1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,200 So CIA has to simic, have to guide a conversation within 2 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,000 their respective entities about. Here's what we can do. 3 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:08,900 Here's how we can do it. Here all these different lines 4 00:00:08,900 --> 00:00:12,400 of effort you've test out to us you know to make a compelling 5 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:14,700 case, this is just fundamentally unreasonable. 6 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:16,900 This can't be done with the resources at hand. 7 00:00:16,900 --> 00:00:19,800 The Personnel at hand and it doesn't need to prioritize. 8 00:00:20,100 --> 00:00:23,700 And that's part of the case made in the paper is that if CA 9 00:00:23,700 --> 00:00:27,800 inseminate can do one or two things really, really, well you 10 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:30,900 can make an Evidence base case for more More people, more 11 00:00:30,900 --> 00:00:34,500 equipment, more resources, with Tesla government's Knowledge 12 00:00:34,500 --> 00:00:36,800 Management Solutions. You are adding a strategic 13 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:39,500 partner that helps unleash the full power and potential of your 14 00:00:39,500 --> 00:00:43,100 institutional information. Let us unpack your data and put 15 00:00:43,100 --> 00:00:46,900 your knowledge to work, learn more at Tesla gov.com. 16 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,300 Elsie 38, brand.com the Civil Affairs Lifestyle. 17 00:00:52,300 --> 00:00:56,100 Brand a little bit of something for everybody t, shirts, polos 18 00:00:56,100 --> 00:00:59,900 shorts, hats Flags, posters for your walls and stickers for 19 00:00:59,900 --> 00:01:03,300 everything else items for citizen soldiers of use of kapok 20 00:01:03,300 --> 00:01:07,600 and Warrior diplomats at Fort, Bragg alike, Elsie 38 brand.com, 21 00:01:07,700 --> 00:01:21,100 it's cool to like, your job. Welcome to the one. 22 00:01:21,100 --> 00:01:23,500 See a podcast. I'm John Miguel get your host 23 00:01:23,500 --> 00:01:26,900 for today's episode in. This is part two of a two-part 24 00:01:26,900 --> 00:01:29,500 discussion with Lieutenant Colonel stuff on me. 25 00:01:29,500 --> 00:01:32,900 Lick and dr. Nick Kroll e, we continue our 26 00:01:32,908 --> 00:01:36,700 discussion and comparison of Doctrine between US military. 27 00:01:36,700 --> 00:01:40,600 Civil Affairs forces, and NATO simic enjoy the show. 28 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:50,700 I want to ask Nick next within Army and Marine Corps, the, the 29 00:01:50,700 --> 00:01:52,400 u.s. Civil Affairs forces. 30 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:54,900 And then turn a turn, a colonel me, talk about simic. 31 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:59,100 What are we asking? The forces to do, for example, I 32 00:01:59,100 --> 00:02:02,500 know, within Army's civil Affairs, we have multiple CA 33 00:02:02,500 --> 00:02:04,800 missions then. We have core competencies. 34 00:02:05,100 --> 00:02:09,100 Those missions include civil Recon like your background civil 35 00:02:09,100 --> 00:02:12,800 engagement, which we do a lot of civil Network development, a new 36 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:16,200 term civil information. We have to really Analyze that 37 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:19,400 information transitional military Authority. 38 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:21,700 That's really gone to transitional military 39 00:02:21,700 --> 00:02:25,600 governance. So what's the scope of what US 40 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:30,000 military is telling CA forces that they have to do and of 41 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:31,600 those? Which ones do you think are the 42 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:34,200 most important as an outsider looking in here? 43 00:02:34,700 --> 00:02:38,900 I think you just listed five or six full-time jobs for specially 44 00:02:38,900 --> 00:02:41,700 trained individuals when you think about, you know, 45 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:45,500 governance or network development for reconnaissance. 46 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:49,600 Since or information management, these are all pretty high-end 47 00:02:49,900 --> 00:02:52,400 technical skills for experienced professionals. 48 00:02:53,100 --> 00:02:56,200 And we're asking the same group of folks to do it with very 49 00:02:56,200 --> 00:03:00,000 limited training. We had a, I think it was a ccoet 50 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:04,100 hosted webcast or podcast recently where there was a lose 51 00:03:04,100 --> 00:03:07,800 an Italian major talking about some occurs as the the eager 52 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:10,100 amateurs, right? Because they go out there and 53 00:03:10,100 --> 00:03:13,300 they give it their shot and they work hard and because of again 54 00:03:13,300 --> 00:03:15,400 just raw talent and perseverance there. 55 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:18,300 Good results that but none of it is systemic. 56 00:03:18,300 --> 00:03:21,400 None of its reliable. It's all kind of ad hoc and made 57 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:24,500 up on the Fly. And it goes back to what I think 58 00:03:24,500 --> 00:03:28,800 is that there's just way too much on the menu and it isn't 59 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:31,800 clear to me. If the Army went to see a and 60 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:35,400 said, hey we need you to do these seven things or six things 61 00:03:35,900 --> 00:03:38,400 or if it was the other way, where ca stepped up and said. 62 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:41,800 All right, how do we Define a value proposition of the army? 63 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:45,100 Now, let's start thinking the stuff, let's start defining 64 00:03:45,100 --> 00:03:47,200 things. That seemed important in the 65 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:51,000 Civil environment and that whole list is important, but I don't 66 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,600 see any possible way to reconcile that with the 67 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:57,000 resources that CA possesses it. How are you going to do all 68 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:00,300 that? And to me again, it's flatly. 69 00:04:00,300 --> 00:04:03,100 It's not going to happen and trying to do too much with too 70 00:04:03,100 --> 00:04:06,200 little, you know, being that jack of all trades. 71 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:10,000 Master of none is a recipe for failure. 