1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:04,200 I also was, I was scared for my mother because she, you know, 2 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:08,240 told me if your father finds this out, he will disown you and 3 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:10,680 divorce me. This is the reason they got 4 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:16,840 married 50 years ago was because she told him I was his child. 5 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:20,640 So he married her because he was, quote, doing the right 6 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:23,400 thing. Probably not the thing you want 7 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:27,160 to find out after 50 years of marriage almost at that point 8 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:30,800 that you didn't need to do that. You spent your life in a 9 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:32,880 marriage that you did not need to be in. 10 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:35,680 And, you know, of course, like any marriage, it had its ups and 11 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:38,400 downs, more downs than UPS. They were young and didn't 12 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:40,880 really know each other and got married for the wrong reasons 13 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:45,840 and somehow are able to sustain it for public consumption for a 14 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:49,480 long time. And so her expectation of me was 15 00:00:49,480 --> 00:00:53,000 that I would continue to, you know, play the game, be the good 16 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:58,320 girl and not say anything. Welcome to DNA Surprises, a 17 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:01,680 podcast that delves into the world of unexpected DNA 18 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:05,319 discoveries. I'm your host, Alexis ourselves. 19 00:01:05,960 --> 00:01:11,360 In July 2021, my life took a surprising turn when I found out 20 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:16,160 that I'm an NPE, a person who has experienced a non paternal 21 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:19,480 event. In other words, my biological 22 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:21,760 father isn't who I thought he was. 23 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:27,560 Join me as we explore the stories of NP, ES, adoptees, and 24 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:30,080 donor conceived people and their families. 25 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:34,040 Get ready to unravel the astonishing journeys that begin 26 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:39,360 with a simple DNA test. This is DNA surprises. 27 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:44,480 Welcome to Season 9 of DNA Surprises. 28 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:50,480 This season we're going to cross 100 episodes and in celebration, 29 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:54,920 I am so excited to share new stories as well as updates from 30 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:57,520 past guests that you won't want to miss. 31 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:02,120 Before we begin this episode, I also want to give a big thank 32 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:05,520 you to everyone who has joined the Patreon community as an 33 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:08,560 independent podcast. Your support helps me continue 34 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:12,320 producing the show. If you aren't on Patreon yet, 35 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:16,960 join me over there for AD free episodes, early access, bonus 36 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:20,160 content, and weekly DNA discussion posts. 37 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:23,640 Joining is free, and you can listen to episodes one week 38 00:02:23,640 --> 00:02:26,920 early and AD free for as little as $5 per month. 39 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:31,800 Learn more at patreon.com/DNA. Surprises. 40 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:37,920 All right, let's begin Season 9. What never fails to surprise me 41 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:41,400 is how innocently DNA surprises begin. 42 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:47,400 In this episode we hear from Doe, and yes, that's a pseudonym 43 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:55,000 who uncovered her DNA surprise IN2021A skillful genealogist Doe 44 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:59,000 bought ADNA test for her husband who was curious about his family 45 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,120 history. As it just so happened she 46 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:05,440 purchased the test during a buy one get one free sale. 47 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:08,000 So she decided to take a test herself. 48 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:11,800 When she received her results, she learned that not only was 49 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:15,400 her birth certificate father, not her biological father, but 50 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:18,400 that the story she'd always believed about her mother was 51 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:22,000 false. She shares how the discovery and 52 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:25,600 the continued secrecy have affected her and how she uses 53 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:30,200 her experience to help others. Thank you for sharing your 54 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:33,360 story, Doe. My name is Doe. 55 00:03:33,640 --> 00:03:36,520 I use the pseudonym to protect my identity. 56 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:40,200 I'm 53 years old and I live in Tucson, AZ. 57 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:41,960 I was born and raised in upstate New York. 58 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:47,640 Well my surprise story goes back to 2021 when I discovered my DNA 59 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:51,560 surprise, which was in August of that year but prior to that 60 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:57,040 starting back in childhood. I am the daughter of a 17 year 61 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:01,160 old high school senior. She she herself was raised by a 62 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:03,960 single mother and found herself pregnant with me. 63 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:08,560 She was sure she knew who my biological mother was and she 64 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:10,640 notified him that she was pregnant with his child. 65 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:15,480 He proceeded to leave town and he was gone for about 2 1/2 66 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:17,360 years with no one hearing from him. 67 00:04:17,959 --> 00:04:21,959 And during that time I lived with my teenage mother and her 68 00:04:21,959 --> 00:04:26,280 mother who was about my age at the time when I was born, and 69 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:30,080 they both helped together to raise me for the first three 70 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:32,800 years of my life. The man that my mother notified 71 00:04:32,840 --> 00:04:35,760 was my father. He returned when I was about 2 72 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:39,320 1/2 years old and for pressure from his family. 73 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:42,520 They were a very Catholic family and there was pressure to do the 74 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:45,840 right thing. And so he more or less said, 75 00:04:45,840 --> 00:04:47,800 hey, maybe we should do the right thing and get married. 76 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:50,600 Very romantic. So. 77 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:57,160 So at 20 and 22, they were married in the spring of 1973. 78 00:04:57,280 --> 00:05:00,000 A year later, they bought their first home in a small town in 79 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,280 upstate where I grew up and live my childhood. 80 00:05:03,280 --> 00:05:05,680 My teenagers graduated from high school. 81 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,160 My father and I really never had a relationship with one another. 82 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:12,400 He comes from an abusive background and really had no 83 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,400 idea how to relate to a child since no one had ever really 84 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:19,000 related to him. So it was a very contentious, 85 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:24,400 stressful, abusive upbringing in a lot of ways, and with a mother 86 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:27,680 who was young and and had no real sense of her own self or 87 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,480 power to try to defend me against it. 88 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:34,960 So I got out of that town and the house as soon as I could. 89 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:38,920 I went to school in New York. I went on to get married, had 90 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:41,400 two children. The marriage did not work out 91 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:45,160 and my children and I moved from upstate New York to southern 92 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:49,200 Arizona in the year 2000. I went to nursing school and 93 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:54,000 reeducated myself and became an RN, working here in town since 94 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,240 2007. And that's sort of where my ball 95 00:05:57,240 --> 00:06:01,120 starts rolling is I have been at my job for many, many years. 96 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:04,800 One of my colleagues who work on the same floor as I do, came to 97 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:08,200 me one day and was talking to me about the fact that she had just 98 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:12,520 celebrated her 65th birthday and that she had been adopted as a 99 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:17,040 30 day old infant from a home for unwed mothers in Richmond, 100 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:21,800 VA in 1956, and that she had done ADNA test to see if she 101 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:25,160 could find family members. She had heard a rumor that I was 102 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:27,600 a genealogist. That was something I had done as 103 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,200 a hobby shortly after having my first child. 104 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:34,600 I was interested in where I came from and what I was contributing 105 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:38,080 to my child genetically and ethnically and culturally. 106 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:42,000 And so I had started not knowing a thing and self-taught. 