1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:01,600 It all happened the way that it was supposed to. 2 00:00:01,600 --> 00:00:05,000 I found out what I needed to know at when I needed to know 3 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:07,120 it. At 56, I found out. 4 00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:09,600 But look what happened after that. 5 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:13,000 And it's been really good for like a lot of my dad's family 6 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:16,800 and his friends because now they have me, you know? 7 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:20,160 And so it's like now I have all these new friends that were my 8 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:23,760 dad's friends who are part of my life now and they care about me 9 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:25,920 and I care about them. And it's just awesome. 10 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:29,120 I never expected that. So it's like if I can't have 11 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:33,320 him, I have everybody that knew him and also the family that's 12 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:35,680 that's still there. And it's a lot. 13 00:00:36,160 --> 00:00:39,480 It's almost like I'm a whole person now where I wasn't 14 00:00:39,480 --> 00:00:43,440 before. Welcome to DNA Surprises, a 15 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:47,600 podcast that explores the life altering world of unexpected DNA 16 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:51,680 discoveries. I'm your host, Alexis Ourselt. 17 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:56,520 This show centers the stories of people who've experienced NP, ES 18 00:00:56,800 --> 00:01:00,160 or non paternal events, in other words. 19 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:02,720 People who've. Learned that their biological 20 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:05,120 father isn't who they thought he was. 21 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:10,640 We'll also hear from adoptees, donor conceived people, and the 22 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:13,480 families navigating these discoveries. 23 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:17,160 Get ready to follow. The incredible journeys that 24 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:21,600 begin with a simple DNA test. This. 25 00:01:21,960 --> 00:01:27,160 Is DNA surprises. So much of our identity is 26 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:30,000 wrapped up in the stories we tell ourselves. 27 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:35,400 How we came to be who our parents are, who our 28 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:40,400 grandparents are, what they did and how they lived. 29 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:45,920 And for adoptees, many of those details are a mystery. 30 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:51,160 In this week's episode, Barry shares how he discovered his 31 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:56,880 father's incredible story. After taking ADNA Test, he 32 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:01,320 reveals how learning more about his father created a powerful 33 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:05,400 connection with him. Barry also reveals where things 34 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:09,840 stand and what he has learned about his biological mother. 35 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:13,880 Through it all, he remains focused on his purpose. 36 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:17,320 One that he found. By connecting with his father. 37 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:20,360 Just not in the way you might think. 38 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:24,680 Thank you for sharing your story, Barry. 39 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:27,920 First name is Barry. I'm 58 years old and I'm from 40 00:02:27,920 --> 00:02:31,040 Ormond Beach, FL. Well, I was adopted, first of 41 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:34,960 all, just a disclaimer. My my adopted parents are the 42 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:37,160 best people in the world ever. They gave me an opportunity that 43 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,120 I never would have had I come from the furthest, most northern 44 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:42,360 city in, in state of Maine, which is Eastport. 45 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:43,720 It's right on the Canadian border. 46 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:47,720 And I was born in Bath. What I received was just the 47 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:49,880 most ultimate, you know, unbelievable gift that gave me a 48 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:50,920 life. My dad was a doctor. 49 00:02:50,920 --> 00:02:53,560 I grew up in an upper middle class neighborhood of, of New 50 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:56,720 Jersey, but you know, like I knew from a young age that I was 51 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:59,000 adopted. And so there's always that, who 52 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:00,360 am I? Where do I come from? 53 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:03,400 The family adopted me was Jewish and I grew up in an Italian town 54 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:05,440 and I looked more like the people in town that I did in my 55 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:08,440 family. I just never felt like I belong. 56 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:10,480 I never fit in. I just, it's always felt 57 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:12,480 different. And it bothered me, you know, 58 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:14,840 and for for a long time and my parents unfortunately didn't 59 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:16,400 know what they were getting. So I mean, what we're talking 60 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:18,760 about here is a lot of stuff. We're talking about, you know, 61 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:21,200 pain and healing. We're talking about genetics, 62 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:23,520 We're talking about, you know, reconnections. 63 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:27,040 We're talking about people's life paths coming together after 64 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:28,920 56 years. I mean, a lot of stuff had 65 00:03:28,920 --> 00:03:30,600 happened because of this whole thing. 66 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:34,240 So I had a lot of problems as a kid and and kind of straightened 67 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:36,360 out, you know, later in life. But again, I always wanted to 68 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:39,080 know who my parents were. My mother gave me the adoption 69 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,080 certificates in my 20s. And so now I had a last name for 70 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:45,240 my mom and it was really weird because of my birth certificate, 71 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:47,760 they named me, they named me Thomas, which was an old family 72 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:49,240 name. I'm like, why would you give 73 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:51,280 somebody up for adoption and name them? 74 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:55,280 So it was really weird. So I tried to find her, right? 75 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:57,280 And there's a lot of stuff that I, I didn't know. 76 00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:59,720 I didn't know that she didn't want me to find her, right? 77 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:02,160 So I looked and looked and looked. 78 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:05,560 I found out that the name was a very old name. 79 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:07,760 Once I did, my DNA on my mother's side goes all the way 80 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:10,400 back to the 1700s. So I'm really able to trace that 81 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:12,760 lineage. And it's French shipbuilders. 82 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:14,760 And I said my mom didn't want to find me. 83 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:17,240 I had wrote her a letter years ago saying, listen, this is who 84 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:18,200 I am. I turned out OK. 85 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:19,720 You have daughters. If you want to get in touch with 86 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:21,279 me, great. If not, I respect you. 87 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:24,240 And she never did, you know, And it's because of the life that 88 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:27,600 she created and also because of the the secret that she had. 89 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:30,680 So in my 20s, I would call every on the phone book. 90 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:31,920 Do you know my mom? Do you know my mom? 91 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:33,160 It's like the Doctor Seuss book, right? 