72 00:04:10,100 --> 00:04:13,700 Frankly under performance under delivery marginalization, you 73 00:04:13,700 --> 00:04:18,700 know, I think there has to be Real discussion between CA and 74 00:04:18,700 --> 00:04:21,899 its customers saying, what do you really want from us? 75 00:04:22,500 --> 00:04:26,100 And CA has to shape that discussion because I think a lot 76 00:04:26,100 --> 00:04:30,700 of the army, a lot of NATO has never really thought about what 77 00:04:30,700 --> 00:04:34,000 they want from CA or simic. That's not something that keeps 78 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:35,900 them up, right? They got other problems are 79 00:04:35,900 --> 00:04:39,300 focused elsewhere. So CA has consuming have to 80 00:04:39,300 --> 00:04:42,400 guide a conversation within their respective entities about, 81 00:04:42,700 --> 00:04:45,600 here's what we can do. Here's how we can do it here all 82 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:47,100 this. Different lines of effort you've 83 00:04:47,100 --> 00:04:50,400 test out to us you know to make a compelling case. 84 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:52,200 This is just fundamentally unreasonable. 85 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:54,700 This can't be done with the resources at hand. 86 00:04:54,700 --> 00:04:59,000 The Personnel at hand in this need to prioritize and that's 87 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:03,000 part of the case made in the paper is that CA inseminate can 88 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:06,800 do one or two things really? Really, well, you can make an 89 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:10,100 Evidence base case for more people, more equipment, more 90 00:05:10,100 --> 00:05:12,800 resources. Hey we've done civil 91 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:15,100 reconnaissance really well for a while now. 92 00:05:15,700 --> 00:05:19,100 You know, if you provide resourcing, we can also start 93 00:05:19,100 --> 00:05:23,200 doing something else. You'll personally to me, again, 94 00:05:23,500 --> 00:05:27,300 I'm, I guess biased, and so far as I've spent pretty much my 95 00:05:27,300 --> 00:05:31,000 entire career doing this, but the development of understanding 96 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:35,800 I think is Paramount here. If we don't understand 90% of an 97 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:39,500 operational environment. How are we going to do effective 98 00:05:39,500 --> 00:05:42,900 civil Network development? How are we to conduct effective? 99 00:05:42,900 --> 00:05:46,900 You know, key leader engagement. How Going to provide government. 100 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:51,000 That the governance thing to me is questionable and this comes 101 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:53,400 up really well. I think in an 80 environment 102 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:57,200 where, you know, what is the demand signal for CA forces to 103 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:00,500 provide governs anywhere, you know, are the poles. 104 00:06:00,500 --> 00:06:03,100 What is the process of the ukrainians right now, in the 105 00:06:03,100 --> 00:06:06,100 midst of what they're in the midst of asking, u.s. civil 106 00:06:06,100 --> 00:06:08,200 Affairs to help govern parts of their country? 107 00:06:08,700 --> 00:06:11,300 I don't see that happen. I think it's zero. 108 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:14,400 You can look at a place like Syria you know, parts of the saw 109 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,000 hell maybe. Where you can get hands on and 110 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:19,900 be active there. But I think that falls way down 111 00:06:19,900 --> 00:06:22,800 the list. In terms of the real value that 112 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:28,800 CA and simic can provide day in day out irrespective of conflict 113 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,800 competition. Kinetic, non-kinetic, Etc. 114 00:06:32,300 --> 00:06:35,000 You know in Stefan can speak to this and I'm sure he will. 115 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,200 If we had some interesting conversations in this, in the 116 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:41,400 course of writing this paper about, you know, Cas attitude 117 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:45,100 towards a transitional governance and the very delicate 118 00:06:45,700 --> 00:06:50,100 He's within NATO, amongst European countries and is NATO, 119 00:06:50,100 --> 00:06:53,000 welcome in various Eastern European. 120 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:56,100 NATO member states, to engage with local government. 121 00:06:56,700 --> 00:07:00,100 Often the answer is no, the host government doesn't want NATO 122 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:03,300 meddling effectively and its own domestic business. 123 00:07:03,300 --> 00:07:06,600 That's a very delicate line that some workers have to walk. 124 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,300 What is the prospect of CA coming it and walking that more 125 00:07:10,300 --> 00:07:15,000 effectively or at all. So again to me the development 126 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:18,900 of Focused understanding of the playing field of that 127 00:07:18,900 --> 00:07:21,500 Marketplace. That van was talking about is 128 00:07:21,500 --> 00:07:24,900 the most valuable thing that see a estimate can do, all right? 129 00:07:24,900 --> 00:07:27,500 And I'll fight any on that. I don't think there's an 130 00:07:27,500 --> 00:07:31,500 argument against that, and I like the football metaphor in 131 00:07:31,500 --> 00:07:33,900 the marketplace and you can make it worse, right? 132 00:07:34,300 --> 00:07:38,500 You could be playing football in, you know, lugansk City and 133 00:07:38,500 --> 00:07:42,000 the goals are at either end of the city and civilians aren't 134 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,800 just getting in the way, you know, they're jumping in and 135 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:47,000 making a tackle. Or committing file. 136 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:49,000 So they're part of the action, they're not just watching. 137 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:52,200 Now they have agents, they're active in this and they're 138 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:55,600 active after the match ends its massively complex. 139 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,900 If you don't understand that, you don't have a prayer of doing 140 00:07:58,900 --> 00:08:01,600 any of the other stuff that's currently in Doctrine. 141 00:08:01,900 --> 00:08:04,600 Yeah. Well, looking at all those tasks 142 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:07,400 though, Nick, and maybe break this down by tactical 143 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:10,800 operational, strategic. Because my personal view is 144 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:14,200 that, and you I think you guys talked about this in the paper 145 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:18,200 civil Affairs is On really good job historically at the Tactical 146 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:20,100 level, that's where most of our forces. 147 00:08:20,100 --> 00:08:22,200 We've put a lot of resources into that. 148 00:08:22,300 --> 00:08:24,300 Not so good at operational strategic. 