I'm Jessica and this is Deborah. Kerr Rambles were a couple of
friends review Korean dramas and I'm excited because I have for
my guest today, I have gray. Strung, how are you Grace?
How you doing? Very good.
Thank you for having me. Yeah, absolutely.
So Grace. You are a comedian.
You're a writer. And you also have your own
kdrama podcast called kdrama school.
Which I love, I usually go there for a different opinion because
you have such a different view on things and I like remember
distinctly listening to your the glory episode and thinking wow,
I didn't think about any of this.
So this is wildly different and it made me rethink the drama a
little bit. So for those who, Who don't know
you and don't know how you got started in kdrama really quick.
How did you get into kdramas and do you care to see how long?
Cause I know it's been a long time but you get to say like
what was your first kdrama or Sure.
Yeah. I mean, the question of how a
person gets into kdramas. I think is usually for
non-koreans, because for me, it's like, there's no such thing
as a kdrama for me. There's just tv.you because I
was born and raised in Korea. So how did I get into Korean TV
is just I would turn on the TV if that makes sense.
Right. Because that's just that was the
media that I was exposed to. From the moment that I saw a
screen, so that is how I got into it.
I suppose, I mean my first exposure to Korean television
that I have in my memory is like childhood programs like there
was a variety show, like it's like similar to like PBS's, you
know, Sesame Street or something, it's called Bull and
that used to be on in the early 90s.
So my parents would just leave that on.
And I would watch that as a kid. So, yeah.
For me, it's there's no like, intro to kdramas or the Korean
world. It's just I'm Korean, you know?
So that's the media that I grew up consuming.
Yeah. This is wildly different from
pretty much every guess that I've had on the show even if
they come from Asian descent, they're like, I got into kdramas
at this age. I grew up here and even though,
you know, I was exposed to it, I didn't get into it until this.
This time in my life and this was my first kdrama and so on
and so forth. So I really like that you, it's
just part of your DNA. It's just how you grew up.
I have a similar experience with the whale has because I grew up
watching, Hispanic novellas on TV and they were you know, wild
and they have their own tropes and they have their own like
actors. And you see often and it's again
like a very comprable to kdramas, it is.
It is very comparable. Absolutely.
So some housekeeping before we get Started.
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Grace, Alana Lorna Li and Sammy you guys are great.
Love you guys. And without further Ado, we're
going to get started on a review of go back, couple and I'll get
started by reading the Asian Wiki.
Synopsis it reads Trayvon though and Mountain Dew are both 38
years old and married couple try bundle has been burdened with
being the breadwinner and Majin do is a housewife with low
self-esteem. Even though they loved each
other when they married, they now hate each other.
They both regret marrying at such a young age.
Each the couple travel through time and find themselves as 20
year old University students when they met for the first
time. So this aired originally from
October to November 2017, it's only 12 episodes long.
It was directed by Xavier Moon and he's directed 18 Again from
2020, which is probably a very good comparable for the show and
he recently, I guess later this year, he'll come out with you
did will die soon which star is Puck Saddam and sewing good.
Look, it was written by a coin, hey Jew, and she's written High
by Mama, which is also a comparable to the show and the
sound of your heart from 2016 to 2017 which starred econ zoo and
Dunkleman. So the cast, I hope you can help
me out. Like, just let me know where
you've seen these two before, because I have like, where I've
seen them, but this is like the first time that I've really kind
of sunk my teeth into. Something that they've done, it
feels like so the show Stars. Done that up as Majin do and
she's been in like sell your haunted house.
Oh my baby VIP, the last Empress one more, happy ending, fated to
love you which is like the big one.
I think everyone knows her from where.
Have you seen something that before?
Yeah, I mean where have I seen checking that that questions
also similar to like, how did you get into kdramas and that
she was just part of the world, China is known, mostly in
originally, as a KPop star, she was a soloist and she was hugely
successful when she first began. I think she was starting in like
the year 2000 and she came out with this hit song.
Song at the time. I think it's like sweet dream or
sweet something but it's like this really like cutesy bubbly
poppy song. I remember the music video with
her wearing like pajamas and like like a shower cap.
I think we should like, I don't know, like pigtails or it was
just very like very, you know, sweet sugary girly.
Innocent like that was her image.
And that's how she was branded and packaged.
But Chang, that up was so busy. I remember her it was like, I
think 2000 or 2001, but she came out with like two, dramas that
one year. She had a she had two solo likes
two singles that were out and she was like extremely busy in
addition to that. She was also, you know, guest
starring in a bunch of, you know, comedy variety shows.
I mean, her schedule was insane. Oh, She was also booking, a lot
of commercials right TV commercials and Curry, they call
it a CF. And so she was in a bunch of
commercials like like like big ones, like like beer commercials
this and that, and she was raking in a lot of money and she
was super busy. But she was also and she talked
about this much later, but she was also having like mental
breakdowns because she, they would not let her sleep.
Her managers and her agents, like none of them were let it
let her sleep. Like she was a Workhorse and You
was completely exploited as this 19. 20 year-old young woman,
just starting out in the business.
Because, I mean, when you look at her now Chung that is like
she's like in her 40s now, but she has these big eyes.
She has this like really petite face like round cheeks.
And she so youthful looking and cute and adorable.
