1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,160 I'm not a religious person. I did not grow up religious at 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:07,680 all. But when I initially got my DNA 3 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:11,720 results through Ancestry and I had that second cousin match 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:15,840 that led me to Facebook and my own private investigating, I 5 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:18,840 always describe it as there had to have been some divine 6 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:21,800 intervention there. Because the person I found that 7 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:25,560 led me to the correct family is somebody who did not take ADNA 8 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:28,520 test and was not that person on Ancestry. 9 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:32,040 I'm like, what the heck just happened? 10 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:37,240 So bizarre. But I'm grateful for that. 11 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:41,480 And yeah, I don't know how to explain it, but it led me to the 12 00:00:41,480 --> 00:00:45,280 right person. Welcome to DNA Surprises, a 13 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:48,680 podcast that delves into the world of unexpected DNA 14 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:52,280 discoveries. I'm your host Alexis, our salt. 15 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:58,320 In July 2021, my life took a surprising turn when I found out 16 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:03,120 that I'm an NPE, a person who has experienced a non paternal 17 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:06,480 event. In other words, my biological 18 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:08,760 father isn't who I thought he was. 19 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:14,520 Join me as we explore the stories of NP, ES, adoptees, and 20 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,040 donor conceived people and their families. 21 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:21,000 Get ready to unravel the astonishing journeys that begin 22 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:26,360 with a simple DNA test. This is DNA surprises. 23 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:32,960 Not every DNA surprise has a happy ending, and sometimes what 24 00:01:32,960 --> 00:01:35,480 seems like a happy ending takes a turn. 25 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:41,120 But the opposite is also true. In this week's episode, Shannon 26 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:44,720 shares how she learned the truth about her paternity and had to 27 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:48,000 wait several years before she could identify her biological 28 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:51,280 father. When she finally found him, he 29 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:54,920 was receptive before quickly closing off any hope of a 30 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:59,040 relationship until he had another change of heart. 31 00:01:59,920 --> 00:02:02,640 Thank you for sharing your story, Shannon. 32 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:07,080 My name is Shannon. I am 45 years old and from the 33 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:09,759 western suburbs of Chicago in Illinois. 34 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:14,120 My story is maybe a little different than ones that you've 35 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:17,920 previously heard, but I know that it will resonate with other 36 00:02:17,920 --> 00:02:21,160 people. So I grew up the youngest of 37 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:23,840 five children. It was very known in my family 38 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:27,720 that my oldest two siblings had different fathers than the 39 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:30,680 youngest 3. So forsake of, you know, 40 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:35,200 clarifying, I will say my oldest siblings are A&B and then the 41 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:37,520 younger three are CD, and then there's me. 42 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:42,560 So A had one father, which was well known in my family. 43 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:44,800 Everybody talked about it. We knew his name. 44 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:48,320 B had a different father also talked about. 45 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:53,680 We all knew his name. CD and me apparently had the 46 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:56,360 same father and that was my birth certificate father. 47 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:59,200 So I call him dad and that's how I'll refer to him. 48 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:04,520 So my dad, who raised me, was the father of my middle two 49 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:08,880 siblings, C&D. Growing up, I always knew that I 50 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:11,920 was a little different. I had darker skin than my 51 00:03:11,920 --> 00:03:15,000 siblings. It was just not something that 52 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:17,720 was really talked about. And as I got to be a little bit 53 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:22,840 older, probably around 7 or 8 years old, I would always want 54 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,120 to hang out with my older brother, who's four years older 55 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:27,600 than me. And he and his friends would 56 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:31,160 often call me names and use racial slurs. 57 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:34,600 And, you know, that's kind of the beginning where I started to 58 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,560 really understand that there's something different here. 59 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:41,640 Fast forward, I not only physically look differently than 60 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:45,880 my siblings, but personality wise and pretty much every other 61 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:48,240 way, I, I was the black sheep of the family. 62 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:53,960 Drugs and alcohol ran rampant among my four older siblings. 63 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:56,920 There was schizophrenia in my family. 64 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:59,160 There was a lot of just a lot of stuff. 65 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:00,760 There was a lot of chaos in my house. 66 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:05,720 I was the kid who flew under the radar and did not get involved 67 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:08,560 with drugs or alcohol. Went through, graduated high 68 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:10,400 school, never caused any trouble. 69 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:13,840 I was that kid because I knew my parents were busy with everybody 70 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:16,279 else. Fast forward to when I was about 71 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:21,440 16, my mom's sister, so my maternal aunt, she and I were 72 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:27,080 pretty close and she would often take me up to Madison, WI just 73 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:29,720 for the day, just to go shopping, just spend time 74 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:33,360 together. And she told me just kind of out 75 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:36,840 of the blue that my dad was not my biological father. 76 00:04:36,840 --> 00:04:39,640 And at this point, I had suspected it for many years. 77 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:43,600 So I kind of knew. And I don't even remember how I 78 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,520 responded to that, but I remember that conversation. 79 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,440 And I think, you know, probably a little bit of dissociation 80 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:51,800 there where I just kind of blocked everything out because I 81 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:53,640 don't remember anything after that. 82 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:58,320 So hearing that from my aunt kind of confirmed it for me. 83 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:04,360 And I never asked about it because my dad treated me as his 84 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:09,800 own child and I was his kid. So I knew that by asking about 85 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:13,160 it, it would kind of upset him. And I didn't want to do that. 86 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:17,320 Prior to that conversation, when you kind of always knew that you 87 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:21,160 were different from your family, did you wonder, like, am I 88 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:24,840 adopted or is my dad my biological father? 