1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,600 Even my grandmother, who I never met, Mildred, my father's 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:08,400 mother, knew. And I found out that like my 3 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:12,840 father's mother, my grandmother Mildred, and my aunt, my 4 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:19,080 father's sister, offered to take me and raise me from this attic 5 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:22,200 mother that my father had an affair with. 6 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:26,600 Now, granted, you know, back in the 70s that probably wouldn't 7 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:29,440 have been an easy task because things were different back then. 8 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:33,720 But to know that because I always wanted someone to save 9 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:36,000 me. Like, like I said, I found out 10 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:38,800 through my DNA search just a few years ago, all these relatives 11 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:42,320 on my mother's side that I never knew existed that lived well 12 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:46,240 into my 20s. And that's really painful to 13 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:48,960 know that there are people out there that you're that is your 14 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:52,960 blood, but they can't save you or they won't, or they don't 15 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:56,280 know to save you. I didn't even know to call them 16 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:57,840 and say, can I please live with you? 17 00:00:57,840 --> 00:00:59,160 Because I didn't know they existed. 18 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:03,240 Welcome to DNA Surprises, a podcast that delves into the 19 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:05,880 world of unexpected DNA discoveries. 20 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:12,360 I'm your host, Alexis ourselves. In July 2021, my life took a 21 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:17,280 surprising turn when I found out that I'm an NPE, a person who 22 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:20,080 has experienced a non paternal event. 23 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:24,600 In other words, my biological father isn't who I thought he 24 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:27,600 was. Join me as we explore the 25 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:32,720 stories of NP, ES, adoptees and donor conceived people and their 26 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:35,520 families. Get ready to unravel the 27 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:39,680 astonishing journeys that begin with a simple DNA test. 28 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:47,320 This is DNA surprises. You can't unring a bell after a 29 00:01:47,320 --> 00:01:51,840 DNA surprise is uncovered, after contact is made with new found 30 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:56,600 relatives. What's done is done, which is 31 00:01:56,600 --> 00:02:00,240 why some people are hesitant to dig into the truth in the 1st 32 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:02,920 place. You never know what's waiting 33 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:07,840 for you on the other side. In this week's episode, Jeremy 34 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:11,480 shares why he didn't decide to take his test to confirm the 35 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:14,880 identity of his biological father until his daughters 36 00:02:14,920 --> 00:02:19,200 googled his family. After a tumultuous childhood 37 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:22,560 fraught with instability and abuse, he couldn't bear the 38 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:27,240 thought of rejection. Jeremy also reveals what happens 39 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:31,080 when he finally decided to take that test and make contact with 40 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:33,400 his paternal family for the first time. 41 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:37,840 Before we begin this episode, I do want to mention that there is 42 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:40,800 discussion of childhood abuse and suicide. 43 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:44,400 Thank you for sharing your story, Jeremy. 44 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:51,320 My name is Jeremy and I am 54 and born and raised in 45 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:54,360 Baltimore. Thank you for having me on as I 46 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:57,040 tell this story. While there is a lot of trauma 47 00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:01,440 in the beginning, there can be a love story ending to adna 48 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:05,520 surprise story and mine is one of those. 49 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:09,440 It continues to evolve. I was raised by a mother who's 50 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:13,400 an addict, single mother, pills and boos. 51 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,760 She was married a lot. My last name has been changed 52 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:20,160 multiple times as they adopted me into the family. 53 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:22,600 This new husband she had, my name's been changed like 4 54 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:25,920 times. Spent the first seven or eight 55 00:03:25,920 --> 00:03:29,200 years in a very small 2 bedroom apartment in Baltimore City. 56 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:34,320 I don't recall a lot of of men there but I was very young. 57 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:37,200 I was told that a lot of men were in and out of the apartment 58 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:43,480 with her, and to be honest, during those very early years, 59 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:50,160 as an adult now, the only thing I can recall is that I probably 60 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:52,240 was stuck to her leg like Velcro. 61 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:56,400 You know, It was just me and her against the world, no one else. 62 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:00,680 No siblings, no father, no grandparents. 63 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:06,440 My grandmother was in the picture a little bit, but I can 64 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:11,040 recall times of being left at the kitchen table in this little 65 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:15,520 apartment for hours while she made me eat some crazy liver and 66 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:18,480 onions kind of thing that no kid would want to eat and the 67 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:22,200 torture with that. I've seen pictures of me years 68 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:24,800 ago as a small child, black and blue. 69 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:29,560 I recently reached out to one of those husbands that she had. 70 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,440 When I reached out to him, he was a very, very nice man. 71 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:35,120 I asked him what had happened during my childhood. 72 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:36,960 They were married for about 6 months. 73 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:39,280 He told me where I was around a year old. 74 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:42,440 Her addiction is what broke up their marriage. 75 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:45,360 And I asked him, did you ever witness any abuse? 76 00:04:46,280 --> 00:04:50,120 And unfortunately he said yes to the point that I begged her to 77 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:55,320 let me take you to the hospital. And when I'm talking to him, I 78 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:58,720 was like, you know, that tracks. That makes sense, you know. 79 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:01,480 But then I started going like this, wait, what year was that? 80 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,280 Wait, I was one years old and she's beating me to the point of 81 00:05:04,280 --> 00:05:07,560 hospitalization again. It kind of tracks. 82 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:11,160 She married again when I was 8 years old, which is still the 83 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:14,280 last name I have today. That marriage maybe lasted 10 84 00:05:14,280 --> 00:05:17,320 years. That's when I recall a lot of 85 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:20,560 the horrific beatings. I I I recall like maybe an 8 86 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:22,400 year old birthday with a fat lip. 87 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:27,520 As a young child I would have to help her drive the car so she 88 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:30,920 would show up multiple times if she had to pick me up from 89 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:32,760 somewhere. Maybe my grandmother's or some 90 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:36,520 school function. Sunglasses on at night to hide 91 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:40,960 her blurry eyes of course. Slurred speech and it was pretty 92 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:46,840 common for me in the passenger seat to bring my left arm over 93 00:05:46,840 --> 00:05:50,760 and quietly turn the steering wheel a little bit up so we 94 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,800 wouldn't rear into the parked car where we're heading towards. 