1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,040 The saddest thing is I don't even think I was ever angry. 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,720 Maybe that'll come later. Maybe I'm the type that cries 3 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:10,400 first and feels angry later. I feel bad for my mom. 4 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:13,760 She was in her early 20s when she got married to someone who 5 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:15,800 couldn't have kids. And I don't think she knew what 6 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:18,040 that meant. You know, she didn't want kids 7 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:21,240 at that time. And maybe it just, she got in 8 00:00:21,240 --> 00:00:23,440 too deep. I think there's layers to all of 9 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:25,480 this. There's so many layers to 10 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:29,400 people. It's so complicated, and I think 11 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:33,640 the more that we give people the chance to peel those layers back 12 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:37,960 and figure out why they really made the choices they did, then 13 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:41,920 we'll understand better and not be angry. 14 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:46,680 Welcome to DNA Surprises, a podcast that delves into the 15 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:49,320 world of unexpected DNA discoveries. 16 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:55,840 I'm your host Alexis, our salt. In July 2021, my life took a 17 00:00:55,840 --> 00:01:00,720 surprising turn when I found out that I'm an NPE, a person who 18 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:03,560 has experienced a non paternal event. 19 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:08,120 In other words, my biological father isn't who I thought he 20 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:11,120 was. Join me as we explore the 21 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:16,200 stories of NP, ES, adoptees, and donor conceived people and their 22 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,000 families. Get ready to unravel the 23 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:23,160 astonishing journeys that begin with a simple DNA test. 24 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:32,760 This is DNA surprises. I knew it or I had no idea. 25 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:38,240 When it comes to DNA surprises, some people are completely 26 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:41,520 blindsided. Others felt like they knew it 27 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:44,640 all along. Danielle never felt like she fit 28 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:47,680 in with her family. Her mother died when she was 29 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:50,840 just three years old, and for the rest of her childhood she 30 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:54,160 was raised by her dad, who travelled often for work, and 31 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:58,280 her aunt, her mother's sister. Danielle knew that her dad had 32 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:01,960 difficulty conceiving her older half sister with his first wife, 33 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:05,040 and she questioned if they were biologically related. 34 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:09,840 More than a decade after her dad died, another aunt gave her a 35 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:13,360 letter he'd written to her, which described the sometimes 36 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:17,720 tumultuous relationship but genuine love her parents had for 37 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:21,120 one another. A confession of sorts. 38 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:25,280 When she learned that her sister had taken a consumer DNA test, 39 00:02:25,640 --> 00:02:28,800 Danielle finally had her chance to uncover the truth. 40 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:34,120 After getting her results, doing extensive research, and learning 41 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:37,640 surprising information from her mother's best friend, she 42 00:02:37,640 --> 00:02:41,480 finally did. Thank you Danielle for sharing 43 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:45,600 your story. My first name's Danielle and I 44 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:49,440 am from Brooklyn, NY and my age is 44. 45 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:54,720 My DNA surprise was finding out that my father who raised me 46 00:02:54,720 --> 00:03:00,760 wasn't my genetic father. I think that I on some level 47 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:04,960 always had an idea that that was true, but it was very 48 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:09,360 complicated because my mom passed away from breast cancer 49 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:14,760 when I was 3 1/2. And my dad raised me along with 50 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:17,560 the help of my aunt and grandmother. 51 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:22,960 And I think this was a shock for everybody that she died so 52 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:26,440 young. And I don't know if my dad maybe 53 00:03:26,640 --> 00:03:30,400 maybe they would have told me, but I don't think so. 54 00:03:30,920 --> 00:03:33,920 I do think he knew. I'm very close to believing that 55 00:03:33,920 --> 00:03:37,920 he definitely knew. I just don't know if he knew who 56 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:42,880 or he knew the exact storyline of how it happened. 57 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:48,320 But he raised me with a lot of help from my aunt and my 58 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:50,520 grandmother. He traveled for work. 59 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:54,760 He was gone, you know, sometimes three months at a time overseas 60 00:03:55,160 --> 00:04:00,120 working in 3rd world countries to teach Planned Parenthood, 61 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:02,480 AIDS prevention. There were a lot of times that 62 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,600 he was gone, that it seems strange to me that he would 63 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:11,040 leave me behind. And he would always say it was 64 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:14,920 because there was children in other countries that needed 65 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,800 help. And I always pretended to 66 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:20,000 understand that as a little girl. 67 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:25,320 And my aunt who raised me has a daughter and helped raise me, I 68 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:28,320 should say. And they were good to me. 69 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:32,000 But I never felt like I fit in anywhere, not with my dad. 70 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:36,560 When he was home, I'd stay at the apartment with him and I 71 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,040 would feel a little lonely because I'd miss my aunt. 72 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:42,760 And her house was a little bit busier because she had her 73 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:44,960 daughter. And my uncle lived there also. 74 00:04:45,280 --> 00:04:48,240 And he was very good to me. But I think there was always a 75 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:54,120 feeling of being misplaced. And I, I think it caused a lot 76 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:57,200 of issues for me. I had really bad anxiety as a 77 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:01,120 little girl. I was worried about dying, 78 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:05,280 getting sick, I was missing my dad. 79 00:05:05,280 --> 00:05:07,640 But then when he would come back, I didn't want to go with 80 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:10,600 him. And I can honestly say I never 81 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:14,800 felt like I fit in where I was. Were your parents your mom and 82 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,720 dad? Were they married when you were 83 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:20,200 born? They were married when I was 84 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:22,680 born. I do believe that they were 85 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:26,200 having problems. I don't know exactly when that 86 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,240 started. But without giving too much of 87 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:32,600 my sister, my half sister who ended up not being related to me 88 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:36,680 at all, too much of her story, I can start a little bit farther 89 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:38,480 back. My dad was married. 