149 00:08:24,300 --> 00:08:26,500 But what do you think it should be? 150 00:08:26,700 --> 00:08:29,800 Whether you've talked to any potential customers, so-called, 151 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:32,799 or Brigade, combat teams Italians and so on that, we 152 00:08:32,799 --> 00:08:36,400 support at the Tactical level, is it really civil Recon, civil 153 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:39,200 engagement that we focus on and then the other stuff should 154 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:41,000 happen in a higher level. What's your view? 155 00:08:41,700 --> 00:08:45,500 I again I think assessment almost has to happen there. 156 00:08:45,700 --> 00:08:48,300 Recon stuff almost has to happen with tactical level, right? 157 00:08:48,300 --> 00:08:50,600 Because you need access you need to be out there talking to 158 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:53,400 people or you can think of it as the ocean, you know, if your 159 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:57,000 desk-bound somewhere you're not on the front lines you can still 160 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:00,400 do some reconnaissance, you can still conduct assessments like 161 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:04,400 the Pocky part of the problem with the lack of success 162 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:06,900 trickling upward, if you will or you like the good things that 163 00:09:06,900 --> 00:09:10,600 happen tactically, don't scale upward because they always 164 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:13,200 happen in different ways. It goes back to the lack of 165 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:17,500 standardization, you know, there isn't Beat a dead horse here, 166 00:09:17,500 --> 00:09:22,100 maybe, but if they were a single concise actionable product that 167 00:09:22,100 --> 00:09:24,900 every civil Affairs team was producing at the Tactical level, 168 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:28,700 consistently being churned out, and being pumped into the system 169 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:32,600 and filtering upwards, that's going to create that chain of 170 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:34,800 events, that we need. That's how that happens. 171 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:37,900 And yeah, there are other things that CA can do at a very high 172 00:09:37,900 --> 00:09:39,900 level, you know, one of the things that came out in this 173 00:09:39,900 --> 00:09:42,800 Doctrine comparison, is that, you know, you and I John talked 174 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:45,300 about the Tactical level and we think of a company Commander at 175 00:09:45,300 --> 00:09:49,900 a About Outpost somewhere and Stefan and his team pointed out 176 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:54,000 in a pretty interesting way. The Tactical level for NATO is 177 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:57,500 the three-star headquarters. So in a way we're comparing 178 00:09:57,500 --> 00:09:59,400 apples and oranges here. Yeah. 179 00:10:00,300 --> 00:10:05,400 But still like someone somewhere has to figure out what the hell 180 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:08,500 is going on in an operational environment, and there are a 181 00:10:08,508 --> 00:10:12,200 million different ways to get that accidents, but someone has 182 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:15,100 to have a robust process to figure out what's going on. 183 00:10:16,100 --> 00:10:18,100 And we don't have that. We have a scope for me. 184 00:10:18,100 --> 00:10:21,000 See, and we can get into that later if you want, but we don't 185 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:24,200 have an investigator framework for the Civil environment in any 186 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:27,800 meaningful sense, the term and then that process whatever it 187 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:32,000 is, is not leading to consistent, reliable quality 188 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:35,600 outputs for, which CA or some occurs are accountable to 189 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:41,600 produce time after time that I think is key to scaling Insight 190 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,600 upward from the Tactical level and delivering quality. 191 00:10:45,100 --> 00:10:46,600 Yeah. Thank you, Carl me. 192 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:52,000 Like, you guys have a JP 3.19. What are the tasks that NATO 193 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,700 simic? That NATO is telling Atomic 194 00:10:54,700 --> 00:10:56,900 forces that they have to be prepared to do. 195 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:00,900 And can you tell us a little more detail about what Nick just 196 00:11:00,900 --> 00:11:04,300 mentioned, which is our levels at the Tactical level are very 197 00:11:04,300 --> 00:11:07,300 different and then maybe a third question to that. 198 00:11:07,300 --> 00:11:11,500 If we can cover it is, what do you think your personal view of 199 00:11:11,500 --> 00:11:14,100 one of the most important tasks that they are systemic needs to 200 00:11:14,100 --> 00:11:15,400 be able to do? Yeah. 201 00:11:16,100 --> 00:11:20,200 It would probably go all in one and not really in separate 202 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:23,900 answers. So currently nato simic in the 203 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:29,900 valid ajp 319 has three core functions which is support to 204 00:11:29,900 --> 00:11:33,400 the force support to the military. 205 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:38,200 Actors, non-military actors and civil environment and the third 206 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:42,800 one is civil-military relations, my team and I and I would say 207 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:45,300 the team is much bigger than only. 208 00:11:45,500 --> 00:11:49,800 My subordinates within the same extent of Excellence, we have a 209 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:54,700 writing team consisting of Representatives of Nations and 210 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:59,400 NATO command structure. So, from multiple headquarters 211 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:02,900 from higher tactical, operational and strategic level. 212 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:06,900 We are convinced that these three core functions are also 213 00:12:06,900 --> 00:12:09,800 part of the problem. Because they say everything and 214 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:13,900 nothing to say support to the force that is, yeah. 215 00:12:13,900 --> 00:12:18,000 It's like like I said what are repeated is everything and 216 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:22,800 nothing and on one end, you put yourself next to the force. 217 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,100 When you say, my core task is support to the for. 218 00:12:25,100 --> 00:12:29,100 So I'm not a, not a, an integral part of the force. 219 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:34,300 I put myself in between the force and the Civil world and I 220 00:12:34,300 --> 00:12:39,900 make my myself and outside of from the beginning Pearl 221 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:45,300 definition and / or doctrine. So Shifting the mindset and 222 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:50,700 focusing on the real relevant contribution added value. 