1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:06,600 You don't understand the depth of what it's like to find out at 2 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:13,360 63 years old that you have an entire generations of people 3 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:16,920 from an entirely different part of the world than you thought 4 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:20,760 you came from. That you have no stories of your 5 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:25,080 grandparents, that you have no stories from other than what you 6 00:00:25,080 --> 00:00:28,360 can glean through ancestry and newspapers. 7 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:33,120 You have no anecdotes, you have no personal knowledge. 8 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:37,080 And you'll never be able to get those things unless someone is 9 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:43,320 willing to say, oh, hey, I can help you with that. 10 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:47,720 Obviously it can't be healed. Obviously it can't be fixed. 11 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:51,320 But those little things that you grow up with that I know about 12 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:53,680 my birth certificate, dad's family, right? 13 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:57,640 Those anecdotes about grandma and grandpa and uncle so and so, 14 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:00,880 like I don't have those for my biological family. 15 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:05,000 And that's what I'm missing. That's what I, I guess I'm 16 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:08,080 longing for. I'm longing for someone in that 17 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:13,800 family to kind of say and look at me and go, wow, you really do 18 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:17,240 look like us. We don't have to have dinner. 19 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:21,480 I don't care. I have a family, I'm content, 20 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:26,880 I've got 4 kids, I've got 7 grandkids, I'm busy, you know, 21 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:32,080 tons of friends, tons of connections in this world and 22 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:34,960 don't want a connection with someone who doesn't want one 23 00:01:34,960 --> 00:01:36,360 with me. Anyone. 24 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:41,160 Welcome to DNA Surprises, a podcast that delves into the 25 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:43,840 world of unexpected DNA discoveries. 26 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:50,360 I'm your host, Alexis Oursalt. In July 2021, my life took a 27 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:55,240 surprising turn when I found out that I'm an N P/E, a person who 28 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:58,080 has experienced a non paternal event. 29 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:02,600 In other words, my biological father isn't who I thought he 30 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:05,640 was. Join me as we explore the 31 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:10,720 stories of NP, ES, adoptees and donor conceived people and their 32 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:13,520 families. Get ready to unravel the 33 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:17,680 astonishing journeys that begin with a simple DNA test. 34 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:24,480 This is DNA surprises. A picture is worth 1000 words, 35 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:29,560 and sometimes it's the first clue in solving adna mystery. 36 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:34,320 In this week's episode, Kelly shares how a surprising detail 37 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:38,000 and an old photograph of her parents sparked questions about 38 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:41,560 her paternity. Nearly 4 decades later, she 39 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:45,600 learned the truth about her paternity and her ethnicity. 40 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:49,920 Kelly shares what happened after she made her discovery and how 41 00:02:49,920 --> 00:02:52,720 her surprise has affected her relationship with her mother. 42 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:57,640 She also discusses how she's navigating her best next steps. 43 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:01,160 Thank you for sharing your story, Kelly. 44 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:10,880 My name is Kelly and I am 63 and I am from New York. 45 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:18,320 My DNA surprise story is something that I confirmed in 46 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:26,320 May of 2024 when I was probably in my mid 20s. 47 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:32,040 I was looking at some photo albums and I happened to notice 48 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:38,760 a photo of my mom and who my birth certificate dad is and I 49 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:40,840 looked at the photo for the first time. 50 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:46,280 After seeing it many times I said well I think my mom is 51 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:53,440 pregnant in this photo. The photo says on the site 19 61 52 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:56,480 and I always thought that they were married in 60 and I was 53 00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:00,960 born the year after. So I got a little curious about 54 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:07,360 that and I confronted her. I said it looks like you're 55 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:12,520 pregnant in this photo. She got kind of defensive and 56 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:19,360 she said, well, I am well. And I said, OK, well, not a big 57 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:21,680 deal. You know, that's fine. 58 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:28,200 And I said, but so is dad, my dad. 59 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:34,360 And she gave me a very curt yes, just like that. 60 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:39,520 And I didn't push it after that. I just kind of let that sit. 61 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:45,240 But it was a haunting yes. And I let it go and I had one 62 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:48,640 child at the time. And then life went forward and 63 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:51,080 I'm raising kids and go back to college. 64 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:55,240 And so Fast forward to May of this year, somewhere in the 65 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,200 beginning of this year, I started to have that real 66 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:03,880 hankering to ask her again. And it was very, it was like 67 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:06,520 really sitting on my heart deeply. 68 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:11,600 And she had some knee surgery done, and we were joking around 69 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:16,240 with her roommate, who I think was Jewish. 70 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:19,640 He was celebrating Passover, and Easter was around the corner. 71 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:21,240 And we were talking about ethnicity. 72 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:25,520 And I was feeling really kind of like, pissy and arrogant. 73 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:29,680 And I was like, yeah, well, you know, we're German and we're 74 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:33,480 Irish and supposedly Native American. 75 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:39,640 And, you know, that is if I'm not the mailman's kid, and then, 76 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:43,560 you know, my mom is in the rehab and I'm feeling like really 77 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:46,440 annoyed. So I go home and I'm like, you 78 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:50,520 know what? I'm gonna go on Ancestry 'cause 79 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:53,880 I already had an account for doing research for a family 80 00:05:54,280 --> 00:05:58,640 prior. I noticed a message in my 81 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:02,400 Ancestry account that I hadn't, that hadn't come through, I 82 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:07,200 hadn't noticed in my e-mail. And it was from this long lost 83 00:06:07,280 --> 00:06:11,000 person that I knew. I, I knew his parents and my 84 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:13,200 parents were friends with his parents. 85 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:18,520 And he said, hey, I don't know if you Remember Me, but it turns 86 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:25,920 out that for some reason I'm connected to your family, to my 87 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:28,320 dad's side of the family, my birth certificate, father's side 88 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:30,160 of the family said, oh, interesting. 