90 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:41,600 He was a Holocaust survivor. He wasn't in a concentration 91 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:45,360 camp, but he was born 1926 in the Czech Republic. 92 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:50,720 He moved to this country 1939 because of the war and when he 93 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:53,760 came here they went from being very wealthy to very poor. 94 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:58,160 He was living in Queens. He got married to another woman 95 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:04,480 who came here from Europe during the Holocaust for 1927 I think, 96 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:07,560 and that is my half sister's mom. 97 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,080 They did not have an easy time getting pregnant. 98 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:12,720 They were married for 10 years before she arrived. 99 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:17,520 His sperm count was low. That's what they had told all of 100 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:22,160 us, you know, as to why Alison was their only child and why it 101 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:24,040 took ten years for them to have her. 102 00:06:24,840 --> 00:06:29,320 And it turns out that she is not genetically his either. 103 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:34,640 So my mom met my dad when him and his first wife were 104 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:39,840 separated. Or I should say he left and they 105 00:06:39,840 --> 00:06:44,280 got together before they were legally divorced. 106 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:48,920 She went for an interview with him and they ended up hitting it 107 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:51,720 off and they ended up to get married. 108 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:55,360 And I'm not saying this is the reason why, but my half sister's 109 00:06:55,360 --> 00:07:00,000 mom killed herself. So that was a trauma for my 110 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,480 sister. And then she ended up living 111 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:10,000 with my mom and my dad, and that was when she was 16. 112 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:13,960 We were raised always thinking that we shared a dad. 113 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:18,160 I always had a feeling that I wasn't related to my sister as 114 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:21,680 much as I, you know, would have liked to be. 115 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:26,400 I just didn't see any at all similarities between us. 116 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:30,680 She was older than me, 20 plus years older, but I just couldn't 117 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:34,000 see anything. She's very musical, artistic, I 118 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:38,040 like the arts, but we are, she's just very different from me. 119 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:44,120 So I had been assuming this whole thing for a very long 120 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:48,000 time. And 1:00 trip my husband and I 121 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:50,640 took to visit my sister in Boston. 122 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:55,720 She had mentioned that she did Ancestry DNA because her 123 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:58,920 boyfriend who was sitting there at the time said he had done 124 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:01,800 Ancestry DNA and he found out all this cool stuff about 125 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:03,560 himself. He found out that he had some 126 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:07,800 Native American in him and like he wasn't all Italian like he 127 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:09,400 thought and it was really exciting. 128 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:13,160 So she's like, well, I did it because it sounded so exciting. 129 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:16,720 And it turns out I'm 100% Ashkenazi Jew, and that's not 130 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:18,800 surprising at all. So that was boring. 131 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:22,040 And that night when we went to sleep, because I had told my 132 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:25,680 husband about 50 times, I really don't think my dad was my 133 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:28,960 genetic dad, but I assumed he was hers. 134 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:31,360 I said, this is how I'll find out. 135 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:36,080 We went back to Brooklyn and I got a DNA, Ancestry DNA in the 136 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:38,919 mail and I sent it away. And this is the first time I'm 137 00:08:38,919 --> 00:08:42,000 admitting this will be the first time that she hears that that 138 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:46,120 was actually the intention of doing Ancestry DNA. 139 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:49,560 It wasn't like most people that say I did Ancestry DNA and I 140 00:08:49,560 --> 00:08:53,640 found out like, no, I did ancestry DNA because I heard 141 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:57,240 someone else in my family did it and I was pretty sure that was a 142 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:01,160 good way to find out. So at this point she still 143 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:04,480 believes that she is related to your father. 144 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:07,880 Is that correct? Yeah, she had no idea, 'cause I 145 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:12,200 think so many people look at their ancestry and they're like, 146 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:16,040 OK, it says I'm what I am and that's it, you know? 147 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:20,400 So yes, she is 100% Jewish, but that doesn't mean that those two 148 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:26,400 parents, just because it's a match ethnicity wise, is adna 149 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:28,520 match. But she didn't look farther into 150 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:29,680 it. She just let it go. 151 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:34,120 OK, so then you go back home and you get a test. 152 00:09:34,680 --> 00:09:38,200 What happens next? Everyone thought I was crazy. 153 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:41,280 I just would like to say that, you know everyone, it would have 154 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:44,240 been going on for years. It really got very strong. 155 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:50,960 My feelings when I had my first child's and I was 31 and I just 156 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:54,120 was so sure that something wasn't right. 