107 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:45,280 So it had been quite a while. I was pretty skilled at the 108 00:06:45,280 --> 00:06:48,280 genealogy aspect of what she was looking for. 109 00:06:48,280 --> 00:06:52,760 The DNA aspect, not so much. The DNA portion like in nursing 110 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:55,880 school was rather limited. So it was going to take a bit 111 00:06:55,880 --> 00:07:00,680 more of a deep dive for me, so. You were just interested in in 112 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:05,080 family history. Your interest in genealogy had 113 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:08,120 nothing to do with suspicions that you might have had. 114 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:11,640 Correct. My father-in-law at the time, he 115 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:16,760 was a avid amateur genealogist and he was sort of sharing his 116 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:19,400 spines with me regarding his side of the family. 117 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:24,240 And so when my children had such a complete picture of where who 118 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:28,080 they were genetically and genealogically on one side of 119 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:30,920 their family, I was hoping to provide for mine as well. 120 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:34,360 So that's where my interest in genealogy came up was to sort of 121 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:37,600 fill in that gap for my children and and I just really loved it. 122 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:41,280 OK, so going. Back over to your colleague. 123 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:46,280 She's wanting to do some digging into her adoptive or not her 124 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:48,720 adoptive, her birth parents, correct? 125 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:51,720 OK. She'd been raised in a wonderful 126 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:56,560 family with an older brother and two parents who she had this 127 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:59,520 amazing life. Her parents had passed and she 128 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,240 was interested in finding out where she came from, sort of 129 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:05,080 that primal need to know where you come from. 130 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:08,640 So I offered to help her and I said I would do the best I could 131 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:10,000 to try to help her figure it out. 132 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:14,480 She had some paperwork from her adoption, which she graciously 133 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:16,120 let me look through and read over. 134 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:20,840 It took me about two weeks to figure out how DNA and genealogy 135 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:23,200 go together and use the ancestry.com. 136 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:27,360 I was able to identify her parents by the end of the two 137 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:31,520 weeks, and her father had passed away, but her mother was still 138 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:36,000 living and was in Baltimore, MD. And I was able to provide her 139 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,080 with her mother's address and telephone number. 140 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:41,799 When I gave her the information, I said, you know, the thing I 141 00:08:41,799 --> 00:08:45,120 want you to think about is that there's a lot of ethical issues 142 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:47,720 that come with finding out this information. 143 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:50,040 You know, your mother wished to be anonymous. 144 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:53,960 She did not provide her name. She did not provide any bread 145 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:57,120 crumbs, which might have allowed you to figure out who she was 146 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:00,640 without needing to go to sort of these, you know, great lengths 147 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:03,120 to figure it out. So just know when you're 148 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:07,160 thinking about reaching out, know that you could get rejected 149 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:11,840 because she's been hiding the secret for 65 years and you're 150 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:13,320 just not sure where this might lead. 151 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:15,600 So she chewed on it for a little while. 152 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:17,520 But she did ultimately call her mother. 153 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:21,200 They spoke on the phone and she told her who she thought she was 154 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:25,720 and her mother did verify that I was correct, that she was my 155 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:29,760 colleague's biological mother and there was a rejection there. 156 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:33,680 She had gone on to marry and have four other children and no 157 00:09:33,680 --> 00:09:38,000 one knew that she had given birth to this child in 1956 in 158 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:42,480 Virginia and she asked that it stay that way. 159 00:09:42,560 --> 00:09:45,960 She had did not have a desire to bring her daughter into her life 160 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:49,000 and use her. So then, of course, now my 161 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:51,640 colleague and friend is dealing with the fallout from that. 162 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:55,000 But she did have a very good experience with her paternal 163 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:56,680 side. They welcomed her with open 164 00:09:56,680 --> 00:09:58,360 arms. She's been to Virginia several 165 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:02,720 times to see them and has just been, was eternally grateful to 166 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:03,920 me. And it was a really wonderful 167 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:06,800 feeling to be able to help someone figure out who they were 168 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:10,080 and to see a more or less a really good experience for her. 169 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:15,160 So after that, my husband, he wasn't my husband at the time, 170 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:18,560 but he is now. At the time he had said to me, 171 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:21,520 why don't you do a tree for me? Just out of curiosity. 172 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:23,040 I'd like to see what you can come up with. 173 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:26,240 OK, sure. So I took what I knew and 174 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:27,920 started putting a tree together for him. 175 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:33,440 And I pretty quickly discovered that his father's father was an 176 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:39,680 illegitimate child, so he had taken on his mother's last name 177 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:42,480 and there was no birth certificate for him. 178 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:45,040 No, like christening records, nothing. 179 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:52,600 He was born in 1897 in Arkansas, and in the mid 40s he had filled 180 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:57,160 out a delayed birth certificate to allow him to be eligible for 181 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,920 Social Security. And on the delayed birth 182 00:10:59,920 --> 00:11:03,480 certificate, when asked if his birth was legitimate or not, it 183 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:05,440 said no. So. 184 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:09,160 Wow. OK, so I wanna, I wanna stop you 185 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:12,880 there because I didn't realize that this was something that was 186 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:17,680 documented, the illegitimate versus legitimate that's 187 00:11:17,680 --> 00:11:21,280 actually on paperwork. It it is on his actual delayed 188 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:23,800 birth certificate form, yes. Wow. 189 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:25,560 OK. And so this is your husband's 190 00:11:25,560 --> 00:11:27,160 grandfather. Correct. 191 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:30,920 OK, OK. And of course, he passed on in 192 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:35,800 1976 and my husband's father passed in 2011. 193 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:40,600 So anyone that would have had any possible information to give 194 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:43,760 us was gone at that point, with me being able to ask the 195 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:45,480 questions to get to the bottom of it. 196 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:50,000 And so when I presented my husband with my findings and he 197 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:53,440 said, how do I figure out who my great grandfather was? 198 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:56,560 And I said, well, you're going to have to do DNAI. 199 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:02,120 I have no way of figuring this out without having that tool to 200 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:04,880 help us narrow it down. Yes, your grand grandfather 201 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:07,840 could be anyone. He wasn't sure he wanted to do 202 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:10,800 it. So he chewed on it for a while. 203 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:17,080 And in May of 2021, I said I had seen on Ancestry that they were 204 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:20,840 running a buy one, get one for the upcoming Father's Day 205 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:25,800 holiday for their DNA test kits. And so I bought one, got one 206 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:28,720 free, got it in the mail, and I gave it to him for Father's Day. 207 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:32,160 And I said I will do it with you for moral support if you would 208 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:35,200 like to. And he said, OK, let's do it. 209 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:40,240 So in June of 2021, we both spit in tubes and we packaged them up 210 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:44,160 and sent them off. About four weeks later, I get a 211 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:48,040 text message that my DNA results are in and mine actually came in 212 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:52,280 ahead of his. And so I excitedly sat down to 213 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:55,960 my computer. I, I had a couple of brick walls 214 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:59,360 in my genealogy research, especially on my father's side, 215 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:01,760 that I was having trouble breaking through. 216 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,960 And other people in the family had also had trouble breaking 217 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:06,280 through some of these brick walls. 218 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:09,640 And so my thought here was, I'm going to get these answers. 219 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:12,200 This is going to be great. I'm going to be able to the bus 220 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:14,400 through those walls and get some answers. 