1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,960 I hear a car pull up and I peek out and it wasn't like a nice 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:07,920 car, a Cadillac. And this man gets out and he 3 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:10,440 looks familiar. I had the same kind of thought, 4 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:12,280 but I didn't remember this as the man I'd see. 5 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:16,760 And I just thought, well, this is somebody who looks familiar. 6 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:24,240 And like I said, he's the the kindest, warmest, most wonderful 7 00:00:24,240 --> 00:00:27,680 person. My mom introduces me to him and 8 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:30,160 he takes us out to this nice steakhouse. 9 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:33,080 If we go out to dinner, it's fast food. 10 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:37,120 If we sit down at Denny's, I don't know what to order. 11 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:39,480 You know, he orders prime rib for me. 12 00:00:39,480 --> 00:00:40,440 He's like, do you like prime rib? 13 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:44,480 I have no idea. We would drink water. 14 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:48,280 He orders me a Shirley Temple. And then he's just keeps coming 15 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:52,800 around and he starts coming to my softball games, and he's just 16 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:57,360 this warm, kind presence in our lives. 17 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:01,080 And he's just present for all of us for years. 18 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:05,280 What was I then? 1415, maybe. 19 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:09,520 And so that was another thought I had there sitting in the car. 20 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:16,360 All this time, he has been enjoying being present in his 21 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:20,840 daughter's life. And I have seen him as another 22 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:23,400 in a long line of substitute deaths. 23 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:27,760 Welcome to DNA Surprises, a podcast that delves into the 24 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:30,440 world of unexpected DNA discoveries. 25 00:01:30,960 --> 00:01:36,920 I'm your host, Alexis ourselves. In July 2021, my life took a 26 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:41,800 surprising turn when I found out that I'm an NPE, a person who 27 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:44,640 has experienced a non paternal event. 28 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:49,200 In other words, my biological father isn't who I thought he 29 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:52,200 was. Join me as we explore the 30 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:57,280 stories of NP, ES, adoptees, and donor conceived people and their 31 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:00,080 families. Get ready to unravel the 32 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:04,240 astonishing journeys that begin with a simple DNA test. 33 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:11,640 This is DNA surprises. If you've had Adna surprise, how 34 00:02:11,640 --> 00:02:14,120 many times have you been told that you should write a book? 35 00:02:14,920 --> 00:02:18,800 This week's episode is a story that is truly stranger than 36 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,960 fiction. Tracy shares how, at 19, her 37 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:25,480 mother revealed the truth about her paternity. 38 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:30,480 This truth sent Tracy reeling, but her mother insisted that she 39 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:34,120 always knew it. Her mom went on to explain the 40 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,000 events that led them to that moment. 41 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:41,000 It's a story straight out of a true crime novel, and Tracy 42 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:44,560 didn't remember any of it. Tracy goes on to share what 43 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:48,400 happened after the revelation, including how she moved forward 44 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:52,720 with her parents, who married just a few years after her DNA 45 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:56,720 surprise. Thank you Tracy for sharing your 46 00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:01,400 story. My name is Tracy, I'm 56 and I'm 47 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:05,960 from Seattle, WA. My DNA surprise story started 48 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:11,080 when I was almost 19, so just a couple weeks before I was 19 49 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:15,600 years old and there was so much excitement going on that time. 50 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:20,040 It was a couple of weeks before I was getting married and also 51 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:25,360 my brother was preparing for the trials to be on the World 52 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:27,840 Wrestling team, the World USA Wrestling team. 53 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:32,760 So there was a ton to be excited about in our family, which is 54 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:35,840 really relevant because it kind of masked that my mom was just a 55 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:39,720 little bit off and distracted, which is unlike her. 56 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:43,520 She she has always been so vested in everything all of us 57 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:47,080 were doing. So the wrestling trials were in 58 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:50,640 over Memorial Day weekend in the San Francisco Bay Area. 59 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:54,320 And so all of you, like my birthday on the wedding and 60 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:57,240 everything was the end of June. But my mom and I were taking a 61 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:01,720 road trip down to watch my brother in these wrestling 62 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:05,880 trials, which was very exciting. And I hadn't seen him in almost 63 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:09,480 a year, which I never went that long without seeing him, even 64 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:12,480 when he lived in Europe. We're just really, really close. 65 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:15,720 I just would show up at his house, wherever he lived all 66 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:18,920 over the world. And so I was super excited to 67 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:22,120 see him. And this road trip started off 68 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:26,680 and somewhere along the way, kind of right on the Oregon, 69 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:30,000 California border, my mom started up like really 70 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:34,280 intentionally started up this conversation about being really 71 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:38,600 remorseful that my dad wasn't going to be at the wedding. 72 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:41,440 And she, you know, was trying to reassure me this was going to be 73 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:46,920 OK, Which seemed really out of the blue because I hadn't had 74 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:52,680 any communication with my dad in over six or seven years at that 75 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:55,400 point. So there was 0 expectation on my 76 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:57,320 part that he would be at my wedding. 77 00:04:58,280 --> 00:05:01,480 It was just not, not even on the radar at all. 78 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:03,520 So I'm like, why are you bringing this up? 79 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:07,280 That seems so bizarre. And how did he kind of leave 80 00:05:07,280 --> 00:05:10,000 your life, you know, six to seven years earlier? 81 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:16,240 He left our lives when we were much younger. 82 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:22,000 It was probably when I was six or seven, he moved to Alaska and 83 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:25,200 he was remarried. So his wife and you know, we had 84 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,760 step siblings, but they lived in Alaska so we rarely saw him. 85 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:32,760 We meeting my two older siblings and I went to Alaska for the 86 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:35,560 whole month of July when I was 9 to visit them. 87 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:39,080 And then that was really the last contact we had with him. 88 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:45,800 That was a really awful trip. And then he came back one time. 89 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:49,480 I remember when I was 12, he would just show up out of but we 90 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:51,280 never had any idea that he was coming. 91 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:55,160 And then he came to my brother's wedding. 92 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:57,960 But bizarrely, we didn't know he was going to come. 93 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:02,560 He stood in the back. And, you know, you just only 94 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:04,400 remember things through your own lens. 95 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:06,920 But I remember he just awkwardly said hi to me. 96 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:11,360 Like, like, he kind of shook my hand as a 12 year old, just 97 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:15,240 like, OK, but I mean, that's, that's my dad. 98 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:19,640 But I hadn't seen him then in three years, and that was the 99 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:23,480 last time that I had had any communication with him at all. 100 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:27,600 OK, my sister, who's between my brother and me and age, had 101 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:31,200 moved to Alaska to live with him in the middle of high school. 102 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:35,440 And she only stayed in his home for like 6 weeks before he 103 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:38,200 kicked her out and and she went to live with someone else. 104 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:42,560 So he's he was just not a great dad ever. 105 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:46,440 So it was really bizarre for my mom to bring this up. 106 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:50,480 Like I was somehow heartbroken and had these secret dreams that 107 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:53,280 he would show up. It just wasn't a part of it at 108 00:06:53,280 --> 00:06:57,200 all for me. And she'd said, you know, I, I 109 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:59,520 just don't want you to feel like there's this dark cloud over 110 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:01,040 your wedding because your dad's not going to be there. 111 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:03,880 And I'm like, there's just not like I just didn't have that 112 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:07,000 expectation. And she'd said that Marco is 113 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:11,200 going to be there now. Marco was just like a lifelong 114 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:13,720 family friend, someone we'd kind of known. 115 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:16,120 Like, I didn't even know why, but we'd just always known this 116 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,720 person. And then my mom started dating 117 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:22,280 him when I was 16, and we all just love him. 118 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:26,440 He's amazing. And so he was going to be there. 119 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:28,960 He was going to just kind of stand in. 120 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:34,680 And it was really fantastic. And so I'm like, yeah, I know 121 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:36,840 all of this. Like, this is so crazy. 122 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:40,000 Why are you forcing this conversation? 123 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:42,720 And I was like, yeah, I know. I appreciate that. 124 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:45,200 It's great. And she's she waited like, I was 125 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:46,960 going to add something to this conversation. 