I'm Jessica and this is Taba K Rambles where a couple of
friends review Korean dramas and we are back to review a slice of
life K drama that really broke me to pieces.
And for this episode, I am joined by my good friend Miguel.
How are you, Miguel? I was all right.
Yeah, we I was doing great. We were fine and then we watched
Move to Heaven, which is what we'll be reviewing today.
If you're unfamiliar with my guest host today, if you want to
scroll back and listen to the two Squid Game episodes, you can
listen to the 2521 review Snowdrop, First Love the Glory,
Alice in Borderland. Miguel has been on the tip out
for you quite a bit and I basically chose this a long time
ago secretly and then finally talked to you about it at the
beginning of the year. I think we were at a movie with
our friends and we were chatting afterwards and you were talking
about some of the media that you were consuming at the time.
I think this was late 2024 or summer 2024 I think.
Yeah, it was around that time. It was.
Yeah. And you were just talking a
little bit about how you were really resonating with some of
the media, and one of them had to do with, like, grief.
And you were talking a little bit about your grief journey
with your mom. Yeah, all of us strangers, Yeah.
And I said, I don't know why. I thought, oh, let's just up the
ante here. Let's watch Move to Heaven.
I said, oh, you would love Move to Heaven.
This K drama that came out a few years ago.
It's really good. And put that in a back pocket.
Neither of us watched it, but you know, for Season 6 of
Tibock, I was like, hey, I know we got Squid Game going on.
I know season 2 and three are coming out in 2025 and we got
that. But did you want to watch Move
to Heaven? When you first mentioned it, I
was like, you know, no, but this was at the very like, so I was
looking for ways to kind of explore my grief in a kind of
healthy way, which is a really difficult thing to do.
You know, I think that a lot of media around grief can fall into
like solipsism, despair, like just complete hopelessness.
And no matter how bad it gets, I try to, you know it, it's
important to have hope. It's important to have faith.
So I was really careful with what I was watching.
And so when you mentioned this, I had this very split thought of
like, I understand It's like I think you would love this is a
very weird way to phrase that. But it's also I knew what you
meant. And I'm like, OK, well, at this
point, this was you got me at the point where I started
watching like Dazed and confused Dogma, Like I went from really
highbrow grief to just keep living, man, hippie hangout
movies and whatever. So I'm like, I'll put that in my
back pocket and we'll come back to that.
But when I saw the concept for Move to Heaven, even at the
time, I'm like, OK, I'm not ready for this now.
Whenever that was, I think it was last summer even or even
early spring, it was very close. It was very close to when it all
happened. I was like, this is a very
interesting concept and I want to see it but I can't right now.
Yeah, I mean, I didn't push it. I was like, you know?
No, no. We'll do this later, if
anything. I had like a mild panic attack
because I'm like, wait, I want to come through for this because
I love recording. But on the other hand, it's like
no girl, like we'll come back to this.
Yeah, I, I really didn't talk to you about Move to Heaven until
basically like a year later when I was planning season 6 and I
said, damn, I really do want to rewatch Move to Heaven.
And if I'm going to rewatch it, I would love to extend the
invitation first to you, Miguel, to see if you want to watch it
and we can talk about it. And you said yes.
So here we are. We're going to talk about here
we are, damn it. So before we do, if this is your
first time listening, thank you for listening.
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New patron. Thank you so much for being
patrons. All right so we're going to talk
about Move to Heaven and I'll go ahead and read the MDL synopsis
and we'll get into the non spoiler section and break for
spoilers, OK? The MTL synopsis reads Han Guru
is an autistic 20 year old. He works for his father's
business Moved to Heaven, a company that specializes in
crime scene cleanup where they also collect and arrange items
left by deceased people and deliver them to the bereaved
family. When Guru's father dies, Guru's
guardianship passes to his uncle, ex convict to Sangu, who
is a martial arts fighter in underground matches.
Per the father's will, Sangu must care for and work with Guru
and Move to Heaven for three months to gain full guardianship
and claimed the inheritance. Eyeing money, Sangu agrees to
the conditions and moves in. The show was adapted from the
nonfiction essay Things Left Behind by professional trauma
cleaner Kim Sibiol. Kim Sibiol is the first person
in Korea who worked to arrange articles left by the deceased.
So interesting. Very.
Yeah. This show aired in its entirety
on May 14th, 2021, and it is 10 episodes long.
It is directed by Kim. So long.
This is his first K drama directing job ever, but he's
written and directed a lot of movies.
Some of those were notebook from my mother, How to Steal a Dog.
She came from fantastic pair of suicides, 1 Shining Day, a
segment called The Treasure Island and into the Mirror.
And there's more where that came from that he also just directed
and didn't write and direct like Tarantino the whole thing
because he directed one segment of this film called 1 shining
day in 2006. It makes me think that he's
familiar with doing sort of an anthology, and that's very close
to what Moved to Heaven sort of is a lot of chapters of people's
stories. The writer is Yunji Young, and
she's done not very much, but what she has done is very
iconic. She's only written Boys Over
Flowers from 2009. Oh well, if that's all I mean.
So she wrote Boys Over Flowers, She wrote Operation Proposal
from 2012 and Angel Eyes from 2014.
I have watched all three. I did end up dropping Operation
Proposal. Operation Proposal is like a a
butterfly effect show where there's this guy who really
loves this girl, but she is the one that got away on her wedding
day. He's kind of like, Oh my God,
I've lost her forever. And he gets the chance to go
back in time and like, fix it because there's certain
junctures and moments in his life where he was like, if I
didn't do this or if I picked the opposite thing, I could end
up with her. We could be together.
And every time he goes back to time, he just mucks it up even
worse. Or he or she doesn't end up with
him regardless. So it was just over and over
again the same thing. When I'm going back, he changes
nothing. It comes back to the present day
still they're not together. It goes back in time, change
something else and it's it's, it's honestly really frustrating
and. It sounds really grueling.
It was like it feels like the movie, right like that, like
just having to go back. It's like this just keeps
getting, bro, just stay where you are.
Literally just let it. Just let it go.
It wasn't meant to be. So that's operation proposal I
never finished. I don't know how that ends.
And then Angel Eyes, which is a story of first loves.
They're like two teenagers. They're in love.
But once the girl is blind and then through circumstances, they
they can't be together. They grow up, but she has a like
an eye surgery, like an eye transplant thing.
So then as an adult, she can now see, but obviously she doesn't
recognize him as an adult because she's never seen him.
So like that whole thing, rekindling that first love from
their youth, it's wild. It's very heart wrenching, all
of it. Sounds, it sounds grueling.
It sounds grilling. And it's like, oh, and for my
next trick, I don't know, I'm going to film a baby kitten
trying to wake up its mother that it doesn't realize is dead.
Like for 10 episodes. Like, how much suffering can you
take in a single lifetime? What is going on in Korea?
We'll get into that with this show specifically because the
amount of times I paused and I was like, bro, is this just
America in a different font? Like, what is going on over
there? Like, what do you mean the
hospital's closed? Where am I Like Like I was like.
I know. So to round out the cast, we
have Idion, who plays Toh Sangu. He's the uncle.
He's been in about 19 movies, 16 TV shows, including most
recently The Art of Negotiation. He's been in Chief Detective
1958, all three Taxi Driver seasons, Where the Stars Land,
one of my favorite time traveling romances, Tomorrow
with You. And of course, we covered Signal
from 2016 on the first season of Taebak.
And as of today, I think this is still Rico's favorite K drama
that he's ever watched. I could see that, yeah.
You could see that. Yeah, that.
Makes sense. It's pretty.
Excellent, though it's a good choice.
It's a class. It is.
Tang Jung Sang plays Han Guru, and he's been about 10 movies
and seven TV shows. He is pretty young.
When I saw he was born in 2003, I was like, ah, Dagger to the
heart. He's been in shows like oh, my
ghost clients, Nootopia, Racket Boys, which is a sports show
that I hear is very, very good. And of course, little show crash
Landing on you from 2019-2020. You're like, oh.
Yeah. A couple of side characters that
I'll mention. Hong Sunghi plays Yun Namu.
Her nickname in the show was Next Door.
That's so funny. She's been in Navilera memorist
psychopath diarrhea. I want to hear your song Just
Dance. We've have covered Navilera on
the podcast view if you want to scroll back and listen to that
review. G Jin Lee plays Han Jung U He is
the father to gudu. He's been in about 14 movies, 28
television shows, including as far back as Jewel in the Palace
from 2003, Spring Days, Dong Yi from 2010, Designated Survivor,
60 Days from 2019, DP Season 2, which we have covered on the
podcast feed, Romance in the House most recently, and 9
Puzzles, which is a really, really good crime drama on
Disney Plus that just I think finished airing like several
days ago in 2025. So that is our main cast.
I'm going to toss it over to you and ask, what did you think of
Move to Heaven? I, I loved it.
Yeah. I really loved it.
I thought it was, I thought it was really beautiful.
Like just the concept by itself of having trauma cleaners, which
I didn't want to look into it in case it was one of those things
where if I Google it'll, you know, bring up spoilers
immediately. So hearing that it's actually
based on something pretty real was really interesting to me.
I love just the whole concept, like we're going to go in, we're
going to take out everything that's the most painful and then
you just deal with it on your own way.
So I loved it. I think the characters were
really strong. Every single one of them kind of
had their own thing going for them, but it was also just gut
wrenching. Like it was just really, really
gut wrenching. And I don't like, I think, how
do I put this? I think they really did a good
job of like the show was presented very plainly, right?
