A month ago we went up to Illinois and it was, it was one
of the coolest things ever. I've never met these people.
I mean, I just found out about this four months ago, three
months before we went up there. And it was like, we've known
each other our whole lives. It was pretty neat because
growing up I was always very different.
And well, you know, you hear this a lot on here being very
different. But the weird thing is, is it
was normal to be different. I'm just different.
I didn't know there was a way to fit in.
And now is a we're an adult with three kids now.
Now I fit in somewhere. I mean, these people, they're,
they're just like me. It's it's it's coolest thing.
Welcome to DNA Surprises, a podcast that delves into the
world of unexpected DNA discoveries.
I'm your host, Alexis ourselves. In July 2021, my life took a
surprising turn when I found out that I'm an NPE, a person who
has experienced a non paternal event.
In other words, my biological father isn't who I thought he
was. Join me as we explore the
stories of NP, ES, adoptees and donor conceived people and their
families. Get ready to unravel the
astonishing journeys that begin with a simple DNA test.
This is DNA surprises. Hey everyone, before we jump
into this week's episode, I have a quick favor to ask if this
podcast has helped you navigate your DNA surprise journey or if
it's giving you insight into what it's like to go through
ADNA Surprise. Please take a moment to rate and
review the podcast on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
My mission is to help people who are experiencing DNA surprises
feel less alone, as well as to raise awareness, reduce secrecy,
and hopefully reduce the shame that causes DNA surprises to
happen in the 1st place. Your ratings and reviews help
this podcast reach more people. Thank you.
The truth will set you free. That's the hope, right?
In this week's episode, Joe shares how taking a test for fun
led to him uncovering the truth about his paternity, which
relieved him of the guilt and burden of maintaining a
relationship with his birth certificate father.
He also discusses how he's connected with a new found
family and what that means to him.
Thank you for sharing your story, Joe.
My name's Joe. I'm 32.
I'm from Illinois, but I live in Tennessee now.
Two years ago, my wife bought herself and IA Ancestry DNA kit.
And the reason we bought it was because her family, her family's
no family's perfect, but her family is, I think as close as
you can get to being perfect. And she wanted to see if she
could find some drama. And that's her exact words.
And Oh my goodness, we we took this test and her results came
back that everything seemed normal.
So she was kind of bummed out. But this was two years ago.
And the weird thing on this that didn't make sense then, but
obviously now makes sense. My last name is a very Irish, my
mother's maiden name is very Irish.
So we kind of was curious to see how much Irish I was.
And it came back with like 5%, which made no sense.
It was just the weirdest. I couldn't explain it so I just
we just left it at that. Fast forward 2 years, I was
getting ready for work and I got an e-mail from Ancestry, which I
haven't been on in two years that said I had a first cousin
once removed match which didn't make any sense to me that I know
everybody and I said paternal side.
I know everybody on my paternal side.
So I reached out to my mom and she told me that my birth
certificate dad told her she wasn't legally allowed to say
anything, which in my line of work I investigate things
sometimes. So I put my work hat on and I
started a search and within an hour and a half I realized that
the one that raised me wasn't my dad.
I had a dad that I've never met in a whole new family.
All within an hour and a half. My mom wouldn't help at all with
it. She was very worried if you knew
my birth certificate, that it, it makes sense.
Very manipulative. He's actually in prison, went to
prison a few years ago. So it was.
It was weird. What were you thinking when you
uncovered this information? How are you feeling?
Shocked, Shocked is the best word.
I've listened to lots of the episodes that you had on here.
I think that's the most common answer is shocked.
Probably the the the first feeling was shocked.
Never upset, never upset which is kind of strange to me.
I don't know why but I think the reason is my first if dad when
he got sent away, I struggled with letting him go because my
mom, she left when I was 5 and I got to see her somewhere growing
up. But my first if your dad, he
never left. So it was hard when he got sent
away to just to cut him off. I mean, he went away for
something very bad and it was struggling with I need to not
cut him off, I have anything to do with him.
And then this happened and then this was just a sign.
So were you raised by your birth certificate father then after
your mother left? Yes, until I was 18 and left for
the military. Yes.
Wow, he OK. That's who raised me.
