1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,800 I do believe her in the sense that like back then, right, they 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:07,280 just, they did what they did and then they moved on with what was 3 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:10,600 the right answer. And the right answer was my dad 4 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:12,600 was my dad. She was still married. 5 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:17,080 And that's how it was gonna be. We drove for quite a while, and 6 00:00:17,080 --> 00:00:21,040 then we finally stayed at a hotel and I texted my mom just 7 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:23,840 like, hey, mom, I love you. This doesn't change how I feel 8 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:27,440 about you, and that's just looking back now. 9 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:30,680 That just goes to show I was just so I was more concerned 10 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:35,040 with her and her reaction and how she was handling this than I 11 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:41,200 was with my own reaction. Welcome to DNA Surprises, a 12 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:44,600 podcast that delves into the world of unexpected DNA 13 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:48,200 discoveries. I'm your host, Alexis, our salt. 14 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:54,280 In July 2021, my life took a surprising turn when I found out 15 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:59,120 that I'm an N P/E, a person who has experienced a non paternal 16 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:02,440 event. In other words, my biological 17 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:04,720 father isn't who I thought he was. 18 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:10,480 Join me as we explore the stories of NP, ES, adoptees and 19 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:13,000 donor conceived people and their families. 20 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:16,960 Get ready to unravel the astonishing journeys that begin 21 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:22,280 with a simple DNA test. This is DNA surprises. 22 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:27,640 DNA surprises, by their very nature, change the lens through 23 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:32,520 which we view family, our raised families, our new found 24 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:37,040 families. Things that seemed normal become 25 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:41,640 less so with hindsight. We gain clarity on what was 26 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:45,920 there all along. In this week's episode, Angelina 27 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:50,280 shares how her daughter's desire to take ADNA test fundamentally 28 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:53,560 altered her understanding of her family dynamics. 29 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:58,000 She shares what's helped her navigate this experience and how 30 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:01,560 she balances living her truth and hiding it. 31 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:05,480 Thank you for sharing your story, Angelina. 32 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:09,360 I'm Angelina and I'm from Cincinnati. 33 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:13,640 That's where we live now and I AM 50 years old. 34 00:02:13,640 --> 00:02:18,600 That is not a trick question. I grew up in a small town in the 35 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:22,560 Midwest, and I say small town is like a farm area. 36 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,920 Our next door neighbors might be like 5 miles down the road. 37 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:29,640 My grandmother lived across the road, which was about a mile. 38 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:31,760 That was my paternal grandmother. 39 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:34,520 She had four kids and my dad was her youngest. 40 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:38,320 And that's important because not only was the youngest, but like 41 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,960 there was a good age gap. And so the like oldest, I think 42 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:43,400 was like 14 years older than him. 43 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:47,440 And then the one closest to him was like 6 years older. 44 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:49,880 I lived there with two older brothers. 45 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:53,480 My oldest brother is five years older and then my middle brother 46 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:58,160 is 3 years older. So it was very much always a 47 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:01,520 kind of them and us. I was very close with my mom, 48 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:05,240 but I just like, we still refer to my brothers as the boys. 49 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:07,680 So people in the family will be like, oh, yeah, it's, you know, 50 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:09,960 Angelina and her mom and then the boys. 51 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:12,920 So I just felt like there was always kind of like a divide 52 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:15,320 there, which not really surprising later. 53 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:17,840 My brothers are. I'm very different than them. 54 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:20,960 My brothers favor my dad. I favor my mom. 55 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,840 When I was about 8 years old my parents got divorced. 56 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:28,960 My middle brother and I moved with my mom to like the next 57 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:32,080 county over. So maybe like 20-30 minutes 58 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:34,200 away. I just was always with my mom 59 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:38,520 and very much took on like her kind of defender when people 60 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:40,440 would say something about her. I felt like I was always 61 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:43,720 defending her, whereas my brothers were always with my 62 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:46,600 dad. Was there any part of you that 63 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:50,400 like wanted to stay with your dad, or was it very much like 64 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:51,760 you knew you were going with your mom? 65 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:53,920 Yeah, I just, I knew it was one with my mom. 66 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:56,040 I think originally I'd see my dad. 67 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,360 I was supposed to see him like every Wednesday and then every 68 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:01,880 other weekend. And I think we did that for a 69 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:03,760 little bit. But like the Wednesday night was 70 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:07,200 up to him to come all the way over to see us and or see me. 71 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:09,920 And I don't think that lasted long. 72 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:12,480 I mean, I didn't have a problem with my dad when I was younger, 73 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:14,920 but I was definitely a mommy's girl as well. 74 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:18,440 My dad was just very kind of quiet and I would dare say like 75 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:20,880 kind of passive. So I think it was easy for my 76 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:22,360 mom to be like, Oh, no, she's dizzy. 77 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:25,160 And so we just kind of in a way grew apart. 78 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,640 But my mom pretty much jumped right into another relationship. 79 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:32,360 And then that man kind of became, you know, my father. 80 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:36,760 They never actually got married, which was a bit of a faux pas. 81 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:41,560 Conservative small town Midwest in the 80s, that wasn't such a 82 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:43,640 common thing. And I think that's another part 83 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:46,440 where I just kind of started to be like my mom's defender 84 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:51,320 because I was very aware that it wasn't looked upon well. 85 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,080 And and I just, yeah, I felt like I was always kind of like 86 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:58,560 had to be a protector of her. So my dad eventually remarried 87 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:00,160 as well when I was in high school. 88 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:04,240 And that changed the dynamics as well because when my stepmom 89 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:07,400 came into the story, like, she was very much like, OK, you 90 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:11,000 know, you know, we'll see you on Christmas Eve and we'll see you 91 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:13,920 this time. Definitely change things a 92 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:16,640 little bit more. And she was very much favored, 93 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:21,320 my brothers as well. Was there any part of you at 94 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:27,080 this point that questioned your connection to your father, who 95 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:30,520 you believed was your father? Yes, actually. 