It's like a very unique. Look, so like the Korean media
could not get enough of her. I mean, they really worked.
Her up. And so she talked about this on
a variety show, that's no longer on air, but it's called happy
together. It was on air from like 2000.
I think, like, 2001 or 1999 it was on, it was on for like,
almost 20 years. And she was a guest on that show
talking about how her managers would just like, not let her
sleep for five days straight. This is because she had to work.
Yeah, and so she would just like have these fits and throw things
out of her. Van and she would have no memory
of it of any of that behavior, because she's sleep deprivation,
right state of mind. Yeah, extreme sleep deprivation
exhaustion depression anxiety to this day tongue.
That us suffers from like panic disorders and anxiety disorders
that stem from the work that she's done.
So when I think of 10 data, I think of a, she is immensely
talented. I mean she is like as a singer
as an actress as a A performer. She is super professional.
She Nails it every time, every time I see her on a show, I'm
just like Blown Away by her performance.
She's very good, and she's very versatile.
And she has excellent comedic timing and she has excellent
dramatic performance. It's difficult to do those two
things in equal measure, but she's somebody who can.
And at the same time, it's like given her talents, you know,
it's like the industry. I mean, she's definitely a
victim of the Street and how inhumane and cruel?
It can be. And so for me, it's like, okay,
on the one hand, she's very talented.
And she has this very impressive like repertoire when it comes to
her filmography and her solo albums, and her career, not just
in Korea, but also in Japan and China, she's huge.
I mean, that's mostly written that.
I made her money. She makes it in China where they
love her so she's done also Chinese films.
All right, so she's like this, Mega how you International Star
but she's also a Cautionary tale.
When it comes to self care, and boundaries and self-protection.
And voicing yourself when it comes to your needs, like
resting, like eating like saying no.
All right, so, so for me, it's like I have a very complicated
emotional response when it comes to China data, but for someone
would June, he is like one of the funniest contemporary
kdrama. Actors right now, I would say
he's not a comedian. And he doesn't come from a
comedy background. I think he's unique in the, he
doesn't even come from like, a singing background.
I don't think he's a KPop star, right?
Like, he's not a threat, like, a lot of these know, he's just an
actor, but he's such a great performer in every show that
I've seen him in. He's just so funny, but at the
same time he's also somebody who can like handle the weight of a
dramatic performance, although probably not as not as seasoned
as tongue that up. I think tongue that is better
with their dramatic roles. But someone would June is very,
very funny and this writer, she's written a sitcom, I mean
she's written sitcoms like writing like sound of your
heart. That's a sitcom.
And because of the writers, Affinity with comedy, I think
that is why she cast these two actors tongue that insulin hojun
because they're both so good with comedy.
Yeah. So like you said something to
doin plays to bundle and like, I hadn't basically never seen him
because I only watched him in reply 1994 and hadn't seen much
of his other work. So this was my first basically
experience watching him in a cage drama and I was like he's
very good because, you know, you come in with like this notion of
this character, because he's not very likable at all.
And you leave in your like, oh maybe I was like dead wrong
about the whole situation and that's really tough for.
I think an actor to do when you're rooting for.
Somebody else you rooting for another character and he's out
here, kind of changing your mind.
So I really liked both of them. I love tongue that and I wish
it. I saw her more stuff.
The last time I saw her was in the last Empress, which was, I
had no idea, was a crazy wide had no idea was a mock tongue
drama. Yeah, it's a.
It's like it's like the Pinnacle of mcjunkin woman.
The woman who wrote it has written many, many mugs.
And she's very famous for writing about Jung.
So yeah, that's I had such a crazy one.
I didn't know who was behind the lens.
I didn't know who wrote it. I just started it, like, on a
whim and most complete as a crazy.
Why I didn't even, I couldn't even finish.
It was very long, that's a fief, it's very stressful, it's
stressful stressed, you're right.
Yeah, so that's my experience with the the two leads and we do
have a giant ensemble cast year and we can get into the maybe
later. But what did you think?
I think it's been a while since you've watched the show, but
what are your three General? Thoughts on go back couple.
I mean, I I was mostly watching it because I grew up as a fan of
tongue that, uh, so that was the draw from me.
So when would you in was just like an added bonus.
I had seen someone who June in the light in your eyes as well,
which is very small drama with Kim Hedges.
Which, you know, who's like a veteran actress and I had also
seen him with what's her face with some Geo in.
Another drama I think. It's like, was it love or
something where he plays like this, you know, like it's like
oh is he the father of my baby like that kind of thing, right?
But he's in he's done work. But yeah.
You're right. Like reply 1994 is the Big
Splash for him but yeah I mean the other draw for me also lets
usually the Stars, the stars are usually the draw for most
kdramas I mean for any film or TV Evie.
It's like, you go and watch it because you want to go and see
like, Charlize, Theron you want to go and see Hugh Jackman,
right? So you're going to see these
movies so it's like the same for any any media but also what's
his face? That tall, sexy guy, danke
young? Yeah thank you.
So chunky. Oh was another draw for me?
Because I had only seen him like Once prior in an earlier show
that came out like, um, like in 2014, I think it's called,
that's okay, it's love. Yes.
And he played a very small cameo role in that show, and that's a
show I've watched many times, and I was like, who is this
tall? Sexy, dude, like, what's his
deal? And I think that was sort of
that Cameo appearance was like his like foray into Korean toy
because he's a method actor. Right?
