but I just kind of like 

1403
01:27:44,560 --> 01:27:47,760
took it. 
I was just like, OK, fine. 

1404
01:27:48,000 --> 01:27:52,080
And that was my approach in the 
blog review that I did this time

1405
01:27:52,080 --> 01:27:54,560
around. 
I was like reading the tea 

1406
01:27:54,560 --> 01:27:56,880
leaves on it. 
I was picking up all the clues. 

1407
01:27:56,880 --> 01:27:59,640
I was like, OK, they're setting 
a lot of things into motion in 

1408
01:27:59,640 --> 01:28:04,400
the early episodes with there's 
a ghost haunting the hospital, 

1409
01:28:04,400 --> 01:28:08,000
people are hearing My Darling 
Clementine being hummed in the 

1410
01:28:08,000 --> 01:28:12,880
halls, and someone is is choking
out the dad in the middle of the

1411
01:28:12,880 --> 01:28:17,040
night and causing his seizures. 
And a lot of different things 

1412
01:28:17,120 --> 01:28:20,120
are happening that are 
supposedly clues. 

1413
01:28:20,560 --> 01:28:26,440
I appreciated the mystery, the 
enigma of the mom when it was 

1414
01:28:26,440 --> 01:28:32,360
just this spirit, this sort of 
ghost, this presence that was 

1415
01:28:32,360 --> 01:28:37,760
oppressing Moon Young and sort 
of heavy over her life, right? 

1416
01:28:38,160 --> 01:28:42,280
And I liked the mystery that she
could be alive. 

1417
01:28:42,280 --> 01:28:44,920
We don't know where she is. 
Her body is missing. 

1418
01:28:44,960 --> 01:28:50,000
We don't know if she could be 
around, could come back into her

1419
01:28:50,000 --> 01:28:52,760
life. 
When it was revealed that it was

1420
01:28:52,760 --> 01:28:54,520
Nurse Park, I was like, get the 
fuck out. 

1421
01:28:54,520 --> 01:28:58,760
Like, honestly, I hated it. 
I hated it. 

1422
01:28:58,760 --> 01:29:00,440
I hated it. 
I wanted to flip a table. 

1423
01:29:00,760 --> 01:29:06,440
Even though apparently this was 
a theory that people had back in

1424
01:29:06,440 --> 01:29:10,840
the day when they when people 
were watching it ongoing, they 

1425
01:29:10,840 --> 01:29:12,480
had the theory that Nurse Park 
was the mom. 

1426
01:29:13,240 --> 01:29:16,840
Yeah, I remember. 
I called it like episode like 3 

1427
01:29:16,840 --> 01:29:19,000
or something. 
Normally remember I was like 

1428
01:29:19,000 --> 01:29:22,640
Nurse Dad, She's shady, 
something's gonna come up with 

1429
01:29:22,640 --> 01:29:25,400
her. 
But that does not mean that I 

1430
01:29:25,400 --> 01:29:28,080
appreciated how it came. 
Up exactly the execution. 

1431
01:29:28,760 --> 01:29:30,360
It's the execution, right? 
I was. 

1432
01:29:31,480 --> 01:29:34,040
Like what? 
And you know, they connected all

1433
01:29:34,040 --> 01:29:37,840
the dots with the butterfly, the
brother's mom. 

1434
01:29:37,840 --> 01:29:41,720
And, and then she said she just,
she just blew up on us. 

1435
01:29:41,760 --> 01:29:44,360
And it's like I was fast 
forwarding a little bit. 

1436
01:29:48,480 --> 01:29:52,000
No, Lisa, do you want to, like, 
weigh in on the mom on the 

1437
01:29:52,000 --> 01:29:55,800
twist? 
I mean, I just remember again, 

1438
01:29:55,800 --> 01:30:00,440
like, it did feel rewatching it,
I didn't get to the point where,

1439
01:30:00,440 --> 01:30:03,160
you know, she's revealed. 
But rewatching it, I was 

1440
01:30:03,160 --> 01:30:05,800
watching that character. 
Yeah, because I was just like, 

1441
01:30:05,800 --> 01:30:08,920
OK, what? 
What did I miss the first time 

1442
01:30:08,920 --> 01:30:10,200
around? 
It's not overt. 

1443
01:30:10,520 --> 01:30:14,160
I will say it's not, not yeah. 
It's not there are many things 

1444
01:30:14,160 --> 01:30:16,920
because all along I was just 
like, wow, like, you know, this 

1445
01:30:16,920 --> 01:30:20,440
nurse, what a she's so good at 
her job. 

1446
01:30:20,440 --> 01:30:24,600
Look at her go you and, you 
know, rewatching it, I'm like, 

1447
01:30:24,600 --> 01:30:27,320
OK, there were some moments. 
So I'm just like, she's staring 

1448
01:30:27,320 --> 01:30:31,120
a little too long at this person
or whatever it was, right? 

1449
01:30:31,120 --> 01:30:35,480
But even then, I was just like, 
what a wild, wild, wild, wild, 

1450
01:30:35,520 --> 01:30:37,880
wild it. 
Still feels like it came out of 

1451
01:30:37,880 --> 01:30:40,240
left field. 
Yeah, it did feel like I was 

1452
01:30:40,240 --> 01:30:42,880
just like, wow, that's kind of 
contrived in a sense. 

1453
01:30:43,720 --> 01:30:48,200
And then, as always, whenever 
you have, we met as kids, Yeah. 

1454
01:30:48,200 --> 01:30:51,400
And then for there to now be 
this added layer of childhood, 

1455
01:30:51,400 --> 01:30:52,800
can you know? 
Yeah. 

1456
01:30:53,280 --> 01:30:54,480
Yeah, yeah. 
Oh. 

1457
01:30:54,680 --> 01:31:00,400
My gosh, guys, remember the 
scene where Gangte is with 

1458
01:31:00,560 --> 01:31:04,840
Munyang and then she's like a 
child and normally remember we 

1459
01:31:04,840 --> 01:31:08,040
had the conversation even back 
then we were like, that's what 

1460
01:31:08,040 --> 01:31:10,480
we had seen. 
Like they tried. 

1461
01:31:10,480 --> 01:31:12,640
Oh, wait, are you talking about 
the flowers, the flower scene 

1462
01:31:12,640 --> 01:31:15,840
when he gives her flowers and 
then he kind of envisions her as

1463
01:31:15,840 --> 01:31:17,080
a child? 
Yeah. 

1464
01:31:17,360 --> 01:31:19,880
You know, he finally gave her 
flowers. 

1465
01:31:20,920 --> 01:31:23,440
Yeah. 
That's not hitting like it used 

1466
01:31:23,440 --> 01:31:24,800
to. 
Definitely. 

1467
01:31:27,480 --> 01:31:31,880
Not, not quite not. 
Quite not quite hitting the 

1468
01:31:31,880 --> 01:31:33,880
same. 
I agree completely. 

1469
01:31:34,000 --> 01:31:38,120
I almost did a video. 
I was because I I was like, 

1470
01:31:38,120 --> 01:31:40,280
maybe I'll do like a little 
quick, you know, shitty little 

1471
01:31:40,280 --> 01:31:42,600
TikTok on this. 
And then I was like, I'm not 

1472
01:31:42,600 --> 01:31:45,680
going to you know what? 
I'm choosing peace today. 

1473
01:31:45,680 --> 01:31:49,440
And I was like, no, we're just 
going to move on and keep 

1474
01:31:49,440 --> 01:31:53,000
playing this show. 
I agree completely. 