89 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:34,040 So he said, oh, do you know anything about this or that? 90 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:35,480 I said, of course I remember you. 91 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:37,720 I wrote him back and I said, I'll look into it. 92 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:41,640 I called my mom and I said, hey, so and so got in touch with me 93 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:50,080 and says that he's related to dad's family and his dad was 94 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:53,040 adopted. And she said, oh, well, it was 95 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:55,680 the swing in 60s. So, you know, And I was like, 96 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:59,120 oh, OK, well, I don't know what that has anything to do with 97 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:00,480 that. I'm asking about his dad. 98 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:06,120 Long story short, it really caused me to do a lot of 99 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:08,360 research on my birth certificate, father's family 100 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:10,320 side. And I got a whole bunch of 101 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,480 information and I spent the entire day when I was supposed 102 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:17,680 to be working, researching on ancestry, my birth certificate, 103 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:20,040 father's family. And I was kind of reporting back 104 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:22,520 and forth to her. I had brought her home from the 105 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:26,080 rehab that day. We had a long conversation about 106 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:30,000 her upbringing and her trauma. She had been abandoned when she 107 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:37,040 was 3 by her both of her parents, her dad had left and 108 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:40,560 then her mom abandoned the kids. So it was there was a history of 109 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:44,240 neglect and abandonment for her and her two siblings. 110 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:48,720 So we went all through that. We repeated the story about her 111 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:53,520 finding out that the person that was her dad was being billed as 112 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:57,440 her uncle and talked about that lie. 113 00:07:57,800 --> 00:07:59,640 And this is me not knowing anything. 114 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:05,440 I go back, I do research, and later in the day I said, well, 115 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:08,120 this is what I found out about dad's family, OK? 116 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:10,960 I found this, this, this and this. 117 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:17,240 And I said, and that's all based on if he's really my dad, if I 118 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:24,200 really am a last name omitted. Yeah. 119 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:32,400 I said so am I. I said, 'cause I said I haven't 120 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:36,520 asked you this in a long time. And I said you told me in my 20s 121 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:39,600 when I asked you that he was. So am I. 122 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:43,320 There was quietness, and she said, well, you're Italian. 123 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:57,280 In that moment, it was like this veil came off and I can only 124 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:01,960 describe it as like the ground kind of shifting underneath me. 125 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:05,920 And I had assured her, I said, you know, I would. 126 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:09,440 Of course I'll always love Dad. There's no, there's no 127 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:14,480 judgement. But that truth on that day was, 128 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:17,920 like, groundbreaking. First of all, I'm so sorry 129 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:23,000 because that's a long time to sit with that suspicion and have 130 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:27,640 it dismissed and then get this confirmation later. 131 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:32,480 Was the suspicion something that really bothered you for many 132 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,800 years? Was it troubling at the time? 133 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:39,880 Or, you know, what was your kind of point of view on this idea 134 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:42,400 that maybe your dad wasn't your biological father? 135 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:45,760 So it was more of, at first it was kind of like a funny 136 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:49,760 question. It's like, Gee, I wonder, right? 137 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:53,800 And then it was a just a curiosity thing. 138 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,320 And then I had been told, and I've listened to so many 139 00:09:56,360 --> 00:10:02,000 podcasts and, and this is so very common with children who 140 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,400 are dark eyed with parents who have blue eyes. 141 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:11,840 And I had been told these stories about we had an Indian 142 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:17,160 Princess in our family and there was a picture of her in front of 143 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:20,440 a teepee. And, you know, there was a 144 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:23,560 native tribe here on Long Island. 145 00:10:23,560 --> 00:10:27,720 And, you know, I had this vast like, association with this 146 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:31,480 history. And so a lot of people would 147 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:34,760 say, wow, you look Italian. I'd be like, no, I'm, I'm Irish 148 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:37,640 and I'm German and I'm French and I'm English and I have a 149 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:40,480 little bit of Native American. So it's kind of like this funny 150 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:42,800 play thing, right? But it was a question. 151 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:47,640 And it became a. Deeper question after a 152 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:52,760 conversation with some friends where I had a 2 signs, a science 153 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:54,440 teacher friend and a math teacher friend. 154 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:58,000 And we were just kind of shooting the breeze and the one 155 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:02,680 guy said, wait, so your parents both have blue eyes? 156 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:06,720 And I was yeah. He's like, no, no freaking way. 157 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:10,120 There's no way that you have brown eyes and they have blue 158 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:14,240 eyes. I'll give you $100 to to get 159 00:11:14,680 --> 00:11:17,680 some kind of DNA test. And at then I only thought they 160 00:11:17,680 --> 00:11:21,120 were paternity tests. I didn't think about ancestry. 161 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:23,240 I didn't even have any association with it. 162 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:26,120 So I was like, yeah, yeah, ha, ha. 163 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:29,240 Maybe. I think that was around 2008. 164 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:30,800 OK. So that's kind of before the 165 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:35,360 proliferation of ancestry and those consumer DNA tests. 166 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:38,040 Absolutely. So Fast forward, you know, it's 167 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:42,160 a question, but I'm busy. I get divorced in the meantime. 168 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:45,360 So there's a lot of things going on with that. 169 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:49,440 I'm resettling my life and my birth certificate. 170 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:55,280 Father passed away in 2017. He had a return of aggressive 171 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:59,680 prostate cancer. So he passed and there was kind 172 00:11:59,680 --> 00:12:02,120 of like a little joke. I don't know if it was between 173 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:04,640 my daughter and me. It's kind of like, well, get a 174 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:09,560 hair sample, get something from grandpa, like get his clothes. 175 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:12,480 And I was like, I had no idea how much this costs. 176 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:17,800 I don't know any of all of this. And I had always said, you know, 177 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:19,760 even though it was a question, I was like, well, I would never 178 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:22,040 tell him. If I found out, I would leave 179 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:25,080 it. I would not want him to have 180 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:32,600 that information. So in 2000, I guess in 2018, my 181 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:35,040 other daughter, I have four children. 182 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:36,440 I have three daughters and a son. 183 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:45,320 So my eldest did a 23 ME test and my ex had done an ancestry 184 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:47,280 test. So he's Italian. 185 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:50,800 He found out that he wasn't as Italian as he thought he was, 186 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:52,840 but just all from that area, right? 