It was wild. I mean, like all these memories
are flooding back. And there's during that process
for sure, some things came to mind where I thought, oh, boy,
yeah, that's that's interesting. You know, that's interesting
that my uncle said that. I remember him saying that and
me thinking that was weird, but not really learning anything
else about it. Or I remember my grandmother,
which would have been my dad's mom, making a comment once that
seemed fairly innocuous until I had some context.
And then all of a sudden it's like, oh, my goodness, that's
what she meant. So there was a lot of that.
But certainly, Yeah, no doubt. No doubt.
He was. He was my father.
I even looked like him. Welcome to DNA Surprises, a
podcast that explores the life altering world of unexpected DNA
discoveries. I'm your host Alexis Oursalt.
This show centers the stories of people who've experienced NP, ES
or non paternal events. In other words, people who've
learned that their biological father isn't who they thought he
was. We'll also hear from adoptees
donor conceived people and the families navigating these
discoveries. Get ready to follow the
incredible journeys that begin with a simple DNA test.
This is DNA Surprises. Papa was a Rolling Stone.
It's a tale as old as time and a phrase we've heard more than
once on the podcast. But sometimes there's more to
the story. Welcome to the Season 14
premiere of DNA Surprises. In this week's episode, Patrick
shares how taking a 23 Andme test out of curiosity led him
down an unimaginable Rd. one that made things make sense
while simultaneously upending everything he knew.
He shares how he made his discovery, from his initial
thoughts to what happened when he finally learned the truth.
Patrick also demonstrates a positive, empathetic mindset for
everyone involved in his story. Thank you for sharing your
story, Patrick. I'm Patrick, I'm 58 years old
and I live just outside of Toronto, Canada.
See, I'm already getting emotional.
I'm so kidding. For me, it started in about
2015. My wife and I decided to take
ADNA test for no other reason than to learn about some
hereditary stuff. And we had the Alzheimer's gene
and, and some other, you know, kind of interesting things.
And we, we did the swab, we sent it in and didn't think much of
it. Didn't learn anything new.
Quite honestly, I had no idea that there was even ADNA
relative aspect to this. I don't remember reading about
that or ticking a box that consented to that.
I had no idea and I had no reason to think that I would be
interested in that whatsoever. I thought I knew all the fish in
my bowl and just, you know, kind of put the report away and
didn't think much of it. And then six years later in, in
March of 2021, I was, it was Friday, middle of COVID, but it
was must have been a time in COVID where we could move about
because I was out getting a massage and I was a little early
for my massage. And I was waiting in the waiting
room for my therapist to come and get me.
And I was checking my phone and I got this e-mail.
It said you have an e-mail from so and so through 23andMe and
click click here to retrieve the e-mail.
I thought, well, that's really weird.
I've never never seen anything from 23andMe since I did this
test. That's a odd thing.
But then all of a sudden my massage therapist came out.
So I went in and did my massage. I ended up getting home that
afternoon around 4:00 or 5:00 and put my computer on and I was
sitting at the kitchen counter. I thought, Oh yeah, that that
e-mail, I should go and check that out.
That was hadn't really thought much of it.
Clicked on it. And there was this e-mail from a
girl who, yeah, this is going to be a lot.
I apologize. I got an e-mail from a girl in
Winnipeg. Her name was Christy, and she
had been looking for her biological father.
And it turns out that her and I shared the same biological
father. And I was floored by this.
My dad had passed away a year earlier of colon cancer.
And it was it was shocking that that my dad could have had
another child. I had two older sisters and then
my myself. And then this new sister would
have been I think she was six years younger than me.
So it was right in a time when, you know, my family unit was
together. So it was scandalous and and
shocking. Was your initial reaction like
instant acceptance that yes, my dad must have had an affair?
Or did you have denial? Like what were your thoughts?
I was certainly not in denial when I clicked on her profile to
answer that e-mail. She looked an awful lot like me,
or I would say looked an awful lot like me and my sisters, I
thought at the time. So no, I just, I just assumed,
you know, the obvious that holy smokes, my dad had an affair and
had another child. As I kind of learned more about
her story, it was sort of adding up, you know, the time frame
where she was from. And I knew it.
My dad did a little bit of travelling out West through his
job. So it was just it, it kind of
made sense. And so I started contacting my
family right away. I hadn't actually reached out to
Christy yet at this point. I contacted my family and I had
the screenshot of her picture and I passed it around to my two
sisters. As I mentioned, I passed it
around to them and said, wow, doesn't you know, doesn't she
look just like us? And their response immediately
was, well, she, she looks like you.