You comes as a model so he's not like a trained actor.
He's just a pretty face on this show.
He was also just playing this model pretty face, but I was
like, oh, he has my attention like he's pretty cute.
Do I think he's a good of an actor?
No, he's not. And I could see, I could see
that like there's potential there like, oh like I could see
that this this is a star in the making kind of thing so he was
also a big draw for me. And You're right.
Like, you know so one which is character is a dick.
He's so like selfish and he's so, you know, just yeah, like a
selfish, dude. But so is.
So is tongue that has character? I mean, Ginger was also a
selfish character, like, they are both flawed characters, but
the reason why I think you, and I feel more for children because
we're women. Yeah.
Like, that's why and this is a show that was also written by a
woman and It's dealing with a lot of women's issues.
So that's why, you know, we feel a little bit more connected to
change of character than Panda, but I was definitely rooting for
chinju to get with chunky. Oh, oh my God.
Whole time the whole time. I was like no, leave punto.
Go with the tall sexy Rich. Dude, make a better life for
yourself. You have you get it second
chance to start over? No no no no no stop repeating
the same mistakes. Right.
So for me, it was like if there's a message here, it's not
that you should go do the same shit over again.
It's like know, when you get a renewal, when you get a second
opportunity in life, do the crazier Choice, make the crazier
decision, right? Go.
And yes, you deserve that really tall drink of iced tea.
Go get him. You know right.
Leave behind chip on door. Yeah I think that was my what
those are. My questions.
I was going to ask you whose side were you on in the
relationship? And yes.
Absolutely. I was on a cutting that aside
because like genocide because we're women, but also her story
was way better explained and told, and you just feel so
empathetic and sympathetic toward her plate.
Her kind of doing the bulk of the raising of their child and,
you know, to then do is like, not.
Present at all. And yeah, he's hustling out here
trying to make money and put food on the table.
But like, that's a very patriarchal like responsibility
that he's put on himself and, you know, her character not to
get too much into spoilers but her character it places so much
emphasis on him being present on him, just supporting her by her
by him just showing up right. Like bare minimum just be there
and He's like surprised he's he has like a revelatory experience
toward the later half of the show where he's like, oh yeah,
like I was never there. And it's like that's like bare
minimum. Just be there and that was very
frustrating. It's very like, yes, finally you
got there homey but like it's very frustrating to watch when
you're rooting for, you know, Majin do like her character and
I wasn't like on his side so that like that answers, that
question. The second question, would you
also like sort of answered was, who did you want her to end up
with and why? And like, absolutely, I agree.
With you that you want her to end up with the second male
lead. Because not only is he like a
better a safe bet on in the past, he's a safe bet in the
future. She knows how his life turns
out. It's a great life.
He's like a billionaire or something like that, he's
extremely successful, still single in the present day or
whatever. And you know, why would she not
try something different when she knows how the relationship could
turn out. Like, she knows the worst side.
Of turbine do and she still chooses to sort of go with that.
So it is quite a journey that they go on and it's only 12
episodes. But did you have any thoughts on
the OSD? I thought it was just like a
little bit like one song stood out and that was it.
But I don't know if you if you have to listen to the OST since
watching. Go ahead.
Go back couple. Yeah, I mean I haven't seen the
show from beginning to end like since it came out like six years
ago, but I did watch like the first couple of episodes just to
refreshen. And what I noticed is that when
they do go back, like they're listening to these early Kpop
songs that came out in the late 90s.
And so I remember recognizing that, right?
Like, oh yeah, like you know, so that's its.
So it's kind of Of like an intertext Force 10 June and that
you know, in reply 1994. There's the same thing like
they're playing these 90s songs and there are these like 90s
Fashions 90s 90s trends when it comes to like pagers and cell
phones. And you know, right?
So there was a little, there was a like nostalgic retro sort of,
yes, production design that was taking place that was familiar
to me. Me.
And what to me, what that means is, oh, like the Millennials who
grew up from this era are now. Yes.
Like at this stage, like their parents.
They're married couples their disgruntled married couples.
Their couples that are thinking about marriage, divorce, and
divorce. And South Korea's very, very
high. It's like, at least half of
marriages end up in divorce and, you know, like, I think the show
It's not really a matter for me when it comes to like, oh, am I
on like the woman side? Or the man side.
Like it's not so much about that, what it speaks to is a
bigger sociological thing, it's more than that.
It's actually a socio-cultural thing in the sense that prior to
prior to this generation, like my generation, the millennial
generation divorce, among Korean couples was completely imbued
with shame. It was Speakable to get a
divorce even when I was a kid, like every every family around
me, they should have been divorced.
My parents also should have been divorced, get a divorce.
You'll be happier but know they'll grit their teeth,
they'll sleep in separate beds, they'll ignore one another for
years at a time and wait till the kids graduate from high
school for what? Because they are too ashamed to
get divorced. Because people might Badmouth
them but this is a different generation.
It's where divorce is very much, an acceptable part.
It's in fact, the norm and so this couple is at this breaking
point. They're like well I mean we
gotta think about divorce but they also are flawed and that
they have expectations of each other which shouldn't exist in a
loving relationship of any kind to maintain an expectation of
another means you Will be disappointed, right?
