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I was in the front page of the 
newspaper. 

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I was on radio stations. 
They put out articles and 

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newspapers saying if you are the
parents of this abandoned boy, 

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happened on this such and such 
date, your parental rights are 

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going to be dismissed on this 
day if you don't show up. 

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So I got all the court records 
of the day. 

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I became a ward of the state 
because no parent showed up. 

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Parents, John Doe, Baby Doe or 
all that. 

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00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:28,960
So now I've got all the 
paperwork. 

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Got it. 
It's only paperwork. 

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But everything from the night I 
was found up until I was adopted

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out of foster care. 
And then I got that information 

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from my adoptive parents. 
What I still don't have is my 

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birth date. 
Like when was I actually born? 

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All that information. 
Welcome to DNA Surprises, a 

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00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:55,680
podcast that delves into the 
world of unexpected DNA 

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00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:59,320
discoveries. 
I'm your host, Alexis ourselves.

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In July 2021, my life took a 
surprising turn when I found out

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that I'm an NPE, a person who 
has experienced a non paternal 

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event. 
In other words, my biological 

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father isn't who I thought he 
was. 

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Join me as we explore the 
stories of NP, ES, adoptees, and

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00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:24,080
donor conceived people and their
families. 

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Get ready to unravel the 
astonishing journeys that begin 

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with a simple DNA test. 
This is DNA surprises. 

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DNA Surprises often lead to 
answers. 

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The truth about parentage, 
insights into family dynamics, 

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clarity about the past. 
Still, as I often say, they also

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leave us with questions, 
Questions that may never be 

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answered. 
What if something as simple as a

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birth date was unknown to you, 
possibly forever? 

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Welcome to the Season 12 finale 
of DNA Surprises. 

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In this week's episode, I'm 
joined by James, a foundling 

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adoptee who was abandoned at a 
church in the 1970s. 

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James always knew he was 
adopted, although he didn't 

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learn the circumstances until he
was an adult. 

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Then, with the combined power of
research, DNA testing, and a 

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little bit of luck, he learned 
much more about where and who he

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came from. 
Thank you for sharing your 

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story, James. 
James, 47, just last week and 

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from Minnesota. 
Happy birthday. 

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00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:44,880
Thank you. 
I'm a foundling. 

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I was abandoned at a church at 
about a so I say my birthday was

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00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:53,000
last week. 
There is no definite answer. 

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00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:57,760
It could be this week. 
It was approximately 10 days old

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00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:01,240
when they found me at a church. 
For people who don't know what a

47
00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:08,120
foundling is, that is when a 
baby is relinquished or I don't 

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know what word you would use. 
You would use abandoned, OK. 

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00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:15,120
You would use that word, OK when
a baby is abandoned at a 

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hospital, church or anywhere 
really, and found and then put 

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00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:23,360
up for adoption. 
So you were adopted. 

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00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,680
And tell me more about that. 
Yep, so I've always knew I was 

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00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:30,160
adopted. 
My parents always told me you're

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adopted. 
I have a older brother that's 

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adopted as well. 
My parents were told that they 

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weren't able to have kids, so 
they adopted my older brother. 

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They adopted me and then 
biologically had a younger 

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brother by mistake. 
Kind of like they weren't 

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supposed to have kids but they 
were able to have one. 

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00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:50,800
So I'm the middle child. 
But yeah, I've always told I was

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00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:54,680
adopted, even to the point where
in 3rd grade I remember telling 

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my classmates I wasn't born, I 
was adopted. 

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So I didn't quite understood 
what adoption meant, but. 

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00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:04,760
So it's always a part of your 
story. 

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00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:07,120
Yep, as far as I as long as I 
can remember. 

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Did you understand that you had 
biological parents or birth 

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00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:15,720
parents somewhere out in the 
world, or when did that become 

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00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:18,079
clear to you? 
That probably came, you know, 

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00:04:18,079 --> 00:04:22,360
later, probably, you know, ten, 
11-12 years old when you 

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00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:26,040
understand what adoption is. 
My parents always told me they 

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00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:28,600
would help search for my 
parents. 

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They said you're adopted, and if
you ever want to find your birth

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00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,400
parents, we'll help you. 
But they always said there's a 

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00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:40,600
very slim chance of being able 
to find them because I was not 

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00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:42,880
told I was abandoned until I 
turned 18. 

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They didn't give any information
about, you know, how it was. 

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00:04:46,280 --> 00:04:51,880
It's just that I was adopted. 
And so when I turned 18, that's 

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when they told me. 
They sat me down and told me the

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story they were told by the 
adoption agency to keep it hush 

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hush until I turn 18, just in 
case the wrong people hear it. 

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00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:08,080
And I don't know if there is 
even a chance for biological 

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00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:11,640
family to come back and claim 
me, but just in case the wrong 

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00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:15,040
person heard the story and, you 
know, go from there. 

84
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What was it like when you found 
out then that you were a 

85
00:05:19,840 --> 00:05:22,840
foundling and the circumstances 
around your adoption? 

86
00:05:22,840 --> 00:05:25,600
It didn't really, you know, 
affect me. 

87
00:05:25,840 --> 00:05:27,560
Like I said, they're, they were 
my parents. 

88
00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:29,280
They got me when I was 8 months 
old. 

89
00:05:29,280 --> 00:05:32,640
So I was in foster care for 
eight months prior to that. 

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00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:35,600
I just kind of put in the back 
of my mind at that time, it 

91
00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:41,640
didn't really affect me one way 
or the other until later on life

92
00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:44,800
when got married before we had 
kids. 

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00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:50,600
I should really, like, maybe see
if there's a story out there or 

94
00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,560
anything, because my mom did 
tell me that they seen an 

95
00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:57,000
article in their newspaper about
this child being abandoned at 

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00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:02,960
the church down in Minneapolis. 
And she had contacted their 

97
00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:06,080
social worker and said, hey, 
what are the chances we could 

98
00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:07,400
get that baby? 
Because they were already in the

99
00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:09,600
process of adopting the second 
child. 

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00:06:10,280 --> 00:06:12,840
And they said, well, we'll see 
what we can do and we'll go from

101
00:06:12,840 --> 00:06:15,480
there. 
And they were able to eventually

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00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:17,920
get me. 
I go, well, OK, do you remember 

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00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:22,480
what newspaper it was? 
And she thought said it was her 

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00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:25,520
home paper. 
But when I search, I could never

105
00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:28,120
find it. 
I knew I was born in August in 

106
00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:31,480
1978. 
And I knew I came from, I was 

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00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:33,440
born in Minneapolis. 
And that's where the church I 

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00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,920
was I was left at. 
So I just asked our local 

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00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:41,840
library for the micro fish of 
the Star Tribune in the Saint 

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00:06:41,840 --> 00:06:45,480
Paul Pioneer Press. 
And I just started going through

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00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:50,320
all of August and all of 
September and September 1st 

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00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:52,960
article, front page of the Star 
Tribune. 

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00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:54,760
There I am on the front page 
article. 

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00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:57,200
Wow, so you are a front page 
story. 

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00:06:57,280 --> 00:07:00,680
Yep, no picture, but it's right 
underneath is the state fair's 

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00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:01,960
happening in Minnesota at that 
time. 

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00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:05,440
Right below the State Fair 
article it says baby infant 

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00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,400
abandoned at church, left on 
doorstep. 

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00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:12,560
How did that feel to see that in
real prints like black and 

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00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:14,880
white? 
So that was, it was like, OK, I 

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00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:16,360
made the front page of the 
newspaper. 

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00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,800
Not how I thought I would make 
it, but it was kind of cool. 

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00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:25,480
And it was a part of my history 
that I didn't have from like the

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00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:29,640
start of my life that I could 
have a copy of. 

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00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:33,920
So I read the article and I got 
a couple other copies of it from

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00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:37,440
different newspapers around 
Minnesota and it's said in there

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00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:40,880
that, you know, the child was 
left on August 30th. 

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00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:43,880
So it's coming up on 47 years 
this Saturday. 

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00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:48,680
They think it was about a 10 
day, 14 day old baby left in the

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00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:52,560
doorway. 
I was left that night with a 

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00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:58,120
bottle, some diapers and a bag 
of clothes, kind of like a 

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00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:01,720
onesie and stuff like that. 
And the bag was like a 

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00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:03,880
department store bag from 
Maryland. 

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00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:08,240
So we'll circle back to that 
later in the story, but just 

135
00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:11,920
keep that on the on the mind. 
So then I reached out to 

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00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:15,600
Lutheran Social services cuz 
that's who did my adoption with 

137
00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,360
my parents. 
And I had asked, hey, do you 

138
00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:23,040
have any paperwork or any kind 
of thing involving my file? 

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00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:29,280
So this was back in 2006. 
And they sent me back a baptism 

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00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:33,120
certificate that I was baptized 
that night at the church and 

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00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:38,240
kind of like a day-to-day what I
did with the foster care I was 

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00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:41,320
in for eight months. 
But then it also had a like a 

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00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:45,520
little write up from that night 
and I was taken to the local 

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00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:47,680
hospital. 
It says in the notes that the 

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00:08:47,680 --> 00:08:50,200
doctor said, well, this child 
needs a birth certificate. 

146
00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,800
And by looking at the lines on 
his feet and the weight and 

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00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:55,840
everything, I'm going to 
approximate it. 

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00:08:56,160 --> 00:09:00,480
August 21st the birth 
certificate was issued for 

149
00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:03,640
August 20th 1978, so that's the 
birth date I go by. 

150
00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:09,080
But when I found out back then 
that there is no definite date, 

151
00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:11,680
I call it a birthday week, so I 
celebrate all week. 

152
00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:15,600
Well, that's not too bad, is it?
Giving a week. 

153
00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:20,480
OK, All right, so this really 
starts your journey in 

154
00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:25,280
uncovering where you came from. 
What happens next? 

155
00:09:25,680 --> 00:09:28,320
So that's in 2006. 
Got the paperwork from Luton's 

156
00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:31,200
social services and it was very 
minimal. 

157
00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:35,000
Like it had the baptism 
certificate and just some write 

158
00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:37,200
up. 
So the baptism certificate was 

159
00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:40,800
actually signed by the pastor 
there. 