92 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:35,840 Do you know my mother and actually an uncle had answered 93 00:04:35,840 --> 00:04:38,640 the phone if he knew who I was because they all knew that she 94 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:42,160 had a child that she gave up for adoption, but she was told not 95 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:43,840 to say anything. So he goes, no, no, I don't 96 00:04:43,840 --> 00:04:47,240 know. So before I did my DNA thing, I 97 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:50,360 actually had my mother's birth side find me. 98 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:53,640 And they reached out to me and they're like, you know, your 99 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:56,920 mother didn't want us to find you because of who she married 100 00:04:56,920 --> 00:05:00,640 in her life now, but we decided that we wanted to know you. 101 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:03,040 So I didn't realize that she had five brothers and sisters. 102 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:05,840 And so I had all these cousins and all these people on her side 103 00:05:05,840 --> 00:05:08,360 that really wanted to meet me. And so they found me. 104 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:11,000 And so I found my first blood connection, you know, with 105 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:14,520 relatives, cousins. And so a year later, my wife and 106 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:16,520 I are joking around. And again, I'm thinking that I'm 107 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:17,720 Italian, right? Because I grew up in this 108 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:20,400 Italian town and I grew up working in pizzerias, and I kind 109 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:22,080 of fit in with them and not really my family. 110 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:24,320 And that's why I wanted to be that whole fantasy. 111 00:05:24,840 --> 00:05:26,240 And so my wife and I are joking around. 112 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:27,960 She's like, you're not Italian. You're Portuguese. 113 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:30,680 I said, I'm not Portuguese. I know I'm definitely Italian. 114 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:32,960 So you know, the whole thing about doing the DNA thing, 115 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:35,520 because I was adopted and because I kind of knew who my 116 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:37,880 mother was and what was wrong and I knew my background and I 117 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:40,160 knew the difficulties that I had growing up. 118 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,400 I was, you know, tremendously difficult and got in a lot of 119 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:45,040 trouble. And so I'm like, do I really 120 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:47,080 want to know who my dad is? So I finally said, you know 121 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:51,200 what, let's just do it, you know, as a joke to prove to my 122 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:55,120 wife that I wasn't Portuguese. So I I did the ancestry. 123 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:59,760 We waited and came back. Not only was I not Portuguese, 124 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:04,240 but I wasn't Italian either. So I was Scottish, French and 125 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:06,600 Northern European the the entire family. 126 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:09,600 How did you feel when you saw that after being so sure that 127 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:11,400 you were Italian? This felt right. 128 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:13,680 You know, it was funny because years and years ago somebody 129 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:15,640 said, oh, you look dark Irish. I'm like dark Irish. 130 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:17,520 What's dark Irish? Is there such a thing? 131 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:20,120 You know? But on my father's side, they 132 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:23,720 come from Corker, Ireland and Corporate Castle and that whole 133 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:25,080 thing. So I mean, like, I, I finally 134 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:28,280 was able to find all this stuff, Northern European, Scottish and 135 00:06:28,280 --> 00:06:29,800 Irish. And so I was like, wow, that 136 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:32,320 really makes sense because my mother's family too, they all 137 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:36,240 came from that whole area from there over to Maine, right? 138 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:39,800 And so, you know, back to my dad, I was floored all of a 139 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:43,640 sudden, like I find out who he is, I see him and it's really 140 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:46,560 healing because I'm 56, you know, it's just like I had 141 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:48,240 planned on going to Maine so many times, but it never 142 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:51,120 happened. And then I, I, I finally found 143 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:52,760 out who I am and the family reaches out. 144 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:55,840 Not only did I find out who my dad was, but I also found out 145 00:06:55,840 --> 00:06:58,760 that he had three brothers and two sisters, one brother still 146 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:01,760 alive and then my cousins. And then I also found a half 147 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:05,000 brother who has a different, you know, mother with my father. 148 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:09,000 Unfortunately, Tom had passed away in 2000 due to Agent 149 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:12,840 Orange, but I got to whole learn the whole back story about him 150 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:16,840 and then go to his hometown, meet relatives and actually meet 151 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:19,840 his friends. So in Vietnam, he enlisted when 152 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:26,560 he was 18 and a day before his 19th birthday, December 7th, 153 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:30,840 1967, he had shipped out in May of 66. 154 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:35,080 He was also, and I say genetics, you know, it's like finding out 155 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:37,840 who my dad was and everything about him really makes sense of 156 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,600 all the stuff that I had gone through because he was a mess. 157 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:43,120 He got in a lot of trouble, like even before they sent him to to 158 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:44,840 Vietnam, even before he enlisted. 159 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:47,880 And I'll tell you a couple quick stories, but he was in trouble 160 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:50,480 and they had sent him to the rear away from his company and 161 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:52,800 he was serving as a cook. And he found out that his 162 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:55,320 company was going into this really bad battle. 163 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:58,840 And his quote was, and I heard this from his Lieutenant because 164 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:00,920 I've been in contact with a lot of people since then. 165 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:02,280 This is only about two years ago. 166 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:04,400 Fuck them. They can make their own pork 167 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:06,800 chops. I'm going to help. 168 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:09,720 He was awarded the Distinguished Service Cross, which is the 169 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:13,280 medal right below the Medal of Honor, the Silver Star. 170 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:16,960 At the end of his tour, he ended up with two bronze stars, an air 171 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:21,080 medal, the Medal of Valor from the Republic of Vietnam and the 172 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:23,680 Purple Heart. And he re upped after that. 173 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:26,960 And so that his brother didn't have, he did 2 tours and he re 174 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:28,640 upped after that. So his brother didn't have to 175 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:31,200 do. He had over 21 aerial combat 176 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,159 missions. And so he did a lot and it took 177 00:08:34,159 --> 00:08:36,360 a toll. You know, I mean my dad was but 178 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:38,840 he was out there was a partier. He was wild. 179 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:42,559 He was wild. And when he came back, he was 180 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:44,560 affected by it. He, he was disabled due to 181 00:08:44,560 --> 00:08:47,200 shrapnel. He'd gotten injured and he 182 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:48,800 couldn't work. But he helped a lot of people 183 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:50,080 coming back. He helped a lot of vets. 184 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:52,440 He was a part of a lot of the American legions. 