1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,640 The problem with the personal narrative disruption is you 2 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:07,800 start making up storylines and you start trying to put a puzzle 3 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:11,080 together, but there's so many missing pieces. 4 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:17,680 I have no idea what I'm creating and if my mind is creating 5 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:19,800 things that are just so off base. 6 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:24,680 So I'm trying to put my narrative back together but I'm 7 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:27,080 creating it from a lot of missing pieces. 8 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:29,360 It's like trying to build a house but I don't have a strong 9 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:33,400 enough foundation to hold up any wall or any theory. 10 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:38,040 Welcome to DNA Surprises, a podcast that delves into the 11 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:40,680 world of unexpected DNA discoveries. 12 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:47,200 I'm your host, Alexis ourselves. In July 2021, my life took a 13 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:52,080 surprising turn when I found out that I'm an NPE, a person who 14 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:54,880 has experienced a non paternal event. 15 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:59,440 In other words, my biological father isn't who I thought he 16 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,440 was. Join me as we explore the 17 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:07,520 stories of NP, ES, adoptees and donor conceived people and their 18 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:10,320 families. Get ready to unravel the 19 00:01:10,320 --> 00:01:14,480 astonishing journeys that begin with a simple DNA test. 20 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:21,520 This is DNA surprises. Much like life, DNA surprises 21 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:23,880 are rarely tied up in a perfect bow. 22 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:28,560 We don't get answers to all of the questions we have, and it's 23 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:32,360 up to us to make peace with that or keep digging. 24 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,680 In this week's episode, Angie shares how she uncovered that 25 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:40,520 she has a different biological father than her four sisters. 26 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:44,640 She details her effort to find the truth when most of the 27 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:48,640 people with answers have passed and how she's navigating that 28 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:51,760 uncertainty. Thank you for sharing your 29 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:56,960 story, Angie. I'm Angie and I'm 60 and I live 30 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:04,120 in Charlotte. In 2015, I took 23andMe. 31 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:07,840 A friend of mine was like, hey, have you heard of 23? 32 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:11,160 Me, my family and I, we just did it and it gives you a lot of 33 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:13,040 doubt about your health, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 34 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:15,360 And I was like, oh, I've seen those commercials. 35 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:17,000 I don't know if I want to do that. 36 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:19,400 What do you think? And then they took it and I 37 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:22,000 said, what do you think? Did you get good information? 38 00:02:22,920 --> 00:02:28,480 And so I did it. I took it and I got the results 39 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:33,840 back and it said I was 49% Ashkenazi Jewish. 40 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:39,160 And there was no doubt in my mind that it was wrong. 41 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:42,280 I was like, oh, I knew these things were fake. 42 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:44,720 I knew they were all just a hype. 43 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:49,040 I knew this was a money making thing, so my first thought was 44 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:52,480 just that it was a joke that everybody was buying into this 45 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:55,920 scam. My grandma always used to say 46 00:02:56,640 --> 00:02:59,560 we're German, Irish and Dutch. It doesn't amount to much. 47 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:01,840 That was like her cute little song about it. 48 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:08,640 And then I understood that my dad's side was also German. 49 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:12,480 Didn't know as much about that side because my parents were 50 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:17,640 divorced. And so I was like, yes, no, we 51 00:03:17,640 --> 00:03:20,160 have no Jewish, you know, ancestry. 52 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:24,360 So I put it away. I didn't think anything of it. 53 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:26,560 I truly didn't. One of my sisters has always 54 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:28,720 told me I'm a great compartmentalizer. 55 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:32,680 And I realized that I'm not just a, a good compartmentalizer. 56 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:36,560 I'm almost an expert at it, which is ironic because I teach 57 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:40,040 that there is no such thing, that we can pretend that we're 58 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:43,120 compartmentalizing, but we're really not because it sort of 59 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:46,640 seeps in like a slow leak in your shower and it's always 60 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:49,800 there. But I think in this situation, 61 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:52,200 it really didn't 'cause I really didn't believe it. 62 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,720 So I really don't think it had any impact on my emotional 63 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:57,760 health 'cause I really, truly thought it was a joke. 64 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:05,000 So Fast forward a few years and I have four sisters and one of 65 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:10,800 them called me one day and said, Angie, have you ever taken 23 in 66 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:14,720 me? And I was like, OK, trace the 67 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:18,320 gig. Is that like, yes, like, why are 68 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:22,160 you asking? She said, well, my daughter's 69 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:25,360 took it. I don't know how to say this. 70 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:30,520 And I said, well, just tries to say it, like kind of come out 71 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:32,360 with it. And I could feel my heart racing 72 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:39,160 then and I could feel me starting to realize that just 73 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:46,040 that awareness, that first glimmer of Oh my God, like, wait 74 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:51,080 a minute. So I said So what it say she's 75 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:53,960 like it said like you're AI can't remember it might have 76 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:57,760 been like a first cousin or something or can't remember what 77 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:02,480 it called me and she goes. But here's the deal. 78 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:05,640 I'm testing too. They bought me a kit. 79 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:08,440 I had a lot of thoughts coming in all at once. 80 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:14,040 And one of them was oh, so a it might be true. 81 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:21,480 And BI felt almost the trade isn't the right word, but it 82 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:24,040 felt like now my sister was gonna test 'cause everybody was 83 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:26,840 curious. It was almost like I was the, 84 00:05:27,840 --> 00:05:30,960 the test tube and now we needed to like test all the other test 85 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:35,840 tubes and we needed to see it was more out of like morbid 86 00:05:35,840 --> 00:05:39,720 curiosity than concern. Not that my sister wasn't 87 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:43,960 concerned, but it, it felt to me like, oh, so now we're all going 88 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:45,520 to test 'cause now we all want to know. 89 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:48,320 So I got the impression that her daughters were pushing her to 90 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:51,320 test because they wanted, they wanted the goods. 91 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:55,760 And I don't mean that in any, I'm not saying that was true, 92 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:59,760 but it was kind of like it's that family thing where it's 93 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:03,560 juicy. And so you kind of want to know 94 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:08,440 what the story is. Were you wanting her to test? 95 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,320 Were you hoping to get more answers at that point? 96 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:15,480 Yeah, then I was, because then I opened my computer and I was 97 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:20,080 like, so I said, OK, Trace. And she goes it, it takes a 98 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:21,360 while. And I was like, I know, 99 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:26,840 admittedly I was checking my computer probably daily. 100 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:32,000 And I remember that day I opened my computer before I even got 101 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:35,080 her call and it said half sister. 102 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:40,920 And I just remember thinking Ouch, Ouch, Ouch. 103 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:45,560 But almost like on the verge of an emotional collapse and then 104 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:51,840 on the verge of I am numb. And then within minutes my phone 105 00:06:51,840 --> 00:06:55,440 rang and I said, you don't have to tell me. 106 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:57,840 I already saw it. What did she say? 107 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:00,480 I'm sorry, Angie, I really don't know what to say. 108 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:03,200 And then she said, it doesn't matter. 109 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:08,640 You're my sister no matter what. And then I said it, but it does 110 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:09,840 matter. That's the thing. 111 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:12,200 It might not matter to you. And she said that's not what I 112 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:14,040 mean. And I was like, and I know I 113 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:16,960 wasn't being fair, you know, I was like, damn it, it does 114 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:18,200 matter. OK. 115 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:22,400 So a friend of mine calls it a personal narrative disruption, 116 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:26,000 and I call it a soccer punch, Right. 117 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:29,520 A personal narrative disruption. I'm like, yeah, Kelly, that's a 118 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:31,080 nice way of saying a sucker punch. 