96 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:34,480 I mean, not to a point where I thought he wasn't my dad, but 97 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:36,880 definitely. And others would notice it too, 98 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:40,280 that I was just so different than my brothers and my dad. 99 00:05:40,280 --> 00:05:44,400 And my mom would always be quick to make comments about how I 100 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:48,160 favored her side of the family. And it always referenced like my 101 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:50,920 grandparents who had passed when I was very little. 102 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:55,160 So I had no point of reference, but I just knew that Oh my, my 103 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:58,320 lighter skin, you know, favors, oh, that side of the family. 104 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:01,320 Whereas, you know, my brothers favored my dad. 105 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:03,360 So there was some, some of those factors as well as just 106 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:05,720 personality wise. There's a lot of times I would 107 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:09,400 just ask my mom, like, how in the world can he be my dad? 108 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,720 Not thinking he wasn't, but just more like, this is crazy. 109 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:14,240 Like I have nothing in common with him. 110 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:16,680 It was just easy, I think, for her to dismiss like, Oh, you're, 111 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:18,440 you know, you're like so and so in my family. 112 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:21,520 I even remember making jokes about like, you know, we didn't 113 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:23,600 have a milkman, but we had a Schwann man, right? 114 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,240 That came to the came to the farm and I was like, oh, maybe 115 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:30,040 I'm the Schwann man's daughter. But again, not ever anticipating 116 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:33,120 it to be anything but that. My birth certificate, dad was my 117 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:37,400 dad. So I get married to a great guy 118 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:40,840 and that right before we got married, my I'm going to call my 119 00:06:40,840 --> 00:06:43,080 stepdad. He passed away unexpectedly. 120 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:45,440 And I think that was kind of like a catalyst too for my 121 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:47,920 husband and I like I realized like, Oh yeah, you're the one. 122 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:51,320 And he was very supportive. And I very much knew that when 123 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:53,720 we got married that I wanted to be different. 124 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:57,680 I wanted to stay married. I wanted to have a family and 125 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:00,200 they were going to be my focus. So we did. 126 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:02,240 We got married and we started our family. 127 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:06,840 I have three wonderful children. We never lived close to family, 128 00:07:06,840 --> 00:07:10,480 either his or mine. That was, I think, a decision we 129 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:13,280 made on purpose. We just kind of wanted to focus 130 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:16,000 on our family. And I actually had a really good 131 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:18,040 relationship with my mom. I would talk to her all the 132 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:20,640 time. She got married again. 133 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:24,400 And then I'd say, like when my like, oldest daughter was in 134 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,320 high school, you know, like a lot of the girls or a lot of the 135 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:31,720 kids, she was taking classes and was studying DNA and she's like, 136 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:34,360 wouldn't it be cool if we did an ancestry test? 137 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:39,960 And so she did hers first. And my maiden name is German. 138 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:42,880 There's no way around it. It is German, German, German. 139 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:46,840 So when my daughter first got her test back or her results 140 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:49,680 back, I was like, wow, first of all, she's not as German as I 141 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:52,480 thought she would be because my husband has a lot of German in 142 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,200 him as well. And so that was the first 143 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:56,840 surprise. And then I started looking and 144 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:59,600 there was one cousin of mine on my mom's side. 145 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:02,320 I was like, OK, yeah, so there's only one that I named there that 146 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:04,680 I really recognized. And then I didn't recognize 147 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,360 anyone on my dad's side. But there was this really kind 148 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,800 of odd unique name. Like the first name is unique. 149 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:14,520 And it said he was a first cousin equivalent of a first 150 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:16,840 cousin of mine. So I thought that was really 151 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:18,360 interesting. He had a common last name, 152 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:21,920 though. So then my second daughter also 153 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:24,600 got interested and she took the test. 154 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:28,360 She actually has red hair, very pale blue eyes. 155 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:29,720 My husband has blue eyes. OK. 156 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:32,159 We always joke that she has all the recessive genes because when 157 00:08:32,159 --> 00:08:34,840 she was born we're like, OK. Where did this come from? 158 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:37,360 Same result. Obviously some of the stuff on 159 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:40,120 there, I was like, OK, so then I took the test. 160 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:44,240 Probably I'm going to say like, I probably took it like in 2020, 161 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:47,880 like a lot of people, when I got the results back, I actually 162 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:51,880 messaged this cousin because he's on my dad's side and still 163 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:53,640 no other names kind of really popped up. 164 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:57,000 And I messaged him like, hey, like, you know, at that point 165 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,080 you could put in like, you know where you were born. 166 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:02,880 And so he made reference to the same small town that I was born 167 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:04,440 in. It took him a while to message 168 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:05,960 me back. And he's like, oh, there must be 169 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:09,600 some kind of mistake because I know all my cousins, but my 170 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:11,720 grandfather was adopted. So maybe that's how we're 171 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:14,120 related. I was like, OK, but then, you 172 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:16,760 know, you start to do the mental gymnastics. 173 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:21,440 And in my mind, I had created this narrative and I was like, 174 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:24,440 oh, I figured it out. So because my dad, like I 175 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:27,640 mentioned before, was so much younger, I was the youngest 176 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:30,960 cousin on that side. And so I had cousins that were 177 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:33,560 having children not long after I was born. 178 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:38,280 So somehow I connected to the dots that one of these cousins 179 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:42,200 that lives in the same small town probably had a baby and 180 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:43,760 decided to give it up for adoption. 181 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:45,840 So this is the thought process that I have. 182 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:49,200 This is how I've come up with the answer to who this guy is 183 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:50,840 because he lives in the same town. 184 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:54,560 He knows all his cousins. So I did actually call my mom 185 00:09:54,560 --> 00:09:57,280 and ask her because she was always kind of like the cool 186 00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:59,840 aunt, probably because she was married to the youngest brother. 187 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:04,320 So I remember it so vividly. I didn't know at the time why. 188 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:06,000 But like when I said, hey, mom, like, I found this. 189 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:08,360 Is there any chance that, you know, my cousins could have had 190 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:11,400 a baby? Or does this name sound familiar 191 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:14,120 to you? And I gave her the name and she, 192 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:16,760 like, had this really shrill, like, what? 193 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:18,720 I don't know, Like, that's impossible. 