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Welcome to the season finale of 
DNA Surprises. 

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Before we get started, I wanted 
to thank you for listening to 

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the show. 
We've shared dozens of stories, 

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and your continued support means
so much. 

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If you haven't yet, will you do 
me a favor? 

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Please subscribe to the show on 
Spotify, Apple, or wherever you 

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listen to podcasts. 
And while you're there, can you 

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leave a review? 
It really helps increase the DNA

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surprises reach. 
OK, on with the show. 

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Thank you again for listening. 
It's been really hard. 

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And you know, I, I haven't 
talked very much about my father

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and I've, I've mentioned my 
mother. 

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They're wonderful people. 
And my father died unexpectedly 

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five years ago, traumatically 
and unexpectedly. 

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And I loved my father very, very
much. 

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I don't know what he would be 
thinking or feeling knowing that

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I'm in reunion with my 
biological father. 

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It's hard for me to know because
he never communicated any 

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feelings about that whatsoever. 
One of my therapists said to me 

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that a parent provides, protects
and prepares and it's undeniable

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to me who my parents are. 
They're the people who loved and

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raised me. 
I mean, my adoptive parents, 

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they facefully match that 
description. 

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And honestly, what do I wish? 
I mean I wish more than anything

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that I was my parents biological
child. 

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Welcome to DNA Surprises, a 
podcast that explores the life 

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altering world of unexpected DNA
discoveries. 

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I'm your host, Alexis Oursalt. 
This show centers the stories of

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people who've experienced NP, ES
or non paternal events. 

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In other words, people who've 
learned that their biological 

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father isn't who they thought he
was. 

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We'll also hear from adoptees, 
donor conceived people, and the 

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families navigating these 
discoveries. 

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Get ready to follow the 
incredible journeys that begin 

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with a simple DNA test. 
This is DNA surprises. 

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An interesting thing about DNA 
surprises is how much they can 

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rock your identity. 
Not once, but over and over 

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again. 
Every time a layer is pulled 

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back with new information, the 
foundation on which you've built

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your identity shifts. 
In this week's episode, Rebecca,

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an adoptee, shares her 
heartbreaking and heart warming 

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DNA discovery. 
She reveals how she connected 

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with her biological mother and 
eventually identified her 

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father. 
Her story reveals how learning 

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the truth can bring a lot of 
pain, but beautiful 

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relationships too. 
Thank you for sharing your 

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story, Rebecca. 
My name is Rebecca, and I'm from

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southeastern Michigan. 
I was born here and I still live

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here, and I am currently 49 
years old. 

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I wanted to thank you so much 
for speaking with me today 

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because over the last 15 months,
your podcast has been a huge 

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source of comfort and education 
for me. 

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So I'm really honored that we 
get to talk today. 

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And I just wanted to thank you 
before I got started with my 

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story. 
Thank you. 

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I was born in 1976 and I was 
adopted at about seven months of

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age. 
It's kind of at the end of what 

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they call the baby scoop era. 
And I didn't know this at the 

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time, but my biological mother 
was young. 

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She was 18 years old when I was 
born and she didn't have a lot 

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of resources or options. 
But what I did know growing up, 

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I did know that I was adopted 
and I have a older adopted 

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brother who I got along with 
well. 

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And both of us were the only two
children of our parents growing 

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up. 
And my mom and dad did tell us 

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from an early age that we were 
adopted. 

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I don't necessarily remember 
being told, but I do remember 

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always knowing. 
Being that it was a closed 

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adoption in Michigan in the 
1970s, we didn't have any 

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information about the 
circumstances of either one of 

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our births or families. 
So we just were kind of raised 

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with this narrative that we were
chosen and we were gifts given 

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to our parents. 
My adoptive parents, who I'll 

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call mom and dad because that's 
how I think of them, had kind of

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these traumatic stories for how 
they were unable to have 

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children. 
My dad was drafted into the 

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Vietnam were right before he and
my mom's relationship became 

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serious. 
So he was drafted he was gone 

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for about 13 months. 
They wrote letters, they fell in

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love when he came home. 
They got married. 

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And my mom was only 22 years old
when she was diagnosed with 

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ovarian cancer, had to have a 
full hysterectomy and was unable

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to have children. 
And they both had these radical 

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conversions into Christianity. 
They both became ordained 

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pastors, and they both started 
pursuing our adoption. 

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And so growing up, I used to 
hear these stories, like spoken 

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from the pulpit of our church. 
So like my and my brother's 

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adoption became like a story of 
God's goodness. 

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So it was like even more than 
the usual, like you're a gift to

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our family. 
It's like you were hand chosen 

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by God, dropped into our family.
What did you think of that at 

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the time? 
I mean, I imagine as a child you

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probably accepted it, but I'm 
I'm. 

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Curious. 
I remember I was always 

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embarrassed by the attention. 
I am not a extroverted person 

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that likes being in the 
limelight so to speak, so I 

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disliked the public stories for 
that reason. 

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I didn't question too much this 
whole gift idea at the time. 

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I didn't feel one way or another
about it because I didn't know 

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how else I could feel. 
I do know that my parents, they 

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were never given any kind of 
education or support when they 

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adopted my brother and I. 
They, they were just kind of 

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handed these two kids and at 
least they were told you do need

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to tell them they're adopted, 
but they didn't have any 

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resources. 
They weren't given any 

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literature. 
They weren't given any follow 

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up. 
There was no like 

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recommendations for therapy for 
my brother and I. 

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So my parents, and to this day, 
I do truly believe that they 

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think that we were blank slates 
and that God, I guess, quote UN 

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quote, somehow assimilated us. 
I don't know how else to to 

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really put it because part part 
of my story does involve quite a

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bit of religious, it was a high 
control religious childhood that

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I had. 
So I've had to sort of 

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deconstruct and unpack a lot of 
that as an adult. 

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And trying to disentangle this 
God idea with my adoption has 

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been difficult because the two 
were so closely intermingled. 

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So it's like they went hand in 
hand. 

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And so as an adult, that's been 
a challenge for me to try to 

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disentangle the two different 
ideas from each other. 

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So I didn't like the public 
stories that I heard and sort of

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feeling like a a fish on display
in my family. 

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But other than that, my mom and 
dad are very loving, very kind 

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to people. 
I had a happy childhood. 

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Our adoptions, they despite the 
sort of public knowledge of our 

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adoptions, they were not 
discussed in our home. 

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There was a very clear feeling 
that it, it made in particular 

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my, my mom very uncomfortable. 
I could tell it, it made her sad

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or it grieved her to think about
her infertility. 

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And I'm just guessing here, but 
I, I always got the impression 

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that she was very uncomfortable 
when it would be brought up 

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because I don't think she liked 
to think about it. 

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She did recently tell me that 
she throughout all those years, 

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she was kind of tormented by the
whole idea that one day my 

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brother or I, our pictures would
be on the back of a milk carton.

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I don't know if you know that in
the 70s and maybe the early 

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80's, the pictures of missing 
children would be on your milk 

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cartoons. 
So I think my mom had in 

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particular had this fear that 
one of my biological parents 

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were going to find out where I 
was and come, get, come, come 

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retake us. 
So it wasn't necessarily that 

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she was worried about how you 
were relinquished or came to be 

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placed for adoption, it was more
that maybe the parents would be 

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looking for you in in some way. 
I think so. 

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And, you know, the circumstances
of my adoption were different 

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than my brother's. 
He was immediately relinquished 

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at birth, and he spent a total 
of two to three weeks in foster 

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care while the adoption was 
being worked out. 

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And then my parents received him
in their custody when he was 

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about 3 weeks old. 
My situation this, this was all 

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I knew growing up was that my 
mom and dad were called the week

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I was born by Catholic Social 
Services. 

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That's who I I was adopted 
through. 

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They were called and told that I
had been born and my gender, but

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then my placement kept getting 
postponed. 

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So my parents were waiting and 
waiting for weeks, calling, 

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hearing, you know, kind of vague
stories about paperwork not 

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being ready or, or things like 
that. 

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And then then they'd get a call 
and say, OK, she's ready when 

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they'd make an appointment for 
the next day to come in. 

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And then they'd get a call back 
saying, never mind. 

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And at one point in these many 
months, my mom and dad told me 

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that they were told by the 
caseworker, I think, that my 

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biological mother had changed 
her mind and had come to the 

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foster home, picked me up and 
left. 

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And so I think that happened 
maybe twice and kind of a funny 

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story, but during this time, so 
this was in late 1976 and early 

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1977, my parents were pouring a 
concrete slab in the backyard. 

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And they had written their names
in the concrete. 

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And you know, my father's name 
and my mother's name and my 

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brother's name. 
And then there was a question 

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mark underneath it. 
And then they they dated the the

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thing. 
And then so I grew up in this 

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home my whole life, like, and 
every once in a while I'd pop 

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back and take a look at the 
little question mark, trace it 

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with my finger. 
Interesting. 

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Yeah, that does make. 
Sense then more about like why 

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your mom was worried right was 
because it it it wasn't as 

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smooth to to adopt you as as 
your brother. 

