1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,960 He passed away. Now here's a kind of a weird 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:07,520 thing about that. I had said that I found out his 3 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:14,520 results on a Thursday and I talked to him on that Saturday 4 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:19,200 and that date was November 6th, 2016. 5 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:26,200 He died on November 8th of 2020, but the last time I spoke to him 6 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:29,480 was November 6th. So the first time I ever talked 7 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:33,040 to him and the last time I ever talked to him was on the same 8 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:37,480 day, four years. Apart Welcome to DNA Surprises, 9 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:41,240 a podcast that delves into the world of unexpected DNA 10 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:44,880 discoveries. I'm your host, Alexis ourselves. 11 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:50,920 In July 2021, my life took a surprising turn when I found out 12 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:55,720 that I'm an NPE, a person who has experienced a non paternal 13 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:59,040 event. In other words, my biological 14 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:01,320 father isn't who I thought he was. 15 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:07,080 Join me as we explore the stories of NP, ES, adoptees and 16 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:09,600 donor conceived people and their families. 17 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:13,600 Get ready to unravel the astonishing journeys that begin 18 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:18,920 with a simple DNA test. This is DNA surprises. 19 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:24,400 Many people in the DNA Surprise community grew up with dads or 20 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:28,600 birth certificate fathers, BCFS as they're often called. 21 00:01:29,320 --> 00:01:34,240 We are raised by these men and then one day, through adna test 22 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:37,320 or other means, we learn that they are not our biological 23 00:01:37,320 --> 00:01:39,760 fathers. But what if you never really 24 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:43,200 felt like you had a dad? How does the DNA Surprise affect 25 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:46,120 you? In this week's episode, Alyssa 26 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:49,960 shares how her free spirited mother had her and her twin 27 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:54,200 brother on her own before marrying their stepfather. 28 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:56,760 Alyssa remembers asking questions. 29 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:00,880 Do we have a dad? And getting the same explanation 30 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:03,960 each time. He lived in another state. 31 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:08,160 He'd gone to prison. They tried to make it work but 32 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:12,120 did not. In her early 20s, Alyssa 33 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:14,280 attempted to build a relationship with who she 34 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:18,200 believed was her biological father Jim, even finding an 35 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:20,440 uncle dad through his brother Rick. 36 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:24,920 After taking Adna test, everything she thought she knew 37 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:28,480 was upended. Thank you for sharing your 38 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:33,240 story, Alyssa. My name is Alyssa and I'm 52. 39 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:36,840 I'll be 53 in August and I'm from Portland, ME. 40 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:41,400 I grew up with a single mom and a twin brother. 41 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:45,360 She grew up in Maine but when she was in her 20s she would go 42 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:48,120 down to Florida. She'd go in the winter time and 43 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:52,000 she'd work jobs in the winter time and she'd come back to 44 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:55,240 Maine and she did this for about 5 or 6 years. 45 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:59,600 Then she got pregnant and she came back to Maine for good to 46 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,880 have the baby unmarried. I don't really know the back 47 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:06,800 story, but I just know that her boyfriend, who she said was our 48 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:12,760 dad, was in prison when we were born and he was from Wisconsin. 49 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:16,800 So he was back in Wisconsin. So now she's back in Maine. 50 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:20,200 She gave birth to us. The twins was a surprise. 51 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:22,720 I think she knew just a couple months before she had us that 52 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:25,800 she was having twins. So she had boy and girl twins. 53 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:30,680 I, I remember my young childhood not having a dad around. 54 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:32,920 No big deal, you know, that's just what we knew. 55 00:03:32,920 --> 00:03:36,720 But I remember I was always the one asking, do we have a dad? 56 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:40,160 Who's our dad? She always told us the same 57 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:43,040 thing. She would tell us his name, how 58 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:47,120 old he was, where he was from and a little bit about him and, 59 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:52,200 and that was always consistent, what she would say and never, I 60 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:55,360 never met him. She said that he had come to 61 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:58,760 Portland. They gave it a try after he was 62 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:04,160 released from prison and he came to Portland to see if they could 63 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:06,920 work it out and it didn't last long so he left. 64 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:11,120 Did you want to have a relationship with him or were 65 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:13,400 you curious to have like that relationship? 66 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:17,760 Yeah, I was always very curious growing up, but that was in the 67 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:21,399 80s, so I didn't know there was nothing we could do or that I 68 00:04:21,399 --> 00:04:24,160 could do. And she had no information. 69 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,480 I knew his birthday and my brother, he, he couldn't care 70 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:30,240 less. He didn't ask anything. 71 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:34,880 He just had his opinion, his own opinion about the situation. 72 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:37,680 And I never remember him asking at all. 73 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:40,520 I was always the one asking about him. 74 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:44,360 She, she got married when we were seven. 75 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:48,840 So we did have a step dad, but not, you know, wasn't like we 76 00:04:48,840 --> 00:04:50,200 thought he was our dad or anything. 77 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:53,960 He just was our stepdad. He did adopt us, although that's 78 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:57,680 another Side Story. He thought he adopted us, but 79 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:03,640 she kind of pulled the wool over his eyes and it wasn't legal so. 80 00:05:03,840 --> 00:05:08,760 OK, so he thought he had legally adopted you and in reality your 81 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,160 birth certificate did not change. 82 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:14,120 I was not being official. No, no. 83 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:18,240 But he kind of thought it was. What it actually was was a just 84 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:23,240 a name change basically. But she told him, oh, I got the 85 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:28,000 papers and, you know, I went to court and they're yours now kind 86 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:29,600 of thing. And he is. 87 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:32,720 Oh, OK. So he thought he adopted us. 88 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,440 Wow, and what was your relationship like with him? 89 00:05:35,840 --> 00:05:38,760 It was fine. It wasn't like, oh, this is my 90 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:41,440 dad. We called him Dad because we 91 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:44,400 didn't have a dad. So that was OK with that. 92 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:46,600 You know, that felt natural to us. 93 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:49,120 But he was a nice person and he provided. 94 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:54,560 And so Fast forward through like childhood, when I was 21, that 95 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:57,760 would have been in 1992, I, I had something happen to my 96 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:01,120 personal life that I had my heart broken and all this. 97 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:03,080 So I decided I was going to leave Maine. 98 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:08,440 So I myself ended up in Florida from 92 to 97. 99 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:12,400 But early on when I was there, once I was out of my mom's 100 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:14,640 house, I thought, I'm going to find, I want to find him. 101 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:17,480 I'd like to know who he is, see if I could find him. 102 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:20,000 I didn't expect much. I just wanted to see what he 103 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:23,600 looked like, things like that. So the place I was working at, 104 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,800 there was this guy that worked there that also worked at the 105 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:28,840 police station. I was talking to him about it. 106 00:06:28,840 --> 00:06:30,720 He's so well, do you know his birthday? 