187 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:56,400 So you find out that you're not just Southern European, you have 188 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:59,120 Eastern European and you're Turkey and you have Armenia 189 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:00,720 mixed in. So he didn't know that. 190 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:07,640 But given that, given those facts, her 23andMe test came 191 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:14,200 back and her percentage of Italian was high for me having 192 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:18,600 the percentage of supposed Northern European that I'm 193 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,320 supposed to have, and I was like, huh, that's a little 194 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:23,320 strange. She's like 55%. 195 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:27,200 How can that be? So this is before you talk to 196 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,400 your mom. Yeah, this is 2018. 197 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,920 This is after my dad has passed and I said I can think. 198 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:35,360 I made it light hearted with her. 199 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:39,600 I was like, hey, you know, so and so did a test. 200 00:13:40,680 --> 00:13:43,840 What percentage of Italian came back higher than it should be? 201 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:46,000 Do we have any Italian people on your side? 202 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:53,600 She's like, I don't know. So again, move forward. 203 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:57,000 And in May it it all came to light. 204 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:02,000 OK. Did she apologize, offer any 205 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:05,840 information at that time? So since I had been doing all 206 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:11,440 that ancestry research that day, I was like, well, you know, who 207 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,840 is it? She's like, oh, I'm not going to 208 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:21,680 say, just do your research. I was like, no, actually, I'm 209 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:25,160 not going to do my research. You're going to give me a name. 210 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:28,920 And I can't do research without a name. 211 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:32,520 So it doesn't work that way. My mom, who is really not a 212 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:37,880 great speller, gives me the name and spells it almost exactly 213 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:42,000 correctly, which is kind of odd for her 'cause she's really not 214 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:47,040 great with that. And I went on Ancestry that 215 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:52,160 night, looked it up, all these names with that last name came 216 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,560 up, and of course I'm trying to whittle it down. 217 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:58,600 And that's all she gave me. So the next morning I called her 218 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:02,920 and she's like, well, what's up? And I was like well I need a 219 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:07,320 little more information. Does person have any siblings? 220 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:10,440 So she told me the name of the sibling and then I knew I had 221 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:13,360 the right family. On the day that I asked her. 222 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:16,000 I said well how did that happen? Does dad know? 223 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:17,880 Did dad know? She's like, well not to my 224 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:24,200 knowledge. I said so how did this happen? 225 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:29,160 She said I was with this person and we had a little fun and I 226 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:36,240 got pregnant and then he wanted me to go to a clinic and have a 227 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:38,920 termination and I didn't know anything about that and I didn't 228 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:44,160 want to do that. And I said, so you just got with 229 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:48,760 dad. He said, Yep, she had known my 230 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:53,960 birth certificate dad since 3rd grade and they had been very 231 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:59,160 good friends. I I know that he was crushing on 232 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:01,560 her probably from the time he met her. 233 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:07,160 I later found out that he would set up dates for her during 234 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:11,240 junior high and high school. She would say to him I like so 235 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:15,120 and so and he would go and make it happen so. 236 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:19,840 She meets your biological father, they have some sort of 237 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:22,360 relationship. She gets pregnant. 238 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:27,200 He does not want her to carry the pregnancy to term. 239 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:34,240 She doesn't want to do that. So then she finds goes to her 240 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:41,520 very dear friend, yes your birth certificate dad, and has him 241 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:45,840 raise you as his own. Now, did he know that she was 242 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:52,480 pregnant when they got together? So she says no, and she says 243 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:55,120 that if he did, he didn't say anything. 244 00:16:55,760 --> 00:17:04,280 However, the story had been that I was, how did she put it? 245 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:12,040 She said I came a month early. OK, so she just fudged the 246 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:16,920 numbers, you know, and so because I was a sizeable baby 247 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:20,560 for coming a month early, I was, you know, 6 lbs something oz 248 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:24,040 normal weight, no complications whatsoever. 249 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,560 So I didn't put that together until the very end. 250 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:31,360 Sure, sure. OK, so she says that your father 251 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:33,840 didn't know, correct. Do. 252 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:37,360 You. Do you feel upon reflection that 253 00:17:37,360 --> 00:17:41,080 maybe he knew or did he treat you any differently or anything 254 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:46,280 growing up? So I kind of feel that he didn't 255 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:49,960 know. He did not treat me differently. 256 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:55,880 They did go on to have my brother two years later, and I 257 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:59,440 think my relationship with him was probably better than my 258 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:02,800 brothers with him. We did a lot of things together. 259 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:06,080 He took me to church. I don't think he treated me any 260 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:10,360 differently than what I would imagine any normal dad treats 261 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:13,440 their child like having been married. 262 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:15,200 He was a good, He was a good dad. 263 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:18,480 He was good to my mom. They were solid. 264 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:21,200 As far as like you know, they were married at 20. 265 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:25,760 They were both 20 years old, so young when he passed. 266 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:29,320 They had been married I think for 56 years. 267 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:35,040 So he was there and he was a good dad. 268 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:39,080 What are you thinking and feeling in this moment as your 269 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:46,200 mom finally tells you the truth and gives you some information 270 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:54,520 to go off of? I felt relief in a sense because 271 00:18:54,520 --> 00:19:03,760 it answered so many questions about my looks in one moment and 272 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:08,040 I felt absolutely betrayed by her. 273 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:20,760 And that betrayal is so deep because I don't judge her or the 274 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,240 actions that she took as a young woman and don't hold that 275 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:28,720 against her. But on reflect on reflecting on 276 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,120 this, one of the things that she had said to me in the 277 00:19:31,120 --> 00:19:33,080 conversation, I said, well, were you going to tell me? 278 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:35,280 And she said I was going to take it to my grave. 279 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:39,400 So you never going to tell me? I was going to leave you a note. 280 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:44,360 Oh, and that I think made it even worse. 281 00:19:44,360 --> 00:19:47,600 It felt more, it felt like it was more of a betrayal. 