As wild as this whole situation is, that's where my biggest
struggle is that she cannot show up for me.
So that's heavy shit. You know, I think it kind of
goes back to I've lived this life with my mom.
She was very, very there for me in the sense of like, I'm going
to get fed, I'm going to get taken to school, I'm going to
get faith. She reminded me of those things.
Well, you didn't have a bad childhood.
We've got a lot of darkness in front of us at this given the
situation, I tried to almost put her on this pedestal and say, oh
wow, this is really going to like open her up and she's going
to be available to me. And I think I just I kind of
created this fantasy of this like healed journey we were
going to go on together and she proved me wrong in no time.
So I then had to kind of over months, if not years, come to
the realization that I have this expectations of my mom that she
has never shown to me. Like, why would I expect her to
be totally vulnerable, sit and cry with me, you know, tell me
how terrible she feels when she's never given me that.
She's given me a lot of things, but she's never given me
emotional connection and support.
And so I had to come to the realization, wait a minute,
you're actually setting yourself up for failure because that's
not who she is. Just because you have this wild,
raw dynamic unfolding that still not going to break her down.
She's still going to put herself first.
She's still going to have her guard up.
And not even anything this big can allow her to connect with
you. It's my birth story that she's a
part of, and she can't tell the truth.
So I think I just had to realize if I want her in my life, I have
to accept her and the version that she is.
And then we've we've now kind of gone full circle where I only
expect from her the way that she's always been with me.
Welcome to DNA Surprises, a podcast that delves into the
world of unexpected DNA discoveries.
I'm your host Alexis, our salt. In July 2021, my life took a
surprising turn when I found out that I'm an NPE, a person who
has experienced a non paternal event.
In other words, my biological father isn't who I thought he
was. Join me as we explore the
stories of NP, ES, adoptees, and donor conceived people and their
families. Get ready to unravel the
astonishing journeys that begin with a simple DNA test.
This is DNA surprises. Every DNA surprise is unique.
The Who, what, when and why surrounding an NPE vary from
person to person. Still, after nearly 100
interviews, I've noticed consistent themes in these
stories. One of those themes is a
complicated mother child relationship.
When Jennifer took her DNA test, she had no idea that her family
tree would change forever. As it turns out, both her mother
and grandmother had relationships with the same man,
making Jennifer's aunts also her sisters and her cousins, also
her nieces and nephews. To add some clarity here, this
man is not Jennifer's grandfather.
He is a man that her grandmother had an affair with, resulting in
two of her aunts. She discusses how she's faced
the shame and stigma of this complicated story and how she's
navigated her relationship with her mother.
Jennifer and I spend quite a bit of time talking about the mother
daughter dynamic and how she was able to radically accept the
relationship for what it is, not what she wants it to be.
If you're currently struggling with this part of your story, I
hope this conversation helps you.
Thank you to Jennifer for so openly sharing her feelings on
this as well as her story. My name is Jennifer, I am 47
years old and I am in Texas. My story is kind of tangled in
and around a a web of like small town shenanigans.
The way I think my story begins is with my maternal grandmother
who I called my nanny back in the 50s, late 50s, early 60s.
She had some version of a a drone out affair with a man that
worked downtown in this small town.
And I would say that legends have it has it also photos that
I've had visibility to, you know, kind of speak to the fact
that she was like the cat's meow.
But I only know I'm a different version of her.
I only know my nanny that was like the repented save version
of her that followed like generations later.
So again, I only have that snapshot of her through stories
and some photos, but it's certainly like paints a tell of
her for me. So yes, my grandmother, she had
this love affair. I would say that's what I'm
going to call it with this man that worked downtown in this
small town. And this produced the first two
MPs in my family. So my mom was the first born
child to her married parents. So the proper, you know, up and
running family in the like early 50s.
And then about seven years later, my grandmother gave birth
to her second child, a daughter. And then two years later another
daughter was born. So in this long try, not
surprise where we've all learned different versions of one
another, we learned that my mom's two younger sisters were
MP ES. So all this discovery kind of
came to light in 2020. So.
So they didn't know. They found out through, I'm
assuming, DNA testing. Yes, everybody is through a
surprise. Just for fun.
DNA kit test. So they have their own stories,
right? Something I think I want to
highlight in my story is that my nanny who she passed away, I
think it was about eight or nine months before all these stories
started unfolding. So she knew some things as we've
learned over the past like four years and that she didn't share
with with any of us. But when the knowledge started
surfacing, you know, that's when we learned everything.
