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Well, hello, and here you are at
episode 300. 

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Wow. 
Like who knew? 

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Who knew we were going to make 
it to 300? 

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It's a pretty cool 
accomplishment and I'm kind of 

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excited about it. 
And today's guest I'm very 

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excited about as well. 
Steve has been a great friend of

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mine for probably over 30 years 
now. 

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We've had a lot of fun together.
We've made some pretty good 

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business together as well. 
And. 

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Just a great guy and have a lot 
of fun with him and stuff. 

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And we had some pretty 
interesting conversations that 

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went from early lighting all the
way through to where we're at 

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today. 
A little bit about AI, of 

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course. 
And and yeah, we even got into 

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some politics, which was 
something I try not to do. 

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But anyways, it's a great 
podcast. 

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I hope you like it. 
It was fun. 

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Hello and thank you for joining 
me today on a very special 

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00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:59,800
episode number 300. 
Today's podcast is brought to 

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you by Main Light. 
Main Light is your go to dry 

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hire rental provider bringing 
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and request a direct quote 
through their easy to use online

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ordering platform. 
Episode 300 is also brought to 

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you by Elation, a privately held
corporation established in 1992 

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and headquartered in Los 
Angeles. 

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All products are developed and 
engineered in the United States,

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with sales and support office 
locations in the US, Mexico and 

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Europe, and distribution via a 
worldwide dealer network. 

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00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:37,840
Please join me in watching the 
following Pulse Series video. 

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Inspire your audience's 
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Designed to bolster creativity 

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empowers designers to create 
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that captivate any audience. 
The Pulse Series synthesizes 

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mesmerizing lighting experiences
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allowing designers to create 
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lighting effects with effortless
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00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:58,830
Pulse Series. 
Here we are episode 300. 

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Who knew? 
Who the heck knew this was going

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00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:05,600
to last 90%? 
I want to give you some 

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statistics here. 
It's pretty wild. 

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I looked this up because I was 
like, what are we doing that's 

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so special? 
And so 90% of podcasts stop 

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publishing within their first 3 
episodes. 33 episodes. 

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That's crazy. 90% of the 
remaining 10% quit after 20 

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episodes. 
So that means by 20 episodes, 

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there's only 10% left, I think, 
if I'm doing the math correct. 

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So wait a SEC, no, 10% of 10%. 
So what the heck is that 

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anyways? 
Not very many, not very many are

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left after after 20 episodes. 
And less than 20% of new 

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podcasts launched in 2025 are 
expected to survive into 2026, 

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which is wild. 
And finally, just over 2% of 

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podcasts get a three get to 300 
episodes 2%. 

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So 2 out of every 120 out of 
every 1000 podcasts make it to 

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300 episodes. 
So we're now in officially in 

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the top 2% of podcasters. 
Yay. 

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And Speaking of new podcasters, 
So I love talking with 

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podcasters, people who are 
getting into it and who need 

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support and help and ideas and 
thoughts of how to do it. 

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So I'm putting this out there if
if you happen to be starting a 

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podcast, feel free to reach out 
to me. 

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I'm happy to share information, 
ideas, what gear you should use,

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what gear you shouldn't use, 
what platform you should use, 

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just all kinds of things. 
I'm constantly evolving. 

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In fact, this week you might 
notice I have a new microphone 

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and I'm actually I've gotten 
away from using a mixing 

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console. 
So now instead of a board, the 

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microphone plugs straight into 
USB in a USB hub and then makes 

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its way into my laptop. 
So and all the DSP now is 

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digital. 
It's an app on my computer. 

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So instead of going into a 
console and managing the sound 

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there, I'm doing it through ADSP
in my computer. 

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And it just makes it easier to 
travel. 

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I can use the exact same setup 
wherever I go. 

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I don't have to carry a bunch of
gear around with me. 

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So very cool. 
But Speaking of these new, new 

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podcasters, So I've had two 
people reach out to me in the 

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last week alone. 
And 1 is a friend from racing 

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who's a former GE engineer, very
smart guy, very, very bright 

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man. 
And he's a flyer. 

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He's a pilot and is is he moved 
very rapidly through becoming a 

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pilot and then next thing you 
know he's a trainer and he's 

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training and gliding and all 
kinds of stuff. 

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He's just, he's head first into 
it and very smart guy. 

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But he says, hey, I want to 
start a podcasting, a podcast on

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aviation and you know, I've done
a lot of research on gear and on

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tools and on software and stuff.
Can you help me? 

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And so originally I thought, you
know, this is going to be 1/2 

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hour, 45 minutes. 
We've literally got probably 10 

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hours of talking to each other, 
just geeking out on new gear, 

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new technology, all kinds of 
stuff. 

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And at the end, he's using 
almost the same thing I'm using.

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It's just he's got this big 
empty room in his house and he's

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turned it into a full blown 
podcast studio. 

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So it's all really nicely lit. 
He's got color back there and 

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cool images and pictures and 
stuff. 

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So I'm a little bit jealous that
you know, this newbie who I'm 

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teaching how to do a podcast is,
is, has already got a better 

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setup than I do. 
And then the other one is in 

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Wellness. 
He's, he's got a Wellness 

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business and around his Wellness
business, he wanted to create a 

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podcast. 
So I'm helping him. 

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So again, I'm throwing this out 
there. 

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Anybody needs help to start up a
podcast, just let me know and 

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I'm happy to help you as I 
always AM. 

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And that's for free. 
I'm not a consultant or 

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anything. 
I'm a consultant, but I'm a dumb

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one who doesn't charge anything 
for my consulting. 

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And So what else did I want to 
talk about? 

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Oh, I want to mention that we 
get support in in a couple of 

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different ways. 
First, from our listeners who 

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can like subscribe, share any of
our episodes with friends and 

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that helps us a lot. 
It increases the numbers. 

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And at the end of the day, 
people love listening to 

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podcasts that have big numbers. 
And we're in a very niche 

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industry, so our numbers are 
never going to be that big. 

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But we'd love for every podcast 
to get at least 5 or 6000 

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downloads. 
And right now we don't get that.

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I would say very few get to 5 or
6000. 

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Most will get to at least 1000, 
which is still a big number for 

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our industry, but we're 
definitely looking to increase 

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those numbers and we can do that
by you liking subscribing and 

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sharing. 
Pardon me, our podcast and 2nd 

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through sponsorship. 
So obviously you here at the 

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beginning of all of our 
episodes, you're hearing these 

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sponsors, you see them come on 
podcasts and talk about their 

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amazing companies, products, 
life, whatever. 

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And so through sponsorship, we 
are able to pay our bills. 

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We're able to pay the lovely 
Sarah and we're able to continue

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growing the podcast. 
So if you, your company, are 

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interested in becoming a sponsor
for Geezers of Gear, you just 

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have to shoot an e-mail to 
producer@geezersofgear.com. 

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That'll go to Sarah and she'll 
reach out to you with more 

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information. 
I think you'll find it's a lot 

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less expensive and there's a lot
more value than you might even 

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know. 
And as an example, Future Tech 

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that just came out a few weeks 
ago is wildly popular. 

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It's getting great numbers and 
and so that's a very high tech. 

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It's made with AI and that is 
available currently anyways for 

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free for our exist existing 
sponsors. 

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And so we don't charge anything 
additional for that. 

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So you're getting basically 
double the exposure and you're 

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getting your press releases put 
out on a podcast, which is 

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pretty incredible. 
So reach out to us if you'd like

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to become a sponsor. 
And finally, I just want to 

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really thank everyone. 
You know, this knucklehead in 

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2019 decides to go out and do 
something I probably had no 

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business doing. 
I started a podcast and thought,

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you know what, I'm going to have
enough interesting stories and 

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interesting people to talk to. 
And God knows, I might get to 50

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episodes and it'll be fun doing 
it. 

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And then next thing you know, it
becomes a lifestyle. 

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And I'm doing practically 2 
episodes a week right now. 

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So I appreciate every single one
of you for listening. 

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I appreciate all three hundred 
of our guests. 

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And I appreciate Sarah, my 
sometimes Co host and and 

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producer. 
And she does all the hard work 

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to make sure these things go out
every week. 

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And yeah, I just, I love doing 
this. 

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I appreciate it. 
I appreciate the position I'm 

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in. 
I it's a lot of gratitude here. 

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And so thank you for the first 
300. 

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I promise you we're going to do 
another 300. 

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So you're stuck with me for a 
little while longer if I can get

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rid of this cough. 
And so today's guest is a good 

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friend of mine for a very, very 
long time. 

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And he reached out to me a long 
time ago. 

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It's pretty funny. 
He reached out and said, Marcel,

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I don't care what it takes, but 
I am #300 I want to be on #300 

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And so I said, you know what, 
let's make that happen. 

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And so we decided to make him 
#300 And I'm sorry, but I got to

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take a sip of my water because I
can't stop choking here for some

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crazy reason. 
So today's guest, if you're in 

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England and you're in our 
industry, you probably know him.

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00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:43,920
If you're not in England and 
you're not in our industry, you 

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00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:46,160
probably don't. 
I mean, unless he owes you money

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00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:49,320
or something. 
Steve Watts is the founder and 

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managing director of Abstract 
AVR. 

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He's a pioneer in LED lighting, 
innovation and architectural, 

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entertainment and commercial 
sectors. 

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With over 35 years in the 
industry. 

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He's designed groundbreaking 
products like the Twister, one 

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00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:08,320
of the most reproduced disco 
lights, and the VR8 Intelligence

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00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,080
scanner. 
From his early days as a DJ and 

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00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:14,400
lighting designer in Europe to 
revolutionizing LED solutions 

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00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:20,760
for major brands like Topshop, 
Asda, Asta, Asta, Sorry, Steve 

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00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:22,760
has always been ahead of the 
curve. 

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00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:26,120
A licensed helicopter pilot had 
been on his helicopter. 

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00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,600
It was a scary experience, but 
we'll talk about that later. 

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00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,920
And relentless innovator, he 
continues to push the boundaries

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00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:35,760
of lighting technology, ensuring
Abstract AVR remains at the 

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forefront of the industry. 
I'm really looking forward to 

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00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:41,360
this. 
Please welcome Mr. Steve Watts. 

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00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:45,040
Steven, Hello myself. 
How are you? 

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00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:47,160
You know, I'm, I'm very good, 
thank you. 

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00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:49,520
Yeah. 
You have the fanciest background

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00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:52,360
I think we've ever had on this 
show, except the last time you 

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00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:55,560
were on it. 
Look. 

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00:12:56,400 --> 00:13:00,680
I I owe, I owe, I owe my entire 
life to the entertainment 

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00:13:00,680 --> 00:13:01,880
industry. 
Don't I really? 

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00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:06,000
Yeah, like literally probably. 
It was literally I started in 

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00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:09,480
entertainment when I was 13 
years old and I and I went and 

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00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:12,400
bought myself all the kit on my 
mum's credit card, obviously 

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00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:15,360
started my own mobile disco 
roadshow. 

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00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:17,320
And that's what's behind you 
there right now. 

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00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,560
Well, that's kind of, I guess 
it's a little. 

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00:13:20,560 --> 00:13:24,200
Updated it's got some LEDs and 
stuff, but yeah, it looks it 

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00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:26,280
looks cool. 
Now I know you've you've been in

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00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:30,360
it for life like you absolutely.
We'll get into how you and I 

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00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:35,760
met, but so you you were a 
mobile DJ at 13 and then what? 

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00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:38,920
Yeah, 13. 
And then kind of like, I guess I

227
00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:41,320
came a little bit 
entrepreneurial, started trying 

228
00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:42,960
to build my own speakers as you 
do. 

229
00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:46,080
The solder pair blew up on the 
first night. 

230
00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:50,960
And you thought maybe, maybe 
sound isn't my thing. 

231
00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:54,080
I learned very quickly that 
customer service wasn't my 

232
00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:57,000
strongest point. 
Right. 

233
00:13:57,280 --> 00:13:59,480
Yeah, well, you've figured it 
out a bit over the years. 

234
00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:00,840
I. 
Think out over the years that 

235
00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:04,000
sound was not for me and and I 
did an awful lot better job with

236
00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:07,160
lighting than ever did with 
yeah, we tried I tried smoke 

237
00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:08,840
machines. 
I tried a bit of everything over

238
00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:12,960
the years, but lighting was the 
one and it was kind of a real 

239
00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:15,560
funny twist of fate. 
You know, like when you were you

240
00:14:15,560 --> 00:14:19,920
were a mobile on DJI was working
for a High Street store selling 

241
00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:22,920
high is ironically, and this 
bloke came down and says, oh, 

242
00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:27,000
can you sell me hi-fi. 
So I played a a tape to him, 

243
00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:29,840
which I was a DJ on trying to 
sell him the eye Fi and he goes,

244
00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:34,440
is that you on there Says yeah, 
he goes, why don't you you DJ 

245
00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,360
says yes, why don't you become 
an international DJ and come and

246
00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:42,760
work for me in in Denmark. 
And so it like 17 years old. 

247
00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:45,680
I left home. 
An offer went to Denmark. 

248
00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:47,880
That's hilarious. 
OK, right. 

249
00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:51,920
Here's the kicker, right. 
Two years later, I was in in a 

250
00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:54,840
nightclub called Mikmak in 
Carlton Kirkin in Hamburg. 

251
00:14:56,320 --> 00:15:00,000
And this German guy came up to 
the DJ Pipuv. 

252
00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,040
He's talking to me. 
He says, oh, do you speak 

253
00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:03,960
German? 
I said, yeah, yeah, I could 

254
00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:04,960
speak German. 
Yes. 

255
00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:07,800
Well, I speak no English and I 
need a a translator. 

256
00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:09,320
Would you like to come and work 
for me? 

257
00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:14,040
But in this go lighting company 
in Madrid, Spain, right. 

258
00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:16,840
And I went, yeah. 
Well then you spoke enough 

259
00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:19,320
German to be able to translate 
for this guy. 

260
00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:21,480
You can I'll find this as good 
as Deutsche. 

261
00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:23,760
BECKEN, OH. 
Not as good as. 

262
00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:26,000
Would you? 
Would you like cream and sugar 

263
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,640
with that, Sir? 
Not as good as, but. 

264
00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:32,240
Yeah, yeah. 
And that's, that's where I, 

265
00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:37,560
that's where I went to, to, to 
Spain and started to learn to 

266
00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:40,880
manufacture disco night. 
It's in Pepe's copper loose. 

267
00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:44,360
It was called where all the 
where all the sort of like, you 

268
00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:47,560
know, the satells and all those 
early, early adopters of disco 

269
00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:48,040
lights. 
I. 

270
00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:52,200
Remember Satell A? 
Staff that and their own 

271
00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:55,680
businesses, right? 
And there I was and I couldn't 

272
00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:57,520
speak of a single word of 
Spanish. 

273
00:15:57,960 --> 00:15:59,840
So that was a real problem 
because they're all Spanish, 

274
00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:00,520
right? 
Yeah. 

275
00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:04,560
So I remember Dave, Dave from 
Jive Life, who was a massive 

276
00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:08,400
distributor of disco lights in 
England, rang up Coppola and 

277
00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:11,560
said, oh, these scanner things, 
you know, the motors keep 

278
00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:14,400
dropping off, can you fix it? 
So I had to go on the production

279
00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:17,320
line and fix the problem, then 
show the Spanish how to fix it. 

280
00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:19,800
Right. 
So I'll learn to build lights. 

281
00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:21,360
Really. 
Yeah. 

282
00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:24,680
Interesting mission. 
I said, look, you, you started 

283
00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:27,440
designing them. 
So I designed probably a range 

284
00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,320
of 10 lights, including one bin,
of course, a twister. 

285
00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:34,680
But it was like I was the size 
and the way we, the way we built

286
00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:39,840
it was, you know, the, you know,
the old sort of like sort of 

287
00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:42,640
spotlights, searchlights, 
massive big lenses. 

288
00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:49,040
So I got one of them, a 575 Watt
bulb, yeah, which was discharge.

289
00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:52,400
And then we had these like 
dustbin lids, I used to call 

290
00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:54,720
them right. 
And we put mirrors all on it and

291
00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:57,320
turned it into this huge 
moonflower. 

292
00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:01,040
And that was the twister. 
And that was a twister. 

293
00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:04,680
So when I came back from from 
Spain, I thought to myself, I've

294
00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:06,640
got to make one of these for 
mobile DJs, haven't I? 

295
00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:09,800
That's how the Twister started. 
That was the very, very first 

296
00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:12,880
Twister, and we went to Plaza in
1991. 

297
00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:15,599
So wait a second though, were 
you abstract by now? 

298
00:17:16,839 --> 00:17:19,040
Yeah. 
Well, when I came back from when

299
00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:22,680
I came back from Spain, I 
started up in a garage in the 

300
00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:24,319
garage, right, Tiny little 
house. 

301
00:17:24,319 --> 00:17:27,119
I had two-bedroom house and a 
garage and that's where I 

302
00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:28,880
started building the twister, 
right. 

303
00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:31,560
Yeah. 
And that's where abstract was 

304
00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:36,280
was formed out of a garage. 
And I used abstract because it 

305
00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:39,640
began with an A And in the olden
days you had the Yellow Pages. 

306
00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:41,120
I don't know what you had in 
America. 

307
00:17:41,120 --> 00:17:42,200
Right. 
No, of course. 

308
00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:45,000
Yeah. 
So it was like AAA lighting A A 

309
00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:48,160
a lighting company. 
AA lighting because it didn't 

310
00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:50,680
make any sense. 
AB was the next nearest 1, so 

311
00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:52,280
you'd come up first the search, 
right? 

312
00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:54,680
Yeah, that's abstract. 
That's why it was abstract. 

313
00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,600
That's funny. 
It is, but the the you know the 

314
00:17:57,600 --> 00:17:59,360
fun thing is in 1991. 
Try. 

315
00:17:59,360 --> 00:18:02,240
Explaining that to your kids or 
your kids kids, you know what I 

316
00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:02,920
mean? 
They'll be like. 

317
00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:09,120
You know, it is that Chuck Davis
from American DJ came onto the 

318
00:18:09,120 --> 00:18:12,600
stand in 1991. 
He saw this twister, right? 

319
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:16,000
And he went, Oh my God, that's 
so spooky, right? 

320
00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:19,400
Because no matter how loud I've 
made the music or how soft I 

321
00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:21,360
made the music, it's still dance
to the music. 

322
00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,000
It was the circuit that's 
inside. 

323
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,320
It was an old dancing flower. 
Do you remember them? 

324
00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:29,160
I don't. 
Them, them flowers. 

325
00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:32,880
And you, you, you make a sound. 
Oh yeah, that's right. 

326
00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:35,680
That's hilarious. 
That's the sounds light system 

327
00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:36,280
in a. 
Twist. 

328
00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:38,400
Is that true? 
Because you know, I was going to

329
00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:43,720
ask you like you always had the 
best sound to light of like the 

330
00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:48,200
Chinese, the European fixtures, 
none of that stuff worked near 

331
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:50,800
as well as yours did. 
Your sound to light was just 

332
00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:52,200
smooth and on time. 
What? 