1475
01:31:53,000 --> 01:31:56,280
That was what, like midway 
through the show, maybe. 

1476
01:31:57,160 --> 01:31:59,720
Yeah, around midway through the 
show. 

1477
01:32:00,600 --> 01:32:03,280
And I agree. 
I, I had to pause and take a 

1478
01:32:03,280 --> 01:32:08,880
minute. 
I was like, because what, what 

1479
01:32:08,880 --> 01:32:13,280
transpired before that was so 
sweet, was so pure. 

1480
01:32:13,760 --> 01:32:16,520
He finally goes and gets her 
flowers. 

1481
01:32:16,520 --> 01:32:18,560
He's like, I got you something 
that I, you know, never got to 

1482
01:32:18,560 --> 01:32:23,120
give you before because she 
trampled on the flowers that he 

1483
01:32:23,400 --> 01:32:27,600
came to give her before as a 
child and scared him off. 

1484
01:32:27,600 --> 01:32:30,600
He ran off and he gives her the 
flowers. 

1485
01:32:30,840 --> 01:32:32,720
She's like, oh, my God, they're 
so beautiful. 

1486
01:32:32,720 --> 01:32:35,280
And he's like, you're beautiful.
It's like, very. 

1487
01:32:35,280 --> 01:32:37,520
It's like, you know, it's so 
saccharine. 

1488
01:32:38,360 --> 01:32:41,680
And he goes in and he just 
kisses her and he just starts 

1489
01:32:41,880 --> 01:32:45,560
giggling. 
And he's so giddy and smiley and

1490
01:32:45,560 --> 01:32:48,160
she's smiling. 
It's just such a great moment 

1491
01:32:48,160 --> 01:32:50,760
between them. 
It's so almost innocent, like 

1492
01:32:50,760 --> 01:32:54,160
childlike between them. 
And then they go with like, cut 

1493
01:32:54,200 --> 01:32:59,480
to it is adult Kim Sukhyon 
envisioning her as a child with 

1494
01:32:59,480 --> 01:33:01,560
the flowers. 
And I'm like, Yep, Nope. 

1495
01:33:01,680 --> 01:33:03,480
I'm tapping out. 
I'm tapping. 

1496
01:33:08,240 --> 01:33:11,520
Oh, no, Seth didn't age well. 
Didn't age well at all. 

1497
01:33:11,760 --> 01:33:17,400
But, you know, circling back to 
the mom, OK, the plot twist for 

1498
01:33:17,400 --> 01:33:20,160
the reveal of Nurse Park and 
everything happens in episode 

1499
01:33:20,160 --> 01:33:24,480
13. 
We see Nurse Park driving off, 

1500
01:33:24,920 --> 01:33:28,080
smiling maniacally. 
She's alive. 

1501
01:33:28,080 --> 01:33:32,200
She's wearing her bespoke 
butterfly brooch again that she 

1502
01:33:32,200 --> 01:33:35,480
stole from the mansion, and 
she's got her red nails on the 

1503
01:33:35,480 --> 01:33:40,000
red lipstick, and she's just 
vandalized Sante's painting with

1504
01:33:40,120 --> 01:33:42,600
the butterfly, which is the 
fugliest butterfly I've ever 

1505
01:33:42,600 --> 01:33:43,880
seen. 
Like, I was like, she couldn't 

1506
01:33:44,680 --> 01:33:48,320
have drawn it better. 
Anyway, I'm like nitpicking the 

1507
01:33:48,320 --> 01:33:52,440
shit out of this bitch. 
Anyway, so that is when everyone

1508
01:33:52,440 --> 01:33:56,600
is reeling. 
Moon Young finally realizes that

1509
01:33:56,600 --> 01:34:00,400
not only is her mother alive and
that her mother is Nurse Park, 

1510
01:34:00,680 --> 01:34:06,120
their mother murdered their 
mother back in the day and 

1511
01:34:06,120 --> 01:34:09,920
caused all of this heartache and
all of this whole spiral to 

1512
01:34:09,920 --> 01:34:13,880
happen in their lives. 
How did you feel about maybe 

1513
01:34:14,080 --> 01:34:20,120
Moon Young feeling responsible 
and at fault for what her mother

1514
01:34:20,120 --> 01:34:23,400
did? 
Did that feel true to her 

1515
01:34:23,400 --> 01:34:29,000
character, or was her even 
feeling bad a reflection of how 

1516
01:34:29,000 --> 01:34:32,440
much growth she'd had? 
Because I almost feel like, 

1517
01:34:32,720 --> 01:34:34,360
well, I mean, I don't know. 
I don't know. 

1518
01:34:34,520 --> 01:34:38,760
Because I wonder if episode 1 
Munyang would have been like, 

1519
01:34:39,280 --> 01:34:43,240
OK, sounds like a personal 
problem to me, right. 

1520
01:34:44,160 --> 01:34:48,000
Whereas here for her to even be 
feeling bad is is it because she

1521
01:34:48,000 --> 01:34:51,880
now has this this connection, 
this affection for these 

1522
01:34:51,880 --> 01:34:55,680
brothers. 
And so, you know, she their pain

1523
01:34:55,680 --> 01:34:59,000
is her pain, Ish. 
And so, yeah, I don't know. 

1524
01:34:59,040 --> 01:35:01,200
I mean, I don't know, hadn't 
thought about it. 

1525
01:35:01,240 --> 01:35:02,960
It's. 
Like I think it's definitely a 

1526
01:35:02,960 --> 01:35:08,560
character growth thing where she
now had more empathy and she was

1527
01:35:08,560 --> 01:35:14,360
now in in love, right? 
And this is a pain that her love

1528
01:35:14,360 --> 01:35:17,960
was feeling, and she felt the 
weight of that. 

1529
01:35:18,120 --> 01:35:22,800
And I thought, yeah, I thought 
it made sense for her to to feel

1530
01:35:22,800 --> 01:35:27,080
that way at that stage. 
I mean, they drew it out a 

1531
01:35:27,080 --> 01:35:31,200
little bit, but definitely I 
felt that it would it would make

1532
01:35:31,200 --> 01:35:35,280
sense for her to be at that 
point and that at that stage of 

1533
01:35:35,280 --> 01:35:37,760
the story. 
I think it was completely 

1534
01:35:38,360 --> 01:35:41,240
unbelievable and warranted that 
she would feel that way. 

1535
01:35:41,240 --> 01:35:46,320
And if you haven't been watching
K dramas for a long time, there 

1536
01:35:46,320 --> 01:35:50,360
is a huge like sins of the 
father thing in Korea, right? 

1537
01:35:50,800 --> 01:35:54,640
So they place a lot of blame on 
children. 

1538
01:35:54,640 --> 01:35:59,840
And there is this whole 
bloodlines concept in Korea 

1539
01:35:59,840 --> 01:36:02,600
where you don't really know 
someone unless they you know who

1540
01:36:02,600 --> 01:36:05,720
their family is, what they do 
and where they come from. 

1541
01:36:06,680 --> 01:36:08,800
Our mother is a psycho and a 
murderer. 

1542
01:36:09,280 --> 01:36:12,920
The fact that she's like, leave,
I'm going to hurt you eventually

1543
01:36:13,320 --> 01:36:16,840
stems from that. 
It stems from not the fact that 

1544
01:36:16,840 --> 01:36:21,320
she's been, you know, nurtured 
by them the last several months,

1545
01:36:21,680 --> 01:36:26,600
healed throughout the show. 
It's that she could turn out 

1546
01:36:26,600 --> 01:36:28,680
like her mom, right? 
That's her blood. 

