1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,880 As wild as this whole situation is, that's where my biggest 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:07,560 struggle is that she cannot show up for me. 3 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:10,360 So that's heavy shit. You know, I think it kind of 4 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:13,840 goes back to I've lived this life with my mom. 5 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:17,360 She was very, very there for me in the sense of like, I'm going 6 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:20,320 to get fed, I'm going to get taken to school, I'm going to 7 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:22,280 get faith. She reminded me of those things. 8 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:23,840 Well, you didn't have a bad childhood. 9 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:27,400 We've got a lot of darkness in front of us at this given the 10 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:34,400 situation, I tried to almost put her on this pedestal and say, oh 11 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,640 wow, this is really going to like open her up and she's going 12 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:40,720 to be available to me. And I think I just I kind of 13 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:44,920 created this fantasy of this like healed journey we were 14 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:48,240 going to go on together and she proved me wrong in no time. 15 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:53,120 So I then had to kind of over months, if not years, come to 16 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:57,440 the realization that I have this expectations of my mom that she 17 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:02,160 has never shown to me. Like, why would I expect her to 18 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:09,800 be totally vulnerable, sit and cry with me, you know, tell me 19 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:14,280 how terrible she feels when she's never given me that. 20 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:18,480 She's given me a lot of things, but she's never given me 21 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:21,200 emotional connection and support. 22 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:24,960 And so I had to come to the realization, wait a minute, 23 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:28,760 you're actually setting yourself up for failure because that's 24 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:32,520 not who she is. Just because you have this wild, 25 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:37,240 raw dynamic unfolding that still not going to break her down. 26 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:39,920 She's still going to put herself first. 27 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:41,680 She's still going to have her guard up. 28 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:46,400 And not even anything this big can allow her to connect with 29 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:49,360 you. It's my birth story that she's a 30 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:51,640 part of, and she can't tell the truth. 31 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:57,320 So I think I just had to realize if I want her in my life, I have 32 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:00,480 to accept her and the version that she is. 33 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:05,800 And then we've we've now kind of gone full circle where I only 34 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:08,479 expect from her the way that she's always been with me. 35 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:15,320 Welcome to DNA Surprises, a podcast that delves into the 36 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:18,000 world of unexpected DNA discoveries. 37 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:24,480 I'm your host Alexis, our salt. In July 2021, my life took a 38 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:29,360 surprising turn when I found out that I'm an NPE, a person who 39 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:32,200 has experienced a non paternal event. 40 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,760 In other words, my biological father isn't who I thought he 41 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:39,760 was. Join me as we explore the 42 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:44,840 stories of NP, ES, adoptees, and donor conceived people and their 43 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:47,640 families. Get ready to unravel the 44 00:02:47,640 --> 00:02:51,800 astonishing journeys that begin with a simple DNA test. 45 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:58,520 This is DNA surprises. Every DNA surprise is unique. 46 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:04,720 The Who, what, when and why surrounding an NPE vary from 47 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:09,160 person to person. Still, after nearly 100 48 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:12,480 interviews, I've noticed consistent themes in these 49 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:15,800 stories. One of those themes is a 50 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:18,920 complicated mother child relationship. 51 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:24,600 When Jennifer took her DNA test, she had no idea that her family 52 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:29,640 tree would change forever. As it turns out, both her mother 53 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:33,480 and grandmother had relationships with the same man, 54 00:03:33,920 --> 00:03:39,080 making Jennifer's aunts also her sisters and her cousins, also 55 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:43,960 her nieces and nephews. To add some clarity here, this 56 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:46,360 man is not Jennifer's grandfather. 57 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:51,720 He is a man that her grandmother had an affair with, resulting in 58 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:56,080 two of her aunts. She discusses how she's faced 59 00:03:56,080 --> 00:04:00,000 the shame and stigma of this complicated story and how she's 60 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:02,640 navigated her relationship with her mother. 61 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:07,240 Jennifer and I spend quite a bit of time talking about the mother 62 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:11,120 daughter dynamic and how she was able to radically accept the 63 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:15,160 relationship for what it is, not what she wants it to be. 64 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:19,720 If you're currently struggling with this part of your story, I 65 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:21,519 hope this conversation helps you. 66 00:04:22,840 --> 00:04:27,000 Thank you to Jennifer for so openly sharing her feelings on 67 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:33,120 this as well as her story. My name is Jennifer, I am 47 68 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:39,520 years old and I am in Texas. My story is kind of tangled in 69 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:43,320 and around a a web of like small town shenanigans. 70 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:49,040 The way I think my story begins is with my maternal grandmother 71 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:54,520 who I called my nanny back in the 50s, late 50s, early 60s. 72 00:04:55,160 --> 00:05:00,080 She had some version of a a drone out affair with a man that 73 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:01,880 worked downtown in this small town. 74 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:05,600 And I would say that legends have it has it also photos that 75 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:08,480 I've had visibility to, you know, kind of speak to the fact 76 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:10,160 that she was like the cat's meow. 77 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:13,120 But I only know I'm a different version of her. 78 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:17,440 I only know my nanny that was like the repented save version 79 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,080 of her that followed like generations later. 80 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:22,880 So again, I only have that snapshot of her through stories 81 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:26,280 and some photos, but it's certainly like paints a tell of 82 00:05:26,280 --> 00:05:29,880 her for me. So yes, my grandmother, she had 83 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:32,040 this love affair. I would say that's what I'm 84 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:35,680 going to call it with this man that worked downtown in this 85 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:39,360 small town. And this produced the first two 86 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:43,440 MPs in my family. So my mom was the first born 87 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:47,600 child to her married parents. So the proper, you know, up and 88 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:50,680 running family in the like early 50s. 89 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:55,520 And then about seven years later, my grandmother gave birth 90 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:59,680 to her second child, a daughter. And then two years later another 91 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:02,400 daughter was born. So in this long try, not 92 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:05,880 surprise where we've all learned different versions of one 93 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:11,320 another, we learned that my mom's two younger sisters were 94 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:14,320 MP ES. So all this discovery kind of 95 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:17,720 came to light in 2020. So. 96 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:20,160 So they didn't know. They found out through, I'm 97 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:25,480 assuming, DNA testing. Yes, everybody is through a 98 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:27,440 surprise. Just for fun. 99 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:33,240 DNA kit test. So they have their own stories, 100 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:35,000 right? Something I think I want to 101 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:40,040 highlight in my story is that my nanny who she passed away, I 102 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:44,240 think it was about eight or nine months before all these stories 103 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:47,400 started unfolding. So she knew some things as we've 104 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:51,480 learned over the past like four years and that she didn't share 105 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:54,520 with with any of us. But when the knowledge started 106 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:56,560 surfacing, you know, that's when we learned everything. 