185 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:56,160 And he really was involved with that's missing in in action. 186 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:58,600 One of the guys in his hometown was Mia. 187 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:02,240 And so he really, really stepped out there and used what he did 188 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:05,080 in, in, in the Army and his medals to help, you know, with, 189 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:07,800 with families in the search for guys that are Mia and then also 190 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:10,920 current guys that really needed services through the VA. 191 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:14,320 And so I found all this out and it was just flooring to me. 192 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:16,760 And it was healing because I finally knew who my father was 193 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:20,120 and I knew who I was. And I had pride now knowing how 194 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:23,760 much alike we were and knowing the things that he did, you 195 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:26,240 know, And then we decided to take a trip. 196 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:30,440 And so this is where it gets really crazy, not only finding 197 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:34,160 out that stuff, but this also loops in my mother's side of the 198 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:37,240 family too. So we decide last year to go up 199 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:39,320 and we're going to meet my uncle and some other relatives. 200 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:42,280 Well, not only did I have a stepbrother, but I also had a 201 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:45,120 step sister and the step sisters kind of ostracized by the 202 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,400 family. The step sisters wasn't really a 203 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:49,880 good person and did a lot of bad things and did a lot of bad 204 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:52,280 things to my dad. And I won't get into the gory 205 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:55,800 details, but let's just let's just say nobody really will or 206 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:58,320 wants to have anything to do with her based on some of the 207 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:00,760 things that she did. And one of the things that she 208 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,880 did is when she died, she sold his medals and, and the family 209 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:06,080 thought they were gone. Nobody knew. 210 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:10,000 And this is and he died in 2000. Well, what happened was is we 211 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,360 went up there and I met some of my birth relatives from my 212 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:15,400 mother's side. We had a party in or island, we 213 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:18,240 had a lobster party and I met that uncle and he said, I'm 214 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:20,880 sorry, I didn't tell you this at the time, but your mother told 215 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:24,080 us not to, right? He goes, but I later found out 216 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:26,800 that my mother wasn't my father, wasn't even my father. 217 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:28,360 So he goes now I kind of know how you feel. 218 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:30,800 And it was just like I was welcomed in by the rest of my 219 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,400 mother's family. Unfortunately, she decided, you 220 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:36,800 know, not to. And it's because of, like I 221 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:39,560 said, there was a secret. So this is the other story 222 00:10:39,560 --> 00:10:42,040 behind my adoption. My mother and her sister wanted 223 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:44,560 to get out of Bath, and they were looking for a ticket. 224 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:48,520 Well, back in the 60s, there was a doctor and a lawyer in Bath 225 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:51,440 that had a thing going. They were adopting kids in that 226 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:54,560 area to rich, affluent families in Boston, OK. 227 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:58,360 And so her and her sister came up with the scheme that they got 228 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:01,240 in touch with this doctor and this lawyer and basically if 229 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:04,480 they were able to give up children for adoption, then they 230 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:06,560 were going to have the means to be able to leave. 231 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:08,640 And they both got pregnant within six months. 232 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:10,800 They both delivered at the same hospital and both to name their 233 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:13,720 kid the same, just in case anybody came looking just to 234 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:16,720 kind. Of like almost like a, a, not a 235 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:21,160 surrogacy because there wasn't a, a family who had contacted 236 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:24,800 them, but essentially they got pregnant with the intent to. 237 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,240 Basically got hired, Yeah, this doctor and this lawyer where 238 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:30,360 they were, they were adopting kids out to these rich families. 239 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:33,240 And so any women that came to them, they took care of them. 240 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:37,560 My mother and her sister were working at a bar, the bar that 241 00:11:37,560 --> 00:11:39,760 was right outside the base that my dad shipped out of. 242 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:44,200 So they had met as he was shipping off her over there, you 243 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:48,080 know, and he was the, he was the good looking lucky guy that got 244 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:50,920 to meet my mom that night. And that was her ticket out. 245 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:53,800 And she went to Reno, never looked back, got married and had 246 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,080 a family. And so he had no knowledge of 247 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:58,600 you. He had no knowledge of me, but 248 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:01,240 she did right? And she didn't want her current 249 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:04,200 family to know. That she had done that so. 250 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:05,920 Yes. Do you think? 251 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:08,160 And I respected that. I'm not going to interfere with 252 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:10,720 her life. Yeah, but it's like a shame 253 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:13,280 based feeling of why she doesn't want to meet you. 254 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:16,240 Do you think that she feels detached almost? 255 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:18,760 Like she. Was a surrogate and it you were 256 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,160 never meant to be hers, and so she just doesn't. 257 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:23,600 She didn't want her her married family to find out the story 258 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:26,920 behind how she exited a man with her sister. 