I can only speak for myself but I just don't want to hear
anymore anyone else's story about it.
You know I've now heard I've gotten 3 cousins stories.
I've gotten my 2 new sisters versions.
I mean I probably have heard 15 people's stories regarding this
man and and how we all came to be and I just don't feel like I
can hear one more person talk about it.
I don't want to hear one more person tell me what a great guy
he was. I certainly don't want to hear
anyone else tell me what a good father he was.
It's dizzying, honestly. By the third story from the
third cousin, I was dizzy with what is even the truth?
Did he love my mom? Did he not love my mom?
Is he a predator? Is he just a really charming
guy? Is this all a coincidence?
I just don't know what's true anymore.
And so I don't want to reach out to his widow, primarily because
I don't really believe anything she's going to say is probably
going to be true because the truth is so subjective.
Yeah. Right.
We hold on. We hold on to the version of the
truth that serves us best. Welcome to DNA Surprises, a
podcast that delves into the world of unexpected DNA
discoveries. I'm your host, Alexis ourselves.
In July 2021, my life took a surprising turn when I found out
that I'm an N P/E, a person who has experienced a non paternal
event. In other words, my biological
father isn't who I thought he was.
Join me as we explore the stories of NP, ES, adoptees, and
donor conceived people and their families.
Get ready to unravel the astonishing journeys that begin
with a simple DNA test. This is DNA Surprises.
Welcome to season 12 of DNA Surprises.
This season marks nearly four years of sharing these stories,
and while each one is unique, the threads that tie our stories
together remain strong. For example, there are many ways
that people uncover their discoveries.
Sometimes people learn about their parentage through who they
connect to. A new cousin, an aunt, a parent.
Others are more shocked by who they don't connect to.
In this week's episode, Michelle reveals how she learned that the
man she believed was her father was not genetically related to
her at all. She shares what she learned
about her biological father and why her feelings about him are
complicated, how she connected with her sisters, and why she
doesn't want to hear any additional stories about what
happened. Thank you for sharing your
story, Michelle. My name is Michelle, I'm 51
years old and I'm from San Antonio, TX.
I grew up knowing that the man I was calling my dad was not
really my dad. I grew up with a stepdad, Ruben,
who I loved and adored. I always believed that my
biological dad was a man named Robert and I held to that belief
until March 2024 when ADNA test showed me that he wasn't my real
dad. I actually had taken the DNA
test in 2017 to get some health information.
I had had some autoimmune things come up and the man that I
thought was my real dad, Robert, he never knew his dad.
So I decided to take this DNA test in 2017 thinking it would
give me some health data. It did, but I never looked at
the DNA matches. Flash forward to 2023.
I get this e-mail that says you have this close DNA match on
23andMe. And honestly Alexis, I don't
know what made me look. I'd been getting emails from
23andMe for years, but I think it was that it said you have a
close DNA match. And so I went and looked and I
had a relative that was showing up as either a cousin or a
nephew. And silly me, I thought I had
stumbled upon my quote UN quote real dad's birth family.
Like I I thought I was about to be a hero.
Oh, OK, so you didn't recognize the name, but that wasn't
surprising to you because you were expecting that maybe you
would connect with some of his unknown.
Family. The story was my biological dad.
Robert never knew his dad. So I'm thinking, Oh my God, I'm
the best daughter ever. I've just discovered Robert's
family. Robert and I never really had a
close relationship. In fact, I would say most of my
life it was a source of big disappointment.
So when I saw this, I thought this is an opportunity for he
and I to connect. So I reached out to him and his
wife and I said, you know, hey, I've connected with this young
man. Do you recognize this name?
They said no. And I said, do you want to take
adna test? And he said yes.
And I sent it to him for Christmas 2023.
Meanwhile, this young man and I were talking about how could you
be my nephew or cousin? So we're we're sort of like
tossing back messages back and forth and I have a brother but I
know he's not my brother's son because they're almost the same
age. So I send Robert the DNA test in
December. December comes and goes, January
comes and goes, February comes and goes.
Finally I reach out to my stepmother and I say hey y'all.
He hasn't shown up on my profile yet and she says 0.
He's been talking to his biological family, he had gotten
his DNA results, he'd connected with siblings, he'd found
cousins, but he never showed up on my 23andMe profile, if that
makes sense. So you're sitting there thinking
maybe he just hadn't taken the test and he was just sitting on
it. You call and it turns out no, he
actually has connected with tons of his family so he didn't reach
out to you to let you know. Hey, I did find people, but you
said that you weren't particularly close.