107 00:06:56,560 --> 00:07:00,080 So my nanny, what I wanted to share is that she was my person. 108 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,000 So, you know, I have my family. I've got siblings. 109 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,680 I have aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews. 110 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:08,800 But she was really like this person to me that I always had 111 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:14,200 this very distinct draw towards. We shared a really strong bond 112 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:16,920 and love for one another that was pretty evident to most 113 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:18,920 people. She would never admit it, that 114 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:21,280 maybe I was her favorite grandchild, but that's the way 115 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:24,640 she made me feel. Yeah, they may all feel that 116 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:28,120 way. So yes, in 2020, an aunt learned 117 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:31,880 first that she had a biological father that was not her own. 118 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:35,520 And my mom actually shared this information with me that her 119 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:39,440 sister, so this is all in the maternal side of my family, 120 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:43,080 these learnings. So all three of them, my mom 121 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:48,480 shared with me that her sister found out through 23andMe that 122 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:52,880 she had a dad, a biological dad that she, you know, wasn't aware 123 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:54,760 of. She shared that with me. 124 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:57,200 And I was actually had just started a brand new job. 125 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:01,320 I was traveling for this job and I kept thinking about it. 126 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:03,440 I just didn't have the opportunity to really like 127 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:04,880 connect with my aunt on it, right. 128 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:08,040 And like, kind of share, like, you're on my mind. 129 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:10,680 I'm thinking of you. It just kept surfacing in my 130 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:13,720 head. A couple of months go by, the 131 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:19,520 jobs kind of like settled in and the pandemic hits and I became 132 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:23,600 furloughed. So as I'm like, you know, living 133 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:28,200 the very slow life at that point, I had time on my hands. 134 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:30,840 And that's when I was actually able to connect with my aunt and 135 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:35,400 share with her that, you know, I felt for her and it was just a 136 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:37,880 tough thing to comprehend. And I'm I'm there if she needs 137 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:41,240 me. What were you thinking in terms 138 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:43,919 of of your grandmother? So you kind of learned this 139 00:08:43,919 --> 00:08:47,600 truth about your grandmother. Did that change your perception 140 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:49,920 at all? It didn't for me. 141 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:52,760 She had just passed away again, I think it was eight months 142 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:57,280 before, so I always knew that she had LED this life that I had 143 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:02,760 only had snapshots of in photos. So wasn't a surprise to me that 144 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:05,600 she may have been like a woman about town, so to speak. 145 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:10,200 But it didn't change the way any of my relationship with her from 146 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:13,440 1977 on. I just accepted it as that was a 147 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:15,000 part of her life that I didn't know. 148 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:18,520 Sure, sure. So with this new learning for my 149 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:21,760 aunt that I, you know, was able to process, at that point, I'm 150 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:26,280 like, oh, I think I'll log into my 23 me and me account, what 151 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:30,480 had been setting for maybe 2 1/2 years. 152 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,760 I had taken it a handful of years before, again, just for 153 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:36,880 fun to kind of see maybe a little bit of medical 154 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:42,080 information, maybe exactly where my lineage comes from, pretty 155 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:47,000 like surface stuff. I had never gone in and toggled 156 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:49,760 the view relatives, but why would I, right? 157 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:52,120 I had no idea what. Was yeah, You knew who all your 158 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:54,800 relatives were, right? Correct. 159 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:58,000 So. That being said, my aunt 160 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:01,000 actually was holding the information for me that she knew 161 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:04,760 something more than I knew other than just her being an MPE. 162 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:07,760 She didn't share with me things that she had visibility to 163 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:13,840 through her own 23andMe profile. So when I logged in, turned on 164 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:19,400 view, relatives names pop up, I actually see my aunt listed as 165 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:25,280 my sister and 40% DNA shared. Again, I knew nothing about DNA, 166 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:30,040 how that's broken apart, what percentages you set, share with 167 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:33,400 different family members. But the listing of sister, I did 168 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:36,400 look up and it's with 23andMe. It's like a suggested 169 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:39,720 relationship. So I just kind of went on about 170 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:41,680 my business, didn't think much of it. 171 00:10:41,680 --> 00:10:43,800 I'm like, oh, they have that wrong scrambled, whatever that 172 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,200 might look like. I would say a couple of weeks 173 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:49,240 kind of tick by and I think everyone's kind of like waiting 174 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:54,680 for me to do the head scratch and make a phone call, but I 175 00:10:54,680 --> 00:10:58,360 just don't. Again, COVID had just like taken 176 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:00,600 toll on the nation and and that's where my head was. 177 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:02,120 I was like, I had been furloughed. 178 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:03,840 Like, how long is this going to last? 179 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:05,440 You know what, what are we in for? 180 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:07,320 So a big distraction going on at the time. 181 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:12,480 And then one evening I was on the phone with my cousin. 182 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:14,960 So this is my maternal aunt's daughter. 183 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:18,280 We're just chatting like we do. She's actually six months older 184 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:19,960 than me. We grew up very close. 185 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:23,200 We grew up kind of like sisters. We were in the same grade. 186 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:25,840 So they would dress as like when we were younger in the small 187 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:27,640 town. You know, she's right there. 188 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:30,480 So we're together not only for holidays, but after school, 189 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:34,040 weekends, all those things. And she basically does like a 190 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:36,640 temperature check and she's like, what kind of mood are you 191 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:40,160 in? That's an interesting question. 192 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:42,760 Yeah, right. Like I'm free to talk. 193 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:44,440 Thank God for her. Honestly. 194 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,240 Actually, I had made a joke. I said, you know, I've seen this 195 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:50,320 information on 23andMe about your mom being listed as my 196 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,960 sister. Her dad must be my dad, meaning 197 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:56,760 my birth certificate dad. Totally kidding. 198 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:00,760 That would mean that my birth certificate dad, the 199 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:03,960 relationship to my aunt would be what, her brother-in-law, right? 200 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:07,600 So my birthday dad being married to my mom, that would be my 201 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:09,960 aunt's brother-in-law. So again, there he's about 10 202 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:12,720 years older than her. So I said, oh, that must be your 203 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:16,200 mom's dad. She's like, no, that's actually 204 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:18,960 not the case. This unknown bio dad that has 205 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:24,120 popped up, his name's Mr. on my mom's profile is actually your 206 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:28,200 dad too. And I was like, you've got to be 207 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:30,480 kidding me. Totally. 