126 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:50,920 And she said, well, you need to know that my dad, the person I 127 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:54,280 believe is my dad, you need to know he's not your father. 128 00:07:56,000 --> 00:08:00,920 Marco is. And I was, like, stunned. 129 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:03,800 I couldn't really, like, breathe. 130 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:06,760 I couldn't, like, hear her anymore. 131 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:10,760 It was just almost like, like on, you know, Charlie Brown. 132 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:15,320 Like, there was this voice continuing to talk, but I was 133 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:20,200 just not able to even take in what she was saying. 134 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:23,040 And I was having a hard time breathing or just staring out 135 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:28,440 the windshield just like, what? What did she just say to me? 136 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:32,600 This was a total surprise. Had you ever suspected or even 137 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:34,960 wished that Marco was your biological father? 138 00:08:35,039 --> 00:08:37,919 Never. I mean, I had no idea. 139 00:08:37,919 --> 00:08:42,960 This was the most far fetched thing that I could have ever. 140 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:47,360 It just never crossed my mind. And she was looking at me like, 141 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:50,920 why are you behaving so bizarrely, like you knew this. 142 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:53,680 I did not know this. I don't know what? 143 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:57,040 Why do you think I absolutely do not know this? 144 00:08:57,560 --> 00:09:02,360 She, she was just like, oh, come on, you're being so dramatic. 145 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:05,880 And then I like that kind of snapped me back into the 146 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:09,600 conversation that I became so angry that she was just like, 147 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:14,040 oh, please, like, I do not know this. 148 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:18,040 I have never known this. Why do you think I know this? 149 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:20,880 She's like, you knew this until you were five. 150 00:09:21,560 --> 00:09:24,560 You knew this every day of your life until you were five. 151 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:26,680 We just thought you didn't want to talk about it. 152 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:32,640 I'm like, if that's true, you let A5 year old decide that she 153 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:34,120 just didn't want to talk about it. 154 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:40,720 For the last 13 years, you let a child make that decision. 155 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:42,600 I was just utterly beside myself. 156 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,320 I couldn't even come up with the questions. 157 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:48,440 They were coming to my mind so fast I couldn't get them out of 158 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:51,560 my mouth. How did I come to believe that? 159 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:53,960 You know, my brother and sister's dad is my dad. 160 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:57,640 I've seen my birth certificate, his name is on my birth 161 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:00,680 certificate. So what's the story like? 162 00:10:00,680 --> 00:10:04,480 What happened? You need to start from absolute 163 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:08,040 beginning because I don't know any of this. 164 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:14,080 So she starts from the beginning that she was married and had my 165 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:18,960 brother and sister and then she and her husband separated and 166 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:22,160 she went to work for my dad who was married and had two kids. 167 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:25,160 And then eventually they started a relationship. 168 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:30,360 She became pregnant with me, which ended her marriage to my 169 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:32,280 brother and sister dad because they were separated. 170 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:35,080 But when she became pregnant with me, it became clear that 171 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:39,200 this this marriage is officially and and formally and finally 172 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:42,720 over. But my dad didn't leave his 173 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:45,680 family, he stayed married and had his two kids and she 174 00:10:45,680 --> 00:10:50,080 continued working for him and they had me and I just started 175 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:51,880 going to work with her every day. 176 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:57,680 So my dad owned 2 Taverns and she was his bookkeeper and she 177 00:10:57,680 --> 00:11:00,320 brought me to work there during the day when they weren't open 178 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:03,600 because way back then Taverns weren't open during the day. 179 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:09,520 And I just grew up, you know, from emphasize to childhood 180 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:13,880 until I was 5, seeing him every day and knowing him as my dad. 181 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:18,920 During that early time when my mom was working for him and I 182 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:24,560 was little, he was working with a very good friend of his who 183 00:11:24,560 --> 00:11:29,040 was the chief of police in the town who was trying to catch 184 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:31,960 some corrupt police officers who were involved in the drug ring. 185 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:36,360 And he thought, you know, maybe this might be going on in your 186 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:39,080 establishment. They won't realize that you're 187 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:41,080 watching for me. If you could just keep your eye 188 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:44,840 out. And sure enough, my dad saw this 189 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:48,000 going on and told his friend at the Police Department. 190 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:52,720 And those four officers were arrested and stood trial and 191 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:55,800 were convicted. And they knew that was my dad, 192 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:58,560 who was the source of that information. 193 00:11:58,560 --> 00:12:02,480 So even from prison, they were watching and waiting for some 194 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:08,480 opportunity to retaliate. And so when I was 5, my mom kind 195 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:14,600 of got tired of waiting around for for him to leave his wife 196 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:18,640 and leave his family and all the things that that, you know, she 197 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:20,960 was being told those empty promises. 198 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:25,880 Did his wife and family know about their relationship and 199 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:28,720 you? It's unclear to me if his wife 200 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:30,440 knew. I have an inkling that she 201 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:35,280 probably had some idea. I know that his brother knew 202 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:38,800 because he was a part of their business, but the rest of his 203 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:43,560 family had no idea. To this day, some of his family 204 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:46,440 don't know that I exist. OK. 205 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:51,000 When I was 5, my mom ended that relationship. 206 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:55,240 She quit working for him. She got a different job and in 207 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:58,960 the same window of time, maybe in the same month's time, his 208 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:03,400 mother passed away. His mother, who he was maybe too 209 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,800 close to and extremely protective of. 210 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:12,560 So in the same month he'd lost my mom, he'd lost contact with 211 00:13:12,560 --> 00:13:16,240 me, and he'd lost his mother. And he had what then? 212 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:18,520 They would have called like a nervous breakdown. 213 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:22,920 And so these officers from prison had had people watching 214 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:27,440 for an opportunity to retaliate. And they said, now's the time. 215 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:30,600 Now that he's just not really very stable. 216 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:35,680 My mom had met someone new at her new job who would later 217 00:13:35,680 --> 00:13:40,920 become my stepdad and they hired someone to go to my dad and say 218 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:45,240 this new man in their lives is abusing your daughter. 219 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:48,520 And this man offered to kill him. 220 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:50,760 They said it, I will kill him for you. 221 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:56,480 And my dad, not in his right mind, said yes, I will hire you 222 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:59,920 to do that. So he provided a gun and he 223 00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:06,440 provided the money, but what he did is he got $1000 and he tore 224 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:09,760 each of the bills in half. And it's like, here's half and 225 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:13,000 you can have the other half when it's carried out. 226 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:18,440 So because behind all of this were police officers, they were 227 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:23,040 able to tip off the police through all these back channels 228 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:30,040 that my dad had hired a hit man to kill my stepdad. 229 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:34,040 So the police came to us. They informed my parents that 230 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:37,320 this was happening. And this I remember, they took 231 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:41,560 us into police custody. They hit us away for several 232 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:43,720 days. I don't remember because now I'm 233 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:46,680 5, right? So maybe three, maybe four days, 234 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:50,680 we had to stay in this really, really lousy hotel. 235 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:52,560 We couldn't even open the curtains. 236 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:57,200 And then my father was arrested and he was held in jail where he 237 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:59,520 was beaten. And mercifully, he told me 238 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:05,240 later, because the police again were exacting revenge and he 239 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:08,040 didn't have money for bail. So he had to stay in jail for 240 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:11,720 months and months until his trial where he was tried for 241 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:14,800 attempted murder. But he was found innocent by 242 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:18,560 reason of entrapment because the crime was conceived of in the 243 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:24,400 mind of the police. But that is when all contact 244 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:26,400 with me and with my mom was severed. 245 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:30,480 Because you can imagine, my stepdad did not want him coming 246 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:32,720 around. He underwent a lot of 247 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:35,720 psychological care. He was not well. 248 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:39,560 As I spent a lot of time processing and looking back over 249 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:44,480 I, I knew this thinking through. Should I have ever figured that 250 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:47,160 out? There were times because we 251 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:51,400 still lived in the same town. He lived about 20 minutes away 252 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:55,360 from us. There were two times that we 253 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:59,120 accidentally ran into him just out and about. 