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Possibly. 
And I, and I just thought of 

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that right now that that might 
have been the reason why she was

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concerned or anxious about that.
OK, so I didn't know anything 

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00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:50,200
about adoption. 
I didn't know anybody who had 

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been adopted outside of my 
brother. 

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00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:57,160
But somehow I I did know that in
Michigan when you were 18 years 

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00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:02,720
old you were allowed to look in 
your adoption records for non 

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00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:07,560
identifying information. 
When I turned 18, I called and 

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00:13:07,560 --> 00:13:11,800
they sent me two pages of typed 
non identifying information 

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00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:15,280
about my biological mother and 
her family. 

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I was also sent a what's what 
was called a parental consent 

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00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:25,320
form, which which means that at 
some point in the previous 18 

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00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:29,640
years, my biological mother had 
come back to the adoption agency

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and left behind her identifying 
information. 

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For me. 
That was surprising because two 

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00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:39,200
years previously, my brother had
done the same thing. 

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He had gone to look in his 
adoption records and he didn't 

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00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:44,840
receive anything like that. 
And I didn't even know anything 

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00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:50,440
like that existed. 
So when I received my biological

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00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:55,840
mother's name and her address, I
I was still living at home. 

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00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:59,120
I was going to college, but I 
was still living with my mom and

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00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:02,560
dad, and they were very 
uncomfortable with the idea that

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00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:07,920
my biological mother would know 
my name, my first and last name,

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00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:10,120
and that she would also know our
address. 

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00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:18,120
So I remember they required me 
to use a post office box of a 

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00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:21,200
friend of theirs, and I was not 
allowed to use my last name in 

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00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:23,440
any correspondence with my 
mother. 

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00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:28,120
It was my biological mother. 
And now when I'm thinking back 

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00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:30,920
on that, I do see that as very 
controlling. 

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00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:36,920
And it probably is the reason 
that I actually waited 10 years 

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00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:41,960
to meet my biological mother. 
She lived 45 minutes away from 

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00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:44,600
us. 
But I was so terrified at the 

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00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:50,120
idea of upsetting my mom in 
particular that I wouldn't meet 

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00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:53,440
her in person or even talked to 
her on the phone. 

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So we exchanged letters for 
about 10 years through the mail.

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00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:02,960
Yeah, it, it was a wild feeling,
that first letter I received 

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00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:06,160
from her. 
It contained a few pictures. 

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00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:12,880
And I can still, 30 years later,
I can still see like those pages

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00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:16,920
in my mind, like a photograph. 
And I'll never forget her second

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00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:19,520
paragraph. 
So she introduced herself. 

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00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:24,320
The second paragraph of the 
letter she was explaining she 

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00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:28,440
was young and she said that my 
biological father was a very 

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00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:32,440
painful subject. 
She did not know him very well 

223
00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:37,560
but had been on a few dates with
him and was really starting to 

224
00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:40,480
like him. 
When she found out she was 

225
00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:47,360
pregnant and as soon as she told
him he denied responsibility, he

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00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:51,160
was upset. 
He immediately broke off the 

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00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:55,120
relationship with her and 
refused to have anything more to

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00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:58,400
do with her. 
And she told me his full name, 

229
00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:03,400
his first, middle and last name.
She told me that his age, he was

230
00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:08,120
26 years old, she said, which I 
remember disturbed me at the 

231
00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:10,800
time. 
And then for the next 30 years, 

232
00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:15,320
you know, a 26 year old man and 
a 17 year old girl. 

233
00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:19,400
I, I, you know, that's 
definitely illegal. 

234
00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:23,760
Now, I don't know about the 70s,
but that really bothered me. 

235
00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:26,280
I got the impression that it was
a painful subject. 

236
00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:30,440
And of course, I immediately 
learned that he knew of me and 

237
00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:32,560
had rejected me at the 
beginning. 

238
00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:35,040
So at age 18, I get all this 
information. 

239
00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:40,880
I got more than I expected in, 
you know, a name of my mother 

240
00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:44,840
and being able to potentially 
grow that relationship. 

241
00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:49,720
And I just kind of put away this
idea of really ever knowing my 

242
00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:53,400
father. 
So during that 10 year period 

243
00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:57,120
where you're emailing back and 
forth or not emailing, writing 

244
00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:01,720
letters, physical letters, back 
and forth with your biological 

245
00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:04,520
mother, is she pushing to meet 
you? 

246
00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:06,200
Has she? 
She expressed that she wants to 

247
00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:11,920
talk to you and see you. 
She was extremely respectful. 

248
00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:16,680
She was making it clear to me 
that she wanted whatever I was 

249
00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:22,319
able to give and I felt very 
safe with her. 

250
00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:28,160
She had married at some point a 
man who had three children, and 

251
00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:30,800
she never had any more 
biological children. 

252
00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:34,640
You do have this difficult 
piece, which is your your 

253
00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:39,440
biological father and learning 
that that was really painful for

254
00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:42,480
her and that it wasn't something
that he wanted. 

255
00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:46,280
What did you do with that? 
Did you have any desire to try 

256
00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:51,040
to reach out to him anyway? 
I was reading between the lines 

257
00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:55,360
and I was kind of forming this 
opinion that he probably wasn't 

258
00:17:55,360 --> 00:17:57,600
someone that I needed in my 
life. 

259
00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:01,920
It's hard for me to remember 
because it was 30 years ago now,

260
00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:07,720
but I was primarily interested 
to know maybe if I had 

261
00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:11,000
biological siblings. 
I knew I did not have them on my

262
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:13,920
mother's side, but I wanted to 
know if I had them on his side. 

263
00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:18,840
So 30 years ago there was no 
Facebook, but I I used to Google

264
00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:22,920
his name. 
I used to look online to see if 

265
00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:28,280
I could figure out and he had a 
fairly common name, a fully 

266
00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:32,280
German name. 
So at this point I was told that

267
00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:35,880
I was half German. 
This is a little interesting 

268
00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:41,120
side note about my ethnicity is 
one of the things that'll factor

269
00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:45,480
into my surprise that I had 
later on in life was I was told 

270
00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:50,960
growing up that I was Polish. 
And coincidentally my adoptive 

271
00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:54,760
parents are Polish as well. 
And I used to think that was 

272
00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:58,920
just a beautiful coincidence. 
And I really, I really embraced 

273
00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:01,480
that. 
And I had Polish grandparents. 

274
00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:06,200
I participated in all the family
traditions, the cooking, the the

275
00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:12,560
festivals, the different music. 
I, I kind of felt like this was 

276
00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:15,440
like a beautiful little gift 
that I would be the same 

277
00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:18,920
ethnicity coincidentally as my 
adoptive family. 

278
00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:27,760
And when I was 18 and I got the 
non identifying paperwork, the 

279
00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:33,240
non identifying paperwork stated
that I was French and German and

280
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:37,920
that that hurt. 
That was kind of like a knife 

281
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,320
through the chest. 
And I looked at my parents and 

282
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:47,080
my mom started laughing, not 
cruelly but kind of like an oops

283
00:19:47,120 --> 00:19:51,440
laugh, and said, I think we must
have mixed up you and your 

284
00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:54,880
brother and. 
Oh wow. 

285
00:19:55,800 --> 00:20:02,040
I reeled from that for months, 
trying to reformulate myself as 

286
00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:04,800
not actually belonging in the 
way I thought I did. 

287
00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:08,520
It's the. 
Stories we tell ourselves, 

288
00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:11,440
right, that make up who we are. 
And so that was kind of the 

289
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:15,920
first chip away at what you knew
to be true. 

290
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:18,760
Yes, exactly. 
Well said. 

291
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:23,760
I just had identified so 
strongly as belonging because I 

292
00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:29,960
wanted to belong so badly. 
So that really hurt. 

293
00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:34,600
But my mom is so sweet. 
She's a very kind woman and we 

294
00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:37,840
kind of turned it into a little 
joke between the between us. 

295
00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:40,040
Like she would buy me little 
Eiffel Towers. 

296
00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:43,000
And when I turned 40, I took my 
mom to Paris. 

297
00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:46,440
So we had this beautiful 
vacation together out there and 

298
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:49,920
that was really special. 
Wow, that's a really incredible 

299
00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:53,800
way to turn that into something,
you know, meaningful. 

300
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:58,120
We try to, but my father's name 
being a common German name, I 

301
00:20:58,120 --> 00:21:02,400
couldn't really find him 
exactly. 

302
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:06,480
And then when I was about 28 
years old, one day I was just 

303
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:11,400
ready to meet my biological 
mother, and I called her for the

304
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:13,200
first time. 
I heard her voice. 

305
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,720
We had dinner. 
I, you know, for the first time 

306
00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:21,880
had some genetic mirroring. 
For the first time, I was able 

307
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:28,440
to see myself in someone. 
It was pretty shocking and at 

308
00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,040
that point we knew each other 
because we've been corresponding

309
00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:35,040
for so long. 
But it, it was a beautiful 

310
00:21:35,120 --> 00:21:38,280
evening getting to spend that 
that time with her. 