1547
01:36:29,600 --> 01:36:33,680
It's really heartbreaking to see
her think that way. 

1548
01:36:33,680 --> 01:36:38,760
And it's really sad, but also 
gratifying to see that contest 

1549
01:36:38,800 --> 01:36:41,040
stays by her. 
He want, he's like, you know 

1550
01:36:41,040 --> 01:36:42,720
what? 
No, I've made my decision. 

1551
01:36:43,280 --> 01:36:45,760
You know, I've wrestled with 
this and I love you. 

1552
01:36:45,760 --> 01:36:48,600
We're going to stick together 
and I'm going to work through 

1553
01:36:48,600 --> 01:36:50,440
this alongside of you because I 
love you. 

1554
01:36:50,720 --> 01:36:53,120
The alternative is you're not in
my life, and that's more 

1555
01:36:53,120 --> 01:36:56,200
painful. 
So I found that extremely 

1556
01:36:56,200 --> 01:37:01,080
powerful, extremely moving in 
the argument of nature versus 

1557
01:37:01,080 --> 01:37:04,240
nurture. 
Korea's definitely on the nature

1558
01:37:04,240 --> 01:37:07,320
side. 
If some, if you're the daughter 

1559
01:37:07,320 --> 01:37:10,960
or son of a of a killer, you're 
definitely going to turn out to 

1560
01:37:10,960 --> 01:37:13,000
be a killer, right? 
Like for sure, that's what Korea

1561
01:37:13,000 --> 01:37:16,320
thinks. 
So what's interesting about the 

1562
01:37:16,320 --> 01:37:21,480
show is that the mom also 
nurtured her to be a psycho, to 

1563
01:37:21,520 --> 01:37:25,760
have these antisocial 
personality disorder tendencies,

1564
01:37:26,040 --> 01:37:30,640
which is why I think maybe the 
writer didn't want to make 

1565
01:37:30,640 --> 01:37:33,640
anything black and white 
regarding her diagnosis. 

1566
01:37:34,280 --> 01:37:38,000
Because it seems like by the end
of the show, she's well on her 

1567
01:37:38,000 --> 01:37:43,480
way to being cured, right? 
She's, she's showing so much 

1568
01:37:43,840 --> 01:37:47,400
emotion, so much promise. 
She's understanding herself a 

1569
01:37:47,400 --> 01:37:51,000
lot better and she's integrating
better within, you know, this 

1570
01:37:51,000 --> 01:37:54,080
found family and this, this new 
family that she's forged. 

1571
01:37:54,640 --> 01:38:01,240
She's a lot less volatile. 
I wonder if she even had any 

1572
01:38:01,240 --> 01:38:06,080
social personality disorder, 
truly, or if it was nurtured in 

1573
01:38:06,080 --> 01:38:10,400
her by her psycho mother. 
If that was something that her 

1574
01:38:10,400 --> 01:38:13,880
mother was like, I'm going to 
nurture also train her to be 

1575
01:38:13,880 --> 01:38:17,480
just like me, something that 
isn't, again, like that's just 

1576
01:38:17,480 --> 01:38:19,280
something open to her 
interpretation. 

1577
01:38:19,640 --> 01:38:23,400
Although I'm not sure it should 
be in the context of like good 

1578
01:38:23,400 --> 01:38:25,760
mental illness representation 
and mental health 

1579
01:38:25,800 --> 01:38:29,920
representation. 
It's kind of just like very 

1580
01:38:29,920 --> 01:38:32,960
vague. 
Does she or does she not have 

1581
01:38:33,040 --> 01:38:39,520
antisocial personality disorder?
But the goofiness of the mom in 

1582
01:38:39,520 --> 01:38:42,680
the last couple of episodes, I 
couldn't get behind that. 

1583
01:38:44,920 --> 01:38:47,920
Yeah, couldn't get behind that. 
She came back and she was like, 

1584
01:38:48,000 --> 01:38:51,480
oh, I want my daughter. 
She's not acting right. 

1585
01:38:51,480 --> 01:38:54,760
I want her to become more like 
how she used to be. 

1586
01:38:54,760 --> 01:38:58,840
She kidnaps on drugs. 
Sante Kante rushes to the 

1587
01:38:58,840 --> 01:39:00,400
mansion. 
It's a face off. 

1588
01:39:01,000 --> 01:39:04,800
It is so cartoonish. 
It just cheapened a lot of the 

1589
01:39:04,800 --> 01:39:10,400
show to me. 
I didn't like the ultimatum also

1590
01:39:10,400 --> 01:39:12,880
that she gave him. 
Yeah. 

1591
01:39:13,240 --> 01:39:15,800
When she's going like this, like
with her arms wide open, she's 

1592
01:39:15,800 --> 01:39:21,920
like, or you just kill me. 
And then when she realizes that 

1593
01:39:21,920 --> 01:39:24,560
you've killed me for revenge, 
you've killed her mother for 

1594
01:39:24,560 --> 01:39:27,800
revenge, then she'll go back to 
how she used to be. 

1595
01:39:27,800 --> 01:39:30,280
I was like, what the fuck are we
doing here? 

1596
01:39:30,760 --> 01:39:33,800
I was like. 
Like, no way, just we're, we're 

1597
01:39:33,800 --> 01:39:39,440
always talking about how K 
dramas, like when it comes to 

1598
01:39:39,920 --> 01:39:44,760
the ending, it's always such a, 
it's a, it's a shaky road to the

1599
01:39:44,760 --> 01:39:49,120
end because the plot can get 
derailed so easily, you know, 

1600
01:39:49,120 --> 01:39:52,560
and it's almost like I'm all, 
we're always laughing stuff 

1601
01:39:52,560 --> 01:39:55,000
like, OK, is it now that they're
feeling the pressure? 

1602
01:39:55,000 --> 01:39:57,320
Like the drama is doing really 
well and it's like, we want 

1603
01:39:57,320 --> 01:39:59,880
there to be a really spectacular
ending. 

1604
01:40:00,200 --> 01:40:02,920
And sometimes it's like, are we 
trying to do too much? 

1605
01:40:03,320 --> 01:40:05,680
To to wrap it up. 
They did too much. 

1606
01:40:06,120 --> 01:40:08,560
Yeah, yeah. 
And it's like sometimes, you 

1607
01:40:08,560 --> 01:40:10,920
know, simple, simple is OK, 
right. 

1608
01:40:11,000 --> 01:40:14,160
I think to your point where it 
was like, OK, we could keep it. 

1609
01:40:14,360 --> 01:40:18,200
I don't know how they would have
resolved her mother that whole 

1610
01:40:18,200 --> 01:40:22,000
thing in a simpler or like at 
least a way that's more like, 

1611
01:40:22,000 --> 01:40:24,520
OK, yeah, love that. 
That makes sense. 

1612
01:40:24,520 --> 01:40:28,000
But I'm not the writer here. 
So right, like I'm not going to 

1613
01:40:28,000 --> 01:40:31,600
do her job, but like, honestly, 
well, what did I just watch? 

1614
01:40:31,880 --> 01:40:35,120
What did I just watch? 
The whole the entire 

1615
01:40:35,120 --> 01:40:39,560
confrontation was so cringy. 
And the I think from Jiang Yung 

1616
01:40:39,560 --> 01:40:43,840
Nam, who is playing the 
resurrected mom over the top. 

1617
01:40:43,960 --> 01:40:46,640
And it's not necessarily her 
fault. 

1618
01:40:46,640 --> 01:40:51,360
Like that's how the writer 
intended that to be. 100% Yeah. 

