1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,960 And I think that's the frustrating part too, is just my 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:06,280 mom knowing all of this stuff, right? 3 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:12,680 My mom approached me at my birth certificate, father's funeral 4 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:16,680 and said the most bizarre thing to me, you know, and said she's 5 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:18,960 first of all, never told me she loved me my whole life. 6 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:22,800 And she chooses this to be the time and walks up to me. 7 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:24,680 I mean, we're standing there. It's like open casket still, 8 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:27,160 everything's happening. And she's like, who? 9 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:31,640 You know, Kimmy, I I know we don't get along very well, but I 10 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:34,920 love you and you shouldn't have to be dealing with this. 11 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:39,120 And I was like, well, that's an odd thing to say you. 12 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:42,160 Know like. And so I think for me, a lot of 13 00:00:42,160 --> 00:00:48,480 that just lies within the lies that my mom kept and watching me 14 00:00:48,480 --> 00:00:51,200 struggle with my abandonment issues with my birth certificate 15 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:53,560 father. Like I look at my own daughter 16 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:58,920 and I would never want her to to struggle in life in any way, 17 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:03,800 shape or form, you know, and my mom watched that my entire life. 18 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:07,800 You basically like we, we all know what abandonment issues 19 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:10,120 lead to right leads to dating the wrong men. 20 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:13,400 You're chasing people you shouldn't be chasing, But it 21 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:16,760 kind of just creates these crazy patterns. 22 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:22,080 And and I just wish she had like, watching me go through all 23 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:27,320 of this, like took a step back and and think about herself in 24 00:01:27,320 --> 00:01:30,160 the moment, protecting herself, but protecting me as her child. 25 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:36,000 Welcome to DNA Surprises, a podcast that delves into the 26 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:38,640 world of unexpected DNA discoveries. 27 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:45,160 I'm your host, Alexis ourselves. In July 2021, my life took a 28 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:50,040 surprising turn when I found out that I'm an NPE, a person who 29 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:52,880 has experienced a non paternal event. 30 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:57,400 In other words, my biological father isn't who I thought he 31 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:00,400 was. Join me as we explore the 32 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:05,520 stories of NP, ES, adoptees and donor conceived people and their 33 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:08,280 families. Get ready to unravel the 34 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:12,480 astonishing journeys that begin with a simple DNA test. 35 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:18,760 This is DNA surprises. After three years of making this 36 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:23,280 podcast and speaking to people who've experienced life altering 37 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:29,600 DNA surprises, I've noticed several trends. 1 trend is that 38 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:34,320 oftentimes the biological father is someone a guest knew from 39 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:38,400 childhood. Another trend is a tumultuous 40 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:43,040 relationship with the mother. In this week's episode, Kim 41 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:46,560 shares her emotional journey after discovering a family 42 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:49,080 secret through genealogical research. 43 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:53,720 She discusses the shock and clarity that came with this 44 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:57,320 revelation, her strained relationship with her mother who 45 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:00,960 kept the secret, and the dynamics with her siblings and 46 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:04,880 other family members who knew the truth but were sworn to 47 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:08,960 secrecy. Kim also speaks candidly about 48 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:11,560 her efforts to build a relationship with her biological 49 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:15,640 father, who she knew, and how the presence of this secret 50 00:03:15,640 --> 00:03:17,720 created issues throughout her life. 51 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:23,720 Kim first told her story a few years ago on NPE Stories, hosted 52 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:27,200 by Lily Wood. Her episode is LinkedIn the Show 53 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:30,360 notes. Thank you Kim for sharing your 54 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:35,640 story. I Kim My age is 45 and I'm from 55 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:42,280 Livingston, Mt. I discovered my DNA story about 56 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:47,040 four years ago now, I would say probably May of 2020, so just 57 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:51,080 after lockdown. And the reason I discovered it 58 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:53,760 is just my love for genealogy and history. 59 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:58,680 And so I did a Ancestry DNA test like 2 years before that, but I 60 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:00,360 didn't really do anything with it. 61 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:04,160 I didn't log into Ancestry or do anything with it really. 62 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:08,560 And so when lockdown happened, I decided that I would take it a 63 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:12,280 step further and do some family research. 64 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:17,279 My grandmother on my birth certificate, father's side was 65 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:22,000 adopted and I wanted to try to find the rest of her family. 66 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:26,360 And that's kind of how I ended up down this rabbit hole of my 67 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:30,120 DNA not matching with anyone else with the same last name as 68 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:31,680 me. And I found that to be 69 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,440 surprising. Along the way, what was 70 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:38,000 interesting to me, I told my mom that I was doing this because I, 71 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:40,000 you know, wanted to find my grandmother's family. 72 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:43,800 And she did tell me then that she didn't think it was a good 73 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:48,000 idea and kind of became standoffish with me. 74 00:04:48,280 --> 00:04:50,280 And so I should have known at that time that there is 75 00:04:50,280 --> 00:04:54,440 something more to my DNA story, but I didn't think anything of 76 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:56,680 it. And then over time, I was 77 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:59,920 getting messages from people. I was connecting with these 78 00:04:59,920 --> 00:05:03,800 people, I didn't know their last names, they weren't familiar to 79 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:07,600 me asking how we might be related or where that connection 80 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:11,480 is. And we went over both of our 81 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:16,040 families genealogy and just could not figure it out. 82 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:19,400 And I did bring that up to my mom again and and she told me, 83 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:22,160 you know, I wouldn't want to find out any secrets. 