311
00:21:39,360 --> 00:21:43,680
After that, our relationship, 
you know, it's hard because 

312
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:45,800
she's not really that much older
than me. 

313
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:51,320
So she does really kind of feel 
like like a cousin, like an 

314
00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:53,880
older cousin. 
You know, we don't talk 

315
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:55,360
constantly. 
We don't see each other 

316
00:21:55,360 --> 00:21:59,720
constantly, but a couple times a
year we do a big check in and I 

317
00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:03,840
know that if I need anything, 
she's there and vice versa. 

318
00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:09,160
The years ticked by and I got 
married and my husband and I had

319
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:12,440
three daughters, these 
beautiful, amazing children. 

320
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:17,320
And I really started 
experiencing some adoption 

321
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:20,160
epiphany when my children were 
born. 

322
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:24,040
And I know that's very common 
for a lot of adoptees, but I 

323
00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:29,600
mean, you just cannot sit up all
night in a rocking chair with 

324
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:35,960
your newborn and not wonder who 
was taking care of you, if 

325
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:40,640
anyone. 
You can't go through those 

326
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:48,360
sleepless nights and the 24/7 
care for your child without 

327
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:53,640
understanding for the first time
that what had happened to you 

328
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:58,480
was really abnormal and really 
traumatic. 

329
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:03,120
I started to grieve around that 
time. 

330
00:23:03,120 --> 00:23:07,520
I started to realize that I 
probably had some pre verbal 

331
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:12,800
trauma and I I started to do a 
little more research. 

332
00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:17,400
I can't imagine what that must 
have been like while having a 

333
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,960
newborn and then all these 
feelings coming up while you're 

334
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,880
also in that kind of haze, 
right, of just those early 

335
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:27,760
newborn days. 
So. 

336
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,120
Yeah. 
And, you know, I wonder if I had

337
00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:36,920
never had children, if I would 
have ever been able to have 

338
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:41,760
realized what actually went down
when you're adopted, Like, 

339
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:47,160
people want to celebrate that 
and they want to trivialize your

340
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:51,320
loss. 
I've experimented with telling 

341
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:53,720
people I meet something 
different. 

342
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,280
If you're, you know, meeting 
somebody new and you're getting 

343
00:23:56,280 --> 00:24:01,080
to know each other and you tell 
that person you're adopted, 10 

344
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:03,600
times out of 10, they're like, 
that's awesome. 

345
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:09,120
That's wonderful. 
You know, I've started saying I 

346
00:24:09,120 --> 00:24:13,800
lost my mother when I was seven 
months old and they're 

347
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:15,840
horrified. 
It's tragic. 

348
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:20,880
It's worth grieving. 
And it's interesting because 

349
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,160
both of those things are true, 
100% true. 

350
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,360
But the loss is trivialized, I 
think people. 

351
00:24:27,360 --> 00:24:29,960
Often center the adoptive 
parents, right? 

352
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,720
So like they don't think about, 
they think about what your 

353
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:37,840
parents gained and not and what 
you gained in your parents, but 

354
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:41,160
not what you lost in that 
biological connection. 

355
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:44,600
Yeah. 
And I, you know, I don't expect 

356
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,520
people who have not gone through
this to understand the 

357
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:51,640
complexities of it. 
I've never expected that out of 

358
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:56,880
anyone in my life. 
But it's frustrating when even 

359
00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:00,720
people in sometimes it's called 
the adoption triad. 

360
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,800
It's frustrating when even 
people that close to me, whether

361
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:10,040
they're an adoptive parent or a 
biological parent or, you know, 

362
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:14,440
let's say a close relative, 
can't see that dysfunction and 

363
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,960
pain. 
It's such an isolating feeling 

364
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,480
'cause it's not a shared human 
experience. 

365
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,360
You know, adoption and DNA 
surprise. 

366
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,200
It's not like everything that 
all humans go through. 

367
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:31,200
Most humans are gonna experience
the death of a loved one. 

368
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:35,120
Most humans are going to 
experience some kind of health 

369
00:25:35,120 --> 00:25:37,960
crisis. 
Most humans, I don't know, 

370
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:42,800
they're not going to experience 
this relinquishment from their 

371
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:48,240
families or this like horrible 
surprise that completely changes

372
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:52,480
their identity. 
So I'd say it's just like, it's 

373
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,280
just very isolating and very 
lonely. 

374
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:59,800
Probably about the last 10 years
when there have been so many 

375
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:03,680
amazing support groups that have
popped up online. 

376
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:08,840
Because before that, you were 
just a little grain of sand in a

377
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:14,120
world of people who who you 
know, who are kept by their 

378
00:26:14,120 --> 00:26:16,880
families. 
And I can't possibly understand 

379
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:21,120
what that felt like to not know 
who you were or where you came 

380
00:26:21,120 --> 00:26:24,360
from. 
So my children are small. 

381
00:26:24,360 --> 00:26:30,360
I'm starting to realize that 
there was a lot more going on in

382
00:26:30,360 --> 00:26:34,120
me and a lot more that had 
happened that I was going to 

383
00:26:34,120 --> 00:26:38,840
need to work through if I wanted
to come out of all of this 

384
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:45,400
strong. 
And I also realized that my 

385
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:49,120
children were going to grow up 
and not know who their 

386
00:26:49,120 --> 00:26:52,800
grandparents were. 
And in all honesty, that had 

387
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,360
never occurred to me before. 
You really think it's adoption 

388
00:26:56,360 --> 00:27:02,480
is contained to your generation?
And I realized one day, like, my

389
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:08,440
kids aren't even going to know, 
you know, 25% of their DNA. 

390
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:15,440
So time went on and my kids were
growing, and I realized I had to

391
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,640
look for an opportunity to 
explain adoption to them. 

392
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:23,600
I felt a little resentful about 
this because I remember feeling 

393
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:29,320
like, why do I have to? 
Why do I have to try to explain 

394
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:31,000
this to them? 
Because I knew in particular, 

395
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,480
they were very close with my mom
and dad, and I knew in 

396
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:38,200
particular, when they realized 
that my mother had not given 

397
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,760
birth to me, I knew that was 
going to be an upsetting 

398
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,680
thought. 
And I was looking for an 

399
00:27:45,120 --> 00:27:47,080
opportunity to try to describe 
this. 

400
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,480
So I have three daughters and I 
think they were probably around 

401
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:57,080
7, five and three. 
And we were watching the Prince 

402
00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,360
of Egypt. 
And I don't know if you're 

403
00:27:59,360 --> 00:28:03,040
familiar with the, but it's the 
story of Moses from the Bible. 

404
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:07,160
It's a really beautifully 
animated movie. 

405
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:13,040
And all of a sudden, Moses's 
sister, or was it his mother, 

406
00:28:13,120 --> 00:28:16,120
put him in the basket and sailed
him down the river. 

407
00:28:16,120 --> 00:28:18,240
And Pharaoh's wife picked him 
up. 

408
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,040
And I paused the movie because I
got like, goosebumps. 

409
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,720
And I paused the movie. 
And I'm like, girls, did you 

410
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,320
just see what had happened? 
That's something called adoption

411
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:33,840
when, you know, a mom can't 
raise her baby for a lot of 

412
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:38,880
different reasons. 
And so another mom steps in and 

413
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:42,160
it was such an interesting 
moment because the younger two 

414
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:48,080
were probably too young, but my 
7 year old was huge eyes trying 

415
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:52,240
to understand what that meant. 
And she's looking at me. 

416
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:57,880
And she said, well, if you 
didn't grow in Grammy's stomach,

417
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,000
she said, where did you come 
from? 

418
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,960
And it's such a simple question.
And it was easy to answer 

419
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,360
because they did know my 
biological mother, but they knew

420
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:14,720
her as someone named Gigi. 
And they never questioned who 

421
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:16,520
she was. 
I think they probably thought 

422
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:18,520
she was a family friend at that 
point. 

423
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:22,120
So it was very easy for me to 
say, you know, I grew in Gigi's 

424
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,360
stomach, but she was very young 
and couldn't raise me. 

425
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:29,000
And so once we kind of got over 
that hurdle with the girls, they

426
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,840
kind of took it at face value 
from then on. 

427
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,560
And I was glad that I didn't 
wait to tell them because I 

428
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:37,640
didn't want to have the same 
problem on my hands that 

429
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:41,480
somebody who doesn't tell their 
adopted child to later in life 

430
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:42,880
would have on their hands with 
that. 

431
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,480
But once I told the girls I felt
kind of free every once in a 

432
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:48,840
while to discuss my adoption 
with them. 

433
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:54,040
And then we entered 6th grade 
with our oldest child and she 

434
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,800
started having to do the family 
tree projects at school. 

435
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:03,680
And man, those bothered me 
because I had this nebulous 

436
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,080
biology that we knew nothing 
about. 