282 00:19:48,120 --> 00:19:54,000 My interactions with her since regarding this have been she's 283 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,680 been guarded. She's tried to answer questions, 284 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:02,360 but it's more in the terms of like, well, there's nothing I 285 00:20:02,360 --> 00:20:06,680 can do about it. And I'm sorry, but you know, I'm 286 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:10,360 sorry, but it's that qualifier. Yeah. 287 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:17,080 So it has, Gee, the last, I would say seven months have been 288 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:21,040 really, really hard. I check in on her. 289 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:28,280 I do call, I do still keep my commitment that I made to my dad 290 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:31,200 on his deathbed, that I would take care of her. 291 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:39,800 But it is so hard. It is such a feeling of loss of 292 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:42,440 truth. So that has been prevalent in 293 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:45,880 terms of how I feel with her. It was ground shifting. 294 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:48,280 I don't think. I mean, every time I look in the 295 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:50,960 mirror still, it's still this really. 296 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:58,920 Like it's still mind boggling. So to move forward, of course, I 297 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:04,240 did what everyone tell us. I went on Facebook and I started 298 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:09,080 looking up the family. And also on that day I when I 299 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:12,760 had gone on ancestry without even knowing anything, I ordered 300 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:16,520 Adna test that morning before even speaking with her. 301 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:19,920 I was like, let me just do this. I had such a reluctance for so 302 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:21,240 many years. I don't want to spit in the 303 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:22,760 tube. I don't want to share my DNA, 304 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,680 all these, you know, things that everyone kind of struggles with. 305 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:29,080 And I was like, Oh well, I'm a spit in the tube. 306 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,560 Yeah, and then lo and behold, she shares this information. 307 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:36,920 So did you end up sending off your DNA? 308 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:41,400 I not only sent off an ancestry test, but I ordered 23andMe as 309 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:43,760 well. So I ordered both. 310 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:46,600 I let them sit. I let the ancestry sit for about 311 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:50,560 3 weeks. I got the tube from 23andMe and 312 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:53,680 on the same day I spit in both tubes and sent them both off. 313 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:58,880 And so in the meantime, I started kind of building a tree 314 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:05,680 and researching on ancestry, finding all I could about my 315 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:12,720 family, MyHeritage. I did find my biological 316 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:17,680 father's profile. I found my half siblings 317 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:21,200 profiles on Facebook. They didn't want to contact them 318 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:23,960 through there because they felt like that's just so random, you 319 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:25,520 know? I didn't even know what I was 320 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:27,360 going to do. Is he still alive? 321 00:22:27,360 --> 00:22:29,680 Yes, living 3 miles away from. Me. 322 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:35,600 Oh, wow, OK, That that has to be hard. 323 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:37,400 I mean, you hear about the people that they're like, I just 324 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:43,560 want to drive past their house. And I have, because the Internet 325 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,920 is proliferate, it's with information. 326 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:50,160 You can literally find anything. So anyone who thinks they can't 327 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:53,000 be found, it's not even a creep factor anymore. 328 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:56,040 It's just like all you got to do with any one of these search 329 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,640 engines and you get a phone number and an address. 330 00:22:59,360 --> 00:23:02,480 So I mean, I'm not immune to it either. 331 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:09,880 So I did do a lot of research. I did find out about my 332 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,440 grandparents on my biological father's side. 333 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,720 I found out about my half siblings and I toyed with 334 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:20,600 whether I should try to connect with them. 335 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:25,600 I waited until I got the DNA results back, which confirmed. 336 00:23:26,120 --> 00:23:29,880 In the meantime, I I had called my daughter and I said, wait. 337 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:34,080 While I'm waiting for this test, can you bring up the results of 338 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:38,520 your 23 me test? Sure, 'cause she would have 339 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:40,360 family matches. As well. 340 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:45,720 So she brought them up and sure enough, she came up as a match 341 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:49,560 to the people on my biological father's side. 342 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,800 Now he has not. He's not on either one. 343 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:56,520 But she matched to my half sibling and she matched to two 344 00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:01,320 cousins on his side. When you were looking at them on 345 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:06,600 Facebook, what were you able to learn about them as people, and 346 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:11,080 did any of that make you want to reach out to them or not reach 347 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:12,760 out to them? Yeah. 348 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,360 And nothing made me not want to reach out. 349 00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:18,080 There were no red flags. They seemed like, you know, kind 350 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:22,440 of like a normal family. So I got confirmed and I was 351 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,040 like, OK, well, what am I going to do? 352 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,920 Am I going to reach out? I found pictures of my 353 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:32,560 grandparents and my great uncles and all of these people. 354 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,240 And I'm like, OK. So I ended up sending a short 355 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:44,760 note in July to my half sibling and it was just really a hi, I 356 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:50,160 see that we are related because she was named on one of the 357 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:55,240 platforms. I see that we're related and I 358 00:24:55,240 --> 00:25:00,440 have some information as to how that could be looking to see if 359 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:02,640 you're interested in communicating. 360 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:08,320 And I gave her my e-mail address and my phone number and I didn't 361 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:12,960 expect to hear from her. So I was really, really stressed 362 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,080 out. Later on that day, I was talking 363 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:21,040 to my son and he's like, mom, why don't you take one of those 364 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:25,160 edibles that we got? So I was like, you know, you're 365 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:26,840 right. I think I'm going to do that. 366 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:32,120 It's 4:00 in the afternoon and I'm like, you know, I'm going to 367 00:25:32,120 --> 00:25:39,280 go to bed early because I'm really stressed and I take this 368 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,800 and I think it had like THC in it, like a little bit of THC. 369 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:48,200 And having had some prior experience with that, which I, I 370 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:53,200 don't do on a regular basis, I remember that it has like this 371 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:59,280 effect on my brain, but I'm not thinking and I go to sleep at 372 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,400 8:30. I'm woken up out of this dead 373 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:11,400 sleep and there's a male voice and he says Kelly and I was 374 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:17,680 like, yeah, he's like, this is so and so, so and so's husband. 375 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:26,840 I was like, uh oh, hi. So he's like, yeah, we got your 376 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:31,720 message and we kind of want to know what this is about. 377 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,880 Like, you know, my wife can't even talk. 378 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:39,440 She's in shock. So now I'm really having a hard 379 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,640 time because I'm, first of all, I'm woken from a dead sleep. 