160
00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:46,280
So I didn't do much with it in 
2008 and I just put it on the 

161
00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:48,240
back burner. 
It's like, OK, that's part of my

162
00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:53,040
history, let's just go with it. 
Well then and we're going to 

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00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:56,200
Fast forward to 2019 because 
that's when it kick starts into 

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00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:59,680
full gear. 
I've got two kids and we kind of

165
00:09:59,680 --> 00:10:04,200
like we should know some medical
history and stuff like that. 

166
00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:08,680
So me know in my past, it's 
like, OK, I have no medical 

167
00:10:08,680 --> 00:10:10,160
history. 
I've told my doctors, I've done 

168
00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:12,000
my health checkup. 
They goes, hey, what's your 

169
00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:13,760
medical history? 
Well, it starts with me. 

170
00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:18,080
I have nothing. 
And then 2019 I reached out to 

171
00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:21,200
that pastor. 
I found him on Facebook, on an 

172
00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:26,440
e-mail, emailed him and he 
replied back saying he was kind 

173
00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:29,880
of curious. 
He's like, I, I want some more 

174
00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:32,920
in depth information, kind of 
like fishing, like who is this 

175
00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:34,720
really? 
Are you really the child? 

176
00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:38,080
So I told him everything. 
He goes, yeah, you are the kid. 

177
00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:40,960
I remember that. 
I think it was probably late 

178
00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:45,080
2018. 
I took a 23 andme DNA test, the 

179
00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:47,000
one with the medical history 
part of it. 

180
00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:50,800
Took the test, checked my 
medical history, nothing that 

181
00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:55,720
stuck out real much. 
And then on where it gave the 

182
00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:59,960
matches, I didn't have anyone 
closer than a second cousin 

183
00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:03,400
three times removed or not. 
Nothing in particular. 

184
00:11:04,560 --> 00:11:07,560
So then someone suggested you 
should do Ancestry. 

185
00:11:07,560 --> 00:11:11,560
So I did that in 2019 because 
they have a bigger database of 

186
00:11:11,560 --> 00:11:15,680
people. 
Again, the closest person was 

187
00:11:15,680 --> 00:11:20,080
like a second cousin, probably a
legit second cousin, nothing 

188
00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:23,080
removed. 
But so I reached out to that 

189
00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:27,200
person and through Ancestry and 
heard nothing back. 

190
00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,600
So then I looked down through 
some other matches. 

191
00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:34,160
So then I jumped from the second
cousin down to her thirds and 

192
00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:40,520
fourths, messaged a couple and I
got a reply on like a third 

193
00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:44,480
cousin that says, well, I can 
see that we match on her 

194
00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:46,920
father's side. 
She goes, you come from here, 

195
00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:51,040
but we're from a different 
state, too distant to see, you 

196
00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:54,520
know, exactly who my father 
would have been and stuff like 

197
00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:57,840
that. 
So that was in 2019. 

198
00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:00,760
You know, I didn't get any 
headway there. 

199
00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:08,560
So then I more or less again put
it on pause till 2023. 

200
00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:13,880
How are you managing with these 
pauses? 

201
00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:17,360
Because sometimes people are 
like full speed ahead. 

202
00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,920
They want to find all of the 
information they can and and 

203
00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:22,840
they will not rest until they 
do. 

204
00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:26,360
And then I talked to other 
people who sometimes there are 

205
00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:32,960
510 or more years between, you 
know, a revelation or between 

206
00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:36,440
like a kind of a Sprint to try 
to get as much information as 

207
00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:39,000
they can. 
Are you thinking about it a lot 

208
00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:42,480
during this time or is it just 
something that kind of comes and

209
00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:44,960
goes? 
Well, so it kind of comes and 

210
00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:48,360
goes, but then COVID happened in
2020, so I had a bunch of time 

211
00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:53,280
to sit around and I kind of 
dabbled back into the Ancestry 

212
00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:55,640
side of it because I had more 
matches on Ancestry. 

213
00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:58,000
So I started putting piercing 
together. 

214
00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:02,520
We know you can call it a family
tree, but I'd have to start way 

215
00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:05,320
up on great, great, great 
grandparents. 

216
00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:09,160
And I didn't know where I was 
even going on that. 

217
00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:13,800
So I'd put it on pause, come 
back, dabble here and there, but

218
00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:16,480
nothing really. 
I've got busy with life again 

219
00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:20,880
and stuff like that with kids 
being active until 2023. 

220
00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:24,400
It's like, OK, I want to sit 
down and go through these names 

221
00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:28,200
and see what I can find. 
Cuz then I started listening to 

222
00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:33,320
other podcasts about, hey, I've 
been finding relatives through 

223
00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:40,800
this way. 
So in 2023, this is probably 

224
00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:47,480
February, I have seen these two 
names pop up on the ancestry 

225
00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:51,840
side like multiple times. 
Oh, there's a third cousin with 

226
00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:54,280
it. 
There's another third cousin and

227
00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:58,360
they were both, they turned out 
to be the father's side and the 

228
00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:01,120
mother's side. 
It's like those those two names 

229
00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:03,880
kept appearing. 
I said, OK, well, I'm going to 

230
00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:07,520
see if I can Google all this 
information. 

231
00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:12,840
So did the father's side. 
And that's couldn't, you know, 

232
00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:16,320
find much information. 
There's it's not a common name, 

233
00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:17,720
but it's not an uncommon name 
either. 

234
00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:23,480
The mother's name was not a very
common name up around where 

235
00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:25,640
we're from. 
It's like, that's an interesting

236
00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:28,520
name. 
So I Googled it. 

237
00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:33,600
Actually I Facebooked it, the 
two names put together and this 

238
00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:39,280
one account came up. 
It was a lady and heard the last

239
00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:41,000
name. 
She went by these both last 

240
00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:42,600
names like so they're like 
hyphenated. 

241
00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:44,840
I said, well, that's 
interesting. 

242
00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:48,720
She's got both last names that 
are in my family tree. 

243
00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:52,640
So I reached out to her. 
I sent her a Facebook message. 

244
00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:55,440
You know how Facebook works 
where if you're not friends it 

245
00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:59,400
goes into a spam folder. 
So I just messaged her on there.

246
00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:03,600
I said hey, I have no idea who 
you are, I'm adopted, but you 

247
00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:07,480
happen to have both last names 
that are in my family tree. 

248
00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:10,560
I would just love to talk to you
or message you and see you know 

249
00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,200
what do you know? 
No reply. 

250
00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:17,920
So then I googled that name and 
found AI hope was an e-mail 

251
00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:22,800
address. 
So I emailed this lady, gave her

252
00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,120
the same spiel. 
Hey, you have the same last 

253
00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:27,320
names and that are my family 
tree. 

254
00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:31,680
You know anything about this? 
So that was in February 2023. 

255
00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:38,000
It went about a month and then I
got a reply from this lady and 

256
00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:43,080
it was how the reply was. 
Me and my wife looked at like it

257
00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:45,960
looks like lawyer speak. 
Like it wasn't like how you 

258
00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:48,920
would just reply to an e-mail. 
It looked like lawyer speak 

259
00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:54,320
because it said we understand 
that you're looking for some 

260
00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:57,600
ancestry. 
We know that ancestry DNA can 

261
00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:04,880
give answers, but people may not
want to be bothered about this 

262
00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:08,880
or answer questions. 
So please do not reach out to us

263
00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:12,680
again going forward or anyone in
our family. 

264
00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:15,400
And they gave both last names. 
No one in either of these 

265
00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:16,880
families. 
Do not reach out to them going 

266
00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:19,840
forward. 
How did that feel? 

267
00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,240
So I thought OK I hit someone 
close here. 

268
00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,040
I still at that point no idea 
who it was. 

269
00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:29,480
So I said to myself OK you're 
someone close. 

270
00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:33,600
So I'm going to reply back 
assuming that you're someone 

271
00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,160
close to me or know the story or
something. 

272
00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:38,840
So I just reply back hey sorry 
to bother you. 

273
00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:43,000
Going forward, I won't reach out
to anyone that I shouldn't, but 

274
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:46,760
I was just looking for medical 
history because I have nothing. 

275
00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:50,160
And if you have any kind of 
information that would be great.

276
00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:54,520
So then it went about another 
month, so we're back into like 

277
00:16:54,640 --> 00:17:01,840
April with a reply and the reply
was like 3 sentences. 

278
00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,440
We have this in our family, this
in our family, this in our 

279
00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:09,079
family, and that's it. 
There's no greeting, no like 

280
00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:11,520
talk to you like, no like, no 
nothing. 

281
00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:15,240
Just three sentences from a 
hidden e-mail address. 

282
00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:17,599
So yeah, you're close. 
Yep. 

283
00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:21,240
So I started doing more in 
research on that person, 

284
00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:26,200
starting to put together my 
family tree off of her because 

285
00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:28,960
you can find, if they're old 
enough, you can find all 

286
00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:32,440
information on an ancestry with 
birth records, yearbooks, all 

287
00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:36,760
that. 
So I put her together and then 

288
00:17:37,120 --> 00:17:40,080
found, you know, through online 
stuff who her husband at the 

289
00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:45,560
time is put them together. 
He has a other last name that 

290
00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,840
was in my family tree. 
I say, I think I found them. 

291
00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:53,520
So then I reached out to, I just
put a post on ancestry message 

292
00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:58,640
board asking if anyone kind of 
like Adna Angel can help just 

293
00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:02,920
verify my family tree I have. 
So this lady reaches out to me. 

294
00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:05,720
She goes, Yep, she goes, just 
give me your access and I'll 

295
00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:09,360
look through it. 
And within I think 24 hours she 

296
00:18:09,360 --> 00:18:11,240
goes, yes, that's, that's your 
parents. 

297
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,560
And she put together a whole 
family tree for me that went 

298
00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:17,520
back, you know, 3-4 generations.
Wow. 

299
00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:22,840
I can only imagine the different
feelings that you must have had 

300
00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:26,520
in that moment because you've 
identified who these people are,

301
00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:30,240
but also they've expressed that 
they don't want you to contact 

302
00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:34,160
them or their family. 
So what are you thinking at that

303
00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:35,560
point? 
Like what do you want to do with

304
00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:39,360
that information? 
So I it's like, OK, so I got my 

305
00:18:39,360 --> 00:18:42,160
family tree. 
I researched and I guessed it 

306
00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:45,840
correctly who these two people 
are when I had messaged her on 

307
00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:48,920
Facebook, then emailed her and 
then she's kind of said don't go

308
00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:51,480
forward message anyone. 
She blocked me on Facebook. 