89 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,800 I think oftentimes people say they think that they were 90 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:30,040 adopted. They don't necessarily suspect 91 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:32,040 that it's one parent. Sure. 92 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:35,240 Yeah. So knowing the history and that 93 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:40,160 my mom had other children prior to meeting my dad, I I never had 94 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:45,040 the feeling I was adopted. I look just like my mom, just 95 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:46,960 darker skin. So I was like, I know that that 96 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:49,760 is there, but there was always that part of me that would look 97 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:53,560 for similarities between myself and my dad because even though I 98 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,840 suspected it, I didn't want to believe it. 99 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:00,320 So I would always look at like his hand shape or, you know, his 100 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:02,880 toes and just like weird things like that, his ears. 101 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:04,760 And I'm like, do we have the same features? 102 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:09,040 So I never asked about it because I didn't want to upset 103 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:14,080 my dad and he like I said, treated me just like his own 104 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:16,360 child. Never showed me that I was 105 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,640 different. I did often wonder after my aunt 106 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:24,880 told me if I had other siblings and if they were more like me. 107 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:30,000 And so that was always something that kind of consumed my 108 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:32,120 thoughts, but again, never asked. 109 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:36,920 So after I got married and was pregnant, that was when I 110 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:41,120 decided that I needed some answers and asked my mom. 111 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:45,400 We were at their house and I was able to get her just alone. 112 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:49,640 So I had asked her, you know, because I also struggle with a 113 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,520 number of health problems and I'm the only one in my family 114 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:56,160 who has those problems. They are not passed down from my 115 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:58,400 mom's side. They were not passed down from 116 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:04,360 any other side that I knew of. So while I was pregnant, my 117 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:07,000 husband and I knew we were only going to have one child and we 118 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:08,920 wanted to make sure that he was healthy. 119 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:13,960 So growing up and not knowing the other half of my medical 120 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:17,080 history, I felt it was important to ask my mom. 121 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:21,680 So I just kind of point blank asked her, you know who my 122 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:26,040 father is. And she got very quiet and 123 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:30,120 started to cry. And she told me his name. 124 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:35,200 It is essentially the Hispanic equivalent of John Smith. 125 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:40,920 And she told me what town he lived in, which in my area is 126 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:43,640 growing up, it was a very Hispanic area. 127 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:46,480 So I was like, well, this is a needle in a haystack. 128 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:50,080 Thanks, mom. So that was literally all she 129 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:52,400 gave me was a name and where she knew him from. 130 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:55,120 When you're having this conversation with your mom. 131 00:07:55,520 --> 00:08:00,360 What year is it? So this is 2008. 132 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:04,400 OK, so this is before you could just take an ancestry test. 133 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:08,240 So at this point you're trying to get information from her and 134 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:11,920 then as you said, she gives you basically a John Smith type 135 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:14,120 name. What do you do next with that 136 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:19,440 information? So when she gave me the name and 137 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:21,320 told me what town he lived in, I did. 138 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:26,520 You know, a Google search and was not able to find anything. 139 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:29,280 And when she gave me the name, I'll give you the first name, 140 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:32,880 and she said it was Al. I was like, what is Al short for 141 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:37,039 mom? So I didn't have that either. 142 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:41,480 So it made it very difficult finding anything on my father. 143 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:45,720 I chopped it up to being a lost cause and just kind of went on 144 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:48,640 and still never mentioned it to my dad. 145 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:54,040 Fast forward to 2015. At that point I was at home 146 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:59,360 recovering from a spinal surgery and my eldest brother, so 147 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:02,120 sibling B, had unexpectedly died. 148 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:08,160 He was the one growing up who knew his father, and as a 149 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:11,120 teenager I tried to help him find his father. 150 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:15,200 We were able to find his phone number and I was there when he 151 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:19,440 called him and his father rejected him and said, I don't 152 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:21,240 know you. I don't want I don't want 153 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:24,400 anything to do with you. And I saw what that did to him. 154 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:30,480 So thinking back on my brother, I was like, I need to find out 155 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:34,960 who my father is. At that point, DNA testing was 156 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:37,840 commercially available and I ordered a test. 157 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:41,480 It took a long time. So this was December, so I 158 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:45,160 didn't get results until probably March of 2016. 159 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:50,120 I got those results and recognized my maternal side and 160 00:09:50,560 --> 00:09:55,640 there were a lot of Hispanic names and I was like, OK, well I 161 00:09:55,640 --> 00:10:00,200 know that this is true, but I didn't have any close 162 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:02,240 connections. The closest one I had was a 163 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:09,480 second cousin with the initials of S S and on Ancestry it said 164 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:11,160 her name. So I was like all right, well 165 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:15,560 this is something to go on. So I did what any DNA detective 166 00:10:15,560 --> 00:10:18,840 would do and decided to do some private investigating. 167 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:22,560 So I hopped on social media and I was like, all right, let's 168 00:10:22,560 --> 00:10:26,440 look for this s s person in the town my mom told me my 169 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:32,360 biological father was from. So I looked and I found one in 170 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:35,880 that town by the same name, and I was like, all right, let's 171 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:40,240 look through the friends list and see if maybe she has a 172 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:42,280 person on there by the name of my father. 173 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:46,040 So I looked, scanning through her friends, and there was 174 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:48,440 somebody with the same name, but he was a junior. 175 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:52,120 So I clicked on that profile, decided, OK, if he's a junior 176 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:55,720 and he's about my age, a little younger, what do his parents 177 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:58,120 look like? So I was scanning through his 178 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:02,080 photos, I came across a picture of his mom and dad when they 179 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:04,840 were younger, probably twenties, 30s. 180 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:09,360 And as soon as I saw that, I knew looking at that man that 181 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:11,880 was my father, the similarities were there. 182 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:14,600 It was the eyes, it was the eye shape. 