1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:04,560 The way they told us was, you know, if I were in their shoes, 2 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:09,880 it was horrible. Like you as an adult and as a 3 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:14,040 parent, like you can't say those things to a child. 4 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:22,480 So I think hearing that was really hard and there was some 5 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:25,960 truth to it. I mean, my mother, she is an 6 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,600 alcoholic even to this day, I'm pretty sure. 7 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:33,240 But that doesn't mean you say she didn't want you, you know? 8 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:38,000 Welcome to DNA Surprises, a podcast that delves into the 9 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:40,640 world of unexpected DNA discoveries. 10 00:00:41,160 --> 00:00:47,160 I'm your host, Alexis Oursalt. In July 2021, my life took a 11 00:00:47,160 --> 00:00:52,040 surprising turn when I found out that I'm an NPE, a person who 12 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:54,880 has experienced a non paternal event. 13 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:59,400 In other words, my biological father isn't who I thought he 14 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:02,400 was. Join me as we explore the 15 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:07,520 stories of NP, ES, adoptees and donor conceived people and their 16 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:10,320 families. Get ready to unravel the 17 00:01:10,320 --> 00:01:14,480 astonishing journeys that begin with a simple DNA test. 18 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:21,840 This is DNA Surprises. Welcome to the season 8 finale 19 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:26,360 of DNA Surprises. I can't believe it's been 2 1/2 20 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:28,880 years since I started this podcast. 21 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:33,640 I think it's finning that I'm recording this introduction on 22 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:37,120 the three-year anniversary of my own DNA Surprise. 23 00:01:37,960 --> 00:01:42,840 So much has changed since then, largely in part to this amazing 24 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:46,960 community. So before we begin, I just want 25 00:01:46,960 --> 00:01:50,480 to give thanks. Thank you for being here and for 26 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:53,720 listening. Thank you to my incredible DNA 27 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:59,120 surprise community on Patreon. This podcast is currently 100% 28 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:02,080 independent. I don't have a network or 29 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:07,760 advertisers and I produced, host and edit every episode with the 30 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:10,800 kind of care I hope someone would give my own story. 31 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:15,520 Thank you for your support. It's because of this community 32 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:20,560 of listeners, storytellers, friends, and family that I'm so 33 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:25,040 excited to continue this work. In this episode of DNA 34 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:30,160 Surprises, I'm joined by Deanna, who shares her NPE story. 35 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:35,200 Deanna has experienced unspeakable amounts of hardship 36 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:39,160 in her life. From abandonment to abuse to her 37 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:44,640 DNA discovery, her story is difficult and powerful. 38 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:49,240 You'll hear how she's reckoning with the might have beens and 39 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:52,000 the wise. You'll also learn how she's 40 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:56,160 moving forward, including being the person she needed when she 41 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:58,440 was younger for her own children. 42 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:02,360 Thank you for sharing your story, Deanna. 43 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:09,360 I am Deanna, I am 36 and I'm originally from a small town in 44 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:12,760 South Central PA Pennsylvania and I currently live in 45 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:18,120 Cincinnati, OH. So I was born to two teenage 46 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:20,560 parents. My mom was 17 when I was born my 47 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:23,640 dad was 19. My father was actually still 48 00:03:23,640 --> 00:03:26,840 living at home with his parents, he had just graduated high 49 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:30,360 school. My mother did not have a very 50 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:34,160 stable home life. So when I was born, I actually 51 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:39,000 moved into my grandparents house with my father and my mother as 52 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,920 well. My mom, like I said, she didn't 53 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:46,440 have a very stable home life and she was just a mess all around. 54 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:50,000 If she didn't have a job, as far as I know, she didn't have a 55 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:53,400 car, She didn't have a license when I was born. 56 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:57,680 She ended up having to drop out of school, repeated her 57 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:00,880 sophomore year. She did go back but never 58 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:05,240 ultimately finished. That was kind of the theme of my 59 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:08,840 early years. My dad did save up enough money 60 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:14,520 to buy us a trailer so we moved into a trailer park when I was 61 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:17,440 still baby and then shortly after my younger brother was 62 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:20,600 born. So we are 22 months apart and my 63 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:25,480 father also worked night shift so he was not around at night 64 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:30,600 and my mother would often times leave us at home alone. 65 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:34,560 I don't know how long this went on for, but eventually it got 66 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:38,440 back to my dad that she was leaving us at home and one 67 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:43,280 particular night she had left went to see another guy. 68 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:46,720 On the way home she got into a car accident. 69 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:50,000 She had been drinking, didn't have a license, as I mentioned. 70 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:55,960 And so she called my dad had to tell him what she had just done. 71 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,600 So he called his parents, my grandparents, and you know, it 72 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,440 was like 2:00 in the morning. They had to come get her and 73 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:06,600 ended up being the guy that she had got into an accident with, 74 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:09,920 wanted to press charges. And of course, knowing all of 75 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:14,680 the trouble that she would be in, my grandparents paid him for 76 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:16,880 the damages. Nobody was, you know, hurt or 77 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:21,600 severely injured or anything, but they ended up paying him to 78 00:05:22,280 --> 00:05:24,480 not press charges and kind of move on. 79 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:26,800 So that it's really saved my mom. 80 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:30,360 But I think that specific incident is what really shed 81 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:34,120 light on to what was happening while my father was away at work 82 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:39,800 when I was two years old. My grandmother, well, my whole 83 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,560 family, I guess, my aunts, uncles, where they had a 84 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:45,480 birthday party for me and my brother's baby. 85 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:50,320 At this point, they were all at the art trailer and one of our 86 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:54,960 babysitters was there as well, which was by babysitter, I mean, 87 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:56,760 it was a friend of her as a high school friend. 88 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:00,080 She wasn't like calling, you know, calling in young kids to 89 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:02,840 come help. It was a high school friend and 90 00:06:02,840 --> 00:06:07,920 my great grandmother. So my dad's grandmother was also 91 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:10,080 there. She was still alive at the time 92 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:14,120 and, and my babysitter's name was Tammy, my mom's friend. 93 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:18,960 And she said to my grandparents, you need to watch out for her. 94 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:21,400 She's after Michael, Michael being my father. 95 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:25,160 About six months or so later, we ended up moving same trailer, 96 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:27,320 moved it to a different trailer park. 97 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:30,760 And within just a matter of a couple days, my mom left. 98 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:35,840 She left me and my my baby brother with my father. 99 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:40,920 He was a single dad and his very early 20s working night shift. 100 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:44,560 So my grandparents stepped in to help out a lot. 101 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:47,480 So thankfully we had them and and that's been a pretty 102 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:49,080 consistent theme throughout my life. 103 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:58,280 But sure enough, in 1993, my dad ended up marrying Tammy. 104 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:02,720 So your great grandma was right. She was right. 105 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,920 Yes. That was in May of 93. 106 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:09,840 My mother, during all of this, she was very in and out of our 107 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:11,480 lives. I don't actually have any 108 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:14,520 memories of her, like physically being present with us. 109 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:18,800 I, I have memories of, oh, your mom's supposed to come see you 110 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:21,000 today or your mom's going to bring you a birthday present 111 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:25,960 today, like hearing things. But never, I don't ever remember 112 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:27,880 her being physically being there. 113 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,800 Tammy ended up adopting me and my brother. 114 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:36,760 So she now she is our stepmom and in the state of 115 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:40,720 Pennsylvania, our birth certificates were changed, 116 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,640 right? So now my birth certificate says 117 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:47,440 Tammy is our is my biological mother, even though she's not. 118 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:52,280 I would have been five or six. Do you remember, were you close 119 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:55,360 to Tammy? Did you want her to adopt you or 120 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:59,760 what that situation was like? Looking back, I don't really 121 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:01,760 remember. Like I said, I have no memories 122 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:05,480 of my mom. I have one memory of my mother 123 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:08,520 and it was after my dad got married to Tammy. 124 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:12,280 She did finally come around. She had disappeared for like a 125 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:14,880 year and a half completely. She didn't come, she didn't 126 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:17,760 call, nothing. And I think that's probably 127 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:20,840 ultimately what led to the adoption. 128 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:25,720 But after they got married, she did come back around and they 129 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:29,960 had made a deal with her that she could see us, me and my 130 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:32,840 brother, if she was supervised only. 131 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:37,480 So her mother, my grandmother, my maternal grandmother was with 132 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:40,559 her, came and picked us up. And we were to go to my 133 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:44,520 grandmother's house with my mom and we were to stay there. 134 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:47,600 We weren't to go anywhere else. And my grandmother wasn't to 135 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:53,120 leave us with my mom alone. Well, my grandmother did leave 136 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:59,960 and then my mother took us. I think we went to a friend's 137 00:08:59,960 --> 00:09:01,360 house. I mean, I just remember being at 138 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:03,720 like a party and we were in the basement with a bunch of 139 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:07,440 strangers that I didn't know. And, and, you know, cops ended 140 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,080 up being called. And apparently it was this whole 141 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:13,120 ordeal where she had taken us and they didn't know where we 142 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:15,040 were. And my grandmother came home and 143 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:18,200 we were gone. And so that was literally the 144 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:22,520 only memory I ever have of my entire childhood of my mother. 145 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:23,400 And it was. Wow. 146 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:25,840 One day, yeah. I'm so sorry. 147 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:31,160 That's, yeah, really hard. And so I do remember like even 148 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:34,520 in the courtroom, them saying, do you want her to be your mom? 149 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:38,720 And me thinking, but she is my mom, but she's not my mom at 150 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:41,120 this time. Like I remember being coached to 151 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:44,680 say you you gotta say this to the judge and, and that sort of 152 00:09:44,680 --> 00:09:46,320 thing. But it was very confusing 153 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:50,360 because I was always told your mom is going to come today. 154 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:52,000 And of course she never would show up. 155 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:56,120 I, it's so hard to explain just not knowing who your mom is and 156 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:59,000 this other person being there. And she didn't live with us 157 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:04,440 until my parents until they got married, but she was there far 158 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:07,040 more consistently. And, and when you're that young, 159 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:10,440 I think you just latch on to whatever figure you have in your 160 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:15,080 life, you know. And so it was very confusing. 161 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,960 I'll just say that. And in the beginning, she wanted 162 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:21,280 to be a part of our lives, or at least it seemed that way, right? 163 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:26,080 She was very into taking care of us and wanting to be our mom and 164 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:28,760 that sort of thing. However, things were not 165 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:31,360 perfect. My father, he was put in a 166 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:36,080 shitty situation, right? And he was young and I just 167 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:38,160 remember he was always so stressed out. 168 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,920 We were poor, we grew up poor. So that didn't help. 169 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:45,720 If I had to describe him in one word, it would just be angry. 170 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:48,760 For as long as I can remember, he was always just an angry 171 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:51,880 person. So there was a lot of yelling, 172 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:55,640 screaming, chaos. Even when he was married, it 173 00:10:55,720 --> 00:11:00,120 that didn't change, right? He was still angry abuse. 174 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:04,880 I mean, he was abusive to both my brother and me, and she 175 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:09,040 didn't help that in any way. Like she kind of stood back and 176 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:11,960 let it happen. I never felt close to her. 177 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:17,680 I do think that when I was that young, it was someone that I 178 00:11:17,680 --> 00:11:21,000 admired maybe for a brief period of time, but I never felt close. 179 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:28,360 To her, after she adopted you, was your mom, your biological 180 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:31,960 mother still kind of in and out of your life? 181 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:35,200 Or would did she completely stop contact at that point? 182 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:37,440 Right. So she gave up her rights 183 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:40,000 completely as a parent. So she wasn't legally, wasn't 184 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:41,880 allowed to contact us, wasn't allowed. 