I never got the impression that there was a lot of melodrama
forcing you to feel bad about something and having go to his
character, he has Asperger's, if I'm right with that, right.
So I actually follow a few different pages on TikTok about
Asperger's and kind of how they live and a day in the life kind
of stuff. And I found having his character
be front and center with his condition acted as a really
grounding personality to everything that was going on.
He can't display the emotion that he feels.
He has a very matter of fact way of approaching everything.
So instead of having like Comic Relief where oh, we got to make
a joke because this is getting too bleak.
Just his presence and how he presents things kind of gives
everything like a final line to everything.
It's a very it is what it is show.
Of course, that changes as we go on.
But I thought that was a really interesting concept and it was
really just funds, not the right word, but it was a very it was a
solid watch. This is probably one of my
favorite K dramas in a while, yeah.
I'm glad to hear you say that because I was really worried
that it was going to hit you sideways or something because it
is not it's, it's a heavy watch, right?
Like this. As much as I love slice of life,
when it's done well, also when it's done well, it's going to
freaking wreck you. And this is one of those shows
where if you're into it, it's going to really upturn you.
And it's emotionally just a beautiful story.
And it's talking a lot about grief, how you handle it, how
different people that are neurodivergent would handle the
same event. And it's all a valid experience.
Like it's there's nothing greater or lesser.
How should you look at life? How should you look at the
losses that you take in your life?
And I think that ultimately the show is very optimistic.
About everything, yeah, that's the word.
That's a word that I would use. And I feel like that's not
something that's very common and there's a very life goes on
approach to it. Like there's still pain and
reconciling literally and figuratively with what people
left behind. Just showing that death isn't
really the end. Like everything gets affected by
a person's death, whether love, hate, indifference, anything,
that death is going to reverberate and cut through
everything and it's only a matter of time before you run
into it. But it handles it with optimism,
which you really don't see. Like you really don't see
optimism with stuff like this or the topic of death in general.
So, yeah, interesting. And I'm one of those I have a
morbid fascination with trauma cleaners and crime scene
biohazard cleaners. And so before I even watched the
show, I had already known about this profession, if that makes
any sense. What took it to the next level?
What's the K drama of it is that they go above and beyond, right?
And they kind of like get at that in the show is that they're
not just coming in and wiping away all traces of this person.
So you don't have to deal with cleaning up all the family
photos and getting rid of all these receipts.
And of course, also the nitty gritty of like there might have
been a putrid body in the room that needs special care and
handling to get all of the cleaning done, all of the
sanitation handled. They are actively seeking out
family members or people that were important to the deceased
and giving closure, giving catharsis to these people,
helping the deceased speak from beyond the grave.
Giving them dignity was such a huge part of it, like even in
the most gruesome death that we see, which we'll get into, they
were especially Guru and his father, they were very steadfast
about, OK, we're here to clean something up.
Let's pay respect. Let's do this with respect and
just piercing together what this person was thinking, who they
were, what they left. Everything's a story.
It's so good, Yeah. I love that.
I love that part of it other than the just general interest
piece of it of like this person was left in the room for three
months and then we came in and we had to, you know, there was a
lot of stuff got under the tiles and we had to.
I am super interested in that. And I understand that's not
everyone's fascination. I know that that's might be
unique to a certain subset of people.
Might be the true crime girlies out there may understand me a
little better than the usual slice of life K drama girlies.
But that's just me. And that is also what made the
show different, I think, for a lot of people, is that there is
a morbid aspect to it, but there is, like you said, a lot of
dignity to this profession. And the way these characters,
you know, handle all of the belongings, all even the space,
when they walk into it, they pay respect.
As soon as they walk into it, they introduce themselves to the
deceased. It's very beautiful and
intentional. And the box being yellow.
Oh stop it. Like the box being yellow.
Oh my God. Yeah, well, do you want to talk
about why the box is yellow or? You're just my interpretation.
Yellow, I mean, yellow is just the most joyful color, right?
I mean, everything about how they're set up is so optimistic.
The fact that the company is called Move to Heaven, I mean,
come on, that's pretty good. And then like the box being
yellow, it's just such a joyful box.
And when you open that, the inside is yellow, the outside,
it's like very intentional design.
So when you open the box, you would see how the light would
shine in. And just like everything looks
illuminated in the box. Everything looks beautiful and
joyful and like, hey, this is the most prized possessions.
They're left behind, but they're in a safe, happy, bright place.
I love that. Like when I saw the box, I was
like, but I have a whole thing with yellow.
I love you. I'm wearing yellow.
I. Love yellow.
I love yellow. Joyful color, yeah.
But yeah, I just. That's a little detail that
stuck out to me immediately. I was like, oh cool.
Yeah. So.
You mentioned Gudu and how he is basically the conduit through
which we view the show a lot of the time, and he's a very
sympathetic character. His grief is, I think, what
breaks me the most when I rewatched the show.
How did you find him and what what were your thoughts about
Han Guru as a character? I'm gonna do as a character, I
think really, he broke my heart the most out of anything that
happened in that show, except for one thing.
But even that takes second place to I found his character very
difficult to reconcile with because even with being
neurodivergent, it shows that we all kind of experience the
stages of grief in the same way. He may not recognize it right
away, He may not process it at the same time, but that's
variable. It doesn't it?
It really gave him a strong kind of point confronting death and
confronting his own grief. And the stages, if you watch the
show really carefully, you can see them unfolding.
And he gets more and more agitated because he doesn't
understand what he's going through until it hits him.
And when it hits him, it hits US.
And when it hits US, it kills everybody in the city because
it's so incredibly sad. But I think this was a really
good representation of grief from a very, as far as I've
seen, uncommon perspective. But I think it is character was
he was funny, even if unintentionally.
And at times he was, he had a very strong sense of what was
right and wrong. And his grief journey is just
like ours, just like everyone's like I loved him as a central
character. He's one of the most interesting
characters I've seen in a long time.
Along with that, I want to say this is something that stood out
to me because I was hoping it wouldn't be like this and
thankfully it wasn't. There's a lot of shows that will
take a neurodivergent character like Oh my God, The Good Doctor,
The Big Bang Theory, House, or at least they're perceived to
be. If not, some of them are exposed
this summer and they they'll always take one of two routes
with it and both are so cringe inducing and horrible.
Either they take the comedy route where everything they say
is like, ah, he's so funny because he doesn't get one and
it kind of it feels icky, or they make him into this like
wide reaching savant and everybody's in awe of him and
everybody. And they didn't do that with
him. They respected Guru's character.
Like, sure, there was people who didn't understand, but right off
RIP, they noticed. OK, there's something about this
guy that's a little bit different.
Some people react poorly to it and they're rude, but they would
be rude to anybody. And he'll confront people who
can recognize his talent, but they're not falling over
themselves making a big deal of like, wow, he knows all this.
So his character was treated with so much respect, being
neurodivergent, but also the universe that he's in is a
little more grounded to that fact and very accommodating to
that. It's a world where people get
frustrated when they don't know what's going on, but they're
encouraged by other people to ask questions instead of making
assumptions. And I really like that, Like, a
lot. What did you get out and go to
his character? Like did you?
I think the first time I watched it, I was completely enamoured
by him. I was totally on his side and
was really upset with everyone around him who didn't understand
or weren't sympathetic toward him, if that makes any sense.
Yes, and this rewatch, I was still very drawn to him, very
connected with him. But Ijan's character of Sangu,
the uncle, I understood him a lot more.
And I don't know if it's because I have four more years of life
under my belt, but I'm like, I understand.
I, you know, him not understanding Gudu and being
very impatient with him and very aggressive and sort of like the
way he speaks and he's so gruff and everything.
I'm like, yeah. But he, you know, look at
everything that happened to him. He what do you think he's going
to have read all of the books on autism and all of the literature
and all of the YouTube videos that say, oh, so don't do this,
do that, don't do this, do that. No, like he's just no.
He literally just got a yeah like.
Like please. And was foisted on this adult
and this responsibility. So right, you know, Yeah.
So I had a lot more grace for EJ Inn's character of Sangu and his
journey as well. What did you think of EJ Inn's
Sangu, the Uncle character? I think with the uncle, I
actually really liked him from the very beginning.
I think that, well, we operate from the idea that if somebody
behaves the way he does, you know, short tempered, stressed
out, whatever, they have a lot of things that they haven't
confronted. So you can give grace to someone
like that. And I felt the same way, like,
OK, we didn't know his deal from the very beginning, but just
getting out of jail, you, you get out of jail to find out, you
know, is it, is it a spoiler? His brother, Yeah, it's in the
MDL synopsis at his. Yeah, So he gets out like, you
find out your brother's dead. You know, you find out you have
to take over as a guardian for your nephew and then live in
your. Like, it's just such a stressful
situation for anybody. And you get to the place, you
realize there's all these conditions that are attached to
it. They use it and ask for you
didn't even have a good relationship with your brother.
So I had a lot of empathy for his character.
And besides that, I found him really funny.
No idea. He's like.
Super great. He's so.
Funny, literally. Like he, he was a bit rough.
He was a bit, but I didn't see him necessarily as a bad guy.
Like if they were trying to make us hate him at the beginning, it
didn't click for me. I was like this.
He's just funny and he's not going to go out of his way to
abuse his nephew. But I liked him.
I thought it was funny. I thought he stepped up to do
the right thing when he needed to, you know?
And just watching his growth as a character is really rewarding.
I agree. Like he has a very good payoff.
