1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:02,880 It was wild. I mean, like all these memories 2 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:06,120 are flooding back. And there's during that process 3 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:10,160 for sure, some things came to mind where I thought, oh, boy, 4 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:13,120 yeah, that's that's interesting. You know, that's interesting 5 00:00:13,120 --> 00:00:16,280 that my uncle said that. I remember him saying that and 6 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:19,320 me thinking that was weird, but not really learning anything 7 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:21,320 else about it. Or I remember my grandmother, 8 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:24,040 which would have been my dad's mom, making a comment once that 9 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:28,800 seemed fairly innocuous until I had some context. 10 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:30,960 And then all of a sudden it's like, oh, my goodness, that's 11 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:33,280 what she meant. So there was a lot of that. 12 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:35,720 But certainly, Yeah, no doubt. No doubt. 13 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:37,680 He was. He was my father. 14 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:41,760 I even looked like him. Welcome to DNA Surprises, a 15 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:45,920 podcast that explores the life altering world of unexpected DNA 16 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:50,000 discoveries. I'm your host Alexis Oursalt. 17 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:54,840 This show centers the stories of people who've experienced NP, ES 18 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:59,480 or non paternal events. In other words, people who've 19 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:02,920 learned that their biological father isn't who they thought he 20 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:06,560 was. We'll also hear from adoptees 21 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:10,840 donor conceived people and the families navigating these 22 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:14,040 discoveries. Get ready to follow the 23 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:18,640 incredible journeys that begin with a simple DNA test. 24 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:25,200 This is DNA Surprises. Papa was a Rolling Stone. 25 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:30,720 It's a tale as old as time and a phrase we've heard more than 26 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:35,200 once on the podcast. But sometimes there's more to 27 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:39,160 the story. Welcome to the Season 14 28 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:44,520 premiere of DNA Surprises. In this week's episode, Patrick 29 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:49,040 shares how taking a 23 Andme test out of curiosity led him 30 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:54,120 down an unimaginable Rd. one that made things make sense 31 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:58,240 while simultaneously upending everything he knew. 32 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:02,760 He shares how he made his discovery, from his initial 33 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:06,120 thoughts to what happened when he finally learned the truth. 34 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:12,320 Patrick also demonstrates a positive, empathetic mindset for 35 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:17,720 everyone involved in his story. Thank you for sharing your 36 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:23,480 story, Patrick. I'm Patrick, I'm 58 years old 37 00:02:23,640 --> 00:02:26,360 and I live just outside of Toronto, Canada. 38 00:02:27,920 --> 00:02:29,120 See, I'm already getting emotional. 39 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,520 I'm so kidding. For me, it started in about 40 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:37,480 2015. My wife and I decided to take 41 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:41,800 ADNA test for no other reason than to learn about some 42 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:45,240 hereditary stuff. And we had the Alzheimer's gene 43 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:47,640 and, and some other, you know, kind of interesting things. 44 00:02:47,640 --> 00:02:51,960 And we, we did the swab, we sent it in and didn't think much of 45 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:53,600 it. Didn't learn anything new. 46 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:58,800 Quite honestly, I had no idea that there was even ADNA 47 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:03,320 relative aspect to this. I don't remember reading about 48 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:05,680 that or ticking a box that consented to that. 49 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:10,120 I had no idea and I had no reason to think that I would be 50 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:13,120 interested in that whatsoever. I thought I knew all the fish in 51 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:17,280 my bowl and just, you know, kind of put the report away and 52 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:21,440 didn't think much of it. And then six years later in, in 53 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:27,520 March of 2021, I was, it was Friday, middle of COVID, but it 54 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:30,360 was must have been a time in COVID where we could move about 55 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:34,080 because I was out getting a massage and I was a little early 56 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:36,080 for my massage. And I was waiting in the waiting 57 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:37,960 room for my therapist to come and get me. 58 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:41,120 And I was checking my phone and I got this e-mail. 59 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:46,120 It said you have an e-mail from so and so through 23andMe and 60 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:47,920 click click here to retrieve the e-mail. 61 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:49,600 I thought, well, that's really weird. 62 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:53,000 I've never never seen anything from 23andMe since I did this 63 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:54,480 test. That's a odd thing. 64 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:56,840 But then all of a sudden my massage therapist came out. 65 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:59,680 So I went in and did my massage. I ended up getting home that 66 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:05,440 afternoon around 4:00 or 5:00 and put my computer on and I was 67 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:07,640 sitting at the kitchen counter. I thought, Oh yeah, that that 68 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:09,400 e-mail, I should go and check that out. 69 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:10,880 That was hadn't really thought much of it. 70 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:13,920 Clicked on it. And there was this e-mail from a 71 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:19,560 girl who, yeah, this is going to be a lot. 72 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:24,320 I apologize. I got an e-mail from a girl in 73 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:27,960 Winnipeg. Her name was Christy, and she 74 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:29,880 had been looking for her biological father. 75 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:33,040 And it turns out that her and I shared the same biological 76 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:36,560 father. And I was floored by this. 77 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:41,520 My dad had passed away a year earlier of colon cancer. 78 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:45,520 And it was it was shocking that that my dad could have had 79 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:49,840 another child. I had two older sisters and then 80 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,400 my myself. And then this new sister would 81 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:56,920 have been I think she was six years younger than me. 82 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:00,600 So it was right in a time when, you know, my family unit was 83 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:03,080 together. So it was scandalous and and 84 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:06,000 shocking. Was your initial reaction like 85 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:13,000 instant acceptance that yes, my dad must have had an affair? 86 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:16,400 Or did you have denial? Like what were your thoughts? 87 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:21,880 I was certainly not in denial when I clicked on her profile to 88 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:25,600 answer that e-mail. She looked an awful lot like me, 89 00:05:26,280 --> 00:05:29,480 or I would say looked an awful lot like me and my sisters, I 90 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:32,760 thought at the time. So no, I just, I just assumed, 91 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:37,600 you know, the obvious that holy smokes, my dad had an affair and 92 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:40,120 had another child. As I kind of learned more about 93 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:43,640 her story, it was sort of adding up, you know, the time frame 94 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:45,320 where she was from. And I knew it. 95 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:47,640 My dad did a little bit of travelling out West through his 96 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:49,320 job. So it was just it, it kind of 97 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:52,240 made sense. And so I started contacting my 98 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:55,280 family right away. I hadn't actually reached out to 99 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:58,800 Christy yet at this point. I contacted my family and I had 100 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,960 the screenshot of her picture and I passed it around to my two 101 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:04,120 sisters. As I mentioned, I passed it 102 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:07,160 around to them and said, wow, doesn't you know, doesn't she 103 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:09,840 look just like us? And their response immediately 104 00:06:09,840 --> 00:06:11,720 was, well, she, she looks like you. 105 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,080 And I was like, oh, interesting, you know? 106 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:19,360 And then I, I remember calling my mom and my mom was actually 107 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:23,840 very much into DNA stuff. So she was into ancestry. 