1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,840 Have you heard about the Untangling Our Roots Summit? 2 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:06,760 Untangling Our Roots is a summit created for people impacted by 3 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:11,120 adoption, donor conception, misattributed parentage, and 4 00:00:11,120 --> 00:00:14,840 unexpected DNA discoveries, along with therapists, 5 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:18,080 genealogists, and advocates who support them. 6 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:20,920 This is more than a conference about discovery. 7 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:25,680 It's about what comes after, how we process identity shifts, 8 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:31,080 navigate relationships, grieve what is lost, and build meaning 9 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:34,840 moving forward. Over 3 plus days, attendees will 10 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:37,960 engage in powerful conversations, practical 11 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:40,800 workshops, and quiet spaces for reflection. 12 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:46,600 Covering healing, mental health, genealogy, storytelling, ethics, 13 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:50,240 advocacy, and so much more, Untangling Our Roots offers 14 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:53,800 community, understanding, and tools without pressure to have 15 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:57,320 it all figured out. This year's summit is March 19th 16 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:00,760 through the 22nd, 2026 in Atlanta. 17 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:05,920 You can learn more and register at Untangling Our roots.org. 18 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:13,760 So that wrapped up the visit and what is so crazy to me now, I 19 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:17,160 look back on that and I didn't put too much thought or stock in 20 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:19,400 that. I was on such cloud 9. 21 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:22,960 I'm like, well, things are just going to continue how they've 22 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:28,320 been going and I was wrong. Welcome to DNA Surprises, a 23 00:01:28,320 --> 00:01:32,480 podcast that explores the life altering world of unexpected DNA 24 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:36,560 discoveries. I'm your host, Alexis Ourselt. 25 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:41,400 This show centers the stories of people who've experienced NP, ES 26 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:46,040 or non paternal events. In other words, people who've 27 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:49,520 learned that their biological father isn't who they thought he 28 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:53,120 was. We'll also hear from adoptees, 29 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:57,440 donor conceived people, and the families navigating these 30 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:00,640 discoveries. Get ready to follow the 31 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:05,240 incredible journeys that begin with a simple DNA test. 32 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:11,800 This is DNA surprises. My quest to find my past would 33 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:17,080 return again and again in the years to come, Like a lighthouse 34 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:21,280 beacon that flashes bright and then fades, only to return 35 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:24,560 again. This quote, written by Steve 36 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:28,680 Pemberton and shared by this week's guest, perfectly captures 37 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:31,920 the whole that DNA surprises have on so many. 38 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:37,680 There are periods of intense focus on our feelings, our 39 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:40,880 research, and our desire for connection. 40 00:02:41,920 --> 00:02:45,320 These are sometimes followed by periods where thoughts and 41 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:50,200 feelings are fleeting, especially as time goes on, but 42 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:53,760 they often return again, just like a lighthouse beacon. 43 00:02:54,640 --> 00:02:58,120 In this week's episode, Ellen shares how she learned the truth 44 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:01,000 about her paternity more than two decades ago. 45 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:05,640 Since then, she embarked on a quest to learn the truth about 46 00:03:05,640 --> 00:03:09,320 her biological father. She's encountered acceptance, 47 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:13,360 quiet rejection, and obstacles that have prevented her from 48 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:17,040 fully connecting with her new found family, but she holds on 49 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:19,920 to her desire for truth and connection. 50 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:23,680 Thank you for sharing your story, Ellen. 51 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:26,880 I'm Ellen. I am in my late 30s. 52 00:03:26,920 --> 00:03:31,200 I'm from the Midwest. I have known about my NPE status 53 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:36,400 for over 25 years now. I did not find out from ADNA 54 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:40,120 test, although I have done one as an adult. 55 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:44,560 I grew up pretty unconventionally. 56 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:51,520 I was the middle child of three children, had a mom and dad that 57 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:56,120 were raising me and I did not question their relation to me 58 00:03:56,120 --> 00:04:00,040 biologically. But I wouldn't say it was an 59 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:04,680 easy childhood. My raised father was just very 60 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:09,720 eccentric, educated and very intelligent, but was never 61 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:13,000 satisfied with a job or career path. 62 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:18,480 And so that lack of stability, it took our family along for a 63 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:21,560 wild ride. In addition, there was a big 64 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:24,440 religious theme growing up in my home. 65 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:27,680 The best way I would describe it as my parents were charismatic 66 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:32,200 Christians, involved in different churches, small 67 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:35,160 groups. There were just always these 68 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:39,720 people in our lives that spoke this kind of charismatic 69 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:43,400 Christian language. So my parents would all often 70 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:45,760 share what they called their testimony. 71 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:50,640 What that means basically is you share all the tales of your 72 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:53,520 life, good, bad and ugly, and ultimately how that led you to 73 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:56,960 Christ. So I grew up feeling like it was 74 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:00,560 very normal for my parents to tell their testimony. 75 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:03,920 I was very familiar with their testimony. 76 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:10,160 And then one day when I was 11 years old, my raised dad asked 77 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:14,360 me to go in our backyard with him and he wanted to share his 78 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:18,680 testimony with me, which immediately felt bull and off 79 00:05:18,840 --> 00:05:24,800 because I had heard it so many times and I just didn't know why 80 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:26,760 he was making it a point to do this. 81 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:31,040 So he's telling you the story. It's very familiar. 82 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:35,960 Essentially, he married my mom in their early 20s. 83 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:38,680 They had my older sister right away. 84 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:43,120 And then four years into their marriage, they got divorced and 85 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:46,920 he moved to a different state. And my mom was a single mom 86 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:52,920 raising my sister. And four years after their 87 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:58,280 divorce, they remarried. And I had always assumed that I 88 00:05:58,280 --> 00:06:01,400 came along right after the remarriage. 89 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,600 That was the part of the testimony that I was learning 90 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:08,320 for the first time. So it was actually my raised dad 91 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:13,200 who told me that he was not my biological dad, that during my 92 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:19,400 parents divorce, the way he described it to me was it didn't 93 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,400 mean anything. It wasn't a big deal. 94 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:26,200 Basically, I'm not your biological dad, but your 95 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:30,280 biological dad was just a sperm donor and I'm your real dad. 96 00:06:30,840 --> 00:06:35,200 And ultimately this crazy thing, you know, LED us to Christ and 97 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:40,240 LED us to getting remarried and then they had my younger 98 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:44,560 brother. So it is, it's it's interesting 99 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:50,000 being the NPE as a middle child. My older sibling and younger 100 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:53,720 sibling are full blown siblings and the middle one is the half. 101 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:58,560 I'm thinking about the fact that you've heard your parents share 102 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:02,680 so much of their story. So I imagine that you really 103 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:07,680 felt like you knew everything about them, even more than maybe 104 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:11,040 some, like other people whose parents don't, you know, share 105 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:15,360 their whole dark secrets and, and all of that as part of the 106 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:17,320 testimony as you're describing it. 107 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:21,880 So and then you're also just 11 years old and you're learning 108 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:25,120 all of this information. How are you feeling in that 109 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:28,040 moment? The best way I can describe it 110 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:32,640 is like you're about to go down like a roller coaster. 111 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:36,920 Like my stomach dropped out from within the shock. 