437
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:10,120
They really focused on my 
husband's family and his 

438
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:14,120
ethnicity and celebrated. 
And my husband is Middle 

439
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:21,040
Eastern, so the the girls really
got into bringing in like Middle

440
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,880
Eastern food. 
And every time I went to the 

441
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:28,040
presentations, it was just all 
about my husband's family. 

442
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:32,000
So I went through that 6th grade
with my oldest and went through 

443
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,160
that exact same experience with 
my middle child. 

444
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,920
And then 18 months ago I went 
through that with my youngest 

445
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:46,600
and I'd had it and I'm going to 
back up 10 years before I 

446
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:48,600
explain what I did 18 months 
ago. 

447
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:53,400
So 10 years ago I was having 
some health problems and I heard

448
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:57,480
about 23andMe that could give a 
little bit of direction. 

449
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,840
And obviously I didn't, I, I 
didn't have half of my medical 

450
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:04,400
history. 
And thank God I did have my 

451
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:10,320
maternal medical history by that
time because Melanoma ran in my 

452
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:14,440
maternal family. 
My biological mother told me 

453
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,160
when I was 18 years old and I 
started getting yearly skin 

454
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,560
checks and I have been diagnosed
twice with Melanoma. 

455
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:25,800
So if I did not know and I had 
not been getting those checks, 

456
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,040
that very easily could have been
fatal very quickly. 

457
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,800
So I felt grateful about that. 
But I felt very disturbed and 

458
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,640
not knowing my paternal 
information. 

459
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:42,240
So 10 years ago I did a 23 Andme
test, not thinking at all about 

460
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:49,240
the ancestry portion because I 
already knew what I'd find and I

461
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:53,960
didn't want to be found by 
someone who didn't want me. 

462
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:59,080
So I kept my profile private. 
I had absolutely no interest in 

463
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:05,400
tangling with people who didn't 
want me, but I was interested in

464
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:11,080
the ethnicity breakdown and I 
was extremely surprised to find 

465
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:15,280
out that I was considered to be 
25% Italian. 

466
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,600
I didn't see it in myself. 
I wouldn't have thought. 

467
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,680
I've kind of red hair and light 
skinned freckles. 

468
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:29,600
I'm a skin cancer survivor and 
I'm thinking Italian. 

469
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:34,080
Like great. 
I'm not seeing any German and I 

470
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:38,560
am seeing a big 50% French. 
So like the French portion? 

471
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:43,040
Biological mother's side. 
Yes, so, so that's looking 

472
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,160
correct. 
And then I concentrated on the 

473
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:52,440
health information and then over
time I lost that login info, so 

474
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:54,520
I could never go back in and 
look at it again. 

475
00:32:56,120 --> 00:33:01,840
I went 10 years thinking I had 
this mystery Italian ethnicity, 

476
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,720
not really understanding where 
it came from. 50% French and 

477
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:11,560
then 25% like mixed European. 
And so 18 months ago, when my 

478
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:16,480
youngest child was doing her 
family tree project, I was like,

479
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,040
you know what? 
I'm going to test on ancestry 

480
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:25,600
and see what was going on. 
And looking back, I think I had 

481
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:29,200
finally gotten to the place in 
my life where like, I was ready 

482
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:32,720
for a confrontation. 
I, I don't know how else to say 

483
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:34,160
it. 
I mean, maybe confrontation is 

484
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:38,120
not the right word, but I feel 
like I was ready to be 

485
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:44,080
acknowledged. 
I was old enough I, I felt like 

486
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:46,440
I could handle a secondary 
rejection. 

487
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:51,840
I felt like it was time to 
acknowledge myself instead of 

488
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:53,760
hiding. 
I felt like I had been hiding 

489
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:59,160
before when I took the 23andMe 
test, too afraid to take it off 

490
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,760
of private. 
I had like this really 

491
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:06,880
complicated need to face the 
person or the family who thought

492
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:09,239
they got away with it, so to 
speak. 

493
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:13,159
I didn't have any of those 
conscious thoughts at the time. 

494
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,320
I was just annoyed at this 
family tree project. 

495
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:21,199
So I did my ancestry test and I 
sent it away and I didn't think 

496
00:34:21,199 --> 00:34:24,960
that much about it because I was
pretty sure that I was gearing 

497
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,480
up for some kind of showdown or 
confrontation. 

498
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:34,120
That's how it felt to me. 
So 1 morning I was taking my 

499
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,360
kids to the zoo and their 
friends, and they're all 

500
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:40,520
teenagers at this point. 
It was last summer, so I think 

501
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,639
it was the end of August last 
year. 

502
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:50,800
I got the e-mail that my results
were in and I didn't feel any 

503
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:54,000
trepidation. 
I was just sort of ready, but I 

504
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:55,600
really didn't have time to go 
through the e-mail. 

505
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:57,640
I was like running late. 
I had to be out the door. 

506
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,480
I opened it. 
I clicked on everything real 

507
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:04,400
fast. 
I ignore the ethnicity and I 

508
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:10,800
clicked through to the matches 
and the letters swam around in 

509
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,040
front of my eyes because none of
it made any sense. 

510
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:19,360
I had four close family members.
My top match. 

511
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:25,000
I recognized the name as being 
my biological mother's sister. 

512
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,360
I've not met anybody in my 
biological mother's family. 

513
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:33,160
Even though I've been in reunion
with her for 30 years. 

514
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:37,640
No one in her family has ever 
reached out to me. 

515
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:42,120
No aunts, no uncles, no cousins.
I did have an opportunity to 

516
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:46,720
meet her parents one time, but 
outside of that I don't have any

517
00:35:46,720 --> 00:35:49,040
connections with her family 
outside of her. 

518
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:53,240
It felt kind of nice to see my 
aunt's name at the top of the 

519
00:35:53,240 --> 00:35:57,040
list because I never had 
confirmation that my biological 

520
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:58,840
mother was actually the right 
person. 

521
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:05,520
So even though I saw myself in 
her, I never was positive it she

522
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:08,680
was actually my my mother. 
So here I had the confirmation 

523
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:13,120
that she was the next three 
names, all sharing the same 

524
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:17,840
amount of DNA as my maternal 
aunt. 

525
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:22,400
I had never heard of any of 
these people before, and two of 

526
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,920
them had the same last name. 
I look down to the cousins 

527
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:27,960
range. 
You know, the the ones that are 

528
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:31,480
could be first cousins. 
There's like 12 people there in 

529
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:36,280
that first cousins category and 
nine of them have the same last 

530
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:37,440
name. 
Also. 

531
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:41,960
I've got this last name stuck in
my head and I'm reeling, but I 

532
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:45,480
have to go out the door. 
So like, I'm dizzy, I close my 

533
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:49,360
computer, I get in the car, I go
pick up one of my daughter's 

534
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:52,440
friends, and we go to the zoo. 
And, like, my heart is pounding.

535
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:58,120
It's the weirdest day ever. 
I'm stumbling around the Detroit

536
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:04,160
Zoo watching, you know, four 
teenagers texting my husband. 

537
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:08,160
Like, what is going on? 
Like, I don't understand this 

538
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:11,440
not having anything more than, 
like, 30 seconds. 

539
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:16,880
Like if we stopped at like let's
say to look at some lizards 

540
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:21,680
having like 30 seconds off to 
the side to like try to Google a

541
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:26,560
name. 
I'm trying to figure out these 

542
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,640
three top matches, how old they 
are. 

543
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:33,480
Because the range that ancestry 
was giving me for the son of 

544
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:37,040
Morgans were one of those like 6
people that could be 

545
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:44,840
grandparent, aunt, uncle or half
sibling or or full nephew or 

546
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,240
niece or whatever. 
So I'm trying to figure out what

547
00:37:47,240 --> 00:37:50,000
are the ages of these people? 
Is it my grandparent? 

548
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,240
I'm I'm asking my husband. 
I'm like, do I have any 

549
00:37:52,240 --> 00:37:54,560
grandchildren? 
He's like, no, what's wrong with

550
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:56,200
you? 
I'm like, I'm so confused. 

551
00:37:56,200 --> 00:38:00,040
I am like, could this be my 
grandson? 

552
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:05,400
He's like, no. 
So at some point of the day, 

553
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:07,840
I've got the Ancestry app on my 
phone. 

554
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:12,040
At some point in the day I 
realized I didn't even look at 

555
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:15,120
the ethnicity, right? 
So let's see what's going on 

556
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:21,400
with this Italian bit. 
And lo and behold, I'm 50% 

557
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:28,320
French, 25% mixed European, and 
25% Levant. 

558
00:38:28,720 --> 00:38:34,320
Italian has disappeared and been
replaced with Southern Levant 

559
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:40,080
and I thought I knew Levant was 
Middle Eastern but I didn't 

560
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:44,520
know. 
So I'm Googling that and I'm For

561
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:47,240
those who might not know, the 
southern Levant is a region that

562
00:38:47,240 --> 00:38:53,120
encompasses Palestine, parts of 
Israel and southern Syria and 

563
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,520
Lebanon. 
And at this point my phone dies.