185 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:45,200 To be in our lives. OK, I wasn't sure if it was one 186 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:47,880 of those things where like the stepparent adopted, but maybe 187 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:50,280 she still wanted to be in your life in some capacity. 188 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:52,600 OK. So no contact after that? 189 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,040 No contact at all? Yeah, Did you? 190 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:58,160 Still have a relationship with her parents, your maternal 191 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:00,120 grandparents? Or did that stop as well? 192 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:04,240 It did eventually stop. They were around for a while. 193 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:08,000 I remember my grandmother used to take me to Kmart and buy me 194 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:11,480 Barbies. She did come around and visit 195 00:12:11,560 --> 00:12:14,200 and I think birthdays for a time being. 196 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:17,560 And my my mom also had a sister who would take us. 197 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:21,960 She had two boys as well, so two cousins that we would go to this 198 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:25,080 local campsite. I have some vague memories of 199 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:27,560 them because they were in our lives more frequently. 200 00:12:27,560 --> 00:12:30,920 I wouldn't say they were super consistent, but at least more 201 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:33,880 frequently than my mother. And so I had those kinds of 202 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:37,760 memories as well. But again, because of the 203 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:41,680 situation, it was just so confusing to me that I think at 204 00:12:41,680 --> 00:12:45,880 one point in time I thought maybe that was those words like 205 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,360 dreams or, you know, maybe I made that up in my head. 206 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:50,320 Maybe it was a figment of my imagination. 207 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:55,120 Because once we were adopted, we never talked about it again. 208 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:58,160 We didn't talk about Aunt Grandma, We didn't talk about my 209 00:12:58,160 --> 00:12:59,800 cousins. We didn't talk about any of 210 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:03,400 that. So life goes on. 211 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:07,400 My dad and stepmom, who effectively is not my mother 212 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:09,920 since she's adopted me and my brother. 213 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:14,680 They proceed to have a child. Our worlds were just turned 214 00:13:14,680 --> 00:13:16,960 completely upside down at that point. 215 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:20,680 I mean things weren't great, my dad was already abusive to us, 216 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:25,240 but it got so much worse once they had their own child. 217 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:30,520 We were just there basically to clean and take care of the baby 218 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:33,320 and do things around the house. I mean, we didn't have a 219 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:35,720 childhood. We can really play. 220 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:39,680 My dad was so strict. It was not a good home situation 221 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:42,040 at all. And then they had another child. 222 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:44,840 Life was just ultimately pure hell at that point. 223 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:51,600 But between my two sisters being born, my brother and I were on 224 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:55,560 the bus and I just remember this one kid out of nowhere just 225 00:13:55,560 --> 00:13:59,440 started picking on us. And he kept saying weird things 226 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,840 like, you don't know who I am, but I know who you are and your 227 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:05,840 mother's going to come take you and all of these weird things. 228 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:10,360 And so I finally went home and I was probably in 3rd or 4th grade 229 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:13,440 at this point in time. And I, I told them like I, I 230 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:15,640 don't know who this kid is, but he won't leave us alone. 231 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:21,320 And Long story short, that's how we essentially found out that we 232 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:23,960 were adopted. Because at this point, all of 233 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:28,600 those memories were distant memories, never discussed, never 234 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:30,200 brought up. She was our mom. 235 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:33,880 So that was kind of like having to really relive that bombshell 236 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:37,400 all over again. So you'd completely forgotten 237 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:40,320 what happened and and your mom taking it, that's something that 238 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:44,000 came back later in your memory. So you were. 239 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:47,800 So this is how you find out that your your mom is not your 240 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:50,600 biological mother. Yes, yeah. 241 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:54,560 And I don't know if I had forgotten or if it was more of 242 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:57,560 like, it's just such a confusing time when you're that little and 243 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:00,560 you don't understand what's going on around you and the 244 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:03,160 parental figures aren't consistent in your life. 245 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:07,720 And I don't know if I forgot or I suppressed it or I just. 246 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:10,880 And it's not talked about. And it wasn't talked about, 247 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:14,240 right, Right. So it's just super confusing. 248 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:18,560 But that then it all made a lot more sense because then I was 249 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:22,840 like, OK, I wasn't crazy. I do remember those people from 250 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:26,080 when I was younger that I couldn't connect the dots to, 251 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:28,640 you know, and all of that was real. 252 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:33,160 Yeah, and I'm really curious what little little baby Deanna 253 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:37,560 was thinking when you were treated so differently than your 254 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:42,360 two youngest siblings without knowing that you were adopted at 255 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:44,280 the forefront of your mind. That must have been very 256 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:46,840 confusing. Did you wonder like, why am I 257 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:48,440 treated this way and they're not? 258 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:52,600 Absolutely. It was awful because when I 259 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,920 still remember the day that they told us that they were expecting 260 00:15:56,640 --> 00:16:00,400 and I was excited, was gonna have another little sibling and 261 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:03,560 they were excited. And and I should say too, that 262 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:06,640 my stepmom was not the happiest person. 263 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:09,040 I think she had her own things going on. 264 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:12,200 She was depressed. She ended up not working. 265 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:14,720 She worked for like the first year that my parents were 266 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:16,920 married. I just think she had her own 267 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:19,760 things. And so this was suddenly like 268 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,720 she was somewhat happy again and maybe had something to look 269 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:24,440 forward to and I couldn't figure out. 270 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:28,480 I mean, I knew that that was a happy thing in life, right? 271 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:31,400 But like, it seemed to be this big deal. 272 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:33,880 And I'm thinking like, well, you have two kids. 273 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:36,720 It's, you know, like, of course life is precious no matter how 274 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:39,960 many children you have. And so of course then it all 275 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:42,960 made sense once, once this all came back around. 276 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:46,600 And do you remember the conversation of going home and 277 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:50,640 saying this, kids picking on us, talking about my mom and he 278 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:52,720 knows who I am? What did they say? 279 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:56,600 How did that conversation go? They actually asked me first, 280 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,680 well, do you know what he's talking about? 281 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:03,120 And I was like, no, I, I don't, that's why I'm telling you I 282 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:04,440 don't know what he's talking about. 283 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:08,359 They said, well, do you remember anything from your early 284 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:10,839 childhood? And of course, I did have some 285 00:17:10,839 --> 00:17:14,119 memories, but I was too afraid to say anything because I, I 286 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:15,760 didn't know if they were real or not. 287 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:20,280 So they tried to get me to speak first and try to like, pry it 288 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:23,599 out of me almost. And I just kind of sat there 289 00:17:23,599 --> 00:17:27,520 like, no, I, I don't know. They did eventually say, well, 290 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:31,000 Tammy's not your biological mother, you know, and this is 291 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,320 what happened. And, and the story that I was 292 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:35,920 given was that your mother was an alcoholic. 293 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:38,400 She didn't love you. She didn't want you. 294 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:41,760 You're better off without her. You don't need her. 295 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:44,800 Your life would be so much worse if she were involved. 296 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:48,560 Those types of things. That was the story that my 297 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:52,200 brother and I were both told. What was your reaction to all of 298 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:56,480 that information? So that was hard and I carried 299 00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:00,480 that with me throughout life. I think after that conversation, 300 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,920 I really just didn't want to go back there again. 301 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:08,240 They said if you have questions, you can ask us, but we didn't 302 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:11,120 have that kind of relationship. So even though they did say 303 00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:15,520 that, I never felt comfortable enough to ask them questions 304 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:18,920 about her or nor did I want to bring it up because I just 305 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:22,720 didn't want to be told those things that I was told, you 306 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:25,400 know. So life goes on now. 307 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:29,480 I have two younger sisters and they were about four years 308 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:31,440 apart. My brother and I were very much 309 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:35,320 the adults in the house. I mean, we, we did the cleaning, 310 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:39,200 we did laundry, we took care of the babies, we changed diapers, 311 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:42,400 we fed them, you know, and of course, you know, there's 312 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:44,080 nothing wrong with siblings helping out. 313 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:48,080 But neither of my parents were mentally stable or physically 314 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,360 stable. There was a lot of chaos all the 315 00:18:50,360 --> 00:18:53,320 time. And so we grew up really fast. 316 00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:57,160 And then on top of that, the abuse only got worse once they 317 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:01,000 were born because once they were around, it was just like, we 318 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:04,160 were shunned. We were treated so differently 319 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:07,720 and everyone noticed. I mean, my entire family noticed 320 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:10,240 to the point where they would stick up for us. 321 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:13,440 And it actually caused a huge divide in the family for a long 322 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:15,320 time. My dad didn't speak to his 323 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:19,880 parents for many, many years because they stood up for us and 324 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:24,800 it we weren't even telling anyone that we felt, you know, a 325 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:27,080 certain way. They observed it and witnessed 326 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:30,680 it themselves first hand. But you couldn't tell my dad 327 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,720 anything. You know, he it was his way or 328 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:36,560 the highway. And so the second anyone stood 329 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:40,320 up for us, then we were disrespecting his wife and he 330 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:42,960 was not going to have that. Things proceeded to get worse 331 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:47,040 because my brother is back to our childhood and and being left 332 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:50,040 at home alone as an infant and a toddler. 333 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:56,400 I'm not a doctor obviously, but I think my brother had some sort 334 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,080 of. I don't know if it was a 335 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:01,240 connection issue or an attachment. 336 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:02,920 I guess is what I'm. Trying to get an attachment. 337 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:06,840 Yes, we could tell at a young age that he was struggling. 338 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,720 I still to this day don't know that he's ever been like 339 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:13,600 properly diagnosed. But he definitely had a hard 340 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:15,680 time. He got the brunt of the physical 341 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:17,920 abuse. I mean I got it too, but they 342 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:22,440 were way harder on him and had way less patience with him. 343 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:27,320 They sent him to multiple institutions like mental health 344 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:30,000 institutions, group home type settings. 345 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:34,760 He bounced around starting when he was about 12 and with him out 346 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:38,040 of the house and that means things were put even more on me. 347 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:43,640 Then things got worse for me. So when I was 15, where I was a 348 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:47,840 freshman, there was an opportunity to go to boarding 349 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:50,640 school. A local businessman had started 350 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:53,840 a scholarship foundation, So I saw that as a chance for me to 351 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:56,600 get out of the house. And so I applied. 352 00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:00,480 I ended up getting a scholarship to go to boarding school. 353 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:05,600 So I left the house, which was probably the best decision I've 354 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,920 ever made because that was the first time that I really 355 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:13,520 realized how bad our situation was because that was the norm 356 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:16,960 for us. And we weren't allowed to see 357 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,680 friends outside of, you know, we never could have friends over. 358 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:23,640 We never went to friends houses. We were just, we went to school, 359 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:26,480 we were allowed to play sports, but we that was it. 360 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,960 We came home and we did all of these chores and did our 361 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:31,640 homework and like that was our life. 362 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:36,280 Wow, so you really saved yourself when you saw that 363 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:38,240 opportunity. Yes. 364 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,440 And what was that experience like of being in boarding 365 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:45,280 school? It was a wild experience, but I 366 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:46,800 I wouldn't change it for the world. 