1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:03,000 You have got to check this one out. 2 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:06,040 My head is going to explode I think. 3 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:10,760 I just went to audio college here with Bob McCarthy. 4 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:12,760 What a smart dude. Oh my God. 5 00:00:13,040 --> 00:00:19,720 He has been working with or for Meyer Sound for over 40 years 6 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:22,040 now. He's done many, many things with 7 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:24,040 Metallica. Lots and lots of things with 8 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:28,720 lots of other bands. Super smart guy when it comes to 9 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:33,320 designing engineering audio systems and really, really big 10 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:37,200 loud audio systems too. I, I saw Metallica last year 11 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:41,360 with a system that he helped design and, and put together for 12 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:43,680 them. So yeah, take a listen, hope you 13 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:48,000 like it, have fun and don't forget to like, subscribe and 14 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:51,480 share. Hello and thank you for joining 15 00:00:51,480 --> 00:00:54,280 me today on Geez of Gear. Today's podcast is brought to 16 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:58,520 you by a brand new Geez of Gear sponsor, Artistry in Motion. 17 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:02,760 When it's time to make a moment unforgettable, Artistry in 18 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:06,880 Motion delivers. Since 1994 they've been the go 19 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:11,360 to source for top tier confetti and streamer special effects, 20 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:15,200 turning ordinary events into explosive show stopping 21 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:18,680 experiences. 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Founded in 2002 with a mission 33 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:05,160 to support live event businesses buy and sell gear globally. 34 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,479 Since that time, the company has transacted in more than 100 35 00:02:08,479 --> 00:02:12,360 countries, selling 1/4 billion dollars in sound, lighting, 36 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:15,440 staging and video gear. 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And as I like to say quite 47 00:03:25,500 --> 00:03:29,860 often, please like and subscribe and share this podcast. 48 00:03:30,420 --> 00:03:32,220 It really does help us to grow the show. 49 00:03:32,220 --> 00:03:36,040 It helps us add more guests, it helps our guests a lot. 50 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:40,560 It shares their information, but it certainly also helps us bring 51 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:44,040 on and support our sponsors. And without sponsors, we can't 52 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:46,560 do this thing. So please, like, subscribe, 53 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:50,720 share it as much as possible. We appreciate you very much and 54 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:53,640 I will keep trying to deliver really great podcasts to you. 55 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:58,560 Today we have a brand new sponsor on board, which is 56 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:02,640 Artistry in Motion. They are a confetti and special 57 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:06,360 effects company based out of California, and just reading 58 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:10,040 about them, they've just done the Super Bowl, which was pretty 59 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:12,640 incredible. You always see just a ton of 60 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:15,320 confetti coming in and it's pretty interesting because they 61 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:18,680 need to load it up and be prepared for whichever team 62 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:19,959 wins. This year it was either 63 00:04:19,959 --> 00:04:24,560 Philadelphia or Kansas City, who I don't like to say out loud. 64 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:29,800 And of course, Philadelphia won. And so boom, they're putting in 65 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:34,160 green and white Philadelphia Super Bowl, little Super Bowl 66 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:37,640 trophies. And if it would have been Kansas 67 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,480 City, it would have been red and white Super Bowl trophies. 68 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:44,120 So they do really great work. They did not only the Super 69 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:47,120 Bowl, but they also did the national championship game for 70 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:50,720 football, for college football, which is a pretty big deal. 71 00:04:52,280 --> 00:04:53,840 So they do a lot of really cool stuff. 72 00:04:53,840 --> 00:04:58,200 It's so fun to have, you know, unusual or different or sort of 73 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:02,600 out of the normal lighting sound manufacturers or video 74 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:05,320 manufacturers. And so we're really happy to 75 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:07,560 have them on board. Thank you guys very much for 76 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:11,320 being a sponsor of Geezer Gear and I look forward to 77 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:16,880 representing you. So two days guest is actually 78 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:19,040 someone I don't know. And so I'm really looking 79 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:21,600 forward to along with you, I'm going to learn about this guy 80 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:24,360 too. Bob McCarthy is a leading expert 81 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:26,920 in sound system design and optimization. 82 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:29,320 He's got over 40 years in the industry. 83 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:35,160 He pioneered Source Independent Measurement Measurement for SIM 84 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:39,680 in 1984 and has worked on major productions including Metallica, 85 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:43,840 Cirque du Soleil, and Broadway hits like Wicked and Les 86 00:05:43,840 --> 00:05:47,040 Miserables. His book Sound Systems Design 87 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:50,640 and Optimization is a go to resource for audio professional 88 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:54,760 professionals worldwide. A sought after educator and 89 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:59,040 consultant, Bob continues to shape the future of live sound 90 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:05,080 through his work, seminars, and ongoing projects with top 91 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:08,360 artists and venues. So please join me and let's 92 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:11,040 welcome and say hello to Mr. Bob McCarthy. 93 00:06:11,840 --> 00:06:15,240 Hello Bob. Hello, how are you I'm. 94 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:18,720 Good, Marcel. Bob has colorful glasses and a 95 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:21,840 very colorful shirt. And I'm jealous. 96 00:06:21,840 --> 00:06:24,720 I'm a little bit jealous. I'm a little dark and black and 97 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,480 you know, I'm, I'm the Metallica version right now, I guess. 98 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:32,000 Yeah, all in black and no color at all. 99 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:35,200 And you've, you've got a lot of stuff going on, so I appreciate 100 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:37,480 that. So I've been, I've been looking 101 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:41,640 forward to this. I am admittedly a lighting guy 102 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:46,440 for the most part, and so I apologize in advance if I talk 103 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,600 like an idiot when it comes to some of my stupid questions or 104 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:53,120 whatever. You know, I used to I grew up 105 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:59,160 playing in bands and and you know, I could go up to a sound 106 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:04,200 craft, you know, whatever it was called SR24, the 24 channel, you 107 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:07,880 know, really flat, boxy looking sound craft console and make a 108 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:11,480 band sound pretty good. But it was a whole different 109 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:14,480 thing back then. You know, it's, it's, you've 110 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:16,800 come through all of these different steps, which is so 111 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:18,080 cool. That's one of the things I 112 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:21,160 really want to talk about is really that, that evolution of, 113 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:25,560 of not just live sound, but all sound, you know, from all 114 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,560 versions of analog to all kinds of different digital stuff. 115 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,120 And, and you've been there for all of it, which is cool. 116 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:37,560 So where, where did you start? How did you start? 117 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:39,360 What? What got you into sound? 118 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:44,880 Well, it really starts with The Beatles on Ed Sullivan. 119 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:50,480 I mean, either literally. No, no, on Ed Sullivan you could 120 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:53,280 at the at. When they came, when they came. 121 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:56,680 When they came to town, they came to my city, which was Saint 122 00:07:56,680 --> 00:08:02,880 Louis, and my brother went and, and my wife also went by future 123 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:04,920 wife. And they, they can tell you that 124 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:09,680 they they saw The Beatles. They're very careful in the 125 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:13,560 choice of words. So what? 126 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:17,520 What was that system back then? Well, it was a. 127 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:21,800 It was basically just what they would pick up locally and then 128 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:24,680 they would pipe into the existing house like. 129 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:26,960 The horns. The house horns, Yes. 130 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:32,520 And at at at at Golden Gate Park. 131 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:35,440 Not not Golden Gate Park. At Candlestick Park. 132 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:37,960 It was McEwen Sound that provided it. 133 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:40,440 And. Some all tech horns and it, you 134 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:45,120 know, stuff stacked up on the ground and it was it was just a 135 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:49,840 just a mess, just a mess. It's going to make you cringe 136 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:53,200 thinking of what they had to try to do in a stadium show. 137 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:54,960 Like these aren't little theaters or something. 138 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:57,760 These are stadiums. It's hard enough today with the 139 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:03,600 with the, you know, the stuff we have today, let alone going back 140 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:05,200 there. I've actually done a 141 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:10,960 presentation on audio failure and that is the star of the 142 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:13,080 show. And I'm not blaming the sound 143 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:15,600 company. What you, what the what the deal 144 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:20,080 is, is that the promoters and they were ready to book 145 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:24,040 stadiums, but nothing else was ready. 146 00:09:24,560 --> 00:09:27,160 Yeah. The lighting wasn't ready, the 147 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:29,800 sound wasn't ready. The staging wasn't ready. 148 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:34,960 Like Ringo Starr will tell you, he just would look and read lips 149 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:37,160 because he couldn't tell us. Wow. 150 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:40,000 We couldn't hear a single thing that anybody was singing or 151 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:43,640 playing and. So even stage monitors didn't 152 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:45,040 exist? Wow. 153 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:49,360 It's incredible that like the need, the the demand happened 154 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:52,000 before the supply in that. Situation. 155 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:55,840 It is really interesting. Wow, it just exploded just 156 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:58,320 overnight. All of a sudden stadiums boom 157 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:02,560 and nobody was ready for it. Yeah, so you saw The Beatles on 158 00:10:02,560 --> 00:10:05,320 Ed Sullivan and and that inspired you to get involved 159 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:08,520 somehow? That inspired me to music to 160 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:12,400 like really dig in because I was I'm a I'm a member of a 161 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:16,360 construction company family, McCarthy Construction, which is 162 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:19,960 like the 7th largest construction company in the USA. 163 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:21,600 It's a big company. Wow, good for you. 164 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:25,520 And I was all everybody had it all figured out. 165 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:28,240 I was going to go into the company and then I started my 166 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:30,440 life of crime on that particular day. 167 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:35,320 Went went and got a guitar the the next the next day. 168 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:38,840 Forgot to mention to anybody that I was left-handed. 169 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:42,960 Yes. So did you just flip it over 170 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:46,360 like Hendrix style? No, I didn't. 171 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:49,560 It didn't even occur to me. I just took my lessons like a 172 00:10:49,560 --> 00:10:53,320 right-handed person, and I still play guitar and I still play it 173 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:55,920 right-handed. You know what's so friggin 174 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:57,280 bizarre? Like when we were talking 175 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:01,320 beforehand, you told me, you know, you spell your name six O 176 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:04,720 6 because it's Bob and it's backwards like us left-handed 177 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:08,560 people basically. And, and I'm left-handed. 178 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:11,400 Well, same thing. I learned to play guitar 179 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,120 right-handed. I play, I play hockey 180 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:16,760 right-handed. I pretty much do, I play tennis 181 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:19,480 right-handed, but I have a left-handed forehand in tennis 182 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:24,000 as well. And I've I've just automatically 183 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:26,880 learned everything right-handed for some reason, but I right and 184 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:30,840 eat left-handed. Oh, funny, for for me it's 185 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:36,400 pretty much everything left-handed except for a 186 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,680 trackball, which is the bane of my existence. 187 00:11:39,680 --> 00:11:43,160 I can't do it either handed, but I have to default to 188 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:45,640 right-handed on that. Yeah, yeah. 189 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:48,040 Oh, but you said you play guitar right-handed. 190 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:51,200 Or did you switch and that? Well I use both hands but yes IA 191 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:54,520 100% I'm a. I'm a normal you. 192 00:11:54,560 --> 00:11:56,760 You would never know I'm left-handed by watching me play 193 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:57,600 guitar. Really. 194 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,440 But all other things, like if you were to pick up a a tennis 195 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:03,440 racket, you'd hold it left-handed a. 100% I'm left 196 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:06,800 weird, left eyed, left footing, left-handed. 197 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:10,040 Interesting. See, I'm pretty ambidextrous on 198 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:13,880 most things, like my feet. My, you know, I can't even like 199 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:16,960 I figure I keep trying to think if I was a boxer, would I, you 200 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:19,200 know, would I be that way or that way? 201 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:23,200 And, and I just, you know, they both feel pretty natural to me. 202 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:25,720 So I don't know, it's it's weird. 203 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:27,800 I don't know why. Have you ever researched why 204 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:30,400 some people just kind of do different things with different? 205 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:35,080 Yes, there's a really good book. It's called The Causes and 206 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,440 Consequences of left hand of of left Sidedness. 207 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:44,160 And it goes through left ear, left eye, left foot and left 208 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:47,280 hand. And it's hard. 209 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:50,200 Fascinating. Of and consequences. 210 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:54,560 Of left sidedness or or maybe it's just of sightedness? 211 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:00,360 Cool, I'm gonna get that because I I've always wondered, but I've 212 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:04,720 never wondered to a point of actually pursuing it, but I'm 213 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:06,120 going to get it. I love reading books. 214 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:09,680 So it'll be it'll be on my list. So that's very cool. 215 00:13:09,680 --> 00:13:15,080 So that is bizarre. So your father probably kind of 216 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:17,840 went, huh. We're not going to stay in our 217 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:22,560 family business and, you know, take that path that leads to, 218 00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:26,120 you know, pretty much guaranteed success and you're going to go 219 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:30,080 down this other Rd. with a bunch of crazy gypsies and go do 220 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:32,480 sound. Was it immediately sound? 221 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:35,200 No, it was not sound. Of course I wanted to be on the 222 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,280 stage that was. Pursuing music at this point. 223 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:40,680 You wanted to be wanted to be a star. 224 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:44,120 But I went then to Indiana University, which had the 225 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:49,680 largest music school in America. And once again I can go to a 226 00:13:49,680 --> 00:13:54,400 single moment. And on my first night arriving, 227 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:58,960 I went down to the common room and watched as one person after 228 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:02,360 another played musical instruments of various sorts. 229 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:06,200 And I went, OK, you're not going to be a musician. 230 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:08,760 Why? They were just too good. 231 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:13,360 Oh, it was just like holy God. You and I followed each other's 232 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:16,640 paths really well because except for the fact that I never took 233 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:18,800 it seriously enough to go to school or anything. 234 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:22,280 I, I got into it because of girls and fun and, and, you 235 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:26,000 know, like I was 12 years old and I started as a professional 236 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:31,880 singer and went out with a rock band and made no money until I 237 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:37,120 was about 18 and finally said, OK, you know, at like 18 or 19, 238 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:39,320 my bar tabs were more than my wages. 