112 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:39,480 I still don't think I'm over the shock. 113 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:44,040 I feel like a lot of people when they find out or like there had 114 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:48,360 been all these signs all along. I don't want to say that I knew, 115 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:52,240 but I can remember the day I found out. 116 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:55,400 Not immediately, but very soon after. 117 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:57,920 Feeling like this just makes so much sense. 118 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:02,560 This makes so much sense. But what was different about the 119 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:07,120 time versus if I had found out today is there was there was no 120 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:10,240 Internet. There was no I basically was 121 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:15,360 given this bombshell with no details attached to it, and I 122 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:18,800 was just sort of left with my own imagination. 123 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:21,400 Did you you didn't get like a name. 124 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:24,920 You didn't know who he was. It was just this was somebody 125 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:29,120 who was a quote sperm donor, which we hear yes, sometimes, 126 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:34,400 which I'm assuming when you're dad said it, he did not mean it 127 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:37,679 like truly your mom went and found a donor. 128 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:41,480 It was the more like derogatory sperm donor. 129 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:44,720 Exactly. He was emphasizing the fact that 130 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:48,240 this isn't an important person, this isn't someone you need to 131 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:51,320 worry about. I'm your dad, but you just need 132 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:53,360 to know the logistics kind of a thing. 133 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:58,440 Another thing I now realize as an adult, it's strange that my 134 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:02,680 mom wasn't present with him to tell me and she didn't even know 135 00:09:02,680 --> 00:09:06,360 that he was doing it at that moment. 136 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:10,920 She has since told me that they knew they were going to have to 137 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:14,560 tell me because so many people knew and they had talked to 138 00:09:14,560 --> 00:09:18,280 someone at their church who told them that like 11 was the 139 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:22,000 perfect age to find out. I don't believe there is a 140 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:26,440 perfect age to find out. I generally speaking think the 141 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:29,240 earlier the better, but this is a time. 142 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:33,960 I mean, this was I, this was a season of my life when I was 143 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:36,640 going from actually, it was puberty. 144 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:39,520 Basically, you're going from a kid and you're transitioning 145 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:42,640 into a teenager. And it was an interesting time 146 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:46,080 to find out. And I remember basically kind of 147 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:52,720 just carrying this news silently that whole day, just wanting to 148 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:55,840 cry. But I learned quickly that I had 149 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:59,000 to be careful with my raised dad's feelings. 150 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:04,040 Basically, I didn't feel free to ask questions or talk about it. 151 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:09,400 Later that evening, my mom had a chance to get me alone. 152 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:14,880 She made it clear right away that it she was a safe space to 153 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:18,360 ask questions to. And I got a totally different 154 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:23,320 picture from her that night. She said, essentially, this was 155 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:27,080 not just a sperm donor. This was someone she was engaged 156 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:30,440 to. This is someone who was excited 157 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:32,760 to learn about my mom's pregnancy. 158 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:36,880 This is someone who was devastated to be cut out of the 159 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:41,120 picture. And I was given a name and some 160 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:46,600 general details like his age, you know, roughly his location. 161 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:50,840 And that really, I mean, to this day that information has changed 162 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:53,880 everything. I don't think it would be easier 163 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:58,600 if he were a sperm donor or a one night stand or someone who 164 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,720 wanted nothing to do with me. That would be a different kind 165 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:04,600 of hard. But it was certainly hard to 166 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:10,360 hear that this is someone who wanted me and it's someone I 167 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:14,480 don't even know. She offered to connect you to 168 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:16,480 him. Did she know where he was or or 169 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:18,680 was that even a conversation at that point? 170 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:24,320 No, absolutely not. And in back to the fact that my 171 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:28,800 raised dad was very unconventional, my family was 172 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:32,760 getting ready to pack up and move overseas at this time. 173 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:38,560 We actually spent a year living in a third world country, which 174 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:42,640 I already felt like I had this news and I had no way of 175 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:45,840 connecting with it. Like now as an adult, I would, 176 00:11:46,560 --> 00:11:50,240 you know, Google things. I would go on an information 177 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:52,680 hunt. That just wasn't an option back 178 00:11:52,680 --> 00:11:54,240 then. I didn't even have a picture. 179 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:57,000 My mom had not saved a single picture of him. 180 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:01,640 So then we moved to this third world country, and it just felt 181 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:06,560 like I was even more detached from being able to obtain 182 00:12:06,560 --> 00:12:11,240 anything, any of the information that I was just so hungry for. 183 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:15,040 And I kept waiting for the day that I wouldn't think about 184 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:17,400 this, that I wouldn't obsess about this. 185 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:22,600 And it just never came. So we moved back to the States. 186 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:27,920 We move an hour and a half away from where we had been living 187 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:32,760 prior to living overseas. I enter high school, I do high 188 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:36,840 school very normally and we manage to stay, stay in the same 189 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:40,480 spot for four years. And as I was approaching the end 190 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:44,600 of high school, one of my friends at the time encouraged 191 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:48,880 me to take action on this. She said, it's been 7 years that 192 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:52,920 you've known, so it doesn't seem like your fascination and 193 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:54,440 interest in this is going to go away. 194 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:57,160 She's like, just reach out and see what happens. 195 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:02,680 So at the time, with just the knowledge of his name and 196 00:13:02,680 --> 00:13:07,880 roughly his location, I paid $35 back then. 197 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:11,200 This was how you obtained an accurate address. 198 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:14,040 And that was a lot of money for a senior in high school back 199 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:16,360 then. But I paid the $35. 200 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,920 I got his name and address, and I just sat on it for a while. 201 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:22,600 And then I wrote a handwritten letter. 202 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:27,640 I included a few pictures. And I was just so terrified to 203 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:31,800 send the darn thing. And I think the main reason I 204 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:37,240 always suppress this so much, my desire to know him, my desire to 205 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:40,200 reach out, it always went back to my raised dad. 206 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:45,040 I just knew it wouldn't go well. So my friend takes the letter 207 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:48,040 for me. She uses her own address as the 208 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:51,360 return label. And she's like, I'm not going to 209 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,000 tell you when I mail this. I'm just going to mail it and 210 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:58,080 we're going to see what happens. So the letter is in her hands 211 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:00,880 and the weeks and months start rolling. 212 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:05,560 By during this time, what are you hoping once that letter is 213 00:14:05,560 --> 00:14:08,720 sent and reaches your biological father, I could. 214 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:13,440 Not picture what I wanted or how this would work out or what it 215 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:16,840 would look like as that was my hesitation in reaching out. 216 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:22,280 I couldn't picture how this was going to work, but I just knew 217 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:27,680 that I couldn't keep living feeling so unsettled about it. 218 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:33,480 So I really went into it blindly, just hoping for 219 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:37,920 basically internal resolution. I just wanted some sort of peace 220 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:39,880 with it. Resolution. 