223 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:56,300 That we can deliver is understanding the Civil 224 00:12:56,300 --> 00:13:00,400 environment. That means integrating, the 225 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:06,200 Civil factors of the operating environment into operational 226 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:11,000 planning into decision-making, processes into battle resume 227 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:17,000 events on all levels and that has to happen as Nick said 228 00:13:17,100 --> 00:13:20,900 earlier that has to happen in a standardized process. 229 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:25,400 If everybody does that in a way thinks it is done, right? 230 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:28,500 You might be lucky and have a good product if you have smart 231 00:13:28,500 --> 00:13:34,900 people working but you might also have the wrong product and 232 00:13:35,100 --> 00:13:39,000 less relevant product. If people understand the task or 233 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:42,500 interpret that as differently and do not clearly understand 234 00:13:42,500 --> 00:13:46,300 how this product grows. Bottom-up. 235 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:53,400 And yeah, reaches riches value, especially at headquarters that 236 00:13:53,400 --> 00:14:00,100 don't have own sensors own elements on the ground and yeah, 237 00:14:00,500 --> 00:14:04,400 collecting information and collecting Impressions. 238 00:14:04,900 --> 00:14:10,800 So only with highly qualified people and with a standardized 239 00:14:11,100 --> 00:14:16,200 process, you can create high standard product that Relevant. 240 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:22,000 And that's the assessment of the Civil environment throughout all 241 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:28,300 phases of any activity, operation Mission or War, 242 00:14:28,300 --> 00:14:33,900 however, you want, you want to call that, but we always have to 243 00:14:33,900 --> 00:14:38,400 have situational awareness. And even more a situational 244 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:43,200 understanding also of the Civil environment, that's that is the 245 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:47,500 unique selling point that Is the added value and contribution 246 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:53,900 that simek adds to this whole business, and we do that one 247 00:14:53,900 --> 00:14:57,900 instrument to do that is in a so-called civil military 248 00:14:57,900 --> 00:15:02,500 interaction. We enable facilitate and conduct 249 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:07,500 civil-military interaction. So, with our contacts, to civil 250 00:15:07,500 --> 00:15:13,000 organizations to representatives of the population non-military 251 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:19,600 actors we The information that is required to fill the bucket 252 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:23,700 that is needed, to be seen in order to make a proper 253 00:15:23,700 --> 00:15:27,700 assessment of that. And for that to transfer that 254 00:15:27,900 --> 00:15:32,200 data into relevant information. And that into relevant input in 255 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:36,000 the decision-making, processes we need qualified analysts. 256 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:42,600 So this is well, we drive the doctrinal development of NATO 257 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:46,600 into and it looks good as we seem to To achieve a common 258 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:50,500 understanding in our community about that in about the 259 00:15:50,500 --> 00:15:52,900 relevance. You can see that in the new 260 00:15:52,900 --> 00:15:58,100 definition of simic, which for the first time includes those 261 00:15:58,100 --> 00:16:02,500 expressions of integrating, the understanding of the several 262 00:16:02,500 --> 00:16:04,600 factors of the operating environment. 263 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:08,200 It's still not fully authorized by the day. 264 00:16:08,300 --> 00:16:15,300 By the way, I think today, the silence period for approving. 265 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:18,700 This new definition ends if nobody has broken silence. 266 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:22,700 We will have new simic definition in NATO from now on. 267 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:27,400 And now finally the levels you were talking and Nick had 268 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:30,600 already said earlier that, there is a huge difference. 269 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:34,400 If you talk about those strategic operational tactical 270 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:40,400 level in NATO or at the national level and for NATO the 271 00:16:40,500 --> 00:16:43,300 operational level is the joint level. 272 00:16:43,700 --> 00:16:49,100 So we're You combine the different domains and the 273 00:16:49,100 --> 00:16:53,600 different services, and that's Force our headquarters with an 274 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:59,300 area of responsibility far beyond National or one nation's 275 00:16:59,300 --> 00:17:03,000 borders. So including yeah, the northern 276 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:06,400 part of Europe, north eastern, part of Europe and eastern part 277 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:10,900 of Europe, or Southeastern and southern part of the 278 00:17:10,900 --> 00:17:16,200 euro-atlantic area. So this is the levels that That 279 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:21,800 are applicable when you think in NATO terms and here we think 280 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:27,500 it's also here comes NATO simic into place because below that 281 00:17:27,500 --> 00:17:33,400 whatever happens within the border of a country is mainly a 282 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:40,800 nationally driven thing and most probably at least a bi-national 283 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:45,300 interoperability and cooperation between that host nation. 284 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:52,100 And deploy their lies in. I would say the vast majority of 285 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:55,900 countries. It would be deployed US forces 286 00:17:55,900 --> 00:18:01,600 that have to be inter operable with the domestic forces and 287 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:07,100 have to integrate and support and work together and be 288 00:18:07,100 --> 00:18:10,700 successful together. And these are the challenges. 289 00:18:10,700 --> 00:18:14,400 So what I wanted to state is NATO simic has to take a 290 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:17,500 perspective. Above the national level. 