And I was like, oh, interesting, you know?
And then I, I remember calling my mom and my mom was actually
very much into DNA stuff. So she was into ancestry.
She'd done family trees. I remember when I first went on
23andMe, I got the report. She was curious and asked for my
username and password and which I gladly shared.
So I called my mom and and told her the story.
And you know, she was a bit dismissive of it.
Well, you know, she said, I don't know, that doesn't make a
lot of sense. And I'm like, so we got off the
phone and I was calling my wife and just kind of talking to
whoever would listen. And then I, I just kept coming
back to my mom and I'm like, my mom reacted a little strange to
that. So I called her back and I just
said, hey, mom, like, what are we?
What are you going to do here? I think we need to reach out to
this girl. I think she she would probably
like some answers and would like to talk to us.
And she said, Patrick, there's a story there, but we'll wait
till, you know, we're together over a bottle of wine.
And I, you know, obviously was not wanting to wait after a
statement like that. So I, I just kind of said, hey,
like, what's going on? Like, tell me, tell me what's
happening. And she, she told me that, you
know, that Christy and I likely did share the same father, but
it wasn't the father that I thought.
Wow, so that's a lot to process. You went from maybe thinking
something about your dad to now getting this new information.
How are you feeling? I remember I don't remember
falling down, but I remember ending up on the floor
literally. And my, my world just went
really dark. It was quite surreal.
I mean, I, I don't remember any part of the conversation after
that. I just remember sitting on the
kitchen floor crying like I am now.
And my wife had just actually walked in the house at that
point, and that's how she found me.
So she was, you know, obviously quite concerned.
I had really no idea, you know, who I was talking to her, what
was happening from that phone call.
I literally went down the hall to my bedroom and I laid in bed
and I don't think I got out of bed until Monday.
I literally wouldn't leave the bedroom.
It was, it was just a crazy time.
The biggest thing for me about it was the fact that I didn't
have a, A great relationship with my dad when he was a good
dad. Like, like, you know, he went
from a bit of a, you know, not not a great dad to a fantastic
dad When, when I learned the whole story.
Like, so he knew he knew all about this and, and raised me as
his own regardless. But as you can imagine, in a
situation like that, like it's not that father son bond is not
going to be the same. And I think I struggled with
that my entire life. So I've spent my parents ended
up getting divorced when I was 11 and I ended up having just,
you know, this very strained relationship with my dad.
I always had this sense that I didn't belong.
I always had this sense that he wasn't proud of me.
I never, never thought he didn't love me.
It wasn't that. It was just I, I saw the way my
friends interacted with their dads and I saw dads on TV
interacting with their TV children.
And it just, it wasn't what I had.
And I struggled with that a lot of my life.
And my dad and I went through periods where we didn't see much
of each other. So when he left when I was 11,
my sisters are a couple of years older than me, we saw him every
Sunday night for dinner and we did the odd sleepover, but, you
know, maybe once or twice a year kind of thing.
It wasn't wasn't much. So I was really raised by my mom
and my two sisters, and my mom remarried shortly after, as did
my dad. And I just kind of was one of
those things where I loved my dad and I and I always knew he
loved me, but it was just always, there was always just
something there that I really couldn't put my finger on.
Did you ever wonder if he was your father or was it not so far
as that just you didn't have the relationship that maybe you
hoped for? I definitely did not wonder if
he was my father. I think that's why it hit me
like a ton of bricks. There was like just no reason
for me to believe anything else. Going back is one of the things.
From that phone call and sitting on the kitchen floor to laying
in bed all weekend. I literally replayed every
moment of my life. It was wild.
I mean, like all of these memories are flooding back.
And there's during that process for sure, some things came to
mind where I thought, oh boy, yeah, that's that's interesting.
You know, that's interesting that my uncle said that.
I remember him saying that and me thinking that was weird, but
not really learning anything else about it.
Or I remember my grandmother, which would have been my dad's
mom, making a comment once that seemed fairly innocuous until I
had some context. And then all of a sudden it's
like, oh, my goodness, that's what she meant.
So there was a lot of that. But certainly.
Yeah, no doubt. No doubt.
He was. He was my father.
I even looked like him. I would look at pictures and I
would think we look alike. I mean, we're both English, so I
guess that's we end up kind of looking the same for that
reason. It absolutely floored me.
And, you know, basically began a period of my life that I would
say has been the most important and impactful and growth period
in, in my life. And it's so it's all been
amazing. Bittersweet for sure.