194 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:21,880 And I would know. And then she also said, you 195 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:25,040 can't trust those DNA tests, which was really odd because my 196 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:27,560 mom is very much a woman of science. 197 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:29,520 And I was like, that's just such a weird. 198 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:32,040 And it's one of those things where you don't know why it's 199 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:34,400 important, but you kind of like, tuck it back in your mind. 200 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:38,200 And so I kind of just gave up thinking, well, I don't know how 201 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:39,880 I'm going to figure this out because I just kind of had my 202 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:42,520 story. And then a couple years later, 203 00:10:42,680 --> 00:10:44,480 one of our cousins actually passed. 204 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:47,560 And so we were all gathering for a funeral. 205 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:50,160 We went to the funeral and then we went to like a family 206 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:52,200 farmhouse afterwards and we were sharing a meal. 207 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:56,560 All of my cousins on my dad's side were there, my brothers 208 00:10:56,560 --> 00:10:59,840 were there, my aunts, my dad was there as well. 209 00:10:59,920 --> 00:11:01,760 And again, I'm not super close with them still. 210 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,360 Like we're cordial, but I don't see him very often. 211 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,560 So he was there. And fortunately, he was tired 212 00:11:07,560 --> 00:11:10,040 from a long day of travel. In the funeral, my middle 213 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:14,200 brother took him and they left and we were sitting at a table 214 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:17,320 and my husband was there and my oldest brother was there. 215 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:22,120 And one of my cousins started talking about how he was 216 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:25,240 researching genealogy. And all of a sudden I was like, 217 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:29,040 oh, I wonder. I saw another cousin across the 218 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:30,600 room. I'm very close with her. 219 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:34,240 So I went over to her and I said, hey, do you know this 220 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:36,600 person? And I gave her the name And 221 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:39,640 she's like, no, why? And I'm like, well, I connected 222 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:43,280 with him on 23andMe and she's like, oh, she's like, I 223 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:46,840 connected with our cousin so and so and so and so and so. 224 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:49,680 Like I literally pull out my phone and I start to like type 225 00:11:49,680 --> 00:11:50,800 in her name. I'm like, why aren't we 226 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:54,200 connected? And then like, she looked at me 227 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:57,720 and I looked at her and it's like we both realized at the 228 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:01,160 same time. And she just simply said, is 229 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:04,880 there any chance that your mom had an affair with so and so? 230 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:09,320 And right then and there, I'm like, yes, like I know she did. 231 00:12:09,680 --> 00:12:12,840 And then it was like memories, kind of like little glimpses of 232 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:17,000 things, kind of like came back to me and I remembered I knew my 233 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:19,400 mom had had an affair. And I remembered who the man 234 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:22,040 was. So this was not news to you? 235 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:25,480 The affair was not news to you? Or had you forgotten about it? 236 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:28,600 Or. I remembered it, but I also, I 237 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:32,320 think when you're so young and I didn't have words for it and I 238 00:12:32,680 --> 00:12:36,720 can't even tell you exactly how I knew, but I remembered then 239 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:39,520 like my mom and I talked about it only twice before. 240 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:41,920 And one time was when I was married. 241 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:45,840 And I said, mom, I remember something and can you, you know, 242 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:48,880 tell me about it? And she was just like, your dad 243 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:50,120 and I were going through rough patch. 244 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,760 It only happened one time. It didn't mean anything, that 245 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:56,880 kind of story. So when I was talking to my 246 00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:58,360 cousin, we both kind of realized this. 247 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:03,600 She actually said to me then I always thought you looked like 248 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:07,800 and then named my now half sister because they were 249 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:09,600 friends. And she's like, I thought it was 250 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:16,080 always odd how similar you were. And I just was like in shock, of 251 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:18,880 course. And I had known my mom and had 252 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:21,040 an affair, but I thought that was later. 253 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,200 I'd never contemplated that it was, you know, because you told 254 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:25,760 me it was like a one time thing later. 255 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:27,840 How are you feeling at this point? 256 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:31,760 Well, I am obviously in shock, but also it's like one of those. 257 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:34,160 It's like tunnel vision at the same time too. 258 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:38,360 I'm literally standing with all of this family that I've just 259 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:41,560 now realized I don't share any genetics with. 260 00:13:42,560 --> 00:13:45,800 And she just like, oh, I'm so sorry, so sorry. 261 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:48,680 She actually had some memories because she actually stayed with 262 00:13:48,680 --> 00:13:51,160 US1 summer when I was little before my parents got divorced. 263 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:54,880 And apparently a gentleman would always call and if my dad 264 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:58,680 answered the phone, then the person would hang up. 265 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:01,960 And this is of course before the caller ID and all of that. 266 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:05,600 And then I was like, Oh yeah, like I remember now too. 267 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:09,360 Like being a little kid and someone calling. 268 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:14,200 At that point, I just go, and I whisper in my husband's ear, I'm 269 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,040 like, we need to leave. And he's like, OK. 270 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:20,040 And my brother had been watching this kind of conversation from 271 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:21,360 across the room that I was having. 272 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:23,880 And he knows me well enough to know that something was going 273 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:25,680 on. He just wouldn't let it go. 274 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:27,760 We were supposed to, like, spend the night and go out to 275 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:29,160 breakfast with everyone the next morning. 276 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:30,280 But I was like, I've got to leave. 277 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:32,520 I've got to leave. And so he's like, what's going 278 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:34,480 on? And I was like, I can't tell you 279 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:36,120 right now. He's like, no, no, what's going 280 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:37,320 on? And just kind of like badgering 281 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:39,520 me. And I was just like, I am not 282 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:42,280 related to anyone in this room except for you. 283 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:47,720 And he's like, OK, he's like, do you know who who you are related 284 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:49,640 to? And I was like, I'm not talking 285 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:51,960 to you about this right now. I could not get out of there 286 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:54,360 fast enough. So my husband and I leave. 287 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,360 And I don't even think I told my husband as we got into the 288 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:01,400 truck, like what was going on? We just get in the truck and 289 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:04,720 literally I immediately call my mom and I just ask her, I'm 290 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:08,640 like, mom, is there any possibility that so and so is my 291 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:11,240 biological father? And she just starts crying. 