That's why it was hard to to cut him off.
But then this was I called a sign from the man upstairs.
It was OK, OK to let him go. That's what I think.
Did you confront him with this information?
Does he know? And that's the, he can only call
me and I, I, we can't call in there.
And he's, I've only talked to him in the couple years he's
been there 3 or 4 times. Because I, I guess I don't have
a reason why I'm not talking that much.
Probably because why he got sent away was like I said, something
not good. But he only calls.
And since then he called once and then I wouldn't answer.
And then he called maybe a couple times a week.
And now it's starting to finally die off a little bit.
But this, this all only happened four months ago.
This is all four months and five days ago.
Your mom doesn't help you. She she won't give you any
information. That that that's correct.
When she moved out, she's told me that my birth certificate dad
made her sign something. And if she ever told us me or my
brother about this, then he would take us away from her.
So she just kept it in for 32 years until I asked what what,
what's this name mean? What who is this person?
And she kind of gave me hints. The last name she goes look into
that last name OK that was all she would say and I I went
through obituaries. I found out if that person was
first cousin once removed to me that would I don't understand
what it means but to me it meant would be one generation removed
and I don't even know if that's accurate.
So I asked her or her grandparents were and I got on
and started there and worked my way down to someone who was
roughly my mom's age. I lived close to where I'm from
and I found him on Facebook and it was just an older version of
me. I said, holy cow, I've done it.
I screenshotted a picture and I sent it to my mom and I said, am
I getting close? And she said I haven't seen that
guy in exactly 32 years. And I was OK.
Wow. That that was how I, I verified
it. And I, that's a scary part, was
reaching out to him because I had to find out right then.
I told you it's probably an hour and a half from finding this out
to that. And I just had to know now.
But looking back, I wish I wouldn't have gone so fast
because I couldn't imagine if they weren't as accepting as
they are. I mean, that family is amazing,
absolutely amazing. The legal form that she had to
sign, was it specifically about your paternity or do you still
not have clarity on what exactly it was that she signed?
I have no clarity at all. She didn't know what she was.
She was, she dropped out of high school to have me.
So she was very young when this happened.
And he was very manipulative. I don't even know if this really
was a legal form. I don't know, but OK.
She was scared. She felt like she was going to
be breaking some legally binding agreement if she told you any
more information. OK.
That's that's correct and I don't hold it against her at all
'cause like I said, you would have had to know him.
Sure, understand it. And so she says, I haven't seen
this person in 32 years. At that point, does she say yes,
that is your biological father? Not at all.
That would that's, that's what she said.
And I confirmed through him. I found him on Facebook.
OK, So what was it like when you reached out to him?
I sent him a message. I consider myself kind of a
jokester. And the first message I ever
sent was hello. I think we're closely related,
like really closely related. And I waited and he didn't
respond back very fast. And we found out on Facebook
that he had a daughter who's my half sister.
So I think my wife sent her a message on Facebook and then she
got a hold of my bio dad. And then we started talking.
Right then he said he needed a few days to process it.
After he asked how old I was and where I was from and who my mom
was, he said holy shit was his first words.
I've gotten to talk with him very, very often and kind of I
don't want to push too much because I feel like I'm the one
that inserted myself into their lives.
So I don't ask too many questions yet.
It's kind of taken time. But I asked how what happened
and he told me that he came back around 345 years after I was
born and a family member told him that adna test was done and
I I wasn't his. So then he just let it go for
for 30 years. Go ahead.
OK. And what kind of relationship
did he and your mom have? They boyfriend girlfriends.
A boyfriend girlfriend, my bio dad's wife.
They've been married for just over 30 years and they were
together back then also. That was another scary part
about realizing that it was oh gosh, I hope I don't start
anything. I don't want to do that.
But she's she's just a fantastic human being too.
But they were boyfriend girlfriend at the time.
OK, OK, so he knew that you existed but was told that there
was adna test and that he was not your biological father.
So he let it go and then it comes back around.
That's exactly right. So you said that you talk often
now? Like what?
What is your relationship like? Have you met in person?
We we did. A month ago we went up to
Illinois and it was, it was one of the coolest things ever.
I've never met these people. I mean, I just found out about
this four months ago, three months before we went up there.