We weren't particularly close, but it was a surprise to me that
he didn't reach out to tell me. He didn't notice that he didn't
connect. With well, that remains to be
seen. OK, so you here he's connected
with his family, but you've put the pieces together now or have
you put the pieces together that he hasn't connected to you?
Are you wondering why I? Call 23andMe.
I'm, I'm thinking this is a mistake, right?
And I've heard a lot of people say this, like I got on the
phone with customer service. I'm saying like, hey, my dad's
not showing up on my profile. And they said, and I'll never
forget. And they even I haven't had them
e-mail me. There's no genetic connection
between you and this person, Robert and I, I mean, talk about
a full scale dismantling of reality.
I was sitting at my dining room table in an instant, like my
whole life was unraveling. What does this mean?
I go straight to my husband's office and I show him the e-mail
and he says let's go to your mom's.
He was like, let's go. My husband's wonderful.
So he says let's go, let's go figure this out.
So we get in the car and we go to my mom's.
Now remember this cousin slash nephew, he and I have been
communicating this whole time through 23andMe.
So I know a little bit of his background.
I know his last name, I know his family names.
And the lady at 23andMe, the customer service representative
said this cousin that you've connected is more than likely a
nephew. The percent of overlap between
you and this young man is he's probably your nephew.
So all in this day I'm realizing this is not my dad.
Oh, I have this nephew, which means I also have some siblings
somewhere. Now when you connected with you
later find out is probably your nephew, is he giving you tons of
family information and you're thinking that this all matched
your dad? Did he think that there was some
unknown person out there This. Sweet guy was just like, he was
like, I don't know how you're related to me, but I'll tell you
whatever you want to know. And so he's just like, well,
here's my grandfather, here's my other grandfather, here's my
mom's name. We're trying together to piece
together how are we related. And he's thinking he's going to
be a part of this magical moment where I tell my, you know,
quote, UN quote, real dad that I have found his long lost family
only to discover, no, I have found my long lost family.
What is going through your mind now?
You're not matching with your dad.
You find out that this young man is your nephew.
What are you thinking? I don't even know if I was
thinking I was in that dizzy investigative mode that I think
so many of us go into immediately.
It's like for NP ES, it's fight, flight or investigate.
So I went in to investigate, right?
And all the drive to my mom's house, it's about a 40 minute
drive. I am scouring the Internet.
I am looking all through these 23andMe profiles and there's
only two options, right? Like this kid and I are
connected. He only has two grandfathers.
So one of his grandfathers is related to me or his mom or dad.
So I go to my mom's house and I say to my mom, Mom, did you ever
know a man named Stacy? And she says, why?
That Stacy was one of the names I got from the young man I
connected with. So I said, do you, did you ever
know a man named Stacy? And she says, why?
And I knew immediately my husband and I looked at each
other and I said, is it possible that he's my dad?
And she said, yeah, you look just like him.
At this point I'm 50 years old, right?
Or I guess 49 at that time. And she said it just like that.
How are you feeling to hear her say that so nonchalantly?
I felt like I was going to faint.
I just didn't see it coming. I've heard a lot of people's
stories, you know, people saying, like, I always thought
there was something different, but I always knew, right?
I always knew my stepdad is not my real dad.
My real dad is kind of absent from my life.
I always had that story. It never occurred to me that
there was actually another absent father.
Were you close at all to who you thought was your biological
father's family, or anyone from that side?
No, no, I wasn't. My alleged biological father and
his family kept their distance from me.
And in hindsight, I think that they always knew.
And I think that's why he didn't call me when he got his DNA
results. All the investigative work I've
done, I think he always knew he wasn't my real dad.
Which in some ways makes him a hero, right?
Because while he didn't show up for me very much, he did show up
for me a lot for someone who wasn't even actually my dad.
If you flip the perspective that.
Way. OK, so your mom just drops this
information very casually. Did she give you any more
details about your biological father and how they met or
anything like that at that time? On that day she told me that she
was married to my alleged biological father Robert and her
and Stacey had an affair. My mom was 19 years old and
Stacey was in his late 20s and they had an affair.