119 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:37,280 So I let it pause for a minute, and I went back to where most of 120 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:40,360 my sisters live. And for Mother's Day, I bought 121 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:44,600 them all a kit. And I said spit. 122 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:48,600 And two of them were like, I'm not doing that. 123 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:52,200 And I go, yes, you are. And we got into like a sister 124 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:55,080 disagreement. And I said, and my own sister 125 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:57,080 was like, I don't want to do it. Then I want my information out 126 00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:59,040 there. And I said, it's not about you. 127 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:01,400 And she goes, well, how is it about you? 128 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:05,040 And I go, it's about me because apparently I'm the outlier, I'm 129 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:07,280 the bastard child. And I want to know, am I the 130 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:09,680 only one? And she goes, well, I don't want 131 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,320 to know. And I said, I don't care. 132 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:14,680 I want to know. And the only way I'm going to 133 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:18,720 know if I'm the only outlier is if you guys do it, do it for me. 134 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:21,400 So we went back and forth, back and forth. 135 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:25,320 And finally I was like, I'm not leaving here until you both 136 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:28,520 spit. And so they did. 137 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:31,240 And then my one sister was like, I'll turn it in. 138 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:36,120 They go, uh, uh, he goes, Oh my God, you don't even trust me. 139 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:40,960 And I go, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying I bought the 140 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:43,600 kids. I'm turning them in. 141 00:08:44,039 --> 00:08:49,200 So at this point your sisters all know that this has happened. 142 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:52,360 And what is the fair reaction to this? 143 00:08:52,560 --> 00:08:56,760 You know how families are like the telephone tree and one 144 00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:59,840 person knows and the next thing you know, 50 people know? 145 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:04,560 I'm very close to my sisters, but I was disappointed in some 146 00:09:04,560 --> 00:09:08,440 of the theories. So they start conjecturing about 147 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:11,440 what may have happened. So it turned out that, you know, 148 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:14,520 my dad wasn't my dad. So it went from everything from 149 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:16,640 rape. Mom was might have been raped 150 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:21,200 and I was like, pause that thought and ask yourself what 151 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:23,800 that might feel like from where I'm sitting. 152 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:28,040 I realize you're protecting Mom and you don't want me to think 153 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:35,680 that this side or the other, but that's about as far South and 154 00:09:35,680 --> 00:09:39,720 ugly. And it makes me feel not just 155 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:44,200 like I'm the bastard child, but I am because I did everything I 156 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:46,560 went back to. Wait, when was Roe V Wade 157 00:09:46,560 --> 00:09:47,520 passed? Oh my God. 158 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:49,560 Oh my God. She couldn't have had an 159 00:09:49,560 --> 00:09:52,280 abortion, you know, So my mind went everywhere. 160 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:56,200 What if she didn't want me? Like abortion wasn't legal. 161 00:09:56,880 --> 00:10:00,760 And then spin, spin, spin. What if she didn't want me? 162 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:02,520 What if? What if she tried to get an 163 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:05,240 abortion? What if she was too afraid to do 164 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:07,000 an abortion? What if, what if, what if? 165 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:10,760 And so then when they came up with the rape conjecture, I was 166 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:14,880 like, don't go there. Don't make me that person that 167 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:19,640 came from a trauma. I don't want to be a trauma 168 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:23,360 baby. And where are you in birth order 169 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:26,080 compared to your sisters? The youngest. 170 00:10:26,560 --> 00:10:31,520 And were your parents married at the time that you were born? 171 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:38,360 So yes, so they got divorced when I was about 1 and I said to 172 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,600 my sisters, when all this was happening and there's all these 173 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,960 theories flying around and there were other ones that were not 174 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:51,800 any prettier, I said to them, do any of you remember sitting at 175 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:54,000 the table? I said I was either in high 176 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,160 school or college. And we used to. 177 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:58,560 We were all very, very, very close. 178 00:10:58,560 --> 00:11:00,320 My mom raised 5 girls on her own. 179 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:05,280 So we were very, very close. There was a lot of scarcity. 180 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:08,480 You know, my dad that I thought was my dad didn't play child 181 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:10,480 support. So there's a lot of scarcity. 182 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:13,480 There was probably what you could fairly call trauma 183 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:15,680 bonding. You know, where you're in the 184 00:11:15,680 --> 00:11:19,960 single parent household. Back in the 60s, women weren't 185 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:23,000 supposed to be single. Not a lot of money. 186 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:25,200 Keep it behind closed doors, right? 187 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:27,200 We're going to be fine. We just stick together. 188 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:30,120 I said to them, don't you remember? 189 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:32,280 I was either in high school or college and we were having one 190 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:34,600 of our excuses to get together 'cause like we would get 191 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:36,480 together, you know, if the sun came up. 192 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:39,440 And we were just always gathering together, even as 193 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:42,280 adults. And I said, I remember sitting 194 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:44,920 there and somebody said something that never seemed to 195 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:49,760 fit the math. And I said, is dad really my 196 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:52,440 dad? And I said, and you guys got 197 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:54,680 quiet. We were very protective of my 198 00:11:54,680 --> 00:11:57,760 mom. She was our savior. 199 00:11:57,760 --> 00:11:59,560 Without her, we would have been on the streets. 200 00:11:59,560 --> 00:12:02,840 We went in foster care like we were protective of her. 201 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:06,200 Again, a little bit of trauma bonding, but it got quiet as a 202 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:09,040 church mouse. And everybody looked at me like 203 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:13,560 I had just said the most egregious thing I could have 204 00:12:13,560 --> 00:12:16,240 said to our mom. And none of them claimed they 205 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:19,120 remember that. And I said it was either college 206 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:22,480 or high school. And I said my take away was you 207 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:24,480 guys got quiet for one of two reasons. 208 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:28,760 Either you all knew something and no one was going to pass up 209 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:33,880 or you really thought that whatever, just my assumption, if 210 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:36,680 you will, was very egregious and insulting to mom. 211 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:41,560 And I said, and I remember all that night spinning whether it 212 00:12:41,560 --> 00:12:44,600 was high school or college and thinking So what is it? 213 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:50,160 Was what I said so egregious and offensive to mom, or do they all 214 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:51,880 know something and they're not going to tell me? 215 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:54,200 And none of them claimed to remember that. 216 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:55,680 They're all like, I don't remember that. 217 00:12:55,680 --> 00:12:58,120 I don't remember that. And they're like, what did mom 218 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:00,640 do? I said, I really don't remember. 219 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:02,280 I just remember. She looked shocked. 220 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:06,040 And I remember feeling guilty, like I had hurt her feelings. 221 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:08,920 And then I remember she got up and made an excuse to go in the 222 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:12,240 into the kitchen. And they're like, I don't 223 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:14,040 remember that at all. And you see, I have no memory of 224 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:17,960 that whatsoever. Do you believe that your sisters 225 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:21,400 were surprised by this information, or do you think 226 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:23,800 that they knew something even if they pushed it out of their 227 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:26,080 mind? I believe they were surprised, 228 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:31,320 but some of the other, I guess I like your word, conjectures. 229 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:33,840 Their suspicions, their theories. 230 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:41,240 My oldest sister then told me a story and I was like, why would 231 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,600 you have never told me that? I just didn't think anything of 232 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:47,240 it. I was only 8 1/2 or 9 or 10 or 233 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:48,160 whatever. I was young. 234 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:53,080 I was young, I was young. It was about a man and what She 235 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:59,800 remembers him coming over to the house and now she wonders if 236 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:01,840 that was him. Then she started speculating. 237 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:05,160 Maybe it was this. Maybe the because after my mom 238 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:07,240 and dad got divorced, like I said it was only like 1. 