1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,560 It is such an emotional roller coaster, for lack of a better 2 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:06,040 phrase. I always think with every 3 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:12,320 rejection that like I get better at accepting it until the next 4 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,520 one comes and I'm like, Dang it. My husband tells me now like 5 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:18,520 manager expectations. Like anytime something happens, 6 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:22,840 he's like manager expectations. Like I'm trying and I think I'm 7 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:26,120 doing a good job at it until, you know, until something 8 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:27,840 happens. And then it's just a little bit. 9 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:32,280 It's a little bit heartbreaking. We're always told like our moms 10 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:37,280 are supposed to be the people that love us the most and would 11 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:42,840 do anything for us. And I clearly don't have that 12 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:46,120 because my mom can't even be honest with me. 13 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:53,520 So to expect anything more from strangers, this is kind of crazy 14 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:57,800 to me. But somehow, even as even as I 15 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:00,400 always say I'm a pessimist, I'm clearly not because I'm always 16 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:02,360 so optimistic that somebody's going to help. 17 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:06,800 Welcome to DNA Surprises, a podcast that delves into the 18 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:09,480 world of unexpected DNA discoveries. 19 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:15,960 I'm your host, Alexis ourselves. In July 2021, my life took a 20 00:01:15,960 --> 00:01:20,880 surprising turn when I found out that I'm an NPE, a person who 21 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:23,680 has experienced a non paternal event. 22 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:28,240 In other words, my biological father isn't who I thought he 23 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:31,240 was. Join me as we explore the 24 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:36,320 stories of NP, ES, adoptees and donor conceived people and their 25 00:01:36,320 --> 00:01:39,120 families. Get ready to unravel the 26 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:43,280 astonishing journeys that begin with a simple DNA test. 27 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:49,320 This is DNA surprises. Imagine uncovering your DNA 28 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:54,160 surprise, experiencing the shock and devastation that comes with 29 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:58,520 it, and then learning that the surprise wasn't a total surprise 30 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:02,160 after all. Earlier this season, we heard a 31 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:05,960 story like this, and in this week's episode, you'll hear 32 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:09,560 another. When Tamara confronted her mom 33 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:13,120 about her DNA surprise, she was shocked to learn that they'd 34 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:15,320 already discussed it when she was younger. 35 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:19,360 For some reason, the memory didn't stick with her, and when 36 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:21,840 she learned the truth, it came back to her. 37 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:26,560 Yet, she still had to contend with this revelation as though 38 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:28,480 she was hearing it for the first time. 39 00:02:29,640 --> 00:02:33,440 Tamara details her search for her biological father after 40 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:36,480 being given incorrect information and facing 41 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:38,440 roadblocks from her found family. 42 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:43,160 Just before we recorded our interview, she got a surprise 43 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:45,840 that gave her the answers she was looking for. 44 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:49,600 Thank you for sharing your story, Tamara. 45 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:57,800 My name is Tamara, I am 49 years old and I live in Redlands, CA. 46 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:02,800 My surprise is like a lot that I've heard on Black Friday. 47 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:09,240 In 2022, my family and I decided to go ahead and purchase 48 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:14,840 ancestry kits for myself, my husband, and our two kids. 49 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:17,920 Our son had been wanting to do it for like a few years, but it 50 00:03:17,920 --> 00:03:22,680 is so expensive that we just never did, and we saw a great 51 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:24,800 sale on Black Friday, so we went ahead and did it. 52 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:30,200 So we took them in January and sent our results off in January 53 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:33,840 2023. And when my results came back in 54 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:39,200 February, I saw like some matches and I knew like some 55 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:41,680 maternal names. But my parents have been 56 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:43,200 divorced since I was five years old. 57 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:48,400 I was born in Texas originally. When I was 5, my parents got 58 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:52,000 divorced and my mom moved my sister and I back to her 59 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:55,160 hometown in California. I didn't see my dad a lot. 60 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:58,120 I call my dad my dad because that's what he is. 61 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:00,880 And so I didn't know a lot about his family. 62 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:06,840 So when I didn't see his name or his like his surname or 63 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:08,520 whatever, like I didn't think a big deal. 64 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:10,640 I didn't think anybody in his family would take it. 65 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:12,680 And I didn't really know a lot of surname. 66 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:17,519 But I started putting my family tree together anyways and I got 67 00:04:17,519 --> 00:04:21,240 stuck and I got into denial real quick about what the possibility 68 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:23,120 of what's happening, what's happening. 