1619
01:40:51,840 --> 01:40:57,240
Even the ham fisted that Sunday 
clocks are over the head with a 

1620
01:40:57,240 --> 01:41:02,520
freaking fairy tale book. 
There's so many scenes, Oh my 

1621
01:41:02,520 --> 01:41:06,880
gosh. 
Oh God, it was too. 

1622
01:41:07,000 --> 01:41:09,040
So here's a fist. 
Here's Ham. 

1623
01:41:09,120 --> 01:41:10,760
Like it was literally so Ham 
fisted. 

1624
01:41:11,320 --> 01:41:13,120
I like the fact that he saved 
the day. 

1625
01:41:13,120 --> 01:41:15,400
I don't like how he saved it. 
It was just. 

1626
01:41:19,040 --> 01:41:20,360
It's like you had the right 
idea. 

1627
01:41:20,680 --> 01:41:24,840
Right, that's what the hell. 
That's what I'm saying anyway. 

1628
01:41:25,440 --> 01:41:30,560
So there's a lot of really great
moments in the finale though, 

1629
01:41:31,280 --> 01:41:37,160
post all of this nonsense that I
teared up at, like the tree 

1630
01:41:37,160 --> 01:41:40,640
planting scene where they like 
plant the tree in honor of their

1631
01:41:40,640 --> 01:41:44,400
mom and they put the new family 
photo on there. 

1632
01:41:44,880 --> 01:41:49,360
Sante is saying you weren't born
to take care of me, that's not 

1633
01:41:49,360 --> 01:41:52,440
why mom gave birth to you. 
And it's just a very full circle

1634
01:41:52,440 --> 01:41:56,400
moment for the brothers. 
It's completely needed. 

1635
01:41:56,960 --> 01:42:00,240
Appealing moment between them. 
Very beautiful. 

1636
01:42:00,560 --> 01:42:03,680
What was also beautiful, 
something we haven't touched on 

1637
01:42:03,680 --> 01:42:09,120
specifically is the relationship
between Sante and Munyang and 

1638
01:42:09,120 --> 01:42:13,320
how she just treated him just 
really just like another person.

1639
01:42:13,320 --> 01:42:17,240
And the way they relationship 
evolved is as siblings. 

1640
01:42:17,240 --> 01:42:21,800
And him feeding her in the last 
few episodes when she felt 

1641
01:42:21,800 --> 01:42:24,520
guilty about her her mom killing
their mom. 

1642
01:42:24,920 --> 01:42:29,360
It was such a sweet relationship
and it was so pure. 

1643
01:42:29,360 --> 01:42:35,400
I love that I I just wanted to 
let those dynamics those two did

1644
01:42:35,560 --> 01:42:37,320
did so well. 
Yeah. 

1645
01:42:38,040 --> 01:42:41,400
Now, thank you for bringing that
up, because I was just thinking 

1646
01:42:41,560 --> 01:42:45,600
how for Sante, it seems one of 
his gripes, if we can call it 

1647
01:42:45,600 --> 01:42:50,640
that, is that all he wanted to 
do was to be seen and treated as

1648
01:42:51,160 --> 01:42:54,160
the Big Brother right by by 
Kante, right. 

1649
01:42:54,160 --> 01:42:56,680
And it's like he wasn't. 
He knew he wasn't getting that. 

1650
01:42:56,680 --> 01:42:59,560
He knew that Kante was 
essentially walking on egg 

1651
01:42:59,560 --> 01:43:04,480
shells around him and never 
really being honest about how he

1652
01:43:04,480 --> 01:43:07,240
may have been feeling. 
Whereas with Munyang, Munyang 

1653
01:43:07,240 --> 01:43:09,640
from the get go was like, that's
my dog. 

1654
01:43:09,680 --> 01:43:13,080
Like the fact that they were 
able to fight and, you know, 

1655
01:43:13,080 --> 01:43:17,400
have their little spats, but 
like it was such a a genuine and

1656
01:43:17,680 --> 01:43:21,400
yeah, a really authentic 
connection and relationship. 

1657
01:43:21,400 --> 01:43:24,680
And yeah, I love that. 
That then opened up a way for 

1658
01:43:24,680 --> 01:43:27,560
the brothers to also, you know, 
find a way to each other. 

1659
01:43:27,560 --> 01:43:32,880
Or back to each other? 
Yeah, you got that call back in 

1660
01:43:32,880 --> 01:43:37,000
the episode 15 of him 
desperately screaming at her. 

1661
01:43:37,000 --> 01:43:39,720
I love you because she's pushing
him away. 

1662
01:43:39,720 --> 01:43:43,360
And like, no, I don't want to be
with you because it's it, you 

1663
01:43:43,360 --> 01:43:46,680
know, I love when they circle 
back on things like that. 

1664
01:43:47,320 --> 01:43:50,760
Were there other big moments 
that you guys really appreciated

1665
01:43:50,760 --> 01:43:53,680
in the show? 
I mean, I always love me a good 

1666
01:43:53,680 --> 01:43:57,360
kiss. 
Well, they're this show has so 

1667
01:43:57,360 --> 01:44:05,360
many like good kisses, right? 
Even the last episode between 15

1668
01:44:05,360 --> 01:44:07,960
and 16, there's them. 
I think they make out on the 

1669
01:44:07,960 --> 01:44:11,200
desk right in the. 
Mansion. 

1670
01:44:11,320 --> 01:44:17,360
The castle, which is like. 
I remember being very proud of 

1671
01:44:17,360 --> 01:44:21,520
them and being like this is what
we wanted, mature kissing that 

1672
01:44:22,200 --> 01:44:25,640
everybody short kissing, 
everybody's involved. 

1673
01:44:27,960 --> 01:44:29,720
Everybody kisses. 
Yeah, exactly. 

1674
01:44:33,160 --> 01:44:35,160
But. 
Yeah. 

1675
01:44:35,680 --> 01:44:38,560
I was going to say a scene that 
I really loved. 

1676
01:44:38,560 --> 01:44:42,240
I mean, it's earlier in the 
drama is when when she first 

1677
01:44:42,240 --> 01:44:45,440
has, it's not her first 
nightmare, but she has that 

1678
01:44:45,440 --> 01:44:47,280
nightmare and. 
Oh yeah. 

1679
01:44:47,480 --> 01:44:50,880
Essentially, he like, you know, 
he, he comes to the room and 

1680
01:44:50,880 --> 01:44:54,600
just calms her down. 
And I, I don't know, it was just

1681
01:44:54,600 --> 01:44:58,680
such a a heart warming scene 
because it's we're seeing 

1682
01:44:59,080 --> 01:45:03,360
Munyang's vulnerability after 
we've seen her in her badass 

1683
01:45:03,360 --> 01:45:06,400
element and just, you know, like
nobody can touch me. 

1684
01:45:06,400 --> 01:45:08,640
Nothing can touch me. 
But like just seeing her in that

1685
01:45:08,640 --> 01:45:12,040
super vulnerable moment. 
And he bears witness to that. 

1686
01:45:12,560 --> 01:45:14,480
That was a a powerful scene for 
me. 

1687
01:45:14,520 --> 01:45:16,240
Yeah. 
I think it really just showed 

1688
01:45:16,560 --> 01:45:18,080
their chemistry, 
unconnectedness. 

1689
01:45:18,480 --> 01:45:20,200
Yeah, I agree. 
I agree completely. 