84 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:25,520 I said, I think I'm going to uncover a big secret here. 85 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,680 Like I think your dad had an affair and I was all into it. 86 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:32,600 I was like putting my investigator hat on and ready to 87 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:36,560 dive in. And over time, I did start 88 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:40,400 connecting with a last name that was familiar to me from my 89 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:42,800 hometown that was interesting to me. 90 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:46,120 And I reached out to a person I know with that last name on 91 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:50,960 Facebook, his name Steven. And I sent a message and I said, 92 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:54,960 hey, I, I'm noticing. I did a ancestry DNA test and 93 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:58,920 I'm noticing that I'm matching with people who have the same 94 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:01,680 last name as you. And I said, do you think we're 95 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:05,360 distant cousins or, or do you know how we might be related? 96 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:08,800 And at that point it was about 10 minutes later in my, I got, I 97 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:12,520 received a text from my mom who said she needed to talk to me. 98 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:16,840 So he didn't write me back. And so I ended up going for a 99 00:06:16,840 --> 00:06:18,840 walk. It was during lockdown so I just 100 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:22,680 needed to get outside anyway. So I called my mom and she was, 101 00:06:22,840 --> 00:06:26,640 she started crying immediately and just said you're you're 102 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,280 going to hate me. Steven called me after you 103 00:06:29,280 --> 00:06:34,840 reached out to him and asked me if you weren't aware that he was 104 00:06:34,840 --> 00:06:38,520 your real father. Oh wow. 105 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:44,760 Yeah, and I was just completely blown away. 106 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:49,040 I I think my initial reaction actually, I started laughing 107 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:51,560 because I didn't know. I mean, I mean, I, I think I 108 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:54,360 started laughing for a few reasons, like I didn't really 109 00:06:54,840 --> 00:06:58,560 expect the news, but at the same time it, it checked a lot of 110 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:01,720 boxes for me and it made everything make sense. 111 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:04,800 It sounds like this blindsided you. 112 00:07:04,840 --> 00:07:07,680 You were like, I'm going to find out stuff about my mom. 113 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:10,200 I'm going to, you know, uncover other stuff, and then you find 114 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:12,800 this out. It sounds like hindsight is 2020 115 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:16,240 and things came into focus. What came into focus for you? 116 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:21,120 I think what really brought it, what, what came into focus for 117 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:28,680 me was the fact that I, I'm the youngest of six kids and we all 118 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:33,280 supposedly had the same father and he didn't want anything to 119 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:36,960 do with me growing up. This was somebody that I 120 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:40,000 struggled with. I had abandonment issues over 121 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:43,080 this person. I went to therapy with those 122 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:47,960 abandonment issues, just not understanding why my dad just 123 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:50,440 really didn't take an interest in me after my parents got 124 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:52,680 divorced. And I think that was something 125 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:55,600 that immediately I was like, OK, yeah, that made that makes sense 126 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,880 to me, you know, and, and over time, you know, as I as I 127 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:02,640 learned more, I found out that he knew he didn't know that I 128 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:06,920 wasn't his biological daughter. And so he he did put a lot of 129 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:09,880 distance there with me. And unfortunately, you know, as 130 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:12,040 children, that impacts us greatly. 131 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:14,720 And we take it on into our adulthood, right? 132 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:18,720 I had some clarity around that, and I was able to forgive him 133 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:21,000 entirely. He'd already passed away by this 134 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:25,360 point, but there was a sense of relief on that end, I guess you 135 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:26,640 could say. Yeah. 136 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:33,159 Was your mom apologetic or what was the conversation with her 137 00:08:33,159 --> 00:08:36,679 like? No, she was not. 138 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,000 I mean, she still has yet to apologize. 139 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:46,080 The conversation with her was really around her, how she was 140 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:50,600 in an unhappy relationship and and basically placing blame on 141 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:54,560 my birth certificate father. I think she hit it all these 142 00:08:54,560 --> 00:08:58,480 years and wanted it to remain that way because of the shame, 143 00:08:58,560 --> 00:09:03,720 right, that she was feeling. And ultimately I learned that my 144 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:06,800 biological dad was someone she was in love with and he didn't 145 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:10,240 love her back. They had a brief affair and then 146 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:13,040 she divorced, got divorced from my birth certificate father when 147 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:16,400 I was 11 months old. I think there was probably some 148 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:19,200 conversation. According to my bio dad, there 149 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:22,800 was some conversation after the facts about moving their 150 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:25,120 relationship forward and he just was not. 151 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:27,000 He didn't have the same feelings for her. 152 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:31,280 He did offer to help take care of me but she said no. 153 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:33,760 I think at that point in time, she just decided she was going 154 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:38,000 to keep it a secret forever and ever and take it to the grave 155 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:42,360 with her, you know, But at the same time, she didn't realize 156 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:47,040 there were many people who knew. So over time, you know, with 157 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:50,520 having six siblings, I found out that my oldest three siblings 158 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:54,440 all new, that's news as well. How did you find that out? 159 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:57,880 I found it out by bringing my news to them. 160 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:02,640 Like my discovery, those three oldest siblings just came 161 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:06,600 straightforward with me and said they always knew. 162 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:09,640 They definitely wanted to protect me and the best way they 163 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:11,320 could. I don't think they knew how they 164 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:15,200 were all in high school and younger when this occurred. 