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I think that through all of 
this, one of my biggest lessons 

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has been that we're, we're truly
never alone on our paths. 

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And as hard as things are, as 
scary as they are, as shocking 

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as information can be, you're 
never alone. 

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There's always going to be 
somebody who has your back. 

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And that I, I believe that that 
can be in the physical world and

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that can also be in the 
ancestors coming forward and 

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supporting you in ways that you 
might not even be aware of, 

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right. 
And so I think that the only way

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through is through and going 
gently with yourself so that 

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you're able to process and heal 
and move forward and then share 

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as you can, right? 
Not everybody wants to share, 

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but I really feel like being 
able to talk to people like you 

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is so healing. 
And for people to hear about 

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people like us is so healing. 
And we live in a very unique 

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time where technology has 
allowed us to learn a lot about 

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our families that we would have 
never known before. 

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These secrets would have never 
come out before. 

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And so it's a lot it it can be 
very healing and it can be very 

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intense. 
And I honestly wouldn't have it 

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any other way. 
Welcome to DNA Surprises, a 

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podcast that delves into the 
world of unexpected DNA 

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discoveries. 
I'm your host, Alexis Oursalt. 

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In July 2021, my life took a 
surprising turn when I found out

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that I'm an N P/E, a person who 
has experienced a non paternal 

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event. 
In other words, my biological 

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father isn't who I thought he 
was. 

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Join me as we explore the 
stories of NP, ES, adoptees and 

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donor conceived people and their
families. 

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Get ready to unravel the 
astonishing journeys that begin 

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with a simple DNA test. 
This is DNA surprises. 

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When someone uncovers adna 
surprise, their family tree 

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changes. 
That sounds simple. 

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Swap out one name and lineage 
with another. 

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But the reality is that our 
roots, so many of the things 

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that make us us, come from 
generations before us. 

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In this week's episode, Melissa 
shares her profound journey 

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after discovering that the man 
who raised her is not her 

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biological father. 
From uncovering clues in her 

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late grandmother's writings to 
learning about her biological 

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father's tumultuous past and 
building new relationships with 

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half siblings, Melissa delves 
into the complex emotions and 

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revelations that emerged along 
the way. 

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Through her genealogical 
research, Melissa connects with 

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her ancestral roots, 
understanding more about her 

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family's history and the 
legacies that shape her 

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identity. 
Thank you for sharing your 

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story, Melissa. 
My name is Melissa. 

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I'm just turned 48 and I'm from 
Santa Fe, NM. 

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You know that there's a lot of 
people who said that they had 

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clues when they were little 
about, you know, their, their 

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dad not being their dad or, or 
whatever. 

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I had a couple of clues, but 
nothing came clear until I was 

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18. 
You know, when I was old enough 

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to start doing some math, I was 
like, wait a minute, my parents 

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anniversary is in July, but I 
was born in November. 

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So that doesn't quite add up, 
right? 

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And I had my mom's name when my 
mom's last name when I was first

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born and chose to change it to 
my dad's last name. 

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So they went through the whole 
court paperwork to do that right

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when I was in about fifth grade.
So those two were little things 

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like the dates and the last 
name. 

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But my parents were never 
legally married, so them giving 

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me my mom's last name was not 
that big of a surprise, right? 

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Well, when I was 18, I was about
8 months pregnant with my 

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daughter. 
And the day after my 18th 

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birthday, my dad sat me down and
said that he was not my 

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biological father. 
My dad said I'm not your 

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biological father. 
The timing just wasn't right, 

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but I chose to stay anyway. 
So the timing not being right 

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could have meant a lot of 
different things, right? 

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I later learned that he met her 
when she was pregnant with me 

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and he chose to stay. 
OK, OK. 

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So with that information, I was 
18, I was pregnant, I was highly

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emotional and didn't know what 
to do with that information. 

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So I I left the room where we 
were and my mom was like, what 

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you guys talk about. 
And I told her and she got very,

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very angry and used lots of 
choice words and called him a 

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liar and said that that was 
absolutely not the truth. 

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And it was all very her reaction
was even more traumatic than him

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telling me in that moment. 
Did he indicate like why he 

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waited And he, it seems like he 
waited right until you were 18 

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and then was like, I got to tell
you this. 

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Maybe it was that I was 18, 
maybe it was that I was grown 

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right, but I don't, I don't know
beyond that. 

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I just there I was. 
I was, I was pregnant. 

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I was confused and scared and 
sad and I just kind of left it 

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alone because this was 1995. 
There was like nothing to be 

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done, right? 
There was no DNA test. 

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I didn't know who I could talk 
to. 

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If my mom was saying absolutely 
not and my dad was saying the 

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timing just wasn't right. 
Well, what am I going to do with

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that, right? 
Two years later, my maternal 

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grandma passed away. 
And she was a writer. 

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She was an avid writer her 
entire life, and I was given a 

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lot of her writing when she 
passed away. 

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And I'm talking boxes and boxes 
of chaos. 

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And in that writing were a few 
pages of a very long letter that

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she had written to one of my 
aunts shortly after my birth. 

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The entire letter was about 26 
pages long, and there was only 

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like 6 pages in it. 
So for whatever reason, those 6 

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pages were handed off to me in 
that letter. 

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She's talking to my aunt and she
says Melissa is an unmixed 

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blessing. 
Michael was a disaster, as 

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sometimes love can be. 
And then she says that my dad, 

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who raised me, that he is doing 
very well considering all the 

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weather and that he and my mom 
just might make it yet. 

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So there I have. 
OK, so I guess we're thinking 

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the bio dad might be a Michael. 
And that was it. 

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Again, I kind of folded that 
paper back up and tucked it back

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away in the writing and just 
kept moving forward. 

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I started doing a little bit of 
genealogy, but in the late 90s, 

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genealogy looked very different.
You know, you were writing 

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letters to historical societies 
or to libraries or state places 

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and trying to get the right 
birth certificate for the right 

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person. 
And you had to have all the 

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right information. 
So it was very tedious and 

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expensive and just challenging. 
So I kind of stopped doing that 

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pretty quickly, right? 
I was in my early 20s going 

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nobody has time for this. 
Like, what am I doing? 

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And at this point? 
Are are you able to talk to your

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mom about it at all or is that 
just a closed door based on her 

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reaction? 
It was a closed door based on 

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her reaction. 
My mom struggled with mental 

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health challenges all of my life
and when she reacted that way, I

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00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:52,520
just was like Oh my gosh, OK 
well this just can't be a 

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00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:56,160
conversation right now. 
And my grandma had been ill for 

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a long time and I thought she 
was stressed out by that. 

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And what I learned later in 
talking to my dad is that she 

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00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:05,520
had already begun using again. 
She struggled with addiction a 

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00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:11,520
lot and and had ebbs and flows 
of it my whole life and I didn't

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00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:13,240
know. 
I didn't know that that was what

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00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:16,960
was happening in her, in her 
right, which later explains the 

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emotions. 
But it was just a closed door. 

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I was out of the house. 
And as she continued slipping, I

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started just putting up more and
more boundaries. 

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And by the time I was 2324, it 
was almost a full no contact 

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situation because I was doing my
best to protect myself and my 

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daughter. 
I was not going to put her 

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through some of the things that 
I remembered when I was young, 

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00:08:42,919 --> 00:08:46,720
right? 
My mom passed away in 2006. 

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And she just, she took all of 
those stories with her when she 

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went and she had about six years
before her death where she was 

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just completely sideways. 
And I never knew when she was 

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going to be lucid or not. 
So that it was not an 

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opportunity for talking to her 
at all. 

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00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:04,920
So we have this information that
I just kind of carried with me 

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for decades and I internalized 
it. 