157 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:57,920 I just felt like how could he really leave, you know? 158 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:00,880 Something was just strange to me and I know he needed to make 159 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:05,000 money and I know he was single parent, but and the other thing 160 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:08,480 that I should just say is that if he had trouble getting 161 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:13,000 pregnant when he was in his 20s, what would ever make anyone 162 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:16,240 believe that it would be easy for them to get pregnant when he 163 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:19,320 was in his 50s? So it was just also just common 164 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:23,200 sense. And then the last thing about it 165 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:29,960 is that I had heard stories that my mom had had an affair and I 166 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:35,080 actually heard the story from my sister and my half sister and I 167 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:37,320 didn't talk to her for a while because I just thought it was 168 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:41,280 cruel that she told me that because my mom wasn't there to 169 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:45,080 defend herself. Basically all of this just made 170 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:48,920 me realize. And then the tipping point was I 171 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:51,920 got a letter that one of my aunts, not the one who helped 172 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:56,200 raise me, my Aunt Una, my momma's other sister, gave to 173 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,400 me, that my dad had written to me when my mom died. 174 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:02,760 He was in Bangladesh. It says that on the top. 175 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:05,640 He typed it and he signed it. Love Dad. 176 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:10,360 And it was basically this letter just telling me about my mom and 177 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:14,560 telling me what people would probably tell me about their 178 00:11:14,560 --> 00:11:18,240 tumultuous relationship and how just like storms, they would 179 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:21,840 have these times where they would fight, but they would make 180 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:26,600 up and they would reaffirm their love for each other basically. 181 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:31,520 And I think he was trying to tell me that I wasn't his 182 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:35,440 because so many of the words and I didn't get this letter till I 183 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:37,920 was an adult. So many of the words were like 184 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:42,600 you were a part of my Rosemary. You were our our chance at a 185 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:44,480 happiness I wasn't able to give her. 186 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:49,840 There was a lot of this like tone and I knew from that letter 187 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:51,680 and he raised me. I mean, it was me and him. 188 00:11:51,680 --> 00:11:54,600 I knew what he was saying and didn't have to say it. 189 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:59,080 And my aunt said absolutely not my sister, they were they're 190 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:02,520 Irish Catholic. My sister would never, she would 191 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:05,360 never have an affair. And I said OK. 192 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:07,960 And I said, well, my dad mentioned that she had had an 193 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:09,400 abortion. Oh, never. 194 00:12:09,560 --> 00:12:12,520 Not Rosemary. No, no, she never would have. 195 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:18,920 And I think all of these things just confused me more and set me 196 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:22,000 back. How old were you when you got 197 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:27,520 the letter? I was already a mom and it was 198 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:29,880 just, it was all coming to like a head. 199 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:33,640 My aunt Una and I didn't have a very close relationship because 200 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,560 she had wanted to take me away from my dad. 201 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:40,520 She had threatened that she was going to take him to court 202 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:43,680 because my mom would have wanted her to have me. 203 00:12:43,680 --> 00:12:47,480 And he, she wanted him to move to Long Island and he wanted to 204 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:50,440 stay in Brooklyn. And they ended up having a huge 205 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,720 falling out and they stopped talking and she stopped talking 206 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:56,280 to me. So when he died when I was 18, 207 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:59,040 my dad died when I was 18, suddenly he had a heart attack 208 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:02,040 in the car. She contacted me, but it took me 209 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:04,120 a while. You know, I just was like, now 210 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:07,080 you're going to come around. You know, you kind of abandoned 211 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:08,800 me because you didn't get along with him. 212 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:11,200 And she was like, well, you don't know everything. 213 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:13,880 And I was like, I don't want to know anything. 214 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,560 He's gone. And I don't know what you have 215 00:13:16,560 --> 00:13:19,440 to say, but I just can't. I just didn't want to hear it. 216 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:23,480 But she claimed that after all that, getting that letter and 217 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:27,040 then me saying to her, were you going to tell me years ago that 218 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:30,560 he wasn't my dad? She said no, I wasn't going to 219 00:13:30,560 --> 00:13:33,600 tell you that, so who knows? Do you believe that he was 220 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:37,080 trying to tell you as much as he could in the letter without 221 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:39,040 telling you? I do, but then there's part of 222 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:42,000 me that feels like he was trying to hide it too, mentioning an 223 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:44,640 abortion like is, you know, because we all lived in the same 224 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:48,160 place, we never left. And I think maybe just in case 225 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:52,640 he I ever heard something from someone, you know, just to make 226 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:55,360 sure that lined up. But I always thought it was 227 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:56,840 weird. Like, why would you tell me 228 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:58,400 that? Why did you tell me? 229 00:13:59,680 --> 00:14:03,200 Yeah, that's like a really personal thing to share that if 230 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:04,920 it didn't have anything to do with you. 231 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:08,240 And I remember being like when you bulbs before you were born. 232 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:10,640 And I'm like, why? Why'd you do that? 233 00:14:10,680 --> 00:14:13,600 You know, like, but whatever. I was just like, OK, you know, 234 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:16,280 fine. But I always remembered that 235 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:19,200 being weird. How many years went by between 236 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:22,480 you getting this letter and getting that internal sort of 237 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:26,520 affirmation that he may he may not be your biological father to 238 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:30,760 when you took the test? That letter was 31, The test was 239 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:34,000 36. So it took me a long time and I 240 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:37,680 tried everything. I mean, I contacted people 241 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:42,760 trying to understand more and I was at the point and I I feel so 242 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:45,560 bad that I'm saying this and she's going to hear this, but I 243 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:47,920 was like at the point I was going to take care from her 244 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:50,440 brush. I was like that sure. 245 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:53,760 By the time we visited her and it was kind of like a gift 246 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:56,720 because that night we're sitting there and they tell me they did 247 00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:01,360 ancestry and I was like, what? That's crazy because I literally 248 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,960 we joked around my husband and I that I was going to take some 249 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:08,160 kind of sample. But the weirdest thing is then 250 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:13,160 so we take this test and we're not linked. 