380 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:47,600 Secondly, I took this thing and I'm like, OK, let me get my mind 381 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:51,160 together. I'm trying to tell him the 382 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:54,360 story. And it's all working well. 383 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,080 And he's like, well, she's just too shocked to speak. 384 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,760 And he's like, well, does my father-in-law know about you? 385 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:05,240 And I said, not to my knowledge. And I gave him the little story 386 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:09,120 that my mom gave me. And I said, you know, they told 387 00:27:09,120 --> 00:27:10,880 me that I looked Native American. 388 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:14,480 And I'm just blurting out these pieces, random pieces of 389 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:18,240 information, knowing that this is not going well. 390 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:23,160 And he said, well, I don't know. He goes, I'm going to have to 391 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:28,640 talk to her about this and we'll see what happens. 392 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,800 I said, well, I can send you an e-mail because I'm thinking, you 393 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,320 know, I can be a little bit more coherent. 394 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,080 So if I send an e-mail with the information, she said no, no, 395 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:41,320 no, don't contact us. I said OK. 396 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:46,360 So I let it go. We hung up and I said, well, I'm 397 00:27:46,360 --> 00:27:49,760 going to respect them. I'm not going to contact them 398 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:54,120 again. And I was devastated by that 399 00:27:54,120 --> 00:27:57,360 phone call. I was devastated because I 400 00:27:57,360 --> 00:28:02,840 couldn't communicate correctly. I was devastated because it was 401 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,920 so short. And I was devastated because he 402 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,360 said in the phone call, well, what are you hoping to get out 403 00:28:09,360 --> 00:28:13,480 of this? I said, I don't want any money 404 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:19,200 and I don't want anything from you, inheritance or anything. 405 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:24,520 I want the history of my family and medical information if I let 406 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:29,880 it be and I dropped it and that was mid-july. 407 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:34,080 Let me tell you what I found out about my biological dad. 408 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:38,960 That's really important to me and then I'll move forward from 409 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:43,920 social media. On my half siblings account, I 410 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:50,800 found out that my biological dad was musical and I'm a musician. 411 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:55,040 I've been musical all my life. It's what my degree is in. 412 00:28:55,320 --> 00:29:00,000 I'm in a band, I'm a music director, I'm a composer. 413 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:04,800 And I never knew where that came from because neither of my 414 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:09,080 parents that I grew up with have a lick of musical talent. 415 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:11,960 Like my mother Can't Sing for beans. 416 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:17,080 And my VCF was just not far behind in that. 417 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:24,880 And when I found out that he had musical talent, I was like, oh, 418 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:32,040 then I found out that my grandfather's brother was 419 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:38,480 training to be an opera singer and had stage fright and never 420 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:42,960 ended up being an opera singer. There's a story with him that I 421 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:48,280 can't repeat because it would give away, but he ended up 422 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:55,920 owning a famous animal and touring the world with this 423 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:59,280 animal. You're learning so much and 424 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,480 you're connecting these dots and it's making so much about you 425 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,360 make sense. What feelings are coming up at 426 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:09,040 that point? Because some people that I speak 427 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:12,200 to, you know, they have this what if, what could have been if 428 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,760 I'd been raised around that. Other people, it's more just 429 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:19,360 validating in terms of better understanding of themselves. 430 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:21,840 How do these revelations sort of hit you? 431 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:22,920 A. Little bit of both. 432 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:27,240 There's a little bit of wonderment of I wonder what it 433 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:31,200 would have been like to even know my biological father, even 434 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:36,520 if they weren't together, but knowing that he was musical, 435 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,560 because I did find out that he sang in a musical group and that 436 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,880 he was a lead singer in a group. Local. 437 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:47,200 Nothing famous, nothing, you know, but kind of like what I 438 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,040 do, you know, I'm in a band and we're local. 439 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:55,000 So there's a little wonderment, like I wonder if we would have 440 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:59,240 sang together. I wonder if there would have 441 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:04,840 been more development of my skill than had happened. 442 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:13,520 And then there's this kind of just, oh, oh, that's where it 443 00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,960 comes from. It's like this deep settling 444 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:21,320 acknowledgement of who I am as a human being. 445 00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:27,600 It's this deep understanding of the real big differences that I 446 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:33,560 started noticing in my adult life between myself and my 447 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:37,880 brother and my parents. Like he's so much like them and 448 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:43,960 I'm so much not like I know I've inherited by nurture things from 449 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:48,880 my birth certificate Dad, right? But I was, I'm so very 450 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,640 different. I'm so different culturally 451 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,120 speaking. I'm so different in terms of 452 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,520 just my body stature. Both my parents are big people. 453 00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:02,840 I'm this tiny little thing. I'm dark, I tan, I have olive 454 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,680 complected skin that everyone tried to tell me about. 455 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:09,440 And I was like, no, no, it's my Native American heritage. 456 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:18,600 Yeah, yeah. So finding out has been, while I 457 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:24,440 feel so betrayed by my mom for holding it, we're taking years 458 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:28,280 away from me that I could have spent kind of figuring out how 459 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,880 to go about this. Like taking these years, like at 460 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:36,280 least have told me when my dad passed, Like I get you kept it a 461 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,360 secret. At least have told me somewhere 462 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:41,520 that's a deep hurt. And I don't know how to 463 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:43,320 reconcile what that hurt right now. 464 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:48,120 That's been a big issue. And it's still so new. 465 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:49,120 It's so. New. 466 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:55,920 It's so new and also you've been contending with it in some way 467 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,720 for a really long time in the back of your mind, so that's a 468 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:01,120 lot. It's a long time. 469 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:11,840 I'm 63, so it's kind of like, wow, overall, the validation and 470 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:15,960 finding out who those people were, at least on the surface, 471 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,840 at least peripherally through Ancestry, through Facebook, 472 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:24,680 through one second Cousin's really oversharing of photos. 