333
00:18:52,360 --> 00:18:54,640
Do you think right is I was 
coming back from Cornwall with 

334
00:18:54,640 --> 00:19:01,320
my first wife Marcia and we'd 
got about £20 left right and 

335
00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:05,640
times were hard back in the 
early days and so it was either 

336
00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:10,360
the £20 were on petrol or a 
split it 10 LB petrol £10 and I 

337
00:19:10,360 --> 00:19:13,520
bought a dancing flower and when
I got home she. 

338
00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:15,440
Probably wanted to kill you at 
this point. 

339
00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:20,400
Split dancing power in half 
right Took me to pieces all over

340
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:21,320
the floor. 
She's like what? 

341
00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:22,640
What the hell are you doing 
right? 

342
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:24,800
And so I said I'll need the 
board out of this because it's a

343
00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:27,760
little 5 Volt battery board. 
And then I took it down to the 

344
00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:31,440
electronics place and turned it 
into a triac driven 240 Volt. 

345
00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:33,360
Yeah. 
Let me ask you though, you see 

346
00:19:33,360 --> 00:19:38,080
this dancing flower in the 
petrol station and you think I 

347
00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:40,240
got to have that? 
That's my new lighting fixture. 

348
00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:46,560
Absolutely like that and it when
all right and I went when come 

349
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:50,840
on, hang on a minute. 
This is really that's hilarious.

350
00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:53,280
So so that's why I had to have 
it right. 

351
00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:57,640
And so that wild twister and the
twister was like insanely 

352
00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:00,880
excellent sounds like but. 
Did you go to the company that 

353
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,280
like did you find out who made 
that little chip and or did you 

354
00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:06,520
just copy the chip, reverse 
engineered it? 

355
00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:10,440
Like, yeah, and this was 
something in it, yeah, bits out 

356
00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:11,840
of it and reconfigured it into 
a. 

357
00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:14,240
Maintenance. 
I mean, can you tell me at this 

358
00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:16,720
point what was so special about 
it, why it was different? 

359
00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:21,360
It what it had was an automatic 
gain control on it and AG's 

360
00:20:21,360 --> 00:20:25,280
which allowed it to go up and 
down ramp and then just take the

361
00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:27,560
difference. 
Between the Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

362
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,840
Well, because they usually had a
little volume control and you 

363
00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:34,360
could either set it for really 
loud or for really quiet, and it

364
00:20:34,360 --> 00:20:36,600
was always screwed up somewhere 
in between, you know? 

365
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:39,680
Program systemi obviously we're 
very annoyed because they had 

366
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,520
the knob on the back, so you 
know, so mine had none of that. 

367
00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,520
It was just microphone and it 
just went right. 

368
00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:52,040
Yeah, we sold over civilian 
like, Oh no, it's it's retarded 

369
00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:55,120
amounts here. 
Yeah, it's way over 10,000 more.

370
00:20:55,120 --> 00:20:56,880
It'll be way more. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

371
00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:58,800
Not many. 
It was absolutely ridiculous. 

372
00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:00,560
It was obviously the twisted 
one. 

373
00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:02,400
The twist 2 the twist, 3 the 
twist. 

374
00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:06,160
Well, I remember I used to take 
the piss because like every year

375
00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:10,640
at the trade show, every year 
you'd you'd get up with your 

376
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,560
suit on and you'd go accept your
award for the Twister, whatever 

377
00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:16,200
number it was this time, right. 
That's the just the lighting 

378
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:20,400
product goes to Steve Watts from
Abstract for the Twister 17. 

379
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:24,000
But the but the fun thing is 
that every and even to this day,

380
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:29,400
every single Chinese light has 
got the DNA of that dancing 

381
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,960
flower in it. 
Yeah, well, I mean, it all 

382
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:34,640
started somewhere, right? 
And that's one of the things 

383
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:39,240
probably I like the most about 
this podcast is almost every 

384
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:45,360
person on here is some sort of 
a, you know, the beginning of 

385
00:21:45,360 --> 00:21:48,440
whether it's a speaker system or
a technology or a lighting 

386
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:50,560
package or controls or 
something. 

387
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,080
All these people were there at 
the formation of this industry, 

388
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,720
right? 
And you were, they were very 

389
00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,320
early in the disco lighting side
of things, you know. 

390
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:03,160
I know you, you often laugh and 
you always giggle because 

391
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:06,920
obviously I've, I've had a major
sort of following, you know, of 

392
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:08,800
PT Johansson. 
But that's only because at the 

393
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:13,800
time, Peter was so pioneering 
when it came, you know, with the

394
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:17,360
robo scans and all that, it was 
super pioneering. 

395
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:19,800
And every time I brought 
something newer, it was like, 

396
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:21,000
for me, hard. 
That's great. 

397
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:22,800
That's great. 
Because I can take that concept 

398
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:24,840
now. 
I can make it even a little less

399
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:28,400
expensive than what he's done in
a little bit more. 

400
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:30,640
Yeah. 
And sell a ton of them. 

401
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:31,720
Right. 
And. 

402
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:34,920
Don't get me wrong, I admired 
the hell out of that guy. 

403
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:38,120
Like, it's just that in the end 
it kind of went sideways, you 

404
00:22:38,120 --> 00:22:40,440
know? 
And, and I was a victim of that.

405
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,240
Like I, I would have loved to 
have continued my career at 

406
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,600
COMAR, but I couldn't. 
I had to leave because I would 

407
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,480
have gone to jail. 
You know, I didn't really have a

408
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:49,720
choice. 
I had to get out of there. 

409
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,280
Yeah. 
I mean, it was Well, don't, I 

410
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:57,440
don't know if you remember, but 
the CFO for Komar in the US, his

411
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,880
name, he was a, a Danish guy, 
you know his name, the CFO, the 

412
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,800
guy who was. 
Controlling the money flow like.

413
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:05,840
Peter. 
Say it to me, I'll know. 

414
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:08,200
Bent. 
His name was Bent. 

415
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:11,360
Go figure. 
I mean, I don't know. 

416
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:13,520
Could that be a sign? 
I don't know. 

417
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:14,640
Yeah. 
So of. 

418
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:18,120
Course every summer went to 
Plaza and I see PCI haven't seen

419
00:23:18,120 --> 00:23:22,360
it and I see Gerard coming with 
it. 

420
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:24,200
Yeah, yeah, Gerard's still doing
it. 

421
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,720
He's did. 
You see, he started a lighting 

422
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,400
line with his sons, but Gerard's
involved. 

423
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:33,640
Gerard's in his 80s now. 
He's like 82 or 83 and God bless

424
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,360
him, he's still passionate about
it for some reason. 

425
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:37,600
When are you sitting in your 
blood though? 

426
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:41,920
You're ready on here. 
I guess like he's he, he is a 

427
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,080
peddler to the core. 
He loves selling things. 

428
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:49,400
He loves talking to customers 
and finding solutions and stuff.

429
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,120
And he still loves it. 
Like every time he, he lives in 

430
00:23:52,120 --> 00:23:55,760
Belgium now and he flies in 
through Miami, spends a few days

431
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,360
and always calls me and we'll go
out to lunch or dinner or 

432
00:23:58,360 --> 00:23:59,680
something. 
So I still see him. 

433
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,360
It's a funny thing and and I I 
believe with podcasts, you know,

434
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,000
you can only ever tell the truth
on a podcast because 2P too many

435
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:08,880
people. 
No and then no. 

436
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:10,240
You'll get called out. 
Right. 

437
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:11,600
And you're going to get called 
out. 

438
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:12,400
Oh. 
Hell yeah. 

439
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,200
And and that's why I love our 
podcast, because it's so honest 

440
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,400
and so truthful. 
Another problem, though, Steve, 

441
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:21,760
is as we get older, sometimes I 
spin a story because I forget, 

442
00:24:22,120 --> 00:24:23,600
you know? 
So I just kind of fill in the 

443
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:27,480
blanks with what I remember and 
people will call me and go, you 

444
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,480
idiot, that wasn't Bob, that was
John or something. 

445
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,440
It's like, you know, it's like 
people like say Joseph, Yeah, 

446
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,960
for Robe, you know, analysts 
would never have been analysts 

447
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,200
if it wasn't for me, you know, 
and that's in reality because 

448
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:46,240
AVR started all of that stuff 
and then he got I analyst in it.

449
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:47,480
At the end of the day, that's 
the true. 

450
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,160
I find it looks kind of similar.
How you want to look at it, it's

451
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:51,520
the. 
Trick and then they hire your 

452
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,000
your mate and. 
Then they hire, yeah, we get 

453
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:58,320
that done because John, I think 
it was John and Connor, I think 

454
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:02,440
was involved in something. 
Yeah, I mean in the house. 

455
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:04,400
I'm not certainly not going to 
get into the insurance now. 

456
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:05,880
You know it doesn't matter 
anyway. 

457
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:09,520
Manufacturing then was done over
it robe yeah, that's that's how 

458
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:11,920
I would put it together whether 
it's yeah, don't know, but 

459
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:13,520
that's how I see it. 
Yeah, yeah. 

460
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,480
And I think whatever that was. 
Became analyst. 

461
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:20,400
Yeah, exactly. 
It's not that shocking to me. 

462
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,640
You know it it like again, 
nothing against Robey or 

463
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,640
analysts or Han or anybody. 
I like them all. 

464
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:28,160
I was. 
Looking at I was looking at 

465
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,760
their website, Robey the other 
day and you have to admire, 

466
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:33,520
don't you? 
You have to admire how far 

467
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:38,080
that's gone from Jesus in 94 and
95 when it was. 

468
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:39,800
Incredible. 
It was applying somebody like 

469
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:41,240
Steiniger or something in 
Germany. 

470
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,360
They were and Komar, Komar. 
They were making the low end 

471
00:25:44,360 --> 00:25:47,080
Komar stuff. 
They were making those, those 

472
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,120
like the future light line, they
were making for everyone. 

473
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:54,440
Of course, their growth then 
was, was restricted by how well 

474
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:58,400
the distributors did, wasn't it?
So I guess, you know, I guess 

475
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:00,960
Jody thought, you know what, I 
think I can do better than this.

476
00:26:01,120 --> 00:26:04,160
But it was also and I had this, 
I'll never forget the 

477
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,200
conversation and Joseph, you 
know, conveniently forgets it. 

478
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:12,400
But Joseph and I, we were at 
Remini and he had his little 

479
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:16,560
booth there and, you know, tiny 
little booth back in the corner 

480
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:22,960
next to Co F or something, you 
know, and and I said, Joseph, 

481
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:27,360
why are you doing this? 
Like white label stuff, you 

482
00:26:27,360 --> 00:26:30,600
know, this OEM manufacturing for
other companies or whatever. 

483
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,640
Why are you doing this? 
And he said, well, because, you 

484
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,040
know, we're very popular now 
because not everybody wants to 

485
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,520
buy from China. 
And I said, but you know, the 

486
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,880
problem is you have to have the 
lowest price because as soon as 

487
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:43,840
you don't have the lowest price,
people are going to buy from 

488
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:45,800
your neighbor or the guy down 
the street. 

489
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:50,560
And there were other companies 
starting up in Poland in check. 

490
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,800
I think it was bold with him to,
to, to sort of like sack all 

491
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:56,600
that off and go, right. 
I'm going for Robe. 

492
00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:01,000
But, but we had that 
conversation and, and we both 

493
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,640
agreed like you have to go out 
as your own brand because 

494
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,880
otherwise you're going to be a 
low margin company that 

495
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:11,200
eventually you're going to get 
priced out and you won't be able

496
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:15,280
to compete in this white label 
market and everybody will be 

497
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,400
buying from China. 
And so at least with your own 

498
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,440
brand, you can protect it and 
and we had a great conversation 

499
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,400
about it. 
So maybe it was you there was 

500
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,320
this. 
No, no, it certainly wasn't my 

501
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,280
idea. 
He had plans, obviously, and he 

502
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,760
obviously had capital too 
because you know, to build what 

503
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:33,760
he built, you don't need to 
cheap. 

504
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,480
His office in his in his office,
he's got every single magazine 

505
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,920
ever from the, from every single
disco Mirror magazine, every 

506
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:46,280
single really magazine, every 
magazine you can think of to all

507
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,160
that. 
That's a bit obsessive. 

508
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:54,560
History of the entire industry. 
Yeah, industry backwards because

509
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,960
research is just insane, you 
know, Is it in in that respect 

510
00:27:59,360 --> 00:28:03,280
it beats, it beats probably 90% 
of all manufacturers in that 

511
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,920
respect, because I guess it's I 
guess it's OCD in it. 

512
00:28:06,360 --> 00:28:08,560
Yeah, he really knows the 
history and stuff. 

513
00:28:09,120 --> 00:28:12,640
I I actually spoke with him 
recently, sadly at a, at a 

514
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:16,800
funeral for one of his employees
and a long time friend of mine, 

515
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,760
Craig Burrows. 
And we were talking about the 

516
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,720
history of the industry and the 
history of Roby and how well 

517
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,320
he's done. 
And I said, you know, when do 

518
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:30,040
you actually sell? 
And he said. 

519
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:31,040
I'm in there. 
What is it? 

520
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,360
He said he won't he he his 
family loves the business. 

521
00:28:34,360 --> 00:28:36,480
His family are already working 
in the business. 

522
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:40,080
His kids love the business. 
And most of the people around 

523
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,480
all the towns. 
He's not going to sell it. 

524
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:44,600
He said what for? 
You know, we have enough money, 

525
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,160
we're good. 
You know why? 

526
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,240
Why sell it? 
Like he doesn't need a big 

527
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:49,640
payday? 
He loves the business. 

528
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,360
He still loves travelling. 
He he loves the business. 

529
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,640
So why would you, you know, and 
I mean, as long as you're on top

530
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,160
of the world, hey, go for it, 
you know? 

531
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,680
But you and I both know, and 
everyone typically knows, that 

532
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:05,000
eventually somebody knocks you 
off that perch and. 

533
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,840
And it gets problematic. 
The bubble burst is it and and 

534
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:11,120
it's how you respond to that 
bubble, that burst, which is 

535
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:13,480
most important. 
And we've all had a knock backs 

536
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,600
through throughout the years. 
You know, the last, you know, 

537
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:20,240
the last couple of years for 
certainly for me as abstract was

538
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,560
a was a really tough time. 
You know when we when we lost 

539
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,480
the factory to fire. 
Yeah, that was crazy. 

540
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:28,280
Was that arson or what? 
What was it? 

541
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:32,040
No, no, it was a, it was a, a 
laser cutting machine that cuts 

542
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:35,400
plastics that we believe 
malfunctioned in one way or 

543
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,120
another. 
And we couldn't get in it to put

544
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,200
it out because they kind of like
clamp themselves down. 

545
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:46,000
And the heat was so intense that
we, we couldn't the lid on the 

546
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,000
top, the the kind of like 
plastic lids on the top. 

547
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:52,200
And once that imploded, then the
flames just went and went over 

548
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,120
everybody's heads. 
At that point, it's like, get 

549
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:55,800
out. 
And was that the same building 

550
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:59,120
that I was in years ago where 
your office was upstairs and. 

551
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,680
Rebuilding now it's, we've got a
new place. 

552
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:06,960
We've got two factories now, so 
one which is very much now, 

553
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,120
although it's supporting 
abstract massively at the 

554
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,000
moment. 
Abstract will go back to its 

555
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,040
original home. 
Yeah, cool and new. 

556
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,560
The new sort of abstract, as I 
call it, will obviously be 

557
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:19,440
developing still out all the 
stuff we're doing. 

558
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,160
Aeronautical, yeah. 
What's that? 

559
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:28,400
Helicopters. 
Oh, so not helicopters but stuff

560
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,880
for helicopters? 
Stuff, lots of stuff. 

561
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,160
That's interesting. 
So much irony, right? 

562
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,840
There's so much irony in this 
because when we go back to 

563
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:42,440
1990s, when I first started and 
and before that, we was using 

564
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:48,080
the lighting off aircraft as the
past 36 is the past 60 fours. 

565
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:49,920
They were all lighting from 
aircraft. 

566
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:51,320
That's what they were. 
Yeah. 

567
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,320
We use them in pin spots and pin
spot scanners and helicopters 

568
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,800
and power, you know, 64 cannons,
didn't we? 

569
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:58,880
Yeah, that's what they are at 
the end of the day. 

570
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:03,320
And of course now it's reversed 
around where a lighting 

571
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,680
manufacturer is now designing 
lighting for aircraft. 

572
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:08,680
It's. 
Wild, isn't it? 

573
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,480
Well, it's also cool when you 
can make money off of your 

574
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,640
passion, you know, like I tried 
that for a minute in 

575
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:17,920
Motorsports. 
I was like, that's a great idea 

576
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:19,600
and it didn't work. 
It was a nightmare. 

577
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:24,120
It cost me money. 
But I always like, like if I'm 

578
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,360
going to get into something, 
whether it's boating or 

579
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,040
something that I'm interested 
in, I want to find a way to make

580
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:30,800
money on it to pay for that 
hobby. 

581
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:32,160
You know what I mean? 
Like that's not. 

582
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,720
Is it? 
It's not in principle sounds 

583
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,520
great, but. 
Yeah, let's see, you probably 

584
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,360
tried breeding horses or 
something at one point, I'm 

585
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,240
sure. 
Or that's another game. 

586
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,440
That's that's quite, quite 
expensive, But you know, one 

587
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,080
thing that you're reminding me 
of, like because you know, I'm 

588
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,160
not blowing smoke up your skirt 
or anything, but you've always 

589
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:54,160
been an innovator. 
You've always been an extreme 

590
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:56,520
innovator. 
Like, and you know, I'm going to

591
00:31:56,520 --> 00:32:00,320
name a few things like so the 
the twister, as goofy as it is 

592
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:04,600
today, and it's it's a little 
moonflower, but it did, and I 

593
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:08,800
know this because I sold them. 
It did have the very best sound 

594
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:13,480
to light activation of anything 
like it just it moved better and

595
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:15,920
it triggered better. 
Like the other thing was like 

596
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:18,480
Martin once went like this very 
erratic. 

597
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,840
Yours was like, it was almost 
like it had brakes at both ends 

598
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,440
and it was just really smooth 
how it moved, you know it. 

599
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,160
Had to what? 
What I call elastication, yeah. 

600
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:29,680
No, it's just awesome. 
Good. 

601
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,720
We as we, we, we put in 
acceleration and the 

602
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:38,240
acceleration curves, yeah, but. 
So I mean there was that and and

603
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:42,840
then there was the, I don't 
remember which came first, but I

604
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,880
remember being at Plaza and 
seeing your downlight, your AVR 

605
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:50,080
downlight. 
And at the time, I mean every 

606
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:55,720
club and restaurant I knew 
wanted color changing downlights

607
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:57,200
and there was no such thing, 
right? 

608
00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,520
This was pre. 
LED Oh this is pre. 

609
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,640
This was an MR16 lump. 
With a color wheel. 

610
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,960
With a colour wheel in front of 
it with diaper filters, right? 