208 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:35,080 It didn't go past my like cranial frontal lobe like it did 209 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,040 not absorb. And this is the same aunt who is 210 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:41,000 an NPE, correct? Correct. 211 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,360 OK. So we have learned she has the 212 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:45,760 discovery that Mister Murphy is her dad. 213 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:49,480 She's listed as my sister. I don't process it. 214 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:51,920 I don't even process it when it's spelled out to me. 215 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:56,080 What it took is for me to get my brother. 216 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:57,720 So I grew up in a house with a brother. 217 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:03,640 He had done 23andMe. I reached out to him and I told 218 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:07,400 him I need your 23 new password. I need to get into your account. 219 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:10,880 So he gave that to me and essentially what I needed to do 220 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:14,200 was to go into his profile and turn the toggle on view 221 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:18,720 relatives because until I could see it, that was really my 222 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:20,760 checkpoint. I said to my cousin, well, I 223 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:24,600 need to see my brother and see that he's listed as my half 224 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:27,720 brother because I can't process what you're saying to me. 225 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:31,280 So I did that. I logged into my brother's 226 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:35,720 account, I viewed relatives and it showed me as his half sister. 227 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:40,960 So that for me was like concrete evidence that we had two 228 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:44,160 different biological dads. How are you feeling at that 229 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:47,640 point? Numb because I've I've grown up 230 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:50,080 very close to the maternal side of my family. 231 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:52,360 So again, mentioning my relationship with my grandmother 232 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:56,640 was always very tight growing up in a small town, my grandmother 233 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:00,480 owned like a plot of land. She had all three of her 234 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:03,360 daughters homes built on that land. 235 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:06,360 We can cross the Creek, we can walk over driveways, we can be 236 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:08,240 in and out of each other's homes. 237 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:12,520 So grew up very close to them, did not grow up terribly close 238 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:16,040 to my paternal my, you know, my birth certificate, dad's family. 239 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:19,600 So I never totally felt like a Harris. 240 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:23,200 I would say, you know, I saw them on on holidays, they lived 241 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:27,600 probably 4 hours away. So I just wasn't like a part of 242 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:29,320 the insurance and outs of their lives. 243 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:32,000 So there was definitely like a distance there. 244 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,520 But again, no clue that that wasn't my dad. 245 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,080 Did you have a close relationship with your dad? 246 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:40,320 I did. My parents divorced when I was 247 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:42,720 in high school. I was in agreeance with the 248 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,640 divorce. I thought it was probably time 249 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:48,840 to end the relationship. I would say from there the 250 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:51,200 distance began between me and my birth certificate. 251 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:53,600 Dad, right? He moved out of the house, he 252 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,840 was a heavy drinker, so that's just kind of what he put his 253 00:14:56,840 --> 00:15:00,560 energy and time into and he's also deceased birth certificate 254 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:04,640 dad and bio dad are deceased before any of this is learned so 255 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:06,800 you. Couldn't talk to him about it or 256 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:10,640 anything after you had this. Discovery No and my paternal 257 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:15,960 grandmother also deceased. OK, so if I'm understanding this 258 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:21,400 correctly, your grandmother and your mother had a relationship 259 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:24,640 with the same man? Correct. 260 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:25,880 OK. Boom. 261 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:31,560 I was born in 1977, my 2:00. So this includes not only my 262 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:34,640 first aunt that learned, but my second aunt as well. 263 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:38,120 Her story comes a bit later. She was the third person to 264 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:42,320 actually learn. She was a part of this web that 265 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:45,600 had been woven. So, yeah, my grandmother had 266 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:50,760 this love affair with this man, created two children, never 267 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:54,320 spoke that we know of to anyone about this information. 268 00:15:54,840 --> 00:16:01,480 And then, you know, maybe 15 to 17 years later, my mom had an 269 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:06,160 affair with this same guy. He was 20 years older than her. 270 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:09,160 And at this point when I've learned everything, she's the 271 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:14,400 only living family member that can speak to any of this story 272 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:17,200 because of everyone else being deceased. 273 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:21,720 What does she say? She says not much. 274 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:25,400 I think she has like, the typical kind of mother response 275 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,600 and a lot of these stories that I learn about probably her own 276 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:33,160 version of denial. You know, she's either blocked 277 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:36,960 it out, never let it in, or maybe she's played pretend for 278 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:39,560 no at this point. And I think it had been 43 years 279 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:45,480 and honestly was in disbelief, I would say at shock, in shock at 280 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:51,080 first was not truthful to me. Again, I, I at this point in the 281 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:52,760 story, it's been four years for me. 282 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:55,040 Actually, tomorrow is my. Four year. 283 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:58,240 Oh, wow. I I would say happy anniversary, 284 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:00,560 but that doesn't feel appropriate for this kind of 285 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:01,640 well, you can. Say that to me now. 286 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:03,600 I got a big smile on my face at this point. 287 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:09,599 It took a long time to get there, but yeah, my mom, she's 288 00:17:09,599 --> 00:17:13,000 interesting around it. She will paint a picture into 289 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:18,440 the fact that oh, yes, during those years again, around 1977, 290 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:24,000 I was sowing my oats. I married your first dad very 291 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:26,560 young. We were doing our own things. 292 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:31,960 He was working nights. I would party at a house where 293 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:35,880 this man, Mr. He was hanging out, but I never had any 294 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:38,600 interest in him. She'll kind of like paint this 295 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:44,360 whole scene but won't put the varnish on the painting I would 296 00:17:44,360 --> 00:17:44,920 say. OK. 297 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:49,640 And was she surprised or did you think she seemed surprised when 298 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:52,440 you confronted her? I do think she seems surprised 299 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:57,720 because when her younger sister had learned who it was, she was 300 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:00,600 all about it, sharing the story with me, sending me photos of 301 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,840 him. Never in a million years did she 302 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:07,480 have any hesitation around my aunt's story and who the man 303 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:11,720 was. Does she apologize to you or? 304 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:15,040 No. OK, A. 305 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:17,280 Common. Common response. 306 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:20,720 Yeah, she has zero accountability. 307 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:22,720 So we've been through our own process. 