So my nanny, what I wanted to share is that she was my person.
So, you know, I have my family. I've got siblings.
I have aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews.
But she was really like this person to me that I always had
this very distinct draw towards. We shared a really strong bond
and love for one another that was pretty evident to most
people. She would never admit it, that
maybe I was her favorite grandchild, but that's the way
she made me feel. Yeah, they may all feel that
way. So yes, in 2020, an aunt learned
first that she had a biological father that was not her own.
And my mom actually shared this information with me that her
sister, so this is all in the maternal side of my family,
these learnings. So all three of them, my mom
shared with me that her sister found out through 23andMe that
she had a dad, a biological dad that she, you know, wasn't aware
of. She shared that with me.
And I was actually had just started a brand new job.
I was traveling for this job and I kept thinking about it.
I just didn't have the opportunity to really like
connect with my aunt on it, right.
And like, kind of share, like, you're on my mind.
I'm thinking of you. It just kept surfacing in my
head. A couple of months go by, the
jobs kind of like settled in and the pandemic hits and I became
furloughed. So as I'm like, you know, living
the very slow life at that point, I had time on my hands.
And that's when I was actually able to connect with my aunt and
share with her that, you know, I felt for her and it was just a
tough thing to comprehend. And I'm I'm there if she needs
me. What were you thinking in terms
of of your grandmother? So you kind of learned this
truth about your grandmother. Did that change your perception
at all? It didn't for me.
She had just passed away again, I think it was eight months
before, so I always knew that she had LED this life that I had
only had snapshots of in photos. So wasn't a surprise to me that
she may have been like a woman about town, so to speak.
But it didn't change the way any of my relationship with her from
1977 on. I just accepted it as that was a
part of her life that I didn't know.
Sure, sure. So with this new learning for my
aunt that I, you know, was able to process, at that point, I'm
like, oh, I think I'll log into my 23 me and me account, what
had been setting for maybe 2 1/2 years.
I had taken it a handful of years before, again, just for
fun to kind of see maybe a little bit of medical
information, maybe exactly where my lineage comes from, pretty
like surface stuff. I had never gone in and toggled
the view relatives, but why would I, right?
I had no idea what. Was yeah, You knew who all your
relatives were, right? Correct.
So. That being said, my aunt
actually was holding the information for me that she knew
something more than I knew other than just her being an MPE.
She didn't share with me things that she had visibility to
through her own 23andMe profile. So when I logged in, turned on
view, relatives names pop up, I actually see my aunt listed as
my sister and 40% DNA shared. Again, I knew nothing about DNA,
how that's broken apart, what percentages you set, share with
different family members. But the listing of sister, I did
look up and it's with 23andMe. It's like a suggested
relationship. So I just kind of went on about
my business, didn't think much of it.
I'm like, oh, they have that wrong scrambled, whatever that
might look like. I would say a couple of weeks
kind of tick by and I think everyone's kind of like waiting
for me to do the head scratch and make a phone call, but I
just don't. Again, COVID had just like taken
toll on the nation and and that's where my head was.
I was like, I had been furloughed.
Like, how long is this going to last?
You know what, what are we in for?
So a big distraction going on at the time.
And then one evening I was on the phone with my cousin.
So this is my maternal aunt's daughter.
We're just chatting like we do. She's actually six months older
than me. We grew up very close.
We grew up kind of like sisters. We were in the same grade.
So they would dress as like when we were younger in the small
town. You know, she's right there.
So we're together not only for holidays, but after school,
weekends, all those things. And she basically does like a
temperature check and she's like, what kind of mood are you
in? That's an interesting question.
Yeah, right. Like I'm free to talk.
Thank God for her. Honestly.
Actually, I had made a joke. I said, you know, I've seen this
information on 23andMe about your mom being listed as my
sister. Her dad must be my dad, meaning
my birth certificate dad. Totally kidding.
That would mean that my birth certificate dad, the
relationship to my aunt would be what, her brother-in-law, right?
So my birthday dad being married to my mom, that would be my
aunt's brother-in-law. So again, there he's about 10
years older than her. So I said, oh, that must be your
mom's dad. She's like, no, that's actually
not the case. This unknown bio dad that has
popped up, his name's Mr. on my mom's profile is actually your
dad too. And I was like, you've got to be
kidding me. Totally.