251 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:17,400 And I called Ancestry DNA just to just to make sure. 252 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:19,640 And they were basically like, yeah, these are these are 253 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:22,280 usually not mistakes. Is this a possibility? 254 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:24,920 And I was like, yeah, it's definitely a possibility. 255 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:31,240 It was so confusing because I'm half Irish Catholic, like first 256 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:37,400 generation Brooklyn, like my mom's one of six kids and my dad 257 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:42,720 is an Eastern European Jew. But it lined up like it's true, 258 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:44,800 I'm a Jew. Like I was like, well, that part 259 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:46,120 lines up. Like I'm happy. 260 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:49,840 Like at least I know who I am. I called my mom's best friend 261 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:52,520 who I hadn't really had much relationship with, and I 262 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:56,800 basically begged her to explain more to me. 263 00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,400 She said, yes, I know it's a lawyer. 264 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:01,280 I know she fell in love with a lawyer. 265 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:04,640 I heard they got pregnant, but she told me she had an abortion. 266 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:08,320 So there's this abortion piece that my dad was feeding me, 267 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:09,920 which I always thought was so weird. 268 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:14,680 And she was like, you know, I know your sister is probably not 269 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:18,760 your dad's. He came to this country in the 270 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:22,280 in 1939. It was during like the Holocaust 271 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:25,200 and they were on a boat and he got measles, mumps, rubella at 272 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:28,920 thirteen years old. And it left him low fertility. 273 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:32,760 So they went to a sperm donor. At that time it was rare, you 274 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:38,080 know, it was the 50s. And they mixed his sperm with 275 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:43,400 this donor. And Rosemary always told me 276 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:47,480 that's my mom and her best friend's name is Pam, that they 277 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:53,160 pretty much knew that Allison was not my dad's, but they 278 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:56,360 weren't 100% sure because you didn't know when you mixed. 279 00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:00,320 But I think my dad was so smart. I mean, not just book smart, 280 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:02,400 really intuitive. And I know he knew. 281 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:05,760 I just know he knew with me. I know he knew with her he 282 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:07,440 couldn't have kids. He knew that. 283 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:14,040 And she said she got pregnant with this lawyer and she cried 284 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:16,839 to my dad like, this is how badly I want a baby. 285 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:20,880 And he said, OK, Rosemary, you have an abortion. 286 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:23,920 And then we'll go to the fertility doctors like I did 287 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:27,680 with Allison's mother. That was a story my mom told her 288 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:31,760 friends. So there was a pregnancy out of 289 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:34,520 wedlock, but she told him that she was going to have an 290 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:38,240 abortion, but she never did. Oh, I considered that. 291 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,040 I was from a donor and I did all this research. 292 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:45,600 I would sit for hours on my way on the subway. 293 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:48,800 I would sit with a notebook, like trying to break down my 294 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:52,480 tree from ancestry. And I finally like found this 295 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:55,640 woman who's like, I'm going to try to help you. 296 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:59,840 I was like, whoever my dad is, is your cousin somewhere? 297 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:04,320 Second cousin, I'm from Brooklyn and maybe you can help me. 298 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:07,240 Then I said, but I'm a don't probably from a donor. 299 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:09,200 So she's like, I have this cousin. 300 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:13,480 He lives in Seattle. He's a neurosurgeon, which is 301 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:16,080 like a dream for this hypochondriac girl. 302 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:20,760 And he donated sperm in the late 70s. 303 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:22,960 And I was like, Oh my God, it's him. 304 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:27,960 So she asks him if I can write to him and he says yes. 305 00:18:28,360 --> 00:18:31,480 And we write back and forth and he is so lovely. 306 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:34,320 And I was so happy. He had never had kids and he was 307 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:38,000 married and lives in Seattle. And lovely, lovely, Lovely 308 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:41,440 became a realtor after he retired from being a 309 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:43,920 neurosurgeon. My mom was a realtor and an 310 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:46,720 artist. But I just loved him so much. 311 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:50,960 And he was getting excited too, the crazy thing. 312 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:54,120 And he's like, all right, let's figure it out. 313 00:18:54,120 --> 00:18:57,720 Let's do adna test. So I sent him ADNA test. 314 00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:00,680 We both did it. And can I just tell you, I think 315 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:03,960 that this is one of the most upsetting things was finding out 316 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:07,000 that he wasn't. It is so strange. 317 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:14,360 The chance to have someone so lovely be my genetic father and 318 00:19:14,360 --> 00:19:19,560 be able to meet him would have been so nice, but we were both 319 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:23,880 so disappointed. I Remember Me getting the 320 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:27,560 results and sending it to him and you know, he wrote me a 321 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:32,760 lovely letter basically saying whoever it is would be lucky and 322 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,320 he was just as disappointed as I was. 323 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:37,640 I'm. Sorry, it's. 324 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:39,960 OK. And I don't even know, I think 325 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:46,280 I'm probably just transferring my emotions on to that because 326 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:48,520 it doesn't make that much sense. But he was lovely. 