108 00:06:23,840 --> 00:06:28,520 She'd done family trees. I remember when I first went on 109 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:32,080 23andMe, I got the report. She was curious and asked for my 110 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:35,720 username and password and which I gladly shared. 111 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:39,400 So I called my mom and and told her the story. 112 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:41,800 And you know, she was a bit dismissive of it. 113 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:44,120 Well, you know, she said, I don't know, that doesn't make a 114 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:46,600 lot of sense. And I'm like, so we got off the 115 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:50,040 phone and I was calling my wife and just kind of talking to 116 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:52,600 whoever would listen. And then I, I just kept coming 117 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:55,760 back to my mom and I'm like, my mom reacted a little strange to 118 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:57,920 that. So I called her back and I just 119 00:06:57,920 --> 00:06:59,120 said, hey, mom, like, what are we? 120 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:01,880 What are you going to do here? I think we need to reach out to 121 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:03,840 this girl. I think she she would probably 122 00:07:03,840 --> 00:07:07,080 like some answers and would like to talk to us. 123 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:10,600 And she said, Patrick, there's a story there, but we'll wait 124 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:13,800 till, you know, we're together over a bottle of wine. 125 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:19,880 And I, you know, obviously was not wanting to wait after a 126 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:22,800 statement like that. So I, I just kind of said, hey, 127 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:25,240 like, what's going on? Like, tell me, tell me what's 128 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:32,560 happening. And she, she told me that, you 129 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:38,000 know, that Christy and I likely did share the same father, but 130 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:39,880 it wasn't the father that I thought. 131 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:50,080 Wow, so that's a lot to process. You went from maybe thinking 132 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:55,360 something about your dad to now getting this new information. 133 00:07:56,160 --> 00:08:02,720 How are you feeling? I remember I don't remember 134 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:08,240 falling down, but I remember ending up on the floor 135 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:13,880 literally. And my, my world just went 136 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:17,160 really dark. It was quite surreal. 137 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:21,480 I mean, I, I don't remember any part of the conversation after 138 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:23,800 that. I just remember sitting on the 139 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:28,800 kitchen floor crying like I am now. 140 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:32,760 And my wife had just actually walked in the house at that 141 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:34,640 point, and that's how she found me. 142 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,320 So she was, you know, obviously quite concerned. 143 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:40,960 I had really no idea, you know, who I was talking to her, what 144 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:42,880 was happening from that phone call. 145 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:49,400 I literally went down the hall to my bedroom and I laid in bed 146 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,600 and I don't think I got out of bed until Monday. 147 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:56,120 I literally wouldn't leave the bedroom. 148 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:59,320 It was, it was just a crazy time. 149 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:02,760 The biggest thing for me about it was the fact that I didn't 150 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:08,640 have a, A great relationship with my dad when he was a good 151 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:11,600 dad. Like, like, you know, he went 152 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:15,680 from a bit of a, you know, not not a great dad to a fantastic 153 00:09:15,680 --> 00:09:17,720 dad When, when I learned the whole story. 154 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:22,040 Like, so he knew he knew all about this and, and raised me as 155 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:26,000 his own regardless. But as you can imagine, in a 156 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:30,240 situation like that, like it's not that father son bond is not 157 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:32,440 going to be the same. And I think I struggled with 158 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:35,400 that my entire life. So I've spent my parents ended 159 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:42,240 up getting divorced when I was 11 and I ended up having just, 160 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,320 you know, this very strained relationship with my dad. 161 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:48,000 I always had this sense that I didn't belong. 162 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:51,440 I always had this sense that he wasn't proud of me. 163 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:53,800 I never, never thought he didn't love me. 164 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:57,280 It wasn't that. It was just I, I saw the way my 165 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:01,800 friends interacted with their dads and I saw dads on TV 166 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,480 interacting with their TV children. 167 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:06,800 And it just, it wasn't what I had. 168 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:10,520 And I struggled with that a lot of my life. 169 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:13,800 And my dad and I went through periods where we didn't see much 170 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:17,040 of each other. So when he left when I was 11, 171 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:20,840 my sisters are a couple of years older than me, we saw him every 172 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:24,400 Sunday night for dinner and we did the odd sleepover, but, you 173 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:26,640 know, maybe once or twice a year kind of thing. 174 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:31,160 It wasn't wasn't much. So I was really raised by my mom 175 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:36,160 and my two sisters, and my mom remarried shortly after, as did 176 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:39,560 my dad. And I just kind of was one of 177 00:10:39,560 --> 00:10:42,720 those things where I loved my dad and I and I always knew he 178 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:44,720 loved me, but it was just always, there was always just 179 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:47,240 something there that I really couldn't put my finger on. 180 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:52,360 Did you ever wonder if he was your father or was it not so far 181 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:56,720 as that just you didn't have the relationship that maybe you 182 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:00,480 hoped for? I definitely did not wonder if 183 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:02,720 he was my father. I think that's why it hit me 184 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:05,760 like a ton of bricks. There was like just no reason 185 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:09,520 for me to believe anything else. Going back is one of the things. 186 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:13,520 From that phone call and sitting on the kitchen floor to laying 187 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:16,480 in bed all weekend. I literally replayed every 188 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:18,920 moment of my life. It was wild. 189 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:21,120 I mean, like all of these memories are flooding back. 190 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:25,720 And there's during that process for sure, some things came to 191 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:29,600 mind where I thought, oh boy, yeah, that's that's interesting. 192 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,360 You know, that's interesting that my uncle said that. 193 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:35,200 I remember him saying that and me thinking that was weird, but 194 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:37,440 not really learning anything else about it. 195 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:39,560 Or I remember my grandmother, which would have been my dad's 196 00:11:39,560 --> 00:11:45,240 mom, making a comment once that seemed fairly innocuous until I 197 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:47,000 had some context. And then all of a sudden it's 198 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:49,320 like, oh, my goodness, that's what she meant. 199 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:51,720 So there was a lot of that. But certainly. 200 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:53,120 Yeah, no doubt. No doubt. 201 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:55,120 He was. He was my father. 