1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:05,920 Hi there, and I just finished recording episode #298 with 2 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:08,400 Ethan Weber. I think you're really going to 3 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:13,000 enjoy this podcast. Ethan is a legend really. 4 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:16,400 You know, he's he's not only worked with the Stones for the 5 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:20,640 last 30 years as their lighting director, working with Patrick 6 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:26,520 Woodruff and team of course, but he's also done U2, both 360 and 7 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:28,720 the Sphere and a lot of other stuff in between. 8 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:34,360 But and a lot of lot of other shows and just a really super 9 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:40,360 nice guy, very interesting guy, smart and very likable. 10 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:44,000 So I hope you enjoy this podcast as much as I enjoyed recording 11 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:46,800 it. And as always, please like and 12 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:49,640 subscribe and share as much as possible. 13 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:52,400 You're helping us to grow this podcast to be something great. 14 00:00:52,400 --> 00:01:00,640 So thank you very much. Hello and thanks for joining me 15 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:04,319 today again on Geez of Gear episode #298. 16 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:08,280 Today's podcast is brought to you by Main Light, your go to 17 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:11,240 dry hire rental provider bringing you the latest in 18 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:13,840 lighting and stage equipment for moving lights and control 19 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:18,560 consoles to Truss LE DS and rugged IP65 rated fixtures built 20 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:21,560 for outdoor venues. 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Hello, hello, hello, hello. 52 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:16,720 So bit about AI, have you been paying attention to these price 53 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:20,120 and sort of technology wars that are happening right now? 54 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:25,600 You know, basically there's this company out of China called 55 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:29,880 DeepSeek, who I think have been around for a couple of years. 56 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:32,360 I think, you know, building their technology, which has 57 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:37,960 taken some time, but they just launched in a big way in I 58 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:41,880 believe it's around mid-december last year perhaps. 59 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:50,280 And they launched at, as I recall, 127th of the price of 60 00:04:50,280 --> 00:04:56,360 competitive services, including ChatGPT and but with much 61 00:04:56,360 --> 00:05:00,560 better, a better model overall and lighter weight too. 62 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:04,760 So it used a lot less compute, which translated into the lower 63 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:09,200 costs as well. Caught everyone by surprise, you 64 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:11,200 know, especially their competitors, I think caught them 65 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:14,360 with their pants down a little bit because it was that much 66 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:17,840 cheaper and that much more powerful and really just took 67 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,760 the AI world, you know, by storm. 68 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:27,320 And so problematic a bit because it is a Chinese company, Chinese 69 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:31,120 AI company, which means they basically earn their living on 70 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:34,600 taking your data and building these large language models from 71 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:37,680 your data. And so there's all kinds of 72 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:42,680 issues there or concerns. And also there's some question 73 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:48,360 on how they got the the kit from NVIDIA, because there are laws 74 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:51,800 against NVIDIA or you know, blocks on them being able to 75 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:55,760 sell their products into China. And so they were buying it I 76 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:57,320 think through Singapore or something. 77 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:00,360 So anyways, great model I have used it. 78 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:04,840 It's it's fast, it's excellent. It's very, it uses this thing 79 00:06:04,840 --> 00:06:09,320 called reasoning, which the cool thing about it is while like you 80 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:12,280 can ask it a really deep question and then watch it 81 00:06:12,280 --> 00:06:15,560 figuring that question out, it'll say the user's asking for 82 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:17,160 this. So I need to go back and look 83 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:19,480 for some of this and I need to look at more of this. 84 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:23,480 And like it shows you their entire sort of strategy and 85 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,360 their reasoning on coming up with that answer or those 86 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:28,400 answers. So it really tells you the 87 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:32,520 foundation and where those answers are coming from, which 88 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,200 is really, really cool. And it's just a very good model. 89 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:38,800 It it works very well, it's fast, it's again, very 90 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:40,520 inexpensive compared to other models. 91 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:50,920 So probably a week later, Open AI who own ChatGPT launches O3 92 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:55,840 and O3 Mini, which are their latest versions and O3 Mini 93 00:06:56,440 --> 00:07:03,120 claimed by Open AI to be better than Deep seeks R1 and at 94 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:05,520 similar pricing. Unfortunately, from what I hear 95 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:07,160 anyways, it's not similar pricing. 96 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:10,000 It's still much higher, but a lot lower than where they were 97 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:15,360 with their four O model. So basically Open AI claimed to 98 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:20,640 leapfrog over top of DeepSeek. It's certainly dampened a lot of 99 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:24,840 the noise because basically when DeepSeek launched again, because 100 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:32,240 they used a lot less of these NVIDIA boards or NVIDIA pieces, 101 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:37,960 it NVIDIA stock tanked like it caused NVIDIA to lose. 102 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:41,240 I can't remember, I own NVIDIA stock, but it was like, I don't 103 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:44,120 remember 20 percent, 15% in one day. 104 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:50,760 And so, you know, that's again the big reason why their why 105 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:56,120 their price was so low. So anyways, a week after after 106 00:07:56,120 --> 00:08:01,680 open AI launched their model, which again really rattled the 107 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:05,120 industry in the market and it really sort of tamed down all 108 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:09,280 the deep sick noise. Elon launches his new Grok 3 109 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:12,360 model And prior to Grok 3, I don't think very many people 110 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:17,400 were paying attention to Grok. I was I was using it for 111 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,200 especially for writing. I just found it to be a little 112 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:24,880 less boring, it less dry than Chat GPTA little more fun. 113 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:28,800 And so but people really weren't using it. 114 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:31,640 Most people were using ChatGPT and then a lot of people were 115 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:35,400 using DeepSeek and ChatGPT. And all of a sudden Grok 3 comes 116 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:39,320 out and it's better than DeepSeek and at a very, very 117 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:44,800 comparable price to DeepSeek. And suddenly Grok 3 is a player 118 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:47,240 and a major player. Like they're just taking over 119 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:50,880 all kinds of things. And so a week after that, 120 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:57,760 suddenly Clod Anthropic, a Clod comes out and claims to jump 121 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:01,720 over Grok 3, which I don't know and I'm still using Grok 3. 122 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:03,520 So I don't know if Clod is better. 123 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:08,160 I haven't tried it yet. And so it's just been this 124 00:09:08,560 --> 00:09:11,160 battle, and I mean, we're talking about companies that are 125 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:14,560 in investing 10s of billions of dollars in building these 126 00:09:14,560 --> 00:09:17,120 models, not small amounts of money. 127 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:19,520 And they're just popping them out like popcorn right now. 128 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:24,240 So it, it's a pretty wild time in, in the AI world right now. 129 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:30,000 And Speaking of Grok, I, I found a, a pretty cool story about a 130 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:36,440 guy, a developer, 1 developer who created a video game using 131 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:40,320 entirely Grok, entire Grok created the entire game in less 132 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:43,960 than 3 hours. The server code was written 133 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:51,280 entirely by Grok and and then they basically the guy put this 134 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:57,520 out to the market and he made $20,000, almost $20,000 in about 135 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:01,560 a week in revenue on this product that was entirely 136 00:10:01,560 --> 00:10:06,320 created by AI. So to me, what this shows is 137 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:12,640 sort of this transformative potential in creative industries 138 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,840 for AI and ours being one of those industries. 139 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:20,160 And so I know our industry hates AI. 140 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:22,960 We love to talk about how it's going to cause the demise of 141 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:24,960 everyone's jobs and all of these things. 142 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:28,280 But I think if we can look at it from another direction, so this 143 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:34,200 guy was a game developer and he entirely used AI to make $20,000 144 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:38,760 in a week. So if you look at it where let's 145 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:41,480 say the show that you were going to program was going to take 146 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:44,200 you, you know, 4 weeks to program or three weeks to 147 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:47,280 program or whatever. And now you could do that in a 148 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:50,640 day or two because AI is doing much of the heavy lifting for 149 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:54,240 you and you're just pushing AI to do the things that you want 150 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:58,840 it to do. It's an interesting thought, but 151 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:02,640 also I like the idea that it really does sort of lower the 152 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:09,720 barrier that sort of enables this, this wave of innovation. 153 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:12,920 And I think there's an opportunity that we are going to 154 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:16,160 see products created by AI. We're going to see tech created 155 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:20,000 by AI, excuse me, directly in our industry. 156 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:25,320 And that's exciting to me. So more to come, but that's my 157 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:27,800 take, my hot take for today on AI. 158 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:34,480 I'm out of water, so today's guest Ethan Weber is a renowned 159 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:37,680 lighting designer and director best known for his decades long 160 00:11:37,680 --> 00:11:41,880 work with the Stones and an extensive career spanning U2, 161 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:44,720 John Mayer, Green Day, Pink and many more. 162 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:49,560 Pardon me. Starting at C Factory in 1984, 163 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:57,480 Ethan joined the Stones in 1994 on the Voodoo Lounge tour, 164 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:01,760 evolving into a key creative force behind those legendary 165 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:07,360 shows for geez, 30 years now. With a work hard, ego free 166 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:12,680 approach, Ethan blends technical expertise with artistic vision, 167 00:12:12,680 --> 00:12:15,240 shaping some of the world's biggest tours. 168 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:19,080 Passionate about giving back, he supports Doctors Without Borders 169 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:21,400 and other charities. His motto? 170 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:24,680 Never half ass anything. I like it. 171 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:29,920 Please welcome Ethan Weber. Ethan Weber, How are you? 172 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:31,360 I'm. Great. 173 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:33,880 How are you, Marcel? I'm doing well, thanks. 174 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:37,400 Good to see you. Thank you too. 175 00:12:37,560 --> 00:12:40,520 You you've had a busy, busy couple of years. 176 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:44,200 Like who knew that you know 80 year old artists could keep you 177 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:46,400 busy? Yeah. 178 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:51,040 I mean, we, we said I think 90. I started with Keith in 92 or 179 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:53,800 9394. After that tour, we said, oh, 180 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:58,240 this has got to be the last one. And, you know, 30 years later, 181 00:12:58,560 --> 00:13:00,840 we're still saying, is this it or is this not? 182 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:02,800 Yeah. That's wild, isn't it? 183 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:06,320 It's wild like you. You and Cosmo seem to just be 184 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:09,120 kind of hanging on to the to that, you know? 185 00:13:09,560 --> 00:13:11,880 Yeah, Like, please stay healthy. Please. 186 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:16,480 You know, Cosmos got ACDC again this year, which is which is 187 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:17,840 incredible. You know? 188 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:22,400 I mean, I remember when I unwrapped the Back in Black 189 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:26,160 album thinking, you know, these guys will be cool for the next 5 190 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:28,080 or 10 years, right? Like, who knew? 191 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:31,200 You know, this was this was probably 1980 or something. 192 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:34,440 But but yeah, the Stones just blow my mind. 193 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:37,800 We were just talking about it before we started recording, but 194 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:43,200 mix just his commitment overall to to fitness and I don't know 195 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:45,200 about health, but probably health and. 196 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,280 Yeah, everything all. Of that, it's just mind blowing, 197 00:13:48,560 --> 00:13:53,000 you know, And you were saying he doesn't even have any arthritis. 198 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:57,440 No, no arthritis seems to what? Is he now 82, right? 199 00:13:58,680 --> 00:14:00,280 81 or 82? I'm not sure. 200 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:01,920 I think probably 81. Yeah. 201 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:04,160 And Keith, Keith as well, you know, they're all amazing. 202 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:08,720 Just yeah, I think it's safe to say we'll we'll never see 203 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:10,920 anything like it again, probably. 