259 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:30,920 She married into an affluent, you know, prominent family, 260 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:34,040 worked in the government and were highly religious. 261 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:36,840 And so didn't want this coming out, you know, and so I wasn't 262 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:38,600 going to push it. I, I wasn't going to, you know, 263 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:41,480 I didn't have any. I was grateful she gave me life. 264 00:12:41,680 --> 00:12:44,680 If she didn't do what she did, you know, I never would have had 265 00:12:44,680 --> 00:12:47,200 the opportunities that I had. So I always respected that. 266 00:12:47,560 --> 00:12:51,560 Did your adoptive parents know about this? 267 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:55,600 No, my adopted parents were told that they were college kids 268 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:57,800 unprepared and ready for children. 269 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:00,400 So OK. So they they bought into a 270 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:01,760 story. It was a lot. 271 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:07,200 And were they supportive of you finding your birth parents or 272 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:09,520 how did they feel about it? You know, it's funny, it's like 273 00:13:09,560 --> 00:13:12,280 I'm really grateful for, for the childhood and the family that I, 274 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:13,920 I was given. I didn't have a close 275 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:15,760 relationship with my father or my brother. 276 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:18,440 I did have a very close relationship with my mother and 277 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:20,360 she always supported me up until the time she died. 278 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:23,400 So my mom and I, my adoptive mom and I were very, very close 279 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:25,560 always. And I'm close with my dad now 280 00:13:25,560 --> 00:13:27,800 more than I was. But we didn't gel. 281 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:30,960 We never did. I was never fully accepted. 282 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:34,080 I always felt like, you know, I was the, I was the black sheep. 283 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:39,000 You seem sort of excited and energized by what you learned 284 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:44,960 about your biological father. So was there any moment like 285 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:47,920 learning this about your your biological mother? 286 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:52,040 Or maybe it was it was hard to process this information because 287 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:55,160 you believe this story, right? That they were young college 288 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:57,600 kids and they weren't. Oh, I never believed that story. 289 00:13:57,840 --> 00:13:59,200 Oh, you never did. No, I. 290 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:01,760 Never believed that story. What did you think? 291 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:05,640 You know, and it's funny because what I thought, you know, you 292 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:08,320 have these crazy ideas in your head of like who your parents 293 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:10,080 are. So I thought that it was 294 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:13,200 probably my dad that was the bad guy and my mom was the 295 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:15,880 compassionate when I got my compassion and my caring for my 296 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:18,000 mother. And I got the the anger and the 297 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:21,200 bad boy stuff from from my dad. Well, I did get some of that 298 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:25,520 from my dad, but you know, but it was more my mom who really, 299 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:28,720 what I found out later about really who she was, that she 300 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:31,360 really wasn't that nice of a person, unfortunately. 301 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:32,760 And this is coming from her family. 302 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,800 And so I'm not trashing her, you know, it's just what I've been 303 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:38,480 told about her because the rest of the family decided we're not 304 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:40,720 listening to you. We see this guy on Facebook, we 305 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:42,800 see the life he's creating, we see his daughters, we see what 306 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:44,880 kind of person he is and we want to meet him. 307 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:48,320 And so my first cousin reached out to me and my other second or 308 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:52,640 third cousin reached out, and then my mother's sister's son, 309 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,280 you know, reached out to me. And then a year later, we're up 310 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:59,080 having a a party and I'm being welcomed by the majority of her 311 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,400 side of the family. At that point, I didn't need my 312 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:03,960 mother's approval or vindicate, you know what I mean? 313 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:06,200 I didn't need that peace anymore. 314 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:09,160 I understand who she was and I understand why she did what she 315 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:10,800 did. And I accepted it. 316 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:13,480 And I don't have any resentments or hard feelings over it. 317 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:16,080 I'm just grateful that I was able to meet, you know, the rest 318 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:18,560 of the family and that they wanted to meet me, you know, and 319 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:20,120 I would have respected them if they didn't. 320 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:25,360 But after meeting them, the crazy story is I went to visit 321 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:28,640 my uncle Billy, who now has Parkinson's and I was able to 322 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:30,480 his other brothers and sisters had passed. 323 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:33,560 So he was the only brother left, my father's brother Billy. 324 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,920 We're in Eastport now and Eastport is just an amazing 325 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:41,800 little small town, USA hay right on the water in this deep port. 326 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:44,440 I mean, it's the coolest little town you've ever seen and, and 327 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:46,720 4th of July is huge there. So we were up there for the 4th 328 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,080 of July and we're staying for about 5 days and I'm going to 329 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:52,640 meet my brother too. So I met Bill and I met his 330 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:55,680 kids, I met three of my cousins and then the next day I was 331 00:15:55,680 --> 00:16:00,040 gonna meet my brother who looks just like me as well and he grew 332 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:02,600 up with my father and so did my sister. 333 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:06,120 Well, the next morning after we met them, I get a call from 334 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:09,880 Bills wife Paula saying, you know, your dad's friends 335 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:12,120 contacted us about a week ago and they wanted to do something 336 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,720 special to honor him. And they know a guy named Don 337 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,400 who might have an idea of where your dad's medals are. 338 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:20,440 And this is all happening while we're there. 