107 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:33,680 I said yes. And gave him what little 108 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:35,960 information I had. He actually came back and said I 109 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:39,120 found him. So I wrote him a letter and I 110 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:42,920 left my phone number on the letter and I don't know a couple 111 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:49,080 weeks later he actually called me and he was really excited and 112 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:54,280 we corresponded and then we ended up meeting He at that time 113 00:06:54,280 --> 00:06:56,360 he actually was living in Florida. 114 00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:01,080 He was a truck driver, but he was actually living in Florida. 115 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:06,960 So my spouse at the time we made a plan and we went to meet him. 116 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:10,560 So we end up having a fairly good relationship for a couple 117 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:14,480 years. I had my first son in 1996 and 118 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:19,400 when in in 1997 I came back to Maine, he had already at that 119 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,560 time moved around. He was a truck driver and 120 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:26,040 married and they moved to another state, so my son was 121 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:28,400 one. But it's when I got to Maine, he 122 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:31,640 stopped really corresponding with me, which was weird. 123 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:35,080 What was your feeling like when you met him? 124 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:37,280 And I know hindsight's 2020, right? 125 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:40,760 But when you met him, did you feel like, this is my dad? 126 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:45,640 Did you feel connected with him? I did, I I really did. 127 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:48,360 I he was so nice. He was so handsome. 128 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,080 My mom had always said, oh, he he was gorgeous. 129 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,720 He was so good looking. He looked like Superman, like 130 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:57,800 Christopher Reeve and and he really did. 131 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:03,160 And I was like, OK, mom, I see, you know, I see what you and 132 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:09,360 yeah, so I really liked him and I thought everything was fine. 133 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:13,840 He had a not great relationship with his family, so I didn't 134 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:18,520 meet anybody else, except I did meet his mother once and then he 135 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:20,280 actually ended up meeting my brother. 136 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:22,480 My brother took a little bit to come around. 137 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:25,200 His name was Jim. Jim, the truck driver. 138 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:28,000 He actually met my brother before I met him. 139 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,160 So we both had a little bit of relationship with him. 140 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:35,600 But like I said, when I came to Maine to live, he just stopped 141 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:38,039 having a relationship with me. So I just let it go. 142 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:40,200 You know, I wasn't going to force anything. 143 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:43,919 So that would have been, like I said, 1997. 144 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:49,480 Fast forward many years, all these years go by and I never 145 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:53,400 really reconnected with him, but I actually connected with his 146 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:56,480 brother. His brother Rick was a totally 147 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:59,920 different person, kind of different personality. 148 00:08:59,920 --> 00:09:03,440 He like scooped us up with open arms. 149 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:06,960 Oh, my niece and my nephew and this was Uncle Rick. 150 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:10,760 So we had this great relationship with Uncle Rick. 151 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:13,640 And this would have been in about 2013. 152 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:16,880 Somewhere along there I took the DNA test because I was really 153 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:21,280 big in genealogy. I had done my mom's genealogy. 154 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:24,960 I did Jim's genealogy. I had, I had everything. 155 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:26,960 I knew. I knew where the countries that 156 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:31,600 their ancestors were from and everything, pretty much. 157 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:35,840 I just was curious to see what the DNDNA test would show as far 158 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:38,800 as ethnicity, like how much German, how much Irish, you 159 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:42,760 know, and pretty much thinking it was going to be all English, 160 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:48,800 German, Irish, maybe Scottish. Well, the DNA test came back and 161 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:52,880 it showed that I was half Italian and that did not jive at 162 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:56,400 all with anything that I knew. I had a Co worker at the time 163 00:09:56,400 --> 00:10:01,240 that also was very big in genealogy and DNA and so I 164 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:03,800 showed it to him. He's like, you're half Italian 165 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:07,400 like this, 'cause I thought, well, maybe, you know, the 166 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:12,240 migration of people and, you know, trying to rationalize how 167 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:14,560 it could show that I was Italian. 168 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:19,800 But the gymnastics, right? Every time we start going OK, 169 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:21,640 trying to make it make sense, right? 170 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:23,920 Yeah, Yep. Trying to make it make sense. 171 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:28,880 And it just was like, no, you, you are half Italian. 172 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:32,240 Like this pretty much says that one of your parents has to be 173 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:34,720 full Italian. And you know, your mom's not. 174 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:38,000 It's like, no, she's not. So I was confused and I told 175 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:42,840 Uncle Rick about this and I I even said to him, do you think 176 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:46,560 that Jim was adopted? He's like no, no, he's not 177 00:10:46,560 --> 00:10:50,000 adopted. I'm like, OK, he goes, why don't 178 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:52,080 I take adna test and clear this up? 179 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:58,840 OK, so he submits adna test. I managed it him and I both 180 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:02,440 could look at it. So I was anxiously waiting and I 181 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:06,640 was at work and I opened it and I could not believe my eyes when 182 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:10,840 I saw that he was not matching me at all. 183 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:15,120 And I already, I was kind of just ignoring all the signs. 184 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:18,240 You know, I'd already seen that there was nobody in the match 185 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:23,160 list that had their last name or their grant, you know, any of 186 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:25,720 their family names. I didn't have anybody with those 187 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:29,880 names in my match list. He couldn't believe it. 188 00:11:30,560 --> 00:11:34,680 But when he came back that he wasn't related, like we weren't 189 00:11:34,680 --> 00:11:38,640 on each other's list. I we both were devastated that 190 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:43,680 we just it was, it hurt. It hurt my heart 'cause he was a 191 00:11:43,680 --> 00:11:48,000 wonderful guy. Did you still think maybe Jim 192 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:53,480 was adopted or at that point did you accept the results for what 193 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:57,160 they were? I think I pretty much knew then 194 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:00,800 that it was that was not my family. 195 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:05,480 And it it was hard for both of us. 196 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:09,320 Rick was a very, he's a very sensitive, loving guy. 197 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:12,160 And he scooped us up. We even started calling him 198 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:15,560 Uncle Dad because we didn't have his brother in our life. 199 00:12:15,560 --> 00:12:20,200 He wasn't into it. So he said to us one day, well, 200 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:22,120 if Jim doesn't want you, can I have you? 201 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:26,240 And we said, well, yeah. So it was really, it was really 202 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:30,280 hard when that came out. And he said, well, whatever, you 203 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:32,480 know, I'm still here. We're still family. 204 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,400 I still love you. We kind of just moved on. 205 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:40,240 We made sure our relationship didn't change and it didn't. 206 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:42,600 And it still to this day has not changed. 