202 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:57,080 I even looked like him. I would look at pictures and I 203 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:00,240 would think we look alike. I mean, we're both English, so I 204 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:03,240 guess that's we end up kind of looking the same for that 205 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:05,440 reason. It absolutely floored me. 206 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:11,880 And, you know, basically began a period of my life that I would 207 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:18,360 say has been the most important and impactful and growth period 208 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:21,400 in, in my life. And it's so it's all been 209 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:23,920 amazing. Bittersweet for sure. 210 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:28,880 It's been a process. So from that moment of finding 211 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:35,000 out about my dad and now meeting my new sister, the search now 212 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:38,640 focused on, OK, who's my real dad? 213 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:42,280 Because I actually now, I'm now I'm in the same boat as this gal 214 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:46,280 from Winnipeg and I would like to know who my father is. 215 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:50,560 My mom was not a ton of help. My mom gave me a first name and 216 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:53,280 a little bit of information to go on. 217 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:57,800 Christie's mother had no information in fact, and 218 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:00,080 disagreed that that was the first name. 219 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:06,760 So we were now kind of like, but my mom was 100% like, go like 220 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:09,320 take it to the bank. That's his first name. 221 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:10,880 And she didn't know his last name. 222 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:14,720 She just knew that name. So the search began and it, it 223 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:18,040 basically consumed my life. Like I was, you know, probably 224 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:23,800 12 hours a day working on it, thinking about it online all the 225 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:27,760 time, looking up every single lead I could find, looking in 226 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:31,400 databases. I went on all of the other DNA 227 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:35,240 services that were available to try and match some DNA there. 228 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:40,240 I probably sent out 1000 emails to people. 229 00:13:40,680 --> 00:13:44,280 Anyone that kind of had a match of, you know, 1% or higher got a 230 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:48,600 note from me and there was a cut and paste note that I, you know, 231 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:52,760 would say, hey, I'm, you know, born in 1968 and this is the 232 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:55,240 area I was born in. And I'm, I'm looking for a, a 233 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:58,640 man, I believe he's, his name is George and he's probably in his 234 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:00,680 early 80s and yadda, yadda, yadda. 235 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:03,400 And I would just cut and paste and send and send and send. 236 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,080 I think it had to have been about 1000 emails that I sent. 237 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:09,720 And I got precisely 0 emails back from anybody. 238 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:12,200 I'm, I'm not even sure that they made it to them. 239 00:14:12,680 --> 00:14:15,120 It was out, you know, approaching, you know, kind of 240 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:20,360 two or three months later and I was starting to lose hope. 241 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:22,280 I was thinking I'm just not going to find out. 242 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:25,120 At this point. I assumed he was dead anyway, so 243 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:29,760 there was nothing about me that wanted to find this person and 244 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:31,720 meet him and have any sort of relationship. 245 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:35,720 I, I was not even down for that. Like it was just, I just wanted 246 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:38,480 to know who he was. And I'm a bit of a health nut 247 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:40,640 and I like to know that sort of thing. 248 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:42,800 So I would have liked to know, Hey, is there anything I should 249 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,520 be looking out for? And incidentally, I should 250 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:48,080 mention one of the one of the things with my father is he had 251 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:51,200 died the year before this came out and he had died of colon 252 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:55,960 cancer and his brother had died of prostate cancer very young. 253 00:14:56,280 --> 00:15:01,160 So I've been living with this kind of fear of colon cancer and 254 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:05,480 prostate cancer, and as such would get a lot of testing, a 255 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:09,040 lot of intrusive testing because I was really quite worried about 256 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:11,320 this. And so that that also became 257 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:14,920 kind of an issue, You know, where I was, I remember saying 258 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:17,840 to my mom once, like, you know, like you could have, you could 259 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:20,400 have stopped that, like you could have put my mind at ease. 260 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:23,440 And I understand why she didn't. But it was just like, there's, 261 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,280 you know, I'd be lying if I said there's, there's never been 262 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:28,360 anger. There certainly isn't anger now 263 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:31,000 at all. And there I wouldn't say anger 264 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:34,840 ever LED the theme, but it was there was little bits of it 265 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:36,240 would surface every now and then I'm. 266 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:40,320 Curious, you said that you were not particularly interested in a 267 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:43,200 relationship with this person, that you're trying to find your 268 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:46,240 your biological father. Why was that? 269 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:48,600 Was it just you just wanted the information? 270 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:52,040 Did did you feel like even though your relationship with 271 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:54,400 your dad wasn't the best, he was your dad? 272 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:56,560 Or what were your feelings there? 273 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:03,200 Yeah, yeah, To me, my dad was my dad and I think it was most it 274 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:06,920 wasn't that I wasn't open to anything, but it was certainly 275 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:08,720 did I I wasn't leading with that. 276 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,480 Like it wasn't any any. I wasn't searching for anything. 277 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:13,000 I was more curious than anything. 278 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:16,640 I would, I would just there's a man out there who's my father 279 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:19,040 and who is he? What does he do? 280 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:21,320 What did he do with his life? How did he move through life? 281 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:22,920 Where is he from? Where did he live? 282 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:25,000 Who did he marry? What did he do for work? 283 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:28,240 You know, all of those just things that would be like just 284 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,800 did your. Mom share a little bit more 285 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:36,760 about the circumstances that she met this person and how your dad 286 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:44,280 came to raise you. My mom was married with with two 287 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:49,520 daughters and and just moved from England to Canada with my 288 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:53,000 two sisters who were born in England and my dad. 289 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:58,560 And they I guess at that point what happened happened and she 290 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,840 got pregnant with me. My dad was still in the picture 291 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:05,880 and continued to be in the picture and knew but decided to, 292 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:09,480 you know, to stick around. And they made that work for 11 293 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:12,560 more years kind of thing. And then it it the marriage 294 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:16,520 finally dissolved. So yeah, this is this is where 295 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:18,200 the story kind of gets interesting. 296 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:22,640 It was May and I remember it was Masters weekend and Masters is 297 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:25,440 typically in April, but it had been moved that year due to 298 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:28,720 COVID. I was doing what I would usually 299 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:32,640 do on a Sunday, which is not a lot and watching golf on TV and 300 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:38,360 all of a sudden I got a Ding on my phone and it was a new 301 00:17:38,360 --> 00:17:43,400 connection from 23andMe and I thought, oh, that's a can of 302 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:45,920 worms. Last time that happened, my life 303 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:49,080 got turned upside down. I opened up the e-mail and same 304 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:51,320 same thing as before. I had to had to kind of click 305 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:56,760 through 23andMe and it was this kid that he was 25 years old and 306 00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:02,360 he lived about 30 minutes from me and we shared, I want to say 307 00:18:02,360 --> 00:18:05,800 8 or 9% DNA. So it was, it was huge. 308 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:09,960 Like I'd never, there was nobody that that came close to that 309 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:13,600 kind of amount of DNA other than my half sister. 310 00:18:14,120 --> 00:18:17,120 So I immediately reached out to him. 311 00:18:17,120 --> 00:18:19,000 I sent him an e-mail. He hadn't emailed me. 312 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:22,040 He had just connected like a friend request or something, 313 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:24,760 which I thought was a little odd, but he, I immediately 314 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:27,000 connected with him and he responded right away. 315 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:30,440 And I, I just said, hey, like, you know, same spiel. 316 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:32,680 Born in 68. I'm looking for this guy George. 317 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:34,840 And he responded right back. And he's like, hey, yeah. 318 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:39,800 Like my mom just reconnected with her biological dad about 10 319 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:42,920 years ago. And, and his name's George and 320 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:46,720 I'm like, Oh my God, like your, your mom's my half sister. 