221 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:19,240 So I logged into my results and I have this extensive list of 222 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:22,200 people that I've matched to. The very first person, my 223 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:25,600 closest match is a person. I recognize the name right away. 224 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:27,880 She's a cousin of mine through my mother. 225 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:34,400 And so ancestry.com has this option where you can choose one 226 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:37,800 of your DNA matches. You can select A button called 227 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:41,840 Shared Matches and it will show you all of the matches you have 228 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:45,240 in common with this person. So knowing this was a maternal 229 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:48,880 match, I knew everyone I shared with this match would be my 230 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:52,840 mother's family. So I noted that on all of those 231 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:56,320 people. And then I went back into the 232 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:59,560 program and I asked to click on my paternal side, let me show 233 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:03,560 see my paternal DNA. And my question was, who the 234 00:14:03,560 --> 00:14:07,720 hell are all these people? I don't recognize any of these 235 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:10,920 names. My closest match was a person 236 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:17,400 that I had never heard of before and so I was sort of confused. 237 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:20,160 I guess I wasn't really a surprise yet. 238 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:22,640 I was more confused than anything. 239 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:24,400 That must be something went wrong. 240 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:27,960 That'd be weird though, because my maternal DNA is matching 241 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:31,920 correctly and I didn't really know much about the process of 242 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:34,240 how the DNA is extracted and how it's tested. 243 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:37,520 And so I started doing my homework about the process of 244 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:40,160 how the DNA is extracted and tested and how the matching 245 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:44,320 works and all of those things, just to be able to see, is there 246 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:46,840 something here that I might have fallen through a crack? 247 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:49,680 This mind is incorrect. Oh. 248 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:53,320 Yes, the the the infamous mental gymnastics. 249 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:59,920 Yes I also I concluded that 50% of my DNA was incorrect. 250 00:14:59,920 --> 00:15:03,360 Somehow the lab messed up. That was my trick. 251 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:07,200 And isn't it interesting that that is with our go to because 252 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:10,480 how could this be this this cannot be right. 253 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:14,520 So, you know, why in the world would my, you know, mother tell 254 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:16,520 me something that wasn't true? Yeah. 255 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:20,520 So you did not recognize any of the people, You didn't recognize 256 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:23,840 the name or anything like that? No, none of it. 257 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:27,160 There was no one on my paternal DNA matches that I recognize. 258 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:32,560 So the story that my mother had always told me was that the when 259 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:35,040 she got pregnant with me, she lost her virginity. 260 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:39,560 So I grew up believing that, you know, Gee, mom, that's awful. 261 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:43,520 Like, I felt really bad for her. You lost your virginity and got 262 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:45,880 pregnant. Like, that is so rough. 263 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:50,720 Gosh, mom, that's awful. And so I was coming into it with 264 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:55,280 that being my knowledge base. So it literally was impossible 265 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:58,240 for anyone other than this man to be my father. 266 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:02,400 And why would my mother tell me something that wasn't true? 267 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:07,680 So what I did then was I I started to look at my top 268 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:11,840 matches and I'm trying to figure out a way using my genealogy, my 269 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:17,000 new information for genetics and DNA and how am I going to figure 270 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:20,360 this out? So I took my top 20 paternal 271 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:23,920 matches and I figured out how they were all related to each 272 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:26,840 other using my genealogy skills and using databases 273 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:30,520 onlineancestry.com, Facebook, you name it, I was using it. 274 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,680 And so I was identifying these people and identifying their 275 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:37,840 relationship to one another. There was one person on my match 276 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:42,400 list that I had reached out to and said, hey, Ancestry says 277 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:44,200 we're related. Do you have any clue how? 278 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:50,640 And she said, no, I did my DNA because my father is adopted and 279 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:54,560 I was hoping to find his family for him by doing my DNA. 280 00:16:55,200 --> 00:17:01,000 And I said, well, your father and I are related through my 281 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:05,440 eternal line apparently. So I was trying to grasp at any 282 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:09,880 straw who can give me any information about who you are so 283 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:12,200 that, you know, maybe I can figure this out. 284 00:17:12,839 --> 00:17:18,640 My next thought process was that maybe my grandfather isn't who I 285 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:22,520 think he is. Maybe my father is the person 286 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,640 whose DNA is not correct. So I sort of went down that 287 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:29,680 rabbit hole briefly and then sort of backtracked. 288 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:32,440 No, that's that probably isn't likely. 289 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:37,840 And so there was one day in the beginning of September, I would 290 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:41,160 say of 2021, I'm sitting at my computer and I'm looking at 291 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:45,200 this, at the Excel spreadsheet and the family tree and all of 292 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:48,120 the work I had done to figure out all of this. 293 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:52,080 And my husband says to me, so anything new? 294 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:55,400 And I said, no, I, I'm so confused. 295 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:57,840 I just don't even know. I'm not sure what I'm looking at 296 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:00,280 anymore. I don't know where I fit in all 297 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:01,800 of this. It just doesn't make any sense. 298 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:06,520 And he said, if this were someone else's DNA, what would 299 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:10,640 you tell them? And I paused for a very long 300 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:15,680 time and said with a very shaking voice, I would tell them 301 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:18,080 that the man they think is their father is not their father. 302 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:23,280 And he just put his hand on my shoulder and let me cry. 303 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:28,480 Up until that point, had it even crossed your mind or had you 304 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:32,080 fully pushed it out until he asked you that question? 305 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:36,640 I think I fully pushed it out. I was not willing to even 306 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:40,600 entertain the idea, but he has a way of bringing things into 307 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:44,440 focus for me when I'm having trouble figuring out which 308 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:47,120 direction I'm going in. And he broke it down to the very 309 00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:50,280 simplest, simplest common denominator. 310 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:52,160 Take yourself out of the equation. 311 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:55,320 Now, what do you think? Yeah, that was. 312 00:18:55,680 --> 00:19:00,080 A good question to to ask and kind of bring things into focus. 313 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:06,680 So I'm so sorry. That is devastating to realize, 314 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:10,080 especially you've been doing all this research trying to make it 315 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:16,200 make sense in a different way. What do you do once you realize 316 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:21,760 that this is the case? It took a few days for me to 317 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:23,560 sort of get my feet back under me. 318 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:29,600 What I really felt initially was I was angry at my mother. 319 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:32,680 It was the very first thing I felt. 320 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:37,480 I felt cheated and I felt manipulated and I I was going 321 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:39,280 through all sorts of scenarios in my head. 322 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,720 How could this be, given what I knew, what I thought I knew to 323 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:46,680 be true about my conception, how can this even be possible? 