308 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:26,720 So again, four years tomorrow. She I definitely had like a 309 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:30,400 hiatus with her. I went six months or a little 310 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:34,440 bit more, no contact. She disrespected those 311 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:38,280 boundaries the entire time I tried to go to therapy with her. 312 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:43,000 I learned in maybe second session, this isn't going to 313 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:46,240 work for me. She could not revisit the story 314 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:48,800 and kind of do a redo. She was given the chance to do a 315 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:50,560 redo. You've learned this information. 316 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:52,320 Jennifer's having these feelings. 317 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:56,240 What would you say to her? I can't come up with anything. 318 00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:00,680 What's her response? So complete shutdown mode and 319 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:02,760 and again, not surprising for her. 320 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:05,520 But now you, you had her go to therapy with you. 321 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:09,880 So obviously, I mean, you can smile about it now, but it did 322 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:12,720 hit you at some point pretty hard. 323 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:15,720 Can you talk about that? I would say today that was 324 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:21,560 actually my hardest lesson to learn was the capacity that my 325 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:25,360 mother does not have to lean into this and to put my feelings 326 00:19:25,360 --> 00:19:28,480 first. So of course, learning that my 327 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:31,760 biological dad is someone I've never met and will never meet 328 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:37,080 was a huge shock. Of course, learning that my two 329 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:42,360 maternal aunts are also my paternal sisters was literally 330 00:19:42,360 --> 00:19:45,800 the biggest head spin I hope I ever go through in life. 331 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:51,320 You know that not only makes that the case, but my maternal 332 00:19:51,360 --> 00:19:55,120 cousins are my paternal nieces and nephews. 333 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,880 Right, right. It completely changes your 334 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:02,800 relationship to all of them. It totally does, yeah. 335 00:20:03,360 --> 00:20:05,600 Yeah, in theory. In theory, on paper. 336 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:07,480 You know, we're talking about laughing now. 337 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:11,280 I I've even come to a point where I can laugh that my family 338 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:15,000 tree looks more like a wreath. It doesn't exactly have roots in 339 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:16,920 the ground and branches in the sky. 340 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:19,840 It makes like a full circle. But yeah, there's a lot of pain 341 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:21,680 and hurt around the relationship with my mom. 342 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:27,000 We've always had a very safe, like surface relationship, so 343 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,760 not a lot of highs and lows. She doesn't really go there 344 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:32,960 emotionally with anything, but we've never had anything like 345 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:38,040 this big blow up in her face and have to confront it together. 346 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,200 So it's been a disappointment for sure. 347 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:46,200 I've really just had to work through what is our new dynamic 348 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:50,840 like for me, I've had to be very patient and very understanding 349 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:53,640 with her. It's just painted a picture of 350 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:58,440 her as like a flawed human being rather than my mom that should 351 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:00,840 should do right by me. The crushing, most heart 352 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:04,280 crushing part about it is that she will protect her own 353 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,280 feelings in order to jeopardize mine. 354 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,280 And that's really painful. That's a really hard life 355 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,640 lesson. Yeah, and it does seem to be 356 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:19,200 kind of a a common thread, right, where moms just can't go 357 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:23,040 there, they block it and and accountability can be a huge 358 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:27,280 issue. Were you able then to learn 359 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:30,240 anything more about your biological father? 360 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:35,600 Considering that he had passed and your mom didn't share a 361 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:37,920 whole bunch? What were you able to learn, if 362 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:40,560 anything? Growing up in this really small 363 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:46,280 town in Texas, he was actually the editor and like owner of the 364 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:48,440 local newspaper. So we've got this tiny little 365 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:50,000 newspaper that comes out once a week. 366 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,280 So when I was growing up, that's what he was doing. 367 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:56,280 So I can't recall this man. I know his name and like his 368 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,400 profession just because of who he was and what he did in town, 369 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:03,960 but I can't recall ever seeing him or knowing who he was. 370 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:07,360 He actually passed away the year I graduated high school, so in 371 00:22:07,360 --> 00:22:12,000 1995 he died of cancer. So again, I would have been very 372 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,600 young had I ever like crossed paths with him. 373 00:22:15,120 --> 00:22:18,400 But because we're from such a small town, we've got, I have 374 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,760 photos of him. I have had been in contact with 375 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,840 his great niece. I believe she is. 376 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:28,360 He had a handful of siblings, but they're all either passed 377 00:22:28,360 --> 00:22:32,080 away or in a capacity mentally, you know, elderly where they 378 00:22:32,120 --> 00:22:35,000 they can't speak to anything. What I did do in some of my 379 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,840 darkest of days and like those nights I couldn't sleep. 380 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:42,280 You can actually online, you can pull up these newspapers from 381 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:46,640 the 70s, even going back to the 60s and the 50s when he was the 382 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:51,400 owner and editor and I can see articles he wrote, I can see 383 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:56,240 photos he took, I can see places he went and kind of some of his 384 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,240 interests. So that's very interesting. 385 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:02,160 Again, very surface kind of things right to learn about I 386 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:05,360 published a newspaper, but they do give me some insights. 387 00:23:05,360 --> 00:23:08,400 So you. You find these results, you 388 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:13,200 finally kind of accept them. After that initial shock and and 389 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:17,640 denial, you talk to your mom. Not a lot there. 390 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:20,520 What else are you doing to process this? 391 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,680 Well, of course I've reached, you know, reaching out to my my 392 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:27,400 aunts slash new sisters. There was a time there when I 393 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:29,640 tried to put them in a sister box. 394 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:33,240 I'm like, Oh, I've never had sisters before, but it that is 395 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,840 just not our dynamic. They are my aunts and that's 396 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:40,200 just the way that it is. My cousins aren't my nieces and 397 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,280 nephews that will just never change and I can never even like 398 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:47,040 shift the label and you know my dynamic with them. 399 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:51,240 So I definitely was able to kind of like connect with the her 400 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,720 really one of them of the two more so my one aunt connect with 401 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,400 her, kind of grieve through it together. 402 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:01,280 I have a lot of phone calls and just processing together was 403 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:04,400 helpful, but I do think that I probably held it in a different 404 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:06,920 capacity. All of my family comes from the 405 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,560 school of, I would say pull yourself up by the bootstraps, 406 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,880 that kind of thing where I immediately, one of the first 407 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:18,280 steps that I took was reaching out to find a therapist. 408 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:23,760 Once I could comprehend like the layers of all of this, the 409 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:28,360 generational trauma that my family will never be what I once 410 00:24:28,360 --> 00:24:30,720 thought it was. We could never go forward 411 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:34,800 together in the same ways. I knew that I needed help, that 412 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:36,400 I could not process it on my own. 413 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:39,920 So that was a huge part of my healing was finding the right 414 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:44,280 therapist. And I have been with her for 415 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,360 almost my entire journey. So maybe six months in is when 416 00:24:47,360 --> 00:24:49,960 we made the connection. So it's been over like about 3 417 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:51,400 1/2 years I believe at this point. 