95 00:05:54,840 --> 00:05:58,200 She'd always slap my hand away and then in 5 minutes later I 96 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:01,040 would be doing again. I've done a lot of therapy and 97 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,480 and a lot of folks out there listening this probably can 98 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:08,640 agree and and understand. Single mother only child an 99 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:12,440 addict you get something called an attachment wound or a mother 100 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:17,240 wound. So when a baby does not connect 101 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:21,120 at that crucial time during its infancy with his with his 102 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:24,760 mother, he ends up searching for the rest of his life. 103 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:28,160 And that's what I still do to this day. 104 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:32,320 So when I was running away as an early teenager and teenager, I 105 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:36,640 would run to friends houses and basically just get mothered by 106 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:38,840 their mother. And I would eat it up. 107 00:06:38,840 --> 00:06:41,320 Oh my God, it was so good. I'd have to sleep on sofas or in 108 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:44,960 a sleeping bag on the floor. As a teenager, I worked at a 109 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:48,480 local hospital in Baltimore and ended up working with a lot of, 110 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:51,560 like, soccer moms who had, you know, kids that were much older 111 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:54,240 than me. And they finally found out what 112 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:56,440 was going on, too. And I would spend a lot of time 113 00:06:56,440 --> 00:07:01,800 at their houses running away. My mother would somehow find out 114 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:05,440 where I was, would scream and yell on the phone to the mom who 115 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:07,680 was taking me in for the week or two. 116 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,360 Where's my son? I know you have him. 117 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:12,360 Not fun. Did. 118 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:17,120 You ever ask her about your biological father? 119 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:19,360 And what did she say? Yeah. 120 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:22,920 You know what, it's funny. She would, when I was old 121 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:27,280 enough, probably preteen or teen, she would tell me his name 122 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:32,000 and the fact that she was in touch with him through lawyers. 123 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:36,080 So if I go back to the beginning, she had an affair 124 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:39,240 with a married man, someone she worked with, the person who 125 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,840 owned the business that she worked at and while she was 126 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:44,360 pregnant. And again, this is all second 127 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:48,160 hand knowledge I've learned from my siblings that I've just 128 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:51,240 discovered that we'll get into. They told me a lot about my 129 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:53,960 childhood as they learned it from our father and their 130 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:57,200 mother. When she was pregnant with me, 131 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:02,400 she tried to commit suicide twice with me inside of her, all 132 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,480 to get his attention, try to leave his wife. 133 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:10,840 She would show up at their house while my siblings were five and 134 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:12,720 three. I think at the time when I was 135 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:15,640 born, at least two of my siblings screaming at the top of 136 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:17,480 her lungs. Why won't you see your son? 137 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:22,560 The police were called. She just is unwell and and and 138 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:26,840 is always a a negative factor in a lot of people's lives. 139 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:30,360 I learned a lot about my childhood from my new siblings. 140 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:33,480 I learned after I was born from them and their mother that she 141 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:35,240 was committed into a mental ward. 142 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,360 I don't know who took care of me then. 143 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:43,679 And I'll be honest, the suicide thing, I learned that maybe 144 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:47,640 three years ago and that took me some time to get past that was 145 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:51,280 that was a tough one. I say, I say in the book that 146 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:54,240 I'm writing, my mother had a my mother got pregnant out of 147 00:08:54,240 --> 00:09:00,760 leverage, not out of love, which isn't fun because you just end 148 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:04,720 up asking a lot of why questions about your existence and your 149 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:09,400 identity and and all that. So you came to learn all of this 150 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:13,280 from your siblings after you found them growing up. 151 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:20,240 She told you his name and that she had contact with him through 152 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:24,640 the courts. So was there never any like 153 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:29,480 encouragement of you reaching out to him or him being in your 154 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:32,360 life to your knowledge you know at that time? 155 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:35,480 Yeah, she asked me a lot if you ever want, she would always say 156 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:37,760 if you ever want to reach out to him, I can get in touch with him 157 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:42,720 and listen, you don't want me, I don't want you. 158 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:46,600 I mean, fuck off. I can't comprehend at that age 159 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,240 when she would tell me these things as a preteen and a 160 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:54,160 teenager to get up enough courage to even begin that 161 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:58,000 journey. I'm the child, you know, and, 162 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:01,400 and a lot through this journey and you'll find out a lot of 163 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:05,040 things were asked of me, like why didn't you reach out? 164 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:06,440 Why didn't you do this? Why didn't you? 165 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:10,520 And I'm, I'm the kid, you put me on this earth. 166 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:15,280 It was your choice, you know, and some people in my life who 167 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:17,720 have made those statements still don't get it. 168 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:23,880 So no, no, there's no way up. And I mean, even in my 30s and 169 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:27,120 40s, I would tell my story at a party or something, you know, 170 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:28,600 just say, what was your childhood like? 171 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:30,320 And I'd tell them and they were like, you never want to ask, 172 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:32,320 reach out for your father. And I'm like, fuck no. 173 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:37,200 No, no, no. But it's more like she. 174 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,800 So she didn't truly offer. She kind of parentified you and 175 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:45,360 made it your responsibility, but she didn't say I'm going to take 176 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:47,640 you to go meet your father. No, she never did. 177 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:49,200 Wow. You're bringing up something I 178 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:51,320 never thought of. She probably would have thought 179 00:10:51,680 --> 00:10:55,320 that I would have wanted to go to him and be with him and and 180 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:59,200 leave her all alone. I never even thought about it 181 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:01,800 the way you just said that. Yeah, she she just said if you 182 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:05,760 ever want to, you make up your mind and I can make it happen. 183 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:09,800 Maybe, you know. Yeah, that's funny that you 184 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:11,520 asked that. Thank you for that insight. 