1690
01:45:20,200 --> 01:45:23,960
She's screaming and sobbing for 
him to get out while 

1691
01:45:23,960 --> 01:45:28,040
simultaneously clinging on to 
him for dear life, and he reads 

1692
01:45:28,040 --> 01:45:32,120
her correctly that she doesn't 
want him to leave, actually, and

1693
01:45:32,120 --> 01:45:34,680
he just hugs her to his chest 
and says I won't leave, I won't 

1694
01:45:34,680 --> 01:45:36,200
leave, don't worry, I won't 
leave. 

1695
01:45:37,480 --> 01:45:41,160
I loved it, sue me, I'm buying 
it. 

1696
01:45:41,240 --> 01:45:43,160
I'm eating it up. 
It's great. 

1697
01:45:44,040 --> 01:45:48,560
That's a great scene. 
There's so many actually in in 

1698
01:45:48,560 --> 01:45:51,400
the first few episodes that are 
so iconic. 

1699
01:45:52,160 --> 01:45:55,480
Like I vividly remember her 
making the kid cry in the 

1700
01:45:55,480 --> 01:46:03,000
restaurant and stealing the 
knife and like trying to kill 

1701
01:46:03,000 --> 01:46:07,400
the escaped patient who was 
trying to commit suicide with 

1702
01:46:07,400 --> 01:46:13,280
his daughter, him blocking the 
knife and then she stabs Kante. 

1703
01:46:13,520 --> 01:46:17,600
Wild. 
Just like wild stuff in the 1st 

1704
01:46:17,600 --> 01:46:19,120
episode. 
Yeah. 

1705
01:46:19,560 --> 01:46:21,520
The flashback scene. 
All the flashback scenes are 

1706
01:46:21,520 --> 01:46:26,520
really cool because the little 
girl that plays her is so 

1707
01:46:26,520 --> 01:46:30,400
beautiful and so haunting. 
I'm not sure if I've seen her in

1708
01:46:30,400 --> 01:46:34,800
some other stuff since then, but
yeah, when you finally get the 

1709
01:46:34,800 --> 01:46:38,320
full flashback of her saving 
him, it's really great. 

1710
01:46:38,320 --> 01:46:42,080
And I think that's a little bit 
of the argument for she's 

1711
01:46:42,080 --> 01:46:46,040
probably not, doesn't have 
antisocial personality disorder 

1712
01:46:46,040 --> 01:46:50,440
because she's like ripping 
petals to figure out if she's 

1713
01:46:50,440 --> 01:46:51,960
going to save him. 
She's like, I'll save him, I 

1714
01:46:52,000 --> 01:46:53,560
won't save him, I'll save him, 
won't save him. 

1715
01:46:53,560 --> 01:46:56,360
And on the last pedal, it's she 
will not save him. 

1716
01:46:57,440 --> 01:46:59,720
And we know she does. 
She does it anyway. 

1717
01:47:00,200 --> 01:47:03,000
Yeah, yeah. 
So she's, you know, she's a good

1718
01:47:03,000 --> 01:47:05,040
person. 
She does it anyway, even as a 

1719
01:47:05,040 --> 01:47:08,920
child. 
And thinking of flashbacks, one 

1720
01:47:08,920 --> 01:47:12,560
of the scenes that I really 
loved was when we we flashback 

1721
01:47:12,560 --> 01:47:16,160
to Sante and Kante with their 
mother. 

1722
01:47:16,160 --> 01:47:19,000
I think they were sleeping well.
They're they're actually just a 

1723
01:47:19,000 --> 01:47:22,880
few different moments where 
Kante is remembering it as the 

1724
01:47:22,880 --> 01:47:26,880
mom focusing exclusively on 
Sante and he's just kind of 

1725
01:47:26,880 --> 01:47:30,040
like, you know, feeling just 
cast aside. 

1726
01:47:30,360 --> 01:47:35,160
But when they show, I guess the 
other perspective, it's like she

1727
01:47:35,560 --> 01:47:37,520
she was always also looking out 
for him. 

1728
01:47:37,520 --> 01:47:41,280
Like when they're walking, I 
think she's carrying an umbrella

1729
01:47:41,280 --> 01:47:44,080
and she turns back and like 
calls him when they're sleeping,

1730
01:47:44,080 --> 01:47:48,120
he thinks. 
So she has her back to him and 

1731
01:47:48,120 --> 01:47:51,760
she's kind of hugging Sante and 
he's just there feeling unloved 

1732
01:47:51,760 --> 01:47:54,560
and whatever. 
But you know, she like she turns

1733
01:47:54,560 --> 01:47:58,360
around and I don't know, it's 
just it's such a there's so much

1734
01:47:58,360 --> 01:48:03,680
love that he wasn't seeing that 
his mom is really just. 

1735
01:48:04,600 --> 01:48:08,360
I agree, yeah. 
Yeah, what did you think about 

1736
01:48:08,480 --> 01:48:11,800
Chase Sue? 
The little psychic, the friends,

1737
01:48:12,120 --> 01:48:18,320
the pizza pizzeria owner. 
I don't think I had that many 

1738
01:48:18,320 --> 01:48:24,440
thoughts about him to be honest.
I honestly thought if this was a

1739
01:48:24,440 --> 01:48:29,440
western show he would be in a 
full on one sided love with 

1740
01:48:29,480 --> 01:48:31,600
Kante right? 
Like this would be a gay 

1741
01:48:31,600 --> 01:48:36,040
character and he would be moving
around because he loves it. 

1742
01:48:36,040 --> 01:48:38,040
Like he's romantically in love 
with him. 

1743
01:48:38,040 --> 01:48:42,040
But I guess because it's 
platonic and they're just 

1744
01:48:42,040 --> 01:48:45,000
friends it almost makes even 
less sense. 

1745
01:48:45,000 --> 01:48:47,320
Like why is this guy putting his
life on hold? 

1746
01:48:48,480 --> 01:48:51,520
Exactly. 
Moving around with that, like 

1747
01:48:52,240 --> 01:48:53,760
what did you guys think? 
What? 

1748
01:48:53,760 --> 01:48:56,360
Same exactly. 
I'm like, I love my friends, but

1749
01:48:56,360 --> 01:48:59,600
am I going to just yeah, like 
what? 

1750
01:48:59,600 --> 01:49:01,320
What am I doing in my life? 
Like what? 

1751
01:49:01,320 --> 01:49:04,120
What is motivating me in life? 
What do I want in life? 

1752
01:49:04,120 --> 01:49:07,720
And it's just not coming across 
so much for Jason. 

1753
01:49:07,720 --> 01:49:10,960
He's just like, I want to be. 
I'm the third brother and I'm 

1754
01:49:10,960 --> 01:49:14,440
like, OK. 
No one else. 

1755
01:49:14,440 --> 01:49:17,360
Cody was the 3rd brother. 
That was the saddest. 

1756
01:49:18,080 --> 01:49:23,400
That was the saddest part about 
Jason character Jason Jury, the 

1757
01:49:23,400 --> 01:49:25,960
publisher. 
All those characters, just like 

1758
01:49:26,680 --> 01:49:31,160
they were all created to just 
plop up the three main 

1759
01:49:31,160 --> 01:49:34,240
characters, regardless of how 
pitiful their own lives were. 

1760
01:49:35,480 --> 01:49:37,960
In episode 3, she says what is a
fairy tale? 

1761
01:49:37,960 --> 01:49:40,920
A fairy tale is a cruel fantasy 
that illustrates the brutality 

1762
01:49:40,920 --> 01:49:43,800
and violence of this world in a 
paradoxical manner. 

1763
01:49:44,320 --> 01:49:46,760
Wow. 
She said glass half empty. 