324 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:53,440 Then I started to to really sort of get scared because I'm still 325 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:58,320 trying to protect my mother. Subconsciously, I think I 326 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:03,880 started to think maybe I was the result of an assault and that 327 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:06,760 she had tried to keep it quiet. You know, this is, you know, 328 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:11,440 obviously culturally. This is a problem in our society 329 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,760 that women are the victims of sexual violence and are not 330 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:17,280 believed. And at the time I was born, 331 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:19,960 absolutely not, which she had been able to tell anyone 332 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:22,520 anything like that and which she had been believed. 333 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:27,880 So my thoughts then sort of turned to really devastation for 334 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:31,360 her because what if this is what has happened? 335 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:34,440 And boy, you know, this woman raised me, the child of 336 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:37,000 violence, and I was going down all of these, this rabbit hole 337 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:41,240 with this as well. So I knew that I was not ready 338 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:43,880 to talk to my mother about this and to ask the big question, 339 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,600 which was who is my biological father? 340 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:51,600 After a few days, that's right, immediately where I went to, the 341 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:55,800 thing that I felt most grateful for through this whole process 342 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:59,520 was I had the skill set to figure out who my father was. 343 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:06,560 And so by when I removed myself from the picture and just sort 344 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:10,240 of looked at myself as a client that I was going to help figure 345 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,240 out where they come from, things started to fall into place 346 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,240 pretty quickly. Then once I put on my genealogy 347 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:22,240 hat and took off my NPE hat and I was able to figure out who my 348 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,760 biological father is pretty quickly. 349 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,560 I found a picture of him online, his high school yearbook photo, 350 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:34,800 which I look exactly like. He has a daughter that's five 351 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,640 years younger than me who could be my twin. 352 00:21:38,120 --> 00:21:40,600 When people see the photograph of her, they think it's me. 353 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:45,560 I also have 1/2 brother who's 11 months younger than me. 354 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:50,560 And what I discovered was that my biological father was engaged 355 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:52,520 to be married at the time of my conception. 356 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:55,840 He is also seven years older than my mother. 357 00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:01,160 She was underage at the time of my conception, and So what I 358 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:06,640 knew was that I was on his side. At least I was the product of 359 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:08,400 going outside of our relationship. 360 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:13,600 But then the last part of the puzzle was how I knew who I 361 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:17,040 knew, where I knew when I didn't know how. 362 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:22,320 And I really needed to know. And it was a real struggle to 363 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:25,160 try to find the words to talk to my mother about it. 364 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:29,520 I was terrified she was going to disown me, that she was going 365 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:33,280 to, you know, be terrified that I had figured it out. 366 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:37,440 I found out her long held secret which could just blow everything 367 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:41,240 up. So I took about 3 months to 368 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:44,480 really sort of put it all together in my head. 369 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:49,840 And I eventually ended up sending my mother a text message 370 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:54,080 because I just could not find the words to to tell her what I 371 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:57,920 had discovered. And what does all this mean? 372 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,760 I'm I'm trying to figure out what's how this happened. 373 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:06,920 How did you have the patience to wait for three months? 374 00:23:07,360 --> 00:23:11,800 I hear on this podcast all the time, kind of varying timelines, 375 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:13,960 right? There's the people who as soon 376 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,400 as they open their tests, they're calling their moms 377 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,760 wanting to know, myself included. 378 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:24,240 And then and then there's people who have waited like a year 379 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,760 before asking their parents anything and kind of just 380 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:31,560 sitting with it. How did you find the patients to 381 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,320 wait, especially with this detective, you know, genetic 382 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:39,160 genealogist side of you? How did you hold off and have 383 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,320 patients? I think it had a lot to do with 384 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,360 my fear of what it would do to my relationship with my mother. 385 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:49,680 And I knew I wanted to, I wanted, I needed to be in a 386 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:56,120 place where I was going to be, I guess OK with her severing our 387 00:23:56,120 --> 00:24:00,600 relationship if that was going to happen as a result of me 388 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,600 confronting her with this, as I've mentioned before, it was a 389 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,920 very dysfunctional childhood that I came up through. 390 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,760 So I what I realized through this journey is I never really 391 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,320 had a good grasp on who either one of my parents were. 392 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:17,240 They were very good at hiding who they were from me, as you 393 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,520 know, personal in on the inside people. 394 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:24,200 And so I really, truly thought she would disown me over this 395 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:26,440 because whatever it had happened, she clearly was trying 396 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:30,840 to keep this a secret. And I was about to out her and I 397 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,440 needed to do it in a way, hopefully that would try to 398 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:37,240 preserve something of my relationship with her because I 399 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,920 really felt at that point, well, I know who my biological father 400 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:45,800 is, but he I don't know if he knows I exist and or and now I 401 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,440 know about him, but no relationship with him at all. 402 00:24:49,120 --> 00:24:52,600 The man that raised me is not my biological father and I've never 403 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,600 had a relationship with him. And now the relationship with my 404 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:57,920 mother is on the table over this. 405 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:04,200 So I needed to put myself in this place where I was OK, I 406 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:09,600 like to say I was OK being orphaned because I felt like 407 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:10,880 that's where this might be heading. 408 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:15,280 And so I really needed to have a lot of internal conversation 409 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:18,960 with myself about how much did I need to know the truth? 410 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:23,840 Was it worth potentially losing my mother from my life over 411 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,760 this? And after that, three months or 412 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:31,480 so of really struggling with it, I decided I needed to know. 413 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:38,320 And so I composed a rather long text message and it essentially, 414 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,840 you know, said I have something I need to tell you I and I don't 415 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:43,680 know how. So I'm doing it here. 416 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,680 I prefer to do it to your face, but we don't live near one 417 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:49,000 another. And it just didn't seem like 418 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,640 anything to do over the phone either because I wasn't sure who 419 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,920 she might be with when I called. Would she be in a place to talk 420 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,960 about it? So I decided this was my best 421 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,000 option and I sort of spelled it out for her. 422 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:05,440 What happened and I randomly took ADNA test for no 423 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:09,000 significant reason other than to support my husband. 424 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:14,080 And this is what I discovered. And I did mention, you know, if 425 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:17,680 I'm the product of the salt, I want you to know I I would never 426 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:21,080 blame you. I completely understand sort of 427 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,760 touched on all of those aspects of what sort of I had thought 428 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:30,120 maybe was my back story. And I waited and I waited and I 429 00:26:30,120 --> 00:26:33,360 waited and it was several minutes before response and the 430 00:26:33,360 --> 00:26:36,120 response came across when can we talk? 431 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,840 And that was it. And so it was a couple of days 432 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:46,680 later when I was able to have some time, which I knew I would 433 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:50,480 need a fair amount of to have this conversation that we agreed 434 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:55,400 to talk. And in that conversation, I told 435 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,440 her story. I laid it all out for her. 436 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:02,400 Everything. I told her who my biological 437 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,200 father was, that I had figured out who he was. 438 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,760 And she said, I'm sure you have because you are able to do those 439 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:10,680 kinds of things, So I'm sure you have. 440 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:13,400 And I told her I needed to know my story. 