254 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:04,000 One time in particular, when I was 8 and I had fallen down ice 255 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,800 skating and I had cut my chin open and I needed stitches. 256 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:12,120 But, you know, just a, a minor surface cut on your chin bleeds 257 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,600 like crazy. So my shirt and my jeans were 258 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:19,000 covered in blood. My mom had taken me to the 259 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:21,920 emergency room and I had stitches, but I had a bandage 260 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:25,800 from eyebrow under my chin up to eyebrow, and I'm covered in 261 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:28,800 blood. And I talked her into taking me 262 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:32,840 to Dairy Queen to get some ice cream because I had undergone 263 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,040 this traumatic event of getting stitches. 264 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:39,800 And he was in that Dairy Queen with his older two children on 265 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:43,320 this Friday night. And we walk in, and he hasn't 266 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:48,960 seen me now in three years. And I'm show up with this huge 267 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:52,880 bandage covered in blood. And I have this distinct memory 268 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:56,880 of this man just, like, clearing the way, pushing people out of 269 00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,320 the way to get to us. Like, what happened to her? 270 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:02,680 Is she OK? And I thought it was so cool 271 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:05,200 that I had this big bench and I'm covered in blood and I 272 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,560 wanted to go in and make sure everybody saw me for all the 273 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:09,200 attention. Get attention, Yeah. 274 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:12,119 And my, and I made my mom promise like, we can get ice 275 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:14,680 cream and we can go in and we can eat it there, right? 276 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,800 And she's like, yes, yes, yes, Oh my gosh, this is ridiculous. 277 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:24,000 But when he saw us and came across the restroom, instantly 278 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:26,400 we had to go. We couldn't get ice cream. 279 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:30,640 We couldn't stay. It's too late and we left and I 280 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,640 was miffed, you know, 8 year old me, he's like what the heck, you 281 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:36,040 promised like what? See you said we could get ice 282 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:41,000 cream, but only in looking back at it like I was like, oh, that 283 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:43,880 makes sense. But at the time I just thought, 284 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:47,040 well, he looks familiar and why do we have to go? 285 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:51,000 But it it just didn't register. I didn't recognize him other 286 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:55,160 than he looks familiar. My mind, I think just protected 287 00:17:55,160 --> 00:18:01,360 me from from all of that. At some point he re enters your 288 00:18:01,360 --> 00:18:04,800 life. And how does like This is 289 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:08,600 stranger than fiction? So. 290 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:14,320 He goes from spending time in jail for attempted murder 291 00:18:14,360 --> 00:18:17,880 against your stepfather. All this time from, you know, 292 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:19,760 one to five. You know that he's your 293 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:21,520 biological father, according to your mother. 294 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:25,640 Obviously that is a very traumatic series of events that 295 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:28,560 happens to you and at some point you forget that he's your 296 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:30,640 biological father. Yeah. 297 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:36,760 And then 1413, fourteen years later, he's brought up again. 298 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:38,360 He's going to be at your wedding. 299 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:40,520 He's back. Yeah, he's back. 300 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:45,360 My mom and stepdad divorced when I was about 13. 301 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,960 And then shortly thereafter, my sister had moved to Alaska. 302 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,840 My brother graduated and went off to college and then joined 303 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:55,000 the Army. And it was just me and my mom at 304 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:56,640 home. And, you know, we were just 305 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:58,800 having a great time, just the two of us. 306 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:04,800 And then I remember coming home from softball practice and my 307 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:06,960 mom said, you have to, you have to get dressed quickly. 308 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:09,400 We're leaving, leaving. We just got home. 309 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:12,760 She's like, well, we're a friend of mine is coming to take us out 310 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:14,680 to dinner. Like, my mom didn't date. 311 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:18,360 She wasn't a dater. She was dedicated to us. 312 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:21,760 And like, really, And now she was dedicated to me, really. 313 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:23,680 She was just at everything I did. 314 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:25,520 When she wasn't working, she was there. 315 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:29,080 And it it was the most unusual thing in the world. 316 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,000 Like what? And we didn't go out either. 317 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:35,160 I mean, my mom was a single mom working really hard, but she 318 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:37,320 worked in a grocery store. So we didn't have a lot of 319 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:39,240 extra. We had everything we needed, but 320 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:42,200 not a lot extra. And so we didn't go out to eat. 321 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:45,240 And so I hear, I'm in my room trying to get dressed. 322 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:47,680 I hear a car pull up and I peek out. 323 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:50,760 And it wasn't like a nice car, a Cadillac. 324 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:54,400 And this man gets out. And I think, let's eat with a 325 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:57,600 man Like what? And he looks familiar. 326 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:00,280 I had the same kind of thought, but I didn't remember this as 327 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:02,280 the man I'd see. And I just thought, well, this 328 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:08,720 is somebody who looks familiar. And like I said, he's the the 329 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:13,520 kindest, warmest, most wonderful person. 330 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:17,800 My mom introduces me to him, and he takes us out to this nice 331 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:20,760 steakhouse. If we go out to dinner, it's 332 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:23,360 fast food. If we sit down at Denny's. 333 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:27,560 I don't know what to order. You know, he orders prime rib 334 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:28,840 for me. He's like, do you like prime 335 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:31,120 rib? I have no idea. 336 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:34,920 We would drink water. He orders me a Shirley Temple. 337 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:38,680 And then he's just keeps coming around and he starts coming to 338 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:45,520 my softball games and he's just this warm, kind presence in our 339 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,120 lives. And he's just present for all of 340 00:20:48,120 --> 00:20:50,760 us for years. What was I then? 341 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:56,400 1415, maybe? And so that was another thought 342 00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:02,120 I had there sitting in the car. All this time, he has been 343 00:21:02,120 --> 00:21:05,840 enjoying being present in his daughter's life. 344 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:11,400 And I have seen him as another in a long line of substitute 345 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,920 deaths. For example, when I was a senior 346 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:19,520 in high school, I was elected to be homecoming queen, which is a 347 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:25,400 great honor that I did not want because I was the only person of 348 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:29,280 all of the freshmen and the sophomores and the juniors and 349 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:34,680 the people in my class on the guys and the girls who didn't 350 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,800 have their parent there with them. 351 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:41,640 I was the only one with a substitute death and just 352 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:45,600 standing there in the line. I was just embarrassed, you 353 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,640 know, and I was just like, I always have a substitute dad. 354 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:50,800 Was he there? Was he was. 355 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:53,280 There with me. He was there with me to escort 356 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:58,480 me and he knew that he was there to escort his daughter. 357 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:03,280 But I was embarrassed and I wish I had wished that my friend had 358 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:05,200 won because it was kind of between the two of us. 359 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:09,920 And I was like, I just wish that this was her because her dad had 360 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:13,920 often been my substitute dad. Her dad like taught me how to 361 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:17,360 drive a stick shift and had had done so many things that dads do 362 00:22:17,360 --> 00:22:20,560 for their kids. I had kind of confessed that to 363 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:22,680 another friend. She's like, you don't even seem 364 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:25,800 excited about this. I'm like, to be honest, I wish 365 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:30,560 this was you or one of the other people because you don't know 366 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:32,400 how bad it feels because you have your dad. 367 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:34,640 Just like, are you kidding? You have you have Marco. 