It didn't go past my like cranial frontal lobe like it did
not absorb. And this is the same aunt who is
an NPE, correct? Correct.
OK. So we have learned she has the
discovery that Mister Murphy is her dad.
She's listed as my sister. I don't process it.
I don't even process it when it's spelled out to me.
What it took is for me to get my brother.
So I grew up in a house with a brother.
He had done 23andMe. I reached out to him and I told
him I need your 23 new password. I need to get into your account.
So he gave that to me and essentially what I needed to do
was to go into his profile and turn the toggle on view
relatives because until I could see it, that was really my
checkpoint. I said to my cousin, well, I
need to see my brother and see that he's listed as my half
brother because I can't process what you're saying to me.
So I did that. I logged into my brother's
account, I viewed relatives and it showed me as his half sister.
So that for me was like concrete evidence that we had two
different biological dads. How are you feeling at that
point? Numb because I've I've grown up
very close to the maternal side of my family.
So again, mentioning my relationship with my grandmother
was always very tight growing up in a small town, my grandmother
owned like a plot of land. She had all three of her
daughters homes built on that land.
We can cross the Creek, we can walk over driveways, we can be
in and out of each other's homes.
So grew up very close to them, did not grow up terribly close
to my paternal my, you know, my birth certificate, dad's family.
So I never totally felt like a Harris.
I would say, you know, I saw them on on holidays, they lived
probably 4 hours away. So I just wasn't like a part of
the insurance and outs of their lives.
So there was definitely like a distance there.
But again, no clue that that wasn't my dad.
Did you have a close relationship with your dad?
I did. My parents divorced when I was
in high school. I was in agreeance with the
divorce. I thought it was probably time
to end the relationship. I would say from there the
distance began between me and my birth certificate.
Dad, right? He moved out of the house, he
was a heavy drinker, so that's just kind of what he put his
energy and time into and he's also deceased birth certificate
dad and bio dad are deceased before any of this is learned so
you. Couldn't talk to him about it or
anything after you had this. Discovery No and my paternal
grandmother also deceased. OK, so if I'm understanding this
correctly, your grandmother and your mother had a relationship
with the same man? Correct.
OK. Boom.
I was born in 1977, my 2:00. So this includes not only my
first aunt that learned, but my second aunt as well.
Her story comes a bit later. She was the third person to
actually learn. She was a part of this web that
had been woven. So, yeah, my grandmother had
this love affair with this man, created two children, never
spoke that we know of to anyone about this information.
And then, you know, maybe 15 to 17 years later, my mom had an
affair with this same guy. He was 20 years older than her.
And at this point when I've learned everything, she's the
only living family member that can speak to any of this story
because of everyone else being deceased.
What does she say? She says not much.
I think she has like, the typical kind of mother response
and a lot of these stories that I learn about probably her own
version of denial. You know, she's either blocked
it out, never let it in, or maybe she's played pretend for
no at this point. And I think it had been 43 years
and honestly was in disbelief, I would say at shock, in shock at
first was not truthful to me. Again, I, I at this point in the
story, it's been four years for me.
Actually, tomorrow is my. Four year.
Oh, wow. I I would say happy anniversary,
but that doesn't feel appropriate for this kind of
well, you can. Say that to me now.
I got a big smile on my face at this point.
It took a long time to get there, but yeah, my mom, she's
interesting around it. She will paint a picture into
the fact that oh, yes, during those years again, around 1977,
I was sowing my oats. I married your first dad very
young. We were doing our own things.
He was working nights. I would party at a house where
this man, Mr. He was hanging out, but I never had any
interest in him. She'll kind of like paint this
whole scene but won't put the varnish on the painting I would
say. OK.
And was she surprised or did you think she seemed surprised when
you confronted her? I do think she seems surprised
because when her younger sister had learned who it was, she was
all about it, sharing the story with me, sending me photos of
him. Never in a million years did she
have any hesitation around my aunt's story and who the man
was. Does she apologize to you or?
No. OK, A.
Common. Common response.
Yeah, she has zero accountability.
So we've been through our own process.
So again, four years tomorrow. She I definitely had like a
hiatus with her. I went six months or a little
bit more, no contact. She disrespected those
boundaries the entire time I tried to go to therapy with her.