She got pregnant with me and Stacey knew that I was his and
according to her they were in love and he saw me until I was
about 3 years old when she then met my stepdad and married him
and then that was my dad. And you have, do you have any
memory of Stacy? None.
So of course I did another DNA
test, right? Even though my mom told me I
still needed to confirm. So I did an ancestry test, which
opened the door actually to a lot more relatives, which has
been just an absolute whirlwind. I mean, what I found out is that
this man, Stacy, actually had multiple relationships with
multiple young women. And I have that.
I know of five other siblings. Was Stacy married when he had
the affair with your mother? Yes, he was married throughout
all the relationships. He was married until he died in
2006. So you find out through Ancestry
which for if people don't know who who are listening, Ancestry
has the deeper well of testers right?
More people have taken Ancestry then 23andMe or some of the
others. So people are more likely to
find matches when they take an ancestry test, right?
Right. So he had three kids with his
wife. The other three of us are from
extramarital affairs. He impregnated my mom in 1974.
He impregnated my sister's mom in 1977.
And then I have another sister that was born in 1997.
What are you feeling as you're uncovering these additional
people? Well, there's so many stories
emerging. So there's my story of, Oh my
God, my dad is not who I thought he was.
And the man who is actually my biological dad is deceased.
So I'm, I'm grieving on more than one level, right?
My stepdad, who I love and who I know would have had the answers
to all of this, is also deceased.
The man who I thought was my biological dad, I'm grieving him
too. Even though we didn't have a
great relationship, I'm grieving him and I'm grieving for him.
There's so much grief. I'm finding out that I have all
these siblings that I didn't know about, and I'm finding out
that many of us were born as a result of affairs.
And three of us, our mothers, were very young when they were
in relationship with him and they all worked for him.
I don't know how to feel about that.
Like, how do I feel about this man who has affairs with these
young women, impregnates them, and then essentially leads them
on? You know, what's interesting is
that all of our moms were in love with him.
That's the language that's been used.
They were in love with him. Right.
Yeah. So you have this whole story
initially from your mom that it was like this love affair.
Does that change for you at all? Yes because the other sisters
moms also were in love with him and also were teenagers and also
pined for him. My mom remarried my stepdad but
the other girls moms did not remarry.
They loved him until he died. And it's interesting because
when I tell this story, people often say, oh, he must have been
so charismatic. He must have been such a, you
know, charming guy. To which I answer, no, I think
he must have been a predator. He was 10 years older than my
mom and she was 19 years old. And then, as he continued to get
older, the women remained in. Teens and early 20s.
So they were all young. He was their boss.
So there's two sisters that I've connected closely with.
One of them is Dana and the other is Stacy.
Not to be confused with the now biological father, Stacy, but I
also have a sister, Stacy. Dana and Stacy and I have done a
lot of investigating. We've now, you know, and talked
to cousins and investigated more ancestry.
And I think the more we learn, the more our origin stories
become more confusing to us. What I do know, what is clear to
me, is that our mothers were young women who worked for him.
And that is a power differential that cannot be ignored.
A lot of the people that we've spoken to or the people that
could give us answers won't. My mother, for example, will not
talk about it any further. The last thing she said to me,
the last time I tried to talk to her about this, she said, I
really can't believe you're going to let this affect you
this way. I gave you a good dad.
Meaning my stepdad. She doesn't want to answer any
other questions. My sister Dana's mom is
deceased. She can't answer any questions.
My sister Stacey's mom, I think it's it's painful.
I think she's not wanting to talk about it or not ready to
talk about it. And so we're relying on these
stories from cousins and other relatives.
There's this other layer, too, of the amount of secrets that
are being kept. Even still, you know, we talked
about how Roberts didn't call me when he got his DNA results.
And come to find out, my alleged biological father, Robert, also
had worked with Stacy. And so we got another version of
the story that actually Robert had told Stacy that he was my
real father. So there's just all these
secrets being kept by all these different adults.
Even now, right Even now, secrets are still being kept.
Robert won't talk to me about it.
My mom won't talk to me. You can't talk to Dana's mom.
Stacy's mom is not ready to talk about it.
There's so many question marks. I want to, I want to back up to
when you found your sisters, did you match directly with those
two sisters on Ancestry? No, I found them in a roundabout
way. So I matched with a cousin and I
reached out to this cousin and she was so gracious and we
jumped on the phone and I had to say to her, I think your Uncle
Stacy is my dad. And she was not surprised at
all. And she said, actually, I know
of at least two others of you. And so that's how I found my
sisters, Dana and Stacy Marie. So Dana and Stacy already knew
that that Stacy, your biological father, was their father.