441 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:17,880 How did I come into this world? My mother was so absolutely 442 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:23,000 devastated by this information. She had a nervous breakdown. 443 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:27,160 She was hospitalized because my mother didn't know either. 444 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,560 Oh my gosh. She. 445 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:33,760 She was not hiding anything from you. 446 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,040 Correct. My mother was not hiding. 447 00:27:36,120 --> 00:27:39,720 Well, she was, but she wasn't hiding the fact that she knew 448 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:40,400 my. Paternity. 449 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,280 That's true. OK, yes. 450 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:47,480 So she was not being truthful about not having had sex when 451 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:49,760 she got pregnant with you. Correct. 452 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:54,960 But she fully believed that your birth certificate father was 453 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:56,520 your father. She. 454 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,840 Absolutely believed it. And so I knew in that moment 455 00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:04,080 that she was telling me the truth, that she did truly 456 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,720 believe that he that my birth certificate father was my 457 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:13,440 biological father. And so here we are both in the 458 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:17,560 same sort of crazy situation, but we have totally different 459 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:21,280 trajectories with it. She's now discovering the truth 460 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:25,360 about a child that she carried and raised that she believed was 461 00:28:25,360 --> 00:28:29,400 the child of one person. So she was going through all of 462 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:34,160 that sort of feeling of betrayal and feeling of of almost 463 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:38,520 violation, which I could understand completely thinking 464 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:41,080 you, you had one man's child and it turned out to be someone 465 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:45,440 else's. And also she was struggling with 466 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,400 the idea that this true of the truth would come out and what it 467 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:53,520 would do to her life if it did. And so she told me the story of 468 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:57,320 my conception. Obviously her past was not as as 469 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,160 innocent as she had hoped that she could portray it to be. 470 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,800 And essentially what she, without going into too many 471 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,800 details about it, she essentially told me that she 472 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,720 couldn't believe she didn't get pregnant before she did with a 473 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:14,840 child, that she had been going into bars and being served since 474 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:19,720 she was 14 years old, and that I was the product of a drunken one 475 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:21,520 night stand that she really can't recall. 476 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,120 How did you feel when you learned that information? 477 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:34,160 I felt like a dirty little secret that that I knew 478 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,720 immediately I was not going to be able to reach out to my 479 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,760 biological father. I, I knew right away, given her 480 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,600 response that this was not, you know, this was going to be 481 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,360 something I knew she was going to ask me not to do because it, 482 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:50,800 you know, tell as little people as possible. 483 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:55,040 She was upset with me that I told my husband and I said, 484 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,680 well, he's my husband and we live together. 485 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:04,280 I cannot keep this from him. I was, it was totally 486 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:06,880 devastating. I cried every day. 487 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,200 I, you know, I was upset finding out about that. 488 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,920 You know, this man wasn't my father, despite the fact that we 489 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:14,360 had no relationship with one another. 490 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:19,120 Still, his family has a very long history, German and Irish 491 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,640 descent. And so he and his family were 492 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:24,440 very proud of their Irish descent. 493 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,040 Saint Patrick's Day was a holiday in our family and you 494 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:32,480 know, just all of the, that cultural impact, I wore a clad 495 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:36,760 out ring because I identified as an Irish American because our 496 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,280 family was very proud of their Irish heritage. 497 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:44,240 I am, I've been a professional singer for most of my life and 498 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:48,200 my paternal grandmother was a singer was a so clearly this is 499 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,280 where you get your musical ability from all of the things 500 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,520 I've been told my whole life. This is where this comes from. 501 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:55,400 This you, you're proud to be who you are. 502 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:57,480 Where did this all come from then? 503 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,560 Because clearly I did not get my voice from her. 504 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,240 And am I Irish? I don't know. 505 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:08,760 I have no idea. And so it was a real turning 506 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:13,560 upside down of my whole life, looking at my children and 507 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,640 thinking, you know, he's not their grandfather. 508 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,000 Some stranger is their grandfather. 509 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:26,720 And when I put the photo of my biological father at 18 against 510 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,320 with a picture of my oldest child who was in his mid 20s at 511 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:36,320 the time, they are each other's doppelganger like looks exactly 512 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:38,960 like him. I have a nephew through my half 513 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,920 sister who looks just like my second son. 514 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,480 So this the genes are very strong. 515 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:49,120 And so looking those kids in the face and, and telling them, you 516 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:53,000 know, here's the thing, who you think your grandfather is is not 517 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,080 your grandfather and he's not my father. 518 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:57,920 And this is what I'm sort of struggling with right now. 519 00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:02,880 And, you know, there, it's interesting how people can be a 520 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:06,880 step removed from a from a crisis or a trauma and can sort 521 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,640 of help you bring it into perspective a little bit there. 522 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:11,640 I thought was really, mom, are you OK? 523 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,160 How are you? This really doesn't affect us 524 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:20,440 necessarily, but wow, if we were you, this is we feel devastated. 525 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,960 Did they have a relationship with your birth certificate 526 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:28,840 father or did this change much for them in terms of, you know, 527 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,320 their relationship? It didn't. 528 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:35,160 Change it so I've been in Arizona since they were two and 529 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:36,440 four years old. OK. 530 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:39,800 So they've grown up away from that, that, that part of their 531 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:44,520 family, you know, occasional phone calls, video chats, the a 532 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,360 visit here or there. But it there definitely wasn't a 533 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,840 close relationship there with any of my family on that side 534 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:54,840 because of the distance. OK, wow. 535 00:32:55,000 --> 00:33:01,240 So you are just dealing with so much turmoil and feeling 536 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:05,960 completely uprooted and your mom does not want you to tell 537 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:08,080 anyone. But it sounds like you, 538 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:11,640 obviously you told your husband he's your, he's your rock there. 539 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:16,440 And then you tell your children. Who else do you tell when you 540 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,640 have this kind of push from your mom not to disclose? 