473 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:30,840 I was able to get so many photos of my biological father even 474 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:36,560 when he was like when he got married and like a few photos of 475 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:39,320 him in that era. I have nothing of him as a 476 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:42,920 child, so no photos of him as a kid. 477 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:48,240 Photos of aunts and uncles and great aunts and uncles and 478 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,760 cousins. Finding out that I grew up near 479 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:55,240 cousins of cousins and like around the corner from a cousin 480 00:33:55,240 --> 00:34:00,440 of a cousin's family. So there's all these wildly 481 00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:06,280 different feelings that happen. Finding out that my great aunts 482 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:12,719 were educated women. It's just this like core 483 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:17,440 validation of who I am. So that's been good. 484 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:24,719 The kind of emptiness and what I've been struggling with since 485 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:30,840 July since that phone call is. So I made another reach out in 486 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:35,679 September to a cousin. I said let me just not bother 487 00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,760 the sibling. Let me see if I can gather some 488 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:43,120 information. I contacted someone who manages 489 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:48,719 a test on one of the one of the platforms and I said, hey, I'm 490 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,760 related. I see that I'm related to so and 491 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:57,280 so just looking for some information and she wrote back 492 00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,320 to me really quickly. I can see that she's on every 493 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:00,800 day. She has a lot of research. 494 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:07,680 I also happen to know from looking at the DNA tree on one 495 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:16,040 of the platforms that she is my biological father's niece. 496 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:21,040 She gets back to me and she says, well, how old are you? 497 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:26,360 And you know, I said, I know that these are my grandparents 498 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:28,880 from ancestry. And she, you can tell she's 499 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:33,080 like, well, how old are you? And what else do you know what 500 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,360 you adopted? And I said, no, I I'm not 501 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:37,720 adopted. I can give you some information. 502 00:35:37,720 --> 00:35:47,520 So she's clearly pulled in now and I told her my story in a 503 00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:54,760 short form, you know, and then I said so to be forward. 504 00:35:54,760 --> 00:36:01,120 I did contact so and so in July and I had a conversation and 505 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:04,280 there's been no contact since. So she said, well, I'm going to 506 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:06,640 get in touch with so and so and then I'll have to get back to 507 00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,720 you because I can't, you know, overstep. 508 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:18,320 So this was on September 10th and on September 11th I got a 509 00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:25,560 another note from my half sibling and it was so 510 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:33,880 devastating to me because hey I respected the no contact so I 511 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:37,080 didn't reach out to her. She writes to me. 512 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:41,920 I spoke with my husband and now my cousin and both revealed the 513 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:46,520 details you shared with them. Some things my husband told me 514 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,680 from your conversation with him didn't make sense to me. 515 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:55,960 No, no shit Sherlock, because didn't make sense to me either. 516 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,960 See, She goes on to say. I hoped my lack of contact would 517 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,120 have made it clear that we are not interested in connecting 518 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,040 with you. I'm not sure what you hope to 519 00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:13,400 gain from this, and I don't want to be mean or cruel, but having 520 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:17,000 you contact people in my family could ruin lives. 521 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,920 We've had so much devastation in our family and I don't think we 522 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,480 could handle anything else. News like this could cause 523 00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:28,080 irreversible damage. It's much like why your mom most 524 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:31,160 likely didn't tell your dad for all the years they were married. 525 00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:37,000 I pray you had a happy childhood and were are surrounded by 526 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,040 people who love you and whom you love deeply. 527 00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:42,840 I also hope getting the information you needed to 528 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,880 validate what you felt for many years has given you closure. 529 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:50,280 On the other hand, I completed 23andMe many years ago because 530 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,640 it was given to me as a gift. I never intended or considered 531 00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:56,440 attempting to reveal a connection such as ours. 532 00:37:57,840 --> 00:37:59,760 Here's the here's the clincher for me. 533 00:37:59,920 --> 00:38:03,440 This information has caused much stress and anxiety in my life. 534 00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,560 I need to protect my family and I hope you can respect my 535 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,840 request that you stop contacting any of us. 536 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:12,880 I hope confirming your thoughts brings you some peace. 537 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,840 I'm so sorry for any disappointment this may bring 538 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:20,280 you and I hope you understand my challenging position. 539 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,720 You should know there is no history of any abnormal or 540 00:38:23,720 --> 00:38:26,040 severe medical issues to be aware of. 541 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:27,600 I wish you nothing but happiness. 542 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:34,280 Best wishes. In other words, polite polite F 543 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:38,440 you. And I, I do just want to check 544 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:42,280 in, are you beating yourself up about the fact that you had been 545 00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:46,640 asleep and on an edible for that first conversation? 546 00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:51,080 Like do you feel like that impacted their reaction to you 547 00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:53,960 at all or? OK, OK, good 'cause I was. 548 00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:56,440 Like I really don't excuse. I. 549 00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:01,360 Really don't understand. You don't understand the depth 550 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:08,760 of what it's like to find out at 63 years old that you have an 551 00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:14,640 entire generations of people from an entirely different part 552 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:16,400 of the world than you thought you came from. 553 00:39:16,720 --> 00:39:21,640 That you have no stories of your grandparents, that you have no 554 00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:25,960 stories from other than what you can glean through ancestry and 555 00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:30,160 newspapers. You have no anecdotes, you have 556 00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:33,720 no personal knowledge. And you'll never be able to get 557 00:39:33,720 --> 00:39:41,040 those things unless someone is willing to say, oh, hey, I can 558 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:45,040 help you with that. Obviously it can't be healed. 559 00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:47,800 Obviously it can't be fixed. But those little things that you 560 00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:51,880 grow up with that I know about my birth certificate, dad's 561 00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:54,080 family, right? Those anecdotes about grandma 562 00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:58,560 and grandpa and uncle so and so, like I don't have those for my 563 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,240 biological family. And that's what I'm missing. 564 00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:04,480 That's what I, I guess I'm longing for. 565 00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:10,000 I'm longing for someone in that family to kind of say and look 566 00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:13,600 at me and go, wow, you really do look like us. 567 00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:17,600 We don't have to have dinner. I don't care. 568 00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:22,840 I have a family, I'm content, I've got 4 kids, I've got 7 569 00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:27,960 grandkids, I'm busy, you know, tons of friends, tons of 570 00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:32,600 connections in this world and don't want a connection with 571 00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:34,320 someone who doesn't want one with me. 572 00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:37,480 Anyone. Right, right. 