It's been a process. So from that moment of finding
out about my dad and now meeting my new sister, the search now
focused on, OK, who's my real dad?
Because I actually now, I'm now I'm in the same boat as this gal
from Winnipeg and I would like to know who my father is.
My mom was not a ton of help. My mom gave me a first name and
a little bit of information to go on.
Christie's mother had no information in fact, and
disagreed that that was the first name.
So we were now kind of like, but my mom was 100% like, go like
take it to the bank. That's his first name.
And she didn't know his last name.
She just knew that name. So the search began and it, it
basically consumed my life. Like I was, you know, probably
12 hours a day working on it, thinking about it online all the
time, looking up every single lead I could find, looking in
databases. I went on all of the other DNA
services that were available to try and match some DNA there.
I probably sent out 1000 emails to people.
Anyone that kind of had a match of, you know, 1% or higher got a
note from me and there was a cut and paste note that I, you know,
would say, hey, I'm, you know, born in 1968 and this is the
area I was born in. And I'm, I'm looking for a, a
man, I believe he's, his name is George and he's probably in his
early 80s and yadda, yadda, yadda.
And I would just cut and paste and send and send and send.
I think it had to have been about 1000 emails that I sent.
And I got precisely 0 emails back from anybody.
I'm, I'm not even sure that they made it to them.
It was out, you know, approaching, you know, kind of
two or three months later and I was starting to lose hope.
I was thinking I'm just not going to find out.
At this point. I assumed he was dead anyway, so
there was nothing about me that wanted to find this person and
meet him and have any sort of relationship.
I, I was not even down for that. Like it was just, I just wanted
to know who he was. And I'm a bit of a health nut
and I like to know that sort of thing.
So I would have liked to know, Hey, is there anything I should
be looking out for? And incidentally, I should
mention one of the one of the things with my father is he had
died the year before this came out and he had died of colon
cancer and his brother had died of prostate cancer very young.
So I've been living with this kind of fear of colon cancer and
prostate cancer, and as such would get a lot of testing, a
lot of intrusive testing because I was really quite worried about
this. And so that that also became
kind of an issue, You know, where I was, I remember saying
to my mom once, like, you know, like you could have, you could
have stopped that, like you could have put my mind at ease.
And I understand why she didn't. But it was just like, there's,
you know, I'd be lying if I said there's, there's never been
anger. There certainly isn't anger now
at all. And there I wouldn't say anger
ever LED the theme, but it was there was little bits of it
would surface every now and then I'm.
Curious, you said that you were not particularly interested in a
relationship with this person, that you're trying to find your
your biological father. Why was that?
Was it just you just wanted the information?
Did did you feel like even though your relationship with
your dad wasn't the best, he was your dad?
Or what were your feelings there?
Yeah, yeah, To me, my dad was my dad and I think it was most it
wasn't that I wasn't open to anything, but it was certainly
did I I wasn't leading with that.
Like it wasn't any any. I wasn't searching for anything.
I was more curious than anything.
I would, I would just there's a man out there who's my father
and who is he? What does he do?
What did he do with his life? How did he move through life?
Where is he from? Where did he live?
Who did he marry? What did he do for work?
You know, all of those just things that would be like just
did your. Mom share a little bit more
about the circumstances that she met this person and how your dad
came to raise you. My mom was married with with two
daughters and and just moved from England to Canada with my
two sisters who were born in England and my dad.
And they I guess at that point what happened happened and she
got pregnant with me. My dad was still in the picture
and continued to be in the picture and knew but decided to,
you know, to stick around. And they made that work for 11
more years kind of thing. And then it it the marriage
finally dissolved. So yeah, this is this is where
the story kind of gets interesting.
It was May and I remember it was Masters weekend and Masters is
typically in April, but it had been moved that year due to
COVID. I was doing what I would usually
do on a Sunday, which is not a lot and watching golf on TV and
all of a sudden I got a Ding on my phone and it was a new
connection from 23andMe and I thought, oh, that's a can of
worms. Last time that happened, my life
got turned upside down. I opened up the e-mail and same
same thing as before. I had to had to kind of click
through 23andMe and it was this kid that he was 25 years old and
he lived about 30 minutes from me and we shared, I want to say
8 or 9% DNA. So it was, it was huge.
Like I'd never, there was nobody that that came close to that
kind of amount of DNA other than my half sister.
So I immediately reached out to him.
I sent him an e-mail. He hadn't emailed me.
He had just connected like a friend request or something,
which I thought was a little odd, but he, I immediately
connected with him and he responded right away.