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I really internalized it 
thinking that I was the secret, 

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not that this was a secret, but 
that I was the secret. 

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And I also internalized the idea
that it was my job to protect my

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family members from any pain 
that this secret might cause. 

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I didn't want to talk to my dad 
about it because I felt like 

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that would be painful for him to
relive that. 

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And he's also, you know, he's a 
younger boomer, so he's pretty 

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00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:39,720
stoic and like, he doesn't want 
to dig into the past too much. 

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And I didn't want to hurt my 
brother. 

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I thought my brother would be 
devastated. 

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And I didn't want to hurt my 
oldest daughter. 

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She idolizes her grandpa. 
And I just really didn't want to

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do damage. 
I thought I would do damage to 

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other people by talking about 
this, so I didn't. 

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So in 2019, 2019, I decided that
the only option to find anything

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out might be to take ADNA test. 
And so I did. 

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And I kind of did it rather 
flippantly. 

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Like looking back on it, I just,
I, I couldn't even wrap my head 

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00:10:18,560 --> 00:10:22,400
around the fact that I would 
discover all of the things that 

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00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:24,280
I discovered. 
I was just like, well, maybe I 

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00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:26,320
might get a clue as to like who 
Michael is. 

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00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:31,320
And boy, did I get a clue. 
It it wasn't like you forgot 

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00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:33,840
about it and you're like, Oh no,
I'm just going to take this. 

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00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:35,480
You. 
You had it in the back of your 

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00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:39,960
mind, but you didn't realize all
that you might uncover. 

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00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:43,360
I think because it had never 
been my reality, you know, I, I 

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00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:46,440
just didn't think like, oh, 
there might be siblings or aunts

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00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:50,360
or cousins or grandparents or 
like, you know, an entire family

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00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:55,840
that would exist on, on this 
Michael's side that that didn't,

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00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:58,400
you know, ever. 
He was just a stranger in my 

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00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:00,560
mind. 
He wasn't a real human, right? 

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00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:03,120
Which is so interesting, those 
disconnects. 

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00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:05,240
And I guess it was just my 
subconscious trying to protect 

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00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:08,160
me also. 
So I took the test, kind of 

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00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:11,520
forgot about it, like, oh, I'll 
get the e-mail when it's ready. 

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00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:15,800
And I got the e-mail one night 
and it was ready and I opened it

185
00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:21,200
up and I had two very close 
matches. 

186
00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:25,160
I didn't know what that meant, 
but two very close matches, two 

187
00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:29,000
women and I'm looking at that 
and I'm like, OK, who are these 

188
00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:30,480
people? 
I don't understand. 

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00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:35,640
I start clicking through onto 
their trees and not recognizing 

190
00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:39,080
names or anything, right. 
But on one of the trees she had 

191
00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:43,000
listed and because he had passed
his full name and his birth and 

192
00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:46,760
death date showed up and she had
her dad listed as Michael. 

193
00:11:47,680 --> 00:11:50,960
And at that point I just kind of
like closed my eyes and handed 

194
00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:54,400
my phone to my wife. 
Like, I, I don't know what any 

195
00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:59,320
of this is, but I yeah. 
And so she kept clicking around 

196
00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:01,640
as I just kind of sat there, 
like, wow. 

197
00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:05,800
OK. 
And then immediately I started 

198
00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:11,080
getting direct messages from 
another sister's best friend who

199
00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:17,000
was managing her account. 
And that sister was adopted. 

200
00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:18,600
She was put up for adoption at 
birth. 

201
00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:22,640
And so she's been searching for 
both of her parents for a lot of

202
00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:23,760
years. 
And so her best friend was 

203
00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,640
helping her with that. 
And so that those e-mail 

204
00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,160
exchanges, I, I didn't know 
anything. 

205
00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:31,400
And, and her best friend was all
well-intentioned, but she's 

206
00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:33,240
like, do you know about this? 
Do you know about this? 

207
00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:34,240
Do you know this name? 
Do you know? 

208
00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:38,240
And like rapid fire questions. 
And I literally wrote her back. 

209
00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:42,360
I know nothing like, at all. 
Yeah. 

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00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:44,320
Like. 
I'm just trying to figure this 

211
00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:47,240
out. 
Were you just overwhelmed with? 

212
00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:50,560
Completely overwhelmed. 
Yeah, completely overwhelmed. 

213
00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:55,520
So it quickly became clear based
on our high match that she was a

214
00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:58,760
half sister, that we shared the 
same biological father. 

215
00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:02,680
The friend had nailed it down to
three brothers, but she wasn't 

216
00:13:02,680 --> 00:13:05,400
sure which of those three 
brothers could be the biological

217
00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:07,600
father. 
So me testing was kind of the 

218
00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:11,080
triangulation that she needed. 
So then she started asking about

219
00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:13,200
the other sister. 
Have you had communication with 

220
00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:14,480
her? 
We've been trying to reach out 

221
00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:16,920
to her. 
And I obviously hadn't, I had 

222
00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:19,320
just opened the e-mail. 
It was a couple of days later 

223
00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:22,760
that I got on the phone with 
this half sister and and we just

224
00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:24,520
kind of talked. 
It was like who you know, who 

225
00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:26,640
are you? 
What is this? 

226
00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:28,040
What is your story? 
How are you? 

227
00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:29,760
How are you here in this 
database? 

228
00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:33,080
What's going on? 
And she was lovely and totally 

229
00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:36,640
wonderful to talk to. 
She was adopted at birth and 

230
00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:38,200
grew up knowing that she was 
adopted. 

231
00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:40,920
So none of this was a surprise. 
She was just trying to figure 

232
00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:44,360
out, you know, who her ancestors
are, where her DNA comes from. 

233
00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:49,000
About that time I reached out to
the other sister and just said, 

234
00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:50,800
I'm just trying to figure this 
out. 

235
00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:54,560
I, I think that we might be half
sisters based on cinema organs. 

236
00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:58,200
And you know, I'm happy to chat.
I know this is kind of all, a 

237
00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:00,280
lot for me. 
I'm sure it is for you too, 

238
00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,680
because she had only recently 
tested as well, and I didn't 

239
00:14:03,680 --> 00:14:06,520
hear anything from her. 
So a couple months later I sent 

240
00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:10,360
her another one. 
That the Ancestry DNA direct 

241
00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:12,920
messaging system can sometimes 
be a little glitchy. 

242
00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:16,600
At least it was five years ago. 
Where, Yeah, where you don't 

243
00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,680
know if it was actually 
delivered or if they actually 

244
00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:21,320
read it. 
And I just was like, OK, I'll, 

245
00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:24,160
I'll send her a follow up and 
just be like, hey, I'm not 

246
00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:26,240
trying to put pressure on you. 
I just don't know if this is 

247
00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:28,920
working right. 
Still didn't hear anything from 

248
00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:30,800
her. 
And I was like, OK, so I just 

249
00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:33,280
let it go, 'cause I was like, 
you know, who am I to ask this 

250
00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:35,400
woman anything? 
I'm a stranger just trying to 

251
00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:40,960
figure this out. 
So from there, I just started 

252
00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:44,440
researching. 
I just started Googling names 

253
00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:47,960
and going on Facebook and 
finding obituaries and then 

254
00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:50,120
figuring out who the people were
that were named in the 

255
00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:54,600
obituaries. 
And it turns out that that my 

256
00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:59,320
direct paternal line, they were 
one of the first colonizing 

257
00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:04,080
families of Quebec and Canada. 
So they're very well documented,

258
00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:07,000
which was great. 
It was a lot of information all 

259
00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:09,960
at once, but I was like, wow, 
there's 10 generations right 

260
00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:10,920
there. 
OK. 