It means you will end up getting a divorce.
It means you will not be living a life.
That is your own because you're constantly.
You know, you're, you're basically turning this person
and this person's disappointments into your world.
You're orbiting around this guy and all of his, you know,
shortcomings. That's what your life becomes.
It's you giving up your power and that's what the couple are
doing. You know, like jinju's mad that
that Don't forgot their anniversary, puddle, can't even
think about the anniversary because he has this asshole of a
client who exploits and abuses him.
And not only that but the client's wife exploits and
abuses him. I mean, he is really entangled
in their marital mess to make a living because his job is so
difficult. And when we go back in time, we
realize becoming a pharmaceutical salesperson
wasn't his dream career. He was obsessed with Cinema.
It was movies that he loved that was his passion.
So I think the going back is not just a journey and their
romantic thing. I think that is very much like a
secondary thing. I think it's going back and
reclaiming who they are as a self as an identity.
Who am I? What were my Joy's?
What were my passions? What were my dreams?
Who was I, when I didn't have the responsibility of other
people's needs and I think that reclaiming is perhaps What's the
lesson here? You know, it's not even about
the marriage and the love. It's really about, you know,
chinju going back and reclaiming who she is.
It's about Pondo going back and reclaiming who he is, and it's
saying, unless you are hole in your individuality, you will
never ever be satisfied because you're always going to be trying
to fill that Gap with somebody else and that's just not how it
works. Yeah, so I agree with you like
to the max because what I found most compelling about the show
wasn't necessarily their relationship and how the turns
out it's them going back and rediscovering themselves
rediscovering like the joy of life and of the Innocence of
like not having anything to do not having any responsibilities.
Like what do you do to fill up your days?
When there are no bills when there are no responsibilities,
what is your like default and they had to get back to that
and, you know, going back to the the you thing.
I love when people sort of revert or have these
Supernatural things happen to them and then they have to
reassess their lives and reassess what they used to do,
what they used to like you visit, I'm of hopes and promise
and dreaming and potential. And like you said, like his
original dream, was to be Korea's top movie director and
win Awards, in a claim and somewhere along the way that
just got lost it fell by the wayside.
And there is something really enticing about just
rediscovering. That joy and that innocence and
youth, and just the energy of when you didn't have all of
these responsibilities, when life didn't beat you down.
It's very much. Like I like the movie Hook, for
example, does the same thing where he's like has to
re-examine and get back to his Youth and reconnect with his
inner child, and it's very much. The same thing for the show, for
both of them and they go through slightly different Journeys and
it's The emotional to watch that and it's emotional to see them
reconnect with each other as well through the course of the
show. The last thing I want to talk
about before we cut for just a brief spoiler section is what do
you think the show is saying about motherhood and Parenthood?
Because I feel like that was a huge theme throughout the show
because you know her relationship with her mother is
so integral to like who she is as a person and she didn't
realize it until her mother. Was was gone and out of her life
and her being a mother herself. And then going back to her 20
year, old self like that, causes some craziness in her inner
psyche, and she's very distraught and upset cries every
night because she misses her child, she wants to be there.
She doesn't know how to get back.
They don't know how to break the magic, the spell.
So I'm wondering how you felt about the portrayal of
motherhood in the Show versus father had especially because
tribe on do like Doesn't really like it takes a few episodes for
a hint. To remember.
Oh, yeah. We have a child.
And you know, what are we gonna do about that?
Because even if I want to stay and make some changes here, I'm
still have a child's, you know, I have a future with a child.
Yeah, right. Yeah, I thought that was really
weird. The fact that like Pondo just
forgot that he's a dad. It just that didn't seem
convincing to me or maybe it is. I don't know.
Maybe he's a she Eddie dad, who knows?
I really, I don't know. The whole thing would change you
like that was weird. Honestly, I was like, this is a
little weird just like, this is too much crying for me.
Child. That has probably exhausted.
This looks really tiresome. Yeah, yeah.
I mean it for me like the only way to abstract that into a
relevant kind of sphere. For me personally is just to
think of it as like, okay, perhaps this is like an inner
child work then Perhaps this is you know because like punto has
like a very specific point. It's like oh my dream was to be
a filmmaker I love Cinema. It's like it's very specific but
time that I her character, I don't remember her having that
doesn't. What was it's like.
Yeah, well Wisher. So your dream was to be a mom.
I mean, I guess there's nothing wrong with that.
There is some women, their dream is to be a mother and they want
to be a caretaker and they want to put all of their life and
energy and focus on to that and that is noble and awesome.
Good. Are you if that is the case and
perhaps that is the truth for this woman, but I was like,
okay. But is that, is that really
truly it and if it is ok, but I can't relate to that because I'm
not a mother, right? So I just think of it as like,
okay. Maybe this is her doing like
inner child, work to perhaps recover from a trauma because
like when she's in her present day her mother's not there, her
mother is passed away. She's missing But in this like
redo she's with her mother but she's also well now missing the
fact that she herself is a mother, right?
So I don't know like whatever that Journey means.
Like, I'm not sure what it is when the represent the
representation of motherhood. I don't even know.
But what I do know is that like when it comes to Korean media.
I mean, this whole thing of like motherhood and moms this like,
sort of Maria, the st. Mary kind of figure At the the
sacrificial mother to make you cry your eyes out.