292 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:13,120 She's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. 293 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:17,000 I was like, mom, like DNA doesn't lie. 294 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,280 Is there any chance that so and so is my father? 295 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:23,000 And she says this will kill your dad. 296 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:27,600 And that was her reaction. And so we talked briefly and 297 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,760 then we got off the phone and my husband was just like driving 298 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:33,200 like shocked because he's just picking things up. 299 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:36,040 And then I just kind of tell him the conversation that I had. 300 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:40,280 And when he starts driving and we were about 6 hours from home 301 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:42,440 because we were several states away. 302 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:48,440 And so we just start driving. And then I call my mom back and 303 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:51,800 she's settled down a little bit. I've settled down a little bit 304 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:54,560 and she gives me a little bit of information, but not much, 305 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:58,760 basically just admitting that it could be a possibility. 306 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:01,240 And she's like, there's no way. I had no idea. 307 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:04,520 I had no idea. And I do believe her in the 308 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:07,680 sense that like back then, right, they just, they did what 309 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:11,040 they did and then they moved on with what was the right answer. 310 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:14,080 And the right answer was my dad was my dad. 311 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:17,560 She was still married. And that's how it was going to 312 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:19,840 be. We drove for quite a while and 313 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:23,800 then we finally stayed at a hotel and I texted my mom just 314 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:26,600 like, hey mom, I love you. This doesn't change how I feel 315 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:29,920 about you. And that's just looking back 316 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:31,560 now. It just goes to show I was just 317 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:36,080 so I was more concerned with her and her reaction and how she was 318 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:40,520 handling this than I was with my own reaction. 319 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:47,640 Did you feel any anger or any anything towards your mom or was 320 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:51,280 you were you really focused on making sure she was OK? 321 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:55,360 It was a combination of being concerned for her and still just 322 00:16:55,520 --> 00:17:00,320 in utter shock and also wanting answers. 323 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:03,560 And like, my initial thought was like, I don't need to have a 324 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:04,800 relationship. I don't need to reach out to 325 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:06,240 them. I just, you know, I need to know 326 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:09,480 from you. And so I was just really focused 327 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:13,480 on is she OK and what does this mean? 328 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:17,200 I was also concerned about my birth certificate, Dad. 329 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:19,440 Like, was there any chance that he knew? 330 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:23,079 But yeah, so it was just, it was crazy. 331 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:27,359 So what are your next steps like? 332 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:30,400 Do you start researching this new family that you find out 333 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:34,000 that you're connected to? Do you start, you know, 334 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:36,920 interviewing your mom? How do you learn more 335 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:40,840 information? So I do, I had memories of him 336 00:17:41,360 --> 00:17:44,320 and I knew the names like immediately knew the names of my 337 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:47,240 half brother and half sister. They would be older than my 338 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:51,600 siblings like my raised with siblings but I'm still very 339 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:56,280 close in age and they like they graduated from the same high 340 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:58,760 school as my brother. I graduated from the high school 341 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:01,440 that I moved to with my mom since I knew their names. 342 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,840 I guess one blessing is I didn't have to wait to figure out who 343 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:06,960 it was. Like I had memories and I knew 344 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:09,240 their names. I remember their mom's name. 345 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:12,240 And so of course I got like on Facebook and started looking 346 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:14,560 things up and seeing where they were. 347 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:18,600 I could figure out bio dad and his wife were still married and 348 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:20,480 they still lived in the same little town. 349 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:25,120 So that was kind of crazy. I've also immediately set up 350 00:18:25,120 --> 00:18:27,640 like therapy appointment for like as soon as I could get it 351 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:31,720 because I knew I was going to need a lot of help to like kind 352 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:37,880 of walk myself through this. I gave my mom a couple of days 353 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:41,400 for her to kind of like come into terms with the fact that I 354 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,520 had figured this out. I think I even brought up like, 355 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:48,120 hey, like mom, there were times when I asked you and basically 356 00:18:48,120 --> 00:18:51,760 asked her about this cousin. And that would have been the 357 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,320 time, right? To be like, oh, hey, by the way, 358 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,440 I mean, because I'd already knew somewhat of the affair. 359 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:00,120 Now, granted, it's not something we talked about, but maybe twice 360 00:19:00,120 --> 00:19:02,680 in my entire life. And at this this point, I was 361 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:05,160 48. So this was just like two 2 1/2 362 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:08,960 years ago. I decided that my one brother 363 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:14,920 knew, but my dad, who raised me, actually lives with my middle 364 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:16,920 brother. And so my husband and I talked 365 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:18,920 about it. And at that point, we're like, 366 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:20,280 OK, we're not going to tell them. 367 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:24,080 It just didn't seem like, you know, he's older. 368 00:19:24,360 --> 00:19:25,960 And what good would that kind of come out of it? 369 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:29,960 And I think I was still really concerned about how everybody 370 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:32,360 was going to take this news. This was, of course, right 371 00:19:32,360 --> 00:19:35,720 before Christmas. So my mom was still planning to 372 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:38,000 come visit us for Christmas and stay with us. 373 00:19:38,120 --> 00:19:40,200 She very much didn't want to talk about it. 374 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:45,840 She didn't want anyone to know, and so we promised her that we 375 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:50,040 wouldn't tell like my kids or anyone until after Christmas. 376 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:54,360 And then, yeah, I just started doing therapy. 377 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:57,320 There's so much grief. I was mad. 378 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:03,640 I was just incredibly sad about different things in my past that 379 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,920 could have been different. I just I couldn't understand how 380 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:10,600 someone would. Love their kid and see their 381 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:13,120 kids struggling in a relationship with like their dad 382 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:18,480 and not kind of be honest and say, hey, you know, there's a 383 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:20,440 good chance he's not your dad. Like anything. 