261
00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:13,880
And then just trying to pull it 
back to like, but who were these

262
00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:18,840
people that are my kin? 
A couple of people had had DNA 

263
00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:21,400
tested and there was a cousin of
Michael's. 

264
00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:25,480
So my first cousin once removed,
I think is what that is, right? 

265
00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:28,920
And and he had tested and his 
mom had tested and a couple of 

266
00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:32,320
people in his circle had tested.
So I reached out to him because 

267
00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:36,000
he had a really thorough tree 
and just said, Hey, this is who 

268
00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:38,880
I think I am. 
How you doing? 

269
00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:44,400
And he was so kind and so giving
and like, here's a picture of 

270
00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:47,640
grandma and grandpa and here's 
news articles and have you heard

271
00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:51,600
about this? 
And very sweet, very protective 

272
00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:53,720
over family, right? 
He didn't share everything all 

273
00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:56,600
at once. 
And he really likes snail mail 

274
00:15:56,680 --> 00:16:00,600
so if I would e-mail him he 
would send me a letter in the 

275
00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:02,560
mail. 
And so I just learned to just 

276
00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:04,360
write him back mail as well. 
But. 

277
00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,480
It's so incredible how these 
cousins, it's, it's always the 

278
00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:11,080
cousins that just it's. 
Always the cousins. 

279
00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:14,200
They're just, I think they're 
far enough removed from the 

280
00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:19,600
emotional impact of a discovery 
like this to be like, wow, 

281
00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:22,200
another cousin. 
OK cool, what can we share? 

282
00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:25,560
So I started off with him and he
was very lovely. 

283
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:29,040
Through another platform, I 
found another cousin who was 

284
00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:33,920
even more forthcoming with 
information and not as hesitant 

285
00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:38,520
to talk about the harder aspects
of the family and about 

286
00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:41,520
Michael's upbringing and some of
his traumas. 

287
00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:43,680
And that was super helpful for 
me. 

288
00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:46,840
As painful as it was to hear 
some of those stories, it was 

289
00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:51,040
very helpful for me to kind of 
tie up some of the loose ends 

290
00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:55,960
that had been floating around in
my head about like, who is this 

291
00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:59,680
guy and how did he make 4 kids 
with four different moms all 

292
00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:01,960
across the country And like 
nobody knows him. 

293
00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:08,040
Like what happened, right? 
And but in that, both of those 

294
00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:10,960
cousins also spoke very highly 
of him. 

295
00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:13,880
Like, you know, multiple 
opposing truths can be in 

296
00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:18,400
existence at the same time. 
And so, yes, he had struggles. 

297
00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:20,640
Yes, he may have made some poor 
choices. 

298
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:24,440
And also, they loved him. 
They adored him. 

299
00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:27,520
So there's something to be said 
for that, right? 

300
00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:32,160
It's not like he was a bad guy. 
He just had a rough life through

301
00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:34,400
all of that. 
Googling I found another half 

302
00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:39,960
aunt who Michael and her share a
father and she was also very 

303
00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:42,120
kind and excited and very 
giving. 

304
00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:46,720
Then 1/2 brother as well, who is
also very kind. 

305
00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:51,520
And also I don't mean to be 
stereotypical, but like not 

306
00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:54,600
super commutative, right? 
He's just kind of like, hey, how

307
00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:56,560
you doing? 
Cool, happy birthday. 

308
00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,560
Great, nice to see you happy, 
happy siblings day like things 

309
00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:01,880
like that. 
But like, we haven't like 

310
00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:04,440
continued on in that 
communication and I and I do 

311
00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:06,960
think it's 'cause he's just like
cool, another sibling, whatever.

312
00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:11,880
So that's so you're at 4/4. 
There's four of us that we know 

313
00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:18,120
of, yeah, 4 total. 
And we span from 1965 until the 

314
00:18:18,120 --> 00:18:21,120
early 80s. 
So there's quite an expansion 

315
00:18:21,120 --> 00:18:23,520
there. 
And I, I was born in 76, so I'm 

316
00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:26,440
right in the middle. 
I learned all of this. 

317
00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:30,320
My oldest daughter decides she 
wants to take adna test because 

318
00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:33,920
she wants to learn more about 
her indigenous roots. 

319
00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:37,400
She's half Mexican and she 
really wanted to dive into what 

320
00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:41,200
does that really mean, right. 
And so I was like, I guess I 

321
00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:45,640
have to tell her because if she 
tests, then she's going to know 

322
00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,840
all of the things. 
And I don't want her to find out

323
00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:51,560
that way. 
We were in the middle of COVID, 

324
00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:54,920
and we met at a park, and we sat
down, and I told her. 

325
00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:58,240
And she was devastated. 
And she was also angry at me. 

326
00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:01,160
Rightfully so. 
Like, OK, so you're mad at them 

327
00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,960
for keeping the secrets, but you
just kept that secret from me my

328
00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:05,480
whole life. 
Like, what the heck? 

329
00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:09,120
And so that was hard. 
But it was also, like, deserved,

330
00:19:09,120 --> 00:19:11,400
you know? 
Yeah. 

331
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:12,400
Be mad at me. 
OK. 

332
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:13,200
I get it. 
Yep. 

333
00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:15,920
Let's process this together. 
Yeah. 

334
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:20,200
How did you kind of process, Did
you just kind of accept it and 

335
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:23,840
own it right away? 
Or yeah, yeah, there's nothing 

336
00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:27,840
else for it. 
Just yeah, I, I messed up and I 

337
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:31,400
thought I needed to protect you 
and this sucks and you're going 

338
00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:33,560
to have to deal with this and 
kind of go through some pain. 

339
00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:36,960
And I'm here if you have any 
questions, if you want to know 

340
00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:38,160
anything. 
And. 

341
00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:40,080
And she didn't really at first, 
right? 

342
00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:44,000
She was just like, oh, so I'm 
not genetically his 

343
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,720
granddaughter. 
And I'm like, no, but he's your 

344
00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:48,120
grandpa. 
Like, he loves you 

345
00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:49,600
unconditionally. 
He loves me. 

346
00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,720
He chose to stay for all of us, 
right? 

347
00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:58,040
And so slowly and but surely, 
she has has asked more questions

348
00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:00,680
and I've been able to show her 
pictures and tell her stories 

349
00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:03,720
about our genetic line. 
So she's gotten more and more 

350
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:07,280
curious, which is nice. 
I thought that I wanted to talk 

351
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:11,640
to one of my mom's siblings and 
I, I waited too long. 

352
00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:13,960
She got really sick and she 
passed away before I could 

353
00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:16,560
actually talk to her. 
And that was hard. 

354
00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:23,400
And then about 18 months after I
tested, I decided to reach out 

355
00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:27,280
to the sister that had been no 
communication on Facebook 

356
00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:30,600
because you can see if 
something's read on Facebook. 

357
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:35,920
And so I just wrote and said, 
hey, I'm not trying to stalk 

358
00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:36,600
you. 
I promise. 

359
00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:39,760
I don't know how reliable this 
other system is. 

360
00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:42,120
If you don't ever want to hear 
from me again, cool. 

361
00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:45,800
And she responded immediately. 
And she was like, Oh my gosh, 

362
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:48,680
I'm so glad you reached out. 
I just needed some time and 

363
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:50,200
space. 
But I really want to talk to 

364
00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:52,400
you. 
Like, I feel like it's time and 

365
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:56,800
I'm ready. 
And I was like, yay, OK, who is 

366
00:20:56,800 --> 00:21:00,080
this other person? 
And she has been absolutely 

367
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,880
lovely of the other two 
siblings. 