611
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:07,920
It was. 
It was. 

612
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,320
Yeah. 
Bloody amazing, as you would 

613
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:12,680
say. 
And I mean, I remember that and 

614
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,280
we had a problem because we 
couldn't get UL on it or 

615
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:17,200
whatever. 
But aside from that, that thing 

616
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,520
was the cat's meow. 
Like everyone I showed it to was

617
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,920
like, I won 1000, I won 1000, I 
won 100, I won 500. 

618
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,560
It was ridiculous. 
It the the first one starts off 

619
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:29,920
square and then eventually we 
moulded it and made it round, 

620
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,360
yeah, and made it tiltable with 
a tiltable gimbal. 

621
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:34,720
On it, that thing was. 
Killer piece and. 

622
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:36,480
That thing was killer. 
Yeah. 

623
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,800
And the irony is that that 
specific products ultimately 

624
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:45,080
ended up in going into retail as
the world's first of light white

625
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,520
track light. 
That same Alden was was used as 

626
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:50,640
a track light just about. 
It's a bezel. 

627
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:55,120
Yeah, so there was that, there 
was the the VR8 scanner, which 

628
00:33:55,120 --> 00:34:02,840
is like to me that was one 
probably the most like artful, 

629
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,120
you know, lighting fixtures 
ever. 

630
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,120
It it was the void acoustics of 
lighting. 

631
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:10,840
It was the void acoustics of 
lighting. 

632
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:14,440
If you think of VR eights next 
to void speakers, perfect mate, 

633
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,639
right, You know perfect we. 
Sold a lot of them and. 

634
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,520
We sold a lot of them in the US.
That's when you and I got 

635
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:22,840
together and I started 
distributing them for you for a 

636
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:24,560
little. 
While it went in the main into 

637
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,480
like, you know, like sort of 
bars in the daytime want to be 

638
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:31,719
coffee bars and stuff that not 
became discount to those places 

639
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:33,360
brilliantly because they didn't 
look ugly. 

640
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:35,760
And beautiful. 
We're on the wall and and not 

641
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:39,520
even bother switching him on. 
Yeah, that thing, that thing was

642
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:41,560
outrageously beautiful. 
It was. 

643
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:45,920
And then I, I mean, again, you, 
you were one of the very 

644
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:50,520
earliest, if not the earliest 
LED manufacturer who sort of 

645
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,400
flipped the bird to color 
kinetics and said we're not 

646
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:55,679
copying anything you're doing. 
We're going to go ahead and sell

647
00:34:55,679 --> 00:34:58,000
our products and. 
Why? 

648
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:03,120
So you had all kinds of color 
changers and stuff and, and, and

649
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:06,120
managed to sell them. 
And, you know, I, again, I know 

650
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,320
I sold a lot of them in the US 
as well. 

651
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:12,960
And so I mean, what I'm getting 
at, the point I'm getting at, 

652
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:16,400
I've also in my career, I've 
been an innovator and not that 

653
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,640
I've actually come up with, you 
know, physical products that 

654
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,520
I've made or anything, but I've 
been behind the scenes saying 

655
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:24,520
make this, make this, make this,
make this. 

656
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,560
And also, you know, one of the 
things I'm really proud of. 

657
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:30,920
And I was talking to somebody 
from Martin about this the other

658
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:34,400
day. 
I named the, the Mac like it. 

659
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,800
That was, that was me when they 
came out with that first 

660
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:42,400
obnoxious Mac 1200. 
The the big huge thing that 

661
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:47,920
caught fire and stuff. 
Peter Johansson comes in into 

662
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:51,920
the office in Florida one day 
and he goes, OK, he brings the 

663
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:55,840
whole team together and he says,
OK, we need to name this new 

664
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:57,520
product. 
And he shows us pictures and 

665
00:35:57,520 --> 00:35:59,920
brochures and stuff and tells us
what it does. 

666
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:05,840
And he says, I'll give you a 30 
days and whoever gets it right 

667
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,840
I'll give you 500 bucks or I 
think it was, I'll give you 7 

668
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,320
days and whoever gets it right 
I'll give you a 500 bucks. 

669
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:14,800
And I go, how about Mac? 
And he goes, what's it mean? 

670
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:18,160
And I said Martin automated 
color wash. 

671
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:23,040
And he goes, that's it. 
And so he says that's it, that's

672
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,040
the name. 
So he walks out of the room and 

673
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,280
I go, hang on a SEC. 
You know, little bit of business

674
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:30,480
here mate. 
You got to be far under. 

675
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:33,160
It yeah. 
So, you know, Peter was classic 

676
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:35,880
for that, though, like offering 
something that never really 

677
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,640
turned up. 
You know, the other thing was he

678
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:41,080
stole your pen. 
Like, I'm sure he's stolen some 

679
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:44,720
of your pens, but I always had 
AI, always had a Mont Blanc back

680
00:36:44,720 --> 00:36:47,080
then, and he stole it every time
I saw him. 

681
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:49,440
Oh my God. 
Can I borrow your pen for a 

682
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:51,440
second and I'd hand it to him. 
He never see it again. 

683
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:52,920
Never see it again. 
I. 

684
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,680
Remember, the greatest, the 
greatest Martin moment we ever 

685
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:58,040
had is at abstract. 
Because Marx, it was always a 

686
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:00,960
big thing, right? 
And we always wanted to to get 

687
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:05,040
one over on, on Martin, which 
was always difficult until we 

688
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:10,000
went to the show in Rimini, 
right, And the Rose and Crown 

689
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:11,920
pub. 
We decided we're going to 

690
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:13,960
sponsor it. 
I remember I was there. 

691
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:18,400
That's right. 
And then I was there. 22 bus 

692
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:22,720
loads of moth tin people turn on
and the first thing I did when 

693
00:37:22,720 --> 00:37:25,160
peace came in he pour cocktail 
stick in his top pocket. 

694
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,120
I remember, I remember I was 
there. 

695
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,800
I was with them. 
That was just a genius. 

696
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:31,640
Moment. 
Yeah. 

697
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:36,040
And Ian Kirby was furious. 
He was so mad. 

698
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,560
He was pissed. 
And we got, we, we had VR as 

699
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:41,160
everywhere. 
Do you remember? 

700
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:43,960
Yeah, I do. 
I do that. 

701
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,120
Show was so much fun. 
I missed that show, but but the 

702
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:51,880
long point I was getting at was 
this industry like you've done 

703
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:55,600
very well, I've done very well, 
but I haven't done Joseph well. 

704
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:57,840
I haven't done Peter Johansson 
well, nor of you. 

705
00:37:58,240 --> 00:38:02,400
And you know, it seems like the 
innovators get run over and the 

706
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:06,160
other people grab the ideas sort
of mid flight and sell a billion

707
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:07,720
of them. 
You know, it's like, look at all

708
00:38:07,720 --> 00:38:11,560
the products you designed that 
Chuck Davies ended up getting 

709
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:15,560
manufactured in China and then 
just selling a billion of them. 

710
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,800
The rave. 
Oh my God, The raves we sold 

711
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:22,760
was, yeah, this incredible. 
You know, because it just had 

712
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:24,200
the, it was just totally 
different, wasn't it? 

713
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:26,680
But it was like it was a take on
the Robos app. 

714
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:30,000
Yeah, off the front, I remember.
Right. 

715
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,160
Yeah, I remember you did very 
well with that. 

716
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:34,480
Think what it's done for us all 
though. 

717
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,520
If he was honest is, you know, 
we haven't really worked a day 

718
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:41,000
our lives, have we? 
Because I just do what? 

719
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,400
You know, we do what we like to 
do and we. 

720
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,200
Yeah, at the end of the day, 
when I was 14, I was playing 

721
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,680
with disco lights and I'm still 
playing with lights today. 

722
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:51,520
Yeah. 
Real reality, right? 

723
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:52,200
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

724
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,320
You know, I can't. 
There's been. 

725
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:57,560
I'm not complaining, you know, 
there's been bad times. 

726
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:00,640
Sure there has. 
But you know, in the main it's 

727
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:03,480
been a fantastic, fantastic. 
No, no, I'm not complaining. 

728
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:06,600
I'm just saying this seems to be
how our industry evolves is, is 

729
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:10,880
you get scrappy pioneers and 
they, they create these 

730
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,040
incredible innovative ideas and,
and come up with all these 

731
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:16,280
things. 
And then, you know, someone 

732
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:19,440
who's better funded perhaps 
grabs the idea and says, I'm 

733
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,760
going to go run with that. 
And I'm not saying necessarily 

734
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:25,520
that anyone's stealing anything.
They're advancing the ideas 

735
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:28,760
because every great idea 
requires capital. 

736
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:32,080
It requires A-Team, it requires 
sometimes manufacturing 

737
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:33,840
facilities or whatever it is 
right it. 

738
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:35,840
Takes really brave as well, 
doesn't it? 

739
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:39,880
Because, you know, you take a 
product that's maybe not 

740
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,920
necessarily your own, let's say 
and decide to run with it and 

741
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:45,440
you run heavily with it. 
You know you've got to throw 

742
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:48,320
some money at it, right? 
Yeah, it might not work out. 

743
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:52,600
Yeah, 100% guarantee is. 
So, you know, I think the, the, 

744
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,520
the people that have run with 
great ideas do deserve it. 

745
00:39:55,920 --> 00:40:00,480
Yeah. 
I have I have no, no thoughts to

746
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:04,080
say that anybody that's ever 
followed in my footsteps. 

747
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:07,400
I don't feel bad about that. 
I just see it now, you know, I 

748
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:11,920
see it actually is, is quite a 
positive thing, something right?

749
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:14,080
Well, no. 
And at the end of the day, like 

750
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:17,560
it's also the way I was raised, 
you know, like when I, when I 

751
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,880
lived in Canada and I was a kid 
growing up and we didn't have 

752
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:24,800
any money. 
And at the time, like now in, in

753
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:27,800
Calgary where I grew up, there's
there's Ferrari dealers and 

754
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:30,520
Lamborghini and Rolls Royce and 
everything, right? 

755
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:34,280
There's huge money there. 
But back in the day when a 

756
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:38,000
Mercedes drove by, I would stop 
my friends and I'd be like. 

757
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:42,240
Whoa, get that? 
You know, and nowadays people 

758
00:40:42,240 --> 00:40:44,840
would go, what a douchebag, you 
know, he shouldn't be driving, 

759
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:46,400
that he doesn't deserve it or 
whatever. 

760
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:51,560
Back then it was like, man, I 
want to work hard and, and earn 

761
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:54,600
one of those like I whatever 
he's doing, that guy's the man. 

762
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:58,040
I want to, I want to follow him 
and, and learn from him and 

763
00:40:58,040 --> 00:40:58,600
stuff. 
Right. 

764
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:00,480
Like we appreciated it. 
Yeah. 

765
00:41:00,720 --> 00:41:05,360
But now it's, I think most many 
of us automatically go to like 

766
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:07,760
some sort of jealousy or 
something when someone is doing 

767
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:10,760
better than you or has a bigger 
car or a better this or a 

768
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,840
whatever. 
And I just don't buy into that. 

769
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,160
Like, I love what I do, like you
said. 

770
00:41:16,240 --> 00:41:17,720
You don't really. 
Work a day and. 

771
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:21,840
You know, we, we will never, we 
will never be necessarily, you 

772
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:25,440
know, at the top of the tree, 
but never be at the bottom of 

773
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:29,240
the tree, right? 
As long as we're not the roots. 

774
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:32,440
As long as you keep pushing on, 
you know, pushing forward, it's 

775
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:33,480
going to be it's going to be 
good. 

776
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:36,160
And innovation is something 
that, you know, I've not stopped

777
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:39,880
to that when when we brought out
the the abstract X life, for 

778
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:45,560
example, that because it all had
DMX macros in it was created DMX

779
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:47,960
to pixel macros. 
You know, we were the first to 

780
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:51,280
do that. 
And then, you know, I've, I'm 

781
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:53,960
not saying for one second that 
anyone's copying anybody. 

782
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,320
I'm not saying that. 
Yeah, for certain. 

783
00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:02,760
I'm sure that the inspiration of
some of the American pixel 

784
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:07,640
controlled by DMX macros, you 
know, is definitely has adna of 

785
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:09,640
abstracts in it. 
And I'm pretty sure of that. 

786
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:12,560
Yeah. 
Well, and you know, I can think 

787
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:14,240
of immediately, but I'm I'm not 
going to say. 

788
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:18,040
This, but sometimes it's not 
even, it's not even that direct 

789
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:22,240
of a line, like sometimes it's 
because some manufacturer from 

790
00:42:22,240 --> 00:42:24,640
offshore, let's say. 
So we're not picking on anyone 

791
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:28,800
in particular, but an offshore 
manufacturer sees your product 

792
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:33,040
at a trade show or at a club or 
at a dealer or whatever and 

793
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:34,920
says, oh, this is, this is 
interesting. 

794
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,000
I like this. 
And they'll buy one and they'll 

795
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,360
take it back to their factory, 
reverse engineer it. 

796
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:41,720
Yeah. 
And then and then they just 

797
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:43,400
offer it to the world. 
Right. 

798
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:47,280
And the, the challenge with 
innovation for you and for most 

799
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,760
of the industry today is that it
doesn't pay well because you 

800
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:52,600
innovate something. 
And, you know, one of the 

801
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:56,840
examples I always use is I 
remember going to LDI and seeing

802
00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:01,960
the clay Paki, I think it's 
called the Valero wave or 

803
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:04,560
something, that thing with a 
bunch of lights. 

804
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:06,280
And they go like this and they 
do the wave. 

805
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:12,840
And I saw pictures in a press 
release leading up to LDI and I 

806
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:15,080
thought, what a stupid idea, 
Like what the hell do you need 

807
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:18,040
that for? 
And then I saw their show at LDI

808
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:20,200
and my mind was blown. 
I was like. 

809
00:43:20,240 --> 00:43:23,160
It looks so good. 
Oh my God, Like I couldn't 

810
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:24,960
believe what they did with that 
thing. 

811
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:29,400
And it couldn't have been more 
than a few months later and 

812
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:31,480
Chauvet had one. 
I think it's. 

813
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:34,000
Called the wave or something. 
Yeah. 

814
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:37,320
And. 
That's it's like my son Sam. 

815
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:41,600
He's he's now joined abstract 
and he will show light inside of

816
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:43,520
things going. 
He's he's coming in too slowly 

817
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:44,760
because I said to him, don't 
rush in. 

818
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:47,120
I just let's, let's say that 
you, you really, really want to 

819
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:49,200
do this first before we go mad. 
Yeah. 

820
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:52,400
And I said, look, there's no 
point in you looking at what 

821
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:54,240
everybody else does and go, oh, 
I'm one of them. 

822
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:56,360
You're never going to catch them
up. 

823
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:59,240
You're never going to catch them
up because they've had too much 

824
00:43:59,240 --> 00:44:02,400
of A head start now, right? 
So let's just say you take a, 

825
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:05,920
you know, a robe XXY and you go,
oh, let's make one of them. 

826
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:08,120
There's no point. 
It's just that's right. 

827
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:10,880
So what you've got to do now is 
you've got to come up with 

828
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:13,160
something that is niche, 
something that's totally 

829
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,040
separate, totally individual 
that a lighting designer is 

830
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:18,480
hopefully going to pick up on a 
room with, right? 

831
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:21,480
Because when they run with it, 
everybody's going to run with 

832
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:22,920
it. 
But let me ask you this, Steve, 

833
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:27,400
like are you? 
So does it go into your head now

834
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:29,480
when you're thinking of new 
products like that? 

835
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:33,400
Like I'm going to get a good 12 
months out of this. 

836
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:37,000
So I want to put X amount of 
dollars into development costs 

837
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:40,200
and and R&D and all that stuff 
because I'm going to get 12 

838
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:44,400
months before it gets copied and
and I lose out to the people who

839
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:46,840
are copying because their prices
are 50% less. 

840
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,720
True reality is I think that 
that your return on investment 

841
00:44:49,720 --> 00:44:51,360
has got to come back within two 
years. 

842
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:54,280
I think you've got two years. 
OK, right. 

843
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:58,320
That we brought out the 
excellent, basically was brought

844
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:03,960
out to to stick one up pretty 
pretty much up the freedom 

845
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:05,600
stick. 
Yeah, because the Freedom Stick 

846
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:08,720
was short and stubbly. 
Yeah, Paul, right. 

847
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:11,440
So of course we then became the 
king of the stick. 

848
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:14,520
Yeah, right, right. 
And and what I want to do is, is

849
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:17,520
take it, take their freedom 
stick and turn it into a high 

850
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:22,080
resolution super product, which 
is what it became right? 

851
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:24,400
And behind me now they're X 
lights, ironically. 

852
00:45:25,240 --> 00:45:27,920
But at all though, they, you 
know, they stand well on a 

853
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:29,800
stage. 
They look amazing that, you 

854
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:32,720
know, everything about them. 
It's just a really stunning 

855
00:45:32,720 --> 00:45:33,680
product. 
Yeah. 

856
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:37,200
And and of course then, you 
know, two years down the line, 

857
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:40,240
maybe three years down the line,
then you'll see all of a sudden 

858
00:45:40,240 --> 00:45:43,320
freedom stick that's high 
resolution and got a bit taller.

859
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:45,720
Yeah. 
And and that's, that's this 

860
00:45:45,720 --> 00:45:47,760
industry. 
For you, Yeah, it is, of course.

861
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:50,640
Meantime, we've we've moved on. 
We've moved on to the next 

862
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:52,480
level. 
Yeah, that's what you've got to 

863
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:53,840
do. 
You just got to keep me set 

864
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:56,480
forward. 
But one thing I try not to do is

865
00:45:56,480 --> 00:46:00,120
shout about stuff anymore, only 
because I think it's not my age,

866
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:01,560
I think. 
And. 

867
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:03,480
Calm down a little as we get 
older. 

868
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:06,080
I was 20 or. 30 I'd probably be 
shouting about everything. 

869
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:10,320
When I prefer to design 
something, show it to select 

870
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:12,760
people, keep my mouth short. 
Yeah. 

871
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:14,400
Why? 
Lots and lots of them. 

872
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:16,560
Yeah. 
Yeah, he knows I'm doing it. 

873
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:20,160
Did you say what I mean? 
Well, I mean those, those the X 

874
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:22,640
thing, like you sold a ton of 
those things. 

875
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:25,880
I started seeing them everywhere
and and it was kind of quiet. 

876
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:30,440
And the other thing is like 
you've never really said, most 

877
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:33,280
manufacturers immediately go, 
OK, now we got to conquer the 

878
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:35,840
US. 
You know, the US is the diamond,

879
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:37,960
it's the jewel. 
Like we got to conquer the US. 

880
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:41,360
You've just said I don't need 
to, I need these few little 

881
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:43,760
countries over here and I'm 
going to do, you know, 

882
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:46,920
£2,000,000 in this product and 2
million in this product and a 

883
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:49,880
million in this product and 
that's going to be just fine, 

884
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:52,600
you know, and. 
And not have pressure, not have 

885
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:55,920
the, the, the pressure, the 
monetary pressure, because when 

886
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:59,760
you in, you know, many people 
have said that that the US is a 

887
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:02,720
graveyard of British companies. 
And I think there's a lot of 

888
00:47:02,720 --> 00:47:03,640
truth behind that. 
It's. 