And I, I just said, hey, like, you know, same spiel.
Born in 68. I'm looking for this guy George.
And he responded right back. And he's like, hey, yeah.
Like my mom just reconnected with her biological dad about 10
years ago. And, and his name's George and
I'm like, Oh my God, like your, your mom's my half sister.
And I'm like, this is, this is incredible.
And, and I said, Hey, you know, here's, here's my phone number.
Would you mind, would you mind sharing this with your mom?
I would really, really love to connect with her.
She can call me anytime. I just kind of hung back on
that. And I was like, wow, this is,
you know, all of a sudden now I'm getting somewhere because
she knows George. I know that she knows who he is.
So now I'm, I'm very close to to finding this person as I'm
waiting for his mom, Lori, to call me back.
I messaged him one more time because I didn't even think to
ask is George alive still? And his response was, yeah,
George is, is alive and, and he lives in LA and here's his
Facebook profile. And I was like, oh, wow.
OK. I clicked through on his
Facebook profile. And I wasn't a big Facebook
person at that time, so I didn't really know how to navigate the
system. But I, I figured out how to send
him a message. So I decided to send him a
message and I started writing kind of a longer heartfelt
message. I think you, you know, you could
be my father. And, you know, I would love to
connect and learn a little bit more.
And, you know, and I was also said, if this message doesn't
land well for whatever reason, no problem.
I don't need anything. I'm just thought you'd want to
know I'm here and maybe connect. And then I got off Facebook and
started working the phones and calling friends and people and
tell them like, Hey, I think I found my dad.
It was interesting because I went back and forth on Facebook
trying to like see if I could find more information.
And then all of a sudden I I found this little button that
said photos. And I was like, oh, and I
clicked on it and I almost fell off my chair 'cause it was
literally me looking back at me. And he even had pictures on his
Facebook profile that were publicly available of him when
he was the age I was at looking at these pictures.
So it was literally like looking at me.
It was to the point where he had that, like, dark kind of shaggy
hair. I don't know why his hair looked
like that, but I sent a screenshot of it to one of my
good friends. And his reply was, why?
Why are you sending me a picture of you in a wig?
And I was like, it's it's not me, it's my dad.
And yeah, so it was, that was pretty wild.
So I did hear back from Lori within a couple of hours.
And by, I think 8:00 that night, I was on a FaceTime call with,
geez, I want to say eight people, including him, his wife.
I think both There's there. So it turns out there's 8 kids
of George and from 5 different moms, I believe we were all,
there might have been 1 missing from that call.
But we, yeah, by Sunday night of, of the day, I, I found them,
we were all on this call for and literally from all over the
country, you know, you know, Winnipeg, Calgary, Vancouver, LA
and then a couple in Ontario. And it was, it was surreal.
So we, I think that call would have lasted definitely hours.
We were on the phone, people were dropping off the call.
And then I think at the end it was just me, Christy, because
because he had just found out about both of us at the same
time, obviously, and he had no idea about either of us.
So it wasn't like he knew we existed and he's just been kind
of ignoring it. He had no clue, you know, it was
back at that. That was the time there were no
cell phones or e-mail or anything.
And he was, turns out, a musician and just kind of
traveling across Canada playing music and making babies.
So yeah, it was, it was, it was pretty wild.
Yeah. What was his reaction?
Was he excited? How was your conversation with
him? I don't think he could have been
more excited. The craziest thing to me and,
and the most heartwarming thing is his wife was maybe more
excited. They've been married for 40
years. After he's kind of gone through
Canada, he made his way down to the US and he built a really
great life for himself. And he he married a wonderful
woman and they had two kids. The youngest would have been
like 35 and the oldest would have been 62.
So it's a, a pretty big gap. And then there's this missing
period in between all of our ages that we all kind of scratch
our heads every now and then and say, I wonder if there's
somebody else. But we think we think they would
have surfaced by now. So we had that Zoom call and
then we ended up just my sister and him and his wife on the
phone and another hour to just us.
And it was literally him just telling stories and we were all
ears. He's a pretty interesting guy
and he's got a lot of crazy stories and really, really likes
to tell him. So that was kind of fun.
After that there was a few conversations and then we had
planned to all get together and at least the Canadian siblings
did. So there there was definitely a
bit of a standoffish vibe from the two brothers in in
California at first at that that, you know, kind of went
away. But at first that there, you
know, so that the older siblings, the ones that were in
Canada, we all kind of had more in common because we all really
didn't have George in our life. And they did.