291 00:18:17,900 --> 00:18:23,600 It has to to understand the Civil environment in several 292 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:28,900 countries in regions above the geographic, borders of 293 00:18:28,900 --> 00:18:31,600 individual countries. And that's a huge Challenge and 294 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:36,000 you need you need huge capacities for that when it 295 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:41,400 comes and capabilities when it comes to handling big data when 296 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:45,400 it comes to transferring those data into it. 297 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:49,600 Nation and working with that information, transfer 298 00:18:49,900 --> 00:18:54,800 transferring it into a two products that contribute to a 299 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:57,800 proper decision making processes. 300 00:18:57,900 --> 00:19:02,700 And this is where we're going. And I hope I didn't forget any 301 00:19:02,700 --> 00:19:05,000 of the points. You were asking sure you cover 302 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:05,800 great deal. Not. 303 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:09,700 That's really, really helpful. We'll be right back after a word 304 00:19:09,700 --> 00:19:14,300 from our sponsor. Everywhere. 305 00:19:14,300 --> 00:19:16,900 You look, there's a barrage of emails and information. 306 00:19:16,900 --> 00:19:20,400 Telling you what everybody has done is doing or plans to do all 307 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:24,100 in excruciating detail, but access is only half the battle. 308 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:27,300 You also need information presented in a usable form, that 309 00:19:27,300 --> 00:19:29,700 takes work, and the more information you have, the more 310 00:19:29,700 --> 00:19:31,900 work. It takes Tesla government takes 311 00:19:31,900 --> 00:19:34,200 on these issues. So that your office or agency 312 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:37,400 can fully exploit, the data you already have our knowledge 313 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:41,500 management experts organize and curate your internal data, our 314 00:19:41,500 --> 00:19:44,700 open source research augments you're not Faced with strategic 315 00:19:44,700 --> 00:19:47,800 insights from our globally, experienced team and our data 316 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:51,500 visualization, turns complex data into compelling visuals. 317 00:19:51,700 --> 00:19:54,600 While our community building makes sure everyone benefits by 318 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:58,000 leveraging Collective knowledge. The Tesla government's Knowledge 319 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,600 Management Solutions. You are adding a strategic 320 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,500 partner that helps unleash the full power and potential of your 321 00:20:03,500 --> 00:20:06,900 institutional information. Let us unpack your data and put 322 00:20:06,900 --> 00:20:10,600 your knowledge to work, learn more at Tesla gov.com. 323 00:20:12,900 --> 00:20:16,700 Elsie 38, brand.com the Civil Affairs Lifestyle brand 324 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:19,900 something for everyone. The world traveler, the Civil 325 00:20:19,900 --> 00:20:24,500 engager, the warrior Diplomat. We got t, shirts polos shorts, 326 00:20:24,500 --> 00:20:27,200 hats flags, and posters for your walls and stickers for 327 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:29,600 everything else. Celebrating the heritage of 328 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:31,900 civil affairs, from the Civil reconnaissance of Lewis and 329 00:20:31,900 --> 00:20:34,400 Clark Through The Monuments Men of World War Two and companies 330 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,500 of Vietnam, wrapping a present teams of the global war on 331 00:20:37,500 --> 00:20:40,700 terror with items for citizen soldiers of use of kapok and 332 00:20:40,700 --> 00:20:42,500 Warrior diplomats at Fort Bragg alike. 333 00:20:43,100 --> 00:20:45,500 Collections include suits and shoots for fans of jumping out 334 00:20:45,500 --> 00:20:47,400 of airplanes and looking good pile. 335 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,300 And to remember your trip to the People's Republic and Lewis and 336 00:20:50,300 --> 00:20:53,000 Clark to honor the two party animals, who popularized, huge 337 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:56,300 DTS vouchers. You want pie pox, we got pie pox 338 00:20:56,800 --> 00:21:01,000 new items, all the time, custom Flags stickers and shirts, send 339 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:03,400 us an email. Follow us on Facebook or 340 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:08,600 Instagram, at LC. 38 brand, or contact us at info at LC 38 341 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:13,400 brand.com, LC 38 brand.com. It's cool to like, Job. 342 00:21:24,100 --> 00:21:27,400 Welcome back to the show, we're discussing Doctrine and 343 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:31,700 comparing US, military civil Affairs forces, and NATO simic. 344 00:21:32,500 --> 00:21:36,700 It sounds from my perspective that both Cinema can see a 345 00:21:36,708 --> 00:21:40,800 forces need to do some more market analysis to find out, as 346 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,300 Nick, put it. The customers what they need. 347 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,000 Yes, we're in military structure. 348 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,700 We have to do certain things that higher echelons tell us, do 349 00:21:48,700 --> 00:21:51,300 we need to prepare for, but we've talked a lot about 350 00:21:51,300 --> 00:21:55,900 intelligence as As comparison intelligence of 40 years ago, is 351 00:21:55,900 --> 00:21:58,600 not the intelligence of today intelligence of 20 years ago. 352 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,900 If 10 years ago, is not the intelligence apparatus of today, 353 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,700 it continues to evolve and continues to churn out different 354 00:22:05,700 --> 00:22:09,800 products and greater analysis. And I guess that gets me to what 355 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:13,300 I want to finish with a Section 3 in your paper, the way ahead, 356 00:22:13,300 --> 00:22:17,400 the what now you break this down, gentleman into number one, 357 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,700 greater value, proposition centering that value, 358 00:22:20,700 --> 00:22:25,500 proposition number to develop. Ink signature products and three 359 00:22:25,700 --> 00:22:29,400 adopting a fit for purpose. Investigative analytical 360 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,500 methodologies, Nick first to you and then Chrome, you look, if 361 00:22:32,500 --> 00:22:36,600 you could wrap it up, Nikki talked about a scope, how that 362 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:39,800 fill in the block tool is not sufficient. 363 00:22:39,900 --> 00:22:43,100 So what are those signature products that you think could be 364 00:22:43,100 --> 00:22:46,100 helpful and how do we censor that value proposition? 365 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:50,000 Yeah, so if you mean, you just talked about sort of the 366 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,800 intelligence and how intelligent Have been evolving. 