368 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:39,360 I'm like, he's fantastic, but it's not the same. 369 00:22:39,360 --> 00:22:41,160 I would just rather cheer for you. 370 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:46,240 So those kinds of things were just hurtful looking back on. 371 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:51,640 Do you think that your mom believed that you knew this, or 372 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:56,000 do you think that she believed that you didn't know that Marco 373 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,360 was your dad? I mean, I know once kind of 374 00:22:58,360 --> 00:23:02,480 confronted, she's like, of course you knew, but do you 375 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:04,600 think she knew? I really think she thought 376 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:08,680 somewhere inside of me, I did, because she would never 377 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,360 willingly hurt me. She just wouldn't. 378 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:13,840 That's not who she is. That's not the mom she's ever 379 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,160 been. And I think she thought she was 380 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,560 always doing what was best for me, she said. 381 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:24,360 I just never found a time that seemed right, that wouldn't be 382 00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:28,520 so disruptive to an adolescent's life. 383 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:32,600 I always thought maybe now why don't she's doing so well. 384 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:34,720 I don't want to disrupt her life. 385 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:36,560 I don't want to cause her any trouble. 386 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,720 So she didn't want to like check in and and say you, you know 387 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:44,680 this, right? You do know this when you had 388 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:48,520 this conversation in the car, She just told you everything 389 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:52,080 about the whole Hitman jail story. 390 00:23:52,360 --> 00:23:56,560 That is so much to take in. Which of course as a 5 year old 391 00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,280 I I didn't know about. I think, well they sorted 392 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:03,560 everything out and then we just went on with our lives. 393 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:08,680 There was a lot that happened in our lives that of course, having 394 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,680 this person who I thought was my dad, who was not a great dad, 395 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,840 who was always absent and always away. 396 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:21,120 He's an alcoholic. So that was developed in me and 397 00:24:21,120 --> 00:24:24,360 my siblings. A lot of coping mechanisms that 398 00:24:24,360 --> 00:24:28,000 children of Alcoholics developed, you know, of trying 399 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:32,400 to please and trying to be very good, trying to do everything 400 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:37,080 you can to make sure that you're the one who's keeping the peace. 401 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:41,120 And all of those coping mechanisms were still very much 402 00:24:41,120 --> 00:24:45,360 intact because my stepfather was also an alcoholic and living in 403 00:24:45,360 --> 00:24:49,080 the home with him really reinforced all of those coping 404 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:52,080 mechanisms. And I would be remiss if I 405 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:56,680 didn't say that at that same time, right around 5 years old 406 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:01,920 is when I went to church with my neighbors and I came to my own 407 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:06,880 Christian faith that that was such an anchor to me throughout 408 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:12,600 this because I, you know, I just found a way to always like take 409 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:14,440 a bus. There was this church had a bus 410 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,280 to Sunday school. And when that stopped, there was 411 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:22,280 a bus to Awana. And without that faith, I really 412 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:28,160 don't know how I would have survived all of that turmoil 413 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:32,760 because it was such an anchor to be able to tell myself I am 414 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:36,680 loved no matter what with who I thought was my dad in Alaska 415 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:41,600 being so particularly mean to me. 416 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:46,000 Like that trip to Alaska because he knew I wasn't his. 417 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:50,160 And for some reason he went along with this charade. 418 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,560 He agreed to having my name put on his birth certificate. 419 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:58,480 My mom said, in fact, it was his idea because one day when he was 420 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,440 picking up and dropping off my older brother and sister, he's 421 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,360 like, what are you going to do with this third child? 422 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,000 I mean, clearly you're on your own. 423 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,560 And she said, I don't know. And he said, you know, what you 424 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:12,440 should do is you should just give that child my name. 425 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,480 You have three kids. They're all the same. 426 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,560 So 1 isn't being raised differently. 427 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:18,600 And she thought, you know what, you're right. 428 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,360 And so she did that. That's where the idea came from 429 00:26:21,360 --> 00:26:23,360 to put his name on my birth certificate. 430 00:26:23,360 --> 00:26:27,320 And he went along with it. I don't know how I came to 431 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:31,440 believe he was my dad. I mean, just one time he came to 432 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:33,520 pick up my brother and sister. I was like, can I go? 433 00:26:34,120 --> 00:26:37,000 Can I come along? And they're all like, sure, 434 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:42,200 what's one more, you know, and. I mean, you were so young, you 435 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:47,240 were so young, and memory is just weird anyway, when you're 436 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,040 that age and and then you believe what you want to 437 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,800 believe, and you do. If nobody tells you any 438 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,720 different, it's easy to kind of make up a story and stick with 439 00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:58,160 it. Wow. 440 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:03,040 And I asked my mom, like, why would you send me to Alaska for 441 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,440 a month to be with people who are not my parents? 442 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,960 And she said it was never my intention that you would go. 443 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,240 You were so young. I thought we would get there. 444 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,160 We would get to the airport and you'd be like, no, I don't want 445 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:16,280 to go. And I would say, OK, you don't 446 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:17,560 have to. And I'd bring you back home with 447 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,120 me again. You left this to a child, such a 448 00:27:20,120 --> 00:27:22,880 happenstance. But when we got to the airport, 449 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,240 you were so excited. You jumped on that plane. 450 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,680 And I thought, well, she always loves to go. 451 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:33,680 Like I never really let her know until really until recently when 452 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,960 I wrote about all of this, she didn't really know what I 453 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,280 endured there, which isn't entirely fair to her because 454 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:42,520 like I said, she would never intentionally hurt me. 455 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:46,560 So my our birthdays, my brother's birthday is 8 days 456 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:49,880 before mine and my sister's birthday is 10 days after mine. 457 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,320 So it's like this little festival of birthdays. 458 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,080 And we arrived there on my birthday. 459 00:27:56,040 --> 00:28:00,200 And when we got to their tiny little home, there was a 460 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,840 birthday party set up. There were decorations. 461 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:07,080 There was a cake. And I being 9, I assumed, like, 462 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,480 this is my birthday party. And it was for my brother. 463 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,960 I mean, only his name was on the cake, and there was only a gift 464 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,360 for him. And then naively, I was like, 465 00:28:16,360 --> 00:28:20,960 hey, it's my birthday today. And they made it very clear, 466 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:24,680 like, we know and we don't care. You don't get a birthday, which 467 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,560 was devastating. And then ten days later, the 468 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,640 same thing for my sister, a huge birthday party and they got her 469 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:36,760 ears pierced for her. And, and then my stepmom, who is 470 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:40,480 particularly cruelly sighted, we're going to tell the stories 471 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:44,880 of when everyone was born. My dad, or, you know, then who I 472 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,920 thought was my dad, started with the story of my brother's birth, 473 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:51,840 which was very dramatic. He was almost 11 lbs and my mom 474 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,680 was in intensive care. And it was, you know, just very 475 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:59,200 dramatic story. And then my sister, like, well, 476 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:00,960 tell me about me when I was born. 477 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,040 He's like, well, I got to go in the delivery room by then. 478 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:08,120 And I got to see you be born. And it was amazing to see you 479 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:11,080 come like, right when you're born and the first breath of 480 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,720 life and all these details. And then he was done telling the 481 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:16,280 stories. And I said, well, wait, what 482 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,880 about when I was born? Tell me about when I was born. 483 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:20,960 And he looked at me. He said, I didn't know you were 484 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:25,280 born for three weeks. And I didn't care, just 485 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,960 devastated 'cause I thought that was my dad. 486 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:30,080 I'm. So sorry. 487 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,920 So you go 10 years from that point. 488 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,600 I mean, he was already not really involved in your life 489 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:42,040 anyway, but you go 10 years from that moment to learning that he 490 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,360 wasn't your father. And so 10 years of feeling 491 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:52,000 really rejected and wow. That night, I mean I was like 492 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:56,120 you cannot let him see you cry. You cannot let him know. 493 00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,960 But that night I crawled and Brett in bed with my brother and 494 00:29:59,960 --> 00:30:03,000 I was just like I I don't understand. 495 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:07,400 I'm trying to be so good but I can't I can't be good enough. 496 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:12,360 And I had changed the words to Jesus loves me in my mind. 497 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,680 I was like Jesus loves me this I know and why you hate me I don't 498 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:17,440 know. But Jesus loves me this I know 499 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:22,840 and I just that that bedrock knowledge that I was still loved 500 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:29,320 just sustained me, but we still had three weeks before could go 501 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,800 back home. It was it was tough. 