239 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:11,200 My mom you know did a fair amount of dating but never ever 240 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:13,920 ever got remarried. Never had a live in like always 241 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:17,520 said she would never trust a man coming into a home with five 242 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:20,320 little girls. She was very protective of us. 243 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:24,320 Like she did not trust another man helping to raise her 244 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:26,360 children. Because I think my mom had 245 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:32,200 enough life experience to know in her mind what could happen if 246 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:35,840 she was to bring the wrong man into the home, you know, So she 247 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,400 was very protective of us. But she did do a fair amount of 248 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:39,640 dating. So then they all started 249 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:41,120 speculating about this man or this man. 250 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:42,840 And those speculations were fine. 251 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:46,000 But there's another part to the story. 252 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:49,960 So when my oldest sister said she remembers a man coming over, 253 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:52,480 the way I remember her telling me was that a man came over and 254 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:55,960 said, I want to see the baby. And she said she could tell even 255 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:58,120 at a young age that my mom did not want him there. 256 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:01,480 And then when I asked her like a year ago, she's like, that's not 257 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:03,520 what I said, but that there was a man. 258 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:08,200 And he did have an accent. And like, maybe he was from, you 259 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:11,960 know, Poland or Romania, and he had a very strong accent. 260 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:15,760 And I thought she remembered saying that he wanted to see the 261 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,720 baby. But again, contextually, it 262 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:20,720 meant nothing to her. She just could tell that he 263 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:24,880 wasn't a man that mom wanted to see, unlike other dates that 264 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:28,120 might show up and my mom would be happy to go out on a date, if 265 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:32,640 you will. And then my mom passed. 266 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:37,640 My mom got dementia. So when all this came out. 267 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:39,880 So by the way, the other two sisters spit. 268 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:43,200 They come in and they're all half sisters. 269 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:47,080 And then my other sister took Ancestry and so she had not 270 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:49,560 taken 23 me. So then I bought an Ancestry 271 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:51,880 kit. Damn it, I wanted another 272 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:53,600 outlier. OK, I don't know. 273 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:55,000 I want to be the only bastard child. 274 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:57,720 They're all full siblings with each other. 275 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:00,880 They. Are and so that was the full on 276 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:05,240 Angie's gonna have an emotional meltdown or she's gonna pack it 277 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:07,600 away. So far I haven't had that 278 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:10,160 emotional meltdown. Perhaps it would be good for me. 279 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:14,200 I'm really busy packing, which goes against what I help my 280 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:18,720 clients with. And so two of them, after all 281 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:22,680 this happened and there's all this speculation about all the 282 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:25,280 horrible things, you know, maybe it's just me and this man or 283 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:27,680 this man came and said I want to see the baby or maybe she was 284 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:30,200 raped and all this is going on. And I'm like, stop the noise. 285 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:32,520 Stop the noise, you're not helping me. 286 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:36,320 Then two of them said that my mom made a comment when she was 287 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:40,280 sick. My one sister said that she said 288 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:43,880 that my mom was crying one day and she was very confused. 289 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:47,720 And if you've ever seen dementia, you know that there's 290 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:49,720 hallucinations. There can be. 291 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:53,160 You know, the brain does crazy things, and sometimes they go 292 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:56,160 way back and you don't know what's true and what's not. 293 00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:00,160 Or sometimes they say things about you and you go, wow, is 294 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:02,280 that what she always thought, you know? 295 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:06,319 Like. Like my one sister said that one 296 00:17:06,319 --> 00:17:10,960 day my mom started crying and said she has a different mom. 297 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:14,680 And my sister kept saying no, mom, no, no, no, no, we're all 298 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:18,520 your daughters. No, no, she has a different mom. 299 00:17:18,839 --> 00:17:21,040 And she said my mom was so frustrated. 300 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:24,079 Like, listen to me, you're not listening to me. 301 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:28,319 And my sister was like, mom, we're all your daughters. 302 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:32,800 And I was like, Laurie, why didn't you ever tell me that? 303 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:36,480 But again, she's like, no, that's, that's just in 304 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,080 contextually. Mom said a lot of stuff that we 305 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:43,400 didn't think anything up, but the other one that she said, and 306 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:48,800 this one was to my other sister, my mom would get frustrated. 307 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:51,320 The disease can be very frustrating and they can become 308 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:54,960 very agitated and they can lash out because they've lost their 309 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:57,440 sense of personal autonomy and control. 310 00:17:57,720 --> 00:17:59,720 And that's one of our greatest human fears. 311 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:01,880 We all want to be autonomous humans. 312 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:05,040 We don't want somebody to tell us what to do, especially the 313 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:08,600 people that we raised. So one of my sisters was over 314 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:11,600 there doing the caregiving that day and I must have made my mom 315 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:13,120 mad. Usually the person who would 316 00:18:13,120 --> 00:18:15,760 come over to help would make her mad 'cause she didn't want help. 317 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:17,720 So I think I might have been on my way. 318 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:23,920 And my sister said that my mom said she's got a different dad 319 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:28,360 and my sister goes what mom and my mom goes she has a different 320 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:31,640 dad. And my sister said she said it 321 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:35,160 like spicy mom, like the mom that we don't know, that became 322 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:37,640 spicy mom. And she goes and I was like, 323 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:40,000 mom, she does not have a different dad. 324 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,600 We all have the same dad. You know, we know who our dad is 325 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:47,040 and you're our mom. So to one of them, she said 326 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:49,320 somebody has a different mom 'cause she got confused. 327 00:18:49,360 --> 00:18:51,440 And then to the other one, she had said she has a different 328 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:54,000 dad. But the whole thing of that 329 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,280 story isn't necessarily about who said what. 330 00:18:57,600 --> 00:18:59,840 The whole thing was. It made it clear to me that she 331 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:03,880 did know. Had she passed by the time you 332 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:06,240 took your test? OK. 333 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:10,840 And so had my dad. That's not my dad. 334 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:13,880 OK, so you couldn't go there to ask questions? 335 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:19,520 That was probably the hardest part because I could resolve it 336 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:22,680 in my mind by saying she might have suspected but didn't know. 337 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:29,040 But the fact that she brought it up to two of them when she was 338 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:33,880 sick, when the filters are down, made me realize she, she knew. 339 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:37,720 And I was like, oh ow, ow, ow, she knew. 340 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:42,560 Describe how that felt. Sometimes I feel really sorry 341 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:47,320 for her because secrets are really, really they're not 342 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:52,920 healthy. Secrets aren't healthy. 343 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:59,480 And when we hold secrets, we're kind of holding trauma. 344 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,240 And when we hold trauma, we're not releasing it. 345 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:07,920 And so that's a big hold to die with the secret. 346 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:13,960 And so sometimes I feel really sorry for her that she had to 347 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:17,080 hold that secret. And sometimes I feel very, very 348 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:25,920 protective of her because on an intellectual level, as a mom, I 349 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:29,200 can go. I get it. 350 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:33,920 You got five daughters. Your whole world is raising 351 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:36,560 them. Your whole world is keeping a 352 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:41,200 roof over their head. Again, scarcity was very big, 353 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:44,360 very powerful day-to-day, month to month. 354 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:50,320 It was never enough. Not enough money, not enough 355 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:52,840 food, not enough anything. It was the 60s. 356 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:55,680 There was no child support. Women couldn't even get their 357 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:57,360 own checking account back then, right? 358 00:20:57,360 --> 00:21:01,240 Like Married With, you know, like it was, it was real. 359 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:04,600 And so teachers didn't like us because we were like the bastard 360 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:08,280 children who didn't have a dad. You know, my mom worked nonstop. 