418 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:55,160 Wow, that's incredible and and good for you for having the 419 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,480 wherewithal to say I've got to find some support through. 420 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:03,360 This and I think with my mom having such a like kind of palm 421 00:25:03,360 --> 00:25:05,880 in my face, that just made it so much worse. 422 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:10,240 So I knew I just, I needed help to sort through all the emotions 423 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,640 and really just how to approach the struggles, right. 424 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,840 I had a lot of homework in the early days and early months. 425 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:22,680 And then also a huge part of my therapy has been the focus on 426 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,920 like the new relationship dynamic with my mom and what are 427 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,000 my boundaries look like and what am I willing? 428 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,120 What kind of behavior am I willing to accept from her? 429 00:25:30,120 --> 00:25:35,040 Because again, all of this blew up and it was so painful and 430 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:36,400 shocking. You know you've been through it, 431 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,840 but it's like the rug is jerked out from underneath you. 432 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,760 Absolutely and and the relationships with with moms I 433 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:46,280 think often do change. You said for a while you went no 434 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,880 contact with her. At what point did you resume 435 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:54,520 contact and what does that look like now after, you know, 436 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:58,160 learning things through therapy? Wife was moving forward while I 437 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:02,680 was processing everything. So I initially had the learning. 438 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,000 I tried to talk to her on my own. 439 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:08,160 I tried, you know, I even had moments where it was, Oh my 440 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,760 gosh, this one, this terrible thing will bring us closer 441 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,040 together. We've always had this very like 442 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,480 surface relationship and I thought, Oh my God, there's so 443 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:22,280 many raw emotions and so many learnings to be had together. 444 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:27,040 We're totally going to connect on this and grow together and 445 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:30,400 have this, you know, fairy tale mother daughter relationship. 446 00:26:31,360 --> 00:26:33,960 And that would sideways very quickly because she was not 447 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,000 responding to me reaching out to her. 448 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,880 She would say things to me that I'll never forget. 449 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:43,680 She would say things she did tell me one time. 450 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,720 The reason you're struggling with this so much more than me 451 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,040 is because I'm closer to God than you are. 452 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,920 So in the meantime, my stepfather, who has been in my 453 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:58,600 life since I was 18 years old, so decades, right? 454 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,760 I never grew up in house with him, but he was a great bonus 455 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,880 dad to me. He's becoming ill and struggling 456 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:08,480 and declining very quickly. So my mom is dealing with this. 457 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,280 So I had to give her the respect there and I had to give him the 458 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:16,800 respect I think is what it was. And his like failing, ailing 459 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,120 years. I didn't want to remove myself 460 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:23,400 from him. So I was around, you know, them 461 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:27,360 as a, as a married couple when I had first learned all of this to 462 00:27:27,360 --> 00:27:30,200 support him and we were trying to get him help. 463 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,160 So that was a lot of our our focus at the time. 464 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,520 So there was kind of this dual drama going on, I would say. 465 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:39,680 Sure, yeah. And then once he passed away, I 466 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:44,040 believe that was in 2021, something make whether it be 467 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,080 subconscious or not, kind of shifted in me and I said, OK, 468 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,560 now I've got to like protect myself at this point. 469 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:51,800 And that's when I informed my mom. 470 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,440 It was actually the learning of my second aunt. 471 00:27:55,120 --> 00:27:59,320 In 2021, my stepdad passed away and I happened to log into 472 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,320 23andMe. I guess I'm torturing myself at 473 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:04,400 this point. And there she blows. 474 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:08,240 I, I had said the entire time, I know my other aunt is, is a part 475 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:09,360 of this. I know she is. 476 00:28:09,360 --> 00:28:11,720 I know she is. And what, what was it that made 477 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,240 you think that? She and I look so much alike. 478 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:21,000 I grew up super close to her. She only has one son and she's 479 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,520 15 years older than me. So she's, you know, a bit 480 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:25,880 younger than my mom and then 15 years older than me. 481 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:28,560 I just grew up really close to her. 482 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,040 She didn't have a daughter. She was like my young fun aunt 483 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:34,320 that would like take me school shopping and let me like drive 484 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,520 her car when I was far too young and just treated me really 485 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:41,000 special and did sweet things for me as when I was a kid. 486 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,480 But we were always told, hey, you guys could be sisters 487 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:49,320 thinking, of course, we, you know, come from the same 488 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:54,080 lineage, not knowing that there's this dual thing going on 489 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:58,160 with lineage. So I just had this truth in my 490 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:02,280 heart that I knew she had to be a part of this story just 491 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,760 because honestly, based on my connection to her, maybe, but 492 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,880 also that our looks are so similar. 493 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,720 It's actually her son that takes the test. 494 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:19,680 So my cousin, my maternal cousin slash paternal nephew, he pops 495 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:23,120 up with a strange amount of DNA shared. 496 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:27,600 You go to, you know, view shared relatives, I believe is listed 497 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:29,680 as and you've got them on both sides of the family. 498 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:36,200 So that gave away to me that, yes, she's also a part of Mr. 499 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:42,880 C's legacy and how does it feel to see it the the second time? 500 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,160 I guess third time total, but second. 501 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:52,520 Pissed, but just like this rage of Oh my God we're going to have 502 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:54,840 to go through this again, I was actually shaking. 503 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,680 That is the one and only time that I emailed my therapist and 504 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:00,800 I said can I please put an appointment in before my 505 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,240 scheduled time. I'm I'm curious, what about it 506 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:07,920 made you angry because the first aunt you had compassion, of 507 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:09,680 course you didn't know that you were involved. 508 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:15,200 And then for yourself, you have that grief, shock, all those 509 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,040 feelings. And then the third time you feel 510 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,520 anger, you said it was because you were going to have to go 511 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,360 through it all again. But did something else come up? 512 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,120 It's like you're the truth is handed to you on a platter. 513 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:31,240 But I couldn't get willing participants to admit to the 514 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,200 truth. And it was so very frustrating. 515 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:37,840 Not that my mom knows what happened, you know, when she was 516 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:42,680 10 years old or whatever, but we have so much evidence and 517 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:47,040 science based evidence. But I couldn't get her to speak 518 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:49,000 to my story and give me the truth. 