185 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:14,480 You probably are familiar with IFS or parts work, internal 186 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:16,680 family systems and that whole parentified. 187 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:19,680 You know, there are parts to me like a performer part. 188 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:23,760 You know, I'm a musician back here and there is no better high 189 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:26,800 than to be on stage for me. I mean, if I can get the 190 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:32,320 adoration and the love that I missed as a child through music, 191 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:36,520 where I can take something in my head and have many, many, many 192 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:39,480 people see it and appreciate it. Oh my God, that's like, there's 193 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:42,640 like 50 mothers in the audience in this bar for me right now, 194 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:45,680 you know, and then there's other parts that are like protector 195 00:11:45,680 --> 00:11:48,200 parts, you know, the one that shuts down and goes, I can't 196 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:50,800 deal with this at all. I'm, I'm, I'm running, you know, 197 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:53,920 you know, and, and, and I've learned there's a lot more parts 198 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:56,720 out there than I'm trying to integrate in this moment. 199 00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:57,840 So. Absolutely. 200 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:03,200 Absolutely. So you had a very tumultuous 201 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:08,240 childhood, to say the least. I mean, just horrific abuse from 202 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:14,640 your mother and men in and out of your life, and no connection 203 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:18,040 to who you know as your biological father. 204 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:22,200 You've got a name. What happens next? 205 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:26,520 Like take me through maybe how you got to the place of wanting 206 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:29,320 to learn more. Finally ran away for the last 207 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:32,720 time in my teens again, slept on many sofas. 208 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:34,560 And you know, I'll say one thing. 209 00:12:34,560 --> 00:12:37,600 And the reason why my mother was in touch with my father through 210 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:42,000 lawyers is that he held some money, a small amount for me for 211 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:43,520 school. So I ended up going to a 212 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:47,080 Catholic High School here in Baltimore, which was phenomenal 213 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:48,880 for me to get me on the right path. 214 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:52,440 And then four years of state school, which again was 215 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:56,320 phenomenal for me to have determination and wanted to make 216 00:12:56,320 --> 00:13:01,400 something of myself. So I'm in college marketing. 217 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:06,960 I worked at a hospital in Baltimore and ended up running 218 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:11,800 into this young girl, her name is Tammy, and she was a physical 219 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:17,920 therapy intern there and 33 years later we're here. 220 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,840 She's my rock. I don't know anyone in this 221 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:26,480 world that can put up with me the way she does and all of my 222 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:32,120 baggage. We had kids, 2 girls, and I said 223 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:34,760 to myself, I'm going to do everything different than my 224 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:37,800 mother did raising me. And of course, what do I do? 225 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:41,320 I go to the extreme, the other end of the spectrum, and I'm 226 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:43,880 like this Uber helicopter parent. 227 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:47,920 No crumbs on your face, no dirt on your hands to the nicest 228 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:50,160 clothes. You get everything you want the 229 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:55,760 second you want it. So So that's how I was as a 230 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:58,200 parent. It got even worse during girl 231 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:01,400 teenage years, as you can imagine, just trying to protect 232 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:04,720 the girls from everything, which was not a reality. 233 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:09,560 And then when my girls were 19 and 17, my birthday's in July. 234 00:14:09,560 --> 00:14:12,440 And for the last few years, we would go and eat crabs like we 235 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:14,640 do in Baltimore, like everyone does in Baltimore. 236 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:20,480 And they finally said, how come we know nothing about you? 237 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:24,360 We don't know your family, we don't have grandparents on your 238 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:25,840 side. We have no cousins. 239 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:28,040 There's just you. We know nothing about you. 240 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:33,040 And I said, all right, well, you're old enough and I'm dying 241 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:35,720 to tell you. And I told him about my mother, 242 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:39,800 you know, as any 1917 year old can understand, not a very nice 243 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:42,520 person. My mother was and left home 244 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:44,080 early. And then this, I picked up my 245 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,400 phone and I said, listen, this is what the Internet tells me 246 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:49,840 about my father. It's his picture and his name. 247 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:52,680 And they picked up their phone and they found my two brothers 248 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:57,200 and my sister within two minutes while we're eating crabs. 249 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:00,360 This is your brother. This is your other brother, and 250 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:03,880 this is your sister. Now, I know the first question 251 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:06,600 everyone's going to ask is you could have done a Google search 252 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:08,760 and done that yourself. Yeah, I could have. 253 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:13,440 But there's no way in hell I'm going to go down that road and 254 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:19,800 risk getting rejected because rejection and abandonment. 255 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:23,800 My mother rejected me for her addiction, and my father 256 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,040 abandoned me at birth because he was married. 257 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:31,480 So my life is spent not getting rejected or abandoned. 258 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:35,000 And the performer in me, luckily I learned this, this part came 259 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:38,720 out as a young kid. I can charm really well. 260 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:42,680 And my motto is, is I'm going to charm you before you reject me. 261 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:46,320 So I will do everything it takes to connect with you as quickly 262 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:50,560 as possible, unhealthy or not, just to feel secure. 263 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,560 You could be the lady behind the counter at the restaurant or 264 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:56,760 something, you know what I mean? That's just how my brain is 265 00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:58,800 wired. How did you feel when they 266 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:02,640 pulled up that information and you saw these real people on 267 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:04,960 their phones? Well, of course I went like 268 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:08,760 white as a ghost. I immediately saw a resemblance. 269 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:14,560 The kids saw a resemblance, which, you know, I'll say this a 270 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:17,960 lot. When you finally see someone in 271 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:22,080 this world that you look like or you share eyebrows with or eye 272 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:26,280 color or hair or whatever it is and you've never experienced 273 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:30,760 that before, it is amazing, like absolutely amazing. 