221 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:45,480 Even him just telling me like acknowledging that I was there 222 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:49,160 and you know, saying I don't want to meet you or whatever, 223 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:50,920 even that would have been enough for me. 224 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:52,680 It would have been just been resolution. 225 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:56,960 The whole thing always felt so open-ended and it's hard to live 226 00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:59,880 with that. But my mom really assured me 227 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,560 she's like, he's not going to not want to meet you. 228 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:07,280 She's like, I know this man. She's like he's probably thought 229 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:09,960 about you every day since you've been born. 230 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:13,320 And so your mom knew that you were sending a letter to him. 231 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:16,520 Yes. OK, Did your dad know? 232 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:18,320 No. OK. 233 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:21,160 So you said you graduated high? School, yes. 234 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,840 I graduate high school, I start college. 235 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:28,320 I pretty much lost touch with that friend and I don't remember 236 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:31,160 exactly how long. It wasn't a full year, it was 237 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:33,240 like 9-10 months, something like that. 238 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:36,920 I get out of class one day and see I have a voicemail from her 239 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:39,360 and I instantly knew what it was about. 240 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:41,960 And she's like, Yep, you got to come to my house. 241 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:46,360 You got to pick up this letter, drive out to her house, pick up 242 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:51,120 this FedEx looking envelope. It was not handwritten like mine 243 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:54,160 was, but there was a single photo of him. 244 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:58,960 And so this is the first time I had ever laid eyes on his face 245 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:03,040 after, you know, 7-8 years of carrying this knowledge. 246 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:07,200 The letter was pretty, wasn't super lovey dovey. 247 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:11,120 It was pretty professional, informative. 248 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:14,040 I mean details I had always wondered about. 249 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:16,320 Is he married? Does he have any kids? 250 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:19,160 What does he do for work? All of that was disclosed. 251 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:23,400 He was married. He had one daughter who's 252 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:27,000 surprisingly was not much younger than me. 253 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:29,440 That was very interesting thing to learn. 254 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:32,680 How close were you in age? Three years. 255 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:35,800 He is, I would say, significantly younger than my 256 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:37,800 mom. He's about 7 years younger than 257 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:41,760 my mom. So he was very young when this 258 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:43,880 happened. And so it was a little 259 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:47,800 surprising for me to learn only three years later he had another 260 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:50,200 child, but that was his only other child. 261 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:54,280 So he ends the letter with here's my e-mail address. 262 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:56,440 Let's move this conversation to e-mail. 263 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:00,680 So we e-mail back and forth for a few months and then he 264 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:06,480 suggests meeting. So I had to move back home. 265 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:09,680 This is in between my freshman and sophomore year college. 266 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:13,920 I had to move back home for the summer, terrified of what my 267 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:18,319 raised dad will think and handle this news and everything. 268 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:22,400 But now that we're getting to the point of me meeting my bio 269 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:28,079 dad, I just felt like I can't. I can't not tell him I'm living 270 00:17:28,079 --> 00:17:31,920 in their house. So I told him and it did not go 271 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:36,360 well, but I just somehow had the courage to keep moving forward 272 00:17:36,360 --> 00:17:39,880 with everything anyway so. What was his reaction? 273 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:43,400 What did he say? He said something and it's going 274 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:47,160 to sound like I'm making excuses for him, but I do know the one 275 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:50,040 thing I do know is he did love me. 276 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:55,640 I, I believe he still loves me and he just has this personality 277 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:59,880 and this impulsivity that he can tend to say pretty damaging 278 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:02,440 things. And so he said something I will 279 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:07,280 unfortunately never forget. And it was, well, go spend the 280 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:09,120 next 20 years with your real dad then. 281 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:13,320 I knew he didn't mean it. I knew we'd get past it or 282 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:16,280 whatever. But it's still to this day just 283 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:18,600 that was a very hurtful thing to say. 284 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:21,440 So. That's that's a lot, especially 285 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:25,200 when you haven't really connected even and this is the 286 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:30,600 only dad you've really known so. Yeah, the adults in my life just 287 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:34,680 approached this very Gray situation so black and white. 288 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:40,600 And I have learned as an adult myself and a parent myself, me 289 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:45,680 knowing my biological dad did not mean that I could not have a 290 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:47,840 great relationship with my raised dad. 291 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:51,400 In fact, it probably would have been better because this big 292 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:56,120 thing wouldn't have been suppressed and associated with 293 00:18:56,120 --> 00:19:00,040 so much guilt. So meeting my biological dad, so 294 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:04,000 he picks the perfect middle location, 'cause, you know, at 295 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:07,400 this time we're living an hour and a half away from each other. 296 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:11,960 I don't think I've ever been so nervous in my entire life. 297 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:16,240 I was 18 years old. I'm driving this beater car. 298 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:20,600 I'm meeting him in a big city with my MapQuest. 299 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:24,760 With my printed out MapQuest. My hands were. 300 00:19:25,120 --> 00:19:28,200 Yes. Yes, shaking and sweating. 301 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:31,200 And I can't believe I'm doing this huge thing. 302 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:35,440 We met at a coffee shop and I remember walking up just like, 303 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:38,800 my heart is racing so fast. I'm like, how am I even gonna do 304 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:40,280 this? Like, how do I bring myself to 305 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:43,000 do this? Because I just have never been 306 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:47,560 so scared my whole life. And the coffee shop is busy, 307 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:52,240 very busy. But the front of it is glass. 308 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:56,000 And before I'd even opened the door, I spotted him. 309 00:19:56,520 --> 00:20:02,120 I immediately became completely calm, like instantly calm. 310 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:06,120 Open the door to the coffee shop, go sit right across from 311 00:20:06,120 --> 00:20:09,040 him. And all nerves and anxiety and 312 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:14,320 everything vanished. And it was absolutely that 313 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:18,840 feeling of this is a person I have known my whole life that I 314 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:21,840 am just now meeting. I look a lot like him. 315 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:28,920 We have very similar features, mannerisms, and I just felt like 316 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,120 the chemistry was there instantly. 317 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:35,040 We hung out that day for like 5 or 6 hours. 318 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:38,800 We went to a restaurant for lunch, we got ice cream. 319 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:40,320 We were walking all around this city. 320 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:43,400 I think we both kind of felt like, how does this end? 321 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:47,040 We don't want this to end. Like we've waited 18 years to 322 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,480 know each other. It's finally here. 323 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:55,080 I remember feeling like just this relief of like, thank God I 324 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:59,960 I don't have to live with this big question mark in my mind 325 00:20:59,960 --> 00:21:01,000 anymore. I know who he is. 326 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:03,040 He's going to be a part of my life forever now. 327 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,880 It felt so. I don't even know how to 328 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:10,440 describe it. It just felt so just like things 329 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:12,080 finally becoming complete. Yeah. 330 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:17,440 I was concerned about my raise dad, but it just felt so like a 331 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:20,880 coming home moment. We departed that day and it did 332 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:25,080 kind of feel like, well, what? Now I'm in college, You live far 333 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:27,400 away. Where do we go from here? 334 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:30,760 We tended to e-mail a lot in those years. 