502 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:36,880 So going back through all of those kinds of things and 503 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:40,640 realizing everyone else knew this. 504 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:43,240 My older siblings knew this. That's. 505 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,040 What I was going to ask is, did your siblings know? 506 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,200 You know, they were still kids themselves, but as they got 507 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:53,880 older, they knew and they were aware that they should keep the 508 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:57,600 secret. And as they came to realize that 509 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:02,440 my cousins knew, they would hear a conversation. 510 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:05,920 They would pick up on something that adults were saying because 511 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:09,440 I wasn't there. And they were made known. 512 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:14,400 Like, you cannot tell. Obviously, my aunts and uncles 513 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,960 knew. My grandparents knew it. 514 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:19,840 It dawned on me the more I processed this. 515 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,880 Most everyone knows this and has kept this secret. 516 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,280 And that sense of betrayal just continued to gut me. 517 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:28,160 The more I realized, the more I came across. 518 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:32,040 It's like. Wow, you, you have this 519 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:36,600 conversation with your mom, She tells you this, you find out 520 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:40,880 everything. Do you talk to Marco after this 521 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,240 conversation? I really kind of sat in stunned 522 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,840 silence after the I mean, that was a long conversation where. 523 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,080 And Hustler was so mad. I'm like, you trapped me in this 524 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,080 car. I need to get away. 525 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:57,920 Like I feel so trapped. And my brother competed in this 526 00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,800 competition. To be honest, I have no idea if 527 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,920 he won or lost. And it wasn't until after he was 528 00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:08,840 done that I was able to talk to him and and he's always been a 529 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,440 safe harbor for me. And he was like, listen, I, I 530 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,800 know this is really, really hard, but living our entire 531 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:18,800 lives all day, every day, like sleeping in the backyard, 532 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,360 teaching you where's the Big Dipper and where's the Little 533 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:23,440 Dipper and teaching how to juggle a soccer ball. 534 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:26,680 All of those things are what make you my sister. 535 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:28,560 And nothing can ever change that. 536 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:34,120 And I was like, I know that's true, but this is this is going 537 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,160 to take me a minute. Like I am knocked on my butt 538 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:41,120 right now. But The thing is all of those 539 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,960 shove it down, put on a smile please. 540 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,960 Everyone else coping skills kicked in and when I came home 541 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,840 my fiance was waiting in the driveway because we had to get 542 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:57,440 off to this like pre marriage thing you had to do at the 543 00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:01,560 church. And we had only a few weeks left 544 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,720 everything to do. And he had all these ideas. 545 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,280 I thought about this, what this is and I was just like, I don't 546 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:11,080 I cannot get married. We got to cancel this whole 547 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:13,600 thing. I don't know who I am. 548 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:20,960 I got to rethink my whole life. This is this is no way to start. 549 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:25,040 And he was just like as stunned as I was like you. 550 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:28,040 This is what my mom just told me. 551 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:32,840 And he was like, like, what? But but no time out. 552 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:36,440 You can't cancel the wedding. I'm like, really, this is this 553 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,960 is nonsense. Just to try to start off a 554 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:43,560 marriage like this. I mean, I am absolutely upside 555 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:49,680 down and he is like, no, I'm not. 556 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:53,560 I'm not going to let you do it. I understand like, but like, no, 557 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:57,840 it's I'm sorry. This and I had finals. 558 00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,240 I was in college, I had finals to face. 559 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,880 Went back to school. He came and found me the next 560 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,640 day. I just was sitting watch, you 561 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:08,960 know, I went to the University of Washington. 562 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,880 I was sitting on the Mott light cut where the yachts go by and 563 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:14,719 just sitting there early, early in the morning. 564 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,080 And I was just like praying, like I'm so lost. 565 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:20,960 I don't know what to do. I mean, I don't feel like asking 566 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:24,159 like why I hate those kinds of questions. 567 00:34:24,159 --> 00:34:26,440 Like it's why not? I mean, lots of terrible things 568 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,960 happen in this world. I've experienced a lot of them. 569 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:33,280 But I don't know what to do and how much time went by. 570 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:37,840 But my then fiance, now husband walks up and sits down beside 571 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:38,880 me. He's like, do you know how many 572 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:42,560 places I've looked? I've looked all the places. 573 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,400 This was the last one. Like I don't know where she is. 574 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:50,080 And he just sat there and he's like, we, we can call this off. 575 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:54,239 Like I understand, like you must be beside yourself. 576 00:34:55,159 --> 00:34:58,080 So I'm not going to try to talk you out of that. 577 00:34:59,240 --> 00:35:03,560 Or we can just still get married and figure this out together. 578 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,600 It's not really going to change that. 579 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:08,240 I'm still going to help you figure this out. 580 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:13,680 And he was just like in tears. And I thought, now I'm just 581 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:18,120 hurting more people. I don't want to do that. 582 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:21,640 So I don't know if that was a wise decision because there was 583 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,960 so much fallout that he bore the rent of. 584 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:29,240 Because what I did to my family is what I always did. 585 00:35:29,240 --> 00:35:32,720 Just put on a smile. I'll be the compliant one who 586 00:35:32,720 --> 00:35:37,600 doesn't ever cause any trouble. And it was really, really 587 00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:40,520 awkward the first time I saw Marco. 588 00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:44,680 When I saw my dad, I could tell he was really, he was so 589 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:48,960 relieved and just so happy. And I just felt awful. 590 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,920 But I was trying to make him feel better about it. 591 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,080 We got married, we went away at our honeymoon, we came back and 592 00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,040 it was just like, well, that's behind us. 593 00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:02,480 And I just kind of kept pushing down all those terrible feelings 594 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:04,840 until my doctor thought I had an ulcer. 595 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:08,760 Like my stomach hurt so bad. Within a year, I went there 596 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:11,560 putting like a scope down my throat to look and see what's 597 00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:14,600 going on with the the inside of your stomach lining. 598 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:20,200 And I finally had to like, start writing about this and 599 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:24,400 processing it, but just for myself and never really 600 00:36:24,720 --> 00:36:28,560 addressed it with my parents because I finally had parents 601 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:33,560 and I didn't want to disrupt that in any way. 602 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:38,240 And then a few years later, my parents married each other and I 603 00:36:38,240 --> 00:36:40,160 really had parents. I had family. 604 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:42,400 Were you happy? Were you? 605 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,000 How did you feel I. Was because it was just like I 606 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:50,120 could talk to anyone and I could say Oh well, my parents are 607 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,520 going to come over and they were my parents. 608 00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:58,760 I was still processing so much and I would I would shock myself 609 00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:02,320 sometimes by the things that would kind of explode out of me. 610 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:05,720 I was like, who was that? Because there was a lot shoved 611 00:37:05,720 --> 00:37:12,480 down in and my husband helped a lot, or he saw what was seeping 612 00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:14,520 out. What was coming up? 613 00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:20,040 Was it feelings around the betrayal, the the lie, the not 614 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:25,480 knowing what was bringing up kind of negative quote UN quote 615 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:30,280 emotions for you? Mostly I just, I would get 616 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:33,000 really angry and I'm just not an angry person. 617 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:34,920 And I thought, what, what is that? 618 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,800 What's going on with me? Because that's just not me. 619 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:42,240 I would say I did a really good job of shoving this all down and 620 00:37:42,240 --> 00:37:45,360 putting a big smile on my face and marching forward and being 621 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,240 so happy to have parents who are married to each other. 