And it was like, we've known each other our whole lives.
It was pretty neat because growing up I was always very
different. And well, you know, you hear
this a lot on here being very different.
But the weird thing is, is it was normal to be different.
I'm just different. I didn't know there was a way to
fit in. And now it's a grow an adult
with three kids now it's now I fit in somewhere.
I mean, these people, they're they're just like me.
It's it's it's coolest thing. I mean, this has happened so
fast for you. It's been four months and you've
gone from finding out the truth to being well connected now with
your newfound family. Did you go through any
disruption to your identity or like any of the more?
I guess there are no negative emotions, but like any of the
negative kind of feelings that some people talk about.
That's a fantastic question. There's a couple, a couple
answers. Being a man, you're very proud
of your last name. That's just I, I think that's
just what little boys are taught.
I mean, we have nicknames. People call us different first
names, but nobody calls you a different last name.
And I was in the military and they call you by your last name.
Same thing with where I'm at now that they call you by your last
name. And then when this happened,
that was the weirdest part of the whole thing was that's not
my last name. That's not who I am.
That was part of it. But another way to explain
emotions are the roller coaster of emotions.
Like I've extreme happiness cause I've struggled with
cutting off my birth certificate death and then now it's OK too.
I've got a whole family. I've got a whole family.
But then it's also sad because I've lost it.
So I've lost family, but I've gained family.
It's just just like a roller coaster.
It's a fantastic way to to put it.
Yeah, and that's so true about the the last name.
Have you thought about correcting your birth
certificate or changing your last name to reflect this
newfound family? I, I have thought about that and
it's just, I feel like it would be too hard.
And I've built, I've spent my whole career around, I feel like
building my name would be a good way to put it, trying to do the
right thing all the time. And I feel like that would be
changing it. Now I've got a stepson and two
little girls and if they ever wanted to change their name to
what their name should have been, I very much support it and
I will absolutely do it. It's just for myself to do it.
I don't, I don't think that's something that I could do maybe
later down the road, but I just, I, I don't, don't think I could
do it. Sure.
Yeah. And you know, you talked about
kind of some of the grief because you lost the connection
with your birth certificate father and all that family that
you you knew very well. Are you still connected with the
other members of your what you thought was your paternal side?
There's honestly there's not a lot of them left, a couple aunts
and uncles and then my brother who is my now found a half
brother I thought was my full brother.
I still talk with him very often.
And that's another thing, talking about my brother.
I was always the Big Brother growing up, always defending
him. And when this happened,
everything started to make sense.
What I mean by that was I always got treated differently, always
got treated differently because it was just my first
certificate. Dad, my brother and I growing up
and I'd get in trouble with things and he wouldn't get in
trouble. He would tell me to go live with
my mom. He doesn't want me there.
But he would never say that to my little brother.
And I just thought it was because I was a smart aleck,
which I I'll admit I could be considered that.
Sure, as many children. Could be Oh yes, Oh yes, I grew
up. That was another hard part about
my biological dad. And I told him about how I grew
up and that that bothered him because they would have, I
wouldn't have been raised like that.
As one way to put it, I was things like, you're not allowed
to cry. That's not something you're
allowed to do. My, my new family.
They will and it's OK to and that's, that's pretty neat.
That's that's pretty cool to me because I grew up very hard.
They live in a little tiny town, Illinois.
And that was the first thing when I went into that little
town was what if I was raised here?
This is the house I should have grew up in.
That is hard. And that's hard to put in words
that people don't understand it. But it was weird thinking this
is where I should have been at because remember, my mom left
when I was 5, my biological dad. That's what upsets him the most
is the fact that I for sure would have went with him.
That's that's not a question. I absolutely would have went
with him. And then that, that's where I'd
have grown up instead of where I actually did.
So it's hard to process that. But then also I accept it and I
wouldn't change it for the world because I've got the most
beautiful family now. I've got a fantastic career,
very happy where I'm at, so I wouldn't change it.
But the what if game gets played very often, probably every day.
You think what if, what, what if, what if?
I'd have stayed there. I probably would have never left
that little small town in Illinois.