367 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:48,440 Like I said it, you said it best. 368 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,600 It saved me. And during that time, my 369 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,920 relationship with them was, it was already strained, right? 370 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,800 But now I'm, I have this like newfound freedom. 371 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:01,760 I'm away from their grips. I would call them once in a blue 372 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:05,120 moon and I always got the devil for that because I I wasn't 373 00:22:05,120 --> 00:22:07,320 calling enough. Anytime I talk to them, it was 374 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:12,040 just, I would just hear all the things that I wasn't doing right 375 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:14,400 or all the things that my brother wasn't doing right. 376 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,360 It was never like, hey, how are you? 377 00:22:16,360 --> 00:22:18,680 We miss you, can't wait to see you. 378 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,200 It was nothing like that. I never wanted to call them. 379 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:23,800 I I did it just enough to say that I did it. 380 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:28,040 I really started to distance myself as much as I could and I 381 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:30,520 had to go home for the major holidays, Thanksgiving, 382 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:33,080 Christmas, spring break and summertime, and that was pretty 383 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:36,360 much it. During this time as well, my 384 00:22:36,360 --> 00:22:39,520 brother had been bouncing around also from home to home. 385 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:43,200 They decided that they couldn't handle him anymore. 386 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:44,240 They didn't want to deal with him. 387 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:48,040 And so they turned him over to the state and he went into 388 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,880 foster care when he was, I believe 15. 389 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:55,920 So I'm away at boarding school. They give him up to foster care. 390 00:22:55,920 --> 00:23:00,000 So now it's just their, you know, 4 core and their family. 391 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:04,760 Wow, were you in contact with your brother at this time? 392 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:09,560 No, once he got put into foster care I did not have any contact 393 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:11,840 with him. I know my grandparents did from 394 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,760 time to time and it was very limited I think. 395 00:23:15,120 --> 00:23:17,680 I don't know if there were rules around it or if they just wanted 396 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:20,560 to be more respectful to his foster family. 397 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:25,320 I'm not honestly not sure but I would get updates through them 398 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,800 and I I think they got to see him a couple of times as well. 399 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:32,600 But as far as I know I think they were the only ones who got 400 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:34,520 to see him while he was in foster care. 401 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,680 I end up graduating from boarding school in 2006. 402 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:42,200 I moved back home that summer when I had turned 16. 403 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,440 Even though I was away, when I would come home, I had a job. 404 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:47,800 There was actually a mini Mart across the street from our 405 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:49,720 neighborhood. I wasn't allowed to have a car, 406 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,640 so I but I had to work when I was 16 because that was the 407 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,240 rule. And so I was able to walk across 408 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,720 the street to this good old country store where it was a gas 409 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:02,000 station, butcher shop, a convenience store. 410 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,160 So I started working there when I was 16 and I saw it as another 411 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,000 opportunity to like not be in the house. 412 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:11,000 So I worked as much as I could. So every break I was like sign 413 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:15,560 me up I will work all you need. When I moved back home was still 414 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:19,200 working there. I lasted about 3 weeks at home 415 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:23,360 after I graduated. I don't even know at this point 416 00:24:23,360 --> 00:24:26,040 what caused it. But there was an argument. 417 00:24:26,120 --> 00:24:30,400 Not uncommon but my dad said you're a teen, if you don't 418 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,920 respect me and your mother then you're not welcome to live here 419 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,480 anymore. And so he told me to pack my 420 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,720 bags and leave. The ironic thing is that when I 421 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:46,000 moved back home, my sisters had taken the two bedrooms so I 422 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,880 didn't have a bedroom. All my boxes from school were 423 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,680 still packed up. I was on the floor with. 424 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:55,120 I didn't even have a bed so I'm sleeping on the floor on a bunch 425 00:24:55,120 --> 00:24:57,720 of blankets and all my stuff was already packed up. 426 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:03,200 So it wasn't really that hard for me to like prepare to leave. 427 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,680 Now I'm home with. Thankfully, I had a friend who 428 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:11,520 was willing to help me out and I mostly stayed at her house. 429 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,640 I put all my stuff in storage and she helped me load up all my 430 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,920 boxes while my dad was at work. That was that. 431 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:24,440 So I left at some point, my grandparents said, well, you 432 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:28,160 need to go back because you need to make sure you get like your 433 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,160 birth certificate, your Social Security card, like these 434 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,600 documents that you're going to need as an adult on your own. 435 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:36,080 Things that I didn't think about. 436 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:40,440 And so I did go back. It was a weird conversation. 437 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:46,360 My dad was very calm and he never was, but he knew I was 438 00:25:46,360 --> 00:25:49,760 coming and he knew what for. So we we didn't really talk. 439 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:51,920 It was kind of a get your stuff and go. 440 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,360 But he made a comment. He said, I just want you to know 441 00:25:55,360 --> 00:25:59,720 that when I found out your mother was pregnant, I left. 442 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:08,200 But I thought about it and I came back and you just need to 443 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:14,120 know that. And at the time, I mean, I, I 444 00:26:14,120 --> 00:26:16,680 really thought like, what an asshole. 445 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:21,760 Like, how dare he put himself up on a pedestal for doing the 446 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:25,520 right thing, you know? Yeah. 447 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:32,600 I was pissed because I thought that he was saying like he saved 448 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:36,040 me and and he gets all the credit in the world and I'm 449 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,120 thinking, well, you're my father. 450 00:26:38,120 --> 00:26:39,360 That's what you're supposed to do. 451 00:26:39,360 --> 00:26:42,280 You weren't supposed to leave. Right, right. 452 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,280 So that comment, you know, I've never forgotten that. 453 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,960 But like everything else I I buried it pretty deep. 454 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:56,760 So the summer goes on and now I'm couch surfing mostly, 455 00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,800 staying with one friend, working and going to friends houses and 456 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,920 whatever. And I had enrolled in college 457 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,040 for the fall, so I knew it was going to be going off to 458 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:09,680 college. I go off to college and that's 459 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,720 when it really hit me. Like the gravity of what 460 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:17,640 happened that summer, because I just thought it was invincible. 461 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,280 I think, you know, I thought I don't. 462 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,400 I don't need my parents. I was never close with them 463 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:24,160 anyways. They didn't do much for me. 464 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:28,840 But then I'm moving into College in Allentown, PA. 465 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:33,160 I see all of these kids with their parents helping them move 466 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:37,440 in and moms are crying and they're giving hugs and here I 467 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,920 am like carrying everything in by myself. 468 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,800 I have no parents with me. I'm nobody. 469 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:49,000 That started like my downward spiral for me. 470 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:55,760 I still didn't address any of my issues really, but I started to 471 00:27:55,760 --> 00:28:00,840 drink a lot, partying. I had started dating a guy 472 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,360 actually in high school and we dated all through college, on 473 00:28:04,360 --> 00:28:07,040 and off. But he was a drug addict, just 474 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:11,160 making poor choices left and right and not in good 475 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,240 relationships. I didn't have the self worth, 476 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,080 the self respect. I just didn't care about myself. 477 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:21,600 I heard a lot of people along the way managed to graduate 478 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:26,600 college, but those were not my best years, that is for sure. 479 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:32,240 But the summer before I went to college, I was working at this 480 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:37,160 mini Mart and it was right off of the Pennsylvania Turnpike. 481 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,600 And so we were actually pretty busy. 482 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,200 We're off the beaten path, but pretty busy little store. 483 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,000 The way it worked is when you would come in, you would that we 484 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,040 have these like little slips. You would just kind of check off 485 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:48,560 what you want, like made to order. 486 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:50,880 And this is before there were like kiosks and things, you 487 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:52,880 know. And so you fill it out, put your 488 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,240 name at the top, hand it over to us in the window and we would 489 00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,200 make your food. I was behind the counter and I 490 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:03,000 get a slip and I happened to notice the name on the slip one 491 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,200 day. The last name was my mother's 492 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,960 maiden name. So I make his food and I'm, I'm 493 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,600 like, what do I do? And I'm just contemplating to 494 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:14,640 myself, should I say something? Should I not? 495 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:16,480 And I thought, well, what do I have to lose? 496 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:18,720 I just got kicked out of my house. 497 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:22,320 I have no family, you know, And so I mean, I had family, but no, 498 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:26,160 I, my parents, my grandparents were very much so big part of my 499 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,640 life and my aunts and uncles and cousins and everyone as well. 500 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,080 Just to clarify, but. But those were not people that 501 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,680 you could go stay with, for example. 502 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:39,320 Right. And my, my grandmother, I was 503 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:41,680 very close with my whole life. I still am to this day. 504 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:46,240 But she had just had quadruple bypass surgery right after I 505 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,200 graduated. And so I knew that they would 506 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,480 have, let me say with him in a heartbeat. 507 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,240 I have no doubt about that. But I did not want to put that 508 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,000 on them knowing what she had just been through. 509 00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:58,160 I didn't even tell them right away. 510 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,880 I think probably at least a month had gone by before I even 511 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:02,640 told them what happened. They had no idea. 512 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:08,600 I see the last name and I decide I'm going to say something. 513 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:15,880 So I'm checking this man out and I say, by any chance do you know 514 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:19,240 Dia? And he goes, yeah, that's my 515 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:23,360 aunt. And I said, I think that makes 516 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,920 his cousins then. And he looks at me and he goes, 517 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,800 Deanna, is that you? And I just started to cry. 518 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,360 And he's like, holy shit, I haven't seen you since you were, 519 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,120 you know, this big. And he's, like, pointing down at 520 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,760 the ground. So it turns out that that was, 521 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:44,600 in fact, my cousin. And we exchanged phone numbers 522 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,840 and he said, you know, call me when you get off of work. 523 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:53,200 I'm going to call your mom and we can arrange to meet her. 524 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,360 And so I got off of work. I called him. 525 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,720 He picked me up and took me out to meet my mom and my aunt, his 526 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:03,720 mom. It was a lot of tears, a lot of 527 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:05,240 tears. I was crying. 528 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,360 My aunt was crying, my mom was crying. 529 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:12,160 Just a lot of crying. It went OK, It wasn't bad. 530 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:16,120 It was, I, I think it was just shocked, you know, more than 531 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:20,960 anything, I was so young to really understand the gravity of 532 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,800 all of it. You know, I spent, I don't know, 533 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:28,200 probably a few hours at her house and just talking and we 534 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,600 didn't get into anything really deep that night. 535 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:34,640 It was more like, oh, we have the same toes, just kind of very 536 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,320 surface level things. And I kind of told her about me 537 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:42,920 going away to school and, and just catching up, you know, on 538 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:44,520 surface level things, I feel like. 539 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:48,560 But we did exchange numbers and we did keep in touch for a 540 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:50,960 little while. Probably about halfway through 541 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,000 my freshman year, we stopped talking. 542 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:57,880 That wasn't fully her fault. I think it was both of us. 543 00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,560 It was, it was a lot. It was just a lot. 544 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,720 And I, I personally was not prepared for that. 545 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:08,240 It all happened so fast and I think just with everything else 546 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,400 that was already going on, I just couldn't handle it to be 547 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,400 completely honest. So we kind of lost touch. 