204 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,920 I can't imagine, although you know, I'm a huge hockey fan and 205 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:17,520 and football fan and these people just keep getting older 206 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:21,400 and older because of just advancements in in health and 207 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:25,480 fitness and and medicine and all of the things that, you know, 208 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:31,040 create longevity. So, so, you know, I obviously 209 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:35,840 love to start way early in one's career, especially Someone Like 210 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,440 You who's done so many interesting and incredible 211 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:40,360 things and you've done it for a while. 212 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:45,920 And you know, there's usually sort of a, a common thread among 213 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:50,600 some of the great designers and, and creatives in our industry. 214 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:58,120 And it either starts as a musician or a DJ or just some 215 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:01,280 fluky moment. But it generally wasn't, you 216 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:05,720 know, a more official or conventional type of training or 217 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:08,520 schooling. So what was your excuse? 218 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:12,360 I mean, I, I think, I think those of us who started kind of 219 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:16,080 earlier on, it was more a case of just falling into it. 220 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:23,280 I was I was AI was a production manager at my my school, my 221 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:27,720 college, following in the footsteps of Abby Rosenholmes. 222 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:33,600 And I was playing in in a shitty little punk rock band and we 223 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:38,400 moved to New York after graduation and and called up I 224 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:41,760 needed a job. Called up Abby, she said come in 225 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:45,880 to see Factor and that was it. And then kind of gave up my 226 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:49,880 musical career because it was a lot more fun to go on tour. 227 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:54,640 Yeah, well, plus he were probably making a little bit 228 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:58,240 more money too, which. This was C, This was C factor 229 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:02,880 which was probably $4.00 an hour and I think 200 two $100 a week. 230 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:05,600 Yeah, yeah, that's funny. Yeah. 231 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:09,280 So playing in a punk rock band might have been more lucrative 232 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:11,720 than working for Bob. Yeah. 233 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:16,360 But you know what though it it, it still blows my mind how many 234 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:20,240 amazing people came through C Factor like Bob was. 235 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:23,640 Bob was a breeding ground for for a lot of really great people 236 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,640 in our industry. Yeah, he, you know, he taught us 237 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:28,560 to do things hopefully the right way. 238 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:32,440 And he was a, a merciless taskmaster. 239 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:35,560 You know, they, they call, we used to call him the Miracle 240 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:38,600 Minute. It'd be 12:00 at night. 241 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:41,520 You've been working since 9:10 AM. 242 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:45,400 And he'd come down and want to rearrange the shop and clean, 243 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:50,560 clean up the shop. And it was, I don't know, he 244 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:54,400 made us, he made us all all a bit tougher, I think, because of 245 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:58,160 this. Yeah, it wasn't easy, but but it 246 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:02,000 it probably played because I mean the longevity of so many of 247 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,640 the people that came through there and the quality of the 248 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:08,440 people that came through there. Obviously sometimes, you know, 249 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:13,040 that sort of militant training is, is helpful, I guess to 250 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:17,079 creating strong people. So yeah. 251 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:21,040 So you you how old were you when you started at C Factor? 252 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:24,359 I must have been. I think I was 24. 253 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,200 Oh, OK. It would have been September 254 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,840 1984, I think. So I was kind of towards the 255 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:34,280 tail end of the the glory days. Yeah, yeah. 256 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:38,960 But still significant. And so how long did how long did 257 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:41,800 you stay there? Was there 9 or 10 years? 258 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:45,720 Wow, that's a run. Yeah. 259 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:49,560 So I probably it's kind of like dog ears like 9 or 10 years. 260 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:52,680 There is probably like 60 years anywhere else I think. 261 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:55,080 It's kind of true. Yeah, it's kind of true. 262 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:59,920 You know, though I, I think of all the moving light salespeople 263 00:17:59,920 --> 00:18:03,840 back in the 90s, I was probably one of the few who really, 264 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:07,080 really liked Bob. Like, I just, Bob and I had a 265 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:10,360 special relationship where he'd call me on a Sunday night at 266 00:18:10,360 --> 00:18:14,720 8:00 and I'd hang up the phone at 10, you know, And it wasn't 267 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:19,800 anything about necessarily even buying or selling or, or pricing 268 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:24,040 on lights or anything like that. It was either industry talks or 269 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:28,360 just talks on life or, or things, you know, that were 270 00:18:28,360 --> 00:18:32,200 going wrong in his life or in his work or whatever or mine. 271 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:34,400 It was just a special friendship. 272 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:35,880 Yeah. You know. 273 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:38,160 Different. One of the rare, rare few, I 274 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,800 think. But you know, I used to, there 275 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:46,040 was a period when I left where I'd go back to, I'd run into him 276 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:47,560 somewhere and he wouldn't even talk to me. 277 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:49,040 He wouldn't shake my hand anything. 278 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:53,080 And really, and I, I was talking to Michael Ahern and who was 279 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:55,400 best friends with him. Michael used to be the Stones 280 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,000 production manager for years. And Michael said, you know, he 281 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:00,480 said, you guys are like our kids. 282 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:04,040 He said when you leave the home, we're, we're, we're hurt by it. 283 00:19:04,120 --> 00:19:08,720 And eventually, you know, that eventually I'd go to New York, 284 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,360 I'd call a Bob and we'd always go out and have lunch and we'd 285 00:19:11,360 --> 00:19:14,400 sit there for, you know, 4 hours, same thing, just 286 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:16,120 chatting. And it was great to see them 287 00:19:16,120 --> 00:19:17,560 and. Yeah. 288 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:23,360 And interesting about. 12 Diet Cokes later, yeah, yeah, yeah, 289 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:28,040 yeah no, I, I definitely, he was one of the guys that I, I was 290 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:32,080 sad when he left and and I miss him still in some weird way, you 291 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:34,720 know, just because, you know, I love the characters of our 292 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:37,520 industry. I don't like, you know, I don't 293 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:41,600 necessarily love all the business people or the even some 294 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,560 of the private equity guys and all this stuff that are behind 295 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:48,160 it now, but but I love the characters and there's still a 296 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,520 few left, not as many as there used to be, at least on that 297 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:54,400 side of things on the vendor side, but you're. 298 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:57,120 Right. It is dwindling, but I mean, 299 00:19:57,120 --> 00:20:00,920 that's that's the reason half of us not necessarily got in the 300 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,800 business, but stayed in the business because everybody was, 301 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,360 you know, everybody was a bunch of misfits who somehow figured 302 00:20:07,360 --> 00:20:09,760 out ways to make it work and. Right. 303 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:15,480 And be be successful and yeah, interesting people to hang out 304 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:17,760 with and chat with. Yeah. 305 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:21,960 So when you started at C Factor where you just like a shop guy 306 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:24,840 wrapping cable and and pushing Rd. cases around? 307 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:26,920 Or did you immediately go out and start touring? 308 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:31,800 Well, back back then, you would, yeah. 309 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:34,360 You'd start off in the shop. I think I was in the shop for 310 00:20:34,360 --> 00:20:36,600 maybe a month. Yeah. 311 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,640 And then and then they ship you out and that's it. 312 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:42,760 Once you're out, you're out there wasn't I think your. 313 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:47,600 First tour. I went out and replaced somebody 314 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:52,920 on Rush for a few weeks and then I can't remember what from 315 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:56,560 there, but I did a bunch of Rush tours, Neil Diamond tours and 316 00:20:57,440 --> 00:20:59,800 yeah. How? 317 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:02,920 How was how was the indoctrination into touring 318 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:05,280 working under Mr. Ungerleider it? 319 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:09,160 Was I love Howard? Me too. 320 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:14,400 He had his own way. And yeah, hard to describe, but 321 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:15,840 it was it was great. Yeah. 322 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:20,080 Yeah, yeah. Now he's he's to this day, he's 323 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:23,160 still a, you know, great friend and a really fun dude. 324 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:27,080 Like just a great guy to, to just sit around and goof around 325 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,760 with and drink Bloody Marys with or Caesars. 326 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:32,720 Depends if you're in Canada or the US. 327 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:36,080 But yeah. So that's a good way to start on 328 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,480 Rush. And by then they were pretty big 329 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:41,600 too. Yeah, I think my my first load 330 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:45,160 in the somebody had to go home. There was a death in the family 331 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:47,040 or something. So my first load in they said, 332 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:50,360 they said I was in the shop. They said go pack your bags and 333 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,560 and and go to Madison Square Garden. 334 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:57,240 So here I am, some little kid walking in right in the middle 335 00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,920 of the of a big rush sold out rush show at Madison Square 336 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:02,480 Garden. That kind of opened your eyes a 337 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:04,680 little bit. No kidding. 338 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:07,000 Yeah. Your friends must have been a 339 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,000 little bit jealous at the time, you know? 340 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:16,760 Yeah. So, you know, what are some of 341 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,000 the other? Like I said, so many great 342 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,760 people went through C Factor, but I don't know the timing of 343 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:24,440 it all. Like, you know, to be perfectly 344 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:28,360 honest, I forgot all about Abby being at C factor. 345 00:22:28,360 --> 00:22:32,320 I completely spaced on that. But who else was around when you 346 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:34,080 were there that's still like out there today? 347 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:39,280 Well, how many? Well, Michael Weiss is one of 348 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,880 the, yeah, probably more well known ones. 349 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:46,360 He was, he's now production managing. 350 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:52,600 So Abby was there. Jack Funk, who was doing 351 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:58,160 Dashboard Confessional for years, Eddie Mutiko, Eddie Duda. 352 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:02,640 Oh my, mine wasn't there yet. Right. 353 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:04,080 Was that after? He he was there. 354 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,920 He was there towards the end of my stint there. 355 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:08,800 Right. And probably same with Craig 356 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:12,240 Caserta. Yeah, Craig was was towards the 357 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:15,440 end of, not just after. And Looney. 358 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:21,120 Looney was there briefly. Yeah, so they were all. 359 00:23:21,120 --> 00:23:24,440 Sort of later, yeah. They were all later in the 80s 360 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,240 and stuff. No, just a a great breeding 361 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:31,720 ground like them and and maybe upstaging and obviously 362 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:33,120 verilite. A lot of people came through 363 00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:40,280 verilite, But so you connected with the stones pretty early, 364 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:42,480 right? Oh, 94, I think you. 365 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:45,200 Said 92. I started with Keith. 366 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,480 So this all, you know, the whole, not only was Bob a great 367 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:53,640 teacher, but back then he, he had pretty wide range of, of, of 368 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:59,920 clients or tours. So I met Michael Ahern pretty 369 00:23:59,920 --> 00:24:07,120 early on and we met Dave Russell and Al Santos and Patrick 370 00:24:07,120 --> 00:24:17,080 Woodruff and you know, and so Michael Ahern, we were fairly 371 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:21,520 close and I saw that Keith Richards tour was coming up and 372 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:23,000 I knew Michael was probably involved. 373 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:27,040 So I called him up and and started off as a crew chief and 374 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:31,360 then they fired the LD and I took over from that and then 375 00:24:31,360 --> 00:24:33,480 that led ended up all the Stones things. 376 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,640 Wow, Yeah, that's incredible. Yeah. 377 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:41,400 So when was that? What caused you to leave C 378 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,760 factor going with the stones or how did that all go down? 379 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,040 No, it was just, it was time. It just you know. 380 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:54,880 Make it making $300.00 a week working 100 hours and and the. 381 00:24:55,840 --> 00:25:00,880 Young man's job, Yeah. Yeah, and I, I've never minded 382 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,600 the hours. I love the hours, but at some 383 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,040 point you've, you've kind of started making a little bit, a 384 00:25:06,120 --> 00:25:08,440 little bit of money living, living in New York. 385 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,520 City get it? Yeah, I get it, I get it. 386 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:19,520 So, you know, I hate to dwell on the stones, but I'm, I'm always 387 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:23,480 curious, you know, you, you when you started with the stones, 388 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:25,840 they were obviously still in arenas and stuff, right? 