367 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:56,100 And we can talk this sort of idea of intelligence 368 00:22:56,100 --> 00:23:01,500 architecture and of CA and civil assessment and simic, not really 369 00:23:01,500 --> 00:23:05,200 being a part of that. And the capabilities, I think, 370 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,900 right now we need to further evolution of where ca and 371 00:23:08,900 --> 00:23:11,500 stomach fit into all this, where civil reconnaissance civil 372 00:23:11,500 --> 00:23:16,200 assessment, you know, all things civil fit because right now 373 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:20,000 we're doing them separately, you know, off to the side where, you 374 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,000 know, J2 does. What it does over somewhere else 375 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:24,000 and see. Day and Seneca doing all the 376 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,100 Civil stuff and other place. And in theory, it all gets fused 377 00:23:27,100 --> 00:23:28,800 together somewhere down the line. 378 00:23:29,100 --> 00:23:30,900 If that doesn't work fundamentally. 379 00:23:30,900 --> 00:23:34,400 Like that's one of the big issues that I think CA and simic 380 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:39,300 has to take on quite vocally at a leadership level because, you 381 00:23:39,300 --> 00:23:42,600 know, CA can get better, send it can get better, they can produce 382 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,600 better products, we adopted her methods, but if we're not 383 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:49,100 integrated into, you know, the the broader view of an 384 00:23:49,100 --> 00:23:52,200 operational environment, you're always going to be marginalized, 385 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:54,300 you're always gonna be Afterthought and you're not 386 00:23:54,300 --> 00:23:57,100 necessarily going to know where and how to look at the Civil 387 00:23:57,100 --> 00:24:00,000 environment because suddenly there's too much there to look 388 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,900 at like this is one of the problems with a scope amazing. 389 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:06,100 You know you want to do an ace copa me see grid for 390 00:24:06,300 --> 00:24:09,400 Northeastern Europe. I don't even see the point of 391 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,400 trying that. How are you possibly going to 392 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,300 convey anything meaningful. And something that broad or at a 393 00:24:14,300 --> 00:24:17,300 country level, or even at a village level, or a neighborhood 394 00:24:17,300 --> 00:24:19,200 level? There's so much clutter in that 395 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:20,900 up. There's so much there that has 396 00:24:20,900 --> 00:24:23,700 no obvious value. No obvious purpose, Is that it 397 00:24:23,700 --> 00:24:26,800 just does work. And so, you know, one of the key 398 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:30,200 things that we've looked at, and we suggest in the paper is this 399 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:34,000 need to integrate, you know, contextual investigation civil 400 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:35,900 reconnaissance. All things civil, as we 401 00:24:35,900 --> 00:24:39,800 investigate them into that. Jay to view now, into our 402 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:44,000 intelligence intelligence architecture and that happens 403 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:46,600 methodologically, right? But fundamentally, it happens 404 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:48,200 because there's a product, you have to produce. 405 00:24:48,700 --> 00:24:52,300 And the product we put forward, is this idea of the route map. 406 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:57,300 That The way to build a bridge between j2's view of the enemy 407 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,700 and all the other stuff happening in an operational 408 00:25:00,700 --> 00:25:03,300 environment because you have to start somewhere, you have to 409 00:25:03,300 --> 00:25:04,800 have a frame of reference. You have to have an 410 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:09,100 investigative framework, is to look at the roots of that 411 00:25:09,100 --> 00:25:11,100 adversary your enemy that's brought us there. 412 00:25:11,100 --> 00:25:14,600 So, you know, the roots of Russian influence in Eastern 413 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,100 Europe. You know, the roots of Chinese 414 00:25:17,100 --> 00:25:19,300 influence and operations across Africa. 415 00:25:19,500 --> 00:25:23,800 The roots of the Islamic State in the Sahel At that Bridges, 416 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:27,200 the gap or connecting our view of the enemy or adversary 417 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:28,900 competitor. Whatever you want to talk about 418 00:25:28,900 --> 00:25:31,800 their doesn't matter if we're kinetic non-kinetic, you know, 419 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:35,300 whatever phase of of conflict or in the works across the 420 00:25:35,300 --> 00:25:38,600 competition continue. You know, we follow those roots 421 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:42,000 out and civil environment and figure out, you know, how have 422 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,900 they grown, why? If they groan where they grow or 423 00:25:44,900 --> 00:25:47,900 have they not grown, right? We have a structured framework 424 00:25:48,300 --> 00:25:52,100 Time After Time After Time through which civil Affairs and 425 00:25:52,100 --> 00:25:54,700 simic. Can produce a product with 426 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:59,000 unquestionable value, you know? Find me the hardest Edge. 427 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,000 Infantry officer. Who's going to tell you that the 428 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,500 roots of the enemy don't matter. All right, they definitely 429 00:26:05,500 --> 00:26:09,500 matter your, that's an easy case for CA and stomach to make, you 430 00:26:09,500 --> 00:26:13,200 know, the people we take on the battlefield or a par, they're an 431 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,500 integral feature of an operational environment. 432 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:19,000 You know, you have to view them as such, you know, way to look 433 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,200 at all this whereby your contextualizing, a view of an 434 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,500 enemy or We're centered. This is enormous value could see 435 00:26:25,500 --> 00:26:29,600 a and send that can provide and that is that that product, that 436 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:33,900 one obvious, easy key, you know, cheap and cheerful. 437 00:26:33,900 --> 00:26:36,200 When you can come up with saying, all right, we're going 438 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:40,200 to produce this, you know, and everyone's going to get one of 439 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:41,300 these products. Whatever. 440 00:26:41,300 --> 00:26:43,600 A, oh we're in. There's an adversary there. 