321 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:48,600 And I'm like, this is, this is incredible. 322 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:52,240 And, and I said, Hey, you know, here's, here's my phone number. 323 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:54,920 Would you mind, would you mind sharing this with your mom? 324 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:57,000 I would really, really love to connect with her. 325 00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:59,520 She can call me anytime. I just kind of hung back on 326 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:01,000 that. And I was like, wow, this is, 327 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:03,600 you know, all of a sudden now I'm getting somewhere because 328 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:07,400 she knows George. I know that she knows who he is. 329 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:12,160 So now I'm, I'm very close to to finding this person as I'm 330 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:16,360 waiting for his mom, Lori, to call me back. 331 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:20,120 I messaged him one more time because I didn't even think to 332 00:19:20,120 --> 00:19:24,000 ask is George alive still? And his response was, yeah, 333 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:28,360 George is, is alive and, and he lives in LA and here's his 334 00:19:28,360 --> 00:19:30,960 Facebook profile. And I was like, oh, wow. 335 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:33,720 OK. I clicked through on his 336 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:35,800 Facebook profile. And I wasn't a big Facebook 337 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:39,480 person at that time, so I didn't really know how to navigate the 338 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:41,640 system. But I, I figured out how to send 339 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:43,800 him a message. So I decided to send him a 340 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:46,520 message and I started writing kind of a longer heartfelt 341 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:48,240 message. I think you, you know, you could 342 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:50,440 be my father. And, you know, I would love to 343 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:52,920 connect and learn a little bit more. 344 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:56,680 And, you know, and I was also said, if this message doesn't 345 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,240 land well for whatever reason, no problem. 346 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,280 I don't need anything. I'm just thought you'd want to 347 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:06,360 know I'm here and maybe connect. And then I got off Facebook and 348 00:20:06,360 --> 00:20:09,600 started working the phones and calling friends and people and 349 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:11,520 tell them like, Hey, I think I found my dad. 350 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:15,080 It was interesting because I went back and forth on Facebook 351 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:16,960 trying to like see if I could find more information. 352 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:19,760 And then all of a sudden I I found this little button that 353 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:22,720 said photos. And I was like, oh, and I 354 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:26,920 clicked on it and I almost fell off my chair 'cause it was 355 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:33,920 literally me looking back at me. And he even had pictures on his 356 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:39,480 Facebook profile that were publicly available of him when 357 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:42,720 he was the age I was at looking at these pictures. 358 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:45,040 So it was literally like looking at me. 359 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:49,520 It was to the point where he had that, like, dark kind of shaggy 360 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:52,040 hair. I don't know why his hair looked 361 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:55,040 like that, but I sent a screenshot of it to one of my 362 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:57,880 good friends. And his reply was, why? 363 00:20:57,920 --> 00:20:59,960 Why are you sending me a picture of you in a wig? 364 00:20:59,960 --> 00:21:05,120 And I was like, it's it's not me, it's my dad. 365 00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:07,520 And yeah, so it was, that was pretty wild. 366 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:13,120 So I did hear back from Lori within a couple of hours. 367 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:21,080 And by, I think 8:00 that night, I was on a FaceTime call with, 368 00:21:22,120 --> 00:21:28,640 geez, I want to say eight people, including him, his wife. 369 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:34,480 I think both There's there. So it turns out there's 8 kids 370 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:40,240 of George and from 5 different moms, I believe we were all, 371 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:41,960 there might have been 1 missing from that call. 372 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:46,000 But we, yeah, by Sunday night of, of the day, I, I found them, 373 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,160 we were all on this call for and literally from all over the 374 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:55,800 country, you know, you know, Winnipeg, Calgary, Vancouver, LA 375 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,840 and then a couple in Ontario. And it was, it was surreal. 376 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:05,680 So we, I think that call would have lasted definitely hours. 377 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:08,920 We were on the phone, people were dropping off the call. 378 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:13,440 And then I think at the end it was just me, Christy, because 379 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:15,760 because he had just found out about both of us at the same 380 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:18,160 time, obviously, and he had no idea about either of us. 381 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,800 So it wasn't like he knew we existed and he's just been kind 382 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,000 of ignoring it. He had no clue, you know, it was 383 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,200 back at that. That was the time there were no 384 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:28,160 cell phones or e-mail or anything. 385 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:31,840 And he was, turns out, a musician and just kind of 386 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:36,760 traveling across Canada playing music and making babies. 387 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:40,200 So yeah, it was, it was, it was pretty wild. 388 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:42,680 Yeah. What was his reaction? 389 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,320 Was he excited? How was your conversation with 390 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,040 him? I don't think he could have been 391 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:52,640 more excited. The craziest thing to me and, 392 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:57,080 and the most heartwarming thing is his wife was maybe more 393 00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,240 excited. They've been married for 40 394 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,080 years. After he's kind of gone through 395 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:05,720 Canada, he made his way down to the US and he built a really 396 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:08,280 great life for himself. And he he married a wonderful 397 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,160 woman and they had two kids. The youngest would have been 398 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:13,400 like 35 and the oldest would have been 62. 399 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,800 So it's a, a pretty big gap. And then there's this missing 400 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:20,560 period in between all of our ages that we all kind of scratch 401 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,080 our heads every now and then and say, I wonder if there's 402 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:25,720 somebody else. But we think we think they would 403 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,960 have surfaced by now. So we had that Zoom call and 404 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:34,400 then we ended up just my sister and him and his wife on the 405 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,360 phone and another hour to just us. 406 00:23:37,360 --> 00:23:40,000 And it was literally him just telling stories and we were all 407 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,680 ears. He's a pretty interesting guy 408 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:46,760 and he's got a lot of crazy stories and really, really likes 409 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:48,440 to tell him. So that was kind of fun. 410 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,680 After that there was a few conversations and then we had 411 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:55,560 planned to all get together and at least the Canadian siblings 412 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,120 did. So there there was definitely a 413 00:23:58,120 --> 00:24:03,800 bit of a standoffish vibe from the two brothers in in 414 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:07,720 California at first at that that, you know, kind of went 415 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:09,360 away. But at first that there, you 416 00:24:09,360 --> 00:24:12,960 know, so that the older siblings, the ones that were in 417 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:17,400 Canada, we all kind of had more in common because we all really 418 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,040 didn't have George in our life. And they did. 419 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:26,600 But yeah, Fast forward to Labor Day weekend, the entire Canadian 420 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:31,320 group of us, which is 6 and spouses all you know, spent I 421 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,960 think 3 or 4 days together at my house. 422 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:38,080 So they all kind of came to Ontario or, or if they were in 423 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:43,880 Ontario came over and, and we just had this crazy weekend 424 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:46,880 together. It was absolutely magical. 425 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:52,440 I still remember like so many like details and conversations 426 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,320 and the laughs and just the, it was just amazing. 