519 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,480 So I think it really like exacerbated some of those 520 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:54,880 wounds. Absolutely, that makes perfect 521 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,640 sense. Is that when you go no contact 522 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,200 with her? That's when I go no contract 523 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:01,920 with her. She tends to make a lot of the 524 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,240 story about her, believe it or not. 525 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,760 She just had a terrible response when I got on the phone and I 526 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:11,840 said, OK, so your second sister's involved as well. 527 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:15,720 She has this cackle, laughs it off, knows I'm in all of this 528 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:21,480 pain for months on end and just can't even put herself in my 529 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:23,560 shoes to empathize. Not even for that, you know, 530 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,320 phone call. And it just really set me off 531 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,400 and turned me off. And I told her during that 532 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,080 conversation, you're holding me back. 533 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,200 I can't move forward with you in my life. 534 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,400 So from from this point forward, I'm not going to be speaking to 535 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:40,000 you. Keep you posted. 536 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,320 And you said she didn't respect those boundaries. 537 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:47,440 So what did that look like? She just continued to text me. 538 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,920 You know, something would happen with somebody, maybe that we 539 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:55,080 knew together, like a person in town, and she would want to, 540 00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:58,240 like, reach out to me about it. Only through text. 541 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,400 Never did she phone call me. But I never responded. 542 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:07,240 My stomach would drop when her name would come up on my phone. 543 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,800 Like, here we go again. You know, it's kind of like my 544 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:18,080 visceral reaction because I just couldn't see clearly with trying 545 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:22,840 to like focus on my own healing and then have the dynamics of 546 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:28,240 her wanting to deny my truth. I just felt that at that time, 547 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,000 it was appropriate. Did it feel great to me? 548 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,400 No. At the end of the day, that's my 549 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,200 mom. We have a lifetime of shared 550 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,760 history. It was hard to completely go 551 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:41,720 cold on her. But you know, I shared an 552 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:46,200 example of the God comment she made right before that, 553 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,080 something she had also done that kind of like solidified my 554 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:54,080 decision to go no contact is I get a text from her and it's a 555 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:58,880 photo of myself and my brother, which I now know to be my half 556 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:02,080 brother. It's this Olan Mills photo. 557 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,640 You know, I'm like 3 and he's 5 or whatever. 558 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:09,880 And her caption or her text below the photo is, it's hard to 559 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:14,640 believe the results, so fully gaslighting me. 560 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,560 And it was really painful. I can remember, like, where I 561 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:21,560 was, what I was doing when I got that text out of the blue. 562 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:24,800 And I just thought, you know, I don't have to put up with this. 563 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:29,360 Like, I don't have to be sitting here enjoying this moment and 564 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,280 have this sneak attack. That is my boundary. 565 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:35,680 So that's what all solidified, essentially cutting her off for 566 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:37,040 some time. OK. 567 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:40,920 And how did you come back together in a way? 568 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:45,200 What we decided to do, I think, you know, at this point I'm, I'm 569 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,960 in contact a lot with my aunt, her sister, my sister also at 570 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:53,880 this point it's like who shares sisters with their own mother 571 00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:57,640 like that's. Yeah, it's very confusing. 572 00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:02,200 It is very confusing and my entire foundation was, you know, 573 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:07,280 shook with my own discovery and then my mom not being able to 574 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:10,000 support all of that pain and suffering. 575 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:14,120 A lot of my journey as well and my recovery has been around the 576 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:19,199 shame that I carried just around having that new kind of like 577 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,000 aunt, sister. Dynamic. 578 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:25,920 Yeah, I, I was going to ask about that because it is sort of 579 00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,800 this interesting experience that you're having. 580 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,800 I imagine that it's something that happened a lot. 581 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:37,199 Maybe it still happens in other cultures, but in our history, 582 00:34:37,639 --> 00:34:42,040 but there is like maybe a little bit of a stigma or or shame that 583 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:45,400 kind of butts up against it. If you feel comfortable, can you 584 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:49,719 talk more about that? Yeah, I would say, you know, I 585 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:53,400 think like the small town was kind of what led to this. 586 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:57,800 I would imagine just because there's only 3000 people walking 587 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,000 about any given day. So I would imagine that's what 588 00:35:01,240 --> 00:35:05,080 even laid the foundation to for this situation to present 589 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:09,000 itself. But I've always kind of like 590 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:13,000 beat to my own drum. And I've really prided myself in 591 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:15,160 having removed myself from this small town. 592 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,960 I would never want to change where I grew up or those 593 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,720 childhood memories. But the moment I was able to 594 00:35:20,720 --> 00:35:24,000 leave, I took off and I soared and I never looked back. 595 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:29,520 So it really was like a kick in the gut to kind of learn like, 596 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:33,400 oh, you've come so far and you've I had this kind of like 597 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:39,200 creative journey along life. And then let's ground you in a 598 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,040 very shocking way to let you know that you came from this 599 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:45,520 community. That's quite tangled, right? 600 00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:49,600 And the word that always comes to me is I actually have this 601 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:54,880 this T-shirt I've had for years. But what it says on the front is 602 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,880 backwoods, baby. And it's just like, oh, you 603 00:35:57,880 --> 00:35:59,760 know, because it's like, oh, you came from the small town, You're 604 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:01,240 from the sticks or from the backwoods. 605 00:36:01,720 --> 00:36:04,840 I have this story, right? That's so intimate to me and I'm 606 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:08,680 afraid to share it because it's like embarrassing in a way. 607 00:36:08,720 --> 00:36:10,320 I've had to work through it as well. 608 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:16,280 But I wanted to paint Mr. as this big jerk that had all these 609 00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:20,240 ulterior motives and like, had, you know, again, this is all a 610 00:36:20,240 --> 00:36:23,960 story I've painted in my head that he had this love affair 611 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:27,120 ongoing for years with my grandmother and maybe something 612 00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:31,400 went sideways, not in his favor. And then does he go after my 613 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:33,960 mom? It's kind of like AFU. 614 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,120 And then I'm this FU baby. Like, I don't know. 615 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:41,400 So a lot of questions around how did this come to be sort of 616 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,720 thing? At the end of the day, perhaps 617 00:36:44,720 --> 00:36:48,880 my mom didn't know about Mr. and my grandmother, but he knew, 618 00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:50,600 right? Right. 619 00:36:50,720 --> 00:36:53,680 He knew exactly what he was doing. 