239 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:42,040 And I just went, this isn't going to work for me. 240 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:44,200 You know, I got to figure something else out. 241 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:48,080 And I went sort of behind the stage as well. 242 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:51,400 So it's funny, we followed some pretty similar paths in life. 243 00:14:52,960 --> 00:15:00,040 So the, the interesting twist on it now is this is 19 7675 is 244 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:05,160 when this is happening 75 and, and there is no audio program, 245 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:10,840 but I but I knew now I wanted to be in, in music, but I was 246 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:14,600 really actually a pretty technical and very, I had a lot 247 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:18,360 of scientific methodology baked into my brain because we had an 248 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:20,200 engineering and a medical family. 249 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:24,560 My father was a doctor and his two brothers ran the 250 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:29,280 construction company. So it's a, it's a, it's a very 251 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:34,160 grounded environment. And except you. 252 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:40,120 Well, but it turns out it's me too, because, because I, you 253 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:44,680 know, when I got into sound, I got into the scientific side of 254 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:49,400 it and that's where I've really lived pretty much all my career. 255 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:53,800 But so they, what I did was I went and talked to the music 256 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:58,560 school people and they needed people to do sound for the jazz 257 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,040 band and for recordings for the Symphony and all that. 258 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:02,840 And so I started to volunteer there. 259 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:06,400 And then they told me that they were thinking of a new thing 260 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:11,640 where they could do a program that you self design and you can 261 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:15,320 make your own custom program in whatever you want. 262 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,040 I see so. So you, so I went to this 263 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:22,080 independent learning program and then and said I want to make a 264 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:25,880 degree in audio engineering. And we cobbled together pieces 265 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:28,800 out of all the different departments and made a degree. 266 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:31,280 And that's that's where it starts. 267 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:35,560 And that was at what school? At Indiana University OK in 268 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:40,080 Bloomington IN Wow and of course they now have a a full program 269 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:44,480 now and. But you were there when it 270 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:46,400 started. I was there when it started 271 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:47,600 exactly. That's very cool. 272 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:50,960 Yeah. So how long was the program? 273 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:53,600 Well, for me to. Get this degree. 274 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:58,240 For me, it was a full 4 year Bachelor of Science. 275 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:02,480 For now, I believe it's a they have a two year program and I 276 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:04,960 think they might have a three-year program also, but. 277 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:09,400 Interesting. And so you got out of that and 278 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:13,359 immediately got a job wrapping cable in a shop for someone? 279 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:17,800 Well, no, they, they, I did a, they arranged an internship for 280 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,400 me to go to a studio in Dallas, TX. 281 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:24,200 And so I started at this studio and I knew in my career that I 282 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:27,480 wanted to do recording and I wanted to do live work because I 283 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:31,640 wanted to do all the work. Of course, at that time people 284 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:36,000 did a lot of cross pollination. Now it's a very specialized 285 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:38,560 world. You don't you don't get a lot of 286 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:40,680 people moving between disciplines. 287 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:44,120 But at that time that's what it was. 288 00:17:44,120 --> 00:17:47,520 And I'm sitting in this studio and realizing I've got to wait 289 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,840 for someone to die before I going to move to the next 290 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:54,960 position in the studio. It's going to be a long time and 291 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,720 I'm 23 years old. The right thing to do now is to 292 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:01,280 do the the live sound part. And there was a company 293 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:06,720 literally like 1/4 mile down the road called Shoko. 294 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:11,960 Of course, yeah. So I went to Shoko and showed 295 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:15,200 him my resume, which included a degree in audio engineering, and 296 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:21,560 I'll never forget what BJ Shiller's response to that was. 297 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:25,800 He says a degree in audio? I never seen that. 298 00:18:26,120 --> 00:18:29,280 Yeah, that's funny. We and I have been one of the 299 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:31,440 first. Literally. 300 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,240 Yeah. Yes, we get our best guys out of 301 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:39,600 laundromats. Yeah, well, he wasn't wrong. 302 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:44,760 OK, Yeah, exactly. And so he says, you know, are 303 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:47,960 you going to be asking a lot of questions and stirring things up 304 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:51,360 and said, you know, I'm work with, I'm a team player. 305 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:56,680 I work with the group. After a week in this shop 306 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,040 painting boxes, I got called out to a show. 307 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:01,400 And the first thing they did is like, hey, you're the guy with 308 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:04,840 the audio degree fix the home in the system. 309 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:08,880 It's like. Wow, and you're brand? 310 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:10,560 New. That's wild. 311 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:14,680 It's like, OK, here we go. Was this a big show or just a? 312 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:18,160 Oh, it was arena tour. Arena tour with the Ojs. 313 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:23,240 Jesus, And they got this green guy straight out of school and 314 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:25,280 they're counting on you to fix the problem. 315 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:27,240 Exactly. That's incredible. 316 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:28,360 And it's like, it's cool. Let's. 317 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:30,480 Go. Did you get it? 318 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:33,440 Yeah. Yeah, so. 319 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:35,960 I'll never forget the the life. Lesson. 320 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:40,880 No, the life lesson that day, which I carry forward to me was 321 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:46,320 Randy Barner, who was the crew chief for audio, brought me out 322 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:50,400 to the to the to the truck. And I'll after you get 323 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:52,480 everything sound checked. And now you're at that like 324 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:55,640 quiet time, dinner before the show. 325 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:58,160 He's like, OK, I need to know what kind of person you are 326 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:00,240 because there's two kind of people in the world. 327 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:06,760 Are you Mr. Make it Happen? I'm like, there's two kinds. 328 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:09,840 There's people that make it happen, or they're people that 329 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:12,680 tell you all the reasons why they can't make it happen. 330 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:19,120 I am so with that. I said I am Mr. Make it Happen 331 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:23,640 and that construct has informed my whole career. 332 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:28,240 I always gravitate towards towards partnering up with 333 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,240 people that identify as the make it happen people. 334 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:35,920 Yeah, that's, that's such an amazing point and I love it so 335 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,680 much. Like I, you know, I don't think 336 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:41,360 I've ever defined it quite as well as you just did, you know, 337 00:20:41,360 --> 00:20:44,760 Mr. Make it happen or, or all the reasons you can't. 338 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:50,520 But I, I have employees, I have friends, I have even family 339 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:54,000 members who are like that. And it drives me crazy because 340 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:58,440 it's like, you know, well, I could never lose 50 lbs because, 341 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,560 you know, it's not just work, It's anything in life, you know, 342 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:04,000 exactly all the reasons why I can't do things. 343 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:09,080 And I'm always Uber focused on there's, there's something out 344 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:11,840 there, there's a solution. I just haven't found it yet, you 345 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:14,280 know? And so I love that. 346 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:15,680 Yeah. That's cool. 347 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:18,400 Yeah. So how long did you stay at 348 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:22,200 Shoko then? It wasn't that long, it was 349 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,720 about a year and a half, and Shoko had a major contraction 350 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:29,400 because this band that they were heavily invested, broke up the 351 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:31,520 band's name. I can't remember something about 352 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:35,840 Genesis or something like that. Yeah, plus they were distracted 353 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:39,800 by all these wiggly things. Yeah, on the lighting. 354 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,880 Side yes, that was exactly starting at that time. 355 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:47,480 And so they they had a big and I was young, you know, I was new, 356 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:50,320 fairly new at the company. So I, they trimmed everybody 357 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:54,440 down and I could have stayed and, and, you know, weathered it 358 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:56,200 out. But I came to California and 359 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,920 joined FM Productions. Oh, OK, another good company. 360 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:07,680 And because I had, I had one, I'd seen their work as a person 361 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:11,320 attending shows and I their work, they were doing the 362 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:13,040 Grateful Dead sound at that time. 363 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,840 And I could tell the quality of their work was super high. 364 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,160 And I wanted to gravitate towards that. 365 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,960 And that's what brings me out to California and it brings me out 366 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:28,960 to meeting John Meyer. And that was gigantic, my 367 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:30,760 career. Yeah, yeah. 368 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:34,560 I mean, you still work with Meyer stuff today, right? 369 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:36,520 Yeah, I'm an employee of Meyer Sound, Yes. 370 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,440 Yeah, yeah. So no, I mean, that's obviously 371 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,560 an incredible run with Meyer, 40 years or whatever, right? 372 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,040 That's wild. That's wild. 373 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:53,640 That is so amazing. So so at FM you met Meyer, but 374 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:57,360 were you now touring or were you just basically shop and going 375 00:22:57,360 --> 00:22:59,920 out and fixing problems when you needed to or? 376 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:06,880 The I was, I was touring, but FM productions didn't have a lot of 377 00:23:07,360 --> 00:23:12,520 long good, good longs tours. I did, I did heart around the 378 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,680 around the country in North America and a couple of other 379 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,480 things, some Todd Rundgren's. But what they did was they they 380 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:23,200 would pick up dates where somebody was out with another 381 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:26,200 company, but they had like 3 California dates. 382 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,200 So instead of bringing their stuff over the Rockies, we would 383 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:34,720 pick up their San Francisco, LA, San Diego and then say goodbye. 384 00:23:35,360 --> 00:23:38,920 So in the early days, were you were you attacked or were you 385 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,280 front a house right away or how? Did it? 386 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:46,760 No, I was took a while stage station and I was not. 387 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,240 AI was not a big shot by any means. 388 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:53,320 Yeah, yeah, No, I, I wasn't even insinuating that that meant you 389 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:56,240 were a big shot or anything. It's just some people walked 390 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,760 straight in and went to the console and that was it. 391 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:02,480 That was their gig, right? And but I think the smarter 392 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:05,320 people work their way through the system 1st and really 393 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,480 understood everything that was going on and how it went 394 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,600 together and everything. Which do you know? 395 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,640 Ethan Weber from the Stones, the lighting director for the 396 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:15,800 Stones. I do not never worked with the 397 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:17,960 stones. He was he was on the podcast 398 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,960 yesterday and we talked to him about that because same sort of 399 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,160 thing. You know, it's like not everyone 400 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,880 needs to or wants to be the lighting designer. 401 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:31,280 And as the director, you know, I have all the pinch me moments. 402 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:35,480 I get to sit there when the house lights go out and and make 403 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,640 things happen. And you know, it's that's what I 404 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,320 do and I do it really well. And I have a collaboration with 405 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,960 the designer and I don't feel slighted that I'm not the guy 406 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,400 listed as the lighting designer, for example. 407 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,120 So, so yeah. Cool. 408 00:24:51,120 --> 00:24:53,320 So how did it, how did it all progress? 409 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:57,320 So like once you met John, did, did it immediately click that he 410 00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,800 wanted you to come work for Meyer or did that happen much 411 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:01,760 later in life? How did how did that happen? 412 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,640 Meyer Sound was not yet a company when I. 413 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:09,320 Met. And so he had come back to the 414 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:15,360 United States after his adventures in Switzerland and, 415 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:22,360 and he was starting to do, he was basically freelancing out 416 00:25:22,360 --> 00:25:28,040 design work for FM productions. He, he designed a system and 417 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:34,360 then then the company started and they did their first 418 00:25:34,360 --> 00:25:38,640 products which were a subwoofer for Apocalypse Now and then the 419 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,280 Ultra monitor, which is a stage monitor. 420 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:46,680 And so I was working for FM when we took hold of both of those 421 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:50,000 products that the subwoofers did their cinema run. 422 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:51,400 And then what are you going to do with them? 423 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:56,040 So, so they came to FM and we started doing Grateful Dead 424 00:25:56,040 --> 00:26:00,960 shows with them and then we did the pardon me, then we did the 425 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:10,040 then we did the first shows with this, this new technology, the 426 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,240 ultra monitor. And it was a new technology 427 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,280 because it was the first case where somebody was taking a 428 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:21,160 complete system, a speaker, the crossover and electronics 429 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,720 dedicated and the speaker protection all in one. 430 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,680 There's no way you could not buy it as a parts. 431 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,920 And, and we all laughed at it was like, huh, what is this 432 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:31,680 little thing? And then we talked into the mic 433 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:37,200 and we went, what just happened? And that was on that day that I 434 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,560 knew. It's like, OK, I need to be 435 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,360 involved with this. Yeah, and that was when. 436 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:50,440 That was the end of 1979, start of 1980. 437 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,040 And so that's when then the company officially started. 438 00:26:55,240 --> 00:27:00,000 And then I got a, A, a design gig for a small club. 439 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:04,400 And I said, they said we want the highest quality speaker you 440 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,280 can get. And I said, I know where it is. 441 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,720 And so that became the first installation of Meyer Sound. 442 00:27:11,120 --> 00:27:15,560 So it was the place where they could send clients to, to hear 443 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,480 the system. And that began my partnership 444 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,520 with them. Wow. 445 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,840 As a really first as a client? Yeah, they're serial number 446 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:28,920 0007. That is crazy. 447 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,040 I love that. That's not that picture you sent 448 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,040 me, is it? That is that that is that that 449 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:35,840 picture. Oh, I want to share that now. 450 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:37,200 Is that OK? Yeah. 451 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,560 I'm going to hang on a second. Let me just pop this up here. 452 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:48,400 Is that it there? Yep. 453 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:53,000 So this is a tiny little club in Berkeley, CA. 454 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:58,040 It's called the Berkeley Square and there was now this is what 455 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,920 you see on there is the is the subwoofers. 