Yeah, it's a lot to think about. How has the realization that you
were not raised by somebody who is biologically related to you
made you feel? I've spoken to some other people
that have had a similar experience where they were
raised by their dads and then they came to find out that their
dads weren't biologically related.
Like how does that feel? I'm a step dad and a stepfather,
and that's a that's a tricky question.
I'm very proud to be a step dad to my son, and he's my son.
He gets treated no different than my girls, not not even the
slightest little bit. He's got a different last name
and five years ago he lost his dad.
So I am, I'm his dad. There's that's not a question.
Blood doesn't mean anything when it comes to that.
Nah, not even a little bit. But it's hard to put into words
how this experience shows blood does mean something.
And the way I justify that emotionally with myself is he
still has his family that he spends time with and loves it.
That's, that's his blood. That's where he's from.
And that's what I get now. My family, that blood doesn't
mean everything, but now I have that connection kind of just
like he does. Yeah, and there's probably
something to be said for the fact that he also knows, right?
He knows the truth. That's exactly right.
He didn't have to find out the way that that I did, which I
don't think was fair to me. I don't want to play a victim.
I don't do that. But I just, I don't think that
was fair to have to find out that way.
Yeah, no, it certainly wasn't. Have you talked to your mom any
more about this or is she still refusing to discuss it?
She won't discuss it. She's asked how our trip went up
there and I said it was great and she seems supportive that
I'm doing this, but she won't talk about it much at all.
And it's, we don't talk I guess like like we should like we'll
send a text every couple weeks or maybe every couple months.
And if we're not as close as I feel like that we should be, I
mean, we, we try, we go up to their house about four hours
away. We try to go up there every now
and again, but they don't come down here and see us a lot.
We try to get up there. What did your brother think of
all this? He bought an ancestry test the
next day. I didn't think about time change
when this happened. He lives in Colorado and I live
in Tennessee. And I called him and had to go
to bed and I woke him up and he just said a few curse words then
hung up because I consider myself a prankster.
So I don't think he believed it for a second until the next day.
And we had a talk and he said that's crazy.
But he also said it makes sense because he'd seen the way I was
raised also compared to him. I mean, if we call IT department
of Children's Services here, I don't know what's called across
the, yeah, across the country, but if they would have came into
the, the, the trailer that I was raised in, I, I would have been
taken. I mean, there were passed to
places. It was, it wasn't easy.
It wasn't easy. Yeah, yeah.
Have there been any things about yourself that like you said,
you, you now fit in, you understand what it feels like to
fit in? What are some characteristics or
things that all of a sudden have made sense for you since you
connected to your family? Emotions, seeing someone who's
my dad crying, Oh, oh, it's OK to do that, 'cause I still have
that. It's just, I try to bury it
down. But then you see your dad.
It's like, OK, it's OK to do that.
It's OK to show that. Stuff like that.
My aunt who is like a sister, she's younger than my wife.
I talk to her. We FaceTime almost literally
every day. She's awesome.
She makes fun of my receding hairline because that entire
family has a receding hairline. And I said, OK, that's pretty
neat to fit in there too. It's it's things like that.
We're all, I don't consider myself short, vertically
challenged is the way to put it. The entire family's short.
We look like I look like my grandpa.
I never had grandparents growing up.
My paternal grandparents first tipped his dad's parents.
They died when I was really young and my mom's parents, I've
never met my grandpa and my grandma doesn't want to have
anything to do with me. So now I've got grandparents, so
that is cool, that is. Oh wow, so they're still alive
and you can spend time with them.
That's. Amazing.
Oh absolutely. I look just like my grandpa,
which he's over 6 feet tall and I can't say I'm there yet, but
he I look just like him. Other than that, I mean, it is
having grandparents that that's one of the better things.
Did you pick up additional siblings through this?
Yes, I I got my half sister it was she's awesome.
She's just like me. I mean I have messaged her every
single day since this has happened and I so I got 1/2
sister, aunts, uncles. It's a whole, whole new family,
which is, which is cool. And what do your kids think
about this? They love it.
They call him Pee Paul. Pee Paul is what they like to
call him. I'm pretty sure that's his most
favorite thing. My sister, she hasn't had any
children and I don't I don't think she wants to right now,
maybe later in life. So he my my logical dad just
never thought he'd have grandkids.