309
00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:55,200
So that was another another mark
saying OK, I'm close. 

310
00:18:56,320 --> 00:19:01,520
So with being blocked, I did 
some more research on ancestry 

311
00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:04,520
to say, OK, is there siblings 
related? 

312
00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:06,840
Does she have siblings? 
Does he have siblings? 

313
00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:10,600
So that was in, you know, April 
2023. 

314
00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:16,000
I went through the summer of 
2023 just hardcore Googling, 

315
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:19,960
researching. 
I threw just threw records that 

316
00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:22,920
is public. 
Found out that they got married 

317
00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:26,920
eight months after I was born 
and proceeded to have two more 

318
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:30,720
children and that they're still 
married today and have two sons.

319
00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:33,760
How does that feel? 
How did that feel to read that? 

320
00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:37,760
It's like, OK, well, I can 
understand. 

321
00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:42,600
Well, at that time it's like, 
OK, I was given up why or 

322
00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:46,840
abandoned why or whatever. 
But then it's like I have two 

323
00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:51,400
full siblings out there that I 
didn't know about and I'm 

324
00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:53,520
guessing they had no idea about 
me. 

325
00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:58,560
And you're biological parents 
were together? 

326
00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,480
Yeah, and married. 
Stayed together and got married.

327
00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:05,760
That's not the story that I 
think many people imagine, right

328
00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:10,400
in these kinds of circumstances.
So it's like, OK, we found your 

329
00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:13,320
parents. 
You have two siblings out there.

330
00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:16,960
She's telling you not to reach 
out to anyone. 

331
00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:22,000
So I honored that for a bit. 
It's like, OK, we're complete 

332
00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:26,240
strangers. 
I'm guessing no one knows that I

333
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:28,280
was abandoned at a church in 
your family. 

334
00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:33,760
So I just I won't touch it by 
just I continued research 

335
00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:37,320
through the summer of 2023, 
trying to put together their 

336
00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:40,120
siblings. 
So my aunts and uncles. 

337
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:46,320
So I got this whole family tree 
and found OK, I got a aunt and 

338
00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:48,840
uncle on one side and aunt and 
uncle on the other side. 

339
00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,000
They're still living. 
And then they, you know, they 

340
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:57,520
got kids would be my cousins. 
So 2023 I said, you know what, 

341
00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:00,760
I'll go around her. 
I'm not going to reach out to 

342
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:03,360
the sibling, my full blood 
siblings yet because I don't 

343
00:21:03,360 --> 00:21:08,320
want to disrupt the family 
dynamic, but I just want to know

344
00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:15,720
about if the their siblings know
about anything. 

345
00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:23,040
So what I did was I found that 
my birth father has a sister who

346
00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:27,960
has a couple sons. 
My aunt wasn't active on social 

347
00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,440
media and so can't reach out 
that way. 

348
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:40,080
Well, her son is so August 30th 
of 2023, I'm Facebook messaged 

349
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:45,240
this guy saying Hey, is your 
mother so and so? 

350
00:21:46,120 --> 00:21:49,840
I think she's my aunt. 
These people are my 

351
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:52,880
grandparents. 
I didn't say who I thought my 

352
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,160
parents were. 
I just said, your mother's my 

353
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:57,520
aunt and I think we share 
grandparents. 

354
00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:03,080
So again, no, no idea where this
message is going to go or how 

355
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:06,960
long it will be. 
It was literally like a day and 

356
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:08,320
a half. 
Two days later, I'm heading to 

357
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:11,200
the golf course. 
I get a Ding on my phone and 

358
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,680
it's a message. 
I always get choked up about 

359
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,960
this one. 
But he goes, hey, nice to hear 

360
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,360
from you. 
We need to talk. 

361
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:24,600
Can you call me? 
I always said, what a strange 

362
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:29,320
reply to a stranger, that hey, 
nice to hear from you, We need 

363
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,200
to talk. 
It's like interesting, OK. 

364
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:34,480
Like he was expecting you or 
something. 

365
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:39,440
Exactly. 
So I said, OK, let's I'll call 

366
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:43,520
you on such and such day. 
So it was September 1st actually

367
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:48,320
of 2023. 
He called me and then he goes, 

368
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,280
I've known about you for 11 
years. 

369
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:57,440
He goes, I don't know who you 
were or where you were, but my 

370
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:03,520
mother told me when her husband 
was was dying or died, she goes,

371
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:07,000
hey, if anything happens, you 
have another cousin out there. 

372
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:13,200
It's my brother's son. 
He was put up for adoption, but 

373
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:14,920
that's all the information they 
had. 

374
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,120
So he told me that I said you 
were under the impression I was 

375
00:23:19,120 --> 00:23:21,680
put up for adoption. 
He goes, yeah, I said, well, I 

376
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:26,360
wasn't I was abandoned at the 
church and I got the front page 

377
00:23:26,360 --> 00:23:29,600
of the newspaper to prove it. 
I got papers from the social 

378
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,960
services to prove I was 
abandoned. 

379
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,720
He goes, that's very 
interesting. 

380
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:40,200
So then we we talked for about 
45 minutes to an hour about my 

381
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:41,600
birth father's side of the 
family. 

382
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:46,440
And he goes, well, I'm going to 
talk to my mom and I'll get back

383
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,760
to you here. 
So he went that night. 

384
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:52,320
He couldn't even wait to tell 
her that I had reached out. 

385
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:57,120
So he just drove down the block 
to his mom and said, hey, James 

386
00:23:57,120 --> 00:24:00,680
reached out. 
He's alive, lives in Minnesota, 

387
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:03,480
but he wasn't put up for 
adoption. 

388
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:08,280
He was abandoned at a church. 
And what was her reaction? 

389
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:13,240
So she was under the assumption.
What I've learned later is so my

390
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:18,120
birth father told her that they 
were pregnant, they're going to 

391
00:24:18,120 --> 00:24:22,480
put him, put me up for adoption 
and supposedly a doctor and his 

392
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:26,080
wife was going to adopt me and 
that was the end of the story. 

393
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:29,360
How old were they when they? 
So my birth mother would have 

394
00:24:29,360 --> 00:24:33,440
been 22 and my birth father have
been 20-3 ish. 

395
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,400
Not old, but not young either. 
No. 

396
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:41,760
Did they explain why they were 
going to relinquish you for 

397
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:45,200
adoption? 
They weren't married at the time

398
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,640
and I don't know, my aunt told 
me that they probably wouldn't 

399
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,800
have been able to afford a child
at that time. 

400
00:24:52,360 --> 00:24:57,000
So. 
So she always knew about it but 

401
00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,120
never said anything to anyone 
because I think he had asked 

402
00:25:00,120 --> 00:25:03,880
her, hey, don't say anything. 
But when her husband was dying, 

403
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:09,160
she told her son, hey, in case 
someone reaches out, there is a 

404
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,440
cousin out there. 
OK. 

405
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,800
All right. 
Does she have any desire to 

406
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:21,680
speak to you or talk to you or? 
Of course they they wanted to. 

407
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,800
So they live down in southern 
United States, a ways away. 

408
00:25:26,360 --> 00:25:30,760
So my cousin was kind of like 
the go between the mediator. 

409
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,600
We got emailing together, 
talking on the phone together 

410
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:38,560
for a while. 
And he goes, well, my mother 

411
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:39,680
would really like to talk to 
you. 

412
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,960
So we set up a call and I called
and we called and we talked. 

413
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:48,280
So she filled me in about my 
birth father growing up, how he 

414
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:53,000
was as a boy, my grandparents on
their side, all that stuff. 

415
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:57,520
And she said if her parents 
would have known about me, I 

416
00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:59,000
would have never been put up for
adoption. 

417
00:25:59,360 --> 00:26:02,320
How did you feel hearing that? 
Would you say that you had a 

418
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:06,440
good childhood growing up? 
Yeah, I didn't have any qualms 

419
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:13,240
about my being raised typical 
Midwestern raised, all that 

420
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,720
stuff, no issues of any kind. 
I was fine with it. 

421
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,200
And I, it's still even to this 
day, the adoption part of it, or

422
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:21,880
even now I know the amendment 
part. 

423
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,160
It doesn't bother me. 
It's just part of me. 

424
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,960
But knowing that some people 
knew about it but didn't know 

425
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:33,960
about it per SE, and that 
knowing that the grandparents 

426
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:38,120
would have never let it happen 
if they would have known that. 

427
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:42,160
There was a it's complicated, 
right, because it's like you, 

428
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:46,000
but it's the what ifs. 
But then you also, you know, 

429
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,000
like you said, you had a good 
childhood, LED you to where you 

430
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:52,000
are now. 
It's it's a complex sort of 

431
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:57,360
thing to to process. 
OK, so you learned this about 

432
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,000
your grandparents. 
I'm I hopefully I'm not fast 

433
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,760
forwarding so you can slow me 
down if I if I am. 

434
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:08,040
But I'm really curious to know, 
does she reach out to her 

435
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:12,160
brother at any point? 
My cousin came to Minnesota 

436
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:19,080
Mother's Day weekend of 2023 and
he met with my father at their 

437
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:20,760
place. 
He goes, hey, I'm coming back 

438
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,840
for a wedding, I want to stop by
your place and just catch up. 

439
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:30,560
So he did that and he pulled my 
father aside and went outside 

440
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:37,200
and said, hey, your son James 
reached out to us, my mother, 

441
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:42,960
your sister, my mother know 
about it and he would like to 

442
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,440
meet you possibly. 
And what are your thoughts on 

443
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,720
that? 
So I think that took him kind of

444
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:53,040
by shock that oh, I'm out there 
and I found them type thing 

445
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,560
because at this moment I don't. 
I've been only communicating 

446
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,160
with my birth mother by by those
two emails. 

447
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,120
We've come to the conclusion she
probably never filled my birth 

448
00:28:04,120 --> 00:28:10,000
father in that I reached out 
because when my cousin brought 

449
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,800
it up, he was kind of like, oh 
really? 