327 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:53,720 And then the crazy thing is that woman, it was her cousin, it was 328 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:57,160 just on the wrong side. Then she's like, there's this 329 00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:02,880 guy Leon, he was from Brooklyn. I think I met him at my bar 330 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:04,880 mitzvah. Like she wasn't sure. 331 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:07,960 And it just was a dead end. I couldn't find anything on him 332 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:11,160 and there was no links. He had never done Ancestry and 333 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:13,720 no one related, just like tightly related to him did. 334 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:19,840 And I gave up for so long. Did you tell your sister who you 335 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:21,720 always believed was your half sister? 336 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:25,200 What did she say? Well, she was on her own 337 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:27,920 journey. She found out a lot more, a lot 338 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:31,080 quicker than I did. She had like a million matches. 339 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:33,000 That's an exaggeration, but a lot. 340 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:36,840 And she found all these half siblings and they had all met 341 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:40,640 over those four years. And there I was with like zero 342 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:44,680 matches for the longest time and finding like second cousins and 343 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:49,520 nothing, nothing stuck. And I realized pretty quickly 344 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:53,760 after what happened with Hal, that was the guy who I thought 345 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:57,320 was my genetic dad. I kind of realized I wasn't. 346 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:01,080 Maybe I wasn't from a donor, but I think I wanted to believe I 347 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:05,440 was from a donor because then I felt like they both wanted me 348 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:07,720 and they both did what they had to do to get me. 349 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:14,680 And there was a lot of shame in my realizing that I was a result 350 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:21,200 of an affair because Oh my God, the shame was so heavy. 351 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:26,640 And I it's so sick because it had nothing to do with anything 352 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,920 I could have possibly chosen. I was so defeated. 353 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:34,960 And then I was starting to get really nervous about medical 354 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:37,320 history. My son was having stomach 355 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:40,280 issues. And I just started to get myself 356 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:42,160 so nervous. I said, how could I leave this? 357 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:46,960 So I did 23andMe, it came back first cousins with this guy 358 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:50,440 Steven. And I wrote to him and he was 359 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:52,960 like, I know exactly who your father has to be. 360 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:58,040 He's my he's my cousin. He's from Brooklyn and his name 361 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,040 is Leon. And I was like, this is two 362 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,920 people saying this guy Leon, he gives me the 1st and the last 363 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,880 name. And I call my boss who I worked 364 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,520 for for like 25 years in Brooklyn Heights. 365 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:13,160 And she's like, oh, I know Leon. And I was like, you know him? 366 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,240 And she's like, yeah, I was like, I think he's my dad. 367 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,440 She goes, no way, that's crazy. And she's like, I'm pretty sure 368 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:23,120 he's still alive. So I call around and it turns 369 00:22:23,120 --> 00:22:25,720 out he died. He had died 2017. 370 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,680 Another woman who knew him was like, well, he has a daughter 371 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:33,160 and she's a lawyer too. And anyway, so I ended up 372 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:37,240 writing to his daughter and I end up meeting her. 373 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,960 She's my half sister. And then she has a full brother 374 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:43,600 who I've never met. And then I actually have a 375 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:47,920 younger brother because Leon was divorced when my mom and him 376 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,200 were together. He was not married at the time. 377 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,360 And then he ended up getting married, a second marriage and 378 00:22:53,360 --> 00:22:58,600 having us a son who's 4 1/2 years younger than me, I think. 379 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:00,920 And we actually went to the same college. 380 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:04,040 He's very nice. I've only spoken with him a few 381 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:06,880 times. What have you been able to learn 382 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,520 about him through his children and his wife? 383 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:14,440 His daughter has only the nicest things to say about him, and 384 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,600 she's actually lovely. She lives in California. 385 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:21,040 She has a beautiful family. She's successful. 386 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:25,080 She loved her dad. When he got sick, she moved him 387 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:27,920 out from Brooklyn to California and took care of him. 388 00:23:28,360 --> 00:23:32,800 She loved him so much that he just has to have been a great 389 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,120 guy. His son from his second 390 00:23:35,120 --> 00:23:38,880 marriage, I think they had more of a tumultuous relationship. 391 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:44,320 I talked to him about it a few times and I just felt like it 392 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,600 was loaded and I didn't want to make him feel like he had to 393 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:51,600 tell me who his dad was. I think he was still dealing 394 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,920 with his dad's death at the time because don't forget, I think I 395 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:58,600 spoke to them 2020, that dad, their dad had only died like 396 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:02,680 three years earlier. And I think his son and him had 397 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:04,960 a little bit more of a complicated relationship. 398 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,520 So I didn't want to. And he's younger than me so I 399 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:09,920 was like looking out for him and I just didn't want to cause him 400 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:14,720 any headache. OK, so your mom's friend, she 401 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:22,040 told you that your mom had an affair with Leon the lawyer and 402 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:25,160 fell in love with him. She got pregnant. 403 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:29,840 Your dad asked her to get an abortion and then they could go 404 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,200 and do the donation route like they did with his first 405 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:36,680 daughter, but she didn't. Do you think that your dad 406 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,600 believed that she did go get an abortion and then go to his 407 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,200 clinic? No, he had to have known. 408 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:46,560 She didn't because he was, like I said, he was so smart. 409 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,720 I think he was just very understanding of the fact that 410 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:53,240 she wanted to have a baby and he wasn't able to provide that. 411 00:24:53,720 --> 00:25:00,480 And I don't know if it was that she said, you know, why, why? 412 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:01,920 Why do I have to have an abortion? 