But yeah, Fast forward to Labor Day weekend, the entire Canadian
group of us, which is 6 and spouses all you know, spent I
think 3 or 4 days together at my house.
So they all kind of came to Ontario or, or if they were in
Ontario came over and, and we just had this crazy weekend
together. It was absolutely magical.
I still remember like so many like details and conversations
and the laughs and just the, it was just amazing.
I would say that that you put these six people in a room that
have this magical connection, but no 0 baggage from the past
there. A couple of them did know each
other, but you know, for the most part, like we're all just
kind of getting to know each other, but we all look the same.
We all laugh the same, We all think the same.
We're all very different people for sure.
We were all very different paths in life, but there was just this
amazing connection and then we've, you know, since been on a
few other trips. So we ended up doing the same
thing in Winnipeg at my sister's place.
And then we've done a trip to Palm Springs where my brothers,
my California brothers joined and my dad and I think three or
four of us went down from Canada.
So yeah, it's been great. I'm in California at least once
a year for work. So I, I made a point, you know,
early on that I, I would hang with him, but the first time I
met him was, was February of 22. So we hadn't connected live yet
and my sister Christy and I decided that we wanted to travel
down to meet him. So we did.
We spent I think 3 days. That was pretty crazy.
There was a snowstorm in Winnipeg so she was actually a
day late and I was kind of struggling there as I was like,
you know, I really wanted to meet him together but I can't
sit here for 20. I can't wait.
Like I, we have a plan. He's coming over like, I'm not
going to change it. And she was like, totally cool
with that. And I remember sitting outside
the hotel I was staying at in Santa Monica at this little
courtyard. And there's this big tall hedge.
And I was just sitting out out on a table in the courtyard,
just kind of watching this little opening in the hedge
where he would enter. And I actually recorded and I
had my phone just on like standing on the table, leaning
up against a, a glass just 'cause I just, I don't know, I
wanted to have it on, on video. But yeah, it was a very special.
Moment. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It was, it was pretty wild when he he walked around that corner
when I met my sister Christy for the first time.
So she came for that Labor Day weekend.
She came a few days early and we went to a baseball game.
And that was, that was pretty emotional too, 'cause it was
like we talked on the phone and see each other, but then to all
of a sudden lay eyes on her, like, and we were in a crowd.
We met like actually, you know, outside of the baseball stadium
and to actually lay eyes on her and just like embrace her, it
was like it was pretty special. And it was the same with my dad
when he, when my dad came, came around the corner and we just
hugged each other and, you know, didn't, didn't stop for a while.
You know, it was really cool. Yeah, I mean, it sounds like you
have a really healthy attitude about this experience.
Did you ever have or did you find out from your brothers who
were raised by George what kind of a dad he was?
And did you ever have these moments of what if George had
been in my life? Did you ever have those what if
thoughts? No, no, I didn't for a couple of
reasons. What like George and with all
respect and love, like I I'm I think I dodged a bullet.
Not sure. Yeah, because at that time
anyway, in his life, like he was not like, So he before he had
me, he had two sisters and a brother and they, he had them
very, very young. And his wife and him split up, I
think when the kids were all, you know, toddlers and the kids
at that time. It sounds crazy now, but that's
kind of the way it went back then is the kids all went into
foster care basically. So they all they those three
kids got split up and so they didn't really have much much
experience with George. They're they do have some
memories for sure. And I think he did, you know,
kind of pop in and out of their lives every now and then.
But I don't think he was overly involved.
And I'd say out of all of us, like those three and for good
reason, have the toughest time, you know, kind of relating to
George at this point when there's they all have very
different relationships. It's funny, we all eight of us
had very different relationships with him.
I try and appreciate everybody's point of view.
Chrissy and I have no skin in the game.
We're just, we just met this guy for the first time.
He didn't know about us. So, you know, we've got
absolutely nothing against them. But sometimes that that's
created, you know, a little bit of, of tension in the group.
I think every, like I said, everyone's got their own kind of
experience and relationship. But yeah, no, I've never, I
never wondered what life would be like.
I think I had, you know, I had AI had a really great childhood.
I'd, I'd say when I think about my life up until 11, I think
things definitely got turned upside down when I was 11 when
my dad left. But up until then, I, I, I was
very happy, very happy kid. You mentioned that your mom
doesn't want to talk about George or or anything around
that. Does she know that you've
connected with him? What does she think of you
having a relationship with him? Yeah, so my mom is the saddest
part of the story. When it all came out, you know,
my mom was felt understandably a lot of shame.
We tried our best to make her comfortable.