So I totally agree. There's a moment with him that
we can get into in the spoiler section that yeah, broke me in
half. And I don't know if it the same
moment broke you, but yeah, I love EJ and he's a great actor.
And this role is suitably gross. Like it's it's a gross person.
He doesn't have great sense of personal hygiene and he's he.
Has a mullet. He has a.
Mullet, He's kind of an oath, but I like him.
It like despite everything, I like him.
I thought on this watch that moved to heaven reminded me a
lot of Rain Man. Oh, OK.
Oh, you know what? Yeah, I could see that.
Where Eden's character is Charlie Babbitt, which is Tom
Cruise's character in Rain Man. And it's like the same setup,
you know, he learns that his estranged father has died in
Rain Man and he returns home to discover he's completely
basically cut out of the will. All he has is the Rose, the Rose
Bush famously, and one car left by his father.
But the millions of fortune that his father left behind is left
to the mental institution where his older brother Raymond, and
lives. That's Dustin Hoffman's
character. And Dustin Hoffman plays
another, you know, autistic savant who, yeah, very famously
goes to Vegas and, like, takes Vegas.
That's that's the thing with Korean dramas though, right?
Like you'll be watching something in 1/4 of the way
through and like, wait a minute, this seems familiar.
This. Seems familiar.
It's like, let's go. And then it's always a 90s
movie. And you're like, right, yeah.
I mean. Let me be clear, it's a very
good spin on DO. A Little Rain Man, which is in
1988, it kind of swept the Oscars that year, was the number
one grossing movie that year. And at the end of the movie,
it's very similar to Move to Heaven where their lives are
changed, right? Their perspectives are
different. And maybe Dustin Hoffman's
Raymond isn't in any way, shape or form a cured or anything of
his condition. But in rubbing elbows with his
brother, Charlie Babbitt's Tom Cruise.
Tom Cruise's Charlie Babbitt, I should say, is changed.
She's like, it doesn't matter. The money doesn't matter
anymore. I'm just happy to have a
brother, Yeah. With understanding comes, you
know, Yeah, coexistence and all the rest of it.
And. It's very similar to Move to
Heaven, where, you know, Sangu, the uncle is like, yeah, it's
really not about the money anymore.
Yeah, What can I contribute? You know, I'm just so happy to
have this nephew and care for him.
And, you know, there's a real connection and bond here that
we've forged in the last three months.
And none of this is explicitly stated, which I love.
No, it's actually you're wondering until the very last
minute whether or not it's actually clicking.
And it's like, oh, OK, OK, thank.
God, absolutely. Who is the most annoying
character to you? Next door's mom.
Oh my God, yes. Like girl, leave me alone.
Like I get like my God. And you know, let me be clear.
She's not even in the show that no she like if we had to count
maybe 5 appearances maybe, but just the nagging and the
screaming and the throwing of cops and this and that.
Like by far, yeah. I didn't really have a problem
with even next door. Next door was a little bit
pushy, but it's justified considering, you know, they're
young. She's a next door neighbor.
She cares for this person who she sees as defenseless and is,
like, freshly an orphan. So even on her worst day, I'll
be like, OK. Like, she means well.
The mom, though, like, how dare you go over there and it's bad
luck to clean out people's houses and you're lying to me.
And you're like, non-stop. Like, yeah, enough.
Yeah, there's enough. It's just like a superstitious
bunch over there. It's always with the
superstition. Don't leave a ceiling fan on.
You'll die like you've heard about that, no?
What's that about? Yeah, so apparently they don't.
And correct me if I'm wrong, I've read this a few times over
the years. I've looked into it, but
apparently in Korean culture there's something called Korean
fan death where you can't just leave a fan on because you'll
die and it started from some electrical.
It started with a very reasonable explanation, but then
it evolved into like, it's bad luck to have a fan on.
And I'm a superstitious guy. I don't know if you know that,
but in a very, very, very mild, small ways, like the salt over
the shoulder thing, whatever. But but leaving a fan on like
it's hot, like we live in, we can't touch that.
We're going to get cursed. You know what I mean?
Like, yeah, it's adaptable superstition.
I'm leaving the fan on. All right.
Well, I think we've come to the point where we can probably get
into the spoiler section. So what would you rate this show
out of Fives Hoju bottles? 4 1/2 Four.
And a half, all right, I would give it a four.
What is the half point off for? There is something that didn't
pay off at all for me. It's a major plot point.
It's with the encore and I don't.
I feel like if they had a couple more episodes, it would have
paid off. But sometimes I wonder whether
or not they should have introduced it at all.
Because we come to the end of it and I'm like, OK, I feel like
maybe there was supposed to be a second season.
It feels like there was supposed to be a second season.
So I was already, like, on top of all the mourning and
grieving, that was something I had to add to my plate because
I'm like, what the fuck is Season 2?
Like, excuse me, I'm sorry, but like, where is it?
I'm like clicking frantically like where is in it, but other
than that, and it's, it's such a small thing in general in terms
of things I didn't like, but by virtue of that, I can't give it
a 5, but I'll give it a four and a half, okay?
I'll give it a 5 out of five because I love this show.
There's probably very, very few things that I would change about
it, if anything, if I can even come up with something in this
episode to necessarily complain about.
I love the show. I think it was better on 2nd
watch. It hit me so very deeply.
I was crying. I was sobbing especially in the
final episode. And you mentioned season 2.
There is no season 2, unfortunately or fortunately.
I of the opinion that K dramas should just stick to the one
season format as is traditional. And I don't see the need to
return for a season 2, although you can interpret the very final
scene as being like, well, then what's going to happen with this
person like it? There has to be.
There's more stories and you absolutely can iterate.
You can certainly do more Move to heaven clients and stories
drum up some through line for the nephew and the uncle to
solve in the course of a season 2.
I. Genuinely and generally don't
care for a season 2 and there has been nowhere of a season 2.
I looked up move to have in season 2 to see if there was
anything about it. Netflix hasn't said anything
about it. There's fake trailers online for
a season 2. Yeah, I.
Kept coming across that sketchy blog on Filipino Facebook.
Yeah, like. People will those K drama
editors are like fucking vile. They'll do whatever to just get
someone to click on their page and that is, I think that's
evil. Like people genuinely connected
with the story and they want, if they want a season 2, they're
looking for this online and then they see this fake ass trailer
like that's rude. That's so rude.
Horrible. So unfortunately for in your
case, there is no season 2 and I'm sure that upset you.
I'm sure that's part of the .5. Yeah, but not for the reason you
would think. It wasn't for the final scene,
it was for something else. OK.
Yeah.
All right. The final scene, I'm like, OK,
OK, But like, yeah, OK. We'll go get into it.
Yeah, yeah. Get into it.
Yeah. Right after this.
Excuse me. I can't tell.
You know I have no tingle.
Oh, sorry. Swear discussing shirts.
What All right, we're on the other side of spoilers.
So we are going to talk a little more in depth about what happens
in Move to Heaven and I would love to start us off and know
what what made you downrate and move to Heaven.
What got me was the Fight Club thing.
OK, The Fight Club thing confused me.
I felt like they were building something, but I never really
felt the stakes of the Fight Club.
I felt like there was a tension with the uncle just like, OK,
like, you know, he has someone after him.
He's going to gamble away the house and this.
But I never felt the stakes of that.
I never. So when there's finally a battle
and then his friend is like let or his prodigy that he brought
up, it just felt like not a useless pop point, but it I felt
like it should have either been resolved by the time he got to
the house and he just lives with that grief and lives with his
own regret. But every time they would go
back to it just, I was like, OK, like, what's the threat?
Yeah, I think you know. What I mean like I didn't, I
didn't get it. Like I didn't get what they were
doing with it. So OK, I took.
This way differently than you because even though it ends with
a little bit of a wah wah wah in the story, I took it a little
better than you because he does need this kind of closure with
his protege, his friend that he trained and was in a coma.
And this friend was actually he this this guy is actually really
famous now. It's Iduk.
He plays Kim Sochol, who's the protege dude who he saves from
like a bullying situation. And then he just sticks around
and becomes a national boxing champion, which I was like, OK,
all right. But I was like, you know,
Korea's really small. But anyways, so, you know, all
this to say, he is basically still ensnared by this old life
of his where he's in this underground Fight Club and the
the bitch bookie who's, you know, lying to him and saying
like, Oh yeah, I got like a new fighter for tonight.
She's very exploitative and conniving and she is still like
trying to drag him into this life and say like, oh, you owe
me because she's the one that's paying the hospital bills for E,
jokes Sutrol. Like that?
Character. Oh crap, never mind, I take it
back. I forgot about that detail.
Entirely OK, OK. That's what she's like.
You got to fight. You have to fight.
Please come back and fight. And he's like, no, no, no.
But also he is desperate to save Sutrol.
He is immensely guilty. Yeah.
Over what? He, he's still alive.
So it's him trying to hold on to like, OK, all right, I get it
now. Never mind, I'd like to change
that. And now it's a 5.
No, I mean, like it's still if, if it didn't work for you,
that's fine. But that's this is how I took it
and how I was reading it is that he was just so, so in pain, so
guilty and would do anything to save his life.
And it was never part of the, you know, you would think that
maybe he's like, no, you have to get him to live so that I don't
go away from murder, right? He's like, no but.
It's not, Yeah. It's not that at all.
He's saying you have to get him to live because I, I basically
can't live with myself if he died and you and I'm not going
to let you live either if he dies because it's totally on you
as well. That's real.