I learned in maybe second session, this isn't going to
work for me. She could not revisit the story
and kind of do a redo. She was given the chance to do a
redo. You've learned this information.
Jennifer's having these feelings.
What would you say to her? I can't come up with anything.
What's her response? So complete shutdown mode and
and again, not surprising for her.
But now you, you had her go to therapy with you.
So obviously, I mean, you can smile about it now, but it did
hit you at some point pretty hard.
Can you talk about that? I would say today that was
actually my hardest lesson to learn was the capacity that my
mother does not have to lean into this and to put my feelings
first. So of course, learning that my
biological dad is someone I've never met and will never meet
was a huge shock. Of course, learning that my two
maternal aunts are also my paternal sisters was literally
the biggest head spin I hope I ever go through in life.
You know that not only makes that the case, but my maternal
cousins are my paternal nieces and nephews.
Right, right. It completely changes your
relationship to all of them. It totally does, yeah.
Yeah, in theory. In theory, on paper.
You know, we're talking about laughing now.
I I've even come to a point where I can laugh that my family
tree looks more like a wreath. It doesn't exactly have roots in
the ground and branches in the sky.
It makes like a full circle. But yeah, there's a lot of pain
and hurt around the relationship with my mom.
We've always had a very safe, like surface relationship, so
not a lot of highs and lows. She doesn't really go there
emotionally with anything, but we've never had anything like
this big blow up in her face and have to confront it together.
So it's been a disappointment for sure.
I've really just had to work through what is our new dynamic
like for me, I've had to be very patient and very understanding
with her. It's just painted a picture of
her as like a flawed human being rather than my mom that should
should do right by me. The crushing, most heart
crushing part about it is that she will protect her own
feelings in order to jeopardize mine.
And that's really painful. That's a really hard life
lesson. Yeah, and it does seem to be
kind of a a common thread, right, where moms just can't go
there, they block it and and accountability can be a huge
issue. Were you able then to learn
anything more about your biological father?
Considering that he had passed and your mom didn't share a
whole bunch? What were you able to learn, if
anything? Growing up in this really small
town in Texas, he was actually the editor and like owner of the
local newspaper. So we've got this tiny little
newspaper that comes out once a week.
So when I was growing up, that's what he was doing.
So I can't recall this man. I know his name and like his
profession just because of who he was and what he did in town,
but I can't recall ever seeing him or knowing who he was.
He actually passed away the year I graduated high school, so in
1995 he died of cancer. So again, I would have been very
young had I ever like crossed paths with him.
But because we're from such a small town, we've got, I have
photos of him. I have had been in contact with
his great niece. I believe she is.
He had a handful of siblings, but they're all either passed
away or in a capacity mentally, you know, elderly where they
they can't speak to anything. What I did do in some of my
darkest of days and like those nights I couldn't sleep.
You can actually online, you can pull up these newspapers from
the 70s, even going back to the 60s and the 50s when he was the
owner and editor and I can see articles he wrote, I can see
photos he took, I can see places he went and kind of some of his
interests. So that's very interesting.
Again, very surface kind of things right to learn about I
published a newspaper, but they do give me some insights.
So you. You find these results, you
finally kind of accept them. After that initial shock and and
denial, you talk to your mom. Not a lot there.
What else are you doing to process this?
Well, of course I've reached, you know, reaching out to my my
aunts slash new sisters. There was a time there when I
tried to put them in a sister box.
I'm like, Oh, I've never had sisters before, but it that is
just not our dynamic. They are my aunts and that's
just the way that it is. My cousins aren't my nieces and
nephews that will just never change and I can never even like
shift the label and you know my dynamic with them.
So I definitely was able to kind of like connect with the her
really one of them of the two more so my one aunt connect with
her, kind of grieve through it together.
I have a lot of phone calls and just processing together was
helpful, but I do think that I probably held it in a different
capacity. All of my family comes from the
school of, I would say pull yourself up by the bootstraps,
that kind of thing where I immediately, one of the first
steps that I took was reaching out to find a therapist.
Once I could comprehend like the layers of all of this, the
generational trauma that my family will never be what I once
thought it was. We could never go forward
together in the same ways. I knew that I needed help, that
I could not process it on my own.
So that was a huge part of my healing was finding the right
therapist. And I have been with her for
almost my entire journey. So maybe six months in is when
we made the connection. So it's been over like about 3
1/2 years I believe at this point.