622 00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:54,680 And then when I was 25, my son was born and he he almost bled 623 00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:58,560 to death from his circumcision because he has hemophilia, which 624 00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:03,000 means his blood doesn't clot. And that runs in families or 625 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:07,120 there are certain percentage of people who it's just a brand new 626 00:38:07,240 --> 00:38:09,800 spontaneous mutation is what they call it. 627 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:14,160 And so when they diagnosed him and they started to get him 628 00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:18,520 stabilized and he had to spend an extra week in the hospital to 629 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:21,040 get him stabilized. And they started doing a lot of 630 00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:24,960 genetic testing to find where this comes from because it is a 631 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:29,760 disease that only males have, but females carry it because 632 00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:33,800 it's on the X chromosome. And so when all of that testing 633 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:37,200 came back, it took about 5 months, I think, for all of the 634 00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:42,280 testing that came to come back. What they told me was this 635 00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:48,000 mutation came from your dad. So the X you got 1X from your 636 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:51,320 mom, you got 1X from your dad. And the X that came from your 637 00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:54,920 dad is healthy in him. He doesn't have hemophilia, but 638 00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:59,920 at your conception, it mutated. And so you carry the disease. 639 00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:02,880 And that is the X that you gave to your son. 640 00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:07,680 And that was the most devastating news that I received 641 00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:11,920 in this in in my entire life, I think not that he had it. 642 00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:14,960 I mean, that was upsetting because, well, when he almost 643 00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:18,040 died and learning about what that would mean for his life 644 00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:22,800 when he's actually gone on to live a miraculously healthy 645 00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,640 life. But learning that, you know, I 646 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:30,280 was conceived of in this illicit relationship that was covered 647 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:34,200 over with a lie. And it was almost like right 648 00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:38,360 down to my DNA, there was something wrong about me. 649 00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:42,200 There was something broken about me. 650 00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:46,640 And it's it's all the way down to my very DNA. 651 00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:52,640 And then it was passed on to my completely innocent child and 652 00:39:52,720 --> 00:39:54,280 there was nothing I could do about it. 653 00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:59,000 It was so dark for me to feel that way about myself. 654 00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:06,640 And it was the most challenging time to work through that and to 655 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:11,960 press into my faith and to press into these are not things I have 656 00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:15,560 control over and these are things I have to trust. 657 00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:21,760 That there is a plan that will work out and seeing, you know, 658 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:27,960 like 31 years later that my son's health has been protected 659 00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:32,280 so beautifully and that maybe this story encourages someone 660 00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:36,080 else and that there is a purpose for for it. 661 00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:40,520 And that I have been protected and cared for through the 662 00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:45,360 struggle and through the suffering is really, really 663 00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:47,120 comforting. But you can kind of only see 664 00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:50,720 that in hindsight. Yeah, yeah. 665 00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:55,040 Thank you for sharing that. I mean, we hear so many times on 666 00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:57,960 the podcast about how important that medical history is. 667 00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:02,560 And for a lot of us, it's around the unknown or kind of minor 668 00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:06,360 medical concerns. But this was life or death, you 669 00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:10,320 know, for your son and for you to be able to get those answers, 670 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:13,120 I'm sure was. Such a relief and to know where 671 00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,240 it came from and, and everything. 672 00:41:15,240 --> 00:41:19,160 So thank you for sharing that. That was one thing I was very 673 00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:23,600 thankful for as we sat in the hospital and the doctor said 674 00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:25,240 we're going to need to do genetic testing. 675 00:41:25,240 --> 00:41:30,360 I thought, I'm so glad this is not when I'm finding this out. 676 00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:34,360 That would have been way too much all at once. 677 00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:37,440 Oh. Gosh yeah, with everyone knowing 678 00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:40,200 too. My dad would talk to me about 679 00:41:40,720 --> 00:41:44,160 his family, his brother, his sister. 680 00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:47,400 You know, they're Greek, they're first generation Greek 681 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:49,200 immigrants. And their Greek community is 682 00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:55,560 this very tight knit community. And I was starting to see his 683 00:41:55,720 --> 00:41:59,960 older two kids, my half siblings, and I wasn't sure what 684 00:41:59,960 --> 00:42:03,400 they thought of me, how they were going to treat me. 685 00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:06,760 And my half sister has always been very kind and very warm. 686 00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:10,640 And my half brother has always been polite but very aloof. 687 00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:15,560 I don't know what he's thought. I think he was particularly 688 00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:19,160 angry with our dad, but he felt very lied to as well. 689 00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:24,320 But like I said, some of my dad's family still didn't know 690 00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:28,040 that I existed, or if they did, they didn't want to acknowledge 691 00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:31,160 my existence. Because if you're not 100% 692 00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:36,840 Greek, you're not acceptable, especially coming from this 693 00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:39,320 relationship, this illicit affair. 694 00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:44,760 And so he would he would see his family, but I was never 695 00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:49,160 introduced to them to the extent like they were married. 696 00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:52,000 My dad passed away in May of 2022. 697 00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:56,000 So they were married for over 30 years when my dad passed away. 698 00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:59,880 And at the end of his life, when he was in a Hospice in a 699 00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:03,560 hospital bed in their living room, my mom was caring for him 700 00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:06,840 and he couldn't be left alone. And I went over to visit him and 701 00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:09,000 I opened the door and just walked in like I always do. 702 00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:11,600 And this man sitting on the couch stood up and I startled 703 00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:16,520 him and I expected my mom there and and he said, oh, hello, I'm 704 00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:19,000 Evan. I'm Marco's nephew. 705 00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:22,920 And then I knew his name and I knew who he was because I'd 706 00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:26,000 heard so much about him from my dad, but I'd not met him. 707 00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:30,800 And I said, oh, I'm Tracy. I'm Marco's daughter, which is 708 00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,120 so awkward because he's my first cousin. 709 00:43:33,720 --> 00:43:36,640 And he was so embarrassed. He's like, I'm I'm so sorry. 710 00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:39,600 He just started stuttering. And I was like, you know what? 711 00:43:39,720 --> 00:43:43,040 I'm going to let you have your visit because I know you're 712 00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:46,120 really close and I'll come back and I just left. 713 00:43:47,240 --> 00:43:53,960 How did that sort of rejection from that side of the family and 714 00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:57,440 your Greek heritage that that was sort of one of your ties to 715 00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:01,280 that factor into your struggles with identity? 716 00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:08,880 Well, interestingly, in 2019, two of my kids and I went. 717 00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:13,480 My dad's family is from this very tiny island almost to 718 00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:15,240 Turkey. It's called Laros. 719 00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:20,040 And my dad would tell me about this island and his 720 00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:22,960 grandparents, my great grandparents, because my great 721 00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:25,560 grandfather was an Orthodox priest on the island. 722 00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:28,120 And he would tell me of this critical role. 723 00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:31,960 There was a really important World War 2 battle on this tiny 724 00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:35,280 little island and and I was love history. 725 00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:39,240 And I think because he was a priest, my great grandfather was 726 00:44:39,240 --> 00:44:42,520 a priest and I'm a person of deep faith and he was a teacher. 727 00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:46,600 And I think they were just safe people for my dad to tell me 728 00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:49,040 about because I shouldn't have known them. 729 00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:53,400 I shouldn't have had any access to them, whereas I should have 730 00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:57,040 known his parents, but I didn't. And they never knew I even 731 00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:01,040 existed. And I should have known a lot of 732 00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:04,480 his family. But I don't know a lot of his 733 00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:07,280 family, so he would tell me a lot about them. 734 00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:11,160 And so I went there and it was, I was trying to learn more about 735 00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:14,760 him and I, I didn't really learn a lot while I was there. 736 00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:18,040 And I intended to go back, but then there was the pandemic. 737 00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:20,160 So I just got back two weeks ago. 738 00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:23,480 I intended to go for. I was like, I'm going there and 739 00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:26,160 I'm going to stay for three weeks because I think it's going 740 00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:29,040 to take that much time as I don't read Greek, I don't speak 741 00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:33,960 Greek, and I just want to learn as much as I can about my great 742 00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:37,200 grandfather and this amazing story that my dad told me. 743 00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:42,920 He told me that this this island was bombed for 52 straight days 744 00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:46,280 by the German army. It's only 9 miles long and six 745 00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:49,560 miles wide. So just complete devastation. 746 00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:54,720 My dad told me that my great grandfather took all the Greek 747 00:45:54,720 --> 00:45:58,280 civilians into these caves during the bombing and basically 748 00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:00,760 saved them from the bombing. There were no civilian 749 00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:04,160 casualties. And then the German army won the 750 00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:06,200 battle, the ground battle eventually. 