335 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:32,480 That was just how we kept in touch. 336 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:38,200 And my older sister, who keep in mind is 8 years older than me 337 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:42,560 because she, you know, came around so early before that 338 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:48,520 divorce and everything, and also an incredibly supportive person 339 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:52,320 from day one with this. And also what's so interesting 340 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:58,040 is at the time that my mom was with my biological dad, which 341 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:01,520 was really, I've learned as an adult, only one year, it felt 342 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:03,800 like they were together a lot longer, but they were really 343 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:08,040 only together one year. My sister was 7 at the time, and 344 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:11,520 she remembers him. She remembers that whole year. 345 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:15,360 She also has nothing but positive things to say about my 346 00:22:15,360 --> 00:22:19,240 biological dad. And she also had to carry this 347 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:24,760 knowledge and the first, yeah. 7:00 So she remembered, yes. 348 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:30,040 And the 1st 11 years of my life she had to carry the knowledge 349 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,840 knowing I didn't know. She was always afraid of me 350 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:40,920 finding out because she wanted a wholesome family and she knew as 351 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:45,000 soon as I found out that it would basically change me 352 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,400 forever. And she wasn't wrong. 353 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:53,080 But she's just been incredibly supportive and there for me from 354 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:56,960 day one with all of this. So at the time that I'm in 355 00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:59,840 college and kind of dealing with this long distance thing with my 356 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:03,640 bio dad, my sister lived near him. 357 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,640 So she was always a landing pad for me. 358 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:11,680 I would come stay with her, I would see my bio dad and she was 359 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:13,520 just supportive of it and it was great. 360 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:19,840 So the second time I see my bio dad, it's only a couple maybe a 361 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:24,160 month later. And it's this side of town which 362 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:27,840 is where my sister lives. This is close to where he lives. 363 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,600 This is where his whole relationship with my mom 364 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:34,480 happened. And the second time we got 365 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:41,640 together was the best time of connection and just kind of 366 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:45,480 opening up of this thing we both carried for so long. 367 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:50,480 And the bond was really solidifying and it was just a 368 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:54,120 beautiful, beautiful time together that I will truly 369 00:23:54,120 --> 00:23:57,040 remember forever. The get together was kind of 370 00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,840 wrapping up. And he's like, hey, I would love 371 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:02,760 to drive you by the home I grew up in. 372 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,360 And I'm like, I'd love to, you know, I am on cloud 9 at this 373 00:24:06,360 --> 00:24:09,480 point. And so we're driving by his old 374 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,080 home. I'm looking at it and all of a 375 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:15,240 sudden he's like, Ellen, I'm really sorry. 376 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:18,480 Like I gotta pull over. I got to get out of the car for 377 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,160 a minute and I'm like, what on earth? 378 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:26,600 And it was his wife. His wife had shown up at our 379 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,560 second get together. And it became clear to me pretty 380 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:31,840 quickly that she was not happy about things. 381 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:39,520 So again, I'm on such cloud 9 and and so young at the time 382 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:44,000 that I on your podcast, I've heard so many people mention how 383 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:48,160 they considered the families before reaching out. 384 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:52,440 I, I'm ashamed to admit that I hadn't, I hadn't even factored 385 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:57,280 that in, but I was so young. Now I would factor that in, but 386 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:03,800 he also he had not mentioned that his wife might be having an 387 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,760 issue with this, so she not. Shows up. 388 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:10,480 She just shows up during. She shows up, yes, OK. 389 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:15,040 And I and her tone was harsh, like it became very clear right 390 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:19,920 away that this is not a situation where she's totally OK 391 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:24,000 with this and supportive and whatever, but clearly he's been 392 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:28,360 going along with it anyway. So that wrapped up the visit. 393 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:33,160 And what is so crazy to me now, I look back on that and I didn't 394 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,520 put too much thought or stock in that. 395 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,440 I was on such cloud 9. I'm like, well, things are just 396 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,800 going to continue how they've been going. 397 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,320 And I was wrong. So the third time we got 398 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:50,080 together, his wife was there when I showed up and he didn't 399 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,040 mention that she was going to be there. 400 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:57,880 The tone, certainly she was softer, she was working harder 401 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:02,960 to be nicer to me this time, but it was still clear to me that it 402 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,560 was not OK. And the conversation was very 403 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,680 different. It went from these meetings were 404 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:13,000 about me and my dad getting to know each other, talking through 405 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:18,520 a lot of these painful things from the past to just small talk 406 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:22,360 with me and her. And she did talk quite a bit 407 00:26:22,360 --> 00:26:27,160 about their daughter, which again at this time it's this is 408 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:31,680 such a big mental thing to carry that I didn't. 409 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,960 Now I have the bandwidth and have put in a lot of thought 410 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,520 about my half sister, but at the time I had not. 411 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,080 And the way that they were talking about her, it seemed 412 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,200 like she knew about the situation. 413 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:48,120 So I'm in college, I'm living far away. 414 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,880 This goes on for about 3 years where I'm seeing him and his 415 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:59,040 wife two to three times a year. It's very small, talky, it's 416 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:05,360 very kind of controlled, formal. And in the chaos of my college 417 00:27:05,360 --> 00:27:07,680 years and trying to figure out what I was going to do with my 418 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:12,520 life, I didn't really stop to think where is this going? 419 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:16,080 What's going to become of this? I was just kind of trying to get 420 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,560 through college and figured out what I was going to do after 421 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,400 that. In hindsight, I'm sure I was 422 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:26,080 talking to them about possibilities I saw for myself. 423 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,560 Like at one point I thought I was going to join the military. 424 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:30,200 I had talked about the Peace Corps. 425 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,560 I had talked about moving to different states. 426 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:36,920 But as college came to an end, I had no plan. 427 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:39,880 I had no job. I had no money. 428 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:44,480 My older sister so welcoming and supportive for me was like just 429 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,520 come live with me for a little while and you can figure out 430 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:52,880 what's next. So I'm getting together with my 431 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:57,080 bio dad and his wife about a month before I'm moving in with 432 00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,520 my sister. So now the plan is clear. 433 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,600 Or it was like oh she might do all these different things but 434 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,000 now we see what the next step is. 435 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,840 And I for the life of me cannot remember the full detail of this 436 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:14,920 get together. I don't know if it is a a trauma 437 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,880 response, something in my mind trying to protect me. 438 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:22,680 All I remember is that a confrontation started out of 439 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,720 nowhere. I remember thinking this came 440 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:29,160 out of thin air because I am just about the most non 441 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,280 confrontational person ever. So is my bio dad. 442 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:38,920 Something started with his wife and like I remember pulling away 443 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:43,440 in my car kind of in a frenzy, like my dad and his wife were 444 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,120 arguing. I I don't know. 445 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:48,480 I got in my car, I drove to my sister's house. 