165 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:18,640 And one of my brothers ultimately moved out and moved 166 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:24,200 in with their their dad because they were upset with our mom 167 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:26,520 about it. And you know, I think that's 168 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:30,000 something my mom doesn't realize is how much the secret impacted 169 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:33,440 everyone and, and not just her, right. 170 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:36,600 And so overtime they just, they opened up about it to me. 171 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:40,880 My sister told me she found a letter that my mom had written, 172 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:45,240 my bio dad laying it all out there and she confronted, I 173 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:47,920 think she, my sister was 16 at the time and she confronted my 174 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:49,960 mom and my mom swore her to secrecy. 175 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,240 And that's something you know, I brought up to my mom and my mom 176 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:56,920 doesn't remember that or so she says, right? 177 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:00,240 I'm sure you've heard this interviewing. 178 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:04,720 The number of people you have is the mothers in the situation. 179 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:08,600 A lot of them can be narcissistic or you uncover the 180 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:10,360 true narcissism that exists there. 181 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:12,960 And that's something that I've learned about my mom. 182 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,680 I always knew it to some extent, but once the secret was 183 00:11:16,680 --> 00:11:21,200 uncovered, it was just, it became more exhausting to have 184 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:24,400 conversations with her about it because she made it all about 185 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:27,600 her and she's the victim in this. 186 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:30,880 I don't think I'm ever going to get an apology and I don't know 187 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:34,360 that I need one. What do you do to get to that 188 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:38,560 place of closure? I started reading I I found this 189 00:11:38,560 --> 00:11:41,560 great book that was called I think it's Adult Children of 190 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,920 Emotionally Immature Parents. It's a good book. 191 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:45,880 And I don't know if you've heard of that. 192 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:49,400 Yeah. And it it just really helped me 193 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:53,640 understand my mom being this complex character that she is. 194 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:58,600 My relationship is not great with my mom. 195 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:03,400 I'm just in a better place mentally where I'm I'm not 196 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:06,320 questioning everyday. Like when I first discovered it 197 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,120 was constantly on my brain. I feel like, and wanting to get 198 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:11,480 to the bottom of it with her. Like I was really like, we're 199 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:15,680 going to talk about this, you know, and she just, she wasn't 200 00:12:15,680 --> 00:12:18,560 going to and she wasn't going to take ownership of her actions. 201 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,840 When you're learning about narcissistic parents overtime, 202 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:24,400 like you realize like you're just not going to get that 203 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:27,280 apology that you're hoping for. So. 204 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:29,480 Yeah. I just been able to cope with it 205 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:31,720 that way. And it's also just knowing that 206 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:34,040 I'm not going to has helped me create better boundaries with 207 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:37,520 her because I know what kind of person I am and I know what kind 208 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:40,600 of person she is. People always say this, right? 209 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:45,920 Like your mom's still your mom, you know, or like, wow, I can't 210 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:47,560 imagine what she went through back then. 211 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:50,280 You know, I get that a lot from people, which is interesting. 212 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:54,400 In those days, you know, divorce wasn't a thing or you know, it. 213 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:57,120 It's just honestly helped me create boundaries with her that 214 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:00,520 I needed to probably create long before I had this discovery. 215 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:02,440 Even growing up, she was not nice to me. 216 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:06,680 And like we talked about in the beginning here, finding this out 217 00:13:06,680 --> 00:13:09,720 just, you know, checking some boxes for me, that was one of 218 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:12,280 them. My mom would say incredibly mean 219 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:16,960 things to me, like how I wasn't wanted or, you know, just very 220 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:21,960 weird jealousy things with me my entire life and never happy for 221 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:24,360 me, right? Like it's almost like she didn't 222 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:27,560 want to see me succeed in life. So once you find out something 223 00:13:27,560 --> 00:13:30,200 like this, and if you're going through struggles with your mom 224 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:33,960 like that, you know, finding out a discovery like this can be 225 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:38,120 pretty eye opening to why they treated you so, so poorly 226 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:41,200 growing up. What does your relationship look 227 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:43,320 like with your mom? Now you've talked about 228 00:13:43,560 --> 00:13:47,080 boundaries. Do you keep her like arm's 229 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:49,080 length? Do you talk to her often? 230 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:50,920 What does your relationship look like? 231 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:55,720 Yeah, it's it's then a bit difficult just because my 232 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:59,760 stepdad had a stroke last year and, and ultimately, you know, I 233 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:04,080 ended up being someone who is taking care of him and getting 234 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:06,120 him set up in Hospice and that sort of thing. 235 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:10,000 So, you know, I had to talk to my mom quite a bit obviously 236 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:13,640 during all of that. And it wasn't easy because she 237 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:16,720 just is not an easy person. That means she's not an even 238 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:21,280 feel like she's she's either at a zero or she's at a 85 and 239 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:24,240 especially under something so stressful like that. 240 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:28,520 And so I think for me, it's just she wants a reaction. 