548 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,200 And then about a year, year and a half later she called my 549 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:22,200 grandparents house and let them know that she was thinking about 550 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,760 me. And she said, will you let her 551 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,600 know that I called? If she wants to get in touch 552 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:29,520 again, let her know that she can call me. 553 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:33,440 We got back in touch again. And I do want to mention too, 554 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:38,040 that it was very evident very quickly that she was an 555 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,800 alcoholic still. So that that was one thing that 556 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:42,960 I was like, OK, that is confirmed. 557 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:47,160 But we got back in touch and we did eventually talk about some 558 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:49,680 more deeper things. I told her a lot of the stuff 559 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,560 that I had gone through. I learned some things about her 560 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:56,440 and about her and my dad and, you know, things that I didn't 561 00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,080 know before. Did not think to ask about 562 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:03,240 medical history that never once crossed my mind at 1819 years 563 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,320 old. But right, well, we're healthy. 564 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:07,880 Like you said, we're invincible right at that age. 565 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:11,760 Yeah, yeah, yeah. It lasted for probably another, 566 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:13,960 I don't know, maybe a year on and off. 567 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,600 But we weren't like calling each other every single day. 568 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:20,920 It was, you know, every month or two months we would call, check 569 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:22,760 in. I visit her a couple times. 570 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,040 My brother ended up coming as well one of the time. 571 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:28,880 So he eventually he didn't right away. 572 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:30,520 He didn't want to jump into that. 573 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:33,440 But eventually he ended up meeting her. 574 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:36,400 Also. She had wanted to have us over 575 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:40,120 for Thanksgiving and I don't know what was going on in her 576 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:45,160 life, but I could just tell by her voice when she was telling 577 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,360 us that she was going to have us over for Thanksgiving. 578 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:49,720 I just had this feeling that it wasn't going to happen. 579 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:54,400 So she knew I was coming home from school for Thanksgiving. 580 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:57,280 This is probably a couple months in advance. 581 00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:00,120 We had talked about having dinner together. 582 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:04,520 She knew when I was coming home, she was to call and and make 583 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,560 those arrangements. Well, Thanksgiving came and went 584 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:09,400 and I had never heard from her again. 585 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:14,159 But that point I was like, OK, she's had multiple chances. 586 00:34:14,679 --> 00:34:17,800 I know the first time around we weren't prepared, both of us, 587 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:22,080 but we talked about that before we kind of dove in again. 588 00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,040 We both address like, hey, that was just a lot. 589 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,280 We weren't prepared for that. It kind of sprung on us. 590 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:30,760 But we're ready, like we'll try this again. 591 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:32,920 So I thought, OK, we'll give it another go. 592 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:37,159 And you know, having put that out there, I thought it felt 593 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:41,719 safe to try again. But when that happened, I was 594 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:45,080 like, OK, I'm, I'm not going to put myself through this another 595 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:46,080 time. I just can't. 596 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,960 So I let it go. So that was pretty much how my 597 00:34:50,159 --> 00:34:52,840 reunion with my biological mother went was. 598 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:56,080 OK. Very much like my childhood. 599 00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:02,080 How long from that point did it go before you spoke to her 600 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:04,320 again, or did you? I didn't. 601 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:06,560 Yeah, that was. That was. 602 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:08,160 The last time you talked to your mom? 603 00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:11,440 Yes, through all of this, you know I've gotten kicked out of 604 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:15,360 my house. I've reunited with my mother, 605 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,160 which to me felt like the first time ever meeting her because I 606 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,000 had that one single memory of her. 607 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:25,360 This was all happening through college and I'm off at college 608 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:30,200 by myself away from home. I have a drug addict boyfriend, 609 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,640 so many things happening all at once. 610 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:38,200 And I transferred, started out College in Allentown, PA in my 611 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:40,400 freshman year and then I transferred to Cincinnati and I 612 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:42,280 I went to Xavier. So that's where I graduated 613 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,080 from. I managed to graduate, had 614 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:47,840 decent grades. Somehow after I graduated, I 615 00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:52,320 ended up staying in Cincinnati. When I graduated, it was during 616 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,600 the the. Great Recession. 617 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:57,480 Yes, thank you. Do you have during the 618 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:01,440 recession? I graduated and so I couldn't 619 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,440 find a job right away. So I ended up bartending for a 620 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:08,720 couple of years and that's where I'm at my now husband. 621 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,560 Life went on, I guess, and and during this all of this, I'm 622 00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:16,640 thinking that I'm fine. I'm just trying to find a job, 623 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:18,480 but you know, I'm off of my own. I'm. 624 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:23,440 Are you speaking to your father or adopted or your stepmother at 625 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:27,640 all during this time? No, I mean once I got kicked 626 00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:32,360 out, I went back that one time to get my documents and I think 627 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:36,680 he called me one time. We had no relationship at all. 628 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:40,080 We didn't talk for years and years, probably a decade or 629 00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:42,680 more. But I did maintain contact with 630 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:45,600 the rest of my family, my aunts, my uncles, my cousins. 631 00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:49,360 My brother and I aren't super close, but when I go home I 632 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:51,600 would usually see him and my family and stuff and my 633 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:53,560 grandparents just not not either of them. 634 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:59,240 So I'm you know what, my early 20s just life, my husband and I 635 00:36:59,240 --> 00:37:01,520 get married right before I turn 30. 636 00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:07,600 So, you know, six years ago and then in 2018, I got pregnant for 637 00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:13,320 the first time with my daughter. It never really occurred to me. 638 00:37:13,720 --> 00:37:16,400 Like I said, I'd never thought to ask my mom about medical 639 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:20,600 history and on my anytime I went to the doctor, which I never, I 640 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:23,200 didn't really go to the doctor that much one, I was pretty 641 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,720 healthy, but also like it didn't really have insurance and stuff 642 00:37:26,720 --> 00:37:28,720 before until I entered the corporate world. 643 00:37:28,720 --> 00:37:32,960 But when I did, I would never put any medical information on 644 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,920 my mother's side. I just put what I knew and that 645 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:37,880 was it. But I never brought it up. 646 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,120 I never told any doctors. You know, I don't I'm missing 647 00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:44,560 half of my medical history. I just never, I think I had a 648 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:46,720 lot of shame and embarrassment, honestly. 649 00:37:46,720 --> 00:37:51,320 I didn't talk about my childhood situation like my friends 650 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:54,960 growing up, they didn't know that I had been adopted by my 651 00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:56,360 stepmother. They just thought that that was 652 00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:58,080 my mom. I never talked about it to 653 00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:00,640 anyone. So it wasn't until I was 654 00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:05,840 pregnant and my doctor was asking, you know, just normal 655 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,440 questions. I think like, well, how did your 656 00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,120 mother give, you know, did you have C-section? 657 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:14,160 Was it a natural birth? But and I was like, oh, I don't 658 00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:15,400 know. I have no idea. 659 00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:19,240 I never thought about that aspect of it either. 660 00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:25,760 And so I saw an ad or something for Ancestry DNA, for the health 661 00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:27,640 traits. That is what piqued my interest 662 00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,600 was the health traits. And I think I was just naive to 663 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,480 even know what that meant. I knew it wouldn't be able to 664 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:36,800 diagnose me with anything, but I thought, Oh well, maybe this 665 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,680 will give me some sort of insight that I, I don't know. 666 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:44,080 So that's what prompted me to take ADNA test. 667 00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:49,640 And this was in 2019. And at the time one of my 668 00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:52,560 cousins, Jenny, was living with me. 669 00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:55,800 She's an occupational therapist and she was in her master's 670 00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:57,960 program and she had to do like a clinical. 671 00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:00,960 So she got assigned to a hospital out here in Cincinnati. 672 00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:04,360 So she lived with us for a few months while I was pregnant. 673 00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:07,840 And I had mentioned to her like, hey, I ordered some DNA tests 674 00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:11,200 because I ordered one for me and I actually ordered 2 for my 675 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:13,560 grandparents that I was going to gifts to them. 676 00:39:14,240 --> 00:39:16,520 Never ended up doing that, thank God. 677 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:19,760 But I mentioned to her, maybe you should take one too and we 678 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:21,880 can kind of start this like whole family thing. 679 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:25,800 And she kind of laughed and was like, I would never willingly 680 00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:29,640 give my DNA to the government. And I was like, oh, OK. 681 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:32,480 You know, I thought it was kind of a weird thing to say, but I. 682 00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:34,280 Yeah. But there's a lot of that, Yeah. 683 00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:38,280 There's a lot of that kind of anxiety around uploading our 684 00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:41,200 information and some somewhat justified, right? 685 00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,800 But yeah, it's not necessarily something that we're thinking 686 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:44,600 about. Yeah. 687 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,600 But you know, I, I'm a firm believer that everything happens 688 00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:52,760 for a reason. And even though I at the time 689 00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:55,520 genuinely was like, that's so weird. 690 00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:58,800 Why wouldn't she do that? I'm so thankful that she didn't 691 00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:02,840 do it because I know now that I would not have been able to 692 00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:06,280 handle, you know, all of the things that are about to unfold 693 00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:08,720 if if that had happened then. So. 694 00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:12,760 I took the DNA test in 2019, also gave birth to my daughter 695 00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,120 in 2019. I got the results back and I 696 00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:19,360 remember thinking, wow, that's, that's really weird. 697 00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:22,680 I glanced at my matches, but I didn't really care about the 698 00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:25,040 matches a whole lot. That's not why I took it. 699 00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:29,200 But I did look at them and I, I didn't know any names on there. 700 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,280 But again, I wasn't super surprised because when I 701 00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:36,800 reconnected with my mother, I had met my aunt and uncle, a few 702 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:42,640 of my cousins, but I really only knew like her mom's name her. 703 00:40:42,720 --> 00:40:45,000 She had a brother and a sister and I knew their kids names and 704 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:48,120 that was about it. So I was like, you know, these 705 00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:50,480 are all probably distant relatives. 706 00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:52,720 I'm not surprised that I don't know any names. 707 00:40:52,720 --> 00:40:56,120 Not a big deal. But there was one match. 708 00:40:56,120 --> 00:41:02,560 I had one first cousin and that bothered me because I, I didn't 709 00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:06,000 know who it was. And I was thinking like, well, 710 00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:09,360 my mom told me she had one brother and one sister and I 711 00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:11,800 know their kids names, my cousins. 712 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,400 And it's not, it was not any of those names. 713 00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:18,800 So I did think it was weird, but I was like, you know, her father 714 00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:21,440 passed away when she was young. Who knows what could have 715 00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:23,400 happened. Maybe she has a, a sibling out 716 00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:24,560 there that she doesn't know about. 717 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:27,800 I just chalked it up to like being something on her side of 718 00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:31,160 the family because I didn't know a lot of a lot of their history 719 00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:34,840 and names and things. So I didn't really think a whole 720 00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,360 lot of it. But the whole first cousin 721 00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:41,120 thing, I think was just on the back of my mind and it it was 722 00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:43,520 always there. After I had my first daughter, 723 00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:45,400 five months later, I was pregnant again. 724 00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:50,680 And then the pandemic hit. So like I said, it was always in 725 00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:54,400 the back of my mind, but not something that I really had the 726 00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:56,920 time or energy to even think about. 727 00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:59,800 So I kind of shut it off. You know, occasionally I would 728 00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:01,680 go back in and look at my results. 729 00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:05,520 And then in 2021, I was diagnosed with PCOS, and that 730 00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:06,800 prompted me to look at the health. 731 00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:09,480 I started reading into the stuff again and started getting a 732 00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:13,000 little more into it, but again, just kind of let the whole 733 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:16,360 matches go. But I realized when I first 734 00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:22,800 taken the test, it had said that I was about 33% Greek and I did 735 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,880 not know that I had any Greek in me. 736 00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:30,440 I knew that my grandparents, my paternal grandparents were 737 00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:33,720 German, mostly German and a little bit of Irish. 