427 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:59,480 I would say that that you put these six people in a room that 428 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:04,240 have this magical connection, but no 0 baggage from the past 429 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:05,520 there. A couple of them did know each 430 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:07,960 other, but you know, for the most part, like we're all just 431 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,960 kind of getting to know each other, but we all look the same. 432 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:14,280 We all laugh the same, We all think the same. 433 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,200 We're all very different people for sure. 434 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:20,480 We were all very different paths in life, but there was just this 435 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,360 amazing connection and then we've, you know, since been on a 436 00:25:23,360 --> 00:25:26,480 few other trips. So we ended up doing the same 437 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,840 thing in Winnipeg at my sister's place. 438 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,720 And then we've done a trip to Palm Springs where my brothers, 439 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:37,480 my California brothers joined and my dad and I think three or 440 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:39,000 four of us went down from Canada. 441 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,720 So yeah, it's been great. I'm in California at least once 442 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,560 a year for work. So I, I made a point, you know, 443 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,480 early on that I, I would hang with him, but the first time I 444 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:55,920 met him was, was February of 22. So we hadn't connected live yet 445 00:25:55,920 --> 00:26:00,320 and my sister Christy and I decided that we wanted to travel 446 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:01,840 down to meet him. So we did. 447 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:04,960 We spent I think 3 days. That was pretty crazy. 448 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:07,800 There was a snowstorm in Winnipeg so she was actually a 449 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:11,960 day late and I was kind of struggling there as I was like, 450 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:16,040 you know, I really wanted to meet him together but I can't 451 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,120 sit here for 20. I can't wait. 452 00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:20,520 Like I, we have a plan. He's coming over like, I'm not 453 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:22,880 going to change it. And she was like, totally cool 454 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:24,880 with that. And I remember sitting outside 455 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,400 the hotel I was staying at in Santa Monica at this little 456 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,640 courtyard. And there's this big tall hedge. 457 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,440 And I was just sitting out out on a table in the courtyard, 458 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,760 just kind of watching this little opening in the hedge 459 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,760 where he would enter. And I actually recorded and I 460 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:41,440 had my phone just on like standing on the table, leaning 461 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,600 up against a, a glass just 'cause I just, I don't know, I 462 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,800 wanted to have it on, on video. But yeah, it was a very special. 463 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,200 Moment. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 464 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,280 It was, it was pretty wild when he he walked around that corner 465 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:55,320 when I met my sister Christy for the first time. 466 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,240 So she came for that Labor Day weekend. 467 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,760 She came a few days early and we went to a baseball game. 468 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,440 And that was, that was pretty emotional too, 'cause it was 469 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:08,000 like we talked on the phone and see each other, but then to all 470 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,280 of a sudden lay eyes on her, like, and we were in a crowd. 471 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:14,040 We met like actually, you know, outside of the baseball stadium 472 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,600 and to actually lay eyes on her and just like embrace her, it 473 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:21,600 was like it was pretty special. And it was the same with my dad 474 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,560 when he, when my dad came, came around the corner and we just 475 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:30,280 hugged each other and, you know, didn't, didn't stop for a while. 476 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:33,040 You know, it was really cool. Yeah, I mean, it sounds like you 477 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:38,440 have a really healthy attitude about this experience. 478 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:43,240 Did you ever have or did you find out from your brothers who 479 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:47,720 were raised by George what kind of a dad he was? 480 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:52,600 And did you ever have these moments of what if George had 481 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,280 been in my life? Did you ever have those what if 482 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:59,280 thoughts? No, no, I didn't for a couple of 483 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:01,840 reasons. What like George and with all 484 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,600 respect and love, like I I'm I think I dodged a bullet. 485 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,760 Not sure. Yeah, because at that time 486 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:13,080 anyway, in his life, like he was not like, So he before he had 487 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:20,520 me, he had two sisters and a brother and they, he had them 488 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:25,920 very, very young. And his wife and him split up, I 489 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:31,280 think when the kids were all, you know, toddlers and the kids 490 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:33,880 at that time. It sounds crazy now, but that's 491 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,160 kind of the way it went back then is the kids all went into 492 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,040 foster care basically. So they all they those three 493 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:43,280 kids got split up and so they didn't really have much much 494 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,320 experience with George. They're they do have some 495 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:47,720 memories for sure. And I think he did, you know, 496 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,200 kind of pop in and out of their lives every now and then. 497 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,160 But I don't think he was overly involved. 498 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:58,080 And I'd say out of all of us, like those three and for good 499 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:02,880 reason, have the toughest time, you know, kind of relating to 500 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,560 George at this point when there's they all have very 501 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,840 different relationships. It's funny, we all eight of us 502 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,000 had very different relationships with him. 503 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,120 I try and appreciate everybody's point of view. 504 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:15,920 Chrissy and I have no skin in the game. 505 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,560 We're just, we just met this guy for the first time. 506 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:20,960 He didn't know about us. So, you know, we've got 507 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,720 absolutely nothing against them. But sometimes that that's 508 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:27,640 created, you know, a little bit of, of tension in the group. 509 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,200 I think every, like I said, everyone's got their own kind of 510 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,440 experience and relationship. But yeah, no, I've never, I 511 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:35,400 never wondered what life would be like. 512 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:39,680 I think I had, you know, I had AI had a really great childhood. 513 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:43,680 I'd, I'd say when I think about my life up until 11, I think 514 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:47,720 things definitely got turned upside down when I was 11 when 515 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,080 my dad left. But up until then, I, I, I was 516 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,960 very happy, very happy kid. You mentioned that your mom 517 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:58,920 doesn't want to talk about George or or anything around 518 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:00,320 that. Does she know that you've 519 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,160 connected with him? What does she think of you 520 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:09,400 having a relationship with him? Yeah, so my mom is the saddest 521 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,040 part of the story. When it all came out, you know, 522 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:15,840 my mom was felt understandably a lot of shame. 523 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:21,360 We tried our best to make her comfortable. 524 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,280 I remember, you know, that weekend that I laid in bed all 525 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:26,840 weekend. I asked my wife, can you please 526 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,640 send send my mom some flowers. Just send her some flowers. 527 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:33,120 Tell her I love her and like just, you know, but I had no 528 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:37,360 capacity to, to talk to her or to do anything, but I just 529 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:41,400 needed her to know this is fine. And we tried our best to make 530 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:45,600 her feel that. But unfortunately she just 531 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:50,080 decided to kind of pull back. And so she, we don't really see 532 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,880 much of her anymore, sadly. We invite her to Christmas. 