274 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:33,280 Someone like me and others out there, they have an identity 275 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:35,360 crisis. My last name is just the fourth 276 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:38,160 marriage my mother had. You know, I don't know any of 277 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:40,680 her side of the family. That's a whole nother podcast of 278 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,120 finding out the fact that there was all these relatives on her 279 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:45,000 side of the family, but she was the black sheep. 280 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:49,720 So I never met any of them and more importantly, none of them 281 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:53,240 saved me. None of them took me into their 282 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:56,160 house in Baltimore because you don't do that back then. 283 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:57,680 You brush everything under the rug. 284 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:02,000 So yeah, I was blown away. And this is July of 2019. 285 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,079 So for the next 6 months I sit on this information and I 286 00:17:05,079 --> 00:17:08,680 cyberstalk the fuck out of my siblings and luckily they're 287 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:11,560 absolutely amazing. Everything I find is beautiful 288 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:14,480 and my wife everyday and I have a conversation about what are we 289 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:15,640 going to do? What are we going to do? 290 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:18,640 And you know, there's one side of me saying I have every right 291 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,400 to know where I come from and I have every right to meet my 292 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,560 blood. And the other part of me is if 293 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:27,960 this destroys that family, you have to go to your grave with 294 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:30,640 this. At the end of December, early 295 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:34,120 January of 2020, I had made a decision not to contact them 296 00:17:34,120 --> 00:17:38,360 because, I mean, something like this ruins families. 297 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:40,720 It does. And I'm not going to do that. 298 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:43,440 You know, I would say to my wife, I'm blessed. 299 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:45,760 I have two kids. I got a wife, I got a good 300 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:47,640 career. I got a house in a roof over my 301 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:49,080 head. What do I need? 302 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:52,040 But apparently you need more in this life. 303 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:56,840 So like I said, I'm a musician. I played a wedding in 2020, in 304 00:17:56,840 --> 00:18:00,120 January of 2020. And at the reception, I overhear 305 00:18:00,120 --> 00:18:02,600 this friend of a friend talking about the high school she went 306 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:04,520 to. And since I cyberstalked my 307 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:07,280 siblings, I knew the high school they went to, and it's the same 308 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:11,080 high school. And I said to Emily, you went to 309 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:12,040 the school? Yeah. 310 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:15,440 Well, did you know this family? And I gave them the family's 311 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:17,440 last name of my brothers and sister. 312 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:19,680 Yeah. I graduated with so and so and 313 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,800 so. And so, of course, I went white 314 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:26,040 again. It's a whole new like, what do I 315 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:27,560 do with this kind of information? 316 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:31,920 And then a bottle of wine later, she convinced me that I had 317 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:35,480 every right to contact them. And so I did the whole spit in a 318 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:38,080 cup through ancestry and connected all the dots in the 319 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:41,280 tree and and everything was exactly like I had figured out 320 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:44,920 over the Internet anyway. Ask is is did you decide to take 321 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:47,440 adna test to really just solidify? 322 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:52,960 Yes, and it was really just for more of a CYA in case because, 323 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:55,000 you know, this could get really controversial. 324 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,960 I spent days in front of the computer going, Oh my God, this 325 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:00,680 is my grandmother. Oh my God, this is my 326 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:02,560 grandfather. This is my great, great, great 327 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:06,280 grandfather. And I'm this percentage Jewish 328 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:10,720 more than I ever thought I knew. And and I have Russian Jews in 329 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:15,360 my family and Polish Jews. And it was such a beautiful 330 00:19:15,360 --> 00:19:18,080 foundation to start understanding who I am and where 331 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:21,000 I come from. And I hadn't even met them yet. 332 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:25,400 So anyway, you know what happens when you turn your profile from 333 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:27,320 private to public on like an Ancestry? 334 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:30,200 It starts pinging folks and they get emails. 335 00:19:31,120 --> 00:19:34,240 So turn my profile from private to public. 336 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:38,960 I had missed a bunch of messages through Ancestry from someone. 337 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:44,880 And this someone was named Kathy and she's my cousin. 338 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:50,160 Never had cousins growing up. And she's, you know, she's 339 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:52,640 putting stuff in ancestry like through the message saying like, 340 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:55,520 hey, I think we're related if you want to contact me. 341 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,280 And then like an hour later, I still hadn't looked at my phone. 342 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:01,320 She sends another one saying I'm pretty sure I know how we're 343 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:02,920 related. If you want to, you know, 344 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:05,520 contact me. And then by the third message, 345 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:08,240 when I finally looked at my phone, she was like, yeah, I 346 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:11,480 think I know how we're related. I'm pretty sure, so we should 347 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:14,120 probably talk. And she had figured out that her 348 00:20:14,120 --> 00:20:17,920 uncle, my siblings father, my father has a sister, which is 349 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:21,240 Kathy's mother, that she figured out that there was a child at a 350 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:25,240 wedlock, you know. So I finally contacted her 351 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:27,560 through Ancestry that Monday night and we talked for like 3 352 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:28,760 hours till like one in the morning. 353 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:32,000 It was amazing. I can't explain to you what it's 354 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:36,040 like to have a conversation with someone that has your same blood 355 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:39,160 and you've never had a conversation with anyone like 356 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:41,360 that in the 50 years you've been on this earth. 357 00:20:42,120 --> 00:20:44,840 And she's so beautiful and she's like, do you want to meet? 358 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:46,440 And I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? 359 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:48,800 Like, what are you doing now? I know it's like 1:00 AM, but 360 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:51,640 you know, maybe there's a bar open-ended up having dinner the 361 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:56,880 next night and her sister, my other cousin, came along and I 362 00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:00,240 was a a few minutes late. And I walk into the my 363 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,000 neighborhood kind of restaurant bar here in Baltimore that we 364 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:06,080 were at all the time. Everyone knows us and the place 365 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:08,560 is packed. And there's these two beautiful 366 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:12,840 women, these two gorgeous Jewish women at this table. 367 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:14,920 And I knew it was them and this crowd. 