207 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:46,240 Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, he's a good guy. 208 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,920 But then I had this other problem of well, who the heck is 209 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:53,200 my dad? Did you talk to your mom at this 210 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:56,600 point? Yeah, I did, Mom. 211 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:00,520 She's she's tough. She's a tough one. 212 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:06,400 If you think about what she did back in the late 60s, going back 213 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:10,680 and forth to Maine by herself, working, she just, she was kind 214 00:13:10,680 --> 00:13:14,200 of like a little bit of a rebel. She always told me, oh, I used 215 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:16,160 to date everybody. I date everybody. 216 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:18,720 It didn't matter their age, their race. 217 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:21,600 And she raised my brother and I to be very open and treat 218 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,680 everybody the same. And so she was always open about 219 00:13:24,680 --> 00:13:29,920 her past. I did approach her and it was 220 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:33,760 difficult because she's, she's just a hard person to talk to 221 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:36,200 about stuff like that. Anything that's like more 222 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:39,840 personal to her, she that generation, they like to keep 223 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:45,200 everything inside. So I told her that Jim was not 224 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:49,520 our our father. And her eyes got real big and 225 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:54,120 she's like, what? And I said no, he, you know, I 226 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:57,440 then I explained the, the test to her and she had actually 227 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:00,360 taken a test as well. So I did, I was able to separate 228 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:04,800 all my matches and everything. And I knew the ethnicity, you 229 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:06,480 know, what was hers and what wasn't. 230 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:12,160 So she had taken the test. So I tried to ease the the blow. 231 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:16,240 And can you think of somebody that you might have dated back 232 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:18,120 then? That would be our dad. 233 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:21,280 She said, well, there's only one other person it could be. 234 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:23,960 And his his name was. And she gave this name. 235 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:28,520 And when I heard the name, I thought, well, he's not Italian. 236 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:34,680 And yeah, I said, yeah, I said, was he Italian? 237 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:37,560 And she said, no, he was Irish. He was like full Irish. 238 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:41,440 I said then he's not our dad. By then she was done with the 239 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:43,600 conversation. She's like, well, well then you 240 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:47,520 don't need to know. I was, I don't need to know. 241 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:51,240 I said, well that sucks. And she's like, what sucks? 242 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:55,920 I said that I'm 45 years old and I don't know who my father is. 243 00:14:56,520 --> 00:15:01,080 And she says, Oh, well, she was done. 244 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:03,120 She was not talking about it anymore. 245 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:06,880 I was on my own. And my brother, again, he kind 246 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:11,480 of kept to himself with it. He didn't have any interest in 247 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:14,600 finding out. He even said, well, Jim's my 248 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:16,320 father. I don't know who your father is, 249 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:19,440 but he's my father. I said it so. 250 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:23,320 He he was thinking it might have been one of those rare twins 251 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:24,280 from different. Fathers. 252 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:30,640 Yeah, I said as much of A cool thing it would be to be a 253 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:34,520 medical anomaly, I just don't think that's the case. 254 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:37,840 So he didn't want to admit it. And he was in law enforcement 255 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:40,160 and had no interest in helping me do anything. 256 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:43,480 I was on my own. He he didn't want to rock the 257 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:47,680 boat with mom anymore. And all right, I guess I'm doing 258 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:51,320 this myself. So back to the DNA test. 259 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:58,160 I, I had a high match, a close, close ish match that was an 260 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:00,600 Italian name. And it, that person had a very 261 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:04,360 small tree and I could see like up to his grandparents or 262 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:06,320 something. Everybody's Italian in this, in 263 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:09,680 that family. So I reached out to that person 264 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:14,200 because what I figured out with that person, let's say his name 265 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:18,920 was John, That person, my match named John, I knew based on the 266 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:24,160 centum organs that whoever my father was, was a first cousin 267 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:27,360 to him. So I reached out 'cause I wanted 268 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:30,920 to talk to him about who Who are your male first cousins? 269 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,520 I'm trying to find my biological father. 270 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:35,320 And he didn't really want to help. 271 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:38,720 He just had done the test to help someone else in his family. 272 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:44,880 So he really wasn't too helpful. So I took his small tree and I 273 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:50,520 just started researching it and for some reason his mother's 274 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:53,880 parents, kind of, I was drawn to them. 275 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:59,760 And even more so when I looked at one of the death records and 276 00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:04,800 the family had been like buried in West Palm Beach, FL, which is 277 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,319 where I always knew I was conceived. 278 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:11,520 So I thought I might be on the right track and I'm thinking I'm 279 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:13,920 going to keep looking into this family. 280 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:18,480 So started doing that and I came and kept coming across this one 281 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,280 woman that had family trees on all different sites. 282 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:25,640 I contacted her and I started explaining the situation and she 283 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:28,079 turned out to be a cousin of John as well. 284 00:17:28,079 --> 00:17:32,720 So she would have been in that same generation of that family. 285 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:38,200 And I said, can you help me with your male cousins or do you have 286 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:41,520 any brothers? We started discussing all this 287 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:44,760 and she said, well, I do have two brothers. 288 00:17:45,120 --> 00:17:49,600 One she kind of explained that this one of her brothers was had 289 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:53,200 never even had a girlfriend. He had lived with his mother his 290 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:56,120 whole life. And she says it's probably not 291 00:17:56,120 --> 00:17:57,680 him. But I do have this other 292 00:17:57,680 --> 00:17:59,960 brother. His name is Billy. 293 00:18:00,360 --> 00:18:05,000 And he would have been about the same age as my mom and their 294 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:09,360 family all lived in that same city that my mom had gone back 295 00:18:09,360 --> 00:18:13,400 and forth to for six years. Her relationship with Billy 296 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:16,560 wasn't great, but she was intrigued. 297 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:19,120 And she's like, I want to help you figure this out. 298 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:24,480 And so she's asked me to send her some pictures of my brother 299 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:26,680 and I and my mom. And she took all this 300 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:30,160 information and I believe she sent her husband over to talk to 301 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:31,520 Billy. She didn't get along with her 302 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:34,720 brother, took all this information over to Billy. 303 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:41,640 And Billy was OK, I have kids. And he saw the pictures and he 304 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:46,120 was willing to do adna. Test How long did it take from 305 00:18:46,120 --> 00:18:51,160 when your mom said you're on your own to you have potentially 306 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:53,920 identified Billy as your biological father? 307 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:57,000 It wasn't too long, it was a couple of months. 