450
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:17,440
He asked to see a picture of me,
asked to see where I if asked 

451
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:23,280
where I lived, if I was in still
in Minnesota or around and my 

452
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:25,520
cousin goes, he would really 
like to meet you guys. 

453
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,680
He goes nothing formal, just 
hey, just to check in. 

454
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,080
He goes well, I'll have to check
with my wife to see if that's 

455
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:37,600
OK. 
Do you think that he knew what 

456
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:39,480
happened to you? 
I knew. 

457
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:43,800
Yep. 
So after that meeting with my 

458
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:48,000
cousin and my birth father, we 
kind of kicked it into some more

459
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:53,120
high gear. 
I reached out to them before 

460
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:57,960
that Mother's Day meeting. 
I had sent an e-mail message to 

461
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:01,160
both my birth father and my 
birth mother. e-mail addresses, 

462
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,760
right? 
Describing what I did, what I 

463
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:08,000
found out, who you are, who I 
am, and what the story is. 

464
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:09,880
That was before that Mother's 
Day thing. 

465
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:15,400
And when I addressed the letter 
in there, it was just an e-mail 

466
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,880
letter. 
I had said, Hey, I hope I have 

467
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:22,240
your e-mail addresses right. 
Well she replied back to me 

468
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:25,240
saying hey don't reach out to us
anymore. 

469
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:27,160
Don't. 
This is intrusive. 

470
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:29,600
How do you think we feel about 
this? 

471
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:33,360
Don't reach out to our kids. 
Oh and that e-mail address of my

472
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,480
husband's is wrong. 
Well it wasn't the wrong e-mail 

473
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,440
address because my cousin had 
just used it. 

474
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,800
So then we were thinking she has
to be jumping into his emails 

475
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,640
and maybe deleting these records
or anything. 

476
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:47,840
We can't. 
We don't know that for sure, but

477
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,800
that was a possibility because 
just how he was surprised to 

478
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:57,160
hear that I had reached out. 
OK, so he says I'm going to talk

479
00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:00,640
to my wife before agreeing to 
meet or speak to James. 

480
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,280
My cousin goes, well let's give 
it a week and see if I hear back

481
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:07,320
from him. 
If if he's talked to his wife, a

482
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:11,280
week goes by, nothing. 
So then I contact my cousin and 

483
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,040
I said, hey, heard anything 
goes. 

484
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:14,240
Nope. 
He goes, you know what, I'm 

485
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:18,640
going to call him. 
So he called up his uncle, said,

486
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,240
hey, do you give more, more 
thought about it? 

487
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,040
He goes, yeah, she has. 
She wants to keep the past in 

488
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,280
the past and not bring anything 
up. 

489
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:28,640
It's good as it is. 
No, we don't want to meet or 

490
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:30,720
talk. 
How does that hit you? 

491
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:35,800
It's like, OK, you're still 
hiding or keeping it a secret of

492
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:37,040
what you're essentially trying 
to do. 

493
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:41,520
So my 2 birth parents know I 
know the story now. 

494
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,280
My aunt and cousin know the 
story on my father's side. 

495
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,720
You know this, the secrets not 
staying hidden anymore. 

496
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,760
Why are you still trying to keep
it hidden? 

497
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:53,240
They're trying to keep it hidden
is what they're on. 

498
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:55,520
They don't want it. 
They don't want anyone to reach 

499
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,600
out to their sons about it or 
nothing like that. 

500
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:02,520
OK, so your brothers, can I call
them your brothers or how do 

501
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,040
you? 
They're I call them my brothers.

502
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:08,840
OK. 
So they don't know at this 

503
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:09,800
point. 
Correct. 

504
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:13,640
And that my birth father even 
told my cousin that yeah, the 

505
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:19,000
boys do not know about this. 
All right, so you've, you've hit

506
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:23,520
another dead end. 
Your birth mother kind of 

507
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,520
freezes you out like from from 
the start. 

508
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:32,560
As soon as you identify her, 
there's speculation maybe she 

509
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,680
was intercepting any 
communication that you tried 

510
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:37,920
with your birth father. 
So he has no idea. 

511
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:43,800
He finds out much later that you
exist in the world that you 

512
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:48,360
found him. 
And he also learns, whether he 

513
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,520
accepts that or not, he learns 
what actually happened to you 

514
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:59,560
after you were born and or, or 
maybe he knew and it was 

515
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:00,960
awesome. 
I mean, I guess you don't really

516
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,000
know. 
And so your cousin is really 

517
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:07,200
helping you navigate this. 
What does he suggest that you do

518
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,080
next? 
Like after this rejection? 

519
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:16,200
So this is in now spring of 2024
getting to be the summer, so 

520
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:20,320
just about a year ago. 
And he wants to reach out to my 

521
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,800
he'd be my youngest brother. 
He wants to reach out to him 

522
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:30,920
himself and just say, hey, you 
have a brother out there your 

523
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,240
parents didn't tell you about. 
And the reason he feels 

524
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:37,240
comfortable with the youngest 
one is he was his godfather for 

525
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:41,680
him. 
And we first talked that first 

526
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:46,280
night I reached out to him, he 
told me that my youngest brother

527
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:52,920
was baptized at the church. 
I was left at like 4-5 six years

528
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:58,200
later at the same church. 
And that church, the main pastor

529
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:02,720
or main pastor is from the 
hometown of my mother. 

530
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:09,120
And when I was talking to the 
associate pastor, the one that 

531
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:14,200
baptized me, he's told me in an 
e-mail and over the a message 

532
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:18,320
saying I've always had the 
assumption that the main pastor,

533
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:23,200
we'll just call him Pastor John,
had an assumption on who 

534
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,880
possibly left this baby, but he 
could not say. 

535
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:31,160
So as far as you're concerned, 
you've got the information you 

536
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,320
need. 
This is what happened despite 

537
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:36,600
what your birth parents are are 
saying. 

538
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:42,280
OK, what happens when your 
cousin reaches out to your 

539
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:48,200
little brother? 
So he never did because I I 

540
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:49,520
didn't want to wait around 
anymore. 

541
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:57,120
And in 2024, July 1st, Minnesota
passed a law where I can get my 

542
00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,880
original birth certificate. 
I did not have that. 

543
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:03,760
I had the one that's amended 
with my adoptive parents names, 

544
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,280
my generic birth date and all 
that, right? 

545
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:13,360
So in July of 2024, when that 
hit July 1st, I mailed that 

546
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:17,000
thing off, paid the fee for it 
so I can get my original birth 

547
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:18,920
certificate. 
I said there has to be that 

548
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:21,520
because the doctor even said he 
wanted to fill one out. 

549
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:26,239
So two weeks come by, I get my 
original birth certificate in 

550
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:30,760
the mail and it has my name, 
James. 

551
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:35,000
Which kind of surprised, didn't 
surprise me, not really, because

552
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:40,199
my parents always told me that 
the foster family named me Jimmy

553
00:34:40,679 --> 00:34:43,120
or James, and I was used to that
after eight months. 

554
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:44,760
So they decided to keep that 
name. 

555
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:48,880
There was a last name on the 
birth certificate, which just 

556
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,600
threw me a curveball. 
It's a common one around in 

557
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:54,000
Minnesota, but it's like, where 
did they get that name? 

558
00:34:54,360 --> 00:35:02,280
The where I was born address was
the church I was left at and 

559
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:04,760
that was about it on the birth 
certificate, you know, male, 

560
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:08,240
white, and then I think they 
gave the weight of 1. 

561
00:35:08,240 --> 00:35:09,880
They weighed me that night, 
whatever. 

562
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:15,200
But when Minnesota did that 
original birth certificate 

563
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:19,400
search, they also search for 
adoption records. 

564
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,240
There was 2 records they also 
searched for. 

565
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,760
I knew I was abandoned but my 
birth father and birth mother 

566
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,280
are saying you were put up for a
private adoption. 

567
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:32,720
Well when I got the files back 
that there was no adoption 

568
00:35:32,720 --> 00:35:36,240
record in Minnesota that went 
that were under those parents 

569
00:35:36,240 --> 00:35:40,840
names even not married like the 
maiden name or the married name.

570
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,920
There was no records. 
So I got that back. 

571
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:48,680
So after I got it back, I 
emailed my birth mother. 

572
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:50,880
So this is probably like the 
third, only third or fourth 

573
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:52,880
communication. 
I have had her head with her by 

574
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:56,000
e-mail. 
I had three questions. 

575
00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:01,160
I said when is my birthday 
because I don't know it. 

576
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:07,080
Is there any medical history, 
like relevant medical history I 

577
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:10,080
need to know of? 
Not just generic cancer or heart

578
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:12,200
disease. 
I want real stuff. 

579
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:17,480
And then are you questioning the
story that I was abandoned 

580
00:36:17,720 --> 00:36:20,240
because she told me I was lying 
about that in what previous 

581
00:36:20,240 --> 00:36:21,920
e-mail and that I was put up for
adoption? 

582
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:26,080
She replied back, I don't know 
when your birthday is. 

583
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:31,080
It was a day in August. 
Here are your the detailed 

584
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:34,360
cancer stuff or diabetes stuff 
like that. 

585
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,760
And no, I'm not questioning your
story. 

586
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:39,120
Someone else must have left you 
there. 

587
00:36:40,240 --> 00:36:47,720
OK, so in this scenario, the 
doctor and his wife who adopted 

588
00:36:47,720 --> 00:36:51,600
you or it's. 
Like, so I even thought to 

589
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,720
myself, I said, I don't care if 
it's a private adoption unless 

590
00:36:54,720 --> 00:36:57,200
it's like a backdoor alley 
adoption. 

591
00:36:57,680 --> 00:36:59,280
Any adoption's gonna have a 
record. 

592
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,720
And if someone else left me 
there, I'm pretty sure the 

593
00:37:03,720 --> 00:37:06,360
social worker is gonna check on 
the family that they gave a 

594
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:08,640
child to like down the road a 
month or two. 

595
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:10,960
And where's this baby at that 
you had? 

596
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:12,640
Right. 
Exactly. 

597
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:15,840
Yeah. 
How? 

598
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,600
How do you feel to be getting 
these responses from? 