1764
01:49:47,560 --> 01:49:51,000
Literally glass half empty. 
Something that I did love about 

1765
01:49:51,000 --> 01:49:56,280
her is that she is very sexually
forward and she says multiple 

1766
01:49:56,280 --> 01:49:58,320
times like, do you want to sleep
with me? 

1767
01:49:58,320 --> 01:50:02,120
Yes, I'm horny, I admit that. 
And she's constantly trying to 

1768
01:50:02,120 --> 01:50:06,240
jump his bones and I don't know,
that really worked for me. 

1769
01:50:06,480 --> 01:50:09,480
Did you guys feel the same way 
or did you feel like it was 

1770
01:50:09,600 --> 01:50:11,760
overkill? 
No, I loved it. 

1771
01:50:11,760 --> 01:50:14,440
She was. 
She represents what we always 

1772
01:50:14,440 --> 01:50:18,280
see in those CEO's, those K 
drama CEO's. 

1773
01:50:18,280 --> 01:50:21,320
And I was, I was here for it. 
I was like, Munya. 

1774
01:50:21,320 --> 01:50:23,960
Express yourself, girl. 
Get that man naked. 

1775
01:50:25,880 --> 01:50:28,960
And I think, I think it's also 
how, and she says a couple of 

1776
01:50:28,960 --> 01:50:32,400
times she's like, when I see 
what I like, I must get it. 

1777
01:50:32,400 --> 01:50:35,880
So she's just very, she's, she's
just all about it. 

1778
01:50:35,880 --> 01:50:40,320
And I'm like, I, I love to see a
sex positive character that's 

1779
01:50:40,720 --> 01:50:43,760
you know, and she's not shying 
away from it. 

1780
01:50:43,760 --> 01:50:46,640
This is, this is who she is and 
just how she rolls. 

1781
01:50:46,680 --> 01:50:50,720
And I know a lot of people were 
probably clutching their pearls 

1782
01:50:50,720 --> 01:50:54,600
like, what in the Yeah. 
I have no doubt. 

1783
01:50:54,600 --> 01:50:59,000
It was great. 
Yeah, in episode 3, there's a 

1784
01:50:59,000 --> 01:51:03,840
scene where the flasher escapes 
and she helps him escape and go 

1785
01:51:03,840 --> 01:51:07,280
to the father's political rally.
And it's this whole thing where 

1786
01:51:07,280 --> 01:51:12,440
he admits on the stage that he's
been seeking his father's 

1787
01:51:12,440 --> 01:51:15,120
attention because he was abused 
and scorned since he wasn't as 

1788
01:51:15,120 --> 01:51:19,120
smart as his siblings who did 
well in school and went to SNU, 

1789
01:51:19,120 --> 01:51:23,200
and he gradually became mentally
ill In the black sheep of the 

1790
01:51:23,200 --> 01:51:29,240
family, the male lead, Kante 
imagines that he's in his place.

1791
01:51:29,240 --> 01:51:32,520
He's taking the place of the 
flasher, evading security and 

1792
01:51:32,520 --> 01:51:36,840
laughing and making a scene and 
dancing on stage and being free,

1793
01:51:37,360 --> 01:51:41,640
freely admitting that he has a 
problem and freely admitting 

1794
01:51:41,640 --> 01:51:45,960
that he's not OK and letting 
loose and unafraid of 

1795
01:51:45,960 --> 01:51:48,440
consequences or of looking 
different or wrong. 

1796
01:51:48,440 --> 01:51:51,240
And this, this OST song is 
playing in the background that's

1797
01:51:51,240 --> 01:51:55,160
saying Hallelujah over and over 
again, which to me implies that 

1798
01:51:55,160 --> 01:51:58,160
this whole thing, there's 
something about this is holy. 

1799
01:51:58,680 --> 01:52:01,400
And at the end of this, he turns
to Moon Young and says, should I

1800
01:52:01,400 --> 01:52:04,520
just have fun with you? 
I love how that kind of bears 

1801
01:52:04,520 --> 01:52:10,280
out in the rest of the show, how
he gradually just unburdens 

1802
01:52:10,280 --> 01:52:16,280
himself and does let loose and 
has fun with her and definitely 

1803
01:52:16,360 --> 01:52:20,960
loosens up, right. 
He's just so uptight, so 

1804
01:52:20,960 --> 01:52:26,360
suppressed, and nothing about 
him is happy, right? 

1805
01:52:26,360 --> 01:52:30,120
Even his brother, you know, 
Sante sees him smiling in his 

1806
01:52:30,120 --> 01:52:34,000
sleep and he's like, I've never 
seen him happy, right? 

1807
01:52:34,000 --> 01:52:36,760
He's like shocked. 
He has to go to the poster full 

1808
01:52:36,760 --> 01:52:38,800
of emotions and he's like, I 
have to identify this emotion 

1809
01:52:39,080 --> 01:52:42,280
because he's never seen Kante 
happy. 

1810
01:52:42,520 --> 01:52:45,240
Yeah. 
My goodness, that was definitely

1811
01:52:45,480 --> 01:52:49,080
one of the most heartbreaking 
things about Kante's character. 

1812
01:52:49,640 --> 01:52:54,000
And to see him smile at the end 
in the last episode, it was 

1813
01:52:54,000 --> 01:52:58,000
just, yeah, I was so beautiful. 
What a what a character, 

1814
01:52:58,000 --> 01:53:01,120
honestly. 
Yeah, not wanting to be a 

1815
01:53:01,120 --> 01:53:04,240
caregiver, being actually really
good at being a caregiver, and 

1816
01:53:04,240 --> 01:53:07,760
then understanding that it's 
really not necessarily a burden 

1817
01:53:07,760 --> 01:53:10,760
and letting go. 
And, you know, it's a delicate 

1818
01:53:10,760 --> 01:53:13,720
balance. 
And Moon Young actually asked 

1819
01:53:13,720 --> 01:53:16,160
him in one of the early 
episodes, why can't he take care

1820
01:53:16,160 --> 01:53:18,680
of her, too? 
And he answers, I don't want to 

1821
01:53:18,680 --> 01:53:20,360
be someone who's needed by 
others anymore. 

1822
01:53:20,360 --> 01:53:23,960
He's just tired, right? 
And she's chasing after him, 

1823
01:53:23,960 --> 01:53:25,720
threatening to kill him if he 
leaves. 

1824
01:53:26,480 --> 01:53:30,040
And she's being very 
manipulative and possessive in 

1825
01:53:30,040 --> 01:53:34,400
this point, using Sante to get 
him to come to her. 

1826
01:53:34,400 --> 01:53:38,160
She's constantly using Sante to 
lure him to the mansion or to 

1827
01:53:38,160 --> 01:53:40,920
where she is. 
And at this point, she says, you

1828
01:53:40,920 --> 01:53:42,360
are mine. 
I let you live. 

1829
01:53:42,360 --> 01:53:45,760
Because the whole thing at this 
point was that they realized the

1830
01:53:45,760 --> 01:53:47,920
childhood connection. 
I don't know. 

1831
01:53:47,920 --> 01:53:51,800
Like, I understand why people 
dropped it if they didn't like 

1832
01:53:51,800 --> 01:53:54,360
the manipulation tactics from 
her. 

1833
01:53:55,040 --> 01:54:00,760
But I also understand that she 
saw through him and he saw 

1834
01:54:00,760 --> 01:54:03,800
through her. 
Yeah, she saw what he needed and

1835
01:54:03,800 --> 01:54:07,040
he saw what she needed. 
Yeah, she calls him a hypocrite,

1836
01:54:07,040 --> 01:54:11,160
like, right off the bat, right? 
And it's like you're out here 

1837
01:54:11,160 --> 01:54:15,320
with this facade, but I see you.
I see you. 