69 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:26,920 I, I got to a great grandmother and I did what people do and I 70 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:31,720 was like, I think maybe this person like had a kid and gave 71 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:34,560 it up for adoption or something. And that's why this other 72 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:39,000 surname is so prominent in my DNA matches. 73 00:04:39,840 --> 00:04:43,160 Kind of starting to do the like mental gymnastics to make it 74 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:45,960 make sense. Big time. 75 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:49,680 So I was like, you know what, I'm going to go to the source. 76 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:54,400 I'm going to reach out to my dad and ask him like, hey, is there 77 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:57,880 anything weird? Like did your grandma or great 78 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,960 grandma give a kid up for adoption that you know about? 79 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:04,600 And you know, he's older, right? He didn't text me back. 80 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:07,680 He called me when he called me, he was like, hey, what are you? 81 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:11,400 Why are you asking? And I said, well, I did Ancestry 82 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,200 and I would like to, you know, finish all my tree. 83 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:20,000 And he said, oh, honey, like, just let me give you my username 84 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:23,680 and password. I did Ancestry in 2014. 85 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:30,920 Just pull all the information off my tree and my world crashed 86 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:35,440 immediately. I made an excuse to hang up very 87 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:42,760 quickly and then I cried for probably two or three days 88 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:49,600 because we weren't a match on there and I knew that he wasn't 89 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:51,400 my biological father. At that point. 90 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:55,200 It took me that was like February 19th. 91 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:58,120 I worked on it for 10 days like thinking this great grandma had 92 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:02,080 given somebody up and I didn't call him back for like another 93 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:06,920 week and 1/2 or two weeks. And I just told him like, we 94 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:11,400 don't match on there. And denial isn't just for the 95 00:06:12,280 --> 00:06:15,040 just for the person going through the DNA surprise as the 96 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:19,520 kid, because my dad, as sweet as he is, my dad goes, maybe 97 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:23,480 they're just behind, Like, maybe it hasn't matched us yet. 98 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:28,240 And I knew that wasn't the case 'cause my kids came up 99 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:32,000 immediately with me and all these other matches did too. 100 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:37,520 But he told me, you know, like not to despair and just maybe 101 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:42,720 they were behind. So I waited like another week, 102 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:46,920 and then I called him back and I said, Dad, I don't think that, 103 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:51,280 you know, I don't think you're my biological father. 104 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:55,720 At that point, he said that he had known there was a 105 00:06:55,720 --> 00:07:00,240 possibility because he had heard that my mother had had affairs. 106 00:07:01,280 --> 00:07:03,960 But you know, when I was born, the day I was born, he held me 107 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:07,480 and I was his, and I always would be. 108 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:14,200 What did you think when you learned that he kind of knew 109 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:18,720 that there was a possibility? Did you know that your mom had 110 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:21,080 had an affair? Anything like that? 111 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:23,480 I was so young when my parents got divorced that I don't even 112 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:25,240 really remember them being married. 113 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:29,840 My mom always told us that my dad was unfaithful and I didn't 114 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:32,400 really hear stories about my mom being unfaithful because she 115 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:36,000 wasn't going to share that part. But if didn't surprise me. 116 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:38,680 My dad just said like they were young when they got married and 117 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:42,600 I shouldn't blame anybody. So I want to say I was 118 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:44,760 surprised, but probably like, what is it called? 119 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:47,200 Like the known unknown or the unknown known? 120 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:49,080 Yeah, the unknown. Yeah. 121 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:55,080 I am the person that doesn't look like my sibling my my 122 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:59,520 sister at all for she has brown hair, brown eyes just like our 123 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:04,240 dad and I have blonde hair and blue eyes just like nobody. 124 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:07,920 My sister would say I was the milk man's baby when she found 125 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:11,440 out about the DNA surprise. She apologized very very much 126 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:14,160 for that. My mom did remind me when I 127 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:16,240 finally called her. I didn't call her for another 128 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:18,760 few weeks. My dad said if I wanted any 129 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:20,840 information I would have to talk to her. 130 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:23,960 Which makes sense because why would he know? 131 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:26,920 I called her and I said I took ancestry. 132 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:29,120 Do you have anything you want to share? 133 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:33,159 And she said, why did you do that? 134 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:39,720 And I said, because we wanted to. 135 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:42,520 And she reminded me that when I was when I was 13 and I was 136 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:45,400 sharing, sharing with her a secret that I had been holding, 137 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:49,920 she, she chose at that time to say she had a secret too. 138 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:54,320 And she told me this. And I had forgotten that that 139 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:57,920 happened until she reminded me on that phone call when I was 140 00:08:57,920 --> 00:08:59,480 telling her about the DNA surprise. 