Wow, that's incredible and and good for you for having the
wherewithal to say I've got to find some support through.
This and I think with my mom having such a like kind of palm
in my face, that just made it so much worse.
So I knew I just, I needed help to sort through all the emotions
and really just how to approach the struggles, right.
I had a lot of homework in the early days and early months.
And then also a huge part of my therapy has been the focus on
like the new relationship dynamic with my mom and what are
my boundaries look like and what am I willing?
What kind of behavior am I willing to accept from her?
Because again, all of this blew up and it was so painful and
shocking. You know you've been through it,
but it's like the rug is jerked out from underneath you.
Absolutely and and the relationships with with moms I
think often do change. You said for a while you went no
contact with her. At what point did you resume
contact and what does that look like now after, you know,
learning things through therapy? Wife was moving forward while I
was processing everything. So I initially had the learning.
I tried to talk to her on my own.
I tried, you know, I even had moments where it was, Oh my
gosh, this one, this terrible thing will bring us closer
together. We've always had this very like
surface relationship and I thought, Oh my God, there's so
many raw emotions and so many learnings to be had together.
We're totally going to connect on this and grow together and
have this, you know, fairy tale mother daughter relationship.
And that would sideways very quickly because she was not
responding to me reaching out to her.
She would say things to me that I'll never forget.
She would say things she did tell me one time.
The reason you're struggling with this so much more than me
is because I'm closer to God than you are.
So in the meantime, my stepfather, who has been in my
life since I was 18 years old, so decades, right?
I never grew up in house with him, but he was a great bonus
dad to me. He's becoming ill and struggling
and declining very quickly. So my mom is dealing with this.
So I had to give her the respect there and I had to give him the
respect I think is what it was. And his like failing, ailing
years. I didn't want to remove myself
from him. So I was around, you know, them
as a, as a married couple when I had first learned all of this to
support him and we were trying to get him help.
So that was a lot of our our focus at the time.
So there was kind of this dual drama going on, I would say.
Sure, yeah. And then once he passed away, I
believe that was in 2021, something make whether it be
subconscious or not, kind of shifted in me and I said, OK,
now I've got to like protect myself at this point.
And that's when I informed my mom.
It was actually the learning of my second aunt.
In 2021, my stepdad passed away and I happened to log into
23andMe. I guess I'm torturing myself at
this point. And there she blows.
I, I had said the entire time, I know my other aunt is, is a part
of this. I know she is.
And what, what was it that made
you think that? She and I look so much alike.
I grew up super close to her. She only has one son and she's
15 years older than me. So she's, you know, a bit
younger than my mom and then 15 years older than me.
I just grew up really close to her.
She didn't have a daughter. She was like my young fun aunt
that would like take me school shopping and let me like drive
her car when I was far too young and just treated me really
special and did sweet things for me as when I was a kid.
But we were always told, hey, you guys could be sisters
thinking, of course, we, you know, come from the same
lineage, not knowing that there's this dual thing going on
with lineage. So I just had this truth in my
heart that I knew she had to be a part of this story just
because honestly, based on my connection to her, maybe, but
also that our looks are so similar.
It's actually her son that takes the test.
So my cousin, my maternal cousin slash paternal nephew, he pops
up with a strange amount of DNA shared.
You go to, you know, view shared relatives, I believe is listed
as and you've got them on both sides of the family.
So that gave away to me that, yes, she's also a part of Mr.
C's legacy and how does it feel to see it the the second time?
I guess third time total, but second.
Pissed, but just like this rage of Oh my God we're going to have
to go through this again, I was actually shaking.
That is the one and only time that I emailed my therapist and
I said can I please put an appointment in before my
scheduled time. I'm I'm curious, what about it
made you angry because the first aunt you had compassion, of
course you didn't know that you were involved.
And then for yourself, you have that grief, shock, all those
feelings. And then the third time you feel
anger, you said it was because you were going to have to go
through it all again. But did something else come up?
It's like you're the truth is handed to you on a platter.
But I couldn't get willing participants to admit to the
truth. And it was so very frustrating.
Not that my mom knows what happened, you know, when she was
10 years old or whatever, but we have so much evidence and
science based evidence. But I couldn't get her to speak
to my story and give me the truth.