339 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:21,920 And he was, we're going to call that. 340 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:25,080 We're going to call them and maybe we can go over there and 341 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:27,760 meet him. And I said, yeah, we can go down 342 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:30,360 to Bangor. I can stop there on on our way 343 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:32,840 to the airport. And so they found him. 344 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:36,080 This one guy knew another guy who from the American Legion 345 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:39,640 found out who bought the medals that were sold because my father 346 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:42,080 gave the medals to his girlfriend who had them for 10 347 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:44,040 years. And then she felt that in some 348 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:46,640 way they should go back. And so she sent them to the 349 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:49,120 American Legion Post that he was a part of in Maine. 350 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:53,040 About 5 or 10 years ago, the American Legion Post closed so 351 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:54,440 they didn't know what to do with them. 352 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:58,400 And so they found the step sister, his daughter, and they 353 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:02,080 gave them to her. Well, she immediately sold them 354 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:06,160 and she sold them to a coin and metal dealer. 355 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:12,359 And well, this one gentleman who contacted my aunt to want to do 356 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,839 something for my dad contacted another guy who knew the guy 357 00:17:15,839 --> 00:17:19,560 that may have had him. And now we're driving down on 358 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:21,720 the last day, you know, getting ready to fly out. 359 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:26,640 And we show up and he has the medals and I meet two couples, 360 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:29,600 both my my dad's friends. One of them was one of my dad's 361 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:31,840 ex girlfriends. And we were walking up to the 362 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:35,160 store, she cried. She saw me and she cried because 363 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:37,400 they didn't know anything about me, but I looked just like him 364 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:40,240 and this guy. I mean, this is how God works. 365 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:43,560 This is serendipity. He bought them, but he didn't 366 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:47,280 break them up and sell them. He kept them intact in case at 367 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:50,000 some point in time, somebody from the family, he would be 368 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,080 able to return them and give them back. 369 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:56,640 Along with a certificate that my father received when he was 370 00:17:56,640 --> 00:18:00,200 inaugurated into the Legion of Valor by Congress in 1990s. 371 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,760 And all of us are in there and it's emotional. 372 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:06,200 And they knew my dad. And now they're meeting me. 373 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:11,040 And day before I met my my brother, he gives me my dad's 374 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:15,600 flag from his military funeral. And he says to me, he goes, the 375 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:19,240 oldest son should have this and the two bullets that they fired 376 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:23,400 when they had the service. And so we took him home with us. 377 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:27,120 And then I had them all all framed together, all the medals 378 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:29,880 with the Legion of Valor certificate in the middle and 379 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:35,160 the flag on top, you know, with the Purple Heart on the flag and 380 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:36,600 his name on the bottom with the bullets. 381 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,920 One of the things that I have been able to do for my dad, a 382 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:42,160 lot of his friends wanted him to get upgraded to the Medal of 383 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:44,000 Honor. The three star general in the 384 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:45,960 field could have issued the Medal of Honor and my dad 385 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,120 actually requested it right before he passed. 386 00:18:48,120 --> 00:18:52,120 He died of a a brain tumor. He had Agent Orange, he had a 387 00:18:52,120 --> 00:18:54,560 throat cancer and he had a tumor in the brain. 388 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:57,440 And then he ended up playing him a stroke, but he petitioned for 389 00:18:57,440 --> 00:18:58,400 it. And they said, well, the three 390 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:00,000 star general could have given you at the time, but the 391 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,200 Distinguished Service Cross holds a lot of weight. 392 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:06,520 But I really felt like he should with being the second highly 393 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,400 decorated, you know, veteran in the state of Maine, that he 394 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:12,640 should have a place somewhere because he didn't have, he 395 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:15,880 didn't have a marker in the Eastport Cemetery, right. 396 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:20,120 And so right now I'm waiting for one certificate that's being 397 00:19:20,120 --> 00:19:22,680 mailed out to me. And they're going to, they're 398 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:27,720 going to put him in Arlington. And so then they schedule the 399 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:33,320 service and takes about a year, some Uncle Bill and my cousins, 400 00:19:33,360 --> 00:19:34,960 all his friends that are still alive. 401 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:36,160 So no. So they're going to all come 402 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:38,120 down for the ceremony at our Arlington. 403 00:19:38,360 --> 00:19:41,200 Oh, that's amazing. And I imagine just hearing all 404 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:46,080 of that made you feel closer to him, You know, a lot of the. 405 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:49,680 Yeah, things that come up for. People who have had these. 406 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:53,640 DNA discoveries as those what ifs and kind of that longing, 407 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,040 especially after somebody has passed. 408 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:58,840 Do you have? Questions for him that you want 409 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:01,000 to ask? I mean, I know we can't dwell 410 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:04,720 too much on the what ifs of it all, but you know what? 411 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:08,320 What's still there for you? I have no questions. 412 00:20:08,360 --> 00:20:10,360 Like my dad's a part of me now, you know what I mean? 413 00:20:10,360 --> 00:20:13,720 It's like he might have passed, but I see him and I say prayers 414 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:16,480 every morning and he's part of them, and we communicate to each 415 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:18,840 other and I know he's there. He's in my heart. 416 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:22,840 It's almost like I didn't get to meet him physically, but we 417 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:26,680 connected, you know, Like once he found me, his medals found 418 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:29,720 me. Once this all came to me, my dad 419 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:32,640 found me and he's a part of me, you know? 420 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:35,160 And I know him and I know the good of him and I know the 421 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:37,600 difficulties of him. There's a lot of genetics going 422 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:39,960 on in that family, like alcoholism and drug addiction on 423 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:42,000 both sides of that family. And those are the things that I 424 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,320 struggle with. And so that's really part of my 425 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:46,040 life today. I struggle with that in my life. 426 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:51,960 I ended up working in that field and I run a non profit and one 427 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:55,320 of our programs in one of our missions now is to open up a 428 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:59,120 veterans only sober house in Jacksonville that helps veterans 429 00:20:59,120 --> 00:21:01,160 with PTSD. My dad struggle with substance 430 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:03,840 abuse and PTSD. And so it's almost like 431 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:06,720 everything that I've been trained for, everything that I 432 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:09,960 went through and experienced in my life, everything kind of like 433 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:13,120 brought me to that DNA story and then that DNA story has brought 434 00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:16,960 me to my purpose now. And were you doing all of this 435 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,920 like addiction and recovery work before? 