183 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:17,360 Everything I said, that is who I'm looking for. 184 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:21,080 How did you feel when you saw that when you saw him? 185 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:27,200 I, you know, it was a very bizarre thing because I said 186 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:29,960 I've always looked just like my mom, But then I saw that and was 187 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:33,840 like, holy cow, I look like my dad. 188 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:39,200 So I knew. And, you know, I wanted to tread 189 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:41,640 lightly. I had sat down with my birth 190 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:44,440 certificate father, the man who raised me, and we talked about 191 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:50,320 this and he was upset because he thought my mom had told me years 192 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,040 ago. I said she never told me. 193 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:55,680 I asked her and that's how I found out. 194 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:57,920 He knew. He knew I was not his. 195 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:00,320 When did you have this conversation with him and what 196 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:03,800 made you decide to have the conversation? 197 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:08,600 We had this discussion probably in March. 198 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:14,480 So right after I got my DNA test results, he came to my house and 199 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:18,720 we just had a one-on-one chat. And the reason was that I was 200 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:22,560 pretty vocal about looking for the side of my family that I 201 00:12:22,560 --> 00:12:25,520 didn't know. And I was pretty vocal about my 202 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:29,080 reasons that I needed to know my health history and my son needed 203 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:32,120 his health history. I got some pushback from some 204 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:35,960 siblings for even looking because how dare I do that? 205 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:40,600 My dad is my dad and he raised me and just by looking I said it 206 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:43,160 doesn't negate the fact that he is the man who raised me. 207 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:47,320 He's my dad. But this has also been kept from 208 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:49,920 me my whole life and I need that information. 209 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:53,680 Did all of your siblings know that you knew before your dad 210 00:12:53,680 --> 00:12:58,280 did and everything? They So here's the thing about 211 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,840 my family. So we growing up we knew both of 212 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:03,800 my oldest siblings had different dads. 213 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:06,400 It was well known. It was also well known in my 214 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:11,560 family that I had a different dad and everybody talked about 215 00:13:11,560 --> 00:13:14,080 it, but nobody talked to me about it. 216 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:18,240 So everybody knew but had never talked to me about it. 217 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:20,720 Yeah. So growing up, my siblings knew 218 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:23,840 everybody knew aunts, uncles, cousins. 219 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:29,280 And. My dad, he not only knew, but he 220 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:32,240 gave me the piece of information that kind of solidified 221 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:36,080 everything. He told me I worked with your 222 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:41,080 biological uncle for years. I was like, I'm sorry, what? 223 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:45,440 And he said we work together and he was a great friend. 224 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:50,600 He told me his name. So I had sent a message to this 225 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:55,840 s s person and just asked, do you have an uncle maybe by this 226 00:13:55,840 --> 00:14:00,360 name? And told her that I had never 227 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:03,800 met my biological father and was just looking for that medical 228 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:08,320 background. So she responded to me and said 229 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:13,560 that she had a step uncle by that name and said I'm going to 230 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:19,000 connect you to my sister because she is his biological niece. 231 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:25,160 I was like, OK, and also this s s that I found had never taken 232 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:28,640 ADNA test. So I started talking to her 233 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:32,280 sister and I'm like, all right, so you have an uncle by this 234 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:36,080 name and you know, she saw photos of me from when I was a 235 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:38,320 kid. She was like, holy cow, you are 236 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:41,720 a part of this family. At this point, I reached out to 237 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:46,480 the junior. So my biological father's son, I 238 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:49,080 reached out to him and just asked a couple questions. 239 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:52,840 I had asked him if he had an uncle by this name who worked at 240 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:55,560 this place, and he said yes, I did. 241 00:14:55,680 --> 00:15:01,920 And I told him why he was very willing to help me, but then 242 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:06,800 threw me for a curveball because he added his mom on to the 243 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,440 discussion. He said I think she would be 244 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:13,480 better at helping you. So it was a conversation between 245 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:19,880 my paternal half brother and his mom and me. 246 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:23,720 So she started asking me, you know, what was your mom's name, 247 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:26,440 what year were you born, all of these things. 248 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:30,360 And this is taking place over the course of a couple days. 249 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:37,000 So prior to reaching out to my paternal half brother, I had 250 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:42,040 written a letter to my biological father and included 251 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:44,200 photos and sent it to their house. 252 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:48,040 And they live about 20 minutes from me and have my entire life. 253 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:53,520 So I sent this and after a couple days of answering my half 254 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:57,560 brother's mom's questions and feeling really deceptive I was 255 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:01,480 like I need to pull the Band-Aid off I can't just I can't do 256 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:04,800 this. So I told her and my brother 257 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:10,600 that the name my mom gave me was this and she told me that he 258 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:15,600 lived here and at that point my brother dropped off of the 259 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:19,720 conversation and blocked me. Was he older than you? 260 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,200 He is younger than me by 6 years. 261 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:29,200 OK, so, yeah, interesting. OK, 'cause at first I thought 262 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:34,120 maybe that reaction was my dad had an affair or something like 263 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:34,960 that. OK. 264 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:39,120 Yeah. His mom did not respond, but 265 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:44,040 went and found my letter and brought it to my father. 266 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,800 What I was told is that he worked overnight, so he was 267 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:50,800 asleep and would let his mail just kind of like pile up. 268 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:54,400 So he hadn't seen it. So she brought it to him. 269 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:57,960 He opened it. And then he called me that 270 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:03,960 afternoon and had told me that yes, he he knew my mother and 271 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:08,760 told me where he met her and gave me some medical history. 