241 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:32,920 A lot of the time from any of her texts, she feels like I 242 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:35,520 haven't reached out and well, you know, I'll get a mean text. 243 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:37,040 Well, I just don't text back, right. 244 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:41,400 I don't play into whatever tactic it is that she's trying 245 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:44,720 to use to get my attention and she'll do that. 246 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:47,880 I mean, she posts passive aggressive things on Facebook. 247 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:50,320 And so I, for me, it's just not responding. 248 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:53,920 And I'll give I, I just won't call her for weeks at a time and 249 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:57,200 she's behaving that way and, and she kind of will come around and 250 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:59,720 be like, you're right, I haven't been in the best mindset. 251 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:04,840 But at the same time, she's elderly and I feel like as the 252 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:10,320 youngest, I'm, I'm stepping up a lot just to, to make sure she's 253 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:12,960 taken care of. So, you know, though I have 254 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:16,120 those boundaries, it is difficult, yeah, to manage at 255 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:18,440 times. But, you know, I think just 256 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:21,640 protecting your peace means so much in these situations. 257 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:24,680 Because she hasn't apologized. Like, I don't feel like I owe 258 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:27,080 her anything. The things that I'm doing for 259 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:31,280 her are just because of the person I am, and I want to be 260 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:34,160 doing them right. Thank you for for talking about 261 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:35,920 that because it's really important. 262 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:39,800 And also just something I feel like we're just recommending 263 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,760 this book to everyone to read, but you know, they talk about 264 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:46,240 how, you know, emotionally if people have something traumatic 265 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:50,080 in their life, right happen, that's typically like around the 266 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:53,480 time that they stop maturing emotionally wise, right? 267 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:57,240 And so my mom, when I'm dealing with her it, it truly is like 268 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,800 she's a 17 year old petty high school girl. 269 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:04,720 It's not a easy conversation when you want to have some depth 270 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:07,320 to it. Because she feels attacked and 271 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:11,080 she's just not capable emotionally or her maturity 272 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:13,480 level is just not there still at 80 years old, right? 273 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:18,200 And that's the hardest part is because I really like at first, 274 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:21,720 I really just wanted to like, sit down and hash this out and 275 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:23,760 like talk about everything. Like I wanted to know 276 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:25,720 everything. And she just wasn't capable of 277 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:27,440 doing that and still still isn't. 278 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:30,720 I mean, if I were to talk about it with her today, I mean, she's 279 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:34,080 going to say the same thing and she's going to blame my birth 280 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:38,720 certificate father for cheating on her all those years, even 281 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:40,680 though, you know, she obviously cheated as well. 282 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:43,240 But she was not the bad guy in the situation. 283 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:46,000 It was him. And that's honestly all I get. 284 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:50,600 So it's not an apology. It's just so and so pushed me to 285 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:52,920 this. But like keeping it a secret, 286 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:56,960 you know, like I, I truly don't think she understands that 287 00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:01,160 impact because it's also I'm from a smaller town. 288 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:05,440 It gets even better, right, Because my bio dad ended up 289 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:09,800 marrying one of her best friends later in life who when my mom 290 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:13,920 retired, she went and worked at her jewelry store alongside with 291 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:16,880 her and her brother was my godfather. 292 00:17:17,319 --> 00:17:19,800 And I found out like all those people knew, right? 293 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:24,040 But like the fact that my mom like there's to me and now that 294 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:27,599 I'm when I look back on it, I find it so odd that she was so 295 00:17:27,599 --> 00:17:30,720 close to my bio dad's wife and like helped her through. 296 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:33,520 I mean she had pancreatic cancer and ended up passing away. 297 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:38,080 I was like there for her the whole time and around my bio dad 298 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:40,680 all the time. And I just think how bizarre 299 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:44,200 that like, that was happening, but like, you knew the like, 300 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:46,760 this person was my biological dad. 301 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:49,840 Yeah. And I remember him being around 302 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:53,560 my whole life. What has happened there with the 303 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:56,600 with the new found family? It's been a few years now. 304 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:00,880 We met up in person once and it was, you know, that was great. 305 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:06,280 Feel like I'm kind of the one like probably trying to to build 306 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:08,520 a relationship or keep a relationship moving. 307 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:12,160 He does like reach out to me on holidays, messages me. 308 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:15,800 He wants me to call him dad. When we first met up in person, 309 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:17,800 you know, he did tell me. It's like, well, I want you to 310 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:22,520 know that I love you, you know, and I think this is what I tell 311 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:25,680 people about that. It's like, it's almost like when 312 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:27,680 you're on a first date and you're just getting love bombed 313 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:29,760 by someone. Yeah, yeah. 314 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:31,640 You're like, whoa, like slow down, right? 315 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:37,320 Like it's like, you know, but. And he had known your whole life 316 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:39,520 is. He had known my whole life. 317 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:46,320 And so for him, maybe it's like this like pent up excitement. 