368
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:05,520
Or I guess there's three of us. 
So of the three siblings, her 

369
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:10,360
and I resonate the best. 
We have a lot of things in 

370
00:21:10,360 --> 00:21:14,120
common. 
We have a lot of our morals are 

371
00:21:14,120 --> 00:21:17,720
aligned in a lot of ways. 
We're able to connect around 

372
00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:20,200
having younger children. 
And so that's been really 

373
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:21,520
interesting. 
We're only a couple of years 

374
00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:23,640
apart. 
So there was there was some time

375
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:27,280
where we're like, wait, when, 
when did your mom live in Santa 

376
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:29,640
Fe? 
And wait, when did, when did you

377
00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:33,720
guys move to? 
Was there overlap there? 

378
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:36,600
And there was not. 
There was none of that, but her 

379
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,120
mom and and Michael were 
married. 

380
00:21:39,120 --> 00:21:41,680
They they did get married and 
they started their family with 

381
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:43,960
the sister and then he passed 
away. 

382
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:47,800
He passed away in 1983. 
And so she was raised by a 

383
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,720
single mom until she was 11 and 
her mom remarried. 

384
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,400
So she basically knew nothing as
well. 

385
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,520
Her mom wouldn't really talk 
about Michael, and she never 

386
00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,560
really understood why, but it 
was kind of a closed door every 

387
00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:04,480
time she would try to open it. 
So we've all just been learning 

388
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:06,800
together and trying to put the 
puzzle pieces together. 

389
00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:12,880
And as my grandma's 
granddaughter, I am a writer 

390
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:15,440
too. 
I am have always been very 

391
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:16,880
curious about our family 
history. 

392
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:21,800
And my grandma wrote our family 
history in a memoir of sorts. 

393
00:22:22,120 --> 00:22:25,920
And so I kind of saw it as my 
job to like continue this on 

394
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:30,640
right and take off where she 
left off and be like, OK, I can 

395
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:35,040
fill in the gaps, but there's so
much history here, not just my 

396
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:38,680
story, but all of our stories 
that deserve to be told in one 

397
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,360
way or another. 
And so I've used this 

398
00:22:41,360 --> 00:22:45,360
opportunity to really dig into 
both Michael's side of the 

399
00:22:45,360 --> 00:22:48,720
family and their, you know, 
personality traits and 

400
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,640
characteristics and jobs and all
of those things that you can 

401
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,560
discover through black and white
on the Internet and my maternal 

402
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:56,640
side and kind of piece those 
together. 

403
00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:03,160
And it's been very interesting 
to see how similar a lot of the 

404
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:06,600
likes and paths that people have
taken. 

405
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:10,960
And like there's a, there's a 
thread of love for music and 

406
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:14,280
gardening and horses and things 
like that. 

407
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:18,680
And you see how that all 
trickles down into my generation

408
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,760
and below, right? 
And so that's been super 

409
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:26,040
interesting. 
I guess the the last part that 

410
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:31,440
was more aha moments was my mom 
had three siblings and she was 

411
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:33,720
the first to pass. 
And then my two aunts passed 

412
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:37,800
away and my uncle was the last 
one living and we had been 

413
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:42,440
estranged for decades. 
Just because right, you just 

414
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,560
they move away. 
Life gets complicated. 

415
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:49,880
My mom had her struggles, just 
we just hadn't been in touch. 

416
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:52,960
And I found one of his 
daughters, my cousin on 

417
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:57,000
Instagram and was like, hey, 
stranger, it's been like 25 

418
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:58,160
years. 
How you doing? 

419
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,680
And I told her what I was up to 
with the family history. 

420
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,880
And she was like, well, do you 
want me to like connect you with

421
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:07,520
my dad? 
And I was like, I actually 

422
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:11,080
really do. 
And she's like, OK, so she 

423
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:13,280
connected us. 
She gave me his phone number, 

424
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:15,400
told him. 
And it took me a couple of weeks

425
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:17,240
to call him. 
I was so nervous to call him 

426
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,880
just to even like, start that 
communication. 

427
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,560
And I called and he was so 
excited to hear from me and so 

428
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:25,800
excited to just chat about 
anything. 

429
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:30,120
And I told him about me going 
into the family history and 

430
00:24:30,120 --> 00:24:33,160
asked him if he had any 
documents or anything from my 

431
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:36,880
grandma when she passed away. 
And he did. 

432
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,080
And he said he'd be willing to 
share anything that he could 

433
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:43,560
find he could dig up. 
So it took a few months, but I 

434
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,320
finally made the opportunity to 
drive down to him. 

435
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,240
He lives about six hours away 
and I took my brother with me 

436
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:54,360
because I needed a buffer. 
Absolutely, and I also hadn't 

437
00:24:54,360 --> 00:24:56,240
had this conversation with my 
brother yet. 

438
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,480
Did you just grew up with one 
brother? 

439
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:00,040
One brother. 
Yeah. 

440
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,200
And he's 11 years younger than 
me. 

441
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,880
So there was a big gap between 
the two of us. 

442
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,240
Same, same dad. 
The dad who raised me as his 

443
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,560
biological father. 
So we drove down and I'm like, 

444
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:11,160
hey, so I need to talk to you 
about something. 

445
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,880
And he's like, OK, what? 
And I told him that that I have 

446
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,040
another biological father. 
And he was like, Oh, yeah, I 

447
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,640
know. 
I was like, what do you mean? 

448
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,120
You know? 
And he's like, Mom told me what?

449
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:24,480
What do you mean? 
Mom told you? 

450
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,600
She wouldn't talk to me about 
it, but she told you he was 

451
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:29,440
like, yeah, that that's cool. 
I'm cool. 

452
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,960
Everything's fine. 
So that was fun. 

453
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:35,720
Like Oh my gosh. 
So did he know any other 

454
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,680
information or did? 
He no, not really just, yeah, 

455
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:42,040
just that I was like, man, I 
didn't have to. 

456
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,440
I didn't have to keep this 
secret from anybody. 

457
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,200
Like everybody knew but me, 
right? 

458
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,600
So we go down, we see my uncle 
and my cousins. 

459
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,160
I made it a very short trip on 
purpose because I didn't want it

460
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,280
to be like long and drawn out 
and emotional. 

461
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:59,040
I just wanted to go down, 
reconnect, see what he had and 

462
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,600
then tap out. 
And so so we did. 

463
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,560
We had a lovely dinner. 
The next morning, my brother and

464
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:07,480
I went to his house and he had 
pulled out several boxes of 

465
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:11,000
various writings and photos and 
stuff and popped up a card table

466
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:12,960
in his kitchen and then just 
went in the other room and let 

467
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,960
me have at it. 
And at one point, my brother and

468
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:21,040
my cousin left to go get lunch. 
And he came in. 

469
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,240
He said, I just want to check on
how you're doing, see if you 

470
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:24,960
have any questions. 
And I was like, I actually do 

471
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:28,160
have a couple of questions for 
you if you're willing to chat. 

472
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,400
And he goes, yeah, OK. 
Yeah. 

473
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,480
So I, I had two other questions 
to ask him. 

474
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:42,520
I wanted to know if he had a 
oatmeal Raisin cookie recipe 

475
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,360
that was my great grandpa's that
I had heard about my whole life,

476
00:26:45,360 --> 00:26:47,200
but nobody could ever track down
the recipe. 

477
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,320
And he did, and he knew exactly 
where to find it and brought it 

478
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,720
to me immediately. 
I had a question about something

479
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:57,240
my grandma had written about in 
her kind of journal notes. 

480
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,600
It wasn't in her memoir, but in 
her journal notes about a a 

481
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,360
really rough time that my 
grandpa had had at one point. 

482
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,480
And I was like, it didn't make 
any sense to me. 

483
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,720
So he clarified that for me, 
which then made everything else 

484
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:09,560
make sense. 
Right. 