389 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,000 Or or had they already been? Stadiums. 390 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,400 Stadiums, yeah. And I started off as I started 391 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:39,240 off as a crew chief this patch. One of the consoles he was he 392 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:44,840 was using Dave Hill was was the director using the, you know, 393 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,160 the bearer light console, whatever it was called? 394 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:49,640 Yeah, I think it was pre virtual. 395 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:51,040 Before the virtuoso. Yeah, yeah. 396 00:25:51,120 --> 00:25:55,880 Pre virtual and then he was there was he was using a 397 00:25:55,880 --> 00:26:02,640 Telescan desk and also the Hog 1 and I was an APO guy. 398 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:09,120 So Patrick said well, you know, I want you on the tour because 399 00:26:09,120 --> 00:26:12,160 of my relationship with Keith and his manager, I think and 400 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,960 said what about doing the crew chief chiefing job? 401 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:17,760 I said, you know, I don't I'll do anything. 402 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:19,520 I just want to do the songs. So yes. 403 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,360 Right, right. And then, yeah. 404 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,200 So then after, you know, yeah, then there was a progression of 405 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:31,920 tours and Dave kind of retired to be Stay home and and Sparky, 406 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,320 Mark Risk and I Sparky was running the Icon console and I 407 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:41,440 was running an A bow out there. And then eventually after a tour 408 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:45,400 or two of that, we went down to 1 council and Patrick had 409 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:50,040 offered it to Peso. So that's, that's an interesting 410 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:53,480 relationship and very long one too between you and Patrick. 411 00:26:54,120 --> 00:26:55,280 Yeah. What? 412 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:59,120 What's that dynamic like, you know, as far as designer, 413 00:26:59,120 --> 00:27:03,560 director, you know, do you have a lot of input on the design? 414 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:10,080 I would assume so. Generally, I mean, Patrick is 415 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,280 more of the the overall show designer now, production 416 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,600 designer, right? Terry, Terry Cook from his 417 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:20,160 office will work with Patrick and they'll come up with the 418 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,960 concept and the lights and, you know, then they'll send out a 419 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,160 they'll send a plot around. And I mean, because of my 420 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,400 history with the band, I know there's certain things that I 421 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:35,880 feel are really important and just for my own well-being out 422 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:37,400 there. Yeah. 423 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:41,360 The the, you know, the the one comment that has had over the 424 00:27:41,360 --> 00:27:43,200 last few years is he's having trouble. 425 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:45,560 Can't see, see the audience as well. 426 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:49,480 So the the mobile lights and audience like that's something I 427 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,880 usually kind of. Yeah. 428 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,080 That's important to fight for, but it's really. 429 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,000 Yeah. And that's the one, the one note 430 00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:01,120 I'll I'll get because, you know, he's got, well, now he's got 431 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:07,800 four of the new, you know, Roby spotlights in his eyes. 432 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,960 So yeah, of course he's going to have trouble seeing. 433 00:28:11,360 --> 00:28:13,800 But so you know what? We'll talk about the design, 434 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:17,680 some of it to listen to me, some, you know, but generally, 435 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,840 generally, you know, Terry, really between Terry and 436 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:22,080 Patrick, they really get it right. 437 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:29,800 And then once we get out to, to programming, you know, I have, I 438 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:33,000 have a lot of leeway in that, but Terry and I'll sit, sit and 439 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:34,840 program. He doesn't necessarily tell me 440 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:36,640 what to do, but we talk about it. 441 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,400 There's a, there's a lot of creative freedom in there. 442 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:44,440 And then once we're out on tour, it's all me and Petricho. 443 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,400 Petricho come in and he'll, he'll make some notes and all. 444 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:51,760 But like I said, he's generally more involved in the overall and 445 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:55,440 the and the video content now 'cause I think by now he trusts 446 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:59,080 us to, Yeah. Yeah, I would. 447 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:01,000 I would guess so. 30 years. Kind of helps. 448 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:06,240 You some yeah, it buys you some respect that just that kind of 449 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:10,600 dynamic like when you've got, you know, sort of hands off 450 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:15,320 designers and then you've got programmer director on the other 451 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:19,680 side, you know, like Peter Morse's team usually or or 452 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:23,040 Patrick or some of these designers who don't really get 453 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,440 on the console anymore or maybe never did in in some of their 454 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:28,440 cases. It's always an interesting 455 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:32,520 dynamic because I think it would be very easy to sort of overstep 456 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:37,480 right like to to, you know, step on somebody's ego or whatever 457 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:41,160 you want to call it. And so I've always been curious 458 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:46,720 to, you know, the different sort of versions of that dynamic, 459 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:51,520 that relationship. Yeah, I mean Patrick's, Oh, he's 460 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,880 he's great. He's amazing as is, as is Terry. 461 00:29:54,880 --> 00:30:02,560 You know, they let you, I don't know, they, they definitely let 462 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:07,240 you have free reign over a lot of, a lot of things. 463 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:08,840 You know, they'll make certain comments. 464 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,680 My, my running joke with Terry is he'll suggest something. 465 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,240 I'm like, and I'll say, Terry, you know, I'm just going to 466 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:15,520 change it when you're gone anyway. 467 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:17,120 So we might as well do it my way. 468 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:20,840 And it's kind of a running joke. But you know, it's also nice 469 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,040 because most the stuff that I design, I like programming my 470 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:29,880 own shows because to me it's the whole process and, and I enjoy 471 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:34,600 the programming part, but it's nice when I do my own stuff. 472 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,120 It's all solitary and it's it's nice to have somebody there to 473 00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,880 bounce ideas off of. Right, right. 474 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,440 You know, I always say like. That does Patrick ever come out 475 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,640 to a show like, you know, a little bit down the line on the 476 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,480 tour and and say, Ethan, what the hell did you do? 477 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:52,240 You know this isn't what we talked. 478 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:58,600 About no, I think there was no. There was one one song we did 479 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:03,280 years ago where I had this whatever my idea for for the 480 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:07,760 chorus and and we ran at the first show and that one of his 481 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:09,960 notes was like, you know, what was that? 482 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:11,680 And I said, yeah, you know, This is why I did. 483 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:13,600 He said, I get it, but you know, I'm not. 484 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:18,800 Patrick is always very, he's polite and always very positive. 485 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,800 So it's never what did what did what the hell did you just do? 486 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,840 It was yeah, I got it. But, you know, let's take a 487 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,280 season else. He's also quite humble, like I, 488 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:33,960 you know, one time I was in the UK, this is probably, I don't 489 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,240 know, 20 years ago, maybe more than 20 years ago. 490 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:43,440 And I went with my now ex-wife who worked for a record company. 491 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:47,600 And I was going with her 'cause she had done a contest with 492 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:52,320 Coldplay and they were playing it at their old college or 493 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:57,280 whatever, Oxford I think it was. And, and they were playing in 494 00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,040 the, in the schoolyard basically. 495 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:03,280 So, you know, they just set up fences and barricades and stuff 496 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,480 around this schoolyard and, and sold a bunch of tickets. 497 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,080 And I don't know, I think it was 40,000 people or something in 498 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:13,600 this school field for Coldplay. And she flew over with a bunch 499 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:19,640 of contest winners. And and so I was walking, I 500 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,920 think because I was kind of bored doing her record things, 501 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:26,320 so she gave me a laminate and I went out and talked with the 502 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,640 production people and stuff at front of house. 503 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:32,280 And, and I was walking back and I see Patrick sitting on a 504 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:36,760 blanket with his family, you know, snacking on carrots or 505 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,680 something. And I said, Patrick and he goes, 506 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,520 oh, Marcel, how you doing mate? And I said, I'm good. 507 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:44,360 You know what? What are you doing here on a 508 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,000 blanket? And he says, I'm just a punter, 509 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:49,120 you know, I'm, I'm just watching the show. 510 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:52,880 I love Coldplay. And I said, well, you don't have 511 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:54,840 credentials. And he said no, no, we bought 512 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,840 tickets. And I said, hang on a second. 513 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:02,240 So I just went back and talked to somebody and got like 4 silk 514 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,120 passes for him or something, you know? 515 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:08,800 And just said come on, you know? And so, but he was just so 516 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:10,520 humble about it. Like, it's incredible. 517 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:13,800 Yeah, he's great and he'll talk to anybody. 518 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,760 And you know, it's not talking about himself. 519 00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:21,320 He's generally interested and other people and what they have 520 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,600 to say and. Right, Yeah, that's cool. 521 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:28,280 He's he's definitely a legend. He is a legend, Mr. Woodruff. 522 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:35,680 So other other acts that are notable that you've worked with, 523 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,920 I'm seeing kind of a list here. Obviously you too. 524 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:43,280 I'm aware of that one. But tell me a little bit about 525 00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:45,520 that, I guess. Were you involved in the sphere 526 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:47,320 as well? Yes. 527 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:49,680 Yeah. Cool. 528 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,720 I was very cool. The sphere was obviously 529 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:57,880 Willie's genius and and then Alex Murphy. 530 00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:05,200 So I'd done 360 with Willie and Alex and then Alex was calling 531 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,600 spots and running smoke, etcetera. 532 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:12,360 And and this tour, this tour I did all the OR the sphere. 533 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,800 I did all the key lighting. Yeah. 534 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,880 For with it. Yeah, interesting. 535 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:20,360 Was that like one of the weirder gig you've ever done? 536 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:25,040 It was interesting, you know, because we that was the first 537 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:28,280 show in there. So while we're rehearsing, we 538 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,400 had two months in there while they're still building the place 539 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:33,679 and and trying to do their movie. 540 00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:38,280 It was it was an amazing experience. 541 00:34:38,679 --> 00:34:41,480 I mean, all the way around work, working with Willie is always, 542 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,639 always great. You know, he's, he's a very, 543 00:34:44,639 --> 00:34:49,320 very clever man and some of the stuff he does is, it's amazing. 544 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,800 Well, watching some of that video content coming together 545 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:56,040 too had to be had to be fun, you know, just because it's just 546 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:57,920 like as long as you've been doing this and as many 547 00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,640 incredible, huge, massive, wonderful shows you've done, 548 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:02,520 there's just nothing like the sphere. 549 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:04,480 It's it's a one off, you know, Yeah. 550 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:10,480 Yeah, and I, and we knew we went for a, a demo at the, the little 551 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:15,160 Mini sphere in Burbank, right? I had some of the content and 552 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,640 we're sitting there and they started running the content. 