573 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:42,080 Has there been any point where you considered going directly to 574 00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:46,200 him? Yeah, yeah, I guess that's my 575 00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:54,240 next big question for myself is what do I do because he's he's 576 00:40:54,240 --> 00:40:58,320 83. Like, how many years are there 577 00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:02,640 and how do I go about it? One of my real Italian friends 578 00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:05,200 said just send him a note. Send him a note. 579 00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:09,120 This is your daughter. Send him a Christmas card. 580 00:41:12,240 --> 00:41:13,640 Yeah, but it's. So complicated. 581 00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:17,120 It's it's not that easy and I'm not confrontational that way. 582 00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:21,440 So it really is like, how do I go about that? 583 00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,400 Do I go about it? What do I sit with? 584 00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:31,120 How do I manage? And I've just let it sit and 585 00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:37,000 there's not a day that one aspect or facet of this, mostly 586 00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:42,360 the letter from her doesn't ring in my head in some way, shape or 587 00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:47,920 form that clear. I don't want to understand. 588 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:52,320 You cause me stress. And I want to say, honey, you 589 00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:57,360 don't understand what it's like to find out, but your, your dad 590 00:41:57,360 --> 00:41:59,080 is not your dad. I love my dad. 591 00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:01,760 I love my birth certificate father. 592 00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:06,560 It doesn't take anything away from my relationship with him. 593 00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:12,880 Nothing. But I, I don't have anyone to 594 00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:16,440 say like, hey, I'm a musician too. 595 00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:21,520 I don't know if I want to reach out. 596 00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:24,240 And that's where I've been stuck now since September. 597 00:42:24,240 --> 00:42:29,400 So that's kind of where I've been than sitting with this. 598 00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:33,520 So I've taken up this distraction of listening to 599 00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:38,720 online apocalyptic survival novels on Audible. 600 00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:44,160 That's a good distraction. Really, to say something, it's 601 00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:48,040 just like, OK, I don't want to think about it, you know? 602 00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:51,240 I just don't want to. I don't want to delve in. 603 00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:55,080 Sometimes I don't even listen to the podcasts because I'll hear 604 00:42:55,080 --> 00:43:00,880 something and the tears will well up and I'll be like, OK, 605 00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:04,040 just let me get my grip and go on. 606 00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,440 Sure. And it's, you know, only you can 607 00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:12,440 know the next best step for yourself because everyone's 608 00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:18,720 situations are so unique. I was going to ask you, while 609 00:43:18,720 --> 00:43:23,600 you're kind of figuring out what you want to do next, what things 610 00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:27,600 are helping you aside from your apocalyptic audiobooks? 611 00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:32,480 I think time is helping somewhat. 612 00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:38,000 In terms of my relationship with my mother, nothing is really 613 00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:42,440 helping except my own willingness to just forge 614 00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:44,480 forward and do the right thing by her. 615 00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:50,440 She's 83, my brother is not really involved in her care, and 616 00:43:51,720 --> 00:43:55,680 I want to honor what I told my dad I would do. 617 00:43:56,280 --> 00:44:00,520 So I do it and I buck up and I call her. 618 00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:04,480 And she's always been kind of on my nerves anyway, so it just 619 00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:08,520 makes it that much harder. But I just pushed through. 620 00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:14,440 We go to the same church where I'm a music director, and so I 621 00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:20,880 have to kind of see her on that level in terms of dealing with 622 00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:25,040 what to do. I'm on several Facebook groups. 623 00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:29,560 I listen to the podcasts. I try to glean helpful hints. 624 00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:34,960 There's another facet to the story which is not really mine 625 00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:38,600 to tell, but the guy who contacted me, who ended up 626 00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:42,400 contacting me, which kind of like pushed me over the research 627 00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:46,120 edge. It turns out that he is related 628 00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:54,240 to my dad and it turns out that he is my birth certificate dad's 629 00:44:54,240 --> 00:45:02,000 son. That was a kind of a shock, the 630 00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:04,320 circumstances of funky and weird. 631 00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:08,520 He is younger than me, so this is a strange thing. 632 00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:12,760 I've welcomed him. He's not related to me 633 00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:18,480 whatsoever. So he's like my brother from 634 00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:21,920 another mother, father now at this point, right? 635 00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:27,320 But he is in his journey a little bit further ahead of me. 636 00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:33,160 And so when he finally decided to tell me how he thought he was 637 00:45:33,240 --> 00:45:35,840 related to me, I said, well, I have something I got to tell you 638 00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:41,840 because I knew by that point. And we found out that we're not 639 00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:45,520 actual siblings. But he's been so supportive and 640 00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:47,960 I have been so supportive to him. 641 00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:50,920 So this has been a really weird thing. 642 00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:56,840 Anything that he's needed to know about my dad, my birth 643 00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,920 certificate dad, I've given. We've met. 644 00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:04,200 He came in with his wife to visit over the summer. 645 00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:11,920 We we went to graveyards and I copied pictures and sent him 646 00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:13,080 things. I have. 647 00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:19,440 We're in constant contact and he's been a real help along the 648 00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:21,720 way. That's amazing because you're on 649 00:46:21,720 --> 00:46:23,640 both sides. Right. 650 00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:26,880 And he's so interested in his history and had done his, all of 651 00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:30,920 his research and found out, you know, oh, that's not true 652 00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:34,520 either. And so he also met with my mom 653 00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:38,120 because as I said, it was a family connection and it's a 654 00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:42,040 funky situation. So she was willing to meet with 655 00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:44,480 him and gave him all the information that she could give 656 00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:48,280 him. Now you, through this discovery, 657 00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:50,720 had a big ethnicity shift. Oh, my goodness. 658 00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:57,200 It sounds like you've grown up around the Italian community. 659 00:46:57,200 --> 00:46:59,400 You mentioned you have Italian friends. 660 00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:03,960 Your biological father doesn't live too far from you, so you're 661 00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:06,160 in New York. Like there's large Italian 662 00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:09,440 communities there. Have you spent any time kind of 663 00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:14,800 diving into that side? So I've done research on the 664 00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:19,080 area that my family's from. I'm really interested in 665 00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:21,680 history. So I'm interested where did 666 00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:24,080 everyone come from? Like what part of Italy? 