436 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,120 Prior. To discovering him so. 437 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:25,840 So you were already kind of on that, the serendipity of it all. 438 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:27,360 Yeah, I already had our nonprofit. 439 00:21:27,360 --> 00:21:28,720 We were already doing work in the field. 440 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:32,280 I was already working with trauma groups in, in drug courts 441 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:34,760 and I was already doing a lot of stuff within the community. 442 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,360 Prior to that, I was a certified addiction professional years 443 00:21:37,360 --> 00:21:39,600 earlier. I worked in rehabs and I worked 444 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:41,280 for drug court and I did other things. 445 00:21:41,360 --> 00:21:43,600 I got my doctorate and I got my MBA and I thought I was going to 446 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:44,960 teach. And then I'm like, no, I need to 447 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:46,440 get back. And so that's when I created the 448 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:48,680 foundation and we started doing this work. 449 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,920 And so now we have this umbrella foundation that's uniquely set 450 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:57,480 up to really now be able to start this program. 75% really 451 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:00,120 overlaps of PTSD and substance abuse with veterans. 452 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:02,800 And so, you know, like my dad gave back to veterans. 453 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:07,280 And so I'm going to use his story and what he did to really 454 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:12,600 reach out and promote the mission of second mission. 455 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:15,320 And I'm so grateful for that because, you know, it's, it's 456 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:18,640 almost like I found, I found him and, and I found my purpose and 457 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:20,960 it was his purpose. And I'm a veteran too. 458 00:22:21,120 --> 00:22:23,680 And so now, you know, we can really kind of do this together. 459 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,040 If people are curious and want to learn more about your 460 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,040 nonprofit, where can they find you? 461 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:32,480 Veteran sober house Veteran Sober house.org Second Mission 462 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:35,920 Veteran Sober House. OK, You said that you grew up 463 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:40,520 very close with your mother, who raised you, not as close with 464 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:44,040 your father and brother. But you said you're closer to 465 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,720 your to your dad now. What does he think of all this? 466 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:49,320 He's interested. You know, you got to be really 467 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:51,120 delicate. So, you know, like my mom passed 468 00:22:51,120 --> 00:22:53,080 years ago. My mom's not here anymore. 469 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:57,520 My father's going to be 90 in a couple days, and I'm 58. 470 00:22:58,360 --> 00:23:00,640 So as we've grown older, it's become easier. 471 00:23:01,120 --> 00:23:05,080 You know, I'm not the crazy son that I used to be stabilized and 472 00:23:05,360 --> 00:23:08,080 really gone the other way. And so he's really proud of 473 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:09,720 that. And we don't talk about it a 474 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,800 lot, but I did tell him what I had found and we found it 475 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,120 interesting and, and he thought that it was good. 476 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:18,120 So it's nice that he has some acceptance of that now. 477 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,960 We were just always different people, you know, he was, we're 478 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:23,200 just very different. And it was just hard for them. 479 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,160 I was very outgoing, the camping hunting kind of guy. 480 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,200 And they were like, you know, the math kind of guy, you know, 481 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,640 we were, we're just were different. 482 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,880 And it's, you know, but as a kid, you don't understand that, 483 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:35,960 you know? Sure. 484 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:42,560 Did he have any reaction to the reality of your adoption 485 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:44,880 circumstances? He didn't say anything. 486 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,600 You could just kind of tell by his expression that it kind of 487 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:49,800 probably answered some questions for him. 488 00:23:50,120 --> 00:23:51,400 Really. Unfortunately, they really 489 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:52,960 didn't know what they were getting themselves into. 490 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:57,280 I was a terror as a kid, you know, in in school in my early 491 00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:59,520 teens, in my early 20s, I got in a lot of trouble. 492 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:03,320 I was a lot like my dad, you know, had those genetics. 493 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:05,880 And it's funny because I mean, it's so much like him because 494 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:09,200 now that I'm able to hear true stories from cousins who were 495 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:13,520 around him a lot as kids and now they're older and just to hear 496 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:15,520 the things, it's just so similar. 497 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,000 It's crazy. And not only looks, but 498 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,400 sometimes you get like the personality of 1 and the looks 499 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,440 of the other. It's just like I got all him, 500 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:24,880 you know? And for better or worse. 501 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:29,880 Yeah, you do so much work around addiction and recovery and and 502 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:34,200 support for veterans. Do you have any thoughts on 503 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:38,720 adoption and like adoption policies and things like that? 504 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:42,120 Because a lot of people who have been through similar stories to 505 00:24:42,120 --> 00:24:44,960 your own are in the adoption advocacy space. 506 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,480 So I'm curious on how that's affected you. 507 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:50,640 Well, I'm always for adoption. In fact, I was always planning 508 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,480 on adopting myself. I ended up having two daughters. 509 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:55,000 It just never was in the cards for me. 510 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,160 But I really wanted to. And it's like now it's pretty 511 00:24:58,160 --> 00:24:59,880 cool because now I'm able to work with so many people. 512 00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:02,000 It's almost like I'm adopting them, you know? 513 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,000 But I think that it's a shame that they weren't told the 514 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,400 truth. You wonder if a lot of these 515 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:08,720 children would have gotten adopted. 