308 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:01,160 How are you feeling? Like you're so close to getting 309 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:02,960 that confirmation? How are you feeling at that 310 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:06,440 point? Well, it turns out that Billy 311 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:09,880 was kind of like a local celebrity in that area. 312 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:13,840 I was able to find all kinds of stuff online, YouTube. 313 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:15,880 He was a musician. He sang. 314 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:20,840 He he had been in some movies. He had multiple bands over the 315 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:26,960 years and, and I had access to newspapers.com at one point. 316 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:30,720 I found so much stuff. I saw pictures of him and his 317 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:32,520 brother. And I have to tell you, when I 318 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:35,360 saw a picture of his brother, it was like a profile picture. 319 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:39,760 And I don't know if you can see I have like this little like 320 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:43,600 line on my nose, but I saw this newspaper clipping of his 321 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:45,320 brother. It was just a random thing. 322 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:47,480 He was getting a haircut. He was a hippie. 323 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:50,200 And he they just did this little article on him getting his 324 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:52,080 haircut. And it was like this profile 325 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:53,840 shot. And he had my nose. 326 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:56,600 I thought, Oh my gosh, that's my nose. 327 00:19:57,440 --> 00:19:59,960 But I thought maybe I'm just trying to see it. 328 00:19:59,960 --> 00:20:02,880 And he had my hair. I have really dark hair. 329 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:05,720 His hair was about this long and it was dark, curly. 330 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:08,080 And he had this little dimple in his nose. 331 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:11,400 And I thought, wow. Nobody in my family has that. 332 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:13,320 And my brother's nose is slightly different. 333 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:15,640 So it was kind of funny. I was like, hmm. 334 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:18,960 And then I just kept looking at pictures of Billy going, is he 335 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,360 my dad, you know, and younger pictures of him. 336 00:20:22,360 --> 00:20:24,920 I was like, whoa. And again, I'm thinking, I'm 337 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:29,400 just trying to see it. I'm trying to see that there's 338 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:32,040 similarities. So I tried not to get my hopes 339 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:37,200 up and I had asked the his sister if this comes back that 340 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:39,880 he's not, will you help me try to figure out? 341 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,160 She says, Oh yeah, you know, we've got all. 342 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:45,120 She had a big family and we got cousin so and so and cousin so 343 00:20:45,120 --> 00:20:46,400 and so. Oh, it might be him. 344 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:51,160 He was a ladies man and she was going to help me figure out who 345 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:57,000 to approach next. A couple weeks later, I was 346 00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:00,120 getting ready to go to work and I checked my e-mail. 347 00:21:00,120 --> 00:21:04,720 It said the results were in. I'm looking at it on my phone 348 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:08,760 and it said Billy or William is your father. 349 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:14,160 And it just like said that. And I was blown away that I 350 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:18,560 actually found him that quickly, like I found him on my own. 351 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:23,160 And the fact that that family name, I would just for some 352 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,120 reason, when I had seen that first tree, it was a very small 353 00:21:26,120 --> 00:21:27,920 tree. It only went up to like maybe 354 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:29,640 grandparents or great grandparents. 355 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:32,880 And I just gravitated towards that family. 356 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:36,840 And then finding the sister, she was all over the Internet with 357 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:40,480 different trees and contacting her and her actually responding 358 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:43,040 to me. It just was crazy that it just 359 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:48,080 boom, boom, boom, it came back and he was, he was the person. 360 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:50,280 Wow, I mean, it's incredible, right? 361 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:53,160 Because it, it really, and I say this all the time, but it really 362 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:59,040 is some parts hard work and and being a great detective and then 363 00:21:59,360 --> 00:22:02,120 also a little bit of luck, like you didn't go down the wrong 364 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:04,640 path at first. You you picked the right one. 365 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:07,600 Yes. So what happens next? 366 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,200 So she claimed that she couldn't hear very well. 367 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:12,560 So all we did was communicate through e-mail. 368 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:14,400 And I said, can I please call you? 369 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:15,840 I got the results, can I call you? 370 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:17,800 And she said no, no, I would just e-mail me. 371 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:21,120 And I, so I emailed her, said well, say hello to your new 372 00:22:21,120 --> 00:22:23,560 niece. She was like, Oh my gosh. 373 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:27,520 She asked me again, you know, send me all this information so 374 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:31,080 that I can show him that you're his daughter. 375 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:33,920 So I sent it to her. She and her husband went to talk 376 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:41,000 to him and she came back and told me that he was shocked and 377 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:43,440 would welcome a phone call from me. 378 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:49,280 She was given the OK to give me his phone number and this was 379 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,480 like on a Friday that she came back and said I got the results 380 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,600 on a Thursday, She talked to him on a Friday. 381 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,600 I waited till Saturday morning and I called him. 382 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,720 That was crazy. Yeah, take me through that. 383 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:05,360 Like you waited a little bit, but how was the conversation? 384 00:23:05,360 --> 00:23:08,040 So I got up the nerve to call him. 385 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:13,640 He picked up and the first thing I noticed was his voice was so 386 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:17,000 like cool. He just sounded like a cool guy. 387 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,720 He's like, well, I guess you're my daughter. 388 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:24,160 What do you want to know? He was, he was so nice. 389 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:28,080 He's just started telling me about his life, about his 390 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,280 career. I asked him, like, are you 391 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:31,920 married? Do you have other kids? 392 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:36,920 He was a lifelong bachelor. He actually had no kids that he 393 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:40,960 knew of. And he was married for a very 394 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:44,200 short time to a woman that's actually like three years older 395 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:45,960 than me. And that was it. 396 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:49,920 He other other than that, he he was a lifelong bachelor, 397 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:55,840 musician, entertainer. He was big into Dixieland jazz. 398 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,680 He played in New Orleans for many years. 399 00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:01,240 He was pretty successful at that. 400 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:06,080 He made a a good career out of out of it and people knew his 401 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:10,720 name and he enjoyed his life. And he even said I would have 402 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,520 made a terrible dad. I was always traveling and you 403 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:15,720 know, and I'm like, I don't think so. 404 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:19,240 I think you can't really say how good of a dad you would have 405 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,360 been since you didn't know. And who knows? 406 00:24:22,360 --> 00:24:25,480 You would have, you know, you would have made it work. 407 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,160 But that's neither here nor there. 408 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:34,960 Did he remember your mother? So that was difficult because I 409 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:38,240 think he was a lot like she was in that they were just la, la, 410 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:43,160 la, just dating everybody. And, you know, he's, he saw her 411 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,880 picture and he was just kind of like maybe. 