361 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:11,520 And so part of me is like, oh, Candy. 362 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:15,840 I have so much empathy for her. A, she had to carry that story 363 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:17,920 her whole life. It probably did not serve her 364 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:21,760 with her health. But B, what would her choice 365 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:27,440 have been to tell the kid that she's the outlier? 366 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:33,880 So every holiday, potentially she's got to go with her dad, 367 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,440 while the other four get to be with mom and they get to have 368 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:42,320 this wonderful holiday. So then I got to be the kid 369 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,520 who's not a part of them. And I've got to grow up knowing 370 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:47,720 that that I'm the one who has a different dad. 371 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:52,720 I'm the one who doesn't belong. I'm the one who what goes and 372 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:55,160 celebrates Hanukkah while they celebrate Christmas. 373 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:59,560 I'm the one who she has to share time with. 374 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,280 But she gets the rest of us to herself. 375 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:08,200 After your parents, your birth certificate, father and your mom 376 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:12,880 divorced he was he completely out of your lives at that point? 377 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:20,720 No, there's some feelings about that too because he was in and 378 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,360 out. So my dad went overseas for 379 00:22:23,360 --> 00:22:28,680 about 8 years for the military and he got remarried over there. 380 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:32,720 Two of my oldest sisters went to live with him because my mom 381 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:35,560 wanted them to have an opportunity to be abroad and she 382 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:37,160 knew that that was not financially going to be 383 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:38,400 something she could ever provide. 384 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,520 And he had kind of offered OK, like basically like peace 385 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:43,520 offering. OK, I never pay Charles Ford, 386 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:46,640 but I'll take a couple of them. All right, send them over. 387 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:48,800 And so they went over. They had a great time. 388 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:50,800 They were in high school. They had such wonderful 389 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:52,480 memories. They got with the wife, 390 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:54,520 graduated over there, they had great memories. 391 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:55,960 They was good. Good for them. 392 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:57,880 Like it was great opportunity really was. 393 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:05,320 And then the next sister in line a couple years later, he said, 394 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:09,480 OK, I'll take a couple more. So there's a couple more. 395 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:15,520 Over. And so the next sister was 16 at 396 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,560 the time and she had a boyfriend and she was like, I'm not going. 397 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,880 And then the one under her was like, I'm definitely not going. 398 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,960 And then I was in like 6th grade, I'll go, but I was only 399 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,040 6th grade. So we lasted like 6 months. 400 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,600 And at that time you could tell my dad's second marriage was 401 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:33,960 kind of on the rocks. It was a lot of strife there. 402 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:39,440 So we went overseas for like 6 months with him and but still we 403 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:41,520 weren't like close. Like he used to scared that 404 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,680 Jesus out of me. Like he was just a harsh man, 405 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:47,840 not physical harsh. She was just a harsh man. 406 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:52,240 Like if he said eat your dinner, like you ate your dinner right, 407 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,720 you didn't cross him. We didn't know him. 408 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,320 So there was never any pushing at boundaries because you don't 409 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:00,760 really know this man. He's been in our lives, been 410 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,560 hourly in our lives. Like he would pick us up when we 411 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,720 were growing up once in a great while, like on a Sunday, and 412 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,160 he'd take us to my grandmother's house and he had a bunch of 413 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:13,040 brothers and they'd all like smoke and watch the the cubbies. 414 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,440 And then the kids would all run around and play at my 415 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,640 grandmother's house. So we spent some time with him 416 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:22,360 and I went over there in 6th grade and and then when I went 417 00:24:22,360 --> 00:24:29,240 to go away to college, I had a lunch with him and something was 418 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,800 said in that lunch. And I remember thinking, what do 419 00:24:33,120 --> 00:24:37,080 you mean by that? And, and I'm not sure I want to 420 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:41,160 unpack that right now because it it's more layered, but he said. 421 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:47,760 Something. And it made me go, and I look 422 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:52,360 back on that now and they go, oh, I wonder if, you know, the 423 00:24:52,360 --> 00:24:56,080 problem with the personal narrative disruption is you 424 00:24:56,080 --> 00:25:01,240 start making up storylines and you start trying to put a puzzle 425 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,600 together. But there's so many missing 426 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:09,880 pieces. I have no idea what I'm creating 427 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:14,840 and if my mind is creating things that are just so off 428 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,360 base. So I'm trying to put my 429 00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:21,400 narrative back together, but I'm creating it from a lot of 430 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,400 missing pieces. It's like trying to build a 431 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:27,040 house but I don't have a strong enough foundation to hold up any 432 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:31,440 wall or any theory. So what he said and the reason I 433 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,720 don't want to pack it is it kind of had no meaning to this 434 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,640 whatsoever that I'm giving it meaning. 435 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,440 Or it could have, I don't know. Yeah, it's in hindsight. 436 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:45,520 We look back at all these moments and try to think, was 437 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:47,720 that an opportunity? Was he trying to tell me 438 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:49,000 something? Was that a hint? 439 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:53,280 Totally, totally. I think that's something that I 440 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:57,080 hear over and over again. And you're not alone in that is 441 00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:01,680 the the trying to make sense of just every little moment and 442 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,240 reflecting and looking back at all the little clues. 443 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:09,280 And yes, that really resonates. I'm glad I'm not the only one 444 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,280 that it. And it's funny, 'cause when he 445 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:18,840 said it, whether it was around the time that I said is dad, my 446 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:24,600 dad, whether that made me pause more, whatever the case, I never 447 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:28,440 ever forgot it. And when this happened, it 448 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:35,280 seemed like it definitely could have held some meaning. 449 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:42,600 But then what I will say is the meaning then would be that he 450 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:46,160 knew too. And I think that's what really 451 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:53,640 shocked me because if he knew, why was he willing to play 452 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,000 along? What happened? 453 00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,400 You know, what happened, that he was willing to play along 454 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,640 because he was a man's man. Like this is men in the 60s. 455 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:06,720 Like I said, he and all his brothers were divorced. 456 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:11,080 They were on wife number 2. They were, you know, Rico 457 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:12,800 Suave's like they, you know what I mean? 458 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:17,520 Like they were just, oh, the ego was all there and the, you know, 459 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:20,360 I'm hot and you're not kind of saying, you know, back in. 460 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,080 And I was like, why would he have played along? 461 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:32,880 Because I guess I just would have thought that he wouldn't. 462 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,400 The way I understand it is they were ultimately divorced and I 463 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,760 was like 1, but he was gone years before that. 464 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:40,880 He was in and out. He was having affair after 465 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:45,560 affair after affair. So my theory, the way that I 466 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:49,080 resolved it was Stella got out and got her groove back one 467 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,680 night. Stella was like, you've been 468 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:57,240 doing this for years. I'm hot too, 'cause my mom was 469 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:01,200 very, very, very attractive. Very attractive. 470 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,000 And I was like, good. She went out one night and 471 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:08,200 thought I can do it. And that was my theory. 472 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,600 I liked that theory. Stella got her group back. 473 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,600 Yes. Stella wanted to be a man. 474 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,520 Stella was like, I'm tired of men having all the fun. 475 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,760 You're out there sleeping with everybody who will sleep with 476 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,320 you. How about I get a chance? 