456 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,520 Those were the original subwoofers from Apocalypse Now 457 00:28:04,120 --> 00:28:08,440 and then that is the UPA. The original installation was 458 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:10,880 the Ultra monitor. It was the stage monitor which I 459 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,240 rigged up there. But then the UPA became 460 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:16,760 available a year later and we changed it out. 461 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,160 Interesting. That's wild. 462 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,200 And people would come in and they would see this PA and this 463 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:27,040 is a punk rock nightclub. We had, you know, a bunch of 464 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:33,120 people who would become later famous, the go Go's X and a 465 00:28:35,120 --> 00:28:40,840 bunch of Black Flag and flipper and icons in the in the in the 466 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,600 punk community. And they would look at it and 467 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,320 they would go that there's no way we. 468 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:50,280 Need and this is this. It's the first ever Meyer sound 469 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,720 install. Yeah, I think there was a small 470 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:58,520 club called Bimbo's over in San Francisco that was doing, you 471 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,760 know, kind of cabaret kind of stuff. 472 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:05,240 But this was the place where it was really put to to the test. 473 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:10,400 And and so they would, they would all, they would laugh at 474 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:11,440 it. And then I'd say, well, do you 475 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,200 want to just hear it first? And I would turn it on. 476 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:16,480 And it was the mouse that roared. 477 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:22,480 And there's fun, OK? Yeah, that's incredible. 478 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:24,760 I love it. Yeah. 479 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:28,440 So, so then what? Like how did, how did things 480 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,320 just kept progressing from there and. 481 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,800 So Meyerstalm was a small company and it was out by 482 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,120 Oakland airport. And then they moved to Berkeley 483 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:38,560 in 1983. And I said, well, if you're 484 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:42,200 moving to Berkeley, which is where I lived, then you must be 485 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,000 expanding. What do you say? 486 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,360 Let's what did you say? I joined the company and they 487 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,760 said let's do it. So that's where it began. 488 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:51,600 In 80. Three, yeah. 489 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,440 So it's 40 years, Jesus. And you still work for them 490 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:56,600 today? Yeah. 491 00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,840 And you've worked for them non-stop for 40 years? 492 00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:02,240 No. No, I, I, I did a freelance 493 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:11,320 period between 19 seventy, 1997 and 2014, but I always stayed 494 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,040 affiliated. They, they, they were a big part 495 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:15,720 of my business. So I did a lot of consulting 496 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,400 work and still did trainings for them and was still involved with 497 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:24,320 development of the, of the same analyzer next generation and 498 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,760 these kind of things. So my my bond is a is a lifetime 499 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:32,320 bond with with the company. And so your role has always been 500 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:38,200 sort of on the user slash design side, or? 501 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,760 Yes. Well, where my, my thing was 502 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:47,960 that I came to the company with a knowledge of touring because I 503 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:51,160 had touring experience, but I was young and so I was able to 504 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,520 still be mobile. I could get out in the fields 505 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:58,640 and and do customer assistance. I wasn't running the company so 506 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,560 I could get out there. I mean, John of course had Rd. 507 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,760 experience and others, but they were vital to keep the 508 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:06,960 engineering going and production going. 509 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,640 They had to sign payroll checks. You didn't. 510 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,800 Yeah, exactly. So I could get out there and I 511 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:18,920 had then developed, you know, methodologies for using the gear 512 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:24,480 and I began to write and started writing user manual kind of 513 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:29,600 things on on how to apply the stuff and that led them to later 514 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,120 writing entire books on on the subject. 515 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:35,120 Yeah, how many books have you written? 516 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:42,600 I've written three different books and the my then my main 517 00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:44,400 book is in its third edition now. 518 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:47,240 Wow. Yeah, Cool. 519 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:51,160 And they're all on sound theory. Whatever. 520 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:52,800 Yeah. Yeah, they're all on 521 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,240 application. They are essentially they're 522 00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,200 books. Cause what happened was in 1984 523 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:03,640 I got John and I started what with what's called the SIM 524 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,040 analysis program. And if you go to that next 525 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,600 picture, you're going to see the early primordial version of 526 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,600 that. I will give me one second here. 527 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:18,560 It's a, it's an analyzer that is able to look at the music that's 528 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:26,080 leaving the mix console. There we are the IT compares the 529 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:29,920 music leaving the mix console with what's actually arriving 530 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:31,880 out there with the audience. So it's a, it's what's it 531 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:35,800 called, a dual channel fast Fourier transform or FFT 532 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,400 analyzer. What you see on this picture is 533 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:39,640 and that's. This thing right here. 534 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:42,720 Exactly. So that's a piece of Hewlett 535 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:46,800 Packard laboratory gear and that is what we use for R&D and for 536 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:48,680 production testing at the company. 537 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,400 But we took it off of, out of the company and brought it out 538 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:59,400 into the field and, and that's began what is now 100% standard 539 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,840 operating procedure at every show. 540 00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:09,240 The, the, the, the smart system, SMAART is the direct descendant 541 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:15,000 and owns that market. Now it's a $600.00 program and, 542 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,480 and a sound card or a, or a little sound device. 543 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:23,880 Now what it, you know, at that time it was a, that's a $12,000 544 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:30,160 analyzer in 1984 dollars plus a whole pile of outboard gear. 545 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,320 It grew to 600 lbs. Yeah, jeez. 546 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,480 For the full multi channel version with that could do 8 547 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:40,880 microphones and eight equalizers and and all that kind of stuff. 548 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:44,760 And that's doing what again? Well, it's analyzing the system 549 00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:48,480 so that you can see it's like, OK, I've got my speakers up. 550 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,040 What's what's happening to the speakers now that they are 551 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,760 interacting with each other, now that they're interacting with 552 00:33:54,760 --> 00:34:00,360 the room, You know, basically all, all of the reflections or, 553 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:02,840 or straight paths. Anytime you have two speakers, 554 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:06,840 you, they, they cross pollinate and they create a change in the 555 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,679 spectrum, essentially blending colors. 556 00:34:09,679 --> 00:34:11,080 If you look at it in light terms. 557 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:15,800 So that, so that we end up then with all the these scatter plots 558 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:20,639 of, of, of where the sound goes. You know, the, the, the thing 559 00:34:20,639 --> 00:34:24,000 that separates light and sound is everybody can see where the 560 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,280 light goes. If somebody if a light gets 561 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:30,280 diffracted and and sprays off to the wrong direction, everybody 562 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:32,400 can see it. But if something causes the 563 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,880 sound to bend to the wrong place, you just know it doesn't 564 00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,960 sound good where you are. Right. 565 00:34:39,199 --> 00:34:42,040 You don't realize that it's, it's aimed itself into the 566 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,560 ceiling because you can't see it go up there. 567 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:49,199 And so these analysis tools, we can place microphones all out of 568 00:34:49,199 --> 00:34:51,360 the room and we can find where it's gone. 569 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:53,920 And that's really what it's about. 570 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:59,920 It's about turning us from blind people into, you know, assisted. 571 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,720 And we obviously have similar devices today that are that are 572 00:35:03,720 --> 00:35:07,760 a little more, maybe a little more high tech, but you know, 573 00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:09,720 obviously it's advanced a lot now. 574 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,000 Oh, yeah, it's now, it's now so common. 575 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,460 You can have this, You can have what's inside of that Hewlett 576 00:35:16,460 --> 00:35:19,480 Packard device that's can fit on a phone app. 577 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:21,240 Yeah. Yeah, OK. 578 00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:22,720 I mean that's it's changed. The math. 579 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,400 The math has now been condensed and it's a world of computers. 580 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:29,440 I mean literally that thing is transistors and diodes. 581 00:35:29,720 --> 00:35:32,880 Yeah, yeah. So. 582 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:35,400 That's wild. Yeah. 583 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:42,520 So you know when so I mean, obviously back then we're 584 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:44,680 talking about stacks of speakers, right? 585 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,360 It's all point. Source Stacks of speakers. 586 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:49,720 Yes. When when did the first line 587 00:35:49,720 --> 00:35:55,920 array creep in? The late 90s is when the, the V 588 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,320 DOS, which is the the innovator in that field. 589 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:06,240 And by the early 2000's the line array has become the dominant 590 00:36:06,240 --> 00:36:11,080 species. And it's, you know, there was a 591 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,600 there was a period where line arrays were called on to do 592 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:18,080 everything, even when they were really not the right tool. 593 00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,360 It's like sometimes a screwdriver is better than a 594 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:24,920 wrench. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 595 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,200 But a hammer always works. Exactly. 596 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:33,160 Yeah. No, I, you know, like the way 597 00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:38,360 that I explain it in my idiot words is, is usually that, you 598 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:42,480 know, stacks of speakers were usually sort of brute force. 599 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:44,680 If you needed to hit a different part of the arena or the 600 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,880 building, you just turned it up louder or added more stacks of 601 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,680 speakers or whatever. But, you know, this is a much 602 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:54,320 more mathematical approach where things are directed exactly in 603 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,760 every part of the room where they need to be, you know, 604 00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:01,120 smaller sources, more of them directed to very specific parts 605 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:02,040 of the room. Right. 606 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:04,920 Is that sort of truthful? Very truthful. 607 00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,120 We'll think about think about having, you know, as a lighting 608 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:15,000 person, think if you have just a big Bank of, of a par lamps that 609 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,800 are just, you know, completely splashing wide. 610 00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,800 And but then you're given the, the opportunity to go and, and 611 00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:23,520 get something with the Super tight beam. 612 00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:27,440 Now that affords you a whole different opportunity. 613 00:37:27,720 --> 00:37:32,520 And in our case, the, the, the, the thing that people don't 614 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:38,360 realize that was that had to happen before this move happened 615 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:42,120 was that you had to get speakers ready to fly. 616 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,040 Because at the time I started in the industry, sound design is 617 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:50,160 basically how high can you go before it's going to tip over. 618 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:52,920 Yeah, yeah, it's so true. OK. 619 00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:58,360 And the you know or. People's ears bleed, you know, 620 00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:00,960 in the 1st 10 rows or whatever. They do and it was just 621 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,440 horrendous. It's just horrendous when you 622 00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:07,440 have wanted to a stadium and you have to go through the 1st row 623 00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:11,560 to get, you know, to get to 100 yards away. 624 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:15,360 And it was really brutal. And I can remember the the first 625 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:19,360 time that we flew a system at Choco, it was like holy God, 626 00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:23,800 what an amazing difference to have front to back uniformity. 627 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,080 Of course, what was it? It was one of those construction 628 00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:32,120 trays, like they used to take up a whole bunch of painters or 629 00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:35,120 something. So we just ground, stacked and 630 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,200 then raised the tray up. Yeah. 631 00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,760 So it was the same stuff. It was just you were separating 632 00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:42,200 the mid highs from the from the Subs or whatever. 633 00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:44,840 Exactly. And so up it went. 634 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:48,760 But at least it got us to where nobody was a foot in away from. 635 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,560 The speakers, yeah. You weren't being screamed at 636 00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:53,800 all night. Yeah, Yeah. 637 00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:58,200 So, so the idea with a line array, when, when so you're 638 00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:03,640 saying VDV DOS came out with it, L acoustics came out with with 639 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:07,920 line array. And so that whole concept, was 640 00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,840 it immediately accepted? Like did everyone just go, Oh my 641 00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:13,840 God, finally? Or, or was it like, no I don't 642 00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:20,880 really like it? Well, it it started and and it 643 00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:24,320 took time. They were very protective of the 644 00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:26,760 product to to how it was handled. 645 00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:32,040 They wanted to make sure that it was always handled in their, you 646 00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:34,560 know, in their manner, which is something that we could relate 647 00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:38,240 to because Meyer sounded by making its systems captive was 648 00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:45,480 also used that philosophy. But they, they, they held, held 649 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:51,400 out and they explained their theory and then it just kept 650 00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:55,320 delivering results. And the industry said, well, 651 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:59,120 we're going to have to do this. So then it became accepted. 652 00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,800 And then other manufacturers had to answer to that. 653 00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:03,640 And that's funny. That's then. 654 00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,840 Then you get a, you know, Then it becomes a Stampede. 655 00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:11,200 Yeah, yeah, it just became a wave of of everyone and you 656 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,640 know, like what? I know I'm jumping way ahead 657 00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:16,840 here and I'll go backwards again in a second, but I've always 658 00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:20,520 been curious. Like every year I see a new, you 659 00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:26,560 know, J series, K series, L series, M series, you know, they 660 00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,280 just keep coming out with these new series and everybody's 661 00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:31,680 unloading their old ones. This is how I learned about them 662 00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:33,680 because I own a used equipment website. 663 00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:39,640 And so people unload the J to get the K or the KSL or whatever 664 00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:44,160 it is, right? And So what is advancing like 665 00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:46,800 what are the, what are the OR are they little micro 666 00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:50,280 advancements now or are there still big leaps being taken on 667 00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,400 the speaker side of of sound technology right now? 668 00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:58,080 It's incremental. Yeah. 669 00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:02,320 It's incremental, but it's but it's, it's, it's absolutely, you 670 00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:06,480 know, knowable and hearable. You know, there's a there's a 671 00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:13,120 number of things happening. 