141 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:04,280 And so I guess she's not lying. She had told me that there was a 142 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:07,920 possibility but it was like 1 instance. 143 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:10,920 So she did. So she actually told you like 144 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:14,640 the full like, I had an affair and there's a chance that your 145 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:17,400 dad might not be your biological father. 146 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:22,280 Yeah, and she and she told me the person's name, that it, that 147 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:25,880 it was. When she mentioned this to you, 148 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:28,680 did it come back to you? Did you remember the 149 00:09:28,680 --> 00:09:34,640 conversation? It's so weird having a memory be 150 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:38,360 rediscovered because I literally remember sitting in my room on 151 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:40,760 my bed with my mom at that moment. 152 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:44,720 It was when I was 13. It was something devastating 153 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:47,160 that had happened to me that I was sharing with her. 154 00:09:47,680 --> 00:09:53,320 And so that's the memory that I always remembered was that I had 155 00:09:53,320 --> 00:10:01,160 told my mom this and I didn't like retain the information or I 156 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:04,200 blocked out the information that she had chosen to share at that 157 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:09,600 time. It is, it is a bizarre feeling 158 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:13,600 to have that happen. So Needless to say, the person 159 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:18,200 that she told me that it was, it isn't it wasn't that person. 160 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:20,200 That person isn't in my DNA matches. 161 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:23,480 OK, so did. Were you able to figure that out 162 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:26,240 immediately? Like did she retell you that 163 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:29,640 person's name when you went and looked and said Nope, that's not 164 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:31,600 it? Or what happened after you had 165 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:35,120 that conversation? Yeah, I didn't have real close 166 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:37,440 matches. The closest match I had on my 167 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:41,400 paternal side was, and I say it's not close, but it really is 168 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:46,080 a second cousin. So I, without having any 169 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:49,800 genealogy experience, had figured this out pretty well, 170 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:54,160 but I was still holding that name that my mom gave me and 171 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:56,640 looking at the information that I had, and I couldn't figure it 172 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:58,400 out. And so I reached out to the DNA 173 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:01,720 angels and they somewhat solved my case in 15 minutes. 174 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:06,400 It was narrowed down to three brothers and none of them were 175 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:14,360 the person that she told me so. OK, what did you think when you 176 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:18,800 realized that it wasn't the person your mom had told you 177 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:23,200 either? I was confused as to like why? 178 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:29,160 She was very specific, like she remembers this man's name first 179 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:31,520 and last she remembers what he did as a job. 180 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:34,080 She said this person worked with my dad. 181 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:38,680 All of these like like details from 1975 that were kind of 182 00:11:38,680 --> 00:11:43,480 crazy. So I was confused and upset that 183 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:48,000 she like, obviously there is something else that she's not 184 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:52,280 telling me. And I don't understand why my 185 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:54,560 parents are no longer married. They haven't been married for a 186 00:11:54,560 --> 00:11:58,320 long time. Like why? 187 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:01,800 Why not just come forth and say like, oh, actually is this 188 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:03,280 person. I am a feminist. 189 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:05,280 Like her marriage to my dad was what? 190 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:07,560 That's her marriage to my dad. And what happened? 191 00:12:07,560 --> 00:12:10,080 Like that's not what happened in their marriage isn't my 192 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,320 business. I don't I don't judge them for 193 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:16,000 having affairs. I mean, that's why they got 194 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:17,640 divorced. That makes sense. 195 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:23,000 I understand it was the 70s and it was Texas and probably, you 196 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:27,400 know, her hands were tied with what she could do, but it's not 197 00:12:27,560 --> 00:12:31,560 1975 Texas anymore. And I just didn't understand why 198 00:12:31,560 --> 00:12:34,640 she couldn't tell me the truth now. 199 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:38,520 Did you confront her once you had narrowed it down to the 200 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:44,000 three brothers? I, I did, I called her again 201 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:48,680 and, and said, you know, look, it's, it's one of these three 202 00:12:48,680 --> 00:12:52,920 people. And The funny thing is, is that 203 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:57,840 one of the, one of the three brothers has the same first name 204 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:04,000 as the guy she was telling me, but the last name was different. 205 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:07,640 The last name was different. The occupation is different, all 206 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:10,320 of these things. So I couldn't just go with like, 207 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:13,760 it's definitely probably this guy then, because none of the 208 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:18,120 other details match. And she was adamant that it was 209 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:21,400 not that last name. And you know, Ancestry has some 210 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:23,600 crazy things on it. I was able to find pictures of 211 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:25,840 these guys when they were younger. 