533 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,120 I think I'm not even sure if we did. 534 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:57,760 This might be the first year we didn't. 535 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:01,760 I, I basically said to my wife like I, I can't, I, I feel like 536 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,800 I'm exposing myself just to be let down every time I invite her 537 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:07,520 somewhere 'cause I know the answer's no. 538 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:11,680 So I said, let's just stop this, you know, foolishness. 539 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:16,880 So she knows I'm, I'm here and if she wants to reconnect, we 540 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:18,680 would. But there's really not much of a 541 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:22,720 relationship outside of Merry Christmas, happy birthday and 542 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:26,960 that's about it. Was that a sharp turn from 543 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:34,920 before you made this discovery? I, I mean, yes and no. 544 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,400 It definitely got turned upside down, but it wasn't like I had 545 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,320 one of those relationships where we're seeing each other every 546 00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,280 week and talking on the phone every day like our relationship 547 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:46,560 was. And it's typical I find with 548 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,280 most of my friends, especially from England. 549 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,280 And, and there's something about England, it's not even Europe, 550 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:56,160 it's England. They're just the relationships 551 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:58,680 with parents are a little, a little different sometimes. 552 00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:02,880 So I'd say we were, you know, we were as close as I needed to be. 553 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,640 And I think, you know, we were as close as she needed to be. 554 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:08,760 We spent all our holidays together and we did lots of 555 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:10,320 things. But yeah, I don't want it this 556 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:12,120 way. I would rather her be part of 557 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:14,680 our lives. I've two children and and two 558 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:18,720 stepchildren and I I would rather that she be part of that, 559 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,280 but she's chosen not to. And I understand, you know, I 560 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:24,920 think she in her mind, she thought she would go to her 561 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:29,520 grave with this secret. And you know, it came out before 562 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,480 that, obviously. And it it didn't sit well. 563 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:36,560 I remember when she told me she prefaced everything by I'm going 564 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,440 to tell you this once and I never want to talk about it 565 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:41,600 again. And I don't want you telling 566 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:44,000 people. Then I said, well, that's 567 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:48,120 absolutely not gonna happen. I said there's no, I, I'm not 568 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:50,240 not telling people like this is my life. 569 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,400 You know, I think she was, she was just embarrassed and 570 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,360 ashamed. And it just easier to avoid the 571 00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:59,400 situation than than be around. I'm so shocked to hear you say 572 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:04,040 that you sent flowers to your mom the weekend that you found 573 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,160 out. I think that is an absolute 574 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:09,440 first that I've ever heard on this podcast. 575 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:14,240 And you know, listeners know that that my take on things is 576 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:18,720 definitely 1 of empathy and and compassion for a lot of the 577 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:23,160 mothers in our in our situation. So I, I'm really curious, like 578 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:28,160 in the midst of not being able to get out of bed, dealing with 579 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:34,440 this massive shift in your reality and your foundation, why 580 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:38,440 was it so important to you to make sure that your mom knew 581 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,600 that you loved her and cared about her and if you wanted to 582 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:47,120 reach out? Well, I would, I, I mean, quite 583 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:50,920 simply, I was raised that way, you know, So I think my mom had 584 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,320 everything to do with that. I'm an empathetic person for 585 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:56,840 sure. And I do deeply, deeply care 586 00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:00,160 about about people. I love people in my life. 587 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:04,560 Like I said before, there was no there was there little bits of 588 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:08,600 anger have popped up, but very, very, very little like that and 589 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:13,120 and way overshadowed by just like like everything's fine mom, 590 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:16,400 like nobody, nobody cares. We tried to convince her of that 591 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:18,440 so many times. I think she was just embarrassed 592 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:20,480 to come around. You know, my in laws who you 593 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,320 know, are here, You know, we have a pretty big family that's 594 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,679 that gathers for pretty much any reason we can think to gather. 595 00:34:26,679 --> 00:34:29,040 My mom would have been part of a lot of that and I just think she 596 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,920 didn't want to be around. I know, you know, we grew up in 597 00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,960 the church and a lot of her friends from the church she's 598 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:39,080 kind of distance herself from because she knows they know 599 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,719 because we're all on Facebook. And I would post every time I 600 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:46,159 was with my siblings or with my dad, there was a post that went 601 00:34:46,159 --> 00:34:48,199 along with it. When I look back, I think, you 602 00:34:48,199 --> 00:34:51,120 know, could I have done anything differently yet? 603 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:53,480 I don't think so. I don't think I would. 604 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:56,719 Even the posting and stuff, to me, it was this was my life. 605 00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,240 I really wanted to share my story. 606 00:34:59,240 --> 00:35:02,840 I wanted people to know. I wanted everyone to know. 607 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:07,360 And I remember talking to my stepmother, the wife of of my 608 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:12,160 dad and like the first call she got was from my dad's other 609 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:13,120 brother. He had two brothers. 610 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,080 One died that invention of prostate cancer. 611 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,160 The other one is alive and well, living in England and called her 612 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,680 up right away. And like, I just saw this crazy 613 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,000 post on Facebook what's happening? 614 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,520 And she's like, Oh yeah, it's. They really. 615 00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:27,440 Kept it secret. They kept it secret. 616 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:29,640 They kept it. Yeah, yeah, totally. 617 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,400 Wow. What about your sisters? 618 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,800 Your raised sisters that you grew up with? 619 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,960 What do they think of all this? That's a great question. 620 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:44,160 So I think my two sisters, I was and am very close with one one I 621 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,680 am I'm just not very close with at all. 622 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:51,480 So our relationship that we don't really have one, but we 623 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,360 really didn't have much of 1 before. 624 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,160 Like we would see each other, you know, because we got 625 00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:59,280 together with my mom and stuff, I'd see her, but now that's not 626 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:00,680 happening. I don't see her either. 627 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,960 And no, no drama, no event that happened. 628 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:07,000 It was just we just had a don't don't have a ton in common and 629 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:10,920 and never really stayed tight. My other sister, who I'm very, 630 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,640 very close with, it was hard for her for sure. 631 00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:17,040 I included her in everything. So even that Labor Day weekend, 632 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,840 she came, she didn't stay the whole weekend, but she was 633 00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,440 included in it. But I think she had a hard time. 634 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:26,480 I think, and I understand, like I, I think she was a little bit 635 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:30,760 in the middle of my mom and me. And, you know, although there 636 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,520 shouldn't have been tension there, there's, I think there, 637 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:35,520 there was tension that was kind of building. 