1 is that our our our materials 672 00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:19,680 technology is improving and the. Lighter, lighter, stronger, more 673 00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:21,960 reliable, that kind of thing. Yes. 674 00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:28,560 And, and the key things is that we have, our industry is, is 675 00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:34,480 robust enough now to that people are upping the level of research 676 00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,120 and development. There's there's, you know, 677 00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:40,800 people that, you know, specialize in, in these 678 00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:47,440 materials that are bringing a whole lot of brain power to, to 679 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:51,080 these, you know, special specialized metals and, and 680 00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:54,560 carbon fiber and, and adapted things. 681 00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:59,960 And then additionally, there's there's a lot of brains going at 682 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,560 horn math now. Really. 683 00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:07,960 Yeah, because I mean horns were developed, you know, a lot in 684 00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:13,520 some cases with with the math of the day back in the in on the 685 00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:17,160 40s or whatnot and files and Bondo. 686 00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:19,560 Yeah. OK. 687 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,920 And some of them were made just like just by somebody's hunches. 688 00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:29,960 But we're, you know, there's, there's really big powerful math 689 00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:34,840 models now that can, that can see what's going on in a horn 690 00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:37,000 over its range. You know, one of the things 691 00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:40,040 that's difficult about audio, that's, that's a good way to 692 00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:45,440 contrast to lighting. Lighting, to use our terms, the 693 00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:47,880 whole spectrum of lighting is less than an octave. 694 00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:51,160 OK. And so you don't need a totally 695 00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:56,520 different lamp to, to, to, to do The Color Purple than red at 696 00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:57,880 your opposite sides of the spectrum. 697 00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:02,200 Whereas we do, because, you know, from 30 Hertz to 18 698 00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:09,200 kilohertz is 600 to one range. And so, so to control, you know, 699 00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:13,560 30 Hertz, you need a rudder 6 * 600 times bigger than what it 700 00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:20,280 takes to control 18 kilohertz. And the thing about horns is, is 701 00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:24,960 that it's the classic Goldilocks thing. 702 00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:29,640 Some frequencies are too big, some are too small, and some are 703 00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:33,440 just right and OK. If they're too big, the horn 704 00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:35,560 doesn't control them, the rudder doesn't work. 705 00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:39,000 If they're too small, they bounce side to side inside the 706 00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,480 horn and get stray pass and ping off the wrong way. 707 00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,920 If they're just right, they fit in there and they follow the 708 00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:46,600 shape of the horn. So and. 709 00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:49,360 So what are the big advancements being made in horns then? 710 00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:52,480 Is it the materials or is it just actually the shape, the 711 00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:54,320 design? It's mostly shaping. 712 00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:58,840 Yeah, yeah, interesting, huh. I wouldn't have thought that I 713 00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:01,560 would have thought there's always more technology going 714 00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:05,160 into bass, you know, like I, I was a bass player growing up, by 715 00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:08,480 the way. So, so yeah, that's, that's 716 00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:11,960 really interesting. So you know, they are they are 717 00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:16,200 you also now getting to a point where sound system design is 718 00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:19,800 starting to focus a little bit on, I wouldn't say efficiency 719 00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:22,800 because you're always focused on efficiency, but like being able 720 00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:28,320 to deliver the SPLS with less power, with less actual 721 00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:32,840 electricity, less weight, so lower transport costs and all of 722 00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:34,360 those things. Is that all happening as? 723 00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:38,240 Well, that is huge, yeah, absolutely, hugely important 724 00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:41,240 when you look at touring packages. 725 00:44:41,240 --> 00:44:44,880 Now, when you go into competition on touring packages, 726 00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:51,160 it's absolutely factored in what your, what your weight is, how, 727 00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:54,320 how, how many trucks does it take another half a truck? 728 00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:57,880 Boom, you're out. If it takes more electricity, 729 00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:02,920 then you've got to have more generator power, these kind of 730 00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:05,160 things. Oh, these are hugely important 731 00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:11,280 factors, Yeah. So we, we work everything we can 732 00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:14,680 to shave Oz off of these products. 733 00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:16,160 Yes. See, we're starting to see that 734 00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:19,040 in the lighting world and in video as well, you know, where 735 00:45:19,240 --> 00:45:22,360 you're looking at more of the infrastructure stuff, not just 736 00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:25,600 hay, bigger, louder, brighter, whatever. 737 00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:28,800 You're starting to look at the fact that, hey, you know, these 738 00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:32,600 tours in the world is looking to, you know, not necessarily 739 00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:36,720 become greener, but certainly yes, if we can cut less 740 00:45:36,720 --> 00:45:41,520 electricity, less weight, smaller trucks, whatever it is 741 00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:46,000 less trucks and it seems to be. But what about the other one is 742 00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:49,280 whether like our our systems, I don't even know. 743 00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:52,280 This is is a line array system IP rated. 744 00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:54,680 Yes. Oh, they are. 745 00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:58,520 Absolutely. So they can, it's IP65 or 746 00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:01,760 something. I'm not good with those numbers, 747 00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:07,320 but, but the they can be that that depends on, well, different 748 00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:11,360 companies have different levels of, of weather, weather ability. 749 00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:16,600 But but yes, that is a that is an important factor. 750 00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:21,120 You can't have your show stopped because of rain. 751 00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:24,320 Yeah, yeah, of course. And you can't put big plastic 752 00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:27,320 bags over your your line arrays either. 753 00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:33,560 The age of the age of the show goes behind Viz Queen is yeah. 754 00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:39,160 So for you, for a a engineer, designer, all of the things that 755 00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:44,080 you do, how complicated was that switch between, you know, what 756 00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:48,080 do we call it point source versus line array or stacks 757 00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:49,680 versus line array or whatever, but. 758 00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:54,160 It's, it's, it's point source versus line array and that and 759 00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:57,960 and it's worth, it's worth taking a moment to geek out and 760 00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:00,280 explain what what the difference is. 761 00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:02,000 Yeah, please. Please, because I don't know 762 00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:07,400 that I've ever heard it. So if you, if you think about a, 763 00:47:07,720 --> 00:47:11,360 what we call a point source speaker, it has a, a constant 764 00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:13,800 beam with you give it, you say it's a 90° speaker. 765 00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:21,080 So you, you say that at 10K, at 4K, at 2K, at 1K it's it's 90° 766 00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:25,240 or as close to that as possible. So if you want to partner it 767 00:47:25,240 --> 00:47:28,840 with another speaker, you're going to, you're going to have 768 00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:32,040 this one cover this 90 and another one cover that 90. 769 00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:35,920 Or if it's 90 by 40, you might have another speaker under it 770 00:47:36,240 --> 00:47:40,040 that covers the next part. And you think about it like 771 00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:47,960 extensions of the shape and you build it like blocks a a line 772 00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:52,320 array in its horizontal might was exactly like that. 773 00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:55,200 It might be 90°, it might be 60, it might be 110. 774 00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:58,800 It's it's also constant cute, but in it's vertical, that's 775 00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:01,360 where the difference is. In the vertical, the coverage 776 00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:05,400 angle is yes. Right, right, because you're 777 00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:08,360 curving it. No, it's not that it's curving, 778 00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:12,120 it's that it it changes purposefully with frequency. 779 00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:17,040 Explain that. I will explain that at the at 780 00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:21,400 the at the highest frequency, it's razor razor narrow. 781 00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:25,520 OK. OK, so like let's say it's 5°. 782 00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:31,360 OK. But an octave lower it's 10° and 783 00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:35,120 an octave lower it's 20° and it keeps, keeps widening. 784 00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:39,440 It's what we call proportional QQ is a, is a term for, for 785 00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:45,480 width of, of the, of the beam. OK, so as you, as you, as you go 786 00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:47,800 down in frequency, it gets wider. 787 00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:50,280 And so now here's what you're going to get. 788 00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:55,760 You look at that set of 12 speakers and they have a small 789 00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:59,160 angle of maybe 5°. Let's just put them all at 5°. 790 00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:06,200 That means that you have 5 * 1260° of 10 kilohertz provided 791 00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:08,800 by you. Do the first part, then I hand 792 00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:11,120 it off to the second and each one shares. 793 00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:15,720 Interesting. But by an octave lower. 794 00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:21,720 It's a 10° speaker, but it still has an angle of five, so it's 795 00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:25,920 overlapping by half of its pattern. 796 00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:28,680 Yeah. So the so the so I'm going to 797 00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:33,320 hear one box at 10K and I'm going to hear two boxes at 4K, 798 00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:36,280 and I'm going to hear four boxes at 2K. 799 00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:39,000 And on it goes. By the time you reach 250 Hertz, 800 00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:43,520 it's already, you know, 100 or 200° wide. 801 00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:47,640 I'm hearing a community project. OK. 802 00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:49,080 Interesting. So. 803 00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:54,120 So the low end starts off super directional and becomes 804 00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:58,920 controlled by the community because the more speakers you 805 00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:03,280 add, the narrower it gets in the low end. 806 00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:06,000 Why? Which is a counterintuitive 807 00:50:06,240 --> 00:50:09,080 because they overlap and they add in phase. 808 00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:11,120 Think of it like like a. Pyramid. 809 00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:13,120 OK, OK. Got it. 810 00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:14,320 Yeah, OK. So. 811 00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:18,240 So any time that that that 2 audio signals are overlapping, 812 00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:22,360 if they're equal in level, their timing, which is the phase 813 00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:25,720 decides where the sound goes. And that goes back to the thing 814 00:50:25,720 --> 00:50:27,840 I said. Sound can steer itself in 815 00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:30,640 strange places. That's how it steers it because 816 00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:34,280 the phase will steer it. But whereas at up in there at 817 00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:39,320 the very high end, you're saying I'm going to fire my beam super 818 00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:43,960 tight so that the if the top box were to turn off, the people at 819 00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:46,400 the bottom would never know it. Yeah. 820 00:50:47,720 --> 00:50:50,520 And the only way they would know if they heard anything would be 821 00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:53,800 a slight change in the low frequencies because one out of 822 00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:58,400 12 boxes stopped transmitting in the low end. 823 00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:01,120 But they would they never knew about the high end. 824 00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:03,880 And likewise, people at the bottom don't know anything about 825 00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:07,720 the top boxes. But it's a community effort that 826 00:51:07,720 --> 00:51:11,120 then goes away as you rise in frequency to individual. 827 00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:15,600 So what we do now is we we shape the display angles in that thing 828 00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:19,280 to shape the highest frequencies, to precisely sculpt 829 00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:21,960 them to where they need to go. Yeah. 830 00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:28,000 And then the low frequencies go as a big project. 831 00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:32,920 And and every box basically has mid high and then the the Subs 832 00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:35,160 obviously are are in a separate box. 833 00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:40,360 And so it's interesting. I never, I never realized that 834 00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:44,000 that's how that worked. And so when you're when you're 835 00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:48,080 changing the curvature of an array, is that based on the size 836 00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:51,320 of the room, the coverage, basically the how far the 837 00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:56,200 speaker needs to fire sound out and then based on that target 838 00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:58,120 point, that's where you're setting your angles? 839 00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:01,240 Yes, it's a, it's a, it's a thing. 840 00:52:01,240 --> 00:52:06,160 I call the the range ratio, the ratio between the farthest that 841 00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:08,920 CC you have to cover and the nearest C. 842 00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:14,800 So let's say that it's 200 feet to the farthest seats and it's 843 00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:20,320 50 feet to the nearest seats. That's a four to one ratio. 844 00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:23,400 That's translates in audio to 12 DB. 845 00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:29,320 So I need to do 12 DB of shaping or 4 to one my my I need 4 boxes 846 00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:33,480 to cover up there where one box covers down there. 847 00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:35,720 Right. Interesting. 848 00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:38,080 Yeah. And so does that become more 849 00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:41,480 complicated or less complicated in a larger space like a 850 00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:45,440 stadium? It it becomes the the 851 00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:49,800 complication level is, is about if there's wrinkles in the shape 852 00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:55,920 a state, a stadium could have a nice easy, steady drop easy 853 00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:58,960 money, or it could OK, right, right, right, right. 854 00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:01,920 And now you're in trouble. Yeah, I mean, some of those 855 00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:05,560 examples came from, I remember the what were they that 856 00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:11,040 obnoxious Spice Girls when the Spice Girls did the the football 857 00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:14,120 stadium tour? And I remember after the first 858 00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:17,480 show, the sound company was just slaughtered in the press, like 859 00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:20,240 the sound, we could hardly even hear the band. 860 00:53:20,240 --> 00:53:23,680 And the band complained and everyone complained and, and, 861 00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:27,920 but I mean, these football places were not made for music. 862 00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:32,520 They were made to to basically amplify the crowd screaming at 863 00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:39,440 the, you know, away team. So it just seemed to be a mess, 864 00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:42,040 like a bad place to try and put a sound system. 865 00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:45,920 But it's a it's a bad place. But now you're going back to 866 00:53:46,240 --> 00:53:49,480 Shea Stadium and The Beatles. Yeah, yeah. 867 00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:52,280 That's true. They're they're going to book 868 00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:55,040 those stadiums. That's that's what, that's the 869 00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:57,400 economic model that we live in. So you have to. 870 00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:01,000 You have to make it work. And, and there's really no 871 00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:05,480 excuse for production not to be able to cover the full room 872 00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:10,400 because the technology is there. That all those seats I saw, I 873 00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:14,200 saw the pictures of the the people and they're, you know, 874 00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:18,440 they were, they had seats that were had good visibility to the 875 00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:21,120 stage. And yeah, no, nobody was giving 876 00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:23,320 them the sound. So, yeah, so. 877 00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:26,480 You're thinking that was like operator error, basically or or 878 00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:29,200 system design error, or somewhere along the line they 879 00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:31,440 just didn't get it right. I'm I'm. 880 00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:37,760 I can't say conclusively, but my suspicion is the the dreaded 2 881 00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:41,080 letters VE. Yeah, yeah, they cut costs. 