212 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:30,040 I sent her pictures of them and she was like, I've never met any 213 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:34,960 of those guys. So I was I was left with not 214 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:38,760 knowing my mom was not going to give me the answer. 215 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:44,080 So it was narrowed down to three brothers and one of them, the 216 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:46,000 youngest one, was already deceased. 217 00:13:47,560 --> 00:13:51,240 So I reached out to the two surviving brothers. 218 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:54,640 DNA angels have like this letter, or at least my Angel 219 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:57,000 did. She sent me kind of a form kind 220 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:58,560 of letter that you can personalize. 221 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:05,520 I personalized it and mailed it off and hoped for something, but 222 00:14:05,680 --> 00:14:10,720 unfortunately neither one of them ever returned my 223 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:12,760 correspondence. So it wasn't looking like I was 224 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,640 going to get an answer from either of them either. 225 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:18,720 I'm not a patient person. This, this journey has taught 226 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:24,000 me, definitely made me practice patients. 227 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:28,080 The oldest brother, he didn't have any children, so I wasn't 228 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:31,360 going to be having any luck like ever having somebody, you know, 229 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:35,400 like one of his kids tests. The middle brother had one child 230 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:39,760 and the youngest brother who was deceased has four children. 231 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,280 So I waited a month after I mailed the letters to the two 232 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:46,640 surviving brothers. And then I was like, I'm going 233 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:51,360 to reach out to those five kids. I need somebody to help me. 234 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:55,360 So social media, for everything negative people say about it, it 235 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:57,400 really has some positive aspects. 236 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:00,200 And I sent messages to all five kids. 237 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:06,040 The middle brother, his son, responded almost immediately. 238 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:09,960 And I immediately had a panic attack because I wasn't 239 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:14,960 expecting anybody to respond. But we exchanged a few messages 240 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:18,480 and then I asked him if he would test if I if I mailed him an 241 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:22,200 ancestry kit. And he said, yeah, why not? 242 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:27,440 So I mailed him a kit. My, my husband was like on, on 243 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:31,240 Amazon as I was chatting with him, getting it sent over. 244 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:36,360 And that was in May. And in July, he came back as my 245 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:40,920 first cousin. So definitely the right family. 246 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,920 Yeah, yeah. And and you know that his dad is 247 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:46,720 not your dad. Yeah, I was. 248 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:50,440 I'm not gonna lie, I was really kind of bummed because he was so 249 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:54,000 open and willing to help. I was like, oh, it will be 250 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:58,200 amazing if it is this guy because he just seems so 251 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:01,320 generous with his empathy to help a stranger. 252 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:02,800 He didn't know me. He didn't. 253 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:06,880 He did not know me at all. I was so appreciative of that. 254 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:11,000 The oldest son of the youngest brother that's it's so confusing 255 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,800 without using names, but I'm hoping people will will be able 256 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:15,600 to follow. He did reach out. 257 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:20,120 He did respond to my message, but he responded and was like, 258 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:23,200 this is so interesting. Can we zoom? 259 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:27,680 And I was like, absolutely. But by the end of that day, he 260 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:30,480 had pulled back and said, you know what, actually, I would 261 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,760 rather talk to my uncles before I reach out to you. 262 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:36,000 And I was like, you know, I get it. 263 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:41,320 And then he just never, never reached back out. 264 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:44,440 So I wasn't hopeful that he would be helping me anytime. 265 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:48,080 And the other of the other three, you know, of his three 266 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:50,680 siblings, 1 blocked me on social media. 267 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:53,160 And I thought, that's fair. This is kind of a weird message 268 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:55,480 to get. And then the other two just 269 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:59,440 never responded. That's an empathetic take, 270 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:01,960 right? Because you would think if you 271 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:04,800 got a message like that or something, I mean, you might 272 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:11,480 think it's spam or something. So, OK, so you so at this point 273 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,839 you've connected with a cousin, yes? 274 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:18,640 OK. And through him, he talked to 275 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:24,520 his dad, and he arranged for me to have a Zoom meeting with his 276 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:27,760 dad. So I thought that was promising. 277 00:17:28,079 --> 00:17:30,440 This is all moving pretty. I'm thinking this is moving. 278 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:33,560 It's moving slower than I want it to, but it's moving pretty 279 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:35,480 quick. This is only six months later. 