412 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,800 And I told him, you know, she would have been either a maid at 413 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:54,680 some hotel or a waitress. Those are the things that she 414 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:58,360 did as jobs. And that kind of ring rang a 415 00:24:58,360 --> 00:25:01,360 bell for him. He's like, well, I do remember 416 00:25:01,360 --> 00:25:04,440 dating a waitress and I, you know, I was a security guard at 417 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,840 the time and he's like, I think that's when I knew her. 418 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:12,120 And, and then at one point he even said, I think I had coffee 419 00:25:12,120 --> 00:25:13,680 with her and I noticed she was pregnant. 420 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:15,680 And I remember thinking, is that my kid? 421 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:19,520 And we didn't talk about it. We just kind of had coffee 422 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:21,480 together. But she had been dating all 423 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:24,240 these different people, and apparently he had been too. 424 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,200 So it wasn't necessarily like a boyfriend, girlfriend kind of 425 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,760 relationship. So it was easy to dismiss. 426 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:31,760 Kind of like a fling. Yeah. 427 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,440 Yeah, he just called it an affair. 428 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:39,040 You know, a fling. So once you found him, did you 429 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:43,360 go back to your mom and brother and tell them? 430 00:25:43,360 --> 00:25:48,000 So I'll start with mom. I decided not to tell her right 431 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,840 away because she had made it very clear she was not 432 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:56,360 interested in talking about it. And at one point I think I asked 433 00:25:56,360 --> 00:25:58,560 her, well, if I ever find him, do you want me to let you know? 434 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:03,200 No. OK, I can't imagine not knowing 435 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,280 who fathered my children, but that's just how she was. 436 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:10,160 And I've heard that on some of the other stories that you've 437 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:14,240 had that the mother's just kind of like, I'm, I'm glad. 438 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,080 They just kind of check out they they push it down. 439 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,720 I mean, I think that denial and doesn't sound like your mom was 440 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,040 ashamed of her past, but I think sometimes that factors in. 441 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,440 It I think it does too, and we even talked about that and she 442 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,880 talked about how much fun she had She and she's like, I have 443 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,760 no regrets and I even tried to tell her I don't I have no 444 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,760 judgement whatsoever. Whatever you did it, I don't 445 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:38,920 care. You know, I just I want to know 446 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,360 who my dad is. She's like, well, good, I'm glad 447 00:26:41,360 --> 00:26:44,560 you don't judge me because I don't regret anything. 448 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,840 You know, she's have like this attitude. 449 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,440 I'm like, OK, but sure wish you'd give me a little more to 450 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,440 go on to. But she's just got mad at me and 451 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:57,520 it was awful. So I did not tell her. 452 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:04,480 Now, my brother, he was still like, I don't care what you find 453 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,080 out. Whatever doesn't concern me, I 454 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:12,120 have no interest. But obviously when I found out 455 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,320 who our father was, I said I found him. 456 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:17,400 He's like, really? Yeah. 457 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,000 Do you want to know anything about him? 458 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:20,960 I don't know. Not really. 459 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:27,600 OK, so he's kind of a macho guy. If he was interested, he wasn't 460 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:32,680 about to let me know that. So Billy gathered up a bunch of 461 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:37,520 pictures and things and he sent me a little package and it was 462 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,400 kind of cute. He had double S of everything. 463 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:43,560 He had two of everything. And I started looking at these 464 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:47,200 photos, and there was one, one or two that when he was younger 465 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,040 that I thought, Oh, my gosh, my brother looks so much like him, 466 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,360 it's crazy. I didn't really look like him a 467 00:27:53,360 --> 00:27:56,640 lot. I had his brother's nose, and I 468 00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:01,680 had dark, curly Italian hair. I remember texting my brother 469 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:05,480 and I said, can I send you a couple pictures? 470 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,280 Meaning I was going to take a picture with my phone and text 471 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,040 it to him. Can I send you some? 472 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:16,640 He's like, yeah, I guess. So I sent it to him and he did 473 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,920 not respond except for I think he might have said, oh, wow. 474 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:24,120 It's like, yeah, oh, wow. And he really did not comment 475 00:28:24,120 --> 00:28:26,800 further. Well, later on that day or the 476 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:30,240 next day, he said, do you have a picture of Jim when he was in 477 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,800 high school? So Jim, the one we thought was 478 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:37,000 our dad, I said I think so. So I dug around and I found a 479 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,480 young picture of picture of young Jim, and I sent it to him. 480 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,160 I had no idea what he was doing with it. 481 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,960 Well a couple days later he called me or texted me and he 482 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:54,840 said so I took a picture of Jim and Billy to work and I asked 483 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:56,520 all my Co workers who do I look like? 484 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,240 Which one? They all said Billy. 485 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,680 And he was like I don't know if I can swear on here but he said 486 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:09,120 oh you know the F word? And I just kind of laughed. 487 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,560 I'm like well you look a lot like him. 488 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,240 He said, OK, I guess he's my father too. 489 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,800 And then I don't know how much later it was a couple weeks, he 490 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,640 said, I I want to do a DNADNA test as well. 491 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:26,200 OK, so we got that going and I was upset thinking, well, what 492 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,640 if he comes back and he's just my half brother? 493 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,480 You know, that would be crazy. And I was I, I remember thinking 494 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:35,160 how upset I was going to be if that actually did happen, but it 495 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,880 didn't came back. Billy's your father. 496 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,560 And so I told him that, and he's like, wow. 497 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:45,440 OK, So he started learning a little bit about him. 498 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,000 Billy and I talked all the time. The first conversation I had 499 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,160 with him that Saturday morning was about 45 minutes. 500 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:56,320 And I hung up the phone, and I thought, wow, he's really cool. 501 00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,520 And I love his voice. And he was so nice to talk to. 502 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:03,000 He was just easy to talk to. And he was just like, oh, OK, 503 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:04,960 this happened. Oh, I guess I have kids. 504 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:06,760 You know, he didn't bother him at all. 505 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,520 Yeah. And his brother was like, I have 506 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:12,480 a niece and a nephew. Yay. 507 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,240 So you're talking all the time. Do you make plans to meet in 508 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:17,720 person? Definitely. 509 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,440 So I was, you know, in Maine, he's in Florida. 510 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:22,440 He'd already said he doesn't have a lot of money. 511 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,560 He can't really travel. I said that's all right, I'll 512 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,800 figure something out. But right about that time, he 513 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:31,400 was getting set up to have some pretty serious heart surgery. 514 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:33,720 So we had to wait till that happened. 515 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,560 So that was over the course of like two or three months. 516 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,320 He almost actually died during the surgery. 