272 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:13,359 And then he asked if I wanted to meet for breakfast and this was 273 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:16,280 not even something I thought about because I was like, I 274 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:18,079 really just want my medical history. 275 00:17:18,079 --> 00:17:23,200 I said yes that we could do that, but his wife stepped in 276 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:27,160 and said we're not doing that. I then got a phone call telling 277 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:32,760 me that he never knew my mother and that he wanted me to stop 278 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:35,680 contacting him. From him he called you and said 279 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:38,000 that. From him, he did. 280 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:43,040 It was one of those times when I felt like a piece of my heart 281 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:45,640 had just been shattered, a piece that he didn't even know wasn't 282 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:49,360 there, and it was devastating to me. 283 00:17:49,360 --> 00:17:55,320 I continued talking to my cousin who I had met, and she and I met 284 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:59,280 and had breakfast. She brought another cousin and 285 00:17:59,960 --> 00:18:03,800 the first cousin had agreed to do adna test for me, so she did 286 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:06,480 that and it showed her first cousins. 287 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:10,480 This was 2016, so probably summer 2016. 288 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:17,320 I met her mother who was my paternal aunt, and she welcomed 289 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:20,760 me with open arms and it was lovely because she would invite 290 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:25,600 us to holidays and both my son and my husband said I feel more 291 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:30,200 comfortable with them than I've ever felt with the family that 292 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:33,120 you grew up with. Did you feel that too? 293 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:36,040 I also felt that way. Yeah. 294 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:39,520 I was like, yeah, no, this is where I'm supposed to be. 295 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:42,240 This continued. And, you know, we still have a 296 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:44,960 great relationship. My my aunt, my Thea and my 297 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:46,360 cousins. We're all good. 298 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:51,600 But later in 2016, I reached out to another brother because I 299 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:54,160 found out I have 3 on my father's side. 300 00:18:55,120 --> 00:18:58,040 So I reached out to the middle brother, who we'll just call 301 00:18:58,040 --> 00:18:58,720 him. Why? 302 00:18:59,960 --> 00:19:06,040 So he and I connected. I met him, he was upset because 303 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:09,800 we had so much in common and he was upset that I grew up 20 304 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:13,120 minutes away from them and we never knew each other. 305 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:16,360 I was upset too. I felt like I had been robbed of 306 00:19:16,360 --> 00:19:21,600 knowing my brothers and that side of my family because my 307 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:23,840 father as it turns out is one of 10. 308 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:29,360 So I have 9 aunts and uncles and countless cousins on that side. 309 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:34,240 So it did feel like I had just been robbed of all of that. 310 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:39,760 Did your dad or your mom, your birth certificate dad or your 311 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:46,760 mom tell you why they didn't disclose this truth to you? 312 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:51,680 They did not, but I think that it was because my mom had an 313 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:53,680 affair on my birth certificate. Father. 314 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:58,240 There's a lot of shame in that. So I think that was probably the 315 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:01,280 reason. And my, my mom passed away in 316 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:05,040 2012. So all of this happened after 317 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:07,040 that. So you know at that point she 318 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:10,680 had taken any information she had with her, hence the DNA 319 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:15,560 testing. OK, so your dad, did he give you 320 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:20,880 any information? Obviously she had an affair, she 321 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:26,240 is pregnant and he just made a decision at that point, like I'm 322 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:29,160 going to raise this baby as my own. 323 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:34,800 Not initially, no. He he told me that he actually 324 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:40,080 had left and had got an apartment on his own. 325 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:45,160 But then he realized after a while that my mom would not be 326 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:47,440 able to raise five children on her own. 327 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:51,760 And he went back and he stayed, and he raised me as his own. 328 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:57,320 Wow. My birth certificate father is 329 00:20:57,400 --> 00:20:59,520 nothing short of a St. in my eyes. 330 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:03,680 You were talking about that feeling of being robbed from 331 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:07,320 childhood and and having a relationship with your family. 332 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:12,200 Did you experience anger? Grief. 333 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:13,880 How are you feeling as you process? 334 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:19,200 That I was very angry and angry in in an interesting way, I 335 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:24,600 think because growing up I was always called the spoiled one. 336 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:29,520 Anything along those lines. I heard it and I was angry 337 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:33,040 because it didn't hit me until adulthood. 338 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,360 When I found all of this out, I was like, of course I was 339 00:21:36,360 --> 00:21:39,440 spoiled. They didn't plan on having me. 340 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:42,160 I'm like, yeah, I had the new clothes. 341 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,520 I didn't have the hand me downs because there were no hand me 342 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:49,240 downs to give me. So they considered my Oshkosh 343 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:53,000 clothes and my little Nike shoes as being spoiled. 344 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,480 But I'm like, what else did they have to give me? 345 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,080 Yeah. So I was angry about the way I 346 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:03,520 was treated growing up, and I was angry about, like I said, 347 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:08,920 just feeling robbed of knowing this extensive family that I 348 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,840 have. How did you feel about the fact 349 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:22,680 that everyone knew except you? I was pissed, if I can say that. 350 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:27,360 I was very angry about that. And the strange thing about it 351 00:22:27,360 --> 00:22:33,000 is that I knew growing up that everybody knew because it was 352 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:36,120 one of those things that they would talk openly about. 353 00:22:36,120 --> 00:22:38,200 But then you walk in the room and I knew what they were 354 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:43,040 talking about and never said it because I didn't want to rock 355 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:46,560 the boat. But the fact that everybody knew 356 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:50,760 and then, you know, pushed back on me for wanting to find out 357 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:53,480 was just, you know, one of those things where I'm like, how do 358 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:55,800 you have the audacity to treat me like that? 359 00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:00,880 It was very angry and, and still somewhat, you know, when I think 360 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:05,800 about it, it's, yeah, there's a lot of audacity to treat me the 361 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:10,040 way that I was when I decided to find that half of my family. 