280 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:37,280 And he's very nice man, very nice man. 281 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:41,720 But it was mostly just to tell me that it was most likely his 282 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,880 older brother, that is, you know, my biological father. 283 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:48,720 But he's not interested. He received my letters and he's 284 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:54,640 not interested in finding out. How are you feeling as you kind 285 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:59,320 of hit these roadblocks in trying to make a connection with 286 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:04,880 your biological family? It was. 287 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:09,360 It is such an emotional roller coaster, for lack of a better 288 00:18:09,360 --> 00:18:11,840 phrase. I always think with every 289 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:18,120 rejection that like I get better at accepting it until the next 290 00:18:18,120 --> 00:18:21,320 one comes and I'm like, Dang it. My husband tells me now like 291 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:24,320 manage your expectations. Like anytime something happens, 292 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:28,680 he's like manager expectations. Like I'm trying and I think I'm 293 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:31,920 doing a good job at it until, you know, until something 294 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:33,640 happens. And then it's just a little bit. 295 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:38,080 It's a little bit heartbreaking. We're always told like our moms 296 00:18:38,120 --> 00:18:43,080 are supposed to be the people that love us the most and would 297 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:48,640 do anything for us. And I clearly don't have that 298 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,920 because my mom can't even be honest with me. 299 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:59,320 So to expect anything more from strangers, this is kind of crazy 300 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:03,600 to me. But somehow, even as even as I 301 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:06,200 always say I'm a pessimist, I'm clearly not because I'm always 302 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:08,160 so optimistic that somebody's going to help. 303 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:10,920 Yeah. And you're so empathetic and 304 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:15,120 compassionate for the people in your story. 305 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:17,200 People say nurturer nature, right? 306 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:20,480 And like my dad who will forever be my dad. 307 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:23,360 And that's what I tried to tell that uncle, like I tried to tell 308 00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:26,720 him on the Zoom, like to convey that like I'm not looking for a 309 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:28,600 dad. I have a dad, he's great. 310 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:32,520 It's clearly not nature cuz he's not my biological father. 311 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:36,120 And I don't even know how it's nurture because he only raised 312 00:19:36,120 --> 00:19:38,520 me for the first five years of my life. 313 00:19:39,120 --> 00:19:43,400 But he is such an empathetic person because even when I was 314 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:49,440 on the phone with him and asking like if he knew anything, never 315 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:54,640 bad mouthed her. He just would say we got married 316 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:58,160 too young. He would say, you know, if I 317 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,800 could give you an answer, I would give you an answer. 318 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:04,520 I'm so sorry I can't tell you who it is. 319 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:06,560 So I think I get my empathy from him. 320 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:14,320 Yeah, that is such a a painful thing to have to navigate with 321 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:17,160 your mom. How is your relationship with 322 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:22,120 her today? We are, we're, we're estranged. 323 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:26,000 I, I was mistakenly telling people that like I was estranged 324 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:29,520 from her, but I'm actually the one who had the last contact. 325 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:33,440 I mailed her a Christmas card last Christmas and just saying 326 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:35,400 again, like, if she could please tell me. 327 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:38,240 And if she doesn't know, if she could just say that she doesn't 328 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:41,080 know, but to please stop saying that it's that one person 329 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:44,840 because it's not him. And I never heard back. 330 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:48,480 I wasn't sure that she got the Christmas card, but I had spoken 331 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:52,360 to my sister and she told me that she she told me that she 332 00:20:52,360 --> 00:20:53,800 did. She said, oh, I know you sent 333 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:57,080 mom a Christmas card. And I said, OK, so she did get 334 00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:58,960 it. She was like, yeah, she got it. 335 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:02,480 I was like, OK, so she's estranged For me, I suppose it 336 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:07,360 hurts because she's also made it to where I can't have contact 337 00:21:07,360 --> 00:21:10,320 with her sisters. My aunt, my family, and I 338 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:14,920 decided to do a road trip out to Texas this past June because I 339 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:19,880 really needed to see my dad in person and I reached out to two 340 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:25,600 of my aunts that had moved out to Texas after my mom did and 341 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:30,080 both of them declined just to visit with me because they said 342 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:32,960 if I wasn't going to see my mom that I couldn't see them either. 343 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,160 That's really painful, I'm sorry. 344 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:41,680 That hurt almost as bad as the DNA surprise, because I didn't 345 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,760 see that coming. I was naive, I suppose. 346 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:48,240 I don't know my my raised sister, she is like, this 347 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,200 doesn't change anything between us other than she's like, I'm so 348 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,200 sorry I ever called you the milkman's kid. 349 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,200 And then her kids have like been great. 