485
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:13,040
And then I brought up the 
subject of Michael was like, 

486
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:17,360
hey, do you know that my dad is 
not my biological father? 

487
00:27:17,360 --> 00:27:19,600
Do you know anything about this 
Michael? 

488
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:27,080
And he took a deep breath and he
goes, yeah, I just didn't want 

489
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,000
to put nails in your head, 
Melissa. 

490
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:35,120
And I was like nails in my head.
I know I've never heard. 

491
00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:37,200
I even Googled it to see if it 
was like a thing. 

492
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,320
It's it's not a thing. 
It was just a thing for him. 

493
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:43,280
He said I just didn't want to 
cause any more pain that was 

494
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:48,040
then was necessary in your life.
And I was like, OK, well, what 

495
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:52,400
can you tell me? 
And basically what he told me is

496
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,480
that my mom and Michael were 
together. 

497
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:56,840
I don't know how long it was, 
but it was an established 

498
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,360
relationship and it ended 
violently. 

499
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,760
And it ended violently before 
she knew she was pregnant with 

500
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:05,840
me. 
So it ended. 

501
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,880
He was told to go away and then 
she found out she was pregnant 

502
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,600
with me. 
And at that point, the dad who 

503
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:17,280
raised me kind of stepped in and
and they were together through 

504
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:20,080
her pregnancy. 
That was a lot for me to 

505
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:23,120
process, right? 
That was that was I didn't. 

506
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,480
Again, I couldn't imagine that 
that would have been the answer.

507
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,440
Like they were together. 
It ended violently, and I won't 

508
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:33,120
go into details here, but he 
gave me details and it made so 

509
00:28:33,120 --> 00:28:37,680
much make sense in terms of my 
mom's reaction, right? 

510
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,800
Like she had held this secret 
and she had protected me from 

511
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,080
this information. 
And she probably believed in her

512
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,440
heart of hearts that my dad 
would never tell me that he 

513
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:48,480
wasn't my biological father, 
right? 

514
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:53,440
And so me saying that to her, 
I'm sure cracked open a whole 

515
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:57,080
other universe for her, right? 
And it was easier for her to 

516
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:01,040
just deny it than to even go 
into what any of that might 

517
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,600
mean. 
I'm curious, like how you were 

518
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:08,040
feeling when you got that 
information, because like you're

519
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,120
saying there, there's the 
duality, right? 

520
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,000
Doesn't mean you weren't 
thinking that he was like a bad 

521
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:20,400
person or anything like that. 
Then you hear this information 

522
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,960
that's heavy. 
How do you process that? 

523
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,680
How do you feel? 
You know, I wish I could say 

524
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:29,720
that everything's all tied up in
a nice little bow. 

525
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,400
Therapy helps, right? 
But immediately after that 

526
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,680
conversation with my uncle, I 
just was like, it was another 

527
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:38,720
piece of information that I just
kind of took in. 

528
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:41,960
And I got to the bed and 
breakfast that night and I wrote

529
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,040
down in my journal, you know, 
the answers to the three 

530
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:48,000
questions I had asked him. 
And it took me a little while to

531
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:54,080
just kind of process that and to
really think about my mom was 23

532
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,560
when she got pregnant with me. 
She was young and he was about 

533
00:29:57,680 --> 00:29:59,760
10 years older than her. 
So she was young. 

534
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,280
I'm sure she was terrified about
the whole situation. 

535
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,160
And then to find out that she 
was pregnant, right? 

536
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:11,520
And it, it brought a sense of 
compassion and a sense of 

537
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:16,240
understanding for me towards my 
mom and her keeping the secret 

538
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:21,480
also on like a epigenetic level.
I don't know if you've gotten 

539
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:26,720
into epigenetics, but but the 
idea that traumas that our our 

540
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,360
ancestors experience can be 
passed down through our genes 

541
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,840
into US, right? 
And so I had this period of time

542
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:39,320
where I was really reflecting 
on, I was being carried inside 

543
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:44,800
my mom when she experienced this
violent experience, right? 

544
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,880
And just kind of processing that
and moving through that. 

545
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,800
Right, it's a lot to process. 
It's a lot to process. 

546
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:57,640
And I think one of the biggest 
challenges with being an NPE is 

547
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,440
people who haven't experienced 
something like this really don't

548
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,720
know. 
And, and I know that people say 

549
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,320
silly things like, well, but 
he's still your dad or, you 

550
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:07,880
know, it's not that big of a 
deal or whatever. 

551
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,400
And that's all well intended 
because they don't know what 

552
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:12,160
else to say. 
Doesn't mean that they should 

553
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,720
say it, but they don't know what
else to say, right. 

554
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:19,560
And so being able to talk to 
other people, being able to be 

555
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,560
really honest with the one 
sister that I'm in contact with 

556
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,120
and kind of process things 
through with her. 

557
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:30,840
I've got a really great 
therapist who has experience 

558
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,400
with NP, ES and adoption and 
addiction, all the, all of the 

559
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:39,400
key points that I could hit. 
She really gets it and that's 

560
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:44,120
been hugely helpful. 
And I would I would say don't 

561
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:48,840
take ADNA test unless you have a
therapist already because wow. 

562
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:51,160
Because. 
You just never know. 

563
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:52,640
You never know what's going to 
come up. 

564
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,160
And I did not have a therapist 
at the time and I should have 

565
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:59,360
gotten one sooner because it was
just so much to process, so much

566
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,280
to process. 
It's really just been about 

567
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:06,280
taking all of these pieces and, 
and putting them together into 

568
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:12,120
this huge mosaic and really 
trying to gain understanding 

569
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:16,640
about who Michael was, who his 
parents were, what his 

570
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,840
experiences were growing up. 
He was in Vietnam. 

571
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,000
So he came back with some trauma
there. 

572
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:26,080
Like, you know, I, I feel like 
really based on what all of his 

573
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:29,160
cousins have said and based on 
everything else that I've 

574
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:33,960
learned, it seems to me he was a
very tender hearted person who 

575
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,920
had a lot of hard things that he
went through and he just 

576
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,320
couldn't stay put, right? 
He just couldn't stay put. 

577
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:44,280
And that that manifested for at 
least the three of us in one 

578
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:46,080
way. 
And then when he passed away 

579
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:51,160
very suddenly shortly after my 
youngest half sister's birth, it

580
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,680
just kind of boggles the mind. 
It boggles the mind. 

581
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:58,320
He was 40 years old and he just 
couldn't stick around. 

582
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:04,640
And so I think a lot of that is 
just compassion and knowing that

583
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:08,280
him and my mom were in a 
relationship that I would like 

584
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:10,960
to think was a good relationship
at least part of the time. 

585
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,880
And that it, you know, there's a
lot of different ways that we 

586
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:17,240
come into being. 
And then to just recognize that 

587
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:21,080
the dad who raised me knew all 
of the things and he chose to 

588
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:23,440
stay. 
And he chose to stay every day 

589
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:25,400
after that. 
He didn't have to stick around. 

590
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,080
Things were not always easy with
my mom, but he did. 

591
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,400
And he's still here and he's 
still like, super supportive. 

592
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:34,120
And even if he won't share all 
the gory details with me, he's 

593
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:35,280
like, you know, what do you 
need? 

594
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:38,080
Is this going to help you in the
future? 

595
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:39,880
And I'm like, yes, it will. 
And he's like, OK, cool, let's 

596
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:43,040
let's talk about it then, even 
if it's just kind of at a 

597
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:48,000
surface level. 
I'm curious about a little bit 

598
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:53,480
more about how this revelation 
about your conception and kind 

599
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,640
of what happened before your mom
realized that she was pregnant, 

600
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:03,880
how that maybe changed your view
of your mother, given that, like

601
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,520
you mentioned, this was 
obviously a traumatic experience

602
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,159
that she had. 
Michael had also been through 

603
00:34:09,199 --> 00:34:12,480
traumatic experiences, what she 
may or may not have known about.