738 00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:38,160 I did ask my mother this. That is one thing that I did ask 739 00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:40,600 was, you know, what is our lineage, What is our background? 740 00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:43,960 And she told me Indian and Italian. 741 00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,640 And I was like, I don't think she knew what she was talking 742 00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:49,880 about. And I will say this, she didn't 743 00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:52,800 because she's not any of those either. 744 00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:58,560 But I thought, OK, maybe that has to be where this Greek comes 745 00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:03,480 from. But as you probably know, 20/19 746 00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:05,120 was still pretty early on, right? 747 00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:09,040 And so my percentage kept increasing. 748 00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:11,800 So I, you know, I would go back and look every five or 6-7 749 00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:16,160 months and suddenly I'm now like 50% Greek. 750 00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:22,080 So I, I was like, OK, something's not, something's not 751 00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:23,800 right. So I started asking my 752 00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,360 grandparents questions and I was like, you know, just just 753 00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:29,960 checking like, is there any Greek anywhere in our family 754 00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:31,960 line? You know, they're like, no, no, 755 00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:35,040 we're definitely very German. And they both my grandmother's 756 00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:37,440 maiden name and my grandfather, both very German. 757 00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:40,680 So I was like, OK, well, I didn't think so, but just 758 00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,440 checking. And then I was asking about this 759 00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:45,120 first cousin. I said, well, I have this first 760 00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:47,160 cousin match. I'm pretty sure it's on my mom's 761 00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:48,960 side of the family. That would make sense. 762 00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:53,560 But do you know this last name? Because that her last name 763 00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:57,680 popped up many like I have many matches with the same last name 764 00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:00,720 and they're like, no, we we don't know anyone, anyone 765 00:44:00,720 --> 00:44:03,280 without last name in our family or extended family. 766 00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:07,400 I'm like, OK, but I'm starting to piece together that, you 767 00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:10,720 know, this first cousin is not Greek. 768 00:44:11,240 --> 00:44:14,800 So, you know, to me I'm like, I can only be, you know, 769 00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:20,280 something's off. This is end of 2021 and 2022. 770 00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:25,800 I lost a friend to suicide. Something about that just made 771 00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:29,440 me think about life in a whole different way. 772 00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:35,320 And I, I spent many nights, late nights up with friends talking 773 00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:39,680 about life and getting into these really deep conversations 774 00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:41,960 because of, you know, what had happened to our friend. 775 00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:48,680 And I remember one particular night before the funeral, we 776 00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:51,680 were up and talking and just talking about life. 777 00:44:51,720 --> 00:44:56,000 And I said out of nowhere to one of my friends, I was like, I 778 00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:58,560 think my dad isn't actually my dad. 779 00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:02,520 And she was like, what? This was the first time. 780 00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:04,680 Like I surprised myself when I said it. 781 00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:07,840 OK, so this I was going to say, was this something that had been 782 00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:11,520 in the back of your mind or it just came to you? 783 00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:15,360 I think I knew that something wasn't right between, you know, 784 00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:20,400 I've got this first cousin who nobody knows who this is, but 785 00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:22,320 she's also not Greek and I'm half Greek. 786 00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:26,640 How does that match up? But I had never said it out 787 00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:28,240 loud. I think I had. 788 00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:31,080 I would like the unthought known. 789 00:45:31,720 --> 00:45:34,840 I think it was one of those like, and I kind of shocked 790 00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:37,160 myself when I said it. And I, I shared my results with 791 00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:38,680 her. Like we, I got my phone out and, 792 00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:41,640 and she was like, Oh my gosh, like, you're right. 793 00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:44,640 I don't know. We end up, you know, a few weeks 794 00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:47,520 past, we go to the funeral and then on the way home from the 795 00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:50,560 funeral, again, I'm, I'm with a different friend now. 796 00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:54,680 We were just kind of talking about how heavy that whole 797 00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:57,920 situation was. And again, getting to these 798 00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:02,600 really deep conversations about life and my friend proceeds to 799 00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:08,080 tell me a secret of hers that she had been keeping Alexis. 800 00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:12,160 It blew my mind. I was bawling my eyes out just 801 00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:16,880 again, I one of those moments where I'm like, life is just so 802 00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:22,280 crazy. And we're talking and she says I 803 00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:26,880 listen to this podcast because it makes me feel better about my 804 00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:30,680 secret. And so she mentions Danny's 805 00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:34,280 podcast Family Secrets and I promise this is relevant. 806 00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:38,040 So she mentions this podcast and I'm like wow for. 807 00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:41,640 For anyone who's listening who doesn't know, it's Danny Shapiro 808 00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:44,560 who's like kind of at the forefront of a lot of these 809 00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:46,640 conversations. Yes. 810 00:46:47,240 --> 00:46:49,520 She has a podcast called Family Secrets. 811 00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:53,040 Yes, and this is the first time that I had ever heard about it. 812 00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:58,080 And so we get back and I start listening to her podcast, 813 00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:01,640 something about, you know, I just lost a friend. 814 00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:06,040 I said something out loud that I shocked myself when those words 815 00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:08,600 came out of my mouth. And now I'm listening to this 816 00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:11,280 podcast where I'm hearing stories like I've never heard 817 00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:13,560 before. And I think that just kind of 818 00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:18,600 lit a fire in me to get to the bottom of this. 819 00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:21,240 It was a mystery to me at this point, right? 820 00:47:21,240 --> 00:47:24,320 My my results didn't make any sense. 821 00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:29,920 I decide, well, a couple things. One, I'm like, OK, I I need to 822 00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:32,440 take another test. So I take an ancestry. 823 00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:36,200 So I decided that I was going to take 23andMe because I still was 824 00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:39,160 like, maybe this isn't right. Like I literally didn't know a 825 00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:42,040 single match. I didn't know a single name. 826 00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:44,840 And the more I thought about that, I was like that, that is 827 00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:47,480 kind of weird. You would think you would know 828 00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:50,800 second cousin maybe or you know something. 829 00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:54,480 And I knew some names of my mother's family, right? 830 00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:59,280 Like, and I knew their last name and that last name didn't appear 831 00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:01,600 anywhere. So I'm just like, maybe these 832 00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:04,200 results aren't right. Maybe this isn't really mine. 833 00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:06,520 That would make sense. And I think a lot of people have 834 00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:09,720 that same thought, right. So I decide, OK, well, I'm going 835 00:48:09,720 --> 00:48:12,720 to take 23andMe, but I'm going to do a little more research. 836 00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:17,200 So I subscribe to Ancestry, like the I joined Ancestry and you 837 00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:20,160 have access to like the newspapers and yadda yadda. 838 00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:23,440 So I start researching this cousin. 839 00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:26,800 I couldn't find anything but in my head I'm like well maybe my 840 00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:30,760 aunt or uncle has a child out there that like they gave up for 841 00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:33,200 adoption and they didn't tell anyone. 842 00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:36,880 Or maybe I am coming up with all these scenarios just to try to 843 00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:41,080 explain this away. And I ended up finding their 844 00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:43,560 marriage record and their divorce record. 845 00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:48,360 I researched his ex wife's name and you know, ruled all of that 846 00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:49,800 out. Like I'm doing all of these 847 00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:53,120 things and I'm like, I'm still like this, this isn't making 848 00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:55,680 sense. I get the guts to call my cousin 849 00:48:55,680 --> 00:49:00,280 who this will be my father's brother's son. 850 00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:04,080 I call him up and I say, look, I know this is going to sound 851 00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:06,560 crazy, but I really need your help. 852 00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:09,760 And I explained to him, I said, look, I, you know, I had taken 853 00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:13,760 ADNA test a few years ago and I've been trying to figure out 854 00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:17,240 these results and I can't. And I, I just need someone in 855 00:49:17,240 --> 00:49:20,600 our immediate family to take the test so I have a connection so I 856 00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:23,840 can see like where these other connections belong. 857 00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:28,240 And, and he was cool about it. I mean, he was so laid back. 858 00:49:28,240 --> 00:49:32,800 And I should mention too, this is Jenny's brother, so and one 859 00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:35,880 how I said you should take this test and she was like no. 860 00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:37,760 And he was like, sure, I'll do it, I don't care. 861 00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:40,280 He'll put that DNA out there, yeah. 862 00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:42,600 Put it out there. Yeah. 863 00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:45,880 So I didn't ask her because I, you know, already went down that 864 00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:47,400 road. I didn't ask my brother because 865 00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:51,040 I not super close with him. So John says sure. 866 00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:56,560 So I sent him a kit. I had already sent in my thing 867 00:49:56,560 --> 00:50:00,240 to 23 me. My cousin had already sent in 868 00:50:00,240 --> 00:50:04,880 his while we're waiting, Ancestry was coming out with all 869 00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:08,960 of these new features and things to where suddenly they could 870 00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:13,080 tell you what side your matches are on and what's, what 871 00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:17,560 inheritance you got from which side of the family that all came 872 00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:19,560 out. Like I, I want to say it was 873 00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:23,760 like a week after I got my results, which was so madding to 874 00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:27,440 me, Alexis, because I'd gone through all of this and then it 875 00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:29,960 was like, oh, here you go. Here's the answers you've been 876 00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:31,120 looking for. Yeah. 877 00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:35,760 My cousin called me. It's Friday, August 19th of 878 00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:39,280 2022. And he said, hey, I just got my 879 00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:41,640 results and he's like, I'm looking at him right now. 880 00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:43,920 He's like, I think everything looks fine. 881 00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:46,920 Like I, I see my mom's side of the family on here. 882 00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:51,360 I've got and he starts rattling off my dad and his dad's last 883 00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:53,880 name. And he's saying like I see some 884 00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:58,000 matches there and I'm like, oh, do you see my name? 885 00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:01,400 And he is like, where would I find that? 886 00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:04,480 And I was like, if you're seeing other matches, you would you 887 00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:06,560 would see me like under your first cousin. 888 00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:10,440 He's like, no, I did not get a notification. 889 00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:13,760 So I didn't know until he called me to tell me he got his 890 00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:15,680 results. I didn't get an e-mail or you 891 00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:18,480 know, anything like that. So I'm not looking at my results 892 00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:22,640 in in real time while he's looking at his, but I'm trying 893 00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:24,360 to pull him up as I'm talking to him. 894 00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:30,880 And that's when I realized like, OK, so it's true. 895 00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:36,520 Everything that I went through, all of this, and he wasn't even 896 00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:38,640 my biological father this entire time. 897 00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:47,520 I'm so sorry, was that the first thought that you had about it? 898 00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:53,400 That was my first thought, John said. 899 00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:56,480 To me. He was like, you will always be 900 00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:58,640 my cousin no matter what he said. 901 00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:00,640 And it was in the most genuine way. 902 00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:02,560 It wasn't like, oh, your dad's always your dad. 903 00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:07,440 He, he was very meaningful when he said to me, like he actually 904 00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:08,920 said, you're stuck with me for life. 905 00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:11,960 He was very sweet about the whole situation. 906 00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:18,680 But we hung up the phone and I, I literally fell to the ground. 907 00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:23,200 I had a very, very physical reaction, of course, bawling my 908 00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:31,960 eyes out and shaking even though I I kind of knew it's still. 909 00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:37,160 It was so shocking. What did you do next? 910 00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:39,400 Did you did you call your husband? 