350 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,560 So, but it hurts to lose other people that I just didn't think 351 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:03,680 I would lose. And then to not be gaining 352 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:07,960 anybody either, right? Like we get kind of left in no 353 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,240 man's land and not by our choice. 354 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:12,720 What has been helping you through this? 355 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,480 It sounds like your husband's been a source of support. 356 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:22,120 And my kids my my son and daughter are amazing. 357 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:26,040 I have definitely built the family that I always needed as a 358 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:30,200 kid and that includes MY2 best friends who I've known since 4th 359 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,880 grade and 7th grade have been there with me each Step 2. 360 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:36,200 I have some amazing Co workers because at the beginning of this 361 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:44,400 I was a mess at work and they were very very kind to me the 362 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,600 whole time. The whole time, and I did, and I 363 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:49,880 did go to therapy. My therapist helped me work 364 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:52,080 through the steps of grief because I really think that's 365 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:54,560 what I was. I got stuck in anger for a 366 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:58,800 little while, but she has helped me get through the steps of 367 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,720 grief. And then the NP podcast 368 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:05,480 community is an amazing community to be a part of. 369 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:08,520 So we drove out to Texas right in June. 370 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,560 And before we went, I was like, shoot, I'm going to shoot my 371 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:15,440 shot again, right? I'm going to message my new 372 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:16,640 cousin. That is confirmed. 373 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,560 I'm going to message those four. Well, the three other kids, the 374 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:21,240 one blocked me. I can't message that one 375 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:22,960 anymore. But the three others I can 376 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,400 message. And I said, hey, I only get out 377 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:31,160 to Texas maybe once a decade. Like if any of you want to meet 378 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:36,680 up, I'm totally down for it. And the new cousin was like, 379 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,920 absolutely. And the other three I never 380 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,920 heard from. So we drove out there and I had 381 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,720 looked up the cemetery of the brother who had passed away too, 382 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:50,040 because I thought, you know, there's a chance that he's my 383 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,560 biological father, chance that he's not. 384 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,880 I'm going to go get some connection, some closure. 385 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,000 I don't know what I was thinking, but we went there too. 386 00:23:58,000 --> 00:23:59,880 We didn't end up meeting the new cousin. 387 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:04,120 Something came up and we were unable to meet in person, but we 388 00:24:04,120 --> 00:24:07,160 did have like an hour and a half FaceTime and that was nice. 389 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:11,320 He, he has since sent me pictures of my biological 390 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:16,440 grandparents and given me like, you know, information about them 391 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:18,760 and stuff. And we've chatted here and there 392 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:20,320 a couple times. It's really hard to make 393 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:23,000 connection when there's 1800 miles between you. 394 00:24:23,120 --> 00:24:27,280 Yeah, that distance is hard. Yeah, it, it is. 395 00:24:27,360 --> 00:24:29,520 And being adults, we have adult lives. 396 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,680 He's got a wife and children. I have my kids like where you 397 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:37,880 know, but I just, but I know that when I message him, if I 398 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:41,440 ask him something, he usually responds and he's reached out to 399 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,960 me sometimes too. So I'm appreciative of that. 400 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:49,240 But I was really starting to think that I was going to have 401 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,800 to be OK with never knowing who my biological father was. 402 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:58,960 But Alexis, you're not going to believe it, but last Thursday, 403 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,520 like, what is that? Four days ago I got a new first 404 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:08,520 cousin match on Ancestry and the oldest daughter of the youngest 405 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,680 son tested never saying anything. 406 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,400 She never messaged me once, she never reached out about 407 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:19,400 anything. And I don't even care because 408 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,800 now I know that my biological father is the oldest brother. 