564
00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:59,160
So then I'm stranded in the 
Detroit Zoo with all the 

565
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:02,880
teenagers and no phone for 
several hours till I get home 

566
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:05,960
and I think I stayed up the 
entire night Googling and 

567
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:08,440
Googling until I found an 
obituary. 

568
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:13,720
And I know everybody says this 
but it had everybody's name in 

569
00:39:13,720 --> 00:39:17,400
it. 
Unfortunately there were three 

570
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:21,280
sons in the family that could 
have been my father. 

571
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,320
At this point I'm I'm 
understanding that two of the 

572
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:30,080
close matches were paternal ants
and 1 is probably my half 

573
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:37,160
brother. 
So for a couple of weeks I'm not

574
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:40,280
sure what to do. 
I'm just talking to my husband. 

575
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:44,320
I'm like sort of reeling. 
I'm making up. 

576
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:49,840
As I come to find out after 
listening to many of the stories

577
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:53,760
shared on your podcast, my brain
is like trying to jump to all 

578
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:59,480
these conclusions that don't 
involve anybody lying to me. 

579
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:02,120
That's such a good way to put 
that. 

580
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:04,440
That is such a good way to put 
that I. 

581
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:06,640
Couldn't. 
I'm thinking of all kinds of 

582
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:10,880
ways that this could have 
accidentally happened and not be

583
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:14,600
a lie or And then in the 
meantime I'm having a hard time 

584
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:19,680
believing any of it. 
So I do an ancestry test on all 

585
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:24,760
three of my daughters to try to 
get some extra confirmation. 

586
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:28,160
I didn't think it was a mistake,
I just needed some extra 

587
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:30,680
confirmation before I confronted
anybody. 

588
00:40:31,240 --> 00:40:33,280
Did you confront your biological
mother? 

589
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:38,160
It took me a couple of weeks and
we were busy and camping and 

590
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:48,160
doing some other things to even 
work up the courage to ask. 

591
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:54,360
And at the same time, I did not 
know who exactly was my father. 

592
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:59,560
Anyway, so I started joining 
the, the Facebook groups like 

593
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:02,520
the DNA detectives and things 
like that. 

594
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:04,280
And then I hear about search 
angels. 

595
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:06,440
I'd never heard about search 
angels before. 

596
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:08,480
I start thinking about 
contacting one. 

597
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:15,920
This was about 15 months ago. 
I, I contacted the the DNA Angel

598
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:20,440
and within 20 minutes they knew 
who my father was. 

599
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:23,160
And when I said, Are you sure? 
Are you sure? 

600
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:26,400
She's like, your matches do not 
get any better than this. 

601
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:28,120
I'm like, really? 
She's like, yes. 

602
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:35,800
And once I had his name is when 
I texted my biological mother 

603
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,640
and I didn't want to just call 
her and spring it on her. 

604
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:43,680
And I figured how she responded 
to like a litmus test would tell

605
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:48,960
me whether she knew this call 
was coming or not. 

606
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:52,680
So I just texted her and I said,
if you do you have a couple 

607
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:56,360
minutes, I want to talk to you 
about adna test I took. 

608
00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:02,640
So I figured if if I heard 
crickets, I would know. 

609
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:08,520
And she immediately said, sure, 
honey, whenever like you want to

610
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:11,240
call me. 
So I was like, well, how about 

611
00:42:11,240 --> 00:42:14,680
now? 
She was like, sure, I called her

612
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,960
and. 2. 
Seconds and she could tell she 

613
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:22,520
goes you sound really upset. 
What's wrong? 

614
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:26,200
And I just said. 
I took ADNA test. 

615
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:32,040
And do you know who this is? 
This name says he's my most 

616
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:34,600
likely my father. 
I'll never forget. 

617
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:36,520
I will never forget. 
I was actually in the car 

618
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:42,080
outside of the mall and I heard 
something soft drop to the 

619
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:45,240
ground, like somebody was 
holding clothing. 

620
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:50,800
And. 
I I've. 

621
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,960
Never. 
Heard my biological mother cry 

622
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:56,840
before. 
And you? 

623
00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:58,560
Know when people are mourning 
and they're. 

624
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:01,880
Crying, but it's that wailing 
sound like. 

625
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:11,520
I think it's called keening. 
Probably for a full. 60 to 90 

626
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:14,520
seconds. 
The Keening. 

627
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:19,760
Sound. 
That was coming out of her, one 

628
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:21,720
of the things. 
I had told myself was. 

629
00:43:21,720 --> 00:43:26,400
That maybe she had been 
assaulted and hadn't wanted to. 

630
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:28,880
And I know that's pretty common 
in these cases. 

631
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:33,560
That's something that people 
think, well, maybe, maybe she 

632
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:37,240
was raped and she didn't want to
say or didn't know. 

633
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:42,680
So while she's crying I'm 
thinking something horrible. 

634
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:43,920
Must have. 
Happened and I'm feeling. 

635
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:48,880
Horrible for. 
Having done any of. 

636
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:53,040
This the first words out of her 
mouth were he was my boyfriend, 

637
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:58,040
but she told me that they had 
broken up and had been broken up

638
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:01,400
when she had. 
Met who she. 

639
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:04,560
Thought was my biological 
father, and she remembered the 

640
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:09,880
date because it was New Year's 
Eve, their first date, and it 

641
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:10,640
was. 
Impossible. 

642
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:13,200
It would have had to have been. 
The longest pregnancy in the 

643
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:17,880
world for her ex-boyfriend to 
have been my father. 

644
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:22,680
And you know, to this day, 
that's that's still the story. 

645
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:25,120
Do you think? 
No, she believes. 

646
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:29,960
That I don't know. 
I really. 

647
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:34,440
Want to believe that it's 
really. 

648
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:38,360
Hard to understand what's. 
Like a true mistake and like 

649
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:41,880
what is an untruth? 
I I don't know. 

650
00:44:42,720 --> 00:44:44,680
I think especially I've heard a 
lot. 

651
00:44:44,720 --> 00:44:51,440
Around, I mean honestly from 
anytime really before the 80s or

652
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:57,680
90s, especially before the 90s 
that a lot of women. 

653
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:00,560
Or or. 
Girls, teenagers, they didn't 

654
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:07,080
know how cycles worked and, you 
know, ovulation and exactly 

655
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:11,200
where all the timing might be, 
you know, well, outside of that 

656
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:14,520
first. 
Letter where she described who 

657
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:17,720
my father was. 
She and I had only discussed him

658
00:45:17,720 --> 00:45:22,320
maybe one or two other times. 
This was not a topic that she 

659
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:25,440
enjoyed Speaking of. 
I didn't enjoy Speaking of it. 

660
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:28,240
I never doubted it. 
Not once. 

661
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:35,800
And at another point in time, 
when she had been discussing my 

662
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:39,160
biological father, she had said 
she had made some kind of 

663
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:45,200
reference that people didn't 
believe her, but she knew. 

664
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:49,240
Beyond a shadow of. 
A doubt who my father was and I 

665
00:45:49,240 --> 00:45:55,600
remember this and I remember 
thinking must have been hard to 

666
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:59,960
have been her in her position 
and unwed and pregnant and 

667
00:45:59,960 --> 00:46:04,000
dealing with trying to keep. 
Me but not having any. 

668
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:09,920
Support and then having people 
doubting who the father was and 

669
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:15,280
so. 
When she told me who my father 

670
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:17,680
was and then. 
Later on told me there was 

671
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:20,320
absolutely no doubt about who it
was. 

672
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:23,960
I really did believe it. 
I never once in my life ever 

673
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:26,640
questioned that maybe she was 
wrong. 

674
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:31,840
So when I'm on the phone having 
this conversation and she's. 

675
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:35,040
Shocked. 
Or appearing to be shocked and 

676
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:39,400
saying it's not possible because
that would have been the world's

677
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:42,240
longest pregnancy. 
And I'm just sitting there like 

678
00:46:42,240 --> 00:46:45,720
kind of just stunned. 
So I, I didn't know what to say.

679
00:46:45,720 --> 00:46:49,080
But then one thing that she kept
saying over and over again that 

680
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:55,520
just broke my heart to pieces. 
Was he meaning my actual 

681
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:59,720
biological father is such a 
better man. 

682
00:46:59,720 --> 00:47:04,080
He is such a better man. 
He never would have let us be 

683
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:07,120
separated. 
He never would have let us be 

684
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:09,680
separated. 
And she was crying and I was 

685
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:12,160
crying. 
Our conversation did not last 

686
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:14,200
long. 
And I I had to get off the phone

687
00:47:14,240 --> 00:47:18,880
because I just, I could not. 
And then I mean to be. 

688
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:21,840
Honest ever since. 
Then my biological mother has 

689
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:26,720
has been a little. 
Standoffish and. 

690
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:32,160
I know she's, I don't know if 
embarrassed is the right word or

691
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:36,760
I'm not sure. 
So that's been like something 

692
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:42,200
new to have to try to figure out
how to navigate all of that. 