441 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:45,500 There's a competitor there or else. 442 00:26:45,500 --> 00:26:47,800 Why are we there, right? What are their roots in the 443 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,400 operational environment? Where are they? 444 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:54,100 How they grow? We map that As a standardized 445 00:26:54,100 --> 00:26:57,200 deliverable that everyone produces every single deployment 446 00:26:57,500 --> 00:27:00,100 that you can produce from the rear, frankly you can produce it 447 00:27:00,100 --> 00:27:03,800 a tactical, very granular level. You can produce it at a higher 448 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:07,400 operational, strategic level. Okay, depending on your frame of 449 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:08,800 reference and how deep you're digging. 450 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:13,000 All right, they're readily scalable, they can be fused 451 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,000 together, you can take a whole bunch of different tactical 452 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,600 views and synthesize that at a higher level, really easy stuff 453 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,700 to do. And then once you've developed 454 00:27:20,700 --> 00:27:22,400 that route map, what do you have? 455 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:24,500 All right. Have a framework for onward 456 00:27:24,500 --> 00:27:27,200 civil reconnaissance. Let's really dig into some 457 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,900 particular aspect of the roots of Russian influence in Libya, 458 00:27:30,900 --> 00:27:33,100 right? We have our hook in those roots. 459 00:27:33,100 --> 00:27:35,800 Now we know what to follow. We know where to dig, if you 460 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,800 will and that's something that's developed a bit in the paper 461 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:43,400 that, you know, we think is something readily doable 462 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:48,900 compelling across the force. That gives your doesn't give it 463 00:27:48,900 --> 00:27:51,300 its a way out. I guess about why are you here 464 00:27:51,300 --> 00:27:54,100 and what do you do for me? Ation that CA and simic 465 00:27:54,100 --> 00:27:57,300 elements, keep having to have people expect this product, 466 00:27:57,500 --> 00:27:59,800 they'll want it now. Have obvious value for it. 467 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:01,800 So that's what that's the key thing. 468 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:04,200 We want that. I'd like to put forward here. 469 00:28:04,700 --> 00:28:07,200 Nick. Thank you so much, girl music. 470 00:28:07,300 --> 00:28:08,800 What's your take on the way ahead? 471 00:28:09,100 --> 00:28:12,600 And given your position as branch chief, they're focusing 472 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:17,500 in part on interoperability. How CA and simic forces could 473 00:28:17,500 --> 00:28:21,700 become more interoperable with something like a route map or 474 00:28:21,700 --> 00:28:24,900 some other tool or Or rather some other product that you have 475 00:28:24,900 --> 00:28:27,800 in mind for civic forces. Yeah, thank you. 476 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:33,300 And let me, let me just pick up exactly where Nick ended with 477 00:28:33,300 --> 00:28:40,100 his words and say one thing is the route map to go deeper into 478 00:28:40,100 --> 00:28:44,800 the roots of our opponents. The other thing that is really 479 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:50,700 relevant is that we we understand those civil factors 480 00:28:50,700 --> 00:28:56,700 that are neutral or Or potentially friendly or friendly 481 00:28:56,700 --> 00:29:02,500 and supportive to us so that we also understand our own 482 00:29:02,500 --> 00:29:08,000 population when we are under attack or under threat of an 483 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:12,400 attack. Well, do we have vulnerabilities 484 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:18,600 weak points that we need to defend and protect with 485 00:29:18,700 --> 00:29:24,100 preventive actions or somehow? Covering actions. 486 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:31,900 So it is not super easy to say J to intelligence Community will 487 00:29:31,900 --> 00:29:37,400 focus on the adversary and say, make will focus on the neutral 488 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:43,300 and friendly because those interconnections are super deep 489 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:49,100 and absolutely complex. So it is important that we break 490 00:29:49,100 --> 00:29:52,700 up those stovepipes and really work together. 491 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:59,600 Gether and all with all our capabilities, contribute to all 492 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,400 the Fulfillment and execution of all joint functions. 493 00:30:04,700 --> 00:30:09,100 So, this is something where I say, yeah, break up the stove by 494 00:30:09,100 --> 00:30:16,100 being and be well, that the world is not binary, but super 495 00:30:16,100 --> 00:30:19,100 complex. And the more complex our 496 00:30:19,100 --> 00:30:23,500 operating environment gets with trance trance Border 497 00:30:23,900 --> 00:30:29,500 interdependencies, we will have a much harder job to properly 498 00:30:29,500 --> 00:30:35,600 analyze and assess and this is exactly what I'm what we're 499 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,800 trying to do. Also how can we increase 500 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:44,400 interoperability by better synchronize seeing our Doctrine 501 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:50,000 as a as the foundation for training and education before we 502 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:54,800 go on deployments. And then as The Next Step better 503 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:59,700 synchronize the training and education by teaching each 504 00:30:59,700 --> 00:31:04,300 other, about the specifics of. What does it mean? 505 00:31:04,300 --> 00:31:09,300 If I deploy to Central or Eastern Europe into a fully 506 00:31:09,300 --> 00:31:14,200 Sovereign Nation to support, fully functional Armed, Forces 507 00:31:14,500 --> 00:31:20,600 to defend their Homeland, having a population, which is the 508 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:25,400 obvious, 100% supportive, but Somehow targeted directly 509 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:29,600 targeted by the opponent with misinformation and 510 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:34,200 disinformation in order to weaken the the cohesion within 511 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:38,700 the society. So, and after those trainings 512 00:31:38,700 --> 00:31:41,900 and causes we need to, we need to conduct. 513 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,600 Yeah, combine exercises. We already do. 514 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:49,200 And then we will, we will reach the level of interoperability 515 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:52,600 that we need to successfully guarantee. 