882 00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:45,160 Yeah, engineering too. And it's like, OK, so, so they, 883 00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:49,080 they, you know, they, they sorted out on the, the side, 884 00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:52,760 upper, upper side hang. And yes, that's those people 885 00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:55,320 paid their money. I, as I often say, there's, 886 00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:59,160 there's no cheap seats anymore. There's expensive seats and 887 00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:03,280 there's extortion seats and there's sell the House seats. 888 00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:05,840 Right, right. Yeah, that's great. 889 00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:10,360 Yeah, Well, I mean, now like, I don't know it, it's just so 890 00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:14,560 crazy right now, all of it. But so I was at, I know that 891 00:55:14,720 --> 00:55:16,280 we're going to get to it at some point. 892 00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:18,000 So I'm going to mention Metallica now. 893 00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:24,080 So what has been your collaboration role, whatever you 894 00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:27,040 want to call it, with Metallica over the last however many 895 00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:31,680 years? Starting at the end of 2016, I 896 00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:35,760 became involved in Metallica when they began working with the 897 00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:42,440 the VLFC, which is a special subwoofer that goes below normal 898 00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:46,680 subwoofers down to 13 Hertz, which they added to their system 899 00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:53,120 because they wanted to have the feeling of pyro without the risk 900 00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:56,840 of pyro. Well, having just watched 901 00:55:56,840 --> 00:56:01,840 Metallica in, in Canada last summer in that stadium show that 902 00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:05,880 they're doing, I can tell you, you ain't wrong. 903 00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:08,680 Like I, I was like, what is that? 904 00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:11,960 And I just happened to be standing probably 20 feet in 905 00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:14,960 front of the, in front of the Subs or whatever, away from the 906 00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:18,640 Subs. And yeah, it was, it was your 907 00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:22,960 stomach was moving. You know, that's that's base 908 00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:27,960 that I hadn't heard in a while. Yeah, and the, the this tour 909 00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:32,400 uses the, you know, originally they just use it for effects. 910 00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:37,480 It only worked, you know, one minute a day, but now it works 911 00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:39,920 the full show. And it's really very musical and 912 00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:42,840 really wonderful because what it does for the kick drum, for 913 00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:47,320 example, is it it, it puts, it gets to kick drum, the energy 914 00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:49,880 that makes it actually like a real kick drum. 915 00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:52,040 It's a real kick drum does go down there. 916 00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:55,960 We're just used to a world that starts at 30 Hertz, but it's 917 00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:57,920 there in the original source material. 918 00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:00,640 Can you hear 18 Hertz or you can just feel it? 919 00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:02,720 Absolutely you can hear it. OK. 920 00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:06,240 And what, what a proof of this. And this was a classic John 921 00:57:06,240 --> 00:57:09,240 Myers. I, I, I came to the, you know, 922 00:57:09,240 --> 00:57:12,480 like, OK, it's, you know, seems like we can hear down to 13 923 00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:14,320 years. Someone was able to tell when 924 00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:17,000 the pitch was wrong. He says, well, hello, Bach had 925 00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:20,560 a, a pipe organ that had a 16 Hertz pipe. 926 00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:23,000 It's like. Really interesting I. 927 00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:25,600 Was like, OK, I didn't know that piece of history. 928 00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:27,000 Now I. Do me neither, yeah. 929 00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:31,680 So yes is the answer. Yeah, because we had an effect 930 00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:39,560 once where we, he, the the assistant engineer, wellied up a 931 00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:48,360 A tone for the finish of a song and and he just put a tone in as 932 00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:50,160 the guitars were finishing the song. 933 00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:52,480 And he was and it was, it was sour. 934 00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:56,080 And Rob Koenig pointed out, he says, you know, like I think 935 00:57:56,080 --> 00:57:58,360 that you've got the wrong note there. 936 00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:01,240 And the argument begins like, is there a note? 937 00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:03,520 It's just 13 Hertz that nobody can hear the note there. 938 00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:07,400 It's like, so then I asked what was the, what chord were the 939 00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:12,760 guitars playing, which started a discussion, is D sharp or E 940 00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:14,200 flat? And somebody was convinced 941 00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:16,360 there's a difference. Me. 942 00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:18,760 Yeah. But we we found and we tuned the 943 00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:24,280 oscillator just changed it by 1 Hertz and now boom it was in 944 00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:26,000 tune. So interesting you can. 945 00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:27,960 Hear that? Amazing. 946 00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:31,000 Well, it's amazing that a drummer would pick it up because 947 00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:33,080 I, I believe Rob's a drummer if I remember. 948 00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:36,360 Correctly, he's a He's a smart guy, he's a smart guy. 949 00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:39,520 Rob's a smart dude. And as I often say, everybody's 950 00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:41,560 got two jobs. There's and sound. 951 00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:45,800 Nah, that's kind of true, ain't it? 952 00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:49,440 Yeah, that's funny. So when you started, so you said 953 00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:52,520 2016, So what really was your role? 954 00:58:52,520 --> 00:58:55,280 You were just like a representative of of Meyer and 955 00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:59,640 helping them change their. Well, I'm, I'm the applications 956 00:58:59,640 --> 00:59:03,360 guy. And so then, then they asked me 957 00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:10,360 to come to come to Copenhagen where they were starting a tour 958 00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:13,760 and to design the the system for that. 959 00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:18,680 And I did and, and Dan gave his vision to me. 960 00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:20,640 He says. I want, you know, I want every 961 00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:22,920 person to have a near field experience. 962 00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:27,240 Dan Brown. Dan Brown Yes, and I really 963 00:59:27,240 --> 00:59:30,080 wants everybody to be listening to a pair of AMI studio 964 00:59:30,080 --> 00:59:32,800 monitors. You know, that's the experience 965 00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:35,040 I want. And I was like, OK, and I 966 00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:39,440 incrementally pushed them in that direction was more hangs, 967 00:59:39,600 --> 00:59:44,480 but we we brought speakers out closer to the people cover the 968 00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:47,920 cover the upper areas with sisters speakers that were 969 00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:53,600 closer in to them and brought some intimacy to the things. 970 00:59:54,040 --> 00:59:57,560 And people don't think that you should separate out systems if 971 00:59:57,560 --> 01:00:01,200 you're doing a metal band. And maybe that was true in the 972 01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:03,760 olden days, but now we have the technology. 973 01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:07,240 To you mean like delay towers and stuff like that or? 974 01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:11,360 Or what what what we call a, what we call a, a distributed 975 01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:14,440 system. OK, OK, so that's a, you know, 976 01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:17,920 you think of Rock'n'roll and you think of everything compact and 977 01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:20,320 all super tight together. And the last thing you think 978 01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:25,000 about it is all exploded out. And well, it turns out that with 979 01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:27,920 the technology that we have now, because we have such good 980 01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:33,440 controlled systems that we can explode the systems and now give 981 01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:34,960 people that near field experience. 982 01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:38,600 And if you bring up there's a picture of the of the world 983 01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:44,640 wired, a world wired world wired tour, which is almost impossible 984 01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:46,000 to say. Yes, that's fine. 985 01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:49,040 And you'll see a picture of what evolved. 986 01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:52,000 There it is. Yeah, that's it right there. 987 01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:57,320 I just got lucky. Yeah, so this is the next thing 988 01:00:57,320 --> 01:01:02,200 that happened was this tour. Well, actually we did a we did a 989 01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:06,080 standard stadium tour, but then instead of 2017. 990 01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:11,520 But this is the, this was a really big innovation because 991 01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:15,880 the, the area where you normally want to put PA was completely 992 01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:20,360 occupied by those lights, which are these cubes of video with 993 01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:23,120 lights inside of them. And they are on hoist so that 994 01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:26,040 they can come up and down. So they're a dynamic load. 995 01:01:26,040 --> 01:01:30,040 So they were really, we had to bring the PA out. 996 01:01:30,080 --> 01:01:33,720 And you can see all that, all the PA that you see there is 997 01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:38,120 over the audience. Jesus, if if nothing, if it 998 01:01:38,120 --> 01:01:40,640 fell, not one speaker would hurt the band. 999 01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:42,400 It would all fall on the audience. 1000 01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:47,360 And you can see subwoofers at the top of the picture, like a 1001 01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:51,200 like a, like a dancing set of three subwoofers coming at you. 1002 01:01:51,560 --> 01:01:55,080 That's a steered subwoofer array to bring the sound down, even 1003 01:01:55,080 --> 01:01:57,320 though it's over the audience, you have to clear down. 1004 01:01:57,320 --> 01:01:58,240 Yeah, right. Up here, yeah. 1005 01:01:58,720 --> 01:02:00,520 No, yeah, to the right. There. 1006 01:02:00,520 --> 01:02:03,800 My, my, my, my mouth's just split into. 1007 01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:06,520 That's pretty wild. I have two cursors on my side 1008 01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:08,800 so. Oh, funny, so you're saying. 1009 01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:11,920 So that's what's covering. That's the subwoofers. 1010 01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:15,520 Now go straight down from there and you'll see there's a little 1011 01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:17,360 array. It's kind of hidden here. 1012 01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:19,360 That's it. So that's what I call a belly 1013 01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:22,040 flop array. That array is facing almost 1014 01:02:22,040 --> 01:02:27,720 straight down, and that covers to the people, to the crash 1015 01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:30,640 barrier. And then they intersect with the 1016 01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:35,040 bottom of the curved arrays that you see spinning out of that 1017 01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:36,160 picture. Yeah. 1018 01:02:37,360 --> 01:02:39,760 Wow. And so was this the first time 1019 01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:41,760 that they used Meijer or had they already been a Meijer 1020 01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:44,920 customer before that? They had been a Meijer customer 1021 01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:52,000 for long, long before that. They for for a long time they've 1022 01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:56,720 been a great customer for us and we we actually innovative some 1023 01:02:56,720 --> 01:03:05,280 stage monitors just for them and they yeah, so we've had a long 1024 01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:07,320 and good relationship. I think there's one more picture 1025 01:03:07,320 --> 01:03:09,240 of this on the next slide. There you go. 1026 01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:12,360 Now you can see and now you can see the belly flop array and the 1027 01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:15,800 subwoofers that with that stagger that steered them down. 1028 01:03:15,800 --> 01:03:18,560 Yeah, here, yeah. There's another one to your to 1029 01:03:18,560 --> 01:03:21,280 the left on your picture you can see it how I would face it 1030 01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:22,720 straight. Down there, yeah. 1031 01:03:23,000 --> 01:03:29,400 OK, so it goes together like, like a really amazing little 1032 01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:36,360 puzzle of pieces, but everything can be timed and put together in 1033 01:03:36,360 --> 01:03:38,440 pretty much a similar way each night. 1034 01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:41,360 And this is using, of course, the technology that I showed you 1035 01:03:41,360 --> 01:03:44,080 in that ancient picture of me at the Grateful Dead show. 1036 01:03:44,080 --> 01:03:46,920 Yeah. With my with the Hewlett 1037 01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:50,240 Packard. So you're basically putting 1038 01:03:50,240 --> 01:03:53,080 something into A and you know, again, I'm going to show how 1039 01:03:53,080 --> 01:03:55,240 dumb I really am. But you're putting, you're 1040 01:03:55,240 --> 01:03:58,680 putting some information into a piece of software that says, 1041 01:03:58,680 --> 01:04:00,520 here's how many people are going to be in the room. 1042 01:04:00,520 --> 01:04:02,160 Here's roughly where they're going to be. 1043 01:04:03,040 --> 01:04:07,320 What's the best position to to play speakers in this strange 1044 01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:08,560 shape? Is what it came up with. 1045 01:04:10,080 --> 01:04:15,440 Well, what we have modeling that, that you put in the shape 1046 01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:19,120 of the room and the shape of the stage and the permissible, you 1047 01:04:19,120 --> 01:04:22,280 put speakers at the locations within the range that you've 1048 01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:26,160 been given as permissible, which was outside of that perimeter of 1049 01:04:26,160 --> 01:04:29,120 those cubes. And then you have to start 1050 01:04:29,120 --> 01:04:31,600 working from there. And then you, you know, then we 1051 01:04:31,600 --> 01:04:35,880 then we get into how much weight is on these points near the 1052 01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:37,960 lighting and all those kind of contingencies. 1053 01:04:38,240 --> 01:04:41,680 But basically from a sound point of view, I'm I'm going to work 1054 01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:43,560 on a thing that looks like a weather map. 1055 01:04:44,080 --> 01:04:49,480 It's gonna, I'm gonna fire down and and light up a heat map to 1056 01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:52,240 show you where the coverage is. Coverage, Yeah. 1057 01:04:52,720 --> 01:04:54,520 Yeah, that makes sense. I think you had a picture of 1058 01:04:54,520 --> 01:04:57,400 that somewhere. Yeah, as I recall. 1059 01:04:58,360 --> 01:05:00,240 Now there you can go back. Go back and you'll see. 1060 01:05:00,240 --> 01:05:03,480 First we'll talk to this. Now you can see the the cubes in 1061 01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:06,240 action. Yeah, I remember this show. 1062 01:05:06,240 --> 01:05:09,640 Yeah, this was great. This is very cool. 1063 01:05:10,200 --> 01:05:15,200 And then the next picture is Big Mick, big Mick Hughes, the mixer 1064 01:05:15,600 --> 01:05:19,440 who's now retired but makes them for 35 plus years. 1065 01:05:19,600 --> 01:05:24,880 Great guy, Super super super wonderful and just a just a real 1066 01:05:24,880 --> 01:05:27,280 wizard. So you were a couple years 1067 01:05:27,280 --> 01:05:29,560 younger then? Yes. 1068 01:05:30,240 --> 01:05:32,080 Yeah, but still the colored glasses. 1069 01:05:32,120 --> 01:05:33,720 Has this been your trademark for a while? 1070 01:05:33,760 --> 01:05:35,800 Colored glasses, yeah. Yes, yes. 1071 01:05:36,080 --> 01:05:39,560 Ever since I tried and tried every different version of 1072 01:05:39,560 --> 01:05:43,280 contacts and once the contacts were not a thing I said I'm 1073 01:05:43,280 --> 01:05:45,920 going to go full on and we're going to have fun with glasses. 1074 01:05:46,040 --> 01:05:48,920 I'm OK, I'll do it, but I'm not being normal. 1075 01:05:49,640 --> 01:05:50,520 Exactly I. Get it? 1076 01:05:50,520 --> 01:05:52,160 Yeah, perfect. Good for you. 1077 01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:55,320 Cool. Is there more that we need to 1078 01:05:55,320 --> 01:05:57,120 see here or do you? Want to just keep going? 1079 01:05:57,120 --> 01:05:58,840 On the pictures. Or yeah, let's just keep going 1080 01:05:58,840 --> 01:05:59,960 on the pictures. Sure. 1081 01:06:01,720 --> 01:06:04,920 I think we're right now this is really going back to a different 1082 01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:08,280 time now. This is 2001. 1083 01:06:09,400 --> 01:06:13,080 This is Tokyo Disney Sea. And I don't just is this a 1084 01:06:13,320 --> 01:06:17,400 Disney theme park. That way I did the sound design 1085 01:06:17,400 --> 01:06:22,720 for this and you're seeing a system that would come out out 1086 01:06:22,720 --> 01:06:29,360 of that, out of that bunker, do it show and then go go back into 1087 01:06:29,360 --> 01:06:31,720 the bunker. So it just does a, it does a 1088 01:06:31,720 --> 01:06:36,160 show in the daytime and another show in the night time around 1089 01:06:36,160 --> 01:06:40,320 this on the perimeter of this lagoon that does a, you know, a 1090 01:06:40,320 --> 01:06:41,760 boat show. Yeah. 1091 01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:44,840 And. And when it goes away and 1092 01:06:44,840 --> 01:06:48,320 doesn't impact sight lines and all of that kind of stuff like? 1093 01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:49,040 A big. Ugly. 1094 01:06:49,080 --> 01:06:51,400 A big ugly speaker tower that doesn't. 1095 01:06:51,600 --> 01:06:54,360 It takes away from the look of the scene, I guess, that you're 1096 01:06:54,360 --> 01:06:56,160 meant to be in. Exactly. 1097 01:06:56,400 --> 01:06:58,240 Yeah. And it, and at night it, it 1098 01:06:58,240 --> 01:07:00,040 sneaks up. You don't even know it's, you 1099 01:07:00,040 --> 01:07:02,840 know, it's already gotten dark and it sneaks up and then all of 1100 01:07:02,840 --> 01:07:06,680 a sudden it turns on and it's got lighting on it and sound and 1101 01:07:06,680 --> 01:07:10,080 it's quite spectacular. And the volcano erupts and all 1102 01:07:10,080 --> 01:07:11,880 sorts of. Yeah, that's very cool. 1103 01:07:12,040 --> 01:07:14,560 That's very cool. And is this the same thing or? 1104 01:07:14,600 --> 01:07:17,400 That's the that's the lagoon where the where the show. 1105 01:07:17,640 --> 01:07:20,520 And these are some of the floats and some of the other parts of 1106 01:07:20,520 --> 01:07:22,680 it. But we basically had 44 1107 01:07:22,680 --> 01:07:25,640 different locations around this lagoon. 1108 01:07:25,640 --> 01:07:29,720 It's the it's the closing show. And so you, you know, everybody 1109 01:07:29,720 --> 01:07:33,360 gathers around and, and that's your big event. 1110 01:07:33,480 --> 01:07:37,680 Yeah, this is. We're all over the place here. 1111 01:07:38,080 --> 01:07:41,840 Yeah, this is Tony Meola. He's the sound designer of 1112 01:07:42,360 --> 01:07:48,520 Wicked and he also did many, many things, Les Miserables and 1113 01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:52,800 countless, countless musicals. He's just one of the greats. 1114 01:07:52,800 --> 01:07:56,560 He would have 5 Tony Awards except for he all of his work 1115 01:07:56,560 --> 01:08:00,640 was in the era before they gave Tony Awards for sound. 