384 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:22,760 That's just the fact that she just let me continue to be in 385 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:26,560 some really tough situations with my dad and my brothers when 386 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,680 she knew I was struggling. That's really hard for me. 387 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:33,680 It's still hard for me. Eventually I, I told just, you 388 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:36,120 know, a couple of close friends as well, because it was clear 389 00:20:36,120 --> 00:20:38,240 that I was struggling. Like there's something going on 390 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:40,520 because that's something that just, it overtook my life for 391 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,280 the first bit. But I also, I'm, you know, I'm 392 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:46,240 a, I'm a Christian and I, my faith is a very big part of my 393 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:48,320 life. And so I think that was also 394 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:51,840 like I, and I still today know that I'm going to be OK. 395 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:55,440 Like in that moment I was like, all right, this is not a 396 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:59,440 surprise to God. And so I took a lot of comfort 397 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:03,320 in that knowing that, OK, well, I didn't know this, it's not a 398 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:05,640 surprise. And I'm going to be OK. 399 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:08,200 And so that was kind of like, just like my mantra for a while, 400 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:11,880 Like I'm going to be OK. Yeah, that, that mantra of I'm 401 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,760 going to be OK, I'm I'm sure is really, really helpful. 402 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:19,240 I wanted to just go back really quickly to your mom. 403 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:23,200 You believe she didn't know, you know, and she wasn't sure. 404 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:27,320 But you also mentioned that when you were asking her about your 405 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:28,760 cousin. Like that might have been a 406 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:31,760 time. So do you think at some point 407 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:35,080 she maybe had a question mark and didn't say anything? 408 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,880 Or do you do you think that she was just as surprised as you 409 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:41,960 were with this information? Looking back, I at one point 410 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:45,080 when we did have a conversation the the following week, the one 411 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:48,480 time that she was like probably open with me for a good couple 412 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:52,600 hours at that point, she did admit that there were times that 413 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:56,480 she wondered because clearly boy, I looked was just different 414 00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:58,720 than my brother's. We always would joke about like, 415 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:00,080 Oh, I'm nothing like my brother's. 416 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:03,480 So I do think that there was in the back of her mind, there were 417 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:08,840 times where she wondered and she maybe kind of knew, hoped even 418 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,760 maybe that I wasn't because they're, you know, after the 419 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:14,600 divorce, they, you know, didn't always get along. 420 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:16,360 Obviously. I think there was some kind of 421 00:22:16,360 --> 00:22:19,080 wonder there. But I think also like so many of 422 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:21,800 that generation, right? Like there was no way they were 423 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:26,520 gonna foresee DNA tests. So she just put it aside and she 424 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,920 like, okay, you know, this is your dad and in the state that I 425 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,800 was born in legally, who, you know, even if she did know, like 426 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:35,840 he was still going to be on my birth certificate because that 427 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,360 was the law. I think it still is the law that 428 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,880 if you're married, the husband. That's the father. 429 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:46,160 Is the father and so and I know that's a real controversial take 430 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:49,160 for some people. Like other NP ES for me, I just 431 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:52,800 look at my birth certificate as a legal document of what was 432 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:54,920 legal at that time. So it doesn't bother me. 433 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:57,160 Like it bothers some people and that's, you know, everybody has 434 00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,240 a right to their own opinion. So yeah. 435 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:03,240 But yeah, she had to have there had to have been glimpses and 436 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:06,920 heard a node like, Oh yeah, there's, you know, 5050, right? 437 00:23:08,360 --> 00:23:10,680 Right, Right. OK. 438 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:15,880 Wow. So you told some friends, you 439 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:20,040 told your therapist, you told your brother. 440 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:24,120 In the moment, your husband knows, your mom obviously knows. 441 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:27,840 What do you decide to do with the information that you have? 442 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,400 Do you decide to reach out to anyone or what are your next 443 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,200 steps? So my next steps were at first I 444 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,840 was like, I only want medical history. 445 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:38,720 That's all I care about. I'm like, I don't want to cause 446 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,000 an issue for anyone since they're still married. 447 00:23:41,120 --> 00:23:42,680 I don't want to do that. I don't want to blow up any 448 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:47,880 families so I started to write a letter to my bio dad and since I 449 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,480 had some memories of him like it wasn't hard to write that 450 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:52,560 letter. I knew his birthday was coming 451 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,800 up in early February and so this happened. 452 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,960 My discovery was early December. So I started writing my letter 453 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:04,480 and then like I find journaling and writing very therapeutic to 454 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,640 the point where a lot of times like my first reaction is like 455 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:11,200 just to write an e-mail to write out like what I really want to 456 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:13,600 say. And then I'll edit it and soften 457 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:15,440 it. Or sometimes I don't send it at 458 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,200 all, but that's just very therapeutic. 459 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,040 So I worked on that letter and it wasn't a very long letter, 460 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,960 but I just really would add things and take things away. 461 00:24:23,120 --> 00:24:28,120 And then I actually sent the letter in the forest birthday. 462 00:24:28,120 --> 00:24:30,800 I tucked it into a birthday card because I thought, well, I don't 463 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:34,040 know who gets his mail or, you know, what kind of mental and 464 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,280 physical condition he's in because he would have been, you 465 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:40,160 know, in his 80s, early 80s. So yeah, so I sent the letter 466 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:43,680 and then I just, I waited. And at some point we did after 467 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:47,640 Christmas, I did tell my girls too, because I was very much was 468 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:51,680 not going to keep that from them because it medical history. 469 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:53,840 It's, you know, it's as important to them as it is to me 470 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:57,000 to have that right. And I mean, we're very close 471 00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,960 family and I'm sure if they could tell that something was up 472 00:24:59,960 --> 00:25:02,720 with mom. So after my mom left, we just 473 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,200 sat him down and and told them, you know, told them the truth. 474 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:10,640 So my mom was furious with us because she didn't want anybody 475 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,200 to know her business. So that's how she looks at it. 476 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,400 This was her business from 50 years ago, and they had no right 477 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:18,000 to know that. That was the first time that I 478 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,800 had to put some real strict boundaries down with my mom and 479 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,320 took some time. Because it's almost like scales 480 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,840 fell from my eyes in the sense that I started to look back now 481 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:29,480 at my relationship with my mom and some other things and 482 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:34,240 realized, oh, maybe things were not the way they should have 483 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,680 been for a long time, which is interesting to my husband. 