599
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:23,480
Her So now me and my wife are 
like, OK, she is not not 

600
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:26,200
painting a very nice picture of 
her because she's like, you 

601
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:30,280
know, putting up wall after wall
and then essentially, I don't 

602
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:33,160
know, lying about it or trying 
to deceive me. 

603
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:36,600
So I was like, we're not getting
a very good first impression. 

604
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:43,840
So that was July of 2024. 
Last year, of course, it took 

605
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:48,320
her a week or two to get back to
me asking those three questions.

606
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:51,360
And that was the last time I 
communicated with her. 

607
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:53,280
It was a couple days before my 
birthday last year. 

608
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:58,400
And me and my cousin, we've been
talking. 

609
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:04,360
I talked to my aunt in in that 
time frame of the last six 

610
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:05,880
months. 
She had talked to her brother 

611
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:11,480
and said our parents will be 
upset with you if you just close

612
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:14,840
him out like this. 
He's not asking to move in, he's

613
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:17,360
not asking for money, he just 
wants to meet. 

614
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:20,120
That's one of my cousins asked 
me multiple times. 

615
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:23,800
He goes, what's your end goal? 
I said I want my brothers to 

616
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:28,080
know about me and if we have a 
relationship, fine. 

617
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:31,160
If not, that's fine either. 
Just as long as they're aware of

618
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:33,920
me. 
Because even looking through 

619
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:38,400
social media of theirs, we 
attended the same concerts 

620
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:44,200
together in Minneapolis, same 
night, same concert, we have the

621
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:47,040
same likes. 
We were able to find my 

622
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:50,240
siblings, Facebook's accounts 
and my wife. 

623
00:38:50,240 --> 00:38:54,480
And even now my friends, they 
go, my Lord, you are identical 

624
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:56,200
to the oldest one. 
I'm the oldest. 

625
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:59,640
But in the middle one, their 
oldest spitting images of each 

626
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:02,680
other, they go, oh you are for 
sure related to them. 

627
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:07,440
What is your birth father say to
your aunt about this? 

628
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:14,360
It's all it's up to his wife and
right now we want to keep it in 

629
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:16,800
the past. 
We even question the abandonment

630
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:20,320
story he told her one time, if 
that's even true. 

631
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:25,880
So that was. 
Have paperwork to show it. 

632
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:29,040
I mean multiple multiple places 
to confirm. 

633
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:35,760
So that was August of last year.
Since then, I didn't have any 

634
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:39,680
communication with my birth 
parents until last week. 

635
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,520
But last fall, I said, you know 
what? 

636
00:39:42,720 --> 00:39:47,120
I know my birth father's side of
the family, talked to a cousin, 

637
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:49,520
talked to an aunt, got the 
details on that. 

638
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:56,800
I'm going to find my birth 
mother's sister, which only 

639
00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:00,000
lives two hours from me. 
So again, an older lady. 

640
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:04,680
No social media whatsoever. 
I found her son, reached out to 

641
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:10,480
him on Facebook again, a generic
hey, is your mom so and so? 

642
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:15,840
I think she's my maternal aunt 
and these are my grandparents. 

643
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:19,440
I'd like to chat with you. 
Or if you even get me her e-mail

644
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:21,400
or phone number, I'd like to 
call, chat with her. 

645
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:26,840
Radio silence. 
It's like, OK, I'm the most 

646
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,600
impatient person you'll meet. 
But when it came to this stuff, 

647
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:32,360
I kind of was patient. 
I put it off, put it off. 

648
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:37,840
I think it was early November. 
I said, you know what, I'm going

649
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:41,240
to mail an actual letter to this
lady, my aunt. 

650
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:47,120
So in that letter, all I wrote 
was, hey, I think you're my aunt

651
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:51,960
so and so are my grandparents. 
I'd love to chat with you. 

652
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:57,760
So I sent that like on a Monday 
or Tuesday on a Saturday 

653
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:02,320
morning, I'm standing in Walmart
and I get a call from a number I

654
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:04,600
didn't know. 
Then all of a sudden it's a 

655
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:10,320
message left. 
Hey, James, this is so and so I 

656
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:14,880
think we need to talk. 
It was my aunt from my mother's 

657
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:18,840
side. 
So I raced home, called her up. 

658
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:24,600
She goes, so tell me who you are
and who are your parents? 

659
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:29,680
I go, well, I'm James. 
You're my aunt. 

660
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:33,200
I'm pretty sure because your 
parents are my grandparents. 

661
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:38,520
She goes, who's your parents? 
I said, it's so and so. 

662
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:40,920
Are you sure? 
I go, Yep. 

663
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:44,520
So I told her the story. 
I said, Yep, I was abandoned at 

664
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,480
a church in 1978, da, da, da, 
da. 

665
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,280
And when I called her, she goes,
just so you know, you're on 

666
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,520
speakerphone. 
My son is here, my husband's 

667
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:58,000
here, and I have a friend here. 
I said, yeah, that's fine. 

668
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:02,240
Well, while I'm talking to her 
on speakerphone, the friends in 

669
00:42:02,240 --> 00:42:06,120
the background on Google 
searching Star Tribune 1978, 

670
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:09,200
September 1st, she goes, yeah, 
the articles right here. 

671
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:12,840
And she shows it to my aunt that
I wasn't lying or made it up. 

672
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:16,680
She goes, I had never knew 
anything about you or nothing. 

673
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:18,840
So she's nine years older than 
my birth mother. 

674
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:23,320
She goes, I had no idea, not not
a clue. 

675
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:27,520
You know, nine years apart. 
That's a long gap for sisters. 

676
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:31,320
She goes, I didn't have much of 
a relationship with her until 

677
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:32,760
their mother died. 
She goes. 

678
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:37,520
Now, we communicate daily. 
She goes, At first I thought 

679
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,200
this was a scam, and then her 
son piped in. 

680
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:43,320
He goes, yeah. 
So how the story goes is she got

681
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:46,160
this letter from me, Rhett, read
it. 

682
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:50,080
She goes, this has to be a scam.
Sent a picture of it to her two 

683
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:53,320
daughters and her son, and the 
two daughters go, throw that 

684
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:55,240
away, mom, that's a scam. 
They're probably looking for 

685
00:42:55,240 --> 00:42:57,800
money. 
And the brother goes, wait a 

686
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:01,800
minute, let me check something. 
He goes back to his Facebook. 

687
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:05,360
He goes, yeah, I seen this 
message pop up, but I thought it

688
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:07,320
was a scam, too, so I just left 
it there. 

689
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:10,160
He goes, yeah, he reached out to
me with the same story. 

690
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:13,560
He goes, I think this is legit. 
And then, you know, on Facebook,

691
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:16,080
you can see, like, your profile 
picture. 

692
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:18,880
And they go, oh, my Lord, he 
looks just like the other 

693
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:21,040
sibling. 
This has to be true. 

694
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:24,280
Wow. 
So you're making lots of inroads

695
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:29,280
here, although not not with your
birth parents, but all around. 

696
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:32,000
And it seems like people are 
pretty open to you. 

697
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:34,880
Yep. 
So my aunt, my father's side 

698
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:37,880
welcomes they they want me to 
come and visit, which I am 

699
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:40,240
scheduling here in the next 
month or so to go down there and

700
00:43:40,240 --> 00:43:42,240
visit. 
But they welcomed me in. 

701
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:45,120
My cousin, I've been 
communicating with his brother 

702
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:49,920
wants to meet all that stuff. 
And now this aunt that didn't 

703
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:55,800
know any idea about me, she even
sent me pictures of her family, 

704
00:43:55,800 --> 00:44:00,480
like my grandparents and my my 
mother and stuff like the 

705
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:04,520
following week and then signs it
Aunt so and so and she goes, 

706
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:08,760
yeah, you're part of the family.
And then actually within a 

707
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:12,760
couple weeks of that, me and my 
son, we are doing campus tours. 

708
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:15,920
We stopped by and went and visit
her in person so she was able to

709
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:17,920
meet me in person and all that 
stuff. 

710
00:44:18,240 --> 00:44:21,000
Well, what was that like? 
Was that the first time that 

711
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:25,160
you'd been around anybody who's 
biologically related? 

712
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:27,720
To you first biological person 
ever. 

713
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:29,600
Attached. 
What was that like? 

714
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:32,440
That was kind of crazy and it 
was cool to see. 

715
00:44:32,720 --> 00:44:36,800
So yeah, we took a picture and 
we sat there for an hour and 

716
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:40,560
chit chatted and all that. 
And then since then, she's come 

717
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:44,560
to my town where I live. 
We spent a day together. 

718
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:50,120
I took her around the town 
because what is absolutely mind 

719
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:53,320
boggling is I was born in 
Minneapolis. 

720
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:57,080
And then through the adoption, 
my parents ended up we're in 

721
00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:03,640
northern Minnesota in a town 
that has more relatives of mine 

722
00:45:04,720 --> 00:45:06,720
than my wife that was born and 
raised here. 

723
00:45:07,240 --> 00:45:10,440
I actually have a cemetery. 
It's a old country church 

724
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:15,800
cemetery, all relatives of mine 
that I had no idea about. 

725
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:22,200
I ended up in a town that my 
grandfather played hockey in, 

726
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:25,000
one of the very first hockey 
teams in this town. 

727
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:27,760
He played here, his brother 
played here. 

728
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:34,520
My aunt that I met, my mother's 
sister would come and visit 

729
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:37,400
their family in this town and 
she knew all about this town 

730
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:41,640
because they are only three 
hours north of where I live now.

731
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:46,040
It was where they grew up, but 
in the town back in, we're 

732
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:51,560
talking like the late 30s was a 
big lumber mill type hub where 

733
00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:55,240
my grandfather grew up, played 
hockey, all that stuff. 

734
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:00,520
And you know, we hear about this
sometimes, but like, lucky that 

735
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:05,360
you didn't end up dating a 
relative or something. 

736
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:10,680
Because after I did some more 
research on my family tree, some

737
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:13,960
hits come up and it's like he's 
my classmate. 

738
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:16,000
He was actually my friend in 
high school. 

739
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:20,080
So I messaged his brother, 
another one I knew. 

740
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:23,560
I go, hey, is so and so your 
great grandmother? 

741
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:26,400
He goes, Yeah, Why you asking? 
I said mine too. 