They already knew they didn't know about me and they didn't
know about each other. Well I get their names from a
cousin and I immediately probably that same day emailed
both of them and said something like hey, is your dad a man
named Stacy? If so, I might be your sister.
I emailed them and they emailed me right back and it's probably
been. The miracle of this whole
nightmare has been these two sisters.
My sister Dana, who is 3 years younger than me.
She grew up knowing that Stacy was her dad, but she grew up not
with him. Her mom took her away to a whole
different state because Stacy wasn't going to leave his wife.
He wasn't going to let Dana be a part of his life.
So she and her mom moved. And so she grew up feeling
fatherless. And so when I reached out to her
and told her, I think I'm your sister, we just had this
immediate connection. I think her e-mail back to me
was, I'm so sorry you've had to go through this.
You don't have to go through it alone.
And I mean, from that day, we've just been basically like
drinking from a fire hydrant, Like we've just been just taking
it all in together and trying to figure it out together.
She did then also do an ancestry test.
And so now we have our genetic match in black and white.
Do you find that you are similar to your sisters?
Have you gotten any of that genetic mirroring component that
a lot of people feel like they're missing?
When I saw their photos, I knew they were my sisters.
When I looked them up, when I stalked them, I remember, you
know, in particular, Dana looking at her photos online,
thinking, Oh my God, we have the same smile.
It was so weird to see that. And then my little sister, Stacy
Marie, I messaged her. She got right back to me also,
but into show. She's 20 years younger than me,
so her reaction, while she's been wonderful, I think she's
still really like processing all of this.
She grew up believing that he was a good guy who just didn't
have room for her in his life, I think.
And so here I come to to her with like, actually, actually
he's this guy who had multiple affairs and now has all these
unclaimed children. Were you able to connect or
build a relationship with the siblings from Stacy's marriage?
No, we have not attempted that. Do they know about you?
I don't know. I know that his widow knows
about us. Actually, turns out she has
always known about US. One of the cousins told us that
she knew about us. And then his widow actually
reached out to my sister Dana to see if she could talk to her.
And about a month ago, we decided to put our story on
social media. And I guess that got back to
her. And so she reached out to Dana
and said, you know, I'm available to answer any
questions you want. I think Dana's still thinking
about whether she's going to do that.
But in that, she did tell Dana that she knew about all of us.
What is the hesitation? Do you think about reaching out
to her with any questions or to try to get more of the story?
You know, I can only speak for myself, but I just don't want to
hear anymore anyone else's story about it.
You know, I've now heard I've gotten 3 cousins stories, I've
gotten my 2 new sisters versions.
I mean, I probably have heard 15 people's stories regarding this
man and and how we all came to be and I just don't feel like I
can hear one more person talk about it.
I don't want to hear one more person tell me what a great guy
he was. I certainly don't want to hear
anyone else tell me what a good father he was.
It's dizzying, honestly. By the third story from the
third cousin, I was dizzy with what is even the truth?
Did he love my mom? Did he not love my mom?
Is he a predator? Is he just a really charming
guy? Is this all a coincidence?
I I just don't know what's true anymore.
And so I don't want to reach out to his widow, primarily because
I don't really believe anything she's going to say is probably
going to be true because the truth is so subjective.
Yeah. Right.
We hold on. We hold on to the version of the
truth that serves us best. And from what she has said to my
sister Dana, she is holding on to the story that he was a good
man and a good father who made some mistakes.
I can accept that that is her version of the truth.
We've actually heard that version from a couple of
cousins, so I can accept that that's their version of events.
But for me and my new little sisters, that doesn't feel true.
So I don't want to hear it, and frankly, I don't want to make
her tell it either out of respect for her.
I don't want to call her up and ask her to talk about the
multiple affairs that her husband had.
How painful. Right.
Yeah. Right.
Do you feel like you want to talk to your other siblings?
That's a great question. You know, they grew up with him
as their dad. I mean, I guess I certainly
would be open to it, but I'm not sending any more emails, if that
makes sense. I reached out to Dana and Stacy
Marie because I knew they were like me.