I remember, you know, that weekend that I laid in bed all
weekend. I asked my wife, can you please
send send my mom some flowers. Just send her some flowers.
Tell her I love her and like just, you know, but I had no
capacity to, to talk to her or to do anything, but I just
needed her to know this is fine. And we tried our best to make
her feel that. But unfortunately she just
decided to kind of pull back. And so she, we don't really see
much of her anymore, sadly. We invite her to Christmas.
I think I'm not even sure if we did.
This might be the first year we didn't.
I, I basically said to my wife like I, I can't, I, I feel like
I'm exposing myself just to be let down every time I invite her
somewhere 'cause I know the answer's no.
So I said, let's just stop this, you know, foolishness.
So she knows I'm, I'm here and if she wants to reconnect, we
would. But there's really not much of a
relationship outside of Merry Christmas, happy birthday and
that's about it. Was that a sharp turn from
before you made this discovery? I, I mean, yes and no.
It definitely got turned upside down, but it wasn't like I had
one of those relationships where we're seeing each other every
week and talking on the phone every day like our relationship
was. And it's typical I find with
most of my friends, especially from England.
And, and there's something about England, it's not even Europe,
it's England. They're just the relationships
with parents are a little, a little different sometimes.
So I'd say we were, you know, we were as close as I needed to be.
And I think, you know, we were as close as she needed to be.
We spent all our holidays together and we did lots of
things. But yeah, I don't want it this
way. I would rather her be part of
our lives. I've two children and and two
stepchildren and I I would rather that she be part of that,
but she's chosen not to. And I understand, you know, I
think she in her mind, she thought she would go to her
grave with this secret. And you know, it came out before
that, obviously. And it it didn't sit well.
I remember when she told me she prefaced everything by I'm going
to tell you this once and I never want to talk about it
again. And I don't want you telling
people. Then I said, well, that's
absolutely not gonna happen. I said there's no, I, I'm not
not telling people like this is my life.
You know, I think she was, she was just embarrassed and
ashamed. And it just easier to avoid the
situation than than be around. I'm so shocked to hear you say
that you sent flowers to your mom the weekend that you found
out. I think that is an absolute
first that I've ever heard on this podcast.
And you know, listeners know that that my take on things is
definitely 1 of empathy and and compassion for a lot of the
mothers in our in our situation. So I, I'm really curious, like
in the midst of not being able to get out of bed, dealing with
this massive shift in your reality and your foundation, why
was it so important to you to make sure that your mom knew
that you loved her and cared about her and if you wanted to
reach out? Well, I would, I, I mean, quite
simply, I was raised that way, you know, So I think my mom had
everything to do with that. I'm an empathetic person for
sure. And I do deeply, deeply care
about about people. I love people in my life.
Like I said before, there was no there was there little bits of
anger have popped up, but very, very, very little like that and
and way overshadowed by just like like everything's fine mom,
like nobody, nobody cares. We tried to convince her of that
so many times. I think she was just embarrassed
to come around. You know, my in laws who you
know, are here, You know, we have a pretty big family that's
that gathers for pretty much any reason we can think to gather.
My mom would have been part of a lot of that and I just think she
didn't want to be around. I know, you know, we grew up in
the church and a lot of her friends from the church she's
kind of distance herself from because she knows they know
because we're all on Facebook. And I would post every time I
was with my siblings or with my dad, there was a post that went
along with it. When I look back, I think, you
know, could I have done anything differently yet?
I don't think so. I don't think I would.
Even the posting and stuff, to me, it was this was my life.
I really wanted to share my story.
I wanted people to know. I wanted everyone to know.
And I remember talking to my stepmother, the wife of of my
dad and like the first call she got was from my dad's other
brother. He had two brothers.
One died that invention of prostate cancer.
The other one is alive and well, living in England and called her
up right away. And like, I just saw this crazy
post on Facebook what's happening?
And she's like, Oh yeah, it's. They really.
Kept it secret. They kept it secret.
They kept it. Yeah, yeah, totally.
Wow. What about your sisters?
Your raised sisters that you grew up with?
What do they think of all this? That's a great question.
So I think my two sisters, I was and am very close with one one I
am I'm just not very close with at all.
So our relationship that we don't really have one, but we
really didn't have much of 1 before.
Like we would see each other, you know, because we got
together with my mom and stuff, I'd see her, but now that's not
happening. I don't see her either.
And no, no drama, no event that happened.
It was just we just had a don't don't have a ton in common and
and never really stayed tight. My other sister, who I'm very,
very close with, it was hard for her for sure.