517 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:42,560 I remember his sister was keeping me in for his sister and 518 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:46,200 brother, like letting me know, like he's not doing good. 519 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,160 You better call him in the hospital. 520 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,560 And and I remember thinking, God, do not do that to me. 521 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:55,920 Like I haven't even met him yet. I just found him, you know, 522 00:30:56,040 --> 00:31:01,000 please don't die. And he made it through. 523 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:07,520 We had some recovery and then I planned a trip down there and 524 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,840 yeah, I was super excited. He was so cute. 525 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,480 He's like, I made a list of all the things that we can do and 526 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,160 all the places I want to show you. 527 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:19,720 And sure enough, I fly down there. 528 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:25,520 He meets me at the baggage claim and it was just really cool. 529 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,440 He gave me a big hug. He he said, you want to go to 530 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,280 lunch? He takes me to lunch and I 531 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:36,360 remember taking our first selfie together and I was amazing to me 532 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:40,880 to finally have like, this is my biological father and he's so 533 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:45,240 cool and we had a nice visit. I didn't stay with him. 534 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,720 I stayed in a hotel and he picked me up every day and we 535 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,160 went and did all his things he wanted to do. 536 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,760 And I met a ton of his friends. I got to hear him play. 537 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:58,560 He plays the trumpet. I got to hear him play and it 538 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:01,200 was just really fun. He was at the time, he was in 539 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:05,040 his late 70s. And I thought, this guy is still 540 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,600 going. He'd call me up and say, I 541 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,080 wanted to call you now because I'm getting, I'm going out with 542 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:15,040 my friends and I'll be out late and I'm like, wow, he's got like 543 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:20,200 a more social life than I do. And yeah, it was pretty neat. 544 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:24,480 So I met him and he, he totally looked like the, you know, 545 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,640 Italian guy with the shirt unbuttoned and the jewelry and 546 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:33,240 the nice shoes and, and flirting with everybody. 547 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:35,320 Yeah, it was, he was pretty cool. 548 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,840 It was fun. We connected really well right 549 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:42,480 out, right out the gate. He would sometimes ask, you 550 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:44,520 know, about my brother, does he know about me? 551 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:46,200 Do you think he wants to meet me? 552 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,680 And I just, I didn't want to hurt his feelings. 553 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,480 But I would say he's getting there. 554 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,280 You know, he's warming up to the idea. 555 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:59,440 You know, he had to come to that on his own time and he finally 556 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:01,400 did. My brother end up going down 557 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:02,360 there. They met. 558 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:09,080 I have one picture of the the two of them together and I ended 559 00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:10,480 up going down like a second time. 560 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,800 I brought my two sons with me so they get to meet their 561 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,240 grandfather. That was really nice. 562 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:21,120 That was really fun. My brother has one child and I 563 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,200 have two, so he has three grandchildren. 564 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:29,640 He never did meet my brother's daughter, so yeah, we had a 565 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:35,040 relationship for a few years and he passed away in 2020. 566 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:43,560 So it's about four years, yeah. And how did you navigate that? 567 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:48,520 I went from being so grateful for what I did have and what we 568 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:53,840 were able to form between us. I went from that to being, you 569 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,640 know, this really bites. I didn't meet him until he was 570 00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:00,080 an old man and I didn't have enough time. 571 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,160 I went back and forth with those. 572 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,960 I didn't want to be ungrateful for what I had because I'd seen 573 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,800 so many DNA stories, you know, the rejection and everything. 574 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:12,560 And I did not have the rejection. 575 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:17,480 So I was so thankful for what I had and that I had met him and 576 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:24,280 his siblings and some cousins and and I still have contact 577 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,639 with a lot of his family. His sister won't talk to me. 578 00:34:27,639 --> 00:34:30,080 I don't know why she just kind of got weird about the whole 579 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:32,560 thing. But I will add the sister, she 580 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:37,679 also had a set of twins, she had twin daughters and they were 581 00:34:37,679 --> 00:34:39,760 born like 8 months before we were. 582 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:41,280 So that was kind of. Neat. 583 00:34:42,199 --> 00:34:45,520 And I met one of them and we looked a lot of like, a lot of 584 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,679 like. So it's fun to see family that 585 00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:53,560 that you look like because I only knew half of my family. 586 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:56,800 Well, first of all, I just want to say I'm so glad that you did 587 00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:00,440 find him before he passed, because I'm sure you hear a lot 588 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:04,120 of those stories too of. Yeah, I always feel so bad. 589 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:06,600 Yeah. But but I think it's important 590 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:08,480 to acknowledge, like, both things, right? 591 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:13,560 Like it's OK to be disappointed and however you feel about the 592 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:17,520 lost time. Have you found a way to make 593 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:21,440 peace with that? I do think about him a lot and I 594 00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:24,800 have so many wonderful pictures of him. 595 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:30,360 I have two movies that he was in that was kind of fun to watch 596 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:34,760 that when he was younger. And I actually have contact with 597 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,520 his best friend. So every now and then his best 598 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:41,840 friend and I will talk. His brother had passed away like 599 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:46,160 two months before he did, so I don't have anybody in that 600 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:49,880 family anymore because his sister won't talk to me and her 601 00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,640 daughters. They just got really weird about 602 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:57,800 my reasons for finding the family, and I don't know. 603 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:00,360 So I just had to kind of let that go, you know? 604 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,680 Were they concerned that you were after money or something 605 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,920 like that? Or I think so money, property. 606 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,000 And it's like he didn't have hardly anything and I don't 607 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,560 care. I, that wasn't it at all. 608 00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:15,600 And I wasn't going to try to defend myself constantly. 609 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:19,120 It's like, OK, think what you want to think, but I got what I 610 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:25,480 need out of it and met him. I I know his whole family line. 611 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:27,800 His sister was an amazing genealogist. 612 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:32,960 She'd actually gone to Italy and gone to all the places she'd 613 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,000 gotten Italian records translated and things. 614 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:39,880 So she had a really, really good family tree already. 615 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:44,320 And I'm thankful for that. I have a lot of the family 616 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,120 history. There's so many interesting 617 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:49,400 families. You know, like my father's 618 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:55,000 cousin was an inventor. His grandparents were inventors. 