553 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:21,000 And even though it was whatever the scale was like, wow, this is 554 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:25,520 going to be amazing. And it was after after 40 shows 555 00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:29,000 and however many rehearsals I never ever got tired of. 556 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,080 Really. Of anything about the show, 557 00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:36,720 yeah, always look, look forward to it and just really enjoyed 558 00:35:36,720 --> 00:35:40,320 it. Yeah, I had Jake, Jake on and we 559 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:42,960 talked about it for a while. And you know, one of my things 560 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:48,560 I'm, I'm now granted, I didn't see it, but like when I saw a 561 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:52,320 video of the U2 shows, one of the problems I was having is 562 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:58,200 because the video is so insane. I had a hard time finding Bono. 563 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:01,120 Yeah, like I couldn't find the band. 564 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:04,240 I'm watching YouTube videos going sounds amazing. 565 00:36:04,240 --> 00:36:06,360 The video's incredible, but where's the band? 566 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:10,800 Like, I can't find the band. And of course, that's nothing 567 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:12,720 about the lighting at all. That's just what, Yeah. 568 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,280 Thanks. Just to show me down the river, 569 00:36:16,240 --> 00:36:17,800 yeah. No, but that's what you get with 570 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:20,800 the sphere that you can't, you can't compete with the video 571 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,520 obviously. You just can't forget it so. 572 00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,080 I always, I always said you, you should see a show. 573 00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:30,800 Sorry, you should see a the show twice, once you, you watch the 574 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,880 video and then the second time you look at the true Yeah. 575 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,960 You know, the, the best seats in the house I think are, are like 576 00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:40,640 the, the 300 level back behind us, 'cause you get the whole 577 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,280 view. I went and saw the Eagles there. 578 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:47,040 OK. I, I think was, was spent during 579 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:49,040 LDI weekend. Yeah. 580 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:52,040 And, and we were sitting down lower and it was interesting 581 00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:55,480 'cause it was a, a different perspective from from where I 582 00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:59,960 watched the show for, you know, however many months, 'cause 583 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:04,440 lower the Pam was more of a presence, 'cause they're right 584 00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:06,560 in front of me, obviously, right. 585 00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:11,000 So maybe, maybe the idea as you see it twice, once from from 586 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:14,560 midway up and once from from down close. 587 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:17,040 Right. Yeah, No, that makes sense. 588 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,960 Well, and I think it's also like, again, the Eagles is 589 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:24,760 another one that I just, you know, I love the Eagles, but I'd 590 00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:28,240 rather see them in a theatre or something than than in the 591 00:37:28,240 --> 00:37:32,840 sphere. Whereas like fish or or that 592 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:36,040 Grateful Dead thing you'd rather see in the sphere, you know, 593 00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:39,240 because they're very visual. Pink Floyd would be amazing in 594 00:37:39,240 --> 00:37:40,280 the. Sphere, obviously. 595 00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:43,600 Incredible. Hopefully that happens, like 596 00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:46,400 hopefully somebody's throwing bazillions of dollars. 597 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:50,160 Around to get their Floyd, Yeah. Yeah, that'd be fun. 598 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:55,400 You know, I mean, one of the one of the brilliant things Willie 599 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,400 did was there was, was the section in the middle where they 600 00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:00,280 would change. That was one part of the setlist 601 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:01,880 that would change from night to night. 602 00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:06,320 And you know, it turned into here's the band. 603 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:11,600 It's about the band and about the stage, which, you know, had 604 00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:15,160 the algorithm that color that it picked its own color. 605 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:19,920 So there was really minimal stuff on the on the screen then. 606 00:38:20,240 --> 00:38:24,200 So at least it was that moment of in the middle where, all 607 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:27,120 right, here's the band stop looking at the screen. 608 00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:32,480 Yeah, yeah. So obviously you 2 and and and 609 00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:37,360 stones, you know, being massive where you were director 610 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:41,360 programmer, but what about some of the what what about some of 611 00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:46,600 the design tours that you've done like notable stuff? 612 00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:52,720 Well, I, I did a few tours with designing Green Day, semi 613 00:38:52,720 --> 00:38:56,400 chemical romance stuff. I spent eight years or so with 614 00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:58,720 Lou Reed. I did some Bob Dylan. 615 00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:05,000 I had a, a decent little design thing going. 616 00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:08,200 And then, you know, I always say, well, I'm not sure if the 617 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:10,560 stones was the best thing that happened to me or the worst 618 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:14,000 thing 'cause I always made myself available for it. 619 00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:15,880 But I don't, you know, I wouldn't change a thing. 620 00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:19,880 It's been amazing. And of course, I'm not one who 621 00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:24,480 really dwells on titles like I don't, I don't care if you know 622 00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:28,400 I, I know my part in it. I know that whatever it is, a 623 00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:32,120 large part of the visuals, you know, Hopefully I've had some 624 00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:35,160 something to do with it. Huge, huge, yeah. 625 00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:37,280 Hopefully. Well, I mean, who wouldn't want 626 00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:40,600 to be sitting at the desk every night when, you know, stadium 627 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:44,400 lights go down And, yeah, it's amazing, you know, start me up 628 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,080 or whatever it is that they start with. 629 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:49,720 You know, it's like, whoa, it's going to be cool every single 630 00:39:49,720 --> 00:39:52,840 time. I always say like my kids, my 631 00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:56,480 kids are 1212 and 14 and they've seen a bunch of stone shows and 632 00:39:56,480 --> 00:40:01,600 I always, they come out, they, I take them out front right before 633 00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:03,440 the show. You know, they always sit on my 634 00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,880 rise or, or unless they're running around God knows where 635 00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,560 during the show. But but I always tell them I'm 636 00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:14,080 like, this is one of the best things in my about my job when I 637 00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:16,800 walk out and I always walk out from stage, right, Unless it's 638 00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:20,560 impossible. To walk out from backstage into 639 00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:26,760 a stadium full of people who are just, you know, on up up here 640 00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:31,680 waiting for The Rolling Stones. Or you 2 or something, 40 or 50 641 00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:35,000 years, these people you know? Yeah, it's the mostly exciting 642 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:35,720 thing. Yeah. 643 00:40:35,720 --> 00:40:39,480 And you never take, never take it for granted, you know, make 644 00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,360 never, never puts in less than 100%. 645 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:46,360 I I feel the same way. Yeah, I love that. 646 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,760 Like, I, I obviously you can go out and see some bands who just 647 00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:53,520 kind of sit there and play the songs and, or sometimes they 648 00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:56,680 actually even sit like they've got a chair on stage and stuff. 649 00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:01,280 Like, you know, OK, they still sound great, but I can sit at 650 00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:06,080 home and, and, you know, listen to, yeah, listen to the album or 651 00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:08,200 whatever. I, I don't need to, you know, go 652 00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:12,760 pay $75.00 for parking to watch people play the album. 653 00:41:13,240 --> 00:41:18,360 But you know, to see Mick and, and you know, Steven Tyler, who, 654 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:20,760 you know, obviously struggles with some things, but he's still 655 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:22,800 a rock star. When he does go out and gig, he 656 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,760 doesn't mail it in. He, he puts in, he puts on a 657 00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:27,880 rock show. You know, I love those people. 658 00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:32,480 Like I, you know, all of those, you know, guys who are in their 659 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:36,280 70s and 80s now who are like just still killing it out there. 660 00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:38,080 I love it. It's so good. 661 00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:42,600 So we were talking, we were talking before we started like 662 00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:47,440 some of the, some of the massive things that both you and I, I 663 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:52,080 think we're similar age have seen in our industry, you know, 664 00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:55,280 being that we're a little older than than some of the people in 665 00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:59,760 it today. You know, I got to be there when 666 00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:03,120 moving lights started. And you know, I, I love that. 667 00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:06,360 Like I, I wasn't out doing shows, I was selling stuff when 668 00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:10,520 moving lights started. And, and so I jumped on that 669 00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:12,280 bandwagon. I said, hey, these things might 670 00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:14,360 stick around. I'm going to learn all about 671 00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,040 them and go out and become an account executive selling moving 672 00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:21,440 lights. And, but you know, so many 673 00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:23,120 people now just take it all for granted. 674 00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,240 Like, you know, it's like, hey, we all have these massive 675 00:42:26,240 --> 00:42:30,600 digital consoles with a bazillion universes on them and 676 00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:34,120 you know, all these pre programmed effects and all this 677 00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:38,720 stuff like and we all have 1000 moving lights on every show. 678 00:42:38,720 --> 00:42:43,000 You know, like what you obviously did shows when there 679 00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:45,040 weren't moving lights on them, I'm guessing. 680 00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:51,880 Yeah, Parkins spent, you know, and I actually recently did, I 681 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:57,040 did a short Iggy Pop run and there was a very limited budget 682 00:42:57,040 --> 00:42:59,440 for lighting. And this was one of the best 683 00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:02,120 things I've ever done, by the way, Iggy Pop, just to be able 684 00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:06,280 to watch him for how? For many shows we did. 685 00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:08,920 Yeah. So I mean. 686 00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:12,200 I I was furry left his shirt on at this point in his life. 687 00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:14,840 But but other than that, like as a performer. 688 00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:17,280 Wow, that guy just blows my mind. 689 00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:20,520 Yeah, you get to the end of the show and like that, that was 690 00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:23,760 only, you know, 80 minutes. And then you look at the set 691 00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:26,640 list, you're like, that was 20 songs in 80 minutes. 692 00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:32,400 You know, we Stones do 1920 songs over two 2 1/2 hours, but 693 00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:35,880 so we had a a fairly limited lighting budget. 694 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:38,440 I I had enough to bring out a few floor lights and then we 695 00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:40,640 used house lights everywhere and there was somewhere where they 696 00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:43,720 didn't have any lights. So we brought a system and I 697 00:43:43,720 --> 00:43:48,520 designed a nice, you know, moving light rig and money came 698 00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:53,200 the the quote came in. It was a bit more than they 699 00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:55,280 wanted to spend. And I talked to the manager. 700 00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:59,600 I'm like, hey, do you mind if I'd like to just do a, a park 701 00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:02,560 hand show, No color bars? No, no color show. 702 00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:05,480 He's like, yeah, so. Old school. 703 00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:09,720 Yeah, so PRG scraped the bowels of their warehouse. 704 00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:13,840 I was in there something while they were prepping it and I was 705 00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:15,920 telling the guy say, can you make sure that all the bottles 706 00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:18,320 are up and down stage and like looked at me like what are you 707 00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:21,840 talking about? Anyway, so I did an old color 708 00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:23,720 show. I did have one, one circuit of 709 00:44:23,720 --> 00:44:25,440 red. Forgive me danger. 710 00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:27,200 And afterwards the manager came up. 711 00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,360 He's he just said with a smile on his face. 712 00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:31,960 He said, I just want to thank you. 713 00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:35,400 I said it has been so long since I've seen a par can show and it 714 00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,440 was amazing, you know, to see those lights again. 715 00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:42,800 Were you running Park Hands on an MA3 console though or? 716 00:44:43,240 --> 00:44:47,520 MA2 I'm still I'm still MA two. Yeah, but I should have. 717 00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:51,160 That's funny, yeah. I mean, it'd be funny though if 718 00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:55,320 you rented a, an expression two or something and brought that in 719 00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:58,920 to Run Park hands on or a an old Ava or whatever, you know? 720 00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:02,120 Yeah, yeah, that would have been fitting. 721 00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:06,640 Yeah, I mean, again, it's same with sound. 722 00:45:06,720 --> 00:45:11,280 Like by the way, I, you know, I have a, a few guys like I, I 723 00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:13,960 kind of grew up with, do you know Jim Yakoboski, front of 724 00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:15,280 house guy. No. 725 00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:18,440 He's done loads of different stuff. 