751 00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:11,640 And when they saw that all these Greek civilians were alive, they 752 00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:15,080 killed my great grandparents. They drugged them through the 753 00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:18,720 streets behind tanks and they buried them alive in these caves 754 00:46:18,720 --> 00:46:21,880 to die. So it's this really interesting, 755 00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:25,960 amazing story. And when I went there, I was 756 00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:27,680 trying, I learned so much about him. 757 00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:30,280 I found these books and I talked to one person. 758 00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:32,360 So you should go talk to that person, should go talk to that 759 00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:35,120 person. But nobody knew about this story 760 00:46:35,720 --> 00:46:37,880 then. And I found all kinds of stuff 761 00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:39,200 about him. I was at the church 762 00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:43,560 administration building and the library and, and a historian and 763 00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:47,200 an artist and just every single step led me to another step. 764 00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:51,240 It was an amazing adventure. And then finally, I was talking 765 00:46:51,240 --> 00:46:54,600 to one woman who works for an architect and she said, you 766 00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:57,360 know, we work with some civil engineers with that same last 767 00:46:57,360 --> 00:46:58,800 name. It's a small place. 768 00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:03,200 It's they've got to know. So she just called them and she 769 00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:05,240 handed me the phone. It's like, Oh my goodness. 770 00:47:05,240 --> 00:47:10,320 So I said, I'm here from Seattle, WA, and I'm looking for 771 00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:12,400 information about my great grandfather. 772 00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:17,240 His name was Papa, Marco's Papa. And he said, well, that's my 773 00:47:17,240 --> 00:47:20,640 great grandfather's name. Why don't you come to our office 774 00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:23,520 tonight at 8:00? And like, he's my second cousin. 775 00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:26,920 But The thing is that story's not true. 776 00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:33,360 So I asked them about this story and, and the bombing and the 777 00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:38,320 caves and, and he turned to his father, who doesn't speak 778 00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:42,480 English. And he said something in Greek. 779 00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:45,400 And the look on his father's face, he just, he furrowed his 780 00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:48,840 brow and he frowned and he shook his head no. 781 00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:51,080 And he said something back in Greek. 782 00:47:51,720 --> 00:47:54,240 And his son said to me that just didn't happen. 783 00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:57,880 Your great grandparents, they, they died peacefully of old age 784 00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:00,280 at home before the war even happened. 785 00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:04,960 And I just had this sinking feeling in my stomach. 786 00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:07,640 I thought, why did you lie to me again? 787 00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:13,800 I felt so foolish. I think maybe that's the the 788 00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:17,240 most common feeling that I've had throughout this is I just 789 00:48:17,240 --> 00:48:19,960 thought, I feel like such a fool. 790 00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:22,520 Why did I believe all these lies? 791 00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:25,800 Why didn't I figure it out? As I look back, there were so 792 00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:28,640 many clues. There were so many times when 793 00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:32,280 someone slipped up, when something didn't align, when why 794 00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:35,440 was I such a fool? She was not figuring it out. 795 00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:41,120 And I thought, I have been here for three weeks and do you know 796 00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:45,840 how many people I have told this story to who must be going? 797 00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:50,040 That didn't happen. But mostly I my instant thought 798 00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:52,520 was relief. I thought, I'm so glad they did 799 00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:57,800 not have a violent end. And then I thought, look at me 800 00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:04,360 just believing this again. These people on this island were 801 00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:08,880 so wonderful. They instantly welcomed us our 802 00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:11,520 last night there. My husband joined me for the 803 00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:13,960 last 10 days because he wasn't up for three weeks of research 804 00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:16,840 sitting in the library with Google Translate on books. 805 00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:21,880 But oh, they, they all came everyone on the island. 806 00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:26,160 So two young men who translated, both named after their 807 00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:28,080 grandfather. This is a Greek tradition. 808 00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:29,720 You name your kids after your parents. 809 00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:34,640 And my great grandparents had seven kids and one of them has 810 00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:37,000 four boys. And the three of them and their 811 00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:41,440 wives and their kids all came to this dinner they had for us. 812 00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:46,640 And they welcomed me with just warmth and open arms and 813 00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:51,520 curiosity. It was so, so wonderful. 814 00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:55,600 And I said to my husband here on this island, I have never felt 815 00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:57,040 more at home. It was great. 816 00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:00,240 The first time we went, my daughter and I were just at a 817 00:50:00,240 --> 00:50:03,840 town square and we watched some people just Greek dancing. 818 00:50:04,240 --> 00:50:06,400 And we stood there for so long watching. 819 00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:10,920 And my daughter was like, you're seeing the culture you didn't 820 00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:14,520 get to be a part of. We went to cooking classes and 821 00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:17,600 all those things that make up, you know, a cultural identity. 822 00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:21,440 I just, I met up with this woman who I'd met the first time there 823 00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:23,480 and she's like, I'm sorry, I've got to go. 824 00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:25,600 I'm going to grip my Greek dance lessons. 825 00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:27,360 She goes, would you like to come? 826 00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:30,520 I would love to come and I thought I was just going to 827 00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:33,600 watch, but they included me in and I just did this whole Greek 828 00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:34,800 dance class. They were. 829 00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:37,720 It was amazing. That's amazing. 830 00:50:37,720 --> 00:50:39,720 It was. It was such a gift. 831 00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:45,360 I I just want to recognize that feeling that you said about 832 00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:50,280 feeling foolish, because that's something that comes up a lot. 833 00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:54,280 I think so many people have those moments of like, how could 834 00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:57,200 I have felt so foolish is the perfect word. 835 00:50:57,200 --> 00:50:59,760 I, I used to say I felt so stupid. 836 00:50:59,920 --> 00:51:05,120 But foolish really is it because you just believed what was told 837 00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:08,560 to you? But the person who told this to 838 00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:12,520 you was your parents. And, and we should believe what 839 00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:16,240 our parents tell us, right? That's that's what we are raised 840 00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:18,640 to believe. Yeah. 841 00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:23,480 Do you feel like he was honest with you about most things? 842 00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:27,160 Did did he often tell little lies or. 843 00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:30,600 I'm so baffled with why he told you that story. 844 00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:35,600 Yeah, I, I have no idea. But, you know, as I was 845 00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:38,880 preparing to go on this trip and trying to gather as much 846 00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:42,000 information as I could before I went, I was asking my mom 847 00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:44,840 questions. And she doesn't know a lot 848 00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:49,160 because this family hasn't been really warm and welcoming to her 849 00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:52,800 either. But this nephew has been 850 00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:55,440 wonderful to her. And he and his wife are still 851 00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:58,560 close to my mom. She, she said, you know, you 852 00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:01,360 could, you could reach out to Evan and he would tell you 853 00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:05,520 anything he knows. So I emailed him and he was, he 854 00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:08,320 was really gracious to me. He sent me like, here's a whole 855 00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:10,360 family tree. These are all the people who I 856 00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:12,840 know. His mother was my dad's older 857 00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:15,040 sister and she's no longer alive either. 858 00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:18,640 She had the most contact with the relatives back in Greece. 859 00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:22,320 So in this e-mail exchange, I said, I'm really curious about 860 00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:27,560 this story about Papa Marcos and the war and, and, you know, the 861 00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:30,360 way he died. And he said, I am so shocked. 862 00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:33,600 I've never heard that story. I wonder if it was too painful 863 00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:35,600 for my mom to tell me that story. 864 00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:40,160 And I thought something's off there. 865 00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:44,280 And the reason he hadn't heard it is because it wasn't true. 866 00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:49,720 My parents were the most amazing grandparents to my kids you 867 00:52:49,720 --> 00:52:53,200 could ever, ever wish for. And I just think I need 868 00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:55,680 forgiveness all the time and I need grace all the time. 869 00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:58,080 So how could I possibly withhold it? 870 00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:00,840 You just have to be open handed there, even though it's very 871 00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:03,480 difficult. But as I'm talking to my kids 872 00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:06,360 about it, like, you know, this story that Papu's told me my 873 00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:09,800 whole life and my oldest daughter said it, well, she 874 00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:12,680 goes, Papu is a fantastic storyteller. 