619 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:59,560 His mother actually held the patent for inline skates for 25 620 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:02,080 years. She invented those. 621 00:37:02,720 --> 00:37:05,680 Yeah, she had the patent for that, but she could never get 622 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:09,880 anybody to build them. So eventually the patent ran out 623 00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:11,760 and someone else got credit for it. 624 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:15,320 So it was a little tidbit about her that was kind of neat. 625 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,840 She had a couple of sisters that were Rockettes. 626 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:22,440 They were models. They were all just beautiful 627 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:27,200 women and had interest. There's a lot of interesting 628 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:31,920 family stories. One of my father's cousins was a 629 00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:37,480 beauty queen in Connecticut. His father was a championship 630 00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,800 boxer. Just a lot of neat stuff to find 631 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:46,360 out and the pitchers are great and so I am very thankful for 632 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:48,440 what I got. I got to meet him. 633 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:54,800 I I know I'm very lucky in that sense and I don't know what else 634 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,360 I could ask for really at this point. 635 00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:02,400 Have you gotten in touch with any of the Italian side? 636 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:07,080 Like culturally, a lot of people will start cooking recipes or 637 00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:08,720 they go and visit Oh. My gosh. 638 00:38:08,720 --> 00:38:12,320 Well, well, guess who latched on to that? 639 00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:16,440 My brother. He the resistant 1. 640 00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:20,240 He, yes, he is now fluent in Italian. 641 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:22,920 He is actually in Italy right now. 642 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:25,880 He's been to Italy multiple times. 643 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:28,760 I had contact with a distant cousin. 644 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:32,760 We're still not sure exactly where our lines meet, but she's 645 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:36,680 on like a couple of different DNA sites and she matches me. 646 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:40,200 And her name is Lena and she lives in the town that a lot of 647 00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:44,120 our family was from. And so my brother had asked, 648 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:47,400 hey, do you do you have contact with anybody that's in Italy? 649 00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:49,200 I said, yeah, as a matter of fact, I do. 650 00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:53,040 So they connected. He went over there. 651 00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:56,800 She he met her family like her husband and two sons. 652 00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:02,080 And while he was doing that, he sent me a picture of They took a 653 00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:06,600 selfie of him and the family, and for a minute I couldn't 654 00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:10,480 figure out which one was him. Her two sons and my brother look 655 00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:15,040 so much alike that it took me a minute or two to go. 656 00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:17,400 Which one is my brother? Wow. 657 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:22,240 Oh that is so funny that he is the one that's like oh. 658 00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:24,400 Yeah, yeah, he's all about it now. 659 00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,680 And he always look, he always had people asking him if he was 660 00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:32,880 Italian or Greek. He's very Italian looking and he 661 00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:37,320 hated when people ask him that. And now he makes his own pasta, 662 00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:41,600 he makes his own sauce, he has an Italian tutor, and Oh yeah, 663 00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:45,160 he's embraced it. Oh, that's so awesome. 664 00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:48,040 Yeah. Is your mother still alive? 665 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:53,840 My mother's still alive. I was in the car with her one 666 00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:57,400 day taking her to her sister's memorial. 667 00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:01,880 And it was just the two of us. And I said, so I did end up 668 00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:06,720 finding out who our father was. And before I even got it out of 669 00:40:06,720 --> 00:40:09,400 my mouth, she said, I'm not interested. 670 00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:14,640 She didn't want to know. OK, we'll shut that conversation 671 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:18,200 down. So she knows that Jim is not our 672 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:20,400 father and that it is someone else. 673 00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:24,120 But when she talks to people, she will talk about Jim being 674 00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:25,880 our dad. She'll say, my brother looks so 675 00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,880 much like Jim and I don't know why you're not as tall as he 676 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:31,920 was. Jim was like 6 four and my 677 00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:37,080 brother was like 5-9 and and my mom would say, I don't know why 678 00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:39,880 you're not as tall as he is. You got the jeans. 679 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,280 And this is way after we knew that that's not our dad and that 680 00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:45,560 she was told that he was not our dad. 681 00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:51,040 I think that she was in love with Jim and that was like the 682 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:55,040 love of her life and the fact that she had his kids was like 683 00:40:55,040 --> 00:41:00,920 the only thing she had of him. And when I crushed that dream it 684 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:04,600 she just couldn't handle it. It just not something she wanted 685 00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:08,160 to believe and it was like taking that last thing away from 686 00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:12,240 her that she had of him because she did have a relationship with 687 00:41:12,240 --> 00:41:14,120 them. They had a long, longish 688 00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:20,400 relationship, but she just figured her her her dates wrong. 689 00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:23,760 I think she really did think that he was our father and that 690 00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,160 she just, you know, messed up the dates or something. 691 00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:28,920 She always said we were born early. 692 00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:33,880 Oh, you were, you were due in October, but we were born in 693 00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:37,400 August. Like the reason for that? 694 00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:44,120 Yeah, as I'm talking to you now, you really seem like you are OK 695 00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:46,520 with it or that you're at peace with it. 696 00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:48,720 And if I'm wrong, you can tell me I'm wrong. 697 00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:53,040 How did you get to this place? Honestly, that short period of 698 00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:58,160 time that I didn't know who my father was was scary to me and 699 00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:03,040 very uncomfortable. So just being able to figure out 700 00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:08,360 who it was, it settled that part of me and I just said whatever I 701 00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:13,320 get out of it will be a bonus. And I got way more than I ever 702 00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:18,280 really thought or expected. And that's, that's sort of why 703 00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:22,120 I'm, I'm OK with it. I actually got like a little, I 704 00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:27,320 got a little, it's his signature with a little trumpet on the 705 00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,160 bottom. I can't get it to now it's 706 00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:33,320 upside down, but but his his signature. 707 00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:35,960 And then there's a little trumpet that he used to draw on 708 00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:40,800 the end of it, and I got that. Alyssa has a yeah, she has a 709 00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:44,120 tattoo with his signature and a trumpet. 710 00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:47,760 Yeah. And that's my little dedication 711 00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:51,760 to him. Yeah, because we, what we did 712 00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:55,680 have for four, four years, almost to the day was really 713 00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:58,840 special to me. And I'm really glad I got to 714 00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:01,800 meet him. I'm bummed that he passed away 715 00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:07,200 in my eyes too soon. But you know, I, I still have a 716 00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:09,600 lot of memories. I have pictures, I have all 717 00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,120 kinds of stuff. I got all his, almost all his 718 00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:14,400 belongings. I have his ashes. 