620 00:36:54,240 --> 00:36:58,800 That was a part of my process is that this deceitful man is like 621 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:02,080 his blood's running through my veins because I again, I don't 622 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:06,440 have anyone to like reach out to and validify exactly how this 623 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:07,680 all went about. OK. 624 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:09,800 Yeah. Thank you so much for kind of 625 00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:13,840 speaking to that because, you know, a huge purpose with this 626 00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:16,240 podcast is to reduce that shame and stigma. 627 00:37:16,240 --> 00:37:19,680 And it's awesome to hear that you've been able to overcome it 628 00:37:19,720 --> 00:37:22,160 and still kind of working through some of the pieces. 629 00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:25,840 It's a couple of things, like when I would first, even to my 630 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:30,400 closest SO my closest of friends, I immediately had them 631 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,280 on the phone or in person and telling them my full story. 632 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:35,640 Totally shook. They're there for me. 633 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:40,600 But there are a subset of like I would say my Halo friends, 634 00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:42,080 right? Who I would say, Oh yeah, I had 635 00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:45,200 this terrible learning through 23andMe and my dad's not my dad, 636 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:51,440 but it took me a couple of years to share that second effect of 637 00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,680 my story. I couldn't even share my story 638 00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:58,440 to some of my own people again until I had processed on my own. 639 00:37:58,520 --> 00:37:59,960 What do you think helped you through? 640 00:37:59,960 --> 00:38:03,680 That I think my commitment to therapy and my commitment from 641 00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:07,680 my therapist and just the continued focus, it's probably 642 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:11,320 been, gosh, a couple of years ago now, I would just have this 643 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,840 twisted kind of irky, like, Oh my God, I can't believe those 644 00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:17,800 are my sisters. I know a lot of NPS struggle 645 00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:23,600 with I don't know who my family is or they deny my reality or 646 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,880 they, you know, I reach out to them and they want nothing to do 647 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:29,560 with me. Very painful things that some 648 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,000 people go to through in regards to their story. 649 00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:35,880 I don't have that built into my story, but I had the shame 650 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:38,920 around sharing sisters with my own mom. 651 00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:43,240 And then one day I'm like in the shower thinking about things and 652 00:38:43,240 --> 00:38:49,560 I had this very just kind of aha revelation that really just it 653 00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:55,160 was about taking the narrative and turning it maybe 180°. 654 00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:59,000 I just thought to myself, I have been with my people all along. 655 00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:02,120 They are not a mystery to me. They've loved me from the 656 00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:05,440 beginning. I've got to spend every holiday 657 00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:10,040 and birthday and weekend and some vacations with them. 658 00:39:10,720 --> 00:39:16,240 All the while a twisted secret we weren't aware of, but I have 659 00:39:16,240 --> 00:39:19,120 all shared memories with them. They're my family, so I don't 660 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:22,080 have that pain and suffering of like never knowing them or never 661 00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:25,360 having spent my growing up years or my time with them. 662 00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:29,840 That's a really beautiful perspective, and I know that 663 00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:33,960 your mom kind of did a little bit of the spiritual bypassing 664 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:35,520 right by saying I'm good with it. 665 00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:38,000 Because my. Religion and and everything and, 666 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:41,920 and I'm never here for toxic positivity, but I am always here 667 00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:44,320 for Silver Linings when we can find them. 668 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:48,320 And I think that that's a really beautiful perspective that you 669 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,440 can have gratitude for the fact that you were around these 670 00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:53,080 people and they aren't a mystery to you. 671 00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:56,680 No, and he probably wasn't aware of any of it, you know? 672 00:39:56,720 --> 00:40:00,160 Sure, sure. OK, I I. 673 00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:03,520 I think I remember this from the meet up that you joined. 674 00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,640 Did you share that you were becoming a coach? 675 00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:09,680 I did, yes. So that would be another thing 676 00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:11,600 to speak to in regards to my healing. 677 00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:13,080 It's that human connection, right? 678 00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:16,240 And I just, when I first heard my story, of course, I have my 679 00:40:16,240 --> 00:40:18,800 aunt that I can kind of like lean on, but she was just 680 00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:22,240 processing it differently than me when I had a therapist and I 681 00:40:22,240 --> 00:40:25,160 have friends to talk to, but I needed the community. 682 00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:28,600 I needed to sit across from either a Zoom camera, whatever 683 00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:32,480 it might be, a circle, whatever. And someone say to me, I know 684 00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:34,920 exactly the way you feel right now, right? 685 00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:38,320 So yes, and all my like, kind of like digging. 686 00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:42,160 That's when I was really turned on to podcast to hear people 687 00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:45,080 speak of their stories. But just lots of research I was, 688 00:40:45,240 --> 00:40:49,360 I was doing and I learned about the International Association of 689 00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:53,080 Trauma Recovery Coaches. So you know, that's an online 690 00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:58,800 group that offers trauma recovery coaching in one 691 00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,640 capacity. So I was able to take those 692 00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:05,560 classes and fulfill that and and earn my certificate. 693 00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:09,960 And then beyond that, they offer an advanced certificate that is 694 00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:15,200 just around the MPE and those stories and, you know, the 695 00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:19,080 healing of that journey. So I then took those classes and 696 00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:21,040 checked off that certificate. Yeah. 697 00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:26,040 So I am actually like certified as a trauma recovery coach with 698 00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:30,000 an NPE specialty. And are you currently seeing 699 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:32,840 clients? I'm not. 700 00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:36,360 I'm very open to being coach, you know, to anybody who's in 701 00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:38,920 need of help, but I don't actually have a website or any 702 00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:42,160 kind of like name out there, any kind of marketing happening. 703 00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:48,720 OK, well if you do, please share so that I can connect to the 704 00:41:48,720 --> 00:41:51,800 community with you. I'm always excited to see more 705 00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:56,920 resources available as this phenomenon continues to grow. 706 00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:59,320 Yes, no doubt. I mean, I, I have an e-mail 707 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:01,560 address that I could give. Sure. 708 00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:03,360 Yeah, if you want to get that to me. 709 00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:06,040 I'll put it in the show notes. It's actually 710 00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:14,080 00j.harrisharris@gmail.com so totally willing and willing and 711 00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:16,680 open to talk to anyone one-on-one that's going through 712 00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:22,680 their own strife, as you know. I know what it's like. 713 00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:27,360 Yeah, absolutely. What's next for you on this 714 00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:30,120 path? That's funny that you ask. 715 00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:32,320 Getting my coaching up and running is definitely a focus. 716 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,720 I've just had a lot of like life events, actually relocating. 717 00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,200 Gosh, in 10 days I believe it is. 718 00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:42,120 I've switched careers, I've been traveling there. 719 00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:46,880 So I think the continued focus around coaching in some 720 00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:51,920 capacity, I don't think it will ever be my main force, but to 721 00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:57,040 stay a part of the community and be as helpful as possible is is 722 00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:02,880 definitely like a focus for me. I would say I feel today, I feel 723 00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:06,200 whole and recovered. I have my moments. 724 00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:09,760 My mom is in my life. We have a very, I would say 725 00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:12,080 boundary respectful relationship. 