I knew that they were unclaimed. And so I felt a kinship with
them immediate already before I even talked to them, right?
I don't know if I'll reach out to the other three, but I
certainly will be open to any outreach that they do in my
direction. We have a, an uncle, one of
Stacy's brothers has offered to also meet with us and talk with
us. And I don't think I'm going to
do it. I support my new little sisters
if they want to do that. You know, if you'd asked me
before Christmas, I was trying to talk to anyone who would talk
to me about this. And at some point I just got
dizzy and I got angry. What are you angry about?
I mean, here are all these adults, right?
Y'all are all in like in your 70s, like grow up, get your
lives together, tell the truth, right?
And I mean this with no disrespect to my little sister's
moms, but also to them. Like, come on, y'all.
Like we're Dana and Stacey, Marie and I are trying to put
our lives together. We're trying to put our stories
together, not just for ourselves, but we have children
who are going to hang their hat on our life stories.
And you grown-ups cannot grow up and tell an objective story or
talk for real about what happened.
I mean, some of them won't even talk to us at all about what
happened. So I'm angry about that.
And I've just decided I'm going to stay angry about that for as
long as I need to, and I'm not going to hear one more person's
story if I don't have to. Anger's a part.
Of it, it has to be right. For such a long time, I was in
shock. I just.
I mean, for months, Alexis, I would just drive around in my
car, going from one thing to the next, and I didn't even
recognize the sound of my own voice anymore.
Who am I? What do you mean?
That's not really my last name. What do you what?
That's not my oh, my ethnicity changed a little bit.
I just drove around in a daze. Then I found the sisters and I
started to wake up. But I also started to get a lot
more information because of that.
I think for the next couple years, I just want to bask in
the fact that I have little sisters.
I always had a little brother. My mom and stepdad had a son.
And so I've always had a little brother and I adore him and he's
been wonderfully supportive through all this.
But now I have little sisters and I just want to enjoy that.
Here's something that's also a part of the grief is if, if I'm
being honest, I'll never know. I'll never know who this man was
or why he created these unclaimed children.
I'll never know his motive. I'll never know if he loved us.
I'll never know if he really knew about us.
It's all just. It's all just story now.
Yeah, I've heard you say a few times that you and your sisters
are unclaimed children, and then you just talked about that
initial identity unraveling where you don't even recognize
your own voice and you feel very detached from yourself.
Is the unclaimed child piece a part of your identity now?
Or how has your identity changed since you had your DNA surprise?
Yeah, I definitely own that unclaimed piece.
It came to me last year when one of the first cousins I ever
talked to, when I was trying to get information about Stacy and
she referred to us as illegitimate children.
And I thought to myself, hell no.
I am absolute. I am 100% legitimate.
And so it occurred to me that what we are is unclaimed.
And I, I own that and I I love that.
I love saying that. And to my little sisters, Dana
and Stacy Marie, I claim you. I claim you.
And that's kind of been like, I think the last couple of months,
what I have really felt is, you know, all the dismantling of
reality, all these bullshit stories, all this confusion
around all these daddy issues, right?
What it all has done is it's left me with these two beautiful
women who I get to claim as my sisters.
And I really kind of feel like it can be my purpose now to fill
the gaps that he left and not that I'm trying to make up for.
I'm not trying to be a parent to them or solve their solve their
hurt but I don't know. I just get to I feel like I get
to claim them. Yeah.
It feels good to say that, and it feels good to be mad about
it, and it's interesting to like how grief and anger and love can
all be wrapped up in in these stories.
Absolutely, absolutely. I know you said that you are
tired of hearing all of the additional stories, but are
there any questions that you would like answered?
Like from your mom, for instance.
If I was able to ask her anything, maybe I would want to
know, like, how did you cope with that mom?
Like, how did you look at me every day and be OK with that
grief that you must have had about him?
What was that like? Right.
Like that must have been so hard.
You mentioned that you had a slight ethnicity shift.
What was that? So I grew up identifying as
Mexican. I always knew and my mom is
white. I always knew I was half Mexican
or I just thought I was half Mexican, half white.
But as I've taken this deeper dive into my DNA, I'm like 75%
Irish English and very little Mexican.
So I just kind of, and that blew my mind.
I mean, I'm still, I still have some Mexican American DNA, but I
always just identified so strongly as a Mexican American
woman and I still do, right. But it just.