477 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:28,800 And then my Part B of that theory is she gets pregnant, but 478 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,720 he's in and out. And I know she loved him deeply 479 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,400 and did not want it to end. I know she did. 480 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:41,960 So my theory is he's in and out. She's not sure but she suspects. 481 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:47,360 Uh oh but she's not really sure. But then when all that was said 482 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:51,160 to my sisters I was like OK she is sure, she does know. 483 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,960 Then I look back at what he said and I go I think he might have 484 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,040 known. And then I go, shit, there goes 485 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:03,760 my theory. Like, but maybe he did know, but 486 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:07,600 he just said OK. Like in fairness, I've been out 487 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:11,200 doing this for years, let's not do this to her. 488 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,400 And also, if you think about men back then and the ego in the 489 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:19,400 whole it's a man's world and you can't even have a checkbook. 490 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:23,200 If you think about men back then, it probably would have 491 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:27,320 held his ego more intact to put his name on my birth certificate 492 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:29,440 than to think his wife was doing what he was doing. 493 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,000 Right. Yeah, that's totally plausible. 494 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,840 If there was any ego to, it would have been more names going 495 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:40,560 on there because I'm not going to let you tell the world that 496 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:44,080 you did what I'm doing. Exactly. 497 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,680 Yeah, I, I don't know. I just know that he didn't play 498 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:49,280 child support. And then there was a little bit 499 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,000 of guilt there, too. Like, is that what happened? 500 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,480 Did he not pay because he was like, OK, this is theory. 501 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,960 I'm going to post this story for you, OK? 502 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,640 You're a man in the 60s. You got a big echo, right? 503 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:04,440 You've been out playing the field. 504 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,200 Now, your wife might have done what you did again. 505 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:09,920 No, no, no, no. That's not going to look good at 506 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:11,560 the bowling alley with all your friends. 507 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:14,240 You got to say face. You got to put your name on the 508 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,680 birth certificate because you don't want your buddies to know 509 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:19,880 that your wife is what you're doing. 510 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:24,560 And the other part of the theory is, but it also is an excuse to 511 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:28,240 say I'm not paying child support. 512 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,800 Look what you did. So all of a sudden, it's like 513 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:34,760 flipping the script. But then there was a little bit 514 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,760 of guilt, like, am I the reason she never got child support? 515 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,640 Like, was he able to flip the script and point the finger at 516 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,280 her and be like, yeah, I'm not the only one who did it. 517 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:49,560 Look what you did. But my story is she kind of had 518 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,920 a right to do it because he was doing it for so long, for so 519 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:56,720 many years, and she loved him and he was not being a good 520 00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,400 husband. OK, so you've, you kind of 521 00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:03,000 landed on a theory that maybe makes sense. 522 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:07,320 It does make sense. You aren't necessarily going to 523 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:11,640 know. Is there anyone in your story 524 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,640 who is still alive that you can talk to? 525 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:20,600 Like aunts or uncles or cousins that may have heard gossip or 526 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:24,200 anything like that. So there's some stuff that 527 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,880 happens in this world that you can't make up because it's so 528 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,320 darn ironic. So I can tell none of my four 529 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:35,200 sisters now, right? And I again, the stuff they were 530 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:38,000 coming up with was just noise and it was toxic noise and it 531 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:42,520 was causing me more disruption to my emotional health. 532 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,600 So I had one aunt who was alive, but my mom was not close to her. 533 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:48,280 My mom had a brother and a sister. 534 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:50,560 The brother's been passed for years. 535 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,760 My mom and my quote dad were already passed. 536 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,840 So I said to my sister, I'm going to call mom's sister. 537 00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:00,040 And my sister was like Angie, she's not going to know 538 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:01,360 anything. They weren't close at all. 539 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,280 She never told her anything. I was like yes, fine, that's 540 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:09,320 fine. So I call my brother-in-law 541 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,720 because I was like, hey, do you have her latest number? 542 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,040 And he goes, it is so weird that you called. 543 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:18,920 And I go, why? And he goes, she passed away 544 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:23,200 last night. I go like, are you fucking 545 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,760 kidding me? And he goes, why? 546 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:28,720 Like none of us were really close to her. 547 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,200 And I go, forget it, Just forget it. 548 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,640 So I call my sister and I had like, a serious meltdown. 549 00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,480 And I was like, shrieking. And I was like, what is it? 550 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:41,160 The, the, the minute I get close to something, she goes, it's OK. 551 00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,160 She did, she wasn't going to know anything. 552 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,600 And I said, but it's just so ironic. 553 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,160 I finally get the courage to call her and she literally 554 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:51,640 passed away the night before. And she was like super old. 555 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:57,000 So I called her daughter and I was like, hey, here's the deal. 556 00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:01,080 And her daughter said, Oh my gosh, Angie, I don't have words. 557 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:04,440 I'm, I'm truly shocked she goes, no, I, I guarantee you my mom 558 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:06,840 didn't know. And she's like, I loved your mom 559 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,280 so much like your mom loved you guys. 560 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:11,360 I just never would have expected that. 561 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:16,600 So that weren't that one. So we're going through our like 562 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:22,400 mental Rolodex and I said, I'm going to call mom's best friend. 563 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:26,360 She's still alive. So I called her one night. 564 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,920 She claimed on her life she didn't know anything. 565 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,200 She said I met your mom when you were four. 566 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:36,600 We met at a department store. We worked at Turnstile together. 567 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,200 You were already like 4. Your mom never said anything. 568 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:42,640 She said. I swear, Angie, she never said a 569 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:44,960 word. And she goes. 570 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,920 I feel like she would have told me, but your mom was pretty 571 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,440 private. Did you reach out to anyone else 572 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:55,640 trying to get clues or was her best friend your last stop in 573 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:59,240 people in her life? No, there's one more. 574 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:06,040 So my oldest daughter was very interested when all this first 575 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,480 happened. So she does a lot of digging 576 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,040 initially. She gets very invested in it for 577 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:14,679 a short period of time and she makes a treat and she gets it 578 00:34:14,679 --> 00:34:18,520 down and she's like, she could tell the grandparents, she could 579 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:21,560 tell there were eight kids, She could tell who had gotten 580 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:23,639 married. And then there was 1 outlier, 581 00:34:23,639 --> 00:34:25,320 one man who had not gotten married. 582 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,840 We could trace them back to where we grew up. 583 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:31,600 We could trace them back to what they did. 584 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:35,760 I found the obituary of the one who never got married, but he 585 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,080 would have been like 25 years older than my mom. 586 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:40,199 And I was like, oh, mom was young. 587 00:34:40,199 --> 00:34:43,520 She was super hot, super attractive, like she would have 588 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:49,000 never been like now and then. Like we know what they did. 589 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:52,960 We know what they owned, we know their business. 590 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,199 And it said in there that he loved to dance. 591 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,320 And it named a specific place that he used to love to go 592 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,400 dancing. Well, that's where my mom always 593 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:09,720 went dancing. So about a year ago, I said to 594 00:35:09,720 --> 00:35:13,120 my one sister who I talked the most about, I said I'm calling 595 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:15,640 this gentleman who is my mom's friend. 