I included her in everything. So even that Labor Day weekend,
she came, she didn't stay the whole weekend, but she was
included in it. But I think she had a hard time.
I think, and I understand, like I, I think she was a little bit
in the middle of my mom and me. And, you know, although there
shouldn't have been tension there, there's, I think there,
there was tension that was kind of building.
And I don't know why, but I think my sister felt, you know,
kind of protective over my mom. And that was fine.
And then I, I think she thought that, you know, maybe I was, you
know, getting a little too, too cozy with this new family.
And but it was for me, it was, you know, it was interesting.
We were all just getting to know each other.
So, yeah, we, we saw a lot of each other.
We talked a lot to each other. And I think that that definitely
rubbed my sister the wrong way. There was no, no issue.
But I think we needed to come back together and we did.
And and we're as close as ever now.
And incidentally, all of the relationships with all of the
people involved have kind of level set now.
So it's almost normalized. I think I, I got what I needed
out of everything. I got all of the answers I
needed. I went on a whole self healing
pursuit. You know, it was amazing for me.
And you know, a lot of regret for me is that I didn't get to
to talk to my dad after this came out.
There's a lot of things I would have said to him, you know?
Yeah, I bet it give you gave you such a new perspective and
appreciation for him or appreciation for his point of
view and where he was coming from.
Yeah. Absolutely.
Yeah, absolutely. No, he's he, he became a hero.
I went from not really thinking about him a whole lot to now I
think about him probably more than I ever have.
And. And in a good way.
Like I would just always think happy thoughts and memories.
And, you know, I have pictures of him on, you know, my digital
picture frame. And he's my dad to me, you know?
At the beginning you said that this period of time since you
made your discovery has been some of the most profound kind
of period of time of your life. And you just touched on kind of
a, a healing journey. What what have been the most
helpful things in helping you process this and integrate it
and accept it? I think for me it was just
understanding like that, that there is some, there was
something. So then it was like, OK, well
now, now I know what it is. Now I can put a label on it.
Now I can go and get the help I need to kind of get through the
other stuff. So I didn't, I didn't need
therapy to get through the situation.
This situation was fine. I was OK to get through it.
What it did is it just kind of opened, you know, a whole can of
worms were, like I said, I, you know, I replayed my entire life
and all of these things started falling into place and all these
patterns that I have and the way I feel were just part of me, but
they weren't part of me. They were because of these
things that had happened or, or that I had perceived.
So that was probably the greatest thing I did and the
greatest gift I gave to myself was going to a, a, a place
called Hoffman. I'm not sure if you're familiar,
but Hoffman is, it's a retreat and it's, it's you go for seven
days and it's a total like unplug and you know, 15-16 hours
a day of just group work, not therapy.
You never, you don't talk about your issues because the whole
thing with Hoffman is we all have childhood trauma and
Hoffman is about addressing childhood trauma.
They don't care what it is. The stories are all different.
The results are exactly the same.
That really changed a lot for me.
And then just, you know, just getting comfortable in my own
skin. Like when you go from feeling
like you don't belong to understanding why you felt you
didn't belong. It's, it's amazing.
It just unlocked kind of everything for me.
And it was like, well, I don't feel this way because I
shouldn't belong or I'm not good enough or I'm all these things
that have fed my mind for all these years.
I don't, I feel I don't belong because I actually didn't
belong, you know? You know, it was real and it
wasn't. It was subtle, I'm sure.
And like I said, I don't remember.
Like nobody ever told me and nobody ever made me feel that
way. But there was, there would have
been something and that over the years just kind of programmed me
to feel that way, that I just wasn't good enough.
I remember when I started my business and, and I was never
meant to be successful. I think most people that knew me
when I was 15 years old, including my my own parents
would have thought that I wasn't really going to amount to
anything. And then I kind of did.
And, you know, through through that, I think, you know, I used
to always think about my dad and like, he never would really ask
me too much about my business and we never came to visit my
office. And, you know, just, you know,
it was just weird to me. It was just like, man, if my
kid, especially a kid I didn't think was going to actually
achieve anything, did what I did, I would be over the moon.
I would be like, how can I help? Or, you know, roll up my sleeve,
Let's go. Like, what can I do to be
evolved? But he would just had zero
interest in it. And you know, that also makes
sense to me, you know, like he wouldn't have felt that same
level of pride because I'm not his son.
So it's just, I get it. And and it's not, that's not
meant in any disparaging way against him.
He loved me. I I know he did, but I wasn't
his son. So that would have informed kind
of everything that that happened in their relationship.