And then what? The bookie, the bookie being in
the world that she is, when he does die, she's like, you should
be thanking me, like, that's all your problems gone, right?
You're dead. You're not going away.
Like, you're fine. And it's like, I'm not fine.
So yeah. It's it's painful.
And that character as well serves as a almost like a found
family type of deal for Sambu's character before he obviously
reconnects with Gudu and the whole, yeah, gosh, that side of
the family. His brother, his blood brother
is, you know, he spent years presumably training this kid,
watching him rise up the ranks and become a boxing champion.
He says he wants him to go to a sport university or become, you
know, an Olympian. But get get out of this life
somehow and don't be like him because he's in a freaking
underground Fight Club. He's not.
He's like, I don't be like me. So I thought that was all part
of him taking responsibility for someone other than himself, for
him loving somebody else other than himself.
And then when he makes a mistake and loses that person, it's
completely devastating to him, to his character.
Yeah, and it forces him to confront his old grief with.
His brother, yes, exactly so. You know.
Because Sichol was calling him hyung, you know, older brother,
it's, it's a lot. It's a lot in there that's
packed into that one relationship.
One thing that I found interesting was that Suto's
younger sister was the one that was taking care of him in the
hospital. And when Sangu goes to visit the
hospital, she's like, look at what I'm doing.
Like this is what the reality is, is that I'm giving him
sponge baths. He has no consciousness, he's in
a full on coma. He's brain dead.
This is no life. No, even if they were to get
because there's the moment with the surgery and the doctor very
plainly tells him, look, we can do it, but he's he's going to
die in surgery. There's just no.
And he tries to get it done anyway, but even his sister's
like, you need to let this go. You need to let this go.
And that's like. He's gone.
Even if they fix it, he's gone. So yeah.
I found that really special, and that is a type of grief that I'm
sure a lot of younger audience members have never dealt with of
caregiving for a family member. Yeah, it's not.
I think that it's very. If you haven't been through it,
it's very like, first of all, it's.
Complicated. It's complex.
It's very, I felt. A lot for the sister and I was
very upset with Sangu who is basically delaying the
inevitable and throwing money down the drain, hoping that he
will get better or hoping that he'll just subsist in this
vegetable like state. Yeah, because before they're
gone, I think a lot of people from the outside would look at
that and say, well, wouldn't you want to keep them alive?
And it's like, no, because there are fates that are worse than
death. There are situations that are
worse than death and a situation just really begins to rot.
It's easy to look at that. And it's like, oh, well, what do
you mean you're going to sign a do not resuscitate form?
What do you mean you're not? And it's like, and if you're
directly in it, it's like it's not about an inconvenience.
It's not about a burden. It's not about a loss of love in
most cases. I mean, there's so many, it's a
kaleidoscope of just like earth shattering grief that happens
before what you know is going to happen is going to happen.
So you look at a situation like that and at a certain point
there's this acceptance where it's like I have to let go
because if I don't let go, this is going to undo me and
everybody around me. And also the reality of the
situation is very plain. And his sister was there and you
can recognize, I'm sure you you saw it like on her face.
She's like, no, like this, this needs to end.
It's. No life for her, it's no life
for him. You know, Sutol, the kid that's
in a coma, you know, Sangu just didn't see that.
He was like, no, he has to stay alive.
Yeah, that's but. He never changed a diaper.
I mean, yeah, very. It's very evident.
If you know, you know, Right. So like it, it makes sense why
he would want to do that. But ultimately what ended up
happening was for the best. So yeah, like it had to be so.
Yeah. So.
OK, so we've gone over over that whole thing, but there's so
there's so many stories. What was your favorite episode
or or you know story client of Move to Heaven?
Favorite is such a funny. Well, let's say I'm kidding.
I'm kidding. It's fine.
Not. Favorite, but, you know,
memorable ones, no. Yeah, the most memorable ones.
Oh, OK. The most memorable ones were the
school teacher. OK.
All right. Talk about it.
Yeah. The school teacher, 1, was
grueling. It was just grueling because it
was my favorite because three major things happen.
First, there's a school teacher, you know, she, she's looking
after the kids. She's doing living her life.
A friend teacher of hers just introduces her to this guy.
This guy becomes incredibly obsessed with her and ultimately
just kills her. But what I love about that
episode specifically is that good shows that he understands
love, what it is and what it isn't.
He can differentiate obsession and like possession from actual
true love. And we get to see in his own
way. It took me a while to get it,
but we get to see in his own way, him expressing real anger
towards the school teacher's assailant.
Like her murderer. Yeah, the stalker.
So he, I love the way that that episode played out for the
detective work. You know, they get there and get
her pieces together. He's like, this woman keeps all
of these instruction manuals to everything.
We found everything except for the camera.
She doesn't have a pet. She knew she was in danger.
Works with the prosecutor. The prosecutor shows him the
video, which was gut wrenched. Well, that wrong choice of
words, no pun intended, gut wrenching like shows him killing
her and saying you're a cruel person, you're a liar, you're
all this stuff and. He just starts laughing, yeah.
He just starts laughing even as the lawyer.
Was gagged the. Defensive lawyer was like and
he's just like looking down like holy shit, who am I defending?
I love that episode because it shows and all the episodes do in
their own way. They show different kinds of
love and different kinds of the impact that a person will make
on people's lives. So my favorite moment of that
episode, aside from the camera reveal and everything, because I
love detective work. I think you know this like I
wanted to be a detective, I wanted to do all this.
So seeing all that play out is so cool.
But when go to is like, it kind of flips the narrative.
I have to give this box to somebody who understands and I
need to show. So he shows this drawing of all
her students that will no longer be able to ever see her again
and how much they love her and how, oh, when I grow up, I want
to marry you. Oh, you're so pretty.
Thanks for not yelling at me for not eating broccoli, whatever.
And Gooder just keeps repeating over and over like, you didn't
love her, you didn't love her, you didn't love her.
And it clicked in my head at that point.
It's like, oh, he can't. His condition doesn't let him
really super duper express outwardly.
But this is the analog to shouting at somebody and just
screaming at them and trying to show that anger.
And seeing how that kind of shook up the stalker also really
got to me. But that episode was really hard
because it happens every day. You know you meet the wrong
person and it spirals out of control before you know it.
That's it. So.
Yeah, this episode was definitely brutal.
It was episode 3 and I can't remember where where I heard
this, but stalking is a murder in slow motion, yes.
I've. Heard and this was exactly that,
right? This guy inserted himself into
her life and was clearly obsessed with her.
She wanted nothing to do with him.
And there is a small moment where you see in a flashback, he
shows up at her apartment. He's banging on the door.
Let me in. Let me in, let me in.
The cops get called and he lies his way out of the situation
saying, oh, look, we're, we're lovers, Like we're just having a
little spat or whatever. And the cops leave.
They leave him there on her front door.
No more questions, no more they're like oh OK, bye like
which is fascinating to me because it it really something I
love about K dramas is it reminds you there is no utopia.
It seems like people are alike all over.
Nobody listens to women with stuff like this.
And it's it's weird because it's like, how do you even explain
that? Like, oh, yeah, we showed up.
But he said it was just a fight they were having.
It's like that's a domestic disturbance.
There's people screaming loud enough to wake neighbors and all
that. Like, what do you mean you just
leave? Like I don't it's.
Troublesome. It's madding and obviously it
ended with her losing her life. And for nothing completely.
Avoidable. And we don't know.
They don't tell us. Oh, she took out a restraining
order on him. She did all this or whatever,
but it shouldn't have to get that far.
You know what I'm saying? Yeah.
It shouldn't have to get that far.
There was plenty of times to stop it.
I do like in that episode that the uncle will see he's going on
his run, like just training, and he sees this woman getting
thrown to the floor and that Herman is just like, you know,
degrading her, making her feel terrible, just abusing her in
general. And he just runs past.
Like, you know what? That's none of my business.
But after that situation and realizing, oh, I can step in and
do something. I can help someone.
We understand why later because the first time he intervened for
this kid who was getting beaten up by all these bullies, he took
them on as a brother and all this.
So, you know, of course he would be hesitant to try to step into
another situation again. But I think that was a really
cool moment for him because he's like, no, I, I have to do
something about because he sees them fighting again.
Beats the shit out of the dude. Yeah.
Yeah, it emboldened him to do something about it.
It's. A very pivotal episode.
Yeah, it's. Super pivotal.
Also you learn, I'm not sure if it's now or later but you do see
in flashback form his childhood and how he did come from an
abusive household where his father was a piss poor drunk and
was constantly beating up on their mother and beating up on
him too. That was gut run as a child
screaming like just kill me and he's like I'll never give you
what you want. I was like what the fuck?
Oh my God. So I can understand from his
point of view how he's like, I just don't want to get involved.
Like this is more trouble than it's worth to insert myself into
somebody else's story. And I feel like that is also a
very pervasive Korean thought is like, mind your business.
That's not my business. That's not my household.
That has nothing to do with me. Yeah, it's and it's kind of like
and. That's not really an American.
That's not really an American ideal.
I would say, no, it isn't. And I would like to make a call
back to this, to the Squid Game episode that we had where this
dude comes with all this food and he's mocking all these
people and he starts like crow hopping on top of all the food
and everything. And I think I mentioned like, if
that happened in Washington Square Park or anywhere, that
guy would have gotten his shit rocked so hard, so fast.
But I don't see that in these Korean dramas.
I'm not going to say that that's a direct reflection of their
society. I don't know, but I do something
that always throws me about all these Korean dramas.