446 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,360 I was crying. My bio dad started calling me. 447 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:56,840 My sister remembers me talking on the phone with him and I 448 00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:00,920 apparently on that phone call I said to him, could we start just 449 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:02,200 getting together? You and I? 450 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,560 I think this is something I had been thinking for a long time. 451 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:11,800 Like us meeting this late in life, Like it is not out of the 452 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:16,120 question to ask for a few get togethers where we can just kind 453 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,880 of get to know each. Like almost like a, a therapy 454 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,840 session where we deal with some deep stuff, share some stuff, 455 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:26,640 you know, And we just three years of knowing him had gone by 456 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:30,960 and we just weren't getting that opportunity because I felt like 457 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:37,200 I had to keep his wife happy and keep things small and light and 458 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,320 whatever. So we have this phone call. 459 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:42,680 I'm honest with my feelings about that. 460 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,160 I'm crying, whatever. The call ends. 461 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:51,080 Then I'm thrown into the chaos of packing up my college life 462 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:56,080 across the state, moving in with my sister, finding a new job. 463 00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:01,320 And during that time, he was sending me very long emails and 464 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,880 I wasn't giving them my full attention. 465 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:08,520 I remember at this time feeling like I just got to park this for 466 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:13,720 a minute because it doesn't seem like there's a resolution and I 467 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:17,760 got to take care of like my basic needs like moving and 468 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:21,200 finding a job. We've always communicated 469 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,240 through e-mail, sometimes slow, sometimes fast. 470 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:29,560 A lot of times they were long emails and so a couple months go 471 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:34,040 by and I really start to give those emails my full attention. 472 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:38,480 And this is what is so annoying about the time that this 473 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,800 happened. Nowadays you have the same phone 474 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:45,680 number and e-mail address for multiple decades. 475 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:50,880 Back then, like as the tech boom was happening, like millennials 476 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:52,400 didn't know what they were doing. 477 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,960 We had like 6 different e-mail addresses and then. 478 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,840 AOL. Yeah, Hotmail is the offender 479 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,240 here. And Hotmail is like notorious 480 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,960 for people not being able to get back in and all this stuff. 481 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:09,080 So this, these, these intense emails were happening on Hotmail 482 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:13,920 of all accounts. And so I cannot access that 483 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,440 account anymore. I can't remember what these 484 00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:20,720 emails say. I journaled cryptically about 485 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:24,440 them. The one clue that I had to go on 486 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:28,000 is that I journaled at this time. 487 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,680 I'm plagued with thoughts of my bio dad. 488 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:36,840 I really need to reply to his emails and I do remember at one 489 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:40,520 point I did reply and then I didn't hear anything. 490 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,800 I'm like, it's OK, you took a long time to respond. 491 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:45,960 He's going to take a long time to respond. 492 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:50,920 Well, a full year goes by and I'm now living locally to him. 493 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:56,440 At this Phase, I started to figure out that I could do some 494 00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,920 online researching sleuthing if you will. 495 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:04,200 So I start looking up his daughter on Facebook and 496 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:09,040 certainly was seeing pictures and clues and all this stuff. 497 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:13,280 Signs of life, I guess is one way to put it. 498 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:19,120 And so all of a sudden, and I wasn't again, this is such a 499 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,800 there is this book I read and there's a quote from this. 500 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:26,480 It's a book written by an NPE. It's an amazing read. 501 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:29,840 It's called A Chance in the World by Steve Pemberton. 502 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,440 Oh, I haven't heard of that one. Oh, you will read it in like a 503 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:36,240 day. It's not very long and it's 504 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:39,920 riveting. And he has a quote from his book 505 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:46,000 that has just described to AT what this has been like carrying 506 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,000 this news for so many years. And it's my quest to find my 507 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:53,320 past would return again and again in the years to come, like 508 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:57,840 a lighthouse beacon that flashes bright and then fades only to 509 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:02,600 return again. So this is how this has felt 510 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:06,800 like I, I have gone through phases where I'm thinking about 511 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,000 this a lot. I'm researching it online and 512 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,600 then it fades away and I'm not really thinking about it for 513 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:14,760 several months, years, whatever it is. 514 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,360 And then it comes back again. It always comes back. 515 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:23,280 So that quote, so descriptive of what this has been like. 516 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:28,360 So as it pertains to the the looking up online and stuff 517 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:30,920 every couple months, years, whatever. 518 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:35,640 So I'm randomly looking up my half sister on Facebook and I 519 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:40,640 see that we have a very familiar mutual friend. 520 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:47,120 And what I mean by that is at this time this was someone I had 521 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:51,440 loosely known my whole life, but I had moved back to this side of 522 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:55,360 town and I was trying to make friends and stuff and I was 523 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:59,680 hanging out with this person. We had recently at this time 524 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:04,440 gone to a wedding together and I see that he is a mutual friend 525 00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:06,960 of my half sister. And I'm like, I just have to 526 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:11,840 know how they know each other. I didn't think the situation all 527 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:15,120 the way through. And I just like a reaction, 528 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:21,360 called him and I'm like, before I get into anything, I have to 529 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,679 express the confidentiality of what I'm about to tell you. 530 00:34:25,199 --> 00:34:27,600 He's like, what the heck? Like what? 531 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:31,840 So I'm like, do you swear to me that you will keep this 532 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:36,800 information to yourself? And he swears and I'm like, OK, 533 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:40,840 how do you know so and so. And his immediate response is 534 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:45,960 she's my cousin. And I'm like OK well we've been 535 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,560 hanging out. I have to tell you I am related 536 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:52,040 to this person and I explain how And he is mind blown. 537 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:57,240 He has known my dad, his wife and their daughter his whole 538 00:34:57,240 --> 00:34:59,720 life. Come to find out they are not 539 00:34:59,720 --> 00:35:02,400 biologically related. But he had always referred to 540 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:06,360 her as his cousin because their moms are best friends and all 541 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:10,880 this stuff. And this was so just insane to 542 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,040 figure out and learn. As the call is wrapping up, I'm 543 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,800 like just a reminder. This is so confidential. 544 00:35:17,240 --> 00:35:21,640 But also at this time I had not heard from my bio dad in a year. 545 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:27,000 So couple months go by. He's like Ellen, sorry I 546 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:28,600 couldn't keep the news to myself. 547 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:33,120 I I told your half sister that was how I learned that. 548 00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:36,400 So up until that point, she didn't know about my existence. 