742
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:29,440
He goes, what? 
I go, yeah, here. 

743
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:34,080
This is who my grandparents are.
He goes, oh, I know your grandma

744
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:36,840
and your aunt and all that stuff
here. 

745
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:41,280
My classmate which I graduated 
with is my second cousin. 

746
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:46,240
You know, once or twice removed 
been to his place, never knew. 

747
00:46:46,240 --> 00:46:49,680
I had no idea about it when I 
called my aunt that weekend. 

748
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:55,640
She called my mother the next 
day and she said hey, you know 

749
00:46:55,640 --> 00:47:00,640
they usually communicate daily. 
She goes a James so and 

750
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:04,040
so-called me today. 
You know who that is? 

751
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:09,760
My mother goes Nope, never heard
of him and my aunt goes stop 

752
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:13,120
lying. 
I know who he is, I know the 

753
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:18,800
story and everything with it. 
My mother, I guess, went silent 

754
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:23,400
and in a minute or two hung up 
on her, hung up on her sister. 

755
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,400
What did, what did your aunt say
about that? 

756
00:47:27,240 --> 00:47:30,640
So she's, I call her a little 
whippersnapper. 

757
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:33,640
She was another one that just 
welcomed me in and she wants me 

758
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:38,520
to meet my siblings. 
She so in the main meantime 

759
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:43,120
since then and till now, she's 
been after her sister saying you

760
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:46,440
need to meet your son again. 
He's not asking to move in, he's

761
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:49,160
not asking for money. 
He would just like to meet one 

762
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:52,240
time, even if it's just one time
or even have some kind of 

763
00:47:52,240 --> 00:47:55,760
conversation with you. 
And even that weekend where she 

764
00:47:55,760 --> 00:48:01,040
came up and spent the day with 
us, we took pictures at a local 

765
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:04,960
hockey rink because lo and 
behold, this local hockey rink 

766
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:11,400
we have has these ginormous team
photos from back in the day when

767
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:15,920
hockey originated in this town. 
My grandfather isn't kneeling on

768
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:20,080
the front pitcher of one of 
them, so she had to see a 

769
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:24,280
picture of that. 
And it's how crazy it is that so

770
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:27,800
my son played hockey, played in 
the same arena that my 

771
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:30,080
grandfather did back in the 
1930s. 

772
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:36,200
And we had no idea about it. 
So then my aunt told her two 

773
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:39,840
daughters about this. 
And the one daughter even mailed

774
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:43,600
a letter to my mother saying, 
hey, I heard about this. 

775
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:46,920
This is kind of cool and 
astounding. 

776
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:49,480
You really need to maybe reach 
out to him and meet. 

777
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:54,280
There was no reply to that 
letter to this day when I met 

778
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:56,000
with my aunt, when she came to 
where I live. 

779
00:48:56,000 --> 00:49:02,400
This was in June of this year. 
And she's been she didn't want 

780
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:05,320
to upset the apple cart per SE 
either cuz she just got into a 

781
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:10,240
relationship with her sister, my
mother in the last like 6 years.

782
00:49:10,240 --> 00:49:15,920
Cuz here I find out my mother's 
mother died in 2019. 

783
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:19,840
I would have known that I've 
been to that town where she 

784
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:21,760
lived when my son was playing 
hockey. 

785
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:25,840
I was in the town watching my 
son play where my grandmother 

786
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:31,520
lived. 
And I missed, missed her by, you

787
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:32,920
know, however many years you 
want to say. 

788
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:37,880
In March of this year, I got my 
brother's cell phone numbers and

789
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:42,560
I messaged them myself on my 
text from a text I seen that 

790
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:45,200
they read it. 
The first one was just, hey, 

791
00:49:45,240 --> 00:49:46,880
we're related. 
I'd like to talk to you. 

792
00:49:47,240 --> 00:49:50,480
I got no reply, waited a week, 
sent one another one saying, 

793
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:53,880
hey, I'm your brother. 
Your parents are my parents. 

794
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:57,480
I'd like to tell you about the 
story again. 

795
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:01,720
I seen there was red but no 
response and people have asked 

796
00:50:01,720 --> 00:50:05,120
why don't you just call them? 
It's like I just don't know what

797
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:09,280
I it's so much easier in a text 
message what you would say then 

798
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:13,960
calling someone that has at this
time no idea I existed. 

799
00:50:14,240 --> 00:50:20,440
I think something that's coming 
to mind without judgement, to be

800
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:25,000
clear, is that I think there's 
sometimes this question that 

801
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:31,440
adoptees or NP ES or donor 
conceived people get around. 

802
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:35,800
Why do you want to know? 
Why do you want to connect with 

803
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:38,520
these people? 
Why do you want to like keep 

804
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:43,680
reaching out? 
And so I'm curious like what was

805
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:47,800
compelling you to want to speak 
to them? 

806
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:51,080
I think that would be really 
important for people to hear and

807
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:54,720
understand. 
I've been asked that multiple 

808
00:50:54,720 --> 00:50:58,120
times and as of right now I 
don't care if I meet my birth 

809
00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:02,400
parents right now they're 
putting up too many walls and if

810
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:05,120
they don't want to meet me, 
they're lost and I've got really

811
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:06,880
nothing to lose. 
I didn't have them in the first 

812
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:11,200
place so I have nothing to lose.
But I think it's important that 

813
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:14,680
my brothers siblings know that I
exist. 

814
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:20,760
I'm open to meet with them and I
could, I agree past is in the 

815
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:24,120
past, but it's always present 
still and I'm I'm still around. 

816
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:27,600
Let's just get over it and go 
forward. 

817
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:29,640
And if we have a relationship, 
that's fine. 

818
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:34,040
If not as, as at least they know
I'm out there now. 

819
00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:37,720
It's just the part that doesn't 
keep me up at night. 

820
00:51:37,720 --> 00:51:41,320
But I, I keep going back to 
ancestry all the time, checking 

821
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:47,600
to see if any new hits is 
there's a family out there that 

822
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:51,800
I'm not part of, but that they 
could just, they don't even have

823
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:54,320
to acknowledge me, but they 
could say, hey, that happened. 

824
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:57,040
Here's the reason. 
Because that's one question I 

825
00:51:57,040 --> 00:52:00,600
have for my birth mother. 
What was the reason behind it? 

826
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:05,200
And I don't care. 
It was your prerogative to do 

827
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:07,640
that. 
But let's just not lie about it 

828
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:10,280
and that the secret's out now. 
Let's we don't need to keep 

829
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:13,760
burying it. 
Yeah, yeah. 

830
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:17,080
Do you want to have a 
connection? 

831
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:20,840
I mean, you said you've, you've 
released maybe an expectations 

832
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:24,320
from your birth parents, but do 
you want to have that like 

833
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:29,280
family feeling from the people 
that you have spoken to or like 

834
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:32,320
from your brothers that you've, 
you know, haven't necessarily 

835
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:35,400
connected with? 
People always say that mirroring

836
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:37,720
thing, you want to see yourself 
and someone else. 

837
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:42,600
I've yet to do that. 
My aunt is the closest, but when

838
00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:46,520
I see pictures of my brothers, 
you can spit in images of each 

839
00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:51,000
other. 
And I even came across a high 

840
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:56,600
school picture of my birth 
father playing baseball and I 

841
00:52:56,600 --> 00:53:00,960
took a quick snap shot of it and
sent it to my wife and my son 

842
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:03,280
and my daughter. 
I said, who is that in that 

843
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:06,720
picture? 
And my wife and son both come 

844
00:53:06,720 --> 00:53:07,720
back. 
That's me. 

845
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:11,560
That's our son. 
I go no, that's my father at the

846
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:15,160
same age as my son, spitting 
images of each other. 

847
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:19,960
What do your kids think about 
this? 

848
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:23,760
They've been asked about that. 
It's kind of like a cool story 

849
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:28,320
for them to talk about or 
something like that. 

850
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:33,280
But it's also, they know kind of
where I come from, from my 

851
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:39,240
adopted family side, but nothing
that's not in their blood, you 

852
00:53:39,240 --> 00:53:43,040
know, it's not blood related. 
Until this opened up and I 

853
00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:46,480
started meeting people, the 
story of me and being abandoned,

854
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:48,960
they understand what happened. 
We even went and visit that 

855
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:53,840
church a couple summers ago. 
I went to the church myself and 

856
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:56,320
then seen the stairway I was 
left at. 

857
00:53:56,680 --> 00:53:59,400
What was that like? 
That was kind of cool. 

858
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:03,000
It was after a Sunday Mass and 
this parishioner comes running 

859
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:04,400
out. 
Hey, come back next week. 

860
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:08,240
We're at 9:00 Mass. 
I said, I'm just looking here. 

861
00:54:08,240 --> 00:54:09,720
I go. 
By any chance how long have you 

862
00:54:09,720 --> 00:54:12,360
been a parishioner here? 
And she goes, ah, only since 

863
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:14,720
like the 80s. 
She goes, why do you ask? 

864
00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:17,960
I said, well, I was abandoned 
here in 1978. 

865
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:20,560
She goes, you were what? 
She goes, come with me. 

866
00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:22,880
There's a Bible studied 
happening down in the basement 

867
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:25,200
and there's some old people that
been around since then. 

868
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:30,720
So she took me in there and I 
met a couple older people that 

869
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:33,640
vaguely remember the story of 
happening in that that church 

870
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:37,240
and what a full circle moment to
come back to the church you were

871
00:54:37,240 --> 00:54:40,600
left at. 
So when the wall has been kind 

872
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:43,760
of put up for my birth parents 
ever meeting them, I kind of 

873
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:47,560
just acknowledge this and OK, 
the siblings will come along 

874
00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:50,360
sometime. 
Hey, after my birth parents die,

875
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:54,400
the siblings are full game. 
I'll just show up at their 

876
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:57,400
doorstep if I have to. 
But the birth mother's kind of 

877
00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:00,880
playing gatekeeper per SE. 
I said, well, let's move on to 

878
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:03,840
the foster parents because I was
fostered for eight months. 

879
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:07,360
I'd like to just touch base with
them saying, hey, thanks for 

880
00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:08,800
taking care of me for eight 
months. 

881
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:13,280
I'm still alive and kicking. 
So I had asked Lutheran Social 

882
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:16,680
Services for any information and
they go, well, you have to fill 

883
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:18,960
out this application and pay for
it. 