Someone's having a heart attack and collapsing to the ground.
Someone's just, and people just walk by.
Like it has nothing to do with me.
Like everyone just walks by and it's weird.
It's so weird and frustrating to watch like, like, help them up.
They're on the floor like. Extended bystander effect.
Yeah, it's weird, but. Instead of the bystander effect
is, oh, somebody else will handle it.
There's surely somebody else will come and help this person
or take care of the situation. Call 911, whatever it is.
I feel like in Korea, the bystander effect is no one's
going to do anything about this, Why bother?
Yeah, I hate it. It's weird.
So that's. That's the episode that really
stood out to me the most. That's the episode that we get
so many different angles you see you go to expressing anger, not
at himself or not in the form of frustration.
So that was really cool. Seeing the uncle's character
kind of grow past that bystander effect was also really nice.
The did you notice something I wrote this down there was did
you notice how many women in power there were in this show?
Like, did that stand out to you at all?
Like no. But ask me about it.
Yeah, so there's like a lot of women in power here.
Like you got the ringleader of the underground Fight Club, you
have the prosecutor of this case, the main detective of this
case, you have what was the name of this woman?
We meet her in the episode where, Oh my God, the old man.
Oh my God, yes, the the social worker.
Yeah, we have so many women at the like.
A lot of the major characters were women.
That really stood out to me because that's not really
common. I don't have anything to
elaborate on that. I just found it pretty
interesting. Yeah, I agree that there are a
lot of female characters in this show that are movers and
shakers, you know? Yeah.
That's the best way to they're they're leaving an impact.
And she recognizes specifically the prosecutors and detective,
Detective, rather, she recognizes Godot's talent right
away, doesn't make a big deal of it, but decides to kind of keep
an eye on him. So love that.
And that payoff is great, too. So yeah.
You mentioned the social worker though that is played by Suyong
from SNSD slash Girls' Generation.
Oh yeah dude. Yeah.
And that episode is one that really convicts you.
Whether you agree or not, it's going to convict you in some
way, shape or form. The story of the old man janitor
who calls move to heaven trauma cleaning for himself and his
wife who was in a long term care facility, but he checks her out
and they commit suicide together.
There's a lot. There's just a lot here.
I mean, there's a lot in every single one of these episodes.
But this one particular we talked about dignity in the non
spoiler section. And I think that as we get older
and, you know, the aging population as people get ill,
there's a loss of dignity when it comes to long term care, when
it comes to paying for long term care.
And dying in some way, shape or form on your terms is really
difficult to do. Absolutely.
You're at, I mean, you're beholden to so many things.
What your family wants, what the doctors want, what you know, and
it's and especially at their age, it's like, what are we
going to do? You know, like, how long is this
going to go? Yeah, it was a very challenging
episode it. Is challenging because they
basically euthanize themselves. Yeah, they euthanize themselves.
This has been pretty controversial for a while, yeah.
Absolutely. Yeah.
And the uncle is super black and white about it.
He refuses to clean the rooftop apartment.
He says he thinks it's cowardly and cruel to commit suicide.
It's tantamount to murdering his wife, his Good Wife.
There's no way to know if she wanted to die alongside of him.
And he says they're going to hell.
Like, he goes so far as to say, oh, they're going to hell.
Guru is like, hey, like, we don't talk about that kind of
shit around here. Yeah.
Like immediately, like puts a stop to that because that's
what's interesting about that, right?
Okay, sure. I work in an underground Fight
Club and yeah, I don't treat everybody the best.
And sure, like, I'll see a woman getting beat within an inch of
her life, but you know what I'm not going to do?
I am not going to abide suicide because it's disgusting.
And it's it's those very hypercritical, these very
hypocritical and hypercritical moments of just like, oh, that's
where your morality shows up to extrapolate all sorts of
judgement from a situation you can impossibly understand.
That's where I draw the line. And I think that that's this
show is so well written because he would be the kind of dude to
do that. Right.
Yeah. Like to look at it and be like,
oh, well, and then there's like a fear in there too.
Like, I'm not going to go in there to clean up.
Yeah. Like, he already wasn't that
helpful to begin with, but he was like, I'm not going to go in
there to clean up. That place is cursed.
They took their lives. They're ungrateful.
They're this. And it's like, oh, OK, right.
You know, maybe you could help other people.
Maybe you could find other ways to be, you know, to stand on
principle of morality. But and we see that all the time
that's you do. So, you know, in it's Sweden,
right? I think it's Sweden.
They've had a program for a while and you it takes months to
get approved or whatever, but you can euthanize yourself.
It's a very controversial process.
This woman shared her story about it and everything, and
it's controversial, but it always kind of fits into this
episodes kind of narrative, you know, where is the line and how
much choice do you actually have?
Yeah, it's just yeah, in. This case, the old man had
terminal pancreatic cancer. The infirmed wife had been
basically bedridden for presumably years and was in this
facility, was not living with him, needed 24/7 care, and she
had been saving her sleeping pills for suicide and was trying
to convince her husband to join her.
She's like, let's go together. And once he gets that terminal
diagnosis, he's like, I'm going to make your wish come true.
He says fine, like let's do it, let's go together.
Checks her out of the hospital when they go home and with
pancreatic cancer, forget it. Like you only find out that you
have it when it's too late. Like that's just a fact.
The. Old Man was played by Zhong Dong
Huang who is a prolific actor. He has been in things like When
the Phone rings, Hotel Deluna and he was the dad in the airs.
And then the old woman was played by Kanye Shim.
Funny you brought up Squid Game. She is the season 2 mom and
Squid Game player 149. And she's also been in a bunch
of K dramas like A Virtuous Business and Tell Me That You
Love Me. She actually got her starting K
dramas a little later than Zhengdong Huang, but also a very
well known face. I love this episode because
there's a lot that's like, not really said.
It's kind of cultural. They're living in a rooftop
apartment and the rooftop apartments in Korea are cheaper.
They're less desirable because they're so high up.
There's no elevator, less and less installation.
They're prone to extreme heat in the summer, extreme cold in the
winter. It's almost like a temporary
structure up there. It's not private because the
rooftop is kind of like a backyard for everybody in the
building. So everybody can come up to the
rooftop and right outside your door, and it's almost a surefire
sign that someone is living poorly.
You know, it's kind of impoverished.
It's like those maid chambers in Paris where you have that like,
have you heard that? Like you know, the top of those
buildings, they rent them out legally, illegally, but it's
like an attic where the maid used to live or whatever.
Like maybe 200 square meter apartment maybe super tiny
window that looks out, same thing.
They don't have AC anyway but it's burning hot.
No insulation, no bathroom, no nothing.
It's just you're like a border in that own room so not a good
sign. You're either a student or
you're broke. Yeah, exactly.
So they're living up there, this old couple or the old man.
And it's not until the uncle comes in and finds this tiny
door leading to a beautiful greenhouse full of thriving
flowers and plants. That too young, the social
worker says. Does this look like something
made by an evil man who killed his Good Wife?
And. That's no he had such an
appreciation for life. His whole bit with the flowers
was amazing there. Was a lot of language of flowers
in this episode he. Knew all the meanings of the
flowers. He had written them all down.
It was beautiful. It was so cool.
It was, it was very beautiful. And a lot of those flowers that
he grew himself or saved himself from people's garbage piles and
things like that, they are the flowers that adorn their funeral
and it's beautiful. It's just really sad.
It's so moving I. Know I love the whole thing and
even the language of flowers comes back towards the end of
the episode when the social worker sends back pink dahlias
to the uncle. The meaning of those are happy
to know about your heart. That was so cute.
Yeah. I love that.
The moment where Gary tries to give the flowers back.
I also that that was something that I really loved about this
show is that he doesn't always get it right and he doesn't
always get his way. So Guru keeps trying to do what
he thought was right. He gets all these flowers, tries
to give it back to the residents.
He's like, and they're like, what the hell do I want that
for? And he's dead.
Are you trying to bring me a curse?
Like what is this? And of course the only person
who accepted it was the little girl which that was earth
shattering, saving up her pocket money to buy him and and like an
air con unit for his. Yeah.
Like little office. Yeah, yeah.
It was so sad and but he didn't like good doesn't always get
what he wants and that's a really.
He doesn't see how people would perceive it.
Right, 'cause some. OK, what about the episode with
the son and the mom? The mother who has dementia?
Oh. Dude, Oh dude, that.
One was gut. That's a that's even earlier
that one I. Think that was the first one
that they did without his dad, yeah.
I think it's episode 2 where this episode the uncle moves in
and then the old lady with dementia dies alone and there's
a lot of maggots and bodily fluid on the floor and the money
grubbing son and daughter-in-law are like throw everything out.
We just want whatever money or bank book is in there.
And he has to wash all that bodily like excretion, Yeah.
It's. And he just does it because he's
like, well, that's my job. So sure, he's like.
Yeah, we can clean the money with chemicals and they're like,
well, do it. I mean they're just so rude to
him right off RIP. I actually have a note here.
I I wrote this a couple of times and that was the first time I
wrote it and I was like wow, everyone this trio encounters is
collectively such a piece of shit.
They are. And then later, by episode 6, I
was like, why is everybody in this universe such a piece of
shit? Like, it's, they're so horrible.
They're so horrible. And they take him for granted.
They take his work for granted. But there's a good kind of
gotcha moment with that, right? She has dementia.
She's walking around. And this whole time she was
trying to save up. All she could think about was
her son. That's it.
We don't know what led them there.