889
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:06,960
Not, not a lie. 
You know, the everything is 

890
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:08,760
different. 
The customer service has got to 

891
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:12,440
be absolutely spot on. 
Everything is right. 

892
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:17,560
So again, be quiet, you know, 
and just do your own thing and 

893
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:20,000
just be quiet about it. 
And for me works. 

894
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:22,120
Yeah, I'm not, I'm not saying 
it's going to put abstract on 

895
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:24,200
the top of Trump Tower. 
I'm not saying that. 

896
00:47:24,240 --> 00:47:29,720
Yeah. 
But it certainly keeps business 

897
00:47:29,720 --> 00:47:34,040
like mine in a very stable 
position and and you're stable, 

898
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:38,560
you know, things stick to. 
You don't they what's what's 

899
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:42,440
your model though like are you 
still distributor, dealer 

900
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:45,080
etcetera or do you have like 
ADTC? 

901
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:48,760
Is what we've become. 
I think more than anything is 

902
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:52,400
I've surround myself with like a
number of partners. 

903
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:54,600
No, I don't call them 
distributors, I don't call them 

904
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:55,800
that. 
I call them partners. 

905
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:58,560
They're very heavily evolved in 
abstract. 

906
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:04,360
So when when we lost abstract to
the fire we had because we made 

907
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:06,640
everything in house, I mean 
absolutely everything we make in

908
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:09,280
house an abstract, right. 
So when we lost the the factory,

909
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:12,320
we were super screwed because we
couldn't buy a contractor and 

910
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:14,600
say help us here because we 
didn't have any contractors, 

911
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:15,200
right. 
Yeah. 

912
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:16,760
I. 
Sat up immediately. 

913
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:22,680
Within three days, 5 pop up 
stores where one was a board 

914
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:26,400
manufacturer, 1 was an LED 
populator, 1 was a yeah. 

915
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:30,080
And I said to the customers, if 
you want your lights, you've got

916
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:31,320
to come over and help me make 
them. 

917
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:36,200
Oh my God, that's hilarious. 
That's really, that's what they 

918
00:48:36,240 --> 00:48:39,080
did. 
I, I had like customers 

919
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:41,680
spending, you know one of them 
spends over £1,000,000 a year 

920
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:43,880
with me and he was there 
building lights. 

921
00:48:44,240 --> 00:48:46,440
That's wild. 
But I said to him, like, look, 

922
00:48:46,720 --> 00:48:49,040
we've got to, you know, all 
you're going to do is worry. 

923
00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:52,160
You're going to be in your 
office worrying that I'm going 

924
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:55,240
to go out of business, right? 
If you come down to me and help 

925
00:48:55,240 --> 00:48:56,640
me. 
That's going to take all you 

926
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:57,520
worry. 
Away, isn't it? 

927
00:48:57,640 --> 00:48:59,080
Yeah. 
You could answer all your 

928
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:00,480
questions, right? 
You haven't answered. 

929
00:49:00,720 --> 00:49:03,440
Ask me anything you know 
yourself if you're going to 

930
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:05,160
survive it, Huh. 
Because you're going to be with 

931
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:06,800
me. 
That's wild. 

932
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:09,360
Wow. 
And it works and it got through,

933
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:11,680
you know? 
Yeah, Well, good on you, man. 

934
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:15,560
Like that's, you know, it's one 
of the probably the biggest 

935
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:19,680
things in business is, is you 
know, to to finish first. 

936
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,720
You got to how do they say it? 
To finish first, first you got 

937
00:49:22,720 --> 00:49:25,520
to finish or something like 
that, like, but I mean, you got 

938
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:29,400
to get there, you know, alive 
and, and you know, my business 

939
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:32,320
has probably died 10 times over 
the years, you know what I mean?

940
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:37,160
It's like, you know, it's like 
Monty Python where you're dead 

941
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:39,840
laying on the ground and 
somebody comes in to pick you up

942
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:41,200
and you're like, I'm. 
Not dead yet. 

943
00:49:42,240 --> 00:49:43,800
Feeling better. 
Look. 

944
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:44,600
Dead. 
I'm not dead. 

945
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:45,160
Promise. 
Yeah. 

946
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:46,480
Promise. 
Yeah, yeah. 

947
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:50,240
To become something you've never
been, you've got to become 

948
00:49:50,240 --> 00:49:53,920
something that you've know, you 
know, or have it done right. 

949
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:57,520
So, yeah, a change your outlook.
And I could have laid down and 

950
00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:01,600
died two days after that because
I, I'd lost everything that I'd 

951
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:06,080
worked for for 35 years. 
Yeah, I could sit and cry or, 

952
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:09,000
you know, I could say, well, 
look, Weebles wobble, but they 

953
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:10,520
don't fall down, right? 
Yeah. 

954
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:13,080
So what we're going to do, what 
we're going to do, how we're 

955
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:16,360
going to get, you know, so we 
put respirators on, we cover 

956
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:19,240
yourself in all this plastic 
sheeted and we all, you know, 

957
00:50:19,240 --> 00:50:23,800
four of us, we'd be like the 
main team number 1/4 of us went 

958
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:25,640
in and dragged all the machines 
out. 

959
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:28,400
Really. 
So you were able to save most of

960
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:30,240
the machines. 
Well, there was pockets. 

961
00:50:30,240 --> 00:50:34,480
There was pockets where the fire
had not killed everything and it

962
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:37,200
would just damage. 
So we dragged all that stuff out

963
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:39,880
and Connor, we ended up kind of 
with one of everything that we 

964
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:41,800
needed. 
We probably, that's wild. 

965
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:45,200
We ended up with one of 
everything and by the bits off 

966
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:47,800
the others we got one working. 
Does that make sense? 

967
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:50,040
The lighting guards wanted you 
to continue. 

968
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:52,440
They wanted us to wanted 
abstract to live on. 

969
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:55,200
What is to live on? 
And it was, yeah, wild. 

970
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:56,760
But that. 
Is awesome. 

971
00:50:56,760 --> 00:51:01,000
And so that my, my, my message 
to anybody, right, that when you

972
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:06,480
hit shit time, right, this is, 
this is the measure of you, this

973
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:09,560
is a true measure of you. 
Because if you, if you're going 

974
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:11,800
to lay down, then you didn't 
want it bad enough to start 

975
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:15,160
with, did you? 
Yeah, just got a, you got a, you

976
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:18,160
just got a headache head, you 
know, hit the problem head on 

977
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:22,280
and get on with it. 
I, I just listened, I just 

978
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:25,360
listened to a podcast. 
The guy's name is Yuri something

979
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:31,000
or other Israeli guy who founded
Waze, you know, the, the traffic

980
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:36,600
app, Waze or the navigation app 
and his, the whole podcast was 

981
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:39,080
pretty much about that. 
He was like, I died so many 

982
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:43,080
times in business. 
And you know, if you don't allow

983
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:45,720
yourself to die, you never 
really die, right? 

984
00:51:45,720 --> 00:51:50,240
Like if you just keep going and 
and you know, I don't know if 

985
00:51:50,240 --> 00:51:53,600
you remember on my weekly Zoom 
calls during COVID, but Mike 

986
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:59,280
Strickland used to constantly 
say, what did he say? 

987
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:05,880
He used to always say you're 
not, you're not dead until you 

988
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:07,880
quit. 
You're you're basically not dead

989
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:09,880
until you quit. 
You're not out of business until

990
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:12,680
you quit. 
And isn't it? 

991
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:15,040
Yeah. 
And so, you know, as long as you

992
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:16,840
never quit. 
And some days are frustrating 

993
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:18,720
for sure, you know, especially 
as we get older. 

994
00:52:18,720 --> 00:52:22,440
Like, I wish I had more easy 
days than difficult days, But 

995
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:26,160
it's just not in my DNA. 
You know, I'm a problem solver. 

996
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:29,360
So, you know, at the end of the 
day, we solve problems. 

997
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:31,880
We fix things. 
Well, that's it, isn't it? 

998
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:34,400
And, and yeah, I think you 
become stronger as a result of 

999
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:36,280
it. 
I mean, it's sometimes you say 

1000
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:37,960
to yourself, but I don't want to
be stronger. 

1001
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:40,440
It does kill me already. 
Will you? 

1002
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:43,080
I don't want to hug in a 
blanket. 

1003
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:45,280
Yeah. 
Yeah, we. 

1004
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:47,160
Weren't built, we weren't built 
that way. 

1005
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:50,320
And the challenges were 
obviously clearly sent to, you 

1006
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:51,880
know, to tries and that's what 
it's about. 

1007
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:55,440
And I think future of abstracts 
is, is, is bright because we 

1008
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:59,720
haven't, you know, we, we, I, I 
always say that abstract's like 

1009
00:52:59,720 --> 00:53:02,600
a, a, a beautiful swan on a calm
lake. 

1010
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:05,720
But when times get rough, she 
turns into a battleship. 

1011
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:09,080
Yeah. 
And that's the reality, you 

1012
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:10,560
know? 
I I was going to say, when you 

1013
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:13,960
said it's like a beautiful swan 
on a calm lake, I was going to 

1014
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:18,400
say run by a donkey. 
That's it. 

1015
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:22,800
That's about it. 
Yeah, I think it's the future of

1016
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:25,720
abstracts. 
I think is, I think, you know, 

1017
00:53:25,720 --> 00:53:29,000
this year it it's all about just
getting ourselves back together 

1018
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:31,720
again and and getting swift at 
manufacturing again after our 

1019
00:53:31,720 --> 00:53:35,080
little turmoil. 
And then next year, I'm looking 

1020
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:37,320
for, you know, serious growth 
again. 

1021
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:41,120
Yeah, yeah. 
And so doesn't it get like, I 

1022
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:44,160
know for me, I'm constantly 
looking for serious growth, but 

1023
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:47,720
some days you wake up and you 
just think, OK, today I'm just 

1024
00:53:47,720 --> 00:53:50,160
going to maintain, you know, I'm
not going to grow today. 

1025
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:53,000
I'm just going to go out there 
and try not to die, you know? 

1026
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:55,680
I think that's an age thing. 
Well. 

1027
00:53:55,680 --> 00:53:58,880
I have a huge amount of energy 
still, but I still get tired 

1028
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:02,840
every once in a while, you know?
But what we have is wisdom, I 

1029
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:05,840
think, and and probably your 
wisdom is probably saying to 

1030
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:11,600
you, don't bother. 
Yeah, some days I wish it did, 

1031
00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:14,760
you know, but I the problem is I
love business. 

1032
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:18,880
Like I just love the game. 
I love the battles, I love the, 

1033
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:24,600
the challenges, the, you know, 
it it really business and 

1034
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:28,680
entrepreneurship is, is 
basically jumping from crisis to

1035
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:30,640
crisis. 
You know, I mean, that's, that's

1036
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:34,000
what it is. 
You're everything's a crisis and

1037
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:35,760
you're just jumping from 1:00 to
the next. 

1038
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:39,160
I think the rhythm, it's like 
the seeing it, it goes problem, 

1039
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:43,040
problem, problem, crisis. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1040
00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:49,760
And you're either just coming 
out of a crisis, in a crisis, or

1041
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:51,800
about to end to one. 
Yeah, right. 

1042
00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:54,800
Yeah. 
It's, it's, it's a crazy world. 

1043
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:56,600
It's, you know, it's like my 
son. 

1044
00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:59,000
Every once in a while, I'll talk
to my son about, you know, 

1045
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:02,040
because he's he's sort of in 
transition right now, somewhere 

1046
00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:05,400
between being a professional 
race car driver and realizing 

1047
00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:07,400
that he probably won't make a 
living doing that. 

1048
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:10,120
And I might want to start 
thinking about a different 

1049
00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:14,080
future. 
And, you know, he's like dad, 

1050
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:17,080
you know, should I be an 
entrepreneur like you? 

1051
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:20,880
And half of me wants to say, 
hell no, go work for some big 

1052
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:25,560
company, give them the problems,
you know, like certainly some 

1053
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:28,040
days I think, God, it would be 
easy to just sit back and 

1054
00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:31,640
collect a paycheck, you know, 
and, and go home at 5:00 and 

1055
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:34,520
have dinner with my family and 
not even think about work till 

1056
00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:36,160
the next day. 
I think if you're an 

1057
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:38,080
entrepreneur, you're an 
entrepreneur and it will come 

1058
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:39,920
out of you. 
And of course, yeah. 

1059
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:41,560
And it didn't. 
It didn't. 

1060
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:44,920
I guess it came out to be at a 
very early age, but I didn't 

1061
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:48,720
know that I was entrepreneurial 
until probably when I started 

1062
00:55:48,720 --> 00:55:50,040
Abstract. 
Yeah. 

1063
00:55:50,240 --> 00:55:53,360
You know, but I've made 
mistakes. 

1064
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:55,600
I've made mistakes. 
I mean, Gordon Addison, right? 

1065
00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:58,160
Gordon Addison, right? 
Had it set up. 

1066
00:55:58,360 --> 00:56:00,440
Yeah, I turned up. 
I was, I was in my Ferrari, 

1067
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:02,320
right? 
This is when abstract was really

1068
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:03,920
kicking right? 
I. 

1069
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:08,000
Was in my Ferrari and and Gordon
Addison says, Steve, I need you 

1070
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:09,840
to come. 
I need you to come up to see me 

1071
00:56:09,840 --> 00:56:11,360
immediately. 
I said all right mate, I'm on my

1072
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:13,200
way up. 
We flew up there, pick Gordon 

1073
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:14,440
up. 
He gets in the Ferrari. 

1074
00:56:14,560 --> 00:56:18,640
We drive off to this, like high,
you know, high skyscraper 

1075
00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:23,680
building, and he says not right.
I've got to tell you, I've sold 

1076
00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:27,040
your business for you. 
I said you are. 

1077
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:28,880
Gordon sold your business for 
you. 

1078
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:31,320
Siri, My property. 
That's hilarious. 

1079
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:33,440
It goes into this office. 
Yeah, seriously. 

1080
00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:35,920
Goes into this office and the 
bloke's there and they're all 

1081
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:41,080
talking around there and they 
offer that proper serious offer,

1082
00:56:42,240 --> 00:56:45,040
you know, noise. 
You'll be like, I'm just in 5%, 

1083
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:47,040
you know? 
Sort of thing, yeah. 

1084
00:56:48,240 --> 00:56:50,880
Don't forget me. 
I was horrified when it when I 

1085
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:55,040
said it's not for sale and the 
money was telephone figures, 

1086
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:57,240
right? 
Yeah, and it and I said it's not

1087
00:56:57,240 --> 00:56:59,080
for sale. 
Yeah, right. 

1088
00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:00,360
And Gordon's not. 
What do you mean it's not 

1089
00:57:01,720 --> 00:57:03,640
everything's was upstate? 
Yeah. 

1090
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:06,880
Snare, it's not for sale. 
Yeah. 

1091
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:08,600
And. 
And to that, and I still think 

1092
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:11,880
to this day, Gordon's probably 
still wonders even to this day, 

1093
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:13,480
why was it? 
For sale. 

1094
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:17,840
Well, I did, I did that one time
Steve and and you know 

1095
00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:24,720
evaluation was given to me for 
the LED company and it was a 

1096
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:30,480
significant number and I 
basically had been led to 

1097
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:33,840
believe by all the geniuses. 
And I won't mention any names, 

1098
00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:37,560
but you know at least one of 
them that the bill business 

1099
00:57:37,560 --> 00:57:41,000
would eventually be worth three 
times that number and it 

1100
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:43,480
probably wouldn't take more than
three or four years to get it 

1101
00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:45,480
there. 
And so I just listened to that 

1102
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:47,120
and I said, no, we don't want 
that. 

1103
00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:51,080
However, you know, we'll take an
investment and we'll sell you 

1104
00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:54,480
10% of the business now and the 
other 90% later. 

1105
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:58,680
And so we did that. 
We got a fairly significant sum 

1106
00:57:58,680 --> 00:58:04,040
of money for the 10% and of 
course my genius team spent it 

1107
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:06,800
all into. 
That's the problem in it. 

1108
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:11,360
All bad things. 
And we ran out of money, and 

1109
00:58:11,360 --> 00:58:13,920
they no longer wanted to buy the
other 90%. 

1110
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:17,320
And now we're stuck with a 
company with huge expenses, a 

1111
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:21,120
big bloated inventory of stuff 
that nobody needs, way too many 

1112
00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:26,080
employees, a huge building. 
And, you know, it was like, now 

1113
00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:29,040
what? 
Yeah, So. 

1114
00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:32,920
But I mean, since that moment, I
decided if the number is big 

1115
00:58:32,920 --> 00:58:36,120
enough to change my life and 
somebody offers it to you in 

1116
00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:39,960
cash today, take it and take the
damn number. 

1117
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:44,360
What are you doing? 
Don't be a hero and take the 

1118
00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:47,520
freaking money, you know? 
But that depends on age and 

1119
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:50,000
where you're at in your in your 
life and your career and stuff 

1120
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:51,440
when you're. 
Building a business. 

1121
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:54,840
When you're building a business 
like we've both done, you are 

1122
00:58:54,840 --> 00:58:57,360
very personally attached to it. 
You know I don't. 

1123
00:58:57,720 --> 00:59:00,680
Think this, this sort of oh, you
know, you can't be attached to 

1124
00:59:00,680 --> 00:59:02,040
business. 
So I don't believe that. 

1125
00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:03,880
I think you're very attached to 
business, right? 

1126
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:07,440
And so you see it is, you see it
like your own kids don't hear in

1127
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:09,600
a funny sort of way, but in a 
financial way, right? 

1128
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:14,080
And you will stick in and dig in
to save that business or do 

1129
00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:15,560
whatever you got to do. 
With it, of course. 

1130
00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:17,120
Yeah, you. 
Know, and that's just of course,

1131
00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:21,080
and I'm sure there are plenty of
people that are in business that

1132
00:59:21,080 --> 00:59:23,840
would watch this podcast, for 
example, they sit there and 

1133
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:27,000
think, you know what, I could 
have been out of this 10 times 

1134
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:28,680
where I'm still in it. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1135
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:30,680
And I think there's a there's 
two things. 

1136
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:31,840
There's the. 
Drawer of. 

1137
00:59:32,080 --> 00:59:35,080
There's a drawer of. 
Becoming more successful than 

1138
00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:38,560
you're on it. 
How there's the fear of not 

1139
00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:40,640
achieving what you set out to 
do. 

1140
00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:43,120
Is it? 
Yeah, there's two things right 

1141
00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:45,320
there because. 
Hell yeah, people don't want to 

1142
00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:46,000
fail. 
Right. 

1143
00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:50,600
Yeah, and but you know, failure 
is sometimes inevitable, right? 

1144
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:53,840
And sometimes fail fast and fail
hard in order to become super 

1145
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:56,640
successful. 
Yeah, I don't know though. 