413 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,560 This person won't be a part of our lives. 414 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,720 I won't tell him, you know, or I don't know how it, I don't know. 415 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,280 And I don't even know if he knew I existed. 416 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,560 Because she left Brooklyn for a year. 417 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,920 She bought a house in Long Island and they lived there for 418 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,160 a year the year I was born, ironically. 419 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,960 And then she came back to Brooklyn with a baby. 420 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:26,560 So I don't know that he would have ever put two and two 421 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,600 together. Or maybe he did know, but his 422 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:34,160 second wife, who's still alive, his daughter and his son said 423 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:36,280 they know. He did not know. 424 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:38,720 Who knows? I'm not sure. 425 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:44,600 Bapart feels upsetting. I'll never know if he knew that 426 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:49,280 I existed because we worked on the same block for 15 years. 427 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,600 I went to college on the block he lived on. 428 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,880 I mean we had to have passed each other 7,000,000 times. 429 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,560 Not to mention I passed my half sibling probably in school. 430 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:03,960 Sure. I think so many of us in the 431 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,600 community have these like questions that we know that we 432 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,920 might never get answered right. I'll never know. 433 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:14,480 I'll never know what happened. I mean, literally, I just need 434 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,600 to accept that. And of course, my wish is that 435 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:21,040 someone will hear this podcast and say, well, actually I knew 436 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,800 them and this is what happened. But I know that's not going to 437 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,200 happen, or at least I don't think so. 438 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,480 But I will say the one of the only memories I have of my 439 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:33,080 parents together was not a great memory. 440 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:38,560 But we were in a car and all of a sudden they were fighting and 441 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:42,600 my mom must have opened the door while it was moving and then 442 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,240 opened my back door and took me out. 443 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,160 And it was like out of a movie where someone's walking with 444 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,760 someone and someone's driving next to them and they were just 445 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:52,400 screaming at each other on the street. 446 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:53,720 I don't know where that street was. 447 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:58,360 I don't know what what the time frame was, but I remember it. 448 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,760 And it was one of the only times I remember my dad crying. 449 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,720 I asked him about it when I was older. 450 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,320 I was like, was there ever a time that we were in the car? 451 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:12,160 And you and mom got in some horrible fight and she got out 452 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,920 of the car while it was moving and took me out of the car. 453 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,280 And he just cried. He was like, I can't believe you 454 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,360 remember that at 3 1/2 years old. 455 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,440 Like, what? Who remembers anything from 3 456 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:26,840 1/2? Like, what must have that memory 457 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,200 been to see her into your brain like that? 458 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,120 Like, I just think it shocked him. 459 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,040 But I wonder if that was the time where he said she said to 460 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,880 him she was dying. You know, maybe she said, you 461 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:42,080 know, this is who it was. Or I'm going to tell them. 462 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,440 Who knows? Who knows? 463 00:27:46,120 --> 00:27:50,240 I don't know. I will say out of all of this, 464 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:54,080 the thing I take away is any child who's had trauma or 465 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,440 secrets being hidden from them, they become very intuitive. 466 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,640 They're able to, like, remember things that they need to 467 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,600 remember because no one's actually giving them answers. 468 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:06,960 They're going to map it out themselves. 469 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:10,800 They're going to figure it out, and they know so much more than 470 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:15,440 adults give them credit for. And the other thing is, I think 471 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:20,480 it's OK to have secrets, but I think what they did is denied 472 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:24,240 someone else their truth. So I could have gone my whole 473 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:27,520 life without knowing this. And not only would that have 474 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,560 been unfair because my dad also had a rare type of cancer, 475 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,920 because I would have thought that I would have gotten that, 476 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:36,760 but also because what if there was something I needed to know 477 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:40,280 for my children? And I am a warrior. 478 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,280 And I think that was really what drove my search. 479 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,440 And it was one of the first things I asked my half sister. 480 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:51,200 And she remembers it. I basically was like, OK, great. 481 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,240 Good to know. Any other things you want to 482 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:55,920 tell me about his health? You know, she was just like, OK, 483 00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:57,600 I get it. Like, you really just want to 484 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,960 know if he ever had cancer. And I was like, yes, because I'm 485 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,520 so scared. My mom had cancer at 34. 486 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,640 You know, she died at 38. I'm so nervous. 487 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:10,080 And part of it was relief that he didn't because both my 488 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,200 parents had cancer. My dad had cancer when I was 6 489 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,320 and he beat it. But that would have, I felt like 490 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,680 cancer was like, I don't know, like an evil person after me. 491 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,480 It was so scary that he got it right after she did. 492 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:28,720 The last thing I'll say about what hurt me was realizing that 493 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,920 I was raised by no one who is my parent. 