516 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:59,000 T ensure the freedom of our countries in the euro-atlantic 517 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:00,900 area. From you look, thank you so 518 00:32:00,900 --> 00:32:04,000 much. The one to The Parting words 519 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:09,000 that share would be the I think both CA and simic need a real 520 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,200 sense of urgency around their near-term. 521 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:15,500 Future, if you look at the trend of budget cuts and 522 00:32:15,700 --> 00:32:19,500 prioritization and you know where the US military in 523 00:32:19,500 --> 00:32:22,600 particular is headed, you know, I don't see a is in the room. 524 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,500 Your mirror but they're definitely not near the driver's 525 00:32:25,500 --> 00:32:29,000 seat and they could be looking at considerable Cuts in the 526 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,400 not-too-distant future. If they can't really articulate, 527 00:32:32,700 --> 00:32:34,400 why they're there, why they matter. 528 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:41,100 And in the interactions I have in the sea a community II, don't 529 00:32:41,100 --> 00:32:45,900 get a sense of urgency. I don't feel real concern about. 530 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,500 You know, hey you know, we're fighting for our life here. 531 00:32:48,500 --> 00:32:50,700 We really need to get this done right? 532 00:32:50,700 --> 00:32:55,400 Right now we need to take Hard. Look at who we are what we're 533 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,200 offering but I kind of get a more. 534 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,500 All right, you know, business as usual keep it up, you know, 535 00:33:01,500 --> 00:33:03,200 maybe through a few tweaks here and there. 536 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,700 And that worries? Yeah, I saw the human terrain 537 00:33:06,700 --> 00:33:11,400 system fall apart for a lot of reasons, some operational some 538 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:15,000 institutional but the operational stuff is visible for 539 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,400 a while. And people kept talking about 540 00:33:17,500 --> 00:33:19,000 and the performance wasn't there. 541 00:33:19,100 --> 00:33:22,300 And, you know, if you have enough, unhappy customers, you 542 00:33:22,300 --> 00:33:26,300 know, You go out of business eventually so I would just 543 00:33:26,300 --> 00:33:30,300 really push, you know, a sense of urgency, you know, shit about 544 00:33:30,300 --> 00:33:33,300 a call to arms if you will within see a about you know, 545 00:33:33,300 --> 00:33:34,800 where we going, what are we doing? 546 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,100 You know, take this paper, give it a look, agree with it, 547 00:33:38,100 --> 00:33:41,400 disagree with it, you know, but but have a conversation, you 548 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:43,700 know, let's, let's figure this out and figure out what we want 549 00:33:43,700 --> 00:33:46,300 here. Otherwise, I think, you know, 550 00:33:46,300 --> 00:33:48,500 the next three to five years could be pretty bleak. 551 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:52,000 Thank you. I see that from my view across 552 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,800 the pond That this interoperability the partnership 553 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,600 the relationships continue to evolve and improve. 554 00:33:57,700 --> 00:34:00,800 So I think we're heading in that direction but I really value 555 00:34:00,900 --> 00:34:04,100 what you do gentlemen have put together with this paper this 556 00:34:04,100 --> 00:34:07,300 analysis, you provide some cold hard, truths. 557 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:11,800 Some things that we need to face head-on and Doctrine matters. 558 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,100 So for everyone who doesn't think, I don't need to read that 559 00:34:14,100 --> 00:34:16,500 thing or somebody else can worry about it. 560 00:34:16,500 --> 00:34:19,300 You know, the senior NCO, the officers can tell me what to do. 561 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:23,000 It does really matter and if people have time to Look at 562 00:34:23,007 --> 00:34:26,900 this, I would say We'll add a link to the show notes here but 563 00:34:27,100 --> 00:34:31,000 it's only 31 Pages. This is the NATO simek and u.s. 564 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,000 civil Affairs, doctrinal review and comparative assessment just 565 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,000 came out in June of 2022 by Lieutenant Colonel, Stephon 566 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:41,800 music of NATO simic CCE and dr. Nick really genuine. 567 00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:43,900 Thanks so much for your time. Preciate you coming on the show. 568 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,900 Thanks Joe. Thank you for spending some time 569 00:34:46,900 --> 00:34:49,100 with us. Please subscribe, and come back 570 00:34:49,100 --> 00:34:53,699 for another installment of 1ca, until then be safe and secure 571 00:34:53,699 --> 00:34:59,300 the victory. In civil Affairs, your success 572 00:34:59,300 --> 00:35:02,000 depends on getting the right information to the right, people 573 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,400 at the right time. Whether it's foundational 574 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,300 information for a team about to head out on a mission or putting 575 00:35:07,300 --> 00:35:10,500 together a map or other data visualization to brief a general 576 00:35:10,500 --> 00:35:13,400 or an ambassador Tesla Government Solutions and staff 577 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,400 can help with Tesla government's Knowledge Management Solutions. 578 00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,300 You're adding a strategic partner that helps unleash the 579 00:35:19,300 --> 00:35:21,500 full power and potential of your information. 580 00:35:21,900 --> 00:35:24,400 Let us unpack your data and put your knowledge to work. 581 00:35:24,700 --> 00:35:31,500 Learn more at Tesla gov.com. Elsie 38, brand.com the Civil 582 00:35:31,500 --> 00:35:34,100 Affairs Lifestyle. Brand a little bit of something 583 00:35:34,100 --> 00:35:39,100 for everybody t, shirts, polos shorts, hats flags, and posters 584 00:35:39,100 --> 00:35:41,500 for your walls and stickers for everything else. 585 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,600 Celebrating the heritage of civil affairs, from the Civil 586 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,200 reconnaissance of Lewis and Clark Through The Monuments Men 587 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,200 of World War Two and companies of Vietnam representing the 588 00:35:50,207 --> 00:35:52,200 present teams of the global war on terror. 589 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,000 We have items for citizen soldiers of use of kapok and 590 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,800 Warrior diplomats at Fort, Bragg alike, Elsie. 591 00:35:58,300 --> 00:36:00,700 Brand.com. It's cool to like your job. 592 00:35:58,300 --> 00:36:00,700 Brand.com. It's cool to like your job.