409 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:28,800 What a gift to know for sure. I checked it when I was eating 410 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:32,800 dinner and I almost choked on my spaghetti and the amount of 411 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:37,480 dancing that went on in my house that night, I could not believe 412 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,040 it. I would really like to have a 413 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,160 connection with my biological father's side of the family, 414 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,560 some type of connection, but it was the answer of who it was 415 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,960 that I was really looking for. And for her to just do it 416 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:54,840 quietly behind the scenes without ever saying anything was 417 00:25:54,840 --> 00:26:00,600 just amazing. So now that you know who he is, 418 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,760 have you been able to, through your own research or maybe 419 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:08,320 through your cousin, that first cousin that you matched with, 420 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,000 have you been able to learn anything new about him? 421 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:15,840 The first cousin had shared some information and even the uncle 422 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,120 shared information 'cause they were pretty sure the oldest 423 00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:22,000 brother made the most sense. You know, I'm a science girly 424 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,960 and I if there was, there was 2 opportunities that it could be. 425 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:28,600 I just needed science to prove which one it was. 426 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,760 They had given me some information about him and the 427 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:37,000 Internet is a really big place. So I found some stuff, but 428 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:41,640 mostly I just wanted a name. I just wanted a name and now I 429 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:48,280 have it and it, it is wild the amount of peace that that 430 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:51,080 brought me. It kind of makes me speechless a 431 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:55,640 little bit. It was just needing to know and 432 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,400 I couldn't believe that it happened last Thursday. 433 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,840 I was like, Oh my gosh, like, I can't believe this is happening 434 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:02,320 before I'm going to be recording. 435 00:27:02,360 --> 00:27:05,960 I will be honest, I was hoping to be able to use this podcast 436 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:14,880 as a way to send it to the other kids so that maybe they, if they 437 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:19,160 heard me telling my story or seeing, you know, like that I'm 438 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,200 an actual person, that I'm not some type of scam that like 439 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,640 maybe they would have the compassion to, to test. 440 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,640 And that I just that it didn't even take that. 441 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:33,400 And I don't know why she did it. All my, my Co workers, all my Co 442 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:35,080 workers were like, why did she test? 443 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,360 And I was like, I don't know, maybe curiosity got the best of 444 00:27:38,360 --> 00:27:39,600 her too. I don't know. 445 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:46,760 That's so awesome and I remember you you sharing with me that 446 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,560 that was kind of like a hope, right? 447 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:54,320 Is, is that that would kind of, I don't want to say humanize 448 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,760 you, but maybe, you know, in a way I'm like, this is this is 449 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:02,040 what the experience is like, like help, you know, and the 450 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,680 fact that you got that answer is just so incredible. 451 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,320 And also maybe that will give someone hope who's listening 452 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,840 right now, because sometimes it seems like it's going a certain 453 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:17,920 way and it changes. And that's not to say to get 454 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:22,760 caught up on on on hoping, you know, we have to accept things 455 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:29,320 as they are, but maybe it's just to know that what it is today 456 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:31,160 could be very different tomorrow. 457 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,360 It really, it really could be. I'm still a little in shock that 458 00:28:34,360 --> 00:28:36,520 I have an answer 'cause it's been a year and a half. 459 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:40,120 And then to in the last week that was, that was a tough week 460 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:43,840 to begin with, to then get such such joyous news. 461 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:47,560 Kind of surreal at the moment. I took a screenshot of the of 462 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,440 the results just so that I know that it's real. 463 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:54,080 Like if she if she ever deletes her profile, I know that it was 464 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,160 there and that I do have an answer. 465 00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,360 I was so prepared to tell you at the end of this, like, and I'm 466 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:03,920 still waiting to know, but I actually know and I'm so 467 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,880 satisfied. Well, now that you know, what's 468 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:14,440 next for you. Honestly for me, this chapter 469 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:18,800 can be closed if any of them ever decide to reach out to me. 470 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:24,760 I would absolutely be open to it, but I never intended on 471 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,720 disrupting their lives. What happened wasn't something 472 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:32,440 that I did to insert myself into anybody else's life or disrupt 473 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:34,640 it. So they all know. 474 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:40,160 They all know where I am and how they can contact me and if they 475 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,480 want to, I'm here. But otherwise, I really just 476 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,560 wanted an answer. And because and because of those 477 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:51,840 two first cousins that I will be eternally grateful to, I have 478 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,400 the answer. So I'm good. 479 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,240 I'm good. That's so, so awesome. 480 00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,280 You just said that that you feel like you can close the chapter 481 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,040 now. Mm hmm. 482 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:07,920 How have you been able to make peace with not getting your 483 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:13,400 hopes up and maybe not getting to connect with so much of your 484 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,480 biological family? But help me come to being OK 485 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:23,760 with not being connected with my paternal biological family was, 486 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:27,760 ironically enough, losing the parts of my maternal biological 487 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:31,280 family. It really shines a light on who 488 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:34,560 is most important. I have a lot of love around me 489 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,840 and so I'm not desperate for connection. 