911 00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:42,760 I completely like lost all track of time. 912 00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:47,520 He called me in the morning. I did eventually call my 913 00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:49,640 husband. He was the first person that the 914 00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:52,640 only person that I called. I remember dropping to the 915 00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:56,920 ground on the dining room floor and when my husband came home 916 00:52:56,920 --> 00:52:59,240 from work, I was in the dining room. 917 00:52:59,240 --> 00:53:02,640 I hadn't moved all day. I mean, I just, I, I stayed 918 00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:06,960 there and cried like all day. I have no idea how long. 919 00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:11,640 I don't know exactly what time he called me, but it was like 920 00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:15,320 time stopped. And you know, all of the things 921 00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:20,040 that I had been through, I never had a reaction like that. 922 00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:24,360 What do you think it was? I think it was a combination of 923 00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:28,800 and everything like it was like my life was flashing before me 924 00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:32,000 and all of these horrible memories were flooding back. 925 00:53:32,720 --> 00:53:35,920 And I'm like, why? Why did I have to go through all 926 00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:40,000 of that? Because there's I could talk for 927 00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:44,120 days about all of the horrible things we went through. 928 00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:47,920 I mean, I, I just touched the surface and then the comment 929 00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:52,680 when he said I left her and I came back, that suddenly was 930 00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:54,840 like, is this what he was trying to tell me? 931 00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:00,080 Was it right in front of me the entire time? 932 00:54:01,240 --> 00:54:03,920 So then I, I felt, I almost felt dumb. 933 00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:08,880 I was angry, I was sad, I was shocked. 934 00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:12,480 I was, you know, I just felt everything. 935 00:54:13,240 --> 00:54:16,520 All of the times where me and my brother were treated so 936 00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:19,520 horribly, but yet the two girls were not. 937 00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:22,400 You know, suddenly everything made so much sense, but it was 938 00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:27,840 just so wrong. Do you think that your dad knew? 939 00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:32,800 I thought for sure, Alexis, that he did. 940 00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:38,600 I was convinced that that comment was almost him trying to 941 00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:41,040 tell me without telling me directly. 942 00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:44,480 And then I thought, well, they put my brother in foster care. 943 00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:48,080 I was pretty much out of the house when I was 15. 944 00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:51,600 And then he had no problem telling me to get out when I was 945 00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:53,440 18 and never talking to me again. 946 00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:58,040 So, you know, I was like, well, he just wanted to get rid of me 947 00:54:58,040 --> 00:55:00,720 because he knew I wasn't his. Like he had to have known. 948 00:55:01,240 --> 00:55:04,800 And I will tell you that I did end up calling him. 949 00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:07,040 It wasn't that day, wasn't even that month. 950 00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:11,800 It took me probably 6 or more weeks before I got the courage 951 00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:13,600 up to call him. Because mind you, this is the 952 00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:18,400 first time that I've called him in 15 plus years. 953 00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:21,280 But I thought, I don't have a relationship with him, but I 954 00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:24,400 think he deserves to know. Even if he already knows, he 955 00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:27,160 deserves to know that I know. So I did. 956 00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:33,400 And I fully expected him to one of two things, say, yeah, I knew 957 00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:36,760 it, leave us alone. Or I thought he might be angry 958 00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:39,360 that I like, blew his cover. I thought for sure he'd be 959 00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:41,000 angry. But that wasn't the case. 960 00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:44,880 I shouldn't say he wasn't angry. He didn't show any anger, but he 961 00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:47,360 wasn't angry at me. If he was angry, he was probably 962 00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:50,320 angry at my mother. But he didn't show any anger. 963 00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:54,560 He actually, when I called, he got dead silent. 964 00:55:54,560 --> 00:56:00,680 And Tammy was on the phone as well and she said, Deanna, just 965 00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:02,520 give him a minute. He doesn't know what to say 966 00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:04,960 right now. And I could hear him getting 967 00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:07,640 choked up. And he actually was crying. 968 00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:11,960 And this is a man who the only emotion I've ever seen from him 969 00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:15,680 was anger. We had been through so much, but 970 00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:18,320 now he's crying. And it didn't make any sense to 971 00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:20,360 me. I was so confused by his 972 00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:22,840 reaction. But he swears he didn't know. 973 00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:27,760 He says he had no idea. I mean, it's, it's like you can 974 00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:32,440 see both sides of it, right? Because he was so young that if 975 00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:35,200 he really suspected that you weren't his, it would have been 976 00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:40,800 a very easy out at that age. And you know, to take two kids 977 00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:43,320 and and move in. But at the same time, his 978 00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:47,200 treatment of you, it must just be so confusing to try to 979 00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:49,520 rationalize like what he was thinking. 980 00:56:49,520 --> 00:56:53,360 So confusing. I do think, I genuinely believe 981 00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:57,800 that he didn't know. I don't think it would be worth 982 00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:02,400 his energy at this point to try to, you know, cover it up or so 983 00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:05,440 I, I do genuinely believe that he didn't know. 984 00:57:06,120 --> 00:57:07,720 And I think it was his reaction, right? 985 00:57:07,720 --> 00:57:11,680 Like his, I mean, the silence went on for minutes. 986 00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:18,440 He was just completely shocked. So it was it, it was very 987 00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:21,600 confusing because I did not expect that at all. 988 00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:25,840 And Tammy was very, I don't want to say nonchalant that kind of 989 00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:30,160 like it was almost like, oh, this is great news. 990 00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:34,240 You know, that's that was her demeanor was like, Oh, well, 991 00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:36,680 it's OK. Yeah. 992 00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:40,640 Does he say anything else? Like how does that conversation 993 00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:43,000 end? I think the biggest question 994 00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:46,000 was, well, how? Like how did you find this out? 995 00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:50,080 So I explained to them me taking ADNA test and what prompted me 996 00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:52,840 to do that. And then their next question 997 00:57:52,840 --> 00:57:54,080 was, well, do you know who it is? 998 00:57:54,080 --> 00:57:55,800 And at this point in time, it did not know. 999 00:57:56,200 --> 00:58:00,240 So I, I told them that like, no, I, I don't know who it is. 1000 00:58:00,240 --> 00:58:04,000 I, I hope I can figure it out, but that's pretty much where we 1001 00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:05,080 left it. What? 1002 00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:08,240 Hey, I just wanted you to know, sorry, I don't have any other 1003 00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:11,440 information to give you at this point in time, but this is what 1004 00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:14,720 I do know. And that was pretty much where 1005 00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:16,880 we left it. Have you talked to them since? 1006 00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:20,800 I went home for Easter last year. 1007 00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:24,720 My entire family, like his side of the family, who I'm, you 1008 00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:28,160 know, they're still my family to me and vice versa. 1009 00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:31,960 The entire family went out for Easter dinner together. 1010 00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:37,000 So we did briefly talk but it was so awkward and, and it 1011 00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:40,120 always has been the the couple of times that I've seen him at 1012 00:58:40,120 --> 00:58:44,520 family holidays over the years, which they were very few and far 1013 00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:46,480 between. What happens next? 1014 00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:51,520 I assume that you were on a path to find who your biological 1015 00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:55,320 father was, but did you wait or did you immediately jump into 1016 00:58:55,360 --> 00:58:59,360 it? I immediately jumped in and I 1017 00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:02,240 will say I had no idea what I was doing. 1018 00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:06,360 So in fact, I started like through this subscription. 1019 00:59:06,360 --> 00:59:10,280 I knew just from Googling other names and stuff in this cousin 1020 00:59:10,280 --> 00:59:15,440 search, I realized that there were like yearbooks out there. 1021 00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:20,000 And so I had typed in, I think my mom's name. 1022 00:59:20,600 --> 00:59:25,440 And I went through the yearbook, the year where, where she was a 1023 00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:27,400 sophomore, the year that I was born essentially. 1024 00:59:28,240 --> 00:59:31,920 And I, I managed to find one of her yearbooks and I went through 1025 00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:35,640 the entire sophomore, junior and senior classes. 1026 00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:40,360 And I, I, this was my strategy. I was like, I'm just going to go 1027 00:59:40,360 --> 00:59:44,080 through and I'm going to look for Greek names, which to be 1028 00:59:44,320 --> 00:59:47,360 honest, Alexis, I didn't even really know what a Greek name 1029 00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:50,800 looked like. I had one name and it was, I had 1030 00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:54,360 a match to a second cousin. That was the only name I had to 1031 00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:57,840 go off of and then a couple other like very distant cousins. 1032 00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:00,720 So I was like, OK, well, I'll, I'll look for like this one name 1033 01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:04,320 that I know. Of course that name was not in 1034 01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:06,280 there at all. But that was my strategy. 1035 01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:09,280 I'm like, I'm going through this yearbook, anyone that my mom 1036 01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:13,320 could have had relations with, and I'm just writing down names 1037 01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:16,440 that are like. Different, I guess, you know, 1038 01:00:16,440 --> 01:00:18,600 not Smith or something that I don't know. 1039 01:00:18,600 --> 01:00:20,320 I, I really didn't know what I was doing. 1040 01:00:20,680 --> 01:00:22,680 And I go through the whole entire yearbook and I have a 1041 01:00:22,680 --> 01:00:26,040 total of five names and I'm looking at these names. 1042 01:00:26,040 --> 01:00:27,360 I don't know what I'm going to do with this. 1043 01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:29,000 Like I, I don't know what I'm thinking. 1044 01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:30,600 This isn't going to get me anywhere. 1045 01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:33,520 And then I ended up crossing off like two of the names anyways 1046 01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:36,600 because I realized like they're definitely, I think like one was 1047 01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:38,960 Italian. I don't even know what the other 1048 01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:40,880 one was, but I have, I have three names. 1049 01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:42,560 I'm like, well, what am I going to do with this? 1050 01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:44,920 So this strategy is not going to work. 1051 01:00:45,600 --> 01:00:48,480 And you know, I had mentioned Danny's podcast. 1052 01:00:48,520 --> 01:00:52,160 So I had been listening to that all, you know, over these 1053 01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:56,800 couple, couple of months. And one of her episodes was 1054 01:00:56,800 --> 01:01:00,560 actually about an NPE. And that was the first time that 1055 01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:04,280 I had heard that term. So it was a month or so after 1056 01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:08,160 this happened to me. I didn't know this community 1057 01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:10,400 existed. I didn't know this was a thing. 1058 01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:14,200 I had no clue until that podcast episode, which is why I brought 1059 01:01:14,200 --> 01:01:17,320 that up. And so once I heard the term 1060 01:01:17,320 --> 01:01:22,480 NPE, then I got on Facebook and started like looking for support 1061 01:01:22,480 --> 01:01:24,720 groups and things. And that's how I came across the 1062 01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:28,160 DNA Angels. So I did reach out to the DNA 1063 01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:30,960 Angels. Unfortunately, they weren't able 1064 01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:35,080 to track him down, but they did give me some good pointers. 1065 01:01:35,120 --> 01:01:37,880 They were very helpful. And just with the process in 1066 01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:41,840 general, but they had suggested, well, you have this second 1067 01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:45,320 cousin, why don't you reach out to them and see if they will get 1068 01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:48,440 their parents to test? And that's like target testing 1069 01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:50,360 so that you can kind of narrow some things down. 1070 01:01:51,080 --> 01:01:53,640 I didn't feel comfortable doing that. 1071 01:01:53,680 --> 01:01:55,360 I'm just intimidated by stuff like that. 1072 01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:56,720 And I don't know who these people are. 1073 01:01:56,720 --> 01:01:59,400 I didn't want to, I just was very uncomfortable with it. 1074 01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:05,080 But a family member of mine, my new family, they own a 1075 01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:09,320 restaurant in my hometown. One of my uncles frequently went 1076 01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:11,280 there. They had had like high school 1077 01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:13,720 breakfast reunion type things there. 1078 01:02:13,720 --> 01:02:15,520 They would like have class breakfast. 1079 01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:20,280 And so he said to me like, Hey, if you want I I would be more 1080 01:02:20,280 --> 01:02:25,200 than happy to talk to the owners and just let them know the 1081 01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:28,320 situation, let them know what happened and maybe they'll get 1082 01:02:28,320 --> 01:02:33,440 in contact with you. So the DNA angels had at least 1083 01:02:33,640 --> 01:02:36,080 given you enough information that you were able to determine 1084 01:02:36,080 --> 01:02:41,080 that the family owned a restaurant in in your hometown. 1085 01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:44,760 You just were not able to get specific information about who 1086 01:02:44,760 --> 01:02:48,000 your biological father was. But that's a big that's a big 1087 01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:51,560 clue. Yes, yes, OK. 1088 01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:55,400 That was a big clue. And I ended up coming across a 1089 01:02:55,400 --> 01:02:57,920 an obituary that was very telling. 1090 01:02:58,240 --> 01:03:01,440 And so this is all, all of these things are kind of happening 1091 01:03:01,440 --> 01:03:05,280 like simultaneously. And so I do find this obituary 1092 01:03:05,360 --> 01:03:11,040 and it lists everyone's names, their spouses, their children's 1093 01:03:11,040 --> 01:03:15,440 names and their locations. So it turns out that the 1094 01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:18,560 majority of my family is actually still in Greece. 1095 01:03:19,120 --> 01:03:22,160 And I think that's why we were having such a hard time in the 1096 01:03:22,160 --> 01:03:25,600 DNA Angels, because a lot of my family is actually still in 1097 01:03:25,600 --> 01:03:28,560 Greece. My grandmother and her sister, 1098 01:03:29,120 --> 01:03:33,560 she comes from a family of seven siblings, and only one brother 1099 01:03:33,560 --> 01:03:35,360 and one sibling ever migrated here. 1100 01:03:35,680 --> 01:03:36,960 Everyone else is still in Greece. 1101 01:03:37,640 --> 01:03:42,360 And it happens to be that her sister is the one who owns the 1102 01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:45,760 restaurant and she has three boys. 1103 01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:52,080 Two of them have children and their boys are who I matched 1104 01:03:52,080 --> 01:03:56,240 with on Ancestry. OK, as first as second cousins, 1105 01:03:56,240 --> 01:04:00,240 2nd cousins. OK, wow. 1106 01:04:00,240 --> 01:04:02,360 And and we sit, we hear it all the time. 1107 01:04:02,360 --> 01:04:07,560 Obituaries are the key. Published obituaries really get 1108 01:04:07,560 --> 01:04:10,640 you where you're going. OK, All right. 1109 01:04:10,640 --> 01:04:16,600 So, so your your uncle offers to go and talk to the owner of the 1110 01:04:16,600 --> 01:04:18,160 restaurant. What happens then? 1111 01:04:18,160 --> 01:04:20,120 Yeah. Well, he offered. 