604
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:15,440
How did it change your 
perception of your mother to 

605
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:16,679
learn this? 
Oh, I have. 

606
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:18,800
I have so much more compassion 
for her. 

607
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:24,360
You know, I spent a long time 
being mad at my mom, not because

608
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:27,719
of the MPE situation 
necessarily, but because of her 

609
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:34,679
struggles with addiction. 
And what I have learned just in 

610
00:34:34,679 --> 00:34:40,040
the last 18 years since she 
passed has given me a very broad

611
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:43,920
perspective on, on addiction and
how people become addicted and 

612
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,560
why they become addicted and a 
lack of coping skills. 

613
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:48,960
And there's, there's so many 
components there. 

614
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,560
And I was just mad at her for a 
lot of years because I was like,

615
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:53,360
why can't you just get your 
stuff together? 

616
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,159
Like, what is your problem? 
You're grown, right? 

617
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,560
And, and then I've got some 
experience and a broader 

618
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,240
perspective of, oh, you, you 
can't adjust. 

619
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:05,800
Nobody can just get their stuff 
together, right? 

620
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,800
There's so many different 
aspects to our being and our 

621
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,840
experience and if we're willing 
to accept help or not. 

622
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:16,160
And for so many people, self 
medication is the only option 

623
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:18,600
that they know. 
And if they're not willing to 

624
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,320
look at other options. 
And that's all you have, right? 

625
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:29,000
So all of that coming together 
and knowing the traumas that my 

626
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,680
mom grew up with and knowing the
things that my grandma went 

627
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:36,440
through, I've, I've really been 
able to dive deep into the 

628
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:41,360
generations and part of the big 
learning for me as I, I always 

629
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:47,840
had this assumption that trauma 
is 1 experience. 

630
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:52,440
There was one bad thing that 
happened and that's almost never

631
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:56,480
the case. 
There's so many little stones 

632
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,840
that get added to the hill that 
become the mountain, right? 

633
00:36:00,240 --> 00:36:02,680
Some of them are conscious of, 
some of them are not conscious 

634
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,560
of some of our traumas are 
things that happened and some of

635
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:08,400
our traumas are things that 
didn't happen, right? 

636
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:12,640
Maybe your mom was not able to 
mother you or you know, And so 

637
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,480
looking at that on my mom's 
side, because my grandma was 

638
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:19,200
such a prolific writer and, and 
I know some of the traumas that 

639
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,320
my mom experienced and my 
grandma experienced and her mom 

640
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,480
experienced and her mom 
experienced. 

641
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,200
And just looking at all those 
little pieces of the puzzle and 

642
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:32,000
the different decades that they 
grew up in and how that has all 

643
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:37,280
trickled down to our generation 
and how our parents parented or 

644
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,400
did not parent us, right, based 
on their own abilities and 

645
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:44,480
their, how they were parented. 
And so then looking at Michael's

646
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:48,920
side, and there's a lot of 
similar traumas that happened, 

647
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:50,400
right? 
It wasn't, he didn't just have 

648
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:54,360
one trauma, it was multiple 
traumas and, and the same with 

649
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:56,520
his mom and, you know, back and 
back. 

650
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,960
So that compassion and that 
awareness that nobody wants to 

651
00:36:59,960 --> 00:37:02,160
hurt the people that they love, 
right? 

652
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,040
And I do believe that most 
people keep secrets because they

653
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:08,360
think that they're protecting 
whoever else they're protecting.

654
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:10,640
Sometimes it's yourself, 
sometimes you think you're 

655
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,520
protecting other people. 
I did the same thing, which is 

656
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,760
why my daughter was mad at me. 
And that's fine because I did 

657
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:20,640
the same thing. 
And so thinking about that and 

658
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:25,800
thinking about my mom really 
like Mama bear fiercely trying 

659
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:28,640
to protect me from whatever it 
was she thought she was 

660
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:32,440
protecting me from, whether it 
was him, whether it was the 

661
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,600
truth of their relationship, 
what, you know, whatever it was,

662
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,560
I really do believe that she was
just trying to protect me. 

663
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:42,840
And it just came out garbled 
because that's how it came out, 

664
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:44,400
right? 
I don't know. 

665
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,880
I, I wish that we could have 
talked about it, right? 

666
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:50,440
She passed in 2006. 
So there will never be those 

667
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:53,080
conversations. 
Maybe it's better. 

668
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:55,160
I don't know. 
I don't know if it's better that

669
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:58,480
I can't talk to her or not. 
You know, I, I have said to 

670
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:02,560
myself multiple times it it is 
better that he's gone because it

671
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:05,240
was like there, there wasn't 
going to be a triangulation 

672
00:38:05,240 --> 00:38:09,520
there between him and my dad. 
There was no competition there. 

673
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:13,440
When I told my dad that I had 
tested and he was like, OK. 

674
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:19,240
And I said, and I learned that 
Michael died in 1983. 

675
00:38:19,240 --> 00:38:22,280
And he goes, he did. 
And I said, yeah. 

676
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:27,600
And he goes, huh, I've thought 
all these years that he was just

677
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,120
a going to come back and steal 
my family away from me. 

678
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:33,400
Oh, wow. 
I was like, well, you didn't 

679
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:35,720
have to worry about that, dad. 
And he goes, I guess I didn't. 

680
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:41,600
So I don't mean that to sound 
like unkind. 

681
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:46,560
I'm not glad that he died so 
young, but also for my existence

682
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:50,080
and, and this process that I've 
gone through, it has just taken 

683
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:53,760
that layer away of I, I didn't 
have to think about it. 

684
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:57,320
I appreciate you taking the 
time, though, to speak about how

685
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,720
your view of your mom changed, 
because I think that that's an 

686
00:39:00,720 --> 00:39:04,480
important perspective to offer. 
And also just everything you 

687
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:08,600
said about why people keep 
secrets and that, yeah, there's 

688
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:12,200
that protective element for 
sure, whether they're protecting

689
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:15,240
themselves or if they're 
protecting their children or 

690
00:39:15,240 --> 00:39:17,080
someone else. 
It's very important. 

691
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:22,520
Yeah. 
So I follow you on Instagram and

692
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:26,760
I see all of the genealogical 
work that you do and you just 

693
00:39:27,240 --> 00:39:29,760
post these beautifully written 
posts. 

694
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:31,920
You got your grandmothers snack.
Her writing? 

695
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:32,800
I think. 
Oh, yeah. 

696
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:36,240
Thank you. 
What are you working on now and 

697
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:39,200
what are you hoping for in terms
of your relationships with your 

698
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:41,640
raised family or your newfound 
siblings? 

699
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:46,960
OK, what am I working on now? 
I'm working on scanning in all 

700
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:49,720
of my grandma's writing. 
That's been like a big project, 

701
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:52,040
and it's honestly something I 
should have done a long time 

702
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:54,440
ago. 
And I just had a block around 

703
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:56,520
it, right? 
So I have all these originals 

704
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,160
and they need to be scanned in 
to preserve them. 

705
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:01,920
And I also want to be able to 
just share them in their 

706
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:05,360
original digital form with any 
cousins that are interested. 

707
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:07,280
They're not all interested. 
Some of them are like no, I 

708
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:09,200
couldn't care less, but some of 
them are. 

709
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:14,400
So I'm working on that, working 
on pulling apart oral history 

710
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:18,960
versus documentation. 
And our minds are beautiful 

711
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:23,080
things, but we all remember 
things in different ways, and 

712
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:25,600
sometimes those different ways 
are completely incorrect. 

713
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,040
Sometimes they're woven together
with other memories. 