368 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:18,560 And we're crying and drinking and trying to eat. 369 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:20,840 And then they're kicking us out as they're putting the tables 370 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:23,840 up, the chairs up on the tables next to us as they're closing 371 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:26,320 down. I told them at the end of the 372 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:29,320 night, listen, I, I have to do this the right way, which means 373 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:34,520 I have to contact my father first before things may. 374 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:36,720 I don't want things to backfire. I don't want things. 375 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,200 I don't want anyone to come to me and say, you did this first 376 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:44,960 and you're a scam and all that. So I got his e-mail address and 377 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:50,280 contacted him the next day and said, hey, my name is so and so, 378 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:54,720 my mother's so and so. And I recently joined the 379 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:59,040 ancestry and can see your entire family, wink, wink. 380 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,560 And I'm sure they can see me too. 381 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:05,840 Wink, wink, 20 minutes later, e-mail me back. 382 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:09,160 I'm freaking the fuck out. I'm like Tammy, I can't read 383 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:10,320 this. Please read this. 384 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:12,640 I was sure it was going to be like fuck off. 385 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:18,600 You know, I, you know, you would understand this every step that 386 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:21,840 I'm telling you every and, and, and it's going to continue as I 387 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:23,800 tell the story. Every the every little thing, 388 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:27,960 every e-mail, every contact could be a rejection, you know, 389 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:31,080 and I have to weigh the fact that this may not work out. 390 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:33,000 And how am I going to come back from it? 391 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:37,920 If I had gotten rejected by this family, I don't know how I would 392 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:43,080 have come back from that easily. You know this is my blood. 393 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:45,800 Right. And without the connection to 394 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:50,000 your mother or anyone else, like you're putting a lot of stake in 395 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:51,680 that. I don't want to be alone in this 396 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:55,040 world, you know, right. He replies and says, you know, 397 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:56,600 it's been a it's been a long time. 398 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,680 If you can give me some time, like a couple days to digest all 399 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,160 this, I'll be in touch. And we had a phone call a couple 400 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,360 days later. It was horrible. 401 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,920 He was such a Dick. I mean, I know he doesn't mean 402 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:10,640 to be. He's very business like and like 403 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:13,680 he's 80, you know, and that's how, you know, a lot of 80 year 404 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,680 olds are. And he asks stupid questions 405 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,640 like, I thought you would have reached out in your 20s. 406 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,760 Why didn't you? And again, I'm like, I'm the 407 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:24,840 kid. I feel like I'm the only one 408 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:28,960 that understands that when I say that I'm the kid, you're the 409 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:31,240 parent. It's not your responsibility. 410 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:35,320 You put me here. I'll I'll never understand why 411 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:36,800 he asked that. And I said that. 412 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:38,760 I think I said something just like that. 413 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:44,840 I told him about the abuse on the phone and I knew in my heart 414 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:46,920 right away that he didn't know about it. 415 00:23:47,360 --> 00:23:50,280 He just knew my mother was crazy and if he was going to save his 416 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:52,160 marriage, he had to get my mother out of his life. 417 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:56,200 And I do believe he didn't know. And come to find out soon after 418 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,360 that, he went into therapy. He spent the next 18 months in 419 00:23:59,360 --> 00:24:02,720 therapy until we met. He didn't meet me for 18 months. 420 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,640 Was he still in Baltimore? Yeah, he splits his time between 421 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,280 Baltimore and Florida like a bunch of old people do. 422 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:13,880 The next day, which was January 16th of 2020, which is my gotcha 423 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,120 day that my siblings tell me every year. 424 00:24:17,120 --> 00:24:19,400 This is when we got you like a dog. 425 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:27,440 But I love it. They they had found out and sent 426 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:32,520 me ancestry message and all three of my siblings wrote it 427 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:38,720 together and it was phenomenal. They said stuff like, we're all 428 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:40,120 going to figure this out together. 429 00:24:40,120 --> 00:24:46,000 You know, they use the word like awe or, or the word together or, 430 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,600 you know, they said we're close as siblings. 431 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,880 Like, they don't hate each other, you know, which is, 432 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,640 again, everything I wished they would be, you know, close and 433 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,240 they would talk. They said, we're very grateful 434 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,520 that you did this and we hope to hear from you soon. 435 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:05,320 Was so positive. And, you know, it took me like 436 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,480 20 minutes to digest it. I take it downstairs to Tammy, 437 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:12,160 my wife in her office and I collapse on the floor. 438 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:17,040 She thought someone died and I'm holding the phone up going. 439 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:21,960 They use words like together and all of us and you know, all 440 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,640 these other words that that created a unity theme in their 441 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:29,000 letter. And my wife's like, you're 442 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:30,960 crazy. This is happy news, you know, 443 00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:34,080 But again, I mean teacher. That's a lot to take in. 444 00:25:34,120 --> 00:25:36,680 Yeah, when you search for something like this or you want 445 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:43,040 it your whole life, you know, listen, I get trauma made me who 446 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:47,520 I am and and I've learned a lot. My vulnerability is a gift and, 447 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:51,360 and, and and I'm I'm grateful for all of it, but doing it 448 00:25:51,360 --> 00:25:55,600 alone was miserable, was absolutely miserable. 449 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,480 And I wished I had some siblings to just put my head on their 450 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:03,280 shoulder after a beating or to ask them why is this happening 451 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,560 to me or us as why is mom this way? 452 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:07,680 You know that none of that was answered for me. 453 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,840 So I replied back to the ancestry e-mail about an hour 454 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:13,880 and a half later after I picked my mushy stuff up off the floor. 455 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,000 And Tammy and I put together a response that was coherent 456 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:21,800 through all my tears. And I said something like, you 457 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,280 know, thank you so much for reaching out. 458 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,760 This is a dream of mine. I can imagine how trauma, 459 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:31,920 traumatizing, or, or how crazy all this is for all of us. 460 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,240 I tried to be inclusive too in my writing for all of us. 461 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:41,720 I said, you know, this has been quite a roller coaster ride for 462 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,600 me during a time of indescribable uncertainty. 