1838
01:54:15,720 --> 01:54:19,160
But what do you think of the 
moment that she cuts her hair? 

1839
01:54:19,400 --> 01:54:21,840
I don't remember that what 
happens in that scene. 

1840
01:54:22,080 --> 01:54:25,520
Yeah, so she cuts her hair. 
It was one of those things where

1841
01:54:25,520 --> 01:54:27,760
her mom was like, you should 
never cut your hair. 

1842
01:54:28,280 --> 01:54:33,400
Kind of unpacking mom trauma. 
She cuts her hair finally, kind 

1843
01:54:33,400 --> 01:54:36,080
of trying to cut off this 
connection and this, this 

1844
01:54:36,080 --> 01:54:39,200
trauma, all this baggage that 
she has with her mom. 

1845
01:54:39,200 --> 01:54:42,280
And she does like a hack job. 
It looks horrible. 

1846
01:54:42,320 --> 01:54:46,440
And Kante fixes her hair and 
does this Bob for her. 

1847
01:54:47,000 --> 01:54:49,520
It looks amazing. 
Apparently he's also a 

1848
01:54:49,520 --> 01:54:53,480
hairdresser. 
Well, from cutting his brother's

1849
01:54:53,480 --> 01:54:56,160
hair, right? 
Because nobody Sante didn't. 

1850
01:54:56,840 --> 01:54:58,720
We didn't want people touching 
his thing. 

1851
01:54:58,760 --> 01:55:00,160
So it's like, OK. 
Apparently. 

1852
01:55:00,160 --> 01:55:04,800
He's he's really talented at 
this because he's his brother's.

1853
01:55:04,960 --> 01:55:09,360
Barber, sure, sure, sure, sure. 
From being a Barber to one 

1854
01:55:09,360 --> 01:55:13,920
person to cutting like an entire
like style. 

1855
01:55:13,920 --> 01:55:19,960
All right, anyway. 
I mean, I think I, I like, I 

1856
01:55:19,960 --> 01:55:24,880
like the symbolism of, you know,
like just that untethering from 

1857
01:55:24,880 --> 01:55:28,320
her, her mom or the, the lore of
her mother, right? 

1858
01:55:28,360 --> 01:55:32,000
Just that, yeah, I think it's 
always, not always. 

1859
01:55:32,000 --> 01:55:36,760
But I like when you have that 
really powerful moment or it's 

1860
01:55:36,760 --> 01:55:39,760
like, OK, this means something 
to the character. 

1861
01:55:39,760 --> 01:55:42,640
And for us looking in, you're 
like, OK, I can see how this 

1862
01:55:43,080 --> 01:55:46,840
this could free you or unburden 
you or untether you from the 

1863
01:55:46,840 --> 01:55:49,320
source of your your pain and 
trauma. 

1864
01:55:49,320 --> 01:55:53,120
And yeah. 
I agree and in the same episode 

1865
01:55:53,120 --> 01:55:56,200
so you have her untethering. 
I like that word they use. 

1866
01:55:56,200 --> 01:55:58,880
So you have her untethering from
her mom, cutting her hair and 

1867
01:55:58,880 --> 01:56:04,160
trying to disassociate from her.
And you have Kante actually 

1868
01:56:04,160 --> 01:56:08,360
getting closer to his mom in 
this episode because he gets 

1869
01:56:08,360 --> 01:56:13,720
drunk and he's wondering if his 
mom feels badly or sorry for how

1870
01:56:13,720 --> 01:56:18,520
she treated him. 
And he suggests to Sante back at

1871
01:56:18,520 --> 01:56:21,600
the mansion that they go eat 
Chambon at the restaurant that 

1872
01:56:21,600 --> 01:56:25,080
he loves to eat at. 
And Sante unlocks this flashback

1873
01:56:25,080 --> 01:56:28,880
memory saying that they only ate
there so often because their mom

1874
01:56:28,880 --> 01:56:32,200
knew that was his favorite. 
That was Kante's favorite to 

1875
01:56:32,200 --> 01:56:35,400
eat. 
And it sends him like spiraling.

1876
01:56:35,400 --> 01:56:39,520
He's sobbing into Sang Pei's 
back in the middle of the night 

1877
01:56:39,520 --> 01:56:43,920
and I'm just like Oh my God. 
This is interesting to see how 

1878
01:56:44,640 --> 01:56:49,400
their dynamics with their moms 
play out and how they address 

1879
01:56:49,400 --> 01:56:50,960
it. 
Each character addresses it 

1880
01:56:50,960 --> 01:56:55,080
differently in the show. 
That scene is one of those that 

1881
01:56:55,400 --> 01:57:00,200
for me shows Kim Sokkun's talent
because it's such a, it's such a

1882
01:57:00,200 --> 01:57:03,200
quiet moment. 
You see it and and I'm just 

1883
01:57:03,200 --> 01:57:05,320
like, look at that, look at 
that. 

1884
01:57:05,560 --> 01:57:08,320
So that that was acting, good 
acting. 

1885
01:57:08,720 --> 01:57:14,080
It is acting. 
The other showcase that has 

1886
01:57:14,080 --> 01:57:18,560
stuck with me, and I remember 
this scene vividly is in episode

1887
01:57:18,600 --> 01:57:20,680
9. 
And I don't know if you remember

1888
01:57:20,960 --> 01:57:23,400
this scene. 
It's when they do, like a 

1889
01:57:23,400 --> 01:57:25,160
sleepaway thing. 
We just talked about this scene 

1890
01:57:25,160 --> 01:57:29,000
where he gives her flowers and 
they kiss for the first time. 

1891
01:57:29,000 --> 01:57:31,440
It's kind of like a pop kiss. 
But they end up back at the 

1892
01:57:31,440 --> 01:57:34,520
hospital. 
And Kante lied to his brother, 

1893
01:57:34,520 --> 01:57:37,080
to Sante about where he was 
overnight. 

1894
01:57:37,720 --> 01:57:40,160
Sante was worried sick. 
He was waiting up for him. 

1895
01:57:40,200 --> 01:57:44,800
And that's when Sante overnight 
draws that picture of them in 

1896
01:57:44,800 --> 01:57:47,280
the camper. 
And that foreshadows like the 

1897
01:57:47,280 --> 01:57:51,440
end of the show. 
But Sante has a breakdown in the

1898
01:57:51,440 --> 01:57:54,960
hospital. 
He reveals that he remembers 

1899
01:57:55,040 --> 01:57:58,840
Kante wishing him dead and 
almost letting him die. 

1900
01:58:00,560 --> 01:58:06,000
This scene is an emotional touch
point for me personally for the 

1901
01:58:06,000 --> 01:58:09,960
entire show because despite me 
remembering like little things 

1902
01:58:09,960 --> 01:58:14,120
here and there and scenes here 
and there and iconic things, the

1903
01:58:14,120 --> 01:58:17,480
safety pin and the butterfly 
method of her hugging and stuff.

1904
01:58:17,840 --> 01:58:22,720
No no no. 
This scene of Sante throwing 

1905
01:58:22,720 --> 01:58:26,760
water at him and calling him 
fake and Kante trying to 

1906
01:58:26,760 --> 01:58:28,640
apologize can't get the words 
out. 

1907
01:58:29,520 --> 01:58:35,840
Sante has completely locked him 
up because he's touched on what 

1908
01:58:35,840 --> 01:58:39,760
he is most ashamed of, what he's
feels most guilty of. 