541 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:24,480 Well, it was tough to decide who to tell and who not to tell 542 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,560 because clearly this was affecting my day-to-day 543 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:31,000 existence and so friends were aware something was very wrong 544 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:35,720 and so it was difficult to know how much to reveal, how much to 545 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:38,680 say and and whether to say anything at all. 546 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:43,160 So what do you do? So I found a therapist, and I 547 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:47,000 started seeing a counselor. In my past, I'd always sort of, 548 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,120 you know, dealt with things emotionally on my own. 549 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,280 I never really thought that I needed professional help. 550 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:56,400 But boy, this was huge. And I knew I couldn't burn my 551 00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,120 husband and my children with trying to help me because they 552 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,840 had no idea where to even begin, where to begin. 553 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:07,520 So I got a recommendation for a counselor who I started seeing 554 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:11,239 weekly. This was a very interesting case 555 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:13,840 for her. She'd never really heard about 556 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:16,840 non parent expected events and DNA surprises. 557 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:20,880 And so it was new for her, sort of new groundbreaking for her 558 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:22,920 and her colleagues. And so they were all sort of 559 00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:27,239 taking an interest in my case and really the and where was I 560 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:29,600 coming from emotionally and mentally. 561 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:34,199 And they were sort of creating a template for how to help the 562 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:38,280 other people like me who may present for their services. 563 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:42,639 And if it was not for my therapist, I'm not sure where I 564 00:34:42,639 --> 00:34:45,320 would be right now. So she gave me a safe place to 565 00:34:45,679 --> 00:34:49,159 really talk about all of my feelings about everything about 566 00:34:49,159 --> 00:34:51,920 my father and about my mother and my dysfunctional 567 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:56,639 relationship with them and my childhood and my adulthood and 568 00:34:56,679 --> 00:34:59,720 how all of this has affected who I am as a person. 569 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:05,040 And how is this now going to also impact me and my future. 570 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:09,080 What I have discovered, it was a long road of self exploration 571 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:15,000 and self discovery and of learning to forgive and and to 572 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,760 learn to accept what you cannot change. 573 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:21,000 My therapist called it radical acceptance. 574 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:23,880 Oh yes, we. Talk about that all the time on 575 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,800 this podcast and at the retreats. 576 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:31,680 And yes, radical acceptance is how we get through right? 577 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,360 That's. The only way does your. 578 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,680 Father know? Does your dad know or have you 579 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,320 held the secret? No, he does not know. 580 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,640 I have a sister that I grew up with who is 6 years younger than 581 00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,240 me. She does not know my mother has 582 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:52,280 sworn me to secrecy and so why I have to be anonymous when I when 583 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,960 I interview Because I am protecting. 584 00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,600 She's asked me to protect her and I, her now have decided that 585 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:04,640 I will do that, so I know that. Therapy is is helping you. 586 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:09,480 How are you coping with holding on to the secret and how is that 587 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:11,360 affecting you? Well, it's made me. 588 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,440 Feel freer. Oddly enough, I'd always felt 589 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:19,960 growing up that I was not where I was supposed to be, and I'm 590 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,160 sure you hear that 100 times over. 591 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:25,920 You always feel like you don't fit, like you're the oddball. 592 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,640 And, you know, even when your parents are pointing it out to 593 00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:31,680 you, you know, we just don't understand where you come from. 594 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,080 I was the first person in my family to go to college. 595 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,560 I actually have two degrees. I was the first person to become 596 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:39,200 a professional musician in my family. 597 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:42,000 Even though there were people with musical ability, I just 598 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:46,320 always sort of had this go get em sort of attitude about life. 599 00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:50,120 And everyone else is very much I'm going to stay in this town 600 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:51,360 in upstate New York and not leave. 601 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:53,280 This is all I want to know about. 602 00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:54,720 I don't want to know about anything else. 603 00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:57,120 So I. Really felt. 604 00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:01,400 A lot of freedom after a while because boy, this explains a 605 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:04,880 lot, doesn't it? It really helped me to see, 606 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,080 you're right, you don't belong in this situation and there's a 607 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:10,000 reason why you don't belong here. 608 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:12,920 And this is the best reason of all. 609 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:18,040 Like it's actually in your DNA that you don't belong, and 610 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:20,880 you're just channeling who you are. 611 00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:23,440 Nature versus nurture and all of the things. 612 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:25,800 Clearly there's something there for nature. 613 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:29,440 Because once I was able to delve a little bit further into my 614 00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:33,040 biological family, I started to get answers to my questions. 615 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:38,280 Yeah, that is. So fascinating how you've been 616 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:43,000 able to use your expertise to find out so much information and 617 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,720 you still have not contacted your biological father, is that 618 00:37:46,720 --> 00:37:48,440 correct? That's correct. 619 00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:51,920 Do you want to? I do. 620 00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:58,760 However, I'm not at a point where I feel like I would be 621 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:02,480 willing to accept the fallout from it, the potential fallout. 622 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,880 You know, you get into these situations where you know, 623 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:09,960 you're trying to keep something secret and the more people that 624 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:14,160 even have an inkling about it, it causes anxiety about 625 00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:16,080 potentially something getting out. 626 00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:22,240 And so my situation is a bit unique because I'm from a rather 627 00:38:22,240 --> 00:38:25,840 small area. The sister that I grew up with 628 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:29,120 and the sister that I didn't grow up with went to school 629 00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:30,760 together and were in the same grade. 630 00:38:31,720 --> 00:38:32,840 Oh. Wow. 631 00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:36,920 OK, so my half. Sisters know each other. 632 00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,520 They're actually friends on social media. 633 00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:41,680 Oh my gosh. OK. 634 00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:45,960 So you're really kind of just sitting back and watching that. 635 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:50,800 Yes, it, it, there's other connections as well, which are a 636 00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,160 bit complicated to explain without like a diagram, but 637 00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:58,520 there's a couple of different ways that it, it's sort of hits 638 00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:01,520 really close. If I were to reach out to my 639 00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:04,760 biological father and let him know of my existence and my 640 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:09,120 son's existence, and if he were to say to me, I want to 641 00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,120 introduce you to the family, I want to have you be a part of 642 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:14,320 things. I would be unable to do that 643 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:19,920 because my half brother and sister know who I am. 644 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:22,800 We, we live in a very small area. 645 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:27,640 My sister that I did not grow up with, her husband has known me 646 00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:31,600 since childhood. Oh my gosh. 647 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:34,280 So if I came. Out to my bio father and he 648 00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:37,920 introduced me to the family. This man is going to say there's 649 00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:42,080 no what? This isn't your father. 650 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:44,200 He's your father. He's been your. 651 00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:49,200 Father my whole life, well, he actually hasn't been so I I feel 652 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,400 like I'm feeling. Anxious just right. 653 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:56,560 And all of the. The close connections and you 654 00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,640 know, it's like you're, you're like on a razor's edge, right 655 00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:02,520 of, of proximity to these people. 