714
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:32,480
And so I have so much of my 
grandma's writing that is, and, 

715
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:34,160
and she was very honest about 
it. 

716
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:36,080
And the. 
The little preface to her memoir

717
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,040
is like, I did no research. 
This is just my memories. 

718
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:41,400
So like, don't come at me 
basically like that. 

719
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:43,720
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

720
00:40:43,720 --> 00:40:47,600
And so really like looking at 
what she wrote and then having 

721
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:51,440
the amazing ability to look 
things up in real time on the 

722
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:53,760
Internet. 
And so I can find birth orders 

723
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:58,440
and I can find obituaries and 
really just pulling together our

724
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:03,040
family history with both her 
writing and her accounts and 

725
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:06,080
then the actual documentation, 
which has been a lot of fun and 

726
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:07,640
a lot of her memories are spot 
on. 

727
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:11,280
But there's been birth orders 
that are wrong or little things 

728
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:15,120
here and there that maybe in the
grand scheme aren't a really big

729
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:17,640
deal. 
But I think it's important to 

730
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:19,960
find the truth in those stories 
as well, right? 

731
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:22,080
If they were important enough 
for her to write down, let's 

732
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:25,880
make sure that we have the, the 
facts correct for anybody else 

733
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:29,880
who's interested in the future. 
So I'm focusing heavily on that.

734
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:33,840
And I have started a, I'm 
calling it a heritage journal 

735
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:38,800
and basically creative 
journaling, A2 page spread for 

736
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:44,920
each of my direct ancestors. 
And I started this as a way to 

737
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:50,840
integrate the two sides of my 
biology, you know, as an NPE, 

738
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:55,440
you learn about like genetic 
mirroring and all of these terms

739
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:57,440
that I had no clue existed 
before. 

740
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:02,680
And there's still a disconnect 
between these people who are my 

741
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:04,760
kin. 
And so many of them are already 

742
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:08,440
gone, so I can't even have a 
conversation with them and, and 

743
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:12,160
who I am and what passed down 
from generation to generation. 

744
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:15,120
And I thought, OK, well, if I 
sit down with the black and 

745
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:17,520
white information, I can get off
the Internet. 

746
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,680
If I sit down with some of these
oral histories that these 

747
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:27,440
cousins have shared with me so 
gratefully and just look at both

748
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,600
sides. 
I started with my mom and then I

749
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:32,920
went to Michael. 
And then I went to her mom and 

750
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:35,480
her dad. 
And next is Michael's mom and 

751
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:37,880
dad. 
And then my intention is to go 

752
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:42,000
back through the generations as 
far as the Internet will allow 

753
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,280
me to. 
And obviously the further I go 

754
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:46,160
back, the less information I'll 
have. 

755
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:49,760
It'll be more general, right 
time periods and you know, what 

756
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:51,480
women were allowed to do and 
what not. 

757
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:56,600
But even just these few, first 
few generations have been really

758
00:42:56,600 --> 00:43:01,000
profound and just thinking about
who each of these people were, 

759
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:04,280
what their experiences were, 
what they liked, what they 

760
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:07,320
didn't like, how they dressed, 
you know, all those things. 

761
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:12,040
And, and that has been really 
healing for me in a lot of ways 

762
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:14,120
that I didn't anticipate. 
I thought it was something that 

763
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:17,080
I would like kind of whip 
through at 1st and it 

764
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:20,160
immediately became clear like 
this is this is the long game. 

765
00:43:21,240 --> 00:43:25,360
This is the long game as I look 
at each individual person with 

766
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:28,080
my mom's page, it was very 
cathartic. 

767
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:32,280
And again, with the opposing 
emotions and facts being true at

768
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:34,240
the same time. 
Like really, how do you put 

769
00:43:34,240 --> 00:43:38,880
together A2 page spread for your
mom and all of the things that 

770
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:41,120
you know about her, the good and
the bad, right? 

771
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:44,800
So that was really interesting. 
And then moving on to Michael 

772
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:48,320
and one of the greatest gifts 
that I've been given by my 

773
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:53,280
little sister, Her mom kept some
of his journaling pages a little

774
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:56,000
while after we connected. 
She was like, can you tell me 

775
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:59,440
like years and like what your 
mom was and mom's name was and 

776
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:02,200
whatnot. 
And she found pages that he had 

777
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:06,800
written specifically like to my 
mom while she was pregnant with 

778
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:09,720
me, after I was born, things 
like that. 

779
00:44:10,240 --> 00:44:15,400
And so she originally shared the
scanned copies with me and then 

780
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:19,120
she sent me the originals. 
And that was super intense for 

781
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:21,120
me. 
This is his handwriting on the 

782
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:22,320
paper that he touched. 
Wow. 

783
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:26,600
And but it was also really 
insightful where he was 

784
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:28,880
psychologically at the time, 
right? 

785
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:31,880
What his handwriting look like, 
how big his handwriting was or 

786
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:33,920
how small it got or things like 
that. 

787
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:37,960
And so for his spread, I 
included, I, I copied and shrunk

788
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:42,200
down some of those pages and I 
included that in, in both the 

789
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:44,720
hard things that he wrote. 
I'm trying to balance the 

790
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:48,840
research and documentation, the 
black and white of it all, with 

791
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:53,560
also the very real emotions that
come with all of this. 

792
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:56,600
And really doing my best to 
honor myself and honor whatever 

793
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:59,640
feelings come up in that. 
Whether it's sadness or anger or

794
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:02,240
confusion or, you know, whatever
it is. 

795
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:06,960
And just allow those to flow 
'cause this whole process is not

796
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:09,040
linear. 
It ebbs and flows all the time 

797
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:13,360
depending on what's going on and
I have been very lucky to have 

798
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:18,040
so many people on Michael's side
of the family be so giving with 

799
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:21,960
information and photos. 
There has not been a single one 

800
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:24,760
that has been like, Nope, not 
going to talk to you. 

801
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:30,080
And that's just been amazing. 
As an adult, making 

802
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:31,920
relationships with other adults 
is hard. 

803
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:34,440
I mean, you hear it all the time
on the Internet of people being 

804
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:36,720
like, how do you make friends as
a grown up? 

805
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:40,480
It's really hard. 
And so it's so hard. 

806
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:44,760
And so inserting yourself as a 
new family member into an 

807
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:47,760
established family is hard as a 
grown up. 

808
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:52,760
You don't have those same shared
foundational experiences of kids

809
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:55,920
playing together or going to 
grandma's house for holiday 

810
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:58,920
meals or anything like that. 
You're just two adults trying to

811
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:01,000
figure out if you even like each
other and if you even want to 

812
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:03,440
talk to each other. 
Like genetics aside, right? 

813
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:07,320
I have my website where I write 
blog posts. 

814
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:09,040
I have Instagram where I share 
things. 

815
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:12,760
And that's also been really 
cathartic just to put things out

816
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:17,560
there and, and have that as an 
outlet for all of the things 

817
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:22,440
family related, but also NPE and
just to hear other people's 

818
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:24,760
stories and see other people's 
reactions. 

819
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:28,400
And the family history community
is pretty small, right? 

820
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:31,160
But they're pretty fierce. 
Like, people are super 

821
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:33,600
supportive when you start 
talking about family history and

822
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:36,840
you start talking about these 
family surprises, whether 

823
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:40,160
they're direct to people or it 
was their grandpa or, you know, 

824
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:42,240
someone else in their family 
that had a surprise. 

825
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:45,480
And so it's been really nice to 
not only share things that are 

826
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:48,280
well received, but to also learn
from other people what their 

827
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:51,680
experiences are and how they're 
doing things and how we're all 

828
00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:55,200
just trying to walk each other 
home, honestly. 