Being in, in San Antonio, right, like there's a relatively large,
you know, Mexican population, so.
Totally. I mean, you said you still do.
Did it shake you a little bit, though, to feel that it wasn't
as much as you that's so strongly identified with it?
Did to go from thinking I was to thinking I was at least 50%
Mexican to finding out I'm only like 17%.
And that may not seem significant to some people, but
like you said, I live in South Texas.
I remember telling my husband and my daughter like, let's not
tell anyone. Like let's, let's never tell
anyone that I'm only 17% Mexican.
Do people perceive you as Mexicans still?
Yeah, I mean, I think in South Texas, if you have brown hair
and brown skin, you're probably Mexican, right?
So I think people, people do perceive me as Mexican and I
think assume that I am. And I love that.
You know, my stepdad was Mexican.
So I grew up very much steeped in the Mexican American culture
and and I am so great, you know, to my mom's, you know, argument
of why I gave you a good dad. She did.
My stepdad, Ruben, was he was amazing.
And this has kicked up a lot of grief.
He died 10 years ago. I wish he was here, Alexis,
because I feel like he would handle this.
He was just that kind of guy and that kind of dad.
Like, I know he would just like he would just get on the phone
with people. I know he would and just say,
listen, right. She needs the truth.
Tell her the truth. Yeah.
So it's it's definitely made me miss him a lot.
Yeah. It's wild.
How's your relation? How was your relationship with
your brother? Besides my husband, he was the
second person I told and he's been so supportive, but I think
also sad. And the first thing he said when
I told him was, oh, God, you could have other siblings.
And so I think it's been sad for him.
I think he's sad for me or, you know, he's feeling feelings for
me. I'm guessing for him it's that
realization of like, oh, I'm not your only sibling anymore.
But I told, and I've told him time and again, like you are my
brother, you are my #1 nothing will come between us.
You have all the history, right? We have all the history, we grew
up together, we know all the things.
So you said you are kind of at a place of maybe not, I don't know
if peace is the right word, but you're kind of ready to stop
digging for the what happens in the history and trying to get a
picture of your biological father.
So what is next for you? I just want to get to know these
new sisters and if there are any other unclaimed children, I want
to know them. I want to claim them.
What advice do you have for a parent who is keeping a DNA
surprise from their child? You've got to tell the truth.
You don't have to tell the truth today, but at some point in that
child's life they deserve to know the truth.
And I think no matter how painful you think it is going to
be, there is nothing more painful than being lied to by
one of your parents or both of your parents.
What advice do you have for someone who just uncovered Adna
Surprise? Oh, take your time.
Take your time. That's the best advice I got
from listening to your podcast and from my husband and my
therapist. Is that because again, like when
I think when you first get the information, it's fight flight
and investigate, right? Like you just want to.
I wanted to find out all the answers and I had so many people
telling me just pause, take your time.
You're going to get answers. It was really helpful for me to
have permission to let it take time.
I took some time off from work. You really have to make space
for all this new reality. Something that I've learned
again and again from your podcast is, I think for me, in
the beginning, I remember feeling like, oh, I don't want
to mess up anybody's life. I don't know if I should send
these messages or ask these people questions.
I don't want to disrupt anybody's life, but this is my
life, right? And if I need to flip some
tables and stir some pots, we deserve to have the information.
We deserve to have those pieces of our stories.
And if it inconveniences some people, Oh well, Oh well.
That's the thing that I would want to say over and over again
to someone who just found out is this is this is your story.
Go ask the hard questions whenever you're ready.
Michelle, thank you so much for coming on the podcast and
sharing your story. Just a year in, I'm sure a year
of many firsts. I hope that you continue to
build beautiful relationships with your sisters and maybe
eventually uncover some of the answers that you're looking for.
Yeah. Oh, thank you so much, Alexis.
You just, you're so wonderful and your story is so inspiring.
And I just can't reiterate enough how much I appreciate and
how much I've benefited from this podcast.
So thank you. Thank you.
Thanks again to Michelle Lee for sharing her story.
If you have Adna Surprise that you'd like to share, submit your
story at dnasurprises.com and for early add free access to
episodes, join me over on patreon@patreon.com/DNA
Surprises. Until next time, this episode of
DNA Surprises was hosted produced.
And edited. By me Alexis Oursalt It was
mixed and mastered by Josh Oursalt of Siren Recording
Studios.