726 00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:15,200 At this point. I just learned I have a better 727 00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:20,280 just kind of personal balance if I allow her to be in my life, 728 00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:23,280 but kind of under my rules and regulations. 729 00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:25,920 That's what worked for me. Absolutely. 730 00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:29,120 Yeah. So a lot of radical acceptance 731 00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:32,320 there with my mom. She's who she is, and she's very 732 00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:34,880 limited, and she's shown it in a number of ways. 733 00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:38,880 So that will probably always be a part of my journey is just 734 00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:43,080 kind of, I guess, nurturing my own heart around my relationship 735 00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:47,080 with her and make sure that I stay in recovery mode, Right. 736 00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:49,880 I mean, honestly, she would like, never speak of it again if 737 00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:53,200 I never did. I'd like to remind her though of 738 00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,200 my situation. We have phone conversations. 739 00:43:56,280 --> 00:44:00,400 They're very surface. I reach out to her for like mom 740 00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:01,760 things. I'm like, Oh my gosh, I 741 00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:04,320 overwatered this plant and it's drowning. 742 00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:06,520 What can I do? Help me with the soil. 743 00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:13,840 I don't cry to her. I don't show my true self. 744 00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:18,080 She's not available to me. So I've just I've gone back to 745 00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:19,920 the dynamic that I've always known. 746 00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,800 Yeah, thank you for talking about this. 747 00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:26,480 I really think that there's people out there who probably 748 00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:30,880 need to hear that taking it for what it is and not what you want 749 00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:37,720 it to be is. 100% every day because I don't, I don't 750 00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:41,280 necessarily want this to be my story, right? 751 00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:44,040 You know, I'm not in resistance to it at this point. 752 00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:45,840 I would say at one point I didn't necessarily want this to 753 00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:49,360 be my story, but it is. It is my story and she is who 754 00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:56,560 she is and we are where we are. And so do I feel sad for her as 755 00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:58,400 a person? Yeah, I do. 756 00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:04,560 I it's, it's hard at times. But I, I just, I know where I 757 00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:07,840 can and can't go with her. And I don't really address that 758 00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:10,320 with her at this point. I don't, you know, say to her 759 00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:11,880 you're letting me down or you're disappointing me. 760 00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:15,480 I don't have to because I don't reach out to her in those ways. 761 00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:19,280 You know, I, I may mention that I like to remind her of my 762 00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:21,120 story. That's just some sort of like, I 763 00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:25,160 don't know, power that I hold. Again, she would like go the 764 00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:27,800 rest of her lifetime never Speaking of it. 765 00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:31,680 I had mentioned to you earlier when we first started chatting, 766 00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:34,400 I, I wanted to highlight my relationship with my nanny, 767 00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:37,000 right? Like so Mr. he had this 768 00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:40,480 relationship with her and they had these like love children and 769 00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:43,320 whatever that might have been. But again, I've always had this 770 00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:45,560 this draw to her. We're always very close. 771 00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:48,640 And I this the most recent mention to my mom. 772 00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:51,960 I had her on the phone and I gently brought something up and 773 00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:57,000 I said, you know, I've decided that it's the Mr. in me that was 774 00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,320 so in love and like drawn to nanny. 775 00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:03,440 And she just scoffed at me as quick as she could. 776 00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:08,040 But you know, these are those sleepless nights early on where 777 00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:11,680 it's like, what in the world is this twisted story leading to? 778 00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:17,320 And I just had another again in a ha, like maybe it's the him in 779 00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:21,720 me that was just like so in love with her in a sense, and just so 780 00:46:21,720 --> 00:46:25,120 enamored by her creativity and all these things that she did. 781 00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:29,880 Again, it just kind of helps me kind of close all the chapters 782 00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:31,640 and fit all the puzzle pieces together. 783 00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:33,800 I'm like, well that would make total sense. 784 00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:38,280 Yeah, yeah. You know, we keep coming back to 785 00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:42,080 like mom and that tough relationship myself. 786 00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:46,120 And as with any MPE, again, if you go down to those deep 787 00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:48,760 thoughts, and I've always had this distance with my mom in a 788 00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:53,200 sense, again, she would never admit that, but it goes back to 789 00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:56,760 my birth story. And you know, has she known this 790 00:46:56,760 --> 00:47:00,560 all along? Has she always had a bit of a 791 00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:04,720 wall up between us Because she knows the story and she knows 792 00:47:04,720 --> 00:47:08,480 where I come from and so she's never allowed me in from the get 793 00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:10,040 go. I never had a chance. 794 00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:15,960 What advice do you have for a parent who is keeping adna 795 00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:20,360 surprise from their child's MY? Advice would be to tell the 796 00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:23,720 truth. I think it's a terribly hard 797 00:47:23,720 --> 00:47:30,840 conversation to have, but I think at the end of the day, if 798 00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:34,560 you can speak the truth to someone about their own story, 799 00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:39,640 that's only going to build trust in the relationship. 800 00:47:39,720 --> 00:47:44,560 With a parent and a child, what advice would you offer someone 801 00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:47,720 who just uncovered Adna surprise? 802 00:47:47,720 --> 00:47:53,240 Take a breath, go for a walk, take in nature. 803 00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:58,600 Really just try to ground yourself in any kind of 804 00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:00,640 stability that you've always known. 805 00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:04,640 I don't like to offer the advice that time is going to heal all 806 00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:08,400 the wounds. When you're living in it moment 807 00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:12,040 by moment, it is far too hard to see past that. 808 00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:18,720 So I think any kind of like grounding or stability that 809 00:48:18,720 --> 00:48:22,080 you're accustomed to, really lean into that and remind 810 00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:27,480 yourself you're still the person that you know yourself to be. 811 00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:32,400 You may have a different makeup, or maybe ethnicity or 812 00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:36,880 relationships with folks are not what you thought, but that 813 00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:41,640 doesn't change the personality and the character that you have 814 00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:44,680 fostered and have become along the way. 815 00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:50,480 It's one of those this changes everything, yet this changes 816 00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:53,960 nothing. Jennifer, thank you so much for 817 00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:56,080 joining me today. Thank you for being so 818 00:48:56,080 --> 00:49:01,160 vulnerable with your experience with your mom and overcoming 819 00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:03,960 shame and stigma. I really think this will help a 820 00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:07,360 lot of people and I wish you the best as you move forward in your 821 00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:09,960 journey. Thank you so much, Alexis. 822 00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:13,280 Thanks again to Jennifer for sharing her story. 823 00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:17,240 If you have Adna Surprise that you'd like to share, please 824 00:49:17,240 --> 00:49:20,800 submit your story at dnasurprises.com. 825 00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:26,040 Until next time, this episode of DNA Surprises was hosted, 826 00:49:26,240 --> 00:49:30,040 produced and edited by me, Alexis Ourselt. 827 00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:34,880 It was mixed and mastered by Josh Ourselt of Siren Recording 828 00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:35,600 Studios.