And then one day four months ago, he got 3.
This is a snap of finger and he just, he's got a little shop in
the town he works in. He renamed the shop to Pete
Paul's Garage. I mean, he just, he loves it.
Oh, wow. Absolutely loves it.
They love him. They FaceTime my children love
it. Absolutely love having this
whole new family. And I have to ask your your
wife, she wanted to take this test because she was hoping for
some drama in her. Family.
I mean it. You got more, yes.
She cares. She couldn't believe it.
Yeah, she couldn't believe it. She could.
This was surprising to her, too. Oh yeah, She, she wanted to find
something. She just, I don't know, I guess
got bored and wanted to see if she could find any dramas.
What she said and I did it 'cause I was told to do it, I
don't care. I didn't think anything about it
and she found nothing. And my iris results were strange
but I just let it go. And then two years later, I'm
the one with the drama. Wow.
And what, what has she thought of all of this?
Very, very, very supportive. She's been very happy with it
too, because I moved away and I live here and her family lives
here. And this is where we've lived
for over 10 years. And her family's just like my
family. Like I said, there's no perfect
family, but hers is as close as you can get.
And they're, there's fantastic human beings.
But now there's more family, There's more to it.
There's more people for her the the aunt that's like a sister.
She she talks with my wife very often also.
I mean, it's my wife has been a huge part in this going back to
some of the emotional, emotional bad things that has happened.
My birth certificate dad, he would tell my wife about our
kids. There's heart problems and and
his family and my little girl had something with her chest and
he made her go through a whole bunch of tests at a hospital
couple hours away. And he said, yeah, you better do
those tests. You know, we have problems in
the family with this. You have to you have to make
sure she get those tests. And we spent thousands of
dollars and many hours just putting her through tests she
didn't need only because of that family history that upset my
wife more than anything else. That was the first thing she
said when she heard about this was a test that my little girl
had to go through just because he didn't want to tell the
truth. Do you think that there is any
chance that he did not know? No, no.
Another family member when I put this on Facebook from Virginia,
reached out and asked. When they told me, I said when
they told me what she said about this, nobody ever told me
anything. She goes, Oh my gosh, the entire
family knows. That whole family just hid it
from me. And I, I didn't confront them.
But when we went up there to visit my new family, we sat down
and talked a little bit and asked what they thought about
all this. And they said, oh, that's crazy.
That's crazy. We just didn't know.
And, and I go back into that. It's another little town in
Illinois. And I go to the little gas
station and the manager used to babysit me when I was a kid.
She said the same thing that that family member said.
She said, when did they tell you said, nobody told me anything.
I had to do this on my own. She goes, oh, even I knew.
Even the people in the town knew.
Everybody knew besides me, so he 110% knew.
How do you feel about the fact that so many people knew this
thing about you that you didn't know about yourself?
That's embarrassing. It feels embarrassing.
Embarrassing is a good word, but it's not.
That's not the right word. That's just the the what I feel
now I go to that, back to that little town.
I mean, there's 100 people in the high school.
I mean, it's a small town, so literally everybody knows
everybody and they all know that, and I didn't know it.
So it's like the entire place kept a secret from me growing
up. I mean, it was embarrassing.
It's probably the best word for it, even though that's not the
right word. That's just what I think is the
best word for. It what has helped you as you've
navigated this experience? I mean, it is only four months
in and I assume that, you know, having it go so positively with
your newfound family has certainly helped, but what has
helped you navigate this? I'm a very shy person.
I wasn't allowed to be growing up.
So I kind of, I feel shy, but I'll, I'll stand in front of a
crowd and give a speech just 'cause I guess that's what I was
taught. My little sister, my new little
sister, my half sister, we've talked about that.
She's very shy and it's just she wasn't taught not to be that she
was allowed to be herself growing up.
I say this because my aunt, that's like a sister Emily's her
name. She is the exact opposite, very
forward. That's why we Facetimed almost
every day because I think the second or third day after this
happened, she just Facetimed me. I'm very shy and this is a new
person, so the best answer for that would probably be her.
I mean, the very first day I talked to her, she wanted to
know when we're coming to meet up.