362 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:15,680 Yeah, OK. So you've connected with your 363 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:21,120 biological father's family and he is not open to you, but it 364 00:23:21,120 --> 00:23:26,600 sounds like your brother very open to you as well with some of 365 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,480 the other extended family members open to you as well. 366 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:37,480 Yes, so I had met three first cousins, an aunt and some little 367 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:42,920 first cousins once removed and that was enough at the time. 368 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:47,000 And then when my brother kind of was open to me and started to 369 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:51,600 get to know me and my son and my husband, it turned into this 370 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:55,480 thing that was just it was nice. And and I say this to my 371 00:23:55,480 --> 00:24:00,120 siblings often that they really normalized sibling dynamics for 372 00:24:00,120 --> 00:24:04,800 me because I've never had that. I had to wait until I was in my 373 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:11,320 40s before I had it, or late 30s, but it's just been wild. 374 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:17,960 So he was open and I have had a relationship with him since 375 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:25,600 2016, oddly enough. Yeah, oddly enough, I got an 376 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:30,160 e-mail, a Facebook message from the junior who I had initially 377 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,440 connected with. I got a message from him last 378 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:37,920 summer telling me that he was getting rid of his Facebook and 379 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:42,680 wanted to extend the olive branch if I wanted to talk and 380 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:46,040 sent me his phone number. And prior to this, like after he 381 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,880 had removed himself from the message between his mom and 382 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:54,880 himself and me, I had sent him a message apologizing and saying, 383 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,240 you know, I know that completely blindsided you. 384 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:01,480 That was not my intention. And it's not my intention to 385 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,960 disrupt anybody's family. But just know that my door is 386 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:09,760 always open to you. So Fast forward and I get this 387 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,880 message last summer. Of course the first thing I do 388 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,040 is send him a text message and tell him of course I want to 389 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:19,000 talk. We did the following week. 390 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:24,280 We just kind of Facetimed and came away from it also feeling 391 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:28,280 angry that he had been robbed of knowing his sister. 392 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:32,600 He, he and my other brother are funny because they're probably 393 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,480 the closest and they talk about how they kind of twin off of 394 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:37,920 each other or they just know what the other one's going to 395 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:41,560 say. And both he and the the first 396 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:45,640 brother that I met said the same thing about meeting me, that we 397 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:50,200 just connect again, so many things in common, just the 398 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:54,560 similar quirks. And he also told me that when I 399 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:58,520 initially reached out to him on Facebook, he was waiting for a 400 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,400 heart transplant. So he had been pretty sick. 401 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:08,480 And his mom's reaction in his eyes, was probably more about 402 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,480 that and everything else that was going on in the timing. 403 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:16,600 That makes sense, yeah. Yeah, because after I connected 404 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:22,040 with Brother Y, he told me that, you know, Brother X was in the 405 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:26,760 hospital having a transplant. And yeah, it was just, it was a 406 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:28,520 lot. And I was like, you know, I 407 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:29,920 understand it. I do. 408 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:34,240 And I don't fault anybody for their reactions because there's 409 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:38,000 no guidebook, there's no instruction manual for this. 410 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:44,080 So I just tried to approach it as very open minded, 411 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:46,240 understanding of their situation. 412 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:52,640 I finally met that brother in person in May of this year, so I 413 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,000 connected. That's two brothers, one I've 414 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,160 known for a while, the other one I connected with in May, and the 415 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,240 very next day. And we're all big Star Wars 416 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,240 geeks. So we got together for dinner on 417 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,400 May the Fourth, and it was a thing. 418 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:14,520 So the very next day I went to breakfast with Brother Y and my 419 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:19,520 father, my biological father. So he came around, he did. 420 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:22,640 What was that like being with him in person? 421 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:29,480 I was nervous, but I wasn't as nervous as I anticipated being. 422 00:27:30,120 --> 00:27:35,280 Prior to meeting him, I had put together a photo book and kind 423 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,680 of titled it, you know, some things you might have missed. 424 00:27:38,120 --> 00:27:42,560 And it was, you know, me from like birth to now, my family and 425 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:47,400 all of that. And from what I had heard about 426 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:52,280 my biological father was that he is like, now he is the patriarch 427 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:56,800 of the family and is very much like, doesn't say a lot, doesn't 428 00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,760 really show a lot of emotion. So I'd given him that. 429 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,480 And it was funny because he and my brother got to the restaurant 430 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:06,240 1st. And when I walked in, he stood 431 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,560 up to shake my hand. I said, I'm not shaking your 432 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,800 hand. And I gave him a hug, and he 433 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:16,000 started crying. So I gave him the photo book, 434 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:20,360 and he just looked at it and was studying the pictures and 435 00:28:20,360 --> 00:28:22,480 looking from the pictures back at me. 436 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:25,960 And it was asking, you know, the pictures from when I was very 437 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:27,160 young. He's like, this is you. 438 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,880 And I said, yeah. And just tears streamed down his 439 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,960 face through the entire time. And he told me, you know, I wish 440 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:35,720 that I had known about you sooner. 441 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,760 And I said, yeah, me too, but we're here now. 442 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:44,640 Did he give you any back story? I mean, I know you know, 443 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,080 initially he told you. Well, first he acknowledged it, 444 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:50,400 Then he said I never knew your mom. 445 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:56,720 Now he's saying I I wish I knew. Did he come forward and share 446 00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:00,000 how he met your mom? And did he have any suspicions 447 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,960 about you or anything? He told me. 448 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,920 Where he met my mom. And it was my mom was working at 449 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:10,680 just some little convenience store, which I did not know. 450 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:15,120 So when he told me the name of it, I asked my birth certificate 451 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:16,520 father. I was like, hey, did mom ever 452 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:18,080 work at this place? And he's like, oh, yeah. 453 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:22,520 I was like, OK, So I knew, like, that I'm like, this is the right 454 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,600 person. He said they were together 455 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:27,520 briefly. I don't know what that means. 