549 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,280 She had no idea. So she had no idea. 550 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:43,520 What was her reaction. I have no idea. 551 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:48,480 So, and I think again, I can't remember the details of this, 552 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:55,520 which is so unlike me, but I was so angry at this person that I 553 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:59,080 was expressing my anger and he kind of instantly shut me down. 554 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,960 He blocked me on Facebook. He stopped talking to me. 555 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:06,200 So I got no details. All I knew is that he had told 556 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,400 her. And I'm like, well, this is 557 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:12,760 really going to seal the coffin of like, I don't think I'm going 558 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:17,280 to hear from my bio dad now really any anytime soon. 559 00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:23,440 And that was 15 years ago and I still have not heard anything. 560 00:36:23,720 --> 00:36:29,000 So like this lighthouse, it's come and gone, but I have gone 561 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:33,200 through, especially in the last 15 years, big things in my life. 562 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:38,960 My career, getting married to my husband, having children, 563 00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:41,760 becoming an adult. The last time I saw him I was 564 00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:45,400 this college student. And now I'm this full grown 565 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:49,840 woman with a life. So this summer, and this is 566 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:53,520 after a phase of not thinking about it, not researching it for 567 00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,920 lots of years. I don't even know how it was 568 00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:02,360 like osmosis out of thin air. I find myself looking up my half 569 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:09,600 sister on Facebook and that started the I'm still in it. 570 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:14,400 It has started the biggest, deepest dive I've ever gone into 571 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,080 this. There's someone that I she's not 572 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:20,960 a therapist, she's a life coach, but I feel very safe with her. 573 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:24,000 I've been working with her for the past decade. 574 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:28,240 She's really familiar with this situation and the way she 575 00:37:28,240 --> 00:37:31,840 describes what I'm going through right now is an excavation. 576 00:37:32,240 --> 00:37:36,440 I'm examining the whole timeline of everything that happened even 577 00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:42,160 before I was born. I did an ancestry DNA test and 578 00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:45,560 honestly the DNA test itself didn't really tell me anything I 579 00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:49,200 didn't know. It has been the the way you can 580 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:54,080 put your family tree together and figure out who is who and 581 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:57,000 whatever. That has been the most mind 582 00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:01,120 blowing and I have gone so much deeper than I ever thought 583 00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:06,400 possible on my paternal side. I almost feel like I question if 584 00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:12,600 I know more about my lineage than my bio dad does because 585 00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:17,160 it's just it's been so deep. So back to my half sister. 586 00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,200 Her Facebook profile picture looked very bridal. 587 00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,320 And so I'm thinking to myself, oh she got married. 588 00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:25,480 I'm sure she had a wedding website. 589 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:29,840 Whatever I Google that wedding website pops up right away. 590 00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:33,400 At this point she hadn't gotten married yet. 591 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:37,200 I saw the details, the date, the location, everything. 592 00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:43,040 It was that very same date I was going to a wedding in that very 593 00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:46,920 same city and it ironically or not so ironically it was for a 594 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,520 relative on my raised dad's side. 595 00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,320 It just kept getting weirder and weirder. 596 00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:55,240 I couldn't stop researching things. 597 00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:58,800 I just kept digging and digging and digging. 598 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:04,000 Side note here, one of the last things I remember my bio dad 599 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:07,040 saying to me is my parents want to meet you. 600 00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:12,160 And my last grandparent that I knew died when I was 15. 601 00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:15,720 So I have spent a lot of my life without grandparents. 602 00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:18,960 Something about that really, really appealed to me. 603 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:23,200 Like I would love to meet my biological grandparents, but 604 00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:28,000 then obviously this long period of whatever you want to call it, 605 00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:32,680 ghosting, separation, whatever has gone by. 606 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:37,240 In 2020, when I was going through one of my periods of 607 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:41,320 looking up my bio family, I came across my grandfather's 608 00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:46,000 obituary. He lived to a good age and 609 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:51,200 something about it was just very, very hard to see that 610 00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:54,160 final like I had carried it in my mind. 611 00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,080 He wants me to meet his parents. And then it was like, Oh well, 612 00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:00,560 that opportunity is gone. But I knew my grandmother was 613 00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:05,240 still alive this whole month. It was this summer that I'm 614 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,400 discovering things about my half sister's wedding and everything. 615 00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:14,520 I started to feel this real urgency of, I don't know how to 616 00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:16,160 reach out. I don't know how to insert 617 00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:20,320 myself but I kind of feel like I got to meet my grandma now or. 618 00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:22,960 The opportunity is going to be gone. 619 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:26,520 And so I became obsessed with this idea. 620 00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:31,480 My dad is one of five siblings. And I'm like, maybe I just 621 00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:35,280 contact one of the other siblings and say, could I meet 622 00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:36,960 the grandma? You know, whatever. 623 00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:43,240 Well, like a month into this journey, I her obituary pops up. 624 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:47,960 Crazy or not so crazy. The day that this all started 625 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:51,720 for me, and I know the exact day because I have screenshots in my 626 00:40:51,720 --> 00:40:55,680 phone of just stuff I was finding, is the day that she 627 00:40:55,680 --> 00:41:00,320 died. And so part of me feels like I'm 628 00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:04,040 not very religious, but I am very spiritual and I'm like, did 629 00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:08,000 she get to the other side? See the situation for what it 630 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:10,640 is. And now she is. 631 00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:16,400 She's present with me. And This is why I have not only 632 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:21,480 the obsession with resolution and what happened and peeling 633 00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:25,280 back all the layers. I have never had an interest in 634 00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,000 my genealogy the way I have this time. 635 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:32,280 Never his siblings. I want to know everything about 636 00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:35,160 his and beyond as far back as it will go. 637 00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:37,720 And I've learned countless interesting things. 638 00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:41,960 And there's just a big part of me that wonders, is this my 639 00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:45,520 grandmother on the other side giving me a push like, 'cause 640 00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,080 just the timing is just so ironic. 641 00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:51,080 The day she passed is the day this all started for me. 642 00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:53,320 That's incredible. Yeah. 643 00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:56,280 And I'm sorry that you didn't get the chance to meet her. 644 00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:58,440 Thank you. Your grandfather. 645 00:41:58,920 --> 00:41:59,720 Thank you. Yeah. 646 00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:05,160 It's been 15 years or more now at this point since you've heard 647 00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:10,400 from your biological father, Do you think that like he tried to 648 00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:13,880 reach out to your old e-mail? Does he have your new phone 649 00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:15,760 number? I mean, have there been any of 650 00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:19,400 those what ifs of like does he have your latest contact info? 651 00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:23,520 I assume you've gone down that rabbit hole and and there's been 652 00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:28,160 opportunity, but I'm just like the fact that he just completely 653 00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:32,840 dropped off is so. Crazy strange, yes, I'm 654 00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:35,440 wrestling with these things myself. 655 00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:38,720 And the communication was certainly messy. 656 00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:43,120 You know, the finicky emails and the change in phone number. 657 00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:49,000 However, the thing I always come back to is I googled myself. 658 00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:53,640 I googled him, it's very easy to find both of our contact 659 00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:56,920 information. In addition, I have sent him 660 00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:02,400 emails as recently as like 2013 with my current e-mail address. 