We don't know what led them to being estranged or anything.
He always looked like a brat, even in like the flashback
sequences. But this woman, she still had
her own life. And even though she did the same
thing every day, her mind never left the same thing.
He finally, finally gives him the box and he's like, I don't
want anything to this. You can't trick me into like
confronting this situation, opens it and finds this nice
little like nighty or like yes. This is thermal underwear, so I
can explain this a little bit. So it's a tradition.
It's an old tradition for sons and daughters to give red long
underwear to their parents as a symbolic gift when they received
their first monthly salary. Since houses were not heated in
the past, long Johns were the best present for offering warmth
and coziness. So it is an old Korean
tradition. This happened in the 80s when
the son got his first paycheck and he did give his mother, you
know, red long Johns, red thermal.
Underwear, she never used them. She was just so proud of the
fact that her son actually got a job and he write, she writes on
the and it was in 1988. 88, yeah.
So everybody was struggling, You know, that's that ominous Korean
year. And she's like, my son got his
first job and the date that she received it.
And I'm like, oh, I'm going to throw up.
Like I'm so I'm so set like and it's she never stopped thinking
about him. That's he's all she really cared
about. So he's like, she was like, I'm
going to get you a suit. I'm going to buy you a suit.
And it becomes like her route every day.
And it's just so gut wrenching. My God.
You see all these pictures that she has.
That one hit me the hardest because it's like when they're
packing up her place, you see all of the stuff that she owns
all these pictures, whatever. And you see her in these
pictures, and it's like, I don't know what she envisioned for her
life or who she wanted to be when she was an adult, but it
definitely wasn't what she ended up as.
Yeah, it's just so beautiful but also so sad.
And you can't run away from your feelings, right?
Because there's gonna be a kid with a yellow box who's gonna
shove it onto you. And that's it.
Like, you can run as far as you want.
You can collect all the money. You're gonna confront it.
So yeah, that. Was a a really moving episode
and I agree that the dementia grandma with the thermal under
Oh my God. Oh my shit, me out of here.
Oh my. Shayla What did she think of the
Doctor Who got sliced in the neck by a crazed patient and
died in the Ed? But he was actually a closeted
homosexual and his parents never accepted him and completely shut
down his relationship with his cellist lover.
It's amazing how you can be everything your parents want you
to be, and if you do one thing that's out of line and they're
not the right person, nothing you do will ever matter.
So. I just like, closed my eyes for
a second because like that was so spot on.
He's like, like, he's a, he's a doctor, right?
He's an accomplished, like, what else could he possibly owe you?
You know what I mean? That story was really gut
wrenching because it's another one.
Like I was watching him like wow on Pride month, but then I
realized it was like 4. Like the show's like 4 years
old. The show.
'S four years old, yeah, but. I thought that that was a really
sad episode. It was just really terrible.
But it also, it's not about, I want to word this really
carefully because I don't want it to come off as like shifting
responsibility or anything. But it's amazing.
What keeps you tied down, right? He could have chosen himself.
You know how final death is. Makes you realize it's like, OK,
all these rules exist. All these expectations for me
exist. How I live for myself exists.
Until the 2nd I died. Then it was all for nothing
because I could have just gone to San Francisco.
I wouldn't have died. Also, it's always sad.
It's always the wrong person to get killed, isn't it?
That whole thing was just terrible.
Wait, who should have died instead?
Well. The craze, not him.
The crazed. The crazed, the.
OK, Yeah. Who's like, give me drugs?
Give me drugs and holds a scalpel to a woman's neck like
no one was getting out of that one alive but and then seeing
his parents more his dad than anything like he's.
Like a war dog. He looks like a clown.
He's wearing like it's like he has all these ribbons and stuff,
like he, he's like in full military regardless of burning
all his son's things. That's like, you look so
ridiculous, the fact. That they didn't.
They were. They're the parents, Yeah.
And he lived, I think, in their house.
That's a question all about his he.
Lived with them I think is how I interpreted it.
And they did not clean out his room.
They still hired out. I think it signals that they
really didn't love him. They just expected things from
the mom loved him. You could see grief, but there's
a difference between the two. I see this a lot with a lot of
parents, especially of queer children, gay children, any
across the board or even outside of that through the lens of
like, this is what we want you to do for a living.
This is who you're being raised to be.
The very Rory's going to Harvard thing, You know what I mean?
Like you drill something onto someone for so long and the
second they fall short of your expectations, that's not love
anymore. You created a person, you're
building up a person and no matter what they do, they could
fall in line with everything you want.
It's not going to be good enough because it's not going to be
what you envisioned. That's not love, that's an
expectation. That's a hope.
That's an investment at best. In these parents mind, the
mother showed some semblance of regret.
She's like, you know, if we would have just let him go, he
wouldn't even be dead. And the father refuses.
He's like, well, it doesn't matter.
It's better this way because I would have never accepted that
and he wouldn't live right. The shame of it.
Right, like at that point your priorities are your military
legacy, what your war dog friends think.
The thought of being embarrassed, the fear of maybe
being embarrassed or humiliated or like you fell short
supersedes anything good your son will ever do.
There was never, he was never going to win anything with his
parents, so he may as well firebounded and moved to San
Francisco, I mean. The doctor was played by Kwan
Suhyon who is most recently from Buried Hearts.
He was in Cafe Minandong Record of Youth Abyss and 100 Million
Stars falling from the Sky, AKA The Smile Has Left Your Eyes,
which we have covered on the podcast feed.
Yeah, I thought this was another really difficult episode.
I don't know. Hearing Christmas music anytime
outside of Christmas always brings a little tear to my eyes.
So that Christmas song on a quartet of cellos?
Come on, I it. Was beautiful, like it was like,
Oh my God, and it was that should have been its own romance
thing. Like it was a good romance and
they were both very we. Missed out on a good BE elder.
Yeah, that would have been a really good BL and it could have
ended the same way. Maybe that'll be the spin off
like we'll just. Ends in tragedy no matter what.
I mean, don't they always? OK, so I'm going to move to the
end of that episode. Guddu says He envies Mr. Ian,
who is the cellist, because he got to hear from the doctor and
receive this present. There must have been so many
things that his dad wanted to tell him, but he never heard it,
never got the chance. He swears up and down that his
dad was not ashamed of him because every time he faced
obstacles, every time he got bullied or he got kicked out of
school because he was talking too much, he wouldn't shut up in
school so they just he could not attend regular school.
His father said not to worry, that it wasn't his fault.
God. That was so gut wrenching.
And that is such a simplistic but honest and innocent way to
look at, you know, it's almost evidence based love.
Yeah, yeah. It's like, well, that can't
possibly be true because so the idea that he couldn't wrap his
head around why this guy's dad just didn't love him or wouldn't
accept him, he's like, I don't get it, right?
And he's envious of the cellist because he got that closure.
He got that final word from the doctor.
And he was like, I never got that.
I know that my dad had something to tell me, had more to say,
more to give me. And he didn't get that chance.
And like, I don't, I don't want to get emotional on the podcast,
but like we all have those moments in our lives where we're
like, there's things left unsaid and I can't, I can't have those
words. No, you have to.
It's funny because I was just having a conversation about this
this morning. It gets to a point where it's
like if you remember the things that were most important that
you heard from someone before you lost them and you grow with
them, they change shape. So this is like really whatever,
but just hear me out. Like you'll take something that
you hear and not only will it take shape, but you can kind of
see it evolve. Everything you remember from
someone that you lost. Good advice, bad advice, things
you agree with, things that you don't.
As you grow older and your perspective changes and it
shifts and it morphs into something else, you can see
everything you remember from them evolve with them.
So that does live with you, but only if you choose to see it
that way. But especially at the beginning,
you're like, wow, I'm never going to hear anything new
again. And I'm sure there was so much
left on set. And it's just, how do you live
with that? But Guru finds a way to do it,
Yeah, in his own way. So it worked out for him, sort
of. Stop it.
And also he found the phone. Yes, he stop it.
So one thing before we get to the phone in the final like
couple of episodes is in episode 7, the uncle finds his older
brother's business card, the move to Heaven business card in
with Udaic's medical files. And he was diagnosed with
chronic traumatic encephalopathy, CTE.
And this is the biggest bullshit of the show actually, is that
the only definitive diagnosis can occur during an autopsy.
So the fact that he had a whole like medical diagnosis, he was
printing out Google Sheets on CTE and the symptoms of CTE,
that would never happen. You know, you don't know if you
have CT until it's basically too late, until you're dead and they
can crack open your brain and be like, oh shit, he or she was
suffering from CTE. Symptoms of CTE occur in four
stages, generally appear 8 to 10 years after an individual
experiences repetitive mild traumatic brain injuries.
I'm not sure if 8 to 10 years had even lapsed between when
they meet and when he dies. Yeah, that's in it.
It it just didn't track. I was like, oh, OK, because.
We get a 10 years prior flashback when they meet, but
that doesn't mean 10 years later, like in the present day,
he had just died or he had just succumbed to his injury.
Yeah, just doesn't it? Was like, OK, so it's only been
several years, you know what I'm saying?
All right, between that and oh, he fell in a coma after this,
the Fight Club I. Mean, I guess they could have at
least gone for like, oh, he has a TBI, you know what I mean?
Like, yeah, or they could have gone in another way.
But they don't have to make stuff up either, yeah.
Like the CTE diagnosis that cannot be made in a living
individual. There's no definitive test to
prove the existence in a living person.
So I'm sorry, like that part was not.