So you barf that is definitely a thing that Korean television
writers know how to use to manipulate your emotions into
crying and to turning the show into a melodrama, right?
So for me, it's like that is just used as the melodramatic
tool in this romantic comedy, right?
Right. I feel like that was definitely.
Or of the melodrama and it wasn't necessarily like tongue
that out with her kid. It was her relationship with her
mom who is played by the Fantastic.
Kimmy kyung, I love her. She's one of the greatest and
most who ever graced our key drama screens.
I love her and you know I feel like that's the best part of the
show. Like the look, The love story
story so to speak between her and her mom.
And Connecting and her just being so appreciative and
grateful of her mom and her mom's like, what's gotten into
you? So sorry, that was my phone.
So anyway, my my instinct is to say that like, yes, absolutely.
In the Baseline. The sanctity of like motherhood
is ever present in the show and it is like part of so many
kdramas and so many writers use it to emotional effect and it's
not any different in the show. But I don't know, I just felt
like it was really something to behold her and her relationship
with her mom, especially knowing like what the future holds for
them, and her trying to change it and she can't, she feels
helpless. So it's a lot.
What would you read the show out of five, told you bottles, if he
five being, like, the best and like, zero being terrible, I
mean do I have to you don't have to don't have to.
Yeah I'm just I'm just going to say no to that because I just I
don't like reading shows with stars and stuff.
All right just to me it's like yeah the show the show is
Meaningful to me in some aspects and in other aspects it's not as
much but yeah definitely meaningful.
Okay sure yeah I found that it was really light-hearted at
times and obviously a lot of melodrama Emma times and the
motherhood stuff was really touching for me and I would
probably braid it maybe like four out of five so two bottles
cause I just like really enjoyed it and it was perfectly paced.
I thought like it probably could have been even shorter than 12
episodes but I thought 12 episodes just like proper were
done. We're leaving so episode count
was good pacing and all that. And yeah, so I think we're going
to just jump into spoilers really fast.
So stick around, we'll be right back.
Hey, you want to come in? Okay, we're on the other side of
spoilers guys. So anything goes and I know that
we've talked a lot about, just the journeys of the characters
already and what they've gone through, but I do like that the
show, let's talk about, I guess a little bit about what's that
live? What's the difference between
love and familiarity? Because I feel like I wasn't
quite clear on them getting back.
Together. Was that because they actually
loved each other was did that just because they had been
together for almost 20 years. And so they were familiar with
each other and they sort of had an action plan of what they were
going to change and how they were going to love each other
differently. Now, did you have any thoughts
on that? Wait, what was the question?
Do you think it was either? They got to back together
because of Love or because they were all right familiarity?
Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
Love and familiarity. I mean, You know, I mean, is
there I guess there is a difference, it's a very minut
difference, but in Korean, there's this word called Chung.
It's I guess it's pronounced the same as my last name, but the
sign Oak Korean character is written differently.
It stems from the Chinese character Chun, so the Chinese
and the Japanese and the Koreans know what this This word means
and it means it's similar to love and familiarity it
basically means a feeling or an affection that develops between
people over a course of time. So time plays a very big role in
developing Chung with somebody right so whereas like I mean
Korean parents from a different generate like an older
generation they Never Go Around saying I love my wife.
I love my husband. I'm they wouldn't do that.
Unless perhaps, you know, they were a romantic couple if that's
the case. Okay great.
But it was more that was more of an exception rather than the
rule. The rule was, you know they
would say a tongue thrust chandragupta or chandrasana,
which means like damn it. Now I'm attached to you damn it
now now my heart. Now my heart is attached to
yours, you know so it's like mmm.
That comes with time. It's like it's you know even
even when like you know when you watch these like reality shows
like you know like on on MTV or whatever like they would like be
in one house like the real world like they would be in one house
right? And they would just like he
didn't fight and drink and sleep and then at the end they would
all cry cuz they have to go home and there we go.
But let's stay in. Touch, that's Chong, right?
They're never going to stay in touch all the hate each other.
They're not in touch anymore. Trust me, they're not.
They just ended up like it's this Collective Union that ends
up happening. When you're just around one
another, you just get attached. You just start to feel like an
affinity and an affection in a kinship and it's like, oh, so
and so feels like my mother in a way, he feels like a father and
they remind me of my brother. They remind me of my best
friend. They remind me of a guy.
I dated, they remind me of a woman, I know.
And it just becomes like this little mixture, like a pool of
affection and familiarity that develops and is Is that love?
Perhaps, in some shallow sense? It is.
But is it love? Love?
Love in the sense that like with a capital.
L like all acceptance unconditionally.
No, it's not right? It's not.
So yeah, I would say that with these people, perhaps it's
closer to Chun more than just pure romantic love, right?
And it's also Duty, it's a duty, it's a parental duty to return
to their baby. I think that is Motivating their
togetherness and it's like if that is the agreement then I
don't think there's anything wrong with that.
Go ahead and honor that agreement.
It's okay. You know, like I mean, not every
relationship needs to be based in love.
It doesn't, you know, and for them, I think it's more based in
Duty for the family, right? Yeah.
Right. I feel like the show is
definitely all about upholding these values, right?