1146
00:59:56,800 --> 01:00:00,480
You know, as I get older, all 
the other things in life become 

1147
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:02,840
equally if not more important 
than. 

1148
01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:06,280
Building the biggest business in
the world or whatever, like it, 

1149
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:10,440
it gets to a point where you're 
thinking, you know, I'd like to 

1150
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:13,600
do some other things. 
I'd like to maybe do this or do 

1151
01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:16,240
that or do whatever. 
And you know, the problem is I'm

1152
01:00:16,240 --> 01:00:18,400
too stubborn. 
Like I just love my business. 

1153
01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:21,080
I love growing my business. 
I believe in the future of the 

1154
01:00:21,080 --> 01:00:24,680
business and all of that stuff. 
So it keeps me from, you know, 

1155
01:00:24,680 --> 01:00:27,920
making any of those crazy moves.
But you know, I've kind of set a

1156
01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:32,640
timeline now for myself. 
I've said at X period, I'm 

1157
01:00:32,640 --> 01:00:35,040
selling the business for 
whatever it's worth at that 

1158
01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:36,640
time. 
I'll start putting it up for 

1159
01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:40,080
sale a year before that. 
And basically when I get to a 

1160
01:00:40,080 --> 01:00:46,160
number that I think is at least 
X, then I'm selling the business

1161
01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:50,480
and period, that's it. 
So, so at that time, one day 

1162
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:53,920
after that time, I will have 
sold my business and not going 

1163
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:56,040
to tell you when that is because
that way in my own head I can 

1164
01:00:56,040 --> 01:00:57,920
change it and nobody will. 
Know and you can move it right. 

1165
01:00:58,520 --> 01:01:00,720
I can move it around, kick it 
down the road a couple more 

1166
01:01:00,720 --> 01:01:01,760
years. 
I'm just. 

1167
01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:04,160
About there. 
Well, I think, I think, I think 

1168
01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:06,000
you must be very proud of 
yourself and you must 

1169
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:09,920
congratulate yourself for 300 
podcasts. 

1170
01:01:10,240 --> 01:01:11,480
Yeah. 
That one too. 

1171
01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:13,880
Isn't that isn't. 
That it's pretty funny. 

1172
01:01:14,200 --> 01:01:18,840
It is really, I mean you stick 
in and to achieve 300 I think, 

1173
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:21,000
yeah. 
You know what? 

1174
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:24,320
And some days it's not easy, but
but it's always fun. 

1175
01:01:24,320 --> 01:01:26,320
I mean, I love doing it. 
I love doing this. 

1176
01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:29,280
Like I, I was telling, I think I
was telling my girlfriend the 

1177
01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:33,480
other day or someone that if and
when I sell my company, I'm 

1178
01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:36,280
going to keep doing podcasts 
because I just love doing it. 

1179
01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:38,640
I love talking to people. 
I love hearing their stories. 

1180
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:42,600
I love helping people. 
So I'll keep doing it. 

1181
01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:45,480
I think, I think it's incredible
though to, you know, because 

1182
01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:48,520
many people will get to set a 
certain stage, you know, but 

1183
01:01:48,680 --> 01:01:50,200
you've pushed through that 
barrier. 

1184
01:01:51,040 --> 01:01:52,800
Well. 
You've hitting that incredible 

1185
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:55,480
number. 
I mean 3. 100 I actually, I read

1186
01:01:55,480 --> 01:01:59,320
the statistics at the in the 
intro of this podcast, but I'll 

1187
01:01:59,320 --> 01:02:04,080
tell you right now, 90% of 
podcasts stop publishing within 

1188
01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:13,080
how many episodes. 10. 333, 90% 
stop within their first three 

1189
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:18,560
and the 90 and then 90% of the 
remaining 10% quit after 20 

1190
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:24,840
episodes. 
And it says less than 20% of new

1191
01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:29,280
podcast launched in 25 are 
expected to survive into 26, 

1192
01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:36,480
less than 20% and just over 2% 
get to 300 episodes. 

1193
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:39,920
So I'm in the top 2% of all 
podcasters. 

1194
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:41,320
You just hit it. 
You just hit it. 

1195
01:02:41,320 --> 01:02:44,880
Wow, the top 2. 
I'm in the top 2%. 

1196
01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:47,240
How good is that? 
I think that's fantastic, isn't?

1197
01:02:47,320 --> 01:02:49,520
It, well, you know, the, the 
thing was like, I started it 

1198
01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:51,520
before COVID. 
So I didn't start it because I 

1199
01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:53,840
was bored. 
I started it with a purpose and 

1200
01:02:53,840 --> 01:02:56,040
that purpose didn't change when 
I went through COVID. 

1201
01:02:56,040 --> 01:02:59,840
So I know a lot of other people 
who who started podcasts during 

1202
01:02:59,840 --> 01:03:02,120
COVID because they were bored 
and they had some stories to 

1203
01:03:02,120 --> 01:03:04,840
tell and that was great. 
But then they went away as soon 

1204
01:03:04,840 --> 01:03:09,160
as work came back, right? 
Mine, I've always found a way to

1205
01:03:09,160 --> 01:03:11,600
make time and make it work. 
And now I've got this, this 

1206
01:03:11,640 --> 01:03:16,000
lovely lady, Sarah, who's taking
care of most of the stuff that I

1207
01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:20,200
don't have time to do anymore. 
And, and so it works out great. 

1208
01:03:20,240 --> 01:03:21,400
It's fun. 
I love it. 

1209
01:03:21,720 --> 01:03:23,760
Well, well done and 
congratulations on that. 

1210
01:03:23,760 --> 01:03:25,880
Thank you so much. 
And it was funny. 

1211
01:03:26,120 --> 01:03:30,040
You reached out to me, yeah, a 
while back and said I want to be

1212
01:03:30,040 --> 01:03:33,400
the 300th podcast. 
I want to be #300 because I'd 

1213
01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:37,600
push into the same club. 
There you go, you're in the 2% 

1214
01:03:37,600 --> 01:03:39,120
club now. 
There you go. 

1215
01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:42,240
Well, you know what? 
We should do it again at 500. 

1216
01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:44,080
Yeah, 2, right? 
Hit the next. 

1217
01:03:44,080 --> 01:03:46,120
Do it again at 55. 100 is the 
next miles. 

1218
01:03:46,120 --> 01:03:48,840
Stay right. 
I think so, yeah, I think so. 

1219
01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:51,800
Maybe 301 is the next bus, 
Don't, I don't know. 

1220
01:03:52,280 --> 01:03:54,480
Who knows, you know? 
You never know, do you? 

1221
01:03:54,920 --> 01:03:57,880
Yeah. 
But your your business abstract 

1222
01:03:57,880 --> 01:04:01,880
is what, 35 now, right? 
35 years, yeah, that's why. 

1223
01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:06,040
And I don't think there's many, 
many companies that survive 35 

1224
01:04:06,040 --> 01:04:10,000
years, so I feel. 
A tremendous accomplishment. 

1225
01:04:10,840 --> 01:04:14,720
With with still a purpose. 
I think we're, you know, we're 

1226
01:04:14,720 --> 01:04:18,200
doing, we're, we're changing 
lives for, for, you know, 

1227
01:04:18,200 --> 01:04:21,200
various people in various 
industry marketplaces. 

1228
01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:23,640
You know, like I said, we're 
doing it quietly, which is the 

1229
01:04:23,640 --> 01:04:26,440
way I want to be. 
I think abstract lighting will 

1230
01:04:26,440 --> 01:04:30,200
be more noisy when Sam takes the
helm of that. 

1231
01:04:31,040 --> 01:04:34,480
I just want to make sure that, 
you know, he, he has the correct

1232
01:04:34,800 --> 01:04:39,080
mental mindset, you know, before
he sort of goes polling in. 

1233
01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:41,840
Well, I mean, the The thing is, 
you've got a great brand, you've

1234
01:04:41,840 --> 01:04:44,040
got great pedigree, great 
history. 

1235
01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:47,840
One of the things that I admire 
about you and about abstract is 

1236
01:04:47,840 --> 01:04:51,880
you've always been very stubborn
to a point of it will always be 

1237
01:04:51,880 --> 01:04:54,560
made in house, it will always be
made in the UK. 

1238
01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:57,200
That's where it is. 
Like, let's face it, the twister

1239
01:04:57,200 --> 01:05:00,640
could have quite easily been 
made in China, which it was by 

1240
01:05:00,640 --> 01:05:03,880
50 other companies. 
But yeah, I mean, you could have

1241
01:05:03,880 --> 01:05:08,920
probably made it for for 6070% 
less in China in a sense. 

1242
01:05:09,400 --> 01:05:12,160
But you know, you said I'm Auk 
company. 

1243
01:05:12,160 --> 01:05:15,000
It's going to be built in the 
UK, in my factory by my 

1244
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:19,080
standards and you know, you've 
always been very proud of that. 

1245
01:05:19,080 --> 01:05:21,840
You haven't hidden the fact at 
all that it's bait, that it's 

1246
01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:24,120
built in the UK. 
Every, everything and we still, 

1247
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:26,680
you know, still to this day, 
we're still manufacturing away. 

1248
01:05:26,680 --> 01:05:29,400
We've got all of our ace 
machines, our own, you know, 

1249
01:05:29,480 --> 01:05:32,680
everything metal facilities, 
powder go, you know, we've 

1250
01:05:32,680 --> 01:05:35,160
rebuilt all of that over the 
last year and all that all 

1251
01:05:35,160 --> 01:05:40,120
functioning again. 
We're making another big 

1252
01:05:40,120 --> 01:05:44,680
investment this year in a new 
plant that's being installed 

1253
01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:48,080
into Westfield, our original 
manufacturing place. 

1254
01:05:48,280 --> 01:05:50,440
So that's what modernise that 
substantially. 

1255
01:05:50,720 --> 01:05:52,160
When will that building be 
ready? 

1256
01:05:52,720 --> 01:05:57,760
We we hope to have we hope it be
reopening April 25. 

1257
01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:00,920
Oh wow, very soon, couple months
from now. 

1258
01:06:01,160 --> 01:06:03,200
Yeah, that's, yeah, good for 
you. 

1259
01:06:03,200 --> 01:06:05,240
Well, good luck on that. 
You know, then we'll seriously 

1260
01:06:05,240 --> 01:06:08,000
start to start to make a bit of 
noise. 

1261
01:06:08,000 --> 01:06:11,400
Yeah, yeah. 
Abstracts now become ETL listed.

1262
01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:15,880
So beautiful take on the 
American market. 

1263
01:06:16,560 --> 01:06:20,720
Beautiful for for that. 
That's a big step because I know

1264
01:06:20,720 --> 01:06:24,120
we've tried, you know, and, and 
it was always expensive and 

1265
01:06:24,120 --> 01:06:26,120
painful. 
They don't make it easy, which 

1266
01:06:26,120 --> 01:06:29,960
is funny because if it's made in
China it's quite easy to get ETL

1267
01:06:29,960 --> 01:06:32,720
or UL approval on fixtures. 
There's a lot of, you know, I 

1268
01:06:32,720 --> 01:06:35,880
think there's a lot of smoke and
mirrors regarding that, yeah. 

1269
01:06:36,200 --> 01:06:38,760
Yeah, I think they're like. 
The logo on. 

1270
01:06:39,400 --> 01:06:43,680
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's true. 
The criteria to get ETL is 

1271
01:06:43,680 --> 01:06:47,320
quite, it's quite challenging 
and we get, we get inspected 

1272
01:06:47,320 --> 01:06:51,120
every quarter, yeah, you know, 
and they go through every, 

1273
01:06:51,160 --> 01:06:55,320
everything, I mean everything. 
But I don't know how that 

1274
01:06:55,320 --> 01:06:58,520
process works for the larger 
Chinese brands, you know that 

1275
01:06:58,520 --> 01:07:01,920
that are doing it properly like 
the the elations and chauvets 

1276
01:07:01,920 --> 01:07:03,440
and stuff. 
I don't, I don't know. 

1277
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:06,320
I think don't they have to get 
tested even in their US 

1278
01:07:06,440 --> 01:07:08,880
facilities? 
But how you know how, I don't 

1279
01:07:08,880 --> 01:07:11,520
know because all I can tell you 
is that if you want to change, 

1280
01:07:11,520 --> 01:07:15,280
let's say you want to change an 
LED house, right, you've been 

1281
01:07:15,280 --> 01:07:17,440
going to have, you've got to 
change that out. 

1282
01:07:17,440 --> 01:07:19,720
And that goes for a 
certification process. 

1283
01:07:19,720 --> 01:07:24,240
Cost you like £1000 just to 
change one not over if you know.

1284
01:07:24,680 --> 01:07:27,040
Yeah, you know. 
The way that manufacturing is 

1285
01:07:27,040 --> 01:07:29,360
done in the Far East to be 
changing Sofia there and 

1286
01:07:29,360 --> 01:07:31,120
everywhere old imagine. 
Right. 

1287
01:07:32,040 --> 01:07:35,640
So you know, I don't, I don't 
know how to do it, but me 

1288
01:07:35,640 --> 01:07:39,400
neither no is it's very tight, 
but we and we've got our number 

1289
01:07:39,680 --> 01:07:44,080
and we're getting ready to 
manufacture now under the ETL 

1290
01:07:44,080 --> 01:07:45,280
certification. 
Good for you. 

1291
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:47,560
Congrats. 
Yeah, that's a big, that's a big

1292
01:07:47,560 --> 01:07:48,760
change. 
Q. 

1293
01:07:48,760 --> 01:07:51,920
Two, this year we're going to, 
we're going to start our first 

1294
01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:55,280
US manufacturing, which is up to
US manufacturing standards. 

1295
01:07:55,280 --> 01:07:57,800
Yeah, yeah. 
So we are going to. 

1296
01:07:58,000 --> 01:08:00,560
We are. 
We are coming, yeah, but we're 

1297
01:08:00,560 --> 01:08:01,600
coming quietly. 
Good. 

1298
01:08:01,880 --> 01:08:04,040
Yeah, good. 
Coming quietly, Very quietly. 

1299
01:08:04,040 --> 01:08:06,600
Well, if you want to borrow my 
garage to store your inventory 

1300
01:08:06,600 --> 01:08:08,000
or something, just let me know 
you know. 

1301
01:08:08,440 --> 01:08:10,240
Right. 
I think there's something about 

1302
01:08:10,240 --> 01:08:11,520
quiet. 
You know, there's something 

1303
01:08:11,520 --> 01:08:14,800
about it that that just allows 
you to just get on with your 

1304
01:08:14,800 --> 01:08:17,640
business day-to-day without 
being a you know, when you stick

1305
01:08:17,640 --> 01:08:19,800
your head above the parapet, you
know you've got a chance of 

1306
01:08:19,800 --> 01:08:22,520
getting shot at, haven't you? 
Well, the other thing is, 

1307
01:08:22,520 --> 01:08:27,200
instead of saying I need to deal
with all 100,000 customers out 

1308
01:08:27,200 --> 01:08:29,720
there, what you're saying is 
basically no, I just need to 

1309
01:08:29,720 --> 01:08:33,520
deal with the 2000 best ones, 
the ones that are at best fit 

1310
01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:36,000
for me and I'm the best fit for 
them, right? 

1311
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:37,319
And. 
And that's it. 

1312
01:08:37,520 --> 01:08:43,000
That's done here in the in the 
UK and it's, it's, you know, 

1313
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:45,760
it's paid dividends to do that. 
So I want to roll that now out 

1314
01:08:45,760 --> 01:08:50,760
into the US the you know, it's 
it's the right move for us with 

1315
01:08:50,760 --> 01:08:53,600
the Betty got now and with 
certification. 

1316
01:08:53,920 --> 01:08:57,120
You know we we we're coming. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1317
01:08:57,279 --> 01:09:00,200
So and and I'd like. 
Good luck to you, man. 

1318
01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:04,120
I, I, I obviously like you a lot
and I like the brand a lot. 

1319
01:09:04,120 --> 01:09:07,680
And I, I, I always believe 
there's room, You know, it's, 

1320
01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:10,279
it's just like I was talking 
with Gerard, you know, Gerard 

1321
01:09:10,279 --> 01:09:13,840
said he's, he's always talking 
to me about this lighting brand 

1322
01:09:13,840 --> 01:09:18,120
that he's got. 
And, you know, it's always about

1323
01:09:18,120 --> 01:09:21,560
finding the business model that 
makes sense to a group of 

1324
01:09:21,560 --> 01:09:25,399
customers that are big enough to
make you successful given your 

1325
01:09:25,399 --> 01:09:28,439
model, right? 
So not everyone can be a 50 

1326
01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:31,640
million or $100 million company,
but if you're targeting 5 

1327
01:09:31,640 --> 01:09:35,040
million now you've got a lot 
more options open up to you on 

1328
01:09:35,040 --> 01:09:37,600
how you get. 
To those 5 million, if you, if 

1329
01:09:37,600 --> 01:09:41,680
you think we're all our business
model has always been to, to try

1330
01:09:41,680 --> 01:09:45,800
to make 20% net profit. 
Yeah, well, if you, you know, if

1331
01:09:45,800 --> 01:09:49,040
you're turning over 5 million, 
you're making £1,000,000 net 

1332
01:09:49,040 --> 01:09:50,120
profit, right? 
Yeah. 

1333
01:09:50,479 --> 01:09:54,000
And as one individual, why do 
you ever need any more than 

1334
01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:55,680
that? 
It's not. 

1335
01:09:55,680 --> 01:09:58,880
It's not necessary. 
If you have a kid in horses or 

1336
01:09:58,880 --> 01:10:01,080
Motorsports. 
Well, yeah, hoops, right? 

1337
01:10:01,720 --> 01:10:03,600
No, I. 
Then you need more than that. 

1338
01:10:03,600 --> 01:10:07,320
Have one, this is in that. 
But you know, I've slowly got 

1339
01:10:07,320 --> 01:10:10,320
away from that because me too. 
Yeah, me too. 

1340
01:10:10,360 --> 01:10:11,560
Me too. 
Trust me. 

1341
01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:13,960
That's I went through that over 
the past couple of years. 

1342
01:10:13,960 --> 01:10:15,880
I had to. 
I had to say Jeremy. 

1343
01:10:15,880 --> 01:10:19,640
I think, I genuinely think that 
helicopters. 

1344
01:10:19,640 --> 01:10:22,280
Are cheaper. 
It's probably true. 

1345
01:10:22,400 --> 01:10:24,120
Why? 
By the way, you could make money

1346
01:10:24,120 --> 01:10:26,440
with a helicopter. 
You can't make money with a race

1347
01:10:26,560 --> 01:10:30,280
or with a a, you know, show 
jumping horse or a massage horse

1348
01:10:30,280 --> 01:10:32,480
or something. 
I've been flying for what, 25 

1349
01:10:32,480 --> 01:10:35,480
years? 
And in that 25 years, it's 

1350
01:10:35,480 --> 01:10:38,840
probably cost me no more than to
own helicopters and would to own

1351
01:10:38,840 --> 01:10:41,720
a Range Rover. 
In true reality, really, Chin, 

1352
01:10:41,720 --> 01:10:46,720
is the depreciation is no worse 
and the running costs are not 

1353
01:10:46,720 --> 01:10:49,120
really any worse, right? 
Yeah. 