661 00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:06,800 Now I do question though, did those reach him Because the 662 00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:10,200 e-mail address I was emailing him it was like a cable e-mail 663 00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:12,320 address. So if he's not subscribed to 664 00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:14,440 that cable anymore, he probably doesn't have that e-mail 665 00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:17,080 address. In addition, I know his wife's 666 00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:22,440 not happy about this. So is something getting lost in, 667 00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:24,040 you know? Yeah. 668 00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:28,040 I'm telling you, it's becoming more and more difficult to live 669 00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:32,720 with these unknowns. And I never thought the pain of 670 00:43:32,720 --> 00:43:36,960 the what I have perceived as a ghosting from him has been so 671 00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:40,280 intense at times that I've just convinced myself, like, I'm 672 00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:42,400 done. I'm never reaching out to him. 673 00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:47,120 But the deeper and deeper I get into this excavation, I don't 674 00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:48,680 think that's going to be an option. 675 00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:52,280 I think I'm going to have to reach out in some way, if 676 00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:57,760 nothing else but foreclosure. And I do have to say the wedding 677 00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:00,200 thing with his daughter got weirder and weirder. 678 00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:05,320 So about a month before the wedding, I visited the wedding 679 00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:08,680 website again and it had been updated. 680 00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:14,200 And the ceremony, the address to where the ceremony was, was on 681 00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:19,520 the same complex as the ceremony I was attending at the very same 682 00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:23,640 time. So obviously I knew like I'm 683 00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:26,240 probably not just going to see my bio dad standing in the 684 00:44:26,240 --> 00:44:27,960 parking lot or anything like that. 685 00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:32,520 But the irony, the parallels, the fact that I knew about it, 686 00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:36,960 you know, my husband has even said to me, if you had not gone 687 00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:39,840 through one of your periods of discovery, we would have just 688 00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:42,400 gone to that wedding and you would have had no idea that that 689 00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,360 other wedding next door was your sister's. 690 00:44:45,720 --> 00:44:49,680 There was a special moment after the wedding that we attended. 691 00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:52,880 I'm like, come on, Hon. We got to take a ride around the 692 00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:54,760 block. I just got to see what I can 693 00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:58,240 see. And the things on their side of 694 00:44:58,240 --> 00:45:00,080 the complex look pretty wrapped up. 695 00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:04,120 A lot of cars were gone. There weren't people outside but 696 00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:07,480 I did manage to get a really cool glimpse. 697 00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:12,200 It was like a party bus and my half sister, her brand new 698 00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:15,400 husband, their whole bridal party was standing. 699 00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:18,440 They all looked so relaxed and calm. 700 00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,680 They were taking pictures. My sister and her husband had 701 00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:25,840 two dogs on leashes. She looked the most stunning 702 00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:29,080 I've ever seen her. As someone who's randomly looked 703 00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:33,480 her up online for years, I managed to get this image that 704 00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:40,440 day that I will have forever so. That's such a kind view of it. 705 00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:42,920 You just sound really happy for her. 706 00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:46,400 I do, I do. And as painful as this whole 707 00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:48,840 thing has been, because a question that comes up a lot 708 00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:52,680 when I'm talking about this is, does it bother you that your 709 00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:55,760 sister learned about you and you've never heard from her? 710 00:45:56,360 --> 00:46:01,160 And it did for many years. And I was convinced she doesn't 711 00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:04,720 want to know me, she's an only child, blah blah blah. 712 00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:10,640 Well in this period of excavation called up the person 713 00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:14,600 who told her. We also had not talked in 15-16 714 00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:16,760 years. But I'm like I need some 715 00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:20,840 resolution with him because I also had gone all this time 716 00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:24,200 without knowing the full details of how he told her how she 717 00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:28,120 reacted. It was so much worse than I 718 00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:35,200 could have ever imagined. He texted her from some app 719 00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:39,560 where it was some unknown number that you didn't know who it was 720 00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:42,600 coming from and you couldn't respond to that number and he 721 00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:44,360 wasn't sure if she was getting them. 722 00:46:44,720 --> 00:46:49,000 So for a period of months, over and over again, he was texting 723 00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:51,320 her. You have 1/2 sister on your 724 00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:54,640 paternal side. Like how creepy. 725 00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:59,600 What a weird way to find out. And then eventually they did the 726 00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:01,560 work work to figure out who it was. 727 00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:05,000 She sent him a Facebook message and said, I know it's you. 728 00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:08,600 Stop sending me these texts. They blocked each other. 729 00:47:08,720 --> 00:47:11,960 Her mother called him. They had a confrontation, had 730 00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:13,640 words. They blocked each other. 731 00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:17,560 So he also has had no communication with them for all 732 00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:20,440 this time. But learning the specifics of 733 00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:25,000 that was pretty eye opening. She knows nothing about me. 734 00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:29,280 She could think that I am a part of this creepy way that she 735 00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:33,120 found out, you know, So I'm also like, I have now looked at 736 00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:35,720 myself and been like, well, you have not reached out to her 737 00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:37,560 either. Sure. 738 00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:41,880 And I mean, that's I'm, I'm, yeah, I'm feeling a lot of 739 00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:45,560 empathy for your sister right now because what a horrible way 740 00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:50,120 to find out and then have to confront your parents with that 741 00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:52,840 information. And and then, yeah, she doesn't 742 00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:57,720 know anything about you either. Like, really at all, except for 743 00:47:57,720 --> 00:48:00,920 maybe what her mother has shared, which her mom is not 744 00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:03,280 happy about the situation. So yeah, that's a really 745 00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:08,800 compassionate view of her. And so do you feel like you're 746 00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:11,680 going to reach out to her, or do you feel like you're going to 747 00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:14,800 reach out to your biological father first? 748 00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:18,960 If you do, it's I'm. First of all, the idea of all of 749 00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:23,680 it is so terrifying because as far as I mean, as far as I know, 750 00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:26,240 the situation hasn't changed on their end of things. 751 00:48:26,240 --> 00:48:31,920 As far as my bio dad is still married, I still want him to be 752 00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:34,360 married. I don't want to carry ill will 753 00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:38,840 toward his wife or anything at this point. 754 00:48:39,240 --> 00:48:43,560 Even if we could just have like phone conversations, like if I 755 00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:46,160 could just talk to him on the phone, that would be so much 756 00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:49,120 better than nothing. What's really interesting, and 757 00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:53,880 again, I just feel like this is some spiritual thing going on 758 00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:58,800 with my deceased grandmother. When I get the guts to reach out 759 00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:03,200 to someone, I believe it's going to be my aunt, my dad's sister. 760 00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:08,520 I want a layer of separation, protection, whatever you want to 761 00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:10,680 call it. And I think I'm just going to 762 00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:17,040 say to her, like, first of all, it's so cool to talk to a female 763 00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:20,000 from that side of the family. Have never done that before. 764 00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:24,400 I've seen you in photos. I feel a fondness towards you 765 00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:28,280 that I can't put into words. Would you please communicate to 766 00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:33,200 your brother that the door is open with me now or in the 767 00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:35,560 future? It will never be closed. 