875 00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:15,680 It was one of his gifts. And my son said, you know, 876 00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:19,280 that's kind of on brand. I'm so sorry. 877 00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:21,920 I understand. And like, I'm so embarrassed. 878 00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:24,840 He goes, it would be natural to be embarrassed, mom, but that's 879 00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:27,800 not a reflection of you. And I have, I have to tell 880 00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:30,800 myself like, that's not a reflection of me, but. 881 00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:35,360 Wise words from your son. Yeah, yeah. 882 00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:39,440 How did you get to this place? I know faith is it has been a 883 00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:43,960 big part of your journey. How did you get to this place of 884 00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:51,240 forgiveness and allowing them to be in your life as your parents 885 00:53:51,240 --> 00:53:55,480 from 19 on and grandparents to your kids? 886 00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:57,240 How did you emotionally get there? 887 00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:01,120 Yeah, I. Think I am a writer. 888 00:54:01,240 --> 00:54:04,720 And so I started off just writing it in my journal and 889 00:54:04,720 --> 00:54:06,720 processing it, writing it, writing it. 890 00:54:06,720 --> 00:54:10,520 And like you said at the beginning, this is a really a 891 00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:14,080 strange story where you people, whenever I've told someone the 892 00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:18,080 whole story with all of the wrinkles to it, they always say, 893 00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:20,320 Oh my goodness, you've got to write a book. 894 00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:24,640 And so finally it started taking that shape and I really felt 895 00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:32,080 like it was a great example of coming to a place of a process 896 00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:35,040 of healing, because I think it's an ongoing process. 897 00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:39,960 And writing that book that might become an example for somebody 898 00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:42,400 else. And being able to lean into even 899 00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:48,280 a hard story and sticking with it and not trying to run away 900 00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:52,280 from it, not trying to numb it, not trying to shove it down 901 00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:56,000 anymore. And I think it was very shocking 902 00:54:56,400 --> 00:55:01,440 to my parents that I was processing all of it because 903 00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:04,760 like I said, I'm always the one who's just putting on a smile 904 00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:09,040 and looking like all's well. And it wouldn't be except for 905 00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:12,280 probably my husband and my kids, who knew how much I was really 906 00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:15,000 wrestling with. But the process of writing it 907 00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:19,080 was very cathartic. And then I do a lot of research 908 00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:24,160 for my job about just rumination and mental health as I advise 909 00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:27,400 college students. And, and I came across a book 910 00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:30,120 that talked about, and I do talk to myself out loud, but if you 911 00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:33,720 use your own name and shifting into the third person and taking 912 00:55:33,720 --> 00:55:36,960 a narrator's perspective is really, really helpful in 913 00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:41,480 creating that distance to help you see things more clearly and 914 00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:44,400 because and become less embroiled in them. 915 00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:47,760 And I thought that is really what I was doing. 916 00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:49,880 That writing process was so helpful. 917 00:55:50,240 --> 00:55:55,160 And I made a decision with the book that I wrote to change all 918 00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:59,400 of the names and also to fictionalize some pieces of it 919 00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:05,200 purposefully so that if anybody in my family was upset by the 920 00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:08,280 book, they could easily just say, well, it's fiction. 921 00:56:08,560 --> 00:56:10,840 And some of it is. Some of it had to be fiction 922 00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:13,560 because there's still gaps that I don't know. 923 00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:18,240 And it also protects people. What is your book called? 924 00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:24,840 It's called After the Rotting, and it came from a very poignant 925 00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:28,000 conversation with my then toddler daughters because now 926 00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:31,440 they're in their early 30s. We were walking through this 927 00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:36,440 apricot orchard and my daughter at that point, she was like 2 928 00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:40,560 1/2 and she saw a bunch of rotting apricots on the ground 929 00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:44,640 that had fallen from the trees. And she was so upset by the 930 00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:47,640 rotting nest. And she was hitting with a 931 00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:49,400 stick. And she's like, this is a mess. 932 00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:52,360 And I don't like it. And she was just disgusted by 933 00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:54,440 it. And I have no idea if this is 934 00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:57,520 accurate in terms of like how how trees grow. 935 00:56:57,520 --> 00:56:59,920 And I'm not an arborist, but I was trying to encourage her. 936 00:56:59,920 --> 00:57:02,640 I'm like, listen, you're right. This is a mess. 937 00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:04,760 I mean, there's maggots and it was just gross. 938 00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:10,120 I was like, but you see this hard part, you see the pit, all 939 00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:14,320 of this has to rot away before a new tree can grow. 940 00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:18,000 And I just felt like the truth said into me. 941 00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:22,480 I just felt like God was saying, yes, this is a hard, ugly, messy 942 00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:24,760 process. But you see these two little 943 00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:27,160 girls and that little boy sleeping back at home. 944 00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:31,600 All of this has to rot away before this new tree can grow. 945 00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:35,520 And you can change this legacy, which has kind of been our 946 00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:39,480 mission, my husband and mine, because his family is pretty 947 00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:43,760 unstable and and very messy too. We are going to change this 948 00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:48,080 legacy for these three if it's the only thing we do in this 949 00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:50,800 life. And of course it's not perfect. 950 00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:52,360 And you know, we haven't been perfect parents. 951 00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:55,400 We didn't get a great toolbox, hand it to us. 952 00:57:55,400 --> 00:58:00,480 But they're they are stable, wonderful adults. 953 00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:05,600 And we're so proud of them that we have this intact close family 954 00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:09,040 that's amazing and they don't have any surprises. 955 00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:11,840 Coming at them, Yeah, yeah, yeah. 956 00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:15,880 What advice do you have for a parent who's keeping a DNA 957 00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:21,800 surprise from their child? I think there's no right time to 958 00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:24,560 tell them. I think the right time to tell 959 00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:30,720 them is today, because the longer the time goes by, the 960 00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:34,120 harder it is for both of you, the deeper the sense of 961 00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:38,200 betrayal. And there's no way to avoid that 962 00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:40,720 sense of betrayal and that sense of bewilderment. 963 00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:45,440 And so the time is as soon as possible. 964 00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:49,080 I like that. The right time to tell us today. 965 00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:53,760 What advice do you have for someone who just uncovered Adna 966 00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:56,920 Surprise? I think that there has to be a 967 00:58:56,920 --> 00:59:02,320 lot of time and grace and kindness extended first to 968 00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:07,760 yourself, and then when you have given yourself the time to 969 00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:12,280 process and to catch your breath and to get your feet under you, 970 00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:18,320 to ask all of the questions that you have of each person. 971 00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:22,080 And I would do it one at a time. I don't think a big group is 972 00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:25,440 healthy because I think it would become incredibly overwhelming. 973 00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:29,600 And to know that you have a right to ask those questions. 974 00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:34,240 And I let a lot of time go by and there's still questions that 975 00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:38,360 I didn't ask my father. And he's passed away now that I 976 00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:42,440 wish I had. Make sure that you have let the 977 00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:47,200 time for yourself go and to get the help that you need to be 978 00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:50,000 able to write them down and to be able to ask them with 979 00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:54,480 curiosity and with grace, because that's what's going to 980 00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:59,360 allow you to forgive such that you live at peace. 981 01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:03,160 Tracy, thank you so much for coming on the podcast and 982 01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:07,680 sharing your story. Every story that I hear is so 983 01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:10,280 unique. As I said, this one is 984 01:00:10,280 --> 01:00:14,280 definitely stranger than fiction, and it's really 985 01:00:14,280 --> 01:00:18,320 inspiring to see how you've moved through that and ended in 986 01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:22,280 such a beautiful place with it. Although I know it's a journey 987 01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:24,560 that never really ends and it's ongoing. 988 01:00:24,960 --> 01:00:27,200 Just thank you and I wish you the best. 989 01:00:27,560 --> 01:00:29,360 Yeah, thank you. Thank you for sharing these 990 01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:31,800 stories. I think it's so helpful for each 991 01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:35,400 person who's walking their own individual Rd. 992 01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:37,840 Thanks again to Tracy for sharing her story. 993 01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:41,360 If you have Adna surprise that you'd like to share, submit your 994 01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:45,880 story at dnasurprises.com. And remember, you can join me 995 01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:49,720 over on Patreon for early access to add free episodes. 996 01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:55,320 Until next time. This episode of DNA Surprises 997 01:00:55,320 --> 01:01:00,240 was hosted, produced and edited by me Alexis Ourselt. 998 01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:05,080 It was mixed and mastered by Josh Ourselt of Siren Recording 999 01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:05,800 Studios.