484 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,000 He's like, honey, that's how your mom has always been. 485 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:45,000 But I was just so caught up in that I was her daughter and 486 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:46,960 that, you know, I was her best friend. 487 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:51,120 I think we kind of had it messed up for a while in terms of who 488 00:25:51,120 --> 00:25:54,560 was taking care of who. And so I hear that a lot in our 489 00:25:54,560 --> 00:26:02,560 community that parentified child enmeshment kind of just, yeah, 490 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,200 really fuzzy boundaries that end up happening. 491 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,720 And I'm I'm sure it's common outside of the NPE community as 492 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:10,880 well, but it's just a recurring theme. 493 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,160 Yeah, so I sent the letter and then I just kind of waited. 494 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:20,040 And then about a month after I sent the letter, I got an e-mail 495 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:27,280 from my my brother, my new half brother, just saying basically, 496 00:26:27,360 --> 00:26:31,480 hey, saw your letter and would like to talk to you. 497 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:33,800 And he's like, and he was very kind. 498 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:35,520 He's like, I hope you're doing OK. 499 00:26:36,120 --> 00:26:38,760 And of course, they had gone on to Facebook too and checked me 500 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,200 out and whatnot. So we scheduled a call for a 501 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,800 couple days later. So he called me and I was so 502 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:49,120 nervous. I think I was nervous because 503 00:26:49,360 --> 00:26:53,080 there's a, a fear of rejection for part of it. 504 00:26:54,360 --> 00:26:55,880 You don't want to blow up their family. 505 00:26:55,880 --> 00:27:00,240 But also he was like the gateway in a way as well to the, to the 506 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,840 history to, you know, what did they know? 507 00:27:03,120 --> 00:27:06,840 What didn't they know? So they were in shock basically, 508 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,400 he said it's totally out of character for their dad. 509 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:14,000 You know, I had no idea. But apparently when the letter 510 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:18,600 arrived, my sister was actually there and read it. 511 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:26,120 And then my bio dad read it and his wife read it. 512 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,400 And then they called the brother and he read it as well. 513 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,040 So that was kind of weird to think that like, they were all 514 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,960 reading it and just kind of like stewing on it before they 515 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,280 reached out. So yeah, so at first it was 516 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:39,680 great. Like, you know, we started to, 517 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:41,360 you know, get to know each other. 518 00:27:41,360 --> 00:27:43,600 They answered, you know, some questions. 519 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:47,000 And again, they just were like, totally shocked. 520 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,920 And they were very protective of their mom, which I understand. 521 00:27:51,120 --> 00:27:53,640 So they didn't want to tell anyone because they still live 522 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:55,680 in that small town and what would people think? 523 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,120 And so apparently she had no idea and so it caused a bit of a 524 00:27:59,120 --> 00:28:03,200 rift and the only thing my bio dad I guess said was like, yeah, 525 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,360 it's a possibility, but I don't know what the big deal is. 526 00:28:05,360 --> 00:28:08,600 It was like 50 years ago. How do you feel about that? 527 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:10,480 I mean, it's your life, it's your existence. 528 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,600 Yeah, I at first I was very, I was like, oh, yeah, of course I 529 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,960 don't want to cause any problems or issues, which seems to be a 530 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,200 pattern with me. Now I'm realizing I'm so careful 531 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:23,320 about everybody else and, you know, it's like, OK, well, give 532 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,520 us some time. And then so I talked to my half 533 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,720 brother 1st and then about a month later, he said, you know, 534 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:32,200 your sister, our sister would like to talk to you as well. 535 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:34,120 And so she called me. But it was also always very 536 00:28:34,120 --> 00:28:37,240 secretive, like, couldn't be around the parents, like, you 537 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,200 know, when they were away and they have grown children, but 538 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,160 they didn't want them to know because they didn't want their 539 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:46,120 children to think poorly of their grandfather and their 540 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:48,200 grandmother. At first it was great. 541 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,920 Like, we were like, had a group text going and, like, getting to 542 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,440 know each other and sharing memories. 543 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,000 And some things would kind of come up, like we were sharing a 544 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:57,960 memory. And I was out of my brother's 545 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,840 baseball game. And my new half brother was 546 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,200 like, oh, yeah, and you got bit by a dog. 547 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,240 And I'm like, yeah, he's like, I remember that. 548 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,360 And I was like, wow, like, I don't even remember it as much 549 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:11,840 as I remember the story. So there were some definitely 550 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,240 some connection points there. And my cousin who, you know, 551 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,880 helped me kind of piece this together, You know, she's the 552 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,520 one that said, yeah, like you guys look alike. 553 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,400 And then I started to notice it. It wasn't like the full on, 554 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,880 like, you know, genetic mirroring that you hear. 555 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:31,680 But definitely I have more features than I do with my my 556 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,200 brothers that I was raised with like the lighter skin. 557 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,520 Because to find out I am in fact not German. 558 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,920 So I have a lot of Irish, no German, no German. 559 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,000 So I have a lot of Irish and Scottish. 560 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:50,760 So that explains a few things. And then actually my husband and 561 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:55,680 I drove out to meet to re meet my brother and sister in early 562 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:59,360 June. We met on a day when no one else 563 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:02,320 was home and it went really, really well at the time. 564 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,600 And at that point I remember I like described being 565 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,200 contentment. I had contentment that I'd met 566 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:11,280 them and that they just needed some more time. 567 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:15,200 It sounded like my bio dad wasn't interested in meeting me. 568 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,000 I don't as a parent, I don't understand that. 569 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,640 And I don't understand how you can have someone, whether you 570 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,720 knew or not, just out there and you don't want to meet them at 571 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,440 least once. But so I've never I've not had 572 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:32,760 any contact with my bio dad still to this day. 573 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,440 Is that something that you really are wanting or how do you 574 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,120 feel about it at this point? It comes and goes. 575 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:48,520 Sometimes I I just want the opportunity one time to see him 576 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:51,320 in person to see if I do have a reaction. 577 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,840 I've seen pictures, but it's just not the same. 578 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:59,360 So in the same way, I haven't seen my birth certificate dad 579 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:02,960 either since I found out. And I want to see him again as 580 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,240 well because I want to see if that's something that's 581 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:09,360 different or if it's the same feeling that I've always had. 582 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:15,160 But yeah, like my, my half brother has been very kind of 583 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,600 like business like like yes, like if you want to meet him, 584 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,840 we'll make it happen. But apparently my sister is very 585 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:26,600 much avoids conflict. And so any time it even bring is 586 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:28,600 brought up, I feel like a little bit of a freeze. 