596 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,280 He is the spouse of my mom's other best friend, my mom's 597 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:21,240 other best friend, like like 20 years ago. 598 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:25,320 I call him up and I get right to the point and he immediately 599 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:26,920 says, Oh yeah, I know that story. 600 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,120 Evelyn told me that was his ex-wife. 601 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,800 And they said, huh? So mom told Evelyn. 602 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:38,000 Yeah, Yeah. And I go, well, mom was super 603 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,280 private. I'm kind of surprised that if 604 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:41,960 mom told Evelyn, she would tell you. 605 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:44,840 He goes, we were married. It was pillow talk. 606 00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:46,800 That was literally, quote, UN quote. 607 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:50,600 So I said, OK, then who is it? Oh, I don't know. 608 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:55,440 OK, so you know, I have a different dad. 609 00:35:55,920 --> 00:36:00,240 You know the whole story, but you allegedly don't know who. 610 00:36:00,240 --> 00:36:01,640 Yes. I don't know. 611 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:02,960 I go. Huh. 612 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,360 I'm struggling with that. Oh, it's in the past, Angie. 613 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:08,520 Just you need to let it go. It's in the past. 614 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:11,960 And so, you know, there's something I've learned. 615 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,880 I can go the rest of my life without somebody telling me how 616 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,320 I should feel or what I should do about my own personal story. 617 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,960 And trust me when I tell you I'm going to try not to tell you how 618 00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,760 you should feel about things. Well, now I pissed him off. 619 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,800 So I try to soften the conversation a little bit, and 620 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,280 then he starts giving me BS. He's like, well, you know, 621 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:34,160 there's this man, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, 622 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:35,520 blah, blah. And he starts to build this 623 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:39,080 whole story about this guy that he knew that he had introduced 624 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:43,000 my mom to and that they were pretty smitten with each other. 625 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:47,800 And it might be him. And I was like, is he Jewish? 626 00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,720 No, no, but it could be him. I go, it's not going to be him 627 00:36:50,720 --> 00:36:52,600 if he's not Jewish. Well, I'm going to call him 628 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:54,960 anyway. I go, no, don't call him. 629 00:36:55,240 --> 00:36:58,120 We're not telling anybody. My sisters don't want me to tell 630 00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:00,080 anybody. They, they feel like that's a 631 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,520 disservice to mom, like I'm outing mom because that was the 632 00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:04,640 other thing. They didn't want me to tell 633 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:06,200 anybody. I wasn't supposed to talk about 634 00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:08,920 it and that. And so finally I got to a point 635 00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:12,960 where I thought, you don't get to tell me not to tell my story. 636 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:15,920 So I finally was like, I'm not doing this anymore. 637 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:19,280 I'm not playing. I'm not going to do this just 638 00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:22,000 because you think I shouldn't talk about it because you think 639 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:23,640 it might put mom in whatever light. 640 00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:25,360 I'm sorry. This is my story. 641 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:30,280 So he then builds this narrative about how it could be this one 642 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:32,080 guy. So he goes, I'm gonna, I'm gonna 643 00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:33,640 give him a call. I'm gonna give him a call right 644 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:35,440 now. So of course, he doesn't call me 645 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:37,200 back. I call him a couple weeks later. 646 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:39,160 Oh, yeah, I call him. I call him. 647 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,560 He said it's not him. They go, yeah, well, I probably 648 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:44,520 could have told you that because, again, he's not Jewish. 649 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,960 So I said, well, OK, there's a man. 650 00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:51,720 He used to go dancing or mom used to go dancing, and I named 651 00:37:51,720 --> 00:37:58,040 the place the place. Oh, yeah, yeah, I remember him. 652 00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:01,680 I go, you too. Oh, they used to love to dance. 653 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,520 They were both great dancers. They were show stoppers. 654 00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:06,720 Like they used to love to go dancing together. 655 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,320 I bet it is. And I said, well, he was a lot 656 00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,560 older, yeah, yeah. But he wasn't married. 657 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:16,000 And that was as much as I got. That's the furthest I've gotten. 658 00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:21,520 There's other parts to the story that go into what I found on 659 00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:27,200 23andMe, but as far as reaching out to people, that's all I had. 660 00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:33,320 OK, OK. Now you have connections on 661 00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:37,360 23andMe. What happens with those and what 662 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:43,800 was your closest connection? There's a gentleman who shows up 663 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:49,040 as my closest connection and then there's another girl and I 664 00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:52,320 can't remember what it is, what their relationship is. 665 00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:56,080 And I reach out to him. I message him on 23andMe and he 666 00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:58,360 says my daughter used to work for 23andMe. 667 00:38:58,360 --> 00:38:59,800 These stories happen all the time. 668 00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:04,200 It's very sad and I quote but just be happy. 669 00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:07,600 Grew up in a good home. So once again someone telling me 670 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:13,000 how to feel that it was all I could do not to send a few 671 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,760 choice words back to him and say thank you for me. 672 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:19,680 Explaining to me how I should feel and how I'm just so lucky 673 00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:22,120 that I grew up in a good home. When you don't know what I grew 674 00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:24,320 up in. Yes it was a good home, but you 675 00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:26,680 don't know that. It's presumptuous. 676 00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:30,640 It's like, don't tell me what I should or shouldn't feel or I 677 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,960 should just be happy. And so I said, look, this has to 678 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,000 do with health issues 'cause it really does. 679 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,160 Like, I wanna know, does that side have dementia? 680 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:41,680 Does that side have heart disease? 681 00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:44,240 I wanna know because I know what my mom's side has. 682 00:39:44,240 --> 00:39:46,960 I know there's heart disease, there's dementia. 683 00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:52,760 I wanna know what this side has. And he gave me a heart shot 684 00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:55,800 down. I mean, be happy, feel this way. 685 00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:58,720 You had a good home. Go away, little girl. 686 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,960 I mean, it was clear. Then he hides his tree. 687 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:06,320 So I emailed the other girl. I don't hear back for a long 688 00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,960 time. Then I hear back and she says, 689 00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:12,320 you know, we all got together for the holidays and we were 690 00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:16,880 talking about it and we think there's only one person it could 691 00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:19,920 be because we've never heard any stories and it's the guy who was 692 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,760 never married. In other words, we needed to be 693 00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:25,200 him because none of us want to think it was our time. 694 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:29,840 Right. Right, so low hanging fruit. 695 00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:34,480 Gotta be that guy, the guy who's not married 'cause it definitely 696 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:35,840 ain't gonna be my dad or grandpa. 697 00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:40,720 And then she hides her tree and I was like those bitches because 698 00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:43,360 I'm 60, I'm fine, I'm established. 699 00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,600 I don't want anybody's money. Jesus Christ. 700 00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:49,320 I just want to know my health. I want to know who he is. 701 00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:51,720 I want to know what happened, if there's anybody who knows. 702 00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:53,880 And I want to know what my health risks are. 703 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:55,960 Is her heart disease? Is her dementia? 704 00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:58,560 What are the big things I should watch out for? 705 00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:02,520 Like Ashkenazi Jewish, very high risk for breast cancer. 706 00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:05,320 Hey, I might have wanted to know that. 707 00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:08,920 So there was one other girl. She's pretty far down. 708 00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:10,840 She was the only one who was lovely. 709 00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:13,840 And she goes, do you want me to ask my dad? 710 00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:16,960 My dad knows nothing and it's pretty far removed. 711 00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,680 So she's like, I would talk to you anytime if you want to just 712 00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:23,080 hop on a call. And I never did follow through 713 00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:26,440 because I'm thinking she's so far over on the tree. 714 00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:30,800 I feel like it would just be telling a story that exhausts me 715 00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:35,440 but not really getting anywhere. But she was lovely. 