Where it's like, The family unit comes above everything else and
we need to preserve the family and it reads like it goes back
to that. What you were talking about
before the spoiler break about how the previous generation
would just grit their teeth and and stick it out just to never
get a divorce. Not just to avoid the stigma
around getting a divorce but also to keep this shit together,
you know, like we need to really rally here because we've
committed to doing this thing and like whether it's raising a
family or just we made a Thomas and like you're stuck with me.
Whatever the case may be, that feels like that's also in the
DNA of them getting back together.
At the end of the show where I found completely like, in some
ways. I was like, wow, thank God.
And then other ways I was like well why she could have went
with the second male lead. Who yes, he wasn't fleshed-out.
Yes. He had typical mommy and daddy
issues at home but like it could have been different.
You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah.
And I think, I think, I mean, there are two things that come
to me. I think the reason why it had to
end that way is because of jinju's maternal commitment,
that's yes. And to honor her maternal
commitment, she has to go back and she has to be with Pandora
because otherwise it's, it means to lose her baby, right?
And for her, that was her, that was her, you know, her Destiny,
her fate that she wanted to honor that.
The other thing that comes to me now is that That this show aired
on kbs2, which is Korean broadcasting systems, which is a
public broadcaster in South Korea, public broadcasting means
that the show that airs on that channel must serve the public
meaning. It has to be informative and
have moral standards. It has to honor family values
and that's the reason why this show has the ending that it
does. If it was on TV anime TV series,
E. Oh my God, it be way fucking
crazy. Right way crazier?
It would be like over-the-top hallucinatory.
I mean, jinju probably would have ended up with Jung Joo,
Young's character, but because this is on a Family Channel,
like, a public broadcasting station, and it's oriented
towards the family. It upholds values, like don't
get a divorce, you know, commit to each other.
You can get through this day with the baby and that's also
tied to South Korea's national issues like the giant decline.
In birth rates, the giant, you know, Spike and divorces.
And all of it is tied to the government's needs for their
demographics. Yeah, this came out in 2017, but
the statistics has only gotten worse in that department, for,
for Korea and the birthrate. And it's, I mean, the makes a
lot of sense that, because of aired on kbs2, it was a little
bit more. Tame, I guess in terms of
Storytelling and in terms of how this thing ended because she
could have gone with Jung kyung. And like, they had really great
moments together. I don't know if you remember
some of these but like he takes her home in a taxi ride because
she mistakes his car for a taxi and she like shakily like gives
him a credit card to pay its 1999.
There are no credit card machine so he just looks at it and gives
it back to her and takes her home like no.
Since asked, she had just reject him because he's quote, unquote
smelled like sweat and he just like takes her home silently and
like that's it. He's very like gives her what
she needs. Whether it's space, whether it's
just a ride home and he saves her on this like downhill slope,
because she's falling, and it's very, like kdrama moment.
Yes, it's very Tropi. Yes, we saw it from 50 different
angles but you know, that sort of thing.
Was built into the second male lead relationship and it wasn't
until the latter episodes that you know bundle started coming
back into the the frame here and he like ditched his first love
who he tried to get with and was like trying to get back into her
good graces. And yeah a lot of the you know
things that bundle actually does for her are things that he had
done before. You know, he got her pads at the
grocery store and he got her Menstrual cramp medication
because she had her period and she knew that she had really bad
cramps. And he like massage her back and
like this, these kind of motions that are not new to the
relationship, they might even be habits at this point and he's
just, like doing this for her and it sort of bridges, their
relationship more, especially when you know, she's trying to
think through, like, do I need to go pursue the second male
lead? Or should I just, it's kind of a
mother really Mother's relationship, motherly
relationship with him. It's not very romantic at all.
So, this sort of thing, it was interesting to me to see how,
like, almost like the writer was affected, like, halfway through
the show, they were like, yo, you gotta back it off because
the second male leaves looking too good.
And she needs to get back with her husband.
So, it was like, almost like a 180, they just stopped.
She just stopped writing stuff about, you know, Donkey, Kong's
character. And Just went full send on the
husband's character, so yeah, I don't know.
I think that set up was just made from the beginning.
I mean, like, I didn't turn out go back a couple thinking that
they were not going to be together.
It's like that's a very obvious thing.
It's like, well, they're the lead right there breaking up at.
They are going to be back together like that's a given but
I mean, I thought it was interesting how jinju says, I
don't want to date you. You because you smell bad.
And to me, that's like very, very telling of the fact that
they will never end up together, because I mean, pheromones is a
big part of Chemistry Between people.
And if you, if you're not attracted to somebody, you will
never ever be attracted to that person.
There's no lying about it. And yeah, like was not even get
a lot more romantic towards chinju by meeting all of her,
maybe a female fantasies in a way.
Yeah. Way better than Pando in a lot.
Ways. But it's like, I mean she's in
a, you know, a young college girls body but she's an Optima.
Yeah, she's a Middle East woman and middle-aged.
Women don't give a crap about romantic, blah, blah, blahs.
They really don't she really comforting.
Mmm, they want comfort, and pandal knows what Comforts her
like a massage, like going out and running an errand.
That's what she wants and needs at this point.
So it's like, the whole, like fatalism Awesome theme is very
big in there. It's like if it's not fated to
be it will never ever be no matter how good the package
looks. That's.
Yeah. All over kdrama.