726 00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:21,240 He now works for Solo Tech, but he's been a front of house guy 727 00:45:21,240 --> 00:45:23,840 for years and years and years. But he, I come from Calgary, 728 00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:29,960 Canada and he was a club club sound guy working for club bands 729 00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:34,840 in, in Canada, rock bands. And like he could take these old 730 00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:39,120 sound systems with JBLW bins and 45 sixties and these like 731 00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:43,400 stacked, really junky sound systems and just make them sound 732 00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:47,400 incredible. And then he could go on to these 733 00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:50,120 new Martin Audio. They called them the phase plug 734 00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:52,680 systems. And he could go on to those and 735 00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:54,920 make them sound incredible. And now I've heard them with 736 00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:56,960 line arrays making them sound incredible. 737 00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:03,600 You know, a great, a great, you know, engineer or a great person 738 00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:06,880 at the console or at the controls should be able to make 739 00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:09,320 anything sound good or look good, right? 740 00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:13,440 And you know, the ability to make it look great. 741 00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:18,240 Like, you know, one example also was when, when Brickman showed 742 00:46:18,240 --> 00:46:22,760 up with Neil Young at I think it was Coachella with 16 follow 743 00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:26,480 spots and that's it. That was the lighting rig and 744 00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:28,080 they went where, where's your lights? 745 00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:31,800 You know, this is it. This is our Lights 16 follow 746 00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:34,320 spots. You know, I love that stuff. 747 00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:40,080 I love that stuff. You know, one one of the yeah, I 748 00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:44,480 mean, so, you know, I hate to get into conversations where it 749 00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:47,080 sounds like, you know, these kids these days 'cause there's 750 00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:51,840 so many talented young up and coming people in our industry 751 00:46:52,240 --> 00:46:54,840 who are just doing incredible things. 752 00:46:55,280 --> 00:47:01,040 But the toolbox is so much more full today than it was, you 753 00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:04,400 know, back in the day, like we tend to say way too often. 754 00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:10,160 Yeah, but I, I mean, I always say it was back then it was a 755 00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:14,240 lot harder design to design your rig. 756 00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:18,000 You know, that's what really took the time because you had to 757 00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:21,080 get placements, right. You had to get fixtures, whether 758 00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:24,920 they're Litcos or Pars or Fernells, it get all that in the 759 00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:28,000 right place. Pick your colors beforehand. 760 00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:31,960 So that was time consuming. Now it's, you know, there's 761 00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:35,040 never enough time on on the other end to program that 762 00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:36,880 because all these lights can do so much. 763 00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:40,280 But you know, you pick your trust, your trust shape and you 764 00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:43,920 load it with whatever the, you know, your favorite movers are. 765 00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:47,160 Yeah, but but you know, it was interesting. 766 00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:53,040 I, I was over at visiting with John Featherstone and Hailey 767 00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:56,120 Featherstone and, and Chris Herman while they were 768 00:47:56,120 --> 00:48:00,960 programming some Hans Zimmer stuff and we were talking about 769 00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:06,400 some lights and, and, and John showed me a video of some light 770 00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:11,040 he's, he's about to use. And the one comment was from 771 00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:13,800 both of us. I think it was what a beautiful 772 00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:16,000 looking light. It looks just like a par can, 773 00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:19,040 you know, but obviously you can change color, but there's 774 00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:21,600 there's still something about that quality of the beam from a 775 00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:24,480 par can. Yeah, Yeah, you're right. 776 00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:27,040 You're totally right. Well, and I like that we're 777 00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:28,720 going back to some of that. Like it. 778 00:48:28,720 --> 00:48:33,040 It seems like more manufacturers now, lighting manufacturers are 779 00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:35,720 starting to say, OK, you know, we've done things that are 780 00:48:35,720 --> 00:48:38,960 incredibly bright and throw for 12 miles and do all these 781 00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:41,560 different things. But let's go back to basics a 782 00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:44,480 little bit. And like one of my favorite is 783 00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:47,760 is the little Martin thing the Mac 1. 784 00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:50,480 I just used that for the first time. 785 00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:52,240 Yeah, yeah, it's a nice thing. It's. 786 00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:55,280 So cool. It's great, you know, and it's, 787 00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:59,600 it's cheap, it costs nothing practically, and it just does a 788 00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:03,560 few things really, really well and, and fits in small spaces 789 00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:08,000 and, and I like that, like I like sort of scaling it back 790 00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:12,120 again. And and, you know, I don't know, 791 00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:17,200 like having every light with the ability to do everything to me 792 00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:19,680 just has become a little bit vanilla, you know? 793 00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:23,320 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, like this is my light that 794 00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:27,760 does beam wash profile effects, you know, or, or whatever, 795 00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:31,400 right. And how about having like some 796 00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:34,080 layers and some different fixtures and stuff like that? 797 00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:37,280 I don't know, you know, again, I, I think like an old guy, 798 00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:40,280 probably. Although at the same time, you 799 00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:42,680 know, for years we all we had to alternate. 800 00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:46,160 OK, here's my wash light next to my profile next to my wash. 801 00:49:46,720 --> 00:49:50,680 And, and I mean, my favorite light of the last 20 years was 802 00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:55,920 probably the Martin air effects because you could do gobos and 803 00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:57,560 it had a great quality, the light. 804 00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:01,360 And all of a sudden, instead of having all to alternate, all of 805 00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:05,280 a sudden I had, you know, 100 lights that if I wanted a big 806 00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:10,400 strong looking wash or big strong Kobo look, you could do 807 00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:13,000 it with every single light. Not, not every other one. 808 00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:17,160 So, but but at the same time, now the lights that can, you 809 00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:20,120 know, have a built in strobe and could do this and this and this. 810 00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:25,440 Yeah, I I agree it I get it, but it can be a little bit much. 811 00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:27,600 Yeah, yeah. I don't know. 812 00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:32,040 I, I just think that I think, you know, we're seeing some 813 00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:34,840 changes to go back the other direction a little bit where you 814 00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:39,440 do have some sort of specialized fixtures that just do something 815 00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:41,960 really, really well and they don't try to be everything to 816 00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:44,240 everyone. And there may be priced a little 817 00:50:44,240 --> 00:50:46,240 better. We're looking at weight again as 818 00:50:46,240 --> 00:50:49,880 being, you know, a thing like let's get the weight back down 819 00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:53,720 on these things, maybe a few less channels on some of them. 820 00:50:53,720 --> 00:50:57,040 Like not everything has to be controlled by 200 channels or 821 00:50:57,040 --> 00:50:59,000 whatever. That's it. 822 00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:02,400 That's the same thing. I mean, there's there's somebody 823 00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:05,280 was showing me a light the other day that's 300 so much. 824 00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:08,560 And so I'm like everything I run, I just want to run it in 825 00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:11,400 basic mode. I want light to come out of it. 826 00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:15,200 I want it to be able to turn it red if I want to flash it around 827 00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:19,360 a little bit like who has time? And but, you know, then again, I 828 00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:23,240 must because I program my own shows and I'm a little slower, 829 00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:27,800 you know, these Wiz kids, Yeah, who who can deal with all that 830 00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:29,080 stuff. I'm like, I don't have time to 831 00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:32,400 look at every single at all. Yeah, I know. 832 00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:34,640 I I agree with you. I get it. 833 00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:40,560 Well, the other thing is power like, you know, so I remember 834 00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:43,520 not that long ago, less than 10 years ago probably where we were 835 00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:46,520 saying, Oh my God, you know, it's, it's great because we've 836 00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:50,280 reduced power so much on these, on these rigs. 837 00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:54,640 You know, we've cut power because of LEDs by 75%. 838 00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:58,680 Well, no, we haven't because now we're putting like 2000 Watt LE 839 00:51:58,720 --> 00:52:02,560 DS in fixtures and and thousand Watt LE DS and stuff. 840 00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:06,520 For some reason we're trying to, you know, out glare the the 841 00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:10,440 video screens now and everything's got to be 40,000 842 00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:13,880 lumens and stuff. And, and so we've given up on 843 00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:16,880 the on the power benefit that we had. 844 00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:20,640 We've given up on the weight benefit that we had, the size, 845 00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:24,840 they've gotten bigger again. And so, yeah, I mean, I don't 846 00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:29,440 know, I, I guess engineers who are creating new lighting 847 00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:33,000 fixtures know what they're doing, I assume and because they 848 00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:35,920 are coming out with some really cool innovation, but I'm just 849 00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:39,440 not sure I always agree with the strategy, but what do I know? 850 00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:43,240 Well. And I mean, as far as the power 851 00:52:43,240 --> 00:52:46,440 one, one thing I used to say was, well, yeah, you know, a 852 00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:49,760 Park Hand might eat up more than power than this. 853 00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:53,520 But a park hands on for focus, for programming and for the 854 00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:59,360 show, you know, the the moving lights, all the discharge 855 00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:02,840 lights, you'd strike them in the morning and and they were so, 856 00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:07,040 you know, nobody wanted to to douse them because who knew if 857 00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:09,360 they were going to strike again? So now you've got lights that 858 00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:15,200 are on for 14 hours a day instead of whatever. 859 00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:18,760 Now, at least with the LE DS and stuff, when when they're not on, 860 00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:22,440 they're not trying much power. The only problem is, and this is 861 00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:26,840 a problem I find with some of some of the young kids or not 862 00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:30,480 necessarily young kids, but a lot of people, you know, I saw a 863 00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:33,240 show, I won't say what it was. It was stadium show. 864 00:53:33,240 --> 00:53:36,800 It looked great, but every single song had everything 865 00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:40,280 going. I'm like, you know, I get it, 866 00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:44,240 you got all these toys, but you need this to make this work and 867 00:53:44,240 --> 00:53:47,680 this to make this work. Like give the audience a rest 868 00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:51,240 'cause it's exhausting. Yeah, yeah. 869 00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:53,840 Another, another great Brickman quote. 870 00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:56,760 Brickman said to me, you know, I you know, what I hate is those 871 00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:58,720 EDM shows. And I said, what? 872 00:53:58,720 --> 00:54:02,360 And he says, well, you know, the last thing I want if I'm 873 00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:05,520 standing there stoned out of my fucking brains on Molly, is a 874 00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:09,520 bunch of lights flashing in my face constantly, you know it, 875 00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:12,240 with a bazillion lumens and stuff. 876 00:54:12,240 --> 00:54:14,360 And I said, yeah, you kind of got a point there, buddy? 877 00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:17,480 Yeah. And, and you know, it's not to 878 00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:20,360 say they don't look amazing, but God give, they do give us a rest 879 00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:22,280 for a minute, you know? Yeah, yeah. 880 00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:24,440 And it is. Yeah, yeah. 881 00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:28,480 And you know, one of the great things I learned from Mick was 882 00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:31,240 and it, you know, he knows his audience is more than any. 883 00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:34,160 I've actually learned a fair amount of lighting from those 884 00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:36,800 guys. I had a conversation with Keith 885 00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:41,360 and I'd read an article about his, you know, some of his years 886 00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:45,960 on guitar playing and. And he said, you know, you can 887 00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:53,360 play as much you can whatever it's, it's meaningful not to 888 00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:56,760 play as it is to play. I'm like, yeah, you know, it's 889 00:54:57,040 --> 00:55:01,520 you can do as much by leaving it dark as you can by having it 890 00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:02,960 big. You need all the peaks and 891 00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:07,400 valleys and. No, I get, I completely get what 892 00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:09,000 he's saying. Like, I think what he's saying 893 00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:13,440 is is, you know, in in this much time, I could put, you know, 894 00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:16,840 1000 notes or I could put eight really well placed, 895 00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:21,560 strategically played, incredible notes that give people, you 896 00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:24,320 know, a reaction. And he's right. 