318 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:50,840 I but I'm curious, you know, what did he really have to say 319 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,680 about the fact that he did know for so long? 320 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:56,440 I know obviously it didn't work out with your mom. 321 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:58,440 He wasn't interested in a relationship there. 322 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:04,920 But what did he have to say about his absence as a father in 323 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:07,640 your life? Ever since he got back from 324 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:11,120 Vietnam, he told me he was not in a good place at that time 325 00:19:11,120 --> 00:19:14,280 when when this affair happened with my mom because he worked 326 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:17,320 with my birth certificate father and they were friends. 327 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,440 And he just keeps saying, you know, I was not a good person 328 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:23,280 back then. He said that I did, I did offer 329 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:27,360 to be there for you and to financially, you know, take care 330 00:19:27,360 --> 00:19:31,520 of you and your mom just said no, my birth certificate father 331 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:35,840 was just going to take me on his his own, which probably because 332 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:39,040 she didn't tell him, but you know, I think he probably would 333 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:41,760 have had my mom not wanted to keep it a secret. 334 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:43,880 But the whole reason behind that was she just didn't want to be 335 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:45,880 outed. I don't think she realized 336 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:47,720 though, my birth certificate father did know. 337 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:51,600 I mean, he had a vasectomy after my, my last brother, who's like 338 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:53,160 2 year, a year and a half older than me. 339 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:56,280 And you know, my mom said, oh, the doctor said it can happen. 340 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,960 And I was with my birth certificate father when he was 341 00:19:59,960 --> 00:20:03,080 passing away in Hospice. And you know, at this time 342 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:07,560 didn't know any of this, but he did try telling me something 343 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:11,360 when he was at that time was inveritable and could barely 344 00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:13,760 talk. But he pulled me to him and was 345 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,160 trying to say something. And and the siblings that knew, 346 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:18,920 you know, later now in life have told me. 347 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:21,400 That they knew he was trying to tell me the truth. 348 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:29,600 And so I don't know, I, I, I wish my mom would have let my 349 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:34,280 bio dad step in and try to be a part of my life because I think 350 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:38,880 it just would have saved a lot of heartache in the future for, 351 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:41,640 for not only myself, but, you know, my birth certificate 352 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:46,080 father and, and my siblings and, and I, you know, again, don't 353 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,320 think she realized the impact that I had on, on so many. 354 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:51,840 But you know, when I first met up with my bio dad, he did ask 355 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:53,600 me. He was like, what do you want 356 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:54,920 from me? I don't have any money. 357 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:57,280 Oh, interesting. Yeah. 358 00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:00,640 And I was like, no, that's not Yeah, that's not at all. 359 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:02,640 Why? And again, you know, once you 360 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:06,080 read that book, I can look at him too and see he definitely 361 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:09,200 went through his traumatic experience, whether it was 362 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:11,920 Vietnam. And so he has like the same 363 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:15,480 maturity level as my mom, which is really interesting. 364 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:20,640 Where are things at a few years in? 365 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:24,080 Because I think a lot of people, they have that initial burst of 366 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:26,800 excitement you kind of talked about like maybe some love 367 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,840 bombing kind of thing going on where it's just super, I want to 368 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:34,280 get to know you and let's make up for all the lost time and, 369 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:37,160 and all of that. And then now you're a few years 370 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:40,120 out. What does it look like today? 371 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:47,040 Today it just looks like just a lot of Facebook messages and, 372 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,360 you know, just banter on Facebook. 373 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:56,160 I've reached out to aunts and uncles, so his siblings who I'm 374 00:21:56,160 --> 00:22:00,160 connecting with, and I'm actually planning to travel to 375 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,480 Arizona to see one of his brothers this next year. 376 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,680 He's been great. He's been so open about it and 377 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:10,720 I'm going to go meet them. So we just had that 378 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:13,200 conversation. So there's no plans set in 379 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,840 place, but we're really hoping to get together. 380 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,960 But you know, you still you more in like missing out on not 381 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:24,320 knowing who your true family is, you know, biological family. 382 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,000 And I do think that's something that I've dealt with. 383 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:30,720 I don't know if you had a similar situation or if you're 384 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,960 connected with all of your, your bio family now, but I think you 385 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:38,160 just wonder like, who am I? You know, who do I look like? 386 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:40,040 And that's something I still do, right? 387 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:44,360 Like I constantly want to dive through Facebook photos of his 388 00:22:44,360 --> 00:22:47,320 siblings and just see if I can see any old pictures of like, my 389 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:49,000 grandma I never got to meet, you know? 390 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:51,160 So it's pretty. It's really interesting. 391 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,360 And I never, I don't look like any of my siblings. 392 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:58,000 And so it makes sense. Yeah, That makes sense. 393 00:22:58,400 --> 00:22:59,200 No, too. So. 394 00:22:59,960 --> 00:23:04,120 Speaking of your siblings, I mean they carry that burden. 