1354
01:10:49,360 --> 01:10:52,520
If there's two of you involved, 
which there always has been when

1355
01:10:52,520 --> 01:10:54,360
I've owned some, always owned it
with somebody else. 

1356
01:10:54,600 --> 01:10:57,120
Yeah. 
If you get an AED, an air 

1357
01:10:57,120 --> 01:11:01,000
weapons directive on a blade or 
something, you know, you share 

1358
01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:04,000
that cost between two of you, 
Yeah, that way that works 

1359
01:11:04,000 --> 01:11:06,400
brilliantly, you know? 
Everything's 50% off. 

1360
01:11:06,480 --> 01:11:09,120
You want to join on your own. 
You got to be a little bit, you 

1361
01:11:09,120 --> 01:11:12,200
know, in the world. 
I remember right after you got 

1362
01:11:12,200 --> 01:11:16,600
your your helicopter license, I 
think you take me up in the 

1363
01:11:16,600 --> 01:11:21,120
helicopter, I'm dumb enough to 
go up with you and you shut off 

1364
01:11:21,120 --> 01:11:25,760
the friggin engine and, and I'm 
like, what the fuck are you 

1365
01:11:25,760 --> 01:11:28,200
doing? 
What's, what are you doing? 

1366
01:11:28,760 --> 01:11:31,240
And the friggin thing's starting
to fall out of the sky and 

1367
01:11:31,240 --> 01:11:33,120
you're telling me, no, I'm doing
this on purpose. 

1368
01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:36,120
And I'm like losing my mind, 
like we're going to die. 

1369
01:11:36,600 --> 01:11:39,480
And then you fire it back up 
again and we land safely and I'm

1370
01:11:39,480 --> 01:11:41,920
like, I will never fly with you 
again. 

1371
01:11:45,080 --> 01:11:48,160
He was always a person likes to 
excitement Mars. 

1372
01:11:48,360 --> 01:11:51,360
I like excitement, I just don't 
like dying in a helicopter. 

1373
01:11:51,360 --> 01:11:54,760
And shutting the motor off in 
mid air is pretty dumb. 

1374
01:11:55,000 --> 01:11:57,760
Like at least an airplane can 
float like this, you know? 

1375
01:11:57,760 --> 01:11:59,840
And land nicely. 
Did we? 

1376
01:11:59,880 --> 01:12:02,920
Helicopter pretty much becomes a
rock when you shut the motor 

1377
01:12:02,960 --> 01:12:03,920
off. 
Did we land? 

1378
01:12:03,920 --> 01:12:04,800
OK? 
We did. 

1379
01:12:04,800 --> 01:12:06,400
Didn't. 
We we did, but I think I might 

1380
01:12:06,400 --> 01:12:10,960
have shot myself. 
I might have had a bit of a 

1381
01:12:10,960 --> 01:12:14,400
problem, Yeah. 
What scared the hell out of me. 

1382
01:12:14,480 --> 01:12:17,680
Yeah, that's the way. 
So what else? 

1383
01:12:18,200 --> 01:12:22,720
What else is what's, what's the 
UK like? 

1384
01:12:23,160 --> 01:12:27,600
Do you struggle because of all 
this Brexit and EU stuff? 

1385
01:12:27,600 --> 01:12:30,520
Like has it made it harder for 
you to do business in Europe? 

1386
01:12:31,080 --> 01:12:34,080
The the problem with the problem
with the UK for for me anyway, 

1387
01:12:34,080 --> 01:12:35,880
yeah, I don't want to talk about
anywhere else in the world 

1388
01:12:35,880 --> 01:12:37,280
because that's, that's not for 
me to do so. 

1389
01:12:37,280 --> 01:12:41,840
But the problem with the UK is 
it it is no longer what it used 

1390
01:12:41,840 --> 01:12:43,960
to be. 
I mean, back in 1990s, it used 

1391
01:12:43,960 --> 01:12:46,040
to be work hard, play hard, 
right? 

1392
01:12:46,160 --> 01:12:47,880
Yeah. 
Went on to a housing estate 

1393
01:12:47,960 --> 01:12:51,080
state and you saw, for example, 
the Range Rover on the drive or 

1394
01:12:51,080 --> 01:12:53,480
you saw a BMW. 
There's a very good chance, not 

1395
01:12:53,480 --> 01:12:56,080
totally, but a very good chance 
that the person that was in that

1396
01:12:56,080 --> 01:12:58,000
was a businessman or woman. 
Right. 

1397
01:12:58,000 --> 01:13:00,320
Yeah, yeah. 
And and it was work hard, play 

1398
01:13:00,320 --> 01:13:04,960
hard that was these days it's 
work hard gets screwed harder. 

1399
01:13:05,440 --> 01:13:07,400
Yeah, work hard so they can play
hard. 

1400
01:13:07,600 --> 01:13:11,040
Yeah, yeah. 
So yeah, you know, and, and I've

1401
01:13:11,040 --> 01:13:14,240
never really been into politics.
It's not who now to see the 

1402
01:13:14,240 --> 01:13:18,320
positive in everything, but I'm 
struggling really badly at the 

1403
01:13:18,320 --> 01:13:20,840
moment to see any positive in 
anything. 

1404
01:13:21,120 --> 01:13:21,800
Right. 
Yeah. 

1405
01:13:22,160 --> 01:13:26,600
And any small to medium sized 
business is seriously being 

1406
01:13:26,600 --> 01:13:29,600
screwed as hard as possible. 
Yeah, that's terrible. 

1407
01:13:29,600 --> 01:13:32,720
And of course, a normal person 
living in in a normal way on 

1408
01:13:32,720 --> 01:13:37,200
normal wages have been sort of, 
you know, that that that income 

1409
01:13:37,200 --> 01:13:40,600
is being. 
Yeah, it's terrible. 

1410
01:13:40,920 --> 01:13:43,080
It's terrible seeing what's 
happening, the same things 

1411
01:13:43,080 --> 01:13:47,680
happening in Canada and you know
where I'm from, as you know, But

1412
01:13:48,120 --> 01:13:51,360
a lot of it is it it again, 
without getting too political, 

1413
01:13:51,360 --> 01:13:54,800
but a lot of it seems to be 
coming down to just a way too 

1414
01:13:54,800 --> 01:13:59,120
liberal policy on immigration. 
You know, you can't, you can't 

1415
01:13:59,120 --> 01:14:03,320
take a country with 25 million 
people and invite 25,000,000 

1416
01:14:03,320 --> 01:14:06,120
more in who? 
Half of those people, by the 

1417
01:14:06,120 --> 01:14:08,560
way, if you've got social 
medicine, which you do in 

1418
01:14:08,560 --> 01:14:11,200
Canada, does. 
They've never been to a doctor 

1419
01:14:11,200 --> 01:14:13,120
in their life. 
And now they come in and it's 

1420
01:14:13,120 --> 01:14:14,840
all free. 
They're like, hell yeah, I'm 

1421
01:14:14,840 --> 01:14:17,320
going to the doctor. 
And now you can't see the Doctor

1422
01:14:17,320 --> 01:14:19,760
anymore. 
I think you know one I think one

1423
01:14:19,760 --> 01:14:22,320
thing some things out with like 
I say, without getting personal 

1424
01:14:22,320 --> 01:14:24,520
political, but. 
Even though we are normal. 

1425
01:14:24,560 --> 01:14:28,480
Parents, normal person, 
unfortunately in the UK, if they

1426
01:14:28,480 --> 01:14:30,880
have to go to a doctor, it's 
pretty difficult to do that at 

1427
01:14:30,880 --> 01:14:34,640
the moment. 
Yeah, pay in and you know, it's 

1428
01:14:34,640 --> 01:14:36,160
just, it's just really quite 
difficult. 

1429
01:14:36,360 --> 01:14:38,760
Yeah. 
For people that are coming in 

1430
01:14:39,160 --> 01:14:44,360
into the country it seems to be 
they get put a bit of a nice 

1431
01:14:44,360 --> 01:14:48,760
hotel and have 24° of heat. 
Wherever they go. 

1432
01:14:48,840 --> 01:14:53,520
And they've got private 
healthcare and that seems to me 

1433
01:14:53,520 --> 01:14:54,440
a little. 
Weird. 

1434
01:14:54,440 --> 01:14:57,920
It seems unfair, doesn't it? 
It just seems again, again it, 

1435
01:14:58,080 --> 01:15:02,280
I, I think this is common in 
politics and in government and 

1436
01:15:02,280 --> 01:15:04,880
stuff. 
So we go too far One Direction 

1437
01:15:04,880 --> 01:15:07,880
where, you know, there's people 
dying in the streets in Africa 

1438
01:15:07,880 --> 01:15:11,080
and different countries and 
stuff, and we turn away and 

1439
01:15:11,080 --> 01:15:12,640
don't look at them and don't 
help them. 

1440
01:15:12,960 --> 01:15:15,920
And then we suddenly hit the 
brakes on that, which is the 

1441
01:15:15,920 --> 01:15:18,920
right thing to do. 
And we say, hey, let's do our 

1442
01:15:18,920 --> 01:15:22,000
part to help them. 
And then we go extreme in the 

1443
01:15:22,000 --> 01:15:24,720
other direction and. 
Be the way. 

1444
01:15:25,480 --> 01:15:28,200
You know, like United States is 
a perfect example too. 

1445
01:15:28,200 --> 01:15:31,960
You know, we, we have almost 40 
trillion in debt, yet people are

1446
01:15:31,960 --> 01:15:34,560
screaming because we're not 
sending more money to Ukraine or

1447
01:15:34,560 --> 01:15:37,800
to other countries, right? 
So how can you like, if my 

1448
01:15:37,800 --> 01:15:41,800
friend comes to me and I'm 40 
trillion in debt and he asks me 

1449
01:15:41,800 --> 01:15:45,280
to borrow $5, I'm going to, I'm 
going to give him one of these 

1450
01:15:45,280 --> 01:15:49,280
because it's how can I lend you 
$5 if I have no money and I'm 

1451
01:15:49,440 --> 01:15:52,600
massively in debt? 
I I'm not in a position to loan 

1452
01:15:52,600 --> 01:15:54,160
you money. 
Very good, very, very good 

1453
01:15:54,160 --> 01:15:58,120
friend Mick Bentola, who's an 
incredibly good friend of mine. 

1454
01:15:58,920 --> 01:16:02,240
He he's a businessman, He's 
Italian, clearly. 

1455
01:16:02,480 --> 01:16:06,640
Yeah, His mum and dad, you know,
they, they came into the country

1456
01:16:06,640 --> 01:16:09,240
and when they came into the 
country they were told when you 

1457
01:16:09,240 --> 01:16:11,960
get here you got to work and you
got to work hard. 

1458
01:16:11,960 --> 01:16:13,600
If you don't work hard, you're 
not standing here. 

1459
01:16:13,880 --> 01:16:16,640
Yeah, it's good. 
I like that. 11 became A1, 

1460
01:16:16,640 --> 01:16:19,480
became I think worked in the 
service industry doing the 

1461
01:16:19,480 --> 01:16:24,080
laundries of hotels and stuff, 
and the other I think became a 

1462
01:16:24,080 --> 01:16:25,680
Baker or something like that, 
right. 

1463
01:16:26,160 --> 01:16:30,720
And they worked. 
And Mick, they stored into him 

1464
01:16:30,760 --> 01:16:33,360
that he had to be a super 
grafter. 

1465
01:16:33,800 --> 01:16:36,320
And I would say Mick works 
harder probably than I do. 

1466
01:16:36,560 --> 01:16:39,640
Yeah, that's, that's the culture
that you want, isn't it? 

1467
01:16:39,880 --> 01:16:43,480
Yeah, yeah. 
He's paying his taxes and paying

1468
01:16:43,480 --> 01:16:46,200
them well, his mum and dad have 
paid the taxes for their lives 

1469
01:16:46,200 --> 01:16:49,200
and they've been an asset on 
every lap, right. 

1470
01:16:49,760 --> 01:16:52,600
And, and, and I think that's 
where it should be in life, 

1471
01:16:52,600 --> 01:16:53,200
isn't it? 
But. 

1472
01:16:53,200 --> 01:16:57,560
I hate to be negative. 
That's so rare right now. 

1473
01:16:57,560 --> 01:16:59,920
Like it is just so rare right 
now. 

1474
01:17:00,280 --> 01:17:02,960
And, and I'm not, I'm not saying
it's all young people. 

1475
01:17:02,960 --> 01:17:04,560
I'm not saying it's all foreign 
people. 

1476
01:17:04,560 --> 01:17:05,880
I'm not saying it's all 
anything. 

1477
01:17:06,120 --> 01:17:10,760
I'm just saying as far as a 
general cultural thing, it's 

1478
01:17:10,800 --> 01:17:15,200
it's rarer to have that type of 
what can I do for you, what can 

1479
01:17:15,200 --> 01:17:17,560
I do for you versus what can you
do for me? 

1480
01:17:17,600 --> 01:17:20,360
When I first started abstract, 
right, this was the reality of 

1481
01:17:20,360 --> 01:17:23,880
it. 
We had 778 employees at one 

1482
01:17:23,880 --> 01:17:25,480
point, which was a good number 
of people. 

1483
01:17:25,480 --> 01:17:26,240
Seven days. 
Yeah. 

1484
01:17:27,360 --> 01:17:30,400
And but I used to be able to, if
somebody annoyed me, I used to 

1485
01:17:30,400 --> 01:17:32,560
be able to go and grab them by 
the ear, pull them into me 

1486
01:17:32,560 --> 01:17:36,520
office and give them a right, 
you know, tell them right and 

1487
01:17:36,520 --> 01:17:38,800
they'd accept system. 
They go out and they go back to 

1488
01:17:38,800 --> 01:17:42,280
work. 
Where in today's you know you 

1489
01:17:42,280 --> 01:17:47,040
can't do that and just doesn't, 
it doesn't seem, and you might 

1490
01:17:47,040 --> 01:17:50,160
think, well, that seems a bit 
unreasonable, but when people 

1491
01:17:50,160 --> 01:17:53,480
work for you, you're paying them
money for a service, aren't you?

1492
01:17:53,480 --> 01:17:55,400
Right. 
Let's say you pay. $20.00 an 

1493
01:17:55,400 --> 01:17:58,040
hour, right? 
You want one hour's work for 

1494
01:17:58,040 --> 01:18:01,880
your $20, don't you? 
Yeah, well, most people work 

1495
01:18:01,880 --> 01:18:03,680
half of that. 
Yeah. 

1496
01:18:03,920 --> 01:18:06,160
Really. 
Now you're paying them £40 or 

1497
01:18:06,200 --> 01:18:08,840
$40.00 an hour, aren't you? 
Just say where I'm coming from. 

1498
01:18:08,840 --> 01:18:10,560
So. 
No, I, I know exactly where 

1499
01:18:10,560 --> 01:18:12,680
you're coming from and it's, 
it's a sad state. 

1500
01:18:13,000 --> 01:18:17,200
Like the good news is though, 
that that mentality creates a 

1501
01:18:17,200 --> 01:18:20,960
lot of opportunity for kids like
yours and mine who work their 

1502
01:18:20,960 --> 01:18:23,440
ass off for that $20. 
You know they will. 

1503
01:18:23,720 --> 01:18:25,880
What they'll do is they'll say 
I'm going to give you an hour 

1504
01:18:25,880 --> 01:18:29,520
and a half for for $20. 
You want because that's what's 

1505
01:18:29,520 --> 01:18:33,240
going to, of course. 
Yeah, you're is. 

1506
01:18:33,240 --> 01:18:35,240
That's what that's what will 
make you the one person 

1507
01:18:35,240 --> 01:18:37,000
underneath the managing 
director. 

1508
01:18:37,000 --> 01:18:39,080
And if not, the managing 
director, of course. 

1509
01:18:39,120 --> 01:18:42,440
No, and it's just going to make 
you a winner in life, you know, 

1510
01:18:42,440 --> 01:18:46,360
as opposed to the opposite. 
So yeah, I mean, again, I think 

1511
01:18:46,360 --> 01:18:48,240
we went too far off into the 
politics. 

1512
01:18:48,240 --> 01:18:51,920
But the it's frustrating because
especially, you know, you know, 

1513
01:18:51,920 --> 01:18:55,720
I live with a British woman and,
and she's sick to her stomach 

1514
01:18:55,720 --> 01:19:00,000
because she's our generation, 
she's our age and she, she 

1515
01:19:00,520 --> 01:19:03,120
misses the England that she grew
up in. 

1516
01:19:03,280 --> 01:19:06,440
You know, she grew up in London 
and it's not the same place that

1517
01:19:06,440 --> 01:19:09,440
it was when she grew up. 
And of course people say, well, 

1518
01:19:09,440 --> 01:19:11,880
that's progress. 
You know, things move forward. 

1519
01:19:11,880 --> 01:19:13,280
You don't want anything to sit 
still. 

1520
01:19:13,280 --> 01:19:17,000
But it's not moving forward. 
You know, it's, it's moving a 

1521
01:19:17,000 --> 01:19:19,800
different direction. 
And and so maybe it's moving 

1522
01:19:19,800 --> 01:19:22,640
forward for some people, but I 
don't think it's moving forward 

1523
01:19:22,640 --> 01:19:24,960
for all people. 
And so. 

1524
01:19:25,280 --> 01:19:27,600
We can. 
I don't think we can change any 

1525
01:19:27,600 --> 01:19:28,920
of this. 
I mean that that's the true. 

1526
01:19:29,800 --> 01:19:31,800
You know, I was listening to a 
Pierce Morgan. 

1527
01:19:33,040 --> 01:19:35,280
Was it Pierce Morgan? 
No, it wasn't. 

1528
01:19:35,520 --> 01:19:38,000
No, it was Jordan Peterson, 
Canadian. 

1529
01:19:38,360 --> 01:19:41,000
I don't know if you know who he 
is, but he does a podcast and 

1530
01:19:41,000 --> 01:19:43,520
writes books and stuff. 
But he interviewed and I don't 

1531
01:19:43,520 --> 01:19:46,480
know who this woman is, but 
she's she's a black lady, I 

1532
01:19:46,480 --> 01:19:49,880
think maybe from Nigeria. 
Who is? 

1533
01:19:49,880 --> 01:19:52,480
I believe she's the head of the 
Conservative Party in the UK 

1534
01:19:52,480 --> 01:19:53,600
right now. 
OK. 

1535
01:19:53,640 --> 01:19:56,560
Yeah, I can't remember her name,
but I listened to about half the

1536
01:19:56,560 --> 01:20:00,120
podcast. 
Very sensible young lady and you

1537
01:20:00,120 --> 01:20:02,120
know she. 
I didn't really get in. 

1538
01:20:02,360 --> 01:20:05,200
I don't really get into politics
too much because. 