463 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,560 And that sentence is something my siblings always go back to 464 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:53,680 when they when they tell the story, because I can't explain 465 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,360 to you how scary this process was. 466 00:26:56,360 --> 00:27:01,000 I can't explain to you it takes every ounce of bravery inside of 467 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,920 you to do something like this because most of the time it 468 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:10,280 doesn't end up well. But you know, I do believe my 469 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:12,640 vulnerability. I do believe the fact that I 470 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:15,480 came to this family with my heart on my sleeve. 471 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,640 And listen, I'm sure they looked me up on the Internet and they 472 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,320 wanted to know if this was a scam or not. 473 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,760 Yeah. And my profile on the Internet 474 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,760 is is nice enough that they wouldn't think anything bad. 475 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,880 This was five years ago. So we spent the next many 476 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,480 months, unfortunately, during COVID, which ruined everything 477 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:36,160 because we couldn't see each other. 478 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,840 We had planned to make all these travel arrangements to meet and 479 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,080 we just had to do it over Zoom or Webex. 480 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,760 We would get to know each other. It took my sister a little bit 481 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,960 longer to contact me, but my brothers contacted me right 482 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,200 away. A lot of face times my sister 483 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:58,400 took about 3 months, which was was devastating for me because 484 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,960 you know, someone like me, they, they, if they don't connect 485 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:06,680 quickly, they feel useless or or rejected or something. 486 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:08,960 You know what I mean? But I learned that, you know, 487 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:12,560 everyone has their own process during these types of events. 488 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,840 And you can't expect someone to move 1000 miles an hour like I 489 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,920 do all the time. You can't expect everyone else 490 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,200 to move the same speed during their process. 491 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:24,880 It's one of the first major things I learned during this in 492 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,320 therapy. So I was able to say to myself, 493 00:28:27,360 --> 00:28:29,960 oh, you know, my sister is taking a little bit longer than 494 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,720 the brothers, but she's maybe working things out with her 495 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,440 mother because she's really close to her mother. 496 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,760 And it took a long time to to be OK with all that. 497 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:43,640 It took my father 18 months to meet me and he was in therapy 498 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:49,040 because of the guilt he has over the the abuse. 499 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:54,440 First of all, like this is this is a remarkable story just in, 500 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,680 in how resilient you are. I mean, I like kind of hate it 501 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,320 when people call me resilient because it's like, you shouldn't 502 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:02,040 have had to go through all of the things that you've been 503 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:03,640 through you. Shouldn't have resilient? 504 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:06,840 But but but it is a story of resilience. 505 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:14,120 Did your siblings have any inkling that you existed or was 506 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:18,640 this a total surprise to them? Like I I guess I'm wondering if 507 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:22,440 your father ever disclosed anything to them? 508 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,560 Did his wife know? Like what did you learn there? 509 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,520 Yeah, I did learn a lot from my siblings about my youth, which 510 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:32,040 is funny, from from their mother and our father. 511 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,080 So their mother knew of the affair. 512 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,480 Their mother knew that there was a baby out of wedlock because my 513 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,080 mother was at their house screaming and yelling outside on 514 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:44,000 their front lawn. Other adults in the family 515 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:48,200 during that time, like my aunt, my cousin's mother, Kathy's 516 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:53,000 mother, they knew too. Even my grandmother, who I never 517 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,520 met, Mildred, my father's mother knew. 518 00:29:55,960 --> 00:30:01,720 And I found out that like my father's mother, my grandmother 519 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:06,280 Mildred, and my aunt, my father's sister, offered to take 520 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:12,720 me and raise me from this attic mother that my father had an 521 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,280 affair with. Now, granted, you know, back in 522 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,280 the 70s that probably wouldn't have been an easy task because 523 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,840 things were different back then. But to know that because I 524 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,040 always wanted someone to save me. 525 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,600 Like, like I said, I found out through my DNA search just a few 526 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,920 years ago, all these relatives on my mother's side that I never 527 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,000 knew existed that lived well into my 20s. 528 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,560 And that's really painful to know that there are people out 529 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:42,320 there that your that is your blood, but they can't save you 530 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,080 or they won't or they don't know to save you. 531 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,760 I didn't even know to call them and say, can I please live with 532 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:49,640 you? Because I didn't know they 533 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,640 existed. Right, right. 534 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:56,800 So my siblings didn't know and when their parents divorced, 535 00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,240 they just said they were getting divorced over the many 536 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,800 infidelities that our father had. 537 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,080 And, and to answer your next question, I'm sure is coming is 538 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:09,480 yeah, they were really pissed at their parents that they weren't 539 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:11,000 told there was a sibling out there. 540 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,200 My, my, my siblings have never used the word half brother. 541 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:16,760 Never. They say brother. 542 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,840 And and they know the words I like to hear. 543 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:25,480 They know what I need to feel secure because, you know, it's 544 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,720 been five years. And I'll be honest, like in the 545 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:33,840 beginning, I was 10% sure they were not going to go anywhere 546 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:37,800 and 90% sure they were going to be like, well, this was fun, but 547 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,000 we're out. This is only temporary. 548 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:41,720 And then over the years, it's gotten bigger. 