587 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:32,920 So our conversations have been like fewer and fewer between. 588 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,040 So I, I don't know, at this point, I kind of, yeah, 589 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:41,000 sometimes especially I got holidays or those trigger 590 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:42,960 points. I I do want to see him. 591 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:45,600 But then there's other times where I'm like, well, if he 592 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:47,800 doesn't want to meet me, then why would I want to meet him? 593 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:52,080 But then that's that's not true. I know it's just kind of a 594 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,600 protection of, you know, not wanting to be rejected. 595 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,800 Sure. What do your siblings say about 596 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,480 him? Like I guess it just seems like 597 00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,640 it must feel very complicated that your siblings are willing 598 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:09,360 to talk to you and they met you and then their father. 599 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:14,120 Your father is not willing to to bridge that gap. 600 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:18,800 Yeah, it is very complex. And I I understand them wanting 601 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:22,480 to protect their mom and that her well-being, you know, she's 602 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:27,120 a victim in this too. But at the same time, like who's 603 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:30,760 looking out for me? And that does hurt. 604 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,280 I think that's kind of another reason why I kind of pulled back 605 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,280 a little bit because I got to the point like, well, you know, 606 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:40,960 you want to know all about me and my family, but you aren't 607 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,240 willing to share anything of yours. 608 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:48,800 And that just doesn't feel fair. And I know it's not going to be 609 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:52,920 fair, but there are days where I'm like, I don't ever need to 610 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:54,720 talk to them again. And then there's other days 611 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,200 where I'll see something on Facebook because we're friends 612 00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,960 on Facebook, but we're not allowed to comment or share 613 00:32:59,960 --> 00:33:03,720 anything or heart anything because someone else might see 614 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:08,120 it and wonder which that's kind of what I'm dealing with. 615 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:12,640 So, and that's where it feels very like voyeuristic. 616 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,520 Yeah. If it was up to you, would you 617 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,480 be open about it? Because I know your mom also 618 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:21,800 doesn't really want her business out there. 619 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:26,480 So where do you stand? Would would you, Angelina, talk 620 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:30,200 about this broadly if you could? Or what are your feelings? 621 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,840 Yes, about a year from when I originally sent the letter. 622 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:38,640 I sent a text to to them just saying, hey, I'm not going to 623 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:40,600 send a letter this year. I'm not going to send a birthday 624 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,080 card. I'm a well aware of the date and 625 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,120 I'm well aware of the truth. And while I can tell you right 626 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:48,560 now I'm not going to do anything, I can't promise that's 627 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,840 always going to be the case because it's my story to tell. 628 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,800 And when I'm ready to tell it, I'm going to tell it. 629 00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:57,240 I think they took it maybe as a threat. 630 00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:00,320 I didn't mean it as a threat, but because I did notice, like, 631 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:01,840 they definitely kind of pulled back. 632 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:05,400 And we're all busy. I still have, you know, one kid 633 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,719 that's not driving at home. So I'm, you know, very involved 634 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:10,800 and they have things going on in their lives. 635 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:16,639 But I just feel like, yeah, like I just, I feel cheated really 636 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:20,719 out of what could have been, what should have been, what 637 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,920 could be. Yeah, that's such a good way of 638 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:27,360 saying it. If you could have a conversation 639 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,880 with your biological father, what would you want to say to 640 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:32,760 him? What questions do you have? 641 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:37,159 Kind of what I wrote in my letter was like, did you know? 642 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:40,679 Did you suspect anything? I don't understand how they 643 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:45,159 couldn't suspect something like, you know, but yeah, did you 644 00:34:45,159 --> 00:34:49,800 know, did you think about me? Did you ever want to reach out? 645 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:55,639 And now that I understand not, I mean wanting to upset your wife 646 00:34:55,639 --> 00:34:58,200 and current family, Would you like to hear about your 647 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,160 grandkids? Like I have these three amazing 648 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:05,360 children. I can't imagine someone not 649 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:09,120 wanting to know them. So yes, I'd like to know that 650 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:13,240 and I'd like to know what you know, What did you, how did you 651 00:35:13,240 --> 00:35:17,200 look my dad in in the eye 'cause you know, we all live near each 652 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,440 other. My dad and my bio dad, they 653 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:22,880 continued to be in the same community for decades. 654 00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:29,480 Like I understand people make mistakes or things happen, but a 655 00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,640 simple I'm sorry would go so far. 656 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:37,480 And that's another thing. My mom has never apologized for 657 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,880 for anything early, but you know, she just when I bring it 658 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,680 up, she just says I'm not sorry because I have you. 659 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,720 I'm not sorry because I still have you. 660 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:52,360 So her lack of accountability is a real trigger for me. 661 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:57,720 Yeah, that makes sense. Do you still have questions for 662 00:35:57,720 --> 00:36:00,120 her? Yes, but I've come to terms with 663 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,040 the fact that I'll never have the answers. 664 00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:06,080 And there's going to be a lack of trust there, probably. 665 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,560 We've kind of ebb and flow through our relationship the 666 00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,320 last two years because I don't think she was ever she. 667 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:16,920 Once the gates opened and I started to say my piece, I felt 668 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:22,400 like I couldn't say enough. And so I think that was a shock 669 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:29,120 to her that I was finally, you know, hey, what about this? 670 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:33,720 What about that? And she didn't wanna to deal 671 00:36:33,720 --> 00:36:36,240 with that. So and to this day, my so, my 672 00:36:36,240 --> 00:36:39,720 one brother that was raised with, he knows and he's told a 673 00:36:39,720 --> 00:36:44,480 few people. And but my brother who my dad 674 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:46,080 lives with, my birth certificate, dad lives with, 675 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:49,000 does not know because that's a very complex situation. 