516 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:10,960 But I mean, I, I really kind of thought that it was a business 517 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,960 for them, you know what I mean? So they were making, they were, 518 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,320 they were making money, you know, off of, you know, 519 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:20,600 people's, you know, in a desperate area in a desperate 520 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,680 time. If I had grown up knowing who I 521 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:27,720 was, if I had grown up like in an orphanage in that area, I 522 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:29,960 would have turned out a lot even worse than I had I heard it was. 523 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,000 I mean, the only, I think, you know, say in addiction and in 524 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:34,760 recovery, you know, we tell our stories. 525 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,840 And I always say that they saved my life, not just because they 526 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,960 adopted me, but because of the area that I grew up in, the love 527 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,160 that they gave me and I had food and I was safe and they were 528 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,360 nurturing. I wasn't necessarily super close 529 00:25:47,360 --> 00:25:50,080 to them, but I mean, I was still very cared for. 530 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,760 And that touched me, that changed me. 531 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,400 And it probably turned out, even though I was still difficult and 532 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,800 still got in trouble, it would have been a lot worse hadn't I 533 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,520 gotten all that. So nature, nurture, I mean, the 534 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,680 nurturing that I got definitely saved my life and really helped, 535 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,520 I'm sure, develop me into the person with the values, the core 536 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:11,000 values and the character that I was brought up to know and 537 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,320 understand saved my life and gave me a chance. 538 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,080 So they gave me more chances than just the adoption. 539 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:18,240 And so I'm really grateful for that. 540 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,120 I would always want a child to get adopted in instead of, you 541 00:26:21,120 --> 00:26:24,520 know, being, you know, the alternative, you know? 542 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:25,440 Yeah. But there should be 543 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,120 transparency. Yeah, that's what I was going to 544 00:26:27,120 --> 00:26:27,680 say. I guess. 545 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:32,360 I guess my question is maybe around reform in in adoption, 546 00:26:32,360 --> 00:26:34,720 you know as you said it was sort of a business. 547 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,480 So you know, if you had any, any thoughts around that? 548 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:39,400 And I don't know what it's like now to adopt somebody. 549 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:41,120 I mean, I don't know what the vetting process is or what the 550 00:26:41,120 --> 00:26:42,680 transparency is. You would think that it was 551 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,760 better in the late 60s up there. I mean, they're not just the 552 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:47,560 late 60s. It was the entire 60s because a 553 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,560 lot of kids got adopted by this, this lawyer and this doctor. 554 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:52,280 That's probably just the Wild West. 555 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:54,040 They were just doing what they wanted to do. 556 00:26:54,360 --> 00:26:56,360 There was all these kids, there's getting pregnant. 557 00:26:56,360 --> 00:26:57,840 There was nothing really to do up there. 558 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,960 It was rural, desperate, you know, area. 559 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,480 You built chips, it snowed and you drank. 560 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,080 So at least maybe they were making money, but at least they 561 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,160 were giving these kids the opportunity because they knew 562 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:11,440 they were going to good families. 563 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:12,960 So maybe that's how they justified it. 564 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,040 I don't know. But they were all, but they were 565 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:17,360 also, you know, getting the kids that they got. 566 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,360 Right. You, you kind of talked about 567 00:27:20,360 --> 00:27:24,080 what's next and hopefully getting to lay your father to 568 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:28,920 rest in Arlington and you've talked about how your your 569 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,440 connection has grown a bit more with your adoptive father. 570 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:37,480 Sounds like the path with your mother is closed off for now and 571 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:39,600 not something that that you're going to pursue. 572 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:44,920 I'm curious just overall how this experience has affected or 573 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:45,880 transformed. You. 574 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:48,040 It's healed me. It, it's healed me. 575 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:50,880 You know, it's like you spend a good part of your life not 576 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,600 knowing who you are, where you come from, who your people are. 577 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,480 Why were you giving up? Why weren't you wanted? 578 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:58,360 Are you wanted? Is there somebody looking for 579 00:27:58,360 --> 00:28:01,680 you? All these questions, you know, 580 00:28:02,120 --> 00:28:03,600 it all happened the way that it was supposed to. 581 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:07,200 I found out what I needed to know at when I needed to know it 582 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:11,160 at 56, I found out. But look what happened after 583 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:12,800 that. And it's been really good for 584 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:16,880 like a lot of my dad's family and his friends because now they 585 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,760 have me, you know? And so it's like now I have all 586 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,640 these new friends that were my dad's friends who are part of my 587 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,600 life now and they care about me and I care about them. 588 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,400 And it's just awesome. I never expected that. 589 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,760 So it's like, if I can't have him, I have everybody that knew 590 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,960 him and also the family that's that's still there. 591 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,040 And it's a lot. It's almost like I'm a whole 592 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,840 person now where I wasn't before. 593 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:46,400 It's also really good because I think at the time if it maybe if 594 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,280 I happened when I was a little bit younger, it would have gone 595 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:49,520 differently. But because I'm a little bit 596 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,640 more mature, I'm really to able to accept everything and really 597 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:57,200 be open to the entire experience and really then try and use it 598 00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,720 for whatever good I can. It's been really fun, 599 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:04,080 interesting for my family, my wife and my kids and all my 600 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,760 friends that know me. You know, it's just, it's God 601 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:12,160 working in my life and I'm just so grateful, you know, for that. 602 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:15,760 All right. Well, my last two questions that 603 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:20,320 I ask everyone and I'll probably tweak them a little bit for your 604 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:25,240 scenario, but the first question is what advice? 