549 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:47,160 Now I'm at like 9095% sure they're unconditionally going to 550 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:50,800 love me forever. But I need to hold on to that 5% 551 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:56,040 because I just need to be ready to put my wall up and block the 552 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,000 rejection when it comes. I need to have a plan. 553 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,440 Yeah, if, if it comes. It's not gonna come. 554 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:06,280 But unfortunately, you know, our brains are wired so much in 555 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:08,120 trauma that that's how it thinks. 556 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:10,520 That really doesn't sound like. It's going to. 557 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:15,560 Which is amazing. How much time have you spent in 558 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:19,360 the what ifs? Because I think it's a natural 559 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:24,080 thing, right, to spend the time wondering, what if my 560 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,280 grandmother had been able to save me? 561 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,320 But I also think that that can just wear you down, right? 562 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:31,040 Because you can't go back in time. 563 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:35,200 So how much time did you spend on that and where are you sort 564 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:38,840 of out with it now? Well, I still have what ifs, you 565 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:42,840 know, 50 years of wiring in your brain isn't just fixed 566 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,920 overnight, you know, and this family wasn't going to fix it 567 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,200 all. I mean, I'm an intensive therapy 568 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:49,960 and have been for the last five years. 569 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:53,560 I have like 4 therapists and I use psychedelics, which are 570 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,760 amazing in a therapeutic environment to rewire your brain 571 00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,040 and neuroplasticity. I thoroughly believe in it. 572 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:02,560 Listen, what if this person took me in? 573 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:04,400 What if I contacted my father early? 574 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:06,480 What if I grew up with my siblings? 575 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,280 I mean, I know it sounds so clicheish, but I wouldn't be who 576 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:13,200 I am today. I wouldn't have met my wife. 577 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,520 I wouldn't have my children. All of me and my siblings could 578 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,400 have hated each other by now if we had met early. 579 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,960 I mean, now we meet and, and our brains are, are, are mature and 580 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,160 we're adults and we can put aside, you know, stupid stuff 581 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:31,360 and immature stuff and really get to the point of healing. 582 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:33,120 Yeah. What ifs are. 583 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:36,200 I mean, listen, I always wanted to be a rock star. 584 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:40,160 What if I met Tammy at 21 and broke it off because my dream 585 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,440 was to go to LA and make it? I mean, honestly, I probably 586 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:47,600 would have been dead by now because, you know, somebody 587 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,560 wired like me is going to constantly be running for that 588 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:55,320 next tie of adoration and love. And of course, that's going to 589 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,320 involve some unhealthy behaviors as well. 590 00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:59,120 Yeah. What if they're still there? 591 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:01,200 They are. They're just fewer and far 592 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,720 between. And, you know, you learn. 593 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,200 I mean, I study Buddhism now, which is amazing. 594 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:08,960 Have you had any contact with your mother? 595 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:12,560 Does she know that you are in contact with your family? 596 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:16,159 No. So besides, when my grandmother 597 00:34:16,159 --> 00:34:20,199 passed in my 30s and I had to help her with the Funeral 598 00:34:20,199 --> 00:34:22,760 arrangements, it's been 30 some odd years. 599 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,000 She's never seen her grandchildren except maybe once 600 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,560 when they were babies. They're grown, they're graduated 601 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:30,320 from college, one's getting married. 602 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,120 She's missed it all. The very first time I met my 603 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,080 father was at a restaurant and his new wife was there of the 604 00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:39,239 last like 20 some odd years, wouldn't even look at me. 605 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:44,239 And I'm describing as I talk to my father, I'm describing more 606 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:48,760 of the abuse and he's telling me about what he remembers from 607 00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:52,040 that time, how he met my mother, etcetera, etcetera. 608 00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:55,800 And I, you know, I'm bawling the entire, I mean, I must have 609 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,840 bawled the first dozen times we met. 610 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:07,000 And he goes to the bathroom and I look at her and I say, please 611 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:11,000 look at me. Like, please acknowledge my 612 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,880 existence in this world. You know, I've been a secret my 613 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,480 entire life. Will you please just look at me? 614 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:19,640 And she finally did and broke down. 615 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,200 But it was one of the first times in this journey that I 616 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:27,200 stood up for myself, you know, and I said, I'm here and don't 617 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:28,840 brush me. Don't put me under the rug 618 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:30,360 anymore. Don't brush me under the rug. 619 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,040 I'm here. There were, you know, there were 620 00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,680 many times after that. There was one specific time 621 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:39,840 later that year or the next year where my father and I had lunch 622 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:43,200 alone, just the two of us. And he spent most of the lunch 623 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:46,200 saying these words, I'm not going to abandon you. 624 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:49,880 I'm not going to abandon you over and over and over again 625 00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,480 until he believed that I believed it. 626 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:56,120 And by like the 12th time, of course, I'm losing it, bawling 627 00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:59,440 my eyes out. This family has done a wonderful 628 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:04,800 job of not only facing the secrets they have in their 629 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,960 family, but understanding my pain and giving me what I need. 630 00:36:09,720 --> 00:36:13,320 Another example of that is like I'm covered in tattoos. 631 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,840 Most of my tattoos are about this journey as well as my 632 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:20,600 childhood. But this family held this huge 633 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:25,800 Hebrew naming ceremony for me where they gave me my Hebrew 634 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:31,240 name and it was a huge thing, rituals. 635 00:36:31,240 --> 00:36:35,200 And I'm in my underwear laying in this sand circle and there's 636 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,240 eucalyptus and all these prayers. 637 00:36:37,240 --> 00:36:41,800 And they gave me my Hebrew name, which is it's called Amiasov or 638 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,040 AMI. Everyone calls me AMI for short. 639 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:48,200 And it means beloved son come to unite. 640 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:54,560 And this family will say that while I always thought I found 641 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:58,720 them so I could heal, they'll say it's the opposite. 642 00:36:58,720 --> 00:37:02,360 You're healing this family. You're, you're making us think 643 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:07,040 about what it means to be family and have blood and talk about 644 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,680 your emotions. And I still don't get it. 645 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:11,760 Amazing. I still don't get it. 646 00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:16,520 It's, it's a honestly, I, I've, I've talked to a lot of people 647 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:22,000 who have found family and I don't know how many I've really 648 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,560 spoken to that have been so welcomed. 