456 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:32,040 And that was about it. He never knew about me until I 457 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:35,360 reached out. And yeah, so in meeting him a 458 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:40,000 few months ago, he said he wished he had known sooner and 459 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,520 said, you know, it's it is what it is. 460 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:47,760 We're here now and we have whatever time remaining to get 461 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:49,680 to know each other and make those memories. 462 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,400 He was open to it. And I've seen him a handful of 463 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,680 times since then. And I've met his wife. 464 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,480 Did she come around? She did, she did. 465 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,440 It was interesting. The day that I met her, I was so 466 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,920 nervous. And when she came in, she came 467 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,320 off kind of cold and I was like, all right, I'm going to take 468 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,680 this as it comes. So she came and sat at the table 469 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,640 with my son and I and just started asking questions. 470 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,880 And then before I knew it, she was telling me, well, I can 471 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,080 teach you how to paint and asking my son if he wants to 472 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:25,560 ride horses and well, I can get you a horse and all of that. 473 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:27,880 So I ended up seeing them two days in a row. 474 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:33,560 And the second day she talked to me one-on-one and said that she 475 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,560 never had a problem with me. She, she put it on my, my 476 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:41,280 biological father and the fact that he drinks and said that he 477 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,800 didn't remember my mom, which he told me he did. 478 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:46,480 So I just kind of took it as it came. 479 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:51,640 And she said we were waiting for your brother's heart transplant 480 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,680 and there was a lot going on. And I said, I understand that. 481 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:59,920 And I have never had any animosity towards you because, 482 00:30:59,920 --> 00:31:02,040 again, there's no instruction manual for this. 483 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,800 And when she said that to me, though, I started crying. 484 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:09,280 So she grabbed my hands and she hugged me and she said we're OK. 485 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,560 And that was all I needed. Yeah, well, what did that do for 486 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:18,480 you? It made everything, I guess, 487 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:22,800 better because from where I was, as much as I tried to approach 488 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:26,200 it from that open mind, there was a part of me that was like, 489 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,200 she's the reason that I don't know them. 490 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:35,120 So hearing that from her kind of, it was a sort of apology 491 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:36,600 that I never thought I would get. 492 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,160 Yeah. So it made it a lot easier. 493 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:45,800 My birth certificate father passed away in January of 2023. 494 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:50,920 He was diagnosed in July of 2022 with two rare forms of cancer. 495 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:59,600 And the reason I say this is that being the non biological 496 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:03,640 child, I was this person. I took him to every treatment, I 497 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:05,480 took him to every doctor's appointment. 498 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:19,080 And since then, yeah, we had the funeral in January. 499 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:25,240 And the one thing that was said to me, the day of his funeral, 500 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,320 the only thing I asked for was his veteran's flag. 501 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:33,480 And the day of the funeral, they presented it to my brother. 502 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,240 And I was OK with that. I said, all right, that's fine. 503 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:39,400 But afterwards, like, I would like to have it. 504 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:40,880 That's the only thing I asked for. 505 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,480 My siblings got to the Funeral Home before my husband and I did 506 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:47,360 because we had to pay for the luncheon. 507 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,360 So of course they got there and they took everything. 508 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,920 So afterwards I reached out and said OK, so who took dad's flag? 509 00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:02,640 And my brother told me that he did because he was our dad's 510 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:07,240 namesake and he felt that it should go to a biological child. 511 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,440 And that was the last time I talked to any of my older 512 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:17,680 siblings because that to me told me how they felt. 513 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:21,480 And they were all on the same text thread and none of them 514 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:25,160 stepped up. So I said OK awesome we are 515 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,360 done. And I have not spoken to them in 516 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:32,120 a year and a half. So he passed away, like I said, 517 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:37,040 January 2023. And all of this with meeting my 518 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:40,040 second and my third brother. I did meet my other brother as 519 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:44,000 well, so I met him in there too, all in the month of May. 520 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,960 It all came after my dad had passed. 521 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:52,960 And that was something I did struggle with because I felt a 522 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:57,840 tremendous amount of guilt for getting to know my biological 523 00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:02,440 father. And a good friend told me that I 524 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,840 shouldn't feel guilty because he would have wanted that for me. 525 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:11,320 And that helped. And then I talked to my brother 526 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:16,639 why and told him the same thing. I said, I think that the timing 527 00:34:16,639 --> 00:34:22,159 of this, if it had been a year prior or two years prior, I 528 00:34:22,159 --> 00:34:24,159 wouldn't have been in the space to be able to do it. 529 00:34:25,199 --> 00:34:31,080 But because my dad was gone, I did. 530 00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:32,719 And I did tell him that I had that guilt. 531 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,560 And he said he would have wanted this for you. 532 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,639 And I said you're right, he would have because I don't fit 533 00:34:38,639 --> 00:34:43,320 in on my maternal side. So finding a place where I do, 534 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:45,480 he would have wanted. Yeah. 535 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:47,760 So. Wow, that. 536 00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:51,880 Helped. Yeah, I'm really sorry for the 537 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:56,920 estrangement with your siblings. How have you been navigating 538 00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:01,040 that emotionally? It was hard because not only had 539 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:05,040 I just lost my dad, but I lost my three older siblings and 540 00:35:05,240 --> 00:35:10,480 nieces and nephews and aunts. And I was like OK Well I ended 541 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:15,600 up finding a therapist because I was having severe PTSD dreams 542 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:20,840 for months every night where I was waking up just sobbing and 543 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:25,440 they were about my siblings and about my dad and him being sick. 544 00:35:26,240 --> 00:35:30,640 So I started going to therapy again which helped so much. 545 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:34,360 And it was crazy because the first time I met with my 546 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:38,440 therapist that night, I didn't have a single dream where I woke 547 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,880 up crying. I was like, yay, therapy. 