605 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:31,080 Do you have for a? Parent, or in your case, maybe a 606 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:35,120 birth parent who's going to relinquish their child for 607 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:39,080 adoption but maybe keeping the circumstances a secret. 608 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,320 What advice would? You have for those people. 609 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:42,760 I would say don't hold anything back. 610 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:44,480 I mean, it goes back to the conversation I had with my 611 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:45,640 parents. And you know, what really 612 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,160 affected me as I, I found out that I was adopted at a very 613 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,280 young age. I was in second grade and that 614 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,280 kind of messed my head up. I think that I was really too 615 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:55,840 young to be told at that time. But as I got a little bit older, 616 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,440 I told my parents. I said I need to find them. 617 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,680 I need to find, you know what answers that I can. 618 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:01,840 But it has nothing to do with you. 619 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:03,960 It's no reflection on you. I love you. 620 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:05,200 I'm so grateful. You're my parents. 621 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:06,920 You're always being parents. I'm not trying to replace you. 622 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,520 Just understand. I have this need to kind of 623 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:11,440 know, you know, kind of understand. 624 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:13,920 So knowing that as a parent, if you're getting ready to go for a 625 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,720 kid up for adoption, they may want to know, but it's also the 626 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:18,560 parents, right? Like it's also my mother's 627 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:20,760 right. When I wrote her that letter, I 628 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:22,560 said, this is who I am. I just want you to let you know 629 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,040 that I, I turned out OK. You know, I have kids. 630 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:26,280 This is who I am, this is what I'm doing. 631 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:28,360 If you want to get a hold of me, man, I would love that. 632 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:30,880 That'd be great. But if not, I respect that, You 633 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,360 know what I mean? Unfortunately, she probably 634 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,480 wasn't in a position to really have a have a child, right? 635 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:41,160 And so regardless of the circumstances, she did decide to 636 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:43,280 do a very selfless thing and to give her percent. 637 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:47,280 So that's a huge sacrifice. What advice do you have for 638 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:51,760 someone who just uncovered a DNA surprise or a DNA discovery? 639 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,360 I think you have to make that decision before you get the 640 00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,240 results. You have to really be able ready 641 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,640 for whatever you know the circumstances are. 642 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,600 In my case, it turned out to be more good than bad. 643 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,080 But you do hear stories where it doesn't turn out, you know, 644 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:09,040 positive. I hate to give advice, but how I 645 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,000 look at it from you personally is I'm grateful to be alive. 646 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,840 I'm grateful that I was adopted. I'm grateful to have what I have 647 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,200 it. In the event that it didn't go 648 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:21,400 the way that I wanted to or that I found information that was 649 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,720 disturbing, I would have to accept it and just know that 650 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,560 that's not me, you know, that's them. 651 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,280 And maybe it was better in that case that I didn't know them or 652 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:32,600 didn't meet them or that I wasn't raised by them. 653 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,840 But at least I know you know what I mean. 654 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:37,480 And it doesn't have to be public information. 655 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,040 Everybody else doesn't have to know about it, you know, but 656 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,720 just be willing to accept my connection. 657 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,400 I can have some, you know, some peace, some peace with it, you 658 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,640 know, and at least you could find out who you are. 659 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,080 That's good advice. Awesome. 660 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,520 Well, Barry, thank you so much for joining me today. 661 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:58,040 I really appreciate you taking the time to Share your story. 662 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,360 I'm so glad that you've been able to connect with the people 663 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:06,120 who want you in their lives on your mom's side and that you've 664 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:09,040 made these amazing connections on your father's side and gotten 665 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:13,040 to learn so much about him. Please keep me posted on how 666 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:16,560 things go with Arlington. That's such an incredible story 667 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:18,560 and and journey and thing that you're doing for him. 668 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:20,520 So thank you and I wish you the best. 669 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:23,760 Thanks and Alexis, thank you and what you're doing because, you 670 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,880 know, really being able to tell the story, you know, put it out 671 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:28,680 there that it may help somebody else. 672 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:30,760 I know that it is. I've listened to the other 673 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:32,520 podcasts. This is life. 674 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,520 And this is really an important thing that people go through, 675 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,640 you know, and so we do need to come together and to share that. 676 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,520 So thank you for, you know, allowing me to be part of of 677 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,320 that and what you're doing and and part of the story. 678 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,640 So thank you so much. Thanks again to Barry for 679 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,120 sharing his story. If you'd like to learn more 680 00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:52,640 about Barry's work, I've included links in the show 681 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,080 notes. If you have adna surprise that 682 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,800 you'd like to share, please submit your story at 683 00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:03,600 dnasurprises.com and for early ad free access to episodes, join 684 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:07,840 me over on patreon@patreon.com/DNA 685 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:12,960 Surprises. Until next time, DNA Surprises 686 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:17,800 is hosted, produced and edited by me, Alexis Oursalt. 687 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:22,600 It is mixed and mastered by Josh Oursalt of Siren Recording 688 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:23,400 Studios.