719 00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:18,560 His best friend made a, took an old trumpet of his and put his 720 00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:22,000 ashes in it and sealed it and sent it to me. 721 00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:25,120 So I have his ashes. That's really. 722 00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:28,920 Special Yeah. My mom had such a different 723 00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:31,360 attitude about it. My brother had such a different 724 00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:36,800 attitude about it, and I just had to come to terms with 725 00:43:37,240 --> 00:43:40,800 everybody handles it differently and I just need to worry about 726 00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:43,520 myself. I got my truth out of it, which 727 00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:45,360 was the most important thing to me. 728 00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:49,280 Like I said, that period of time that I didn't know was awful. 729 00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:53,600 It's just awful. When I first met Billy, I said 730 00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:56,320 I've never had a dad on my birth certificate. 731 00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:59,480 Would you be willing to be put on that? 732 00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:01,520 And he said, yeah, in a heartbeat. 733 00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:04,040 What do I whatever I have to do, I'll do it. 734 00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:10,280 Ancestry DNA or those website DNA is not like a legal DNA test 735 00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:13,560 that could be used in court. I said, well, we need to do like 736 00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:18,760 a legal DNA test so that we have that documented like that. 737 00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:23,000 And so we all did it and got the results. 738 00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:27,560 And of course it was, you know, 99.999, you know, probability. 739 00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:32,360 And so I had what was considered basically the only DNA test that 740 00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:37,520 would would be used in court. So now that I have that, I knew 741 00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:40,960 that I could probably get my birth certificate fixed. 742 00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:45,200 And it turned out to be a blessing that my stepdad was 743 00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:49,320 never actually my adopted father, because had that been 744 00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:52,400 the case then I probably would not have been able to change the 745 00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:58,000 birth certificate, especially like getting him involved. 746 00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:02,320 But it was never their birth certificate was never changed. 747 00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:08,480 So there was nobody listed. And so after after he passed 748 00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:11,640 away, I it was actually pretty easy. 749 00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:15,080 I submitted the paperwork, there was some forms to fill out. 750 00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:18,840 I had my brother do the same. We got them notarized, sent to 751 00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:22,200 the courts and they sent us new birth certificates. 752 00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:24,680 Both of us have him on our birth certificate now. 753 00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:27,800 How incredible. With that little Side Story you 754 00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:32,360 told at the beginning of your stepfather not legally adopting 755 00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:36,040 you, it ended up working out like that's incredible. 756 00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:41,480 It goes back to that hard work and a little bit of luck, right? 757 00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:45,520 Exactly, Yeah. What advice do you have for a 758 00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:49,360 parent who might be keeping adna surprise from their child? 759 00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:55,880 I think that a parent that has adna surprise or secret should 760 00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:59,120 share that with that child as soon as they think that child 761 00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:02,480 could handle it and even possibly set up counseling 762 00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:05,800 before they drop that. I have a friend that had a child 763 00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:09,920 and she wasn't with the child's father, but she married soon 764 00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:12,880 after that and they raised the child with her thinking that her 765 00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:17,080 husband was the father. And I always told her right from 766 00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:18,840 the beginning and she knew my whole story. 767 00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:21,760 I always said to her, please don't keep that a secret. 768 00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:27,520 Please tell her like before she's like a teenager and she 769 00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:33,160 went to counseling for it about it, to talk to somebody about 770 00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:36,200 when would be a good time to tell their daughter. 771 00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:40,800 And they ended up telling her and it went really well. 772 00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:44,360 It was upsetting, of course, in the beginning, but it went 773 00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:46,640 really well. And I just remember saying to 774 00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:50,080 her, you know, I'm really glad you did that because I know it 775 00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:53,560 was hard, but she we need to know. 776 00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:56,920 Like I was that kid once, like I didn't have a dad. 777 00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:00,680 I didn't know him. Parents should really put their 778 00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:06,960 child 1st and realized that they need to know the truth for so 779 00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:09,200 many reasons. I shouldn't even have to list 780 00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:11,440 that, although it's a hard conversation. 781 00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:14,920 They just need to do it. The the child deserves to have 782 00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:18,160 their truth known. What advice do you have for 783 00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:22,640 someone who just uncovered Adna Surprise? 784 00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:25,080 Well, I know that I couldn't breathe for a few minutes. 785 00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:30,560 I say breathe and take it slow and and just as much as you can 786 00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:32,840 handle. You know, you may have to put it 787 00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:35,840 on the back burner for a little while until it sinks in or you 788 00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:38,600 figure out your next move. But you deserve to know the 789 00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:42,280 truth. So if that's what you seek, you 790 00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:45,480 shouldn't let anybody else's feelings get in the way. 791 00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:50,640 Because I know I felt really whole finally when I found out 792 00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:53,120 everything. People deserve to know who their 793 00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:58,200 biological parents are, whether you're adopted or whatever the 794 00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:00,040 scenario is. It's a feeling you can't 795 00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:02,280 describe. I remember asking a friend of 796 00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:06,160 mine growing up, I'm like, you have your dad, try to imagine 797 00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:09,920 not knowing him. Try to imagine it and she would 798 00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:12,360 say, I can't. I can't imagine not knowing my 799 00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:15,160 father so well. That's how I feel. 800 00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:18,480 It's a weird feeling. It's it's not a hurtful feeling, 801 00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:22,520 it's just an empty feeling. Alyssa, thank you so much for 802 00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:25,320 coming on the podcast and sharing your story. 803 00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:30,120 I loved hearing your outlook and your journey. 804 00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:34,320 I hope that you make it over to Italy and I wish you the 805 00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:37,000 absolute best. Oh, thank you. 806 00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:40,840 There is a plan for my brother and I to go to Italy together in 807 00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:43,800 two years. So yeah, we're planning to do 808 00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:46,440 that, Sure. And I can't wait to see where my 809 00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:50,280 family is from. Thanks again to Alyssa for 810 00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:53,480 sharing her story. If you have Adna Surprise that 811 00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:56,360 you'd like to share, please submit your story at 812 00:48:56,360 --> 00:49:00,680 dnasurprises.com. And remember, for early access 813 00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:06,200 to ad free episodes, join me over on patreon@patreon.com/DNA 814 00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:08,440 Surprises. Until next time. 815 00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:13,920 This episode of DNA Surprises was hosted, produced and edited 816 00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:18,480 by me Alexis Ourselt. It was mixed and mastered by 817 00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:21,720 Josh Ourselt of Siren Recording Studios.