548 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:45,120 And I say that as a therapist myself where, you know, I work 549 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:48,520 with, you know, people with extensive trauma. 550 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,120 And here I am just struggling on my own. 551 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:59,080 But, yeah, So that it has been hard, But I think the longer it 552 00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:03,280 goes on, the easier it gets. And the more connections I have 553 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:08,280 with my paternal side, it kind of eases some of that pain of 554 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,520 being estranged from them. There are times when I feel 555 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,360 like, oh, I should really reach out to the sibling. 556 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,960 But then I think about it and I remember the things that were 557 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:22,040 said and done, and I'm not ready. 558 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,920 Totally, totally. It's been a roller coaster. 559 00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:32,400 Are there still any questions that you have around your 560 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:37,600 paternity or your DNA surprise? I am still waiting to sit down 561 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:41,520 with my biological father and talk just kind of one-on-one 562 00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:45,400 because I want to know how he knew my mom and I want to know 563 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,240 what that relationship was. If it was a relationship, I 564 00:36:48,240 --> 00:36:50,960 don't even know. But it's not something that I 565 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:54,280 can do with my, I guess, stepmom there. 566 00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,120 So it's one of those things that that I have questions around 567 00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:02,680 that and also curiosity to know if he ever did know about me 568 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:06,960 prior to me reaching out because knowing that my dad worked with 569 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:12,760 my paternal uncle and going to company picnics where he was 570 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:16,760 with cousins of mine, like he had to have known. 571 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:21,160 So I have a feeling that, you know, he would have told his 572 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:24,400 brother because they were very close, but I don't know. 573 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:29,320 It's interesting in this community how we end up having 574 00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:33,440 to like balance which questions we ask and you know, what's like 575 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:36,320 the most important information, like medical information and 576 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:38,680 those kinds of things. And then some of the other 577 00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:44,000 things which are important, I think to having a sense of 578 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,440 identity and like understanding where you fit in the world and 579 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:52,120 everything, but you also don't want to risk relationships. 580 00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:54,520 And so it's all about that balance. 581 00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:59,040 What is kind of next for you and and what do you hope for with 582 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,400 your relationship with your bio family? 583 00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:03,920 What do I hope for? That's a great question. 584 00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:08,560 I think just more experiences with them because we, we've, 585 00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:10,440 we've celebrated Memorial Day together. 586 00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:13,520 We had, you know, a cookout at my brother's house and then at 587 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:17,040 my Thea's house. And we celebrated my oldest 588 00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,680 paternal brother, who happens to be a year older than me. 589 00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:23,560 We celebrated his son's birthday just a few weeks ago. 590 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,440 So just kind of more of that because we do live so close to 591 00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:30,440 each other. And I will say that my my one 592 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:33,560 brother has been very good about just seeing us once a month. 593 00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,560 We always go out to dinner and you know, things like that. 594 00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:40,800 It's like nothing big, but just those building those memories 595 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,880 with those people that I didn't have the chance to do. 596 00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,520 Absolutely. And for my son to know them, 597 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:51,400 yeah, my son is actually turning 16 on Labor Day, which is coming 598 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:53,880 up, and they are invited to our house. 599 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,320 And that'll be the first time that we will get to celebrate 600 00:38:56,320 --> 00:39:01,280 with them, so building more of those memories together. 601 00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:06,320 That's really special. You mentioned therapy and that 602 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:10,520 you're a therapist yourself, so that was obviously one tool in 603 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:12,720 your toolbox for navigating this. 604 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:18,560 What other support systems have, or what is your support system 605 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:22,440 as you navigate this, especially in light of the fact that you 606 00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:26,240 don't speak to your raised siblings anymore? 607 00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:31,920 My support system has been, like I said, a therapist. 608 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:37,560 My husband is phenomenal and has been there through all of this 609 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:41,240 with me. I have great friends who I often 610 00:39:41,240 --> 00:39:45,040 refer to them as family because they are more family to me than 611 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:50,080 some other people, and they have really helped me. 612 00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:53,080 When I feel like I'm kind of spiraling about things, they 613 00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:56,600 kind of reign me in and, and again, because I am a therapist, 614 00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:00,240 I have friends and coworkers who I can bounce things off of and 615 00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:05,200 everybody is very supportive and just really helps me to kind of 616 00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:07,280 see things from other perspectives. 617 00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:11,200 And then I will say also the DNA groups on Facebook and the 618 00:40:11,240 --> 00:40:15,200 podcasts like yours that I, I listen to and I know like. 619 00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:19,000 Everybody's story is unique to them, but there are so many 620 00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:21,760 overlaps. And one of my one of my things 621 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:25,240 that I use in therapy with my clients is that the situations 622 00:40:25,240 --> 00:40:27,840 don't have to be the same for the feelings to be the same. 623 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:33,280 So even though somebody might be adopted or an IVF individual, 624 00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:35,200 like those feelings are the same. 625 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:38,080 So hearing all of the podcasts and other people's stories 626 00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:42,760 really has helped me to feel less alone in all of this. 627 00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:46,720 Yeah, there's tons of intersection in our community. 628 00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:52,040 Do you see people who have had DNA surprises or NP? 629 00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:54,200 ES Yes, I do. I do. 630 00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:58,520 Those are actually my ideal clients just because it's 631 00:40:58,520 --> 00:40:59,840 familiar. And it's funny because as 632 00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:02,800 therapists, sometimes you kind of go one, one of two ways. 633 00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:07,200 Either we want clients who we can really relate to, or we say, 634 00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:09,840 Nope, I've got enough of that on my own and I'm going a 635 00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:13,240 completely different direction. But yes, I do work with people 636 00:41:13,240 --> 00:41:18,040 who are adoptees, who are MP, ES, you know, unknown parentage, 637 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,080 all of that. Absolutely. 