1112 01:04:20,120 --> 01:04:22,040 I did not take him up on his offer right away. 1113 01:04:22,040 --> 01:04:24,000 I think I was still trying to process everything. 1114 01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:26,640 I was like, I want to try to figure out more. 1115 01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:31,840 And through this obituary, I was able to map out. 1116 01:04:31,880 --> 01:04:33,480 I mean, I was like a crazy woman, Alexis. 1117 01:04:33,480 --> 01:04:37,600 I had poster boards in my room with sticky notes and I was like 1118 01:04:38,520 --> 01:04:42,720 moving them all around. And I mean, I was a mad woman 1119 01:04:42,720 --> 01:04:45,520 for weeks and weeks and weeks on end. 1120 01:04:45,520 --> 01:04:50,720 I would stay up until 3/4 in the morning some days just reading 1121 01:04:50,720 --> 01:04:53,800 through stuff online and writing down all of these names and 1122 01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:57,960 trying to match things. And somehow I this obituary, 1123 01:04:57,960 --> 01:05:00,800 like I said, was really telling. But I had come across it a 1124 01:05:00,800 --> 01:05:03,520 couple of times before I fully dissected it. 1125 01:05:03,520 --> 01:05:08,600 So I finally get to a name and I did it through process of 1126 01:05:08,600 --> 01:05:12,400 elimination because my grandmother, who I don't know at 1127 01:05:12,400 --> 01:05:15,160 the time that this she's my grandmother, but her and her 1128 01:05:15,160 --> 01:05:18,240 sister were the only two with ties to my hometown. 1129 01:05:18,280 --> 01:05:21,960 Their other sibling did migrate to Pennsylvania, but a different 1130 01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:25,000 town a couple hours away. And so process of elimination 1131 01:05:25,080 --> 01:05:29,560 told me that it couldn't be those three brothers that I just 1132 01:05:29,560 --> 01:05:32,080 referenced because their children were my second cousin. 1133 01:05:32,080 --> 01:05:34,360 So I knew it wasn't any of them that could be my father. 1134 01:05:34,360 --> 01:05:39,840 So that left one person, my grandmother, and sure enough, 1135 01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:43,640 she had one son. So that made it pretty easy. 1136 01:05:44,640 --> 01:05:49,680 So I narrowed it down that way. And during all of this, my birth 1137 01:05:49,680 --> 01:05:53,960 certificate, father and his wife, more so his wife Tammy, 1138 01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:56,920 she was reaching out to me pretty often. 1139 01:05:56,920 --> 01:06:00,040 I mean, there was definitely an uptick in how much she was 1140 01:06:00,040 --> 01:06:03,880 contacting me because she wanted to know what was going on. 1141 01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:08,840 And I had said to her, I texted her and I said I think I may 1142 01:06:08,840 --> 01:06:11,760 have figured something out. And she had responded, well, I'm 1143 01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:14,040 at dinner. It was her father's birthday. 1144 01:06:14,040 --> 01:06:15,480 So they were at a birthday dinner. 1145 01:06:15,480 --> 01:06:17,840 And she said, I'll text you when we get home. 1146 01:06:17,840 --> 01:06:22,280 But I had sent the name. And so she gets home later that 1147 01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:23,920 evening and get a text message from her. 1148 01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:27,000 And she was like, how did you land on that name? 1149 01:06:27,680 --> 01:06:32,000 So I kind of explained it. And she said, well, I let your 1150 01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:34,080 dad know my birth certificate father. 1151 01:06:34,760 --> 01:06:39,880 And now that you say that name, he recalls being told by a 1152 01:06:39,880 --> 01:06:44,240 female friend of his that your mother was messing around with 1153 01:06:44,400 --> 01:06:49,120 this person while she was dating your father, my birth 1154 01:06:49,120 --> 01:06:51,920 certificate father. So I was like, interesting. 1155 01:06:51,960 --> 01:06:56,920 And then she proceeds to send me a yearbook photo of him. 1156 01:06:57,400 --> 01:06:59,920 And this is the first time I had seen any pictures. 1157 01:07:00,640 --> 01:07:04,720 And Alexis, as soon as I saw the picture, I I knew immediately 1158 01:07:04,720 --> 01:07:08,440 that I was right. I look just like it. 1159 01:07:08,520 --> 01:07:12,800 Wow, how did that feel to to have that validated in that 1160 01:07:12,800 --> 01:07:15,400 moment? It was a huge relief because I 1161 01:07:15,400 --> 01:07:19,760 had spent weeks and weeks and weeks and, you know, I'm in this 1162 01:07:19,760 --> 01:07:24,400 fog and I am so just clueless about everything that's going 1163 01:07:24,400 --> 01:07:25,760 on. And I'm so confused. 1164 01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:29,640 And to see someone that looked like me because as someone who's 1165 01:07:29,640 --> 01:07:34,560 half Greek, growing up with a German family of, you know, fair 1166 01:07:34,560 --> 01:07:39,560 skin, freckles, blue eyes, green eyes, red, you know, red hair, 1167 01:07:39,560 --> 01:07:41,760 like I looked nothing like my family. 1168 01:07:41,760 --> 01:07:43,760 And that was the first time I'd seen anyone that I look like. 1169 01:07:43,760 --> 01:07:48,400 I don't look like my mom either. Did you suspect at all? 1170 01:07:48,400 --> 01:07:52,320 I mean, I know it was a complete surprise to you, but growing up, 1171 01:07:52,320 --> 01:07:55,880 did you ever have any thoughts of am I related to these people 1172 01:07:56,280 --> 01:08:00,000 or anything like that? So it's funny because I always 1173 01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:02,080 thought I always looked different. 1174 01:08:02,080 --> 01:08:06,200 I, I felt different. I never once thought there's no 1175 01:08:06,200 --> 01:08:09,640 way I'm not related to them. That never crossed my mind. 1176 01:08:09,680 --> 01:08:13,680 And to be honest with you, I think a lot of my doubt, we'll 1177 01:08:13,680 --> 01:08:18,200 call it, stemmed more so from just how controlling my father 1178 01:08:18,200 --> 01:08:19,680 was. You know, I didn't have any 1179 01:08:19,680 --> 01:08:22,960 confidence in myself. And so I always thought like, 1180 01:08:22,960 --> 01:08:25,680 you feel like you don't fit in because it wasn't just with my 1181 01:08:25,680 --> 01:08:27,800 family. Like I had a hard time with 1182 01:08:27,800 --> 01:08:29,720 friends and fitting in at school. 1183 01:08:30,279 --> 01:08:34,760 And I always just chalked it up to being had no confidence in 1184 01:08:34,760 --> 01:08:38,080 myself period. So I always felt like an outcast 1185 01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:42,000 no matter where I was. OK, that yeah, that makes sense. 1186 01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:45,880 And and also you were kind of able to explain it away because 1187 01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:49,120 you've learned about your mom. And it was like, there were all 1188 01:08:49,120 --> 01:08:51,000 these little things. Yeah. 1189 01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:51,840 OK. Yeah. 1190 01:08:52,160 --> 01:08:55,600 OK. So you figure out who he is. 1191 01:08:55,800 --> 01:08:59,279 What happens next? So then I take my uncle up on 1192 01:08:59,279 --> 01:09:04,840 his offer and he goes there and I had sent him some photos I'd 1193 01:09:04,840 --> 01:09:07,880 picked out, you know, kind of photos at all stages. 1194 01:09:07,880 --> 01:09:10,600 And so I was like, OK, I gave him like a handful of photos 1195 01:09:11,120 --> 01:09:15,359 just so they had something to look at and maybe they could see 1196 01:09:15,359 --> 01:09:17,960 it themselves. And also to have that, like, 1197 01:09:18,479 --> 01:09:21,479 human touch. I feel like reaching out over 1198 01:09:21,479 --> 01:09:24,960 the phone or even an e-mail. You just never know these days 1199 01:09:24,960 --> 01:09:28,680 with like, scams and frauds. And, you know, and I just didn't 1200 01:09:28,680 --> 01:09:30,479 feel comfortable doing any of that. 1201 01:09:31,000 --> 01:09:32,560 So I thought maybe this is a better way. 1202 01:09:32,560 --> 01:09:34,640 He can talk to them face to face. 1203 01:09:34,680 --> 01:09:36,439 He can show them my text message. 1204 01:09:36,439 --> 01:09:41,279 He can show them photos and it actually went pretty well. 1205 01:09:41,279 --> 01:09:45,160 None of the brothers were there, but one of the wives who also 1206 01:09:45,279 --> 01:09:49,520 runs a restaurant, he talked to her and she said, OK, I will 1207 01:09:50,080 --> 01:09:53,920 reach out to my father's name is They call him Bill. 1208 01:09:54,040 --> 01:09:57,280 And and so she said, I'll reach out to Bill's mom and I'll let 1209 01:09:57,280 --> 01:10:02,520 her decide how to handle this. So this was on a Saturday and 1210 01:10:02,760 --> 01:10:06,720 that Monday morning I got a phone call from my grandmother 1211 01:10:06,760 --> 01:10:10,600 and the rest is history. I mean, that was the beginning 1212 01:10:10,600 --> 01:10:16,600 of our relationship. That was in October of 2022. 1213 01:10:17,440 --> 01:10:20,200 So we've been in touch ever since. 1214 01:10:20,760 --> 01:10:23,480 I've, I've only had the opportunity to go back home and 1215 01:10:23,480 --> 01:10:27,400 meet her one time, but I, I did get that and I also got to meet 1216 01:10:27,720 --> 01:10:32,040 my aunt, her son. So I have a cousin and I also 1217 01:10:32,040 --> 01:10:35,320 found out in this process that I have another an older half 1218 01:10:35,320 --> 01:10:42,640 sibling but he was not married to her mother either and got to 1219 01:10:42,640 --> 01:10:46,000 meet them as well. I have not been able to meet my 1220 01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:49,200 father. The reason that they went to my 1221 01:10:49,200 --> 01:10:53,600 grandmother instead of directly to him is because he is dealing 1222 01:10:53,600 --> 01:10:56,880 with some mental health issues. He's just not in a good place 1223 01:10:56,880 --> 01:11:00,000 and they didn't know if he would be able to handle like this kind 1224 01:11:00,000 --> 01:11:02,760 of news because obviously it's big news. 1225 01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:06,800 And my grandmother actually didn't even tell him for the 1226 01:11:06,800 --> 01:11:10,040 first month or so of us talking. It was just me and her. 1227 01:11:10,040 --> 01:11:12,680 I was kind of a a secret, if you will. 1228 01:11:13,200 --> 01:11:17,040 Was she excited? Like what was her reaction when 1229 01:11:17,040 --> 01:11:20,280 you started talking to her? She was excited. 1230 01:11:20,320 --> 01:11:23,400 She was a little apprehensive, but I understand that. 1231 01:11:23,880 --> 01:11:27,080 But she was very excited. She was very happy. 1232 01:11:27,120 --> 01:11:29,560 Like most Greek people, huge family. 1233 01:11:29,560 --> 01:11:32,560 She comes from a huge family. She's very family oriented and 1234 01:11:32,560 --> 01:11:36,840 so she was just ecstatic. That's amazing he knows about 1235 01:11:36,840 --> 01:11:40,560 you now. He does my SO. 1236 01:11:40,560 --> 01:11:44,320 My grandmother ended up telling my aunt within probably a month 1237 01:11:45,040 --> 01:11:48,000 or so. I would say she didn't want to 1238 01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:51,000 tell anyone at first and not because she was embarrassed or 1239 01:11:51,000 --> 01:11:54,400 ashamed or anything like that. I think she just, I think she 1240 01:11:54,400 --> 01:11:58,240 was processing it herself too. And she was of course protective 1241 01:11:58,240 --> 01:12:01,120 of, of my father, but she couldn't like she couldn't 1242 01:12:01,120 --> 01:12:03,640 contain her excitement. So she ended up telling my aunt 1243 01:12:03,640 --> 01:12:09,000 and my aunt said, you know, mom, I understand you wanting to 1244 01:12:09,000 --> 01:12:12,360 protect Bill, but he deserves to know. 1245 01:12:13,040 --> 01:12:17,400 And so she ended up telling him from what my aunt says, he took 1246 01:12:17,400 --> 01:12:19,360 it pretty well. Like he was shocked. 1247 01:12:19,880 --> 01:12:23,280 He had no idea my, my mother never said anything to him. 1248 01:12:23,280 --> 01:12:26,120 So it was a surprise to him. He asked questions. 1249 01:12:26,120 --> 01:12:29,040 He was, you know, curious about me. 1250 01:12:29,600 --> 01:12:34,120 He saw the pictures of me. And so that made me feel a 1251 01:12:34,120 --> 01:12:37,800 little better, I think to know that he, even though he's not in 1252 01:12:37,800 --> 01:12:41,640 a place where he has the capacity to talk to me today, I 1253 01:12:41,640 --> 01:12:44,800 think just knowing that he had some level of curiosity, he 1254 01:12:44,800 --> 01:12:47,880 didn't just write it off. And he confirmed that he dated 1255 01:12:47,880 --> 01:12:51,160 my mom. And so that was very, I think it 1256 01:12:51,160 --> 01:12:53,960 was good for everyone to hear that coming from him. 1257 01:12:53,960 --> 01:12:56,280 So it was validating for, you know, all of us. 1258 01:12:56,440 --> 01:12:58,800 Yeah. That's really awesome. 1259 01:12:59,120 --> 01:13:03,320 OK, so you've met your grandmother, you've spent time 1260 01:13:03,320 --> 01:13:05,800 with your family when you've gone home. 1261 01:13:06,280 --> 01:13:08,240 Yeah. How does it feel to have that 1262 01:13:08,640 --> 01:13:13,000 newfound biological connection? Yeah, it feels really, really 1263 01:13:13,000 --> 01:13:14,880 good. I'm just taking it one day at a 1264 01:13:14,880 --> 01:13:17,160 time. It it the hardest part is being 1265 01:13:17,160 --> 01:13:23,120 so far away because I do really feel like if I were back home, I 1266 01:13:23,120 --> 01:13:27,080 would probably have the best connection with them because you 1267 01:13:27,080 --> 01:13:29,000 just meeting them, it felt so natural. 1268 01:13:29,000 --> 01:13:32,680 I didn't it didn't feel weird. We connected right away and my 1269 01:13:32,680 --> 01:13:34,480 grandmother and I are so much alike. 1270 01:13:34,480 --> 01:13:36,120 It's funny. We get on the phone and I just 1271 01:13:36,120 --> 01:13:40,480 have so much fun talking to her. We literally just chat like 2 1272 01:13:40,480 --> 01:13:44,120 old ladies you know? Like I really enjoy talking to 1273 01:13:44,120 --> 01:13:49,280 her, so I'm very thankful for that and I just wish that I was 1274 01:13:49,280 --> 01:13:52,720 closer. I don't mean to bring it back 1275 01:13:52,720 --> 01:14:00,000 down, but I'm curious if your mother ever learned about the 1276 01:14:00,000 --> 01:14:03,360 truth through a roundabout way, because I know you don't have 1277 01:14:03,360 --> 01:14:05,800 contact. I so I do not have contact. 1278 01:14:05,800 --> 01:14:09,760 However, I did reach out to her because I did my whole list of 1279 01:14:09,880 --> 01:14:13,240 names in the yearbook and I was like, this is not going to get 1280 01:14:13,240 --> 01:14:15,800 me anywhere. So I'm talking to my husband and 1281 01:14:15,800 --> 01:14:19,680 he was like, Dan, I think the only person who knows the real 1282 01:14:19,680 --> 01:14:22,440 truth is your mother. Like, you have to ask her. 1283 01:14:22,440 --> 01:14:23,760 And I'm like, well, how do I even do that? 1284 01:14:23,760 --> 01:14:26,080 I haven't spoken to her in years. 1285 01:14:26,080 --> 01:14:28,920 I don't know where she's at. I don't even know if she's alive 1286 01:14:28,920 --> 01:14:31,240 at this point. Like, who knows what happened to 1287 01:14:31,240 --> 01:14:34,640 her? And so I ended up, again, doing 1288 01:14:34,640 --> 01:14:38,600 research on her because she had since moved. 1289 01:14:38,640 --> 01:14:40,680 She wasn't dating the guy that she was with. 1290 01:14:40,680 --> 01:14:45,000 Whenever I met her in my college years, she had been married. 1291 01:14:45,040 --> 01:14:46,560 So she had a different last name. 1292 01:14:46,920 --> 01:14:49,400 I did track her down. I found her on Facebook. 1293 01:14:49,400 --> 01:14:52,680 I did message her. And I let her know, like, hey, I 1294 01:14:52,680 --> 01:14:56,160 got these DNA results. Michael isn't my biological 1295 01:14:56,160 --> 01:14:57,960 father. Can you tell me who? 1296 01:14:58,760 --> 01:15:02,040 And it didn't get me anywhere. Nothing has changed with her. 1297 01:15:02,120 --> 01:15:04,840 She's still her. You know, she tried to tell me 1298 01:15:04,840 --> 01:15:08,520 that she had no idea, which maybe she truly didn't. 1299 01:15:08,520 --> 01:15:10,480 I believe that she was such a mess. 1300 01:15:10,480 --> 01:15:14,480 And so I, I, I don't think that it was an intentional thing that 1301 01:15:14,480 --> 01:15:19,680 she had, but she just made it seem like he was the only, it 1302 01:15:19,680 --> 01:15:23,320 could have only been him. Well, then eventually she said, 1303 01:15:23,320 --> 01:15:26,120 well, OK, it could have only been one other person. 1304 01:15:26,760 --> 01:15:31,440 She said his name was John. I'm like, it's not John. 1305 01:15:31,440 --> 01:15:34,920 I know that I didn't give her a whole lot of information upfront 1306 01:15:35,080 --> 01:15:38,280 because I was really hoping that she would be able to tell me. 1307 01:15:38,840 --> 01:15:41,840 So I didn't tell her that I knew it was a Greek man. 1308 01:15:42,960 --> 01:15:44,520 And then eventually I did tell her that. 1309 01:15:44,520 --> 01:15:47,040 And she was like, I think your results are wrong. 1310 01:15:47,040 --> 01:15:48,760 I've never been with a Greek man. 1311 01:15:49,040 --> 01:15:51,520 You know, just deny, deny, deny, deny. 1312 01:15:51,680 --> 01:15:56,960 And the typical things, I had messaged her in August I believe 1313 01:15:56,960 --> 01:15:59,240 she didn't respond. I messaged her again in 1314 01:15:59,240 --> 01:16:02,520 September, she didn't respond. So then finally I messaged her 1315 01:16:02,520 --> 01:16:06,800 in October once I figured all of it out and she never even read 1316 01:16:06,800 --> 01:16:09,880 that message. So I just that was it. 1317 01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:11,360 She just stopped responding to me. 1318 01:16:11,400 --> 01:16:18,320 I'm curious about how you've handled the what ifs because 1319 01:16:18,320 --> 01:16:24,760 you've had such a hard life. You've had a lot of really hard 1320 01:16:24,760 --> 01:16:30,760 things happen in your life, and then you meet this boisterous 1321 01:16:30,760 --> 01:16:33,960 Greek family who's really welcoming to you. 1322 01:16:34,320 --> 01:16:37,680 On the other hand, you learned that your father has some mental 1323 01:16:37,680 --> 01:16:42,880 health issues. Where are you at with the what 1324 01:16:42,880 --> 01:16:45,840 ifs that I feel like so many of us struggle with? 1325 01:16:46,480 --> 01:16:50,280 Yeah, I honestly still am really struggling with that, 1326 01:16:50,840 --> 01:16:57,000 specifically with missing out on my Greek family because I at 1327 01:16:57,000 --> 01:17:00,400 this point I've shared a little more information with my 1328 01:17:00,400 --> 01:17:03,360 grandmother. I'm not giving her every detail, 1329 01:17:03,560 --> 01:17:08,440 but I've shared enough that she understands just what you said. 1330 01:17:08,440 --> 01:17:11,880 But I had a rough upbringing and it breaks her heart. 1331 01:17:12,480 --> 01:17:16,200 I almost have to stop myself from saying anymore to her 1332 01:17:16,200 --> 01:17:20,440 because she cries and she gets so upset and she always 1333 01:17:20,600 --> 01:17:23,360 apologizes and I tell her it's it's not your fault. 1334 01:17:23,360 --> 01:17:25,880 But she says if I would have known, I would have taken care 1335 01:17:25,880 --> 01:17:28,160 of you. You know, we would have loved 1336 01:17:28,160 --> 01:17:30,240 you in. And I know that they would have. 1337 01:17:30,920 --> 01:17:34,040 I know it would have been a totally different situation. 1338 01:17:35,440 --> 01:17:37,440 And I think that's the hardest part. 1339 01:17:38,240 --> 01:17:41,960 You know, I'm not saying the grass is always greater on the 1340 01:17:41,960 --> 01:17:44,240 other side. They had their struggles too, 1341 01:17:44,920 --> 01:17:50,000 but as far as just feeling loved, I know I would have had 1342 01:17:50,000 --> 01:17:54,960 that with them even if it wasn't through my father because he has 1343 01:17:54,960 --> 01:17:59,160 struggled for a long time, pretty much ever since him and 1344 01:17:59,160 --> 01:18:02,400 his ex-wife got divorced. That was the beginning of his 1345 01:18:02,400 --> 01:18:06,360 downward spiral and that was like I think like 17 years ago. 1346 01:18:06,520 --> 01:18:08,880 So it's been a long time. OK. 1347 01:18:09,400 --> 01:18:13,320 So I may not have had the relationship with him, but I 1348 01:18:13,360 --> 01:18:15,560 know I would have had that closeness with the rest of my 1349 01:18:15,560 --> 01:18:18,760 family and it would have been a whole different dynamic. 