So I think it really like exacerbated some of those
wounds. Absolutely, that makes perfect
sense. Is that when you go no contact
with her? That's when I go no contract
with her. She tends to make a lot of the
story about her, believe it or not.
She just had a terrible response when I got on the phone and I
said, OK, so your second sister's involved as well.
She has this cackle, laughs it off, knows I'm in all of this
pain for months on end and just can't even put herself in my
shoes to empathize. Not even for that, you know,
phone call. And it just really set me off
and turned me off. And I told her during that
conversation, you're holding me back.
I can't move forward with you in my life.
So from from this point forward, I'm not going to be speaking to
you. Keep you posted.
And you said she didn't respect those boundaries.
So what did that look like? She just continued to text me.
You know, something would happen with somebody, maybe that we
knew together, like a person in town, and she would want to,
like, reach out to me about it. Only through text.
Never did she phone call me. But I never responded.
My stomach would drop when her name would come up on my phone.
Like, here we go again. You know, it's kind of like my
visceral reaction because I just couldn't see clearly with trying
to like focus on my own healing and then have the dynamics of
her wanting to deny my truth. I just felt that at that time,
it was appropriate. Did it feel great to me?
No. At the end of the day, that's my
mom. We have a lifetime of shared
history. It was hard to completely go
cold on her. But you know, I shared an
example of the God comment she made right before that,
something she had also done that kind of like solidified my
decision to go no contact is I get a text from her and it's a
photo of myself and my brother, which I now know to be my half
brother. It's this Olan Mills photo.
You know, I'm like 3 and he's 5 or whatever.
And her caption or her text below the photo is, it's hard to
believe the results, so fully gaslighting me.
And it was really painful. I can remember, like, where I
was, what I was doing when I got that text out of the blue.
And I just thought, you know, I don't have to put up with this.
Like, I don't have to be sitting here enjoying this moment and
have this sneak attack. That is my boundary.
So that's what all solidified, essentially cutting her off for
some time. OK.
And how did you come back together in a way?
What we decided to do, I think, you know, at this point I'm, I'm
in contact a lot with my aunt, her sister, my sister also at
this point it's like who shares sisters with their own mother
like that's. Yeah, it's very confusing.
It is very confusing and my entire foundation was, you know,
shook with my own discovery and then my mom not being able to
support all of that pain and suffering.
A lot of my journey as well and my recovery has been around the
shame that I carried just around having that new kind of like
aunt, sister. Dynamic.
Yeah, I, I was going to ask about that because it is sort of
this interesting experience that you're having.
I imagine that it's something that happened a lot.
Maybe it still happens in other cultures, but in our history,
but there is like maybe a little bit of a stigma or or shame that
kind of butts up against it. If you feel comfortable, can you
talk more about that? Yeah, I would say, you know, I
think like the small town was kind of what led to this.
I would imagine just because there's only 3000 people walking
about any given day. So I would imagine that's what
even laid the foundation to for this situation to present
itself. But I've always kind of like
beat to my own drum. And I've really prided myself in
having removed myself from this small town.
I would never want to change where I grew up or those
childhood memories. But the moment I was able to
leave, I took off and I soared and I never looked back.
So it really was like a kick in the gut to kind of learn like,
oh, you've come so far and you've I had this kind of like
creative journey along life. And then let's ground you in a
very shocking way to let you know that you came from this
community. That's quite tangled, right?
And the word that always comes to me is I actually have this
this T-shirt I've had for years. But what it says on the front is
backwoods, baby. And it's just like, oh, you
know, because it's like, oh, you came from the small town, You're
from the sticks or from the backwoods.
I have this story, right? That's so intimate to me and I'm
afraid to share it because it's like embarrassing in a way.
I've had to work through it as well.
But I wanted to paint Mr. as this big jerk that had all these
ulterior motives and like, had, you know, again, this is all a
story I've painted in my head that he had this love affair
ongoing for years with my grandmother and maybe something
went sideways, not in his favor. And then does he go after my
mom? It's kind of like AFU.
And then I'm this FU baby. Like, I don't know.
So a lot of questions around how did this come to be sort of
thing? At the end of the day, perhaps
my mom didn't know about Mr. and my grandmother, but he knew,
right? Right.
He knew exactly what he was doing.
That was a part of my process is that this deceitful man is like
his blood's running through my veins because I again, I don't
have anyone to like reach out to and validify exactly how this
all went about. OK.