But yeah, absolutely. And then show, I think what
really didn't sell me on. Panda was like, he always put
her down and he was always like, oh yeah, you're not pretty.
Oh yeah, you don't look good in that.
Why are you wearing that? You're an Optima kept calling
her ahjumma and it's like, These things are not like she
obviously feels very low self-esteem, like the like the
synopsis said and he's not helping her at all.
Trying to overcome that or Foster some sort of self-esteem,
make her feel good, make her feel loved or appreciated.
And the May Queen competition that she competes in she didn't
originally but now that she's back in 1999, she decides to
compete in the May Queen competition.
And all the guys are swooning and are like pain though is
mesmerized by her on the stage. But again before that just
before that he was belittling her he all over the show.
It seems like he wants to win over her in some way, put her in
her place and it was so disheartening to see her to see
him burst her bubble time and time again.
So that was like I mean that's an interesting observation
because Was like for me again again, just going back to just
me being like, culturally Korean.
I mean, I'm Korean American but I'm culturally Korean as well.
And it's just like being like roasty and ribbing is a bit of a
love language among Koreans like, interesting.
I mean, I'm a, I'm a comic now. So I'm definitely with my tribe.
Like we're always putting one another down with love and all
of it are there all jokes, but we can be vicious and I mean
when my comedian friends rib me and Rose to me, I mean I find it
so funny like and I feel so loved and seen by them when they
when they call me out on stuff or you know like make fun of me
like and rip me a new one. Like there's I get no better
Greater Joy than when my closest friends do that to me and it's
like, yeah, it's problematic in a sense because, you know,
abusive Edwards, do end up taking a toll, but in another
sense it's like a habitual thing that Korean especially Korean
couples. Do to one another thinking and
believing that that is love that.
That's a love language and I think a lot of couples
especially when they're older they have that sort of routine
with each other. And I kind of noticed how you
brought up the word, self-esteem multiple times on this
recording. Whereas I For once, wondered
about her self-esteem at all. Mmm.
And in the case with jinju, I think she had to go back and
confront this whole like baby thing and inner child thing,
because she was not good at loving herself.
Self-esteem is not an issue of other people.
Ultimately self-esteem is an issue of can you love and accept
yourself for who and what you are in this present moment,
fully and unconditionally, that's all it is and it's if the
Answer is no, then it's like, okay, well, there are tools and
there are ways that you can get yourself to that place and it
will never ever ever come from a husband.
Yeah, no, I completely agree with that.
I think that Majin do was for me.
I saw her constantly crumbling whenever he would put her down,
or say, these ribbing comments to her, especially, like, going
back in time. Obviously, in the future, I'm
sorry. The present day she was not
laughing, she wasn't entertained, she wasn't feeling
loved when he would do that to her.
And in the past she almost took matters into her own hands and
she was like, well, even if you don't think I'm beautiful,
everybody here does and maybe I am and it's like, she accepts it
for herself and participating. In the May Queen competition was
more for her because she didn't even win and she was, she felt
good about it. She felt good about performing
and singing. Singing, which again, like,
that's in her wheelhouse. Anyway, in tongue that has
wheelhouse. But yeah, that whole competition
and the way that, you know just her developing some confidence
on the stage was making him fall for her.
Again, making pain do like rethink and like he was like oh
my God, he turned other people and he was like does she look
amazing to you or what? And they were like.
No, not everyone looks like that like she looks really good.
Good. So again it's just like I don't
know why he wouldn't think to maybe change.
Yes, it's a love language to some people, but it definitely
didn't seem like a love language to her.
And I think what we can, oh, sorry, go ahead.
Yeah, no just to add, I think it just means again.
Like it doesn't matter what Panda thinks.
It doesn't matter what pain does says or does when it comes to a
healthy self-esteem and a healthy ego.
It's up to jinju herself to go and find that and participating
in events, like the May queen, or a talent show or going and
finding her own thing, right? That is going to be the means to
attaining a self-esteem and a healthy ego.
And no matter what Punk was says, wouldn't shake her Her if
she had that subtle that's solidity in her like I'm saying
like when my comedian friends rib me and write down, write
funny as hell. I'm not sure if you don't have
them out of the issues but because I don't give a crap what
anybody says or thinks about me or my body or my opinion,
doesn't matter. I like it.
I love it. I love the way I am.
So go off. It's okay.
That's the point. That's why she had to go back.
That's why she had to confront her.
Stand that way because she was lost, she was totally
disconnected from who she was. All she could do was cry about
her dead mother or cry about how her husband's not meeting her
needs or cry about how our baby's missing is.
All she could do. It always had to do it.
Other people missing but it's like no, no, nobody is going to
fill that up for you. You gotta go it and get it
yourself. So to me pain, do it didn't
really bother me as much. Yeah, I think she there's a
scene at the beginning of the show where she is out and about
with her. Be in the stroller and she has
like a stain on her shirt and she looks really run down and
she's self-conscious by just one person like looking at her.
She's feels very self-conscious. She tries to hide the stain and
you know it's all about I think in the past like you said it's
going back and just finding that place where she feels beautiful
all on her own and absolutely like feeling beautiful in the
present day. Like, Nothing to do with like on
do at the end of the day and I've had everything to do with
her and how she saw herself. I do wish like really quick,
like, going back to that note that you were like, she doesn't
really have a dream when she was in her 20s.