649 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:29,200 Like at that level, that's really, really special. 650 00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,120 Yeah, I mean, now, you know, remember it's been, it's, it 651 00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:36,560 wasn't easy, you know, and maybe I'm welcome, but reluctantly in 652 00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:38,280 the beginning. But I showed up. 653 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:43,200 I showed up as a real person with, with real emotions and 654 00:37:43,240 --> 00:37:45,520 like everyone would say to me in the family, why are you doing 655 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:47,760 this? And I said because I discovered 656 00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:49,800 I had siblings and I want siblings. 657 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:55,000 I discovered my blood, you know, and that means so much when you 658 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:59,440 don't know your blood and my life has changed. 659 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,200 I mean, I know who I am, I know where I come from. 660 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:05,160 You know, not everyone in the family is as close to me as 661 00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:07,320 others. And it takes a long time to 662 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:11,120 accept that because I thought I would walk into this family and 663 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:13,800 they would love me at 10,000 miles an hour like I fell in 664 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,440 love with them. And it doesn't happen that way. 665 00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:20,440 The best part is learning how to deal with that because it's a 666 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:22,840 life skill and you know not everything is going to work out 667 00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,360 the way you want it to as fast as as you want it to. 668 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,120 That's true. Now your daughters are the ones 669 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:32,640 who kind of made this happen. What has their reaction been to 670 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:38,480 this and and your Tammy as well? Yeah, so Tammy is definitely 671 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,360 involved more than the girls because the girls are on her own 672 00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:44,520 or in college and stuff. But we have taken some family 673 00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:48,160 vacations together. When I am out in Phoenix, my 674 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:50,440 oldest brother's out there and the girls will come out for 675 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,280 their spring break and spend a lot of time with my brother and 676 00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:57,120 my sister-in-law out there. My family welcomes the girls so 677 00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:59,800 beautifully. One of them's getting married 678 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:02,840 and, and the siblings are invited, but the girls, they 679 00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:07,280 step back and they're letting me go through this journey. 680 00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:11,200 I will say this for any spouse that's going through this with 681 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:14,640 their spouse, like if you're the the spouse of someone that's 682 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:19,400 going through it like me, Tammy felt left out like for a lot, a 683 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:21,680 lot of times. And it's, it's understandable. 684 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:25,760 I mean, I am consumed with this journey early on. 685 00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,520 It's it I eat, sleep and drink it, you know? 686 00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:32,120 And she graciously took a step back while also making sure I 687 00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:35,320 was mentally well during it all. But it's worked out. 688 00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:37,680 I couldn't have done this without intensive therapy. 689 00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:41,200 I couldn't have done this without a beautiful family, a 690 00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,120 stable family and a stable marriage. 691 00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:47,280 Because you can't do it alone. It's, it's, it's too big. 692 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,480 It's a beautiful love story and it's got a lot of bumps in the 693 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,000 road. But whose life doesn't you know? 694 00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:59,280 What advice do you have for a parent who may be keeping a 695 00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:03,040 relationship with a biological parent from their child? 696 00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:08,600 Don't keep the secret secrets kill families. 697 00:40:08,720 --> 00:40:13,560 It might be hard, but again, if the foundation of family is 698 00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:16,480 there and love is there, When I heard my brother speak and he 699 00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,320 uses the same inflection in me, it is. 700 00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:21,680 It is a beautiful thing. The first time they said they 701 00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,400 loved me. I have all these firsts the 702 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:28,960 first time, my niece said. Uncle, you know, all these 703 00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:32,040 beautiful firsts are just indescribable. 704 00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:34,280 They really are. And what advice do you have for 705 00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:37,840 someone who's just uncovering their DNA surprise story? 706 00:40:39,240 --> 00:40:47,200 Don't do it alone, take it slow. You have every right to find out 707 00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:51,960 your story and like I said before, everyone will have their 708 00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:56,960 process of meeting you or not meeting you unfortunately. 709 00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:02,160 But if it's a happy story, just remember that everyone has their 710 00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:05,440 own baggage and has nothing to do with you. 711 00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:10,280 Like if you're starting a journey like this, all the shit, 712 00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:14,240 everything that went down has nothing to do with you. 713 00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,200 None of it's your fault. It's going to feel like it's. 714 00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:19,040 Important. You're going to blame yourself 715 00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,800 all the time and why won't this person love me or why won't this 716 00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:24,560 person call me? I wish the best for anyone who 717 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:28,520 has to deal with this, but having a strong support system 718 00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:31,640 behind you and not doing it alone is very important. 719 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:37,160 Very important SO. I think that reminder that it's 720 00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:40,560 not about you, other people's reactions are not about you is 721 00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:43,480 so important. Well, Jeremy, thank you so much 722 00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:47,120 for joining me on the podcast and bravely sharing your story 723 00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:49,120 today. You have been through so much in 724 00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:53,800 your life, but to see you kind of emerge with this positivity 725 00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:58,640 and gratefulness and just a positive outlook moving forward 726 00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:00,720 is really inspiring. Well, thank you so much for 727 00:42:00,720 --> 00:42:03,120 having me. Thanks again to Jeremy for 728 00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:06,280 sharing his story. If you have Adna surprise that 729 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:08,960 you'd like to share, please submit your story at 730 00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:14,400 dnasurprises.com and for early ad free access to episodes, join 731 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:18,200 me over on patreon@patreon.com/DNA 732 00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:20,400 Surprises. Until next time. 733 00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:26,560 This episode of DNA Surprises was hosted, produced and edited 734 00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:31,080 by me Alexis Ourselt. It was mixed and mastered by 735 00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:34,320 Josh Ourselt of Siren Recording Studios.