716 00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:37,480 I just don't think she has any information. 717 00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:42,680 Have you done anything else to get any closer or is that kind 718 00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:45,520 of where it ends in terms of figuring it out? 719 00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:49,040 It really ends there. I know there's DNA angels. 720 00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:54,480 I had a girl on my show and she has a podcast. 721 00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,120 She is a researcher and does a lot with DNA. 722 00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,880 And I also reached out to another DNA person and both of 723 00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:08,000 them were like to tell more men test and basically yours being 724 00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:11,160 that far back. And if it was this guy that 725 00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:14,800 every that seems to be the most suspect of the low hanging 726 00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:16,920 fruit. He passed when my youngest 727 00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:19,920 daughter was born. He's been dead for years because 728 00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:22,280 again, he was like 25 years older than my mom. 729 00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:25,280 And so he had no kids, no spouse. 730 00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,280 So there's no one there. I have a feeling those two 731 00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:31,760 people who shot me out know something or have some 732 00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:34,520 suspicion. I mean outside is showing up at 733 00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:37,080 their door one day making them super uncomfortable and finding 734 00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:39,440 out where they live and then potentially getting arrested and 735 00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,240 being a stalker. Which don't get me wrong I think 736 00:42:42,240 --> 00:42:48,680 about daily trust me I do. But or hiring DNA angels just to 737 00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:52,160 see? How have you I guess come to 738 00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:57,320 terms with or not the fact that you do have so many questions 739 00:42:57,320 --> 00:42:58,640 still? I think. 740 00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:04,320 I haven't. I think even though I teach 741 00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:09,040 clients and people that you can't hack it away, that again, 742 00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:13,800 it's like a leaky faucet. It's it's leaking, but I think 743 00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:17,680 it exhausts me both ways. It's it's like emotionally 744 00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:22,480 depleting. It's almost like not reaching 745 00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:25,360 out means that there still could be hope. 746 00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:29,280 But if you reach out and they shut you down, there's 0 hope. 747 00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:33,920 So maybe it's me not reaching out or pursuing. 748 00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:36,920 This is my way of protecting my heart. 749 00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:42,040 Because if they say hard no, we can't get anywhere, then I have 750 00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:43,600 to face that I'll never ever know. 751 00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:48,080 But by not pursuing it, my psyche can say, oh, if you 752 00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:49,320 really want to know, you'll find out. 753 00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:50,840 If you really want to know, you'll find out. 754 00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:54,040 But I think that there's a part of me that knows that that's 755 00:43:54,040 --> 00:44:00,080 probably not true. And so me doing that and then 756 00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:03,960 realizing I'm never going to know is the finality that I 757 00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,880 don't have to face by not pursuing it, if that makes 758 00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:09,480 sense. Yeah, that does make sense. 759 00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:14,320 It's like it's protective. Yeah, I think it is, but it's 760 00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:17,800 not doing me any favors. It's not at all. 761 00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:21,080 But I think it is sort of protective because I'm so afraid 762 00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:22,800 they're going to say there's no hope. 763 00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:26,400 So there are no siblings to be found that you know of, right? 764 00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:29,360 I mean, there could always be someone else out there, but to 765 00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:31,520 your knowledge she doesn't have any other children. 766 00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:35,560 That's what I keep hoping for. I keep hoping I'm going to open 767 00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:41,160 up 23 and me one day and I'm going to find a sibling that is 768 00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:44,800 almost like a dream, like he had another baby somewhere. 769 00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:49,080 You mentioned earlier that you maybe haven't let yourself feel 770 00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:54,120 that full emotional breakdown around it. 771 00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:59,160 Do you still feel that in there? Have you processed it in some 772 00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:01,480 other way? 10 years is a long time, so how 773 00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:05,880 are you moving through this? I think when you're in a dark 774 00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:09,560 spot about something in your life, all the other dark spots 775 00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:15,120 do a pile on. So usually when I'm stressed or 776 00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:19,480 I'm hurt or there's something else big going on in my life, my 777 00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:23,320 brain doesn't pile on. And it goes into the you don't 778 00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:27,640 even belong in your own family. She didn't even want you. 779 00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:30,720 She couldn't have had an abortion. 780 00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:34,160 Even if she wanted to have an abortion, she couldn't. 781 00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:37,120 She didn't even want you. You don't even belong. 782 00:45:37,720 --> 00:45:39,440 You weren't even meant to be here. 783 00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:43,520 And it goes to like the most horrific dark spaces. 784 00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:46,160 And it's like, where do you fit in? 785 00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:48,240 Because you're like a square pig in a round hole. 786 00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:50,680 You don't fit into your biological family. 787 00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:55,200 Because that is an interesting part of it, too, is my sister 788 00:45:55,200 --> 00:46:00,720 who's next to me and lying said to me, one day, I hope you don't 789 00:46:00,720 --> 00:46:04,120 mind me saying this. And I said, well, now you got to 790 00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:07,120 say it. She goes, it makes so much 791 00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:10,400 sense. And I go, what do you mean? 792 00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:16,120 And she goes, look at you and then look at us. 793 00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:18,800 She's like, you went out there, you got a degree, you got a 794 00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:21,960 master's degree. You like moved away, you went to 795 00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:24,760 college. You, you, you sort of like 796 00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:28,280 created this big life. And she goes and the rest of us 797 00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:30,080 did it. And you've always been 798 00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:31,920 different. Like you've always been way more 799 00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:35,360 driven, more confident, more outgoing. 800 00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:42,320 You just have been different. It's true you would not pick me 801 00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:44,920 and my sisters out from the lineup and put us together. 802 00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:49,440 And it is true I am extremely different from all of them. 803 00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:53,000 I am much more driven. I am much more independent. 804 00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:54,880 I am the only one who moved away. 805 00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:57,320 I am the first one who went to college. 806 00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:00,360 I'm just different. And it definitely does make 807 00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:04,200 sense in that way. But my mind can go to some 808 00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:08,600 really dark spaces about being a square pig in a round hole. 809 00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:12,320 What would you say is next for you? 810 00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:17,080 I need to give myself a hard deadline and say, OK, you got to 811 00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:21,240 call DNA angels, you got to just fill out the paperwork, you got 812 00:47:21,240 --> 00:47:23,040 to do it. Stop denying it. 813 00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:25,280 I know it's protected, but it's not helping. 814 00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:30,600 And you really should just see. And if you find out that there's 815 00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:33,440 nothing to find out, at least you'll know and you can put it 816 00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:36,720 to rest. So I think that's probably 817 00:47:36,720 --> 00:47:41,000 what's next. And then hopefully connect with 818 00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:44,000 other people. In my situation, I always 819 00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:46,440 believe that you take your pain and you get a purpose. 820 00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:51,120 So whether that means that I run a support group or I speak at a 821 00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:56,040 conference where people are struggling, I think I've been in 822 00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:59,200 the shadows for so long. I've been hiding for so many 823 00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:04,560 years now, 10 years now, that maybe it's time that I come out 824 00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:08,200 of the shadows and use my experience to help other people. 825 00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:10,520 I just never really knew if it was a story worth sharing 826 00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:12,000 because I don't have any answers. 827 00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:13,720 So I was like, my story's boring. 828 00:48:13,720 --> 00:48:16,480 I don't have any answers. No, but as I always say, 829 00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:18,120 everyone is at a different point. 