Yeah. Thank you so much for kind of
speaking to that because, you know, a huge purpose with this
podcast is to reduce that shame and stigma.
And it's awesome to hear that you've been able to overcome it
and still kind of working through some of the pieces.
It's a couple of things, like when I would first, even to my
closest SO my closest of friends, I immediately had them
on the phone or in person and telling them my full story.
Totally shook. They're there for me.
But there are a subset of like I would say my Halo friends,
right? Who I would say, Oh yeah, I had
this terrible learning through 23andMe and my dad's not my dad,
but it took me a couple of years to share that second effect of
my story. I couldn't even share my story
to some of my own people again until I had processed on my own.
What do you think helped you through?
That I think my commitment to therapy and my commitment from
my therapist and just the continued focus, it's probably
been, gosh, a couple of years ago now, I would just have this
twisted kind of irky, like, Oh my God, I can't believe those
are my sisters. I know a lot of NPS struggle
with I don't know who my family is or they deny my reality or
they, you know, I reach out to them and they want nothing to do
with me. Very painful things that some
people go to through in regards to their story.
I don't have that built into my story, but I had the shame
around sharing sisters with my own mom.
And then one day I'm like in the shower thinking about things and
I had this very just kind of aha revelation that really just it
was about taking the narrative and turning it maybe 180°.
I just thought to myself, I have been with my people all along.
They are not a mystery to me. They've loved me from the
beginning. I've got to spend every holiday
and birthday and weekend and some vacations with them.
All the while a twisted secret we weren't aware of, but I have
all shared memories with them. They're my family, so I don't
have that pain and suffering of like never knowing them or never
having spent my growing up years or my time with them.
That's a really beautiful perspective, and I know that
your mom kind of did a little bit of the spiritual bypassing
right by saying I'm good with it.
Because my. Religion and and everything and,
and I'm never here for toxic positivity, but I am always here
for Silver Linings when we can find them.
And I think that that's a really beautiful perspective that you
can have gratitude for the fact that you were around these
people and they aren't a mystery to you.
No, and he probably wasn't aware of any of it, you know?
Sure, sure. OK, I I.
I think I remember this from the meet up that you joined.
Did you share that you were becoming a coach?
I did, yes. So that would be another thing
to speak to in regards to my healing.
It's that human connection, right?
And I just, when I first heard my story, of course, I have my
aunt that I can kind of like lean on, but she was just
processing it differently than me when I had a therapist and I
have friends to talk to, but I needed the community.
I needed to sit across from either a Zoom camera, whatever
it might be, a circle, whatever. And someone say to me, I know
exactly the way you feel right now, right?
So yes, and all my like, kind of like digging.
That's when I was really turned on to podcast to hear people
speak of their stories. But just lots of research I was,
I was doing and I learned about the International Association of
Trauma Recovery Coaches. So you know, that's an online
group that offers trauma recovery coaching in one
capacity. So I was able to take those
classes and fulfill that and and earn my certificate.
And then beyond that, they offer an advanced certificate that is
just around the MPE and those stories and, you know, the
healing of that journey. So I then took those classes and
checked off that certificate. Yeah.
So I am actually like certified as a trauma recovery coach with
an NPE specialty. And are you currently seeing
clients? I'm not.
I'm very open to being coach, you know, to anybody who's in
need of help, but I don't actually have a website or any
kind of like name out there, any kind of marketing happening.
OK, well if you do, please share so that I can connect to the
community with you. I'm always excited to see more
resources available as this phenomenon continues to grow.
Yes, no doubt. I mean, I, I have an e-mail
address that I could give. Sure.
Yeah, if you want to get that to me.
I'll put it in the show notes. It's actually
00j.harrisharris@gmail.com so totally willing and willing and
open to talk to anyone one-on-one that's going through
their own strife, as you know. I know what it's like.
Yeah, absolutely. What's next for you on this
path? That's funny that you ask.
Getting my coaching up and running is definitely a focus.
I've just had a lot of like life events, actually relocating.
Gosh, in 10 days I believe it is.
I've switched careers, I've been traveling there.
So I think the continued focus around coaching in some
capacity, I don't think it will ever be my main force, but to
stay a part of the community and be as helpful as possible is is
definitely like a focus for me. I would say I feel today, I feel
whole and recovered. I have my moments.
My mom is in my life. We have a very, I would say
boundary respectful relationship.