638 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:39,000 And I don't know why, but I think my sister felt, you know, 639 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:42,120 kind of protective over my mom. And that was fine. 640 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,480 And then I, I think she thought that, you know, maybe I was, you 641 00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:50,360 know, getting a little too, too cozy with this new family. 642 00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,680 And but it was for me, it was, you know, it was interesting. 643 00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:55,080 We were all just getting to know each other. 644 00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:56,920 So, yeah, we, we saw a lot of each other. 645 00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:00,640 We talked a lot to each other. And I think that that definitely 646 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:04,000 rubbed my sister the wrong way. There was no, no issue. 647 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,760 But I think we needed to come back together and we did. 648 00:37:07,240 --> 00:37:09,760 And and we're as close as ever now. 649 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:13,120 And incidentally, all of the relationships with all of the 650 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:15,480 people involved have kind of level set now. 651 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:20,520 So it's almost normalized. I think I, I got what I needed 652 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,600 out of everything. I got all of the answers I 653 00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,720 needed. I went on a whole self healing 654 00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:30,120 pursuit. You know, it was amazing for me. 655 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:33,760 And you know, a lot of regret for me is that I didn't get to 656 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:36,960 to talk to my dad after this came out. 657 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,080 There's a lot of things I would have said to him, you know? 658 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:43,120 Yeah, I bet it give you gave you such a new perspective and 659 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:46,760 appreciation for him or appreciation for his point of 660 00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:48,400 view and where he was coming from. 661 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:50,240 Yeah. Absolutely. 662 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,440 Yeah, absolutely. No, he's he, he became a hero. 663 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,840 I went from not really thinking about him a whole lot to now I 664 00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,520 think about him probably more than I ever have. 665 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:00,720 And. And in a good way. 666 00:38:00,720 --> 00:38:03,680 Like I would just always think happy thoughts and memories. 667 00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:06,840 And, you know, I have pictures of him on, you know, my digital 668 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:09,480 picture frame. And he's my dad to me, you know? 669 00:38:09,720 --> 00:38:13,600 At the beginning you said that this period of time since you 670 00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:18,320 made your discovery has been some of the most profound kind 671 00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:22,840 of period of time of your life. And you just touched on kind of 672 00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,840 a, a healing journey. What what have been the most 673 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:29,600 helpful things in helping you process this and integrate it 674 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:34,880 and accept it? I think for me it was just 675 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,080 understanding like that, that there is some, there was 676 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,000 something. So then it was like, OK, well 677 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:44,320 now, now I know what it is. Now I can put a label on it. 678 00:38:44,720 --> 00:38:48,080 Now I can go and get the help I need to kind of get through the 679 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:49,960 other stuff. So I didn't, I didn't need 680 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:53,520 therapy to get through the situation. 681 00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:57,080 This situation was fine. I was OK to get through it. 682 00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:01,800 What it did is it just kind of opened, you know, a whole can of 683 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:04,760 worms were, like I said, I, you know, I replayed my entire life 684 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:07,320 and all of these things started falling into place and all these 685 00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:12,440 patterns that I have and the way I feel were just part of me, but 686 00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:14,560 they weren't part of me. They were because of these 687 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:18,200 things that had happened or, or that I had perceived. 688 00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:22,000 So that was probably the greatest thing I did and the 689 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:25,680 greatest gift I gave to myself was going to a, a, a place 690 00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:27,640 called Hoffman. I'm not sure if you're familiar, 691 00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:32,320 but Hoffman is, it's a retreat and it's, it's you go for seven 692 00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:37,280 days and it's a total like unplug and you know, 15-16 hours 693 00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:40,240 a day of just group work, not therapy. 694 00:39:40,240 --> 00:39:43,120 You never, you don't talk about your issues because the whole 695 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:45,960 thing with Hoffman is we all have childhood trauma and 696 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,720 Hoffman is about addressing childhood trauma. 697 00:39:48,720 --> 00:39:51,000 They don't care what it is. The stories are all different. 698 00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:52,760 The results are exactly the same. 699 00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:54,480 That really changed a lot for me. 700 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:57,320 And then just, you know, just getting comfortable in my own 701 00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:00,680 skin. Like when you go from feeling 702 00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:04,480 like you don't belong to understanding why you felt you 703 00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,720 didn't belong. It's, it's amazing. 704 00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:10,560 It just unlocked kind of everything for me. 705 00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:13,640 And it was like, well, I don't feel this way because I 706 00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:16,960 shouldn't belong or I'm not good enough or I'm all these things 707 00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:19,560 that have fed my mind for all these years. 708 00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:23,240 I don't, I feel I don't belong because I actually didn't 709 00:40:23,240 --> 00:40:27,040 belong, you know? You know, it was real and it 710 00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:29,640 wasn't. It was subtle, I'm sure. 711 00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:30,960 And like I said, I don't remember. 712 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:34,680 Like nobody ever told me and nobody ever made me feel that 713 00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:35,880 way. But there was, there would have 714 00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:40,200 been something and that over the years just kind of programmed me 715 00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:42,160 to feel that way, that I just wasn't good enough. 716 00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:45,760 I remember when I started my business and, and I was never 717 00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:49,800 meant to be successful. I think most people that knew me 718 00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,960 when I was 15 years old, including my my own parents 719 00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,600 would have thought that I wasn't really going to amount to 720 00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:59,080 anything. And then I kind of did. 721 00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:03,200 And, you know, through through that, I think, you know, I used 722 00:41:03,240 --> 00:41:06,480 to always think about my dad and like, he never would really ask 723 00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:09,960 me too much about my business and we never came to visit my 724 00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:12,040 office. And, you know, just, you know, 725 00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,280 it was just weird to me. It was just like, man, if my 726 00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:17,600 kid, especially a kid I didn't think was going to actually 727 00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:21,680 achieve anything, did what I did, I would be over the moon. 728 00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:24,440 I would be like, how can I help? Or, you know, roll up my sleeve, 729 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:26,000 Let's go. Like, what can I do to be 730 00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,200 evolved? But he would just had zero 731 00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:31,160 interest in it. And you know, that also makes 732 00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:34,000 sense to me, you know, like he wouldn't have felt that same 733 00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:36,880 level of pride because I'm not his son. 734 00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:40,560 So it's just, I get it. And and it's not, that's not 735 00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:42,960 meant in any disparaging way against him. 736 00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:46,040 He loved me. I I know he did, but I wasn't 737 00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:48,000 his son. So that would have informed kind 738 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:51,640 of everything that that happened in their relationship. 