Well, and I mean, obviously we don't know what he what exactly
what he was feeling or thinking, but I imagine still there's
probably a lot of hurt and things that were tied into that
time in his life. And you know, even though he
made a decision to move forward, you know, we, we don't know how
he how he felt. One of the great things about,
you know, putting all the pieces together was the music.
I never really thought about it that much, but in hindsight, I
was like, yeah, why am I the only musical one in the family?
Why am I the only one interested in music and, and playing music
and no one else really is? And then, you know, it turns out
my dad, you know, basically made his living playing music.
So that was, that was pretty cool.
And and, you know, just kind of piercing that stuff together.
I remember the first time my dad and I connected in California,
and when he came over to that hotel, he'd brought a couple of
guitars with him. And, and you know, I've got this
video of him and I just kind of jamming away on these acoustic
guitars. And it was, it was magical.
Like it was really, really special.
That's amazing. And Yep, this is an audio based
podcast, but I'm I'm looking at Patrick and he's got guitars on
the wall behind him. He's got this whole jam room.
And so, yeah, I definitely had the thought as well.
That kind of makes sense that George was the.
Musician. And so are you.
Yeah, one of the things about being a musician is you would
like to write songs and write music.
And I've really tried my entire life to write a song and I've
just never been able to. I've read books on it.
I've tried countless times to pull together meaningful song
and just couldn't do it. And then throughout all this
situation, probably the best gift I got might have been this
is that I I got out of bed 1 morning while it was all kind of
in the thick of it. And I sat on the couch and I
picked up my guitar and the song came out of me and it was
remarkable. And I feverishly wrote down
melodies and chords and, and put lyrics together.
It was amazing. I haven't been able to do it
since, but I did it. And it really, it's my story
basically from beginning to end in a song.
And I've recently had it professionally recorded and
it's, you know, on Spotify and everywhere.
I couldn't be more proud. And I love, I love sharing it.
Yeah, that's amazing. If you would send me the link,
I'd be happy to put that in the show notes.
What advice do you have for a parent who may be keeping adna
surprise from their child? Well, yeah, that's quite simple.
There. There are no secrets anymore.
So I think it's it, you know, gone are the days where you can
hope that this will stay under wraps.
It won't. And I think it's, it's very, you
know, important that you you get to have these conversations
while you can, you know, and, and because if you've got a
child that you want to say something to and then you die
and you don't and they find out, I mean, I think it leaves a lot
of just a lot of open questions, you know, So, yeah, I mean it
based on my experience, I sure wish my mom would have told me,
would have loved to have of talk to my dad about it.
It would have completely changed my relationship with my dad.
We still would have had one. We would have had an amazing
relationship, you know, if if I had of known and I think it
would have been, it would have been good for my mom too.
We could have eased into it together and not had a a big
dramatic moment. It would have been nice to just
kind of talk about this and get it out in the open.
But having said that, I completely understand why she
didn't and I get that completely, but I would just say
the truth will set you free. You know, this must have been
eating away at her all her life. My wife and I talk about it all
the time and like she this would have consumed her like in
everything she did, you know, and I truly believe that.
So, you know, like, like anything, any situation, I think
the truth definitely will set you free.
And what advice do you have for someone who just uncovered Adna
surprise? Oh yeah, I'd say just take it in
and try and lead with love and empathy and don't let anger get
in the way of anything because it will creep in depending on
the situation. But it's not useful and not
helpful. And I think if you could just
have an open mind and try and understand that everybody's got
their story and everybody's got their reason.
It's not a a blame game or an anger thing.
It's just a, OK, here's our new reality, let's get into it.
What's happening, you know, and I think that's that's really
important. I think that would be my advice
for sure. Patrick, thank you so much for
coming on the podcast and sharing your story.
What a journey you have been on. I felt like I was riding a
roller coaster with you from the beginning, but what a beautiful,
you know, ultimately and overall kind of beautiful resolution
that you've had in these relationships that you've built
and the compassion that you show your mother.
I hope that things just continue to move in a wonderful direction
as you build these relationships.
Yeah. Thank you very much.
Thanks again to Patrick for sharing his story.
If you'd like to listen to Patrick's song, Dark Horse, you
can check it out in the show notes.
If you have adna surprise that you'd like to share, please
submit your story at dnasurprises.com and for early
add free access to episodes, join me over on
patreon@patreon.com/DNA Surprises.
Until next time. DNA Surprises is hosted,
produced and edited by me, Alexis Our Salt.
It is mixed and mastered by Josh Oursalt of Siren Recording
Studios.