693
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:47,080
Once I had confirmation that she
had had a relationship with him,

694
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:50,840
even though it wasn't being 
acknowledged that it was in the 

695
00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:55,720
correct timing, I started. 
I didn't know what to do, and I 

696
00:47:55,720 --> 00:48:01,600
started listening to podcasts 
and I started trying to figure 

697
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:05,880
out if I was going to do 
anything with this information. 

698
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:09,080
And it's kind of crazy because I
had never my whole life ever 

699
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:13,720
thought I would ever know my 
father initially. 

700
00:48:13,720 --> 00:48:18,040
I had no interest. 
Whatsoever in contacting his 

701
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:23,880
family, I kind of thought if 
they saw me on Ancestry and sent

702
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:31,120
me a message that would, I would
possibly, you know, attempt to 

703
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:33,480
have a conversation. 
In reality, I don't think very 

704
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:36,640
much time passed at all, but it 
felt like a long period of time 

705
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:39,320
that I was kind of waiting to be
noticed. 

706
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:45,200
Probably maybe only three weeks,
maybe 4 weeks had passed. 

707
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:51,320
I had already been in therapy 
for anxiety and I started to 

708
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:54,760
discuss this obviously with my 
therapist and what am I going to

709
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:58,760
do and what should I do. 
And I flip flop pretty quickly 

710
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:04,480
from having no interest 
whatsoever in reaching out to 

711
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:09,760
thinking that it probably would 
be good for my mental health if 

712
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:14,480
if I was acknowledged because 
that was the whole reason in the

713
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:19,320
1st place that I had done. 
The DNA. 

714
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:25,200
Test as I was ready to like sort
of be known I was very hesitant 

715
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:30,200
I didn't want to upset a family 
that I knew nothing about I 

716
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:32,840
didn't want to mess up any 
relationships. 

717
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:36,720
I didn't want to intrude into 
something. 

718
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:40,680
I started listening to podcasts 
and I started noticing that I 

719
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:44,000
hesitate saying this because I 
don't actually know if this is 

720
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:48,800
true, but I felt like when men 
were finding out, they weren't 

721
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:52,800
hesitating. 
I felt like they weren't 

722
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:58,200
spending as much time worried 
about upsetting other people. 

723
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:07,200
And I felt like a lot of times. 
Women were more afraid to upset 

724
00:50:07,720 --> 00:50:11,480
other people and weren't as 
concerned with themselves. 

725
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:15,200
And so after some time, I 
realized that I probably needed 

726
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:21,280
to work on taking up space in 
the world, you know? 

727
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:26,480
And so my 4 closest matches, 
three of them hadn't logged on 

728
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:32,920
to Ancestry in over a year, But 
the one Ant I could see was 

729
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:36,480
pretty active. 
She hadn't logged on since I had

730
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:41,120
been revealed. 
But one day, just kind of on a 

731
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:43,840
whim, I just decided to reach 
out to her. 

732
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:48,040
I explained my adoption. 
I didn't want to just come right

733
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:52,720
out and say what I thought. 
I kind of beat around the Bush a

734
00:50:52,720 --> 00:50:56,200
little bit. 
She was pretty businesslike, but

735
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:59,600
she did end up responding maybe 
six hours later, and she was 

736
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:03,360
very businesslike. 
She immediately wanted to know 

737
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:06,960
why I hadn't put a photo up on 
my profile. 

738
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:10,080
And she wanted to know what my 
mother's name was. 

739
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:13,720
And I, I didn't know why she 
wanted to know these things 

740
00:51:13,720 --> 00:51:16,960
necessarily. 
So I was being a little cagey 

741
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:19,600
myself 'cause I didn't feel 
safe. 

742
00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:21,800
I, I didn't know. 
Yeah, you don't know. 

743
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:25,240
And then you have the. 
History of rejection from who 

744
00:51:25,240 --> 00:51:29,800
you thought was your biological 
father's family, right? 

745
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:33,400
And I had no idea what I would. 
Be encountering or walking into 

746
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:37,360
and what type of situation. 
So she and I corresponded, I 

747
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:42,000
want to say, for about a day, a 
day and a half, but it was all 

748
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:47,720
very, very businesslike. 
And finally, when I revealed my 

749
00:51:47,720 --> 00:51:51,880
biological mother's first name, 
her next message? 

750
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:54,280
To me. 
I'll never forget it. 

751
00:51:57,240 --> 00:51:59,280
My husband was with me and he 
burst into. 

752
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:10,320
Tears because she said. 
My dear niece, I am so sorry 

753
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:16,120
that none of us knew that you 
were born so. 

754
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:21,080
I know now that she had been 
corresponding with my father. 

755
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:24,840
She had been texting with him 
and he had been asking. 

756
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:29,880
For. 
My mother's name, and as soon as

757
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:33,040
he had it, he acknowledged the 
paternity. 

758
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:36,360
And I can't even describe to 
anyone on earth what it felt 

759
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:46,000
like when. 
She said those words to me, my 

760
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:47,760
therapist called it being 
claimed. 

761
00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:53,040
And I didn't know that that's 
what that was, and the relief I 

762
00:52:53,040 --> 00:53:01,920
felt that I wasn't, you know, 
going to be left adrift again, 

763
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:03,280
you know? 
That very same. 

764
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:05,760
Day She asked for my phone 
number. 

765
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:08,720
She gave it to my biological 
father. 

766
00:53:08,720 --> 00:53:11,760
He. 
He texted. 

767
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:16,600
Me introducing. 
Himself, It was very sweet the 

768
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:19,840
way he said it. 
He was only a year older than my

769
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:23,360
biological mother, so he was 19 
years old when I was born. 

770
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:26,840
We spoke on the phone for, I 
want to say at least an hour 

771
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:31,480
that same day. 
And for the last 15 months we've

772
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:37,040
been in reunion. 
He's lives 1/2 hour from my 

773
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:39,480
family. 
He's delighted to have more 

774
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:45,080
grandchildren. 
He's been at every swim meet and

775
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:48,120
dance competition for my 
daughters. 

776
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:55,880
He is married and his wife has 
been wonderful to my kids and to

777
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:58,200
me. 
He already has a blended family 

778
00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:03,200
so his wife had three children 
and he has two children from his

779
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:06,440
first marriage. 
So I do have 1/2 brother and a 

780
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:13,440
half sister and when I found out
I had a sister I cannot, I 

781
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:19,400
cannot. 
I have felt so alone my whole 

782
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:22,160
life. 
Never dreamed I would have a 

783
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:24,080
sister. 
You know, families are 

784
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:28,800
complicated, we all have 
dysfunction and there's some 

785
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:33,600
broken relationships in my my 
newly found family, paternal 

786
00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:40,800
family, but even outside of 
those, it's just been a 

787
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:46,240
beautiful experience so far. 
So my sister is 10 years 

788
00:54:46,240 --> 00:54:48,520
younger. 
Than I am and my brother is 15 

789
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:52,280
years younger. 
I would do it all over again 

790
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:54,440
just for the chance to meet 
them. 

791
00:54:54,720 --> 00:54:59,600
It's been that beautiful. 
Yeah, and I'm choking. 

792
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:02,480
Of Oh yeah, that's I. 
Mean it. 

793
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:08,160
Yeah, I'm sort of speechless 
because you went so long. 

794
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:14,200
I think what's standing out to 
me is how much of your story is 

795
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:18,200
shaped by the stories we tell 
ourselves, right? 

796
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:23,720
So you had the story of being 
adopted and being divinely 

797
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:28,880
created for your family, and 
then you had the story of your 

798
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:33,560
ethnicity, which shifted and 
then shifted again. 

799
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:38,920
And then you had this story of 
your biological father not 

800
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:41,800
wanting to be involved. 
And then you learn that's not 

801
00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:47,400
true if you own right. 
So I mean, how are you coping 

802
00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:54,720
with this continual evolution on
because all of. 

803
00:55:54,720 --> 00:55:58,760
Our stories change over time. 
But the foundation of your story

804
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:01,560
has changed. 
How are you managing that? 

805
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:05,960
Like continuous change, it's 
been, really. 

806
00:56:05,960 --> 00:56:10,120
Hard. 
And you know, I, I haven't. 

807
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:13,520
Talked very much about. 
My father and I've I've 

808
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:17,200
mentioned my mother. 
They're wonderful people and my 

809
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:20,160
father died unexpectedly five 
years ago. 

810
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:25,960
Traumatically and unexpectedly 
and I. 

811
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:29,840
Loved my father very, very much.
I don't know. 

812
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:31,640
What he would be thinking or 
feeling. 

813
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:37,520
Knowing that I'm in reunion with
my biological father, it's hard 

814
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:39,240
for me. 
To know because. 

815
00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:44,600
He never communicated any 
feelings about that whatsoever. 

816
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:52,320
One of my therapists said to me 
that a parent provides, protects

817
00:56:52,680 --> 00:57:00,920
and prepares and. 
It's undeniable to me who my. 