I mean, that has been the biggest help by far as someone
that understands because she understands the family's shy or
shy tendencies. I guess the way to put it,
that's why I've gotten so lucky. I don't think everything would
have moved the way it has if it wasn't for her being so forward
and calling often. Yeah, that's awesome.
Oh yes. What's next for you?
What are you hoping like over the next six months to a year
with your newfound family or just yourself as you navigate
this? We're planning to go back up
there another couple months, go back up and try to meet
everybody again. For me personally, I want to try
to get over how I was raised. That's probably the hardest part
is looking back, realizing didn't have to be like that, but
forgiving my birth certificate and for the way I was raised,
that's what I want to do. I don't want to tell him I
forgive him. I don't want to have any more
conversations with him ever again.
Just being able to forgive him. I forgive my mom.
I know how hard that had to be. And I actually truthfully
believe she was too scared. The same thing and then it
became too late when I was adult, she felt like she
couldn't. I, I understand it, I really do.
So I, I forgive her. But moving forward, it's just
get to know them more. Get to know my grandparents
aren't in fantastic health. My new grandparents get to know
them as much as I can as soon as I can just meet, meet more
people still family members that that I haven't met yet.
There was some that drove I think 16 hours overnight just to
spend 1/2 an hour with us. I mean, family that would do
that. Wow, that's unreal.
And then there's other family members over there that was was
too busy to talk with us, which is fine that that's totally OK.
But it's get to know them all, get to know everybody more at
100%. The plan.
I got a supportive family that'll let me do that.
What advice do you have for a parent who is keeping adna
surprise from their child? If I was put in the shoes to be
a parent that was keeping this and they knew about it, you have
to tell them. You have to tell them as soon as
they're old enough to comprehend it.
That way they can build their life around it because it's,
it's their life. It's, it's the child's life.
They're they're the ones that's going to be affected by this.
They're going to find out. So keeping it is there's no
point in keeping it from them. They're 100% going to find out.
And if that's all they've known, it'll be much easier to deal
with in life instead of being 30-40, fifty years old and
finding out and then your whole life gets turned upside down
because of the time you missed out with your family that you
couldn't have known who your real grandparents are.
I mean, it's, it's just not worth it.
It's not worth it to hold it, to hold it in.
I know it's scary. I can't imagine how scary it is.
I remember, remember I talked about my mom's.
I understand it. She should have told me.
She should have told me at least when I became an adult.
I think it was fair at that point because he couldn't have
taken me when I was an adult. That would have been her time to
tell me. You have to tell them.
If you're a parent, you got to tell.
Them. And what advice do you have for
someone who just uncovered a DNA surprise?
I would take it slow. That'd be advice, 'cause I went
too fast. I know I went too fast.
I didn't think about before I reached out, I didn't ask more
questions. But I got very lucky.
I and I don't think everybody can get that lucky.
I did. But if I was giving him any
advice, it was in my shoes. Go slower, go slow.
Think about it before you reach out, talk to your family members
that you know, ask them as many questions as you can and just
just take it easy. Don't rush in like I did 'cause
I thought it reached out, they wouldn't have wanted anything to
do with me. I think that would have been
just worst case scenario that have been horrible and I want to
try to protect some of them. Hopefully someone listen to this
is maybe they're thinking about reaching out and just hopefully
they'll listen. This is take a second think
about it. Talk to the people you know
first, then reach out 'cause it's your story.
The end of the day, it's your story, not nobody else's.
No one can tell you what to say. It's your start.
Well said, Joe, Thank you so much for joining me on the
podcast and sharing your very recent DNA Surprise.
I'm so happy for you that it's going really well and I wish you
the best as you continue to get to know your brand new family.
Thank you, thank you, thank you for having me.
This was getting my story out there.
I think it's going to help more people and I thank you for that,
really. It absolutely will.
Thank you. Thanks again to Joe for sharing
his story. If you have adna surprise that
you'd like to share, submit your story at dnasurprises.com and
for early add free access to episodes, join me over on
patreon@patreon.com/DNA Surprises.
Until next time. This episode of DNA Surprises
was hosted, produced and edited by me Alexis Ourselt.
It was mixed and mastered by Josh Ourselt of Siren Recording
Studios.