897 00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:26,200 He's right. Like one of my favorite guitar 898 00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:30,240 solos is David Gilmour Comfortably Numb, which is very 899 00:55:30,240 --> 00:55:32,480 few notes. There's not a lot of notes in 900 00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:37,680 that solo, but it's just so perfect and so beautiful for 901 00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:42,560 that piece of music, you know? Yeah, and. 902 00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:46,120 That translates the lighting. Yeah, but that translates the 903 00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:48,880 lighting too. And I agree a lot of people, 904 00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:52,240 because there's this, you know, massive amount of things you 905 00:55:52,240 --> 00:55:54,960 could do with all these lights. Yeah. 906 00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:57,640 I feel like, you know, I've been doing some stuff with Jackson 907 00:55:57,640 --> 00:56:01,320 Browne lately and it's hard. You know, you want to as a 908 00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:04,160 lighting guy, you want to make these hits and, and have some 909 00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:06,120 movement. And it was an. 910 00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:08,960 Oz. I don't know, 'cause I look at 911 00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:11,120 his audience, I'm like, they don't want to see that. 912 00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:14,720 They want to watch Jackson. They want to make sure he's LED. 913 00:56:15,240 --> 00:56:18,240 You know, they can see him and they want a nice pretty scene 914 00:56:18,240 --> 00:56:21,000 behind him. And it's as a lighting person. 915 00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:25,320 It's really hard. But you know, I think, you know, 916 00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:27,200 are we doing this for us? Are we doing this for the 917 00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:30,360 audience? That's the perfect, perfect 918 00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:32,120 point. That's exactly what I would say 919 00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:35,200 about that is, is, you know, is this about my ego or is this 920 00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:39,120 about making the artist look as good as I possibly can and, and 921 00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:44,000 allowing people to really enjoy the music more, You know, But 922 00:56:44,600 --> 00:56:48,040 yeah, I'm with you on that. And, you know, there are, and I 923 00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:50,640 don't really want to mention names, but there are some very 924 00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:55,800 classic artists, let's call them Beetlesque types of artists who 925 00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:58,960 I've seen some shows where it was just like, you know, 926 00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:02,640 strobing in white, everything on the stage and stuff like that. 927 00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:06,160 And like, I'm just like, that doesn't work for me, you know, 928 00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:08,840 Like I'm not, I'm not a lighting designer. 929 00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:11,240 You're a extremely talented guy and all this. 930 00:57:11,240 --> 00:57:15,000 But you know, when when I'm listening to a classic, classic 931 00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:19,440 song, you know, to me that's much more subtlety. 932 00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:24,000 Like that's, you know, so I don't know, like I, I think 933 00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:27,000 there's a time and a place, you know, there's and if the time 934 00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:30,440 and the place is every bar of music the whole night, you're 935 00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:33,000 gonna wear out your audience. Yeah, yeah. 936 00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:37,720 That's what I think anyways. Yeah, and same thing about 937 00:57:37,720 --> 00:57:40,640 blinding the audience. You know, I, I try to, obviously 938 00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:45,080 we can't avoid it all the time, but I try to make a conscious 939 00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:48,240 effort not to piss off the audience. 940 00:57:48,240 --> 00:57:50,960 Cause I mean, I've, I've been in the audience where there's a 941 00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:54,560 light in my eyes, you know, for half the show and it's just 942 00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:56,360 annoying. Yeah. 943 00:57:56,720 --> 00:58:00,120 Other, although I will say my possibly the one of my favorite 944 00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:03,960 cues ever that I've done, I used to, I did a few tours with 945 00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:09,760 Angels and Airwaves, the guitar player from Blank's solo band. 946 00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:12,040 And I it's just a little club rig. 947 00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:17,440 And I had these see, early days of the LED pars and I had these 948 00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:23,480 pars in red on these towers. And I would start off at like 949 00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:28,960 10% strobing and over the course of, I can't remember 3 minutes, 950 00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:33,040 they would gradually, they were gradually going up to full and 951 00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:35,720 like the pure torture in the in the front row. 952 00:58:35,720 --> 00:58:37,400 But you know, it was that kind of audience. 953 00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:40,320 And then yeah, yeah. And they could have shut and 954 00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:43,200 and, and the band really, I think, kind of appreciated it. 955 00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:46,200 Well, I think. If you would only one small 956 00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:48,680 moment, yeah. Yeah, if you did that all night, 957 00:58:48,680 --> 00:58:51,880 they'd get annoyed after a while 'cause they can't see the band, 958 00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:54,360 they can't see their girlfriend, they can't see anything. 959 00:58:54,360 --> 00:58:55,720 You know, it's like, come on, man. 960 00:58:56,360 --> 00:58:59,400 Yeah. I mean, generally if, if I'm 961 00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:01,800 going to see a performer, I kind of want to see the performer. 962 00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:04,800 And see the performer. Yeah, I've, I've spent half my 963 00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:08,000 career, most of my career looking up at the, at the lights 964 00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:10,760 and stuff. But I don't know now, like, I 965 00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:17,840 guess the bigger problem I have is, is just because automated 966 00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:22,400 lights and LED screens now are so accessible, like everyone has 967 00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:26,280 them in their inventory. It's so easy to design so much 968 00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:30,200 of it into every show. And it really does like when 969 00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:34,000 people put, there's two things that I used to be able to really 970 00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:36,920 see. And so when people would put a 971 00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:40,760 lighting shot on the on the on social media or something, I 972 00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:42,600 would be able to tell what act it was. 973 00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:45,240 Can't anymore. I can't even tell you what genre 974 00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:47,520 of music it is anymore because they all look the same. 975 00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:49,800 Like Andrea Bocelli is going to look the same. 976 00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:51,760 And I'm, I'm just saying that name. 977 00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:54,040 I haven't seen the show, so I don't even know who designs it. 978 00:59:54,040 --> 00:59:58,240 But you know, a, a classical show might look the exact same 979 00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:00,960 as a heavy metal show as a Metallica show or something. 980 01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:05,560 And, and then the other one is I can't tell a light fixture from 981 01:00:05,560 --> 01:00:07,960 another anymore either. Like you used to be able to look 982 01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:10,120 up and go, Oh, that's AVL 5. That's a. 983 01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:14,800 Cyber light, that's whatever. Not anymore. 984 01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:17,760 Like they all basically look the same. 985 01:00:18,840 --> 01:00:23,640 So it's it's different, definitely different you were. 986 01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:27,160 Saying much of it is driven, oh, sorry, but a lot of it is 987 01:00:27,160 --> 01:00:30,520 driven, is driven by the bands, you know, the bands think that 988 01:00:30,520 --> 01:00:34,080 they need the video and. Yeah, yeah, I think it's Wiseman 989 01:00:34,080 --> 01:00:37,600 who told me that. Like he says, you know, Beyoncé, 990 01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:41,560 I'll go out and see Jlo or something and or, or Taylor 991 01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:44,440 Swift and she'll say I want a rig bigger than Taylor Swift. 992 01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:46,320 You know, I want, she's got one of those. 993 01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:48,480 I want two of those, you know, that kind of thing. 994 01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:51,400 Like there is some, some competition with the artists, 995 01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:57,800 which, you know, drives up the budget and and everything else, 996 01:00:57,800 --> 01:01:01,320 which is fine, I guess. But yeah, what do I know? 997 01:01:02,120 --> 01:01:05,960 So you said you're still MA 2. Is that for a reason, or is that 998 01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:09,120 just because you just haven't moved on to the three yet? 999 01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:15,880 Because the shows have been doing like, you know, the stones 1000 01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:21,000 has been a progression since, you know, for years. 1001 01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:25,920 So that was always on the on the two and I've been doing John 1002 01:01:25,920 --> 01:01:29,240 Mayer for a while and that started off programming for two 1003 01:01:29,320 --> 01:01:32,240 and, and I actually had an epiphany. 1004 01:01:32,600 --> 01:01:37,320 I hate using words like that, sorry, but at, at LDI 'cause I 1005 01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:44,640 was really I, I, I got pretty horribly burned by the hog 3. 1006 01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:50,480 So I'm a little gun shy to switch to any console before 1007 01:01:50,480 --> 01:01:54,440 it's really ready. And the idea of having to learn 1008 01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:59,840 a new console was just at my, you know, I'm obviously on the, 1009 01:01:59,960 --> 01:02:02,360 I'm not ready to retire yet because I still love what I do, 1010 01:02:02,360 --> 01:02:04,520 but I'm definitely on the downswing instead of the 1011 01:02:04,520 --> 01:02:07,240 upswing. I thought, how do I really have 1012 01:02:07,240 --> 01:02:10,920 to, to learn a new console? But you know, I spent some time 1013 01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:15,440 talking to Eric, Eric Marchwinski and, you know, I was 1014 01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:17,560 thinking about it. We were talking about the three 1015 01:02:17,560 --> 01:02:19,600 and, and I was thinking about, I'm like, well, why? 1016 01:02:20,280 --> 01:02:23,560 You know, why not look at it as something fun to do? 1017 01:02:23,560 --> 01:02:25,600 Look at it as a challenge. It's like learning a new 1018 01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:31,400 language or something. And so, so I'm, I'm home for, I 1019 01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:34,840 don't know, a month or so. So I'm going to start the 1020 01:02:34,840 --> 01:02:37,360 process of of going to the three. 1021 01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:40,160 Oh cool, but. Yeah, so 2 reasons. 1022 01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:43,360 The shows I haven't I've been doing we're on to and if it's 1023 01:02:43,360 --> 01:02:46,520 working, you know, even if it's a new iteration, you're still 1024 01:02:46,520 --> 01:02:50,560 building up the other one. Yeah, well, and a lot of people 1025 01:02:50,560 --> 01:02:52,800 are doing it in two steps too. You know, they go to the three 1026 01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:56,120 hardware, but the two software, at first, you know, they'll run 1027 01:02:56,120 --> 01:02:59,720 it in two mode and then they'll eventually sort of move on to 1028 01:02:59,720 --> 01:03:03,160 three mode. And pretty much now I'm sure you 1029 01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:05,040 have those conversations way more than I do. 1030 01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:09,000 But everyone I talked to now is like, yeah, the three now is 1031 01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:11,840 making my life better. You know, for a while I hated 1032 01:03:11,840 --> 01:03:12,880 it. I fought it. 1033 01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:15,840 I didn't want to do it. When I did it, I went backwards 1034 01:03:15,840 --> 01:03:20,240 again, but now it's actually making my life better, you know 1035 01:03:20,240 --> 01:03:21,720 it. It really works for me now, 1036 01:03:22,360 --> 01:03:23,520 though. That's a good thing. 1037 01:03:24,080 --> 01:03:25,800 Just in time for the four to come out. 1038 01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:30,680 Yeah, right, right. You know, and I, I mean, when I 1039 01:03:30,680 --> 01:03:34,160 think about the number of councils we've all had to learn 1040 01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:38,160 over the course of our life and I, I was AVO for years and years 1041 01:03:38,160 --> 01:03:44,280 and but it, you know, the now it can do everything. 1042 01:03:44,280 --> 01:03:47,280 I think it's an amazing console and I love all the all the guys 1043 01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:49,160 at AVO but. Yeah. 1044 01:03:50,200 --> 01:03:54,440 It's just I had to switch eventually switch over cause 1045 01:03:54,560 --> 01:03:58,520 'cause they kind of. Have you ever looked at the D 9? 1046 01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:01,680 I don't know much about it, but I know people who say it's 1047 01:04:01,680 --> 01:04:03,480 incredible and all that stuff, but. 1048 01:04:04,560 --> 01:04:07,160 Yeah, it and it it is. And I love Brad White. 1049 01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:10,680 The console is great and it's and it's easy. 1050 01:04:10,680 --> 01:04:13,800 You know, the biggest problem is, is availability. 1051 01:04:14,200 --> 01:04:18,560 Like if you're doing a world tour, I know that you know, when 1052 01:04:18,560 --> 01:04:21,920 I if I run into a problem in Thailand or something, I know I 1053 01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:25,760 can get, I can get. A yeah, locally. 1054 01:04:25,840 --> 01:04:33,000 And so, yeah, that's kind of the I've, I've fought years on that 1055 01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:36,240 problem when I worked for Martin because, you know, they would 1056 01:04:36,240 --> 01:04:39,680 say, people would say, yeah, but I can get, you know, high end 1057 01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:42,160 this or that or I can get verilite this or that in the 1058 01:04:42,160 --> 01:04:45,120 market. I can't get Martin fixtures if I 1059 01:04:45,120 --> 01:04:47,120 need them. So, you know, you need to build 1060 01:04:47,120 --> 01:04:51,520 up a sort of a distribution network, a rental network before 1061 01:04:51,520 --> 01:04:54,000 you come to me asking me to spec them on my shows. 1062 01:04:54,560 --> 01:04:57,320 And so that's what I did. You know, I I just kind of 1063 01:04:57,320 --> 01:04:59,880 worked, worked with the designers and worked with the 1064 01:04:59,880 --> 01:05:02,200 lighting companies and said, hey, we need to get this built 1065 01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:04,920 up because Ethan wants to use it on the stones or whatever, you 1066 01:05:04,920 --> 01:05:08,360 know, and, and it worked, you know, overtime. 1067 01:05:08,360 --> 01:05:12,040 Martin's now pretty big. But yeah, I mean, the whole 1068 01:05:12,040 --> 01:05:15,360 console thing is interesting because, you know, if you think 1069 01:05:15,360 --> 01:05:17,520 about it, like, I'm sure you know Bob Gordon, right? 1070 01:05:18,040 --> 01:05:21,880 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so yeah, me too. 1071 01:05:21,920 --> 01:05:25,960 He's I just did this thing at LDI called Dining with Dinosaurs 1072 01:05:26,000 --> 01:05:28,320 and Bob was one of the dinosaurs. 1073 01:05:28,320 --> 01:05:34,880 It was fun. But you know, Bob being Hog 1, 1074 01:05:34,880 --> 01:05:38,440 Hog 2, and unfortunately, I think he was still there for Hog 1075 01:05:38,440 --> 01:05:43,520 three or no, that was a high end product probably, but you know, 1076 01:05:43,600 --> 01:05:48,680 top of the world with Hog 2 and they pull the line from him 1077 01:05:48,680 --> 01:05:54,240 because high end bought it and suddenly he's got no console and 1078 01:05:54,240 --> 01:05:58,560 just pulls out the MA out of nowhere, out of the sky, you 1079 01:05:58,560 --> 01:06:02,400 know, and just hits gold again. I mean, just unbelievable. 1080 01:06:04,080 --> 01:06:10,160 Yeah, I, I, I went to LDI and I needed to switch to a new 1081 01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:16,800 console and that's when the grandma won was around and I 1082 01:06:16,800 --> 01:06:21,120 went and I got a, you know, whatever this short spiel from, 1083 01:06:21,520 --> 01:06:26,840 from whoever was doing it. And he had a long, a long pinky 1084 01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:30,640 nail and he's hitting the screen like this, like this. 1085 01:06:31,040 --> 01:06:33,040 I'm like, I'm not using that console. 1086 01:06:33,040 --> 01:06:36,200 Like that is not a rock'n'roll board if you got to use your 1087 01:06:36,200 --> 01:06:39,280 little fingernail to do it, unfortunately. 