They're usually good with stuff like that in Korean dramas
'cause they're so medical heavy all the time.
So I wonder why they chose to take creative liberty with that
when they could have just gone with a TBI.
Yeah, like, I don't get it speaking.
Of the K drama of it all, the bookie bitch kidnaps Gudu in
episode 8 just but then lets him go very easily.
She's like, don't, don't make me stoop so low as to kill a kid.
Like that's what she had said. She's like, don't make me do
that. But that's where the show
started getting a bit. Something that I liked about the
show is it got kind of Boxcar Children, you know, like the
three. It got very Hardy Boys for a
second there. So when they kidnap him and he's
just playing cards cuz I guess you know Rain Man but.
I was thinking that, too. I was like, this is so Rain Man.
He's just playing cards with the bodyguards.
Yeah. OK, so wait, I just want to know
who tipped off it was good too, right?
Or who tipped off the detective about the underground fight?
Yeah, it was good too. It was.
Good too, right? Yeah.
OK, Cool, cool, cool. OK, we have to talk about the
first time I lost my shit in this show.
Like truly lost my shit was the June 29th birthday ritual.
On the same day every year, Guru goes out with his father and
this is the first year that he went out by himself to have a
picnic, quote UN quote with his dad.
It's the amusement park, chicken restaurant, pizza, Chinese.
And then they go to Sue in train station and do like a little
like prayer and they put a little smooth river rock and do
a like a Little River rock tower right by the train station.
And that is when the uncle realizes that it's for him.
It's on his birthday. And he's pissed and he's because
he's like, great. Like, so you treat me like I'm
dead, but you abandoned me. And then we find out this
department store collapse, which apparently is a real thing
that's. Absolutely true.
That's 100%. It's like the biggest loss of
casualties in a time of non war. And I was like, what?
Because I saw the footage of this building collapsing and it
was like, oh, it's real. It's totally real horrible,
yeah. June 29th, 1995, Sampung
Department Store in Sochodong, Seoul suddenly collapsed due to
structural failure, which resulted in over 1000
casualties, employees and guests.
The 5th floor showed signs of collapse in the morning of a
disaster. They ignored it and decided to
stay open while fixing the problems.
At 5:52 PM, the entire building collapsed in 20 seconds, making
a pillar of dust. The damage estimates were 270
billion won. A total of casualties included
501 deaths, 6 disappearances and 937 injured.
It was the biggest casualties since the Korean War.
And this is all direct from Guru's mouth.
It's true. And it's real and it's, I think
it's the notion of like this, this was a part that gave me a
tremendous amount of relief because the actor especially who
plays good his father, he is like kindness humanized.
Yeah, he has, like, whatever. He just looks very, very kind
and very nice. So I was like, I really hope
they don't pull A twist. Or I was like, oh, he just left
them there to rot in this train station.
So I was like, oh, thank God. Yeah.
We did get an Instagram question that says what if the older
brother actually did abandoned Sangu.
I don't see it. So he was time and place is so
important for this and also looking at their society.
So it's 1980 what this happened 9595 ain't no social media.
Ain't no none of that. OK.
Like these are two runaways who are trying to find a way to live
a new life without being found to begin with.
Nobody knows that that kid is there.
The older brother is older. He's not that much older.
He's. Still in school?
He's still in high school. Right.
So the whole idea is pretty far far fetched, but they're doing
what they think they have to do to survive to begin with.
He gets into the department store.
He buys the shoes that his brother wanted.
Do you know how? Like, how long is it going to
take to clean up that mess for him to regain consciousness?
Yeah, they said. He was trapped for three days
and then he was stuck in the hospital recovering.
That's it. Like how is he ever going to
find him again? Right.
Yeah. The thing of that was they
didn't want to be separated. The little boy was going to be,
the uncle was going to be put in an orphanage.
You know, that's like a, that's a bad look.
There's a stereotype and a, a prevailing notion around
orphans, right? In Korea.
You don't know where they come from.
There's a lot of mystery surrounding them.
They could be anybody. They weren't raised right.
You know, they didn't have parents or family to show them
right from wrong. And so they could potentially
turn out to be criminals. They could be murderers.
You have no idea. So the brother was like, no, we
can't be separated. I'll come and get you at the
train station on your birthday. And it just never had this
tragedy, had this very true tragedy happens.
He gets stuck under a building. Yeah.
And then he had to go to physical therapy and all this
other. Yeah, he had.
To completely get rehabilitated and it completely fractures
their relationship. Yeah.
Severs it completely we. See how they're treated.
There's that episode with Matthew where he's looking for
his mom, He is born, he's or he he's given up for an adoption.
Nobody in Korea wants him so they ship them off to the US to
go get adopted. Then they have no state status.
It's a whole thing. So I don't buy the And also he
bought all those Nikes anyway. He did make a concerted effort
to try to find him, but I'm sure there's privacy laws around
that. Like you can't.
Even if a social worker or something saw that he was
looking from, they can't. Just why?
Would they give that information to a teenager?
Yeah, and why would they give it to anyone knowing the situation
this kid is coming out of? That could be somebody dangerous
from his previous life. And then at this point, I, I
wouldn't, I didn't buy it. And I'm glad that they didn't go
in that direction. That was going to be really,
really annoying. If they did, it wouldn't have
fit. Uh huh.
So especially with how we find out how the Father finds Gudu to
begin with. Yeah.
Oh, no. Stop.
That if you have anything else, because if we're getting there,
that was the episode that was just like.
Well, I'll say so. I did break down when Sangu the
uncle finds all the Nikes and he finds like the little the little
baby Nike. I, I like lost it.
It was. So sad.
I was like and a. Little like that kind of was it.
Then we get episode 9, which is when we get Matthew Green's
story. The Korean American adoptee from
New York got deported because he's undocumented.
And that is a very real story, right?
I remember Were you with me when we watched Blue Bayou.
No, I wasn't. Oh damn, I thought you were.
So the movie Blue Bayou is also about this very real thing, you
know, this pervasive adoption story that is very painful for a
lot of Koreans. And she's not the mother.
And it's like the news broadcaster who feels very close
to Matthew Green and, you know, stitched his name onto, like,
the baby blouse and stuff like that before he left her house as
a teenager. She does this beautiful
broadcast in honor of him and it is all about this story, right
we. Need to do better.
The government over 60. Five years 200,000 Korean kids
stand away for overseas adoption and how this is a great dishonor
to Korea, which becomes known as the biggest baby exporter of the
20th century. It's humiliating, it's.
Humiliating and she calls the. Thing with choosing, like
choosing where the morals show up, you can't just get rid of
all these human beings just to hold up an image because then
the image is worthless. It's crazy that that happens as
often as it does. And that's how they've
officially decided. I don't know if they still do it
now. They do, I imagine right?
Or. It's getting better, is my
understanding of it. But there are still headlines of
people saying, you know, it was the 80s, it was the 70s and, you
know, my mom couldn't take care of me and she put me through the
system and told them specifically that she was going
to come back for me. She made every effort to build a
home so that she could pick me up and Take Me Home.
And when she went back for me, I was already adopted overseas.
They just went like, sent me away.
That's. Insane.
It's. Been a great source of
humiliation for Korea. It's only getting semi rectified
now. That's a long time to hold on to
something that draconian, but sure.
So this was a very heartbreaking story.
They're they're all heartbreaking stories.
But episode 10, we're going to skip to episode 10, which is the
finale. I was laughing that the uncle's
fight name is Nightmare. And then the opponent's name, he
was a Russian and his name was Hellraiser.
And I was like, shoot, All right, OK, sure.
I'll tell you. I at this point, this is the
point in the show where I started crying and I couldn't
stop. It was when Guddu comes into his
dad's room and does the trauma cleaning.
Trauma cleans his own dad's room, and he does his ritual
speech that says, you know, my name is so and so I'm here for
move to heaven. And I'm going to help you on
your move to heaven. Yeah.
Packs up all his stuff, his own dad.
It's gut wrenching. I.
Was a puddle. I was a puddle.
Absolutely. Just it.
It was just so sad. It was so.
Sad but the. Final stage of the phone doesn't
hit it. It is.
And that's the scene that really got me was actually just before
that when Gooder runs away and he goes to the aquarium back in
Busan that like I fell apart completely because he doesn't
understand what's going on directly.
The freshness of my dad being because you forget very quickly.
You start forgetting things very quickly.
So when he's saying I can't hear his voice anymore, he's
forgetting. And how familiar his dad's voice
really was like it his he's starting to time is starting to
pass and he's starting to forget.
And when he starts panicking at the aquarium and his uncle shows
up and he it's when he finally realizes because it's his
version of what we all do with grief.
You throw yourself into work, you throw yourself into your
friendships. You get really busy, you get
very determined. And he's finally having this
moment of I'm never going to see my dad again.
This is it. Like he, he's not going to be
here to say good job. He's not going to be here for
this. And that was so gut wrenching to
me because because it's just like, oh, he's getting it now.
It's finally hitting him now that all of these different
things are either way, the adrenaline has dropped.
He has to reconcile with this. But it's also such a beautiful
moment because then he realizes, like, at least I have my uncle
here and I want to have my uncle here.
But it that part just destroyed me completely it.
Destroyed me when he says I don't like this.
Yes, he says. I don't like this.
And I'm like, I just want to like pull him in for a hug, even
though he doesn't like hugs, because who does, right?
It's such a real global sentiment of like, I don't want
to go through this. I don't like this look all this
that. Shit.
Sucks and he's going through it and he he has to confront it.