1350 01:18:19,440 --> 01:18:23,000 Yeah, I'm just so sorry that you've been through so much. 1351 01:18:23,440 --> 01:18:29,120 Have you begun exploring this newfound Greek heritage that you 1352 01:18:29,120 --> 01:18:31,400 have? Is it something that you feel 1353 01:18:31,400 --> 01:18:33,800 like you connect to? And how are you doing that? 1354 01:18:34,360 --> 01:18:38,680 I do. I have started taking lessons on 1355 01:18:38,680 --> 01:18:41,680 Duolingo, so I'm trying to learn a little Greek. 1356 01:18:41,720 --> 01:18:44,840 My grandmother will and I call her ya ya because that you know 1357 01:18:44,840 --> 01:18:49,520 that's grandma in Greek and she'll always say, you know one 1358 01:18:49,520 --> 01:18:51,000 or two words here and there in Greek. 1359 01:18:51,000 --> 01:18:55,120 So I and I asked her to try to like teach me some things. 1360 01:18:55,520 --> 01:18:59,000 I have always loved Mediterranean food in general 1361 01:18:59,000 --> 01:19:02,600 and so, but now I've incorporated more like I'll try 1362 01:19:02,960 --> 01:19:05,520 new recipes, new Greek recipes at home. 1363 01:19:06,160 --> 01:19:12,080 I'm actually going to cook a traditional Greek Easter dinner. 1364 01:19:12,600 --> 01:19:16,800 So I'm not Greek Orthodox, but I do want to start incorporating 1365 01:19:16,800 --> 01:19:19,600 some of those types of traditions into our family. 1366 01:19:19,600 --> 01:19:22,080 And I've talked to my husband about that and he's totally fine 1367 01:19:22,080 --> 01:19:24,240 with that. He's Catholic, and he comes from 1368 01:19:24,240 --> 01:19:26,800 a strong Catholic background, and our daughters go to a 1369 01:19:26,800 --> 01:19:29,920 Catholic school, but he's very open and understanding and 1370 01:19:30,200 --> 01:19:34,680 willing to, you know, honor some of those traditions and things. 1371 01:19:34,680 --> 01:19:37,480 And so, yeah, just slowly incorporating some of those 1372 01:19:37,480 --> 01:19:39,800 things into our lives. And I talked to my girls about, 1373 01:19:39,800 --> 01:19:44,040 I mean, they're so young, they have no idea about my story, but 1374 01:19:44,040 --> 01:19:45,240 they got to meet. Yeah. 1375 01:19:45,240 --> 01:19:48,800 Yeah. When we went home last year and 1376 01:19:48,800 --> 01:19:52,360 to see that, it was one of the coolest things about all of 1377 01:19:52,360 --> 01:19:55,720 this. My youngest daughter, she, she's 1378 01:19:55,720 --> 01:19:58,800 not shy, but she wants what she wants when she wants it. 1379 01:19:58,800 --> 01:20:02,560 And she can be very particular and she's not always the warmest 1380 01:20:02,560 --> 01:20:05,080 child, if you know what I mean. Like she's a little rebellious. 1381 01:20:05,080 --> 01:20:10,080 And, and so we went over there and they warmed up to her right 1382 01:20:10,080 --> 01:20:13,080 away. My oldest is shy and she was not 1383 01:20:13,080 --> 01:20:16,440 shy. It was almost like to them, it 1384 01:20:16,440 --> 01:20:20,520 felt like home also. So that was so cool to see. 1385 01:20:20,520 --> 01:20:23,960 And then when we went to leave Ava, my youngest, I mean, she 1386 01:20:23,960 --> 01:20:26,920 just lost it. She was bawling her eyes out and 1387 01:20:26,920 --> 01:20:28,920 she said, I don't want to leave. I don't want to leave. 1388 01:20:29,240 --> 01:20:32,120 And they had just met this woman and that was something that just 1389 01:20:32,200 --> 01:20:35,920 I'll never forget that. And so we talk about mommy's 1390 01:20:35,960 --> 01:20:39,520 mommy is Greek and you know, I teach them just random Greek. 1391 01:20:39,520 --> 01:20:43,760 I'm by no means close to being fluent, but I'm just trying to 1392 01:20:43,760 --> 01:20:47,440 kind of them so that the older they get when they start to 1393 01:20:47,440 --> 01:20:50,200 understand they realize as well. Yeah. 1394 01:20:50,200 --> 01:20:54,240 And you have such very close ties to Greece. 1395 01:20:55,040 --> 01:20:57,920 Do you have any plans or is it on your list that you want to 1396 01:20:57,920 --> 01:21:00,440 get over? There for sure, for sure and 1397 01:21:00,440 --> 01:21:03,480 it's always been on my list. Like that's the crazy thing. 1398 01:21:03,480 --> 01:21:07,240 I feel like Greece has been a popular destination more 1399 01:21:07,240 --> 01:21:12,440 recently, but long before. I've always wanted to go to 1400 01:21:12,440 --> 01:21:15,680 Greece, always. And I never really knew why it 1401 01:21:15,680 --> 01:21:18,120 stuck out to me. I mean, now I know why. 1402 01:21:18,520 --> 01:21:22,400 When I was in college, I worked at a Greek restaurant in my 1403 01:21:22,400 --> 01:21:24,960 hometown as well. And so it was just so funny. 1404 01:21:24,960 --> 01:21:28,080 It wasn't their restaurant, but it's just, you know, looking 1405 01:21:28,080 --> 01:21:31,000 back, it's so funny to me how close it was. 1406 01:21:31,320 --> 01:21:33,640 You know, Speaking of the unthought known, right, But. 1407 01:21:33,760 --> 01:21:37,520 You know how I, I mentioned that I went through the yearbook and 1408 01:21:37,520 --> 01:21:40,760 it just started jotting down these random names and then I'm 1409 01:21:40,760 --> 01:21:42,720 like, what are you doing? Like, what are you? 1410 01:21:42,800 --> 01:21:46,520 What is this going to get you? So I had like, tossed that paper 1411 01:21:46,520 --> 01:21:50,360 aside and that's when I pulled out my poster boards and things 1412 01:21:50,360 --> 01:21:53,200 after I didn't get anywhere with my mother. 1413 01:21:53,920 --> 01:21:58,160 And I had come across this paper a few months later, and Alexis, 1414 01:21:58,160 --> 01:21:59,800 my father's name, is on that paper. 1415 01:22:00,520 --> 01:22:07,120 So you did find him initially. Yeah, I just, that gave me the 1416 01:22:07,120 --> 01:22:11,440 chills to then see his name because I honestly didn't 1417 01:22:11,440 --> 01:22:13,560 remember any of the names on that piece of paper. 1418 01:22:13,560 --> 01:22:15,600 It was just like a what am I even doing? 1419 01:22:15,600 --> 01:22:18,280 I have no clue. And then I come across this 1420 01:22:18,280 --> 01:22:22,560 paper again and I see his name and I'm like, holy shit, it was. 1421 01:22:22,720 --> 01:22:24,480 It was right in front of me all along. 1422 01:22:25,840 --> 01:22:29,320 So, so many of these stories, it's like a combination of 1423 01:22:29,480 --> 01:22:33,320 really hard work and luck. Wow, wow. 1424 01:22:34,200 --> 01:22:36,920 I wanted to ask you about your relationship with your older 1425 01:22:36,920 --> 01:22:38,760 sister. How is that going? 1426 01:22:38,920 --> 01:22:42,600 Do you talk to her regularly? I wouldn't say regularly, but we 1427 01:22:42,600 --> 01:22:45,680 do try to keep in touch. We have very different lives. 1428 01:22:45,680 --> 01:22:49,120 I've, I've got two young kids. She does not have any kids. 1429 01:22:49,120 --> 01:22:52,880 She's not married. And she works for a restaurant 1430 01:22:53,440 --> 01:22:57,040 and so she works late hours, you know, bartending and that sort 1431 01:22:57,040 --> 01:23:00,240 of thing. And so we do keep in touch. 1432 01:23:00,280 --> 01:23:04,360 She sends my girls Christmas gifts and, and we send birthday 1433 01:23:04,360 --> 01:23:06,480 gifts to each other and, and that sort of thing. 1434 01:23:07,600 --> 01:23:10,040 So it's been good. We're just, we're very 1435 01:23:10,040 --> 01:23:13,160 different, but we're also very similar in, in the most random 1436 01:23:13,160 --> 01:23:15,520 ways. I don't know that we'll ever be 1437 01:23:15,520 --> 01:23:19,760 like super, super close, but I think it's just because of how 1438 01:23:19,760 --> 01:23:21,320 different our lives are, you know? 1439 01:23:21,600 --> 01:23:24,400 Sure, sure. What about your brother? 1440 01:23:24,400 --> 01:23:27,000 Were there any questions about his paternity? 1441 01:23:28,480 --> 01:23:32,520 Pretty convinced that Michael is also not his biological father. 1442 01:23:32,520 --> 01:23:37,000 However do not know for sure. I was the one who told him about 1443 01:23:37,040 --> 01:23:41,280 my results when I called him. I did say if you want or have 1444 01:23:41,280 --> 01:23:45,720 any interest in taking ADNA test I will happily buy you the test 1445 01:23:45,720 --> 01:23:47,960 and send it to you. I can even get the results if 1446 01:23:47,960 --> 01:23:50,880 you're maybe nervous or afraid of what they might be. 1447 01:23:51,520 --> 01:23:54,080 And he, he said, OK, OK, you know, I'll think about it. 1448 01:23:54,080 --> 01:23:57,480 But he has not express any interest in doing that. 1449 01:23:57,560 --> 01:24:00,360 And I don't know for sure what's holding him back. 1450 01:24:00,360 --> 01:24:04,520 But, you know, you say I have had a rough life. 1451 01:24:04,600 --> 01:24:07,120 He's had it so much worse than me. 1452 01:24:07,120 --> 01:24:12,400 I've had therapy and I've had a solid support, you know, most of 1453 01:24:12,400 --> 01:24:15,600 my life to be able to process these things. 1454 01:24:15,600 --> 01:24:17,680 But I just don't know if he can handle it. 1455 01:24:17,680 --> 01:24:19,720 I don't know that he wants to know. 1456 01:24:20,440 --> 01:24:24,400 Yeah, totally understand what things have been helping you 1457 01:24:24,720 --> 01:24:30,560 through this experience. I think going to the conference 1458 01:24:30,680 --> 01:24:34,080 where I met you so early on, I think a lot of people were very 1459 01:24:34,080 --> 01:24:36,880 surprised. That one, I got a lot of 1460 01:24:36,880 --> 01:24:40,560 comments about how young I was, which you never know when you're 1461 01:24:40,560 --> 01:24:46,320 going to find this out, but going so early was very helpful 1462 01:24:46,320 --> 01:24:50,680 because at that point I had only been like six months into maybe 1463 01:24:50,680 --> 01:24:52,880 eight months into my journey of finding out. 1464 01:24:52,880 --> 01:24:56,000 It was, yeah, it was really fresh when we met. 1465 01:24:56,480 --> 01:24:58,880 Yeah. And so while it was very hard 1466 01:24:58,880 --> 01:25:03,040 because I, I did, I came out of that and I was like, wow, that 1467 01:25:03,040 --> 01:25:06,760 was a lot. But it was also super helpful to 1468 01:25:06,760 --> 01:25:11,360 have that kind of network so early on and all of the tips and 1469 01:25:11,400 --> 01:25:14,160 advice that they gave and all of the workshops. 1470 01:25:14,160 --> 01:25:16,960 I mean, it was just a tremendous amount of information and 1471 01:25:16,960 --> 01:25:18,680 knowledge that was incredibly helpful. 1472 01:25:19,320 --> 01:25:24,240 Of course, therapy, I've been leaning a lot into the physical 1473 01:25:24,400 --> 01:25:29,560 side of it, you know, movement, sunshine, exercise and and then 1474 01:25:30,320 --> 01:25:34,520 just having my kids has been so life changing as well. 1475 01:25:34,920 --> 01:25:38,640 That's been healing for me too. Because now, and this might 1476 01:25:38,640 --> 01:25:43,120 sound strange, but I see myself in them as children and I think 1477 01:25:43,120 --> 01:25:47,360 it has helped make me a better parent because I know what 1478 01:25:47,360 --> 01:25:49,960 little Deanna went through and I don't want them to go through 1479 01:25:49,960 --> 01:25:53,720 that. And so just knowing that I'm 1480 01:25:53,720 --> 01:25:57,440 doing my best and obviously I'm not perfect, but knowing that 1481 01:25:57,440 --> 01:26:01,880 I'm doing my best to break those cycles helps me as well. 1482 01:26:01,880 --> 01:26:03,320 And then, of course, talking about it. 1483 01:26:03,880 --> 01:26:08,960 Yeah, with our little ones, it, it's an opportunity to re parent 1484 01:26:08,960 --> 01:26:12,560 ourselves in a way because like you said, you you see little 1485 01:26:12,560 --> 01:26:18,160 Deanna and now you get a chance to parent yourself the way that 1486 01:26:18,160 --> 01:26:22,360 you wanted to be parented. So I, I wasn't sure if you 1487 01:26:22,360 --> 01:26:25,600 wanted to talk because I saw your Facebook post that you just 1488 01:26:25,600 --> 01:26:29,640 celebrated 100 days sober. What's your story there? 1489 01:26:29,640 --> 01:26:35,440 So I was not on the same path as I was in college, you know, 1490 01:26:35,800 --> 01:26:40,560 since having kids drinking, I, you know, cut back tremendously. 1491 01:26:40,920 --> 01:26:46,200 However, it was still, I would say interfering and and not in 1492 01:26:46,200 --> 01:26:49,160 the way of like AI was not a functioning alcoholic. 1493 01:26:49,160 --> 01:26:53,600 But I would still turn to the class of wine when I had a hard 1494 01:26:53,600 --> 01:26:54,920 day. Because as you know, this 1495 01:26:54,920 --> 01:27:00,360 process, you have days and sometimes weeks where you're in 1496 01:27:00,360 --> 01:27:03,640 a funk, you're in this groove and, you know, I couldn't get it 1497 01:27:03,640 --> 01:27:05,680 off my mind. And so I would want to have a 1498 01:27:05,680 --> 01:27:07,760 glass of wine or sometimes a bottle of wine. 1499 01:27:07,760 --> 01:27:11,560 And I just realized, like, this is not healthy. 1500 01:27:11,560 --> 01:27:15,400 And more importantly, it's not helping me. 1501 01:27:15,800 --> 01:27:19,240 I think it was making me more anxious, more depressed about 1502 01:27:19,240 --> 01:27:21,920 the situation. And it I just wasn't the best 1503 01:27:21,920 --> 01:27:26,320 version of myself for myself or my kids or my family. 1504 01:27:26,840 --> 01:27:30,440 And so I decided, you know, if I'm going to get through this, I 1505 01:27:30,440 --> 01:27:33,360 really need to lean in and face it. 1506 01:27:33,400 --> 01:27:38,320 And not just the DNA surprise, but all of the trauma of my 1507 01:27:38,320 --> 01:27:42,080 past. I suppressed everything for 1508 01:27:42,600 --> 01:27:46,160 almost my entire life up until I had children. 1509 01:27:46,560 --> 01:27:52,040 And it wasn't until I had Parker that I really realized how much 1510 01:27:52,040 --> 01:27:55,960 it affected me and how deeply it affected me 'cause I had never, 1511 01:27:55,960 --> 01:27:58,560 I just never faced it. I think it was a combination of 1512 01:27:58,560 --> 01:28:02,360 everything and me wanting to, you know, just say like it's 1513 01:28:02,360 --> 01:28:06,640 time to face everything and stop numbing yourself and just get 1514 01:28:06,640 --> 01:28:10,600 through it and to be more present for myself, for my 1515 01:28:10,600 --> 01:28:13,600 girls. You know, I, I just wanted to be 1516 01:28:13,600 --> 01:28:18,880 more present in life and, and actually it, it, it sounds crazy 1517 01:28:19,120 --> 01:28:23,600 like when you say you actually want to feel your feelings, but 1518 01:28:23,960 --> 01:28:26,560 I did. I I knew that that was the only 1519 01:28:26,560 --> 01:28:30,360 way to truly get through it and come out on the other side of a 1520 01:28:30,360 --> 01:28:35,280 better version of myself. So in your case, it sounds like 1521 01:28:35,560 --> 01:28:40,320 neither of your parents really knew, but I'd still love for you 1522 01:28:40,720 --> 01:28:44,800 to share any advice that you have for a parent who might be 1523 01:28:44,800 --> 01:28:47,120 keeping adna surprise from their child I. 1524 01:28:47,120 --> 01:28:51,960 Think the truth is ultimately what they should give their 1525 01:28:51,960 --> 01:28:57,240 child or children, but think even before that, whatever is 1526 01:28:57,240 --> 01:29:01,040 holding them back, I think they need to take the time to address 1527 01:29:01,040 --> 01:29:04,120 that and get to the root cause. Because a lot of times we hear 1528 01:29:04,120 --> 01:29:09,520 that it's, you know, guilt or shame or fear or, you know, 1529 01:29:09,520 --> 01:29:12,760 there's a religious aspect or having a child out of wedlock or 1530 01:29:12,760 --> 01:29:14,720 infidelity or whatever it may be. 1531 01:29:14,720 --> 01:29:18,280 Whatever it takes to address that so that they can be at 1532 01:29:18,280 --> 01:29:22,800 peace with their feelings or their decisions that cause those 1533 01:29:22,800 --> 01:29:26,320 feelings or the secret, go to therapy. 1534 01:29:26,320 --> 01:29:30,960 What you know, whatever it is, it's going to help them because 1535 01:29:30,960 --> 01:29:34,440 I think 1, they're going to need help with getting through that 1536 01:29:34,440 --> 01:29:37,560 themselves. And two, it will make them a 1537 01:29:37,560 --> 01:29:40,080 better person. And three, I think it'll make 1538 01:29:40,080 --> 01:29:44,120 the conversation with their child or children more fruitful 1539 01:29:44,120 --> 01:29:47,600 and more meaningful. If you can say, hey look, I 1540 01:29:47,600 --> 01:29:52,160 messed up or this happened, but I'm I'm also doing this to heal 1541 01:29:52,160 --> 01:29:56,600 myself as well. And what advice do you have for 1542 01:29:56,600 --> 01:29:59,560 someone who just uncovered Adna surprise? 1543 01:30:00,480 --> 01:30:05,200 Gosh, that's such a hard question because there's so many 1544 01:30:05,200 --> 01:30:11,640 things, but I have kind of lived by grace and space is what I 1545 01:30:11,640 --> 01:30:14,600 say. I give myself a lot of grace to 1546 01:30:14,600 --> 01:30:19,000 navigate this and what I found out and everyone is different, 1547 01:30:19,560 --> 01:30:23,760 but for me, it was so shocking. And I actually kind of took a 1548 01:30:23,760 --> 01:30:28,440 step back from pretty much from life, if you will. 1549 01:30:28,440 --> 01:30:29,640 I mean, I still had to be a parent. 1550 01:30:29,640 --> 01:30:35,560 I still had to go to work, but I took space from friends, from 1551 01:30:35,560 --> 01:30:41,560 family to process, to heal, to, you know, think about what I was 1552 01:30:41,560 --> 01:30:45,120 going to do next. So I think just give yourself 1553 01:30:45,240 --> 01:30:49,720 the grace and the space that you need and the way you need it and 1554 01:30:49,720 --> 01:30:52,560 when you need it because it comes and it goes. 1555 01:30:52,600 --> 01:30:56,080 You have good months, good weeks, good days, but then you 1556 01:30:56,080 --> 01:30:59,480 also have bad ones. And sometimes you need to kind 1557 01:30:59,480 --> 01:31:01,800 of step back and give yourself that space. 1558 01:31:02,480 --> 01:31:07,120 More really good advice. Thank you, Deanna, thank you so 1559 01:31:07,120 --> 01:31:12,880 much for coming on and sharing your incredible story and just 1560 01:31:12,880 --> 01:31:17,880 being so vulnerable and open about all of the things in your 1561 01:31:17,880 --> 01:31:21,320 life that have happened, the good and the bad. 1562 01:31:21,880 --> 01:31:28,760 And I just want to congratulate you for being a cycle breaker as 1563 01:31:28,760 --> 01:31:33,040 you parent your daughters and take care of yourself as well. 1564 01:31:33,040 --> 01:31:34,720 Thank you, Alexis, that means a lot. 1565 01:31:34,720 --> 01:31:39,680 And thank you for giving me the platform and the opportunity and 1566 01:31:39,720 --> 01:31:43,320 thank you for doing this. I know it's not easy for you and 1567 01:31:43,400 --> 01:31:47,360 it's a lot of time and love and passion that you put into this 1568 01:31:47,360 --> 01:31:50,680 and it's it has helped me heal tremendously. 1569 01:31:50,680 --> 01:31:55,160 I mean, I listen to your podcast, among others, and I can 1570 01:31:55,160 --> 01:32:00,320 honestly say it's probably one of the best things for all of us 1571 01:32:00,360 --> 01:32:03,800 that need it. So, you know, thank you for 1572 01:32:03,960 --> 01:32:06,200 giving us the space. Thank you so much. 1573 01:32:06,400 --> 01:32:08,880 Thanks again to Deanna for sharing her story. 1574 01:32:09,480 --> 01:32:13,440 We will be back in September with more DNA surprises. 1575 01:32:14,320 --> 01:32:19,320 We will also be celebrating the 100th episode of this podcast 1576 01:32:20,000 --> 01:32:23,720 and I have some surprises and updates in store for you. 1577 01:32:24,680 --> 01:32:27,200 Take care of yourselves until next time. 1578 01:32:27,920 --> 01:32:32,920 This episode of DNA Surprises was hosted, produced, and edited 1579 01:32:33,160 --> 01:32:37,440 by me, Alexis Ourselt. It was mixed and mastered by 1580 01:32:37,440 --> 01:32:40,680 Josh Ourselt of Siren Recording Studios.