494 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,000 So I was like, no wonder I felt out of place. 495 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,960 And it was really interesting because in the end, I felt so at 496 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,120 place with my dad as an as a teenager and once you retired 497 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:45,080 and we were together and I had felt so out of place with my 498 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,560 aunt. But now looking back, she was 499 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,280 the only one related to me that raised me. 500 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,960 He wasn't related to me. I know an Ant on one side is 501 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,760 probably is only 25% genetics but that's more than anybody 502 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:01,480 else that was raising me had. I've spoken to some other people 503 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,800 who have had that experience where it turns out they were 504 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:09,240 raised by someone who was not genetically related to them at 505 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:13,600 all. How do you process that? 506 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:17,480 I feel bad for the people who also had to raise me. 507 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,600 I know that sounds complicated, but I feel bad for him because I 508 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:24,200 think he really wanted to hand me over. 509 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,640 And now in retrospect, I think it's because he thought I 510 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,800 belonged to them. Maybe he didn't even know if I 511 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:34,760 was the same religion as him or if I was, you know, maybe to put 512 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:38,760 me with my own, maybe to leave me there as much as possible 513 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:43,840 because he let them, you know, I like they, they taught me like 514 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,760 religion and things like that. And I don't think he knew. 515 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:50,160 I don't know if he knew like that whoever was my genetic 516 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:51,880 father had the same ethnicity as him. 517 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:53,920 I don't know how in depth my mom got. 518 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,720 Maybe she never told him because that would make him liable for 519 00:30:57,720 --> 00:30:59,640 not saying something. I don't know. 520 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:05,440 But knowing what I know, I feel bad for all of us, including 521 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,960 him, because even if he knew, he was probably so scared to tell 522 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:12,920 me because it was just me and him and he would lose me or be 523 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:16,560 worried that he would lose me. And then for me, I feel bad 524 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:20,320 because I just felt so out of place. 525 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,440 And my aunt, I'm thankful that she helped. 526 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,480 I think that she did the best she could. 527 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:28,480 She had her own daughter, she had her own family. 528 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:33,560 She always tried to include me. The fact that I didn't fit in a 529 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:35,920 lot of the time was out of her control. 530 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,760 It's just because I didn't fit in anywhere, because I actually 531 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:41,720 didn't fit in, you know, I was, I was someone else's all 532 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,560 together. Without being able to get a lot 533 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:50,200 of answers from the players that were involved, what has helped 534 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:54,280 you process this? I think the thing that's helped 535 00:31:54,280 --> 00:32:01,040 me process it is telling the story, because I think the shame 536 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:05,480 comes from feeling like you shouldn't tell anybody. 537 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,600 And I think it's important to just say it. 538 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:13,720 And I think anyone who is hiding something from someone that's 539 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:18,400 imperative to their medical health, to them knowing who they 540 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:22,680 are, should tell them because I think it frees everybody. 541 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,520 I think about sometimes, I know, breast cancers, a lot of 542 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:31,680 factors, but imagine the immense weight my mother was carrying, 543 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,360 carrying this baby, giving birth to a baby that wasn't her 544 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:41,400 husband's, not being able to tell her best friends, wondering 545 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,240 if he'd always hold it against her. 546 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:47,640 What about when she was dying? Wondering if he would love me 547 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:52,800 the way she would love me. I just think it would have been 548 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,760 freeing for her to tell her family and her friends. 549 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:59,840 Yeah. Are you very open about it with 550 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:05,080 all of the people in your life? I tell my kids, yes, I tell them 551 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,800 exactly what happened because I don't want them to carry the 552 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:10,680 guilt of it because that's what happens. 553 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:15,480 You inherit guilt. And I feel bad for my sister's 554 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:20,680 mom's death because my mom, I'm not saying she played a part in 555 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:24,200 it, but might have been something that happened that 556 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,720 deepened my my sister's mom's depression. 557 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:33,320 And I think we inherit the guilt of the choices of our parents. 558 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:39,240 And I think the way to clear it is to admit it and say it and 559 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,520 let it out. That's really beautifully said. 560 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,720 Thank you for sharing that. What's next for you in your 561 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:47,560 journey? I. 562 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:52,520 Think I'm just going to not let it go, but I think I wanted to 563 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:56,360 do this because I just wanted to document it. 564 00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,680 I've always thought about writing about it and it's just 565 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,600 too many things because I don't know what the story would be. 566 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:07,320 Would it be the girl who lost her mother really young and was 567 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:10,560 always worried of getting sick? The girl who was raised like 568 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:15,000 Punky Brewster and Henry? That's how I always like me and 569 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:16,880 my dad used to watch that show like that. 570 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,840 Is that the story how we ended up having this amazing 571 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:25,040 relationship and we were too odd choices like The Odd Couple of 572 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:29,600 parent and child? Or is it that I'm angry about 573 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,360 not knowing where I came from for most of my life? 574 00:34:34,199 --> 00:34:37,040 I don't know even know what the story is, but here it is, all of 575 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,880 it out and I can maybe put it away a little bit. 576 00:34:42,159 --> 00:34:45,480 Yeah, are you still angry? Saddest. 