He has to confront the reality. I love that he and when he's
trauma cleaning the room and he's undoing the closet and he
picks up his dad's clothes and he just like lifts it up to his
face. He just like, breathes it in and
I'm like, that's something that I wish we don't have that right,
that capability to smell what the characters are smelling as
we're watching media, right? Television shows or movies or
whatever. But that is very real.
Scent is such a powerful tool for memory.
So is taste and all the senses. I'll tell you, one of the most
visceral memories was a few years ago.
My aunts used to make pumpkin bread every holiday season, like
in Mass, and give out the loaves to all of their friends, you
know, at work, at church, everywhere.
And I remember going over to their house and just watching
them, watching them with this assembly line of pumpkin bread
and the way everything smelled and the way they looked.
And it's just, like, transported.
A few years ago, during the pandemic, I think, my mom bought
some pumpkin bread just from the store, and I picked it up
without thinking and took one bite.
And the taste of it, it was like in a movie, like a montage of
all of these memories, just like flashing through.
And it was so intense. Like it just hit me right in my
chest. All of the memories, the taste,
the smell, like I was back in their house, you know, 1520
years ago. And it completely gagged me.
I took one bite and I couldn't even swallow it.
I was just, like, frozen. And I remember my mom going,
hey, how's the pumpkin bread? Does it taste good?
And I was like, it's good. That's all I could manage was
just, it's good. And it took me, like, several
months to be like, hey, remember that pumpkin bread you bought,
like, in November? Yeah, that like wrecked me
because it took me back. And that's just one moment.
I'm sure everyone has their own particular moment where they
were walking through a Macy's and they smelled their
grandmother's perfume or their, you know, something that they
just. It makes them instantly
remember, instantly nostalgic and freezes them.
And it's, it's also the most innocuous things to like, it's
the most innocuous silly things. Like I had a situation like that
with Starbucks. Like, I was at a Starbucks of
all places. Like, OK, I'm here doing my
thing. And I hear the song.
It wasn't Duran Duran. It was Eyes Without a Face by
Billy Idol. And so I was like, OK, yeah,
like, I'm just trying to keep it together because my mom always
listened to literally nothing but 80s music.
And then Duran Duran comes on and I'm like, OK.
And then another song. It's the this is so stupid.
I'm going to brace you for this because it's so stupid.
You know that song I come from the land down on?
Yes. That comes on and I start
fucking sobbing. Yeah, with like a cold brew.
And I'm like, Nah. And just like running.
And so I was like, OK. And so watching that happen and
just how he, It's also so symbolic, the way that he would
never give his dad a hug because it really does hurt.
The name I'm going to start crying.
It hurts their nerves to just, you know, like it's very
uncomfortable because it's so, you know, binding.
So seeing him really embrace the shirt, like undid me.
It's like, Oh my God, no, it's Oh my God, the sticker, the I
love you sticker. Oh my God, Yep.
So many little Yeah, I. Know, I know.
But he seems well taken care of though, right?
Like now. That's why I love that the uncle
came around. He grew from it.
Yeah, but that was brutal. It was it was and then the last
part of the show that really, you know, this was the Niagara,
like me in a barrel pushed over Niagara Falls was this moment it
was He hugs the memorial trees, Yes, of his dad with the.
Plaques. That was so.
And then you hear in voice over, what did I always say to you?
Although you can't see someone, it doesn't mean they're not with
me. As long as you remember they are
not gone. Oh.
My God I hate it. I hate it and they.
Made and they made me really love the dad so much yeah so
like just the. Father Christmas level just.
So like kind understanding person and then dad and I'm
like, OK, wow. Like this sucks.
Yeah, but it was beautiful. It was right.
Like, I mean, the resolution is great.
It has it has really funny moments.
It was there a moment that actually like, you know, we've
done the set, like we'll we'll be here all day.
If we talk about what made us said.
Was there anything that made you bust out laughing in this?
OK, so when they go to the funeral for the old man and the
old woman who euthanized themselves, the uncle goes and
sees another funeral that's happening for some important
director at some conglomerate. And there's tons of funeral
wreaths, flower wreaths around. And he goes to steal one.
And as soon as he turns around, Gudu is there and he's like
thief. And he starts like pointing at
him and screaming thief. That was historical to me.
That was so funny. That took me out like, and he's
like learning in real time, like the ends can justify the means
sometimes, yet he's trying to learn to be a little more
flexible. Yeah, that was such a fun, like
moment. Just like they're not using it
anyway. They have like 1000 of these.
Like we need to bring something. I laughed when they go when the
uncle first shows up to the house it was after like no you
can't sleep in my daddy's room yes and honestly good like no
you can't but like no you can eat on the floor in the living
room by but when I. Don't know you.
This cracked me up and kind of he's like, well, he's not using
the room. He's like, it's my dad's room,
It's my dad's room. You can't and you know, miss
next door decides like she's there and she's like, you can't
use the room no matter what. It's not going to happen.
Well, where am I supposed to sleep?
And they do that classic like rough cut joke and it there's a
tent in the living room. The.
Yes, the can you see? It slowly like unzipping, like
the door falls and he's there with this really pissed look.
I'll give you, I'll give you one last one.
So when they go to the the cellist concert for the quartet
next door is like, Oh yeah, you're not going to like this
kind of music for sure. And was kind of like
disrespecting uncle. Yeah.
You cut too. They're actually in the concert.
Home Girl is falling asleep in the cello quartet concert, while
Uncle Sangu is wide awake, excited, clapping
enthusiastically at the end of the song.
Love that I. Loved it, I loved it.
There's so many little charming moments throughout everything.
Despite itself, there was so much humor in the show, and I
loved it. Yeah.
Wait. Was a quick little stray
observation I had about that, though.
Was that supposed to be like, a shocking twist?
Like we know he was going to be with a guy from the beginning,
right? And.
No, I think that was supposed to be shocking.
Was. That supposed to be?
Oh yeah. Were you shocked?
I mean, the first time I saw it, I was like, OK, not very
shocked, but I totally understand how if you assume
that it's going to be one of the three female cellist, how would
be really shocking that it's the male cellist who's the lover?
OK, I could see how they set that up.
I thought that I was like projected from space though.
I was like, OK, when are we going to find out that it was
the guy? But.
No, it's very obvious on the rewatch, but when I first
watched it, I was like, OK, I mean, it's still I had a very
muted reaction than if I was maybe Korean or up closer to
that culture. That's.
True. Yeah.
OK yeah. Oh, I love the I love the
diversity of the lives of the victims, too Oh yeah.
Like I do like that we had a good young and old.
We had a mix. We had a young guy trying to
make it work. We didn't talk about that first
one. The very, very first one were
the kids. Oh, the.
Workplace accident I have. To ask you, because you're way
more in this, is it true hospitals close over there?
Is that really a thing Like the hospitals closed tonight?
I've heard about this as a rumor.
I don't know but like. I know it's like that in Japan.
Like in Japan there are like, of course they have an emergency
service if it's like very life or death, but apparently they
close. So even though his leg was all
like. Mangled, you know.
Crunched in and mangled. He couldn't go to a doctor.
Is that I know this is so. Is that a thing?
So I think that one had more to do with not I don't think it was
necessarily that the hospital was closed for the night.
I think it was also the fact that they were pressuring him
not to get any emergency service on the on the so they.
Didn't have to, yeah. They were like, you didn't get,
you know, they were pressuring him and kind of gaslighting him
into not getting help. Got it.
OK, trying to silence him and claim that the company holds no
liability, even though there's a ton of evidence on his phone and
in the text messages exchange that this was clearly, you know,
coercion on the part of the company.
Like come into work, fix this thing after hours.
Avoidable. All the things, the people that
showed up at his funeral to manhandle the mom and make her
sign an NDA or pay her off or whatever it was very.
And she was deaf and mute. She.
Was deaf and mute. And at this point the dad is
still alive and the dad speaks on her behalf, like translates
on her behalf because he knows sign language.
When Guddu was younger he was nonverbal and so he that's when
he learned sign language. It's very sad to see how they
basically took advantage of a disabled person.
Yeah, and they tried to get ahead of it on top of that.
So what a good show though. Oh yeah, I think we ended up
talking about every single one of the.
I think so too. I This whole show left a really
strong impression on me. I really liked it.
I'm going to see it again in a few years if yeah, I think four
years is a good amount of time. I.
Circled back several years later, I still I was still a
wailing mess by the end. If you've come this far and we
spoiled the whole show for you, highly recommend going and
watching for yourself. It is a beautiful pandemic show
and that's that's pretty much it.
I had no other thoughts, did you?
I have one more OK, and it's really small and I can't really
expand on it. So do it this what you will.
All right, good. It is like fascination with the
the marine animals, like the Stingrays and stuff.
When he goes. I just don't want yellow to die.
I never want yellow to die. I never want yellow to die over
and over. And I'm like, oh, there's more
yellow again. I don't take from that way.
You will. Yeah.
But like, he gravitated towards that really hard.
Yeah. And yellow seems to be a pretty
big theme throughout the show. I'm not sure what it means, but
if somebody out there watches it and gets something out of it,
you know, run it back, I guess. But that stood out to me, too.
Anyway, sorry. That's it.
That's all I got. OK.
I like it. Miguel, thank you so much for
coming on the show once again. Do you want to plug anything at
all or? Not today.
OK, I'll plug this show. Keep coming back.
Keep listening. Thank you Endow People.
Well, that's been our show. I'm Jessica and this has been
the Tebaki Rambles podcast.