And I do feel like that's a Miss on the show because like tomando
had such a clear, like, oh, I love movies, he had all these
movie posters which were great to see.
Like, yeah. Brad Pitt from Legends of the
Fall, and Titanic, and Truman Show, and ghosts and Leon the
Professional. All these.
He's different movie posters and you could tell that he was a
movie buff. And he really liked that was
part of his personality. And in going back, she didn't
have like these touch points that you were like, oh, she like
to do this or oh, she was into that back then.
She had this dream and it wasn't explicit that she wanted to be a
mother either. So I was like, I don't really
get like what the, what her what she was aiming for.
She was a history, major, but like she didn't seem that
interested in History either. Yeah.
I feel like that. Yeah.
And I think I think that's the reason why she had self-esteem
issues. That was the reason why when
she's an older woman like she feels like she's empty and
missing and they're all these gaps and it's like I don't think
the show was trying to falter for that know the show was just
revealing to know, it was just revealing to everybody.
It's like some people at a certain point in their lives
look back and realize that their life has been that empty That
that they've been dictating their whole lives around, fears
and expectations of other people and it could, it could happen at
age, 7 or it could happen at age 70.
It doesn't like, there's no way to know and it's like, for some
people, like, when they reach that Pinnacle of divorce, a lot
of the times, it's that I have, I have I have friends around me
now who are getting divorced, because they're, like, I didn't
know who I was, and I think that's what's And ginger because
it's like she didn't know who she was.
And that's why she felt lost all the time.
But what she did know is once she became a mother, it's like
now, I know who I am. Now, I know I have a sense of
purpose and it's like, that is just as honorable and okay, you
know, and that's why she had to go back.
So the show is actually very nuanced and complex and being
able to deliver some kind of painful truth.
That could actually be Eating Lee traumatic when a woman
especially in her late 30s or mid 40s or whatever, when they
suddenly confront that and that's actually the case with a
lot of Korean mothers. A lot like countless Korean
mothers because patriarchy is so like such a Stranglehold in that
country. So I want to wrap up with just
looking at some of the comedic B because you're a comedian and I
don't know if you remembered some of these things but they I
think the friends had like a Bruce Lee outfit going on for
much of the show and they even comment on it.
And that was pretty funny to see the long hair on yoo-kyung, who
plays the character duck chick. I don't know if you remember
that scene, how they revealed it, they were being punished in
there. It's not a club.
It's like their major They were, I can't remember engineering.
I think they were engineering majors and they were being
punished in a written one of the classrooms.
And they were like, man. I just wish that a girl would
like come through and save us because they were like, this
whole thing will end if by some miracle, a girl walks in the
room and they think that a girls walking up into the room and
it's actually Yi kyung because he looks his silhouette.
Looks like a girl, which is a pretty nice bait and switch.
Yeah, can become be tagged wise. I thought it was really funny.
Yeah. The flashback of her getting
freaked out by The Ghost and Library which isn't really a
ghost at all. And they put the psycho musical
score over top of it, which I thought was brilliant.
It's not even like the actual It's like the opening credits of
psycho, which I thought was like, who's gonna know?
This is particularly a psyche from the Psycho movie.
Yeah. And then they spoofed to kdramas
as well, they spoofed Goblin. They started playing like the
Beautiful Life song from Goblin. And then they also spoke
descendants of the sun with like a clear.
Rip, she drops a handkerchief and the guy comes and looks All
the part of some dookie and I thought those were really good
moments. Did you did you have any moments
that you remember being really funny to you?
I mean, like again the writer is a comedy writer.
She's a sitcom writer. So it's like, that's a given.
I feel like comedic, not so much, but perhaps like a
satirical sort of moment that I appreciated on this show is the
scene. I think it was an episode 2.
When change is walking somewhere and a guy on campus Apus grabs
her by the wrist and yank sir towards him and he's a stranger.
She don't know who he is, but there's like a slow-motion
effect. It's like romanticized, but
she's like not responding in a romantic way.
She's kind of like what the hell, you know?
And I was like, oh, this is great because they're the
creators of the show are spoofing on that Trope of the
wrist, grab him like like for me, I bark about it all the time
on my Cast. But I hate that moment because
it's like, first of all, why how dare you write like that's her,
that's her wrist. Yeah.
Like why are you yanking her around toward that's very
aggressive and violent and unnecessary.
It's not cool. You know?
And the show was satirizing that it's like, yeah, this is in
Korean dramas all the time and they frame it at a romantic
Meson son, but it's not. Okay, stop doing it, you know,
right? And so I appreciated that
moment. Yeah, I like that move into.
We need to have more like we need to do satire on more tropes
but yeah, that was a really good one.
Well, I think we're coming to the end of the episode coming to
the end of my notes. So do you have anything to add
before we get out of here? I have a podcast called K trauma
school, which you can go and visit a kdrama school.com.
I also have a book that will be coming out early in 2024.
It's called kdrama school and it's a pop cultural inquiry into
Korean TV dramas and why we love them.
So you can visit my website, kdrama school.com, / book.
And if you want to subscribe on the email, you will get.
Pre-order link once the book is out.
Sweet. Yeah, please support me.
They're awesome. Thank you so much for coming on
Grace. I really appreciate it.
And that's been our show. I'm Jessica and this has been
about key Rambles podcast.