395 00:23:04,120 --> 00:23:08,080 They carry the weight of the secret for a very long time and 396 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:11,400 and you've talked about how it it affected them having to keep 397 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:14,240 that secret to the point where some of them didn't even want to 398 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,600 really be around your mom for a period of time. 399 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:21,720 What is your relationship like with them now and what is the 400 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:26,360 family dynamic like with your mom and them and everyone? 401 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:31,440 With my siblings, for the most part, we all get along really 402 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:32,840 well. Definitely. 403 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,840 I think it brought us closer in ways. 404 00:23:36,360 --> 00:23:40,400 One particular sibling who when I told him I was doing the 405 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,680 ancestry test, like, he did say a few things that made me think, 406 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:45,400 like, he would always just tell me. 407 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:47,680 He's like, I just want you to know, like, you belong here. 408 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,120 Like you belong here. And he would always say that to 409 00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:52,160 me. And I was like, well, thank you, 410 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:55,600 You know, like, thank you. I am glad I'm here. 411 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,120 You know, he knew I was going to find out someday. 412 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:03,960 Do I wish he told me directly? Probably, but at the same time I 413 00:24:04,360 --> 00:24:07,680 learned how much it impacted him because he hated my mom for what 414 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,880 she did and cheating on his dad, right. 415 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:14,640 He was very, very close to my birth certificate father and I 416 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:18,960 think it he definitely had some mom issues and still does to 417 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:22,320 some extent with that and my siblings too. 418 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:26,320 I mean, my sister, you know, I think for her to be sworn to 419 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:29,360 secrecy at 16, you know, she got married very early. 420 00:24:29,360 --> 00:24:31,840 She was married and moved out of the house by 18 because she said 421 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:36,080 it was just too toxic to be there with my mom. 422 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:40,880 But it sounded like my mom after that became quite a partier and 423 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,960 wood forest my sister to babysit my brother and I. 424 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:48,120 And so, you know, for her to have that knowledge and then see 425 00:24:48,120 --> 00:24:51,360 my mom just kind of like partying all the time and not 426 00:24:51,360 --> 00:24:55,840 really taking an interest and, and me or my next closest 427 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,400 sibling was really frustrating for her. 428 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,680 And then when I end ultimately ended up having my own daughter. 429 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,800 And my sister told me at that time, she she thought about 430 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,400 talking to my mom and telling her that she needed to tell me 431 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:11,120 the truth. My daughter has my last name now 432 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:13,080 because I raised her as a single mom. 433 00:25:13,120 --> 00:25:16,320 And that last name that we carry is my birth certificate 434 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:18,440 father's. And so I think my sister was 435 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,320 like hoping my mom would be truthful at that time and she 436 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,760 she didn't say anything. How do you feel about that 437 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:30,320 carrying that name and and have you felt any like desire to 438 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,320 correct your birth certificate or your name or anything like 439 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,520 that? Yeah, I have. 440 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,480 I mean, my daughter and I both joke about it like coming up 441 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,280 with their own new last name and and it is something I think 442 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:45,120 about, you know, I don't know that I want to change it to my 443 00:25:45,120 --> 00:25:48,120 bio dads either. I don't know how I feel about 444 00:25:48,120 --> 00:25:50,360 that. But it does feel weird to carry 445 00:25:50,360 --> 00:25:52,720 a name of someone who isn't. Wasn't your father. 446 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,680 And then I found out most of his family knew too, right? 447 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,040 Yeah. Can can you talk about that 448 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,200 feeling? You know, I've talked to a few 449 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:06,200 people on the podcast now who have had to reckon with the idea 450 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,880 that basically everyone in their lives knew except them. 451 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,840 What did that feel like and how did that affect you? 452 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,400 I don't live in Livingston anymore, but you know, I live 453 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:22,480 like 25 miles away and I, I don't like going back to my 454 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,160 hometown. There's something about it with 455 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:29,520 all, you know, all of the people finding out that, that knew 456 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:34,080 it's, it's hard to discover that you're a secret that you didn't 457 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:38,320 even know about, right? Like you kind of just go through 458 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,680 your past and in your mind. It's just so interesting. 459 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,120 It's almost like an out of body experience, right? 460 00:26:45,120 --> 00:26:46,680 Yeah. You're kind of just like, step 461 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:48,720 away from it all. And you're just like, so weird 462 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:52,760 that I was like the secret that most everyone knew about. 463 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:55,480 And I was like, you. You almost feel like the butt of 464 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:56,720 a joke. Yeah. 465 00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:01,080 And if also, you know, now that you know, now that people know 466 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,080 or I know they know on both sides. 467 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,640 I get approached like at my stepfather's funeral a few 468 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,000 months ago, some of the people on my birth certificate, 469 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:13,400 father's side, you know, cousins pulled me aside and. 470 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,520 And they're like, we understand, you know, now. 471 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,040 And I just want you to know, like you'll always be your 472 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:19,440 cousin. You're always part of our 473 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,640 family. And that to me almost is like, I 474 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,000 I would rather them not approach me. 475 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:27,160 Yeah. And say that. 476 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:31,600 Do you know what I mean? Because it's just like a. 477 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,200 Reminder that they knew and you didn't or something. 