490 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:42,160 I'm open to it. I am open to it if any of them 491 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:45,800 reach out. But I have the people that love 492 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:50,000 me around me and that's really what has made it bearable these 493 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,440 last 18 months. Yeah, thank you for sharing that 494 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:59,040 because it's it's hard to think about kind of walking away if 495 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:04,840 you maybe don't have all of the answers that you want or haven't 496 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,680 connected with every single person that you want to connect 497 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:09,440 with. I appreciate you sharing your 498 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,880 perspective of, of you're able to kind of say, OK, like I'm 499 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:16,200 open and if something else happens, great. 500 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,400 And if not, I'm I'm OK with closing this. 501 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:25,360 What advice do you have for a parent who may be keeping adna 502 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,880 surprise from their child? I knew this question was coming 503 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:34,840 and I've been thinking and the only advice that I can think of 504 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:37,600 is not keep it a secret. Ever. 505 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:42,360 I think that every, every kid has a right to know where they 506 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:46,760 come from. Every you know, in my case, my 507 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:50,800 dad deserved to know that he wasn't my biological father. 508 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,040 I feel like he would have been here there anyways. 509 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,560 I think my mom didn't give him enough credit for that. 510 00:31:56,000 --> 00:32:01,280 Just the damage that it's causing, whether parents realize 511 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:05,240 it or not, it can be breaking. I went through a really tough 512 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,800 time of like looking in the mirror and not knowing who was 513 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,880 looking back at me. If a parent really takes himself 514 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:15,280 out of the equation and removes their ego and stops protecting 515 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:19,760 themselves, I think that they know they need to let their kid 516 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,680 know who their biological parent or parents are. 517 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,560 Yeah, just don't keep a secret. It's causing damage that you 518 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,680 might not ever see, but it's there. 519 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,520 What advice do you have for someone who just uncovered Adna 520 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:37,480 Surprise? Know that every emotion and 521 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:42,160 feeling that you feel is valid, every single one of them. 522 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:49,360 And know that as hard as it is, you'll get through it. 523 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:54,160 Surround yourself with people who will listen to you and love 524 00:32:54,160 --> 00:33:00,400 you and not say silly things like you're still you or your 525 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:04,320 dad's still your dad. And even if it's just the 526 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:10,440 teeniest tiniest bit, keep hope and know that it's not you that 527 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:14,160 caused any of this. It is not you that caused any of 528 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:16,880 this. You're our product of it and you 529 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:18,440 get to be the one to deal with it. 530 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,920 But it isn't your fault no matter what. 531 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:24,920 Anybody. Says so well said. 532 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:27,400 So well said. Tamara. 533 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,600 Thank you so much for coming on the podcast and sharing your 534 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:32,800 story. I'm so happy for you that you 535 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:36,000 finally got an answer just in between the time that we 536 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,520 scheduled this interview. Like that's just goes to show 537 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:44,360 how much can change and how quickly, even after long periods 538 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,440 of time, or maybe it doesn't seem like it will. 539 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:50,680 So thank you for just being so vulnerable and sharing what this 540 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:55,720 experience has been like for you and whether the chapter remains 541 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:59,360 closed or if it continues. I just wish you the best. 542 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,480 Thank you so much, Alexis, and thank you so much for everything 543 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:08,440 that you do. The NPE world is a better space 544 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:13,880 because you and people like you have put out these forms and 545 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:17,400 have spaces for us to talk about it so that we know we're not 546 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:18,840 alone. And it is. 547 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:22,400 These podcasts are part of what got me through in the beginning, 548 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,080 so I really, really appreciate everything that you do. 549 00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,880 Thank you so much. Thanks again to Tamara for 550 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,880 sharing her story. If you have Adna surprise that 551 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:35,719 you'd like to share, please submit your story at 552 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:39,280 dnasurprises.com. Until next time. 553 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:45,400 This episode of DNA Surprises was hosted, produced and edited 554 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:49,920 by me Alexis Ourselt. It was mixed and mastered by 555 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,159 Josh Ourselt of Siren Recording Studios.