1116 01:08:02,680 --> 01:08:04,200 Interesting. Yeah. 1117 01:08:05,680 --> 01:08:10,800 And this is Outside Lands. This is a, a festival in Golden 1118 01:08:10,800 --> 01:08:19,279 Gate Park in, in San Francisco. It's it's it's AI got involved 1119 01:08:19,279 --> 01:08:25,359 with this because we, we needed to keep the sound levels down in 1120 01:08:25,359 --> 01:08:30,399 the neighborhoods. So I evaluated the the situation 1121 01:08:30,399 --> 01:08:37,080 there and redesigned the system to, to keep the sound on the on 1122 01:08:37,080 --> 01:08:40,439 the people and not into the not into Yelp. 1123 01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:44,279 Of course that cost money. They had to get more delay 1124 01:08:44,279 --> 01:08:46,880 towers, but you know, that's what you had to do. 1125 01:08:46,880 --> 01:08:49,160 You have to. You have to bring the sound 1126 01:08:49,160 --> 01:08:55,399 further and aim the sound down. Yeah, that's that basically the 1127 01:08:55,920 --> 01:09:00,920 the distributed sound sort of philosophy, I guess, right. 1128 01:09:00,920 --> 01:09:05,439 Yes, yes, we brought more. More speakers, less SPL per 1129 01:09:05,439 --> 01:09:08,840 speaker basically. Exactly, we brought the front of 1130 01:09:08,840 --> 01:09:14,600 house was moved in closer so that they could get happiness at 1131 01:09:14,600 --> 01:09:19,200 a closer distance and they we brought in instead of one delay 1132 01:09:19,200 --> 01:09:24,920 tower, we we made it into two sets of two delay towers. 1133 01:09:25,240 --> 01:09:28,439 So it was a. Big change, but that gave us the 1134 01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:32,479 ability to really bring the sound under control. 1135 01:09:32,920 --> 01:09:38,720 OK, cool. This is back, going back to oh, 1136 01:09:38,720 --> 01:09:43,520 this is the new Metallica tour, the the M72 tour, the one you 1137 01:09:43,520 --> 01:09:46,680 saw in Edmonton and this is one of my heat maps. 1138 01:09:46,680 --> 01:09:53,080 I've got the, this happens to be there, the Ajax Arena in 1139 01:09:53,720 --> 01:09:57,720 Amsterdam where the you can see it on Ted Lasso if you watch 1140 01:09:57,720 --> 01:10:01,880 that TV show. The the blue space there is 1141 01:10:02,760 --> 01:10:06,600 there's a, there's a stage is a circle and then there's a little 1142 01:10:06,600 --> 01:10:09,360 tiny spot in the center called the snake Pit where there's 1143 01:10:09,360 --> 01:10:11,440 audience. I don't have the snake pit 1144 01:10:11,440 --> 01:10:13,760 speakers turned on in this simulation. 1145 01:10:14,160 --> 01:10:17,080 Yeah. But you can see every place else 1146 01:10:17,080 --> 01:10:18,280 is covered. How is it covered? 1147 01:10:18,280 --> 01:10:22,200 There are left and right hangs on each of those eight towers 1148 01:10:22,840 --> 01:10:27,920 and there is a web of speakers with another inter set of eight 1149 01:10:28,040 --> 01:10:31,040 hanging over the stage that cover the area inside of the 1150 01:10:31,040 --> 01:10:33,480 tower. So it's basically speakers going 1151 01:10:33,680 --> 01:10:37,600 backwards into the snake pit, going forwards under the towers, 1152 01:10:37,600 --> 01:10:39,920 and then the towers take it on from there. 1153 01:10:40,320 --> 01:10:46,680 Yeah, yeah, that's and then as I recall, this is like all Subs, 1154 01:10:46,680 --> 01:10:49,720 isn't it pretty? Much Well, there's Subs. 1155 01:10:49,800 --> 01:10:54,720 Originally the Subs were up on the towers but we had a 1156 01:10:54,720 --> 01:10:59,320 challenge and that is that the the video panels could not 1157 01:10:59,320 --> 01:11:02,640 sustain life with Subs in the. Name right? 1158 01:11:02,640 --> 01:11:05,040 I remember hearing about that. I remember hearing that you were 1159 01:11:05,040 --> 01:11:08,920 blowing out video panels with the with the sound coming out of 1160 01:11:08,920 --> 01:11:13,160 those Subs. Yes, and so the Subs who who the 1161 01:11:13,160 --> 01:11:15,040 video fails, so who gets grounded? 1162 01:11:17,520 --> 01:11:20,320 Yeah, it's funny. Well, and you know, from what I 1163 01:11:20,320 --> 01:11:25,640 understand anyways, is the panels just maybe didn't have 1164 01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:28,080 the right wind rating or something like they were too, 1165 01:11:28,440 --> 01:11:32,880 they went for a very high resolution like 1.9mm pitch on 1166 01:11:32,880 --> 01:11:35,440 the panels so that LE DS are so close together. 1167 01:11:35,680 --> 01:11:37,960 But then the problem is the sound can't go through it, so it 1168 01:11:37,960 --> 01:11:42,360 just hammers on the panel and was causing them to fall apart. 1169 01:11:43,800 --> 01:11:46,400 So yeah, I heard, I heard some stories about that. 1170 01:11:49,160 --> 01:11:54,080 Suffice to say, we hope someday that they can resolve it. 1171 01:11:54,400 --> 01:11:59,160 We our understanding is it's a connector issue, but yeah. 1172 01:11:59,840 --> 01:12:03,120 I, I had heard that it was just a, a resolution issue on the 1173 01:12:03,120 --> 01:12:06,840 panels cause the LE DS are so close to, you know, it's like, I 1174 01:12:06,840 --> 01:12:10,720 mean a mesh basically. And if you have the mesh with 1175 01:12:10,800 --> 01:12:13,680 the spaces, bigger wind can blow through it without the mesh 1176 01:12:13,680 --> 01:12:16,560 moving like this. But if the spaces are smaller in 1177 01:12:16,560 --> 01:12:19,240 the mesh, the, the wind actually moves it and you'll tear the 1178 01:12:19,240 --> 01:12:21,120 mesh or whatever. And that's sort of what was 1179 01:12:21,120 --> 01:12:24,080 happening with the panels. That's the story I heard from. 1180 01:12:24,440 --> 01:12:27,360 I don't remember if it was one of the video techs out there or 1181 01:12:27,360 --> 01:12:30,800 something, but somebody had told me that story. 1182 01:12:31,680 --> 01:12:35,320 So what are we looking at now? So this is a a plot from the 1183 01:12:35,320 --> 01:12:38,600 smart Analyzer, which is of course the descendant of the 1184 01:12:38,680 --> 01:12:41,360 analyzer shown in that ancient history picture, right? 1185 01:12:42,120 --> 01:12:45,640 And you can see the little blue line that the bottom is the 1186 01:12:45,640 --> 01:12:48,680 frequency response. And you can see energy all the 1187 01:12:48,680 --> 01:12:51,160 way down to 16 Hertz. You see it there if you. 1188 01:12:51,160 --> 01:12:51,560 Look. Wow. 1189 01:12:51,600 --> 01:12:52,520 Yeah. OK. 1190 01:12:53,120 --> 01:12:57,920 And then the the color thing that you see up there is that's 1191 01:12:58,120 --> 01:13:03,600 a that's updating with time. Time zero time is at the bottom 1192 01:13:03,960 --> 01:13:07,160 and past history is at the top. So it's scrolling along as the 1193 01:13:07,160 --> 01:13:10,640 music changes. I see where where the energy is 1194 01:13:11,360 --> 01:13:13,760 in the system. That's cool. 1195 01:13:15,240 --> 01:13:16,760 And here's those towers. Yeah, so. 1196 01:13:16,760 --> 01:13:20,240 Here is here is a tower and you can see this was when we still 1197 01:13:20,240 --> 01:13:25,320 had Subs inside the tower and you can see they're behind the, 1198 01:13:25,440 --> 01:13:29,480 there's an opening between, you know, there's, there's two slots 1199 01:13:29,480 --> 01:13:32,400 for us to put sound in. And so there's openings there 1200 01:13:33,800 --> 01:13:38,240 and but the Subs being behind them was enough to vibrate them 1201 01:13:38,320 --> 01:13:41,920 and and damage them. They didn't like it. 1202 01:13:42,400 --> 01:13:43,760 Yep. And so you can see there's a 1203 01:13:43,760 --> 01:13:46,400 left and right hang. And this is this is the first 1204 01:13:46,400 --> 01:13:50,360 implementation of a complete stereo system in a stadium. 1205 01:13:51,080 --> 01:13:52,480 It's the first time that anybody's ever done it. 1206 01:13:52,480 --> 01:13:55,760 I mean, I know it's the age of immersive sound, but let's get 1207 01:13:55,880 --> 01:13:57,440 we get to all our immersive sound. 1208 01:13:57,600 --> 01:13:59,960 We never, nobody ever got stereo until. 1209 01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:01,160 Now, yeah, yeah. OK. 1210 01:14:01,560 --> 01:14:04,400 And this is stereo in the stadium, in the round, so it's a 1211 01:14:04,400 --> 01:14:06,280 remarkable thing. It is and. 1212 01:14:07,760 --> 01:14:12,160 I remember having a conversation with Greg Price, who is the 1213 01:14:12,280 --> 01:14:16,840 mixer for the for the band. And it's like, so you know, 1214 01:14:16,880 --> 01:14:18,560 what's the story on stereo? I said. 1215 01:14:18,560 --> 01:14:23,240 I said you must mix stereo because literally I have every 1216 01:14:23,240 --> 01:14:26,320 seat covered twice. Jesus. 1217 01:14:26,640 --> 01:14:32,120 So those James's guitar is in the left and Kirk's guitar is in 1218 01:14:32,120 --> 01:14:35,200 the right. The drums move all the way 1219 01:14:35,200 --> 01:14:39,320 across as he as he as he does a drum sequence. 1220 01:14:39,320 --> 01:14:41,880 So across the Toms, literally it's moving. 1221 01:14:41,880 --> 01:14:43,760 Now then somebody says, well, but wait a minute. 1222 01:14:44,120 --> 01:14:46,760 Well, for some people that left is on the right and some people 1223 01:14:46,760 --> 01:14:50,120 right is on the left said yeah, it's an in the round stage, 1224 01:14:50,560 --> 01:14:52,080 Yeah. And they're running around in 1225 01:14:52,080 --> 01:14:53,560 circles. Yes, they are. 1226 01:14:53,560 --> 01:14:56,400 Yeah, yeah. So on the the drum kit just pops 1227 01:14:56,400 --> 01:14:58,520 up in different areas. Exactly. 1228 01:14:58,520 --> 01:15:00,720 Yeah, it was really cool how they handled it. 1229 01:15:00,720 --> 01:15:04,440 I mean, I, I thought to be perfectly honest, it it was 1230 01:15:04,440 --> 01:15:07,400 probably one of the better in the round shows I've ever seen, 1231 01:15:07,440 --> 01:15:10,640 if if not the best as far as how it was handled from a sound 1232 01:15:10,640 --> 01:15:15,280 standpoint, video, lighting, the band, everything. 1233 01:15:15,280 --> 01:15:17,440 It was just really, really well done. 1234 01:15:17,440 --> 01:15:19,160 You. You didn't feel left out no 1235 01:15:19,160 --> 01:15:21,440 matter where you were seated. Well, that's what I love about 1236 01:15:21,440 --> 01:15:28,520 the show is that is that the people everybody has nobody is 1237 01:15:28,520 --> 01:15:31,080 is like so close. They have the mother of all 1238 01:15:31,080 --> 01:15:35,080 giant screens and other people are looking at an iPhone. 1239 01:15:35,080 --> 01:15:40,240 Screen, OK, yeah, yeah. OK, every everybody is is close 1240 01:15:40,240 --> 01:15:43,560 to some tower and nobody is in any tower. 1241 01:15:43,880 --> 01:15:47,920 So even the people up front are seeing the tower that's across 1242 01:15:47,920 --> 01:15:49,240 the stage. Right. 1243 01:15:49,600 --> 01:15:50,760 Right. So yeah, that makes sense. 1244 01:15:50,840 --> 01:15:55,320 So it's it's very even that way. And I, I always felt that if it 1245 01:15:55,320 --> 01:16:00,120 felt like an arena ale show in a stadium. 1246 01:16:00,560 --> 01:16:02,760 Yeah. You felt it was arena kind of 1247 01:16:02,760 --> 01:16:07,880 distances or even closer than that, and yet you look around 1248 01:16:07,880 --> 01:16:09,760 and suddenly realize I'm in a stadium. 1249 01:16:10,040 --> 01:16:14,120 Yeah, yeah, it was weirdly intimate for a stadium show. 1250 01:16:14,200 --> 01:16:19,360 And you know, granted, we could walk wherever we wanted, but you 1251 01:16:19,360 --> 01:16:22,280 know, it was, it was weirdly intimate. 1252 01:16:22,280 --> 01:16:26,760 And by the way, it was the first time, like I again, I don't tour 1253 01:16:26,760 --> 01:16:32,000 with bands or anything, but I had never seen the monitors done 1254 01:16:32,000 --> 01:16:35,120 under the seats in the stadium like they are, you know, with 1255 01:16:35,120 --> 01:16:38,040 the whole remote monitor set up. Oh yeah. 1256 01:16:38,480 --> 01:16:42,360 I had never seen that before. Like I for me, monitor consoles 1257 01:16:42,360 --> 01:16:47,080 were always on the side of the stage, you know, so that was 1258 01:16:47,080 --> 01:16:52,600 interesting too. You know how they and, and then 1259 01:16:52,600 --> 01:16:55,800 I guess every member of the band has a has a video camera on them 1260 01:16:55,800 --> 01:16:59,120 and they can, you know, you know, this up whatever my guitar 1261 01:16:59,120 --> 01:17:02,360 up and somebody's watching the video camera and responding to 1262 01:17:02,360 --> 01:17:05,440 it as if they were on the side of the stage, which obviously is 1263 01:17:05,480 --> 01:17:08,080 hard to do when you've got in the round like that. 1264 01:17:08,360 --> 01:17:11,000 Yeah, and it's more than just responding to that. 1265 01:17:11,160 --> 01:17:15,640 Literally, James, they're all wild variables and they can turn 1266 01:17:15,640 --> 01:17:18,600 up on any mic at any time. Yeah. 1267 01:17:18,600 --> 01:17:22,360 So you're so you're watching them and you're making sure that 1268 01:17:22,360 --> 01:17:27,360 to turn on that mic and for the monitor guys, they have to bring 1269 01:17:28,040 --> 01:17:32,880 James's monitor mix to the monitors that he just moved to. 1270 01:17:33,440 --> 01:17:36,920 And then he runs, he runs away and Kirk shows up there and they 1271 01:17:36,920 --> 01:17:39,680 got to bring Kirk's monitor mix to that location. 1272 01:17:39,960 --> 01:17:44,720 So it's it's, it's a real job. It's a these guys are like air 1273 01:17:44,720 --> 01:17:48,200 traffic controllers. It's that level of they're. 1274 01:17:48,240 --> 01:17:51,200 Using stage monitors not not in here they use. 1275 01:17:51,200 --> 01:17:53,720 Both. Interesting. 1276 01:17:54,240 --> 01:17:58,000 They have they have in ears, but they supplement with that and 1277 01:17:58,000 --> 01:18:03,320 they like to be able to still they to to keep they're they're 1278 01:18:03,320 --> 01:18:05,400 really into contact with the audience. 1279 01:18:05,400 --> 01:18:06,680 Yeah. They are. 1280 01:18:06,800 --> 01:18:10,920 They are fanatical about that. Which shows, you know, it's 1281 01:18:10,920 --> 01:18:12,680 shows. And it also probably has to 1282 01:18:12,680 --> 01:18:14,800 their longevity. You know, if you would have told 1283 01:18:14,800 --> 01:18:18,840 me in 1985 or whatever that Metallica, it'd still be gigging 1284 01:18:18,840 --> 01:18:21,560 in 2025, I would have thought you were an idiot. 1285 01:18:22,800 --> 01:18:26,000 But here we are. You know, there's there's a 1286 01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:28,840 bunch of those the stones. I mean, you know, again, talking 1287 01:18:28,840 --> 01:18:32,040 to Ethan about that yesterday, like they've been playing 60 1288 01:18:32,040 --> 01:18:35,680 years, you know, that's insane. That's like unbelievable. 1289 01:18:36,480 --> 01:18:38,240 And and they haven't stopped yet. 1290 01:18:38,240 --> 01:18:41,160 So that's pretty cool. Do I keep going here? 1291 01:18:41,560 --> 01:18:42,800 Yeah. Cool. 1292 01:18:45,200 --> 01:18:48,680 OK, this is this is Walt Disney Concert Hall. 1293 01:18:48,840 --> 01:18:52,840 And I brought put this in just to sort of just as a this is the 1294 01:18:52,840 --> 01:18:57,240 kind of challenges that we have in our lives of doing concerts 1295 01:18:57,720 --> 01:19:04,720 in rooms that had total blatant disregard for speakers. 1296 01:19:06,440 --> 01:19:10,520 Yeah, yeah. I mean, look at those surfaces 1297 01:19:10,840 --> 01:19:15,840 and how am I going to cover that seat right next to the iceberg 1298 01:19:17,960 --> 01:19:22,640 and not hit the iceberg? I mean, if you look at these, 1299 01:19:23,160 --> 01:19:26,720 OK, I mean, literally it's like these, these, these, these 1300 01:19:26,720 --> 01:19:31,920 things that are going to just do horrendously bad echoes for me 1301 01:19:32,200 --> 01:19:35,440 are parked right next to seats that I need to cover. 1302 01:19:36,000 --> 01:19:42,320 And I, I, I, I use this as an example of of of like, OK, you 1303 01:19:42,320 --> 01:19:48,120 know, this then lands in our lap for us to short, short out. 1304 01:19:48,880 --> 01:19:52,680 Yeah, solution for this and. So how bad can it get Example. 1305 01:19:52,840 --> 01:19:56,600 It's it's a real challenge and this was a really good case of, 1306 01:19:57,160 --> 01:19:59,880 of what I call architects gone wild. 1307 01:20:00,120 --> 01:20:03,360 Did you did you end up getting it to sound OK except for a few 1308 01:20:03,360 --> 01:20:05,160 seats probably. Yes. 1309 01:20:05,280 --> 01:20:07,360 Like there's some seats. You just can't do anything to 1310 01:20:07,360 --> 01:20:10,680 help in this place, obviously. Well, and you have to you have 1311 01:20:10,680 --> 01:20:13,680 to you know, then it becomes gets on the booking agents to 1312 01:20:13,680 --> 01:20:19,280 book artists that are reverberation friendly. 1313 01:20:19,720 --> 01:20:24,680 Yeah. OK, do not put in a, a hip hop, 1314 01:20:26,200 --> 01:20:29,080 a rap contest, OK? Yeah, yeah, OK. 1315 01:20:29,160 --> 01:20:31,840 Because you're you're just going to lose it. 1316 01:20:32,240 --> 01:20:37,160 But if you want to put in, bring in Audra McDonald and you know 1317 01:20:38,040 --> 01:20:41,160 that you can, you can totally work in that, but you have to be 1318 01:20:41,160 --> 01:20:44,000 mindful of what you book in these, in these kind of things. 1319 01:20:44,000 --> 01:20:49,120 Yeah, yeah, that's wild. Jesus, what a weird room, huh? 1320 01:20:49,960 --> 01:20:53,560 Yep, there's the famous chopsticks pipe organ. 1321 01:20:54,360 --> 01:20:56,400 Where's that? That's that's the other. 1322 01:20:56,400 --> 01:20:59,920 That's in that same place, yeah. That's so, you know, you have to 1323 01:20:59,920 --> 01:21:03,160 even cover seats behind the stage as well. 1324 01:21:03,480 --> 01:21:05,440 Yeah, Jesus. Yeah. 1325 01:21:05,920 --> 01:21:08,520 So I mean, it's wow. Huh. 1326 01:21:10,440 --> 01:21:13,520 So now we're back to Metallica and this is a good on this 1327 01:21:13,520 --> 01:21:18,720 picture, you can see of course, the towers, but what they're Jay 1328 01:21:18,720 --> 01:21:20,520 Day is at the bottom of the picture. 1329 01:21:20,520 --> 01:21:25,080 He's the assistant mixer and he's looking at a video screen 1330 01:21:25,480 --> 01:21:30,560 that is that is an overhead picture and he follows wherever 1331 01:21:30,560 --> 01:21:34,560 James goes and his job like a a part of his job. 1332 01:21:34,560 --> 01:21:39,680 He has many jobs, but one of his things is he he's basically like 1333 01:21:39,680 --> 01:21:44,560 a video editor. He switches on the correct mic 1334 01:21:45,120 --> 01:21:48,760 so that Greg over there that's mixing just has one fader for 1335 01:21:48,760 --> 01:21:52,760 James's mic. Wow, that's crazy. 1336 01:21:53,000 --> 01:21:57,520 There are 12 possible positions where James can turn up and Jay 1337 01:21:57,520 --> 01:22:01,760 has to be alert all the time for where he's going to go. 1338 01:22:01,880 --> 01:22:05,760 Wow, that's cool. Yeah, I think I watched it like 1339 01:22:05,880 --> 01:22:09,720 right up here. Yeah, it was it was pretty 1340 01:22:09,720 --> 01:22:12,480 crazy. I again, it was sub that I don't 1341 01:22:12,480 --> 01:22:15,080 know that I've ever felt before at A at a rock show. 1342 01:22:16,000 --> 01:22:22,640 Well, for those keeping score at home, it's a it's a six deep end 1343 01:22:22,640 --> 01:22:26,720 fire array. So it's two boxes high, 6 deep. 1344 01:22:26,720 --> 01:22:29,920 So it's each one is delayed to the next, to the next, to the 1345 01:22:29,920 --> 01:22:32,720 next six. And then it has the two VLF CS, 1346 01:22:33,560 --> 01:22:37,280 3 high stacks of those, which are the guys that go down to 13 1347 01:22:37,280 --> 01:22:39,680 Hertz. So it's so basically it's a 1348 01:22:39,680 --> 01:22:43,040 cannon that's 8 levels deep. Jesus. 1349 01:22:43,720 --> 01:22:47,000 So it makes a very, very controlled directionality and 1350 01:22:47,000 --> 01:22:53,080 it's so quiet behind them that we we have Subs, 16 Subs around 1351 01:22:53,080 --> 01:22:56,520 the stage in order to get sound close in. 1352 01:22:56,880 --> 01:23:00,520 Otherwise otherwise it would be completely there'd be no no low 1353 01:23:00,520 --> 01:23:05,400 end up near the barrier. Yeah, Huh. 1354 01:23:06,800 --> 01:23:08,480 Interesting. Oh, we're back there. 1355 01:23:08,600 --> 01:23:10,680 OK, that's the Tokyo Disney Sea again. 1356 01:23:10,960 --> 01:23:12,640 Yeah, you can see one of those towers. 1357 01:23:13,000 --> 01:23:15,280 Sorry. OK, so this next picture, this 1358 01:23:15,280 --> 01:23:20,200 is in I'm, I'm in Helsinki. I don't, I don't know what Turva 1359 01:23:20,200 --> 01:23:23,400 Tolowa means, but I hope it means welcome or something like 1360 01:23:23,400 --> 01:23:28,480 that or nerd alert. But this is this is a picture 1361 01:23:28,480 --> 01:23:35,960 before one of my training seminars and going back to 1984 1362 01:23:36,800 --> 01:23:40,760 when we started doing SIM work, we immediately started doing 1363 01:23:40,760 --> 01:23:44,400 trainings and they really started in earnest in 1987 when 1364 01:23:44,400 --> 01:23:49,160 we released the first official product of the of the analyzer. 1365 01:23:50,000 --> 01:23:54,600 And because our feeling was always, we need to, we, we, we 1366 01:23:54,600 --> 01:23:56,960 don't want to take this technology and sort of hold it 1367 01:23:56,960 --> 01:23:59,800 in our chest. We need to evangelize this. 1368 01:23:59,880 --> 01:24:03,280 And, and, and, and it does two things. 1369 01:24:03,280 --> 01:24:07,280 One, we teach people and also people teach us because the only 1370 01:24:07,280 --> 01:24:12,200 way you're going to find out if your ideas are solid is put them 1371 01:24:12,200 --> 01:24:14,560 out there. And sometimes I get brilliant 1372 01:24:14,560 --> 01:24:18,200 students who, who would tell me, you know, ask questions and be 1373 01:24:18,200 --> 01:24:22,480 like, good question, let's find out. 1374 01:24:22,640 --> 01:24:29,640 And so I've been teaching and learning this stuff since 1987. 1375 01:24:29,880 --> 01:24:33,000 That's led to whole seminars all around the world. 1376 01:24:33,640 --> 01:24:37,160 I'm very grateful to all the all the people that have come to my 1377 01:24:37,160 --> 01:24:37,880 training. That's. 1378 01:24:37,880 --> 01:24:39,800 Cool. Yeah, I mean, obviously training 1379 01:24:39,800 --> 01:24:42,600 is hugely important when technology's advancing this 1380 01:24:42,600 --> 01:24:46,880 quickly. Like sound, I mean sound, I 1381 01:24:46,880 --> 01:24:49,080 don't know what moves faster, sound or lighting it. 1382 01:24:49,280 --> 01:24:52,880 I used to think that sound never moved, but lighting was 1383 01:24:52,880 --> 01:24:55,040 constantly evolving and evolving and evolving. 1384 01:24:55,040 --> 01:24:58,360 But I don't know, I think sounds made pretty big leaps and 1385 01:24:58,360 --> 01:25:02,240 bounds, jumps, you know, digital consoles and all this Dante 1386 01:25:02,240 --> 01:25:04,560 stuff. Like I like I said earlier, I 1387 01:25:04,560 --> 01:25:08,280 remember, you know, an analog console with a rack of outboard 1388 01:25:08,280 --> 01:25:13,040 stuff and you know, and point source speakers like it was 1389 01:25:13,040 --> 01:25:16,600 pretty straightforward and and Anprax, you know, it was, it was 1390 01:25:16,600 --> 01:25:18,920 all it was all pretty straightforward stuff. 1391 01:25:19,360 --> 01:25:24,840 You could troubleshoot a A signal path because it went from 1392 01:25:24,960 --> 01:25:25,800 A to B. It didn't. 1393 01:25:26,520 --> 01:25:29,800 It didn't go into a network and then just become numbers. 1394 01:25:29,800 --> 01:25:32,800 Holy God. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true. 1395 01:25:32,840 --> 01:25:35,040 Never thought of that problem, but that's a big problem. 