830 00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:22,240 And I think, you know, I get messages from people all the 831 00:48:22,240 --> 00:48:26,360 time talking about how they heard some story or they heard 832 00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:29,440 some nugget from some story, whether it's very similar to 833 00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:31,800 theirs or different. But it, it helped them. 834 00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:36,640 And I think that it is helpful for people to hear that there's 835 00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:40,080 somebody else who doesn't have answers, that they're not alone, 836 00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:45,160 that not everybody uncovers every scrap of information. 837 00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:49,920 I hope that you do get your answers and that the DNA angels 838 00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:52,320 or someone else is able to help you find him. 839 00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:55,920 But your story is absolutely worth telling whether or not you 840 00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:58,800 know for sure at this point. Yeah, I guess that. 841 00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:00,360 I was just thought it would be too boring. 842 00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:02,400 There's no closure. It's not wrapped up in a pretty 843 00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:03,960 package. It's not a Hallmark story. 844 00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:07,360 It doesn't end with my family embracing me and being like, Oh 845 00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:09,800 my God, we've been hoping you would come forward. 846 00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:13,000 They don't, though they don't always end up that way. 847 00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:18,040 What advice do you have for someone who may be keeping adna 848 00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:21,360 surprise from their child? 1st, I want to say that I have a 849 00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:24,800 ton of compassion and empathy because again, I can see where 850 00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:28,400 it's a very difficult space because you don't want that kid 851 00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:31,960 to be the one kid, you know? Like in my situation, I can't 852 00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:35,000 imagine that my mom would have wanted me to be that kid who had 853 00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:37,480 to leave on the holidays and be away from all of us. 854 00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:40,320 That would have made me always feel like I didn't belong. 855 00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:43,040 And now I already feel like I don't belong, but at least I 856 00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:44,560 didn't have to feel like that growing up. 857 00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:48,400 That's just my ugly parts telling me I don't belong, but 858 00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:50,280 at least I meant to grow up experiencing that. 859 00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:56,320 So I would just say wait it out and at some point, maybe when 860 00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:58,960 your child gets older, find a time. 861 00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:01,920 Because I don't think dying with a secret is a good thing. 862 00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:04,680 I think that secrets never stay secrets. 863 00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:08,280 Somehow, someway, secrets never stay secrets. 864 00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:11,040 And if you die with that secret, you risk that your child will 865 00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:12,560 resent you for the rest of your life. 866 00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:16,000 I don't resent my mom. I feel a lot of empathy for her, 867 00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:18,160 but I also feel a lot of pain for me. 868 00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:21,240 I feel a lot of tremendous pain for me. 869 00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:24,960 But I think my mom is lucky that I don't resent her 'cause I 870 00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:27,000 think there's probably a lot of people who do. 871 00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:30,920 So don't spend all those years raising your child trying to be 872 00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:32,360 a good parent. Only two. 873 00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:34,760 When you're gone and you don't have answers and you can't 874 00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:37,880 defend yourself, have your child come up with all these stories 875 00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:40,800 that could be so far from the truth and then risk that they 876 00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:42,600 could resent you for the rest of their lives. 877 00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:44,840 And not to mention you're really going to mess them up 878 00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:47,400 psychologically. And what advice do you have for 879 00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:50,440 someone who just uncovered Adna surprise? 880 00:50:50,720 --> 00:50:53,600 Get support. There are people in my life who 881 00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:57,280 I wanted to support me who did not, were not able, or were not 882 00:50:57,280 --> 00:50:59,800 willing. But some of my friends were 883 00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:02,920 amazing. But I usually use humor, so 884 00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:06,040 humor is always my defense. So I called a few of my friends, 885 00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:09,240 like who I knew were Jewish. We had a good laugh and they 886 00:51:09,240 --> 00:51:12,800 sent me some funny stuff and it was all ha ha ha. 887 00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:14,760 But there was pain underneath that. 888 00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:19,560 But humor helped me to go get some support. 889 00:51:19,720 --> 00:51:24,680 Sometimes people dismiss what they don't know or what feels 890 00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:27,680 too heavy for them. And so sometimes even your 891 00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:31,160 closest people are going to disappoint you because they 892 00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:34,000 don't have the tools or they don't understand why it would 893 00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:37,080 bother you. They don't, they just don't get 894 00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:39,600 it. They're like, oh, whatever, like 895 00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:42,920 they're dead, who cares? Like you had a good growing up. 896 00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:45,720 Go back to what I said, a personal narrative disruption. 897 00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:47,880 It makes you question your whole life. 898 00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:51,880 Every single piece of your history is in question. 899 00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:56,280 Every single holiday, every story, every memory is in 900 00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:59,000 question about the reality versus the truth. 901 00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:03,280 How much of that was real and how much of that was people 902 00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:06,280 hiding or keeping something from you? 903 00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:09,320 It disrupts everything you thought about your childhood. 904 00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:13,120 So you need to get support. And if I'm going to be just very 905 00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:17,480 frank about something, I'm angry with these testing companies. 906 00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:19,480 They put the cart before the horse. 907 00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:22,560 I'm angry. And that's where I do get angry 908 00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:24,960 and spicy and I go off on my bandwagon. 909 00:52:25,240 --> 00:52:29,920 How dare they offer all these testing services and they they 910 00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:34,320 open up Pandora's box, but they offer no services for 911 00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:38,600 psychological Wellness and, you know, helping people who might 912 00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:40,560 really not be able to cope with this. 913 00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:44,000 Shame on these companies. Shame on these companies for 914 00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:47,640 putting it out there and then just making people deal with the 915 00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:52,800 aftermath. I completely agree. 916 00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:58,560 I have written and passioned emails to 23andMe and Ancestry 917 00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:03,640 because I think that leaving links on their website and like 918 00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:06,800 an e-mail of here's a list of four thing you know websites to 919 00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:10,800 go to for support is not enough. It's not new. 920 00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:13,840 That wasn't even there before. It wasn't there before. 921 00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:15,960 I want to say within the last few years. 922 00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:21,520 I really feel like they should have departments of well-being 923 00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:23,240 providers. I realized they might not be 924 00:53:23,240 --> 00:53:26,440 able to be like licensed counselors for people, but 925 00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:29,840 somebody to really support people in those initial moments 926 00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:33,560 because it's so raw. It is so raw before you can, you 927 00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:35,760 know, connect them to a professional or something in 928 00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:38,240 their area. But there needs to be more than 929 00:53:38,240 --> 00:53:41,040 just this happened sometimes. So sorry. 930 00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:43,960 Here's a link that's. Yeah, because it's like a 931 00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:48,360 suicide hotline, like you need immediate, to your point 932 00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:51,120 resources. Angie, thank you so much for 933 00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:53,680 joining me on the podcast and sharing your story. 934 00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:57,840 I know that you weren't sure if your story was worth telling, so 935 00:53:57,840 --> 00:53:59,960 to speak, because you don't have all the answers. 936 00:53:59,960 --> 00:54:03,480 But I think that that makes your story just as powerful as anyone 937 00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:05,440 else's. And I hope that you do get the 938 00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:07,880 answers that you're looking for. Thank you. 939 00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:11,680 Thank you for having me on. Thanks again to Angie for 940 00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:14,800 sharing her story. If you have Adna surprise that 941 00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:19,960 you'd like to share, submit your story at dnasurprises.com and 942 00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:23,560 for early add free access to episodes, join me over on 943 00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:27,520 patreon@patreon.com/DNA Surprises. 944 00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:31,800 Until next time. This episode of DNA Surprises 945 00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:36,680 was hosted, produced and edited by me, Alexis Oursalt. 946 00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:41,520 It was mixed and mastered by Josh Oursalt of Siren Recording 947 00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:42,240 Studios.