667 00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:27,640 So done a lot of questioning of my Italian friends and I do have 668 00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:31,920 a lot of Italian friends and my ex was Italian and everyone 669 00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:34,000 thought I was Italian, right? Your. 670 00:47:34,240 --> 00:47:38,040 Kids are Italian, yeah. I but, but I did not identify as 671 00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:44,480 to quote a popular phrase. So it's strange. 672 00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:48,480 I mean, I've been around it so much so I kind of know it. 673 00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:56,600 And I have recipes from my mother-in-law, right? 674 00:47:56,600 --> 00:48:00,760 We were married for 30 years. And so I have a whole history of 675 00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:06,400 that culture, but I haven't delved in except to look into 676 00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:11,000 possibly like what the chances were of me getting an Italian 677 00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:14,640 passport, which now I understand you kind of need to do like you 678 00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:19,640 kind of have have like birth certificates, you need to have 679 00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:22,320 acknowledge paternity. I can get a another kind of 680 00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:25,920 passport and go to Italy. It's, but it would be lovely to 681 00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:28,800 have. So for me, that's a sore point. 682 00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:31,800 For me, it's something that I'm missing out on because I can't 683 00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:36,320 make that connection. I can't just say, hey, can you 684 00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:38,280 just sign this off? I really don't want anything 685 00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:39,840 from you. But I'd love to have an Italian 686 00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:43,800 passport based on the fact that my my grandparents are from 687 00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:45,360 Italy. Yeah. 688 00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:48,600 And I do want to travel there. What advice do you have for a 689 00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:52,040 parent who is keeping adna surprise from their child? 690 00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:58,800 I wholeheartedly, out of this experience, believe that that is 691 00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:05,120 something that should be revealed to a child, especially 692 00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:09,600 when they're an adult. I believe that information, even 693 00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:13,640 if it's given in secret, even if it's told quietly, it should be 694 00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:19,080 told to the individual because once you're an adult, it really 695 00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:25,000 ceases to be the parent's story. It's the child's story and it's 696 00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:28,640 important to have that knowledge. 697 00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:32,600 You can put disclaimers around the story. 698 00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:36,960 You can say please don't go to or This is why I kept it from 699 00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:38,360 you. Maybe there's abuse. 700 00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:44,040 Maybe there's a real legitimate, like really serious reason why 701 00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:47,840 it was kept a secret for safety purposes even. 702 00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:55,120 But once you're beyond that point, at least tell the person 703 00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:57,360 when their birth certificate parent passes. 704 00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:02,800 I mean, find a time. It's not about you anymore once 705 00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:05,400 you're an adult, it's about that person. 706 00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:10,400 And it's so significant and it's so important to have that 707 00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:13,400 validation. And it would have been so 708 00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:17,160 helpful to have even earlier than this time. 709 00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:22,560 That's my advice. And what advice do you have for 710 00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:25,600 someone who just uncovered Adna surprise? 711 00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:32,320 I would say find all the support that you can possibly find. 712 00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:39,840 Relate to all the people. Listen to all the stories of 713 00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:42,760 people who have gone through this. 714 00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:49,000 Cry, feel, be angry, write, journal. 715 00:50:49,240 --> 00:50:51,880 Find a therapist. I haven't found one yet but 716 00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:56,560 that's on my bucket list is to find some kind of a trauma 717 00:50:56,560 --> 00:51:01,680 therapist to process this with as opposed to distracting myself 718 00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:06,360 with maybe novels. But find support. 719 00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:16,640 And I guess I would also say take what's good, take what is 720 00:51:16,720 --> 00:51:23,160 helpful and run with it and treasure it. 721 00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:27,360 And what's not helpful, talk about in therapy. 722 00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:31,480 Find a way to work it out. There's really, there's no 723 00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:34,920 undoing it. So it's really just find as as 724 00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:39,040 much support as possible and be authentic and tell the story. 725 00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:42,160 Tell the story. It's important I'm telling the 726 00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:44,400 story. I mean, I've had second thoughts 727 00:51:44,720 --> 00:51:47,400 about doing the interview several times because the story 728 00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:52,440 hasn't progressed at all. I feel stuck and you're going to 729 00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:55,320 feel stuck at times and reach out to other people maybe who 730 00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:57,920 are stuck. Thank you for sharing that, 731 00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:01,880 Kelly. And I also want to say that I 732 00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:05,280 think it's important that we tell the stories for people that 733 00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:08,200 are in all different places with their journey. 734 00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:10,840 So there's going to be the people who are right at the 735 00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:13,080 beginning. There's going to be people who 736 00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:16,760 might have the quote UN quote happy ending, maybe not a happy 737 00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:17,840 ending. And then there's going to be 738 00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:22,440 people who are mid journey like you are and maybe not sure where 739 00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:25,880 they're going to go next. So I'm really grateful to you 740 00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:31,080 for sharing your story as it is right now, and I wish you so 741 00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:36,920 much luck and just positivity. And I hope for you that you 742 00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:40,920 figure out the next best step, whatever that is, as you move 743 00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:42,680 through. This I so appreciate your 744 00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:46,240 podcast. I so appreciate your questions 745 00:52:46,240 --> 00:52:50,840 and I so appreciate the way you speak with people and how your 746 00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:55,680 interview and how you help pull stories out of people. 747 00:52:55,680 --> 00:53:00,880 And I so appreciate your deep empathy and compassion. 748 00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:07,120 It comes through so clearly. So thank you for that. 749 00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:08,600 Thank you. Appreciate that. 750 00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:10,360 Thank you. Thanks, Alexis. 751 00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:13,560 Thanks again to Kelly for sharing her story. 752 00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:17,160 If you have Adna surprise that you'd like to share, please 753 00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:21,680 submit your story at dnasurprises.com and for early 754 00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:24,560 ad free access to episodes, join me over on 755 00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:28,480 patreon@patreon.com/DNA Surprises. 756 00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:33,120 Until next time. This episode of DNA Surprises 757 00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:38,040 was hosted, produced and edited by me, Alexis Ourselt. 758 00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:42,880 It was mixed and mastered by Josh Ourselt of Siren Recording 759 00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:43,480 Studios.