768 00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:40,480 Because another thing I fear is that so much time has gone by. 769 00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:46,760 I think he a possibility, thinks I've shut the door on him 770 00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:48,960 because he's ghosted me for so long. 771 00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:53,600 I want him to know. Yeah, that was a crappy thing, 772 00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:57,840 but the door is still open. And the door is still open to my 773 00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:03,160 half sister now or in the future or never, honestly, if it's 774 00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:07,000 never, it would also be really helpful to know that if they 775 00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:09,560 were to just say we don't want to know. 776 00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:14,240 You have a nice life. Really knowing what it's been 777 00:50:14,240 --> 00:50:18,200 like to carry this for so many years, even closure would be so 778 00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:21,440 welcome at this point. So I do think I'm going to reach 779 00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:24,360 out to the bio Ant at some point. 780 00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:26,840 It's just working up the nerve to do that. 781 00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:28,680 Yeah. And that that sounds like a 782 00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:32,200 smart approach because, you know, I've talked to a lot of 783 00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:35,080 people for the podcast and it does seem like having that 784 00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:38,840 layer, an aunt, a cousin, someone who's a little bit more 785 00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:42,920 removed can help facilitate connection. 786 00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:48,880 It's been a really long time since you first learned this 787 00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:52,200 information. I'm curious if you could talk 788 00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:58,440 about what it was like to learn at an age where you couldn't 789 00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:00,400 really do much with that information. 790 00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:06,600 And how the waiting and the the periods of, you know, either 791 00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:10,960 being powerless to do any research to now kind of this 792 00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:16,520 period of distance and no communication has played into 793 00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:19,520 your experience of your DNA surprise. 794 00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:24,400 Oh it's so challenging. I don't think there was a 795 00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:29,480 perfect age for me to learn really with my situation 796 00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:34,240 specifically what I really wish that the adults had done from 797 00:51:34,240 --> 00:51:38,800 the onset. Work out a Co parenting plan. 798 00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:43,560 My bio dad did want to be involved even after my mom had 799 00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:47,800 broken up with him. He wanted to know me and I do 800 00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:53,800 think that for his spouse, for my mom's spouse, it would have 801 00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:58,800 been a lot easier for everyone. Just me growing up with everyone 802 00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:02,280 knowing me. I respect that my parents knew 803 00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:06,680 they had to tell me and did it at a relatively young age, but 804 00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:11,520 they're just in my situation there wasn't a good age. 805 00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:15,560 There just wasn't because it was the hardest part of this has 806 00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:19,840 been that my bio dad wanted to be involved in was basically 807 00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:24,600 kind of shut out so. What is your relationship like 808 00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:27,520 with your parents that raised you now well? 809 00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:30,560 They are now divorced again for the second time. 810 00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:35,760 I do still loosely keep in touch with my raised dad. 811 00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:40,200 He now lives in a different state though, and I, I feel very 812 00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:43,960 sad for him because he's reaching an age where I think he 813 00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:49,120 realizes that he's made a lot of poor choices through the years 814 00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:53,800 that but I, again, I will never be like, I'm not going to talk 815 00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:55,480 to you. I'm going to shut you out. 816 00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:57,240 We don't have much of a relationship. 817 00:52:57,240 --> 00:53:04,160 But again, I just know that the, that the whole ghosting, no 818 00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:07,160 contact at all, like there's no need for that. 819 00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:11,000 So that's what that is. My relationship with my mom is 820 00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:14,520 really good. She is remarried to someone 821 00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:16,760 different now. Very happy. 822 00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:19,640 She's always been supportive of this. 823 00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:23,040 She's always let me talk about it, cry about it. 824 00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:25,640 Relationship is good there. That's amazing. 825 00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:29,120 And you've mentioned your husband a few times. 826 00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:31,440 I assume he's been a support to you. 827 00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:36,360 What has helped you over this long period of discovery and 828 00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:42,080 just navigating your experience? My husband who had the most like 829 00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:46,720 cookie cutter normal upbringing ever. 830 00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:49,840 There are times that especially when I'm going through right 831 00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:53,680 now, I feel like it's just, it's got to be so much for him. 832 00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:56,800 But he's he's strong enough to handle it. 833 00:53:56,800 --> 00:54:02,080 He is so supportive and loving. And a husband is not a 834 00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:06,800 replacement for a father, but my husband has done a phenomenal 835 00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:12,400 job loving me unconditionally and being stable for me and 836 00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:17,280 being there for me. And I can't imagine what my life 837 00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:20,640 would look like without him. And also my sister, I'll bring 838 00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:26,120 up again, has just she's been a pillar in this decade long 839 00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:29,480 journey. And I I also can't imagine where 840 00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:35,440 I'd be without her support and like willingness to listen to 841 00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:39,680 this and everything so. What advice would you give a 842 00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:43,280 parent who may be keeping adna surprise from their child? 843 00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:48,800 Stop it, you cannot carry this any longer. 844 00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:52,760 We live in a modern age. Your child at any time could do 845 00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:55,200 adna test. You do not want them to find out 846 00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:59,960 that way. It will be so much more freeing 847 00:54:59,960 --> 00:55:04,080 to you to be honest with them. What advice do you have to 848 00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:08,640 someone navigating adna surprise or who just found out that 849 00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:11,320 they're. Happy peace be with you. 850 00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:18,440 It is such a, it's such a mental load to carry and wherever 851 00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:21,080 possible. I mean, I spent so many years 852 00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:24,800 thinking I was the only person in the world with this 853 00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:26,880 situation. That's false. 854 00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:31,200 There are so many other people, so look for a community. 855 00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:36,280 Look for, even if it's someone that is not an NPE, if they feel 856 00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:40,120 particularly supportive or compassionate or willing to 857 00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:42,760 listen to you, like lean on that person. 858 00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:45,880 It's too heavy to just carry a loan. 859 00:55:46,240 --> 00:55:49,120 Ellen, thank you so much for coming on the podcast and 860 00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:52,440 sharing your story. You have been going through this 861 00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:57,360 for such a long time and you still have so much compassion 862 00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:00,800 and love and empathy for everyone involved, which is 863 00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:05,760 really admirable. I hope that you get contact with 864 00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:10,480 someone from your biological father's side soon and can maybe 865 00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:14,840 get even more peace. Yes, thank you so much, Alexis. 866 00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:19,080 And honestly, thank you so much for the work you're doing this 867 00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:23,720 for me to learn that there is a whole community of people after 868 00:56:23,720 --> 00:56:27,720 spending so many years not knowing that it's just been it's 869 00:56:27,720 --> 00:56:32,560 been an incredible resource. So thank you so much and like I 870 00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:35,600 hope you never stop. So thank you. 871 00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:37,800 Don't plan on it. OK, good. 872 00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:40,560 All right. Thanks again to Ellen for 873 00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:43,440 sharing her story. If you have Adna surprise that 874 00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:46,120 you'd like to share, please submit your story at 875 00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:52,120 dnasurprises.com and for AD free early access to episodes, join 876 00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:55,600 me over on patreon.com/DNA Surprises. 877 00:56:56,400 --> 00:57:01,200 Until next time. DNA Surprises is hosted, 878 00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:05,080 produced and edited by Me Alexis Hour Salt. 879 00:57:05,720 --> 00:57:09,880 It is mixed and mastered by Josh Auersault of Siren Recording 880 00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:10,680 Studios.