739 00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:55,560 Well, and I mean, obviously we don't know what he what exactly 740 00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:58,080 what he was feeling or thinking, but I imagine still there's 741 00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:02,640 probably a lot of hurt and things that were tied into that 742 00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:05,520 time in his life. And you know, even though he 743 00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:08,920 made a decision to move forward, you know, we, we don't know how 744 00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:14,000 he how he felt. One of the great things about, 745 00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:17,320 you know, putting all the pieces together was the music. 746 00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,440 I never really thought about it that much, but in hindsight, I 747 00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:24,320 was like, yeah, why am I the only musical one in the family? 748 00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:27,640 Why am I the only one interested in music and, and playing music 749 00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:30,360 and no one else really is? And then, you know, it turns out 750 00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:35,160 my dad, you know, basically made his living playing music. 751 00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:37,200 So that was, that was pretty cool. 752 00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:39,360 And and, you know, just kind of piercing that stuff together. 753 00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:43,440 I remember the first time my dad and I connected in California, 754 00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:46,880 and when he came over to that hotel, he'd brought a couple of 755 00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:49,280 guitars with him. And, and you know, I've got this 756 00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:52,680 video of him and I just kind of jamming away on these acoustic 757 00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:55,000 guitars. And it was, it was magical. 758 00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:56,920 Like it was really, really special. 759 00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:01,000 That's amazing. And Yep, this is an audio based 760 00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:04,040 podcast, but I'm I'm looking at Patrick and he's got guitars on 761 00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:07,680 the wall behind him. He's got this whole jam room. 762 00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:10,840 And so, yeah, I definitely had the thought as well. 763 00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:13,600 That kind of makes sense that George was the. 764 00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:14,920 Musician. And so are you. 765 00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:19,440 Yeah, one of the things about being a musician is you would 766 00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:21,560 like to write songs and write music. 767 00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:25,240 And I've really tried my entire life to write a song and I've 768 00:43:25,240 --> 00:43:28,000 just never been able to. I've read books on it. 769 00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:32,000 I've tried countless times to pull together meaningful song 770 00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:35,000 and just couldn't do it. And then throughout all this 771 00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:39,680 situation, probably the best gift I got might have been this 772 00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:43,640 is that I I got out of bed 1 morning while it was all kind of 773 00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:46,800 in the thick of it. And I sat on the couch and I 774 00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:50,640 picked up my guitar and the song came out of me and it was 775 00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:54,320 remarkable. And I feverishly wrote down 776 00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:57,080 melodies and chords and, and put lyrics together. 777 00:43:57,400 --> 00:43:59,280 It was amazing. I haven't been able to do it 778 00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,760 since, but I did it. And it really, it's my story 779 00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:05,320 basically from beginning to end in a song. 780 00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:09,360 And I've recently had it professionally recorded and 781 00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:11,720 it's, you know, on Spotify and everywhere. 782 00:44:11,720 --> 00:44:15,320 I couldn't be more proud. And I love, I love sharing it. 783 00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:18,120 Yeah, that's amazing. If you would send me the link, 784 00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:20,600 I'd be happy to put that in the show notes. 785 00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:26,680 What advice do you have for a parent who may be keeping adna 786 00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:33,000 surprise from their child? Well, yeah, that's quite simple. 787 00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:34,880 There. There are no secrets anymore. 788 00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:39,040 So I think it's it, you know, gone are the days where you can 789 00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:40,880 hope that this will stay under wraps. 790 00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:47,080 It won't. And I think it's, it's very, you 791 00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:51,120 know, important that you you get to have these conversations 792 00:44:51,240 --> 00:44:54,480 while you can, you know, and, and because if you've got a 793 00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:57,560 child that you want to say something to and then you die 794 00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:00,240 and you don't and they find out, I mean, I think it leaves a lot 795 00:45:00,240 --> 00:45:04,680 of just a lot of open questions, you know, So, yeah, I mean it 796 00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:07,800 based on my experience, I sure wish my mom would have told me, 797 00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:11,120 would have loved to have of talk to my dad about it. 798 00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:13,440 It would have completely changed my relationship with my dad. 799 00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:16,440 We still would have had one. We would have had an amazing 800 00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:21,320 relationship, you know, if if I had of known and I think it 801 00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:23,680 would have been, it would have been good for my mom too. 802 00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:27,120 We could have eased into it together and not had a a big 803 00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:29,800 dramatic moment. It would have been nice to just 804 00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:32,080 kind of talk about this and get it out in the open. 805 00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:35,520 But having said that, I completely understand why she 806 00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:39,160 didn't and I get that completely, but I would just say 807 00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:41,680 the truth will set you free. You know, this must have been 808 00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:45,640 eating away at her all her life. My wife and I talk about it all 809 00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:48,800 the time and like she this would have consumed her like in 810 00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:52,160 everything she did, you know, and I truly believe that. 811 00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:55,160 So, you know, like, like anything, any situation, I think 812 00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:57,000 the truth definitely will set you free. 813 00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:01,280 And what advice do you have for someone who just uncovered Adna 814 00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:11,920 surprise? Oh yeah, I'd say just take it in 815 00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:18,160 and try and lead with love and empathy and don't let anger get 816 00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:22,200 in the way of anything because it will creep in depending on 817 00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:24,680 the situation. But it's not useful and not 818 00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:26,640 helpful. And I think if you could just 819 00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:30,920 have an open mind and try and understand that everybody's got 820 00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:32,880 their story and everybody's got their reason. 821 00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:35,320 It's not a a blame game or an anger thing. 822 00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:38,680 It's just a, OK, here's our new reality, let's get into it. 823 00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:41,880 What's happening, you know, and I think that's that's really 824 00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:43,800 important. I think that would be my advice 825 00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:47,000 for sure. Patrick, thank you so much for 826 00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:49,880 coming on the podcast and sharing your story. 827 00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:54,640 What a journey you have been on. I felt like I was riding a 828 00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:58,040 roller coaster with you from the beginning, but what a beautiful, 829 00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:01,640 you know, ultimately and overall kind of beautiful resolution 830 00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:04,680 that you've had in these relationships that you've built 831 00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:07,440 and the compassion that you show your mother. 832 00:47:08,240 --> 00:47:12,080 I hope that things just continue to move in a wonderful direction 833 00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:14,240 as you build these relationships. 834 00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:16,600 Yeah. Thank you very much. 835 00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:19,560 Thanks again to Patrick for sharing his story. 836 00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:23,440 If you'd like to listen to Patrick's song, Dark Horse, you 837 00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:25,240 can check it out in the show notes. 838 00:47:26,720 --> 00:47:29,880 If you have adna surprise that you'd like to share, please 839 00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:34,440 submit your story at dnasurprises.com and for early 840 00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:37,640 add free access to episodes, join me over on 841 00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:41,880 patreon@patreon.com/DNA Surprises. 842 00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:47,000 Until next time. DNA Surprises is hosted, 843 00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:50,880 produced and edited by me, Alexis Our Salt. 844 00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:55,720 It is mixed and mastered by Josh Oursalt of Siren Recording 845 00:47:55,720 --> 00:47:56,480 Studios.