676 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:54,080 Like because I don't want to ask him to keep that from my dad. 677 00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:56,440 And I'm at the point where I'm ready to tell him. 678 00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,680 But others are like, no, because that would be too hard for him 679 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:03,840 to keep or, you know, he's just going to bother your mom with 680 00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:05,160 it. I didn't even tell anyone I was 681 00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,720 doing this podcast because I don't want to hear anyone else's 682 00:37:07,720 --> 00:37:10,520 opinions. Like I want to be able to share 683 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:14,720 what I need to share for myself, for my kids to eventually listen 684 00:37:14,720 --> 00:37:18,320 to, and for others. What advice do you have? 685 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:22,840 Or a parent who's keeping adna surprise from their child. 686 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:28,280 My advice is it's going to catch up with you, so go ahead and be 687 00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:32,040 honest and tell them. Especially like if your kids are 688 00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:35,960 like, I wasn't, although they didn't have any suspicions, they 689 00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,480 were still asking questions. Like I look back and there were 690 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:44,160 a few very key points where my mom should have shared, you 691 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:46,560 know, and said, hey, I don't know for sure, but there's a 692 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:50,360 possibility. Or hey, you're feeling this way, 693 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:55,240 probably because you know, there might be a chance, and then we 694 00:37:55,240 --> 00:37:56,640 could have figured it out together. 695 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:03,640 Yeah, that's such a important call out, is that especially 696 00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:07,720 when you're an adult, there's an opportunity to work through it 697 00:38:07,720 --> 00:38:10,960 together and heal together, and it's important. 698 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:15,720 Yeah. And what advice do you have for 699 00:38:15,720 --> 00:38:20,560 someone like yourself who has uncovered ADNA surprise? 700 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:26,600 So my first, and I think this is a common response, is to take a 701 00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:32,720 minute for yourself, breathe, and then also like feel the 702 00:38:32,720 --> 00:38:35,720 feelings. Like I very much gave myself 703 00:38:35,720 --> 00:38:41,160 permission to feel the feelings and thanks to my therapist help 704 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,480 name the feelings. So if I was mad, I said it, I'm 705 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:48,160 mad. If I was sad or, you know, I'm 706 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:50,040 feeling this way, I've got tears. 707 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:53,040 I'm sad because of this. And I would allow myself to kind 708 00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:56,840 of sit in those feelings, but I also wouldn't stay there. 709 00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:00,440 So I'd be like, all right, today I'm going to, you know, usually 710 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,520 it was like daily and like, I'm going to let myself be mad and 711 00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:05,680 rage because they're still going to be there. 712 00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,080 So if you don't acknowledge them, they're going to creep up 713 00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:11,520 on and and get you. So I think that's part of it is 714 00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:15,600 just take your time, feel the feelings, give yourself 715 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:19,080 permission to change your mind. So like in for me, in the 716 00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,160 beginning, I was like, I don't want to, you know, I'm not going 717 00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:22,240 to reach out. I don't want to do this. 718 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:27,240 But that's, I think was a reaction to how I was worried 719 00:39:27,240 --> 00:39:31,080 about it was how it's going to work out for my mom or what it 720 00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:32,680 was going to mean for other people. 721 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,360 So I, I needed to give myself permission to be like, you know 722 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,120 what, it's OK that I'm going to change my mind because this is a 723 00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:40,880 really, there's no guidebook for this. 724 00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:42,640 And so we're going to figure it out as we go. 725 00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:44,600 And if that means later I'm going to do something 726 00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:46,440 differently, then that's what I'm going to do. 727 00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:49,320 So I think that's important. Give yourself permission to 728 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:50,920 change your mind and how you deal with this. 729 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:54,720 And then if I could say one more, like figure out what's 730 00:39:54,720 --> 00:39:57,760 true to you. So for me, like I always said, 731 00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:00,960 like I know I'm going to be OK. I know I'm going to be OK. 732 00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:05,360 I know I'm loved and I know I'm going to be OK. 733 00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,080 And so the rest of it sometimes was just like chatter. 734 00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:11,400 Sometimes it was really loud and other times it died down. 735 00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:15,080 But I would just be like, OK. Nope, I'm going to be OK. 736 00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:17,360 This really hurts, but I'm going to be OK. 737 00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:20,040 So that's what I'd recommend is that just kind of come figure 738 00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:24,400 out what the what's true to you and for you and and just focus 739 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:29,480 on that. That was all such good advice, 740 00:40:29,720 --> 00:40:33,640 every every bit of it. I especially love the the naming 741 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:38,640 your feelings because there's so many feelings that we feel when 742 00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:41,320 we go through this and being able to really identify what 743 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,640 they are and then move through them. 744 00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:47,320 Like you said, not staying stuck there because, you know, 745 00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:50,040 sometimes you need to be angry for a while, but it doesn't feel 746 00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:51,920 good to be angry for long, right? 747 00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:55,360 And so, and sometimes it comes back and sometimes it leaves. 748 00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:58,400 And just to, to let yourself feel all of the feelings. 749 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,960 Angelina, thank you so much for joining me today and sharing 750 00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:04,560 your story. I think it's so important to 751 00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:08,360 highlight these different kinds of journeys and experiences that 752 00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:11,680 people have. And yours has a lot of nuance 753 00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:14,800 and complexity with who knows and who doesn't know. 754 00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:18,040 And there's still some level of uncertainty about what the 755 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:21,440 future looks like for you, but I wish you nothing but the best as 756 00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:23,920 you continue to figure it out and work through it. 757 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:27,280 Thank you so much. And I know a lot of guests say, 758 00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:31,720 say this, but really your podcast, I mean, it is so 759 00:41:31,720 --> 00:41:36,640 important the work because this is such a isolating feeling. 760 00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:39,960 And my husband loves me dearly and he wants to be supportive, 761 00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:43,880 and he has been, but there's no way that he can understand or 762 00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:47,280 feel what I'm feeling. But just listening to the 763 00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:51,320 podcast and knowing that there's a community out there, it is so 764 00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:53,480 incredibly important. So I really appreciate you 765 00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:57,280 taking your time to have me on and just continue to do what you 766 00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:59,040 do. Thank you so much. 767 00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:02,680 Thanks again to Angelina for sharing her story. 768 00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:06,200 If you have Adna Surprise that you'd like to share, please 769 00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:10,600 submit your story at dnasurprises.com and for early 770 00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,760 add free access to episodes, join me over on 771 00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:17,840 patreon@patreon.com/DNA Surprises. 772 00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:23,840 Until next time, This episode of DNA Surprises was hosted, 773 00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:27,880 produced and edited by me, Alexis Ourselt. 774 00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:32,720 It was mixed and mastered by Josh Ourselt of Siren Recording 775 00:42:32,720 --> 00:42:33,440 Studios.