577 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:47,880 Things I don't even think I was ever angry. 578 00:34:48,639 --> 00:34:51,520 Maybe that'll come later. Maybe I'm the type that cries 579 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:55,199 first and feels angry later. I feel bad for my mom. 580 00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,560 She was in her early 20s when she got married to someone who 581 00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:00,600 couldn't have kids. And I don't think she knew what 582 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:02,840 that meant. You know, she didn't want kids 583 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:06,040 at that time. And maybe it just, she got in 584 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:08,240 too deep. I think there's layers to all of 585 00:35:08,240 --> 00:35:10,280 this. There's so many layers to 586 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:14,200 people. It's so complicated, and I think 587 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:18,480 the more that we give people the chance to peel those layers back 588 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:22,800 and figure out why they really made the choices they did, then 589 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:26,640 we'll understand better and not be angry. 590 00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:30,560 I don't even know if that makes sense, but I felt bad for her. 591 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:34,600 I felt bad for everybody, including me, but I felt bad for 592 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:36,360 my dad. Can you imagine how that would 593 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:41,080 have felt coming here from another country when you're 13 594 00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:45,200 because people want to kill you because you're Jewish and you 595 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,120 get on a boat and you get so sick that it means you can never 596 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,520 have kids in your life that are genetically yours? 597 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:56,200 I mean, what the hell? His story was like a horrible a 598 00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,280 horrible saga. And then it didn't work out with 599 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,560 his first wife. She ends up committing suicide, 600 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:04,200 leaving him with the first daughter who isn't his. 601 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,560 I mean, who is? But genetically then he falls in 602 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,480 love with this young woman. What are the chances that she'd 603 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:15,400 die when she was 24 years younger than him, leaving him 604 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:17,920 with another child to raise that wasn't his? 605 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:19,440 It's a. Lot. 606 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,160 Yeah, it's a lot. Like what did he ever do? 607 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,600 He would just sit. And at night sometimes he would 608 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,800 just sit there, no TV, Like he would watch the opera and then 609 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,600 he would just sit there with his like martini. 610 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:33,800 And God knows what he was thinking now. 611 00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,280 I wish I could ask him, but I didn't know. 612 00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:41,720 What would you say is your most burning question around all of? 613 00:36:41,720 --> 00:36:44,240 This what happened. I just want to know what 614 00:36:44,240 --> 00:36:47,160 happened. I mean, honestly, the idea of 615 00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:51,480 just being able to sit with one of my parents, the genetic ones, 616 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:55,680 the not genetic 1. It's really interesting how 617 00:36:55,680 --> 00:37:00,640 profound that sense of not belonging was for you for so 618 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:04,640 much of your life. Do you feel like you have a 619 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:06,320 place where you belong now? Yes. 620 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:11,280 Because I made my own family and thank God. 621 00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:15,000 And it's ironic. I married someone named Dan, and 622 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,520 my dad's name was Dan, the one who raised me. 623 00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:20,000 So it's fun. Yeah. 624 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:24,240 The thing is like, I don't want anyone in my life to feel 625 00:37:24,240 --> 00:37:28,480 responsible for the fact that I didn't feel like I belonged 626 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,440 because the feeling I had was in me. 627 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:36,640 It wasn't anyone else. It wasn't their fault. 628 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:39,560 I think I just couldn't figure it out. 629 00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:43,560 I it took me a really long time to figure out what this feeling 630 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:49,040 was I felt and then I finally figured it out so I feel it was 631 00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:51,800 cathartic. What advice do you have for a 632 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:55,320 parent who is keeping adna surprised from their child? 633 00:37:55,320 --> 00:38:00,640 My advice is to tell the truth and to put the truth before any 634 00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:07,600 feelings of vulnerability or fear because the child deserves 635 00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:09,800 to know, and especially if they're going to find out 636 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:11,840 anyway. I feel like everybody finds out 637 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:13,840 anyway. I don't think people like us are 638 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,680 going to exist much longer because people are going to be 639 00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:20,280 able to scan themselves and know exactly where they come from. 640 00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:25,560 Yes, and what advice do you have for someone who just uncovered? 641 00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:31,400 Adna surprise, that's easy. You're OK. 642 00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:35,280 You're going to be OK, and that's it. 643 00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,320 Danielle, thank you so much for coming on the podcast and 644 00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:41,400 sharing your story with me today. 645 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,440 I'm so happy that you found a place. 646 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:47,640 Where you feel like you. Belong with your family and I 647 00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,400 wish you the best. Thank you so much. 648 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,440 Thanks again to Danielle for sharing her story. 649 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,920 If you have Adna Surprise that you'd like to share, submit your 650 00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:01,560 story at dnasurprises.com. And remember, join me over on 651 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:05,280 Patreon for early access to ad free episodes. 652 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:10,800 You can sign up over at patreon.com/DNA Surprises for as 653 00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:17,320 little as $5 per month. Until next time, this episode of 654 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:21,200 DNA Surprises was hosted, produced and edited. 655 00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,840 By me. Alexis Ourselt It was mixed and 656 00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:28,960 mastered by Josh Ourselt of Siren Recording Studios.