At this point. I just learned I have a better
just kind of personal balance if I allow her to be in my life,
but kind of under my rules and regulations.
That's what worked for me. Absolutely.
Yeah. So a lot of radical acceptance
there with my mom. She's who she is, and she's very
limited, and she's shown it in a number of ways.
So that will probably always be a part of my journey is just
kind of, I guess, nurturing my own heart around my relationship
with her and make sure that I stay in recovery mode, Right.
I mean, honestly, she would like, never speak of it again if
I never did. I'd like to remind her though of
my situation. We have phone conversations.
They're very surface. I reach out to her for like mom
things. I'm like, Oh my gosh, I
overwatered this plant and it's drowning.
What can I do? Help me with the soil.
I don't cry to her. I don't show my true self.
She's not available to me. So I've just I've gone back to
the dynamic that I've always known.
Yeah, thank you for talking about this.
I really think that there's people out there who probably
need to hear that taking it for what it is and not what you want
it to be is. 100% every day because I don't, I don't
necessarily want this to be my story, right?
You know, I'm not in resistance to it at this point.
I would say at one point I didn't necessarily want this to
be my story, but it is. It is my story and she is who
she is and we are where we are. And so do I feel sad for her as
a person? Yeah, I do.
I it's, it's hard at times. But I, I just, I know where I
can and can't go with her. And I don't really address that
with her at this point. I don't, you know, say to her
you're letting me down or you're disappointing me.
I don't have to because I don't reach out to her in those ways.
You know, I, I may mention that I like to remind her of my
story. That's just some sort of like, I
don't know, power that I hold. Again, she would like go the
rest of her lifetime never Speaking of it.
I had mentioned to you earlier when we first started chatting,
I, I wanted to highlight my relationship with my nanny,
right? Like so Mr. he had this
relationship with her and they had these like love children and
whatever that might have been. But again, I've always had this
this draw to her. We're always very close.
And I this the most recent mention to my mom.
I had her on the phone and I gently brought something up and
I said, you know, I've decided that it's the Mr. in me that was
so in love and like drawn to nanny.
And she just scoffed at me as quick as she could.
But you know, these are those sleepless nights early on where
it's like, what in the world is this twisted story leading to?
And I just had another again in a ha, like maybe it's the him in
me that was just like so in love with her in a sense, and just so
enamored by her creativity and all these things that she did.
Again, it just kind of helps me kind of close all the chapters
and fit all the puzzle pieces together.
I'm like, well that would make total sense.
Yeah, yeah. You know, we keep coming back to
like mom and that tough relationship myself.
And as with any MPE, again, if you go down to those deep
thoughts, and I've always had this distance with my mom in a
sense, again, she would never admit that, but it goes back to
my birth story. And you know, has she known this
all along? Has she always had a bit of a
wall up between us Because she knows the story and she knows
where I come from and so she's never allowed me in from the get
go. I never had a chance.
What advice do you have for a parent who is keeping adna
surprise from their child's MY? Advice would be to tell the
truth. I think it's a terribly hard
conversation to have, but I think at the end of the day, if
you can speak the truth to someone about their own story,
that's only going to build trust in the relationship.
With a parent and a child, what advice would you offer someone
who just uncovered Adna surprise?
Take a breath, go for a walk, take in nature.
Really just try to ground yourself in any kind of
stability that you've always known.
I don't like to offer the advice that time is going to heal all
the wounds. When you're living in it moment
by moment, it is far too hard to see past that.
So I think any kind of like grounding or stability that
you're accustomed to, really lean into that and remind
yourself you're still the person that you know yourself to be.
You may have a different makeup, or maybe ethnicity or
relationships with folks are not what you thought, but that
doesn't change the personality and the character that you have
fostered and have become along the way.
It's one of those this changes everything, yet this changes
nothing. Jennifer, thank you so much for
joining me today. Thank you for being so
vulnerable with your experience with your mom and overcoming
shame and stigma. I really think this will help a
lot of people and I wish you the best as you move forward in your
journey. Thank you so much, Alexis.
Thanks again to Jennifer for sharing her story.
If you have Adna Surprise that you'd like to share, please
submit your story at dnasurprises.com.
Until next time, this episode of DNA Surprises was hosted,
produced and edited by me, Alexis Ourselt.
It was mixed and mastered by Josh Ourselt of Siren Recording
Studios.