829
00:46:55,720 --> 00:46:59,800
I love following you and reading
the things that you write 

830
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:05,960
because there it's such a 
beautiful perspective on history

831
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:11,720
and lineage and the way that we 
carry things from our ancestors.

832
00:47:11,720 --> 00:47:15,640
And I just, I love all of it. 
So if people wanted to find you,

833
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:19,120
where would they go? 
To your website or Instagram? 

834
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:21,960
So Bolden queer.com. 
And then my handle is Bolden 

835
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:26,360
Queer, and that name actually 
comes from my great grandma 

836
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:33,280
Hannah, who was raised as a 
Quaker, but she was a little 

837
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:35,120
more adventurous than her mother
liked. 

838
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:37,360
And this is all based on my 
grandma's writing. 

839
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:43,000
So her mom would say, Hannah, 
thee is being bold and queer. 

840
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:45,800
And that was those were not good
things. 

841
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:49,800
Being bold as independent and 
strong and willing to take risks

842
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:53,480
and queer at the time was not 
LGBTQ queer. 

843
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:57,640
It was your strange and unusual 
and you're doing things you 

844
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:02,160
shouldn't be doing right. 
And so I really wanted to honor 

845
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:05,960
Hannah and just honor our 
lineage and pulling, you know, 

846
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:09,320
present and past together. 
And I call it folding time. 

847
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:14,240
And so I, I landed on bold and 
queer and it's a good 

848
00:48:14,240 --> 00:48:16,320
conversation starter. 
People are like what? 

849
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:20,520
Oh, I love that. 
I didn't know the back story of 

850
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:24,120
the name, but I love that. 
I love a double entendre so. 

851
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:29,560
Yeah, right. 
Yeah, what advice do you have 

852
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:33,440
for a parent who's keeping adna 
surprise from their child? 

853
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:40,360
I would say to suck it up and 
just tell the truth. 

854
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:46,960
I know that that takes a level 
of strength and self-awareness 

855
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:53,680
that is incredibly challenging. 
And I also know as an N P/E I 

856
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:56,560
wouldn't want it any other way 
knowing the truth. 

857
00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:04,600
Both for medical reasons as well
As for really kinship I think is

858
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:07,840
very important. 
And truly knowing who we are and

859
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:11,320
where we come from. 
The nature versus nurture 

860
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:16,440
paradigm, gosh, I've learned a 
lot about that in the last five 

861
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:21,520
years. 
And to see myself reflected in 

862
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:27,960
these strangers that are my 
family has been just really awe 

863
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:30,800
inspiring. 
I may have thought that one 

864
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:34,880
aspect of my personality or 
being came from just my mom's 

865
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:37,280
side because I didn't have 
anything else to compare it to, 

866
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:39,120
right? 
I just knew that my dad who 

867
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:41,280
raised me, nobody on that side 
did any of those things. 

868
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:42,920
So surely that came from my 
mom's side. 

869
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:45,720
And then to see, oh, actually 
no. 

870
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:49,800
And have cousins say you right, 
just like grandpa. 

871
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:54,120
Oh my gosh, you take photos just
like uncle. 

872
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:56,360
Oh my gosh. 
Like what? 

873
00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:59,440
OK, so I think that it's it's 
important. 

874
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:01,960
And I know that it's scary. 
And I say that without fully 

875
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:04,520
knowing that it's scary. 
But I know that the conversation

876
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:07,960
with my daughter about her 
grandpa was was pretty 

877
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:10,760
devastating. 
So I can imagine how hard that 

878
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:13,520
would be. 
And I would still say just suck 

879
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:16,200
it up and tell the truth, that 
everyone deserves the truth. 

880
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:20,680
What advice do you have for 
someone who just uncovered a DNA

881
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:25,640
surprise? 
Take a deep breath, Take a very 

882
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:32,200
deep breath and know that none 
of it is your fault and know 

883
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:35,120
that nothing has to be done 
immediately. 

884
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:42,160
This is on your time frame. 
And go gently and trust that 

885
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:45,520
everything that you uncover is 
exactly what needs to be 

886
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:53,880
uncovered and you are whole and 
loved and a wonderful human, no 

887
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:58,840
matter what choices were made 
before you or maybe continue to 

888
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:02,480
be made around you. 
I think that through all of 

889
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:08,640
this, one of my biggest lessons 
has been that we're we're truly 

890
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:14,560
never alone on our paths. 
And as hard as things are, as 

891
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:20,160
scary as they are, as shocking 
as information can be, you're 

892
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:22,240
never alone. 
There's always going to be 

893
00:51:22,240 --> 00:51:26,360
somebody who has your back. 
And that I, I believe that that 

894
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:29,080
can be in the physical world and
that can also be in the 

895
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:33,200
ancestors coming forward and 
supporting you in ways that you 

896
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:35,240
might not even be aware of, 
right? 

897
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:42,880
And so I think that the only way
through is through and going 

898
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:46,840
gently with yourself so that 
you're able to process and heal 

899
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:50,600
and move forward and then share 
as you can, right? 

900
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:54,200
Not everybody wants to share, 
but I really feel like being 

901
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:57,280
able to talk to people like you 
is so healing. 

902
00:51:57,520 --> 00:52:01,760
And for people to hear about 
people like us is so healing. 

903
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:06,000
And we live in a very unique 
time where technology has 

904
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:10,120
allowed us to learn a lot about 
our families that we would have 

905
00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:13,040
never known before. 
These secrets would have never 

906
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:16,480
come out before. 
And so it's a lot it, it can be 

907
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:18,800
very healing and it can be very 
intense. 

908
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:22,240
And I honestly wouldn't have it 
any other way. 

909
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:26,200
I, I really am glad that I know 
the truth. 

910
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:29,640
I'm really glad that I've met 
all of the people that I've met.

911
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:35,840
And I'm really glad to have 
gained the perspective around my

912
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:40,680
conception and how my mom may 
have processed that throughout 

913
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:44,520
her life, right? 
And I think that that's really 

914
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:46,800
special as much as it is 
painful. 

915
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:49,560
It's really special to to have 
that awareness and that 

916
00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:53,520
knowledge and to know that I'm 
standing in my truth and to know

917
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:56,960
that I'm not responsible for 
everybody else's feelings. 

918
00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:01,680
Yeah, that I can. 
I can walk forward in in 

919
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:04,960
strength and in grace and know 
that everybody else is gonna be 

920
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:07,760
OK too. 
That's important. 

921
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:11,320
Oh, that was so well said. 
Melissa, thank you so much for 

922
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:13,800
joining me and sharing your 
story. 

923
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:15,920
The work that you're doing is so
incredible. 

924
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:20,120
Looking back across so many 
generations of your family and 

925
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:23,080
then the way that you've 
processed your own NPE is just 

926
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:26,680
really inspiring. 
I will be sure to link Melissa's

927
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:29,800
information in the show notes 
for anyone who's listening and 

928
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:33,360
wants to find her. 
But thank you again and I just 

929
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:35,600
wish you the best. 
Thank you. 

930
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:38,680
Thank you so much. 
Thanks again to Melissa for 

931
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:41,920
sharing her story. 
If you have Adna Surprise that 

932
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:44,520
you'd like to share, please 
submit your story at 

933
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:48,840
dnasurprises.com. 
And remember, for early access 

934
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:54,120
to ad free episodes, join me 
over on patreon@patreon.com/DNA 

935
00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:56,400
Surprises. 
Until next time. 

936
00:53:57,000 --> 00:54:01,920
This episode of DNA Surprises 
was hosted, produced and edited 

937
00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:06,440
by me Alexis Ourselt. 
It was mixed and mastered by 

938
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:09,720
Josh Ourselt of Siren Recording 
Studios.