884
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:22,840
I go, I did that in 2006 and 
there wasn't much in there. 

885
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:25,000
Can you just tell me if there's 
any more in there? 

886
00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:28,840
They go, well, you really need 
to fill out the application and 

887
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:33,400
submit it, but the laws have 
changed since you asked in 2006.

888
00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:37,440
And kind of she didn't give a 
wink, wink in the e-mail, but 

889
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:40,640
kind of like beat around the 
Bush, like you should really 

890
00:55:41,240 --> 00:55:46,640
reapply to get paperwork. 
So I did that and I got assigned

891
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:49,320
a person after 12 weeks to go 
look at my records. 

892
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:56,800
And she goes, yeah, here's more 
records from the foster family 

893
00:55:57,240 --> 00:55:59,960
that you were there. 
She was able to put me into 

894
00:55:59,960 --> 00:56:03,320
contact with them for the foster
family. 

895
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:06,920
And we're actually going to, I'm
going to meet them for the first

896
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:11,080
time again here this Friday. 
I'm going down there to visit 

897
00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:13,120
them. 
Oh my God, you'll have to give 

898
00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:17,680
me an update on how it goes. 
So they fostered over 1200 kids,

899
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:21,360
but they were an emergency 
shelter. 

900
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:26,120
So she said that they had kids 
from within from hours at most a

901
00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:27,880
couple weeks. 
They all they had the kids. 

902
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:31,440
She goes, I was an exception. 
They had me for eight months 

903
00:56:32,240 --> 00:56:35,720
because of the scenario that I 
would there was no parents. 

904
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:39,360
And so they had me for eight 
months. 

905
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:43,440
They named me. 
She told me that they had three 

906
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:47,480
kids of their own and her 
husband never wanted to have 

907
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:50,320
like a junior. 
It's named after him, no son. 

908
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:54,120
So when they were able to name 
me, she named me after him. 

909
00:56:54,680 --> 00:56:57,120
So now I know where my first 
name comes from. 

910
00:56:58,920 --> 00:57:02,760
So that was cool to hear. 
So I've talked to them on the 

911
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:05,360
phone and I'm going to meet them
in person this Friday. 

912
00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:08,240
But they remembered me because 
we had to communicate through 

913
00:57:08,240 --> 00:57:11,320
the social worker. 
They go oh baby Jimmy, I 

914
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:16,520
remember him for sure. 
Oh my gosh, that's so cool that 

915
00:57:16,520 --> 00:57:19,680
you're able to connect with them
and that they're still alive and

916
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:20,560
you're able to. 
Yeah. 

917
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:23,480
They are, no. 
They're in their mid 80s, so 

918
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:26,640
very lucky that they're, like 
you said, they're still alive. 

919
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:30,840
That I was able to meet because 
my parents got me at 8 months 

920
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:33,440
old. 
I have nothing before that eight

921
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:36,480
months of my life. 
Nothing besides the newspaper 

922
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:40,480
article and some police reports 
I have from the night I was 

923
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:44,120
found. 
So now I should be able to be 

924
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:48,200
filled in a bit from my foster 
family how I was those eight 

925
00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:50,560
months because they got me like 
that night. 

926
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:55,760
I got 34 files of the night I 
was found. 

927
00:57:56,280 --> 00:58:01,920
So I got the official police 
report detailed by the police 

928
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:05,600
officers, names, badge number, 
them coming up to the scene at 

929
00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:09,520
the church who reported it, all 
that. 

930
00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:13,240
And then I've got all the 
paperwork of me going through 

931
00:58:13,240 --> 00:58:19,520
the system becoming, you know, 
my parental rights being let go 

932
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:23,240
after a search and such date. 
You know, So I was in the front 

933
00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:26,480
page of the newspaper. 
I was on radio stations, they 

934
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:31,160
put out articles and newspapers 
saying if you are the parents of

935
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:34,560
this abandoned boy happened on 
this such and such date, your 

936
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:37,600
parental rights are going to be 
dismissed on this day if you 

937
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:40,400
don't show up. 
So I got all the court records 

938
00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:44,480
of the day I became a ward of 
the state because no parent 

939
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:47,600
showed up. 
Parents John Doe, Baby Doe or 

940
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:50,760
all that. 
So now I've got all the 

941
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:51,840
paperwork. 
Got it. 

942
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:53,960
It's only paperwork. 
But everything from the night I 

943
00:58:53,960 --> 00:58:59,280
was found up until I was adopted
out of foster care, and then I 

944
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:02,480
got that information from my 
adoptive parents. 

945
00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:06,800
What I still don't have is my 
birth date. 

946
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:12,040
Like when was I actually born? 
All that information. 

947
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:15,520
Are your adoptive parents still 
alive? 

948
00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:19,520
My dad is my mom died 10 years 
ago. 

949
00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:22,760
She knew. 
I reached out to Lutheran Source

950
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:27,000
Services the first time, and I'm
pretty sure she got to see the 

951
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:28,840
newspaper article, the front 
page. 

952
00:59:28,840 --> 00:59:31,120
She thought that was cool, but 
she remembers a different 

953
00:59:31,120 --> 00:59:35,120
article when they read about me.
I could never find that one. 

954
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:38,640
But then she died before the DNA
testing and stuff happened. 

955
00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:41,480
She'd be tickled pink right now.
And what I found out? 

956
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:45,560
Oh, that's so amazing that they 
were supportive of you trying to

957
00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:48,680
find this information and and 
that they were open with you 

958
00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:51,360
just from the beginning with 
what they felt was age 

959
00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:54,920
appropriate, right. 
My dad still asks me, you know, 

960
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:57,960
weekly or monthly, like any 
headway. 

961
00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:00,520
He knows the story. 
Up to now, he just never really 

962
01:00:00,520 --> 01:00:01,920
said what he thinks about or 
feels. 

963
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:04,040
But he just asked me where we're
at with it. 

964
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:10,720
Now you alluded earlier that 
when you were abandoned there 

965
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:15,480
that you were left with with 
things like a. 

966
01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:17,320
Bottle. 
And yeah. 

967
01:00:17,320 --> 01:00:22,760
So in the police report, a 
detailed plastic shopping bag 

968
01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:26,280
with plastic handles and you 
know, those plastic handles on 

969
01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:29,800
bags that actually like snap 
together, that's what it 

970
01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:32,880
detailed in there. 
It's like, wait a minute, I have

971
01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:38,120
that bag and cuz I just thought 
I my parents gave me that bag. 

972
01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:40,720
The stuff that was found with me
when I turned 18. 

973
01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:42,680
They gave it to me. 
They said they'd never looked 

974
01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:44,800
into it. 
They said that is your stuff. 

975
01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:46,920
We never looked into it. 
They had no idea what was in 

976
01:00:46,920 --> 01:00:51,880
there and I just thought it was 
a random bag that they had taken

977
01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:54,000
because it was from a Maryland 
department store. 

978
01:00:54,280 --> 01:00:56,520
Well, my mom had an aunt that 
lived in Maryland. 

979
01:00:56,640 --> 01:00:59,560
So I just put two and two 
together that it was just a bag 

980
01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:04,440
that they grabbed. 
Well, speaking with my mother's 

981
01:01:04,440 --> 01:01:09,440
sister, my aunt, my mother lived
out in Washington, DC the year 

982
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:13,680
before I was born. 
And Washington, DC is next to 

983
01:01:13,680 --> 01:01:16,000
Maryland, where this department 
store was. 

984
01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:20,960
Yeah. 
So this this bag she brought 

985
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:25,120
back with her and proceeded to 
got it. 

986
01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:29,120
I'm 99% sure she's the one that 
left me there. 99% sure. 

987
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:33,920
But there's that 1.1%. 
But how would I get left with 

988
01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:36,360
the bag that you brought back 
with you? 

989
01:01:38,040 --> 01:01:40,280
Yeah. 
And I just found that out here 

990
01:01:40,560 --> 01:01:42,280
last month when I got this 
police report. 

991
01:01:42,280 --> 01:01:46,720
It's like I have that bag 
sitting in my storage. 

992
01:01:48,560 --> 01:01:51,720
It's amazing how much of the 
information that you find is, I 

993
01:01:52,200 --> 01:01:55,200
don't want to say luck because 
you put a lot of work into it, 

994
01:01:55,200 --> 01:02:01,000
but it it's wow. 
What are your feelings towards 

995
01:02:01,600 --> 01:02:04,440
your birth mother and birth 
father? 

996
01:02:05,600 --> 01:02:09,200
So if I'm being honest, I think 
it's, and I've been told this 

997
01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:12,520
from both my aunts, that my 
birth mother kind of runs the 

998
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:17,400
roost there, runs the house. 
They're not surprised that the 

999
01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:21,080
siblings have not responded. 
When I had texted my siblings, I

1000
01:02:21,080 --> 01:02:23,840
never heard nothing back. 
About a month later I sent a 

1001
01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:28,280
certified letter to the oldest 1
so I knew it would get to him 

1002
01:02:28,720 --> 01:02:31,880
explaining the whole story. 
Never heard nothing back. 

1003
01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:34,800
Probably in June of this year my
aunt called me. 

1004
01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:39,880
My birth father's sister said he
called me last night and told me

1005
01:02:39,880 --> 01:02:44,280
that the boys know of you 
because the oldest one came and 

1006
01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:47,640
asked him if this is true. 
Supposedly he got a letter or a 

1007
01:02:47,640 --> 01:02:51,240
message. 
So as of right now they know 

1008
01:02:51,240 --> 01:02:53,400
about me. 
They have not reached out back 

1009
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:56,360
to me, but we don't know what 
story they've been told. 

1010
01:02:56,840 --> 01:03:01,200
Last week was my birthday week. 
So the day before my birthday I 

1011
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:03,800
emailed my birth mother first 
time in a year. 

1012
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:09,320
Told her this past is the past 
secret does not need to be 

1013
01:03:09,320 --> 01:03:13,280
buried anymore. 
I just want to let you know that

1014
01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:16,440
your siblings on both. 
I emailed it to both my birth 

1015
01:03:16,440 --> 01:03:19,440
father and birth mother. 
Blind carbon copied so she 

1016
01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:24,840
didn't see that he got it. 
Just saying hey I've met and 

1017
01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:27,120
talked to your siblings and 
their families. 