1088 01:06:39,280 --> 01:06:43,040 So I lost a few years on the on the grandma one, but eventually 1089 01:06:43,800 --> 01:06:47,240 after the after the hog three, I needed, I knew I needed a new 1090 01:06:47,240 --> 01:06:51,920 console and nook nook was trying to convince me to use the Maxis, 1091 01:06:51,920 --> 01:06:55,120 but every show I'd go to, everybody was on the grandma 1092 01:06:55,160 --> 01:06:57,200 one. I'm like I, you know? 1093 01:06:57,760 --> 01:06:59,600 Yeah, that sounds like you made the. 1094 01:06:59,600 --> 01:07:01,200 Right choice. Yeah. 1095 01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:03,680 Luckily, yeah. Although it's interesting what 1096 01:07:03,680 --> 01:07:07,040 happened with the Maxis, you know, that like Elation bought 1097 01:07:07,040 --> 01:07:10,600 it and turned it into the Subsidian console range, which 1098 01:07:10,600 --> 01:07:14,800 is like just a jump below all the MA stuff for the smaller 1099 01:07:14,800 --> 01:07:16,760 shows and installations and that stuff. 1100 01:07:16,760 --> 01:07:18,120 And they've done really, really well. 1101 01:07:18,240 --> 01:07:19,280 It's nice stuff. Yeah, yeah. 1102 01:07:21,120 --> 01:07:22,440 I mean and. That's the thing, there's so 1103 01:07:22,440 --> 01:07:24,840 many different markets. You know, as as much as you 1104 01:07:24,840 --> 01:07:28,720 don't, you don't see a lot of a balls out on the bigger tours. 1105 01:07:28,720 --> 01:07:32,160 There's still, you know, there's a huge market for them and 1106 01:07:32,160 --> 01:07:34,800 they're great consoles and yeah, yeah. 1107 01:07:35,600 --> 01:07:38,200 Yeah, well, and I think now they've got their manufacturing 1108 01:07:38,200 --> 01:07:40,600 shit together a little better too, you know, as far as at 1109 01:07:40,600 --> 01:07:44,280 least expanding sort of mass manufacturing or whatever now 1110 01:07:44,280 --> 01:07:49,200 that they're part of Roby. So, you know, there's, there's a 1111 01:07:49,200 --> 01:07:50,840 place for them. Absolutely. 1112 01:07:51,120 --> 01:07:54,920 You know, it's just, I don't know, like when MA has the 1113 01:07:54,920 --> 01:07:57,760 market share that they have, I don't know that attacking the 1114 01:07:57,760 --> 01:08:01,440 top end of the market is, is the best strategy right now, you 1115 01:08:01,440 --> 01:08:04,000 know, 'cause they're going to be hard to knock off that that 1116 01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:05,840 perch that they're on up there, you know? 1117 01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:08,320 Yeah, so. And they're and they're great 1118 01:08:08,320 --> 01:08:09,800 people. You know that that was the thing 1119 01:08:09,800 --> 01:08:14,120 when the when the three came out and all the horror stories you 1120 01:08:14,120 --> 01:08:17,200 heard about it. But you know, you know all the 1121 01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:21,279 people who are responsible for it and, and because you like 1122 01:08:21,279 --> 01:08:24,359 them so much like, well, all right, we're going to give it 1123 01:08:24,359 --> 01:08:26,240 the benefit or doubt. I know it's going to come 1124 01:08:26,240 --> 01:08:28,479 around. Let's just give it some time. 1125 01:08:29,000 --> 01:08:35,040 Yeah, yeah, it's true. So do you ever, do you ever 1126 01:08:35,040 --> 01:08:37,439 bring young people out on any of your cruise? 1127 01:08:37,439 --> 01:08:41,040 Like the are the shops putting, you know, younger crews out and, 1128 01:08:41,040 --> 01:08:44,319 and where you get to kind of mentor them a little bit? 1129 01:08:45,720 --> 01:08:50,279 Yeah, it's, and I'm, I'm happy to, you know, most of the time 1130 01:08:50,279 --> 01:08:53,160 they don't because I, I still do load insurance and load outs 1131 01:08:53,160 --> 01:08:55,640 because I still, I enjoy the whole process. 1132 01:08:55,640 --> 01:08:58,800 And, you know, you might make some suggestions to somebody 1133 01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:01,439 who's kind of new and they look at you like, what do you know? 1134 01:09:01,439 --> 01:09:04,880 And you're like, OK, never mind. But yeah, you know, anybody, 1135 01:09:04,960 --> 01:09:10,359 anybody who wants to learn, you know, we all like, I always like 1136 01:09:10,359 --> 01:09:14,399 to say that I'm, I'm immodest about my modesty. 1137 01:09:14,399 --> 01:09:17,359 Like I don't, I like to fly under the radar. 1138 01:09:17,359 --> 01:09:22,040 I'm kind of quiet and shy most of the time. 1139 01:09:22,080 --> 01:09:26,920 But yeah, but you know, you, you think about the fact, well, you 1140 01:09:26,920 --> 01:09:29,840 know, you want to have some kind of legacy after 40 years or 1141 01:09:29,840 --> 01:09:31,960 whatever you want. Hopefully in the next 5 years 1142 01:09:31,960 --> 01:09:34,000 somebody will still remember your name, whatever. 1143 01:09:34,000 --> 01:09:38,040 But I always, I always say, you know, I want, I want my legacy 1144 01:09:38,040 --> 01:09:40,840 to be the people that I taught some people stuff and that 1145 01:09:40,840 --> 01:09:44,319 people like working with me. And, you know, he was a nice guy 1146 01:09:44,319 --> 01:09:46,880 and, you know, maybe did a few kind of cool things on the 1147 01:09:46,880 --> 01:09:49,880 console as well. But but it's more about help 1148 01:09:49,880 --> 01:09:53,560 helping younger people out. Yeah, yeah, well, I mean, one of 1149 01:09:53,560 --> 01:09:57,960 the one of my biggest mottos or, or at least attempts in life, I 1150 01:09:57,960 --> 01:10:01,520 know I I fail at it quite often. Is is just don't be an asshole. 1151 01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:03,440 Like try not to be an asshole. Yeah. 1152 01:10:03,560 --> 01:10:07,520 Yeah, it's not hard. Yeah, well, sometimes it's hard. 1153 01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:10,400 It depends on the situation. Some people make it hard, you 1154 01:10:10,400 --> 01:10:12,760 know, but but don't be an asshole. 1155 01:10:12,760 --> 01:10:16,000 You know, Usually works pretty well when you're, especially 1156 01:10:16,000 --> 01:10:19,120 when you're collaborating with other people, like, you know, 1157 01:10:19,800 --> 01:10:23,400 don't try and make everything about you make it about the, the 1158 01:10:23,400 --> 01:10:26,560 outcome, You know, like we're, we're all focused on the 1159 01:10:26,560 --> 01:10:31,440 outcome, not, not on what I can sign my name to and say this was 1160 01:10:31,440 --> 01:10:33,560 Marcel's version of the outcome. I don't care. 1161 01:10:33,560 --> 01:10:36,360 Let's just focus on the outcome, whoever's version it is. 1162 01:10:36,920 --> 01:10:41,520 And sometimes that's hard to do. But you know, I don't know, like 1163 01:10:41,520 --> 01:10:46,240 I, I think I think it's really important that lighting company, 1164 01:10:46,240 --> 01:10:51,520 sound companies, companies doing touring of any kind, because you 1165 01:10:51,520 --> 01:10:53,800 know, we need more people obviously coming in. 1166 01:10:53,800 --> 01:10:55,200 There's there's always shortages. 1167 01:10:55,400 --> 01:10:57,280 People are still struggling to find crew. 1168 01:10:58,440 --> 01:11:01,440 Some of the people that. Are getting so big, yeah. 1169 01:11:01,440 --> 01:11:04,280 That's part of it, but I mean, plus everybody's on tour all the 1170 01:11:04,280 --> 01:11:06,760 time now. Like it's it's, you know, the 1171 01:11:06,760 --> 01:11:10,400 fact that there's venue shortages constantly, you know, 1172 01:11:10,400 --> 01:11:13,960 tells you that there's just a lot going on, obviously, But I 1173 01:11:13,960 --> 01:11:16,840 think we need more blended crews, you know, where they're 1174 01:11:17,080 --> 01:11:19,960 like, and I know it's hard to do a show the size of the of the 1175 01:11:19,960 --> 01:11:21,960 stones. I think your dog wants in again. 1176 01:11:21,960 --> 01:11:25,280 Do you need to let him in her? In No, no, she's she's. 1177 01:11:26,680 --> 01:11:32,080 Barking at the UPS guy, but you know, like, I think it, it's 1178 01:11:32,080 --> 01:11:35,920 hard when you're the stones or whatever to, to just say, Hey, 1179 01:11:36,280 --> 01:11:40,080 you know, we want some, some more green people to come out 1180 01:11:40,080 --> 01:11:45,120 with us and blend with our, our more tenured people are older 1181 01:11:45,120 --> 01:11:48,760 guys. But that creates, I guess, some 1182 01:11:48,760 --> 01:11:51,320 quality issues or safety issues or whatever. 1183 01:11:51,320 --> 01:11:53,480 So that's challenging. You probably want the most 1184 01:11:53,480 --> 01:11:57,560 experience you can possibly get. Yeah. 1185 01:11:57,560 --> 01:12:01,760 I mean, most of the time a tour like that, you can, you know, 1186 01:12:01,800 --> 01:12:05,800 you can have a couple pretty fresh people and just make sure 1187 01:12:05,840 --> 01:12:08,960 that, you know, you look after what they're done. 1188 01:12:09,200 --> 01:12:12,160 I mean, I always say, like, you know, a rig should not go up 1189 01:12:12,160 --> 01:12:15,200 until one of us checks all the bolts checks, make sure there's 1190 01:12:16,080 --> 01:12:18,520 there's no wrenches sitting on the Truss, whatever. 1191 01:12:18,520 --> 01:12:23,960 And you know that some, you know, if if there's a young kid, 1192 01:12:23,960 --> 01:12:27,120 as long as somebody's looking, looking after whatever they're 1193 01:12:27,120 --> 01:12:29,440 doing. But but yeah, but that's one. 1194 01:12:29,480 --> 01:12:32,280 But that's one of the things, you know, one of the great 1195 01:12:32,280 --> 01:12:36,720 things about the Bob sees of the world was when you left that 1196 01:12:36,720 --> 01:12:40,120 shop, you knew what you were doing because he was such a 1197 01:12:40,120 --> 01:12:44,160 taskmaster. And now you know, you can't, you 1198 01:12:44,160 --> 01:12:46,600 can't be mean to to kids in the shop. 1199 01:12:46,600 --> 01:12:48,480 You can't. Yeah, it's kind of true, isn't 1200 01:12:48,480 --> 01:12:50,880 it? Yeah, you can't work them 100 1201 01:12:50,880 --> 01:12:54,920 hours a week because whatever. So then they go out on tour and 1202 01:12:54,920 --> 01:12:58,280 all of a sudden they got these long hours and you know, if 1203 01:12:58,280 --> 01:13:00,800 you're not used to it, that's when you start making mistakes. 1204 01:13:00,800 --> 01:13:01,840 But. Yeah. 1205 01:13:02,440 --> 01:13:04,840 And now tours have HR departments. 1206 01:13:05,880 --> 01:13:09,000 Yeah, yeah. So everybody has somebody to 1207 01:13:09,000 --> 01:13:09,560 talk to. Yeah. 1208 01:13:11,160 --> 01:13:14,040 But, you know, I mean, obviously there's, there's great young 1209 01:13:14,080 --> 01:13:16,040 kids out there. And of course, yeah. 1210 01:13:16,240 --> 01:13:19,520 Doing really good work. Yeah, well, I mean, especially 1211 01:13:19,520 --> 01:13:25,320 in your role, like in, you know, programmers and, and guys and 1212 01:13:25,320 --> 01:13:28,520 girls running the desk and stuff, you know, just because 1213 01:13:28,560 --> 01:13:31,440 they've grown up with iPhones in their hands, they've grown up 1214 01:13:31,440 --> 01:13:35,000 with laptop computers, they've grown up with coding and all 1215 01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:38,200 this kind of stuff. So whereas with old guys like 1216 01:13:38,200 --> 01:13:40,840 us, you know, that stuff was all like, whoa, this thing has 1217 01:13:40,840 --> 01:13:45,440 buttons that light up, you know, like IT technology came a lot 1218 01:13:45,440 --> 01:13:49,920 slower to us. And so, you know, I think that 1219 01:13:49,920 --> 01:13:53,280 part's really interesting cause 'cause they can, they can move a 1220 01:13:53,280 --> 01:13:57,200 little faster sometimes they are none of it's foreign to them. 1221 01:13:57,200 --> 01:14:00,200 It's maybe some of, it's kind of antiquated actually when they 1222 01:14:00,200 --> 01:14:03,720 look at it. But have you ever thought or 1223 01:14:03,720 --> 01:14:06,400 talked or looked into any of the AI stuff? 1224 01:14:06,400 --> 01:14:10,840 Like are you, are you paying any attention 'cause I know it 1225 01:14:10,840 --> 01:14:13,680 hasn't impacted our industry yet, but I assume. 1226 01:14:15,480 --> 01:14:18,600 Yeah, I was. I was with hanging out with 1227 01:14:18,640 --> 01:14:21,680 Brian Hartley and Michael Keller and Brian. 1228 01:14:22,600 --> 01:14:25,800 Brian. Because he, he's, yeah, he's all 1229 01:14:25,800 --> 01:14:28,200 over that stuff. And he was showing us I'm like, 1230 01:14:28,360 --> 01:14:32,240 that's amazing. But I don't have when I'm like I 1231 01:14:32,240 --> 01:14:36,440 said, when I'm home, I got three kids, younger kids, and I don't 1232 01:14:36,440 --> 01:14:40,560 have the bandwidth right now The so look at all that. 1233 01:14:40,560 --> 01:14:42,440 But you know, you know what's coming. 1234 01:14:43,480 --> 01:14:47,240 But, you know, going going back to the to your point about these 1235 01:14:47,240 --> 01:14:51,000 kids being so great on the castles right away. 1236 01:14:51,000 --> 01:14:56,560 But then the the problem is that there's this whole group that 1237 01:14:56,560 --> 01:15:02,120 wants to go straight into that, which, you know, is you got to, 1238 01:15:02,200 --> 01:15:05,160 you got to know the other end of it too. 1239 01:15:05,880 --> 01:15:09,320 You know, you have to grow up setting them up. 1240 01:15:09,480 --> 01:15:14,480 You have to know what it does. And yeah, and too many of them 1241 01:15:14,520 --> 01:15:16,480 just want to go and sit back. I mean, that's one of the 1242 01:15:16,480 --> 01:15:18,920 reasons I, like I said, I still love doing mode insurance and 1243 01:15:18,920 --> 01:15:21,320 mode outs. And you see these kids that I'm, 1244 01:15:21,560 --> 01:15:24,160 you know, I've, I've never done a not that it's bad. 1245 01:15:24,160 --> 01:15:27,200 I think it's a great thing. But a time code show, I mean, 1246 01:15:27,680 --> 01:15:29,720 you know, you sit there and you focus and then you watch the 1247 01:15:29,720 --> 01:15:31,760 show run itself and then you go to the bus. 1248 01:15:31,760 --> 01:15:37,000 I mean, how is that, you know, furthering your career? 1249 01:15:37,000 --> 01:15:41,600 OK, I don't know. Yeah, I had that conversation 1250 01:15:41,600 --> 01:15:45,880 recently with Mark Brickman. I went to New York to see the 1251 01:15:46,080 --> 01:15:48,720 the David Gilmour thing that that he had just done. 1252 01:15:49,440 --> 01:15:51,880 And I don't know if you saw it, but he's doing that whole thing 1253 01:15:51,880 --> 01:15:53,920 where he's using stylus on the screen. 1254 01:15:54,320 --> 01:15:58,360 He calls it Paint with Light. And he just said, you know, like 1255 01:15:59,040 --> 01:16:02,240 if I was going to go out and tour with David Gilmour again, 1256 01:16:02,240 --> 01:16:05,960 doing all the old Pink Floyd stuff and everything, he said I 1257 01:16:05,960 --> 01:16:09,400 was going to run the desk. I wanted to control the lights. 1258 01:16:09,400 --> 01:16:12,880 I wanted to, I, I wanted to busk the show. 1259 01:16:12,880 --> 01:16:15,280 I didn't want to just sit back and watch it. 1260 01:16:15,880 --> 01:16:19,120 And that's what he did, you know, and he created a whole new 1261 01:16:19,120 --> 01:16:22,800 sort of way of doing that, a whole new input method with this 1262 01:16:22,800 --> 01:16:26,240 stylus thing on the screen. And it was really cool. 1263 01:16:26,240 --> 01:16:29,760 You didn't see it I assume? I I saw videos of it and I I 1264 01:16:29,880 --> 01:16:33,160 talked to Sparky. Sparky's a good friend of mine 1265 01:16:33,160 --> 01:16:37,160 and we chatted a bit about it. Yeah, it was. 1266 01:16:37,160 --> 01:16:41,560 It was it was honestly very clever, very unique, very 1267 01:16:41,560 --> 01:16:46,360 different. It just like to me, first of 1268 01:16:46,360 --> 01:16:49,160 all, you didn't have any, you know, massive, you know, 1269 01:16:49,160 --> 01:16:51,920 thousand Watt LED spotlights blasting you in the eyes. 1270 01:16:51,920 --> 01:16:56,040 But but just the way that the colour moved through the system 1271 01:16:56,040 --> 01:16:59,680 and just it was just unique. It just felt so different to 1272 01:16:59,680 --> 01:17:02,080 anything else I had had seen before that. 1273 01:17:03,240 --> 01:17:07,400 So I really enjoyed it. He's clever, that mark. 1274 01:17:08,760 --> 01:17:12,960 You know, who knew? Who knew, who knew he was so 1275 01:17:12,960 --> 01:17:17,600 clever, you know, but he's, he's, yeah, I love Mark. 1276 01:17:17,640 --> 01:17:20,440 He's, he's a very creative guy, very smart guy. 1277 01:17:22,600 --> 01:17:26,240 You know, he's got some quirks, as we all do. 1278 01:17:26,360 --> 01:17:31,400 And, and you know, I found a few of those, but but I love the guy 1279 01:17:31,400 --> 01:17:32,880 and I appreciate everything he does. 1280 01:17:34,600 --> 01:17:39,520 So you know, what other what other things are you learning 1281 01:17:39,520 --> 01:17:42,720 along the way right now? Like as compared to, you know, 1282 01:17:42,840 --> 01:17:44,840 20-30, forty years ago doing this? 1283 01:17:44,840 --> 01:17:46,600 What are what are some things that are different? 1284 01:17:46,600 --> 01:17:48,160 Like is it harder? Is it easier? 1285 01:17:48,160 --> 01:17:50,000 Is it better? Is it worse? 1286 01:17:50,000 --> 01:17:52,840 Like what's, how would you compare? 1287 01:17:53,760 --> 01:17:57,360 Or is it just all an evolution? I think it's an evolution and 1288 01:17:57,400 --> 01:18:01,480 you know, you can either you can either fight it or dive straight 1289 01:18:01,480 --> 01:18:05,080 into it or you know, I was thinking, I was thinking before 1290 01:18:05,080 --> 01:18:08,280 we were doing this, I was kind of thinking about the evolution 1291 01:18:08,280 --> 01:18:10,600 of all this. Now, you know, there's there's 1292 01:18:10,600 --> 01:18:15,440 like the Alley Metcalf, who's a, you know, brilliant designer who 1293 01:18:16,080 --> 01:18:19,760 wants the latest and greatest every time or, or not even the 1294 01:18:19,760 --> 01:18:21,640 greatest. He's just wants to try out 1295 01:18:21,640 --> 01:18:26,200 whatever the new thing is. I'm always a little a little gun 1296 01:18:26,200 --> 01:18:29,560 shy about trying the new stuff. But yeah, I go to, I've been to 1297 01:18:29,560 --> 01:18:33,200 LDI the last couple years and even though a lot of it, I'm 1298 01:18:33,200 --> 01:18:35,560 like, well, you know, it's all starting to look the same. 1299 01:18:36,160 --> 01:18:38,760 You know, all the lights can do this, all the lights can do 1300 01:18:38,760 --> 01:18:41,960 that. But you know, you look at some 1301 01:18:41,960 --> 01:18:44,240 of them and there's some innovative stuff out there and 1302 01:18:44,240 --> 01:18:45,520 you're like, well, that's pretty cool. 1303 01:18:45,520 --> 01:18:48,600 I'd love to, I'd love to give that a shot. 1304 01:18:48,600 --> 01:18:53,160 And yeah, you need, you need to, it's fun, you know, you got to 1305 01:18:53,960 --> 01:18:56,720 embrace it and, and have, have fun with it. 1306 01:18:57,400 --> 01:19:00,480 But at the same time, it's great to be able to go back and do a 1307 01:19:01,040 --> 01:19:07,600 the three Truss rig of no color pars and play around for yeah, 1308 01:19:07,600 --> 01:19:09,480 so. Yeah, I mean, technology 1309 01:19:09,480 --> 01:19:14,320 obviously it it plays a role and and but you know, growing for a 1310 01:19:14,320 --> 01:19:18,080 reason, not just more flash and trash like growing for a reason 1311 01:19:18,080 --> 01:19:22,600 and and improving the show and improving, you know, the whole 1312 01:19:22,600 --> 01:19:25,200 results. Not just like I can blast 1313 01:19:25,320 --> 01:19:27,720 brighter lights in your face all night or whatever. 