1909
01:58:40,960 --> 01:58:43,840
And he repeats, oh, I wish Young
would just die. 

1910
01:58:43,840 --> 01:58:46,800
You said that Kant is breaking 
down in tears. 

1911
01:58:46,800 --> 01:58:50,200
Sante is a mess, crying, 
screaming. 

1912
01:58:50,200 --> 01:58:54,200
He wants his young dead through 
every corner of the hospital, 

1913
01:58:54,640 --> 01:58:56,520
and Kante is literally just on 
the floor. 

1914
01:58:57,000 --> 01:59:00,880
That was powerful. 
I remember that scene now and 

1915
01:59:00,960 --> 01:59:06,160
like if you cannot say Kim SU 
Hyun didn't act his socks off 

1916
01:59:06,240 --> 01:59:10,080
for that drama. 
If you watch that scene, wow, so

1917
01:59:10,080 --> 01:59:15,440
emotional jazz. 
And you know, just following on 

1918
01:59:15,440 --> 01:59:18,520
that, Kante is busy saying I'm 
sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. 

1919
01:59:18,520 --> 01:59:21,520
And then later when they're back
at the apartment, the roof 

1920
01:59:21,520 --> 01:59:27,600
apartment, Jerry's mom's place, 
and Kante comes back and Sante 

1921
01:59:27,640 --> 01:59:30,680
goes into his little zip up 
closet. 

1922
01:59:31,240 --> 01:59:36,440
And you know, so Kante is trying
to apologize and Sante makes him

1923
01:59:36,440 --> 01:59:38,560
say what it is he's apologizing 
for, right? 

1924
01:59:38,680 --> 01:59:42,200
He says, what are you sorry for?
And I think that's that's such 

1925
01:59:42,200 --> 01:59:47,000
an important moment for them 
both because there are many 

1926
01:59:47,000 --> 01:59:50,440
times that Kante has said, I'm 
sorry, I'm sorry, you know, 

1927
01:59:50,440 --> 01:59:53,080
usually to cover up some lie or 
whatever it is. 

1928
01:59:53,080 --> 01:59:57,360
But in this moment, because it's
it's really just that source of 

1929
01:59:57,360 --> 01:59:59,480
their pain. 
It's like, no, you need to 

1930
01:59:59,960 --> 02:00:03,120
actually say out loud what it is
you're sorry for. 

1931
02:00:03,120 --> 02:00:08,120
And he then I think that also 
frees or unburdens Kante to some

1932
02:00:08,120 --> 02:00:11,560
degree because he's like. 
I'm sorry for leaving you or 

1933
02:00:11,560 --> 02:00:14,080
running away. 
I'm sorry for saying I wish you 

1934
02:00:14,080 --> 02:00:15,880
would die. 
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I wish, 

1935
02:00:15,920 --> 02:00:19,160
I'm sorry, I said. 
I wish I had a normal brother 

1936
02:00:19,160 --> 02:00:23,400
and and and. 
Yeah, all of it. 10 out of 10. 

1937
02:00:23,760 --> 02:00:28,000
So powerful. 
So I think I liked Munyong's 

1938
02:00:28,000 --> 02:00:30,880
sentiment when she says it's 
ridiculous. 

1939
02:00:30,880 --> 02:00:34,040
Are all parents automatically 
forgiven for the bad things they

1940
02:00:34,040 --> 02:00:37,440
did before they die? 
And I think that's pretty 

1941
02:00:37,440 --> 02:00:40,480
accurate because on people's 
deathbeds, they want 

1942
02:00:40,480 --> 02:00:43,400
forgiveness. 
They want to bury the hatchet. 

1943
02:00:43,840 --> 02:00:46,840
And she's like, fuck all that. 
We're not going to do that. 

1944
02:00:49,040 --> 02:00:51,760
Yeah, it's like just that 
redemption, the redemption arc, 

1945
02:00:51,760 --> 02:00:53,480
right? 
And it's like, you haven't 

1946
02:00:53,480 --> 02:00:54,080
actually. 
For what? 

1947
02:00:54,400 --> 02:00:54,880
Earned it. 
Yeah. 

1948
02:00:55,800 --> 02:00:58,760
Yeah, exactly. 
So interesting, Interesting 

1949
02:00:58,760 --> 02:01:02,040
thoughts. 
I think that we've been here 

1950
02:01:02,040 --> 02:01:05,280
long enough and we've litigated 
a lot of the show. 

1951
02:01:05,800 --> 02:01:08,880
I don't know if you guys had 
anything you guys wanted to add.

1952
02:01:09,600 --> 02:01:14,840
I really enjoyed this trip down 
memory lane and I think it just 

1953
02:01:14,960 --> 02:01:18,800
we and I ended up having so much
more to say than I thought 

1954
02:01:18,840 --> 02:01:22,480
coming in. 
So just credit to you for 

1955
02:01:22,920 --> 02:01:25,760
setting us up for, for this, 
this conversation. 

1956
02:01:25,760 --> 02:01:29,640
And yeah, I mean, I, I now am 
curious. 

1957
02:01:29,640 --> 02:01:33,880
I want to go back and see Ko 
Munyong's smoking scenes. 

1958
02:01:33,880 --> 02:01:37,120
I want to go back and see what 
what happened with the dad at 

1959
02:01:37,120 --> 02:01:39,920
the end since I didn't get to do
to wrap that up. 

1960
02:01:39,920 --> 02:01:43,160
But yeah, so many things that 
I'm like, huh, OK, I'm thinking 

1961
02:01:43,160 --> 02:01:44,800
a little differently about that,
so. 

1962
02:01:45,200 --> 02:01:49,640
Yeah, like there's a lot of K 
drama isms in it that I do, and 

1963
02:01:49,640 --> 02:01:53,800
I don't mind like the deer 
interrupting them every time 

1964
02:01:53,880 --> 02:01:55,880
they like want to have an 
intimate moment. 

1965
02:01:56,680 --> 02:01:59,640
Kim SU Kyon having his shirt off
in the 1st 12 minutes of the 

1966
02:01:59,640 --> 02:02:05,200
show. 
So there's some things. 

1967
02:02:06,280 --> 02:02:08,320
So thank you guys for coming on 
here. 

1968
02:02:08,320 --> 02:02:11,760
Thank you guys for for taking 
the time out and doing this deep

1969
02:02:11,760 --> 02:02:14,880
dive with me. 
Before we get out of here, where

1970
02:02:14,880 --> 02:02:19,480
can we find you guys online? 
We are on Instagram at Africans 

1971
02:02:19,480 --> 02:02:25,480
Soulmates, on X at Afrosoulmates
and then for the podcast itself 

1972
02:02:25,960 --> 02:02:29,360
you can find us on Google 
Podcast, Spotify and Apple. 

1973
02:02:30,000 --> 02:02:34,120
And we love the DMS, that's 
where you find us the most. 

1974
02:02:34,120 --> 02:02:38,880
So if you get on our Instagram, 
we love getting into the Kiki of

1975
02:02:38,920 --> 02:02:44,040
all the dramas that everyone. 
And I love the Insta takeovers. 

1976
02:02:44,040 --> 02:02:46,480
They do Instagram takeovers 
every now and then and it's so 

1977
02:02:46,480 --> 02:02:48,600
much fun. 
And that's it. 

1978
02:02:48,880 --> 02:02:51,840
I'm Jessica and this has been 
the Tiba K Rambles podcast. 

1979
02:02:52,160 --> 02:02:53,040
Thank you, Jess.