656 00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:05,920 For sure there's No 6. Degrees of separation here it's 657 00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:09,240 maybe one or two and that's it. So in your. 658 00:40:09,240 --> 00:40:12,840 Ancestry results. Did you toggle it so that people 659 00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:16,320 can't match with you? Is there a concern about the 660 00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,520 siblings you grew up with taking the test and seeing that you're 661 00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:22,040 half siblings or somebody else finding you? 662 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,520 So there was but. I was able to disguise my 663 00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:29,800 identity on ancestry so you can use like an alias. 664 00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:32,880 As far as and when people are looking at any information you 665 00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:36,600 have on ancestry, instead of my name being attached to it, it 666 00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:40,280 will be my alias attached to it, which is like, it's sort of like 667 00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:42,960 a code name that you can use. Some people just use their 668 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:46,360 initials for their ancestry account so that nobody can 669 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,200 figure out who they are that way to keep their things private. 670 00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:53,240 So I just switched everything over to an alias and I, you 671 00:40:53,240 --> 00:40:57,640 know, named my tree DNA family tree, keep it all very sort of 672 00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:01,120 benign. And of course, anybody that's 673 00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:05,680 living in the tree is not visible to other people looking 674 00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:07,720 at your tree. Even if you make it public, your 675 00:41:07,720 --> 00:41:12,480 living people are not shown. And so if say one of my half 676 00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:16,120 siblings through my biological father were to test, they're 677 00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:18,160 going to match to me, but they're not going to be able to 678 00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:23,800 get too much from my tree except to see past like, like to the 679 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:27,520 grandparents level. That's about as far as they'd be 680 00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:32,040 able to actually see. So my biological father has two 681 00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:35,520 brothers as well. And so I felt pretty confident 682 00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:38,640 that given how much time it took me to to do the whole genetic 683 00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:43,160 genealogy thing and figure out how to work all of that, someone 684 00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:45,360 without that background just logging in and looking at their 685 00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:49,840 DNA might not go that far to say, I'm going to try to figure 686 00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:53,120 out who this is. And I have had matches come 687 00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:55,760 along since then through my biological father. 688 00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:59,960 And what I'm discovering is that there are a lot of what I call 689 00:41:59,960 --> 00:42:03,320 disenfranchised children from this family. 690 00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:08,760 So there's people out there. That are testing because they 691 00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:14,640 don't have a connection to their family and they are part of my 692 00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:18,560 paternal family. So there is a group of five men, 693 00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:23,280 one of them being I matched to his daughter on Ancestry. 694 00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:26,680 She's the one who told me my dad is adopted and we did this test 695 00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:28,760 to see if we could figure out who his parents are. 696 00:42:29,240 --> 00:42:34,560 What I discovered was is that he had four half brothers, all of 697 00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:38,560 them shared the same mother who is a cousin of my biological 698 00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:40,920 father. OK. 699 00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:44,400 All five of them were raised either in foster care or were 700 00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:47,680 given up for adoption and didn't know about one another. 701 00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:52,320 So I was able to bring. Five brothers together. 702 00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,600 OK, I was gonna ask. Did you make a connection there? 703 00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,240 Yes, I was able to. Identify all of their biological 704 00:42:59,240 --> 00:43:02,280 fathers. For them, that's incredible. 705 00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:05,920 And do they? Now have like a relationship so 706 00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:07,360 they. Are all now, you know, in 707 00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:11,240 contact with each other and going over memories and seeing 708 00:43:11,240 --> 00:43:13,240 some of them are seeing photographs of family members 709 00:43:13,240 --> 00:43:15,480 for the first time. This is your biological mother. 710 00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:19,400 This is your biological father, you know, So it's been a really 711 00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:20,960 great experience for all of them. 712 00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:25,600 And I find myself being surrounded by people who are all 713 00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:28,760 having really good experiences with their DNA. 714 00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:32,480 And I find myself at the center of that storm in a position of 715 00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:36,640 not not having the same, same experience as them. 716 00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:38,360 Yeah. So. 717 00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:41,480 You, you kind of are at this point. 718 00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:45,040 You've told the people that you've told, and you are now 719 00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:49,560 anonymously kind of moving through this space. 720 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:53,880 Where would you say you are now with everything and what do you 721 00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:56,200 hope for next? I. 722 00:43:56,240 --> 00:43:59,120 Feel like I'm in a reasonably good spot now. 723 00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:01,840 I I can talk about this without crying. 724 00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:05,480 So that's, I always thought that was really great the first time 725 00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:08,360 I was able to have a discussion about this with someone and I 726 00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:10,040 didn't spend the whole time in tears. 727 00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:13,120 That I thought was a good sign that I had reached a good point 728 00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:17,880 where I can talk about it and it still hurts, but I have a handle 729 00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:22,200 on it. But I find a lot of healing and 730 00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:26,720 helping others because I know how I felt when I had that 731 00:44:26,720 --> 00:44:31,400 realization that this man is not my father, then who is? 732 00:44:31,720 --> 00:44:35,760 And I, when I put myself into someone else's shoes who maybe 733 00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:38,120 like me, who didn't feel like they could reach out to their 734 00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:41,400 mother immediately and find out what was going on or just wants 735 00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:43,960 to sort of figure it out on their own without pulling the 736 00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:45,760 other people in, how can I help them? 737 00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:49,320 Because I know if I wasn't able to help myself, I would have 738 00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:52,280 went crazy because I needed that information. 739 00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:54,920 It gave me something to focus on and something to channel that 740 00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:58,480 pain and anxiety through to find my truth. 741 00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:03,560 And I know how reassuring that can feel to find it. 742 00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:06,760 It starts a whole other cascade of emotions and feelings. 743 00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:09,160 Once you figure it out, that's not the end. 744 00:45:09,240 --> 00:45:13,080 It's, and I think that anyone who's been through this, I don't 745 00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:15,840 know maybe if you would agree with me, but there's always 746 00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:18,400 another question. There's always another piece of 747 00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:21,160 information you want to know. And no matter how much 748 00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:24,280 information you find out, will it ever be enough? 749 00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:28,000 Yes. Yes, that's something that we've 750 00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:31,320 definitely talked about. And the fact that you kind of 751 00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:33,840 sometimes have to make peace with the fact that you will have 752 00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:37,720 that radical acceptance that you will never have all of the 753 00:45:37,720 --> 00:45:41,600 answers to the puzzle. And that's kind of just how it 754 00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:43,720 is, right? Like you can, you can get a ton 755 00:45:43,720 --> 00:45:47,040 of answers, especially if people are alive and they're willing to 756 00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:49,120 talk. But there's always, like you 757 00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:52,240 said, there's always something that pops up and you have to 758 00:45:52,240 --> 00:45:56,760 weigh the relationships in your life and if you're willing to 759 00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:00,400 put those at risk and just all of the things that you touched 760 00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:03,120 on. So you've really turned your 761 00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:05,880 experience into helping other people. 762 00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:11,640 Are you now seeing more of these DNA surprises and NP ES and your 763 00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:13,320 work? It's very. 764 00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:17,400 Interesting that my working with my colleague, it got a lot of 765 00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:21,000 the other people at my job interested in their heritage and 766 00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:22,960 their genealogy and their background. 