1314 01:19:29,440 --> 01:19:31,600 So yeah, that's where I kind of get stuck. 1315 01:19:31,600 --> 01:19:35,920 Like, you know, to me, it all kind of blends and starts where, 1316 01:19:36,160 --> 01:19:39,280 you know, again, like I've been in on the moving lights sales 1317 01:19:39,280 --> 01:19:41,440 side of things. I'm not really right now. 1318 01:19:41,440 --> 01:19:44,800 I still sell moving lights, but I own a a used equipment 1319 01:19:44,800 --> 01:19:48,560 platform. But you know, I've been in the 1320 01:19:48,560 --> 01:19:52,480 moving light business forever. And like I said, you used to be 1321 01:19:52,480 --> 01:19:55,280 able to tell every single one of them apart 'cause they all had, 1322 01:19:55,520 --> 01:19:58,680 you know, nuances, different ways of moving, different ways 1323 01:19:58,680 --> 01:20:01,520 of changing color. The colors themselves look 1324 01:20:01,520 --> 01:20:03,600 different depending on the manufacturer. 1325 01:20:04,040 --> 01:20:06,880 You could always tell and you can't anymore. 1326 01:20:06,960 --> 01:20:10,760 Like right now, you could have a Roby rig or an Ayrton rig or a 1327 01:20:10,760 --> 01:20:13,240 Martin rig and I wouldn't know the difference for the most 1328 01:20:13,240 --> 01:20:16,600 part. And so that sucks. 1329 01:20:17,800 --> 01:20:22,160 But I think one of the one of the most game changing things 1330 01:20:22,160 --> 01:20:26,600 we've seen in the last few years is, is the remote spotlight. 1331 01:20:26,800 --> 01:20:30,480 I mean, I was killer. I was really gun shy about about 1332 01:20:30,480 --> 01:20:34,440 follow me when it came out. I thought, and you know, I'd use 1333 01:20:34,440 --> 01:20:37,840 the PRG one, We'd use the robo spots. 1334 01:20:37,840 --> 01:20:42,280 But I'm like, OK, I, I, I'm happy to use it for back spots. 1335 01:20:42,960 --> 01:20:46,920 But front spots, you know, is it's all tied into the computer, 1336 01:20:46,920 --> 01:20:50,640 like if you have a house spot, you know, unless you lose power 1337 01:20:50,640 --> 01:20:53,560 to that spot, if your console goes down, you can still do a 1338 01:20:53,560 --> 01:20:57,080 show. But, you know, since in the 1339 01:20:57,080 --> 01:21:01,240 last, I don't know how many years I've had follow me on, you 1340 01:21:01,240 --> 01:21:05,080 know, most every show I've done. And knock on wood, it's it's 1341 01:21:05,080 --> 01:21:07,280 never and it's amazing. I mean, the stuff we did. 1342 01:21:07,760 --> 01:21:14,840 So Willie brings Alan Branton in to, you know, to, to do the key 1343 01:21:14,840 --> 01:21:20,080 lighting on U2 and, and the stuff I would want to do. 1344 01:21:20,080 --> 01:21:24,600 You could never, ever do that before with the older 1345 01:21:24,600 --> 01:21:26,360 technology. And it's it's amazing. 1346 01:21:26,360 --> 01:21:31,120 You know, the OK, you want 10% from this side and you want 50% 1347 01:21:31,120 --> 01:21:32,680 from that side. Easy. 1348 01:21:32,680 --> 01:21:36,920 And you want to control 20 lights on on Bono at once. 1349 01:21:36,960 --> 01:21:39,560 Yeah, it's A and. It's it's all been really 1350 01:21:39,560 --> 01:21:42,840 reliable for you like. There's been really reliable, 1351 01:21:43,240 --> 01:21:47,040 yeah, I mean, much more reliable than having, you know, when you 1352 01:21:47,040 --> 01:21:50,880 got 14 spot operators trying to get them first of all, trying to 1353 01:21:50,880 --> 01:21:54,160 get them harnessed up and up in the Truss and having to, you 1354 01:21:54,160 --> 01:21:57,680 know, your most stressful time before the show is before the 1355 01:21:57,680 --> 01:22:01,240 show and having to have spot meetings And this guy's late 1356 01:22:01,240 --> 01:22:04,520 because he didn't realize you're in a it's a stadium and there 1357 01:22:04,520 --> 01:22:08,840 might be 50,000 other cars coming in or 25,000 cars. 1358 01:22:09,480 --> 01:22:12,840 So, I mean, that part was always stressful. 1359 01:22:13,240 --> 01:22:15,280 And now, you know, at first you stress, well, what if the 1360 01:22:15,280 --> 01:22:16,920 console goes down? But then. 1361 01:22:18,560 --> 01:22:22,400 But yeah, and the possibilities and now, you know, Robbie's come 1362 01:22:22,400 --> 01:22:24,240 up with. I can never remember the names 1363 01:22:24,240 --> 01:22:26,560 of the lights, but they're from Rubble Spot. 1364 01:22:26,800 --> 01:22:29,640 Yeah. Are they're the light, the I 1365 01:22:30,640 --> 01:22:33,800 Forte, whatever it is. But I mean, it's amazing. 1366 01:22:33,800 --> 01:22:37,080 It's so bright and temperatures are nice. 1367 01:22:37,080 --> 01:22:39,520 Yeah. That whole stuff is is really 1368 01:22:39,520 --> 01:22:43,000 revolutionized. So you're using the automated 1369 01:22:43,000 --> 01:22:46,080 spot systems follow me. You're not using like Robospot 1370 01:22:46,160 --> 01:22:50,600 the the where they've got the the fake follow spot like in the 1371 01:22:50,600 --> 01:22:55,000 bomb or something. We use so John Mayer, we just 1372 01:22:55,000 --> 01:22:57,440 use follow me at you to the sphere. 1373 01:22:57,440 --> 01:23:00,000 We use the combination. We use follow me for the front 1374 01:23:00,640 --> 01:23:04,880 and because we had towers that were moving we we use robospot. 1375 01:23:04,880 --> 01:23:08,040 Although now you can use follow me for that because they can 1376 01:23:08,040 --> 01:23:14,040 take whatever data from the encoders and and translate but. 1377 01:23:14,840 --> 01:23:16,480 Interesting. But so we just, and they're, 1378 01:23:16,520 --> 01:23:19,040 they're all great systems, yeah. But. 1379 01:23:19,160 --> 01:23:22,560 Yeah, they're all just. It's amazing how much incredible 1380 01:23:22,560 --> 01:23:26,640 technology has been dedicated to follow spots, to getting rid of 1381 01:23:26,640 --> 01:23:29,680 follow spots. There's, you know, there's 3 or 1382 01:23:29,680 --> 01:23:34,720 4 great systems that I can think of that that work really well, 1383 01:23:34,720 --> 01:23:37,600 but just entirely different concepts on how to deal with the 1384 01:23:37,600 --> 01:23:40,400 problem, how to, you know, different solutions for the same 1385 01:23:40,400 --> 01:23:43,480 problem, which I love. Like that's, you know, it's one 1386 01:23:43,480 --> 01:23:46,080 of the things that so many people always say about this 1387 01:23:46,080 --> 01:23:49,280 industry is that, you know, give us the problem, we'll find, 1388 01:23:49,320 --> 01:23:52,360 we'll find a solution for it, you know, regardless of what it 1389 01:23:52,360 --> 01:23:54,280 is. Like COVID, I remember, I don't 1390 01:23:54,280 --> 01:23:57,800 remember if it was Marty Ham or, or Jake or one of the major 1391 01:23:57,800 --> 01:24:01,160 production managers out there. I had a conversation with. 1392 01:24:01,160 --> 01:24:03,920 He said, you know, I just think that they should hand us the 1393 01:24:03,920 --> 01:24:05,680 problem. We'll figure out how to how to 1394 01:24:05,680 --> 01:24:10,840 get people safely in and out of venues and and, you know, fill a 1395 01:24:10,840 --> 01:24:13,840 stadium with people and, and try not to get them all sick. 1396 01:24:13,840 --> 01:24:17,600 You know, we'll figure that out. And he's probably right. 1397 01:24:17,600 --> 01:24:22,400 You know, it's obviously that was a horrible time. 1398 01:24:22,400 --> 01:24:24,960 And thank God we're not going back there anytime soon. 1399 01:24:24,960 --> 01:24:27,320 But yeah. Although there were some 1400 01:24:27,320 --> 01:24:30,360 benefits to it. There were, yeah. 1401 01:24:31,240 --> 01:24:33,880 Once we realized, you know, we weren't going to lose our home 1402 01:24:33,880 --> 01:24:38,240 and to be be able to be home for a month and a half and hang out 1403 01:24:38,560 --> 01:24:41,600 with the kids and everything, but yeah. 1404 01:24:41,680 --> 01:24:45,480 We're, we're and. 1/2 I I mean a year and. 1/2 a year and a half, 1405 01:24:45,560 --> 01:24:47,440 yeah. I was like, what show did you do 1406 01:24:47,440 --> 01:24:49,840 that was a month and a half in? Yeah. 1407 01:24:49,840 --> 01:24:55,320 But I mean, yeah, we're, we are a solution based business. 1408 01:24:55,400 --> 01:24:58,280 You know, you, I talked to, I'm pretty good friends with 1409 01:24:58,280 --> 01:25:01,160 Chipmunk and we've spent times talking about, and that was 1410 01:25:01,160 --> 01:25:06,720 before the Internet, you know, how he used to source things and 1411 01:25:06,960 --> 01:25:10,320 you needed to live in a city that had a great hardware store 1412 01:25:10,320 --> 01:25:13,720 and a great electronic store. And they just, they went and 1413 01:25:13,720 --> 01:25:20,560 built it, you know, on U23U2360, Hedwig from Stageco was trying 1414 01:25:20,560 --> 01:25:24,160 to figure out how to lift, lift the center portion. 1415 01:25:24,800 --> 01:25:27,680 And he talked to his crane drivers and his or crane 1416 01:25:27,680 --> 01:25:29,080 operators. And they're like, well, you, you 1417 01:25:29,080 --> 01:25:33,920 can't, you can't use 4 cranes. You cannot 3 cranes at the most. 1418 01:25:33,920 --> 01:25:36,480 Because if one of them goes, then you got a problem. 1419 01:25:36,480 --> 01:25:41,200 So he's searching the Internet and comes up with some kind of 1420 01:25:41,640 --> 01:25:45,240 hydraulic, something I think that, you know, big bridge 1421 01:25:45,240 --> 01:25:47,800 builders use and came up with that. 1422 01:25:47,800 --> 01:25:49,000 I mean, the. Yeah. 1423 01:25:49,400 --> 01:25:52,240 Wild. Yeah, No, there's incredibly 1424 01:25:52,240 --> 01:25:55,160 innovative people and and also we're stubborn. 1425 01:25:55,520 --> 01:25:58,440 We're a stubborn industry. We don't take no for an answer. 1426 01:25:58,440 --> 01:26:00,880 We find a way, right? There's always a way. 1427 01:26:01,360 --> 01:26:04,120 Yeah. So you, you mentioned something, 1428 01:26:04,360 --> 01:26:06,680 you sent us a whole bunch of notes and one of the things you 1429 01:26:06,680 --> 01:26:13,640 mentioned was your motto for life, which is not to half ass 1430 01:26:13,640 --> 01:26:17,720 anything. So you're basically just saying 1431 01:26:17,760 --> 01:26:19,200 full on no matter what you're doing. 1432 01:26:20,360 --> 01:26:23,120 Well, put everything you can into it. 1433 01:26:23,360 --> 01:26:30,080 You know, there's, like I said, I mean, we're, we're there for, 1434 01:26:30,320 --> 01:26:32,480 to give the audience and the band a show. 1435 01:26:33,360 --> 01:26:36,320 You know, my job out front is not only to make sure the 1436 01:26:36,480 --> 01:26:40,960 audience can see the band have a little bit of stuff going on, 1437 01:26:40,960 --> 01:26:44,920 interesting stuff hopefully going on, but also to make sure 1438 01:26:45,600 --> 01:26:49,840 that, you know, that the lights are the last thing the band has 1439 01:26:49,840 --> 01:26:52,880 to worry about. And it's because you always put 1440 01:26:52,880 --> 01:26:55,520 up, always put 100% in. I mean, that's one of the 1441 01:26:55,520 --> 01:26:59,040 reasons I think I still, you know, I don't want to dwell on 1442 01:26:59,040 --> 01:27:01,680 it, but still like to load in and load out because I feel like 1443 01:27:02,040 --> 01:27:04,680 it's my response. The lights are my responsibility 1444 01:27:05,360 --> 01:27:07,560 and there's a decision to make, be made. 1445 01:27:07,600 --> 01:27:10,440 I'm going to be the one I want to be the one to make it. 1446 01:27:10,520 --> 01:27:13,120 So if I'm going to be there, I might as well, you might as well 1447 01:27:13,120 --> 01:27:16,000 get your, you know, your hands dirty and help out. 1448 01:27:16,000 --> 01:27:18,640 And yeah, yeah, just good for you. 1449 01:27:18,640 --> 01:27:20,240 I. Mean, I don't know of a lot of 1450 01:27:20,240 --> 01:27:24,360 people who still do that. There's there's a few, yeah. 1451 01:27:24,400 --> 01:27:28,760 You know Michael Keller is still out there on the floor. 1452 01:27:29,400 --> 01:27:33,400 Yeah, Yeah, that's, that's cool. I love that. 1453 01:27:34,040 --> 01:27:37,320 So what about what about charities or anything that you 1454 01:27:37,560 --> 01:27:42,200 like to be a part of promote? I don't. 1455 01:27:44,720 --> 01:27:48,280 I'm not a part of, but I'll donate money every, you know, 1456 01:27:48,720 --> 01:27:51,120 every December. I like a lot of children, kids 1457 01:27:51,120 --> 01:27:53,920 charities and and stuff like that. 1458 01:27:54,400 --> 01:27:56,400 Yeah. Hospitals taught to get top 1459 01:27:56,400 --> 01:28:00,120 borders. My father died of a stroke. 1460 01:28:00,120 --> 01:28:03,920 So American Heart Association, but mainly, mainly kids 1461 01:28:03,920 --> 01:28:05,640 charities. Yeah. 1462 01:28:05,720 --> 01:28:08,680 And he and he's hope is a great one out of Saint Louis. 1463 01:28:08,880 --> 01:28:09,680 Yeah. Yeah. 1464 01:28:09,880 --> 01:28:13,720 For firm believer, I was brought up that year, You got to, you 1465 01:28:13,720 --> 01:28:17,000 got to get back. Pay it forward, of course. 1466 01:28:17,280 --> 01:28:19,600 Well, and inside the industry too. 1467 01:28:19,600 --> 01:28:22,480 And, and I mean, I know that you, you talk a lot about 1468 01:28:22,480 --> 01:28:25,720 mentoring younger people and sharing stories and sharing 1469 01:28:25,720 --> 01:28:27,640 information with younger people and stuff. 1470 01:28:27,640 --> 01:28:31,000 I think it's super important because I never want to 1471 01:28:31,000 --> 01:28:34,320 disconnect, you know, the past to the, to the future in this 1472 01:28:34,320 --> 01:28:36,520 industry. I, I really, it's one of the 1473 01:28:36,520 --> 01:28:39,720 reasons that I keep doing this is because people are genuinely 1474 01:28:39,720 --> 01:28:43,800 interested in hearing how it was done in the 60s and 70s and 80s 1475 01:28:43,800 --> 01:28:48,040 and stuff. And I get so many comments from 1476 01:28:48,040 --> 01:28:51,160 people, you know, on social media and stuff or, or messages 1477 01:28:51,160 --> 01:28:54,360 back to me saying, you know, wow, I had no idea. 1478 01:28:54,360 --> 01:28:56,600 This is incredible. Thank you so much for sharing. 1479 01:28:56,880 --> 01:28:58,800 That's not me sharing. It's you guys all sharing. 1480 01:28:58,800 --> 01:29:00,720 So I appreciate that part of it, of course. 1481 01:29:01,200 --> 01:29:03,160 So what do you, what do you got going on this year? 1482 01:29:04,800 --> 01:29:08,000 Well, Stone's cancelled, so I got a few things. 1483 01:29:08,000 --> 01:29:11,480 I can't really talk about them 'cause they're not not set in 1484 01:29:11,480 --> 01:29:13,320 Stone yet and I don't want to change it. 1485 01:29:13,920 --> 01:29:18,040 Yeah, well, and then you'll get the stones call again and and. 1486 01:29:18,240 --> 01:29:20,760 We hope. We hope so. 1487 01:29:20,840 --> 01:29:24,160 You know, every time Opie or Patrick calls, you know, you, 1488 01:29:24,960 --> 01:29:27,240 you get the call and you're like, this is good news or bad 1489 01:29:27,240 --> 01:29:31,960 news. And this last one, Opie, you 1490 01:29:31,960 --> 01:29:34,120 know, usually it's right away. Oh, it's, it's fine. 1491 01:29:34,120 --> 01:29:36,440 And there was a hesitant hesitation. 1492 01:29:36,440 --> 01:29:41,000 I'm like, OK, it's bad news, but you know, they're all relatively 1493 01:29:41,000 --> 01:29:42,160 healthy still. So. 1494 01:29:42,520 --> 01:29:45,600 And the beauty of it is the last show of the last tour was in 1495 01:29:45,600 --> 01:29:51,920 Branson, MO, which was a great show, but we all said there's no 1496 01:29:51,920 --> 01:29:56,320 way the Stones can end their, you know, 60s touring career 1497 01:29:56,720 --> 01:29:58,760 with the last show being Branson, MO. 1498 01:29:59,240 --> 01:30:02,040 No, that ain't happening. That ain't happening. 1499 01:30:02,040 --> 01:30:03,880 They're not finishing in Branson, MO. 1500 01:30:03,880 --> 01:30:07,200 I, I, I can't imagine what their last show will be when it, 1501 01:30:07,240 --> 01:30:11,320 whenever it happens, but hopefully they go back out soon 1502 01:30:11,320 --> 01:30:13,560 'cause I mean, you're doing incredible things out there. 1503 01:30:13,560 --> 01:30:18,240 And I, I have a friend down here in South Florida who every 1504 01:30:18,240 --> 01:30:22,040 single time the Stones are anywhere, you know, within 1000 1505 01:30:22,040 --> 01:30:24,240 miles of here, he's like, Marcel, come on, we're going. 1506 01:30:24,640 --> 01:30:27,560 I'm like, dude, I am not going to see the Stones again. 1507 01:30:27,560 --> 01:30:30,760 I've seen him like 6 times. You know, I'm good. 1508 01:30:30,760 --> 01:30:32,360 I was never a Stones fan growing up. 1509 01:30:32,360 --> 01:30:35,720 I was a Led Zeppelin fan. I, I just, the Stones sort of 1510 01:30:35,720 --> 01:30:40,440 skipped me somehow and I was a Led Zeppelin guy and, and then 1511 01:30:40,440 --> 01:30:43,560 got into heavier stuff, Iron Maiden and Judas Priest and all 1512 01:30:43,560 --> 01:30:45,800 that stuff. So the Stones was just not a 1513 01:30:45,800 --> 01:30:48,560 thing for me until later in life, which is when I started to 1514 01:30:48,560 --> 01:30:53,960 go see him and, and my my ex-wife worked for their record 1515 01:30:53,960 --> 01:30:57,160 company and so saw them a few times with her. 1516 01:30:58,120 --> 01:31:03,680 We had a classic picture of her and Mick Jagger where they were 1517 01:31:03,680 --> 01:31:06,120 standing like just with his arm around her or something. 1518 01:31:06,120 --> 01:31:09,400 And I went to take the picture and right before I took the 1519 01:31:09,400 --> 01:31:11,840 picture, I think he pinched her butt. 1520 01:31:12,240 --> 01:31:17,160 And then and then right after that she pinched his butt back 1521 01:31:17,160 --> 01:31:19,640 and, and he's looking at her like in shock. 1522 01:31:19,640 --> 01:31:21,560 And I, I snapped the picture right then. 1523 01:31:21,560 --> 01:31:23,960 So it's, it's just a really, really cool picture. 1524 01:31:23,960 --> 01:31:26,520 I wish my ex-wife wasn't in it 'cause I'd hang it on the wall, 1525 01:31:26,520 --> 01:31:30,480 but but. You know, these days with 1526 01:31:30,520 --> 01:31:32,440 Photoshop and all, you could put anybody. 1527 01:31:32,440 --> 01:31:33,760 Yeah, it's true. Yeah. 1528 01:31:33,880 --> 01:31:35,760 Yeah, it's true. It's true. 1529 01:31:35,960 --> 01:31:37,720 Well, Ethan, I appreciate you, man. 1530 01:31:37,720 --> 01:31:39,880 I appreciate you taking the time out of your day to do this. 1531 01:31:40,240 --> 01:31:42,760 Yeah, it's always, it's. Always great to. 1532 01:31:43,480 --> 01:31:47,520 Yeah, and you as well. And I look forward to seeing you 1533 01:31:47,520 --> 01:31:49,920 back out with the Stones or whoever else you're out with 1534 01:31:49,920 --> 01:31:52,760 this year. And I did get to say hi to you. 1535 01:31:52,760 --> 01:31:55,080 You probably don't remember because there were 1000 people 1536 01:31:55,080 --> 01:31:58,400 there, but at the upstaging party this year we did shake 1537 01:31:58,400 --> 01:32:03,120 hands and quickly say hello. But yeah, cool. 1538 01:32:03,160 --> 01:32:04,640 Well, thank you very much, my friend. 1539 01:32:05,360 --> 01:32:06,000 Take the. Rest of the. 1540 01:32:06,000 --> 01:32:07,120 Week. All right man all. 1541 01:32:07,120 --> 01:32:07,720 Right. Thanks. 1542 01:32:07,760 --> 01:32:08,840 You too. All right, bye.