1396 01:25:35,200 --> 01:25:36,720 Oh, I think we're at the end of the pictures. 1397 01:25:36,720 --> 01:25:41,240 No, we're not. Oh, this is back to that rig. 1398 01:25:41,680 --> 01:25:44,840 That's that guy in its test form. 1399 01:25:44,880 --> 01:25:48,080 We were just going, you know, this was the early, earliest 1400 01:25:48,080 --> 01:25:51,240 version of that. Do you remember where this was? 1401 01:25:52,440 --> 01:25:57,280 This is in. This is in the Royal Arena in 1402 01:25:57,280 --> 01:26:00,000 Copenhagen. Oh OK, start of the tour. 1403 01:26:00,560 --> 01:26:03,640 Look at how young you were. Exactly, folks. 1404 01:26:04,480 --> 01:26:06,920 So let. Me, read this Berkeley Square. 1405 01:26:07,000 --> 01:26:09,040 This is that first sound system that you put in. 1406 01:26:09,280 --> 01:26:10,680 Yeah. Huh. 1407 01:26:11,360 --> 01:26:12,960 So this is 19. Console. 1408 01:26:12,960 --> 01:26:14,200 Wow. A biant console? 1409 01:26:14,200 --> 01:26:16,920 Yep. So it's all analog and you can 1410 01:26:16,920 --> 01:26:22,920 see the graphic EQ. That's a white graphic EQ Yeah, 1411 01:26:22,920 --> 01:26:24,480 it's the white is the brand name. 1412 01:26:24,480 --> 01:26:27,760 Black is the actual color, but then something I think you'll 1413 01:26:27,760 --> 01:26:32,120 find interesting is you can see an oscilloscope above in the 1414 01:26:32,120 --> 01:26:37,280 middle of that rack, and that oscilloscope is connected up to 1415 01:26:37,480 --> 01:26:42,880 a switching system. That brought back the output of 1416 01:26:42,880 --> 01:26:47,120 every amplifier so that I could see on that oscilloscope what 1417 01:26:47,120 --> 01:26:52,560 every amplifier was doing. That was something that we did 1418 01:26:52,560 --> 01:26:55,240 at FM Productions and I incorporated it here. 1419 01:26:56,040 --> 01:26:58,320 And of course that technology is now done. 1420 01:26:59,760 --> 01:27:04,080 You know, it's, it's read back on the network all the diagnosis 1421 01:27:04,560 --> 01:27:08,240 and status for your temperature and your waveforms and things. 1422 01:27:08,240 --> 01:27:12,280 But that's how that's how I monitored the system, just to 1423 01:27:12,280 --> 01:27:13,760 make sure that it wasn't overloaded. 1424 01:27:14,080 --> 01:27:18,360 And you never had like, you know, the desire or whatever to 1425 01:27:18,360 --> 01:27:20,880 to be standing here and be in the front of house guy. 1426 01:27:22,240 --> 01:27:25,240 Oh, I did originally and I was front of house at this at this 1427 01:27:25,240 --> 01:27:32,640 level, but once I once I moved into once I joined Meijer sound 1428 01:27:32,680 --> 01:27:38,560 and became an aid to this, to the to the systems and I what 1429 01:27:38,560 --> 01:27:40,800 happened? I'm it's a real simple little 1430 01:27:40,800 --> 01:27:43,000 progression. I'm at Meijer Sound. 1431 01:27:43,400 --> 01:27:46,560 We start the SIM program, I start to go out and I start to 1432 01:27:46,560 --> 01:27:48,760 tune systems. And now I'm jumping in and 1433 01:27:48,760 --> 01:27:55,120 tuning really important systems. I'm tuning Broadway musicals, 1434 01:27:55,120 --> 01:27:58,400 West End musicals, I'm tuning touring shows, I'm tuning 1435 01:27:58,400 --> 01:28:00,800 Grateful Dead shows, all of this kind of work. 1436 01:28:01,240 --> 01:28:04,640 And I'm on these shows. This is on a level and I have 1437 01:28:04,640 --> 01:28:10,320 found a whole new specialty of expertise and I'm not, I'm not 1438 01:28:10,320 --> 01:28:12,720 turning back from that. There is no going back. 1439 01:28:13,080 --> 01:28:15,360 I walked through that door. There was no going back. 1440 01:28:15,760 --> 01:28:20,480 And then from there, what happens is that by virtue of 1441 01:28:20,480 --> 01:28:24,400 tuning these systems, I learned what works in this design and 1442 01:28:24,560 --> 01:28:27,640 what doesn't. So that's how I become a system 1443 01:28:27,640 --> 01:28:31,520 designer. I say I learned how the body 1444 01:28:31,520 --> 01:28:34,520 works by being the coroner. Yeah, that's. 1445 01:28:34,520 --> 01:28:38,160 Funny. So like Metallica for example. 1446 01:28:38,560 --> 01:28:42,200 From what I understand, I think they own their Meyer sound 1447 01:28:42,200 --> 01:28:46,120 system and so how often are they upgrading that? 1448 01:28:46,120 --> 01:28:49,000 Like I know they probably upgrade components along the 1449 01:28:49,000 --> 01:28:52,760 way, but like if Meyer comes out with the, you know, the next 1450 01:28:52,760 --> 01:28:56,760 version, the next cat name after this one, will they 1451 01:28:56,760 --> 01:28:58,920 automatically go to that new system or? 1452 01:29:00,120 --> 01:29:02,800 They won't automatically, but they will. 1453 01:29:02,920 --> 01:29:07,400 They are have been very conscious of when we develop new 1454 01:29:07,400 --> 01:29:10,560 technology to move, they're ready to move to the next level. 1455 01:29:11,080 --> 01:29:14,840 And for example, I'll be going out in April and joining them in 1456 01:29:14,840 --> 01:29:18,520 Syracuse because we're we're taking the speakers that cover 1457 01:29:18,520 --> 01:29:20,760 that snake pit, that little center area. 1458 01:29:21,960 --> 01:29:25,800 And we are replacing those with the new Model X-80, which has 1459 01:29:25,800 --> 01:29:30,840 you know, 3-D2DB more power and a better coverage pattern and 1460 01:29:30,840 --> 01:29:34,240 lower distortion. And so that's an innovation that 1461 01:29:34,240 --> 01:29:39,400 we'll add and we're and we're upgrading the the the last of 1462 01:29:39,400 --> 01:29:42,680 the suburbs from the old model. To the new model and your your 1463 01:29:42,680 --> 01:29:44,720 boxes. I don't know they have the power 1464 01:29:44,720 --> 01:29:46,760 in them or their integrated power. 1465 01:29:46,840 --> 01:29:48,920 All of all of our boxes are self powered. 1466 01:29:49,080 --> 01:29:52,720 OK, OK, cool. Yeah, that's interesting. 1467 01:29:53,560 --> 01:29:55,560 All right, next. Let's see what we got. 1468 01:29:55,920 --> 01:29:57,960 Oh, are we running out? I think we ran out. 1469 01:29:58,000 --> 01:29:59,240 Yeah, we're done. That's it. 1470 01:29:59,240 --> 01:30:00,600 That's all your pictures finally. 1471 01:30:00,600 --> 01:30:02,800 Yeah, those are great pictures, man. 1472 01:30:02,840 --> 01:30:04,720 Really, really good. Yeah. 1473 01:30:04,760 --> 01:30:07,800 What a story. So you know, I was saying 1474 01:30:07,800 --> 01:30:11,520 earlier that you know, you've had like you've literally kind 1475 01:30:11,520 --> 01:30:13,000 of been there since the beginning of sound. 1476 01:30:13,000 --> 01:30:16,560 Your inspiration was the worst sound we've ever seen in a live 1477 01:30:16,560 --> 01:30:18,360 situation Which? Is you know. 1478 01:30:18,760 --> 01:30:20,520 Arguably the biggest band in the world. 1479 01:30:20,720 --> 01:30:23,160 No, my inspiration was the television show Ah. 1480 01:30:23,920 --> 01:30:25,080 Yes. Which was fine. 1481 01:30:25,520 --> 01:30:30,160 Yeah, I meant yeah. I meant an era where live sound 1482 01:30:30,160 --> 01:30:35,360 it wasn't as bad as yeah. And I saw many great band on 1483 01:30:35,360 --> 01:30:39,160 terrible sound systems. Yeah, Yeah, So did I, And I 1484 01:30:39,160 --> 01:30:43,680 wasn't a sound guy, but I saw the bands and I, I played in 1485 01:30:43,680 --> 01:30:46,440 bands that had terrible sound systems back then as well. 1486 01:30:46,440 --> 01:30:51,880 Like I, I remember we had my very first band that played live 1487 01:30:51,880 --> 01:30:55,240 shows for, you know, I don't know, 2-3 hundred people, 400 1488 01:30:55,240 --> 01:31:00,960 people every, every weekend. We had these sun speaker stacks. 1489 01:31:01,680 --> 01:31:05,080 I think we had two per side of the sun speaker stacks. 1490 01:31:05,080 --> 01:31:07,600 No Subs or anything. It was just these, I think they 1491 01:31:07,600 --> 01:31:11,640 had probably like 410 inch speakers and A and a horn or 1492 01:31:11,640 --> 01:31:14,920 something in them and they were terrible. 1493 01:31:14,920 --> 01:31:16,240 They were just completely terrible. 1494 01:31:16,240 --> 01:31:19,320 It was just a little louder than us just yelling at the audience, 1495 01:31:19,320 --> 01:31:24,840 you know, and but certainly, no, there was no sound coming out of 1496 01:31:24,840 --> 01:31:26,640 those. Like they weren't mixing us at 1497 01:31:26,640 --> 01:31:28,200 all. It was just whatever was coming 1498 01:31:28,200 --> 01:31:35,040 off stage a little bit louder. And so you know, aside from the 1499 01:31:35,040 --> 01:31:38,280 obvious going from analog to digital consoles, going from 1500 01:31:38,280 --> 01:31:41,840 stacked speakers to line arrays, what are the other massive 1501 01:31:41,840 --> 01:31:47,640 advancements in your tenure? Oh, in my time. 1502 01:31:47,880 --> 01:31:50,760 Yeah, in your time. Oh my gosh, it's so many things. 1503 01:31:53,080 --> 01:32:01,120 It's it when I start the manufacturers of loud speakers 1504 01:32:02,160 --> 01:32:07,440 are still basically in They are not mobile. 1505 01:32:08,600 --> 01:32:12,560 They are, they've been making speakers for the cinema and for 1506 01:32:12,760 --> 01:32:19,360 permanent installation to, to do a, a, a talking head or our, you 1507 01:32:19,360 --> 01:32:21,320 know, ladies and gentlemen kind of thing. 1508 01:32:21,840 --> 01:32:24,480 A public address system A. Public address system. 1509 01:32:24,760 --> 01:32:30,600 And so and so when I come in, I'm in the era where the the 1510 01:32:30,600 --> 01:32:35,120 Turing systems are using the the baskets and the cones and the 1511 01:32:35,120 --> 01:32:42,600 drivers of JBL and Altech and Electrovoice and these 1512 01:32:42,600 --> 01:32:45,560 companies, but nobody is using their boxes. 1513 01:32:48,400 --> 01:32:50,480 Every. All the companies, Clare 1514 01:32:50,480 --> 01:32:54,720 Brothers builds their S4 stuff with that stuff. 1515 01:32:55,040 --> 01:32:58,240 Marilyn Salm builds their whatever. 1516 01:32:58,840 --> 01:33:02,680 Everybody's everybody's makes a thing. 1517 01:33:04,480 --> 01:33:07,880 OK, Show call was even was even building their own monitor 1518 01:33:07,880 --> 01:33:10,160 boards because nobody made a monitor board. 1519 01:33:12,280 --> 01:33:15,160 OK, it's hard to think about these things, but the the 1520 01:33:15,160 --> 01:33:19,400 industry was not ready for us. So it was being, you can call it 1521 01:33:19,400 --> 01:33:21,640 a garage, but the garages were the laboratories. 1522 01:33:21,640 --> 01:33:26,200 That was the place where, where, where the the most important 1523 01:33:26,200 --> 01:33:32,120 work was being done. And eventually you get into the, 1524 01:33:32,120 --> 01:33:39,280 you know, into the 80s, and the manufacturers wake up and get 1525 01:33:39,280 --> 01:33:40,200 it. Yeah. 1526 01:33:40,840 --> 01:33:45,920 OK, And and you and it starts to turn where I saw before that 1527 01:33:46,160 --> 01:33:48,320 year, I call it. This is the era where custom is 1528 01:33:48,320 --> 01:33:50,160 king. The last thing anybody wants to 1529 01:33:50,160 --> 01:33:54,360 do is have you show up with a JBL cabaret speaker that you 1530 01:33:54,360 --> 01:33:56,480 bought at the music store. They want you. 1531 01:33:56,480 --> 01:33:58,280 They'd rather have your homemade thing. 1532 01:33:58,440 --> 01:34:00,800 OK, Yeah. Then the thing turns around 1533 01:34:00,800 --> 01:34:04,480 where now nobody wants to hear about your homemade speaker. 1534 01:34:04,840 --> 01:34:07,880 Yeah, yeah. No, thank you or your great 1535 01:34:07,880 --> 01:34:11,920 theory of this. It's like we've matured as an 1536 01:34:11,920 --> 01:34:17,160 industry and speakers are now and not only it's not the 1537 01:34:17,160 --> 01:34:20,720 speaker and you choose this AM, but you choose this crossover 1538 01:34:20,720 --> 01:34:23,240 frequency. It's like you just expect that 1539 01:34:23,560 --> 01:34:27,440 this speaker is that speaker and it's whether I'm in Australia or 1540 01:34:27,440 --> 01:34:31,400 Antarctica or Japan, that speaker model is going to 1541 01:34:31,400 --> 01:34:34,680 perform exactly the same. Yeah, yeah. 1542 01:34:35,320 --> 01:34:38,920 I mean, for me that evolution was that lousy Sun speaker 1543 01:34:38,920 --> 01:34:42,320 system that I told you about. And then, you know, my next band 1544 01:34:42,320 --> 01:34:47,680 we moved all the way up to like JBLW bins with 45 Sixties and 1545 01:34:47,680 --> 01:34:51,680 then Altech Horns. That was like, whoa, this is 1546 01:34:51,680 --> 01:34:54,840 incredible. And then all of a sudden we 1547 01:34:54,840 --> 01:34:57,480 started seeing some of the bands going around to these bigger 1548 01:34:57,480 --> 01:35:02,240 clubs and stuff and they had these weird European things, the 1549 01:35:02,240 --> 01:35:06,440 Phase plug design, Martin stuff. Norton and Turbosound, yeah. 1550 01:35:06,560 --> 01:35:08,760 Yeah. And I never saw any Turbosound 1551 01:35:08,760 --> 01:35:11,240 stuff. This was in Canada, but Martin 1552 01:35:11,240 --> 01:35:14,920 became quite prevalent and then all the bands were using the the 1553 01:35:15,000 --> 01:35:20,800 15 inch, you know, Martin Bin and the phase plug mid and and 1554 01:35:21,240 --> 01:35:25,280 that just really took off and that kind of owned at least the 1555 01:35:25,280 --> 01:35:29,000 club market in Canada, the club touring market in Canada for for 1556 01:35:29,000 --> 01:35:32,760 quite some time. So yeah, that was sort of my 1557 01:35:32,760 --> 01:35:36,920 evolution from the beginning. But you're right, like every one 1558 01:35:36,920 --> 01:35:39,960 of these guys that I talked to who were there in the beginning, 1559 01:35:39,960 --> 01:35:45,600 whether it's Community or Turbo Sound or whoever JBL, you know, 1560 01:35:45,920 --> 01:35:50,080 they went from building, you know, homemade boxes in their 1561 01:35:50,080 --> 01:35:53,520 garage to to, you know, something much more mass 1562 01:35:53,520 --> 01:35:55,160 produced. And, and like you said, you 1563 01:35:55,160 --> 01:35:57,720 could get it in any continent, country, whatever. 1564 01:35:57,880 --> 01:36:02,800 And they were all the same. So I think as systems grew, that 1565 01:36:02,800 --> 01:36:06,280 became quite important because, you know, you needed to kind of 1566 01:36:06,280 --> 01:36:09,200 get the same thing on the next stop or the next stop because 1567 01:36:09,560 --> 01:36:12,360 originally touring companies didn't typically go across the 1568 01:36:12,360 --> 01:36:14,840 entire US either. Like they'd hand it off to the 1569 01:36:14,840 --> 01:36:18,960 next regional company. So, yeah, yeah. 1570 01:36:19,720 --> 01:36:24,760 But the other big evolution to me in terms of the the work is, 1571 01:36:25,240 --> 01:36:30,600 is the specialization. So when I, when I started, I, an 1572 01:36:30,600 --> 01:36:36,160 audio engineer, knew everything like you, you, you know, you 1573 01:36:36,160 --> 01:36:40,160 know how to solder. Yeah, you know, you ran cable. 1574 01:36:40,160 --> 01:36:42,320 Pack a truck. Exactly. 1575 01:36:42,320 --> 01:36:44,920 How to get it all back in? But but you could, you would 1576 01:36:44,920 --> 01:36:48,120 troubleshoot and then then you'd mix. 1577 01:36:50,440 --> 01:36:55,240 But that what's happened now is that we really have worked, 1578 01:36:55,480 --> 01:37:00,800 moved into a specialized world. There are the people that are 1579 01:37:01,480 --> 01:37:04,680 that, that are get the systems up and running. 1580 01:37:04,720 --> 01:37:07,520 People that are gravity, I call them the gravity people. 1581 01:37:07,640 --> 01:37:09,280 People that get everything flown. 1582 01:37:09,840 --> 01:37:13,960 That's a whole giant skill level to do that. 1583 01:37:14,160 --> 01:37:16,000 Then there's the network specialists. 1584 01:37:16,560 --> 01:37:18,960 Then there's the. Networking's another big change, 1585 01:37:18,960 --> 01:37:20,720 I guess, yeah. Massive. 1586 01:37:20,760 --> 01:37:21,560 Change. Yeah. 1587 01:37:21,560 --> 01:37:24,080 Like you said, you used to go from here to here, and if 1588 01:37:24,080 --> 01:37:26,560 something was wrong, it was one of those connectors on either 1589 01:37:26,560 --> 01:37:29,000 end of that cable, or somebody pinched the middle of the cable 1590 01:37:29,000 --> 01:37:30,880 but replaced the cable and you're good. 1591 01:37:31,440 --> 01:37:33,120 Exactly. Now just figuring out where the 1592 01:37:33,120 --> 01:37:35,120 problem is is is a whole different thing. 1593 01:37:35,720 --> 01:37:38,320 Exactly. I mean, Wiresh, Wireshark was 1594 01:37:38,320 --> 01:37:41,600 not a a tool in my in my audio computer. 1595 01:37:41,800 --> 01:37:49,360 It is now and the then, then you have people that are, you know, 1596 01:37:49,360 --> 01:37:52,600 the system engineer now has to keep track of not just keeping 1597 01:37:52,680 --> 01:37:57,400 the a system running, but the world of outboard gear has blown 1598 01:37:57,400 --> 01:38:00,160 up into all of these plugins and. 1599 01:38:00,280 --> 01:38:03,880 Which I don't understand at all. All, all all this stuff which 1600 01:38:03,880 --> 01:38:09,320 can be just an unbelievable rat's nest of of it's like the 1601 01:38:09,320 --> 01:38:12,440 ultimate. You can see people whose systems 1602 01:38:13,000 --> 01:38:17,000 whose whose whole mix has become the ultimate Rd. with the 5 1603 01:38:17,000 --> 01:38:19,360 million potholes plugged in. Right. 1604 01:38:19,440 --> 01:38:20,480 Yeah. OK. 1605 01:38:20,480 --> 01:38:23,440 It's like, I just wanted to peel all that stuff out. 1606 01:38:24,080 --> 01:38:26,640 Yeah, just like, Oh my God. Yeah. 1607 01:38:27,560 --> 01:38:31,400 But that's that's I'm not young. That's not my thing. 1608 01:38:31,960 --> 01:38:34,800 Nobody asked me to help on that. But it's, it's, it's interesting 1609 01:38:34,800 --> 01:38:39,960 because it's, it's just, you know, you have, you have a, a 1610 01:38:39,960 --> 01:38:43,240 lot of, there's a lot of different fields of expertise 1611 01:38:43,240 --> 01:38:47,600 and nobody can really become an expert in all of them now. 1612 01:38:47,600 --> 01:38:51,440 It's just too wide of a The breath is too wide. 1613 01:38:51,640 --> 01:38:54,000 Yeah, yeah. I mean, I guess if you're, if 1614 01:38:54,000 --> 01:38:57,120 you're, you know, taking a small system down to the to a 1615 01:38:57,120 --> 01:38:59,960 conference room or something for a meeting or whatever, like 1616 01:39:00,240 --> 01:39:02,760 that's one thing. But when you're talking about 1617 01:39:02,760 --> 01:39:06,400 the average arena tour or, or certainly stadium tour, yeah, 1618 01:39:06,400 --> 01:39:09,000 you got you've got experts in all sorts of like even just 1619 01:39:09,000 --> 01:39:13,320 having basically a a front of house engineer and then an 1620 01:39:13,320 --> 01:39:16,080 assistant front of house house engineer, like you just said 1621 01:39:16,080 --> 01:39:17,440 with Metallica. Yes. 1622 01:39:17,960 --> 01:39:21,080 And like I said, it blew my mind when I saw their monitor world, 1623 01:39:21,280 --> 01:39:23,720 you know, under the seats in the in the stadium. 1624 01:39:23,720 --> 01:39:25,800 I was like, what is going on here? 1625 01:39:26,480 --> 01:39:28,640 And he said, oh, that's monitors and. 1626 01:39:28,840 --> 01:39:31,000 Exactly. I'd never seen anything like 1627 01:39:31,000 --> 01:39:35,320 that and there were like 4 guys I think in on the consoles 1628 01:39:35,320 --> 01:39:39,280 sitting there in monitor world. I was like, what so? 1629 01:39:39,720 --> 01:39:43,040 Then there's people. There's people whose entire line 1630 01:39:43,040 --> 01:39:46,640 of work is radio frequencies. Yeah. 1631 01:39:47,360 --> 01:39:51,040 And you know, they're, they've got to monitor their 1632 01:39:51,040 --> 01:39:53,640 frequencies, they've got to get them all cleared when you get to 1633 01:39:53,640 --> 01:39:57,480 this city, make sure there's no traffic on there, reassign if 1634 01:39:57,480 --> 01:40:00,280 they need it, then they've got to monitor anything that 1635 01:40:00,280 --> 01:40:03,760 happens. They're, I mean, that's a whole 1636 01:40:03,760 --> 01:40:07,160 specialty in and of itself. Yeah, yeah. 1637 01:40:07,160 --> 01:40:10,720 People wonder how you end up with, you know, 150 people on a 1638 01:40:10,720 --> 01:40:12,440 tour or whatever. Well, guess what? 1639 01:40:12,800 --> 01:40:16,080 You know, that's how, Yeah. So, yeah, I know. 1640 01:40:16,080 --> 01:40:18,000 That's incredible. That's incredible. 1641 01:40:18,880 --> 01:40:22,320 So you you mentioned something in your notes called Polarity 1642 01:40:22,320 --> 01:40:23,640 Gate. What's that? 1643 01:40:24,680 --> 01:40:27,960 Oh, you had you had said something about like formative, 1644 01:40:29,480 --> 01:40:32,480 you know, events or, yeah, memorable things. 1645 01:40:32,600 --> 01:40:36,640 Yeah. And this is a this is a funny 1646 01:40:36,640 --> 01:40:40,040 little story and it's way back in 1984. 1647 01:40:40,040 --> 01:40:46,560 And it was, We are in the earliest days of doing the 1648 01:40:46,560 --> 01:40:48,880 Grateful Dead with this SIM analyzer. 1649 01:40:49,360 --> 01:40:53,560 So, so we're, we're really just kind of proving to them that 1650 01:40:53,560 --> 01:40:57,240 this is that this worked. We had taken this technology to 1651 01:40:57,560 --> 01:41:01,600 to rush the Canadian band we had. 1652 01:41:01,760 --> 01:41:03,240 And they said, oh, that's really cool. 1653 01:41:03,480 --> 01:41:07,720 It seems to work, but we don't do experiments. 1654 01:41:09,120 --> 01:41:12,080 So, you know, you can look at our thing, but don't do 1655 01:41:12,080 --> 01:41:13,480 anything. OK, so we did. 1656 01:41:14,440 --> 01:41:17,000 And then on they go. Frank Zappa. 1657 01:41:17,040 --> 01:41:18,640 Same thing. You'd think Frank Zappa would be 1658 01:41:18,640 --> 01:41:19,800 all experimental. Yeah. 1659 01:41:20,360 --> 01:41:21,440 Nope. Nope. 1660 01:41:22,040 --> 01:41:23,480 Absolutely not. Weird. 1661 01:41:24,600 --> 01:41:28,040 Yeah, that was amazing to me. And then I watched him rehearse 1662 01:41:28,040 --> 01:41:31,240 and the guy, I've never seen a more disciplined band. 1663 01:41:31,360 --> 01:41:36,240 What I'm hearing is sounds like total complete chaos and then he 1664 01:41:36,240 --> 01:41:40,640 stops bar 127. You played an E flat that's 1665 01:41:40,640 --> 01:41:42,440 supposed to be E natural. Yeah. 1666 01:41:44,040 --> 01:41:46,200 Probably amongst this things are, yeah. 1667 01:41:47,960 --> 01:41:51,680 That sounds like a typical Frank Zappa song. 1668 01:41:52,000 --> 01:41:53,280 Exactly. Yeah. 1669 01:41:53,280 --> 01:41:56,120 So, so Grateful Dead, when we brought it to them and said, you 1670 01:41:56,120 --> 01:41:59,240 know, well, you know, we've been turned out twice, but we have 1671 01:41:59,240 --> 01:42:02,200 this experimental thing. We think it's going to be really 1672 01:42:02,200 --> 01:42:03,880 important. We can analyze the system with 1673 01:42:03,880 --> 01:42:08,600 music as the source, and it's really exciting, but that's 1674 01:42:08,600 --> 01:42:11,680 where we get they're like, hmm, experiment right there on the 1675 01:42:11,680 --> 01:42:13,920 front of house on the console while the show is going on. 1676 01:42:14,240 --> 01:42:17,520 Yeah, bring it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1677 01:42:17,720 --> 01:42:25,360 So on we go and we're doing our second or third show and I get 1678 01:42:25,360 --> 01:42:30,000 asked John Myers there, Don Pearson, the head of ultrasound, 1679 01:42:30,000 --> 01:42:34,880 who's a really important person who who left us too, too early, 1680 01:42:35,080 --> 01:42:36,960 and Dan Healy, the mixer, they're all there. 1681 01:42:37,240 --> 01:42:42,240 And they commissioned me to to to try out to measure the thing 1682 01:42:42,240 --> 01:42:47,280 and during the song, after this song finishes, swap the polarity 1683 01:42:47,280 --> 01:42:49,600 of the subwoofers and see what happens. 