818
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:04,120
Parents are than the people who 
loved and raised me. 

819
00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:07,680
I mean my adoptive parents, they
basically match that 

820
00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:10,720
description. 
And honestly, what do I wish? 

821
00:57:10,720 --> 00:57:14,720
I mean I wish more than anything
that I was my parents biological

822
00:57:14,720 --> 00:57:17,360
child. 
I don't know. 

823
00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:19,120
If I've ever heard anyone say 
that. 

824
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:22,960
That's powerful. 
I can't. 

825
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:26,800
Reconcile that. 
Wish with the actual facts. 

826
00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:35,080
And so I'm also. 
Really unhappy with the state of

827
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:39,760
the adoption industry. 
I also have a lot of resentment,

828
00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:44,160
you know, knowing that. 
I was a wheel in. 

829
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:50,240
That system, knowing that it's 
centered 100% around adoptive 

830
00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:54,720
parents, needs knowing that. 
Like I was. 

831
00:57:54,720 --> 00:58:01,640
Commodified and sold and. 
Also. 

832
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:05,440
You know. 
Having parents that don't. 

833
00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:10,880
Have any interest in helping me 
heal from that or explore that 

834
00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:15,160
or take any accountability or 
responsibility or do any therapy

835
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:19,320
or any work. 
And so I feel kind of stuck 

836
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:22,880
it's. 
It's that whole matrix you. 

837
00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:27,440
Know you take the pill and you 
can't Unsee what you know, but 

838
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:30,880
you wish you could. 
So how do you move? 

839
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:34,880
Forward. 
With with love toward the people

840
00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:41,880
you you love, that you choose to
love, you know, does your 

841
00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:44,760
biological mother. 
Know that you've connected with 

842
00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:48,400
your biological father. 
And what does she think of that?

843
00:58:49,560 --> 00:58:50,680
Yes, she does. 
And. 

844
00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:53,520
Actually. 
We had to go through a. 

845
00:58:53,520 --> 00:58:57,840
Bit of an awkward. 
Situation where? 

846
00:58:57,840 --> 00:59:00,560
We were all. 
Together in a room. 

847
00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:04,080
And that was the one and only 
time, you know, my 2 biological 

848
00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:08,880
parents had been in the same 
place in 50 years. 

849
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:11,520
There's different factors in 
play. 

850
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:15,680
I would have liked privacy. 
That was not going to be given 

851
00:59:15,680 --> 00:59:20,240
to me because of spouses. 
So instead it was a bit of a 

852
00:59:20,240 --> 00:59:25,880
public spectacle that was really
difficult for me and I'm sure 

853
00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:28,000
for my biological mother as 
well. 

854
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:41,560
So she is aware and it it's just
her and my relationship, you 

855
00:59:41,560 --> 00:59:47,120
know, something is a little 
different right now and. 

856
00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:52,040
And I'm hoping we work. 
Through it, but it's it's not a 

857
00:59:52,040 --> 00:59:57,120
comfortable topic, so nobody. 
Wants to broach. 

858
00:59:57,120 --> 01:00:04,680
It so to speak, it's the sort of
like the best way I can think of

859
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:10,120
it is that I have this like 
mistrust of reality like I I 

860
01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:14,480
don't know what's true anymore. 
I don't know if if my 

861
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:18,360
perceptions of people, 
especially the key players in 

862
01:00:18,360 --> 01:00:23,520
the story over the last. 40 some
years, I don't know if they're 

863
01:00:23,520 --> 01:00:27,960
true anymore. 
I don't know if I am. 

864
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:32,480
You know who I thought I was. 
I don't know what people think 

865
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:36,280
of me anymore in my family, like
let's say cousins and aunts and 

866
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:40,200
uncles. 
Like I had mentioned earlier, 

867
01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:44,920
very few people are interested 
in talking about this. 

868
01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:48,600
It it seems like a a dirty 
secret for some reason. 

869
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:50,840
You mentioned that your husband 
is middle. 

870
01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:54,080
Eastern So your daughters have 
that and now you, you do not. 

871
01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:57,640
Now you always have, but you 
know that you do too. 

872
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:02,000
How is that realization like? 
Was that a happy piece of this 

873
01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:05,360
puzzle? 
That was so interesting so. 

874
01:01:05,560 --> 01:01:08,640
The Middle Eastern ethnicity 
comes from my paternal 

875
01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:15,480
grandmother, and as I have met 
my aunts and the family members 

876
01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:20,000
on my paternal side, they all 
have said that she would have 

877
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:25,160
raised me, and she did not pass 
that long ago. 

878
01:01:26,040 --> 01:01:32,640
And of all the figures in this 
story, I've been dreaming about 

879
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:34,400
her. 
I think about her. 

880
01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:39,000
I oh, I wish I knew her, I 
really do. 

881
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:43,760
I kind of love her and I, I 
never got to meet her and she is

882
01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:46,040
the, she is my Middle Eastern 
relative. 

883
01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:48,440
I'm not sure what to do with 
that 25%. 

884
01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:51,520
I mean, I'm going through what 
everybody goes through in the 

885
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:54,280
situation. 
My face doesn't look like my 

886
01:01:54,280 --> 01:02:00,560
face anymore in the mirror. 
I never saw what I'm seeing now 

887
01:02:02,080 --> 01:02:03,920
now that I. 
Met aunts and. 

888
01:02:03,920 --> 01:02:08,040
Cousins I'm seeing these things 
that are just shocking and I 

889
01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:15,080
know that's the genetic mirror 
mirroring and it it some days it

890
01:02:15,080 --> 01:02:20,520
feels like no amount of time can
erase what was lost and then 

891
01:02:20,520 --> 01:02:22,280
other. 
Days I'm just. 

892
01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:27,560
Like in awe and wonder and so. 
I just wildly flip-flopped. 

893
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:32,000
And it probably has not been 
long enough for me to be fully 

894
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:36,640
calmed down and, you know, in a 
routine because this is still 

895
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:39,800
something that I think about for
the large portion of every 

896
01:02:39,800 --> 01:02:42,600
single day. 
What things have been helping 

897
01:02:42,600 --> 01:02:45,120
you to? 
Sort of integrate this new 

898
01:02:45,120 --> 01:02:48,200
reality. 
My husband. 

899
01:02:48,200 --> 01:02:53,600
'S been amazing, so considerate 
and it it it would have been 

900
01:02:53,600 --> 01:02:57,600
difficult without his support 
for me to have taken all the 

901
01:02:57,600 --> 01:03:00,320
steps that I took 'cause I just 
kept taking a little baby step 

902
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:04,680
after a baby step. 
To chip away at this therapy 

903
01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:08,920
definitely has been helping. 
What do you hope for in the 

904
01:03:08,920 --> 01:03:11,720
future? 
I was taught that part of what 

905
01:03:11,720 --> 01:03:14,400
comes with. 
Someone who has pre verbal 

906
01:03:14,400 --> 01:03:18,760
trauma and who was relinquished 
and went through all of that 

907
01:03:19,120 --> 01:03:25,520
like pain and separation. 
It's like we don't get to start 

908
01:03:25,520 --> 01:03:30,840
at neutral as infants, like we 
already start with trauma and it

909
01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:33,640
stays with us through our 
development and much longer. 

910
01:03:33,640 --> 01:03:36,960
And it's been pointed out to me 
that I have a really hard time 

911
01:03:37,480 --> 01:03:42,200
imagining the future. 
And it's been pointed out to me 

912
01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:48,920
that that's probably why. 
Because if I try to imagine if I

913
01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:50,520
try to. 
Imagine the future. 

914
01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:55,640
I'm immediately met with like a 
terrifying vision of, of 

915
01:03:55,880 --> 01:04:01,880
homelessness and various fears. 
And it's actually my husband 

916
01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:03,960
that pointed that out to me 
about 20 years ago. 

917
01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:08,400
Like, why can't you ever like 
sit and and plan for like 

918
01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:10,480
retirement? 
And I'm like, because I don't 

919
01:04:10,480 --> 01:04:14,280
feel like I'm going to get one, 
you know, And so it's really 

920
01:04:14,280 --> 01:04:19,040
hard for me to think future. 
What do I hope? 

921
01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:23,440
You know what I hope? 
I hope I continue to heal, and I

922
01:04:23,440 --> 01:04:27,080
hope that I continue to bring 
healing to other people. 

923
01:04:28,240 --> 01:04:29,960
That's what I hope. 
For I don't know what the. 

924
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:33,960
Relationships will look like I 
want to be a part of the good in

925
01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:34,480
the. 
World. 

926
01:04:35,960 --> 01:04:40,600
And I know that to get there, 
yeah, I have to, I have to walk 

927
01:04:40,600 --> 01:04:42,840
through some things that I'd 
rather not. 

928
01:04:44,680 --> 01:04:46,800
So. 
That's powerful and. 

929
01:04:46,800 --> 01:04:50,160
That's. 
More than enough, thank you. 

930
01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:53,160
What advice would you give a 
parent? 