478 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:39,160 It is, it is. And, and also like it's not that 479 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:44,640 easy to just, I think when I first started telling people my 480 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:46,880 story, they were like, oh, well, it's not a big deal. 481 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,560 Like you'll always be, I'm not going to say my last name 482 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:54,600 because, you know, for privacy purposes, you know, I think 483 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:58,160 people say that a lot to, to those who are in the situation 484 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:03,000 is, oh, well, you're always going to be their sister, you're 485 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,640 always going to be their cousin, you're always going to be their 486 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,040 daughter or whatever the case may be. 487 00:28:08,360 --> 00:28:12,600 And it's easier said than done when you discover this. 488 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,560 I'm sure over time it gets better and it has for me. 489 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:21,360 I just don't, I don't think people understand that it is all 490 00:28:21,360 --> 00:28:24,760 different now, right? Like you go back and question 491 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:29,680 your entire life and your entire personality and who you are as a 492 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:33,960 person. And it's just it's it's not as 493 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,280 easy, I don't know, to just move forward and act like nothing 494 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:38,520 happened. But you're and you're still 495 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:41,440 going to be family with everyone who you thought was your family, 496 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:43,480 right? There's more to it. 497 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,480 Yeah. How would you compare the first 498 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:51,520 time you went on a podcast with with Lily and you shared your 499 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,960 story and it was much more fresh at that time. 500 00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:00,840 Now you've had some space, What would you say is is different or 501 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,160 how are you doing compared to that time? 502 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:09,640 I've just kind of now come to terms with the fact that, you 503 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,440 know, my mom's not going to ever apologize to me. 504 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:17,160 So I would say in that way, like things have gotten better, but 505 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,400 I, I feel like I went from 1 abandonment issue to another, 506 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,760 right? Because I feel like I'm the one 507 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:29,080 trying to create a relationship with my bio dad. 508 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,920 And though he is like engaging and what not, I mean he's he's 509 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,160 older too, so and he's not very healthy. 510 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,360 And so I think that's part of not being able to get together. 511 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,560 But I know he goes and he plays bingo. 512 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:44,560 My, my daughter plays bingo every Wednesday in her hometown. 513 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,960 And he does too. And they sit literally like 514 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:53,040 back-to-back and she's super shy anyways, but like he is too. 515 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:55,800 And he's never approached her. Where to me, it's like that 516 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,760 could be a easy way to build a relationship. 517 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,080 I mean, seeing each other as often as they do. 518 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:06,920 And so, you know, I think I was hoping for for more out of a 519 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,280 relationship there. And, and that's OK. 520 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,360 I mean, it's probably not going to happen. 521 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:17,320 I'd like to see old pictures of family members. 522 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:19,960 Like I said, I love history and genealogy. 523 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:23,200 So a lot of what I've been doing is just like finding out stuff 524 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:27,080 on my own on that side of the family, you know, utilizing 525 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,160 ancestry and then his his siblings, right? 526 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:35,960 I think probably back when I was on Lily's podcast, I thought I 527 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:40,000 would be further along in a relationship with him at this 528 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:41,600 point. Do you feel like you've made 529 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:46,120 peace with the lack of connection there, or is it 530 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:47,760 something that you're still hoping for? 531 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:53,040 I think I've made peace with it. And I think a lot of that comes 532 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:57,200 from, you know, my stepdad was basic, was my dad. 533 00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,000 He married my mom when I was 2. I don't even know if he knows 534 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:04,440 this DNA story. I have a feeling he doesn't or 535 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,520 never did because like I said, my mom didn't want anyone to 536 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,280 know. But again, I don't think he 537 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,440 would have told me, but he was he was so special to me and you 538 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:16,400 know, is with him at the end. And you know, we just we had 539 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:20,400 some special time together. But I think just realizing who's 540 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:24,080 important in your life versus trying to chase that false hope, 541 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,280 I guess having that false hope that you're going to reconnect 542 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:30,600 with your bio dad and just realizing like my stepdad was my 543 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:32,040 dad. I think that's helped me 544 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,280 immensely and having that special bond with him. 545 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,240 Yeah. It it definitely has brought me 546 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:42,760 some peace. So many of our stories have 547 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:47,360 these unanswered questions, questions we will never be able 548 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,840 to ask or maybe trust the answers for. 549 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:55,280 Do you have any of those as it relates to your story? 550 00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:59,320 I'm sure I do. I do question why my bio dad 551 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,800 knowing me as long as he did my entire life, seeing me grow up 552 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,880 in front of him, why he didn't make a bigger effort. 553 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:11,280 And you know, his his wife, who I knew very well, he told me 554 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:13,880 that she knew and that was it was a point of contention in 555 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,880 their marriage. And, you know, I just, I do kind 556 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:21,040 of wish that like somebody just spoke up and I grieve not 557 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:26,760 needing, you know, a grandma who sounds amazing, you know, and I 558 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:30,480 think there's grief there in that because she was alive up 559 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,960 until I was, I think she passed away when I was in my late 20s. 560 00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:38,240 And for my daughter, you know, and I think one of the other 561 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,600 biggest things, right, is our genetic health. 