1539
01:20:05,320 --> 01:20:08,120
Oh, you don't. 
I'm not really that, you know. 

1540
01:20:08,160 --> 01:20:10,960
I never was either until it 
really started costing me. 

1541
01:20:11,760 --> 01:20:14,520
You. 
Know when I when I when I 

1542
01:20:14,520 --> 01:20:17,960
couldn't afford the my employees
health insurance anymore, I 

1543
01:20:17,960 --> 01:20:19,960
went, wait a second, what's 
going on here? 

1544
01:20:20,240 --> 01:20:23,160
There's something going on and I
need to pay attention. 

1545
01:20:23,400 --> 01:20:26,960
But I mean, what I'm saying is I
do think there's hope coming up 

1546
01:20:26,960 --> 01:20:29,920
in the young people. 
I think, I think there's some 

1547
01:20:29,920 --> 01:20:32,600
new generation stuff coming up 
where they're coming up with the

1548
01:20:32,600 --> 01:20:38,160
same work ethic that we had. 
Very smart, want to do better, 

1549
01:20:38,160 --> 01:20:40,120
want to change things for the 
better. 

1550
01:20:40,520 --> 01:20:43,400
And, you know, like I heard her 
on this podcast and she was 

1551
01:20:43,400 --> 01:20:48,280
saying, when I came to the UK in
1996, it's not like that 

1552
01:20:48,280 --> 01:20:50,480
anymore. 
We'll try thinking back to the 

1553
01:20:50,480 --> 01:20:54,080
1976, you know, it was way 
different back then. 

1554
01:20:54,560 --> 01:20:59,840
And so I, I, you know, again, 
I'm, I think I'm an optimist. 

1555
01:21:00,560 --> 01:21:03,240
I know I'm an optimist. 
So I always think that it's 

1556
01:21:03,240 --> 01:21:05,840
going to improve. 
And I think, you know, some of 

1557
01:21:05,840 --> 01:21:08,680
the young people coming up right
now and, and you know, there's a

1558
01:21:08,680 --> 01:21:12,040
lot of young people coming up in
the US political system as well,

1559
01:21:12,040 --> 01:21:15,680
who I think are going to be very
strong in the future and they're

1560
01:21:15,680 --> 01:21:19,200
going to help bring things back 
to some level of normalcy. 

1561
01:21:19,600 --> 01:21:23,440
And, and so I think the same in 
the UK, hopefully in Canada, I 

1562
01:21:23,440 --> 01:21:25,960
don't know, but yeah, it's 
interesting. 

1563
01:21:25,960 --> 01:21:28,160
But there's this thing going on,
I don't know if you've seen it, 

1564
01:21:28,160 --> 01:21:30,240
between Canada and the US right 
now, where it's. 

1565
01:21:30,240 --> 01:21:34,840
Becoming a little bit a little 
bit whole because to me in 

1566
01:21:34,840 --> 01:21:37,320
America they are they always 
won. 

1567
01:21:37,320 --> 01:21:38,160
Really. 
It might of. 

1568
01:21:38,160 --> 01:21:41,160
Course, yeah, Well, but but 
legally they're not. 

1569
01:21:41,160 --> 01:21:45,640
And so so the current president 
obviously is is just basically 

1570
01:21:45,640 --> 01:21:48,280
saying, hey, you know, we've 
given you a lot of free stuff 

1571
01:21:48,280 --> 01:21:53,120
and we want payback on that now.
And that has become very, very 

1572
01:21:53,120 --> 01:21:56,200
political because he's, you 
know, he doesn't say things in 

1573
01:21:56,200 --> 01:21:59,760
pleasant ways. 
You know, he, he like, if, if 

1574
01:22:00,320 --> 01:22:04,000
you know, he'll just say it how 
he feels and how, how it is or 

1575
01:22:04,000 --> 01:22:06,960
whatever, right. 
And but it's created this grift 

1576
01:22:06,960 --> 01:22:10,120
between Canada and the US and, 
and Canadians are just basically

1577
01:22:10,120 --> 01:22:12,600
like Americans are mean and, and
nasty. 

1578
01:22:13,120 --> 01:22:16,080
And I'm Canadian and American, 
right? 

1579
01:22:16,080 --> 01:22:19,680
I I have both passports. 
From both both sides. 

1580
01:22:19,720 --> 01:22:22,640
But I also, I'm taking it from 
both sides, you know, because 

1581
01:22:22,640 --> 01:22:27,000
my, my family and friends know 
who I voted for and, and you 

1582
01:22:27,000 --> 01:22:30,320
know, so sometimes I don't know,
it just doesn't feel good. 

1583
01:22:30,320 --> 01:22:33,200
Like, I wish we could get past 
this part right now because it 

1584
01:22:33,200 --> 01:22:35,680
feels really. 
I, I I totally agree with that. 

1585
01:22:35,920 --> 01:22:39,840
They just kept me charges 
plugged in because it's it's so.

1586
01:22:40,040 --> 01:22:43,880
Is your computer blinking? 
Yeah. 

1587
01:22:44,360 --> 01:22:46,080
We don't want that to happen, no
way, because that we. 

1588
01:22:46,080 --> 01:22:47,680
Don't you? 
Wouldn't be the first one 

1589
01:22:47,680 --> 01:22:51,320
though, remarkably. 
I'd say that well, ah, there we 

1590
01:22:51,320 --> 01:22:53,800
go. 
My podcast is my podcast is 

1591
01:22:53,800 --> 01:22:57,400
called Geezers of Gear, Steve. 
So we do get some older folks on

1592
01:22:57,400 --> 01:23:00,600
here who don't really know how 
to work their computer very 

1593
01:23:00,600 --> 01:23:01,880
well. 
And so sometimes it's. 

1594
01:23:02,800 --> 01:23:04,480
But it's on the hell. 
It's charged you beautifully. 

1595
01:23:04,480 --> 01:23:07,320
So real good. 
Yeah, it gets a bit sketchy at 

1596
01:23:07,320 --> 01:23:11,800
times, so. 
If that's because it, because 

1597
01:23:11,800 --> 01:23:16,000
you see, like if, if my son was 
doing this computer stuff, it'd 

1598
01:23:16,000 --> 01:23:18,040
be all sorted and organised, 
right? 

1599
01:23:18,040 --> 01:23:20,480
Yeah, yeah. 
What's this button do? 

1600
01:23:20,480 --> 01:23:22,840
What's that one do? 
I'm pretty good at it. 

1601
01:23:23,040 --> 01:23:25,160
I'm pretty good at. 
It you've had a very good with 

1602
01:23:25,160 --> 01:23:27,720
my. 
Yeah, and I don't, you know, 

1603
01:23:27,720 --> 01:23:30,680
like you've always had employees
so you could call somebody in to

1604
01:23:30,680 --> 01:23:34,840
fix your stuff, right? 
I can't, you know, I'm, I have 

1605
01:23:34,840 --> 01:23:36,920
no employees here. 
They're my employees are 

1606
01:23:36,920 --> 01:23:40,120
scattered around the world. 
If if I was just challenged you 

1607
01:23:40,120 --> 01:23:43,880
right and and say how you see 
the entertainment industry 

1608
01:23:43,880 --> 01:23:47,040
moving forward, you know, with 
AI and all of these things 

1609
01:23:47,040 --> 01:23:50,560
that's happening, how do you see
the future? 

1610
01:23:50,760 --> 01:23:55,720
As as well, you know, industry, 
it's a great question because 

1611
01:23:56,160 --> 01:24:00,880
I'm constantly talking about 
that kind of stuff and I see it 

1612
01:24:00,880 --> 01:24:03,480
very different. 
You know, I see, I think we're 

1613
01:24:03,480 --> 01:24:05,880
going to have AI and enabled 
light fixtures. 

1614
01:24:05,880 --> 01:24:09,080
I think we're going to have AI 
enabled all kinds of things. 

1615
01:24:09,080 --> 01:24:11,960
So you're going to have less 
brains in the control system, 

1616
01:24:11,960 --> 01:24:13,720
probably more brains in the 
light. 

1617
01:24:14,040 --> 01:24:16,640
So if you think back to the 
twister with the really smart 

1618
01:24:16,640 --> 01:24:19,600
sound to light chip in it, 
you're going to have twisters 

1619
01:24:19,600 --> 01:24:22,080
that are able to look out at the
dance floor, figure out the 

1620
01:24:22,080 --> 01:24:26,920
dimensions of the dance floor 
and adjust their movement based 

1621
01:24:26,920 --> 01:24:28,760
on the dimensions of the dance 
floor. 

1622
01:24:28,760 --> 01:24:33,480
And they'll be able to not only 
pick up the beat of the music, 

1623
01:24:33,720 --> 01:24:37,200
but the genre of the music. 
Oh, this is reggae. 

1624
01:24:37,200 --> 01:24:41,520
So I should probably, you know, 
do this type of movement or not 

1625
01:24:41,520 --> 01:24:43,720
move at all and just change 
colour or whatever. 

1626
01:24:44,240 --> 01:24:48,160
And so you're going to have AI 
enabled products across the 

1627
01:24:48,160 --> 01:24:51,840
board, whether it's speakers or 
sound or lighting or control 

1628
01:24:51,840 --> 01:24:54,880
systems or whatever. 
I think we're going to keep 

1629
01:24:54,880 --> 01:24:56,840
seeing smarter and smarter 
controls. 

1630
01:24:56,840 --> 01:24:59,680
An I think the people running 
those controls are probably 

1631
01:24:59,680 --> 01:25:02,520
going to have to do less tedious
work. 

1632
01:25:03,080 --> 01:25:06,600
And so right now it all sounds 
very threatening to people. 

1633
01:25:06,600 --> 01:25:09,600
I think they're thinking, you 
know, programmers are not going 

1634
01:25:09,600 --> 01:25:12,880
to be necessary anymore because,
you know, AI is going to do all 

1635
01:25:12,880 --> 01:25:14,880
the. 
Programmes so it feels it could 

1636
01:25:14,880 --> 01:25:16,960
feel very threatening to. 
It does. 

1637
01:25:16,960 --> 01:25:20,000
Yeah, it does to a lot. 
Of people all these are in 

1638
01:25:20,000 --> 01:25:23,440
reality kind of very powerful 
commodity within the 

1639
01:25:23,440 --> 01:25:27,120
entertainment industry because 
they will decide what fixtures 

1640
01:25:27,120 --> 01:25:30,240
they're going to use which then 
generates that hire companies 

1641
01:25:30,240 --> 01:25:34,040
have got to have the stock of 
those type of fixtures yeah you 

1642
01:25:34,040 --> 01:25:36,800
know that and and I. 
Don't know that that's going to 

1643
01:25:36,800 --> 01:25:40,840
change anytime soon because I 
think someone's always going to 

1644
01:25:40,840 --> 01:25:44,840
have to sort of read the room, 
speak with the artist, speak 

1645
01:25:44,840 --> 01:25:47,400
with the production manager, 
figure out what the budget is 

1646
01:25:47,640 --> 01:25:50,160
like. 
Yes, could you have an AILD? 

1647
01:25:50,640 --> 01:25:54,840
Probably, but it, it just, I 
think that that's a relationship

1648
01:25:54,840 --> 01:25:57,800
that's going to stay in the loop
when you, when you talk about 

1649
01:25:57,800 --> 01:26:01,840
the operator though, and the 
programmer, like I, I don't 

1650
01:26:01,840 --> 01:26:04,240
think it's, it's much different 
than anything else. 

1651
01:26:04,240 --> 01:26:08,640
Like I, I just think that we're 
going to be advancing to a point

1652
01:26:08,640 --> 01:26:12,080
where we don't have to be the 
guy working the shovel anymore 

1653
01:26:12,080 --> 01:26:16,200
because now you have, you know, 
front end things with the scoop 

1654
01:26:16,200 --> 01:26:18,320
on the front of it, those 
tractor things, whatever they're

1655
01:26:18,320 --> 01:26:21,600
called caterpillars. 
And so we don't have to dig 

1656
01:26:21,600 --> 01:26:25,320
holes as much as we used to, or.
We don't have to assist the 

1657
01:26:25,360 --> 01:26:28,640
oldies and the programmers and 
all the rest of it to make it's 

1658
01:26:28,640 --> 01:26:31,880
quicker and probably become 
more, more if it, you know, more

1659
01:26:31,880 --> 01:26:33,720
efficient. 
Do you use AI at all yet? 

1660
01:26:36,680 --> 01:26:39,000
No. 
New stuff that's coming, 

1661
01:26:39,200 --> 01:26:40,800
clearly. 
That's why I asked. 

1662
01:26:40,800 --> 01:26:43,360
No, I mean yourself, just for 
your day-to-day work. 

1663
01:26:43,680 --> 01:26:47,440
We, we started to, we started to
experience and, and and work 

1664
01:26:47,840 --> 01:26:52,280
with AI, but I'm not using it 
in, in any accounting or 

1665
01:26:52,280 --> 01:26:53,240
anything like that. 
I'm not doing. 

1666
01:26:53,240 --> 01:26:54,800
Yeah. 
I mean, you and I should have an

1667
01:26:54,800 --> 01:26:59,560
offline conversation someday 
because like for example, you 

1668
01:26:59,560 --> 01:27:06,040
know, I will, I will like we do 
because my staff are all 

1669
01:27:06,040 --> 01:27:07,720
completely remote all over the 
world. 

1670
01:27:07,720 --> 01:27:10,920
I don't have any staff in the 
same room as me at any time. 

1671
01:27:11,400 --> 01:27:16,280
And so all of our business 
operates around a platform 

1672
01:27:16,280 --> 01:27:18,440
called Rome, which is a virtual 
platform. 

1673
01:27:18,920 --> 01:27:23,800
And so I can look and see who's 
in their offices, in my office 

1674
01:27:23,800 --> 01:27:27,920
building on my screen, and I can
go knock on somebody's door and 

1675
01:27:27,920 --> 01:27:30,760
say, hey, how are you? 
You know, so, and we'll talk, 

1676
01:27:30,760 --> 01:27:33,480
we'll have a conversation just 
like I'm in his office, right? 

1677
01:27:33,760 --> 01:27:37,960
Well, the system takes notes on 
every one of those calls. 

1678
01:27:38,720 --> 01:27:43,560
And so after the call, the next 
day, a month from now, I can go 

1679
01:27:43,560 --> 01:27:45,760
back to those meeting notes 
because I don't have to write 

1680
01:27:45,760 --> 01:27:48,480
any notes anymore. 
I can go back to those notes and

1681
01:27:48,480 --> 01:27:51,720
I can say what was Steve saying 
about the twister? 

1682
01:27:52,000 --> 01:27:54,680
You know, why was the sound to 
light better in that twister? 

1683
01:27:54,680 --> 01:27:58,760
I can just ask it a question and
it'll say great, great question.

1684
01:27:58,840 --> 01:28:02,920
You know, he looked at this 
little moving flower thing and 

1685
01:28:02,920 --> 01:28:05,600
he took the chip out of it and 
it had this incredible chip in 

1686
01:28:05,600 --> 01:28:08,760
it that did things like this and
this and this and that's why it 

1687
01:28:08,760 --> 01:28:11,200
was better. 
So you can just ask questions of

1688
01:28:11,200 --> 01:28:13,880
it. 
And so that is something I use 

1689
01:28:13,880 --> 01:28:18,800
that all day everyday just to. 
And so another thing it could do

1690
01:28:18,800 --> 01:28:22,560
is let's say you have a meeting 
with one of your engineers, for 

1691
01:28:22,560 --> 01:28:25,680
example, and they're not doing a
very good job and there's a lot 

1692
01:28:25,680 --> 01:28:29,480
of problems with the fixtures. 
And you could have a meeting 

1693
01:28:29,480 --> 01:28:31,840
with that person and it takes 
notes. 

1694
01:28:32,200 --> 01:28:35,840
And after that meeting, you 
could simply say, should I fire 

1695
01:28:35,840 --> 01:28:40,120
him or not? 
And they tell you, you know, 

1696
01:28:41,040 --> 01:28:44,200
he's got really good ideas when 
it comes to this, this and this 

1697
01:28:44,200 --> 01:28:47,080
and and he made a mistake over 
here and here, but I think he 

1698
01:28:47,080 --> 01:28:49,120
covered it up with some really 
good information. 

1699
01:28:49,120 --> 01:28:51,640
And based on the history, you 
say that he's been with the 

1700
01:28:51,640 --> 01:28:54,120
company for 17 years and blah, 
blah, blah. 

1701
01:28:54,480 --> 01:28:57,160
I would give him another chance.
But here's one. 

1702
01:28:57,160 --> 01:28:59,880
Here's a a step by step plan you
should put in place. 

1703
01:28:59,880 --> 01:29:02,560
One, make sure he shows up for 
work on time 2. 

1704
01:29:02,560 --> 01:29:06,760
Make him read this book. 
Oh my God, it's unbelievable. 

1705
01:29:06,760 --> 01:29:10,480
Like so it's it's my best 
employee now don't tell my staff

1706
01:29:10,480 --> 01:29:12,120
that, but it is my best 
employee. 

1707
01:29:12,160 --> 01:29:15,960
I use it all day every day for 
so many different things. 

1708
01:29:16,000 --> 01:29:18,800
You know, I don't know, you 
probably haven't seen it and 

1709
01:29:18,800 --> 01:29:21,800
I'll I'll I'll tell you what 
I'll do one for you. 

1710
01:29:21,800 --> 01:29:26,680
I can so I do an AI podcast now,
not me podcasting about AIA 

1711
01:29:26,840 --> 01:29:31,640
podcast completely done by AI. 
So the the logo is AI, the intro

1712
01:29:31,640 --> 01:29:37,240
music is AI and the podcasters, 
the it's a man and a woman and 

1713
01:29:37,240 --> 01:29:41,440
it's 100% AI. 
And so you could send me a press

1714
01:29:41,440 --> 01:29:46,040
release or some documents about 
a new product or something and 

1715
01:29:46,680 --> 01:29:49,960
these people will put together 
like a 15 or 20 minute podcast 

1716
01:29:49,960 --> 01:29:53,400
to talk about those products. 
They'll be like, Oh my God, have

1717
01:29:53,400 --> 01:29:57,280
you seen this new abstract 
Twister 97.5? 

1718
01:29:57,640 --> 01:30:00,800
It is unbelievable. 
Oh yeah, it's just like the old 

1719
01:30:00,800 --> 01:30:04,520
Twisters, but it's LED. 
Yeah, I mean, it's incredible. 

1720
01:30:04,520 --> 01:30:07,480
And. 
It goes, this flower, it's. 

1721
01:30:07,680 --> 01:30:13,920
Not the dancing bloody flower, 
but it's it's so damn cool and. 

1722
01:30:14,240 --> 01:30:16,680
On the next light, yeah, it's 
going to stay on the back, 

1723
01:30:16,680 --> 01:30:20,000
powered by the dancing flower. 
Perfect. 

1724
01:30:20,120 --> 01:30:22,840
Why don't you just do a light 
called the dancing flower? 