1018
01:03:27,200 --> 01:03:30,040
They've welcomed me in. 
They're awesome people. 

1019
01:03:30,480 --> 01:03:35,160
I said I'm open to meeting you. 
If you don't want to, that's 

1020
01:03:35,160 --> 01:03:37,400
fine. 
My son graduated this last 

1021
01:03:37,400 --> 01:03:39,320
spring. 
We sent them a graduation 

1022
01:03:39,320 --> 01:03:43,280
announcement unmarked, just had 
the address label and send it to

1023
01:03:43,280 --> 01:03:46,960
them just so they can see. 
My son is 18. 

1024
01:03:46,960 --> 01:03:51,520
They could have had 18 years. 
My daughter's 15. 

1025
01:03:52,400 --> 01:03:56,680
I'd say they missed out. 
So that's not a regret of mine, 

1026
01:03:56,680 --> 01:03:58,800
but it's something, you know 
what, that they missed out on. 

1027
01:03:59,680 --> 01:04:02,800
So she replied back and she 
said, I understand our 

1028
01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:07,760
communication isn't what you 
want or like we did acknowledge 

1029
01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:10,440
the graduation announcement for 
your son, which she did. 

1030
01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:13,280
She just did a random e-mail, 
got the graduation announcement.

1031
01:04:13,360 --> 01:04:16,200
Congrats, that's all it was. 
She never calls me by name on 

1032
01:04:16,200 --> 01:04:18,400
emails either. 
It's just hello, no name. 

1033
01:04:19,400 --> 01:04:24,120
But she has been signing the 
last two emails now, her and her

1034
01:04:24,120 --> 01:04:25,640
husband's name, her and my 
father's name. 

1035
01:04:25,640 --> 01:04:28,160
She did sign it like take care 
or whatever. 

1036
01:04:28,160 --> 01:04:30,800
So I think there might be a 
little bit leeway. 

1037
01:04:30,800 --> 01:04:33,560
But she said, I understand we're
probably not communicating like 

1038
01:04:33,560 --> 01:04:35,840
you want. 
And she goes, you know what, 

1039
01:04:35,840 --> 01:04:39,280
I'll talk to the boys and see 
what we want to do going 

1040
01:04:39,280 --> 01:04:40,920
forward. 
I would like to meet my 

1041
01:04:40,920 --> 01:04:44,240
siblings. 
I have brothers, you know, 

1042
01:04:44,240 --> 01:04:46,240
adopted brothers or however you 
want to call that. 

1043
01:04:46,240 --> 01:04:49,560
I got brothers, grew up with 
them, but again, they weren't 

1044
01:04:49,680 --> 01:04:54,960
biological full Blood Brothers. 
Did that give you some hope? 

1045
01:04:55,400 --> 01:04:58,720
Yeah, you know, a little bit 
like I, of course, I hurried up 

1046
01:04:58,720 --> 01:05:01,480
and called my cousin. 
He goes, that's a huge 

1047
01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:04,920
breakthrough, but he goes, let's
not hold our breath on it either

1048
01:05:04,920 --> 01:05:08,200
because we might be holding it 
for a while. 

1049
01:05:08,440 --> 01:05:12,360
But he goes, it's a huge step. 
I've had people tell me I should

1050
01:05:12,360 --> 01:05:14,440
just show up at the doorstep, I 
said. 

1051
01:05:14,440 --> 01:05:15,840
That's a little awkward. 
I'm not that. 

1052
01:05:15,840 --> 01:05:18,120
I'm not that outgoing of a 
person just to show up at 

1053
01:05:18,120 --> 01:05:21,080
someone's door. 
I keep going through the nuance 

1054
01:05:21,080 --> 01:05:26,800
of the fact that she stayed with
your birth father, you know, and

1055
01:05:27,560 --> 01:05:31,880
maybe there's, I mean, I don't 
know her, you know, but I, I 

1056
01:05:31,880 --> 01:05:34,040
imagine that there's some shame 
and. 

1057
01:05:34,440 --> 01:05:36,760
She says there's not. 
She told me that one e-mail that

1058
01:05:36,760 --> 01:05:40,200
there's no shame or guilt and 
she never felt connected to me. 

1059
01:05:42,680 --> 01:05:45,960
Those were when I got that, that
was a probably a year ago after 

1060
01:05:45,960 --> 01:05:48,920
I first reached out to her and I
told her who I was. 

1061
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:52,480
That kind of stung a little bit 
that, you know, no guilt, no 

1062
01:05:52,480 --> 01:05:53,920
shame. 
I never felt connected with you,

1063
01:05:55,720 --> 01:06:00,800
which you had to have that first
couple hours or however it 

1064
01:06:00,800 --> 01:06:03,880
happened. 
And the reason I pursued this 

1065
01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:06,800
more was, you know, sometimes 
when someone gives up a baby 

1066
01:06:06,800 --> 01:06:12,000
like that, it was due to some 
awful reason, like, you know, an

1067
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:14,800
assault or some kind of 
something like that. 

1068
01:06:16,040 --> 01:06:18,960
The reason I pursued it was she 
was still with my father, 

1069
01:06:19,600 --> 01:06:22,600
married and had kids, other 
ones. 

1070
01:06:24,040 --> 01:06:28,480
So they're put in my words, 
they're making it worse than it 

1071
01:06:28,480 --> 01:06:33,320
needs to be right now, so. 
Yeah, that's an interesting 

1072
01:06:33,320 --> 01:06:36,480
perspective because you are so 
open, makes you wonder what's 

1073
01:06:36,640 --> 01:06:42,440
maybe really going on there. 
What advice do you have for 

1074
01:06:42,440 --> 01:06:49,840
parents who are contacted by a 
child that they relinquished or 

1075
01:06:49,840 --> 01:06:54,080
abandoned in your case? 
I know it has to be shocking, 

1076
01:06:54,600 --> 01:06:58,320
but today's DNA home testing, 
you almost have to be waiting 

1077
01:06:58,320 --> 01:07:00,400
for it to happen. 
If you so did something like 

1078
01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:04,480
that, take a moment but don't 
lie about it. 

1079
01:07:05,040 --> 01:07:09,840
And then it's going to come 
about because like me, even I'm 

1080
01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:13,280
a little bit passive aggressive.
I was going to let people know 

1081
01:07:13,280 --> 01:07:16,760
what happened. 
I'm going to tell everyone it's 

1082
01:07:16,760 --> 01:07:18,080
not. 
I'm not going to keep the secret

1083
01:07:18,080 --> 01:07:20,160
anymore. 
She can, that's her own 

1084
01:07:20,160 --> 01:07:23,280
prerogative, but be honest with 
your family. 

1085
01:07:23,880 --> 01:07:27,840
If you have other children that 
don't know about this other 

1086
01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:30,920
child, you need to maybe tell 
them like you said, age 

1087
01:07:30,920 --> 01:07:33,760
appropriate. 
What advice do you have for 

1088
01:07:33,760 --> 01:07:38,960
someone who is embarking on a 
journey of figuring out who they

1089
01:07:38,960 --> 01:07:45,120
are using DNA or other research?
Keep digging and ask all the 

1090
01:07:45,120 --> 01:07:47,560
questions and don't take no for 
an answer. 

1091
01:07:47,560 --> 01:07:50,920
I I could have shut down two 
years ago after that first 

1092
01:07:50,920 --> 01:07:53,560
e-mail saying hey don't contact 
anyone. 

1093
01:07:54,640 --> 01:07:59,600
But then people told me, it's 
your story, you can tell it and 

1094
01:07:59,600 --> 01:08:01,440
tell it how you want it to be 
said. 

1095
01:08:02,520 --> 01:08:04,920
So that's why I've always been 
in the back of my mind is, yeah,

1096
01:08:04,920 --> 01:08:06,120
it's my story. 
I'll tell it. 

1097
01:08:06,120 --> 01:08:08,000
I'm part of it. 
There's a there's three people 

1098
01:08:08,000 --> 01:08:09,200
in this story and I'm one of 
them. 

1099
01:08:09,200 --> 01:08:11,560
And I'll be able to tell my 
story if I want to. 

1100
01:08:11,840 --> 01:08:16,399
The past is always present. 
That is so true, so true. 

1101
01:08:16,399 --> 01:08:18,880
Well said. 
James, thank you so much for 

1102
01:08:18,880 --> 01:08:22,720
joining me and sharing your 
story so generously today. 

1103
01:08:23,080 --> 01:08:28,399
I hope that you get more answers
and, you know, maybe that damn 

1104
01:08:28,399 --> 01:08:32,960
breaks a little bit more because
I can tell that you are so open 

1105
01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:36,920
and willing to connect even 
after all of this, and that's 

1106
01:08:36,920 --> 01:08:39,880
pretty remarkable. 
Thanks again to James for 

1107
01:08:39,880 --> 01:08:43,120
sharing his story. 
If you have Adna Surprise that 

1108
01:08:43,120 --> 01:08:46,200
you'd like to share, please 
submit your story at 

1109
01:08:46,200 --> 01:08:51,840
dnasurprises.com. 
We'll be back in 2026 with brand

1110
01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:56,160
new DNA Surprise stories. 
But before I sign off, I want to

1111
01:08:56,160 --> 01:09:00,319
thank you for listening. 
DNA surprises recently crossed 

1112
01:09:00,319 --> 01:09:05,640
1,000,000 downloads, something I
never imagined when I started 

1113
01:09:05,640 --> 01:09:08,000
this podcast nearly four years 
ago. 

1114
01:09:08,760 --> 01:09:13,800
Thank you for your reviews, your
Patreon support, your emails, 

1115
01:09:13,800 --> 01:09:17,800
and your messages. 
It all means so much. 

1116
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But most importantly, thank you,
thank you, thank you for 

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listening. 
I hope that this podcast has 

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been a place of support and 
education for you over the past 

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four years. 
I'll be back next year. 

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01:09:33,479 --> 01:09:37,319
Until next time. 
This episode of DNA Surprises 

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was hosted, produced and edited 
by me, Alexis Ourselt. 

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It was mixed and mastered by 
Josh Ourselt of Siren Recording 

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Studios.