767 00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:27,080 And I've had several people at work approach me and say my 768 00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:29,080 results are in, can you take a look at them? 769 00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:33,600 Because something's weird. And so I have helped several 770 00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:36,440 people figure out. A friend of mine at work is 771 00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:41,480 currently looking for 1/2 sister that is 18 years older than her. 772 00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:44,560 She was unaware that she had a sister that was 18 years older 773 00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:48,280 than her. And so with my help, she did the 774 00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:52,960 DNA test and we are now actively searching for perhaps sister who 775 00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:55,880 was placed for adoption. Well, I think it's. 776 00:46:55,880 --> 00:47:00,800 So beautiful that you are helping other people in these 777 00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:04,640 situations. And I can't imagine the level of 778 00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:06,840 empathy. Well, I guess I can cause I've 779 00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:10,600 been through it too, but you know, the, the level of empathy 780 00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:13,840 that you're able to provide because you've gone through 781 00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:17,080 these experiences and these emotions and had these questions 782 00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:20,160 come up. And I think, you know, there are 783 00:47:20,720 --> 00:47:24,720 wonderful people doing wonderful work in this space, helping 784 00:47:24,720 --> 00:47:27,480 people find their families. I think the fact that you are 785 00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:31,760 also an NPE is really impactful though, for people that are 786 00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:34,880 going through this experience. So thank you for the work that 787 00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:37,560 you're doing. I appreciate that. 788 00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:41,560 Yeah, now. I do want to touch on your 789 00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:45,680 podcast. So Doe is going to launch a 790 00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:53,200 podcast soon that's gonna dive more into the DNA surprise world 791 00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:56,520 and also the genealogical aspects of it. 792 00:47:56,520 --> 00:47:58,560 Is that right? Yes, that's correct. 793 00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:02,040 Can you tell us more about it? Yeah, so the. 794 00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:06,280 Podcast is going to be called Decoded Secrets of the family. 795 00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:08,600 The beginning of it is going to be I'm going to be having some 796 00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:11,200 of the people that I've helped. I'm going to be interviewing 797 00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:13,880 them and having them tell their story much like I'm doing today. 798 00:48:14,240 --> 00:48:18,880 And then sort of put in there the mix of then I found out who 799 00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:21,120 I really was and this is how I did it. 800 00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:25,160 This is who helped me, whether it was me or a search Angel or 801 00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:28,440 any number of people out there who have the ability and the 802 00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:31,200 skill to to help people find their truth. 803 00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:36,680 And it's seems like maybe all the stories might sound the same 804 00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:39,360 at some point. But once I started talking about 805 00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:42,760 my story and listening to other people's stories, I found 806 00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:45,560 there's commonality, but there's also some really huge 807 00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:49,200 differences in people's stories. There's always a unique part to 808 00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:52,920 it, always the gotcha moment that maybe no one was expecting. 809 00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:57,320 And so my hope is, is that people will who have had these 810 00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:02,520 DNA surprises and who are wanting help to look for their 811 00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:07,240 truth, that my podcast will help them do that and, and maybe 812 00:49:07,240 --> 00:49:10,640 they'll pay it forward as well. Yeah, that's amazing. 813 00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:14,880 I think the more people with the skill set that you have the 814 00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:17,680 better. I feel like that is on my bucket 815 00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:22,720 list is to learn more about this and Doe and I live in the same 816 00:49:22,720 --> 00:49:26,680 town so I might just be knocking on her door and asking for for 817 00:49:27,240 --> 00:49:29,720 some tutorials on how to walk through and do it. 818 00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:31,920 Well, it sounds like we could learn from each. 819 00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:34,800 Other because I had never done a podcast before. 820 00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:38,760 So perfect. Perfect what? 821 00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:43,680 Advice do you have for a parent who might be keeping adna 822 00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:47,240 surprise from their child? Well, my advice? 823 00:49:47,240 --> 00:49:52,640 Is probably hard advice, but you need to be honest with your 824 00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:55,760 child. The devastation that comes from 825 00:49:55,760 --> 00:50:01,600 finding it out any other way is really destabilizing. 826 00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:06,160 It really causes people to question their whole identity, 827 00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:09,680 their whole life. Woulda coulda shoulda you know 828 00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:12,680 me with my not so great relationship with my birth 829 00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:15,160 certificate father. Of course those questions have 830 00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:17,040 come up. What would my life have been 831 00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:18,680 like if this other man had raised me? 832 00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:20,680 What things would have been better? 833 00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:22,080 What things might have been worse? 834 00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:25,640 You know, so be honest and give them the information that 835 00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:27,200 they're asking for that they need. 836 00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:31,240 Because finding it out from ancestry.com or finding it out 837 00:50:31,240 --> 00:50:36,800 from a a relative who might know who, you know, gets loose lipped 838 00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:40,640 or this is not the way that somebody should find out that 839 00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:43,280 maybe they don't have the whole truth about who they are. 840 00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:48,560 Thank you for sharing. That and what advice do you have 841 00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:51,720 for someone who just uncovered ADNA? 842 00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:55,560 Surprise. Like being an NPE first thing. 843 00:50:55,560 --> 00:51:00,080 Is find somebody you can talk to internalizing how you're feeling 844 00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:04,520 is going to chew you up and spit you out needing to find somebody 845 00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:08,040 you can talk with not even necessarily or has any type of 846 00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:11,560 counseling expertise or even with DNA surprises. 847 00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:14,600 Does someone who's you trust, who can listen to what you're 848 00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:17,520 saying, who can help give you sort of like that same advice my 849 00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:20,800 husband gave me help sort of simplify it, help you see the 850 00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:24,720 forest through the trees. What is it exactly I'm upset 851 00:51:24,720 --> 00:51:26,680 about, and what is it that I want to know? 852 00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:31,480 And sometimes friends, people can help you tease out what it 853 00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:34,320 is you're feeling and what it is you need to know. 854 00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:39,200 And from there, maybe find a good counselor and find somebody 855 00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:42,600 that knows how to do genetic genealogy who can help you 856 00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:45,840 figure it out. Doe, thank you so much. 857 00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:50,080 For coming on the podcast and sharing your story, I love 858 00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:55,640 talking to people who have taken this very difficult experience 859 00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:59,760 and then used their own experience to help others. 860 00:51:59,960 --> 00:52:02,840 It's so inspiring to hear the work that you're doing. 861 00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:08,040 And for anyone who's listening, I will be sure to put Doe's new 862 00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:12,000 podcast in the show notes when it launches. 863 00:52:12,240 --> 00:52:15,200 Thanks again for joining me. I appreciate. 864 00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:17,760 It thank you. Thanks again to Doe for. 865 00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:22,360 Sharing her story and be on the lookout for her podcast, Decoded 866 00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:25,040 Secrets of the Family, coming out soon. 867 00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:29,480 If you have adna surprise that you'd like to share, submit your 868 00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:34,240 story at dnasurprises.com and remember to join me over on 869 00:52:34,240 --> 00:52:39,080 Patreon for AD free listening, early access to episodes and so 870 00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:41,240 much more. Until next time. 871 00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:46,800 This episode of. DNA Surprises was hosted, 872 00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:50,800 produced and edited by me Alexis Ourselt. 873 00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:55,600 It was mixed and mastered by Josh Ourselt of Siren Recording 874 00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:56,360 Studios.