931
01:04:53,160 --> 01:04:56,320
Who might be keeping Adna 
surprise from their child? 

932
01:04:57,880 --> 01:05:00,120
And so I have. 
Thought about this and. 

933
01:05:00,720 --> 01:05:07,560
While I don't think that my 
secret was kept on purpose, I'm 

934
01:05:07,560 --> 01:05:12,560
not sure, but I don't think it 
was, I still know that the 

935
01:05:12,560 --> 01:05:19,960
result is that the secret feels 
like a lie, and I think that the

936
01:05:19,960 --> 01:05:22,280
secrets have the exact same 
effect as a lie. 

937
01:05:23,160 --> 01:05:27,000
Trust is destabilized in the 
relationship and it's a massive 

938
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:31,800
blow to the relationship with 
the person or persons that is 

939
01:05:31,800 --> 01:05:34,960
keeping the truth from you. 
And I think it's hard, really 

940
01:05:34,960 --> 01:05:37,440
hard to recover from something 
like that. 

941
01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:42,440
I think it's a very grave blow 
to the relationship. 

942
01:05:42,600 --> 01:05:47,480
And I wanted to also add that 
the reason finding out earlier 

943
01:05:47,480 --> 01:05:52,360
in life is better in my opinion,
is because knowing and accepting

944
01:05:52,360 --> 01:05:56,800
the truth at a young age, I feel
like it's much easier because 

945
01:05:56,800 --> 01:05:58,760
our brains, when we're younger, 
we have so much more 

946
01:05:58,760 --> 01:06:02,720
neuroplasticity. 
And I'm finding, you know, I'm 

947
01:06:02,720 --> 01:06:06,560
almost 50. 
Trying to accept my new reality 

948
01:06:06,560 --> 01:06:11,720
at this age has been exceedingly
difficult because my brain just 

949
01:06:11,720 --> 01:06:16,160
keeps rejecting it. 
It's like it is not sticking in 

950
01:06:16,160 --> 01:06:20,600
my brain that I have that this 
man is my father and I have 

951
01:06:20,600 --> 01:06:22,960
these two siblings. 
Like almost every day. 

952
01:06:23,400 --> 01:06:27,360
It's like Groundhog Day. 
I I wake up and I'm like, is 

953
01:06:27,360 --> 01:06:30,160
this real? 
What advice do you have for? 

954
01:06:30,160 --> 01:06:33,520
Someone who just uncovered Adna 
surprise. 

955
01:06:33,920 --> 01:06:35,880
I have thought about this as 
well. 

956
01:06:35,880 --> 01:06:41,880
And I wanted to say that you 
don't have to be claimed by 

957
01:06:41,880 --> 01:06:46,360
anyone to belong in this world. 
I struggled with that for a long

958
01:06:46,360 --> 01:06:49,080
time. 
And I know everybody's story is 

959
01:06:49,080 --> 01:06:52,480
different. 
You have everything you need 

960
01:06:52,480 --> 01:06:55,200
inside of you to heal from the 
hurt. 

961
01:06:55,880 --> 01:06:59,800
If you can channel your all your
heart's compassion, all your 

962
01:06:59,800 --> 01:07:04,480
advocacy and all your kindness 
to yourself during this time. 

963
01:07:04,480 --> 01:07:09,040
So instead of sharing like those
beautiful, generous qualities 

964
01:07:09,040 --> 01:07:12,720
with other people, hoard them 
for yourself right now because 

965
01:07:12,720 --> 01:07:15,160
that's who you should be 
lavishing all that on. 

966
01:07:15,960 --> 01:07:19,760
I mean, it's a definite bonus. 
Or plus if you have a support 

967
01:07:19,760 --> 01:07:23,320
group, if you have family 
members that are there for you 

968
01:07:23,320 --> 01:07:25,120
and all those things would be 
awesome. 

969
01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:27,640
But you don't even have to have 
those to heal. 

970
01:07:27,640 --> 01:07:31,480
You have yourself. 
You can shower all of that love 

971
01:07:31,480 --> 01:07:33,720
upon yourself. 
I was also going to say that 

972
01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:36,000
trauma informed guidance is 
helpful. 

973
01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:40,040
So if you're able to find a 
therapist that knows a little 

974
01:07:40,040 --> 01:07:44,280
bit about trauma. 
And recently I learned about the

975
01:07:44,560 --> 01:07:47,040
IFS system. 
I think it's called the internal

976
01:07:47,080 --> 01:07:48,880
family system. 
Yeah. 

977
01:07:48,880 --> 01:07:50,840
And everybody's been mentioning 
that. 

978
01:07:50,840 --> 01:07:52,840
And I don't know that much about
it. 

979
01:07:53,280 --> 01:07:58,560
But as soon as I got that idea 
in my head and I found myself 

980
01:07:58,560 --> 01:08:03,160
struggling with, you know, 
memories or situations or 

981
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:06,240
circumstances from my younger 
self that I didn't understand. 

982
01:08:07,440 --> 01:08:09,560
And I could be. 
My own mother. 

983
01:08:09,960 --> 01:08:16,240
Like I could imagine my 50 year 
old self not standing for the 

984
01:08:16,240 --> 01:08:18,359
treatment that I was getting at 
the time. 

985
01:08:18,640 --> 01:08:22,960
It's been really, really, really
healing for me because you wait 

986
01:08:22,960 --> 01:08:25,920
for people to save you, you wait
for people to see the distress 

987
01:08:25,920 --> 01:08:27,720
you're in, and you wait for 
people to help you. 

988
01:08:28,040 --> 01:08:29,840
But a lot of times that never 
comes. 

989
01:08:30,640 --> 01:08:35,040
So in these cases, you can take 
the initiative and you can be 

990
01:08:35,040 --> 01:08:37,520
there for yourself. 
I know it sounds a little bit 

991
01:08:37,560 --> 01:08:42,840
like like a mind trick, but it 
really is just acknowledging 

992
01:08:42,840 --> 01:08:48,880
that you deserved better. 
And while we can't change the 

993
01:08:48,880 --> 01:08:53,760
past, you can acknowledge that 
and stand for it and insist on 

994
01:08:53,760 --> 01:08:56,760
it for the future. 
That's kind of how I've been 

995
01:08:56,760 --> 01:08:59,640
looking at my journey. 
And then I did want to say that 

996
01:08:59,640 --> 01:09:02,960
I wanted to remind everybody 
that the people with the most 

997
01:09:02,960 --> 01:09:05,920
power usually get to tell these 
kind of stories. 

998
01:09:06,560 --> 01:09:08,680
They love to sugar coat the 
stories. 

999
01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:12,560
So I just want to say to tell 
your story when you are able to 

1000
01:09:12,560 --> 01:09:15,000
and take back all that power for
yourself and you're going to 

1001
01:09:15,000 --> 01:09:17,960
feel better. 
Oh, that's. 

1002
01:09:17,960 --> 01:09:21,520
Such good advice. 
Rebecca, thank you so much. 

1003
01:09:21,520 --> 01:09:24,520
For joining me. 
Today and sharing your story, 

1004
01:09:24,600 --> 01:09:29,160
man, you have experienced so 
much, but you still have such 

1005
01:09:29,160 --> 01:09:35,359
like a, a brightness to you and 
like this overall positive 

1006
01:09:35,359 --> 01:09:39,120
outlook amidst figuring a lot of
things out. 

1007
01:09:39,160 --> 01:09:43,200
And I just wish you the best as 
you continue to navigate this. 

1008
01:09:43,600 --> 01:09:47,880
I, I know it can be heavy at 
times, even though our 

1009
01:09:47,880 --> 01:09:51,720
experiences are, are different, 
but it really does get better. 

1010
01:09:51,840 --> 01:09:55,280
And I hope that we can connect 
again when things are are making

1011
01:09:55,280 --> 01:09:58,360
even more sense to you and 
people can hear that. 

1012
01:09:59,200 --> 01:10:01,000
Thank you. 
Thank you so much. 

1013
01:10:02,160 --> 01:10:03,960
Thanks again to Rebecca. 
For sharing her. 

1014
01:10:03,960 --> 01:10:08,040
Story If you have Adna surprise 
that you'd like to share, please

1015
01:10:08,040 --> 01:10:11,240
submit your story at 
dnasurprises.com. 

1016
01:10:12,080 --> 01:10:15,640
For early ad free access to 
episodes, join me over on 

1017
01:10:15,640 --> 01:10:21,400
patreon@patreon.com/DNA 
Surprises That's a wrap on 

1018
01:10:21,400 --> 01:10:25,000
Season 13. 
We'll be back in May for Season 

1019
01:10:25,000 --> 01:10:27,440
14. 
Thanks again for being here. 

1020
01:10:27,720 --> 01:10:33,360
Until next time. 
DNA Surprises is hosted. 

1021
01:10:33,440 --> 01:10:38,880
Produced and edited by me, 
Alexis Oursalt, it is mixed and 

1022
01:10:38,880 --> 01:10:42,840
mastered by Josh Oursalt of 
Siren Recording Studios.