562 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:45,520 My, my birth certificate father passed away from cancer. 563 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:49,000 And there's a lot of cancer on his side of the family. 564 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,160 And my sister's currently battling cancer, sadly right 565 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:53,600 now. And every time I went to the 566 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:58,880 doctor, like it was on my chart all over just my cancer history, 567 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:02,880 but that wasn't my history. So when I found out my bio dad's 568 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:07,040 history, there's no cancer on his side, you know. 569 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:12,280 And so, you know, I think just for those purposes too, for for 570 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:13,920 people to know their genetic health. 571 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:16,640 And now I understand like some of my own health issues right 572 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,960 around like really arthritis and things like that, like 573 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:21,840 definitely coming from my bio dad. 574 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:26,400 And I think that's the frustrating part too, is just my 575 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,680 mom knowing all of this stuff, right? 576 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:35,040 My mom approached me at my birth certificate, father's funeral 577 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:39,080 and said the most bizarre thing to me, you know, and said she's 578 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,360 first of all, never told me she loved me my whole life. 579 00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:45,200 And she chooses this to be the time and walks up to me. 580 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,080 I mean, we're standing there. It's like open casket still, 581 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:49,560 everything's happening. And she's like, who? 582 00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:54,040 You know, Kimmy, I, I know we don't get along very well, but I 583 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,280 love you and you shouldn't have to be dealing with this. 584 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:02,120 And I was like, well, that's an odd thing to say, you know, 585 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:07,400 like, and so I think for me, a lot of that just lies within the 586 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:11,600 lies that my mom kept and watching me struggle with my 587 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,080 abandonment issues with my birth certificate father. 588 00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:17,960 Like I look at my own daughter and I would never want her to, 589 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:23,560 to struggle in life in any way, shape or form, you know, and my 590 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:29,199 mom watched that my entire life. Me basically, like we we all 591 00:34:29,199 --> 00:34:31,719 know what abandonment issues lead to right leads to dating 592 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,679 the wrong men. You're chasing people you 593 00:34:34,679 --> 00:34:38,560 shouldn't be chasing, but it kind of just creates these crazy 594 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:41,400 patterns. And and I just wish she had 595 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:46,520 like, watching me go through all of this, like took a step back 596 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:51,040 and then think about herself in the moment, protecting herself, 597 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,719 but protecting me as her child, you know? 598 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:59,320 Yeah, What advice do you have for a parent who may be keeping 599 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:04,200 adna surprise from their child? As hard as it is probably for 600 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,560 them to to tell the truth, it's the best thing they can do for 601 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:09,640 their their children and their loved ones. 602 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,720 I know it's hard to feel that shame or, or let that shame out. 603 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,360 And also like I have a feeling that telling the truth is going 604 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,760 to set them free. So that's my that's my advice 605 00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,560 there. And what advice do you have for 606 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:25,720 someone who just uncovered Adna surprise? 607 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:29,120 Yeah, it's OK to to feel the feelings and and you're probably 608 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:33,640 going to feel like you're in an out of body experience a little 609 00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:35,560 bit like you're not yourself, you don't know who you are. 610 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:39,560 There's like an identity shift and I experienced that on many 611 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:41,840 levels. It's just a reminder like to, 612 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:45,480 to, it's OK to feel the feelings that you're feeling because it 613 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:49,600 is complicated and it's, it's scary and it's hurtful and, and 614 00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,920 it's all those things. But again, just leaning in on, 615 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:57,040 you know, the MPE network that exists and connecting with 616 00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,760 people and just having conversations around it. 617 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,640 Incredibly helpful for moving forward. 618 00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:07,840 Kim, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today. 619 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,560 I really appreciate you sharing your story. 620 00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:14,800 And I will be sure to link your NPE Stories episode in the show 621 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:18,600 notes for people to listen to. But it's so good to kind of 622 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,280 check in with people and hear how they're doing after a few 623 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,000 years. So I hope that things continue 624 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:27,200 moving in a positive direction and that you keep those 625 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:30,000 boundaries going. And I just wish you the best. 626 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:33,360 Thank you so much, Alexis. It was great to meet with you 627 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:35,960 today. And you know, thanks for doing 628 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,720 this again, holding space for others to tell their story. 629 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:41,000 Thanks again to Kim for sharing her story. 630 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,400 If you have Adna Surprise that you'd like to share, please 631 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,440 submit your story at dnasurprises.com. 632 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:52,480 Until next time, this episode of DNA Surprises was hosted, 633 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:56,480 produced and edited by me, Alexis Ourselt. 634 00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:01,320 It was mixed and mastered by Josh Ourselt of Siren Recording 635 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:02,040 Studios.