1725
01:30:23,040 --> 01:30:25,400
That's. 
British yeah, you know, that 

1726
01:30:25,400 --> 01:30:29,800
could be that's that's the 
perfect 35th celebration light 

1727
01:30:29,800 --> 01:30:32,240
in it, the dancing. 
Yeah, the dancing flower. 

1728
01:30:32,520 --> 01:30:34,240
Yeah. 
It's got a ring to, isn't it? 

1729
01:30:34,600 --> 01:30:36,360
Yeah. 
Dancing flower? 

1730
01:30:36,720 --> 01:30:39,280
Yeah. 
You just got to figure out what 

1731
01:30:39,280 --> 01:30:42,720
is a dancing flower. 100 dancing
flowers on the tour. 

1732
01:30:43,080 --> 01:30:47,200
Yeah, that's hilarious. 
But yeah, so I, I mean, I use it

1733
01:30:47,200 --> 01:30:51,000
constantly for all kinds. 
You know, I, I had AI had a 

1734
01:30:51,000 --> 01:30:57,000
slight medical problem this week
and I had to go to, I did some 

1735
01:30:57,000 --> 01:31:02,040
testing and I think basically 
because I'm pretty healthy, 

1736
01:31:02,040 --> 01:31:05,440
believe it or not, I'm probably 
35 lbs lighter than I was last 

1737
01:31:05,440 --> 01:31:08,680
time you saw me. 
And I exercise every day. 

1738
01:31:08,680 --> 01:31:11,080
I eat right. 
I, I live pretty well now. 

1739
01:31:11,600 --> 01:31:15,120
And, but I take a bunch of 
supplements and I think what I 

1740
01:31:15,120 --> 01:31:18,080
did is I've added a couple 
supplements and I think there's 

1741
01:31:18,080 --> 01:31:21,960
a, there's a conflict in there 
somewhere and it's caused my 

1742
01:31:21,960 --> 01:31:26,120
blood pressure to start spiking.
And just right after I'll drink 

1743
01:31:26,120 --> 01:31:28,600
a smoothie and I'll take my 
supplements and boom, my blood 

1744
01:31:28,600 --> 01:31:32,200
pressure jumps up. 
So, so, so yeah, what I've done 

1745
01:31:32,200 --> 01:31:36,240
is I've loaded in these like 12 
supplements that I take each way

1746
01:31:36,640 --> 01:31:40,240
into AI and I've said I'm having
a problem with blood, blood 

1747
01:31:40,240 --> 01:31:41,680
pressure. 
Can you tell me what might be 

1748
01:31:41,680 --> 01:31:44,000
happening? 
I mean, it gave me like, I'll, 

1749
01:31:44,160 --> 01:31:46,360
I'll tell you what, I'll text, 
I'll send you the link. 

1750
01:31:46,400 --> 01:31:51,520
You can see what it says and 
you'll be like, holy shit, it's 

1751
01:31:51,520 --> 01:31:53,320
wild. 
It is wild. 

1752
01:31:53,440 --> 01:31:56,360
And he's told me how to fix it. 
Told me how to fix it. 

1753
01:31:56,360 --> 01:31:59,200
It gave me a point by point plan
on what to try. 

1754
01:31:59,520 --> 01:32:03,120
Here's the probable culprits. 
So try eliminating this one 

1755
01:32:03,120 --> 01:32:05,640
first and then this one. 
And yeah, I mean, it's 

1756
01:32:05,640 --> 01:32:07,520
unbelievable. 
It's, it's so good. 

1757
01:32:08,000 --> 01:32:10,600
One of the challenges, it lies 
to you occasionally. 

1758
01:32:10,760 --> 01:32:14,640
So if it doesn't know an answer,
it won't say I don't know it'll 

1759
01:32:14,640 --> 01:32:16,640
make one up. 
Oh my God. 

1760
01:32:16,800 --> 01:32:19,600
Yeah, yeah. 
Sort of like a guy you and I 

1761
01:32:19,600 --> 01:32:21,400
know he he would do the same 
thing. 

1762
01:32:22,440 --> 01:32:23,880
He would always do the same 
thing. 

1763
01:32:23,880 --> 01:32:27,000
He would just make up a bullshit
answer and you'd be like, well, 

1764
01:32:27,000 --> 01:32:29,320
it sounds smart. 
I guess he's telling the truth. 

1765
01:32:29,800 --> 01:32:31,240
Must be right. 
Yeah. 

1766
01:32:31,360 --> 01:32:35,720
But yeah, So, you know, I, I 
like if you ever want to really 

1767
01:32:35,720 --> 01:32:39,000
jump in and start using some AI 
stuff on your day-to-day, just 

1768
01:32:39,000 --> 01:32:43,560
let's jump on a different call 
and I'll go through four or five

1769
01:32:43,560 --> 01:32:46,560
things that you could start 
using that'll change your life. 

1770
01:32:46,560 --> 01:32:48,200
I promise. 
We're going to Yes, it was. 

1771
01:32:48,200 --> 01:32:49,640
Brilliant. 
Like even you know what you 

1772
01:32:49,640 --> 01:32:52,120
could do? 
You could go to your fridge and 

1773
01:32:52,120 --> 01:32:54,840
you could take a picture of the 
inside of your fridge and say 

1774
01:32:54,840 --> 01:32:58,520
here's all the food I've got. 
Tell me some things that I could

1775
01:32:58,520 --> 01:32:59,960
make. 
What? 

1776
01:33:00,560 --> 01:33:05,600
And it will swear to God. 
Or you could take a picture of 

1777
01:33:05,600 --> 01:33:08,240
your spice rack and say, these 
are the spices I have. 

1778
01:33:08,680 --> 01:33:10,080
What? 
What could I put together with 

1779
01:33:10,080 --> 01:33:12,640
these spices and a couple 
steaks, you know? 

1780
01:33:12,800 --> 01:33:16,800
I never do it for you. 
Oh my God, that's that's just. 

1781
01:33:17,080 --> 01:33:18,560
It's insane. 
It's insane. 

1782
01:33:18,680 --> 01:33:22,400
I mean, imagine having a tool 
that has access to all the 

1783
01:33:22,400 --> 01:33:25,560
world's information and all you 
need to do is ask a question and

1784
01:33:25,560 --> 01:33:27,960
it can answer it. 
That's what it does and that's 

1785
01:33:27,960 --> 01:33:31,240
on the simplest level, like it 
does so much more than that. 

1786
01:33:31,240 --> 01:33:38,440
So yeah, I mean, you can have it
look at, you know, here's all 

1787
01:33:38,440 --> 01:33:40,800
the files I've got stored about 
the twister. 

1788
01:33:40,800 --> 01:33:43,920
Can you read all of these 
different documents and then 

1789
01:33:43,920 --> 01:33:47,560
tell me what the next twister 
which I want to call the the 

1790
01:33:47,560 --> 01:33:49,840
dancing flower? 
What should it be? 

1791
01:33:50,160 --> 01:33:51,720
What should it be? 
It'll tell you. 

1792
01:33:52,120 --> 01:33:54,200
It'll tell you. 
That's just fantastic, isn't it?

1793
01:33:54,200 --> 01:33:55,920
It'll tell you. 
Yeah, yeah, it's. 

1794
01:33:55,920 --> 01:33:57,320
Interesting. 
You need to, you need to, you 

1795
01:33:57,320 --> 01:34:01,840
need to get AI to scan all 300 
podcasts right? 

1796
01:34:02,320 --> 01:34:04,880
And then tell it to make its own
podcast stove. 

1797
01:34:05,320 --> 01:34:08,000
It's funny because we're 
actually working on something 

1798
01:34:08,000 --> 01:34:08,840
there, my friend. 
I'm. 

1799
01:34:08,840 --> 01:34:10,560
Going to be brilliant. 
It's scandal. 

1800
01:34:10,640 --> 01:34:12,200
Yeah. 
Podcast yeah, yeah yeah. 

1801
01:34:12,880 --> 01:34:17,520
And makes it like spurious. 
That's a lot of work though, 

1802
01:34:17,520 --> 01:34:19,880
because what you'd have to do is
you'd have to download the 

1803
01:34:19,880 --> 01:34:24,480
transcripts for all 300 podcasts
and then have it review all of 

1804
01:34:24,480 --> 01:34:26,720
those transcripts because you 
can get it to watch YouTube 

1805
01:34:26,720 --> 01:34:28,800
videos. 
And based on these YouTube 

1806
01:34:28,800 --> 01:34:30,840
videos, tell me blah, blah, 
blah. 

1807
01:34:31,120 --> 01:34:35,440
Like I could, I could put in a 
video of this podcast that we're

1808
01:34:35,440 --> 01:34:38,120
doing right now. 
I could just put the link to the

1809
01:34:38,120 --> 01:34:42,960
video in a certain AI app I've 
got and it'll watch the video 

1810
01:34:42,960 --> 01:34:46,040
and basically tell me, you know,
the 10 cool things that we 

1811
01:34:46,040 --> 01:34:49,080
talked about or whatever. 
Or it could do a podcast about 

1812
01:34:49,080 --> 01:34:53,040
this podcast. 
So right. 

1813
01:34:53,240 --> 01:34:56,320
I just showed you the the where 
the future's going, isn't it? 

1814
01:34:56,480 --> 01:34:59,200
Exactly. 
So all I can tell you is for 

1815
01:34:59,200 --> 01:35:03,080
sure it's going to be different.
I don't believe in I'm not so 

1816
01:35:03,080 --> 01:35:06,320
big on like these virtual 
concerts and stuff where people 

1817
01:35:06,320 --> 01:35:10,360
wear like those meta threads on 
their face and and they go stand

1818
01:35:10,360 --> 01:35:13,440
in a crowd and and this is a 
concert now. 

1819
01:35:13,440 --> 01:35:16,720
I think there's always going to 
be live bands on stage audience 

1820
01:35:16,720 --> 01:35:22,720
over here, you know, and like, I
don't know, like maybe custom 

1821
01:35:22,720 --> 01:35:24,680
mixes. 
I could see people going to 

1822
01:35:24,680 --> 01:35:28,520
concerts with headphones on 
instead of, you know, instead of

1823
01:35:28,920 --> 01:35:30,880
just blasting the sound out at 
them. 

1824
01:35:30,880 --> 01:35:33,600
I think there's going to be some
sound things like right now a 

1825
01:35:33,600 --> 01:35:36,440
lot of the sound technology is 
going to like these multiple 

1826
01:35:36,440 --> 01:35:39,760
points, smaller speakers, but 
lots of them where you've you're

1827
01:35:39,760 --> 01:35:42,960
completely surrounded by sound 
everywhere, like this sphere in 

1828
01:35:42,960 --> 01:35:45,240
Las Vegas. 
I'm going to go. 

1829
01:35:45,480 --> 01:35:49,280
I'm going to go there hopefully 
this next to this year, yeah. 

1830
01:35:49,560 --> 01:35:51,040
So are you going? 
To be at LDI this year. 

1831
01:35:51,680 --> 01:35:54,320
No, no, I'm not going to hold it
there, but bummer. 

1832
01:35:54,320 --> 01:35:55,640
You know, we're just going to go
on holiday. 

1833
01:35:55,640 --> 01:35:56,760
We're going to go holiday in. 
We're. 

1834
01:35:58,160 --> 01:36:02,240
Going to go to. 
Vegas and what I'll be Yeah, all

1835
01:36:02,240 --> 01:36:03,960
good that'll be. 
Fun. 

1836
01:36:04,160 --> 01:36:07,160
Well, I mean, it's, it's 
certainly been a blast catching 

1837
01:36:07,160 --> 01:36:08,680
up with you. 
Yeah, and you too. 

1838
01:36:08,760 --> 01:36:09,960
Well, so brilliant. 
Thank you. 

1839
01:36:09,960 --> 01:36:13,760
And we should have a longer 
personal call at some point and 

1840
01:36:13,760 --> 01:36:16,720
we can talk about AI and we can 
tell the real truth about what 

1841
01:36:16,720 --> 01:36:22,000
we think of the industry. 
And just kidding, I love the 

1842
01:36:22,000 --> 01:36:24,760
industry. 
It is a fun industry. 

1843
01:36:25,040 --> 01:36:27,280
I mean, if you have to do 
something, this is a pretty fun 

1844
01:36:27,280 --> 01:36:29,000
place to do it, you know? 
Yeah. 

1845
01:36:29,000 --> 01:36:31,680
And, and at the end of the day, 
the reality is this, this 

1846
01:36:31,680 --> 01:36:36,400
industry is, you know, it's 
billions and billions and 

1847
01:36:36,400 --> 01:36:40,040
billions of dollars, right? 
There's not many other 

1848
01:36:40,040 --> 01:36:43,760
industries that really expand 
out as massively as what 

1849
01:36:43,880 --> 01:36:48,200
entertainment does because it 
just, it just captivates 

1850
01:36:48,200 --> 01:36:50,520
everything, didn't it? 
From truck drivers to cooks to. 

1851
01:36:51,000 --> 01:36:53,160
Pioneer everything. 
Yeah. 

1852
01:36:53,520 --> 01:36:55,560
It's huge, right? 
Yeah, no. 

1853
01:36:55,560 --> 01:36:58,200
And and you don't feel that like
when you go to a trade show or 

1854
01:36:58,200 --> 01:37:00,600
something, it feels like a 
really small industry and you 

1855
01:37:00,600 --> 01:37:03,440
know, all the people in it, like
I know everyone in this 

1856
01:37:03,440 --> 01:37:06,520
industry, right. 
But even that's changing like as

1857
01:37:06,520 --> 01:37:10,000
we get older, you know, there's 
three generation under us now. 

1858
01:37:10,000 --> 01:37:13,880
And and so even that's changing.
Like I walk around trade shows 

1859
01:37:13,880 --> 01:37:17,040
and go I don't know anyone here.
When when we first bought out 

1860
01:37:17,040 --> 01:37:21,680
the X lights, right And some of 
the first customers were sons 

1861
01:37:22,240 --> 01:37:24,600
and daughters. 
Yeah, the. 

1862
01:37:24,600 --> 01:37:26,480
Of those companies you used to 
work with? 

1863
01:37:26,880 --> 01:37:29,440
Because the parents used to have
abstract. 

1864
01:37:29,840 --> 01:37:31,760
That's wild. 
That's really cool. 

1865
01:37:32,240 --> 01:37:34,120
Because the parents had 
abstracts the parents. 

1866
01:37:34,120 --> 01:37:36,760
Abstract The thing with the 
generational brand and. 

1867
01:37:36,920 --> 01:37:38,280
The thing with abstracts 
zigging. 

1868
01:37:38,280 --> 01:37:41,520
Generations with abstract. 
Well, they, they, they were, you

1869
01:37:41,520 --> 01:37:44,360
know, well, that's kind of it. 
But they always say one thing is

1870
01:37:44,360 --> 01:37:46,360
that the the product never 
breaks. 

1871
01:37:46,560 --> 01:37:48,480
Yeah. 
And there's a lot of truth 

1872
01:37:48,480 --> 01:37:50,920
behind that, you know? 
Well, you know what I mean? 

1873
01:37:51,480 --> 01:37:53,960
At the end of the day, like you 
take a lot of pride. 

1874
01:37:53,960 --> 01:37:55,400
You've been doing it a long 
time. 

1875
01:37:55,480 --> 01:37:58,680
Every fixture, every product 
that goes out of that factory, 

1876
01:37:59,080 --> 01:38:01,720
you've touched it or looked at 
it or something, you know? 

1877
01:38:01,720 --> 01:38:04,280
And yeah, I mean, it's 
meaningful. 

1878
01:38:04,280 --> 01:38:07,000
That's meaningful. 
I love buying local. 

1879
01:38:07,000 --> 01:38:10,200
I love buying, you know, but in 
our industry, it's getting 

1880
01:38:10,200 --> 01:38:12,160
harder and harder. 
Like, look at a country and A 

1881
01:38:12,640 --> 01:38:17,680
and a market the size of the US.
There's not that many US 

1882
01:38:17,680 --> 01:38:21,440
manufacturers anymore, you know,
very few, very few. 

1883
01:38:21,600 --> 01:38:24,840
That it might change now under 
the new regime. 

1884
01:38:24,840 --> 01:38:26,200
Who knows? 
Who knows? 

1885
01:38:26,200 --> 01:38:28,120
Like I think that's a lot of 
noise right now. 

1886
01:38:28,120 --> 01:38:30,680
That'll probably quiet down, but
pretty nice. 

1887
01:38:32,480 --> 01:38:35,960
Yeah. 
Yeah, Right, Steve. 

1888
01:38:36,120 --> 01:38:40,200
Thanks mate, appreciate it. 
Good to see you and I hope to 

1889
01:38:40,200 --> 01:38:42,040
see you in real life at some 
point here. 

1890
01:38:42,440 --> 01:38:46,840
My girlfriend's going to London 
on Thursday to see her her mom 

1891
01:38:46,840 --> 01:38:50,560
but but I'm not going with her 
this time so. 

1892
01:38:51,800 --> 01:38:53,760
You stay at home. 
I'll stay at home. 

1893
01:38:54,200 --> 01:38:56,720
Hope you enjoy your your cabin 
anyway. 

1894
01:38:57,680 --> 01:38:59,680
I'm not there. 
I'm I'm in Florida right now. 

1895
01:38:59,920 --> 01:39:00,880
All right. 
So you don't. 

1896
01:39:00,880 --> 01:39:01,640
You don't. 
You don't. 

1897
01:39:01,640 --> 01:39:03,920
I go to Canada in like June, May
OR. 

1898
01:39:03,960 --> 01:39:06,360
It's a lovely place, isn't? 
It it is nice. 

1899
01:39:06,360 --> 01:39:07,560
You should come up there. 
Yeah. 

1900
01:39:07,560 --> 01:39:10,200
Let's go visit. 
It looks to me somewhere really 

1901
01:39:10,200 --> 01:39:11,560
special. 
It is. 

1902
01:39:11,600 --> 01:39:13,880
You should come and visit. 
And I have loads of space too. 

1903
01:39:13,880 --> 01:39:16,240
So you could have your own floor
in it. 

1904
01:39:16,560 --> 01:39:18,240
Oh, wow. 
That's how you got your own. 

1905
01:39:18,360 --> 01:39:20,360
It's not a big floor, but it is 
a floor. 

1906
01:39:20,920 --> 01:39:22,320
Floor, right? 
The floor is a floor. 

1907
01:39:22,320 --> 01:39:24,440
You got your own floor. 
Yeah. 

1908
01:39:24,880 --> 01:39:27,000
All right, mate. 
I really appreciate it mate. 

1909
01:39:27,160 --> 01:39:28,920
All right, see you later. 
Cheers. 

1910
01:39:28,920 --> 01:39:32,640
Bye. 
And today's podcast episode 

1911
01:39:32,640 --> 01:39:36,160
number 300 is also brought to 
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1912
01:39:36,280 --> 01:39:39,280
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1913
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1914
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1915
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staging and video gear. 
Gear Source continues to evolve 

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you by a brand new Geysers of 
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1928
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1929
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1930
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1931
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1932
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1933
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1934
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1935
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Their team doesn't just supply 

1937
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1938
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