1684 01:42:52,200 --> 01:42:59,920 And I swap it and I watch and I see a hole at 100 Hertz comes 1685 01:43:00,240 --> 01:43:03,400 and reverse and just fill in perfectly. 1686 01:43:04,000 --> 01:43:06,760 Huh. So. 1687 01:43:07,240 --> 01:43:11,280 And I say boom, play the reversal now. 1688 01:43:11,280 --> 01:43:14,280 Now the Subs are no longer fighting the mains because they 1689 01:43:14,280 --> 01:43:18,560 both working at 100 Hertz and they were fighting because they 1690 01:43:18,560 --> 01:43:22,400 were 180° apart. Yeah. 1691 01:43:23,480 --> 01:43:31,320 And I go, yes, and I get this, this look and everybody looks at 1692 01:43:31,320 --> 01:43:35,680 everybody. And Dan Healy, the mix was like, 1693 01:43:37,400 --> 01:43:45,640 and Pearson's like and John Meyer's like, yeah, so, So what 1694 01:43:45,640 --> 01:43:53,600 I found out was I got put into a years long argument between Dan 1695 01:43:53,600 --> 01:43:58,440 Healy and Don Pearson about whether the Subs should be 1696 01:43:58,440 --> 01:44:02,560 played reversed or not, which is which is better. 1697 01:44:02,840 --> 01:44:06,960 And I solved it and I proved the client. 1698 01:44:07,000 --> 01:44:09,800 Wrong. Oh, Ouch. 1699 01:44:11,080 --> 01:44:12,320 How? How'd that go? 1700 01:44:12,960 --> 01:44:17,200 How'd that end up? It all it all ended up fine at 1701 01:44:17,200 --> 01:44:22,160 the AN because of course it was, you know, I I'm just calling I'm 1702 01:44:22,200 --> 01:44:25,360 just the umpire here. I'm just I'm I don't have a dog 1703 01:44:25,360 --> 01:44:28,400 in this fight that that is adding. 1704 01:44:28,480 --> 01:44:31,360 The other way is subtracting. Yeah, OK. 1705 01:44:31,680 --> 01:44:34,120 Did you have to buy somebody a steak later or something? 1706 01:44:34,200 --> 01:44:37,560 No, I, I just, I just got, I just got told, you know, I was 1707 01:44:37,560 --> 01:44:42,040 like, it's like you just don't celebrate, you know, but I 1708 01:44:42,040 --> 01:44:44,800 didn't know that there was emotions involved at this. 1709 01:44:45,040 --> 01:44:48,560 I celebrate because like, holy crap, it works, you know. 1710 01:44:48,840 --> 01:44:50,480 Well, you did it and it solved it. 1711 01:44:50,480 --> 01:44:53,240 How cool is that? Yeah, yeah. 1712 01:44:54,760 --> 01:44:57,040 So that's a tough one. That's a tough one because what 1713 01:44:57,040 --> 01:44:59,480 are you supposed to do? Lie and say no, no, there was no 1714 01:44:59,480 --> 01:45:00,760 problem, right? You know? 1715 01:45:01,440 --> 01:45:03,280 They. Just to stroke somebody's ego. 1716 01:45:03,600 --> 01:45:08,200 They well, the, the lesson learned was is be mindful when, 1717 01:45:08,200 --> 01:45:11,440 when someone you know every, when you're, when you're making 1718 01:45:11,440 --> 01:45:16,840 a proof of something, be mindful that you might be stepping into 1719 01:45:16,840 --> 01:45:19,400 somebody's ego. Doesn't mean change doesn't mean 1720 01:45:19,400 --> 01:45:26,080 change The you don't modify the reality, but but take it, make 1721 01:45:26,080 --> 01:45:28,920 it carefully. And I learned, you know, from 1722 01:45:28,920 --> 01:45:31,440 then on, it's like when I when I can, when I would walk into a 1723 01:45:31,440 --> 01:45:37,520 place and I'd go like, OK, this design is totally wrong. 1724 01:45:37,760 --> 01:45:40,040 We're going to have to the PA. It's got to come down. 1725 01:45:40,040 --> 01:45:42,960 We've got to rehang this Papa. It's like, and I know it's going 1726 01:45:42,960 --> 01:45:45,920 to be, it's going to make the consultant look like an idiot or 1727 01:45:45,920 --> 01:45:50,400 the designer look like bad. So you have to really do this 1728 01:45:50,400 --> 01:45:52,480 carefully. So what I have to do is like, I 1729 01:45:52,480 --> 01:45:57,400 don't just say bring it down. I said, OK, so I, I stage up and 1730 01:45:57,400 --> 01:46:01,560 get it and I place the mic in a way that shows the problem and I 1731 01:46:01,560 --> 01:46:04,800 bring them over and say, wow, I'm observing this and it looks 1732 01:46:04,800 --> 01:46:08,720 like this over on the, you know, on the on in the center and now 1733 01:46:08,920 --> 01:46:13,360 over on this seat over to the side, it's 10 DB down. 1734 01:46:13,680 --> 01:46:16,000 I think that we need to angle it out. 1735 01:46:16,840 --> 01:46:20,600 I would try, I think it's 10 DB down and you know, then I'll 1736 01:46:20,600 --> 01:46:23,480 look up there and of course, and I'll say so, so I don't know. 1737 01:46:23,480 --> 01:46:24,920 What do you, what do you think we should do? 1738 01:46:24,920 --> 01:46:28,160 I let them say, oh, that's the smart way to do it. 1739 01:46:28,800 --> 01:46:31,320 And they say, wow, I'm not sure what do you think? 1740 01:46:31,360 --> 01:46:33,080 Wow, brilliant. I think we need to bring it 1741 01:46:33,080 --> 01:46:34,720 down. We're going to have to open up 1742 01:46:34,720 --> 01:46:37,880 the slay angle between those. Give him the answer, but let 1743 01:46:37,880 --> 01:46:39,440 him. Let him deliver it. 1744 01:46:39,440 --> 01:46:41,520 You know what I mean? Exactly, Yeah. 1745 01:46:41,880 --> 01:46:44,000 That's. Keep everybody you. 1746 01:46:44,000 --> 01:46:46,080 Must have been married for a while because that's the same 1747 01:46:46,080 --> 01:46:49,720 technique. Yes dear, does this need? 1748 01:46:49,720 --> 01:46:53,680 Salt, you know, does this meal, does this meal need salt? 1749 01:46:53,680 --> 01:46:56,960 Does this pair, does this dress make my butt look big? 1750 01:46:57,360 --> 01:46:58,160 You know? Yeah. 1751 01:46:58,160 --> 01:47:02,640 These are all very, very touchy answers that you need to give. 1752 01:47:02,640 --> 01:47:04,760 You have to be very careful. Yeah. 1753 01:47:04,800 --> 01:47:13,920 No, that's brilliant. So you mentioned a charity that 1754 01:47:13,920 --> 01:47:17,920 you're you support pretty heavily, which I believe is the 1755 01:47:17,920 --> 01:47:21,240 Southern Poverty Poverty Law Center. 1756 01:47:21,520 --> 01:47:25,040 Southern Poverty Law Center, Easy for me to say. 1757 01:47:26,120 --> 01:47:28,680 So what's the story there? Do you have a some sort of a 1758 01:47:28,680 --> 01:47:31,480 connection to that or is it just something meaningful for some? 1759 01:47:31,480 --> 01:47:38,480 Reason I've been a supporter of their work for 25, maybe 30 1760 01:47:38,480 --> 01:47:43,120 years. Morris Dees was the founder. 1761 01:47:43,400 --> 01:47:49,320 It's based out of Montgomery, AL And it was what they, what they 1762 01:47:49,320 --> 01:47:54,120 started with was was representing people in, 1763 01:47:54,480 --> 01:47:59,040 especially in racial prejudice cases, giving them 1764 01:47:59,040 --> 01:48:00,640 representation and what they were. 1765 01:48:00,640 --> 01:48:04,760 Their real breakthrough was figuring out that they could go 1766 01:48:04,760 --> 01:48:09,280 after the Ku Klux Klan after horrible things that they would 1767 01:48:09,280 --> 01:48:15,440 do and sue them, get them involved in litigation. 1768 01:48:16,360 --> 01:48:20,560 And they broke the Klan in numerous cases, forcing them to 1769 01:48:20,560 --> 01:48:24,520 sell the all their assets to the people that they had who burned 1770 01:48:24,520 --> 01:48:26,400 crosses on their lawns in these years. 1771 01:48:26,400 --> 01:48:28,320 They couldn't, they couldn't put people in jail. 1772 01:48:28,320 --> 01:48:31,480 They couldn't convict them on that level, but they could show 1773 01:48:31,480 --> 01:48:37,880 a level of, of criminal conspiracy that was, that was 1774 01:48:37,880 --> 01:48:42,240 civilly liable and that the organization was a criminal 1775 01:48:42,240 --> 01:48:44,280 organization. I mean, it, you know, was a, you 1776 01:48:45,520 --> 01:48:50,400 know, injurious entity. So that they basically were able 1777 01:48:50,400 --> 01:48:53,760 to bleed these things out and take their assets. 1778 01:48:53,760 --> 01:48:57,000 And and so they've been, they've done tremendous work. 1779 01:48:57,200 --> 01:48:59,640 And you'll if you know that names, look for them. 1780 01:48:59,640 --> 01:49:04,200 Anytime you see a big racial case break, you're going to see 1781 01:49:04,960 --> 01:49:06,800 something. They're. 1782 01:49:06,960 --> 01:49:09,360 Interesting at the microphone they're involved. 1783 01:49:09,440 --> 01:49:12,760 Yeah, that's interesting. You know, there's a guy that's 1784 01:49:12,960 --> 01:49:16,040 always on Joe Rogan, who I've heard a couple of times on Joe 1785 01:49:16,040 --> 01:49:21,720 Rogan, who works very hard on like wrongful prosecution cases 1786 01:49:21,720 --> 01:49:23,520 and stuff. And quite often, quite often 1787 01:49:23,520 --> 01:49:28,040 racially, you know, inspired or driven or whatever you want to 1788 01:49:28,040 --> 01:49:30,440 call it. You know, hey, you're a brown 1789 01:49:30,440 --> 01:49:32,560 guy. You must have committed this 1790 01:49:32,560 --> 01:49:34,600 murder because you were in the same county. 1791 01:49:36,240 --> 01:49:41,040 And, and he goes and gets them off and some of them are on, you 1792 01:49:41,040 --> 01:49:44,840 know, death row and, and some of them are serving life sentences 1793 01:49:44,840 --> 01:49:46,160 and stuff. And he gets them off. 1794 01:49:46,560 --> 01:49:49,160 And it's, it's a really interesting story because it's 1795 01:49:49,160 --> 01:49:52,200 disgusting to think that that actually goes on, that people 1796 01:49:52,200 --> 01:49:56,440 are just, you know, thrown in jail because of their skin color 1797 01:49:56,440 --> 01:50:01,760 or because of their, you know, financial standing or whatever 1798 01:50:01,760 --> 01:50:03,720 it is like it's, it's disgusting. 1799 01:50:03,720 --> 01:50:06,160 It really is disgusting. And, you know, maybe that's the 1800 01:50:06,160 --> 01:50:08,440 Canadian in me. You know, I got a little, a 1801 01:50:08,440 --> 01:50:12,640 little bit of liberal Canadian in me and, and I don't love that 1802 01:50:12,680 --> 01:50:15,440 concept. So that's a that's a really cool 1803 01:50:15,920 --> 01:50:19,520 charity to support, you know, I think it's meaningful. 1804 01:50:19,880 --> 01:50:21,200 So what do you got going on this year? 1805 01:50:21,200 --> 01:50:24,360 What's What's big in 25 for Mr. Bob? 1806 01:50:25,880 --> 01:50:29,280 I will. We're supporting Metallica's new 1807 01:50:29,840 --> 01:50:32,440 those changes and they're, they could have some shows in 1808 01:50:32,440 --> 01:50:36,560 Australia that would do an end stage, not the full tower stage. 1809 01:50:36,760 --> 01:50:41,160 OK. And so that's a new design for 1810 01:50:41,160 --> 01:50:43,600 that. Then I have the Rascilda 1811 01:50:43,600 --> 01:50:47,640 Festival, which is a large festival in Denmark. 1812 01:50:47,640 --> 01:50:51,200 It's in it's 54th year. Yeah, I do a. 1813 01:50:51,280 --> 01:50:52,720 Full festival. Yeah. 1814 01:50:52,920 --> 01:50:55,880 So we we're involved in all the stages for that. 1815 01:50:55,880 --> 01:51:00,920 So there's seven stages that need to be designed and seven 1816 01:51:00,920 --> 01:51:03,640 days of music. It's it's it's our big team we 1817 01:51:03,640 --> 01:51:05,400 send over there to take care of that. 1818 01:51:05,720 --> 01:51:08,920 It's super good. And then I'll probably do 1819 01:51:08,920 --> 01:51:14,040 Outside Lands again and I've got some, I've got some we're we're 1820 01:51:14,040 --> 01:51:18,120 breaking, breaking the ice in in the world of NHL. 1821 01:51:18,120 --> 01:51:22,760 We've got three NHL arenas that we did in the last two years and 1822 01:51:22,760 --> 01:51:23,600 we're. We're. 1823 01:51:23,600 --> 01:51:30,080 Stranded we did. First was Excel Arena in 1824 01:51:30,840 --> 01:51:36,160 Minnesota, then Amelie in Tampa Bay, and then the latest was 1825 01:51:36,280 --> 01:51:40,680 Rogers Center in Toronto, OH. OK, Yeah, it's amazing. 1826 01:51:40,680 --> 01:51:43,720 That's, it's so funny because I just went to a game on Saturday 1827 01:51:43,720 --> 01:51:47,400 with my friend in, I'm down in South Florida, so the Florida 1828 01:51:47,400 --> 01:51:52,240 Panthers and I was listening to the system before the game 1829 01:51:52,240 --> 01:51:53,880 started. They were playing some music and 1830 01:51:53,880 --> 01:51:57,440 things were going on and I was like, I can't believe how much 1831 01:51:57,440 --> 01:52:00,640 better sound is in arenas now than it used to be because I've 1832 01:52:00,640 --> 01:52:03,520 provided lots of lighting systems and I've gone to, I'm a 1833 01:52:03,920 --> 01:52:07,440 Canadian, so I'm a huge hockey fan and so I've been to lots of 1834 01:52:07,440 --> 01:52:11,240 hockey games, but they used to just blast music through public 1835 01:52:11,240 --> 01:52:12,440 address systems. Exactly. 1836 01:52:13,600 --> 01:52:15,520 Yeah. Oh, it was just so bad. 1837 01:52:15,520 --> 01:52:19,040 And now they've got like loads of Subs and it just great 1838 01:52:19,040 --> 01:52:20,880 sounding systems in some of these arenas. 1839 01:52:21,000 --> 01:52:25,560 Certainly not as good as those 3, but but yeah. 1840 01:52:25,560 --> 01:52:27,880 So that's that's a new market for you guys then, right? 1841 01:52:28,120 --> 01:52:32,680 Or an emerging market? Let's say that, yeah, it's been, 1842 01:52:32,680 --> 01:52:36,280 we've, we've had things there, but we had a really nice winning 1843 01:52:36,280 --> 01:52:40,120 streak here with the Panther and it's really made an impact. 1844 01:52:40,120 --> 01:52:42,240 Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's cool. 1845 01:52:42,400 --> 01:52:44,040 That's very cool. What else? 1846 01:52:44,160 --> 01:52:45,640 That's it. That's your whole year. 1847 01:52:45,840 --> 01:52:47,200 I heard you're getting a new guitar. 1848 01:52:47,560 --> 01:52:49,480 I am getting a new guitar. Yeah. 1849 01:52:49,840 --> 01:52:50,480 What's that? Yeah. 1850 01:52:52,080 --> 01:52:55,800 It is. It is a replica of Jerry 1851 01:52:55,800 --> 01:53:01,320 Garcia's Tiger guitar by Scarlet Fires Guitar. 1852 01:53:01,760 --> 01:53:04,960 OK, don't know anything about that. 1853 01:53:04,960 --> 01:53:08,200 I was never a dead fan so. Yeah, well. 1854 01:53:09,920 --> 01:53:13,400 So who makes it? Scarlet Fire. 1855 01:53:13,720 --> 01:53:16,400 OK. And they're, they're in Northern 1856 01:53:16,400 --> 01:53:18,640 California or something. They're they're in Dallas. 1857 01:53:18,840 --> 01:53:23,920 OK. But the Leo Elliott, the guitar 1858 01:53:23,920 --> 01:53:28,680 maker was was worked with the full recipe. 1859 01:53:28,800 --> 01:53:32,400 It's a it's a really super high end custom guitar. 1860 01:53:32,640 --> 01:53:38,200 It's it's, it's crazy. It's got it's, it's a beautiful 1861 01:53:38,200 --> 01:53:42,760 piece of work, but it's also highly evolved electronics. 1862 01:53:44,280 --> 01:53:47,240 I'm looking at it right now. That is a beautiful guitar. 1863 01:53:47,840 --> 01:53:51,320 Yeah. Wow, does it have that that 1864 01:53:52,040 --> 01:53:54,760 whatever it is, what is it? A tiger or something, Some kind 1865 01:53:54,760 --> 01:53:56,320 of animal on it? Yeah. 1866 01:53:57,120 --> 01:54:00,120 That's wild. The tiger was just put on 1867 01:54:00,120 --> 01:54:02,840 yesterday. I'm he's sending me I'm getting 1868 01:54:02,840 --> 01:54:05,640 daily updates. He's finally I've I ordered this 1869 01:54:05,640 --> 01:54:11,000 thing in February of last year. Wow, yeah, I'm looking at it 1870 01:54:11,000 --> 01:54:11,400 right now. It's. 1871 01:54:11,440 --> 01:54:14,720 Becoming real now. Yeah, that is cool. 1872 01:54:14,720 --> 01:54:17,360 Well, congratulations on that. That's probably pretty exciting. 1873 01:54:17,360 --> 01:54:21,040 So you still play then? I do thanks to the pandemic. 1874 01:54:21,120 --> 01:54:26,480 I have a band that's fine. How is that? 1875 01:54:26,720 --> 01:54:30,480 Because I never I, I, I've always played, but I, I can only 1876 01:54:30,480 --> 01:54:33,560 ever play with pickups, you know, like a little like a 1877 01:54:33,560 --> 01:54:37,840 little informal pickup jam session because I can never, I 1878 01:54:37,840 --> 01:54:40,880 can never be counted on to show up because I'm always out. 1879 01:54:41,240 --> 01:54:46,560 But the pandemic grounded me and I got together with a group of 1880 01:54:46,560 --> 01:54:51,720 people and we we play all, all around the most terrible clubs 1881 01:54:51,720 --> 01:54:54,240 in in in Manhattan and it's quite fun. 1882 01:54:54,520 --> 01:54:57,080 But we did play the bitter end, which was quite beautiful. 1883 01:54:57,080 --> 01:54:59,840 Yes, that's that's my. Guitar. 1884 01:54:59,960 --> 01:55:03,920 Yeah, Yeah, that's interesting. What kind of wit is that? 1885 01:55:04,280 --> 01:55:09,160 That's called Coco bolo. It's an exotic. 1886 01:55:09,160 --> 01:55:17,680 I believe it's a Amazon. It's a beautiful grains to it. 1887 01:55:17,920 --> 01:55:26,480 How close of a replica is it? It's it's as close as they can 1888 01:55:26,480 --> 01:55:28,480 make it. I mean if I if you saw the real 1889 01:55:28,480 --> 01:55:31,120 1 you would you would not be able to really tell. 1890 01:55:31,120 --> 01:55:32,040 Really. Huh. 1891 01:55:32,520 --> 01:55:40,960 Yeah, I have AI have a Eric Clapton Blackie replica and you 1892 01:55:40,960 --> 01:55:44,720 know, not the same as as this, not quite as crazy and 1893 01:55:44,720 --> 01:55:46,920 spectacular and wonderful as this one. 1894 01:55:47,240 --> 01:55:51,800 A little bit different, but but it's just a really cool Strat. 1895 01:55:51,800 --> 01:55:54,640 Like the story was basically that Blackie, I don't know if 1896 01:55:54,640 --> 01:55:57,160 you're familiar with Blackie, that Eric Clapton recorded all 1897 01:55:57,160 --> 01:56:00,480 of all of his hits, cocaine and all the big songs he recorded on 1898 01:56:00,480 --> 01:56:04,440 Blackie. And they sold it in an auction 1899 01:56:04,760 --> 01:56:11,120 in like 2005, I think, or 4 for $1,000,000 to Guitar Center. 1900 01:56:12,040 --> 01:56:16,000 And Guitar Center went to Fender and said we want you to make the 1901 01:56:16,000 --> 01:56:20,040 best reissue you've ever made. Like we want identical reissue. 1902 01:56:20,040 --> 01:56:23,960 Like we want this guitar. You can't a, a scientist 1903 01:56:23,960 --> 01:56:25,920 couldn't tell the difference between the real one and the 1904 01:56:25,920 --> 01:56:29,400 replica. And they made 230 of them, I 1905 01:56:29,400 --> 01:56:32,720 think. And I have one of those and I've 1906 01:56:32,880 --> 01:56:36,960 I've never actually played it because I'm afraid to basically. 1907 01:56:37,080 --> 01:56:38,840 You. You must be from Spinal Tap 1908 01:56:38,840 --> 01:56:41,120 then. Yeah, no, yeah, yeah. 1909 01:56:41,120 --> 01:56:44,120 No, don't even look at it. Look at it. 1910 01:56:44,520 --> 01:56:46,360 Yeah, no, it's kind of like that. 1911 01:56:46,360 --> 01:56:50,120 And I had a friend of mine from Calgary, guitar player his whole 1912 01:56:50,120 --> 01:56:51,680 life. He's, he's still playing 1913 01:56:51,680 --> 01:56:55,560 professionally today and he was visiting his brother very close 1914 01:56:55,560 --> 01:56:59,120 to my house and we got together and, and he said bring, bring 1915 01:56:59,120 --> 01:57:00,760 the blackie guitar over with you. 1916 01:57:00,760 --> 01:57:03,240 And I brought it and he kept it for the whole week and was just 1917 01:57:03,240 --> 01:57:06,880 playing on it and cleaning it up and really making it pretty and 1918 01:57:06,880 --> 01:57:09,160 all kinds of stuff. And he was like, man, I like 1919 01:57:09,160 --> 01:57:11,640 that guitar. And I'm like, hey, you know, it 1920 01:57:11,640 --> 01:57:14,040 could be arranged and it wasn't cheap. 1921 01:57:15,160 --> 01:57:17,760 Yeah, it wasn't cheap. I actually bought it. 1922 01:57:17,760 --> 01:57:21,640 I bought 2 of them because I had a good friend at Guitar Center 1923 01:57:21,640 --> 01:57:24,200 at the time and they were all sold but he was like hey if you 1924 01:57:24,200 --> 01:57:26,920 want I can get you in there but you got to tell me now. 1925 01:57:26,920 --> 01:57:29,960 And I said OK I'll take two and he goes 2 I can only get you one 1926 01:57:29,960 --> 01:57:33,280 And I said I need 2. And so my whole plan was I'll 1927 01:57:33,280 --> 01:57:35,520 flip one right away, which I did. 1928 01:57:35,520 --> 01:57:40,280 I so they were $20,000 each and I flipped the first one for 1929 01:57:40,280 --> 01:57:45,520 30,000 almost instantly. And and then 2008 happened and 1930 01:57:45,520 --> 01:57:49,800 the whole like expensive guitar thing just crashed to the ground 1931 01:57:49,800 --> 01:57:52,480 quickly. And so I still have it. 1932 01:57:52,480 --> 01:57:54,760 I haven't been in a rush to sell it or anything. 1933 01:57:54,760 --> 01:57:58,600 So it's just cool to have, you know, it's something cool to 1934 01:57:58,600 --> 01:58:01,360 have, I guess. Although every time I want to 1935 01:58:01,360 --> 01:58:04,640 buy something else, I go, I should just sell the blackie and 1936 01:58:04,640 --> 01:58:09,680 buy that instead or whatever. But yeah, well, I'll tell you 1937 01:58:09,680 --> 01:58:11,760 what, Bob, that was freaking interesting as hell. 1938 01:58:11,760 --> 01:58:16,000 I I got an education in in lots and lots of things related to 1939 01:58:16,000 --> 01:58:17,920 sound and you have quite a story. 1940 01:58:17,920 --> 01:58:20,840 I had no idea. It's fantastic. 1941 01:58:21,040 --> 01:58:23,160 Really, really cool. So I appreciate you doing this. 1942 01:58:23,440 --> 01:58:25,520 Well, thanks for having me. It's really a pleasure. 1943 01:58:25,600 --> 01:58:28,240 One last question, how can people like, if people want to 1944 01:58:28,240 --> 01:58:31,080 buy your book or reach out to you somehow, what's the best way 1945 01:58:31,080 --> 01:58:34,160 to reach you? Well, the book is. 1946 01:58:35,120 --> 01:58:36,880 It's published by Taylor and Francis. 1947 01:58:36,920 --> 01:58:40,320 You can buy it directly from them or it's up there on 1948 01:58:40,320 --> 01:58:43,440 Amazon.com. And it's called what? 1949 01:58:43,760 --> 01:58:47,040 Sound systems design and optimization. 1950 01:58:47,280 --> 01:58:49,120 OK, perfect. Yeah. 1951 01:58:51,160 --> 01:58:53,680 And then to reach you just LinkedIn or something? 1952 01:58:55,360 --> 01:58:58,640 LinkedIn. I I, yeah, yeah, I guess. 1953 01:58:58,640 --> 01:59:01,400 I'm on LinkedIn. I'm listed as Shipbuilder in 1954 01:59:01,400 --> 01:59:03,400 LinkedIn. Shipbuilder. 1955 01:59:04,440 --> 01:59:07,600 That's not my, my name is Bob McCarthy, but yeah, what my 1956 01:59:07,600 --> 01:59:10,680 profession is. And I I, I, you know, if you 1957 01:59:10,680 --> 01:59:13,400 look deep enough, you'll find that my profession is 1958 01:59:13,400 --> 01:59:16,800 shipbuilding. What's that story? 1959 01:59:16,800 --> 01:59:19,360 Now you got to tell me just because it's like there was 1960 01:59:19,360 --> 01:59:22,920 nothing that there was no category that was, that was 1961 01:59:22,920 --> 01:59:24,640 correct. So I was like Pine then 1962 01:59:24,640 --> 01:59:25,960 shipbuilding. That's. 1963 01:59:25,960 --> 01:59:31,800 Hilarious, and so far one person has noticed in all the years. 1964 01:59:32,640 --> 01:59:35,280 It doesn't surprise me, you know, having spent the last 1965 01:59:35,280 --> 01:59:37,960 almost two hours talking with you, it doesn't surprise me that 1966 01:59:37,960 --> 01:59:40,200 you're called shipbuilder. Cool. 1967 01:59:40,360 --> 01:59:44,280 Well, I appreciate you man. And, and maybe I'll run into you 1968 01:59:44,280 --> 01:59:46,200 on one of these Metallica shows or something. 1969 01:59:46,200 --> 01:59:50,000 I, I, I really like Dan Brown and, and Rob as well. 1970 01:59:50,000 --> 01:59:51,400 So it's nice to go out and see them. 1971 01:59:52,120 --> 01:59:54,240 Cool. Well, have an amazing rest of 1972 01:59:54,240 --> 01:59:55,600 your week. OK. 1973 01:59:55,640 --> 01:59:57,080 Thanks a million. Thank you. 1974 02:00:02,960 --> 02:00:03,080 None.