638 00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:24,680 And did you decide to have that focus as a result of your own 639 00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:28,960 experience? Yeah, I, I not only my 640 00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:34,360 experience, but I've had so many MPs in my family, you know, or 641 00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:37,560 people with different fathers than those who raised them. 642 00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:43,000 It it's just one of those things that like I understand it and 643 00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:47,360 know the amount of trauma that can cause and you know those, 644 00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:51,360 that's my niche trauma and people with unknown parentage or 645 00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:53,880 those DNA surprises. That is what I love. 646 00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:56,400 Would you like to share your information? 647 00:41:56,400 --> 00:42:00,040 I'd be happy to put like a link to your website or your contact 648 00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:03,520 information in the show notes for anybody who might be in your 649 00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:04,200 state. Yeah. 650 00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:08,480 So I'm in Illinois and I work out of Batavia, IL at Creating 651 00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:11,680 Space Therapy and I can give you that information. 652 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:16,120 We are a trauma focused practice so all of us specialize in 653 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:19,680 trauma and grief. I get emails from people who are 654 00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:23,760 looking for resources and I always love to have another 655 00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:26,840 person to share another resource to plan to. 656 00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:29,880 But I always tell people trauma and. 657 00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:32,080 Grief. They go hand in hand. 658 00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:37,960 They do, and until NP, ES, and DNA surprises become more well 659 00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:43,600 known, just generally I tell people to start with trauma and 660 00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:48,680 grief therapists because not every state has an NPE therapist 661 00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:50,800 that's easy to find. So right. 662 00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:53,520 Yeah, that's great. I will put your information in 663 00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:54,600 the show note. Yeah. 664 00:42:54,640 --> 00:43:00,600 And I will say, you know, EMDR is wonderful for trauma and that 665 00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:05,640 is something I use daily with clients and even on myself. 666 00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:07,360 And when I'm feeling dysregulated, I guess that's 667 00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,520 another resource that I have, is that ability to tap into the 668 00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:13,920 EMDR, to desensitize those triggers. 669 00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:17,120 And you know, if that's something that you have access 670 00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:22,120 to, you know, anybody in their state, a good trauma therapist, 671 00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:24,000 grief therapist who's EMDR trained. 672 00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:27,000 That's wonderful. That's wonderful. 673 00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:30,560 For anyone in Illinois who may be looking for someone. 674 00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:34,720 We I will be sure to put Shannon's contact information in 675 00:43:34,720 --> 00:43:39,440 the show notes. What advice do you have for a 676 00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:45,280 parent who is keeping adna surprise from their child? 677 00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:50,880 My advice would be to tell them because it's not their secret to 678 00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:55,040 keep you are keeping somebody's identity from them. 679 00:43:55,920 --> 00:44:00,160 And when people like like us find out, it is a huge, you 680 00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:04,280 know, shock to our identity. And I've worked with people who 681 00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:08,040 struggle with that finding out. And then who am I anymore? 682 00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:13,440 So I often go back to the it's not your secret to keep from 683 00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:14,880 them. That is their history. 684 00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:17,160 It really only does more damage by keeping it. 685 00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:21,600 What advice do you have for someone who just uncovered Adna 686 00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:25,840 Surprise? Who For somebody who just 687 00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:32,080 uncovered that, I think one of the big things is to lean into 688 00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:37,120 your support, whether that's, you know, friends, therapist, 689 00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:43,240 whoever that is to you, and to not be impulsive and reacting. 690 00:44:43,240 --> 00:44:48,640 Take the time to think about it because as much as it is a shock 691 00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:53,560 to you, it might be a shock to other people, meaning biological 692 00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:56,920 parents who might not know. And just kind of going from my 693 00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:59,880 own experience, you don't know what other people are going 694 00:44:59,880 --> 00:45:04,080 through when you reach out. So just being cautious about 695 00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:08,400 that, but also compassionate towards other people and just 696 00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:11,680 kind of approaching it from that angle of empathy for other 697 00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:15,080 people and treading lightly. That's a really good point. 698 00:45:15,240 --> 00:45:18,640 Like you said, your brother was dealing with facing a heart 699 00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:23,000 transplant and other things, and everybody has their things that 700 00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:26,160 they're dealing with. Shannon, thank you so much for 701 00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:29,160 joining me today and sharing your story. 702 00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:33,800 I'm sorry for the the loss of relationship with your with your 703 00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:38,000 raised siblings, but so happy for you that you are embarking 704 00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:41,440 on a new journey with your biological family that you 705 00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:44,160 found. And also just thank you for 706 00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:48,080 turning this experience into something that helps other 707 00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:50,480 people. I'm sure that there are folks 708 00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:54,360 listening right now who are looking in the show notes trying 709 00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:57,800 to find your information because it is so overwhelming as you 710 00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:00,760 know when this first happened. So thank you for being a 711 00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:04,000 resource for our community and I wish you the best. 712 00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:05,520 Thank you so much. I appreciate you. 713 00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:08,880 Thanks again to Shannon for sharing her story. 714 00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:11,480 If you'd like to learn more about Shannon's therapy 715 00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:15,560 practice, visit creatingspacetherapy.com. 716 00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:19,680 If you have a DNA surprise that you'd like to share, submit your 717 00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:24,600 story to dnasurprises.com. And remember, for early access 718 00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:30,480 to ad free episodes, join me over on patreon@patreon.com/DNA 719 00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:32,640 Surprises. Until next time. 720 00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:39,600 This episode of DNA Surprises was hosted, produced and edited 721 00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:44,120 by me Alexis Ourselt. It was mixed and mastered by 722 00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:47,360 Josh Ourselt of Siren Recording Studios.